ExtractCOMMONWEALTH OF Official Hansard

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON PETITIONS

Reference: Petitions from Victoria

THURSDAY, 30 OCTOBER 2008

MELBOURNE

BY AUTHORITY OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Thursday, 30 October 2008 REPS PET 37

BELLIZIA, Miss Alexandra, Member, Avila College Reconciliation Group

PETRIE, Miss Caitlyn, Member, Avila College Reconciliation Group

TITUS, Miss Hazel, Member, Avila College Reconciliation Group

Apology to Indigenous Australians

CHAIR—I now welcome students from Avila College, Mount Waverley. Although the committee does not require you to speak under oath, you should understand that this meeting is a formal proceeding of the . Giving false or misleading evidence—do not be frightened by that little bit—is a serious matter and may be regarded as a contempt of parliament. Would oneExtract person like to make a short opening statement before we proceed to questions? Who is going to be the spokesperson?

Miss Petrie—We would just like to start off by acknowledging the Wurundjeri people, who are the traditional custodians of this land. Members of the standing committee and Madam Chair: we are here before you today as young people who are, quite simply, passionate about giving Indigenous Australians a voice. Based on some personal experience and information that has been in the media regarding Indigenous health, life expectancy, education and housing, we have concluded that Aboriginal people do not have a voice and that this is impacting on their quality of life. This petition was a means by which we could humbly argue that reparation needs to be made; however, consultation with Indigenous Australians, the very people being affected by the actions, is pivotal.

The fact that there is no mechanism in place by which the voice of Indigenous Australians can be heard concerns us at Avila College because we believe it implies a sense of superiority, a sense that we, the non-Indigenous community, know what is best for the Indigenous people. Our reconciliation group at Avila College, supported by all members of our school community who signed the petition, are deeply saddened when we hear of a teenage girl in a remote community dying of an entirely preventable heart attack, when we hear that Aboriginal people have a life expectancy 17 years less than our own, when we hear that Aboriginal students do not have the educational opportunities that we as students have.

There is a cry from Indigenous Australia, a cry that demands and deserves to be heard, listened to and consulted with in the process of making right the wrongs that have been done to them since European settlement. It is our desire, in submitting this petition and standing before you today, to echo that cry and show our unwavering support for the most disadvantaged community in Australia, our first Australians, to be given a voice and so be empowered to bring about change in their communities.

CHAIR—Thank you very much. Hazel or Alexandra, if do not want to add anything to that excellent opening statement, I will start off with a few questions before I hand over to other committee members. I was very interested to find that you have a reconciliation group at your college. I am just wondering if you could give us a little bit more detail as to its operation and how it was formed—a little bit of the background. I would also like to know how you gathered

PETITIONS PET 38 REPS Thursday, 30 October 2008 all the signatures. I believe there are 479 signatures, and your petition was presented to the House of Representatives on 15 September. Tell us a little bit more about the group first.

Miss Petrie—In 1997 a group of Avila students went to a forum at Siena College. They heard from, I think, Mick Dodson and were inspired to act towards justice. So they came back to Avila and thought, ‘We need to do something about problems and we want to start up a reconciliation group at Avila College.’ Ever since then we have been blessed enough to have some really supportive staff. I have been in the reconciliation group since year 7.

Miss Titus—I recently joined the group. I joined Avila only at the beginning of this year, and it was a good way to meet people. Once I actually realised what was happening and the intention of the group I became really interested and became a permanent member of the group. In my previous school I had an experience of coming together in such a way to try to get a voice for the Aboriginal community, but I felt that Avila had a more efficient way of going about it. I think what Extractwe can do is really great. Miss Petrie—Basically, what we aim to do is to inform ourselves, because by no means are we experts regarding Indigenous issues, and educate our wider Avila community.

CHAIR—That is wonderful.

Miss Titus—Just referring to how we got the signatures, we had a casual day and advertised the petition in the bulletin so that the whole school knew about it. As part of that we had a cake stall. Every member of the reconciliation group baked some cookies or a cake and brought them along, and we held a small cake stall at lunchtime, with a gold coin donation. Along with that, we had some of our members standing with the petition. We told everyone what we were doing, our intentions and what we wanted to be done, and asked them if they agreed and would consent to signing it. A lot of people were really interested, and it was good to see such support. That is how we went about actually getting the signatures.

