20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 1/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Procedural Matters (Open Session) Page 1
1 Special Tribunal for Lebanon
2 In the case of The Prosecutor v. Ayyash, Badreddine, Merhi,
3 Oneissi, and Sabra
4 STL-11-01
5 Presiding Judge David Re, Judge Janet Nosworthy, Judge Walid Akoum, and
6 Judge Nicola Lettieri - [Trial Chamber]
7 Thursday, 20 November 2014 - [Trial Hearing]
8 [Open Session]
9 --- Upon commencing at 10.09 a.m.
10 [The witness takes the stand]
11 THE REGISTRAR: The Special Tribunal for Lebanon is sitting in an
12 open session case of the Prosecutor versus Ayyash, Badreddine, Merhi,
13 Oneissi, and Sabra, case number STL-11-01.
14 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Good morning. We are sitting to continue
15 with the evidence of Mr. Hamade.
16 Good morning to you --
17 THE WITNESS: Good morning, Your Honour.
18 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: -- Mr. Hamade. I trust that you are well
19 refreshed and ready to continue with your evidence.
20 THE WITNESS: Yes, thank you, Your Honour.
21 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: All right. Before we get to your evidence,
22 I'll just note the appearances for the day.
23 And for the Prosecution we have Mr. Cameron and Ms. Bari. For
24 the Legal Representatives of the Victims, Mr. Haynes and
25 Ms. Abdelsater-Abusamra. For Mr. Ayyash Mr. Hannis is here, Mr. Edwards
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 2/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 2 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 is for Mr. Badreddine, Mr. Roberts for Mr. Sabra, Mr. Larochelle for
2 Mr. Oneissi, Madam Le Fraper for Mr. Merhi. And there are three
3 representatives of the Defence Office, including Mr. Roux, in the court.
4 Mr. Cameron, are you ready to proceed directly to -- to continue
5 with Mr. Hamade's testimony?
6 MR. CAMERON: Yes, Your Honour.
7 WITNESS: MARWAN HAMADE [Resumed]
8 Examination by Mr. Cameron: [Continued]
9 Q. Good morning, Mr. Hamade.
10 A. Good morning, sir.
11 Q. When we last spoke you were providing the Tribunal with a
12 description of --
13 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Cameron, I'm terribly sorry.
14 I'm sorry to interrupt you. I neglected to mention a moment ago
15 that the Chamber is sitting today in the absence of Judge Braidy under
16 Rule 26(A). Judge Braidy is unwell and unable to sit with us today. The
17 remaining Judges of the Chamber have decided to continue with the hearing
18 in her absence today. So just to make that quite clear.
19 Please continue.
20 MR. CAMERON:
21 Q. Yesterday, Mr. Hamade, you had provided the Tribunal with a
22 description of what had occurred in the parliamentary session of
23 September the 3rd, 2004, relating to the discussion of the constitutional
24 amendment to Article 49, permitting the extension of President Lahoud's
25 term from six years to in effect nine years. Do you recall that?
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 3/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 3 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. And following that session in Parliament, what were your next
3 steps in a political sense as a member of the Democratic Gathering or
4 bloc?
5 A. We took several steps to express our indignation and our refusal
6 of this imposed re-election. We decided to submit our resignations as
7 ministers of economy and trade, myself; of culture, Mr. Ghazi Aridi; and
8 of displaced persons, Mr. Abdullah Farhat. And we took an appointment to
9 remit these resignations from Mr. Hariri, who returned -- who went away
10 again for the weekend in Europe and returned in the beginning of the
11 week. And I do recall that on Wednesday, after a meeting Tuesday at the
12 house of Mr. Jumblatt of the Democratic Gathering, we went to Mr. Hariri
13 and I presented the letter of resignation, Mr. Aridi in his, and
14 Mr. Farhat, his letter, and I made a short statement when we went out
15 where I expressed the reasons of our resignation.
16 MR. CAMERON: Now, if I could ask for the following document to
17 be shown to the witness, which appears at positions 12 and 13 of the
18 Prosecution's queue. It's a document dated the 8th of September, 2004,
19 and it's an article from An-Nahar newspaper referring to the resignation
20 of Mr. Hamade and others.
21 The document was an extract from a larger set of eight An-Nahar
22 newspaper articles with the collective ERNs 60235629 to 60235642, which
23 was tendered in the Prosecution's motion of the 21st of October under
24 Rule 154, appearing in annex A1.6, row 2, and listed in annex B, row 351,
25 to be added to the Rule 91 list.
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 4/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 4 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 The ERN number of the particular document is 60235631 to 632.
2 Q. Do you see the document before you, sir?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And you'll note that on the first page there is a date of
5 September 7th, 2004?
6 A. Yes.
7 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Is there any objection from the Defence to
8 this document being received into evidence?
9 MR. CAMERON: I read out the wrong ERN number, I'm afraid. I'm
10 very sorry about that. It does appear at positions 12 and 13, but the
11 ERN -- the correct ERN number is 60235633 to 634. It is an extract
12 from --
13 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: I asked a moment ago if there is any
14 objection from the Defence. It's the subject of a motion from the
15 Prosecutor to add it to their exhibit list.
16 Is this one of these documents that was also originally on the
17 list and then accidentally omitted at a later point? Are these in the
18 same category as the same documents yesterday?
19 There being no voiced objection, the Chamber will grant the
20 application to add it to the exhibit list. And the document will become
21 Exhibit P312.
22 The document has the headline, it's an information index --
23 information item: "Boueiz, Hamadeh, Aridi and Farhat have resigned, and
24 the new Government after the Hariri's tour; Jumblatt to An-Nahar: Taif
25 is finished, and we have gone into a presidential system," and the date
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 5/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 5 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 is the 7th of September, 2004.
2 MR. CAMERON: I could enter that document, but I'd like to start
3 again, please. And it's a document it was -- we got through the similar
4 provenance. It's one of three documents I could enter, I've decided just
5 to enter the third document for the sake of economy. That document --
6 the ERN starts 60235637, and it appears before you now. It's a document
7 dated the 8th of September, 2004, and it's an article from An-Nahar
8 newspaper. I'm sorry for the confusion.
9 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Do you wish to switch the other document for
10 that one?
11 MR. CAMERON: Yes, Your Honour.
12 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Okay.
13 It's a different document. I take it that the Defence takes the
14 same position of mute nodding in relation to receiving it into evidence.
15 Okay.
16 The real Exhibit P312 will be the one the Prosecutor just
17 described and not the document of the 7th of September, 2004.
18 MR. CAMERON:
19 Q. Now, do you see that one in front of you, Mr. Hamade?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. And you can see that the beginning of the text reads:
22 "The Minister of the Economy and Trade, Marwan Hamadeh, the
23 Minister of Culture, Ghazi Aridi, and the Minister for Refugee Affairs,
24 Abdullah Farhat, officially tendered their resignations yesterday to the
25 Prime Minister, Rafik Hariri."
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 6/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 6 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 That would be the 7th of September. Is that your recollection?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. And the text continues to say that after a meeting held at
4 Quraitem which lasted for half an hour, you then made some remarks. Was
5 the meeting at the Quraitem with Rafik Hariri?
6 A. Yes, of course. He was the prime minister and we had to remit or
7 submit our resignations to him.
8 Q. Okay. Now, you had voted against his position in Parliament on
9 the September the 3rd, and was there any difficult feeling among you as a
10 result of your position and his position being different?
11 A. No, sir, because this was consistent with what we had agreed upon
12 on the 25th -- on the 26th of August, when Mr. Hariri returned from
13 Damascus and when, in fact, we had advised him to go along with the
14 re-election, but we had told him that we could cope with the refusal and
15 that we would act in consequence.
