First Session, 42nd Parliament

OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tursday, March 11, 2021 Morning Sitting Issue No. 27

THE HONOURABLE , SPEAKER

ISSN 1499-2175 PROVINCE OF (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871)

LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC

First Session, 42nd Parliament

SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Raj Chouhan

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ...... Hon. Minister of Advanced Education and Skills Training...... Hon. Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries...... Hon. Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Housing ...... Hon. , QC Minister of Children and Family Development ...... Hon. Minister of State for Child Care...... Hon. Minister of Citizens’ Services...... Hon. Minister of Education ...... Hon. Minister of Energy, Mines and Low Carbon Innovation ...... Hon. , QC Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy...... Hon. Minister of Finance ...... Hon. Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ...... Hon. Minister of State for Lands and Natural Resource Operations...... Hon. Minister of Health and Minister Responsible for Francophone Afairs...... Hon. Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ...... Hon. , QC Minister of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation...... Hon. Minister of State for Trade...... Hon. Minister of Labour ...... Hon. Minister of Mental Health and Addictions...... Hon. Minister of Municipal Afairs ...... Hon. Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ...... Hon. Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction...... Hon. Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport ...... Hon. Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure...... Hon. Minister of State for Infrastructure ...... Hon.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Ofcial Opposition...... Leader of the Tird Party ...... Deputy Speaker...... Assistant Deputy Speaker...... Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ...... Ronna-Rae Leonard Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel...... Seunghee Suzie Seo Clerk Assistant, Parliamentary Services...... Artour Sogomonian Clerk of Committees...... Jennifer Arril Clerk Assistant, Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ...... Susan Sourial Senior Research Analyst...... Karan Riarh Acting Sergeant-at-Arms...... Greg Nelson ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Alexis, Pam (BC NDP) ...... Abbotsford-Mission Abbotsford-Mission...... Anderson, Brittny (BC NDP) ...... Nelson-Creston Abbotsford South...... Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal Party)...... Penticton Abbotsford West...... Michael de Jong, QC Babchuk, Michele (BC NDP)...... North Island Boundary-Similkameen...... Bailey, Brenda (BC NDP)...... –False Creek Burnaby–Deer Lake...... Hon. Anne Kang Bains, Hon. Harry (BC NDP)...... Surrey-Newton Burnaby-Edmonds...... Hon. Raj Chouhan Banman, Bruce (BC Liberal Party) ...... Abbotsford South Burnaby-Lougheed...... Hon. Katrina Chen Beare, Hon. Lisa (BC NDP) ...... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Burnaby North ...... Begg, Garry (BC NDP)...... Surrey-Guildford Cariboo-Chilcotin ...... Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ...... Peace River South Cariboo North...... Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal Party)...... Prince George–Valemount Chilliwack ...... Brar, Jagrup (BC NDP)...... Surrey-Fleetwood Chilliwack-Kent ...... Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal Party) ...... Surrey South Columbia River–Revelstoke ...... Chandra Herbert, Spencer (BC NDP)...... Vancouver–West End –Burke Mountain...... Chant, Susie (BC NDP) ...... North Vancouver–Seymour Coquitlam-Maillardville ...... Hon. Selina Robinson Chen, Hon. Katrina (BC NDP) ...... Burnaby-Lougheed Courtenay-Comox...... Ronna-Rae Leonard Chouhan, Hon. Raj (BC NDP)...... Burnaby-Edmonds Cowichan Valley ...... Sonia Furstenau Chow, Hon. George (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Fraserview ...... Hon. Ravi Kahlon Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal Party)...... Columbia River–Revelstoke Delta South ...... Conroy, Hon. Katrine (BC NDP)...... Kootenay West Esquimalt-Metchosin ...... Hon. Mitzi Dean Coulter, Dan (BC NDP) ...... Chilliwack Fraser-Nicola ...... Cullen, Hon. Nathan (BC NDP) ...... Stikine Kamloops–North Tompson ...... Davies, Dan (BC Liberal Party)...... Peace River North Kamloops–South Tompson...... de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal Party)...... Abbotsford West Kelowna–Lake Country ...... Norm Letnick Dean, Hon. Mitzi (BC NDP) ...... Esquimalt-Metchosin Kelowna-Mission ...... Renee Merrifeld D’Eith, Bob (BC NDP) ...... Maple Ridge–Mission Kelowna West ...... Dix, Hon. Adrian (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Kingsway Kootenay East...... Doerkson, Lorne (BC Liberal Party) ...... Cariboo-Chilcotin Kootenay West...... Hon. Katrine Conroy Donnelly, Fin (BC NDP) ...... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Langford–Juan de Fuca ...... Hon. John Horgan Dykeman, Megan (BC NDP)...... Langley East Langley ...... Eby, Hon. David, QC (BC NDP)...... Vancouver–Point Grey Langley East...... Elmore, Mable (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Kensington Maple Ridge–Mission...... Bob D’Eith Farnworth, Hon. Mike (BC NDP) ...... Port Coquitlam Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows...... Hon. Lisa Beare Fleming, Hon. Rob (BC NDP) ...... Victoria–Swan Lake Mid Island–Pacifc Rim...... Hon. Josie Osborne Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ...... Cowichan Valley ...... Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Glumac, Rick (BC NDP) ...... –Coquitlam Nanaimo–North Cowichan...... Greene, Kelly (BC NDP) ...... Richmond-Steveston Nechako Lakes...... Halford, Trevor (BC Liberal Party)...... Surrey–White Rock Nelson-Creston ...... Heyman, Hon. George (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Fairview ...... Hon. Jennifer Whiteside Horgan, Hon. John (BC NDP) ...... Langford–Juan de Fuca North Coast ...... Kahlon, Hon. Ravi (BC NDP) ...... Delta North North Island...... Kang, Hon. Anne (BC NDP) ...... Burnaby–Deer Lake North Vancouver–Lonsdale...... Hon. Bowinn Ma Kirkpatrick, Karin (BC Liberal Party)...... –Capilano North Vancouver–Seymour...... Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal Party)...... Shuswap Oak Bay–Gordon Head...... Hon. Murray Rankin, QC Lee, Michael (BC Liberal Party)...... Vancouver-Langara Parksville-Qualicum...... Adam Walker Leonard, Ronna-Rae (BC NDP)...... Courtenay-Comox Peace River North ...... Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kelowna–Lake Country Peace River South ...... Lore, Grace (BC NDP)...... Victoria–Beacon Hill Penticton ...... Ma, Hon. Bowinn (BC NDP)...... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Port Coquitlam...... Hon. Mike Farnworth Malcolmson, Hon. Sheila (BC NDP)...... Nanaimo Port Moody–Coquitlam...... Mark, Hon. Melanie (BC NDP)...... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Powell River–Sunshine Coast...... Hon. Nicholas Simons Mercier, Andrew (BC NDP) ...... Langley Prince George–Mackenzie...... Merrifeld, Renee (BC Liberal Party)...... Kelowna-Mission Prince George–Valemount ...... Shirley Bond Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kamloops–North Tompson Richmond North Centre...... Morris, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ...... Prince George–Mackenzie Richmond-Queensborough...... Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal Party)...... Cariboo North ...... Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)...... Saanich North and the Islands Richmond-Steveston ...... Osborne, Hon. Josie (BC NDP)...... Mid Island–Pacifc Rim Saanich North and the Islands ...... Paddon, Kelli (BC NDP) ...... Chilliwack-Kent Saanich South ...... Hon. Lana Popham Paton, Ian (BC Liberal Party) ...... Delta South Shuswap...... Popham, Hon. Lana (BC NDP)...... Saanich South Skeena...... Ralston, Hon. Bruce, QC (BC NDP) ...... Surrey-Whalley Stikine...... Hon. Nathan Cullen Rankin, Hon. Murray, QC (BC NDP) ...... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Surrey-Cloverdale ...... Rice, Jennifer (BC NDP) ...... North Coast Surrey-Fleetwood...... Jagrup Brar Robinson, Hon. Selina (BC NDP)...... Coquitlam-Maillardville Surrey–Green Timbers...... Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal Party)...... Skeena Surrey-Guildford...... Routledge, Janet (BC NDP) ...... Burnaby North Surrey-Newton...... Hon. Harry Bains Routley, Doug (BC NDP)...... Nanaimo–North Cowichan Surrey-Panorama ...... Russell, Roly (BC NDP)...... Boundary-Similkameen Surrey South ...... Rustad, John (BC Liberal Party)...... Nechako Lakes Surrey-Whalley ...... Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Sandhu, Harwinder (BC NDP) ...... Vernon-Monashee Surrey–White Rock ...... Sharma, Niki (BC NDP)...... Vancouver-Hastings Vancouver-Fairview...... Hon. George Heyman Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal Party)...... Kootenay East Vancouver–False Creek...... Simons, Hon. Nicholas (BC NDP)...... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Vancouver-Fraserview...... Hon. George Chow Sims, Jinny (BC NDP) ...... Surrey-Panorama Vancouver-Hastings ...... Singh, Aman (BC NDP) ...... Richmond-Queensborough Vancouver-Kensington...... Singh, Rachna (BC NDP)...... Surrey–Green Timbers Vancouver-Kingsway...... Hon. Adrian Dix Starchuk, Mike (BC NDP) ...... Surrey-Cloverdale Vancouver-Langara...... Michael Lee Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kelowna West Vancouver–Mount Pleasant...... Hon. Melanie Mark Stone, Todd (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kamloops–South Tompson Vancouver–Point Grey ...... Hon. David Eby, QC Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal Party) ...... West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Vancouver-Quilchena...... , QC Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal Party)...... Fraser-Nicola Vancouver–West End ...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Walker, Adam (BC NDP)...... Parksville-Qualicum Vernon-Monashee ...... Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal Party) ...... Richmond North Centre Victoria–Beacon Hill...... Whiteside, Hon. Jennifer (BC NDP) ...... New Westminster Victoria–Swan Lake...... Hon. Rob Fleming Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal Party)...... Vancouver-Quilchena West Vancouver–Capilano...... Yao, Henry (BC NDP) ...... Richmond South Centre West Vancouver–Sea to Sky......

