Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 8 DECEMBER 1932

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Questions. [8 DECEMBER.] Questions. 2065

being paid out of the' unemployment relief fund. "2. Not within the meaning of repro­ ductive, as applied to loan moneys, but does the hon. member assert that the granting of some little assistance to the unemployed in distress during the Christmas period is not reproductive to the community? " SUGGESTED REDUCTION OF PENALTY FOR LAT!O PAYMENT OF CROWN RENTS. Mr. BRAND (Isis), for Mr. EDWARDS (~Yan.ango), asked the Secretary for Public Lands- " In view of the general and substan­ tial fall in interest rates and the reduc­ tion under the Local Authorities Bill of the maximum discount allowable by local authorities from 8 to 5 per cent., will he give favourable consideration to the reduction to a proportionate extent of the 10 per cent. penalty imposed for late payment of Crown rentals ?" The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS (Hon. P. Pease, Herbert) replied- " In order to protect Crown revenues and to discourage deliberate default in payment of rents, it" is essential that a penalty be imposed which is substantially higher than the bank rate of interest. The statqtory penalty of 10 per cent. per annum on overdue Crown rents has been in force for many yearq, but in practice each case is dealt with by the present Government on its merits, the penalties being either reduced to 5 per cent. or entirely remitted in deserving cases." THURSDAY, 8 DECEMBER, 1932. SUGGESTED REDUCTION OF PENALTY FOR OVER­ DUE pAYMENTS TO AGRICULTURAL BANK. Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. G. Pollock, Gregory) Mr. BRAND (Isis), for Mr. EDWARDS took the chair at 10.30 a.m. (cYa,nango), asked the Secretary for Agricul­ ture- " In view of the general and substan­ QUESTIONS. tial fall in interest rates and the reduc­ SOURCE OF PAYMENT FOR CHRISTMAS ASSIST· tion under the Local Authorities Bill of ANCE TO RELIEF WORKERS. the maximum discount allowable by local authorities from 8 to 5 per cent., will he Mr. MAXWELL (Toowo'ng) asked the give favourable consideration to the Secretary for Labour and Industry- reduction to a proportionate extent of " 1. As the unemployment relief fund, the penalty imposed in respect of over­ according to the latest available figures, due amounts payable to the Agricultural appears to be insolvent, and as this fund Bank?" is estimated to be insolvent at the end of the financial year, will the proposed The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE Christmas present for relief workers be (Hon. F. W. Bulcock, Barcoo) replied- paid out of the Loan Fund? '~ The hon. member refers to 'a reduc­ " 2. Is this one of the reproductive tion unde1· the Local Authorities Bill of purposes for which the special relief the maximum discount allowable by local loan, subscriptions t.o w~~ch closed on authorities from 8 to 5 per cent.,' but Monday last, was raised? presumably he means the maximum rate of interest chargeable by way of penalty The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND in respect of overdue rates. Assqming INDUSTRY (Hon. M. P. Hynes, Towns­ the latter to be the case, I would point ville) replied- out that penalty interest charged by "1. When the present Government took local authorities on unpaid rates is not office the unemployment relief fund was comparable with the penalty charged insol~ent with an overdraft of £108,500, under the Agricultural Bank Acts in and a l~gacy of serious unemploym_ent respect of outstanding dues for the fol­ which this Government had to deal with. lowing reasons :- I have already stated publicly that the . 1. The bank penalty is a charge Government 'lxpects to maintain relief 1mposed for th'e late payment of cer­ operations during t~e financial :year, and tain dues in respect of moneys actually to finish the. year wrth a mttch Improved advanced by the Government from loan financial position in its relief fund. The funds and upon which interest is beino­ Christmas assistance to relief workers is paid by the Treasqry until such money'; 2066 I rulusirial Oonoiliation [ASSEMBLY.] and .Arbitration Bill.

are repaid. The charge by the local fore, it did not contain that measure of authority is a penalty for the late pay­ sympathy to the workers which might bo ment of rates, which is mainly a tax expected. imposed to meet the cost of local This Bill cannot be regarded as the final government. goal of the trade union movement, but it 2. The local authority charge is a certainly is a step in the right direction. I continuing penalty at the rate of 5 per have no doubt that, when its many clauses cent. per annum, whereas the bank's are put into effect, a better state of affairs penalty is not a progressive charge will be brought about, and unions will be but ceases when the maximt!ID figure able to function without suffering those of 1s. in the £1 is reached. harassing restrictions of which the Leader I might add that when the present Agri­ of the Opposition and his followerE> speak cultural Bank Act was passed in 1923, so frequently. the law, as regards penalty, was liberal­ The Bill provides amongst other things ised to the extent of extending the 6d. for the re-enactment .of the preference to in the £1 rate for a further thirty days, unionists clause, the introduction of a 44-hour making sixty ·days in all, whereas under week, the giving of access to the Industrial the previous Act a rate of 9d. in the Court to Government employees, and provi­ £1 was charged from the thirty-first to sion for greater facilities fer union officials the sixtieth day. In enacting the penalty and officials of the Department of Labour provision in the original Act, and in and Industry to prosecute unscrupulous maintaining it in all subsequent legisla­ exploiters of human labour, who at all times tion, the Parliament of the day was evi­ are ready to prey upon the worker. dently of opinion that sqch a provision There can be no argument advanced would act both as an incentive to bor­ against the granting of preference to rowers to pay promptly and as a deter­ unionists. The unions exist for the advance­ rent to those who might otherwise be ment and improvement of the conditions of inclined to view their obligations to the their members, and are ever on the alert to bank lightly. The experience gained by improve the lot of the workers and make the bank during the intervening years it better than it was previously. It is all amply confirms the wisdom and justice very well to talk about the tyranny of the of such a decision, and the· Government subject, interference with human liberty, does not, therefore, intend to make any and to say that an individual should be alteration in regard to the Agricultural permitted to do what he likes; but this Bank per;alty charges at the present striking fact has been very evident-that the time." particular section of the working class who oppose the introduction of preference to COliSTRCOTION OF RAILWAY FROJ'II CAMOOWEAL unionists can always be· found claiming every TO EROMANGA. improvement that a union can secure in HoN. W. H. BARNES (Wynnu,m), for industry. After all, that is the main thing Mr. G. P. BARJ\l'ES (War·wick), asked the that concerns the Labour movement. We Premier- claim that if a union, through its. fighting ~trength, can improve the lot of those for " In connection with the proposal by a whom it is constituted, there can be no argu­ British company to the Commonwealth ment against giving that union the right Government to construct a railway from to enrol the whole of the employees in the Port Darwin to Bourke, will he keep· in industry. If a worker does not desire to touch with this .matter with the object, join up with a union, he should not accept if the project ohould be adopted, of mak­ the conditions which they offer. Mr. G. ing every endeavour to secure the con­ Howell, M.P., an eminent authority, in hi& struction of the line through Queensland book on "Unionism," discusses the position along the existing surveyed route from of the non-unionist in these words- Camooweal to Eromanga ?" " Looked at from its purely social 'rhe PREMIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, aspects, much can be urged in favour of Mackay) replied_:__ the utmost pressure being applied to " The Government is making inquiries induce workmen to belong to the union. into the· nature of the proposal, and will Those who persistently remain outside take any necessary steps to safeguard neglect an obvious duty-the duty of the interests of this State." manfully doing their part to keep up the current rates of wages and maintain a maximum working day. Non-unionists INDUSTRIAL CONCILIATION AND are always ready to take advantage of the fruits of others' labours; they ought ARBITRATION BILL. to partake of some share in sowing the SECOND READING-RESUJ\!PTION OF DEBATE. seed, tilling the ground, and promoting Mr. WATERS (Kelvin Grove) [10.34 a.m.]: the growth and maturity of the harvest, I welcome the Bill, because it is designed to as well as reaping it and gathering it in. correct a number of anomalies, that were But this is not all that can be laid to brought about by the passage of the Act of their charge; they hang on the out­ 1929. We are all aware that that measure skirts of the union as a .drag, and in was sponsored by the Employers' Federation, times of dispute they go in to take the the Graziers' Association, and the other places of men who are fighting, not for wealthy eo-operations that support the themselves only, but for the whole trade. Nationalist Party. Naturally, from their Under military law a deserter is severely point of view, it was a particularly good punished; the man who fled into the measure, in that it incorporated all those enemy's camp to fight against his· own things for which they had so zealously and comrades would be shot without mercy." steadfastly fought over a period of years. In connection with the same subiect. Sir John It was put into operation at the instigation Quick, formerly Deputy President of the of the exploiters of the community, there- Commonwealth Arbitration Court, had this [Mr. Waters. Industrial Concil-iation [8 DECEMBER.] and Arbitration Bill. 2067 to say when dealing with the A.ustralian the Industrial Court. When the Industrial Railways Union cast-.,__ Court refused to function as the Moore ''I do not think I have the power to Government desired, the Government refused grant an order of preferen~e f.or the J?U.C­ to accept the decision of the court, and at pose of compelling non-umomsts to JOlll the first opportunity they removed the State a union which has obtained an award, employees from the jurisdiction of the court. but at the same time I Cl),nnot help 'I'he Labour Government were returned on a expressing my concurroi:tee ~with Mr. pledge to restore full citizen rights to State Blanch's view when he said: 'I have no employees, and they are taking this oppor­ time for the men who want something tunity of doing it. for nothing.''" Another interesting feature of the debate Those are the opinions of men who have was the offer c.f the Leader of the Opposition given some thou.uht and attention to the to eo-operate with the Government in the question of prefe;ence to unionists. If any trying times we are passing through. It is thoughtful person directs his attention to that interesting to note the magnanimity of the question, he ca.n only arrive on0 conclu- Nationalist Party when they are in opposi­ sion--that, if men are the tion. They are always anxious to co-operate benefits that the unions with the Government when they are in prepared to shoulder opposition; but, when they are in power, mon with those who are co-operation is not thought of. Instead of unions. that, they use the bludgeon at every oppor­ tunity, and their record shows that at every It was amusing to listen to the Leader of conceivable opportunity they bludgeoned the the Opposition when he spoke about restric­ workers in every possible manner. tions on industry. I do not think that in any debate in which he has part:cipated this The PREM'IER : It was a record of callous session the hon. gentleman has neglected to brutality. refer to the harassing restrictions on industry · Mr. WATERS: There is no doubt, as the and the evil consequences which are sure to Premier interjects, that theirs was a record follow Government legislation in the indus­ of "callous brutality." It is or1ly natural trial sphere. The hon. gentleman went on that they should be spurred on by the to say that measures such as we are discuss­ extremists of the employing class, who ing now would act as a deterrent to the naturally expect to have their orders obeyed. attraction of capital to Queensland. We The hon. member for Cook said that his have heard that cry ever since government party believed in arbitration, but, after was established in Australia, and ever since -Queensland obtained separation. The same listening to the speeches of hon. members on cry has always been advanced by hon. the front Opposition bench, I am very members opposite that, if the workers get doubtful whether they do believe in arbitra­ decent conditions, capital cannot be tion. If they do, it is the kind of arbitration attracted to this country; but in spite of which compels the workers to accept what­ their prophecies and maledictions hon. ever conditions they offer. That is quite a members opposite know that the country different brand of arbitration to that which has progressed and has reached a position is commonly accepted outside. which it would never have attained if the The hon. member further said there were advice of the prophets of gloom opposite no industrial troubles while the Moore had been adopted years ago. Any person Government were in po'VIer. It is impossible who gives any attention to the matter knows for people to revolt when the-y are held down that capital will be attracted to this country in chains. The different measures and the in spite of any industrial legislation spon­ different restrictions that were placed on the sored by this or any other Government in workers when the Mooro Government were Australia. in office prevented any industrial trouble, A provision in the Bill which I welcome because of the fact that the workers could deals with the rights of waterside workers. not revolt even though they wanted to. If any party should be ashamed of its action The hon. member for Cook went on to in discriminating against any section of the attack the Australian Workers' Union be­ community, then hon. members opposite and cause of its association with the Labour their colleagues in the Federal Parliament Party, and because the Australian ·workers' should certainly bow their heads in shame. Union contributed to the funds of the Aus­ These gentlemen who proclaim themselves tralian Labour Party. He included other to be the loyalists and the super-patriots of unions in his attack because those unions Australia-these gentlemen who at all times contributed to the election funds of the will tell the peop1e of Queensland how loyal Labour Party. It is a very right a.nd a they are-these are the gentlemen who, with very just thing that unions should contribute their colleagues in the Federal Parliament, to the political funds of the Labour Party. were responsible for the iniquitous legisla­ That ·party was founded as a result of the tion which prevented returned soldiers in this strikes in the " 'nineties." It was founded State from getting that measure of justice by the union movement ; and it is to the to which they were entitled. Instead of con­ union movement that we look at election sidering the interests of these men, hon. times for the necessary contributions. There members opposite and their friends encour­ is nothing particularly wrong with the aged aliens and people from low-wage workers who constitute the union movement countries to come here and put the Aus­ contributing through their unions to the tralian rBturned soldier out of a job. This election funds of the Labour Party. 'I'he Bill will give the watersjJe workers the Australian \Vorkers' Union and other uniom right to present themselves for engagement are perfectly justified in doing that, and 1 as they did prior to the shipping strike. hope they will continue to do it at sub­ There is another provision which certainly sequent elections. is welcome, and that is the pro·vision giving Hon. members opposite have talked a lot. to the employees of the State, including the a!:,out interference with individual liberty. railway employees, the right of access to Their record showed very definitely that, if Mr. Waters.] 2068 Industrial Conciliation [ASSEMBLY.) and Arbitration Bill.

it came to a question of individual liberty, We also had a speech from the hon. mem­ individual liberty would only apply to one ber for Rockhampton, in which he gave section-that is, to the wealthy exploiters of us quotations from Carlyle and other writers labour. They a·re the only people the OpJ?~­ whose authority he likes to bring to his sition are concerned about. So far as pc:hti­ support, but which as a matter of fact had cal contributions are concerned, the graziers, nothing to do with the case. He told the Employers' Federation, and other sup­ us nothing, nor did the Minister. In porters of the party opposite are _always m fact it se&med that the speeches which the forefront with their contributiOns when came from hon. members opposite were election time comes along. The Labou•r apologetic speeches. We also had a speech Party is unlike them in that it has to from the Leader of the Government, which depend on the workers' organisations for consisted of a tirade of abuse such as he support. generally indulges in. In the first place he I believe the Bill will be welcomed by the gave us a repetition of a speech he has people who elected the pres_en~ Governm~nt made in this Chamber on former occasions in June last. After all, this IS an electiOn about the employment of child labour in pledo-e and we owe it to the people who industry. That has nothing at all to do supp~r'ted us and who expected that the with the Bill. Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act Mr. SPEAKER: Order! If that is so. would be amended along the lines the Go­ the hon. member should not refer to it." vernment now propose. (Laughter.} If any fair minded person analyses the. Mr. MAXWELL : I wish to point out what Bill he will see that, so far as its relation a ridiculous statement it was to make 111 to Labour policy is concerned, it has been order to show that such a Bill was neces­ designed purely on the lines laid down in sary. He then attacked the Leader of the the policy speech. The Bill will be wel­ Opposition, and some statements he had made comed by the union movement and by the in reference to a letter to Mr. Scullin, in supporters of our party who Bxpected it to which the Leader of the Opposition gave be enacted. his word of honour that no legislative action The 44-hour wBek is something that the would be taken in connection with the sugar union movement will welcome. There is no industry. The Premier's statement was a doubt that, when the JYioore Government half denial of the statement of the Leader amended the Industrial Conciliation and of the Opposition. He could not deny that Arbitration Act, and abolished the 8-hour the latter had entered into a compact with day and the 44-hour week, Queensland was Mr. Scullin; but the inference to be drawn placed in a very invidious pos.ition. We from his remarks was that he thought that were then the only State in Aust-ralia where the only one who could enter into a com­ the statutory 8-hour day was not in force. pact with the Federal Labour Government The 8-hour day has been an accepted part cf was himself; but when he found that he the industrial conditions in Australia since was not Premier when Mr. Scullin was 1871. It was first introduced in Melbourne, Prim.e Minister and that, therefore, he could and subsequently adopted by the Test of th0 not avoid the responsibility for his statement States. It is regrettable to think that, after in that way, he endeavoured to cover his practically sixty years had passed, and con­ tracks by suggesting that the Labottr Prime ditions in other walks of life had improved, Minister would not accept the statement of the very thing which the Labour movement the Leader of the Opposition, knowing what was practically founded for in Australia­ his politics were, and that it was absolutely the 8-hotlr day-was abolished by the Moore essential that he should have something in Government. writing. So that we havB had nothing but The re-enactment of the 44-hour week will, apologies from hon. members opposite in I believe, be welcomed by Labour sup­ respecG of the Bill. porters. I trust that, although the Bill is We have heard from them about the at.ti­ not all that can be desired from the point tude of employers, and have been told that of view of the union movement, it will be it was esse::1tial to bring in this Bill because followed up by other suitable measures. It employers were starving the workers in is a step in the right direction, and as such order to get big profits. One only needs it has my full support. to pick up the daily papers to see what is happening throughout Australia-voluntary Mr. MAXWELL (Toowong) [10.54 a.m.]: liquidations, liquidations, bankruptcies of It has been my privilege, if I may eaU it firms which nobody ever thought would have such, to be present on the second reading of to submit to such courses. I regret it an important measurB such as this, when the exceedingly; but the fact proves that the Minister in charge of the Bill practically employers are not sucking the lifeblood out threw it on the table and said : " There it of the people, as hon. mem,bers opposite is; fight it out amongst yourselves! " That term it, for the purpose of building up big was a most discourteous attitude to adopt, profits. Let me refer hon. members to a especially on thj3 part of a Minister of a London cable which appeared in the Government who desire to make a tra~ic " Courier " of the 5th instant in reference change in the legislation of the State. to the Sydney harbour bridge. It appears What have hon. membe·rs opposite who under the headings-- supported the measure said? In the first place, the Minister, at the introductory stas;o " HA.RBOUR BRIDGE CONTRACT. of the Bill, indulged in a tirade of abuse "LOSS ',OF £442',27(). against employers throughout the length and " Effect of Strike and Exchange. breadth of Queensland. He :mid that the " According to the report of Messrs. time was ripe for the introduction of such a Dorman, Long, and Company, Limited, measure as this, and that not only was the the loss on the Sydney harbour bridge time ripe but the measure was in accordance contract was £247,000. Including the with the promises that had been made bv adverse exchange, however, the loss t<> the Government. " date totals £442,279." [Mr. Waters. Industrial Conciliation [8 DECEMBER.] and Arbitration Bill. 2069

That cable is very illuminating. It sets that are alleged. One has only to read the out that the parent company in London was report of the Commissioner of Taxes to informed that a considerable loss had been ascertain the position of employers through­ made in connection with its contract to out the State. The report clearly illustrates build the Sydney harbour bridge. the financial position of the mercantile, com­ mercial, and shipping communities. It Now let me submit something nearer at pointedly draws attention to the state of home. This circular was issued by a big affairs in the pastoral and grazing industry. drapery establishment, A.C.B. Limited- We have been told that the employers are " GOOD-BYE TO OUR FIFTEENTH YEAR. now living for the purpose Df starving the "A YEAR OF UNNECESSARY DEPRESSION. workers into economic submission. Such a statement is wrong, misleading, unfair, and "Yes! We Queenslanders have ·done is only part of the stock in trade of cheap­ many foolish things. We cut down jack politicians. wages and, by so doing, reduced the spending po·wer, which is the life's blood Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I hope the hon. of every industry, with the result that member will withdraw that remark. thousands of intelligent and efficient workers have, through no fault of theirs, Mr. MAXWELL: I do, Mr. Speaker. been thrown out of employment sup­ There is another business firm for sale as posedly to balance Budgets. a going concern. That is the business of A. " If an intelligent farmer requires an M. Hertzberg and Company, general mer­ extra effort from his horse-does he take chants-honourable and reputable citizens. away the corn from his feed? No !-he There are any number o£ such instances. inqreases the supply. This is just what If business was as profitable as one would we have decided to do. Recognising the imagine it to be after hearing the speeches many blunders made, we are determined of hon. members opposite, and if to enter our sixteenth year of service to employers were making the money they the people by going right off the wrong would have us believe, how is it that such a standar·d-just as the British Government condition of affairs as I have instanced exists has gone off the .gold standard. throughout the length and breadth of . this city? It is not an uncommon sight to see " Our first act for our new year is to in our main streets notices such as this, restore the wages of our employees to "Gigantic Sale! In Voluntary Liquidation!" the 1929 standard-the highest standard It is a tragic fact. No one regrets more in Queensland's history-that is our birth­ than I do the fact that a firm like A.C.B. day gift to our employees throughout Limited has been forced into voluntary Queensland to ensure the highest stan­ liquidation. I know Mr. Byerley. He is a dard of service. thoroughly decent and hardworking man. " Our fifteenth birthday gifts to the All through his business career he has been people of Queensland will be equally sub­ prepared to comply with the laws of the stantial. The A.C.B. fifteenth birthday. community, but has now been compelled to sale is being launched for this purpose. retire from business. He is not alone in The A.C.B. wholesale warehouse, and that respect. Yet hon. members opposite their chain of thirty-five stores through­ tell us that the employers are robbing the out Queensland, has over half a million employees! pounds worth of merchandise. With this The industrial legislation of the Moore merchandise we are going to stir up Government has come in for criticism; but sunny Queensland with a birthday sale I would draw hon. members' attention to that will be long remembered. Everv­ that portion of the policy speech of our body wants cheering up and we are going Leader in 1929 concerning the Industrial to set the ball rolling in the true Aus­ Conciliation and Arbitration Act, wherein tralian spirit. With the bounteous sea­ he sought a mandate from the people for sons Queensland is enjoying-everybody our policy in that respect. He stated in the should be busy and happy. We are going course of that speech- to make all our stores so busy that we can add at least another 200 assistants " (1) Industry is the source of indivi­ to our staff." Jual welfare and our main work for the unions and the Government should be to Mr. GODFREY M ORGAN: What happened to provide industry with healthy conditions that company? under which it can develop and produce The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : It could to its utmost capacity. Those. actually not survive the Moore blight. engaged in the various industries are far better qualified to formulate condi­ Mr. MAXWELL: The MD·Ore Government tions which will conduce to satisfactory assumed control in 1929; but this has hap­ pened since their defeat at the polls. The results. " Telegraph" of yesterday contained this "(2) The application of rigid condi­ announcement- tions of wages and hours to all industries irrespective of the wide variation in " THE A.C.B., LIMITED, IN LIQUIDATION. their capacity is so economically absurd "Huge liquidation sale under instruc­ that it must lead to the closing down of tions from the Public Curator, the official many industries and to consequent unem­ trustee of the company, at the A.C.B. ployment. Adelaide street store and city bargain " (3) The employer and employees in basement.'' any undertaking who are ahle to come to No one can read such a tragic announcement terms embodying the sharing of profits with any degree of pleasure. Hundreds of or other benefits arising from their employees have been thrown on to the indus­ co-operative effort will be permitted to trial scrap heap. I am end~avouring to> register their agreement and it will have prove to hon. members opposite that the full force and effect with respect to their employers are not making the huge profits industry. Mr. Jl.iaxwell.] 2070 Industrial Conciliation [ASSEMBLY.] and Arbitration Bill.