16 Q. And the newspaper article at continuation of that page ending in
17 637 sets out the texts of the letters of recommendation. And they read
18 at --
19 A. Resignations.
20 Q. And they read as follows:
21 "Mr. Prime Minister, in keeping with the principled position of
22 the Democratic Gathering in opposition to an extension of the term of
23 office of the President of the Republic, and desiring as we do to respect
24 the Constitution, protect freedom and democracy in Lebanon, prevent the
25 conversion of our political system into a presidential system, and
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 7/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 7 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 preserve what hope remains of rescuing the country from its crises, we
2 find it impossible to participate in bearing responsibility for the
3 results and impact of what has happened and what is happening.
4 Accordingly, we hereby tender to you our resignations from the
5 government, hoping that you will accept them. We thank you for your
6 confidence and your cooperation with us, and we wish you and Lebanon
7 continued success."
8 Now, is that an accurate reflection of your letter of resignation
9 and those of your two colleagues?
10 A. Absolutely. It's the literal translation from Arabic of our
11 letter of resignation.
12 Q. Now, your letter of resignation was as a minister from the
13 Council of Ministers?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. But not from the Chamber of Deputies?
16 A. No, the Chamber of Deputies is, of course, something else,
17 because we report to the people. We are elected by the people.
18 Q. And why did you feel it necessary to resign from the Council of
19 Ministers?
20 A. Because it was obvious that attending council Of Ministers which
21 would be presided by President Emile Lahoud in a renewed mandate which
22 expressed the pressure of Syria would be considered as an approval of
23 this extension of the mandate and it would have been in complete
24 contradiction with our position of principle to refuse this extension.
25 It was in no way an act of hostility to Prime Minister Hariri.
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 8/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 8 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 Q. And was that understood by him at the time?
2 A. Yes, sir. As I said, it was in accordance with what we had
3 agreed upon on the 26th of September -- of August, excuse me. Of August.
4 Q. I take it that this was a carefully crafted letter of resignation
5 upon which all of you agreed, and you have included a couple of phrases
6 that I would like to inquire about. The first is the phrase: "To
7 prevent the conversion of our political system into a presidential
8 system." What did you mean by that, sir?
9 A. Well, this was a very clear reference to a democratic
10 parliamentary system who was being shifted under the pressure of Syria in
11 effect, if not by text, into a presidential system where
12 President Emile Lahoud, the Syrian candidate and the Syrian
13 representative, if I can call him like that, was to grab all the powers
14 and all other actors on the political scene were becoming "comparse,"
15 just secondary actors.
16 Q. And the other phrase that I would like to ask you about is
17 included in the larger phrase: "We find it impossible to participate in
18 bearing responsibility for the results and impact of what has happened
19 and what is happening." When you refer to "what has happened and what is
20 happening," what you are talking about?
21 A. Well, what has happened was what I have described along the past
22 two days of Syrian pressures on the political system, on the political
23 agents in Lebanon, on the political forces, to obtain this flagrant
24 conversion of the system through extension of the mandate. And what is
25 happening is what we were witnessing as being a decline of the system in
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 9/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 9 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 Lebanon, whereas the prime minister, and even the Speaker and the members
2 of parliament, not to say the government, were reduced to figurines, to
3 simple stooges.
4 Q. On the following page, and perhaps I don't need to take you
5 there, there is a reference in the newspaper article that Mr. Hariri
6 received the American ambassador, Jeffrey Feltman, and also the
7 ambassador of the European Union, Mr. Patrick Renaud that day. As a just
8 recently resigned minister, before that were you aware that the prime
9 minister received ambassadors and foreign dignitaries at Quraitem Palace?
10 A. Yes, of course. He regularly received ambassadors, foreign
11 dignities, foreign ministers, prime ministers coming into Lebanon, also
12 personalities from the economic circles all over the Arabic world and
13 world. He was a very active and open prime minister to contacts inside
14 Lebanon and with the world.
15 Q. And do you know whether those visits were a combination of
16 requests by the prime minister and requests by the foreign dignitaries
17 and ambassadors?
18 A. I don't recall personally if it was a request of the ambassador
19 or the prime minister, but I think it was in the wake of, of course, what
20 had happened with the Lahoud re-election and also it was consistent with
21 the decision by the United Nations Security Council to adopt
22 Resolution 1559.
23 Q. And was there any significance in Mr. Hariri receiving the
24 American ambassador days after the United States had sponsored
25 Resolution 1559?
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 10/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 10 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 A. Yes. I do think, if I recollect my memories at the time, he was
2 eager to appease the Syrians who were, as I said yesterday, in total
3 uproar about the adoption of Resolution 1559. And where they had seen
4 more than a condemnation of the constitutional amendment, a demand by the
5 international community for their withdrawal from Lebanon. So in fact,
6 it was obvious that Mr. Hariri, after our resignation and the appointment
7 of interim ministers in replacement to us, was eager to appease the
8 Syrian feelings. And not only did he receive ambassadors to tell them
9 that: We should not precipitate things, according to 1559, we should not
10 provoke a Lebanon division on the understanding of the word "militias"
11 but we should give all this time. And myself, I am in the wake of trying
12 to form a government of national unity, maybe to recollect the pieces of
13 the Lebanon system.
14 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Hamade, just a clarification. You said
15 Mr. Hariri was trying to please -- sorry, appease --
16 THE WITNESS: Appease.
17 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: -- appease the Syrians. How would receiving
18 the American ambassador a few days after the Americans have sponsored a
19 Security Council resolution that the Syrians were vehemently opposed to,
20 as shown by the letter to the United Nations Security Council which was
21 tendered into evidence yesterday, how would that appease the Syrians?
22 THE WITNESS: Well, the important thing, Your Honour, was not
23 receiving the American ambassador or the European ambassador, Mr. Renaud,
24 as we see here. It was the message delivered to them, and the message
25 was a message of appeasement of the Syrians.
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 11/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 11 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Message delivered to who?
2 THE WITNESS: By Mr. Hariri to the ambassadors was a message
3 destined to calm down the atmosphere and, as I said, appease the Syrian
4 resentment.
5 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Okay. The reason I'm asking is the news
6 information in Exhibit P312 only referred to what the American ambassador
7 had said afterwards and not to what Mr. Hariri had said or the purpose.
8 That's the reason I sought the clarification.
9 JUDGE AKOUM: [Interpretation] A small question, Mr. Marwan. Did
10 Minister Boueiz present his resignation as well because he opposed the
11 extension at the time?
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. He followed us in giving his
13 resignation, and I remember -- sorry, a day before we did. He presented
14 his resignation a day before we did, on the 6th or the morning of the
15 7th, I do not recall the exact date. But all those resignations were
16 presented between the 6th and the 7th of September.
17 JUDGE AKOUM: [Interpretation] So the number of ministers that
18 resigned is four.
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
20 MR. CAMERON:
21 Q. And having resigned from the Council of Ministers with your three
22 colleagues, what were your next political steps?
23 A. [In English] We were working on gathering the popular and
24 parliamentary opposition to this whole process, which means to the
25 process of the re-election, imposed re-election, to the process of the
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 12/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 12 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 uninterrupted continuation of the Syrian occupation of Lebanon, because
2 we tended to consider it from that time as an occupation and no more a
3 presence, because it was an occupation that was translating itself into
4 imposing and major constitutional and political decisions to the
5 Lebanese. And also we were trying to put a platform to prepare the
6 elections that were planned for next spring, so spring of 2004, and rally
7 public opinion around our choices, our options, and therefore try to
8 change things through getting a majority in Parliament and imposing a
9 government, an independentist government on -- in Lebanon, whatever
10 Lahoud's position.
11 Q. During this period of time, September, was there a clear majority
12 in Parliament of any faction?
