Report of Proceedings of House of Keys
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.1 (by Authority) by CORRIE Ltd., 48 Bucks Road, Douglas, Isle of Man. REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS OF HOUSE OF KEYS DOUGLAS, Tuesday, 8th November, 1988 at 10.30 a.m. Present: The Speaker (the Hon. Sir Charles Kerruish, O.B.E.)(Garff); Hon. A.R. Bell and Brig. N.A. Butler, C. B. E. (Ramsey); Mr. R.E. Quine (Ayre); Hon. J.D.Q. Cannan (Michacl); Mrs. H. Hannan (Peel); Mr. W.A. Gilbey (Gienfaba); Mr. D. North (Middle): Messrs. P. Karran, R.C. Leventhorpe and L.R. Cretney (Onchan); Hon. B. May and Mrs. J. Delaney (Douglas North); Messrs. A.C. Duggan and D.C. Cretney (Douglas South); Hon. D.F.K. Delaney and Mr. P.W. Kermode (Douglas East): Mr. J.C. Cain and Hon. G.V.H. Kneale (Douglas West); Hon. J.A. Brown (Castletown); Hon. D.J. Gelling (Malew and Santon); Hon. M.R. Walker, Dr. J.R. Orme and Mr. J. Corrin (Rushen); with Prof. T. St.J. N. Bates, Secretary of the House. The Chaplain took the prayers. WELCOME TO FRENCH VISITORS The Speaker: Hon. members, it is a pleasure to welcome to our Gallery this morning three young visitors from France who are here studying Manx affairs, and we hope their visit will prove a happy one. Members: Hear, hear. STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE - ESTABLISHMENT OF A JOINT COMMITTEE OF TYNWALD- APPROVED The Speaker: First on the Agenda, hon. members, I call upon the hon. member for Glenfaba, Mr. Gilbey. Mr. Gilbey: Mr. Speaker, amongst the recommendations of the report of the Select Committee of Tynwald on Ballacarmel Cottages, it was on page 69 of that report, recommendation number 7 .2, we suggested that appropriate action be taken , to constitute a Standing Order Committee of the Council and the Keys, a joint ' Welcome to French Visitors Standing Orders Committee - Establishment of a Joint Committee of Tynwald -Approved K72 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 8th NOVEMBER 1988 committee in l\CCordance with Standing Order 119 of Tynwald to draw u appropriate guidelines for members where there is a conflict between private ana public interests. Now this recommendation was passed unanimously in another place. In view of that, I do not think there is any need for me to make a detailed speech about it; I am sure that everyone will understand the purpose of the recommendation. However, I am advised by the learned Secretary and the Assistant Clerk of Tynwald that if one just left the recommendation as having been approved by another place, nothing would happen, and therefore it is necessary to move, and hopefully have passed, the resolution standing in my name on the Order Paper, and it is solely for that.purpose that this resolution is on the Order Paper in order that the action approved in principle in another place can be put into effect. I beg to move. Brig. Butler: Mr. Speaker, I beg to second and reserve my remarks. The Speaker: Does any hon. member wish to speak to the resolution? If not, I will put the question to the House. Those in favour of the resolution standing in the name of the hon. member for Glenfaba, item number 1 on the Agenda, please say aye, against no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. A BILL CONCERNING DRIVING AFTER THE CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL OR DRUGS - LEAVE TO INTRODUCE GRANTED The Speaker: Item 2, the hon. member for Onchan, Mr. Karran. Mr. Karran: Mr. Speaker. I seek to introduce a Bill to make new provisions in respect of persons driving or being in charge of motor vehicles after consuming alcohol or drugs. After the defeat of the Road Traffic Bill, many hon. members in this hon. House said they would have preferred to have seen the Bill in separate Bills. Now I have separated these Bills so I hope that hon. members will support leave to introduce this Bill. Mr. Gilbey: Mr. Speaker, I must say I shall certainly vote against these proposals to introduce all these Bills for a very simple reason: I admire my hon. friend's tenacity in going on and on like a dog after a bone. However, one must remember that all ·the proposals covered by these Bills were defeated in this hon. House within the current calendar year - indeed earlier this summer - and it seems to me that is is wrong that things keep coming back when we have a great deal of other business to attend to. This will delay more important matters. I think there is the further point that to devise these relatively simple things into no less than six different Bills is taking up an unnecessary amount of time of this