FifthSession • Thirty-Fifth Legislature

of the

Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES - and PROCEEDINGS

(Hansard)

Published rtnderthe authorityof The HoMurtlbleDenis C. Rocan Speaker

-

Vol. XLDI No. 10 • 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, April 20, 1994

ISSNOS42-S492 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-FifthLegislature

Members, Constituencies aodPoUtical AfiiUatioo

NAME CONSTITUENCY PARTY. ASHI'ON, Steve Thompson NDP BARRETI,Becky Wellington NDP CARSTAIRS,Sharon River Heights Liberal CERll.LI, Marianne Radisson NDP CHOMIAK, Dave Kildonan NDP CUMMINGS,Glen, Hon. Ste.Rose PC DACQUAY, Louise Seine River PC DERKACH, Leonard,Hon. Roblin-Russell PC DEWAR,Gregory Selkirk NDP DOER, Gary Concordia NDP DOWNEY, James, Hon. Arthur-Virden PC DRIEDGER,Albert, Hon. Steinbach PC DUCHARME,Gerry, Hon. Riel PC EDWARDS,Paul St. James Liberal ENNS, Harry,Hon. Lakeside PC - ERNST,Jim, Hon. Charleswood PC EVANS,Clif Interlake NDP EVANS,Leonard S. Brandon East NDP FILMON, Gary, Hon. Tuxedo PC FINDLAY,Glen, Hon. Springfield PC FRIESEN, Jean Wolseley NDP GAUDRY, Neil St. Boniface Liberal Gll.LESHAMMER,Harold, Hon. Minnedosa PC GRAY,Avis Crescentwood Liberal HELWER , Edward R. Gimli PC IDCKES,George Point Douglas NDP KOWALSKI,Gary The Maples Liberal LAMOUREUX,Kevin Inkster Liberal LATHLIN,Oscar The Pas NDP LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert PC MACKlNTOSH,Gord St. Johns NDP MALOWAY,Jim Ehnwood NDP MANNESS,Clayton, Hon. Morris PC MARTINDALE,Doug Burrows NDP

McALPINE,Gerry Sturgeon Creek PC - McCORMICK,Norma Osborne Liberal McCRAE, James, Hon. Brandon West PC MciNTOSH, Linda,Hon. Assiniboia PC MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. River East PC ORCHARD,Donald. Hon. Pembina PC PALLISTER, Brian Portage Ia Prairie PC PENNER, Jack Emerson PC PLOHMAN,John Dauphin NDP PRAZNIK, Darren,Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC REID, Daryl Transcona NDP REIMER, Jack Niakwa PC RENDER,Shirley St. Vital PC ROBINSON, Eric Rupertsland NDP ROCAN, Denis, Hon. Gladstone PC ROSE, Bob Turtle Mountain PC SANTOS, Conrad Broadway NDP SCHELLENBERG,Harry Rossmere NDP STEFANSON,Eric, Hon. Kirkfield Parle PC STORIE, Jerry FlinFlon NDP SVEINSON,Ben La Verendrye PC VODREY, Rosemary, Hon. Fort Garry PC WOWCHUK, Rosann Swan River NDP 433

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

VVednesday,April20,1994

The House met at 1:30 p.m. expressed by the licensing and standards body of nurses? PRAYERS Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Mr. Introductionof Guests Speaker, over the years, the Health Sciences Centre has provided very important and quality Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I health care services to Manitobans, and it is my direct the attention of honourable members to the full expectation that hospital and others in gallery where we have with us thisafternoon from Manitoba willcontinue to do so. theMennonite Collegiate Institute eighteen Grade 9 students under the direction of Ms. Crystal That will be done with the help and input from Martens. nursing professionals, doctors and other he alth This school is located in the constituency of the care providers and with full knowledge and honourable memberfor Emerson (Mr.Penner). awareness of theviews of health care consumers.

On behalf of all honourable members, I would Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, if the minister had like to welcome you here this afternoon. received these types of concerns raised by the College of Physicians and Surgeons, or ifhe had ROUTINEPROCEEDINGS had these concernsraised by the Law Society when he was Minister of Justice, would he have ORAL QUESTION PERIOD not immediately at least expressed an intention to Health SciencesCentre look into the matterson behalf of thelicensing and ChiefExecutive Nurse professional body?

Mr. Dave Chomiak (KB.donan): Mr. Speaker, I Mr. McCrae: Mr. Speaker, I am mindful of the am sure the minister is aware that the proposed concern raised by the Manitoba Association of - restructuring of the Health Sciences Centre has Registered Nurses, and I am sure the caused a greatdeal of concern,to say the least. administrationat Health Sciences Centre and other hospitals are taking into account the views and Whileno one wantsto micromanage thehospital concerns of regulatory and professional fromthis Legis lature, is the minister not concerned organizations like the MARN in the making of that MAR N, which is the professional and theirplans for the future. standards licensing body of the nurses, has expressed concerns that at Health Sciences Centre, Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, my final in -terms of the restructuring, a chief executive supplementary: Will the minister at least assure nurseought to be maintained at Health Sciences, a this House that he will look into the concerns chief executive nurse should represent nurses at raised by MAR N, particularly those relating to theboard and executive levels, nurses be involved standard of care, and petbaps meet with them to in setting consistent patient nursing practice discuss thisissue? guidelines, and nurses be part of an ongoing Mr. McCrae: Mr. Speaker, it has been my very analysis of the program and its impact on the great pleasure to meet on a frequent basis with quality of health care? representatives of the Manitoba Association of Can the minister outline what the government's Registered Nurses as well as other regulatory and position is with respect to this concern, as political organizations aswe develop a sustainable, 434 LEGISLATIVEASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 20, 1994

quality health care system for all Manitobans for jobs, I would ask him: Would he really in his many, many generations to come. capacity as minister reviewthis situation and have • (1335) the decision reversed to allow an investment of new toll-switching equipment in Brandon to Manitoba Telephone System-Brandon ensure thatit will continue as it has over the years Job Relocation to be partof the long distance routing process, and Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Mr. let us keep those 15 jobs in Brandon? Speaker, this government bas often boasted about Mr. Findlay: Mr. Speaker, I know that member its decentralization program, and now we learn would like to interfere in everything the Crown that Brandon could lose as many as 15 technical coiporations do. jobs at the Manitoba Telephone System, with a This government wants to allow the managers of payroll of $575,000, because of a decision to close - those Crown coiporations to operate and manage down the existing long distance toll switches in responsibly, and they are. That member will not Brandonin September. agree with that, I know, as he did not agree to The option of locating new equipment in putting over a hundred jobs in his own city in Brandon as well as Winnipeg was rejected in Brandon. favour of centralization in Winnipeg. I will not interfere with MTS trying to deliver How can the Minister of MTS justify the the best quality service to its users in Manitoba at removal of jobs from Brandon in light of his the lowest possible price, and I will not interfere government's professed policy of with their management process, provided they are decentralization? following thatcriteria.

Bon. GlenFindlay (Minister responsible fo r the Mr.Leo nard Evans: Mr. Speaker, let us not hear administration of The Manitoba Telephone anymore about the sanctimonious decentralization Act): Mr. Speaker, the issue of having policies of thisgovernment. telecommunications jobs in Winnipeg or Can the minister tell us bow many other jobs elsewhere in Manitoba applies to all types of will be lost in the near future through the positions. termination of other programs such as FRED, - That member, when over a hundred jobs were which is the emergency dispatch program? The announced for Brandon from OWE, he spoke local stafffear that another 25 jobs, with a payroll against it. He was not in favour of having an of $839,000, will be lost within the next year additional 115 jobs in Brandon by a private because of continued cutbacks at MTS in Brandon. operation-new jobs. Mr. Findlay: Mr. Speaker, if he wants to go into Manitoba Telephone System has a mission of that kind of detail with the management, we will supplying quality service to Manitobans at the have a review of the annual report of Manitoba lowest possible price, and they aredoing that in the Telephone System in due course, and I askhim to process of managing their affairs, but that member raise all those questions at that time. spoke against over a hundred jobs being moved into Brandon by OWE. KaliS hiva Society Mr.Leonard Evans: Mr.Speaker, I did not speak Funding against the jobs, I spoke against the waste of Ms. Norma McCormick (Osborne): Mr. money and political advertising by th is Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Health. government andthe fact that they gave $600,000 On February 28, 1994, I wrote to this minister when they are cutting back on home care. with respect to a funding request to his department Mr. Speaker, my question to the minister: Since to secure the future of the Kali Shiv a Society. Kali he bas confirmed that we are going to lose these Shiva is an important community resource, April 20, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLYOF MANITOBA 435

providing home care and support to people who Mr. McCrae: Mr. Speaker, I do not think it is a are dying with AIDS. question of indecision. I think in my first answer perhaps I wasnot as clear as I should be. 1bis remarlcable group of 80 volunteers, acting aspart of a care team, arenow providing care to 16 At thistime, I do not seethat we areable to assist people. The budget of Kali Sbiva is $72,000, Kali Shiva with a financial grant, but we will be extremelymodest considering theyhave provided interested to continue to see how Kali Shiva support for half the peoplewho have died of AIDS performs in helping its clients. Perhaps at some in this province. point in the future, we can address the matter again. Mr. Speaker, the request of this organization is for $20,000. As of last evening, when this Ms. McCormick: Mr. Speaker, would the volunteer board met- ministersupport an arran gement similarto the deal made between Seven Oaks Hospital and We Care - Mr.Speaker: Question, please. for the discharge of terminallyill AIDS patients to Ms. McCormick: Mr. Speaker, will the minister their homes to the responsibility of volunteer care please advise whenhe will respond to Kali Sbiva? teamsco-ordinated by Kali Shiva?

