Oral History Interview with Angela Monson

Oral History Interview

with

Angela Monson

Interview Conducted by Tanya Finchum April 2, 2007

Women of the Oklahoma Legislature Oral History Project

Oklahoma State University Library Women of the Oklahoma Legislature Oral History Project

Interview History

Interviewer: Tanya Finchum Transcriber: Jill Minahan Editors: Tanya Finchum, Juliana Nykolaiszyn

The recording and transcript of this interview were processed at the Oklahoma State University Library in Stillwater, Oklahoma.

Project Detail

The purpose of the Women of the Oklahoma Legislature Oral History Project is to gather and preserve memories and historical documents of women who have served or are currently serving in the Oklahoma Legislature.

This project was approved by the Oklahoma State University Institutional Review Board on November 10, 2006.

Legal Status

Scholarly use of the recordings and transcripts of the interview with Angela Monson is unrestricted. The interview agreement was signed on April 2, 2007.

Oklahoma State University Library Women of the Oklahoma Legislature Oral History Project

Angela Monson – Brief Biography

Angela Monson was born in 1955 to Herman and Epron Monson in Oklahoma City. Monson is one of only a few women who have served in both the Oklahoma House of Representatives, 1990-1993, and the Oklahoma Senate, 1993-2005. She left the Senate following the 2005 session due to term limits. In 2003 she became the first woman and first African-American assistant majority floor leader in the Oklahoma legislature. While in the legislature she sponsored many health care related bills including the mental health parity bill and was one of the chief architects of the Oklahoma Health Care Authority. She has a national reputation for her work on healthcare reform. Monson was interested in results rather than in who received the credit. She has received international recognition for her work in human rights and in women’s rights. Prior to elective office, Monson was a traveling city manager for a circuit of six primarily African-American towns in Oklahoma. She was also a fiscal analyst for the state legislature and was executive director of the Oklahoma Healthcare Project. In 2006 the Oklahoma Commission on the Status of Women presented Monson with the Kate Barnard Award, annually given to an outstanding woman in public service. Monson holds a Bachelor of Science in Corrections from Oklahoma City University and a Master of Science in Publication Administration from The University of Oklahoma. She is currently Associate Provost, Office of Community Partnerships and Health Policy at The University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center and is actively involved with parenting a niece and nephew.

Oklahoma State University Library Women of the Oklahoma Legislature: Past and Present Oral History Project

Angela Monson

Oral History Interview

Interviewed by Tanya Finchum April 2, 2007 Oklahoma City, Oklahoma

Finchum My name is Tanya Finchum. I’m working with the OSU Library on a project called, “Women of the Oklahoma Legislature, Past and Present.” This is April 2, 2007, and we’re at the University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center speaking with Angela Monson, who was in the House from 1991 to 1993 and the Senate from 1993 to 2005.

Monson That’s right.

Finchum We are so thankful that you were willing to talk with us today.

Monson Thank you very much, Tanya.

Finchum Okay. Well, let’s begin by giving us a little bit of background about your hometown, your youth...

Monson All right…I was born and raised right here in Oklahoma City. My parents are both native to Oklahoma. I say my mom is native, although she was born in Texas and moved here when she was just a couple of months old.

My dad was a fourth generation Oklahoman. His grandmother was born before statehood and so were several other relatives including his grandfather and his great-grandfather, so Oklahoma is, of course, home for me for a whole lot of reasons, and now that I’m old enough and have literally traveled the world, I choose to stay here. This is home.

I was educated in the Oklahoma City public schools. I attended my first year of college at the University of Oklahoma [OU] on a President’s Leadership Class scholarship. I ultimately chose a major, a major that was not offered at OU, unfortunately. So, after much negotiation with

my father, I was allowed to leave and walk away from what would have been ultimately a full-ride scholarship to go to Oklahoma City University, where I completed my undergraduate studies with a bachelor’s degree in criminal justice, although at that time, it was called law enforcement corrections.

After working as a probation parole officer for about a year in Shawnee, Oklahoma—loved the work, but if you can imagine Shawnee, Oklahoma back in the mid-seventies for this young twenty-one year old, it just wasn’t my cup of tea. I finally came to work back in Oklahoma City with a community corrections organization called CREO, the Council for Resocialization of Ex-Offenders. We provided transitional services to people being released from adult corrections institutions here in Oklahoma and ultimately expanded our program to include a juvenile justice program. I served as first director of that program, providing varying support services to young people who were basically court- ordered to our program, and other prevention kinds of activities. But I guess it was the experience at CREO and at the Department of Corrections that I realized I didn’t want to necessarily be the implementer of the rules, but thought it would be helpful to be the rule maker.

So, I went back to graduate school and attended the University of Oklahoma. I received a master’s degree in public administration, never intending, of course, at that time to be a lawmaker. I simply wanted to be one engaged in the development of public policy.