CHAIR—I think you were saying that Pat Dodson crossed your path and that was the reason you became interested in forming the reconciliation group at the college. He has most probably touched your lives. Have you met anybody else within the Indigenous community, and have you gone out into the Indigenous community?

Miss Petrie—We are very lucky. Our reconciliation group has a lot of special connections with members of the Indigenous community. In particular, since about 2005, we have had a tie with a remote Indigenous community about 80 kilometres from Alice Springs, Santa Teresa. We hope to keep it going. A group of year 10 students travel there and work for about a week within the school and the community. That is probably one of our key connections. They are a Catholic community, so we have very close ties with them. We also have had ties with Worawa College in Victoria and Joy Murphy Wandin, a Wurundjeri elder. We feel that our best resource is these members of the Indigenous community when they come in to talk to us.

CHAIR—You were just stating that you have gone out into the Indigenous community, and I think you stated it was for a week. Can you tell us what happened over the five or seven days that you were there?

PETITIONS Thursday, 30 October 2008 REPS PET 39

Miss Petrie—I think I am the only one of the three of us who has been. I went last year. The important thing is that it is about informing ourselves. There is only so much that a group of students can do when they are there for only a week, but we were lucky enough to be able to work with the kids in the classroom for a little bit. So I guess it gives the issue a more personal touch when you form friendships with some of the children, who are just beautiful. We also worked in the women’s health centre and were able sometimes to go round on the school bus in the morning as it collected the kids.

CHAIR—You would have heard some wonderful stories, especially about their Dreamtime.

Miss Petrie—It is a Catholic community run by a group of brothers. We were able to go out bush for a night with one of the brothers, so that was a great experience as well.

CHAIR—That is lovely. Before I hand over to other members I want to go to your petition, where you said that Avila College draws ‘to the attention of the House our concern that IndigenousExtract Australians are not being given a voice’. How do you feel that Indigenous Australians should be given a voice?

Miss Petrie—By no means are we offering a model, because we do not feel that we are in a position of expertise or can offer any new evidence, but suggesting some form of—

CHAIR—You could be our future politicians, so please feel free to let us know.

Miss Petrie—consultational body with which the government can converse so that the actions taken towards improving the quality of life for Indigenous Australians are in tune with the needs and wants of the community.

Miss Titus—What we are trying to suggest is just a formal body that represents all structures of the Aboriginal community, with representation of women as well as the younger generation, because all Aboriginal communities are different. We think that maybe elders of different communities should come together so they would be more in tune with the needs and wants of their communities.

CHAIR—What were your feelings when the group watched, as I am sure it would have, the televising of the Prime Minister’s apology to the Stolen Generation, which received bipartisan support?

Miss Petrie—In the lead-up, prior to the petition, the whole school was gathering for a practice of our school mass, and we were able to show the school some highlights, because we thought it was very important, given our passion for reconciliation at Avila, if they had not seen it at home, to involve the whole community. I think we have been touched by history, and it was so important for us to witness that as young people, particularly as people who are so passionate about reconciliation. It was a wonderful, wonderful moment.

CHAIR—Fantastic. Mr Adams, do you have a question?

Mr ADAMS—Thanks very much for appearing before us. I am always pleased when I see young people take an interest and participate in the processes. You said you would like to inform

PETITIONS PET 40 REPS Thursday, 30 October 2008 the community. Have you held a forum in the school or in some way taken views from a broader school community on this particular issue?

Miss Titus—Not that I am aware of, because I only started at Avila this year, but I think Caitlyn has been—

Miss Petrie—In terms of education within our community, like I said, the watching of the apology was a starting point, and the doors are always open for any members who want to come to our reconciliation group. Do you mean in reference to the drafting of the petition?

Mr ADAMS—The broader Indigenous issues in Australia.

Miss Petrie—Last year we were fortunate enough to have an interschool forum on the intervention. One of the key issues that came out of that forum was the idea of consultation and ‘Do IndigenousExtract Australians have a voice?’ That is what fuelled our passion. I am not sure if that is answering your question.

Mr ADAMS—Yes; it tells me what you have done, and that is what I was interested in. The other issue is that Indigenous affairs are not simplistic; they can be complex. I was interested in what Hazel said about the elders coming together. The elders of the different communities are not always at one with the way to go, so that makes it complex. But there is a general rule, I suppose, which is human rights and the rights of all of us to have certain standards. You touched on the difference of 18 to 20 years in the age at death of Indigenous people compared with white Australians, which does not seem to me to be a matter that we should accept as being reasonable. But do you see it as a human rights issue as well?