13 A. A pro-Syrian majority, sir.
14 Q. And were there pro-Syrian candidates in Mr. Hariri's bloc of
15 candidates?
16 A. There were three of them who had been imposed at the elections of
17 2000, the last elections, and he used to call them the Syrian submarines.
18 Q. When you say "imposed upon him," how do you know that that
19 occurred?
20 A. Because when he formed his list in Beirut, it was known and he
21 was disclosing it to us and to his entourage daily, that
22 General Ghazi Kanaan, who was at the time the head of the intelligence,
23 before Mr. Ghazaleh, had asked him to take in the list three
24 personalities who were still members of parliament at the time we are
25 describing.
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 13/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 13 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 Q. And what did it mean functionally to -- for the prime minister to
2 take those three candidates in his list?
3 A. Well, you know the -- the list for Beirut was 19 candidates. It
4 was 19 seats in Beirut, which was his main constituency and the backbone
5 of his influence in Lebanese politics as a Sunni leader. And at the
6 time, in 2000, after two years of Lahoud unilateral government of Lebanon
7 with Mr. -- Dr. Salim Hoss, he thought that it was not a very dear price
8 to pay to get no disturbances in the elections that he was carrying in
9 Beirut. Especially, sir, that the electoral law that divided Beirut in
10 three pieces and the objective of this division was to -- at the time we
11 called it the policy of the "saucisson." I don't know if the word
12 "saucisson" in French, which is like a salami, salami, the salami theory,
13 that by cutting Beirut in thirds, the Syrians would reduce Mr. Hariri's
14 influence to one-third of Beirut.
15 And then the surprise which brought him back into the government
16 in the year 2000 is that he had a landslide victory in the whole of the
17 capital. And what we will witness later is that in the scope of events
18 that he refused later, categorically, to reinclude the three
19 personalities into the future list of 2005. And this was one big item of
20 tension that regained between him and the Syrian regime.
21 Q. While he acquiesced to the wishes of Ghazi Kanaan to insert the
22 three candidates, was it your understanding from the prime minister that
23 he was not happy about it?
24 A. He was not happy about it. He had more moderate and
25 representative candidates to include. But in the year 2000 he accepted
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 14/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 14 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 them in order to prevent -- as I said, he was a man of compromise and of
2 trying to settle things to the best of the interests of Lebanon. And
3 therefore, on a 19-seats list he considered that it was not, as I said, a
4 dear price to accept the three men.
5 But after what happened, we've described the events from year
6 2000 and the beginning of this division between two approaches to the
7 presence of the Syrian troops, continual presence, to the non-disbandment
8 of militias, to the start of a totally independent security and political
9 attitude from Lahoud, the Syrians, and the parties allied to the Syrians.
10 It was obvious that we were heading through the Lahoud episode, to a
11 major episode for the future of Lebanon, which were the elections of
12 2005. And this maybe, maybe, this is of course the Court and yourselves
13 or -- to demonstrate, maybe this is one of the reasons of the
14 precipitation of events after that.
15 Q. Do you remember some time ago now I had asked you about the
16 Syrian influence brought to bear in respect of candidates for the Council
17 of Ministers. Do you recall that?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And you offered an example of --
20 A. [Overlapping speakers] ...
21 Q. -- how that had occurred.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And are the Syrian submarines a corresponding example of an
24 influence within the Chamber of Deputies, the other organ -- democratic
25 organ of Lebanese life?
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 15/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 15 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 A. Yes, sir. Even in our lists in Mount Lebanon, the lists headed
2 by Mr. Jumblatt, there were very often requests, and insistent and
3 persistent requests, to Walid to include in his lists, which were lists
4 almost ensured to gain in view of the popularity in these districts, to
5 impose some candidates. And here also, Walid Jumblatt refused twice,
6 once to President Hafez Al-Assad personally and once to President Bashar
7 Al-Assad, the introduction of one candidate in our eight list of
8 candidates in the Chouf District.
9 It was also a system which was adopted by the Syrian regime to
10 impose candidates even to their own allies. We can find examples. I am
11 not going here to demonstrate this, but it is well known through any
12 reference to all the archives of the Lebanese press and the Lebanese
13 political events that in the Beqaa Valley, in the Tripoli district, in
14 the south of Lebanon, in Mount Lebanon, no exception whatsoever, they
15 were putting what Mr. Hariri called "the submarines" when he described
16 these type -- this type of candidates.
17 Q. So during this period after your resignation from the Council of
18 Ministers, if I understand you correctly your next general steps were to
19 marshall a larger and more united coalition in opposition to what you
20 perceived to be happening in Lebanese politics. Have I summarized that?
21 A. Yes, sir. Mainly, as I said yesterday, with Christian forces,
22 with the Qornet-Chehwan group, with the Renewal group headed by
23 Mr. Lahoud, and with the left headed by the late George Hawi and former
24 MP Elias Atallah.
25 MR. CAMERON: Now, if I might take the witness to a document
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 16/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 16 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 which appears at positions 40 and 41 of the presentation queue. It's a
2 document entitled: "Press release," dated the 9th of September, 2004.
3 And it begins at ERN number D0004687 to 4688. This is a document that
4 was on the Rule 91 exhibit list and was tendered in the Prosecution's
5 motion of 21st of August -- October, under Rule 154, appearing at annex
6 A1.5, row 15. And I'd like to show that to the witness, if I may.
7 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Is this part of MFI P303?
8 MR. CAMERON: Yes, it is.
9 Q. Do you see the press release before you, sir?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Can you just read the heading onto the
12 record, please.
13 MR. CAMERON: Oh, I'm sorry. The heading under: "Press release,
14 Beirut, 9 September 2004. Final session of government announced for 20th
15 of the current [month]. Hariri: Change will be at the end of
16 September."
17 Q. Now, the 9th of September is two days after the date of your
18 resignation; is that right, sir?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. And it appears from this press release that the prime minister is
21 considering that the last session of the current government would be on
22 the 20th of September, if I understand the context of this document. Was
23 that your understanding of the prime minister's position during this
24 period?
25 A. Yes. It was obvious that he was planning, as I said before, to
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 17/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 17 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 try to form an national unity government, a government which we informed
2 him that we will not join, and he spent more than a month encountering
3 many difficulties in forming that government. He always had, I remember,
4 a list in his pocket, and he was working with a very close aide of his,
5 the late Bassel Fuleihan on putting names that would mean a government --
6 a moderate government but representing all parties, almost all parties in
7 Lebanon, and a government that would again, if I can say, appease the
8 tensions in Lebanon, which was his main aim. Notwithstanding that he did
9 not take the advice of Mr. Jumblatt on this point when he told him: You
10 renew the mandate, you resign, and you get out of here for your safety.
11 He thought that -- he thought and he used to tell us that maybe the
12 safety of and the stability of the Lebanese government would be the best
13 guarantee to his own safety.
14 Q. Functionally, how was that going to work? Was this designed to
15 be an interim altered government prior to the May elections in 2005 or
16 was this in anticipation of those elections in 2005?
17 A. No, it was to be a new government. In his plan in the lists we
18 used to look at, it was a new government that would allow the country to
19 go seven, eight months ahead to the elections. And he was very eager to
20 have in this government some portfolios attributed to neutral people or
21 people not totally under Syrian influence, especially the portfolios of
22 justice, interior, and defence, which were critical portfolios for
23 overlooking a democratic election.
24 Q. Do I understand it, then, that these are the beginning of
25 long-term plans leading to the May elections of 2005 as opposed to
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 18/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 18 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 something else?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. All right. And did that have any relationship as a -- as the
4 prime minister's next step, was there a coordination or relationship
5 between what you had done in resigning and in trying to organize an
6 effective opposition?