I worked for a short time as a traveling city manager. My graduate school track really was primarily focused in municipal management, budget and finance. And after being on the road about 3,500 miles a month between six small towns, I received a call from a state legislative staffer who said, “We’ve got a new job. Your name was given to me, highly recommended. Would you be interested in visiting?” And I thought, “Oh, what the hay. I’ll go in and talk with him.” It wasn’t that I didn’t like my traveling city manager’s job, but it was a job. It was a grind and enjoyed it very much, but I wanted to explore new opportunities.

I had a conversation with Mr. Paul McElvaney, a very good friend of mine now, I didn’t know him then, and he explained to me this new position as a fiscal staff analyst on a brand new committee, a joint committee on federal funds. This committee had the responsibility to track the receipt and expenditure of federal dollars of state agencies, determine the programmatic impact, and other kinds of things related to the receipt of federal dollars. And it sounded like a wonderful opportunity. So I ultimately, after some discussions and interviews with

various legislators said, “Yes,” and went to work for the Oklahoma state legislature as one of a very few joint employees at that time. It was right when the Oklahoma Senate and the Oklahoma House of Representatives had actually split their staffing.

My first boss was Roger Randall, who now works in higher education. I worked for Roger for that first year, and the next year Cleta Deatherage was the House Appropriations Committee chair. My bosses were the chairs of the Appropriations Committee and I crunched numbers along with program evaluations.

In the early eighties, when we had a new federal administration, executive administration, there were huge federal budget cuts. I realized that the greatest impact though, however, was not in state agencies but in community-based organizations. This led me to the Mary Mahoney Community Health Center. I became involved with Mary Mahoney, learned more about the program and the people who needed their services. I describe this because it was that experience which led me to this health policy track where I found myself.

So I continued to work for the legislature for about four years, still engaged in health policy activities, primarily as a volunteer, just learning the industry. Then I decided to run for office after seeing what went on in the state legislature. I thought, “I can do this, and maybe…” like we all think, “…can do it better than some who are there.”

I ran for office initially in 1984 and lost that race by 132 or so votes. It was very, very close and I was quite disappointed, but certainly could hold my head high because of the showing that we made. It was an excellent showing for a first-time contender against a very well-liked incumbent. After I lost that race, I didn’t have a job because, of course, I had to leave my job at the legislature to run. I was out of money because I spent all my savings in the campaign. I was really, really stressed and crying one day literally at my sister’s house, who very lovingly said to me, and I say that facetiously, “I don’t know why you’re sitting on my couch crying. What you need to do is get a plan. You need to get a job. Get a plan.” And I was somewhat shocked into reality and decided, “She’s right.” I needed a plan. I needed a job. I wanted to remain active in politics. I knew I’d run for office again, so I turned down several positions offered to me back at the state legislature and went to work selling insurance for the Equitable Life Insurance Company. This job provided flexibility and allowed me to actually pick up a couple of legislative lobbying contracts, which I did for community action agencies along with a group of community clinics.

My engagement with the community clinics had grown and grown. I had

learned more and more and coupled with my legislative experience, you know, we needed somebody at the Capitol. So I remained involved and learned more about the insurance industry. I mention that, too, because it was so valuable to my continued growth and development of information related to healthcare and how health insurance products were sold, or in this case, were not sold by the Equitable Life Insurance Company back in the mid-eighties because they realized then it was not a profitable business. It was very difficult to manage and was not their niche. So after two more bids—one more bid for the legislature, one more failed bid for the Oklahoma House of Representatives in 1988, I was finally successful in 1990.

Fortunately in 1986, a job was offered to me with the Oklahoma Healthcare Campaign—Oklahoma Healthcare Project is what it was called. It was the beginning of a consumer-based health advocacy initiative in Oklahoma funded then by the Villers Foundation. That foundation is now Families U.S.A., and I happened to sit on that board of directors. It is full circle again. But that four-year experience allowed me to hone my expertise in healthcare from a policy perspective, financial perspective, delivery systems, quality issues…never was a provider—thought I’d want to be, a long time ago, but I did learn more, did more, and had an opportunity to continue my work at the Capitol.

In fact, we were successful, the Oklahoma Healthcare Project, for the first large expansion of Medicaid income eligibility for children and pregnant women in the late 1980s. So it was a wonderful experience. Fortunately in 1990, when the incumbent chose not to run again, although I was not her chosen candidate to succeed her, we did a bang- up job in the 1990 race and I was able to move to the legislature, and the rest is history.

Finchum So the seat that you finally won, a woman had held it before?

Monson A woman had held that seat before, actually she had only been the second or third person in that seat—so history in both my senate seat, Senate District 48, and the house seat, House District 99, had a history of long-serving members who had been in those positions. I actually was only the third Senator to hold that post in the Senate District 48 seat…so it was great.

Freddye Williams was the incumbent, and it was kind of bizarre because she was a good family friend, a friend of my mom’s. I had much respect and admiration for her, so it wasn’t anything, and I really mean this—it wasn’t as if I thought she was doing such a terrible job, not at all. It was that I thought I had something to offer, and I think that’s an important message for women to always hear because we always think we have to

be against or not in favor of somebody or something to work in order to change it. Not necessarily—if we think we have the capabilities and the expertise and the skill set necessary to do a job and do it well, then we should move in that direction, and I did.

