Getting and Nailing the Interview

LESSON TRANSCRIPT

MODULE 2 | LESSON 2 GETTING AND NAILING THE INTERVIEW

INTRO

I can tell you from being on both sides of the job-seeking fence that not all job seekers are doing things to really stand out nail their interview.

It’s important to not assume that employers will just magically know you’re awesome — you have to show them.

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And no, I’m not going to necessarily tell you to get a pink scented résumé like Elle Woods, but it’s actually an awesome example of the kind of X-factor that you have to think about so that you can get plucked out of all the résumés on a potential employer’s desk.

When I was ﬁrst applying for my ﬁrst job, I sent out hundreds of tapes all across the country to different news markets. And in local news, you start with the smallest and try

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to work your way up. I even tried to apply to national stations, I mean, the worst thing they could say was “no” and I felt pretty good knowing that at least I gave it a go.

Wayne Gretzky said you miss 100% of chances you don’t take, right?

But it was really the little touches that got me to get noticed. Back in the days of VHS, I know, I’m super old, applicants would send their tapes out with generic black sleeves and the label was just a sticker that they hand wrote their name on. I did not do that. I tried to re-think what a package would look like for a VHS tape. So, instead I paid an extra penny per sleeve and made mine red. And to make my labels stand out, I had them professionally printed on the spine and I used red, bold, all caps font. I thought “red always stands out.”

Then the next round of tapes I sent out for my next jobs got even fancier. I rethought what this looked like, yet again, and opted for those hard cases that you used to get movies in with a clear sleeve all around the box. I designed the slip that went inside that plastic case with my very limited Photoshop skills at the time and I put another red background, obviously, with my name and my phone number in the front ,and pictures of me in action reporting from the ﬁeld. Then on the back, I had the cover slip with the table of contents listed so that that employer could know exactly what to expect when they popped in the tape.

Whether or not I actually got the job, I really found out that news directors noticed, or whoever the station chief was that was watching that tape. In fact, one time, one of them said they didn’t have anything for me when they watched my tape originally, but they liked my attention to detail (I mean obviously, how could they dispose of such a lovely case so hastily) and they called me a couple of years later to offer me a job. At that point I already had a job, but it proved my theory that those little extra special touches got me noticed and remembered.

It’s always important to rethink convention when you’re applying for a job. Make it industry speciﬁc. Of course you’re not necessarily applying for local news and there are no VHS tapes anymore so that doesn’t make sense. But if you’re going into the creative ﬁelds of

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video or production, think about potentially sending a video intro in, or even think outside the box more and make your package stand out in a way that makes sense for your industry.

Hiring managers only spend about 20 seconds glancing over your cover letter and your résumé, so you’ve gotta make those twenty seconds count. Past just getting their attention, it really comes down to showing hey, here’s what I can do for YOU, tailored for each company, not a copy/paste situation. It’s important to prove your worth before they even ask you to. So I suggest instead of bragging about how awesome you are–I didn’t do that before I started out–I actually researched each market that I was applying to, to see the latest news in that area, and then I came up with three speciﬁc story ideas for them.

So I, in other words, said “Here’s what I can do for y ou. On day one I’ll do these three stories, I’ll pitch these ideas in a meeting.” I can tell you from the callbacks that I received that they really appreciated it, and they deﬁnitely remembered.

HOW TO GO AFTER THE JOB YOU WANT BY BEING PROACTIVE

You have to be ok taking some risks as you’re job hunting. You don’t want to just sit around waiting for your application to get noticed, for hirers looking at your résumé to call you because you’ve just taken their professional breath away. We'll talk about the value of adding a little "je ne sais quois" to your applications in a minute, but I also want to note the importance of having some chutzpah when it comes to getting what you want.

I’ll tell you a story from when I was a freshman in college. I knew I wanted to be a news anchor and I was determined to ﬁnd a way in. I didn’t have any fancy connections at all, so I set up an interview with the HR department (that’s what you’re supposed to do) at NBC in New York City for an internship–even though on the website they said they were only looking for juniors and seniors. I was a freshman, remember, and I showed up anyway.

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They shooed me away because I was too young. But, I still had my security badge on from when I arrived at that HR appointment. So I took a huge risk and went back into the building at 30 Rock, and got my way through security. I only knew one guy’s name, Asa Aarons (he was this famous consumer affairs reporter). I asked everyone on that ﬂoor where his desk was for WNBC, and when I found it, I just sat there waiting for him. He showed up, I said “Asa?”, he said “...Yes?”, I said “I’m Nicole Lapin, and I am your summer intern.” Granted, this could have gone really really badly–I could have gotten thrown out by security–but I didn’t. He was like “If you got your way through security, you’re probably going to be a good intern.” And I was! I was an intern at the number one market in the number one station in the country.

