Legislative Assembly 12401 13 June 1995

TUESDAY, 13 JUNE 1995 Ambulance Service Act— Ambulance Service Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, No. 159 Auctioneers and Agents Act— Mr SPEAKER (Hon. J. Fouras, Ashgrove) Consumer Affairs (Fees and Charges) read prayers and took the chair at 10 a.m. Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, No. 160 PETITIONS Bills of Sale and Other Instruments Act— The Clerk announced the receipt of the Consumer Affairs (Fees and Charges) following petitions— Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, No. 160 Building Act— Hazardous Waste Treatment Plant, Fire Service Legislation Amendment Pinkenba Regulation (No. 1) 1995, No. 173 From Mr Santoro (18 signatories) Business Names Act— praying that the Parliament of Queensland will Consumer Affairs (Fees and Charges) (a) by motion, indicate its concern over the Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, siting of a hazardous waste treatment plant at No. 160 Pinkenba; and (b) immediately negotiate with Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road Act— the Brisbane City Council to ensure that any environmental impact statement is bounded Department of Transport (Variation of by the Government's own Moreton Bay Fees) Regulation 1995, No. 168 Strategic Plan. Collections Act— A similar petition was received from Mr Consumer Affairs (Fees and Charges) Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, Vaughan (746 signatories). No. 160 Corrective Services Act— Albany Creek, Government Land Corrective Services (Establishment of From Mr Welford (2,978 signatories) Prisons) Amendment Regulation (No. 1) praying that the Parliament of Queensland will 1995, No. 166 urge the Minister for the Department of Financial Administration and Audit Act— Housing, Local Government and Planning to Public Finance Amendment Standard withdraw the application to develop the (No. 1) 1995, No. 165 department's land situated at Keong Road, Fire Service Act— Albany Creek. Fire Service Legislation Amendment Petitions received. Regulation (No. 1) 1995, No. 173 Funeral Benefit Business Act— PAPERS Consumer Affairs (Fees and Charges) Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, The following papers were laid on the No. 160 table— Government Owned Corporations Act— Treasurer (Mr De Lacy)— Government Owned Corporations (Ports) Annual Reports for 1993-94— Regulation 1995, No. 161 Registrar of Commercial Acts Government Owned Corporations (QGC Registrar of Co-operative and Other Corporatisation) Amendment Regulation Societies (No. 2) 1995, No. 174 Registrar of Co-operative Housing Government Owned Corporations (QTSC Societies. Corporatisation) Amendment Regulation (No. 2) 1995, No. 175 Government Owned Corporations STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS (Queensland Rail) Regulation 1995, In accordance with the schedule No. 162 circulated by the Clerk to members in the Government Owned Corporations Chamber, the following documents were Regulation 1995, No. 163 tabled— Hawkers Act— Aboriginal Land Act— Consumer Affairs (Fees and Charges) Aboriginal Land Amendment Regulation Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, (No. 1) 1995, No. 167 No. 160 13 June 1995 12402 Legislative Assembly

Invasion of Privacy Act— Petroleum Act— Consumer Affairs (Fees and Charges) Petroleum (Entry Permission) Notice 1995, Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, No. 182 No. 160 Pollution of Waters by Oil Act— Jupiters Casino Agreement Act— Department of Transport (Variation of Jupiters Casino Agreement Variation Fees) Regulation 1995, No. 168 Regulation 1995, No. 181 Retirement Villages Act— Justices Act— Consumer Affairs (Fees and Charges) Motor Accident Insurance Legislation Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, Amendment Regulation (No. 2) 1995, No. 160 No. 178 Second-hand Dealers and Collectors Act— Land Act— Consumer Affairs (Fees and Chargers) Land Regulation 1995, No. 186 Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, No. 160 Proclamation—the provisions of the Act Security Providers Act— that are not in force commence 1 July 1995, No. 185 Consumer Affairs (Fees and Charges) Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, Land Sales Act— No. 160 Consumer Affairs (Fees and Charges) South Bank Corporation Act— Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, No. 160 South Bank Corporation Amendment By- Law (No. 1) 1995, No. 183 Land Tax Act— State Transport Act— Revenue Laws Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, No. 184 Department of Transport (Variation of Fees) Regulation 1995, No. 168 Liquor Act— Statutory Bodies Financial Arrangements Act— Liquor Amendment Regulation (No. 1) Statutory Bodies Financial Arrangements 1995, No. 164 (Investment) Amendment Regulation Motor Accident Insurance Act— (No. 1) 1995, No. 180 Motor Accident Insurance Legislation Statutory Bodies Financial Arrangements Amendment Regulation (No. 2) 1995, (QUT) Regulation 1995, No. 179 No. 178 Superannuation (Government and Other Motor Vehicle Driving Instruction School Act— Employees) Act— Department of Transport (Variation of Superannuation (Government and Other Fees) Regulation 1995, No. 168 Employees) Amendment of Articles Motor Vehicles Control Act— Regulation (No. 2) 1995, No. 177 Department of Transport (Variation of Superannuation (Government and Other Fees) Regulation 1995, No. 168 Employees ) Amendment Regulation (No. 2) 1995, No. 176 Motor Vehicles Safety Act— Tow Truck Act— Department of Transport (Variation of Department of Transport (Variation of Fees) Regulation 1995, No. 168 Fees) Regulation 1995, No. 168 Nature Conservation Act— Trade Measurement Administration Act— Nature Conservation (Protected Areas) Consumer Affairs (Fees and Charges) Amendment Regulation (No. 6) 1995, Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, No. 172 No. 160 Nature Conservation (Protected Areas) Traffic Act— Amendment Regulation (No. 7) 1995, No. 187 Department of Transport (Variation of Fees) Regulation 1995, No. 168 Partnership (Limited Liability) Act— Transport Infrastructure Act— Consumer Affairs (Fees and Charges) Transport Infrastructure (Ports) Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, No. 160 No. 169 Pawnbrokers Act— Transport Operations (Marine Safety) Act— Consumer Affairs (Fees and Charges) Department of Transport (Variation of Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, Fees) Regulation 1995, No. 168 No. 160 Transport Operations (Passenger Transport) Pay-roll Tax Act— Act— Revenue Laws Amendment Regulation Department of Transport (Variation of (No. 1) 1995, No. 184 Fees) Regulation 1995, No. 168 Legislative Assembly 12403 13 June 1995

Travel Agents Act— MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Consumer Affairs (Fees and Charges) Titles Office Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1995, No. 160 Hon. G. N. SMITH (Townsville— Minister for Lands) (10.06 a.m.), by leave: I Workers' Compensation Act— wish to make a statement about a recent Workers' Compensation Amendment fraud committed against the Titles Office. I Regulation (No. 1) 1995, No. 171 inform the House today that at no stage could Workers' Compensation Amendment Act— the house in question have been sold after the owner alerted the Titles Office to possible Proclamation—the day on which section fraud. The Titles Office immediately advised 17 of the Act commences 9 June 1995, the owner to lodge a caveat on the property, No. 170. and this restricted any further dealing with the property. When the Fraud Squad confirmed MINISTERIAL STATEMENT there was possible fraud, the Registrar of Titles then recommended to the owner that she Retirement of Member for Mackay request the registrar to lodge a registrar's Hon. E. D. CASEY (Mackay—Minister caveat, which was done. The owner of the for Primary Industries) (10.02 a.m.), by leave: I property was in constant contact with the Titles desire to inform the Parliament that after Office, but her solicitors only made formal consultation last weekend with my family and contact with my office on 23 May to discuss the executive members of my local campaign the case. A meeting was then scheduled with committee, I have taken the decision to advise senior departmental officials for Friday, 9 June. both the Parliament and my party today that I The meeting resolved, subject to further proof now do not intend to recontest the next State on issues associated with the fraud, that: the election. property owner would receive a mortgage-free title; the owner's legal costs would be paid; Members would be aware of my serious and the finance company which loaned on the illness earlier this year, and again I thank them property would be paid out. for their support for me through that period. A I point out that under the old Act, this type major contribution to my problem on that of early resolution could not have been occasion was that my diabetes had got out of achieved between the property owner and the control, and resulting from this was the fact Titles Office concerning fraud cases. The old that my long-term life expectancy had Act required a property owner to be shortened. The reason I have decided to retire fraudulently dispossessed of a property before from full-time active politics after 26 years of the owner could sue the perpetrator for Parliament, and a term as Deputy Mayor of compensation or the return of the property. Mackay prior to that, is because of my current This new provision saves property owners, good health and the need to maintain control such as the person involved in the recent over my health problems. I am happy that I case, a tortuous court action and costly legal have been able to prove that a handicapped fees. By way of contrast, the court claims person can come back and contribute fully in a against solicitor Peter Palmer, who defrauded high-profile job such as that of Minister for several property owners, took 18 months to Primary Industries in Queensland, and I trust settle compared to eight weeks in this case. that my efforts in this regard will continue to give hope to others who may now be, or For the record—the recent fraud case was become in the future, similarly afflicted. one of five frauds committed against the Titles Office in the past year. The other four cases However, it is time that I gave greater involved circumstances where the duplicate consideration towards my own family and my certificate of title was used in the fraud. It is own future life. I do so with the deep regret now optional under the new system whether or that I will be leaving this Parliament and the not a property owner seeks—with no cost—a opportunity through my work to continue to duplicate for an unencumbered property. In serve the people of Queensland. That has this case, the owner did not seek a duplicate been my greatest pleasure, particularly during for her unencumbered property. Whether or my last two terms as Minister for Primary not a property has a duplicate, the Industries in the Goss Government, a Government guarantees market-value Government for which I will continue to work compensation or the return of the property if through the fullest of my ability for its re- fraud is committed against a registered election this year. property. This is exactly what happened in the 13 June 1995 12404 Legislative Assembly recent case, and this is how the Torrens to the committee. I also table the Hansard system in fact works. transcript of the public hearing held on 31 May I can only repeat: the system is secure, 1995. reliable and efficient and is now responsible for the record low 14,000 transactions waiting to ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C be registered, down from its record high of 63,000 last year. I add that all other States Report have, or are in the process of developing, Mrs EDMOND (Mount Coot-tha) electronic titles systems, while organisations (10.12 a.m.): I table report No. 1 of Estimates such as the Australian Stock Exchange are Committee C relating to Estimates of currently using the same technology, expenditure referred to it and contained in the dispensing with the issuing of share script. Appropriation Bill 1995. Whatever the system, sophisticated fraud will I also table additional information always be a problem because, in many cases, provided to the committee together with the the perpetrator has an intimate knowledge of Hansard transcript of the public hearing held the victim's business affairs. I would add that on 1 June 1995. In doing so, I wish to place titles officers acted correctly at all times and on record my appreciation to other members gave immediate advice and assistance once of the committee, and especially my thanks to the owner gave notice of the alleged fraud. the committee research director, Louise As a footnote, I mention that the Hepworth; assistant, Jayenne Conroy; and agreement with the property owner's solicitor committee secretariat, especially Sandy had been reached before the Sunday Mail Rowse. contacted my office for comment on Friday, 9 ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D June. This debunks the claim the Government Report acted only after the Sunday Mail became involved in the case. Mr WELFORD (Everton) (10.12 a.m.): I lay on the table of the House the report of Much has been said in recent times about Estimates Committee D relating to the the Opposition and its lack of policies. It does Department of Family Services and Aboriginal have a policy of back to the future. The and Islander Affairs and the Department of Opposition wants to go back to the pen and Environment and Heritage. quill days. It is not prepared to go forward with the rest of the world. At last the troglodytes I also table a copy of the Hansard have announced one policy! transcript of the public hearing of Estimates Committee D and responses to questions placed on notice. I thank all members of the ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A committee for their cooperation and on their Report behalf I express thanks to the committee's research staff and secretariat who assisted in Mr BARTON (Waterford) (10.10 a.m.): I the preparation of the report. table report No. 1 of Estimates Committee A relating to Estimates of expenditure referred to it and contained in the Appropriation ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E (Parliament) Bill 1995 together with additional Report information provided to the committee. I also Mr NUTTALL (Sandgate) (10.13 a.m.): I provide the Hansard transcript of the public table report No. 1 of Estimates Committee E hearing held on 30 May 1995. relating to Estimates of expenditure referred to I also table report No. 2 from Estimates it and contained in the Appropriation Bill 1995 Committee A relating to Estimates of together with additional information provided expenditure referred to it and contained in the to the committee. I also table the Hansard Appropriation Bill 1995 together with additional transcript of the public hearing held on 6 June information provided to the committee. 1995. I also wish on behalf of the committee to thank our research director, Ms Michele ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B Cornwell, and our research assistant, Ms Meg Hoban. Report Mr BRISKEY (Cleveland) (10.11 a.m.): I table report No. 1 of Estimates Committee B ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F relating to Estimates of expenditure referred to Report it and contained in the Appropriation Bill 1995 Mrs WOODGATE (Kurwongbah) together with additional information provided (10.13 a.m.): I lay upon the table of the House Legislative Assembly 12405 13 June 1995 the report of Estimates Committee F debt on a home that she owned outright. I pertaining to the Department of Lands, the ask: given that this case may be the tip of the Department of Administrative Services and the iceberg in this disastrous rewrite of the land Department of Transport together with titles legislation, will the Premier now admit his additional information provided to the error and provide for a proper duplicate committee and the transcript of the certificate of title to be required for any committee's public hearing held on property transaction? Wednesday, 7 June 1995. Mr W. K. GOSS: The facts are that in the last year there have been five cases of PERSONAL EXPLANATION fraud. Four out of those five cases or 80 per cent involved the old system that we inherited QGAP Offices, St George and from the previous Government. There has Cunnamulla been only one case—and that is the one Mr HOBBS (Warrego) (10.14 a.m.), by referred to in the newspaper article—which leave: Last Friday in this House, the Minister had already been dealt with before the for Rural Communities launched an newshounds from the Sunday Mail contacted outrageous and desperate attack on me the Minister's office. suggesting that the content of a press release Not only is the new system proving to be regarding Government agencies in superior to that which Mr Borbidge and his Cunnamulla and St George was untrue. The colleagues presided over when they were in Minister made a grandiose announcement Government but also property owners do have about the opening of Government agencies in the option—the right—to get a duplicate Cunnamulla and St George only to be certificate of title if they wish. Increasingly we embarrassed by my statement that in fact are seeing that people are moving towards a services provided by these Government paperless society while members of the agencies had been closed down two months National Party continue to write with burnt before in March 1995. Surprisingly enough, I sticks. Members of the National Party keep was supported— writing with burnt sticks while other people are Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member is moving onto the information superhighway. not allowed to debate the issue. He is allowed The best known previous fraud case, the only to say that he has been misrepresented. one referred to by the Minister for Lands, that Mr HOBBS: I am getting to that, Mr of the solicitor, Mr Palmer, was perpetrated Speaker. under the old duplicate certificate of title system run by the previous Government. A Mr SPEAKER: Order! No, the member massive case of fraud was perpetrated by that will get to that straight away. person. Not only did that occur under the old Mr HOBBS: Very well, Mr Speaker. The system; it also took about 18 months to get a Minister made accusations, and what he said resolution of those issues to the satisfaction was untrue. What I am saying is that none and protection of the property owner. Under other than the Attorney-General actually this system, it took about seven or eight supported my case when he conceded that weeks. The current system is a modern one services such as conveyancing, once provided and, despite the knocking and the false claims by the Government agency, would be by the Leader of the Opposition and his withdrawn. colleagues, it is a superior one. Every other Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member is State in Australia is moving or has moved to debating the issue. the same system. Honourable members opposite want to take Queensland backwards, but we are going to take it forward. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE Automated Titling System John Oxley Hospital, Release of Mr BORBIDGE: (10.17 a.m.): In Mentally-ill Patients directing a question to the Premier, I refer to Mr BORBIDGE: I refer the Premier to the many warnings that his Government the scandal of his Government's policy of received from the Opposition, the real estate allowing mentally unstable and highly industry and the legal profession over the dangerous criminals out of the John Oxley inevitability of fraud because of changes to the Hospital at Wacol with our without leave, and I land titles system. I refer in particular to the refer in particular to the most recent revelation case of a Brisbane woman who, because of that a criminally insane patient committed these changes, became liable for a $112,000 some 16 offences while on leave, and I ask: 13 June 1995 12406 Legislative Assembly what is the result of the review that his Health people who know something about Minister ordered into this practice and will he schizophrenia, they might just stop and have a ask the police to give priority to the bit of compassion for one second—but I apprehension of those people absent without somehow doubt it. leave? In relation to people who suffer from Mr W. K. GOSS: The Leader of the schizophrenia, a process is in place whereby Opposition in the Sunday Mail article referred tribunals and psychiatrists make to an individual as criminally insane. That is recommendations to the best of their ability in quite inaccurate. As I understand it—and I do relation to leave for such persons. No better not know the full details, but from the very brief system operated under the previous discussion I have had with the Minister for Government, and we will continue to be Health, who can give the Leader of the guided by medical experts and those tribunals Opposition more details if he wants—this when it comes to the best care for people who person does have a mental illness but is not suffer from the illness of schizophrenia. criminally insane. This is a person who, in common with a number of other people in our community, has the misfortune—— Wide Bay Region Growth Plan Job Mr Borbidge: Sixteen offences. Program Mr W. K. GOSS: The honourable Mr LIVINGSTONE: I draw the attention member should listen for a second and of the Premier to recent criticisms of the job remember—— program in the Wide Bay Region Growth Plan, and I ask: what progress has the Government Mr SPEAKER: Order! I ask the Leader made in assisting the region? of the Opposition to stop interjecting. Mr W. K. GOSS: One does not expect Mr W. K. GOSS: The Leader of the an Opposition to applaud everything that the Opposition should stop trafficking in human Government does, but I find it utterly misery for just one morning and listen. Human predictable and somewhat depressing that this misery is his stock-in-trade. It happens to be Opposition has managed to knock, smear or the case that, through no fault of their own, a spray graffiti over every decent thing that this significant number of people—— Government has done. Every positive step Mr Cooper interjected. that this Government has taken has been Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the smeared, and the latest example is by the member for Crows Nest under Standing Order chief exponent of this form of smear politics, 123A. the Leader of the Opposition, who has indeed made the sorts of claims to which the Mr W. K. GOSS: It happens to be the honourable member referred in relation to the case that, through no fault of their own, a Government's $50m Growth and Development significant number of people in Queensland Package for Fraser Island and the Wide Bay and Australia suffer from diseases such as Region. schizophrenia. Mr Littleproud: Why don't you protect This Government came to office with a them? commitment to develop long-term conservation and a management plan for Mr W. K. GOSS: There is a difference Fraser Island and the Great Sandy Region between—— and to end logging. It took a detailed inquiry, Mr Littleproud: Why don't you answer through which the whole community had a the question. Why don't you protect them? chance to have a say, to develop that plan. Mr W. K. GOSS: The honourable The Government acted, but we did not act member is pathetic. If he just listens instead of until we developed alternative employment trafficking in human misery—— plans and economic development proposals for Wide Bay because we were not prepared Mr Borbidge interjected. to see 100 workers cut off at the knees without Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the Leader consideration of their concerns. of the Opposition under Standing Order 123A. Unlike the Nationals and Liberals who, Mr W. K. GOSS: Many people find it when they ended sandmining, allocated some grossly offensive to brand as criminally insane crumbs of funds for workers to dig holes and people who happen to suffer, through no fault fill them up again, we took the view that not of their own, from illnesses such as only should the workers be provided with schizophrenia. If the members opposite took employment but also that it should be the time to do some reading or to talk to some worthwhile, long-term employment, which is Legislative Assembly 12407 13 June 1995 something that the members opposite never employment result—something the previous did for the workers of Hervey Bay and Government never even tried to do. Maryborough. In their approach to the sandmining issue, they treated the workers of Hervey Bay and Maryborough with contempt. Community Facilities Grants; Mansfield Electorate Briefly, what is the record that proves that the Leader of the Opposition has been telling Mr SANTORO: I refer the Premier to a untruths to the people of Wide Bay? Firstly, in letter addressed to him by the member for addition to the conservation decisions, which Mansfield dated 21 April. It was sent to him included the World Heritage listing and the just before a Cabinet meeting at which he cessation of logging, for those workers who ratified the allocation of $915,000 to schools in sought it the Government provided most Ms Robson's electorate of Springwood and generous redundancy agreements. Secondly, not a dollar to other schools affected more Maryborough heritage, neglected under the directly by the tollway. In that letter the previous Government, was bolstered by the member for Mansfield stated— redevelopment of Wharf Street and a range of "While I never expected that the other initiatives. Roads on Fraser Island were funds would be divided evenly amongst upgraded and employment creation projects the electorates, I did expect a reasonable were established. Regional business division. $160 000 out of the total $5 promotion was carried out, including displaced million is not reasonable." timberworkers being temporarily deployed in the Department of Primary Industries. The I ask: why were the people of the electorate of CBD was rejuvenated under the Main Street Mansfield denied the red carpet treatment Program. A local company further developed a grant application process that was rolled out in sugarcane harvester. Walkers developed a Springwood, and why were they denied their strategic plan. The QTTC developed a tourism share of grants? promotion program. In terms of tourist industry Mr W. K. GOSS: The people of benefit, the ABS figures show that from the Mansfield have been very well served by their September quarter 1991 to the September member and she can reel off a list of major quarter last year, visitor room nights in wins for the Mansfield electorate. If the commercial accommodation in the Fraser member asking the question is so interested, I Island/Hervey Bay area, including will be happy to provide details to him this Maryborough, rose 41 per cent as a result of week. those promotions. I know that the member for Clayfield is In terms of new industry, which was the working very hard to get the numbers, both key to ensuring that those workers were not within the Liberal Party organisation and in this dumped in the way that they were by the place, and I know that he has one of his Right Nationals as a result of the sandmining issue, Wing mates who has won the preselection we committed ourselves to, and we delivered, over Mr Beanland's man in Mansfield. They long-term, sustainable employment and knocked out Quirk with a branch stack. There industry including the $8m Hyne Sumitomo are very shonky happenings in Mansfield. woodchip plant, which opened in February. Mr SANTORO: I rise to a point of order. That plant injects something like $120m into Mr Speaker, I refer you to Standing Order 70 the local economy. It uses timber that would which relates to relevance. The Premier's normally be discarded from the usual thinning comments have nothing to do with the process of plantation timber. This Government question that I asked. helped to put together that project and direct employment for 80 people will result. The mill, Mr SPEAKER: Order! built by a Maryborough firm, Hyne and Son Mr W. K. GOSS: I will get off that and their partners, is a prime example of a subject; that sort of shonky, dirty dealing within long-term, environmentally sound industry. the Liberal Party has nothing to do with the With the cooperation of local business of this House. In relation to that governments in the region, the Government is particular process, while it has been criticised now moving to prepare development control by some members opposite as somehow plans and it is expected that those plans lacking integrity, the fact is that a set of criteria covering Fraser Island, Rainbow Beach, Inskip was developed. That process was audited by Peninsula, Tin Can Bay and Cooloola will be an independent firm of auditors. All the finalised by June this year. The overall result is Government did was accept the that this Government achieved both a first- recommendations of the group that was class conservation result and a first-class charged with the task of assessing the 13 June 1995 12408 Legislative Assembly projects. There was not a bottomless pit of Opposition members interjected. money. We said quite clearly that there would Mr De LACY: Opposition members ask, be compensation, not only for individual "How many unemployed?" There has been an property holders but also social compensation increase—— for the communities in that vicinity. The Government has delivered according to a Mr Connor: How many full time? transparent and audited process. Mr De LACY: I know that 89,000 more people were employed in the last 12 months, 70 per cent of them in full-time employment. Job Creation Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of Mr BUDD: I refer the Treasurer to order. The figures that I have quoted are as at repeated claims in the media by the Friday, 9 June. I now table them. Opposition Leader that the Goss Government has failed to deliver new jobs in the past five Mr SPEAKER: There is no point of and a half years, and I ask: can he inform the order. I am on my feet. The Leader of the House if these claims are correct? Opposition will resume his seat. Mr De LACY: On 12 June in the Mr De LACY: I will come to those Courier-Mail, Mr Borbidge said— figures in a minute. The Leader of the Opposition said— "The most recent statistics from the Australian Bureau of Statistics tell us there "The most recent statistics from the are actually fewer full-time jobs in Australian Bureau of Statistics . . ." Queensland as at September last year Mr Borbidge: 9 June. than when Labor came to power in Mr De LACY: I will come back to that. December 1989." Mr Foley: He's gerrymandering the That is another example of the way in which statistics. the Leader of the Opposition misuses statistics Mr De LACY: That is what he is doing: to achieve his objective of talking Queensland gerrymandering the statistics. The Opposition down and trying to paint Queensland as a cannot get away from it. State that is behind the rest of Australia. In other words, he is trying to prove the Mr W. K. Goss: It is statistical unprovable. corruption. Mr Borbidge: It's there in black and Mr De LACY: One would have to call it white. statistical corruption. I make one other point about the statistical figures. The Opposition Mr De LACY: The Leader of the makes much of the fact that 56,000 more Opposition says that it is in black and white. people are unemployed today than was the He also said that those figures were the most case five and a half years ago. However, it recent statistics from the ABS. I have news for conveniently forgets to say that the labour the Leader of the Opposition: the most recent force has grown by 249,000 during that statistics from the ABS are for May, not period. September last year. He ought to—— The figures quoted by Mr Borbidge were Mr W. K. Goss: Do you mean to say, actually from an ABS series titled "Employed Mr De Lacy, they come out every month? Wage and Salary Earners, Australia". If he Mr De LACY: They come out every read the whole report, he would have seen the month. The labour force series is published following— every month. The member should get some of "The A-B-S considers that the labour his staff to read them and keep up with the force series"— times. the ones I am quoting— For the record, I point out that there are 193,000 more Queenslanders working today "provides the better indicator of overall than was the case when Labor came to employment movements at the Australian power. Here are the figures: in January 1990, and State level." there were 1,310,000 Queenslanders working These figures that are quoted by Mr and in May 1995 there were 1,503,000 Borbidge are really a survey of business based Queenslanders working. These are seasonally on what I think the ABS itself says is a fairly adjusted figures, and they indicate that there imprecise database. From the point of view of are 193,000 more Queenslanders in jobs looking at the labour force—employment and today than was the case when Labor came unemployment—the figures that we use and into power. which the ABS recommends that we should Legislative Assembly 12409 13 June 1995 use are the labour force series, which is a telephones to provide direct contact between survey of households. the two parties. If Mr Borbidge told the full story, he would say that, sure, there are 56,000 fewer jobs. As Prostitution I said, those figures upon which he relies are very imprecise and are not really for this Mr BEATTIE: I refer the Minister for purpose. The ABS carries out those surveys in Police and Minister for Corrective Services to relation to average weekly earnings. Those the public debate over the past few years on figures show that Queensland lost 56,000 prostitution laws, and I ask: can he inform the jobs, but they show also that, during that House if he is aware of any political party that same period, 437,000 jobs were lost in the has an alternative policy on prostitution laws? rest of Australia. If one compares those figures Mr BRADDY: The administration of the with the figures for the same period under the prostitution laws that were brought in by this National Party Government, one sees that Government has proceeded very well indeed. 211,000 jobs were created during that boom It was very encouraging to hear the comments period—nothing to do with the National Party made recently by Mr Armstrong who, with Mr Government—and 924,000 jobs were created Cooper's support, was talking about smashing in the rest of Australia. the Queensland laws. If there is one thing that one can get from Mr COOPER: I find those words any reading of the statistics, it is that the job offensive and false, and I ask that they be creation effort under the Goss Labor withdrawn. Government is a million times better than it Mr BRADDY: I will withdraw them. It was was under the National Party. encouraging to see Mr Armstrong announcing Mr Connor: Why don't you bring on a that he was going to transfer his business to debate? Canberra. Mr De LACY: Any time. I conclude by On 28 October 1993, Mr Russell Cooper, making this comment about Mr Borbidge's the Opposition spokesman, was interviewed constant misuse of figures and statistics: he on radio by Colin Greatorix. During that uses statistics like a drunk uses a interview, he gave a preview of his party's lamppost—for support rather than for prostitution policy. Of course, we have been enlightenment. waiting for the follow-up ever since. I think that it is very important that, in this important year, we review the policy of the Opposition, or the Cairns-Kuranda Rail Line National Party, in relation to prostitution. Mr JOHNSON: I ask the Minister for Mr Connor: That was two and a half Transport: following the landslide that years ago. uprooted the Cairns-Kuranda line and the subsequent accident involving the line Mr BRADDY: Exactly. The member inspector, is it a work practice of Queensland made a very good point. However, it was not Rail to dispatch trains when track reports have two and a half years ago; it was nearly two not been furnished? If not, why was the years ago. I thank Mr Connor very much for Kuranda tourist train, with 168 people aboard, that, and I will come back to that. sent on its way without notification from the In relation to that interview—among other track inspector that the line was fully things, Mr Greatorix said to Mr Cooper— operational? "Russell, what would you propose as Mr HAYWARD: Track inspections are an opposition? If you were in government carried out on that section four days a week, now, what would you do to overcome the but during times of inclement weather the problem?" track is inspected more frequently and may, in I am referring to prostitution. In a very startling fact, be checked a number of times during a opening, Mr Cooper replied— 24-hour period. As a result of the incident, action has been taken to minimise—and I can "The first thing, as far as National only say "to minimise"—the risk in the future. Party is concerned, in 1988 I think it was, Basically, the process will be changed so that, we agreed at a conference to recognise in future, the employee will report in and give that prostitution exists and always will. I track clearance prior to permission being given think you've got to do that. Number one, to dispatch the first Kuranda tourist train. It is don't pretend it doesn't. proposed also to issue Kuranda train drivers Was that not fantastic? In 1988, the National and the infrastructure employees with mobile Party recognised that the world's oldest 13 June 1995 12410 Legislative Assembly profession existed in Queensland. Then Mr "We are developing it from there . . . Cooper went on to say what a coalition unfortunately, Colin, I'm not going to Government would do about it. Is that not come out and spell out exactly in detail marvellous? In 1988, the Opposition was what we intend to do at this point . . ." thundering towards the twenty-first century— There is more. The compere said— BC—in recognising the world's oldest profession. The coalition had a two-plank "Russell, I'm asking you on behalf of platform, as it still does. The first plank the people of Brisbane and you're not recognises that prostitution exists. Mr Cooper giving me an answer." referred to the second plank when he stated— Mr Cooper replied— "Number two, we also agreed there "That is perfectly fair and reasonable has to be a degree of regulation. Now I'm for you to do it, Colin and when we are not going to take it any further than that ready with our policy in detail to release because we are now in coalition and we that to the people, well prior to the next have to, we know, develop our policy so election, I can assure you, you will have that we have something that is workable." the detail that you need in order to make The compere said— a decision, as far as you who you vote for on this issue. There'll be no problem with "Russell, it sounds like you don't that." have a policy." On 28 October 1993, we were promised that Mr Cooper replied— well prior to the next election the coalition "Well, when I say to you that we would release its policy. Mr Cooper went on to have a degree of regulation as part of our blame the Liberal Party. I know that Liberal policy, this now has to be developed Party members are a terrible nuisance; Mr further and we will. Don't forget we are in Cooper cannot get them to sit down and work opposition, therefore it's almost futile what out a policy. Further in Mr Cooper's wonderful we do or say. It is what the Government dissertation on a coalition policy, he again does, as they have the legislative said— benches. They're the ones who are "We are fully aware of it and we are supposed to come forward with legislation doing that and it will be there for a wide that works." ranging discussion and that is a faithful Mr Cooper: Drive a train through yours. promise." Mr BRADDY: The honourable member The faithful promise has never been delivered. should listen; I am reading his policy. The As Mr Greatorix said— compere said— "Russell, it sounds like you don't "Russell, with the greatest of respect. have a policy." It is not futile. I'm asking you what you Mr Cooper interjected. would do if you were in power. I may want to vote for you. I may want to know what Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable your platform is going to be. It's easy in member for Crows Nest has been warned opposition to pull the tiger's tail, pull the under Standing Order 123A. I have been very Government's tail." tolerant. The honourable members for Crows Nest and Rockhampton will stop speaking to He went on to ask— each other. "What will you do?" Mr Cooper: A darned site better than Land Title Fraud you've done. Mr HOBBS: I refer the Minister for Mr BRADDY: It is a wonderful policy for Lands to his Government's obvious reluctance Opposition! Mr Cooper continued— to assist a home owner who was a victim of "Colin, I think what I have said fraud under his new land titling system until indicates a pretty realistic position to take the media became involved. I refer also to and that is a degree of regulation." reported claims by the head of A. C. Fox and The compere asked— Associates and the President of the Independent Legal Services Association, Mr "What degree, Russell? What Ian Phillips, who indicated that fraud involved degree?" with his Government's new Land Title Act will Mr Cooper replied— spiral in the next few years, and I ask: how can Legislative Assembly 12411 13 June 1995 the Minister honestly state that his new land Environmental Standards titling system is more secure than the previous Mr BREDHAUER: I direct a question to system when the only substantial fraud case the Minister for Minerals and Energy. With this century that can be cited under the reference to recent comments of a former previous system is the Peter Palmer case, member of the Tasmanian Parliament, Mr Bob whereas there is now the Denise Maw case Brown, who has said that the Liberal and and suspected others all within a year? Can National Parties are good environmental the Minister assure this House that citizens, can the Minister inform the House of confidentiality clauses are not part of the examples of how the Government is improving compensation arrangements of such environmental standards in our State? settlements? Mr McGRADY: I thank the member for Mr SMITH: I can assume only that the that question. I understand the honourable Opposition spokesman must be deaf as well member's concern, because some of the as dumb. The case has been fairly well put examples of what the National and Liberal this morning. The honourable member Parties allowed to happen in this State are in mentioned other cases. There is no evidence his electorate, particularly on Horn Island. whatsoever that other cases are around. We Firstly, talking about the Opposition and the have never said that it was not possible to environment in the same breath is certainly a commit fraud. It is a crime to commit robbery. contradiction in terms. The National and Although we cannot stop that crime from Liberal Parties, who are like the kids all being committed, we can catch the hanging around together even though they do perpetrators of the crime and convict them. not like each other, will say anything to pick up a few preferences. That is what their marriage The honourable member's comment that the of convenience is all about. department failed to assist Mrs Maw until such time as she went to the Sunday Mail is The characters opposite are laughing up absolute bunkum and rubbish, which I have their sleeves at the Green Party. They are not told him before. The fact is that Mrs Maw had fair dinkum. I can give the House some frequent contact with the department over examples of the things that the Goss quite a period. The action that she took was Government has done over recent years. Firstly, the Opposition in Queensland has on the advice of my department. been responsible for some of the most Mr Hobbs: You wouldn't answer their shocking examples of environmental mail. vandalism ever seen in this State. I have already mentioned Horn Island, and I can Mr SMITH: That is nothing to do with it. I mention many more examples. We are paying am telling the honourable member that there the price for the Opposition's total disregard of was one-to-one contact with Mrs Maw over a environmental matters. The taxpayers of period. As I indicated to the honourable Queensland are footing the bill for the member earlier, the whole matter was able to rehabilitation of abandoned mine sites that be tidied up in seven or eight weeks compared were left in a disgraceful condition due to the with the 18 months that it took with respect to complete lack of guidance or consideration of the Peter Palmer case. The honourable environmental planning in the mining industry. member also said that the only case that I In general, the industry is willing to could produce with respect to the fraudulent behave and is behaving in a responsible use of the duplicate was the Peter Palmer manner, but members opposite actively case. Again, the honourable member has not discouraged any consideration for the been listening. This morning, I said that there environment. The Goss Government is have been four other cases this year that rectifying that situation, both by fixing up the involved a duplicate. As I said before, the mess and by putting policies and legislation system that we have in place is a secure and into effect to ensure that these things never superior one. All the honourable member ever happen again. I would like to take every wants to do is turn back the clock and return to environmentally conscious person to some of the days of the clerk with a little old shade cap those sites around this State and show them on his forehead and a quill and ink. That is the just what the environmental vandals opposite policy of the National Party. It is going have been responsible for. nowhere. If that is the best that honourable Opposition members are laughing up their members opposite can come up with, they will sleeves at the Green Party's enthusiasm to be sitting on the other side of the House for a accept them at face value. Even while they tell very long time. the Greens that they have changed their 13 June 1995 12412 Legislative Assembly ways, members opposite are doing things that property market, which has meant that some give the lie to their true position in regard to of the properties were more difficult to dispose the environment. The Opposition's energy of than we first anticipated. Nevertheless, I am policy hinges on the construction of a major very confident that this program will be new coal-fired power station, which would successful. obviously need new transmission lines, while at the same time denouncing the Eastlink transmission line, which will defer our having to Trading Hours build a new generation capacity. Do the Mr BARTON: I refer the Minister for Greens really support this policy? I doubt it! Employment, Training and Industrial Relations The people of Queensland have to to a variety of statements by Opposition consider our environmental record compared members on trading hours, and I ask: can he with that of those opposite. I have said it outline the impact of the Opposition's retail before and I will say it again: the people trading hours policy on Queensland families? opposite stand condemned by the majority of Mr FOLEY: It is hard to say, but I Queenslanders as environmental vandals, and suspect that the Opposition's policy on retail nothing that they have said and done in trading hours will mean that many Queensland recent times will change our view of them. If families will not have the opportunity to shop the people of Queensland want to return this during weeknights that they currently enjoy outfit to Government, they will pay the price, under this Government. that is, more and more and more Mr Connor: That's not true. environmental damage to this State. Mr FOLEY: I am glad that the honourable member for Nerang at least is Government Employee Housing participating in the discussion on this topic, Scheme because the families of Queensland are Mr LINGARD: I refer the Minister for asking: what is the Opposition's policy? In a Administrative Services to his letter to the media statement on 31 January, Mrs Sheldon editor last year promising investment in rural stated— housing, which was distributed to dozens of "The Queensland Coalition will rural papers, including Queensland Country immediately review all trading hours upon Life, in which he states— winning government in this year's state "We are spending $20m on this election." scheme this financial year." In a media statement shortly thereafter, Mr The Minister further stated— Connor stated— "It's Mr Borbidge whose party used to "No-one argues that there needs to support this sort of spending, who is doing be reform in trading hours in the hoodwinking." Queensland." This morning, the Premier spoke of untruths. I The Opposition must have hired as a ask the Minister: as he has now admitted that consultant the Delphic oracle himself, because this year the Government spent only $3.8m on its small-business policy released in April this program, will he apologise to the people of stated— rural Queensland, or will he try to cover it up by "The Coalition endorses fair but making further false promises about the rigorous competition. This competition future? and the resultant services need to be Mr MILLINER: When the Government discussed and reviewed in a balanced Employee Housing Scheme was first put in way. The matter of trading hours should place, it was intended that this year $20m be left to an Independent Umpire where would be spent. As I explained to the member judgment is made on each individual during the Estimates committee hearing, there application." has been a slowdown in the program for a That is what the coalition purports to be its couple of reasons, the first being that the policy. That also happens to be the policy of number of houses handed up for disposal was the Government. But the big question is not as large as we expected. However, the whether or not the coalition will repeal the number of houses handed up for disposal is Trading (Allowable Hours) Act and return to a now higher than we expected. We anticipated situation in which people are not allowed to that this year 200 houses would be handed up shop during the week. The coalition is for disposal. The number is now 211 houses. strangely silent on that, and the reason is There has also been a downturn in the simply this: it does not know whether it should Legislative Assembly 12413 13 June 1995 have the courage to tell families that they will Mr FOLEY: The Government has once again have to shop till they drop on improved statistical data on rural injuries and Thursday nights and Saturday mornings or incidents as well as their causes. The whether it should go back to its small-business Government has delivered health and safety friends—who are dwindling in number—and initiatives through local farm safety action say that it is going to reverse its stand and groups, has delivered appropriate advisory adopt the Government's position of allowing standards and has delivered information and more liberalised trading hours. education programs. The Government has The big question is: what will be the established a Rural Industry Workplace Health outcome of Mrs Sheldon's review? Will and Safety Committee to provide advice on Queensland consumers be able to do their rural health and safety, and Queensland shopping on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday Farmsafe makes recommendations to the and Friday nights, or will we see a return to the rural industry committee. shop-till-they-drop mentality? No issue On this issue, the Opposition has yet illustrates more poignantly the failure of the again not produced its policy, except the Opposition to come clean with the statement from the member for Warwick in the Queensland people. If Mr Greatorix were to Border Post in which he stated— say to Mr Cooper, "Where is your policy, "Queensland's Workplace Health and Russell?", on the issue of trading hours one Safety Act must be abolished." may well to say to the Opposition, "Where is your policy?" Mr Springborg and Mr Cooper are on the record as advocating the abolition of the Workplace Health and Safety Act so far as it Mrs D. Korn applies to rural industry. So let those workers in rural industry note that a National Party Mr LITTLEPROUD: I refer the Minister Government would abolish those provisions. for Family Services to the case of Mrs Diane Mr Santoro has again been strangely silent on Korn of 6 Sterry Street, Proserpine—a highly the Opposition's policy with regard to rural respected citizen who often allows children to industry. It is of great importance to rural wait at her home with her six children until their workers the length and breadth of Queensland parents pick them up. Mrs Korn claims that the as to whether or not that great reform Department of Family Services has instructed introduced by Nev Warburton will be rolled her to keep a register of all children who enter back by a National Party Government were it and leave her home after a complaint of to be elected. verbal child abuse was made against her. Bearing in mind that Mrs Korn's home is a Mr SPEAKER: Order! The time for safety house and that she is president of the questions has now expired. Safety House Committee, I ask the Minister: is her department acting within its rights to MATTERS OF PUBLIC INTEREST demand that no more than seven children should visit Mrs Korn at any one time and that Government's Record on she must have children sign in and out when Environmental Issues they visit? Mr SLACK (Burnett) (11 a.m.): The Government's record on the environment and Ms WARNER: Given the vast number of environmental issues will be an influencing cases that my department deals with, I do not factor in determining the outcome of the off the top of my head know of this particular forthcoming State election, and the case. I will investigate it and let the member Government knows it. That is why, during the know the details that he seeks. last two weeks of Parliament, there have been several dorothy dix questions on the Workplace Health and Safety, Rural environment from Government members, and Industry there were some more today. That is why the Government is panicking. The Premier and his Mr BENNETT: I refer the Minister for Ministers suddenly realise that genuine Employment, Training and Industrial Relations environmentalists who have looked past the to the fact that rural industry has the highest gloss, the imagery and the rhetoric have seen accident rate of any industry. I ask: what the Government for what it really is on specific measures have been taken to improve environmental issues—hypocritical, lacking in workplace health and safety in rural substance and being increasingly recognised workplaces, and what is the Opposition's not for what it has done but for what it has not position on this issue? done. The facade has not been enough, 13 June 1995 12414 Legislative Assembly broken promises have been recognised and issues where this Government has failed and the feeling is that the Government cannot be been found wanting. trusted. It is also acknowledged that at least Then, on Sunday, less than two weeks the National Party, when in Government, was after the Environment budget was brought honest and is and will be honest on its down—a budget that claimed an 18 per cent environmental commitments. increase in spending on the last budget, but The Government's panic reaction has actually proposed a 2 per cent to 3 per cent been to denigrate personalities such as Bob decrease on last year's actual spending—the Brown—the Minister for Minerals and Energy Deputy Premier announced a $10m land attacked him today—and Drew Hutton, two acquisition program and measures to support well-recognised, avowed conservationists who the ecology in Pumicestone Passage. The are not about to sacrifice their principles, and Opposition asks: why was that not announced the electorate knows it. This is not going to in the Budget? Obviously, the Budget failed to impress the electorate, Mr Goss! The impress. What was the Government's reaction: Government's next step is to scare the panic stations, "What can we do?" electorate. It harks back to the Joh days; it The Government wants to impress the talks about those nasty environmental vandals people of Queensland with its fiscal of yesteryear. That happened years ago, and responsibility. It knows that the electorate will the electorate, as well as political parties, have not wear a Labor Government's Budget moved on. The electorate is interested in the blowing out because they would see it as policies and performances of now, and it will shades of Victoria, but the Government is not be impressed with a Government and gone without the environmentalists, so the Premier who hide behind the skirt of actions Government's decision is that people may not that took place many years ago. even realise that these environment decisions Then, of course, there is the little gem will impact on the balanced Budget. It has that Molly Robson, the Environment Minister, decided that it must act, even if it is belated. is picked on because she is a woman. That is The question is: what else is in the absolute rubbish! Ms Robson is being criticised Government's bag of tricks in the run-up to the because of her actions as Minister, or lack election. Is it further land purchases, or more thereof—and the Government's polices and of the Premier cuddling turtles? Spending actions, or lack thereof, have deserved hundreds of thousands of dollars on a rapidly criticism. Many of these actions, or lack declining species is welcome but is not much thereof, have clearly demonstrated to the when it is compared with close to $200m to save the koalas, or is it to save the political electorate that the Premier and his Minister hides of the members opposite? cannot be trusted. Take, for instance, the Premier's feeble attempt to mislead the Why did not the Minister for the Parliament and the Queensland public last Environment, Molly Robson, announce the week about the Opposition's policies. measure relating to Pumicestone Passage? Is it a sign of no confidence in the Minister? Yes, Let me spell them out clearly: firstly, the because the Premier knows the electorate has coalition has no intention of revoking the no confidence in her! That is understandably World Heritage listing of Fraser Island and the so. Let us look at the Minister's performance Great Sandy Region; however, it is certainly on just two issues to see why that is the case. concerned about the Government's The Minister and her department are in charge management of the area; secondly, the of the administration of the Koala Coast coalition will not allow logging in the rainforests Community Facilities Program. The Minister of the World Heritage listed Wet Tropics and, repeatedly denies that it is a slush fund. She while the coalition supports the construction of strenuously denies accusations of pork- the Tully/Millstream, it is subject to Federal barrelling in the part she played in gaining Government approval, and it has to be approval for $915,000 to be spent on schools recognised that the coalition has an alternative in her electorate. At the same time Carbrook energy policy for providing for Queensland's school, the school that will lose 30 metres of future electricity needs; and, thirdly, the frontage—probably the school most affected coalition does not support Eastlink, the by the tollway—significantly not in the eastern tollway, sandmining at Byfield, nor did Minister's electorate, knew nothing about the it support the excising of 60 hectares of availability of funds, so did not apply, although environmentally sensitive ocean-front land it had plenty of reasons if only it had known. from Dryander National Park to give to a Subsequently, that school received nothing Japanese-based company to build a third golf from the fund. I have spoken to P & C officials course. They are all major environmental of Carbrook school and I can assure the Legislative Assembly 12415 13 June 1995

