Queensland
Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]
Legislative Assembly
THURSDAY, 24 OCTOBER 1912
Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy
Gommonwmlth Deposit Bill. l24 OcTOBER.] Appropriation Bill Nc,, 3.
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY,
THURSDAY, 24 OCTOBER, 1912.
The SPEAKER (Hon. W. D. Armstrong-,.. Lockyer) took the chair at half-past 3 o'clock._
APPROPRIATION BILL No. 3. AsSE_:ifT. The SPEAKER : I have to report that I,_ this day, presented to His Excellency the· Governor Appropriation Bill No. 3 of 1912- 13, for the Royal assent, and that His Excel lency was pleased, in my presence, to sub scribe his assent thereto in the name and, on behalf of His Majesty. Hon. W. D. Armstrong.] 1934 Export Tax on Hides. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply
ASSEKT TO BILLS. SUPPLY. The SPEAKER. announced the receipt of RESUMPTION OF COMMITTEE-SEVENTH messages from the Governor, CDnveying His :Excellency's assent, on behalf of His ALLOTTED DAY. _Majesty, to the following Bills:- (.fir. J. Stoclart, Logan, in the chair.) Drainage o.f :i\lines Bill. HO)JE SECRETARY'S DEPARTMENT-PRISONS. Wynnum and Manly Gas and Lighting Que,,tion-That the sum of £27,954 be C<>mpany, Limited, Bill. granted for " Prisons "-stated. Appropriation Bill Ko. 3. lVIr. WELSBY (Jierthyr) noticed the sum Govern;nent Savings Bank Stock, Loan, of £600 was put down for Comptroller and Treasury Bills Acts Amendment General of Prisons. He had looked through Bill. the Estimates, and had not found any in crease made in the salary for a good many PAPERS. years past. Captain Pennefather had h<;>ld The followmg papers, laid on the table, high positions in the State, and a gentl~man 'Were order;:,d to be printed:- with his knowledge should receive a higher Report upon the working of the Queens salary than £600 per annum. The other land Government Savings Bank fo.r evening, when discussing the amount to t~e the year ending 30th June, 1912. Commissioner of Police, he had spoken of the ~n:nounts paid t
Helena, and he (Mr. Welsby) would like to see the men sent down there come back mention what had taken place in other years better men but he was afraid that there on the islands. He had gone to the trouble was not m;,ch hope of reforming some of .of going through all the "Votes and Pro them. It was a well-known fact that ceeaings " from 1899 to 1910, and every one criminals came from the other States, and -of these mentioned the strong anxiety which committed crimes in Brisbane for the was felt about the condition of the buildings pleasure of going to St. Helena. (Oh l -at St. Helena. The Treasurer himself, in and laughter.) Members might laugh,_ but 1906, was reported in Hansard to have said- he had that information on exceedmgly high authority, and it was a fact. Another " He would also like to know whether matter in connection with St. Helena that the Government proposed to take- any was dr'
figures for him. He found that the cost of of the people of Brisbane, and not for yacht- the " Otter" going down to St. Helena two ing people alone. There were thousands of or three times a week was not debited as a people who signed the petition in favour of charge against St. Helena. The " Otter" taking that course, and yet that petition had. went down to the bay on ·wednesdays and been shelved: He acquainted the Fridays, and carried stores to St. Helena [4 p.m.] city council of his action, and and Dunwich, and on many occasions called the whole of the council ac back at St. Helena to take away empties quiesced in his action. They did not and prisoners. Why, then, was there no w:mt the island for yachting purposes. charge made for the " Otter" against St. at all, becau'e those engaged in yacht!ng Helena? He had been twitted by the Home could go further afield. The Home Secre Secretary with having said that a prisoner tary told them that there were more islands· could escape from St. Helena. In reply, he lw~!des St. Helena, and he also said that would say that if anyone studied the con thev had Peel Island further down. If the tour of Moreton Bay, and saw the depth of Home Secretary wanted to remain his friend water between St. Helena and Peel Island, for life he hoped hG would not mention he would find that the water was exceed Peel Island to him again. (Laughter.) They ingly shallow at dead low water, and that had no right to contaminate Moreton Bay, the channel was very narrow. \Vould the as they had done by the establishment of a Home Secretary inform him where the star penal establishment on St. Helena, by the board blade of the " Otter" was broken establishment of a lazaret on Peel Island, about a month ago? If the water between and bv the establishment of an inebriates' the pier head at St. Helena and Fisherman institution further down on the same island. Island was as deep as was alleged, whv In a few years' time they would have the should a steamer break a blade of her pr,;. whole of the sewerage of Brisbane being dis peller there? He did not like to make these charged into Morteon Bay at Luggage things public, because in doing so he was Point, and what would they find then? The doing a certain amount of· damage to the owrs~a steamers generally arrived at department. But he felt bound to sav that a Pinkenba at about 11 o'clock in the morning, man could easily swim across there.· It was so that on arriving in MoretDn Bav the first said that if a man attempted to do so, he thing they would see early in the morning was an island on the port side. The passen would be in danger of being taken by a gers on board would ask what island it was, shark. Could the Home Secretary tell him and they would be told it was the penal of a single life which had been l~st in that establishment for Queensland. They would neighbourhood from that cause? also be told that the island a littlo further The HOME SECRETARY: OnJv a few months off was used for the purposes of a leper ago a young chap was takeli. by a shark at station, and a little further down the Redland Bay. inebriates were kept in a home. Then, as the vessel got nearer to the river, they _would Mr. WELSBY: That young fellow was find the whole of the sewage of Bnsbane not taken by a shark. He, with some other being discharged into Moreton Bay about boys, was fooling in a boat at Garden· 50 feet from Lugga ~e Point. Island, and the boat capsized, and he was drowned. A shark did not take him, but Mr. COYNE: \Vhat effect would it have a most extraordinary thing occurred. With on the sewage if the prisons were shifted? in forty-eight hours after that an old man (Laughter.) fishing at Dunwich caught a shark 10 or 12 Mr. WELSBY: It would be better to feet long. The shark was opened, and in have the prison on the mainland, at any it was found the head of the boy who had t"ate, instead of allowing passengers arriving been drowned. The head of the boy was to point it out as the first thing they saw recognised by certain gold filling in the in the bav. He had a verv serious charge to teeth. That was the first occasion that he make in connection with St. Helena, and he had ever known of a shark to take a dead was careful to make it when there were body. If the Home Secretary was desirous no ladies in the gallery. He did not_ like of making the trial, then, old as he was, he referring to matters which were practically would give the hon. gentleman a demon a public scandal, but it was the duty of a stration some day of how one could escape public man to make what charges he _had to from St. Helena, if the hon. gentleman make in a public manner. In the prison at would allow him to escape from the stockade. St. Helena they had what were known as· (Laughter.) Had those men who escaped "associated wards," and in these wards from from the stockade and hid in the kitchen ten to twelve men were allowed to sleep. ceiling for two weeks known as much as he ·without saving anvthing further, they knew and many other boating men knew about very well w'hat men confined in that way would the bay down there, they would not have do. \Vhen ten or twelve m.en were collected attempted to take a boat out of the shed., together in that way every night, certain but would have gone down to the beach, things took place. which was a glorious beach, and picked u.p any driftwood, broken paddle, or oth-er Mr. COYNE : Is there not some protection in thing they might have found, and, after the numbers ? swimming about 100 yards, they would have Mr. WELSBY: No, there was not, and· got into water which was so shallow that a he had knowledge that certain things took boat drawing 2 feet 6 inches was in the place that were not known to the Home Sec mud. retary. No matter who the Minister might The HOME SECRETARY: They won't risk it. be, take the Chief Secretary or any other· Cabinet Minister they could not be expected Mr. WELSBY: They might risk it. Ere to know the wh~le of the various doings in was sorry to have heard that there had their departments. been so much sr~id in the correspondence on this subject about a desire to obtain S.t. The bell indicated that the hon. member's Helena for the use of yachting people. The cl€• time had expired. sire of those who had agitated in this matter An OPPOSITION MEMBER : Take another. was to obtain the ieland for the recreation five minutes. [Mr. Welsby. Supply. ~24 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1937