Miss Petrie—Absolutely, yes.

Miss Titus—Definitely, because I think that all of us deserve a right to have a healthy life. I think it is really unfortunate that, although they are rightful Australian citizens, their lives are cut short so severely, and as fellow Australians we should do whatever we can to definitely give them a healthier and more comfortable life.

Mr ADAMS—I have just got one more question. This committee is a relatively new committee which has been formed to try to encourage groups like yours to petition the parliament and actually then have a say. We are looking at an e-petition process. You must be pretty conscious of that—probably more so than I am.

CHAIR—Electronic petitions.

Mr ADAMS—Would you utilise e-petitioning if you could to petition the parliament on a particular issue?

Miss Petrie—I think that it is fantastic. We are so lucky to be here and it is a fantastic opportunity for us to take it that step further outside our school community and consult with people in positions of power such as you. So I think that if there was a particular issue and if we felt the need to petition, then we would certainly use that facility if it were available.

PETITIONS Thursday, 30 October 2008 REPS PET 41

Miss Titus—Just to add to what Caitlyn said, I think that, now that our community is so in touch with information technology and such, it would be an easier and more efficient means of petitioning, and I guess it would be more hands-on and would give you a better perspective of what you were doing, with easier instructions, so that you could go about petitioning in the formal way. I know that we had a little bit of trouble when we drafted our petition, because we found out later that the rules had changed. So we had to come back and redraft everything, and it was a bit daunting. I think definitely we need electronic petitioning. It would be more hands-on and you would not feel so intimidated by the process.

Mr ADAMS—What about if the Sunrise television program had a phone-in poll in the morning and then the parliament ended up with two million e-mails or two million e-petitions in the afternoon on a certain subject? It may not really reflect the true position. Any thoughts on that? MissExtract Petrie—As opposed to the formal way? Mr ADAMS—It is just something we are coming to grips with, I guess, in looking at e-petitioning: how do we do it so that it has got some integrity and is not just an easy matter of pressing the button and sending something off to the members of parliament?

Miss Petrie—That is the thing. I do not think the process of petitioning is not something to be taken lightly. So that should be kept in mind, making sure that when people are petitioning it is done with real passion and an understanding that a petition is a formal document that is going to parliamentarians.

Miss Titus—Exactly. I think that if you had the intention to come forward and take part in such a process you would be very serious and very passionate to take that step forward. If you did want to petition, you would be very serious about it and not take it as a very light issue.

CHAIR—It might be something that you might consider, because we have got an inquiry into e-petitioning at the moment. You might like to go back to college and talk to the other students and your teachers. You could look at the terms of reference for that inquiry and put in a submission, which we would greatly appreciate. If your petition had been an electronic petition, it may not have been only your college; local schools within the area could have come forward and added their names to that petition. So just think about whether you want to put in a submission. Mr Broadbent, and then I will go to Ms Vamvakinou.

Mr BROADBENT—Thank you. I just pick you up, Caitlyn, on your description of us as powerful people. We are powerless people but our strength is in our powerlessness. I spoke to Wonthaggi Primary School assembly on Monday morning. We were standing in a beautiful recreation hall, supplied by the state government and some other processes. There was beautiful artwork around the walls, which they were just completing. The students were turned out exceptionally for my visit, and I was very proud to be their member. In looking at that vista before me I understood then that, whilst we have all those wonderful things at Wonthaggi—and I am very proud of all my schools and have a great sense of pride in your presentation today—I explained to those students that we have many young Indigenous people who actually do not have a school to go to. At the same time, at a national level, we make rules whereby if parents do not send their children to school we will take punitive action against them and reduce the

PETITIONS PET 42 REPS Thursday, 30 October 2008 moneys that we give to them to look after their family. These are some of the underlying difficulties.

Do you know or would you like to inquire—and we cannot give you any answers—how many Indigenous children do not have a primary school to attend? Caitlyn shook her head. I do not expect an answer to that, but it does show the great depth and difficulty of the issue that you are raising with the committee. Generations of very genuine people who have gone before you have struggled with this issue. The government has just released a report on the intervention and how we as a nation should proceed with that. You will note the very clear bipartisan support in the federal parliament for anything we can do. So, if you as a group of people have ideas as to how we might address your petition and enable Indigenous communities to get a voice, we would be very receptive to any idea that you put forward.