Party Standings: BC NDP 57; BC Liberal Party 28; BC Green Party 2

CONTENTS

Tursday, March 11, 2021 Morning Sitting Page

Routine Business

Statements (Standing Order 25B) ...... 657 Access to health care services in Kootenay East area and Angel Flight service T. Shypitka Response to overdose deaths A. Walker Hollyburn Family Services Society K. Kirkpatrick Willow Room project for women reporting violence to police K. Paddon Attacks on women in politics S. Furstenau COVID-19 response by Okanagan Spirits Craf Distillery H. Sandhu

Ministerial Statements ...... 659 Anniversary of declaration of COVID-19 pandemic Hon. J. Horgan S. Bond S. Furstenau

Oral Questions...... 661 COVID-19 vaccination plan approach and priorities S. Bond Hon. J. Horgan COVID-19 vaccine booking system R. Merrifeld Hon. A. Dix Panel report recommendations on protection of old-growth forests S. Furstenau Hon. K. Conroy Budget process and government spending M. Bernier Hon. S. Robinson T. Stone M. de Jong

Orders of the Day

Committee of the Whole House...... 666 Bill 6 — Home Owner Grant Amendment Act, 2021 (continued) M. Bernier Hon. S. Robinson

657

THURSDAY, MARCH 11, 2021 I would also like to thank the directors of the East Koo- tenay regional district for their keen judgment in assisting Te House met at 10:04 a.m. Angel Flight and securing this now Kootenay amenity.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.] RESPONSE TO OVERDOSE DEATHS

Routine Business A. Walker: Tis morning I would like to introduce to this House Stephen. As a teenager, Stephen enjoyed skate- Prayers and refections: G. Kyllo. boarding and playing video games. He spent time at [10:05 a.m.] cadets, where he had fun, developed close friends and great memories, though as he grew older, he began exper- Statements imenting with illicit drugs and eventually started to use (Standing Order 25B) regularly. Stephen was a good kid. As an adult, he found his passion for making jewelry, and he found stability in a ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE SERVICES supportive housing complex in Parksville. He wanted help, IN KOOTENAY EAST AREA AND and he was making progress, but then the worst happened. ANGEL FLIGHT SERVICE Stephen died alone in his home. He was 33 years old. Sev- eral drugs were found in his system, including toxic levels T. Shypitka: As I’ve stated in this House on numerous of fentanyl. occasions, access to health care in my riding of Kootenay His mother, Julia, through her grief and heartbreak, East is difcult, to say the least. At one time, a simple wants to be a voice for others. She wants to make sure that two- to three-hour drive to Alberta has been eliminated as no other mother, father, partner or child experiences the an option, and now costly and impractical options are to unnecessary loss that she did. In December of last year fnd your way over several mountain passes and 11-, 12-, alone, there were 154 illicit drug toxicity deaths in British 13-hour drive times, if you’re lucky. Columbia, and Stephen was one of them. But there is good news in this story. A service has been I urge my colleagues to make sure that people in their created that provides air transportation at no cost to communities are aware of local drug-checking services; patients requiring urgent care. Angel Flight East Kootenay of the Lifeguard app, where users will be automatically was founded in 2019 by Brent Bidston, president and lead connected with emergency services in the event of an pilot. Together with his wife and partner, Janet Bidston, unexpected overdose; of the non-emergency health and fellow pilot, Todd Weselake, this small but mighty information available through 811, including how to team of volunteers have helped over 120 patients from access alternatives to the toxic drug supply; and, of the East Kootenays access much-needed medical care in course, recognizing your local mental health, substance Kelowna since it was founded. Identifying a gap in ser- use and treatment services. vices, Angel Flight has now grown from Kootenay East to We need to have open conversations about this. We the Nelson, Creston and Invermere areas. need to eliminate the stigma associated with drug use, and Last Friday the director of the regional district of East we need to work together to save lives in all of our com- Kootenay voted unanimously in favour to fund Angel munities. Flight East Kootenay with a sustainable $500,000 pledge to greatly assist this game-changing not-for-proft organiza- HOLLYBURN FAMILY SERVICES SOCIETY tion. Tis money will greatly improve reliability and safety by purchasing a more capable aircraf, which will, hope- K. Kirkpatrick: Happy Tursday to everyone, although fully, include twin engines with pressurized cabins and today marks the grim anniversary of the World Health anti-icing capabilities. Improving reliability will give Angel Organization deeming the COVID-19 outbreak a global Flight more options for patient transportation, including pandemic. Our lives have changed signifcantly since that less cancellations due to volatile weather conditions and time, and non-proft heroes have stepped up to support quicker delivery time. those most impacted. Tat said, Kootenay East and other jurisdictions, like Over the last few months, I’ve had the great honour to Columbia River–Revelstoke, still have a mountain to climb get to know many more of the non-proft organizations on getting access to health care without fnancial and geo- in my riding of West Vancouver–Capilano and to see the graphical barriers. We need to do better to assure our cit- great work that they do, supporting the North Shore res- izens that they will not be forgotten in their greatest time idents. of need. [10:10 a.m.] I would like to thank and congratulate the team at Angel In mid-February, I had the pleasure of meeting with Joy Flight East Kootenay for their accomplishments so far and Hayden and David Ayriss of the Hollyburn Family Ser- their valued service. vices Society. Tis society’s focus is to put an end to social 658 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 11, 2021 issues within the community, ensuring that families and being believed, feelings of shame and embarrassment, lack children are safe from violence and receiving the tools and of support or not knowing how to report. support required to lead a life free of violence and oppres- So please know this. In Chilliwack-Kent, thanks to the sion. In 2020, the Hollyburn Family Services Society sup- hard work, partnerships and commitment of so many, you ported over 800 North Shore youth, seniors and families. can fle a report by calling the RCMP at 911 or the non- We have honoured women this week through Inter- emergency line, and you can ask to make your report at the national Women’s Day. We know that violence against Willow Room at Ann Davis. women has escalated during this pandemic. I’d like to Please join me in thanking the Ann Davis Transition shine a light on Hollyburn’s victim support program, society, Wilma House, Pearl Renewal Society, Women of which has done extraordinary work supporting victims Stó:lō and the RCMP domestic violence unit for the ini- of domestic violence, sexualized assault and criminal har- tiative, the work and the partnerships that created this assment. Victim support workers are highly-trained in space for women. trauma-informed counselling. We hear the term “trauma-informed” quite frequently, ATTACKS ON WOMEN IN POLITICS and the explanation of what it means is really quite simple. Tese trained counsellors approach their clients without S. Furstenau: According to a 2016 study by the Inter- judgment. Te question is always, although not asked, Parliamentary Union, 44 percent of female politicians “What happened to you?” rather than: “What did you do?” report having received threats of death, rape, assault or I don’t know that we can even begin to imagine the emo- abduction. Refecting on International Women’s Day, these tional and physical impact this kind of work happens on numbers are hard to bear. In the same year that the IPU those who do it. Hollyburn is also a partner in the North study came out, British MP Jo Cox was murdered in her Shore Integrated Domestic Violence Unit. constituency. Tere have been many other prominent No one goes into the non-proft sector to get rich. Tey assassinations of female politicians. do the work because they know how important it is. As Mexican mayor Gisela Mota, shot dead less than a day always, I want to remind everyone that non-profts rely on afer she took ofce. donations and supports from the communities they serve. Somali lawmaker Saado Ali Warsame, killed in a drive- Tank you again to Hollyburn Family Services and its by shooting in Mogadishu. team of extraordinary staf and board. Swedish foreign minister Anna Lindh, killed at the age of 46. WILLOW ROOM PROJECT FOR Sitara Achakzai, shot dead outside her home in Afghan- WOMEN REPORTING VIOLENCE TO POLICE istan. Again in Afghanistan, Hanifa Saf, head of women’s K. Paddon: I recently had the opportunity to tour a afairs, killed by a car bomb. unique space in our province called the Willow Room. Te Pakistan’s former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, assas- Willow Room was created through partnership between sinated. Ann Davis Transition Society, Wilma House, Pearl Renew- Aqila al-Hashimi, shot by six men near her home in al Society, Women of Stó:lō and the RCMP domestic Baghdad. violence unit, with the goal of ensuring that women who Galina Starovoitova, Russian democrat, attacked with a are reporting domestic, gender-based or sexual violence machine gun and pistol, killed instantly. are heard, supported and not further victimized. Perhaps most famously, in 1984, Indira Gandhi shot at Tis space is specially designed to give women a warm, home by members of her own security team. safe, supportive and non-institutional place to report to [10:15 a.m.] the RCMP. Tis 24-7 resource opened to serve our com- All of this happened before Donald Trump initiated the munity in December 2020 with a focus on providing a chant: “Lock her up.” trauma-informed, culturally sensitive environment for Consider that roughly eight in ten female politicians women to safely tell their stories when they are ready. also indicated that they were survivors of psychological Law enforcement plays a crucial role by using trauma- violence, hostile behaviour that causes fear or psychologic- informed interview techniques and fostering trust. al harm. Tat’s eight in ten of us here. Imagine you had to tell a stranger about the worst thing I’m one of those eight. I know I’m not alone. that ever happened to you — about the biggest hurt and We do not have to feed the culture of violence towards the most devastating betrayal — in a strange place, in each other, which disproportionately afects women. To detail, repeatedly. Once you imagine it, you may under- achieve better outcomes, we must work across party lines stand why it is estimated that only about 10 percent of to create a more welcoming environment so that women domestic sexual assault and gender-based violence is of colour, Black, Indigenous, LGBTQ2S+, cis and trans reported to police. You may understand that the most women will feel at ease in these halls that have for so long common reasons given for not reporting are the fear of not been dominated by white men. Thursday, March 11, 2021 British Columbia Debates 659

