1

1896.

VICTORIA.

FROM

THE PAHLIAMENTARY .STANDING COMMITTEE ON RAILW·AYS

ON THE

PROPOSED. RAIL W A. Y

l<'ROllI

RUPAN.YUP TO .MARNOO;

. TOGETHER WITH THE

APPENDICES AND MINUTES OF }iVIDENCE.

Ordered by the Legislative Assembly to be printed, 22nd July, 1896.

~ , ...... ~ " ... ~ ~

BOBT. S. BRAIN, GOVERNMENT PRINTER, lItELBOURmL R.AILWAYS STANDING COMMITTEE REPORT No. 1.-[2s.] EXTRACTED FROM THE VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

THURSDAY, 13TH FEBRUARY, 1896 • ......

; 3. RuPAN,yup TO MUNOO R. .HLwAY.-Mr. H. R Williains, in accordance with the requirements of the Railways Standi~g Committee Acts, moved, pursuant to notice, .That the construction of a line of railway from u,upanyup to Marooo be referred to the Parliamentary Standing Committee on.Railways for'consideration and report. Debate ensued, Question-put and resolved in the affirmative.

------_._"---

MEMBERS OF THE PARLIAMENTARY STANDING COMMITTEE ON RAILWAYS.

(Third Committee.)

E. H. CAMERON,· Esq., M.L.A., Chairman; ; The Hon. J. Buchanan, M.L.C., I The H.0n. D. Melville, M.L.C. (Vice- J. B. Burton, Esq., M.L.A., . Chrurman), A. W. Craven, Esq., M.L.A., I The Hon. E. Morey, M.L.C., A. Harris, Esq., M.L.A., W. A. Trenwith, Esq., M.L.A., J. S. White, Esq., M.L.A.

APPROXIM:ATE OOST OF REPORT. £, s. d. tlompllation " •• . Nil Printing (810 copies) 60 0 0 " The oompil&tion was a portion of the work of the Clerk of CO!lllllittees, who is paid by QJluUAl salary. 3

RUPANYUP TO MARNOO RAILWAYo

RJEJPOR'ro

THE PARLIAMENTARY STANDING COMMITTEE ON RAILWAYS, to which the Legislative Assembly referred the proposed line of railway from Rupanyup to Marnoo, have the honour to report as follows :-

1. This railway is 20' miles in length; the ruling grade is 1 in 75, and the Lengtho!line. sharpest curve 20' chains radius. Rupanyup, the proposed starting point, is the present =: :,rves. terminus of the spur line which runs in a north-easterly direction from Lubeck, a ~tation on the Melbourne and Serviceton railway, distant 175 miles from Melbourne, 156;i miles from Geelong, 101 miles from Ballarat, and 25;i miles from Stawell. The proposed extension continues in a north-easterly direction for about 1O! miles when it runs nearly due, east past the south side of the township of Banyena, which is 11'16 miles from Rupanyup. The surveyed route then turns gradually in a south-easterly direction till it reaches the proposed terminus, in the parish of Marnoo, at a point about 191 miles from the town of St. Arnaud on the l\faryborough and Donald railway. '

2. The railway proposals submitted to Parliament in 1890' included two lines Orlginotthe to serve the northern portion of the district lying between the Ararat-Murtoa and the ~~:~~~te. Maryborough-Donald railways, viz. :- Length-Miles. Estimated Cost lu1890. Stawell, via Wallaloo, to St. Arnaud railway... 49'15 £290',425 Rupanyup, via Banyena, to Cope Cope railway 26'65 139,935

Total 75'8.0' £430,360' These two railways were referred to the first Railways Standing Committee, and s~6meslti.i1d·' remitted by that body to a Sectional Committee, which reported that there was a large ~~ne:Re~rt; agricultural district lying along the valley of the Richardson River which had strong claims to railway communication, but that the lines proposed were not the best that could be suggested under the circumstances. The Sectional Committee stated further that, in their opinion, it was not expedient to construct either the line from Stawell to St. Arnaud or the line from Rupanyup to Cope Cope, as the district could be served at a much lower cost by one line running from Rupanyup to St. Arnaud, through the parishes of Banyena, Marnoo, and Gre Gre. The Railway Department was then asked to ·h3;ve a survey made of this line, in order that an es~imate of its cost might be furnished. The Rupanyup to Mal'noo flli1W:ty now proposed forms portion of the through line suggested by the {L;:;t ()ommittee.

3. In view of the foreg-oing facts, the present Committee have made inquiries, Inquiries of not only regarding the Rupanyup to Marnoo line, but also with reference to various ~=\tee. routes now suggested to serve the country lying between the two existing railways to Murtoa and Donald. The routes which have been inspected are- . 1 Rupanyup, via Banyena, to Marnoo and' St. Arnaud. Glenorchvto Wallaloo and St. Arnaud. Avoca, via Moonambel, Navarre, and Wallaloo, to Banyena. Evidence has been taken regarding these routes, and the capabilities of the country traversed by them, at Melbourne and in the district at Stawell, Glenorchy, Wallaloo, Banyena, M~rnoo, St. Arnaud, Avoca, and several other places. The Minutes of Evidence are attached hereto. A cQPY of a report on the whole district SeeAppendixH. by the Engine~r-in-Chief, who paid a special visit to the locality in 1893, is also appended...... 4: The line from Avoca would traverse the centre of the country lying between .Avooato the t wo ex IS. t"1mg raJ. ways prevIOUS. Iy mentIOne . d ,an d , f rom t h at pomt . 0 f'VIew, wou Id b e Bauyeuaroute. the best to· serve the district most remote from railway facilities at present; but, between IV

Moonambel and Navarre, a distance of about 16 miles, the line would pass through a lot of, poor rangy country which wo(ild furnis~l very little traffic for a line, and where raIlway building would be expensive. The population alo[w-this portion of the route is principally a mining one, there being vel'y little agricu1tur~ settlement. .

Descriptiono! country north 5. From Navarre northwards th~ country

. Annua.llossoft , 6. ,'Vere it not for the ,existence of the spur line fr0111 Lubeck to Rupanyup,' .~~~:'~~~.llne. the hest way to serve the settlers iJ;l the agricultural district which runs from "the , parish of. Morrl ¥orrl to ,the parish of Rich Avon 'Vest would be by the construction 9f a line branching offfrom the main Serviceton line ,at either Glenorchy or 'Val 'Val, running thence to a point south of Wallaloo, and thence to Banyena. ,.' The existence of the Lubeck to Hupanyup line, however, is a fact which cl}nnot be overlooked in the consideration of the question of supplying railway facilities ,to the Richardson Valley. ' This spur line is only 9i miles in length, and its capital cost stands at £45,000. At present it does not pay working expenses, and when the interest on the cost of construction is added to the loss on working there is an annual' deficit of upwards of £2,000 on this railway, which can never pay as it stands 'at present.

Jlupanyup to 7. The extension of the Lubeck-Rupanyup line for 20 miles to Marnoo, which Me.ri1oo exre~sion. is the proposal submitted to the Committee, is estimated by the Engineer-in-Chief to cost £55,331, or £2,767 per mile, exclusive of land and rolling-stock. See AppendixA. The Acting Victorian Railways Commissioners bave supplied an estimate of the probable revenue and working expenses, as follows :- Working expenses ...' £1,604 Estimated revenue from the extension £1,045 Estimated revenue for carriage over existing railways of new traffic arising from the extension : .. 368

Total revenue 1,413

Deficit on working 191 Tnt,erest on capital expended, at 3~ per cent.... 1,937

..Leav,ing.an annltal defici~n~y of , , ..'_.' '." . £2,128. "J 5

Y'"

The, estimated .cost of tliis line, which passes through, easy country. where '" there are no engineering, difficulties, might be considerably reduced; but it will be seen that the probable revenue will not cover the working expenses. ' , The construction of the sectioll between Banyena and l\1arnoo-about 9 miles ~,would add very little to the utility of the line, although it would greatly increase the capital cost. The estimate of revenue furnished by the Acting Commissioners is not, in. the ;opinion of the Committee, an under estimate, as the, line would not be made nse of by the "\Vallaloo, diRtrict, as already explained.

, 8. In addition to the estimates of revenue and expenditure for the Rupanyup Rupanyup. vi

3,547 Less estimated loss for di version of traffic from existing lines . 866t

Total' revenue ' 2,681

Deficit on working' ... , 231 Interest on cap~tal expended, at 3t per cent. 3,868

Leaving an annual defi,ciency ot ,"" .£4,099

9. As it appeared from the estimates furnished by the Acting Commissioners Rupanyup to that neither the extension of 20 miles to Marnoo nor the through line from Rupanyup ~tin~?:n. to St. Arnaud would pay working expenses, the Committee asked to be supplied with estimates for an extension to the township of Banyena, which is 11'16 miles from Rupanyup. , ' ' , The Engineer-in: Chief estimated the cost of this Hne "at £29,854, or £2,675 per See Appendix I. mile, exclusive of laud· and rollillg-stock. The Victorian Railways Comillissioner (Mr. Mathieson) furnished the follow- Bee AppendixG, ing estimate of revenue and working. expenses :-- Locomotive expenses ... £61 Traffic expenses ... 86 Permanent-way expenses 672 --- '. <'. Total working expenses ... £819 t· Estimated revenue from the extension £747 Estimated revenue for carriage over exist- ing railways of new traffic arising from the extension ...... 457 --- Total revenue ... 1,204 --- . ') Profit on working .•• ... • •• 385 Interest on capital expended, at 3~ per cent. 1,045 --- Deficit after paying annual interest on £29,854 £660

t See Appendices D and E. !rbeestlmatesolrevenue and ' 10. All the lines remitted to the Committee hitherto 'have showed a deficit on.. ~x,;:;~~i!Ure> the annual cost of working, apart altogether from the interest on the capital expended; extension. As the extension to Banyena shows a profit on working, the Committee have endeavoured to see wh~ther the capital proposed to be expended on the line could not be reduced. The Engineer-in-Chief was asked to revise the estimate of £29,854 first submitted, and to prepare an estimate for a less expensive railway, with second.,;· hand 60-1b. rails. An estinlate was then submitted for an unfenced line at £21,792; or for a fenced line at £23,352. If' the line were built at this latter cost the annual interest charged would be reduc~d from £1,045 per annum to £817. The Committee find that the annual cost of maintenance on the existing spur from Lubeck amounts to £50 per mile, while the estimate submitted fOf the new line is over £60 per mile, It is not unreasonable to expect that the permanent-way expenses for t.his new line should be kept within t.he sum of £50 per mile per annUmi The estimated revenue £i'om the carriage of live stock is put down as nil, while th~ e~timate of cost provides for truckiug.-yards at Banyena. The dist,rict raises a lot of fat stock, and the evidence of the farmers andgraziers shows that they will send fat. sheep and cattle from Banyena. If these items' are taken into consideration the estimated annual deficiency would be reduced as follows :-' Locomotive expenses .. . £61 Traffic expenses .. . 86 Permanent-way expenses, estimated at £pO per mile instead of £60 per mile 558

Total working expenses £705

Estimated annual revenue £1,204 Add live stock traffic, say 50

£1,254 Total. . revenue' •••

Profit on working ... £549

. Interest on capital of £23,352, at 3~ per cent. £817

Deficit ~~.. . £268

Engineer.in. 11. Although the Engineer-in-Chief has reduced his original estimate from ~:;·:lt'~~t. £29;854 to £23,352, th~ Committee still consider the price too high and that it should be possible to provide the district with a serviceable line for a sum considerahly less See;AppendixA, than £2,093 per mile, The line from Wycbeproof to Sea Lake was constructed for "i~~~~eneral £1,516 per mile; the line from' Beulah t() Hopeto,un for £1,900 per mile; the Dim­ boola to Jeparit line for £1 ,554 per mile; and the Boort to Quambatook line for £1,732 per mile; and on'all these lines new 60-lb. steel rails were used. The country between Rupanyup and Banyena is prac;:tically level, and there are no engineering difficulties. The capabilities of the locality 'are above the average of northern districts, but it will not furnish sufficient fl.·eight to pay for an expensive line. , After carefully c;:o,nsidering the estimate, the Committee are strongly of opinion that a line, sufficient for all purposes, can .be built for a sum not exceeding £1,700 per mile, exc1usiveo( land and rolling-stock.

Cla.ims of the 12. If a railway is built to 'Banycl1a it will practicaliy serve aU those who would Banyena district. be accommodated by the mor~ expensive line tQ NIarnoo. Such ,a line will be a great benefit to the farmers in the parishesof,:J3aI,lyena, Rich Avon East, Rich Avon West, and in a portion of the parish of Marnoo. The land surrounding the extension is, for the most part, of excellent quality, w~ll adapted for wheat-growing, dairying, and fattening sto~l~. The fanp§ ~r~ ne~tr]y all cle~rred and the settlement is 9f a.perrnanent character. 7

vii

An extension to Banyena will improve the traffic on the present spur line, which, as already sta,ted, min never pay as it stands at present. Although it is only 11 '16 miles from ~he present railway terminus at Rupanyup to Banyena, the roads are very bad, there being no suitable material for road con­ struction in the locality, and evidence was given that it,costs 158. a ton to cart goods to Banyena in summer, and that as much as £2 per ton has been paid for carting in a ,Yet winter. ' The proposed terminus at Banyena is 15! miles in a direct line from Cope Cope, the nearest railway station on the main Donald line, 291 miles from St. Arnaud, and 10i miles from ,the Wallaloo pre-emptive right to pt!-l'chase. The proposed ,station at Banyena is located so that the lirie maybe ,extended in the future to either St. Arnaud or Cope Cope if it should be thought desirable at any time to so extend it.

13. The Banyena line will not serve the vVallaloo district. That locality is The W!l1Ial6a held, for the most part, in small areas, and is a very old settled district. It is at district. present from 20 to 25 miles from a railway, and, in the opinion of'the Committee, the farmers in the locality have strong claims to consideration. 14. The Committee have resolved that it is not expedient,to construct the line Recommen~ remitted to them-Rupanyup to Marnoo-but they recommend the construction of da.tion. a line of railway from Rupanyup to Banyena, 11 '16 miles, provided the cost of such railway shall not exceed £1,700 per mile. " In recommending this line the Committee desire to add that they are of opinion that steps should be tak~n to place on the land served by this: and other similar new railways, some responsibility for any loss which may arise in cqnnexion with the construction and working of the same. The Committee have called attention to this See para. 9. matter in their Third and Fourth General Reports. ~~~~,~dera.l In the event of the Engineer-in.:.Chief not seeing his Way to construct a &!~6r~'~~ serviceable line adequate for the requirements of the district, for £1,700 per mile on the .butty-gang system, the Committee suggest that public tenders be invited for the Work. 15. The following extracts from the Minutes of the Proceedings of the Com- Divisions. Sec. 8, mittee show the divisions that took place during the consideration of this railway. Act No. 1177.

WEDNESDAY,15m JULY, 1896. "" :11 "* "* ... '" "* "" # The Committee proceeded to further consider the evidence on the proposed railway from Rupanyup to Marnoo. ' , Mr. Harris moved, That in the opinion ?f the Committee it is not expedient to construct a. line of railway from Rupailyup to Marnoo, but the Committee recommend the construction of it line from Rupanynp to Banyena, a distance of 11 miles 13 chains, provided the cost of such railWay shall not exceed £1,700 per mile. Mr. Craven seconded the motion. And, after discussion- Mr. Melville moved, as a.n amendment, That ".£1,700 per mile;' be omItted, with a view< to insert in place thereof" £1,000 per mile for a line on a narrow gauge of 2 feet." Question..:...That "£1,700 per mile" proposed to be omitted atand part of the questi6h"-put. The Committee divided. Ayes, 6. ,Noes; 1. The Chairman, Mr. Melville Mr. Burton, Mr. Craven, Mr. Harria, Mr. Morey, Mr. J. S. White. And so it was resolved in the affirmative. " Q!1estion-That in the opinion of the Committee it is not expedient to construct a line of railway trQm Rupanyup to Marnoo; bllt the Committee recommend the construction of a line from Rupanyup to Banyena, a distance of 11 miles 13 chains, provided the cost of such railway shall not exceed £1,700 per mile-put. , The Collimittee divided, Ayes, 6. Noes, J. The Chairman, Mr. Melville. Mr. Burton, Mr. yraven, Mr. Harris; Mr. Morey, ' Mr. J. S. White. And so it was resolved in the affirmative., Viii

TUESDAY, 21sT JUI,Y~ 1896.

The Committee pl'oceedetl to, consider their Report to the Legislative Assembly 011 the proposed railway from Rupanyup to Marnoo. ' , . The Repol·t was read by the Clerk of Committees. Paragraphs 1 to 6 agreed to, Paragraph 7 agreed to with amendments. . Paragraphs 8 'to 11 agreed to. Paragraph 12 agreed to wit,h an amendment. Paragrl!-ph 13 agreed to. . :lVII'. M~lville submitteu the fonowing Dew paragraph to follow paragraph -13, viz. :-'- 13A. The Committee recommcnd the constrnction of a 2-foot narrow-gauge line from Glenorchy, via 'Wallaloo, to St. Arnaud, on COIHlition that the cost of snch liue shall not exceed the snm of £ 1,000 per mile, including permanent way, euginei3, and rolling-stock, and ~m the . furtllCr condition that the district served by the railway shall gnarantee that the said railway shall pay ,vOl'king expenses and interest on the cost of construction. Power to he takeu in the Act. authorizing the line to levy a special 'rate on all land served by the line to make up any deficiency arising in connexion wHh the construction and working of the same. And, after disc1l8sion-

Ql~estion-That the new paragraph proposed by Mr. Melville be added to the Report-put. The Committee divided. Ayes,3. Noes, 4. Mr. Craven, The Chairman, , Mr. Melville, Mr. Burton, Mr. J. S. White. Mr. Harris, ,Mr. Morey. ,And so it pa.ssed in the negative. Mr. Burton submitted the following new paragraph to follow paragraph 13, viz.:- ISB. The Committee therefore recommend the construction of a line of railway from Glenorchy" to WaUaloo, a distance of about 21 miles, provided the cost of such railway shall not exceed £1,700 per mile. Discussion on this motion not having terminated at the time appointed for the meeting of ,the Legislath'e Assembly, the debate thereon was adjourned until to-morrow.

{"',

WEDNESDAY, 22ND JULY, 1896. The Committee proceeded to further consider t,heir Report to the Legislative Assembly on, the , proposed railway from I{npanynp to Marn.oo. Debate resumed on the following new paragraph submitted by Mr. Burton, viz.:- ISB. The Committee therefore recommend the constrrlction of It line of railway from Glenorchy t() ,"YalIn,lo'o, a distance of about 21 miles, provided the cost of such railway shall not excced£1,700 per mile. , Question-That the new paragraph proposed by Mr. Burton be added to the Report-put. ' The Committee divided. " 'AY,es, a. Noes, 4. The Chairman, Mr. Craven, Mr. Burton, Mr. Harri~, ; Mr. Morey. Mr. Melville; Mr .•J. S. 3Vhite. And so it passed in the negative. Paragraph 14- MI'. Harris :moved, That the words "Local rates to be charged on the extension, and all land .. required for the line to be handed over to the D{)Partment free of cost, and without compensation for , severance' or ()therwise JJ be omitted, with a vi.ew to i!Isert ill place thereof the following words :- "In recommending this line the Committee desire to add tha~ they ape of opinion that steps should be taken to place on the land served by this and other similar new railways some r,e!lp()p's~bility for any loss which may arise in connexion with the construction and working ,"of 'the ·same. The Committee hav:e called attent,iou to'this matter 11;\ their Third and Fourth General Reports.", " , , Question-That the words proposed to be o~itted stand part of parakritpl~, Ii-put and negatived. Question-That the words pl'oposed to be ins~rted in place of the words ,omitted be so inserted-put and resolved in the affirmative. ' , • , . 9·

·IX

Mr. Harris moved, That the following words be added to paragraph 14 :-" In the event of the. Engineer-in-Chief not seeing his way to construct a serviceable line adequate for the requirements of the district for £1,700 per mile on the butty-gang system, the Committee sugges.t that public tenders be invited for the work." Question-That the words proposed to be added be so added-put. The Committee divided. . Ayes, 6. Noes, 1. The Chairman, :Mr. Burton. Mr. Craven, Mr. Harris, Mr. Melville, Mr. Morey, Mr. J. S. White. And so it was resolved in the affirmative. Question-That paragraph 14, as amended, stand part of the Report-put and resolved in the affirmative. Mr. Craven moved, That the Report be adopted. Question-put and resolved in the affirmative. Ordered-That the Report be·signed by the Chairman and presented to the Legislative Asse~bly .

.E. H. CAMERON, Chairman. Parliament House, Melbourne, 22nd July, 1896. / IJL

~APPENDIOES.

II Z INDEX TO APPENDICES.

A.-Report of the Acting Railwa.ys Commissioners on the Rupanyup to Marnoo Line.

B.-Deputy Traffic Manager's Estimate of earnings and traffic working expenses-Rupanyup to' Marnoo Line.

D.-Report of the Acting Commissioners on the through liue from Rupanyup, via Marnoo, to St. Arnaud.

E.-Deputy Traffic Ma'nager's' E'stimate of' earnings and traffic working expenses-Rupanyup to St. Arnaud through -line.

F.-'.Ft::liffic' l'nspect!?r'zs< Repol't=o: Rupanyup' to' St. Arnaud through line.' .,', ' G.-Report of the Railways Commissioner on the Rupanyup to Banye~a Line.

H.-Report by the Engineer-in-Chief, dated 2nd August, 1893, 011 proposed railway accommodation for c0unt7Y betweell the Ararat to Murtoa Railway and the Mal'yborough to Donald RaIlway.

I.-Detailed(Estimate by the Engineer-in-Chief for a liue from Rupanyup to Banyeua.

J.-Memorandulll by the.Engineer-in-Chief, with revised Estimate for extensiou to Banyena, with second-hand rails.

K.-Detailed Estimate as revised. 13

APPENDICES.

AFPENDIX A.

RUPANYUP 'fO MAR~OO RAILWAY~-REPORT OF THE A0'FIlNG NiCil1GRIAN RA'ILtW A¥,g COMMISSIONERS ON ,'nI~iLINE.

,Melbourne, 3rd '~ebruary, 1896.

Length, 20 miles ; ru,ling gr.!\de, 1 in 75; ;~1larp~!l~ '.$\u.I;y,e~ .?9 :eA!Lir~§l raftius:

Cost of ,Construdion~ . Th~ i~~i~eer'i~.Ch{ef estimates the cost of construction at £2,767* per . m,~le, lor:@ total ,of ••...... t £55,331 5 11 Annual Cost- ~,~~~!l.I!~t9.:.n tQl!!w!al'~IPJ~~d~~ll~j; :3i ,p~r ~Qel.l~,' ...... ,. .£1,9a9 11 7 Working Expenses-

Locomotiv~ .E:1'p~ll.s~tl .,.~.. " ;f,~,47 0 Traffic Ex,peIlAes ',0.. , ,- il57 8 °5 +Permanellkw.a,y .Expellses 1,200 0 0 ------Total WurJring Expenses £1,604 8 li

Totl}1.An.n1J.~19os~ ... £3,541 0 0 Estim.l1,ted ,Revenue from Proposed Line­ ;E;~9.l)). ;Pa/l.!!.~l)ig~s ... £75 8 0

Goods (other than minerals) ,,* .~. .~,r Live Stock §.Q ,9 i9 Minerals . All other Traffic 920 0 8

, Total Revenue from Propos~d Line £1,045 8 8 § Estimated Revenue from Carriage of Foregoing Traffic over Existing Railways 367 10 0 --,---- Total Revenue £1,412 18 8 Deficit £2,128 1 4

"Mt'y f~~ :W,!!top~.n.e.~.for :p.uplic )t~~c:f0.r .1',25,0 .Iler ,1P.~~e~Ei~s. t ExclusIve of land and rollIng-stock. - t When rel?ew!,Ils cornmel'\ce annual_ c9,~t ,for ma~n~llance wiII be £2,000. ,§ Tlli!> amount ~s,for pew .tra,ffic expected to arise owing to construction of the line.

J,A¥~,S SY;PE,~J '} y:,c~orian ,Ra.ilw,ay~ R. LOCHHEAD, . Commissioners. APPENDIX B.

RUPANYUP TO MARNOO RAILWAY.-DEPUTY TRAFFIC MANAGER'S ESTIMATE OF EARNINGS AND TRAFFIC WORKING EXPENSES.

PROPOSED LINE' FROM RUPANYUP TO MARNOO EAST. Estimate of Eal'nings and Traffic Working Expenses. Banyena, 13 miles.­ Grain 1,166 tons 3s. £174 18 0 Chaff 200 " 3s. 30 0 0 Wool 66 " 4s.3d. 14 0 6 Dairy Produce 30 48.5d. 6 12 6 Live Stock-nil. ~' ----- £22.'5 10 0 Inwards 150 " 5s. £37 10 0 37 10 0 Marnoo East, 20 miles'.- Grain '3,033 tons 3s. £454 19 o Chaff 500 " 3s. 75 0 o ; Wool 150 " 6s.6d. 48 15 o Dairy Produce 20" 6s. Sd. 6 13 ,4 Live Stock 50 trucks', 250 tons : .. 209. 50 0 o ---- £635 ,7 4 Inwards . 200 tons 7s.2d. £71 13 4 71 134

Total Goods Revenue £970 '0 8

Passenger Traffic. Say twelve weekly at average 2nd class single fare for twenty miles"':"624 at 28. 5d., £75 8s. Summary. Goods Revenue £970 0 8 Passenger Revenue 7,5 8 0

Total ... £~,P45 8 8

Traffic Working Expenses. Say same as for through line Rupanyup to St. Arnaud, £157 813. 5d. W. F., Deputy Traffic Manag'lr. Traffic Manager'!! Office, Spencer-street Station, 23rd .January, 1896.

APPENDIX C.'

RUPANYUP TO MARNOO RAILWAY.-TRAFFIC INSPECTOR'S REPORT. Traffic and Telegraph Inspector's Office, Bendigo, 18th January, 1896. . ~, .. REPORT ON A PROPOSED EXTENSION OF LINE FROM RUPANYUP TO A POINT 2.5 MILES TOWARDS ST. ARNAUD. . In the first place I would point out that, in my opinion, we should get no traffic of any consequence from Gre Gre, as the extra'mileage vitI, Rnpanyup would he decisi ve in determining route which wOldd he as at present via St. Arnaud. Remembering this, I should say Marnoo East, about 20 miles from RllpanYllp, would be quite far enough to run the line, and estimates should' be based on that distance oilly. Gre Gre farmers would probably do a little business with StawelI, and if we allow 300 tons extra to Marnoo East on that account, we shall be able to arrive at ,revenue. I do this as being the most fa vorable aspect from the, view taken by a supporter of the line, as the extra .) miles of construction would prove more conclusively the loss that would be incurred by ihe Department. 15

xv·

Traffic on this basis would bc- :Marnoo East, say 20 miles. Tone. Grain-27,300 bags ... .3,033 Chaff 500 Wool-900 bales 150 D. Produce 20 L. Stock-50 trucks Inwards 200 Banyena 01' Burrum Burrum, a.bout 13 miles. Tons. Grain-IO,500 bags ... 1,166 Chaff 200 W 001-400 bales 66 D. Produce 30 L. Stock-nil. Inwards 150 Alteration in Banyena totals based on assumption that traffic would not be drawn from Cope Cope if line does not go through. Passenger traffic, say 12 weekly. Working expenses, about same as St. Arnaud, with exception of guard's proportion. Loss to present lines small, assuming that grain, chaff, and wool would not be affected except by through line to St. Arnaud. . This line in my opinion would not pay working expenses, although I have nssumed that we sball carry the grain which is now taken into Stawell by teams-about 900 tons from Marnoo district. S. JONES, W. Fitzpatrick, Esq., Traffic :Manager. Traffic and Telegraph Inspector.

APPENDIX D.

ST. ARNAUD TO RUPANYUP RAILWAY.-REPORT OF THE ACTING VICTORIAN RAIL WAYS COMMISSIONERS ON THE THROUGH LINE. . Melbourne, 13th January, 1896. REPORT ON PRo'POSED RAILWAY FROM ST. ARNAUD TO RUPANYUP. Length, 39 miles 34 chains; ruling grade, 1 in 50; sharpest curve, 20 chains radius. Cost of Oonstruction- The Engineer-in-Chief estimates the cost of construction at -£2,804 per mile, exclusive of land and rolling-stock, or a total of £110,520 1 11

NOTE.--This line may be first opened for traffic for about £250 per mile less. Annual Cost- Interest on Capital Expended at 3t per cent. £3,868 4 -0 Working Expenseso:- Locomotive £385 0 0 Traffic 157 8 5 Maintenancelil 2,870 0 0

Total Working Expenses 2,912 8 5

Total Annual Cost £6,780 12 5 Estimated Revenue from Proposed Line­ From Passengers £188 10 0 Live Stock ... 101 10 0 Minerals All Other Traffic 1,561 11 4

Total Revenue from Proposed Line £1,851 114 Estimated Revenue from Carriage of Foregoing t Traffic over Existing Lines ... 1,695 10 0

Total £3,547 1 4 Less Amount as per Footnote :j: 865 11 0

£2,681 10 4

Deficit ... £4,099 2 1

"NoTE.-When renewals commence all.lmal cost for maintenance will bc £3,942. t This amount is for new traffic which would be developed. :t NOTE.-The whole of these amounts cannot fairly be credited to the new line, as, owing to the route to Melbourne being shortened by it, the lines now in existence would only receive credit for mileage from St. Arnaud, instead of from Stawell, Cope Cope, and Rtipanyup as at present. 'flae estimated revenue given aboye should, therefore, be reduced hy £865 lIs., at which the difference is estimated. JAMES SYDER, 1 Acting l{. LOCHHEAD, I C~mmisBionerB. • I :' ~ • ". , xyj

APPENDIX E. " .: ....

ST. ARNAU:P TO ·RUPAN';YUP Tl:IROUGH LINE.-DEPUTY T,RAFFI€J MANAGER'S • \ • "'" ." ·h..... ;·14U-,'- . "', '~'u,' ESflMATE OF EARNINGS AND TRA~rIC ~ORKING' !1NJP_~,~~S.

PROPOSED LINE FROllI ST. ARNAUD TO RUP~NYUP.

Estima.~e of Eal~nings aue!- rcrat/ic :Working/Sxp.enses. For the ,pU,rpose~ of this ,calculation it is as~umed tlm,t stations .:wi.!,l :be .p~\\ced '~;t~ :~, Gre Gre, 14 miles; Marno~,' 2.0 milel3 ; and ~lmyena, 26 miles. , . Gre .Gre, 14 miles .....:. 'Grain 1,667 tons 3s. .. £249 18 0 ,Chaff 350!J '. 3s. .52 10 d :VV,Q,oJ ,' .• ,4s. ,6d: ~.Q U Ju .. :.,t:t, "ft.i ,1$ ~Q .9 Dairy: Produce '50 " 0S. 12 10 0 Live Stock 20 trucks, 100 tons 20s. t·9 ,.0 e ....1.;;;..: ....Y'$.,.,:·t;:·-"iI\JI\A;; },~ J.g ,9 ~¥,!t.rnoo! ?O mil~8,!,~ ,Gra'1ll ••• 2,833 tons' 38. £424 19 0 'Chidf " 46iV .';; '·3;{. .c'·'60 '0 6 *,,9.9,1 . .., 150" 6s. 6d. 48 15 0 Dair.y ;Produce 20" 6s. 8d. ,.,.~6 .w,13 .. ,1 'Li~e S't~~l( """ ' '50 trucks, 2~9!~;I},~ y, RQfj;: 50 0 0 ----- 590 7 4 Inwards 'iff: ~~sl· 88 15 0 " 78. 2d. 17 18 4: 106 13 4

3s. 6d. . . icP>75;~2', 1'0! '.0°.: 'if?;: 6d'~ 88. 5d. 42 1 8 " '~"'§.,' .~.!J.,. 12 7 6 .~g trucks, 150to~~ . ". , '31 10 " • '; '

.i; .... ~~,;,i ~,,;;i;: .• ~ ~.,; ...... ;.:. Remarlis.-The whole of the above amount cannot, however, be fairly credited,1i9 \t9.~ .l,;tfl~ ~,e, as, o;wing ~o ~h,e route to Melbourne being shortened bY~\h J.P.~ 'lJiJ;t.I,l~ \~W:iY i¥ ,e:JC,i,~,t..~\:p,c.~ JY.o.il..\~l ,~~lyi'oceive credit for mileage from St. Arnaud.' -, ., > "" - "y' ,q. '''~'' " •. ' '. , ••1'. 'f , '.

sr. ,:~t~~Ap':D INSTEAD OF FROM' STAWELL, COPE COPE, AND RlJPANYUP, AS AT PRESENT. - This differ.~nc~,i~ ,~~fJ,wated a~ follows;::;::­ J..far.npo ·T.r:t;tffiC- . ~",' Route. Present Rat!). Rate 1Ii4 St. Arnaud. Difference •. ToW. , 'Y'~ ." ••.. "~'r. """~~ ...... ! ,-,.C ••',;' ;;,...,..>.~ uJ'l.\·r'-"'J;' Grain St~w~h ~66 14 4 ••• 13 0 ... £60 0 0 ,Graiii Rupanyup 1,933 17 0 J3 0 4 0 386 12 0 Woo} 80 '3 10 15 6 H Dairy Prod uce .. . " 20 'l~ .~ "" l~ f 6 " '{ 4. 468 lnwaras .. . " 150 62 5 57 6 411 36 17 6 ,', ;.'0,-, " " l!an!Je1~1f '!'.ra..ffic- . ' ..(}rail,l·' Cope Cope ... 1,000 14 4 13 0 1 4 £66 13 4 ,Q .0 .233 4 0 Grain Rupany.l,Ip ~ .. 1,1(;)t;i J.7.Q 1.3 ',',' ,1 I"~ _,,'I 43 11 ,3 "'19 3 4 Wool 100 47 9 lQ ...... ',' " 44 0 '4 4 6 .10 0 Dairy PrQduce .30 48:4 ," Inwards .. '6 4 11 3'6 17 ~ , ';:~;J.~ It')::--' ~.' ;." ~ •• ;'" •. i ... J§.9 .:,~ ·~e .~ ,§? '::':t :t.. T .. - :: .f :§, j~~ .,' £865 11 0 -- 17

f !!H.tl'M/.~r1a:9jfi,c-:-::::-t Say fifteen each way per week, average journey 20 miles, at, say, 2nd class single fare-1,560 at 2s. 5d. ' ... ' £188 10 0 Summary-

1.(/0. ~. £797 10 4 Goods Revenue, qat ," Passengers --, ~ .. ... 188 10 0 ,", £986 0 4

Remarks.-Assuming that ,the .opening of the 'lhw .woul~ ~o,uble the production (and this is a liberal estimate), it will be seen that the earnings would .not .cven then .nearly approach the interest charge. Traffic Working Expenses- ,Gil.l!l;r,d, ~.5.6,dlloYS at 112:t), ,(i.e .. , ,80 per .cent ..of 9s.~ £56 8 5 ;\\V;oman 11) ,Ohar.ge.andStore!?, .t)vo .stations .at2~. :per day.each 73 0 ,0 Extra man, busy season, say 'sO ,<\!).Y;s .at .t"f.1? 28 0 ·0 ----- Total i5 £157---- 8 W.F., Deputy Traffic Manager. Traffic Manager's Office, Spencer-street Station, 10th January, 1896.

APPE;NDIX F.

ST. ARNAilD TO, RUP ANYUP THHOUG,H LINE.-Tl'-AFFm IN;SPEG.. t'O~'S UEPORT.

Your T.T.I., 3/2031. ·Traffic and Telegraph Inspector's Office, Bel:\digo, .6,t.h ,January, 1896.