Minister that she is not convincing them that it by a senior departmental officer of her own is not a slush fund for pork-barrelling purposes, department at her own ministerial advisory and the Opposition agrees. committee on 6 April. This proposed figure How can the Minister explain the propriety was confirmed by officers of her department at of her visiting the priority schools in her public meetings, both at Mackay and electorate with the Minister for Administrative Yeppoon, as well as by others who would be Services and preparing and submitting a affected. It was common knowledge. It was submission to an assessment committee claimed to be full cost recovery which Treasury consisting of four people, two of whom were was insisting that the department adhere to, from her own department, one of whom was and the advice to the bird owners was to fight the chairman? Fair go! Surely the Minister it. does not believe that the public accepts that, Further, I wrote to the Minister on 16 May in those circumstances, her submissions could objecting to the proposed fee rise to $825 on have failed or that it was an "at arm's length" behalf of bird owners who had contacted me. I situation. table the letter and the reply. Surely if the In response to a question in this House, Minister knew nothing of the proposal she the Minister was not prepared to advise would have taken steps to find out and, if it whether the regional offices of Education and was untrue, would have advised me in a letter Administrative Services, which would know the written to me 11 days later by her senior relative needs of schools in the area, were ministerial adviser, which states— advised. We can only assume from that that "The Honourable Molly Robson MLA, they were not. Surely, as Minister responsible Minister for Environment and Heritage, for the department administering and has asked me to acknowledge receipt of assessing applications, she should have taken your letter dated 19th May 1995 no part in assessing and submitting concerning the increase in bird licensing applications to her own officers, and surely she fees. had an obligation to see that the regional Ms Robson will write as soon as offices of Education and Administrative possible. Services were officially notified to ensure that Yours sincerely." the fund was fairly distributed. For that matter, why was a fund, which in itself had nothing to In these circumstances, how can the Minister do with the Environment, placed in the hands claim to know nothing of the proposal on 2 of the Minister for Environment as surely, apart June 1995? No wonder the public trust neither the Minister nor the Government on from its name, it had more relevance to the environmental issues. Administrative Services Department or the Transport Department? The Minister can Finally, I would like to make a point in argue all she likes, but the circumstances relation to the punishment meted out by the surrounding the application of the fund point Government to Pine Rivers State High School to our conclusion that the fund has been used students in relation to the unfortunate recent for political purposes. incident involving mutton birds. The punishment does not fit the crime. I fully Then there is the matter of the native bird accept that the crime was one which deserved licensing fees. The Minister has admitted, punishment. Community service work is a when speaking of the recreational wildlife suggestion, but those children should not be specialist licences, that "the current fee is permanently banned from schools. The $150 and the full cost recovery fee will be publicity surrounding the event has amply $825", yet she has stated that her Director- demonstrated the community's abhorrence of General, Dr Craig Emerson, Mr Rolfe of her the killing of the birds and I am sure that the department and herself had not heard of the publicity will lead to much greater care in $825 fee "except perhaps through my media relation to visits to similar areas. releases". Either the Minister was not prepared to admit to something that was causing a However, I believe that those young great outcry in the electorate and likely to lose people are victims of this Government's the Government votes, or she just did not growing irrationality in wanting to be seen to know. If she did not know, she has lost control be tough on crime and particularly to its stick of her department and does not know what is rather than carrot approach to environmental going on, which must raise questions about regulation. The punishment is draconian and I her competency. If she did know, she was would hope that the Minister will discuss this guilty of misleading the Estimates committee issue with the Education Minister and seek a and the public on the issue. I say this because review of his decision. It is simply over the top. the $825 licence fee was the figure spoken of Time expired. 13 June 1995 12416 Legislative Assembly

Pumicestone Passage environmental park. The package released on Mr J. H. SULLIVAN (Caboolture) Sunday contains what has been known since (11.10 a.m.): It is with some relish that I follow the member's time in Government as Stage 2 the previous speaker in this Matters of Public of the environmental park, faithfully and Interest debate, particularly as I wanted to honestly promised by his Government and the speak on one of the initiatives of the former member, Bill Newton, but never Government which that member denigrated delivered. The Opposition also gave away vast over the weekend. I refer to the $10m tracts of prime land on Pumicestone Passage Pumicestone Passage package. to the Turnbull family under what was called an heirloom lease; an heirloom lease does not The member for Burnett is the man with exist. The Opposition gave its cronies a vast the thickest hide in the State of Queensland. amount of land on Pumicestone He dared to stand in this Parliament and Passage—land to which they had never had criticise our Government for engaging publicly any claim or held any title. The member is a with other public figures in the environment fraud. debate in this State. I note the recent involvement of Dr Bob Brown from Tasmania Mr SLACK: I rise to a point of order. I and the long-time involvement of Drew Hutton. find those remarks offensive and ask that they The member dares to denigrate us for that. At be withdrawn. least those public figures are engaging in Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I withdraw. public debate. However, time and time again Mr SPEAKER: Order! Were those under parliamentary privilege, this coward comments directed at Mr Slack? denigrates a senior public servant in the Environment and Heritage Department whom Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: They are directed he knows cannot stand up for himself and is at the Opposition, but the member is trying to not a public figure engaged in the public take up my time. In advance I withdraw debate in this State. This man is a coward. anything to which Mr Slack may wish to take offence. Mr SLACK: I rise to a point of order. I find those remarks offensive. I am not Pumicestone Passage is a vitally denigrating public servants. I ask that those important environmental area. It is an remarks be withdrawn; they are untrue. important fish nursery. It is also important because turtles, dugong and many species of Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable dolphin are regularly seen there. Bird life is member will withdraw. particularly plentiful in the area. There are Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I withdraw at your nearly as many species of birds in request, Mr Speaker, but the Hansard record Pumicestone Passage as there are in Kakadu of this place will show the truth of what I am National Park. We have in fact gazetted saying and the lie in what this man has said. Buckley's Hole in Pumicestone Passage as an I acknowledge the presence in the gallery environmental park to protect the bird habitat. of Year 7 students from St Michael's College A number of species protected by the Japan- in my electorate. I welcome them to the Australia and China-Australia migratory bird Parliament. agreements regularly winter or summer at Pumicestone Passage, and as many as I wish to speak on one of the 10,000 to 15,000 in total come around. environmental packages that was released over the weekend by the Deputy Premier, Tom The Goss Government has provided Burns, relating to Pumicestone Passage in my Pumicestone Passage with protection, not electorate. only Buckley's Hole Environmental Park. The Government has bought back from the Mr Welford: Opposed by the National Turnbull family the lease the Opposition gave Party. them, which would have enabled the Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: Absolutely development of another canal estate in opposed by the National Party, indeed. Pumicestone Passage. The Government Mr Slack: Did not oppose it. included with that lease the vestibule area north of White Patch, and we have made that Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: Did not oppose it! part of the Pumicestone National Park. In 1982, the former Government released the Pumicestone Passage Water Quality and On the eastern shore of Pumicestone Land Use Report. What did it do? Nothing! Passage the Government has done The Opposition did nothing except make something that the Opposition would never empty and hollow promises. It put in a bit of a do: it has completely eliminated any further national park and a little bit of an development opportunities along the coast of Legislative Assembly 12417 13 June 1995

Bribie Island. We did so at great cost. Secondly, the Government has bought Thooloora Island cost over $500,000. I am not the freehold land belonging to the Elders sure of the exact price of the Turnbull lease, Financial Group as mortgagee in possession but I know the Government set aside for the Emanuel Group. Mr Slack wonders why $350,000 for it. There can be no additional this occurred only last weekend. If he had development in that area. What the member taken any interest in my area, Mr Slack would is saying and what the Opposition did is be aware of the difficulties that the Emanuel wrong; the Opposition's 1982 report was never Group got into. He would also be aware of the followed up. recent entry into the area of the Elders This morning, Mr Slack has discovered Financial Group as mortgagee in possession. Pumicestone Passage. How long has he been It was only last week that the deal was signed in this Parliament as Environment with them. Why would we announce a deal in spokesman? How long have I been fighting to the Budget that had not been signed? That is get something done for Pumicestone the Opposition's kind of budgetary work. The Passage? But the member has discovered it old Joh phantom projects, the ones they this morning—only to criticise; he has never cannot deliver, are the ones that they done anything positive about Pumicestone announce and say, "What good boys are we!" Passage, and he probably has not even been there. If he has, so well publicised was his visit Mr Slack: Is it true that your Treasurer that I did not see evidence of it. The member announced in four consecutive Budgets the has done nothing for Pumicestone Passage; construction of the Bundaberg Police Station Bob Brown has done nothing for it, and Drew and watch-house, which still haven't been Hutton has done nothing for it. Drew Hutton built? can kick a number of cans, but whenever the Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I am not sure. environment movement has to roll up its Listen to me for a second. I am not sure sleeves and do some work, he is absent. whether that was announced in four Seeing him on the 7.30 Report last night consecutive Budgets, but I can tell the criticising this move as public relations did member about the Deception Bay police nothing short of making me sick. It was station. It was announced by his Government pathetic. and Bill Newton that it would be built after the One of the more significant elements of 1986 election. What happened? Ken Hayward the package released on the weekend by the won that seat, not Ron Grant, the distance Deputy Premier was that, for the first time, the runner. Between 1986 and 1989, the Government has moved to acquire land on member's Government said, "You obviously the western shore of Pumicestone Passage, don't want one! We won't build it, because you not just on Bribie Island or where our focus put in a Labor man." The Labor Party has has been for a number of years. The moves never played that kind of ugly, nasty politics. announced by the Deputy Premier on the weekend have been welcomed by the local I do not know about Bundaberg—and I environment movement. We do not care do not have to know about Bundaberg—but about Drew Hutton, but we are very pleased as Environment spokesman the member with the positive endorsement by the president should have an idea about Pumicestone of BIEPA, Mr Jack Baker, Mr Len Baglow, a Passage. If he wanted to visit the area, I am long-time environmental activist, and others sure the people there would take him around who have fought for this alongside me for a and give him a decent tour. He would see that number of years. All elements of the package what was done by the Government on the are well received by the environment weekend represents a wonderful movement locally, and the Green Party ought advancement for the area and something that to be aware of that. he ought to support, instead of standing up in The first and most important element of this Parliament and knocking. The member is the package is that it will fulfil the commitment all those unparliamentary words that I was to deliver Stage 2 of the environmental made to withdraw earlier. park—an area of some 1,090 hectares, which Finally, locally we welcome the fact that is slightly larger than our initial commitment to there is $500,000 in this package for marine Stage 2 of the environment park. That area is park management over five years. One of the an outstanding wallum area and wildflower things that has been very well highlighted to heath. We have incorporated into that national us is the need to move from acquisition to park, which was gazetted last week, the former management. botanical reserve that surrounds the arts centre on Bribie Island. Time expired. 13 June 1995 12418 Legislative Assembly

Automated Titling System Department's files and got hold of all the Mr HOBBS (Warrego) (11.20 a.m.) Crown law advice. Computer hackers can go Twelve months ago I issued a press release, anywhere. If honourable members opposite which stated— are stupid enough to think that they are going to be immune from computer hackers in the "The State Government's new Land future, they are away with the pixies. The Law Titles Act could facilitate possible Society also said that we need a duplicate fraudulent activity unless amendments certificate of title—a genuine duplicate were made before the Act was certificate of title. It told us right at the proclaimed . . ." beginning and it is still saying that now. That is what I said then. We have that The Government did not take advice from situation now. The Sunday Mail of 11 June anyone. It went in and did what it thought was 1995 ran an article headed "Crook stole best, but it was wrong. Honourable members my . . . home". Within 12 months my opposite caused the issuing of titles to be prediction has come true. The system put in delayed; business was held up and contracts place by this Government will not work. The fell through. Hundreds of telephone previous system was in place for a century, complaints were received. There was a and how many cases of fraud were there? As backlog of 60,000 transactions. It is now about many as one could count on one hand. 14,000, which is somewhere near what it An honourable member interjected. should be. We hope it will get faster, but still Mr HOBBS: But that is a different that is probably not a bad level. system altogether. The honourable member is The new system is open to fraud. I will talking about something different. Within 12 explain exactly how it can happen. I will months of the introduction of this legislation, a describe what a conman could do. Under this woman almost lost her home. She would have Government, a conman needs nothing more lost her home if she had not been alert than the street address of a property to start a enough to carry out a title search, and then land title scam. An unencumbered property is put a covenant on that property. Had she not best because it creates less suspicion when a put a covenant on that property it could have mortgage on it is sought later. The conman been sold out from under her. Honourable would go to the Land Titles Office and pay $8 members opposite know that as well as I do. for a description search, then $10 for the Their system has failed. In order to bring some current title search. The information contained security back into the title system they have to in the documents is more than sufficient to provide a genuine duplicate certificate of title. proceed. The conman may or may not have to That is what they need, not this little bit of produce a written statement giving that person faxed paper that is issued now if people want the authority to conduct financial affairs on to get what the Government calls a duplicate behalf of a client. If so, the client's name certificate of title. That is not a title at all. It is would be forged for the first time, but not the not worth the paper it is written on. What the last. The next step would be for him to go to a people need is a genuine bit of paper that mortgage broker, as opposed to a bank or goes with every transaction. It is there as a building society, and request that money be backup. That bit of paper the Government is raised on behalf of the client. The broker handing out now is not worth a tinker's cuss. It would find a suitable money lender and does not even contain a description of the solicitors would draw up a mortgage block of land. document. It would be sent back to the client's I want to talk a little about what has agent. The conman would forge the client's happened in relation to the introduction of the signature and that of a witnessing officer and ATS, the automated titling system in return them to the solicitor. The conman would Queensland. We were told it would be more pay the Government stamp duty up front and efficient. We were told it was going to be the the solicitor would then file a mortgage ant's pants. document in the Land Titles Office. The mortgage would be registered and the money Mr Vaughan: You supported it. sent directly from the money lender to the Mr HOBBS: We support the system, my conman as agent for the client. That person word we do. We support the computerised would previously have ensured that all system, but with a genuine duplicate certificate correspondence to the client be sent through of title to go with it as part of the record of the his or her office first. Instalments on the transaction. Anyone can hack computers. mortgage would initially be paid by the agent NASA has been hacked. Computer hackers to erase any suspicion, but they would even got into the Federal Attorney-General's suddenly stop. The conman would disappear Legislative Assembly 12419 13 June 1995 with the money or be caught by the Fraud for the trauma she has been through. She Squad. woke up one morning and found that she had I will cite another instance of what can a $112,000 debt on her property. In addition happen. Take a piece of vacant land or even to the trauma she suffered, her legal costs a residential property. Someone could put that would have been at least $10,000 or $12,000. property up for sale, put an ad in the paper, The Minister would not even reply to her have somebody answer the ad, take them out letters. How much more arrogant can one get to the vacant land or house when no-one is than that? In the Sunday Mail on 11 June, the home, tell the person that it is his property, Minister said— and sell it for $100,000, an absolute bargain. "There is nothing to apologise for. He could do the whole transfer procedure The matter was handled appropriately himself. All he would need is a standard form and correctly. The woman is not out of transfer and he could take someone's house pocket. She has suffered no loss in out of their name, put it in his and sell it. That respect of her property." is what a conman can do under this The only reason why she did not suffer any Government's system. This is the system that loss was that she put a covenant on her the Honourable Geoff Smith said was going to property so that it could not be sold. If she was revolutionise land titles here in Queensland. It not aware of it, it would have been sold from is going to put us all in the courts. The lawyers under her. She would have been out on the are saying that it can happen. They have street. Honourable members opposite do not been saying it for a long time. even guarantee a title. I will cite another headline, Fraud cases Mr Smith described as bull her suggestion set to jump, warns firm". The article states— that the Land Titles Office had refused to help "Australia's leading title search her during the 10-week ordeal. How much company has warned that cases of fraud more arrogant can this Government get? involving the new Land Title Act will spiral Everyone is saying to this Government that in the next few years. perhaps it has a problem out there with its land titling system. The Government says it Head of A. C. Fox & Associates and does not and just crusades on. The president of the Independent Legal Government is going to end up facing more Services Association, Mr Ian Phillips, said cases of fraud. How much has it cost now? the system was open to abuse. We have heard that at least $200,000 has 'This is going to happen time and been spent at this stage. There is probably again unless the Government goes back another $130,000 for Ms Maw's case. How to a system of duplicate Certificates of many more cases of fraud are we going to Title being issued.'" have? How much more of taxpayers' funds are Honourable members opposite have to get honourable members opposite going to put the message. Surely they can read the tea into the land titling system? It has cost about leaves. Something has to be done. $25m to put it in place already. What have they got? They will be in the courts forever and It is important also to remember that it a day. The previous system was in place for a was honourable members opposite who put in century without all that many troubles. place the new procedures for witnessing signatures. They have not worked. Because of An honourable member interjected. possible repercussions people are not inclined Mr HOBBS: The Peter Palmer case! to want to witness land documents. Banks will Honourable members opposite keep not do it. The National Bank and the mentioning the Peter Palmer case. That is all Commonwealth Bank are saying that the that they can cite. That is why it was wrong. system suffers from some problems and are We have no problem with going to a new very reluctant to get involved. They will not system—no problem at all—provided that a witness signatures. The banks are opposed to genuine duplicate certificate of title is provided. the new system, as are all lawyers. The only That is what the Government has to do. I one for it is the Government. Something must asked the Minister a question this morning be wrong somewhere. Surely all the wisdom and he would not answer me. I asked— does not come from this Government, from "Can the Minister assure this House the Honourable Geoff Smith—my God! that confidentiality clauses are not part of Something has to be done. the compensation arrangements of such I want to deal with the Minister. He is the settlements?" man who said that there was no need to He would not answer the question. apologise for what the Government has done; that there is no need to apologise to Ms Maw Time expired. 13 June 1995 12420 Legislative Assembly

Queensland's Health System; Royal into the community and will assist in Brisbane Hospital preventing unnecessary admissions to Mr BEATTIE (Brisbane Central) institutions. Also, $1m will be provided to (11.30 a.m.): I rise today to speak about the community organisations providing specialised health system in Queensland and particularly mental health support services. We simply the Royal Brisbane Hospital in my electorate. I cannot put people with mental illness into the do that because I want to dispel some of the community without support, as the Reagan nonsense that has come from the members administration did in the United States. When I opposite recently. I will place on record what visited the United States in the 1980s, it was the Goss Government has done in Health. I quite obvious that many mentally ill people will start by examining the initiatives included in who were no longer able to be housed in the record $2.7 billion Budget allocation, which institutions were trying to fend for themselves represents an increase of 11 per cent on last on the streets by begging. That was a national year's Budget. A total of $64m has been disgrace for the United States. allocated over three years for an attack on In the area of child and youth mental patient waiting lists in Queensland public health services—in 1995-96, an extra $2m has hospitals—I will return to that; $40m over two been allocated to provide a more years has been allocated for the comprehensive level of care in regions with implementation of the Metropolitan Hospitals inadequate services. Of particular interest to Rebuilding Program; and $35m over two years my electorate, in 1995-96, funding has been has been allocated to upgrade and modernise allocated for new psychiatric facilities at the the equipment in public hospitals. Royal Brisbane Hospital—a total of $9.2m. I welcome that initiative on behalf of my In relation to waiting lists, which is an electorate. issue of some importance to all Queenslanders, we need to understand clearly I turn to the Hospital Capital Rebuilding that $21m has been allocated in the coming and Equipment Program. I mentioned that an year for an attack on waiting lists. Similar additional $40m has been allocated over the amounts of money will be dedicated for each next two years to accelerate the of the following two years. The extra money implementation of the Metropolitan Hospitals will result in reduced waiting lists for treatment, Rebuilding Plan, with particular emphasis on increased hospital throughput and cost- the Royal Brisbane Hospital and, of course, effective treatment in the most effective the Princess Alexandra Hospital, which are our manner. two flagship hospitals. Those funds are in addition to the $1.5 billion, 10-year plan which The $64m over three years is divided into will provide Queensland with better hospitals three areas. Firstly, $9m will be dedicated to well into the next century. An additional $5m clearing the backlog, to target those areas in will be provided over the next two years to which people have been waiting too long. That upgrade and modernise the equipment in our is fair enough and something we would all public hospital system. The allocation to support. Secondly, $35m has been allocated upgrade equipment is important. From time to to a hospital access bonus pool, which is time, we hear the Opposition spokesman on being established to provide additional Health talk about the position that supposedly incentives to hospitals to treat people on existed when members opposite were in hospital waiting lists. Thirdly, $20m has been Government. The fact is that the hospitals allocated for a home support scheme being were using equipment that existed the 1960s; established for the development of it was out of date. If a person was on a waiting community-based health services that support list then, there was nothing to wait for, the acute hospital system. That is another very because the equipment did not exist and important initiative. I will return to the subject of neither did the services. waiting lists later in my speech. The management of public drunkenness Another area of particular allocation that I is a matter of some importance, which we all think is important is mental health. The need to examine. A new initiative will Government is committed to the best possible implement the Government's policy for the treatment for mentally ill people. In some management of public drunkenness, and that instances, mental illness can be best treated program is long overdue. The sum of $5m has within an institution; in other cases, it is best been allocated over three years for four, non- treated in a community context with medical detoxification units, collaborative appropriate professional backup. That industry and community projects, the professional backup is important. The Budget establishment of five post-detoxification provides $4m for support for moving people recovery program units and the provision of 24 Legislative Assembly 12421 13 June 1995 alcohol treatment worker positions, which are other hospitals and community health services important. We all know that the effects of that were not available under the neglect of alcoholism on the community and the the previous Government. Other strategies for subsequent impact on the health system are a the hospital include, as I said, a three-year, problem. Programs such as those are needed $64m hospital waiting list program to cut the to face those effects head-on. backlog and introduce a systematic method of In relation to nurse work force guaranteeing access to elective surgery development, an additional $6m over three according to medical need. As I said when years has been provided to develop a re-entry speaking to the Health legislation that was program for registered nurses, an accelerated recently before the House, medical need has skills acquisition program and transition to work to be the criterion, and that is long overdue. A program for newly registered nurses. This three-year, $42.1m package of incentives will funding will also help the transition for enrolled be introduced to attract and retain medical nurse training into the TAFE sector. I digress specialists and nurses. I fully support that and say that, having been married to a nurse initiative and I congratulate the Minister for for over 20 years, the conditions nurses enjoy Health on it because it is long overdue. now are certainly a significant improvement on As to specifically targeting the waiting what they had. I am not saying that the list—on 16 April, the Health Minister system is perfect, but it is certainly a significant announced that an extra 900 operations improvement. I remember in the early days, would take place in Brisbane hospitals over when my wife was working at the Mater the next three months through an extra $2m Hospital, the split shifts and the spread of being provided. In terms of the Royal Brisbane hours imposed incredible health pressure on Hospital, that will mean an extra 200 nurses. To hear the Opposition spokesperson operations, consisting of 50 hip replacements, in here and in other places trying to pretend 50 knee replacements, 20 prostate operations that the Government has not assisted nurses and 80 lens procedures. When the Opposition is not only nonsense, it totally ignores the spokesperson asks in this House where the dreadful track record of the previous money is going, I can tell him that it is being Government, both in terms of pay and spent in my electorate at the Royal Brisbane conditions. Hospital. I am pleased to see an additional $1m Mr T. B. Sullivan: Services to people. has been provided to home medical aid for Mr BEATTIE: They are, indeed. On 6 the expansion into the new technology of June, the Minister allocated a further $5m to communication and environmental aids. On re-open two theatres at the Royal Brisbane Saturday, I attended a meeting of senior Hospital. I emphasise that point, because that citizens who are Windsor residents. Those re-opening is specifically designed to provide people were talking about the problems that for elective surgery, which will result in an senior citizens experience as a result of falls in additional 2,700 surgical procedures being their homes and in the community generally. undertaken at that hospital over the next 12 They stressed that they needed a greater months. Those operations will eliminate 20 per ability to communicate in periods of cent of the waiting list backlog, which the stress—whether they had a stroke, heart policy-free whingers of the Opposition claim to attack or whatever. Communication equipment exist. is very important for our senior citizens. It is worth considering our track record and I turn to school dental services. I welcome that of the members opposite in relation to also the extension of school-based dental commitment to the Royal Brisbane Hospital services to 80,000 students in Years 8, 9 and and the entire Herston complex. In 1988-89, 10, which has been boosted in 1995-96 with the Nationals spent on that complex a total of an additional $3.8m, that is, $10.4m over the $211m, whereas we spent $284m to 30 April next three years. 1995. That is a 25 per cent increase, which I will now deal specifically with extra speaks for itself. In addition, the Government funding for the Royal Brisbane Hospital. The is spending quite a lot of money on items, Health Minister, Jim Elder, has put in place his including the provision of extra equipment. On four-point plan for 1995-96. That strategy 17 May, the Health Minister announced that specifically benefits the Royal Brisbane new medical equipment costing over $3m Hospital. It contains a $20m Home Support would be installed at the Royal Brisbane Scheme as part of the waiting list strategy to Hospital and the Royal Women's Hospital. which I referred earlier, which will provide That equipment includes 21 anaesthetic important links among Royal Brisbane and monitoring systems costing $1.4m; four 13 June 1995 12422 Legislative Assembly monitoring systems for high-dependency care, Treasurer De Lacy and the Minister as the $176,000; 30 patient-controlled analgesic best measure of employment—Queensland devices, $105,000; and also anaesthetic has 8.9 per cent of its work force out of work. machines. Although Queensland was not the only State Time expired. to record a rise in its trend unemployment in May, it had the highest trend unemployment rate after the basket-case States of Tasmania Unemployment and Job Creation and South Australia. Those States were left Mr SANTORO (Clayfield—Deputy basket cases by the experimentation of Labor Leader of the Liberal Party) (11.41 a.m.): Party Governments. All the other indicators in During the last few days, we have heard the May statistics—— much, particularly from the Government, about Mr Foley: And 89,500 new jobs in the the unemployment situation in Queensland last year. and about job creation in the State of Mr SANTORO: If the Minister has a bit Queensland by the Goss Labor Government. of patience, I will get around to comparing the I was not going to speak on this topic 1989 figures. The other figures that were during the Matters of Public Interest debate released for May 1995 indicated a decrease of but, because this morning the Treasurer made 659 in the labour force, a decrease in the some incredibly outlandish statements about participation rate of 0.2 per cent to 65.3 per employment and job creation, I thought I cent, a decrease in employment of 15,983 to would say a few words and analyse, from all 1,503,717, a decrease in full-time employment perspectives, the job creation record of this of 14,871, a decrease in part-time Government. There is absolutely no doubt that employment of 1,112 and an increase in this Government's record on employment and unemployment of 15,324 people. That is the job creation is a disgraceful one. I say that statistical record just for one month. because the facts speak for themselves. It If the Minister wishes to challenge me to does not matter whether we look at seasonally look at the historical comparison, I am very adjusted figures or trend figures, the happy to oblige him. In December 1989, there incontrovertible facts speak for themselves. were 50,400 unemployed males, or 6.1 per The number of people out of work is high cent of the work force. In May 1995, there and growing. Young people have been hit the were 85,500 unemployed males, or 9 per cent hardest and, most importantly, under the Goss of the work force. In December 1989, there Labor Government, the capacity of the were 46,300 unemployed females, or 8 per Queensland economy to generate long-term cent of the work force. In May 1995, there sustainable jobs in the future is forever were 61,800 unemployed females, or 8.7 per decreasing. The number of bankruptcies is cent of the work force. In December 1989, the increasing dramatically, the building industry total unemployment figure was 96,700, or 6.9 has hit a brick wall, the engine of jobs growth per cent. In May 1995, that figure is 147,200, in our economy—small business—is going or 8.9 per cent. If the Minister wishes me to through its hardest time in years, and look at not only last month's figures but also confidence in the future of the Queensland the figures of the month before, I say to him economy has slumped. I will quote figures to that they are the figures. If one considers the prove that. The Labor Party's legacy is one issue of youth unemployment—— of failure. The latest ABS unemployment Mr Foley: What about job growth? statistics for May 1995 indicate that Queensland is outstripping its peer States' Mr SANTORO: I will get to job growth in unemployment rates. Queensland has the a moment. The Minister should just wait. I will highest seasonally adjusted increase in answer each interjection, and it will prove what unemployment—one whole per cent up to 9.3 a despicable job the Minister is doing. per cent. That is 0.2 per cent higher than the Mr Borbidge interjected. 9.1 per cent recorded in May last year. Mr SANTORO: I take that interjection Mr Foley: What about the trend figures? from the honourable the Leader of the Mr SANTORO: From April to May, the Opposition. The Minister has been a failure. I seasonally adjusted number of unemployed will inform the Minister and the other members people in Queensland increased from 138,400 of this House of the Government's disgraceful to 153,700—a jump of 15,300 in one month. I performance in regard to youth employment. will take that interjection from the Honourable In May 1995, the number of people in the 15 Minister. Let us have a look at the trend to 19 age group looking for their first full-time figures. In trend figure terms—those touted by job was 10,800. In December 1989, that Legislative Assembly 12423 13 June 1995 number was 8,500. The total number of young 1989 to 1995, the figure was 111,400. That is people aged between 15 and 19 looking for despite the Government's boast of responsible full-time work—and I suggest that this is the economic management. most condemning and despicable statistic that The interstate comparison reveals that, reflects so adversely on this Government's over the last month, the unemployment rate capacity to create jobs, particularly for the has increased by 0.9 per cent to 9.3 per cent. youth within our community who are the most The Australian average is 8.5 per cent. The vulnerable to the vicious effects of male unemployment rate has increased by 1 unemployment—in December 1989 was 18.6 per cent to 9.5—the Australian average is 8.9 per cent compared with 32.2 per cent today. per cent—and the female unemployment rate That is the average. has increased by 0.9 per cent to 8.9 per cent. In regional Queensland, the story The Australian average is 8 per cent. So it becomes even worse. I remind the Minister of does not matter from where I come at this the figures that we produced last week in Government in terms of unemployment relation to rural unemployment. I actually figures—— asked the Minister a question in Parliament Mr Borbidge: I think they think this is as about this, and I was so confident of the good as it ever gets. Minister's answer that I prepared this press release 24 hours before he gave it. I said that Mr SANTORO: I really believe that the the Minister's answer to the question was Leader of the Opposition is right. In common again full of bluster, rhetoric and meaningless with that other disgraced Labor Party leader in references to meaningless statistics as far as Canberra, Government members really believe the people of regional Queensland, including that this is as good as it gets. Hervey Bay, Maryborough, Caloundra, The people of Queensland are not going Bundaberg and other areas of regional to cop that, particularly in relation to the great Queensland are concerned. incapacity of small business to create jobs Mr FitzGerald: You weren't wrong. which has been inflicted on that sector by this Government. It is estimated that receipts from Mr SANTORO: I was not wrong fees and charges have increased by $93m, or because the general unemployment statistics 8.3 per cent. Those figures are slated to rise show that unemployment in Hervey Bay is again over the next financial year by a further 16.5 per cent, compared with the 9.3 per cent $75m, or 6.1 per cent. In the December 1994 unemployment rate for the whole State. In quarter, bankruptcies in Queensland increased Bundaberg, the unemployment rate is 13.3 by 20 per cent from 620 to 746 in the March per cent; in Caloundra, it is 13 per cent; in quarter. Manufacturing sales and building Gympie, it is 12.6 per cent; in Maryborough, it industry performance indicators—the capacity is 10.7 per cent; in Rockhampton, it is 10.6 per of small business under the Goss Labor cent; in Mackay, it is 10.2 per cent; and in Government to create full-time sustainable Gladstone, it is 10 per cent. Those figures jobs—is being destroyed. When one considers indicate the general unemployment, but I say what the Treasurer said during his Budget that, in some areas of regional Queensland, Speech in terms of his expectations of the the youth unemployment rate is over 40 per Queensland economy to keep on growing, cent and, in some areas, approaching 50 per those figures to which I have referred reflect a cent. That is the legacy of the Minister. litany of low expectations. Mr Foley: What are your policies to Time expired. address those figures? Mr Borbidge: When they call the election, we'll release our policies. House for Youth, Hervey Bay Mr SANTORO: I take that interjection Mr NUNN (Hervey Bay) (11.50 a.m.): from the honourable the Leader of the Today, I will speak on matters related to last Opposition. When the Government calls an night's State of Origin game. No honourable election, the Opposition will release its policies. members would be game to say that they did not watch the State of Origin game last night That is the unemployment legacy of this and witness the exhibition of the spirit that Government. The Minister says, "What is the makes Queenslanders great and sets them record in terms of job creation?" Between apart from other Australians. There is December 1983 and December 1989, under something a little special about the National Party Government 193,600 full- Queenslanders. The knockers and whingers time jobs were created. Under the Goss said that it could not be done, that a team that Government, in the comparable time from was labelled as second rate and coached by a 13 June 1995 12424 Legislative Assembly joke could not win the State of Origin. How There are many stories of the wrong they were. commitment of the Hervey Bay people and Mr T. B. Sullivan: Was that the their dedication to helping themselves and Victorian who said that? their youth. For example, I refer to the people from the Glass Factory who made the Mr NUNN: I will get around to that. aluminium framed doors and windows. The In Hervey Bay, the same knockers and company donated the materials and the whingers said that a man called George Begg factory workers made them up in their own could not, when starting from scratch, raise the time. The people of the Hervey Bay City $250,000 which he deemed would be the Council in their own time laid on the services. base funding for the building of a police The tiles for the roof, the timber frames, the citizens youth club in that city. Honourable kitchen cupboards, the paint, the curtains, the members may remember that a few months floor coverings and the plaster board were ago the Premier challenged Queenslanders in installed at no cost, as was a swimming pool. all areas to come up with ideas that would Some people there would not have raised a help to combat the problems facing our youth. shovel or a hammer in anger in many years, The Premier said that he wanted ideas to but they came out of the woodwork to help. which the Queensland Government could The food for the workers was donated. When respond, ideas that recognise the inherent they ran out of roof tiles of a particular colour, value of our youth, that the youth of two members of Apex set off on a trip to Queensland are our most valuable asset and Brisbane. They did the round trip overnight that Queensland youth are as good today as and the roof tiles were put on early the next they ever were. Who can deny that the youth morning. of today are just as innovative, caring, courageous and ambitious as ever? The intention of the Rotarians, who are Whenever I attend a school awards night, driving the project, is to run a major art union group training seminars and wherever else I with the House for Youth, as it is called, as the go, I hear how great our youth are. prize. They hope to raise $250,000 from this art union. The House for Youth project One person who appreciates what our received magnificent publicity in the local young people stand for is George Begg, who media, and I saw a segment on Statewide TV with able ally Mark McKechnie set out to raise which featured the project. The Australasian the $250,000. They badgered, cajoled, Post sent a photographer for the three days, schemed and wheedled until almost 100 per and I believe that it intends to feature the cent of what was needed to build a top-class, house in a future edition of the magazine. three-bedroom home on a donated block of land in Eli Waters in Hervey Bay was obtained. The "can do" people of Hervey Bay Not only materials were donated; triumphed over the knockers and the subcontractors, tradesmen, council workers, whingers. The knockers were notable by their unemployed people, pensioners and absence. They did not turn up to help and members of every service club in the city all they did not support the youth of Hervey Bay, pitched in and did their bit. Even though the just like the Leader of the National Party, a project was driven by the Rotarians, all the knocker of some repute who cannot service clubs, including the ladies of Zonta, put remember the knocking letter that he wrote to in an effort. In the three days over the long the Queensland Rugby League disparaging weekend, the people of Hervey Bay built a the team selected to carry Queensland's house. In three days, Hervey Bay, through the colours into battle for supremacy in the State magnificent spirit which is alive and now of Origin contest. rampant within it, became a city that helped Mrs Edmond: He should eat the letter itself. publicly. People such as George Begg, Mark Mr NUNN: It should be fed to him bit by McKechnie, Margaret Lay, Mark Fox and bit. Steve Rhind were the movers and shakers but the people of Hervey Bay were the winners. It is typical of members of the coalition Last weekend, the people of Hervey Bay won that they would be negative with regard to their State of Origin when they stood up to be Queensland's achievements. Having no counted. They had recognised the new positive policy to put before the people of problems and pressures that confront our Queensland, they revert to type and knock youth and were prepared to get mobile and do and carp and whinge and moan. Coalition something about it. They built a house in three members are the archetypal "can't do" people. days with practically no cost being incurred by They have shamed Queensland before and the promoters. they shame people now with their constant Legislative Assembly 12425 13 June 1995 denial that anything good can come out of and that we had to fix up all of the schools Queensland. One would have to ask why the that were falling down when we took office in Leader of the Opposition adopted 1989, they better duck and stay well away Queensland as his own State if he hates it so from anybody who can throw a punch. The much. people of Hervey Bay are extremely angry with The Nationals' stance is in stark contrast members of the Opposition. Members to that of the Hervey Bay "can do" people. opposite neglected them when they held the What happened in Hervey Bay last weekend seat of Isis, which held Hervey Bay within its involved a monumental effort by the people of boundaries. They neglected Hervey Bay and a city which has come of age. They have they did not do a damned thing except build a accepted the responsibility of looking after monument to the previous member, that is, their own. They know that it is easy to ask the senior college. That is now starting to work Governments for handouts and it is easy to and work very well. I am glad that it is there. whinge, but they know that there is more If they could, honourable members would satisfaction and honour in a community having knock the proposal to build a university in the courage to help itself. Hervey Bay. The only reason they are not Yesterday at 3.30 p.m., the House for knocking the proposal is that they are not Youth was finished. It was an exciting and game; they are searching for votes all over the emotional occasion. As I said at the time, place. Honourable members opposite brought anybody who could not recognise that fact up this matter; I did not. I intended to make a was in the wrong street in the wrong city. All speech about the people of Hervey Bay and who had had anything to do with building that the magnificent effort that they put in. But House for Youth in Hervey Bay deserve the members opposite chose to denigrate that, congratulations of not only all in Hervey Bay which will be on the heads of shadow Ministers but everyone in Queensland. It was such a when they come to Hervey Bay. I know that great effort that it really deserves to have a their heart is not in coming to Hervey Bay. The song written about it, and I invite all honourable member opposite knows that, too, honourable members to try their hand. I have because I can tell by the look on his face that heard some pretty woeful singers on Saturday he is fully aware of the problems that confront nights in some of the local hotels, but some of his party there. Honourable members opposite those blokes are going to have a go, anyhow. should not knock the community of Hervey Bay. We are as good as any community in That achievement does a place such as Queensland. We might have sold ourselves Hervey Bay credit. It does people all over short for a little while, but we are not doing that Queensland credit to recognise that our youth any longer. Last weekend, we stood up and are our major asset, that our youth are the came of age. coming leaders. Because they face special problems in what are upsetting times, we need Mr SPEAKER: Order! The time allotted to support them with every—— for Matters of Public Interest has expired. Mr FitzGerald: Could I suggest the melody for that song? The melody would be APPROPRIATION (PARLIAMENT) BILL the same as So long, It's Been Good to Know APPROPRIATION BILL You. Committee (Cognate Debate) Mr NUNN: We see another knocker and whinger coming out of the woodwork with Estimates Committee A facetious suggestions about what is a serious Report No. 1 proposal; that is, to have a song written which The CHAIRMAN: Order! The question would commemorate an event in a is— community. If the National Party is planning to knock the achievements of the Hervey Bay "That Report No. 1 of Estimates people in its election campaign, I suggest that, Committee A be adopted." when its members come to that city—which Mr BARTON (Waterford) (12.02 p.m.): I has had three new schools built in five years, rise to support Report No. 1 of Estimates which is about to get a $38m hospital which Committee A. The committee held its public the Opposition Health spokesman said the hearings on 30 May this year. It began with people did not need and intimated that they the Estimates for the Parliament. The did not deserve—and when they tell the Speaker, the Clerk, the Deputy Clerk and a people of Hervey Bay that we should not have number of senior officers of the Parliamentary built them a new courthouse, that we should Service Commission were present at those not be preparing to build a new police station, public hearings. The format this year was 13 June 1995 12426 Legislative Assembly much more relaxed than it was last year, when committee members will be keeping an eye on Estimates Committee A was the first Estimates in the future. committee to conduct a public hearing. We The committee believes that it is timely to have learned a lot from that process, and it review the Estimates process, which is now showed in the hearings conducted this year. two years old. The committee has suggested We were not on the same steep learning that a review be undertaken by the Parliament curve this year as we had been 12 months on various issues. With regard to timetabling— ago, but it is fair to say that we were still the committee has recommended that expanding our knowledge and experience Estimates committees hold public hearings and, hopefully, developing our expertise on over two days and that two committees sit the process. concurrently. The committee has The committee examined a range of recommended that there be more preparation issues relevant to the Parliament's operations time for those committees conducting and, in particular, its core business functions of hearings at the start of the process and more the sittings of the Parliament and support for time for those committees holding hearings at members in performing their functions. We the end of the process to consider their reports examined in considerable detail the pro-active to the Parliament. The committee has approach that the Parliamentary Service suggested that, were more time available, a Commission is now taking to the operations of more structured approach could be this Parliament and its support of members' undertaken of the examination of a needs and the public's needs as they relate to department's Estimates on a divisional basis. the Parliament. The committee examined the I thank the Speaker, the Clerk, the Deputy expanded use of technology by the PSC—an Clerk and officers of the Parliamentary Service issue of great interest to all committee Commission for their cooperation and the members. Through the expanded use of frank and open way in which they answered technology, the commission is providing an questions and provided information. It is enhanced service and/or lower costs. significant that the appropriation for the Initiatives in this regard include phones, Parliament is once again the subject of its own computers and cars—the tools of trade for Bill. Report No. 1 was carried unanimously, members of Parliament. The committee was without reservations, by Estimates Committee informed of the enhanced computer systems A. The report recommends that the proposed and printers which are soon to be installed and expenditure for the Parliament be agreed to. I the new phone system which was recently am confident that that recommendation will be installed in the parliamentary building. The carried unanimously by this Committee, and I committee was told that these measures will support it fully. soon be expanded to electorate offices, where they are sorely needed. The committee was Mr FITZGERALD (Lockyer) also advised that Hansard is soon to be (12.07 p.m.): I rise to speak to Report No. 1 of available on CD-ROM, which will facilitate Estimates Committee A. I note that in its electronic searches and an electronic version unanimous report the committee recommends of Hansard being available in addition to the that the proposed expenditure be agreed to. hard copy. The report contains some interesting items. It indicates that the Speaker—who is the Mr Mackenroth: I'll have people executive officer acting in place of a knocking down my door trying to get them. Minister—as Chairman of the Parliamentary Mr BARTON: I am sure that people will Service Commission, was questioned by be knocking down the Minister's door. The use members of the committee and other of technology has drastically reduced the cost members. Those questions revealed that the of the production of Hansard from $156 per review of last year's Estimates committee page in 1988 to the current rate of $35 per process was not carried out by the page for the Weekly Hansard and $16 per Parliamentary Service Commission or officers page for the Daily Hansard. of this Parliament but by Executive The committee was impressed with the Government. That disappoints me, because I agreement with Treasury for the retention of am a firm believer in the independence of the some earnings by the Parliament with regard Parliament. to the sale of goods and services, educational We are all members of political parties, publications, seminar activities by the and the philosophies of those parties Education Office, the contracting out of obviously mirror our personal philosophies. Hansard staff to the State Reporting Bureau However, I am strongly of the view that the and the opening of the new gift shop, which Executive should be separate from the Legislative Assembly 12427 13 June 1995

Parliament. I am concerned about the fact those large electorates do receive extra staff, that the Executive undertook the review of the but nothing has been forthcoming. I am Estimates process, as revealed by the talking about only five seats. There are 89 Chairman of the Parliamentary Service members of Parliament. Surely we can provide Commission during the public hearings. I those five members representing remote acknowledge that that was only a minor areas with an extra office or extra staff. That review, and I am looking forward to a full-scale problem will continue to raise its head in review during the next 12 months. I believe Estimates committees until it is resolved. that that review should be undertaken by the Another matter that I want to raise is the Parliamentary Service Commission or a separation of the Budget, that is, whether it committee of this Parliament. Ministers have should be decided by the Executive three minutes in which to reply to a question. Government or the Parliamentary Service However, I believe that they need not always Commission. I questioned the Chairman of the use the full three minutes if the questioner Parliamentary Service Commission on this decides that he or she has a sufficient answer matter and was advised that, while to the question. I believe that that change negotiations did take place, the Budget was should be introduced. This very issue set by the Parliamentary Service Commission highlights the reason that the Parliament itself itself. I think that that is important. should review the Estimates process. Time expired. As outlined by the chairman of the committee, the member for Waterford, the Mr BUDD (Redlands) (12.12 p.m.): Like questions about the appropriation for the the member for Waterford, I am very pleased Parliament covered the savings that have and very gratified to be able to take part in this been effected. The member mentioned that debate. As all members know, this is the the Hansard section has saved a lot of money. second year of Estimates committees, and I The attempt to achieve those savings was believe that to date they have been very under way in 1988 when the Parliamentary successful. I am also of the opinion that this Service Commission was established. At that year Estimates Committee A—I cannot speak time, the cost of producing Hansard was under for the other committees—ran a lot smoother examination, and the attempt to effect savings than it did last year. Last year, we were has evolved over time. The use of technology novices. None of us had any idea of what the has facilitated that saving. I point out that outcome of those committee reports would be. technology itself costs money, because However, I am sure that members will agree members and their electorate officers now that, owing to last year's experience, the want electronic access to Hansard, the process this year was a vast improvement. database of the Parliamentary Library and I would like to extend to Mr Speaker and perhaps the Internet, and at the very least other witnesses my thanks for the frank and they want to communicate with each other via open way in which all questions relating to the modems. Those measures will cost money. Legislative Assembly of Queensland were The savings that have been effected on answered. It is pleasing to see that, with the the printing of Hansard will more than be increase in technology, there is a way to effect expended on other measures to support savings and to improve services in the members. That is going to continue, because Parliament. One of these services, of course, we have gradually seen this evolution of is for members to be able to electronically service to the electorates in which members select information or documents through the are involved. We could never go back to the Internet system, which has been mentioned days when there were no electorate by the two previous speakers. This will make secretaries. The people believe that members access to that information so much easier not of Parliament are public servants and that they only for members of Parliament but also for must therefore provide a service to their staff and other clients. I am of the constituents. That means that the demand will understanding that plans are under way to be there continually from members— utilise the data available through the Internet particularly members whose electorates are in system in the very near future. remote parts of the State—who are asking, One initiative that I think is worthy of demanding and doing everything they can to comment is the negotiation of a revenue get a second electorate office, where retention agreement with Treasury. The source necessary, or at least extra staff to cover their of this retained revenue flows from the sale of enormous electorates. That problem has not goods and services over the next 12 months. been resolved. A parliamentary committee has Sales of publications and the revenue recommended that members representing received from seminars conducted by the 13 June 1995 12428 Legislative Assembly