"(4) We intend to encourage the system their attitude. The "Telegraph," the of round--table conferences between " Courier," and the «·Daily Mail" have employer and employed and works com­ all pointed out the injustice tha,t is being mittees. No case w1ll be allowed to done to the people. We on this side view proceed to the Arbitration Cour~ unless the position with a,larm, because we realise it can first be shown that the parties have the difficulties existing in business to-day and met in round-table conference ":nd appreciate the fact that a large number of exhausted other means of preservmg men and women are on the bread line. We industrial peace. know, too, that the passing of such a, Bill as " (5) The right to work; no job mono­ this will accentuate unemployment. In its polies. issqe this morning the " Brisbane Courier " " (6) Abolition of political levies. ma,kes this pertinent statement- "(7) Abolition of rural awards." " 'l'hese are not the times in which the costs of industry can be increased with The people gave a mandate for that policy impunity. In a large aod magnanimous in just the same way as hon. members oppo­ way the Government might reduce the site sa,y they have a mandate from the hours of labour, and it might say that it people for the policy they are now P!ltti~g was acting on the principle that shorter into effect. At the electwn the public d1d hours meant more employment; but if it not believe that the Government would take did say so it would confess that it was up the attitude that they represent only one acting upon a fallacy. Mr. Forgan Smith class of the community. That has been said in his policy speech spoke much of a in another place, and by hon. members revival of industry. Queensland indus­ opposite on various occasions. They declare tries have to compete with those of other that they have been elected to represent the States. How ca,n a reduction in the workers, and that they are the only people hours of lahour in Queensland help to they care about. That is a wrong position bring about a revival of industry? The for the elected representatives of the people decision to defer the coming into opera­ to take up. We on this side of the House tion of the new provision indicates that do not assume that attitude, and I personally some membe·rs of the Government Party do not. I represent every man and woman at any rate fear (as they have reason to in my electorate, and d~ my b€Jst for them fea,r) tha,t immediate fulfilment of the irrespective of what thEJir poht10s may be. promise would be disastrous. As for the That is the only way m whwh confidence rest, the Government is banking on ,a, can be maintained in this State. return of better times; but even in this I cannot understand the attitude which measure it is doing something to post­ has been taken up by the Leader of the pone further the dawn of a happier era." Government and his colleagues in brin[;(mg Hon. members on the Government side down such a Bill as this. I quite endorse are prone to quote extracts from the " Bris­ the sentiments expressed by the Leader of bane Courier." I quote this extract from the 'Opposition and his followers who have that joumal, and thoroughly endorse the spoken on t~is d~ba.te. It was most unfahl? to sentiments so ably expressed. introduce th1s B1ll m the manner m whwh 1t Another point which must be considered has been introduced. Such a mea,sure should have been introduced earlier in the session in is how the consumers will be affected by order to give the public an opportunity of this measure. The consumers must be pro­ knowing the class of legislation that is being tected. A Bill such as this undoubtedly introduced. But that did not appeal to the means an increase in the cost of production. Government, who evidently had ma,de a The giving of the 44-hour week will increase the cost of running the railways by about promise to outside organisati.ons t.ha~ this £100,000 per annum. It is not so much the measure would become opera,tlve w1thm SJX months. So, in the last hours of a dying 44-hour week as it is the overtime associated session, the Bill is being rushed through i11 with it. Hon. members opposite do not a manner that does not give hon. members mind unionists working sixty hours a week. an opportunity to understand its contents They say, "We want a 44-hour week." That thoroughly. Yesterday we had the Premier is the stipulated time; but, if any member declaring that he did certain things in con­ of a umon works long.er than forty-four nection with the Bill. I a,dmjt that the hon. h~mrs a week, he must receive the recog­ gentleman gave us a copy of the Bill at 9.30 nised amount for the overtime worked. I yesterday. have heard of one man who received in overtime alone on one trip the sum of £81. The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY: We agreed to the arrangement !llade by you The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : -to proceed with the other Bills in order to He must ha,ve been a lawyer. give you an opportunity to study this one. Mr. MAXWELL: He was not a lawyer. Mr. MAXWELL: I admit that that That is the point that one should stress arrangement was made. I acceded to the in dealing with a measure such as this, arra,ngement because, if you cannot get a which has for its object the introduction of whole loaf, it is better to take half a loaf. the 44-hour week. I speak with the experi­ At the same time the action of the present ence of a worker and the experience of an Government is not on a par with that of the employer. Now I am not an employer at Moore Government, which afforded plenty of all. I am employed by the people of the opportunity for the discussion of a similar State to protect their interests; and I hope measure. I shall do it much better than some of the hon. members opposite. What I cannot M·r. GLEDSON: It was "gagged" through. understand is this : If this 44-hour week Mr. MAXWELL: How does the hon. mem­ is such a good thing, why has it been left ber know? He was not in the la,st Parlia­ to the last days of the session to introduce ment. it? And then why postpone its application The local newspapers are somewhat per­ till 1st July, 1933? turbed as to the action of the Government The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : m this matter. I think they are justified in I told you why. [Mr. Maa:well. Industrial Conciliation [8 DECEMBER.} and A·rbitraticn Bi:l. 2071

Mr. MAXWELL: I will tell the hon. finding a case for low wag&~ anci an gentleman why. It was the only way out extension of the deflation policy which of a serious difficulty. As a matter of fact, had brought about such disastrous rather than wreck the Bill, caucus said, results." " Very well, we will bring it in on 1st As I said before, from. the point of view July, 1933." I know that there was a of the party opposite, he was not tempera­ difference of opinion in caucus. I want to mentally fitted for the position. Because know why the leaders of this great he was a man who h'ad gone into matters Party will not be honest and tell the people thoroughly, sincerely, and honourably, he the exact position. Rather than look for a was not fit to be a member of the Industrial catch-cry for votes to enable them to enter Court. this Chamber why are they not straight­ forward and why do they not tell the people Let me draw attention· to another matter the exact position in Australia to-day? Let in connection with statements that have been the workers understand that, just as a busi­ made about certain individuals being ness man in difficulties calls a meeting of appointed. If the Minister wants the Indus­ his creditors and asks for an extension of trial Court to work in a proper way not time, so did Australia meet her creditors with "temperamentally fitted:' me~bers and ask for an extension of time in connec­ but members representative of all sections of tion with the conversion loan. But the the community-it is no use appointing Labour Party do not do that. They prefer union delegates or organisers members of to carry on in a way that will place them in the court to determine what the conditions power. It is a matter of l?ersonal concern of industry shall be. They are naturally with them-" What I am gomg to secure for permeated with certain ideas-I am not myself?" rather than "What is good for blaming them for that-but they should not my country?" That seems to be the aim be put on the Industrial Court bench to and object of hon. members opposite. pass judgment on employers in the cases The people were misled by Mr. Pid­ brought before the court. I say that men dington. I cannot blame unfortunate )ike that are biassed, and they cannot help individuals who were not as well edu­ It. cated as Mr. Piddington for accepting It has been said that we all have a tempera­ his figures. He said millions of pounds were mental bias, and we may have; but the available, and all the people had to do was Industrial Court cannot be a success while to demand a share and they would get it. it is composed of such men as I have men­ Not one word was said as to where Mr. tioned. It is no wonder that men are say­ Piddington's figures were wrong, but Mr. ing to-day that the Industrial Court should Sutcliffe in a later statement in connection be wiped out. I say that it should not be with the matter pointed out where they were wiped out, but it should be made a high misleading. That is where the harm is and honourable court. Why should mem­ done. Men in high positions mislead the bers of the court who have cceupied positions people by making incorrect statements, which as union organisers and secretaries receive operate to the detriment of the whole com­ the same salary on the Industrial Court munity. bench as a puisne judge of the Supreme Court? They have had no legal training I would ask the Minister why Mr. Brigden and have been trained only in one channel was not allowed to retain his position as a with one viewpoint only. It is wrong and Commissioner of the Industrial Court. the salary is too high. It is unfai; and The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : unjust that such a position should obtain He resigned. in a British community. Mr. MAXWELL : I will tell the Minister I have my own opinion about employers why he resigned. It was because it was going to the Industrial Court, but on that alleged that he was not " temperamentally point I shall give the view of Mr. Justice fitted." On 25th February, 1932, the " Daily Webb, as reported on 29th December 1927, Standard " had this to say- in the "Sydney Morning Herald",_:_ " BRIGDEN'S APPOINTMENT DEPRECATED. " The Queensland Branch of the Aus­ " FORGAN SMITH's CoMMENT. tralian Builders' Labourers' Federation, which was deregistered early in the year, "Discussing the appointment of Mr. as a result of a strike aimed at securing J. B. Brigden, Director of the Bureau a 40-hour week, was granted re-regis­ Df Economics and Statistics, as Concilia­ tration to-day in the Arbitration Court. tion Commissioner, the .Leader of the The conditions are the remission of all Opposition (Mr. W. Forgan Smith) said ~nes. imposed on mern,bers for disobey­ that the appointment was a very doubt· Ing mstructwns not to work more than ful one. It would not strengthen the 40 hours a week and the reinstating of court in any way. members expelled from the unions for " Mr. Brigden was appointed early disobeying those instructions. in the Government's reign as an econo· "The President (Mr. Justice Webb) mist, and his advent was greeted with said he hoped the union would remain a great flourish of trumpets, but up to rel)istered. The employees have more to the present the bureau had apparently gam from arbitration than the employers, not been of any public benefit. who got little advantage out of it." " Its activities were very largely With regard to the 44-hour week, Mr. devoted to obtaining returns from busi· Speaker, you have been in this House a ness firms, which often cost them a great· long time, and you remember just as I deal, and generally were of little or no remember the statern,ents which have been value for public purposes when ob· made by hon. members opposite on this tained." subject from time to time. I can visualise The sting is in the tail- the struggle which the late David Weir, " Mr. Brigden's association with the my old friend Charles Collins, the hon. Government had been in the direction of member for Bowen, and Harold Hartley A!r. Mar.well.l 2072 Induatrial Conciliation [ASSEMBLY.] and Arbitration Bill. had ~ith the Labour Government of ·the Speaking in this House in 1927, the then dav with regard to the 44-hour week and Premier, Mr. McOormack, said- the basic wage. We thought Mr. Collins " I ask Labour members of this House was to be the Labour Premier of Queensland the question : Does Labour stand for -I understand that he. was, for twenty arbitration and for the honouring of the minutes. decisions given by its own Board of To-day we find that gentlemen opposite Trade and Arbitration? You yourselves have shifted their ground. The attitude elected the two members of that Board they take up now is different from the of Trade and Arbitration; one was your attitude they adopted then. The late Chief ex-Premier, the other was the general Justice McCawley said on one occasion- secretary of the union that is involved in this dispute. That board gave a "Argum,ents which may be suggested decision, and it was not honoured. against direct intervention are- What attitude did the executive of the (1) Parliament is not suitably con­ union take up in regard to that decision? stituted for the exercise of this Mr. Riordan urged the men to accept the specialised function. decision, and the executive urged them (2) A party political matter will be to accept the decision that was arrived made of what hitherto has been at, so that it could then be imposed on regarded as in the nature of a judicial the employers. Mark that-imposed on function. the employers at South Johnstone! Not agreed to, but imposed on the em­ (3) Wages may vary with the swing ployers!" of the political pendulum. Political gains may be transitory, may be That statement was made by the late Labour reversed by succeeding Parliaments, Premier, Mr. McOormack; and note the and may jeopardise the whole system statement he made : " You yourselves ele.cted of arbitration." the two members of that Boar-d of Trade and Arbitration; one was your ex-Premier, Mr. McCormack and Mr. Theodore agreed the other was the general secretary of the that, if you reduced the working week by union that is involved in this dispute." four hours, you reduced the productive We also have the opinions of Mr. Theo­ capacity of workmen by one-twelfth .. dore. He found fault with the action of the It is remarkable that we should find men movement in desiring that a 44-hour week shifting their ground just to satisfy the should be placed on the statute-book. We whims and beliefs of a certain section of know full well that it created considerable the community. The Premier, as reported strife within the Labour Party. Hon. mem­ in the " Daily Standard " of 7th December, bers opposite are responsible to the people, 1923, said- just as we are responsible to the people. " No Government could afford to When the Leader of the Opposition was ignore the• economic consequences of any delivering his second reading speech on this action that it might decide to take. Bill, hon. members opposite did not show " A reduction of four hours a week sufficient courtesy to remain to listen to would mean a reduction of 8!, per cent. what he had to say. He delivered a splen­ in the productive power of labour of did speech, but there were only three mem­ Queensland. He stood for a 44-hour bers of the Government Party in the Cham­ week, and he also believed in a good ber while he was speaking. I say definitely many other reforms of a far-reaching that discourtesy has been introduced into this character. He believed that a consider­ Parliament by hon. members opposite. That able reduction in the working hours in may have a boomerang effect; but I cer­ Australia could be brought about by tainly hope that it will not have the more scientific· methods of production, boomerang effect that one might imagine. by the elimination of waste and by the When Mr. Theodore was Premier of Queens­ organisation of industry on a better land, he delivered a speech before the Trades basis than at present existed. Thus, a and Labour Council, and it was reported greater return could be given to labour, in the "Daily Standa.rd " of 6th December, and it would be employed more effec­ 1923. Hon. members on this side congratu­ tively. So far as being able to lated him upon that speech, and I suppose reorganise society on a more scientific our action really meant the end of Mr. basis was concerned, the representatives Theodore politically in this State. The of the unions had not been able to Opposition were prepared to congratulate organise themselves." a man who had the courage of his convic­ tions and was prepared to point out the · What has the hon. gentleman to say to economic consequences of certain political that? The unions have evidently been quite actions. This is the report of his speech- strong enough to compel the Governm,ent to pass this legislation. Mr. McCormack, " The Premier pointed out that for a as reported at page 1421 of " Hansard," reform to be enduring they wanted to 30th November, 1927, said- be sure of its economic soundness before they brought it in. He said, in some " The great mass of the workers must industries it would be impossible to give be educated to understand that economi­ a 44-hour week, beoause of interstate cally they can only have what they earn competition. He quoted a judgment of -no more and no less. Mr. Justice McCawley in connection with " What I fear is that the man who the saddlery trade to support his argu­ really wants to work and is willing to ment. For an industry carried on in do work will not be able to get it, Queensland in competition with Victoria because Australia is drifting in regard an allowance would have to be made for to economic conditions to where she certain factors. It would go out of e.xist­ cannot profitably produce, and until we ence if it could be undercut from Vic­ face this situation we are going to have toria. It would be said, ' Business is genuine unemployment." business.' The Legislature might fix a [Mr. Maxwell. Industrial Conciliation [8 DECEMBER.) and Arbitra•ion Bill. 2073

35-hour week for· all industries. In a. minds a celestial paradise impossible to few months industries depending on achieve. It is no use putting in a plat­ overseas markets would cease to exist. form a theory that is impracticable of Industries not subject to competition operation. might carry on, but at a high cost to "To knock off four hours a week the workers using the commodities." would reduce the producing capacity of Mr. SPEAKER: Order ! The hon. mem­ an industry roughly 8~ per cent. Some ber has exhausted the time allowed him would say that by reducing hours pro­ under the Standing Orders. duction would .not be reduced at all, that there would be a greater efficiency. Mr. NICKLIN (Murrumba) [11.35 a.m.]: Unhappily that was not the case. He I move- was speaking with experience as the " That the hon. member for Toowong head of an administration, administering be granted an extension of time to nationaliseef industries as well as others. enable him to complete his speech." Mr. Theodore said he had spoken Mr. SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the frankly. He did .not want to deceive House that the hon. member for Toowong tbem by saying that the 44-hours week be granted an extension of time to· enable had not been legislated upon because the him to complete his speech? Government had not had time. The reason was that it was not good policy HoNOlJI!ABLE MEMBERS: Hear, hoor l by legislation to hamper or interfere Mr. MAXWELL : I thank hon. members with the free exercise ..by the Arbitration for their courtesy. I was dealing with an Court of its duties. The Legislature is expression of opinion by Mr. Theodore. He not the instrument to effect that kind of said on the same occasion- reform. If it were there would be no " I want to show why the Government need fo•r arbitration at all. We cannot did not think it wise to legislate for a hope to reform the work by legisla.tion. '44-hour week,' said the Premier. There are a great many injustices that ' There are consequences which hit the can be cured by legislation, but these worker as well as others in matters of industrial matters bearing upon the this kind. The Labour Platform does economic wellbeing of the country can not lay it down that the Government far better be dealt with by the unions must introduce legislation to provide a ln the Arbitration Court." 44-hour week-it lays it down as Mr: Theodore said what was true, especially follows:-' A maximum 44-hours week when he further said this:- with no increase to those working fewer holl!rs.' No one can find fault with that, " There is no royal road to an indus­ hut a lot of people think because it is on trial millennium. We have to weigh the Labour Platform it is the duty of no exactly the effects of every piece of one but the Government to bring it into legislation that we pass. Therefore, the operation. That is where I join issue passing of a statutory 44-hour week with those controversialists. In accom­ would have been very unwise.'' plishing any principle of the Labour I have quoted a statement by Mr. movement at large, and the constituent 'fheodore, one by Mr. MoCormack, and a parts of it as is the duty of the third statement by the present Premier. Government, the Government and the That being so, I do not think it is nece~sary Parliamentary Party have perhaps more for me to quote the opinions of any more opportunities of carrying the reform than parliamentarians. others, and in some cases they have the I shall now quote the opinion of the then only opportunity available, the control of President of the Chamber of Manufactures, Parliament, but in many cases reforms an ex-Lord Mayor of Brisbane, Mr. A. A. could be accomplished by the unions and Watson, when speaking in Brisbane in 1924. other sections of the Labour movement. In the course of his address he dealt with " The Premier considered it most desir­ manufacturecrs generally, and was no doubt able to accomplish such reforms as a prompted to do so because the 44-hour week 44-hour week through the Arbitration was then under discussion. ' Court. When the matter was submitted Mr. W. T. KING: Say something origiual. to the court consideration was given to the economic question. Such resolutions Mr. MAXWELL : The hon. member does were often carried light-heartedly at a not understand common sense; it is too convention. Gene·rally speaking the, original for him. No wonder Mr. Theodore decisions of convention were wise and left the State. I really believe that he did strictly in accordance with the true spirit so because he was pushed here, there, and of Labour, .but sometimes five minutes' everywhere, by hon. members of the type of consideration was given to a great prin­ those who are sitting on the Government ciple. Before any of these items could benches to-day. At any rate, this is what be legislated, he or his colieagues would this President of the Chamber of Manufac­ have to giye hours of thought and con­ tures said in his address:- sideration, and sometimes they would "Forty-four hours is a burning ques­ find them to be impracticable of imme­ tion in Queensland to-day, and is placing diate application. The 44-hours week a great handicap upon our industries. was one of these questions so far as It is hard' enough in all conscience to legislation was concerned. ' It might be compete with Southern goods, but to said by critics that I am really advocating carry an extra burden of four hours' less an employer's policv and not a Labour production means strangulation. I ques­ policy,' said the Premier. 'I want to tion if anyone has seriously considered assure you that there is nothing of that what it means. Let me give you a simple sort in it. 'I'he Labour policy must be illustration of its far-reaching effects. founded on practicability. We have A Southern firm employing 967 hands never set ourselves up as dreamers working forty-eight hours can produce or theorists merely picturing in our what 1,000 hands will be needed to do Mr. Maxwell.] 2074 Industrial Gorwihation lASSEMBLY.] and Arbitration Bill.

in Queensland. The extra wages at £5 that had t.aken place. I now ·desire to submit per week, apart from the extra building evidence to the contrary- space required, machines, tools, etc., would be :£415 per week-:£20,750 per " QUEENSLAND FACTORIES. annum. Multiply that by the 1,000 The statutory basic wage of £,1 5s. per week and t~e employed, and you will ha_ve some con· statutory 44-hour week commenced to operate tn ~ueensland in 1925-26. The following figures ception of the great hand1cap and the extracted jrom the Commonwealth Year Books impossibility of developing competitive Bhow the actual 1·esults in the mrious secondary secondary industries in Queensland. industrie.• subject to outside competition :- " The universal introduction of this measure into Queensland will strike the Nu~rmm oF greatest blow that has ever been struck El\fPI,OYEES. In· at Queensland development. Make it a Class of Factory. crease Federal law, if you like, but be sure of or De- this, that this mighty continent cannot 1925- 1927- crease. hope to find markets for high-cost goods. 26. 28. It will mean an increase of :£250,000 in the sugar industry, £55,800 to the cart• Tanneries ...... 310 247 63 ing industry. It simply means that the Wool scouring works .. 421 356 65 purchasing power of the sovereign is Soap and candle factories 192 182 - 10 further reduced without any ad-ded bene­ Sawmills, etc. 5,361 4,910 -451 fit to the workers, and a reduced market Agricultural implement 239 250 11 works for his labour. Foundries . . . . 2,820 2,176 -644 " It will mean extra cost to the Govern­ Ore reduction works 612 50 -552 ment, which means increasing the burden Bacon factories .. 555 565 10 of taxation. In the Railway Department Butter, cheese, and miik 1,340 1,125 -224 factories it will mean an additional expenditure of l\Icat and fish preserving 3,663 3,281 -382 :£120,000, Home Department, :£102,000, works Police, :£61,000, and other departments Jam factories . . . . 351 353 2 about :£30,000. It will mean increased Confectionery factories .. 544 552 8 taxation and lesser production, and, Flour mills . . . . 340 286 -54 as Lecky, in his work, 'Democracy and Sugar mills . . . . 6,835 6,005 -830 Breweries ...... 598 448 -150 Liberty,' says, ' No truth of political Woollen mills . . . . 295 333 38 economy is more certain than that heavy Boot and shoe 'factories .. 1,394 1,131 -263 taxation of capital which starves indus­ Clothing f11ctories .. 3,1fl2 2,970 -192 try will fall most heavily on the poor.' " Dressmaking and millinery 713 659 -54 Printeries ...... 3,1\09 3,408 -201 Such statements must be listened to because Motor and cycle works .. 1,432 1,260 -172 they come from an undoubtedly capable man, Furniture factories .. 1,355 1,234 -121 who was later appointed by the Bruce 1- Government to a responsible position on the Total decreases 4,428 Total increases .. 69 Board of Trade. After all, the employers 1---- who are talked so much about were men who Net decrease in two years 4,359 at one time were tradesmen or served behind the counter, and later on reached responsible positions through industry, thrift, acumen, NOTE.-The above list includes all factories honesty, and integrity. But the great efforts except those (such as gasworks, electric light works, of these men will be wiped out by such a railway workshops, &c.) which are not materially tragic measure as this. affected by outside competition." Mr. W. T. KING: No. The list I have quoted includes all fac­ Mr. MAXWELL-: Those are my views. tories except gasworks, electric light works, 'I'he hon. member who interjects is entitled railway workshops, etc., which are not to his opinion, but he has not had a long materially affected by outside competition. experience. I have watched the career of a number of men who have entered public I think sufficient evidence has been ad­ life under the banner of Labour. These duced by the Leader of the Opposition, the men lost no opportunity in stating what they ex-Treasurer, the hon. member for Wynnum, would do for the workers. I remember the hon. member for Cook, and myself in on one occasion in this Chamber I said to Mr. my humble capacity, to convince right­ Theodore, " You told the people you would thinking hon. members opposite of the lead them to the gat,es of paradise. You led damage which is going to be caused by th.om there; but, when they looked in through the hamstringing regulations which are the gates, they could find nothing but Hades going to be imposed on the people of the on the other side." (Opposition laughter.) State. No matter what price we may put Take Mr. Glassey, Mr. Kidston and various upon our commodities, the worker has to other Labour leaders-- ' pay; but he has not got the money to pay under the present circumstances. It is hard Mr. SPEAKER : Order ! The hon. mem­ to understand any body of intelligent men, ber is wandering a little. who are asking for the co-operation and Mr. MAXWELL: Yes, Mr. Speaker, in assistance of the business community in an my enthusiasm. What I was trying to show endeavour to put Queensland on a sound is that these shibboleths that hon. members financial basis, doing( such a mad-brained are putting up are going to be to the detri­ thing as this is; and on the top of it all, ment of the whole community. These other appointing a biassed court-a court tem­ men I have mentioned changed their minds peramentally fitted to carry out the wishes because they had minds to change, and tried of Labour. to correct the errors of their lifetime when Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I ask the hon. they were in politics. member to withdraw the assertion that a The hon. member for Rockhampton dealt biassed court is being appointed. It is very with the question of manufactures and fac­ undesirable that remarks such as these should tories. and he pointed out the improvement be made in Parliament. [lll1·. Maxu·ell. Industrial Conciliation [8 DECEMBER.] and Arbitration Bill. 2075

Mr. MAXWELL: All right, Mr. Speaker, The history of the Toowoomba Foundry I withdraw it. dispute definitely discloses the attitude of the Moore Government and their class· Mr. LLEWELYN (Toowoomba) [11.54 consciousness in the matter. Section 62B a.m.] : I welcome the Bill before the House, was one of the most reactionary pieces of not so much because it is the fulfilment of legislation ever introduced into this Cham· a pledge given at the elections, but because ber. It robbed the court of its discretionary I feel that at the present time a system of power in the regulation of hours in indus­ arbitration based on equity and justice is try. I am honestly of the opinion that it sadly needed. I recognise that throughout was introduced at the behest of the directors the ages it has been difficult to adjust of the Toowoomba Foundry Company. It problems between employers on the one ha.nd is well known throughout Queensland, and and employees on the other hand. One to the people of Toowoomba in particular, of the prominent planks in the Labour plat­ that this company pays no regard whatever form is the establishment of a system of to the interests of its workers. Following conciliation and arbitration, and I believe the advent of the Moore Government to that the worker can at least 'receive some power, and commencing in November, 1929, measure of justice and recognition, and enjoy the company made repeated requests to the a reasonable standard of living under an court and on the job in Too·woomba in an arbitration system. endeavour to increase the working hours, I recognise also that it is impossible to reduce the wages, degrade the employees, introduce a measure likely to give satis­ and generally lower the status of its workers. faction to everyone; but I believe that this Several applications were made to the court, Bill is one that will meet with the approval and all were unsuccessful with the exception of the majority of the electors. We have of the one that was heard by Mr. Brigden a section of the community who will tell in April of this year. At the end of 1931- us that arbitration has no merits. The Com­ presumably at the suggestion of the Too­ munists openly say that they do not place woomba Foundry Company-the Moore Go­ any reliance on any system of arbitration. vernment enacted the notorious section 62B, With that I do not agree. thereby compelling the employees of the Toowoomba Foundry Company to work An OPPOSITION MEMBER : Are you not & Communist? longer hours and to work under conditions that approximated the conditions that Mr. LLEWELYN: I am not, although obtain in the other States. The section I do believe that the word " communist "-- meant that, if the Southern States deemed Mr. TOZER: You are qualifying your state­ it advisable to increase the hours to fifty-two, ment. fifty-four, or sixty per week, it would amount to an instruction to the Queensland Indus­ Mr. LLEWELYN: I am not. On this trial Court to take similar action in the point I am very definite. I believe in strict interests of the Toowoomba Foundry Corn· observance of the laws of tb

