Nanny Theresa Young Interviewed by Bob Lewis November 2, 2003 Location: Ms. Young’s home 1 hours, 35 minutes and 21 seconds Logged by Tania Jordon
CD 1 of 2 (Tape 1, side 1)
Track 1
0:00 Introduction
0:55 Born 1921 in Leonardtown, MD. Parents are Jane Francis and Frank Swales. Youngest of 19 children. Two sisters living are Harriett Forrest and Eleanor Butler.
2:28 Grandmother was a slave on the Blackistone Plantation at the current location of the St. Mary’s Academy. Grandmother had brothers and her mother was Clara. Her mistress was from Charles County. Grandmother had to tend to the cows all day. Mother was watched by one slave lady who took care of all the slave children. Grandmother got married left and worked for Quakers in Pittsburgh. Mother was born in Pittsburgh. Mother was christened in Baltimore in a Catholic Church. Grandmother died when she was 91. She was gentle and loving. She never learned to read or write. Wanted her children to go to school. Slept in one room shack of slave quarters with dirt floor. Grandmother used oyster shells for eating utensils. One-room schools.
Track 2
8:29 Mother married young because she wanted her own home. Her sisters went to the city to work. Brother fought in WWI. Grandmother’s brothers fought in the Civil War and never returned to the County. They went to Ohio.
9:15 Her life was spent in the heart of Leonardtown. Remembers segregation but doesn’t hold on to the pass. Look forward to making it better for yourself and whoever is coming behind you. Get educated and do your best.
Track 3
12:52 Mother always told her that just because somebody called you out of you name, you don’t have to be that name. You can rise above that and become a better person. I instill these same values to my grandchildren.
14:52 Grandfather: Mother never knew her father. She remembers her mother and lady who raised the slave children.
Track 4
16:15 Mother: Born in Pittsburgh. Her father was James Francis Mack Williams. Hard working and help neighbors. Always believed in achieving. Ran a black hotel in Leonardtown behind Bell Motor Company. Kind and gentle. Sewed and played piano. Active in community organizations. Was registered to vote. St. Aloysius Beneficial Society was started in her house.
20:05 Hotel: Mother rented hotel and rented rooms to locals, school teachers and salesman.
Track 5
21:37 School: St. Aloysius Beneficial Hall had a one-room school house for 1st through 3rd grade on the back of building. One-room school for 4th through 6th or 7th grade was across from St. Aloysius Cemetery. There were no high schools for black children at that time. You had to go to the city to finish your education. High school came after black organization with Mr. Bunton Thompson, Mr. John Shelton, Mr. Herbert Blackstone, and other members mortgaged their homes to buy the land for Benjamin Banneker. They cut the lumber and had it milled to build the first two-room Banneker. In order for it to become a certified high school, it had to be given to the Board of Education. This was the first black high school in St. Mary’s County. Ms. Taliaferro was one of the first teachers from Morgan State.
CD 1 of 2 (Tape 1, side 2)
Track 6
28:19 Steamboats: Steamboats and floating theaters would come to the Leonardtown Wharf when I was a very young child. Tobacco was transported to Baltimore via steamboat. Adams family bought floating theater to Leonardtown. They would float theater up and down the Mississippi River until season was over and then come to Leonardtown at the end of the season. Mr. Johnson had a store on the wharf.
Track 7
33:10 There was an A&P store in the location of the First National Bank in Leonardtown. Most items were canned. No fresh meat because there was no refrigeration. Most people had kerosene lamps and very few had electric or an ice box. There was in ice house on Leonardtown Wharf. Cook and ironed on a wooded stove.
37:42 Hotel: Catered to traveling salesman, homeless, people who were traveling, people who got on the wrong bus and circus people.
Track 8
42:00 Steamboats would leave Leonardtown and go to Medleys Neck and then to St. Mary’s City. Loved her childhood.
44:40 Stuff Ham was created during slavery or just after. Slaves were given certain parts of the ham and they stuffed them. Mr. Aloysius King’s mother was one of the first people to stuff ham.
Track 9
49:51 Lived and stayed at hotel. Some of her siblings grew up and moved to Washington, DC.
51:00 Work for Citizen for Progress. Was founded by Dr. Brandywine, Edna Hall and Mamie Young. Helped start housing projects (Oakville and Norris Road) and other organizations
Track 10
53:53 Prejudice: Heard her mother talking about people being hung. Ben Hanson was hung in Compton because he helped a white girl walking through the woods carry a bucket over a fence. The women said that he helped her but they hung him anyway. The next time the black men got together to prevent someone else from getting hung. Another man was falsely accused of killing a white man and served life in prison. The real murder was a white man who confessed it on his death bed. The black man had died in prison by this time.
CD 2 of 2 (Tape 2, side 1)
Track 01
58:02 Family: Oldest daughter is Alice Swales (not her husband’s child) work for Giant Food for 30 years. James moved to Washington, married and works for the District Government. Daughter Francis works for Prince Georges County Government. Maxine works for the Martin Luther King Library in Washington, DC. George worked for federal government and moved to Indiana then to California. Bertha didn’t finish high school and bought a trailer in Lexington Park. Marilyn works for Navy Investigative Service. Barbara died when she was 31. Husband died when Barbara was 10 years old. Bought land when her mother died.
Track 02
1:07:35 Mr. Young lived in Leonardtown. He had a hard childhood. Went to junior high and high school in Washington. He was a hardworking man. Work in a print shop for Frank Guy. Printed articles, magazines and yearbooks. Was drafted in WWII for two years. Went to work at Navy base in the transportation department until he died. Loved movies and went to Leonardtown theater everyday.
Track 03
1:13:31 When Mr. Young’s daughters were called “Nigga Girls”, he went right to the source and got them straight. He defended his family’s dignity. Demanded mutual respect.
1:15:37 Religion: Was important coming from Africa. Always sang by calling on Jesus. Mother always insisted that everybody in her house went to church on Sundays. Grandmother wasn’t religious but was a very kind person. I was a Catholic as long as her mother was living. Wasn’t encouraged to read the bible because service and bible was in Latin. Started reading bible at age 48. After reading realized that some of the things that she was taught in church were not true. No longer goes to Catholic Church but reads the bible faithfully. Goes to Prison Fellowship Ministry
Track 04
1:25:20 Only difference between whites and blacks is the color of your skin. Difference in opinions and perspectives.
1:27:57 People are different today then when I grew up. People were raised and believed different.
Track 05
1:32:57 The one thing that has meant the most to me is how my mom and dad raised me.
UNIFIED COMMITTEE FOR AFRO-AMERICAN CONTRIBUTIONS Oral History Project
THERESA YOUNG
Interviewer: Bob Lewis Recorded: November 2, 2003
[Begin Side 1, Tape 1 of 1, Copy 2]
BL: This is a project of the Unified Committee for Afro-American Contributions. Today’s
date is November 2, 2003. Today we are interviewing Theresa Young in her home. The
interviewer is Bob Lewis.
BL: So Ms. Young, can you tell me your full name? Can you state your full name?
NTY: Nanny Theresa Young.
BL: Okay. Can you say it in a sentence? My name is...
NTY: My name is Nanny Theresa Young.
BL: Okay. Can you tell me where you were born and tell me about your people?