CHAIR—You might even want to take that on notice. When we say ‘take that on notice’, that meansExtract that it is something you can go away and think about. Miss Titus—We will think about it, definitely.

CHAIR—Then just write to us and we can put that on the public record, not only for the students of your college to read but for the whole of Australia interested in your cause.

Miss Petrie—Sure. Thank you.

CHAIR—Mr Broadbent, have you finished?

Mr BROADBENT—I will come back to it later.

CHAIR—Ms Vamvakinou.

Ms VAMVAKINOU—I am in a disadvantaged position, having both the questions I wanted to put to you already put to you by Mr Adams and then remarked upon by Mr Broadbent.

Mr ADAMS—You will have to think up another one.

Ms VAMVAKINOU—Yes, I was desperately trying to think of another one. Your presentation here today is really encouraging; it is terrific. You will go away and wonder, ‘Whatever happened to our petition?’ How will you track our response, other than through what has been happening here today, to the issues that you have raised in your petition? I am asking you because I think a lot of the issues that are raised here, the initiatives, come from the community. Clearly you have some very passionate drivers at the moment. I would hate to think that you felt, ‘We have done our bit with the petition; we will leave it there and move on.’ I am certain that you will chase this up or follow it up. How do you think you might?

Miss Titus—I think that just being heard by all of you and actually coming here is a big step for us.

Ms VAMVAKINOU—Sure.

PETITIONS Thursday, 30 October 2008 REPS PET 43

Miss Titus—And that is a lot of recognition, but we definitely will not keep quiet and we will definitely chase it up. I am not quite sure how, but we will find a way.

Miss Petrie—Yes, the reconciliation group will continue to be passionate about this issue. As a group we will find a means by which we can keep pursuing it.

CHAIR—You know that we have a website, and what you have said today will be on the website. As I stated earlier, I think your petition was tabled by your local federal member, Anna Burke. Anna would have loved to have been here today with you but she had to send her apologies—she had a longstanding commitment. Once that petition was tabled on 15 September, virtually the next day a copy of the terms of reference went to the minister, Minister Macklin. So we are looking forward to the response by Minister Macklin. There are usually 90 days to respond. I am going to put in a plug here, and I am sure that Mr Broadbent will not mind me saying this: we have had a great response from the ministers—about 95 per cent. Once you get that response you might look at it, and there might be certain aspects of it that you might not be happyExtract with. Please feel free to put in another petition.

Miss Titus—Sure.

CHAIR—We will go back to Mr Broadbent and then Mr Adams.

Mr BROADBENT—Mrs Vamvakinou and I are different. By her surname and by my surname you will see we come from different backgrounds, and we actually have cultural differences.

CHAIR—This is the best thing about Australia, isn’t it?

Mr BROADBENT—We actually have cultural differences, and I know that I have cultural differences with the Indigenous community. There are aspects of my interaction with that community, even in my own electorate. It is not as simple as, ‘I am ringing up and I am coming around to talk to you.’ It is not simple when Lionel Rose’s mother just recently passed away and when Dick Adams—I do not know where your mum is now, Dick, you can tell me—

Mr ADAMS—In heaven.

Mr BROADBENT—She is in heaven, the same as mine. When Dick’s mum died I would probably write a letter, ring up and send a card—there are certain things that we do. With the Indigenous community you have to be careful how you approach it. I know there are some aspects of the Italian community, especially traditional, that I do not understand; there are some aspects of the Greek community that I do not understand. Then again, if I interact with them enough I find out what I can and cannot do, what I can and cannot say. I think there is a case for some inter-Indigenous community cultural education so we can actually get an understanding. Have you thought about the cultural differences? When you were away with them, did you think about what you could do, what you could not do, what was culturally acceptable, what was not culturally acceptable and how you interacted with them?

Miss Petrie—Definitely. Obviously there are cultural differences, and that is something that needs to be kept in mind. I think that can be a barrier in responding to some of the issues within

PETITIONS PET 44 REPS Thursday, 30 October 2008 the Indigenous communities, and there can be misunderstandings, misconceptions. So, first of all, that is what we are aiming at when we say that we want Indigenous people to have a voice— to breach that in a way, because, if there is consultation, hopefully misunderstandings and misconceptions will be limited. When I was away, we were working a lot with the children, and they were so incredibly welcoming of us. It is hard to put into words, I am sorry.

