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Public Accounts Committee S T A N D I N G C O M M I T T E E O F T Y N W A L D C O U R T O F F I C I A L R E P O R T R E C O R T Y S O I K O I L B I N G V E A Y N T I N V A A L P R O C E E D I N G S D A A L T Y N PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE AUDIT ADVISORY DIVISION HANSARD Douglas, Wednesday, 23rd September 2020 PP2020/0172 PAC-AAD, No. 1/20 All published Official Reports can be found on the Tynwald website: www.tynwald.org.im/business/hansard Published by the Office of the Clerk of Tynwald, Legislative Buildings, Finch Road, Douglas, Isle of Man, IM1 3PW. © High Court of Tynwald, 2020 STANDING COMMITTEE, WEDNESDAY, 23rd SEPTEMBER 2020 Members Present: Chairman: Hon. J P Watterson SHK Mr L L Hooper MHK Mrs C L Barber MHK Mrs J P Poole-Wilson MLC Clerk: Mrs J Corkish Assistant Clerk: Mr S Wright Contents Procedural ................................................................................................................................... 3 EVIDENCE OF Mr Stephen Hind, Director, Audit Advisory Division ............................................... 3 The Committee sat in private at 4.51 p.m. ................................................................................. 35 __________________________________________________________________ 2 PAC-AAD/19-20 STANDING COMMITTEE, WEDNESDAY, 23rd SEPTEMBER 2020 Standing Committee of Tynwald on Public Accounts Audit Advisory Division The Committee sat in public at 2.30 p.m. in the Legislative Council Chamber, Legislative Buildings, Douglas [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Procedural The Chairman (Mr Speaker): Good afternoon and welcome to this public meeting of the Public Accounts Committee. I am Juan Watterson, Speaker of the House of Keys, Chairman of the Committee. With me are Mr Laurie Hooper MHK, Vice-Chairman, Mrs Clare Barber MHK and Mrs Jane Poole-Wilson MLC; unfortunately, Mr Robertshaw and Ms Edge are not able to join us 5 today. The topic today is the role of the Isle of Man Government’s Audit Advisory Division, and we also hope to touch on how this differs from the work of an Auditor General. We have invited Stephen Hind, the Director of that Division, to join us today. EVIDENCE OF Mr Stephen Hind, Director, Audit Advisory Division Q1. The Chairman: We welcome you, Mr Hind. Perhaps you could tell us a little bit about your 10 role and the work that your Division does. Mr Hind: Yes, good afternoon, and thank you for inviting me to give evidence. I have been Director of Audit Advisory since 2015. In terms of a summary of what the Audit Advisory Division is set up to do, bringing it back to 15 core statute we basically provide a shared service to designated bodies, as designated under the Treasury Act, in order to enable them to fulfil their statutory obligations under the Audit Act, which requires them to maintain a system of internal audit. We effectively provide a shared service to those designated bodies in relation to that statutory responsibility. In addition, the Division is also providing core support to the Treasury in relation to some of its core 20 responsibilities under the Treasury Act to supervise and control all the financial activity across the Government portfolio. Q2. The Chairman: How well do you think Audit Advisory Division works? How do you assess your own performance? 25 Mr Hind: I think inevitably the answer is ‘good, but could be improved’. As other parts of Government know, ‘Who watches the watchman?’ is often a question. Part of good practice in __________________________________________________________________ 3 PAC-AAD/19-20 STANDING COMMITTEE, WEDNESDAY, 23rd SEPTEMBER 2020 internal audit is to actually commission an external review, completely independent in terms of how well the quality aspect of the Division is performing in terms of international standards on 30 internal auditing. Q3. The Chairman: I am conscious that you produce a service delivery plan every year – and you have provided us with a copy of that – so you do regularly assess yourself against your own plan to see how well you did? 35 Mr Hind: Yes, absolutely. Obviously as a Division we do put together a service delivery plan. A core part of that is an audit programme in terms of planned work that we are hoping to deliver in the year. As part of my management of the Division I will have monthly meetings with my management 40 team. I also have a quarterly review with the Chief Financial Officer in relation to the performance of the Division itself. Those bodies where we have a service level agreement and recharge for services … We actually have two service level agreements in place in relation to the non-revenue-funded Statutory Boards, Manx Utilities and Isle of Man Post. Part of that is an annual report to those