And I'm not necessarily advocating that you get thrown out by security or get in real trouble, but I am saying that you can know the rules and know when and how to break them.

While I was preparing this story for The Boss School, I started thinking about Asa. And I haven’t spoken to him in, gosh, almost 20 years, which is so crazy. So I looked him up and I wanted to get you his side of the story.

INTERVIEW CLIP: ASA AARONS

Asa: First off, to set the stage, NBC had had terrorist threats and was on lockdown, so bad, that they wouldn’t even let Lassie upstairs to do “Live at Five.” They stopped Lassie and her trainer and said “Sorry, we need papers for this dog.” So there are metal detectors and you now, people just all over, security guards and stuff, and in that atmosphere, I’m sitting writing at my desk, and you show up. You just walk in and make eye contact, say “Hi, my name is Nicole, I want to be your intern, I will be the best intern you have ever had.” And all I could say at that point was “How in the hell did you get in here?” and if you remember, you said “Hire me, and I’ll tell you.” And Nicole, I gotta tell you, at that point, I just thought so much of you, and so clever, and so fast, you know? We had to hire you, you know. You were the best intern. You were absolutely right. You did just some

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astonishing things, and uh, I’ll tell ya, I’ve been just delighted and really really proud to follow your career and see how it’s gone ‘cause you’ve just done terriﬁc things.

BACK TO THE REST OF THE LESSON...

HOW TO ROCK YOUR INTERVIEW:

In order to rock the interview, I want to give you some good and some not-so-good answers to common interview questions.

The ﬁrst one is “Tell me about yourself.” Yes I know that’s technically not a question per se, but it’s one of the ﬁrst things most people looking to hire will say.

A bad answer is: “Well, I went to school at XYZ university, then I got an internship at XYZ company, then I got a job at another company, then I got another job and now I’m looking for another. And, I have a dog.”

Why this is a bad answer: Well hello, they see all this stuff on your résumé. Why are you reciting what they already see in front their face? And unless you see 50 dog photos in their ofﬁce or you’re interviewing at a doggy daycare, assume they don’t care what kind of pet you have.

A good answer is: “My passion for XYZ (the industry that you are interviewing in) started in college where I found myself trying to solve these kind of problems in my dorm room. Some of the ﬁndings there drove me to try to put those to the test in the real world where I was hungry to learn more about those issues and company XYZ was a hotbed of that particular knowledge. As I discovered more about industry XYZ, I started focusing on that particular area, and that prompted me to write a journal entry and spread the message in XYZ in the most impactful way. Now I am looking to expand that knowledge base, which I know you would like to expand as well, while I also help grow the XYZ of this

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company. And I am here to learn the speciﬁc holes you might have in those areas and how I am able to ﬁll those gaps.”

Why this is a good answer (of course insert your particular industry for XYZ and your speciﬁcs), but it is basically saying “how can I be helpful?” My favorite phrase is “How can I be most helpful?” and it’s something I often don’t hear enough in interviews. I say it all the time, I even say it at the end of conversations, because it reminds the other side that I want to be of service and I’m not just there to brag about myself. In interviews, this answer also creates a story of your journey. It doesn’t just regurgitate your résumé; it gives a narrative and a motivation behind your moves — past, present, and future.

Another question is: “What are your biggest weaknesses?”

A bad answer is: “I’m such a perfectionist it’s scary.”

Why that’s a bad answer? What’s scary is that almost everyone gives that exact answer to this question.

A good answer is: “My biggest weakness is that I get so focused on my work that I keep my head down too much. To combat that, I have been more mindful of reaching out to different groups within the company, especially one like this one that has an open ﬂoor plan and an open door policy. I’ve also really been able to build self-awareness around this issue which I think is one of my biggest assets in learning and growing in this ﬁeld.”

Why this is a good answer: Everyone stumbles around when they get asked this question. You think you’re going to kill your chance, you worry that you are going to show them why you suck so much and how weak you are and they’re not going to hire you. Well...you won’t! The key to answering this question, aside from not saying you’re a perfectionist, is to be really open and really honest but then pivot over to a strength that ties in really nicely with the company you are interviewing for. And, you also get big brownie points by playing up your self-awareness of those weakness because that is a great quality of any employee (I can tell you from trying to ﬁnd those folks myself). You can take this question

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as an opportunity to express a desire to learn and grow and really be a team player, which are both strong qualities for any candidate in any industry.