This a waro was to take effect from 23rd soon became apparent; and now there are May, but on 18th May the unions concerr:ed, about twenty-five men who have remained numbering ten, of whom five were not mted loyal to the instructions to the unions. Other as parties to the plaint before the court, proceedings have been taken since, and hon. lodged an appeal under section 11 of the members really know how the matter stands Act against the Brigden variation. The at present. new award was automatically suspended I might be asked what I would do by way until the appeal was determined. The Too­ of finding a solution of the difficulty. I recog· woomba Foundry Company had, therefo.re, nise that the matter is difficult, just as I to continue business under the award exist­ realise that preference to unionists is not a ing at the time of the application to Mr. be-all and end-all; but I do believe that Brigden. It is interesting to note how the promulgation of the principle of pre· cunning the Toowoomba Foundry Company ferenoe to unionists in this Bill will have have been, and how, by devious methods, the desired effect in preventing such a state they have evaded the law. Hon. members of affairs as has been existing at Toowoomb:> opposite, when referring to peaceful picket· since the trouble commenced. ing by men on strike with the object of stating their case to the men who might Mr. PLUNKETT: There are other places be induced to take their place in industry, besides Toowoomba. have expressed the opinion that they should Mr. LLEWELYN : The Toowoomba Foun­ be placed behind prison bars. 'l'hat being dry Company was the only party mentioned so, an employer of labour who disregards in the plaint. The Queensland Ironmasters' an award of the court, as the Toowoomba Association was represented by Mr. Foundry Company did, should be treated Benjamin; but the whole matter really in the same manner. The Toowoomba resolved itself into a question as to what Foundry Company were confident and cock­ rates and conditions should obtain at the sure of their ultimate victory over the Toowoomba Foundry. workers; so much so that they made every preparation to operate under the Brigden The amendment of the Act that was made award. They showed their resentment at by the Moore Government was a treacherous the action taken by the unions by locking out piece of legislation. When I listened yes­ their employees for three and a-half days terday to the Lea·der of the Opposition and per week, while on the remaining two days· to the hon. member for Wynnum stating which they worked their employees they only that this Bill catered only for one section of observed the rates and conditions laid down the community, I could not help thinking in the award made by Mr. Brig·den, which that, if ever a political bludgeon had been was suspended pending the appeal of the used, it was on the occasion when the Moore unions. Government passed the legislation to which I have referred. I can only hope that this The unions retaliated by instructing their Bill will bring back peace in industry. I members to decline to work under these rates say that the court, ae constituted, will be and conditions, which were less favourable imbued with a spirit that is in the best to them than those prescribed in the interests of industry. It will secure all the mechanical engineering award. This was evidence and data that it is possible to done as provided by section 97 of the Act. obtain, and it will come to a decision that Then the company, by a public declaration, will give a measure of justice and equity stated that, in view of the appeal of the to the workers as a whole without inflicting unions, the company's intention was to hold injury on anyone else, in trust the difference between the rate prescribed in the mechanical engineering Mr. TOZER (Gympie) [12.15 p.m.]: This award and that prescribed by the Brig.den Bill is one of the most important Bills intra· variation, and, if the appeal was upheld, the duced by the Government during the present company would pay such trust money to session; and, that being the case, I wish to those employees from whom it had been enter a protest against the manner in which withheld. The company arrogated to itself the Bill was brought in. When it was a right that was not provided in the Act. introduced yesterday, the first reading was The unions countered that declaration by passed, and we then proceeded straight away pointing out that under section 85 of the Act to its second reading, and the only informa­ it was mandatory ·to pay in full all wages tion we had received was an analysis of the prescribed by an award, except, of course, Bill by the Minister when introducing it in legally authorised deductions, and that the Committee. Naturally we expected that, Wages Act made a similar provision. The when the Bill came to its second reading, unions reaffirmed their instructions to their hon. members would be given an opportunity members to decline to work for the Brigden to rQad it through so that they would be in rates and conditions. Thus the struggle a position to debate it. But immediately began in real earnest between the Toowoomba the second reading was moved we were Foundry Company and its employees. At expected to get up and debate its provisions the beginning of June approximately one witho11-t a copy of the Bill having been hundred men were out of employment. The delivered to hon. members. Under the cir­ men had been performing work customarily cumstances it is utterly impossible to debate done by members of the Amalgamated Engi. the Bill intelligently. We naturally neering Union, the Australian Workers' expected that the Minister, in moving the Union, the Boilermakers' Society, the second reading, would give a full explana-_ Moulders' Federation, the Coachmakers' tion of the principles of the Bill; but, for Federation, the Plumbers' Union, and the some reason or other, he just moved, " That Blacksmiths' Society. The men held a mass the Bill be now read a second time," and meeting, and a ·disputes committee was sat down. Whether he was absolutely formed. Ninety per cent. of the men for ashamed of the Bill, or whether it was that some time remained loyal to the unions, hut, he had no arguments to put up in support in response to overt and covert propaganda of it, I do not know. If you are interested by the company to return to work under the in a law case and the defendant does not Brigden rates and conditions, disaffection go into the box, there is some reason why [Mr. Lleu·elyn. Industrial Conciliation [8 DECEMBER,] and Arbitration Bill, 2077

he does not give his side of the question. It necessary for such registration shall may be that the evidence is not sufficiently come into operation on the passing of strong to warrant the defendant g-oing. i~to this Act." the box, or his counsel may be of the opmwn The Act does not come into force until the that the jury are with him and that. there date is proclaimed; yet the provisions of is no necessity to put the defendnnt m ~he the Act so far as they relate to industrial box. The same thing applies in a case hke unions are to come into effect immediately this. The Minister, for some reason or the Act is passed. It seems to me that that other, did not explain the Bill when moving is more or less illegal. its second reading. Part II. of the Bill deals with the Indus­ The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : The trial Court, which is to be constituted prac­ same old drivel. tically the same as under the previous Act. It is to consist of three persons, one a judge Mr. TOZER: It is not the same old drivel, of the Supreme. Court and two others to be because it does not come from the hon. appointed by the Governor in Council. The gentleman who is interjecting. If it oame president of the Industrial Court-a judge from him, it would be; but, as it is not of the Supreme Court-is appointed from coming from him, it cannot be. I say that time to time; no definite period is set out we did not get sufficient time to gn through by the Order in Council; but the other two the Bill, which occupies fifty-three pages and m.;mbers are to be appointed for seven consists of eighty-five clauses, besides a years. They are not to be retired until schedule containing nineteen olauses. It they reach the age of seventy years. Why would take a considerable time to go is there a distinction made in regard to the thoroughly through the Bill. retiring age between this and other Bills Mr. SPEAKER: Order ! The hon. introduced by the present Government? If member is wasting a lot of time when he in other callings sixty-five years is a reason· might be discussing the Bill. The time to able age at which to retire, why is it not make such protests was when it was decided sixty-five years under this Bill? that the second reading of the Bill should The commissioners are to receive salaries be debated yesterday afternoon, and not equal to the salary of a judge of the Supreme now. Court. I consider that wrong. I can under. Mr. TOZER: I had no opportunity yes· stand that the president of the court, who terday afternoon to raise the point myself; is a judge of the Supreme Court, should therefore, I thought I was within my rights receive the salary of the latter office, but in doing so while speaking on the Bill. lf the commissioners have no legal training and I am wasting time, it is the time allotted no particular training of any kind, and are to me to speak, and it is my own lookout. simply brought from some other professional calling. There should be some distinction This Bill repeals the Industrial Concilia· between the salary of the president and the tion and Arbitration Act passed by the other two members of the court. Moon> Government. We included in that In the next place, the court is to have Act everything we considered necessary for all the powers and jurisdiction of the the purposes of conciliation and arbitration. Supreme Court 1n addition to the powers It is now considered advisable by the pre­ and jurisdiction conferred by the Bill, so sent Government to introduce a new Bill that this court, constituted by persons who altogether, practically wiping out the exist· are not judicially trained, has powers and ing Act, and restoring the provisions of the jurisdiction in excess of those of the Supreme Mbitration measures passed by the Labour Court. That is certainly wrong, and I could Government. not possibly support such a provision. The Premier certainly said that he did not expect that the Bill would do away with In the matter of evidence, the court is to be unemployment altogether, or bring about a governed by equity and good conscience; and better feeling altogether between the parties, is not to be bound by the rules or practice but he thought that it was a step in the of the Supreme Court or other courts. That right direction. I do not think that it is a is a distinct weakness. because it means that step in the right direction at the present evidence in the Industrial Court can be time. It may have been introduced to practically anything that the judge or the satisfy a certain class of people who are commissioner allows to be heard. In a under the im,pression that it will benefit matter where the powers and jurisdiction them in some way; but when the Bill comes of the Supreme Court are conferred, the into operation, I think it will be found rules of the Supreme Court as to evidence that, instead of being an advantage to the should also apply. worker and bringing about peace in industry, In Part II. of the Bill it is provided that, it will cause more unemployment. If it does in fixing rates of wages in any calling, the not bring about increased employment, it same wages shall be paid to persons of will not be satisfactory to the workers. either sex performing the same work or pro· ducing the same return of profit to their Mr. FOLEY: You are using arguments employer. That is open to argument. It which have been used over and over again. has been held that one of the reasons whv They were used when the hours of labour we have so much unemployment at the pre· were reduced from twelve to ten hours a day sent time is the employment of female in England. - labour. Some persons go so far as to say Mr. TOZER : There is a provision in the that, if we want to re-establish the normal Bill that the Act shall come into operation proportion of employment in the s.tate, we on a date to be proclaimed by the Governor should limit employment to males, except in CounDil. There is no particular objec­ so far as females were employed before the -tion to that except that it is indefinite. war brought about their increased par­ Then clause 1 of the Bill further states- ticipation in industry. This measure, on " Provided that the provisions of this the contrary, states definitely that they shall Act relating to the reg-istration of receive the same remuneration as males industrial unions and all provisions under the circumstances I have mentioned. Mr. Tozer.] 2078 Industrial Conciliation [ASSEMBLY.] and Arbitration Bill.

Later on in the Bill it is provided that fact that we must compete with the other in fixing the wages of females the standard States of the Commonwealth, where the to be considered shall be what is sufficient 43-hour week prevails. If we are to compete to enable them to support themselves in a on the basis of a 44-hour week, it means fair and average standard of comfort, hav­ that we shall be handicapped from the start. ing regard to their duties and the conditions The Premier referred to the industrial of living amongst female employees in the conditions in Japan and Java, and expressed particular calling; so that in that case it is the opinion that we did not desire to reduce not provided that they shall receive the employees in this State to the standard that same payment as males. It is, however, prevails in those places; but we have tO> provided that- compete with those countries with our pro­ " The basic wage of an adult male ducts; and, if we are to do so successfully, employee shall be not less than is suffi­ we shall have to take into consideration the cient to maintain a well-conducted conditions that prevail there. I do not employee of average health, strength, claim for one moment that our employees· and competence, and his wife and a should be reduced to what hon. members family of three children in a fair and opposite term a kanaka standard; but the average standard of comfort... " costs of production in competing countries There seems to be a conflict between that will have to be considered. This country is and the earlier provision that males and not self-sufficing; and it is necessary for the females shall receive the same remuneration. maintenance of our economic existence to The court is empowered to make declara­ compete with other countries. If they hava tions as to- different hours and rates of wages, that fact " (a) The cost of living ; must be taken into consideration when there is a suggestion to reduce the weekly work­ (b) The standard of living; ing hours in this State to forty-four. What (c) The basic wage for males and injury do the extr·a. four hours do to any females; person? They do not affect the efficiency of (d) The standard hours." the person. A person who works forty-four The main principle of the Bill, so far as hours per week can very easily work forty­ the Government are concerned, is the 44-hour eight hours per week without any great loss week. There .are at present in existence in of energy. It is simply a case of the mem­ Queensland 232 industrial awards and agree­ bers of a political party getting it into­ ments, 167 of which provide for a 44-hour their heads that they will reduce the hours week. If the other callings are now to be of labour from forty-eight to forty-four per permitted to work a 44-hour week, why not week. At one time the Labour Party were allow it to operate immediately the Act satisfied with the forty-eight hours peT" comes into force ? week; now they will only be satisfied with forty-fotJ.r. What is to stop them in the The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : future coming down to forty, and even to Are you in f,avour of the 44-hour week thirty-six or thirty hours per week? Once coming into force immediately? this legislation giving the court power to Mr. TOZER: I am against the 44-hour award forty-four hours per week in an indus­ week, and it would be better for Queens­ try is introduced, then that industry and land if the ·date of its operation were the employees in it will lose considerably extended beyond 1st July, 1933-the further more, especially if it is in competition with it is extended the better. However, the Southern competitors. ~oth Mr. McCormack Government have decided to provide for a and Mr. Theodore, Labour ex-Premiers, 44-hour week; but why wait until 1st July, drew attention to the serious effect that a 1933? The reason has been .adva-nced. that reduction in the working hours from forty­ that is the beginning of· a new financial year. eight to forty-four per week would have; It has also been stated that the immediate and both of them said it was not practicable introduction of this principle might cause economically. Notwithstanding that, the a serious dislocation of industry, and that it Government consider that the present time, is advisable to delay its operation until 1st when we .are really in a bad financial posi­ July, 1933, in the hope that the financial tion, is a suitable time to reduce the hours position may improve and the hardship of labour to forty-four per week. I remem­ consequent upon the introduction of this ber when the weekly working hours in the principle be lessened to some extent. It will mining industry at Gympie were forty-eight not be possible to conduct industry on a per week,· and when the 44-hour week was profitable basis if a 44-hour week is to be introduced. worked by employees outside the salaried Mr. COLLINS: ·when was a 48-hour week staff. In ordinary vocations the men hold­ worked in the mines .at Gym pie? ing prominent positions are working con­ Mr. TOZER: It is such a )ong time since side:robly more than forty-four hours per the hon. member for Bowen worked in a week at the present time; and, if they are mine that he does not know anything; to be reduced to a 44-hour week, it will about it. mean that they will be deprived of an opportunity to ea;rn a living. It will mean Mr. COLLJNS: The hours worked per week that a considerable number will have to be on Gympic were forty-six and forty~seven. dismissed, a.nd they will swell the unem­ At 12.36 p.m., ployment market. The CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (Mr. Hanson, It has been contended by hon. members Buranda) relieved Mr. Speaker in the chair. opposite that, if the hours are reduced, a Mr. 'l'OZER: When the mines in Gym pie· greater number of workers must be employed worked forty.four hours per week from. to do the work; but that fallacy will be bank to bank it meant a loss of one shift. exploded, and it will be found that, instead per week. In the aggregate, that was a of the adoption of the principle creating considerable loss to the companies, and it further employment, it will lead to increased was only 'a question of time, with the­ unemployment. We cannot disregard the increased costs and wages, before goldmining [Mr. Tozer. Industrial Conciliation [8 DECEMBER.] and Arbitration Bill. 2079 in Gympie, with the gold standard ut a low desired effect, because it must be recognised level, ceased altogether. that human nature cannot be controlled by The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDt:STRY : Acts of Parliarn.ent. You signed the agreement prescribing a \Vith all th0 legislation that has been 44-hour week in the mines at Gympie. introduced of recent years, are we any better off than we were before? If the 1929 Mr. TOZER: That is w. At that tim.e Act were given a fair spin, it w-ould be we discussed the matter and considered infinitely better than the measure we are that, in the interests of 'all concerned, it now discussing. During the Moore Govern­ was the best thing to do. ment's term of office we were not troubled 'l'hn SECRETARY FOR LABOt:R A)<[D INDUSTRY : with strikes. Certainly an incipient railway If yo:1 "ig11cd the agreement you are partly strike was nipped in the bud ; but, outside xesponsible for its effects. of that, reasonable conditions existed between employers and employees. Mr. TOZER: We believed when the appli­ cation for a shorter working week was made The Bill also provides for preference to that it was only a question of time when unionists. Of course, if J'OU are a worker, mining operations on Gympie would cease and you are forced to join a union, you altogether. The late Mr. W. J. Dunstan, consider it only right that the other fellow who was subsequently a member of the should also be forced to become a member; Board of Trade, was one of the union but the change from trade unionism to poli· representatives at the conference held at tical unionism has become a menace to the Gympie. He took exactly the same stand State. I have a strong objection to anyone as the late Mr. Justice Higgins and the being forced to join a union simply because, late Mr. Justice McCavyley that, if a calling if he cannot join a union, he cannot get were told that, if goldmining could not pay certain exemptions and cer•ain deductions, the standard rates, then the mine should but there are no exemption• and no deduc­ dose and permit the men to secure profit­ tions in connection with union fees. 'T'hE>y able employment elsewhere. That doctrine make everyone pay the same amount whether would be all right provided there was other they can afford it or not, and the money profitable employment for the men to engage has to be raised in some way, as these fees in; but there was no other calling to have to be paid. transfer these men to when the one they The court has exclusive jueisdic1tion, and were engaged in was wound up_ Many of there is no appeal to the Supr•1me Court. the mines ceased ooerations; and, when Certainly there is an appeal from an indus­ the miners looked ai·ound, they could not trial magistrate to the Industrial Court. In get work. It is a fact that shortly after all other matters there is an appeal to the :the mines ceased operations sewerage opera­ Supreme Court, and from the Supreme Court tions commenced in Brisbane, and many of to the Full Court, and from the Full Court the miners secu])ed employment at that to the Privy Council in certain cases. work; but once that sewerage work is Although the Industrial Court usurps the finished, where will the men be absorbod? whole jurisdiction of the Supreme Court, Furthermore, in many industries there are it is to be controlled by men who are not subsidiary callings which do not call for judicially trained; so why should there not the possession of the same qualifications on he an appeal to the Supreme Court? There the part of the men engaged therein. The must be some reason for that. Is it that the court should grant a lesser rate in those Government are afraid to give the Tight d 1tion to ployed become a burden on the State. That the court in nearly every cas£-1 ha.,-a ne>t 'is why I am opposed to the 44-hour week, heard of' an exception-the decision is in which, if introduced in the sugar industry, favour of the employee. The court most V.'ill impose a bur-den of 5s. per ton on the certainly does not lean to the employer. industry. Can the industry stand that? It That may be thQ why is all very fine to say by legislation that a does not provide an certain wage must be paid or an ·employer Industrial Court t::> Supreme will not be permitted to employ anyone; but, if that principle is extended it means The Bill also contains provisions with that the ordinary business of the' State will regard to ilidustrial unions and the registra­ be stopped, and that a considerable num.her tion of unions. These are similar to those Df men will become unemployed. As I see in the present Act. it, instead of providing employment and Part IV. deals with industrial agreem3nts. bringj:ng about a more harmonioug relatior.~.­ If we have arbitration and conciliation in ship between employer and employee this existence there can be no objection to giving :Bill will have a reverse effect. ' the empioyers and employees the right to In his introductory epeech the Minister enter into industrial agreement. ·It saves stated that the alternative to this measure them going to the court, and it saves a was the sowing of the seeds of discontent, certain amount of expense and leads to a revolution, and direct action. Before we better feeling between the employer and had arbitration and conciliation a.t all, employee if they can come to a mutual ag~e.e­ we not have these evils. Why should ment. \Vh2n they go to court, a cerwm they brought into existence now? At amount of prejudice is stirred up between different times various Governments have the respective parties, because a lot of things considered it advisable to bring about better are said which it would be far better 1-o -conditions between employers and employees, leave unsaid if there is to be an amicable but this Bill will not bring about the agreement between the parties. Mr. Tozer.] 2080 Indusflrial Conciliation [ASSEMBLY. and Arbitration Bill.

Part V. deals with Government employees trade union officials have organised the who are members of industrial unions. For workers of Australia into a sort of standing: some reason or other the Department of industrial army. Those officials have been Public Instruction is not included among assisted in their work by Labour Govern-­ the departments mentioned, and I would like ments no more than by weak anti-Labour the Minister when replying to state the Governments. Australia's industrial army reason for that exception. I do not know is in a far higher state of organisation than whether that is an oversight, or whether it is her army for defence against foreign is intended not to include employees in tho aggression. For the defence of Australia. Department of Public Instruction. Labour is content to depend upon the good­ Part VI. deals with breaches of awards will of nations of which it knows nothing, and other offences, and practically makes and from which we have little reason to­ strikes and lock-outs legal; but under the expect anything but hostility should the old Act strikes and lock-outs were declared time ever come when we have to fight to be illegal. If a union now votes in favour our own battles. Thus we have Labour of a strike or employers decide on a lock-out, hypocritically placing greater faith in race& the court can declare it to be legal. I do and nations with whom it has nothing in not think that any strike or lock-out should common than it does in the good faith be declared to be legal, as it is not right of fellow Australians. I contend that com­ that industry should be upset and injured pulsory arbitration and conciliation-surely by strikes or lock-outs. a strange array of contradictions--fosters hostility at home and condones the Labour Part VII. deals with miscellaneous view that the welfare of Australians is safer matters. I notice that sections 534 and 543 in the hands of Asiatics than in those of of the Criminal Code are repealed. There fellow Australians. It accepts the principle should be a very stro-ng case indeed to justify that our national security is of less moment the repeal of sections of the Criminal Code. than industrial conscription. The SECRETARY. FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : I do not know how many hon. member& Your 1929 Act repealed them. have considered what this militant organi­ Mr. TOZER: Section 534 of the Criminal sation of our workers-most of whom desire Code -deals with the intimidation of workmen nothing better than to earn their liveli­ and employers, and the repeal of that sec­ hood and live their lives honourably and tion practically makes it legal for any body peaceably-has cost Australia. Taking the of men to intimidate workmen and employers. average fee paid per union member as 25s. Section 543 of the Criminal Code deals with per annum, Australia's organised wage­ "other conspiracies." That section must earners in the five years prior to 1929 paid have been considered at one time to be of £5,464,451 in fees. We might hope that great importance, because it imposes a such payment would have' e1nsured them penalty of three years' imprisonment with security in :employment; but in the same hard labour for a misdemeanour under the period they lost in wages as a result of section. The idea of repealing that section industrial disputes the staggering sum of is evidently that conspiracies of bodies of £9,544,717. We thus have trade unionists men meeting together with a view to bring­ contributing in fees and lost wages an aver­ ing about a strike cannot now be declared age amount of over £3,000,000 per annum. to be conspiracieK under the Code. I object Having regard to the character of many of to that. There is no justification for the these disputes, the deliberate efforts of agita­ alteration and the legalising of these con­ tors to prevent settlement, and the wanton spiracies or strikes. calling out of men who had no conception T do not approve of the Bill, because I do of the cause for which they were striking, not think it will be in the interests of can any hon. member claim that arbitration Queensland, and it will not bring about the is a success? I say, " No." Is it not mor& conciliation which the Government desire. probable that, deprived of the facil.ities It will mean further restrictions in connec-. given by the Industrial Court for the con­ tion with industry. We should encourage centration of the workers, there would be capital to come into Queensland; but, by less control of those workers by agitators? increasing taxation and putting further Does not the Industrial Court force the restrictions on industry, we are going to workers into the power of ·union bosses, keep capital from coming here. whose one object is to raise themselves on the shoulders of the workers? Mr. DANIEL (Keppel) [12.54 p.m.]: I At 2 p.m., cannot allow this most important Bill to go through without saying a few words upon Mr. SPEAKER resumed the chair. it It will have a very great effect on Mr. DANIEL: I have sufficient faith in industries in Queensland. The failure of the moral fibre of the Australian employers compulsory arbitration to bring about peace to believe that they would welcome closer in industry is not accidental. I suggest that and more equitable induGtrial relations with such peace might be obtainable through the workers. I also have faith in their voluntary efforts. goodwill to uphold the welfare of their The first and strongest argument that I workers. We can surely establish a simple anticipate will be advanced is the capital authority before which outlawed employers that Labour would make out of the abolition can be called and dealt with; but to retain of an institution that has been associated our present fearful incubus because we fear so intimately with our industrial life for the effect of allowing the employer and the the past decade; but I do not anticipate employee to enter into closer association, or c?ntradiction when I say that such opposi­ because we consider that a small percentage tiOn would be raised by paid officials in of employers would abuse the position, is the Labour movement and not by actual like maintaining a standing army to disci­ workers. pline an occasional " drunk." I believe that Let us eonsider the position fully. By the average Australian is sufficiently removed dint of every form of coercion and pressure, from the brute to be worthy of at least [Mr. Tozer. Industrial Conciliation [8 DECEMBER.) and Arbitration Bill. the same trust that Labour places in the of official interferer with industry have alien races of the East. It is to my mind trebled in the last fifteen years. a reproach on our vaunted civilisation to The one and only question which we can think otherwise. I have no hesitation in ask ourselves in connection with this Bill is, saying that the opposite sentiment has been will it bring peace to industry and relieve detrimentally fostered by union officials, and unemployment? I say without hesitation is furthered by our compulsory conciliation that it will not do so, but, en the other hand, and arbitration laws. This is a question it will occasion more unemployment, more on which reason, and not prejudice, should speak. In this case it is mostly prejudice, misery, and further chaos in industry. and not reason, that stands in the way of the The Premier said yesterday that the Bill suspension of our Industrial Court. It does would have the effect of increasing the pur­ not mean consideration for the workers or chasing power of the workers, and thus a desire to keep industry smoothly at work bring about great prosperity. Do you think, so much as it is a prejudice in favour of a Mr. Speaker, that I believe the Premier was fetish. There is little doubt that, if I could telling the truth? I am quite prepared to · convince my opponents that the suspension say that he did not believe the sentiments he of arbitration would not detrimentally affect gave utterance to, . because, if he did so, them politically, their opposition would why is the operation of this Bill being post­ evaporate. I am convinced that it would not poned until 1st July next? If it will relieve harm them, because I firmly believe that distress and unemployment, why not bring by far the greater number of the workers it into operation to-morrow morning, and regard the Industrial Court with indifference, relieve the distress and unemployment which and that it ·does not provide for the stabili­ exist in cur midst, and give comfort to those sation of their employment. It is with people who are half starved? That is why suspicion that they regard the facilities which I do not think the Premier really believes are afforded to enable their taskmaster, one word of what he said yesterday. Why the union boss, to dominate them. does not the hon. gentleman do something I now turn to the growing burden that to remove the burden from the shoulders of arbitration and all of our meddlesome enact­ the people? Why does he not take action ments impose upon the State. These figures to relieve the burden on business men, to will give some idea of the cost of arbitra­ enable them to tackle the unemployment tion as disclosed by the subdepartmental position by providing a greater amount of costs involved:- employment for the workers? What is the reason that other States can produce and export commodities to Queens­ 1915· 1921- 1929- land? There is only· one answer, and it 16. 22. 30. in.-olves the cost of production, which is. infinitely lowe-r in the South than it is here. £ £ £ Queensland is the biggest producer of hides. Department of Labour and in Australia to-day; yet these hides are sent, Industry- to the South, and in some instances return Chief Office Nil Nil 3,177 Board of Trade and 4,586 ·1,358 8,998 to us in the shape of manufactured boots­ Arbitration for Queenslanders to wear. The reason for Inspection of Machinery, 12,256 16,659 33,~86 that is that the cost of production in the Scaffolding, and South is less than it is in Queensland. Years. Weights and ~Ieasures ago there were two boot factories and three Apprent.icts Corn- Nil 1,563 2,765 mittee and Electrical tanneries in Rockhampton. Not one exists. Workers Board and to-day because the various industrial a wards. Gss Act of 1916 are assisting the Victorian manufacturers. Labour and Factories .. 16,842 22,580 51,485 The basic wage in Victoria is £3 ls. ; in. Workers Accommodation 14,329 27,448 31,943 Queensland it is £3 14s. In those circum-­ Totals stances how can Queensland produce in com­ petition with Victoria? It is an absolute· impossibility. Goodness knows what the increase has been The Premier also said yesterday that the· from 1929-30. What is the State getting Opposition believed in oonducting their own now that it did not get in 1915-16 to justify business in their own way. I interjected, this outlay in fostering industry? Would " What is wrong with th@;.? " The Premier­ not industry be infinitely better without this proceeded to say that the Op;Josition believed costly interference, and the State be better in child labour; but no on~o knows better­ off if it kept the cost of this interference in than the hon. gentleman that such a state­ its banking account? Where is it all going to end, and what is to be the ultimate cost'! ment is untrue. 'I'hen the Premier indulged: All this costly expenditure seems to be on in those crocodile tears which are so often the ascending scale; in fact, it has now shed by Go-vernment members. It is unfor·· reached the stage when one industrial restric­ tunate that they are not honest tears ! tion requires another to h

1932--3 T Mr. Daniel.] :2082 Industrial Gonci~iation [ASSEMBLY.] and Arbitration Bill.