In accQl;~ll'nce with your instructio.~B I beg to report that I trave,llEld 0;V:e,r ~~.e ,proposed route, St. Arnaud to ~upanyup, on 2nd and 3rd inst. '" I left 8t: Arnaud on 2nd iust. and travelled to Rllpanyup ,l)y.}Vay oJ r~~y,J;l,i?r's ~agoon, Gre Gre North. Stl'atfor~ ;Lakes through Avon Plllins round to Banyena ; thenc,~ "~9 H\up~Ylnp. .on 3rd in st. I left Rupauyup, ,and ,yent by way of Marneo, Marnoo East, Gre Gre Y.1l\~gQ (which is nbout one mile distant from th'e surveyed line); thence teSt. Arnaud. . 1st. In dealing with area nnder cultivation to ,be considered in cennexion with this line, I have struck out area \W,'~$iu.eight mi1(1)3 of Rllpanyup and,eight m,~tes frem :St. 4.1:naud ,as be~ng ,sufficiently close to' stations alre.ady in .c:)(istence. ' Farmer,s in G':9 Gre ~o.rth wouJ.d still patronize Swanwater and Sutherland, .and when passing through that d\s,~rict ~ ;,was info,r,wed that ,the want.Qf railway WfiS not felt there. Passing .on to ,Avens Plains district, from ,whence Hfinyenamckons on receiving a large traffic, I find that it aver.;tges a~911t ten wiles frof\l .Cope Co,pe, find f,r,Qm five to six miles from Bany.ena. Banyena, a small township at the junction of tho Avoll and RiclJardsoll rivers, consists of two. stores, two hotels, one cre.amery, and sev;eral odie! .dwellings. I ·interyiewed Wle ,of .the sto.rekeepe,rs-1\~r. G,r!ly-,~nd 'he ·infor.ms ,me that although iRllpanyup is o,nly ,abo.nt ,thir,teen .pile/> d~!>tant, he ;ha~ hn.d to ,pay as rUllc,h .IUI £2 .per ton in th~ .winter time ,to obtain hi.s good!l.from ;a.up~ny.up. l,Ie av:erages WbOll:t J tQns ,per l,llonth. .. :rhe Cl:ewnery is ,11 'bran~h of ,the StaweU :fact.or.y .and averages about sixteen to ,twenty cans per week. Both at Bl1nyena and Marnoo, which are about 13 and 14 miles respectively from Rupanyup, the J.la~~ po.IT,lp,~a.i:(l.t .~!3 ,t,? ,tAle .~Im,!s,t .iwP~S(l~,91e ,llaJ\l},\3 ,of ,1;h,e ro,;tds in wint,~r is pn?~ninently brought ~o.rward. ~.b},r!3s? I a.~inf9\m~.~, 11,?t b~ing jNI" p~lS.i.t\o.~1 ,~o iD?,prov;e ,tl,l.ePl.· ,.'. ' Hel!-:nl1f:\' ;:!3,lj-lly,eu.a ~o.r )1u'p"!):.I.1ytip, fo,r t,~le 11'\08,t .0,1' ,the di.!3,tance d!1lryl,nggrazmg land .aPl)eare.d to Qe e~~,tl3~lS:i v~I!gon,~ i,lt f9.r~ !.v,IJ.i.~h ,\'.1).8 ~,c.qo.\l:nt~d ,~9r :!:>! ,tl~~ Xact ,t.h.lj,t .gr.a.~u Jj\t~l be~¥ so very ,cheap during 'Hw fRst two. 01' three years. '. My reason for bringing this under notice is th::tt distance from a railway line is so frequently made n.se of jll,c.QnY.Qrs.~tio,l1lJ>§ the re.a~o.,ll for .nQ,t ,C,l1It,iYl1t.ing . . ,. I am infornied that there are huge areas held areund Rnpanynp- Acres, 2,000 ;1:,000 3,000 XYlll

Returning to St. Amaud by way of Marnoo and Gre, Gre, there is also a largepro'portion of 'the land not under cultivation- . Mr. Skene, 12,000 acres (4,000 acres leased out). Mr. Newall, 1 Mr. McConochie, Mr. Pelgrim, All h Id f If' 1 ~OO 't Mr. McDonald, " ,0 era'o arge areaB~ rom.'v ,0 . I 4,000 acres, greater portIOn grazmg. M r. C unmng lam, I Mr. Hines, I \ Mr. Boyle, Wallaloo Squatting Estate, heM by Mr. Weatherly. Carr's Plains, Mr. Wettcnhall. To the south of Gre Gre the Tottington area comprises, amongst others, Mr. Anderson's squatting estate; Baldwin Brothers, who are said to hold large area. , ""-hat is termed Gre Gre village is a collect.ion of about six houses, including creamery,' blacksmith's shop, and two or three pri vate dwellings. I am, also informed that there is another creamery about nine miles from St. Amaud, to the south of proposed line in 'the Tottington area. Assuming that area taken into consideration be 250,000 acres, I am of opinion that not more than one-tenth is at present being used for cultivation-say, 25,000 acres.

2nd. Produce of District- Wool-say, 2,000 bales 330 tons. Grain-say, 60,000 bags = 6,666 tons. Chaff-say, 1,050 tons. Live Stock-say, 100 trucks. Dairy Prodnce-say, 100 tons. Inwards Traffic-say, 450 tons. To closely estimate the mileages from which traffic would be sent would only be surmise, but, if dealt with as follows, it would be in favour of the advocates of the line:-

Banyena or Burrum Burrum, 26 miles. Tone. Graill:-19,500 bags ". 2,166 Chaff 300 W 001-600 bales, about 100 Dairy Produce, about 30 Live Stock-30 trucks In Traffic-26 miles .... . 150 In Trafflc-13 miles .. . 50

Marnoo East (include W a11aloo), 20 miles. Grain-25,500 bags 2,833 Chaff 400 W 001'-:'900 bales 150 Dairy Produce 20 Live Stock-say 50 trucks In Traffic-20 miles ... 150 In Traffic-19 miles ... 50

Gre Gre, 14 miles. Grain-I5,000 bags, say 1,665 Chaff . 350 Wool-500 bales 80 Dairy Produce .'50 In Traffic ... '" 50 Live Stock ... 20 3rd. P1'oportion tltat would be new Traffic.-The whole of Gre Gre to St. Arnaud. . Marnoo and Wallaloo:-I have ascertained from Stawell that 420 bales of wool and 6,000 bags of wheat come in by road, and I am of opinion that probably half as many bags of oats find their way to Stawell by road. The balance of Marnoo goes to Rupanyup; but I do not class this new traffic, aS'if trucked· at Marnoo we shall in reality receive 'less freight than heretofore, on which subject I will refer to again. Chaff for this line new traffic. 4th. Amount now forwarded from Stations on Existing Li1ifs.-Cope Cope receives from district of Avon Plains 30,000 bags wheat and 1,000 bales wool, 20 trucks live stock. If line were made Cope Cope would still receive the larger portion of this. Rupanyup receives a good deal of traffic from Bnuyena aiid Marnoo districts, about 20,000 bags grain, 600 bales wool, say 20 tons dairy produce, 70 trucks'live stock. St. Arnaud, not affecting mileage, is not concerned. '

5th. Population, ~·c.- This I am unable to ascertain with any clegree of certainty,· as 'no one can give me any reliable statistics. One gentleman gave me 3,000 for one portion of the district, but I subsequently found that areas not entitled to be considered had been included. I believe 2,000 will not be far off the total. Passenger traffic would be very light, and an unimportant factor in producing revenue-if reckoned at, say, fifteen per week, I believe that would-be the full number. 19

XIX

A tri-weekly service would be ample for the traffic of the line. Women would probably be required at Burrum Burrum and Marnoo East, and guard would be sufficient for Gre Gre and other sidings that would probably be put in. Construction of line would bring Rupanyup nine miles nearer Melbourne-affecting all revenue at present received there. Goods for Banyena would also benefit to the extent of twenty miles. Traffic from Burrereo, about eight miles from Banyena, in the direction of Minyip, would also be diverted from Minyip, and further loss in connexion with any traffic to or from Melbourne . .We are at present working the section Lubeck to Rupanyup on motor principle, but the extra man would be required if train ran to and from St. Arnaud. . The districts on this line that arc most in need of raihyay commnnication are those around Wal1aloo and Marnoo-south of Gre Gre also included. During my inquiries in Marnoo, I ascertained that a good quantity of grain went on by rond to Stawell to mills there, as farmers, obtain a hetter price than they do at Rupanyup. It would appear that this wopld still continue, even though a line were made through to St. Arnaud. Distance by rail, 53 miles. Freight, if two rates charged, 7s. 6d., or 6s. per ton one through rate. . Farmers can get it carted for from 7s. 6d. to 9s. per ton, which would pay them better than sending by rail. S. JONES, W. Fitzpatrick, Esq., Traffic Manager. Traffic and Telegraph Inspector.

APPENDIX G.

RUPANYUP TO BANYENA RAILWAY.-REPORT OF THE VICTORIAN'RAILWAYS COMMISSIONER ON THE LINE. Melbourne, 13th July, 1896.

REPORT ON PROPOSED RAILWAY FROll! RUPANYUP TO BANYENA. Length, 11'16 miles; ruling grade, 1 in 75; sharpest curve, 20 chains radius. (:ost of Constrllction- * 'rhe Engineer-in-Chief estimates the Cost of Construction at £2,675 per mile, or a total of- £29,854 0 0 Annual Cost- Interest on Capital expended, at at per cent. £1,044 17 9 Working Expenses- t Locomotive Expenses ... £60 18 0 Traffic Expenses ·86 7 0 t Permanent-way Expenses ... 672 0 0

Total Working Expenses.... 819 5 0

Total Annual Cost £1,864 2 9

Esti"mated Revenue from Proposed Line- From Passengers ...... £52 0 0 Goods (other than minerals) 694 19 10 Live Stock Nil Minerals All Other Traffic

Total Revenue from Proposed Line ... £746 19 10 § Estimated Revenue from Carriage of foregoing Traffic over existing Railways 457 11 11

Total Revenue £1,204 11 9 Deficit 659 II 0 Explanatory Remarks- .. Exclusive of land and rolling-stock. t Based on service of three days per week with twenty extra trains during bnsy season. t While line is new. . § 4s a la.rge pr~portion of f,he traffic ~f this district is n,ow carried over existing lines from Minyip, Cope Cope, and other statIOns, I have, m the estImate of £45, lIs. lId" only gwen the revenue to be deriyed from new traffic.

JNO. MATHIESON, Victorian Railways Commissioner. xx

APPENDI~ H.

REPORT BY 'TIm ENGINEER.IN-CHIEF ON PROPOSEB RAILWAY AC80MMODATION . FOlt COUNTRY BETWEEN THE ARARAT TO l\:HJRTOA RAILW Ai ANf)THE MARYBOROHGH TO DONALD ·RA.ILW .A Y. ' . . . . ,... - ." ~'''''''' !.'" oj, JI .. ,·1.,," '. • " < \ ,",' ,. " I. t; ." ~ngineer".~n-,cJ,t,\ef's ,Office, ;Raibv,ay Depn.rt!pe,J;lt, ¥elb0.vrne, 2.I;l,Q. ~ugus,t, ;1893.

',P~9?pe,RI! RAILWAY Acco:\nrODATION FOR THE ,COUNTRY BETWEEN THE -R.AILWAY1" ARAR4T TO " "" ., ...... 1\luRToA ANI)MARYBOROUGH TO ;DONALD. 11f..~rrzo. i.9r ~?~e Hon . .tlte j}li'fli~~er of Rail1pays. At t\:le request of the 'Mem bers.of ,the'J.,cglslativ.e Asscmhlr for the distric.t, ~have'l!Ltely 'W\1de.a,()are!lll inspection of the ,=,tbove ,t,r\1ct of country to .fix on ,the lincs of raihv,ay w,hic~l, in my ju<;lgl,llont, ;\y:ou~(l best mee,t the 'l;equire.me,ntsllnd conducc .to ;the .dev.clopmcnt .of it. .' The routes exnminecl ;were ·Rupany.up ,to S.t. Arnaud, via Bauy.ena, ¥!1J'nQo, W ~:ll[lloo, ltlA<;l ,G-lie Gre ; Glenorchy to St. Arnaud, via Wallaloo and Gre Gre (the portion Wallaloo to Gre .Gre and St. 4ilil,\\W.~ being cominon ~o ,t\.le :t?Yo .rontes), and a line fro m A yoca to Navarre. H,l t\.le ~\\il~v\ty ,;Bill of ,l8!?0 two lines were proposed through the ~.ortl;t.erJ;l port,ion ,oJ ,this .gJstrict, one from l{,upanyup to Cope Cope, and the other fwm Stawell to WaHaloo. ':rile Ra.l1waYtlSectiomlJ Com­ mittee No.1, after investigating the merits of these proposals, recommended their abandonment in favour of one line from Rupanyup to St. Arnaud, via BanyeuI'L, Maruoo, and Ore Gre, which, in their judgment, would fairly serve the requircments of the district; and thc Geneml,Committee recommended a trial snrvey of this line, which has siuce been made. The Sectional Committee postponed tIle <,:ol~siv.e.ra:tio,n ,of thc li.ne from Avoca to Navarre. The extent of country between the two existing lines (which must at no distant date be provided with railway accommodation) extends from Avoca to M,inyip, a distallce of about 70 miles; the average width between them beiug about 40 miles, allll the avcl'age width to he served about 20 miles, 1f,e~e ~t,h,lilre 1~0 l.ocal,cet;l,t,re!! ~9 ,be c.o,ush;lerc.d, .t,lle bEl,st l,iu.e ~or s,eryi,ng .tft.i$. tl:lLC. .t g~ ~,?l,ln"try would, ill my opiniou, be one from Avoca to '.\V.[inyip, going throllgh' or close to Moonambel, Barkly, iNa:var.re, 'Warngltl', Wallaloo, Marnoo, Banyena,and Bi.ll'rereo, . . , :rhe couutry from ,Av9ca to Moonamhel is generally fair agricultural land; from Moouambel to Navarre about 'haH is ulldulating and rangy and unfit for cereals, but most of it is well adapted for fruit cultivat,ionand gl'azing,; 1~J,te ,9t~~r lwlf i~ fai'l~y.,gQo.d .agJ·lc,I:Ilt,\lr~l ~:,tlfd, J?eyo.J;l,1;1 ;N:11.varre it is nearly all good .land, well adapted for cereals; and all' occupied by agriculturists and graziers. From Avoca to Navarre there is a coiIsideraible pop,ula-tion, 'Pl?ineipa:lly. eligaged in IJ:l,ining. 'The northern portion or this district, being an extensive farming and grazing one, is, undoubtedly, in most urgent want of railway communication, as the farmers at Carr's Plai'lls, ,Gm .G.r.e, W!t141Ioo, Marlloo, Banyena, and A von ;V~\lJns, .\v.lw a,l\e )]9.\1' the l;t,rge~,t ;pro~ll,l<\ers iN tp.:~ .d~.str.ict, hq.:v.eiQ. ~Qme cases to cart ~~eir pr,?~.uc,§l ?9 miles to the nearest railway station over extremely ~ad roads, t,here being no suitable rg~}er,i!11 f()T road construction in the locality. ' The residents here have now a business trade connexion with the towns of St, .;A,rnaud and Stawell, 1l;1ld :\v,ou.1d probably prefer to maintain this connexion by railway communication, e-ven if they Lad to pay a little longer'milway 'baulage for their grain and other produce'to t.he por.t.s .of MeHlour.ne and Geelong. The suopkeepers and traders of Stawell and St. Arnaud are eqnally interested ill preserving this business. From this point of view it appears that the local requirements w01,lIclbebestinet by the construction of the following lines .:,...... RupallYllp ,to St. Arnaud, t'ia Banyena and Wallalo.o, 40 n;tiJe.~, ;t9 .l,l1%If~a.i,If the local connexion with St. Arnaud, . , Glellorchy-to :\VaHaloo (connecting with the abovo tw'enty miles), to maintain the local cOllnexion w.ith .s tawell. . . A~voca -to Nllvarre, 27 miles. Totnl, 87 miles. . T,his ;w.ould fa,irly serv.e ,the whole of the d,istriet, t~le jirs,t :t,wo Jines 'being the most urgent. ·',t:o ·maintain tho conn ex ion with Stawell a line from Glenorchy wonld he much cheaper and shorter to make than one direct from Stawell; it would answer •.;tl;l rS'lqll.,i,r(m;t,e,{l,t'?, .!I.l!.9- ,~i' t,~e pUc; ,provided fOI' above. The attac,~ed pla,\l .;md tabulnted statement show the length and estimated cost of the varions lines, with the popul!tti9,ll /1.*,1 \Lr.9,a to be served, the nr-ea cultivated, an~l ,the prodnc~. ':£'he population is taken from the 1891 eensus, :l,mt the agricnltnral statistics are for 1892-3. From this it will be seen that the popnlation per mile is greatest in tile fo1'lo1dng order :-Avoca to Navarre (96), Avoca to Minyip (66), Lubeck to St. Arnau4 (56), Glenorcliy,tu St. Arnaud (52), Lubeck to St. Arnaud and Glellorchy to ,Vallaloo (45). I n the first two cases the grel1terp.'lrt of the popu- l~,tion is ,engaged in !nillillg, and would not 90.11J;ribute 'much in tonnage to a rail way. . In areas to be served tile lines fol'low the same order, but in m'ens cultivated the order is-Lubeck to St. A~~~ud, 1,490 acrcs'; Luo~cl~ to St. A~ll~;;'d and Glenorchy to Wallaloo, ·1,'11'7' acres ; Gleporchy to S~. Arl)l!>u.~, 1',029 acres; Avoca t.o Minyip, 979 acres; aud Avoca to Navarre, 344 acres, the products fpHow,iug ~~e same O1'der. This is undoubtedly the proper test as to railway requirements, cheap transit for produce being of more importance to the farmers and graziers than passenger and goods accommodation for a mining population. . . Tile area under cultivation in the northern portion of the district is inoreasing, as most of the large landholders are now letting land foy graiJ.i-growing to the n,eighbouring farmers and others .on ~hat is knowu as the "share prinCiple." ," ." .' '-' . 'J,'eI;! Wil$',s ,0,£ ,the li,ne fr9ffi ;Lul~eek to St. 4-r,naud, v.i_z., .from :Lu.heck ,to ,RnpaJ;tJ11p, b;tye been con­ structed and in ,nse ,for some ye!lts, but in dealing wit,h tl,lO compilation of statistics I deemed it Il:e.!(e~sary to conside_r the .Itrea of country between the two existing trunk lines, and so have dealt with this line as if from Lubeck. ' F. RENNICK, Engineer-in-Chief. 21

VICTORI.&N RA:l:X.W:A::rs. Proposed Railway Accommodntion.-Alternative Lines for the Country between the Railways Ararat ,to Murton and Maryborough to Donald.

!l Are(1 served in Acres under Produce (grain Estimated Cost Sl 'Population. Acres . cultiv(1tion. crops) in Bushels. at present Rates. Name of Line. .= ,;l Per Per Per Per ~rotal. Total. Total. Total. ,,'~ Total. ~il~. Total. Mile. Mile. Mile. l. Mile. ..::l I £ 4voca. to'Minyip 70 4,600 66 612~300' 8,747 68,500 979 420,000' '6,000' 11,500 164 70 3,000 Avoca to Navarre 27 2,600 96 309,000 1l,44'4 9,300 344 64,300 '2,381 4~600 170 27 ,3,400 Lubeck to St. Arnaud 50 2,800 56 391,500 7,830 74,500 1,490 474,500 9,490 9,.100 IS2 40 3,000 Glenor:chy t!> S~. Arnaud . 42 2,200 52 327,000 7,786 43,200 1,029 303,000 7,215 6,000 143 42 3,100 Lubeck to St. Arnaud } ,7,103 141 60 3,100 Gleno'felly to 'ValJaloo 70 3,150 45 469,500 6,707 78,200 1,117 497,200 9,900

Distances in Miles te- District. Route. , Meloourne. Geelong.

Wallaloo Viti GlenoJ'chy lSI 162 ". St; Milaud 183 168' " Avoca 173 159 Gre Gre " Glenorchy 191 172 " St, Arnaud 173 158 "Avoca ... ~ •• ' I 182' 16S Banyena " Lubeck: 196 177 " St. Arnaud 188 173 " Avoca. 184 170 Navarre " Avoca. 154 140

APPE,NDIX 1• .A:PPROX:IMATE ESTIM·i\ITE OF COST OF RUP.KNYBP TO' B·kNYENA LINE,'1:1 MILES :t3' CHAINS IN LENGTH, RUJ1ING GRADIENT"1 in 7:5; SHARPEST' CURVE, 20 CHAINS RADIUS. B:A'SED O.N 6s. RATE OF W AOE:

Description of Work, &c. Cost. Total Coat. •

;£ 8. d. £ 8. d. ,Land arid' comperisation, sum of ... 100 o 0 Clearing, 11'16 miles at £20 223 4' If l!'encing, 23 miles at £50 ...... 1,150'. 0' (f Station and occupation gates, wickets, sum of 116 0 0 Gatehonse, 1 No. at £170 ." ... 170 0 g, Cattle·pits at road crOSSlligs, 22 No. at £11 242" 0 ------528 0' (} Earthworks in cuttings,. 7,400 c. yards at Is. 3d...... , .462 io,' O' Earthworks in side cuttirigs and back cuttings; 60,000 c. yards at 10d. 2,500 O. 0 Earthworks in side ditches and creek diversions, 5,OeO c. yards at lOd. 208 G 8. Earthworks ill drains, 150 I. chains at 28. 3d. ' .....: 1.6 l] 6 E;>rthworks in surface forming, Hi! 1. chains at l3y 17 0 Earthworks in approaclies, roads, &c...... Nil Earthworks in station gromids, including platforms Nil ------3,324; Ii 2' Timber bridges, 7·ft'. and 11·ft. openings, 2261. feet at £1138...... :. 3i2' is 0 Box culverts, various sizes, inclusive of ironwork and excavatioIi, 5,600'c. feet at 28. 6d. 700 0 0 ------i,072' I8 0: Metalling' and gravelling roads, station grounds, 1,900 c. yards at 4s. 3d. ... 403 I5 0' Ballast, 6 inches under sleeper, 'boxed; up to 10~ inches,· 21,200 c. yards at 48. 4,240 .~ 0 Sleepers, 22,000 No. at 3s,,6d...... ' ...... 4;007 10 O· Permanent-way materials, main line and sidings (OO·lb. steel rails), 11'90 miles at 6,116 12 0 PoiIits and crossings~ sum of...... ,.. .., ...... 280 0 0 ------6,396 12 0 L.aying permanent way, main line and sidings, sum of 972 0 0 Carriage of I)Crmanent·way m'aterials, sum of...... 928 0 0 Station (Terminal)-Passenger platform ( ft.) £ } ------1,900 0 0 Portable offices, quarters ...... 1· No. lit £i,OOO' 1,000', 0 0 Goods·shed (50 feet) and goods platform (100 feet) Station (RoadsideJ-Passenger platform ( ft.) £ } Portable offices ...... 1 No. at £500 .,Goods-shed (30 fe'et) and gooJ~ platform (100 feet) 1,500 0' 0 Trucking yard, 1 No. ,,, ...... 100' 0 0 Signals, sum of 150' 0 O· Telegraph, 11! at £20 225 0 0 25,321 10 2 , .Provision 10 per cent. Miscellaneous items and nnforese'en'colltingencies 2,532 3 0 Engineering and surveying ...... '" ...... 2,000 0 0 ----_._'-"' Total 29,853 13 2

Or £2,675' .per mile, exclusive of land and rolling·stock. The liile may be fir.t opened for public traffic for about £260 per mile less. G. A.-1.1:96~ F. ;R.-1.7.96. xxii APPENDIXJ.

Engineer-in-Chief's Office, Raihvay Department, Melbourne, 15th July, 1896. RUPANYUP TO BANYENA LINE. MEMO. I forward herewith, as requested, my estimate for a third-class railway to be constructed under the butty-gang system. If the line were constructed under the old system of single contract, the works which would be so let included in this estimate, amounting to £12,923, would, in my opinion, cost 12* per cent. more under the single contract system. ~ The present Lubeck aud Rupanyup line, going through similar country to that from Rupanyup to Banyena, stands in our books, exclusive of rolling-stock, at £4,750 per mile. This line was constructed under the old system. ' , I find that there is no inconsistency due to water provision between the estimates to Banyena and and Marnoo previously rendered. Engines of the F, G, J, P, S, 1', U, and W types (drawing herewith) may be used on second-hand 60-lb. iron rails with safety. The most powerful of these (the W) could haul 280 tons behind it up the \ ruling grade of 1 in 75, and engines of a much more powerful type suitable to this rail could be used if we had them. The life of these' second-hand rails would, under moderate traffic, be about twenty years. F. RENNICK, Engineer-in-Chief. The Secretary, Parliamentary Standing Committee on Railways.

APPENDIX K.

APPROXIMATE ESTIMATE OF COST OF RUPANYUP TO BANYENA LINE, 11 MILES 13 CHAINS IN LENGTH. RULING GRADIENT 1 IN 75; SHARPEST CURVE, 20 CHAINS RADIUS.-THIRD CLASS RAILWAY, WITH SMALL EQUIPMENT. BASED ON 6s. RATE OF WAGE.

( Description of Work, &:0. Cost. Total Cost. "--"--- £ $. d. £ s. d. Land.and compensation, sum of ...... , ...... 100 0 0 '" 4 Clearing, 11'16 miles at £20 ... , ...... , .. , ...... 223 0 Fencing ,.. ... } Cattle pits ... .., None provided. Level crossings and gate lIonses Earthworks in cuttings, 6,700 c. yards at Is. 3d. :.. ' .. ... ' .. ... , .. 41815 0 Earthworks in side cuttings and back cuttings, 53,300 c. yards at 10d...... ' .. 2,220 16 8 Earthworks in side ditches and creek diversions, 5,000 c. yards at 10d...... 208 (; 8 , 1617 6 Earthworks in drains, 150 I. chains at 28. 3d...... ' ...... Earthworks,in surface forming, 1611. chains at 15s...... , , .. 120 15 0 Earthworks !n app~oaches, road~, &0.,,,, ... } Included in side cutting. Earthworks III statIOn grounds, mcludmg platforms 2,985 10 10 Timber bridges, 7·ft. and 11·ft. openings, 2261. feet at £1138...... 37218 0 Box cnlverts, inclusive of excavation and ironwork, 5,390 c. feet at 2s. 6d ...... G7315 0 1,046 13 0 Metalling and gravelling roads, station grounds, 1,500 c. yards at 48. 3d...... , 31815 0 Ba.llast, ·1 inches under sleeper, boxed np to 8k inches, 15,000 c. ya.rds at 48. ". ' .. ... 3,000 0 0 Sleepers, 8 feet x !J inches x 41t inches, 22,!J00 No. at 3a. 2d...... 3,625 16 8 Permanent·way l,llaterials, main line and sidings (serviceable GO·lb. rails and fish platts and , , .. 4.498 4 0 new fastenings), 11'9 miles at £378 , .. '" ...... '" Points and crossings, sum of ... , ...... ", ... ' .. 200 0 0 ". 4,778 4 0 Laying penna.nent way, main line and sidings, sum of '" .. , ,., ... ". !J72 0 0 Carriage of permanent·way materials (included in cost of rails), sum of ...... Nil 972 0 0 Sta.tion (Terminal)-Passenger pla.tform ( feet) £ 500 0 0 Station buildings (including quarters) ... ' .. ::: }1 No. at £500 '" ." Goods-shed ( feet) and goods platform ( feet) Sta.tion (Roadside)-Passcnger platform ( foetI £ ,.. I. ~ 150 0 0 Station buildings (includings quarteI'8) .. , ::: J1 No.... at ~150 ." ", Goods.shed ( feet) and goods platform ( 'f~et) G50 0' 0 ,,, , , .. 100 0 0 Trucking yard, 1 No, ,,, .. ' ...... , 150 0 0 Signals, sum of ...... , ...... 225 0 0 Telegraph,, 111 miles a.t £20 ...... 18,175 3 6 Provision 10 per cent. Miscellaneous items and unforeseen contingencies ...... ,,, 1,817 10 4 ...... " . 1,800 0 0 Engineering and surveying ". ..' .. ' " ...... ,,, £21,792 13 10 Total ... .. , ...... , ...

Or £1,953 per mile, exclusive of land and rolling.stock. It would cost a.bout £140 per mIle more ~o prOVIde fencmg, gates, and ca.ttie·pits, which a.rc omitted from this estimate. G. A.-14.7.96. J? R.-15.7.96. 23

MINUTES . OF EVIDENCE. LIST OP WITNESSES.

Page Rennick, F., Engineer-in-Chief, Victorian Rllil;WllYS 1 Jones, :::!., traffic inspector, Victorian Railways 4 Cowland, W., hotelkeeper, Glenorcily 6 Laughton, J., carpenter, Gleporchy 6 Salter, S.,fariner, Glenorchy 7 Gorrie, A. J., farmer lind vigneron, Callawadda S'outh 7 McAllister, D., farmer, Cailawadda South 8 MeGregor, M., farmer, Cailawadda 9 Allsop, H. J., vigneron, Callawadda South 10 Clark,'R.,farrner and creamery manager; Callawadda So'uth 10 Wettenhail, H. H., grazier and farmer, Wirchilleba .... 10,40 Reading, C., farmer, Wallaloo ... 11 Andrews, S.,farmer and grazier, vValialoo ••• 12 'U'aviiis, J., farmer, Warngar ••• 12 Pickett, J. E., shire engineer and valuer, Dunmunkle ... . 18 Newell, C., farmer, Marnoo 15 Maconachie, G., farmer, Marnoo 16 Aitken, J., farmer, Marnoo' 17 McDonald, J., :fB:rnlcr, Marnoo ...... 17 Cumming, J.; farnier, Banyena 18 Reseigh; E., farmer, Banyena 19 Duke, A" farmer, Banyena 20 Grey, A., storekeeper, Banyena 20 Holland, J., farmer, Banyena .,. 21 Miller;-F., farmer and: grazierr Ban-Yiro'tl,' 21' Mackinnon, G., farmer and grazier, Marnoo 22 Osborne, G. Ii., commission agent, St. Arnaud 28 Lane, Z., mining manager, St. Arnaud ... 24 Boyle, J" farmer, Mitchell's Hill ... 25 Cunningham, ,T., farmer, Mitchell's Hill 25 Raeburn, J., farmer, Navarre 26 Ellen, G., farmer, Navarre 26 Pennington, 'r. E., farmer, Paradise 26 Stuart, J. A., postmaster, Navarre 27 Davies, D., farmer, Navarre 27 Smith, J., farmer, Navarre 28 Murray, A., farmer, Paradise 28 McI,eod, J. H., State-school teacher, Barkly 29 Cheeseman, J., storekeeper, Barldy ... 29 Simpson, G., butcher and farmer, Barkly 30 Schmidt, J., bln,ckslnith, Navarre ... 30 l\brland, J., farmer and digger, Frenchmans 80,31 Weir, .J., mining manager, Frenchmans 30 Emerson, G., farmer, Barkly ...... 30 Stockman, H. T., storekeeper, Moonambel 31 Adams, \V. A., grazier and vine-grower, MountcLin Creek 82 Wooldritlge, W. H., mining manager, Moonambcl 38 Snell, E., J.P., Avoca ... 34 Ross, J., shire secretary, Avoca 34 'Ebling, A., produce dealer, Avoca -35 Crerar, '1'. G., commission agent and farmer, Stttwell 36 Ord, M., journalist, :::!tawell 37 Clarke, A. II., shire engineer, Stawell 39 Skene, T., grazier aUtl farmer, Marnoo 40 25

MINUTES OF EVIDENOEo

RUP ANYUP AND MARNOO EXTENSIONS.

THURSDAY, 27TH FEBRUARY, 1896..

jJfambers present .- MR. CUIERON, in the Chair; The Hon. D. Melville, M.L.C., Mr. Bmton, The Hon. E. Morey, 2\'I.L.C. Mr. Craven, Mr. Harris, Mr. Trenwith. Francis Rennick, sworn and examined. 1. By the Ohairman.--What are you ?-Eugineer-in-Chief of the Victorian Hailways. 2. I see a report from you in August, 1893, with reference to this railway that we are to inquire into-have you been in that district since ?-No. 3. Have you any reason to alter your opinion as to the country and the proposed lines since then ?­ No, I still adhere to that report as the best means of supplying that district with railways. I gave tlH) agricultural statistics and population taken from the ceIiSlis. I do not know whether there is any altera­ tion in the population-I do not commit myself'in the statistics quoted then as- being applicable now, because I do not know, but as regards the best method of supplying the district with railways I adhere to . that. 4. Do you recommend that 87 miles of railway should be constructecl in this district to supply it properly ?-YC!!, from time to time, as may be desirable. - 5. We want to know what is necessary for the present (-Three years ago, when that report was written, I considered that the line from Rupanyup to St. Arnaud would be justified as the first line to make. Of course, I cannot vouch for that now. 6. Wllat wonld be the object of cOllnecting the two places ?-To give the intermediate population facilities for going to centres for marketing and taking their produce, either St. Arnaud or Stawell being the chief centres in that district. ' . 7. Do we understand that your policy would be to conllect two lines together, rather than to give facilities to people in parts of the colony who have no railways ?-It depends on the urgency of the require­ ments of the differeut populations. I simply suggested those lines as being suitable for developing and accommodating that district. If you ask me now whether I wcmld make that line immediately in prefer­ ence to any other line, that is it different question altogether. : 8. When there are two lines funning parallel some 40 miles apart, it seems to me they would be well accommodated without lURking a line to connect those two parallelliues, and you suggest sending a branch from one to reach a certain point in the· other ?-The intermediate population want' to go to both places, and to serve those people you wonld have to connect Lubeck with St. Arnaud. This isa line that I think should be mnde ; when, of conrse, is a different question, and in what proportion-whether it should be made the whole distance at once or only a portion of the distance is a very debatable point. 9. Yon prefer the line from Hnpanyup to St; Arnaud rather than from Rupanyup to Cope Cope ?- Yes. 10. Is that- on account of the llItture of the country itself ?-N.o, it is because at Cope Cope the trunk line is nearer to the Service ton line. II. What is the distance between St. Arnaud and Melbourp.e ?-The railway map will show all that. J do not profess to carry those figures in my head. 12. Whnt is the distauce between Hllpanyup and Melbourne ?-21Oi miles, vi&- Geelong, and between Rupanynp and St. Arnaud it is about 40 miles. 13. If a co.nnexion were made between St. Arnaud and Rupanyup, the Rupanyup people wonld go by St. Arnaud if they wished to come to Melbourne, in preference to coming by Lubeck and that line ?~ I cannot say what they would do; but if the distance is shorter by St. Arnnud, and they had to pay the mileage, I should think they wonld go by the shorter route. . 14. You wonld study whether yon would make a line to connect two lines, an(l rob oue of its legitimate trnffic and give it to another ?-It is nltogethel' a question of the conditions. If you want to serve the people in the most cOllvenient way 101' them, and develop the district and country, you wonld make certain lines, just ns that I would propose that line. You might, of course, rob one line and feed another, but the object would be to develop the country and serve the popnlation. That would be my primary object in proposing n railway. The other would be the mere accident of the conditions. I do not see that because a district has to pay a roundabout railway carriage; nml is remote from a milway, that that district is not to be accommodated with railwnyfacilities better than it possesses at present. 15. Certainly not, if there were no other greater demand on the resources of the country?-Just so; it is all a question of expediency. . 16. In time of economy and during a time that the conn try is not nble to constrllct railwa.ys to every place, it is the places, that require them ll10~t that should I)e considered, and Ilot 1!1O~e plac .... ::< l.h;,L are within a reasonable distance of a railway 7-1 quite agree with that sentiment. You see my report i~. for the serving of that district at any future time, nIld as to how the lines and what' exLent Of l.nes 'should be constructed wouhl depend, of course, on 1he existing conditions at the particular time.' B Fra.ncis Rennick, 2fth February. 1896 2

17. Under present eircumstances, wOllhl YOll recommend the construction of a line from Rupanyup to St. Amand ?-I think a portion of th:; line might vary fairly he constructed HOW. 1'8. Which eml ?-That I am very doubtful about, mid that is within the functions of this Committee to inquire into hIlll detel'inine. Tile Rupanyup lille is one that should never hnve been made, in my opinion, but being there, it is a question whether it would not be beLLer to extend it 20 or SO miles fnrther to serve the intermediat.e country. I think it is very likely that would be the better line to COllstruct first. 19. Do you know the valley of the H,ichardson River?-Yes. 20. From further south, opposite Glenorchy or Stawell ?-Yes. 21. Which of the cross-lines under review now wo'uld be better to serve the country than a line down the valley of the Richardson ?-If that line bad not beell made,' I should say it should go from Glenorchy through Carr's Plains closc by Marnoo, (HId turn over to St. Arnaud. 22. If Su, why would you recommend the Rupauyup end ?-I suy, if the Rupanyup line had not been made.

