John Romita, Jr

MODERN MASTERS VOLUME EIGHTEEN: JJOHNOHN RROMOMITAITA JR JR..

ByBy GeorgeGeorge KhouryKhoury andand EricEric Nolen-WeathingtonNolen-Weathington Modern Masters Volume Eighteen: JOHN ROMITA, JR.

Table of Contents

Introduction by Mark Millar ...... 5

Part One: Growing up the Marvel Way ...... 6

Part Two: Opportunity Knocks! ...... 11

Part Three: Amazing Adventures ...... 21

Part Four: Finding His Stride—Full Pencils at Last ...... 28

Part Five: Artist Without Fear...... 46

Part Six: Storytelling and the Creative Process ...... 78 Art Gallery ...... 87 Growing up Part 1: the Marvel Way MODERN MASTERS: When you were growing up, on me, and I would take a swing. But I didn’t get bloodied who was the boss in your family, your mom or your dad? and cut up and beat, I was just pushed around, beat up, sat on, smacked around. I would fight back, and my JOHN ROMITA, JR.: It was a great combination of brother would fight back and save me all the time. But my both, because my father worked at home. parents handled it very well. We were in a rough section MM: Okay. Your mom was kind of stern, right? Or were of Queens, and then we moved when I was about eight, your parents into the good cop/bad cop kind of parenting? and everything worked out great. There was nothing really super-spectacular in any direction, good or bad, when I JOHN: It was never that way. They were perfect parents. was growing up. A prototypical New York neighborhood. They yelled when they were supposed to, they MM: So it’s not a place disciplined when they you miss a lot? You don’t were supposed to, they have a lot of nostalgia for were nice when they were it? supposed to be. They did JOHN: I have nostalgia it just right. There was no for the ages of my late shucking and jiving, no teens until I was about good cop/bad cop. When 30, because I had such a they got mad, it was very, great growing-up period, very normal, and very that my parents prepared well done. me so well for adult- MM: I was an intern for hood. From the time that Ralph [Macchio], and the I got a job—at 15, or 14, only time I ever saw him whatever I was when I stand up and be attentive got my first job, and art and really serious was became a major part of when your mom used to my life—that part of my come in to the office. life was so wonderful. [laughter] She’d come in Things went well, I had a with the publishing lot of fun, good friends, schedule on her bulletin. great family, and I look upon it fondly. Before JOHN: Yeah, well, she that, when I was a kid, commanded respect. That’s my parents didn’t have the kind of woman she is. much money, but they treated us like gold. We MM: How would you did not want for much. describe your upbringing in Queens? Was it nice or was it tough? Did you ever MM: Were you and your brother competitive growing have to deal with bullies when you were growing up? up?

JOHN: Oh, God, yes. I got beat up on a regular basis. JOHN: I was with him, but he never was with me, because he was always smarter, better looking, stronger. MM: Why? So I was competitive, and that’s good. It translates well to now, because I always have competition as an artist, JOHN: Because I didn’t know how to shut my mouth and the people that are better artists than me don’t when they said obnoxious things, and they were picking

6 know that I’m always in competition with them, but I never run out of inspiration.

MM: Do you see yourself being very different from Victor, personality-wise?

JOHN: I see enough of my father and my mother in both of us to see the similarities, and that’s where it ends. He’s cool, calm, and collected, and I’m an angst-ridden, paranoid banana sometimes. I worry about everything, and he doesn’t.

MM: Those are some of your dad’s traits, aren’t they? He worries about everything.

JOHN: Well, he may worry, but he does- n’t show it.

MM: He does show it sometimes, because he’ll always tell people, “I’m never good enough.” He’s always the first one to say that his drawings aren’t good enough.

JOHN: But he’s not as much of a worrier as I am. I don’t know where that came from, I don’t know which part of the family it came from, but I am an innate worrier. And I sweat everything. [laughs]

MM: Growing up, did you and your brother always hear your parents talk about how tight money was?

JOHN: No. No, they were really good about that, and they didn’t let us know. They were very close to the vest about that kind of thing. We knew that my father was an artist. When he got fired from DC and didn’t have work and was JOHN: That’s right. I slept well sometimes delivering newspapers before Stan [Lee] knowing he was up there to protect me called him, we didn’t hear about that until from all the monsters that were coming long after things had gotten better. out from underneath my bed. MM: You could tell he was working a lot, MM: At the same time, were you con- Previous Page: while you were growing up? 1960s cerned, “Wow, my dad’s working his tail photo of (left to right) JOHN: Oh, yeah. off”? John Jr.; mother, Virginia; and brother, Victor. MM: He would work in the room above JOHN: Well, that wasn’t a concern on my Above: John’s pencils you guys, right? The attic was above your part. That was wonder and awe, and now, and his father’s inks from bedroom? interestingly enough, it translates directly Amazing Spider-Man #400. to me and my son, because my son always Spider-Man ™ and ©2008 JOHN: Right above our bedroom, that’s worries about me working unbelievable Marvel Characters, Inc. correct. hours.

MM: So you could see the light on and MM: Would he have his radio on or would know that he was up there? he just draw and keep very quiet?