COVID-19 RESPONSE BY care service, child care operators, and many, many others. OKANAGAN SPIRITS CRAFT DISTILLERY Some have driven trucks to keep food on our shelves. Oth- ers have kept major infrastructure projects safely operat- H. Sandhu: Today I’m rising in this House to acknow- ing. Everyone has pitched in to practise social distancing, ledge and appreciate one of our businesses for their contri- to keep our hands clean, to wear masks and do whatever bution to our riding during the pandemic: Okanagan Spir- we can as individuals to protect ourselves, our families and its Craf Distillery, represented by Craf Distiller Guild of our communities. B.C., in Vernon and in Kelowna. Many people have faced loneliness. All of us have faced Teir distilleries have played a crucial role to help fatten uncertainty. Tis experience has changed us all. Te last the COVID-19 curve by providing thousands of litres of year has been difcult, but it has also shown the best of free hand sanitizers to many health care workers, front- British Columbia. line workers, including homeless shelters, women’s shel- [10:20 a.m.] ters, public daycare staf, cashiers at grocery stores and in Despite the strains and stresses, people have kept look- banks, postal workers and many more. Tis list grew over ing out for each other. I remember, as many will, standing the months, and Craf Distiller Guild of B.C. and their on my porch at seven o’clock banging pots to give a little bit hard-working staf selfessly kept their distillery’s opera- of hope and thanks to health care workers who were going, tion open during the pandemic in order to help many of in the most uncertain of times, with potentially inferior us and to meet the crucial demand for hand sanitizers and protective equipment, into health care units to protect and surface sanitizers. work and save those who had been aficted by COVID-19. By June 2020, they had also covered all family doctors’ Te challenges have been immense, not just in the ofces from Penticton to Revelstoke, the entire Nicola- health care sector but right across our economy. Despite Tompson region, as well as some hospitals. Tey also these strains, people have been doing the right thing. With expanded to cover north, central and south Okanagan very few exceptions, we have avoided racism and division, band ofces and a growing list of care homes. Businesses and the past year has seen extraordinary cooperation in like Okanagan Spirits Craf Distillery and other distilleries this House and across the country. in B.C. deserve all the appreciation we can provide to Now, with vaccines on the horizon, we have new hope. them. Every day people across will continue to work May I please ask members of this House to join me to fght the pandemic to protect themselves and their com- to share our great appreciation with everyone at the munities. Every vaccination makes all of us safer. Okanagan Spirits Craf Distillery and other distillers for But we are far from out of the woods. We know that. We their great contribution and hard work during the most understand that, and we’ll continue to collaborate in this difcult times. House, outside of this House and in our communities right across British Columbia to pay tribute to those who have Ministerial Statements lost their lives, to acknowledge and recognize the sacrifces people have made, to do our best to do what we can about ANNIVERSARY OF DECLARATION the loneliness and the uncertainty that all of us are experi- OF COVID-19 PANDEMIC encing. I believe, and I know you will agree, that although this Hon. J. Horgan: It is with some sadness that I rise today has been a challenging year, the best of B.C. is ahead of us. to acknowledge the one-year anniversary of the World If we continue to focus with uniform purpose on keeping Health Organization declaration of the COVID-19 world- ourselves and our communities safe, we will get out of this, wide pandemic. In the weeks and months that followed and we will be able to recognize those who lost their lives, that announcement, all of our lives were turned upside those who have made extraordinary sacrifces all for the down. To date, 85,000 British Columbians have fallen sick betterment of British Columbia. from COVID-19, and almost 1,400 have lost their lives. Today is a sad day but is also a day for hope and optim- Today British Columbia joins with provinces and the ism. I believe that hope and optimism will get us through federal government across the country in fying our fag the next days, the next weeks and the next months as we at half-staf to acknowledge the loss of life as a result of prepare for a better British Columbia. the global pandemic. So much has been asked of British Columbians over the past 12 months as we fght COV- S. Bond: I want to thank the Premier for his comments, ID-19. Many people have lost their jobs or had their hours and today I want to bring some remarks on behalf of the reduced. Small businesses have closed their doors to help ofcial opposition. protect customers and workers. Students have had their Today we commemorate one year since the declar- schooling interrupted. ation of a global pandemic, afer the unprecedented Others, despite the risks, have kept doing important spread of COVID-19. Our fag fying at half-mast is a work. Some of those are on the front lines of our health 660 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 11, 2021 visible symbol of the impact of the last year on our home and the amazing people who live here. While we province and our world. may disagree about many things in this House, I know we Words can paint a very real picture of the past 12 can all agree that British Columbians came together as the months: epidemic, COVID-19, pandemic, social distan- people stayed apart. cing, “Wash your hands,” Zoom calls, “You’re on mute,” We are proud, we are grateful, and we are hopeful that Room Rater, loneliness, loss, separation, kindness and the kindness, care and compassion that British Columbi- compassion — month afer month afer month. Somehow ans demonstrated will be a lasting legacy of our pandemic it feels so much longer than a year. experience. Tat would make this year memorable for all None of us in this chamber could have imagined the the right reasons. heart-wrenching scenes or the moments of great inspir- ation that we have seen over the past 52 weeks. Since S. Furstenau: Tank you to the Premier and the Leader the pandemic started in our province, we’ve experienced of the Ofcial Opposition for their heartfelt and inspiring 85,000 cases of COVID-19, over 4,500 hospitalizations and words as we mark this day of observance. A year ago today nearly 1,400 deaths, each death heartbreaking for loved COVID-19 was declared a global pandemic, and our lives ones, for communities, for British Columbians, for all of were changed in ways that we could have never imagined. us. We share that sorrow and loss — each case impacting Acknowledging the people we’ve lost further allows us individuals, their families, their colleagues and those who to heal, although I know that that process, for many, is only cared for them as well. just beginning. Being unable to gather to grieve this year Te pandemic has impacted every aspect of our lives — is a staggeringly cruel element of this pandemic. Today I how we live, how we work, how we connect, how we care hold everyone who has passed and all who have lost loved for one another. It has been devastating. Families have lost ones in my heart. loved ones. Tere have been tragic outcomes in long-term I’d also like to acknowledge those who have survived care, job loss, businesses struggling to survive and a signi- COVID-19 but are struggling with long-term symptoms. fcant toll on people’s mental well-being. We will strive to better protect and support you every day. But through it all, we have seen the strength and the Soon, I hope, we will once again be able to gather safely, determination of British Columbians, especially those embrace, share a meal and follow the customs, religious who have carefully followed all the guidelines and have practices and ceremonies that have guided us through tra- done everything they have been asked to do and more. gedies for generations. It has been a horrible, horrible year. Te resilience of British Columbians has been nothing But we are fnding our way through, thanks to the con- short of remarkable. Tey have been innovative, creative tinued dedication and service of front-line workers: health and persistent. care providers, teachers, frst responders, janitorial staf, [10:25 a.m.] grocery store workers, those who care for our elders and Every member in this House has witnessed countless children, the people who feed us, the people who ensure acts of kindness and compassion. I know that because my essential goods and services are getting to where they need family experienced them personally. I love the phrase that to be, transit workers. was shared so ofen during the pandemic: “And the world Afer all we’ve been through, our world will be forever came together as the people stayed apart.” British Colum- changed. We have learned unequivocally that everything is bians did come together, and none more heroically than interconnected, that nothing matters more than the health our front-line workers. Tey are grocery clerks and truck and well-being of the people we love and that we are all drivers, transit workers, care aides, nurses and doctors, willing to make incredible sacrifces to protect people we frefghters, paramedics, teachers, police ofcers, child care have never met. I have a glimmer of hope that some of the workers. Te list goes on. changes we will carry forward will make our province and Tey went to work so that we could stay home, and we our world a kinder, healthier, more just and caring place. are so grateful. Who will ever forget, as the Premier refer- enced, the nightly scene of people banging pots and pans Mr. Speaker: Let’s have a moment of silence in the on their balconies, at the end of their driveways and in the memory of all those who have passed due to COVID-19 parking lots of health care facilities? and to pray for the loved ones and the families. Here in the Legislature, we must also recognize the tire- less eforts of Dr. Bonnie Henry and her team — also the [Te House observed a moment of silence.] Minister of Health and the Health Ministry team — for their non-stop eforts to deal with the pandemic. Mr. Speaker: Tank you, Members. Today we look back at a year that was like none other, [10:30 a.m.] and we look forward with cautious optimism and with a hope that, not long from now, we will be able to be togeth- er again with our families, in communities, and with an even greater sense of pride for this incredible place we call Thursday, March 11, 2021 British Columbia Debates 661