23. Hus t.his line been pcrmrmently surveyed 1":"":N 0, none of them have. I The better country for cereals is further north; the country near Glenorchy is not of very good qllulity-not first-class. The Rup'"nyup country is !illlCh superior for grain-growing. . 2 i. Do yon know the ,country .n.hout Wallaloo?-Yes, thltt is vary fail' agri~nltllral country. 25. 011 up to l\1:arnoo ?-The ,country is very good from Rupanyup till ):ou,get withjn a few miles of St. Arnaud. 26. Is the conntry good about' Ihnyena ?-Ycs, excellent.. 27. And furthel' UOl·tll still ?-Along the two trunk lines the couutry is good, and from reports I have heard, I take it that tlw intermedinte country is of the same favorable e!mracter. 28. By the '][011. D. j/felville.-Between Rupanyul) and Cope Cope is about. t5 miles ?-Yes. . '29. People in tile cOlltre of tlmL coulltry are' only 12 llliles from eithcr milway; they can go to Cope Cope or Rup"nynp in 12 or 13 miles-is tllat I the correct dista.nee between Rupanyup and Cope', Cope '?-It is auout 2l:i wiles. ' . 30. That leave5 It m!in in Lhe centro within 12 miles of either line; t.hat is, at Banyena he can choose t.wo lines ofl'llitwn.Y7'""if he livesin the very centre of the position he Cl1!l take'one line at 12 miles; and the other at IS 1-Yes. 31. 'When YOll strike the line at St. Arnaut!., YOll o'nly begin to give a man at Bltnyena another line. of railway that he will t.ake in place of taking HlIpallyHp~yoll give him three liues then, if a line 'yere constmctecl from Lubeck 10 ~t. AI'll:t1ll1 ?-Ye~, ha cnn go to ,Rupauyup 01' Cope Copa-he would take !.he cro.;s lin~. It would be made pm'tly for his accommodation and partly for those further south. 32. This cross lille of 40 nules wonl.d simply take away a hl.rge quantity of the' centre stnff that now' goes to U,np:Luyup 0)' Cope Cope ?-It would have to go to l~upanyllp if it went by the Serviceton line. instead of going to Cope Cope station it would go to Ht. Arnaud. 33. It woul,l come to this !lew tmck'! -That is what the ncw track would be made for, to Il.ceommotiato that district. , 34. Then t.llC lIew proposition is to give better aceommoclation to the people about Banyella and thoSJ centres ?-Banyella being the lIorthcl'll portiOlt of the district; but the sonthern portion is the chief 'coJlsidemtion-'Vallaloo, Marno\>, and Gre Gre. 35. Strictly speaking, it is this bit in the centre that i~ now 20 miles off n railway station; that is ,thc griev:mce at preseut ?-Yes. 36. As to tllis small piece that is 20 miles, the feeding ground is very much Imrrowed there; it' would be within 5 or 6 m.Ues ?-Take 6 or 7 miles north, nnd 8 or 10 miles 80uth, that wonld bo the feeding gronnti. I have shown on the map accompanying the re[)()rt what, I think, is the district that would be· sen'e,l, and I also tabulate the area. I refer ill Illy report to the map and the tabnlated statement. ::37. By llfr. Trenwif}I.-There have been other proposals fur serving that district; are they shown on th:l.t map? - Yes, the trial lines are all shown from Rnpanynp to Cope Cope, and Rupanyup to St. A1'lll1ud, but none further south. This is not the pIau that accompnnied my report. . 38. The infOrHllttion (Jotltaiuetl in the map YOIl submittal[ ill the report wil! b3 included in the plans that you al'e having pl'ep:Hed?-Yes, I will see to that. 39. By the HOlt. D. Melvilit.-WiIl the estimates be founded on figures collected in 1893, 1894, alJ(1 1895 ?-I have snpplietl only 1893 figures, I believe. I state in my report what year the ligures are for. This is what I say-the population is taken from tho 1891 cousus, but the agricultural statistics are f.)r 1892-3. What I unsed my figures on is all gi veil in Illy report. Now, of course, YOIl want other statistics for the present circnmstances. Yon have 1I0t :tSketiltle for any, and you usually get those from the Commissioners. 40. By JJf1'. Bllrton.-Witll regard. to the eountrY.Horth of Banyena, IIl'Ve you visited that ?-No, excepting along the two trunk railways. 41. In a straight line between Banyena and Cope Copo ?-1 have not been through there. I know the conutry along the two trunk milways, and I know tllG country uy Banyella, having visited it, and I takc it tllat the country north of Banyena is similar to what it is there. going by information received-the same as the DOllald line. 42. As to the couutry south of BallYClw" how far south have you been ?-ToWallaloo and to Navarre, L think I have 'been right through between those'two. 43: What is the chal'Ucter of the land to the south of Banyen!!., as far ItS those places ?-It is all faidy gO()ll conntry, but not 80 good sonthwards as it is at Banyenll -not so good at Nayarre' in the ranges. \Yalla\o" is liS go:)(l as Banyeillt, and ,)Iarnoo is as good ItS Banyella. 44 HoI\' fm'is \V allal 00 from Navarre?'-Ahout W miles. 45. lbve ·yon travelled the country between Glenorchy and Wallaloo ?-Yes; the poor land I spoke IIf extellded 5 or 6 miles, and then wc got into fairly good country, but not quite equal to the couutry north. , 4g. That.) or 6 miles is already sel've,l by Glellol'chy?-Yes. ,47. T:lureforc, it \Yonilluot be considered in the preseut question of the construction of an exten­ ,sion ?-No, tho country improves after that., but it is !lot equal to the country round Ballyena. I have beeu to elm",; Plaills., I think I saw wheat growing then with good crops; it i~ a goo,l pa;tch of country 27

Francis Rennick, . 3 !7th February, 1896. ' there. If you made a line from Glenorchy to St. Arnaud it shonld htp 8 or 10 miles south of the line' There is some inferior conntry in that patch ill ihe ranges. 48. What is the through (Iistallce from Rupanyup to St. Arnaud by the survey ?-39~ miles, 'Viti Bany~na. 49. You stated in the rcport the distance via Banyena from Lubeck is 50 miles ?-Yes. 50. What is the distance of the existing line ?-10 miles is the length; that would leave 40 miles. 51. If the lines were made from Rupanyup to St. Arnaud, it wonld he almost the same distance as straight across from Glenorchy to St. Arnaud ?-Yes. 52. Farmers, in sending the produce from this central part, would be how many miles nearer Mel­ bourne when they got to Glenorchy than they would be at Lubeck ?-Glenorchy on this map is 162 miles, and Lubeck, 175; that is 13 miles less carriage. Certainly, taking the centres, Melbourne and Geelong, the population would be best served by the line to GJenorchy; that is, they wonld have shorter. carriage. . 53. You examined the country between Avoca and Navarre ?-'-Yes. 54. Was there a large popUlation at the time you examined it?-Yes, a considerable mining popula.­ tion along that route. 55. Was the.population there greater than the population on any of the other lines ?-Yes, that was' the greatest. In my report I say-" The popuiation per mile is greatest in the following order :-Avoca to Navarre (96), Avoca to Minyip (66), Lubeck to St. Arnaud (56), Glenorchy to St. Arnaud (52),' Lubeck to St. Arnaud and Glenorchy to Wallaloo (45). In the first two cases the greater part of the population is engaged in mining and would not contribnte mllch in tonnage to a railway. 56. What wl!:s the produce that yon noticed principally in this district ?-:-Wheat and oats. 57. Where would be the market for that ?-For expo,rt, it would of course be Europe, but under the present circumstances I suppose a lot of it might go now to Ben(ligo and Ballarat. 58. Are you aware where the local people get their market for the grain when they dispose of it 1- :From inquiries in the district, the chief centres are St. Arnaud and Stawell-the Wallaloo people go to Stawell, and those nearer St. Arnaud to St. Arnaud. It was on that ground that I recommended that cross­ conntry line instead of the trunk line f1'on1 Avoca to Minyip on account of the local ceutres and the people having their conne~ion with them. 59. Have YOIl the surveyed line from Maruoo to Banyena, submi tteJ to the Committee ?-Yes, I have a little map showing it. ,. 60. You notice that the proposed line referred to the Committee, after going west part of the way,' makes a peculiar boomerang-shaped bend IIp to Banyena and np again to Marnoo ; do yon think, if that line were eonstructed, the farmers would eonsent to pay for the carriage of their stnff all round that line to' the main line, when they could by a few miles more cartage take it to Stawell ?-I do not think anybody would go to a railw\ty, carting 5 miles to a new railway, if they had an existing one 20 or 30 miles nearer ~::[elboume that they could cart to in 5 or 10 miles. 61. This lanel that YOll speak of is poor to the SOllth ?-I describe the land in my report. 62. You notice in the pal'ish of "Varngar there are some timber reserves; is that the country that yon speak of as poorer than that further to the north ?-Yes, the rangey conntry. 63. Are you aware where the mines at Stawell get their supply of props for mining pnrposes from? -I have a vague notion. They get it, of conrse, from the nearest forest. I think tlmt part supplies a large qnantit.y. .' 64. JJy th8 Ron. E. filorey.-There woultl be a great traffic for that timbet' ?-There should be a. timber traffic, especially if the line were made from Glenorchy, the southern line. 65. By JJlr. Bw,ton.-Would that line, if made to Marnoo, be sufficiently near to induce the carters to take the timber Illul mining props to the line, illstend of taking them direct to Stawell by team-I mean the line referred to us, to Maruoo 1-1 think so. I think the timber would go to that !lew line. It would be within 7 or 8 miles t~ the llearest part of the forest. 66. By the Chairntan.-As to the distance from RupallYup to St. Arnaud, yon would prefer the Rupanyup end, if only one·half is to be constructed 1-Ye3, because there is a coekspnr mil way 10 miles long, and the additional 20 mile5 eould be worked as cheaply nearly as the 10 miles, if that were extehdfld. G7. What is the difference in the cost of construction, 20 miles from Rupllnyup and 20 miles from St. Arnaud ?-An estimate has not been made for 20 miles from St. Arnaud. I have been over the route; the 20 miles from Rnpanyup is estimated at £2,767 a mile; the St. Arnaud to Rupanyup line is estimated at £2,804-there would not be a very great difference for the 20 miles from St. Arnand.-:.it would eost not more than £3,000 a mile. 68. It shows that the S1. Amand would be dearer?-Yes, a little more expensive, because the country is rougher. 69. By the Hon. D. 1Jlelville.-Is there not a great deal of crabholey coutltry ?-That is ou the. plains, near RupanYllp. 70. As you approach St. Arnaud it is hillier ?-Yes. . 71. I B it not ..llIore settled ?-Of course, there is a large popUlation at and around St. Arnaud, but they are already served. There is a lot of gravelly soil approaching there, diggings country, but stilluone, of it is diffienlt country. ' 72. What differenee is there between your estimate now per mile, froIp. Rupanyup to Marnoo, and the previous estimate ?-The boom estimate was £5,251 per mile, including land, now it is practieally half of that, without Jand ; that means complete ·for from five to ten years' development of the country. . 73. How do you propose to construct the line ?-By bnttygangs. . 74. If the Minister steps in, what then-is there any alteration of wages ?-My es timates are based. Oll 68. per day for navvies, and if the Minister says we must pay 75. or 8s. it would, of course, increase the eost. 75. The estimate is based on the buttygang system of 68. a day ?-That is it. i6, Is there, any other variable quantity?-Yes. There are other contingencies. For instll.nee, I: make my estimate according to what I consider is required' on a railway or may be required within III'

B~ Francis Rennick. 27th February. 1896 4

certain period. The Board of Land and Works, or the Ministel' su bject to pressure, orders more sta.tions, more sidings, more equipment, and larger accommodation altogether; that increases the cost. If he does not do that, then my estimate holds good .. 77. Then where does the Raihvays Committee corne in-what do we fix ?-l need not tell, you what your functions are, but my view is that you reeommend. 78., We are trying to get at what this railway shonld cost from people ontside the Committee; on . whom are we to depend-on you 1-That is within your discretion. If YOll do not depend on me you can,:. gp to others outside the Department. It may cost a., great deal less' than the estimate, as some of the lighter lines have done. You have to consider politieal exigencies, the Minister, anet the Board of Land; and Works. . 79. The Minister could vary the wages a little ?-Yes j or he might reauee them, as the Pa.tterson . Government did. . " 80. Then the other element is that the Board of Construction might order more stations ?-Yes, , more equipment generally and larger works. " , . 81. By the C1Lai1·man.-What did you base the wages on for the OnttriQlline 1..:...... 5s. a day. ' 82. And they are raised to 6s.?-Yes. 83. Did the extra shilling make the difference betwcen £20,000 and £25,000 ?-The 6s. a day would aecount for £3,500. , 84. By tiLe .lIon. E. l'11orey.-What do YQu pay mechanics ?-Bricklayer8, 8s. a day; caqienters, about the same; blacksmiths, 88. or 98. a day-I do not employ any masons. There is, a minimum wage which is inserted in all thE!. contracts that are let hy I,he Railway Department. You will see the wages' there--Iabourers there are 6s. 8d. a day; mechanics are variable rates; bnt I am not beund by those rates. In constructing railways I am allowed to pay 6s. a day. 85. Do YOll intend to recommend the rails we have on hand for those railways ?-,-Yes. , 86. What weight are those ?-Wfl have (jO-lb. steeh'ails ; 60-lb. iron rails, seeond-hand; and It short. mileage of 50-lb. iron rails. We wonld lay down 60-lh. steel rails; that is what those estimates lire based on, rails in the colony-there are only nbont 60 miles of those; but when, those rails are exhausted" any f]1rther lines made of new rails will~ be abont £140 a mile more, 011 aeoount of I;he increase of priee and freights. , '87~ By Mr. Harris.-Is the inerease of freights and price for rails likely to continue ?~Yes, I think they are likely to advance. , " 88. By the Hon. D. 1J1elville.-I suppose we have arrived at about our minimum now?-Yes, I think so. I think the tendency is for things to go up, for mnterial and Inbour too. . 89. Have yon any idea 01' being ahle, liy any of the limy notions that you read or hear of, to get our railways const.ructed at the same price as ill New South "Wales 1-1£ I 'cannot make rnilwnys cheaper than New South Wales you cap. transport me there. 90. By Mr. Burton.-Yolll' estimate for the line is £2,767 pel' Illile; your estimate for the former, part of that line is £3,000?-Yes; prices were higher three years ago. 91. Does this £2,767 per mile include allY cost for mils ?-Yes. I allow £500 odd per mile for the ralls. It takes that for the rails and the earriage of all the materials carried on the existing raiLways. 92. Then tlmt £2,767 would not be altogether expended per mile on account of havi\lg the ra.ils'in hand ?-The money to be paid would be so much less, but this £2,700 odd would be charged to this line. 93. But still we have not to layout the money ?-N0, there is so much material already availo.ble included in that price. 94. So that those rails at present are lying idle 1-They are waiting fOl: new Jailways-for the Railways Committee to recommend some llew lines. 95. So the actual outlay would be £2~267 per mile 1-Yes, or a little less. Tlte witness withdrew.

Samuel Jones, sworn and examined. 96. By tlbe Cltairman.-What are you ?-Traffic inspector. 97. You reported at the beginning of this year on the line from Rupanynp to St. Arnaud ?-Yes" I do not know 'the country further south-I did not go beyond the south· part of Marnoo, just on .the north of Wallaloo. , ' , 98. Yon cannot gi ve any infonnati.on then as to any other line except the oue from Rnpanyup to, St.'Arnand ?-No, and RUpfll1yUp to Maruoo. ' " ," 99.' You could not, if necessary, give any information with. reference to the, line to Cope Cope ?- I could give my opiuions as to it, but I have not been over the line b8twe~1I B(IIlyena and Cope Gope, r -i00. You recommend in 'your report the constl'llction of a line for 20 miles ?.,--I do Ilot think 1 rec~mmend it-I suggest an alternative. I was asked by the Commi~sioners to report on a line ~erminating 25 miles from RupanYllp. I eould not give an iflea of the l?opn,lation ;, it would be o,n.ly. from hearsay. .' 101. Then how do you nrri ve at the area under euhIvatLOn 1-,-1< rom the quantIty of produee thnt IS .trucked at the stations at the various tenninaLs; such as Cope Cope, Rupitnyup, a!lCl St. A1'llaud. . 102. You, do not make' nny inquiry' yourself?-Yes, I go' round and speak to the fa.rmers, and ihterview people on the road. ' 103. You pnt down the traffic on this line for 20 miles at 5,365 tons ?-Yes. ( i04. Including inward and outward tratlic ?-Yes. '... ' 105. You merely ascertain this at the station ?-I tmvelled along t]:le 1111e OlLone. sHle of It, .and about 5 miles to the' north; and then when I came from Rnpanyup I trayelled on south. I obtaIned information fr~m the stations, Cope 'Cope, Rupanyup, aud St. Arnaud, as to the. traffic, and of conrse I base the traffic on that for Inst year. .' ( 'c 106. Is it ~ot possible that they would scnd it, ,my, 25 miles (listance. ,'to ~{~panyup or, vice versa, or 27 miles distancc, to St. Arnaud ?:-:-I thi!lk more produce wonld go on the IIllEf. If It wen,t toSt, Arnaud. I t,hink the .e~tra mileage from Ma:i'Doo a!ldi·?llFl.d Rnpanyup. to Sta.':e~l woul~;yeryli~ely; pre,vent:the trade ~!W"vEl m!ghtgl'!ffrorri St~ 'w~ll ; if th~re ,:;w~re ,another lille }~hl,nk: th\" p~orle wou~~ cart them stuff t,Q f,' -. ~ " ». ' ~.... '" -. ' , • 29

Samuel Jones. 1 5 27th February, 1896'

Stawell. For instance, we have about 6,000 bags of wheat taken to Stawell from Wa11aloo and Marnoo. I do not think the farmers would pay that if there were a line from Marnoo. 107. You would not think that produce 20 miles from Rnpauyup line would go from 1Vallaloo to that line ?-N 0, ldo not think they would use it. I think they would still keep earting their stuff to Stawell, except a few within 4 or 5 miles. 108. Then if' you think there would be more traffic, or that more of the distri'ct would send their stuff to St. Arnauel, why not construct the line from St. Arnaud for 20 mqe~?-V !)ry little of the stuff would stay at St. Arnaud or at Rupanyup. 109. You have no knowledge of the area under cultivation or tpe yield per acre ?-No, excepting what the people tell me. They say ifthe whole of the district is averaged at 10 bushels to the acre it is a fair average, take it right through. That average is arrived at by the produce that is trucked from the stations. 110. Suppose this line wcre constructcd, how many miles north and how many miles south would you allot to that for feeding ground to the railway ?-H thc Rnpanyup to Marnoo line were constructed, I think very little to the north of Bnnyena would go to it, because the freight would be more-it would go to Cope Cope; but if the line were const.ructed to St. Arnaud, the ehances are that the people would use that line as the milea.ge is less. The mileage is too much; adding 13 miles to Banyeua on to 206 miles to Melbourne it makes 219 miles, and from Cope Copc to Melbourne it is 175. Another point about the lin!) if! that the people a little north of Banyena" the district called Hurl'ereo, go to Minyip and 'Rupanyup, and they wonld use the other line. ' Ill.' From what area of country is this 5,363 tons to eome ?-It would come from the M!trnoo country, I think about 250,000 acres altogether. That is the arelL of country, and of that, from my own observation, I do not think there is more thltu one-teuth under cultivation at the present time. 112. Will there ever be more than that under cultivation ?-1 cannot say. There is a good deal in fallow, and a great amount of grazing area. People ,holding some 3,000 and 4,000 acres cultivate about 500. 113. When you were there last you did not think there was more than one-tenth cultivated ?-No; I was there on the 2nd of January. I lIlay say I inteiviewe(l a farmer at what they call Traynor's Lagoon, 18 miles from St. Arnaud and 13 miles from Cope Cope, and he thought he was very well served, and did not want a railway. The rich~~t of tnEl groynd is t9 th~ north of that; what they call the Avon Plains; that is within about 10 miles of Cope Cope. ' 114. You do not give much for tl,e passenger traffic 011 tlmt, lip.? ?-No, the farming population is very poor passenger traffic anywhere; about twelve each way is about as much as there would be. 115. What would be the freight of this 5,363 tons on that 20 miles ?-It is estimated to be £970, that is the goods revenue, and passenger revenue £75. Of course, I have lessened the traffic from Banyena, on the 1\fa,rnoo line, from the fact that I think it would nearly all go to Cope Cope. If the line went through to St. AI'naud, I think we w-ould get more traffic, because it makes the mileage so much less. Ballarat would come closer for Marnoo people altogeLher thau round by I\upanyup. 116. By J.l:fr. Trenwitk-From what you could see, do you think there would be any material development or increase in agriculture if the line were made from St. Arnaud ?-:N 0, I do not think so. Cultivation depends altogether on the prices; the land goes into cultivation one year and goes out agruq. ' 117. -rou think if the line were extende(lfrQII\ Rllpanyyp the people would nClt u~e it ?-::( think not. 118. By the Hon. lJ. Melville.-Did YOll find plany people withi~ 5 or 10 1!'!iles of a railway now 90mplainiug ?-They mostly complained about Marnoo. . 119. How many miles away from a railway (lid they cQTPplain ?.,..,-About 10 or ]2 miles. 120. How fILl' were the people that were cOllwlaining from the nearest railway ?-The Marnoo people ;1l'e 14 miles from Rupanyup -they eomplain of the bad roads in the winter. They are forced to take their stuff away in the summer-that is t,heir great complail!~-apd they caurJ,()t save it up. 121. Take the other !lido, how fur wOj:!ld they pe from a railway tl~ere ?~24 miles from St. Arnaud, Il,nd 28, or 29 miles from where they are to Stawell, and at present there is a good deal of ~rfl.ffic going by road to Stawell. 122. What st(tte did you find the roads in ?..... Very good. I was tllere in January. '123. Down on the crab holey phi-in towards' St. Arnaud, was that nnd~r cultivation? - 'Yes, with wheat and oats. This year it was cut a great deal for hlleY and chaff. 124. Did those miles of country that are cr~bllOley yieh! ;tnything?-There are patches of farms about; ther(Cj are pig areas of grazing. 125. What is a fair distance from a railway at that particular place that a man could cart ?-Within from 12 to 15 miles they are not badly' off. Many farmers say, if they can get to a station and back in a day they are perfectly satisfied. ' 126. How mnch of that conntTJ is within 15 miles ?-Very little of it. You understand I did not recommend the line being made. That farmer at Traynor's Lagoon did not think a railway necessary. 127. By the }jon. E. Mm·ey.-How .much ground is there under cultivation there ?-About one~ tenth of the whole of that area. ' 128. What is the size of their holdings ?-Mr. Skene, at the Maruoo estate, has 15,000 or 16000 acres-he is leasing out some of his land now. I understand he has about 4,000 acres leased out in l~rge farms of 1,200 and 1,500 acres. 129. That is principally sheep farming?-Yes. 130. That will not bring much to the railways ?-No, I do not thiuk it will. 131. Is it good land?-Yes, it is about Banyena, Avon Plains, and l\:l'arnoo. 132. What sized farms have the ma:jority of t,Ile settlers ?-I have a list. I was not down at Wallaloo ; they say the holdings are smaller down that way. Mr. Boyle is another large farmer, with 4,000 acres; Mr. Newell has 2,000 ; Mr. Dym', about a,OOO-he is nearer Rupanyup. McDonald and Pilgrim there have 3,000-acro blocks; Mr. Ettersly, 2,300 acres-he cultivated 300 acres last year. 133. What percentage do the big holders cultivate ?-Taking their o\vn word for it, they cultivate one-third. Samuel Jones,. ,.27th }'ebl'Uary, 1896. -6 134. I suppose they have increased their holdings by buying their neigllbonrs out ?-,Yes. 135. ~early all this land is good land ?-Yes, very good. 136. Adapted for growing graiu, barley, and wheat 1-Yes, a great deal of it. 137. Is it advisable to make a railway into a place where there' !Ire such larue holders ?-No, I do not think so. ' " . . ' 138 . .By M1'. Hurton.-I have 3, report here signed by the Victorian Railways Commissioners; is thiS based on the figut'es you supplied ?-I think so. . 139. I notic? it corresponds closely with the fignres yon give about the probable traffic?-Yes. 140. There IS an item I would like an explanation about; it i8-" Estimated l'evenue from carriage .of foregoin& traffic over existing railways, £367 lOs." ?-That means in estimating the tramc. I came to the conclUSIOn that there would be chaff, through their going in for saving their straw, and the extra chaff traffic would probably represent that amount. It is practically traffic that would be developed. 141. "~8timated revenue fr(Jm carriage of foregoing traffie over existing liues," what does that mean ?-That IS the only way 1 can account for it. 142. Is it traffic that would be developed and taken o\'er the llew lines ?-Yes; there is a note there-" This amount is for new traffic expected to arise owing to constrnction of the line," 143. If you look at Appendix D you see there a similar Itmount ?-Yes, that is 011 the through line, 144. There is £1,695 lOs. expected to be received from a similltr traffic ?-The Commissioners have estimated that on the increase mileage and the increased traffic that would he the amount. , 145. You notice that the one suur is almost eqnal to the whole traffic over the whole line, the pro­ ,posed .line to St. Arnaud ?-Yes, bnt if you notice in the Marnoo report there isa very large reduction ~ade In .the .Banyena tmffic. The BanyolllJ. traffic ou the through line i~ 'much more than on the Marnoo 'lme, which IS 1,200 tOllS less. The witness withdrew. Adjourned.

(Taken at Glenorchy.)

WEDNESDAY, 11 TH MARCH, 1896. Members present,' MR. CAMERON, in the Chair; The Hon. D. Melville, M.L.C. Mr. Burton, Mr, Hards, Mr. Trenwit.h, . William Cowland, sworn and examined. 146, To the Chairman.-I am keeping a hotel at present. I have been twenty yeal's in tllis district. I have grazing land let. It is partly down the river, and partly in Gampola. I know the district where they are.asking to have a railway. If the line crossed from this line to the Donald line, Glenorchy should 'be the starting point. I know Maruoo and Wallaloo. The line would go in between Marnoo and Wallaloo. I know Bnnyena; it would not touch Banyena. I do not ndvocate that it should be connected with St. Arnaud. The people ronnd here want a line something like J9 miles from Glenorchy, which they consider :will serve all that is, required; that would make vVallaloo or Marnoo wit,hin a mile or so, and they ask for a line from Glenorchy to Marnoo or Wallaloo, and they thillk it will serve all that country. Wallaloo, would suit the low Marnoo country. It would put thousands of acres nnder cultivation that are not under cultivation now between Glenorchy and Marnoo. After you get out 10 miles from Glenorchy there is good ',cultivation-I cannot say how much. The reason I say start from Glenorchy is becanse it is the handiest place you can get beca,use the distance is so short, and you are into good land as soon as yon get 10 miles out of Glenol'chy. If yon go 20 miles towltrds Wallaloo, taking 10 miles each side of your line, you are' satisfying the people all round within that radiu!!. The people 10 miles beyond Maruoo would be satisfied with that. The people of'the district wish the line to go as far as Wal/aloo aud no fnrther. A cheap line to there would serYe all purposes. Glenorchy is not a markct to"'I1-Stawell is the market town. I speak in the interests of Stawell and Glenorchy, and in the'interest of the people who deal with them. The witness withdrew. ' Johu Langhton, sworn and examined. 147. To tile Ckai1·man.-I am a carpenter, residing in Glenorchy-I have no land. I have a fair general idea of the land between here and Wallaloo and Marnoo. ,I prefer the line from GlenQrchy to as near to Wallaloo and Marnoo as the interests of the line would allow. That would be rar enongh to supply between that and the Donald line, becanse if you take 10 miles from a railway station as a stal't, you then get within 20 miles of St. Arnaud. The balf of thnt distallee wonld be supplied by that line, and half by 'this line. It is 40 miles and a few ehains from here to St. .Al'llaud by the old survey. The whole of the land between Glellorchy and Wallaloo is not well cultivated now because the people have been 1;10 far from a market that it would ilOt pay to el1ltivate, ami they have gOI:e iHto grazing. There is no Qne in that locality within 10 miles of a milway. Ten mileA ont ofGlenorchy it belongs to a large grazier, :vho resides at Gee[ollg. Culti vation begills at the Dogtmp Cre"k; there ILre a few farmers there clIltivating. This, ;C th~nk, is the most. direct liJie you can get to Stawell without over/apping the other line. I know the country between \'Vallaloo and St. Arnaud fairly well. There is a fltir a.monnt of cultivation going on there, as much as,they have been able to cultivate, and if they had a railway they would cnltivate morc. Between Wallaloo and St. Arnaud they have not more cultivalion than between GlenOl'chy and Wallaloo. 'Niue miles out of Glenol'chy there is no cultivation, but there is wool. Wherever you make a ,new line, 31 John Laughton, 7 11th March, 1896.

the first 10 miles is unprofitable. As 10 St. AnmnJ, all t:18 b:l~iaoS3 intcrusts of the iuhabilants here are ~with Stawell, and if yon compellcd t!lom to bro'l!;: lip thos,~ illt8rJsts with St~I\\'('ll it wonlll, iu mauy cases, mean leaving the land. . 148. -To MI". 1~·enwith.-Tho l>:g ost.ato is ahollt 2D,O:n aeres; it is all good agril?nltuml land. All the land about here is good agricnllnr:d l'lllu. 1 do Hot thiuk there is all acre that is barren, because if it would not do for cereals it wonld llo for oreimnls. Must of thc men are away at their work to-day at Glenorchy. There are places where they have had to clear out, and have been Lought up by the large landholder. 149. To tlte Chairman.-In tbis district the small holders are geuemlly selling out to the large holders. 150. To MI". IIarris.-Tbat is through bad seasons in some cases, but eyery man's business vnries. 15l. To the Chair17lan.-They gave it up because eult.ivatiug the land would not pay; but in other cases the cultivation has paid them, so I suppose it has been impl'lluence in business, starting with too small a capital and so on, because there are other landholders who have flourishEllI. One old gentleman occupied his land for fifteeu or sixteen years, allli went away with about £~Oo, besides keeping himself, .and starting members of his family. This has been an ex:ceptionlll year, but as an average I shonld say they g3t from two nnd a half to tillee hags to tbe ncre for tbe last four or five years. . 1.52. To lIfr. Rurton.-From Stawell to Wallaloo there are some steep gradients, and the line rnns nellrly pamllel. When you get 18 miles from Stilwell you are only 9 from Glenorchy. The rauges are an .obstacle, and there is the river bet,,-ecil. You would save £3,000 or £4,000 in a couple of bridges there. The starting of the rail way from Glenol'chy woubl s~LI'e the eost of t.hat bridge across the Wimmera. The bridge made across the Wimmera near here is ahout a t.hird of a mile; it is made with timber piles, but it has always been in state of repair. I would like to point out that as there has been so much talk abont the line to Rupanyup, it is the same distance from Wallaloo to Marnoo as it is from those places to Glenorchy. If yon construct 20 mile~ to there, you get so much nearer the higher part, but if to Rupanyup, you are over 20 miles further away. The witness withdrew. Samuel Salter, sworn and examined. . 153. To tlte Chairman.-I am a farmer; I have 500 acres. I grow wheat and oats. I generally cultivate abont 60 acres and graze the remainder. We cannot cnltivate it all. I am within 3 miles of a railway station. I put in the following letter :- 11 th March, 1896. The Chairman Parliamentary Standing Committee on Railways. Sm-I beg to point out. the advantages of making the proposed extension to Wallaloo from Wal 'Val. 1. That about 5 miles of line are already made in that direction, viz., the Gra,-el'pit line. 2. That the saving on the 5 miles would be about £12,000. 3. That the cost of strengthening the Gravel-pit line would not exceed £200. 4. The advantage 'of the gravel pits on the line. 5. That the line could be taken along an unused 3-chain road, obviating the cost of purchasing land. 6. That the route is shorter, being at right angle to the main line. Yours obediently, SAMUEL SALTER. The witness wiJ,hcl1-ew. Adjourned.

(Taken at Oallawadda South.) Archibald J. Gorrie, sworn and examined. 154. To the Chairman.-I am a farmer and vigneron. I reside about a quarter of a mile from here. I do not hold any land in my own uame.I am with my father and always have been since we started farming, and he has about 1,000 acres-I am working with him. At present there is none under crop, but we had about 200 IIcres cleared for cultivation. "Ve nsed to cultivate aboqt. 50 acres on the average; we have not been dependent on what we produced by agricnlt.ure-we I!'raze sheep and cat.tle, and we supply milk to the oreamery. At present we milk only about It dozen cows, owing t.o the dry weather, but our aver­ age is twenty cows-we have gone np to 25. Each cow averages about 2 gallons. We got £85 last year for milk lit the creamery; we shear 1.000 sheep. Last year we had seventeen or eighteen bales of wool. We have about .15 acres under vines; -1 acres are bearing no,,', and in )0 acres a few are bearing. Three or 4 acres have been bearing the. last year 01' two-we have made a little wine. The year before last we made abont 400 gallons of wine. I suppose that woulLl be about. 3,000 lbs. weight. 1 have not calculated how many tons we would supply to a railway, but I think a railway in the district would give people enconragement to go in for more things. The time devoted to cartage would be saved-people could pay more attention to the farms, and t.he horses conld be utilized on the farm instead of having to cart. If we had a railway we would put more land under the plough. I have beeu il1 the district. fifteen years. I I know the whole conntry. As to the land neal' the railway not being under cultivation bnt nuder grl\SS, I· think it was on account of the low prices. I do not t.hink I would give it up if I were alongside a rail­ way station. Perhaps people have a market for stock and find it can be conveyed by railway to a better market than their·immediate own. A farmer has to consider what will pay himself. I.have no statistics as to the yield per acre. I think the line should go from Glenorchy to Wallaloo, becanse Glenorchy is the most suitable place for !lS. I think the other proposed line was from Rupanyup to St. Arnaud; that would be useless for us, and if they got it I suppose there would be nO chance for us. Wal "Val wonld be a greater ronndabollt for ns than Glenorchy. "Ve wonld have to travel 2 miles further back for Wal Wal, and therefore it. wonld be that 2 extra miles freight to Melbourne. 155. To .klr. l'renwith.-Weare 11 miles from Glenorchy. I cannot say that in this immediate vicinity we are badly off for a railway, but in order to snpport this place and make it go ahrad we should have a line. I think t.he people a few miles ahead of 1I~ are badly in W'lIlt of it. I think the land round here is better tban that between here and Glenorchy, which is saudy and does not hold like the land here. , A. .J. dorrie, . '11th March, 1896. 8

T cannot say why tileY ]lave not cultivated it, though near a railway, except that it is of a sandy nature, ·and it is not considered so good for agriculture as this land in the northern parts, especially' for wheat· growing, which has been the main indnstry hitherto. 15/.!. To MI'. Bri-I'ton.-l do not know the ont.put of the local creamery. As to t.he grapes we sel1d ~o market we are at a disadvantage through 'not having 11 milway. Onr crop has been large and of goog. quality, and wherever it went it has brougb.t a good price, bnt owing to the railway being so far away we could not accept orders from different parts of the colony owing to have to cart 10 miles-if it were a small order it would not pay-in snpplying a few cases of grapes, running to Glenorchy, 10 m~les and back, would take ull the profit. This year we have not supplied anything at tilL ,Last year we were at a ad v!1ntage too, b!lt the year before that we sold upwards ot 1.50 cases. 'Ve selld them to. Ballarat; Geelong, B\llllah, Hop~toun, Rupanyup, ~ma Stawell-40 lbs. in each case. 'We took some of those to Stawell andsome to Glenorchy. The witness withdrew. Donald McAllister, sworn ,and examined. 157. To the Cltairman.-I am a farmer, residing about 3 miles north from here; I hold abollt 2,000 acres, part purchased and part leasehold, leased from the Crown. I put it to grazing and agricultnre. I have 100 acres prepare~ for seed this year; it is already plollglled. Last year I lmd 50 acres nnder crop. Before that, we used to cultivate extensively, 500 or GOO acres; we grew wheat principally. The highest. yield was about seven bags to the acre, and the lowest three. ,I might mention that this seven bags to the acre crop was the seventeenth off the land, off' and 011, not consecutively-that was about three or four years ago. We gave up cultivating because of the low prices. I do not recollect whether I had wheat in tbree year~ ago. The year I had seven to the aere I got 48. 10d. a bushel. The land was getting old, and I wanted to give it a spell to renew, so 1 left off cliltivating. I have been cultivating a small quantity since, 50 acr:es and so on.\'".hen we cultivated 500· acres l'!1y brothers were in partnership with me. Since then the land has been divided-mY,brother continues cnltivating still.· All my 2,000 acres is not adapted for cultivation. 1£ I had a railway witiJin 2'0l' 3.:miles, I wonld cultivate between 200 and 300 acres. I would go more extensively into hay growing. I am abont 15 miles away from a railway­ I go to Glenorchy-,:-Stawell,is our "ifljl,l'ket. We might send hay up country to ~allarat; il9meti!lles the prices are better up in the mallee district. I do not think 15 miles is too"far to cart to a railway, but it would be much better if it were closc at band-I would 'cultivate more land if thE:) railway were lIearer-":"I would grow more hay. 1£ the price of wheat came dowh to Is. Gd. or 2s. a bushel I would not cultivate; I d'o hot ,think it'pays at that price even wHh a railway, lJnless the railway freights were qu"qe low. I would rathet' continue grazi11g thal1 rUI1 Hle risK of a bad crop and a bad price.' I had haY this for sale. I cnt 3 tons .to the acre last year on abotit 30 acres. All the cnltivation lana I have pretty well as good as that, and will produce that amount in a favorable season. This last y~[l,r was very favorable to that crop-I did not irrigate it. 15~. To Mr, 1'renwith.-I have,about 1,200 acres freehold and about a' 1,000 leasehold. I lease it from the Crmvn at I s. an acre, and, that goes to the pnrchase-I am acquiring the freehold. , I had 600 acres under crop at oue 'time; that was not within the 2,000 acres I hold. :My brother is at :Marnoo, further north. 159. Po theI Ghairman.-I keep sheep and cattle on the. land. I cut between 35 and 40 bales of wool. 160. To Mr. Trenwith.-I selected 320 acres amI bought in my neighbours. That process is not going on generally round here. I might mention as to the timber from this locality that the Stawell mines are sending out to this district for the timber for their mines, which they consider to be the best timber going into Stawell for ,mining plll,poses. You will not tIi'ive through th;tt timber because it is more to the east; it i~ beautifully timbered ~ountry nearly from St. Al'l)!lU~ to ~t!1w\lli. There are timber reserves, but I do not' think ringing the timber depreciates its commercial value, because it is better dry for sleepers. There is not much difference in the handling, and it is better. for the work_that'timber is to the' east of the line. The eountry you are going to travel·through is much better than it is up to here; it is worse that you have gone through. Aftet· you pass th~ Dog Trap Creek it is much better_just hel'e it is abou~ the same-it improves as yon travel northwards:.' . 161. To Mr. Harl'is.-The principal timber is grey box. Towards the east there is ironbal'k, and in this immediate district there is a lot of good redgllln. I think if a railway were constructed there are enough sleepers along these creeks to construct the line. The timber further north is better than what you have come through. We consider that is valueless; there is a good qUllntity of that timber. The supply will last for many years; of course they would have to go further towards the east. In reference to any other line suiting us, of course we cannot say that we are too far at present from Glenol'chy, bnt still, if the whole district from here to St. Arnaud is taken into consideration, or to Wallaloo, 1 think this is the better line, because the other line to Rupanyup would be of no use to us. I have land in Marnoo and con. sider it will be no use, becanse rOllnd by Rupanyup is too far by rail. I think if the line is eOI),structed straight through to Glenorchy it will be better for all. 162. To the Ghairman.-If the line were made from Rupanynp to St. Arnaud, I do not think people 10 )lliles south of the line would go to that line on account of the longer distance ronnd, and St. Arnaud 18 not their market at all. We have been dealing continually with Stawell, and this country 10 miles up will continue that in preference to paying the extra freight round the other way. , 163. To llftr•. Harri.<.-The Stawell mines get a Jarge amollnt of their supply from this part. Mr. Kinsell says a stick a foot through from this district is equal to a foot and a half from the o-:rampians district. A great quantity goes to the Willlillera for firew'ood purposes. 164" To lJfr. Burton.-There is a great deal of timber in the State forest, because several con­ tractors have got their timber from tbere and taken it to Glenol·chy. It would not be more than about 8 or, 9 miles to cart to Glenorchy-it is due east from here; it is about the same as the distance from here to. Glenorehy. I cannot say the qunntity of sleepers that have been supplied from this district. ' I cannot say what number of timber cutters have been cutting sleeper.;; here for the mallee lines, but there have been a considerable number all the time the maHee lines were in eourse of constmction. The witneSB withdrew. 33