Education and Protocol Office have made a seminar was certainly worth the time and the significant contribution to that. effort put in by the Education Office. The two previous speakers made mention In closing, I would like to particularly thank of Hansard. I would like to add to their Darrell Martin and David Thannhauser, the comments. The provision of reporting services research staff, for all the assistance that was by Hansard to the State Reporting Bureau has given to Estimates Committee A. enabled the Parliament to receive more Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly) money. One of the advantages of the (12.17 p.m.): There are a number of issues provision of that service is that it enables that I want to touch on briefly. Firstly, it is clear Hansard staff to maintain their reporting skills that my comments over recent years in when the Parliament is not in session. relation to the lift system in this place have Mr FitzGerald: Originally they used to fallen on deaf ears. I cannot help noticing that come from the State Reporting Bureau down the lifts in the Parliamentary Annexe are going to here. There always had been that from bad to worse. It is not unusual to have to connection years ago between the State wait 5 or 10 minutes for a lift. Not only is this a Reporting Bureau and Hansard. major inconvenience to the Parliamentary Mr BUDD: I thank the member for that Service staff, who are utilising the building information. I have always believed that if one more and more, and to the members; it is also can wake up and learn something new every a considerable expense to the taxpayers. It day, it is worth while waking up. The Hansard might not be regarded by the Government as staff certainly deserve the remuneration that a tremendous expense, but it is certainly a they receive when one considers that not only great waste of time. Through you, Mr do they have to decipher our speeches—and Chairman, I ask Mr Speaker: when is the inane interjections from the Opposition—but Parliamentary Service Commission going to also our speech notes. Well done, Hansard! undertake a long-overdue proper upgrading of the current lift system? Mr Chairman, although As the member for Waterford said, the this issue has been raised year after year, you committee also noted the decreasing price of would have to agree that every year the Hansard over recent years. That is a situation has become worse. There is only one tremendous effort when one considers that real answer to the problem, that is, for publication time has also been reduced. The additional lifts to be installed. proposal to produce Hansard on CD-ROM will mean that Hansard will be more freely I am concerned about the decrease in available and at a much lower cost. That will security within the parliamentary precinct. The certainly assist the community to become decision of the Parliamentary Service more aware of the activities, decisions and Commission following the cutbacks in the debates of their elected representatives in this allocation of funds from the Government has Parliament. to be questioned in relation to this matter because, clearly, over a period, there has As I mentioned earlier, the Education and been a cutback in security staff in the Protocol Office made a substantial contribution precincts. That has been a cause of concern to the revenue received, and it deserves a not only for members but also for staff. special mention. The committee sought information regarding the extent of use of the I would also like to thank the library staff Education Office, in particular the service for their assistance to members—particularly provided to schools. This year, the Education me—in regard to numerous research projects Office conducted tours of Parliament House over the last 12 months. Again, owing to for 27,500 students. It is great to have such a Government cutbacks, they face the problem large number of kids coming through this of being understaffed and overworked. The complex and seeing the Parliament in Opposition relies heavily on the library's operation when it is in session. resources, but it is apparent that the Government's attempts to make savings is The Education Office also conducted resulting in reduced efficiency of the library. programs for public servants, Parliamentary This cut in resources will not affect the Service staff and new members of Parliament. Ministers, who have their own departmental When I was elected to this place in 1992, the staff, but it will certainly affect the members of service provided by the Education Office to Parliament who rely very heavily on the library new members of Parliament was fantastic. for information for their speeches and other When I first became a member, I did not know research material that they need. very much about the running of Parliament, that is, where to find things and who to see to Again, I implore the Speaker and the obtain information. That two or three-day Parliamentary Service Commission to upgrade Legislative Assembly 12429 13 June 1995 the library services to bring them into line with available to us, and it extends well beyond that of the Commonwealth Parliamentary simply Hansard being available on CD-ROM. Library service, which has a much higher Again I put in a plug for members in large standard of facilities and a wealth of country electorates. This issue has been resources. Federal backbenchers have three raised on numerous occasions previously: staff compared with one electorate secretary there is a need for two officers in those large for each State member. country electorates—and I think there are five The Government's new question time is of them—something which was recommended giving the Ministers of the Crown a chance to both by EARC and the parliamentary take a breather. The new question time committee. Because of the tyranny of distance restricts Opposition members—apart from the faced by large country electorates, clearly Leader of the Opposition—to asking only one there is a need for the Government to bite the question without notice whereas under the bullet in relation to the members who previous system they were allowed to ask two represent them. questions without notice. This affords Ministers Time expired. extra time to reflect and regain composure without being hit by a second question Mr DAVIES (Mundingburra) (12.23 p.m.): I rise to speak in support of immediately. Clearly, this has taken a lot of the Report No. 1 to the Legislative Assembly of sting out of question time, and it is most Queensland from Estimates Committee A, advantageous for Ministers who are not able dated 13 June 1995. Significant to handle themselves adequately under improvements have been made to the pressure. In view of the fact that the trial of the committee system as a whole in recent years new question time process was not considered and further improvements are going to be by the Standing Orders Committee prior to its made to that system in the future. The introduction by the Government, I hope that Estimates committee system is part of that this new format will be reviewed by that block of improvements. I understand that committee in the new Parliament. I there probably will be a review of that understand the Government's joy at the committee system at the conclusion of this operation of the new procedure, and I certainly year and, assuming that in the forthcoming understand the joy of certain Ministers. election the right party is endorsed, that review Lately I have noticed that many probably will be undertaken. Government Ministers have been absent Mr Budd: There won't be a problem with during question time. Let me remind them that the party. under the Westminster system Ministers are Mr DAVIES: I take the interjection from supposedly held responsible to Parliament the member for Redlands. As we go along, and therefore it is their duty to be present at the committee system in this Parliament is question time. That is the time when Ministers getting stronger and stronger. In a lot of cases are supposedly held accountable for their one learns by one's mistakes, and in all of the portfolios. committees we are learning by experience and Mr Mackenroth: Very few Ministers are from some of the difficult issues that we have missing during question time. to cover from time to time. The Estimates committee process is included in that. Mr BEANLAND: The fact that Ministers are out electioneering around the State in the I have been here for two Parliaments now run-up to the State election and are not and in the first Parliament there were no present during question time again shows Estimates committees. The system then was what little regard this Labor Government has one where members got up and made long for the institutions of Parliament and the speeches, hopefully about their electorate. It Westminster system. got to the stage that one could not just talk about one's electorate all the time. I think that I trust that Hansard being available on was a fairly boring system. The Estimates CD-ROM will lead to greater information being committees have given members of this available to all members of the Parliament. Chamber the opportunity to ask a lot more Clearly, information backed up by today's questions and to actually understand the technology is also required in electorate budgeting process a lot better than they did offices. I pose the question: when will we be previously. Looking at the last two years of the able to gain this additional information within Estimates committee process, I believe that our electorate offices? The information most members in this Chamber are better available in the Commonwealth Parliament informed about the budgeting process than through technology is vastly superior to that they were not only when they first entered 13 June 1995 12430 Legislative Assembly

Parliament but also than they would have Mr Mackenroth: The answers were in been under the system we had before. A lot of the document, too. members probably sat in the Chamber at that Mr DAVIES: A lot of the answers were time and really did not understand the in the document, and it was good to see that budgeting process whatsoever. That in itself the Ministers had read it and could show us has provided us with a great service. where the answers were. The PSC, which is the subject of these I would like to thank the various people Estimates, has been in operation only since involved in the process. Particularly, I thank some time after the election of 2 December our chairman, Mr Tom Barton, and deputy 1989. It was one of the first pieces of chairman, Mr John Budd, the Government legislation brought into that Parliament. and Opposition members on the committee, Nevertheless, there have been a lot of and the various research staff, for their changes around the precincts of Parliament cooperation. and within the Parliament itself. For example, we have seen significant changes in catering Time expired. and in the staffing of this area. Most members Mrs McCAULEY (Callide) (12.28 p.m.): would have to agree that the services that the During the Estimates committee I asked a Parliamentary Service Commission has question about the Education and Protocol delivered within their own electorates are a lot Office. I am very happy with the answer given better than when they first came in; they are to that inquiry. If I never agree with the certainly a lot better than when I first came in. I Speaker on anything else, I would have to say see those services improving all the time. that the Education and Protocol Office is doing While we can always strive for further a good job. There you are: I have been nice, improvement, overall the Parliamentary and it is not easy! I still do not agree that we in Service Commission has done a good job. In the PSC should provide the funding, but I terms of the Estimates committees, the think they are doing a great job and I am very cooperation that has existed between various happy with the answer given to the question I members representing the various political asked. parties has been very good. The report refers to six subprograms Improvements are to be made in the presently being reviewed, and one of those is Education Office. I note from the report that probably security. When matters of interest some 27,500 students will tour Parliament in around this area were discussed at our party 1994-95. Coming from provincial Queensland, meetings, the overwhelming concern was with I would love to be able to have some of the security. A survey of members showed that students from my area tour this place. security rated only 41 per cent and other areas of service within this place rated a great deal Mr Budd interjected. more. It seems to me that if the members are Mr DAVIES: If the electorate allowance unhappy, and more importantly if the security was increased to enable me to fly them down, staff themselves are unhappy, then there is I would do as the honourable member for something dramatically wrong that has to be Redlands suggests. One can see the number corrected. I can only hope that the matters of students in the Chamber every day, and about which I talked to the consultant here that is very good in the long term for the recently on behalf of our party will come to institution of Parliament. Other improvements fruition. We do not want to see our security include the video on Parliament, the Protocol staff unhappy. We want to see them well Office, and the Parliament House gift shop organised and backed up in the job they do. I starting up. One would have to be blind suspect they are not being backed up in the Freddy not to agree that there have been job they are trying to do at the moment, and significant improvements in the Parliamentary that causes me some concern. Service Commission. The report also refers to equipment in Another improvement implemented this electorate offices. We are getting new year was separate booklets produced for the equipment in electorate offices, and it was information of members on each department, decided that we would put that to one side and I include the Parliamentary Service until after the election because members Commission in that. That improvement has would not want to have new computers, etc., made it very easy. Instead of trudging through in their offices before the election. In hindsight the full Budget document, people can go to that was probably a bad move, because an the document on the Estimates committee of awful lot of members have been complaining which they are a member and prepare to me about their computer equipment questions very quickly. breaking down. They have said that they Legislative Assembly 12431 13 June 1995 would have been happy to put up with the Mrs McCAULEY: I have said my nice difficulties of having new equipment in the run- bit. I cannot be nice all the time. It is too much up to the election, rather than having old of a strain, I am afraid. I have done my bit. equipment breaking down all the time. We The technological advances that we are were not to know that and the decision was looking at for Hansard are all very fine but if made in good faith. something is put on CD-ROM it will The report does state that the committee disadvantage other people. I suspect that will decided that the matter of additional support be former members, like me, who one day will for members who represent large electorates not want to get their Hansard on CD-ROM but would not be dealt with during the current will want to have it in written form so that they Parliament. Of course, those sorts of decisions can understand what is going on. are made along party lines in the PSC. There Time expired. is no doubt that the conservative members are Mr NUNN (Hervey Bay) (12.33 p.m.): It very much in favour of additional support for gives me a great deal of pleasure to speak to members who represent large electorates. the report in relation to the Estimates of Certainly they need it. There are five expenditure contained in the Appropriation enormously large electorates in this State and (Parliament) Bill 1995 and the Appropriation it is very difficult for members to service them. Bill 1995. As all honourable members would They need to have additional support. be aware, this is the second year that we have Mr FitzGerald interjected. gone through the processes of inquiring into the Estimates. Last year we were on a pretty Mrs McCAULEY: Yes. I think that might steep learning curve. I am sure that we have have something to do with the problem. My all learnt from that. My personal opinion is that own electorate of 71,000 square kilometres is this year both questions and answers were big enough, being the sixth largest. It is not very much more considered. easy to look after an electorate of that size. When people read that and see what the One of the most important things about commission had decided, they should be this process is that it has ensured the aware that the Opposition members are very separation and independence of Parliament much in favour of that sort of thing but they from the Executive. This is recognised and are outvoted all the time. It is interesting being reinforced. It is important that Parliament be a member of the PSC—I do not say that it is free from these pressures, especially from fulfilling, but it is interesting. Some of the those pressures that may come from the things that happen I will file away and Executive. If the recommendations of the remember. Fitzgerald inquiry are to be implemented, then this basic requirement must be followed. As For example, on the agenda at a recent can be seen from the committee's report, all meeting there was an overseas trip which I members are concerned that the adequacy of had not heard anything about. No-one knew the level of equipment available to members anything about it. Mrs Sheldon apparently had means that they can properly discharge their asked about this and was told that it was not duties to those whom they represent in this on. It was not only on the agenda but the place. person who was going to take the trip was Reassurance was given that matters organised. He had been overseas and come concerning accommodation, levels of back. I do not begrudge him that trip, but I equipment and secretarial support are think it is interesting that these things are receiving attention. While this was appreciated organised elsewhere, not by the PSC. Those by the committee, there are, I think, other things are organised before they are brought matters which do deserve attention. It was to the meeting. disappointing to learn that the Parliamentary A few years back there was a trip to Service Commission had decided that the Cyprus. One member and an observer from matter of additional support for those the Labor Party went on that trip—it happened members representing larger electorates to be the Speaker. The following year when would not be dealt with in the life of the current our member went on that same trip to Canada Parliament. I took larger electorates to mean we were told there was to be no observer. We those larger electorates in western were not allowed to have an observer. These Queensland. are the little things that I will file away and While I would urge the Parliamentary remember. I am happy to welcome the Service Commission to look into the problems technology that Hansard—— facing those larger electorates, I would also Mr Mackenroth interjected. refer them to matters which affect those 13 June 1995 12432 Legislative Assembly electorates which are already over quota in committees meet to examine the Budget terms of numbers of electors. There are quite Estimates next year. a few around, both on the Government side Time expired. and on the Opposition side, which are well over quota. I think Burnett is the one on the Mr SPRINGBORG (Warwick) Opposition side that is giving the problems at (12.39 p.m.): In rising to participate in this present. I think it is only fitting that we look into debate today, at the outset I would like to the problems which confront these people, place on record my appreciation for the because it is not only distance that presents various people within the Parliamentary tyranny to the members representing those Service who help us out, including the electorates, it is also numbers of people. In attendants, Hansard, those in catering, those the closely settled electorates it is becoming in security, those in the library, the gardeners more and more apparent that the work is more and all of the other important areas that make complex and the demands being made on the this Parliament work very, very well. I must say electorate secretary's time are increasing. that I can certainly appreciate the work that they do and the great assistance that they Things such as the postage allowance are have been to me, particularly over the last six proving to be quite inadequate when there is years that I have been in this place, and no an over quota number of people. There are doubt for the longer-serving members, for the also lots of expenses. The main thing, I think, time that they have been served by the is the time to service electorates properly. various staff members here within the Once members get to the stage that time runs Parliament. out and they cannot attend to everybody who wants their attention, then the system starts to I would like to make some general points fall down. I think we need to be looking at not on the report as well as mention issues which only things such as postage but also the are not touched on by the report. First of all, I staffing of electorate offices. am a little concerned about the Treasurer's statements when he introduced the Budget The committee raised the matter of recently. He talked about the independence of consideration of a review of the Estimates the Parliament and how this Budget committee system, and it was suggested— established the primacy of the Parliament. I and indeed some members of the committee have a very grave concern that it may be agreed—that the Parliament would be the establishing more the primacy of the Executive most appropriate body to do this. I have no than the primacy of the Parliament. One would problem with that, but somebody else has have to be very, very foolish to believe that the suggested that there may be a committee Executive would be totally open and would not other than from the Parliament to do it. I think be trying to apply pressure on the Parliament Parliament could do it and do it quite well. in the way that it goes about structuring its Not the least of the matters which should Budget. We know that we live in a modern era be the subject of the review is that of timing and that in that modern era there is an and the allotment of time allowed for the expectation that various departments—and examination of the departmental Estimates by one could only imagine that the Parliament fits the committees. At one end of the procedure into that—would be rather frugal in the way Estimates Committee A had barely enough that they spend money. time to prepare for the hearing while on the I do not think there is a lot to be gained other hand Estimates Committee F was by the Executive over-resourcing a Parliament. severely constrained in its attempts to I think that is something that has probably deliberate on its findings. Again, it is a matter happened not only in this Parliament but also of efficiency and the effect which our in other Parliaments around Australia. I believe deliberations have. If we are to get the that we need to have a little more leeway in message across, we need the proper time to the drafting of our own budgets and in putting do it. It has been suggested that a system be forward other programs for consideration. I do implemented of having committees hold public not believe that we necessarily have the hearings over two days, at the same time resources that we need. It is not good enough having concurrent sittings of two committees. I to talk about the way things are now think that has a lot to commend it and would compared with the way they were 50 years also add to the better working of the Estimates ago, 30 years ago or 5 years ago. When I committee system. It may very well be that this became a member of this Parliament in 1989, would improve the system but, whatever the our computer equipment was equivalent to result, a review should be carried out so that what one would have expected at that time. reforms can be introduced before the Vast leaps and bounds have been made in Legislative Assembly 12433 13 June 1995 computer technology in the last five, six and are innovations that we, as modern, seven years. Software packages such as progressive members of Parliament need to Windows, WordPerfect for Windows and Word welcome. That is the new way of obtaining for Windows which did not exist during those information. We need to be leaders in the use years are now available, yet we still do not of that technology or, at the least, we need to have those software programs. I do not be at the same level as the rest of society. believe it does us a service to compare our In the time remaining to me, I point out present resources with the resources that we that we tend to put too much store on had five or six years ago while everyone else perceptions—— keeps pace with technology. Time expired. I believe that the resources of this Parliament are generally falling behind what is Mr T. B. SULLIVAN (Chermside) available in the departments and in private (12.43 p.m.): I rise to support the enterprise. That is something of which Appropriation (Parliament) Bill and the members need to be aware. I know that we Appropriation Bill 1995. I will restrict my will be receiving new computer equipment in comments to the expenditure in the the not-too-distant future. However, I believe Parliamentary Service Commission. It is easy that our Parliament should be a leader, not a to see that some of the largest outlay follower. increases have come in sections such as the library and committees, as well as the Mr Beattie: That's profound. computer upgrading of the electorate offices Mr SPRINGBORG: We need to be and the upgrading of PABX systems. That leaders—not followers—in information shows that this Government and the technology to be able to do our jobs properly. commission have put the emphasis on the Earlier in this debate, the honourable member knowledge and information that is available to for Hervey Bay made some very good points. people and on communication of that As he said, all members of Parliament are information. That is an important element of finding it more and more difficult to do their job our work and it allows backbenchers and because of the ever-increasing workload. Opposition members the ability to have access Many people have access to a word to material, to do proper research and to make processor, which makes it easy for them to the Government more open to the people. write letters to their member of Parliament. We That is something that the former Government are living in a more accountable society, and would never have done. It is something that with that accountability comes extra demands the former Government specifically tried to in the form of paperwork. We, the 89 stop. legislators leading Queensland, need to be up This morning, when Mr Casey spoke, it to speed with the provisions contained in the came to mind that he had been banished to a legislation before us. We need adequate building half-way down George Street because resources to enable us to carry out the he dared to use the Parliamentary Library too research necessary to fulfil our role. I am not much. Actions such as those that happened convinced that we are able to do that, under Joh do not happen under this because we are being snowed under by our Government and will not happen. Hopefully, workloads. We do not have the resources and, they would not happen under any other therefore, we are being more reactive than Government. pro-active. It all comes back to members of the Government back bench and members of Other efficiencies have been brought the Opposition having adequate resources to about through enterprise bargaining to make enable them to do their job. existing work practices more efficient. In Catering and Hansard, significant decreases in Mr Vaughan: Where do you draw the expenditure have occurred of 35 per cent and line? 24 per cent respectively. Negotiations are Mr SPRINGBORG: The line is drawn by continuing between the PSC and the examining the standard of technology that Australian Services Union with respect to the exists in private industry and in other electorate officers and their award. I hope that departments. I am talking about being every member supports his or her electorate resourced and staffed adequately to be able officer, because we must have a satisfactory to do one's job. outcome to those negotiations. The electorate The Honourable the Leader of the House officers not only give us as members great stated that, in the electorate of Chatsworth, support but also they are the point of contact they talk of little else but Hansard on CD-ROM. between so many people in the electorate and Hansard on CD-ROM, modems and Internet the Parliament. It is essential that the 13 June 1995 12434 Legislative Assembly electorate officers are properly resourced and shackle us with petty requirements that properly compensated for their work. prevent us from carrying out our jobs. We I welcome also the expenditure on must be properly resourced and we must be Parliament House and the stone restoration prepared to say to the people that these are and other maintenance programs. When I the resources that we need, not for our own have accompanied school children on a tour purposes but to enable us to carry out our job through Parliament House, I have been asked of serving our constituents in modern times. whether the expenditure on upgrading and Time expired. renovating this building was worth while. Mr LINGARD (Beaudesert—Deputy Although I disagreed with the philosophy and Leader of the Opposition) (12.49 p.m.): I am actions of Joh Bjelke-Petersen in almost every always reluctant to join this debate. However, respect, I think his decision to renovate this once again, I express my opinion that the building and build the Parliamentary Annexe Parliamentary Service Commission should not was the correct decision for a number of exist. I hope that I remain in this Parliament reasons. The annexe helped to provide long enough to see it abolished. relatively modern accommodation and facilities to help members carry out their duties to the Mr Mackenroth: You won't support people during the latter half of this century. If abolishing it, though. this building is seen just as a workplace, where Mr LINGARD: I say to the member who members come for 60 days, then the money continues to interject that as Leader of the was not well spent. But if the building House he has every right to stand and move represents our history, our democracy, our that the Parliamentary Service Commission be whole form of Government, and is a place that abolished. The Speaker has already stated will remain open to the public and is visited that, and I have stated that. more and more often not only by school children but also by adults, the money was Mr Mackenroth: You said you won't support the motion. well spent, and I agree with its expenditure. Mr Livingstone: There could have Mr LINGARD: I have said that I will been another two lifts, mind you. second the motion, but the Leader of the House has to have the courage to stand up Mr T. B. SULLIVAN: Yes, there could and say, "I move that the Parliamentary have been another two lifts. Service Commission be abolished." The expenditure by the Education and Mr Mackenroth: Can you guarantee Protocol Office is also significantly high, and I the Opposition will support it? approve of that. Often one of our constituents is going overseas, for example on an Mr LINGARD: Does the member want exchange scholarship, and it would be to stand now—— appropriate if we were able to give or lend to Mr Mackenroth: No, you can't. that person materials about our Government, Mr LINGARD:—because I will support our State and our country in general that they that motion? He does not have the courage to could take to their host family or overseas do it. organisation. I hope that the Parliamentary Service Commission, through the Education Mr Mackenroth: I'll find 54 votes; how and Protocol Office, could examine that. many can you find? The facilities and services that are Mr LINGARD: I am asking the member provided must be appropriate for us to do our to stand up and say what I just asked him to job. It is very easy for pollie-bashing to occur, say. Clearly, as the Leader of the House, he and it does occur, but the allowances for has every right to do that. The Speaker of the travel, food and accommodation must be House agrees, and certainly I agree. reasonable. This especially applies to our I say to honourable members that if the country members, who sit mostly on the Parliamentary Service Commission is to Opposition benches. Because they have large continue that means that the Speaker is not areas to serve and large distances to travel to being allowed to fulfil his true role. The King come to Parliament, it is essential for them to used to go into the community to discuss have appropriate food, accommodation and matters in council and when he was tired of support services. We, as MLAs, must be that—in the tenth and eleventh centuries—he prepared to explain and defend the appointed a person to conduct those councils. expenditure that enables us to carry out our That person was a truly impartial person, a duties. I agree that we must have person whose position was eventually to accountability procedures, but they must not become that of the Speaker, a person whose Legislative Assembly 12435 13 June 1995 position was much higher than that of the believe someone should take care of and, at Premier and should be No. 2 to the King or his this stage, no-one is taking care of them. representative. However, we as a Parliament Even just for that reason, the impartiality have resorted to making our Speaker the of the Speaker should be returned to this Chairman of the Parliamentary Service House. Many members have talked about Commission and to making our Clerk of the whether the Speaker should be the prime Parliament the secretary of the Parliamentary person. Clearly, he should be the prime Service Commission. What a most ridiculous person; he should be the departmental role for both of those people! There is no way head—not given untold amounts of money, that both of those people can act impartially in but certainly enough money to ensure that a those roles. member can go to him, speak privately with In some things that have happened, and him and possibly have something done. are happening, around this place, I see that I also remember the Parliamentary impartiality not being exercised. An example is Service Commission recommending that the position in which the cleaners find airconditioning be turned off in rooms for the themselves. Many times, members, either in special reason that it was supposed to save their rooms or down in the car park, see money. I have not seen an account that problems. But whom do they, as members of proves that this airconditioning procedure has Parliament, approach in this Parliament when saved money. they see something that, for weeks, has been occurring over and over in this precinct? There Time expired. was always a person to whom members went Mr D'ARCY (Woodridge) (12.54 p.m.): It and said, "We believe something in car park gives me great pleasure to speak to the No. 2 should be cleaned up", or "We do not Estimates of the Parliamentary Service agree with that", or "We have seen something Commission. I notice that the member for in our bedrooms that has not been cleaned up Beaudesert is still living in the past. He is still for quite a while." Many members see things talking about the King and what happened in occurring, but they do not know to whom to go the Parliament in the past. to complain. That is what has happened in this We have introduced the Estimates Parliament. committee system which, over the last two In relation to the questionnaire that was years, has come under a great deal of circulated—and I have seen a note to say that scrutiny. However, the Estimates committees not all of those questionnaires have been have worked and, from my point of view, I answered—I remember answering an original have found it interesting to note how questionnaire when it was circulated. I also dramatically they have improved over that remember that, within a few weeks, I was period. The Estimates committee process has approached by a person in this Parliament been a tremendous learning experience for all who said to me, "Mr Lingard, why did you say members of Parliament. It has certainly taken that on your questionnaire?" I say to those away the dreary Estimates debate that we people who are sending these out that there is used to hear under the old system. no way in the wide world that will I answer Electorate offices have come under a fair another questionnaire. If the answers to such bit of scrutiny. Technology has changed questionnaires are going to go straight back to dramatically the operations of electorate those people about whom the complaint is offices. I can remember Charlie Porter, when made then there is no way in the world he was the member for Toowong, saying that members of Parliament will answer any more nothing ever happened in his electorate office. questionnaires. I do not think that he ever got anyone to visit Members of Parliament need a personal him. However, that is not the case today, and contact to the Speaker—a direct contact to an it is certainly not the case in Labor electorates. impartial Speaker. At this stage, that is not Although members receive adequate funds for occurring. I say to Mr Speaker and the equipment and items like that for their Parliamentary Service Commission that, most electorate offices, I still believe that members definitely, the standards of cleanliness in this should be given an allowance so that they can place have dropped and they have been employ extra staff, or at least extra labour in doing so for quite a while. The standard of their electorate offices at certain times. cleanliness in the car park is absolutely The Hansard staff do an excellent job in disgraceful. The standard of cleanliness in the the Parliament. They are used also for lifts is absolutely disgraceful. Many things are parliamentary committees, such as the happening in the accommodation rooms that I Parliamentary Public Works Committee and 13 June 1995 12436 Legislative Assembly the Parliamentary Public Accounts Committee. the community to understand the activities, I do not think that it has been recognised that decisions and debates of this House. such committees use Hansard for their public I notice that the committee has hearings. The Hansard service is a useful tool, commented on the Estimates process, and I and the Hansard staff do an excellent job. feel sure that those comments will be taken The Parliamentary Library is probably one into account before the next Estimates of the most avant-garde libraries in process. I congratulate the committee on its Queensland. During all of the time that I have work. For my part, the Estimates committees been a member of Parliament, Nick have enhanced the accountability process and Bannenberg has been employed as a librarian have raised awareness of the responsibility of and then later as the Chief Librarian, and he the Parliamentary Service Commission in has certainly led the process of much of the relation to this process. changethat has occurred in the library. In the brief time I have left, I will comment Mr SPEAKER (12.56 p.m.): I thank all on what some of the members said in their members for their contributions to the scrutiny contributions. The member for Beaudesert of the Estimates for the Legislative Assembly. suggested that the PSC should be abolished. Over the past year, the Parliamentary Service I also believe that it should be, because I think Commission has undergone a number of that it detracts from the authority of the administrative reforms which have been aimed Speaker. In many ways, the PSC is a board, at improving its effectiveness and efficiency. but it really does not behave like a board. There are six politicians as well as the Speaker Recently, a survey was undertaken to on that board. When people cannot go to a assess the members' level of satisfaction with board meeting and take on the functions and the services provided by the Parliamentary responsibility as members of that board, there Service Commission. The results of that survey is something wrong. I support the member for indicated a high degree of satisfaction. Those Beaudesert quite wholeheartedly in his few areas in which improvements are needed, suggestion. Although the legislation to set up such as security, will be addressed in the next the Parliamentary Service Commission was couple of months. Shortly, I will receive a introduced by the previous National Party report from the consultants who have reviewed Government, I believe that we need to adopt the six subprograms and I am confident that a bipartisan approach in this matter. If Mr when their recommendations are taken on Lingard suggested to the Leader of the House board and the enterprise bargaining that we should abolish the PSC, I would join agreement is entered into, we will see an with him. Although the member for overall improvement in both the quality and Beaudesert and I have not agreed on a lot of the range of services provided to members. things, I agree with him wholeheartedly when In relation to the issues addressed by the he says that the PSC detracts from the status Estimates committee, the PSC is keen to of the office of Speaker. In doing so, to some secure a revenue retention agreement for the degree it diminishes the independence and parliamentary gift shop, and we are confident authority of the office of Speaker. So I am that this will be negotiated soon. All revenue hopeful that the member for Beaudesert can generated from sales in the shop will be used convince his Opposition colleagues to accept for the production of educational materials for what the Leader of the House said. If we could school children visiting Parliament House. adopt a bipartisan approach, it is time that we looked at the abolition of the PSC. I think that Information and technology will continue some money would be saved. It would still to play a significant part in the way in which allow people to have access to the Speaker, services will be provided in the future. It will not but it would be done in the old way, and in the only improve the timeliness of the provision of proper way—on an informal basis. information but it will also enable the information to be provided in a number of The member for Indooroopilly raised a different formats. We will also be moving to number of areas that require maintenance. improve the range of information that will For example, in regard to the lifts, the most assist members in their electorates and in their recent assessment I have received of the cost committee work. of installing new lifts is something like $3m. The member referred to the number of I am pleased to see that the committee security staff being decreased. It certainly was has drawn attention to the significant savings decreased from 10 staff per shift to 8. So we that have been achieved in the production of have actually saved on the number of security Hansard. The committee has also recognised staff members in that regard. The member that Hansard is an essential tool in assisting also asked for additional electorate office staff. Legislative Assembly 12437 13 June 1995

He is really talking in terms of a few more Estimates committee process. This year's million dollars—a substantial amount of documentation was much more informative money—being made available to the and user friendly than that available in 1994, Parliament to do that. Over the last five years, and we congratulate the Government on the budget for the Parliament has increased preparing that level of documentation. by only 16 per cent in gross terms. If members In referring to the Estimates of the of the public think that we are being Premier's Department and, in particular, the extravagant, they are wrong. In fact, in the issue of women—it was heartening to hear of area of discretionary expenditure, we have the progress being made by the Women's decreased the budget for the Parliament. We Policy Unit of the Premier's Department and have cut back in a large number of areas. In about the fact that a further significant number many ways, we have behaved responsibly, of women have been appointed to senior and we ought to be allowed—as the new positions on boards and trusts in the public appropriation process allows us—to do some service in this State. The committee was also of these things. However, I am not sure about impressed with the Trade and Investment the lifts. It is a very serious problem. I Development Division's continued strong understand what the member has said. performance in assisting to gain strong growth The member for Callide, the member for in export markets to Japan, Korea, Hong Kong Mundingburra and others were very pleased and Indonesia, and with the Coordinator- with the job that the Education Office is doing. General's role in developing major projects, I am pleased that the member for Callide such as the Carpentaria-Mount Isa Mineral acknowledged the job that the Education Province, the Cape York Peninsula Land Use Office is doing. Other members referred to the Study, continuing developments at South resourcing of Parliament. I agree with the Bank and the natural gas supply from south- member for Warwick, who said that Parliament west Queensland gas fields. The creation of should be the leader in the technology the Stress Policy Unit is a significant decision process. We should make sure that we to address a rapidly emerging problem in the provide the technology and resources public sector. That is something that the necessary for members to do their jobs. I committee applauds. assure members that, despite the library being The committee recognises the strong one of the six subprograms being performance of Treasury, which is the most investigated, we will always continue to have effective in Australia. We particularly applaud more resources being provided, because it is the State's strong financial position with the most vital aspect of this institution. respect to negative net debt, the creation of Time expired. the Crimes Statistics Unit, the assistance of Report adopted. the local authorities to upgrade sewage treatments plants, the building up of funds in Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.30 p.m. QIFF in anticipation of it being used as the funding vehicle for a very long list of Report No. 2 impressive public projects, and the strong performances of QIDC, QTC, QIC and The CHAIRMAN: Order! The question Suncorp, with effective monitoring through the is— Government's corporatisation policies. Our "That report No. 2 of Estimates committee's review demonstrates that the Committee A be adopted." public can have great confidence in Mr BARTON (Waterford) (2.30 p.m.): I Queensland maintaining a strong financial support Report No. 2 of Estimates Committee position and significant growth for the A. This year, 1995, saw this committee again foreseeable future. accept the very onerous task of examining the The committee was pleased to see the Estimates for the Office of the Governor, the focus of support for people by the Department Queensland Audit Office, the Parliamentary of Housing, Local Government and Planning Commissioner for Administrative and the Office of Rural Communities. An Investigations, the Department of the Premier, additional 10,000 people will be assisted with Economic and Trade Development, Treasury public housing in 1995-96. Some 500 places and the Department of Housing, Local will be available for women escaping domestic Government and Planning and the Office of violence. There will be an innovative Rural Communities in addition to the purchasing scheme of boarding houses in Estimates for the Parliament itself. Again, we Cairns, Townsville and inner-city Brisbane. drew on experience and revisited many of the There will be strong capital grants to local issues examined last year during the authorities and an assurance that the 13 June 1995 12438 Legislative Assembly implementation of the national competition documents with those that have preceded policy, the Hilmer report, will not disadvantage them. Again, the Opposition calls on the councils nor require them to increase rates Government to allow for a full and and charges. The strong support for rural comprehensive review of the Estimates communities provided by the Office of Rural committee process. That review should be Communities is also applauded. We applaud conducted by the Parliament itself. We believe the effective planning efforts of this that to be an essential element in this department in south-east Queensland, far- Parliament's ongoing efforts to provide the sort north Queensland and rural communities. of accountability and scrutiny that the people Additionally, I thank all members of of Queensland quite rightly expect. Estimates Committee A for their hard work and It is an indictment on this Government cooperative manner. Despite differences of that the review of last year's Estimates opinion on a number of issues of substance, committee process was not carried out by the they were able to put political issues aside and Parliament itself but by the Premier's and the look at what the process is about. That was Government's own Office of the Cabinet. No very different from the predictions by the doubt this was a review designed to make the media in the days leading up to the public Estimates committee process more hearing of major differences and even Government friendly. There were certainly very possible walkouts. As well as thanking strong indications last year, and there were Government members of the committee, I recommendations from Estimates committees, congratulate Opposition members of the that the Parliament itself should have reviewed committee for the fair way in which they that process. But what did we see in the run- conducted themselves in the hearings. up to an election? We saw not only the Although not bringing down a dissenting Budget format changed but also the Office of report, non-Government members have the Cabinet undertaking what is the legitimate attached a Reservations statement to Report responsibility of the Parliament. No doubt this No. 2. I cannot agree with it and find no merit was a review facilitated by the Office of the in any of the issues raised in that Reservations Cabinet according to the edict of the Premier. statement. I understand that other members That is in spite of the fact that on three of the committee may make further detailed separate occasions the Opposition placed comment about that. Report No. 2 before the House a notice of motion which recommends also that the proposed would have facilitated an independent review expenditure be agreed to. Again, I am of the Estimates committees process. That is confident that this recommendation will be what should have occurred, and the carried unanimously by the committee, and I Opposition again calls on the Premier to allow support it. this process to occur immediately following the Mr BORBIDGE (Surfers Paradise— processing of this Budget. Leader of the Opposition) (2.36 p.m.): In The examination of the Estimates of the speaking to Report No. 2 of Estimates Department of the Premier, Economic and Committee A, I take the opportunity to place Trade Development again focused on the role on the record the Opposition's continued of two specific creations of the "Gloss" support for the Estimates committee process. I Government, namely, the Office of the join with the chairman of the committee in Cabinet and the Public Sector Management saying that with the goodwill of members on Commission. It was the view of non- both sides of the process can provide an Government members that both of those effective check on Government spending. As bodies provide questionable value to the the member who preceded me mentioned, Queensland taxpayer. For example, the Opposition members have issued a PSMC has been the lead agency in Reservations statement. I do not want to go implementing the "Gloss" Government's public into it in detail, but there are a couple of sector reforms, which have destroyed the matters that I will raise. morale of a once-proud public sector. Lead One matter relates to comments made by agencies such as Queensland Health, the the Treasurer about the changed format again Education Department, the Police Service, this year with respect to the preparation of the Emergency Services and Corrective Services Budget documents and the indication that to have all been visited on a number of make comparisons with last year would be occasions by the PSMC, and all with the same quite difficult. Clearly, the work and sorry result. I ask honourable members a effectiveness of the Estimates committee is simple question: are those agencies impacted upon if it is not in a position to performing better now in terms of primary accurately compare this year's Budget service delivery than they were in 1989? Legislative Assembly 12439 13 June 1995

De Lacy: Yes! sustainable management strategy for the Mr BORBIDGE: The answer from the southern Moreton Bay islands. For too long, majority of Queenslanders—not from the the problems of the residents of Russell Treasurer—is: no. By independent assessment, Island, Karragarra Island, Lamb Island and the Government has created the most Macleay Island have been put into the too- complex machinery of Government that exists hard basket. Everyone would remember the anywhere in the Westminster world. And then scandalous land deals initiated in about we have the Office of the Cabinet—or the 1973—condoned, I might add, by the previous "elite public service", as it is known in the Government. public sector—which continues to grow. The control of Moreton Bay islands was Of course, much was made of the handed over to the Redland Shire Council in revelation of the salary downgrading of the 1975. The Redland Shire Council—which was former Director-General of the Office of the dominated by National Party people—really Cabinet. Without going over that well-worn did nothing to help those people on the bay issue again, I point out that this incident has islands. However, the people of the bay once again reinforced the perception in the islands are very pleased with the initiative put public sector that there is one rule for one forward by the Minister for Local Government. group of Queensland public servants and Funding has been allocated for two major another for Labor mates. The coalition has elements, including the preparation of the been strongly critical of the PSMC and the drainage problem mapping and survey study, Office of the Cabinet. They are two of the which is to be undertaken in conjunction with great failings of this Government. They have the Redland Shire Council, to accurately not resulted in improving the standard of define the extent of drainage problem lands. public service. Under a coalition Government, An amount of $150,000 has been set aside they would go. for that project. In addition, the planning strategy to be put in place will identify the Time expired. extent to which the appropriate future use of Mr BUDD (Redlands) (2.41 p.m.): At the drainage problem areas is resolved. outset, I place on record my thanks and the Some people believe that the bay islands thanks of all members of the committee to could sustain a population of 60,000, but Darrell Martin, the research director, and David every person with whom I speak who resides Thannhauser, the senior research officer, for on the bay islands does not want that. Those their assistance before, during and after the people moved to those islands for the obvious Estimates committee hearings. I am sure that reason: the quieter lifestyle. They ask only for all members of the committee would agree basic services and that they not be living right that, without their assistance, we would have next door to their neighbours, as people do on had a much harder task. the mainland. Those residents moved to those In the brief time available to me, I want to islands for a bit of peace and tranquillity. With touch on a couple of issues. I turn first to the assistance from the Minister for Housing, Local Parliamentary Commissioner for Administrative Government and Planning, I am sure that that Investigations. The committee noted that, to will come to fruition. address the increase in the backlog of cases Mr Cooper: Have you got police officers to 1,546, two temporary officers will be over there? employed in the coming financial year. It is obvious from that backlog that people are Mr BUDD: We have police officers over using the service offered by the Ombudsman's there at the moment. office. I am aware that the Ombudsman pays Mrs Sheldon: They want a few more, I frequent visits to my electorate. I always believe. receive positive feedback from constituents on Mr BUDD: Did the member say that they the assistance and benefit offered by that want a few more? office. Mr Cooper: They're not on every island. I am confident that during this debate other speakers will mention the Premier's Mr BUDD: They are not on every island, Department and the Treasury Department. I but the Water Police are there now. A police want to comment in particular on the portfolio station is to be built at Redland Bay. The of the Minister for Housing, Local Government member should have seen that during his and Planning and Minister for Rural examination of the Estimates of the Minister Communities. The Portfolio Program for Police. The people on the bay islands are Statements mention a new initiative for the quite happy. preparation of an environmentally and socially Opposition members interjected. 13 June 1995 12440 Legislative Assembly

Mr Welford: They're using your time. large role in establishing. Queensland has a Mr BUDD: Members opposite are just rigged Estimates committee system. Each using my time; I will not take their interjections. committee has four Government members They know that the Government is and three Opposition members. undertaking positive measures on the bay Mr Mackenroth: Leader of the House. islands, and those measures are supported by Mrs SHELDON: From the way he the Minister for Police. carries on, I would think that Mr Mackenroth is As to the Reservations statement by the leader of nothing in particular. members of the Opposition—I said last year, As I said, each committee has four and I say again, that Opposition members Government members and three Opposition have a right to put in a Reservations members. Estimates Committee A had to statement. I respect that right, but let them get examine a huge number of Estimates, it right when they put in a Reservations including those of the Governor, the Auditor, statement. the Premier, the Parliamentary Service Mrs SHELDON (Caloundra—Leader of Commission—which runs this Parliament for all the Liberal Party) (2.46 p.m.): I rise to join the members, so Government members should debate on Report No. 2 of Estimates be just as interested in it as we are—the Committee A. I thank the staff who assisted Treasurer and the Department of Housing and our committee. They were very helpful and Local Government, all of which involve very professional. I believe that their efforts complicated issues—— were of great benefit. Mr Mackenroth: And Planning. I hold major concerns about the format of Mrs SHELDON: Not much planning the Estimates committees of this Parliament. comes from the Minister, so one need hardly When the question of whether to establish question that! All of those Estimates must be Estimates committees in this Parliament was examined within a week of the Budget being raised, I was a very strong supporter of the delivered in this Chamber. That does not allow concept, because I believe in questioning and time, particularly for Opposition members, to accountability. Unless a Government has thoroughly scrutinise those Estimates. I something to hide, it should also believe in venture to suggest that Government members those concepts. However, the format of our also would not have enough time, were they Estimates committees needs to be thoroughly not to be fed dorothy dixers from Ministers. If examined, reviewed and changed. we are to have a real Estimates committee The format of our Estimates committees process, let us have it rather than the sham should be modelled on those that operate in that currently operates. the Federal Senate. Those committees allow In addition, the base of articles and for questioning of bureaucrats by all members. research that is able to be reviewed must be Questions do not have to be channelled expanded. For example, with my shadow through the Minister, as they do under our portfolio—Treasury—every item has by and present process. That is a sanitising process at large been shifted off-Budget. I predict that, the very best, because the Minister will not flick next year, one will be able to read the to anyone else any issue that he thinks may in Treasury Estimates in three lines! One can any way be politically damaging to the only question what is on the dotted line. With Government; hence, the source of the real all our debt going off-Budget and with all the problem is not uncovered. It may be that a corporate entities going off-Budget, there will problem does not exist, but if members can not be much that anyone can question the question the public servants, who are the Treasurer about, and that is deliberate. That is people who by and large do all the work exactly why the Estimates committees have behind the scenes anyway—— been set up in that manner and the Treasurer Mr De Lacy: Do you see yourself as the has changed the parameters of the Budget. modern-day Bronwyn Bishop? Trying to compare apples with apples, as the Mrs SHELDON: No, I see myself as an Treasurer said, is next to impossible, because accountable member of Parliament—whereas the parameters of this Budget compared with the Treasurer and the Leader of the House, last year's Budget are very different indeed. If who prompted that interjection, do not want the Government is not trying to hide that. They do not want accountability; and that something, why does it persist with this sham is very evident through the sham of an of an Estimates committee process? Estimates committee process that this I am very concerned that a review be Parliament has, which the leader played a undertaken. It must be done by the Legislative Assembly 12441 13 June 1995