• (1340) Mr. McCrae: Mr. Speaker, without knowing all the details of the honourable member'sproposal, I Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Mr. would be interested in sitting down with her and Speaker, I met some time ago with the Kali Shiva discussing it. Society and commended them for the worlt they do, extremely compassionate woik they do, and verymuch of it volunteer. Royal Bank of Canada Main and Selkirk Branch Closure Theyhave askedthe government for assistance, Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): Mr. as haveso many otherorganizations that just want to be of help and assistance.We wantto beof help Speaker, I have recently learned that the Royal Bank located at Main and Selkirk in the and assistance in every way that we can too, constituencyof Point Douglasis planning to close always recognizing the fiscalproblems that we itsdoors to thepublic in Septemberof 1994. I have have and other governments have right across the contactedthe district manager and the managerfor - country. the Royal Bank,who have confirmedthese plans. Even though I am not able to give a positive Banking services have been available in this response to Sbiva's request at time, I am Kali this community for many, many years, and many of very interested in continuing to see what they can these long-standing customers of this branch are do for theirclients and the alleviation of suffering seniorsand have limited accessto transportation. that they can bring, and there may be some other way in the future that the government might be Mr. Speaker, will theMinister responsible for Seniors speak out for these long-standing able to help, Mr. Speaker. customers and arrange to meet with Ms. McCormick: To the same minister, Mr. representativesof theRoyal Bank to seeif there is Speaker, Kali Shiva is having a hard time a way to keep this branch operating at its present continuing in the faceof such indecision. Mainand Se lkirlc location? Will the minister advise this House: What are Hon. Gerald Ducharme (Minister responsible thespecifics and time lines of theconsultation, and fo r Seniors): Mr. Speaker, we know how will the minister expedite the consultation to important it is to have banking throughout the ensure that Kali Shiva, who want to participate, neighbourhoods. However, if the member across will in fact still be around to do so? the way-it is the first I have heard about it- 436 LEGISLATIVEASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April20, 1994

would like to send me the correspondence in I will provide him even with a video, showing the regard to this bank, I willlook into the matter. financial problems, that was contributed to and �.Enckes:�. Speake�I think it is about time helped by the banks across Canada that saw that that theMinister for Seniors stood up on behalf of there were necessary conditions andhelp required. seniors in Manitoba. • (1345) If the minister is able to arrange this meeting Northern Airports with the bank, which he should, will he make sure Emergency Response Services that the rest of the community, theaboriginals, the seniors,the-[inteijection] Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I believe it was Friday last that the member for Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Rupertsland (�. Robinson) asked a couple of member for Point Douglas, to finish with his - questions of me which I took as notice and I am question. happy to respond to today. �. Enckes:�. Speaker, if the minister is able to Themember asked I would contact the federal arrange a meeting, will he ensure that the if government to request that the emergency aboriginal community, the seniors, thecommunity response services at the Churchill airport not be representatives are invited to that meeting to discontinued as planned in light of the increase in expresstheir concerns? activity occurring at the airport due to the �. Ducharme: Firstof all,�. Speaker, I would reactivation of therocket range and other pending suggest to the memberacross the way that usually initiatives in ChUIChill. the banks in those types of jurisdictions are Apparently, �. Speaker, upon investigation, involving his federal people that he knows, and thequestion of the member for Rupertslandon this maybehe knows who theM.P. is in thatarea. I am subject is based upon an unfounded rumour. We not awareof who theM.P. is. are advised by Transport Canada that there are I must say that this Seniors Directorate that we currently no plans to either eliminate or reduce have, unlike the previous administration when it emergency response service at the Churchill was established in '88, was to stand up for seniors, airport or any other northern airportunder federal - and we have done that throughout the province of administration. Manitoba. There has been discussion in the past as to Mr. Hickes: Because there are so many other whether or not the three-minute response time services that arebeing moved out of theinner city, standard applicable to all federal airport ERS is will the minister ensure that when he is at the appropriatefor more remote low-volume aiiports. meeting with the branches to inquire if there are However, thereare no plansto change the standard further closures of more banks in the Point for northern airports being considered at this time. Douglas area? If and when the plans to reduce ERS at northern Mr. Ducharme: �. Speaker, the member from airports are to be considered, the Manitoba across the way seems to want to blame banks for government expects to be consulted by Transport everything. He fails to realize, if you look through Canada prior to any decision being made. There his notes, for the seniors the banks were very, very areno plans to reduceERS at airportsadministered accommodating when we were going through the by Manitoba. seniors financial abuse system in providing help The second question that I took as notice, �. with the video and help with dealing with seniors Speaker, was to request that the Minister of across Canada. Highways and Transportation(�. Findlay) put on I suggest he go back and start reading some of hold anypl anned reductions to northernairports in theinfonnation that we have been puttingforward. Manitoba. Apri120, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA. 437

Manitoba continues to operate its northern The Seniors Directorate has not beensilent. The provincial airportswith no basic change in policy, Seniors Directorate, through the process, day in with efforts continually dedicated to providing and day out, is answering seniors' questions every improved emergency response services. For day, dealing with the individual ministers along example,a new firetruck has been provided at the the way. We have just set up a committee to look Norway House airport. Plans are also being into personal care homes. We have set up a developed for future upgrading of ERS training committee and we have workedwith senior abuse facilities to increase employee proficiency in this andelderly abuse acrossthe province. area In regardto theHandi- Transit,Mr. Speaker,the The1994-95 budget includesstaffing reductions Minister of Urban Affairs (Mrs.Mcinto sh) has on at five airports that include Berens River, St. and on explainedthat we have increasedthe Urban TheresaPoint, Gods LakeNarr ows, York Landing Affairs grant by $4 million in this particular year

- andIsland Lake, involving sixjanitorial and flight and that they could use that $4 million to handle servicepositions. Thesestaff have receivedwritten the shortfallthat theyhave in Handi-Transit. noticeof theirlayoff date of Apri128. The17 other northern airports will not experience any staffing Council on Aging reductions.It isexpected that these reductionswill Responsibility not adversely affect theairport services, including Mr. Conrad Santos (Broadway): My emergencyresponse services. supplementaryquestion then, Mr. Speaker,is: Can The emergency response services training the honourable Minister responsible for Seniors programwill also not be affected andwill continue explain why an organizational unit called the to exceed Transport Canada's standards for Council on Aging, which presently is with the training. Department of Health, is being transferred to the SeniorsDirectorate? Social Program Reductions Minister'sPosition Can there be another reason other than some pre-election ploy that the Seniors Directorate is Mr. Conrad Santos (Broadway): Mr. Speaker, doingsomething forthe seniors? my questionis directedto thehonourable Minister Hon. Gerald Ducharme (Minister responsible responsiblefor Seniors. for Seniors): Mr. Speaker, I am surprised the There is a well-knownsaying in our society and memberwould even have to ask that. most other societies:To besilent meansto consent. The Council on Aging has always come under When thisgovernment cut basicsocial programs in the platform of the Department of Health, years this province, like health care, home care and and years ago. They not only just handle health, Pharmacare, the honourable Minister responsible theyhandle transportation, they handle everything for Seniorshas kept himself silent, makinga public that is dealing with seniors-pension plans, et perception that he is consenting to all these cuts cetera It was the idea of the Seniors minister to adverselyaffecting our senior citizens. have them come over so that we can have a better Can the honourable minister explain why he has gauge on working with the different departments been so silent when there was a cut in the so that they continue to work throughout Handi-Transit which adversely affected our Manitoba. handicappedand disabled senior citizens? It was the idea to enhancethat particularCouncil • (1350) on Agingboard so that they have that message. Hon. Gerald Ducharme (Minister responsible Mr. Santos: My final supplementary, Mr. fo r Seniors): Mr. Speaker, I do not respect the Speaker, is: How much will this transfer cost and questions given to me by my friend acrossthe way. what good will it do? What changewill it make for 438 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Apri120, 1994

those functions that were already being perfonned line that Paul Tellier has beenpushing. I recently by the Council on Aging? received a letter.

Mr. Ducharme: Mr. Speaker, the cost is I would like to ask the minister ifhe is satisfied absolutely no more than it was theyear before. that eliminating section crews in Thicket Portage, The idea is to bring the Council on Aging under Pikwitonei, Dford and many stops along the line the umbrella of the Seniors minister. Day in and will maintain safety when safety is already a day out, they askyou to contact different ministers concern. on what is going on in the Seniors Directorate. There was recently a derailment, two years ago, Now the Council on Aging will answer directly to and one of the factors there was lack of existing the Minister responsible for Seniors. maintenance.

