razgovarala interviewed by

Ana Dana Beroš

IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI Arhitektura u pokretu

IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI Architecture in Movement

fotografije photographs by Ljubaznošću / Courtesy la Biennale di Venezia – Francesco Galli (fg) Rem Koolhas (rk) Ljubaznošću / Courtesy of Fondazione – Attilio Maranzano(pam) Ljubaznošću / Courtesy of oma (o) Ljubaznošću / Courtesy of oma – Giorgio De Vecci (gdv); Phil Meech (pm) Alberto Moncada (am); Agostino Osio (ao) Marco Beck Peccoz (mbp) Philippe Ruault (pr); Andrea Sarti (as) Miguel Taborda (mt) portreti portraits Marco de Swart

138 oris, broj 89, godina 2014 oris, number 89, year 2014 IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Intervju IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Interview 139 ORIS — Nalazimo se iznad veličanstvene makete prostora ORIS — Standing here right above the marvellous Mondi- Venecijanskog bijenala, pod nazivom Monditalia, duljine od talia scale , in its true length of approximately 300 oko 300 metara. Dakle, započnimo ovaj intervju pitanjem o m, let us start the interview by explaining the spatial con- prostornoj koncepciji ove izložbe koja se održava u prosto- cept behind this exhibition, currently taking place at the rima užare venecijanskog Arsenala. ¶ Ippolito Pestellini Corderie of the Arsenale in Venice. ¶ Ippolito Pestellini Laparelli — Bijenale arhitekture je već otpočeo te nema Laparelli — Obviously, the Architecture Biennale already ništa novoga za priopćiti, no prilika suradnje s ostalim slič- began, so there is nothing new to tell. However, the opportu- nim dvogodišnjim događanjima poslužila nam je kao nadah- nity to collaborate with other Biennales was an inspiration for nuće za prostornu organizaciju. Mislim da je maketa prilično spatial organization. I think the model is quite clear because jasna jer od početka do kraja užarnice vidite kako je uređen from the beginning to the end of the Corderie one can see how odnos između različitih projekata, među kojima su i filmske the relationship between the projects is regulated, including projekcije pa na osnovnoj razini imate dojam kao da postoji movie projections, so that on a basic level one has a feeling that master plan. Taj sustav prikaza istraživačkog projekta podi- there is a master plan at work here. The system of displaying jeljen je u pozornice za ostale bijenale. Kada su neispunjeni, research projects is broken by stages introduced for other Bien- ti prostori slave prazninu. Kada prolazite prostorom izložbe, nale events. When empty, the stages are a celebration of the a nakon otvaranja nemamo svakodnevna događanja, svakoga void. When you walk through the space - and obviously once the dana, svakoga sata određeni dio strukture je prazan. Zani- exhibition was opened there were no more events every single mljivo je što i ti neispunjeni prostori postaju dijelom izložbe day, every hour - you could find the structure empty. What is i slave sam prostor Arsenala, ali i omogućuju posjetiteljima interesting is that the stages become part of the exhibition, in slobodno kretanje prema gore, pružaju im priliku da iskuse a way they celebrate the Arsenale space, but also allow visitors prostor dvodimenzionalno i trodimenzionalno, da postanu to go up, to turn the experience of space from bi-dimensional to dijelom sveobuhvatne prostorne koreografije. Ovo je izložba three-dimensional, and to be a part of the overall choreography pokreta. Prisutnost tih pozornica omogućuje vam promatranje of space. This is an exhibition of movement. The presence of the performansa u trenutku dok se isti odvijaju, ali i promatranje stages gives you a chance to look at the performances when prostora te ponovni pogled na izložbu u sasvim drugačijem they happen, but also to look at the space, and to look back at svjetlu, jer ljude u kretanju počinjete sagledavati kao dio per- the exhibition in a different way, to look at the people moving formansa i izložbe. Dakle, u svemu tome ima i koreografskog as part of the performance. So it has a bit of a choreographic stava. U prvoj prostoriji nalazi se sustav otvorenih pozor- attitude to it. Every stage has a unique quality; some of them nica koje su okrenute jedna prema drugoj te tako ostvaruju are open, permeable, some of them are closed and protected. neraskidiv međuodnos. Ta se pozornica ponajviše koristila za The entire exhibition is an experiment, and in a way I still do not kazališne predstave, ali na njoj su se održavali i govori, preda- know whether the experiment was successful. In a way, both Razgovarali u Rotterdamu 11. rujna 2014. Interviewed in Rotterdam on 11 September 2014 vanja, videoprojekcije. Svaka pozornica ima vlastitu kvalitetu spatially and in terms of program, we challenged the format of pa su stoga neke otvorene i propusne, druge pak zatvorene i the Biennale, as well as of exhibition space in general. ¶ Ippolito Pestellini Laparelli glavni je kustos središnje ¶ Ippolito Pestellini Laparelli was the chief curator of the cen- zaštićene. Naravno, cijela je izložba svojevrsni eksperiment ORIS — The Arsenale serves as a performing platform for izložbe Monditalia s ovogodišnjeg Venecijanskog bijenala tral exhibition Monditalia at the 2014 Venice Architecture te još uvijek nisam siguran je li taj eksperiment uspješan. Na the other festivals – film, dance, theatre, and music – hap- arhitekture, pod vodstvom izbornika Rema Koolhaasa, te Biennale, led by director Rem Koolhaas. He is representative of određeni smo način, kako prostorno, tako i u vidu programa, pening simultaneously. Is it the first experiment of the kind predstavnik nove generacije arhitekata koja je tradicionalnu the new generation of architects who have replaced traditional sam format Bijenala stavili pred nove izazove, koji se tiču i in the history of the Venice Biennale? ¶ Ippolito Pestellini arhitektonsku praksu zamijenila istraživačkom. Nedavno je architectural practice with research work. He was recently izložbenog prostora općenito. Laparelli — Yes, it is the first time that the five departments postao najmlađi partner u oma-i, vodećem svjetskom uredu made the youngest partner at oma, the world’s leading office ORIS — Arsenal služi kao izvedbena platforma za druge festi- collaborate: The Architecture Department is, naturally, the za arhitekturu, urbanizam i kulturna promišljanja, gdje vodi for architecture, urbanism and cultural analysis and is part of vale – filmske, plesne, kazališne i glazbene, a svi oni odvijaju coordinator, working jointly with the Dance, Theatre, Music istraživački studio amo u Rotterdamu. Područje njihova istra- amo research studio in Rotterdam. Their research work focuses se istovremeno. Je li to prvi eksperiment te vrste u povijesti and Film Departments. The Film Biennale has a permanent živačkog rada, brišući ustaljene granice arhitekture, zalazi u on areas beyond the traditional boundaries of architecture, Venecijanskog bijenala? ¶ Ippolito Pestellini Lapare- presence; it forms the backbone of the exhibition, with the sfere medija, politike, sociologije, tehnologije, mode, postava including media, politics, sociology, technology, , curat- lli — Da, ovo je prvi put da surađuje svih pet odjela: naravno, other departments joining in. We have programmed a series izložbi, izdavaštva i grafičkog dizajna. Upravo je kritičko ing, publishing, and graphic design. The critical knowledge of Odjel za arhitekturu kao koordinator, zatim Odjel za ples, Odjel of live events, workshops, debates, etc. reflecting on multiple poznavanje teritorija u kojima se susreću različite discipline the territory where different disciplines meet is the precondi- za kazalište, Odjel za glazbu i Odjel za filmsku umjetnost. Film- topics, echoing the permanent exhibition. The magic in the preduvjet stvaranja privremene arhitekture, arhitekture koja tion of ephemeral architecture, architecture which is moving, ski bijenale oduvijek je prisutan, on tvori osnovicu strukture exhibition is that when you enter it, at different times of the se kreće, mijenja i nestaje, o kojoj smo razgovarali. changing and disappearing, we have discussed. izložbe u koju se uključuju i ostale izložbe. Isplanirali smo niz year, you always find something different, so the exhibition is