7 JOHN: I think he had music on some- Yankees-first fan because I grew up before times. He had talk radio on, and he would the Mets came around. But I root for the listen to a guy through the night. But Mets more than the Yankees because the music, I don’t know when he would put Mets need to be rooted for more than the music or talk radio on; I don’t know if Yankees. [laughter] there was any rhyme or reason, but, yes, he would keep the radio on all night long MM: When did you start having an incli- to keep him company. nation towards art? When do you remember starting to draw, and starting to doodle? Below: A panel from MM: Would you have conversations, early page 2 of the father and on, with your dad, about movies and comics? JOHN: I was doodling from the time I was son collaboration for eight or nine or ten, and then, when gram- Amazing Spider-Man #400. Next Page: Daredevil JOHN: He always spoke to us about movies mar school allowed us to expand our incli- and stories. He wanted us to see certain nations... I think it all came to a head mid- played two crucial roles in John’s career. 1) Seeing his movies, or he would watch movies on televi- way through high school when I realized dad’s cover for Daredevil sion, and we would watch certain TV that in a year or two I was going to have #12 as a child sparked shows. But TV wasn’t as important, unless it to pick a major in college, and the only the initial desire in him to was a movie; TV wasn’t important to us thing I was above average at was art. So it become an artist. 2) It because there wasn’t that much of it. We was a slow process. I think as I got more was during his 34-issue would be out playing sports. We learned to adulation, so to speak, from people, or run on Daredevil (from be good athletes from my father. My broth- compliments from my father, and then I’d which this panel comes) er and I were raised on sandlot sports, and go to the office and get a compliment that he really began devel- we got to be damn good at all the sports occasionally, it just perpetuated itself. And oping his style and already because of it. And our father taught us how somewhere around my sophomore year of strong storytelling ability. to play all the sports. It was great. high school, when I realized that soon I The inks here are by the would have to pick a major, it all kind of legendary Al Williamson. MM: Your dad is a big baseball fan, right? came together. Daredevil, Spider-Man ™ and ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc. JOHN: Oh, yeah, huge. MM: So your dad, he always encouraged MM: Did some of that rub off on you guys? your art? He never told you, “Look what I’m going through”? JOHN: Absolutely. Baseball is my forte as a hobby. It’s what I love. JOHN: No. But if I told him I would love to be what he is, he’d say, “Are you nuts? MM: What are the Romitas, Mets fans? Look at this! I don’t get paid much, and I’m working long hours.” He didn’t discourage JOHN: I am what my father taught me me, but he didn’t encourage me. He told me how to be, which is a New York fan. I’m a I had to get an education, and so on.

8 Opportunity Part 2: Knocks! MM: So it was through Marie that you got into Marvel? there was a definitive British department, and Larry Lieber was the head of it. Bob Budiansky was also there, and he JOHN: Yeah, my father didn’t want to be that guy that became another sketch artist. I don’t know how long I did perpetuated the father/son thing with all the problems work for the British department, but one day Iron Man that that would entail. I don’t know if he discussed it opened up, and Scott Edelman at the time was the editor. with Marie or not, but he told me, “I’m not going to He said, “I don’t believe in nepotism, but I don’t believe in give you a job. I’m not going to keep you from a job.” anti-nepotism, either. I don’t believe in that. So, if you can MM: How did this come about? You just needed a sum- do the work, let’s see what you can do.” mer job or something? Actually, I think I had done the six-page Spider-Man job before that. Archie Goodwin JOHN: Yeah, I was up there in allowed me to do this the summer doing sketches and six-page fill-in backup pin-ups. I would be a pest, and story, “Chaos at the they would allow me to do a Coffee Bean” first. Then, sketch or two here and there. after doing that, and Al And Marie said, “If you want to Milgrom saving it, they do sketches in your spare time, offered me Iron Man. And I’ll give you the work. I’ll give I was also working on staff you five dollars a sketch.” And as a production assistant. that allowed me to do work Let’s see if I get this for the British department correct now. After work- [Marvel UK], under Marie’s ing in the British depart- aegis, and it went from there. ment, there was an open- That was basically it. It was ing as a production assis- just a matter of Marie agree- tant, and I think I took that ing to a formula. In other right after the British words, “Yeah, you do the department. I continued to sketches and I’ll pay you.” do little pin-ups and stuff. I That was it. Going from a did that for 18 months. I lark of a thing to, “Hey, think during that 18-month these sketches aren’t bad. period, I did the six-page You ought to do some Spider-Man story, and then sketches for us.” That was with that, they saw that I it. And then, “Listen, could tell a story and they there’s a British depart- offered me Iron Man. And that ment that’ll give you reg- ended my production assis- ular work on sketches, if tant job. I think that was the you want to start doing chronology. freelance work for them.” MM: I believe somewhere it MM: So you were doing work for the British depart- says you worked for Roy ment, for their black-&-white magazines, right? Thomas. What did you do for Roy?

JOHN: Right—in 1976. They would split the books into JOHN: As a production assistant, I was Roy’s liaison two parts, so they’d have to produce a new cover and a between he and John Buscema for their work on Conan. new splash page for the second part when they were print- Roy was out in Los Angeles, and John Buscema was here ed over in England. That’s what I was doing. Back then in New York. John Buscema would send the work to the

11 Jack Kirby, and Don Heck, and Dan Adkins, and all these great people. They were all wonderful to me.

MM: At the same time there was an expansion going on in the mid-’70s at Marvel. A lot of new guys, guys that would be your editors and production people, were all starting to come in. Ralph came in, Roger Stern, and some other familiar names.

JOHN: Right. MM: So you got to see an interesting phase.

JOHN: Yeah! True. MM: What sort of work did you do, production-wise? Did you have to do stats and all that kind of stuff?

JOHN: Yeah, photocopies. I was a gofer. I was doing everything and anything. I learned a lot of the process of the comics industry. I learned production work. I learned to register. When I say “register,” I don’t mean register things in words, I mean lining pages up to be photocopies. It was a very, very archaic process back then, and there was a photostat room where things were actually photocopied for print and for production. And we had to register things with register marks, and clean things up of rubber cement, and touch up artwork, and make repairs. There were corrections. I did everything. I even washed windows, so I really did everything. I mean, it was a great learning experience for 18 months. office, and I would register it, I would set it up and get it ready for Roy. I would photocopy it, and process it, so MM: Did it humble you? You had to start from the very to speak. bottom.