CN Rail How can the minister be satisfied with these - Safety Issues-NorthernManitoba empty promises from CN?

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Mr. Speaker, Mr. Findlay: Mr. Speaker, I am sorry, but Mr. transportation is very important to northern Tellier and CN are a very respected Crown Manitoba, and currently northerners are anxiously corporation in this country. If they make a awaiting developments in three areas where the statement that they are going to respect safety and federal government is either looking directly at maintain the service, I have to accept that.

cuts or hascmrently implemented cuts. I can assure you, our department will be very I would like to askthe Minister of Highways and cognizant and watching very carefully to be sure Transportation what the provincial position is in that the commitment they have made in terms of regard to these very serious cuts. maintaining service andmaintaining safety on that line is lived up to. Fll'St of all , I would like to ask the Minister of Highways and Transportation if he has met with Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, I would suggest the CN officials-! believe he recently had the minister not accept those empty promises. opportunity to do s�. if so, if he has raised the concern of the province over the major cuts ThompsonAirport that have taken place in terms of section crews in Control Tower Closure - northern Manitoba. Many communities have had Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): I have a final the entire section crews eliminated, Mr. Speaker, question.It also relatesto the same area in terms of and there are very serious concerns about safety. transportation and safety, and it is in regard to the What action has the minister taken to raise this potential closure of the control tower in concern with CN? Thompson. The Department of Transport is Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and currently reviewing that. Therewas a meeting held Transportation): Mr. Speaker, yes, I have met February 14. Many people are very concerned, with CN and raised the issue, and I am pleased to many users, many peoplein the community, about report that CN has given a commitment to me to this closure. maintain that line to Churchill, a very strong I would like to ask the minister if he has ever commitment, stronger than I have heard in the been with Transport Canada to raise the concern past many have expressed about the potential impacton They said that whatever decisions they will safety of this closure. make will not affect service on that line or safety Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and on the line. Transportation): Mr. Speaker, there are many Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, I am surprised the airports in the North, some of which are minister would accept that, and I know that is the maintained by thedepartment, some by Transport April20, 1994 LEGISLATIVEASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 439

Canada, and the issue of safety is very prevalent budget. Whether they are sufficient or not at this for allof us. point in time I do not know, but certainly a I can assure the member, we have talked to significant amount of funding bas been put aside them, we will continue to talk to them, and the for that school. issue of safety of the operation of that aiiport will Mr. Edwards: Well, I am very pleased to bear be fust andforemost in our minds. that, Mr. Speaker. I know that there bas been a lot of difficulty in dealing with the Winnipeg School • (1355) Division No. 1 board, which has really sat on this GreenwaySchool for quite a long time. Replacement Mr.Speaker, my furtherquestion to the minister: Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second I am led to believe that in fact a comprehensive Opposition): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the assessment bas been done by the Public Schools Minister of Education. Finance Board. Barbara McFarlane, Q.C., has Greenway Schoolis a school locatedin the west indicated publicly that that is the case and that it end of Winnipeg, my constituency. For a number will be coming to completion in the very near of years, all interestedparties have recognizedthat future. Thoseare herwords. that school needed either to be replaced or I wonder if the Minister of Finance in fact has renovated. Approximately three years ago the thatcomprehensive assessment. If bedoes haveit, parents' council at thatschool was advised by the is be prepared to table it in the House so that the Public Schools Fmance Board that in fact they parentscan also take a lookat it? were No . 1 on the list for renovation or Mr. Manness: Well, Mr. Speaker, I do not have replacement. particulardebate has beengoing This that, and I do not know whether it has been past on forabout, as I say, seven years. practice to table all of the assessments that have I wonder if theMinister of Education can report been done on all of the public school plants or, if be does not have the materials here today, throughout the province, but I will take the agree to report on the progress towards coming to questionunder advisement. a resolution at the Public Schools Finance Board Mr. Edwards: Mr. Speaker, finally, for the area about whether or not the parents in that will minister on this issue: Will the minister, ifin fact get a new school for children or a renovated their befinds that a comprehensive assessment hasbeen school,keeping in mindof course their preference, completed, which I believe it has, agree today that which is a replacedschool. whetheror not that comprehensive assessment can Bon. Clayton Manness (Minister ofEducation be made public or not that there will be a and Training): Mr. Speaker, from recollection it discussion with the parents of that area? They are seems to me that a decision is coming very not pleased with theschool board's response.It has quickly. Maybe therewill finally be an endto this been yearsand years of puttingthis off. discussion aroundthis particular school. Will bemake a commitment that the parentswill I am led to believe that the school board finally be brought into this process?They have very clear bas decided which of the two choices they would views. They want a new school, andthey want it as prefer to take with respect to either refurbishing soon aspossible. the old school plus a build-on and/or building a Mr. Manness: Mr.Speaker, I do not know what it whole newschool. is the member is asking. The departmentis always I think that the school division, Winnipeg No. l, prepared, and at times I know ministers past and bas now chosen, and I can tell you that there are indeed myself, in the shorttime that I have been in funds that have been set aside by the Public this position, have listened to community groups Schools Finance Board, I believe, in the '92-93 come forward with respect to their requests, 440 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April20, 1994

legitimatein most cases,as to how they would like services of road maintenance in the province of to see or why they would like to see a school built Manitoba. now rather than in the future, but those final Mr. Dewar: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the decisionsare ultimatelymade, as you know,by the FirstMinister (Mr. Ftlmon) then. Public Schools Fmance Board, in fairness to the process. Will be take some leadership and demand that these jobs remain in Selkirk? If the member is saying that be would like his constituents to have an opportunity to make a • (1400) presentation to me, in essence outside of the Mr. Findlay: Mr. Speaker, if there are questions Winnipeg School Division board, well, I am about where staff are located-we have about prepared to certainlylisten to his constituents. 2,300 in the department-we will discuss it in - Estimates. The budget will be tabled this Departmentof Highways-Selkirk afternoon, and the Estimates will follow. If that Job Relocations member wants to have the Highways Estimates Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, first,be should request to his House leader. my questions are for the Minister of Highways (Mr. Findlay). Transcona-Springtield School Division Parent-TeacherDays Over the pastnumber of years, we on this side of the House have been raising concems about this Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Mr. Speaker, I government playing politics with public sector have written a letter to the Minister of Education jobs in this province. We have seen cabinet outlining some of the effects of the cuts on the ministers move jobs from one community to classrooms in Transcona-Springfield School another to advance their own political Division. fortunes-the Minister of Rural Development I would like to ask the minister ifbe does not moving housing jobsfrom Swan River to Dauphin. thinkthat parent-teacherdays that help parentsand Our concems, once again, have been expressed teachers develop a relationship to consistently that this government is considering moving 25 worlcwith childrenare important in this province. - Department of Highways jobs from Selkirk to Will be make sure that the lack of professional Beausejour. Thesame minister, earlierin Question development days does not affect parent-teacher Period, said he would not politically interfere with interview time so that this co-operation and thetransferring of government jobs. partnership between parents and teachers will be My question is to the Minister of Highways. maintained? Will he end the speculation and stand up in this Bon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Education Chamber today and categorically state that he will and Training): Mr. Speaker, let me say, certainly not allow those jobs to leave our community? the government senses that professional Bon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and development days are important. Transportation): The member wants to interfere As a matter of fact, the very same formula that with the management of, not in this case a Crown the member for Dauphin (Mr. Plobman) has been corporation, but the management of a department, berating day after day when it was brought in by Mr.Speaker. Pretty well all of what be put on the the member for Roblin-Rossell (Mr. Derlcach) had record were ill-founded statements and for the first time ever funding factors that were allegations. related to professional development days. That is Mr. Speaker, the department will manage the the seriousness with which this government is staff as they see fit to efficiently deliver the taking that whole approach to development. April 20, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 441

Mr. Speaker, as you can recall, when the Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Mr. government brought in Bill 22, we asked, Speaker, in the discussions we bad the other day basically, through that-and I dare say because of about emergency rooms in the city of Winnipeg, I the power of this Legislature, 100,000 public neglected to mention that the projected statistics sectoremployees wereimpacted, peoplewho more for 1993-94 show that overall emergency activity or less draw their remuneration from the public in that year declined by over 13,000visits from the purse. previous year. What we saw last weekend was a