I can do no better at this stage than quote for the resolution, but I am not going to the following extract from the Rockhampton give them. There are men to-day who are ·" Morning Bulletin" of 25th November last­ being garnisheed for arrears of union dues " Speaking on the Bureau of Industry for three years, and they cannot get any Bill, Mr. Foley said that- help at all from the department. ' Cha-os, glut, decay, and destitution The year 1929 showed the high-water mark had resulted from the unplanned, hap­ of unionism in Queensland, with 154,799 mem­ hazardly conduct of industry.' bers. At the end of 1931, 31,577 members went out of the unions because of the sus­ "Mr. Foley is a member of a party pension of the rural award by the Moore which tried i_ts prentice hand at con­ Government, which was a good thing for ducting State enterprises, losses on which thB people of Queensland. That goes . to ran into millions. Although infested show that unionism is an excellent instrtu­ with giants of soap-box commerce and tion for union officials and Labour politicians. industry, the Labour Party has produced no man who, by his own unaided efforts I wish to quote again from the Rockhamp­ in open competition with others under ton " Bulletin "- the very conditions Labour has imposed, "On Friday last (18th November), Mr. -could run a peanut stall with any degree Maher asked the Minister for Labour -of success. YBt it has produced a Fo:By and Industry if he had- who is able to take a bird's eye view . . . received a letter of pro·

·this Bill as existed during the former period between employer and employee, the bulk that he and his colleagues were in opposi­ of the increased productivity goes towards tion. the establishment of improved machinery, From the very commencement of this the payment of increased interest charges to ·debate one.. has gained the impression that a parasitic class in the community, and by the OppositiOn do not favour any ·system the payment of increased costs for fuel etc. ·that, instead of the proportion of increased Burke. pointed out the position of the -production being relatively distributed aborigines under the control

<:>f Aborigines, and compared their condi­ a result of the change of Government. On tions with those of the average station hand that point Mr. Brigden has this to say:- in Queensland. The comparison showed that the average station hand in Queensland was " EMPLOYMENT. reduced to a level below the standard of "Unemployment Insurance Contributions, living enjoyed by the aborigines under the 82.3. protection of the Chief Protector of " An improvement of 0.3, being the Aborigines. fourth successive rise, and higher than a Taking that as an illustration, naturally year ago by 4.4 per cent." the ~ame comparison would apply in course Viewed from practically any angle, there of time to other sections of industry if the has been a general improvement in business ~thics of the Opposition were applied to conditions. If the restrictions, regarding mdustry, and all these so-called restrictions which the Leader of the Opposition and were eliminated. The open shop would pre­ other hon. members opposite are so fear­ vail as it does in the United States of ful and which they say will retard thE> America, England, and many parts of St~te, do actually reduce wages and bring Europe, and we know what the conditions about other conditions which have the effect are where that operates. It is only indus­ they say they have, it is only natural to tries in which special skill is required that suppose that their efforts while they were in are able to demand fair standards of living power, their treatment of the industrial laws where no arbitration system exists. of the State, and their handling of industry The system of browbeating and keeping in would have had some reflex in our economio subjection the workers in the past led to conditions; but, from whatever angle we the establishment of arbitration in Queens­ survey the problem, we find that there was land; and, as a result, a general improve­ a general decay during the period when ment has taken place in the conditions of the they were in charge of the affairs of the workers since the introduction of arbitra­ State. Business dropped considerably, tmtil tion. I emphasise the fact that we have the people of the State were naturally fear­ given the workers an increase in their ful of what was going to happen. Why? standard of living without any damaging For one main reason-that the application ne can use against any idea that thet•.J is to be thrashed out by the employees on any loss of confidence in the community as the one hand and the employers on the Mr. Foley.] 2086 Industrial Conciliation [ASSEMBLY.] and Arbitration Bill.

other so as to determine the relative share as it applied to countries other than Aus­ of the increased production for each class tralia. The volumes of " Hansard " of this and to determine whether it should go to Parliament for 1889 discloses that, when Sir the parasitical section-the interest-monger­ Samuel Walker Griffith intro·duced his Eight­ ing class of this State. If the interest burden hour Day Bill, similar arguments to those coulcl increase by 61 per cent. over the period used by the Opposition to-day were used by mentioned and absorb the greater part of the reactionary section of that day, who the productivity per employee, then there argued that it would have a detrimental cannot be the improvement that I desire effect on industry. When it was proposed unless some action is taken against the to reduce the twelve-hour day in England interest-mongering section of the community. to ten hours, its critics said that the pro­ Already interest rates have been reduced. posal would ruin the country. Those In other words, there has been repudiation opinions were freely expressed by the great to a certain extent on the part of the debtor reactionaries and leading economists of the section of the capitalists of this State against time. An endeavour was made to convince the creditor section; but I claim that there the workers that, if a ten-hour day were is room for still further reduction in interest introduced, the ruination of the nation would rates, if the workers are to secure a greater follow; but the result was that prers to purchase more than they have the interest question; and interest has a been able to purchase up to date. Only by very vital and direct bearing upon the posi­ a more equitable distribution of the total tion of the workers, not only in Great wealth of the world can the position be Britain but also in our own State. I main­ improved. We are pursuing the right policy tain that interest rates have been reduced by introducing a Bill of this nature. We in this country to a lesser degree than they have to r·emember, however, that we are have been in Great Britain, and that there functioning under the capitalist system of is room for a greater reduction in interest society, and that we must take all precautions rates here. to prevent a sudden collapse, which might Mr. SPEAKER: Order! That has nothing produce damaging effects on the masses of to do with an Industrial Conciliation and the people; therefore, we give the Indus­ Arbitration Bill. trial Court the power to exempt certain industries if they consider that the condi­ Mr. FOLEY: I am not allowed to deal tions of those !ndustries do not warrant with the ·details of the Bill at this stage. the application of the 44-hour week. If The principle underlying arbitration is the hon. members opposite were fair, they would bringing into existence of certain industrial at least give the Government credit for conditions which will protect the conditions that. of the average working man, and, as a Generally speaking, I welcome the Bill as result of affording that protection and other a step in the right direction. From it 1 facilities provided from the point of view hope will eventuate a gradual improvement of labour, to improve his conditions, if pos. in business and a gradual raising of the sible. I am endeavouring t0 point out that, standard of living and comfort of the notwithstanding that great improvement• average worker of the State. have been brought about in the past through our efforts in this direction, we are still Mr. R. M. KING (Logan) [3.12 p.m.]: I handicapped by outside economic influences, appreciate the difficulty the Minister found which must be overcome if we wish to make himself in when he came to move- any great strides. " That the Bill be now read a second I wish to touch now on another important time." •principle of the Bill which has relation to Apparently the hon. gentleman found him­ tt reduction in the working hours. Consider­ self in much the same difficulty as members able objection has been raised from the of'the Opposition-that he had not mastered Opposition benches to this proposal ; but I the Bill. The measure had been considered well remember reading certain works on the by caucus the previous ev·ening, and, question of a reduction in the working hours although the Premier had the Bill in his rMr. Foley. Industrial Conciliation [8 DECEMBER.] and Arbitration Bill. 2087 despatch box for a number of weeks the for the worker with little heed as to the Minister concerned evidently did not know economic consequences or the plight of the what its contents were, and had to ask the employer. I would not for a moment cast Premier to make a second reading speech any reflection on the jndges of the Indus­ for him. In all the circumstances I appre­ trial Court. I would be more inclined to ciate the Minister's difficulty. pay a meod of praise to the different jndges who have been connected with the Industrial The Premier made a speech yesterday at Court. First of all, we had Mr. Justice which I must express regret, because it was Macnaughton-a man who was indispensable an appeal to passion, prejudice, and mob and who did very good work. Then we psychology rather than to the higher ideals had Mr. Justice McCawley, a man whose of life. Of course, from a soap-box point early demise was deeply regretted. He did of view, the hon. gentleman's effort was a excellent work in the Arbitration Conrt. notable one; but, from the aspect of an explanation of the principles of the Bill, Mr. W. T. KING: Your party objected to the speech was a failure. I deplore the his appointment. attitude adopted by the Premier •on that Mr. R. M. KING: No; the only objec­ occasion. His attitude did not give evidence tion taken to Mr. Justice McOawley was of great mental capacity, nor did it show against his elevation to the Supreme Court the hon. gentleman in the dignified role bench on account of professional inexperi­ that the Premier of this State should play. ence; and that objection was raised by the He seemed to take delight in going right bar; but I say without hesitation that Mr. back to the dark ages and talking about Justice McOawley was an ornament to the the exploitation of child labour; and he Industrial Court bench, and no one ever sought to put upon the shoulders of this reproached him in regard thereto. party all the sins of what he called our predecessors. It is easy enough to say Mr. W. T. KING: He was an ornament that. It appears to be the stock-in-trade to the Supreme Court bench, too. of the Premier and hon. members on the Mr. R. M. KING: He made an excel• Government side to put all the ills that lent Supreme Court jndge, as I have said. flesh is heir to and all the suffering that He made an intense study of industrial con­ humanity has to put up with unon the ditions, and brought that experience to bear ~boulders of this party and thoce viho were in connection with matters which came In control of Governments before the before him as a jndge of the Arbitration Labour Party came into being. Conrt. The Labonr Government, during their Unfortunately, however-and I am not fourteen years of office, passed many mea­ blaming the meh who were appointed-other sures which were of public benefit. I appointees to the conrt were taken from have said that frequently; but they passed callings which made them temperamentally those measures because of the evolution of unfitted for the positions they occupied. I thought. They were not initiated by the am referring more particularly to the late Government. They were the outcome of M'r. Gillies, the late Mr. Dnnstan, and to advanced thought and natural evolution Mr. Ferry who is at present on the bench. and th~ Government simply went on th~ Unfortunately there is a feeling that the flood tide and passed measures that any court is a partisan tribunal, and that we Government in power at the time would cannot get from it the justice we would have passed.. Let me say a)so that they like. I am trying to refrain from reflecting passed certam Acts of Parhament which in any way on those appointments. will be a lasting detriment to the State and from the effects of which it will tak~ Mr. KENNY : The Government are con­ generations to recover. tinuing the appointment of Mr. Ferry. The Premier and Government members Mr. R. M. KING: I know that. We could are very prone to ascribe all the sins of the have put him out of the position, bnt we past to this party. They wonld go back to did not do so. We had a great respect the time of Adam, if they could and blame for contracts which existed. this party for original sin. They claim to Mr. KENNY: If I had my way, I would be the party that will regain Paradise have put him out long ago. He is only a and ~hey say that vye are the party that time server. lost Jt. I am remmded of the lines of Milton- Mr. SPEAKER: Order ! I mnst draw the attention of the hon. member for Cook " Of man's first disobedience and the to the fact that reflections on the judiciary fruit either of the Industrial Conrt or the Supreme Of that forbidden tree, whose mortal Court are very much ont of order. I hope taste that in future no one in this Chamber will Brought death into the world and all cast any reflection upon any member of our woe." any judicial bench in this State. They would blame ns for the disobedience Mr. KENNY: He is not a jndge, he is only of Adam and Eve, if they could. a time-server. I have always believed in arbitration· but I want to have arbitration, and I do not Mr. SPEAKER: If the hon. member does w~nt a partial ~nd~strial Court. I say not regard my advice in this matter, I shall Without any hesitatiOn that since 1916 have to take very drastic action to deal measctres introduced by the Labour Govern­ with him. ment dealing with arbitration were con­ Mr. R. M. KING: The Minister, when ceived and bred in an atmosphere of partisanship, class-consciousness, and poli­ speaking on the initiation of tlre Bill, said tical Labour sentiments. That is the cause that it was in the interests of employers ()f our trouble at the present time. The as well as employees. He can now prove main object seems to be to do everything his bona fides by seeing that, when the Mr. R. M. King.] 2088 Industrial Conciliation [ASSEMBLY.] and .Arbitration Bill.

Industrial Court ~bench is appointed, the Mr. R. M. KING: I will tell the hon. . appointments will not be confined to one gentleman why. The present Act was passed section and to safeguarding the interests of by the Moore Go~ernment with a fuJl realisa­ one section, and that a representative will tion of the functiOns of an Industrial Court be appointed to represent the employers. and how it should exercise them. There was The SEGRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY: nothing in it detrimental to the people. Full consideration will be given to all The Bill which we are discussing is one interests concerned. of the most drastic ever put before any Par­ liament in the worid ; and I say quite Mr. R. M. KING: We know. quite well advisedly that it is not in the best interests that in the past consideration has not been of the worker. given to these things; and, when the Minis­ We hear a lot about the standard of living ter gives his assurance that all interests and maintaining it, although, unfortunately, will be considered, we are rather apt to take very many men have no standard of living it with a grain of salt. We shall realise in at all. It is all very well to say that we wish due course whether he will stand to his to mainta-in our standard of living. That is word in that particular or not. all right for those who have jobs; but what Personally, I believe that we should have of those unfortunates who have none? They only one Arbitration Court throughout Aus­ have no standard of living. I have no hesi­ tralia. tation in saying that the Bill will make it The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY: more difficult than ever to find employment That would mean unification. for men who are out of work. The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : ·Mr. R. M. KING: I do not believe in Why? unification; but I believe that the Common­ wealth Arbitration Court could deal effec­ Mr. R. M. KING: Because the conditions tively with the industrial matters of all the are so drastic that industry will be ham­ States. It would save a tremendous lot of pered and employment will not be available. overlapping, jealousy, heart-burning, pin­ A very large number of workers are oqt of pricking, and so forth, which bring about employment purely by reason of the depres­ the industrial unrest from which we fre­ sion; and no additional employment will be quently suffer. At the present time we have provided by the passage of this Bill. It in one State .a certain class of employees will have the opposite effect. It naturally under a Federal arbitration award. In follows that, if additional burdens are another State we find a similar class of imposed upon the employing class, wholesale employees under a State award. That would dismissals must result. The Bill applies to be avoided if we had one Arbitration Court domestic servants, and I am very much for the whole of Australia, taking into con­ afraid that it will act very detrimentally sideration the diversity of conditions which towards a number of young married women exist in the different States and making any who are employing domestic servants to-day. adjustments in industrial conditions which I express the sincere hope that it will not may be necessary to put everybody on the have that detrimental effect. We should all same footing. I venture to say that such like to see the maximum number of workers a system would meet with general approval. engaged in legitimate work; but I am afraid U we had one Arbitration Court for the that, upon the passage of this Bill, very whole of the Commonwealth, I venture to many domestic servants will find themselves say we would save a tremendous amount of out of employment. heart-burning. At present the State award in one State may be less favourable to one The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : of the parties than the Federal award in Domestic servants are excluded. another State, and, of course, those who Mr. R. M. KING: Twenty domestic ser­ have the big end of the stick do not want vants can apply for an award, and the to be interfered with. On the other hand, Minister can, of his own motion, apply to the workers in the State which have the the court for an award. less favourable conditions are dissatisfied, and it is not a very difficult thing to create The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : an interstate dispute and apply for a Federal I thought that you were referring to the a ward. In order to a void all that sort of hours. thing, it would be far better to have one Mr. R. M. KING: Yes. Federal court to deal with all industrial matters, making such suggestions as might The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : be necessary to deal equitably with the dif­ There is no limitation of hours for domestic ferent States and the different portions of servants. States. Mr. R. M. KING: My impression is that I say very definitely that the Act which is there is. being repealed was passed by the Moore The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : Government with a very full realisation of No. the duties and obligations of an Industrial Court. It was not hampered by restrictions Mr. R. M. KING: The principle of a on the court such as we find in the Bill 44-hour week was considered by this House we are now discussing. It gave practically in 1924, when it was introduced by the unfettered discretion to the Industrial Court previous Labour Government. The Bill con­ to deal with every industrial matte·r on its cerned provided that the 44-hour week should merits; and nobody could ask for a fairer not come into operation forthwith, but that court than that. Why should any Govern­ it should operate from a later date. An ment attempt to dictate to an Industrial amendment was moved by the Opposition to Court as to the limits of its powers and provide that it should operate forthwith, what it should or should not do? but every member of the Labour Govern· ment voted against the amendment. The, The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : Act· of 1924 also contained a proviso dealing Why did ·you exclude certain industries? with the 48-hour week, and that proviso is [Mr. R. M. King. Industrial Conciliation (8 DECEMBER.) and Arbitration Bill. 2089 included in this Bill. With the principle of 1929 ! That is exactly the procedure followed a 44-hour week, it is only a question of in that Act, while the Government a•re now history repeating itself. Evidently the adopting the procedure which Mr. Th,eodoro Ministry is being pushed by cer~ain. membe~s condemned in such outspoken language. of the party who desire to mst1tute th1s Mr. Theodore further stated in the course principle. I propose to refer to the actiOn of a speech in this House in 1924- of those hon. members of the Labour Govern­ " The Labour Party has stood for a ment who voted against the amendm!"nt 44-hour week-we have had it in our pro­ moved by the Opposition in 1924 ~o brmg gramme for four yea•rs at least-but there the principle into operation forthwith. are difficulties in the way of its imme­ The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : diate enactment. That is why last year Are you going to move a similar amend­ I explained at a, mass meeting of the ment now? representatives of the unions at the Trades Hall why the Government could Mr. R. M. KING: No. The hon. gentle­ not legislate last session for a 44-hour man does not know what may happen. :week in the way i1~ which it wa.s advo­ Hon. members will find that, when this cated-which I took to be not merely a amendment for the immediate enactment of reduction in hours of those who were the 44-hour week came before this House in working more than a 44-hour week, but 1924, the following members now sitting a reduction of four hours from the weekly behind the Government voted against it :­ hours of all workers. An all-round reduc­ Messrs. Bedford, Bruce, Bulcock, Collins, tion of four hours a week in one State Cooper, Dash, Foley, Gledson, Hanson, Hynes, would na.turally react detrimentally on our Larcombe, and Mullan, while Messrs. Conroy, industries so far as they :were in competi­ Wellington, and Stopfmd paired. When tion with the industries in other Stat.es, the amendment was defeated, the following and we have very carefully to consichr further amendment was moved:- the economic results of the proposed " Provided further that a greater reform. It is true that the same con­ number of hours than above limited (but siderations exist to-day, but in studying not exceeding forty-eight hours per week) the question more closely, and regarding may be fixed by award if the court it as not merely a question of a reduc­ certifies that in order to prevent un­ tion of four hours a week all round, but employment arising from the discontinu­ the establishment of a maximum of 44 ance of or serious retrenchment in an hours a week by the operation of the important industrial undertaking a Arbitration Court, the change is not so greater number of hours should be serious, and strangely enough, affects worked in the calling--" more Government employees than it does outside employees. A great many of the That part of the amendment is included in running staff in the Traffic Branch of this Bill- the Railway Department, nurses, and " For the purposes of this proviso an warders, and employees of that kind, are important industrial unde'ftaking shall be working more than 44 hours now. Those deemed to be an industrial undertaki,,g persons have a legitimate claim to (whether in one or more ownerships) •reduced hours, but the financial position employing or within twelve months likely has to be considered in effecting the to employ not less than fifty persons," change. It has been estimated· that to That amendment was defeated. 'The mem­ apply a maximum 44-hour week to Go­ bers whose names I have quoted who did vernment employees would mean an extra not support the immediate introduction nf expenditure of about £110,000 a year in the 44-hour week are now members of the the Railway Department alone, and in Gov·ernment Party. It seems to be a habit the other departments anothe·r £40,000 or with the Government, when dealing with £50,000 a year. The raising of that extra. the 44-hour week, to enact the principle and £150,000 or £160,000 in this financial year postpone its introduction. In 1924 the opera­ :would be a serious matter." tion of the 44-hour week was postponed until If it was a serious matter then, how much 1st July, 1925; on this occasion its opera­ more serious is it now when we are in the tion is being postponed until 1st July, 1933. throes of a terrific financial depression? Mr. Theodore, who was Premier in 1924, in That does not concern the Government, who the course of an address before the Trades are only concerned in an effort to placate and Labour Council in Brisbane, said- those who placed them in power by giving "There is no royal road to an industrial effect to the policy of a 44-hour week. What millennium. We have to weigh exactly does it matter to them how the State suffers the effect of every piece of legislation we so long as they do not lose votes ? It is pass; therefore, the passing of a statu­ extraordinary how, when personal interests tory forty-four hours would have been very clash with interests that should be safe­ unwise. If they knocked off four hours, guarded in the interests of the State, the they would get less production, and that personal interests are regarded as para­ :W9,uld bring about the ooonomic 0ome- mount. . 'quences that he had mentioned. It i·; not The Premier is apt to use such phrases as good policy by legislation to hamper or "eallous disregard for the workers " and interfere with the free exercise by thu "outlawing the workers." I cannot help Arbitration Court of its duty. The admiring the hon. gentleman as he rolls his Legislature is not the instrument to effect tongue r·ound these phrases for the benefit of the House; but what the hon. gentleman this kind of •reform. If it were, there forgets is that Labour Governments in the would be no need for Arbitration Courts." past took similar action to that taken by the How t-rue that is, and how truly do those Moore Government. Objection has been remarks bea,r out the underlying ideas of the taken by hon. members opposite and by cer· Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act tain members of the public outside that the introduced by the Moore Government in Moore Government removed public servants Mr. R. M. King.] 2090 Industrial Conciliation [ASSEMBLY.] and Arbitration Bill.

