Legislative Assembly of Alberta the 28Th Legislature First Session
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Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 28th Legislature First Session Standing Committee on Alberta’s Economic Future Bitumen Royalty in Kind Program Stakeholder Presentations Tuesday, February 26, 2013 8:33 a.m. Transcript No. 28-1-7 Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 28th Legislature First Session Standing Committee on Alberta’s Economic Future Amery, Moe, Calgary-East (PC), Chair Bikman, Gary, Cardston-Taber-Warner (W), Deputy Chair Anglin, Joe, Rimbey-Rocky Mountain House-Sundre (W)* Barnes, Drew, Cypress-Medicine Hat (W)** Bhardwaj, Naresh, Edmonton-Ellerslie (PC) Blakeman, Laurie, Edmonton-Centre (AL) Donovan, Ian, Little Bow (W) Dorward, David C., Edmonton-Gold Bar (PC) Eggen, David, Edmonton-Calder (ND) Fenske, Jacquie, Fort Saskatchewan-Vegreville (PC) Goudreau, Hector G., Dunvegan-Central Peace-Notley (PC) Hehr, Kent, Calgary-Buffalo (AL) Jansen, Sandra, Calgary-North West (PC) Luan, Jason, Calgary-Hawkwood (PC) McDonald, Everett, Grande Prairie-Smoky (PC) Olesen, Cathy, Sherwood Park (PC) Quadri, Sohail, Edmonton-Mill Woods (PC) Quest, Dave, Strathcona-Sherwood Park (PC) Rogers, George, Leduc-Beaumont (PC) Sandhu, Peter, Edmonton-Manning (PC) Sherman, Dr. Raj, Edmonton-Meadowlark (AL) Smith, Danielle, Highwood (W) Starke, Dr. Richard, Vermilion-Lloydminster (PC) Strankman, Rick, Drumheller-Stettler (W) Towle, Kerry, Innisfail-Sylvan Lake (W) Young, Steve, Edmonton-Riverview (PC) Vacant * substitution for Danielle Smith ** substitution for Rick Strankman Support Staff W.J. David McNeil Clerk Robert H. Reynolds, QC Law Clerk/Director of Interparliamentary Relations Shannon Dean Senior Parliamentary Counsel/ Director of House Services Philip Massolin Manager of Research Services Stephanie LeBlanc Legal Research Officer Nancy Zhang Legislative Research Officer Nancy Robert Research Officer Corinne Dacyshyn Committee Clerk Jody Rempel Committee Clerk Karen Sawchuk Committee Clerk Christopher Tyrell Committee Clerk Rhonda Sorensen Manager of Corporate Communications and Broadcast Services Jeanette Dotimas Communications Consultant Tracey Sales Communications Consultant Liz Sim Managing Editor of Alberta Hansard Transcript produced by Alberta Hansard Standing Committee on Alberta’s Economic Future Participants Teedrum Inc. ...................................................................................................................................................................... EF-44 Ken Horn, President Jay Stevens, Chief Financial Officer Alberta’s Industrial Heartland Association ........................................................................................................................ EF-49 Ed Gibbons, Board Member; Councillor, City of Edmonton Neil Shelly, Executive Director Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers .................................................................................................................. EF-55 Martyn Griggs, Manager, Oil Sands and Oil Markets University of Alberta ......................................................................................................................................................... EF-62 Amit Kumar, Associate Professor, Department of Mechanical Engineering Stefan Scherer, Director, School of Energy and the Environment; Office of the Vice-president, Research Emilson Silva, Professor and Academic Director, Centre for Applied Business Research in Energy and the Environment, Alberta School of Business Alberta Federation of Labour ............................................................................................................................................ EF-67 Gil McGowan, President In Situ Oil Sands Alliance ................................................................................................................................................. EF-73 Patricia Nelson, Vice-chair Richard Sendall, Senior Vice-president, Strategy and Government Relations, MEG Energy Shell Canada ...................................................................................................................................................................... EF-77 John Broadhurst, Vice-president, Development, Heavy Oil Keiren Ferris, Manager, Global Royalty Policy February 26, 2013 Alberta’s Economic Future EF-43 8:33 a.m. Tuesday, February 26, 2013 Mr. Young: Steve Young, MLA for Edmonton-Riverview. Title: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 ef [Mr. Amery in the chair] The Chair: Thank you all very, very much for being here this morning. The Chair: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Just a few housekeeping items to address before we turn to the all the members, staff, and guests in attendance at today’s