MM: Were you comfortable there? I mean, these were JOHN: Oh, yeah! I started from the bottom. That was people that were your dad’s friends and co-workers. the agreement. They weren’t going to let this punk become anything unless he earned it. I got crap. I got JOHN: Yeah, but I still had to be an artist. treated like crap from the majority of people my age or MM: Was that one of the reasons you wanted to be a little bit older. The adults treated me with respect there, too? It was someplace that you were familiar with. because they loved my father, but the younger people You’d heard all the names, and your dad always talked that were slightly older than me were rough on me. And about these people when you were young. even artists, some of my age, were rough on me.

JOHN: Yeah, sure. And going up to the office and MM: A lot of people in comics are like that. You’ve been working with them was interesting, especially with doing this for a while. Nobody knows how to say a nice Marie and people like that. And meeting John Buscema, word or a compliment.

12 JOHN: I got treated like crap by some JOHN: You’ll have to ask him that. I don’t people. I still get comments, 25 years after know. He may have been enjoying it, the fact, from people saying, “You still while at the same time being a little bit Previous Page: While wouldn’t have been anywhere without your worried about it. John served as a liaison father’s last name, ha ha ha ha.” between Roy Thomas MM: You tried to work more with Marie and John Buscema for MM: Early on, did your father tell you not and some of the other people? part of their long run on to worry about that kind of stuff? I mean, Conan, John would get to JOHN: I tried not to bother him. I would even though he was worried about all that pencil a tale of the nepotism stuff, he told you not to worry. go and have lunch with him, and then Cimmerian about ten when my mother started working up at the years later. This page is JOHN: No, no. What he told me was, “Tell office, we would have breakfast together from the black-&-white them to blow it out their asses.” He said, and go in together, and it worked great Conan Saga magazine— “Pay no attention. Ignore people. Just do that way. But I tried not to bother him. issue #14 to be specific. your work, and let the work speak for itself.” Inks by Armando Gil. MM: So when you did the “Chaos at the Below: A photo of John MM: Did you ever heard the story of Joe Coffee Bean” story, that was a big deal for at his table in the Marvel DiMaggio, Jr.? How being in his dad’s you at that point? Bullpen taken some time shadow sort of crushed him? in the late ’70s. JOHN: Oh, God, yes. It was Spider-Man! Conan ™ and ©2008 Conan JOHN: Yeah, I’ve read stories about it, yes, I was doing Spider-Man! Not long after my Properties International, LLC. but I knew my place, and I knew who was father was working on Spider-Man, I was good and who wasn’t. I wasn’t that good, doing a six-page story. but I was a hard worker, and if I saw a little bit of progress, it negated any of the nega- tivity. I also was the pugnacious type. If somebody said something to me, I was ready to take a swing. I wanted to lay people out who were just obnoxious to me, and up until my 30s, I wanted to punch some people, because a lot of people deserved it. There were some boneheads that worked as editors and assistant editors up there, and they wouldn’t like me for various reasons, and so on. And I learned a lot from my father about being patient and just when to shut my mouth, and when to fold my hands and sit on them.

MM: It seems to me some editors just want to control somebody, namely their artists. There’s a lot of politics that goes on that doesn’t necessarily help the art form, itself.

JOHN: Right. MM: You said you would also do art corrections?

JOHN: Oh, yeah. I did corrections on anything and everything, sure. Any time they wanted a figure fixed, whatever they needed me to do, I was doing everything, and I learned a lot of stuff.

MM: Did it take your dad some time to get used to you being there?

13 Amazing Part 3: Adventures MM: How did you end up being on Amazing Spider-Man? MM: What did you think of his Spider-Man work? It has that quirkiness, like everything that your dad has done JOHN: I don’t remember how it happened. and what Ditko and Stan Lee had done, all mixed MM: Was it Denny O’Neil who was the editor? together. What you and Rog were able to do sort of brought back the character to the classic roots. JOHN: I think so, yeah. I think he wrote some of the issues. Or did he write some of the Iron Man? I don’t JOHN: Sure, sure. I think we both were trying that, remember. I think there was a certain novelty in having because we both needed to base it on something great another Romita on it, and that I was more than instead of relying on our own wiles. capable, they felt, to do the book, so they said, why not.

MM: Did you think it was going to happen that fast? I think it only took you four years to get there. It didn’t take very long.

JOHN: No, it didn’t take very long. Instead of worrying about what people thought, I thought, “I’m very flattered.”

MM: How did your dad feel about you coming on that title?

JOHN: He was thrilled. He was thrilled. MM: The first go-round on Spider-Man, did you have a specific approach that you wanted to try out? Did you have an idea of what you were going to do on that book when you started?

JOHN: No. I didn’t have an idea what I was going to do for many, many, many years. I just went along with the best I could do and whatever came out on time.

MM: To me, it always felt that you and Roger Stern worked perfectly together. Did you like working with him?

JOHN: Yeah, I did, because he’s a good friend. But I wasn’t good enough to be in such control other than storytelling. I knew what I was doing, but I was also just flying by the seat of my pants and trying to get as much done as possible, and get the stuff presentable, and base it on what I had learned for years before, and what I felt my father would do. That was all I could think of, because I wasn’t that good. 21 MM: Did that stuff appeal to you? The way he brought back Spider-Man, he made him feel like a human being again, where he struggled with paying the rent. It really felt like he lived in New York, and that the guys that were doing the book knew what the experience was like of living in New York.

JOHN: Yes, that’s very good. That’s very accurate.

MM: There’s a quote Rog told me that I thought you might like to hear. I asked him how you two worked together, and he said, “Our differences were mainly cultural. J.R.’s a hip, young guy from the city, and I’m a schlub from the Midwest. Now that I think of it, he’s Spider-Man and I’m Peter Parker, and together it all worked out.” [John laughs]

JOHN: I don’t know about “hip.” If he feels that way, that’s fine. I think that was just Roger’s way of being funny. We were both relatively young and inexperienced in the business, but with enough experience to get by.

