Second Session - Thirty-Fourth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS (HANSARD) 38-39 Elizabeth II Published under the authorityof The Honourable Denis C. Rocan Speaker VOL. XXXVlll No. 1428 - 8 p.m., MONDAY, MARCH 12, 1990. MG-8048 ISSN 0542-5492 Printed by the Office of the Queens Printer, Province of Manitoba MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thi rty-Fourth Legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation NAME CONSTITUENCY PARTY ALCOCK, Reg Osborne LIBERAL ANGUS, John St. Norbert LIBERAL ASHTON, Steve Thompson NOP BURRELL, Parker Swan River PC CARR, James Fort Rouge LIBERAL CARSTAIRS, Sharon River Heights LIBERAL CHARLES, Gwen Selkirk LIBERAL CHEEMA, Guizar Kildonan LIBERAL CHORNOPYSKI, William Burrows LIBERAL CONNERY, Edward, Hon. Portage la Prairie PC COWAN, Jay Churchill NOP CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. Ste. Rose du Lac PC DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. Roblin-Russell PC DOER, Gary Concordia NOP DOWNEY, James, Hon. Arthur PC DRIEDGER, Albert, Hon. Emerson PC DRIEDGER, Herold L. Niakwa LIBERAL DUCHARME, Gerald, Hon. Riel PC EDWARDS, Paul St. James LIBERAL ENNS, Harry, Hon. Lakeside PC ERNST, Jim, Hon. Charleswood PC EVANS, Laurie E. Fort Garry LIBERAL EVANS, Leonard S. Brandon East NOP FILMON, Gary, Hon. Tuxedo PC FINDLAY, Glen, Hon. Virden PC GAUDRV, Neil St. Boniface LIBERAL GILLESHAMMER, Harold Minnedosa PC GRAV, Avis Ellice LIBERAL HAMMOND, Gerrie, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC HARAPIAK, Harry The Pas NOP HARPER, Elijah Rupertsland NOP HELWER, Edward R. Gimli PC HEMPHILL, Maureen Logan NOP KOZAK, Richard J. Transcona LIBERAL LAMOUREUX, Kevin M. lnkster LIBERAL MALOWAV, Jim Elmwood NOP MANDRAKE, Ed Assiniboia LIBERAL MANNESS, Clay ton, Hon. Morris PC McCRAE, James, Hon. Brandon West PC MINENKO, Mark Seven Oaks LIBERAL MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. River East PC NEUFELD, Harold, Hon. Rossmere PC OLESON, Charlotte, Hon. Gladstone PC ORCHARD, Donald, Hon. Pembina PC PANKRATZ, Helmut La Verendrye PC PATTERSON, Allan Radisson LIBERAL PENNER, Jack, Hon. Rhineland PC PLOHMAN, John Dauphin NOP PRAZNIK, Darren Lac du Bonnet PC ROCAN, Denis, Hon. Turtle Mountain PC ROCH, Gilles Springfield LIBERAL ROSE, Bob St. Vital LIBERAL STORIE, Jerry Flin Flon NOP TAYLOR, Harold Wolseley LIBERAL URUSKI, Bill Interlake NOP WASYLYCIA-LEIS, Judy St. Johns NOP YEO, J. Iva Sturgeon Creek LIBERAL LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, March 12, 1990. The House met at 8 p.m. Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, those agencies were set up, I believe in'85, the six in the City of Winnipeg, on Mr. William Chornopyski {Deputy Speaker): On the a regional basis to better, it was felt at the time, address proposed motion by the Honourable Minister of Finance the needs of the communities and the needs of the (Mr. Manness), Bill No. 99, The Appropriation Act ­ families in those communities. It has evolved over time the Honourable Member for Gimli. that they were set up, not with the realization of the increases in caseloads and in problems that they would COMMITTEE CHANGES encounter as the years went past. Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): I have a change I would (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) like to make, please. I move, seconded by the Minister The funding has increased at a rapid rate to those of Labour (M rs. Hammond), that the composition of agencies. The year'85-86 Budget, I believe, was $21 .2 the Standing Committee on Law Amendments for the million or $21.3 million and today is over $41 million Monday evening, 8 p.m. session, be amended as allocated to the Child and Family Services area of the follows: Penner for Findlay. department. I do not mean just those six agencies, but the other agencies as well. That is almost a doubling Mr. Deputy Speaker: Agreed? Agreed and so ordered. in five years-well, four budgets, I guess- of funding On the proposed motion by the Honourable Minister to those particular organizations. Yet the constant , of Finance (Mr. Manness), Bill No. 99, The Appropriation problem seems to be that their caseloads exceed their Act- the Honourable Member for Flin Flon. funding. So as I had indicated last week, we have undertaken a program to get them better stabilized Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon): Before the Honourable and better organized, shall we say, with the hope that Member begins her remarks, could I make a committee we will not be in this deficit situation forever. change? * (2005) I move, seconded by the Member for Kildonan (Mr. Cheema), that t he Standing Committee on Law They have agreed to work with the Government and Amendments be amended: Storie for Plohman. the