CHAIR—It was a wonderful experience that you shared with them.

Miss Petrie—Absolutely. Also, I think what came to mind about their culture was the sense of family and the sense of community—cousins, brothers and sisters. Particularly in such a small community as Santa Teresa, there was that sense of closeness and community. Like you said, when a member of the community passes away it has great effects on the entire community. There is one moment that comes to mind. There was a girl on our trip whose last name was ‘Smith’. There were Smiths in the community, and they said, ’Oh, you are our sister—you have to comeExtract over for dinner.’ I am sorry if this is not answering your question. Mr BROADBENT—Yes, it is. It is very good.

Miss Petrie—As visitors, we were very wary of stepping into the community, and we tried not to impose ourselves on them, but they were incredibly welcoming of us and made us feel at home.

CHAIR—Mr Adams, did you have a further question?

Mr ADAMS—Not so much a question, but I wanted to say that the petition was very well written, and I enjoyed reading the words. As someone who did not always appreciate words, it means a lot to me. Culturally, I am very different because I come from Tasmania, so I am an island person.

CHAIR—Tasmania is still a part of Australia!

Mr ADAMS—I also have beliefs that people who come from islands are different from people who come from mountains—

Ms VAMVAKINOU—I come from an island.

Mr ADAMS—and people who live on plains and people who come from big cities. So there is diversity. But I enjoyed the words.

Miss Petrie—Thank you.

CHAIR—We still have about half an hour to go. First of all, I do want to thank you for coming before the committee today. What year are you in?

Miss Petrie—I am in year 11.

Miss Titus—I am in year 10.

PETITIONS Thursday, 30 October 2008 REPS PET 45

Miss Bellizia—I am in year 7.

CHAIR—So we have a mixture of years here. I admire you greatly. I thought it was an absolutely fantastic petition, and I hope that you are an example to all students throughout Australia in that your voices are going to be heard regardless of your age. I think the school should be very proud of you and of all the students that are present here today and all those who are involved in the reconciliation group at the college, because you are our future.

Because we have half an hour remaining to us, you might want to ask us some questions on the parliament or general questions on our roles as parliamentarians. Please feel free to do that. But firstly I will go back to Mr Broadbent.

Mr BROADBENT—Where do you think the movement of students across Australia might come from with regard to Indigenous communities? When I was at school we had what was called the Aboriginal Advancement League. I wonder whether it would be worth the school researchingExtract the Aboriginal Advancement League to see if there is a kick-off point for yourselves to take what has gone on in the past, add to it and put in your own inspiration and ideas as to how we are going to reconcile with all our neighbours, cousins, friends, realising that even within Indigenous communities there are many fractures and how they might be healed. Are there any comments? You are allowed to talk, Alexandra.

Miss Bellizia—Yes, I know.

Miss Titus—It is an interesting question.

Mr BROADBENT—Where might you go from here?

Miss Bellizia—I think that we would all work very hard to try to fix the gaps, like the life expectancy gap, just as, even though we may be a small reconciliation group, we would always definitely try our hardest to help in any way that we could to make anything that concerns the Aboriginal people better. We would help there, even if we helped with fundraising and things like that. We would definitely all be in it.

CHAIR—Do you know if other schools—I am sorry, Russell?

Mr BROADBENT—Just on what Alexandra was saying there—

CHAIR—Go on. Then I can ask another question.

Mr BROADBENT—Do you think we should be culturally more protective of our Indigenous community?

Miss Bellizia—I have to say that we have accepted them differently. I come from an Italian background but we get along with someone from a Greek background and go to the same types of schools, but Aboriginals have been sort of isolated from the schools that we go to.

Mr BROADBENT—Alexandra, I know a bit about Italian families because I grew up in Koo Wee Rup, so half of my community was Italian, Dutch or German—but mostly Italian. If

PETITIONS PET 46 REPS Thursday, 30 October 2008 someone is not tracking quite as well in the family as the rest, that someone tends to get more attention than the whole of the rest of the other four or five kids. Do you know what I mean?

Miss Bellizia—Yes.