140 oris, broj 89, godina 2014 oris, number 89, year 2014 IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Intervju IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Interview 141 (gdv) (o)

(gdv) has three declinations. In the central pavilion at Giardini we 14. Venecijanski show Elements of Architecture, which focuses on 15 Elements, bijenale arhitekture, Corderie dell’Arsenale, the basic elements of architecture practice – ceiling, window, Monditalia, Italija, 2014. stair, ramp, etc…; that is a fundamental aspect by definition. There is the Absorbing Modernity section of the exhibition, 14th Venice biennale of Architecture, which is fundamental from a different point of view, because Corderie dell’Arsenale, this is the century that has defined us, to an extent. It is a Monditalia, , 2014 century dominated by globalisation and modernity. Different countries absorbed this modernity in different ways. Ulti- mately, Italy was considered one of the fundamental coun- tries: unique because of its richness and history yet it shares common conditions with many other countries - in particular

14. Venecijanski događaja, radionica, diskusija, koje su se bavile nizom raznih različite načine upile tu modernu. U konačnici, Italija se sma- the coexistence of extreme potential with dysfunction and bijenale arhitekture, tema, a odnosile se na stalni postav. Čarolija ove izložbe počiva tra jednom od temeljnih zemalja jer dijeli kako kvalitete tako political turbulence. We thought that looking at Italy would be Corderie dell’Arsenale, Monditalia, u činjenici da kada god dođete, u bilo kojem trenutku tijekom i nefunkcionalnosti; dakle, brojne osobine s mnogim drugim a perfect way to look at the rest of the world. So it is a paradig- Italija, 2014. godine, ovdje ćete uvijek pronaći nešto drugačije. Izložba se zemljama. Naravno, Italija je zbog svoje povijesti sasvim jedin- matic country in that sense. I think this exhibition specifically

uvijek mijenja. Neprestano se mijenja čak i sadržaj koji se pri- stvena. Smatrali smo da bi promatranje Italije bio savršen način is based on a paradox. Here we look into Italy to describe the 14th Venice biennale kazuje na filmskim platnima i pozornicama. Struktura je ta koja of Architecture, 14. Venecijanski Corderie dell’Arsenale, je trajna, a sadržaj je fluidan i s vremenom se mijenja. To je bijenale arhitekture, Monditalia, najbolja prezentacija cijeloga projekta. Corderie dell’Arsenale, Italy, 2014 Monditalia, Italija, ORIS — Monditalia cjelokupni prostor izložbe posvećuje 2014. (as) temi Italije. Kako se ta koncepcija razvila te iznjedrila arhi- tektonsko-istraživačku izložbu kao portret jedne zemlje? 14th Venice biennale ¶ (as) of Architecture, Ippolito Pestellini Laparelli — Pri odgovoru na to Corderie dell’Arsenale, pitanje moramo se vratiti koncepciji Fundamentals. Funda- never the same. Even the contents shown on the screens and Monditalia, Italy, 2014

mentals, naravno, imaju vrlo široku definiciju, a granaju se u on stages are constantly changing. The structure is perma- (as) tri područja. U središnjem paviljonu Giardini prikazujemo Ele- nent, while the content is fluid, changing through time. The ments of Architecture koji se fokusira na 15 temeljnih eleme- project is best represented by a calendar of events. nata arhitektonske prakse – strop, prozor, stepenice, rampa, ORIS — Monditalia dedicates the entire exhibition space to itd... koji su po samoj definiciji temelj svega. Naravno, tu je i a single theme – Italy. How did the concept come about, dio izložbe pod nazivom Absorbing Modernity, koji je s nekog and how did it yield an architectural and exploratory exhibi- drugog gledišta od temeljne vrijednosti, jer je riječ o stoljeću tion which is a portrait of a country? ¶ Ippolito Pestellini koje nas je na neki način definiralo. Riječ je o stoljeću u kojemu Laparelli — In order to reply to this question we need to su zavladale globalizacija i moderna. Različite su zemlje na revisit the concept of Fundamentals. Fundamentals, of course,

142 oris, broj 89, godina 2014 oris, number 89, year 2014 IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Intervju IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Interview 143 često je znao reći da se ovaj Bijenale temelji na istraživačkim pothvatima. Svaka je zemlja dovela svoje istraživačke pro- jekte, a i sam ured je kroz izložbu Elements iznio čisto istra- živanje. Primjerice, talijanski paviljon obično je usredotočen na dizajn, ali mi smo se, u izložbi Monditalia, željeli fokusirati na sustav, to jest ono što dolazi prije dizajna. Dakle, izložba je dokumentaristički pristup Italiji, kroz stvarne primjere i studije. Mi smo odabrali glavne teme istraživanja koje smo smatrali relevantnima u priči o trenutnoj transformaciji Italije: politika, religija, gospodarstvo, tehnologija, mediji, imigracija. Nakon razmjerno duge pripremne faze, izbacili smo sažetak u kojemu smo testirali teme primjernih studija koje smo dotad sakupili. Obično se arhitektonske studije izvode na posto- jećim objektima ili područjima, drugim riječima, mjestima. Iz tog skupa studija izradili smo katalog projekata po poje- dinim temama te ga izdali kao sažetak. Cilj našega projekta bio je na taj način jednostavno ponuditi smjer. Kustosi i svi ostali pozvani pojedinci mogli su se otisnuti u tom smjeru ili

predložiti nešto srodno i koherentno ponuđenim temama, research - for example, in the Italian pavilion the focus is nor- 14. Venecijanski bijenale ali ne nužno u predstavljenom smjeru. Odaslali smo mnoštvo mally on design but but we, in Monditalia, wanted to to focus arhitekture, Centralni paviljon, radna maketa, on the system itself or what precedes design. The exhibition Italija, 2014.

