Legislative Assembly of Alberta the 30Th Legislature Second Session
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Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 30th Legislature Second Session Select Special Committee on Real Property Rights Thursday, July 8, 2021 9 a.m. Transcript No. 30-2-4 Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 30th Legislature Second Session Select Special Committee on Real Property Rights Sigurdson, R.J., Highwood (UC), Chair Rutherford, Brad, Leduc-Beaumont (UC), Deputy Chair Ganley, Kathleen T., Calgary-Mountain View (NDP) Glasgo, Michaela L., Brooks-Medicine Hat (UC) Goodridge, Laila, Fort McMurray-Lac La Biche (UC) Hanson, David B., Bonnyville-Cold Lake-St. Paul (UC) Milliken, Nicholas, Calgary-Currie (UC) Nielsen, Christian E., Edmonton-Decore (NDP) Orr, Hon. Ronald, Lacombe-Ponoka (UC) Reid, Roger W., Livingstone-Macleod (UC)* Rowswell, Garth, Vermilion-Lloydminster-Wainwright (UC) Schmidt, Marlin, Edmonton-Gold Bar (NDP) Sweet, Heather, Edmonton-Manning (NDP) * substitution for Laila Goodridge Support Staff Shannon Dean, QC Clerk Teri Cherkewich Law Clerk Trafton Koenig Senior Parliamentary Counsel Vani Govindarajan Legal Counsel Philip Massolin Clerk Assistant and Director of House Services Michael Kulicki Clerk of Committees and Research Services Sarah Amato Research Officer Melanie Niemi-Bohun Research Officer Nancy Robert Clerk of Journals and Research Officer Warren Huffman Committee Clerk Jody Rempel Committee Clerk Aaron Roth Committee Clerk Rhonda Sorensen Manager of Corporate Communications Janet Laurie Supervisor of Corporate Communications Jeanette Dotimas Communications Consultant Michael Nguyen Communications Consultant Tracey Sales Communications Consultant Janet Schwegel Director of Parliamentary Programs Amanda LeBlanc Deputy Editor of Alberta Hansard Transcript produced by Alberta Hansard July 8, 2021 Real Property Rights RP-43 9 a.m. Thursday, July 8, 2021 Mr. Rowswell: MLA Rowswell, Vermilion-Lloydminster-Wain- Title: Thursday, July 8, 2021 rp wright. [Mr. Sigurdson in the chair] The Chair: Excellent. The Chair: I’d like to call this meeting of the Select Special For the record I will note the following substitution: we have Committee on Real Property Rights to order and welcome everyone MLA Reid for MLA Goodridge. in attendance. A few housekeeping items to address before we turn to the My name is R.J. Sigurdson, MLA for Highwood and chair of the business at hand. Pursuant to the June 30, 2021, memo from the committee. I’d ask that the members and those joining the hon. Speaker Cooper I would remind members that pandemic committee at the table introduce themselves for the record, and then restrictions on Assembly committees have now been lifted. Masks I will call on those joining in by videoconference. We will begin in are now optional for those attending committee meetings in person, person to my right. but members may continue to participate in meetings by video- conference. Mr. Rutherford: Good morning. Brad Rutherford, MLA, Leduc- Please note that the microphones are operated by Hansard staff. Beaumont. Committee proceedings are live streamed on the Internet and broadcast on Alberta Assembly TV. The audio- and videostream Mr. Milliken: Good morning, everybody. Nicholas Milliken, and transcripts of meetings can be accessed via the Legislative MLA, Calgary-Currie. Assembly website. Ms Sweet: Good morning, everyone. Heather Sweet, MLA, Those participating by videoconference are asked to please turn Edmonton-Manning. on your camera while speaking and to mute your microphone when not speaking. Members participating virtually who wish to be Mr. Nielsen: Good morning. Chris Nielsen, MLA for Edmonton- placed on a speakers list are asked to e-mail or send a message in Decore. the group chat to the committee clerk, and members in the room are asked to please signal the chair. Please set your cellphones and other Mr. Schmidt: Marlin Schmidt, Edmonton-Gold Bar. devices to silent for the duration of the meeting. Approval of the agenda. Are there any changes or additions to the Ms Govindarajan: Vani Govindarajan, office of Parliamentary draft agenda? Counsel. If not, would somebody like to make a motion to approve the Mr. Kulicki: Good morning. Michael Kulicki, clerk of committees agenda? and research services. Mr. Milliken: Motion to approve. Good morning. Warren Huffman, committee clerk. Mr. Huffman: The Chair: Moved by MLA Milliken that the agenda for the July The Chair: We will now go to those joining virtually to introduce 8, 2021, meeting of the Select Special Committee on Real Property themselves, starting with MLA Glasgo. We don’t seem to be able Rights be adopted as distributed. All those in person in favour, say to hear MLA Glasgo. We’ll come back to her. aye. All those opposed in person? All those in favour on video- Next we have MLA Reid. Oh for two. We seem to be having conference? All opposed on videoconference? Hearing