Mr BROADBENT—You have probably seen it yourself. When someone is not tracking quite as well, mum and dad will put more effort into that child than the others, because the others are strong enough and robust enough to get on with their lives themselves. They are probably given extra work to do. Would you comment on whether we should culturally say, ‘Righto. We have got somebody who is not tracking as well as they should be.’ From a cultural perspective, should we not as a nation consider being more protective, rather than, as we have been, saying, ‘We will throw money at the situation. That just fixes that. We do not have to worry about it any more. Look at the money we have put into it.’ Should we not, rather, take a culturally different look at the Indigenous issues of the day and say, ‘No, let us as a nation be far more protective of this group.Extract’ That is what I am sort of putting to you—a cultural shift. Miss Bellizia—Yes, I believe that we should have a cultural shift to that perspective instead of throwing funds at them. They would know what they would want to use the money for, but I think maybe the government is just intervening in the wrong way, because they do not have a voice to say what they need the money for.

Ms VAMVAKINOU—I was recently up at the Batchelor Institute in the on an education committee, and there is a view in the Indigenous community that one of the reasons we have failed Indigenous Australia in relation to providing education is because our attitude towards how we provide that education and the expectations that we have of the Indigenous communities is that they conform to the way we think they ought to be learning and incorporating. I think that is a really important point that they make: that we have probably wanted to help them on our terms, not on their terms. I think really we can do it only if we are understanding and sensitive to the values. Russell talks about protecting their culture, and in many ways we have just tried to impose our own.

Miss Titus—Yes.

Ms VAMVAKINOU—I think that they are the keys to actually go the other way, and I think that if you understand that then—and I would like you to comment on this—your generation will probably have more success in finding a way to not only make reconciliation work but also give Indigenous Australia an opportunity to lift itself in a way that it wants to lift itself, not in the way that we want them to lift themselves. That is really what we would want your generation to do in its future role as leaders and policymakers. So if you could comment on that I would appreciate it.

Miss Petrie—Absolutely. And I think, Ms Vamvakinou, this ties in with what you were saying. Preservation of culture is something that has to be kept in mind when dealing with this issue because the Indigenous culture in Australia is one of the oldest, if not the oldest, living cultures in the world, and that is something that is incredibly special. That has to be kept in mind. It is at the crux of what we are aiming for. To give Indigenous people a voice means that the cry that has for so long been muffled is being heard, and in that way the actions that are taken to improve their quality of life come from what they are wanting and what they think they need.

PETITIONS Thursday, 30 October 2008 REPS PET 47

CHAIR—That is fine. I have just noticed in front of me—I think it is dated October—a newsletter that I have read that the school puts out. I have noticed here that you have the heading ‘Petition success’, and there is a small caption that says that the petition had been tabled in the House of Representatives. Have you told any schools in the area exactly what your group has been doing and that you have lodged a petition with the House of Representatives? Have you spread the word, I should say?

Miss Titus—I do not know actually how—

Miss Petrie—Not that I am aware of, no.

Miss Titus—Not that I am aware of either, no.

Miss Petrie—But we definitely have within our own school community. Like you said, the petitionExtract has been in our bulletin. A copy of it is being printed in our school year book, which will come out at the end of the year. Also, administration and staff were involved in the process of drafting it. So our community, not just the reconciliation group, has been involved in the whole process, and we hope to keep them updated.

Miss Titus—I think that is a good suggestion that we can take away with us to pursue reconciliation, that we could educate communities around us, not just the Avila community but other schools and our communities around us. Definitely that is something we could work on.

CHAIR—Well, you are going to be on the public record in Hansard. You will be up on our website, and hopefully other schools will see what you have done. They might think about putting in a petition that is near and dear to their heart and have the opportunity of coming before the House of Representatives petitions committee. Have we got any more questions on the petition that is in front of us? I am sure that we are looking forward to the response from the minister.

Mr BROADBENT—We could go all day, but I would like to give them an opportunity to grill us.

CHAIR—We have about 20 minutes left. You do not have to use up all of that time if you do not want to, but are there any questions that you want to ask us regarding petitions or just anything in general to do with our life within the electorate office and our life within the federal parliament?

Miss Petrie—Not specific to this petition, but to this committee. Obviously not every petition would have the chance to be presented in this way. What is the process?