9

Malcolm McGregor, sworn and examined. 1Go. To the Chavnnan.-I am a farmer, residing 'It miles north from here, at Callawadda. I a~ about 12 miles from the Glenorchy railway station. I hold about 2,500 acres. I have about 1,600 acres m , addition; it is coloured green on the mflp. I hold it und!"!' the 67th section, by yearly licence. I cultivate between 400 and 500 acres-last year 430 ucres ; it was principally wheat, oats, hay, barley, and pease. I cannot say the most profitable crops we grow, but I think wheflt, oats, and hay are the main crops. I had about an equal proportion of those, 100 tons of hay, and the nverage return from the grain was about two bags to 'the acre.' It wa~ n. poor crop, through the lh·ought. There are about 100 tons of hay altogether this year, not more thnn 15 Cwt. to the acre. My la1](l is second to none in the 1Vimmera. I cannot say why my crop was so poor. I double ploughed and f'allowed all my land, and I think it spoilt the crop, through the dry season. The part I had pense in was not donble plonghed, and ,that was a splendid crop. By plough­ ing often in most soils the land retains the moisture, but this particular year it did not suit my land. My market for grain and hay is Stawell. Geelong is our wool market; last year I sent 55 bales-the average , bale is about 300 Ibs.-my last price for wheat was 4s. 6:)id. a bushel. I favour the Glenorchy line direct to St. Arnaud through Wallaloo.. I contend that the mill;ay right through will open direct communication hetween the two, and will be the means of increased railway traffic, and will give facilities to the farmers to send their produce to any market they think rlropcr, and it wonld up the country. If the country cannot afford to construct a line connecting the two plnce;;:, the end from Glenorchy to Wa,llaloo will undoubtedly be tbe most profitable-it is better l!\nd than that between WallBloo and St. Arnaud. The land there is held, I think, clliefiy in medium blocks of' 320 ncres by selectors, and it is inferior conntry. Thcre are plem.y of small holdcrs here. A rnilway to Wallnloo' I think would induce them to put more land under cnltivatioI], for everyone knows the fl),IT11ers of this colony went through a very trying time during the last fOllr years, and a great mnny of the la.rgc growers ceased to cultivate; but now, through the advnnce in prices, I beHeve that the farmers will increase their cultivation. A payable priee in this district would be from 2,;, 6Grampians for mining purposes. , 169. To Mr. 'l'renwith.. -I think a, railway from Glenorchy through here would be built very cheaply-I have gone into it to a certain ext,ent. There are ballast, sleepers, and all the requirements to build the railway adjacent to the Iille-there is no dista.nce to go for material. I have uot gOlle into all the calculations; bnt within'the Stawell shire alone I calculate t.hat 4,000 or 5,000 bales of wool wonld go down this line to Geelong. I do not Sf1Y cxtra traffic, bnt what is done by horse teams to the nearest point of the railway. . . 170. To 1111'. Harrl:s.-There· are about 10 tOilS of timber a day going down to Stawell from this part. I do not kno,,, anything about t.he prices. I cannot say what. is the value of my freehold land-you .cannot ten thfl value till it goes to auction. I gave £3 2,;. an acre for the last land I bought. If we had the railway asked for, I do not know that it would arld !1nytlling to the value of it-I suppose it would. It would add to the value by giving the accommo(lation required to get to the market. I think there would be a large'tmffic from' this district from fat stock; they would be sent to market. The farmers do not trouble about them now, becanse the distance is too far-they-would go to Ba.llarat or Stawell, :Malcolm McGregor, 11th March, 1896. -IO .

li l. 1'0 tll.e Chairman.--:-The Wallaloo people I refer to are 10 miles further on. 172. '1'0 1I1·r. Hm·ris.-The railway would ad'd something considerable to the value of the land, We · considered the matter of tbe guarantee amongst us when the Jast movement was made ahout a millVlty ; .we agl'eed that we should make some concession if the line were made. I wish to point out one matter of difference between the two lines; we people here have been agitating for a railway for the last twenty , years. We we! e promised a line from G lcnorchy by the latc l\fr. Woods, and then a direct line from Stawell by Mr. Gillies, and we have bCCll all these years waiting, and I hope you will give serious consideration and deal with ns Itocordillg to what we deserve-we llave stuck to the land throngh thick · and thin. If the line is, constructed from Maruoo to B.upanynp, I think the railway will be It white ,elephant. The witne88 withdl·ew. • Henry John Allsop, sworn and examineJ. 173. To the, Chai1·man.-I am a vignoron. I reside about a qnarter of a mile from here, jnst on the hill you passed. I holt1 abont 190 acres nltogether ; 50 acres are cultivated as vines and crop, the remainder · I graze. I l].ave made a vel'Y little wine this ),!'ar; it is my first year. The railway would be of very great benefit to me; I could supply small orders for fruit and grape~, a private trade, which is a p~ofitable trade, with a case at a time. Tile best liIle for mo would be f!"Om Glenorchy to Wallalooto St. Arnrmd-I should like the two markets, the one to Stawell also, but I prefer toe one to Glenorchy. I'cannot say what tonnage I wonld supply the milway: My vineyard will give 6,000 gallOlis when all I have planted now comes into bearing; we nre Plltting a cellar IIp now. I do not think you can beat this climate for vine~ ; it is almost a new industry in the district. There are ouly one or two besides myself-there is a great quantity of land in the district suitable for viticulture-my chief attention will be given to the vineyard. ,If it pays, I will put the whole area under vInes. I prefer the Glenorchy line to any other, and wouldlike it.to go all the way to St. Arnaud. It would give a better market than I have now, as I cannot run to Stawell with one case. I am not particular about the other market personally, but I think it would be a good thing for the line to run right through. I should be satisfied myself if the line ran from Glenorchy to Wallaloo. . The witnes8 withdl·ew. Robert Clark, sworn and examined. 174. To the Chairman.-I resido at Callawadda South, about 3 miles from here. I am a farmer and creamery manager. I hold 837 acres. I graze and cultivate; 50 acres is the most I have bad in yet. I have been cultivating for nine years. Producing milk has paid very well lately. I manage the creamery; it is a branch of the Stawell Dairying Cornp:tny; we do not make butter. We Bent away about 230 lbs. a day a little time back, but nolY only three cans a wcek, less than 3 cwt. ; half-a-ton a week. I cart to Glenorchy and send it to Stawell, and they make it into butter there. Sometimes we get 300 gallons a day from the neighbourillg farmers, but at present it is very dry, and there is not mucll grass. There was no spring raill, and therefore we did not grow any green feed for the summer. Every year I have always had a small patch of mangolds to feed my cows and pigs with; this year I have had llone. I sowed them just the same as' in other years, and even nse(l more manure. If we had a railway more convenient I would keep more cows and also cultivate more. I can manage .to get mannre cheap by rail, but.! oannot pay for the cartage. The land produces a better crop with manure. " '-'he witness withdrew.

(T~ken at Wallaloo.) Holford H. Wetteuhall, sworn and examined. 175. To tile Chairma'll.-I am a grazier and farmer. We hold the estate of Carr's Plains, 28,000 acres. We arc lessees. I own mysclf about 1,000 acres fee-simple in Wirchilleba. 'We cultivate abont 150 acres, sometimes 200 acreS. We grow wheat and oats, principally wheat; we have generally been successful. The avemge has been quite four bags. The price has unfortunately been, getting lower every year; it was down to Is. 9J. a bushel last year. Three years before that the average would be about 2s. 6d. We have diminished the area under crop the last year. 'We also had a lot under crop under thc share or tribute system, letting it. It paid yery well the first two years; it wonld pay at 2s. 6d. a bushel. At that it would be better thau grazing. If we were sure of 2s. 6d. we wonld put more under crop. We had about 2,500 acres ,under crop the year hefore last, and the year before that. About 1,450 tons was carted to St!\well by myself and the tenants; that was sold at Stawell; we do not know what becomes of it after that. If there was a rail way here every bag would go hy rail. I know a lot of t~e line from Glenorchy to here. A yery small portion of 0111' land would be 6 or 7 miles away from the rail. Anything within 10 miles I consider within a culti vatioll distance. There is only a small portion 10 miles from Gleuorchy of poor estate to this side oE Uallawadda South. The liue I think most suitable fOl' this district is the Glenorchy to Wallalotl ; it is the only line tbat will suit the great bulk of the people in this district. Wallaloo extends some miles back. If a line werc constrncled from B.upanyup by Banyena to Maruoo, and stopped there, MarIloo is ] 0 miles long. The line from Rupanyup, even t~king it there to the Maruoo State school, would not be taken atlvuntage of hy allY of the settlers south of hel'e-[slwwing on'the map]. Snpposing the distance between Wallaloo and Marnoo Were 8 miles, those who would be 4 miles south from Maruoo I believe woul(l cnrt, taking all things into cOIlsiJeratioll. They would have to go ronnd by Bauyenu. the distance coming from Marnoo to Banyena, to Rupanyup, and on to Lubeck into Stawell, would be 62 miles; the freight would be greater that .way than the other. I think 10 miles is sufficient for anyone to cart his load to the railway, ami go hack in It day. People cannot do 15 miles there and back in a reasonable day in this coullt.ry. Your horses cannot travel more than 3 miles an hour. The roads in winter bere are very bad; they could not do the carting in winter, so when the farmers shollld be fallowing or rel;tpillg they have to be carting the grain. They should be fallowing directly they get the crop off. Give them a milway and it will alter that. If you had come a mile further north than you did to-day you would ha!,e seen as you came along fourteen or fifteen huge stacks of straw rotting; that I3traw 'Would be wort4 a,pout £4,000 in l\f~lbourne. -- 35 H. H. Wettenhall, 11 11th March, .1800.

176. To die Han. D. Melville.-N one of these lines present any engineering difficulties. I should think there would be very little difference in the cost of either. Earthworks ure done very cheaply now. l should think the Glenorchy line could be made fOl' £1,500 a mile, rails lmel all. You have the timber and ballast on the line. I ouly go by what I have seen on other lines. 177. To !.l'lr. 1'renwitlt.-'Ve are not letting any on tl'ibute this year, the price was so low last year. It is under consideration whether we will go into it again. The carting was high; it killed the thing. I sold my last wheat !1t Is. 9d. We got 4 bushels to the acre; it would not pay at that price. If we had a railway here, at the prices the last two or three yeal's, I feel it wonhl pay, and I believe thousands of acres more would go into cr0p. Land is farmed very cbeaply here with the three and four f1lrrow plougbs that we have, antI we have a very steady population of young fellows growing up. They put the crop in and take it out themselves. There is no part of the world where farming is carriell on more cheaply. They have from 320 to 1,000 acres. The country you came through to-day is about one of the oldest-settled parts of Victoria; it was taken up in 1865 .. The houses are away off the track. You were within a mile or a mile and a half of the houses. 178. 'To Mr. Burton.-If a line were constructed from Rupanyu]J to Banyena and Marnoo, as submitted by Parliament, I think the connexion is with Stawell and Geelong, and I do IlOt believe they 'would cart 5 milcs to a railway to go all that way 1'01111(1-1 think they would still continue to cart to Stawell -they would be going 10 miles to a railway to send their stuff 1)0 miles. Say 25 miles from Stawell, north east of 'Vallaloo, between Wallaloo and Marnoo, I believe they would still cart to Sta well rather than take it to Marnoo--speaking fot' ourselves, we would. We dill Ollr ow 11 carting. It is 15 miles across to Glenorchy, and ),011 cannot make a trip there and back in a day-you can only do three trips a week to there, ami you can do that to Stawell. When I said the growth of wheat would be payable at 28. 6d. a bushel, I meant to the men as well as to the lessee. 179. To Mr. Trenwitlt.-I do nothing else for the lessee-the land is cleared-tllf'Y put up any buildings they require-they do not live on the land. 180. To Mr. Burton.-Persons north of me as far as Maruoo grew grain last ye~r-l do not know where they took it to. Some brought it to the north of me, to Glenorchy and Stawcll.

The witness withdrew.

Charles Reading, sworn and examined. 181. To the Chai'l"man.-I am a fimner. I resi(le at Wallaloo, close to where we are now. I hold 320 acres myself, and hold other land in partnership with my brothers, about 3,500 acres altogether; there nre four in partnership. We cnltivate nnd graze the land-we work on the rotation system, lind cultivate from 700 to 800 acres annnally. We are now clearing more land, as the price of gl'ain has gone up. Under 3s. to 38. 6tl. a bushel would not pay us; 28. 6d. woula not. On virgin land a man can make 28. 6J. a bushel pay, but to keep up the systcm of tillage it will not pay, even though yon follow the rotatory system-people will hnve to manure the land, and there is other expense connccted with it. Grazing sheep on the land does not manure it sufficiently; I cannot tell why, bnt I know it from actual experience; it assists it, but I would not continue it. The area of Wallllloo is 7 by 5! miles. The present popUlation is about 200; at the bnsy time of the year, shcaring amI harvest time, it is about 300. The annual assessment is something like £3,000, al1d the shire valuation is from £-10 to £42 per section per annum. We favour the line from Glenorchy to Wallaloo. The fhst reason is that we do our business with, Stawell, and that gives the command of four markets-Stawell, Ballarat, Geelong, and Melbourne-[pointing to tlte mapJ. We are 26 miles from Stawell, 23 from Lubeck, 24 from Cope Cope, 24 from Rupanyup, and 27 01' 28 from St. Arnaud-why not take the wheat to tile UElarest railway station? If we carted to Rnpanyup we would have to pay 8d. n bag back to Stawell-4~d. from Rupanyup. In loading our waggons, instead of carting the 23 miles, wben a tenm has to be loaded it would bc better to ta.ke it the extra 3 miles and save that expense. We cannot eart in the winter time, except very light loads. Some of my ncighbours were carting in the winter months last year, and one man had six horses on a 2-ton and 2!-ton loa(l to reach thc market-yon see the roads now ill their very best state. 182. Supposing that the railwuy is cOllstructed from Rupanyup to Banyena, would the people at Marnoo cart their stnt}' to Banyena or to GI~I,lorchy ?~It is probable Ihey would send' the stuff to St,Hvell by team or to Cope Cope; they cltn cart it for almost the same and land it at t,he mill. The average price for carting is Is. a bag. I know the engineer stated the line will Bot pay, but if a line is built to WalJaloo, 19 or 20 miles, or t,o Marnoo, it ShOllhl serve all the conntry between, embracing 400 square miles. .Fifty tons would not bc a large cstimate of the produce of a fnrm of 640 acres. Against that wouhl be the live­ stock traffic, and the traffic to and fro. If yon estimate that, it gi ves about 20,000 tOilS at 3s. a ton, and more farming would bc carried en. Take the straw on thl'ee adjoiuing farms, 1 hcre are 300 tons of stmw; that is double the uverage I have stated-that includes straw. Two thousand hags were grown on theso three farms adjoining this hall-if tlwt amount were sent by rail, the line would pay. It would create more traffic. and the natiollal !'Lsset would be greater. I know from the present railway reports the employes have plenty of time to cart more. There arc 10,000 or 20,000 tons here, and if carried to the main line it would mean an additional lOs. a tOil, or l,OOO tons, £500, so the main trunk line would benefit also. If the land were pnt under cultivation thcre are one or two largc est!1tes, but thc majority of it is held in smnll holdings, nnd if a man has to live, he mnst grow what 1 hnve stated. The teams are on the road now, a.nd if' we had a railway they would be in the p:tddocks. Tllere are hundreds of 1011.t1s to go from this 'di,;­ triot still. If yon look all round you will see nreal'l of'lanel being cleared, anll the timber you can judge of better as yon go further north. I thiuk wheat will ptl.y Ii'om a,. to 36. 6d. 0, bushel, 'llld 2~. 6J, ill virgin country, but not to continue. I think wheat will remain at 3"., because the population is increasing an over the world. A cry was raised that 'wheat wonld never go Il? again-our duty will assist 118 in keeping ~p the prices, but wheat is 4s. 8eL aud 4s. 9(1. II bushel in Sydney, where there is no dnty. The land cannot maintain its fertility with CDnstant cropping, so thero will alway" be a decrease of the amonnt, amI that will need bringing up.

The Mfm.t.8& withdrew. 12

Solomon Andrew~, sworn and examined. 183. To the Chai?'rnan.-I am a farmer and grazier. I resiqe at Wallaloo, 2t miles frn,ther to the east from this spot, I own 350 acres, and am Icasing 3~0. I graze and cultivate 200 acres per annulIl, working 300 acres in rotat:ion and fallowing 100. I grow whe[1l;, oats, and hay-the yield on the average was nearly three bags this last year, At present IYC get 48. 6tl. fOl' oats, 2s. 8d. landed in Stawell-last year we got about lId., and Is. 8d. for w bent. The millimmu that would pay would be about 3s., that is; continuing farming on the same land. On ·the land yon can grow it at a less figure-you get m[lCh more on tlle first crop, and there is not much more in· putting it ill. I am about 23 0]' 24 milf;li'l from Glenorchy. I semi to Stawell ; it is only a of 4 01' 5 mile:;;, ;tnd it is much cheaper. The nearesidistance is about 23 miles to Rnpanyup. Supposing a railw:ty wer(;) t~ come half that distancQ from GJenorchy to ';Y allaloo, it wonld not be cheaper to scnd by i to Stawell, becau"e half that distance would decrease the cost of carting by waggons by half. .If you constructed a milway 10 miles from GlcJ:).­ orchy that would bring me within 13 or 14 miles; it·would snve me 13 or 1'4 mile,! cartage to Stawell, aI!d that would pay me; I send 25 miles now. I pay 5 miles extra cartage by waggon and save the railway freight by Glenorchy. As a matter off:1Ct., I let my carting some three years ;tgo. At present it is about a similar priCE! to cart from here to Glenorchy and land it nt Stawell as to cart it direct to Stawell. 'rhe advantage of send~ng it direct is that it saves one handling. I could get it cartce! PY WlI.ggolls three years ago itt 4d. less to Glen7 OI'chy thnu I did to 8tnwell, and ii cost just 4d. to land it in Stawell, bnt there was the saving of the extra hfLlHlling, and that makes all the diJIerence., Ifwchad a railw!ty nearer than now we would cnltivatemorl? of the land, because wc 'would save the amount on the carting. to the rotation systen1, I culti­ yate 200 acres. Ifwe lind It railwfLy nearer we would culti,ate more every yetu. 'Vewould give up, the grazing, because cultivation would pay better; I do not mean at Is. 8d., the same as last year. 'Ve do not toncll Imtter, hecanse we are too fnl' from market.. ,We keep mostly for :\Yool, and sell thl? ~urplus. 'Ve are 27 miles from IHll,rket, and that forces ns to grow the produce that is easily carted_we cannot choos~. for instance, tllis last year I had 200 aores nndor crop, with goocl prospects 9J a good price in hay: That 200 acres would have paid me f[l,r better, if I hnd bQennertr a railway, to cut for hay. Thu,t area of 209 acres would have yiEllded 200 tons, bnt it ,vas impossible, having to cart it 25 miles, so I was forced to take it off as grain, which dit! not pay as well as if ~ ,had .taken it off as hay. Hay at £2 a ton would pay as well itS wheat at 28. a bushel; at that price hity\yoliid pay well. 'Va call always avemge not less than 1 ton all acre, and we can make £2 an acre pay, I cannot get hay carted to Stawell; it is worth from 178. 6d. to £1 a ton to c'art it. The charge for carting a ton of grain was] s. a ba,g-eight or nine bags to the ton. With hay, it is the bulk-yon can 1)11t on only 3 tons of hay. 184. To llh. T1'emoitk.-That is ~:? !J. ton hLnded at Sta well, We call al'eUBonable distance a trip ,a day. Last year hay was from 378. 6t!. to £2 ;t ton in Stawell-that ~s a very low :figqr~, the l'piniml!ID price. This year I have been offered £3 2s. 6d. a ton for the same hay. 185. To jJfr. Burton.-l am cultivating 670 acres, with 300 acres out of it, leaving aQout 400 acres for sheep rJlIl. If J had a railway .close I \Yould clear a gl'e:tter arell: ami put it under cl]ltivation, not· altogether, unless grain rose above 2s ..01' Is. 8d., hilt I conld make it, pay with hay. NearlY,all onr cropi'! grow n. fltir straw when there is only a fair yield. That means hnndreds of toqs of produce gone to wast(l -we have to'burn it in the paddocks. Straw is worth in Melbonrne just now £3 ~s. 6d. a ton, cut np. I am ~4 miles from 81. Arnaud-thc road is about the same as to Stawel!. We have always had a Stawell conne~iol1,and have always kept to it. 'fhere is always a better price ~t Stawell-I do not know why.

The wit'll;CS8 withdrew.

John. Davies, sworn anel examined.

186. To tILe Chai?'mlJln.-I am it faqner, at. Warngar, about 4 miles east from, here. I hQld 3~O acre~. I cuHi vat,e and graze on it. I cnltjvale 1-10 acres; t,hat is thc IIlo;,t I have put in. I grow wheat rnainly-I h}tve had some oats this year. ]~ast year I averaged 6 bushels of wheat, to the acre-I have had 20; that wns fQlIrteell year/; ago. I had 6 bl1shels to the acre this would not nay at 28. 6d., I would give up farming at that price. I :Wl midway between Arnand and St!l-well. Stnw~ll is my market t,Qwn and busjness place, conseqnently I go (,here. Stawell hithert,{J has been th i3 be~t mnrkct by a big lump of porl~. 11Vi8h I Im'\ an opportunity of going wit\1in 10 miles of a railway so that I could go l'md come in a day-that would satisfy me. 'Vhen my tCRm leaves ill th~ moming, it takes two days to come back fl'o!I1 Stawell. I am abont haH-way bet,yeen Glenorchy and St. Arnaud. I wbuld mther ha "e It line going from Glenorchy, I do not send any stnff to the seabollrd ; in fact, Stnwell is thQ market towp for the generality in this neighbourhood, Walialoo and W arngar West. The .. nlnc of land h.;)rE) varies; three orfour years ago I could Imve sold my lanel for £3 lOs. an acre, I]OW I conlel Dot get per4aps £2 lOs. Blocks innumerable have been 'put IIp within the last twelve months, and no offer made. A r~il\Vay as far as Wallaloo down from ·Glenorchy w

-- 37

is (Taken at Rupanyup.)

James Edward Pickett, sworn and examined. , 187. To the Chairman.-I am a civil engineer and surveyor. I am shire engineer and vaIner for the shire of Dnnmnulde, and inspector under various Acts, and collector of agricultura.l statistics-I reside at Rupanyup. The principal point on which I have been asked to give evidence IS the method ~e have adopted in this shire in forminO' roads by means of the road machine, and which will greatly cheapen the cost of formations. I see by"'the papers that the Gov\lrnment propose to form this railway on the bnttygang system, the whole of the materials to be removed by manllallabonr, the cost of which will be 6d. to 8d. a yard. I consider, if the road machine is utilized, this cost cnn be r.cduced to about 1d. or 2d. a· yard. I can show you that it can be done for about 1d. a yard, but putting it at the outside margin of 2<1., the saving will be very great. The road machine has been used by us for abo)1t two years, !J,nd by its means the cost of road formation has been reduced one-third. Formations which cost 18s. 9r £1 can now be done for 7s.-a formation 24 feet wide and solid, a 12-ft. channel on each side, and a 2-ft. crown, a total widl,h over the whole formation of 48 feet, and that we can make for lOs. a chain. This reprcsents 58~ cubic yards per chain. An ordinary railway bank is about 12 feet wide, and, say, \in average depth of 2 feet. As the material therefore has to be moved only 6 feet on ench siele, this represents 68~ cubic yards per chain, which at 6d. by buttygang is 34s. a chain, as against 5s. a chain, :which I think it could be done for by the machine.' The cost of cach machine is about £80, and one of thosc with a plough can at the very least do about 10 chains· a day of this formation, at a cost of £2 2s.-£16 168. per mile, or about eight-tenths of a penny per cubic yard. The shire is not in a position to form roads at present, and in any case we merely make those formations. ",Ve cannot afford to metal them on account of the cost of the metal. The metal we use here has to be brought from Stawcll, and costs abont7s. a yard. These format.ions, although they are the beat we can make, are comparatively useless in winter time from the want of metalling. The road machine is at work closo ~o the township, and, if the Committee like, I cau show it to-morrow morning at work. Our road formations are compRrativcly useless when they are wet .for the heavy traffic, but they wonld be solid E;lnough to hold sleepers. We Imve it proved here in the case of this Rupanyn]) line. It is the wheels that cut them up. The bank is solid enough as a mass; it is mcrely that it will not stand the heavy traffic. I have no information as to the details of the construction of these lines, and therefore I cannot speak as to the whole estimates; it is merely as to the earthwork. I would say though, that I shonld think that only carth ramps would be wanted at the stopping places, and that station buildings are not, required on the line. The fencing,. I am told, is pnt down.in the departmental estimate at £80 a mile. A good fence can be put up, and is being put up in the district, at £32 a mile. As an engineer, I would pass that as substantial,. quite :mfficient for guarding stock, ,a seven-wire and barb with 9 feet distance between the posts. I think the conncil would not object t.o the line being built on the 2 or 3 chain roads, because the whole width of those roads is neyel' used by us; and a great sa ving would be made in that way. The cattle-pits are most satisfactory, and ill no ease has there been an accident since they were put up, and they quite obviate the nece3~ity for gates. As to vaJuations, I am also valuer for the shire; almost the whole shire, and certainly all that part that is tapped by this railway, is agricultural land of a very rich character-the crops usually average above 10 busheJs an acre. The settlement is of a thoroughly permanent character, and the land is steadily increasing' in value. The valnations in this shire have not becu reduced, that is the agricuiturnJ land. The average valuc of land in this shire is from £3 to £10 an 'acre, that is, excepting a small portion in the parish of Marma, which is not affected by this line. Close to the township there have been sales from £3 to £10 an acre in small blocks of 10 acres or so; that is, near this township and Murtoa-I speak generally of the shire. I say land has been sold here at that price and more-it merely shows what the yalue of land is. The price of agricultnral land is .. frorn £3 to £4 an acre. There are very few large holdings, ami where those do exist they are owued and worked by large families, and probably many of them, or some of them, will be subdivided amongst the different members of the family. The agricultural statistics, which I also collect, are not published yet for t,his year, therefore I am Dot at liberty to give any information about them; but I think I shonld say thut they are very satisfactory 80 far as the shire is con­ cerneci, and also that the large amonnt of fallow grollnd whieh is ready for putting in shows that the area of crop will not be reduced next year, bnt probably increased. I canIlot speak of the land 10 miles beyonu the terminus on the RnpanYllp to Maruoo liue; my boundary is at the Richardson River at Marnoo, but between here and MarllOo is about the richest .portion of the whole shire. That applies to the land from' here to 10 miles out-Marnoo is 14 miles. The richest land is the LaBat Plains, which arc well up to 10 miles from here, so that 5 miles of that would .feed thi" railway, and, therefore. 5 miles of that is some pf the richest laud in the shire and yields the heaviest crops. Therc is also a large stretch of. count,ry to .to the north, the Rich 4.von W~st beginning from about 3 or 4 miles north from the line and extending right up to our boundary; that is all rich land, that is, extending 7 miles from that point; that·is 11 miles from the railway. The land on the sonth of the line to a distance of 10 miles also is all rich land, and land that can be well cropped, and will yield good results.; in fact, t.here is not a\1 acre that could not be cropped anywhere aloJlg there. As an engineer, and one taking an interest in the whole distriet, I thiuk :those who are within 5 or 6 miles of a railway are fairly well served. I think it is desirable that the farmers should- Dot have to cart their prodllce, if possible, mQrc than [; .01' 6 miles-it adds greatly to the ,cost of production to them.. , Taking. 5 or 6 miles from Rupanynp, and going for 25 miles on this line and taking 5 or 6 miles on eith~r side, I cannot say how many ncres are under cultivation; but, generally speaking, I should say about one-third of the area is cropped eaeh year-I cannot speak of land beyond the Richardson River-I ouly speak within onr OWIl shire. The farms generally up to our boundary, 5 01' 6 miles out from Rupanyup, are abollt, 640 acres, that:is thc average size on the whole line-there are some abovc it. There are not some 6,000 or 7,000, excepting the Maruoo station itself, Mr. Skene's. On this side of the ri vel' he has about 2,000 acres. Between his property and Rnpanyup, MI'. Mnnt has about 1,100 acres, and Mr. Weidemann has about 1,<100 aeres'-tiIese are the largest landowners. There is one other, who between them hold more than 1,000 acres, bnt they are three brothers, and each of them has a block of his own, and they are all working together. There are about fifteen farms under 640 acres in J, E, Pickett, llth March, 1896 14

tha'l:"district-they would average about 320 acres; Oll each of those 320 blocks only the furmer himself is employed; one man can work it. Of course, he may have one .. 01" two SOllS and they work on the farm, though they may not be absolutely required. I could prepare a list and speak with aUlhority, bllt it is hard to give evidence on that from memory. I will prepare a list and forward it, showing the aetnal size of the holdings 10 miles on each side of the line. The tendeney is to increase the size of the farms; but, as a 1)latter of faet, they are not being incl'Cased much. I know of only one man on this line who has increased his holding lately, amI, on the other·hanu, some of those large estates are being eropped. The land is being let out OIl ~he thirds system; and sometimes those men eventually purchase it. That is the case with Mr. Skene's land; he is the largest owner on that line, and, a great deal of his land has been sold to men in that ,yay ; I eannot say the price, it was sold before my time; but I believe it was about £3 an acre. To my knowledge, MI'. Skene bad last year about ten cropper~ on his laud at work, and I am told that some of those men have since purchased after t.hey were cropping-that is on the other side of the l'iver. '1'he1'e is also the fact that those larger estates are often held by sen.ral sons. If' each SOIl had his own property it would be less than 640 Ii.eres. I know of one family where there are three sons, and they are just now portioning out their land amI settling '011 the different port.ions of it. 'I know of only one man on this line 'who has inereased his holding lately by buying out someone else,; Wheat is the erop generally grown, but also oats. I am told that some of Mr. Skene's laud was sold for £3 128. 6d. an acre. I cannot tell you from my own knowledge whether the land can be cropped for years' without ill j nry 'to it, but I have been told that it will bear cropping for n: number of years, and fl'om my own knowledge I should j,hink so, because the subsoil is very rich, and at a depth of a few feet there is a limestone and an ironstone formation, and this occasionalJy comes close to the surface and makes it very rich. I am not a practical farmer, but I was brought up on a sheep station and had an insight into farming, but as an engineor and surveyor I have always moved abont ill t,he country amoligst farmers and' run holders', find therefore I have had an opportunity of gett;iug information. 1\1y opillion is that the laud will last for Ii long time. In the past, some time ago" the method was to merely scratch the soil and put , the crop in, but it has been found now that it pays better to plongh it thorollghly. I would not be su'r­ prised if YOll s~w some land worked only 3 inches; they find the land bears It good crop at that (lepth 'and they put it only that depth. Yon can crop severnl crops off the surface, and after the snrface is exhansted yon go lower and throw up the subsoil. The general method is to crop amI fallow it •. he next year; crop it alternate years. They fallow it because the rainfall comes at SUell seasons that fallowing must be done at eertain seasons; it is simply a matter of couvenience in cultivation. I think they pay labourers here on a farm from about 15s. to £1, but I am lIOt sure of that; that inclndes their keep. Fifteen shillings is the ordinary rate and £1 in harvest time, bnt I am no authority on the matter. Hl8. To JJ[rr. T1·enwitlt.-There is a proposal to bring a lille from Glenorchy. I think a line from Rupanyup would be better than that line, speaking as an eugineer. SpeaJdng with my kn~wledge of. tho distl'i<:t I think, undoubtedly, the line from Rupanyup is the hest, beeause there is a large amount of land in the south, and to the south or our sliire, which is not thickly populated, and to the east of it the land is more thiekly poplliated ; the llOldings are much smaller. I can only speak as far as the bOlllld:try of our shire. The land between here and Banyena is thickly populated, and the land on' the other routes is not thickly populated. TIle people at B.myena will be about l:l miles from the terminlls of the lille from' Glellorchy to M!tfllOO, and if the line were made to there on to Glenurehy they wonld be llOal'el' to Stawell, but vou forget about the people lyiug to the north of Banyena aud Laen. The whole of fhe tmffie froni ther~ would go by this proposed liue if it went to BallYena; If made to Banyeua they would be about 8 or 10 miles off. I think good work could be dOlle by!. mil way there. Ibn. To tlte Chairman.-I know the district from Minyip to Cope Cope to the boundary of our shire, not beyond; that is to say, the Richardson River. I know the eountry well to Miuyip; it is good count.ry. The distance between those two stat.ions is I.bout 4 or 5 miles in a straight line. In level cOllntry like that the line eould be made in a straight line, if that is allY ad valltage. If people were in the very centre they wonld be only 12 miles from a statiou. The whole of the country from the centre between Cope Cope and Minyip :::loath to Banyella could be served by a milway to Banyena. ] 90. To lJrIr, 1'rellwftlt.-There is about one-third of the agl'icult.lIral)and in my uistriet now under crop. Providing for a rot.ation system of crops, I tllink half conld be fairly cllitivateu. 191. '1'0 the Ghai1'1noll, -I see the route from Hupanynp to Banyena and to Marnoo. I think the line should continue either to Cope Cope or St. Arnaud. It is not much round about from Rllpan;vup to Blluyenil. and to St. Arnaud throl1glI this country here, or a line taken t.hrough between the two. Walla~ 100 would be no distance from that line, not more than 5 or 6 miles. I think the people at Wallaloo would go north 6 miles and go to Banyella, nnd west to Hupanyup, or go to ~t. Arnaud; they wonld undoubtedly go 'to one ot' the other. The line t.hrough here would ~pell up a large tract of very rich country: I am not acquainted wiill the district between Glenoreby and Wallaloo. ] 92. 1'0 lrIr. Burton.-I have been for Wllle time working the road-making machine. I have made about 20 miles under my own direetion, partly by contract and partly by day labour •. We paid £2 a day for day labour for whatever work they happened to be doing; sometimes we top up old formations and it is hard to fix a price. Other times we llli1ke roads alongside water channels, where we took the stuff from only OLle side. £2 pays for six horses and two men and a plough, and we provide the machine; the con;' tractor pays for any breakages. In day labour we are responsible, for the machine. The cost eomes to l~bout the same by contract as by day labonl'. I am of opinion that the formation I speak of would he' sllbstantial enough for a railway formation., Wal Wal is the only place I know of fOI' ballast for this proposed line. We do not use lhe gravel from there for top-dressing.Wconly nse loam in the district: :For township streets we use blue metal, and also screenings for the footpaths. The name of the machine is Carolin's Ameriean Champion Road-making Machine.

The witness withdreio.

Adjourned. (

--- 39

15

(Taken at Mfl1'lton.) THU HSDA Y, 12TH JTAHCH,,1i:lD6.