7 A. We were hoping and we had first signals from the presence of a
8 few MPs from his bloc into the list of 21, which opposed the re-election
9 of Lahoud. We were hoping that he would gradually join the opposition in
10 a way that, in the election of spring 2005, we would be one bloc opposing
11 the pro-Syrian bloc and that we would win that election.
12 MR. CAMERON: If I could ask that another document be shown to
13 the witness which appears at numbers 42 and 43 of the presentation queue,
14 beginning at ERN D0004625 to 4627. It's another press release, dated the
15 13th of September, 2004. It is also part of MFI P303 and appears in
16 Rule 154 Prosecution motion of 21st of October at annex A1.5, row 26.
17 And this is an item on the current Rule 91 list.
18 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: And again, if you would just kindly read the
19 heading onto the record for us.
20 MR. CAMERON: Yes. Under the date of 13 September 2004 the
21 heading is:
22 "The Democratic Gathering prepares a paper comprising 'Ten
23 Points.' Prime Minister confirms government will resign before the end
24 of September."
25 Q. Mr. Hamade, were you aware of the prime minister's trip to
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 19/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 19 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 Barcelona?
2 A. Yes, it was a planned trip where he would receive a kind of an
3 Oscar for his development of Lebanon and his contribution to
4 reconstruction of Lebanon.
5 Q. And I gather this award was presented by the United Nations --
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. -- to the prime minister?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And I also understand that Mr. Fouad Siniora accompanied the
10 prime minister?
11 A. Yes, sir. Mr. Fouad Siniora was still the finance minister in
12 the government from which we had resigned.
13 Q. He replaced you?
14 A. He replaced me ad interim as minister of economy and trade.
15 Q. Otherwise, absence your resignation, you would have accompanied
16 the prime minister, I take it?
17 A. Maybe with Mr. Siniora but maybe I'll be there -- I would have
18 been there.
19 Q. And this press release reflects the following in the phrase:
20 "Rafik Hariri restated his intention to submit the resignation of
21 his government 'before the end of the month.'"
22 And was that your understanding of his intention as of
23 mid-September or earlier?
24 A. Yes, sir. He was to present the resignation of his government
25 and then, according to constitutional rules, wait for the Parliament or
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 20/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 20 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 the members of parliament to undergo with the president of the republic
2 what we call the compulsory consultations; whereas the president has to
3 register who is for Mr. So-and-so and therefore appoint the
4 prime minister accordingly.
5 Q. And is this properly described as a process to establish an
6 interim government until the May elections?
7 A. You can call it interim by description, but it was not an interim
8 government. It was a proper government that would have replaced the
9 government already plagued by the resignation of few ministers and the
10 atmosphere that engulfed the rest of the government.
11 And if I can add, the atmosphere at the time was that the Syrian
12 regime made Mr. Hariri feel - and we will see later why it was only made
13 him feel - that he would be appointed as the next prime minister. As I
14 said, the majority in the Parliament was still in Syrian hands and
15 therefore they made him feel that payback to his move on the 28th of
16 August when he presided the government which approved the amendment, they
17 would keep him in power or allow him to stay in power.
18 Q. And how do you know that, sir?
19 A. Because he was very confident. And as I told you, during the
20 month of September he was consulting with us, although we were not to
21 participate in his government, and I told you he always had this list, I
22 do remember, I recall this list in his pocket, where he was trying to
23 find some kind of acceptable balance. And, in fact, this was a little --
24 not a little bit but dramatically stopped as a process by the attempt on
25 my life at the end of this month -- of that month.
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 21/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 21 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 Q. On the next page of this document, beginning at D0004626, there
2 is a heading entitled: "The Democratic Gathering." And there is a
3 reference in that to the Democratic Gathering working on a ten-points
4 document. Do you see that, sir?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. And was that, in fact, happening during this period of
7 September -- mid-September?
8 A. Yes, I was in charge together with two colleagues, MPs, because
9 we were no more ministers, Mr. Aridi and Mr. Bassem Al-Sabaa, to
10 establish a document which title would be: "For the defence of freedom
11 and democracy in Lebanon." And this document - that exists at -- I don't
12 have it here but I have it at home and in my file - is an official
13 document which I read. On the 21st of September, 2004, I personally gave
14 lecture of this document on behalf of the bloc, and Mr. Jumblatt was
15 there and our other colleagues. It was a rather long document but ending
16 in ten points where, as we said, we were pinpointing at the
17 irregularities committed in the system, in the politics, in
18 administration, in economy, under the pressure of security agencies and
19 the Syrian army.
20 Q. We'll return to that document in a moment. But at page D0004627,
21 there is a reference to approval by the Democratic Gathering and that it
22 "will be a point of deliberation for a number of parties in the
23 opposition, most prominently the Qornet-Chehwan Gathering, the Movement
24 for Democratic Renewal, the Democratic Forum, and the Democratic Left
25 Movement."
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 22/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 22 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 These five are in addition to the Democratic Gathering or
2 included within the Democratic Gathering?
3 A. No, they are in addition. These are different parties or civil
4 movements.
5 Q. So may we take it that there were six components to the
6 opposition at this stage?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And were these other five components long-standing allies of the
9 Democratic Gathering of which you were a member or were they recent
10 additions?
11 A. Some of them were long-standing allies, especially the Democratic
12 Left Movement which was a natural ally of the Socialist Party of
13 Mr. Walid Jumblatt. The others we had found points of -- of encountering
14 and of consensus since the year 2000 and on, on these major items
15 concerning the presence of Syrian forces, the militia complete
16 development instead of disbandment, and also the respect of the
17 constitutional principles for the change of power.
18 Q. Can you tell the Tribunal with some specificity now the nature of
19 the Qornet-Chehwan Gathering?
20 A. Yes. The Qornet-Chehwan Gathering was a cornerstone of the
21 opposition inspired by the Maronite Patriarch
22 Mar Nasrallah Boutros Sfeir, and it regrouped only Christian leaders from
23 different parties, some of them existing parties, some of them parties
24 dissolved by the Syrian authorities, and very respectable personalities.
25 And the secretary-general of Qornet-Chehwan was a bishop appointed by the
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 23/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 23 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 patriarch or delegated by the patriarch to constitute common grounds for
2 these personalities. Among these personalities were very bright persons.
3 There was Mrs. Nayla Mouawad, the wife of late assassinated president
4 Rene Mouawad, the president who was killed immediately after Taif. There
5 was Mr. Nasib Lahoud, the leader of the Democratic Renewal Movement.
6 There was Sheikh Boutros Harb, a long-standing member of parliament and
7 one of the top lawyers in the country and presently minister. There was
8 my nephew, Mr. Gebran Tueini, the director of An-Nahar of which talked --
9 MR. CAMERON: [Microphone not activated] May I have a moment?
10 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: We'll just take a short break for a few
11 moments.
12 --- Break taken at 11.11 a.m.
13 [The witness stands down]
14 [The witness takes the stand]
15 --- On resuming at 11.15 a.m.
16 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: I think you were mid-sentence a few moments
17 ago, Mr. Hamade. I think the Prosecutor will take you back to where you
18 were or maybe ask you a slightly different question.
19 Mr. Cameron.
20 MR. CAMERON: Thank you, Your Honour.
21 Q. Mr. Hamade, I had interrupted you in your description of the
22 members of the Qornet-Chehwan Gathering, and could I ask you to repeat
23 the membership as you understood it, please?