th has, therefore, a documentarist approach to Italy, through 14. Venecijanski bijenale arhitekture, 14 Venice biennale of Architecture, 14th Venice biennale of Centralni paviljon, Elements of Central Pavilion, Elements of actual case studies, and we selected the main topics of this Architecture, Central Architecture, krov, Italija, 2014. Architecture, roof, Italy, 2014 investigation which we deemed relevant for telling a story Pavilion, model in progress, Italy, 2014 (as)

14. Venecijanski promatranja i ostatka svijeta, jer je ona u tom smislu paradi- world, through specific characters of the country. Inevitably (rk) bijenale arhitekture, gmatska. Osobno mislim da se ova izložba temelji na jednom there is also a connection to Venice. We wouldn’t have done Centralni paviljon, Elements of posebnom paradoksu. Promatramo Italiju kako bismo opisali Monditalia if we were not in Venice, for the Venice Biennale. Architecture, prozor, svijet kroz specifične pojedinosti i likove iz te zemlje. Nei- We would have done another country for another Biennale. I Italija, 2014. zbježno se nameće poveznica s Venecijom. Da nismo u Veneciji think the possibility to concentrate part of the energy of the

14th Venice biennale of i da ne radimo Venecijanski bijenale, ne bismo se odlučili za Biennale into the whole country is a big challenge. What the Architecture, Central izložbu Monditalia. Za neki drugi bijenale odabrali bismo neku exhibition probably doesn’t succeed in communicating is a Pavilion, Elements of drugu zemlju. Velik je izazov i nešto potpuno novo usmjeriti sort of homogeneity that would help the reading of the whole Architecture, window, Italy, 2014 dio energije ovog Bijenala u cijelu zemlju.Izložba vjerojatno thing, from the beginning to the end. It is very exciting, even nije uspjela prenijeti svojevrsnu homogenost koja bi doprinijela chaotic in a way, but that is probably also its problem. (fg) tumačenju predstavljenog od početka sve do samoga kraja. ORIS — Differently from previous Biennales that showcased Dakle, izložba je vrlo uzbudljiva, na neki način čak i kaotična, established architectural practices in manifesto exhibitions ali upravo u tome počiva i njezin temeljni problem. at the Arsenale, you invited an army of researchers and aca- 14. Venecijanski bijenale ORIS — Za razliku od prethodnih bijenala koji su u izložbe- demics of very diverse backgrounds. What kind of an under- arhitekture, Centralni paviljon, Elements of nim prostorima Arsenala predstavljali ugledne arhitektonske taking was it to orchestrate so many people involved in the Architecture, strop, prakse, Vi ste pozvali niz istraživača i akademika vrlo različi- content production? ¶ Ippolito Pestellini Laparelli — It Italija, 2014. tih uvjerenja. Kako ste se nosili s organizacijom tolikog broja was orchestrated on two levels. One level was collaboration 14th Venice biennale of pojedinaca uključenih u proizvodnju sadržaja? ¶ Ippolito with the other Biennales– Dance, Theater, Cinema and Music, Architecture, Central Pestellini Laparelli — Organizaciju smo provodili na dvije because they all tried to respond to the topic of Monditalia. Pavilion, Elements of razine. Na jednoj razini surađivali smo s ostalim bijenalima – Rem Koolhaas often said that it was a Biennale based on rese- Architecture, ceiling, Italy, 2014 Odjelom za ples, kazalište, glazbu i filmsku umjetnost jer su arch endeavour. Each country contributed with its research se svi pokušavali prilagoditi temi Monditalije. Rem Koolhaas project. The office, through the Elements, brought out pure (as)

144 oris, broj 89, godina 2014 oris, number 89, year 2014 IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Intervju IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Interview 145 of the current transformation of Italy – its politics, religion, economy, technology, media, immigration. We had a relatively long preparation phase before launching the brief wherein we tested the topics of the case studies that we had collected. Usually, architectural case studies are conducted on the exi- sting buildings, or areas, places, in other words. Out of this collection of case studies we made a catalogue of projects per topic, and there was the brief we sent out. Our goal was to simply suggest directions. Curators, as well as all the peo- ple we invited, could have taken that direction, or proposed a similar topic, which need not have, necessarily, taken the presented direction. We sent out a large number of invitations to people who we thought would be interested. We selec- ted 41 case studies, which were coupled by 82 movies in the exhibition, thus we had two movies per project. The majority of the people who participated were relatively young; people in their 30s and 40s. You could say this is Italy, or Italy in the world, Italy as the world seen through the eyes of a specific generation. We did not only send out the proposals to young

12. Venecijanski pozivnica pojedincima za koje smo smatrali da će im nave- people; there were also older groups contacted, or more esta- bijenale arhitekture, deno biti zanimljivo. Na koncu smo odabrali 41 studiju i uz njih blished groups, in some cases. But the proposals that seemed Chronocaos, Italija, 2010. 82 filmska uratka; dakle, dva filma po projektu. Većina sudio- to be the most exciting, the most coherent to the topic, were nika su vrlo mladi ljudi, osobe između 30 i 40 godina. Dakle, all from this very homogenous generation, so we like to think

12th Venice biennale mogli bismo reći da ovdje imamo Italiju, ili svijet u Italiji; Italiju that, in a way, part of the freshness is also related to the res- of Architecture, Chronocaos kao svijet viđenu kroz oči specifične generacije. Pozive nismo ponse to our brief. Monditalia is a generational statement. Italy, 2010 poslali samo mladima, kontaktirali smo i starije, odnosno u ORIS — Can you tell us how did the audience react to the

nekim slučajevima uglednije skupine i organizacije. No, pri- experimental, work in progress, character of the exhibition su prolazili prostorom, naravno uz prilaženje sadržajima poje- the exhibition, and who was in favour of it. Perhaps it is a good 12. Venecijanski (pr) jedlozi koje smo našli najuzbudljivijima i najkoherentnijima s so far? ¶ Ippolito Pestellini Laparelli — It depends on dine instalacije i filma, bili su zapravo ljudi koji rade u muze- sign, to have people who were enthusiastic about it, as well bijenale arhitekture, Chronocaos, temom bili su oni pripadnika ove vrlo homogene generacije a number of things. It is strange to talk about a country while jima. Kustosima je bio zanimljiv format koji je, na određeni as those who claimed it was a failing experiment. Even now Italija, 2010. te stoga smatramo da je za ovu svježinu dijelom zaslužan i in it, so there was a little bit of resistance by Italian critics to način, nov. people keep writing about the exhibition, not only about Mon-