The biggest differentiator between the “bad” answers and the “good” answers are you. And by that I mean, the bad answers are the ones where you talk mostly about you. This is not the time or place for sharing your entire life story. Remember, you are on an interview for a job, not on a date. The good answers are the ones where you talk mostly about how you can be helpful to them.

The “me, me, me” stuff or the “sell, sell, sell” stuff will get you in the “no, no, no” pile fast.

NAILING THE PHONE CALL

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Sometimes you will encounter a situation where the only option for the interview is a phone interview. I know, I know, you are so much better in the ﬂesh, right, now with your badass boss communication skills that you learned in the last module.

Well, phone interviews happen, especially if an employer is incredibly busy or if you are in a different city and there’s no money to ﬂy you out.

These possibilities are good to keep when you’re doing a phone interview, because if your interviewer is pressed for time (like they have a high-pressure job of their own), then don’t be long-winded to try and overcompensate for your lack of face time. The busier they are, the faster they are trying to get to the point, and be pointed then about your sound bites–even if you have to rehearse them. Make sure they’re bite-sized little answers and pack a punch, you can practice the in advance.

Because if they can’t schedule an in-person interview because they are pressed for time and need to hire immediately, you should also emphasize the fact that you are ﬂexible with time, which if you are not currently employed, you should conveniently have a whole lot of time. If you are employed and don’t have the time or ﬂexibility, try to highlight the

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strong relationship you have with your boss who is a champion of your next move in order to assure your new boss that the transition process can be quick and easy.

If the reason they are doing a phone interview is because they can’t afford to ﬂy you out, be really mindful that this is a company that counts their pennies. During the interview, try to incorporate your love for being scrappy and that you’ve always found ways to do really big things on the cheap in the past. Emphasize the fact that you are super low maintenance at work (even if you are rather high maintenance, just remind them that you’re low maintenance) .

Also, keep in mind a few basic things:

- Answer the phone. I know this sounds obvious, but it blows my mind how many people are in bad reception areas, or are in the other room, the car or whatever and need to call the interviewer back. This just shows right off the bat that you’re unreliable.

- Figure out who’s calling who. There have been times that I’ve had calls set on my calendar that say that so-and-so is calling me to initiate the call, and then nobody calls. Everytime that happens, it is beyond annoying. They think that I’m supposed to call and then they don’t end up calling, it leaves a bad taste of incompetence in my mouth. To try and avoid this problem, you can use a free conference calling service, there are a bunch of dial-ins out there, so that you’re both calling into the exact same number.

Finally, remember that follow up is everything.

Immediately after a job interview, you should send a quick note to the effect of:

Hello Mrs. Recruiter Woman,

It was such a pleasure meeting you today. I loved hearing more about your endeavors in XYZ and discussing how I could be helpful in growing that area of your business.

I think this is a mutually beneﬁcial ﬁt and I look forward to continuing the conversation.

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Warmest, Nicole with my contact information.

It seems almost too simple, but it works. A thoughtful follow-up that stresses how you can be helpful to them and shows that you were listening reminds them why you are the exact person for the job. This will set you apart from the equally impressive candidate who did not think to follow up or made the follow up note all about how badly they wanted the job (which means they just won’t get it).

BONUS CONTENT: THE REST OF THE ASA AARONS INTERVIEW

Asa: You know, my internships were considered some of the best in the building, because instead of sticking the interns, you know, clipping, or answering phones or something like that, I always took you guys out with me, you did standups, practiced voiceovers, all of those things. You know I don’t know if you remember much of that.

Nicole: So how did you ultimately get my hired?

Asa: I think when they called me and said “You know, we can’t do this because she’s 17,” I said “She’s gonna be 18 next week.” And that was that.

Nicole: I love that. That’s amazing. No, I was nervous about applying, I remember, because it said that you had to be a junior or a senior, and I was a freshman, and I said...but I want to work at the number one media market at the number one station with the number one reporter. And the worst thing that could happen is that they say no, or...that I go to jail for breaking into 30 Rock. It could have turned out really bad though!

Asa: ...But it didn’t. And like I say, you showing up there, and just, you know, “Hire me and I’ll tell you how I got in,” that was just really gutsy, you know?

Nicole: Thank you.