audit 45 committees in those bodies. We have quarterly review meetings with the audit committees in those bodies. I guess the whole review of our performance culminates in relation to an annual report that I produce primarily as a part of the Statement on Internal Control or the support of that process. The Statement on Internal Control is ultimately published within the Government Financial 50 Statements and is subject to external audit with the external auditors. Q4. The Chairman: The last external review you sent a copy of was 2015. From what we have seen, that was quite a brief document. It was not massively complimentary, but this was at about the time you were starting as Chief Internal Auditor. Have there been significant changes since 55 that last external assessment? Mr Hind: Yes. As the phrase goes, ‘a new broom …’ I certainly made some changes in terms of how the Division was structured. I effectively introduced a structure which is split into two teams, not equal teams in terms of numbers of staffing: one part to focus primarily on internal audit 60 assignments and another, the smaller part of the team, to deliver more financial governance assurance and start working up and responding in relation to anti-fraud strategy and aspects like that. That, I think, has changed some of the structure. Some of the criticism in that 2015 report – it was literally just prior to my appointment – was on some of the reporting lines in terms of the Division, and certainly I think that restructure 65 addressed those issues in particular. Q5. The Chairman: I am not sure whether that report … It was not clear whether it was done in terms of assessing compliance with the Institute of Internal Auditors’ standards. It seemed to be a pretty generic report about what you did and how you did it, rather than looking at 70 compliance with the standards. The 2011 standards document does state that you work to the International Standards for the Professional Practice of Internal Auditing, but that 2015 report does not seem to reference those at all. Was it a different style of review? Mr Hind: It was commissioned, as I said, just prior to my appointment, so I am not entirely 75 familiar with the scope of what was actually commissioned in terms of that, but you are right, a standard EQA, as we would call it – external quality assessment – would be referenced back to compliance with those standards. __________________________________________________________________ 4 PAC-AAD/19-20 STANDING COMMITTEE, WEDNESDAY, 23rd SEPTEMBER 2020 Q6. The Chairman: And in terms of the terms of reference for the next assessment, that is 80 specifically referenced in there, that it is an external quality assessment review, so it will look at the files that you have produced and see whether they are compliant with the standards? Mr Hind: Yes. Certainly my understanding is part of the scope, having seen some of the working papers in relation to that 2015 review, was absolutely looking at the review of files and compliance 85 with our own internal standard in terms of that. I have certainly seen papers in relation to, for example, management reviews not being signed off appropriately, or some such. Q7. The Chairman: In terms of the International Standards for the Professional Practice of Internal Auditing, those technical standards are not referred to in your reports. They are normally 90 in internal audit reports. I understood that internal audit was done in compliance with these standards. It is often a part of advice just to say how the audit work has been done, in what sort of framework, and the internal audit reports do not actually reference that they are done in compliance. Is it that they are not done in compliance with these audit standards, or is it just that you do not say that they are? 95 Mr Hind: I would hope it is that they are done in compliance with the audit standards. They are absolutely core to everything that we are doing and the operational procedures that we have in place. My understanding of that comment is that that is actually an optional issue to put into an audit report and it is more of an issue to state if you are not complying with the internal audit 100 standards in the delivery of a report. That is my … in terms of the individual audit assignments, absolutely. Q8. The Chairman: You also mentioned in your assessment the Statement on Internal Control and the report that you produce to inform the Chief Financial Officer when he expresses his 105 opinion in the Financial Statements about the adequacy of internal controls and the framework. The report that you do, of which again, kindly, you have sent us a copy – it is the Isle of Man Government Risk Review SRQ Analysis – is a document that is ‘internal use only’ and restricted.
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