Oral Questions communities. Tat’s what Dr. Henry has made abundantly clear through her regular briefngs, and that’s our commit- COVID-19 VACCINATION PLAN ment today. APPROACH AND PRIORITIES Mr. Speaker: Te Leader of the Ofcial Opposition on S. Bond: Te Premier spoke eloquently in his remarks a supplemental. just moments ago about the arrival of vaccines in British Columbia and the hope that it brings. We certainly agree S. Bond: I appreciate the Premier’s response. I think with that. British Columbians and, certainly, members on this side of Te AstraZeneca vaccine has arrived in British Colum- the House do have some very specifc questions about the bia, and we all know that it comes with an expiry date. timelines for providing the information. British Columbians are still waiting for details about how We all recognize that the pandemic…. In fact, we just exactly that vaccine will be used. talked about that in very poignant terms. We recognize the We have raised this question before and have asked that year that it has been for British Columbia and the world. the Premier provide clarity on the order and the criteria Te pandemic has been here for a year. We have celebrated for vaccinating priority groups. I know that members in and honoured and respected front-line workers. When we this House and, certainly, members in the opposition have think about that group…. heard from workers, from teachers, from child care work- Te Premier is accurate. Tere is a long list: teachers, ers, from public transit workers and, of course, from frst frst responders, dentists, agricultural workers, transit responders. workers. Tese groups are waiting. Tey have been patient, I would once again ask the Premier today — I know resilient and hard-working. Tey deserve to know where he’s aware that AstraZeneca comes with an expiry date — they ft on the priority list. We know that it’s important. if the Premier could share with us and, specifcally, with Tey’re critical front-line workers, and they are facing those critical front-line workers the plan for the use of risks every single day. AstraZeneca. With the deadline that is attached to AstraZeneca, could the Premier at least indicate the prioritization, which Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the Leader of the Opposition workers can expect to get a vaccination, and when? for her question. It is absolutely true that the frst round of AstraZeneca does have a best before date of April 2. Dr. Hon. J. Horgan: Again, Dr. Henry is the expert in this Henry and her team and Dr. Ballem and the immunization area. She is working with the immunization team to make team are looking carefully at where we can best deploy that sure that we don’t leave one drop of vaccine underutilized precious resource to meet the needs of front-line workers over the next number of weeks and months. and a whole host of others. I want to pause, though, and speak a little bit more com- Te member talked about a range of workers who are prehensively on the context for the member’s question. concerned about their place in the queue. I have to say…. We’ve all agreed and acknowledged that there is no short- I’m sure that the members in this House have received age of people deserving of immediate immunization. But the same amount of correspondence that I have from fre- our challenge is not with this federal government, not even fghters, nurses, nurse practitioners and paramedics — the with the last federal government. Successive federal gov- range of front-line workers. Te list is long. Te mail is ernments going back 25 years let our ability to immunize about two and a half inches thick. ourselves atrophy. Every argument is a valid argument. Every one is care- [10:35 a.m.] fully considered by the public health ofce. Dr. Henry will I’m not blaming anyone when I say that. I’m just stating be deploying the resource as she best sees ft to contain the facts. Our ability to do what other jurisdictions are outbreaks. We’ve heard, of course, and you know, that doing has been compromised. We now acknowledge that, there will be a blanket immunization process underway and thank goodness, the life sciences sector here in British in Prince Rupert, Port Ed and . Tere are Columbia is well placed to lead the renewal of that ability examples like that across the province. here in B.C. I expect further questions on this. I’ll leave it to the Having said all of that, we’re dependent on ofshore sup- Minister of Health to go into more precision on how Dr. plies. We saw a very disappointing drop in delivery in early Henry plans to deploy this. February that took a little bit of the wind out of all of our I want to assure the member, all members of the House sails. We were absolutely enthusiastic about the prospect and, indeed, all British Columbians that we are going to of mass immunization, starting with the most vulnerable, use what is now a precious resource, which is coming in making sure that we could target the populations that the increasing abundance, that is fundamentally important to member and I agree are critical to the well-being of our us getting out of this. We’re going to deploy that resource communities. as we see best ft to protect the most vulnerable in our Again, with a limited supply, we’re leaving it up to Dr. 662 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 11, 2021