MM: But you and [he] were on the same page; you were in sync for the first time [with your writer], basically?

JOHN: Yes. MM: Why didn’t you guys ever collabo- rate again?

JOHN: That, I don’t know. That’s a great question, and nobody seems to know why. I don’t know why that has happened. I moved on to other jobs, he moved on to other jobs, and then we never crossed people from back then were phonies, paths again professionally. I don’t know which I didn’t realize until many, many Previous Page: Cover why. years later, and it disappointed me to find art for John’s first issue of Amazing out that people were that way. But what his first run on Spider-Man MM: During that book you went through that did to me was make me realize that as the regular penciler. Inks by Al a lot of inkers. Was there a particular rea- the way things went back then was done son why they were trying out so many Milgrom. either for the wrong reasons, or for disin- Above: guys with you? More of John’s genuous reasons, and that’s a shame. early Amazing Spider-Man breakdowns. The pencils JOHN: No, I don’t know. [laughs] First, it But that’s the thing. When I was at MM: are all there, but it’s left up was a long time ago. Second, what I Marvel, that’s the only thing I learned. always thought were the reasons for things to the inker/finisher as to Everything’s political. how to spot the blacks. changed recently when I found out what certain people were really like. I found out JOHN: Well, I think that’s true of any Spider-Man and all related characters ™ and ©2008 Marvel the truth about a lot of people. A lot of the office full of people. Characters, Inc.

23 MM: Well, when you’re working with artists, you’d JOHN: Everybody was, because my father and John think it would be a creative environment. And that’s the Buscema and Jack Kirby were still very prominent in one thing I was thrown off by—“This is no different people’s minds. than working in some business office.” MM: You dad and John Buscema had set the house style JOHN: Yeah, but if you think about it, artists and writ- at Marvel. Throughout the ’70s and ’80s, that was the ers are flaky, and style—until the Image guys came along. they’re creative, and I think all JOHN: Sure. So we were that does is exag- just trying to do our gerate their best, and everybody duplicity, ampli- was basically emu- fy their lating the guys duplicity, that were better because than they were, they’re cre- and that was ative. them.

MM: Towards the MM: Were there end of that run any particular sto- they paired ries that you liked you up with from that first Klaus [Janson], run? and I felt that JOHN: Yeah, he was the first the inker that really Juggernaut matched what you were two-parter. doing. He really brought the mood MM: That’s the that you had in your first story after pencils. Did you feel you took over that was the case? the title, right? It’s the one where JOHN: I was so happy people started notic- that Klaus was working your work. ing with me, because I was JOHN: I think I started such a fan of his feeling some control in my stuff. And we stuff. Yeah, that’s possible. didn’t get a chance to work MM: I think everything came together again together here. You had the humor, until about you had the action. You didn’t have seven years later all the soap opera elements going yet. on the Punisher. JOHN: Right, right. But, yeah, I was thrilled to have MM: When you were design- him work on an ing the Hobgoblin, did you issue of Spider-Man. want it to be something differ- And now here we are, ent from the Green Goblin? again, working on Spider- Man. JOHN: They told me to base it loosely on the Green Goblin, but be a little bit different. Those were my MM: It always seemed to me that everyone they instructions. brought in before Klaus was trying to bring out your dad in your artwork. MM: You wanted to make him more evil-looking?

24 Finding His Stride— Part 4: Full Pencils at Last MM: How did the offer come to do Uncanny? Did that strange. They said, “Listen, it’s got to be done. Can you come from Louise Simonson? get it done by Monday?” I said, “Yeah.”

JOHN: I don’t remember who MM: Did you have Paul’s pages to look at? came up to me. JOHN: Yes, and I tried to make it look like MM: It might have been his stuff, since it was the middle of the Shooter? book. I believed in doing a slow grad- ing into the next artist. I didn’t want JOHN: I don’t remem- to just shock everybody. At least, ber who came to me that’s what I said, when I could first. I know Louise have just done my own stuff. So was the editor on that I did a little bit of Paul Smith- book, but I don’t esque stuff the first issue or so. know whose sugges- tion it was first. MM: Right from the start, it Maybe it was Shooter, was a difficult book. Also, I don’t know. you hadn’t done a team book before. MM: Did you feel like you were thrown into JOHN: Right. Yeah, I this thing with enough didn’t realize it would time to prepare? be that tough.

JOHN: Uhhh.... Well, MM: Did you feel they might have felt I the pressure of, had enough time, but I “Oh, people are wasn’t prepared com- going to expect pletely. And yet I got Paul Smith”? better. I improved leaps and bounds because of JOHN: Oh, yeah. working on that title. I got nasty letters and everything. Oh, MM: Who decided to put sure. Absolutely. you, right away, in that first issue, X-Men #175? It was a MM: Was this the first strange how they passed the art time you had to deal torch from Paul Smith to you with a lot of criticism? mid-issue. JOHN: Yeah, that was the JOHN: Oh, that was because Paul first time I felt the wrath of ran out of time. He had a scheduling the fans. problem, so they asked me to do eight MM: Did you read the pages over a weekend. [laughter] Comics Journal issue where, I MM: You didn’t think that was a strange way think, Heidi McDonald wrote a of starting? piece, “What’s wrong with the X-Men?” I couldn’t believe she was so harsh on you. Some of JOHN: Well, it was an emergency, so it wasn’t the issues she criticizes are my favorite ones that you did.

28 JOHN: What, this is a recent article? MM: No, it’s an old article. This is from 1985.

JOHN: Oh, okay. MM: She had some issues with some of your art and the writing on X-Men at that time.

JOHN: Oh, okay. So it was an article about my run that she did back when my run was ongoing?

MM: Yeah, back in 1985 or so. JOHN: Well, that’s fine. [laughter] You can only imagine what it’s like to have the Internet so prevalent now.