CHAIR—We are trying to get to see as many people as possible. As you are aware, you have to have a principal petitioner. But this is a completely new committee. In the last parliament there was an inquiry by our procedures committee into electronic petitioning and petitioning in general. A number of recommendations were given to the previous government, and I thank the government that we have now for taking those recommendations on board. Hence, we have the petitions committee. What we were hearing from the general public prior to this new committee being formed was, ‘Look, we signed a petition. We got a couple of hundred or thousands of

PETITIONS PET 48 REPS Thursday, 30 October 2008 signatures, it was tabled in the House of Representatives, a small note went up to the minister, and that was the end of it.’ The government felt that the voice of the people had to be heard. So what happens now is that a petition will come before our committee. We meet every Wednesday of a parliamentary sitting week to see if petitions are in order. If a petition is in order, we then present it to the House of Representatives every Monday evening at 8.30. We are given about 10 minutes to table those petitions and we are also given time to speak on a particular petition or even to discuss some of our public hearings. Once a petition has been lodged, a letter will go off to the minister with a copy of the terms of the petition. A minister has to reply to the parliament within 90 days, and this is where I think we have a little bit of power and why we are having such a wonderful response from the ministers. If they do not reply within 90 days, they can be in a bit of trouble: we can actually name them in the federal parliament. Then we can also refer your petition off to a relevant House of Representatives committee for them to note. Once the petition is lodged in the federal parliament, we can get the relevant departments in to actually ask them questions about your petition.

I thinkExtract the changes that have been made are fantastic. We have finally taken the federal parliament on the road to meet our petitioners. Hence, we decided that our first port of call was going to be here in Fitzroy, in Victoria. We do want to go to many other parts of Australia. Would anyone like to add anything to what I have just stated?

Mr ADAMS—Petitioning is a very old way of trying to speak to leaders to get change, going back centuries and centuries, even before , to when it was dictators or kings or queens. So petitions are historically part of the culture, I guess, of the structures we have accepted from the Westminster . So, with all sides of parliament giving it full support, we are hoping to give it more life and we look forward to giving people more voice by getting petitions into the parliament.

Mr BROADBENT—In the same way that you were wanting to give a voice to the Indigenous community, so we are trying in this committee to raise up the issue of the petition. In 1648 you could petition the House of Commons for a resolution to a civil matter, and the commons would make a decision on your civil matter and hand down its decision. Here, we are not handing down decisions but raising the issue that you have raised with the parliament to a new level so that it will be addressed by the committee itself to the relevant authority. In the process, we, in turn, have you sitting here discussing the issue. Therefore, just out of this meeting will come opportunities and ideas on our side and on your side of the table as to where we might head from here on a particular issue. It also enhances our knowledge of our nation, what our young people are thinking—in your case—where their drivers are and the opportunities for the future on current political issues or current national issues. I have not asked you about the American election campaign yet. That is coming in a few moments. So there are a number of positives that emanate from a meeting such as this that come out of an original petition.

I am also interested, as we work through as a new committee, in how we address ourselves to particular petitions that may be inappropriate. If they are out of order for documentation reasons, that is one thing, but how are we going to judge what petition is inappropriate to accept? That will be hard for us because there will be some that will be highly offensive to some members of the committee and not so offensive to other members or vice versa. So there are issues that we need to deal with.

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Miss Titus—Do you feel a certain pressure because you deal with such a delicate issue in Australia? Do you feel—

Mr BROADBENT—Having Julia Irwin as the chair puts us all under a lot of pressure, Hazel, at the moment.

CHAIR—Do not believe it.

Mr BROADBENT—The chair might like to answer that one.

CHAIR—Do not believe a word he is saying. I am a Labor member. Now that Labor is in government Labor members usually have the chair’s position on all . Russell is a Liberal member, but this is a bipartisan committee and we have a wonderful working relationship. It is early days yet, Russell, though. Sometimes there can be a little bit of pressure. SometimesExtract it is very hard. A lot of petitions come before us that we have tabled in the House. We would love to be able to see every principal petitioner, and I think we have covered quite a few over the short time that the committee has been going.

Ms VAMVAKINOU—As the chair has probably said, as this committee finds its feet and becomes a bit of an established institution, it obviously will receive a lot more petitions. It will be virtually impossible to be able to meet with every petitioner. So it will be a matter of choosing, I guess, issues that are significant to the broader community as well. Even if the broader community itself does not bring them to our table, maybe 10 people will, but, nevertheless, it will be an interesting balancing act.