NTY: I was born in Leonardtown on … 1921. To--. I am the daughter of Jane Francis Swales,
and my father was Frank Swales, and I was born in Leonardtown. And, I’ve lived in
Leonardtown all my life. I’ve never lived anywhere else. Yeah, I am the youngest of 19
children, and my mother’s --. Some of them --. Some of them died at birth but, most of
them lived. And, I only have three sisters left in my family. And, I don’t know if they
want me to use their names so, but one is Harriet and one is Eleanor and I’m Theresa.
I’m the youngest of the 19, and I’ve been in Leonardtown all my life. I’ve never lived
anywhere but Leonardtown. And when I was a child, I was born right in the town of
Leonardtown, and that’s where I lived about most of my life, right in Leonardtown, Maryland. And most of the people that I grew up with, most of them are deceased.
But, I can remember my grandmother telling me about her childhood. She was slave on -- of the Blackistone Plantation right where St. Mary’s Academy is today. That was where she was born and that’s where she lived as a child until slavery was over. And when slavery was over, she was -- just a young, young woman when slavery was over.
And, she had brothers and her mother’s name was Clara. And her mother --.Her mistress
was from Charles County. She was a Plata from Charles County. And her husband --.
She married one of the Blackstone’s, and that was her master, the big master. And, she
was a child during slavery and -- on the plantation.
But you know, it was rough because she said her mother had to leave her in the
morning’ to tend the cows. She had to carry the cows to the meadow and when they --.
She left the meadow, then she went to the field to work and she never came back until
after she had finished in the field and after the cows were brought back from the meadow
and milked, and she carried the milk to the house. But, they had one lady to mind the
children that were left in --. In the slave quarters while their parents, you know, did their
work on the plantation. But, she was a happy -- grew up, you know, seeming to be a
happy child and she was not a bitter woman after she got grown. She was gentle, kind
person and she never bore no grudges or no, you know hard feelings. That was my
grandmother. And, she married, but she went to --. She worked for Quakers, she said,
up in Pittsburgh and that’s where my mother was born, up in Pittsburgh. And, she came
back and my mother was christened in Baltimore at one of the Catholic churches. And
she came back home, and she got married and lived in St. Mary’s County, you know,
until she died. And, my grandmother was 91 when she died. And those were just some things that I remember and some of it, I don’t remember; but, she was a gentle woman, a
very loving, kind woman. You never felt no animosity to anybody, and she was a well-
liked person. And she did always–but she couldn’t --. My grandmother never learned to
read or write, and she couldn’t read or write, but she always wanted her children to go to
school and to better themselves. To get as much education as --. As they could afford in
that day. Because in them days.
Oh. Well, she slept in the slave quarters and she said it was a one-room shack and
it had dirt floors. And, she had --. They had to gather straw --. Straw or leaves out of the woods and stuff it in the bags. That’s what they slept on at night. I mean, we all know how terrible slavery was and we all know that nobody --. And she said, like knives and forks --. –There weren’t any. You used your fingers or sometimes she said you’d get used oyster shells and you’d scrub them real clean and white, and that’s what you used.
And, we all know that. I mean, we can see in movies where things were enhanced, but it wasn’t enhanced for her because that’s the way it was in that day. And, you know, we all know. We’ve all had stories about slavery, and we know it wasn’t glorious or glamorous
at all, we all know that.
But, I feel in my heart that was the way it was. But being a God fearing person, I have learned: You don’t hold animosity. We’re all--. I say, created in God’s image and
no animosity is to be held. That’s what you went through, and God brought you through
that. And to me, and even to my grandmother because she --. Like I told you, she was a very kind, gentle lady and there was no animosity. And, she did want the best for her children, and they all went to school.
And at that time, one-room schools and you probably went as far as 5th or 6th grade and then, you know, you went on to work or do whatever work you could do. My
mother says she married at a young age because she wanted her own home and she
wanted things for herself, but she had sisters that went to the city and got good jobs. Did
labor and work, but --. Then, she had a brother that fought in World War I. My
grandmother had brothers that fought in the War Between the States. She had two
brothers. And when the war was over, they never came back. They went on to Ohio and
she never saw them brothers again. She don’t know whatever happened to them.
When in my young days: My life was spent in Leonardtown, right in the heart of
Leonardtown. And to me, and to this day, I know about segregation. I know all about things that, you know, you went in the back door --. I know all about that, but I don’t hold it. I look forward to what’s better and to better myself, to better things --. Make things better for other people. I don’t hold --. I guess I’m like my grandmother, and my mother, because you don’t hold onto things. You just start out to see if you can help to make it better for those that are coming behind you and --. But you do impress upon young people that you need to be educated. You need to work hard. You need to try to help to make it better for yourself and better for whoever’s coming behind you. And, that’s the way my life has always been. And, you do your best, whatever it is.
My mother always taught all of us to always do your best and if something you know you can’t do, then those are the things you stay away from. You have to learn to find and to do what’s best for you, not what suits somebody else. What’s going benefit me, or what can I contribute to help others? But never, never holding to negative and never looking back on what used to be. Always look forward to see: Well, what can I do to make it better? Or to improve or whatever. That’s being the way I felt. And all of this County today, when I look around now, even white or black that I was raised with, there’s very few. It’s not many more original that I grew up with.
White or black, and I’ve had --. As growing up, we know we were separated, but we
always looked out. If you had white people that encouraged and wanted and helped you
in whatever way they could to make things better for all of us because somehow or
another, we seemed like we were a community and different people in this community.
But to make us a better community, we will try to make it better for each one in that
community. That’s the way that I was raised and that’s the way I see St. Mary’s County
or Leonardtown all through my life, and I’ve been here from the day I was born until
now. And, it’s always, to me, been that way.
Sure, you had people that maybe didn’t like you or maybe called you out of your name, but my mother always let me know that I am somebody. And just because you call me that name, I don’t have to be that name. I can always rise above that. I can be a better person I can let you know by my actions that I am somebody and that I can be a better person. And, I try to instill in my grandchildren today: You can do. You can be better because you don’t have to be what people call you or what people think you are.
You take pride in who you are and living’ and being a better person because you can be.
And, that’s the way I look at my life.
And, I love Leonardtown. I love St. Mary’s County. That’s all I’ve ever known.
I have been to other places. But hey, this is home and I love home, and I love all the
people in this home. We’re all one people. And, just by living, I guess, to get 82, I have
learned --. I have learned it really --. Some things are really not that important. I mean,
I’m here. I have good health. I have a place to stay. I have–and I’m willing to contribute to programs, to whatever I can do to help. If I can make it better for somebody
coming. I’ve always wanted to do that. It’s partially the way I was raised. My mother
was always the one to uplift, uplift to give, to make it better. And I think even from my
grandmother as a child in her day, it was always to uplift and to make it better.
BL: Do you remember your grandfather? Can you tell me about him?