I1femDr:1'S p,'csent I

MR. CA~mlw:x, in tile Chair;

The Han. D. Melville, ~LL.C. Mr. Burton, Mr. Hnrri~, Mr. Tn·Jnvith. Charles Newell, sworn and examined. 193. To the Chail'man.-I am a farmer. I re~iJe in Marnoo. I have beell here 26 years. I selected in 1869. I hold 1,400 acres-it is all purchase,l land. I hfLve 50D acres umler eultivut;ioll. That is the most I have ever had in one year. I grow whoM, Oltt~, harley, allli hay-priucipally wheat. "Ve nveraged in the five years nearly three bags to the acre. I have had ~ix bags, and have had one awl a half to the acre. My nearest statiol! is RnpanYllp. I have pai.l 8tl. a bag to eurt there, nnd 6d. latterly. Stawell has always been our market. By rail from l-tupanyup to Stilwell {'osl,s another 6d. a hag. I l!ave the usual quantity in fallow this year, which 1 prop(;se to erop. 1 will have 500 acres in. The price we get has varied very greatly. Leaving tbis year ont, the IIverage for three years previously would not exceed 3s. a bushel. Last year it was Is. 5<1. and Is. 9u. Wheat began to rise in October last year, and we got Is. 9d. a bush~l at Stawell, aftel' puying six months' stomge-it will pay thi~ year at 28. 6d,-the 1 s. 9d. did not pay, it left a loss. "Ve never know whell the priec will ri:w, Park Lane i~ the market of the world, ami that is governed by the ,Argentine Hepllblie alld, America; if they have poor crops there it raises the price here. If I had not expected a riEe in wlleat 1 wOHld have pitt in the sume amonnt in hopes of some rise. As the price this year is between 48. !Ind ;5s, we did not make all' effort to put a lu.rger quantity in because I do not anticipate lllQl'e than 2,,; Gu. 1'01' wheat next yenr. If you exceed the limit of local. consiImption,Park Lane is then the harometer. The wheat growing hlts decline!l a little Ihis year, and I have no reason to believe it will increaso tlllle,s I here i" some better means of getting the wheat to market. We will accept a railway from any point, where the COlllmittce thinb hest,-we are midway between Rupal1yup and St. Arnaud. IE there aro only 20 mile.;; to be made, om position \Vonld be this: the freight from Maruoo to Melbourne, via St. Al'llanJ, wOllld uo 158. 6d. a tOt}; via G!enorchy to, Melbourne, 17s. 3d. ; via Rupanyup, 17F. Gd. There \vonla ue n saving of Is. 9,\. a ton'vid Sf. Arnaud. ]f there were 20 miles of line from Gleuorehy tit, Wallaloo it wonld cost abont ) 7H. 3d. n tOll to Melbourne. I have no preference as to either of the three lines-take the line wherever yon liko lind we will aecept H. 194. '1'0 Jlfr. TrenwitA.-Ifthere is only an instalm311t, tho extea~iOll from ~t. Anmud would be the best-it would save us Is. 9d. a ton. That is ,the only feding I have ill the mat.tel' at all. GlcrlOrchy is the next shortest. 195. To the Chait·man.-If I were within 8 01' 10 miles of a railway I wOllld b(} \'ery satisfied. Before the railway went to Rupanyup we elUted over ;)0 miles tJ St,),well for twenly years. The price of laud in this neighbourhood is abont £3 an aere-the shire valuation is nbout, £2 10d.; the mte is Is. in the £ 1. vVe pay ltbout £2 rates on a selection of 320 aci·es. We cannot on that rate provide good roads­ they are getting better every year. Our local municipality does very well, nnd spends the money judiciously-we are in the StawelJ shire. The Stawell machine made :111 these roalls; we get the formation done for about £20 a mile, the shire council fillliing the mficllilw. The shire council work it themselves, and it costs 58. a chain, £20 a mile, less the weal' and tear of the machine. As to the cost of the railway, I am not an engineer. I think that finy of tllO"e formations at Wallaloo are qnite capable of carrying any amount of stuff, Seeing t hc tholls

the wool to Geelong and Melboui·ne. If it were sent via St. AI'naud for shipment, it would be 5 miles longer than if it were sent direct to Ge~long .. ,Geelong is 169 miles from here by St. Arnaud. It would cost'more to seud the wool rotwd by St. Arnftud than if sent by Glenorchy ; there would be the 6 miles. The difference in prices that I give to the different places is obtainetl from the tables of the Railway Departmel)t. Mr. Rennick states that the difference in distance between going by Glenorchy and St. Arnand is 2 milcs; that is not what I refer to as making the difference. From Wallaloo to Melbourne by Glenorchy is 181 miles, and by St,. Arnaud 183, but We take tbe Bacchus Marsh line for it, not the Geelong route. There is no wheat. Our wool goes by the Bacchus Marsli route. 199. If that is your only consideration, what objection have you if the line were made rig)lt throngh to Avoca, which would be very much ~horter ?-We would be only too happy to accept it, and the whole district would get cheaper carriage still by that, but we are in the dark as to the possibilities of this Committee. I ;would recommend R through line to Avoca, bnt not on account of myself. 'The difference of cost comes in, and this Committee should be able to rec01nniend a line running across this country where they migh t not see their way to recommend the line {tom Avoca on acconnt of the extl'a cost of construc­ tion. As to the proportion of hay and other local produce we can find a ,ready market for in our surrounding towns, I do not think a ton of huy has gone to StaweU and St. Arnaud since we have been here; The chaff would go direct to Melbourne. I 'do not think we would sell any hay at St. Arnand. If there were it railwav to Stawellllnd thev wanted hav, we would send it"to them. 200. About taking your w~ol toJGeelong, wl;yc do you always sOl;d you~ grain to Stawell for sale instead of taking it to St. Arnaud ?-Because we have made nBe of Stawell as our loeal market. ,you may get a better priee, but you pay storage at Stawell, 11.ml yon get storago free at St. Arn!tud. A f!lrmer has a right to know in whose haml he places his crop, and if we have confidenee in Stawell, or, perhaps, greater confidence in Stawell than other towns, we have the right to carry out our views. There is very little difference in the price of the market for grain as between Stawell and St., Arnaud. Sometimes, it fluctuates a penny and even 2d. If you take six weeks ago, the wheat was 2d., more or less, either at St. Arnaud or at Stawell, but it'goes 1Jice versd-:-the prices are fairly' equal at those two points. There is n large population to the south of this engaged in farming. Tile line, if made to' here, could be made to serve those people to the south and be made use of by them. Tlte' proposed railway thl'Ough Banyena to Marnoo would not snit them. 201. To j}[r. Hqt·ris.-The traffic inspect.or puts the quantit.y of grain from Banyena and l~fttrnoo at 4,191 tons. I have some statistics here which have been collected from honse'to honse, find I find, that even in this worst season, which hati beon one of the worst in ,25 years, and wh1ch forms no comparison, it amounts to 3,400 tons. There were 27,344 bllgS of wheat last year. The acreage nnder cultivation last year was 24,470 acres. The number of bags of oats was 5,25S, and there were 2,368 tons of hay. There are now under fallow 11,256 acres, and the vroposed estinl!tte of crop for next· year is 22,722 acres. These figures show only 11 ~ miles of the Goverilment proposal:. There are 110 statistics in these figure5 \vithin seven miles of St. Arnaud, not a bag. ~ either does it include anything for a mile and a half from Marnoo. The total ~creage held under farms is 163,324 acres of agricult,.\lrnl laud. We have 1345 working horses on that land, 1,630 cattle, and' 94,271 sheep. If you will permit me, I wonld like to refer to the stock question, arid this country is one 011 which we can fatten stock. For a number of years there have been thousands of head of fat sheep driven to Ballarat mlll'ket, ratber than being trncked. The reason of -that. is that often when our sheep are at the primest in the spdug of the year, pur roads arc 80 and tile river so flooded ,that it is impossible to get them to any railway station, and to take them' to any railway . station knocks Is. a head off them, and it pays better to drive them to Ballamt mu,rket-t,he stock suffer less that way !.tum by trucking. The road to Ballarat is better than the road to the railway station. They suffer more in the 20 miles to the mil way than to the other place. It is not bet~er to do it., but at the season of the year-September, October, November, and December-when the stock are in primest, condition, the roatls are in a very bad condition, and they are very good' to the sout.h. I have trucked: hundreds from Rupanyup and Glenorchy. I faeed the Glenorchy road when I could 110t face the Hupanynp' road 'with fat stock" and neither road suits our pnl'pose-they reduce it in value I s. a head. 202. To the Chairman.-We go by Avoca to Ballarat'in taking those cattle. 203, To Mr. Burton.-'-These figures include 8 miles to the north of the proposed line and 9 miles to the south of the line submitted to, the Committee. That takes the whole of Wallfiloo, none of Callawadda, a littJe of Warngar, and jj, includes Wircbillebfi. 204. '1'o.Mr. Harris.-Tbe average rainfall in this district is about 18 inches. The reason of the few crops being put in has been. the low prices; that is the llllly reason. It has paid ns better to let OUI' ploughs lie idle 'when wheat is Is. 9d. or 2s. 2<1. a bushel in Melbourne. Oats and barley grow very well here; oats are eultivated, but not barley. This last year the oats tHe very poor. Nearly every f!Lrmer h:ts from 50 to 100 a.eres under OlltS. The Algerian oats do best; they are llniversally grown here. We usually sell those in Stawell, for the reasons I have indicated. As to the land cuitivatetl between here and Rupanyup, the statistics were for the lowest 160 acres, and t,he higgest 1,600 acres-tho average is 600 Ot· 700 acres, that is leaving out Mr. Skene's estate. There are not many under 600 acres,abont 20 or 25. As to these figures, yon see here that those 27,344 bags of wheat are no eriterion of the yieltls of tltis country. 1 have lakoll the average for five years, and take it to be three times that amonnt; the tonnage on tliat amount is £3,400, but I estimate the average touna.ge as £8,000 for wheat aloue. 'l'hIs year has been a very bud one,l1ud it is no criterioll. People within 10 miles, of a rail wily are fttirly well served. There is nothillg in Illy figures that interferes with allY existing line. J'he witnes ..; 1vithdrew.

Gordon l.1'aconachie, sworn and examined. 205. To the, Cltairrnan.-I tl,m {t'farmer. I reside 4 miles west from here. Myself aud boys hold n; little over 4;000 acres-we work the 4;000 acres together. We eultivate from 400 to 600 acres, growing principally wheat, and a little oats. Ilmve had as ltigh as 40 bushels to the acre, and as low as 4. The last 'season was about the worst-it :was too dry. The yem: before I had 12 busbels to thc acre. I got h. lOd.a bushel-4bllshcls would not pay at'any price, not e\'en at 5s. It is only'£l an acre, and you have the seed and'the work, :md the distance from the railway...,..:12 bushels, at.)s. 10d., would not imyeither. , ---- 11

Rupanyup is the neatest station I can get to at present. I send it all there at present, but it is too fat. It is almost a day and a half's work, 15 miles. It is too much for the horses to do in it day~still, we do it. The horses get leg-weary, they get baked up, aud cannot do the ploughing as they ought to do, if you continue a month or six weeks cartitla 30 miles a day. Ten miles from it railwav would suit me, a con­ venient day's journey, abont a day's ;orli with a railway from Rnpanynp by Banjena to Maruoo-I join on the parish of Maruoo. A rIlilway there would cost me a considemble deal more sending the produce round and bring it back-it is not fOI' me to say which I prefer.. The line which would suit me best would be the one from Glenorchy to Marnoo, or from St. Arnaud to Marnoo, but not as well as Glenorchy. I have been identified with Stawell the last 40 years. By St. Arnaud wonld be the nearest road for the sea­ board. If a line were constructed from Glenorchy by Wallaloo to Marnoo I might be about 3 miles from it here. We' are situated in the centre, 22 miles fl'om Cope Cope, 24 from St. Arnaud, and 24 to Glenorehy, and about 16 miles from Rupanynp. That is the situation we are in ; this is the direet centre between all those points, and the nearest point we can reach any of those lines. I would semI to Marnoo if we had that line-I should be about 6 miles from Wallaloo. Ollt of virgin soil we take two erops of wheat and oats and fallow it, .but as a rule we let it lie out for two years, and then put it in crop the third year. We eun sheep on it, and that keeps it in good heart. 206. Po 1111'. llarris.-The line from RnpanYllp to Marnoo is estimated by the engilJeer to cost t,2,767. If the line were recommended, and Il.collclition were attaehed that the people of the district should guarantee one-third of the cost of construction, working expenses, and interest, whether they would agree to it would depend on how you make the railway. If you make it on the huttygang system, tailors, shoe­ makers, butchers, and bakers, who cannot do a day's work, we would not guarantee it, but if it were made by practical men, even then I do not think ,ve should gUl1ralltee. If tenders were taken for it, I do not think we should be called on to guarantee. 'fhe area of prollnction will be increased, and I feel confident that the line will pay _ We cannot cart ih the winter, alid \ve have to keep it in the mill and pay storage and insurance for it, and no doubt it gains in weight, but the miHer gets the benefit of that. I sent 400 bags to Geelong two years ago, luid it gained 36 bushels in weight. The same applies to wheat, but we. lose that and pay for storage and insurailce, and we have to apply n great amount more strength to get Lhe produce carried away while we should be prepal'ing the land for~he next year's crop; so the crops are not so good as if the land were thoroughly tilled, but \ve cannot get them to do it. 'Ve have to keep up waggons and horses because of the distance we have to take the produce, and we cannot cart it except in the summer. We callnot get to the present railways with sheep in the winter_ There are thousands of tons of straw going to waste now that eould be utilized. One man has from 300 to 1,500 tons of straw stacked, and a good many farmers have 200 and 300 tons which are wasting and going to dung. While that is 60 here, parties in Wallaloo are. cutting up their straw and carting it to Stawel1, and sending it to Melbourne-look at the consideration that would be if we had a railway. 207. Po the Ghairman_~Thel'e is many l1 crop here thnt would pay better to cut into hay than to strip it. 208. To j}/r. llarris.~I cIo not think the people wOllid be justified in being asked to guarantee anything on the cost-we are giving the land, and thnt ·is as much as we should be asked to dO--"-it is unjust to make us give the land; We hltve had to pay othel' people for their land, hut we are satisfied to give it. I am confident if the railway had beeli made twenty years ago tM- railway deficit would not have been as great as it is: The witness withdrew.

James Aitken, sworn and examined. 209. Po tlte Glwirman.-I am a farmer; I reside 4 miles north of this; I ha·ve heert there over twenty years. I work in partnership with my brother j we have 640 aares in Matuoo. We have some grazing land fmther s011th, about 1,200 aeres-that does not come in with the line in question. Of the 640 acres we cultive 200 a year, last year 250. Last year we had two bags of wheat per acte, and four bags'of oats~we have sold it. We got 48. 7d. a bushel at Cope Cope for wheat, and I sold the oats locally at 3s. It bushel for seed, as it is of snperior quality. The ruling price now for oats is 2s. 6d. to 26; 8d.~I am 18 miles from Cope Cope. }i'rem Rnpanyup, we are 14 miles direct, bilt we have to go 18 miles by the road, owing to cl'Ossing the river Richardson~we have carted to Rupauyup. It is a matter of indiffereh.ce whieh station we go to; sometimes w'e go to Cope Cope and sometimes to Rupanyup ~it is all one as to the distance~we deliver there and sell iti The distance by rail from Cope Cope and Rupanynp is much about the safne. or the three lines~Rupanyup to Maruoo, Glenorchy to Maruoo, lind from St. Arnaud to Marnoo-'-I am in the happy position that it is a matter of indifference to me which is constructed. I would be well served with either. If at Rupanyup, I wonld have 4 miles to cart my' grain; if Gleuol'chy, 8 miles; but I would be luuch nenrer to Melbourne when at Wallaloo. If at Mamou East, from St. Amand I would have about 8 miles to cart it. The Glenorchy to Wallal<:io line would $erv~ me better thlln the RupanYllp to Mamoo. 210. Po Mr. llarris.~I do not think tho residents of the district would be willing to pay ~ special rate until the line was made payable, so as to pay wOi-king expenses and interest; and I do not think it would be fair to ask it. Weare prepared to offer the land. 'l'he witness witluli-ew.

j'ohn M'cDonald J sworn and examined, 211. Po the Gkailrmoo."""-I am a f:1rmer. My two brothers ahd I work together, and out land is scattered. At Marnoo, 2 miles from here, is where we residl') principally, bnt we have other land. We have in this distriet about 2,500 neres, and have other laud in leasehold in Wedderburn. Of the 2,500 acres, lust year was the least we cultivated for some years, about 430 acres-aboilt 500 now is the avernge -a good deal depends upon the natnre of the land. III timbered country in a dry year gives a better yield than black land. Last year we had only 5 bushels. Tbis year we had two bags of wheat and six bags of oats, and the previolls year about three bags of wheat. Thc average for oats is about seven bags for three or four. years back. I cannot say how man,y tons of. grain we- selld to market, As RUPANYUP. c John lIicDoTlald, _.. 12th March, 1896. 18

to the line that would best suit me, :t great deal depends on where the railway station would be. Assnming toat there was a railway from Rnpullyup in the lille to St. Arnaud, or in a direct li!le from there, the one running in a dirGct line from St. Amand would suit us best, or if it were bronght far enough from Wallaloo, the GleuOI:chy liue would snit us. Suppose that Mnrnoo East werc to n railway sr.ation, with a 20 miles extension, that won!~l be aiJolI't the best for lis-the most eonyeuient to us, .oue coming through from Stawel! in n .line would cnt our !

(Taken at Banyena.)

THUHSDAY, 12m MAHCH, 1896.

~{embers present:

MR. CA~IERON, in the Cbair; The BOll. D. Melville, M.L.C. I Mr.lhll't?n, Mr. Harns, Mr. Trenwith. James Cumming, sworn and examined. 212. To the Chai1·man.-I arn a farmer, and have resided in this nei~hbolll'hood over twenty years. I live about 7 mites uorth from Banyena. I have abont 1,200 acres. I cultivate allout 600 acres of' that. I gro\\' principally wheat and oats. I have tried oats latterly and 'found it profitable, more profitable on certain !anti thlLt has been sown with whent for years. I find it bet,ter to put. in a crop of Algerian oats. I have tried it for abont t\\'O yenrs, anll have always found good rewlt8 from it. Of 37 acres of oats this year, ;with lL rainfall of 10 inc-hes, 1 had nine and a ludi bags of oats to the acre•. I sold it for 28. :;td. at Cope Cope. Icnt my crop of woent principally for hay. 'What 1 put in lnte yieldetl two bags to the acre, amI the hay yielded about three quarterci of a tOll to the acre. I sold it on Ihe gronnd fqr £3 a ton. As to my market for gmin, 1cal't it to Cope Copc,a dist.m1Ceol' 12 miles from my place-that is the nearest railway station. Donald is !l.lmost the same distance, but Cope Cope is nearer Melbourne. I am about 1~ miles from RnpanYllp. If I send it to Rupanyup for the Melbourne market, it would bea considerably 101lger distance than froll1 Cope Cope. I principally sell my grain locally, but always cart it to the station. The Cope Cope market is principnlIy for .Melbourne. I think the Cope Cope wheat, .as a rul!', goes to MelbOlll'lle; very little of it is sold locally. I alll!111xions to get the Rllpanyllp milwny; it would be a great advantage to 'me and bring me nearer to a milway. station fo], olle thing, rind make wheat­ gr.owing more. profitable, ami make me break up more of my land; and consequently gjye .a );Jetter iueome for the yeaI'. I think r could eultimte more than half lllJ area a year by fallowing 300 acres and putting in onts in the older laud. This yeaI' there is an exceptional price for oats. I think that fallowing as " whole is thc most profitable way of farming. If YOll gnlZe sheep Oil t,he Innd antI "lough it up and sow a crop immediately, if you have It wet year you might 'get as good a crop, but \vith snch a late l'ainfall as, this the fallowing is the only thing that will gi ve :1 return. I fallow about 3 inches and re-plough it t,hat depth., If you are going to put in new grotIllll,'plongh it as shallow as possible without the fallow.; only make 1, seed hed ;' that is the best system in this dry climnte.· Tile sl1I'face enltinltion we nucHs the best way for producing crops' on new laud. The SllQ80il is a pretty stiff retl e1ay ; it is a good subs

James Cumming, 19 12th March, 1896. gave it one spell and fallowed it for one year, and this year, had I stripped it, it would have given me four bags to the acre. We have collected the statistics in the area that the Committee travelled over to-day. Our secretary will bring them before yon. . 213. To Mr. Burton.-The line is a coutinuation of the Rupanynp line to Banyena ; then It t~es a detour to the south and goes to Marnoo. If instead of taking a detour to the south it went? or 4 miles past this township towards Cope Cope, say 15 miles from Rupanynp, it wonld be just a calculatIOn between the extra freight I would have to pay and what I would save by cartage with my own teams. I could not Bay whether 1 would patronize it or not till 1 went into tIle figures. The line spoken of would eome about 5 miles from my farm. 1 am near where the five roads join and come back towards Bauyena, where you travelled to-day. If it were within 3 miles of me 1 would take my produce to the railway station, because I am sure the difference in freight to Melbourne would make up the greater carriage by horse from· the farm to the station. I would pay the longer freight then if it came that close to me. 1 shear from 500 to 600 sheep annually. I send the wool to Cope Cope; that wool goas to Geelong principally. 1 raise some fat stock for market; I send them by rail to Ballarat, trucking them at Cope Cope. The projected line would be an advantage in sending cattle a shorter road to Ballarat, say even 5 miles from me. I sold my hay to a Melbourne buyer this year, and trncked it at Cope Cope. It goes straight to Melbourne. I did not find a good market at St. Arnaud for the quantity 1 had this year. In our district the wheat crop does not give you, as a rule, sufficient crQP to justify you in converting it into hay. We find it more profitable to take off the wheat. We have a creamery at Avon Plains, 5 miles from my place. The cream is consigned to :afelbourne at Cope Cope. We have no local butter factory here nor at St. Arnaud. The figures to be furnished you to-night I am, for one, responsible for. 1 will swear they are correct. The witness withdrew. Edmond Reseigh, sworn and examined. 214. To the. Chairman.-l am a fanner, residing about 4 miles north-east of Banyena. I have been in the district twenty years. Altogether 1 have 2,400 acres. I bought lately about 932 acres for my sons; we work it together at the present time. That is about 6 miles from here to the north. We cultivated on the old place from 30p to 400 acres out of the 1,480, growing chiefly wheat. Our last harvest went nearly four bags to the ~cre; that was a bad season, but fortnnately we did not put in our usual quantity, we put in only what we had fallowed. 1 might say we fallow from 150 to 200 acres, and the balance is land that grew a crop the previous year, but owing to the low price we left that out last year, and it was well we did, for the fallowed land turned out well, and the other did not, owing to the dry season. We carted to Cope Cope, 15 miles; we are about 16 miles from Rupanyup and about the same from Donald. There is not much difference in the roads, they are about the same. Donald is the easier road, but it is a little further away from Melbourne-a mile or two. Last year we had about 540 bags, the year before about 1,000, and the year before about 1,100. VVe keep about 1,000 sheep and cut about sixteen to twenty bales of wool. About 300 of .the sheep may be lambs, representinl! the increase for the year. I send the wool to Cope Cope. We keep.about 50 head of cattle and milk about 30 cows. We have sent some butter to Melbourne, Ballarat, and. Stawell by r:til; just at present we take it to St. Arnaud. If the low price of wheat last year had continued we would have cultivated this year quite as much as we did before. Of course last year we slackened off a little, because the price was so low, but 1 do not think we should come below that. I think it would still pay. I have said, and say it again, that if 1 cannot make it pay no one can, with the land I ~ave, and the help I have 'from my sons. 1 believe' in this district it would pay, bccause we always get a fairly good return. I think 1 can safely say, for twenty years our fallowed land bas ·a,veraged. over four bags to the acre, sometimes as high as seven, over a. considerable portion of it. My buying 900 aeres. shows I believe in this district. I know what it will do, and that applies generitlly to Banyena. They are, all very good farmers; we farm systematically and are paid for it. 1 do not think there is any land in the Wimmera better than in this locality, so far as I know. I am sure we are entitled to a railway; we have been at it nearly twenty years. £3 per acre is about the. value of the land here. There is not much land leased here. Mr. Guthrie let some land on the share system­ the bag to the acre principle. Some has been let for the last four years. In that case the owner does not provide anything. If the price of wheat is Is. 9d. that is just what he gets-about 78. 6d .. an acre. It makes a lot of difference this year in the ·price. There is no sliding scale; it is just a bag to the acre. There has beeu·a lot of land let on the share system, the last three or four years, by Mr. Guthrie. I do not mueh care for the system myself, because you are almost compelled to put in the same la·nd four years in succession, and -by" the time the third-year crop iain the land begins to get dirty, and the third and fourth years the crops 'are not so good. , 215. To Mr. Trenwith.-If there is a yield of one bag and a half only, I heard that Mr. Guthrie deals very liberally with the men. A friend of mine was leasing the land; it was a poor crop, and Mr. Guthrie dealt very liberally with him. I heard it was very satisfactory to the farmer who leased the land; lie was very well pleased with the way he was treated. 216. To the. Hon. D. Metville.-!fhe municipal rate is Is. in the £1 ; that comes to about £2 to the 320 acres. 217. To Mr. Tren~ith.-£40 a year is how the land is rated to the shire, and some less than that. It is not high, but I might say ·on this side the rate is very much higher than tbat; that is on the west side of the river, in the Dunmunkle shire, where they·pay a rate of Is.9d. 218. To M". Harris. -1 sell my wheat almost invariably at Cope Cope. It goes to Melbourne, and most of, it is sent there for shipment. In fact nearly all the whe!1t in this district goes to Melbourne for shipment.. Usually it is a very superior kind of wheat-clean and good; it is only that class of wheat that is sent home. I do not know that there, is mnch difference as to tbe Geelong seaboard and the Melbourne market: The other holdings in the district have about the same output as mine, taking a similar acreage. We have not cultivated extensively; 350 acres out of the 1,480 is not extensive cultivation. We have adopted the rule that we· prefer putting in a smaller quantity, but working it as thoroughly as we can, and I' think- we have been rewarded by taking that course. .

T"M Vlienll81J wiekdrew. 02 20

Atfhur Duke, sworn alid examined. . . 2i9. To tite Oj~aiJr1nan.-i am a farmer; residing just the other slde of the bridge, dose to :Santena. t have been .in t~e di~trict teu years. I pnrchased my land at £3 all acre~620 acres. 1 .used t5> go. III for wheat cultlvat~on sll1ce 1888, and since then I found, with the cartage to Cope Cope, and employing !lired labclUr, and domg -three trips a week, it did not pay mc, so I have gone in now for sheep. In 1888 I got 1;050 bags from 350 acres. 1 let the carting of ~90 \Jags at 1 s. a bag ancl bought a team of buliocl;:s myseifi . and ~old the buI1oek~ to. pay the carta&e. In 1889, a bad ye~r" the yield was 290. bags from 250, acr~s a~d I paId for cartage of 66bags at Is. a hag •. ' In 1890, the YIeld wa~ 925 bags £i'om ~Oo. acres, and pald cartage for 5~9 bags at Is. 11 bag. Iu 1891, I had about 500 bags from 150 acres. In 1892; I got 1,i 75 bags from 299. a:cres, an~l paid cartage for 'ti2 bags. at 10d .. tn 1893, 1 had 874b!!-gs fro_m 300 acres, an~ paid cartage for 710 bags at lOd. ab.ag. Being disgusted at ~aving to pay for hired labo!lr, I went)n for only 100. a;cres, and got, 320 bags from 99 acres: In 1895, I got, 267 bag~ .£r()Ul1.o0 acres. This year I got .70 bags of wheat ~rom 70 aeres, 60 bags of oats from 45 acres, and 7 bags of English barley from 7 acres. In the present year I have pnt in 230 acres on the speck 01 a line coming. 1 send to Cope Cope, 16 mlies from me. The road is better to there and there is no storage to pay. If aline does not come here.): shaH cuitivatc n~ more-I shall clear out. My land ~s as good as any in tlfe ~listri.ct. I heard the eviden

Arohibald Gray! swoth and eXOimitied. 22 L To tiu~ Chairm(Ui.~I am a storekeeper in tliis toWnship. 1 do not bwn any. £aITh ubohe liere ; I owli some laUd abOut 15 mil~s froni hete sO.!lib, hi the extreme end of the parish of' Wallaloo. I get my goods froth Melbolirne, Dallal'at, and Geelollg, vid Rlipai:\yup, beih~ the liearest station. I d? my own carting, k(~eping a mall for that rnii'pose. I pltt it down at about 155. a ton. I liave paid £2 in ith, unusally wet wi liter. III slIl1:nner time it can be got, pal'hlips, for lOs. by back teitlnS, but YOll mlist lOad up. If there \Vere 1\., railway I would he Willilig' to paj the same i'ate as on existing liiles, but Imythitlg less than 15s; Iv ton would be It gain to lne: It would pay me to pay lOs. it tori if I cOlild dispense With my mali. I calinot say what lny heighbOui's 'would do. I have beeh ill the district seveli or eight years. I deaL with tlie farmers; I tim hot a grain buyer. trhe railWay wbuld be a distinct advantage to me because it w'ouid 0iiQ.ble me to get my goods at a loWer rate than by carting, and then I could a,tock smaller and work the business oll it lower stock, lLlid anythilig I had I (iOlild get a,vay mOre convenietltly. I hav~ no idea of the tonnageI get; it is mixed ftilights. Last yeaI' I paid the railways £102 ror freights. I sentI dairy produce and sheep skiiiil awav by, rail. I slippose I sent l11vay about 8 tons of dairy produce-= it tised to 'be more; but the local eteamety takes'the bulK no\v. I desire, with the Committee's permissiou, to controvert the official l'eporu, as to the returhs between Bartyena and RIIP!l.i1YII):I by' Mr. Jones. In getting thl:i statistics we tl.slted the people to be careful; (me of the MlIectbrs got everyone to sign a papet after g-ivihg particulars. 'rhey Were not plit oil their oath. I have here the statistics fot a r!l.diUS or 9 miles on the north Side of the railway from RUpitnyup to Banyeha. Otir object ,vas to make a case 16l' Banyehil. ; we think JY[r, Jones's figutes ate ca.lculatM to mislead. The witIiess handed in the Ioll6wiug statistics collceniiI1g land withiii 'a fallius of 9 miles oli the fiOrth side of l'mjposed line of railway from Rupanylip to Ballyena :"-' Grain, 24,614 bags 2,461 tons. lIay and chaff '2;122 tons. Wool, 454 bales 19 tons 8 cwt. 2 qrs. Dairy produce .. ' io6 tons 17 ow t . Live stock 104 truCKS. Popnlation to be servcd ... 655. Area to be sown in 1896 ..• 15,904 acres. In addition to foregoiftg, Mr. Guthrie, of Rich Avon, had 35 trucks live stock _and 60 toM wool, and 'ail. 'rhos. Skene, of Marnoo station, 9 trucks live stoek and 23 tons wool, Which would probably be loaded at BaDyena. I- cannot say thut eVel'y ton of all that weuld be produced i.i'ithin 9 miles of Banyena: 1 cannot say it would COllle on this li'!le and not go to Cope Cope; I can only submit the figures. As to chaff and hay, there "re about 500 to 600 tons being handled, ancl the balance of it will go wheD: cut. .That, I believe, .would hav:e been loaded here from two or three farms, had there oeeil facilities within reach of' Banyena. That chall'is g9ingto Melbourne, in nearly every case to be transhipped to Westetti Austr!l.lIa and other markets., It is a shorter clistance from Cope 'Cope to MelbOurne t!iii,h from RupanyiIp to Melbourne; if it cost 28. more .to send it this way than by Cope Cope, I would send it the cheaper Way. I give as accnr_atelyas I can t~!l return from the land. [do hot think any man c!1n say What proportion Of that ,"ill find its Way to outside foreign markets from the district. I cannot say how much the pf6pos~d line might rob the line already in existence. Should the Committee recommend a line in any way near Baliyena, the farmet'~ intend to have agraill store 'erected immediately, as they think it will be a great COil veniance to them. .Algerian oats are being extensively cliltivMed, and they save a seasori by that as it cleahses the land, an4 they invariably get a good crop. One mall here has had fourteen bags of those oats to the acre; that shows that the freightage, will, be maintained probably, even if wheat goes down !\ little. They told me themselves that it was better at lId. than the wheat at Is. 6d., but before the season was over they were up to a profitable price, a.nd ··i :_, , 45

A'Mbilmld Gr&y, 21 12th lIlal'Ch,l896. the cheapness stimulated censumption. Within the last two years there were about 600 tens of straw given away or burnt at a farm here. That weuld have previded freightage for It train, with a station' within a reasenable distauce of Banyena. There is a creamery here. It dees not result in a great ameunt of freight to the traiu, but it is a great convenience to the peeple, amI dairying is going te be carried out ~n conjunction with wheat-growing, as the one assists the other. I myself hold 274 acres 1'l,t Wallaloo, that IS being grazed 1'l,t present-ne cultivation. It was cultivated in years gene hy; ene year a pertion yielded 17 bushels ef wheat. Stawell was the nearest statien at the time. It is two er three miles frem Callawadda south-it was knewn as Deg Trap at that time. ' The witness 'fitMrew.

Jehn Hollaud, sworn and examined. 222. To the Ghairman.-I am a farmer. I have resided here the last 24 years. I am 6 miles frem here, north-east, between here and Cope Cope. I selected 320 acres, and have 834 now. I purchased the balance. I cultivated, the last four or five years, 30 er 40 acres. We have been cultivating eur rented land and spelling our own land and putt.ing sheep en it. We eat a pertion ef the sheep, shear the weol arid send it away, alld send a ceuple of trueks ef fat,sheep aWl\y. In 1892, 1893, and 1894 we had 300 acres of land rented here. We forward the wool to Cope Cepe, and get it forwarded to Melbeurne, if wedo net sell to the agent at Cope Cepe-that is eur nearest statioll. If the railway were extended to Banyena I should decidedly come here if it went through to St. Arnaud; if it only came to Banyena I weuld certainly come to it, because I would have 6 miles instead ef 12. The extra freightage eu _the railway is nething compared te having te cart. I would rather save my cattle to werk en the farm. The rend is bad at times between here and Cope Cope, blltas It rnle, it is easiel' draught than from here to St. Arnaud. The roads are about the same all over the district. In the winter they are 1:)ad. I have beeu 33 years around Banyena as a resident, aud 24 farming. Since 1872 I have been farming. I was one of the :first selectors up here; I sent my stuff to Stawell then, a truck 11, week. We reckened we carted it 50 miles. I am satisfied with anything new, for I have get tobe. I have been se long accustomed to bad feads I take them fIS they come, it is no nse grumbling. The distance from my plaee te Cope Cope is 12 miles. We paid 4s. er 5a. an acre to rent land at Banyena, but we found the carting cost too much. My ewn land is good enough, and I am prepared to cultivate again. I have a number ef sons of my own. They have all been reared en the greund. I do not think there is any part of the Wimmera where there are more bona fide settlers. We have had to live without a reael er a railway. Ifwe had not elone that we would not be here. The w,'tne88 withdrew.

F:raud$ l\fill~r, §wern lUl.q e~amjl1ed. 223. To the Cltainnan.-i am a farmer and grazier, residing 6 miles from here, towards Cope Cope. I held 1,000 ac'rea freeheld. I do not cultivate any except 20 acres. I rent land for cultivatien. I am giving my ewn land a spell. The larges~ area I cultivated in one year was 500 acres, that was last year; and this year I and a neighbeur rented 500 acres, just across here, for feur years at 7 s. an acre. We have cultivated almest the whole of it ever since with wheat. The time is up. We have entereel inte all arrange­ ment te cultivate 1,000 acres en shares, en the half-share principle. The owner, prevides a plant equal to our half, seed, and half of the plant, and he clears the land, and we do the work. If the price of wheat comes down as low as it was a year or eighteen months ago I \veuld still centinue; I would net sell out if I could help it, theugh down to these rates. Wheat always changes in price. I believe if it goes dewn it will always ceme up. I send my wheat to Cope Cope. It is 18 miles frem the place we rent. That place is 12 miles actually, but, as a matter offo,ct, we have to cross rivers that practically make it 24. Between RllpanYllp and MeLbourne !md between Cope Cepe and Melbourne the mileage is 20 er 30 miles different, so it makes a geed deal ef difference to a load sent dewn by train. If the railway were extended to Banyena and I were 6 miles away I weuld send it to Banyena and pay fer the lenger distance. It nearly ruins our teams carrying wheat. ,\Ve can only make three trips a week. It keeps the horses on the road when they should be en the farm. No doubt if there were a lille here this share system wonld increase a good deal. We shall net stick te the one piece of land; we will go from one part to another. Taking off a crop improves the land, and then we cease for 0, time. But cultivation pays much hetter than grazing if you get geod crops. Within a radius of 8 miles from Banyena I have only a vague idea of hew much is under cultivatien. It is net half; Y think fully one-third. 224. To the lion. D. Melville.:.....The 'Iewest price I have had for wheat since I leased the land has been 1s. 8d.) and the bighest 48. 8d. The dreught is cansing the high price new. It has net risen in Lendl)n mncb. If we had had more wheat we weuld bave had less money; but I believe always that circumstances come which we cannot foresee, to raise the price of wheat when it gets very low, becanse the world finds it caunot produce at the price. It has Tisen some­ what in the world's lli:1rket. I think it wo,s as low as 248., und it is 298. 6d. lIOW. It cenld be can-ied on profitably even Itt only a -feW' pence more than t,he Lenden price, but fortunately we do not have te de that, and we live in hepes that we never shall have te. ,\Ve paid 7s. for the land we held four years. I do not think the land all round here is werth that; I should say frem 35. Btl. te 48. Being uew is why I can afferd to give a little mere. It will be It very useful thing if we have a line here fer live steck. 'We trnck a goed denl of live stock, and throngh having to take it to Cope Cope, and the traiu starting on Monday, we are invariably on the,read all Sunday. I have been in this district since I was a bey, I do net think yeu can better this district very much for the money you pay for the laud here. I think yeu get ns good vulue ItS in any part ef Vietori~t ; indeed, I think better, und the quality is top, Nobody gets any better prices for it than we get. It costs 6d. to get it frem Cope Cepe to Melbeurne. 'l'hat makes 28. 3d. in Melbourne, when we get 1 s. 9d. I believe at ene time it was Is. 6d. 225. To 111r. Burton.-In the ene-third under cultivation I iuclude the fallow land aud that actually under crep. . , 226. To JJl,r. Harris.-When we (lame here first, my father llseel to take eight, nine, ten, and thirteen crops right ofr, but we had mere expensive means offarming, because, instead ef stripping, we useii always Francis Miller;. 12th'March; 1896. 22.

to reap' it and, carry the dirt off. Now with the stripping, in two or three or four yea.rs' the land is so dirty it will not produce anything, and you have to graze it a year or two and fallow it. The clea:t:ed land ,is estimated to carry one sheep to the acre. It is a matter of opinion ,,,hether the cleared land is better'Or'wOrse.: It is good fattening country, so that some people have several 'sheep during the year and' get them off'. 'It is only the' large landowners you can lease from-only the stations. I have not found, any difficulty in arrangi!lg to get land from them. ' The half-share system I have gone in for is the :first in this' district.' The usual thi[]g the last few years is to give a bag to the acre; and of course the farmer does everythitlg -clears the land and :finds the seed. The time is from three 'to five years.', 'The absence 'of"a i'aihvay' within 10 miles has, I think, prevented people putting morc acres under lease. The teams are on the road when they should be preparing the next year's crop. If there were a railway nearer I think there would be more applicants for blocks. From 500 to 700 acres is a good big lot for any man to undertake. I know the Avon Plains well and the Laen district. That place you saw on the hill is 13 or 14 miles from Cope Cope. It costs about 10d. a bag to carry ,to the railwa,r.

The witne8s withdrew.

Adjourned.

(Taken at Boyle's Bl·idge.)

FRIDAY" 13TH MARCH, 1896.