CHAIR—As a committee, we also can hold an inquiry. Some people will say to us: ‘Look, you know, we can only get 10 signatures. Does that mean that our petition is not as important as the one that might get 10,000?’ Well, every petition is important to the committee and to the parliament, but there might be one particular petition that will come before us about a new drug for cancer that needs to go on the PBS. One of the relevant House of Representatives committees, like health and ageing, might not have the time to do an inquiry into that. As the Petitions Committee, we might think, ‘Hey, there is no other committee that can do that inquiry at this stage, and we could possibly take that on board.’ So it is early days yet. As we all say: watch this space.

Mr BROADBENT—Chair, I might explain that a couple of months ago we had a petition come before us that, in essence, asked that under our migration program we would have our focus on only Christian immigration. That, to me, was abhorrent because we have a non- discriminatory immigration program. Do we discriminate? I suppose we do when we say, ‘There is a particular problem in that country, so we will take more refugees from there at this time.’ So do the government adjust the program to economic conditions and the things that we are doing? Yes, we do. Do I call that discrimination? No, I do not. Do I call it management of our refugee intake program? Yes, I do. That can be influenced in many ways. But basically as a nation we have a non-discriminatory immigration program, so we do not discriminate on race or religion or colour. We do not. We are an amazing country in that, and even more amazing in Victoria than most of the rest of the country, with all due respect to most of you.

CHAIR—That is right.

PETITIONS PET 50 REPS Thursday, 30 October 2008

Mr BROADBENT—These are important issues, but the point that I make is: did we knock back that petition? No.

CHAIR—No, and the reason we did not knock back that petition is that we live in a free country, a democratic society. The petition was in order, so that petition was tabled by me in the federal parliament and it was referred on to the relevant minister. The principal petitioner and the people who signed the petition have a right to find out what the government of the day is going to do or what its feelings are. Once the response comes back, it will be up on the website.

Mr ADAMS—I often feel inadequate in being able to achieve everything that comes before me. You can to try to do your best with integrity and take it upon yourself to achieve what you can achieve in the work that you do.

CHAIR—Any other questions that you want to ask us about any procedure? Please feel free. No? Fine.Extract Mr BROADBENT—I have got a question of Caitlyn. With your surname, have you got any relationship to the Petrie that the federal seat of Petrie was named after?

Miss Petrie—Not that I am aware of, no.

Mr BROADBENT—I would have thought that you had a very close relationship and that you have a great future. Just on the Indigenous issue, can I tell you one story, because we have just got a couple of minutes—if that is all right, Chair?

CHAIR—Fine.

Mr BROADBENT—I was on the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit. We had built a women’s refuge in a particular community. I will not tell you what the community was, but it was a beautiful refuge. I went there by VIP jet, because the only way we could get there in the short time the committee had was to go by jet. It took the whole committee over. We landed on an airstrip. We then took two small planes and then two four-wheel-drive cars to get to the community where the refuge had been built. I come from beautiful Gippsland, where everything is immaculate, everything is beautiful, there is no rubbish on the streets, the cows are all happy in the fields and if we have a bit of dry weather we get upset about it.

We were in a desolate place. There was rubbish everywhere. Every window was barred and grilled. It seemed to me that we were in a place of poverty and destruction. We were meeting, in substandard buildings, with people with poor clothing. There were dogs all over the place and flies and kids and sores—you name it. To me and to my colleague who was with me it was an absolute disaster area. After we had finished our meeting, a lovely young lady from the Department of Justice of the Northern Territory came and sat beside me and said: ‘Mr Broadbent, you must be so thrilled. This place used to be terrible.’ So the issue that came home to me at that time was that we have a long way to go and a lot of work to do. I would say to Alexandra and Caitlyn and Hazel and all of your school colleagues gathered with you today: you are the generation that we are looking to repair and reconcile this situation. We are no longer the generation, but you are the generation who will have the opportunity to make the cultural change that will deal with this issue.

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CHAIR—Thank you very much for that, Deputy Chair. I would like to say thank you for coming today. As I think I stated earlier, and as all of us have, our young people are Australia’s future. Keep those petitions coming. If you are not happy with various aspects of government policy, or whatever, get a petition before the parliament and your voice will be heard. Thank you very much.

Miss Titus—Thank you for having us.

Miss Petrie—Thank you for having us.

CHAIR—Thank you. ExtractProceedings suspended from 2.27 pm to 2.41 pm

PETITIONS