There was one group in society, of course, who very, very busy weekend. We acknowledge that, chose not to voluntarily be part of that and, of but the fact isthat our emergency rooms are, on the course, we then gave the employers, the local whole, facing less pressure than they were school division, an opportunity if they so chose to previously. meet, to match their balance, to use the powers With respect to Concordia specifically, we can under Bill 22 to make it fair for everybody who get together with the honourable member to draws funding from the public purse. provide the information he is looking for or take the question as notice and provide himwith further Safety Issues information. Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Mr. Speaker, Mr. Schellenberg: Are any additional services another area in theschools that is being affected is going to be added to the emergency ward? the safety of children. There is a problem with increased class sizes of chemistry laboratories, Mr.McCrae: I willbe looking at the performance industrial arts programs, exceeding the ratio of of the emergency services offered in the city of staffto teacher which makesit safe. Winnipeg with the assistance of the Emergency Services Task Force that has done work on Can the Minister of Education ensure that emergency services and, as decisions are made in teacher andstudent safety isnot being jeopardized the future about that, I will make them known to by the cuts by overcrowding in these kinds of the honourable member. classrooms? I appreciate the approach the honourable Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister ofEducation member uses in asking hisquestions. Theyare nice and Training): Mr.Speaker, as I stand here, I am and short. quite certain thatsafety is not being impacted but, - if it were, I am sure the Minister of Labour (Mr. CT Scanning-Outpatient Services Pramik)would know of it and,indeed, hisofficials would take action with respect to that issue Mr. Harry Schellenberg (Rossmere): The CAT immediately. scan was another issue of great concern to Concordia Hospital Rossmere residents. During the by-election, Emergency Ward Status promises weremade to fully implement theuse of a CAT scan. When will outpatient services be in Mr. Harry Schellenberg (Rossmere): Mr. full use? Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Health Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): (Mr. McCrae). Scanning services are available now, as I As we all know, the Concordia Hospital was understand it, to Concordia Hospital to their front and centre in the September by-election. I inpatients, people who are admitted patients. received many phone calls not only over the Outpatients will be dealt with as we look at the patient backup in the hallways but over the fear continuing evolution of CAT scanning servicesin that the emergency ward would be closed. the city of Winnipeg. We now have all the Could the minister give the long-range status of hospitals working together and the scanning the emergency ward? committee also giving advice about bow best to 442 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April20, 1994

handle scanning services so that patients receive complete details on certain projects, and itis not the best care we can possibly provide to them. I one where we have any inp ut as ministers. will keep the honourable member infonned as I have received a copy of the proposal that was developmentschange. submitted by Dauphin. It is certainly one that is being supported by the municipalities around InfrastructureWorks Agreement Dauphin and the various agencies, but I would RecreationalComplex-Parkland Region suggest to the member for Dauphin that this is something that is being considered by the advisory Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): Mr. Speaker, the committee, and we will await their infrastructure programs were-the first level of recommendation on that project. approvals tookplace a number of weeks ago. One of those projects thatwas not included was a major Mr.Plohman: Well, Mr. Speaker, I hope that the - project for the Parkland region including, as minister will be supporting that project. applied for by the Town of Dauphin, the rural • (14 10) municipalit y as well as supported by a number of Infrastructure Works Agreement other groups,36 agencies and communities in the NorthernManitoba Parkland region, a major recreation complex which would have shared funding by all three Mr.John Plohman (Dauphin): I also want to ask levels of governmentand private sources. thePremier, in light of the decision that was made by the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Praznik) I want to ask the Minister of Rural to refuse to provide infonnation on the Northern Development, in light of the importance of this Affairs communities projects and put them project to the Parkland and in light of the fact that forward for consideration under the infrastructure the Southport Pool recreationprogram or proposal program, which really, I can say, let down those was approved, what the criteria are for recreation communities who desperately need this kind of projects under this program and whether the employment and projects, whether the Premier is proposal that has been made by the Parkland assuring that Northern Association of Community through the recreation complex meets those Councils communities such as Wateihen, Rock requirements. Ridge, Meadow Portage, Camperville, Crane - Bon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural River, communities such as those will be Development): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to considered in the next round of approvals for the respond to the question on the infrastructure infrastructureprogram. programbecause, asis noted by many newspapers Bon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Yes, I can assure across Manitoba, the infrastructure program is the member for Dauphin that they will be certainlyhaving a verypositive impact on manyof considered,Mr. Speaker. our communities throughout the province.

I should point out, though, that the criteria the InfrastructureWorks Agreement advisory committeeis currently working under are F1inFlon Water Treatment Plant the criteria that were established when the Mr. Jerry Storie (Fiin Flon): Mr. Speaker, I agreement was signed between the federal appreciate hearing that assurance from the First government and the provincial government so, Minister. therefore, the advisory committee is working While theFirst Minister is in the moodto answer under that set of criteria, and they are the ones who questions, peihaps he will indicate whether a arerecommending whichpro jects should proceed. proposal that was put forward by the City of F1in Now, during their examination of these projects, Flon for the upgrade of the water treatment plant, the advisory committee is certainly asking which followed as a result of the 19 91 communities for more information and more En vironmental Impact Assessment, which April20, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLYOF MANITOBA 443

highlighted the fact that the primary treatment So I am recessingthe House now till2:3 0. which occurs in Flin Flon is not acceptable-it The House recessedat 2:12p.m. does not meet current standards-will the First Minister (Mr. Ftlmon) and the Minister of Rural AfterRecess Development (Mr. Derkacb) be recommending that thismajor project to improve the water quality The House reswnedat 2:30pm. in the F1inFlon areawill be proceeding? • (1430) Because of the necessity of this project Hon. Eric Stefanson (Ministerof Finance): Mr. proceeding environmentally and because The Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Municipal Act prevents the City of Flin Flon Environment (Mr. Cummings), that this House currently from borrowing additional money to approve in general the budgetary policy of the finance the project independently, will special government. consideration be given? Motionpresented. Will this important city in our province get the support that it deserves? BUDGET ADDRESS Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Eric Stefanson (Ministerof Finance): Mr. member .knows full well that this government bas Speaker, I am honoured to present our done a considerable amountto recognize all of the government's seventh budget to the Legislative areas of Manitoba, particularly the North. Assembly andthe peopleof Manitoba. Some $55 million was put into the upgrade of Founded on the aspirations, energy and the smelter in F1inFlon to ensurethat there wasthe enthusiasm of Manitobans and their families, this continued employment of thousands of people and budget contains initiatives aimed at meeting the opportunity to strengthen the community. So today's challenges while continuing to build a we will certainly be reviewing all of the various strong andsecure future. applications. Manitobans have a clearly defined set of goaJs As I have indicated before, the applications to and objectives for their lives and for their the infrastructure program are almost three times children's future. They want secure jobs. They as great in dollar volume as the amount of money wanttheir children to have an education thatwill - that is available through the program, so priority enable them to be successful in a highly choices have to be made, and certainly we will be competitive labour market. They want to be part of, along with our partners, the municipal confident that our health care system and social government and its representatives and the federal safety net will be accessible and effective far into government and its representatives, the the future. They want a balanced budget free from co-operative effortto try and ensure thatwe areas mounting deficits which threaten vital human fairas possible in the decisions we make. services. They want to be able to walk on their Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions bas streets and in their neighbourhoods in safety and expired. without fear.

Order, please. The hour being2: 12, I am going These goaJs wereexpressed manytimes inmany to be recessing the House till2:3 0, but what I will different ways during the round of public do, at 2:29, I will ring the bells for a minute. We consultations undertaken before the finaJ drafting will have one minute's warning, and I will resume of the budget. In Winnipeg, Br andon, and the Chair at 2:30. This will allow the gallery Thompson, in Portage Ia Prairie, Altona and attendants an opportunity to clear out thegalleries, Russell, Manitobans from all walks of life and only the guests with a specially maxked budget provided their perspectives on the challenges pass will be allowed to remain. facing our province. But most importantly, they 444 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLYOF MANITOBA April20, 1994