sažetak koji smo predstavili. Monditalia je iskaz generacije. some of the choices that we made. There was a lot of enthu- ORIS — Cijeli Bijenale osmišljen je kao arhitektonska manife- ditalia, but the Fundamentals in general. The fact that there 12th Venice biennale of Architecture, ORIS — Možete li nam reći kako je dosad publika reagirala siasm too, from unexpected places, from certain people in stacija bez autorske arhitekture. Nova generacija stručnjaka is still criticism, or ideas being discussed, is, I think, a value in Chronocaos, na eksperimentalni karakter izložbe? ¶ Ippolito Pestellini England, Germany, or France. Generally, there was no homo- uključena je u tvorbu izložbe Monditalia. A što je s izložbama itself. The exhibition seems very much alive. The people who Italy, 2010 Laparelli — To doista ovisi o raznim stvarima. Neobično geneous response. We made a survey to see who was against Elements of Architecture i Absorbing Modernity, druga dva were most enthusiastic about the space as a whole, aside from (mbp) 12. Venecijanski je govoriti o nekoj zemlji u toj zemlji. Bilo je nešto otpora ključna dijela teme Fundamentals? ¶ Ippolito Pestellini getting to the content of each installation and each movie, bijenale arhitekture, od strane talijanskih kritičara glede nekih naših odabira. No, Laparelli — Prvo moram napomenuti da Rem Koolhaas were actually people involved in museums. Curators were Chronocaos, oma – Proširenje nizozemskog istodobno smo od zaista neočekivanih osoba, primjerice iz nikada nije bio zadovoljan činjenicom da je Bijenale u sklopu interested in the format as it is, in a way, new. parlamenta, Den Haag, Engleske ili od strane jednog francuskog novinara, dobili marketinške odluke odlučio prikazivati samo njegove radove. ORIS — The entire Biennale was conceived as a manifestation Nizozemska, 1978. (13. oduševljene reakcije. Općenito nije bilo homogene reakcije. Neprestano je govorio da je riječ o zajedničkom djelu njega i of architecture without signature architects. The upcoming stoljeće), Italija, 2010. Proveli smo anketu tko je protiv izložbe, a komu se sviđa. njegovih suradnika. Mislim da u suštini ove istraživačke faze generation was involved in the making of Monditalia. And 12th Venice biennale Možda je dobar znak kada istovremeno imate one koju su počiva činjenica da u izložbi poput ove ne možete dodavati what about the Elements of Architecture and the Absorb- of Architecture, oduševljeni i one koji tvrde da je riječ o neuspjelom ekspe- samo svoje izloške. Naravno, on je bio ravnatelj koji je, za ing Modernity exhibitions, the other two crucial parts of the Chronocaos, Dutch Parliament Extention rimentu. Čak i sada pojedinci nam pišu o izložbi, ne samo razliku od prethodnih iskustava, pokušavao podijeliti odgo- Fundamentals? ¶ Ippolito Pestellini Laparelli — First by oma, Den Haag, o izložbi Monditalia nego i o temi Fundamentals općenito. vornost, a to je činio i tijekom godine, prije Bijenala. Smiješno I want to say that Rem Koolhas was not happy with the fact Netherlands, 1978 (13th Sama činjenica da i dalje ima kritika, da se i dalje raspravlja o je što, čini se, sustav i dalje nije spreman na to. Ljudi žele neko that the Biennale, as a result of a marketing decision, would century), Italy, 2010 izložbenim zamislima, predstavlja vrijednost po sebi. Izložba veliko ime, jednostavno ne žele prihvatiti ovakav stav. Izložba only exhibit his works. He insisted that it was a joint work of (o) je itekako živa. Oni koji su pokazali najviše oduševljenja dok Elements je trajna suradnja studija amo, koji ovdje ima fiksnu his, and his associates. I think that the essence of a research