24 A. Yes. It was very distinguished Christian gathering, translating
25 the wishes and the political options of the Maronite Church. And
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 24/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 24 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 although it was including others than Maronite leaders but all
2 Christians. Amongst them, as I said I will quickly come back to that,
3 Mrs. Nayla Mouawad, the widow of the late President Rene Mouawad,
4 assassinated after Taif; Mr. Nasib Lahoud, the head of the Democratic
5 Renewal Movement, he was MP; Mr. Sheikh Boutros Harb, who was also a
6 prominent parliamentarian and lawyer in Lebanon; the leftist leaders --
7 no, not the leftist leaders. In the Qornet-Chehwan - I'm sorry - there
8 was also my nephew Gebran Tueini, the director of An-Nahar, and some
9 unproclaimed representatives of the Lebanese forces. We have to recall
10 that Dr. Samir Geagea was in jail at the time. And of General Michel
11 Aoun, we have to recall also that he was living in exile in Paris.
12 Q. And the man that you mentioned, Gebran Tueini, is this the same
13 gentleman who was editor-in-chief of An-Nahar newspaper at the time of
14 the sale of shares by Prime Minister Hariri in 2003?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And was he subsequently elected to the Chamber of Deputies in the
17 May elections?
18 A. Yes. In 2005 he was elected.
19 Q. And I think that you earlier mentioned that he was then
20 assassinated by a car bomb on the 12th of December, 2005, nine months
21 later?
22 A. Nine months later, which provoked our demand for an international
23 tribunal for Lebanon.
24 Q. Now, did the Qornet-Chehwan Gathering have a particular ideology
25 prior to the August 26th meeting?
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 25/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 25 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 A. They already existed and they already expressed permanently their
2 dissatisfaction with the way Syria was running Lebanon or imposing on
3 Lebanon to be run, and it was calling all the time for Syrian withdrawal,
4 for militia disbandment, for a better balance of power in Lebanon. And
5 it was in fact very similar in its spirit to the famous communiqué of
6 2000 which the patriarch and the Maronite bishops published at the time,
7 launching this famous campaign for the withdrawal of Syrian forces now
8 that the Israeli forces have gone beyond the armistice line.
9 Q. And did the Qornet-Chehwan Gathering vote with you in your bloc
10 generally or was there some division between your group, the Democratic
11 Gathering, and their group?
12 A. No, they voted with our bloc.
13 Q. And how many were they compared to you? Were you roughly equal
14 in number or?
15 A. No, we -- we were -- I would say on the 29 who voted against the
16 amendment, we were 17. But if we include people who were both on
17 Qornet-Chehwan and in our list, I would say we were 15 to 14 or something
18 like that.
19 Q. Okay. What was the goal of this group, generally? Was one of
20 the goals to unite the various factions, the various groups into one, or
21 was it something different?
22 A. It was not meant to make a one-party group, not at all, because
23 most of these personalities were independent personalities. But the idea
24 was to extend the opposition in Lebanon to other parties and other
25 communities including the very important Shia community. Some of its
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 26/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 26 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 intellectuals, journalists, eminent journalists, and some of its clerics
2 had -- were joining our voice in demanding, maybe in a more, I would say,
3 moderate way, the reappraisal of this whole system of Syrian presence and
4 the maintenance -- maintaining Hezbollah militia not only at the expense
5 of Lebanon but at all other -- expense of all other Shia parties who were
6 forced to be unarmed, leaving the monopoly of weapons with Hezbollah.
7 Q. And were the Shia members who were sympathetic contained within
8 these groups that --
9 A. Some.
10 Q. -- appear on this page?
11 A. Some of them, not the clerics, were in the forum, member.
12 Q. Can you in a brief way describe the Movement for Democratic
13 Renewal and who comprised it?
14 A. It comprised at its head MP Nasib Lahoud, a very important
15 personality in Lebanon who was candidate for the presidency in 2007, who
16 died since of cancer. And he had gathered around him very brilliant
17 intellectuals like lawyer Antoine Haddad, like journalist Malek Mroueh
18 who was a Shia, and other personalities who were considered as an elite
19 of the Lebanese political establishment.
20 Q. And what role, if any, did Prime Minister Hariri take in this
21 group?
22 A. Prime Minister Hariri did not have a direct role in this group.
23 Some of the MPs that were included in these different groups were
24 sometimes with Hariri on some issues, sometimes in Parliament against the
25 government or the policies of Mr. Hariri, especially the economic policy.
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 27/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 27 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 And there were very vocal and independent critics, all supporters of the
2 government in a very traditional democratic way. But they were all
3 sympathetic with Hariri's ordeal with the Syrians during the last years
4 of his government, and they were all starting to unite with us first but
5 with the hope that we would extend to the future movement and to the
6 Hariri bloc progressively as we would approach the elections so as to
7 have a vast coalition that would have been really massively victorious in
8 the elections.
9 Q. And what was the first indications, subtle or otherwise, that you
10 had that the prime minister was sympathetic to this growing coalition
11 opposition movement?
12 A. Well, first of all because we were in this coalition. Secondly,
13 because he had very good relations with many members of Qornet-Chehwan
14 and with the patriarch, with the Maronite Patriarch Monsignor Sfeir,
15 which was the basis of this continuous discontent with the Syrian
16 behaviour in Lebanon. Also, we should recall that he was very close
17 personally to Mr. Nasib Lahoud, who was our ambassador to Washington for
18 years, recommended in that position by Mr. Hariri. He was also on good
19 terms -- I wouldn't say that Mr. Hariri was a leftist, but he was on good
20 terms with the Democratic Left Movement, especially that this movement,
21 who comprised leaders, former leaders of the Communist Party in Lebanon,
22 had split from the Communist Party after the massacres of 1987, when, as
23 I described, the Syrian intelligence hit the Communist Party and its
24 leadership, killing some of its leaders. They had split and they had
25 become no more an ally of Syria and its so-called socialist system and
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 28/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 28 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 its alliance with the Soviet Union, then with Russia, the Federation of
2 Russia, but they had become independent left, closer to this atmosphere
3 that we describe here.
4 Q. And over and above people who were recognized as close to the
5 prime minister such as yourself, were there particular people from
6 Mr. Hariri's bloc or other confidants of Mr. Hariri that became
7 associated with this movement --
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. -- in September?
10 A. Yes. I do recall that the man who was the most active in
11 establishing the link with Qornet-Chehwan and with other Christian
12 leaders was a Christian MP, former president of the Order of Physicians
13 of Lebanon, an eminent doctor at the American University Hospital in
14 Beirut, Dr. Ghattas Khoury, who was all the time a very close advisor to
15 late President Hariri.
16 Q. Now, this increasing coalition became known under another name,
17 did it not?
18 A. It became known a little later, with the participation of some of
19 Mr. Hariri's partisans or MPs, under the Bristol Gathering, by reference
20 to Hotel Bristol who became the symbol of our meetings and of our
21 communiqués and of this larger forum, if we can call it, that was opened
22 also to labour unions, to civil movements, movements of the civil
23 society, and was becoming really a very wide democratic forum where we
24 will witness progressively the adherence of Hariri's group to these
25 meetings as we go ahead after the episode of his final resignation the
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 29/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 29 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 months after in October.
2 Q. Did you regard this as an exciting time for you in Lebanese
3 politics?
4 A. Well, it was a time of democratic awakening for all of us, after
5 experiencing the alliance with Syria with the hope that the Taif
6 Agreement would be implemented, and then the growing disappointment with
7 what was agreed upon between the two countries and what was implemented
8 by the military and security regime in Damascus.
9 Q. Had you seen this sort of awakening, as you put it, in Lebanese
10 politics before?
