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Transcript of Proceedings Lance Armstrong v. SeA Promotions, Inc. Volume: 12 January 19,2006 Page 2445 Page 2447 IN THE MATIER OF AN ARBITRATION I INDEX BETWEEN WITNESS PAGE 2 2 MICHAEL ASHENDEN _ LANCE ARMSTRONG and § 3 CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. LEVINSTEIN 2449 3 TAILWIND SPORTS, INC § CROSS EXAMINATION (Cont'd) BY MR. LEVINSTEIN 2694 § 4 5 DAVID WALSH 4 Claimants, § ARBITRATlON BEFORE THE DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. TILLOTSON 2492 § HONORABLE RICHARD 6 CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. HERMAN 2601 5 VS. § FAULKNER, RICHARD RE·DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. TILLOTSON 2646 § CHERNICK AND TED LYON 7 RE-CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. HERMAN 2662 6 SCA PROMOTIONS, INC and § 8 9 CLAIMANTS' EXHIBITS HAMMAN INSURANCE SERVICES, § 10 71 . 9/20i04 Confidential Memo reo meeting 2624 7 INC § with David Walsh § 11 8 Respondents. § 11 0 - 7/21/04 e-mail from L Shiels to B. 2633 12 Stapleton reo ESPN rerpoter 9 \3 118 - Kearney - Calculations (USOC file) 2454 10 14 144 - 8/2004 W ADA International Standard for 2489 II ARBITRATION Laboratories 12 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 15 13 JANUARY 19,2006 145 - 6112/04 e-mail from P Steffen (Walsh 2604 16 files) 14 VOLUME 12 17 15 CONFIDENTIAL RESPONDENTS' EXHIBITS 16 18 l7 25 - LA Confidential 2454 19 18 43 - USA Today article "Armstrong bonus 2521 19 On 19th day of January, 2006, at 9:05 20 . withheld for now" 20 a.m., the arbitration in the above proceedings came on 21 44 - Test results 2739 21 before Arbitrators Richard Faulkner, Richard Chernick 22 48 - 10/4/04 e-mail from Kelly Price to 2673 22 and Ted Lyon, at the offices of Richard Faulkner, Laura Hundley reo Lance Arnlstrong 23 23 12655 North Central Expressway, Suite 810, in the City 90 - Press Release "LA response to Ferrari 2648 24 of Dallas, County of Dallas, State of Texas. 24 Italian Court Decision" 25 25 105 - Walsh April 2001 transcript (full 2527 Page 2446 Page 2448 I APPEARANCES 2 FOR THE CLAIMANTS: Mr. Tim Herman 106 - Detailed notes of conversation off the 2569 3 Mr. Sean Breen 2 record with unnamed source HERMAN HOWRY & BREEN 4 1900 Pearl Street 3 107 - Walsh handwritten notes of interview 2570 Austin, Texas 78705-5408 with unnamed off-the-record source Ms. Lisa Blue 4 6 BARON & BUDD 108 - VeloNews article re: LA relationship 2646 J 100 Centrum Building 7 3102 Oak Lawn A venue 5 with Ferrari Dallas, Texas 75219 6 Mr. Mark S. Levinstein 7 9 WILLIAMS & CONNOLLY LLP 8 725 Twelfth Street N.W. 10 Washington D.C. 20005 9 II 10 FOR THE RESPONDENTS: 12 Mr. Jeffrey M. Tillotson 11 Mr. Cody L Towns 12 13 LYNN TILLOTSON & PINKER, LLP. Suite 1400 13 14 750 North St. Paul Street 14 Dallas, Texas 75201 15 15 16 ALSO PRESENT: 16 Ms. Manela Evora 17 Mr. Chris Compton 17 Mr. John Bandy 18 Mr. Robert Hamman 18 Mr. Michael Ashenden 19 19 Ms. Lynn G. Bone Ms. Marianne Ross 20 20 Mr. Bill Stapleton 21 Mr. Lawrence Temple 21 Dr. Jim Stray-Gundersen 22 22 23 23 24 24 25 25 Pages 2445 to 2448 Dickman Davenport, Inc. 214.855.5100 www.dickmandavenport.com 800,445.9548 Transcript of Proceedings Lance Armstrong v. SCA Promotions, Inc. Volume: 12 January 19, 2006 Page 2449 Page 245 1 1 PROCEEDINGS 1 A. When -- when you sit down and talk to 2 ARBITRATOR FAULKNER: Dr. Ashenden, 2 athl~tes, they will give you a very clear impression 3 you're still under oath, and you're still testifying 3 and they will use the words, I know X is doping, and 4 according to the statutes, so would you please resume 4 they relate to you the circumstances, and then when 5 with your cross. 5 you hear that from enough people over a long length of 6 CROSS EXAMINATION 6 time, and I would convey to you that the athletes knew 7 BY MR. LEVINSTEIN: 7 that the competitors were doping because that's how 8 Q. Dr. Ashenden, you were retained originally in 8 they related it to me. Now, that's probably what I 9 this case in April 2005. We established that 9 was trying to convey to you. 10 yesterday. 10 Q. SO it wasn't that you knew that their 11 A. Thereabouts, yes. 11 competitors were doping? 