Parliament, not the Office of the Cabinet—the Government and Planning, at the end of the Executive arm of Government again leaning night Opposition members did not have on this Parliament; it must be done by enough questions to last the distance. That is members of this Parliament. When the not our problem; that is their problem. They question was asked of the Premier, he would really have to do a bit of work on their not guarantee that a review would be contributions to the Estimates before they can undertaken or that that was the form it would come in here and criticise. Nevertheless, take. The issue of accountability under this criticise they did. Opposition members also Labor Government is dead as a dodo, and have to make sure that they do not trivialise that is exactly the way Government members the process in the way in which they have want it to stay. They should not believe that been doing. For instance, the Deputy Leader they are fooling the general public, because of the Coalition, Mrs Sheldon, started asking they are not. The people know that Labor rode questions about foot-warmers. Frankly, that is in here saying, "We are accountable, white not the sort of thing that should be asked and pure" and that it has delivered absolutely during Estimates committees. nothing. If this Government has one degree of Ms Spence: Foot-warmers? commitment to openness and accountability, it will change the basis of the Estimates process Mr DAVIES: I am not joking; I am next year. Given that this Government will no serious. longer be in power after the next election, I Ms Spence: What's that got to do with give an undertaking that a coalition the Estimates? Government will make those changes. Mr DAVIES: It has very little to do with Time expired. the Estimates. Anyway, the Treasurer obliged and gave Mrs Sheldon an answer by the finish Mr DAVIES (Mundingburra) (2.51 p.m.): of the time allotted for discussion of his At the outset I want to say that even though I Estimates. Opposition members need to be do not agree with a lot of the contributions by more serious about the process; they need to members on the other side of the Chamber, I ask some good, deep, probing questions would like to thank members of the Opposition about what the Government is doing. Why do for their contributions to the process of they not put a bit of pressure on people such Estimates Committee A. Much of their as the Treasurer? I am pretty sure that he contributions has been very negative, and I will could handle it; he has been around for long say something about that shortly. I also put on enough. record my thanks to the Chair, Mr Barton, the member for Waterford, and the Deputy Chair, Opposition members also criticised public the member for Redlands. servants. I thought that the attack on one senior public servant who is standing for As I said earlier today, this is only the political office was particularly uncalled for. The second year of the Estimates committee Opposition seemed to suggest that because process, and I think that it is getting better and that public servant is standing for political will continue to get better. I also put on record office, he had to give everything away. That is my thanks to the research staff for the work plainly ludicrous. He has made quite a large that they have done in preparing for the sacrifice; he stood down from the position that Estimates committee. I think that this year, he held and is now employed in a much less being the second year of operation, they senior position. To use the Estimates found the whole process a lot easier. I also committee process for such a trenchant attack thank the people in the committees secretariat on that senior public servant shows the level of who helped in the preparation of the Opposition's commitment to Estimates documentation for the committee. committees. The media picked up on that, One aspect of the performance from and I do not think that that says a lot for the those opposite that I disliked was that in some media, either. cases—particularly during the discussion on Mrs Sheldon commented on the numbers the Estimates of the Minister for Housing, of each committee: four Government Local Government and Planning—Opposition members and three Opposition members. members simply ran out of questions. From That just stands to reason; there are more memory, that is the second time that that members on this side of the Chamber than happened. Time allocations are made for both the other side of the Chamber. Government members and Opposition Mr J. H. Sullivan: Back in the sixties, members, yet during the discussion of the there were committees with five Government Estimates of the Minister for Housing, Local and one Opposition. 13 June 1995 12442 Legislative Assembly

Mr DAVIES: In the unlikely event that funding and other matters pertaining to the the Opposition ever makes it back to this side Local Government portfolio—were not to be of the Chamber, it will be in the position of found in the Budget documents. having a membership of four to three. I am Mr Mackenroth: Hilmer has got nothing sure that we would not be complaining about to do with the Estimates of my department. that. That is parliamentary democracy in action. In the Fitzgerald report, in relation to Mrs McCAULEY: No, but it has a great the constitution of the PCJC Mr Fitzgerald said deal to do with the future of local government. that committees should reflect the balance of The Minister answered my questions, which the numbers in the Legislative Assembly. was good. Opposition members are clearly very Mr De Lacy: You haven't understood confused, because they refer to themselves what Estimates are about. on page 8 of the report as "non-Government Mrs McCAULEY: Yes, I have. I am members". Technically, they are Opposition telling the Treasurer that I could not find too members. Strictly speaking, in the many line items in the Budget papers. I did Westminster system we on this side of the not really want to go into how much money Chamber—excluding the Cabinet—are also was spent on advertising, what the advertising non-Government members. Those members was about, how many consultants were had better get their terminology right before engaged and who they were. I wanted to they come in here and start criticising the know details about the issues of real concern performance of the Treasurer and people such to local government. One of the biggest issues as Mr Mackenroth. of real concern to local government is capital Mr Mackenroth: I was deeply offended, works funding. I know that the Minister is going too. to make an announcement—probably when the election has been announced—of the Mr DAVIES: I noted that with interest. provision of $75m over eight years, or Time expired. whatever it is, for capital works. That will be a plum thrown to local government. The big Mrs McCAULEY (Callide) (2.56 p.m.): I items that affect local government could not sometimes think that I must have drawn the be discussed in this Estimates committee short straw, being on Estimates Committee A process because they were not in the Budget with the Premier and the Treasurer. papers. I share Mrs Sheldon's frustration in Mrs Woodgate: How do you think they that a lot of the issues about which she feel? wanted to ask important follow-up questions Mrs McCAULEY: I do not know how were not contained in the Budget papers, so they feel, and I really do not care. I found it therefore she could not ask them. very difficult to sit there and listen to the Before the luncheon recess, a superciliousness of the Premier and the Government member spoke about how much Treasurer. By the time we reached the better the Estimates committee process was Housing, Local Government and Planning this year and how much more knowledgeable portfolio, I was very relieved. It was nice to committee members were. The member said have Mr Mackenroth there to bring a bit of that last year we were rather naive. It seemed normality back to the process. I am being nice to me that last year Government members today; honourable members would not know were rather naive. After last year's Estimates, that an election is looming. they realised that there were certainly sectors Mr MACKENROTH: I rise to a point of in which they were vulnerable; so they very order. I object to that; it is doing me great carefully laundered their Budget statement this political damage. year and took out all of the items that could create hassles and headaches, so that they The CHAIRMAN: There is no point of could not be looked at and scrutinised. That order. was very clever of Government members, but I Mrs McCAULEY: References to local hope that they do not whinge when the same government in the Budget documents were thing happens to them when we change sides very few and far between. Apart from the again; it is extremely frustrating. Portfolio Program Statements, very little in the I have no complaint about my questioning remainder of the Budget papers dealt with of the Minister for Housing, Local Government local government. It seemed to me that the and Planning. I feel that he answered those most important issues about which I wanted to questions in good faith and answered a fairly ask questions—issues such as the Hilmer broad range of questions. I had no problems national competition policy, capital works at all with that. However, I certainly did have Legislative Assembly 12443 13 June 1995 problems when listening to the discussions on worth of export sales, with an additional other Estimates, especially those of the $162m under negotiation as at 30 June 1994. Premier and the Treasurer. There were so There is continued growth in Queensland many matters upon which members of the exports, particularly to markets in Japan, Opposition wanted to ask questions but they Korea, Hong Kong and Indonesia. It is could not because they were not part of the interesting to note that Queensland food Budget. So I do question the whole concept of products are being promoted by the TIDD as Estimates committees. well. It is extremely important that the money My idea of committees has not changed allocated to this particular division is spent since I gave a speech to the public service on wisely, and I think the results show that we are this matter a couple of years back, and I do getting value for money in that regard. not resile from one comment I made at that I turn to a subject very far removed from time. I was not very supportive of the that topic, that is, the Women's Policy Unit and committee system. For a committee system to its proposed expenditure of $1.2m in the work properly, it has to be entered into 1995-96 year. This amount raised a couple of wholeheartedly and in good faith by eyebrows at the committee hearings and the everybody. It seems that that has not effectiveness of the Women's Policy Unit was happened here. called into question. We were assured that the Mr Mackenroth: When you have public's level of contact with Women's Infolink people like your leader personally attacking was greater than ever before and that the unit people for 20 minutes, how can you played a successful role in coordinating expect—— International Women's Day events throughout Queensland. We were told of the increasing Mrs McCAULEY: I ask the member not number of women in senior positions in the to use up all my time. public service, in particular as members of I turn now to tree-clearing guidelines. The boards and trusts. I am sure that is of great one question that I would love to have interest to all women in the Parliament, indeed answered is: was a rural impact statement all women in Queensland, especially young attached to the tree-clearing guidelines when women coming up through the ranks on they went to Cabinet? Those tree-clearing community boards and so on who may want guidelines are causing a lot of angst in my to play a more active role in the higher area. There are groups starting up all over the reaches of public life. Again, I think that the place, which will cause the Government a lot money spent in that area is money well spent. of heartburn before the election is over. This is I was interested to note that several not the way to go, and a rural impact questions were asked by members of the statement would have immediately told the committee about the Crime Statistics Unit. It is Government that. If the Government had important that the Crime Statistics Unit is a requested a rural impact statement on tree- success so that accurate statistics are collated clearing guidelines, Cabinet would not have in an orderly and proper manner. During the given that clearing the nod—as we have been term of the previous Government, the veracity told by the Minister for Lands was the case. of statements relating to crime statistics was We would have saved ourselves a lot of questioned. The cost of the unit is about hassle. $305,000 for 1995-96 and it will employ six Mr NUNN (Hervey Bay) (3.02 p.m.): I was staff. It is to be hoped that as it is going to very remiss this morning in not thanking operate on a commercial basis, that unit will everybody concerned with the Estimates result in making policing and control of crime committee process who looked after us much more efficient. admirably. The departmental staff and others Estimates Committee A had the who sometimes answered questions on behalf advantage of working through a number of of the Minister looked after us very well. I departments, not the least of which was the reiterate that the whole process went much Department of Housing, Local Government more smoothly this year. and Planning. It was interesting to note that I want to mention a few things that are of the department's emphasis has shifted to vital concern to me and in which it is well rental housing. Staff have been moved about known that I take a great interest. The first of and priorities have changed. This indicates those is the Trade and Investment that the Government rightly puts emphasis on Development Division. The committee took the provision of low-cost rental note that a November 1994 survey showed accommodation for the people of that the Trade and Investment Development Queensland. Not only are we providing more Division had assisted in achieving about $88m of this accommodation but also it is of a better 13 June 1995 12444 Legislative Assembly quality and people are now inclined to be Public Accounts Committee to ask questions proud of where they live. There is no longer on their own behalf or to delve into a matter of any stigma attached to living in public housing, how a particular amount of money was spent. and that is something of which this The process is different in that case. Government can be justly proud. It is again an This Committee should also be aware area where money was well spent. that, as the Government is corporatising more An amount of $8.2m is proposed to be and more of its activities, it is going off-Budget spent in 1995-96 on securing accommodation and therefore that expenditure will not be for people leaving institutions. This is eligible to be debated in the normal Estimates important, as there has been a change in process. That is a weakness. This Committee philosophy with regard to people leaving is really debating the guesstimates of the institutions. department and that should be recognised. Time expired. Some of the points raised really need to Mr FITZGERALD (Lockyer) (3.07 p.m.): be emphasised. For instance, for Minister for In joining the debate on the report of Housing, Local Government and Planning—— Estimates Committee A, I point out that this is Mr Mackenroth: And Rural only a five-minute grab of the news in brief, if I Communities. could call it that. This process whereby Mr FITZGERALD: And Rural members have the right to speak for five Communities now. The Rural Communities minutes on the Estimates does not provide aspect of the Minister's portfolio was enough time for members to develop an particularly interesting, especially with regard to argument about a major issue but to make the Rural Communities Water Subsidy only brief comments about what happened Scheme. The expenditure under that scheme during the committee hearings. was tabled in the Minister's answer to The Estimates being debated were questions. I notice that two of the shires in my presented in the Budget and sent off to the electorate, Boonah and Laidley, received committees for deliberation. We have to funds last year from that particular accept in this place that those Estimates are scheme—$183,000 to Boonah and $125,000 estimates, although I would rather call them to Laidley. guesstimates because quite often Boonah could be in awful strife in the Government income is not determined short term because of the drought. If it does accurately. We know this happens from one not rain and the Moogerah Dam does not get year to the next. For instance, since time some water within the year, the people of immemorial stamp duty receipts might be well Boonah are going to be in dire straits. They up or well down, or the gambling tax may are in serious trouble now, but they will have come in at a little more than estimated. Money enormous problems if they do not get water in is expended by the Government and it is that dam within the next 12 months. It is reined in according to the amount of revenue possible that it will not get any more water, that comes into the Government coffers. because it will take a lot of heavy rain to fill Mr McElligott: You reckon they're only those streams as the ground absorbs a great estimates. deal of the water. Mr FITZGERALD: Yes, they are only The other area concerning me is that estimates. If we debate the Estimates and not there is a demand for water to be supplied to how the money was spent in the previous all communities. For instance, the people of year, we can find some serious shortcomings Withcott settled in an area with underground with regard to the accountability process of this water believing they had an ideal place to live place. We have a Public Accounts Committee quite close to Toowoomba but where the rates and a Public Works Committee which are were quite a bit cheaper. Withcott is in the supposed to look after those matters. Gatton Shire. Now there is an expectation and Ms Spence: And do so very well. a demand that they have a reticulated water supply. Because the underground water has Mr FITZGERALD: As the member become polluted from their septic systems, I says, they do so very well. However, we do not can understand that. Consequently, we are go through the same process of public starting to have a health problem. What will be hearings. I know members have a right to needed in the future is a fairly large attend those meetings, but they have to be Government subsidy to enable the Gatton granted leave to ask questions. I do not know Shire Council to extend a pipeline up to whether any members have had leave to Grantham, on to Helidon and up to Withcott to attend a Public Works Committee hearing or a service that area. As everyone else has water, Legislative Assembly 12445 13 June 1995 that expectation has been created. During the equivalent department in New South droughts they hear of people getting water Wales—the Liberal/National Party carted to the towns which have a reticulated Government—and two other persons. The water supply. This is at an enormous expense unanimous recommendation was to appoint to the taxpayer, but it has to be done. A Mr Rudd. Secondly, after Mr Rudd was community has to be kept going—— endorsed as a party candidate for the next Mr Mackenroth: How big is the town? Federal election he indicated that he would resign as Director-General of the Office of the Mr FITZGERALD: Withcott has about Cabinet despite the fact that there was no real 1,000 people in the area. There are fewer requirement whatsoever for him to do so. He people in the town itself. It is going to be did so voluntarily because he wished to avoid expensive to get a water supply to Withcott any perception of a conflict of interest and did because it is uphill all the way from Gatton, but so at significant cost to himself both financially Helidon and Grantham definitely need the and in terms of his general status and water. Grantham is in strife now because the conditions. Thirdly, Mr Rudd was redeployed to underground water is fast disappearing. an SES3 position with responsibility for inter- Time expired. Governmental relations, something that is Hon. W. K. GOSS (Logan—Premier entirely consistent with his impressive and Minister for Economic and Trade qualifications. Fourthly, Mr Rudd was deployed Development) (3.12 p.m.): I wish to make a in conformity with the mobility provisions few points on the committee's report in relation available under the SES arrangements in the to my Estimates. The first point is in relation to public service SES legislation. stress claims. Whilst it is claimed by some In relation to the comments made by non- Opposition members that the PSMC is the Government members about six separate major cause of public service stress, it should units in the Office of the Cabinet, let me make be noted that this claim is demonstrably the point that these are specialist units dealing incorrect. Figures from the non-Government with specialist areas of responsibility and sector show exactly the same trend as the officers who have relevant expertise in those public sector. The other point that should be policy areas have been recruited to those made is that the Government has moved to units. I can say from personal experience and correct a factor which significantly contributed from my observations of similar agencies to the growth in claims by an amendment to elsewhere, such as New South Wales, that it is the legislation to ensure that the a very effective policy coordination mechanism compensation is available only where the because, for myself in particular as Chair of workplace is a significant factor in the illness or Cabinet, I am able to get expert briefing about injury. Furthermore, an occupational stress unit the full range of policy areas. It also provides a has been established within the PSMC to clear point of contact for other agencies when improve the general situation. dealing with the office. In relation to PSMC The next point I want to mention is in appeals, let me make this point. Of the 50 relation to the PSMC's performance. The appeals listed as outstanding at the time of objective is to achieve effectiveness, the Estimates committee, 23 were linked to efficiency, economy and impartiality in the appointment appeals lodged by just three management of the public sector. PSMC appellants. These appeals have now been officers are in fact professional managers. If determined, as have all but three of the the Opposition proposes to abolish the remaining appeals. commission, it does not support these In relation to tourist infrastructure and contemporary management strategies. beds facilitated by the Office of the Co- Indeed, by its proposed intention to create ordinator General, that office is currently more departments, the Opposition would working on a range of projects which have the create more bureaucracy. potential to contribute significantly towards the The next point I want to touch on relates development of tourism in Queensland. I cite to reservations expressed about the position as examples the achievement in respect of of the senior public servant, Mr Rudd, and to Green Island and the work it is doing in make four brief points. Firstly, Mr Rudd was relation to the Airlie Beach Hotel. But at the appointed to the position of Director-General end of the day it comes down to the private of the Cabinet Office after the position was sector; the office can only facilitate. nationally advertised and a selection The last point I want to stress is the committee formed comprising the former head question of the review of process. The of the Premier's Department under the Estimates committee system is working well. It previous Government, the Director-General of has worked much better this year than last 13 June 1995 12446 Legislative Assembly year but it still requires experience and misused, abused and poorly understood by refinement in its early stages of members of the Opposition. Sure, they are a implementation. As I said at the hearing, I farce. The most telling question that was asked the Office of the Cabinet to seek the asked of me by the Leader of the Liberal Party views of departments on the process and its and shadow Treasurer was whether or not outcomes. That was a very limited exercise. As senior executive members of Treasury were to a more substantial review, that is a matter getting foot massagers. I thought Mrs Sheldon for the Parliament. That is a quite separate was cracking a joke. I thought she had a exercise and a quite separate decision, one sense of humour but, no, she was deadly that is exclusively within the province of the serious— Parliament. That review by the commission Mr FitzGerald: Did you see the film The was a very narrow exercise and not in Red Lantern? substitution for anything the Parliament may wish to do in the future. Mr De LACY: No, I did not. She asked a deadly serious question about these—as it Hon. K. E. De LACY (Cairns— turns out, I had to find out about it— Treasurer) (3.17 p.m.): The Leader of the ergonomic foot rests for the typists. This is Liberal Party said that the Estimates something that she wasted the time of the committee was largely a farce. It is not often Estimates committee asking questions about. that I agree with the Leader of the Liberal It is just quite extraordinary. And then to come Party but sometimes I thought it was a bit in here and say that it is farce! If that is the farcical, too, not because there is anything intellectual strength that the honourable wrong with the process but because of the member can bring to the whole process, of standard of the questions and the intellectual course it is a farce. poverty that was displayed by the Opposition—even a fundamental lack of The other questions she asked at length understanding of what an Estimates were to do with the Government Statisticians committee process is about. Estimates Office, offensive questions that she asked and committees are about exactly that, examining continued to ask and then continued to try to the expenditure priorities, the expenditure peddle in the media—and other people have plans, of the Government over the next year followed it up since—that the Government and comparing them with the expenditure for Statisticians Office would be involved in last year. political polling. It is just offensive to the Government Statisticians Office and offensive The member for Callide asked questions to me. But it proves once again what about tree clearing. How is tree clearing honourable members opposite do; they judge anything to do with examining Estimates. everybody else by their own grubby standards. People just do not understand what it is about. It is something we would never do, but If we want to have a debate about the obviously it must be in the minds of expenditure for 1994-95, later on this year I will honourable members opposite otherwise they be tabling in Parliament the annual financial would not be asking the question. They made statement which will outline all of our end of something about the fact that I had changed the year expenditure in great detail. This the Budget process and, therefore, one year Government is more accountable than any could not be compared with another. Mr other Government in Australia. We will have a Borbidge extrapolated from that, as though two, three, or four day debate when everybody that related to every department. I state again has an opportunity to contribute. Members that the only change this year was the fact opposite never will. They get up and talk about that Treasury had had a strategic review which it; they get up and score points about every resulted in a new program structure. We went other thing except what the debate is to great lengths to give last year's expenditure supposed to be about. on the same program structure, so the If honourable members opposite want to committee members could compare them. I have a better debate about the financial simply said that, if they go back any further statement, perhaps we ought to change the than that, it does not make sense because way that debate is done. But whichever way the programs had been restructured. It was as we change the debate, honourable members simple as that. There was nothing fiendish— opposite will inevitably find that people will use nothing hidden—in what we were doing. it as a point-scoring exercise and not an I will make a final comment about off- information seeking exercise. It is not the Budget items. Nothing is going off-Budget. process that is wrong, it is not the way in which Certainly, we have been doing away with trust the Estimates committee process is designed funds and bringing them back onto Budget so that is not perfect, it is the fact that it is Legislative Assembly 12447 13 June 1995 that all honourable members can see those Reservations leads people to believe that figures. I have never seen a more there has been a massive increase. If comprehensive, accountable set of Budget honourable members consider the real papers than these here. I am surprised and situation, they will find that the rental disappointed that the Opposition would say cooperatives are required to provide financial that we are not being accountable. No other statements that are accessible through public State Government in Australia presents its information. It is not as if anything is secret; Budget in such a detailed, accountable way as that information is available to members if they we do in Queensland. wish to access it. Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH Another matter raised by Mrs McCauley, (Chatsworth—Minister for Housing, Local which has been partly answered by Mr De Government and Planning and Minister for Lacy, relates to the Estimates committee Rural Communities) (3.22 p.m.): I will make a process and the Ministers not being able to couple of points in relation to the Statement of answer particular questions. Reforms resulting Reservations by minority members of the from the Hilmer report are not an estimate of committee. I read it with great amusement. my department and are not something that Under the Housing section, the Statement of one is able to raise in the full debate, even Reservations by Minority states— though some questions were asked and "As a result of time constraints facing answers were given. There is no money the Committee, a number of matters allocated within my department for any of the require further and closer scrutiny." Hilmer report reforms. That is not a question that can be asked in the Estimates committee The committee ran out of questions 10 hearings. minutes before the time had expired, so I do not know how a minority of members could The member for Lockyer raised the matter possibly believe that any time constraints were of water in a couple of towns within his placed on them. The shadow Minister for electorate. The local government in his area Housing, has he calls himself, is not in the would be aware of the Accelerated Rural Chamber today to talk about this matter. The Communities Water Supply and Sewerage local newspaper in my electorate, the South- Scheme, under which towns with a population East Advertiser, which came out the day after less than 1,500 are able to apply for funding. the Estimates committee hearings, listed a The Government allocates funding after it series of questions which he had told the assesses the costs necessary to provide water newspaper he was going to ask me; yet the or sewerage to a town, how much the local night previous at the hearings he failed to ask authority is charging for water or sewerage even one of those questions. There is not rates and ensures that it charges the average much sense in complaining about the rate that is being charged in Queensland. hearings of Estimates committees and the Funding is then provided on that basis. The way that the committees operate if members funding can be up to 90 per cent or even such as the member for Aspley do not even greater of the amount that is required to take the opportunity that exists for them to ask provide the system or scheme that is questions of Ministers, to obtain answers, necessary. That relates to one part of the which I was happy to provide to him, and then scheme. grab hold of information that is given and twist In relation to towns running out of water, a it around, as the members have in the scheme is available that provides for cartage Statement of Reservations by Minority, in of water or providing temporary measures to which they state— ensure that no town will be without water. "An issue of concern to non- Although they might run out of water, they will Government Members is the financial not be without water as a result of the drought. accountability of the co-operative housing Mr FitzGerald: Is that normal tank program. With a 1000% increase in the water or reticulated water? allocation of public funds in this area, we believe the audited financial reports Mr MACKENROTH: The water would should be made public." be taken to a town and put into tanks and reticulated through the system. It would That leads the reader to believe that a depend on the town and how we could make massive increase has occurred. I told the that water available to it. In some areas in the committee that, last year, we had held back member's electorate, the Government has some funding while we put in place greater provided money for the piping of water. It may accountability for cooperative societies and, be that we would provide for cartage of water. this year, the money, $10m, would be included. However, the Statement of Report adopted. 13 June 1995 12448 Legislative Assembly

Estimates Committee B The committee believes that the Report Estimates process requires further The CHAIRMAN: Order! The question examination and evaluation by the Parliament, is— and I emphasise "the Parliament", to ensure that the process achieves maximum "That the report of Estimates effectiveness. In its report to the Parliament, Committee B be adopted." Estimates Committee B has highlighted for the Mr BRISKEY (Cleveland) (3.27 p.m.): attention of the Parliament specific matters As Chairman of Estimates Committee B, it is that it considers should be reviewed in relation an honour to be able to speak today. I do not to the Estimates process. Any review would wish to speak about the recommendations also need to consider the Budget contained within the report, nor do I wish to documentation, as this underpins the manner speak about the proposed expenditure that in which the Estimates committees operate. was reviewed by the committee. Those In the short time remaining to me I will matters will be canvassed by my committee outline three broad areas which should be colleagues. Rather, I wish to speak about the subject to review by the Parliament. Firstly, Estimates committee process. Budget documentation, which is central to the At the outset, I believe that it must be Estimates committee process. The more emphasised that this is only the second year information that is contained within the of Estimates committees operating within the documentation, the easier it is for Estimates Queensland Parliament. The Estimates committees to focus on particular areas. committee process is very much in its infancy or formative years in Queensland. Only two Secondly, I refer to the structure of the years ago, there were no Estimates committee hearings. Some members committees. Therefore, any criticism of the suggested that time limits be dispensed with Estimates committee process must recognise and that members have unlimited time in that the process is only young and will develop which to question Ministers. Particular further. suggestions have been made that the provision of equal time for questioning by In my opinion, the Estimates committee Government and Opposition members be process had a good start last year and has dispensed with. I believe that could be continued to develop and show its worth this achieved. However, the important thing to year. It must be remembered that Estimates remember is that such a change would require committees are about the scrutiny of public considerable goodwill. expenditure. Further, the role of the committees to scrutinise expenditure is not The third item is direct questioning of limited to questioning the amount of public servants. At present, the Minister expenditure. The committees' role also answers all questions asked by committee includes the scrutiny of the effectiveness and members unless the questions are referred to efficiency of that expenditure. one of the public servants. Some members The new Estimates committees are a have suggested that those public servants be crucial reform which place Ministers, senior available for direct questioning by committee public servants and each departmental budget members. Once again, considerable goodwill under scrutiny and deliver to the people of and appropriate behaviour would have to Queensland a level of accountability in respect accompany any such change. On behalf of of the Budget never seen before. The scrutiny the committee, I congratulate the Ministers of the effectiveness and efficiency of who demonstrated a willingness to allow their Government expenditure is able to be senior departmental officers to answer achieved through a bipartisan Estimates questions asked by the committee. Those process. I emphasise "bipartisan", because departmental officers were able to provide the process can only be effective when it is detailed and comprehensive answers to many bipartisan. For the process to work requires of the questions asked by members of the goodwill from both sides of the Chamber. We committee. The committee encourages this must all recognise that no mechanism is approach for further hearings. perfect and, as a consequence, the process Finally, I take this opportunity to thank all requires periodic review to determine whether members of my committee for the genuine improvements can be made. However, I can spirit of goodwill and cooperation which they foresee that change, if it is necessary, will only displayed during the process. The Estimates be achieved if it is approached in a bipartisan committee experience is a valuable one for manner. In this context I am talking about an many members, Ministers and public servants. atmosphere of cooperation and goodwill. I am sure that I speak for the committee when Legislative Assembly 12449 13 June 1995

I say that I look forward to the further he was able to provide a breakdown of specific development and enhancement of this budget details for the 1994-95 financial year. valuable accountability process. I also take this Obviously, the Government is making a opportunity to thank the committee's research mockery out of the budgetary process, and a staff, Neil Laurie and Graeme Kinnear, who Budget that does not undertake this provided valuable assistance to the committee budgetary process cannot be called a Budget. and worked very hard during that process. Surely, it is a Clayton's Budget. Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly) The Minister was unable to provide any (3.32 p.m.): I would like to express my details regarding the savings being made by disappointment with the Minister's behaviour the Department of Justice in a number of during the Estimates committee hearing. The areas, particularly in relation to the merger of Minister for Justice and Attorney-General and the Land Court, the Planning and Minister for the Arts continually avoided Environment Court and part of the Building answering my specific questions and, instead, Tribunal. Because the Minister has no provided weak and broad statements that knowledge of the savings being made by that were largely irrelevant to the issues. He used merger, we have to question whether there rhetorical language to cover up his inability to are any cost savings to be gained by provide the correct information. That behaviour implementing that new management by a Minister does nothing to enhance the structure. process of an Estimates committee. When questioned about the aim of the I am disappointed that, overall, the Legal Aid Office for a 5 per cent improvement standard of answers given to questions asked in customer service evaluation, the Minister during the Estimate committee process had was unable to answer why the initiative has deteriorated significantly since last year. The been implemented only in the 1995-96 Government needs to stop hiding behind financial year and why it had not been answers that are weak and full of rhetoric and addressed in previous years. Instead, he be responsible for its actions and those of its attempted to sidestep the issue and gave an departments. Specific questions require answer that was totally irrelevant to the specific specific answers. It is disgraceful that question. questions about a Minister's expenditure on In relation to the implementation of the items such as travel are not allowed to be Matters Management System within the office asked during the Estimates committee hearing of the Director of Prosecutions, which I raised of the relevant Minister's department but are during last year's Estimates committee allowed to be asked only during the hearing of hearing—the Minister was unable to justify the the Estimates committee relating to the cost savings for the new management Treasurer. I believe that it is unacceptable that structure. I believe that it is unacceptable that Ministers are not accountable for their own a proposed impact document to identify the personal expenditure. Obviously, the working hours saved in the office of the Government is allowing its Ministers to spend Director of Prosecutions is to be undertaken at taxpayers' money without having to justify their this point whereas it should have been expenses, except through the Treasury completed before the new system was Estimates committee. Previously, I have raised implemented. I think that it is only fair and in this place the unacceptable practice of reasonable that this work should be carried out backbench members of Parliament being at the outset. Again, we see the Government accountable to the Parliament in detail for their putting the cart before the horse. It makes a travel expenses whereas Ministers of the farce of any programs that the Government Crown table their overall travel expenses in implements without knowing the costs and bulk without any justification. It is clear that benefits of the new processes. there is a breakdown in the budgetary process, with no specific allocation for travel Compared with last year's Estimates expenses being made within departments. committee, I believe that this year's Estimates The Minister for Justice and Attorney-General committee failed dismally. Information was not was unable to give details of the distribution of supplied, and proper budget details were not funds for overseas travel by each of the forthcoming. The proper functioning of a judges of the Court of Appeal—his excuse committee is impossible when the Minister, being that they had not yet been finalised. when asked in the appropriate manner by Furthermore, the Minister was unaware of the committee members, is not willing to provide specific travel expenditure details in relation to information of a budgetary nature. Unless the 1994-95 financial year, even though something is done, it will be very easy for during last year's Estimates committee hearing those committees to develop into political 13 June 1995 12450 Legislative Assembly slanging matches and break down totally service; and that was no mean feat. The owing to the lack of cooperation of Ministers. importance that this Government has placed I place on record my thanks to the on Emergency Services is illustrated by the committee staff members for their assistance Deputy Premier, Tom Burns, being responsible throughout the committee processes. I trust for that portfolio. Funding for emergency that we will see a review of the current services has not always been easy to get. I committee system over the next 12 months know that, in Cabinet, Tom is always keen for before we again undertake Estimates his department to get a fair share of funding. committee hearings in the next financial year. I On a couple of occasions, I have had to call believe that amendments to the process that an ambulance to my home. I thank the we follow are required in a number of sectors Balmoral and district ambulance officers for their promptness in the service that they gave, to ensure that Estimates committees are once on a Saturday afternoon and once in the relevant and functioning in an appropriate middle of the night. On both occasions, those manner and that Ministers provide answers to officers were very prompt in arriving and questions of a budgetary nature. It is simply looked after those people who needed their not good enough for those matters to be attention. answered in florid, rhetorical language when specific questions are asked about budgetary One of the other portfolio responsibilities matters. of Tom Burns is the SES. I had the opportunity to travel from Cairns to Bamaga Time expired. with the Minister and to talk to the many Mr PURCELL (Bulimba) (3.37 p.m.): I volunteers who work in the SES. There are am pleased to have the opportunity to speak 80,000-plus volunteers in Queensland. in this debate of the report of Estimates Members do not realise the amount of work Committee B. Firstly, I state my appreciation that people put into emergency services and for the chairman, Darryl Briskey, who did a very training week after week. We expect those good job. Darryl gave all members of that people to be there when we need them. The committee the opportunity to ask many Bush Fire Brigades and the SES are run on a questions and limited himself to one question voluntary basis. The record budget that we about a matter relating to his own electorate. I have allocated to those services in know that he had many more questions that Queensland should continue, and this he would have liked to ask. I also thank our Parliament should give them a vote of thanks research officer, Mr Neil Laurie, and our senior for the work that they continue to do. A lot of research officer, Mr Graeme Kinnear, who volunteers are involved in the Bush Fire gave all members a good service. They were Brigades, the SES and the local ambulance. very willing to help in any way, shape or form. They are committed to their community. Estimates Committee B covered a Mr Bredhauer: There has been a major multitude of departments: Police and upgrade of those emergency services since Corrective Services, Queensland Emergency that trip. Services, the Office of Consumer Affairs, the Mr PURCELL: I am pleased to hear Department of Justice and Attorney-General that. On the trip that I undertook, the Minister and the Arts. During the time I have left, I will was very diligent with the meetings he refer to a couple of those departments. conducted with people. We were attending Firstly, I refer to Corrective Services. I was five to six meetings per day, and the day pleased to note that, in answer to a question, started at 6.30 a.m. when Tom would knock Mr Braddy made it plain that funding for the on my door and say, "Are you going to let the WORC camps will continue. I have had the sun burn you out of bed?" Those meetings opportunity to travel to those WORC camps in continued until about 12 o'clock at night. We central and western Queensland and see the were meeting with people to hear what they work that they do. It behoves those had to say and what their problems were. communities to get a lot of work done by Most of their problems related to those WORC camps. It also assists those communications and not having the right prisoners to assimilate into the community so equipment to do their job. I am pleased to see that they do not return to a life of crime and to that that trip has paid off for those people in the prison system. I believe that the money those areas. that has been and will be spent on that Before I conclude, I would like to touch on program is money very well spent. the arts, being my favourite subject. I thank Questions were asked about the the Minister for what he has done to take the Ambulance Service, which has gone from a arts to the people in the bush. community-based service to a Statewide Time expired. Legislative Assembly 12451 13 June 1995

Mr COOPER (Crows Nest) (3.43 p.m.): committees could also fall into that role. As a In relation to the previous contribution, I say Parliament, honourable members are worth that the Minister for the Arts did not give a very more than that. Honourable members on good performance on the night of the those committees need to have access to Estimates hearing. He could have answered information. No-one should feel concerned the questions directed to him a lot better. that the provision of information might do Firstly, I recognise the work of Neil Laurie, harm or damage. Graeme Kinnear and the irrepressible Sandy I mentioned some of our Reservations. Rowse, who did an excellent job to assist the This year, as last year, I mentioned the need workings of the committee. As I said last year, to have police facilities recognised at the concept of the Estimates committees is Woodford, where the new 400-bed, high right. However, I believe that the format needs security prison is going. As was the case last to be opened up so that the departmental year, there was a lot in the Estimates about officers and public servants who turn up in big the prison but nothing in relation to increased numbers and do a lot of work and research in police facilities, something that a high-security the weeks preceding the hearings can play a gaol has to have. The provision of that gaol greater role. It is a waste to have such a Ben will require other Government services. Those Hur production, with public servants attending should also be included in Estimates. This the Estimates but not being given much of an year, the Minister decided to duck out of that opportunity to participate other than by acting issue by claiming that the question concerned as advisers to Ministers. Although Ministers the Police Service Estimates, not those of can answer most questions, sometimes Corrective Services. However, the Minister has technical questions are asked, and the the responsibility for both services. The Ministers cannot be expected to know provision of police goes hand in hand with the everything. The departmental officers who building of a new prison. I mentioned last year, have done the work and research should be and I do so again now, that those facilities able to put forward their answers and be should be part and parcel of it. The prison is questioned. I do not think that anyone on being constructed and with that must go either side of politics would take public increased police numbers. servants to task politically. We are just looking for information, which is what the whole idea of I mention also the problem that the Estimates hearings is about. Minister has with the Criminal Justice Commission with respect to the definition of Estimates committees are information- "operational" police. That is the sort of issue gathering exercises. That process has worked that has to be resolved. The Minister and the quite well. For example, answers to questions CJC must work out a proper format for defining on notice can provide information that is of operational police so that budgetary decisions value to all members of the committee in can be made. The 19 per cent pay increase better understanding the portfolio, in particular that is the basis of the flexible rostering system Police and Corrective Services. The concept of is based on operational police numbers. the line-item format negates the function of Those numbers are either 90 per cent or 73 the hearings to the large degree. It is a pity per cent of the strength of the Police Service. that that format limits the process to such an There will be quite a financial difference unless extent that the process becomes Government the definition of operational police is right. friendly, which is not what it is all about. This year, we saw more dorothy dixers and each Time expired. one soaked up the full time allocation, as did Mrs WOODGATE (Kurwongbah) the Ministers' answers, which is filibustering. If (3.46 p.m.): I am pleased to support the Ministers know what they are on about and recommendation that the proposed what they are doing, filibustering is not expenditure as outlined by Estimates entering into the spirit of the process; they Committee B be agreed to. I am very should own up that they do not know about interested in the subject of law and order. aspects of their portfolios. With respect to When I was elected in 1989, law and order certain instances of filibustering, I was only too were bad words in the Kurwongbah area. Now, glad that the second State of Origin game was being a demure and modest type, I do not on. take the credit for solving that problem. I reiterate that the process should be However, I wish to place on the public record conducted properly. The whole format needs today that law and order is not an issue in my to be changed. If we are heading towards a electorate. Crime is on the way down. People very dull and boring line item-type can walk along the street at any time of day arrangement, the proposed parliamentary and see the police cars cruising around. One 13 June 1995 12452 Legislative Assembly thinks that the media tried to beat up the Commissioner O'Sullivan, Assistant crime issue. Certainly, the local media tried to Commissioner Greg Early, Inspector Retrot let people know that crime was a burning issue from the Petrie Police Station all attended that and that the seat would be fought or won on morning tea. Some 189 people attended. We the issue of law and order. However, that is had to turn people away. He answered their not the case. questions, which were put fairly and squarely. This Government and the current Police They identified problems. Those people let the Service hierarchy have done a very good job. I commissioner and the other police officers was interested to read the Budget papers with know what a great job the locals think they are respect to law and order to see what the key doing. It was the best thing that ever initiatives were. Budget Paper No. 3 mentions happened to me. I did not even have to that law and order is a worldwide problem. It is campaign on law and order for the next a problem in this State and across the country. fortnight because my phone ran hot; people The Government and the Minister do not resile rang to tell me what a good job the police are doing and how ridiculous it was that the from that fact, and they are working to identify police—who were there to answer the people, where the problems are. I could not put my to get up and tell the people what is finger on any one initiative that has solved that happening—were slated on television for problem in my electorate. However, I refer to doing so by people who would not have any the Police Beat shopfronts and the high idea how to campaign locally against crime morale of the police. Corruption has been and to help the people whom they were cleaned out of the Police Service. As I said, elected to represent. we certainly inherited a bad situation with respect to law and order in 1989. Having said that, I congratulate the Minister for Police on a very good All-new law and order initiatives are being budget—another record budget of $541m for implemented where appropriate and are the coming year as compared with what we resulting in reduced crime rates. In relation to inherited in 1989. When I won my seat in the Petrie Police Station, which looks after my 1989, the budget for the region that electorate of Kurwongbah, I was very pleased Kurwongbah covered was $14.8m. When I to read the official police statistics that break last checked, in 1993-94 it had increased to a and enters have dropped 47.7 per cent for the massive $41.7m. I have not got around to corresponding three months last year. I lay the seeing what it is this year, but people can work praise for that at this Government's initiatives out what the percentage increase would be. and the local police. Police Commissioner As I said, there are more patrol cars on the O'Sullivan, and his boys and girls in blue are road and morale is very high. I congratulate doing a great job. They deserve to be the police. commended. As to the Ambulance Service—the local Anyone who may have been fortunate or ambos are very happy. The Deputy Premier unfortunate enough, depending on their point was with me at Dayboro a few weeks ago. We of view, to watch the TV a few weeks ago had an unofficial meeting on the side of the would have seen that I was in the firing line for road, sitting on the ambulance car, with all the hosting a law and order morning tea. That was local ambulance officers and the LAC. They very unfairly reported. Without a shadow of are very happy with what this Government is contradiction, that was the most successful doing, as are the bush fire brigades—those at function that I have ever hosted. Sure, it cost Mount Mee, Ocean View, Clear Mountain, me a bit. I put my hand in my pocket and paid Closeburn and Mount Nebo. They are very for the lot, not as was mentioned by the happy with the way this Government is going. Leader of the Opposition and the Liberal Party They are very pleased with the provision in the publicly on Channel 2 and radio. It did not cost Budget for local bush fire brigades and anyone anything. The Police Commissioner Emergency Services. That is another example was not attending a Labor Party function. He of this Government putting its money where its attended a function because the people in mouth is. Kurwongbah are sick and tired of Time expired. misinformation from politicians and the media. Mr ROWELL (Hinchinbrook) (3.53 p.m.): They wanted to talk to the police, not the I rise to speak to the report of Estimates politicians. The politicians came along. I was Committee B. I want to refer to the Fair very happy that the Minister came along to Trading Program in particular, which is an area say what the policy of this Government is. He that I monitor very closely. The Office of took a back seat, as I did. Consumer Affairs administers over 80 Acts. It Legislative Assembly 12453 13 June 1995 is ridiculous that only 20 minutes was allowed documents. I am sure that those regulations to enable Opposition members to obtain a will be scrutinised closely. The PPS referred to better understanding of the financial workings consumer awareness material, but no outlays of the office. Areas administered by the office were made available for educational include: auctioneers and agents, which programs. Where will the funds for this includes motor vehicle dealers and those in initiative—which is to target rural groups, ethnic the real estate industry; the Associations groups, seniors, women and those with limited Incorporation Act, which is extremely important literacy skills—come from? I could see nothing for charities; birth, death and marriage in the PPS regarding this matter. certificates; business names registration; The delivery of service offered by the Fair censorship, which is important in mounting the Trading Program in regional offices is to be fight against pornography—a very pertinent extended. I would have liked to inquire about issue at present—consumer affairs in general; that initiative. Telephone client services for the Security Providers Act; tourism licensing; information relating to licensing and trade measurements; various church Acts; registration requirements were not able to be credit and hire-purchase Acts; hawker canvassed; nor was the specialist intensive licensing; showgrounds Acts; funeral benefits; investigation process relating to products that and REVS, the register of encumbered may have a potential detriment to consumers. vehicles. Another matter that I would have liked to have Given the scant amount of time covered was the intention to amend the apportioned to this section of the Minister's Auctioneers and Agents Act to strengthen portfolio, either the Government has little consumer protection. The fund created in that regard for Consumer Affairs or it does not want Act is being used as a milch cow for a variety the Consumer Affairs budget to undergo of Government initiatives. Just how much closer scrutiny. A considerable amount of further does the Government intend to lower legislation relating to consumer affairs was the reserves of that fund? I would like to passed over the past 12 months, but during highlight a number of other matters, but time the Estimates committee hearing Opposition does not permit me to do so. For instance, I members had no opportunity to examine the would like to once again highlight the fact that impact of that legislation. During that 12- I could not utilise the Parliamentary Library to month period, six Bills relating to consumer obtain information relating to consumer affairs affairs were passed. matters. I raised that matter with the Minister The Portfolio Program Statements were and I was satisfied with his explanation, but I an improvement on those presented last year, would not like to see a recurrence of that but a lack of definition in the information situation. I congratulate the research director, provided was one of the problems that I Neil Laurie, the senior research officer, encountered. If there is to be a genuine Graeme Kinnear, and Sandy Rowse, who did attempt to scrutinise the Estimates and the a marvellous job on the preparation and typing past performances of departments, it is of various documents. necessary to provide more detailed I want to turn briefly to a section covered information so that time is not devoted to by the budget for the Police Service, that is, matters which should have been part of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander liaison Estimates information. That was a major officers. I was concerned to discover that the problem that I encountered with the Estimates 94 people—— of the Office of Consumer Affairs. I had to Time expired. delve into information that was not contained in the PPS, and as a result considerable time Mr T. B. SULLIVAN (Chermside) was wasted. (3.58 p.m.): I rise to support the Estimates before the Committee. I support the statement Areas on which I would have liked to ask by the Minister for Police and Minister for questions about the Government's future Corrective Services that we will be appointing program included the costs involved in the extra police over the next three years. I am improving the birth, death and marriage thankful for the 1,500 extra operational police registers. It is evident that new initiatives are to who have been appointed in recent years. I be introduced in this field. Due to time am amazed that the Opposition is critical of a constraints, I did not have an opportunity to number of the measures through which the investigate that matter further. Since the Minister has provided for police to the areas in Budget was brought down, a whole string of which they are needed. regulations relating to the Office of Consumer Affairs has been introduced, and they The numbers of operational police are obviously were not included in the Budget indisputable, even if Mr Cooper wants to query 13 June 1995 12454 Legislative Assembly certain aspects of those figures. There is no fallacy of some of the complaints and dispute that there have been significant whingeing that we hear from members of the increases in police staffing levels, and yet the Opposition to say that this Government is soft Opposition keeps claiming that things are not on crime and that it is not doing its job. I think being done properly. I do not know whether it is a disaster that we have so many people members opposite are criticising the senior who need to be catered for in prisons. The fact operational police or the police on the beat for is that those breaking the law are being not doing the job, but the police are there and caught by the police, they are being I believe that the police are doing the job. prosecuted in the courts and they are ending There have been more convictions; there has up in prison. been a whole range of improvements. I cite as That is particularly the case with juvenile an example the question that the Minister offenders. Our juvenile detention centres are responded to during the Estimates committee not just full, they are overflowing. The member hearings on the Drug Squad. He stated that seated beside me, the member for Brisbane the amount confiscated by that squad in Central, is well aware of the Sir Leslie Wilson recent times has been enormous. Youth Centre and its overcrowding problems. The Property Squad—and I have a That is not because juvenile offenders are particular interest in that squad because the getting away with crime, it is because they are area of Wavell Heights/Chermside has been being caught for theft and break-ins, they are hit by home theft quite a lot in recent being prosecuted and they are being removed years—has targeted those who are most from society for a time. I look forward to the closely involved in that illegal activity and has time when we can put more remediation been successful in achieving a number of programs in place so that we can help reduce breakthroughs with regard to capturing and the need for juvenile detention centres. convicting persons involved in it. Allied to that was the Minister's discussion on the more than I would like to support the Deputy $6m which will allow the new rostering system Premier's contribution to the Emergency to be implemented. There has been a Services Department. There is new equipment complaint in the past that criminals do not replacing old for urban and rural fire operate 9 to 5; why can't the police operate appliances and for ambulances. That is outside of those hours? This is exactly what definitely needed. As I travelled with the will be happening under the new annuated Minister through the bush, I was amazed to payment system which will allow the police to see that areas in the bush that were supposed be rostered in the most crime-prevalent times to be looked after by the National Party had of Thursday evenings to Monday mornings. very poor equipment. Some did not even have radios that allowed them to communicate I read recently a note that the member for without difficulty if they required help. This Aspley, John Goss, was putting around Goss Government Minister, based in Brisbane, saying, "We need more police on the beat. has seen that need and has put his money They are taking police away from us." In the where his mouth is. He has provided improved past, not all police stations were open 24 material for the people in the bush. The hours. Many worked simply the 9 to 4 shift. As Minister has a practical approach to well, police in vehicles were restricted to Emergency Services and this Government has patrolling small regions. Under clustering, more a practical approach to providing services not vehicles are available. Instead of police only for the people in the south-east corner officers sitting behind manual typewriters that but also for people all over Queensland. the mob opposite provided for them spending two and three hours a shift typing up crime Time expired. reports, the CRISP system will free police to do Mrs SHELDON (Caloundra—Leader of the work that they need to do. The the Liberal Party) (4.03 p.m.): Nowhere was civilianisation program also will allow those who there more concern expressed by the are trained to do police work to do police work. Opposition about the Estimates committees Why should a fully trained police officer be than in the Estimates for the Arts. I see that spending his or her time behind a typewriter or the Minister is just about the leave the doing administrative tasks that could be done Chamber; it is a pity he did not leave the by an untrained civilian? Estimates committee during the hearing into I refer now to Corrective Services. It is a the Arts Estimates. The fact of the matter is shame that we need more prison cells, but that the Minister was so interested in the that is an indication that the police are in fact importance of the Arts in this State that only capturing more people and that the courts are one half hour was allocated to the Estimates processing them and convicting them. It is a for the Arts. Legislative Assembly 12455 13 June 1995