NTY: My mother --. My grandmother never knew her father. Uh uh [no] because they were
moved from different plantations. She never met him–her father. She never had a father
figure in her house -- life. All she remembered was her mother and the lady that watched
the children in the slave quarters. She never remembered her father. And, she might
have known who he was. And then, you know one thing? In that day, it’s some things
old people wouldn’t tell you and [chuckle] they didn’t discuss it with you. Only certain
things they wanted you to know. And to me, it was things that were encouraging or
uplifting. Some things they didn’t want you to know or I guess I won’t say it wasn’t
important, but they just never let you know about certain things and they would let you
know: A child is supposed to be in a child’s place. And, certain things they just did not
discuss with you. And, she never mentioned her father but only her mother and she never
said anything about who her father was. But although, she had brothers–two brothers,
but they never--. She never said anything about her father.
BL: Tell me about your mother. Tell me what kind of woman was she. What was her day
like?
NTY: My mother was–. She was born in Pittsburgh and her father was MacWilliams. She was
Jane Francis MacWilliams, and I don’t know who MacWilliams was. That was her
name, and she was a hard working lady. She believed in helping her neighbors. She believed in achieving: Always do your best. Always carry yourself -- because you are
important. Don’t care where you come from, you are human and you are important and
carry yourself that way.
BL: She took strangers in?
NTY: She was a kind person.
BL: She ran a hotel?
NTY: Yes, she ran a hotel. You know, it was a black hotel up in --. Right in the heart of
Leonardtown, right behind what you call Bell Motor Company. It was a little hotel.
When the people come from the city, you know, with the --. When the merchants used to
have men come and, you know, give out the orders, one would stay in the white hotel and
some in the black hotel. It was always people coming and going. But, she was very kind,
very generous.
BL: Did she sew?
NTY: Oh yes–Yes, she always made all of our clothes and she could sew, and she could play
the piano a little bit. But, she was always active in organizations and in voting because
she knew that that was important. That you, as a citizen, to register and vote because
that’s a privilege that you have and she figured that was one that you earned. Those are
privileges. And since you earned them, you participate in them and you do your best, and
you give--. You always give back to organizations, to your community, tofriends.
And, they had little organizations. And, I didn’t realize that some of the
organizations started in this house because they were called --. What is it? Societies,
beneficial societies and they had one in Leonardtown, and it was called St. Aloysius’
Beneficial Society. And you gave a little stipend and at your death, that society would bury you. And, those members of the society, if the man of the house was sick, then the
men in that society would come and do the work and help that family until that man got
well enough to come back and do his own. Or if the woman got sick, then the women
would go and help the woman, see that the children were fed and clothed. Do the
woman’s work until the woman could get up on her feet, and that’s why they were called
Beneficial Societies. They were there for the community to help one another. And, we
have--. We had several of them in St. Mary’s, but I think St. Jerome’s is still active. But
other than that, the rest of them are not active. But, that one is still active.
BL: Okay. Tell me more about this hotel your mother ran. Did she own it?
NTY: No.
BL: Tell me more about it.
NTY: No. It was --. She rented it and--. But she did it because when she come back, she
moved to Washington, but she didn’t stay. She come back and opened that hotel, and
people--. You know when, like I said, traveling salesman, they would spend the night.
Sometimes some of the school teachers would rent rooms while they were here teaching.
And, people would come back and forth, like that. And, she always rented that hotel and
she was a very hard-working lady. And she would, cook the meals and that was after--.
We had fairly grown. I mean, she had --. When she ran that hotel, but people always
came and we always had our place. You could not --. At the dining room table or when
people were playing or visiting, you couldn’t come in and run and suit ourselves. We had
to go to the back and be respectful and do all those kinds of things.
Huh? Oh yeah. When I was going to school, we had a one-room school. We had
this St. Aloysius Beneficial Hall. And when I went, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Grade, it was on the back of that hall and I had a -- one teacher. And when you got to the 4th Grade, then they
had a one-room school down the hill. Right across from St. Aloysius’ Cemetery that’s
down there now, it was a one-room school and that carried you from the 4th Grade to the
6th or 7th Grade. And then when you come out of that, that was all because it was no
high school here for black children in that day. If you wanted to go higher, you had to go
to the city or you had to --. Some parents sent their children to Charles County and you
had to board them in order for them to go in high school because we had no high school.
MRS. YOUNG’S DAUGHTER: What about Jarboesville?
NTY What? No. That came later, honey, because when the --. That organization, black
organization: The men mortgaged their homes and they bought land. It was --.What do
you call it? A school where it taught children trades and when --. Because I had older
brothers that learned to --. How to cane chairs. But when that school closed down, the
organization was --. They come together. We had Mr. Burton Thompson, Mr. Herbert
Blackstone, Mr. John Shelton and Mr. --. A man from over 7th District. Several black
people over at Hollywood. They all come together and formed the organization and they
mortgaged their homes to buy that land up there were Banneker is.
And, those men cut lumber off of that land and carried the lumber to the mill and
they built the first Banneker, a two-room school: one on that side and one this side and a
hall down the middle, and that was the first high school. In order for it to be a certified
high school, it had to be given to the Board of Education, and that’s when we first had a
high school. And, I did remember --. But I --. I went to the first Banneker High School
and I went in there --. I think it was what we would call first year of high school. I think
I might have been in the 7th or 8th grade, at that time, but now it would be first year high. And, that was our first high school in St. Mary’s and children from all over this county
came to Banneker High School from Charlotte Hall, from down Ridge, from all over this
County, around 7th District and had buses to bring them children to that two-room high
school. And, I can remember Miss --.I think it was Mrs. Tellafero or somebody was one
of the first teachers. And, I can’t think of the lady’s name. She come from Morgan State,
and she was one of our teachers. And, it was just a two-room high school and so many
classes in this room. And, we’d take certain subjects, then you’d have a break and those
children would come out in the hall and the other children would go in that building for
the Math or something like that. And, that was our first high school: those two rooms.
And later on, they built --built a larger building, but our first high school was built
by those --.and there a plaque was up in there with the men’s pictures and the men that
belonged to that organization that build that high school. And, it was black men of this
county that built that first Banneker High School. And, you know, it stayed that way
until the Board of Education built a bigger high school, but that -- and then you had that,
and then they built a high school at what is called Jarboesville. They had a high school
down for the children down that way. But now, it was no -- only when my grandchildren.
I did have one daughter went to -- went to Leonardtown High School when it was built,
but that was when I had children. That wasn’t -- when they first built a high school.
MRS. YOUNG’S DAUGHTER: Maxine went to Banneker.
NTY: I say, but that was in my day --my day and my children, but my last youngest daughter,
they did build a Leonardtown High School. That was a long while after I went through
Leonardtown. Because in my day, there wasn’t no high school, but always had a -- up at
--. MRS. YOUNG’S DAUGHTER: (…) at St. Joseph’s
NTY: No. Up at a -- No. Up at the school where it was now: Margaret Brent. There was a
Margaret Brent High School and a Great Mills High School, but we couldn’t go to that.
It was segregated. We couldn’t go to that, and we didn’t go to that. That’s why we built
Banneker High School.
BL: Okay. Hold on a second.
[End of Side 1, Tape 1 of 2, Copy 1]
[Begin Side 2, Tape 1 of 1, Copy 2]
NTY: ...We used to come in because–
BL: Okay. Let’s start fresh with that thought. I’ve got the tape turned over. Tell me about
the steamboats.
NTY: Oh, that was when I was a child. I mean, very young.