Members present:

MR. CAMERON, in the Chair; The Hon. D. Melville, M.L.C. Mr. Burton, Mr. Harris, Mr. Trenwith. Godfrey Mackinnon, sworn and examined. 227. To the Chairrnan.-I am ,a farmer and grazier. I reside at Marnoo, about 9 miles from Boyle's Bridge. The family, eight of us, hold 1,022 acres. Some of the' family are grown up, varying in age from nineteen to three. I cultivated 288 acres last year; the year before 300, and the year before that. 400 acres. I anticipate putting in 220 acres in addition this year to what I put in last year, I grow wheat, oat5, and barley" principally wheat. I have had as high, as seven bags, and as low as 3 bushels to the acre the last twenty Y8!Lrs. It averages about three bags. The nearest paddock I have to a railway is about 15 miles distant. I go over the whole ground in rotation. The furthest paddock I have is about 18 miles from Rupanyup; I send my grain there mostly. I have sent it to St. Arnaud. When I cultivated ~he paddock 4 miles from herc I sent it mostly to Stawel1 ;' the line from Rupanynp to St Amaud wO,nld suit me best. If it took a turn 10 miles north of Banyena it would not suit me there; it would be as llear for me to go to Rupanyup. There is a good road to Rupanyup. About 10 miles is a reasonable distance to travel to a train to go and come in a day--eight bags of wheat to go to a ton of wheat, and twelve bags of oats. I cannot say how' many tons altogether 1 have sent. I get :five or six bags of oats to the acre; the cost of cartage 1.0 Rnpanyup is 9d. and 10d. a bag. I cart it mostly with my own team, but have often let some. I bave paid Is. to St. Arnaud, and Is. to Lubeck. Stawell is my general market when I send 10 Rupanynp; if I do not sell in Rupanyup I send it to Stawell, to store it. The line from Rupanyup to St. Arnand if partly constructed, say 20 miles, wonld snit me better: than ,the 20 miles from Rupanyup. Changing my market would not make a bit of uifference, because I do not owe anything in Rupanyup, and do not owe much in 8t.' Arnaud.' As to the value of land in my. locality, I gave £3 aD acre for what'I bought. That it about the average pric~. I do not know of any land sold about there for less. I have put a little stable maDlire on for potatoes. I do not buy any' mannre. I take about three crops out of the land without any rest, and mn sheep on it' then for abont three years, and then break it up again. I plough it about 4 inches. I find that to he enough. 228.1'0 Mr. Burton.-Ifaline were built from St. Arnaud to Wallaloo it would not make,any difference to me from a line from Glenorchy to Wallaloo, because we would be within 4 or 5 miles if it went to Wallaloo. The line from Glenorchy to Marnoo would be near, my land. I am in the centre of MarIloo, where I am living; it is immaterial whether the lil~e is from one side to the centre, or from the other side to the centre, as long as the line comes. I cannot say which would be the more profital1le ; whichever was the lowest freight and the cheapest line would be the most profitable. , 229. To Mr. Harris.-The land I purchased is cleared. There is very heavy box: timber on it. I paid seven years ago 35s. an acre for grubbing some of it. It is done much cheaper DOW because the timber is rung. The last I got grubbed last year cost me 128. 6d. an acre. 230: 1.'0 the Chairman.-I employ one man besides my own family. There are threc of my family working besides myself and wife and a man; it is as much as I can do to make it pay. I am working 1,000 acres; I graze thc rest of it and have some milking cows. The cattle of course require looking after.

T'M witnes8 wiehd'l'etI.I.

Adjourned.

--- 47 23 ( Taken at St. Amaud.)

FRIDA Y, Ilhu MARCIl, 1896. MfJmbers present:

MR. CAMERON, in the Chair; The Hon. D. :fi!Ielville, M.L.C. Mr. Burton, Mr. Harris, Mr. Trenwith.

George Henry Osborne, sworn and examined. 231. To the Chairman.-1 am a commission agent, residing at St. Arnaud. 1 have ,been here 23 years. 1 know the country between here and Rnpanyup; my business constantly takes me oyer it. 1 know the linc survey hetween Rupanyllp and St. Armmd as fil: as Banyena. 1 am not so well acquainted with the country the otlier side of Brlnyeua. I have a st,.tcment here, by order of the .councillors, of statistics between here and Rupanyup, which have been obtained by me or under my directiou; they lire prepared uy me and sworn to by the different collectors who took the statistics under my guidance. They start from about 6 miles from St. Arnaud and go to 6 or 7 miles from this sidc of RupallYup. I took it 10 miles where it does not interfere with another railway; we have gOlle as far as 12 '01' 13 miles where the people will benefit, but the average is 10 miles. We went 10 miles because the people would directly benefit by that. I should say 10 miles away would s1Iit them. ]f we had made it 10 miles from each end it would leave very little country to take statistics from, only abou.t 18 miles. Starting at the 6 miles point we did not take the statistics 10 miles on each side, but went out at an angle. At 9 miles we took the distance of 10 miles OIl each side, because they would then be 19 miles aWRY from this town. The whole of the statistics I am giving reb te to people who would directly benefit by j'he line j they themsclves say so, and they would then be nearer this line than any existing line. In nearly every caso the person gave the statistics himself; 1 should say they are quite reliable, and they han) been sworn to by the respective collectors by declaration, a,nd I make a declaration myself also. The popnlation is I ,86380u18 on this line. Possibly the number would increase if we had a rail way, as the cropping area would increase. The population may be a little larger than that, because' I may have missed some people. 1 take in a portion of Wallaloo. I know the hall there; that part is tak en in ; that is 10 miles from Maruoo. The whole of Wallaloo is in it if the hall is within the 10 miles area. On the south side of the liue Mr. McConochie collected the statistics; and on the north side Mr. Newell, as far as our shire boundary. He went 10 miles north, and took a line right along 80 as not to interfere with any existing line. The total area that will be benefited by the line would be 278,391 acres. Mr. Jones gave the area HS 250,000 acres, but my figures were taken actually from the people. Ready for cultivation, 61,759, in the everit of a railway. Under cultivation in.1895, 37,684 acres. There wonld have been a larger areft nnder cultivation had it not been for the previolls bad season; they were giving the Jand a rest. This 37,684 acres produced 38,962 bags of wheat. Taking an average of 4 bushels to the ·bag it gives 155,848 bushels, or 4,174 Ions. Oats, 15,079 bags, giving, at an average of 4 bushels to the bag, 60,316 bushels, or 1,077 tons; 743 bags of barley, making 2,972 bushels, or 66 tons; hay, 4,320 tons. I have not taken straw, but in the event of a railway. a large amount of straw will be cut up and sent away as ehaf!'. Steam chaffcutters go round the railway districts now. The proposed cultivation for 189G is estimated at 42,997 acres, which, taking an average of 10 bushels to the acni, will yield 11,517 tons. );fost of the land is of good quality, nearly all suitable for cereals. The timber country towards Tottington is Buited for fruit and vine growing; graperies would be established along the line if they had millYay communication. The country is all good fattening country. I notice in the Commissioners' report they give 50 trucks as having been sent along the line. Mr. Macdonald, Mr. Newel!, and Mr. Hynes seut 28 trncks between them; Some people sent them here, and others to Rupanynp, and some to Cope Cope; none to Donald. Neither Mr. Hynes, nor Mr. Macdonald, nor Mr. Ne~\Yell would send to Donald. There is plenty of good timber country on the south side, good for sleepers; and good material for ballast could be got at Carapooee, within a few milefj of ·the town here. They were grazing on the land at t.he time 2,758 horses, 5,135 head of eat tIe, 159,233 sheep. Averaging 5lbs. of wool per sheep' gives a product of 355 tons. There were 944 pigs on the land. The value of the land ranges from £2 5s. to £4 lOs. an acre, giving an average of £2 15s. for the district. A fair proportion of .the stock mentioned would go by rail. A certain proportion would be fattened and sent away. Most of the wool would go 'away, because the sheep would, be shorn even if fat. I cannot tell how many trucks would be used. I am the sworn valuer for the district, so I can speak of the valnes. Iu the event of the railway a large, quantity of the squatting areas would be cut up and let to farmers on the bag of wh!!at to the acre system. ,Mr. Skene would probably go in much more largely for that. Mr. Guthrie. at Avon Plains, and Mr. Lascelles, at Donald, Ilre doing so. 232. When there is only. one bag to an acre of wheat, how can the people live ?-1n Mr. Guthrie's case I know where selectors took half, and he took the other half. If they do not get a bag to the acre, the squatters cannot get it. They seldom resume the land. 1 think they fix it on a sliding scale and rely on the squatter's generosity. The agreement is a bag to the acre; failing to get that they could resume possession of the land, but they have Dot done so. The price the squatter gets, of COUfse, depel1l1s on the price of wheat; this year he would get £1 an acre, last year only 68. The tenant wonld get 28. or 3s. this year. I think: they are likely to continue. I know at Mr. Guthrie's they are continuing, in fact, they are going to increase their area. The number of people employed ou· the area I have given as 291; those are hired servants, and are included in the population 1 have given. Last year the cultivation was 37,684 acres. Many· of the farmers have sons. Ie have not· t!tken those as employes. I have merely taken the labour outside the families. Probably half would be carried on by the families, but-1 eannot give the actual figures for that. As to the 2,758 horses, 1 ·think the farmers use most of the, horses they have OIl the farm. I did not take the exact number of horses employed for cultivating the area or the llumbcrof cows they use for dairying purposes. In the event of making Maruoa the terminus, takiug the Commissioners' report; they show a loss of '£4,099, and G. H. Osbome, 13th March, 1896. 24

from Rupanynp to Marnoo £2,928, showing that the loss from Maruoo would be £1,971, so there is a differ­ ence in t.he annual loss of £15'7 in favour of starting from the St. Arnaud line. If only 20 miles were constructed I think St. Arnaiid would be the best starling point, and the farmers at Marnoo and tha't distriet seem most decidedly in favonr of a through line (lireet from Rupanyup to St. Arnaud. But in toe, event of Marnoo being made the terminus they wonld prefer that it should start from the St. Arnaud end as it would bring them nearer the markets. The statistics I have shown you would apply almost to the whole of that country if the line started from St. Arnaud and ended at LVlarnoo, because, taking the line 10 miles in the Rupanyup direction they wonld benefit by the line stopping at Marnoo and commencing at St. Arnaud.' Mr. J ones' report is not correct as 'comparedwith my statistics. With a line from St. Arnaud to Marnoo it would be convenient for the people to take their produco to Marnoo from 10 miles north; that would be. a considerable distanee ; it would be 13 or 14 miles from Cope Cope I think. These statistics were taken only from those who were nearer the Marnoo line. I think people living half-way between 1\Iarnoo and Cope Cope would come to Marnoo in preference to going to Cope Cope. They would come if the distanee from 1\1arl;lOo to Melbourne was nearer than from Cope Cope to Melbourne. The distance between Cope Cope and St. Arnaud is 17 miles; thflt from Marnooto St. Arnand 20 miles, whicli makes the distance to Melbourne 3 rniles more. .i\ man just on the exact boundary would go to Cope Cope to sav~ the distance, unless he eould get a better market the other way. The roads are about the bal11e through all that country. The count,y is as good between the centres I mentioned as between Cope Cope and Marnoo. It is all good right to Cope Cope; siI!).ilar to what you passed through to-day. . , 233. You know the Space between St. Arnq,ud to the Donald line and the line to the west, and for. 10 or 20 mile;;! north and the same distance SOl1 th ?-Yes, I lruow the country from here to Donald and across to Cope Cope, TIHi line from Rupanyup to st. Arnand would be the best to serve the whole of that eountry, because it taps the !\brnoo and WaUaloo country. By going the other way YOll get nearer the Donald line, anq into Minyip on the other side; l tlo not know the country fl'om Glenorchy, but only the country on this s~de. I run into Banyena and Donaltl, and Birchip, but in Stawell I have very little travelling beyond Banyena and .!\farnoo; I kr:lOw none of the conntry between there and Glenorchy. I think thosceross lines wOlJlcl be better than the line from Avoca throng~ Navarre and on to Wallaloo, and to Rupanyup and Banyena, bec!].u:;;e you go through a lot of very barren country from Avoca that will not be served in any particular way; you do Ilot get much good country until yon get to the j\lcl by ran. lJ a railway were constructed between Rupanyup aJld St. Arnaud, I thil}k we wQult) get nfJarly all our supply Ilt Gte Gre village, There are great quantities of firewood where the farmers havl' been ringing their tiInber, beautif\ll wood which would last for years. We get the props from the Bonlanghan E.:mges, by teams, 15 Or 16 milss. The top timber we get is very bad. We Pay from 66. up to 16s. ,an(i £1 per 100 feet. We let a contract for twelve months generally; the last contract is beforf; the board in Melbourne now. I think ~or firewood it would he about12s. or 128. Gd, a ·co.rd. The wood we get here was 12s. 3d, last YE)l1r. TW!le ()r four years ago we paid about the Bal)l!? price.' It is not getting (iearer, but the wood is of il1~\,ldO!; qnaUty; Olle (lord five years ago was worth a cord and a quarter now. We t?ontract for the laths froID, Trentha.m, aml the large ones cost from £3 to ;£3 IQs, a hunqreQ.. 1: c!tl}not say from mel}lory' how rnuc)J. we spelld 11 year on laths; probably £10 a month. We do not USe a great quantifY of s!twn ti.ro.bQr eX(}ept when sij:jking. If there were a railway· between ,Rup~nyup and St. Arnand r canI!0t say how ma,IJ.Y tons wOI!ld be t!tken on that line. I do not know the fixed scale for wo()d por tOI). JAeasureme.qt. 1 thiIJ.k a ()ord would be abont 2t tons weight. We con!l'!l:me \09 !lord!! a fortp.1ght, W4ic4 would all COInO by rail, Jt WQuld be cheaper for us to get it by rail, because Wf) would get a better quality of wooq, W c pay rn(jre for the wood we ure getting from Donald now, but it is a better quality /1nd cOl}seqt:!!lntly cqea,pe): il~ proportton. 238. To J/r. Burton• .....,l do not know tbat a contract hat.! \;;etlll let this week for the wood at lis. Sd, a cord <; people generally know my busiu£}s8 better thaD, +kI!oW h myself; 12s. 3d. is not a high price to pa.y for firewoqd, but it is for the quality of wood we get. By the railway spoken of the split timber we would get woukt be stronger than that we get from Trentham; I ,efer to laths, whnt the miners call runner~, sl!Lbs 6 by 2 inches thick and 7 wide. There is t~mber in the Eoulanghan Ranges suitable for spl\ttit)g l I haye not had any frow there, 'l'a~ing split laths, firewood, and all together, our mine con­ sumes betwecl! ,*00 and i?()0 ~on!3 of wOOtt {I. fortrl~ght. On. thf) pr!;lsent existing line we have not got any firerv09(;) th~ nearest ,we ~I! do !1-~ythin.e; with, is P';lD~ld. 1 have been making inquirieH about that myself.

--- 49 Zebina Lane, 25 13th Mruch, 1896.

There is some lower down the line, but we cannot get it at the same price as from Donald, 14s. 6d. a cord. There is not much difference in the quality of that from the 128. 3d., but I would rather pay the 14s. 6d. as that wood is easier to steam with. 239. To MI'. Han·is.-Our company is a no-liability company, 36;000 shares. Present area held is about 50 acres, helel nnder lease. Cheaper and better timber is a very important factor in keeping a mine going. It is a saving of labour to have good timber to put uude!' ground, amI safer through having it stronger. We employ regularly 155 hands working at the mine, and to supply the timber it takes about 25 hands more. We pay fortnightly in wages £650 on the average. The cost of timber and fire­ wood is about £120 a fortnight. The witnes8 withdrew.

John Boyle, sworn ~nd examined. 240. To the Chail·man.-I am a farmer. I reside at Mitchell's Hill. I have about 1,700 acres, and cultivate a little over 300 acres. I grow wheat and oats principally, and a little barley, the largest proportion ·wheat. It was not ~o good this year. Three to four bags to the acre is the usual average. This year some was very much lower. My market is St. Arnaud, but I cart some of my wheat to Cope Cope, which is the nearest market, and it is a little easier for the horses. We send to Melbourne or anywhere we like from the railway station at Cope Cope, which is from 14 to 15 miles from my place. We manage to come and go in a day, but it is a hard day's work. Last year it was a very low average, about 450 bags; but other years it was 600 or 700 bags, and the hay crop was very light this year. At present the price of wheat.is 4s. 7d. I have been offered 2s. 8d. for my oats. I eut some of the crop for hay; I did not sell it. As to the lowest price for wheat, yon could make it pay, if you farm well, at 3s. a bushel. I did not give it up when I WitS getting less than 28. ; but a good many did not put in wheat the last year, because it was so low; but I have the men and horses to keep, and I had better keep them in work, 90 I put it in. I send ·stock by rail to Balla,rat ; I sent them from St. Arnaud, and sent the sheep the same way. I sold my wool at home this last year. We send cream to the Gre Gre village; it is a long way. It would make It little freight for the railway. We milk sixt<;en or seventeen cows, and keep about 40 head of cattle. . I might sell ten or twelve a year. Supposing the line were constructed only half the distance, I would "-.., prefer the one from St. Arnaud, because it is a long way shorter, and would save the freight. It' the line ~wel:£. constructed across by Mamoo it would run through my ground, not far from the school; some of my cultivation is there; that is 6 miles frOID the school. I would send to Marnoo if there were a railway, iu preference to Cope Cope. A line from qlenorchy to Marnoo would suit me well enough, but it would throw out the be~t of the country. The country lying to the left of Banypna, a large area that you come through from Glenorchy to Dog Trap, is inferior eounLry with no cultivation on it. I know the route very well. The best of the country is down below towards the north between that amI Banyena. You throw out all that. I cauuot say whether Marnoo is further from Banyena than Rupanyup. I think they . would continue to cultivate their land and put in more if there were a railway. Of course the price of grain would have a little to do with it, but it will not be always 1 s. 6d. a bushel. If so, it would be time to close up; If we give the lund 'for nothing to the Government, the price they used to pay should be borne ill mind. As to road making, it is no good forming 21 feet of a road without loaming it ; it is done for 30s. a chain. 241. To the Han. D. Melville.-I have been growing wheat for about 22 years. The last three years I have had as big an average as at any time. I never had more than 350 acres. If a railway were near me I might put in 100 aCl'es more. We can eontinue cropping as long as we like shifting from place to another; if you work the land right and manure it with artificial manure, you can keep it up. If there were a railway there would be an increase of cropping whatever the price. If the price comes down to 2s. 6d. I will go on cultivating whether there is a railway or not. I must put the men and horses to work. With a railway I would do better nll round. I snppose it would benefit me £100 a year, because I could send my produce away when it suited me, iustead of having to cart by road at unsuitable times. I eould then sell when it would pay me best. 'J'he witness withdrew.

John 9unningham, sworn and examined. 242. To tlte. Chairman.-I am a farmer, residing at Mitchell's Hill, near Mr. Boyle's. I have been there 23 years. I have 1,500 acres freehold, 400 leasehold, and 920 acres on the share principle, rented from private persons on the Rich A von estate. I culti vate 840 acres on the rented land-none on the free­ hold.'. I have llad the bulk of the latter under cultivation at some time, which has improved the grazing CapaCity of the land. I averaged about 600 acres on the freehold property till I took the Rich A von land. I get on the average about three bags to tho acre. The lowest price I got for it was Is. 8d. a bushel. This year I have got 48. 6d. I send my produce to Melbourue and Geelong, sometimes to St•. Arnau,d, and sometimes to Cope Cope, never to Rupanyup. I am about 14 miles from Cope Cope, and 17 from St. Arnaud. The latter is best in the winter time. I keep sheep on the remainder of the run. I generally shear about 1,500, getting 27 to 30 bales, and sending it by rail. I rent the land from Mr. Guthrie. I gave him 2,880 bushels for 920 acres of land, and there is 10 per cent, deducted from that 920 acres fo!' growing timber. The rent is paid in kind; it is a lump snm in bushels. There are about 840 acres of actual crop. This year I had 716 bags of wheat, and 80 bags of oats, and 37 of English barley, and 50 tOllS of hay. We divided it between us because there was so little, but this year he got an extra price for his grain, so that it did not make much difference to him. This is the last year I have got it. I can give it up if I like. I am pl:tting it in al?ftin: It is witb5n 4 miles of the railway station at Cope Oope. I went there to be neal' raIlway commulllcatlOn, and to gIve my land a rest. I am goin'~ to fallow 700 acres of my own land at Mitchell's Hill this year. It has been five years out of crop. '" Tk:e f/Jilfl&8 WjtJ.@:6W. Adjourned. / . 26

(Taken at Nava1'1'e.) MONDAY, 16TH MARCH, 1896. blembers present: MR. CAMERON, in the Chair; The Hon. D. Melville, M.L.C., Mr. Burton, The Hon. E. Morey, l:f.L.C. . Mr. Harri!';, Mr. Trenwit.h. James Raeburn~ sworn and examined. 243. '1'0 the Ghairman.-I am It farmer, residing about 5 miles from Navarre. I hold 330 acres. I eultivate about 40 acres. I grow oats ami wheat, and about 8 aeres of vines and Ii of orchard and garden. I never cultivated more than 40 acres. 'When I have grown a crop there I have had 50 bushels of oats to the acre, and 21 bushels of wheat, and less on other oecasions, but never less than 20 of oats and 12 of wheat. St. Arnaud is my market; it is a trifle nearer than Stawell. If there were a railway I could cultivaie more. I have more land suitable for eultivation. There are 100 acres more that I could cllHivate. It is very' suitable ill my district ·for fruit-trees and vines, ami I should increase it if I could get my produce to market. Of course much depends on the price' of' produce. If it paid at all I should increase. About 38. would be It payillg price per bushel for wheat; Is. 6d. would not pay me; I never sohl any for that. I grew no wheat last year; it was all hay, 6 or 7 acres. Wh,at I sell of the hay I sell in St. Arnaud. It brings about £2 per ton 011 thc average. Off the G acres I had fl'om about 10 to U tons of h.ty.· Other scasons I have' had', more. The railway should be 10 or 12 miles away at tho outside, 80 that I can go in with a. load and back in a day. The line from Avoca to Rupanyup would suit me best, or to Millyip, but a direet line through between the Stawell !lnd the St. Arnaud lines. I should think if a line COllles from Avoca this far it will conti:r.ue northwards t,hat fal'. The line from Avoca to Navarre would suit my purpose, but I think it would be advisable to stop there. I do some dairying; milk from twelve to fifteen cows, A good portion of the year we make the butter, and send it to Stawell or St. Arnaud, and some portion of the season we send the milk to the creamery at N:1varre. . 244. To M-r. 1renwith.-In a ye..'u I make from half-a-tou to a ton of butter. If I continued ~'. making that much butter I conld still grow some more whe:1t. About halr'the land I have got would kee.p/ the cattle, along with the produee I should grow to feed them. Each eow averages from '1 lbs. to 6-(bs., per week; that would be 100 lbs. a week for twenty cows; that would be about 2~ tOilS per year. The. witneu tJJithdrettJ. George Ellen, sworn and examined. 245. To the Ghairman.-I am a farmer, residing about 4 miles from here, in the direction you have driven this morning. I hold iu my own right 320 acres. We have eultivated hitherto, on occasion, about. 130 acres, but about 200, acres of our land is available for cultivation and could be easily used for that purpose.if there were a railway. I grow wheat [tnd oats. We have had maize on o'ccasion and othel' vegetables th[tt grow well. We ha,e' not grown maize for corn, only [ts an experiment, and we firid it grows well. In former years we got from four to five and even six bags of wheat per acre. The last: three or four yeal's we have not put much in and have not had more than about three bags; but. that is on the old exhausted ground. That is the cause of ·the falling off. Weare gi ving it a spell for the last three or fotlr years, grazing it and putting manure on it occasionally. Our'nearest market is Stawell; that is 22 miles. We deal at Stawell in a general way. I think hend 25 tons a year by the rail way, ineluding the straw and the grain we have grown the last few years, and the hay. The lowest we have got for our grain has been Is. 8d. for wheat-that was very unremunerative for our labour. The lowest price for oats was about ls.-tlmt was at Stawell, after carting them. According to my calculation, it costs just one-tenth of our produce, no matter \vhether it is in pounds, hundred,veights, or tons-it is one-tenth to cart it to Stawell. 'We would continue to grow wheat at 28. Gd., and Is. 6d. for oats. We arc laying ourselves out in that direction to cultivate more, although the prices may not be much for it. I am already ploughing, and have got a consi(lerable area ,under the plougb alreatly, with the intention of increasing it, particularly now the genial rains have come, The line from Avoca up through Navarre and continuing northward would snit us best It would make a considerable difference in selling onr produce. "We would send everything to, the seaboard in that case, but I ha~e no doubt that many of our Stawcll merchants would have their stores ltnd plants convenient to us, and we should prefer to deal with t,hem in the meantime; otherwise we would send it direct to the seaboard. 'Ye have been always mulcted in the differcnce between the fl'eightage to the seaboard and Stuwell in ded uction from our price. We dairy about twenty cows. "Ve bring the milk to the creamery. 'Vhen we made butter ourselves we made 2,200 lbs. That we sent to Stawell, besides private sales. On the 320 acres my family have been tile employes hitherto, but I think there shonld not be less than four employes during the year; that is to dairy and cultivate; one female for the dairy, and three men for the agricultural matters. . Tko witness withdrew. Thomas Edward Pennington, sworn and examined. 246. '/'0 the Ghain-~nan.-l am a farmer, residing at Paradise, about 5 miles from here northward. I have 2,900 acres. I cultivate ahout 25 acres, about 1,500 acres of which is suitable for cultivation. I am 20 miles from a railway station now; St. Arnaud is the nearest. We are on the main road. From St. Arnaud here it is 25 miles. I graze sheep. Our family owns 6,100 acres. We are all together. "Ye run about 5,000 sheep. W a send our wool to the St Arnaud railway station, selling it in Melbourne; 9 or 10 tons on the average. We do no dairying and scll 110 farm produce. I wou I d prefer a line from Avoca to Navarre if there were any choice of gctting a through line j that is, in the directiou of Rupanyup to Miuyip. If the railway went west of those hills it would be no nearer to me. The St. ATllaud and Rupanyup lille would be no benefit to 11B in this part. A linc was navor surveyed in the direction of Tottington. The line was Avoca to Rupanyup.. That was the only one surveyed in this part. It wonld 5JL

T. E. Pennington, 27 16th March, 1896. be within 5 miles of me. The nearest point from Avoca to Rupanyup we could touch would be 17 miles away, aud we might as well go on to St. Arnaud as go there. That line would be no benefit to us here. H we had a line within 5 miles of us I would let a lot of tbe laud ou the share system. That would pay better than running sheep. The land is good t(Hvards Bolangum. It is as good as about here. This land is good for: cultivation, and I have as good on my laud. 247. To M'l'. Tren-with.-It'the line stopped here I do llotthink it would pay from Avoca. If there were a line within easy distance of me I would let land 011 the share system. It pays better thuuculti­ vating it yourself. The people take all the risk and you take none if you let it. Of the 6,000 acres we hold there are about 2,000 acres fitte(l for agriculture. The rest is good grazing land; it is mixed land. In the locality of Paradise there is a proportion of good land, but to the left of that, all into there is agricultural land right up to Beazley's Bridge, within a mile or two of St. Arnaud. The bulk of that is all agricultural lang. ' , 248. To the Ghairman.-I have not tried the share system, but I know those who havc. It is one­ third as a rule; that is, that I would get one-third. Then you stand in with them whether they have a good crop or a bad onc. . 249. To the lIon. E. llforey.-The man taking it finds everything. I take one-third profit for holding the land. If wheat is a good price it pays well; if not, you don't get mnch. ' 250. To M'l'. l'ren-with .. -My land averages about 1 tOll to the acre. I do not grow any wheat­ that is, during four seasons, the last three or four years. I think 1 ton to the acre is a fair average. 251. To M'l'. Harris.-I am 20 miles from St. Arnaud. The distance has been one reason why I have not cultivated. There is a lot of land fit for rnnning sheep on, and we might as well run sheep all over it. There are five of us in the family-two brothers, a sister, mother, and myself. The areas about he1'e are from 250 to 300 acres. It is land partly fit for agriculture aud partly for grazing. Most of it is fit for grazing. At the time that Mr. Rennick was here last the population from Avoca to here was 96 to the mile. ' . 252. To the lIon. E. Morey.-In letting the land on shares the owner would have to clear the land, not to put the plough in. That could be done for from 128. 6d. to 158. an acre. The timber is all dry. The bulk of the cultivation land is when you get to Paradise from the left. 253. To the Ghailrman.-We have not collected statistics locally this time. We did so when the last Committee came round, and we gave them to Mr. Rennick. Since then a good deal of mining has taken place here at Barkly and Landsborough, and there is a lot of country on the John Bull that is agricultural land, and this would be the nearest railway for them. . 254. To M'l'. Harris.-The timbel"is ironbark,box, and gum. It is not carted away at present; it is too far from a railway. The witne88 withdrew.

John Arthur Stuart, sworn and examined. 255. To the Ghailrman.-I am postmaster at Navarre. I hold about 40 acres personally in the township. I cultivate a portion of it for my own stock. I have been in' the district nearly 26 years. I came in 1870. Stawell is the nearest railway station. St. Arnaud is supposed to be a mile further- 26 miles. Stawell is the best road. The Hon. Mr. McCulloch, of Woodlande, authorized me to state he was prepared to put thousands of acres under cultivation, either by leasing it or letting it out. Last year, with a bad season, there were seven bags of wheat to the acre taken off land about here. Mr. McCulloch's property touches ou the proposed line. All the land he would let would not be 5 miles from the line as now surveyed, even taking the whole of the country through. I understand yon are here to see the differ­ ence between the three lines specified-the Glenorchy to Marnoo and the cross line. It was not my intention to speak against those lines, still I notice that Mr. Ogden, last Saturday, said the cross line would be preferable to a line straight through from Avoca, stating that no ground was any good until they reached Marnoo. That is a farce on the face of it. We have always grown thoroughly good crops. We have one farmer present who owns a considerable quantity of land. He has been here ;1O yeara, and can speak from experience. To cart from here to Stawell is the difficulty; and the distance is too great to make it payable to cultivate the land. That is one of our chief reaS0118 for going into a creamery. While our land is Imitable for cultivation we are too far from the market. You lose so much in the carting that it does not pay. You can only make two trips a week from here to Stawell with hay, and you deliver it aL£2 a ton. Yon cannot make it a paying concern. That is on aceount of the distance .. The roads are very fair indeed. 256. To __ilf'l'. Trenwith.-Thc Hon.Mr. McCulloch has 55,000 acres here. It stretches to Green's Creek. We could inclllde that in this line. All that area would be within 10 miles of the line. His nearest property, his homestead, is now within 9 all(lIO miles of the Avoca to Ararat railway. I am not speaking in the interests of Mr. McCulloch, but pointing out the nature of the land here, and that this land cannot be thrown open for cultivation. I canuot say how mnch land Mr. McCulloch cultivates, or whether 11e culti\"ates any. It was only when on a visit to Melbourne Borne years ago that he authorized me to state that. I have been at his homestead. I did not see any cultivation except for the use of his stock. l'h{J witne8s withdl·ew.

David Davies, sworn and examined. 257. To the Ghairman.-I am one of the oldest farmers about here. I hold 1,050 acres here, free­ hold. I cultivate about 150 acres, never more than that. I grow oats, wheat, and barley. I do not think this district could be beaten for wheat growing; there is a good e]ay bottom for miles. Some of the land has been nnder culti vation for over 40 years. Oats and barley grow well. We get as a rule about 20 bushcls of wheat to the acre; one year I' had 50 bushels to the acre, but only one year in 35 years. Oats from 16 to 20 in ordinary years. I have grown 50 bushels of oats to the acre. Take it on the average, you may say 30 bushels of oats. Barley grows very well, but we are subject to frosts a good bit, and they affect barley more than the other, so we do not deal in it. The crops averaged 20 to 30 bushels the last three years. I send my produce to Stawell.. The average price the last three years has been very low-Is. a bushel for oats, and about Is. 9d. to 2e. and 2s. 6d. for wheat. That does not pay me. David Davies, 16th March, 1800. 28

'We must continue to' do somethiug even at that price. Now, by mixing it up-sheep, dairying, and different things-we get throngh the best way we can. W 0 would not mind if the railway were 10 miles away. That would suit all parties for carting and getting back in one day. The Avoca linc would be the best for me. We send off' a good mnny tOllS from the farm in the course of the year. We milk about 40 cows. We bring the milk to the ereamery. The creamery is a company, and we are nearly all sbare­ 'holders in it. We joined it with the St,ll,well bnttor factory, and the eream goes from here to there., I do not think the people about here have I;'hares,' nor in the butter factory. Nothing has been paying of late years; but dairying pays as well as most things, as well as cultivation, 11nless the prices get better. The creamery has been started for a ,Y.elU and a half. Before that I was making butter,: but.1 was not milking so many cows then-about twelve to fifteen. 1 keep froq! about 1,000 to 1,500 sheep. I have also some horses. It is good sheep country-over a she6p to the acre. 258. To Mr. Trenwith.-Nearly all of our land is suitable cultivation. 0 One shilling and nine- pence is the lowest I have received fo!' wheo.t. If the price still remained at that, and t,here were a railway I would cultivate, if it paid me better to grow wheat. I do no't think Is. 9d. It bushel would induce anyone to cultivate, no matter how near the railway was. About 28. 6d. would be 'the lo\\'est that would pay wherever the railway was, and I do not think you will see it much under 28. 6d. fOl'some time. 259. To the Chaiq·man.-I know the count,ry between this and Wallaloo. There is good country between here and Wallaloo. The Wallaloo people promised to join this railway; they pledged themselves to it; at first they were greatly in favour of this liue, and always have been. They say they go to Stawell for no purpose when this line goes right through their property.. They said that to yonI' Committee because they wanted to make sure of tllat line, and they are not sure of this. 260. To Mr. Trenrvitli.-J. cannot say whether that is the general character of the evicleuce you got there. I know I hitve talked to some of the leading men at Wallaloo, and they are more .for this line if they could get it. They pledged themselves to this line before this othei' came in vogue. This line l)rings them 80 mn,ch nearer the seaboard. lhave not been to a meeting to decide which line i~ t,he be~t. Tlbe witness withdrew. John Smith, sworn and examined. 261. To the Chairman.-1 am a farmer, living 2 miles from Nll.vltl're. I hold 1,200 acres free- /_.- -,,­ hold, besides renting about 1,000 acres from the Crown. It is 8 or 10 miles hom my own prop'erty:'" It was a green block. It is not good lanu, not fit for cultivation. It is hilly. It is a timber reserve. I cultivate over 100 acres of iny own propert.y. That is the most at a time. I grow oats and wheat, and sometimes barley for green feed. Sometimes I grow about 50 or 60 acres and the remaiucler of oats. Sometimes I get about 16 bllshels to the fl,cre for a pretty good crop of wheat" and sometimes about 25 or, 30 of oats. I take my produce to Stawell, and Bometimesto Avoca, wherever I get the best price. I am 30 miles from Avoca and 25 from Stawell. Stawell is the best road. It is a hard road to both, bnt the roads are hilly to Avoca, and the roads are not made there. You need not fear getting stuck on their roads. One year I sold to an Avoca firm 200 tons of hay. .They came up here and took it away them- selves. It was !lot all off my land. I sold for two parties besides myself. It would be 60 or 70 tons off my own laml, off about 25 aCt'es: It runs 2 tons oj' hay to the acre; sometimes, in a good year, abont 3. I dairy. We milk about twent,y cows now. I do not sell tile milk to the creamery, because I do not like the way they are going on. I was a director in the creamery, and could not see it. They were speJlding too much mOlley Oll it. We make our own but.ter and sell it at Stawell. I sell abont 25 lbs. per week. 262. To JYlr. Trenwith.-We use a good bit of butter at home-9 Ibs. or 10 Ibs. ~ week. If I got a better price I would send the butter to Melbourne. . 263. To Mr. Han'is.-The distance from a railway is the only reason I do not cultivate more. This year I put in 80 acres. I had to stop it because there is nothing for it. Last year they wanted hay for 30s. a ton, and it would not pay to cnt., I will be satisfied with a railway if I get to within 15 miles. 264: To tlte Hon. E. Morey.-I could not cultiv:ate the 1,2QO acres. It is all fairly good land, fit for the plough. The witness withdrew. Alexan,der Murray, sworn and ex:amined: 265. To the Ghairman.-l am a farmer, residing at Paradise, about 6 milcs from here, 18 miles from St. Arnaud. My hrother and I hold nearly 1,400 acres between 1.1S. We work in partnership. We have farmed very little the last lew years; only sufficient for our own use. We nse the land for grazing sheep. We have only between 700 and 800 sheep at present, but it generally Tuns an acre and a halI to n sheep. If had a railway within 6 miles I 'would' cultivate 400 01' 500 acres of my land. It wonld depend on the price or grain. If wheat 'were to bc worth from 28. 6d. to 38., a bushel we would cnlti vate it oUl'selyes. We have not tried the share system. I think it oomes out very well for both parties if they get a fair crop. If a man has to employ a lot of labour and gets a poor crop he is out of pocket, whereas, on the share system he only loses the use of the land, and the people lose their labour. Whethel' it pays them is their look out. As to the most of the land in this neighbourhood there has not bcen a great deal of culti­ vation done on accoun,t of the land being timbcred cOllntry. 'Where the timber is in the green state it is pretty expensive to clear it fit for cultivation. The first we cleared twelve years ago cost £3 an acre. Since that, about four years ago, I got similar land cleared for ab011t £1 an acre. Now, when the timber is much dec~yed, I dare say it would be done for 12s. an acre. ' . 266. Tp the lIon. E. 1110re.71.-The timber burns easily if it is dry. There is a great difference between clearing it now and when it was green. That is how it is there has not becn a great deal of cultivation done in this neighbourhood. 267. 1'0 M~·. T1·enwith.-We selected the land, and pnrclI3sed some from selectors, and some from the Crown. 268. To Mr. I-Ia1·ris.-I call1lot think of anything else that the Committee ought to know. 269. To 11fr. Trenwith.-I have not been along that road to Avoca. The witne811 withdrew. Adjourned. 29