Finchum And your sister’s plan helped?

Monson And my sister…that was just that little touch, that little dose of reality. My sister, Denise, was thirteen months older than I am. Denise died in 1998 from lung cancer. She was a very young woman at 42 years old. She would have been 42 years old that year. She was the mother of two small children who came to live with me when she was ill. Those children were nine and eighteen months when they came to live with me. They’re now twelve and nineteen. My nephew/son—son/nephew is a freshman at Alpena Community College in Alpena, Michigan, and the then eighteen month old is now this driving-me-crazy twelve year old who is a sixth grader at a local high school, Northeast Academy for Health Sciences and Engineering.

Finchum So when you were in high school, did you ever think about being a politician?

Monson No, not to run for elective office, per se, however, I had my first experience running for elective office when I was age fourteen. It was so bizarre. When I was fourteen growing up in Oklahoma City, there were no African Americans on the Oklahoma City School Board, and there were issues—I mean this is the—before integration period and so there were issues in the district.

The Urban League at that time began this community-based initiative to create what was deemed a Black Board of Education. It was kind of a shadow board, and it was created more to make a statement about the lack of representation from this segment of the community. So there was one youth slot placed on this configuration of a board, and you actually had to run for office. So there were three of us who filed for this seat, and we ran campaigns and we worked hard. There were designated voting areas—I mean, it was just like a campaign, and I won that race at age fourteen, and that was my first—I tell people, my first experience with elective office.

And I grew up involved in school leadership activities like the student council and school district-wide leadership councils, but no running for political office as a chosen profession, a chosen career. It never, ever crossed my mind until I began my work with the legislature and really realized that I did have something to offer. But it was not something I thought about, and I think that’s important, too.

We need, the younger the better, to make sure young women understand that elective office, public service, governmental service, really is a great service choice for those people who are so inclined to want to move in that direction—and to start early, because there are so many difficulties. It’s hard for young women who want to have children and have a family to run for office, to be elected and move to Oklahoma City when your their kids are three and four and five years old or whatever age, at home in Tulsa, or Woodward or wherever—and to move here and live four days out of a week here for, you know, four, five, six months a year…it’s very difficult. We have to figure out as a society how we create opportunities for women. Other cultures have, not only do they have targets for women in elective office in the legislative bodies, they work really hard to create the kind of system to support what’s necessary so women can serve in that capacity. Unfortunately, we haven’t done the same in this country.

Finchum Were your parents involved in politics?

Monson Not really. My parents were not active in campaigns, although they talked politics. Politics was quite frequently discussed in our household. They were regular voters. My dad was very involved in community activities, and my mom was very, very involved in church activities—so they were service-minded parents, but I think I surprised all of us when I decided.

Maybe it wasn’t a surprise because my mom would tell stories about, when I was a little girl, how I brought friends home with me for lunch and was very proud to have these friends, as I described them, with me—and they were just kids. I remember this well—kids who I knew needed to eat, and my grandmother lived with us when I grew up and there were five kids, my mom, my dad and a grandma in this big house. It was a very loving, warm household, so I thought if a kid needed something to eat, come home with me. There’s always enough. There’s always somebody there, so my mom says she was never surprised. I was a little surprised, and I think the rest of my family was somewhat surprised, but not a family trait.

I don’t think there are others really growing up to become politicians. Maybe some of my little cousins. I’m not sure, but certainly my family has been really exposed to politics. My family was the core of my campaign, always … always was, and I attribute my success to the support and the love and the help that I received from my family.

Finchum And how much did you spend in your campaign’s…each time it probably cost more?

Monson Yeah. The first campaign in 1984 cost me basically all of my saved money, which was about $14,000. I may have raised another $3,000 or $4,000, so we’re talking about less than a $20,000 campaign. Lots of door knocking—and although all of my campaigns throughout included lots of door knocking, the cost of my last Senate race, which of course is a larger race than a House race, was about $70,000 to $75,000…still a whole lot less than what many senators now pay. Now, it’s not uncommon to see them spend maybe a couple of hundred grand in a senate seat so, it’s hard.

Finchum It’s hard.

Monson It’s hard now, raising money, you know. I couldn’t do it on that $14,000 I was able to save and have available to use back in 1984. Time really brings about a change.

Finchum Well, do you remember the first day that you stepped in and took office?

Monson Yes, in fact I look at that those pictures and I think, “You’ll never be able to wear that suit again.” (Laughter) It was about four sizes ago, I guarantee you. I remember that day well. I remember my family being present and all the people important to me being present, and the smiles and how I got to introduce them.

I also remember the sense of urgency and the sense of obligation…the sense of responsibility as you took the oath of office. It was a very moving experience for me, and I knew the Capitol. I mean, I had been in the building for ten years prior to taking the oath of office, but it was like a very unique transitional experience to understand now that it is your obligation. It is your responsibility to speak on behalf of those who cannot speak for themselves, to be prepared so when you are moving into a debate or a discussion about legislation, that your responses are correct if you are being questioned, and then your questions are appropriate if you are doing the questioning—so it was always very serious for me to be prepared, to do work, to be responsive. I was not a perfect legislator. None of us are perfect in anything that we do. I always wished I could be more timely with my phone calls. I always wished I was one of those people who remembered birthdates and all those things—to send nice cards to people. I didn’t do that—but I still think I was a pretty good legislator.