from the jurisdiction of the Industrial Court. the basic wage to public servants from £4 The ex-Premier of the State recognised that, 5s. to £4 per week. That is fully recorded in the best interests of the State, he must in the " Industrial Gazette" of September, subscribe to the Premiers' Plan, which 1922. There was a. return presented to Par­ involved a 20 per cent. re.duction in the liament on 30th September, 1922, showing the controllable expenditure of the State. The deflation between January, 1921, and Janu­ ex-Premier had to deal with the public ser­ ary, 1922, which showed that 1,120 employees vants, and it was not likely that he would were dismissed, effecting a saving of £240,872 submit the matter to any tribunal. The per annum, and 4,247 employees were made State was the employer; and the fairest and the subject of pooling at a saving of £66,000 best way to deal with the matter was to per annum, showing that a total of 5,367 remove the public servants from the juris­ employees were deflated for a total saving diction of the Industrial Court and to make of £306,872 per annum. I want hon. mem­ a reduction in accordance with the Premiers' bers to note that this reduction of the basic Plan. 'f'he Moore Government had to take wage and the deflation of the public servants the responsibility, and the ex-Premier was happened when wool, butter, cheese and not afraid to take that responsibility. It other commodities sent overseas were SO per may have been responsible for the loss of cent. higher in price than they are at the votes to the. Country-Nationalist-Progressive present time, and when there had been only Party, which resulted in the ·defeat of the one comparatively small decline in revenue Moore Government; but what does that of less than £300,000 as against an annual matter so long as the ex-Premier and his decline of nearly £1,000,000 per annum suf­ Government conscientiously pursued the fered by the Moore Government. These are proper course ? The loss of office is nothing matters that should be taken into considera­ compared to the sense of having done one's tion when members of the Government duty. accuse the Moore Government of callous disregard of the public servants. Mr. WAT·ERS: He is sore. I would like to say a word now in con­ Mr. R. M. KING : Like every other mem­ nection with preference to unionists. ber of the Opposition, the ex-Premier is sore that the efforts made by the Moore Govern­ Mr. WATERS: You have preference in your ment to place the ship of State on an even profession. keel were frustrated by people who lacked Mr. R. M. KING: Yes, but we qualify a realisation of the position and placed in and_ pass an examination and pay for it. power a Government that would and did It 1s not everybody who can qualify for promise everything. my profession. I am certain that the hon. The Labour Government made provision member for Kelvin Grove never could. in " The Industrial Arbitration Act of 1916 " Mr. SPEAKER: Order! for the exclusion of certain callings by giving the Industrial Court power by Order in Coun­ Mr .. R. M. KING: We have a very in­ cil to declare that any person or class of terestmg account of preference to unionists persons should be exempted from the opera- given in Mr. C. A. Bernays's work " Qlleens­ / tions of the Act. land Politics." An Industrial Arbitration Let us take some of the actions of the Bill was passed in 1916 by the Labour Go­ Government during the boom years, when the v!"rnment and sent to the Legislative Coun­ Labour Government took advantage of this ~nl. The . preference to unionists provision power and excluded certain sections of the 111 that Blll was cut out by the Council and public service from the jurisdiction of the the Bill in its emasculated form was' sent court. During the period 1917-1920, and back to the Assembly, which, rather than again, in the period 1921-1924, officers in lose the Bill, accepted the position for the receipt of £300 a year and over were time being, after a free conference was excluded from the Arbitration Court. The appointed to go into the matter. The Legis­ extraordinary thing is that the embargo was lative Council passed a resolution on 20th lifted just prior to the election in 1920. That July, 1917, adhering to their reasons on the was an electioneering stunt. Then, from time grounds, inter alia that- to time, the automatic increases prescribed " The Government being the Govern­ under the awards and agreements were not ment for all classes of the community granted in respect of certain public servants. ~hould d_eal impartially with all classes, In the year 1916-17 automatic increases were 1rrespect1Ye of whether any citizen not given to thooe in receipt of over £200 belongs to any organisation or not." per annum. In the year 1917-18 automatic increases were not granted to those in That reason stands as good to-day as it receipt of over £300 per annum. In the stood then, and that is one of the objections year 1918-19 automatic increases were not we have to preference to unionists. It werit granted to those in receipt of over £500 per on- annum. In the year 1919-20 automatic " This Council desires to support the increases were not granted to those in receipt three democratic principles of equality of £600 per annum, and in the year 1920-21 of opportunity, the right to work, and automatic increases were not granted to those the right to live, as applicable to an in receipt of over £500 per annum. That citizens in the State." was another electioneering stunt, because we find that all increases were paid in the There we have a pronouncement that we election year, 1920-21. They took away on this side of the House stand for equality advantages which had accrued to members of of opportunity, the right to work, and the the public service in certain years, and, when right to live, which preference to unionists the election year came round, they were denies. Further- restored. That was a sop to get the votes " Preference should be given to merit of the public servants. and efficiency ratht:lr than to mere. Then the Government petitioned the court membership of any organisation, whether in August, 1922, to secure a reduction of industrial or political, secret or public." [Mr. R.ll1. King. Industrial Conciliation [8 DECEMBER.] arul Arbitration Bill. 2091

There you have the reasons set out by the date in the Labour interests. The year in Legislative Council which are equally as which he was elected he brought forward strong and applicable to-day as they were a motion in this Chamber dealing with the then, and which are really the arguments hours of labour, and moved an amendment on which the Opposition base their case to a motion then before the House in which against preference to unionists. he asked that arrangements be made for There is one thing I desire to say in an 8-hour day in Queensland. I refer to connection with the closing remarks of the Mr. Thomas Glassey, who was elected for hon. member for Normanby who took Bundanba in that year. In 1889 a Bill special satisfaction to himself and the im­ was introduced by the late Sir Samuel provement of the position as shown by the Griffith, which has been touched upon by 4 the hon. member for Normanby, and which ' Economic News." practically made provision for an 8-hour Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. mem­ day_ Yet we say in these times that we ber has exhausted the time allowed him have advanced a long way! under the Standing Orders. The hon. member for Logan said that a Mr. GLEDSON (Ipswich) [3.53 p.m.]: I 44-hour week in one State would place that am very sorry that we have to bring the State at a disadvantage in comparison with Bill in as the -.result of something that other States. If we paid much regard to an happened in May, 1929. If it had not been argument of that kind, we would never get for that accidental happening, we would not anywhere at all. The argument of the have been considering to-day the reimposi­ Opposition is that because things may be tion of a 44-hour week, but would be con­ worse in some respects in New South Wales sidering what every Parliament in the world Victoria, South Australia, or Western Aus~ ought to be dealing with-the reduction of tralia, we should make no advancement the hours of labour commensurate with the here; that, because a proposal would put amount of work required to be done in the us a little ahead of some other State or world. We are not able to do that, how­ country we should keep our workers in ever, because we have to go back and undo the rut. the damage caused by the 1929• election, The Bill is a comprehensive measure, and which brought about the repeal of the legis­ deals with many matters ,apart from hours. lation passed by Labour during its period It restores to the workers of Queensland of office from 1916 to 1925 in connection that measure of protection which was filched with industrial matters. from them in 1929 by the Moore Govern­ The hon. member for Logan said that we ment. Most hon. members opposite have had accused the Moore Government of the dealt with the ~mportant principle of pre­ outlawry of certain people in the State. ference to umomsts. The hon. member for That is Phat we accused them of-outlawing Keppel and the hon. member for Logan the public servants and others who obtain contended that it was wrong to provide for their living from public funds, and refus­ such a principle in this Bill. They claimed ing them civil rights. This repeal of the that there should be an equal opportunity Act passed by the Moore Government in for all workers to earn a livelihood and 1929 does more than that. It takes away that everyone should have the right to' work certain restrictions and removes the out­ and the right to live. How many people lawry of a number of the workers of Queens­ have the right to work and the right to land who were deprived, not only of the live to-day under our present system? Tne advantages of a 44-hour week but also of November issue of "Economic News" points other conditions which had been built up out that t~e approximate number of people for them by years of strenuous work. employed m Queensland to-day is 123 663 Mr. RussELL: On other people's money. whilst the approximate number of u~em: ployed is 49,534, or in other words there Mr. GLEDSON : I do not know how it is is one unemployed person to every t~vo and that we have men coming to this House a-half men employed in industry. If the who wish to go back to the dark ages. present methods are continued, the position The hon. member for Cook, for instance, Will become worse. 'l'he greater the appli­ opposes the 44-hour week and conditions in ?atwn of scienc.e to industry, with its industry that were practically in operation mcreased productiOn, the greater the number 500 years ago. It makes those of us who of unemployed. If it had not been for the have been in this movement in all branches happening in 1929-, we would probably not of industry in this State for many years have been called upon to-day to alleviate wonder where we are getting to and whether a positiOn under which there is one unem­ we are not deteriorating. Such hon. ployed person to every two and a-half members elaim that they know everything. persons who are employed. Mr. KENNY: Now we are getting our Mr. BRAND: You did not do much when education. you were in the position of Secretary for Mr. GLEDSON: I hope that the hon. Labour and Industry. member will be educated, and that it will Mr. GLEDSON : If the hon. member had do some good by improving his attitude listen_cd to the hon. member for Logan, he towards this Bill. For the edification of the would have heard him say that attempts hon. member for Hamilton, I intend to deal were made by the Labour Government to with some of the matters included in this do quite a lot of things. He pointed out Bill which affect not only the workers but that a Legislative Council was in existence also every other section of the community. ·during the greater part of the time we were I can go back to the time of the 1888 election, in office. when the miners in my district put their hands in their pockets and contributed Mr. BRAND: Not during your term as money for the purpose of running a candi- Secretary for Labour and Industry. Mr. Gledson.] 2092 Indu8trial Conciliation [ASSEMBLY.] and Arbitration Bill.

Mr. GLEDSON: The Legislative Council is only one condition that was whittled awav. offered considerable hindrance to the legis­ Employees in outside industries who had lative and administrative programme of access to the Industrial Court did not have· the Labour Government. their annual leave disturbed, notwithstanding Mr. MAXWELL: You would say anything that they might have been rationed. That: was a principle which was upheld not only Mr. GLEDSON: All my statements are by the Queensland court but by the Com­ true, and they can be substantiated. If monwealth court. A recent judgment by the hon. member for Toowong can say the Mr. Justice Beeby in the Commonwealth same of his statements, he will be doing Arbitration Court confirmed the principle something worth while. that rationed employees were entitled to Boiled down, what are conciliation and the full holidays set out in the a wards under arbitration? The Premier very aptly which they were working. pointed out that three parties are concerned During the term of office of the Moore­ with conciliation and arbitration. They are Government breaches of awards were ram· the employer, the employee, and the general pant; and it was well known that carters­ public. In Queensland and in Australia we and other workers were compelled to work have adopted an arbitration system, and the excessive hours, sometimes extending into judges who are appointed to constitute the the night. When they complained and asked Industrial Court represent the general public. for overtime, they were told that, if they They act as intermediaries between the did not keep quiet, some other persons would parties, and are the means of settling be found to take their place. That was the disputes. condition of affairs brought about by the­ .Let us go back a number of years to 1906. legislation passed by the Moore Government. As far as I can remember, the first voluntary Yet hon. members opposite prate about their wages board was created in Queensland that desir~e to give freedom to the people and year. It did not have any legal standing. the opportunity to carry out their work in The creation of that wages board enabled e. proper way ! round-table conferences to be held to deal The hon. member for Toowong waxed with matters in dispute in industry. I was indignant at the method of introducing this­ a member of that wages board, the chairman Bi11, which he stated was being rushed of which was the lata Mr. J. W. Hethering­ through without hon. members being given ton. It sat in Ipswich for two years. It a full opportunity of discussing it. When dealt with disputes, and did very good work. the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration In 1908 a Bill was passed through this House Bill was introduced by the Moore Govern­ which adopted wages boards as a system for ment in 1929, the hon. member for Toowong the fixation of wages and conditions in indus­ was a Temporary Chairman of Committees. try. I sat on one of those boards in Bris­ It was while he was in the chair that you, bane, and the hon. member for Hamilton Mr. Speaker, protested against the manner presided as chairman. We sat for many in which that Bill was being rushed through, years together doing work in connection with some fifty or sixty clauses being passed with­ arbitration matters until wages boards were out any discussion. Of course, hon. members· abolished by the adoption of the principle opposite would endeavour to forget that, but of arbitration in 1912. In that year the the records of this House, which clearly show Industrial Peace Act was passed. The pass­ their conduct on that ocasion, cannot be ing of that Act adopted compulsory arbitra­ expunged. tion to a certain degree, together with Hon. members opposite allege that arbitra­ amendments. It prohibited certain officials tion in industrial matters does infinite harm. of unions from having anything to do with What they forget is that the principle of th<' matter before the court in the capacity arbitration has been successfully put into of advocates, or of sitting on a Conciliation practice in other spheres. For example, we Board. That Act was amended in 1916. have judges and magistrates to sit in arbi­ when there was adopted what a number of tration upon civil disputes. It is only when hon. members in this House have been the question of the welfare of the workers­ pleased to term the best s~·stem of arbitra­ is concerned-when the hours, wages, and tion that has ever been adopted anywhere conditions of the workers are being improved in the world. It was a system which gave --that members of the party opposite r,eject everyone a fair chance of dealing with indus­ arbitration and contend that such matters trial matters in which they were concerned, should be left to the employer and the and particularly in relation to hours, wages, employee to deal with. Their idea is that and conditions. the law of supply and demand should We can now pass along until 1929, when operate in the employment of labour, so that, the Moore Government nmendcd the arbi­ if necessary, workers may be employed on tration laws on the statute-book in vital as low wages as possible. The same attitude­ particulars. They also repealed a number prevailed in thE> days when Robert Burns of provisions, and, by Orders in Council, was on earth. I can do no better than quote­ industrially outlawed certain sections of our that poet- workers. Government employees were re­ " See yonder pcor, o'erlabour'd \vight, moved from the ambit of the court, and So abject, mean, and vile, were immediately harassed. Certain of, their Who begs a brother of the earth privileges were taken away, and some of To give him leave ·to toil; these were not restored until Labour was And see his lordly fellow-worm returned to power last June. The Moore The poor petition spurn, Government not only rationed the employees Unmindful, though a weeping wife in the public se-::vice, but they also adopted Ahd helpl'ess offspring mourn. the system of rationing the holidays. Em­ "If I'm design'd yon lordling's slave­ ployees who were working only half time and By nature's law design'd- were entitled to a fortnight's holiday per Why was an independent wish annum were only granted one week. That E'er planted in my mind?" ~J1r. Glcdson. Industrial Conciliation [8 DECEMBER.] and Arbitration Bill. 2093:

What Burns found in his day applies to­ stage and dealt with the broad principles day. Hon. members opposite thmk that only he enabled us to understand exactly th,;_ the lords of creation should have a say in objects of the Bill. I need not draw your· the fixing of the workers' conditions. They attention, Mr. Speaker, to the contrast ask, "Why should you have a right to shown on this oocasion. The Secretary for· appoint a union organiser? Why should you Labour and Industry simply got up and have a right to appoint men from the ranks moved the second reading, and threw it on of the workers to the Industrial Court, as the table, so to speak, and told us to make· that should be the prerogative of the the best of it. employers? That should be the prerogative We hear from time to time a generar of the lords of creation." The man most fitted to deal with industrial problems is murmur on the part of the people against' the man who has worked for his living-the the extreme extent to which the party system man who knows what it is to toil from morn is carried by the present Government. till night for a pittance. Can they point in passing legislation. So far as Par-· to any worker appointed to a position by liament is concerned, ·there really is no· the Labour Government who has not carried discussion on the merits or demerits of a out his duties faithfully and well according to measure. The provisions of the Bill are· his lights, and who has not given everyone decided in caucus beforehand, and the Bill a fair and square go in connection with these is then brought into the House and Opposi-· matters? The men who have gone through tion members are told to make the best of the mill are the best fitted to carry out the it or leave it. work of the Industrial Court because they We realise that in the present state of give their decisions on knowledge, and not affairs the test which we should apply to• only on the evidence placed before them. measures of this kind is what they are· This Bill also makes provision for the fixa­ g_oing to do for the State-not for any par­ tion of prices. That is a natural corollary ticular class or sectiOn of the community, to the fixation of wages. If you have wage but for Queensland as a whole. I do not. fixing and the cost of living soars up to think there is a greater evil than the view such a height that it nullifies the effect of which has been expressed by hon. members. that wage, the workers lose all benefit so opposite that one class of the community far as their wages are concerned. As power has interests opposed to those of another· is given in this Bill for fixing prices, the class. I think we all realise that we are in. whole of the matters affecting the position a difficult position. Our return to prosperity can be taken into consideration, so that the depends upon the restoration of our indus-· workers will get that measure of relief which tries. Our ability to employ within reason­ they are entitled to get. Lately price-fixing able limits every man and woman in the­ has not been operating so much because, community is affected by legislation of this' owing to the depression, the workers have nature, and I am going to deal with the· no money to buy commodities, and competi­ matter from that point of view. tion has kept prices down to bedrock. We quite realise that every section o£ the· The Leader of the Opposition objected community has its rights, and it is the duty most strenuously to the provision in the Bill o·f the Government to see that the require to give protection to the waterside workers. ment~ of each section are prop~lrly adjusted; Why has he raised that objection? Have but It seems to me that this measure is the waterside workers not the same right to unduly one-sided and is likely to do a great; protection as any other section of the people deal of injury. of Queensland, and, if a special provision Various arguments have bee.n advanced by· is necessary to deal with special work on hon. members opposite as to the need for the· the waterfront, is iil not a right and proper measure, and as to what it is going to do. thing that the protection which the workers Those of us who have had experience realise· have the right to expect from a Labour the evil of industrial strife and the loss to Government should be embodied in this Bill? the community brought about by direct action. It has been urged by hon. members. I do not propose to take up any further opposite that this measure is going to make time beyond saying that I am glad the Bill for industrial peace. I am sorry that the· has been introduced. and I hope the Govern­ facts do not bear that out. 1'he party now ment will be able to do some good as a m power have had the misfortune to be in result of the passing of this measure, and power before, and they cannot complain if give protection to the workers, especially a comparison is made with what happened. those who were outlawed by the Act passed when they held the reins of office before by the Moore Government in 1929. and put into effect a similar policy to that Mr. SWAYNE (,"'firani) [4.20 p.m.]: I which they now propose. Let us look at. would like to say first of all that, during some of the results of direct action and ask the years I have been in this House, I have ourselves whether such measures as this are never seen an important measure like this, likely to prevent it and its consequences. which will affect the whole of our industrial I have here som~ figures showing the· life, introduced in such a ma1mer as this industrial disputes between 1920 and 1930. was, and without Parliament being given I think the first industrial legislation of: any explanation of the objects ·of the Bill. this type which the Ryan Government. It is said that comparisons are odious; passed came into force in 1916, so that by· but I cannot help making one comparison 1920 we should have been seeing its effects. in respect of a man with whom I have In spite of all the powers of the Arbitration. nothing in common-Mr. Theodore. We Court and the class privileges that were­ always said when in opposition that when­ given by hon. members opposite, industriaL ever Mr. Theodore introduced a measure he peace was not achieved. Hon. members knew his Bill. When we commenced the by a. perus~l of. this table, can judge ho~ discussion of a Bill at the second reading the mdustnal disputes during the term of lllr. Swayne.] 2094 Industrial Conciliation [ASSEMBLY.] and Arbitration Bill.

that Labour Government compared with Moore Government, so far as I have been those which occurred during the term of the able to get the figures:-

Number of Work People involved. Number of Working days Estimated loss Year. Disputes. lost. of wages. Directly. Indirectly.

£ 1930 .. 10 1,561 70 9,881 11,059 1929 .. 4 1,691 3 3,443 3,379 1928 .. 12 2,950 670 70,754 62,008 1927 .. 30 29,594 640 428,135 325,884 1926 .. 29 2,054 391 30,118 27,412 1925 .. 22 20,432 840 219,826 164,480 1924 .. 25 2,889 246 47,214 42,018 1923 .. 25 2,724 340 55,131 53,081 1922 .. 38 2,611 620 36,730 32,589 1921 .. 33 3,367 1,512 95,560 69,793 1920 .. 55 3,775 2,033 68,298 44,934

At 4.30 p.m., o::ha.sing po:wer. We have a small population The CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (Mr. Hanson, m Australia, and we have not arrived at a Buranda) relieved Mr. Speaker in the chair. stage where we are self-contained and our local markets absorb the fruits of our indus­ Mr. SWA YNE : It has been claimed that try. We have to depend upon the markets of the Bill will restore industrial peace; and tJ::e. world. No matter how much we ma.y it has also been stated that the Bill re-enacts dislike the fact it forever stands before us the industrial conditions that prevailed that we must ?epend upon our ability to sell during the period to which the figures I our products m the markets of the world in have quoted refer. Can hon. members oppo­ open competition with other countries. Can site say that it was a period of industrial we say that the unions have helped us in that peace when in one year alone over £325,000 regard? They have not. I have two recent was lost in wages through direct action? instances in this respect. We all know what A monopoly of any sort is bad, whether a se~ious posi£ion our cattle and sheepmen it be a monopoly in the form of a big are m and. how important it is that they company, or of individuals, or an aggrega­ should receiVe the utmost value for their tion of small concerns. I can appreciate products. We recently read of the slaughter­ the argument in favour of preference to :nen at the abattoirs in Melbourne indulging unionists. I think that I can claim to be m a go-slow strike in the slaughtering of one of the pioneers i•n the organisation of lambs, and how the export of lambs was the farmers; and I can remember feeling held up in consequence. Those slaughter­ very sore because some of the farmers would men took advantage of the monopoly that not contribute to the cost of the organisation. preference to unionists gave them and acted Many members in our ranks realised that to the detriment of the whole State more preference in our case was impossible but particularly the primary producers. They it was discussed. I always pointed out' that ha~ a court to. appeal to to rectify any it was sometimes better to choose the less gnevance they might have had. Last month of two evils, and that a monopolv would we found th~t the slaughtermen at the open the door to tyranny, which would be S·ydney abattoirs resorted to wholesale sabot­ a greater evil. I pointed out that prefer­ age. Again our export trade and our sales ence, which would constitute a monopoly, abroad, upon which we are so dependent would lead to very dangerous consequences. to pay tl::re wages of these men were inter­ If we study the industrial history of Aus­ fered with. The men ignored the fact that !ralia, whether in the Federal sphere or they had a right to appeal to the Federal m the State arena, it will be found that in Arbitration Court. The men preferred to the past dangerous and serious consequences take the law into their own hands and thus resulted from monopolies. We well remember take advantage of the monopoly that pre­ that our waterside workers and the seamen ference gave them. They abused that have held up the traffic on our coast; and we monopoly to the detriment of the whole well remember how, through it transport count>:Y· Such a :q>atter_ requires the closest costs were u>:necessarily increased 'and p&ssed attentiOn and consideratiOn before the privi­ on to the primary producers. An additional lege of preference is granted. I can quote bu:rden was thereby imposed upon the hundreds of instances in which pr'lfl:>~ence pn:nary pr'=!duce10s by the adoption of direct to u:nionists has been a bused. VV'ir'' "have actiOn.. It Is c!aimed that. the Bill will pre­ ?efi:ni~e proof tha_t the granting of preference vent direct actiOn; but to me it seems that IS InJUrious to mdustry. I know that in me':sur·es like these offer an incentive to direct saying so I an_I blasting the l::ropes of hon. actio>:, beca_u~e they place power in the hands members opposite. of umon officials to exercise monopolistic con­ .I reme:r:nber when _the ~rst Trade Disputes trol. This power is always abused. Bill was rt;ttroduced m this Chamber in 1907. At that time the late Mr. David Bowman We are in a very serious financial position. was then a member of this Legislature. I We are prone to talk much about our stan­ shall always h:mour his name in my memory. dard of _living; but this country is not Although I did not agree with him politic­ self-contamed and we cannot live by buying ally, I believe that he was a thoroughly and selling to one another alone. If that sincer\' ~nd honest man. I can remember were so there might be something in the h1m sittmg on the Opposition benches when argument about the standard of living and the late Dr. Kidston, the then Premier !here miglrt be some justification for in~reas­ introduced the Bill. Mr. Bowman got up mg wages so as to create an increased pur- and said that the Bill would put a stop to [Mr. Swayne. Industrial Conciliation [8 DECEM.BER.] and .Arbitration Bill. 2095 all direct action. In the course of this Anyone reading that might say that. debate I have heard hon. members opposite is all right; but the trouble is that, if -young men witb more enthusiasm than the employer commits the slightest derelic­ experience-get up and opine that this legis­ tion of duty, he is hauled up and dealt lation will prevent direct action. I have with; but, if the workers do anything that definitely proved that preference does not they should not do, no action is taken. In prevent direct action. That being the case, 1918, as reported on page 3010 of " Han­ those who receive this very great privilege, sard " of that year, I asked the then and who are granted this monopoly, should Secretary for Public Works if the provisions. give proof that they will use it wisely and of section 65 of the Act had been complied not abuse their power to the injury of the with in regard to the strike at Mount: community as a whole. The whole of the Carbine, and the answer I received was, ·evidence before us shows that unionists "No." abuse the privilege of preference. Then the strikers at the sanitary works. This sweeping legislation bringing about a in Townsville did not comply with the pro­ 44-hour week will make industry in some visions of the Act. The same thing occurred sections impossible. Consider, for a moment, in regard to the strike at Babinda. the position of the sugar industry. Both the A little while ago I pointed out how Premier and the Secretary for Public Lands useless this measure will be to prevent represent sugar constituencies, and they must strikes. I find that in 1919 there was a realise that the industry is faced ·with a reduc­ strike at Babinda against an award. tion of £4 13s. 4d. per ton in the value 'The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : of the product. Proof can be adduced that You induced the farmers at Mackay to­ there is no room for any reduction in prices; strike against the Dickson award. :yet, by this measure, the Government will Impose an additional burden on the indus­ Mr. SWAYNE: There is absolutely n