provided their best advice on what can and should development has more than doubled under our be done to meetthose challenges. government. Since 1990, our exports to the United It wasnot sutprisingfor me to learnthat so many States have grown by 40 percent. In 1993, our rate Manitobans have the same concerns, have the of job creation was third best in Canada. same hopesand dreams, and want Manitoba to be We now have many dynamic sectors producing even more thanit istoday. I value and respecttheir goods and services that are competitive and advice, and I thank them for it. It is reflectedin the increasingly successful in world markets. measures taken in this budget, and we will be Manitoba companies like Boeing, Bristol strongly guided by it. Aerospace, Carnation, Ford New Holland/ Mr.Speaker, our economic future isbright. Versatile, Gemini Fashions, Kleysen Transport, Loewen Windows, McCain Foods, Motor Coach Manitobans have the entrepreneurial spirit, the Industries, Nygard International, Pollard Security - work ethic, the skills, the infrastructure, and the Printing, Reimer Express, Simplot and Western diversified economic base necessary for a thriving Glove are proof positiveof our competitiveness in economy with abundant jobs and investment world marlcets. opportunities. There are many reasons for these successes. Manitoba a good place to live, to workand to is Moreand more, aspotential investors consider our invest, and we want to keep it that way. province they are attracted to Manitoba sites as We must continue to develop the skills of our locations for new and expanded operations. people through training and education. We must Fiscally responsible policies in Manitoba have maintain and improveour infrastructure. We must created a positive economic climate. The obstacle takeadvantage of newtrading opportunities which of uncompetitive taxes has been removed, and arise from reductions in intetprovincial trade business investment decisions are now based on barriers, and internationally, under the Free Trade our Manitoba Advantage. I would draw Agreement, the North American Free Trade honourable members' attention to the special Agreement andthe General Agreement on Tariffs Manitoba Advantage budget paper enclosed with and Trade. Our businesses are seizing all kinds of thisadd ress. new opportunities, and that means new jobs for - Manitobans and betterprospects for consumers­ StrengtheningOur EconomicFoundations greater varietyand betterprices. Last year Premier Filmon released the The introduction of free trade with the United Frameworkfor Economic Growth which laid out a States in 1989 representedboth a challengeand an 1 0-point economic strategy emphasizing opportunity to our businesses. long-term commitment to fiscal management as What did they do in face of this challenge? They thefoundation of economic growth. rolled up their sleeves and set to work upgrading As the Premier wrote in the forward to the theirprocesses and theirproducts. As government, Framework for Economic Growth, "Economic we helped by making our taxes more competitive growth is not the sole objective, but rather the and by providing assistance where it was most means to several more important goals. needed, through measures such as the Manitoba Manitoba's ability to provide jobs, vital social research and development tax credit and the services and a high quality of life can only be Manitoba manufacturinginvestment tax credit. sustained through the creation of new wealth and Mr. Speaker, the resultsare impressive. industry." In the last five years, manufacturing investment Mr. Speaker, the 1994 Manitoba budget in Manitoba averaged 53 percenthigher than in the continuesto make jobs andeconomic development preceding five years. Private research and the top priority. April 20, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLYOF MANITOBA 445

Agriculture is a mainstay of the Manitoba committed to ensuring that the focus of the new economyand a major priorityfor our province. agreement will be on key economic and labour forcedevelopment prioritiesand on reinforcing,on Inaddition to working withthe fanncommunity a city-wide basis, Winnipeg's vital role in the to combat unfairtrade harassment, our government provincial economy. The Minister of Urban bas extended participation in the Gross Revenue Insurance Program beyond its March 31, 1996, Affairs (Mrs. Mcintosh) will be joining her expirydate. colleagues soon for an announcement on the start of public consultations on the design of a new As well, we are increasingour focus on agrifood agreement. processing and exportopportunities. For example, support for the Crop Diversification Centre in TheDepartment oflndustry,Trade and Tourism will continue its extensive work with many Carberryand the Canola Council of Canada based in Winnipeg will ensure that farmers and companiesboth in strategicsectors and traditional processors are helped to diversifycrop production industries to facilitate new investment, expansion and capturevalue-added p rocessing opportunities.· andjob creation.We have seen a dramatic increase in opportunities for Manitoba, and these Our government'scommitment to the promotion opportunities are being converted into thousands of economic development and expanded services of newjobs andhundreds of millions of dollars in in ruralMa nitoba is strengthened with additional newinvestment. allocations from lotteries for rural economic programs and the continuation of the successful Understanding that small business provides the Grow BondsProgram. My colleaguethe Mi nister vast majority of new jobs in the province, our of Rural Development {Mr. Derkach) will direct governmentbas worked bard to lever opportunities and provide economic stimulus. The Business lotteries funding to rural libraries to augment the funding provided by Culture, Heritage and Start programlaunched in 1990 is a case in point. Citizenship. This initiative bas helped over 300 entrepreneurs start new businesses and create 940 new jobs . • (1440) Approximately 40 percent of the new businesses Underthe direction of my colleague theMi nister areowned and operated by women, and27 percent of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship (Mr. are in rural areas. The Business Startprogram has Gilleshammer),the Community Places Programis been so successful that we are extending it for a - being expanded to allow $4.5 million in new further two years. With $1 million in loan projects that will improvefacilities and create jobs guarantees, it is expectedthat 110businesses will throughoutthe province. be startedand 300 more jobs will be created each In 1994-95 the total provincial public sector year. capital program willtop $1 billion as investments My colleague the Minister of Industry, Trade by Manitoba Hydro, Manitoba Telephone and and Tourism (Mr. Downey) will pursue an other provincial corporations and agencies will innovative, five-year pilot program to provide add $682 million to the $329 million provincial expansion capital for existingsmall businesses in capital budget. The investment will create the service and manufacturing sectors. The small important jobs during the planning and business expansion fund would involve a construction phases, improve the overall partnership of financial institutions, entrepreneurs efficiency of our economy, and lead to more and the provincial government. long-termjobs for Manitobans. Long before the currentfederal governmentwas Later this year the province, the federal elected, Manitoba was lobbying for a national government and the City of Winnipeg plan to sign infrastructure program thatwould create jobs and a new five-year, $75 million Winnipeg sparkeconomic development. This iswhy we were development agreement. All three partners are among the first provinces to enter into an 446 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLYOF MANITOBA Apri.l20, 1994

Infrastructure Works Agreement after the new provinces have reduced their personal income tax federal government announcedits commitment. rates since1987. The agreement provides for $2 05 million in Manitoba's marginalrate of personalincome tax investment in a regionally diversified set of is now the third lowest after having been the projectsthroughout theprovince over the next two highest in Canada in 1987. This is a dramatic years. In co-operation with the federal and turnaround. municipal governments, we are also striking a Manitoba's retail sales tax rate is the lowest of balance between longer-term strategic initiatives anyprovince which levies sales tax. and traditional infrastructure thrusts, maximizing The payroll tax burden has been reduced long-term benefits for our province. through increases in the exemption level and a I am particularly pleased to note that Manitoba training tax credit introduced in 1991. Fully 90 - was the first province to have a large block of percent of allManitoba businesses arenow exempt projects approved. Work will start in the near from thepayroll tax. future. Manitoba families are major beneficiaries of Initial project approvals will generate more than these policies. Earlier this month, Statistics 2,300 jobs during construction, and the legacy of Canada reported that family income after taxes in strongereconomic infrastructurefor the future. Manitoba recorded the strongestgrowth in Canada Manitoba is financing our $68 million for 1992. At 7.8 percent, Manitoba's growth was participation through a special allocation from four times the national increase. lotteries funds. This ensures that Manitoba's As well, the Conference Board of Canada commitment is newmoney and will not raise the expects personal disposable income in 1994 to province's deficit or reduce resources committed increase by $435 for every man,woman andchild to programs. in Manitoba.

The substantial $33 million rural gasification I am confident that our improved tax project under the infrastructure initiative willhelp competitiveness, in combination with falling trade communities outside Winnipeg gain access to barriers and the fundamental strengths of the Manitoba economy, will underpin a significant economical natural gas. This will reduce home - heating costs and, perhaps more importantly, expansion of our economy and create more jobs provide a new magnet to attract industry and new for Manitobans over the next decade. economic opportunities. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce that the longest-running tax freeze in Canada will Fairand CompetitiveTaxes continue. Again this year, therewill be no increase Mr. Speaker, we have worked hardsince 1988 to in major Manitoba tax rates. There will be: tuma hostile taxregime into one of the fairest and No increase in personal or corporation income most competitivein the country. taxes; None of our major tax rates, the personal income No increasein the sales tax; and tax, the corporationincome tax, nor the retailsales No increase in payroll or capital tax rates. tax,has been increased since this government took We will continue to take whatever actions are office. No other Canadianprovince can boast of a required to ensure Manitoba's taxes remain freeze on major taxrates over the last six years. competitive. Manitoba's basic rate of personal income tax TargetedIncentives was actually reducedstarting in 1989, and targeted reductions for families with children were Mr. Speaker, in addition to continuing a tax introduced at the same time. Only two other freeze that is the envy of every government in April 20, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 447

Canada, this budget also provides a series of Transportation targeted tax cuts and various incentives. These Transportation plays a vitalrole in our economy, measures are aimed at helping people and both in bringing Manitoba products to expanding encouraging business to create morejobs. ma.Ikets throughout North Americaand elsewhere, and in bringing competitively priced products to Housing our marlcets. Over the past six years our government bas We will, therefore, bring the railway diesel fuel placed a high priority on supporting the needs and tax rate more in line with other provinces with a aspirations of Manitoba families. We are phased reduction of3.156 per litre. committed to continuing this priority emphasis throughout 1994, the International Year of the As well, Manitoba truckers will retain the Family. We support utilization of registered benefits of the second-lowest diesel fuel tax rate retirement savings plan funds, sheltered from among the provinces.