(Taken dt Frenc'AmarlS.) TUESDAY, 17TH MARCHI 1896. Members present: lYlR. CAMERON; in the Chair; The Hon. b. Melville, M.L.C., Mr. Burton, The Hon. E. Morey, M.L.C. Mr. Harris, Mr. Trenwith. John Hugh McLeod, sworli and examined. 270. 1'0 the Ghai1·man.-I am a resident of Barkly, and am appointed by my neighbours to give evidence to-day. I am a State-school teacher. I have been in this district for over six years. Barkly commences about half.a-mile from here. The nearest way to a railway for us by road is nearly 30 miles -to Avoca. It is about 24 miles from here to Avoca. "V'e go on from here 8 miles to the far eud of Baddy. The Avoca to Navarre is the only line that will be of uEie to us. We fire a community at Barkly of small farmets; having holdings ranging from 20 to 820 acres. We have grown wheat, oats, barley, maize, and potatoes, but at the prices during the last three or four years, and the distance from the rail­ way; it does hOt pay to grow cereals. We principally depend on fruit and dairy produce, so a railway means prosperity and progress; and a great increase of population"--'without it, a miserable struggle for existence. Thei'e will be a good traffic in the fruit season, becanse the area under cultivation will be much increased with the railway. Now we have to hawk it away with a trap aud horse to the market, where, with it railway, we would bring it up in the mortlilig and be back to our work. Further on, past Barkly, we eictetld like an extensive village settlement, consisting of splitters, labourers, miners, and shearers. Further on Sandy Creek eommences, where there are large farmers who cultivate considerably, and graziers; and all tne produce for 15 miles north from here would come here. It would be about the same distance from St. Arnaud up here. There will be a heavy traffic in timber from here. It is an extensive forest with an almost exhaustless supply of timber, and there would be a very heavy traffic in timber from its proximity 1\ ~ .. -~ to Avoca, Maryborough, Talbot, Carisbrook, Majol'cu; CrM\vick, and Allendale. You had the evidence of 'a:-m~ng manager at St. Arnaud, that one claim required so much timber. This is closer to St. Arnaud than the other lines for that. There is liot milch tirhbet at Cnrisbreok and Talbot; in fact, carters with horses take a good many props to Maryborough. On the other side of the range and further on there has been an extensive trade in timber with carters already. ~nd again, all along at easy points from the line here; there are splendid slate quarries which will eventually. be extensively used, which the railway will hurry on. I am uot ail expert, but from what I have heard it is excellent slate for pavements and for roofing houses. It is found at several easy points from the rAHway. It has boon worked at Percydale all along the mountains. In fact; they say there is better stone in this mountain here than in any part of the line. I can say that the line woiIld be easily constructed, because ballast could be got all along the line, and also the sleepers. If you give it to us to make 011 the gang system, there are a good many labourers who would do large parts of it very cheaply. 271. '1'0 the Hon . .D. il1elville.-My school has an average of 35. In every village there is a school. I am several miles from the nearest sehool-that is Navarre. The number of scholars in my school is increasing. It has always been abont the sarhe; it is a 30 to 50 schaal. The witness withd1'ew,

John Cheeseman, sworn and examined. 272. Po the Chailrman.-I am a storekeeper.. I reside at Barkly. It is 3 miles from here. I may !lRy I prepared the iHatistics as to the line. The population ",·ithin 7 miles is about 300. In that area .W.6 have profliiced wheat, oats; ahd everything; hut in small quantities, because the settlers ha.ve small lots.of lund. The; have all oeen miners, and have small areas. They have never been able to get more tha!l 20 acres o· garden. They went iii for wheat-grow}ng formerly, when there was not the competitiah there is now. A.t ohe time they could grow wheat and cart it to any distance, but now it is grown ~n shch large qhantities in the Mallee they cahftot compete. They grow about fi VEl bags to the acre.. It paid them very well then, because they got it good price for their prodnce. Nearly every person here has a garden.. ~.eannot say.!:lOw many acres are under fruit; I should say 250. _ 273. To .Mr. Trenwitk.-The average size of the gataens wOhld be about 5 acres. They make use of 20 ~cres in a general way; so 11lIich for erop ana so much for hay. . 274. Po the Gl.airman.-;-I cannot say how many, trees they plant to the acre, or how many bushels to the tree 'they get. I have been personally connected With mining all my life. I receive by arays at my store about 4 tons a month. There are two stores, ana the other store does about the same or a lhtie more.-[ The joitowinu statistics as to the jiroposed line we l~anded in :-j

Average Orchards Sumtnary of Area of Numoerin Number of Wattle Yield of Yield of Sta.tistics. Holdings. under Graih Ri~~:~~~~. Mid Household. and Hay. and Cattle. Sheep. Bark. Vineyards. Grain. Hay. ------~--- --<--- Acres. Acres. Tons. Acres. Busheis. Tons. Leltton to Avoca 26,2io ~85 i,423 1,887 19,900 ... Percydale ... 18,189 422 1,769 1,020 4,350 216 51 Moonambel ... 17,916 446 1,897 2,160 11,900 { Small 63 Darkly and a,2Q4 219 888~ 1,200 2,407 quantity } 421"I} 185,155 9,798 Frenchmans Navarre ••• 50,880 455 12,634- 1,835 36,861 ... 80 Landsborough ... 8,189 474 793 4,099 ...... 33

The output of slate is given in Mr. WarilldW's sta.tement, but tbe slate 4lial'nea at J?ercydl>le !lalre. ceased operatIons for a ,'ery long time. Ph'~'B~. 30

George Simpson, sworn and examined. 275. To the·Cltairrnan.-I am a butch'er and' farmer. I have in freehold and leasehold over 1,200 acres. I reside 3 miles from bere. 'Ihe principnJ part of my land is at, Parailise, 5 miles north of Navarre. I principally graze sheep and cattle. I usually shear 800 sheep. I dairy a little, not enough to supply the railway with anything mnch. I cultivate 10 acres. I have 80 acres cleared now for cultivation. I intend ploughing it this year and piltting in oats. There is not much cultivation i~ that part of Paradise. Grain, in thTat locality has yielded as high. as six .bags of wheat t9 the acre. If there is a rail way from AvoCll to Navarre I would send to that rmlway ; 1t ,vould be near.er than any other. 276. 1'0 the Hon. D. fflelviUe.-I reside here principally. 'My business is at Barkly, and my farm at Navarre. I cannot say how lllany people are in Paradise altogether. They are farming and grazing. In the whole of Paradise there are about 400 altogether. 1'he witne88 withd1''3w.

John Schmidt, sworn and examined. 277. To the Chairman.-I am a blacksmith, at Navarre; I also farm. My land is ab,outhalf~a-mile down here. I have 40 'acres freehold and about 400 .leased from the Crown.

The wl'tn~88 withdrew. /~-. Jonathan Marland, SWOl:n and examined. ,-- , 280. To the Chairrnan.-I am a farmer and digger. I have 250 acres of freehold and 100 acres of leasehold. I am leasing from the Crown. Last year I had about 40 acres under cultivation. I grow oats.' I got six bags to the acre last year, and ten bags the year before. I sold it principally locally. Getting it to market is the obstacle. It is too fm' away. I have to depend on the local buyers. Last year I got 3s, ,6d .. a bag. I would ll!tv,e got about 78. if I sent it 40 or 60 or 100 miles away byritil ; about 2s. 9d; a bushel. I s110uld cultivate more even at 48. a bag if there were a railway, because it is the only thing ffiJ land is suitable for. I can do better on it at that price than grazil1g. It is all good cultivation land. It has beeu heavily timbered land, but it is all cleared. Within a radius of 7 miles I should say there are under cultivation about 1,000 acres. That is up Frenchmans, Navarre, and Barkly. Navarre is about 7~ miles from here. I could not say exactly. 281. To 11fr. Ifal'ris.-I saw the statistics at the time they were taken. I believe some were collected by myself. I think that. Edwin Humphrey collected them. The witness u:ithr,l,·ew .

•Joseph \Veir, sworn and examined. 282. To the Chairman.-I am a mining manager. I cannot say what are the number of mines ill mylocality. At the mine where I am there are about twenty. It is the Barkly Lead Gold }1ining Company, alluvial. I have bcen here only about t1)ree months. It has bee~l a company about six months. As far as I can judge by my own impressions, and from what I can hear, I think it' is likely to be a permanent neld. I think in six months hence there will be a good many at work. We have not rls!3n to' the'wasIl'and got on the gold yet. We expect to in the middle of next week. We require It good deal of timber. We do not have to go very far. The timber is let by contract, and, according to the prices, t11ey must get it very conveniently. They might get better timbet· by rail, ,if there were a railway; but we 'put' up wit.h what we can get. We are not looking for first-class timber now. Timber woulll not be' auy consideration for a rail,,-ay. The only consideration would be the population and the' mines. When we get on the gold I should think we could employ 100 men. 283. 'To }tlr. Trenwith.-I mean the timber would be of no consideration as far as my mine is concerne'd. ' I do not know anything about the district generally. 284. To Mr. Ifa1·ris.-Before the Barkly started there was no work: as far as mining goes, from what I can learn, excepting a few.settlers who were putting in 'their spare time ill the alluvial diggings. There were no men employed. The land is taken up in leases for miles ahead. The mining is all alluvial about here. The past results have been very good. The only reason the field has been left so long is because there was only a co-operll;tive party of miners, and when they came to the gold the water flooded them. It required machinery, and small parties could not do it. 285. To Mr. Trenwith.-:-The country is taken up for miles ahead in leaseholds by parties who are not working. They are waiting for us to get the gold. When we once touch the gold they will all start. They are towards Napier and that way. The mitn-e88 withclrew.

George Emerson, sworn and exa!llined. 21:\6. 1'0 the Chairman.-l ~m a farmer, residing in Barkly, about 4 miles from here. I hold 340 acres. It is selected under the 19th section. I have only just selected lately 213 acres, but the other I have had under cultivation, about 30 acres. I have been growing oats and wheat. :Mine is not such good land 55

George" Emerson, 31 17th),Iarch, 1896.

as, the other farmers, but the last crop I had in went three and a half to four bags of w heat to the acre, but there have been seven and eight to the acre grown at Barkly. As to the timber, I have been spliLting and working in the bush most of my time, and there is mOlley in'it. I made, and could still make, a good living cutting sleepers. There are irollbark and black box, and there are sleeper timbers aml prop timberil too. Laths can be got for mines split out of stringybark and messmate. There is a good qu::mtity of it, and the sides of the ranges where all the best timber is, the laths are feet, and a man could split 100 laths a day. T4e price of laths in Barkly is 21 s. pcr hundred, that was delivered at the mine. I went illto the lath-cutting myself. They (Ire paying 12s. 6<1. per' hnndred at the mine. There is a great deal of timber here, and if there were a railway from Ayoca to Nayarre there would be a lot of other timber sent to the other mines, as Mr. McLcod said, enough to employ a lot of men. 1 have split sleepers for the railway. I was splitting them at the time the~e was a good rush. Lately I ItliYC not split any bec!l.w:!e they are a low price, and you have to go a long way to got them. They are splitting them now at 2s. 3d. and carting them to the rail­ way, 24 miles from here, at that price. If we had a railway you coulll judge what we could do them at, as they had to empl

Jonathan Marland, further examined. 292. To the Ghai'rman.,-I have been splitting both sleepers and rails here for the Government, and I know tile place is well adapted for timber-redgum, ironbark, and spotted box, which are approved by the Rail way Department. Sleep~r-cutting of all sorts runs from 28. 4d. to 28. 7d. delivered at AYoca, 24 miles from here. As to props, the Homebnsh men previol1sly used to their props from here. The cOlltract ran from l8s. Gd. to £1 pel' 100 feet for 8·in. timber. The cntter got fr0111 3s. 6d. to 46. per 100, and tile carter had the balance. 293. To the Hon. D. Nelville.-If tender:! were culled 10 deliver from here they would be dl'liv€l'ed 011 the liue Itbout 1s. apiece. The large sleepcl's arc 10 by 5 and the others 4 by 9. That makes II considerable difference in the cartage. It can be done about Is. apiece for the first 5 miles OInyaras, becanse there is a grent qU!tntity of spotted black box and iron bark. Redgum could be done as cheaply as the spotted box or irol1burk. 294. To the Hon. E. JJloN'y.-For the last contract for the laths at the claim here I was rather too high; I ,,'as £ 1 a hundred. .My contract WitS to deliver them. At the stump I got about 88. to 98. per 100; thnt is mcssmate ana sLl'ingybltl'k. Occasionally, if the tree 811itea, I would take the ironbark. 295. 1'0 the Hon. D. JJiel'Vllle.-Thcre is no saw-mill at the present time here, 296. To ~'+fr. Harris.-I have been here the last 35 ycars. The mit ness witl.drew. Adjourned.

(Taken at llfoonambel.)

Helll'Y Trood Stockman, sworn and examined. 297. To the Ghair?nan.-I am a storekeeper, residing at Moonambel. I haye been here 30 vears, I am 12 miles from a railway station. I was digging part of the time, and gave it up and" went contmeting. After that 1 kept a public-house, and then started a store, and have been at it ever since. It costs me lOs. a tOll to bring goods from the rairway at Avoca to here. I have not calculated how many tons I get up in a year. The population is 604 in the radills of 1foonambel and Warrenmang. It is village settle­ :nellt.s 'Yithollt th? I.lid of the Gove~Ilment. W~thin a radius of 3 miles from here th~ population are engaged HI farmmg and 1!ll11mg. Redhank IS about 4 miles frOlU herc. There were DO statistICS sent down in the first instance eOllcerning Hedbank, as they had an idea the Government were going to take the Une from Maryborough to a stump somewhere in the bnsh through Redbank; but they would be glad to see the H. T. Stoclm!li.ii, 11th Ma.tch, 1800. 32

railway come here now, and people beyond R,edbank also would. I have written out a statement as follows -'-[handing in the same]. :~" Mr. Chairman and Gentlemen-I have no doubt that you are all seized with particnlars concerning this part, as statistics have been supplied on several occasions. Since the last visit there have been three fresh reefs working. New Garden neef Company are getting out good payttble stone, expected to go over 2 OZS. to the ton, and carrying a great quantity of pyrites and other minemls. The company are sending 10 tons to Ballarat to be treated at the BOllshaw's Company's claim, who extract the gold from the quartz and pyrites. Two fresh alluvial leads have been opened, and are working with payable results. A quarry within a mile of tl.1tl proposed line of railway with good slate, which Melbourne experts have pronoilliced first-cla.ss and Bupenor to the Percydale slate. As regards the line between here and Avoca, distance to be made about 10 miles, no bridge to be built over Avoca River, as the line would start on this side of bridge, very level country; ballast all along the line, being splendid sntface gravel, of good binding matei'ial. The whole·of the timber required fot the said line can be obtained at very easy distances along the line to Navarre. I have not the slightest doubt that the 10 miles between here and Avoca would cOBt less than any line that has been made in ,the colony, very little bridge timber required, pnncipaliy earthworks, which would furnish a great amount of labour for the unemployed. This portion of the line would serve the inhabitants Of Moonambel, Redbank, vVarrenmang, Cherry tree Creek, Moyreisk, Natte Yallock, Smoky Creek, Long Gully, and Donkey Hill, all studded with fnrms, and furthest distance froni this line of railway about 10 miles." "Ve hav~ splendid timber in the ranges here. We got out timber for the Natte Yallock bridge, and·hpndreds of sleepel's have been split about liere for other railway lines. I am certain there is sufficient timbei' t~e)'e to provide sleepers from Avoca to Navarre. The line comes from the Avoca River and branches in to:wards Amphitheatre on towards Ararat. This line would branch out further. There is a bridge across the river going towards Amphitheatre, and you start from here and join it. There is no bridge required in building It liue from A voca to here. 298. 1'0 ~ilf.r. Trenlvillt.-'-As to as being it cheap line, I think it will be as cheap as the line made, say, to Birchip. Thete there is It certain amount of earthwork. The earthworks requite a waterway for ,the floods. There are no cllttings between here and Avoca, and no embankmeuts. The only place for a culvert would be across the Middle Creek. There are It few rises between here and Avoca, but not to any great extent. There is no gi'eat depth of' ciittings, The' reason I state that is that the ballast could be _-~-. got all along" the ]!ile.. Most of those rail,,'ays have been made with the stuff from the claims, whi~~' soaked the water III and helped to rot the sleepers. I have been all along the surveyed route from he1'.£1;o Avoca, where you CQuid get this surface gravel, quartz. and ironstone. After that has set, the whole of that line will beeome a solid body, ",vith the sleepers fixed in it. Between here and Av()ca it IS patchy for agriculture, but it is fairly good. There have been some very good erops got here, and this year sevetal farmers had fine erops of hay when it was not to be got elsewhere . . 299. The country-we lu~ve seen is flOmewhat broken country ?-I have not been along the line npwards, only from here to Avoca. The gravel I speak of is along the line in places. It is not all gravel. I ,think there is sufficient to ballast the line; The granl is along the line a considerable part of the way, and I contend it is far bot tel' than the gravel used by the Government for filling, which has been taken from claims. You can plough that ground up even with the gravel in and grow potatoes, because there is a good subsoil under it. 300. To the Hon. E. 1110re,1/.-There is plenty of good timber between Navarre and Avoca. There is some between here and Avoca, at the back, where YOll could not· see it from the road; it is in the ranges. There w~s a saw-mill here, and I believe they would start again if there were a railway.' I think there is imfficiept timber to warrant anyone putting a mill up; The timber is messmate, stringy bark, bluegull1, and i'eclgum...... 301. To ihe Hon. D. lYlelville.-,-,We have It soap factory; it has beel! here for years-Kelsalljs. He sold it to the man who has it now. 302. To J.llr; Har~is."""'The soap factory sends soap to Stawell, Landsborongh, Frenchmans, Napier, Redbank, Maryborough, and Talbot. I ca.nnot give the output. ' 303. To Mi'. Trenwith.-There are only two or three hands employed. 304. l To c}fr. Harris.-I refer to various places the line would serve; they are agricultural ai'eas. They have 320 acres downwards. They are farming--:-BolUe growing sheep, some caule, ahd .some also growing cereals. One of the reefs referred to is the N e\v Garden Reef and Slailghter-yard; and there is a tunnel through the range, and the "Vaterloo. One is a no-liability company, but neither of the others . has been floated into Ii compaily; .7'hey had been worked before, but they were beateu out by the water. That was a Sta1vell company. Tney had found gold in the stone at that point, hut the water ,vas too strong. 1.'he Waterloo took down sorlie stone, and it went an ounce to the ton, but they paid lIs for carting, and lOs. for crushing, so that they did not care to do it. They want a portable batt,ery. Apart from those reefs t.here are two alluvial leads. One has been traced for 2 miles, and comes otH into private property about 2~ miles from here, and they worked it nfterwanls; but it is stopped by the land being taken up. Those leads are entirely new leads. Taking the quartz reefs and the leads together, I cannot say how many men will pe employed. A Melbourne expert werit up and looked at the slate quarry, and he said he was going to get a party to open up the slates. He had a piece he was taking to Melbourne, hut one of the men broke it, and he could not get thf\ others to go into it. He says it is It far better slate than the Percydale, and that it would do for tiles. . 304A. To JJ:[r. Trenwith.-The :2 GiS. to the toil I spoke of was merely an estimate; they are going to crush 10 tons. " 305. '1'0 Mr. Barris.-It was partly an estiniate from the appeitrallce of the stone, and partly from testing a small amount. The witne88 withdrew.

William Anderson Adams, swor.n and examinetl. J06. To thfl Chairman.~I am a. grazier and vine-grower, residing a mile and a half from here, at MOl111tiln Creek. I hold 6,300 acres of freehold. Last· year I had' only 180 acres under cultivation, and a vineyard of 70 acres. The cultivation was oats and hay. I had it on shares, rented to a man who took ao. much, and I took BO mueh for my. own use. He sold his share. l' got one-fourth. It was a .very 57

W. A.-Ada,ms, 17th M~rch, 1896.

poor crop last year, not more than half-a-to!)., to th~ acre. "-IB/mt was not the average yield of the country. I think it paid the man; he seemed'satisfied.' Te:tnnot say what he obtained for the hay; £4 a ton or something like that. I got ,£:2 ,an aer!,) {or ,my ~P!U:<:l., , T1mt, i~,.,one acre out of every foul'. 307. To Mr. TI·enwith.-Over: the whole 'area ,1 practicaJly'got,'i0s. a ton, and the farmer got three- fourths. ". ' '.'" \ " 308. To the Cl.airman.--I found nothing at 'all' foj·the n,lan. He does everything. He has 340 acres. I do not kno'\r whether he sohl,Jlis pqr~io}l:qrJ!~t.~:If;:hEl,did he would get about £4 an acre, but it was not an average crop. ,The a,v:eI".ige crop would:be fnll~' a h,ll,l to ~ht;.1Lcr\l, . .. . . , 309. To Jl1r. T7·mwitlt.-If' it were grown llCf\l it would Flet~)een tdAvoca:The i)rice ~llere would have heen about our IlI'ice., It if' S'miles to AYot~n fn1m my place. ""!'t'is atvei·y go'o'l'road. If there were a railway herc I would send by'it,'as it would be nweh closN. 310. To the ChcLirman.-If.the' railway were ,2, lpiles' from me I wonld send by rail. If there was not much L wonld load it on the waggon and Hend it by nii!. I have 70, acres under vine~. I hl1ve had 1m If of it planted abont seyim. years. Half of it is in full bearing-between 30 and 40 acres. I make wine with it. I wanttb speak of the suitability 0,£ the soil fot vine-growing more than of any­ kind of farming. It has a fine subsoil, and suits vines extremely well. I expect 8,000 gallons this year. That wonld be 80,000 lbs. weight, ana that with what I have in vat would be 40 tons of wine, next year, and of course it increases. I will get 100 tOil'S of wine in a few years. It goes on increasing. I have 70 acres in now, and it gradually goes on a little, producing a little more every year. 1. can sell my wine p'retty well in Melboume. I have gelJerally got ii'om Is. 3,1. for new wines. up', to 48. a gallon for older wines. I have never sold allY thing under Is. 3d. My ground goes nearly all the' way to Avoca, aud if there were a railwl1Y I would cut it up and sell it. I know the country to the north, between Frenchmans and here. That ('ountry will grow vines very well. I wonld not call it very good for agriculture, except in the valleys, bnt for vines and fruit it is remarkably good. There' is) a fine deep snbsoil in this country, which is good for fruit and vines. Bet,,'een this and Redbank it is an immense hill. That is not good for much. On the other side there are valleys, and some along tbe creeks· that would grow fruit and vines .. ,The creeks this side run into the Avoca River. 311. l'ol'rfr. Trenwitlt.-As to the hill between here and Rec1bauk, there are no valleys coming _~ through the hill from Redhank side to this. You could geL round under the bill. It does not e'xtelld· the ~whole distance. ~ 312. To the Ghairman.-From Avoca to Itedbank you do not go over the hill at all. There is a: ridge which di vides the two roads. The valley extends in to the level country in to Avoca. This country would be of value to a railway. Redbank ,wonld join in about 3 TUiles from here, or they could como' over the end of this big hill and join at Moonambel. 313. To 111r. TrenUlith.-If they wen~ straight from Redbank to Avoca that would be about 15' miles if they (lid not come this way at all. It wonld be 5 or 6 miles to Redbank fro111 the point I spoke' of, and 3 miles from here. I would then be 9 miles from Avoca. There is a wide area of agricultural country-it is poor country. 314. To 1JIr'. Ha1'1·is.-There is a very large farm below me, of 500 or 600 acres, where they grew a lot of hay last year, and there are two 01' three smaller ones. The area of the others is small, about 300; acres.' I have done a great deal of grazing and agrieu1tnre. I tllink I have lost money by agriculture. I have always had to pay wages, and have come into these bad times with wheat at Is. 6d., but in ordinary good seasons I think agriculture would pay the, best. I think 10 miles is about a fair distance for a team to go in a dlly to a railway station and then back. :My place is 11 miles from the Avoca station; that is to(), far for people who wonld take up my land if I cut it up.. ' 315. To J.}Ir. Tremvitlt.-Abont £3 an aere would induee me to cut it up. It is not cleared. There is dead, rung timber on it. I bought from a man who had cleared all the land. 1. bought it nearly all in one block. I gave about £3 an acre for it. The timber generally is box, redgum, and whitegum. There is a great deal taken away to Avoca, and firewood to the claims, ouly a few props, because the timber is. all dead. The witness witAdrew_ , Wiliiam Henry W oohlridge, sworn and examined. 316. '1'0 the Chairman.-I am the mining manager of the New Garden Reef Company. It is situated a lit,He over n mile froln here in the ranges. We have Jltruck a nice, reef within tlte la5t few days •. We bave spent a good bit of money therc, and there is eyery prospect of having a nice little mine. 'Vc have spent oyer £2,000 on machinery-a winding and pumping plant. There has been a large amount of': very rieh quartz cmshe!1 from thero. We ~,I?"llgb~jt. f~,??,1.t.h~ p,11gillul proprietor and gave It large sllm for it. We followed on and sunk a new sbaft 'a'rtugethe'r;"' Just 'at"present we have sixteen men employed, bnt when the battery is up there will be 3,0 or 4q men at the very least. There is another reef just along­ side ours. It will go 4~ dwts. to the.ton.~ If these rangeil'lmd been, known in Ballarat a.s well as they are to us there would have been hundreds of men wqrking Oil them. We havo plenty.of timber alongside the reefs. The other timber for mines would have to come by rail from Avoca, from :\-fount Cole, because you. eanllot split this timber. I do not know anything about the forest in tLis direetion, but the timber I have seen is just firewood. 'Ve shonld use some hundreds of laths a week when the mille is properly opened .. up, and it wonld help to hring a la.rge popUlation here. Whon Ihis place (1orpes to be known there will b~, a large popUlation. It is a pity it was 110t kllown before. This place wus discovered tlS a gold-field 35 years ago. I bave known it only about six years, and I have be('11 up here and have gone into active operation .. within the last fifteen months. I think the pec pIe here 35 years ago. mnst have been asleop. It is a wonder ~ to me there is no cl'llshing plant bere. I Imve t() send the stuff to St. Arnaud. Ours is a company, and' we are going to put up a battery. The reef i.s well definc\l in our bottom, and is going down; alld our; water has not diminished any time. 'We keep two pumps 1'Il1luil)g all the time. .i 317. To flIr. Harris.-As far as I can sec, tlIe reef is going to take a,tnrn northward. It bus bee~ I coming clown south. We have got stOlle in both levels. The lead in the bottom level iH 18 or 20 inches, whcre we are now. We have an area of 2,000 feet altogether. Tbere are 4,000 feet altogether. . l'ke /L·itness witlHln;w.

RUPANYUP. D 34

(Tr:,k'en at:Avoca.y :; Z , ...... T;UESDAY,.· i 7TH' ~iARC:U; J896. , ' . '.

M,emberspresent ~ MR. CAMER(>N, in the Chair; The Hon; D. Melville; M.L.C., ' " . :nir~ Burton, The H~r:. E. Morey, ~tL.C. Mr. Harris, Mr. Trenwith. Edmund .Snell, sworn and-examined. 318 ..To the Chai1·man.-I am in business in Avoea, and am a ,J.P. in this bailiwick.' An extension from here to Rupanyup is what I wish to speak of. I may mention that we had a meeting last evening in Avoca, and the railway eommittee deputed me to meet you this evening, and to give evidence. The evidence that I am going to lay before you was. collected about six years ago, when the flying survey was made from here to Rupanyup, and we then got parties to go out--confidential' men, whom we could depend on-to make inquiries; to go about the 'district, and lay before us certain statistics of the quantity of land under cultivation, population, the area of the holdings, the horses and cattle, sheep, wattle bark, 'orchards, and vineyards in the district. From the information we got then we find that the area of holdings is 103,428 acres-we are not going beyond Navarre-and the population 4,500. The area under crop is 17,93! acres, thQ number of horses and cattle 10,285, sheep 70,000, of wattle bark there was 400 tons, and of orchards and vineyard,;; there were 500 acres. "Ve started from the :l10onambel route, just outside Avoea. "Ve would need to start within a reasonable distance from the pTesent railway station. I feel that yon could give me far more information than I can give you. ~ give you the best information I can.' Of course I may consider that these figures are not within 5 miles of Avoca. We have not much cultivation within that distance. Still we took those farms from the north of the Moonambel-road, between there and Percydn,le. 'Ve took the farms between here and there-between 5 tidIes out from here, and at Percy- , _., __ _ dttle. Percydale is 6 miles. The farms extE)nd right away on. I may mention that the timber for ~~ . . sleepers and bridges and the gravel for ballast is to be got all along the road, and if this line were n,!ade from Avoca to Hupanyup I think it would give a great impetus to mining, because quartz reefs are beginning to break out at Moonambel. And there is another large reef at Slaughter-yard; it is now being worked. I do not know whether they have struck gold yet. There are various other reefs there. I might also mention the slate' quarries at Pereydale. Before the burst-up of the land boom a great deal of slate went from,here. Now there is nothing going down; but we hope things ,viII improve, and that there will still be a demand for slate. Up about Prenchmans and Navarre there will be more land put urider cultivation if there is a chance of being nearer It raihyay station than they are at present. That is what keeps them back now-the distance they have to cart to a railway station. I unClerstand there is some vcry fine agrieultural land up ill this district that wonld he opened up. If you will notice on the ,map there is a great distance no railway runs ,over. There is a 3-chain road all the way from Avoca to Rupanyup. Perhaps you might not require to pUl'chase allY land at aH. The map of the fiying survey had no scale on it, and ,yC, could not go miuutely into it; but, we are under the impression that tho line from Avoca to Rupanyup will be nearer the sen board that any alternative rout.c. 'Ve are not sure of that. That is all I have to say. 319. '1'0 the Hon. D. Lllelville.-This eviclence is six years old. 320., By the Chailrman.-You say that the population is 4,500 ?-Yes. 32L noes that include the populat~on of Avoca ?-Yes, J expect it does. 322, '''here would you.have to separate that?-I think some of the gentlemen here conld give more information than I can. 323. You had an area nnder crop of 17,031 acre's. ,Are there 17,000 acres between the end of 5 miles from here and ~avarre ?-I do not think it. The shire secretary says that is correct. 324. If we take at right-angles with the proposed liue of railway, and take each sille of the line, are there 17,000 acres between the end and 6 miles of Navarre ?-Mr. Ross, the shire seeretary, thinks that is correct. At the same time, it is given only to the best of our belief. Oats, wheat, barley, and' pease are the usual crops of that 17,000 acres. J have nothing else to say. I met you this evening because I think there is every probability of oUr mining increasing, and I hoped our slate qnarries will improve, because it costs more to get it from Percydale to A yoca than from Avoca to Melbourne. , P/i,e witne88 withdrew.

John Ross, sworn and examined. 325. To tlte Chairman.-I am secretary to the shire of Avocn. I wns assistnnt secretary for a considerable Dumber of years, and W!1;S appointed secretary in I H94. I have been in thedist.rict ever since I was born. I have colleeted rates and valued land for one riding. I am rate-collector nmlvaluer for only (Jne riding. I did not collect rates where the proposed l'!l,ilway comes, or valne, except over a small portion of the telTitory. I kl)oW the flying Sl1lTey between Avoca and Navarre. 3~6. You must start the same distance from this station as you go on each side or the line in preparing the statistics. Starting 6 or 7 miles from this and taking the same number of miles on each side of the proposed line it would be a fair thing ?~-I should imagine H or 10 miles would be a fair thing. Those statistics were compiled five 01' six years ago. Fl'qm my know ledge of the country I should imagine that the cultivatioll.has increased. if anything. I am not .j3ure about the whole area. The popUlation, within that area is stated there as 4,500. That ineludes the popnlation of Avoca, which you could put down as 800 or 900 persons, in alld around Avoca, within about 4 miles; or 1,000 taken ont of it, beginning 8 miles away. It is about 27 miles from here to Navan:e. That would leave 19 after t.aking out the 8 from Avoca. I believe there are 3,500 in that area, em bracing the 17,931 acres of crop; that is, to the best of my belief I should ima,gine it is -true. I only know it from the ,statistlcs collected six years ago. I, have not compiled any lately. 59

John Ross} 35 17th March, 1896.

327. By lJfr. Trenwith.-Have you been over the lalld, and from your knowledge is the condition, the same as it was six years ago ?-:-o-I should think so. I believe that there may be a greater area under crop. 328. Do you believe there is. It seems so utterly unsatisfactory if you do not give us some gro'unds. You say the statistics were not collected by you. Can you say the statement of tbem will be found to be correct noW'. Yon must give some reason how your belief is founded, or else it will have no weight with us ~t all ?-I told you, to begin with, that I did not go Navarre or Moona~bel way. I visit those places occasionally. , 329. To .Jir. Harris.-I talk with ratepayers who come into the shire office to pay their mtes. 330. To the Chairman.-I wrote that down from the information in the office. I put down horses and cattleat 10,825. I cannot give yOll the names of those who own them. I canIlot teU you who owns the whole 70,000 sheep put down. There are two large sheepowners close to the line. Mr. Adams, of Mountain Creek, is one-I cannot tell you b.ow many sheep he owns; and Mr. Adamson, of Navarre, and many small farmers own sheep. 331. To bir. Harris.-The statistics were collected by the Ayoca district. There wele various railwav leaO"ues in the shire; aud the statistics were collected bv them, and summarized by me. "I have nothing fu~~her to say. • The witness withdrew.

Arthur Ebling, sworn and examined. 332. To the Chairman.-I am a produce dealer, residing at Avoca. I have been here 30 years. I know the country between Avoca and Navarre well, and on both sides. I do business right up to Navarre. I buy a lot o.f stuff. In reference to those statistics, there is more laLld occupied now than when they were compiled. All the c~)Untry between l\1oonambel and Navnrre is occupied now in " green" blocks., It is carrying sheep, and there are far more than there were six years a,go. The amount of wool sent from the Avoca station has increased considerably every year. I cannot tell the exact amount. The station- '.... master informed me there was an increase of some hundreds of 'bales last season. Starting 8 miles out, ''I-.rl.o not think the estimatecl population of 3,500 would be mucb. out. Of the amount said to be under cro~,500 acres, I should S,1Y there is a litt.le increase. I know the road well. Coming down from , Navarre to Avoca there is a vast Humber of acres "of cultivation Oll both silles, and the road all up the valleys is settled; yon get to Moonambel and Wattle Grove. 333. How much cultivation is there up the valley to Moonambel ?-Wills, Bruce hacl 350 acres under crop last year. Mr. Adams has 500 or 600 acres under crop nearly every year in the share system. The culti vatiOll is on the north-east sIde of the road, Oll the rIght-hand side coming up. It is all down the Mountain Creek. It is just this side of his house, and onup ::\:Iiddle Creek, up Warrenmang. There has beeu a lot of culti \'I1tioll the last two or three years. The hlilu is taken up under the 49th section, iu 20.acre blocks; and in the baek country it is all held under the Crown, and carrying sheep, llOt much cultivation. There is SOllle there on the creek frontage. :Mr. Adams has 500 or 600 acres to be Lrought under cultiation. and it will be in time. It is eight miles from here. I suppose he is satisfi,ed with his receipts from other sources, but Wills, Bruce are almost right ill his property. They had 400 tons off 350 acres, although it was a dry season. I think the share sy,st~1l1 has paid well. I am satisfied that culti­ vating the land would pay him, even if he said it did not pav him. I know he has his land let again on the share system. ' ' " 334. To l~fr. Trenwith.-There are over 17,000 acres under eulti vation. I just .!If.l.med two of the largest. There are scores of people between here and Navarre. It is the characteristic of the country that it is all little valleys. \ Mr. Evans, at Long Gully, cultivates 200 acres. Coutts, Smith, and Shiels, and a number of others have 100 acres and over every year. It· is broken country, with little hills, not. good for cultivation close to the ranges; when you get away from the ranges the ground is more level. I am a produce dealer, and purchase from the people all up to Navarre. A eouple of seasons ago at Navarre I bought 160 tous of hay from two people. Last year the price was so low: that it dill not pay them to cart it a distance. I am only ono 6f half-a-dozen who buy all along the valley. I cannot give an idea of how. much I bought; it would be only approximate. It would be very little information for you, because I am ()ply oue of half-a-dozen, and a number of the farmers scnd their stuff away direct to Melbourne. I cannot say how many tons come along the 'valley bet\1'een here and Navarre to the Avoca station. I dare say I put through 1,000 tons of hay every year, and that there would be 3,000 tons of produce altogether coming to this station. This is not the best station .for No,varre. The bulk of the stuff goes from there to Stawell. The furthest points from here that usnal\y come to the Avoca milway are Moonambel, Long Gully, Hed­ bank, Moyrcisk. Moyreisk is 14 or H:i miles from b.ere. Beyond that some of it comes this way, and some of it goes to StaweIlnnd St. Aruaut!. 335. To the Chuirm,an.-·The junction of the road that comes from Redbank is 7 or 8 miles from here. That is a junction on to the Moollambel-road. The witness withdrew.