Finchum Do you have any idea how many bills you may have…

Monson Woo—passed?

Finchum Yeah, just a guess.

Monson Oh, I would say over fifteen years in the legislature, this is going to be a rough guess…let’s just say I introduced on an average, these are all going to be bills that I initiated, whether they are House or Senate bills—let’s say I introduced on an average, thirty, thirty-five bills a year and on an average, fifteen of them became law, for fifteen years, so you’re talking two hundred and twenty-five bills, maybe two hundred and fifty bills. That’s a pretty good track record. It probably is more than that if I actually did the count. Many of those bills though, the general public would be totally oblivious to. They are bills that helped the government internally operate more efficiently. They are bills that only a small segment of people would be interested in or concerned about, but there are a few out there that really made a difference in people’s lives, and that I appreciate having that opportunity.

Finchum Can you name a few of them?

Monson Well, let me just name a few of the primary ones because I feel good about them. The Mental Health Parity Bill is a bill that began the process. It was not all that we wanted, but it was a huge start to ensure insurance companies and other healthcare insurance providers and coverage providers, treated mental illness...biologically-based mental illness, as any other illness.

Just because the disease is in the brain…does that mean that, that person is less deserving than an individual whose disease began in the heart or in the lungs or some other part of the body? So we were able to pass legislation, and it took almost four years of really, really hard work fighting the insurance industry and the coverage industry, having to— you know, the whole concern went across the gamut—the chambers, employers, everybody who just knew this would raise the cost of insurance. Well, we had numbers that already proved in other states where similar legislation was passed, even more expensive legislation was passed, that there was no increase in the cost of insurance attributable to this change. So it took a long time, but that made a big difference. And then people, instead of having five visits a year or thirty days of inpatient treatment, it was treated just like any other physical illness, which—when I read the letters and talked to family members who had loved ones who were suffering from various mental illnesses, I knew it was the right thing.

One of the other bills we did was a continued expansion of Medicaid eligibility for pregnant women and children that directly gave more access to healthcare services to more people. And that was why I went into the legislature…to start really, really working hard on assuring that every Oklahoman had some guaranteed access to healthcare services. That’s what took me there, and that’s what we worked hard on.

The Prescription Drug Authority Bill for advanced practice nurses, I thought was important—and people don’t realize it. You go to the doctor, you see the nurse/midwife or you see the advanced practice/pediatric nurse, and they could see you and diagnose you and know what you need, but couldn’t give you the script. So we were able, and, again, there’s a lot of years of fighting for that bill, we were actually able to pass legislation that gave these advanced practice nurses under the guidance and the protocols established by a supervising physician, the authority to write prescription drugs for things that they knew and that they could very easily prescribe medications for.

So I think those, and there are any number of bills along that line— including some tax bills, that I am pretty proud of. There are other bills related to financing of things that I am also very proud of, but I think if someone were to ask me choose two or three, those would be the two or three that stand out. No one knows I did them and that’s okay. It was not done for credit, but I guarantee you they really did change the course of life for a whole lot of folk.

Finchum Any that you tried to pass that didn’t get passed?

Monson Yeah.

Finchum Major disappointments?

Monson Of course. The very first…my very first year at the legislature, who could ever forget that? Since I went to the legislature addressing healthcare issues, my very, very first big bill that year was a bill to create universal healthcare access. It was a single-payer plan bill, and it was pretty direct to implement. Keep in mind this is 1985, the session of 1985, and I really introduced it to begin the dialogue. I never anticipated that it would pass, but we got it out of House committee and then we moved to the House floor, and it was a four-plus hour debate on this bill. So, yes, we definitely raised the level of discussion, but as things turned out, there was a possibility that it was going to pass.

I was surprised, given the debate and given the questions, and when it actually came down to vote, we were within thirteen votes of passing a single-payer bill in the Oklahoma House of Representatives in 1985. It was just amazing. The gallery was full of people, about 300 supporters of the legislation and one of those members was my mom. I’ll never forget the comment when I came down to meet the supporters and the folk who were there, including my mom. She gave me a hug and the tears welled in my eyes, of course—and, you know, just feeling like I had disappointed them. I’d let all these people down who thought that I could do something to really improve access to healthcare services.

Little did they know, years later, of course, we would do lots of things that improved access to health care services. Like the mobile 9-1-1 bill which allows you to call 9-1-1 from your cell phone and the emergency personnel will be able to have a read on your actual geographical location. It was a process of negotiations that I had an opportunity to lead and my bill created the foundation that now gives people a way to dial 9-1-1 on your cell phone and they’ll know just where you are. So those are things we’ve done.

