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London Assembly Appendix 1 Police and Crime Committee – 1 November 2017 Transcript of Agenda Item 6: Women Offenders in London Steve O’Connell AM (Chairman): That takes us to the main part of the morning, which is the subject of women offenders in London. This Committee, as I say, is embarking on a thematic piece of work around this and this is the first part of our investigations. To set the scene around it, clearly, although women make up a small amount of the overall number of offenders, they are a distinct group with very specific needs in relation to offending and rehabilitation. It is great that you have come along today to assist us in that work. The issues we will be picking out in our questions will include very much the Corston Report [The Rt Hon Baroness Jean Corston, 2007] and the closure of [HM Prison] Holloway. Importantly, our work here is reflecting upon the Mayor’s work in this area and you will know that the Police and Crime Plan specifically refers to women offenders - and the Mayor has already committed an amount of money towards that - and a new female offender service. We will be talking about that later. The first question, if I may, is largely, really, to scene set. I have referred to the Corston Report, which was ten years ago, in essence, and I would like you all if you could on this particular instance - in relatively succinct terms because we will investigate it more thoroughly later - to reflect upon that it has been ten years since the report calling for a distinct and separate - distinct more than separate, I would say - approach to women offending. Broadly speaking, how much better or worse is the situation for women in the criminal justice system today? If you would all like to comment, I will just go along [the line]. Please signal if you would like to go first. What you could do, would you kindly introduce just yourself and your organisation? That would be quite helpful when you make this response. Jenny Earle (Programme Director, Reducing Women’s Imprisonment, Prison Reform Trust): OK. I am Jenny Earle. I am the Programme Director for Reducing Women’s Imprisonment at the Prison Reform Trust, which is a small United Kingdom (UK) wide charity dedicated to reducing the number of people sent to prison unnecessarily and improving the conditions of prison for those who must be there. For the last four years, we have had a programme dedicated to tackling the problems facing women in the criminal justice system with the objective of reducing the number of women who end up in prison. The Corston Report is a very important landmark report and blueprint for progress and improvements in the criminal justice system. Has the situation improved since then? I would say overall not very much. Indeed, in the last year or two, we have seen record numbers of women dying in prison and that was one of the problems for the Corston Report; the high number of women’s deaths in prison. That has spiked again very recently. There are very high rates of self-harm amongst women in prison and generally a growing evidence base of the damage done to women. We have not seen the implementation of the Corston approach for a more community-based response to women’s offending. We are still seeing large numbers of women - too many vulnerable women - drawn into the criminal justice system because of a failure to meet their needs in the community. I suppose the overall conclusion of the Corston Report was that most of the solutions to women’s offending do not lie in prison; 1 they lie in the community. We need a much stronger emphasis on women’s specific solutions in the community and there is still a long way to go before we have achieved that. Dr Kate Paradine (Chief Executive, Women in Prison): I am Kate Paradine from Women in Prison. We provide three women’s centres across the country in Woking, Manchester and Lambeth, the Beth Centre, but also services in prisons in different parts of the country. We are also leading a campaign to reduce the prison population of women from about 4,000 at the moment to 2,020 or under by 2020. Our role as well is about amplifying the voices of women affected by the criminal justice system, which are often missed out from these kinds of discussions. I will not say very much more than Jenny has, but we did publish a brief report, The Corston Report: Ten Years On, which Women in Prison produced. Really, the progress has been woeful in those ten years and we have certainly taken steps back in terms of funding women’s services. That is the only thing I would add to what Jenny has said: that in terms of funding and developing a network of women’s centres, the position is pathetic, given that we have had ten years to make progress. In London in particular, things are really pretty bad compared to other big cities, including the likes of Manchester. Advance is here; we have the Beth Centre; there is Hibiscus, which runs a women’s centre and other centres like, in Barking and Dagenham, Huggett. However, in terms of a focus on women affected by the criminal justice system, there really is a desperate need for development. Steve O’Connell AM (Chairman): Kate, thank you. We will be drilling down later on what we can ask the Mayor to do in the London context and the shortfalls and shortcomings. Niki? Niki Scordi (Chief Executive, Advance): My name is Niki Scordi. I am the Chief Executive of Advance. Advance has been working with women in the criminal justice system for over 20 years now and particularly female offenders for about ten years. We run a programme, among others, called Minerva and it is partly funded by the Mayor’s Office for Policing and Crime. I would echo what Kate and Jenny said: that services have been slow to start, very poorly funded, inconsistently funded and, therefore, it makes it challenging to build on them and embed them in the system. They are fairly short-term and so we begin to make progress and then we have to go back and start again. We are not given enough time for the results really to take effect and, therefore, to build on the developments. We are talking about things like diversion and women’s centres again. I would say in London, compared to Manchester, we have two full specific female offender centres, one in west London, which is Minerva for Advance, and one in south London. There is nothing in north London or east London at all. There are domestic violence and other types of centres, but specialist female offender services are limited. The only other point I would add is that the structural issues remain and that causes a real challenge to support those women, including things like housing, obviously, as you can imagine, and a whole load of other services, which I am sure we will explore as we go as well. It is a challenge. Steve O’Connell AM (Chairman): Thank you. You mentioned Manchester. We will be talking about comparables with London and Manchester. Melanie, did you want to add to that? Melanie Sheehan (Director for Female Offender Services, Advance): Yes. I am Melanie from Advance and I head up the Minerva service, which is the service for female offenders that Niki was just referring to. 2 I would echo everybody on the panel. Progress has been slow, but I do feel like we are making progress. Events like this really highlight the needs of female offenders and that is coming up on the agenda. I have been working in criminal justice for about 15 years and in the last maybe six, seven or eight years with female offenders specifically, and we have been campaigning for a long time for the issue to be on the agenda. I feel it is now and this is a great start. We have implemented all Corston’s recommendations in the Minerva service but, like everybody has said, there are not enough organisations doing the same thing. That is where I am hoping this will lead. Steve O’Connell AM (Chairman): Thank you for sending the details of the Minerva service to us. That has done it is best to implement the recommendations as stated in Corston. Thank you very much. Helga? Helga Swidenbank (Director of Probation, London Community Rehabilitation Company): Good morning. I am Helga Swidenbank from the London Community Rehabilitation Company (CRC). We provide services to 31 service users across all London boroughs including 4,000 women. I had a previous life as a junior governor grade at Holloway - and so I have worked in [HM Prison] Holloway - and also a previous life as the Director at HM Prison Bronzefield. Therefore, I have a sense of what is going on in custody as well as what is going on in the community. On the question on how far we moved since Corston, I would echo all the comments made by my colleagues on the panel: not very far. Probably the one notable success with my former custodial hat on is end of strip-searching in custody, which has made a huge impact on the lives of women entering into custody, many of whom are traumatised before coming in. However, there has been very little investment in what is going on in the community across the board.
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