none, thank some audio problems. you. That motion is carried. Next can we try MLA Hanson? Approval of minutes. Next we have the draft minutes of our June We’re just going to pause for a sec and see if we can get some of 24, 2021, meeting. Are there any errors or omissions to note? these technical issues fixed with our videoconferencing just to make If not, would a member like to make a motion to approve the sure that we can get our MLAs heard here. We’re just going to pause minutes? MLA Nielsen. Moved by MLA Nielsen that the minutes for a quick couple of minutes here. I apologize for the inconvenience. of the June 24, 2021, meeting of the Select Special Committee on Real Property Rights be approved as distributed. All those in Mr. Hanson: They usually do a sound check before we start the person in favour, say aye. All those in person opposed, say nay. meeting. Can you hear me okay? All those on videoconference in favour? All those on videoconference opposed? Hearing none, thank you. That motion The Chair: We can hear you now. Maybe we’ll start again. We’ll is carried. see if the problem has been corrected. We’ll go right back to MLA Next we have business arising from the report of the sub- Glasgo. committee on committee business. Going to (a), recommendations MLA Glasgo, can you introduce yourself? on stakeholder lists and written submissions, hon. members, the subcommittee on committee business met on June 29 to discuss a Ms Glasgo: Good morning. MLA Michaela Glasgo, Brooks- number of issues, including stakeholder lists, written submissions Medicine Hat. Nice to see you and hear you now. from stakeholders, and public meetings. The report on the The Chair: Excellent. Perfect. subcommittee’s recommendations to the committee was made Next MLA Reid. available to members on July 5. The subcommittee’s report provides the stakeholder lists that were received from both parties, Mr. Reid: Good morning. MLA Roger Reid, Livingstone- and the subcommittee recommends that the committee invite these Macleod. stakeholders to provide written submissions to the committee, with a two-week submission period. The report also recommends that The Chair: Next we have MLA Hanson. the subcommittee evaluate the written submissions and recommend Mr. Hanson: Hi. Dave Hanson, Bonnyville-Cold Lake-St. Paul. which stakeholders to invite for oral presentations and that only stakeholders who have provided a written submission be considered The Chair: And next we have MLA Rowswell. to provide an oral presentation. RP-44 Real Property Rights July 8, 2021 At this time do members have any comments on the sub- Mr. Milliken: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess what I just want to committee’s recommendations relating to the stakeholder lists and say is that I happen to be on the subcommittee, and I, personally, written submissions from stakeholders? MLA Sweet. really enjoyed the time that we spent here under the subcommittee. It was an opportunity for all sides to work amicably together. Ms Sweet: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think I’m looking for some If anything, I’m just slightly disheartened that it took us T minus clarity. Obviously, I’m not on the subcommittee, so I’m not sure I three minutes of talking for the canned lines to come from the have all the information about the conversations that have occurred opposition about “open and transparent.” I think that they’re when it relates to this topic. Part of the questions and thoughts that worried about things like asking for written submissions prior to I have are that when the subcommittee made the recommendation getting oral submissions so that we as a committee can make sure that only those who have provided a written submission will then that we stay on track and do things very, very effectively along with be able to present orally, I feel like that’s a little bit counter to the the fact that they’re saying that they have a problem with the fact fact that we have been discussing in this committee about touring that the subcommittee heard from the opposition with regard to a and going around to different locations and hearing from Albertans fulsome list of stakeholders that they wanted to hear from. What did and being able to have a fulsome consultation. I guess, for me, the the draconian subcommittee go and do? They accepted your whole part that doesn’t make sense is: why, then, all of a sudden would list. We accepted the whole list. there be a limitation on who gets to present to the committee if you What we’re doing in an open and transparent manner is making haven’t presented a written submission? I mean, that’s one question sure that everybody that you want to hear from gets that that I have when, you know, we’re supposed to be open and opportunity. The easiest way to do that and the best way to do that, transparent and making sure that Albertans feel like they can to ensure that we actually use our time here appropriately, is to participate.