But the other big disappointment, I mention these two because they were my first year disappointments…this one had to do with gun control. It was again 1985 in Oklahoma and I had a corrections/law enforcement type background, so I knew a little about this stuff and I remember thinking how important it was to place some limitations on people’s ability to access weapons, hand guns, and make sure they were appropriately regulated. Not to take them away, but to regulate appropriately.

We introduced what now is known as the Brady Bill, but this was before the days. We introduced this bill and, sure enough, we got to committee and I was excited. I had done my homework. I had the chief of police from Oklahoma City there to testify. I had the person who was the district attorney at the time there. I had all of these experts there to talk about why we know for a fact that creating some regulation of hand gun possession really did help reduce violence and create a safer environment. It was a great presentation. The committee meeting was great. There were a few questions asked, and everything went smoothly until it was time to make the motion to pass the bill. And, of course, I was a committee member so, after all of the debate and the questions and answers and everything was said, I was recognized and made the usual motion, “Do pass on the bill,” and there was silence. Not one other committee member said anything. No second. No substitute motion like, “Do not pass,” or “Report progress,” which could have come…that would have at least kept the idea out there. I got nothing, total silence and the committee—you could have heard a pin drop in this committee room that was full of people. So after the motion failed for lack of a second, the bill just stayed in committee. The chair told me afterward, “The only reason why I heard the bill is because you’re a committee member and I really like you, but I never thought it would pass.” He said, “I knew it wouldn’t pass.” That was really disappointing because we had worked really hard. Of course, now, what I had proposed then is now the law, so I was just maybe a few years ahead of my time. But I’ll never forget those experiences because I learned lots of things as a result thereof.

I learned from the gun control bill to make sure, not only do you do your

homework to determine what the support should be and what the dialogue would be to support this legislation…really do your homework to know what the opposition believes, thinks, and who they are. As a rule, I know the rules of social change. I went to the Midwest Academy for Social Change in Chicago, Illinois. I know what some basic rules are, and I failed to apply those rules. In terms of the Healthcare Reform Bill, the Single-Payer Bill, I learned, you know—you’d be surprised how many things can become law so don’t just anticipate that it won’t happen, therefore you don’t do the kind of work you should do. Anticipate that it will and be prepared, so it’s a matter of preparation, and I guarantee I was made a better legislator throughout the rest of my career because of those two experiences.

Finchum Did you do your own research or did you have someone…

Monson Well, we have legislative staffers, researchers who for the most part, draft bills. We have legal staffers, fiscal staffers, all of whom can do research for us, but having been a staffer for the legislature, it was real easy for me to revert back into that role and do my own research, which I did do a lot of. I was dependent on staff, too, but I know they’re busy and we didn’t have our own individual staff. They had, in the case of the House, 100 other members possibly making certain requests and demands upon their time. So it was not unusual for me to do my own research, to contact some folk that I knew and to develop some things that would provide the kind of support I needed. It was not unusual for me to even begin to draft language of a bill because I had done it before. Members don’t routinely do that. They didn’t then. They definitely don’t anymore.

Finchum Well, describe a typical day. How early did you show up at the office?

Monson Oh, at the time I was elected, I had no children. I was single, footloose and fancy free, and was excited about going to work every day, so it was not unusual at all for me to show up at the Capitol building around 7:30 or 8:00am and definitely not unusual for me to be there until 8:30 or 9:00pm at night.

I loved it and, in fact, I’ll never forget when I moved to the Senate. The leader of the Senate at that time, Stratton Taylor, used to always tell me, “There is life after the legislature. It’s not in this building. You need to begin to develop things that provide a life for you, and we don’t mean a living, we mean a life…a life for you after you live here, after you leave here,” and that was really, really good advice because it was not unusual to spend twelve to fourteen hours a day at the Capitol. I found myself after I was elected working almost the same schedule as during the campaign, which was all day long. In fact, you might leave and go to

dinner or go to an event and come back, but I would come back to work. In 1996, when my sister got sick, life did change for me because kids came into my life, which was a very good thing. It put things in perspective. So instead of doing, you know, twelve, fourteen hour days, they became more eight to ten hour days. Well, it was never a normal life. Life in the legislature is never normal and never ends. It is seven days a week. The phone rings. I stayed listed in the phone book. People, when they call you, they don’t call to say, “Thanks, you’re doing a great job. I appreciate it.” They call because they have problems, so every call is additional work and every call is an opportunity to be compassionate and nice and kind to somebody even when you can’t help and you have to tell them there’s nothing you can do. But that was a part of my job and responsibilities. I never regretted it, all the things that I did. I was afforded many wonderful opportunities. We could talk more about the National Conference of State Legislatures and, you know, I don’t regret it. It was hard work. It consumed your life. I tell people, “You have no personal life.” And I would do it again, knowing what I know now, I would definitely do it again, but I can also say now that it’s over, “Glad it’s over.”

Finchum Well, how many women served with you at the time you were in?