Henry to give us the advice that we believe will best allow Mr. Speaker: Te member for Kelowna-Mission on a us to meet the needs of everyone. Every vaccination supplemental. delivered makes us a little bit safer, whether we’re front- line workers, whether we’re elected representatives, wheth- R. Merrifeld: Tanks for that answer. Based on that, we er we’re family members in the various component parts only have about 7.4 million more bookings to go. of our beautiful province. Te province of Quebec opened online registrations I again will allow the Minister of Health, I’m sure, in over two weeks ago. Tey registered 100,000 people on subsequent questions, to get into more precision on this. day 1. I thank the member for her question. I want to acknow- Laurie Dahlgren is one of thousands of frustrated Brit- ledge, as she has, that we need to make sure we’re speaking ish Columbians. She says: “Tey’ve known this has been with one voice coming out of this. I know the two of us will coming for a long time. Tey’ve had plenty of time to get keep doing that. ready, and it’s unacceptable…. It should be online right now…. It just doesn’t make any sense, in this day and age, COVID-19 VACCINE BOOKING SYSTEM that they couldn’t get with the program.” Again to the Premier, why is there no online system R. Merrifeld: As mentioned, we have a limited and now? sporadic supply. As the AstraZeneca vaccine arrives and larger and larger numbers of British Columbians need to Hon. A. Dix: In the frst phase of the pandemic, public be booked for appointments, we only have one health health organized 1,390 clinics across B.C., delivering full authority in this province with an online system. immunizations in long-term care and assisted living, to Tis is the most important public health efort in our many front-line health care workers, of course, and to lifetime, but this government has failed to create an online many other vulnerable people, including people in rural registration option despite having a year to get ready. and remote Indigenous communities. To the Premier, why is there no universal online book- [10:40 a.m.] ing system? As vaccine came, that vaccine was delivered into people’s arms in an efcient way, representing, I think, Hon. A. Dix: Tank you to the hon. member for her an extraordinary collective efort by everybody in public question. health care, and that is what we’re continuing to do. I want to express my appreciation to the Leader of the Te main limitation, as the member will know and as Opposition, to the former Leader of the Opposition, the the Premier noted, is the amount of vaccine we have. We member for Vancouver-Quilchena, the Health critic, the have organized, based on very important principles. Tose former Health critic, the member for Kelowna–Lake principles, most importantly, are to protect those who have Country and the leader of the Green Party for all of their the highest vulnerability to COVID-19 frst. questions but also their support and contribution and acts Tat’s the reason we started with long-term care. We’ve of personal generosity over the past year, which I deeply seen the efectiveness of the vaccine in that venue, and now appreciate. we’re working through, based on age, the general popula- With respect to the booking system for COVID-19 vac- tion. We’ll also be using the AstraZeneca resource we have cinations, as members will know, starting at noon today, received. As the Leader of the Opposition noted, 68,000 we are advancing to the next group of British Columbians doses of AstraZeneca have now arrived. We’ll be receiving, in our age-based efort — those born in 1936 or before, in late April, a further 136,000 and, in late May, a further between the ages of 85 to 89. Over the last number of days, 68,000 doses of AstraZeneca. as of nine o’clock today, 41,661 people have booked their Te priority right now, as the Premier has said and appointments. as Dr. Henry has said, is dealing with outbreaks and I want to acknowledge the excellent work, in the last exposures, in workplaces right now in the most high- number of days, of Telus and of the health authorities in risk industries, to COVID-19. Tat is happening now improving systems and responses to people such that in and will happen with the frst doses of COVID-19, health authorities today there is a one-minute wait time, 41,000 of which, of the 68,000, will expire on April 2. on average, this morning for calls that we’ve received. So Tat is the approach being taken there. Ten next week all of that is good. we’ll be presenting the plan for the following 204,000 As you know, for the 75-to-79 category, starting with doses in the next two rounds. that, and then, afer that, in the pandemic…. Tere will Tis efort, I think — the immunization efort in B.C. also be, in addition to call centres, an online platform — has been highly organized. We organized and delivered at that time. Tis was part of the presentation that was vaccine to long-term care before other jurisdictions, made to the opposition and everyone else a week ago last including some of the ones mentioned by the hon. mem- Monday, and we should see that soon. ber. I think the team who is leading this immunization campaign in public health is doing an exceptional job. Thursday, March 11, 2021 British Columbia Debates 663

PANEL REPORT RECOMMENDATIONS deferral, and when the minister said she asked the panel to ON PROTECTION OF OLD-GROWTH FORESTS advise, that is exactly what they’ve done. What I pointed out in my question, hon. Speaker, is that S. Furstenau: Today marks six months since the NDP the government has not responded to that advice that was government released the old growth strategic review panel given — and that promise that was made by the Premier report — although, to be clear, this government has had during the September election campaign — that all recom- the report nearly a year. Tey received it in April 2020, mendations of that panel’s report would be followed by but chose not to share it with the public until September. this government. Te report called for a paradigm shif in our approach to [10:45 a.m.] forestry in British Columbia, especially our ongoing gross A necessary frst step is the immediate interim protec- mismanagement of old growth. tion across B.C. to create some breathing room and protect One of the key recommendations is to immediately what we have lef. defer logging of the most at-risk old growth to prevent loss My question, again, is to the Minister of Forests, Lands, of rare ecosystems. Te report specifed that this must hap- Natural Resource Operations. We can’t aford years of pen within six months. Here we are, and this government delay on this anymore. When will she fulfl the promise still has not taken any meaningful action to protect these that was made to implement the old-growth panel recom- forests. Instead, we are losing critical old-growth stands, as mendations, beginning with immediate interim protec- the old strategy of talk and log continues. tions in our high-risk, old-growth forest? My question, hon. Speaker, is to the Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations. It has now been six Hon. K. Conroy: I’d like to correct some inaccuracies months since government released this report, and many from the member. We have taken some important frst months into her tenure as minister. Where is the action steps when it comes to taking action to protect old growth that was promised to protect our most endangered old- and implement the recommendations from the report. growth forests? Te independent panel recommended we involve Indi- genous governments and organizations within the frst six Hon. K. Conroy: I thank the Leader of the Tird Party months of releasing the report. We have done that and for this question. It’s important to remember that for too continue to engage with Indigenous governments and long, there has been a divisive and patchwork approach organizations on this. to how old-growth forests are managed in our province. Te panel also recommended we take immediate Tose who are calling for a return to the status quo are action to protect ecosystems at very high risk. We have putting B.C.’s majestic old growth and vital biodiversity at also done that. For example, over 170,000 hectares of old risk, and those who are calling for an immediate morator- growth in the Clayoquot Sound. About 1,000 hectares of ium are ignoring the needs of thousands of workers and old growth in Stockdale Creek. Almost 10,000 hectares families in forest-dependent communities right across our in upper Southgate River. Tis coastal rainforest is home province. to wildlife and multiple species of salmon. And that is We want old-growth forests to be appreciated by people just to name a few. today and in the years to come. It’s also a priority for We’ve also initiated action on two other recommend- our government to support good jobs for people in B.C.’s ations aimed at improving public information and com- forestry sector. Tat’s why our government asked the inde- pliance. And while we have taken these important frst pendent panel to advise us on how we can do better when steps, as recommended by the panel, within six months, it comes to protecting our old-growth forests. Our govern- we know there is much more work to do. We are dedicated ment is dedicated to implementing the recommendations to continuing in this important work with government-to- to ensure new, holistic approaches to how we manage B.C.’s government discussions with Indigenous leaders, talking old-growth forests. to our partners in labour, industry, environmental organ- izations and communities. Mr. Speaker: Te Leader of the Tird Party on a supple- We have taken those frst initial steps. Tere is more to mental. do, and we are committed to following the recommenda- tions of the old-growth report. S. Furstenau: Let’s just go through that answer a little bit. A divisive and patchwork response is actually resulting BUDGET PROCESS in particularly divisive and patchwork old-growth forests AND GOVERNMENT SPENDING that are lef in this province and which are diminishing by the day. Te minister talks about an immediate morator- M. Bernier: Te Premier is asking this House to ium, which is not what the panel recommended. Tey approve another $13 billion without telling anyone how recommended six months of work with a deadline for it will be spent, in defance of the Financial Administra- tion Act. 664 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 11, 2021