MM: Oh, it’s so much worse. JOHN: Yeah, there are a lot of nasty people out there. What are you going to do?

MM: This scenario happens with every X-Men artist. When John Byrne left, who could ever replace him?

JOHN: Right, everybody gets their own backlash, absolutely.

MM: And then, once you left, I’m sure the same thing happened. “Yeah, he’s no John Romita.”

JOHN: Ennnnh, I don’t know about that. [laughter]

MM: Working with Chris Claremont, were you able to collab- orate with him, or did you just work from full scripts?

JOHN: Basically, he just gave very tight plots. They weren’t really scripts, they were plots, but his were Most of the X-Men artists that I’ve spoken very tight. with said that was the way they worked with him. They talked about what they MM: Were you able to discuss with him Previous Page: 1983 wanted to do, and pitched in ideas.... what you were going to do in the script? sketch of Wolverine. Above: Cover art for JOHN: No. I just did exactly what they JOHN: No. I was a young artist, and he Uncanny X-Men #196. asked. was an experienced writer. It was basically Inks by Terry Austin. “do what he writes.” MM: So you never expressed to him, “Oh, Wolverine, X-Men ™ and I wouldn’t mind doing more Wolverine or ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc. MM: He never invited ideas from you? more Colossus?”

29 JOHN: Nope. Never got into that conversation. How would you approach those Right: MM: Kitten with a plots? How would you break them down? soulsword! Panel from Uncanny X-Men #203. JOHN: I would just start thumbnailing, do Below: Page 6 of little notes and little doodles to pace out Uncanny X-Men #203 . the whole book, and then start from the Inks by Al Williamson. first page. Next Page: Cover art Uncanny X-Men for #183. MM: Did you feel like there was some- Inks by Dan Green. times way too much in there for 22 pages? Juggernaut, X-Men ™ and ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc. JOHN: Yeah, it was very dense, absolutely. MM: One of the things I liked hearing you say,

for World War Hulk’s last issue, you thought there was too much going on, and you needed more pages.

JOHN: Absolutely. That book should have been done in 60 pages.

MM: Reading some of those Chris Claremont issues, I thought there were a couple issues there you could have stretched out more.

JOHN: Yes. That’s very true. They were very crowded.

MM: There was nothing you could tell Chris? Like, “Can we cut this?”

JOHN: No. That wasn’t done back then. You didn’t do that to any writer.

MM: Is that something you gain with experience? That from now on, you’re just not going to do nine panels on a page with action?

JOHN: Like I said, I was a young guy, and I just followed orders.

30 you able to do things you weren’t able to MM: What did you think of those two do the first time? issues? Because that sort of brought you Previous Page: Silver back into the thick of things. That was Surfer lends Daredevil a JOHN: Yes, absolutely. I was completely during the height of the Jim Lee era of X- helping hand (along with in control of the storytelling, and that was Men. some cosmic power) as much of a turning point for me as against Mephisto. Daredevil was. I loved that. That run on Iron JOHN: Right, right. Daredevil #282, pages 24 Man was as much fun as I’ve ever had on a and 25. Inks by Al book. MM: You’ve got these two books—two Williamson. 48-page issues—that basically don’t really Below: Action from the MM: Was it your idea to bring in Fin Fang tell you anything. It was supposed to tell “Armor Wars II” story- Iron Man Foom and all that stuff? you the origin of Cable, but it doesn’t real- line—from ly tell you much. #262 and #266, JOHN: Oh, no, it was John’s idea to bring respectively. Inks by Bob it in. But the redesign of the Living Laser JOHN: That’s true. I don’t know, other Wiacek. and a couple other villains was fun, too. than them asking me to do it, and I agreed. Daredevil, Iron Man, Jim Rhodes, I don’t have a very good grasp of the rea- Mephisto, Silver Surfer ™ and ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc. MM: Why haven’t you ever done the sons why things happened back then. Avengers? You’ve done practically everything at Marvel except that.

JOHN: I have done an issue of the Avengers, a fill-in.

MM: Just an issue, but not a run. JOHN: Right, correct. They haven’t asked me. If they asked me, I would consider it.

MM: Was there a particular reason you did the Cable mini-series?

JOHN: Again, they asked me.

39 JOHN: They asked me to do the back. But listen, people are that way. He Punisher/Batman crossover, so I asked for didn’t want to cause trouble at the compa- Previous Page Top: one month off of X-Men to do the ny, so he let me work without telling me Joker and Jigsaw enjoy a Punisher/Batman. They gave it to me, and he wasn’t thrilled with my work, and I was day on the beach. John’s then they wouldn’t let me back on kept off of a lot of books, and I was pencils for a two-page because Joe Madureira was discovered. screwed out of doing the X-Men by Kelly spread for Punisher/ Batman #2, the project That was the time that I was very upset Corvese when Bob Harras should have he left (he thought only with the editor-in-chief, who didn’t back done the right thing, and he didn’t. temporarily) Uncanny me up on that. That was another point MM: Kelly was one of his guys. X-Men to do. where I was tempted to leave. Previous Page Top: The MM: I’ve seen you mention that you found JOHN: He was his assistant editor; he stuck Punisher on the move, by his assistant editor. And that was proba- from Punisher War Zone out later on that he didn’t like your art- bly the time where I was very disenchanted #2. Inks by Klaus Janson. work very much, either. Previous Page with people who I felt were my friends. Bottom: JOHN: Yes. I found out that Bob Harras A quiet page MM: So the whole time you were working from Uncanny X-Men was a phony, that’s correct. there, you never got those kind of vibes? #309. Inks by Dan Green. MM: Oddly, he probably needed you Charles Xavier, Jigsaw, Punisher more than you needed him. JOHN: I never got that feeling. The fact ™ and ©2008 Michael Allred. that I couldn’t get to a certain point on JOHN: He was pleasant to me up front, certain books bothered me, but I always and then didn’t like my work behind my thought it was because of other reasons,

42 Artist Part 5: Without Fear MM: When did you feel that your talent and your com- worst critic. So even when they showed me apprecia- mitment to Marvel were finally appreciated? You went tion, I didn’t feel good enough about the work. It was a through some problems in the early ’90s. When did you conflict trying to get better, always working hard. But I feel like you were part of the team? would say the mid-’80s was when I started feeling like I was doing something, and then the early ’90s, when I JOHN: [chuckles] I never felt safe enough. I probably still started working with Frank Miller, kind of secured it. I don’t feel content enough, because I’m always worried started getting some nice reactions from my fellow that my work isn’t good enough. Always felt that way, artists. always will. I’ve just always been my own MM: Have there ever been times for you that this was just a job? What do you do to stay motivated, to not think like that?