provincial and federal income taxes, to assist These measures, along with the transportation first-time bomebuyers. component of the Infrastructure Works Mr. Speaker, to further assist families and to Agreement, will strengthen our position as an create morejobs in the construction industry, I am international bub for road, rail and air announcing a sales tax rebate program for all new transportation. homes purchased by first-time buyers between Manufacturing budget day and March 31, 1995. To focus the

benefits of this relief, the maximum rebate will be Manufacturing companies have worked bard to $2,500, which is sufficient to cover the full sales modernize and become more innovative and tax on a typical $100,000home. We are confident competitive, assisted by such measures as the willhelp build further on the recent strength in this Manitobaresearch and development taxcredit and the housing sector. the Manitoba manufacturing tax credit which is In addition, a special one-year $10 million scheduled to expire June 30, 1994. program will assist Manitobans to renovate and Mr.Speaker, to encourage continued growth and - upgrade their homes. Grant assistance of $1,000 expansion of this vital sector, the following will be available for projects focused on structural measures willbe undertaken: improvements to older homes currently valued up to $100,000. The program is intended to help Themanuf acturing investment tax credit will be Manitoba fa milies renovate their homes, give the extended to June 30, 1995;

renovation industry a timely boost and enhance The sales tax exemption for direct agents used in employment prospects for Manitobans. manufacturing will be broadened to assist

As a further measure of assistance to smaller manufacturers; and lower-income homeowners, Manitoba home Sales tax on electricity used in mining and renovation program grants will be extended to manufacturing will be phased out to further Residential Rehabilitation Assistance Program enhance the great Manitoba Advantage of fully projects wherethe netcosts to homeowners exceed renewable and environmentally friendly $5,000. hydroelectric power. Our aim isto use that great resource even more aggressively to create • (1450) additional investment and jobs for Manitobans, An estimated 600 jobs will be created and especially in mining and processing in the maintained as aresult of these initiatives. North, andin manufacturing. 448 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 20, 1994

SmallBusiness and the potential of a number of promising sites is Mr.Speaker, earlier I referred to the high encouraging. One of the largest and most priority given to small business in Manitoba. It is significant is in the Williams Lake area where the true backbone of our economy and consistently successful exploration activity identified a new ranksas one of our most effective creators of jobs. world-class nickel deposit for the province. In previous budgets, we acted to eliminate the To encourage translation of these and other payroll tax on jobs for small business. Today, to prospects into quality jobs for northern Manitoba, I further assist small business expansion and job am announcing a new mining investment tax creation, we willtake the following action: credit. The credit will allow up to 7 percent of investment in a new mine or major expansion of an The small business capital taxexemption will be existing mine as a deduction from mining taxes. It doubled to $2 million. As a result, some 600 is effective from midnight tonight until December - additional small businesses will no longer pay 31, 2003. this tax. As well, to encourage additional mineral As well, the small business coipOration income processing and to further spur job creation, the tax rate will be cut from 10 percent to 9.5 processing allowance under the mining tax will be percent for 1994, andto 9 percentin 1995. doubled to 20 percent for new facilities or major ReducingRed Tape expansions. Business regulation is another crucial issue, We are clearly taking aggressive and effective especially for small businesses. Throughout the action to build on one of our greatest strengths, our prebudget consultations, we were told to address natural resources. the problems and inefficiencies created by unnecessary regulations. TobaccoTaxes

We are responding to this concern with the The federal decision to lower tobacco taxes in a creation of the Advisory Panel on Business discriminatory manner, and the parallel cuts by Regulations. Along with Manitoba businesses, we eastern provinces have created the potential for are waiting with interest for the panel 's report in east-west movement of contraband tobacco and June. We are committed to making regulations additional problems for western provi nces. - "smarter," to help ensure Manitoba continues to I fully share the concerns of many Manitobans have one of the best economic climates in North who urged our government not to cut tobacco America. taxes. Lower tobacco taxes would send the wrong Mining message to our young people and place an added financial strain on ourhealth care system . Our vast and rich mineral deposits have always been among Manitoba's great assets. In the past, We, therefore , remain firmly committed to mining activity has been inhibited by an onerous maintaining our current level of tobacco taxes by tax structure. Inprevious budgets we took steps to using improved enforcement to deal with the new foster exploration in the province, including the pressures. We have asked for fu ll federal successful Manitoba Mineral Exploration co-operation in dealing with what is clearly a Incentive Program. We have created a more fe derally cre ated problem. hospitable regulatory and taxation environment. I am very pleased with the active co-operation My colleague the Minister of Energy and Mines and financial support received from allthe western (Mr. Orchard) informs me that these initiatives are provinces on this issue. We believe a strong and succeeding. united approach to this difficult problem through Mining claims and oil exploration have such initiatives as increased information sharing increased dramatically. New mines are opening, among provinces, stiffer fines and penalties, April 20, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 449

marked tobacco product requirements and other was better use of post-secondary resources and related enforcement provisions will greatly reduce skills-building programs for Manitobans.

opportunitiesfor smuggling cigarettes into western Consistent with the report, all skills-training Canada. initiatives have been consolidated, apprenticeship Priority Human Services training is being revitalized, and the successful Workforce 2000 program isbeing continu ed. Mr. Speaker, a well-rounded and solidly based Youth initiatives such as CareerStart, Partners education, a high-quality and accessible health with Youth, and the REDI youth programs are care system, anda reliable social safety net arekey being sustained. components in the kind of life Manitobans want for themselves andtheir children. We have approached the fe deral government regarding their possible participation in a taxcredit Our government will continue to reflect these savings plan to encourage Manitobans to secure values through program enhancements in key skillstraining essential in a changing economy. human service areas. The community colleges budget will increase Health, Education and Training, and Family 3.3 percent to build on their success in enhanced Services account for 72 cents of every dollar of technical andvoca tional training. program spending this year. In fact, of the entire $1.1 billion increase in program spending since Universities will be asked to focus their 1987, over $1 billion, or 92 percent, has been activities more effectively. University operating devoted to these priorities. funding will be reduced by 2.7 percent this year, while capital funding will be increased by Educationand Training two-thirds, from $6 million to $10 million. Once again, tuition fe e increases will be limited to 5 Mr. Speaker, we will continue to refocus percent. education andtraining to meet our most important objective-equipping our citizens with the skills Welfare To Work necessary to compete successfully in today 's Mr.Speaker, this budget also places new world. emphasis on measures geared to improving To ensure all Manitobans have comparable self-reliance rather than fostering dependency. access to education, we will expand distance Priority is being maintained on providing social education opportunities. Several more school assistance where it istruly needed. divisions will offer distanceeducation servicesthis • (1500) fall, and by the 1995 school year a province-wide Welfare to work and skills upgrading thrusts in system involving interactive television, video this budget will meet the needs of individuals and conferencing and library access is expected to be families for adequate incomes while providing in place. them with real hope and opportunity for their Consultations with all partners in education will future. emphasize ways to ensure that students meet The departments of Family Services and higher measurable standards. My colleague the Education and Training are earmarking $3 million Minister of Education and Training (Mr. Manness) for specific pilot projects. Given the federal will hold a Parents Forum on Education at the end government 's position on pilot project funding,we of this month, providing parents a unique look forward to their participation. In addition, we opportunity for direct input in setting education will participate with the City of Winnipeg and the priorities and establishing new directions. federal government in a $10 million One of the major themes of the University welfare-to-work initiative under the Infrastructure Education Review Commission earlier this year Works Agreement. 450 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLYOF MANITOBA Apri120, 1994

Health and Wellness co-operatively managing overall doctors' fees Mr.Speaker, this budget invests $1.85 billion in and improving access to services in rural areas. health initiatives for Manitobans. There is a Our continuing objective is to modernize consistent emphasis on redirection of resources to government so that it provides the services community-based care and illness prevention. Manitobans want and need on a basis that is While my colleague theMinister of Health (Mr. sustainable and affordable to taxpayers. McCrae) will be providing full details during the Estimates review, I would like to highlight a few Meetingthe FiscalChallenge items: Since our election to office in 1988 , our Home care receives an additional $2 .6 million government has worked to bring the cost of and includes service improvements through government, that is taxes, within reasonable levels expansion of self-managed home care in rural for Manitobans. and northernManitoba, and establishment of an appeal panel and an advisorycommittee. We have brought new thinking to government decision making, putting the concerns of Support services for seniors will be enhanced Manitobansfront and centre . We have emphasized through a special $500,000 allocation from the internal reform, affordability and realistic Healthy Communities Development budget. expectations in public sector compensation. The Regulated midwifery will be introduced asan results are becoming very evident. important component in a comprehensive obstetricalservices plan. This year, Dominion Bond Rating Service cited Manitoba as being "the most fiscally responsible Breast cancer and cervical cancer screening province in Canada 1987 to present." Much of the programswill be enhanced. creditshould go to my predecessor,the honourable Funding for dialysis treatmentwill be increased member for Morris (Mr. Manness). On behalf of by $2 .4 million, bringing the service closer to my colleagues and all Manitobans, I would like to patients. formally and publicly thank him for his excellent Increased funding of $1.3 million will be leadership, foresight anddedication.