BL: Start by saying, you know, a sentence.
NTY: Well, in my younger days as a young child, when the steamboats used to come to the
wharf right there in Leonardtown and they used to have a --- floating theater used to
come to the wharf in Leonardtown and it was -- The floating theater, I think, was belong
by -- run by the Adams’ from–I don’t know where. Virginia or somewhere, but it was a
show -- like it had dancing and singing and plays and -- And then, the other boats that
used to come to take the tobacco and stuff to the Baltimore -- to the Harbor. That was
when I was very young, as a small child. And sometimes, we couldn’t even go down to
the wharf unless -- somebody older was with you because -- me, personally [chuckle]. I
was scary and I would go on the wharf because it wasn’t but planks, you know wooden.
But, I would stand way back [chuckle] because I didn’t -- was afraid I would fall off in the water, but people used to throw out money and candy and stuff off the wharf -- off the
steamboat for you and on.
And in the floating theater, when that came, we had an old man and woman.
They were the-- I forget the last name, but they always came every year when you heard
a floating theaters, and they would come -- the Adams’ Floating Theater. And, the
Adams would come every year. We had one man, Mr. Joe Gunn and the lady that with
him. She always went.-- she took care of the women’s costumes. He was there for the
men and the men’s costumes, and they went on that floating theater every year up and
down the Mississippi River when they used to have show boats. And, they would leave
here and go and come in-- when the season opened and then they would come back in the
fall on this showboat when the season closed at the end of the year. And, they did that
for a years. That was when the boats used to come into the Leonardtown Wharf years
ago, and I was a small child when they used to do that. I was very young, and I would
have to -- You couldn’t go by yourself. You would have to go with your older brothers
or sisters because your mama wouldn’t let you go there by yourself.
And, Mr. -- I can’t think of the man --. He used to have a store. What’s the
woman --? Mr. -- the woman where you say is over Cedar Lane? I can’t think of her
name. Her father was -- Johnson. Yeah. He had a store right over the water and wood
store and he sold candy. He sold all kinds of things right off the wharf and we could go
down and buy penny candy or vegetables or --. It wasn’t --. Everything canned because
you didn’t have no, nothing to keep fresh meat or nothing like that. Just because it was
on the water and he -- and I can’t think of that man’s name. Mr. Johnson? One of them had a store over the water and down that way and the other brother had a store going down Leonardtown Hill, right where Duke’s is. Wasn’t no Duke’s. You come down and
go -- and his store as you’re going to our one-room school, but they were Johnsons.
I said they were -- Them people were Johnson’s, and I can’t think of the name.
But, that was part of my childhood growing up. We had -- And years ago, we had what
people call now A&P. We had a A&P store right where the 1st National Bank is, right on
the back side. It was A&P store, and you could get -- had refrigeration and you could get
fresh meat. You could get vegetables. That was in them days.
Then, we had one man and of course his store, that building still sits there, but it
was Mr. Nuffle -- Greg Nuffle’s store and his family lived up over top of the store. And,
you could go in there, but you couldn’t get a lot of fresh meat. Most stuff was canned or
vegetables or cookies or cake or stuff like that, but wasn’t very much fresh meat you
could get out of those country stores in them days because you had no whole lot of
refrigeration. You didn’t have that in those days.
My mother had hogs back in her day, but --. And then, you had to salt your meat
down and stuff like that to keep it but --. And, we didn’t have because you could raise
pigs in Leonardtown in that day. You could do that because -- Yeah.
BL: No TVs.
NTY: No! I grew up with lamp -- kerosene lamps. That’s what I grew up with as a child.
That’s what you done your homework by. That’s was all you had. Was no electricity.
BL: Outhouses.
NTY: Yes. All of that was part of my growing up -- my childhood and very few people had
electricity in Leonardtown. Very few. And when it was, it was that one bulb with a –No
-- with a cord that you pulled to turn the light on, and very few people had that. Very few people had that. Most of us had kerosene lamps or things like that. Very few, in my day.
BL: Ice Box.
NTY: Huh? Ice box and Mr. Bill had a -- right where the Leonardtown Wharf is now used to be
a ice house where you go get blocks of ice. And, you had people to -- on the horse and
buggy -- horse and wagon, and you put ice on the wagon. And, they’d stop by your
house and you’d buy whatever size that could fit your ice box. That’s how you kept your
food and that’s how you -- That’s all you had. It was no -- electricity wasn’t in my
childhood. Uh uh! [no] you had the ice box. And, sometimes you could have ice water
and sometimes you didn’t because you put that ice in the ice box and it would melt down.
And, you had a bucket underneath the ice box to catch the water as the ice melt. That
was part of my childhood growing up.
And, you had a wood stove. You cooked on a wood stove. You ironed clothes on
a wood stove. Everything was -- was no what you call conveniences. It was just
kerosene lamps. And, you did have --. Some people might had a kerosene -- What you
call it? A kerosene stove, but they were --They were kind of dangerous, but others were
wood stoves. You know, you burned wood and you cooked on top the stove. You had a
oven for your bread, and that’s what I grew up with until I got, I guess, grown. That’s
what you grew up with.
BL: Tell me more about the hotel. Who were the customers? What was Leonardtown like?
NTY: Most of the customers were traveling salesman that always come. And then, sometimes
you had people just coming from one town to another just, I guess, going through. And
sometime, some people would --. They had bus service because we had bus
transportation that would take you from Leonardtown to Washington. And sometimes, people would get coming from different, like Virginia. Get on the wrong bus and they’d
end up down here and we had people --. My mother would take in people that were
homeless. She always took in people. And sometimes, they would have to stay
overnight and try to catch the next bus to put them on the right track so they could get
where they were going. And, we saw a lot of different people coming and going because
where did they have to stay? At my mother’s hotel. It was all -- and she never turned
nobody out. She always made room for people --strangers, and people used to tell her,
“You better watch out who you take in. You might get hurt” or something like that. But,
no. She always was a trusting, kind person.
Sometimes, you know, people come and go. Some people couldn’t pay. Some
could, but she never let them out or she never turned her back on them. She always kept
them and helped them to get on the way wherever they were traveling to because
sometimes they would get on the wrong bus and come in the wrong direction.
And then, you used to have circuses in that day.
BL: Did Gypsies com through?
NTY: Yeah, well. I have heard of different gypsies come through in my day. But then every
year, the circus –like -- It wasn’t Barnum & Bailey Ringling Circus [chuckle], but it was
small companies or circuses would come, and they’d always pitch over in what used --
what is now--McGraw -- Mattingly used to own that farm. But in that day, it was --.
They would let people come in the circus and you always pitched -- their tents over there
and they’d have circus shows, wild animals. And, some of them would have dancing
girls and things like that. But -- and kids and people all around the town would come and
go to see the circus over in the woods. And if it was people that –well -- had to stay overnight, most of them, some of the circus women would come and stay at my mother’s hotel. And we met --. You seen all
kinds of people coming from different parts of the country, but they’d all -- If they were black-- they’d all had to end up there because hotels and things -- was a hotel in
Leonardtown. But they weren’t integrated. They weren’t integrated. If you came -- and
you probably wouldn’t get a room there, you’d have to come and my mother would take
them in. And course, they would pay.