The CHAIRMAN: The hon. member's the suggestion about the experimental farm full time has expired. was concerned. He believed that, since Mr., MURPHY: Get someone to moye an the pamphlet was written, something had ame_nament for you, and you can speak been done to cope with fire, and some im agam. provement had been made to the buildings_ Mr. BERTRAM (iliarer): It was not often Captain Pennefather, some years ago, advo that he saw eye to eye with the hon. mem cated that the penal establishment should be ber fcr .. Morthyr, but in this instance he con on the mainland, and he hoped, when the Go curred m evcrythmg that he had ,aid. The vernment were taking into consideration the hon. I;1emJx;r. for Merthyr referred to a spending of money on the penal establish pamph,et wmch had been written by an ment, that they would bear in mind what ex-warder of St. Helena, and he had a· copy had been said by the hon. member for o~ the pamphlet with him, and proposed to Merthyr and others. He was not a member give a few e":tracts from it. The pamphlet of the league referred to by the hon. member was wntten by a man who had been a for Merthyr, but he was one who believed Warder at St. Helena for some years. that St. Helena should be reserved as a national park. He did not speak in a Mr. COYNE: Was he discharged? patochial spirit, although he was a member Mr. BERTRAM: No; the writer said that for a metropolitan constituency, but he St. Helena. as a penal establishment was thought St. Helena should be reserved at a ~n utter failure, and there were reasons why natio11al park. It should be abolished. Mr. COYNE: What benefit would the peopl~ The Hmm SECRETARY: When was that of Camooweal and Burke get out of it? pamphlet written? :Th;Ir. BERTRAM: About five years ago Mr. BERTRAM: They would get a bene Tl.us was what the writer of the pamphlet. fit out of it when they came to Brisbane_ sa>d- What made Sydney so popular as a holiday " St.. Helena, as a penal establish resort was the fact that there were so many ment, IS an utter ~ailure, and there are places to go to, particularly seaside places, many re.'tsons why lt should be abolished which could be reached at a cost of 6d. or ls. One .of Qu.een.sla_nd's fa:irest spots and most If St. Helena were reserved at a national fertile sml, It 1s an Ideal situation, and park, then the people could go down thete ~ts nearness to Bnsbane should render at a cost of ls. return. There were hun It ':aluable . as a State asset for an ex dreds of working men who could not afford perimental farm. I have heard its to take a week-end trip down to Moreton natur,al b~auties expounded from a pri Bay at the present time, because it cost soner s pomt of view, and that is another 2s. Od., and if a man took his wife if would reaso~ for its abolishment. Long, ~ld be Ss., or perhaps it would run into half ~ :amblmg, rotten, and continuous build sovereign if he had two or three children. '?gs .un~er one roof, with no fire-ex and there were not many working men wha tmgmshmg appliances beyond a few could afford that. It would be a popular ·week-f,nd resort it vvero made a national b~ckets of water, nothing short of . a if miracle can prevent a fearful loss of life park, and the penal establishment was l.uilt s~ould a fire occur at night, which, if on the mainland. With regard to what the discovered, could not be coped with. han. member for Merthyr said about the The Comptroller-General, in his an11ual associated wards, he noticed from "Knibb's report, always. lays stress on this awful Year Book," that Queensland compared un probable contmgency, but without any favourably with the other States. The per· good effect. Nothing can be done for centage of persons in associated wards was want of funds. . . . . Should a fire much greater in QueeJJ.sland than in tho occur, no one can get in to extinguish it other States. That was a matter for regret, and the corridors and cells would be full because they could not expect rcformatio'< of sm<;ke, and render the unlocking of to come out of that. It was a question which had been written about by eminent penolo· th~ J?risoners' cells an impossibility, and gists. He had in his hand a work called not~mg h.as been done to minimise the ternble r.Isk. I do not wish to be an "Penological and Preventive Principles," by alarmist, but this stern duty to expose William Tallack; and, dealing with the be . the duty of everyone question of prison separation and classifica shoul~ tion, he said- ~cquamted with· the grave danger that Is. always pre~nt. Nothing probably " The separation of prisoners, from Will be done n; the wa.y of rebuilding each other only, and for duly limit0 :l St: !Jelena, owmg to the cost of main periods, is a first essential of good tammg boats to serve the establishment cliscipline, and an indispe:r;_,c:able condi and Dunw}ch, which should be removed tion of success in penal treatment, to the mamland. A penal establishment whether iutended as a deterrent, .,r rC' shoulc]. he formed near Brisbane on formatory. It is also the best basis for modern lines, which would then a:dmit classification. .It is the safest and, ulti of the proper classification and reforma mately, though not immediately, the . tron of prisoners. It is also a hard, un chertpest arrangement, for adoption in natural life to keep the prison officers at criminal institutions." St: Helena for so long a period and I thmk I m!l'y s!l'y this isolation fr~m wife The writer went on to give the opimon of a?d. ~amrly IS not conducive to the other penologists, and mentioned Mr. John d!smplnJ_e of the estaJ;>lishment, as they Howard, the eminent penologist. This is are pumshed by such Isolation almost as what he said- much as the prisoners, and do not attach " John Howard was awakened to the so much value to their positions as they bad effects of prison association by his might under happier circumstances." own personal experience of its disgusting He did not agree with the writer, so far as evils, in a French gaol, to which he ha.d 1912-6 0 JJ1r. Bertram.] .1938 Supply . [A'lSEMBLY.] Supply.
been consigned-after his capture at sea Mr. BERTRA:::\1: No. It was a good by a privateGr-during a time of war arg:1mcnn in favour o£ building pri"·ons on between England and France. Thence the mainland, and doing away with the asso forth he stGadily advocated separation, ciated ~.,-arcls. industry, and other conditions of im J\lr. TROU'r: \Yould vou be in favour of proved prison discipline. priooners working in qUarries? " In like manner, M. Ducpetiaux, the eminent administrator of nenal reform in Mr. DEH.TR),M: That might possibly be Belgium, was aroused to- the necessities done if prioons were established on the main of the subject by his own sufferings, us land. a political prisoner, prior to the Bel The bell indicated that the hon. memLer's gian revoluhon of 1830. YVhilet in con time had expired. finement, his feelings of decency and 11r. BERTRA::\1 (continuing) said he propriety were revolted by his enforced noticed in th ·· ( 'omptroller's report that the association with vile and filthy com average cost of tho prisoners 1vas £50 od~ panions. He became profoundly con per annum, less who t they produced at St. vinct>d, fron1 his ov,rn observation, that Helena. He hoped the Home Sc<;retary association renders imprisonment less ·would t& 1ce nocice of what had been smd punitory to the worst class of criminals, rrrr.!!rding the nef>"'Ssity of establishing and more so to the less degraded. Just pn,ons on the mainland. in proportion as a man is debased, he will enjoy the companionship of corrupt Mr. :BOUCHARD (South Brisbane) under comradeg. And it affords additional stood that some of the warders at St. Helena pl{)asure to the worst wretches in prison h:.td recentlv sent a petition to the Home to corrupt others. who may at first be Secl"ctary \V~ith the vio·w of having certain less familiar with evil than themselves." privilerres accorded to them ; and he would In view of the fact that prominent penolo like to "know whether the Mini·.ter had given gists expressed themselves against the systmn consideration to their request. He was of associated wards, the Government would be aware that the present Home Secretary had well advised when spending money on new probably clone more than any other Minister buildings to bear thoce facts in mind.. He in charge of the Home Department in giv understood that the buildings at St. HPlena ing consideration to the claims of the war were unsuitable for anything of the kind, c1.3rs at St. Helena, also those of the officers at and it would be useless to expc·nd any more the gaol, and other officers in his depart money on them to make them anything like ment. The hon. gentleman was always sym a modern prison. He hoped the Govern pathetic with respect to requests of the offi ment would. bear in mind the remark made cers in his department. Last year he gave by the hon. member for Merthyr that the a resiclen€ial allowance to officers at St. cost of building a penal establishment at Helena who had been in the service fifteen St. Helena would be 30 per cent. to 36 per years. But there were 11 arclers at St. Helena cent. greater than if the prison were con w·ho had not served fifteen years, and they structed on the mainlaacl. He regretted. likewise thought they wer'" entitled to. some that the Comptroller of Prisons. in his re consic' :it in his annual n_,port. There \Vere \Yhile that might be so, wer in !xing ~he amount d his salary, which