Monson Not many, not many at all. Not many in the House. Fortunately, I had an opportunity to serve with some wonderful women. Laura Boyd came in a year after me, the two year cycle after me but Carolyn Taylor, then it was Carolyn Thompson, was in the legislature. Linda Larason, Debbie Blackburn…there were wonderful women and there were, I’m just trying to think, when I went into the House if there were any republican women? I can’t think back that far, but there were a few of us [women], and the numbers have remained pretty constant. They’ve grown. The numbers have grown, but Oklahoma’s place in the bigger scheme of things in the world has not really changed at all in terms of women in the legislature.

Most of the women that I served with in the Senate were older women who had raised their families and didn’t have small children. I was really the only woman, until toward the end, with small children at home. It was easier for me because I lived right here in Oklahoma City. It was like just making arrangements while you go to work but it was much more difficult for many of them. We never had a women’s caucus, an organized women’s caucus, the whole time I served. Maybe party politics came into play too hard. We’ve attempted to, and there are attempts right now to do so, and I hope they can do that, even if it’s just a place where women in the legislature can come and share some of the same difficulties that we have on both sides of the aisle. From dealing with a male-dominated environment to just sharing strategies for raising

kids, balancing home and professional life, and maybe not talk as much about issues if there are certainly huge gaps or huge places of disagreement. But the women’s caucus, I think, is important. I regret that we did not have an organized women’s caucus during the time that I served in the legislature.

Finchum Well, did you do things outside of your normal day, with just the women?

Monson No, not really.

Finchum There wasn’t time, I guess.

Monson Not really. You know, you learned to play with the big boys as they would say. But there was this level of mutual support and admiration. You always had a friend.

There were mentors for me, women mentors, who I knew I could always go to. Senator Maxine Horner from Tulsa, when I went into the Senate, was certainly one that helped me around, and Senator Horner had been around politically. She worked for a congressman and she knew the ropes, but she was just a good calming force for me in the legislature. So yes, we did things. You found friends and compadres that you did things with that did lend to the development of relationships between women in the legislature. I really look forward to the day when women are proportionately represented in legislative bodies. I just think the whole outcome of the legislative process will be so different, and better. Let me quickly say, “Not just different, but better.”

Finchum And how soon do you think that will happen? (Laughs)

Monson Maybe not in my lifetime, you know. It’s just hard because the job itself does not lend well to what traditionally women view as a career opportunity for them.

I was visiting with a lobbyist friend of mine who has a soon to be four- year-old son. She lives in the Tulsa vicinity. Not in Tulsa, but the Tulsa vicinity. It was easy when the baby was small and she would go home or spend a day during the week at home. Hubby would bring the baby here [Oklahoma City], and her mom and the baby would stay in the city a few days with her. And maybe, one night or one day would go by that she didn’t see the small child. Well, now the baby is almost four, so it’s time for school and a more consistent program. Now, she faces a huge dilemma. You know, “Do I really go away and stay away from home three, four days out of the week and just leave dad there to nurture him? Or do I have to make a big career choice and figure out how I can stay at

home? Or…” Moving to Oklahoma City was not an option because family support opportunities in that area, so it’s difficult.

I’ll tell you this…it won’t happen until we can have workplace daycare much more available. It won’t happen until men realize that they, too, just like women can raise families and do a pretty doggone good job at it, you know, because when male legislators leave home and are gone four days out of the week, mom is at home raising children. No one says, “Oh, that’s not a good thing.” So it’s a mindset change and then just trying to deal with this guilt that women feel.

You know, I feel it now when I travel sometimes and leave the kids at home or with—of course, they’re not home by themselves, they’re in the care of others who really love them, but it’s like, “But that’s my job and I should be there.” So, we have a whole lot of things internally and externally to deal with.

And the key though, I think, really is to start with women when they’re much younger girls and opening this up as a career opportunity. It’s just like the sciences, where girls never thought they could be physicians…it was always a nurse, you know? Well, we can be lots of things, but we have to start with them young to explore and share with young women these concepts. So, if I had an opportunity and was going to build a program to get more women into elective service, it wouldn’t start at college, which is great, I mean, we need to do that, but it would start at third or fourth grade. There should be these routine kinds of encounters with young girls and public service and elective office. It would be to brand this profession with them as a logical, reasonable profession, to really make a difference in the world that they exist.

Finchum Sounds like a new plan needs to come along.

Monson Well, one of these days…one of these days I have a whole long list of things to do, like write a book and start a foundation, so that’s why I have to live until I’m about 120 to accomplish all these goals.

Finchum And you stated earlier you’d like to do a PhD. That’ll come in handy, too.

Monson Yeah, that’ll come in handy. Now that I’m in my new job at OU Health Sciences Center in the world of academics, I always thought I’d want to go back to school, but, you know, it becomes probably more critical in this kind of environment than others. And it’s been thirty years since I began graduate school so the thought of going back to college actually is very exciting, on one hand, because I love the dialogue. I teach some. I love the dialogue. I love the interaction in the classroom. I love the

reading, and I really wouldn’t even mind doing the papers and the research, so I think—so why am I being apprehensive? Well, it’s new and it’s different and it’s a commitment of time that’s blocked off on a calendar that you can’t fudge and say, “Well, I’ll come back to it later.” You’ve got to be there in that classroom and maybe that’s what my life needs is, you know, more structure right about now. That’s really a joke. But life is good. We—we’ll come back. I want to talk about my experiences with the National Conference of State Legislatures. I don’t want to forget that one.