Mr T. B. Sullivan: We made that When I asked the Minister a question as decision so we would not have to put up with to why NAISDA had not been forthcoming in you for more than that time. any noticeable form, even on paper, in the Mrs SHELDON: I do wish the Arts Estimates, he continued to filibuster and honourable member would keep quiet; he is said that a centre had to be found. When I such a moron. asked him where the centre was, of course there was no answer. The fact is that there is The CHAIRMAN: Order! The Chair no centre and that Creative Nation was considers that term unparliamentary and asks creative imagination on the part of the Mr the honourable member to withdraw. Keating, followed up by the Minister. The Mrs SHELDON: I substitute "a person Minister had no intention of basing that with limited intelligence". Aboriginal centre for culture and the arts in The CHAIRMAN: I just asked for a Brisbane at all; we see no commitment by the withdrawal. Minister in the Budget papers. If he was committed, there would be mention of it in Mrs SHELDON: I will withdraw. By the those documents. There is not one word time the Minister had made his statement, about it. It was a lot of nonsense, and the Opposition members had 13 minutes to ask Minister knows it, as is his commitment to the questions of him on the Arts Estimates. Then art and culture of Aboriginals. we heard a great deal of filibustering and an incredibly poor performance by the Minister in I also queried Stage 5 of the Queensland reply to any question that was asked. Really, Performing Arts Centre. This is the phantom there was no commitment by him to the Arts. arts centre. It has been mentioned now in There are a couple of other points I would seven budgets. Mr Ahern allocated $50m, and like to raise. This Minister said that under had he remained in power, there would have Labor the budgets for the Arts had increased. been $24.5m allocated to actually build it. Now When one looks at the real figures, one sees we find that it is still a hole in the ground; that that is not the case. Real per capita nothing has been built. In the past seven budgets, the amount allocated for capital funding for Arts was 15.8 per cent higher in works has not been spent. In fact, in one year the last conservative budget of 1989-90 than during this Labor Party's reign, $12,000 was in the 1995-96 budget currently before the actually spent, yet the Minister says, "Trust Queensland Parliament. The fact is that that is me, it will be up by the end of the year." When in direct contradiction to the claim by the Arts I asked about the extension to the Minister, who said that Arts spending had Queensland Art Gallery, which is desperately increased by $40m over the life of his Labor needed, he said, "Possibly, in the fullness of Government. time, in a decade or two." I can tell the One of the most important things that Minister that that did not go over very well with needs to be spelt out is that there has not the people involved in arts in this State or with been an actual increase in Arts funding over the Queensland Art Gallery. the six years that Labor has been in Government. When real budgeted arts I turn now to the parlous state of the expenditure per person in the year of Queensland Museum. Very obviously, that allocation is calculated, it shows that the museum needs to be relocated, and the former conservative Government allocated sensible thing to do would be to extend the art $34.34 per capita and that the ALP's latest gallery into the museum site. The curator and budget allocates only $29.65 per capita. the people who work in the museum tell me that it is not adequate for their needs and that Mr Wells: Could we have that again, this State, which has the highest proportion of please? Aboriginals of any State in Australia, has the Mrs SHELDON: Yes, I will say it again. lowest proportion of funding for the arts and In real terms, the conservatives allocated for the maintenance of their artefacts. I am $4.69 or 15.8 per cent more per person to the told that Victoria spends five times the amount Arts than in the Labor budget this year. I on preserving the artefacts and history of believe that this level of funding is certainly not Aborigines as does Mr Wells. what is required and if the level of funding had Time expired. been maintained by Labor, this year's Arts allocation would have had to be $115.726m, Mr BEATTIE (Brisbane Central) $15.82m more than the Minister and Mr De (4.08 p.m.): I rise to speak on the report of Lacy are giving the Arts in this community. So Estimates Committee B and the relevant much for the furphies the Minister put forward legislation. In doing so, I start by taking up a during the hearing on the Arts Estimates. point that the honourable member for 13 June 1995 12456 Legislative Assembly

Chermside referred to, that is, the Sir Leslie make a total of 152 firefighters allocated Wilson Youth Centre for youth detainees in my across Queensland, with the majority going to electorate. I put on the formal record of this Brisbane and the Gold Coast. The first course place my appreciation of the fact that money has commenced, the second will commence has now been allocated for the construction of in September, the third in January and the an alternative centre. I am delighted that the fourth in June 1996. Sir Leslie Wilson Youth Centre in Windsor will In the couple of minutes remaining I will close in June 1996. I am absolutely delighted refer to what I think is a very good kit, the Age- with that, as are my constituents who live wise kit, which the Minister released recently. nearby. This is in the consumer affairs area. To date During the Estimates hearing reference approximately 18,000 copies of this Age-wise was made to funding in the area of fire kit, a consumer information kit for seniors, services. It is worth pointing out in this debate have been distributed since the second week that, in 1993-94, there were 7,928 false in March. The kit was formally released by the alarms out of 13,612 calls, which is 58.24 per Deputy Premier at a special Consumer Week cent, and to date in 1994-95, there have been launch on 15 March. Age-wise was sent to all 5,724 false alarms out of 11,117 calls, which is MLAs, libraries, QGAP offices, Country 51.49 per cent. That gives some indication of Women's Association branches, community more care being needed in the community. information centres, community groups, We can do without those false alarms. The retirement villages, senior citizens centres and Fire Service works hard enough as it is without the media. The initial feedback has been very having to cope with those unnecessary calls. I good. Six thousand of the initial print run of would hope that there would be more 12,000 were distributed in the first mail-out, responsible behaviour from people in the and the remainder were sent out after that. community in relation to those false calls. The Age-wise kit is aimed at seniors in the In my electorate are two of the biggest fire community as well as care providers. The kit stations in the State, one at Kemp Place and covers senior consumer issues such as how one at Roma Street. I was pleased to hear the the Office of Consumer Affairs works, how to following information provided to the avoid shonks, charity collections, door-to-door committee by the Deputy Premier: if one looks sales, home safety for seniors and home at the ratio of persons protected by each full- security. time fire officer on a State by State basis, one I also congratulate the Minister on the finds that in Queensland it is 1,675 persons school leavers' information booklet on the per firefighter; in New South Wales it is 2,512 pitfalls of buying a used car, 40,000 of which persons per firefighter; in Victoria, in the have been distributed to date. It is a booklet metropolitan area, it is 2,048 persons per entitled, "Your first used car—buy with your firefighter; and in Western Australia it is 1,682 head, not your heart". It was released by the persons per firefighter. In fact, Queensland is Minister at Wynnum North High School. It in a much better position than New South targets senior students specifically with life Wales, Victoria or Western Australia. There is skills information. not much difference between the position in Queensland and that in South Australia: in Time expired. Queensland 1,675 persons are protected per Hon. P. J. BRADDY (Rockhampton— firefighter; in South Australia it is 1,625 Minister for Police and Minister for Corrective persons. In fact, comparatively that is not a Services) (4.13 p.m.): I am pleased to be able bad position. to speak today in relation to the main I am pleased to see that the Deputy concerns expressed by the Government in the Premier has indicated that contracts are in the Budget relating to Police and Corrective process of being let for the purchase of one Services, which is of course to build on what higher reach fire appliance, two telescopic we have done in the previous five Budgets aerial appliances, seven standard pumper and to foreshadow where we will go in the appliances and one special purpose rescue future. vehicle for the greater Brisbane region this This particular Budget sees an increase of financial year at a cost of around $4.6m. I 7.5 per cent or $38m in the Police budget and congratulate the Minister on that initiative. The an increase of 10 per cent in the Corrective Queensland Fire Service Commissioner has Services budget, which now exceeds $200m. been instructed by the Deputy Premier to It is a matter of great pride for this conduct four recruit training courses. The first Government that, during a time of concern three will consist of 44 firefighters and the about crime Australia-wide, over the whole of fourth will consist of 25 firefighters. This will our time in office we have consistently Legislative Assembly 12457 13 June 1995 supplied money and resources to fighting this everything possible to arrest them, prosecute serious matter, not only in the police area but them and gaol them. The policy is to make also in the prisons area. I remind honourable gaol inevitable for those criminals rather than members that in 1989-90, the Police budget for people who commit lesser offences. was $295m. This year, the budget is $541m. We are particularly concerned to try to cut Despite attempts by the Opposition to out the last of the fine defaulters from our demean that magnificent record and to system. They are going to prison now because suggest that the money is wasted, as the they choose to do that rather than perform Opposition does, is, of course, laughable. It community service, even if they cannot pay would be a defamation of the whole of the their fine. The Department of the Attorney- Queensland Police Service to suggest that it is General, the Corrective Services Commission incapable of administering a budget such as and the police are working together to try to that. In fact, the reverse is true. cut out the last vestige of fine defaulters going There are 1,500 more operational police to Corrective Services institutions. Some of than when we came to office. The honourable them will do anything rather than pay a fine or member for Crows Nest made reference to the do community service. Those are the sorts of dispute, as he calls it, with the CJC which has areas where we can make improvements in a definition of "direct service delivery" while the the future in the context of significantly police use the term "operational". It may increased budgets, and we make no apology relieve the member to know that the police are for that. talking to the CJC about a consistent Time expired. definition. We make no apology for criticising the CJC in this regard. Any definition that is Hon. D. M. WELLS (Murrumba— used by the Opposition and some members of Minister for Justice and Attorney-General and the media to denigrate the police is, of course, Minister for the Arts) (4.18 p.m.): I refer to the a bad definition. The fact that the CJC insists speech by the honourable lady who has upon using a definition which rules out any recently walked out of the Chamber—the very commissioned officer being operational shows same lady who accused me of walking out of what a nonsense the definition is. To suggest the Chamber a moment ago. I would like the that none of the commissioned officers in the Leader of the Liberal Party to know that I was Queensland Police Service are carrying out not leaving the Chamber but merely putting significant operational duties clearly is away a pile of documents that I had been laughable. Although it is a little sensitive about working on and completed and which I did not this, the CJC will have to get its house in order. need in front of me. Thanks to the honourable lady's speech, I was able to finish most of I am on record as praising and thanking them. the CJC for the good work that it does in monitoring the efficiency, honesty and The honourable member for Caloundra effectiveness of the Queensland Police made four points which I suppose could be Service, and I reiterate those sentiments headed, "Everything I would have liked to today. The CJC has done an excellent job and have known about the Arts Estimates but was it works very well with the Commissioner and too inarticulate to ask". The first thing that she the Police Service in that regard. It also works wanted to know was: why are we spending extremely well with the Queensland Police in $99m on the arts this year instead of fighting organised crime. However, in this $115.726m? The answer is: because $99m is particular area, it has been a little academic the most that has ever been spent on the arts and it really will have to be a little bit more to and it sufficiently demonstrates the the point in terms of its definitions if it is going commitment of the Goss Labor Government to exclude all Queensland police to this important area of our life. It is a record commissioned officers. amount and it is much more than has ever been spent before. Corrective Services is an important area of great expansion. There are 36 per cent more The second question that the honourable people in our Corrective Services institutions member asked was: why is it that the national than there were 21 months ago. They are Aboriginal performing arts centre, due to be primarily in prison for the more hardened built in Queensland, was not budgeted for by offences and the more serious crimes which the Queensland Government? Answer: attract sentences of five years and over. We because it is a Commonwealth initiative. The have had a falling off of 20 per cent amongst next question that she asked was: why was prisoners sentenced to one year or less. That Stage 5 of the Cultural Centre not built last indicates clearly that Government policy is to year, or the year before that, or 15 years ago? crack down harder on the serious criminals, do Answer: because we are going to build a really 13 June 1995 12458 Legislative Assembly good one and Rome was not built in a day. did not pursue it any further. Since he was so The last question that the honourable member short of material, he wanted to save it up so asked was: why are we not spending more that he would ask one question, he would get money on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander one simple straightforward answer and then, arts? Answer: because we are. When the instead of following it through, he left it so that members opposite were in Government, they he would have something to report on in this were spending less than $20,000; we are now debate on Estimate committee reports. The spending $600,000. Those are the answers to honourable member is so bereft of ideas, so the questions asked by the honourable bereft of arguments, that he has to resort to member for Caloundra. ruses and stratagems in order to give him I turn now to the spiteful little speech something to refer to during this debate. I made by the honourable member for think very little more needs to be said about Indooroopilly. He is in a foul mood because he the performance of the honourable member. made himself look like a dork last week by The honourable member has demonstrated a telling the Parliament that he did not say complete incapacity to use the Estimates something that he did say. He stands up and committees for the purposes for which they tries to pay out in this debate on the Estimates were intended, for the purposes of enhancing committee report. The honourable member the good government of the State. should know that it is not going to wash. The Hon. T. J. BURNS (Lytton—Deputy honourable member raised a number of Premier, Minister for Emergency Services and pettifogging points in his dissenting report. The Consumer Affairs and Minister Assisting the first one—— Premier on Rural Affairs) (4.22 p.m.): Mr Mr Beanland: Could you say that one Chairman—— again? Mr Lingard: Do you know what's going Mr WELLS: Pettifogging. In the on tonight? honourable member's case I would say it was Mr BURNS: What's going on tonight? perfidious pettifogging. The first point that he raised concerned the Director of Prosecutions Mr Lingard: I just asked. Matters Management System. He said that Mr BURNS: I do not know, but we will all that system was probably a good idea but that be here to find out. I thought today was a we had not told him in advance how much we good day to remind members opposite about were going to save. The answer is we do not what used to happen in Estimates debates in know in advance how much we are going to this place. When I first came here, some years save. We do not know in advance because we we debated three Estimates, some years we have not done it yet. When we do we will let got the lot, some years we got six, some nine, the honourable member know. and some Estimates were never debated. The He wanted to know how much was spent decision was made by the then Premier or his on ministerial travel. I explained to him at the cohorts that certain Estimates were never time that that was a matter for the Treasury debated because they were the hot Estimates, that the ministerial expenditure unit Estimates. But we always got a chance to is done through the Treasury. He alone, as far debate the Estimates that did not have much as I could work out, of honourable members meat in them. Sometimes we were lucky if we opposite wanted to complain and wanted to got to debate anything at all. The gag was ask this question because he alone has that used fairly rigorously here over a period by the particular kind of spiteful nature. Premier and his cohorts. The third question that he raised Today everybody in this place is worried concerned the allocation of funds to the Court about election day. I picked up a cartoon. I of Appeal. He said, "Why is there a global keep a lot of cartoons from Joh's days as it allocation of funds to the Court of Appeal gives me a laugh from time to time. In one a rather than a statement about the details?". fellow said, "When will you announce the The answer to that was that the information election?" Joh said, "As soon as we finalise that he was given by, I think, my Director- the results." He has a little card in his hands General, was a global allocation. He was given which reads "New electoral boundaries". The that information and as far as I recall he did other one related to the referendum. It reads, not pursue the matter. He could have said, "I "Vote 'no' or giant snakes will eat your would like some more information on that", in children." The one that is relevant here states: which case we would have given him more or "It's frightening. It's a terrifying document," we could have given him an answer to a said Joh. "The public seem happy," the fellow question on notice. He did not ask for that. He said. "That's what I mean. It's frightening. It's Legislative Assembly 12459 13 June 1995 terrifying." That is what honourable members Mr BURNS: Yes. All over the State rural opposite are saying about this Budget. fire people will say that for the first time In the days when I was in Opposition, we someone has recognised that the 52,000 were never allowed to debate the Estimates, volunteers in rural fires right throughout the yet today Mr Rowell gets up and says, "It is State are entitled to some benefits. At first terrible. They only allowed me 20 minutes to they used to have to pay for their own uniforms, pay to buy their own vehicle and ask questions about consumer affairs." As I then use their own money to buy the petrol. understood it, the committee got together and When we addressed the idea of the levy we decided how much time it would allocate for were attacked. We suggested that instead of Police, how much time it would allocate for the a voluntary levy there should be a compulsory Arts, how much time it would allocate for levy that everybody in those rural communities Consumer Affairs, and how much time it would should pay. We said that it was no different for allocate for Emergency Services. The people living there to people living in urban committee made that decision. I find it very areas of the State. hard to take Mr Rowell seriously when we consider that when honourable members Rural firefighters and the councils in those opposite were in charge we did not debate areas all agree that for the first time someone half of these things. When I was in Opposition is addressing those problems. Honourable I never got the opportunity to decide whether I members can talk about consumer affairs and wanted 20 minutes on Consumer Affairs, two the Age-wise kits, a booklet for young kids hours on Police, two hours on Emergency buying their first cars, about REVS and all of Services or two hours on Arts. I found it those areas that we are addressing that amusing also to think that the honourable should have been done years ago. The other member for Caloundra was going to bring the night honourable members opposite opposed Government down by asking some very the idea of being able to ring up every State in serious questions on the Arts Estimates. Australia and check on an encumbered vehicle. Let us talk about the budget for my Time expired. portfolio. It was for an amount of $354.809m, a 10 per cent increase for Emergency Services Report adopted. this year. When I go to rural fire areas I talk about the Liberal and National Parties that Estimates Committee C never once in the whole history of this State gave one new rural fire engine to any rural fire Report service in the State. Every rural fire service had The CHAIRMAN: Order! The question old jeeps, old Blitzes from the war—old is— second-hand gear, the same as was provided "That the report of Estimates for ambulances. Second-hand ambulances Committee C be adopted." were bought from interstate for the full-time ambulance officers to use. We have done a Mrs EDMOND (Mount Coot-tha) lot of things in relation to fire and ambulances (4.28 p.m.): I am pleased to rise today to and consumer affairs. A lot of work is also recommend the proposed expenditure for the being done in the Aboriginal communities. Departments of Employment, Vocational Education and Training and Industrial This year $1m is going into Aboriginal Relations, Education and Health to the House. communities. The honourable member for In doing so, I would like to take some few Cook has raised it on a number of occasions minutes to discuss the Estimates committee but we are putting our first ambulances and process thus far and reiterate my support for it. the first gear into the State emergency To my mind, this process is an important services in those communities. Did they not continuation of the Fitzgerald reform process ever have a disaster there before? Did anyone that is increasingly making the Queensland never get hurt in Aboriginal communities and Parliament more open to public accountability. the islands before? Why in the 30-odd years It also provides a venue for the Parliament to of the National Party did they never find any scrutinise each department and the Minister money to spend on ambulance services for responsible for the department. Aboriginal or Islanders up in those very, very remote communities? To do so adequately relies on a number of conditions, some of which have been met Mr Bredhauer: They have done more during the process last year and this, and in the Cooktown auxiliary fire service in the last some that have quite definitely not been met. 2 years than in 14 years before that. I would like to touch briefly on some of these. 13 June 1995 12460 Legislative Assembly

The three departments within the focus of hoped that the process would be improved Committee C are major departments this year. However, we have repeatedly heard expending a significant portion of the State criticism from the Opposition about the format Budget. They are, therefore, complex of Estimates committee hearings and their departments and a significant effort needs to failure to use them to best advantage. The be made by committee members to come to best way the Estimates committee process grips with these departments, their budgetary can be improved is for Opposition members to line items and any anomalies and be fully involved, play a positive role and discrepancies found within. spend time to research the Budget papers. In Last year, I complimented DEVETIR on both years, I have taken considerable time to the format and information held in its do this, and I recommend that effort to those Estimates briefing statements and opposite. recommended that other departments follow It would also significantly help the process that format. I am pleased to say that this year if non-Government committee members were all departments have produced such interested enough to follow the scrutiny of statements, now called Portfolio Program departments other than the ones that they Statements, that provided clear, uniform and shadow, and perhaps even sit in on those easy-to-read budget information. They also other parts of the hearings and ask relevant provided comparison tables for budget lines questions. I would have expected that all for the 1994-95 Budget and this year's members of Parliament would have an interest Budget. Footnotes explained anomalies and in areas such as Education, Health and changes to information provided. I must DEVETIR. As I did last year, as chairperson I congratulate all departments on the Portfolio wrote to all Government backbenchers inviting Program Statements presented. I believe the relevant questions for each department to be departments did everything possible to explain either submitted or asked personally with leave and clarify the Budget process for committee of the committee. Some members chose to members and at this stage I must thank all take advantage of that invitation. I assume three Ministers and their departmental officers that Opposition committee members also for the very openness with which they provided invited questions from their colleagues. information and answered questions. Certainly, the Deputy Clerk of the Parliament However, as I have commented wrote to all members outlining the procedure elsewhere, this process should not be about available to them. I place on record my political point scoring but about providing the gratitude for the assistance and advice of Parliament and, in particular, the Opposition research director, Louise Hepworth, her with an ideal opportunity to probe the Minister assistant, Jayenne Conroy, and the committee and his senior officers about the processes secretariat. within the various departments. Members can Mr SANTORO (Clayfield—Deputy ask more questions in one hearing than in a Leader of the Liberal Party) (4.34 p.m.): I whole year of parliamentary question times. welcome the opportunity to speak in the But this process does rely on some effort debate on the report of Estimates Committee being made by committee members. It was C. At the outset, I thank the professional greatly disappointing, therefore, to find that research staff of Estimates Committee C of the Opposition representatives on Estimates this Parliament. This year they have supported Committee C were simply not prepared to the endeavours of the committee to the very make that effort. There was an obvious lack of best of their ability and within the very difficult interest in the process and little forethought or constraints of the current committee system. I planning or following up in the questioning. In also thank the various officers of the fact, they seemed to be waiting to be spoon- Parliament, including and particularly the fed questions, presumably by outside parties. Hansard staff and the departmental officers of When that obviously did not eventuate, they the various departments, who worked long into were left floundering. the night to assist the deliberations of the There was a problem repeated from last committee. year in that some committee members asked I will mention briefly some of the long, convoluted questions and then objected comments I made within the Reservations to equally detailed answers, often interrupting statement of Opposition members, a few other to ask further questions and making the thoughts which may be of interest to the situation very difficult for the timekeepers. Last Parliament and a few other thoughts that have year, allowances were made because of the been motivated by the previous speaker. newness of the process. We all understood Firstly, I endorse the call by other members of that we were on a learning curve, and we the coalition for a proper review of the Legislative Assembly 12461 13 June 1995 operation of the Estimates committee system than deliver political rhetoric and propaganda. within the Queensland Parliament. This call The Minister also displayed his usual was first made last year by the Opposition, but propensity to pad out his answers with a view it was not Parliament which reviewed the to limiting the number of questions which operation of the committee system after last Opposition members could ask. year's first sittings of the committees, but Much has been said about the great Executive Government. This practice ignores amount of information that has been provided the fact—and what should be the to the Opposition through the Portfolio constitutional reality—that Estimates Program Statements. I reiterate my committees are part of the Parliament and not reservations about the information that was of, or controlled by, Executive Government. I provided. There was a real lack of hard data strongly urge that Parliament be given the role for the 1994-95 financial year, because of review, thus acknowledging the supremacy Opposition members were able to have of Parliament over Executive Government. available only Estimates for 1994-95 actual The other issue of great concern to me is expenditure. That problem was compounded that of the relevance of Ministers' answers. by the provision of some statistics on a That point was made by the honourable calendar year basis. Trend analysis and member who preceded me. Honourable meaningful comparison was thus rendered members will recall the contents of the extremely difficult. guidelines for Estimates committee members, I was going to speak about a number of which included that a chairperson was to take other matters, but instead I will address briefly care to ensure that all questions put to the comments made by the honourable witnesses were relevant to the Estimates of member for Mount Coot-tha. The whole expenditure. As the Appropriation Bills were on committee, including and particularly a policy basis and the other Budget Opposition members, were embarrassed when documents were on a program basis, some the honourable member for Mount Coot-tha latitude was required in the scope of started asking the wrong questions, for which questions; some questions would focus on the Minister did not have the answers in front matters such as efficiency, effectiveness and of him. In fact, it was absolutely disgraceful to program implementation as well as the see the amusement on the faces of the administration and expenditure of funds. professional departmental officers as the Where that happened, it may have been honourable member for Mount Coot-tha and difficult to distinguish between policy and the chairman of the committee got it wrong. It administration. Questions on the effectiveness was also absolutely shameful to see the of programs could call into question the policy Minister reply to prepared questions by which spawned those programs, and it was up reading directly from prepared answers. It was to the Minister to determine whether the not Opposition members who ran out of Minister or officers were the most appropriate questions, it was Government members who, to answer. Each case may have been despite the so-called overwhelming amount of different, and it may not have been possible to preparation by the chairman, vacated the establish any uniform or easily applicable committee and did not allow Opposition approach. In my experience, the Minister members to take up the slack. We saw a responsible for the department that I oversee despicable abuse and use of the Estimates as a shadow Minister delivered many answers committee system for political propaganda. with an overwhelming policy perspective rather When I sought to interrupt the chairing of that than an information-specific perspective. committee, I did so because it was so woeful; When pressed for the specific information the chairperson would not keep the Minister's originally requested in the first question, the answers relevant. Minister would refer my question to departmental officers who, in most cases, Finally, I again commend to members the answered specifically and succinctly. I thank implementation of a genuine committee those departmental officers. system within this Parliament. That committee system was certainly not experienced within The problem of policy-laden answers can the operation of Estimates Committee C. A be overcome by giving Estimates committees genuine committee system would involve the the power to question directly departmental implementation of the changes recommended officers, as is the case in other parliamentary by Opposition members and espoused within jurisdictions. Alternatively, Ministers should this Parliament as far back as 1983, when more seriously embrace the spirit of the Terry White raised to a great height of public committee system and seek to provide consciousness the issue of parliamentary information in response to questions rather committees. I totally reject the criticism by the 13 June 1995 12462 Legislative Assembly honourable member for Mount Coot-tha of the Another important new initiative by the way in which Opposition members conducted Government this year is in student behaviour themselves. Government members ran out of management. We all know that, for teachers, time and showed a clear lack of preparation; this is one of their most vexing problems. It is they are a disgrace to the committee system. a problem that stops teachers from teaching Time expired. effectively, or so they would say. The Ms SPENCE (Mount Gravatt) Government has responded to the problem by (4.39 p.m.): I was very pleased to take part in allocating $2.5m to student behaviour Estimates Committee C this year. Unlike the management. That money will allow the member for Clayfield, as expressed in those Government to employ 34 additional teachers very petty comments, I found the Estimates and other support staff in our schools and in committee procedure provided ample our school support centres and also to opportunities for both Government members produce material to assist teachers in student and the Opposition to scrutinise the budgets behaviour management. In recognition that of those three Government departments in teaching is a stressful occupation, this year an great detail. amount has been set aside for occupational stress management and health strategies to If honourable members look at this year's reduce the negative impact of stress. report of Estimate Committee C, they will see that it is a very substantive document. I would More than $3m has been allocated to the like to congratulate the chairperson of our Shaping of the Future initiative for State and committee, the member for Mount Coot-tha, non-State schools. Of course, that amount and the research directors on the time and funds the important Government initiative to effort that they put into investigations for the ensure that literacy and numeracy levels are members of the committee and also in the improved in our State and non-State schools. detailed writing of the report. If honourable That money will be allocated primarily to the members look at the report for Estimate primary schools in the coming year. Committee C and see the great range of The committee discussed in detail the issues covered in each of the three involvement of P & Cs in schools and the Government departments, they would have to recent TV campaign, for which $200,000 was believe that, indeed, Estimates committees allocated. Really, that is quite a small outlay provide ample opportunity for a great level of for an advertising campaign to try to get scrutiny of those Government departments. I parents involved in their parents and citizens think that the idea of timing the questions and groups. I believe that most members are very answers has resulted in both the questioner supportive of that type of campaign, as they and the Minister keeping their answers and are of P & C groups generally. questions very specific, and that has been a I was surprised that the Opposition good idea. spokesperson for Education, the member for I would like to confine my comments to Merrimac, was critical of the Education Views the Estimates for the Education portfolio magazine. In his qualifying report, he said that because, this year, that is the one in which I it was a blatant Labor propaganda piece took the greatest interest. Indeed, the merely because it had an article about Barry committee found that there was a 7.9 per cent Jones, who was talking about some scientific increase in Education from last year's matter. On that very fragile basis, the expenditure by the Government, making Opposition spokesperson has sought to call Education the second biggest-spending this distinguished—— portfolio by the Government this year. The Time expired. Estimates committee took much time in questioning the Minister on the new initiatives Mr QUINN (Merrimac) (4.44 p.m.): In in the education area. In the few minutes I rising to speak about the report of Estimates have remaining to me, I will go through some Committee C, firstly I make some general of them. One of the important initiatives that statements. The Portfolio Program Statements the Government intends to undertake this year are a significant advance on what we had last is the Schools Revival Program. An amount of year. Members would remember that, last $34.1m has been budgeted this coming year year, we had Budget Paper No. 2 and then an to build four new high schools, three primary additional document was supplied—in this schools and also to refurbish many schools in case, by the Department of Education—and our State. The School Refurbishment Program one had to meld the two together to try to sort intends to spend $10m this year on out where they matched and where they did maintenance and minor capital works in our not match and then come up with a schools. reasonable assumption. What Treasury has Legislative Assembly 12463 13 June 1995 done this time has certainly meant that process, that the question needs a direct members could compare last year's Budget answer and that the whole process would flow figures and last year's full-time equivalent much more smoothly. So the issue of the time staffing levels much more reliably with what is restrictions is simply a protective device for proposed in the future. This year, the Portfolio Ministers. Program Statements in themselves were a I have a couple of comments to make in significant advance. There was some difficulty relation to the Estimates for the Education in trying to make comparisons with staffing Department. The member for Mount Gravatt levels and so on, but I think as time goes on mentioned Education Views. My query and my and those bugs are ironed out we will have a reservations about Education Views are not more meaningful set of documents upon that all of it contains party political advertising which we can make accurate comparisons and material but that occasionally, for whatever assumptions on how the Government is reason, it lapses. I asked the Minister about proposing to spend taxpayers' money in the an editorial policy. One would think that, in future. relation to such a very important document The second point I would like to make is that incorporates the Education Gazette—the that, by and large, from looking at all the official Government publication to all Estimates committees in operation, from my teachers—there would be an editorial policy on view, there seems to be an abuse of the time exactly what can and cannot be put in. limits during which Ministers have to answer However, there appears to be nothing. The questions. In fact, sometimes the first two and Minister's guarantee that he would not a half minutes was taken up with a policy countenance such material being placed in perspective of the question, giving the history Education Views is simply not good enough. of why it has occurred, giving the history of the We cannot have a Minister saying, "I will Government's involvement and why it has guarantee. I will read every copy before it goes done what it has done, and then at the very to every school." That is not the way the end—the last 10 or 15 seconds—members Minister ought to be running a department, received the partial facts or figures that they which has a $2.6 billion a year Budget. required rather than the whole lot in one go. Time expired. Rather than coming to the substance of the question and giving the answer immediately, Mr FENLON (Greenslopes) (4.49 p.m.): the time limit has been used by Ministers as a Estimates committee reports make very protective device. interesting reading. In reading the report for Estimates Committee C, my first action was to The other protective device that is in flick to the "Reservations" section at the back operation on the Government side is the of the report. I read that with interest. The dorothy dix question. We had the farcical more I read, the more I realised that it spectacle of the Minister for Employment, consisted of a fine tribute to the fiscal integrity Training and Industrial Relations sitting there of this Budget. In terms of Reservations, the with the question typed on one piece of paper, best thing that the Opposition could come up reading line by line, making sure that the with was that it did not like the questions that questioner did not make a mistake and then the Government members asked and it did very slowly and deliberately turning over and not like the answers that the Ministers gave to there, behold, is the answer to the question. It the Government members. How absolutely was quite a scene to see the Minister's public pathetic! That was the length and breadth of officials behind him smiling wryly at the the Opposition's Reservations about this very, spectacle that was unfolding before them. very fine Budget and the very fine work that Mr Santoro: They were embarrassed. the Ministers in question have done in terms Mr QUINN: They were quite of presenting this Budget. I am very pleased embarrassed that there was this prepared that this fine Budget has been endorsed by question. Incidentally, much to the mirth of the Opposition. No fiscal flaws or deficiencies everyone in the room, the chairman of the were found in it, and I am very pleased about committee got lost and the Minister had to that. I have read in detail the Ministers' correct the chairman. That is an abuse that responses and presentations, and every word ought to be eliminated from the system. It can uttered by them proves the integrity of the be eliminated from the system only by Budget. eliminating the time restriction upon the In recent years, we have seen enormous process. If we took away the time restriction, changes to the TAFE system and its budget. then the Minister and the officials would realise The net result is a doubling of the number of quickly that it is futile to try to drag on the classroom hours available to students in 13 June 1995 12464 Legislative Assembly

Queensland. The Government is putting its number of absconders and categories of money where its mouth is and it is providing absconders from the John Oxley Hospital. The training for the young people who need it. The Minister refused to answer that question on Government is meeting the modern needs of the basis that it was not related to the Budget society and confronting the challenge of Estimates. I maintained that it concerned training people to compete in the Asian Queensland Health's Mental Health Program. markets and so on. Not only have we seen an Part of the expenditure by that hospital is on enormous quantitative change to the TAFE returning absconders, which is a very costly system but also a massive qualitative change. exercise. The Minister produced some The TAFE system has been reoriented statistics when they suited him, but he was not towards serving the marketplace and meeting able to provide those statistics even on notice. the needs of the consumer, fundamentally industry. It is providing trained workers to meet Within the four-point plan which the industry's needs. TAFE's reorientation in Government has endeavoured to make much conjunction with the qualitative changes that it of—that is, the $181m over two and three has undergone have produced enormous years—the $64m for addressing waiting lists changes within the TAFE system. This Budget was the subject of some questioning. We enables the TAFE system to deliver enormous learnt that $9m of that total was being spent levels of service throughout the State and at on attacking the waiting list backlog, that is, locations at which they are needed. $3m a year for three years. Additionally, $35m was allocated for the Hospital Access Pool, With respect to the modern requirements that is, $12m a year over three years. That of the system, the Minister drew attention to really means that a total of $15m is being the newsletter Sectorwide that is distributed allocated to a direct attack on waiting lists. The through the TAFE system and the balance of that money—$20m—was allocated department. The Minister tabled various to community-based services, which although copies of similar newsletters prepared within well meaning do not have any direct or short- industry. It was clear from those tabled term effect. All we are seeing out of this documents that the approach that is now waiting list plan is $15m a year. The $3m for being taken by the department is modern and the attack on waiting list backlogs represents professional. The approach reflects best an increase of only $1m on top of the $2m industry practice and will prepare people for provided about two months ago in the current working in industry. financial year for a similar process. Some Time expired. $12m was allocated for the Hospital Access Mr HORAN (Toowoomba South) Pool, which we ascertained through (4.55 p.m.): In joining the debate on the report questioning was really only another name for of Estimates Committee C, at the outset I case mix. In this financial year, $7.5m was thank Louise Hepworth and the staff of the provided under case mix for six months. In this committee for their research and hard work. financial year, under the much-vaunted four- point plan, only $12m is provided for case mix During the Estimates committee hearing, for the entire 12 months. my first request to the Minister for Health was for a breakdown of the $270m increase in the Questioning also revealed that Medicare Health budget. In his answer, the Minister Pool B funding, which was $27m in 1993-94, broke down the budget into various dropped dramatically to $8.3m in the current components, such as new service initiatives, financial year and is likely to be $9.7m in the new Treasury initiatives, Commonwealth next financial year. Just prior to last Christmas, programs, superannuation, awards and so on. the Treasurer provided $24.5m to Queensland The total for those areas was $258.5m. The Health. That funding was made up of a $17m answer was incomplete, and I would like to loan to cover the expected case mix funding. know what the balance of the $270m was for. We now see that Queensland Health actually My request was a simple and straightforward received an amount that was $9m short. That one. The problem was that throughout the is a sign of mismanagement, a lack of Estimates committee hearing the Minister negotiating skills and judgment. endeavoured to avoid at all costs having to During the Estimates committee hearings, ask for any question to be put on notice. That we examined enterprise bargaining and how it sort of question should have been taken on related to the car and communication notice; the answer required detail and packages that have been announced for staff accuracy and concerned a basic part of the specialists and medical superintendents. That whole budget. is outside of enterprise bargaining and During the Estimates committee hearings, certainly opens up the field for other people I asked for some statistics in relation to the within Queensland Health who feel Legislative Assembly 12465 13 June 1995 disenchanted and want additional salaries or questions at the hearing of Estimates wages. For example, I refer to rural and Committee C. I wanted to ask questions at remote area nurses or dentists working in that hearing about the purchase of a building regions where there is a shortage of staff and known as Newspaper Place at Maroochydore a lot of discontent with packages. They have for a future TAFE facility. My concerns relating seen another group gain access to substantial to this matter were to ensure that the building increases outside of the enterprise bargaining would prove to be adequate and that the process. However, there were certain trade- value to the Government would be offs. The other very worrying thing about those commensurate with the price paid. During the packages is that there is no allocation for the hearing, I noted that the project was not cost of running the cars, fuel, repairs and included in the 1994-95 capital works budget maintenance. That will have to come out of and questioned whether this was a sudden the regional health authority budgets. That is priority and whether the funds were transferred another impost on hospitals, which will have to from elsewhere. I was advised by the director- cut their budgets to find this unfunded money. general that the need for the facility was As to corporate services—$15m was identified following a detailed resource needs deleted for the 1994-95 budget in what was analysis. I was advised that the facility had an obviously a camouflaged attempt to cover up original budget of $5.3m. part of the costs of corporate services. I did The original Lands valuation for not think that the answers to my questions in Newspaper Place at Maroochydore, a former that regard were sufficient. We were told that newspaper factory, was $4m to $4.5m. I they were just allocating it to other programs. wonder whether at that stage an estimate was Time expired. made of the refurbishment cost of that very solid building, which would be quite expensive Mr PYKE (Mount Ommaney) (5 p.m.): I to change because it is a prefabricated am pleased to rise in support of the proposed concrete construction. The refurbishment and expenditure for the Departments of the valuation provided by Lands would have Employment, Vocational Education, Training already blown the budget that was provided and Industrial Relations, Education and for this building, yet the final accepted offer of Health. I express my support for the Estimates $5.75m was considerably higher than that committee process and reiterate the valuation. That alone saw the department comments of my colleague the member for beyond the budget by half a million dollars, Mount Coot-tha that this is a continuation of when there was still time to consider another the vital Fitzgerald reform processes—opening option. I wonder whether at that point there up the Queensland parliamentary processes was a very careful consideration of the and permitting Parliament to scrutinise refurbishment cost—which was not departments and Ministers. I endorse the insignificant at $2.35m. I note that Mr Elder is member for Merrimac's comments about the in the Chamber. He was quoted on the front Portfolio Program Statements. I believe that page of the Sunshine Coast Daily as being they were a significant advance for the very happy about this building costing Estimates committee process this year. $8.1m—a facility that was budgeted to cost The three departments within the ambit of $5.3m. Estimates Committee C are major In the 1995-96 budget, the estimated departments. I did not note any major cost of the project has blown out to $10m. criticisms of the Government's administration This is nearly double the original estimate. of those departments. I take that as a ringing That was my main reason for bringing this endorsement of the Goss Government. I matter to the attention of the Estimates believe that all members of Estimates committee. I wonder why the cost of Committee C participated in an appropriate refurbishment has gone from $2.3m, which is and reasonable manner and that all members a considerable amount of money, to of Parliament, including those on the something like $4m. Some extra funding has committee, had ample opportunity to subject been provided there. I do not know whether the departments and their Ministers to very full the department has agreed to pay estate scrutiny. I am very pleased to endorse the agent commission on this purchase. I ask the Estimates committee process on behalf of the Minister to advise me on that point. Mount Ommaney electorate. I believe that other options were available. Mr LAMING (Mooloolah) (5.01 p.m.): I Alternatives were put forward to the state at the outset that I am indebted to the department. There were other sites in the area member for Clayfield and to the committee which would have been, in many instances, chairman for giving me the opportunity to ask better for a purpose-built structure and which 13 June 1995 12466 Legislative Assembly would not have needed to be rebuilt. A total of an important role in the school community. $4m was the estimated cost of those Recently, I attended the New Farm State alternatives, which is less than half of what School fete. appears to be the ultimate cost of the course Mr Santoro interjected. of action that was decided upon. I wonder whether enough time was taken to examine all Mr BEATTIE: It is. I take the interjection the options rather than rush into the purchase from the honourable member. That school of Newspaper Place. Was this a hasty decision used to be in his electorate. New Farm State which had to be followed through later? Was it School is one of the most multicultural in the prestige of buying a building in the Queensland. I have the honour of Maroochydore CBD? Newspaper Place is very representing it in this Parliament. It must be difficult to access. When leaving the building remembered that, in a school such as that, one cannot turn south, and it is very difficult to the first language of the majority of the access the building from the north. I know that students is not English. because I worked in the building for nearly 15 Mr Santoro: It's a real "United Nations", years. Was it a case of bad planning as to isn't it? what sort of site was required, or was it bad Mr BEATTIE: It is a real United Nations implementation of planning? school. Because that degree of diversity Mr Santoro: Do you think it might have exists, it is only through advertising campaigns been a bit of both? such as the Minister is running on television that parents who send their children to schools Mr LAMING: I take the interjection from such as the New Farm State School know that the member for Clayfield—a bit of both: bad they are welcome—— planning and bad implementation. The taxpayers would like to know whether this was Mr Santoro: If they don't understand the best decision that might have been taken English, how can they understand the ads? for this purpose. Mr BEATTIE: Very simply because they Mr BEATTIE (Brisbane Central) are members of a community in which some (5.06 p.m.): I want to make some brief members do speak English. In any event, I remarks on the report of Estimates Committee stated that English was not their first C. I turn first to education. While watching this language; I did not say that they did not speak committee perform its duty, I was pleased to English. hear the comments by the Minister about Mr Santoro: No, the children. encouraging parents to participate in P & Cs. I Mr BEATTIE: As to the children—I noted that during those hearings the stated that English was not their first Opposition spokesman raised some questions language, but that does not mean that they about the budget for the television advertising do not speak English. Last week, I had the campaign encouraging parents to participate honour of being present at the New Farm in those bodies. I believe that not only is that a State School for the presentation of a number worthwhile advertising campaign but also an of awards and badges. I saw some of the important one. We are trying to encourage performances of the students of that school, parents to participate in P & Cs in a particularly a very touching contribution by a meaningful way and to join with principals and young Aboriginal girl, who talked about her teachers to help run schools in a much more hero being the young athlete Cathy Freeman. community-based manner. It was very touching to see that we have When I first was elected to Parliament, I encouraged students such as that young lady had the West End school in my electorate. to become a leader in the school system. Unfortunately, that school is no longer in my I am pleased that the Minister is electorate. It was a difficult task to encourage continuing with the School Refurbishment parents of certain ethnic origin to participate in Program. The Windsor State School and the the activities of the school. Greek Australians New Farm State School are among the who had lived here for some time were very schools in my electorate that have benefited keen participants in the P & C and played a from that program and will continue to do so in very constructive role, but there were parents the future. Another school that will benefit from of other ethnic origins—and I will not the program is the Wilston State School, which embarrass them by referring to them by name has its seventy-fifth anniversary coming up this afternoon—who did not feel confident very shortly. I congratulate the school on its enough to participate in that P & C. We must fine achievements. The Kelvin Grove State embrace those members of the community High School, the Kelvin Grove State School, and encourage them to participate and play the Brisbane Central State School, the Legislative Assembly 12467 13 June 1995

Fortitude Valley State School and quite a concession to that is welcomed. The ease with number of Catholic schools and private which honourable members may now address schools in my area contribute very significantly the Budget papers is greatly enhanced. to the education of young people in this State Indeed, it is analogous to being able to have and have done an excellent job. the waters of the Red Sea roll back and walk This Minister has already made his mark dry shod out of exile into a land of in the education field. My education enlightenment. However, I have to say that, community is very supportive of him. Recently, even at that moment in biblical history, there I hosted a barbecue at Parliament House for a would have been someone like Mr Santoro number of teachers and P & C standing by the beach, putting out a press representatives. They were very supportive of release saying that he was not going the role of this Minister. anywhere until he got a compass and a cut lunch! It is that sort of ungenerous, predictable In the minute left I also want to put on fault-finding that one sees reflected in the record my congratulations to the Health Reservations and, indeed, in the course of the Minister, who I think has done incredibly good debate. work in relation to the Royal Brisbane Hospital. I am delighted to see his initiatives in cutting Mr Santoro interjected. waiting lists and the provision of extra Mr FOLEY: It is just difficult to grasp the operations at that hospital. logic of the member for Clayfield. In one Mr Horan interjected. breath he complained that the Government anticipated questions from committee Mr BEATTIE: He has reopened two members and then in the next breath he wards and has provided for 2,700 extra complained that the Government did not surgical procedures and an extra 200 anticipate questions from the member for operations. Opposition members are never Mount Coot-tha. Really, his logic is so difficult satisfied. An extra 200 operations and an to grasp. The simple fact of the matter is that extra 2,700 surgical procedures, and they are he is driven to these outlandish, ungenerous, still not happy! All they want to do is whinge fault-finding statements and he is driven to try and moan. My constituents are happy to have to justify it by three pieces of evidence which those extra resources, which will cut the he cites in the Reservations. Firstly, he waiting lists by 20 per cent in the short term. I complains of a belated answer, which was want to put on record my congratulations to given in respect to the workers' compensation the Minister for obtaining those funds and for premium paid by the department during the taking the initiatives that he has because it is course of the committee hearing itself. money well spent. Secondly, driving himself ever further into a Time expired. path of embarrassment, he complains in the Hon. M. J. FOLEY (Yeronga—Minister statement of Reservations, as indeed Mr for Employment, Training and Industrial Laming has done in the course of the debate Relations) (5.12 p.m.): The debate is about today, that— the appropriation of over $1.278 billion to help "No-one knew, or appeared to know, build best practices in Queensland workplaces why the department had incurred through DEVETIR. Let me say at the outset expenditure of $8.5 million on a campus that I think the process adopted by the at Maroochydore." Parliament this year and last year has done Mr Santoro: Well, they didn't. the department a lot of good. The discipline adopted by the Parliament has translated into Mr FOLEY: When the honourable a discipline within the Executive, but I think member says that no-one knew, the only that has meant that senior management and people to whom he is referring are himself and line management now have a much better Mr Laming. They should have bothered to idea of the funds which are being spent, the read the answer. These people opposite are purposes for which they are being spent, and good at asking questions, but their problem is changes from year to year. that they do not read the answers. I will read the answer that was tabled for the member. It Turning to the process whereby the states— Parliament addresses it—this is the fourth occasion that I have participated as Minister in "With respect to the facility offered by Ray Budget Estimates debates and the second White at a quoted price of $3M to $4M two are light-years ahead of the first two. The which was referred to in the letter tabled Portfolio Program Statements made available by Mr Laming, the following points are are indeed very helpful, and Mr Quinn's frank relevant: 13 June 1995 12468 Legislative Assembly