prepared to admit that it would be a fai~iy should be mcreased proportionately. easy matter for a good swimmer to sw1m Mr. BARBER (Bundaberg) : If some of across a certain part and get into shallow those. hon. members who talked about the water. The han. member said a prisoner ber·u~res of St. Helen1., and the balmy breezes conld swim across to Fisherman Island, b_lowmg O:Ver the island during the day and then across the Boat Passage, and. land time,_ and the zephyrs wafted across it in the at Lytton. What would the police authori. <:JVenmg, had the misfortune to be put there ties be doing while prisoners were getting for s~ven years' "hard," it would be in ashore at Lytton? Would not Major Cahill .terestmg to hear their experiences at ths be able to c:tll out his forces and surround end _of the term. There was no doubt the prisoners, as he had att<>mpted to sur tha~ _It was a very nice place, and he fully :ound_ the strikers during the recent strike · antrCJpated th:'lt the hon. member for Mer 111 Bn.sbane? While he (Mr. Barber) would thy~ would rais.e the much-vexed question of be quite prepared to take on the contract, .havmg ~he prrson remo.ved from there to a" far as the swimming business was con the mamland, He noticed that stron cerned, he thought there would be very remarks ha? bee11: made at a meeting held th: small chance of a man escaping after his ·other evenmg with reference to the Hom arrival at Lytton, because he would be Secretary and the GovPrnment, and tha% lassooed by a constable. The hen. member gcntleman"~Gnn,Jcted with the august body ~ad further weakened his argument by say l<_rmwn as The l\Jorcton Bay League " prac Ing that, after all, the prisoners did not get tically· threatened tG annihilate the Govern the benefit of the lovely balmy breezes which ;ment at the next e!Pction if St. Helena was blew from north, south, east, and west. Pro ·no.t set apart as a national park. bably they got the benefit of those breezes l\Ir. COYNE: A nico term. when they blew from the half-points or quarter-points of the compass, because, as . Mr. BARBER: It souncled very nice. thv hon. member must know, the wind did ·Quite recently he made a trip by the not always blow direct from north, south, ·" Ko.opa" to Bribie Ishnd. Before thev uot east, or west. Another argument used by Withm half a mile of the island he -h~p the hon. member was that, when the sewerage ·pened to. look throug-h his glasses, rrnd saw sysh~n1 \Vas in operation in Brisbane, the -~?me white specks, in the distance. \Vhen river would not be a nice sight for passen z::?-e ,boat had twa up to the ·wharf, he gers coming here from the South. It would Scrolled ashore and inspect-ed those white not be any worse than the sight which met -.specks, a:.1d h? count.ed some forty-:seven the gaze of passengers going to Melbourne placards, or .noboes, "·hwh were posted up in and up the Yarra, for whr,n they got into e"'tery concelva))le placc·~on hu."Tipie:s loo·s the loYcly smelly Yarra they received the trees, and. everywhere-intimating' tl~~t full effect of the ~cwerage. He had been persons la':'dlf~g, or desiring- to- land, had to looking through th the matter would be considered by the Go at St. Helena were engaged in useful and vernment. The Home Secretary was to be elevating occupations, and that the establish congratulated on the number of :ceforms he ment wao practica!Jy self-supporting. He h~d. introduced. It could be regarded as a had occasion previously to complain that distmct compliment to his administration the prisoners at Stewart's Creek had no when they had members rising in their plac~ opportunity of learning trades by which they and saying that they knew a number of might earn their living, and he was glad to men who committed certain crimes in order notice from the Comptroller's report that to get down to St. Helena. He thought that they now had th" opportunity of doing spoke well for St. Helena as a penal estab useful work. He was very glad that this im lishment, and the way in which it was portant step had been taken, and he hoped managed. He did not know that there was that the principle would be- extendv'd. There anything further he wished to say on the c0uld be no two opinions about St. vote; but the matter he had mentioned was Helena being an ideal place for a penal a very important one, and he thought it establishment. The hon. member for JYierthyr rnade a strong indictment against the Go ~hould receive consideration. He might vernment, and if some of the statements Instance the sentence that was commuted which he made had been made on another the other day by the Government-the case occasion, apart from the present controversy., in which the death sentence on an unfor he thought they would ha.-e been entitled to tunate individual was commuted to im very serious consideration, if not to a de prisonment for life. His contention was partmental inquiry, but the whole of his that the unfortunate man in that case had are;uments fell to the ground, because they an inclination to commit crime of a certain were made with the express pm:pose of ac character; and, if the man had been treated quiring the island as a holiday resort, and in the mann<'r he sugg<'gted, that unfor not for the purpose of improving the prison tunat" murder would never have been com system. Members talked about making the mitted. A man of that kind wanted as much island a nD,tional park, but what was intended looking after as an unfortunate inmate in a at most was a Brisbane park at the expense lunatic asylum. of the rest of the State. As one who did Mr. WINSTANLEY (Queenton): With re not belong to Brisbane, he considered it spect to the important question of indeter would not be fair or just to put the country minate sentenec,g, he certainlv thought the to the expense of removing the pen:tl estab fact that prisoners repeated!; found them lishment to some place inland. And the selves in custody showed that 'short sentences island would not be handed over to the had no beneficial effect. In his opinion citizens of Brisbane as a whole, becauee only after the first sentence, rut any rate' a select part of the oommunity of Brisban"' it would be well to impose indeterminat~ would be able to tak., advantage of St. sentences, and let it rest with the authori Helena as a pleasure resort if it were con ties to liberate persons so sentenced when verted into a national park. The han. mem it was considered they were qualified to join ber for Dalby talked about the national park society again with the probability of taking near Dalby, and spoke about it being beauti care of themselves and leading "honest and fied. but that would have to be at the ex industrious liv St. Helena could be used in respect to an Mr. McCORMACK: The people whom the establishment at any other place and while State wanted to reform were the people who he was of opinion that improve~ents ought did not want to go back again; men who to be made on modern lines, he thought no wanted to get back again no prison would better place could be found than St. Helena. reform. He believed there was some reform Mr. ADAMSON (Rocklwmpton): He was not effected at St. Helena. He had m10t a clerk going to enter into the merit5 of St. Helena who had embezzled money, and. who was to as a State prison; he simply wanted to ask day a good citizen, and had told him that a question. The other night he asked a St." Helena was a splendid place, and that question concerning the salaries of attendants if there was any hope of reforming a pri in the prisons at Rockhampton, Brisbane soner it was there. This man compared it and Townsville. The matron in Rockhamp~ more than favourably with the gaol at Stew ton was paid a great deal less than the art's Creek, where he spent a small portion of matron in Brisbane, and only half as much his sentence. St. Helena Penal Establish as the matron in Townsville. ment was of much greater importance as The HOME SECRETARY : There are very few a reformatory than it would be as a pleasure female prisoners in Rockhampton Gaol. park. He had not heard one member show Mr. ADAMSON: As to the whole ques the a,isabilities attached to an inland prison. tion of prisons and penology, there could be There were · disabilities attached to inland an interesting debate on the most advanced prisons which did not affect St. Helena, and system of prisons and dealing with pri that was one of the reasons why the island soners. He had the privilege on one or should be retained as a prison. There was two occasions of going through the estab another matter he wished to bring forward lishments at St. Helena and Boggo road. with respect to ministers of religion visiting Good work ·,vas being done; and the Comp prisons. A case was brought nuder his notice ~roller was awa;re of the best things done where a minister visited Boggo Road Gaol, m other countrres, and he hoped the Go and in the course of his sermon told the pri vernment would give that officer the chance soners to beware of socialism and agita of putting into practice reforms which would tors. He held that this should not be al make our prisons truly educative places lowed. Ministers of religion should be al where people would be reformed instead of lowed to go there to give spiritual comfort being degraded,_ and which they would be to the prisoners, if necessary, but they able to leaye with a better chance of doing should not be allowed to preach against any useful