hon. House because they will each have to have a first reading, a second reading a clauses and a third reading. The Speaker: I take it, sir, you are speaking to item number 2 on the Agenda? Mr. Gilbey: I am indeed, speaking to that one and any similiar ones that might come in the future. A Bill Concerning Driving After the Consumption of Alcohol or Drugs - Leave to Introduce Granted HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 8th NOVEMBER 1988 K73 fhe Speaker: Well, I would rule you out of order if you are speaking to the Aher proposals. Mr. Gilbey: Well, I will speak to the first one, Mr. Speaker, but I think my remarks are clear to hon. members of this House, and for the reasons that I have said, I shall certainly vote against this leave to introduce, although I admire the hon. member for his tenacity. Mr. Delaney: I hope the House will support the hon. member's move, not that I will be supporting the majority of what is down here, Mr. Speaker, but the member has the right; that is what he was sent here for, that is what we were all sent here for, and I hope that members will give the member the opportunity to lay down those points he wishes to raise in this hon. House into legislation, given that opportunity, and then we will all see what parts we can support and what parts we cannot support. Dr. Orme: Mr. Speaker, given the considerable amount of effort on a number of persons who are going to be involved in this process, could the proposer suggest if he has any new evidence to present to this Court in comparison with the evidence that he presented to support his arguments on the last occasion? Mr. Kermode: Mr. Speaker, the first speaker placed great store on the fact of the importance of legislation that is coming before this hon. Court. Whereas I will be supporting the member to introduce this particular Bill and subsequent Bills, could you clarify to this Court, Mr. Speaker - you yourself give the authority for these Bills to come into this hon. Court, or is there other directions that ask you to put these Bills at a certain time? And could you not give this Court the assurance that the more important legislation will not be out-done by this? The Speaker: The hon. member is posing a question as to which might be the most important legislation coming before the House. It could be a great division of opinion as to what is important and what is not. The hon. member, I am sure. is presenting this measure regards his proposals as important. Government measures equally might be regarded as important. I think at the time of consideration the Chair will hear representations from any member as to whether a particular measure should be given priority. The hon. member for Peel. Mrs. Hannan: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of the introduction of this Bill because I do not believe any one of us would like to see people driving after consuming alcohol or taking drugs, and therefore I think it is important that this Bill is allowed to go on because of the important nature of this legislation. Mr. Walker: Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the principle, really, mentioned by the hon. member Mr. Delaney, when he said it is a members right to introduce, and I think this House should give the hon. member leave to introduce the legislation. So be it. A number of these measures, certainly as far as I know at this stage, I am not prepared to go along with, and I think it would be useful, Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member, when he is summing up or introducing perhaps the other A Bill Concerning Driving After the Consumption of Alcohol or Drugs - Leave to Introduce Granted K74 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 8th NOVEMBER 1988 resolution in hi~ name, could give us just a little idea of how he intends to chan, the law from what is the existing. I think it would be useful for us and for the publi, through the Press. Mr. Karran: Mr. Speaker, I would say that when we talk about priorities in this House, to my good friend in East Douglas, that if your child has been killed by a drunk driver, you would give priority to a breathalyser Bill. I would say that as far as the new evidence is concerned in this House, there is evidence being compiled that is new. The thing is that the overall weight of the evidence proves that these things help to prevent deaths on our roads and are an answer to saving unnecessary injuries. I thank my good friend, the member for Glenfaba, for his usual support on these things, and I would say to the Chief Minister that this Bill, hon.