And sometimes: I remember when you could buy a whole dinner for 25¢. You
had -- and she was a good cook and she was --kept everything --. Had to be immaculate.
Everything had to be just so, but nobody left hungry. If you had money to pay, you paid.
And if you didn’t, she wouldn’t not see you go hungry. She would always -- see that they
had something to eat and help them to go on -- catch their bus so they could get where
they wanted to go. And, we met -- all different kinds of people coming and going from --
because it was a small town and --and the bus service only came in Leonardtown. And,
was no Lexington Park and it wasn’t any of that. All of that was farm land and stuff like
that. And so -- and, I think the bus -- that was the bus service.
But, the steamboats would leave Leonardtown and go to Medley’s Neck. And
then from that wharf, they would go on out -- to further. Yeah, to different other parts
because it was down, like, St. Mary’s City and places like that, it was too shallow for
steamboats or something like that.
To me, it was a -- I don’t know. It was a joyous childhood, for me. I enjoyed my
childhood and I don’t know. I just love St. Mary’s. That’s all I know and I love all of it.
I loved it all. And, I can remember when -- where you have St. Mary’s College down here now,
down at --. What is it? Down St. Mary’s City, I can remember that used to be an all-girls
boarding school. I can remember that. And, what we had -- nobody here ever went -- out
of black --. In that day, you never went. And, I can remember when it was a boarding
school for kind of wealthy young people that went to St. Mary’s College down there.
Even out here at Leonard Hall and at St. Mary’s Academy, those all -- They were
religious schools. They were all white schools in that day. There was not --. But now,
you know, integration. That changed a lot of things. In that day, it wasn’t and that was --
what I --mostly what I grew up in.
But in spite of whatever or however, I loved it and I still love it! [chuckle] It’s
just, Leonardtown and St. Mary is a great place to be. I love it. I love it. All of the
shortcomings, all of the good things: I still love.
MRS. YOUNG’S DAUGHTER: Who created the stuff ham here?
NTY: Oh, well. Stuffed hams were created back in slave time, in -- People that come out of
slavery or in -- They had the stuffed ham and it was the women and the men on them
plantations were given certain parts of the hogs that could keep for themselves. And,
they used to take the jaw and stuff it and they made -- with the vegetables and spices, and
they stuffed it. And, they would tie it and boil it and cook it. And, some of their slave
masters taste it and thought, “Well, it’s good! But if we use the good part of the ham, it
would be better.” And, that is how in St. Mary -- St. Mary’s County, no. Right here in
Leonardtown, Mr. Aloysius King mother and them people were the first people that
started stuffing ham. Slaves stuffed the jaw. But stuffing the hams was started right here
by Mr. Aloysius King mother and father, and the black people stuffed them. But, they gave them the best part of the ham in order to make it a better tasting piece of meat. And,
it was started right here in Leonardtown, stuffed ham, right here. And, it was good
[chuckle] and it still is!
But, I mean -- I just love my hometown and I love Leonardtown. I always --
That’s all I ever knew.
Yes indeed! You already know: We had people that always will and still to this
day will call you out of your name, but my mother always taught us to hold your head up
high. You don’t have to be what people call you. You know who you are and what you
are. Hold your head up high and be what you want to be. You don’t have to listen to -- whatever people say, that don’t make you that. You rise above that. We will always encourage that you can rise above. Always rise above. And although I don’t say --.
My father had a temper [chuckle], but my mother didn’t. She was a gentle lady, and she always let us know: You are better and you can be better. Always. And, I try to
“installed” that in my children and in my grandchildren to this day. You don’t have to be what people think you are. You don’t have to be what they call you. You know who you are and you can rise above. Always be your best. Always do you best. I was taught that.
Although I might not live up to it, I was taught that: to always be your best and do your best because you can rise above it.
And, my mother was the one that believed in rising above. If you can make it two steps, go three. If you can go three, go four. If you go four, go five. Always rise above.
You don’t have to be down, and don’t let -- and if they put you down, you think highly of yourself. You build yourself up, your feelings. I am worthy! I am somebody! You don’t put yourself down. Um hmm [no]. Although you fall, we all fall short. We always don’t hit the mark, but you don’t stay there. That’s what she always taught us. You can
achieve; you can do, and always strive to do, to go the extra mile.
And, she was a woman that believed that she lived that and she taught us to do
that. Don’t care if you fall or if you fail. We all fall and we all fail, but you don’t have to
stay there. You can do better. Rise above it. And, just Leonardtown --I love. I love --I
love Leonardtown and always will because that’s home to me. Leonardtown is home,
and I love it.
BL: Can you tell me: Did you live and stay at the hotel or did you live somewhere else?
NTY: Yeah! No – we -- My mother had her family at that hotel. My sisters and brothers, we
lived there and as each one grew up, some went to Washington to stay. Some went, but I
was the one [chuckle] that never went nowhere. I always stayed and I had a sister across
the street. She went to Washington, but she didn’t stay. She come back because those
are my sisters: Ralph --.Alma --– I mean Harriet Forrest and Alma Butler, Ralph Butler’s
wife. Those are my two sisters left. Only three of us left, but I never went nowhere. I
stayed here [chuckle] and I still -- and I love Leonardtown. I love being a part of
Leonardtown. I do --I love it.
And, we had organizations. We had black organizations and Citizens For
Progress. I had a sister in-law, Everlyn Holland’s mother -- We all worked in Citizens
For Progress, and Citizens For Progress was founded by Dr. Brandywine and Miss
Mamie Young and Miss Edna Hall my 70 --. Those women went to Washington and Dr.
Brandywine helped them to form that organizations and to place visitors that we ever
heard of come to that organization – and Brandywine --to help these people put their
organizations together, to do things for each other, start a housing projects. Those were built out of Citizens For Progress, and those were -- those women: Lucille Young and all
those women -- Betty Blackstone --all of those was in that organization, and that’s when
that organization started. And, those were when the first visitors that ever came through
that organization. And, it did do good because it started the housing projects -- the one
over Oakville, the one down --Yeah. Norris Road -- all of those were started by that
organization. And, self help housing -- all of that come about through Citizens For
Progress. And, we had visitors, visitors from Indiana. We had visitors from all over.
One of the ex-Commissioners: What’s his name?
BL: Joe Anderson.
NTY: Joe Anderson was a visitor, come here as a visitor, and Joe Anderson was -- and he
stayed. He came back; he stayed. But, that organization was the one that brought the
visitors to help. And, it did a lot of good because we had a cookbook printed by them,
and the visitors went -- all over the county to help people, encouraging children to go on
to colleges and things. It was a good organization, Citizens For Progress was. Helped,
encouraged people to get their own housing. And, Mrs. Holland’s mother was a very
active member in that. That’s the best I can help you with.
BL: Okay. You were talking a few minutes ago about the animosity --.
NTY: Yeah!
BL: And the prejudice --.
NTY: Yeah!
BL: Can you tell me: Was there ever a time that you felt afraid?