work in the community. He had. particnlar doctrine. This matter had been pleasure in saying that, from brought under his notice by a prisoner who [5.30 p.m.] what he had seen in these pri- 4ad been in Boggo Road Gaol, and he could sons, good work was being done give the Home Secretary the name of the for the prisoners, and, if they were prepared minister who preached this sermon. The in to take advantage of the chance they had stance he referred to thawed. that ministers there, they might be better fitted to live an required a little watching as well as any honest fife when they came out than what other person in the community. they were when the,· went in. Mr. HUXHAM (Burandx) could speak Th1r. McCORMACK (Cairns) : He had been from personal experience, and what he had prepared to be convinced. by supporters of heard from other people "ho had come into the Moreton Bay League in connection with contact with the staff, of Captain Pcnnefather this prison reform, but it was rather re and the officers of the department with the markable that no sound argument was used greatest comm<:mdation. The Comptroller by any of the speakers in favour of the re moval of this prison. brought into his methods that spirit of human kindness which was essential in the govern Mr. WELSBY : I hadn't time. ment of thf'se places. He sympathised with Mr. McCORMACK : The whole tenor of the Home S 1that. they were worth saving, and someone cumstances, to commit murder; it is .~rovided them wit~ work: Many a bright done in a moment-hurriedly. I know life had been sacrrficed m the community hundreds of cases where criminals have fr'?m the fact that they had committed one reformed and become useful citizens." crrme, and. as soon as they sought for em ployment nobody would touch them. There That was the opinion of a man after fifty was another matter that he wished to refer years' experience in connection with crimi to-that was the consideration which ought nals, and he (Mr. Hunter) held that, having to be shown to the female warders in our punished an offence, sufficient had been done .{iaols. He saw they were not down for any as far as the State was concerned, and that, mcrease. These women did good work, their while it was a good thing that the police hours were long, and they had. to watch should keep their eyes on criminals to pre through the. h'?urs of the mght when it was vent them committing further crimes, it was almost terrrfymg to some. Some means not desirable that a man should be in any should be adopted whereby men could take way prejudiced in the eyes of the employing ·O~ the night duties, so that these women public or anybody else, or anything done to mig~t not suffer the horrors of being cooped <.\estray his self-respect. up m the place at night. He again corn mended the suggBstion he had mad.e to the Mr. PAYNE (JJI itchell) : If there was one Home Secretary w~th reference to giving thing which would make him support St. these unfortunate prisoners, as they were c1is Helena being used as a penal establishment, .charged, an. opportunity of recovering their it was the argument of the hon. member for lost reputatwn. It was the one slip that Merthyr that it was a very beautiful spot. -often made a man a criminal, but if th""" \¥e should not put prisoners in unhealthy men were taken properh· in hand thev places. The causes of crime were largely want, drink, and temptation. He did not might becor:re highly-respected. members 0 "f the commumty. look upon every man in gaol as an abject creature. He believed they would find many Mr. HUNTER (Jlaranoa): There was a good-hearted men in gaol. In the old days, .good deal in what the hon. member for a man who was pressed for a horse and took Buranda said in regard to our prisoners one, and rode it for 50 miles, was put in that on leaving the prison they should be gaol for five years, which was a severe P!aced in the hands of people who woLl.ld penalty for such an offence. He had never ,!PVe them a chance. It often happened thac heard of the police hunting men after they Inen w11o haC. by mere accident fallen foul of had come out of gaol, and if that kind of the law, and suffered their .punishment, had thing was done he thought it was most the finger of scorn pointed at them and improper; but he had notwcd that when -a W';'re '?ften co:npelled by necessity to' com man was charged with an offence, the police, mit come agam. He had been waited upon and even the Crown Prosecutor, would rake In conncchon wrth. a man vrhorn he ernployed, up his record for the previous twenty years, :tnd w:>s askBd If he knew the character and tell the court how often he had beGn of. t~at man, an~ he was urged to get rid in gaol for other offences. He thought that of hur:. On askmg the man about it, he was wrong, as in nine cases out of ten it told him that he had been actually driven must prejudice the man sitting on the from one billet to another, because he- had bench. When a man served a sentence in 11'? sooner got settled in one position than gaol he was punished for the offence he his employer was told about him, and he had committed, and such a practice should was dnven away. They ought to show more be done away with and each case should be sympathy to this class of people, from the dealt with on the evidence adduced to prove fact that crime, after all, was very largely the particular offence with which the man ~ matter ~f accid.9nt, although in some cases was charged. While he would not like to It was habitual and even inherent. He would deprive the citizens of Brisbane of a beauty re.ad the remarks of Mr. 1-Yilliam Allan spot, he was satisfied that St. Helena was Pmkerton, a detective in the United States naturally adapted for a penal settlement, Helena presented very much greater advan crime and prison life, were unanimo~s ~hat,. tages in that respect than places on the main where it was possible to reform a cnmmal, land, where a man was constantly confined it was the duty of the State to undertake within stone walls. Tho. suggest t<> the hon. member for Merthyr to particular:j ple-tse.cJ .to notice that dairying, give them an exhibition of wl1at he could do, agriculture, and allred trades wer: taught but the hon. membm· was not prepared to at St. Helena, and in .a letter he sard- do so at that particular time. (Laughter.) He did not think there were many prisoners " I think it i-, an excellent idea to at St. Helena who would make the uttempt, teach the prisoners trades which would ene~ble them to leaye the city and go out if it WfiF only for the reason that the ·hon. member for Menhyr gave-that a number of on the laud ard c'lrn an honest living." the prisoners ""'.vho 1vere down thoro com T<> him~~.lf Mr. Connolly exprc,sed the· mittod crimes in order to be confined at St. Helena. (Laughter.) opinion that there wu,s no r;noro s~itable pluc-e than St. Hclew, for a pnson, wrth the Mr. Huxru~r: ·what c'.c:J.pes have you had obj.ect that the State had in view-:-uamel:f, from other gaols? to rdorm those who were expratmg therr The HOME RECRETARY: Com para. offen{'es. In c~JnnPntion with one of tho tively fe". In other gaols they had perforce rra.tters thott ~\lr. Connolly mentioned, he to on1ploy a larger nu1nbor of warders 1vho v:0uld point o<.~t that in )895, at the sug: had the prisoners under obs·ervation, and gcstion of tho Comptroller-General. a small thev wore confined within a small .area with herd of Ayrshire cattle were purchased for high walls around them, and escape was not £r·~o. Rince then they had sold the progen:: possible. They must realise that if they of that little herd stocked to the value ot were going to carry out their policy of re £6,000 or £7,000, and that has assisted formation, St . .Helena •sas the most suitable matoriallv in k<'eping down the cost o,f the place for it. .He had seen many letters in maintena'nce of that -prison. Under the con the paper which he presumed em:mated from ditions which existed at St. Helena, the the Moreton Bay League, and he noticed prisoners -~were practically on .a farm. ~o.n .. thoy nlluded to the priboners as "Burglar members who had visited the island nDtrced. Bill," or "Burglar So .and So "-as persons that there were cDwsheds and yarJs, and who were beneath consideration. He had piggeries, and the. prisone~s. whose .work it no doubt that those gentlemen who were de was to attend to those partwular duties were sirous of ,attaining possession of the island as free as c"'~ulrl be save that they \Vere for tho purpose of gratifying their own prisoners. and Lhat 'they could n?t escape pleasu"e e0nsidered the prisoner was un frcm the island. It must be admrtted that worthy of their consideration at all. environment had some effect on the char acicr of mankind and taking the methods Mr. McRPHY: Thev want to do .a bit of adopted there in 'conndction with discipline, burglary on their own account. (Laughwr.) and the environment of the place, there co.uld· h.l not the slighte;t doubt. that it had a The HOME SECRETARY: He would not great effect upon the priwners there And go so f<1r as that, but when the:· remembered he knew as the admmistrative head of oome that the league said that if they did not get the experien~e, that it had a. considerable effect island they were going to overthrow the Go in the reformation of those who were con· Yernmcnt and make the whole State pay for the fined there. · island without proposing to raise one penny Mr. COYNE: It has a seJ,ttary effect. piece themselves for the upkeep and mainten ance of the island, then he agreed with the The HOME SECRETAHY: He had a han. member for Burke that it was a bur letter which was written by the Rev .. \Vil glary on oa very big scale inced. (Laughter.) liam Asher, an e'angelist from the Umted There was very little likelihood of c.cape Statrs, who visrtcd Queensland, and who by means of ,wimming to the mainland. be wrote under elate 17th July. 1909, as cause the channels swarmed with sharks, fc.llows :- the waters were muddy, there was something "NIPPON Yc·sEN KArsru. like a mile of water through whieh .a man would have to swim, and there were other "s.s. 