The proposed building did not exist, nor The other achievements—and I am had it been designed. pleased that the committee highlighted the The proposed building was not suited to achievements in its report—focused on our specialised training requirements endeavours to deal with the issue of class associated with modern vocational sizes, and the Queensland Teachers Union education and training delivery has given fulsome praise to the Government methodologies. for its endeavours in reducing class sizes not only in the primary school sector but also in The facility did not include the price of the the secondary school sector. land which was listed at $933,660. Nor did it include furnishings and fit out, Funds are also made available for the valuations, inspections, purchase continuation of our programs Helping P & Cs searches or commission. with the Basics and Computers in Schools, particularly in primary schools, and also the In short, this proposal did not meet TAFE extension of information technology through Queensland's Client Request Brief which our new school information management was previously provided to the systems. Furthermore, a commitment is given Administrative Services Department." to the provision of adequate resources to So the honourable members simply did not enable schools to deal with the particular read the document. They made reference in a needs of disabled students, those with confused and confusing way to memoranda intellectual disabilities and so on. As has been concerning TAFE which were never put to the mentioned in the debate this afternoon, there committee and their inferences in that regard is also a particular initiative of the Government are truly confused. with respect to assisting teachers to address the equity issue for students that comes In short, the members opposite are through appropriate responses to the unable to back up their outlandish claims. The unacceptable behaviours that are extent to which they refer to three matters is utterly without substance. The expenditure of demonstrated by a very tiny minority of close to $1.3 billion in this area is directed at students that impact detrimentally upon the combating unemployment and building best classroom situation and the quality of practices in Queensland workplaces. education that can be provided in those circumstances. The Budget also featured the Time expired. Government's clear commitment to the Hon. D. J. HAMILL (Ipswich—Minister implementation of the Wiltshire reforms, with for Education) (5.17 p.m.): At the outset, I some $52m now having been allocated to thank the committee for its analysis of yet implement those curriculum reforms another record Education budget under the recommended by Wiltshire. Goss Government. A provision of $2.6 billion is While I am heaping praise, there are a a very substantial investment in our State's couple of points that I would like to make in future, and this Government has been the interests of completeness. I do not wish to steadfast in honouring its election be too much of a pedant in relation to the commitments—the commitments given in committee's report. Nevertheless, I would like it 1989 and the commitments given in 1992—to placed on the record that, under the list of underscore not only our rhetoric regarding the witnesses who contributed to the hearing importance of education but also cold, hard which is contained in the transcript of the cash and resources in our schools. proceedings of Estimates Committee C, The Estimates process enabled us to mention is made of a Mr Mike "Kelly". That is focus on the additional teaching numbers that an error caused by circumstances outside the have been provided to our schools, the fact committee's control. It should read Mr Mike that a very significant capital budget was being Keily, the Director of Finance from the delivered providing new schools—new primary Department of Education. schools, new secondary schools and new While I am on the subject of preschools—and, as well as that, additional completeness—some questions were asked funds for the maintenance of our existing during the committee hearings regarding stock of buildings to enable them to be some disparity between the PPS of converted to meet the needs of the curriculum Administrative Services and that of Education of the 1990s. Another feature of this Budget, over the issue of cleaners. I went back to of course, was the record funding made establish what was the actual situation. The available to non-Government schools, which is brief that I had from the department had something that is very greatly appreciated by confused the issue of full-time equivalents with the non-Government school sector. actual bodies—something which has Legislative Assembly 12469 13 June 1995 happened in the past in relation to other was no opportunity to have any input when issues. I wish to advise the committee that the the Opposition was in Government. 4,160 people—they are people who are Mr Hamill: I was here and I remember it. transferred—equates to about 1,000 fewer in terms of full-time equivalents. Mr ELDER: The Minister remembers it clearly, and there it is, articulated by someone I also raise the issue that the Opposition who was here. Quite simply, over the years we took such umbrage at, which was Education have been in Government and refined the Views. I find it quite objectionable that in its process the Opposition has had ample Reservations the Opposition seems to think opportunity to have input in the Estimates this is an organ of Labor Party propaganda. committees and the debate on the Budget in Certainly in one article Barry Jones is quoted this Chamber. as saying that Labor would narrowly win the next Federal election, but the next paragraph I would like to answer a few of the points out that the editor seemed to question Reservations raised in terms of Health. The that statement. What is more important is to first one relates to the query about note that the gentleman was actually giving components of an expenditure of $270m praise to the expansion of information adding up to only $250m. I was asked a five- technology in the article. He specifically raised part question and was expected to answer it in the issue of global information links in the City three minutes. All the Opposition had to do of Ipswich which have already been connected was ask a second question and I would have to schools. He says that there needs to be a gone on to outline the $13.428m, which would national information policy to set out rules for have brought the figure up to $270m. The cross-media ownership and praises Griffith Opposition rolled on to the next subject University School of Computing Information because that was its game. It would ask a five- Technology. part question and expect it to be answered at once. The figure was $270m, and the The author makes some telling points Opposition had its opportunity in the Estimates which I thought would be of bipartisan interest. hearing to ask the second question but did For instance, he says it would be madness to not. take John Howard for granted; that is certainly a bipartisan comment. He says that John The claimed rewording of the Howard's greatest strength is also his enhancement pool was introduced for the last weakness: he stands for decent, conservative six months of 1994-95—and the Opposition English-speaking families, but is unable to should take note of that. Phase 2 of Casemix come to terms with the unknown. If one looks commences in the 1995-96 financial year. The at his record on constitutional reform one will enhancement pool has been replaced and see the accuracy of that statement. extended through the introduction of a Casemix incentive strategy. The Queensland Time expired. Government has set aside $63.9m over the Hon. J. P. ELDER (Capalaba—Minister next three financial years which, in relative for Health) (5.23 p.m.): It is amazing that terms, represents an increase in funding of sometimes we have to put up with the $18.9m compared with the service petulance of the Opposition in the Estimate enhancement pool allocated over the last committees, and in its response to the period. I find it amazing. The Opposition had Estimates debates it still portrays that petulant its questions answered, but obviously in an behaviour. I commend the member for Mount election year had to find something to criticise Coot-tha, who chaired the committee and bring up as a Reservation in relation to hearings, for her patience and tolerance in the Estimates Committee C hearings. way she handled the Opposition in the It was claimed that the allocation of Pool Estimates committee, because I know at times B from the Commonwealth has declined from she was sorely tested. Sometimes the $27m to $8.3m. Annual adjustments are Opposition does need a history lesson, related to the change in public provision because the history of this place is that provided by the States and Territories in the Opposition members did not have the chance current year compared to public provision in of questioning the Budget or putting the 1990-91. Pool B payments to Queensland Budget under scrutiny in the 32 years the have been falling in recent years, although Opposition was in Government. At least we public hospital activity has increased. However, have put in place—— it should be noted that Queensland has never Mr Littleproud: Were you here then? received $27m from Pool B. That amount may Mr ELDER: I have read them, my fellow; have been an estimate on the expected there is no need to ask me about them. There receipt earlier on in the period of the 13 June 1995 12470 Legislative Assembly agreement when it was uncertain what other thank the staff of the committee, especially States could be doing and what effects the the research director, Karen Sampford, and private sector may have had on Pool B, but the research officer, Helen Angelos, for their the method of using Pool B funds is efforts in assisting the committee in its work. In complicated and depends on a lot of factors particular they prepared some briefing notes beyond Queensland Health's control. It really for the committee, but by and large committee is related to activity levels, changes in private members relied on the Portfolio Program health insurance participation and what other Statements provided as part of the Budget States are doing. The methodology in relation documents. to it is up for discussion at the council meeting The Estimates process, as a number of this week. It is very complex and dependent members have already indicated, is in its on a number of factors. second year, which has, I think, exposed both The Opposition went on about the strengths and weaknesses in the process. To communication packages and the car some extent there has again been an equal package, which obviously it is critical of, opportunity this year for Opposition members although Opposition members have never to ask numerous questions of Ministers. That said whether they support the member for is without question an opportunity which, prior Charters Towers in his criticism of the move. to this Government's innovation in Estimates The cars and other initiatives are to service hearings, was never available to Oppositions and assist rural doctors and others. There are in the past. Previous speakers have made that also remote nurse packages in place, as the point eloquently. It is clear that, regardless of Opposition knows. It again brought that up whether Opposition members stick to the incorrectly today, because we are addressing Estimates or not—and in many cases they do the concerns of remote and rural nurses. I not—under this process Ministers and their want to hear from the Opposition: does it departments are more open to scrutiny than actually support or distance itself from the has ever been the case in the past. comments of the member for Charters Towers Parliament has the opportunity, through in relation to the cars and the questioning from both Government and telecommunications packages for doctors in Opposition members in particular, to be better rural and metropolitan areas? informed and make the Executive more Mr Horan: You answer the questions accountable for the expenditure by the here. Government and its proposed Estimates. Mr ELDER: No, the member will not As previous Chairs of the committees answer. He takes the cowardly approach, but have indicated, this process requires a he will not come up front and say whether he measure of goodwill. I am pleased to report supports it or not. The simple fact is that cars that by and large members of the committee, and telecommunications make up around including members of the Opposition, $3.3m of a total $10m allocated in a package demonstrated goodwill towards the process. in which a whole lot of other initiatives address We approached these hearings with a the needs of medical specialists and measure of flexibility and allowed Opposition superintendents in remote and rural areas. I members ample opportunity to ask the hear the Opposition silence on that issue, questions they wished to ask. They will no which condemns it. I will take it to task on that doubt mention some limitations on the time point, week in week out, in this place. periods allowed but, by and large, if questions were properly prepared and the right questions Time expired. were asked and strategic issues dealt with, Report adopted. Opposition members as well as the Government members of the committee had ample opportunity to ask questions. Estimates Committee D We again programmed the hearings so Report that the different programs of each The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr department were dealt with in turn. That Briskey): The question is— seems to be an effective process. I am not sure whether other committees use it, but it "That the report of Estimates certainly proved effective in our case. In Committee D be adopted". particular, on this occasion we allowed that Mr WELFORD (Everton) (5.28 p.m.): As process of turning from one program of a the Chairman of Estimates Committee D I am department to another to be guided largely by pleased to report on the outcome of the the choice of Opposition members. Whatever deliberations of that Committee. Firstly, let me criticisms other members of the Opposition Legislative Assembly 12471 13 June 1995 may make about the Estimates process, I do to answer a question. I suggested that that not think members of the Opposition who were should be reduced, and after discussion the part of Estimates Committee D can have any committee came up with the suggestion in the real complaint with the latitude that was report that that should be reduced to two allowed to them in directing the questions to minutes, with a right to appeal to the chairman the departments examined by this committee. if the committee member wanted the answer The other factor was that we started each expanded or if the Minister wanted to expand. department at a specified time so that there I made that suggestion after two years' would be no confusion about when Ministers experience, because sometimes the answer and their staff needed to be ready, and again that is given is much more than is asked for—it that resolution of the committee proved to be is a bit superfluous. That could be because effective. The committee set its own limits the Minister feels rather expansive on the day allowing three hours for each department and, or it could be that the Minister feels pretty as I said, I think by and large that proved to be comfortable with the question and does not a satisfactory process. In most cases the time want to get on to another one. was shared in a way which allowed Opposition I found that one Minister, Mr Burns, members significantly more time in terms of a always likes to speak quite a bit. He would proportion of those three hours than then call on one of his senior officers to Government members had. expand, and they always used up the three I should thank the Minister for Tourism, minutes. I think it was unnecessary in some Sport and Racing, Mr Gibbs; the Minister for cases. The other suggestion of mine in the Family Services and Aboriginal and Islander report is that the time limit for a shadow Affairs, Ms Warner; and the Minister for Minister should be extended to 15 minutes. It Environment and Heritage, Ms Robson, for was suggested in our report that it should be a being very cooperative in the committee maximum of 15. The member for Everton has process. made the comment that perhaps some of the contributions being made here today do not The two points made at the end of the warrant that. I suggest that if Ministers knew committee's report regarding the amount of that they had 15 minutes in which to make a time given for answers to questions and the speech they would spend much more time amount of time speakers are allowed in this talking about matters of substance within their place are made by way of suggestion only. If portfolio. questions are going to be multipart, then it may well be that Ministers need three minutes With the little time left to me, I now want to properly answer them; two minutes would to address one particular aspect of Family not be enough. Similarly, having regard to Services that I am still pursuing. I spent quite a some of the responses to the Estimates deal of time questioning the Minister for Family debate that we have heard in this place today, Services on intellectual disability services. one would have to question whether in fact 15 Since talking to her about that and getting her minutes would provide some members with an answers, I have made further contact with opportunity to make a better contribution than people who are associated with those with they already make in only five. intellectual disabilities, and I would have to say that I am a little concerned about some of the Time expired. things I am finding. First of all, when I asked Mr LITTLEPROUD (Western Downs) the Minister whether she had been consulting (5.33 p.m.): On behalf of the Opposition, I with parents out there, she responded by want to make some comments relative to the saying that the department desired the chairman. I commend him on his involvement of groups such as—and she listed chairmanship of Estimates Committee D. I Australian Parents Advocacy, Queensland agree with some of the comments he made Parents of People with Disabilities, and regarding our contributions as a committee. I Queensland Advocacy Incorporated. think we tried hard to accommodate all the Today I spoke to representatives of ideas put forward. That is reflected in the parents of residents of the Basil Stafford report, and is to be commended. Centre who told me that these organisations I want to expand on some of the are representative of public servants, who are comments just made by the member for very adept at getting public funding from the Everton regarding the suggestions at the end Federal Government to promote the of our report. It was I who raised the issue of institutional reform that is part and parcel of the question and answer process. Honourable this particular department. They complain that members would know that at the present time when the parents and friends groups the Minister is allowed three minutes in which associated these various centres apply for 13 June 1995 12472 Legislative Assembly funding, they get none. Yet they are the departmental staff were at all times keen to people who are putting forward the opposite ensure that committee members were case, that for the retention of Government provided with as detailed information as owned caring centres for people with possible in response to the questions put to intellectual disabilities. I have been following them. The non-Government members took full that through very carefully. advantage of their opportunity to question I was also astounded to find today that Ministers and departmental staff on the with the closure of the Basil Stafford Centre proposed expenditure of the respective fewer than one in eight parents of residents at departments. that centre can report any sort of consultation I would like to comment, however, on the whatsoever with the department. I find that criticisms by a number of non-Government rather alarming. One of the people told me members of the various Estimates committees that they had rung an officer of the Office of that there is insufficient time allowed to ask the the Cabinet and that officer had said that she number of questions that they want to ask. was very much aware of all the claims of One has only to look at the Hansards of the consultation that was going on and was various committees to see that so much time surprised to hear those sorts of claims made. is wasted by some committee members Yet these parents and friends meetings had asking the same question in a dozen different discovered that the consultation had not ways. When they do not get the answer they occurred to the extent expected. I am want they think they will get the answer if they concerned about that. pursue it from a different angle or from a The other suggestion from these parents dozen different angles. Those committee supports my view that there will be a lot more members who fantasise that the hearings money spent on these particular services, with resemble a courtroom and they are an increase of something like $8.6m to conducting a cross-examination have only $14.8m on the Challinor Centre alone. This themselves to blame if they cannot get more was pointed out by the Minister. The parents of their questions in. say that that money could be much better I am fortunate to be a member of both spent not on moving these people out into the the Department of Tourism, Sport and Racing community to places where they might not get Ministerial Committee and the Environment the necessary services, but by increasing the and Heritage Ministerial Committee, and I was staffing ratio within that centre. Instead of very interested in the proposed expenditures having one staffer for six residents there could outlined in the Portfolio Program Statements be two staffers for six residents. The staff for these departments. The Gold Coast region would be able to provide much better care. relies heavily on the tourism industry. While a They came up with plenty of examples of number of marketing strategies by the people having been sent out into the Department of Tourism, Sport and Racing community under the guise of institutional promote the Gold Coast, it is pleasing to see reform and having been subjected to abuse. the emphasis that is being placed on regional Some of that is being investigated by the CJC tourism Statewide. The QTTC has and the police. They have documentary and representatives on 14 regional tourist photographic evidence of the poor state of organisations, and plays a vital role in the health of some of these people who have had promotion of all of Queensland to the to be returned to the centre. This is something interstate and overseas markets. It was that we as a society have to look at very particularly interesting to hear the Minister closely. I will be continuing to press the outline the continued development and Minister on the philosophy that is currently promotion of Aboriginal and Islander tourism, being invoked. which has been shown to be a tourism product Mrs ROSE (Currumbin) (5.38 p.m.): I am in high demand, particularly in the overseas pleased to support, as a member of Estimates market. Committee D, the report on the Department of One of the greatest achievements of this Tourism, Sport and Racing, the Department of Government has been the doubling of the Family Services and Aboriginal and Islander national park estate in Queensland. The Affairs and the Department of Environment Minister outlined a number of management and Heritage. I acknowledge the assistance of programs and funding allocations to ensure Karen Sampford, the research director for our the proper management of our national parks. committee and Helen Angelos, the research The Minister also set out details of the Good officer. I also acknowledge the contribution by Neighbour Policy, which provides all committee members to the Estimates management plans not only for our protected committee process. The Ministers and their areas but also for neighbouring pasture or Legislative Assembly 12473 13 June 1995 grazing property with the cooperation of the questioning the Government's claim of an 18 landowner and the department. per cent rise in this year's Budget for The Department of Family Services and Environment and Heritage over the budgeted Aboriginal and Islander Estimates of figure for 1994-95. As has been stated, this expenditure were presented by the year's Budget figure actually represents a fall Honourable Anne Warner, who is retiring at of 2 per cent to 3 per cent on the estimated the end of this term. I take this opportunity to actual expenditure for 1994-95. congratulate Anne Warner, who is an effective It should also be pointed out that the and successful Minister, and wish her all the committee and I had problems reconciling a very best for the future. claim by the Minister and her director-general that the Budget provided for 25 extra rangers. The Estimates committees are a good Figures presented on page 19 of the Program opportunity for members to be more Statements showed clearly that the number of conversant with and knowledgeable about the rangers for 1994-95 was 542 and, allowing for number of programs and initiatives that are rangers to be reattributed into the current available through our Government subprogram, the total number of rangers for departments. Once again, I was impressed 1994-95 was 547 and the total number for with the wide-ranging programs that are 1995-96 would be 487. That is a drop of 60 available to assist some of our disadvantaged rangers—not an increase, as the Minister has Queenslanders through the Family Services been claiming. part of the department. During questioning at the Estimates Time expired. committee hearings, the Minister's director- Mr SLACK (Burnett) (5.43 p.m.): Five general, Dr Emerson, referred to base-level minutes is not sufficient time in which to sum funding and implied that the column did not up three hours of Estimates committee accurately reflect the true situation as 25 extra hearings on a particular portfolio. In the case rangers were provided for. Following of Environment and Heritage, it certainly does acknowledgment from the Chair that my not do justice to the importance of the concerns—and I quote him—"are legitimate department. There are several issues that and you are entitled to pursue them", the could be canvassed in the budget allocation question was put on notice. However, despite but, more importantly, if we are to have a Dr Emerson's protesting and implying that it proper assessment and the Estimates was not Environment and Heritage's fault that committee system is to genuinely mean the figures were presented the way they were anything, then we need at least 15 minutes to because the format was followed at the report to this Parliament. direction of Treasury, the answer to the question on notice did not support the Minister As to the system of committees providing or her director-general's argument, but rather for open and accountable Government—I showed clearly that there were 547 rangers in contend that that is a farce. The Minister and 1994-95 and that the total number of ranger her advisers may outline their programs and positions, as per the Budget figures for 1995- the amount of money set aside in the Budget 96, was 487. It could well be that the for that purpose, but it may have little department may increase the number during meaning. The amount allocated in the Budget the year by 25 to 512, but this still represents can vary, and the amount actually spent can a fall of 35 on the 1994-95 figure. So what vary considerably from year to year. does this prove? It proves that the Minister is In the case of the Department of misleading the public. That is obvious, but Environment and Heritage last year, the what can be done about it? Budget estimate was for an expenditure of Another point of contention relates to the $136,725,000, but the actual expenditure is release of the names of people or firms who predicted to be $164,970,000—a difference of acted as consultants to the department. When $28m, which is not an insubstantial figure. questioned and asked to provide consultants' Obviously, the Minister has advanced reasons names, the Minister stated— for this and even talked of this year's actual "We can provide you with that spending being substantially more than that information." allocated. It all seems a little nebulous when the Minister even admits that the budgeted Yet when I received the answer to the figure will not be her department's final figure. question, which was put on notice, the names were not supplied on the basis that— This issue arose as a result of members "Consultants are engaged to carry of the Opposition and conservationists out tasks which may be commercially 13 June 1995 12474 Legislative Assembly

sensitive and therefore inappropriate to Dr CLARK: Obviously, I knew that the disclose." member's response would be, "There was no This Government claims to be open and time." I think that the member for Currumbin accountable and yet, when it comes to the has explained the reason why there was not crunch, it will not deliver. I do not buy the sufficient time. If members had asked their commercial sensitivity argument, as I cannot questions more succinctly, they would certainly imagine a situation in which it should override have had ample opportunity to ask a range of the requirement for the Government agency to questions. be accountable in respect to whom it engages In relation to the questioning of members as consultants and the reasons for which the of the Opposition—I point out, as have other party was engaged. Failing to do so members, their failure to grasp what this automatically leads to the question: what do opportunity is all about in relation to they have to hide? questioning the Estimates. It is frustrating for As to property purchases for national park me to sit through a whole committee purposes—the Minister, in answer to a proceedings and have the member for question on notice, has stated that funds Western Downs ask only one question that expended for national park acquisition in actually related to a dollar amount. In fact, he 1994-95 to date totalled $10,367,000. I find actually said, "I am more interested in activities that figure hard to reconcile as it relates to the than money." He does not seem to realise total area acquired being 535,000 hectares, that money and activities go together and that which includes Springvale, Starcke, Homevale the Budget Estimates committee process is all and Silver Plains. From Government press about exploring the relationship between announcements, I have been led to believe money and activities. However, I trust that that the price paid for Starcke was $4m. members opposite will learn in time. According to the Minister's answers, $4.45m To return to the subject of the Estimates was paid for Silver Plains and Springvale and committee and the Estimates for the a further $3.120m was paid for Homevale. Department of Environment and Heritage— That is a total of $11.57m, without any other adverse comments have been made by the purchases during 1994-95. Although it has to Green Party and some sections of the be acknowledged that the full price may not conservation movement regarding the Budget have been paid for Starcke by the Department allocation for the Department of Environment of Environment and Heritage because all of and Heritage. In response to questions from the land will not go to national parks, we are the committee, the Minister was able to lay to led to believe that Starcke, Silver Plains and rest concerns that the budget for the Springvale were purchases over and above department has decreased this year. So the the Budget allocation for 1994-95. Government's commitment to the environment Surely, then, expenditure allocated for national is seen by an 18 per cent increase in the parks acquisition in the 1994-95 Budget was Budget allocation this year to an amount of misleading as obviously it was not spent on $160.9m. the normal acquisition provided for in the I believe that the fact that the actual 1994-95 Budget, otherwise much more than expenditure for 1994-95 was some $28m the claimed $10,367,656 would have been higher than the Budget allocation of $136.7m spent. in that year is a further indication of the Time expired. Government's commitment, because it reflects mid-year land purchases, such as Starcke and Dr CLARK (Barron River) (5.48 p.m.): I Silver Plains, and funding for the Koala Coast will speak primarily about the Estimates of the Protection Plan. So rather than the Department of Environment and Heritage, but interpretation by the member for Burnett that first I congratulate the Minister and her staff on this is somehow deceiving people as to what is their excellent preparation for the Estimates happening or that some sort of inappropriate committee hearings. In view of that, I would budgetary process is going on, it is an actual also like to put on the record my indication of the commitment of this disappointment, as the Chair of the Government. For example, when unique parliamentary committee which recommended opportunities arise to purchase land, those the Estimates committees, that the member opportunities are seized, rather than the for Burnett did not use the opportunity to ask Minister saying, "I am sorry. Although it is a the Minister even one question about the critical habitat, there is no money." What does Environment section of her portfolio. the Minister do? Quite appropriately, she goes Mr Slack: There was no time. to the Treasurer and gets more funding. I Legislative Assembly 12475 13 June 1995 have no doubt that that is what is going to expected Government members to question happen this year. the Minister more closely regarding the The other issue that I would like to take a Queensland Tourist and Travel Corporation. I few further moments clarifying is the number placed questions on notice in relation to the of national park rangers, to which the member QTTC, but they were ruled out of order. So I for Burnett referred. During the committee now want to talk in depth about the QTTC and proceedings, the Minister and the director- my disappointment over the failure of the general confirmed that those additional 25 Government to provide increased funds for rangers will be employed as part of the new regional bodies in this year's Budget. initiative funding for national park The QTTC was created by the previous management of $12m over three years. It is National Party Government, and it has always unfortunate that that allocation was not seen its primary role as one of promoting specified in the Budget papers. That omission Queensland and, particularly, all of our regions was partly responsible for the confusion that fairly and equitably. However, lately all has not existed on this issue. However, what is not been well in our garden of Queensland; at forgivable is the member for Burnett least that is what I am informed by many pretending that somehow there were 60 people in the industry who deal daily with unexplained rangers, when he was told on certain sections of the QTTC. There were several occasions that those particular rangers complaints from inbound tour operators. The were the result of the winding down of labour Minister's response to those complaints was market programs. We discussed it on that it was sour grapes from a small minority. numerous occasions, and we discussed it But then came more complaints from other again when we met to discuss the report of operators who were dissatisfied with the this committee. It is deceptive—and I find it attitude shown to them by the management of very disappointing—that people who know the the QTTC. Firstly, I read published reports of truth will not actually state it. criticism from people from Movie World and The Minister has confirmed that there are Qantas. Then I was told first-hand that those now 487 permanent ranger positions following complaints were not exaggerated; they were the addition of those extra 110 positions over genuine concerns—so much so that in the the last three years, and that there will be a case of one of them, the people concerned further increase of 25 rangers over three were seeking an early audience with the years. So please, let nobody say that there Minister. Then came a gathering in Brisbane are fewer rangers in our national parks. In the attended by what could only be called one of few seconds I have remaining to me, I would the most representative of the overall industry like to mention that I was very pleased—— in the State. There the complaints came from a wide range of people. They complained Time expired. about the direction of the QTTC, its arrogance Mr VEIVERS (Southport) (5.53 p.m.): and its attitude of "we know better than you." Firstly, I congratulate the chairman of the I raised those concerns in Parliament and committee, the member for Everton, and all made some public comments. The Minister other members of the committee. I think the reacted by claiming that the complaints were process went particularly well. I also thank the confined to a small minority. Again, he blamed research director, Karen Sampford, and the the inbound tour operators. The Minister even research officer, Helen Angelos. I must suggested that the complainants were card- also—and this is not going soft—thank the carrying members of the National Party. He Minister for Tourism, Sport and Racing; he got was wrong, wrong, wrong. Those complainants grumpy on only about three occasions, which came from wide sections of the industry, and was pretty good. there is no way that all of them could be Mr T. B. Sullivan: Six less than yours. people who side with the Opposition. In fact, people who I considered to be this Mr VEIVERS: No, we got along Government's very closest friends were reasonably fine. I will mention later the 69 or starting to complain about the QTTC's 72 questions—I have lost count—that I had to direction and some of its arrogance. In fact, a place on notice. I thought that the Minister couple of the Government's mates down the might have given me answers to those coast have complained. questions on notice. When I suggested that the Minister and Basically, in assessing the Estimates for the QTTC had lost the plot, that was when the the Department of Tourism, Sport and Racing, Minister reacted angrily, again trying to target I spent a considerable amount of time asking the inbound tour operators. By that stage, questions relating to the Indy. However, I those people comprised the minority of the 13 June 1995 12476 Legislative Assembly complainants who were coming forward about explore the areas of liquor licensing, youth and the QTTC. I was approached by corporate services and, unfortunately, only representatives of the regional tourist one question was able to be asked on the authorities. They also complained of important area of the Sport and Recreation arrogance. They staggered me when they Program. Similarly, in relation to the Estimates suggested that a tourism strategy, which had of the Department of Environment and been promoted by the QTTC and the Minister, Heritage, areas such as the department's was considered a big joke throughout the conservation strategy, coastal management, industry and nothing more than a Government cultural heritage and expenditure relating to paper. Those complaints have not ceased. In the implementation of the new Environmental fact, many of the original charges have been Protection Act received insufficient attention by echoed further afield and have surfaced at a the committee. That was largely because of number of tourist and social gatherings on the the concentration on the minutia by Gold Coast and in north Queensland, central Opposition spokespersons, which resulted, as Queensland and here in Brisbane. I said earlier, in insufficient time for exploration As a man who has conducted a number of those important program areas. of very successful businesses, I believe that What was the result of the questioning by when one strikes that many dissatisfied the Inspector Clouseaus from the Opposition? customers, either one does something about it Absolutely nothing! Where is the threatened quickly or one's business goes down the Reservation statement from the Opposition gurgler. It could also mean a setback to spokesperson on Environment and Heritage, generating new jobs within the industry, who to this day is unable to understand the particularly with the flow-on effect from clear and concise answers of the Minister? successful enterprises. That is the course I Even today during question time the member suggest that the Minister should be following for Burnett was at it again in relation to bird in getting to the bottom of all of those licensing fees. He was unable to understand complaints and finding out whether, in fact, he or accept the assurances by the Minister that and the QTTC were travelling in a different there is no basis to the figure of some $850 direction from the rest of the industry in alleged by undisclosed sources to the Queensland. In many ways I believe they are, member. and that is bad for Queensland tourism. It is The Opposition stands condemned in this particularly bad when tourism in Queensland is election year for completely ignoring suffering, with bad figures coming from north Queensland's youth, the Government's Sports Queensland and other parts of Queensland. Development Scheme and the Environmental Time expired. Protection Act—all major reforms of this Sitting suspended from 6 to 7.30 p.m. Government and all major expenditure items outlined in this year's Budget. Mr ROBERTSON (Sunnybank) (7.30 p.m.): Prior to the dinner recess, the Mr Bennett: They don't want to know Chairman of Estimates Committee D, the the good things. member for Everton, mentioned that, as the Mr ROBERTSON: They do not want to chairman of the committee, he made it a know about the good things. The Opposition policy that the time allocated for the has displayed glaring absences of concern in examination of each department's program these important program areas. was left in the hands of Opposition members. I support the Estimates committee Although that is fair—and we should recognise process, but if by giving the Opposition a free that the member for Everton was scrupulously rein in setting the agenda on time allocated to fair in his chairmanship of the committee—the each program area some programs are not problem that arose out of that policy was that, sufficiently scrutinised, perhaps we should in many instances, Government members return to a more structured approach and set were denied the ability to explore the complete definite times for the examination of each range of each department's activities. As I program area. No doubt members opposite said, this is no criticism of the committee's will complain that they did not have enough chairperson; more to the point, it is a criticism time overall to explore all of the programs in of the time-management skills of the each department. However, if one studies the Opposition spokespersons who sat on that transcript of the Estimates committee hearing, committee. the only reasonable conclusion that can be For example, in relation to the Estimates arrived at is that Opposition members waste of the Department of Tourism, Sport and their time by not listening to answers provided Racing, Government members were unable to to their questions. Legislative Assembly 12477 13 June 1995

In the time that remains, I will concentrate Prix. It has been through no accident that in on one matter that deserves further mention, the past couple of days we have seen that and that is in relation to the Budget allocation great event being put on the knife's edge. In for the Department of Family Services and many ways, that is due directly to the Aboriginal and Islander Affairs. I wish to record absolutely irresponsible actions of the Leader my strong support for the 16 per cent increase of the Opposition and the member for in the department's budget from last year. This Southport. Honourable members opposite important department's budget has grown should wait until the start of the election from some $159m in 1989-90 to over $500m campaign proper. If ever we are going to see this year. As a result of that increase, two people under heat in their electorates, it programs such as Post-school Options for will be the Leader of the Opposition and the People with Disabilities are receiving greater member for Southport. attention and are providing valuable The tourist industry and the voters of the assistance to that section of our community electorates of Surfers Paradise and Southport and their families. who know how important that event is to There are many other schemes within the business, employment and the general Minister's department that have received economy of the Gold Coast realise the substantial increases. Without a doubt, the negative impact that those members opposite impact on those more disadvantaged sections have had on the event. The Leader of the of our community will be felt in the forthcoming Opposition made the usual irresponsible years. In the final year in the Parliament for accusations. He used the terminology "fat cat" the Minister for Family Services and Aboriginal directors and made accusations that about and Islander Affairs, it is a credit to her that $300,000 plus was being paid to these people she has been able to achieve a significantly in directors' fees each year. In spite of increased Budget allocation for her continual assurances, figures and facts, the department this year. honourable member would not retract his Time expired. accusation, even though he has been proven wrong time and time again. Hon. R. J. GIBBS (Bundamba— Minister for Tourism, Sport and Racing) Likewise, the shadow Minister for Tourism, (7.35 p.m.): As to this year's hearings of Sport and Racing—shadow not in size but in Estimates Committee D—prior to the hearings, effectiveness—constantly carries out attacks my departmental officers had braced and criticism of the job being done by the themselves for an onslaught and experienced Queensland Tourist and Travel Corporation. considerable heartburn. Late at night, they Again tonight, the honourable member made came to me with notes and said that they false allegations about some disquiet within thought the Opposition would be a handful the tourist industry about the role of the QTTC. this year. My advice to them was not to be He mentioned the Inbound Tourist Operators overly concerned, because I did not expect Association. I have in my possession a letter much of an improvement on last year's written to me by ITOA to assure me and the performance. My expectations were well Chairman of the Queensland Tourist and founded. Quite frankly, I thought that Travel Corporation, Mr Frank Burnett, that the Opposition members were pathetic. expressions being put forward by two or three people within that industry do not reflect The member for Southport, Mr Veivers, ITOA's true position. I can name two of the pulled what can only be described as a shonky people responsible. Peter Coulihan was one, exercise on the eve of the hearing. At 1 and Peter Doggitt from Sea World was the o'clock on the Thursday afternoon prior to the other, both of whom met with significant Estimates committee hearing on the Friday, criticism at the recent international conference my department received some 79 questions on the Gold Coast. When they attempted to on notice. The honourable member thought put up a petition, they were told that it was not that he was going to get two chops at it, that their business to be involved in politics and to is, receive answers to 79 questions on notice sit down. and ask whatever questions he believed were appropriate at the committee hearing the next That is the sort of reaction that Mr Veivers day. Thanks to the wisdom and diplomacy of is getting. The honourable member spoke the chairman, those questions were ruled out about a lack of funding for the RTAs. Only a of order, and rightfully so. couple of weeks ago, he was told virtually to bag his head; they thought that we were doing As predicted, the honourable member's a great job and they were not impressed with initial blast was aimed solely at that great the role of the Opposition. I am glad that my event on the Gold Coast, the Indy Car Grand colleague the member for Sunnybank made a 13 June 1995 12478 Legislative Assembly relevant observation, that is, that the about how we will spend the money allocated honourable member for Southport failed to the Child Abuse Program—something that completely to ask one question about sport, he could have gone into in some detail during recreation, youth problems in the community the Estimates committee process. and corporate services. He failed to even ask It has been mentioned that my a question about the role of the Olympic department's financial allocation has improved committee that we have organised to steer our massively over the last few years. It has athletes, business people, culture and arts increased from $159m to over $500m, which communities through to the year 2000 to is a significant increase. The new services make sure that we capitalise on the great provided by the Department of Family Services opportunities that will be presented to this and Aboriginal and Islander Affairs, which were country and State. The honourable member never provided under the National Party, make for Southport finished off by making a very ill- for an extensive list. Mr Temporary Chairman, I informed comment about the Lang Park Trust. would like to read them to you so that He used the term "misappropriation" of members opposite might have a bit more food moneys and so on. He was a dismal failure. for thought when they are considering the vast Hon A. M. WARNER (South array of services provided by my department Brisbane—Minister for Family Services and and so that we might encourage them to Aboriginal and Islander Affairs) (7.41 p.m.): I understand the new developments, am pleased to have the opportunity to improvements and reforms that this reinforce my support for the Estimates Government has initiated. committee process. I believe that it is an We now have a Seniors Card, and over excellent process, one that enlightens 300,000 cards have been issued. We have a members in general about the various aspects whole-of-Government forward plan on ageing of a number of portfolios and, in particular, and a new Older People's Action Program. We provides details about the financial allocations have over 10,000 new child-care places plus a to Government departments. Sadly, I have to new Child Care Act that delivers quality, reflect the comments by my colleague the affordable child care. We have a network of 11 Minister for Tourism, Sport and Racing and domestic violence services throughout the say that the performance of the Opposition, at State, plus a 24-hour domestic violence least in terms of the Opposition spokesperson telephone service; and a Rural Families for my portfolio, was what can only be Strategy delivering 19 new services in rural described as woeful. Queensland. I point out that it took a Labor In common with my colleague's Government to provide basic social services to department of Tourism, Sport and Racing, my families in the bush. There is a new program department spent a lot of time getting the for infrastructure on Aboriginal out-stations; details right and having the answers at my resources for Aboriginal communities to fingertips so that I would be able to fire back develop alternative governing structures that the appropriate answers to the insightful and are culturally appropriate and meet the needs probing questions for which we were all of particular communities; a new community waiting. They did not eventuate. It was our and personal histories service which has ambition that Opposition members might have opened up access to historical information for learned something from last year. Over two Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people; a years now, we have done a lot of work in the new family counselling service—an Australian hope that there would be some thorough first—for Aboriginal families affected by a probing and some matters of substance that death in custody; vastly increased support to we could discuss with members opposite. On Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander councils the other hand, I was pleased to be able to with respect to financial administration and use the opportunity to explain to the internal audit functions; establishment of a Opposition spokesperson the basic Social Impact Assessment Unit to ensure that fundamentals of the department: which part of the social impacts of development are the department looks after domestic violence, assessed and considered; implementation of which part looks after child abuse, which part a whole-of-Government strategy to reform looks after juvenile detentions, and so on. So I institutional care and provide an appropriate did have the opportunity to provide the range of community-based accommodation Opposition spokesman with an education. But and support services for people with sadly, given his comments earlier today, it is disabilities; the introduction of a consumer clear that he did not listen very clearly to what grievance process for clients of intellectual was being said. I note that the Opposition disability services; a new Youth and spokesman has put on notice a question Community Combined Action Program to Legislative Assembly 12479 13 June 1995 prevent and reduce juvenile crime in targeted policies are; but of course, none of us knows areas; the introduction of community service what its policies are. orders for young offenders, with over 3,000 Mr FitzGerald: The whole three of you orders successfully completed so far; and just belt the Opposition. better access to personal information and, where desired, contact between adopted Ms ROBSON: I am afraid that members persons and birth parents. opposite have asked for it. Government members put a lot of work into their Ms Power: And there's more. preparation. They consulted with people and Ms WARNER: There is more than that, went into the library and did a bit of work, but that is an indication to the Opposition of rather than focusing on a couple of topics and the wide range of new services that we then going away and gloating about their provide. allegedly successful performance. I believe that the word going around was that the Time expired. Opposition spokesman had us on the run. For Hon. M. J. ROBSON (Springwood— God's sake! If they want to know the true Minister for Environment and Heritage) picture, people should read Hansard. Mr Slack (7.46 p.m.): I take this opportunity to thank the kept asking the same questions over and over committee, its chairperson, Mr Welford, and again. He could not understand the answers. the support staff for the excellent job that they Mr FitzGerald: You don't answer did. However, I join my colleagues in questions. expressing a level of disappointment at the lack of depth of the questioning from the Ms ROBSON: Of course I answered Opposition spokesperson on Environment and questions! Plenty of information was given. Heritage. This year represents the most The trouble was that the Opposition outstanding Environment and Heritage budget spokesman did not understand the answers in Queensland's history. The department has and then asked the same questions all over been funded to the tune of $160.9m, which again. We spent three hours doing that. That represents an increase of 164 per cent on the was a bit spurious and very disappointing. I allocation by the previous Government. That is spent a week briefing myself to make sure that quite outstanding. It is a shame that the I was prepared for potential questions. The Opposition spokesman did not bother to Opposition spokesman did not even touch the canvass anything other than a few ranger Environment Program, which I would have positions and a few nitpicking issues in an thought is the most outstanding success of attempt to find some fault with the this Government. I suggest that that is the performance of my staff and me. exact reason he did not want to talk about it. The Government has put in place some That is disappointing, because people want to incredible initiatives in this budget. As I have know about the initiatives put in place through travelled around the State, I have received a the Environment Program. We are telling lot of positive feedback about the new them, and I believe that it was up to the Environmental Protection Act and the various Opposition to grill us on that new program. initiatives that we have put in place to protect Members opposite never did anything about the environment, to increase protected area protecting the environment; they were management, to put more infrastructure in interested only in exploiting it. People need to place and to create jobs through the Youth know what the Opposition thinks about that Conservation Corps. Some people have asked program. me about the identity of the Opposition Members opposite go around knocking spokesman. It appears that nobody knows everything we do in the field of environmental who he is. If one studies the travel record protection, including licensing fees, which are tabled in the Parliament—— obviously geared to protect the environment A Government member interjected. and teach people in business how to interact better with the environment. I believe that the Ms ROBSON: Some people do know Opposition spokesman lost a golden the identity of the Opposition spokesman, but opportunity to understand that system more I am talking about the community at large. If thoroughly. I do not expect him to go out and one studies the amount of travel and explain it, because he has difficulty interaction that Mr Slack has undertaken, one understanding the fundamental conservation discovers that it is practically non-existent. That issues. To not even touch on the Corporate is disappointing, because people around the Services Program or the Environment Program State need to know what the Opposition represented an opportunity lost for Mr Slack. stands for, what it is offering and what its People in the community would have 13 June 1995 12480 Legislative Assembly expected that he would have canvassed those its previous report, that is, that there needs to issues. I suggest that, of all the debate that be some change to the Estimates process so has been occurring in the past 12 months, the that there can be greater flexibility in Environmental Protection Act would be at the questioning and in the amount of time top of most people's lists. It has certainly been allocated for the examination of the at the top of the list for those who have departmental Estimates. approached me to have it explained to them. This point has been raised by a number With the exception of the performance of of speakers throughout the debate today and the Opposition spokesman, I am pleased that the point of the time allocations is obviously the Estimates committee hearings went so one of some frustration for all members. I think well. The Estimates process is very sound and it is a matter that should be looked at fairly thorough, but it does rely on people putting a carefully. The committee is also of the view fair bit of work into preparing themselves for it that the Program Performance Statements, and then delivering appropriate questions while they provide useful information and are a across the portfolio rather than merely new initiative, can be improved upon by focusing on a very narrow area and asking combining several of the tables so that more repetitive questions on the same subject for meaningful comparisons can be made and three hours. That did not extend any of us that the emphasis in the documents needs to terribly much, and most of my staff felt that the be on outputs rather than outcomes. We also couple of weeks' hard work that they had put need sufficient information on the into preparing for the hearings were largely performance of the different agencies so that wasted. Nevertheless, it is useful to have all we may be able to make an informed decision that information collated together. I know that on the budget. we will put it to good use in the future, The committee is also of the opinion that particularly during the coming election questions should be able to be asked about campaign. We are well prepared. I am any area of Government activity, including disappointed that the Opposition spokesman statutory authorities and Government owned was not better prepared. corporations. Events such as WA Inc. and the Time expired. New South Wales Home Fund have all confirmed that while there was a mechanism Report adopted. for political accountability, there was a breakdown of the parliamentary system and Estimates Committee E the accountability process, and I will come to that shortly. The success of the Estimates Report process depends on the effort of all individual The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr committee members who are prepared to Bredhauer): Order! The question is— make a contribution on a goodwill basis. "That the report of Estimates There are a couple of matters which I Committee E be adopted." particularly want to cover, one of which is Government owned enterprises. It is an issue Mr NUTTALL (Sandgate) (7.52 p.m.): I rise to support the recommendations that are that was raised in our committee hearing and proposed in the report which has been agreed as more and more Government agencies go to by Estimates Committee E. In so doing, I off line and become Government owned express my support for the Estimates entities, we need to consider how they are to committee process. It certainly has been one be looked at and assessed. I am pleased to of the significant procedural reforms which this say that the Minister for Minerals and Energy, Labor Government has introduced during the who is in the Chamber this evening, was very life of this Parliament. Not only have members helpful, for want of a better word, in terms of substantially improved their knowledge of the allowing some senior officers of those budgetary process, but Ministers and Government owned enterprises to appear departments have also demonstrated their before our Estimates committee and to commitment to open and accountable answer questions. While that was not a requirement, it was pleasing to see that Government. happen because I think we will be in a The departments covered by Estimates process, as we go further down the track— Committee E were Primary Industries, Minerals when assessing Queensland Rail, the Port of and Energy and Business, Industry and Brisbane Corporation and some other port Regional Development—a total budget authorities—of wanting to question those allocation of $1 billion. The committee has people about their performance and about reaffirmed the recommendation contained in what they want to do. Legislative Assembly 12481 13 June 1995