Finchum Well, go ahead.

Monson Okay. NCSL—the NCSL, of course …

Finchum Stands for?

Monson The National Conference of State Legislatures, which is, as the tag line goes, “The premiere organization representing all fifty state legislatures and legislatures of U.S. territories, with several international affiliate members.” NCSL provides research and other support and technical assistance for and to state legislators and their staffers. It’s a very large organization that is comprised of all legislators.

By virtue of their election to office, legislators become members of NCSL. It is the place that elected officials go in the state and sometimes executive branch, too, but certainly legislative leaders and legislators for information. It is also the place for staffers to go to when they’re looking for research, comparative information, or to look and see what’s happening in the world of state legislatures, like bills being passed. We don’t do model legislation. It’s simply a clearinghouse and a place to share info.

NCSL is no older than twenty-five, twenty-six years old—I can’t remember how old we are now, but I had the distinction of serving as the first African American female president of that organization and actually the first woman that served the complete four year cycle as an officer. I was elected at the vice-president’s slot, which is where the election actually occurs, and then it’s a four-year continuation as an officer. The only other woman that had ever been elected in that vice-presidency slot left to go to Congress. She left the legislature to run for a congressional seat and she was successful. So it was important for me to show that a woman could hold this role. It’s a very, very busy role.

When I was NCSL president, I probably traveled 200, 225, 250,000 miles in one year, and it was for three years, just like a mad race—it was just like, always on the go. You know, couple that with your home

legislative responsibility, add a national responsibility to it, and you realize how busy one gets. I don’t regret it at all, and it did afford me the opportunity to travel around the world, to meet with presidents, to meet with other heads of state, to talk about the value of the state legislature as a provincial legislature to the whole process of making social change and creating public policy. It’s a wonderful experience, including the friends that you meet, but the knowledge you gain about how the world can be different, the insight that you gain.

NCSL is an opportunity to become more exposed to different ways of doing things and different ways of thinking about things. I think therein lies the ability of this country to compete globally, this exposure to teach and make sure people understand that the world is not narrow. It’s not narrowly focused, and we don’t all think alike. But it’s extraordinarily broad, with lots of ideas and thoughts about how government should work, about how people should be represented. None of them are bad, per se. None of them are good, per se. They just are, and they are different, and I think once we come to the realization that there are many ways to govern, depending on the history of the people and depending on where the people are—many ways to govern that are not abusive, that are not controlling—I mean, there are other opportunities, and that we think differently, we become better legislators.

So my experience with NCSL, I think, made me a better Oklahoma legislator. It put me in touch with a whole bunch of folk that helped me become a better advocate for Oklahoma and on the national level. There were advantages to Oklahoma as well while I was in that position. But it was a wonderful experience that I really, really enjoyed and would again do again if afforded the opportunity, but only one year…only one year not four. That’s enough.

Finchum Do you anticipate going further, like into Congress, or should I not ask that?

Monson Oh, no. That’s a fair question. I get asked that question all the time.

Finchum Is that a possibility?

Monson Am I going to pursue other elective office? You know, a year ago I would have quickly answered that question, “No,” and wouldn’t have even thought about it. It would have been a definite, “No.” I like having my life again. I like having my privacy—you know, being able to schedule things and do things that are for kids or for family or for whomever. I just like not being under total scrutiny all the time or feeling the obligation to always be available and to go and to be, you know, and to speak to, or whatever the job demanded. However, in the

last few months, there’s this sense again, this same overwhelming feeling of obligation and responsibility.

As you look around and see the many, many issues that all of us are confronted with, and you think, “Well, maybe there is something I could do. Maybe there is a role for me to play in coming to some resolution, whether it’s on violence in our communities, whether it’s the dismal graduation rate of students in Oklahoma, whether it’s the extremely high remediation rate that’s needed when kids go to college—therefore, we know they’re not learning what they need to learn in their secondary and elementary training. Whatever it might be that I know is having a huge and extreme effect on our society, on our culture, that maybe I have a responsibility to do something. Well, of course, being in elective office gives you the bully pulpit. It gives you the forum. It gives you the clout that you need to begin talking about some of these issues and put a concrete plan on the table to address these issues. So will I run for elective office again? I’m not going to say no. I can say I don’t have anything in mind. I can also say I wouldn’t want to be one of 435, if you know what I mean. That says Congress is probably off the table. Not a bad idea to be one of 100, but I’m not announcing a U.S. Senate race either.

There are a lot of good candidates out there that are contemplating upcoming elections and, for now, I’m really, really enjoying what I do at the University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center. The opportunity to change the course of the future as it relates to healthcare. Not only am I involved with policy issues, not legislative, but policy issues that make this campus and our programs more responsive to a diverse population, I also have the wonderful opportunity in our division here to ensure a diverse population of students, faculty and staff here at OUHSC.