'Nikko lHaru.' En route to 11anilar dangers such as currents which the prisoner "17th July, 1909. would have to take into conside•ation if he "Caotain C. Penncfath.jr, desired to escape. Di.d their prison,.,·s de "~Co!nptroJl{~r~General of Prisons, sen"e that amount of con,idera.tion--th CLt '· Bri•,.bane, Australia. some attempt should be made by the State to reform them? If the' ac!.c:nitted that, then "My dfl:)"r Captain,-~t \vas Il?-~ in thry admitte-i that there >Yas no more suit tention to write conr"rnmg my vrsrt to able place than St. Helena for that particu St. Helena Prison before leaving Bris lar pur:Jose. That v·as not almw the \'im,· L ..me, but .I failed to 1o so for. t~e r~a taken by their own permmwnt head- in son mv tik_e tYa'3 ful1v oc'""lup::.ea vnth Queensland, but it was the view b.k<>n hy packing·, etr. ~ a numbe-r of other }1orsons 1Yho Yisited the ":\lv visit to St. HcJcna wne a de prison and ·who \V{' :e experts in pri-,on ro lio-htful surpris2. Before going I was forn1. .FurthermGr.e, the Comptroll,Br-G0ne !riYen to under.:~·and tl1at I might not ral of Prisons in ""ew South \Va'cs express8d find thino-s in verv goo.d shape. '\Vhy, r,,, following wish in connection '' ith St. I do not know. I haY•" nevrr found a Helena- better conrlitiJn of affairs anywhere. I " I wish we had in New South "\YoJes was given OVd'J opportunity to .go where an island like St. Helena for prison pur I wish cd. Governor Ryan mstructed poses.'' Chief Officer Bo\''den to sho\'J me every thin"'. I found the cellrooms absolutely The Hon. J. D. Connelly. l'olonial Secretar,y clea~. and Wf'U v-e-;.ltilatJd. It i~ true of ·we,tern AustraE<1, who Yi,itcd Queens that the cel1s are rather snNll, but 'Vhcn land reeently, mentioned that the administra one ren1.embt.::rs the; are used almost tion of prisons eame within his administra Q:llly for ·l-~eping purposes, it v·orks no tion, .and he expressed the desire to visit haTdship on lhe prison·?r. St. Helena. He gave him the opportunity, '' Goin~ through the wcrkshops, I and later on Mr. Connelly said that he was found th';,y were neat, tidy, and clean. Hon. J. G. Appel.] Supply. [ASSEMBLY] Supply. The ceilings are a go.od height, allowing useful you can make the lives of tJ:le plenty of good fresh air to circulate prisoners the better the results that will through the room. \Vith plenty of sun be obtained." light coming intD the different work Those were the opinions of a gentlema?- who rooms, Jt occurred t"' me it was a health had an intimate knowledge of the subJect, a ful phJc in which to wo.rk. gentleman who specially dealt with the par "I took particular note of the fact ticular matters which were brought forward that but two men were in the hospital. as a reason why this prison should be re These two men with ailments contracted moved; and those very reasons were the before coming to. St. Helena. No doubt reasons which he asserted were th~ ones the rea:;on for the ho.spital being prac which enabled reformation to be carried out tically empty is because of the good most effectively. Then there was a letter healthful condition of tho; priwners. from Mr. R. \V. H. Bligh, general secretary, This speaks well for the present manage Australasian White Cross League- ment. " St. Helena is the best prison _in Aus "I know of no prison where there is tralasia. The rich island lends Itself to .a better ~amtary arrangement. I could the agricultural ~ork beiJ?-g done by the not detect a bad smell anywhere. Not men. The Ayrshire herd IS equal to any ·even in the big sewer tank. Your night thing of its kind. As I watched tJ:le. "!'en cans are the most sanitary I have seen handling the catt~e for ~he ExhibitiOn • . anvwhere. As far as I can remember, it gave me the ImpressiOn one wou)d we' have nothing as good in America. receive on any stud farm. Those m "Governor Ryan impressed me as one charge are sympathetic men who under who understood his work thoroughly. stand human nature, and act accordmgly. Both he and JVIrs. Rvan were courteous I spoke to all the m_en, and_ the:~; re and ho,;pit them. At pre5ent the system was for a as it was at St. Helena. There would be a warder to be six v·eeks on duty, and then considerabl they_ had . to earn by their good conduct. hon. nwmber for South Brisbane asked him Durmg hrs t!ll·ee1 years' experience, he had ii any p~-:tit.ion had been received frpnl thee found the effect was wonc'.c rful, and this was wo,rders. He understood that a pet1tron had undo_ubtedly of the greatc ,t assistance in bt ~n r-t_,cei ved in connection ""'ith an exten helpmg the prisoner to resain his self-respect. sion of the principle of rent allowance. A :They were simply carrying into effect what orcviou:' petition 'vhich he had received had .had been recognised in all British communi been granccd, and warders of fifte~n years' ties as the best methods of r~-toring the standing were granted a rent allowance. The self-re,pect of those who had committed a whole matter was now under consideration, crime, and enabling them to go forth into ancl he had no doubt that if the funds were the world and '>lrn an honest livelihooc1. He available ewrything possible would be done was much intereSted in what fell from the to imnrove the position of those servants of han. member for ::Ylaranoa; t1K· quotation he the State, who were carrying out their dutie~ r~ad was no doubt aholutdy correct. He effectiv,]y. The han. m ... mber for l\1erthyr hrmS€lf had given letters to di,charged. pri spoke about "crook " warders. That stale soners who had shown that thev·werc worth;· mont '\"\as a sn:rprise to hi•n. HP 'vas per -of it by their conduct, whicl:l hacl enabled. oonally acquainted with the warders who then1 to g·ain positions in the State. They \YCTe in charge at the different prif'qns. and . did all they could to a ••sist them in tha't he ventured to say that the han. member respect. In sorn( cases, p1·isoners had had was under a misappreheHsion. ·to report thenlselv,.;s, but \vhere it would 11r. '\VELSBY: Not at all. prove a difficulty to the prison<>r to have to The HOME SECRETARY: It was a very ·go to the police station, thev allow~d him to serious charge to make, but he desired to simply drop a postcurd, s'o that it might siate that he, as the administrative head of not be kr;o:;;n that he was ': _released pri the department, had absolute faith in the ·.!;oner. W h11e they vvere stnv1ng to carry honesty and integritv of the men who were ·out these reforms, it was verv selfish indeed employed as p1·ison 'vardero. The han. mem that a weaithy section of 'the community ber for Buranda spoke about female warders. cJhould endeavour to injure their efforts b:; Ther were granted an increase on last year's ·trying to obtain that one little spot an>ongst EstiinatPs, and brought up to the same . so many spots-to take it awaY from them standard J.s those occupying similar positions when they wore doing such good work. elsewhere. Since then thev had made new Mr. HUXHAM: Couldn't you transfer part arrnngements, and dealt 'vith certain little of those at Boggo road down to St. Helena? matters which improved their conditions. With regard to male warders being in charge T~e.HOME SECRETARY: Every prisoner at night, he might say that was a very diffi .recervmg a sentence of over twelve months cult mattPr to deal with, and he W,!lS not went to St. Helena, but short-sentenced prepared at that moment to pxpress an .prisoners were conilned in Boggo Road Gaol. opinion upon it. However, it would receive Mr. HuxHAl'II: There is a school close to consideration, and he would go into the the gaol where capital punishment is carried matter with the Comptroller, because he ·out. recognised that it was very lone!,· for a female to have to keep watch and guard The HOME SECRETARY: It was im during the hours of night. The han. mem . possible to see that, because th '"'ost was £53 5s. 6d. That was an eminently Mr. FOR::\YTH (.1furrumba) would l!ke satisfactory position, and it "\Yas on" more the Home Secretary next year, m gettmg argument agccin"t the handing over of that up the statement oLf' -cxpenditnre in connec island to the :Moreton Bay Leagu<'. It re tion with prison,, more especially St .. Helena, flected the greatest credit on the Comptrol to have the figures separated. For n;stance, ler, and also on the superintendent, Mr. there was £5,952 down for salarH-, m con Ryan, who was an experienced officer and nection with St. Helena, and then, at the a man who hat1• proved his ability. Refer end the total amount of the general ex· ·ence was made to the fact that the1·e was P'"n~es of the prison" in Qucenclanc\ includ no increas• on the Estimates for the Comp ing Tov~ ~sville and Rockha1:upto.n G~ols) \Vas troller. It had been States, and they should