I also wanted to raise the matter of some Estimates process should have given us an of our recommendations. I am pleased to see insight into its administrative efficiency or that, in his speech today in this debate, the otherwise. Instead, in the case of DPI, it gave Premier clearly pointed out that a review of the us little more than an opportunity to hear the whole process should be a matter for the Minister beat the policy drum. Parliament. I am pleased to say that our Six years into a Government elected on a Estimates committee has made such a promise of honesty, openness and recommendation, which simply states that accountability, we are still in the dark about there be a parliamentary review of the administration and service delivery by DPI. Estimates process. That obviously needs to Policy is rightly the province of the take place, and I am sure it will take place, at Government, but the quality of administration some point because there are some is rightly the concern of all citizens— frustrations about exactly what the processes represented by elected members of are at the moment and how they are carried Parliament. out, whether it be on a program-by-program basis or whether it be the time factor. I offer one example to illustrate my concerns about the failure of the Estimates I want to place on record my appreciation process. The Minister was far less than frank of the level of cooperation and assistance when I asked about a key indicator of progress given willingly by the three Ministers and their in achieving the Government's supposed goal departmental staff. I also thank all members of of workplace equity. The question was simple: the committee for their support and what percentage of the target groups are cooperation, for all the hard work that they put employed at or above the AO7 level? The into preparing themselves for the hearings and figure sought was easily accessible to the for the numbers of probing questions which Minister if he wanted to answer the question. they asked. I also wish to place on record my All agencies are required to keep such appreciation to the research staff, Ms Michele information and report it annually to the Cornwell and Ms Meg Hoban. As I said, we do PSMC. In fact, I obtained 1992 information have a young Estimates committee system from the department's EEO Management and I am sure that, as the system evolves, it Plan, but the Minister could have provided up- will make a positive contribution to public to-date figures if he chose to. sector efficiency and enhance the accountability of the Government to the For the record, in 1992, there were two Parliament. female AO7 staff in the administrative stream and 22 males. At the AO8 level, there were Time expired. two females and six males. At the top level, in Mr PERRETT (Barambah) (7.57 p.m.): I the Senior Executive Service, there were just join this debate to make constructive two females and 44 males. The Government suggestions about the Estimates process. has given its employees a legislated policy Last year, I was highly critical of a process commitment to equity in the workplace. That which proved to be more about hiding the the commitment is not reflected in workplace detail of administration than opening it up to reality is a sign either that the commitment is scrutiny. This year, I am not much happier with hollow or that performance lags well behind the process as it translates into practice. policy. The committee was entitled to examine My letterhead carries the message: that. serving the people. We should all remember Progress may indeed have been made in that that is what we are here for—to serve the redressing the imbalance since 1992. The real interests of the people of Queensland. That point is that the Minister filibustered rather includes a representative assembly keeping a than give the simple numerical answer the check on Executive Government on behalf of question required. The bottom line is that he the people. The importance of Estimates was unwilling to allow the committee to hearings grew with recent shameful properly examine the Estimates of his amendments to already weak freedom of department. The Estimates process will be an information legislation. The Estimates expensive sham as long as Ministers can take committees are the only viable means left of that attitude. enforcing accountability. It will also be a sham so long as the My particular concern in the Estimates process is conducted at breakneck speed. hearings was the Department of Primary Committees must be given time to do the job, Industries. I suspect that, within the policy and three departments in one day is constraints of the Government, DPI staff do a unrealistic. We should spend a day on each good job for the people of Queensland. The department, with time to probe areas of 13 June 1995 12482 Legislative Assembly interest determined by individual members and it has been allocated some $172m, which beforehand, or thrown up by questioning. includes $13.5m for special projects and Current time lines do not permit that, $32.4m for ongoing departmental operational especially with departments as large or as costs. That is an indicator that mining is very diverse as DPI, Health, Transport and a few important to Queensland. others. Proper judgements can be made only One item I am particularly pleased about on the basis of fact, and that sets a few is the Government's commitment to tariff requirements. equalisation in the electricity industry, and There should be a decent interval $86m has been allocated to community between the Budget and the start of service obligations. I quote the Minister, Mr Estimates hearings. Members should have the McGrady, in the Hansard of the Estimates time to identify areas of interest and obtain committee— information. They should be provided with "The Government is committed to factual information below program level, and the continuation of electricity tariff have access to departmental officers for equalisation. I want to stress this point, factual advice. Detailed questions should be because tariff equalisation means that submitted and answered in advance for follow- people in Brisbane are paying the same up at the hearings. Such a process might be a tariff as people in Burketown or Boulia." burden for the Government, and it might embarrass some Ministers and department This is a real social justice aspect of the heads. Surely, that is the price of office and Government's policy. I believe Labor is about part of the obligation that comes with the creating an equal community, as can be seen through what we are doing with electricity privilege of spending public money. prices. Mr BENNETT (Gladstone) (8.01 p.m.): The Minister also defined the role of the In rising to speak to the Estimates Committee electricity corporations. On 1 January the QEC E report, I would say that our Estimates went split into the Queensland Generation off very well this year. All committee members Corporation, known as AUSTA Electric, and made a good contribution to the Estimates. the seven electricity boards and the former We had one of the longest times set for QEC's transmission business unit became Estimates hearings. Bearing in mind the size subsidiaries of the Queensland Transmission of the Primary Industries portfolio, a lot of time Supply Commission, which has become was allowed for scrutiny of the budget. I make known as the Queensland Electricity Supply special mention of Mr Casey, Minister for Corporation, known as Powerlink. The budget Primary Industries, who played a superb role in identified that $1.842m has been allocated to delivering all the information asked of him the office of the electricity regulator. through the questions of the Estimates committee members. It was identified in the Estimates hearing that the Safety in the Mines Testing Research I want to focus on the Minerals and Station program—SIMTARS—is maintaining a Energy portfolio, which I believe is one of the worldwide reputation for excellence. SIMTARS most important in the Government, particularly provided expert technical and scientific in relation to business and the fact that mining evidence for the warden's inquiry into the pays the bills. Representing the electorate of Moura coalmine tragedy. The Minister advised Gladstone, I probably know more than most the committee that in 1994-95 the inquiry the importance of this department. We need called 66 witnesses at a cost of $2.9m. the coal that comes through the port of Gladstone and we export aluminium from At this stage I would point out the interest Gladstone. Also, the major chemical industries taken by my parliamentary colleague, Jim sell products to the goldmining industry Pearce, the member for Fitzroy, in mines through Gladstone. I know first-hand how jobs safety and in particular in the Mines Rescue in Gladstone depend on the mining industry. I Brigade. The budget shows an increase of believe that Mr McGrady, the Minister for $70,000, from $1.88m in 1994-95 to $1.94m. Minerals and Energy, is making a good fist of One important matter raised was the the job in the portfolio. He did a lot of work in additional environmental responsibilities facilitating the third potline at the Boyne delegated under the Environmental Protection smelter at Gladstone, which will probably Act. The sum of $4.97m has been allocated to mean some 700 jobs allocated to the the environmental section of the minerals and Gladstone area. energy program, and $316,000 has been allocated to the energy division. The The department is expected to return Government has allocated $6.5m for the approximately $275m in rentals in 1995-96 rehabilitation of mine sites, which recognises Legislative Assembly 12483 13 June 1995 our commitment to the environment. No I refer to two areas of concern in respect longer is mining a case of raping and pillaging of the Estimates committees, the as it was under the National Party; Labor Party Government's Hot Water Energy Efficiency members expect miners to be responsible Scheme and the Domestic Lighting Efficiency corporate citizens. Scheme, both of which I referred to during the Time expired. Estimates committee process. What a paltry attempt this scheme is to mislead the people Mr GILMORE (Tablelands) (8.07 p.m.): of Queensland as part of an election portfolio. Unlike last year, I have not included a When questioned about the budget amount Reservation in this year's committee report set aside for this particular program, a $30m because the report as presented, generally program over a number of years, and the speaking in my view, canvasses the concerns methodology applied or the research that had of all of the committee members as expressed been done in calculating the amount of at the committee meetings. I thank, therefore, money that ought to be spent on this the support staff of Committee E and the particular program, the Minister could only committee members involved in the agree that it was a guesstimate. This is how development and presentation of the report. this Government goes about its business. There was no research done and nobody went I reiterate, however, a couple of into the community and discovered who might messages that come through in that report in be interested in these programs. The Hot respect of the examination of Government Water Efficiency Scheme has been allocated business enterprises as part of the committee $6.9m and is going to service 81,250 homes, system. I am aware, and it has already been yet nobody determined whether that is a said, that the Minister allowed some reasonable or legitimate program. Nobody examination of the electricity industry and the looked closely into the Lighting Efficiency Gas Pipeline Authority as part of this year's Scheme, which 193,000 households in this Estimates committee. However, I must State might be affected by, to see how the express some dismay that the notification that program was going to be carried out, how that might be so came so late in the affairs of much it was going to cost, what the the committee that we were unable to get administrative plans for the program were, adequate time to properly canvass all of the what the secretariat would consist of and how matters that should have come before the much it would cost. No inspectorate was put in committee. We had only three hours, which place and there was no understanding as to was simply too limiting and we were therefore whether or not one was needed or how much unable to properly do the work of the it would cost. committee. The administrative costs associated with I suggest that it is absolutely imperative this scheme will cripple the scheme, because that in future those organisations which are we simply cannot have a situation, particularly owned entirely by the Government are with the Hot Water Efficiency Scheme, where answerable not only to those shareholding individual householders will be spending $80 Ministers, but are the subject of ministerial of Government money without an statement from time to time when inspectorate, without any kind of standards Government Ministers stand up and try to being set down for the kind of installation that pretend that they are going to do something needs to go around hot water systems, or the wonderful in terms of a gas pipeline, in terms standards for the fixing of that in a prescribed of a water pipeline to Tarong Power Station, in or appropriate manner. There is no way that terms of new generators within the State, or in we can know whether we are going to have an terms of Eastlink or any other major inspectorate, or whether or not the matter has development structures in this State. They been dealt with properly. People are going to must be open to scrutiny at the committee be walking away with $80 of Government, or level. The Government cannot have it both taxpayer, funded money. There will be rorts by ways. This Government cannot say on the one the tonne. This Minister is establishing this hand that we cannot scrutinise this matter scheme so that it can be rorted. I believe that because it is off Budget, irrespective of the it is absolutely wrong and it is a despicable act debt load it is carrying or the likely debt load in of this Government to set this up. It is the future, and irrespective of the fact that absolutely shameful. Government Ministers are making the most of Time expired. the political value out of these things and will Mr PEARCE (Fitzroy) (8.12 p.m.): The push them off to the side so that they cannot current drought and a long period of low prices be scrutinised. for rural produce have resulted in an economic 13 June 1995 12484 Legislative Assembly downturn, placing many rural families in crisis. supply projects contained in the From Strength There are currently 42 shires, four part shires to Strength development plan announced by and 782 individual properties in 24 other shires the Premier. Funds have been made available which have been drought declared. This to carry out detailed investigations and begin represents in excess of 20,000 primary work on those schemes. The Estimates production enterprises, or 39 per cent of the committee was told about the Rural State, that are affected by the drought. With Communities Water Supply and Sewerage this in mind, I was disappointed that the Scheme, the Waterwise Program and the Opposition did not concentrate on Portfolio acceleration of work on regional development Program Statements relevant to rural programs for the Atherton Tableland and the producers and the drought. Of the 34-odd State's south west. The committee also heard direct questions asked by the Opposition, no responses from the Minister relevant to rural drought-related question was put specifically to leadership training and land management on the Minister. There were questions about a property and Statewide basis. capital works, employee numbers, VER The department will continue with the Tick consultants, water infrastructure, natural Eradication Program. Funds have been made resource management, exotic diseases, dairy available to develop management systems for herd recording, pasture competition with more sustainable use of forests and the kangaroos, vegetation and land monitoring. expansion of native species plantations. The There was a doubling up of questions when Minister and the Department of Primary Opposition members not on the committee Industries care about primary production. They were given time to question the Minister. care about the man on the land, his family In asking 42 questions, Government and the communities that depend on primary members covered subjects such as the producers. The DPI is doing a great job for drought, financial management, eco-tourism, rural Queensland. It is disappointing that rural leadership, the South West Strategy, members of the Opposition did not water allocation and management, concentrate on the issues that are of real aquaculture, water supply and sewerage concern to people living in the bush. Members scheme, piggeries, beef feedlots, chemical of the National Party in particular have been residue and livestock diseases. There is only the long-term claimers of caring about people one conclusion that can be drawn from the in the bush. They want to walk away from the committee's hearing into the DPI: that issues rather than address the concerns of Government members are across the issues people who live in rural Queensland. I am relevant to rural Queensland. Opposition particularly interested in the focus on the members have lost the plot and have shown Fitzroy Basin in central Queensland, which was they just do not care about the people in the announced in the Government's From bush. They are more intent on nitpicking rather Strength to Strength development plan and than concentrating on issues that are will ensure full development of industries which impacting on the people of rural Queensland. have already brought gigantic benefits to Drought affected rural producers do have central Queensland. the support of Government. The As an active member and now Chairman Government's drought strategies are aimed at of the Premier's Northern and Rural Task transforming the primary production sector Force, on behalf of rural Queenslanders I towards being self-reliant and managing the sincerely thank Primary Industries Minister inevitable occurrence of drought. The Ed Casey for his commitment to people in the strategies have been developed to assist bush. I do not have the time to go into detail producers to plan and manage their properties about Ed Casey's achievements, but let me on a long-term basis, with 20 financial say this: Ed Casey is highly regarded and counsellors employed and 11 property respected by the rural community. He is tough managing centres set up in the regions. Funds but fair and as honest as they come, and have been allocated to assist drought- Queensland is a better place for having had declared producers with the transport of fodder Ed Casey as Primary Industries Minister. All I and water and agistment for stock. can say is: best of luck, Minister, and thanks From responses given by the Minister, it is mate for everything you have done for me and clear that water infrastructure and the people of rural Queensland. management has been identified by the DPI Mr CONNOR (Nerang) (8.17 p.m.): First as the foundation for the future economic of all, I raise concerns about the Estimates development of Queensland. The committee process. The present system is Government is moving quickly to implement based on goodwill, with no powers to the first components of the $600m new water subpoena witnesses or documents. On that Legislative Assembly 12485 13 June 1995 basis, as long as the Minister is cooperative— The Federal Government report Linking as both this Minister and the previous Minister Industry Globally effectively has maintained were—the process works very well. Obviously, that quality assurance could actually be if a particular matter could cause a problem for damaging small business in Australia. The the Government, that situation could change. report also blamed Government purchasing At the moment, the process does not really policies as one of the key factors in damaging provide the accountability that it should. small business. With the 1 January 1996 I would like to raise two particular issues in deadline approaching quickly, the Queensland relation to the Estimates committee that Government needs to conduct a very in-depth discussed DBIRD. One is women in the review of its current direction. Many bureaucracy, and the other is quality commentators maintain that Australia has assurance. In the case of women in the public gone overboard on the implementation of service—the records show that only two of the quality assurance. A Mobil survey has shown top 50 positions are held by women. In the that Australia may be becoming over quality SES area—there were none at all. As DBIRD assured in that 4,800 certificates had been is the lead agency for the Government for issued in Australia by March. This should be business in Queensland, it should lead by seen in comparison with the home of quality example. The Minister did not justify this assurance, Japan, with a population many position, and I am hoping that later this times that of Australia and only 1,060 evening he will expand on that position. In this certificates issued as of June last year. Quality case, there was no explanation. One can only assurance is being implemented probably to assume that because there was no an extreme in Australia and much of that is explanation, either the Minister was not aware being driven by Government departments. or he condoned the situation. On the one Time expired. hand, the Minister is mouthing rhetoric about Ms POWER (Mansfield) (8.22 p.m.): I what the Government is doing for women in rise to support the Estimates committee business; but on the other hand, it is allowing process that has been operating for the past the top 50 positions, with the exception of one two years. I believe that, through these or two, to be held by men. One of the committees, members have developed skills, subprograms of DBIRD is Women in Business. as have Ministers and departmental officers. A A section of that deals with mentoring. If we very cooperative approach existed in our do not have women in the very upper committee. We worked well as a committee echelons of the department, it makes it very and I am disappointed in the member for difficult to have mentors for younger women Nerang. I find it hard to believe, but I am coming up through the department. Whether disappointed. Let it be known that Mr Connor we have to bring in some laterally, or whatever failed to attend the meeting at which the the case might be, that might be worth committee members wrote the report; yet he considering; we could then use them as has the hide to put in his dissenting report—— mentors for the juniors to bring them up through the system. Mr Connor interjected. As to quality assurance—a question Ms POWER: No, the honourable about the amount that had been spent by the member was not in the room. The records will department on quality assurance over the show that he was not in the room because he three-year period was taken on notice. That came to the next meeting—— amount totalled in excess of $375,000. The Mr CONNOR: I rise to a point of order. Minister was also asked what have been the That is not true; I was at the meeting. achievements for that expense. The answer Ms POWER: No, you were not. did not detail any significant current outcomes; it only talked about outcomes that are likely to Mr CONNOR: I was at the meeting. I occur in the future. As DBIRD is the lead find it untrue and offensive and ask that it be business agency of the Government, it would withdrawn. seem unreasonable that it should not be able The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr to produce actual achievements from those Bredhauer): Order! There is no point of order. three years and the $375,000. On that basis, Ms POWER: As I was saying, the we have to question the wisdom of the current member was not at the first meeting when the way in which it has been implemented. If report was drawn up. He came to the second DBIRD is in that position, the chances are that meeting and said that he had his reservations. a number of other businesses are in the very I make that comment because the other two same position. The whole issue should be Opposition members were at the first meeting viewed in perspective. and they expressed their concerns. I shared 13 June 1995 12486 Legislative Assembly some of those concerns because I was In the Estimates committee last year, I felt wearing my parliamentary hat, not my ALP that the officers came to the red Chamber and member's hat. On the night of that meeting I turned their minds to the various hard sat up and rewrote lines in the report to show questions, but did not have the opportunity to the concerns that the members had answer. This time, it was very good to see expressed. We had discussed some of those departmental officers giving details. matters about which the member for Nerang In conclusion, I would like to thank the has spoken, and I shared those concerns. Deputy Clerk, Michele Cornwell and our They could have been equated. To draw the assistant Meg Hoban for their hard work. I conclusion that DBIRD is the only department place also on the record my appreciation of having those problems is false. the work of Hansard and the attendants during Mr Connor interjected. the Estimates process. We really proved our commitment to the Estimates committees on Ms POWER: I have looked at the Tuesday night because we had to work while reports of many of the committees because I everyone else enjoyed the opening of the am on record in this place as being a monitor convention centre. of women's place in departments and society. I am pleased to see that that is starting to Mr HOBBS (Warrego) (8.26 p.m.): For have an effect on the Opposition benches. I an election Budget, this was a fizzer. It had no have examined the departments and to select depth, recycled projects and capital one out of the group is really unfair. expenditure on phantom projects, as Government members know as well as I do. Mr Connor interjected. During the Estimates committee hearings, the Ms POWER: The honourable member Minister for Primary Industries waffled on—and had his five minutes. When concerns were we all know how he does that. That waffling expressed in relation to women and time was not in the spirit of cooperation. It was not allocations, the Government members of the done to provide the information for which he committee went to a lot of trouble to meet was asked. He went on and on and on, as he Opposition members halfway because we normally does, and that was not doing the believed that that was the spirit that needed to right thing by the committee. The Minister exist in the Estimate committees. tends to go on about various matters. He often talks about the Neil Turner weir; yet Mr Connor: We acknowledge that. when he was Leader of the Opposition he Ms POWER: I appreciate that two non- never uttered one word against the Government members have acknowledged construction of that project. It is a bit difficult that. If we had had the chance to have the for the Minister to now criticise that project. At honourable member's reservations raised in least something was built; nothing has been the meeting, we could have met some of built under the Government of members those concerns. opposite. Some members tried to sneak into the The Minister talked also about funding of Estimates committee questions which had $600m for capital works under the Water already been placed on notice in the Infrastructure Expansion Program. During the Parliament. If the committee system is to be committee hearing we discussed the Comet successful, people have to do a bit of River dam, the Dawson River dam and also a homework; they have to know the appropriate dam at St George. The Opposition members forum in which to ask their questions and the on the Committee read the Budget papers way in which they should be answered, and honourable members can guess how otherwise we will not get through this process much funding has been allocated for those at all. projects: nothing at all apart from a handful of silver for scattered research work! They are An Opposition member interjected. purely phantom projects. Ms POWER: I take the interjection I do not even know whether it is possible about whether the Minister should know, to build the Comet River dam. The Minister did because on a couple of occasions Ministers not even know that the AA Company had tried to respond in the proper manner and a been given permission to build a feedlot and couple of people got on their high horses an irrigation scheme on that river. about wanting to ask a question in both the Compensation of $15m would have to come House and at the Committee stage. People out of the funding before the project could need to realise that that is the Committee start, so how is the Government going to build stage, even if it is not held in this Chamber. it? Legislative Assembly 12487 13 June 1995

I was suspicious of the figure that the applications for permits to be involved in Minister was putting up. For instance, in 1994 extractive industries have been lodged, but figures, the cost of the Dawson River dam was they will have to wait 13 or 14 months before $102m. Can honourable members guess what they are processed. We asked the Minister, it was in the From Strength to Strength "Have you the staff to go out and complete document? It was $180m. I asked the Minister that assessment that you are doing?" The the reason for that difference. He said, "Well, Minister virtually said, "No." The Minister said updating the figures." Obviously, the inflation that if industry wants to provide some staff, it rate has been very high between 1994 and can do so and it might speed up the process. 1995. The Minister also referred to QIFF What an absolute disgrace! The Government funding, so the Opposition members of the sets the agenda to stop extracting sand from committee explored that aspect a little more the Brisbane River in an effort to try to win a closely. The Minister explained, "We are few green votes, yet the Minister is trying to making allowance for capitalising the interest put people out of work. People in the industry during the construction period." He said, "We want to work, but they cannot because the are also capitalising the cost of the revenue Minister is placing restrictions on them. What shortfalls." What sort of funding is QIFF going Price Water is another project that the Minister to supply? A $102m dam has become a has been talking about for quite some time. $180m dam. We are seeing first-hand Why will the Minister not announce the result economics Labor style. of the What Price Water program? The reason Mr Perrett: Labor is all right, as long as is that the price will go up. you don't hit the chequebook. Time expired. Mr HOBBS: That is true; that is exactly Mr J. H. SULLIVAN (Caboolture) right. Anyone out in the community could tell (8.31 p.m.): I am delighted to rise to support honourable members that. In the next few the report of Estimates Committee E. I am months, Government members will learn that also delighted because my speech will follow very quickly. the absolute babble from the member for The Opposition committee members Warrego that we have just listened to. asked the Minister whether the price of water On the day that the Honourable Ed Casey from those so-called new sites would be announces his intention to retire from calculated to include the capital cost of Parliament, I cannot allow the opportunity to construction. The Minister said, "Yes." How pass without saying a few words about him. many other dams would have been built in Since I came into this Parliament, I have Queensland under that proposal? There would served on Ed Casey's committee, but my have been none! It cannot be done under association with him goes back to my time as those circumstances. As I said before, the a candidate for the then largely rural seat of Budget contains phantom projects which have Glass House when Ed Casey took what was been put together for an election campaign in valuable time as an Opposition spokesman to an effort to give the appearance that the instruct me on issues relating to industries that Government is doing something. It is doing were pertinent to my electorate. Subsequently, nothing—nothing at all! he saw me take a rural electorate from a The Minister stated that his was one of member of the National Party. the few departments that is losing staff. Staff As Minister for Primary Industries when numbers have dropped again, this time by 52. the Goss Labor Government came to power in Year after year staff numbers are dropping. December 1989, Ed Casey was handed the The Minister is eroding the Department of monumental task of amalgamating the DPI, Primary Industries and letting down rural the Forestry Department, the Water Resources industry. And what is being given back? Commission and the boating and fisheries Nothing—nothing at all! The Client Water department. That did not prevent him from Services section alone has dropped from 61 to starting straightaway on the work that sets this 51 staff members. That is a reduction of 16 Government apart from the Government of per cent. Does the Government not believe in those members opposite. During his career as Client Water Services? Does it not believe in Minister for Primary Industries, Ed Casey has assisting the people in the community who concentrated on the real issues of the need advice about water? At present primary nineties. He has not dwelt in the past—not like industry is not going well, and I do not think members opposite who have dwelt in the that the Minister is helping one little bit. 1970s. I turn to extractive industries in the Since Ed Casey took over the Primary Brisbane and Lockyer Valleys. Thirty Industries portfolio, sustainability has been the 13 June 1995 12488 Legislative Assembly

Minister's catchcry. I am sure members Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I will talk about opposite support very important programs, fishing in the Pumicestone Passage at the such as Landcare and integrated catchment end of this month. That will wipe the smile off management. They have been largely driven the member's face. The National Party by Mr Casey's own desire to see them in candidate for my electorate is going to come a place. His dual goals of making farmers more gutser over fishing in Pumicestone Passage. efficient and making marketing more efficient We will talk about fishing in Pumicestone have been largely achieved. That industry Passage at the appropriate time. The member modernisation has been achieved in is an idiot. He comes out to Pumicestone consultation with the rural industries Passage—— themselves. Again that has been the hallmark The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr of the Minister's stewardship of the Primary Bredhauer): Order! That word is Industries portfolio. The same applies whether unparliamentary. I ask the member to we are talking about the sugar industry, the withdraw. grain industry or the dairying and fishing industries. Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I withdraw. The fires that raged through the Beerburrum I also say that, during Ed Casey's forests in September last year were the largest stewardship of the Primary Industries fires in plantation forestry in 60 years. Under Department, some of the most important this Minister, a very, shall I say, inventive consumer legislation has been passed in the rescue program has been undertaken. guise of primary industries legislation. I refer particularly to the Meat Industry Act. Ed Casey Time expired. has been active in developing strategies for Hon. E. D. CASEY (Mackay—Minister pushing Queensland exports into Asia and the for Primary Industries) (8.37 p.m.): This Pacific. During the recent prolonged and evening a few interesting points have been extensive drought, he has also been made. First and foremost, I would like to say, responsible for organising a great deal of "Thank you very much indeed", to those drought assistance for people. members of the Government who have paid Over the last six years, I have travelled me personal compliments. All I can say is that with Ed Casey extensively throughout western I did my job as I saw that it ought to be done. Queensland, rural Queensland and north It was a pity to sit through the Estimates Queensland. I have seen the respect that Ed committee hearings. From some quarters Casey has earned from rural people during his there has been some criticism of the long career. I am sure that, as more people in Estimates committee hearings, but the biggest those rural industries in the west hear the criticism that I have is that it was rather a pity news about Mr Casey's impending retirement, to sit through them and witness the lack of they will be effusive in their praise of him. contribution by the Opposition. All the other The ALP is going to miss Ed Casey and, I Ministers were quizzed for three hours by suspect, as my colleague the member for members of the various committees. They had Fitzroy said, so, too, will the people of ample time for preparation and better Queensland. I believe that away from the documentation than has ever before been hurly-burly of daily politics, in the future Ed presented. However, in my case, the Casey's name will be mentioned in the revered Estimates committee hearing went for five tones that are reserved for Forgan Smith. On hours. I was happy to accept what happened a more personal note, this evening my mother in those five hours. There were three rang me and asked me to pass on her own Opposition members on the committee. Two regards to Ed Casey. She is going to miss of them acted like Dummy the clown and reading his contributions in Hansard and never asked a question. In fact, I must relate reading about his exploits in the paper. this to members, because it was rather funny. I thought at one stage one member was at In the few moments that are left to me, I long last trying to open his mouth to ask a would like to talk about some of the issues question. So I paused mid-stream in the relating to the Primary Industries portfolio that answer that I was giving and said, "Did you are of importance in my own electorate. I have a question to ask?" He said, "No, no." speak specifically of the fires that raged He backed off and raced a mile, bowels through the plantation forests in the quivering for fear that he might have to Beerburrum area in September. contribute something. That is the way the Mr Perrett: Tell them about fishing in Liberal Party contributed to the Estimates Pumicestone Passage. committee. There was only one Liberal Legislative Assembly 12489 13 June 1995 member on the committee, so it is pretty easy ability that any party seriously aspiring to to guess to whom I am referring. Government in the complex world of the Three other members of the National twenty-first century needs. All members Party came to ask some questions. In the opposite adopt the typical approach handed main, they tried to ask specific questions down by their leader—whingeing, carping, about their own electorates and then they moaning and groaning. That approach has buzzed off again out into the corridors or been carried through from the Nationals to the wherever it was that they wanted to go. In Liberals. The best thing that can happen out relation to the committee process, the of all of this is for the people of Queensland to Opposition members made no contribution say, "Let's get the Goss Government back for whatsoever, yet they have the hide to come in another term." here, criticise and make no positive points Hon. T. McGRADY (Mount Isa— about the Estimates committee process. Minister for Minerals and Energy) (8.42 p.m.): Tonight, I take the opportunity to make a few My department's Estimates showed further comments about my portfolio. Before clearly an 11 per cent increase, something like doing so, I will respond to some of the points $67m, on last year's Estimates—a record raised by the member for Tablelands. Firstly, $673m. Some $18m has been allocated to the honourable member claimed that there new initiatives along with an extension has been no consultation at all in relation to program that allocates $67m over the next the Alternative Energy Policy which our three years for things such as rural leadership Government introduced recently. Honourable and various water projects that will enable members opposite have a very short memory. people in the rural communities to better lead Mr Deputy Chairman, you would remember and manage their families, their businesses, the task force set up under the chairmanship their industries and their opportunities in their of Jan Taylor, which travelled the length and communities. breadth of this State holding public meetings The water allocation management plans to gauge the reaction and opinions of to deal directly with one of the major issues Queenslanders. At the time, we were criticised arising from the current drought. It will be for setting up that task force; but it produced planned on a scientific basis rather than on many and varied suggestions, some of which the ad hoc bases of past Governments. That we have implemented or are in the process of planning has been carried out in consultation implementing. with the various industry groups. Over the last The honourable member opposite spoke five years, we have modernised much of the about my comments in relation to how we legislation, set up policy councils covering all of worked out the amount of money required for our major industries, set up property some of our schemes. I did say that, at the management centres and put in place the end of the day, it would probably be a most comprehensive drought package. That guesstimate; I do not know, nor does the has all been done with the support of the department, how many people will apply for industry. After five years, the Opposition the $500 rebate. At the end of the day, based members came along to the Estimates on all of the information that we had, it was a committee hearing. Their National Party guesstimate. Nobody knows exactly how many members did not focus on any major people will apply for a rebate. When all is said programs of the Primary Industries and done, this is a debate about the Department. They left that to the Government Estimates for the coming year. Once again, members, who canvassed information about the member for Tablelands found himself matters including the successful tick strategy, completely out of his depth. the Agribusiness 2000 program, the handling of chemical contamination in the community I refer to page 6 of the report. I am sure and the new Sugar Industry Act and what it that my colleague the member for Sandgate has meant for so many parts of Queensland. deliberately made the following error. Where Questions on all of those matters were asked the report states that the "portfolio of Minerals by Government members. Property and Energy is expected to return management planning and the new extension approximately $275m in rentals", a word was strategy are also very important. missed out. It should read "in rentals and royalties". Tonight, I again have the Unfortunately, the Opposition is focused opportunity to emphasise the importance of firmly on the distant past. It has no interest in this sector and this portfolio. Not only do we programs for building up export industries for anticipate receiving $275m in rentals and the future and obviously no ability to come up royalties; last year, from the other side of the with positive policies of its own. That is an portfolio, namely, the Energy side, Treasury 13 June 1995 12490 Legislative Assembly received $235m. So just two different aspects Nerang, and thank him for his participation in of my portfolio have contributed more than the Estimates process. His line of questioning half a billion dollars towards the Queensland was a vast improvement on last year's Treasury, which allows this Government to haphazard approach and showed some build schools, roads, houses, police stations preparation and research on his part. I would and all of the other infrastructure and services like to give credit where it is due; the member that one associates with the Government. for Nerang did make an effort this year. Last The important principles of the Estimates year, he asked only two questions on small process have once again been emphasised. business. This year, he devoted the first 20 We heard members of the Opposition minutes of questioning to that part of my speaking about the Estimates. Anybody would portfolio. I congratulate the member on his believe that they introduced the concept. In all renewed interest in one of the most important of the years that the National Party was in employer groups in Queensland. However, I office in this State, not one single will not let the member for Nerang off the hook accountability measure came before the completely. He did manage to throw in some Parliament. The Estimates have led to a better questions straight from left field. For instance, I relationship between the Minister and the was curious to hear of the member's Parliament and the Minister and his considerable interest in the whereabouts of 30 department. The days when the Sir departmental fuel cards. I hope the member is Humphreys were allowed to flourish have reassured that those cards have been gone. Today, Ministers have to understand destroyed and that there was no evidence to their portfolios. If they do not, during the be found of departmental misuse or Estimates process they will be found wanting. misappropriation. My understanding of this year's and last year's Although some of the questions asked by process is that no Minister failed the test. I the member for Nerang lacked substance, one offer my congratulations to all Ministers. question in particular was totally reprehensible. I wish to speak briefly about some of the His inference that a regional economic major expenditures in my portfolio. I have development grant of $36,000 to the Gold mentioned briefly the $35m Alternative Energy Coast Regional Development Association Policy, which has captured the imagination not would help fund a project being run by the only of all Queenslanders but also of all member for Currumbin was offensive and Australians. We are always receiving requests completely baseless. As the member would be for more information. Today, I mentioned the aware, the Currumbin Made project is being $2m in funding for rehabilitation. The former funded totally by the hard-working local regime allowed the fly-by-night miners to make member. If the honourable member for a terrible mess of some sites. It has been left Nerang cared about small business in his to the poor old taxpayer, through this electorate, he would copy that initiative. Government, to rehabilitate those sites. I The member for Nerang again dragged spoke also about the half a million dollars for up the hoary chestnut of industrial estates. As the Environmental Protection Act. We will was explained to the member last year and ensure that these calamities do not happen again this year, gone are the days when again. We mentioned the issue of future industrial estates were established in this State supply. We have explained to Queenslanders for political purposes rather than for any exactly how we will generate the power. important economic reasons. Today, the Hon. F. W. PITT (Mulgrave—Minister situation is quite different. All DBIRD land- for Business, Industry and Regional holdings are assessed on their strategic Development) (8.47 p.m.): Firstly, I endorse economic importance and whether they satisfy the comments of the member for Sandgate, immediate market gaps or failures. Those Mr Nuttall, about the research staff and which do not meet these criteria have been or congratulate them on their support for the will be sold off. It is interesting to note that committee. I thank the Hansard staff and the some estates which figured prominently other parliamentary staff for their efforts on amongst those sold were Murgon, Nanango, what turned out to be an extremely long night. Taabinga and Wondai—all estates in the Generally, the committee should be electorate of the former Premier, Joh Bjelke- congratulated on its commitment to the Petersen. No longer will we see a Government Estimates process. tie up millions of dollars of taxpayers' money in politically expedient industrial estates which While I am in the mood for handing out end up being used for cattle agistment, as bouquets, I should also make special mention was the case under the former administration. of my opposite number, the member for We aim to provide industrial land where it is Legislative Assembly 12491 13 June 1995 needed the most and where the current recommendation that the proposed market fails to meet those needs. expenditure as outlined in the report of Briefly, I will touch on the issues raised by Estimates Committee F be agreed to. It was the non-Government members that were just one year ago that it was my pleasure to expressed in the Estimates committee report. chair Estimates Committee F in the inaugural As the committee rightly pointed out, very few year of the Estimates committees of the women hold top positions in DBIRD. However, Queensland Parliament. I seem to remember programs are in place to improve the access that all who participated in those committees of women to senior executive positions. It last year agreed that we were on a learning should also be pointed out that the process. If the workings and deliberations of information provided at the Estimates Estimates Committee F can be judged as a committee was at 31 March 1995 and on a yardstick, we all seem to have learned pretty full-time employment basis. A further two fast. women have already been appointed or soon As I did last year, I once again place on will be appointed to AO8 positions on full-time record my appreciation of the efforts of the and part-time bases. To further improve the many participants in the hearings of Estimates situation, DBIRD has management feeder Committee F, first and foremost to all programs in place such as Women in committee members—the members for Management and a recent initiative called the Maryborough, Gregory, Beaudesert, Albert, Mount Eliza Leadership Program. Warrego and Ipswich West, who all worked On the question of the cost of quality harmoniously and with an absence of any assurance implementation for DBIRD—it must friction whatsoever. I recall saying in this place be said that any continuous improvement last year that I would welcome the opportunity program is a long-term one. The end result of to serve on any future committee with the these programs should be improved members of the inaugural committee. productivity and improved client service. If the Although there were two replacements on the correct foundations are not laid in terms of committee this year from the Government appropriate systems, training and quality side, it appears that the good relationship and awareness, the long-term gains will not be the bonhomie so evident last year has been realised. The expenditure of $375,000 referred cemented. My thanks to all members for their to includes the cost to DBIRD of not only most professional approach to the task, which implementing a formal QA system but also a certainly made the job of chairman so much continuous improvement training program. easier. The latter program is giving staff the skills to It was pleasing for me to see more work smarter and to continuously improve their Opposition members availing themselves of work environment and systems, with the end the opportunity to question Ministers and result being a better service provided to departmental officers than was the case last clients. DBIRD has not yet completed the year. My only criticism of Estimates Committee implementation of its QA system. This makes F last year was that more Opposition it difficult to quantify the outcomes achieved backbenchers did not take the opportunity to by this component of DBIRD's quality program do so. As the Premier so aptly put it one year so far. The implementation of continuous ago, they did not apply the blowtorch to the improvement has been fundamental in Minister's bellies. I believe that the committee preparing the way for DBIRD to achieve hearings are most useful in giving productivity improvements in the order of backbenchers on both sides of this Parliament $592,000. an insight into the budgetary process. As expected, during the Transport Department Time expired. hearings the member for Archerfield—"Mr Report adopted. Transport" himself, Lenny Ardill—quizzed the Minister on transport matters relevant to his electorate, as did the member for Brisbane Estimates Committee F Central. I think we are all appreciative of what Report a good job these two gentlemen did in The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr representing certain matters in their own Bredhauer): The question is— electorate pertaining to transport. We often hear the comment made that "That the report of Estimates these Estimates committees are all about Committee F be adopted." public accountability. It is very interesting to Mrs WOODGATE (Kurwongbah) see public accountability in action—whether (8.52 p.m.): I rise to support the one is looking at it from the Government side 13 June 1995 12492 Legislative Assembly or the non-Government side of politics. It is my of all committee members when I place on the humble opinion that Estimates committee public record our appreciation and thanks for a hearings can be a great accountability tool in job well done. the case of an incompetent and inept The south coast motorway came in for its Government of whatever colour or, fair share of questions. The member for Albert, alternatively, if the Opposition of the day is who will have over 50 per cent of that working as an effective Opposition and can motorway in his electorate, took time to chisel and chip away at any perceived chinks question the Minister extensively on aspects of in the armour of the Government. I am not the impacts of the motorway. The Opposition sure whether any members of Estimates Transport spokesman, Mr Johnson, stated his Committee F saw any evidence of any support for his leader's stance on whether or blowtorches being applied to the respective not the motorway should be constructed. Ministers' bellies, but I had a bit of a laugh However, even the agreement to disagree because during the night I did hear one proceeded in a smooth manner with no malice Minister asking whether anybody present on aforethought. that evening had a bandaid; so I wonder whether he did feel a bit of a blowtorch. I As to the Reservations statement—I doubt it. advise the member for Beaudesert to have a look at the report of the Public Works I also place on record thanks and Committee on this topic, because it gives a appreciation to the three Ministers: the good insight into some of the matters raised in Minister for Lands, Geoff Smith; the Minister his Reservations statement. for Administrative Services, Glen Milliner; and the Minister for Transport, Ken Hayward. All Time expired. three Ministers approached the hearings in a Mr LINGARD (Beaudesert—Deputy most positive, competent and very Leader of the Opposition) (8.57 p.m.): First of approachable manner, and all three all, I must give credit to the efficiency shown attempted in no small way to answer any by Mr Rex Klein and Mr Andrew Timperley, the questions put to them. It is appropriate to parliamentary research staff officers, and the register appreciation to the departmental courtesy shown by the chairman, Mrs officers, who at times provided more detailed Woodgate, and all members of the information than that sought on particular committee. I make special mention also of the matters referred to them for which they had courtesy of the three Ministers: Mr Smith, Mr carriage. As was the case last year, they were Milliner and Mr Hayward. very well prepared. Thanks also to the One thing was apparent to me during the ministerial staff, who as usual provided good hearings of Estimates Committee F, and I do backup to their Ministers. criticise the Government for it. The Opposition We should not forget the Hansard staff, accepts that there must be preparation by who as usual—as we have come to Government members in collaboration with expect—put in long hours not only during the departmental officers. However, it is particularly committee hearings but also in the ensuing disconcerting to see all of the questions for hours to transcribe their recordings of the day. Ministers written out perfectly and to note that Thanks to Alan Watson and his staff. Last the departmental officers had exactly the year, I remember making special mention of same copy. It was quite laughable when every Mr Rex Klein and Mr Andrew Timperley, the person turned over a page at exactly the research director and research officer same time. One would not mind if the five or respectively. I recall that I referred to them as six departmental officers sitting at the front the engine room of the committee. Once table turned over a page at a time, but when again, those two gentlemen performed in the the 20 or 30 other departmental officers sitting competent and professional manner we have in the room also turn over the page, it is quite come to expect of them. laughable. It is even more laughable when Once again, Estimates Committee F had one of the Government members asks the the distinction of being the last cab off the wrong question and everyone then has to turn rank. We had very little time between the back to find the answer to that particular hearings and the printing of our report. I am question. Although the Opposition accepts well aware that, on the evening following our that there will be departmental coordination hearings, those two gentlemen were obliged and that the Minister will know what questions to work throughout the night until 5 a.m., are going to be asked by Government editing and modifying the draft report to members, for goodness' sake, the process ensure that the deadline for the printing of the should not be so laughable that everyone report was met. I know that I speak on behalf turns over the page at exactly the same time! Legislative Assembly 12493 13 June 1995