12 Q. When you were retained, you had already been 12 A. No, it's they conveyed that understanding to 13 involved in the Australian's Institute of Sport and 13 me. 14 working with elite athletes for years prior to that? 14 Q. Okay. Now, I asked you yesterday whether an 15 A. Yes. 15 artificial altitude environment increases red blood 16 Q. When you were contacted, did you at that time 16 cells. Do you recall that? 17 have a view as to whether Lance Armstrong used 17 A. I recall that discussion, yes. 18 performance enhancing drugs? 18 Q. Okay. And you said that it -- while the 19 A. I would say that I hadn't accepted any 19 manufacturer is likely to think so, it doesn't do it? 20 information that I heard and I had seen his remarkable 20 A. That's my opinion, yeah. 21 improvement in performance and so I was -- I was among 21 Q. Okay. But you were involved with a simulated 22 the band of people who didn't believe the explanation 22 altitude house of the Australian Institute of Sport, 23 I heard. 23 right? 24 Q. SO even in April when you started, you 24 A. Yes. 25 doubted that his performance was due to physiological 25 Q. And they built a whole building or rooms to Page 2450 Page 2452 1 explanations? 1 do exactly that, to create a hypoxic environment to ') "- A. I doubted that it was due to the explanations 2 simulate altitude? 3 that I heard. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. By that time you had already read Coyle's 4 Q. And that was the organization that you're 5 article? 5 with and you were involved in that project? 6 A. No, that -- that was shortly thereafter. It 6 A. Yes. 7 was within a matter of weeks before. 7 Q. And the purpose of that project was to 8 Q. SO you came in with the predisposition that 8 improve the performance of Australian athletes? 9 you thought there was a good chance that it wasn't due 9 A. I think there was -- there was a dual 10 to his own effort that he succeeded; that it involved 10 purpose. It was very clearly a heavy research project 11 the use of performance enhancing drugs? 11 and there was also the -- the opportunity to give our 12 A. I would probably characterize that a little 12 athletes access to simulated altitude. The -- the 13 more carefully. I would say that none of the 13 coaches and the athletes have a very clear 14 explanations I had heard seemed rational to me and so 14 psychological start on altitude. They believe that it 15 I -- I would be of the opinion that I've seen this 15 works and they feel a disadvantage when they have been 16 improvement in performance, I haven't heard a rational 16 competitive overseas, for example, getting access in 17 explanation. So I'm in the band of doubters. 17 altitude. 18 Q. And when you testified yesterday, you made 18 Now, quite often a coach would request, 19 reference to working with athletes who -- I'm going to 19 literally they would book in, we need X weeks in the 20 use the words -- you said suspected or knew that the 20 altitude house. And they typically got priority, and 21 athletes they were competing with were using drugs? 21 we would work our research around that, wherever 22 A. Yes. 22 possible we would overlap so that we collected data on 23 Q. When you say knew, you mean the athletes 23 their athletes while they were in the house. Now, we 24 weren't winning and they were working very hard and 24 knew sometimes the athletes and the coach's request 25 they somehow couldn't compete with their competitors? 25 was irrational from the physiology we understood. But Pages 2449 to 2452 Dickman Davenport, Inc. 214.855.5100 www.dickmandavenport.com 800.445.9548 Transcript of Proceedings Lance Armstrong v. SCA Promotions, Inc. Volume: 12 January 19, 2006 Page 2453 Page 2455 1 you don't step in and say your approach to training Q. (BY MR. LEVlNSTElN) Okay. 48 .8 was the 2 sucks, you're not going to do this. You comply with 2 highest and the lowest was the 41 .2 on the LA 3 the coach wherever possible, because it's important to 3 Confidential number? 4 give an athlete a positive psychological frame of 4 A. Yes. 5 mind. 5 Q. Okay. So that's over a seven-year period a 6 Now, I would explain to you that they 6 difference of7.6? 7 were the purposes of the altitude house, not one or 7 A. Yes, I'll rely on your math. 8 the other, both of them. 8 Q. IfI'm wrong, there's a real big ruckus about 9 Q. One of the purposes was for the athletes to 9 this 48.8 minus 41.2, okay, 7.6. 10 use it? 10 Now, I tried to ask you -- you said this 11 A.