JOHN: I hate to say money, but to survive, you’ve got to make a good living, a decent living, and I always want to have a nice roof over my wife’s head, that kind of thing. So I’m always... I guess I’m greedy. [laughter] Greed is good, bordering on being paranoid about it, but I have the urge to be the best. And I don’t know when I’ll know that I’m the best. I don’t know if it’ll come in the form of a big sign out on Times Square, or if it will ever occur to me. I hope it never occurs to me, because then I’ll stop getting better. But it’s the design to be the best, and the need for money, like anybody else.

MM: There haven’t been any times when you felt like the work was beneath you a little bit?

JOHN: As an artist, you mean? MM: Yeah, as an artist; a time you weren’t into what you were doing. In 30 years, I think, once in a while everybody hits a bump.

JOHN: Yeah, there were times that I was- n’t too happy with the industry, but that had nothing to do with the industry, per se, it was because of some of the people.

MM: But you never let it affect your work? I mean, say there was a book that didn’t turn out the way they promised you, after a while you don’t go, “Whatever,” and just get it out of the way?

46 JOHN: No, I don’t think I ever felt that. I never got complacent, never got cocky, never got to the point where I wasn’t enjoying the work.

MM: Star Brand, for example, that was promised to be one thing, and right away it just fell apart.

JOHN: Well, that was, first of all, a bad career move on my part. And, second, it fell apart because of various and sundry reasons that I’m not going to go into.

MM: But you never felt like it affected your art, though? No matter what happened, you did the best you could, always?

JOHN: Yeah, I always did the best I could. I don’t think there ever was a point where I slacked, honestly. And I don’t think I ever, ever slacked and said, “Let me get this over with.” Because there were days when, if you didn’t do a good job, you weren’t going to get work the next day. I don’t know if I’ve been in that situation in a long time, but before royalties were sure things, you worked for every dime you made, and you also worked to get your next dime. So I always had that feeling in my gut that, “Gotta do my best, because I have to please everybody, and then I have to please the fans.”

MM: Redesigning Mephisto. Why did you feel like you had to do that, sort of making him into Blackheart?

JOHN: I didn’t make him into Blackheart. I made him look like a disgusting demon, and then Blackheart kind of morphed on his own into what he is. It always bothered JOHN: Okay. I didn’t say my idea was me that Mephisto looked like a guy in a great. But, as the devil, you can morph costume. The devil doesn’t wear tights and into any shape you want. Previous Page: Like a cape, that’s all. So I just thought of some- MM: What was your thinking going into most of Ann Nocenti’s thing demonic. That’s all. Why I did it is Daredevil stories, this was Man Without Fear? because it bothered me that Mephisto as much a psychological wore a cape and shorts and boots. JOHN: Originally I wanted to do a graph- drama as anything else. Daredevil ic novel with Frank, a Wolverine graphic #268, page 22. MM: For years they stuck to your design Inks by Al Williamson. novel. But he said, “Nah, everybody’s up until recently, right? Above : Cover art for doing Wolverine. Let’s try a Daredevil job.” Daredevil #280, featuring JOHN: Yeah! What does he look like in Then he said, “I have this script for a tele- Mephisto. “One More Day”? play, a screenplay that didn’t pan out, and I Daredevil, Mephisto ™ and can adjust it into a comics plot, so let’s do ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc. MM: He looks like the old Mephisto, the that.” Kind of a “Daredevil: Year One,” was one John Buscema drew. the conversation, and that’s the way it was.

47 MM: Was everything there in the script? considering five parts.

JOHN: Well, it was not—he filled a lot of MM: Was that a little disappointing for you? stuff in that he wanted to say. And then, after I started it, it became even bigger, JOHN: Ennnh, a little bit. I wanted it to because he threw an addendum in that be a graphic novel first, but it worked ended up being 80-something pages extra. okay. It worked fine. But he said from the get-go that he had to MM: With Miller, was it a close relation- change it slightly from its first state, from ship while you were working on that? Above: Trading card art the rejected screenplay. for the Marvel Universe III JOHN: Not at all. He gave me a plot, dis- Did you break up your story from his card set. MM: appeared to work on one of the Robocop Next Page: Matt script, or from what he was giving you, the movies, then appeared later to add the Murdock, meet Elektra new notes? addendum, and then disappeared again to Natchios. Daredevil: The do another movie. He was not around a lot Man Without Fear JOHN: No, it got broken up into five parts #2, because he was so busy. No problem. page 28. Inks by Klaus by the editors. They thought 140 pages of Janson. graphic novel would be too cost-ineffective, MM: So you were pretty free to do what and they felt they had to break it up first, Daredevil, Elektra, Spider-Man, you could do with the storytelling. Most Wolverine ™ and ©2008 Marvel sell as much as they could as the five-part of the time you could think up what you Characters, Inc. series, and then anything it sold as a hard- wanted to do in a scene, right? cover or a graphic novel would be cake. JOHN: It was a lot like working with John MM: Yet, the majority of the time you Byrne. Frank knew what I could do, and were working on it, you thought it was allowed me to do whatever I wanted. going to be a graphic novel, right? MM: Is that one of the few times you basi- JOHN: I knew towards the end. Close to cally lobbied for a writer, that you wanted the end they were telling me they were to work with him directly?