Te last time we approved $1.5 billion without know- COVID recovery rebate. He has completely botched the ing how it would be spent, the Premier used that to craf small business recovery grant program. He has delayed the his own election platform and then never even got that budget and quarterly reports, blaming that on an election money out the door. We’ve seen nothing but a botched which he called. small business recovery grant, delayed COVID rebate Now he doesn’t seem to care about B.C.’s budget trans- program and little in the way of any accountability from parency laws. this government. My question is this. How are we supposed to give the How can the Premier rightly ask for another mystery Premier a blank cheque for $13 billion with no budget and fund of $13 billion when we have no idea how that money no spending plan? is going to be spent? Hon. S. Robinson: Well, the members opposite will Hon. S. Robinson: Let’s be really clear. We are in a pan- know full well that we do interim supply every single demic. We’ve been here for a year. Everyone here in this spring. Given the state of afairs around this pandemic, it’s House has acknowledged how important it is to support absolutely critical that we continue to do the work that people. We’ve been here in this very hybrid style of doing British Columbians depend on us for, which is to be there the people’s work and recognizing how important it is to for them, to make sure that those supports are there. support people. Tat’s exactly what we’ve been doing this In fact, the member opposite mentioned the B.C. recov- entire year. I want to thank the members opposite for their ery beneft. Well, I’m very happy to rise in this House and collaboration. point out that 2.3 million people have received a recov- We are still in the pandemic. We’re going to continue ery beneft. Tey have received a recovery beneft. Tat to support people here in British Columbia. We’re going amounts to well over $1 billion, and not only that, that’s $1 to continue to support businesses in British Columbia billion that’s going into the local economies. because that’s what they need from their government. Interjections. M. Bernier: Let’s be clear. Te last time we’ve seen this type of disregard for provincial fnancial rules was in the Mr. Speaker: Members, let’s listen to the answer, please. 1990s, when the NDP government presented the infamous fudge-it budget. Hon. S. Robinson: I want to tell members a story about Te Premier should know this all too well. He was work- what it really means for communities around this ing in the Ministry of Finance at that time. Te now Health province. I heard from someone, a friend of mine whose Minister was the principal secretary for NDP Glen Clark, mother is 75 years old and was anxious about going online. Premier at the time. And this Premier’s chief of staf was She went online. She got her recovery beneft within three also working back then in Glen Clark’s ofce. Seems the or four days, and then she did a Zoom call with two of her same players are back on the feld, and history is now elderly friends. repeating itself. Tey were making plans about where they were going Will the Premier admit he’s in violation of the purpose to go in their community to spend the recovery beneft, of the Financial Administration Act by asking for another because that money is circulating in communities. It’s $13 billion without even showing anybody how that making a diference for British Columbian businesses. money is going to be spent? It’s making a diference for British Columbian com- munities, and it is helping to take care of all of us Hon. S. Robinson: Well, back in the ’90s, I was raising through this pandemic. some small babies. It was a very busy time for me, so I don’t know what the member is referring to. I wasn’t here Mr. Speaker: Te member for Kamloops–South in this place. Tompson on a supplemental. [10:50 a.m.] Again, I want to be very clear. We have been in a pan- T. Stone: Well, the Premier has delayed the budget. He’s demic. Every one here stood in this place today acknow- delayed the quarterly reports. He’s expanded the use of ledging how difcult it has been for so many, the sacrifces special warrants. He hasn’t released the Telus contract, people have made, those who have been going to work to which we’ve been calling for all week. He hid a critical make sure that we were healthy. long-term-care report during the recent provincial elec- Te demand on government has been to be there for tion, and now the Premier wants to spend $13 billion people. We have been there for people. We will continue without a budget and no spending plan, no details. to be there for people, because that’s the kind of govern- So my question, again, to the Premier: why is he, bit by ment we are. bit, manipulating B.C.’s budget process, and why does he no longer care about B.C.’s budget transparency laws? T. Stone: Well, the Premier has, indeed, bungled his Thursday, March 11, 2021 British Columbia Debates 665

Hon. S. Robinson: Well, I think British Columbians spin a narrative that is so far from reality that I think know exactly how much this government cares about British Columbians should be embarrassed at the ofcial them. Tat’s why we have been delivering for them. Tat’s opposition. why we have recovery benefts. Tat’s why we have busi- Tere is a pandemic still, hon. Member. We just spoke ness recovery opportunities. It is why we are making sure about that today, recognizing the sacrifces and the chal- that we have robust plans in place to get the vaccinations lenges that so many British Columbians have endured for into people’s arms. British Columbians know very much 12 months — the sacrifces that they have made by going how much their government cares about them. to work, by taking care of our children, by caring for our aging parents, by making sure there are groceries there for M. de Jong: Well, as we’ve heard, there is another us when we need them. anniversary taking place this spring. It was 25 years ago Just as everybody else has really been challenged to that the most notorious example of budgetary manip- accommodate this change, there have been some changes, ulation and chicanery took place — the NDP fudge-it as a result of the pandemic, here before this House. We are budget. in an unprecedented time. Tere’s a tremendous amount Te Finance Minister says, “ancient history,” except it of work that needs to go into making sure that British Col- was the history of the Premier. It was the history of the umbians continue to get the supports that they need. Health Minister, the history of the Premier’s chief of staf. Tat’s why we’re delivering the budget on April 20, hon. Hey, the band’s back together again. Member. You will see a budget that will detail exactly how we will move forward, continuing to protect British Col- Interjections. umbians, and build a road for economic recovery.

Mr. Speaker: Members, let’s listen to the question. Mr. Speaker: Te member for Abbotsford West on a supplemental. M. de Jong: Te Budgetary Blues Brothers are back on the road, and they’re playing the same playlist. You know, M. de Jong: What is clear and becomes increasingly over the last three years…. more clear every day is that this government, this Premier and apparently this Finance Minister are incapable of abid- Interjections. ing by the basic legal requirements of budgeting that, by [10:55 a.m.] the way, earned this province the reputation as a leader in Canada — not a leader, the leader — for transparent and M. de Jong: You can always tell when the government is responsible budgeting. Talk about fscal sleight of hand. uncomfortable, can’t you, Mr. Speaker? I’m waiting for the minister to tell me what part of what I’m about to say is inaccurate. Te Premier and the Finance Mr. Speaker: Member, continue. Minister are actually asking the House to agree to this. Tey are asking the House to agree that last year’s year pre- M. de Jong: Over the last three years, this Premier and pandemic budget will be deemed to be this year’s budget. this government have steadily dismantled the very stat- Tey will deem it to be this year’s budget so that they can utory safeguards that were put in place afer the fudge- spend $13 billion. Now, if anything I have just said is inac- it budget to guard against budgetary chicanery. And now, curate, the minister can stand up and rebut it. led by the same people that were involved in that, they are Te NDP must be the only government in the entire seeking spending authority for $13 billion without a single world using a pre-pandemic 2020 budget as the basis for line describing what that money will be spent for. spending authority over a year later, in the midst of a pan- Not only have they not provided a budget for the com- demic-plagued economy. ing fscal year, and here’s the really fascinating part; they [11:00 a.m.] have tied spending for the next three months to — get this Tis is my question. Why is the NDP consistently incap- — the budget that was presented 13 months ago, which able of following the basic rules around responsible and the Premier himself acknowledged wasn’t accurate three transparent budgeting, and why does the Premier believe weeks afer it was presented. that his government should be given permission to spend How can British Columbians have any confdence what- $13 billion on the basis of absolutely zero in the way of soever in a government that is ignoring the legal require- description and by tying that spending to a budget that ments of responsible budgeting and basing its spending he himself acknowledged was out of date days afer it was plans on a budget that the Premier himself acknowledged tabled 13 months ago?? was out of date days afer it was presented in this House 13 months ago? Hon. S. Robinson: Te member opposite mentions transparency. Well, I seem to recall that there was an ICBC Hon. S. Robinson: Certainly, the member is trying to document, and pages got torn out. Wasn’t that when they 666 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 11, 2021 were on this side of the House? Tere’s something about Hon. S. Robinson: Te answer is that it depends. It that. So I don’t think that the folks over on the other side depends on whether the First Nation is the taxing author- can say much about transparency. ity. In some cases, it is a municipal government that is a What British Columbians need to know is that we have taxing authority, depending on how it’s established. If it’s demonstrated our commitment as a government to be a First Nation taxing authority, these amendments have there for them. We have brought in supports; we’ve absolutely no change. brought in services. We have been taking care of busi- [11:10 a.m.] nesses and people — their health care needs. We have been there for them. We’re going to continue to be there for M. Bernier: Just to confrm, though. Te minister said them. I’m very proud of what our government has done at the very onset of this that the First Nations weren’t and what we’re going to keep doing. impacted at all. So UNDRIP wasn’t considered — what we passed in this House. First Nations weren’t consulted [End of question period.] on this bill at all. Did I hear her correctly at the begin- ning of this? Orders of the Day Hon. S. Robinson: I appreciate the people speaking in Hon. M. Farnworth: I call committee stage, Bill 6, my ear and all of their work on this. Home Owner Grant Act. Te member has been asking about treaty lands and the [11:05 a.m.] role of First Nations. Because we’re taking…. Te Home Owner Grant Amendment Act doesn’t afect Indigenous Committee of the Whole House Peoples wholesale, except in the case where they pay taxes to municipality, for example. It’s just transferring over the BILL 6 — HOME OWNER GRANT program. Tose treaty First Nations that are the taxing AMENDMENT ACT, 2021 authority — it doesn’t have any impact on them. Should (continued) they want to talk with us about any change, we’re certainly open to those conversations. Te House in Committee of the Whole on Bill 6; S. Chandra Herbert in the chair. M. Bernier: Well, I’m probably not going to expect an answer from the minister, and I’m not going to go down Te committee met at 11:06 a.m. too long on this issue. It just does surprise me from that, though. When we stood in this House and we passed On clause 20 (continued). UNDRIP, the very frst thing that this government said is that with every bill that was going to be in front of this M. Bernier: I’m almost fnished on clause 20. I just want House, they would be consulting and working with First to bring us back to where we were a couple of days ago Nations. Obviously that was done, then. now, I guess, on this bill. Obviously, in clause 20, we’re Te minister is saying this doesn’t afect or impact First talking about the whole application process for the grants. Nations at all in the province. I’m assuming that consulta- One of the areas I didn’t canvass yet…. I just want to tion was done. Does she have a document she can table maybe just preface it by saying I’m not trying to make the in the House today to show that they have allowed this to minister down any rabbit hole with these questions. Tese proceed afer consultation and that it doesn’t afect them? are legitimate questions I’m just concerned about, and I’m hearing from people. It’s more of an explanatory oppor- Hon. S. Robinson: Well, keeping in mind that we’re tunity as well. simply centralizing and modernizing delivery of the We’ve talked about people within the municipalities. homeowner grant program, we’re not changing eligibility We’ve talked about regional districts and the regional requirements. Te Home Owner Grant Amendment Act districts which mostly have been either on phone or does not afect Indigenous People in B.C. in a unique way, online — the minister acknowledged earlier — which is and we have confrmed that there’s no notifcation require- now what we’re moving to for municipalities when or if ment under UNDRIP. this bill passes. My frst question and thought is: how does it work for M. Bernier: Who confrmed that there was no notifca- First Nations on reserve land? Can the minister explain? tion required? Did the First Nations Leadership Council or Now, I know it’s federal, so there are diferences around somebody say to the minister and to government: “Don’t this. I think she and I both know the answer, but I have worry about contacting us”? Or did the minister or her had people in the public ask me about this. Can she just staf make that determination? put some clarifcation around reserve lands, please? [11:15 a.m.] Thursday, March 11, 2021 British Columbia Debates 667