also have one in Receiving Depot there was an increase of Queensland. He knew they got a wealth of £23 in salaries and £29 in contmgencies. For information from the Commonwealth Stati· the Townsville Orphanage there was an in. stician's "Year Book,'' and also from the crease of £65. At the Westbrook Reforma ·'A B C Statistics of Queensland," but that tory for boys, provision was made for a was not sufficient for the purposes for which warder gardener at £156. When it was de they required it in Queensland. The hon. cided by the Agricultural Department to member for Rockhampton had a.sked, on abandon operations at the 'vV est brook ·State several occ.csions, about the wealth produ0- Farm, the superintendent of the reformatory tion and the revenue and expenditure of the was anxious to obtain an increased area. Centml division, but was unable -to obtain it. This was done, and a warder gardener was They should get ail that information about appointed to attend to that particular part the three divisions of Queensland-::'\iorth, of what was now the reformatory. There Centr·P, .and South-because within the near was an increase of £12 to the senior warder, future it would be n00e,sary to subdivide and provision was made for an extra warder a StatG like Queensland, because it could not at £184. In connection with industnal be successfully governed from a corner like schooh there was .an increase of £80 for the BrisbanP as it was at present. He hoped institution at Riverview, £40 for Wooloowin, the Home Secretary would take the matter and £30 for Y eronga. All those institu into consideration. tions were paid so much per head for the Question put and passed. number of inmates. Mr. HUNTER: He was glad to see the good work being done by this branch of the STEAMER " OTTER." service. During the year he noticed that there were 3,359 children under supervision. The HOME SECRETARY moved that It was very gratifying to find that portion of £3,084 be granted for the steamer "Otter." the 'vV estbrook State Farm was now being There was .an increase in the vote of £5 used in connection with the reformatory, th. At the be brought up with a knowledge of country Diamantina Receiving Depot there was an life, and they would have 'a desire to share increase of £10 for the sub-matron and £10 in that work which they were all anxious to for the yardman. The accommodation at th<> promote in this State. Another very wise receiving depot had recently ·been increased~ statement was made in the report- and the institution was proving most effective. Children of tender age were taken " Personally, I am not in favour of and the best that could be done wa~ sending our girls to the outlying dis being done for them. There was an increase tricts." of £20 for victualling. For the Rockhampton Though he seemed to favour the idea of 1912-6 D Mr. Hunter.] 1954 Supply. [ASSEl\~BLY.} Supply. sending boys. Notwithstanding that, they th!.lm-but some natural mothers had to keep found that all the reports which were re their children at home to look after the ceived came from the teaching staffs in and smaller children while they went out to work. around Brisbane, with few C'KCeptions. There Children should be made to go to school, was an urgf)nt need for boys in agricultural unless there was a sound reason for keeping districts, and it would be a very good thing them at home. ·whilst a natural mother, in if room could not be found for them in the many instances, was placed at a disadvan Westbrook Reformatory, to endeavour, as far tage to the foster-mother, still, the per as possible, to place them elsewhere in agri centage with regard to school attendance cultural districts. It was a good thing for of children who were with their natural boys to learn trades, where they showed a mothers had been far too low. This applied disposition in that direction; but where that to cities to a larger extent than it did to was not so, an attempt should be made to other places. The hon. member for Maranoa find employment for them in the coull.try. talked about those who were hired out being He thought the report was very satisfactory, sent out from the town, and no doubt it was and that the money was well spent in seeing a good thing, but there was such a thing as that these boys and girls, who were unfor hiring them out too far away, where prac tunatdy left without parents, were trained so tically the inspector never saw them. that they might wo~thily take their places among the men and women of this State. Mr. BEBBINGTON : The department will not He asked the Minister if the same attention do it. was given to State children, with regard Mr. WINSTANLEY: The department has to dentistry and the inspection of their eyes done it. · and general physical condition, as was given Mr. BEBBINGTON: It must be a very ex to the State school children? ceptional case. Mr. BEBBI~GTON (Drayton) hme testi Mr. WINSTANLEY: There ought not to mony to the very good work the department be these exceptional cases. He believed that was doing for State children by putting the country was a much better place for these th<>•n out with country people. He had children than the city, as in the country had something to do with them for eight or they would be away from temptation, and ten years, and he knew the department were would probably learn something which would very particular where they sent the boys be very useful to them. In this report it and girls, especially the girls, which was was mentioned that two were hired out at quite right. In most of the families they Christmas Creek Station. The department went to, they lived just the same as the were supposed to know the character of members of the family they were with. Some those people anc'. the nature of the place, of them turned out very well. They could and he thought that, if they had made not expect them all to turn out well, because the neccs,;ary inquiries previous to hiring they had an i~:~clination to the life they out those boys, they would not have hired were taken from, and some of them seemed them out to those peoplP at Christmas Creek. to cling to their old habits almost right There was no inspector near the place. This through life. Wickedness seemed to be bred might be an exceptional case, but he thought in some boys; it did not matter how much it was one in which sufficient care had not you did for them, you did not seem to ba been exercised by the department. He was able to make much of them. Others turned glad to notice that the department secured. out splendidly. He knew one orphan who better remuneration for the boys and girls went out in the country, and to-day he was hired out than they used to receive a few one of the leading well-borers in the West; years ago, when they worked for very low another boy who was sent out was now one wages. He was glad to note that there was of the leading butchers on the Downs. An an increased vote for the industrial school at other good thing was, that the Government Riverview. Personally, he was of opinion made advances for children, where the hus that these institutions should be controlled band had had some misfortune, instead of by the State, but tho c1.epartment evidently placing them i~ an orphanage, so that their took a diffGTent view of the matter. It was mother could keep them together. Not a well-known fact that' this institution had long •ago, in his electorate, a man was de made certain improvements which were re prived· of his means of livelihood; he had quired by the department, and that .a pro seven children, and an allowance was made mise had been given by the Minister that a to the mother for each child, which enabled larger number of children would be sent to her to keep the family together. They were the institution. close to a school, and could get proper The Ho;m SECRETARY: It could not be education. kept. Mr. WINSTANLEY was sorry to find that Mr. WINSTANLEY: He thought the the inspector had not reported this year to promise could have been kept. He haC. been the same extent as he did last year. He said all over the place, and he believed it was that the condition of the children boarded "ut an exceptionally f!'OOd institution to which with their own mothers was still unsatis to send bovs. Thev could learn .a trade factory. Considerable discussion took place there, and they 1\'Ne' well f·d; the whole of on this aspect of the case last year, and the surroundings of the place were healthy, from what was said then, it was quite clear and the man in charg-e was a very fine type that many of these natural mothe~s, who of man, so that in him the boys would have were stated to be inferior to the foster a very good example. He thought the de :rnothPrs. bf'lono-f'cl to tlv-" Rnnthw'n nrort of the partment were doing good work in looking State, where they could be wf'll looked after. after children who. in some instances, were The attendance at school of children who bereft of their parents, and, in other in were with their natural mothers was very stances, had parents who were not fond much lower than it was with those who were enough of them to look after them properly. foster-mothers. Foster-mothers had no op The monev expended in feeding, clothing, tion-they must send the children to school, anc1• caring for those children was money ex or else they would haye them taken: from ceptionally well spent. [.Mr. Ihtnter. Supply. [24 OcTOBER.] Supply. 