NTY: I really -- And I’ve heard my mother talk about people being hung because it was
somebody hung. And, I think his name was Ben Hanson and he was hung around Compton, around through that way because some girl -- white girl was walking through the woods and she had a heavy bucket and he helped her to put that bucket up over the fence; and, they made a song out of it. He never -- and she told the people he never
bothered her. He never molested her, but he was hung. And then, but I -- I was small. I
don’t remember that. I don’t remember him being hung, but I’ve heard my grandmother
because they made a song of it: “Nobody but poor Ben Hanson helped a white girl over
the fence.” He was hung for that.
And then the next time somebody had said about hanging somebody or
something, then my grandmother did say that black men come together. And when they went to the jail to pick this man up, they rose up and protected him so that they -- attempt to hang him. But other than that, those are the only two times that -- violence really was done here in Leonardtown. But, I don’t say that you have prejudice people because that’s still true today, but as a rule.
Huh? Oh yeah. Well, that was -- That was a different kind of tale. He -- He was
courting a black woman and some white man liked her. And, he courted her and
somebody killed that white man, and they blamed it on his father and his father got life in
Maryland Penitentiary. After he had died there, after he had died years later when the white man was on his death bed, he confessed it --to killing this white man. But, the
other man had already gave his life for that incident. But other than that, you know, that
was about the worst thing that happened in my life because – because people were --. I don’t know that we just got along fairly good together in that day. But, it don’t say that you weren’t called out of your name or whatever. You’ll always find that, but my mother always taught me that you can rise above that. You don’t have to be what they say or what they call you, and I tell my children and grandchildren: Just because somebody call
you that you don’t have to be that. You can be man enough or woman enough to rise
above it because you know, and I believe in my heart, and I know who I am and what I
am. And, what you say -- that’s your problem! [chuckle] I know who I am and I’m going
to rise above. I’m going to always be a better. I’m not going to --I’m not going to stoop
to your level. I’m going to rise above it.
BL: Okay. Let me take a short break.
[End of Side 2, Tape 1 of 2, Copy 1]
[Begin Side 1, Tape 2 of 2, Copy 2]
BL: Okay. Mrs. Young, maybe you can tell me about your immediate family, your children.
NTY: Yeah well. My oldest daughter was Alice and I –Alice -- My husband was not her father
Alice has my name. She was Alice Swales, and she was the oldest and she still is the
oldest. She stayed here awhile and then she went to the city to work -- to do day’s work.
And after doing day’s work, she got a job in working for Giant Food. And, she stayed
there for, I guess, 30 years. She retired when they -- when– What is it? Ahold bought
them out. She retired, and – but --. She worked and took care of herself, and she always
come back at Christmas time to bring toys and things for her sisters and brothers.
And, my next oldest son was James and he worked around here and then, he went
to Washington. And, he -- married and had family and worked. But now, he works for
the city and I think he said -- What is it? In three more years, he’ll retire from working
for the city. He has family.
And then --What is? Francis, my next daughter. Francis Frasier: She went
Corderes Peters for awhile typing and she worked in the city government; and now, she works for P.G. County government and she’s still working.
And who’s next after Francis? Maxine. They all went to the city. She went --
She lives in Washington and she works at the Martin Luther King Library now, but she was in the federal government. Come out. They all got good jobs and they all work and take care of their self. They all had children. Francis only had one, Maxine has two sons, and the oldest -- David. He went to -- He graduated from Georgetown University. He got a scholarship that he won to go to Georgetown. So, he was -- He worked over at St.
Mary’s Academy after school in the kitchen, and the people – The people there thought a lot of him and they were empathy for him because he loved books and education. And, they helped him to get a scholarship to Georgetown – four year scholarship, and he graduated from Georgetown. And, he worked in Washington.
And then my next one, George -- and George worked at one time. He stayed here. But when he went to Washington, he worked in government at one time, but I think
George didn’t like that. He didn’t care for that type of work. So, he worked for Emerson
Dairy for awhile and then in later years, he went out to Indiana. And from Indiana, he lives in California now. And, I hear from him quite often, but he lives out there where the fires were. What is it? Encino, I think it is. Yeah, and I do hear from George.
Then, I had Bertha. Bertha -- She didn’t -- She went to -- She didn’t finish high school, but she got a job and she always worked. Yep. She always worked and always took care of herself and bought herself her own trailer down in Lexington Park, and --
.Yeah. She went to Baltimore and stayed awhile, but now she’s back here with me.
And then, I had Marilyn. Yeah, she works for the -- What is it? She works for the -- the Navy Investigators. And then, my youngest daughter, Barbara and she has 3 children -- She had 2
children and I’m raising them children. Barbara died when she was 31 and I have her
children. I have a boy and a girl. That’s the girl and the boy’s still in high school, but
those were my children and they all worked and believe in working. They’re hard
workers and they had good jobs, and they had their own homes and things. They do
pretty good.
And, my husband died when Barbara was about -- Barbara was about 10 years old
when my husband died, and so. And, I got his pension and I -- and because I bought
this land when my mother died, when I bought this piece of land and I had -- I worked for
good people in Leonardtown. I always did day’s work.
But one of my favorite -- I won’t say favorite, but one of my very helpful people that I worked for was Oliver Wilder, and he was a good person, a kind person. And, he always would help-- help you with anything you needed to be helped with. He was a very good person. And, he’s passed. He’s deceased not too long ago; but anything that he could help you with, he would. And, I actually loved Mr. Weiner. He was a dear friend, and he was a lawyer. And if you needed him, and which thank God I never did have to go in court, but he would’ve been there for you. He would. Anything that he could do for you he would do. He would help because he helped me to get the first -- I had a mobile home on here and he helped and take that through the bank. But you know,
I just loved --. I thought the world of him and I told him so. And you know what he told me? I said, “I thank you for being here for me,” and he always told me, “I haven’t done no more for you than you did for me. You helped me to raise my children.” And, I was there with them children, and one of the girls -- She used to always tell him, “You’re my --“ tell her father, “You’re my boyfriend girlfriend.” And so when I started working for
her and she got close to me, she said, “Daddy, don’t get mad. You’re not my boyfriend
girlfriend anymore. You’re my boyfriend, but Theresa’s my girlfriend!” [chuckle] But, I
enjoyed working for him, he was a -- –it was a very good, kind-hearted man. Very good.
But I -- I’ve been here all my life and -- I just love it, and my children --: None’s
perfect, but they have the desire to work and take care of themselves and they had
children, and the children have been encouraged that you have to work and do -- and you
can do. You always had the thing that you can -- You can rise above all situations, and I
owe that to my mother: That you can rise above. Don’t sit there and stew about what’s
happening. Do something about it. Rise above that. You don’t have to stay down. You
can get up and you can rise above it. And, I always love her for that. You know, you’re
not what people say. You can -- You can rise above it. You can do it. You can make it.
It was always the encouraging to go forward. Never go back, go forward.
BL: Tell me more about Mr. Young. What did he do?
NTY: My husband --He was very young and he lived in Leonardtown. And, his mother and
father were good people, but he had a hard childhood. Everything wasn’t give to him and
he-- As a young boy, because there was no school, his father let him go to Washington
and he went to junior high and high school in Washington. But, and like most children, I
guess he got homesick. He come back home. And when he’d come back home in my
young day, I married him. But, he was a hard-working person and in his day, we had a
print shop. And, he worked for a man by the name of Frank Guy and he helped him to
print all kinds of articles for magazines and especially at the closing of school, they had
the yearbooks. And, he always helped with that. So, one year his boss got sick and my
husband printed those yearbooks for St. Mary’s Academy on his own. And --He was
good at that skill, at that trade, and he was not taught. You know, he only learned from
his boss. But, he could have -- If you look at it now, he could have went to the city and
made a good living printing because he could do it, and he knew how to do it. But
instead, he stayed here.