146 oris, broj 89, godina 2014 oris, number 89, year 2014 IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Intervju IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Interview 147 Mislim da je ovo posredno područje based exhibition such as this one, is that you cannot do things da nešto nije moguće. Pobrinuli smo se da smo svi dovoljno on your own. He was, of course, the director, who – unlike koordinirani kako bi različite zemlje koherentno odgovorile na privremene arhitekture, dakle ne the previous Biennales – was trying to share responsibilities, sveoubuhvatnu temu. Cijeli proces omogućila je činjenica da arhitekture već mjesto susreta arhi- and he also did it throughout the entire year before the Bien- su sve zemlje sudionice bile u isto vrijeme na istom mjestu te nale. Funnily enough, the system is not ready for this some- su mogle razmijeniti zamisli i jedna od druge čuti na kakvim tekture s ostalim disciplinama, ono how. People just want a big name; they do not want to accept projektima rade. To je otvorilo i sasvim nove mogućnosti. što uglavnom i najbolje radimo this kind of attitude. Elements were running a collaboration ORIS — Zanimaju me Vaša prethodna iskustva s arhi- between amo – here they have fixed the team of 15 people - tektonskim bijenalima. 2010. godine bili ste jedan od dva and a large number of Harvard students. Actually, the Harvard kustosa izložbe Cronocaos koja se pozabavila zanemarenom studio was transferred to Rotterdam, they were all working on temom očuvanja arhitektonske baštine. Dotad gotovo nitko I think that this intermediate domain the office ground floor, and they would do research in house, nije posvetio pažnju očuvanju baštine, sve od Portoghesi- of ephemeral architecture, so not coordinated by the amo employees, such as James Westcott jeve izložbe Prisutnost prošlosti iz 1980. godine. Možete li and Stephan Petermann. We took a big risk, and we still do not detaljnije objasniti čemu je bio posvećen taj projekt? ¶ Ippo- architecture, but where architecture know whether we have succeeded or not. The Biennale has lito Pestellini Laparelli — Taj projekt temeljio se na meets other disciplines, is what we sometimes been judged as weak, but as a curator Rem also had opažanju da je očuvanje baštine zanemarena tema od samih to run an office of 400 people with his partners in a moment of arhitekata, u pogledu da se očuvanje baštine nalazi na jednoj do mostly and probably best financial crisis.. Coming back to the coordination of the entire strani ljestvice, a arhitektura na sasvim suprotnoj. Namjera Biennale, if you look at the curatorial intervention, either from je bila progovoriti o proturječjima očuvanja baštine, bila ona the office or from Rem to the exhibition, the three parts cor- politička ili znanstvena te jednostavno postaviti neka pitanja. respond to a gradient. One exhibition is fully curated, designed Kao i obično kada je riječ o izložbama, nije bilo odgovora što and researched by amo and Harvard, 100% curated, and that učiniti. Jednostavno smo promotrili te fenomene. U samom is the Elements of Architecture. Monditalia is somehow in temelju te izložbe stajalo je priznanje da su mnogi projekti between, we defined the script; we defined the overall master studija oma-e koji su smatrani najsuvremenijima ili radikal- plan and design, but then we allowed domains of freedom, of nima zapravo bili projekti očuvanja baštine. Posljednji izložbeni ekipu od dvadesetak osoba te velikog broja studenata Har- expression. The third level is Absorbing Modernity where we zid tada je bio posvećen 27 projekata studija oma-e koji su varda. Zapravo je studio s Harvarda prebačen u Rotterdam, launched the topic, and then every country responded as it neupitno bili projekti očuvanja baštine, a prostiru se od palače gdje su svi zajedno radili u prizemlju, a istraživanja su obavljali desired. What was new in the process was that, for the first Fondaco dei Tedeschi, očito projekta očuvanja baštine u naj- unutar kuće, dok su koordinaciju obavljali zaposlenici studija time, there were meetings organized in Venice for all the coun- tradicionalnijem pogledu, preko naše suradnje s Ermitageom ili amo-a, primjerice James Westcoitt i Stephan Petermann. Mi tries. Every country had two opportunities to present to Rem. projekta koji smo radili u libijskoj pustinji, koji predstavlja oču- smo preuzeli ogroman rizik, a još uvijek ne znamo jesmo li No one was diverted from their course by being instructed vanje baštine u kontekstu prirode, pa sve do očuvanja moder- uspjeli ili nismo. Bijenale je katkad procjenjivan kao slab, ali that it was not possible, but we took care of sharing enough nističkih zdanja. Izložba je istražila dio arhiva studija oma-e kao kustos Rem je istodobno morao s partnerima voditi posao coordination in order for the countries to respond coherently te predstavila dio njihovih projekata kroz objektiv očuvanja i brinuti se o 400 zaposlenika u vrijeme financijske krize. No, to the overarching topic. Just by having all the countries at the baštine. Predstavili smo tezu da tendencija očuvanja baštine vratimo se koordinaciji Bijenala. Pogledate li kustoske inter- same time in one place, when they could actually hear from jača kroz posljednja dva desetljeća te da je u srazu s rastućim vencije, od strane ureda ili od strane samog Rema, tri dijela each other what they were doing, made the process more evolucijskim potrebama. Dakle, s jedne se strane nalazi sve odgovaraju gradijentu. Jedna je izložba u potpunosti kusto- interesting and it unlocked new potentials – such as thematic veća i veća domena svijeta, teritorija koji se pokušava očuvati, ska, osmišljena i istražena od strane studija amo i Harvarda, connections across countries looking at similar topics. a s druge je strane potreba za ubrzanim razvojem. Sve veći dakle, stopostotno; to je izložba Elements of Architecture. ORIS — I am interested in your previous experiences on broj građevina zaštićenih od strane unesco-a povezan je s Monditalia je između, mi smo osmislili scenarij, utvrdili smo Architecture Biennales. In 2010, you co-curated Cronocaos političkom namjerom jačanja relevantnosti neke zemlje. Tako općeniti plan dizajna, ali smo dopustili slobodu izražaja. Treća exhibition that dealt with the neglected topic of architectural se, primjerice, unesco i njegovo znakovlje koristi za privlače- razina, vjerojatno najslobodnija, dio je izložbe pod nazivom preservation. Until then, almost no attention was paid to nje većeg broja turista. Također, raste i broj objekata povije- Absorbing Modernity, unutar koje smo predstavili samo temu, the heritage preservation in the Biennales since Portoghesi’s sne baštine. Započeli smo sa spomenicima iz 18. i 19. stoljeća, a onda je svaka od zemalja sudionica odgovorila kako je sma- Presence of the Past in 1980. Can give us more details about trala shodnim. Novina u ovom procesu bila je da smo po prvi the project? ¶ Ippolito Pestellini Laparelli — The pro- puta organizirali sastanke sa svim zemljama sudionicama ovdje ject was based on an observation that preservation itself was

u Veneciji. Svaka je zemlja imala dvije prilike Remu predstaviti a somewhat neglected subject by architects, so that preser- (am) Scenografija Grčkog kazališta u

Syracuse Greek Theatre

što čini, ali nitko nije nikoga pokušao preusmjeriti riječima vation is on one side of the scale, while architecture is on the Sirakuzi, Italija, 2012. Scenography, Italy, 2012

148 oris, broj 89, godina 2014 oris, number 89, year 2014 IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Intervju IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Interview 149 kada je razmišljanje o očuvanju i krenulo, a završili smo na golemim krajobrazima. Dakle, postoji svojevrsno povećanje, kada je riječ o objektima povijesne baštine. Primijetili smo i nešto što ja smatram najzanimljivijim, a to je da se skraćuje vrijeme između onoga što se pokušava očuvati i trenutka oču- vanja, do te mjere da sada očuvanje baštine možete smatrati budućom umjesto retroaktivnom praksom. Izradili smo kartu koja je pokazala da se danas 12 posto svijeta smatra baštinom određenog značaja. No, s druge strane, istražili smo i ono što smo nazvali crnom rupom. Postoji određeno razdoblje u povi- jesti arhitekture koje nastojanja u pogledu očuvanja baštine u potpunosti zanemaruje, a to je razdoblje socijalne arhitekture, odnosno građevina nastalih između 1950-ih i 1990-ih. To su, primjerice, javne zgrade i socijalni stanovi izgrađeni u naletu entuzijazma, kada su arhitekti imali potporu javnog sektora te su radili za javni sektor s namjerom da promijene gradove. A sada su iste te građevine – pri čemu mislimo, na primjer, na Robin Hood Gardens u Londonu ili brojne građevine u Ita-

When Attitudes

liji, zapravo bilo gdje u svijetu – zanemarene, čak ih se i ruši other. The intention was to talk about the contradictions of lažnom ili rekonstruiranom. Savršen primjer toga je Fondaco landscapes, so there is an enlargement of the size of the object ili su jednostavno napuštene. Kao da postoji neka globalna heritage preservation – whether it be political or scientific dei Tedeschi – zgrada koja je doživjela opsežnu rekonstrukciju of preservation. What I consider most interesting is that the Become Form, Bern, Švicarska, 1969. / organizacija čija je zadaća izbrisati to razdoblje arhitekton- – and to simply raise certain questions. There was not, as u 20. stoljeću. Tijekom osmišljavanja izložbe od ključne nam time between what is preserved, and the moment which is Venecija,Italija, 2013.