Hon. S. Robinson: As part of a matter of course since process, for every single bill we make, that determination the passing of UNDRIP, we consult with legal counsel that is made about our legal obligations. understands the minutia of that legislation, and they I look forward to continued work with First Nations to provide legal advice about what the obligations are. We fol- make sure that there’s justice and reconciliation happening low their legal advice. on the ground.

M. Bernier: Tat’s not what was discussed in this Clause 20 approved. House. At no time do I remember the Premier or any min- ister saying that they would be determining through leg- On clause 21. al counsel whether the government chose to consult with First Nations or not. Everybody stood in this House and M. Bernier: In reading through clause 21 here, it’s my said that First Nations would be consulted on every law, understanding that it adds new sections related to the every bill, before it was brought to this House. At no time adjustment of grants — allows for grants to be adjusted if was there a caveat put in by anyone that I remember. an applicant is entitled to more money than they received. I stand to be corrected if the minister wants to correct My frst question on this section, when I’m going me and say: “No, we stood in this House and said we through this: will adjustments be reviewed and made by would not consult on every bill, that we would only seek grant administrators as part of the administration process, legal counsel.” But I was here that day when there was a or will individuals themselves need to apply for an adjust- lot of pomp and circumstance in this facility around the ment for an amount that they receive? UNDRIP bill. Now we’ve seen, for almost every bill that’s [11:20 a.m.] hit this House, the government now tries to hide behind, “Well, we’ve sought legal counsel, and we don’t have to Hon. S. Robinson: Te answer is both. Te grant consult with First Nations,” which brings us back to: then administrator will do periodic reviews — I guess from an why did the government put so much fanfare around a bill audit sort of perspective — to make sure that people are to begin with, if they weren’t actually going to follow that getting their full entitlement. As well, the applicant is also bill? to make a request. Tis is why we’re hearing comments out there. It was all politics. It was not actually for First Nations. My ques- M. Bernier: We’re just trying to follow through with tion…. I’m going to move on, because I think I’ve made that. So the applicant is supposed to make a request. Tere my point. Te minister has acknowledged how she are times, then, if the administrator is only doing an audit chooses to answer this, and government has acknowledged and the person doesn’t make the request, when things their fact that they’re not following through with the don’t match up? I’m assuming the audit isn’t done on every promises that they made in this House. single 1.1 million households, so it would be sporadic or Just more on the technical point. Te minister answered however the administrator chooses to do that. I think the a question a second ago around First Nations treaty land. minister acknowledged this before, but just for clarity: Is there any diference for a First Nations person who lives there are times, then, if it’s not caught in the audit and if it’s of reserve, who holds title of a house of reserve, applying not caught by the person themselves that obviously things for a homeowner’s grant? Are they treated the same and don’t match up and the proper grants weren’t administered equal as everybody else? or allowed?

Hon. S. Robinson: Well, directly to the member’s spe- Hon. S. Robinson: And hence, I think this is a good cifc question, yes. Tey’re treated like everyone else. Noth- rationale for transferring the program centrally, because ing has changed in terms of the context about who gets it’ll be a more robust application. We’ll be able to catch their homeowner’s grant. those examples where people night not realize that they’re I think it’s really important to get on the record that now eligible for the additional seniors beneft, for example, the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act because they have to put in their birth year, and it will is legislation that this House adopted. For every single automatically let them know what they’re entitled to. bill that comes forward, it gets vetted through that legis- Whereas in the olden days of pen and paper, you might lation. Tat’s what legal counsel does. Tey are trained not do that calculation. You do the calculation yourself, so in the minutia of that bill. Tey provide advice for every you might miss that opportunity. We are expecting that it single bill that this government brings forward, look at the will actually catch those opportunities more efciently so requirements that we have as government in relation to that we would actually see more people get their full enti- that bill. tlement. Tere is certainly lots of work to do, for sure, about con- tinuing to follow through on our commitment as a govern- M. Bernier: Tank you to the minister for that answer. ment. We’re committed to keep doing that. As part of the It gets a little convoluted, a little confusing sometimes for 668 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 11, 2021 these. I know the minister is probably very thankful herself Hon. S. Robinson: If it’s in a municipal area, it would be to have people in her ear, as she continues to say. I want to a municipality. again thank staf for helping both of us out in the House here as we work through this to make sure we’re getting Clauses 21 to 23 inclusive approved. the information out for people. Under subsection 10.2(4) of this part of the bill. I want On clause 24. to read out, in (d) — this will explain a little bit of why I’m asking the questions, trying to understand this: “despite M. Bernier: Again, I know there are a lot of changes the cancellation, the previously approved grant applied or going through in order to enable the province to bring this otherwise dealt with under this act is deemed to have in. Part of section 24 is enabling the reporting to and from been applied or otherwise dealt with in relation to the new province and municipalities, if I have this correct. It also applicant as if the amount of the previously approved grant improves — we’ll determine what that means — data shar- were part of an amount of the new grant.” ing between the two. I know the minister is saying that’s so straightforward. [11:30 a.m.] But with that, can the minister provide an example actually Maybe my frst question will be: how much and what of how the amounts are calculated under this section? types of information relating to approvals of grants will [11:25 a.m.] be shared between the province and municipalities? What kind of information is going back and forth? Hon. S. Robinson: It just so happens in this sentence, which is strung together in a very long-winded way…. Hon. S. Robinson: Municipalities will be required to Tis is actually the mechanics of the example that I used send tax amounts for each property to the province. previously. So if I make an application for the grant, and Tey’ll have to gather that information and share that with I am not yet a senior, but my spouse is, then it allows the the province. Te province will share back property details spouse who’s the senior…. It sort of cancels my application and grant amounts for each property. and puts in my spouse’s application so that my spouse can get the senior grant. Tat would be applied to the taxes. So M. Bernier: We canvassed it a little bit yesterday. A we would send that to the municipality, and it would read- couple of questions, I think, came up on the collection just our taxes so that they get the full amount. Tis section of social insurance numbers, so I won’t go into too much is the mechanics of making sure that that can happen. detail on that. Te minister has acknowledged that change. I might ask some more questions later on, again, about M. Bernier: Te minister just sparked another ques- why that’s so important, outside of the homeowner’s grant tion in my head with that answer. I possibly should know application process. this. When you are applying for the grant, does it mat- My question, I guess, is around this. Now that the ter who is the title owner of that house? Not in every province is going to be gathering more information, such situation does the spouse have it joint. Sometimes it can as the social insurance number, it appears that that infor- be under the husband; sometimes can be under the wife. mation might be moving around within government or Does that have any determining factor on who’s eligible municipalities a little bit more freely. Te minister has to apply for the grant? acknowledged that, and they say that they have adequate protections in place for that. Was a privacy impact assess- Hon. S. Robinson: And sometimes it’s the wife and ment done for this initiative? the wife or the parent and the child, in terms of who’s on title. For equity and inclusion, I want to recognize Hon. S. Robinson: I want to assure the member that the that we have many diferent kinds of families. But you do social insurance information — or personal information, need to be on title in order to apply for the grant. Tat is broadly — is not being sent back to municipalities. Tat’s the requirement. not what is being considered here. A privacy assessment was done, both for the legislation and for the program. M. Bernier: Under subsection 10.3(2): “(a) the collector of the jurisdiction in which the property is located….” M. Bernier: Is the minister able to share what concerns, Does that mean the municipality that’s administering the if any, were raised during that assessment and that the grant, when it talks about the collector of the jurisdiction? ministry would have had to look at, maybe, as they were formulating this bill? Hon. S. Robinson: Yes, that’s correct. Hon. S. Robinson: I want to assure the member that no M. Bernier: Who’s responsible for providing a refund or issues were raised through the privacy impact assessment. collecting an amount owing with that? Is it the municipal- ity, or is it the province under this new system? M. Bernier: Okay, I appreciate hearing that. Thursday, March 11, 2021 British Columbia Debates 669