elsewhere in the Commonwealth. When Members of the Opposition are very fear-­ Mr. Moore took office" and vastly im­ ful lest the industrialist should have proved the arbitration scheme the value recourse to the Industrial Court to get of production per capita in Queensland decisions under certain clauses of the Act was" £5 lls. 2d. below the average in with respect to hours, conditions, and wages. other States. In two years a revolution That is something which they should be occurred. Queensland's average rising pleased to see. If a registered organisation to £9 8s. 3d. abo-ve that of the rest of such as the Australian Workers' Union, the Australia, making a net improvement of Federated Ironwmkers' Union, the Amalga·· just £15 per head in favour of Queens­ mated Engineering Union, and others, is land as compared with other States." prepared to accept the benefits o.f an arbi­ That alone should satisfy us that during tration law by registering under it, it is the term of the Mooro Government every evidence that it is prepared to use the encouragement was given to investors to methods which it provides before using the come here, and that their policy reacted to weapon of direct action. the common good. During the last day or two hon. members The crux of the question is as to our opposite have endeavoured toprove that the ability to sell our products in the markets worker is the only direct actionist · in of the world. We sell the greater part of industry. In reply I can only say that the our products abroad. If we paid £20 a week recent attitude of the employers of New in the sugar industry, would that increase South Wales in connection with the election the price we receive for sugar? No matter campaign proved that they were prepared to what the pastoralists paid, it would not use greater direct actionist methods than increase the price of wool. What they can anything yet attempted by any body of pay to those who work for them and the workers. I refer to the enclosure in the conditions they can give depend upon what pay envelopes of the workers in factories· people outside Queensland can pay for their of Sydney and other industrial towns of wool. Unless we can control prices in other that State of a slip containing advice to the countries where we sell our goods it is no effect that, if Mr. Lang was returned on the use talking about a rise in prices. following day, they need not come to work I quite agree with what has been said on the Monday of the next week. If that about the advent of machinery and so on; is not direct action, I know nothing of direct but for the small community of 6,000,000 or actionist methods. 7,000,000 people in Australia depending on Another instance runs through my mind the world's prices in connection with the when an employers' union took direct action. sale of our products, if we increase the cost That was the occasion when the Broken Hill of production so that we canno-t sell, we Proprietary Company, the most influential shall be beaten in every market available and wealthy mining company in the Southern and practically be committing suicide. hemisphere, adopted direct action on two Judging from the standpoint I first took occasions. The company blocked the gates up at the beginning of my remarks, that is, of· its works at Newcastle and its mine at " What is the Bill going to do for Queens­ Broken Hill, and offered to open them only land in the way of restoring prosperity and if the employees were prepared to accept bringing about employment?" I say that is the reduced wages offered hy the directorate. going to have directly the reverse effect. I was one of the employees locked out. I To apply the 44-hour week to some of our have had more than one experience of the primary industries just now is simply mad­ direct actionist methods of unscrupulous ness. I believe that some of the workers employers. 'The employees do not have in our inJustries themselves realise the posi­ recourse to direct action unless they are tion. It is quite natural for a man to absolutely forced into that position. In stand cut for his wages, but I have no time most cases they are driven te adopt those for the man who will ruin the industry by tactics because of a cut in wages, an in­ which he lives for the sake of a few minutes crease in hours, or something of a similar a ·day. nature. Mr. G. C. TAYLOR (Enoggera) [4.56 The hon. member for Keppel complained p.m.]: I rise to support t.he second reading that our production costs would not allow of this Bill, not because I believe that it Queensland industries to be successfully con­ will achieve the millennium by the appli­ ducted; and he "lxpressed the fear that the cation of such remedies to the industrial costs would be _,normously increased by the chaos which exists to-day, but because it introduction of this Bill. He painted a is a wonderful improvement on the arbitra­ picture of distress and dismay, and went so tion of the last three years. I, therefore, far as to suggest that this State would be congratulate the Minister on his Bill. lifted from the chaotic conditions that would The policy of arbitration is one to which exist upon the passage of this measure if t.he Australian Labour Party and this a 15th century Cromwell were permitted to Government are pledged. It has been lead an army of neolithic men in this State. applied to industrial matters in the State Production costs are not influenced entirely of Queensland and throughout the Common­ by increased wages or shorter hours. They wealth for a reasonably long period; but it are vitally affected by the type of machinery cannot be said that it has achieved all that employed in the industries concerned. its creators desired for it. This Bill has It is regrettable to note that employers in been designed in a .time of depression, industry, in many cases in Australia and in industrial chaos, and economic decay such Queensland, have not developed that finer as has never occurred previously in the sense of industrial advancement that is history of the world since the dawn of exhibited by employers in other countries civilisation. Australia is suffering from her of the world, where an endeavour is always share of this disorder, and, as a consequence, made to secure the most scientific machinery the Minister has designed his Bill on lines for purposes of production. The applica­ calculated to meet the exigencies of the tion of modern machinery necessarily implies occasion. a reduction in production costs. [Mr. Swayne. Industrial Conciliation (8 DECEMBER.] and Arbitration Bill 2097

'\'he hon. member for Toowong stated that against them. The records of the Depart­ there was a decline in business in this State, ment of Labour and Industry conclusively and pointed to a number of businesses that prove my statement. Hon. members oppo­ ha-re become insolvent. He said, ·in effect, site nullified the activities of the court by tha\ that state of affairs was due entirely to excising certain sections in their Act, and by the policy of the Labour Government. The permitting Orders in Council to be issued bminesses of the companies concerned which operated against the payment of ruling declined-not because of the operation of wages and decent conditions. an Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Mr. RusSELL: What are• yol]. alluding to? Act-not because of the conditions observed 'Or of tne wages paid in industry, but mainly Mr. G. C. TAYLOR: To the question of because in times of plenty certain circum­ any person in the community being called stances naturally prevailed and stock was upon to work at any rate of wages the watered to such an extent that businesses employer chooses to pay. were over-capitalised. When a depression 'OCcurs these companies are the first to go Mr. MAHER: No Bill can stop that. to the wall. So far as the A.G.B. is con­ Mr. G. C. TAYLOR: It can be stopped. <'erned, Mr. Byerley is a very shrewd busi­ Under this Bill preference is given to union­ ness man. That fact was exemplified in the ists, and the unionists who go to work will recent bankruptcy proceedings. He has been see that they get paid the rate of wage very careful in the application of business prescribed by the court. methods to his company's operations. It will be noticed that in dealing with the It is evident that hon. members opposite people who controlled his business, as it are getting genuinely frightened at the exist­ were-that is the financial institutions- ing state of affairs. There has been nothing but a moan of distress all the afternoon Mr. NIMMO: He got very good assistance from those hon. members opposite who have from them. risen to oppose the Bill. They are suffering Mr. G. C. TAYLOR: The moment that it from a Cromwellian psychology of the middle was apparent that the financial institutions ages. No other thing can be expected from were going to close on him, and he had to followers of the Nationalist Party. Theirs go to the wall, he very carefully set about is not the only type· of psychology which protecting his main business. The liquida­ exists, and thro.ugh which expresfion of tor has only taken into consideration the views is given on these subjects. I have an branch businesses. extract here from the "Business Week," a Many of the companies operating in journal of business news and interpretation Queensland and Australia, and in fact the pq.blished in New York. In an editorial world over, are doing so in a " snide " man­ article entitled ''Action," this is what that ner. They have no assets at all. During the business man's paper has to say of the exist­ past fortnight I had occasion to investigate ing condition of affairs- the case of some women who were employed " Nothing the individual business con­ by a company in Brisbane over a period of cern, community, or citizen can now do three or four months. This company allowed for themselves can bring recovery save their wages to fall into arrears from £21 to through a prolonged process of liquida­ £25 each employee. There was no money tion, loss, hardship, in which only the forthcoming when the time came for this strongest survive·. Wage cuts, drastic ·Company to pay these wages. I made appli­ individual or business economy, curtail­ cation to the registrar of joint stock com­ ment of public expen

in any wa,y to a 48-hour week. The lengthen­ In 1904 it required 1,291 man hour~ to ing of the working hours a,dds to the pro­ build a motor car ; in 1929 only 92 nan duction; and if twenty men can produce in hours were used in the construction o: a. six months, ,v'orking forty-eight hours a week, similar motor car. a given quantity of produce that will fill up Mr. MAHER: You would not have a car the storerooms in the factories in which they but for that. work, it may be necessary for us to consider the question of very definitely reducing the Mr. G. C. TAYLOR: In 19DO it reqwred working hours in that industry to forty per seventeen man hours to produce a toll of week in order that these men may be steel; under the improved scientific methods employed for a longer period than six months of pro·duction it now only required lhirteen in the year. man hours. Mr. MAHER: You want the farmers to That goes to show that it is time for careful work eighty hours a week to give yo~ forty consideration to be given to the question hours a week in the cities. of hours of employment for the worker. If the methods introduced by scientists into Mr. G. C. TAYLOR: To-day the farmer industry and adopted by the magnates of is not working eighty hours a week to give big business in their manufacturing activi­ us anything. He is working overtime to-day ties can, reduce the time limit of production trying to find markets for his produce, and to that extent working an 8-hour

l\lr. G. C. TAYLOR: We had the results a good deal of sweating going on in that of the war to contend with when we were State. No decent man wants to g·o back to the Government· and now we and the people those conditions. It is idle for the Premier <:>f Queensland a~e suffering from the results to recount the troubles in the days of Lord of three years of administration by hon. Shaftesbury, when child labour was employed members opposite. in the mines. Let us go back 200 years before There is just one other matter .on. v:'hich that time, when conditions were infinitely I wish to touch-the right of the mdlvidu~l worse. The world is improving from year to to secure the best price he can for . his year, and, with the growth of education, labour. That has been one of the max1ms the urge of every man to better his condition Alfred Deakin was one of the members of a Federations, and, because t.he in4ustrial~y commission appointed to inquire into the <:>rganised workers succeeded m gettmg thmr sweating evil in those early days. The 'Jom­ pound of flesh from the Shylocks, the Shy­ mission was appointed in 1884 by tlie Vic­ locks got together into a strong federation torian Government. This was one of its and got at the employee. This caused the recommendations- workers in turn tQ band themselves together " That the most effective mode d in stronger bonds of. union, ~o that t.he bringing about industrial co-operation unions became federalised. Th1s gave nse and mutual sympathy between employer to better organisation, and arbitration thus and employed and thus obviate labour became one of the planks of the platform conflicts in the future is by the establish­ <:>£ the Labour Party. ment of courts of conciliation, whole At 5.27 p.m., procedure and wages shall have the Mr. SPEAKER resumed the chair. sanction and authority of law." Mr. G. C. TAYLOR: I can well remem­ That was probably the start of the agitation, ber having to get information for the first and in Queensland l\lr. Griflith, afterwards Sir Samuel Griflith, introduced a Bill in big case of the Aus~rali?-n Workers: Union 1890 to deal with the industrial unrest that in the Federal ArbitratiOn Court m 1907. existed in this State. The judgment then o~tained has been. the basis of many of the Judgments of Arbitra­ Some of us remember the shearers' strike, tions Courts .since; ·and to-day we say that which caused a great deal of loss and suffer­ we are prepared to give eB;ect to the J?riJ?-­ ing. It is no use going into the merits or ciple of arbitration at all t1mes where 1t 1s demerits of that strike now; but something possible to do so, and to give the whole of had to be done in those early days to. stop the workers of Queensland access ~o the the industrial conflicts that went on from Industrial Court; but we reserve the nght to time to time. I agree with the Premier that allow them to have recourse to other methods it is the duty of the community to bring when unscrupulous employers wish to lock about industrial peace, and to stop the recur­ them out when the decision goes against ring industrial conflicts which only brin<>· those employers. loss and disaster in their train. Then Charle~ Cameron Kingston came on the scene. He Mr. RUSSELL (Hamilton) [5.29 p.m.]: I was probably the forerunner of all our arbi­ want to say at once that hon. memb~rs. ·on tration legislation, and in New Zealand they this side are not opposed to the prmmple had William .Pember Ree.ve, who introduced of unionism. I believe that every man should the first Arbitration Bill in the Southern join a union for his own protection. I hemisphere. This Bill was the foundation of would like to remind the hon. member for the other arbitratiOn measures that followed. Enoggera that the principle of arbitration At tha:t time it was felt by those engaged was not established by men in the Labo';'r in busmess that, for their salvation and for Party at all but by men who were not m the preservation of law and order, and even the Labour 'Party. The Premier said that for the benefit of the workers themselves the issue on this occasion was, " Arbitration some more civilised method of settling thes~ or no arbitration," but that is not the issue disputes should be resorted to than the at all. The issue is whether the view taken b.arbarous weapon of the strike. An agita­ of arbitration in this Bill which has been tiOn arose, backed up by the employing introduced by the Secretary for LaLour and olass and some of the leading legislators of Industry is the correct view of arbitration. the day, for the institution of a method that We say that it is not. I believe that the would take the place of the strike. So the authors of arbitration would turn in their agitation went on from year to y88/r despite graves to behold the system of arbitration as the opposition of the unions. As ~ matter we see it in this measure. of fact, the unions were strongly opposed to The demand for arbitration ·arose in the any system of arbitration, feeling that by €arly 'nineties. The sweating evil was par­ surrendering the weapon of the strike they ticularly pronounced in Victoria. That placed themselves in a worse position than State had become the centre of manufac­ they were in at that time. They desired tories, and there is no doubt that there was to retain the weapon of the strike in order lJilr. Russell.] 2100 Industrial Conciliation [ASSEMBLY.] and Arbitration Bill. to enforce their demands. So it was with The first Arbitration Bill in Queensland great reluctance that labour unions and was introduced in the Kidston regime in Labour statesmen eventually ca.me into the 1908. This was followed by another Bill i~ fold a.nd advocated the ca.use of arbitra.tion. 1912 under the Denham regime. Although Mr. Watson, one time Lea.der of the Federa.l we have been accused of being the descen­ Labour Party, said in 1903 that tw<;llve years dants of those employers who starved the before that date he had been opposed to children in the mines-which is utterly arbitration. This is what he said- absurd-the parties to which we have been " It seemed to me that .the strong class supposed to be attached are those which bias which prevailed in the Legislature foresaw the necessity for the introduction of of those days, and bea·ring in my mind this humane legislation. As political parties that that bias was to some extent reflected have risen and fallen, Arbitration Acts have in appointments to the judicial bench it been enacted. In 1929 the Moore Adminis­ was not a wise thins- for us when we had tration introduced a Bill, which to 8ome some chance of wmning by means of extent amended the Industrial Arbitration the strike to hand over to a body in Acts of 1916 and 1925. which we were unrepresented the power The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY: to determine all industrial troubles Destroyed them. which arose. Further, I had doubt at Mr. RUSSELL: It is nonsensical to say that time as to how we could ensure that the Moore Administration destroyed that a strike could terminate with the the principle of arbitration. That statement pronouncement of a judicia.! decision." is fallacious in the extreme. The principle " The first inkling which we got of of arbitration was not interfered with by the unsatisfactory way was a proposal the Moore Government. We have strayed to make union funds responsible." from the path of genuine arbitration which I merely mention these facts to show that was put before us by the stalwarts of the at the initiation of our arbitration measures "nineties." Their idea was to estabhsh the people behind them were not attached to a system whereby the parties could settle the Labour Party. Wise men foresaw that a dispute without the terrific costs whwh we could not continue the barbarous strike now accompany it. The system of arbitra­ method, and allow strikes to continue which tion to-day has built up an army of parasites caused endless suffering to innocent people. -paid advocates, union delegates, secre­ Strikes should be the last resort, because, taries, and all sorts of hangers-on. We while men are inflamed with the apparent have two systems of arbitration in Australia justice of their claims, they do not recognise -the Federal system and the State system that the biggest sufferers are people who -working side by side and overlapping, with are not immediately concerned in the dis­ an enormous horde of people hanging on. pute. Everyone should bend his energies There is no necessity for two arbitration to prevent strikes in our community. That systems in Australia. I do not think that is why the system of arbitration was those who origina,ted the idea of arbitration resolved upon. In the early days it was conceived for one moment that we would thought that by appointing Boards of Con­ build up in Australia two elaborate systems ciliation and bringing the two parties to working side by side and in conflict the one the dispute together, presided over by an with the other. The workers have played independent chairman, some means of set­ battledore and shuttlecock with the two tling the dispute would be devised. As systems for many years. years went by it was found that that system The Premier said that the Brnce Govern­ was not satisfactory, and compulsory arbi­ ment endeavoured to destroy arbitration. tration was resorted to. That is the law That is not correct. What they tried to do to-day. was to tra,nsfer all arbitration to the States, The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : as it was impossible to get any settlement There is nothing wrong with that system. between the two conflicting authorities. Sooner or later the people of Australia will Mr. RUSSELL: I am not saying any­ get sick and tired of the dual system of thing against it. I have always been a arbitration. We have two courts which are strong advocate of compulsory arbitration. carried on at great expense to the commu­ Anjl' method should be resorted to rather nity. We have two basic wages operating than allow a continuation of strikes. It is' in Queensland-one Federal and one State. not the people who are in the strike who How long are we to put up with this ridicu­ suffer the most, but the people who are not lous position? It is time the people of directly 'interested. Australia got some sense in the matter, and One has only to remember the great water­ decided to have one system only. With the side strike, when thousands of innocent object, firstly, of saving expense, and, people who were not concerned in the imme­ secondly, of preventing the using of one diate cause of the dispute were caused end­ court against the other, the Bruce· Govern­ less suffering. The people who indulge in ment decided that they would transfer an disputes of that sort make themselves the powers of industrial legislation to the States, enemies of the community; and we should because the people of Australia at successive see to it that the rest of the community is referenda had declined to allow the Com­ not brought into the dispute. That can monwealth Government to have sole control only be done by forcing the people directly of arbitration. We know that for purely interested in the dis:tJute to come together political reasons the Queensland Labour and accept the verdict of an independent Party opposed handing over complete power judge. While there are many defects in in the sphere of industrial arbitration tO> our system, still, broadly speaking, it would the Commonwealth Government. Personally, be unwise to make any change in the system I think the controlling authority should be of compulsory arbitration that obtains to-day. the Commonwealth, so that the States can W•e may -differ as to methods, but there is bring their industrial laws into conformity, no other alternative to the strike· than com­ so that the basic wage can be regulated on pulsory arbitration. the one basis, so that the wages pa,id in [ 2ffr. Russell. Industrial Conciliation [8 DECEMBER.] and Arbitration Bill, 2101 industry in one State shall be on the same in Australia. The waterside men in Bris­ plane as the wages paid in the same industry bane and Mackay struck against the award, in another State, and so that uniform hours while the men in Sydney did not strike. of labour may obtain, thus ensuring fair They were satisfied with the conditions. competition between the States. Surely that In that ~ward it will be found that no is the right course to pursue [ It behovt;s alteration was made in the rates of pay all those who wish to eliminate a lot of thts whatever, and the main cause of complaint expense, and to secure uniform conditions was a paltry question of picking up places; throughout Australia, to bring abC!ut ~he ·and these men foolishly, under coercion by establishment of one system of arbttratwn militant unionists, struck against an award and one Arbitration Court in the Common­ which gave them very fine rates of pay and wealth. 'l'hat would mete out even justice threw in their jobs. The transport system to every State, and would ~emove t_he po~si­ of Australia is too important to be allowed bility of one State competmg nnfatrly wtth to be played with by the waterside workers. another. It is. a public service; and, if the waterside ' Mr. GAIR: Do you believe in unification? workers are not prepared to carry on this service, other people should be allowed to Mr. RUSSELL: No; but I would advo­ do so. The men who volunteered to carry cate the unification of industrial conditions. on that great work are just as good workers The SEcRgTARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : as the unionists. There was peace on the You believe in one Commonwealth Arbitra­ waterfront while the volunteers were work­ tion Court because the Commonwealth basic ~ng, and now lthe Minister 'talks about wage is not as high as ours. victimisation. There never was victimisation. These men threw in their jobs. Some of Mr. RUSSELL: That is not the reason. them got back; but I deny the right of the In any case, there is no reason why our basic Government to interfere between the wage should be higher than the Common­ employers and employees on the waterside. wealth basic wage. I am prepared to take These men threw in their jobs, and they the Commonwealth basic wage, whether it have to put up with the consequences. The is higher or lower than ours. That basic safety and comfort of the public must be wage is based on the cost of living, combined put before the consideration of any class. with the principle of the capacity to pay­ These men declar.ed war on the community, two main factors in determining the· posi­ and they must put up with the consequences. tion. It is the height of stupidity to fix a We must conserve the rights of those men basic wage for a man, wife, and three chil­ who stepped into the breach and did their dren. We ·are paying for tho11sands of wives work well. The men who struck are getting and children who do not exist. The proper back by degrees, and I am sure that the system is to have a wage based on the men themselves, if questioned, .would admit amount of labour performed; and it should their folly; but I deny the right of the be the duty of the Commonwealth or the Government to grant special consideration State to pay extra by way of endowment to to a body o.f men who put themselves beyond wives and children. That seems to be a the. pale. If they had any justification for long way from accomplishment. striking, the public would have been with I consider that many faults have developed them; but public opinion was against them. while we have been working under the They received no sympathy throughout industrial laws of the Commonwealth and Australia. the State. I hav.e already alluded to the The Moore Government, in their amend­ overlapping that takes place between the ing legislation, did honestly attempt to Commonwealth and the States. That is create a system slightly different from that something that must be eliminated. We established under the previous legislation. must have a uniform system; and that can We considered that the Industrial Arbitra­ only be brought about by a Commonwealth tion Act of the Labour Government only Arbitration Court. We have a tremendous resulted in putting employers and employees complexity of awards, and in some indus­ in two hostile camps. tries the employees are working under many Let us examine the procedure that takes awards. Take the metal industry. Why place in the court when a claim is put in should the metal manufacturers hav.e to by a union for consideration. The union, work under ten or twenty awards when one as a, matter of policy, will put in a most award would be sufficient? That should be extravagant claim. We have only to look attended to. But there is no power in the at the last log presented by the Federated court to do that. W:e go on in the same Clerks' Union in New South Wales, which stupid old way. was absurd in the extreme. The other side We know that breaches of awards have probably is encouraged to do likewise, and taken place in the past, and that employees makes an offer which is equally absurd. So have gone scot free on every occasion, while the two sections go to the court to try to the employers are so terrorised that they wring out of the court the greatest privileges. dare not break an award. As the hon. That is not our conception of arbitration member for Enoggera stated, the employers at all-to create two hostile armies who fight are afraid to break awards whereas awards for privileges and advantages. We .decided are broken with impunity by employees. that, rather than perpetuate this system, What punishment has ever been meted to we would try to bring both sides together men who struck against awards? to get more comity between them and encou­ Something has been. said about the rage the growth of co-operative or profit­ Waterside Workers' Federation, and a sharing schemes. We recognise the right special clause has been put in the Bill to of- every man to better his condition, and, deal with the alleged victimisation of these despite our friends opposite, who in season men. The Minister knows very well that and out of season advocate their socialistic these men struck against an award of the ideas, we believe that the remedy for the court. Their claims were considered, and unrest in industry to-day is to give men Judge Beeby issued his famous award to greater interest in their work; and that can govern the whole of the waterside conditions be done only under a system of co-operation. Mr. Russell.] 2102 Industrial Conciliation [ASSEMBLY.] and Arbitration Bill.