meeting business at hand. First of all, the microphone consoles are of the Standing Committee on Alberta’s Economic Future. I operated by the Hansard staff. Please keep cellphones, iPhones, would like to call this meeting to order and ask that members and and BlackBerrys off the table as these may interfere with the those joining the committee at the table introduce themselves for audiofeed. Audio of this committee proceeding is streamed live on the record. Also, I would like to ask those who are participating by the Internet and recorded by Hansard. teleconference or substituting for other members to indicate so The first item that we have on the agenda is the approval of the when they’re introducing themselves. agenda. The agenda was posted on the committee’s internal I will start with myself. I’m Moe Amery, MLA for Calgary-East website I think last Friday. Can I have a motion to adopt? and chair of this committee. Mr. Hehr: I’ve got it. Mr. Hehr: Kent Hehr, MLA, Calgary-Buffalo. The Chair: Okay. Mr. Hehr moved. Any discussion? All in Mr. Rogers: George Rogers, MLA, Leduc-Beaumont. favour? All opposed? Carried. Thank you. The next item on the agenda is the approval of the last Mr. Quadri: Sohail Quadri, Edmonton-Mill Woods. meeting’s minutes. Can I have a motion? Mr. Bhardwaj: Naresh Bhardwaj, Edmonton-Ellerslie. Mr. Quadri: I move that. Mr. Dorward: David Dorward, MLA for Edmonton-Gold Bar. The Chair: Mr. Quadri moved. Any discussion? All in favour? Mr. Anglin: Joe Anglin, Rimbey-Rocky Mountain House-Sundre. Carried. Great. Thank you. Now we will move to the fourth item on the agenda, which is The Chair: And substituting for? the oral presentations. Before we get started with the presentations we have scheduled, I want to take a moment to read into the Mr. Anglin: Oh. Substituting for Danielle Smith. It’s always record the motion passed by this committee which started this about me, so I apologize if I leave anyone out. review process. I hope this friendly reminder will help everyone The Chair: We know that, Joe. remain focused and on task as we proceed today. The motion reads as follows: moved by Ms Olesen that Mr. McDonald: Good morning. Everett McDonald, Grande Prairie- in the interest of encouraging economic development in the Smoky. province, the Standing Committee on Alberta’s Economic Future undertake a study of the BRIK, bitumen royalty in kind, Mr. Sandhu: Good morning. Peter Sandhu, MLA, Edmonton- program and that the scope of the study shall include the Manning. following: • risks and rewards and the effectiveness of the BRIK Mr. Eggen: Good morning. I’m David Eggen, MLA for Edmonton- program; Calder. • barriers to increased bitumen upgrading; • economic costs and benefits of increased bitumen Ms Olesen: Good morning. Cathy Olesen, MLA, Sherwood Park. upgrading in Alberta as compared to other juris- dictions; Dr. Massolin: Good morning. Philip Massolin, manager of research • amount of bitumen that can be safely and profitably services. upgraded in Alberta over the next 20 years given the limitations of infrastructure and water supply and Mrs. Sawchuk: Karen Sawchuk, committee clerk. labour availability; • environmental advantages and disadvantages of The Chair: Those who are participating by teleconference, please. increased bitumen upgrading in Alberta; • possible regulatory measures that could be introduced Mrs. Towle: Good morning. Kerry Towle, MLA, Innisfail-Sylvan to encourage bitumen upgrading capacity in Alberta; Lake. and • economic trade-off of increased investment in Mr. Barnes: Good morning. Drew Barnes, Cypress-Medicine bitumen upgrading in Alberta compared to investment Hat, substituting for Rick Strankman. in other sectors but shall seek to avoid the study of incentives to encourage Mr. Donovan: Good morning. Ian Donovan, Little Bow riding, increased bitumen upgrading in Alberta and those issues within substituting for myself. the mandate of the Royalty Review Panel and the Standing Committee on Resource Stewardship in order to avoid a The Chair: Thank you. duplication of efforts. This is the motion as passed, I think, on . Mr. Luan: Good morning. Jason Luan, Calgary-Hawkwood. Can you hear me? An Hon. Member: A good motion. The Chair: Yes, we can. The Chair: It is a good motion, actually. I don’t remember the Mr. Luan: Thank you. exact date. EF-44 Alberta’s Economic Future February 26, 2013 I’d also like to remind everyone that we have a full day of for the project, being off-balance-sheet greenfield, is the light- presentations ahead of us, and it is important that we keep on heavy differential. schedule. At the last meeting it was agreed that 40 minutes would While we try to identify our ability to finance this particular be set aside for each submission, including 20 minutes of project, it has always been difficult, so we were looking for presentation time, followed by 20 minutes