Will the information that’s being gathered — this extra safeguards that would need to be put into place, then, if we information, with the social insurance number and are truly gathering information the ministry doesn’t have whatever is taking place within the ministry, and within already. the administering of this — be used as part of any other part of data merging or data sharing within government? Hon. S. Robinson: I know that the member opposite Te minister did speak a little bit to this — I politely say, likely knows that the tax administration in my ministry vaguely — yesterday. doesn’t share any information with any other part of gov- [11:35 a.m.] ernment. Tis would be treated in the exact same way. It I’m just curious, though. Tis is going into one specifc wouldn’t be used for any other purposes. administrator under the homeowner’s grant, but govern- ment is collecting this information, and the minister M. Bernier: Could the information be used by the min- acknowledged, in some of her previous comments, that ister within her ministry to create any new tax initiatives part of this is to try to alleviate and stop fraud. But she’s or tax policy, then? also mentioned comments before, and we referenced back to the vacancy tax, for instance, and others. Hon. S. Robinson: I wanted to take a moment to Is the ministry going to be able to share this inform- remind the member about the whole purpose of doing ation, possibly, with other branches within the ministry this. for any other programs they are presently doing or maybe [11:45 a.m.] even in the future? While I certainly speak to the fact that municipalities are really, I think, pleased that we’re doing this as an… I Hon. S. Robinson: Te tax administration authorities don’t want to say an upgrab. It’s the opposite of a down- have existed for many years, around gathering personal load. An upload? It’s an upload. information in order to provide appropriate taxation. Te We need to remember that this is about making sure tax administration department within the ministry that we’re reducing fraud and making sure that people get already has a lot of personal information, as a taxing their full entitlements so that we can sort of cross-refer- authority. So this information resides within the same ence. We need to have the tools in order to do that, to department. make sure that seniors are getting their full eligibility, but Tere’s nothing new that is being added. Te tax admin- also to make sure that people aren’t getting homeown- istration authorities already have…. Tere’s really no er grants in two or three diferent municipalities, because change in what they do with the information that they cur- you’re only entitled to one homeowner grant. rently gather. Tis is the same. It goes into the same part of Tis is a tool that we have available to us by centralizing my administration that already has information related to the entire system. Te best place to do that is within our taxing. tax department. Tis is a central repository for all the per- sonal information, where everything is kept for all the tax- M. Bernier: With that answer, what’s the reason for col- ation purposes. So it’s for that reason, again, that we’re lecting the social insurance number from everybody, if making sure that we understand who is applying for the the minister’s saying government already has everybody’s grants. Are they entitled to the grants? Are they getting information? their full entitlement to the grant? [11:40 a.m.] Having a centralized process for doing that is really important to making sure that we can maximize benefts Hon. S. Robinson: What’s diferent is that we didn’t for those who are entitled to the grant and make sure that have that information to the homeowner grant. So that’s those who aren’t entitled to it, aren’t taking advantage of what we’re doing here. We’ve always had the authority to a…. I’m not going to call it piecemeal. It’s just that every have that information. Tat’s always existed as part of the municipality has been doing it on their own, and they’re tax administration component. It’s just about tying it to the not talking to each other. So it’s really through this mech- homeowner grant. anism that we’re able to deliver this and make sure that it works well for British Columbians. M. Bernier: It sounds like the minister is saying they’ve always had the authority, but they didn’t always initiate on M. Bernier: Tat was a great answer explaining what that authority, so they don’t actually have all the inform- we’re doing here, except it didn’t quite cover the theme ation. Tey actually are increasing personal information of my question. I mean, obviously, the minister has been within the ministry. saying throughout this that taking away a responsibility, I I guess one of the questions on that, though, would be: guess, of local government and centralizing it…. But again, is there a possibility or any initiative to share that inform- it does come down to the fact that government is going to ation throughout diferent departments for diferent reas- be collecting more personal information of individuals. ons? Obviously, if so, there would be additional security As the minister has rightfully said, if there are situations 670 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 11, 2021 out there of fraud, or duplicate or multiple applications people — and, we hope, a lot more, down the road — are under the homeowner grant situation, to try to catch working hard and fortunate enough to be homeowners in those…. A couple of days ago we heard the minister say the province. that that could be upwards of …. Just a spot check, an Outside of the grant process itself, this information estimation of up to 33,000 homes. It’ll be interesting to see gathered, does the minister, then, look at maybe any new how that actually translates now when this becomes cent- housing taxes that could be applied now that she’ll have ralized into government — the reality of that. that information? But the minister didn’t quite answer where I was going with the question. It’s not so much today. It’s not so much Hon. S. Robinson: No. this homeowner grant specifcally. It’s the fact that within the ministry, they’re going to be continuing to gather more M. Bernier: Well, I’m sure there are lots of people personal information of people that they could now use excited by that answer. I guess we’ll have to see if that outside of the homeowner grant situation. answer means tomorrow or years down the road. It’s yet Tat’s why my question is more around “can.” Maybe to be seen. not will, but can the ministry use this information that I just want to go to a diferent point before we leave they have gathered when they — in the future, at any time this section, looking at the clock here. When we talk about — decide, on any other tax policy, where they want to go? the data sharing, can the minister explain again, so I can understand, the role of the municipality, specifcally? Hon. S. Robinson: I suspect that the member opposite Under this act, some things are going to change. But what wants to take what I’ll call a political lens or perhaps a par- communication has been made and what criteria is there tisan lens on this. Te reality is — and the member knows and what is the role of the municipality when it comes to this full well — that governments can use whatever infor- data sharing? mation they have to help inform public policy. So should the member opposite be fortunate in, I don’t know, anoth- Hon. S. Robinson: Tis is similar, I think, to an earlier er 15 years to have the opportunity to be on this side of question, so I’ll go back again. Te municipality’s role the House, then perhaps they too will be able to take a is to send the tax amount for each property to the look at what information government has and make policy province. Te province will then calculate the grant decisions based on the information that they gather. Tat amount for each property and then send the information is how all governments operate. back so that the municipality applies the approved amount to each property. M. Bernier: I’m actually hopefully going to have an I move that the committee rise, report progress and ask opportunity to be on that side of the House a lot sooner leave to sit again. than that. Te fact will be whether I’m running again or not. But next election, obviously…. Te way the NDP are Motion approved. rolling things out right now, there are a lot of questions. Tat’s why we’re asking them in the House today. Te committee rose at 11:53 a.m. [11:50 a.m.] I mean, this is one of the concerns. I guess by the minis- Te House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair. ter’s answer…. Te answer was yes, by the minister saying that government can use whatever information they have Te Committee of the Whole, having reported as they’re moving forward with future policy or tax initi- progress, was granted leave to sit again. atives. Tis just goes back to the point of some of the con- cerns we’re hearing of yet again — this government try- Hon. S. Robinson moved adjournment of the House. ing to collect more information. It does make some people worried about: “Big Brother government wants more of Motion approved. my information. How are they going to use that against me in future years?” Mr. Speaker: Tis House stands adjourned until 1:30 Again, not to take away from the whole intent of the this afernoon. act itself that we’re talking about today, in Bill 6, but is the minister contemplating maybe introducing any new hous- Te House adjourned at 11:54 a.m. ing taxes now that she’ll have this information? I look at that because the minister has said that 1.1 million or more Hansard Services, Reporting and Publishing

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