ske povijesti. Sam naziv izložbe, Cronocaos, bio je povezan always in the exhibition, a precise answer on what to do. We je važnosti bila knjiga Svetlane Boym pod naslovom Buduć- being preserved, is shrinking, to the point that you can now When Attitudes upravo s tom vrstom proturječja. S jedne strane, pokušavamo were observing the phenomena. At the base of that exhibi- nost nostalgije, koja istražuje što je to nostalgija. Nostalgija consider preservation a prospective, instead of a retroactive Become Form, Bern, očuvati zdanja kao što je Sagrada Familia, koja je sasvim lažna. tion was the recognition that a lot of projects of oma which nije objektivan pristup prema prošlosti, ona nije stvarna proš- practice. We made a map which showed that 12% of overall Switzerland, 1969 / Fondaco dei No, to je zdanje pod paskom unesco-a, naravno, zbog aure, were once considered cutting edge or radical, could also be lost, već rekonstruirana prošlost, prošlost naših snova. Danas space of the world is under preservation today. But on the Venice, Italy, 2013 Tedeschi, maketa, dojma kojega mora održati zbog masovnog turizma. Nameće considered projects of heritage preservation. The last wall in živimo u trenutku nostalgije, ne samo u fizičkoj domeni. Sve je other side, we also explored what we call the Blackhole. There Venecija, Italija, (pam) 2010. se zaključak da se očuvanje baštine ne provodi ni objektivno, the exhibition was dedicated to 27 projects of oma which are teže biti moderan. Primjerice, u Italiji je u 1960-ima i 1970-ima is a period in the history of architecture that is neglected by niti prema linearnom povijesnom slijedu. Posrijedi je nostal- clearly projects of preservation – they range from Fondaco još bilo arhitekata koji su uspijevali ostvariti dinamičan odnos preservation, the period of social architecture built between Fondaco dei gičan osjećaj pa se stoga pokušava očuvati sve što se smatra dei Tedeschi, clearly a project of preservation in most tradi- s povijesnim artefaktima. Govorim o Francu Albiniju, Ignaziju 1950s and 1990s – collective public buildings and social hous- Tedeschi, model, Venice, Italy, 2010 spomeničkom vrijednošću. Dakle, pokušavamo očuvati sve tional terms, to our collaboration with Hermitage, and to a Gardelli ili Gruppo . Sada su se zakoni promijenili, promi- ing that was built originally on the wave of enthusiasm when (o) što je povijesno značajno, premda se možda radi o nečemu project we did in the Lybian desert, which is a preservation of jenila su se pravila prema kojima se provodi očuvanje baštine architects were supported by the public sector, and worked a natural context, to the preservation of modernist buildings. te je postalo iznimno teško nešto modernizirati. Bilo kako bilo, for the public sector with the intention to change the cities. The exhibition explored a part of the oma archive, rephras- izložbom smo nastojali otkriti sva ta proturječja predstavljajući Now those very buildings – Robin Hood Gardens in London, ing part of the projects through the filter of preservation. žarišne točke, ali ne dajući rješenje. for example, or many buildings in Italy, or anywhere in the The research unveiled the tendency of preservation to grow ORIS — Smanjuje se distanca između suvremene arhitekture world actually – are being neglected, demolished or simply extensively – particularly evident in the past 2 decades and i mode. Neka partnerstva iz tih dviju disciplina polučila su abandoned due to a very weak public sector. It seems that that somehow clashes with the ever faster need of transfor- uspjeh sličan onomu koji je proizašao iz suradnje studija amo there is a global task force which intends to erase that period mation. So on one side there is larger and larger domain of i Prade. Pritom mislim na revolucionarne projekte kao što je of architectural history. The title Cronocaos was also related to the world, of the territory that is preserved, and on the other Prada Epicentar u New Yorku ili Prada Transformer u Seulu. this kind of contradictory conditions. On one side, we preserve side there is a need for accelerated development. The grow- Kada je počela suradnja Rema i Miuccie Prade? I kako ste se buildings such as La Sagrada Familia, which is completely fake. ing number of unesco sites is often related to the political Vi uključili u to? ¶ Ippolito Pestellini Laparelli — Počet- It is a unesco preserved building, because, of course, the aura, intention to give more relevance to a country, for example, kom 2000. godine. Na samom početku svojega rada u uredu the image that it has to maintain in the face of mass tourism. to use the unesco listing under the world heritage program radio sam na Pradinim projektima pa je to, na neki način, obi- We can say that preservation does not act objectively, or not to attract more tourists. Preservation is also growing in scale, lježilo moju poslovnu prošlost. Od 2010. godine zadužen sam according to a linear course of history. There is a nostalgic including larger and larger territories. We began with monu- za jako raznoliku skupinu projekata, od osmišljavanja setova feeling, so everything that is a monument is being preserved; ments dating back to the 18th and the 19th century when the za snimanja preko modnih revija do izložbi za Pradinu zakladu everything that is historical is preserved, even though it is fake, interest in preservation emerged, and we are now seeing large Fondazione Prada. Taj posao nije nužno povezan s izradom even though it is reconstructed. The Fondaco dei Tedeschi is