available for bone marrow transplants. - When our government took office in 1988 , Establishment of Manitoba's first lung Manitoba was facing a serious challenge-the transplant pilot program means Manitobans no burden created by a long period of high deficits, longer need to leave the province for this vital high taxes, unchecked government spending and service. almost $4 billion of new debt piled up from fiscal Pharmacare receives an additional $5.6 million, 1982 through fiscal 1988. and the new Drug Program Information Manitobansknow there are going to be deficits Network (DPIN) system willhelp avoid adverse during and just after recessions due to sharp drug reactions and overprescribing. The new revenue declines. But they are critical of past DPIN will also process Phamacare benefits governments which, despite periods of strong automatically for Manitobans at same time the economic growth in the last20 years, ran deficits as prescriptions are filled. anyway. Community-based mental health services By far, the bulk of our current debt problem is receive an additional $4.3 million. attributable to the series of huge deficits Adult daycare spaces will be increased accumulated between 1982 and 1988 . In that throughout Manitoba. period, Manitoba's general purpose government Thenew five-year agreement with the Manitoba debt increased by an average of 24 percent per Medical Association provides a framework for year. April 20, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 451

'lbiokof it. Imagineyour own debts rising by 24 Entrepreneurship inGovernment percent each year. Manitobans are still paying for Mr. Speaker, important actions have been taken those excesses through higher debt and higher to reduce the cost of government. An increased interest payments. In 1981, Manitoba's interest emphasis on innovation and entrepreneurship is costs were about equal to the combined spending playing a key role. of just two medium-sized departments: Natural Resources andNorthern Affairs. year, Last interest Our government has instituted a service and management improvement initiative, building on costs exceeded the combined spending of the the capabilities and dedication of our public departments of Natural Resources, Northern service. This initiative, employing the ideas of Affairs, Agriculture, Highways and civil servants themselves, will enhance service and Transportation, Industry, Trade and Tourism, reduce the costs. of government. Energy and Mines, Environment, Labour, and Consumer andCorporate Affairs. Our government has had success in bringing greaterpride and perfonnance to specific services The problem is obvious. We are spending large through the introduction of special operating sums of money each year on interest costs, $500 agencies. The Fleet Vehicles agency and the for everyman, woman and childin Manitoba, and Materials Distribution agency in the Department this money provides no current program benefits of Government Services were the first two such or services to Manitobans. Without the inherited agencies created at the provincial level in Canada. debt, every tax dollar would provide current As a result,transportation needs arebeing met with services to Manitobans, andwe would have botha 500 fewer vehicles than in 1987 and annual balanced budget andlower taxes. savings of closeto $3 million. The Dominion Bond Rating Service put it Based on our experience to date, we are succinctly, stating: "High cumulative deficits in establishing another two new agencies this year: the 1981 to 1988 period are the main reason the organization and staff development branch of interest costs are so high today." the Civil Service Commission and the Vital In our homes, each of us knows that one Statistics branch of Consumer and Corporate disadvantage of borrowing is that we must repay Affairs. Both agencies are expected to operate both the original debt andthe interest payments on utilizing their own revenue sources without the borrowed money. government subsidy. Manitoba has become recognized as an innovator in this area, and other For government, there is a furtherdisadvantage. provinces are following our success with interest. People, especially those people who make • (1510) investment decisions, know that if government is borrowing heavily today, it is going to have to Overlap and duplication among government raise taxes sooner or later to pay the accumulated departments is being reduced. Every department debt and associated interest. And when taxes are used to have its own personneland payroll branch. too high, people think about living and investing This year, sharing of personnel functions is being elsewhere. implemented with savings expected to exceed $1 million That is why putting the province's fiscal house in order is the foundation of Manitoba's economic Administration and finance fu nctions in the progress. By controlling government spending and Housing andUrban Affairs departments have been keeping taxes down, we have been able to create consolidated. the kind of positive climate that attracts Internal audit resources have been merged to investment, encourages expansion and creates better serve all of government. As part of its jobs. mandate, "value for money" audits will be 452 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 20, 1994

perfonned to help measure the effectiveness of making requires that the full costs of government governmentprogmm s. activity be recognized in each department's own

1be environmental chemistry services currently budget. This year, for the first time, employee provided by WardLaboratory in the Department of benefit costs willbe allocated to each department 's Environment and Cadham Laboratory in the budget Department of Health are being consolidated as Our managers found they could save $2.2 the Environmental Sciences Centre in the million over the last two years by reducing the Economic Innovation andTechnology Council. amount of rented space they were using. Management has been delayered, unnecessary Manitoba Hydro and Manitoba Telephone functions reduced and eliminated. In budget, this System will beginpaying capital tax. 1be change further streamlining will reduce the staff will put these utilities on a level playing field with - complement by 393 positions. their competitors, which have always been liable We have worlced hard to provide job openings for this tax, andmove Manitoba's practice more in for displaced employees through incentives for linewith other provinces which levy a capital tax. voluntary separations and aggressive Particular problem areas have been turned redeployment efforts. Asa result,we have held the around. The Workers Compensation Board is a number of individuals receiving layoff notices to good example. Despite average assessment 41, and we are confident the number of people increases of 20 percent annually from 1983 to actually displaced at the end of April will be 1988, the board accumulated unfunded liabilities further reduced. of $232 million. Since then, the liabilities have The introduction of the reduced workweek been reduced to $76 million, while the aventge progmm saved nearly $20 million in 1993-94 and assessment rates have been held constant, and approximately 500 jobs. 1be spirit of dedication service hasbeen improved significantly. exhibited by our employees has been a tribute to Manitoba willhost the 1994 Western Premiers ' their commitment to public service. The progmm Conference in mid-May in Gimli. One of the most is being extended for 1994-95 with similarpositive important priorities for that conference will be the results anticipated. extension of co-operative initiatives by the western 1993-94 - Government's overtime bill for has and territorial governments. For example, we are been reduced by nearly $3 million or 35 percent looking at opportunities with Saskatchewan to from the year previous. co-operatively manage fo rest fire suppression and We have divested ourselves of operations which related operations. need not be part of government. These include Manfor, ManOil, Manitoba Data Services, soil TheNeed For A Stronger Canadian testing and fe ed analysis labs, veterinary drug and Partnership semen centres, anagricultural extension centre and the highways sign shop. The Queen's Printer Mr. Speaker, we welcome the new fe deral in-house printing operations were closed when it government's commitment to co-operation with became clear that private printers could meet the provinces and to predictability andadequacy in arran government 's need at a lower cost. federal transfer gements .

Full-cost recovery has been implemented for Clearly, there is much work to do. Federal services and costs such as occupancy , postal decisions since 1982 now cost Manitobain excess services and internal legal services which are of $300 million annually in transfers and a further provided by one government department to $200 million in provincial program costs through another. This provides an incentive fo r more offloading of other fe deral program careful use of such services. Rational decision responsibilities. Apri1 20, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 453

Federal transfers designated for the critical areas ways to improve Canada's tax structure. of health andhigher educationhave fallenfrom 52 Manitoba's objectives in the discussions will percent to 35 percent of program costs. Had the include fairnessconsumers for andbusinesses . provincial government restricted itscommiunent Western Premiers and Fmance ministers have to health and higher education in line with these suggested that the idea of an independent tax federal transfers, hospitals, health care, revenue agency for all federal andprovincial taxes universities andcolleges today would face a $700 warrants careful attention. Such an agency could million, or 30 percent, reduction in their budgets. It make revenuecollection more eff ective andreduce is through provincial cushioning of the federal duplication of administrative and compliance offloading that com mitments have been requirements. maintained at higher levels. I would also reaffirmManitoba 's support for the While we are pleased that equalization development of aboriginal self-government to the arrangements have been renewed for a further five extent possible within the current Canadian years, we have specific concerns in some Constitution. Too often in the past, along with the importantareas. aboriginal community, we have witnessed the Despite our strenuous objections, the federal abrogationof manyfederal responsibilities both on government has reduced the ceiling on andoff Indian reservesin Manitoba. For aboriginal equalization to a record low share of Canada's government to succeed, Ottawa must live up to its gross national product. The old ceiling has already responsibilities to aboriginal peoples while cost Manitoba $300 million, and the potential co-operatively developing viable options for the impacts of the new ceiling remain a serious future. This must be the paramountobjective of the concern. recently announced federal initiative.

We areenthusiastic participantsin the work now I have outlined a number of areas which hold proceeding on eliminating unnecessary overlap promise for majorbenefits but in which Manitoba and duplication between federal and provincial also has major concerns. Ifthese concerns can be governments. Successes in this area can ensure addressedin a meaningful way, federal-provincial better public services at lower cost to taxpayers. relations can begin a new era of co-operation and The objective must be to lower our combined debt greater hamlony.

- and deficits, not merely to shift the problem from Lotteries onejurisdiction to another.

