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AN ORAL HISTORY OF BRITISH FASHION Leslie Russell Interviewed by Linda Sandino C1046/05 © The British Library Board IMPORTANT Please refer to the Oral History curators at the British Library prior to any publication or broadcast from this document. Oral History The British Library 96 Euston Road London NW1 2DB United Kingdom +44 [0]20 7412 7404 [email protected] Every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of this transcript, however no transcript is an exact translation of the spoken word, and this document is intended to be a guide to the original recording, not replace it. Should you find any errors please inform the Oral History curators. © The British Library Board NATIONAL LIFE STORIES INTERVIEW SUMMARY SHEET Ref. No.: C1046/05/01-12 Playback No.: F13773-74; F14372-75; F14535-37; F14683-84; F14911 Collection title: An Oral History of British Fashion Interviewee’s surname: Russell Title: Mr Interviewee’s forenames: Leslie Sex: Male Occupation: Hairdresser Date of birth: 07.05.1943 Mother’s occupation: Housewife Father’s occupation: Factory worker Date(s) of recording: 03.09.2003; 26.09.2003; 10.12.2003; 21.01.2004; 11.02.2004; 24.03.2004 Location of interview: Interviewee’s flat above salon ‘Smile’ Name of interviewer: Linda Sandino Type of recorder: Marantz CP430 Total no. of tapes: 12 Type of tape: D60 Mono or stereo: Stereo Speed: n/a Noise reduction: Dolby B Original or copy: original Additional material: Two photocopies of magazine articles from 1960s about the interviewee and hairdressing styles. Copyright/Clearance: full Interviewer’s comments: Noises on tapes 3 – 6 are building work on neighbouring property. Interruptions from daughter (occasionally). Whine on tapes 7 – 9 from central heating boiler. Leslie Russell C1046/05/01 F13773A Page 1 [F13773 Side A] Say my name and my date of birth, yes. Leslie Russell, 7th of May 1943. And where were you born? Born in Carshalton, in Surrey. Tell me about your family background. I’m one of six children, three boys, three girls. We lived on council estates mostly, well always. Went to state schools. We were I suppose what you would call a working-class family. What were your parents’ names? My mum was called Lillian and my dad Robert. And... Do you know how they met? No, I don’t know how they met, that’s not... I’ve got a cousin actually, he’s trying to do a family tree at the moment, you know, on the Net I believe, but I don’t really...I’ve got some, some history but not really how they met, no. And we never really... My father seemed to...he didn’t have any contact with his family at all, so I don’t know...I don’t know why, and I don’t know anything about his family. I know more about my mother’s family. Yup. They were, both come from Camberwell. I know a bit about my grandfather now, and my grandfather, but I don’t...my grandmother died when I was quite young, about nine I think, and I only remember seeing her once. And what did your maternal grandfather do? What did he do? I know he came from Le Havre, so he was French. He, it seems... It’s a bit unclear but I think he had two businesses, one was horse-drawn cabs, and the Leslie Russell C1046/05/01 F13773A Page 2 other was, which he definitely had, was a fruit and vegetable business, and I think he was probably supplying restaurants and things like that, and probably coming from France I would have felt. The other extraordinary thing, I’ve only just found out, is, they had thirteen children, and, one of whom died in the ’14-18 War, one of the boys, Frederick, their name was Perrault, and... I’m forgetting why I’m telling you this now. Oh yes. It seems, they never got married...(laughs)...which is... And I often wondered really; he probably had a wife in, in Le Havre I should think, and did a runner across the sea. I think that probably happened quite a lot. My mother... My elder sister knows more about it than I do, but my mother used to tell me she could remember when she was small when they lived in a house when they had servants and things. But then, he, the story is that he was embezzled of all of his money from his brother, and then the whole family ended up in the workhouse, where they had their heads shaved, and, and my grandmother apparently went out and scrubbed office floors and gradually got them all out again. It’s...I think my mum was very small, she doesn’t have a huge memory of that, but I think that was, must have changed their lives, you know, dramatically really. So, before she moved to Camberwell, where do you think... They were born there, both of them, I’ve seen their... I can’t remember the address but they were both born in that area. So, how they met, I’m not really sure, I’ve seen pictures of their wedding and so on. Yes, not a happy couple. So... And, I’m, as I said, one of six. We’re all divorced, which I think is, is... You know, I’m a great believer in, what happens to you when you’re small does shape your life and your decisions. So, yes, we’re very much the working-class family. And, where are you in...? Oh, I’m number four. I’m the youngest son, and I have two younger sisters. And my...we were like two groups of three; my next eldest sister is nine years older than me, and then I’ve got a brother who’s eighteen months older than her, and another brother who’s two years older than the...so there’s one older brother, next brother, then my sister. And then, I don’t know what happened for nine years, but then I came along. (laughs) And then two younger sisters. © The British Library Board Leslie Russell C1046/05/01 F13773A Page 3 And what sort of things do they do? What did they do? They were... My dad did all sorts. I can remember when I was little, he worked in a factory where they made toys, so, he worked on a lathe I think. I think he did any kind of job to, you know, just earn some money really. And where was the factory? That I don’t know, because we lived, until I was eleven we lived in Carshalton, where I was born, and Carshalton is, you know, next to Mitcham, and it’s very sort of, south London basically. And then, when I was eleven we moved to a place called Merstham, which is very near Redhill and Reigate, in the middle of nowhere, those awful council estates they built to offload people from London I think basically. Because when we were talking earlier before the tape about not feeling part of anything, that’s a bit of what I meant. I don’t really, not realising it, but we were sort of, not felt part of anything very really. So, that was quite extraordinary, because we... What happened then, it sounds like a long time ago, but people locally were kind of, some of them were very sort of country based, so we were a sort of, south London family, and I think again felt quite, not part of the whole thing. I remember going to school at that age with a very cockney accent, which everybody had, and then I went to a secondary modern school in the grammar stream where you’re supposed to do, it was the next best thing to going to a grammar school. And, just right from day one was in trouble, kind of, basically, one of those cockney kids who wasn’t going to back off to anybody, you know, I was always fighting, and, the first day I think I was up before the headmaster for three different kind of fracas sort of thing. And that was a lot of, I think just coming from London, you know, ‘You do you think you are?’ that kind of stuff. What was the name of the school? It was called Albury Manor, and it was in Merstham, which not many people have heard of. It’s literally about halfway between London and Brighton on the old Brighton road. I mean, you could drive through it and spit out the window, and you’d © The British Library Board Leslie Russell C1046/05/01 F13773A Page 4 gone past it. It was that kind of place. God knows why they moved there. The only thing I can imagine, you know, we had a bigger garden, and... I can’t, I can’t really think of why, you know. Because we, for someone of my age, I mean eleven, I had loads of friends, and local kids, and, that you just sort of left behind, which made it very difficult. Very difficult, that’s an over-exaggeration. So I can’t say that we enjoyed school, except that, fortunately for me, as I say, the problems I had on day one gave me a bit of a reputation of being, you know, a hard nut or whatever you want to call it. I was very good at football, which was actually what I really wanted to do. So I played football for the school, and, for the borough sometimes and things like that, which meant that you had some kind of status, especially with boys, you know, you can, if you can play sport you can get away with a lot of things.