150 oris, broj 89, godina 2014 oris, number 89, year 2014 IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Intervju IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Interview 151 Priprema projekata modnih revija a perfect example in this sense- the building in itself has been artefakata, ali jest povezan s nekim nearhitektonskim projek- professional history in the office. Since 2010, I have been in heavily reconstructed in the 20th century.. A book that was tima. Primjerice, publikacijama, grafičkim dizajnom, projektima charge of a very diverse range of projects, from stage sets for za Pradu obično traje oko osam crucial in conceiving the exhibition was Future of Nostalgia by mrežnih stranica. S Pradom smo ostvarili tako čvrstu suradnju. fashion shows to exhibitions for the Fondazione Prada. The tjedana, a sama revija traje jedan Svetlana Boym; it investigates what nostalgia is. Nostalgia is Konstantni pokretač naše suradnje jest dizajn scenografije mod- work is not necessarily related to the construction of arte- not an objective attitude towards our past; that is not real past, nih revija Prade i MiuMiu. Zanimljivo je to iskustvo jer u tom smo facts; it is also related to some non-architectural projects. dan, nakon čega sve rastavljamo. but a reconstructed past, the past of our dreams. We live today trenutku izloženi stvaralačkom procesu njihove tvrtke. Vidimo For example, publications, graphic design, website projects. U tome počiva ljepota takvih in a moment of nostalgia and defitely not just in the physical kako oni rade. Naravno, od prvog dana surađujemo na ovakvim With Prada, we have a consolidated collaboration. The con- domain. It is increasingly difficult to be modern. For example i sličnim projektima. Osmišljanje pozornice za modnu reviju i tinuous engine of such collaboration is the design of the set for projekata in Italy, in the 1960s and the 1970s there were still architects osmišljanje same kolekcije odvijaju se istovremeno i djelujemo Prada and MiuMiu fashion shows. It is an interesting experi- able to have a dynamic relationship with historical artefacts. I prema istim premisama. Konačni rezultat nalikuje na kazališnu ence, because it is the moment when we are really exposed am talking about Franco Albini or Ignazio Gardella or Gruppo predstavu. U kazalištu, naime, izgled pozornice i scenografije to the creative processes of their company. It is where we The projects we bbpr.. And now the laws have changed, the rules of preserva- reakcija je na kostime, kostimografija je reakcija na pozornicu see them work. Obviously, we have worked together on this do for Prada take eight weeks to tion have changed, so it is very difficult to make something i scenografiju, a sve oživljava glazbom i svjetlosnim efektima. kind of projects since day one. The fashion show stage design, modern anyway. The exhibition unveiled this contradiction, Dakle, ono što se predstavlja na modnoj reviji nije sama kolek- and the fashion show collection design, happen at exactly prepare, they last a day, and then by unveiling the focal points, although not giving us a solution. cija, već koncepcija. A koncepcija je najčešće odraz neke speci- the same moment, and we share exactly the same premises. all is taken down. I think that is ORIS — Distance between contemporary architecture and fične ideje nekog muškarca ili žene koju Miuccia Prada i njezin In the end, the result resembles a theatre. In a theatre, set fashion is shrinking. A few partnerships in those disciplines kreativni tim žele predstaviti. Pojedini politički pokreti znatno responds to the costumes, costumes respond to the set, and the beauty of it have been as successful as the one between the amo and su utjecali na neke revije. Na primjer, kada je 2009. izbila velika everything is put together with music and lighting. So, what is Prada. I am thinking of ground-breaking projects such as financijska kriza, radili smo revije koje su bile odraz upravo tog presented through the fashion shows is not a collection itself, the Prada Epicenter in New York and the Prada Transformer stanja. Bile su ozbiljne i sumorne atmosfere. Naš se rad foku- it is a concept. The concept usually reflects a specific idea of in Seoul. When did Rem’s collaboration with Miuccia Prada sirao i na drukčije oblikovanje tradicionalne piste, čak i na sup- a man or a woman that Miuccia Prada and her creative team begin? And how did you get involved? ¶ Ippolito Pestel- tilno propitivanje modnog sustava; ovo se odnosi na pozornicu want to present. Some political moments have significantly lini Laparelli — From the early 2000s. I entered the iz 2011. kada smo 600 ljudi posjeli na savršenu mrežu plavih influenced certain shows. For example, in 2009, during the office working on Prada projects; that somehow marked my kocaka – bio je to demokratičan izgled modne revije, bez razlike big financial crisis, we did shows that reflected on it – it was serious, gloomy, delivering a serious and concentrated atmos- phere. Our work on the shows has also engaged in reshaping Milanski tjedan mode, Prada Man, proljeće/ the mechanics of the traditional runaway or even expressed ljeto 2012., Italija, 2011. subtle polemics to the fashion system – this is the case of a stage developed in 2011, where we sat 600 people on a perfect , Prada Man, ss 2012, grid of blue cubes – a sort of democratic layout for a fashion Italy, 2011 show, with no distinction between first row, second row, and (ao) therefore with no distinction between who is more or less important, etc… It was a small revolution in itself. The fashion show projects we do for Prada take eight weeks to prepare, they last a day, and then all is taken down. I think that is the beauty of it. ORIS — I guess that collaboration with artists, both for amo and Prada, have broadened the experiments beyond fashion. I am referring to the 24-Hour Museum project with the artist Francesco Vezzoli. How would you describe the architectural and social laboratory which was put up for that occasion at Palais d’Iéna in Paris? ¶ Ippolito Pestellini Laparelli — This was a very interesting project because it was not meant to be a museum space; it was a social stage, and during 24 hours it hosted very different activities. The premise of the project was the idea that Museum spaces are as much social places as others locations in a city. We

152 oris, broj 89, godina 2014 oris, number 89, year 2014 IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Intervju IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Interview 153 između prvog, drugog reda. Nije bilo razlike između manje i više colonised the whole ground floor of the Palais D’Iena’, nor- obilazak su nam počele dolaziti umjetničke škole. Na neki conceptual artists such Joseph Beuys. Originally, it took place važnih uzvanika. Bila je to mala revolucija svoje vrste. Priprema mally the house of a section of the French government. In način bio je to performans. in Bern, in Switzerland. This exhibition was about process, projekata modnih revija za Pradu obično traje oko osam tjedana, fact , the main operation here was to make public a place ORIS — 2013. godine održala se neupitno iznimno važna arhi- all the artists were invited to do site specific works there. If a sama revija traje jedan dan, nakon čega sve rastavljamo. U that normally is not public. Then we had a dinner that was tektonska intervencija u pogledu postavljanja izložbe i kusto- they didn’t produce something, then the exhibition wouldn’t tome počiva ljepota takvih projekata. exclusive, and because it was a social experiment, people ske prakse, a to je bila ponovljena slavna izložba pod nazivom show up. The big challenge for us was to reenact something ORIS — Pretpostavljam da je suradnja s umjetnicima, who were not invited were looking in from the outside of a When Attitudes Become Form, kustosa Haralda Szeemanna, that was actually meant to be unique, site specific and from kako studio amo, tako i Pradu, potaknula na eksperimen- large cage. Somehow this kind of comments on the fashion iz 1969. godine. Na kakve ste izazove naišli tijekom postav- a specific moment in time. What we did was the overlapping tiranje i onkraj mode. Mislim na projekt 24-satnog muzeja system; this was a commentary on exclusivity. It became a ljanja ovog rizičnog projekta u prostorima Fondazione Prada of the original building to the new one – a baroque build- s umjetnikom Francescom Vezzolijem. Kako biste opisali party place overnight and the art became the light boxes. u Veneciji? ¶ Ippolito Pestellini Laparelli — Kao što ste ing facing the Venice Canal Grande. We deconstructed the arhitektonsko-društveni laboratorij koji je tom prilikom The day after, because we didn’t unveil that it was a fake rekli, to je modernizirana inačica vrlo slavne izložbe kustosa pictures of the original exhibition found at the Getty research postavljen unutar paviljona Palais d’Iena u Parizu? ¶ Ippo- museum, we had art schools coming to our tours, and we Haralda Szeemanna iz 1969. Originalna izložba predstavila je institute to recreate the original set up. What we rebuilt in lito Pestellini Laparelli — Bio je to vrlo zanimljiv pro- were guiding them around. In a way you could consider it a najrevolucionarnije umjetnike iz tih godina, umjetnike koji su Venice is the Bern Kunsthalle from 1969, not the current one. (pm) jekt jer nije bio postavljen kao muzejski prostor, nego kao 24 hour performance. promijenili način na koji se o umjetnosti razmišlja i kako se We have restaged a moment in time, and we overlapped it