The federal government has responded to Mr. Speaker, this year we will be dedicating provincial calls for joint efforts to refocus $124 million of lotteries revenue to support Canada's social security system. Governments program expenditure. This includes $24 million must work together to rationalize the myriad of for first-year costs of the province 's one-third existing programs and meet the needs of contribution under the Infrastructure Works Canadians more effectively and at lower cost. Agreement. Also included is the financialsupport However, we remain concerned that provinces provided to rural communities and the City of may be left unfairly at risk if the program savings Winnipeg from the operation of video lottery are not realized and Ottawa proceeds with more terminals (VLTs). Ten percent of VLT revenue unilateral reductions in transfers. will be granted unconditionally to both rural communities and Winnipeg. A further 25 percent A parliamentary committee on the GST is of VLT revenue will be used for economic currently receiving submissions from Canadians development initiatives in Winnipeg and rural on ideas to deal with the sales tax. Manitoba is Manitoba. looking forward to the committee's report and to the commencement of ministerial discussions on • (1520) 454 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OFMANITOBA April 20, 1994

For rural Manitoba, this means that $4 million spending. I ampleased that this has been achieved will be paid in unconditional grants to rural without jeopardizingpriority social programs. communities, and$10 million willbe used to fund By bringing government spending under the already established rural economic control, we have positioned ourselves to achieve a development programs. fully balanced budget quickly, as the economic As well, $4million of VLT revenue willbe paid recovery strengthem, and revenue growth returns unconditionally to the City of Winnipeg. A further to morenormal levels . $10 million will be allocated for economic In 1994-95 we will secure an $18 million development initiatives in Winnipeg. Some of the operating surplus. This is the measure many projects that have already been identified include governments use to describe a balanced budget. provincial contributions toward a portion of the The operating sutplus means that Manitoba has operating costs of the Winnipeg Convention - sufficient revenue to pay for its current program Centre, Winnipeg 2000 and Tourism Wmni peg. expenditure and its public debt costs. Only capital Theprovince will consider other initiatives as the expenditure, permanent infrastructure such as yearprogresses. highways and other lasting assets, are being Mr. Speaker, we will direct $90 million of financed from the budgetary deficit this year. The lotteries revenue toward deficit reduction to budgetary deficit, including capital expenditure, protectpriority socialprogra ms. This ispart of our will be $296 million. fiscal plan and contributes to the stability of A further measure of our progress toward fundingfor health, education andfam ilyservi ces. eliminating the deficit is the $165 million or 35.8 percent decline in the budgetary deficit for FiscalSummary 1994-95. This comes on top of the $105 million decline in 1993-94 compared to 1992-93. Mr. Speaker, our government has worked hard to ensure that priority public programs remain Over the past six years the deficit has averaged affordable and accessible to Manitobans andtheir $320 million annually, or about 1.3 percent of families. That is why with this budget we have provincial gross domestic product. This held taxes steady for seven years while woddng percentage is the lowest in Canada. By this continuously to make government serve the people measure, Manitoba has the best record of fiscal - at lower cost. management among the provinces.

For 1993-94 the forecastdeficit is $461 million, Balanced Budget $94 million higher than originally budgeted The Mr. Speaker, eliminatingthe deficitis one of the main factors in the projected deficitincrease were most significant tasks our government has ever unexpected reductionsin federal transferpayments undertaken. I am pleased that we are on track to a resulting from weaker economic performance balanced budget. Evidence of that progress is especially in central Canada, and higher debt contained in this budget's achievement of an service costs as a result of a weaker Canadian operating sutplus for the currentfiscal year. dollar. An additional $50 million draw from lotteries will help cushion the impact of these two The government has charted its way forward unforeseen events. Program spending in 1993-94 from 1994-95 based on modest annual re venue was kept on track despite unanticipated pressures growth of about 3 percent. related to summer flooding and social assistance The deficit will be eliminated and a balanced caseloads . budget will be achieved on target in 1996-97 In 1994-95 we will follow the fi scal plan without anytax increases or any furtherreductions presented last year which called for a further in overall program spending. reduction of 1 percent in overall program The rewards of this fiscal strategyare before us: Apri1 20, 1994 LEGISLATIVEASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 455

lower taxes; And we have achieved a balanced operating more income left in the pockets of Manitoba budget andare ontrack to a fully balanced budget families; two years from now. morejobs and a strongereconomy; These are important assets for any province to possess. However, the most significant benefit to affordable and accessible public programs; and be won is the sense of stability and renewed a balancedbudget. confidence Manitobans arenow experiencing. In 1997-98, a projected surplus of$150 million Manitobans are,ind eed,the greateststrength our will be available. This means much greater province has. The future will be defined by their flexibility. Manitobanswill have the leeway to hopes and dreams. It will be built on their talent choose to pay down the debt or reduce taxes. anddetermination. While we continue to follow our fiscal planinto Mr. Speaker, for that reason more than any the future, I believe it is also important that all other, I approach the fu ture with confidence, Manitobans realize how much they have enthusiasm andgreat anticipation. accomplished to date. Together, we will build a stronger Manitoba. Conclusion Thankyou, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, seven years ago we began thetask Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I of modernizing government to putthe concerns of move, seconded by the memberfor Brandon East our citizens fust. Fortunately, Manitobans were on (Mr. Leonard Evans), that debate be adj ourned. the leading edge in Canada in realizing that new Motion agreed to. approaches emphasizing controlled spending and Mr. Stefanson: Mr.Speaker, I move, secondedby lower taxeswere necessary to allow our province the Minister of Justice (Mrs. Vodrey), that this to grow andto prosper. House at its next sitting will resolve itself into a Today Manitobans are reaping the benefits of committee to consider of the Supply to be granted having started on the path to fiscal responsibility to Her Majesty. before any other senior governmentin Canada. Motion agreedto. Our competitive taxes and positive business Mr.Stefans on: I move, seconded by the Minister climate are creating thousands of jobs by allowing of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Downey), home-grown businesses to flourish and by that this House at itsnext sitting will resolve itself attracting exciting new investments from other into a committee to consider of Ways and Means Canadianand international firms. for raising of the Supply to be granted to Her Decisions to invest and grow in Manitoba can Majesty. now be inade solely on the basis of our many Motion agreedto. advantages: qualified andindustrious people; Messages Hon. Eric Stefanson (Ministerof Fm ance): Mr. centrallocation and time zone; Speaker, I have two messages from HisHonour the high-quality transportation and communication Lieutenant-Governor. netwoiks; and Mr. Speaker: The Lieutenant-Governor bountiful resources including abundant low-cost transmits, to the Legislative Assembly of energy. Manitoba, Estimates of sums required for the We are employing openprocesses which rely on services of the province for capital expenditures direct public input to modernize and improve our andrecommends these Estimates to the Legislative key social programs. Assembly. 456 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Apri1 20, 1994

The Lieutenant-Governor transmits, to the George Johnson, the former Lieutenant-Governor Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, Estimates of for the province and the former MLA for Gimli, sumsrequired for the SeiVices of the province for andalso in the loge to myright, where we have Mr. the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 1995, Harry Graham, the formerMLA for Virden and a andrecommends these Estimatesto theLegisla tive former Speaker of this Legislative Assembly, and Assembly. Mr. J. Frank Johnston, the former MLA for Mr. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, I move, secondedby Sturgeon Creek. the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr. Orchard), On behalf of all honourable members, I would that the messages together with the Estimates like to welcome you gentlemen here this accompanying the same be referred to the afternoon. Committee of Supply. Is it the will of the House to call it six o'clock? Motion agreed to. Six o'clock? The hour being 6 p.m., this House is • (1530) now adjourned and stands adjourned till 1:30 p.m . Introductionof Guests tomorrow(Thu rsday). Mr. Speaker: Prior to askingthe House if it is the Erratum willto call it sixo'c lock, I would like to draw the attention of honourable members to the Speaker's On Friday, April l5, 1994, page 283, comments Gallery and also to the loge to my right, wherewe inadvertently attributed to Mr. Manness should be have with us this afternoon the Honourable Dr. attributed to Mr.McCrae . LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Wednesday, April 20, 1994

CONTENTS

ROUTINEPROCEEDINGS Concordia Hospital Schellenberg; McCrae 441 OralQuestions Infrastmcture Works Agreement Health Sciences Centre Plobman; Derlcach; Ft lmon; Storie 442 Chomiak; McCrae 433

ManitobaTelephone System-Brandon BUDGET ADDRESS L. Evans; Findlay 434

KaliShiva Society Strengthening our Economic Foundations 444 ,_, McCormick; McCrae 434 Fair andCompetitive Taxes 446 Targeted Incentives 446 RoyalBank ofCanada Housing 447 Hickes; Duchanne 435 Transportation 447 NorthernAirports Manufacturing 447 Filmon 436 SmallBusiness 448 Reducing Red Tape 448 Social Program Reductions Mining 448 Santos;Ducharme 437 Tobacco Taxes 448 Council onAging Priority Human Services 449 Santos; Ducharme 437 Education andTraining 449 Welfare to Wolk 449 CN Rail Health and Wellness 450 Ashton; Findlay 438 Meeting the Fiscal Challenge 450 ThompsonAirport Entrepreneurshipin Government 451 Ashton; Findlay 438 Needfor a StrongerCanadian Partnership 452 Lotteries 453 Greenway School Fiscal Summary 454 Edwards; Manness 439 Balanced Budget 454 Department of Highways-Selkirk Conclusion 455 Dewar;Fm dlay 440 Erratum Transcona-SpringfieldSchool Division Cerilli; Manness 440 April l5, 1994, page 283 456