We don’t fare well in Oklahoma, at the University of Oklahoma, in our recruitment of what we consider underrepresented minorities, whether they’re racial or ethnic or income status minorities. We don’t do that well. It’s a pretty much homogeneous group of students around this campus. So my boss, Dr. Joe Ferretti, I know has for years, since he came here to this post, had great concern and great desire to change the hue of the campus…to make us look more like a community, a community of people we serve. So it is a wonderful opportunity. I even get a chance to work with fifth graders, with eleven year olds, twelve year olds, to talk to them about becoming health scientists…whether it’s a researcher or a provider or whatever it might be. So, I feel that I’m being well used here. I feel a sense of satisfaction here.

I’m not pushing or encouraging or asking anybody to think with me about running for elective office. If the opportunity clearly presents itself

and it’s clear that it was of no doing or making of my own, kind of like divine intervention…well, then maybe I would consider it. But we’re just waiting and seeing, waiting. Patience is a virtue, my friend. Remember that always … always.

Finchum Well, is there anything I need to ask you that I haven’t or anything you want to talk about that we haven’t?

Monson I’ve been talking a long time.

Finchum No, you’re doing good. Well, when history is written about you, what would you like for it to say?

Monson That’s interesting, it’s like, “What do you want it to say on your grave marker?” Actually, I think I would like people to remember me for being a people person, being regular—you know, maintaining—really maintaining the grounding and the values that my mom and dad taught me about relationships, one with another.

I don’t want to be remembered for things that I did singularly because, as a sole participant, I probably have not done much. But as an individual working with, sometimes leading, sometimes following others, I think we’ve accomplished a lot of things. You know, I was NAACP president in Oklahoma City for a period of time before going to work at the legislature and during my early years working for the legislature, and I’ve had opportunities to see great need, the great need that so many people have in so many ways, and yet to some extent it’s better now than it was thirty, forty years ago, but in many instances it’s worse now than it was then. So if people can just remember me for the work that I did with and for others, that would be great. But if they don’t remember me at all, and this is what I tell folk, the chances are you know, fifty years, twenty-five years…someone said even two years after I die, people just may not remember you at all, and that’s okay. You know, that’s okay. Not that I will be bothered with that, I guarantee you, in the afterlife. That will not bother me. But as long as people continue to benefit from the things that I’ve done there in lies the ability to be remembered. So that really is what I’m seeking for, just to be a steward, good steward of time, good steward of resources given to me, to understand that, you know, we as a people are so interconnected.

I walk into a room of students, of elementary school students, of pre- school students, and I look at their faces and I think what wonderful potential…what wonderful potential rests right in this room to discover cures to terrible diseases, to become wonderful teachers that enlighten and create a desire to learn among other young people. It’s all right in this room, so what are we going to do to make sure that happens? You

know, what is it that we as individuals contribute to the nature of things to make sure that happens? And this is pretty heavy duty and sounds so philosophical and pie-in-the-sky, but it is what drives me—I guarantee you it is that thought, that philosophy, that vision, that spirit that drives me and, without question, it is in the spirit.

I have strong spiritual beliefs. I have strong convictions about why we were created and what our mission is in life. I have strong, strong beliefs that God empowers us to do things and places us where we should be, and our job is to do it. Our job is to do it. So that’s my sense of who I am. Life is good.

If I can just say this to end…2005, the year I left the legislature, was a huge transition year for me, the smallest of which was leaving the legislature. My significant other, Robert, Dr. Kennedy, my twenty-year partner, was diagnosed with lung cancer in December of 2004. He was not a smoker. I did not smoke. He was one of the very small numbers of folk who contract lung cancer for no reason to be determined, and Robert died ten months after his diagnosis.

Six weeks prior to Robert’s death, my mom unexpectedly died. My brother, during 2005, had several amputations, he was a diabetic—life was just hard. It was really, really hard for me in 2005. But I persevered. I never gave up. Even going through difficult times, I always knew that things would be better. And the Sunday after my mom’s Friday death, my mom was a minister, was a preacher, was a pastor of a church…I found a manuscript that she had written some time ago. It was on a small piece, small page, small papers that she used to write on when she first started writing, and the title was, “Life goes better with faith. Believe and receive.” Now, she spoke directly to my heart about the complications and difficulties in life, about the necessity to continue to be faithful and to believe that things will turn out all right as you go through these difficult times, and those words did sustain me during some very difficult times. It made me draw on the faith that I knew about, that I had experienced, that had grown in my heart and in my mind because it is an intellectual exercise, you see, to believe things that you cannot see. It is very intellectual, and to utilize that and to know for certain that things would be better, and to be able today, now some eighteen months or so later, to simply say, “Life is really good. I am very happy.”

Opportunities have been opened to me that I never would have imagined. People love me that I never would have imagined. People are caring for me and I have the opportunity to care back and still move toward the mission of changing lives for people and contributing any way I can. So life is good. Even after the legislature, life is very, very

good.

Finchum Well, thank you so much for sharing that with us today.

Monson You’re very welcome. I’m glad to do so.

------End of interview------