As well, departmental officers should not have were able to find out that 190 homes have not their pages stapled together so that, if a been sold to make money for the $20.4m to Government member asks a question out of be put into remote area housing. We were order, they are not forced to hold pages in the able to find that only 113 houses had been air, making it obvious that they are searching sold and in fact only $3.8m has been put into for the appropriate answer. I suggest that that particular program. We are also able to loose sheets be provided. Surely the Minister show that, even though 190 homes were could have a little platform in front of him or proposed to be sold and 190 homes might her in order to disguise exactly what is therefore be proposed for sale the year after, it occurring. is not a critical assumption for the Department One of the major concerns for me is the of Administrative Services to say that it will failure of the Minister for Administrative raise that sort of money. It has not raised that Services to incorporate or provide some form sort of money this year; it has not spent the of legal indemnity to the individuals who $20.4m and it is absolutely wrong of the comprise the State Purchasing Council. That Government and the Department of failure has led to an action for $7m being Administrative Services to assume that it will brought against those individuals. I am aware spend that sort of money next year. that the director-general, Mr Ross Pitt, and Time expired. another member of the department have had Mr BEATTIE (Brisbane Central) actions brought against them and that a (9.03 p.m.): I rise to support the Estimates hearing has taken place before Justice Committee F report. In doing so, I put on Drummond in the Federal Court. I am aware record my appreciation to the honourable also that another meeting took place last member for Kurwongbah and members of the Friday. The legal action—brought by a committee for allowing the honourable Western Australian company, Australian member for Archerfield and I to appear before Municipal Publications Pty Ltd—relates to a the committee and to ask questions, as judgment made by the State Purchasing neither of us are members of Estimates Council in relation to a purchasing directory committees. However, in the last two years we published by that Western Australian have taken the opportunity to appear at this company. The legalities of that publication are Estimates committee and raise issues in immaterial. They are not really what concerns relation to transport, particularly Queensland me—unless, of course, the action brought by Rail, in which we both have particular interests. that Western Australian company is successful. In doing so, I reject what the previous speaker from the Opposition said. I assure him The issue of great concern to me, that neither the honourable member for however, is that the Minister, through his Archerfield nor I provided our questions to failure to incorporate the State Purchasing anybody. Council, has left the door open for this kind of legal action. The State Purchasing Council is Mr Lingard: They don't give you composed of representatives of the union anything; you know that. movement, business and industry groups and Mr BEATTIE: That is another half smart people drafted from the business world who remark from the honourable member. At the donate their time and considerable effort to end of the day, we asked whatever questions assisting the Government. The fact is that we liked and we got appropriate responses. these people have been left completely I am pleased to hear what the Minister vulnerable to this or any other kind of legal had to say at the Estimates committee in action. As I understand it, each individual is relation to security on suburban trains on the responsible either in part or in full for the $7m Citytrain system and at suburban stations. I damages being sought by the Western am pleased to see that we are trialing Australian company. This disgraceful cameras at 15 stations, and I appreciate that situation—the threat of legal action and the they are targeted at those stations based on threat of being personally liable—has hung need. As I said at the Estimates committee, I over the heads of the people on the State am keen to see them on the Ferny Grove line, Purchasing Council and as yet has not been as the Minister knows. I can see the finalised. Honourable Minister for Administrative One of the benefits of the Estimates Services nodding in agreement because he committee was shown in the fact that the shares that line in our collective responsibility. Opposition was able to pry into what we might The stations at Bowen Hills, Newmarket, call the critical assumptions of the Department Windsor, Wilston and all of those other of Administrative Services. By questioning, we stations on the Ferny Grove line would benefit 13 June 1995 12494 Legislative Assembly from those security cameras. I look forward to the rail capital works budget was so large that being at the official functions to begin the trials it exceeded the road budget. Rail reform in of those cameras with the Minister. Queensland has not meant privatisation or the I turn now to rail services in particular. harsh cutbacks seen in other States. The Again, I was pleased to see information Government has guaranteed workers that they provided in relation to the new heritage train need not fear losing their pay packet or being which is in the process of being constructed in forced to transfer under the reform program. the Townsville workshops which I, along with a I look forward to other rail initiatives, number of colleagues, had an opportunity to particularly in the Citytrain system, and I am inspect and discuss with the Chief Executive of keen to see an inner-city rail service which QR, Vince O'Rourke, when we were in does a loop servicing the Royal Brisbane Townsville recently for the handover of the first Hospital and which provides a new station at of the 40 diesel locomotives that will be Normanby. None of this is new; I have made produced by Goninan North Queensland for these submissions to the department on QR. I was pleased to see the work being previous occasions but nothing could be done undertaken for the construction of new because the tunnel capacity was not there. workshops at Stuart. Quadruplication will make that possible. When considering Queensland Rail, I Time expired. think that we have to bear in mind that, since Mr HOBBS (Warrego) (9.08 p.m.): I the election of the Goss Government in 1989, endorse the words of the member for QR has undergone enormous change and Beaudesert on the assistance provided to has achieved significant milestones on its path Estimates Committee F by Rex Klein and to becoming a world class transport operator Andrew Timperley and the general with a strong customer focus. That was not coordination and administration of Estimates always the case. Recognising the strategic Committee F. I also thank the Ministers, who I importance of our rail network and its believe supported the procedure. However, significance to regional communities, the that was not really anything substantial in the Queensland Government has maintained its Lands portfolio's budget. When having a close commitment to recapturing old markets and look at exactly where Lands is going and what opening up new ones for the rail industry in has happened in the past, one finds that there this State. As early as 1990, the Government is some catch-up finance available there for started to fight the decline of rail that was noxious weeds—about $6.9m over three permitted to take place under the previous years. When one compares that finance with conservative Governments for 32 years. That the $135m provided for the koala road, it gives was done by introducing modern and one some idea of the priority that this innovative business practices and services Government places on noxious weeds. If the were revamped, including Traveltrain services, Government was really and truly interested in small freight, primary industry freight and the environment, it would provide more workshops. funding to go towards the control of the QR's financial position has been secured noxious weeds that are running rampant in just over five years with the Goss throughout Queensland. Land is being Government overseeing a turnaround from degraded every day. If we happen to be lucky losing $133m in 1989-90, which was the last enough to get a season in which it does rain in days of the conservative Governments—of the summer, because of the failure to course, that carried over into the beginning of implement control measures a serious our first term—to a $101m surplus in 1993-94. outbreak of noxious weeds will occur across That is on a cash basis. That is an Queensland. extraordinary turnaround and it puts the lie to I also want to discuss valuations, and it is the nonsense that came from Don Lane when quite evident that the Government has two he ran QR that it used to run at a profit. That proposals in mind to put in place should it win was simply fudging the figures. the next election. One is site values and the This improved viability has permitted other is to do away with concessional historic reinvestment in programs such as the valuations. I again refer the Minister, as I have $580m main line upgrade and the $780m in the past, to the huge effect that site south-east Queensland expansion and valuations will have to the land, particularly on upgrade program investment, which will in turn urban areas. The Government should come make the network more competitive with road- clean on exactly how it proposes to introduce based operations. The Goss Government has that process. The people in those low-lying brought down record rail budgets. In 1994-95, areas which have been built up will see Legislative Assembly 12495 13 June 1995 enormous increases in valuations, as will those members want a policy, we will give them one: in the canal estates. People in those types of we are going to introduce a genuine duplicate areas would be interested to know how the certificate of title that will need to be provided Government proposes to introduce that when any transaction is undertaken. No process. questions will be asked; it will happen. There Due to the enormous effect that they will has to be some process whereby the have on any assistance provided, incidence of fraud can be reduced. concessional valuations need to be Time expired. considered. They will do away with any Mr ARDILL (Archerfield) (9.13 p.m.): I, assistance provided for a valuation for the too, thank the member for Kurwongbah for the strawberry farmers in Redlands or the courtesies that she extended to those who pensioners living in single dwellings on the were not members of the Estimates outskirts of town. In the past, the land upon committee. She assisted us in every way to which those farms and dwellings sit was ask questions and I thank her for that. valued at a lower rate because it was not Estimates Committee F—one of the two going to be used at its highest and best committees that I attended—worked very well, capacity, which may perhaps have been urban to my way of thinking. I certainly did not see development. The Minister also said that local the nonsense that the member for Beaudesert governments are not very keen on the idea of mentioned. In fact, I am quite sure that concessional valuations, as they would have nobody was turning over the correct page to to carry the can and cop the blame. I do not look for my questions; I think they may have blame local government for that, unless the turned over quite a few pages on one of the Government can come up with a proposal of questions. how it intends to administer that particular process. Eight million dollars per annum is being spent on security at railway stations and that is We also discussed tree clearing which very welcome. Unfortunately, it does not was mentioned in the Portfolio Program include the three stations in my electorate, Statements on several occasions. This issue that is, Salisbury, Coopers Plains and Banoon. really boils down to the fact that the Minister I hope to see those stations being upgraded went back on his word. He promised the by Queensland Rail at some time in the near people faithfully that he would consult with future. The upgrading of stations is very them, that regional groups would be able to necessary and very welcome, especially in get back to him with feedback. The Minister terms of security, which will include the broke his word, and to anyone in the bush that installation of surveillance cameras and so on. is regarded very seriously. Perhaps he can do that down here, but he cannot do it in the The old EMUs have been in use in bush. He has lost the trust of the people out Brisbane for some time and the retro-fitting of there. The Minister cannot even find a place those vehicles will cost $12m. They are for the dingo-baiting trial because no-one will excellent vehicles, and I am not quite sure that allow the Department of Lands on their we are going to improve them to any extent, property. The Minister has lost faith with the although I guess all vehicles need to be people in the bush and it will take years to upgraded. The 12 extra SMUs purchased by build that relationship up again. The Minister this Government have made an appreciable has to give them some incentive, or at least difference to the suburban services. say that he is going to be responsible for his Two members of the Liberal Party have actions. He cannot go out and tell fibs. The been bleating stupidly for days about the more porkies you tell, the further you get into situation, yet at Indooroopilly, for instance, 14 the mire. The Minister talked about there trains pass through the station during the being no compensation in relation to tree morning peak. The headways there are 10, 8, clearing. If somebody has accepted a title in 6, 4, 11, 7, 4, 10, 8, 3 and 16 minutes. They good faith, it is wrong for that property to be cannot get a better service than that. Of the suddenly reduced in value. 14 trains, eight stop at all stations and six run In terms of regionalisation, we discussed express. It is quite ridiculous to expect all trains the "disposed persons" unit that we have all to stop at every station on the line. heard about. There were 109 people; now One major question raised in the there are 27. On the subject of the Titles Estimates committee involved Q-Link, which Office, we talked about how much was has been a magnificent success story of claimed in recent times, and $300,000 Queensland Rail since this Government took appears to be the figure. We have to have a over. Small freight is now earning $33m, which duplicate certificate of title. If Government is about a 120 per cent increase since this 13 June 1995 12496 Legislative Assembly

Government took office. That is something Government members, which seemed to be that we should be trumpeting. New South quite easily read. Again, I thank those Wales has failed, while Queensland Rail is departmental officers—Neil Doyle, Paul Blake, providing a door-to-door service. Q-Link is a Bill Turner, Vince O'Rourke and others—who huge success. were able to provide information sought by Traffic from the outer areas certainly non-Government members during the process crowds our city roads, and I do not know the of the hearings of Estimates Committee F. answer to that problem. However, one way of The Minister was asked exactly how helping people to get to and from work in the funding for the south coast motorway was to city is through the provision of bus priority be sourced. The Minister has stated that part lanes. I understand that $6m is being spent of the $685m required for the project will be each year for the next three years, which is funded by QIFF, that it will not be taxpayer certainly something of which we can be quite funded, and that funds will not be taken from proud. other roadworks to fund the project. In reply to Unfortunately, provision has not been questions from non-Government members, made in this year's Budget for grade the Minister said that to fund the $685m the separation. I think that the Government would Government will be going out into the be well advised to consider the matter over the marketplace to look for appropriate private ensuing year and ensure that provision is investors who wish to fund the work involved in made for grade separation at the four worst the motorway. The Minister is hopeful that we intersections in Brisbane. I asked a question in will be able to find investors with private capital regard to speed limits at the committee who are willing to undertake such a project. It hearings and I am very pleased to know that is a cause of some concern to the the Minister is proceeding with that issue. I non-Government members of the committee think that Queensland Transport needs a little that that issue is still very much up in the air, bit of a hurry up on that. I do not think that a that the Minister was unable to provide any further 12 months should be allowed. The real information as to how this project will be department has had six months to work on it funded and the full details of it. already, and I think it really needs to get Another of the major concerns of moving on that. It is an urgent job and it non-Government members of the committee should be speeded up as much as possible. is in relation to funding for the maintenance I am glad to see $33m being spent on and upgrading of rail line infrastructure such as upgrading the southern end of the Pacific the Westgate to Quilpie line, the Charleville to Highway so that there will be four lanes Cunnamulla line, the lines from Emerald to through to the border by March 1997. I am Longreach and Winton through to glad to see the construction of an interchange Hughenden, and also the line from Jericho to north of West Burleigh for which I foresaw the Blackall and Yaraka. need and which I mentioned in a report to Parliament some years ago. The Chief Executive of Queensland Rail, Mr O'Rourke, was able to provide some Time expired. information about those lines, particularly Mr HEALY (Toowoomba North) when he referred to the branch line task force, (9.19 p.m.): In rising to speak to the report of which I believe is still up and running, and the Estimates Committee F, I take the opportunity, fact that community and Government groups on behalf of the member for Gregory and are working to get the cost recovery on those other non-Government members of the branch lines up to an acceptable level. The committee, to personally thank the Minister, important point raised by the member for the research director, Mr Rex Klein, and the Gregory in relation to these lines is one that research officer, Mr Andrew Timperley, for their the Government must listen to. If we are going assistance and cooperation during the process down the road of cost recovery and patronage of the hearings and also prior to the hearings on those lines, then we absolutely must have and subsequently in relation to information some dollars spent for the upgrading and made available on matters relating to the maintenance of the lines in rural Queensland. portfolio of the Department of Transport. Another specific area of concern is the Obviously, the Minister, having only seemingly ad hoc funding of the department's recently taken over the portfolio, relied very Schoolsafe Program. During the committee's heavily on his departmental heads to provide hearings questions were asked not only about answers to questions posed to him during the the amount of Government funding allocated period allotted to non-Government members, to the program but also on the basis on which unlike the questions posed to him by funding was distributed. As most members of Legislative Assembly 12497 13 June 1995 the Chamber know, the Government allocates courtesy was extended to the Opposition an amount of $1m and then negotiates with members even when their questions were at local authorities on what is supposed to be a times totally unrelated to the Budget and dollar for dollar basis. Most local authorities are could have easily been ruled out of order. One more than willing to provide an amount of could not be anything but impressed by the funding for the Schoolsafe Program and they infinite knowledge the Ministers demonstrated honestly believe that their contributions will be they have of their portfolios by answering off matched dollar for dollar for each project. This the bat the great majority of questions bowled is not the case, as was outlined by the Minister up to them and, as far as I could see, they did in the Estimates hearings. It depends on a not lose a wicket. The Minister's staff did an priority system based on input from local excellent job when called upon by providing government and Queensland Transport district precise and factual answers which I would not officers. hesitate to say were to the complete So again local authorities can be left to satisfaction of all committee members. carry the can, which does happen. If a local The other two great pillars of strength authority budgets to provide funding for a were the research director, Mr Klein, and particular Schoolsafe project, the reality is that research officer, Mr Timperley. Without their unless they are seen favourably by the State expert guidance it would have been most Government or the local Queensland difficult for the committee to achieve the Transport district officers, if they are doing their excellent result it did. I consider it a privilege to job, local authorities may not receive their have been involved as a member of the dollar for dollar subsidy. This is certainly the committee in the second inquiry into the case in the City of Toowoomba. One specific Budget Estimates expenditure by the issue that I raised during the hearings into the Queensland Parliament and I very much look Department of Transport Estimates was into forward to being involved in the third one. I the amount of $18m to be spent over three have no doubt that the committee process years on a package of initiatives aimed at has gone a long way towards Governments developing the first stages of a network of bus present and future being more accountable, priority treatments and the one-year initiative more open and better understood by the aimed at encouraging urban scheduled bus average citizen of our State. May I add that operators to participate in the program to pilot had the Estimates committee process been in the operation of wheelchair accessible low place years ago the Fitzgerald inquiry probably floor buses. The Minister outlined that $2m will would not have been necessary and a few of be allocated in the form of financial assistance the fellows from this place who found to urban operators who are willing to purchase themselves on the inside could have perhaps up to two wheelchair accessible buses for use managed to stay on the outside. in the 12-month pilot program. The question of I would like to use my remaining time funding after the trial period has finished still expressing my concern about the declared needs to be answered. plants of Queensland commonly known as Time expired. noxious plants or weeds. The spread of these across the length and breadth of Queensland Mr DOLLIN (Maryborough) (9.24 p.m.): is the most alarming problem which surfaced It is with pleasure that I rise to speak to the during the Lands Estimates hearing. 1995 Budget Estimates Committee F report to Parthenium weed alone infests some 170,000 this Legislative Assembly of Queensland. Our square kilometres of our State. That is not to committee embraces the Department of mention the hundreds of other species of Transport, Administrative Services Department weeds, shrubs and rubber vines that are and the Department of Lands. The committee rendering valuable land useless at a terrifying was capably chaired by the member for rate. Kurwongbah, the honourable Mrs Margaret Woodgate, who chaired the meeting in a firm It is sickening to think that just about all of but even-handed manner that resulted in these pests were deliberately introduced into keeping what was an extremely long meeting, our country by nurseries, and we hear the but not as long as last year, on an even keel Opposition's concern about them. For 32 with a minimum of drama. years the National Party Government sat on its hands and did little or nothing about pests. I will take the opportunity of commending This inaction has now become a major, near the three Ministers who sat in the hot seat and impossible task for this Government to clean who answered a multitude of questions from up. Though there has been legislation in place both Government and Opposition members in for years that prohibited graziers having these a polite, honest and informative manner. This pests on their properties, it was rarely enforced 13 June 1995 12498 Legislative Assembly by the previous Government. Why? Because South Wales. What we have to look at in the the local authorities and State Governments future is how we go about dealing with these were mostly controlled by Nationals. They very big organisations. I asked the Minister a controlled the land and were not inclined to question about this during the Estimates pressure themselves into spending money debate. He said that we did not want to cleaning up a mess many of them helped to compromise ourselves, and I can understand create by the deliberate broadcasting and what he is saying. But we have to be cultivation of these pests. extremely careful that we maintain this very The task that faces rural Queensland now important type of information service in this is frightening and will require all our efforts to State—and it will be important if there are get it under control, if that is possible. The other organisations that are interested in Opposition's neglect over 32 years will more coming to Queensland—and that we provide a than likely take 60 years to clean up, so climate in which they can operate. Pacific Star honourable members opposite should be is owned by Bell Telephone Company of more positive rather than try to score political America and Telecom New Zealand. SunNET points off what has come about through their is a wholly owned subsidiary of that company, inaction over all those years. Honourable which is the actual instrument that negotiates members opposite talk about compensation the rates for Government departments and for being responsible for caring for the local authorities for telecommunications environment; that is, they want to be paid for services within Queensland. That company timber that they have never owned. For some negotiates with a couple of companies in reason they seem to have the idea that when particular. They are Telecom Australia, OTC, they lease, which is rent—if people rent a which is now Telstra, and Optus. That is where house they do not own it, they do not take the the problem really stemmed from. There was furniture with them and they do not take the some concern from Telstra, which is also a house away when they go—— part-owner of Foxtel. That company was particularly concerned about our involvement Mr Springborg interjected. with Optus. That is the way that I understand Mr DOLLIN: The timber never belonged it. to members opposite. It still does not. It never In future, we are going to have to be belonged to them. Honourable members extremely careful about our options, but we opposite leased the land; they did not lease cannot deny opportunities that have been set the trees. up by Q-Tel to negotiate good deals in Mr Hobbs interjected. telecommunications for the State of Mr DOLLIN: Even under their own rules Queensland. This is a particularly big State, they had to have a permit to destroy the trees. and in relation to satellites, fax machines, the They have to get their feet back on the Internet system, telephones and the complex ground. They should stop living in fantasy range of telecommunications for such a big land. A lessee does not own the timber. That State we have to ensure that we negotiate the is what the Government is talking about now. best deal possible. I believe that that is what Q-Tel did. However, it appears that that deal Time expired. was done at the expense of bringing in Foxtel, Mr ROWELL (Hinchinbrook) (9.29 p.m.): which is a company that had enormous Joining the debate on the report of Estimates potential for the whole of Australia in relation Committee F, I would like to say a few things, to pay TV. particularly about telecommunications. There I turn to CITEC, which is a very interesting is little doubt that in the future this industry is organisation with an enormous role to play in going to be one of the biggest growth areas in the provision of telecommunications in this this State and certainly in the nation. It is an State. Records of numerous departments will international business very often run by some be used to process and disseminate very, very big cartels. It is going to be information all around the State. Those extremely difficult for us to compete in that records include police records and records of arena in the future. stolen cars. A major network centre has been Recently, we witnessed an attempt by set up in Edward Street, and in that centre an Queensland to get Foxtel, a pay TV network, enormous amount of equipment has the into the State. This was an extremely ability to gather information, collate it, important issue because there were a disseminate it and then return it to whatever thousand jobs at stake. Unfortunately, we lost group requires it. For 1995-96, CITEC's budget those jobs in the communications centre to is about $67m. It is interesting to note that the Victoria. The business centre went to New estimated funding for plant and equipment is Legislative Assembly 12499 13 June 1995 reduced due to there no longer being a major Lands Department following the restructure acquisition. and review process when the Goss Time expired. Government came to office. Some people who were not offered positions in the new Hon. G. N. SMITH (Townsville— organisation were given voluntary employment Minister for Lands) (9.34 p.m.): I thank both redundancy packages, but 109 people, whom Government and non-Government members the department wanted to retain, were not for their contributions to the debate. In offered VERs but were placed in the particular, I congratulate the Chair, Margaret Departmental Development Unit. The unit was Woodgate, on her stewardship of the used as a personnel pool for departmental proceedings. The debate was an open and projects instead of temporary workers having accountable exchange between Government to be employed for major projects that the and non-Government members, with the Department of Lands has undertaken. I people of Queensland being the real winners assure the Committee that those people were from such processes. It was the Goss fully utilised at all times and were not being Government that had the initiative, foresight paid to do little or nothing, as suggested by and courage to introduce such a process the member for Warrego for his mischievous which the other side of politics denied the purposes. community for decades—behind the facade of strong Government. This Government has Another matter raised by the Opposition nothing to hide, and it does not attempt to spokesperson was that more than 40 people hide behind any concept which is purposely would shortly join that unit. I say categorically framed to conceal information from the public. that that is again wrong—mischievously, purposely and factually wrong. No I accept that the little amount of conflict to departmental officers will lose their positions emerge from the debate between resulting from the current review being Government and non-Government members undertaken by independent consultants. I add was due largely to the Opposition's that the review has not been fully completed, confirmation of the Department of Lands' and any rumour about final recommendations general approach and direction. As to most is without foundation. As background—the questions—the Opposition was satisfied, or review was necessary following the successful appeared to be satisfied, with the answers amalgamation of those four departments. The given by myself or senior departmental officers management structure put in place four years and had to be provided with only one written ago suited the environment at that time, when answer from the department the next day. change was taking place and had to be Also, I note that in its report to the Legislative managed efficiently and effectively. That Assembly, the committee recorded no changing environment has now settled, and a reservations about the operations of the review of the structure was needed to Lands Department. determine whether a four-year-old structure I acknowledge that a couple of areas was still appropriate or needed refinement. As need further explanation, and one in particular I said, the review has not been fully needs more clarification. This concerns the completed, but no junior, middle-level or senior Departmental Development Unit. Mr Hobbs officer will lose his or her job as a result. erroneously, or perhaps purposely—I am not Those were the only two points of conflict sure—referred to that unit as the "disposed that stood out in the debate between the persons unit". I can conclude only that political Opposition and the Government. A third but motivation was his reason for that statement, minor point involved compensation if the and that in itself is unfortunate for the Government's draft tree-clearing guidelines, Estimates process. By doing so, he which were raised by the Opposition misrepresented the department and caused spokesperson, are finalised in their present distress to the people involved in the form. As members of the Opposition would Departmental Development Unit, which—I know, Lands Department valuations are based repeat—should not be the intent of the on market trends in certain land categories Estimates committee process. Criticising and have nothing to do with the Government's people who have the ability to defend setting or fixing valuations. The market—rather themselves is acceptable, but criticising people than the Government—will determine the price who cannot defend themselves is not. paid for any rural property, and it is premature The unit is known correctly as the to say that land prices will drop when those Departmental Development Unit. It was guidelines are finalised and introduced. No- established over four years ago after four one has a crystal ball—especially not the former departments were merged into the Opposition—and it is mere speculation that 13 June 1995 12500 Legislative Assembly rural producers will be financially which was some 12 months after we had disadvantaged or that their land valuations will started the construction of the Brisbane fall. Convention and Exhibition Centre. Time expired. Personally, I believe that we have a tremendous facility in that centre. I disagree Hon. G. R. MILLINER (Ferny Grove— with those two particular bodies because I Minister for Administrative Services) think that, under certain circumstances, the (9.39 p.m.): It gives me great pleasure to join design and construct method provides people the debate on the findings of Estimates with the opportunity to select the design of the Committee F. I add my congratulations to project that they want to finish up with. In those of previous members for the way in relation to the selection of the design of the which the honourable member for Brisbane Convention and Exhibition Centre— Kurwongbah conducted the committee. I pay the Government had six projects from which to tribute to the members of the committee for choose. I think that, at the end of the day, we the way in which the hearings were conducted. received a good product, and I am very I believe that this has been a very valuable satisfied with it. When one considers the cost exercise. Although we are still on a learning of similar projects, such as the Darling Harbour curve, I believe that we have learnt a lot over development, which cost in excess of 230 per the past 12 months. As the Deputy Premier cent more than it was scheduled to cost said this morning, if one goes back several originally, I think that we got a very good deal. years, one will remember that members received virtually no information at Budget The Opposition raised in the Reservations time. We did not debate all Estimates of all section the matter of school cleaners. I know departments; they were randomly selected, that my colleague the Minister for Education and members would debate probably half the clarified the number of cleaners involved. The departments during the Estimates debates. Opposition also raised in the Reservations When one considers the information that is section the question of who had control over provided to members, one realises that it really school cleaners. The principal of the school is outstanding. The Portfolio Program has the overall control of people working on Statements for Administrative Services contain the school premises, including all cleaners and 70-odd pages of information for members to maintenance workers. However, the employer digest. Those statements exposed the will be the Q-Clean business unit, which will department warts and all and provided plenty have other aspects of control. The school of information on which to base questions. I principals will still hold the same degree of thank members of the committee. control over the cleaning staff as they would over plumbers, carpenters, electricians or The member for Beaudesert raised a painters who they may engage to undertake question about the legal action against the work at the schools. There will still be that State Purchasing Council. I am pleased to control by the school principals. As I said to inform Mr Lingard that a conference was held Opposition members during the Estimates late last week, and the matter has been committee hearing, the situation is similar to resolved. A settlement was reached at that schools buying their maintenance services; conference, and the total cost to the they will be buying their cleaning services in department was some $7,000. Yes, we are the same way. aware of that, and we are now going to address it. We will have a look at where we go The honourable member for Hinchinbrook from there. So yes, it was something that we raised the very important subject of were concerned about, and we will certainly be telecommunications and the IT and T industry. addressing it. It is a very exciting industry that is changing virtually daily. It is an industry that this I read the Reservations section of the Government takes very seriously. The report. In it, the Opposition raised the question Government has in place a number of of the design and construct method of organisations, both within my ministerial procurement and criticised that method being responsibility and outside my ministerial used for the Brisbane Convention and responsibility, that are looking at this industry Exhibition Centre. Although it was a with a view to attracting as much of it to recommendation of the PSMC and it was also Queensland as possible. We believe that we a Public Works Committee recommendation are very well placed strategically to attract that the design and construct method should information technology and be used only under certain circumstances, I telecommunications to Queensland, and we point out that both of those committees will certainly be doing that. However, as I reported in October and November 1993, pointed out at the committee hearings, we will Legislative Assembly 12501 13 June 1995 not be doing that at any cost because, as the As the Estimates committee heard, the member quite rightly pointed out, the danger proposed south coast motorway is the only exists of putting our own local business sensible solution to the problem of providing community at a disadvantage. better road transport systems to service the Time expired. rapidly expanding Gold Coast corridor and to link it with Brisbane. For the benefit of the Hon. K. W. HAYWARD (Kallangur— member for Toowoomba North, because he Minister for Transport and Minister Assisting has obviously not grasped the notion of doing the Premier on Economic and Trade business with the private sector, and for the Development) (9.44 p.m.): In responding to benefit of many other Opposition members, I the report of Estimates Committee F, I am reiterate in simple and clear terms that, in the pleased to note the committee's endorsement final analysis, funding for the south coast for the budgeting priorities and the course motorway will come from tolls paid by the being pursued by the Government in the area motorway users. Funding will not come from of transport. the Queensland taxpayers. I repeat: funding I take this opportunity to thank the will come from the people who actually use the members of Estimates Committee F, motorway. particularly the chairman, the honourable Currently, plans for the motorway project member for Kurwongbah, and all of those have been released for expressions of people who participated in the process. There interest. That process provides competent can be no doubt that the process has led to private sector entities with the opportunity to an increase in accountability, both from the show, in general terms, how they would build point of view of the Opposition as well as the this road and how they would fund that Government. I take this opportunity to thank construction. It may be that some private my staff, particularly my ministerial staff and people may seek a contribution from QIFF. It departmental staff, for the effort that they may be also that the whole of the funding will have put into the preparation of the Estimates be found through private consortiums who are for Estimates Committee F. I want to thank prepared to put together the funding particularly the Director-General of Queensland packages and who will require no QIFF Transport, Mr Geoff Stevenson, and the Chief contribution. However, once and for all, let me Executive Officer of Queensland Rail, Mr Vince make it clear that any decision to use or not to O'Rourke, for the effort and determination that use a QIFF investment in the project will be they put into the process, particularly their based on the commercial realities. Of course, involvement in ensuring that the briefings that in the end, we will be guided by the best I received were appropriate and timely. I interests of Queenslanders and, ultimately, the take this opportunity to touch on some of the financial market—how money can be raised by issues raised during the hearings and which the successful consortiums within the market. were referred to in the committee's report. I We will balance any investment decision and want to make particular reference to an issue all the other considerations against that return that was raised a number of times during the to Queenslanders. Nevertheless, as I have Estimates committee hearings, that is, the acknowledged, the Pacific Highway has an south coast motorway. Of course, there can important role to play now and in the future. be no doubt that an additional road corridor That is why, over the past five years, the State between Brisbane and the Gold Coast is Government has spent $104m on upgrading necessary. That fact has been well and widening the highway. Over the next five established. All of the participants involved in years, it will spend a further $100m. the debate are very clear about that. Even the most vocal opponents, the members of VETO, Time expired. have come forward with their suggestions. Report adopted. They have acknowledged that additional lanes Remaining clauses and Schedules to the Gold Coast need to be built. Their agreed to. suggestion is simply that we should make the Pacific Highway bigger and bigger. When they Bills reported, without amendment. say that, they are really talking about a Reports adopted. proposal that would lead to a 16-lane highway from Brisbane to the Gold Coast. That is a very unacceptable solution because, in clear Third Reading and specific terms, it does not provide a Bills, on motion of Mr Mackenroth, by long-term solution to the problem. leave, read a third time. 13 June 1995 12502 Legislative Assembly

ADJOURNMENT they are not exploited. The average tag-and- Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH release figure for the game fishing industry (Chatsworth—Leader of the House) there is 90 per cent. During the Lexus Classic (9.51 p.m.): I move— this year, 100 per cent of marlin caught will be tagged and released. They face a far better "That the House do now adjourn." fate than the scores killed each week by Mike Rowley's boats. Marlin Slaughter TEC 4 was set up in 1980 by Peter Nixon, Mr PERRETT (Barambah) (9.51 p.m.): the then Federal Minister for Primary Industry, At 7 o'clock tonight, a Melbourne seafood to protect billfish from Japanese long-line wholesaler was due to take delivery of a large operations. It was later extended to the south consignment of fish fillets for sale tomorrow at and became known as TEC 4 area E. There is the Prahran markets. Those fillets are from currently a limit of 500 on the number of hooks marlin slaughtered in a protected zone off that licensees are supposed to run inside that Cairns by the crews of two long-line tuna area. The taking of black and blue marlin boats. The fish were killed by crews working for within the zone is totally precluded, and any a man convicted of a number of fisheries marlin taken must be returned to the water, charges but who is still on the Federal dead or alive. Mike Rowley is a member of Government's East Coast Tuna Management ECTUNAMAC, which meets in Cairns on Advisory Committee—ECTUNAMAC. Mike Thursday to decide whether to increase the Rowley runs Seafood Management Pty Ltd. long-line fishing effort in TEC 4 area E. Rowley and, on Thursday, as part of ECTUNAMAC will wants the number of hooks increased to vote on his own proposal to license even more between 1,000 and 1,500, and the number of long-line boats to chase marlin. licences to be increased. Indeed, he has two more big, modern long-liners on the way to Earlier tonight, a Rowley long-liner, Australia to join those that he has at the Fortuna Two, was due to leave Cairns for moment—Fortuna Two and Sarah Jay. another trip into the restricted zone, known as TEC 4 area E, in the Coral Sea off Cairns. On Rowley's proposal is opposed by the the evidence of Rowley's former manager in Queensland Commercial Fishermen's Cairns, David Armstrong, Fortuna Two will Organisation, the Cairns Professional Game return in five days or so with a five-tonne tuna Fishing Association, the Independent Boat catch and about 10 marlin. A tiny proportion of Owners Association, the Surfrider Foundation the marlin catch will go to Japan to the Daito and local tuna fishermen in Cairns. All support Gyoru Company in Tokyo—at $21 a kilo—if it a ban on the commercial taking of marlin in is fatty enough. The rest will be dumped or Queensland, and the QCFO wants that ban to sold at $6.50 a kilo to Australian buyers, such be Australiawide. The State must take the as Claringbolds Seafoods at the Prahran lead of Ian Causley, who introduced such a markets. ban in New South Wales waters before the Fahey Government lost office. Queensland Each week, scores of marlin die to satisfy must also take a greater interest in monitoring Rowley's greed for the small percentage of activities in State waters. If the Boating and fatty flesh—only on striped marlin—favoured Fisheries Patrol had the money to use its by the Japanese market. But the right fish can Cairns-based fast patrol boat, that would be a be identified only once they reach Rowley's good start. It is also necessary for the Cairns Cairns factory. Armstrong also says that harbourmaster's office to verify the tonnage Fortuna Two will stream lines with up to 1,500 that Rowley's boats bring in, rather than take hooks—three times the legal limit. When his word, as is the current practice. marlin are brought alongside, they will be clubbed and shot to death in clear contravention of the licence conditions. The Prince Charles Hospital heads will be cut off the fish before they are Mr T. B. SULLIVAN (Chermside) landed in Cairns—handy to hide evidence of (9.56 p.m.): I rise to inform the Parliament of the way of death. yet another great milestone that has been Marlin are the lifeblood of the game achieved by a medical unit at the Prince fishing industry. Last year's Lexus Classic Charles Hospital, which is located in the yielded Cairns $10m in four days, and the electorate of Chermside. On 2 June this year, professional game fishing industry is worth the Prince Charles Hospital celebrated the $25m a year to Cairns alone. The entire east successful transplanting of over 100 hearts. coast yellowfin tuna industry is worth only $5m About 70 heart recipients gathered with their a year. Marlin are big business for Cairns, but families to thank the medical, nursing and Legislative Assembly 12503 13 June 1995 support personnel at the Prince Charles in either Sydney or Melbourne, and there is a Hospital who gave them a second chance at great need for a Queensland unit to be life. established. The Heart Failure and Transplant Unit was The very real problem for Queensland officially established on 2 June 1990. Prior to patients is the disadvantage of distance and the establishment of the unit, patients the logistics of getting the donor organ and throughout Queensland requiring cardiac the recipient in the one place within the transplantation had to go to St Vincents useable time frame for the donor organ. The Hospital in Sydney. The establishment of the optimal time frame for a donor lung organ is Queensland unit meant that such patients no six hours. Each hour after that up to a possible longer had to leave their families behind, as 12 hours is of decreasing transportation was often the case, because of distance, time success rate value. The Melbourne unit away from work and financial constraints. This requires the recipient—once he or she is on deprived transplant patients of the very the waiting list—to live in Melbourne for six important family support infrastructure which is months prior to transplantation. It can take 12 highly advantageous to recovery. to 18 months or more before the recipient is The first transplant at the Queensland unit even on the waiting list. was performed on 29 June 1990. The Dr McNeil and the team are perfectly recipient was Mr Lynn Walker from Oakey, competent, more than highly qualified and who is alive and well today. To date, 109 trained in overseas internationally recognised transplants have been performed, the units to carry out lung transplantations at the youngest recipient being a nine-year-old boy Queensland Prince Charles Hospital. A who is back at school and doing very well. The Queensland heart/lung transplant unit would representative who spoke on behalf of the be of crucial benefit to Queensland patients recipients at the function was a man whom I requiring that service. At present, patients are had the privilege of teaching when he was in greatly disadvantaged by time, distance and Year 8 more than two decades ago. monetary constraints—some to the point of The Prince Charles Hospital transplant fatality. I have spoken to the Honourable Garry unit is a world-class unit with a one to two-year Johns and Wayne Swan seeking their support survival rate above the international standard for the unit to be established at the Prince of 87 per cent. Queensland has an average of Charles Hospital. The hospital itself is in Garry 88 per cent, which is equal to the Australian Johns' electorate, while the Cystic Fibrosis average. The present composition of the Foundation has its headquarters at Rainbow transplant team is Dr Andrew Galbraith, the House, which is in Mr Swan's electorate. cardiologist who is the medical director of the Sufferers of cystic fibrosis will benefit greatly unit; Dr Robert Tam, a cardio-thoracic surgeon; from a lung transplantation unit being Dr Peter Tesar, cardiac surgeon; Dr Keith established in this State. Both Federal McNeil, a respiratory physician who has members have spoken personally to the recently come back from overseas; Ms Jo Federal Health Minister, Dr Carmen Lawrence, Maddicks, a registered nurse and transplant and are pursuing the matter on behalf of coordinator; as well as a number of allied Queenslanders. health support staff, medical registrars, One other important matter is donor physiotherapists, social workers and so on. awareness, because one of the major At present, the unit is undertaking only restrictions within the transplantation program cardiac transplantations but is waiting for the is the availability of suitable donor organs. The go-ahead for lung transplantation. Currently, best way to overcome this is for people to submissions supporting the immediate need become aware of the invaluable gift of life that for the funding to proceed are before the organ donorship represents. People who wish Federal and State Governments. The unit to be organ donors in the advent of their expected such information from the Federal death should talk about it openly with their Government in May, as the unit has already families so that their families are aware of their been assessed and a favourable outcome is wishes and will see that they are carried out. I confidently expected. As in the case of cardiac congratulate those who are already carrying transplantation in Queensland, thoracic out transplants at the Prince Charles Hospital. patients must travel interstate to other already I hope that the Federal Government will make pressured units and often do so at the risk of the decision to establish a third Australian unit fatality. At present, Queensland patients at the Prince Charles Hospital. requiring lung transplantation must go to units Time expired. 13 June 1995 12504 Legislative Assembly

Unemployment responding to it. I believed that that was a Mr LAMING (Mooloolah) (10.01 p.m.): I lousy report and I was moved to respond to it rise to speak in the Adjournment debate on and also make a submission to the White Australia's unemployment level, which I Paper which ultimately was produced in the believe is this country's greatest social middle of the year titled Working Nation. What problem. It leads to drug and alcohol abuse, a sad response Working Nation was to the violence, crime, family breakdown, suicide and unemployment problem in Australia! It was general despair among many of our young simply full of platitudes. It was Jobstart people. The level of unemployment is worse revisited. About the only measure of any value than is reported, as those who are recorded as included in that document was the introduction employed are those who might have worked of a training wage. That was a good initiative. for as little as one hour in the week surveyed. But where was the slashing of the business costs to which companies trying to employ It is not my intention to argue with the people are subjected? Where was the figures or the monthly variations which are slashing of red tape with which people in thrown back and forth across this Chamber as business must deal? Where were the real though we were playing some sort of a game. industrial relations programs that actually We should adopt a very responsible attitude encouraged people to recruit new employees? when considering the issue of endemic Where were the real no-strings-attached unemployment in this country. I believe that programs for jobs subsidies for employers? the number of unemployed people is closer to They simply did not exist. Where were the one million than the figures we read in the offers from the Commonwealth to turn dole newspapers, because many people have payments to people who were not doing simply given up looking for work in this country. anything into subsidies for the States so that That is a great tragedy, it is a wasted resource they could employ more police, teachers and and it is a social disgrace. nurses? Real initiatives that could have helped Unemployment is seen as a Federal solve the problem were nowhere to be found. Government responsibility. I suppose that is One possibility was to introduce the because the Federal Government is called pension at an earlier age. The Federal upon to pay unemployment relief or the dole. I Government could have introduced income believe that that is a shortcoming, because splitting for families for the purposes of the States employ large numbers of people taxation. Where were the real initiatives and private enterprises within the States through payroll tax provisions for job sharing? employ the majority of people. To my mind, Working Nation is proving to be exactly what I this throws great doubt on the shared predicted it would be: a failure. The Federal responsibilities between Federal and State Government stands condemned in pursuing Governments. State Governments can discard such marginal issues as a proposed republic workers at no cost, but it is a cost to the while presiding over such a disgraceful social Federal Government, which does not have the and economic disaster as Australia's ability to employ people that the States do. institutionalised, long-term unemployment. This issue should be considered more fully when examining the various shared responsibilities between State and Federal Intensive Care Nursery, Mater Hospital Governments. Mr BRISKEY (Cleveland) (10.06 p.m.): I Mr Mackenroth: You're talking with rise to speak about a group of special people your hand in your pocket. who work in a special place and provide extra Mr LAMING: I am quite relaxed. special care. On behalf of me and hundreds of However, we should not be relaxed on this other parents, I thank Dr David Tudehope, the subject; we should take it much more director of neonatology, nurse manager Avril seriously. We can indulge in some humour in Robinson and all doctors and nursing staff of this House, but many people would not view the intensive care nursery at the Mater this issue with the levity that we sometimes Hospital. Those parents who have not display in this Chamber. experienced a child being admitted to that nursery really cannot understand what other In 1993, the Federal Government parents go through. released a Green Paper titled Restoring Full Employment. Members might be interested to My wife and I have had three healthy know that I made a submission to that daughters and were blessed with our first son, document. I was very disappointed in that William James, who was born on 1 May this Green Paper. It was released on Christmas year. He was taken to the special care nursery Eve 1993, and I spent Christmas Eve immediately with what his paediatrician Legislative Assembly 12505 13 June 1995 diagnosed as a regressive lung disease. That Minister is the implementation of section 19(4), was a very stressful time for me and my family. which states that a licence holder must provide I am aware that the parents of every child who and maintain a safe environment in and is admitted to that nursery go through a great around the licensed premises. I am concerned deal of stress. Unfortunately, young Bill had to particularly about the words "around the be ventilated through that period. I rise tonight licensed premises", which seem to refer to to thank most sincerely the staff who looked outside the premises in question. Licensees after him. They showed an extraordinary level do not have policing powers. To what extent of care, consideration and compassion. They will this regulation be implemented? Will should be thanked by every parent, and I am licensees be taken to court and prosecuted for sure that every parent whose child goes failing to prevent incidents which occur outside through that place does so. their premises? I will be seeking clarification on The most important thing that struck me this matter. One pub in my electorate has a while sitting there watching Bill day after day taxi rank outside. Does this section of the Act was the time spent by the staff in explaining mean that that licensee will be responsible for the procedures that they were undertaking. I people who get plastered somewhere else thank them most sincerely for that. Our little and who use the taxi rank located outside bloke was full term, and some little ones those premises? Such people could be spend three or four months in the intensive classified as being around the premises of that care nursery. I know that the staff become pub, and I would be very concerned if this very close to those babies. We were extremely section will penalise the licensees who have grateful that our son was able to leave that not contributed to any incidents that may nursery after six days. occur. Having said that, I want to make it clear that I support measures to ensure the safety The staff of the nursery adopt the of people in or near such premises. philosophy that there is an interdependence between the babies and their parents. In I think that this Government is actually caring for the babies within the intensive and starting to soften its view towards the special care units, the staff recognise also the Sunshine Coast toll road. Has this arrogant special needs of their parents. That is a most Government finally decided to listen to the important role played by the staff of the people? Things are sounding encouraging; intensive care nursery. Once again, I place on the Opposition has been lobbying the record my thanks and the thanks of hundreds Government for a long time. It is an arrogant of parents who have had their young ones Government that does not listen even to the cared for within that nursery. Labor battlers who are hurting because of this toll. However, maybe the Government is starting to get our message. We will know in Liquor Regulation Amendments the next few weeks if it is getting that message Miss SIMPSON (Maroochydore) from the people, particularly the Labor battlers (10.09 p.m.): I take this opportunity to raise who do not have a lot of cash to spare for the the issue of amendments to the liquor toll road. I have taken a deputation to the regulations. Those amendments are aimed Minister on this matter as well. specifically at trying to prevent binge drinking. When it comes to the lands titles fraud That is a very important step. This issue has scandal that has occurred under this been of major concern to residents on the Government, all I can say is, "We told you so." Sunshine Coast and to those in other regions I have criticised the Goss Government before of Queensland. I am pleased that our lobbying for the loopholes that it has created under the has proved fruitful. To highlight the concern new titling laws that have helped the shonkies about this issue, I took a deputation to the cause great distress to home and property Minister about this matter and related matters. owners. At the time, the Government said, I believe that these amendments go a long "Trust us", but once again we cannot trust this way towards addressing those very real arrogant Government. I do not have a concerns, and they will be welcomed in the problem with computerisation as long as there community. We do not mind people having a is a hard copy safeguard which gives some drink, but we do not want to see young people legal means of security. Those loopholes are in particular encouraged to get absolutely the problem with that system. The plastered under deals which offer free drinks Government says, "Things are fine, just trust for two hours, three drinks for the price of one us", but, of course, it has hit the fan. and so on. Massive changes to the Valuation of The only concern that I still hold on which Land Act will cost Queenslanders hundreds of I will be seeking further answers from the thousands of dollars extra in land tax. It will 13 June 1995 12506 Legislative Assembly cause confusion to council rates. Is it not we do not want the 16-lane road system that strange that this legislation is suddenly beyond has been promoted for the Pacific Highway the hill of the election? It is a bit like the green around the suburb of Springwood. The real levies—the green whammies—that the answer to this problem is to get people to use Government is proposing; they are coming but public transport. the Government does not want to let the We must increase the 11 per cent rate of people know the full impact of them. This will commuters using public transport. One of the have an impact, because it has the potential ways that can be done is through the to send land taxes sky high in Queensland. It coordination of transport services and has the potential to reap a massive windfall of particularly coordination of fares. I have here land tax for the Government and it has the an electronic ticket issued by the Brisbane City potential to confuse the whole rates structure Council. Electronic ticketing has made that a within councils. People in some quarters will possibility. When I was involved with transport have to battle to fight potential increases in in the Brisbane City Council, that system was council rates. Of course, that will flow on from tried back in the eighties but it failed for the what has been proposed to date for the simple reason that the system did not changes to the Valuation of Land Act. apportion the costs evenly. With electronic Strangely, that matter has been pushed ticketing, something can now be done about beyond the horizon of the election so that the it, and it has to be done because, in many people are not told about it. Again, the cases, we could be transporting people by the Government says, "Trust us." optimum means of transport instead of by Also waiting till after the election are those inefficient transport. Of course, this means that environmental levies—the green whammies— we assemble all the transport services that will even hammer the poor old vet who together to provide a single service; we do not wants to keep animals in his business run them separately. overnight. Small-businesses will not know what The Cityxpress system which I introduced has hit them, but again this arrogant was planned on the basis that it would pick up Government says, "Trust us." people along the way who were coming off I refer now to tourism grants. This feeder services. That all went by the board arrogant Government cannot stop lying. It has when the Atkinson council took over. Then the been letter-dropping, telling porkies dressed system failed to produce the results that were up as pork-barrelling on the Sunshine Coast. originally expected with the 1,000 people a For example, the $400,000 it boasted that it week who were going to increase the has given since 1990 to promote tourism on patronage of Cityxpress. It is time that the Sunshine Coast means that there has not something is done about this matter. been an increase in real funding to this very During the Estimates committee, the important regional body since this Labor Minister said that coordination of transport will Government took over. This arrogant be part of the system of the Gold Coast Government has been in power for six years railway. That railway certainly does not go to and the budgeted extra $4.5m was supposed the Gold Coast; it is the Holm-Earle railway to to go to regional tourism in the next financial service the developments in the National Party year, but I understand that tourism on the strongholds along the way. That service needs Sunshine Coast will get none of this to to be connected all the way to the Gold Coast. operate. In fact, its funding is reduced by about 2 per cent. Youth unemployment is very It is not only the Brisbane area and the high, yet this Government will not support Gold Coast area that need coordination of tourism on the Sunshine Coast. transport. It is needed right throughout the State. It is one of the disappointments of my Time expired. time in this place that we have not been able to get further down that road. Unfortunately, a Public Transport Coordination couple of years ago when railway services were being cut back instead of being Mr ARDILL (Archerfield) (10.14 p.m.): promoted heavily we lost our way. However, One of the real problems that exists in the last that coordination still needs to occur. few years of this century and that will continue to exist well into the next century is the The present chief executive, Vince problem of too many people using too many O'Rourke, and his officers have introduced motor cars on roads. This problem needs to through ticketing, to some extent, on the Spirit be remedied for a number of reasons. We do of the Outback, which connects with the bus to not want to see our cities disappear into the Winton, and the Westlander, which takes sort of road system found in Los Angeles, and passengers to Charleville and on to Quilpie Legislative Assembly 12507 13 June 1995 and Cunnamulla. That type of service needs coordination of passenger transport right to occur right throughout the State. His officers around the State. We should use the railways in the Central Station travel agency, which is as the principal long-distance service with very efficient, are already providing that overnight sleepers and then bus connections. service, but of course one ticket cannot be I certainly would not promote the idea of issued for a trip that goes all the way to those overnight bus services. That would not be a remote towns. That service needs to be sensible initiative; only the very young, very fit provided, and electronic ticketing is the way to and able are capable of using those services solve that problem. effectively. A problem that I hope the Government Time expired. will tackle in the near future—and I hope to Motion agreed to. see this solved within three years—is to have The House adjourned at 10.19 p.m.