And when World War II, he was drafted. I had I think it was two, three children.
Yeah, I had–I think it was two, three children and he was drafted and he went in, but at
the end of the war. I think he stayed maybe two -- maybe two years. And when he come
out, then he went to work down at the Navy base. And, he worked at Transportation
down at Navy base up until the day he died. At his death, what I had to live on was -- his annuity. That’s what they call it and that’s -- and I used to always ask him how much is in there. And, he always said, “It’s enough.” And I sit back now and say, “Well, no wonder he’s not worried. He be gone! And, I guess it’s enough because it’ll be up to you.” But thank God, I was able to manage it and to raise my -- because when he died, onliest one that was left was my baby girl and she was 10 years old. But all the rest of them had grown, but he was a good father and he loved moving pictures. And, it was a theater in Leonardtown and every day at 6:00 when that theater opened, he was there. I used to say, “Well, how do you sit and look at it over and over?” [chuckle] He would be there! He loved going. That was his hobby. He loved it, and he went down to that theater every day. And, Mr. Condella used to be in the 1st National Bank, was President
in his last days. He said he met him, my husband, at that theater and they had become
two friends. He told my children, he said, “that was my first friend when he moved here
and my best friend.” My husband and him, Mr. Condella. “That’s my first friend,” he
said, “and my best friend.”
But, my husband was a hard-working person. But me, I -- people, like would say
things that way. But I guarantee you if you call him out of his name, he didn’t use
vulgar, but he would let you know in his mouth that, “I am just as good as you are.” It’s
not different. But, I would just say, “Well, you know. I can rise above.” But he might
rose above it, but he was going to let you know because he was forward. [chuckle] He
would let you know what he thought.
But, he was a good father and he always wanted the best for his children and he
would encourage them, and he would not let them slack off or whatever. Yes -- No, he
wouldn’t. “You can to it and you’re going to do it!” Yes, he would demand that you can
and you’re going to. He would not let you slack off. He said, “because I had it hard
growing up, I don’t want you to grow up hard. You can do it and you will do it. Fight
for it.” He would encourage that way. He would, very much so. He believed in it.
BL: You said Mr. Young was quick to rebuff slurs.
NTY: Oh yeah!
BL: Slurs–
NTY: Oh yes!
BL: Are there any stories you might remember where it may have come back to bite him?
NTY: No, I can’t! [laughter] No, because. Yes, because his two daughters--That’s one of them–
was in the drug store on the corner and somebody -- very wealthy people in this county,
and I’m not going to call names, but he called them “nigga gals.” And of course, God
knows when he -- When them children come and told him, he went right to the place or
the source-- [chuckle]
MRS. YOUNG’S DAUGHTER: And smacked them.
NTY: Yes, he did. He did. “And don’t you ever, ever call my girls out of their name again!”
Yes. No, uh uh [no] he -- He would let you know that you had called him out of his
name because he --
MRS. YOUNG’S DAUGHTER: I mean he smacked...
NTY: Yes, he did. Yeah, he--No, he wouldn’t take --He wouldn’t --No. You treat him like he
treated you. “I’m not going to do you and you’re not going to do me.” No, he was quick.
Wouldn’t fight, but he was quick to let you know. “I am not that and I’m not going to
stand and let you do me. If you use words with me, I’m going to use words with you. If
you want to go further, I will go further.” No. “I’m going to respect you and you are
going to respect me or else you don’t have to be around me.” No, he wouldn’t take that.
But I might have, but he wouldn’t. He was very forward, very much so.
BL: Okay. Tell me what part did religion play in your life?
NTY: Well, that was an important part of my --.–
BL: Okay. Start by saying, “Religion was an --“
NTY: Yeah. Religion was an important part of my life because to me, it seemed like that was --
I say, come back from Africa because my grandmother -- In that day, they always sung,
you know, calling on Jesus to help me. You know, to bring me through or you always --
And my mother, she used to play on the piano and she was Christian -- a Catholic, and
she was raised a Catholic and she died a Catholic because she believed in that whole-
heartedly. And, hymns and Sundays -- Nobody was going to sit in her house and not get
up and go outta that door to church. You were going. Wasn’t no excuse to it, you were
going. As long as you were in her house, you were going to be there on Sunday. You were going to be at that church whenever it was time for you to be there. And, I was raised in it and grew up in it; and, all my sisters and brothers were grew up it. And they -
- She --Whatever they said, she believed that and -- with her whole heart.
And Lent [chuckle], with that fish and that seafood. To this day, if some fish, I don’t want it. I got tired of that! [chuckle] --. But, I didn’t say that in her house. I had to eat that or else. But, she was very, very, very religious, but my grandmother wasn’t. But, she was a kind, gentle lady, but she never -- Nobody ever told her about God or taught her about religion.
Even my father: He was born -- My father was born back in slave and he -- He, you know, he went to church, but he wasn’t very --. But, my mother was very extra religious, very much so and she believed in all what they taught her and told her. And, but, I went as long as my mother lived, I was a Catholic. But then when I got older, it was some things that were taught that I just didn’t -- I --. I couldn’t go along with. And then, I had two Catholic priests -- Father Shubert and Father Barbel --because we weren’t encouraged to read that Bible. We were told, “You don’t understand it. It’s in there.
You don’t understand it,” and it was in Latin.
I’d sit in church, when I was young, and it was all Latin. I don’t know what I heard. I don’t know what they was saying, but I sit there because I had to, because my mother said you had to be there.
But, I had two priests that told me, “Theresa, pick the Bible up and read it. God has a message for you,” and I was 48 years old when I first picked it up and opened it to read. And [chuckle], I’ve been reading it ever since when I was 48 and I -- By my reading it and asking God to show me, to teach me because that’s in the 20's – 25th
Psalm. And, I know now that some of the things that I was taught are not true, but I
didn’t know that then. I was taught that. And after my picking it up [and] reading, I
come out–I --I guess I’m onlies one of my family. And, I came out of the Catholic
religion because it teaches things that are not even the word of God. It teaches things that
come out of the mind of your Pope or whoever, wherever seminary you went.
And, I didn’t realize this until late years: Each seminary, if it’s Baptist, it has
Baptist doctrine. If it’s Catholic, it has Catholic doctrine. Methodist --Each one has their
doctrine of what their church believes, and I didn’t know that until I’m near 80. And, some of the things that they believe is not necessary what God is telling you anyhow.
And to me, that means it’s time to back up, that you don’t need the --I don’t. I can’t
speak for nobody and I don’t try to. I’m only speaking for me. I can’t sit there and say,
“Yes, I believe” when I know I don’t. So by reading that, it’s a lot of things that I know are not so and I don’t propose to, you know, say that, “Yes, that’s so” because I know it’s not. And, that’s why, I don’t -- I don’t go. I read the Bible. I don’t go. And but, my sisters go faithfully every Sunday, and that’s okay. They’re my sisters and I love them.