24h Museum, (mbp) (ao) društvena pozornica na kojoj su se tijekom 24 sata odvijala ORIS — In 2013, an important architectural intervention in umjetnost izvodi. Sudjelovali su članovi talijanskog pokreta with the baroque building. The result was a sort of limbo. It Palais d’Iéna, Pariz, raznorazna događanja. Premisa projekta bila je ideja da su terms of exhibiting and curating was undoubtedly the re- Arte Povera, krajobrazni umjetnik Michael Heizer; Bruce Neu- is something in between – not the Venetian building, nor the Francuska, 24. – 25. siječnja 2012. muzejski prostori jednako društveni kao i ostali gradski pro- enactment of the famous 1969 exhibition When Attitudes mann i konceptualni umjetnici poput Josepha Beuysa. Sve se 1969 Kunsthalle. It is a stage, a theater for another form of

stori. Zauzeli smo cijelo prizemlje paviljona Palais D’lena, dio Become Form curated by Harald Seemann. What were the odvilo u švicarskom Bernu. Tema izložbe bio je proces, a svi su representation. Overall I think this was a dubious operation in 24h Museum, Palais francuskog parlamenta jer nam je glavni cilj bio pretvoriti challenges of putting on this peculiar borderline project at the umjetnici bili pozvani da na licu mjesta izrade djela specifična fact. It is really critical to replicate something that was actually d’Iéna, Paris, France, 24 – 25 January 2012 nešto što nije javni prostor u javni prostor. Zatim smo održali Fondazione Prada in Venice? ¶ Ippolito Pestellini Lapa- za tu lokaciju. Ako ne bi ništa izradili, izložba se ne bi održala. all process based. I had the impression that we musified some- ekskluzivnu večeru, a s obzirom da je posrijedi bio društveni relli — Like you said, this is the re-edition of a very famous Najveći izazov bio je upravo ponoviti nešto što je trebalo biti thing that originally was not meant to be a museum, some- eksperiment, nepozvani su gledali unutra s vanjske strane show curated by Harald Szeemann in 1969. The original show jedinstveno, specifično za lokaciju i specifično za određeni tre- thing that was meant to be alive. If you look into the archival kaveza. Bilo je ludo. No, malo i nalik uobičajenim postavkama was staging some of the most radical and revolutionary art- nutak u vremenu. Odlučili smo se na preklapanje originalnog photos of the exhibition, you realize it was about constantly modnog sustava. Postalo je to mjesto zabave u kojemu se ists of those years, artists who were changing the way art prostora izložbe s novim, dekonstruirali smo arhivske slike kako negotiating spaces and ideas between artists; everything was umjetnost pretvorila u svjetlosnu kutiju za plesače. Sljedećeg was conceived and made. So from several exponents of the bi iznova stvorili potpuno jednak izgled izložbe, ali na nov način, moving while happening close to each other. Now, because dana, budući da nismo otkrili da je riječ o lažnom muzeju, u Arte Povera in Italy to Michael Heizer, Bruce Neumann and jer se ova održala u Kunsthalleu iz 1969., ne današnjoj zgradi. of the pressure of art market, the artist tends to be alone

154 oris, broj 89, godina 2014 oris, number 89, year 2014 IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Intervju IPPOLITO PESTELLINI LAPARELLI, Interview 155 Osmišljanje pozornice za The fashion show stage design, and modnu reviju i osmišljanje same the fashion show collection design, kolekcije odvijaju se istovremeno i happen at exactly the same moment, djelujemo prema istim premisama. and we share exactly the same Konačni rezultat nalikuje na premises. In the end, the kazališnu predstavu result resembles a theatre

Stvorili smo novi trenutak u vremenu i preklopili ga s original- with his space, in total isolation – his product being the most nim. Naravno da je rezultat bio svojevrsni limb. Nešto između, important, and very rarely engaging with the rest. The political ne venecijanska zgrada niti Kunsthalle iz 1969., već pozor- dimension seems to be lost. wabf 1969/2013 ultimately aimed nica, kazalište za drugu vrstu prikaza. Po mom mišljenju cijeli to unveil this fundamental difference between the state of art pothvat bio je dvojben. Iznimno je teško replicirati nešto što je and of the artists now and then, by sharing knowledge and bilo temeljeno na procesu. Imao sam osjećaj da smo pretvorili archive materials about a crucial moment of contemporary u muzej nešto što nije muzej, nešto što bi trebalo biti živo. art history. Pogledate li originalne slike s izložbe, vidite kako se radilo o ORIS — Now that you have demonstrated such a complex konstantnom pregovaranju umjetnika o prostoru i idejama; sve section of your oma/amo body of work, does it make sense to se odvijalo u njihovoj neposrednoj blizini. Sada, zbog zahtjeva ask about your favourite architectural or intellectual domain? tržišta umjetninama, umjetnici moraju biti sami u svom pro- ¶ Ippolito Pestellini Laparelli — In a way oma is a beau- storu te je stoga bilo teško ostvariti njihovu interakciju. Čini se tiful office, because it allows you to be who you want to be. da je izgubljena politička dimenzija. wabf 1969./2013. pokušao There is that kind of freedom. It is not the kind of office where je otkriti temeljnu razliku između stanja umjetnosti te umjet- you walk in and are told: This is the way we do things here. nika tada i sada, dijeljenjem znanja i arhivskih materijala o ključ- Obviously there is a little bit of that, but there is also the free- nom trenutku suvremene povijesti umjetnosti. dom to be who you are, and to do what you want to do. And I ORIS — Nakon što ste demonstrirali tako kompleksnu dje- think that is an extreme luxury, a fantastic aspect of the office. latnost studija oma/amo, ima li uopće smisla priupitati Vas If you look at the collection of people working under every koja Vam je omiljena arhitektonska ili intelektualna domena? partner, they are completely different. There is a huge diversity ¶ Ippolito Pestellini Laparelli — Na svoj je način oma also in the typology of partners. I work with people who are prekrasno radno mjesto jer vam omogućuje da budete sve što typically very young, a lot of non-architects, simply because I želite. Tu je ta vrsta slobode. Nije to ured u koji uđete pa vam deal with projects that require that kind of population. I think kažu: Mi ovdje radimo na ovaj način. Naravno, ima i toga, ali the strongest quality of Rem is that he can relate to all this postoji i sloboda da budete tko jeste i da radite što želite. diversity, and he can intelligently address it. I cannot say what Mislim da je to krajnji luksuz, ekstreman aspekt rada u tom I like the most, because precisely this possibility to be trans- uredu. Pogledate li pomnije skupinu ljudi koja radi za pojedine versal to all of this, from amo to oma, is what I like the most. partnere, uvidjet ćete da je riječ o sasvim različitim osobama. Raznolikost je golema, kao i tipologija partnera. Osobno, naj- češće radim s vrlo mladim osobama, a velik broj njih uopće nisu arhitekti, jednostavno zato što projekte želim pogurati u nekom specifičnom smjeru. Mislim da je Remova najsnažnija kvaliteta to što se može povezati sa svom tom raznolikošću Miu Miu, proljeće/ljeto 2015., i inteligentno se njome pozabaviti. Dakle, ne mogu vam reći Pariz, Francuska, 2014. što najviše volim jer volim upravo tu mogućnost poprečnog Miu Miu, ss 2015, Paris, presjeka svega, od amo-a do oma-e. France, 2014. (mt)

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