That was the principle of the Moore Govern­ Mr. RUSSELL: That has been the weak­ ment's Act, although it was not availed of ness of some of the arbitration measures to any great extent. Still, in the long run, of the Labour Governments in which they we must come to that. We must recognise have fixed the hours of labour instead of that unrest exists to-day, and see to it that in leaving the matter to the court. all our schemes a fair share shall be given Mr. Theodore many years ago denied the to the worker; that the claims of capital right of Parliament to fix wages. He pre­ and management shall be acknowledged, and ferred to leave it to the court. What then that the worker engaged in industry shall h.as changed the views of ·our friends' oppo: have some greater inducement than to work site to lea-d them to say that Parliament all his life on a small wage and eventually should fix the hours at forty-four per week? become dependent on the State. We want Are they not again truckling to outside to see to it that every section gets its fair opinion? Yesterday the Premier when he share of the fruits of industry. That was the was referring to his speech at M,{ckay said basis of our Act-to bring about round-table conferences of those engaged in an industry in his extravagant rhetoric that he' had and leave them to make their own agree­ promised the people that the 44-hour week ments with regard to hours, wages, and con­ would be one of the essential features of the ditions. We left it to industry to settle their Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act. own troubles; but the court was here to see We believe in the principle of arbitration. that no man was unduly exploited, and the We want to leave this question to the court unscrupulous employer and unscrupulous no matter how it is constituted-what hour~ employee could be brought to book. That shall be fi.x!ld, what wages shall be paid, was our idea ; but that principle was not what conditiOns shall .apply generally-and given a fair trial. I think the Government have overstepped their province when they dictate to the court Moreover, we desired to abolish the as to the number of hours that shall be domination of political unionism. While worked in any industry. under unionism men can combine together to secure advantages to themselves, we object I object also to the restriction· of the right to the intrusion of political affairs into of appeal from the court. Here we have a unionism. My objection is to the conscrip­ cou,rt composed of a judge and probably tion of labour into a political army to be two laymen, who are to decide questions of used at election t,;me as a fighting force by law, and against whose decision there is to a political party. We know that the man be no appeal. The supreme judicial autho­ who dares to express an independent opinion rity in this State is the Supreme Court of in a union is ostracised and, as a rule, keeps Queensland; and I think it is an interfer­ away from the meetings. Our friends oppo­ CJClCe with. the liberty of the subject to deny site say that employers' unions are anti­ him the right to appeal to that court against Labour ; but they comprise only a vary small a decision of the Industrial Court. Surely portion of the community. The workers are every citizen should be allowed to appeal in the majority, and the idea of our friends against the decision of what is a minor court opposite is to conscript workers into the in comparison with the Supreme Court ! The unions to be used as a political weapon only appeal from a decision of the coll,rt is. at every election; and that is what we object t? itself. To my mind, that is a very one­ to. sided and lopsided proposition. We have drifted away from the objective It is unwise to introduce such extreme of conciliation and arbitration, which is, to legislation just at this time. Hon. members bring about more unity between employers orwosite talk about the enormous production and employees. We have only to turn to the ?f ;"'hich industry is capable, and argue that speech delivered by the late Mr. T. J. It IS unnecessary for the workers to work Ryan, whom hon. members opposite claim long hou~s in o~der to get the same results to have been one of our leading statesmen. as they did previously; but to-day the prices Mr. Ryan stated- of our commodities are falling, and the " Substantial suooess is more likely to money th.at pays the wages of our workers accrue from the encouragement of a fur­ and provides the fund from which to meet ther measure of conciliation and the the cost of a reduction of hours grows less establishment of better relations between and less month by month. To-day the price the employers and the employees than of best Australian butter on the London in adopting coercive measures toward market is 9d. per lb. wholesale. How can either party." the producer carry on at that price? He has That shows that in those days we had Labour to wo!k hi~ industry despite these low prices; leaders who were imbued with the true :'nd, m spite of the enormous decline in the principles of arbitration from which we have mcome of the people, the Government pro­ strayed away; and this Bill is not going to pose to expand the privileges of the worker I would like to know where the funds ar~ mend matters. to come from with which to pay them. The Bill provides that there shall be a 44-hour week. I deny the right of Parlia­ The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY · ment to dictate to the court the conditions The middleman is taking more than his fai~ that shall apply to industry. The court is share. there to arbitrate between the sections which ~r. RUSSELL: H.e is taking what he is apply to it for protection. Everything con­ entitled t?. The middleman's profit is a nected with industrial relations should be ~ogy. This talk on the part of the Minister left to the court to determine-not only wages IS nonsense, because the middleman is paid and hours of labour. What right has for his services whatever they may be and Parliament to tell the court that there shall the Income Tax Department will see 'to it be a 44-hour week in industry? Are the that he gets very little out of it at the end Government not prepared to trust the court of the year. With this enormous decline in as to what hours should be fixed? !ncome, I:ow can we pay the extra money The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY: mvolved m a 44-hour week? It is said that You were not. it will cost the Government over £100,000. [JJfr. Russell. Industrial Conciliation [8 DECEMBER,] and Arbitration Bill. 2103

They have budgeted for a deficit; and, when consequences. We cannot have a system the position in every department of govern­ whereby any organisation can flout the law. ment is difficult and it is hard to make ends I was rather amused to hear the hon. meet, how are we to find the extra £100,000 member for Rockhampton and the hon. mem­ to pay Government employees alone? ber for Normanby continually refer to the The Government say that they will defer Golden Age of Labour during the years the operation of the 44-hour week -qntil 1st 1914 to 1928, when everything was booming, .July next. That is exactly the same excuse when we had buoyant revenues, when there that they made some years ago when they was practically no unemployment, and when put through a similar measure. wages were high. This was all put down I cannot understand the attitude of the to Labour rule; but they forgot one essen­ Premier, considering that Labour leaders, tial feature-that throughout the whole realising the position, have Bndeavoured to period the artificial prosperity was created prevent the imposition of the 44-hour week not by· our own means but by means of in all industries. It is evident to me that other people's money. We are having to pressure is being exerted upon the Premier pay the piper to-day. Despite all that from outside to coerce him into agreeing to apparent prosperity the figures cited by the this proposition. If times were prosperous, hon. member for Rockhampton do not stand I would certainly concur in the 44-hour week, investigation. He endeavoured to prove to and Bven in a 40-hour week if we could this House that through the rule of Labour afford it. I have quoted the ~pinion of Mr. during those years the savings bank deposits T . .J .. Ryan in 1'915, but he was evidently in Queensland had increased to an enormous over-ridden afterwards. Speaking in 1925, extent; but the true test in regard to that Mr. Theodore said- matter is, What were the deposits per head of the population? I showed a few days " It was more desirable to accomplish ago, and I say it again, that Queensland such a reform as a 44-hour week through makes the worst showing in this respect of the Arbitration Court. It was not good all the States in the Commonwealth-admit­ policy to legislate to hamper or inter­ ting that Queensland went through three fere with the free exercise by the Arbi­ years of unexampled prosperity. I will take tration Court of its duty. I say that the 1928, which was ·one the most prosperous legislature is not the instrument to years under Labour rule, to show the savings effect the reform. If it were, there bank deposits per head of population in the would be no need for arbitration at all." various States of the Commonwealth- I think we can concur in the opinion expressed by Mr. Theodore. Addressing the £ 8. d. Australian Railway Union in March, 1925, New South Wales 33 13 9 Mr. McCormack said- Victoria 39 6 10 Queensland ... 25 11 8 " The Government are only opposed South Australia 43 3 5 to the granting of a 44-hour week because Western Australia 26 12 8 they cannot find the money." Tasmania 26 4 10 It is more difficult to find the money to-day Queensland was the lowest in that year. than it was in 1925. If this reform, as it During the years 1926-29 all the other is termed, is forced· upon industry, it must States showed substantial increases in the lead to further unemployment and greater deposits per head of population, whereas in distress in the community. Queensland there was no increase whatever. There is one objectionable feature of the The Queensland figures ar.e the same for Bill that we must resist to the uttermost; 1925 as they were for 1928-£25 lls. 8d. per and that is the provision which gives the head of population. This State absolutely unions the option of utilising the court or stagnated during those three years of striking. They cannot have it both ways. unexampled prosperity, showing that under If arbitration is to be the system to be the exactions of Labour no one was able adopted to settle disputes, there should be to save any money. no permission given to strike. Of course, The figures of the hon. member for Rock­ a secret ballot is to be held. If the workers hampton in reg.ard to the excess of imports decide to strike rather than adopt arbitra­ over exports are merely custom house tion, well and good ; but there must be no figures. He attempted to show that from permission and no countenancing of any 1915 to 1929 our excess of exports over action in the nature of a strike after an impors amounted to £87,000,000. As I said, award has been given. We do not want a these are customs-house figures, merely show­ repetition of the unfortunate waterside ing the value of exports and imports, without strike, where the men deliberately flouted taking into consideration the value of inter­ the law. If men place themselves outside state trade. the ambit of the law they cannot be con­ 'l'he PREMIER: You have said that often sidered by sociBty. That" is where the pre· sent Government were wrong in recognising before. the railway strikers at Townsville. Once Mr. RUSSELL: I say it again; .and I an award is given it must be obeyed; .but can prove that our figur.es are. not better if the men are not prepared to obey it, then than those of any other State in the it must be lawful for other people to do the Commonwealth. work, and they must have the protection of Despite almost superhuman efforts to the Government. I am quite willing to increase our exports, the figures for the subscribe to the doctrine of arbitration pro· State for the last year show that our imports vided awards are obeyed by the unions as from the Southern States exceed our exports well as by the employers, 1'he awards apply to them by nearly £2,000,000. to the unions and they also apply to the The PREMIER : Your figures are wrong organisations of employers and they must again. be obeyed. If the law is disobeyed then those who disobey it cannot be considered by Mr. RUSSELL: I will show the hon. society at all and must put up with the gentleman at some future date that my !Ifr. Rttssell.] 2104 Industrial Conciliation [ASSEMBLY.] and Arbitration Bill.

figures are right. Customs-house figures are ll"en~ral community, and particularly cannot not a true indication of the real trade of mspire confidence in the ranks of employer•. Que.ensland. It is highly desirable that that important I would like to see the court deal with aspect of the Bill should be considered. the wages of youths and girls. If we analyse The next part of the Bill is that relating the awards, we find that boys and girls after to the question of a 44-hour week. Speaking being two or three years at a calling r.eceive this afternoon, the hon. member for Enoo-­ fairly steep rises. The consequence to-day is gera seemed to express disappointment ~t that in most businesses these young people the fact that the Government had even made are dismissed after a few years, and younger a reference to a 48-hour week in this Bill. people are taken on. I throw out the sug­ If I drew the right inference from the hon. gestion that the court might consider the member's remarks, he appeared to be matter of making these increases less steep greatly disappointed with the nature of the year by year so as to encourage employers clause inserted in the Bill by the Govern­ to keep on these young people. That is one ment. I have no objection to a. 44-hour of the main causes of the unemployment week; indeed, I would have no objection to which exists to-day

40-hour week. What I have quoted indi­ hours has increased the number of employees cates the widespread demand amongst quite the contrary is the case. I venture t.; organised unionism to-day for a. shorter say that, if there were not so many indus­ week. I cannot understand the point of tries working under the 44-hour awards, our view of hon. members who advocate a unen:,ployment problem would not be quite shorter working week, when they know that so acute. The statutory 44-hour week com­ it must inevitably increase the cost of pro­ menced in Queensland in 1925, and the fol­ duction and the cost of living; and it would lowing figqres extracted from the Common­ bankrupt those· industries that have to com­ wealth " Year Book " show the actual pete with the outside world. In those indus­ results in the various secondary industries tries which enjoy the shelter of the tariff subject to outside competition. This list in Australia it could only have the effect only applies to industries which are subject of driving up the cost of living to an to competition, and excludes gas works, impossible point. electric light works, railway workshops etc., Mr. Theodore, in addressing a meeting of ':'hich are not affected by outside co~peti­ the Trades and Labour Council in Brisbane, tiOn :- as reported in the " Daily Standard " of 6th January, 1923, has this to say- NUMBER OF " There is no royal road to the indus­ EMPLOYEES. In- trial millennium. We have to weigh Class of Factory. 1---,----~1 g~e})~':. exactly the effects of every piece of legis­ lation that we pass. Therefore, the pass­ 1925- 1927- crease. 26. 28. ing of a statutory 44-hour week would ----·------1------have been very unwise. H they knock

for information but got no reply. I saw workers' meagre pay envelope, the union a piece in the paper, lOth November, official has, by law, a preference over the that you gave it a kick. We would be man's wife and children, and that many very pleased to hear something more essentials which that unfortunate worker about it as we are all serious to get our requires to maintain his family in these 25s. back. Give Hynes another thump. difficult times are taken from him by force He might let us know how we stand. of law by men who profess to stand for the We paid for our tickets but we haven't brotherhood of man, for the rights of the been to receive them yet as we are downtrodden, the suffering. and those who living in hopes of getting our money are in misery and distress. It cannot be j usti­ back. We were working on the Invicta fied, and I say it reflects great discredit on road, Gooburrum Shire Council. Go­ a great industrial organisation like the Aus­ vernment grants eight weeks about. tralian Workers' Union to think that, in Now here is the job. When we started their hunger for funds to misspend and to we got no rations at all. We had to misgovern their union as they are doing, make the best of it for the first fort­ they should resort to devices of this kind night, and then we only got one week's to force the relief workers to subscribe 25s. pay. The next pay the union ticket each out of their two months' rotational 25s. When we were finished we had to pay for union tickets. It only illustrates the wait three weeks before we could get stranglehold that trade unionism, allied with any rations or intermittent work. That the political Labour Party, is getting, not makes it five weeks without anything only on the worker engaged in industry out o.f eight weeks. 'Good old Labour but on this country itself. During the past Party,' I don't think. Where is the three years 31,550 workers who were members Honourable Mr. G. Barber? Is he still of various unions in Queensland relinquished sleeping. Give him a decent kick in membership because they appeared to realise the ribs so he will wake up. They tell that the objects for which unionism stood me here that half those members in the had not been realised. The arguments used Labour Party are A.W.U. Is that in favour of trade unionism are these:- correct? No wonder! We thought we 1. It keeps up wages. were hard done by when you were in 2. It shortens hours of labour. power. By Jove, we did not have to go five weeks out o-f eight weeks without 3. It prevents unemployment. tucker. Well, dear sir, I will close· my Unionism was never stronger in Queensland letter now, and I am sure you will ·do than in 1930; yet in that year wages fell, more for us than Mr. Hynes. He's not hours increased, and unemployment reached game to tell us the truth. I would like a record level. to see you answer me through the paper, Union control of our political life is having sir." a paralysing effect on industry to-day. In The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : most other countries unionism is more of a Mr. Speaker, I would ask that the hon. social and economic foroe. Unionism stands member for West Moreton place the letter for benefits-to provide some assistance to on the table. its members in sickness and old age, and it does not concentrate on securing political Mr: MAHER: I cannot lay the letter on power. In Queensland and Australia Labour the table. is the most vital force in our political Mr. SPEAKER: Order ! It is generally system; and in Australia w.e had registered understood that an hon. member who reads last year 362 Labour unions having 855,000 a letter in the course of a debate~ shall, if members, and, in consequence of this and requested, lay it on the table of tne House. thl'ir association with the political Labour In the alternative, it is understood that an Party, our industries are fettered with legis­ hon. member vouches for the contents of any lation affecting wages, strikes, hours, indus­ letter that he reads. trial disputes, and arbitration. No other Mr. MAHER : I vouch for the correctness country in the world is in the same unfor­ of the letter. The racy style in which it tunate position as Australia in this respect; is written stamps it as genuine, and the and these unions do not handle their finances sentiments expressed in it, are, I venture to rightly, nor do they govern their own say, those of 70 per cent. of the relief affairs rightly. workers in Queensland. If necessary, I am Senator Arthur Rae, writing in the prepared to lay the letter on the table of "Labour Daily" of 20th January, 1928, the House. said- Mr. KENNY: They will get no more jobs " The reasons for misgovernment of if you do. unions may be classified under two heads, the most important being the carelessness The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : and apathy of the membership in some You say it is couched in racy sty le; I think cases, allowing a clique of officials almost it is couched in a very offensive style. unchecked powers which are certain to Mr. MAHER : I said it was written in a lead to abus.e. The other is faulty con­ racy style. struction of some unions, which by failing to prohibit officials from acting in a I have had occasion to deal previously in legislative capacity has enabled them to this House with the rapacity of the Aus­ amend the rules and constitution in tralian Workers' Union in forcing relief their own interests and practically workers to subscribe to that organisation. exclude the rank and file from govern­ It is hard to think that, when a man who ment of their own organisations." has been out of work for a period of ten or twelve months and suddenly secures two I said when I was speaking previously that months' rotational work, he should be forced the Australian Workers' Union had spent by law to take out a ticket costing 25s. in practically the whole of its revenue of the Australian Workers' Union, and that, to £65,632 last vear in salaries, travelling the extent of that 25s. out of the relief expenses, motor cars, political loans aTifi Mr. Maher.1 2108 Industrial Conciliation [ASSEMBLY.] and Arbi~raticn Bill, subsidies, whilst the only benefit it gave to out serious consequences to Queensland. its members was £27 5s. under a boot There is no question that, when the elections repair scheme. The Amalgamated Food­ were held, the general body of unionists in stuffs Union received last year £1,610 a;nd Queensland expected to have the 44-hour spent £1 562 in salaries. The Australian week put into operation almost immediately Meat Industry Employees' Union received after the Government were returned. The £5 904 of which £3 549 went in salaries. Government now find that things a;re more Th~ B~isbane Tramwa:ys Union's annual sub­ serious than they anticipated, and have scription for adults is £3 18s. and the su~­ asked for time. Following out their policy scription for points boys is £3 Ss. That IS which has been in operation ever since they almost equal to the Russian impost for assumed office-that is, waiting for some­ union membership, which amounts to 2 per thing to turn up-they are staving off the cent. on the annual wage. It gives point matter for a few months, hoping that by that to my argument that the unions are not time something will turn up. using their funds for legitimate P'-'TfJOSes, There is no need for this Bill at all. The but are making political contributions. Act put through by the previous Government Preference to unionists has been abused placed Queensland in the best position of all in the past. The Queensland State Public the States of Australia. We are going Service Union, in its statement of receipts through a terrific crisis, and Queensland was and expenditure for 1925, showed that it in a very parlous condition when the Moore spent £500 in the purchase of " Daily Government assumed office; but, after that Standard " shares; the Queensland Central Government had been in office for some time, Executive of the Australian Labour Party they put through a measure which made it got £27 Ss. 6d., and the Australian Labour possible for men to carry on industry here. Party election fund £21; making a total We find from the Commonwealth Statisti­ of £54S Ss. 6d. Ca:n anybody justify a cian's figures at the end of June, 1932, political subsidy of that kind out of funds that Queensland had the lowest cost collected for legitimate trade union pur­ of living and the shortest hours. of work poses-collected from many people who are in Australia, she has had the least per­ diametrically opposed to the aims of the centage of unemployment and the highest political Labour Party? Furthermore, a effective basic wage in Australia since 1921. referendum was taken in 1923 of the members Another factor is that during the whole of the State Public Service Union on the of the regime of the Moore Gove,rnment not question of affiliation with the Australian one strike occurred. Labour Party. This proposal was defeated; nevertheless, in spite of the democratic The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY: vote of the union affiliation was effected by That is not correct. What about the Mount the executive officers of the union, which Oxide strike? illustrates that unions are controlled by Mr. NIMMO: I do not call the Mount men who ar,e, not acting in the general Oxide trouble a strike; it was only a trivial interests of the members whom they thing-only forty men were affected; but, represent. through the stupidity of a union organiser, I would like to say that, in my opinion, an attempt was made to paralyse the railway the Bill is entirely wrong and unnecessary. service of Qiteensland ; and if the Govern­ The Act which was passed by the Moore ment in power had not been strong- enough to Government in 1929 contains the following nip the trouble in the bud, Queensland would principles, which cannot be improved upon- have been in an unholy mess. We would Conciliation before arbitration; have had the same spectacle we had when Mr. Gillies was Premier and a weak-kneed The Court to confinB itself to majo,r Government gave in to the unions. I repeat matters such as wages, hours, and that it was a trivial strike of only forty holidays; men, but, through the stupidity of Mr. The economic effect of wages to be taken Moroney, nearly the whole of our railway into consideration; service was dislocated. Exemption from awards in the case of new industries; It seems to me a great pity that, when the Moore Government had got the position Industrial agreements embracing one in this State in hand and things were defi­ business. nitely starting to improve, there should be Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. mem­ a change of Government. Conditions were hl'r has exhausted the time allowed him under improving mainly because of the industrial the Standing Orders. legislation of the Moore Government. In 1925 the production in Q11.eensland was pro­ Mr. NIMMO (Oxley) [7.52 p.m.]: I may portionately higher than anywhere else in at once state that I am in favour of a,rbitra­ Australia. Then the 44-hour week legislation tion, and have always said so in this House. commenced to be felt and the production Good unionism is quite a useful thing; but fell below the average for Australia. From w~en it has. run mad, as indicated by thi; 1929 to 1931, according to the latest figures B 1ll, there Is only one result, and that is we have, production was considerably the ruination of industry. reduced throughout Australia, but there was Personally I fail to see why the Govern­ ,a miraculous recovery in the production of ment are rushing this Bill through right at Queensland. The decline in the net valite ilte tail end of the session. It looks to me of production in two years under the Moore as though the hands of the Government have Government was only 10 per cent. in Queens­ been forced, when we see that the 44-hour land as against 32 per cent. for the rest of week clause is not going to come into opera­ Australia. tion until the 1st July next. Official figures also show that, while the The Government promised to restore the fall in production per head of population 44-hou! week at the elections; but, on was only £S 10s. in Queensland, it was assummg control of the country they found £23 9s. 5d. elsewhere in the Commonwealth. it impossible to put it into op~ration with- When the Moore Government took office the [Mr. Maker. I ndustPial aoncil iation [8 DECEMBER.) and Arbitration Bill. 2109 value of production was £5 lls. 2d. per to export manufactured goods to Canada· and capita below the average of all the States, other parts of the world-certainly not in but in two years practicatly a revolution very large quantities. Immediately the 44- took place in industry, and the Queew')tnd hour week is imposed, it will be uneconomic average rose to £9 Ss. 3d. above the F,nore than industry can afford, in this State? It will certainly result in an and will create more unemployment. The increase in the cost of living, and this will Government definitely promised a 44-hc.ur react to the detriment of the peO}'le in the week at the last election. Possibly the Pre­ "ountry. The city folk must needs buy the mier did not realise that the economic posi­ goods produced in the country, and they tion was so serious as he found it on will be available only at a higher cost. All assuming office. materials and all goods will be increasRc! The PREMIER : You really left a worse in price because of the shorter working week. mess than I thought. At the present time the Brisbane '!'ram­ Mr. NIMMO: There is no use the hon. ways Department is maintaining its opera­ gentleman making excuses. 'T'he Moore Go­ iions at a very slight profit; but, if the vernment did the very best ~.hey could under 44-hour week is imposed, the utility will be the circumstances. The Government promised "onducted at a loss; and that loss will have a 44-hour week, and the electors thought to be made good either by an increa&e in when they were returned that this would tramway fares or by an increase in the rat<'• be legislated for immediately. I am very 'levied by the Brisbane City Council. glad that the Premier is suspending its It is estimated that the cost of the 44-hour operation for a certain period. I hope week to the Railway Department will be that before it is put into operation he will £100,000 per annum. 'l'hat estimate may be broadminded enough to go to the men be right and it may be wrong. It is difficult and say, " Look here, if we put this 44-hour