But if that’s what’s for you, it’s okay, but it’s not for me. “I can’t stand there and tell
you, Sister, I believe when I don’t.” If I don’t believe that, I’m not going to go with that.
But, I don’t down nobody else’s and I don’t encourage nobody. You read it for
yourself because like them priests told me, “God has a message ‘specially for you and my
message might not be your message.” So, I don’t down nobody’s, but I choose to not to
sit under it. I’m not going to say, “Yes, I’m going to sit under that” because then I would
be a hypocrite. I have to go by what I read in that word and what God’s message is for
me. And, that is something that helps, encourages me to love all people. And, I do go to
prison fellowship ministry and I go to the women and I encourage them to let them know:
“Just because you’re incarcerated, you’re not the worst person in the world. We all sin
and fall short,” and I let them know that. I said, “Just like you sinned, I’m a sinner. God
tells me that in his word. We all sin and fall short. So, don’t put yourself down. You’re
created --.”
And, I have joined civil rights, black history. I’m in the stage now. I know it’s
different colors and races. I don’t see the color. If God said I’m created in His image
and likeness, what color is that? Nobody have seen. So if we are all in His image and
likeness, we are all one.
And, I look at the war pictures of Iraq today and in spite of all that evil and all
that, you only know you’re in the image of God. Those are your brothers and sisters in
Christ, whether they want to be or not. And, that’s the way I look -- I try to live my life,
the few days that I have here that: No, we’re all one. A human race. No color. Sure,
you’re colored; but if you’re in His image and if you’re in His likeness, that ain’t saying
nothing’ about color. You can be white, but you’re still in His image and likeness. You
can be black, but you’re still in His image and likeness. So, you’re His creation so act
like it. He never choose one over the other. He said we’re all one. So, that’s the way I
look at my life at 82. [chuckle]
BL: Okay. Do you think there is a difference between black people and white people? And if
so, what’s that difference?
NTY: The only difference I can see is the color of your skin! Other than that, no. You are a
human being. We have different attitudes; we have different likenesses. We’re all not
the same. But if we’re created by Him in His image and likeness, then we’re one. We
only have one Maker and we have only one that we’re going to answer to. And whether
we like it or not, you’re my sister --you’re my brother. I see you as my brother. I see
them over there as my sisters. I can’t separate that. That’s the why my life has turned
out in my latter days, just from reading the word of God. And if I can help, then I reach
out to my sister or my brother. He didn’t say what color they were, and we all have
different makeups, different attitudes. We all -- but in the final analysis, we’re all one
people: people of God. Don’t make no difference whether you Jew, Greek, whatever.
No! To me! That’s the way --That’s the message that comes to me. And I -- if other
people don’t believe that, well, that’s their right to do. And, I’m not going to be bent out
of shape [chuckle] or I’m not going to get mad or I’m not going to not speak. No, I’m
not going to do that. I’m going to try to do it His way. And when He walked the earth,
he didn’t choose and pick. He worked –He -- and when he died, he died for all. That all
might come to the knowledge of him. So, that’s the way I try to live my life.
BL: Okay. Let’s stop there for a second.
[End of Side 1, Tape 2 of 2, Copy 1]
[Begin Side 2, Tape 2 of 2, Copy 2]
BL: Do you think people are different today than they were when you were growing up? And
if so, how?
NTY: Well, I think yes. People are different today than when I grew up because when I grew
up it was a different time, and different things were important. What was important back
then seemed like more minor things, things that you own, things that’s on your farm or in
your home. But now, we live in a world, worldly surroundings. And yes, people are
different. People were raised different. People believed different. But because they
were raised different and because they believed different, they are still your sisters and
brothers in Christ, and you have to accept them even though they’re different. That’s the way I feel about that. I don’t, you know, say, “Well, I’m better than you. You’re not as good as I know.” We are all different and we are all raised different. We have different cultures; we have different beliefs, and I’m not going to down your beliefs and cultures. I
didn’t have to live under that. And I might not understand it, but I’m not going to say it’s
all wrong because that’s your culture and that’s your belief. Mine is different maybe
from yours, but we still --
We are all in this world together, and we’re all here together because the world, in
my day, was huge. But in this day and time, through modern inventions, the world is
smaller. We have the same, you know, division, but technologically and all is bringing
us all closer together. So, we have to --. I try to look at news. I try to read papers and
things to stay up on things. I don’t know about all these modern things, but this is the
time that we live in and things --. I say, the more it change, the more it stay the same
because it is a change. And, people are highly educated. Computers: I don’t know all
about them things, but it’s out there and it’s here.
And -- but to me, you accept people as they are because they are human people.
They’re not animals. They’re not …. They’re humans, and it’s all of different
nationalities, but it’s still one human race. But different nationalities, different teachers,
different beliefs, but we’re all one. We’re all on this planet together. And so if we try to
see it as-- difference but we’re all here, we all have some need of each other. And we
don’t always see the need that we have for each other, but we do need each other because
we are human. You know, we are human beings, and we all have one prayer. And so,
we’re here and try to --. : I might not know your culture; you might not know mine. But
my gosh, we are here and we are all in this world and we all --. It would be better if we
all would try to get along. Although you don’t believe in, I’ll just say that God put
certain people certain places at certain times for a reason. And I’ll tell you all now: I
don’t know all the reasons, but He knows and they’re there because that’s where He
wants them to be at that particular time.
And, we put up with each other. And to my country, I tell anybody: I love
America. This is all I know. I don’t know no other. And whatever happens in America,
no. We’re not perfect and we make mistakes, but this is my country. And same way
with Leonardtown: There’s other towns and other places, but this is all I know and I love
this. But if I go out from this, hopefully, I will be able to understand, tolerate and do
what, what I never was raised around, but I can be woman enough or man enough to
understand it or to try to tolerate it or, make it work together for our betterment. Not just
for me, but for all them that around you. That’s the way I look at life.
BL: As you look back across your life, what is the one thing that has meant the most to you?
And, start by saying, “The one thing that’s --.“
NTY: Well, the one thing that I guess that’s meant the most to me was my mom and who she
was and how she raised us. And, I have to say my mom and dad. But my mom --. My
dad worked and was head, but I think my mom was kinda the boss because my mom.
You know, this is the way it is and this is the way, and my dad accepted her opinion.
And, but he was a good provider: He always worked. He accepted her opinions, her
beliefs. And she was kinda a forward person, and we all accepted her. I just thank God
for her. I really do because I had a loving mom, a very -- I’d say she was a go-getta. If it
was out there, she was going to go and make it work. You know, you can! She was a
“you can do” person. She was going to make it work regardless of it was difficult, if
you’d come across hard times or things that --. You can do it. You can overcome. She
was a go-getter. [chuckle] Yes, she was, and I just thank God for her. I had a wonderful
mom. Nothing was going to defeat her. She was going to conquer. She was going to do
it. She never gave up.
BL: Is there a question you’d like to ask?
MRS. YOUNG’S DAUGHTER: I have a wonderful mom. She was a model.
BL: Well, thank you, Miss Theresa. I appreciate it very much.
NTY: Oh, you welcome.
[End of Side 2, Tape 1 of 2, Copy 2]