1955 T~e HO::.VI_E SECRETARY: With regard accommodation, certain oodding, and cm·tam to tne I~qm_ry _as to '·'hat rates were paid c:othes, which have to be exhib;ced to tho . to thc"e mstitutwns, he might state that the inspector 1vhen he goes on his visit. rate paid to Clayfield was 7s. per week per Mr. KIRWAN: If the position w<'ts such head, Kudgee 7s. per \\eek, and Riverview that it had been found nec-essarY to call ,at 8s. per week. , The promise referred to by tention to it in 1nore than on~ report, ru the han. memoer as m.ade and the last called for some special regulations. If those mentioned institution got 1s. 'per head. extra unfortunate chil·dren were not taken care owing to tho fact that the department could of, and vv~~re not rceeivi:ng the ncceso;;ary not send thum beyond a cnrtain number of education m d training to lit them for tho children, and the cost per head was so much strugg~e of life-if tho State wei-e unfortun more w1th tho smaller number. \Vooloowin ate enough to posse&t~ parents \vho were not was paid 7s. per week per head, and Ye alive to th<:>ir responsibilities to those who ronga &-.. )Yr week per heac1•. For the in were n<'a.r-est and dearest to them, the de formation of the hen. member for :Maranoa partment would be justified in stepping in he migh~ ~tate that there ;··as only one boy and making regulations to compel those employee. m Bnsbane, ana he was ·with a mothers to do their duty by their own chil friend of his learning a trade. The bov dren. \Yith r-egard to giving an opportunity had an aptitude for the ,addlery trade, and to learn a particular trade to boys who had 1t was therefore arranged to put him with an aptitude or d.esire for such trade, that was that friend. The ro.se the bon. member had a good innovation. While they all recog quoted from page 13 of the report w11s con nised that country life was desirable, they nected with the children in the Rockhamp were aha compelled to recognise that there ton district. The reports roferreJ to were were como youths who had an aptitude for tho reports of head teachers, who were good mechanical or artisan work, and it would be enoug~ to submit to the department reports a pity if those boys wore not given the on children who wore in charge of foster chance of qualifying for that particular call mothers. They "\vere not reports in connec ing in life. As one who had had some little tion with children who were hir<>d out, al dealing with this department, hB might say though head teachers did furnish reports that the officials were actuated with on-e with regarc:. to children who were hired out desire, and that 'Was to do t·he best possible in different par!f, of the State somewhat be- for the children entrusted to their care. Of , yond the scope of the inspector. Tho object coursB, some people complained that the of the department in not l·•tting the chil Director, and those connected with him, wore . dren go too far away was that the inspectors pretty strict. Those gentlemen recognised should have an opportunity of visiting them that there were times when it was necessary and seeing that they were treated properly: t was that they were the people who wa.nted careful consideration, and that hB would at to take children from their mothers and put least make the same allowance to naturaL them in big institutions. mothers that was made to foster-mothers. The HOME SECRETARY: The department dis If necessary, a regulation could be framed. C ~mothers; and, under the circumstances, it The HOME SECRETARY: It enables the was not fair to institute comparisons with local authorities to see what leases are for• regard to the attendance of the children at feited . .Jay school and at Sunday school, or with .regard to their general health and conduct. Mr. HUNTE.R was glad that the amour.ts He strongly emphasised his disbelief that a voted for the destruction of prickly pear foster-mother was superior to a natural would not be restricted to £5,000. Why, one mother or was kinder to a child. He would shire council would want £5,000 to its own .admit that, owing to her financial position, cheek. The amount that would be wanted .a natural mother might not be able to exer would be nearer £50 000. In some cases the cise the same care, but the department alone money would be well spent, but in other in was responsible for that; and. while the State stances it wouid be only a wa~te of mon~y to discriminated as it was doing, he failed to see spend it. They had dealt with the prwkly .how it was justified in making a comparison pear question in the Bill the other day, and they would have other opportunities of deal ~between the two classes of mothers. The Minister should certainly pay the same rate ing with it. to the natural mother as was paid to the Mr. GRAYSON (Cunningham) was pleased .foster-mother, and then he could judge the to hear that the amount to subsidise .results by that experiment. It was only shire councils for the destruction of prickly right that the same provision should be laid pear would not be restricted to £5,000. He .down in each case. If the foster-mother had knew one shire council on the Downs that to spend a certain amount of money in cloth spent over £5,000 in the dest.ruction of ing the child, then the same provision should prickly pear, and put on a spemal rate of be made to apply to the natural mother. If .,\d. in the .£1 to raise the money. ;He knew that were done, they would not have the three shire councils that were spendmg large slur cast upon the natural mothers of Queens sums of money in eradicating prickly pear land that was constantly being done by the from the roads. He thought that they would Director in his report. It was no credit to want fully £50,000. Every encouragement the State to talk in that way of the natural should be given to shir~ councils to. pass a mothers of Queensland. It was an unwar special rate with the VIew of clearmg the ranted statement, and they should not desire roads and reserves from prickly pear. No 'to perpetuate it. State money could be spent to a better pur The bell indicated that the hon. member's pose. time had expired. Question put and passed. 'Question put and passed. ~IISCELLANEOUS SERVICES (SUBDIVISION). DEPART~IENT OF PUBLIC \VORKS. The HOME SECRETARY moved that £14,850 be granted for " Miscellaneous Ser DEPARTMENT. vices (Subdivision)." There was a decrease The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS of £4,350 in the vote. There was a decrease (Han. \V. H. Barnes, Bulimba) moved that bv £5,000 in connection with the appropria £21 386 be granted for salaries for the J?e t!on for the destruction of prickly pear, but, partment of Public \Vorks. This was an m as he had explained before, he had made crease over the vote of last year of £2,250. the necessary provision that the local authori A new quantity surveyor had been ap12ointed ties undertakin!l" the destruction of priear the ;J.mount put down was £8,000. Hon. .the small selectors than on the large lessees. iitembfo'n would readily understand that soma Hon. W. H. Barnes.] 1958 Suppiy. LAS5EMBLY.] Supply. of these items could scarcely be compared line. The most serious complaint he had to• from year to year, by reason o£ varying con make was in connectio~ with the meagre ditions. amount allowed for school buildings. lVIr. HuNTER: There are three sums put Mr. BEBBINGTON: The amount down down for the University. for school buildings was very small indeed. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: The SECRET_'llY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: £65,000 The hon. member "as quite right. Bec,id~s altogether. the amount put down for equipment, there Mr. BEBBINGTON: When he applied to· was £1,500 for common rooms for students, the departmeut some months ago, they told and £2,000 for a building for the biology him they were £50,000 behind on last year department. The "Gniversity being in its for school buildings, and that they wanted infancy, \Vonld from· tjme to ,~time den1and £50,000 again this year, which would make additional exp0nditure. Th,2 amount of £100,000. He did not know how they fared £5,000 for the Central Technical College was in the town, but they were close to the de a rc-vote; and he thought it was expendi· partment, and as a rule got the .money ture which would meet with the approval of without difficulty. He knew that m. the the Committee. country districts, when it got to the middle of the year, there was no mon<;Y for schools, 1\Ir. GRANT (Fihroy): In glancing as it had all been spent so quwkly. There through the Estimate, he thought the Go. were thirty-two schools in his electorate, vernment had made a mistake in regard to and they wanted the schools in the country school buildings. When he left the office brought up to something like the st.anda.rd there was about £50,000 worth of urgent of those in the city. There was a Umversity work which should have been gone on with, in the city, but they could not take . adv':n but which was deferred because there were tage of it in the country. A Umversity no funds. In ad::!ition, there would be a education was not essential for anyone who big ama:unt of extra work in repairs; and was going farming, but a high school ed:>ca at least £100,000 should have been put down tion was necessary. They had every right for school buildings. Altogether, ther<: was to be proud of the hon. member for Fitz only £65,000 from revenue and loan; and roy, who had occupied the