Adjourned. '(,{Taken at$taU(ell.); ,I,. ,,' . .', . . ,; FRIDAY,l5TH M'AY/is96.'·

:,l· 111ernber s present ,: ,,', ! 't·

",4. I " '" '. MR. CAlIqmoN, in 'tne 'Clmir;' \ " ! rrhe HNatimuk to GOl'oke line-that the people would have to provide the lanU. I think tbe owners of the land would pay any loss-it would pay them to do so. The general feeling has been that they would give allY assistance that they could-it is only natural that they should. If they Have menns of moving tlle crop, it is better to pay a small rate on the line than not ha.ve it-~we illfcrrc

87

crop is very inferiol' I only get my share; my land is in different parts. I have land ,within three miles of a station now, and some within 8 miles. The furthest portion of my land 18 within 11 miles. I am fairly well sOHed myself. It would pay me, to enter into a bond to make up the loss tllat may" occur. If I had Jand within 10 miles of the liue it would pay to do it. If a station were 5 miles from my place I would go to the nearest station, and I would be prepared to pay my share of any loss in the expenses, because it would enhance the value of my land. I send my produce to Jung Jung, Dimboola, and other places. The land is not all in one plaee-'-my market is lVIinyip, Dimboola, and Jung Jung. On the proposed route of this line 1 have no land in fee simple, but I am interested in some. r might ha\'e land there at any time. There is no land along that route leasehold, it is almost all freehold. That is the earliest settlement up here-there may be a little leasehold, but very little. If we had known wheat was to have been such a good price this year, there would have been a far larger crop in. The price of wheat iu England has not affected us at all. If we had an extraordinary price we would have to tnk,; the market value, whatever it might be. It is a very 1'ery low price that will not pay for cultivation after the land is prepared. If we get 2s. 6d. a bushel it will pay us very well, but we have to cart the wheat 30 miles, and we can only cart 40 bags in fair weather. That takes away Is. a bushel from the price. The more you cultivate tImt land the better it is for grazing. Tlie creamery business !s only in its infancy-we have established three, or four creameries up there, and eighteen months ago we had nothing of the sort. The people here have settled llOmes. Then again we are a large population and we are wage eaTilers; in this town the most of them are min€rs and produce nothiug-thcir supplies have all to be bought, and they will get the benefit of this line. They 'will get their flOHr, bu Iter, and cheese cheaper. We have to pay a price now for dairy prodnce that we should not pay if we had any way of getting it easily. There is a magnificent flour-mill here-the best in the colony. 339. To tlte Hon. ~. Ilforey.-There are ahout 600 or 800miners employed, and wc have a popula­ tion of about 6,000 in the town; then there are the wood carters aud people connected with mining. 340. To tlte lIon. n. ~"ffelv£lle.-The land from Natimuk, 9 miles ont, is worthless, and the railways do not get freight there because the land is not good enough. J have a large quantity of land there,. and it is not fit for cultivation. The Committee did not see that land before the liue was built. The most worth- ...... --., '-les8 land in the colony is OIl that route. Tbere i~ some very good laud there for grass, but it will not grow crops,_ A comparison between the two routes is ridiculous. A~ a land-holder I will not agree to give a certain quantity of frcight pCI' annum for the next five years, whatever conditions exist. If we have fair seasons we can give any qunntity of freight, if we have not fair seasons we have not got it to give. I think the land-holders, large aud S1l1l11l, would undertake t,o give a certain amount of freight, or, failing the freight, the money. The money can be guaranteed, that is, a rate could be struck on the lantl so many miles on each side of the line. The land could be assessed, the same as with a trust. I am certain the owners of the land would pay a tllir rate to get a railway there, crop or no crop. I do lIOt see why a railway should not pay 4 per cent. on its cost if it were worked economically. If that were made a condition nnder the Act J think my neighbours would be agreeable t.o it. I do not see why they should not. You cannot compare coallllining witb farming; we depeml upon t.he seasons so much, but we wonld be willing to take an l.Iverfige rating to pay tho 4 l)er ceuL-we \vollld gi,'e 11 gnarantee. :34;1. 1'0 _Mr. Craven.-If the line WHe made from Glenorchy, I t.hink them are better prospects of its. paying than a line to Rupallyup. 1 think the plaile is so llJuch better that this cockspllr would pay. Rupallyup is tapped from Lubeck, MllI'toa, and 1Y1in}'ip, LUi this place is not tapped at all. Oue cockspur would not rob the other mnch; it might a litl;]e, but. very little. Rupanylip is situated about 11 miles fTom Minyip, 10 miles from Mmtoa, and 9 miles from .Lubeck, but here it is Hi or 20 miles from thc ncarest raHway, and tl1erc are 110 roads except bush tracks. The witness w-ithdrew. ],faynard Ord, sworn and examined. 342. To the Chairman.-I am a journalist. I am here particnl~rly as having been appointed by the joint committee of thc shire and conncil to get. statislics to lay before youI' Committee. I have been ill this town nearly 40 years. I know the conntl'y intimately about which I have to give information all the way to Maruoo and 1Vallaloo, not beyond that. In t.he first place, I wish to give evidence about a matterwhich has not been touched 11pOIl, that is, the timher supply for the mines. It is rather diificult to gei fnll statistics, but it is a very important matter to the mine-owBers hem to have a better supply of timber tban we have at present. The timber is getting very scarce, and the permanent supply that will have to be depended upon 1n the fnture will have to come mostly from a part that this railway line (the Glenorchy,alld Wallaloo extension) will serve, particnlarly the timber reserves near Cumpooee and the parish of 'Warngar. The nature of mining here l'entlers it necessary to have very heavy timber, mnch larger props than in any other part of the eolony. From one mine alone J have the written return of props for the Magdala·em;;,­ Moonlight mine, which is all brought from that Jocality. It comes to 31i:) tOilS for the one year, irrespective of smaIler timber for slnbbing and firewood. I may Atate that this particular kind of timber consists of' butts of trees, varying in thickness from 2ft. Sin. at the thick end to about 18 inches. It is very lieavy timber, and very costly to bring int.o the place. It cannot be got frol11 any other ncighbourllOod than the one I am speaking about. Jt is supplied at the prescllt time from 7d. to lOd. per rUllning foot, acco"rding to thickness, deliverctl here. Then as to the supply of firewood for the engines; there are a great lIumber of steam-engines here-there are tW{llvc of very large size, and altogether twenty steam-engincs have to be I supplied ,~itl: f~el, including some engaged in loc~l mallufactur~s of various kinds; I have made (lut that the consumptIOn 1S i ,922 cords pCI' annum, reprcsentlllg It tonnage of 13,864 tons measurement. Tbe wood is or di~ercnt ~inds, principally box-they ca.nnot ta.ke filly bllt' the best of fuel for keeping up stllouud up, I am, not able to give that, but there is a yery large cOllsumptiOli of produce from that (listrict here. ' ' 350. To jJfr. J. S; White.-The consumption of chaff would he more if we lind: bett?!' raHway facilities\ because there would be a gl:eater output of chaff from that arst'rict, and if there were an export, trad'e tIle farmers wonld h8 able to compete with those who are sending chatI' to Wesfm'n Australia. Previous' to the maritime strike, 8haff was sent crown from 8allnwadda and exported.' to QueensJan(l profitably, but the trad'e WHS interrupt,ed at that time allll it has 1I0t been resllmed. , , 351'. To the Hon:: E. lY[orey.-The road'S there nre very had- indeetl; in the winter ti'me' tlieyare' so bad that unless the Jarmers get their gmin to the railway or to the' st'oro here in the dry weather, wheil' they should be attending'to their land; they cannot get it in at all. , ' 3'52'. To the llon. D: Met'ville.-l hu,ve gi,'en the total'tonnage that I can ascertah~, but ]l finct' Dj inqniries th!tt a great d'eal of wheaf, according to the Government statistics, ninst have foulld' ,it's' way to Ballarat antl Geelong by road' w:rggo·1. , ,- , 3'53. TO·11fr.Ha1·Tis:-I believe the line woul(l' pay under cprh,ill circumstances, not to rim Hiles' as they do now, giving throe tmiils a day' where once a "'eek wonld db. f belleve [t, yery Tllotierate'loeomot,i've service would satisfy the requirements of tlte farmers np there if it: only enablerl tlicm to have easy tmnsit for their grain to market', and! belie've even a horse tramw:,y wonld be bener for them tli ml"l1O , line at all: They could bring tlieir grain down, aut! as the trnfIic developed, locomotives'might be applied-I believe the lir,Ie wonld pay expenses with' a moderate train service-I do not 'think it wonld give aliylhing over. , I arrive at that conclusion from my kilOwledge of 'the distdct amI it,s riclllles,;; Ii Iiavo not,' gOlie iht:o details. 354. 1'0 .f}[,(. BUTton.-I have not Hlnde any caleulalions as to what the Hailway Department woula have to expend' inean:ying on that traffic. ' . . 355. To Mr. J. S: JVhite.-f have not calculated bow many .trains we wonld require; it is'in a' popubus centre and on a !llain line. If a tra.in wonld' oring away 506 t~IlR, I tbink once a week would' be' ample' at 63

Maynard ,Old, 39 15th May, 1800,

first. I ,tihink that would be bet,ter than rnnningsix trains a week, and losing 011 ,every one of them. ' I thin'kthe country is justified in cOllstructing a line on national grounds alone, even where only one train a' .' wee;k is needed, if it is .to develop the country and assist the people. The witness withdrew.

Angus Henry Clarke, sworn and examined. 356. To the Chairrnan.--I am a eiva engineer, employed by the shire of StawcH. I hav,e been in that posit.ion over three yem's. The shire of Stawell takes in nearly the whole of Ma,rnoo. I am acquainted with the proposed ronte of the railway from Glenonhy to Wal/aloo and Marnoo. In a general Wlty theJ:e aTe no engineering difficulties worlll speaking of. I could not say what the deepest cutting would be; 1t all depends upon the character of the line you are going t.o construct, but there will be lIO heavy grades or any large bridges. Fl'om Glenorchy to Wa11aloo I think yon. might take it as a fair average line of what has been constructed of late years, It is something after the churacter of the line between G,lenorchy and Lubeck. The only difficulty is between Glenorchy and CaHawadda-I eould not say what it would be. The earthwork is done very cheaply here. Some of our contracts in t;he shire are at 4~d. per yard; that was witb a short lead of a few chains, simply moving it from one place to another. A 'lO-chain lead would be removed for ,from 5ld. to 6d. a yard, according to the nature of the material to be removed. '{'hat does not refer to rock, but what you could plough and scoop or pnt into drays. I uo not think Ihe Gov€l'l1ment WOll1d get it done as cheaply as in our contracts. On the whole, I think the rc-grading here 'Was done at a reasonable cost, considering the natnre of the work, though not as cheapiy as our work. I do IlOt think there would be much rock going from Glenorchy to Wallaloo; there might be !l, Ettie rock in two cuttings, but I do not think YOH would require to rednce the gra(le there mnch. There would not be any large bridges; they would only be waterways, which are not very expensive. In the immediate neighbourhood of the line there is not sleeper thnber, but at the far elld you would get it within 6~ miles-excellent box allll ironbark ill the Warngar forest. The Wal Wa] tramway is -not far from the Hne; that is about 6 or 7 miles long. I thiuk it is the same gauge as the railways. Gravel is obtained from there for ballast; -~ there is any qnantity of it. " ~ 357. '1'0 the Hon. lJ. :lfelville.-The rails are laid in the same way as the main line; it is a Goven,ment line. 358. To ]ylr. J. S. White.-I am aware that the Government has a minimum ratB of wage of lOs. per day for u horse and dray and man. The council have fixed t,he rate at 98. a day fo!' a man with a hDrse and dray, and 6s. a day for labour. We have no minimum rate in th(l shire. If the minimum rate were enf()J;ced at lOs. and 6s. 1 lhink the IlIeo wonlt! do the earthwork for about the same priee, hecause, although the couucil allow only 6s., Illost of the contractors allow their meu 7s. a clay, so the minimum rate of wage would not interfere with the contract!! let in this shire. 359. 1'0 tlw Hon. lJ. 1I1elville.-I have not formed any idea what this line should cost. 360. 1'0 the Hem. E. lIforey.-\Vhen you get beyond Callawadda the roads are :very bad, almost impassable in the winter, except for light, buggy traffic. The material is loam. We form them with a patent road-machine and then loam them. Gravel is out ~f the question, the country is too heavy. The roads are bad now and will cOlltinne bad until the spring. 361. To Mr. B1wton. - W e use the road-making maclline in earrying out different contracts. We are npt forming any more Foads as we were doing three years ago. We formed sufficient then to keep us going for three or four years, and all we do now with the machine is in repairing where the contractor can use the machine. We caU for tenders for the supply of four horses for ploughing and six horses for using the roau machine. The contractors have to keep the machine ill order, less wear and tear-they are responsible for any brea]wges. The machine is pmctieally unbreakable with ordinary care. Under those conditions the cost ranged from 48. 6d. to 5s. Gel. anel pS. a chain for road-making, and in those cases the earthwork would come out at l~d. or 2d. a yard. The machine is very effective in level cOllntry; it does not do in gravelly country or if you want to shift material from a cutting to form an embankment. It will only do in level country. I think it would be suitable for making the formation from Callawadda to Marnoo in a few instances, I would not say the whole way, but whenever you get a straight line of country it can be used with great advantage. We have often done;5 or 6 mili:l8 at a stretch and it does excellent work; you cannot do any work eqnal to it with a plough and scoop. Roughly estimating, I think it would come out at ltd. a yard as un average. 362. To Jlh. Craven.-All ~he roads are grubbed before the machine is put on ; the plough always goes first-you have to break the soil first. It is too severe on the machine if you do not plough first. It is an American road-making machine; Carolin, of Bendigo, is the agent. The' cost of the machine is about £85. 363. To the Chairman.-I have not had any experience in actual railway constrnction. I have had considerable experience ill shire work generally. 364. To Mr. Burton.-I am acquainted with the land on the Marnoo and Wallaloo line. The land is of very high quality in those districts, and in portions of' 'Virchilleba-it is not so good near Callawadda.. In the \Varngar forest there are about 6,000 !lcres-that is about 6i. miles from Wallaloo-which contflin 'excellent box timber; that forest is about 30 miles from Stawell. Our girders run from 9d. to Is. 6d. a foot, according to size-they are square hewn as a mle. Piles run from 9d. to Is., according to the distance they have to be takeu. Sometimes we get them locally, but we are pntting up a bridge at WaUaioo, and 'the timber will have to come from Warngar forest. We have not a schedule for the timber in that contract. Our timber has to be very straigbt, which costs more money than the miniug timber. 365. 1'0 Mr. Harris.-'-I know the greater part of the Wungar forest; I do not know the Kara Kara portion of it. In the Stawell portion of it there is excellent tim ber. There i5 11 good supply of trees yet remaining in t,he forest. I think the forest will last for the next twenty years at least. 366. To tli,e Hon. E . .llf01·e.1/.-It is iron bark and hox principally; it is not a dense forest, you can get through it. There is n~ undergrowth; it is clean, well-groWIl timber.' The surface is stony with gravelly outcrops. Our piles generally range 18 inches at the head for heavy wQrk, and not less thq.n '12 inches at the small end. We get them for I s. and Is. 3d. 11 foot. . k H. 'Olarke;, 15th May, 1890 •. 40

". 367. To ,Mr. Ha1'1·is.-The Warngar forest is about 30 miles from here; that is the main portion of the forest., The timber comes down the roads leatling direct to Stawell-it comes through vVarngar, Morrl 1forrl, Belaugum, Glynwylln, Watta Wella, and Stawell; it is a fair average ro:.ttl. It is not a good road in winter. The timber comes in horse teams principally. The men who bring the greatest qnantity of timber in to Stawell are Tippins and Frielantl. They generally cart by horse waggons; they canllot bring'heavy loads in winter, and that leaves the roads very bad. ]n summer the roads are good, amI the bnllock wallgons from the Grampial1s bring about 8 or 10 tons in a load. It takes abont two days to reach here from the forest; they have to camp, and there is nut mneh of the two days left-it takes about three ltnd a half days going and coming. I do not think they could bring 10 tons iiI a load from the forest because it is undulating conntry. The mitn(MS withdrew.

Holford H. Wettenhall, fnrther examined. , 368. To the Chairrnan.-I think Mr. Ord has very much understated the case in his statistics. :For wheat, taking WirchillebR, it is put down for one year at 444 bags; that is only 100 acres at four bags to the acre. As a fact, there were over 3,000 acres in wheat in Wirchilleba, and the average was six bags~ The western portion of it goes towards Rupallyup, IJULthe buik of it lies east of the Richardson. We had ourselves 2,300 acres under crop in 1894 that went six bags to the acre. I sold 2,300 bags myself to the mill in Stawell. 369. To Mr. Harri.q.-The western part of Wirchilleba is 110t under cultivation. It is all virgin land. There would be 10,000 or 12,000 acres of first-dass land. , 370. To the Chai1'1nan.-Carr's Plains is 15 miles from Glenorchy by the road and 14 miles from Lubeck; it is a.very bad road. There are It great many other farmers beside myself, who send wheat to market. We have always carted to Stawell, becanse 1/5 miles is too far to cart. We come straight iu; we do not go round by Glenorchy. I do not think there are any engineering difHcnlties in constructing a line from Stawell to Wallaluo. Except the Wimmera the COUll try does not justify making that line. The first 10 miles YOll would run for nothing; that has always killed that line. We advocated that line for a long time, but the first 10 miles kills it. , ~., ~ 371. . To llfr. I1arris.-Besides the wheat in those returns, I am inclined to think that the woo!--­ retUrIlS are almost as incomplete. I see the return says 1,041 bales, nnd we sent 500 odd bales our~.()rv;;s. Surely the other farmers ,vould send more than the balance. I do not think any wool was sent to Melbourne last year in any other way than by the rail. We had arranged to seud it. by road last year; but the Government reduced their charges. It takes about four days to go by road to Geelong. The question of tiine is not of much import,ance with wool. , 372. To the Chair1nan.-The last harvest was one of the worst we have had for a great number of years. There were 17,786 bags according to the Statist's retnrns. That takes Callawadda, Wallaloo, Maruoo, Burrnm Bllrrnm, 'Wirchilleba, Uiachella, Warranook, \Varngar, Morrl MoI'd, and Bolangnm. Out;side "the parishes of Callawadda, vVirchilleba, and Marnoo you get veJ'y little cultivation, because they are so far away. I think this return looks more complete, bnt that return could be doubled, and then be well within the mark. Last year th", averl1,ge w~as only abont two or three bags; whicn was the lowest we have ever known. , 373. To 21fr. J. S. White.-There are some thousands of acres in our estate. It is purchased land, and is worth about £3 an acre. If we had It railway I think it should increase the value of it. I do not think it would pnt £1 an acre on to it-it might pnt lOs. I am not prepared to enter into an nndertaking with the Government if the line did not pay. The 'witness wlthdrew.

Adjourned.

WEDNESDAY, 24TH ~UNE, 1896. I1fembers present:

The HON. D. MELVILLE, in the Chair; The Hon. E. Morey, M.L.C. Mb Bnrton, Mr. Cameron, Mr. Craven, Mr. RarriA, 1fr. J. S. White. Thoma,! Skene, sworn and examined. 374. By the Vice-Chairman.":"'Where do yon rcside ?-At St. Kilda. MarIloo station is my property. 375. You know the railway line referred to liS, Rupanyup to .Mal'lloo, by wny of I3anyena ?-I do •. . 376. Do you regard that as the best line, of the variolls proposals, to serve that district ?-Not q'uite to Bal1yena, bnt to a point about a mile and three-qumters south of Ballyena; tlJat is nearer to Banyena by about a mile and a half than the line I see on the plan before me. I would go from Rupallyup to the north-east corner of allotment 65, parish of BUITum Burrum; thence to Marnoo ; and from there, by way of 'Gre Gre, to St. Arnand.. 377. In It geneml way, does tue survey meet the, case ?-I think so, iI there is to be one line ~~. , 378. Have you anything to my to the Committee in support of that line, if so, we will hear yOl~r own statement 7-1 will refer to some notes which I have. In the first place, the, country to be served ·IS 65 Thomas Skene, 41 24th June, 1896.

all agricultural land from oue end to the other. I make out the length of line to be 39 miles. Allowing eight miles at each end as already served, and taking eight miles all each side of the line as country to be' served, gives an area of 868 square miles, or 285,520 acres, wbich is all wheat land. From that I would take the area availal)le for cultivation as being about oue-third of the 235,520 acres, which is equal to 78,500 acres. I tbink it necessary that two-thirds of tbe land should be under stock to prevent exhaustion of the land. In that district we cannot grow a succession of root crops, so that would leave, as I say, 78,500 acres availahlc for cultivation. I do not say that that area wonld be at once avtiilable, but it could· be worked up to that. That is the system pretty generally adopted in that part of the country, to keep one-· third of the land uuder cultivation at a time. Worked in that way, the country through which this line would pass should produce an I1verage of two and half bags to the acre, or 196,250 bags of wheat annually. This result would, as I have ;;aid, not be attainable at once, but that would probably be worked up to in the course of years. One-third uncier crop and two-thirds under sheep is the most profitable way of working that sort of country without exhausting it. The fact of so mnch of this country being now in gross is in favourof a large area being put in wheat if t.he railway is maue. The people are there to do it, and the land previously cropped has been rccnperating. This wonld also be an allernative route to relieve the mallee traffic. Regarding the objection of Mr. ,Tones that shortening the distance from Rupanyup to Melbourne would affect the revenue already received there, that is cheeseparing. The lower the rates can be made from any point the more wheat will be grown, and the chance of thc wheat inanstry beiug crushed out of the district reduced. I put this forward also as It reason for making the line. The producers and the mining popula­ tion furnish all the present eurnings of the railways. Everything the producer uses that comes to him hy rail is charged to him plus the railway freight; e\"erything he produces to sell is paid for minns the rail­ way freight. Of course, if the producers are not kept all the land,. the railways must suffer, and the com­ munity at large too. 'I'he larger the exportable surplus can be made the better for the railways, and for the country generally. Once let the people remove from an old settled resident,ial district, as this has proved to be, and it will be hard to get them back again. Tile poliey of the State owning the railways should be to keep the people there, unet to enconmge others to join them. People along, this line have, llitherto, shown a marvellous disposition to stick to the district, but is only within the last yenr or two that the pinch of extremely low prices has come. There is another point ill connexion with Mr. Jones' report. I made some "'___ inquiries of the local station-master' as to how t,he returns were calculated, and it seemed to me that the "'principle is an unfair one; that the liues should only get credit for the eal'llings to the point where they join'the main line. III my opinion, a districL shollld receive credit for all the profit made from the point of departure to the point of destination; that is the profit after paying the working expenses and making allowance for wear and tear. 1- have sent sheep throngh. from Rupauyllp to New South 'Wales, and they are earning a profit the whole way from Rllpunyup to \Vodonga. As I understand, in estimating the returns of a district they only get credit to the next station.

MI'. Cameron took the Chair. 379. By the C/Utinnan_-Would yon think the district 8ltould take credit for the whole of the earnings there?-Yes, over working expenses and cost of maintenance. I think the conntry lines are entitled to all that profit. I pnt it this way: assuming yOll have round a.bout Melbourne a barren al'ea of 30,000 or 40,000 acres and you put a railway throngh that to tap good cOllntry beyond, you could not suy that bar~en country earned anytlJing. The good country shollld pay its portion of the weltr and tear, and over that it should be eredited with all tbe carnill2:S. 380. Some one must pay for going through tbe harren country. Any good eountry beyoml is not made good through the' existence of that bad conn try ?-I am looking at the railways of the colony us, a general system. If the good country beyond pays for the working expenses and wear and tear of taking its produce throngh the barren country, that is all that can be fairly elaimed from it. Putting that on one side, I maintain that the conntry throngh which the railway'trucks puss is doing nothing towards the profit, and after toll is paid on a fair basis of· working expenses and maintenonee, I think that is all that portion of the railway is entitled to elaim. 381. .By hIr. J. S. fV/tite.-Where wonld yon have taken your sheep if there was no railway-to' the main line ?-Yes. 382. 'Would the main line then have the whole profit ?-There nre a great many other things to consider. Speaking of sheep, it is not so important a matter. It is too far to take fat sheep; I was speaking of rams, which I sent to New South ·Wales. 883. Where would the wheat go ?-Probably it ,,'ould not be grown at all at the present prices. \Vhen they were getting 4s. and 58. a bushel they could afford to cart their wheat further. The season before last I,sold 10,000 bushels at h. 8~d., and if tIle prices did not improve we would have to go out of wheat. 384. By the CIUtirman.-What line do yon favour ?-From Rnpanyup to Marnoo, within a mile and three-quarters of Banyena; to the north-east corner of allotment 6,5, parish of BurrulIl Burrum. I thinl~ it cannot go to Banyena, if it is to go sufficiently south to suit the people of Maruoo and Wallaloo. 385. If you divided the distance, is there necessity for taking it fartner north than to Marnoo ?­ I think so. There is some very good conntry to the north of Banyenu. 386. You would ask the Walluloo people to go further to the· railway than the Banyena people ?-' No. I am taking into consideration the district to the north of Banyena. There is very good land and a great deal of cultivation is being c:lrried on. It would be us far t.o Wallaloo. They are now on the outside, about twelve or fourteen miles from Donald or Cope Cope. . 387. What is the clistunce bet\yccn I{upanyup and Cope Cope ?-1 could not tell you, but I suppose 31 or 32 miles. . 388. It is 25 miles, I believe, in a straight line ?-As I have it marked here on the map it is pretty straight, and.. I think it was thought to be about 30 miles. I have never been to Cope Cope. 389. From yom knowledge of the country, do yon think a liue from Rupanyup to Marnoo wOlild serve the greatest n~mber of people and be the best line to serve tIle distriet ?-I think the line should go right through; to make it thoroughly serviceable to the district, to St,. Arnaud from Rupanyup. 42

390. To give them a double advantage, and allow them to take whichever line they liked '?-Exactly;: and there is a large amonnt of settlement between Marnoo and St. ,Arnaud that would not be served unless that was done.' ",' , ' '391. ,~he distance from lVIarnoo to St. Ar,naud is about eighteen miles'?-More, I think. I have never gone righ~ through by that road. ,My own place ,is about 28 miles from St. Arnaud, travelling by, r,o!J,(i. , 392, \Vould that line which you advocate serve the eouutry better thl1n a line mid-way 'between the tW9 main lines, starting from Avoca or Ehp11l1rst and going straight up the centre ?-I think it would serve that portion of the country as well. There is vei·y poor country soutb of Wallaloo aud Marnoo. To m~'lf:e ,a line from Avoca >yould be to go through a piece of poor country, 393. The pe()pl~ of Marnoo say they coulrl not use the line to go up towards Banyena ?-I think' t,here wouldb,e a' s~l'(?ng temptation, if they had the Ene, to use, it. I know they go to Stawetl now. Ul).less the line were made right through to St. Arnaud, it would not be of much nse to them. No one line in It di.l?trict woqid serve all the people in any case. , 394. Ho>y would it do to start it'from Stawell; is that had cotlntry ?-For a considerable distanee from Stawell it is poor country. ;395. Do you think t,hat a line, con~tructed as you ad vocate, would increase the cultivation ma.terially'?-Yes; I think it would. 396. Then gr:azing does not pay ?-It does pay, but the two, cultivation and grazing, pay better tog!jther. ' . 397. A m~n would not give up a paying t-hillg ?-I do not say grazing pays as well :18 combining the twp. I think that ~heep improve the Jaml 'for cultivttticm. , 398. Will land that'has been cnltivaied graze more sheep thari I:md ill its natural state?-Yes, W~tllOut putting any grass seed in ; that has been tried. 399. H.ow long doe::! it last ?-For the first year or two after cropping the wceds that come up keep' us gping, and then the natmal grasses come up and you get a better sward then ever before. The land is of curious formation i therc Me very soft banks, with stiff land intervelling, aud it is a recognised fact: tha,t the land that has been under cultivation gets mixed, and grows bj:ltter grass than without cultivation. I lu~ve2,100 acres leas~d to farmers I,nyself this year, and I bad 2,500 lease,d last year. ~ 400. If the price of wheat came down to 28. a bllsl~el would they still continue growing it ?-Certainly/ not, aithe present distance from a railway. The harvesting work is very heavy, and theu comes the m:08t, sicJt.Cnillg part.of their lubo!)r, fhe carting to the milway. In the first place, the farmer has to take the crop off it~ the hot weather, imd then he has to.pIlt the crop'in again. The harvesting lasts till the end of January; cultivation commcnccs in April; and thus his horses are workeu hard all the time. I think the long distance they have to cart is one 01 the reasons that keeps farmers from pntting in more wheat.' I do not think, in my eountry, t.hat 28. a bushel would pay. ' 401. How do yon account for the land going out of cnltLvation wit.h the lines alreauy existing ?- 1.'h,e land will become eKhausted if i~ is cult,ivated year after year. According to my experience, if they Pitt only pue-third of their l~nd in crop for three years and graze two-thirds of it, then they give it six years' spell, and if they .crop for two years they give it fom years' spell. Used iII this way the land is practically inexhaustible. . • 1:02. Yon are 3tware that they are letting the land out of cu'ltivl1tioll. There are large tract.s of lanQ, near the main lines that are '1ot cultivated now' that were once cultivated ?-That was in the time of high prices, 58, and 6s. a bushel, but they are pntting more in again. What they did was, in the !lrst instance, tq g~t a,~ lTIuch as they could out of the land by cultivating the ,\'I101e of it while the prices jn,stified it; bl}t'll<;>W t4~y ~rc e01nbining sheep and cnltivation, and, by dQiug as I say, the land is inexhaustibl;;l. 'T t4i}1~ tllfJ-t m\!-ny ,"ill go i'1to eulti vation again. 403,. raki~g the farmer geuer!tlly, what do you think would be a fair acreage for ,him to work to &1vl).l).~age in that (listrict, tlmt is, simply liS a fp.rmer ?-Anything t;lp to 2,000 acres; the l:;trger the better; but I think anyone with 640 aci'es, or even 320 acres, would make a goot! living, if he Bad the land clear. ~,' ""404. Is the tendency in yOllr distriet in the way of increasing the holdings 1-):e8, th~re is a tj3!14~'1cytqat way. . 105. Some are bOllg~lt out, and others clqar out? -Some lllen haye made a good deal of II,l<;mey in wheat lal'ming, and they gave a good price for the blocks adjoining. ' . ' 4q6~ Do you Ip10W that that acknowledges at once that a farmer hohting 10,000 acre,,! is not ef,ltitled to so much accommodation as several fhrmers with, say, 1,000 acres e:1Ch ?-Yes; but I think any on,a, D}ust put a cO!lsiderable a,creage nnder wheat. Speaking for myself,. I should like to eontinue at pre­ sent with wheat-growing, but the priees are too low. The Richardson River flows through a good deal of gQ9Q. land, as you will see by the map, but there is the diffielllty of getting crossing plaees as well as the (li~ta~ce to a railway station. . . MI', Melville again took the Chair. . 407. By the Vice-Chairman.-Setting aside thc argument as to production, have you any'thing to say tq the Committee with the view of fortifying them in the belief t4at the line wontrl get freight. W Quld you, yo.ur8el" bind yourself to produce freight fo~ five years ?-No, I would IIOt bind ,myself in any particillar direction. ' -:.' '408. Suppose the same thing occurs in your distriet that has occurred on the Natimuk to GOl'oke l\rre, tll:at the whole of the propobals of wheatcgrowing fall through, and the people keep 1.0 grazing?­ Onrs is a different country to that you mention. 409: If 'we seek a gnal!a,ntee, conld you givfl us any guarante(), jointly among tp.e people in your distriet ?-l would not myself, and I would not advise anyone else to do it.' A guarantee must always tend to lludermine a manls financial position. If you hold your land under ~ guarantee, yOll ~annot Bell or get an ~dvarl.ce oq the Sfl,I!1C basis as if YOll have it clear. ,., , '410. If we make an element of that, to ~eCllrc the country against a fiaseo ltl railway COllStl'UCtIOl1, if we insist fh~t if tIle railway is made so~() one must be responsible fOl' a certain amollnt of freight, would 67

Thomas' Skene, 43 24th' June,. 1896.

you be'disposed to give that guarantee, even, say, to the extent of 5 per cent. on the outlay?-1 would not. I think the quality of the land, the settled character of the population of the country, and the fact that it would be a very cheap line to construct should be sufficient. I think, in that shape, the guarantee stands out by itself. 41 L If Parliament looks on tbat guarantee as a test of your faith in the line, would you refuse to give it to them ?-I give my reasons for it. . A man whom I wanted to do business with might not have the s3lme faith in it as 1 had, and 1 would not hamper myself with a guarantee. 412. The Committee have to show some proof that the line will pay, if made, and we kll()w that many lines llave not paid ?-Because you do not credit them wit.h wh'at they earn. 413~ You are mistaken in that. There is a' percentage allowed of the traffic they bring to the main line. But in every place we now go to me qnestion is put to the owners of property as to their williugness to come under some responsibility. Do yon think we are to take yonI' evidence as a sample of the general feeling in the district, that yon are disinclined jto aid to the extent of guaranteeing to the extent of 3 per cent. even on the outlay for the first three years 1'-1 can only speak for myself. From 81 business point of view, I should think it: a fo~lish thing to do. We see w hat has been done in the water trusts. It is a dangerous'thing to do, apart from my own opinion, in' the face of other people's experience. 414. If we recommend the construction of the: raih,'ay and the State makes it, it makes it at its own risk ?-Entil'Cly, so far as I am personally concerned. 415. You have said already that it would increase the value of the land ?-1 have not said so. 416. Did you not, when you were last before the Committee ?-1 think not. I think it will increase our facilities for working the land, but I cannot recall evidence Qf one instance where railways have increased the capital "alue of land. , 417. "What is the average value of your land to-day r-Since the Committee was up there, there have been two or three Bl1les, one sale of my own, privately. Of the party who bought the land, I . aBked a cash price, £3 128. 6d. an I1cre, and he gave it at once. Since then there have been three sales by auction, two at £4 5s. and one at £4 7s. 418. B?I Mr. J. S. }Vhite.-Was tIJat Jand equal to yours in quality ?-As good as the best of mine. That land was between Rupl1nynp and .my place. '-- 419. By tlte Vice-Chairmarl.--How far is that land from the nearest practicable railway station ?- The land I sold at £3 128. 6d. is about seven miles and the other is three or four miles from a station. 420. It is withiu the radius of traffic?':"'-Yes. 421. Then that would not be affected ?-No, probably -not. 422. Yon have some land fifteEm miles from a railway?-I sold some five or six years ago at £4 lOs. It is very good land. I might now get £3 15s. or £4 an .acre for some of it. 423. What was the price of wheat when yon sold that land ?-About, perhaps, 3s. or 3s. 6d. a -bushel up there. 424. If that large slice of land were made available for a mall to go once or twice a day to a station, would that not increase the value of it fot wheat-growing ?-It might, but things are very different from what they were some years ago. The margin between keeping sheep and growing wheat is not so large. It does not seem to me to be fail', this being an old settled district-and 1 may say that I saw pegs some tim13 ago that were rotten through and wuich were put down at tbe :first survey-that we should not have some consideration in the way of a railway. There has been a settled population for 25 01' 30 years, though I have not heen there 80 long as that. It seems hardly fair that we should be treated differently from people who have been served with railway facilities in other places. 425. But, perhaps, that has been at a loss, and you du not argne that we must go on in the same manuer ?-Unless you increase the area of production I do not know how the community is to go on. I, myself, would not be against giving a subsidy to meet the deficiency of £150,000 a year. You have sub­ sidized the roads, and it is opening up It field for men of all trades and occupations. If you increase the area of cultivation, the general community would gain. 426. You are umdlling to bear any respon:,ibility as to freight or to enter into any guarantee as to the line paying .5 per cent. ?-I decline to euter into !tlly guarantee whatever. 427. If I understand you aright, although the Governmeut put a railway there, you would not guarantee to put a bale of wool on the railwfl,y ?-That is coming down to a practical point. I would pay on all my wool, and On everything in the shape of produce sent off the place by myself. ' 429. As a matter of fact, this is what has happened: the men who have 11 railway station at their door are bargaining with the waggoner;; to carry their wool right aWI1Y past the railway station to Mel­ hourne. Is it your opiuion that we shonld make railways and then he treated like that ?-~o; I think that is unfair. I have known cases of that ill the Western district. But there are other points to Le con­ Ridered. In giving a guarantee of It certain amount of freight to a line, it depends so much on the season. , There is not only the shortage of wheat for the season, but there is the amollut of hay that the farmers would have to go on for the next season. Without hay grown ill one season they could 110t put in a crop the next. There might be things happcn over which we had no control, where we could not pnt the stuff on the rail. I have the greatest faith in the district, and I believe if 11 railway were put there the people would remain and their families would remain. ,I see cases every day where farmers want to buy laud alongside their holdiugs for their SOilS. , 429. Tuat uas HOt been the case as far as culti\'!llion is collcemed in some places; they have gone into grnzing an(l so OIL You have not,lIing to suggest to us, I1S far as 1 see at present, that would fortify us against Joss if we made I he mil wa.y that YOIl ach'ocate ?-N ot in the way that you suggest. 430. By M,I'. J. S. TfTkite.-You may have sometbing else to suggest ?-No. 1 think those who haye seen the district ant! the soil should have confiuence in it. Very few people have left the district since I went up there. 431. If the rnilway were made and your land were put up to auction, how mudl more do you think it would fetch ?-I could not say. 432. If it is worth £3 lOs. now woult! it feteh £5 an acre wit.h n railwny ?-Propertv is 80 unsalo-

able that you cannot say what it is worth. J Tholll~S Skeno, 24th June, 1800. 44

, 433. Wonld it fetoh 208. moro at 11 forced sale with a rail way than without ?-I do nob, think so as [t lot. If it ever brings It highet' price, it will bo sold in smnlllots. The only mles I have ml.1de have been small blocks. ' i~34. If the railway is made, are yon prepared to let out the land in small blocks?-Yes, up to one-third, oil the share principle. }\Iy land is open now; that is my arrangement with my tenants at present. 435. A.nd do you think if the railway were made yon would have plenty of applIcants for those blocks ?-I do. # • , 436. lJy jlth. Rurion.-Will yon tell ns the acreage pllt nuder cultivation by your neighbours, if you know it ?-I do not know it. I know there is one tenant of mine who had 700 or 800 acres of mine, ,and some of his own besides, and I1notller had about 100 acres of his own land in, I believe. 437. Do yon know wlmt Mr. Wett.elllmll is doing with his land ?-I do not know. I know what he was doing. I think he hau, perhaps, 2,000 or 3,000 (tcres let on the share principle. 438. Do you know any of the large holders who have been cultivating ?-I think they have been lettiltg out. 1 think it is almost all small holdings on tUc line, except my own land. The line would not touch on any large properties. Mr. Weatherly has been doing Borne cnHl vat,ion himself; but 1 do not ,know whether he has been lctting out any of his land.

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