Government to spread that money over as that many industries are. cutting prices large a number of people as possible. Young merely to keep the workers employed, and people who never felt the pinch previously that any further harassing conditions will would vote for any party which made attrac, mean the closing down of these industries. tive promises. They did not consider any I do not want that to happen, and I trust policy. They voted for the Government the Government will see fit to stay the because they wer.e. told that, if they were operation of this legislation for a certain elected, better conditions wouJ.d follow. They period. were also told, "If you return Labour to The Railway Department will have tO> power, we will borrow £2,500,000 carry a terrific burden. A 44-hour week immediately and put every man and woman will mean that a lot of overtime will have in work immediately." Railwaymen who to be paid by that department and certain had been deflated were told that they would railway workers will be drawing more than get their jobs back; and on the Monday their quota of the national income of following the elections the foremen were Queensland while other men outside will pestered by men asking for their jobs. They be practically on the starvation line. Under fully expected to be reinstated 111 their the Moore Government they worked an former positions. extra four hours a we0k and the railway Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. mem­ position was much better. Notwithstanding ber is not in order. the serious depression, the net earnings en our 1·ailways were £1,000,000 better than Mr. NIMMO: Very well, Mr. Speake!· they were under the previous Government. These railwaymen really expected that this Bill would be one of the first measures This Bill is the most drastic piece of enacted. The argument used outside was legislation that has been put on the statute that the 44-hour week wouJ.d be enacted, and book of any State in Australia. Mr. Lang thi;; would enable many extra men to be attempted to put a similar Bill through the engaged in the Railway Department. The New South Wales Parliament but that Bill result was that many of the men I have was ruled out by the Legislative Council. referred to fully expected to get their jobs It was recognised in New South Wales that back. They are still out. I fail to see why if Mr. Lang's Bill had become law indus­ this Bill should be brought down at the tries which under Mr. Lang had become present time. It is true that the 44-hour practically bankrupt would have been in week will be deferred until 1st July next; a much worse position. but there is no certainty that conditions will Most people in Queensland recognise that be any better on that date than they are our manufacturing industries slipped from to-day. the date of the introduction of Mr. Theo­ The "Economic News" shows that for the dore's Industrial Arbitration Bill in 1924. three months ended October, 1931, the I want to deal briefly with the preference number of wag.e earners, including relief to unionists clause. To my mind the pre­ workers not registered who were unem­ ference clause in this Bill is the most ployed totalled 24,279, whilst for the corre­ iniquitous thing that could be imposed on sponding quarter this year the number was any industry or on the workers of any 38,147. When speaking to-night one hon. country. We all know that our forefathers member pointed out that there had been a fought to be free, and now every man slight improvement in the unemployment engaged in industry is practically to be figures for Queensland. Certainly the figures made a slave. All the young women in the relating to Queensland wage earners with city here who are working as clerks and full-time employment show 28.6 per cent. typists are now to be forced to contribute unemployed in O,ctober last. as against 28.8 to the union funds. It is really racketeering per cent. for the previous month-an of industry such as is practised very exten­ improvement of .2 per cent. The Common­ sively in the United States of America. wealth statistics based on trade union returns When we realise that the unions are start­ for August record a decrease in unemploy­ ing to do it in this country, which is sup­ me.nt from 30 per cent. to 29.6 per cent. posed to be the freest in the world, it is for Australia, and from 19.9 per cent. to time something was done to stop it. 19.3 per cent. for Queensland. I am sub­ Mr. O'KEEFE: Why are you crying down mitting that the percentage decrease is your own country ? exactly the. same all over Australia, so that Mr. NIMMO: I am not crying down my the present Government cannot take credit own country. Hon. members opposite are for the decrease ih unemployment revealed handing over the government of the coun­ by these figure•. try to the union secretaries and union offi­ At the last election the members of the cials. I know of an industry which employs Mocre Party told the people definitely that more workers during the winter months than the Labour Party had no possible hope of are employed during the summer months. redeeming the promises which the members A majority of the temporary hands whO> of that party were making; but the hon. get employment in the winter months are g.entleman who is now Premier assured the women; and under this measure they will public that the promises would be redeemed. have to pay a poll tax to the union. It is a The Bill now before the House is appar­ terrific tax, when it is remembered that ently the result. of a promise made to the they are only employed for four or five electors that a Bill would be introduced to months in the year. I went to the court, give certain concessions to the workers; and asked that preference to unionists should but, when the Premier found the conditions not be granted in that indust.ry. I had a long of affairs so parlous, wouJ.d it not have been wait, and J' saw the cases dealt with before wiser to defer the introduction of this Bill mine came on. One was the sugar workers'' to some later period? Unquestionably all case, in which all the evidence was put before· industry must be given a. certain amount of the Commissioner. He never even asked latitude in order that it may function pro­ any questions. but sat there. You would perly in these extremely difficult times. I have thought he was the Sphinx in Egvpt; know from my own personal observation he never blinked an eyelid, never smiled, [Mr. N1fmmo. Industrial Conciliation [8 DECEMBER.] and Arbitration Bill. 2111 never said a word. When all the evidence of electors, each of whom held as many as was given, he simply leaned over and said, eight differ-ent union tickets, came to see " Preference is granted." I thought I would me, and asked for help to get a job. If a not waste my time stopping there to hear man holds one union ticket, which has not any more cases, and I said to the secretary expired he should be allowed to transfer of the Chamber of Manufactures " Will with that ticket to any other union. Why you get it put through, because it is a should he be forced to buy another ticket moral certainty that preference is going to simply because he is get.ting a job? 'Under be granted no matter what arguments are this Bill he will have a Lcket in the Carters' put up. If preference is grantcdJ we are not Gnion, and, if he gets a job at the meat­ going to be in a position to co::npetc with works, he has to buy another ticket there. Southern manufacturers. You simply go to He may be only two months there, and then the court and prcference is g-rcmtcd. If there get a ]Ob at a boot factory, where he has to is a man who wnnts employment, who has not get another ticket. That is wrong, and some­ got a union ticket, and the union officials thing should be done to remedy it. will not issue a ticket to him because thev Another matter I find fault with in this Bay they have a man they can place OU Bill is that there is no appeal to a higher the job, it simply places the business in court. V cry definite provisions are con­ the hands of the unions. They say "We hined in the Bill in referepce to the juris­ will not issue a ticket to a person whom you diction of the court and th& defining of the wish to employ yourself. We will send a man law. The Minister may say that we have a who is on our books." He may be the judge of the Supreme Court as president, biggest waster in the country; but you who will attend to all legal matters; but must emplov him, otherwise the union may there may be contentious matters in which call a strike. It is the most tragic thing the lay members have their own ideas as to that can be faced by any industry in the the law and can outvote the judge, and the world, to say that the right of employment result will be that we shall have cases is not in the hands of the people who find decided altogether at variance with what the money and are struggling hard to build was really intended. up industry. Mr. GLEDSON: You know that is not right. If preference is granted, it should be as a reward for the decent working of the Mr. NIMMO : I know it is right, accord­ union; but the unions should be run cffi­ ing to the Bill. ·ciently eo as to be able to carry on without Mr. GLEDSON: You have not read the Bill. any preference at all. If preference is -granted, the unions will get tyrannical. Mr. NIMMO: I have; and it distinctly Before a man can got a job, he must be a lays down that the court shall be a law unto member of a union. I speak feelingly on itself, and the judge-who is normally this matter, because I feel for every man expected to give legal rulings-may be out­ -and woman in the country ; once they are voted by the two lay members. in a union the union can call the tune, and One clause of the Bill enables a union to they are at the beck and call of every call a strike in defiance of an a ward, and union secretary. thus cost the country a very great amount Mr. O'KEEFE: Like the bank you are of money, After the judgment of the court interested in. is given, the employer must abide by it; but the union has the right to strike, not­ Mr. NIMMO : What is wrong with the withstanding the verdict of the court. It is bank I am interested in ? making a laughing stock of the court. Why Mr. O'KEEFE: Nothing was right with it. have the court at all if we are to have strikes? My only reasons for favouring arbi­ Mr. NIMMO_: Everything was right with tration are, firstly, that it prevents strikes­ it. I w&s associated with a bank in Bris­ or should prevent them-and, secondly, that bane---- it prevents unscrupulous -employers from Mr. SPEAKER: Order ! The interjection tying their men down to a rate of pay was quite irrelevant, and I would ask the which is altogether below the level of hon. member to proceed to deal with the ordinary decency. Bill. The Minister, in answer to a question the Mr. NIMMO: We are dealing with a other day as to how many rotational workers very serious matter, Mr. Speaker, and, when were employed in the past three months, an interjection is made from that quarter, said that the number was 524, or a number there is dirt behind it. in that vicinity. That is in striking contrast with the figures of 5,000 or 6,000 in the time If the preference clause is granted, it of the Moore Government. On top of that, will be possible for a union organiser to we have the insidious propaganda amongst go to a city firm and say to the manager, relief workers. I ha·ve in mind an instance "That man behind the count'er who is which occurred in my own electorate, as serving that customer must be dismissed at well as in other districts, a few days ago. -once because he has not paid his union dues I was told very definitely by relief workers or has no union ticket." So far as I that they asked the organiser, "Why &re read the clause, if the man has not got a we not getting a spin on the rotational union ticket and they will not give him a work? " and he said, " Have you got an ticket, the manager has to discharge him. Australian Workers' Union ticket?" In the New South Wales Act it was defi­ nitely provided that that could be done, and Mr. GLEDSON: That is absolutely wrong. the same thing will operate under this Bill, Mr. NIMM0: I have the word of these There is another thing which I am going men for it, and I enter my protest against to protest against; that is the practice of that sort of thing. The hon. member r;ot keeping the books open and also not for Ipswich may not be as well informed as issuing the rules of the union to members. I am. Probably his union organiser would When I was elected to Parliament a number not let him know the facts. Mr. Nimmo.] 2112 Industrial Gonci'iation [ASSEMBLY.] and Arbitration Bill.

The hon. member for Normanby said this introduced. Hon. members opposite have afternoon that general progress had been stated that they were against the principle made in industry under Labour, and he went of arbitration. They did not hwe the on to quote certain figures. Although up to courage to make that dir-ect statement, but a point they did convey the idea that the inference to be drawn from the1r speeches general progress had been made during that is that we should not have any arbitrary period, had not progress been mad_e through­ fixation of wages or conditions during times out the world in the same perwd? The of depression. I have heard that argument figures he quoted were £265 and £357 over before. Go back twenty or thirty years, and the period from 1919 to 1931. The increase you can read the same arguments-that there was only a matter of £92; and in the very should be no interference with industry and same speech the hon. member pointed out that the captains or the owners of the that machinery had come into more general machines of production should have the scle use, and had enabled production to increase; right to say under what conditions the so that the increase of £92 was practically employees shall work in any calling or no increase at all. business. That is totally opposed to the Although the first industrial legislation in accepted theme of every civilised nation Queensland may be said to have commenced to-day. with "The Wages Boards Act of 1908," the l heard speeches in this House to-day that first Act providing for arbitration as we would have done credit to the old d1a hard know it was introduced in 1916; but from reactionaries of forty years ago. Very 1916 until recently did we face any crisis many of the employers to-day are of tlle such as that which we are now passing opinion that the time is opportune fo_r the through? Was that arbitration law ever introduction of a 44-hour week. Most mdus­ tried out in an industrial crisis? tries in Queensland to-day are working under a 44-hour week; and in many ca;;es Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. gentle­ there is no desire on the part of the man has exhausted the time allowed him employer to get away from that princip:e­ under the Standing Orders. of democracy-a shorter working week br The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR Al\D the operativ-es in industry. In many parts INDUSTRY (Hon. M. P. Hynes, Towns­ of the world concerted efforts are being made vi/le) [8.30 p.m.]: I listened with a great in the direction of dealing with unemploy­ deal of patience and a little amusement to ment, and the principle of a shorter work­ the speeches made by hon. members oppo­ ing week is being considered as a panaceit site protesting against the introduction of for unemployment. I ask hon. member& this Bill. Many of the speakers referred opposite is it not a logical deduction that to the fact that I made no second reading the shorter the hours the greater the number speech on the Bill. I make no apology for of employees l'equired to function in the­ that. I have the right to d-ecide how I industries that are in existence to-day? [t shall exercise my privileges in this House, might be said that, if the hours a:e· and I am not going to· be dictated to by any shortened to too great an extent, certam would-be domineering characters on the manufacturers will be exposed to unfa't' other side. competition from the South and will :>u:fl'cr I am proud of the fact that I am asso­ disabilities, perhaps to the extent of closing­ ciated with the introduction of this B1ll. down; but we have made provision in the If I were ashamed of it, as was suggested Bill to enable the court to deal with such by wme hon. members opposite, I woulJ special cases. be ashamed of being an Australian, because I have made the statement that there is a, Australia stands four-squar.e for the prin­ general endeavour through the whole world ciple of arbitration and the principle of to-day to shorten the working week. 'l'he elementary justice to every citizen withir, ex-Presi-dent uf the United States of America ' the Commonwealth. It is because we believe -a man who is looked upon as one of the· in this principle and believe that the leading economists in the political world­ people who have built up thia country recently organised a body whose objective should have the right of access to the Indus­ is the shortening of the working week. By trial Court, and should have the right to such a method he calculates that they will r.eceive justice from a properly constituted be able to deal to some extent with the unem­ tribunal, that we have seen the necessity for ploymenf, proqlem in his country. The introducing industrial laws in Queensland. "League of Nations Journal" of a recent The Bill is based on the accumulated date, which was referred to in the " Daily knowledge and experience gained through Standard " this evening, has this to say :- the last quarter of a century in the Com­ " At a meeting of the governing body monwealth and other countries of the world. of the International Labour Office in In this connection I desire to pay a tribute Geneva last August, the Italian Govern­ to the late Chief Justice McCawley, who ment representative, M. de Michelis, certainly did a great deal in interpreting asked for ' a special meeting to be con­ the Act that was in operation and was vened at a,n early date to consider the r-epealed by the Act of 1929. · calling of a special session of the Inter­ I have already pointed out that the Bill national Labour Conference to discuss the practically re-enacts the old Act and embodies re-duction of hours of work in view of the some of the clauses of the 1929 Act. There present world unemployment.' That was; were some provisions in the latter Act that agreed to, and in January next a Pre­ w.e thought should be continued, and we paratory Technical Conference will meet had no hesitation in continuing them. 'lhe to study the proposa.l. Meanwhile, in whole tirade of abuse to which I have Italy, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, listened during the day has been agai:1sc France, the United States of America, the principle of 1arbitration, and not against Poland, and Germany, the question of the Bill. No helpful suggestions were made a reduction of working· hours to forty and no logical argum

It was rather amusing to hear one hon. great sugar industry, one of the oldest indus­ member refer to Italy as a kind of exploiters' tries in Queensland, and an industry that. paradise where there was no restriction on is certainly giving us very great assistance industry, and no agitation for any interfer­ in these parlons times. I have a recollec­ ence in industrial matters. M. Mussolini's tion of the time when an effort was made· representative, I take it, was instructed to to pay the princely wage of 22s. 6d. per a-dvocate the calling together of a special week, when the employee had' to work ten session of the International Labour Confer­ and twelve hours per day, and when the ence for the sole purpose of bringing about conditions of work were such as to be little an international 40-hour week. That is better than those of the black people em­ something that should engage the attention ployed in the industry. Twenty-two shilling& of all thinking hon. members. and sixpence per week was the maximum, There is evi-dence that in times of industrial many men working for less than that. The­ depression a certain section of employers weekly hours were sixty, and the worker& invariably endeavour to bring about a con­ had to live in hovels that decent people dition whereby they will make more profits would hesitate to occupy. The dietary in by exploiting the toil of the people they those days consisted of sweet potatoes and employ. That is undoubtedly what is going meat. The worker found that it was essen­ on here and in other parts of the world. tial in his interests that he should organi.se The fixation of wages and the control of in the direction of collective bargaining. industry by legislative action and by the Although the workers had several sever£' system of arbitration is more expedient and struggles, they were able to establish condi­ essential in times of industrial depression tions which are a credit to any industry in than in normal times. Australia. The conditions operating in that If we do not have arbitration, the only industry have been brought about solely by alternative is direct action. No sane person the efforts of men combined in an organisa.. would advocate direct action to-day as the tion. To a large extent the improved con.. best method of settling indust-rial disputes, ditions are attributable to the excellent ser­ or giving some protection to people func­ vice rendered by the executive officers and tioning in industry. They acknowledge that members of the Australian Workers' Union. arbitration is the best method wherebv the Still we find people referring to the Aus­ working class can obtain redress for indus­ tralian Workers' Union as a body which has trial grievances and secure a fair share of operated in a reverse direction. The Aus­ the wealth which they produce. Nobody in tralian Workers' Union has been the chief his right senses would a.dvocate direct action factor in placing the sugar industry on a. in preference to arbitration. sound, solid, and economic basis; and many The ex-hon. member for Ipswich, Mr. J. E. of the employers in the industry, if they Walker, made the statement in public at are fair, will acknowledge that and give Ipswich that the alternative to arbitration that credit to the Australian Workers, was revolution. I subscribe to that opinion. Union. We certainly do not claim that we are The only method of securing industrial going to abolish the capitalist system by peace is by giving a fair measure of elemen­ arbitration. We do not believe that we shall tary justice to the people who are function­ usher in the millennium by arbitration; but. ing in industry. That is precisely what this we do say that we will ensure that the Bill sets out to do. It may be appr·opriate worke•rs in the variou' industries shall not for me to read the following extract which be sweated and shall receive something· appeared in a recent issue of the Melbourne resembling decent wages and decent condi­ "Age"- tions, and that the wives and families of the· " The revived clamour for the abolition workers will have a decent standard of of arbitration shows that there is one living. These are some of the things that section at least which would visit upon the unions have built up. These are some of the workers the greater part, if not th~ the things that arbitration has assisted in whole, of the sacrifices dictated by the building up. necessities of the present economic situa­ Hon. members opposite went back fifty' tion-that there survives a school which years. As far back as 1890, Sir Samuel envisages the in-dustrial paradise as that Griffith made the following observations in: country where there is no industrial law this House regarding the worke·r's right to a save that of the jungle." share of the wealth which he was producing- An impartial listener to the speeches of hon. " 'l'he relations between Capital and. members opposite must come to the conclu­ Labour constitute one of the great diffi­ sion that they are opposed to a system of culties of the day. I look to the recog­ arbitration. nition of this principle, that a share of Mr. RussELL: Nothing of the sort. the profits of productive labour belongs. of right to the labourer, as of the greatest The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND importance in the future adjustment of INDUSTRY: They believe in going back to their relations." the law of the jungle-reverting to forty years ago, when the workers had to resort Later, in introducing a Bill affirming the· to direct action, and when the employers principle of a living wage, he said- depende-d on starving the workers into sub­ " 'l'he natural and proper measure of mission to whatever conditions they imposed wages is such a sum as is a fair imme­ upon them. After listening intelligently to· diate recompe1:se for the labour for· the speeches delivered from the Opposition which they are paid, having regard to its benches, I have come to the conclusion that character and duration; but it can never­ that is what hon. members oppo-site advocate. be taken at a less Sl.j.Ill than such as is' Arbitration has brought a big measure of sufficient to maintain the labourer and his. progress and prosperity to the various indus­ family in a state of health and reason­ tries in this State, and the employers in able comfort." these instabhsh freedom of contract-the right to resulted in what is known as the Toowoomba conduct their business as they ple~tsed Foundry case. That was a case in which a whether members of a union or not. special provision was placed in an Act to That is exactly t.he same a.rgument that give an undue advantage to one single 'has been put up here to-day-that a person_ employer, who is notorious for his efforts conductmg business should have the sole in keepi!'g down wages and opposing every ri_g?t to say whon; he· will employ, the con­ progressiVe method so far as the workers are --cht10ns under whiCh he will employ the~p.. concerned. That particular action of the Moore Government was despicable and I Although forty years h~tve elapsed since the great maritime and shearers' strikes we still had no hesitation in recommendi~g that find reactionary political troglodyte's in this section [62B] of the present Act should be Chamber advocatmg a policy that was turned deleted as soon as I had the opportunity to ·down by the people in this State forty years do so. ago-that is freedom of contract by which I come now to. the question of preference -they really me~tn preference to non-unionists. to unionists-a principle in which I b-elieve. Every man who has given this matter 1 I wish now to refer to a statement bv the consideratiOn must agree that the man who !ate Chief Justice Mc~awley, who, in a pays his money to an organisation to secure Judgment, stated that It was essential for better conditions has a just grievance tht> functioning of an Arbitration Court to against that creature who endeavours to take 'have unions. Mp. Stanley Melbourne Bruce formerly Prime Minister of Australia o,;_ the increased benefits without paying his -one occasion made the same statement-that quota towards the cost of securing them. if the Arbitration Court was to function sue~ It was alleged by the Leader of the cessfully, it was imperative that there should Opposition that no other country in the be . unions of employers and employees to wo.rl~ r-ecognises w~at he calls this tyrannical assist the court. A perusal of the arbitration prmCiple. That IS untrue; and fo'r the ;measures whicl! have been operating in this edification of the hon. gentleman, 'I propose State shows that full cognisance is taken of to quote from the latest edition of tile the various unions of employers and "Canadian Labour Gazette " for October employees. The whole basis of an Arbi­ 1932, the following agreements which w'er~--· tration Court is the principle that unions of entned into by the employers and em­ employees and employers shall be effectively ployees- represented in the cases brought before the " Manufacturing industry-non-metallic ·court. In the face of that, hon. members mineral products- oppooite talk disparagingly of unionists ;and (i.) Only union members shall be 'try to make ol1t that the unionism of t~-day employed; is tyrannical. . (ii.) Hours-an 8-hour day-fo11r I do not wish to go over the whole of the hours on Saturday or 44 hours per .a_rguments put up by hon. members oppo­ , ..vE"ek." ·site.. We h":v.e had i:t this Bill to repeal I suppose that industrial conditions in llowing :- a.t the mstJgat10n of employers' organisa­ tiOns; yet we ar~ charged with taking notice "Manufacturing pulp- paper and paper ·of . rec

Bookbinders, etc.- The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND (i.) Only union labour to be em­ INDUSTRY: During the time that I have ployed. been Minister only six persons have objected to pay the Australian Workers' Union annual (ii.) Hours-a 44-hollr week." subscription of 25s. The ticket entitles them These cases indicate that in Canada the to a free copy of the "Worker" newspaper. employers have· accepted the principle of The hon. member for West Moreton must be· preference to unionists because they find 1t very proud to think that this class of indus­ is in their own interests to do so. I do trialist goes to him. He is the only person not say that they are swayed by philan­ in this Chamber who has espoused their cause. thropic motiv·es, but they realise that in These six people voluntarily signed an under­ this way they get more contentment and taking to take a ticket. I want to inform harmony; and, when you get contentment the hon. member that the great Australian and harmony in industry, you go a long Workers' Union was built up by shearers, way towards getting efficiency; so employers and they rarely had more than eight weeks" in Canada logically give preference to run on any particular job. The six men unionists. referred to voluntarily signed an under­ The hon. member for West Moreton seems taking to take a ticket, but, after completing to have a vendetta against the Australian their eight weeks' work, they employed the Workers' Union, although most persons miserable tactics of going to Tory members recognise that its officials comprise men who of this House in an endeavour to " raise a have given a life's sm·vice to "the organisation dust " and to secure the return of the money and have succeeded ~in conferring great they had paid. benefits on its members. I am going to give some logical reasons Mr. MAHER: " Handsome is as handsome why all unionists should pay their union fees. does." Here are some of the tangible benefits that The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND have accrued to the unionists of Queensland' INDUSTRY: I think the hon. member for and to the workers generally during th& West Moreton will admit that the Austra­ past couple of years. When the late Govern-· lian Workers' Union has the reput.~tion of ment passed the Industrial Conciliation and being aboveboard in anything it does. If Arbitration Act in 1929, a demand was made· it is in a fight, everything it does is done by the Employers' ~ssociatior: for a redu?­ in the open; and to cast upon it the tion of 7s. per week m the basiC wage. 'I'lus aspersion that it has been guilty of despotic equals a reduction of £2,000,000 per annum action in conscripting people to join the in the wages of persons employed under organisation is far from the truth. awards in Queensland. The employers did their very best to secure that reduction. The· The man who will not join an organisation able advocacy of the union officials was is a despicable person. If he enjoys the instrumental iri defeating that application_ benefits in common with other members of One of the Ministers in the Moore Govern­ the organisation, it is despicable on his part ment said- if he is not prepared to contribute t·owards the cost of securing those benefits. " The court has failed to function aS"· I propose to set out some of the benefits it w:.ts intended to function." that have accrued to members of the Aus­ The employees saved 7s. per week in con­ tralian Workers' Union and other unions, nection with that one application to the who pay sixpence per week in support of court for a reduction in the basic wage. their organisation. I know that the hon. Full credit must be given to the union repre­ member for West Moreton, being one of sentatives for preventing that reduced basie those hard-shelled Tory Conservatives, would wage being brought about, and in saving like to see the Australian Workers' Union the workers £2,000,000 per annum. smashed up. It is rather remarkable that this organisation should be singled out for Mr. MAHER: What benefits did they g;ve criticism; but probably it is because it is the relief workers? thought that the Australian Workers' Union The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND has some political influence in the affairs INDUSTRY : The conditions of the workers in this country. TheJ,;e is no reason why on the job to which the hon. member for the members of an industrial organisation West Moreton refers were secured by the· should not pay contributions or levies f.or Australian Workers' Union. They did not. the purpose of running candidates for Par­ obtain those conditions voluntarily. They liament. Trade union funds have been used had to fight for many years to secure them, for this purpose throughout the civilised and relief workers who are rotated for world, and in some countries funds are eight weeks at a time are enjoying thos& utilised to pay the whole of the salaries of conditions to-day. Some of the money t

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT. INDUSTRY: That is a logical deduction to be drawn from his argument. The PREMIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Maekay): I move- On looking through the statistics of the various States in the Commonwealth, I find " That the House, at its rising, do ·.that immediately folJowing a r~duction of adjourn until Tuesday, the 13th instant." •the basic wage-which, accordmg to the Question put and passed . .dictum of the hon. member for West More­ The House adjourned at 9.15 p.m. ton, should reflect increased employment­ i;here was a reduced number of workers employed. The basic wage and the per­ ·centage of unemployment in Queensland can be seen at a glance from the following table:-

1), -- Basi.c ~.:::of Wage. '"·

£ s . d. .June, 1929 .. .. 4 5 0 7'6 December, 1929 .. 4 5 0 7'4 December, 1930 .. 3 17 0 12'5 December, 1931 .. 314 0 16'1 September, 1932 .. 3 14 0 19'3

On every occasion following a reduction in the basic wage iil Queensland there has ,been an immediate increase in unemploy­ ment. The figures indicate that the same conditions operated in Queensland as in the -other States. That shows that, as the pur­ chasing power of the masses is reduced, further unemployment is created. It is at that point that the policy of the Tory Party -clashes with the policy of Labour. The figures prove that a reduction of wages .accentuates the unemployment position. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! . The hon. mem­ .ber has exhausted the time allowed him under the Standing Orders. Question-" That the Bill be now read a .second time (Mr. Hynes's motion)-put; and the House divided:- AYESJ 22. Mr. Barber Mr. Larcombe Bruce Mullan Bulcock O'Keefe Copley, P. K. Pease Cop!ey, W. J. Smith Foley Waters Funnell Wellington Gair Wilson Gledson Hanson Tellers: Hynes Conroy Keogh Williams NoEs; 14. Mr. Barnes, W. H. Mr. Nimmo Deacon Peterson Kenny Swayne King, R. M. Taylor, c. Maher Maxwell Tellers: Moo re Fadden M organ Nick! in PAIRS. AYES. NOES. Mr. Dash Mr. Sizer Collins Grirnstone Bedford Brand Stopford Sparkes Cooper Clayton Llewelyn Barnes, G. P. King, W. T. Edwards Hayes Daniel Taylor, G. C. Russe]] Hanlon Tozer Resolved in the affirmative. Consideration of the Bill in Committee made an Order of the Day for Tuesday next. [Hon. lf;J. P. Hynes.