48 JOHN: Yeah, that was a lot of fun, because I was a big fan of Kirby’s Thor.

MM: I remember your comment about want- Previous Page: Action ing to make him a god, on an Asgardian scale. not just a super-hero. The arc of Thor’s ham- because they know what they like, visually, mer and the radiating and they always lend a hand as far as com- JOHN: I liked the more godly aspect of it, explosion focus your ing up with nice scenarios, and then they yes. attention to the point of let you carry it where it should be. impact—the money shot MM: What was wrong with him before? of the page. The creature MM: It felt like you never got tired of almost seems to be JOHN: Nothing was wrong, I just felt that working on that book. Did you? falling into the second he’s supposed to be a god, and let’s treat it panel, which naturally JOHN: No, not tired of it, but I think I more that way. I like Odin. I don’t like the leads the eyes there and had done enough when I stopped. Earth, per se, when it comes to Thor. I onto the rest of the wanted to see a lot of stuff up in Asgard. story. Thor #12, page 27. MM: But I thought you were just getting Inks by Klaus Janson. started. [laughs] MM: It was all the things you couldn’t do Above: John’s pencils with Spidey, right? You could do clouds and Klaus’ inks for page JOHN: No, I was ready to try some other and landscapes and all sorts of locations. 1 of Thor #18. stuff. I got a chance to do other stuff, and I Thor and all related characters was ready to go. JOHN: Right. ™ and ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc. MM: There’s a comment Jurgens made, MM: And you had never done anything where he said that you were born to draw like that before, had you? Thor. [John laughs] It came easy to you, JOHN: No, I guess not. I can’t think of doing all that crackle and power? anything else before that. No. 63 JOHN: No, the TV show wasn’t men- tioned. It was more or less just Bruce’s story, and the loner/wandering character was not a play off of the TV show. No, not at all.

MM: Did you embrace the quiet storytelling it had at the beginning?

JOHN: Sure. Sure. MM: There was a lot of mystery to that title. We didn’t know if Banner was still the Hulk, or what was going on.

JOHN: Right, we were not sure. I enjoyed that aspect.

MM: How did your first creator-owned series, Gray Area, come about?

JOHN: It was my idea from the beginning, and I ran into Glen Brunswick, and Glen came up with a nice combination of the two of our ideas. He liked my idea, then he expanded on it, and it became what it is, so we’re co-creators. It would take several hours to explain where I got the idea from.

MM: Was the original intention to pitch this as a film, with the comic acting as part of the pitch?

JOHN: It was a creator-owned story. We still hope it becomes a film, and we’re still working on that. Yeah, I had higher hopes for that than the standard comic book.

MM: It came out after the boom period was over. So was it weird being out of the city? MM: JOHN: No, it didn’t come out during a [laughter] Above: A quiet moment boom period, but it served its purpose. It from Incredible Hulk #27. JOHN: Yeah, so to speak. wasn’t meant to make a lot of money as John has staggered the much as it was meant to get it out for the panels to help differenti- MM: How did the whole Bruce Jones Hulk film’s sake. ate the switches in the thing come about? phone conversation. MM: What made you think taking your Next Page: Promo art JOHN: Again, I guess they saw me doing property to Image was the right thing? for the creator-owned the [Thor] stuff and the big, bulky, kick-ass Why didn’t you just take it to Marvel? Gray Area series, though huge characters, and they felt like the you may notice it was at Hulk would be a great follow-up because JOHN: I did take it to Marvel. Marvel one time called Gray they liked the way I handled Kirby’s char- accepted it, but they didn’t have a creator- Watch. acters. owned template available at that moment, Bruce Banner, Hulk and all related so they gave me the opportunity to go to characters ™ and ©2008 Marvel MM: When you were doing Hulk, was it Image under the idea that it was only three Characters, Inc. Gray Area ™ and supposed to feel a little bit more like the issues. They gave me a waiver. “Go to ©2008 John Romita, Jr. and Glen TV show—more of a loner-on-the-run Brunswick. Image, and when the creator-owned tem- book? plate is up and running, we’ll deal with that

64 a couple years down the road.” So it was JOHN: I just ran into him, believe it or Below: John’s pencils for Gray Area #1, page 18. Marvel’s idea. not, at the opening of a movie. There was Next Page: a party afterwards that I had gotten invited The variant MM: Were these themes that always inter- cover to Gray Area #1, to, and Glen was there, and he said, “Hey, ested you? That sort of, Heaven and Hell and the cover to Gray I know you. You work for Marvel Comics. Area #2, both inked by and Limbo, that gray area, I guess? John Romita.” We just ran into each other Klaus Janson. JOHN: Yes. That’s correct. at a party, that’s all. Gray Area ™ and ©2008 John MM: When you were thinking of the Romita, Jr. and Glen Brunswick. MM: How did you meet Glen Brunswick? story, did you think that fans might not expect something like this from you? That this was coming out of left field somewhat?

JOHN: I didn’t think it was so much of a foreign idea that it wouldn’t be accepted. I was curious as to what the reaction would be to a story that I had created, myself. I didn’t have any precon- ceived notions about it. I just was hoping that it wouldn’t fall upon deaf ears, and that someday somebody would turn it into a movie, and that’s still my ambition.

MM: In essence, it’s basically a love story, right?

JOHN: It’s got some reli- gious overtones, it’s got some supernatural overtones, of course, and it’s got a lot of love story in it, yeah.

MM: Is the story over? Or is there still more to tell?

JOHN: There’s plenty more. We’re going to work on getting some of that out.