11 A. Yes, of course. Lebanon is a country where you witness a lot of
12 political changes, of political action. In the first republic between --
13 before Taif, before the civil war, it was of course it blooming folkloric
14 democracy, as I said once here, but people were always free to say what
15 they want, free to vote like they want. And I can say that at one time,
16 in 1970, sir, we had a presidential election unique in the annals of
17 Lebanon, where President Suleiman Frangieh, the grandfather of present MP
18 Suleiman Frangieh, was elected by a coalition by 50 votes to 49, and this
19 was unique in the history of Lebanon, and titles of the papers were: The
20 one vote is the people's vote. And this experience that we always tried
21 to come back to, whether with Frangieh or against Frangieh, was an
22 experience after years of a growing influence of the military agencies in
23 Lebanon, the "Mukhabarat loubnaniyeh," what we call the second bureau,
24 the "deuxième bureau." So these kind of awakenings happened, in answer
25 to the question, in Lebanese politics. Here they were complicated by the
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 30/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 30 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 presence of weapons, whether the presence of foreign army, first an
2 enemy, then a brotherly foreign army imposing its diktat, and then a
3 militia that was extending its powers.
4 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Hamade, we're going to have to pause
5 there. We're having a -- it's not your testimony, we're having a
6 technical issue with the transcript. So we're just going to have to
7 pause for a moment, but it's a good time to take a break which will allow
8 you to have a tea or coffee, whatever you'd like to drink, and we'll see
9 you back in about half an hour.
10 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Your Honour.
11 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Court is adjourned.
12 --- Recess taken at 11.37 a.m.
13 --- On resuming at 12.11 p.m.
14 MR. CAMERON:
15 Q. Mr. Hamade, before we broke, as I understood it, you were
16 describing a sort of awakening in Lebanese politics in September of 2004,
17 and you had referred and likened it to something that happened in the
18 1970s. But since the 1970s on until 2004, had there been in that
19 intervening period a similar kind of moment or time in Lebanese politics?
20 A. Well, unfortunately, the country was later devastated by a
21 combination of civil strife, Israeli invasions, Syrian intervention, and
22 a lot of unfortunate events which were a series of murders that occurred
23 and plagued the Lebanese political establishment.
24 Q. And from the time of 1990 when the Taif Accord must have
25 represented a turning point for the country, from that time until
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 31/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 31 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 September of 2004, had you seen during that period this kind of awakening
2 at other stages?
3 A. There were ups and downs in the hopes. Ups with the
4 reconstruction of Lebanon, Beirut, infrastructure among the -- all over
5 the country, national unity that prevailed partially, because some of the
6 components of the Lebanese society did not abide by the Taif Agreement
7 and this resulted in unfortunate events between Christian militias,
8 first, or the Christian militia and the army first, then intervention of
9 the Syrian army. Then after the disbandment of the militias we thought
10 that gradually we would get somewhere. But there was, I have to admit,
11 although we were in government at the time, there was a kind of
12 discrimination towards some of the Christian components in Lebanon,
13 especially the Lebanese forces and the Aounist movement. This was to be
14 repaired and was repaired in 2005. This is why I'm talking of awakening,
15 after that, by the return from exile of General Aoun, and a special law
16 that we promulgated, we voted and promulgated giving amnesty for
17 Dr. Geagea.
18 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Cameron, we appreciate you're feeling a
19 little unwell. If it's easier for you to sit while asking the questions,
20 please don't feel in any way you're disrespecting us because you're
21 certainly not.
22 MR. CAMERON: That's very kind of you to say, thank you. I'm
23 grateful to you.
24 Q. A moment ago in your answer you mentioned the concept of
25 reconstruction as one of the things that lifted spirits, if I can
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 32/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 32 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 paraphrase that.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Was there a person or persons or group largely responsible for
4 the reconstruction of Lebanon after the civil war?
5 A. Well, the whole government was in charge. The Council for
6 Development and Reconstruction was in charge. Many of the Arab funds
7 undertook rebuilding infrastructures. I was minister of health for seven
8 years during that period -- or six years. And with the help of Kuwait,
9 Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, we rebuilt the hospitals in most
10 of the areas -- government hospitals in all of the areas of Lebanon.
11 There was a special effort on, as I said, the airport, the harbour, the
12 centre of Beirut, water and electricity - although now the situation is
13 dreadful - and there was a continuous rate of growth that re-established
14 a certain degree of -- of prosperity in the country.
15 Q. And what role, if any, did Rafik Hariri play in that process of
16 reconstruction?
17 A. He was the locomotive, if I can say, of the whole process, and he
18 animated and went around gathering support, preparing plans, and working
19 uninterruptedly all the time on schemes. As I told you, I think, in one
20 session, he used to wake us up at 6.00 and most of the time either
21 discuss and settle government problems before 8.00, or taking us in his
22 car, driving it, to the different sites of construction in and around
23 Beirut.
24 Q. Now, coming to the term that was used earlier, the Bristol Group.
25 MR. CAMERON: May I ask for the document that appears at
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 33/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 33 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 positions 14 and 15 on the presentation queue, which is an article from
2 An-Nahar newspaper dated the 21st of September, 2004. Beginning at ERN
3 60235641 to 642. The document is dated 21st of September, 2004, and the
4 headline is: "Democratic Gathering Document to be announced at noon
5 today."
6 Q. And this document was an extract from a larger document of eight
7 An-Nahar newspaper articles with the ERN 60235629 to 642 which was
8 contained originally within a series of articles provided by Mr. Hamade
9 and attached originally to the 91 -- the Rule 91 list but removed through
10 inadvertence. It presently appears on the Prosecution's Rule 154 motion
11 of 21st of October at annex A1.6, row 2, and Annex B, 351.
12 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Can I just ask if Defence can counsel have
13 any objection to, firstly, the document being restored to the
14 Prosecution's exhibit list and, secondly, receiving it into evidence?
15 No objection to either. So the document will be restored to the
16 Rule 91 exhibit list and will be Exhibit P313.
17 Q. Mr. Hamade, the first page you can see the date of 21st September
18 2004. And the initial text reads:
19 "Yesterday evening," i.e. on the 20th, I guess, "at the home of
20 the leader of the Progressive Socialist Party, Mr. Walid Jumblatt, in
21 Clemenceau Street, the Democratic Gathering discussed the document that
22 is to be presented basically for a frontal opposition operation, and will
23 be announced at a press conference at noon today at Mr. Jumblatt's
24 residence."
25 Were there often meetings among the Democratic Gathering at
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 34/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 34 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 Mr. Jumblatt's residence?
2 A. During this period, yes, more intense meetings than usual because
3 we had to reshape our policy and prepare for what is described here as a
4 frontal opposition operation.
5 Q. All right. Were you aware where other groups that would later
6 come into the umbrella of the Bristol Group met amongst themselves?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did you know where the -- or the general area in which the
9 Qornet-Chehwan met?
10 A. Yes. It is in the Metn area in a convent which is a convent of
11 Qornet-Chehwan.
12 Q. And at page ERN 60235642.
13 MR. CAMERON: If we could go to that.
14 Q. And the second full paragraph reads:
15 "Commenting on his statement he would adopt more flexible
16 positions in dealing with the government," that is Mr. Jumblatt from the
17 previous paragraphs.
18 He said:
19 "We shall clarify the matter on Wednesday at the Bristol hotel
20 meeting. The indications are that a government of national consensus
21 will be formed. What would be the meaning of a government of national
22 consensus if the opposition did not have a clear position paper on
23 demands relating to domestic issues, and on the clarification of
24 Lebanese-Syrian relations? We shall prepare such a paper, and we shall
25 submit it to the Prime Minister, Mr. Rafik Hariri, if he is the one, or
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 35/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 35 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 whoever it is if someone else assumes that post."
2 Do you see that, sir?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And is that why the Bristol Group got its name, because of this
5 meeting at the Bristol hotel?