department as partners in attempting to rationalize this system. Now, we know that the caseloads have Mr. Deputy Speaker: Agreed? Agreed and so ordered. increased rapidly. We know that the funds have not, over the years, kept up. If we had inherited the base ADJOURNED DEBATE that perhaps we should have, we would not be in the ON SECOND READINGS problem we are today with trying to keep those agencies afloat. We have indicated to them on many occasions BILL NO. 99 that service to children is paramount. That is the THE APPROPRIATION ACT, 1989 purpose that they are there. That is the mandate they have to serve and that working together, we should be Mr. Deputy Speaker: On the proposed motion of the able to achieve that. Honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), Bill No. 99, The Appropriation Act, 1989 (Loi de 1989 portant I know there has been some criticism of the way we affectation de credits). The Honourable Minister of have done this. Last year, we told them a very similar Family Services (Mrs. Oleson) has six minutes remaining. thing. We said, okay, we will fund your deficits, but only your actual deficits. Now, they projected deficits in Hon. Charlotte Oleson {Minister of Family Services): excess of $2 million. When we got to the final tally M r. Deputy Speaker, because of the agreement with after actuals, we found with some measures taken by the Bill 104, I was discussing some of the matters, boards at the insistence of the department and at their fi nancial and ot herwise, that are pertinent t o my own initiative the deficits were $1 .7 million. So it can Department of Family Services, how they relate to the be done, Mr. Speaker, it can be. By working closely budget, and how they relate to the various groups in with the department, we can achieve some sense out society that are funded by my department. of this and we found-we did last year anyway- that their needs were not as great at the end of the year. In the remaining very short time that is allocated to This year we have set up a deficit relief fund that they me for this speech, I would just like to touch on a can draw on with approved expenditures after the couple of more items that pertain to my department, actuals have been tallied. So hopefully, working in this very vital parts of the department. One of those is the way, we will be able to better serve the children of Child and Family Servi ce Agencies that provide this Manitoba. service to children in the province, who are in the City of Winnipeg and some of the outlining areas, who are Also in the same directive that I gave them last week, in need of protection from, in many cases, their own we have set up a special needs fund, or a special parents and others and the problems that are in circumstances fund, that will assist agencies that have connection with the financing of those agencies. c ases of children who exceed the needs of that 5866 Monday, March 12, 1990 established beyond Level 2, which is, I believe, $81 a by overexpenditures of the funds of the Province of day. Now this will go to some measure to help those Manitoba, whether it was within Crown corporations, agencies because some of their cases that are really Manitoba Telephone System, MTX, some $27 million causing problems are the extremely high-need cases to Saudi Arabia, whether it was the mishandling of the that go beyond that figure. We are telling them that automobile company, the Autopac and the Public anything above that figure the department will be asked Insurance Corporation which, in fact, was again another to approve and then pay the bill. In that way we should major nail in the coffin of the New Democratic Party be able to relieve them of some of those particular when in the December, January period prior to the problems, but there is a lot of work to be done yet, March of 1988, had in fact gone up by probably an Mr. Speaker, in that area. We know we do not have average of some $100 per vehicle. all the answers there. I do not think anybody has, but When one looked into it further, not only did we see it is something we are working 011 with the agencies them experimenting and playing around in re-insurance and hoping for their co-operation ·to resolve this. of worldwide activities, but when one were to check We do not have endless sums of money to donate closer to find out what happened through the Minister's to any area of my department or any other, but we do office, we found that many of the records had been want to work with people co-operatively because I think shredded by the Member for Gimli, who was the Minister we all have the same goal in the long run. Thank you, responsible. Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, so we have to think back to that particular period of time and really celebrate.