MM: Tom Brevoort seems to be one of your main editors at [Marvel]. Is there a reason why it’s usually him that you work with?

JOHN: I like working with him. He’s a good man and he’s a quality editor, and I’ve worked with him many times, and I’ll work with him again.

66 Storytelling and Part 6: the Creative Process MM: What’s a typical working day for you? When do MM: Which are the main ones? Andrew Loomis? you start in the day? JOHN: Oh, yes, of course. Loomis and Bridgman’s JOHN: I start around nine or ten in the morning and anatomy, but they go way back to college. And then I work until eleven o’clock at night, so I put in ten, have books on the illustrator, Gibson; Moebius; J.C. eleven, twelve hours a day each day, six days a week. Leyendecker—those kinds of things.

MM: What do you do to MM: When you start keep yourself focused? working, do you loosen Do you listen to music? up? Do you sketch?

JOHN: Talk radio. I’m a JOHN: I work out. I political junkie. And I lis- exercise every day. ten to a lot of music on weekends, and comedies, MM: But, drawing-wise, actually, British comedies. do you—

MM: Do you have any JOHN: Oh, drawing- security blankets that wise. Nope, I go right you keep around? Are to what I was doing. there things you like MM: And you can having by you as you always remember where work? you were? Don’t you JOHN: The rest of my usually try to finish what family over the place. you’ve got before you?

MM: Is there anything JOHN: No, not neces- else, like toys? sarily. I can pick up right where I left off. JOHN: No, not really toys, but there’s a lot of MM: What kind of pen- comedy to be gotten to, cil do you use? Do you and what I mean is, I lis- use a mechanical pencil? ten to comedy on satel- JOHN: I use a mechan- lite radio, I listen to ical 2H lead to layout, comedy on cable, reruns and then I use a of British comedies. mechanical HB lead to Those are my toys, basi- tighten up. cally—a lot of comedies. MM: And I’m guessing you like a certain kind of paper, MM: Do you have any favorite art books that you keep too, right? Nothing too glossy? nearby? JOHN: That’s correct. I don’t like it too glossy, so the JOHN: Yeah, I keep a lot of anatomy books—illustra- paper I use is this 2-ply Bristol board paper. tive anatomy, and not a lot of photographic anatomy. And books of some of my favorite illustrators, and MM: Do you pencil differently depending who the things of that nature, but it would take forever for me to inker is? Do you think differently if you know who’s list all the guys that I have. going to ink it beforehand?

78 JOHN: Only if it’s somebody I haven’t worked with, but since I’ve worked in the past with everybody that I’m working with now, it’s not necessary to be careful in any particular spot.

MM: You haven’t worked with Tom Palmer a lot, from what I can remember.

JOHN: Yeah, about ten years ago, but intermittently he had done some covers, and then he would help on The Eternals series, so he’s worked on my stuff quite a bit.

MM: Okay. So you don’t like it completely silent when you work?

JOHN: No, I don’t like it quiet. I don’t like to hear my heartbeat.

MM: Do you get distracted a lot during the day, with your wife and son?

JOHN: Yes, there are always dis- tractions, but I manage to over- come them.

MM: Do you ever ask how your books are doing when talking to your editors?

JOHN: Worry about them? Yes, I always worry, because if my stuff doesn’t sell, then I won’t be given the amount of work that I’m used to, and of course there’s always a concern with sales.

MM: But you don’t go online looking for the top 200 books, do you?

JOHN: No, the only thing I look at occasionally are a couple of message boards that I get links to JOHN: No. As a matter of fact, half of the from people who I’ve told to send them people who say the nasty things are doing to me. it just to be nasty. I actually read the criti- Previous Page and cisms, because no matter how silly or fool- Above: John’s pencil- MM: Who’s sending you these links? ish some of them can be... some of them and-marker rough along Why do you want to know? You know have merit, but the silly ones I read, it with his finished pencils for the cover of Spider- these people online are often hiding actually keeps me on my toes. behind fake names and false identities, Man: The Lost Years #3. and I don’t know if I would consider a MM: How have fans changed, in your Spider-Man ™ and ©2008 message board proper criticism. To me, view, from the day you started until now? Marvel Characters, Inc. it’s not. Is it different interacting with fans?

79 JOHN: Interacting, personally, at conven- what they’re talking about. They think tions hasn’t changed. The people are just that you’re pretty much phoning it in or as wonderful as they were before. The dif- something. Below: ference is the Internet and the anonymity A clash of titans. JOHN: Right, yeah. John’s pencils and Klaus and the ability to be nasty and overtly crit- Janson’s inks for World ical. Being critical is not bad, but I mean MM: But they’re just trying to be jerks. War Hulk #1. really nasty, and foul, and obnoxious. Next Page: Who could Those people seem to thrive on being able JOHN: You can’t say that, because people possibly think John was to say whatever they want anonymously. are free to voice their opinions. Why I “phoning it in” on World But the people at conventions are fantastic. continue to read those criticisms, no mat- War Hulk with pencils They’re still just as wonderful. They’re ter how ridiculous they are, is it keeps me like this? probably all related to the wonderful peo- on my toes. It really does. Because, no Black Bolt, Dr. Strange, Hulk, ple I met the first time I ever went. matter how you try, you still remember Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic ™ and ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc. that there are a lot of people that don’t like MM: I was reading some of the comments your stuff very much. But what are you when you were on that World War Hulk going to do? Instead of ignoring the fact thread. Some of the fans don’t even know that there are a lot of people that don’t like it, I pay attention to the fact that there are people who don’t like it, and try to get better. I always get it, and I always will.

MM: But they might not even be buying the book, that’s what might be the worst thing. They just flipped through it in the store and they’re going to criticize it?

JOHN: Yeah. There are a couple of people that are especially nasty, and I try to play with them, but they don’t want to even joke around. They just want to hate.

MM: They don’t have a sense of humor.

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