6 A. Yes. And it became, as I said, the symbol of the whole -- whole
7 era of the battle of the opposition until the assassination of
8 Prime Minister Hariri.
9 Q. And just for clarification, if I were to say that Wednesday
10 referred to, the Wednesday would be the 22nd of September, this being a
11 Tuesday on the 21st. Does that sound about right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Now, you brought with you an article that I understand that you
14 had drafted, which is entitled: "Democratic Gathering Declaration for
15 Freedoms and the Protection of the Constitution and the Democratic
16 Regime." Do you recall that, sir?
17 A. Yes, this is what I was describing a short while ago as the
18 declaration, not an article, it's not a press article, it's a statement
19 that I read during that press conference at Mr. Jumblatt's residence in
20 the name of all my colleagues, and it includes of course the ten points
21 that I think were quoted here in an earlier document.
22 MR. CAMERON: Now, Your Honour, this was provided to the Office
23 of the Prosecutor on Sunday and it was disclosed to the Defence on
24 Monday, and it has been translated from Arabic to English. And for the
25 sake of completeness, it might be appropriate to enter it as an exhibit
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 36/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 36 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 as the article that Mr. Hamade can now identify.
2 It does not -- sorry. It does not in and of itself over and
3 above Mr. Hamade's testimony have significant evidentiary value, but it
4 is part of the story that he presents. It appears at page --
5 presentation queue 87. And it is from ERN 60301567 to 581. Presentation
6 queue 85 is the English version, and 87 is the Arabic version. The
7 21st of September, 2004.
8 [Trial Chamber and Legal Officer confer]
9 MR. CAMERON: Can I give you my hard copy.
10 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: What does the Defence say to this?
11 MR. HANNIS: Well, Your Honour, I've lost my view of it. If I
12 was looking at the right document, I see part of it has some quotes from
13 Mr. Jumblatt talking about Mr. Lahoud and the palace and certain rooms in
14 the palace. I object to that coming in through this witness at this
15 point in time based on what's been asked. The bottom where he's talking
16 about the meeting and writing the platform I don't have a problem with,
17 but as to the whole document, I do have an objection so far.
18 MR. EDWARDS: I share those observations, Your Honour.
19 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Isn't a again a question of weight when we
20 view it in its entirety?
21 MR. HANNIS: Well, we heard yesterday that possibly Mr. Jumblatt
22 is going to be coming as a witness later on, then he can talk about that
23 part of the document. Or if Mr. Hamade was there and heard him say those
24 things, I suppose it could come in that way. But based on what he said
25 so far, I still have an objection.
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 37/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 37 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 [Trial Chamber confers]
2 MR. CAMERON: It might help if I mention that it is offered for a
3 limited purpose.
4 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: The only slight procedural issue we're
5 having is looking at the document. It doesn't appear to be in the great
6 folder full of documents with Mr. Hamade. I just want to share it
7 amongst us for a moment so we can just refresh our minds.
8 I take it the application is, firstly, to add it to your Rule 91
9 exhibit list and, secondly, to have it admitted into evidence. If those
10 are your two applications, having heard from the Defence, the
11 Trial Chamber will, firstly, add it to the -- or grant your application
12 to add it to the Rule 91 exhibit list and, secondly, accept it as an
13 exhibit with the number P314. We're noting that it's entitled
14 "Democratic Gathering Declaration for Freedoms and the Protection of the
15 Constitution and the Democratic Regime, Beirut, 21 September 2004," ERN
16 60301568 to 60301577.
17 Mr. Hannis, did you think you were looking at a different
18 document?
19 MR. HANNIS: Your Honour, I don't know. I don't have it in front
20 of me right now, so I don't know what I was looking at before. And if my
21 learned friend could state on the record for what limited purpose he's
22 offering it, that might take care of my objection entirely.
23 MR. CAMERON: It is for a fairly narrow purpose and it is not for
24 the truth of the contents of what is contained within the document, but
25 it is a reflection of the position of the members who supported this
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 38/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 38 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 declaration and the fact that that position was maintained publicly.
2 MR. HANNIS: Your Honour, with that and having seen this, I have
3 no objection. I would indicate I was looking at something else that was
4 a press release quoting Mr. Jumblatt. My apologies.
5 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: I suspect when Mr. Edwards was agreeing with
6 you he was also reading through your eyes the same incorrect press
7 release. Okay.
8 We've taken note of the positions of the parties. Please
9 continue with your questioning.
10 MR. CAMERON: Thank you, Your Honour.
11 Q. Mr. Hamade, is this -- do you have the document before you?
12 A. Yeah, I have the title.
13 Q. And since you brought the document to us, you are familiar with
14 its contents and you had a hand in its drafting; is that fair to say?
15 A. And in delivering the press conference about it in the presence
16 of Mr. Jumblatt.
17 Q. All right. Now how did it come about that this document was
18 prepared? Who participated in its preparation?
19 A. As a parliamentary bloc, we designate two or three of our members
20 to establish a draft, and then we submit it to the collective, to the
21 college of MPs that we are constituted of, and we introduce remarks, of
22 course Mr. Jumblatt plays a major role in that, and then we designate
23 somebody to read it to the press. And we had a big press conference on
24 September 21, 2004, for this purpose.
25 Q. And was it only members of the Democratic Gathering that attended
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 39/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 39 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 or were there other groups that later became part of the --
2 A. No, it's --
3 Q. -- Bristol group, if I can put it that way?
4 A. If I recall, we were the bloc. We were 16 -- 17 MPs. That means
5 the Democratic Gathering plus the two who are associated to us by being
6 members of our lists, electoral lists, and one of them being from the
7 Kataeb party of Mr. -- President Amin Gemayel, and the other one being
8 from the Mustaqbal group, Mr. Hajjar, headed by Mr. Hariri.
9 Q. Okay. And was that latter attendance of symbolic significance in
10 any way?
11 A. No. They used to attend with us our meetings because this is why
12 we called this whole group "Al-Liqaa Al-Dimoucrati," the Democratic
13 Gathering.
14 Q. And without going through the document and having drafted it,
15 negotiated it, as it were, amongst your colleagues, and delivered it to
16 the press, can you tell me in a general sense what the import of the
17 document is? Can you distill the essence of the message contained within
18 the documents in a reasonably precise manner?
19 A. Well, it reflects in generally moderate words and a sequence of
20 explanations what were the issues we were deploring and condemning in the
21 exercise of power in Lebanon and addressing ourselves especially to what
22 maybe Mr. Jumblatt described - you will probably ask him about it - as
23 the ghost regime that existed. This ghost regime was described in this
24 document in several points concerning the use of what was supposed to be
25 agreements between Lebanon and Syria and agreements amongst ourselves to
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 40/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 40 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 purposes that were undemocratic and against the freedom, exactly how it
2 is reflected by the title itself.
3 Q. I guess inherent in a document like this there are defined things
4 which you are against and there are --
5 A. [Overlapping speakers] --
6 Q. -- there is an echo of what solutions might be brought to bear.
7 So dealing with the first part, the defined things that you were against
8 or represented the reasons or the genesis of this document, can you in a
9 succinct way, briefly, enumerate what goes where, the things that you
10 thought were wrong with Lebanese politics?
11 A. Principally the use of -- the use of unconstitutional agencies,
12 people who were not effective to implement the democratic regime but who
13 were creating a new republic parallel to the republic we had established
14 and convened amongst ourselves. This is the main thing. It's the, I
15 would say, the drifting of the whole system into something totally
16 different that started to look as a presidential regime, like we stated
17 several times, and as a dictatorial regime, as we stated also several
18 times. These were the things we were condemning.
19 Q. And was it clear in the document and in your expressions to the
20 media as to who you considered responsible for that deviation from what
21 you thought was appropriate?
22 A. As I said earlier, it was written in moderate terms not to
23 provoke a real open battle with other groups in Lebanon, other parties,
24 and especially with the Syrian regime. But it was clearly -- and anybody
25 who can go -- it's a long text, who can go through it will discover that
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 41/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 41 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 what is really targeted is the Syrian exploitation of texts and influence
2 to make of the Lebanese regime something different from a parliamentarian
3 democracy.