position .of .Secr!l the whole amow1t wouldl be taken up in tary for Public Instruction, for brmgmg m practicaliy paying for work passed last year, the high schools, aqd distributing the teachers and there WOclld be no mo.ney provided for amongst the people. That would absorb !1· coming works. A number of people hesi lot of money and the amount on the Esti tated to go out into the country unlevs pro mates was dot a bit more than would be 'Vision could be made for the education o.f wanted on the Darling Downs. He ~oped their children, and this was a vote that there would be a Supplementary Es~rma~e should not be cut down. He hoped the Go brought down. There was another thmg m v~rnment would see their way to put enough connection with hospital buildiugs. The money on the Supplementary Estimates so Home Secretary had promised on nexp year's that the vote every year would pay for that Estimates to provide his own ho~prtal for year's work. He need not tell the Commit prisoners, and for people suffermg from tee how necessary it was to provide school delirium tremens. (Laughter.) Jf a per building~. In regard to the University, he son was injured, he didn't like to be alo!'g fait doubtful as to how the Treasurer was going to meet the amount for equipment, side a prisoner with a policeman guardmg because he knew that o;rders had been placed him. Another thing, they got people who for nearly double the £8,000 put down. The were taking too much, and did not seem to University, in the opinion of some people, be able to control themselves. was costing far more than it should cost; The CHAIRMAN: OrdeJ: ! hut to establisl1 a University on such a foot ing that they need not be ashamed of it Mr. BEBBINGTON: He hoped the hon. the cost was sure to be heavy. In the opinion gentleman would remember to put the of experts, the laboratory was one of the amount on the Estimates next year. best equipped, furnished, and set-out to be Mr. McCORMACK: He was glacl. to hear found anywhere; and in Professor Steele the hon. member for Fitzroy voice the Queensland had one o.f the best chemists in question of schools, which was a very im the world. The engineering department re portant one to outlyir:g district.s. In North quired to be up to date; and Professor Gib Queensland the questwn of pnmary educa son was sent home specially to select tion was of the greatest importance. He machinery. He got great concessions from believed in a boy having the chance to go the manufacturers; and the c<>st of sending to the University, but the first dut;v was to him home was a mere bagatelle compared to train our children to read and write. He ihe reductions he obtained. There was an would have liked to have seen £100,000 on othllr matter which he wished to refer to. the Estimate, for State schools. He noticed they were building a new maga zine at Bajool, and not before it was wanted. Mr. GRANT: £20,000 could be spent in He would like to ask the Minister Brisbane alone on schools that are urgeqtly [9.30 p.m.] whether it wa8 advisable to fol- wanted. low the co.urse which had been Mr. McCORMACK : Extensions were also adopted on the North Coast line? It was 1vanted in most of the coastal towns. He rather a serious menace to the public that thought some other expend.iture might be the magazine on the North Coast line was curtailed and the monev devoted to State so close to the railway. These magazines schools. He had a griev!tnc-- to bring under should be •orne considerable distance from the notice of the MinistN in conne? the line. A spark from the engine might tion with the courthoucce at Cairns. Tlm< cause an explosion, and consequent danger question had been brought up on previous to life and property. The magazine at o· oasions when the E'timat0s came befo~e Bajool should not be so close to the line the House. The building that was used Ill as that at Dakabin, on the North Coast Cairns was a disgrace to the Government, SOc [Han. W. H. Barnes. Supply. Bupplp. 1959 much so that they would probably have a \Vindorah, which was an out-of-the-way strike of jurors during the approaching place, he discovered, when he was t~ere re summer. Everybody knew how hot the cently, that there had been a cyc,one or place was in summer. The Ron. the Min something of the sort, and. that it had blown ister himself was in Cairns, and no doubt down the buildings, so that children of both knew all about the matter. He might men sexes had to use the one closet. tion that the \Vorks Department had re moved an oh1 police building, and re-erected Mr. GRANT: That has been fixed up. it in the most prominent position in Cairns Mr. COYNE: It had not been fixed Ill' as a Government Savings Bank. If it had 'When he applied to have it fixed up he was been erected by a private individual, the told that there was no money available to building would be condemned under the by. effect the necesJary repairs. The building laws and regulations of the Cairns Town was going to ruin for want of a co,,t or .two Council. He had complained to the depart of paint, and there were some other httle ment about this, but the answer given was improvements required. A snm of £30 was that the manager of the bank had visited now going to be spent on the bmldm!'l', but Cairns, and recommended this course to be that would not be sufficient to patch rt up. taken. In Mount Morgan there wae a The building was in an open plain, exp'?scd splendid building for Savings Bank pur to a blazing sun and all sorts of v:eatner, poses, and he held that Cairns was as and it should be rememb<,red that m such important as Mount Morgan, and should a locality a building wouid not last the have had a respectable building. Everyone length of time, it would. in a more temperate had complained about it, and it was a mat climate. The Government should place a ter which would operate against the little more mQney at the disposal of tl,:e E?u State Bank as compared with the Common cation Department for tho purpose o, bmld wealth Bank. Another matter which he ing and repairing schools. Certain!~-, .it was wished to refer to was the architecture of very unwise to allow a school .bmld1;ng to some of the Government buildings. The O'et into a hopeless state of d1srepa1r for work put into the buildh~gs was good, and ~ant of a couple of coats of paint, and he yet the buildings were an eyesore to anyone hoped that the sugge,tions h.e hac! made who had any eye for architecture. He thought would. receive favourable cons1deratwn. the Minister would be wise if he suggested Mr. MORGAN: Looking at the figures in to the Government Architect that a building connection with school buildings, he found pleasing to the eye would be just as useful that altogether the Government had set aside and provide as good accommodation as some £10 000 more this year than last year. The of the buildings which were now erected. He amo'unt set down for school buildings in the noted with pleasure that a sum of £1,400 Estimates for the Department of Public was set down for the Townsville Orphanage. Works last year was £35,000, and this year The quarters there were not nearly ade it was £40,000, an increase of £5,000. If they quate for the number of children sent to looked at the amount expended from the the institution, and he was pleased to see loan fund for new school buildings last year that the Government had made this pro thev would find that £20,000 was set aside, vision on the Estimates. and this year £25,000 was put down, so that Mr. PETRIE (Toombul) : The amount for school buildinO's the Government had set down for school buildings, improvements, placed on th<' Estimates altogether £10,000 furniture, repairs, and. painting was £40,000, more this year than they did last ye3ar. The but he understood that on the Loan Estimates late Secretarv for Public Instruction ex there was an ad.ditional £25,000 for the same plained that ·it would take something like purposes. The Government had done good £100,000 to do all the work neces, Mr. HUNTER: Well, Consuela was not LIEUT.-COLONEL RANKIN: That alteration in his electorate, and there would be no had not r METROPOLITAN WATER AND SEWER AGE ACT AMENDMENT BILL. RETURNED FROM CouNCIL. The SPEAKER announced the receipt of a message from the Legislative Council re turning this Bill without amendment. COMMONWEALTH DEPOSIT BILL. RETURNED FRmi COUNCIL. The SPEAKER announced the receipt of a message from the Legislative Council re turning this Bill without amendment. FRUIT CASES BILL. MESSAGE FROM COUNCIL. The SPEAKER announced the receipt of a message from the Legislative Council re turning this Bill with amendments, in which they invited the concurrence of the Legis lative Assembly. The consideration in Committee of the Legislative Council's amendments was made an Order of the Day for to-monow. INDUSTRIAL PEACE BILL. MESSAGE FROM COUNCIL. The SPEAKER announced the receipt of a message from the Legislative Council re turning this Bill with amendments, in which they invited the concurrence of the Legis lative Assembly. The considerafon in Committee of the Le[;'islative Council's amendments was mad.:; an Order of the Day for to-morrow. RESTORATION OF STATE PATENTS BILL. FIRST READING. On the motion of the TREASURER, this Bill, received by message from the Legis lative Council, was read a first time, and the second reading was made an Order of the Day for to-morrow. The House adjourned at twenty-five minutes to 11 o'clock. rHon. W. H. Barneg.