4 Q. And on the other side of the equation, if a reasonable person
5 reading this text, what would they have understood that you hoped to do
6 about that?
7 A. To rectify this through democratic measures, through democratic
8 action, through unity of Lebanese -- the Lebanese political groups,
9 without exclusion of anybody, in all directions. We did not at all
10 discriminate anybody. We were addressing ourselves to all the Lebanese,
11 to all the Lebanese groups, and asking them to join us in this reform
12 movement.
13 Q. Had the Democratic Gathering issued a proclamation or statement
14 of principle of this nature ever before?
15 A. Well, the Democratic Gathering existed only after 2000 when we
16 enlarged -- we won the election and we enlarged the group to include
17 people belonging to other political groups or parties. We had, of
18 course, a big statements and important statements at the occasion of the
19 national reconciliation in the mountain, which was described in a further
20 testimony here two days ago, I think, and where the Patriarch Sfeir and
21 Mr. Jumblatt sealed what was to be considered the real end of the civil
22 war in Lebanon by reconciling Christians and Jews and by supporting more
23 and more what we called the return of the displaced persons, a portfolio
24 of which I detained at the time.
25 Q. In drafting the document, you mentioned that you had discussions
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 42/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 42 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued)
1 with your colleagues in the Democratic Gathering. Did you also have
2 discussions with the other groups, like the Qornet-Chehwan, in discussing
3 the principles that you wished to advance in a document like this?
4 A. Yes, we had, I can say, unofficial contacts with them. They did
5 not participate in the elaboration of the document. But most of them --
6 all of them knew that this document was going to be our contribution to
7 the Bristol meeting and therefore one of the platforms of that meeting to
8 which we supposed - and this is what happened - that other groups will
9 bring also their contribution.
10 MR. CAMERON: Your Honour, I do apologize. I've reached the end
11 of my capacity to be of assistance to you today.
12 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: I just note, Ms. Bari, you're taking over
13 from Mr. Cameron for the moment, who is unwell and is unable to continue
14 with Mr. Hamade.
15 Mr. Hamade, the situation is -- when the Prosecutor said he's
16 reached the end of his capacity to be of assistance to us today, he's
17 unwell. He's unable to continue with questioning given the extent of
18 your evidence. So what we're going to have to do is to adjourn for the
19 day with your evidence. We haven't completed it. But that was always
20 the intention, that you will have to come back later.
21 So what we're going to have to do is we're going to have to say
22 adieu to you --
23 THE WITNESS: "Au revoir," not "adieu."
24 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Well, it's "tot straks" in Dutch --
25 THE WITNESS: Except if anything happens to me in Beirut in the
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 43/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Marwan Hamade –PRH038 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 43 Procedural Matters
1 meantime.
2 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Yes, Judge Akoum said "à bientôt." Well,
3 and I would say for him "Inshallah" that nothing will, of course, happen
4 to you.
5 So what we're going to do is we're going to adjourn your
6 testimony. Mr. Cameron will finish with you at some point when you
7 return. And then Defence counsel will ask you questions.
8 So what we're going to do is we're going to -- again, I'm going
9 to thank you very much for coming to the Netherlands and testifying over
10 the last four days. We understand how tiring it is for someone to sit in
11 the witness box and have questions fired at them, although it was only --
12 yes, one set of questioning -- one set of questions that could be
13 described as "friendly fire" in terms of the questions that you were
14 being asked.
15 Again, I'm going to ask you, now that you're going back to
16 Beirut, it's quite important that you don't discuss your evidence. And I
17 know people will want to discuss your evidence with you, that being the
18 nature of life experience, so please be very cognisant of that - I know
19 you will - and please don't talk about your evidence with anyone, apart
20 from the fact that you've been here and I think everyone in Beirut --
21 everyone in Beirut knows that. So if you could again just bear that in
22 mind.
23 THE WITNESS: Can I say a word, Your Honour? Can I inquire from
24 the honourable Court and Your Honour, I can go back to my political
25 responsibilities in other matters? Because we have a presidential
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 44/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Evidentiary Matters (Open Session) Page 44
1 election, hopefully, for the 15th time, that is fixed. I'm a member of
2 the electoral law committee. I'm supposed to draft an electoral law. It
3 has nothing to do with my testimony, but I can pursue my normal political
4 life aside from what is going on here?
5 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Hamade, you must go back to your life as
6 a citizen of Lebanon and indeed of the world and go about your business.
7 The only thing is just please don't discuss your evidence, what you're
8 saying in the court, with anybody. That's the main thing. We want to
9 preserve the integrity of your testimony now and when you come back.
10 So thank you very much. You're free to -- to travel back now,
11 and we wish you a safe trip back to Beirut.
12 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Your Honour. Thank you.
13 [The witness stands down]
14 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Edwards, you're on your feet. Is it
15 connected with this testimony?
16 MR. EDWARDS: It is not. It's just a short matter of --
17 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Can --
18 MR. EDWARDS: -- housekeeping.
19 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Can we come to that in a moment.
20 MR. EDWARDS: Yes, of course.
21 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Hamade will be coming back, as you know,
22 sometime in December, when Mr. Cameron will finish with his evidence, and
23 then we'll move to Defence cross-examining. I'm not asking you to say
24 anything at the moment, I'm just asking if you could please, as soon as
25 possible, I think having heard the great bulk of the witness's evidence
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 45/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Evidentiary Matters (Open Session) Page 45
1 now, if you could communicate as soon as possible to the Prosecutor your
2 current estimates of how long you think you need to complete Mr. Hamade's
3 testimony which would allow us to schedule sittings in December and
4 January.
5 Mr. Edwards.
6 MR. EDWARDS: Thank you, Your Honour. Of course that will be
7 done as soon as we can.
8 The matter of housekeeping relates to a filing of the Badreddine
9 Defence team. It's filing F1734, a response to the Prosecution motion
10 for admission of evidence relevant to the movements of Rafik Hariri and
11 of political events, a Prosecution motion made under Rule 154. That
12 motion was filed confidentially by virtue of certain parts of the
13 original Prosecution motion which was confidential. That original
14 Prosecution motion has now been -- or has been filed in a redacted public
15 form, and we now, as a result, request the Trial Chamber to reclassify
16 our response to that motion as public.
17 [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]
18 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Are you --
19 MR. EDWARDS: Forgive me, I ought to say that the matter has been
20 raised with my learned friend Ms. Bari and she is agreeable.
21 [Trial Chamber confers]
22 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: If you're simply asking for your motion or
23 your filing to be made public, all I need do, as I understand it, is
24 instruct the Registry or the Court Management Services Section to
25 reclassify it as public. And I do that.
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20141120_STL-11-01_T_T96_OFF_PUB_EN 46/46
PUBLIC Official Transcript Evidentiary Matters (Open Session) Page 46
1 MR. EDWARDS: I'm obliged, thank you.
2 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: And so that that's quite clear, it's filing
3 41734 [sic].
4 Are there any other administrative matters that need to be raised
5 at this particular point? The transcript says "41734," I think I said
6 F -- well, I thought I did, F1734.
7 There is no further business. We note that Saturday, the 22nd of
8 November, is Lebanon's Independence Day, and we -- the Chamber wishes to
9 send a message of congratulations and goodwill to the Lebanese people on
10 celebrating their Independence Day on Saturday which marks the 71st
11 anniversary of their declaration of independence, and there will be a
12 holiday at the Special Tribunal tomorrow to mark that.
13 So with that message, and of course a message to Mr. Cameron that
14 we hope you recover as soon as possible, we wish everyone a happy
15 Lebanese Independence Day and we will see you back the week after next.
16 Court is adjourned.
17 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 12.55 p.m. 18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Thursday, 20 November 2014 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic.