Vol. 249 Monday No. 33 5 August, 2019 14 Shravana, 1941 (Saka)
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES RAJYA SABHA OFFICIAL REPORT (English Version)
CONTENTS
Papers laid on the Table (pages 1-3)
Reports on Participation of Indian Parliamentary Delegations at International Conferences – Laid on the Table (page 3)
Messages from Lok Sabha — The Dam Safety Bill, 2019 – Laid on the Table (page 3) The Airports Economic Regulatory Authority of India (Amendment) Bill, 2019– Reported (pages 83-84) The Motor Vehicles (Amendment), Bill 2019 – Reported (pages 83-84) The National Medical Commission Bill, 2019 – Reported (pages 83-84) The Transgender Persons (Protection of Rights) Bill, 2019 – Laid on the Table (page 120) The Surrogacy (Regulation) Bill, 2019 – Laid on the Table (page 162)
Resignation by Members – Accepted (page 4)
Recommendations of the Business Advisory Committee (page 4)
Statement by Minister correcting Answer to Question (page 4)
[P.T.O.
© RAJYA SABHA SECRETARIAT NEW DELHI Price : ` 100.00 Observation by the Chair (pages 5-9)
Statutory Resolutions— Cessation of all Clauses of Article 370 except Clause (1) - Adopted (pages 10-11, 21-82, 84-112 and 133-161) The Jammu and Kashmir Re-organisation Bill, 2019 - Adopted (pages 11-18, 21-82, 84-112 and 133-161)
Government Bills— The Jammu and Kashmir Re-organisation Bill, 2019 – Passed (pages 11-18, 21-82, 84-112 and 133-161) The Jammu and Kashmir Reservation (Second Amendment) Bill, 2019 – Passed (pages 21-82, 84-112 and 133-161)
Withdrawal of Members (pages 18-21)
Matters raised with Permission— Problems of unauthorised colonies and constructions in Delhi (pages 112- 113) Destruction of the Aravali Hills (pages 114-115) Need for mandatory training in schools for life-saving skills in Disaster Management (page 115) Menace of female foeticide in the country (pages 115-117) Urgent need to implement directive of the National Green Tribunal on protection of Western Ghats (page 117) Need for introduction and passing of the Women’s Reservation Bill (pages 118-119) Non-disbursal of claims by insurance companies (page 119)
Special Mentions — Laid on the Table Demand to issue identity cards to all the Handicraft Artisans of Odisha and share the data of the same with the Government of Odisha (page 120-121) Demand to formulate and implement suitable measures for proper disposal and recycling of Lithiumion batteries (page 121) Demand to stop the killing of elephants for consumption of their meat (page 121)
Website : http://rajyasabha.nic.in http://parliamentofindia.nic.in E-mail : [email protected] RAJYA SABHA
Monday, the 5th August, 2019/14th Shravana, 1941 (Saka)
The House met at eleven of the clock, MR. CHAIRMAN in the Chair.
PAPER LAID ON THE TABLE
MR. CHAIRMAN: Papers to be laid on the Table of the House.
Report and Accounts (2017-18) of BPCL, Naini, Allahabad and related papers
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS; AND THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI V. MURALEEDHARAN): Sir, on behalf of my colleague, Shri Arjun Ram Meghwal, I lay on the Table—
(1) A copy each (in English and Hindi) of the following papers, under sub- section (1) (b) of Section 394 of the Companies Act, 2013:—
(a) Forty-eighth Annual Report and Accounts of the Bharat Pumps and Compressors Ltd. (BPCL), Naini, Allahabad, for the year 2017-18, together with the Auditor’s Report on the Accounts and the comments of the Comptroller and Auditor General of India thereon.
(b) Statement by Government accepting the above Report.
(2) Statement (in English and Hindi) giving reasons for the delay in laying the papers mentioned at (1) above. [Placed in Library. See No. L.T. 675/17/19]
Notifications of the Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HUMAN RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT; AND THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF ELECTRONICS AND INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY (SHRI DHOTRE SANJAY SHAMRAO): Sir, I lay on the Table, under sub-section (3) of Section 87 of the Information Technology Act, 2000, a copy each (in English and Hindi) of the following Notifications of the Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology:—
(1) G.S.R. 176 (E), dated the 5th March, 2019, publishing the Information Technology (Certifying Authorities) (Amendment) Rules, 2019. [Placed in Library. See No. L.T. 667/17/19] 2 Paper laid [RAJYA SABHA] on the Table
(2) S.O. 1119 (E), dated the 5th March, 2019, amending the Second Schedule to the Information Technology Act, to insert certain entries as mentioned therein. [Placed in Library. See No. L.T. 668/17/19]
I. Notifications of the Ministry of Finance.
II. Report and Accounts (2018-19) of NABARD, Mumbai and related papers.
III. Valuation Report of the LIC of India.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE; AND THE MINISTER OF CORPORATE AFFAIRS (SHRIMATI NIRMALA SITHARAMAN): Sir, I lay on the Table—
I. A copy each (in English and Hindi) of the following Notifications the Ministry of Finance (Department of Financial Services), under sub-section (2) of Section 30 of the Regional Rural Banks Act, 1976:—
(1) No. SGB (Service Amend) Regulations 2018, dated the 30th November, 2018, publishing the SUTLEJ GRAMIN BANK (Officers and Employees) Service (Amendment) Regulations, 2018.
(2) No. SGB (Pension Reg.) 2018, dated the 30th November, 2018, publishing the SUTLEJ GRAMIN BANK (Employees’) Pension Regulations, 2018.
(3) No. MGB Service Regulation (Amendment)/19, dated the 4th December, 2018, publishing the Malwa Gramin Bank (Officers and Employees) Service (Amendment) Regulations, 2018.
(4) F. No. MGB/Pension Regulation/01, dated the 4th December, 2018, publishing the Malwa Gramin Bank (Employees’) Pension Regulations, 2018.
(5) No. MBGB/HO/HRDD/11428/18/S, dated the 12th December, 2018, publishing the Madhya Bihar Gramin Bank (Officers and Employees’) Service (Amendment) Regulations, 2018.
(6) F. No. MBGB/HO/HRDD/11428/18/P, dated the 12th December, 2018, publishing the Madhya Bihar Gramin Bank (Employees’) Pension Regulations, 2018.
(7) F. No. 4341/2018-19, dated the 18th December, 2018, publishing the Bihar Gramin Bank (Officers and Employees) Service (Amendment) Regulations, 2018. Messages from [5 August, 2019] Lok Sabha 3
(8) F. No. 4341/2018-19, dated the 18th December, 2018, publishing the Bihar Gramin Bank (Employees’) Pension Regulations, 2018. [Placed in Library. For (1) to (8) See No. L.T. 72/17/19]
II. A copy each (in English and Hindi) of the following papers, under subsection (5) of Section 48 of the National Bank for Agriculture and Rural Development (NABARD) Act, 1981:—
(a) Annual Report and Accounts of the National Bank for Agriculture and Rural Development (NABARD), Mumbai, for the year 2018-19, together with the Auditor’s Report on the Accounts.
(b) Review by Government on the working of the above Bank. [Placed in Library. See No. L.T. 727/17/19]
III. A copy (in English and Hindi) of the Forty-ninth Valuation Report of the Life Insurance Corporation of India (LIC), as on 31st March, 2019, under Section 29 of the Life Insurance Corporation Act, 1956. [Placed in Library. See No. L.T. 728/17/19]
————
REPORTS ON PARTICIPATION OF INDIAN PARLIAMENTARY DELEGATIONS AT INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCES
SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, I lay on the Table, a copy each (in English and Hindi) of the Reports on the participation of the Indian Parliamentary Delegations at the 134th to 140th Statutory Assemblies of the Inter-Parliamentary Union.
————
MESSAGES FROM LOK SABHA
The Dam Safety Bill, 2019
SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, I have to report to the House the following message received from the Lok Sabha, signed by the Secretary-General of the Lok Sabha:
“In accordance with the provisions of rule 96 of the Rules of Procedure and conduct of Business in Lok Sabha, I am directed to enclose the Dam Safety Bill, 2019, as passed by Lok Sabha at its sitting held on the 2nd August, 2019.”
Sir, I lay a copy of the Bill on the Table.
———— 4 Statement by Minister [RAJYA SABHA] Correcting Answer to Question
RESIGNATION BY MEMBERS
MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, I have an announcement to make. I have to inform the Members that I have received letters, dated 2nd August, 2019 and 5th August, 2019, from hon. Members, Shri Surendra Singh Nagar, Shri Sanjay Seth, representing the State of Uttar Pradesh, and from hon. Member Shri Bhubaneswar Kalita, representing the State of Assam, resigning their respective seats in the Rajya Sabha. I have accepted their resignations with immediate effect from 2nd and 5th of August, 2019, after having met the hon. Members personally enquiring from them and verifying their handwritings and also asking them whether they had any re- thinking. They confirmed that they had done that voluntarily and they wanted their resignations to be immediately accepted. Hence, I have accepted the resignations of these three Members. ...(Interruptions)... Please, please, ...(Interruptions)...
————
RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE BUSINESS ADVISORY COMMITTEE
MR. CHAIRMAN: I have to inform the hon. Members that the Business Advisory Committee, in its meeting held on the 2nd August, 2019, has allotted time for Government Legislative Business, as follows:—
Business Time Allotted 1. Consideration and passing of the Jammu and Kashmir Reservation Two Hours (Second Amendment) Bill, 2019, after its introduction 2. Consideration and passing of the following Bills, after they are passed by Lok Sabha:- (a) The Dam Safety Bill, 2019 Two Hours (b) The Chit Funds (Amendment) Bill, 2019 Two Hours (c) The Supreme Court (Number of Judges) Amendment Bill, Three Hours 2019
————
STATEMENT BY MINISTER CORRECTING ANSWER TO QUESTION
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE; AND THE MINISTER OF CORPORATE AFFAIRS (SHRIMATI NIRMALA SITHARAMAN): Sir, I lay on the Table, a Statement (in English and Hindi) correcting the answer to Unstarred Question 830 given in the Rajya Sabha on the 18th December, 2018, regarding ‘Electoral Bonds Purchased’.
———— Observation by [5 August, 2019] the Chair 5
OBSERVATION BY THE CHAIR
MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, the greatest temple of the Indian republic, this Parliament House has completed 92 golden years of its existence. It is in this house that all political decisions are taken for this biggest democracy of the world. Ever since the freedom, the changing form of the Indian democracy has further enhanced the responsibilities of this greatest and sacred-most heritage of India. This has also expanded the expectations of the nation. In such situation, it is the expectation of all of us that the Parliament House of the greatest and the biggest democracy of the world is the most splendid and attractive. So on this occasion, on behalf of all of us, I would like to request Mr. Prime Minister and the Government that in the resolutions of the new India on the occasion of the 75th year of Independence in the year 2022, the expansion and the modernization of the Parliament House is also included.
On behalf of all the members of the House, I would like to assure the house and the nation that sanctity and the dignity of the Parliament House will be kept intact. The sum and substance of this is — because I do not have any other arrangement — that this Parliament has become a pretty old building. You are seeing, now and then, some or the other things happening. So, there has been a request by Members since long. Earlier, I was Minister of Urban Development and also the Parliamentary Affairs Minister. We met a number of times to modernise the building with all the facilities, which are comfortable for the Members. So, we have been appealing to the Government to consider this. Of course, before taking a final decision, they will consult us also, Rajya Sabha as well as Lok Sabha, to make it more comfortable, more functional and more useful for Members with all the modern facilities. That is the observation I have made, for your information.
Hon. Members, I have received notices under Rule 267 by Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad, the Leader of the Opposition, and some other Members, Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav, Shri Binoy Viswam, Shri Sanjay Singh and Shri Elamaram Kareem. Earlier this list had the name of Mr. Kalita also, but he has resigned since. His resignation has also been accepted. Hence it will not come. I have gone through the subject. The subject is, definitely, important. But, what I am suggesting is that I have received a letter from the hon. Home Minister that they want to introduce an Amendment Bill in the House, the Jammu and Kashmir Reservation (Second Amendment) Bill, 2019. We have already circulated that also. There are also some more legislations which the Government wants to propose. The subject is the same. So, I suggest these issues can be raised during the discussion. As the Chairman, I have waived the rule requiring advance notice, then, circulation beforehand and all. As the matter 6 Observation by [RAJYA SABHA] the Chair
[Mr. Chairman] is very important and serious, I have decided to waive that rule, according to the power given to the Chairman. Now, I will be asking the Minister to first introduce the Bill, and, then, during the discussion, all the issues raised by the LoP and others can be discussed at length. I will be allowing them and also give reasonable time, particularly, to the Members who have raised the issue, because we do not have Zero Hour. We cannot entertain that because this Session is basically extended for completing the Legislative Business proposed by the Government. You are all aware of it. So, I call upon Shri Amit Shah to move for leave to introduce the Jammu and Kashmir Reservation (Second Amendment) Bill, 2019. ...(Interruptions)... I have already said this. ...(Interruptions)...
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI AMIT SHAH): Chairman Sir, ...(Interruptions)...
THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD): Sir, they are totally different issues. ...(Interruptions)... The issue which we want to raise is about the prevailing situation in Jammu and Kashmir, ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please be seated; otherwise, it will not go on record. The LoP is speaking. Please be seated, Nothing will go on record.
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: The entire Valley is under curfew. Some parts of Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... That is also under Curfew, Kashmir is also under curfew. About 3 to 4 Chief Ministers and the leaders of many parties are also under house arrest. The entire State is in a situation that resembles a warlike situation. First of all, we must discuss that.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Along with this Bill, three Bills are coming. ...(Interruptions)...
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: We shall pass the Bill. We shall discuss the Bill. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: The resolutions are also coming. Along with them we can discuss all these together. ...(Interruptions)...
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: We have given the notice under the rule 267 ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Home Minister. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Chairman Sir, I have to say that. ...(Interruptions)...
†The speech delivered by the hon. Member in Urdu is available in the Floor Version. Observation by [5 August, 2019] the Chair 7
SHRI ELAMARAM KAREEM (Kerala): Sir, ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please, please, sit down. ...(Interruptions)... I have not permitted you. ...(Interruptions)... I have permitted only the LoP. ...(Interruptions)... I will permit you as the occasion comes ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Hon’ble Chairman Sir, I have to say that the resolution and the Bill, that I have come with pertains to Jammu and Kashmir.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Don’t show banners, please. Otherwise, I will have to ask these to be removed. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMTI SHAH: Mr. Chairman Sir, about Jammu and Kashmir, I am ready to have the debate with the leader of opposition and also with the entire opposition and also with the leaders of other parties in power. I am ready for all discussion and am also ready to make a reply to all the issues.
MR. CHAIRMAN: No display of banners, please. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Laway, both of you are important Members. ...(Interruptions)... You can protest, but that is not the way. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Sir, I am ready to respond to you till you are satisfied. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record except what the Home Minister says. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Ghulam Nabi ji, please listen to me. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: He is saying that he is ready to answer; what is your problem?
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN (West Bengal): Sir, I have a point of order. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: No, no; I have already given my ruling on this. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN: Sir, point of order. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: What is the point of order? ...(Interruptions)... What is the rule? ...(Interruptions)... Please. ...(Interruptions)... Not, everyday. ...(Interruptions)... Every day, it is not happening. ...(Interruptions)... Please. ...(Interruptions)... You can’t speak without my permission. ...(Interruptions)... Madhusudan Shastri ji, you are a senior member, please be seated. ...(Interruptions)... Shri P. L. Punia ji, please you should also go to your seat. ...(Interruptions)... What is the rule? ...(Interruptions)... 8 Observation by [RAJYA SABHA] the Chair
[Mr. Chairman] Everything will come for discussion. ...(Interruptions)... Everything will come for discussion. ...(Interruptions)... What can I do? ...(Interruptions)... You all are friends. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN: Sir, my point of order is on Rule 69. Rule 69 allows the Chairman to use his discretionary power to introduce a Bill on the same day without circulating it, without Members reading it. It allows you the power, Sir. It allows you the power. I have no quibble on that. Sir, my simple point is, the rest of the Rule 69 (1) (2) (3) (4) and the first four lines, on that I appeal to you to please, when these Bills are circulated, allow us the time to read these Bills, to understand these Bills. For example, this is a good Bill. But when we are not given the time, Sir, I appeal to you, you have the power to circumvent all, we feel deprived, Sir, ...
MR. CHAIRMAN: I got your point. There is a reason. I do admit that Members need time to read it. So, even after the Minister introduced the Bill, the Members will be given an opportunity to give amendments upto 12.30 today. Any Member, on any Bill, can give amendments. Then, there will also be time available to you to even study before you speak. That arrangement has been made, and I am saying it officially. It will go on record. Once the Bill is introduced, Members can move amendments and also start applying their mind because we have only two days left. So, we have to understand the importance. ...(Interruptions)... Ms. Dola Sen, the leader of your party has spoken. He is capable. I heard him and also I have taken it positively. ...(Interruptions)... Anandji, it is not only that Bill. There are two Bills and one Resolution also. Once they come before you, then you start reacting on that. ...(Interruptions)...
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Sir, I am not against the Bill. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Agreed. ...(Interruptions)...
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Chairman Sir, we are not against this Bill. ...(Interruptions)... But we want to know the notice that we have given under the rule 267.
MR. CHAIRMAN: That will also be replied to.
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: That should be disposed within one or one and a half hour. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Home Minister may make a reply to that and. ...(Interruptions)... then we can take up the bill. ...(Interruptions)...
†The speech delivered by Honourable Member in Urdu is available in the Floor Version. Observation by [5 August, 2019] the Chair 9
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad Saheb, please listen to me for five minutes only. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad ji, there will no discussion, once the ruling is given. ...(Interruptions)... Please, you are the Leader of the Opposition. You are well aware of the rules. You raised a relevant point. It is important. The country is also taking note of the same, what is happening and all that. It is the duty of the Government to explain it to the House. The Home Minister told me that he is going to explain it; and he says, now itself he is going to explain it. Let us first hear him and let the Bills also be moved, and then we will discuss it. ...(Interruptions)... Please be seated ...(Interruptions)... Shri Amit Shah, hon. Home Minister. ...(Interruptions)... Nothing else will go on record other than what the Home Minister says. Other than the Home Minister, nothing else will go on record. ...(Interruptions)... Please be seated, Shri Tiruchi Siva ji. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Rangarajan, please sit down. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Mr. Chairman Sir, under the revised list of business, you have permitted me to present two resolutions and one Bill, over and above the printed list of business. I would introduce all these four things together. We shall discuss these all in detail and hereafter I shall make a reply to all the issues raised. If they want to have division on these four items they also division can have that also one by one on all these four bills. But I believe that there will be a consensus on all these four items we can have a voting on all these four things after the discussion.
Mr. Chairman sir, Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad ji has said that there should be a discussion on the present State of Affairs in Kashmir. I would like to say that the two resolutions and two Bills that I have brought to this house, are all about Kashmir itself. You can put forth your views while discussing these items also. You can also put your views on the present State of Affairs in Kashmir also. Now, I introduce the resolutions and the Bill one after one. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: I have permitted him. ...(Interruptions)... I have permitted the Home Minister. ...(Interruptions)... Please. ...(Interruptions)... In my own wisdom, I have permitted. It is very important. It is a serious issue. ...(Interruptions)... It will come. It will come to you. ...(Interruptions)... One after another, it will come to you. ...(Interruptions).. Please. ...(Interruptions)....
———— 10 Statutory [RAJYA SABHA] Resolutions
STATUTORY RESOLUTIONS*
Cessation of all Clauses of Article 370 except Clause (1)
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI AMIT SHAH): Sir, I beg to move the Resolution:
“That this House recommends the following public notification to be issued by the President of India under Article 370 (3):
The Proclamation under Article 370 (3) of the Constitution
‘In exercise of the powers conferred by Clause (3) of article 370 read with clause (1) of Article 370 of the Constitution of India, the President, on the recommendation of the Parliament, is pleased to declare that, as from (*date), all clauses of the said Article 370 shall cease to be operative except clause (1) thereof which shall read as under, namely:—
“All provisions of this Constitution, as amended from time to time, without any modifications or exceptions, shall apply to the State of Jammu and Kashmir notwithstanding anything contrary contained in article 152 or article 308 or any other article of this Constitution or any other provision of the Constitution of Jammu and Kashmir or any law, document, judgement, ordinance, order, byelaw, rule, regulation, notification, custom or usage having the force of law in the territory of India, or any other instrument, treaty or agreement as envisaged under article 363 or otherwise.”. ...(Interruptions)....
(Date*) will mean the date on which the signature of the President of India will be put on the proclamation and it will be notified in the Gazette of India.
MR. CHAIRMAN: He is not yielding. ...(Interruptions)... He is not yielding. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN: Sir, where is it listed? ...(Interruptions)... Where is it in the List of Business? ...(Interruptions)...
The Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, 2019
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI AMIT SHAH): I also beg to move the Resolution:
*Discussed together with Government Bills. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 11
(ii) “That the President of India has referred the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, 2019 to this House under the proviso to article 3 of the Constitution of India for its views as this House is vested with the powers of the State Legislature of Jammu and Kashmir, as per proclamation of the President of India dated 19th December, 2018. This House resolves to express the view to accept the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, 2019.” ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: I will come to you. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN: Sir, point of order. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please go back. ...(Interruptions)... Let me tell you. ...(Interruptions)... Shri Amit Shah to move for leave to introduce the Jammu and Kashmir Reservation (Second Amendment) Bill, 2019. ...(Interruptions)...
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GOVERNMENT BILLS*
The Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, 2019
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI AMIT SHAH): Sir, I also beg to move:
“That the leave be granted to introduce the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, 2019.”
The question was put and the motion was adopted.
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Sir, I introduce the Bill.
The Jammu and Kashmir Reservation (Second Amendment) Bill, 2019
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI AMIT SHAH): Sir, I also beg to move:
“That the leave be granted to introduce the the Bill to further amend The Jammu and Kashmir Reservation Act, 2004.”
The question was put and the motion was adopted.
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Sir, I introduce the Bill.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The Bill has been introduced. ...(Interruptions)... We are only discussing the Reservation Bill. We are discussing only the Reservation Bill. Please go back to your seats. ...(Interruptions)... We are discussing the Reservation Bill.
*Discussed together with Government Bills. 12 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Mr. Chairman] ...(Interruptions)... We are discussing only the Reservation Bill. ...(Interruptions)... Try to understand. Please. ...(Interruptions)... We are only discussing the Reservation Bill. The Reservation Bill has already been circulated. Please go back to your seats. This is not the way. ...(Interruptions)... I am coming to that. ..(Interruptions)... We would be discussing only the Reservation Bill now. Other Bills would be taken up after they are circulated. ...(Interruptions)... We would take up other Bills. ...(Interruptions)... We would take up other Bills after they are circulated. The Jammu and Kashmir Reservation Bill has been circulated. That is being discussed now. Other Bills will be circulated and then only we would have discussion. ...(Interruptions)... Nothing should be shown... This cannot go on. This is not the system. ...(Interruptions)... The system is not there. ...(Interruptions)... Are you opposing reservation? ...(Interruptions)... We are discussing only the Reservation Bill. ...(Interruptions)... We are discussing only the Reservation Bill. ...(Interruptions)... The Bill that is moved is about reservation for people in Jammu and Kashmir and I heard the Leader of the Opposition saying that they are supporting the reservation. ...(Interruptions)... Once the other Bill is circulated, we will have the discussion. ...(Interruptions)... The Jammu and Kashmir Reservation (Second Amendment) Bill has been circulated. ...(Interruptions)... It is there in the agenda. ...(Interruptions)... We are starting a discussion on that first. ...(Interruptions)... After that, we can discuss other things. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Siva, you go to your seat and then raise your point of order. ...(Interruptions)... I will allow you once you go there. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN: Sir, I have a point of order. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: What is your point of order? ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN: Allow me to raise my point of order. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: There is no order; how can I? ...(Interruptions)... All this will not go on record. ...(Interruptions)... Why are you wasting your energy? ...(Interruptions)... Whatever you want to say, you say it when discussion takes place. ...(Interruptions)... You first hear what I am saying. ...(Interruptions)... What I have permitted is only mention of the Bill. ...(Interruptions)... He is moving the Jammu and Kashmir Reservation Bill which has already been circulated. ...(Interruptions)... Copies have been given. ...(Interruptions)... Let us dispose of that Bill. ...(Interruptions)... After others are distributed, we can take up other Bills also. ...(Interruptions)... Try to understand what I am saying. ...(Interruptions)... What you are raising is the same thing I am saying. ...(Interruptions)... What is on the Agenda is this. ...(Interruptions)... It is very much on the Agenda. ...(Interruptions)... It has been circulated. ...(Interruptions)... We will take up only the Reservation Bill. ...(Interruptions)... The Resolution and Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 13 the Reservation Bill is circulated. ...(Interruptions)... Is it okay? ...(Interruptions)... Not circulated! ...(Interruptions)...
THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS; THE MINISTER OF COAL; AND THE MINISTER OF MINES (SHRI PRALHAD JOSHI): Sir, more than 33 times, Rule 69 and 20B direction have been violated. ...(Interruptions)... It is not the first time that we are doing it. What for the Constitution 38th Amendment, 1975 was done? ...(Interruptions)... It was for the ...(Interruptions)... of the Congress Party and Shrimati Indira Gandhi. ...(Interruptions)... It was done to continue in power. ...(Interruptions)... That was a constitutional Amendment. ...(Interruptions)... On that constitutional Amendment, Shrimati Indira Gandhi said then that the founders of the Constitution had allowed changes from time to time. ...(Interruptions)... It is repaired and restructured by Modiji led Government under the leadership of Shri Amit Shah, we should understand that. ...(Interruptions)... The Constitution (Thirty- ninth Amendment) Bill presented on 07.08.1975 was passed on 07.08.1975; so also, the President’s Emoluments and Pension (Amendment) Bill. ...(Interruptions)... A total of more than 30 Bills had been introduced and passed on the same day. ...(Interruptions)... Now, for what are we doing this? ...(Interruptions)... We are doing this in the interest of the nation. ...(Interruptions)... Already whatever the Bills that have been introduced, they have been circulated. ...(Interruptions)... And at the initial stage, we are discussing the Jammu and Kashmir Reservation (Second Amendment) Bill, 2019. ...(Interruptions)... Let them spell out whether they are against the reservation; let them spell it out. ...(Interruptions)... I urge, I appeal to them, to go to their seats and discuss the issue. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, people’s mandate is there. ...(Interruptions)... This 370 is the historic blunder of the Congress Party and the then Prime Minister, Shri Nehru. ...(Interruptions)... Now, Amit Shahji is rectifying it. ...(Interruptions)... Please allow us for a discussion. ...(Interruptions)... This is what I want to appeal. ...(Interruptions)...
THE MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE; THE MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS; AND THE MINISTER OF ELECTRONICS AND INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY (SHRI RAVI SHANKAR PRASAD): Sir, you have exempted the rule. Under the Rules 266 of the Rules of Procedures, you have got full powers to exempt. We have all the decisions and the actions of the Chairman. ...(Interruptions)... Powers are not there! ...(Interruptions)....We have. ...(Interruptions).... in which in Congress Party’s time Bills were passed the same day, they were introduced. ...(Interruptions)... After that in Rajya Sabha Tamil Nadu State Bill was passed. ...(Interruptions)....Amendment Bills, were introduced and they were also passed the same day. ....(Interruptions).... There is enough empirical evidence, enough precedents. Sir, in Jammu and Kashmir, ....(Interruptions).... Hon’ble Minister of Home 14 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Ravi Shankar Prasad] Affairs will tell us, how many people have been killed. ....(Interruptions).... The Government of India, is now coming up with an entire system for the development of Jammu and Kashmir and also for its planning and the employment generation there. ...(Interruptions).... Today, the Congress Party will have to respond and tell as to why so many people have been killed there. ...(Interruptions).... they have been killed due to the rule that was there. ...(Interruptions).... Today, the Government of Narendra Modi ji has come with a new holistic vision. ....(Interruptions).... Now, it will be discussed and he will have the opportunity to express himself. So, let the discussion start ...(Interruptions)... It is happening on precedents, on empirical evidence, on past precedents. ...(Interruptions)... I request, let them ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Derek O’Brien has raised a point of order. ...(Interruptions)... Please Vaikoji, one minute. ...(Interruptions)... I will be giving opportunity to you also, please go to your seat. ...(Interruptions)... Number one, please be prepared to listen, otherwise it has been going on like this. ...(Interruptions)... the point or order that Mr. Derek. ...(Interruptions)... Your leader has raised a point of order. ...(Interruptions)... Please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... Otherwise, I have to name people, it won’t look nice. ...(Interruptions)... My point is that Shri Derek O’Brien has raised a point of order saying, “Sir, only one Bill is distributed. The copies of other Bills have not even come.” ...(Interruptions)... I see the merit in what he has said. ...(Interruptions)... That is why, ...(Interruptions)... Please, please, please, you don’t want to hear anything! ...(Interruptions)... You want to create disturbances like this. ...(Interruptions)... Then, I will have to ask the Home Minister to introduce other Bills also. ...(Interruptions)... Please move other Bills also. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Sir, I beg to move:
“that the Bill to further amend the Jammu and Kashmir Reservation Bill, 2004 be taken into consideration.”
Sir, I also beg to move:
“that the Bill to provide for the reorganisation of the existing State of Jammu and Kashmir and for matters connected therewith or incidental thereto, be taken into consideration.”
Sir, the Bill to further amend the Jammu and Kashmir Reservation Act, 2004 and the Jammu and Kashmir Reservation Second Amendment Bill, 2019 have been introduced. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, I have come with the 10 per cent reservation for the weaker sections in the educational institutions and also in the Government jobs under the provisions of the Bill to further amend the Constitution of India through 103rd Constitutional amendment Bill, 2019 by the Union Government. ...(Interruptions)... Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 15
This reservation will be provided for the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes and the other backward Communities and also the economically weaker sections of the society. ...(Interruptions)... This reservation will accrue the benefits to the economically weaker sections also and will help their talented children. ...(Interruptions)... we shall give reservations to them in education as well as in the jobs.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Siva, go to your seat. I will allow you. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Sir, under this order. ...(Interruptions)... it will be implemented in Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, the Government of Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... this Ministry had considered upon their proposal... this has been done on the recommendations of the Cabinet for the reforms in Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... The president has passed the amendment order, 2019 for the reforms in Jammu and Kashmir on 1st March 2019. ...(Interruptions)... Now, to make those Constitutional Amendment orders the effective. ...(Interruptions)... To make that order effective, the Jammu and Kashmir Reservation Act, 2004 needs to be further amended. ...(Interruptions)... Since all the legislative powers during the President rule is vested in both the Houses, ...(Interruptions)... Therefore, this amendment to the Jammu and Kashmir Reservation Act, 2004 has to be passed by both, the Houses ...(Interruptions)... Going by that, also the Bill to provide 10 per cent reservation to the persons of Economically Weaker Sections of the same State, ...(Interruptions)... the 103rd Constitution Amendment Bill also need to be passed.. ...(Interruptions)... So let this house adopt the Jammu and Kashmir Amendment Bill, 2019. ...(Interruptions)... I urge upon all the members of the House to pass this amendment. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: First, you hear what I am saying. ...(Interruptions)... I have permitted only, ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Vaiko, please ...(Interruptions)... This is about the reservation, about this the leader of opposition has also said that he has no objection ...(Interruptions)... Its copies have also been circulated in the House. ...(Interruptions)... copies have been circulated. Mr. Minister has introduced it. ...(Interruptions)... I have given him permission to speak. ...(Interruptions)... the rest of the three are also being circulated ...(Interruptions)... After the circulation, he will move proposal. ...(Interruptions)... then we shall discuss this. ...(Interruptions)... are you not agree to discuss even that on which we have the consensus. ...(Interruptions)... This kind of the reservation is there in the entire nation and the same is being sought to be extended to Jammu and Kashmir now. ...(Interruptions)... Mr Tiruchi Shiva, please go back to your seat. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Siva, if you were on your seat, I would have allowed you. Even now, I am ready to allow you. ...(Interruptions)... If anybody wants to speak on reservation. ...(Interruptions)... Ram Gopalji, please speak on reservation. ...(Interruptions)... Just a minute, Mr. Siva wants to raise some 16 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Mr. Chairman] point of order. Let him go to his seat. ...(Interruptions)... One minute, Ram Gopalji, I will just allow you. ...(Interruptions)... Let Mr. Siva go to his seat. ...(Interruptions)... Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav may be given the mike. ...(Interruptions)...
PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV (Uttar Pradesh): Mr. Chairman Sir, I support the Bill seeking to extend reservation to EWS, but ...(Interruptions)... the question of justification is that when you do not consider Jammu and Kashmir, a State anymore ...(Interruptions)... then Jammu and Kashmir has become a territory and Ladakh has become another territory, so this Bill should have been brought later.
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Prof. Ram Gopal ji, the matter is, this Bill was circulated earlier. ...(Interruptions)... Hon. Chairman has permitted the discussion on this Bill, so I have moved it. ...(Interruptions)... It will be null and void ...(Interruptions)... once this Bill is passed. ...(Interruptions)...just after the abrogation of the article 370 of the Indian Constitution, this Bill will become automatically the law. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN: Sir, ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: I have permitted you. Your Members are coming and sitting here. ...(Interruptions)... You can’t have the cake and eat it too. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Siva, please speak. ...(Interruptions)... Go to your seat, you cannot speak from here.
SHRI TIRUCHI SIVA (Tamil Nadu): Sir, when you brought up notice under Rule 267, you said that we could discuss everything under the Bill, but nothing is related to the Bill and the Resolution that was given. Later, the Home Minister introduced two Bills, which were not circulated to us. ...(Interruptions)... After he introduced the Bills, we got the Supplementary List of Business. ...(Interruptions)... It is totally unprecedented in the Parliament. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, you are our protector, the protector of...... (Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: You have not understood, what I have said. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI TIRUCHI SIVA: They circulated the Bill only later. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: I agree. ...(Interruptions)... This is not the way. ...(Interruptions)... All of you are standing and showing the Bill. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI TIRUCHI SIVA: Sir, we were raising point of order, ...(Interruptions)... even when the Minister was introducing the Bill. ...(Interruptions)... But, we were not allowed. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Siva, you have raised a point of order. ...(Interruptions)... Do you want to hear my response or not? ...(Interruptions)... Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 17
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Sir, I would like to say that right now Mr. Tiruchi Shiva said that it is for the first time that such a thing is happening in the house;it has never happened so in this house. I would like to clarify that such things have happened 38 times in this house in earlier times. This is not true that such a thing has happened in this house for the first time. ....(Interruptions).... Chairman sir, I would like to put on record that we want that Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions).....
MR. CHAIRMAN: You go to your seat. ...(Interruptions)... I have not allowed you. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Let me complete my speech. ...(Interruptions)... Shri Derek O’Brien ji, please allow me to complete. Then you can have your say. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Go to your seat, ...(Interruptions)... I will not allow you. ...(Interruptions)... As long as you are here, ...(Interruptions)... I will not allow you. ...(Interruptions)... Please go to your seat. ...(Interruptions)... You are a doctor. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Chairman Sir, ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Let us try to understand. ...(Interruptions)... The point of order raised by Shri Derek O’Brien and also the point of order raised by Shri Tiruchi Siva. ...(Interruptions)... You just hear me. ...(Interruptions)... You do not want to hear me. ...(Interruptions)... Do you want to dictate? ...(Interruptions)... Do you want to dictate like this? ...(Interruptions)... You ask your Members to go to their seats first. ...(Interruptions)... The point of order is that the Bill is not circulated, so the discussion should not be there. ...(Interruptions)... I agree. ...(Interruptions)... But, the Jammu and Kashmir Reservation (Second Amendment) Bill, 2019 is already circulated. ...(Interruptions)... So, let us first dispose of the Reservation Bill. ...(Interruptions)...
Secondly, now that all the Bills are circulated, ...(Interruptions)... I will be asking the Home Minister to again introduce the Bills. ...(Interruptions)... You introduce the other three Bills again. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Chairman Sir, ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: You cannot raise a point of order to disrupt the House. ...(Interruptions)... First, ask your Members to go to their seats. ...(Interruptions)... Show the rule book to those people and ask them to go to their seats. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move the Resolution:
“That this House under the powers given by the article 370(3) recommends the following notification issued by the President of India. ...(Interruptions)... 18 Withdrawal of [RAJYA SABHA] Members
[Shri Amit Shah] Proclamation under article 370(3) of the Constitution. ...(Interruptions)... Under the article 370(3) of the Constitution read with the provisions of the article 370, clause 3, the President of India on the recommendation of this House. ...(Interruptions)... proclaims that ...(Interruptions)... the date on which the President of India will put his signature on this ...(Interruptions)... and this will be notified in the Gazette of India ...(Interruptions)... all the clauses of article 370 will no more be effective and will be null and void. ...(Interruptions)... And all the amendments of the Constitution that have been made time to time. ...(Interruptions)... will apply without any modifications without an exceptions in the State of Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... and the Whole Constitution of India will apply in the State of Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... except the fact any exceptions included in article 354 or article 308 or any their article of the Constitution or any other provision in the Constitution of Jammu and Kashmir or any legal document, judgement, ordinance, order, rule, byelaw, regulation, notification, custom or usage having the force of law inthe territory of India, or any other instrument, treaty or agreement as envisaged under article 363 or otherwise. ...(Interruptions)...
Mr. Chairman Sir, I move this Resolution:
“that the President of India has referred. ...(Interruptions)... the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, 2019 to this House under the provision to article 3 of the Constitution of India for its views as this House is vested. ...(Interruptions)... with the powers of the State Legislature of Jammu and Kashmir, as per proclamation of the President of India dated 19th December, 2018. This House resolves to express the view to accept the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, 2019. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Chairman Sir, I request that “The Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, 2019 be taken into consideration. ...(Interruptions)...
————
WITHDRAWAL OF MEMBERS
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Derek, you ask your people to go back to their seats, otherwise, I will not give permission. ...(Interruptions)... Yes, Mr. Vaiko, what do you want to say? Please. ...(Interruptions)... Switch on your mike please. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI VAIKO (Tamil Nadu): Sir, this House.. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, this is killing Withdrawal [5 August, 2019] Members 19 of democracy. ...(Interruptions)... It should not have been permitted. ...(Interruptions)... It is murder of democracy and killing of democracy. ...(Interruptions)... Only during emergency, it has been. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: What is your point of order? ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI VAIKO: Mr. Chairman, Sir, we are the victims of emergency. ...(Interruptions)... Emergency days have come back. ...(Interruptions)... Emergency days have come back. ...(Interruptions)... This is nothing but murder of democracy.
MR. CHAIRMAN: There is no emergency, only urgency. ...(Interruptions)... Please try to understand this. If you want to hear the Chairman, once again, I want to clarify. There seems to be some confusion. ...(Interruptions)... Please hear me. ...(Interruptions)... Please hear what I want to say, then, you say whatever you want to say. ...(Interruptions)... You don’t want to hear, then, I do not want to hear you also. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Derek, you have to ask your people to go back to their seats. You cannot create disorder and then raise a point of order. How can these two things go together? ...(Interruptions)... For the sake of record, I want to say one thing. ...(Interruptions)... What I permitted the Home Minister was to move the Reservation Bill, which had been circulated on Friday, which I have permitted. ...(Interruptions)... So, he circulated it today again, and, spoke about it. Agreed. ...(Interruptions)...
Secondly, he started reading about other Bills, which were not circulated. ...(Interruptions)... That is the point of order raised by Mr. Siva, and, partly, by Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad. What I want to say is, after my office told me. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Vaiko, you have to go to your seat. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Vaiko, please go to your seat. You are an elderly man. ...(Interruptions)... I gave you an opportunity to speak. ...(Interruptions)...
Moreover, after coming to know that these Bills were not circulated, I told the Home Minister, after circulation, to move them again. They have been circulated, and, Ram Gopal Yadav ji also brought it to my notice. On Reservation issue, he said, no problem. ...(Interruptions)... On other Bills, there was problem. ...(Interruptions)...
Constitution ...(Interruptions)... What is the name of these two members, ...(Interruptions)... tell me their names. ...(Interruptions)... Shri Nazir Ahmed Laway and Mir Mohammad Fayaz have been named by me. They have to go out. Marshalls, take them out. If they do not go out, take them out. They are breaking the Constitution? I cannot tolerate it in the Indian Parliament. This cannot be so. ...(Interruptions)... Send both of these outside, the house. ...(Interruptions)... Please send them out of the House. ...(Interruptions)... Other Marshalls, other Marshalls, come. ...(Interruptions)... 20 Withdrawal of [RAJYA SABHA] Members
[Mr. Chairman] No, Members, go to your place. ...(Interruptions)... Members, go to your place. How can they break the Constitution? How can they throw the Constitution? ...(Interruptions)... Ghulam Nabi ji, you are a senior Member. They are tearing the Constitution. Indian Constitution is supreme. ...(Interruptions)... Nobody can do it. Nobody can do it. ...(Interruptions)... The House shunts them out. ...(Interruptions)... No discussion. ...(Interruptions)... No argument.. ...(Interruptions)... Please, Ruling Party Members, go to your seats. ...(Interruptions)... Ruling Party Members, go to your seats. ...(Interruptions)... Please go to your seats. ...(Interruptions)... Ruling Party Members, go to your seats. ...(Interruptions)... TMC Members, go to your seats. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Sanjay, please go to your seat. ...(Interruptions)... I would like to put it on record. ...(Interruptions)... No Member has the right to tear the Constitution. ...(Interruptions)... They have thrown the Constitution. ...(Interruptions)... They have been sent out. ...(Interruptions)... All of you go to your seats. ...(Interruptions)... All of you go to your seats. ...(Interruptions)... Please go to your seats. ...(Interruptions)... We have sent them. ...(Interruptions)... I am giving the Leader of the Opposition an opportunity ...(Interruptions)... Please go to your seats. ...(Interruptions)... I have got every right to name somebody who is doing unparliamentary things. ...(Interruptions)... Communist Members, please go to your seats. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Elangovan, please go to your seat. ...(Interruptions)... Ruling Party Members, please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... You are not supposed to touch or argue with anybody. ...(Interruptions)... Please take note. ...(Interruptions)... That is not your duty. ...(Interruptions)... That is not your duty. ...(Interruptions)... Please. I will be. ...(Interruptions)... The LOP wants to say something. ...(Interruptions)... I want to hear him. ...(Interruptions)... Please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... Please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... Please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... But before the LOP says something, I want to repeat what I have said as the Chairman of the House. I can understand any amount of anxiety, anger and also protest. ...(Interruptions)... And anguish also. ...(Interruptions)... But try to understand. ...(Interruptions)... I will give you. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI BHUPENDER YADAV: Sir, ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Bhupender Yadav ji, I am saying something. ...(Interruptions)... Please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... Please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... One thing I would like to tell everybody ...(Interruptions)... Anybody tearing the Constitution in the House or saying something against India will not be allowed at all. ...(Interruptions)... Not only will I name them ...(Interruptions)... I will take action against them also. ...(Interruptions)... This has to be understood by all. ...(Interruptions)... The Leader of Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 21 the Opposition. ...(Interruptions)... The Leader of the Opposition. ...(Interruptions)... I have permitted him. ...(Interruptions)... I have permitted the Leader of the Opposition ...(Interruptions)... Please have patience.
————
STATUTORY RESOLUTIONS – (Contd.)
CESSATION OF ALL CLAUSES OF ARTICLE 370 EXCEPT CLAUSE (1) THE JAMMU AND KASHMIR RE-ORGANISATION BILL, 2019 AND GOVERNMENT BILLS– (Contd.) THE JAMMU AND KASHMIR RE-ORGANISATION BILL, 2019 THE JAMMU AND KASHMIR RESERVATION (SECOND AMENDMENT) BILL, 2019
†THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD): Hon’ble Chairman Sir, First of all, I would like to say that it was through the article 370 that the State of Jammu and Kashmir was integrated with the rest of the nation. To keep, Jammu and Kashmir with India, lakhs of people have sacrificed their lives in the last 70 years. Thousands of security forces, the army personnel and paramilitary persons and the police have laid down their lives to keep this State integrated with India. Thousands of politicians also have laid down their lives in this pursuit. National parties have lost their leaders as well as their workers. Thousands of civilians have lost their lives since 1947. This was a great sacrifice. Such an attempt has not been made for the first time. Whenever such attempts were made the people of Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh have always stood side by side with the rest of the Indian nation. They have always been with the India, in all troubles and travails. Though this is true that the handful persons are there who were against the accession and still remain so. ...(Interruptions)... But we condemn this acts through which ...(Interruptions)... we condemn their acts who burn or tear down the Constitution of India. ...(Interruptions)... They have murdered the republic as well as democracy. ...(Interruptions).... The Constitution, the article 370, through which we had given Jammu and Kashmir to ourselves. ...(Interruptions)....
MR. CHAIRMAN: One second. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: I am coming to that. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: One second. ...(Interruptions)...
†The speech delivered by the hon. Member in Urdu is available in the Floor Version. 22 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: I am coming to that. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: One second. ...(Interruptions)... You know my temperament. ...(Interruptions)... The point is, if you are starting the discussion, I can give you longer time ...(Interruptions)... If you are responding on that ...(Interruptions)... If you want to have a discussion, I will allow you ...(Interruptions)... I am trying to understand. ...(Interruptions)...
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Hon. Chairman, Sir, something historical has happened. It is not ordinary day-to-day functioning of Bills passing ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI Y. S. CHOWDARY: *
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: *
MR. CHAIRMAN: This will not go on record. ...(Interruptions)... This allegation will not go on record. ...(Interruptions)... Both the allegations will not go on record. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Ramesh, you please go to your seat. ...(Interruptions)... This will not go on record. ...(Interruptions)... Ghulam Nabiji, please. ...(Interruptions)... You cannot speak to any Member like that. ...(Interruptions)... You are the Leader of the Opposition. ...(Interruptions)... Please confine to the issue. ...(Interruptions)... Nothing about the charges shall go on record. ...(Interruptions)... No, no please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... No, no. ...(Interruptions)... You cannot insult a Member like this. ...(Interruptions)... You cannot make personal allegations. ...(Interruptions)... If you want to say something, please speak; otherwise, it will not go on record. ...(Interruptions)... Even what LoP is saying will not go on record. ...(Interruptions)...
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Sir, I strongly condemn the act of two or three Members of Parliament — none from my Party and none from those of us — who are sitting here. We stand by the Constitution of India.
Sir, we shall put our lives on stake for the Constitution of India... (Interruptions)... we condemn their acts who burn or tear down the Constitution of India. ...(Interruptions)... But today BJP has murdered the constitution as well as democracy. ...(Interruptions)... They have murdered both democracy as well as The Constitution, the article 370, through which we had given Jammu and Kashmir to India. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: They have got a right. You have got a right to oppose. ...(Interruptions)...
*Not Recorded. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 23
SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Today, the Modi Government has devastated and turned into smithereens the same Constitution and democracy. ...(Interruptions)... so we stage a sit - in again in the protest. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. ...(Interruptions)... Now, the Home Minister. ...(Interruptions)...
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI AMIT SHAH): Mr. Chairman Sir, just now Ghulam Nabi Azad Saheb has said that article 370 is historic one. ...(Interruptions)... I do not want to enter into a debate in this regards, but the Bill with which I have come to this house is also a historic one and it will make a new history, ...(Interruptions)... this will seek to help the populace which is living in poverty and scarcity due to article 370 ...(Interruptions)... they do not get the benefits of the reservations. ...(Interruptions).... injustice is being meted out to the womenfolk there. ...(Interruptions)... injustice is being meted out to Dalits and tribals there. ...(Interruptions)... the corruption is increasing day by day. ...(Interruptions)... under the shadow of the article 370 three families ...(Interruptions).... these three families have been looting Jammu and Kashmir for years till now. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing shall go on record. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Mr. Chairman Sir, the leader of opposition has said that it is the article 370 that has integrated Jammu and Kashmir with India. This is not true. ...(Interruptions)... The instrument of the accession of Jammu and Kashmir was signed by the king of Jammu and Kashmir on 27th October, 1947...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: No, no, ...(Interruptions)... Those who are shouting, their words will not go on record. ...(Interruptions)... Your leader has protested, what to do? ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: I would like to let you know once again that it was on 27 October, 1947 that the instrument of the accession of Jammu and Kashmir was signed upon. ...(Interruptions)... The article 370 came after full 2 years in 1949. ...(Interruptions)... So, this is not true to say that it was this article that integrated Jammu and Kashmir with the rest of Indian nation. ...(Interruptions)... The reality is just otherwise. The article 370 never allowed Jammu and Kashmir to be fully integrated with India. ...(Interruptions)...
Sir, I would like to assure the House that if Ghulam Nabi Azad says that this way is unconstitutional then he should argue. ...(Interruptions)... They should not make a noise. ...(Interruptions)... I am ready to discuss the issue under any provisions of the Constitution, if they wish, ...(Interruptions)... Ever since our Constitution was 24 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Amit Shah] made, the article 370 was held as the temporary one. ...(Interruptions)... Why it was considered temporary? It was held to be temporary or ad-hoc, because it was to be abrogated at some or other time. ...(Interruptions)... it should have been abrogated much earlier, but no one had the political will power. ...(Interruptions)... there was lack of steadfast political will power, the vote bank politics was the order of the day. And it was on the basis of article 370, that the vote bank was to be made. ...(Interruptions)... Nor we have to make the vote bank and nor do we lack the strong political will power. ...(Interruptions)... Narendra Modiji is a man with great political will power. ...(Interruptions)... That’s why the Cabinet has approved this motion today. ...(Interruptions)...... (Interruptions)...
Mr. Chairman, Sir, through you, I would like to urge upon all the members of the House to discuss this. ...(Interruptions)... the nation wants to know as to why this article 370 continued for such a long time ...(Interruptions)... Sir, the nation wants to know as to why corruption was reigning in Jammu and Kashmir for such a long time. ...(Interruptions)... the nation wants to know why the dalits in Kashmir were not given the benefits of reservation till date ....(Interruptions).... the nation wants to know why the tribal of Jammu and Kashmir were not given any political reservation ...(Interruptions)... the nation wants to know as to why under 35A the mothers and sisters of Jammu and Kashmir did not get the rights to call their children Kashmiris ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Chairman Sir, the nation wants to know as to why despite getting largest grant of money from the Centre, the people of Kashmir continue to be poor, the nation wants to know ...(Interruptions)...
Mr. Chairman Sir, through you, I would like to urge upon all the members of the House to participate in the debate and put forth their views, they can express themselves without fear and with full force. ...(Interruptions)... I would like to respond to all the arguments ....(Interruptions)... I have come here with a steadfast mindset that there should not be even one second’s delay in abrogating the article 370.
The questions were proposed.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav. ...(Interruptions)... Do you want to say something? ...(Interruptions)... Do you want to participate in the debate? ...(Interruptions)... Now, the debate is open on all four issues but voting will be separate. ...(Interruptions)... Voting will be separate. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI SATISH CHANDRA MISRA (Uttar Pradesh): Sir, I want to participate. ...(Interruptions)... Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 25
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, Prof. Ram Gopalji. ...(Interruptions)... Shri Satish Chandra Misra, do you want to speak? ...(Interruptions)... Please. ...(Interruptions)... Please, others go to your seats. ...(Interruptions)...
Manoj ji, please go back to your seat. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI SATISH CHANDRA MISRA: Sir, Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: One second. ...(Interruptions)... Anyone can effectively counter the Government. ...(Interruptions)... You can oppose; you can protest and you can vote against the Bill also. ...(Interruptions)... What Shri Satish Chandra Misra speaks will go on record. ...(Interruptions)... What Shri Satish Chandra Misra speaks will go on record. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI SATISH CHANDRA MISRA: Mr. Chairman Sir, ...(Interruptions)... Our party wholly supports Jammu and Kashmir Reservation ...(Interruptions)... We want this Bill to be passed. ...(Interruptions)... Our party does not any opposition to what the Government is bringing on Article 370 and the other Bills. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, Mr. Satish Chandra Misra has spoken. ...(Interruptions)... Friends, I have given time opportunity till 12.30 p.m. if any member has to move any amendment. ...(Interruptions)... I have already announced that upto 12.30 p.m., any Member who desires to move any Amendment to any clause or sub-clause, they are free to give it. ...(Interruptions)... Before that, the discussion will be going on. ...(Interruptions)... Voting will take place, only after this discussion is over, one-by- one and not together. ...(Interruptions)... Discussion will be together but voting will be separate. ...(Interruptions)... Please understand this. ...(Interruptions)... So, I now request Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad. ...(Interruptions)... Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad, do you want to participate in the debate? ...(Interruptions)... Now, Shri Bhupender Yadav. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI BHUPENDER YADAV (Rajasthan): Mr. Chairman Sir, today it’s a historic day for the country. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: I have already said that 4 hours have been allotted for 4 Bills. ...(Interruptions)... So, we will have time upto that and there won’t be any lunch break. ...(Interruptions)... Whoever want to have lunch, they can go and come back. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI BHUPENDER YADAV (Rajasthan): Mr. Chairman Sir, it is a historic day for the country today. ...(Interruptions)... 26 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
12.00 Noon
mr. CHAIRMAN: I have already said that for this Bills. ...(Interruptions)... 4 hours time has been allocated for 4 Bills. ...(Interruptions)... So, we will have time upto that and there won’t be any lunch break. ...(Interruptions)... Whoever want to have lunch, they can go and come back. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI BHUPENDER YADAV: Sir, the country is witnessing a historic day today. ...(Interruptions)... It is a historic day today because the resolutions and the Bills that have been presented by the Home Minister will strengthen even further the unity and integrity of India. He has brought forward the resolution to transform India into a country where “sabka saath, sabka vikaas and sabka vishwas” will be ensured. ...(Interruptions)...
Sir, we take an oath here as a Member of Parliament. ...(Interruptions)... The first thing that we say in that oath is that “I will bear true faith and allegiance tothe Constitution of India” ...(Interruptions)... Along with having faith in the Constitution of India, the second thing we say in oath is that “upholding the sovereignty and Integrity of India” will be the most important objective for us. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: All this sloganeering will not go into the record. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI BHUPENDER YADAV: The third part of the oath, which we have always been reiterating is that we “will faithfully discharge the duty” that has been assigned to us. Initiating this debate, at the very outset I would like to draw your attention to certain rules of procedures of this House. Sir, this morning the opposition gave a notice under Rule 267. Mr. Chairman permitted them to speak. Rule 266 of the House gives to the Chairman the power to waive any rule, including Rule 267. Most humbly and with sadness, I would like to say that the Opposition has, instead of speaking on the Bill, has destroyed the dignity of this House, although the Chairman, while giving a ruling on their notice under Rule 267, had told them that they could raise all their points during a discussion on Jammu and Kashmir Bill and resolution. I would like to say to the opposition members, that they should discharge their parliamentary duty, as they have taken oath to bear faith in the Constitution and to uphold the unity and integrity of India. I would like to urge them to participate in the debate. All the Opposition members present here are aware that Rule 235 (vii) states that when this House is functioning, all members of the House will have to be seated in their places, but the opposition members are not taking their seats. Sir, there have been many precedents in this House when Bills have been introduced through Supplementary Business. No Opposition member can say today that there Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 27 was no discussion in the Business Advisory Committee on the introduction of this Bill. I would like to say that when Business Advisory Committee held its meeting on 2nd August, 2019, Jammu and Kashmir Reservation Bill had been listed as its Agenda No. l. Members of both the treasury benches and the opposition were present during the discussion on Agenda No. 1 of BAC meeting. In that meeting, 2 hours’ time was alloted for Jammu and Kashmir Reservation Bill.
(MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the Chair.)
If the opposition members are protesting here, is ignoring that discussion in the Business Advisory Committee, I would like to say that their opposition is only political. This opposition this protest has nothing to do with Jammu and Kashmir and its people. I would also like to say that the Congress Party should at least understand that they have never taken the required steps in connection with Jammu and Kashmir, the ones that were needed for the unity of the country. Our Minister of Home Affairs has brought forward a subject in the House today, which you could not take up in 70 years. Instead of protesting, you should stand with him today. Sir, I would like to say that when we enter into this august House, we take oath that we shall bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of India and we will uphold the sovereignty and integrity of India. It means that we should participate in the discussion being held in the House to maintain and uphold the sovereignty and integrity of India. I would like to tell the opposition members that they should participate in the discussion.
Sir, Article 1 of the Constitution of India defines a Union Territory. Article 1 defines Jammu and Kashmir as a Union Territory of India. If there is something permanent there, it is Article 1. If there was a temporary on provisional Article, it was Article 370. The Opposition members must understand why it was kept as provisional. What were the circumstances prevailing in the country at that time? The Hon’ble Minister of Home Affairs told us that when Jammu and Kashmir was merged into India, the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir had said at that time that Jammu and Kashmir would be a part of India. In view of the circumstances prevailing at that time, Article 370 was incorporated as a temporary provision.
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN (West Bengal): Sir, I have a point of order. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI BHUPENDER YADAV: But we have unanimously passed resolutions under Article 1 of the Constitution of India from time to time in order to merge many States into India, and the House has been a witness to this fact. ...(Interruptions)... I would like to remind the Congress members that when on 7th March, 1974, Sikkim 28 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Bhupender Yadav] was merged into the territory of this country, all members of the House belonging to the Treasury and the Opposition benches had passed a revolution within a day. ...(Interruptions)... The members of opposition did not forget that this is the matter of unity and integrity of India. ...(Interruptions)... I want to tell this to them that Sikkim was incorporated on 7 March, 1974, and hereafter this process continued further in our country. Prior to that, on 2nd March, 1962, this very House had unanimously included Goa, Daman and Diu and other Union Territories, defining the unity and integrity of India. ...(Interruptions)... I would also like to say that Puducherry was also unanimously included as an Indian territory by this House. ...(Interruptions)... This House has witnessed moments when very important Constitutional Amendments were adopted. ...(Interruptions)... Just recently, we gave 10% reservation to the poor people in the entire country, this House had unanimously passed that Bill to give 10 per cent reservation. ...(Interruptions)... Even that Bill was not discussed in the Business Advisory Committee, but that was needed for the country, and therefore both the Houses of Parliament had unanimously passed the Bill respecting this parliamentary traditions ...(Interruptions)... The Opposition can not say today that constitutional provisions are not being adhered to ...(Interruptions)... All members have the right to participate in the debate, to raise an issue in the House and to express one’s views. ...(Interruptions)...
Sir, I would like to say through you how Congress, which is opposing the Jammu and Kashmir Bill today ...(Interruptions)... had destroyed the dignity of this House. ...(Interruptions)... We would recall that when a verdict was announced against a former Prime Minister from the Congress Party, Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha were convened within a day only to negate that verdict, and 17 States were summoned to Delhi on Saturday and a Constitutional Amendment was passed this way. ...(Interruptions)... We have not done that here. ...(Interruptions)... The business that is sought to be conducted here, it has been presented through Business Advisory Committee, it is through BAC that it has been taken forward ...(Interruptions)...
Sir, our Hon’ble Minister of Home Affairs has, first of all, presented the Reservation Bill. ...(Interruptions)... What is our idea of reservation? ...(Interruptions)... Why could reservation not be implemented in Jammu and Kashmir till date? ...(Interruptions)... We have presented the second Reservation Amendment Bill, but we must know that when the first Reservation Amendment Bill was brought, all parties had unanimously supported that Bill. ...(Interruptions)... Why was that unanimously supported? It was so because the people living on the Jammu border get displaced from their homes and families due to the frequent attacks by the neighbouring Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 29 country ...(Interruptions)... This factor used to disturb the education of their children. ...(Interruptions)... They were the people committed to the unity and integrity of the country and to the security of the country, but the issue of giving reservation to them had been pending for 70 years, and our Hon’ble Minister for Home Affairs has accomplished that task in the House today under the leaderships of our Prime Minister ...(Interruptions)... When we came up with the first Reservation Amendment Bill, that certainly raised the aspirations of the people of Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... And it is the duty of all of us to fulfil those aspirations of the people of Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... After all, whose responsibility is it to think about the development of Jammu and Kashmir? ...(Interruptions)... Who will think about creating an atmosphere suitable for investment in Jammu and Kashmir? Who will think about ensuring free movement of all the citizens of India in Jammu and Kashmir? ...(Interruptions)... whose job will it be to return a life of dignity and honour to our Kashmiri Pandit brethren who were displaced from Jammu and Kashmir? ...(Interruptions)... Sir, I would like to say through you that the Congress has always opposed whenever poor people’s issues are raised, like when the issue of of Aadhaar law came up for discussion. ...(Interruptions)... Congress again opposed by insisting on a Select Committee when we took up the issue of reservation to the OBCs in - the country. ...(Interruptions)... When we talked of women’s issues of Triple Talaq Bill, then again Congress opposed that ...(Interruptions)... And today, the Congress is once again opposing when we have brought up the resolution to abrogate Article 370 for the development of Jammu and Kashmir, for the unity and integrity of India and for integrating all the States of India with Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... On this occasion, I would like to congratulate all those parties, and the members of Bahujan Samaj Party, who have supported us on this issue of nationalism. ...(Interruptions)... Members of many political parties are present here today, who will speak on the resolution presented by us, and we are going to get support from many political parties on this resolution ...(Interruptions)... Today I want to call upon all members that it is a historic day of glory for India ...(Interruptions)... It is a historic moment of glory. It was for the unity and integrity of India that the merger of Jammu and Kashmir with India had taken place, for which the people of Jammu and Kashmir, the people of Ladakh had an aspiration, for which India had an aspiration, our Prime Minister Shri Narendra Bhai Modi ji accomplishing that task today. ...(Interruptions)... I want to call upon all members to change this into a debate as to how we can bring about development to Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... Many important measures have been taken for the development of Jammu and Kashmir in the last five years under the leadership of Prime Minister Narendra Modiji, whether it is matter of the opening of an IIT, an IIM and an 30 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Bhupender Yadav] AIIMS hospital, but all of us will have to come forward for the development of Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... After all, why don’t the Congress people tell us why reservation was not given to SCs and STs in Jammu and Kashmir in the past 70 years. ...(Interruptions)... Why was reservation not given to the OBCs in Jammu and Kashmir? ...(Interruptions)... Why were the Congress people were silent on this issue, because if there was an obstacle in the way, it was Article 370, and therefore a resolution has been rightly brought forward to abrogate that Article in order to establish Jammu and Kashmir as a welfare State based on social justice. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, through you I would like to say that when Article 370 was moved by N. Gopalswamy Ayengar, then also it was said that, in a way, it was a temporary clause. ...(Interruptions)... We have adopted the Constitution of this country in the form of a flexible Constitution. ...(Interruptions)... We have adopted it as a Constitution which will amended as and when it is required for the people of the country and that has been clearly defined. ...(Interruptions)... Under Article 368, a power has been given to amend the Constitution with the limitation that the core values defined in the Constitution will not be changed. India’s democracy is onesuch fundamental principle. Our party is committed to democracy. India is a Republic, our party is committed to that. Our party is committed to the fact that free and fair elections should be held in India. ...(Interruptions)... We are committed to the fact that fundamental rights of the people of India should be preserved. We belong to a party, the members of which had gone to jails at the time of emergency in the year 1975 in order to save fundamental rights. ...(Interruptions)... We had suffered many tortures in the jails, but I want to say that Bhartiya Janata Party and other opposition parties had fought the second war of independence in India that was waged under the leaderships of Jai Prakash Narayan ji. ...(Interruptions)... I would also like to add here the dream of Jammu and Kashmir’s complete integration with India is a dream of the great leaders of India. This is Dr. Lohia’s dream, this is Baba Sahab’s dream and this is a dream of all those people who have laid down their lives to build India. ...(Interruptions)... I am glad to say here today that we represent a party, whose founder Shyama Prasad Mukherji had laid down his life for Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... We have been saying this since our childhood that
“Jahan hue balidaan Mukherji, vo Kashmir hamara hai”.
But there was an issue of two constitutions with regard to Jammu and Kashmir that issue has been put to an end. Therefore Article 370 was incorporated as a temporary provision at that time. This is a historic step, which has been taken today by the Prime Minister Narendra Bhai Modi, he should be congratulated for that. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 31
Sir, on what philosophy, our Government, which has had its term of five years, has functioned? ...(Interruptions).... Our submission is and we have also observed that people have merely delivered speeches on patriotism, our Government, instead of merely paying lip service to patriotism, has strengthened India’s unity by taking steps in the interest of the country. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, this Parliament has all rights to review the Constitutional provisions which are not implemented with immediate effect, and to ensure that Constitutional provisions are implemented with an aim to enhance the role of the country as a welfare state by taking more and more people along. ...(Interruptions)... I would like to ask the opposition members. ...(Interruptions)...
PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV (Uttar Pradesh): Sir, I am on a point of order only on the point he is speaking.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: All right. Bhupenderji, one minute...
PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV: Sir, Article 370 is a part of the Constitution of India. A Constitution Amendment is required to amend it or to abrogate it. It can be abrogated only through a Constitution Amendment, and not through any Resolutions. If any amendment is to be made in any article of the Constitution, if something has to be added or deleted, that may be amended only by a Constitution Amendment. Sir, I want your ruling on this. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Minister. ...(Interruptions)...
PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV: Sir, please give a ruling on this first. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Let me tell you ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Mr. Deputy Chairman Sir, I would have been happier if all members had sought to know from the Government under which article, under what procedure we are going to do this. It is good that Prof. Ram Gopalji has raised this issue ...(Interruptions)...
Mr. Deputy Chairman Sir, Article 370 itself contains the relevant provision. ...(Interruptions)... Please read Article 370(3) carefully ...(Interruptions)... Let me read Article 370(3) for the members of the House. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Nothing else will go on the record except what Mr. Minister is saying. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Article 370(3) says: “Notwithstanding anything in the foregoing provisions of this article, the President may, by public notification, declare 32 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Amit Shah] that this article shall cease to be operative or shall be operative only with such exceptions and modifications and from such date as he may specify:
Provided that the recommendation of the Constituent Assembly of the State referred to in clause (2) shall be necessary before the President issues such a notification.”
The President of the country has under Article 370 (3), the right to declare Article 370 as having ceased. ...(Interruptions)... This morning, the President has issued a notification, a constitutional order, in which he has said, “Constituent Assembly of Jammu and Kashmir means Jammu and Kashmir Assembly.” Since Constituent Assembly no longer exists, it has ceased to exist, so all powers of the Constituent Assembly rest with Jammu and Kashmir Assembly. ...(Interruptions)... Since the State is under President’s Rule, all powers of Jammu and Kashmir Assembly rest with both Houses of Parliament and we can pass this Order of the President with a simple majority. ...(Interruptions)...
Sir, it’s not the first time that this has happened. ...(Interruptions)... Previously, Congress party has amended Article 370 through these methods in 1952 and 1962, and we are following the same path. ...(Interruptions)... If they had participated in the discussion, I would have given all the details, through which the people of the country and those of Jammu and Kashmir would have known everything. But what they are saying has no merits, they only want to indulge in politicking, that’s why they are making this hue and cry here. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, through you, I once again appeal to Ghulam Nabi Sahab, as he hails from Kashmir and is aware of Kashmir’s anguish. ...(Interruptions)... How is Article 370 causing harm to Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... Please let me have my say, will you not give me even that right? ...(Interruptions)... There should be a dabate, there should be arguments and counter- arguements, but you don’t have to do anything.
You only have to make a hue and cry. ...(Interruptions)... I still maintain that all members of the House must go back to their seats. ...(Interruptions)... Whatever your doubts, apprehensions and mis-apprehensions, I am bound and ready to reply to all of them. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I have noted down your point of order, I will give my decision later on. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Minister of Home Affairs has clarified the legal position. Now I ask Bhupenderji to continue his speech. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI BHUPENDER YADAV: Mr. Deputy Chairman Sir, through you I would like to say that Hon’ble Minister of Home Affairs has just now clarified to the entire Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 33
House that the way amendments in Article 370 had been brought in by the Congress during their tenure, using the same clauses our Government has scrapped Article 370 today, and the Congress is trying to obstruct that for political reasons only.
Sir, why, after all, only Jammu and Kashmir is a victim of terrorism out of all the States that are there in India? Who, after all, bears the brunt of terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir? It is the women who suffer the pain of terrorism. Sir, I would like to congratulate Hon’ble Minister for Home Affairs for having paved the way for the women, the sisters of Jammu and Kashmir to get rid of the agony of terrorism, which they have faced for a long time, and for having paved the way for a peaceful Jammu and Kashmir by abrogating Article 370. Therefor I would also like to say, as Hon’ble Minister for Home Affairs has very clearly said in his statement how the provisions under Article 370 have been amended earlier, that the changes that are being made today are absolutely imperative for the country today, and I have said this earlier also that a resolution was passed on 20th December, 1961 to include Goa and Daman and Diu as territory in the country, and the incorporation of Puducherry was carried out on 28th December, 1962. Sir, Parliament has a power under the Constitution of the country to enact a law in connection with the redelineation of a State’s boundary, the development of the boundary States certainly this kind of a law in this regard has been brought by the Hon’ble Minister of Home Affairs.
Sir, I would like to ask if Article 370 is temporary and comes under Article 1, which defines all Indian Territory and boundaries, therefore Government has takena historic step using the power given in sub-clause (3) of Article 370 in a wise and resolute manner in the interest of India. We want to congratulate Hon’ble Minister of Home Affairs for this. I would also like to say that Parliament is considering this subject, since Jammu and Kashmir is under President’s rule and the Legislative Assembly has been suspended, but in this very session, Parliament has comprehensively discussed the first Bill related to reservation in Jammu and Kashmir, and all these parties had given their consensus at the time of discussion.
Sir, emotive issues were raised and development was stalled in the long-drown rule that was there in Jammu and Kashmir, but I want to ask and let the Congress tell us why corruption prevailed in Jammu and Kashmir, let the Congress tell us why Jammu and Kashmir could not witness any good governance, let the congress tell us how attempts have been made to misguide the youth in Jammu and Kashmir... we have had their discussion in the House earlier also. While speaking as Leader of the House, Shri Arun Jaitleyji, the former leader of the House, had said how, during Congress rule, elections were held in Jammu and Kashmir and how people were not being allowed to participate in elections in a free and fair manner through an official 34 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Bhupender Yadav] called Khaliq Mohammed Khan. Can the Congress tell us if their Article 370 was of any help in conducting fair elections in Jammu and Kashmir? By abrogating Article 370 today, we are moving in a direction where Jammu and Kashmir witnesses equal development with all other States of India. ...(Interruptions)...
Sir, I want to make another submission here through you. My submission is whether we should not give equal rights to all States to ensure the unity and integrity of India. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, should we not reconsider and review an Article which existed in the Constitution of our country as a temporary Article because of some special and immediate circumstances? When we say that India of the 21st century should transform into a powerful country. ...(Interruptions)... If India wants to be a powerful country, it wants that status by taking all its citizens along, by ensuring development in Jammu and Kashmir also and let me reiterate that this is the reason why a resolution has been brought here by the Minister of Home Affairs, and along with the resolution a Bill for the reorganisation of Jammu and Kashmir has also been presented by him. We have had discussions from time to time on the issue of reorganisation of States. Various commissions and committees have given their reports on the reorganisation of States. In the time of Late Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee ji also, three new States were formed. Why, after all, do we need development of States? ...(Interruptions)... In the border areas we are aware of the fact that we need to take various dimensions of development to the doorsteps of common man in an intensive manner through small administrative units, so that development reaches all people, resources for development are available to them, therefore administrative units have, in a way, been adjusted so that they get an opportunity to function in a strong and streamlined manner.
Sir, we are aware that Jammu and Kashmir is a sensitive State and we also know that the way terrorism is sometimes sponsored by some people in the Kashmir valley, especially by our neighbouring country, that causes inconvenience also to the people of Jammu and Ladakh areas, therefore an opportunity may be provided to all people to participate in the development by reorganising the units of the State in an organised manner. Government has accomplished this major task.
Sir, I would like to say this today that the first session of this Government has been historic for the entire country. People go to the extent of even saying that this Government’s first session has been the most productive Parliament session inthe last 70 years. In the first session of this Government a law like‘triple talaq’ was brought for women, a law like ‘insolvency’ was brought to reform the economy of the country, an amendment like ‘medical council’ was brought for the expansion of Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 35 the medical field, a law like ‘pocso’ was brought for children, as crimes against them are on the rise. ...(Interruptions)... And today, this resolution aiming to take the development of Jammu and Kashmir has been presented by the Minister of Home Affairs along with the resolution to abrogate Article 370, through which a good administrative set-up has been given to Jammu and Kashmir and its people have been included in the mainstream of development.
Sir, we are living as a welfare State. Our being a welfare State means that people must get their rights to development, they must get the right to live freely, all the citizens of India must get the right to move from one place to another place. We want to tell the members of the Opposition that we bought a law like Insolvency and Bankruptcy, but we cannot implement it there as Article 370 in in force. We brought a law like SARFAESI in banks, but we can not implement that because of the enforcement of Article 370. I would like to ask the members of the Opposition, and let them kindly tell us whether or not all reformist laws of India should be implemented in Jammu and Kashmir, and whether or not all the people of Jammu and Kashmir should get their rights in the path of India’s economic development. To ensure that they get their rights, we have taken the measures of the abrogation of Article 370 and the administrative reorganisation of Jammu and Kashmir. Sir, the biggest problem that the country is faced with is that Congress is not able to come out of delusion and what is its delusion? Congress profusely questioned us when we launched and implemented the Jan-Dhan scheme - it grilled us; when we framed the ‘Aadhaar’ law. Congress feels as if it has the natural right to run this country, but we want to say that now all those questions such as why, where and how which Congress used to fire upon us are over - and now why isit in the interest of India. Honourable Prime Minister Narendra Bhai Modi wants to do it ...(Interruptions).... Sir, I want to say that the first priority of our Government is to protect human rights ensuring that mothers and sisters of our country can live safely in their homes. Hence, if there has been any Government that has taken the strongest action against terrorism, it is our Government. ...(Interruptions)... Along with this, I want to say that for the first time our Government has decided that if there is any attempt made to bring sponsored terrorism in this country, then Our Government has taken a firm decision that it will launch surgical and air strikes by hitting the root of that terrorism ...(Interruptions)... Our Government has fought against black money ...(Interruptions)... Today, I want to congratulate Prime Minister Narendra Bhai Modi for his spectacular works in the last five years in our country such as launching welfare schemes for the poor ...(Interruptions)... according due attention to the security of our country and enhancing the pride of the country. For all this, 36 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Bhupender Yadav] I want to congratulate him. ...(Interruptions)... not only this, we will only be able to provide security to this country, when we are capable enough to protect our borders and we will only be able to protect our border, when we are able to provide good administrative status to Jammu and Kashmir and such provision has been made in this Bill. ...(Interruptions)...
Sir, I once again want to say to the people of Congress that you should leave this antipathy and stop hurting the dignity of this House. I would rather say that you should come forward for realizing the development of the country; come forward to strengthen the Indian democracy; let us all come together to take India forward by chanting Bharat Mata ki Jai. We want to call upon our opposition again that the opportunities for facing challenges are very rare. Sir, I want to say one thing here. I remember an example of the Mahabharata. ...(Interruptions)... The whole story of Mahabharata is about two brothers. ...(Interruptions)... the Kauravas and the Pandavas. There comes a time when the Pandavas go into the forest ...(Interruptions)... At that time Duryodhana comes after them to see what their condition is in the forest. Duryodhana is then besieged in the forest. Seeing this, Bhima becomes happy. He feels that Duryodhana was opposing them, today he has been besieged. At that time Yudhishthar says that Bhima, at this time neither are they hundred and nor are we five - Vayam Panchadhika Shatam ...(Interruptions)... I want to say to the people of Congress that you and we are not separate, we all are one. Our aim is to develop Jammu and Kashmir. Our aim is to make Jammu and Kashmir a State with good administrative facilities. Our goal is to end terrorism from Jammu and Kashmir, and if any temporary clause was inserted 70 years ago because of certain circumstances, then our aim is to put an end to it and give freedom to 125 crore people of India to move freely in Jammu and Kashmir. Thus the task before us is to advance India by pushing Kashmir forward.
Therefore, I again want to say through you that this house has been a witness to historical debates. This upper house has a tradition of debate and arguments against each other. The Honourable Minister of Home Affairs has also called upon here through you. Hon’ble Minister of Home Affairs has tried to clarify the question which was asked by Shri Ram Gopal Yadav Ji. ...(Interruptions)... Hon’ble Minister of Home Affairs has assured the House that we are ready to answer every question of the opposition, to discuss every subject raised by the opposition, to clarify every doubt of opposition ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Vaiko, it is wrong to say that we are bringing some kind of provisions of emergency. We are people who believe in freedom of expression. We want to say that it is House. Please sit in this house and tell whatever you want to say ...(Interruptions)... Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 37
Sir, I want to say again in my speech that when the Rule Book is given ...(Interruptions)... then Rule 235 (vii) states that everyone should go to their respective seats ...(Interruptions)... You people should try to present your views calmly over the subject once with your discretion. The people of the country are witnessing the views of all members, but running away from the debate, quitting the debate, raising slogans, not letting the House run, misleading the House - all these things, which the Congress is doing, I feel that this reflects the mentality of the Congress in which they have the feeling of being a ruler. If there is any ruler in this country, it is the people of the country. The people of our country are the rulers of this country. The people of Jammu and Kashmir are our own brothers and sisters. ...(Interruptions)... This resolution has been brought by the Government today, to protect them, to free them from terrorism, to make good administrative arrangements for them. ...(Interruptions)... At this historic moment, the leadership of our Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi and the tenacity of our Home Minister, Shri Amit Shah, with which he has taken forward the subjects of security of the country. I want to congratulate him again for this. ...(Interruptions)... We will serve Jammu and Kashmir with this firmness. We will try to take forward the unity of India with the people of Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, in our party, we have been raising slogans since childhood, be it Kashmir or Kanyakumari, there is a sense of unity in the whole country. Kashmir has a full sense of a cultural consciousness in the entire country. ...(Interruptions)... Kashmir is a cultural heritage of the whole country; its development is the responsibility of every citizen of India. The way to development cannot come only through speeches, it comes with perseverance. ...(Interruptions)... For the issue of development, a necessary administrative structure would have to be prepared. Leadership has to move forward with determination for development. ...(Interruptions)... The resolve with which the leadership of our country has moved forward today has certainly moved forward towards the further journey of development of Jammu and Kashmir and India. ...(Interruptions)... Therefore, through you, today, this resolution that has been placed by the Hon’ble Home Minister before the House, the Bill that has been brought by Hon’ble Home Minister and the subject of economic reservation in Jammu and Kashmir that has been placed by the welfare state of the country, I would like to congratulate the Government again for all these subjects. ...(Interruptions)... I want the entire house to be a part of this journey of development of India. Jai Hind, Jai Bharat.
Mr. Deputy Chairman: Honourable Ghulam Nabi Azadji. Prof. Ram Gopal YadavJi, Your order follows in this debate, please speak now.
Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav (Uttar Pradesh): Sir, the House is not in order. ...(Interruptions)... I will not speak. 38 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri A. Navaneethakrishnan.
SHRI A. NAVANEETHAKRISHNAN (Tamil Nadu): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, I may be permitted to go back and speak. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I permit you to go there and speak. ...(Interruptions)... Please speak. Only what you are saying is going on the record.
SHRI A. NAVANEETHAKRISHNAN: Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, I welcome these two Statutory Resolutions and also the Reorganisation and Reservation Bills applicable to the State of Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... There is nothing to worry. I may be permitted to read Article 370, because Articles 370(1)(a) and (b) contemplate limited power to Parliament to make laws with regard to Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... At the same time, I would like to draw the kind attention of this House to sub-clause (3) of Article 370, which says, “Notwithstanding anything in the foregoing provisions of this article, the President may, by public notification, declare that this article shall cease to be operative or shall be operative only with such exceptions and modifications and from such date as he may specify.” ...(Interruptions)... So, Article 370 is only temporary in nature. Also, Part XXI of the Constitution reads as follows, “Temporary, Transitional and Special Provisions”. ...(Interruptions)... So, Article 370 is only temporary in nature. Now, the Central Government has rightly brought forward these two Resolutions and also two enactments. ...(Interruptions)... Hon. Amma is well known for her upholding the sovereignty and integrity. ...(Interruptions)... So, we, the AIADMK Government, Amma’s Government, the AIADMK Party, support the two Resolutions and also support the Reorganization Bill and also the Reservation Bill. Thank you, Sir.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri Prasanna Acharya. Only your speech will go on record. Only your speech will go on record. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Vaiko, please. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI PRASANNA ACHARYA (Odisha): Deputy Chairman Sir, it is a shameful day for this House, this Parliament and India. ...(Interruptions)... In this very House that holy Constitution has been dishonoured for which millions of countrymen had scarificed their lives. I condemn this. Sir, this is unpardonable. ...(Interruptions)... Many lives have been scarificed to create the Constitution of this country. ...(Interruptions)... And in this House, we are dishonouring the Constitution. ...(Interruptions)... I agree with the Leader of the Opposition ...(Interruptions)... I really condemn this. Me and my Party also unequivocally condemn this action to ...(Interruptions)... the Constitution of India. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 39
But secondly, at the same time, Sir, I feel that Jammu and Kashmir in true sense has become a part of India. We always say that Jammu and Kashmir is an integral part of India. ...(Interruptions)... But was it really an integral part of India? ...(Interruptions)... The Constitution of this country was not applicable there. ...(Interruptions)... An Indian citizen was not permitted to buy any land there and we said that Jammu and Kashmir is an integral part of India.
Sir, I want to thank the Hon’ble Minister of Home Affairs that today Constitution of India in real sense is applicable there and in real term Jammu and Kashmir has became an integral part of India today only. ...(Interruptions)... I don’t want to say much and the environment is also not conducive to speak, but I will say one thing that I will be happy that day and entire India will also congratulate this Government when Pakistan occupied Kashmir will become a part of Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... Today, 130 crores of Indians are waiting for that day when Pakistan occupied Kashmir will become an integral part of Kashmir and India. We are waiting for that day. Sir, I will say one thing that we shed lot of tears for Kashmiris, and we are very concerned about the freedom of the people of Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... We want to redeem the people of Kashmir from torture, we want to take the people of Kashmir at par the rest of India. ...(Interruptions)... But at the same time, we are forgetting what happened to the Kashmiri Pandits. ...(Interruptions)... For the last 70 years, did anybody who are now shedding crocodile tears for Kashmir ever think about the Kashmiri Pandits? What their condition had become in last 70 years? All those people who are shedding crocodile tears for a Kashmiri, have ever thought of the Kashmiri Pandits? What have we done with them? Sir, if the environment would have been conducive for discussion then lot of things would have been revealed. I want to say one thing through you. ...(Interruptions)...
Therefore, Sir, I support this Resolution. ...(Interruptions)... My Party, the Biju Janta Dal, supports this Resolution. We are a Regional Party. But for us, the nation is first. The integrity, safety and security of India is first. ...(Interruptions)... We are a Regional Party. We have our regional aspiration. But for us, our Motherland, Bharat Mata, is the utmost. ...(Interruptions)... Therefore, Sir, I support this Resolution. ...(Interruptions)...
Sir, on this Reservation (Second Amendment) Bill, I have only one query to seek from the hon. Home Minister. ...(Interruptions)... After this Resolution, this reservation will be null and void. So, I don’t understand why the Government has come forward with this Resolution. After this House approves this Resolution, this Bill is going to become null and void. I hope the hon. Home Minister would clarify this. 40 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Prasanna Acharya] I would once again reiterate my point that the freedom, integrity, sovereignty and honour of Bharatmata is utmost for us. Therefore, my only submission is that so far as Kashmir is concerned, let us all rise above petty politics. I reiterate once again that my party, the Biju Janata Dal, my leader, Shri Naveen Patnaik, and me, in this House, equivocally support this Resolution and the Bill.
Thank you very much, Sir.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri Ram Nath Thakur. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI VAIKO (Tamil Nadu): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, I have. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I have not permitted you. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI RAM NATH THAKUR (Bihar): Deputy Chairman Sir, I boycott the Bill and the Resolution presented by Home Minister, Shri Amit ShahJi on my behalf and on behalf of my party with this clarification that since 1996 our party has taken the stand that on contentious issues like article 370 and civil courts, we will accept the ruling given by the court or the decision arrived at through mutual agreement. I and my party are in this favour that this should be settled through mutual agreement. What have we gained or lost in last 70 years? I want to tell that unemployed were not provided with any employment. Neither any development took place nor SC and OBC reservation was implemented. ...(Interruptions)... We all are united as far as nationalism is concerned. With these words my party boycotts this move.
(At this stage some hon. Members left the Chamber)
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now, Prof. Manoj Kumar Jha.
PROF. MANOJ KUMAR JHA (Bihar): Sir, unless the House is in order...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The House is in order.
PROF. MANOJ KUMAR JHA: Sir, the House is not in order. This is unprecedented. This has never happened.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri Swapan Dasgupta. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Vaiko, you have not been allowed to speak. When your turn comes, I would allow you. Please, take your seat. ...(Interruptions)... Shri Swapan Dasgupta.
SHRI SWAPAN DASGUPTA (Nominated): Sir, this is a very proud day for the whole country, and it is a very proud day, particularly, for us who came from Kolkata because the movement for the abolition of Article 370 was begun by the local MP for Kolkata (South), Dr. Shyama Prasad Mukherjee, in 1953. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 41
Sir, it is a very, very proud day. It is a very proud day because in future, we will not have Bills which would have the clause which says that ‘this will not be applicable to the State of Jammu and Kashmir.’ Only the other day, in this House, we passed the Triple Talaq Bill. That was a very important Bill because it was a major step towards getting rid of what can be called a differentiated citizenship. Today, Sir, we have taken the other step. We have made all citizens of this country equal. That equality was not there. But it is far more important that we have established the sovereignty of the Indian Parliament to the whole of India.
Sir, this is a very momentous step. The great political will this needed is something I wish to compliment both the Prime Minister as well as the Home Minister for. This is a momentous step, Sir. It is a step which really once again brings the country together.
Sir, on 15th August, 1947, Pandit Nehru gave a very good speech which we call the ‘Tryst with Destiny’ speech. One of the statements that he used there was “the soul of a nation long suppressed finds expression”. Sir, that expression was not fully met on 15th August, 1947. Today, I believe, we have taken a giant step towards redeeming that pledge and, I think, it is unfortunate that it has been marred by some ugly scenes. Two questions that I want to ask the hon. Home Minister by way of clarification are these. One, does the repeal of Article 370 require aformal constitutional Amendment? I think, he needs to clarify it explicitly. I may know the answer personally but, I think, the country would like to know that. Secondly, at present the status of Jammu and Kashmir becomes that of a Union Territory. I think it would in the fitting nature of things if an assurance can be given that thisis only transitional and, in due course, Jammu and Kashmir will become a full-fledged State and join other parts of the Union of India and the equal status. Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to speak.
SHRI VAIKO: What happened to my turn to speak? ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Your name is there. I will call you; it will come ...(Interruptions)... You are not permitted. Only Shri Sanjay Raut’s speech will go on record. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI SANJAY RAUT (Maharashtra): Deputy Chairman Sir, Thank you very much that you have given me the opportunity to speak. The Minister of Home Affairs Sir, when you were proposing the abrogation of article 370, then not only in India but throughout the world where ever Indians live, there was an environment of joy and excitement. Abrogation of article 370 means to kill a Bhasmasur, kill a demon. It was to wipe a stigma with which this country and its constitution was 42 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Sanjay Raut] marred for the past 70 years. I want to tell the Minister of Home Affairs that no doubt the country is happy today, but the leaders like Veer Savarkar, Deen Dayal Upadhyay, Dr. Shyama Prasad Mukherjee and emperor of Hindu hearts Bala Saheb Thackeray will be showering flowers from the heaven on you.
Sir, our ancestors and this country had a dream of undivided India. If we talk about country then in real sense the merger of Jammu and Kashmir didn’t happen in 1947, but it has happened today. You have taken a step which was stalled for the past 70 years, the whole country and this House had been awaiting this. We are being threatened of riots. It was said that if article 370 is abrogated then riots will take place, and the hands that touch the article 370 will be burnt. If they have the courage then they should do it. Why are we sitting here and why are the Minister of Home Affairs and the Prime Minister sitting here? They should do away with the language of threat from now. This is a strong Government which has demonstrated that how the Government functions and the courage and strength which is needed to keep the country undivided is visible today in this Government. Those, who have opposed, this are these same people who have exploited the people of Jammu and Kashmir for the past seventy years. ...(Interruptions)... They were always discouraged to join the main stream of India and always tutored to consider India as their enemy, but it was not so. Whether it is Kashmiri Pandits or Muslim brethren, every one wished for the abrogation of this article so that they can become an integral part of India and can participate in the main stream of India, but it was not allowed to happen. This day will become a history, 5th August will be remembered as a historic day in Indian history like our independence Day on 15th August and August Kranti Day on 8th August. We have added one more day of historical importance in the month of August. I believe that you have taken a difficult and strong decision. This decision will be opposed, but you see opposition is resting here in the well. You see, how peacefully they are dozing. Let them relax and we will work. Today, we have taken Jammu-Kashmir, tomorrow we will take over Baluchistan and POK. I believe that the dream of undivided India will definitely be fulfilled by this Government, by the Prime Minister and by the Minister of Home Affairs of this country.
With these words. I welcome this Bill of re-organization of Jammu - Kashmir, which has been presented here, on behalf of entire Shiv Sena, on behalf of Udhav Thackeray ji, on behalf of Maharashtra and on behalf of the land of Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj. Jai Hind.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, there is a message. ...(Interruptions)... Message from Chairman, please hear. Some leaders met hon. Vice-President Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 43 and requested to extend the time for giving amendments beyond 12.30 p.m. ...(Interruptions)... Now, the Chairman has decided to extend the time for amendments up to 2.30 p.m. ...(Interruptions)... He wanted Members to go to their seats and participate in the debate. ...(Interruptions)... Hon. Members, I want to remind you again that Mr. Chairman has given this instruction that there will be no lunch break today. House has also agreed to it. ...(Interruptions)... Those members who want to go for lunch can do so, and they can attend the debate afterward. This debate will continue. ...(Interruptions)... Shri Satish Chandra Misra.
SHRI VAIKO: Sir, when will my turn come? ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: When your turn comes, I will call you. ...(Interruptions)... You are not permitted, Mr. Vaiko. ...(Interruptions)... No permission to you. ...(Interruptions)...Only Satish Chand Misraji’s speech will go on record. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI SATISH CHANDRA MISRA (Uttar Pradesh): Sir, We had said that we will support this Bill. I would like to give some reasons for it. ...(Interruptions)... In this country Muslim minority not only resides in Jammu - Kashmir but their number is quite high in the entire country in comparison to Jammu and Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... They have the right to buy the property there, become a citizen there. This right was denied to them till now. This Bill will give the right to all the minorities, the downtrodden and backward people of the country. Muslim minority, which is in large number and stays throughout the country, will now be able to go there and purchase property. They will be called the citizen of that place. That’s why my party has taken this decision. The Chief of my party Behan Mayawati ji has decided that we are supporting this Bill. Thank you.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri V. Vijaya Sai Reddy. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI VAIKO: Sir, what about me? ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: When your turn would come, I will call you. Your name is there in the list of speakers. ...(Interruptions)... Please take your seat. ...(Interruptions)... No, I have not allowed you. ...(Interruptions)... Only Shri V. Vijayasai Reddy’s speech will go on record. ...(Interruptions)... You are not allowed. ...(Interruptions)... Vijayasai Reddyji, only your speech will go on record. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI V. VIJAYASAI REDDY (Andhra Pradesh): Sir, can I speak on all the four Bills? ...(Interruptions)... 44 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
1.00 p.m.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You speak. Nothing else is going on record. Only your speech will go on record. You speak. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI V. VIJAYASAI REDDY: Sir, it is a great privilege and honour for me to speak on this very important subject which has been pinching the country for the last many years. ...(Interruptions)... And, hats-off to the hon. Home Minister and the hon. Prime Minister for their vision. ...(Interruptions)... This will completely solve the problem of Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... The courageous, bold and daring step by the hon. Home Minister will be remembered in the Indian Parliamentary history for ever. ...(Interruptions)... Our Party President, Shri Jaganmohan Reddy Guru and our Party wholeheartedly support this move of the hon. Home Minister and the hon. Prime Minister of the country. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, I have a few questions to be asked to the principal Opposition party, in this august House, the Congress Party. ...(Interruptions)... Had Pt. Nehru not recalled the Indian Army which had gone 25 kilometers inside Pakistan and over-powered the Pakistani Army, we would not have been discussing this issue here. ...(Interruptions)... Secondly, had Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru entrusted the job to Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, who was the icon of unification of India, we would not have been discussing this issue. Had Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru not succumb to the dictates of the then Kashmir Ruler for Article 370, we would not have been discussing this issue. Had this provision in the Constitution, which is temporary in nature, been dispensed with by the Congress Party, which they have not done, we would not have been discussing this issue now. Sir, I have a few points to bring to the notice of this House. As two swords cannot be incorporated in one sheath, how can we have two separate entities within the Union of India? Number one, how can this country have two Constitutions? Number two, how can a State have two separate flags? Number three, just show me one country onthis earth where a national flag is burnt, torn off and such an act does not constitute a crime? It happens only in Jammu and Kashmir. Then, how can a Pakistani become a citizen of India by simply marrying a Kashmiri girl? How can a country have two Prime Ministers and a separate Governor? We had this in Jammu and Kashmir. How can a Kashmiri girl become untouchable and lose all her rights and her children’s rights if she marries a boy from any other part of India? How can a boy retain all rights and privileges even if he marries a girl from other parts of the country? Is it gender justification or blatant gender discrimination?
Sir, I have one more point to be brought to the notice of this House. The people of this country have been fighting since 1947 to realize their dream of looking India as one entity, one Union and one nation, which is possible only because of the Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 45 present Home Minister, Shri Amit Shah. And, the proposed move of the hon. Home Minister — I am very happy that the hon. Home Minister is fulfilling the task that had been left out by Sardar Vallabhai Patel, albeit, due to blunder of the Congress Party and Jawahar Lal Nehru, I am repeating due to blunder of the Congress Party and Nehru --is applauded by 130 crore people of this country, because the objective is to achieve Sab Ka Vikas.
Now, I will make last few points. This move will definitely strengthen the sovereignty of the country. This move will remove discrimination between citizens of India. This move paves the way to remove sub-clause (3) of Article 370, which is absolutely temporary in nature. This move will bring peace and tranquility in Jammu and Kashmir. This move will help to develop Jammu and Kashmir along with other States and improve the socio-economic conditions of the people.
With these submissions, I once again reiterate our full-fledged support to the vision of the Home Minister and the Government of India. I once again congratulate hon. Prime Minister and hon. Home Minister for taking this bold and courageous step. Thank you very much, Sir.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Honourable Shrimati Ambika Soni, Honourable Shrimati Ambika Soni, Honourable Shrimati Ambika Soni. Shri Biswajit Daimary. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI BISWAJIT DAIMARY (Assam): Sir, I thank you that you have allowed me to speak on this issue.
SHRI VAIKO: Sir, what about my name?
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: When it comes, I will call you. Please take your seat.
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Deputy Chairman Sir, allow Vaikoji to speak first, nobody has any objection to it. Allow him to speak first. Vaikoji, now you sit down, you can speak after him. He has started his speech.
SHRI BISWAJIT DAIMARY: Sir, I support this Bill. I believe that this Bill is the call of time and also the need of time. It was very much necessary for our country, its law and order, universalization and the security of this country to present the Bill. During the last five-six years, very bad condition has been developing in Jammu and Kashmir. Jammu and Kashmir has slipped in such a bad condition that it was moving away from our control. If we have to bring it under our control then definitely it was necessary to change the administrative system there. Today through 46 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Biswajit Daimary] this constitutional amendment, the proposed system of reorganization of State is the need of time. Until the system follows existing provisions, till then the efforts of our Central Government to bring the changes will not be successful. That’s why it was necessary to amend our constitution. Amending the constitution is not any illegal thing. It is given in the constitution that if any necessity arises then we can add any provision to the constitution and same way to have a better law and order situation in the country we can delete any provision. This is only a system. Sir, I feel that if normalcy and trust gets restored in Jammu and Kashmir in coming 10 to 20 years, then again its statehood can also be restored through a constitutional amendment. This is not a big issue. Therefore, I thank our Prime Minister and Amit Shahji that they have taken such a strong and bold decision to abrogate article 370 in Jammu and Kashmir and designate it as a union territory, for security of the nation. Being a union territory, the Central Government will be getting the information about the onging activities on the border and we can make some strategy for the country on this issue. This way it is an important decision for the safety of our country.
Sir, along with this, I want to bring some more issues in the knowledge of Home Minister. There are some other problems in our country which need the similar solutions. I want to tell that in our North-East there are many separatist groups, who have been demanding a separate State. Some constitutional provisions had been made to solve their problem of a separate state by way of sixth schedule. Despite this, those groups are not satisfied and demanding a separate State. Sir, there isan article 244A in our constitution. In article 244A there is a provision of formation of an autonomous state within the state of Assam by means of merging the tribal areas listed in sixth schedule. I would request the Home Minister that he should consider the implementation of article 244A of constitution there.
Further, there is a demand of separate Bodoland also. ...(Time Bell rings).... Those who demand separate Bodoland are staying near Bhutan border, and China is adjoining Bhutan, In Doklam. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now you conclude. ...(Interruptions)... Other speakers are also in the list. ...(Interruptions)... You conclude ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI BISWAJIT DAIMARY: Sir, Please give some more time. ...(Interruptions)... Two minutes more ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: No, No. ...(Interruptions)... You conclude. ...(Interruptions)... Two more members from the list have to speak. ...(Interruptions)... Only 3 minutes time is left. ...(Interruptions)... You conclude it. ...(Interruptions)... Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 47
SHRI BISWAJIT DAIMARY: Sir, I am about to conclude. ...(Interruptions)... I have only one point to make. ...(Interruptions)... My last point is that border area of Bhutan is adjoining China. If a union territory is formed for those who are demanding separate Bodoland then activities on China border can be controlled. ...(Interruptions)... I request for that. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Thank you. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI BISWAJIT DAIMARY: Same way in Karbi, Dimasa, Gorkhaland and Manipur ...(Interruptions)... Sir, all these are adjoining areas. ...(Interruptions)... That is adjoining Mayanmar. ...(Interruptions)... That is adjoining Mayanmar. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Thank you. ...(Interruptions)... I am calling another speaker. ...(Interruptions)... Shri Vaiko...(Interruptions)...
SHRI BISWAJIT DAIMARY: Sir, with Pakistan ...(Interruptions)... With Mayanmar ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri Vaiko, your name was third in the list. ...(Interruptions)... I am calling you as per norms and your time is three minutes only. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI BISWAJIT DAIMARY: Sir, it is necessary to solve all these problems. Thank you. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri Vaiko, please speak. Your speech will go on record. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI VAIKO: Sir, I would request the hon. Home Minister that just now he stated that Vaiko will be permitted to speak. But, hon. Deputy Chairman is saying that my time is only three minutes. Opposition parties have not spoken.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Let me clear that there are nine speakers ...(Interruptions)... and only 27 minutes’ time is left. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI VAIKO: If you are not giving me time then do not allow me to speak also. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I will give you one more minute. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI VAIKO: This is very important and you are telling me that my time is only three minutes!
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I will give you one more minute. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI VAIKO: Shouting takes place for three hours and you are allowing me for only three minutes. ...(Interruptions)... 48 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Do not waste your time. ...(Interruptions)... You are a senior Member and a seasoned parliamentarian. ...(Interruptions)... Please speak. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI VAIKO: Is it possible to talk in three minutes? ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I am going as per the record ...(Interruptions)... and norms of the House. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI VAIKO: I will first ask the Government. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, the great parliamentarian, Shri H.V. Kamath, when Article 356 was discussed, he stated that this day is a day of shame and sorrow. Today, it is a day of sorrow because we have not kept our promise that when the Pakistani troops, Pakhtoons, entered the terrain of Kashmir, King Hah Singh sent the emissary to Jawaharlal Nehru. Lord Mountbatten was also there. Jawaharlal Nehru accepted it and the Instrument of Accession was signed. Sheikh Abdullah, the Lion of Kashmir, the great leader of the Muslim population of the Valley supported and said, “Let us go with India but with the condition that the individuality and the originality of the State of Jammu and Kashmir cannot be compromised, and, therefore, there should be a plebiscite.” This was promised by none other than late Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru. He wrote a letter to the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom that plebiscite will be held. In 1948, 1949, 1950, 1952 till 1958, for Sheikh Abdullah, what was the reward? He was put behind the bars in Kodaikanal prison in Tamil Nadu. Then, what happened in 1964? M.C. Chagla, India’s Ambassador to the United States, said, “Already elections have taken place, and, that is the plebiscite.” A fraud was committed by the Congress Party. I have got all the respect for Jawahar Lal Nehru’s Discovery of India and Glimpses of World History. There is no parallel book in the history. I have all the respect for Jawahar Lal Nehru but the promise of plebiscite was not kept. You did a plebiscite in Junagarh. Here, what has happened further? You said the individuality will be protected by Article 370 and 35A. Today, Mr. Nazir Ahmed Laway did tear the Constitution here. He did tear the Constitution here. I won’t object even if the * by him. I won’t object. Please listen. * in 1986 on the issue of imposition of Hindi language and I was imprisoned when Mr. Chidambaram asked, “You write your version on a piece of paper that you did not *.” In the same House, I asked, “Mr. Chidambaram, would you yield for a minute?” I filed a separate affidavit in the court saying that I have * I was prepared eventobe expelled. Mr. Chidambaram kept quite. Now, I tell you, all these years, every time, the Congress Party killed democracy. When Farooq Abdullah was taking a cup of
*Expunged as ordered by the Chair. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 49 tea in the morning, he came to know that his Government was dismissed. I told my friend, Farooq Abdullah, “You forgot the advice given by your great father, Sheikh Abdullah.” When he took me to meet Sheikh Abdullah in 1980, Sheikh Abdullah told me, “My young friend from Tamil Nadu, don’t forget that in the dictionary of Indian political history, there is no place for either for friendship or for gratitude in the Congress Party.” These are the words of Sheikh Abdullah. Now, what has happened? You have not only bifurcated. Nomenclature, it has always been changed. When the Puducherry is claiming for Statehood, you are equating Puducherry with Union Territory of Jammu and Kashmir and Union Territory of Ladakh. When the Kargil War took place, Atal Bihari Vajpayee was the Prime Minister of this country. My beloved friend, late George Fernandes, was the Defence Minister of the country. Our Tamil boys sacrificed their lives in Kargil, shed their blood, we gave our lives for the protection of Kashmir. But, what has happned now? Taliban, one side, Al Qaeda, one side. Now, you are playing into the hands. This Government, I am telling you. ...(Interruptions)... Please listen to me. Please listen if you are really interested in this issue. Shakespeare said in Macbeth, “Even thousand perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten this little hand of Lady Macbeth”. That has happened today. That has happened today. You have removed all the powers. The Statehood, a separate State, a separate Constituent Assembly, a separate Constitution, a separate flag, a Prime Minister, all these things were assured by the Congress Party. Not by that side. Not by the BJP. It is you who promised that. You did break the promise by toppling the Governments frequently. You played with the sentiments of the people of Kashmir.
Sir, what has been bothering me for the last few days is that Army personnel in large numbers are being deployed there. Really, my heart is burning because it should not become a Kosovo. Kashmir should not become a Kosovo. Kashmir should not become an East Timor. Kashmir should not become a South Sudan. This may happen. Kashmir will become a South Sudan. Kashmir will become a Kosovo. Please listen to me. If you are really interested in democracy, listen to my view. You may differ with my view. It will be internationalized by the United Nations. There are countries which are opposed to India. There are enemies of India. They will use this card. The United Nations Human Rights Council will definitely interfere and Trump is playing his cards very carefully. He is a *. Donald Trump is a *. He is playing his cards very carefully. On one side, we have China. On the other side, we have Pakistan. Then we have Afghanistan this side. From one side, we have Taliban and from another side, we have Al Qaeda. They will say that it has become a Kosovo; it has become a South Sudan; it has become an East Timor; therefore, we have to
*Expunged as ordered by the Chair. 50 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Vaiko] interfere. This will come. The interference is going to come from the United Nations. Now Jammu and Kashmir has been made a powder keg. I am worried. I am really worried about the future. Today, on this particular Bill, I shed my tears of blood. I am not going to live for more than ten or fifteen years. But even after my demise, my grandchildren will not forget this day. This Bill should be thrown out. This Bill should be rejected lock, stock and barrel. But the main culprit is the Congress Party. I am opposing this Bill. I am terribly opposing this Bill. You are playing with the sentiments. Here was my colleague, Shri Nazir Ahmed Laway. You may throw him out using your marshals. Mr. Deputy Chairman, you can throw him out through your marshals. But there are lakhs and lakhs of Muslim youths of Kashmir. Will you throw them out? Will you throw them out? No. No. Fire is burning. Fire is burning in the hearts and minds of the Kashmiri people. For powder keg, one spark is enough. That spark is the Bill. I oppose the Bill. This is a day of shame, murder of democracy. Today, democracy has been murdered.
THE MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE; THE MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS; AND THE MINISTER OF ELECTRONICS AND INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY (SHRI RAVI SHANKAR PRASAD): Sir, the hon. Member has made a very eloquent speech. He is entitled to his views. But there are certain very disturbing references to the Constitution. ...(Interruptions)... Those references must be deleted.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: It will be examined. And as per the norms, we will take action.
DR. SUBHASH CHANDRA (Haryana): Deputy Chairman Sir, I am thankful to you for allowing me to speak on this issue. This is my maiden speech in House but as an independent member I don’t know whether to call this fortunate or unfortunate. Through you I want to say the House that till yesterday night I did not know whether the amendment being presented today will be good or bad. But, today morning when I came to know about this amendment my heart knew no bounds. As an independent member I congratulate the Prime Minister, the Home Minister and this Government that you have brought this amendment. Sir, through you I want to tell the House, reason behind my happiness. Mr. Deputy Chairman Sir, there were general elections in Pakistan in 1994-95 for their Parliament. Ms. Benzir Bhutto was the Prime Minister. Pakistani national channel and our Zee TV were watched on television in those days. ...(Interruptions)... Ms. Benzir Bhutto had banned the election campaigning of Nawaz Shariff and present Prime Minister Imran Khan on Pakistani Television. ...(Interruptions)... We had sent our teams from London and equally campaigned for every one throughout Pakistan. Afterward, Government invited Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 51 us as a guest. ...(Interruptions)... An association in Pakistan called ‘Judiciary Committee’ invited me for dinner. During the course of discussion they have mentioned that if my Government abrogates the article 370 then the issue of Kashmir will automatically be finished. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, this happened in 1994-95. After returning back I asked all my political friends and all political parties why they were not abrogating this article 370. I would like to tell that I have more friends in Congress than in BJP. ...(Interruptions)... Every one said that this article should be removed but added that it is a big political issue, so politically it does not suit to anybody. It does not suit us, so we are not abrogating it. ...(Interruptions)... This was the matter which I recalled today morning. By bringing this Bill you have really done a commendable work, therefore I congratulate you. ...(Interruptions)... My friend, the leader of opposition, who is not sitting here, has said that due to article 370 Kashmir was merged in India. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, his statement is wrong because merger took place in 1947 and article 370 came in to existence in 1949. He also said that since then till now lakhs of people have died in Kashmir. Whether it is paramilitary forces, whether it is the children or youth of Kashmir or political parties, if people had died there then it was due to article 370. If this article 370 would not have been there, then whatever has happened in the House, whatever has been done by two members and the dishonour that has been shown to the constitution, that would not have taken place. This has displayed their intentions. ...(Interruptions)... They never had a respect for the Constitution of India. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please go and speak from your seat. ...(Interruptions)... Maintain the tradition. ...(Interruptions)... Go to your seat and speak. ...(Interruptions)... This is the House of Elders. ...(Interruptions)...
DR. SUBHASH CHANDRA: I find myself capable of taking this decision, as what so ever, my colleague Shri V. Vijaysai Reddy has narrated about Pt. Nehru and about other incidents, I will not comment whether it was right or wrong. ...(Interruptions)... But, if you look under present perspective and contemplate over past instances then it becomes clear that environment in Kashmir would not have been so violent if article 370 would not have existed. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Deputy Chairman Sir, I accept this that this House, the other House and we all are responsible that on the one hand we may talk of progress, development, but with it we should taking their comfort and happiness also. ...(Interruptions)... I visited Kashmir in 2018 last year. I produce a TV program Subhash Chandra Show with youths. My program was there in Baramula and about 2000 youths were present there. The then Chief Minister, Madam Mahbuba has told me that I should not visit that region as she can’t take the guarantee of my safety. But, still I had gone there and for four hours I had an open discussion with 2000 52 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Dr. Subhash Chandra] youths there. After returning to Delhi, I told everyone that youth and every, Kashmiri wants to stay with India, but these separatist people don’t allow them to do that. They are afraid of them. They worry due to them and are upset. They have requested not to consider the Kashmiri as a terrorist and don’t portray them as a terrorist on television. Sir, I want to say through you that since that day we had decided and we are still abiding that we don’t consider Kashmiri people as terrorists. They are not the terrorist. Some separatists are there, they are spoiling their image. So being an independent member I fully support this Bill. I will also request the opposition to give their views, so that if it is important, it can also be incorporated. Once upon a time Kashmir was a heaven and there is a saying about it:
“Gar firdaus ber ruye zami ast, Hami asto, hami asto, hami ast.”
If any heaven is there on earth, then it is in Kashmir. But, where has that heaven gone? You people have turned it upside down. In place of heaven it had become a hell. I feel that the Bill which Minister of Home Affairs has brought, will help Kashmir to turn again into a heaven. I have faith that it will turn into a heaven from the hell. You have given me the opportunity to speak, so thank you very much. I am thankful to you.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Hon. Anand Sharmaji. Shri Sushil Kumar Gupta. Shri Amar Singh.
SHRI AMAR SINGH (Uttar Pradesh): Deputy Chairman Sir, thank you very much for allowing me to speak on such an important issue.
Hon’ble Minister of Home Affairs has made it clear that the legislative powers of the legislative assembly now lies with the House and due to that House has the right to take decision about article 370. I have been associated with Samajvadi Party in my life for a longer period. In the last few days, I have not resigned from any party, not once but twice, I have been expelled from the party, so I should not be called a turncoat. I want to ask where the resistance is. Dr. Ram Manohar Lohia used to organize a ‘Ramayan Mela’ at Chitrakut, where he use to invite Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Mahadevi Verma. Respected Adwani Ji in his book “My Country, My Life’ has mentioned about unrealistic division of India. He is still with us. May God make him a centurion! Under his meditation Dr. Ram Manohar Lohia and Pandit Deen Dayal Upadhayay met. Lohiaji talked about great federation of India-Pakistan and Bangladesh, whereas Deen Dayal Upadhyay talked about ‘Undivided India.’ In Kanpur convention of 1962, when issue of ‘economic integration’ was raised, Lohia was Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 53 the chief guest and he was assisted by Atalji. I am not speaking against ideologies. If you check the records of this very House, then you will find that Dr. Lohia also spoke many times about ‘One Nation, One Flag and One Constitution’. Therefore, we have committed mistakes years ago, saw Kashmir in a different perspective, allowed a separate constitution there and isolated it from the main stream of country. Today is a golden day to correct that historical mistake, for this I specially congratulate our Prime Minister Narendra Modiji and Home Minister Amit Shahji. Bhupenderji has invited Congress members to support the Government in the building of Kashmir and abrogating the article 370. Sir, I also want to say them:
“Hamko unse hai wafa ki umeed, jo nahi jante wafa kya hai, Dil-e nadan tujhe hua kya hai, akhir is dard ki dawa kya hai?”
Sir, one has to believe that they are now longer in power. Politics is a strange thing and the game of politics is extraordinary, same time you are in power, sometime we are in power.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now, Shri Birendra Prasad Baishya.
SHRI BIRENDRA PRASAD BAISHYA (Assam): Sir, I rise to support this Bill on behalf of my party, Asom Gana Parishad. It is my privilege and honour to associate myself with this historic movement of the country. We must congratulate the hon. Prime Minister, the hon. Home Minister for this historic, bold and courageous step. Hon. Home Minister, Sir, the country will always remember you for your bold and historic step. For the last seventy years, Article 370 was in Kashmir. Maximum money was allotted for the development of Jammu and Kashmir. But Kashmir was not developed. The money was spent. But Jammu and Kashmir was not developed. Only a few persons developed personally. From today, I am sure a new journey will begin for Jammu and Kashmir for their development purpose. Like Jammu and Kashmir, Assam and other North-eastern States are also international bordering States. But earlier, there was discrimination. Jammu and Kashmir enjoyed Article 370, but the north-eastern region States and Assam were deprived from this provision. But from today, we will be equal. Equal constitutional rights will be enjoyed by the people of north-eastern region. Equal constitutional rights will be enjoyed by the people of north-east India and also by the people of Assam. Today, we remember Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, the then Home Minister of the country who reunited our country. Today, we must congratulate the hon. Prime Minister, hon. Home Minister for reuniting the country again. The country will always remember you. The country will always remember the hon. Prime Minister, Shri Narendra Modi. With these words, I, on behalf of my party, Asom Gana Parishad and myself, fully support the Bill. 54 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri Sardar Balwinder Singh Bhunder ji.
SARDAR BALWINDER SINGH BHUNDER (Punjab): Mr. Deputy Chairman Sir, Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, 2019 has been brought today. I stand to speak on this on behalf of Shiromani Akali Dal. Sir, I would like to say that we have always stood united for the unity and integrity of this country and will always stand united. Perhaps no one has given that much sacrifices for this as has been given by our people, though I don’t underestimate anyone’s sacrifices. We have suffered the division of 1947. We lost our 10 lakhs people, we left our homes, we chose this country, we accepted this country as our own country, therefore, we sacrificed all we have. Thereafter, whenever the time came or whenever there was a fight on the borders, for this, not only our soldiers but our wives and sisters also came forward and helped by going there and whenever there was a chance, be it the chance of serving food, they helped. Generals like General Arora who got 90,000 prisoners surrendered and Generals like General Harbaks and Air Marshal Arjun Singh always participated in the war from the forefront. ...(Interruptions)... Therefore, we can never think of this that somebody divides this country, we are with this country, but along with this with deep sorrow I would like to say that this party has given so much sacrifices, which gave birth to Martyr Bhagat Singh, which gave birth to Kartar Singh Saraba, which gave birth to Udham Singh Sunam. Incident like Jaliyan wala Bagh took place on this land of Punjab, we gave maximum sacrifices for black water punishments, still injustice has been done to this community even after independence, and we suffered whatever happened in the past. We can never think of this that in our own country, slaughter took place, but that happened, in Delhi and in the whole of the country slaughter took place, 34 years have passed and we are yet to get justice. We never thought of an attack on Harimandir, which is the temple of God, which wants safety of all, Nanak naam chadhti kala, tere bhaane sarbat da bhala, there was an attack on that temple. In this country there was an attack on such a thing for which we have always sacrificed ourselves. Even today we are with the country. When no one spoke in this country at that time Guru Teg Bahadur sacrificed his life against oppression to protect minorities. Guru Govind Singh ji sacrificed his entire family for this country. Had there been noGuru Govind Singh ji, na kahu ab ki, na kahu tab ki, agar na hote Guru Govind Singh, to sunat hoti sabki. This was the slogan at that time. Native sacred thread weighing up to 35 kilos were taken out. Our Gurus sacrificed. Our Gurus sacrificed during British period. Whether there is fight against emergency in the country or any other movement, we have been in favour of the country. We can never think that this is ever damaged. I would also like to say that we represent the minority community. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 55
What is happening with us, all look at this. Injustice is being done in Punjab, I therefore would like from Home Minister that as you are fighting for the unity and integrity of the country we want that our country should be stronger, similarly the fabric of this country which is of multi-culture, multi-languages-multi-religions and our constitution which is secular and federal should also be protected. Assurance should be given that minority need not to worry, no excess is committed to them, we are with minority for this, and we demand this. I don’t want to speak much on this as time is too short. I just want to say this only that whenever there is a crisis in this country we stayed together. For the protection of minorities our party which is the oldest party, a party which is 100 years old in India, we want the Home Minister should give assurance regarding protection of minorities. With this assurance, with these words I stand with the unity and integrity of the country and support this bill and I also want that minorities are always protected.
DR. SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY (Nominated): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, today will be remembered as a great day, for a great step taken for the consolidation of the unity of India, which was lacking. ...(Interruptions)... Therefore, what I found surprising is that the Leader of the Opposition does not seem to know the law. He says that that Article 370 is the one that connects Jammu and Kashmir to India. He quotes Article 370. Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, I will quote what Article 370 says. This is Article 370(1)(c): “The provisions of Article 1 and of this article shall apply in relation to the State of Jammu and Kashmir.” Article 1 says, “THE UNION AND ITS TERRITORY, that is Bharat, shall be a Union of States.” Then it goes on to say, “The States and territories thereof shall be specified in the First Schedule.” If you look at the First Schedule, Jammu and Kashmir is mentioned clearly there. Hence, Article 1 has the feature that shows that once a part of India is part of the Union of India, it, therefore, can’t be separated. That is why, in Berubari, we had such a number of problems when we could not give it away to Bangladesh even though it was a commitment made by us. Therefore, every inch of India, which is part of the Schedule, is inalienable. ...(Interruptions)...
Then, Article 370 further says, “Notwithstanding anything in the foregoing provisions of this Article, the President may, by public notification, declare that this article shall cease to be operative or shall be operative partially. In other words, there is no mention of Parliament. There is no mention of a Constitutional Amendment. It says, “The President, by a notification, can remove Article 370,” which is what is now being done. It further says, “Provided that the recommendation of the Constituent Assembly of the State of Jammu and Kashmir shall be necessary before the President issues such notification.” The Constituent Assembly of the State of 56 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Dr. Subramanian Swamy] Jammu and Kashmir concluded its proceedings in 1956. What did they recommend? The Preamble of Jammu and Kashmir Constitution says, “Jammu and Kashmir shall be an inalienable part of India.” Jammu and Kashmir will be integral part of India. It is there in the Jammu and Kashmir Constitution. There is no mention of Article 370 in the Constitution. So, what appears here? The Congress party leaders are totally ignorant of the law. They are unaware of what actually the law says. What we are proceeding now is on the basis of law. Bringing in the Resolution was an additional recognition that this be informed to Parliament. Hence, on this basis, I say that the Article 370 removal was overdue and Article 370 was a temporary provision. ...(Interruptions)...
Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, Article 370 which prevents the people from outside to come to Jammu and Kashmir died the day 5,00,000 Kashmiri Pandits were driven out. 5,00,000 Kashmiri residents who are called Pandits and Sikhs were driven out of Kashmir, and not a word was said in their favour or any attempt made to ask them to return. How can you have Article 370 in a one-way direction? ...(Interruptions)... It cannot be and, therefore, Article 370 has been violated repeatedly by the parties which were ruling all this time before the President’s Rule. I also say that what remains now to be done is the Resolution passed by Parliament unanimously, that the portions of Kashmir in possession, in name of Azad Kashmir in Pakistan, illegally occupied, will be taken back. This is a Resolution of this House and it was unanimously passed during Narasimha Rao’s period and that is another thing that we need to do. We also need to withdraw the petition filed by Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru in the United Nations Security Council because it was done without the permission of the Cabinet of Jawaharlal Nehru. ...(Interruptions)... Why are they objecting to the question of temporary provision being removed? They are objecting to it because of the fact that there is a vested interest in that. As long as Article 370 is there, other elements will take advantage of it. In fact, certain elements were encouraged recently by the fact that Imran Khan met the President of the United States and the President of the United States mistakenly said that he is willing to mediate. There is nothing to mediate. Article 370 is gone. ...(Interruptions)... There is nothing to mediate except for Mr. Trump to tell Mr. Imran Khan to return the land which they illegally took from India, which is a part of Azad Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)... Return of the territory in the possession of Pakistan is the next agenda item for us, and I hope the decisiveness with which the Prime Minister and the Home Minister have taken the steps, they will take the next step when we are ready to recover the land as per the Resolution of the Parliament. This is what I have to say. Thank you very much. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 57
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shrimati Ambika Soni. Not present. Shri Sasmit Patra.
SHRI SASMIT PATRA (Odisha): Hon. Deputy Chairman, Sir, I rise to speak on the Statutory Resolution relating to Article 370 moved by hon. Home Minister, the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, 2019 and the Jammu and Kashmir Reservation (Second Amendment) Bill, 2019. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, I hoped I had a better thing today to speak about, the fact being that today I complete one month as a Member of this House. I hope, that today, having completed one month as a Member of this House, it would have been a joyous occasion, but, Sir, I feel pained. I feel pained because today I saw the Constitution of my country being ripped apart in front of my eyes. I feel sad that in this House, as a one-month old Member, I saw what happened in front of my eyes. It has shocked me and I am sure it has shocked the nation as well that if in Rajya Sabha the Constitution of the land is being torn apart, if this is the sentiment, then it is good that Article 370 is being scrapped. It is good that today we are talking about Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation. ...(Interruptions)... It is good that this action is being taken by the Government. On behalf of Biju Janata Dal and my hon. Leader, Naveen Patnaikji, I support the J&K Reorganisation and I support the scrapping of Article 370 and I also support the J&K Reservation (Second Amendment) Bill, 2019.
Sir, firstly on Article 370, the question today before us is, with Article 370 was Kashmir a part of Bharat Ma? No, it wasn’t, Sir. It was always away from us and Article 370 kept it away from us. Today with Article 370 going, it is truly a part of Bharat Ma and I thank the hon. Government for this. ...(Interruptions)... In terms of Reorganisation of J&K, Ladakh is in a strategic position within the country. The Kargil war reminded us one thing that we must protect Ladakh in all respects. ...(Interruptions)... And, today, with this Reorganisation Bill and Ladakh being made as UT without Legislature, it is in the right direction which will ensure that national security is protected. ...(Interruptions)...
Sir, J&K as UT is also extremely important, because we are seeing, over the past decades, how it is being used for political opportunism. ...(Interruptions)... We hope that the Government, through the Reorganisation Bill, will also ensure that law and order prevails appropriately.
I would like to say something about the J & K Reservation Bill. Today, since Article 370 is being scrapped and this entire episode is brought about with J&K Reorganisation Bill, the J & K Reservation Bill will completely become void. Today, I am confident that the House will ensure both Article 370, the Statutory Resolution 58 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Sasmit Patra] as well as the J&K Reorganisation Bill will be passed and, therefore, there is no need to actually pass the J&K Reservation Bill today.
Finally, I would like to end with a few lines from the movie ‘Haider’ that I saw some time back. It was a movie on Kashmir. These few lines epitomize Kashmir. Today, it is about emotions; today it is not about clause-by-clause for me. I would like to recite it for you.
Dariya bhi main, darakht bhi main Jhelam bhi main, Chinar bhi main. Dair bhi hoon, Haram bhi hoon Shia bhi hoon, Sunni bhi hoon. Main hoon Pandit Main tha, Main hoon aur Main hi rahunga
This is Kashmir, this is Kashmiriyat, this is the thinking of Kashmiriyat. Sir, today when we talk about this, Kashmir was, Kashmir is, Kashmir was our integral part will always remain. To do that, we must strengthen the Government. We must pass this resolution. We must pass this Bill and ensure that our Kashmiri brothers and sisters are together with us. And, at the same point of time, I urge the Government to do one thing. ...(Interruptions)... Bring out Kashmiri Pandit brothers and sisters back to their homeland. I am sure that the Government will do that. They have suffered for decades. People have forgotten them. The Governments-after-Governments forgot them. Let us not forget them anymore. Kashmir Pandits must come back to the Valley and the Government must ensure that.
Thank you so much for giving this time.
SHRI T. K. RANGARAJAN (Tamil Nadu): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, today is the black day. The Indian Constitution has been * by the BJP Government. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI RAVI SHANKAR PRASAD: Sir, I object to the word used by hon. Member. This is unparliamentary. It has to be expunged.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I will be examined and, accordingly, a decision will be taken as per rules.
SHRI T. K. RANGARAJAN: Sir, you did not consult the people of Jammu and Kashmir or Ladakh. You dissolved the Assembly. You don’t want to hold any election.
* Expunged as ordered by the Chair. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 59
And, you have taken 35,000 Armed personnel there. You are creating another Palestine! Tomorrow you can do anything with any State. Tomorrow you can bifurcate any State. You can dismiss the State, dissolve the Assembly, take everything into your possession and bring any Bill. So, the Constitution itself is in danger. Our party, CPI(M), warned the people before election that RSS-BJP will destroy the Indian Constitution. They will destroy the Indian unity. So, my party is very sympathetic towards the Kashmir people; we are sympathetic towards Jammu and Kashmir people. Without their knowledge...(Interruptions)...Don’t worry about it. I would like to remind, on behalf of the entire opposition, one thing. There are some opposition parties which supported it. They will feel it later. They will also realize it tomorrow. For example, Puducherry wanted a separate State. Will you give a separate State, or, will you bring a Bill and merge it with Tamil Nadu? Morarji tried once, but he failed. So, this is a dangerous thing. The life of the Kashmiri people, the future of the people of Jammu and Kashmir, the future of the people of Ladakh is in danger. The Constitution is in danger. You are Hindus and you are cancelling the Amarnath Yatral What a great believers! You are not believers. In the name of Hindus, you are destroying the Hinduism; you are destroying everything. We fully oppose this Bill. We stand with the people of Jammu and Kashmir. And, that is our party’s line. And, I oppose this Bill.
DR. NARENDRA JADHAV (Nominated): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir. I rise to strongly support this Statutory Resolution and the Bill.
At the very outset, I urge upon the Chair that the strongest possible punishment should be accorded to the Members who tore the sacred Constitution of India.
Sir, I heartily commend the hon. Prime Minister and the hon. Home Minister for their political will to bring forward this historic Bill. Something that could not be done for seventy long years, by successive Governments, has finally been done; finally been achieved by the hon. Prime Minister and the hon. Home Minister. I strongly support the Bill because it is perfectly consistent with the Constitution of India; it is also consistent with the spirit of debates in the Constituent Assembly. It must be remembered that Article 370 was placed by Dr. B.R. Ambedkar in the Constitution as a provisional one. The option of deleting the provision was implicit. But, it took us seventy long years to do it. But, better late than never. And, that is this historic Bill is very commendable.
This historic move is highly commendable for two reasons. First, this Bill finally establishes equality among all Indian citizens that is enshrined in our Constitution. Secondly, this historic move also extends reservation to all marginalized strata of 60 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Dr. Narendra Jadhav] 2.00 p.m. society in Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh. This great move will pave the way for much needed economic growth of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh.
In 2012, as a member of the then Planning Commission, I was entrusted with the responsibility of preparing a development plan for Ladakh. I travelled extensively in Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh. And, I was deeply moved by the poverty prevailing there and was very seriously angered by the neglect of Ladakh region. Reportedly, most of the financial allocations, which were recommended in my report and accepted by the then Central Government, were usurped by the Government for Kashmir Valley and not left for Ladakh for whom it was intended to be. With the reorganisation of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh, especially with Ladakh emerging as a separate Union Territory, the opportunities for economic growth and human development would be opened up for the poor people of Ladakh.
Sir, I wholeheartedly support this Bill and recommend its passage. Thank you very much.
PROF. MANOJ KUMAR JHA: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Chairman Sir, my mother was watching television just now, she sent me a message on Whatsapp to remain cool while speaking. I will try to be cool. ...(Interruptions)...
Mr. Deputy Chairman: Please let him speak. ...(Interruptions)... I would request treasury benches to let him speak. ...(Interruptions)... Hon’ble Manoj Jha ji, you address the Chair, only what you speak will go on record.
PROF. MANOJ KUMAR Jha: Sir, I feel like looking over there also. Sir, so far as the matter of going that side is concerned, it is not possible in this life. Whatever has happened with regard to Article 370, I can never support that. I know my history. I know the saga of making of Article 370. I know the history of accession of Kashmir to India. I am not short sighted. As I am not short sighted, so I was regularly speaking in this House as to what we needed. In place of Kashmir, we want the land of Kashmir or the people of Kashmir.
Sir, I am sorry to say today, as you have majority, I have been warning that whenever there is majority, we have good as well as bad thoughts, but you take good thoughts, leave the bad ones.
Honourable Deputy Chairman Sir, Mr. Law Minister is sitting just in front of me. Sir, in 1966, Mr. Jai Prakash Narayan ji wrote a letter to Indira ji, I was reading that letter. You can assume that letter today as my letter to Mr. Home Minister and Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 61 to Mr. Prime Minister. I am reading the letter of J. P. “The Kashmir question has plagued this country for very many years. It has cost us a great deal materially and spiritually. We profess democracy but rule by force in Kashmir...
There are J.P.’s words not mine. Now do not crucity him now. “Unless we have auto- suggested ourselves into believing that the general elections.... had expressed the will of the people”.
Sir, now I am reading the next paragraph, as it is a lengthy letter. “That problem exists not because Pakistan wants to grab Kashmir, but because there is deep and widespread political discontent among the people. The people of India might be kept in the dark about the true state of affairs in the Valley, but every chancellery in New Delhi knows the truth...”
Sir, when PDP and BJP Government came to power, it was like murder of political communication. I think this should also be the part of this story that political communication was killed and because of this 30 year old images came back to the valley.
This will not stop here. Jai Prakash Narayan Ji wrote a letter to Nehru ji in 1956. “May I also take this opportunity of saying a word about Kashmir? Merely to put my views before you, without in the least wanting to criticize or influence, what I have learnt, there is a widespread discontent in the Valley. All men have to live upon this Earth as brothers, irrespective of what national frontiers divide them. World peace is possible upon no other hypothesis.”
Sir, I believe, there are some members that side also who like and follow J.P. Can’t we think with his approach? Our entire approach rests on the fact that this narrative be run. Today this narrative is being run, therefore we are against this. We are against as you are lacking constitutional beliefs. We are against brutal murder of constitutional history.
Sir, if there is any yardstick to measure the love for India you can install here a machine in the dispensary and measure who loves India and how much? We shall have no less love for India than you have.
I will only urge and I am cautioning you, Mr. Deputy Chairman Sir, whether tomorrow I am there in the House or not, but I am sorry to say this to you that we have opened the way of making Kashmir the Philistine. You will agree to what I say after five years. I am very sorry to say that the narrative you are running, you run the narrative, but no narrative in this country is permanent. We have seen many narratives dying. 62 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Prof. Manoj Kumar Jha] I only request you to leave the arrogance, hug the Kashmiris and Kashmir will automatically hug you. I am sad that you have disassociated them. Today. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You speak, please speak up ...(Interruptions)...
PROF. MANOJ KUMAR JHA: I never interrupt. ...(Interruptions)... I need your protection. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Jha ji, you look at Chair and speak. ...(Interruptions)...
PROF. MANOJ KUMAR JHA: Anyway you have a huge majority and the way people are changing sides I am afraid. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You look at Chair and speak. ...(Interruptions)...
PROF. MANOJ KUMAR JHA: Athawale Sahab, this is not possible in this life. Any way Sir, what should I say next? I would say only this. ...(Interruptions)... Friends ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You speak looking at me and conclude.
PROF. MANOJ KUMAR Jha: Sir, I would like say this to you if the day is historic, you should have historic vision. You should listen because history is being recorded today. It is possible that some of us are presented as villain fictitiously. But I say this before you with affirmation that after five years this letter of J.P. would be read and it would be said that there were some such members in the House who had warned the Government. Jai Hind, sir.
SHRI TIRUCHI SIVA (Tamil Nadu): Sir, I stand to oppose this Statutory Resolution and the Bill that has been introduced which is unconstitutional and unwarranted. Sir, what are the powers vested with the Union Government to bring in this Bill and the Statutory Resolution? Why I said it is unconstitutional? Article 370(3) only provides the power to the Government to withdraw; Article 370 could be withdrawn. What does Article 370(3) say? “Notwithstanding anything in the foregoing provisions of this Article, the President may, by public notification, declare that this Article shall cease to be operative or shall be operative only with such exceptions and modifications and from such date as he may specify.” The proviso isvery important. “Provided that the recommendation of the Constituent Assembly of the State referred to in clause (2) shall be necessary before the President issues such a notification.” Sir, the Legislature is not there. It is only the President’s Rule. Ifat all, it has to be done, it is only with the consent of the State Legislature. Moreover, Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 63
Sir, the Supreme Court, the Constitution Bench, in case of Sampat Prakash vs. State of J&K has categorically given the judgement that Article 370 is permanent and it is not temporary. Sir, the architects of the Constitution, the members of the Constituent Assembly were all elected, were all people who were from various quarters, from various areas; and they were all experts. After deep deliberations, this Article 370 was provided giving special status to the people of Kashmir for various other reasons. All these days, they were enjoying. Okay, if at all you take a decision, have you taken the views of the people there? Have you taken the views of the State Legislature which is I the representative of the people? The stakeholders have not yet been consulted. All of a sudden, the Government comes with a Statutory Resolution and a Bill? What we are afraid of is, will it stop with this? Tomorrow, the same powers will be vested with you and you can convert any State into a Union Territory. It may be Tamil Nadu, it may be Bihar, it I may be Bengal, it may be Maharashtra. So, this apprehension should not come because the Article is given a very, very safe protection. This provision should be followed. That is what we are saying. Article 370(3), the proviso, has not been utilised slightly. It is only two months ahead of the election. We could wait till then. If at all you are justifying the decision you have taken, you can wait till then and the State Legislature’s consent could be taken up as per the Constitution. But now because you are imposing the President’s Rule, taking all the powers and doing such a step, I don’t know what the implications will be, what the people of Kashmir will consider about this decision.
Sir, there is another thing on which I would like to say, I have my apprehension again. It may be right or wrong. Now that this 370(3) is withdrawn, 35A has gone, anyone can go there, and it is a paradise on Earth. All the multinational companies would come there. Again, Sir, it would become not ‘ours’. So, that is the people’s feeling there. So, what we say is, if at all you take a decision which you could justify, you should have taken it only with the consent of the State Legislature after it has come into existence. But it has been done when the President’s Rule is there. That is why we say, Sir, what is the urgency? You may justify it. I do not dispute that. If you can convince us or the people of Kashmir, then it is okay, but what was the urgency when the State legislature is not in there? When the elected Government is not there, the President’s Rule empowering them to use a provision of the Constitution is totally unacceptable. Again, I say, this House is the House of Elders, the Council of States. We are afraid. Can you give us an assurance that this would not be repeated with any other State? The same could happen again because you have been bestowed with powers. We oppose this because it is against the Constitution and it has not taken into consideration the views of the stakeholders, the people of Kashmir and the elected State Legislature there. That is why, we are opposing this Bill. 64 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
SHRI HISHEY LACHUNGPA (Sikkim): Mr. Deputy Chairman Sir, I rise to support the Resolution and the Bill regarding Jammu-Kashmir which has been brought in the House. This step will surely strengthen the unity and integrity of the country and will help to run the country in right and peaceful way, but this step of Government should not be compared with Article 371(f), because Sikkim itself was merged with India by way of a referendum. Sikkim is a sensitive and border State where peace and progress is prevalent. Our State celebrates all national festivals like 26th January and 15th August and is connected with the cultural traditions of the country. All festivals are celebrated in our State with the same zeal and enthusiasm as they are celebrated in other States. Our colleague of Bodoland, Shri Biswajit Daimary has demanded creation of Bodoland U.T. I support this demand. With these words I once again support the Resolution and the Bills brought in this House regarding Jammu-Kashmir. Thank you.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri K. Ravindra Kumar; not present. Shri Binoy Viswam; not present. Shri Shamsher Singh Manhas.
SHRI SHAMSHER SINGH MANHAS (Jammu and Kashmir): Mr. Deputy Chairman Sir, I think today is a day of great pride for me. The Resolution which has been brought in the House, we have always been saying- “Modi he to mumkin he” This resolution has been brought by the hon’ble Minister of Home Affairs in this House, he discussed it in length, I would like to say here that not from today rather since the country got freedom, since 1947 till date, we have been against Article 370. The way Jammu-Kashmir was shown separately by way Article 370, we thought how to abrogate it? The effort has been made today. Our respected G.L. Dogra ji gave a slogan that two legislations, two flags and two Heads of States will not work here. There used to be a separate Prime Minister for the State and a separate Prime Minister for the country. The Constitution of the State was separate and the Constitution of the country was separate, the flag of the State was different and the flag of the country was different. These three things were different which created confusion whether Jammu-Kashmir was with India or not. Why this happened, what were the reasons behind this? First of all, till 26th October, 1947 the King of the States of Jammu and Kashmir wanted the accession of Jammu-Kashmir to India but he was not allowed to do so. Had Sardar Patel been given power at that time only this Jammu-Kashmir could have been part of India as 582 estates were merged with India, but he was not allowed to do so. The then Prime Minister said no to this and said that he would himself protect this State, he would always strive to save this. He had friendship with a man named Sheikh Abdullah. He wanted that everything in Jammu-Kashmir be created by Sheikh Abdullah. It was because of this he was Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 65 involved. Had he not been involved and if Sardar Patel were there, the discussion that is going on here today, the kind of environment which was tried to be created, was not needed. But the reason for what has happened is that it was never thought about Jammu-Kashmir as it was needed. Till date so many movements took place there since independence and so many workers sacrificed their lives. I don’t talk about any single martyrdom. Many workers would have sacrificed protesting Article 370 at that time. As a great leader, Pandit Prem Nath Dogra after united the people there and started a movement and after the movement he used to keep constitution of India in one hand and the tricolour in other hand and, therefore, he was put behind bars for this. Even today in Jammu and Kashmir and I can prove it. 18 persons were gunned down in Jammu and Kashmir in broad daylight, there is a ‘Major’ in memory of their martyrdom. Why that was built, what are its reasons? If somebody holds the constitution of India, the tricolour of India, should he be gunned down? Who was responsible for this? There was such a person responsible for this as we saw the scene today. A movement was going on here, the discussions were going on. The way an effort was made to tear out the constitution, the person who was tearing it was tearing it, but who gave it to him. After giving the constitution a struggle was fought but who was there to save it? Whether such person should be punished or not? The same environment prevailed there. You all know this. Our ancestors at that time could not hold the constitution, could not touch the tricolour and the way a Government was to be formed with the help of a person in Jammu-Kashmir in 1953, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru tried to put the same person behind the bars. The reason behind this was that he did not want to stay with India and wanted to divide India. Such was the environment. Many elections took place in such environment. We could not boycott the elections. We went to fill up the nomination papers but our papers were rejected. First time it was happened that all our nomination papers that we filled were rejected. Such was the environment there. I, therefore, would like to say that the way Jammu Kashmir was always seen, there has been discrimination against Jammu, there has been discriminations against Ladakh, especially Kashmir was not promoted and an effort was made to vitiate the environment in Kashmir. We know the kind of efforts that were made by lakhs of our youths, soldiers and the civilians over there to save the same because we are the sufferers. Incidents take place there every day. Had Article 370 not been there, perhaps there would have been no terrorism there. Borders would have been completely ours, Pakistan could do nothing. Whether it is the war of 1965 or the war of 1962 with China we ...... our land. In 1965, ninety thousand soldiers were arrested and then we tried to give the land. Why did we do so? If we arrested 90 thousand soldiers, in lieu of freeing them why could we not take back our land? We could not take back our land and 66 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Shamsher Singh Manhas] such environment kept on creating. There was a fear in the mind of the people of Jammu and Kashmir as to who would be the person, who would come forward to save them, who would do justice to them, who would not let injustice to happen to them? We have such ideas otherwise the kind of environment that was there, effort was being made to tackle the situation further, we conducted many movements for this. I spoke about just one movement under the leadership of Pandit Prem Nath Dogra, we led several movements there. People belonging to BJP and Bharatiya Jansangh have been sitting on the movement since then till date. But for the last five years since their Government came to power, since then we are a bit relaxed because there is no need of movement now. We have faith in our Government, and in our leadership that they will not let injustice to happen to us, otherwise there were many Governments. I would like to say that those who have been in Government for 67 years, what has those Governments done, what is given by those Governments, what was to be done by those Governments? Let me raise a matter of development. Can there be any factory or a big industry or a large factory in Jammu-Kashmir due to the presence of Article 370? Today more than 9 lakh youths of our State are unemployed, they want employment. As an effort is being made to set up factories from one place to another place in the entire country, if one such factory could be set up over there also, we also want this; this could have given the source of livelihood to our youths too. We are finding it very difficult to find employment. Our youths are suffering every day. Those who are talented, intelligent, know English, urdu and other languages very well but of no use. Despite all this no effort was made to do something. The needs of our youths were not catered. More than 5 lakh refugees were evacuated from Kashmir. Why were pundits evacuated from there? It was said that there is terrorism, extremism there. I, therefore, say that had Article 370 not been there, there would have been no terrorism. Similarly, those refugees who have come from Pakistan, more than 1.5 lakh of them are such who are living in Jammu. They did not get the citizenship; they have no place to live in, their children can’t go to the schools. They can’t have jobs, employment also is not easy for them, and they even find it difficult to get education. They can’t get education as they are not state subject. The citizenship that they should have got, they did not get it because of this Article 370. Having this Resolution been passed today, the youths especially those 1.5 lakh people would be very happy. There is atmosphere of happiness now in Jammu that someone has tried to think for us. Had this not been thought, we would live in fear, we would keep agitating, we would hardly get something from such movements. I, therefore, thank Mr. Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi ji and the Minister of Home Minister Shri Amit Shah ji that Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 67 they considered us worthy to fall in the category of India. I have to say this much only. Long live Mother India.
SHRI KANAKAMEDALA RAVINDRA KUMAR (Andhra Pradesh): Thank you, Deputy Chairman, Sir for giving me this opportunity to participate in this debate on two Bills, that is, the Jammu and Kashmir Reservation (Second Amendment) Bill, 2019 and the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, 2019. At the outset, I have to recall, over the last six decades, what has been going on in Jammu and Kashmir. Article 370 was inserted as transitional provision in 1949. Since 1949, what has been going on in Jammu and Kashmir! Thousands of people have been killed, terrorists activities have increased and developmental activities have been curtailed. Now, by virtue of this Article 370 and its implementation, the people living in areas along the international border in Jammu and Kashmir did not get the benefits in respect of recruitment, education etc. By virtue of this Reservation Bill, they may now get the benefits. The people of Ladakh region, which was a part of Jammu and Kashmir, has this long-pending demand to treat this region as a Union Territory. By virtue of this Bill, that can also be fulfilled. The people of Jammu and Kashmir had been living with an insecure feeling. There was no national security for the last seven decades. The Governments, who were in power, irrespective of whoever was in power, could not provide sufficient security to them for leading peaceful living. However, Imust congratulate the Government and the hon. Home Minister at this juncture. After the introduction of this Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, at least, this time, with the strong implementation of this Bill, the people of Jammu and Kashmir must be feeling relieved from all these tensions and they can live happily now. Now, Jammu and Kashmir has now become a part of our country. Being a lawyer I used to come across each and every Bill passed by the Parliament, where we used to write that it is implemented and applied everywhere except Jammu and Kashmir. Now, Jammu and Kashmir has also become a part of our nation. In view of the national security and national integrity, and for the purpose of equal development with other States as provided under the Constitution of India, now, the people of Jammu and Kashmir will also get the same benefits of development, reservation, employment and in all walks of life.
I think the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, 2019, should be effectively implemented forthwith. The implementation of this Bill will remove the difficulties faced by the people of Jammu and Kashmir. Now, we can provide them equal opportunities along with the people of other parts of the country. Apart from that, even day-to-day activities also cause a lot of feelings of insecurity in their minds. Every day, they have to participate in some activities in respect of their functioning 68 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Kanakamedala Ravindra Kumar] and everything. In view of the Statement of Objects and Reasons mentioned in the Bill, now a message can be sent to the whole nation, and also to the people of Jammu and Kashmir, that the whole nation is one and Jammu and Kashmir is part of the nation. The desires and dreams of the Kashmiris had not been fulfilled for the last six decades. Now, I hope and wish that this Bill will bring happiness in their lives. On behalf of the Telugu Desam Party, under the leadership of Shri Chandrababu Naidu, we support this Bill and we hope that it will work out to be beneficial for the people of Jammu and Kashmir. I appreciate and once again congratulate the hon. Home Minister for bringing this Bill. Thank you, Sir.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: LoP, Hon. Ghulam Nabi Azad ji. I would request the members who are sitting in the Well to please go back to their respective seats and listen to the views of the hon. LoP. ...(Interruptions)... The members who are sitting in the Well are requested to go back to their respective seats and hear the views of the LoP. I request them all to go to their respective seats.
SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Hon. Deputy Chairman Sir, the Bill on which I had to speak today and the Bill which was listed for discussion in the Rajya Sabha today was – Reservation for Economically Weaker Sections. This Bill was brought in this House some months back for the sake up of the whole country and today it came up in this House for discussion. Sir, I had certain views in my mind to be expressed while discussing this Bill today, but now it makes no sense to discuss this Bill. I think, Jammu and Kashmir had a history dates back to the year 1947 when I was not even born but after my birth I had never imagined in my political career that the State which is like the head of our India will be beheaded one day. I came here with the thought that regarding the reservation for Economically Weaker Sections, I would say that this Bill which has been brought after 70 years, could have waited for another 4 months so that the people’s representatives in the legislative assembly who belong to different strata of society like upper caste, backward caste, different minorities there like the Hindu minority, Sikh minority, Christian minority and Jain minority, people of Ladakh and people of Jammu and Kashmir could have discussed this matter at greater length. I came to support this move as I believe that poor people do not belong to a particular religion or caste only. I have seen this in my State itself. I have seen poor people belonging to the Rajput, an upper caste or who are Brahmins. I have seen those brothers and sisters who are engaged in business and are poor. I have also seen Muslims, Dalits and people belonging to backward or forward castes who are poor. It is a good step to not consider caste as the yardstick, which we always do. Atleast, a provision Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 69 has been made for the poor people. Poverty is both a religion and a caste in itself and it encompasses all religions and castes. It is good provision. What I wanted to suggest is that in spite of taking up this discussion here, it should have been taken up in the legislative assembly there in two, three of four months after the elections take place there. It could not be implemented in the last 70 years so heavens will not fall if it takes 6 more months to be implemented. But for the last one week the entire Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh was distressed and people were at a loss to understand the situation. I slept at 2.30 am. I was getting phone calls from Jammu and Kashmir and also from across the country. Different rumours were doing the rounds. Some people were saying that war has erupted, some said that the state is going to be bifurcated while the others said it’s going to be divided into three parts. Some people were saying that delimitation is going to happen, someone said that Article 370 will be abrogated. There were also those who were saying that Article 370 will continue to exist, only 35 (A) will be abrogated. Not only the people of Kashmir valley were worried and making phone calls, but the same was true about the people of Ladakh and Jammu. When I talk about Jammu, I refer to region ranging from Rajouri Poonch to Jammu, from Kathua and Samba, from Udhampur to Ramban, Banihal and Kishtwar. I don’t talk about Jammu city, Jammu is not only limited to the Jammu city but it has 10 districts and people belonging to all religions live there. In these 10 districts of Jammu, there is the population of Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Jains and Sikhs. Perhaps it might not be a matter of concern for a particular ideology but it is a matter of concern for all those whom I mentioned. But today what happened in the House was akin to the explosion of an atom bomb all of a sudden. When the Hon’ble Minister of Home Affairs came to the House, a kind of explosion took place. Many of the apprehensions were being expressed last week. Paramilitary forces were being sent from here to Jammu and Kashmir and ADGP, JKP had asked all the SPs if they had all the required material, if they did not have, it would be supplemented within 24 hours. Written advisory was being issued to the hospitals to not send any doctors on leave. I did not get any information about Leh but as regards Kargil Hill Council, I got a copy of the order of Deputy Commissioner, Kargil which prohibited all the officers upto the lower level from proceeding on leave. Since this 27th and a written advisory of Home Ministry said that all the pilgrims who had left for this Amarnath Yatra should start coming back and the tourists also should return. But for more than 500-600 students from across the country studying in the Central University, NITs in the Kashmir valley, nothing was mentioned about them in that advisory. For those students buses were made available on Saturday morning and they were being evacuated. Nothing was mentioned in the advisory about the lakhs of labourers from 70 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad] across the country who go there in the summers to work. There are some labourers, some carpenters, some masons and some contractors who go there to build roads and buildings. They were also being sent through local administration by word of mouth. So since last week there was an atmosphere of fear, scare and terror in Jammu and Kashmir, particularly in the Kashmir valley and in some districts of Jammu as to what will happen and when it will happen? I mentioned some of the apprehensions of people that something might happen but never in Jammu and Kashmir or India or world... because Jammu and Kashmir has always been a matter of discussion in the world as well as in the country right from 1947. I don’t think there would be anyone in any corner of the world who would have thought that something like this would ever happen. No matter howsoever intelligent he or she might be. There are many experts in Kashmir, but there may be higher number of experts in other countries than in India and perhaps none of them would have ever guessed that out of these four-five things, the Home Minister would read out not only one butall four in one order and he would bring them in the House and have them discussed and then passed the same.
Hon’ble Chairman Sir, this Bill runs into 57 pages. Here, we also get a one- page Bill and we argue here saying that we didn’t get the opportunity to move amendments. As per our Parliament rules, the Bill should reach us two days prior to being introduced, so that we can read it and give amendments. There are Bills which are of general nature but they seek to erase one State from the map of India. I am talking about the States. We had 29 States - now you are bringing the number down to 28 so one State is eliminated. Can you say this, ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Yadav, let me speak. I am not abusing. I am telling the truth. Are there 29 States in your Bill? If not, then one State has been eliminated. You tell me, please stand up, calculate and tell me whether after the passage of this Bill today, we will have 29 States. So, one State is removed, it has been erased from the map of India. ...(Interruptions)... What are you talking about? ...(Interruptions)... Please, try to understand.
So, Sir, which will be the State that would be erased that State is not only the head and the crown of the country, it shares borders with China, Pakistan and the POK. When China attacked us, we had to fight a war against it, when we fought 3-4 wars with Pakistan, our Army protected our borders. And the people as well as the mainstream political parties of Jammu and Kashmir always stood by Army’s side to fight Pakistan and China. We have our sources there – I have been theChief Minister of that State and I can tell you that in our border States, particularly this one which shares its border with two countries – it’s very important to have the Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 71 support of the local people. Until and unless those people give you information, and tell you about the hideouts, you will not be able to achieve any success, no matter you keep fighting for years together. You can see what is happening in Afghanistan, because they don’t get the crucial information, but here we have been successful in all the battles. Why? Because, our people who were nationalist and who wanted to live in India and considered India as their own country, always provided information to our security forces, be it Army, Army intelligence, IB or RAW. And the maximum information would come from the people of Kashmir as they were actually aware of the geography and people of the region. Whatever achievements we have made there so far, I would like to give its credit to the local Kashmiri people who have helped the forces – the armed forces, paramilitary forces and the security forces – with full conviction, as Maharaja Hari Singh did the accord and acceded to India. He did not choose Pakistan. The people of Kashmir did not consider Pakistan as their country despite its having the same religion. They consider India as their own country, they followed the secularism being practiced in India. They opted for living with Hindu brethren in India rather than Muslims in Pakistan that was the trust. Today you have betrayed them. The trust with which the people of that time came to you – We were born in free India, we have full trust but I am talking about the people, who are still alive. They had a trust and they stayed here – they trusted Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru and Sardar Patel that they would protect them. They would not ruin their culture; they would not eliminate their history, they would abolish, their principles and they would not hurt their emotions. I would like to felicitate Motiram Baigra, Afzal Baig, Maharaja Hari Singh and then Dr. Karan Singh as well. From those days till today whenever the attempts were made to separate Kashmir, the people of Kashmir fought them bravely. The mainstream political parties have been decimated there. Hundreds of women have become widows because many people have been killed by militants while others lost their lives fighting with them. Our Army personnel have been killed, police and CRPF personnel have also been killed. After so many of sacrifices, today when the entire Jammu and Kashmir region had integrated into the mainstream, when the residents of this region were getting married with people belonging to the rest of the country, when inter-religion marriages were taking place, when the children of the country were studying in the medical colleges, engineering colleges and other institutes of technical education and when so much of integration took place in the last 20-30 years, you have attempted to disintegrate this region. Integration is not achieved by making laws, it is achieved by heart. Integration is not achieved as to how many legislation have been enacted by us. When you win hearts, there is no need to formulate laws. No matter how many Constitutional Amendments you bring in, you will not be able to keep the people 72 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad] united unless you win their hearts. I am not talking about a Muslim. I am talking about Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians and Buddhists. I do not represent a particular sect or religion from Jammu and Kashmir, for me all are one. All those people belong to Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh. You have joked with the people of Jammu and Kashmir. Since 1947, Maharaja Hari Singh, after 1947 the Prime Minister of Jammu and Kashmir and Sadar-i-Riyasat means, the President of Jammu and Kashmir. Sadar-i-Riyasat is the Urdu equivalent of President. How many Prime Ministers have been there? Four Sheikh Abdullah was Prime Minister for 5-6 years, succeeding him, Bakshi Ghulam Mohammad was Prime Minister for 14-15 years, then Khwaja Shams-ud-Din and then the, fourth Prime Minister was Ghulam Mohammad Sadiq and during his tenure, he was both the Prime Minister and the Chief Minister. We changed this system. The post of President was replaced by the post of Governor and the post of Prime Minister was replaced by the post of Chief Minister. So it started from the Maharaja, then changed to Prime Minister and President and you relegated it to Lieutenant Governor. This is a matter of shame that by installing of Lieutenant Governor, you have made Jammu and Kashmir a non-entity, so that you have the power of appointing even a peon or a clerk from here only. We can see what is happening, as for the last four years the Chief Minister of Puducherry complains everyday that the Lieutenant Governor is not letting him work. For every single thing, even to breathe or drink water, he needs to seek permission from the Lieutenant Governor. You have brought this law for the Jammu and Kashmir. Jammu and Kashmir was known world over for its history, its beauty, its culture and its tourism and you are going to make it a Union Territory. I would like to ask my brothers from Jammu to imagine that they are living in a UT and not in Jammu and Kashmir anymore. This has nothing to do with Hindus or Muslims. I am also from Jammu ...(Interruptions)... you try to make Gujarat a Union Territory. ...(Interruptions)... Bring this Bill today only, let me see. It is very easy to say ...(Interruptions)... It is very easy to say ...(Interruptions)... Today the people of the concerned State are protesting. Try and bring the same Bill regarding your State and then see what happens. It is easy to say such things but don’t take this politics so lightly. You should know that you are changing the history of India. Don’t be so power drunk that you don’t even realize as to what you are doing. You have erased and destroyed the history of a State. You have converted it from a State to a Union Territory. You only know the geography of Jammu and Kashmir. Do you also know its history? Do you know that there are two districts in Ladakh-Leh and Kargil. Do you know that the population of Shia Muslims is 52 per cent and the population of Buddists is 48 per cent in Ladakh? In this 52 per cent, there is 2-4 per cent Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 73 population of some other religions as well, in Buddist population there is about 2 per cent other population also. There is overwhelming majority amongst Buddists. The history that you read twenty years ago is changed now. It is no more called a Buddist State, population has grown tremendously after that. Now the situation has reversed. Ladakh is now a muslim majority State. Does any of you know that for last thirty years our Buddist brothers from Leh have been wanting it to be declared a Union Territory and the people from Kargil wanted to leave Ladakh and become a part of Kashmir province? Kargil people want this. Listen, you don’t read the law, history... you read this, I am still alive. In 1991, I was a Union Minister. For months the Hill Council at Leh was on strike and there was Anti Hill Council in the Kargil. On behalf of Government of India, I went there for negotiation. Your MP was the Chairman and leader of my party Legislative Party was the General Secretary. There was a point by you to dissolve. I had the first meeting with their forum and after a number of meetings, we reached this agreement with them that they will not be given the UT but they will get the Hill Council. But the people of Kargil were demanding and they are still demanding not to stay with Ladakh. We can not leave Ladakh but we want to stay in Kargil. You gave Ladakh the status of a province just now, you should have taken a little bit of time to ensure its capital only in Leh. Out of compulsion you had to make both Leh and Kargil its capital. You had to do this only because the people of Kargil demand to be covered under Kashmir province. Do you know that this is a problem in one UT? Who will you appoint Chief Minister now? Ladakh was one of the most peaceful region of Jammu and Kashmir and you have created a new rift between the Buddists and Shiya Muslims there. Now you have made Jammu and Kashmir a UT and a Lieutenant Governor will be its head. Leave us aside, from Sheikh Abdullah to Mr. Saadik, such intelligent people have been the Chief Minister of this State. They are struggling with the politics of this region, but you will appoint an IAS Officer, a Joint Secretary or a person from your party as the Lieutenant Governor of this region and he or she will solve the problems of Jammu and Kashmir. You are very intelligent. You don’t only rule India but the whole world but such a small fact you could not understand that now Jammu and Kashmir will be headed by a Lieutenant Governor. So I am sorry to say, I regret your way of thinking. You attempt to make a new India, so will you dismantle the old India, will you and destroy it? You will break and make and in this process you will create a new India. So, to garner votes please don’t play with the history, unity, integrity and culture of India. Enough is enough. The day when this law is passed, will be a blot on the history of the country. In the history of India, in the history of this new India, this day will be considered as a blot when you are abrogating article 370 and 35-A from Jammu and Kashmir, when 74 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad] 3.00 p.m. without the consent of the people of this region, you are bifurcating the State and applying delimitation on it. In this manner who are destroying Kashmir. Before 1947 when people from outside India, people from Pakistan came, there would be one slogan “Jis Kashmir ko khoon se seencha, wah Kashmir hamara he”. Today you are trampling upon the sacrifice done by those thousands of sisters, brothers and youth. You have erased that history. The people of India are prudent, their thinking is not only limited till votes, they think in the interest of the country, they think for the upliftment, unity, safety and progress of the country. The Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians of the country will never tolerate this black law brought by you. You might have brought this law on the basis of the majority and power that you have got, but you will not be able to align the people of this region with this law. Thank you very much.
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN: Sir, on some days we need to restate the very obvious and the very basics. But let me start by doing that. We love our motherland. We love our democracy. We love our Parliament. We will do what it takes to fight for the integrity of Parliament. We love the federalism which our founding fathers gave us. In fact, the founding fathers would have thought this out in great detail and would have led us out of colonial rule and through our Independence. But today, we have to start questioning the very basics because today is black Monday. Every Monday, sometimes if it is a bad Monday, it can be a black Monday. But this is a black Monday.
[THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (DR. SATYANARAYAN JATIYA) in the Chair]
This is a dark day, a dark day for parliamentary democracy, a dark day for federalism, a dark day for the Constitution, a dark day for the Rajya Sabha and a dark day for the idea of India. This is not rhetoric. Let me begin by telling you why it is a dark day for the Constitution. Firstly, what happened this morning by tearing off our sacred book was unnecessary. There is no one who can condone that. But, Sir, classroom basics, Article 3 of the Constitution makes it very clear. ‘From a new State by separation of territory from any State, or by uniting two or more States, or parts of States, and it goes on to say...’ Basically, what happened today? Because sometimes, when we read the Constitution also, it is very clear. What happened today? What happened today is that there is President’s Rule in Jammu and Kashmir. So, you bring this Presidential route, and you rewrite the State. This is basically what happened today. I will get to how even Parliament was hoodwinked and made a mockery of. But, basically, this is what has happened. The Constitution Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 75 has been sadly, either forgotten conveniently, or, thrown into the dustbin, and before I proceed, I would like to sincerely appeal through you, Sir, to my colleagues in the parties with the strong regional presence, be they in Odisha, be they in Telangana, be they in Tamil Nadu, be they in Andhra Pradesh, be they in Bihar, or anywhere else. Sir, what this basically means is that apply President’s Rule on a State, then, dissolve the House, then, you bring a Presidential proclamation, then, in the morning, you do this, and I will get to the Parliamentary Part of it, then you pass it. So, Bengal can become four States; Odisha, what is your lucky number? Seven. Okay, make it seven States; or, your worse still, you make it UT. This is the big issue how this morning we have made a complete mockery of the Constitution. I want young India, I want the students in classrooms around India, I want the students in colleges around India, to go home this evening, and read Article 3 of the Constitution. Then, they will know what the BJP has done to you today. And it saddens me that it is not the BJP alone, they have some people with them.
Now, let us come to the mockery of Parliament. Thank you, Sir. At least, now, I can get to make the point which I wanted to make, but, I could not make in the morning of a very simple Rule. The Rule is like this, Sir. And check the timing when this happened because this is important. Today, what we saw was a mockery of Parliament. Let me tell you how. Rule 29 which deals with List of Business,— I am saying this with all the responsibility at my command,— at 11.07 a.m., maybe, 11.06 a.m. or maybe 11.08 a.m., the Home Minister moved a Resolution and the Bills. All the three Bills we are discussing here, the LoP has mentioned about that; that was at 11.07 a.m. I tried to raise this from 11 O’clock to 11.20 in the morning. At 11.07 a.m. that was done, the Revised List of Business reached the Members at 11.18 a.m. What are we doing to this glorious institution? You will first move a Resolution, then, you will give us the Revised List of Business, and then, as Supplementary, which is supposed to come even one minute before. You forget about it two days before. We are supposed to get everything two days before, but, that we have forgotten about it. Now, we have to be ready for some crumbs they throw at us. But, no, Sir, no crumbs. We will fight this; we will fight this everyday in Parliament and outside.
Let us talk about federalism, Sir. Don’t believe what Trinamool Congress says or any other party says. Believe what Dr. Ambedkar said, and Dr. Ambedkar had said more than once, that the heart of our Constitution is federal, and only in times of extremity, do we look at it through the lens of unitary. Sir, it is very clearly mentioned in the Constitution. ‘India, that is Bharat, is a Union of States.’ Now, I will be told, Sir, how else could we have done this? This had to be done at the 76 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Derek O’brien] stealth of night! The Parliamentary Affairs Minister was sending SMSs to leaders of parties last night, reconfirming the List of Business today. I am not saying he can’t do that. But, don’t play these games. This is Parliament. Someone calls it dirty game. I don’t call it even dirty game, this is cheap stuff. You had to make this big decision. You subverted the Constitution. You have applied all kinds of pressure here and there; everyday one Member will go and join you. You decide for big issues like this. Could you have called an all-party meeting? Could you have done something? We are all for national interest. First is the national interest and then is the State interest. So, don’t lecture here on this. Otherwise, I will give you the history of 1947 and then you people will not like that. I don’t want to go into that because the time is very limited. State issues, federal issues, and national issues. When these things happen and if you are in Parliament, beyond the tamed television channels and the tamed media owners, I also have to see what is happening on the social media today morning. It is being called by the right wing— and this is all over— ‘the final solution’. Sir, the final solution! What does that mean? Thatmeans 1942. This was the Nazi plan for the genocide; the code named to murder the Jews was called ‘the final solution’. What are we witnessing today on August 5th, 2019? ...(Interruptions)... What are we seeing? ...(Interruptions)...
Sir, I want to take you back to Parliament on January 3rd, this year. The then Home Minister, Rajnath Singhji, assured Rajya Sabha, ‘All is well. Being on the elections to Parliament, we are waiting for the EC’. June 29th, not very long ago, the present Home Minister, also said in Parliament. Sir, there is also a very important date here. On March 10th, the Parliamentary elections got announced. On March 11th, the EC appointed three observers for Jammu and Kashmir. Please tell me what those three EC observers said. On April 15th, what did they say? ‘The observers reported to EC that the situation is conducive to hold elections immediately after the Lok Sabha polls.’ No political party said this. The observers said this. I know what is predictable now! In the answer, we will get, ‘EC? EC We have nothing to do with that…’ But we all know, Sir. We all know what is happening.
Sir, I am also appealing to my other friends. I mentioned the parties. I am also, through you, appealing to the three friends from the Aam Aadmi Party. They have dealt with the Lt. Governor for a long while. For God’s sake, don’t get into another Lt. Governor. Please oppose this legislation.
Sir, I will conclude by paraphrasing three-four sentences which pretty much summarise today beyond the legality, beyond the mockery of our Parliamentary institution. I don’t know whether it is anger or disappointment or all rolled into Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 77 one. But this is the truth. That is why, the Trinamool Congress stands here. It is a paraphrase:
First, they came for the dalit’ and I said, ‘I am not a dalit. So, I didn’t stand up. Then, they came for the oppressed. And I said, ‘I am not an oppressed.’ So I didn’t stand up. Today, they came for the Kashmiris. And I said, ‘Oh! I am not a Kashmiri.’ So, I will not stand up!
No, Sir, we will stand up because then, when they come for me, there will be no one to stand up. Thank you, Sir.
THE VICE CHAIRMAN (Dr. SATYANARAYAN JATIYA): Shri Sushil Kumar Gupta. You have got 3 minutes to speak. It’s a little less but please go ahead.
SHRI SUSHIL KUMAR GUPTA (NCT of Delhi): Thank you Mr. Vice Chairman Sir. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, my microphone is not on. ...(Interruptions)... Thank you Mr. Vice Chairman Sir for giving me time to speak. Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh are integral parts of India. Abrogation of Article 370 is being done in national interest. Shri Arvind Kejriwal and the Aam Aadmi Party have always been in the forefront to ensure national interest. We have always opposed separatism and terrorism. Hence, today the Aam Aadmi Party supports the Bill moved in the House. ...(Interruptions)... Parliament of India is the temple of the largest democracy of the world. We condemn such people who try to tamper with the sacred Constitution of the country or to tear it in this temple. Our Constitution is such a book that gives the right to the poorest of the poor of this country to head the apex institutions. We hope that now peace will be restored in Jammu and Kashmir and Government will carry out development activities in this region. We always believe in the concept of absolute statehood. I would like to tell my friend Shri Derek O’Brien that the Aam Aadmi Party can tolerate the excesses of the Lieutenant Governor but to protect the integrity of the country and to eliminate terrorism, we will keep supporting such Bills. I am fully confident that now peace will be restored in Kashmir and development activities will be carried on. We want that the killings of innocent citizens of this region should be stopped. The way our soldiers have to sacrifice their lives every now and then, should be stopped. We want that the huge chunk of India’s budget that used to be spent on tackling the issue of separatism and terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir, should now be used for 78 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Sushil Kumar Gupta] retaining peace and carry out development activities in this region. People from across the country should now be able to go to this region to engage in business activities so as to ensure the development of the people of this region. Jai Hind.
PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV (Uttar Pradesh): Thank You Mr. Vice Chairman Sir for giving me time. When I was the member of the 14th Lok Sabha, I got the opportunity to visit Kashmir as a member of Petroleum Committee. In Kashmir, I have travelled from Srinagar to Pehelgaon and Gulmarg only once. When we were enroute to Gulmarg, we got our car stopped at one place. As we witnessed the beauty of the valley from there, we lamented about partition and said that it wasn’t good. It has resulted in increase in terrorist activities in the valley and people from other states are finding it difficult to come to this region. It is such a beautiful State. Although I am not in the favour of abrogation of Article 370 from here, but you are going to do away with it. If you intended to do away with article 370, you could have done so, but why did you withdraw the Statehood? Was it necessary to convert this State into a Union Territory for the purpose of abrogation of Article 370? There is no such constitutional compulsion. ...(Interruptions)... Presently there are 29 States in the country, now the number will be reduced to 28. We have 7 Union Territories, now this number will be increased to 9. Everything has been mentioned in the first Schedule of the Constitution. Ever since you have increased the number of Para Military Forces there and the way media created hype in the country, you should have been concerned about that. Many a time media unnecessarily creates the feeling of baseless apprehension and fear in the hearts of people. The entire country had the apprehension that something untoward may happen. Just a couple of days back when there was some discussion here on some matter, members from that side made tall claims regarding the improvement that has been brought about in Kashmir. They said that for the first time Amarnath Yatra is going to take place peacefully in India. All of a sudden you returned the Amarnath devotees and stopped booking in all the hotels. No tourist can go there. Those who were there have been evicted and asked to go back to their respective places. This created an apprehension in the hearts of people that something untoward may happen which can result in disturbance. I would like to tell you one thing that disturbance in peace gives happiness to the separatists, but those who like living peacefully, feel worried and scared and then the situation becomes more dangerous. Separatists actually want violence in the region. They want people to get killed. The intention of the separatists is that innocent people get killed in the firing by police and as a result their attachment with India may reduce. This is what they want and this is what you are going to do. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 79
You can refer to history. Whenever attempts have been made to repress the public by applying police force or the force of army or by any other kinds of forces, such attempts have proved unsuccessful. When the public protests on some matter... had you taken a few people... even the public representatives in to confidence, we could have avoided the fear psychosis that has been created by the media in the entire country.. Had we taken the political parties and people’s representatives of Kashmir in to confidence, people would not have felt apprehensive. Now various kinds of speculations are going on like this may happen there, that may happen there. Telephone services have been suspended, Internet services have been suspended. Everything has been done. Such information ciculated when through media in the country and outside the country, you cannot stop that. If the other countries form from an opinion against India, will it not affect our foreign policy? We cannot manage to isolate ourselves in the present times. We will have to retain the number of our friendly nations or we may have to increase it and we will also have to try to win the trust of even those nations who are against us. But if people feel that there is a Police State kind of a situation, in one State of India, then many countries which are having good terms with us, may change their opinion because of this issue. You may use the media for your advantage, and that you will do, it doesn’t matter, but you should also keep the interest of the country in mind. Whatever media is showing, it may ultimately harm us and can harm the country also. You will have to ensure that it doesn’t happen. Secondly, I thought a lot about this logic. You have created two Union Territories of Ladakh and Jammu and Kashmir and have given Lieutenant Governors to these UTs. Right now only one Lieutenant Governor will look after both the UTs but you may possibly appoint separate Lieutenant Governors for both these UTs later. Then the Governors will become Lieutenant Governors. Your ideas behind this are beyond our imagination as wherever Lieutenant Governors are there particularly in Puducherry and Delhi.. AAP members are presently supporting, Bill before that they were complaining on a regular basis. ...(Interruptions)... When the Deputy Chief Minister and the Health Minister of their party were unwell and admitted in a hospital, I visited them. The Chief Minister was sitting in protest at the residence of the Lieutenant Governor. He refused to meet even the Chief Minister. For how many days the Chief Minister kept sitting there? Sanjay Singh ji, please tell whether I went there or not? You were present there. ...(Interruptions)... Such a situation should not have arisen. I have had a long association with the Chief Minister of Puducherry and he is an old friend of mine. Once he came to my residence with his entire cabinet and told me that the Lieutenant Governor is troubling him. So the Chief Minister does not have any say. Here also you have made a provision similar to the one you made in Puducherry. 80 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav] I have gone through it in a hurry, as you brought it in a hasty manner. Through you I would like to know from the Minister of Home Affairs, otherwise you will ask me to look towards you, so through you I would like to ask him the reasons for such a hurry? ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: We have already delayed it for 70 years.
PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV: I am not asking about year. Today is 5th. You could have circulated the Bill today so that the members could get the time to read it. If you can get it passed today, you can get the same done tomorrow or a day after. What big difference will you bring about in Kashmir in a day? ...(Interruptions)... How will it help ...(Interruptions)... We don’t even have complete idea as to what provisions are there in this Bill? We have just seen in a glance as to what all is there in the Bill. ...(Interruptions)...
AN HON. MEMBER: Today is Naga Panchami.
PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV: Today is Naga Panchami. On this day we worship the snakes, we offer milk to them and then they stings us for five years. Dr. Lohia used to say that for five years you will oppose and after that you will again feed it. As a result it will again be ready to sting for the next five years.
(Mr. Deputy Chairman in the Chair)
You have taken this step in a very hasty manner. I feel that you haven’t even given it a proper thought. Suppose disturbance is created in Kashmir, presently the situation there was under control. It was so much in control. As compared to the past, the situation there has undoubtedly improved a lot now. But now we apprehend that disturbance may be created in this region as efforts will be made to create the same from across the border. If such attempts are made and disturbance is created, then the situation may become worse than before. We are taking this step with a good intention but the situation may get worse than before. I know that you are not bothered whether people in Kashmir die or survive. You only want the people in the rest of the country get the opportunity to say that Article 370 has been aprogated. The members sitting here have affection for all the people in the country, irrespective of their religion or caste. Unlike you, they don’t discriminate ...(Interruptions)... You did not hear this sentence. I would like to say that unlike you, we, who are sitting this side, do not discriminate in the name of religion, caste or region. You do it. So you took this step to send the message across the country, particularly to the people of a specific religion that you have done such a great job. You must be Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 81 benefitted during the elections, no matter the country suffers a huge loss. Thisis your principle and I know that you will be working with the same intention in the future as well. With these words, I oppose the Bill brought by you.
THE Minister of State of the Ministry of Development of North Eastern Region; the Minister of State in the Prime Minister’s Office; the Minister of State in the Ministry of Personnel, Public Grievances and Pensions; the Minister of State in the Department of Atomic Energy; and the Minister of State in the Department of Space (Dr. Jitendra Singh): Hon’ble Deputy Chairman Sir, I don’t rise to give any speech as there are many speakers and we all are looking forward to hear the reply of the hon’ble Minister of Home Affairs. I have stood only to welcome this Bill.
Today when this discussion is going on, even before this debate concludes, and even before the hon. Home Minister has finished, completing his reply, this day, the day of 5th of August, 2019, has already gone in the history of India as a day of redemption, as a day of resurgence and as a day of rejuvenation. Article 370 was a miscarriage of history and one of the gravest blunders of the post independent India. Today, it is the time when we must correct the wrongdoings of the past. We are fortunate to be the Members of Parliament at a time when this correction is being done. Perhaps the God wanted Shri Narendra Modi to take the reins of the country in his hands and Shri Amit Shah to be the Minister of Home Affairs. What is ordained can’t be changed, perhaps this is the reason we had to wait for 70 years for this thing to happen. Three generations have tolerated this injustice and helplessness and have reached this point. I don’t want to speak in detail. I am unable to understand as to why the Congress Party is raising objections on this. We have completed the task that they had left incomplete. Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru himself said that this is temporary and he made this remark that gradually it will fade away. The exact phrase used by Prime Minister. Pandit Nehru – when there were some reservations expressed – He said that people must not be worried about it and with time it will become ineffective. His successors could not make it ineffective and this responsibility came in Shri Narendra Modi and Shri Amit Shah’s share.
Similarly in 1964 when Shastri Ji was the Prime Ministers, a comprehensive debate took place in the Parliament. Replying to the debate, the then Minister of Home Affairs Shri Gulzarilal Nanda said that almost all the political parties feel that it is the time to bid adieu to article 370. Please give some time to the Government to think over it, we will contemplate as to how to move forward in this regard. Then the circumstances changed, we don’t want to go into that history, we have 82 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Dr. Jitendra Singh] repeated that here a number of times. It was laden with a series a blunders, one after the other. Hence, without going into the details I would only like to say that today there is the atmosphere of rejoice in Jammu and Kashmir. Be it Jammu, or Ladakh whose demand of a Union Territory is being fulfilled, or be it the Kashmir Valley, there is happiness all around. The common man walking in the streets of Srinagar today is rejoicing. He cannot express his happiness because he is terrified. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI ANAND SHARMA (Himachal Pradesh): There is no atmosphere of rejoice there, actually curfew has been imposed there.
DR. Jitendra Singh: He started rejoicing even before the curfew is lifted. He has already become a part of the development journey led by Modi ji. Without getting into the details, I would only like to agree with the Minister of Home Affairs when he said that we could bring this Bill only because we do not have any vested interest. Those people may be concerned or have objections whose vested interests have been hurt somewhere and who have been the beneficiaries of 8-10 per cent of voter-turn-out to be the Members of Parliament or Legislative Assembly. I don’t want to go into that discussion. I conclude by saying that we are part of a global world. India today is part of a global world. You have no right, absolutely, to deprive Jammu and Kashmir being a part of this global world. Our hopes, aspirations and desires are alike and our difficulties and sufferings are also the same. There is a couplet:
“Meri Zameen bhi tumhari Zameen se milti hai Deedaye peer e hasti bebasi bhi ek si hai.”
Our story is the same, our problems are the same, our hopes are the same, and still we could not purchase land there. As it is said:
‘Lamhon ne khata ki, sadiyon ne saza paayi.’
Sir, three generations have been punished. Today we have got the opportunity to move forward. And, certainly, as I said, we have no right to deprive Jammu and Kashmir being part of global India and no right to deprive the youth of Jammu and Kashmir to be the beneficiaries of the enormous avenues unleashed in India bythe Modi Government and to deprive Jammu and Kashmir to be a part of new India’s journey led by Modiji. Thank you.
———— Messages from [5 August, 2019] Lok Sabha 83
MESSAGES FROM LOK SABHA
(I) The Airports Economic Regulatory Authority of India (Amendment) Bill, 2019
(II) The Motor Vehicles (Amendment) Bill, 2019
(II) The National Medical Commission Bill, 2019
SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, I have to report to the House the following messages received from the Lok Sabha, signed by the Secretary-General of the Lok Sabha:-
(I)
“In accordance with the provisions of rule 120 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Lok Sabha, I am directed to inform you that Lok Sabha, at its sitting held on the 2nd August, 2019, agreed without any amendment to the Airports Economic Regulatory Authority of India (Amendment) Bill, 2019, which was passed by Rajya Sabha at its sitting held on the 16th July, 2019.”
(II)
“In accordance with the provisions of rule 101 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Lok Sabha, I am directed to inform you that the following amendments made by Rajya Sabha in the Motor Vehicles (Amendment) Bill, 2019 at its sitting held on the 31st July, 2019, were taken into consideration and agreed to by Lok Sabha at its sitting held on the 5th August, 2019:-
CLAUSE 30
1. That at page 11, line 25, for the word “consultation”, the word “concurrence” be substituted.
CLAUSE 34
2. That at page 14, line 2, for the word “consult”, the words “seek concurrence of be substituted.
CLAUSE 77
3. That at page 37, line 24, for the word, bracket and figure “sub-section (4)”, the word, bracket and figure “sub-section (1)” be substituted.” 84 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
(III)
“In accordance with the provisions of rule 101 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Lok Sabha, I am directed to inform you that the following amendments made by Rajya Sabha in the National Medical Commission Bill, 2019 at its sitting held on the 1st August, 2019, were taken into consideration and agreed to by Lok Sabha at its sitting held on the 5th August, 2019:-
CLAUSE 4
1. That at page 3, line 27, for the word “fourteen”, the word “twenty-two” be substituted.
2. That at page 4, line 16, for the word “six”, the word “ten” be substituted.
3. That at page 4, line 20, for the word “five”, the word “nine” be substituted.
CLAUSE 37
4. That at page 18, line 24, after the words “qualification to be equivalent”, the words “for the purposes of teaching also.” be inserted.”
————
STATUTORY RESOLUTIONS – Contd.
Cessation of all Clauses of Article 370 except Clause (1)
The Jammu and Kashmir Re-organisation Bill, 2019 AND GOVERNMENT BILLS – Contd.
The Jammu and Kashmir Re-organization Bill, 2019
The Jammu and Kashmir Reservation (Second Amendment) Bill, 2019
SHRI BINOY VISWAM (Kerala): Sir, in the name of my Party, the Communist Party of India, I oppose this Bill.
Sir, this Bill came to the House in a very conspiratorial manner. I wonder why the Government chose this path of conspiracy to make such a far-reaching change in our Constitution. Sir, we all say that Kashmir is an integral part of India. It was, it is and it will be an integral part of India. Saying that, the Government led by the BJP, today paved the way for making Kashmir ‘not an integral part of India’. It is giving leverage to those people in Pakistan, the separatists, to say Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 85 that Kashmir is no more a part of India. The people are really afraid there. For the last more than one week, the Government was building up a fear psychosis in the whole Valley saying that impending danger is there on Jammu and Kashmir. Battalions of Armies, companies of Army men, are sent to Jammu and Kashmir. Policemen are put in alert. A scene was developed there that something is going to happen in Jammu and Kashmir. After creating such a dramatic and fearful atmosphere, today morning at 11 O’clock, the Government came to the Parliament to turn this conspiracy into practice. Sir, one State is ceased to be a part of India. In that place, two UTs come to become part of India, the UT of Ladakh and the UT of Jammu and Kashmir, and the State of Jammu and Kashmir disappears from the map of India. Sir, why is this dramatic and unimaginable way of doing things? No democratic Government can think of doing politics in such a very ugly manner. That is the simple word I can use for that. It was most ugly. It is a political approach of the BJP and not India’s national approach. India always believed that it is a country where there is diversity. People have the right of upholding the diversity, but BJP has always been saying, one nation-one religion and now, sometimes they say ‘one leader’ as well. The BJP has got the right to preach and practice all the philosophy and politics that it wants, but they should not try to impose that politics as national politics. Political party and nation are different. The motive behind this Bill is imposing a particular Party’s politics on the country. Hence, it cannot be appreciated. That is why, I repeat, the way in which this legislation has been brought in the House and the haste with which it was done prove that the BJP is not for the unity of this country. It is not for India’s unity and not for keeping Kashmir as a part of India.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please conclude. There are two more speakers to speak on this.
SHRI BINOY VISWAM: Sir, I believe that the people of Kashmir and the people of India would constantly and vehemently oppose this Bill. We are sure that a day would come when people would change this draconian law and bring India’s real ethics and India’s real essence back to the Indian Constitution.
SHRIMATI VANDANA CHAVAN (Maharashtra): Sir, for us Indians and for several foreigners who visit Kashmir, Kashmir has always been a land of ‘heaven on earth’ for its beauty. However, it is a matter of great pain and concern for all of us that it has been under constant turmoil for several years now. Governments of the day have tried their best to bring about peace. However, in the spurt of discontent and attacks by terrorists, we have lost thousands of innocent lives in the past years. In spite of this, however, we were able to establish a democratic process which 86 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shrimati Vandana Chavan] we must compliment our earlier Governments for. Stalwarts like Sheikh Abdullah, Farooq Abdullah — I wish to take names because we will not have a Chief Minister anymore for that State — Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad, Omar Abdullah, Mufti Mohammad Sayeed, have ail given their best to the State to bring about development in spite of several challenges that they were facing.
Sir, there has always been a lot of discussion on whether Article 370 should be done away with. There has always been a genuine concern for the development of Kashmir and for establishing peace in this ‘land of God’. Sir, we were shocked this morning when the Reorganization Bill was brought in this House for introduction and passing. It literally gave us goose-pimples.
Sir, it would have been so much better if this step was taken after discussion with the leaders of the State and by building a consensus. It would have been so much better if a decision had been taken when there was a State Government in existence. It would have been so much better if the will of the people of Kashmir was taken into consideration. And it would have been better if there was a democratic process followed in this decision. Now that it seems that the Bill would be passed, we only hope that the Government takes care that there is no backlash and there is no bloodshed. We hope that this step would ensure peace for the State of Jammu and Kashmir and its people.
Sir, once again, I wish to reiterate that while hoping and praying for the best for the people and citizens of Jammu and Kashmir, our brothers and sisters staying there, we still consider that the way that this Bill was brought in the House was absolutely condemnable and, therefore, NCP decides to abstain from voting. Thank you, Sir.
SHRI RAKESH SINHA (Nominated): Hon’ble Deputy Chairman Sir, in India’s history this day will be written in golden letters. This is not because Article 370 is being repealed but because the souls of a big section of the architects of our Constitution are getting contentment for the first time. Deputy Chairman Sir, Iam taking the names of four persons. The constitution came into being on 28th January 1950 but it was not complete. That incompletion has been bridged by the glorious Prime Minister of India Shri Narendra Modi ji and reputable Minister of Home Affairs Shri Amit Shah ji. For that the whole House should compliment them. A new history is being created and this history is doing away with the old distortion. Sir, if Babasaheb Ambedkar has ever been given a befitting tribute, then it is being given today on 5th August. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 87
Deputy Chairman Sir, who were the beneficiaries of Article 370, I would like to mention an incident related to that. In 1980, a hotel’s lease ended whose name I do not want to take. In 1988 that lease was renewed retrospectively and the value of that lease was rupees 52,000 per year. Those who acquired it on lease used to get lacs of rupees during the year. There was a hotel of the Welcome Group whose lease was renewed. In that, the Government received 80 lakh rupees in a span of 95 years and that hotel got 19 crore 20 lakh rupees. Such endless incidents kept taking place in Kashmir-in the name of Kashmir, in the name of its autonomy, a handful of people and families kept taking advantage of it. Today that benefit is being transferred to the common citizens whether they are from the Jain community, Buddhist community, the followers of Islam or Hindus, today every citizen of Kashmir will be benefited without any discrimination. Ghulam Nabi Azad ji was saying that you did not debate in the House. I want to give him a reply that this is not the habit of the Bharatiya Janata Party rather this has been a habit of the Congress Party. When you had brought 35A in 1954 through a Presidential Order, which House did it pass through? The 35A which changed the whole atmosphere of Kashmir, raised walls among citizens, you did not consider the importance of the House to bring such an important issue. I want to mention another incident which is an important incident of the history. Many of us must have read that episode of the constituent assembly. When the issue of Kashmir was brought to the United Nations on the advice of Mountbatten before article 370, who was that Mountbatten? When the motion of making Mountbatten the Governor General was brought to the constituent assembly, the constituent assembly questioned that when was there a discussion to make Mountbatten the Governor General. Deputy Chairman Sir, the meeting of the constituent assembly was adjourned not only once but twice on the issue that without knowing the view of the constituent assembly who appointed Mountbatten the Governor General and on what grounds. Ultimately, only keeping in the view of Nehru ji’s prestige the constituent assembly accepted Mountbatten as the Governor General. On the advice of the same Mountbatten we took it to the United Nations. I want to tell my friends from the Congress that the work you were carrying out in retail, we have done that in bulk. How you did it in retail, I give you an example of that. In 1964, when Sheikh Abdullah got out of the prison, he went to Pakistan, he had been talking to Ayub in Pakistan, in the meantime Pandit Nehru expired. Sheikh Abdullah wrote a letter to Shastri ji from London. The letter written to Shastri ji on 17th March 1964 should be carefully read. In that letter, Sheikh Abdullah said to Shastri ji, “you are reversing the process which was initiated by Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru.” 88 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Rakesh Sinha] What was it that Shastriji was reversing? The Sadr-e-riyasat which was being talked about, Sadr-e-riyasat and the Prime Minister was being talked about, the Government of Shastriji through the sixth amendment to the constitution had removed both of them to the effect that in place of Sadr-e-riyasat there will be a Governor and in place of the Prime Minister there will be a Chief Minister. You had initiated the work of rectifying that whole process but you were carrying it out with fear, you were compromising, today we are doing it with courage, we are carrying it out in bulk. We are assimilating Kashmir completely in India. Ghulam Nabi Azad ji was saying that the country is being beheaded. The head is not being cut rather it is being adorned. 370 was like a temporary migraine in the head we are abolishing that migraine permanently. Deputy Chairman Sir, it is imperative to make a mention of two incidents. What was done in Kashmir when Shastri ji brought the sixth constitutional amendment? The chairpersons of Majlis-e-Auqaf Islamia, Jamaat-e-Islami, Plebisite Committee were arrested and in 1965 again Sheikh Abdullah was arrested, Shastriji took an important step, in the same 1964, Prakash Vir Shamri brought Private Member Bill in which Bhagwat jha Azad of Congress, Peelu Modi of Swatantra Party, Saroj Pandey of Communist Left- all were in favour of abrogating Article 370. Today the history is being repeated. Perhaps the media, the people of India would never have imagined that the Bill is being supported by Bahujan Samaj Party, Aam Aadami Party, this is a glorious step taken by India’s celebrated Prime Minister which is getting support from all the quarters. Deputy Chairman Sir, nation building does not take place by itself. For building a nation one has to struggle at every step. The people who say that Kashmiris will become like Afghanistanis, Kashmiris will become like Palestinians, I want to tell them that Kashmiris will remain Indians at every juncture. They will stand with India at every juncture, you do not leave the House with this apprehension. Deputy Chairman Sir, Article 370 was a Himalayan blunder. That Himalayan blunder, that historic distortion has been corrected today. I want to say to the Minister of Home Affairs and the Prime Minister of India and want to quote this line from Nirala ‘‘hogi jai hogi jai he purushottam navin’’. We will definitely achieve success. Article 370 was like a black blot on the unity and integrity of India, it was like a speed breaker, that speed breaker has now been removed. India is one, will remain one. Kashmir is the Crown of India and it will remain so. Only we are just reaching the public and greeting them. I hope the Congress Party recollects that regime of Shastri ji. I want to conclude by saying this last thing that you used to go one step forward two steps backward, this is what you did in Indira Gandhi Sheikh Abdullah Accord. We are not making a compromise, with concerns we are making a reach Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 89 in Kashmir. The people of India are making meaningful the words of Baba Saheb Ambedkar, Dr Shyama Prasad Mukherjee, Sardar Patel and Iyengar together when Gopal Swamy Iyengar had said, ‘it would be a thing of past’. This is what he said on 17th November 1949 and today on 5th August 2019, after making this a thing of past we will exit the House. Thank you.
SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM (Maharashtra): Sir, as many of my colleagues have said, this is a very sad thing. It is more than sad. In the Constitutional history of India, this will be a black day. I have no illusions that I can persuade anyone from the Treasury Benches to listen to us or to appreciate our argument or to change their mind or to defer this Bill. It will be an exercise in futility. If I stand up to speak and perform this exercise in futility, it is because I speak through you in this House to future generations of India. Momentarily, you think you have scored a victory. The drum beats that you will hear on the streets will certainly encourage you to believe that you have scored a signal victory, or, as one of the hon. Members said, you have corrected, “a so-called injustice of history”. You are wrong, and history will prove you to be wrong and future generations will realize what a grave mistake this House is making today.
Sir, let me deal with a few things and close my speech. I certainly don’t have the heart to speak today. A few days ago, I wrote that the Lok Sabha is the House of the People; the Rajya Sabha is the Council of States. Our foremost duty is to protect the rights of the States, and by protecting the rights of the States, protect the rights of the people of those States. Day after day, we fail to protect the rights of States. We have passed numerous Bills which are on the Concurrent List. There has been no consultation with any State, yet we pass those Bills completely oblivious of the rights of the States. I wrote that we are reducing States to municipal administrations. Today, we have gone a further step. You are not even reducing States to municipal administrations; you are making States and you will make States your vassal. You will reduce States to colonies, and you think you are doing something which is constitutional. Sir, be that as it may, what have you done today? You are passing an Order under Article 370, by which you are repealing the earlier Application Order and making a new Application Order. Ostensibly, the purpose is to amend Article370, sub-Article (d), and substitute the words, “Legislative Assembly” for the words “Constituent Assembly”. Well, I am sure some wise men in the Law Ministry may have told you that it is possible. I have no quarrel with anyone’s wisdom. I could be wrong and they could be right, but I think you have forgotten that you cannot modify Article 370 by an order under Article 370. Article 370 enables you to modify such other provisions in the Constitution. It is beyond my comprehension 90 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri P. Chidambaram] how Article 370 order can be used to modify Article 370. I leave it there. I am certainly not competent to hold a class in law. I may be wrong, but it is beyond my comprehension how Article 370 can be used to modify Article 370 when the language of the Article is that you can modify other provisions in the Constitution. You are doing another thing. You are passing two Resolutions today, hoping that you will pass. I am sure you will pass them. Under the first Resolution, Article 370 itself will cease to exist. I know this is your manifesto promise. You had said that you would repeal Article 370. By this Resolution, you think that you are repealing Article 370, but in repealing Article 370, you are unleashing the forces which you cannot control. I have dealt with the State of Jammu and Kashmir. Today, the hon. Home Minister deals with that State and more than anyone else, he will appreciate what I am saying. Yes, there are a number of young men in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, who have taken to violence, who preach secession and who want to split Jammu and Kashmir from the Union of India. No one condones their action, no one supports their action. The Congress party and every other party is impeccably opposed to those young men. While, there are thousands of other young men, for reasons which they think are good, pelted stones, thousands of other young men for reasons which they think are good, called hartals. I have interacted with them. I led a delegation of Parliament along with Shri Arun Jaitley. When we first visited the State of Jammu and Kashmir, as Home Minister, they called a hartal. The whole State was shut down. But, when I led a Parliamentary delegation, along with Shri Arun Jaitley and many other distinguished Members of Parliament, the whole State turned out to receive us. Thousands and thousands of people came to see us. Thousands and thousands of people came and represented to us and I have stated what I had gathered from that experience. It was an eye-opener for all of us. Not all citizens in Jammu and Kashmir want; in fact, an overwhelming majority in Jammu and Kashmir, do not want secession; do not want to leave the Union of India. You may disagree with me, but, I believe that they want more autonomy. Now, whether you want to give them autonomy or not, it is the prerogative of Government. But, I believe that they want autonomy. Now, what are you doing by repealing Article 370? I fear, I genuinely fear hon. Home Minister, that you are pushing thousands and thousands of young men from this column to join the other column of a few hundreds. I sincerely hope that it will not happen. But, if it happens, you will rue this day when you repeal Article 370.
The second thing that you are doing is you are dismembering a State. You think that you are doing it to the State of Jammu and Kashmir. But, what you are doing to the State of Jammu and Kashmir, using these provisions, misinterpreting Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 91
4.00 p.m. these provisions, in fact, I could go on to say, by mischievously interpreting these provisions, what you are doing to Jammu and Kashmir, can be done to any other State. Please tell me, why the mechanism that you have devised to dismember the State of Jammu and Kashmir will not apply to any other State? Please convince us that Derek O’Brien and I are wrong. All you have to do is to dismiss an elected Government, dissolve the State Legislature, promulgate President’s Rule, declare Parliament to be the State Legislature for the time being and divide the State. I told my friend from Odisha, what stops our future Government from carving out a Union Territory for the KBK Districts? What stops our future Government from creating a Union Territory or a new State for North Bengal? What stops our future Government from dividing Tamil Nadu? My friends from AIADMK are here. They do not realise what they are doing. The same provisions, the same method, the same Resolutions can be applied to any State. But, I think, in doing it for Jammu and Kashmir, you have made a fatal legal error. I won’t tell what the legal error is now. You will discover it in due course but my greater concern is, what you are doing today sends a very, very wrong signal to all the States of this country.
Sir, all I can do is appeal, appeal to the hon. Home Minister, even at this late stage, stop, pause, reflect on what you are doing. If you are determined to repeal Article 370, I can do nothing about it. It is between you and those who want Article 370 and the Supreme Court of India but the other thing that you are doing, dismembering Jammu and Kashmir, dismembering Jammu and Kashmir, for heaven’s sake, in the name of the people of India, I appeal to you, don’t do that. Don’t dismember that State. It is one State. It came to us as one State. I do not want to recall history or those tall personalities who brought Jammu and Kashmir to accede to India. Some names continue to reverberate, Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, V.P. Menon, N. Gopalaswami Ayyangar, they brought Jammu and Kashmir under the Instrument of Accession. That is history. That is the historical document. It is as important as the Constitution of India but if you wish to ignore history, if you wish to ignore the pact made with Maharaja Hari Singh, if you wish to ignore what Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel was able to achieve in those difficult days, it is your privilege; do what you like but what you are doing is wrong. Repealing Article 35A is wrong. Amending the Constitution invoking Article 370 is wrong. Doing away with Article 370 is wrong. Do all these wrongs; do all these wrongs; I am willing to, oh my, I am willing to tolerate all those wrongs but for heaven’s sake, don’t dismember Jammu and Kashmir, don’t do that cardinal sin, don’t do that monumental blunder. 92 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri P. Chidambaram] Sir, shortly after I was born, this country became free. This country is free, democratic, republican, liberal and secular. All of us who are below the age of seventy, all of you who are below the age of seventy, were born in such a country. Today, I despair, how long will this country remain the country envisaged by the founding fathers of our Constitution; how long will it remain truly free, truly democratic, truly republican, truly liberal, truly secular and truly a Union of States? India, that is, Bharat, is a Union of States. What you are doing is destroying that Union of States and what you do today will have catastrophic consequences in the future. If you know what you are doing, do it. If you know what you are doing, do it but please remember, you will bear responsibility for the catastrophic consequences of this action. I stoutly oppose what the Government is doing, and, we will sit here, listen to you and vote against what you are doing.
SHRI PRASHANTA NANDA (Odisha): Sir, this is a memorable day. And this memorable day waited for 19 years. When hon. Atal Bihari Vajpayee became Prime Minister, journalists asked him that since abrogation of Article 370 was in his manifesto, when he is going to do it. He said, “I have a fractured mandate. I will wait when people of India will give us the proper mandate to abrogate Article 370.” I must say it a memorable day, because the people of India endorsed it with a thumping majority by voting for Shri Narendra Modi ji to be the Prime Minister. Indirectly, they have voted in favour of abrogation of Article 370. What all did we not do in 70 years! Out of 29 States people from 28 States kept on asking that why do the people of our army die when we do so much for them. Whenever there is a flood there what was it that our Army didn’t do! But what did they get in return-stone pelting, firing and our people who died, we kept on receiving their dead bodies at the airport in our States, this is what has happened. Why? Kashmir is our head. If Kashmir is our head then it it not cut down but it rises even higher with the abrogatrion of Article 370. Today is the day of holding this head even higher, thus it is a memorable day. What has happened in 70 years? ...(Time-bell rings)... Even today we believe that Kashmiri people, the people who live there, they love India. They want to be ...(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Prashant ji, please conclude.
SHRI PRASHANTA NANDA: Yes, I am concluding.
But these terrorists, separatists have created such an environment that they are scared. We people think that those who carry out terrorist acts are the Kashmiri people, but they are not Kashmiris. Thus, the abrogation Bill which has been brought today sends a message. ...(Time-bell rings)... that message is that:– Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 93
“AI Kashmir mein rehne walo antankiyo, 4 tum par lagenge 4 hum pe lagenge. Do aansu tum par bahenge, do aansu hum par bahenge? Lekin fark sirf itna hi hoga ki Doli Jai Hind ki uthegi aur janaza tumhara uthega?”
Thank you very much.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri K. K. Ragesh. The time allotted to your party is over. You conclude within two minutes only.
SHRI K. K. RAGESH (Kerala): Sir, I stand to vehemently oppose this Bill that has been brought here through unconstitutional means. We are witnessing assassination of the Constitution and the democratic ethos and secular fabric of our country is being questioned. Sir, with a nearly 32-line Resolution, the Government has killed the State of Jammu and Kashmir. An extraordinary situation is prevailing in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, which is no more now. Political leaders are being house- arrested. The Government is saying that this particular Bill is being accepted by the people of Jammu and Kashmir. If that is the case, why did you deploy 35,000 Army personnel in the State of Jammu and Kashmir? Why did you house-arrest all the leaders of different political parties including CPM leader, Mr. Mohammed Yousuf Tarigami, who is also house-arrested? Some regional parties are supporting this Bill. This may happen to all the States including Tamil Nadu, Odisha, Andhra Pradesh and any other State. This is a pathetic situation that exists now. I would like to read out a few lines of Pastor Niemoller. He said, “First they came for socialists, and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.” Sir, things are developing in such a way. Our Constitution is under threat. What more to expect from a party which has adhered to the principle of fascistic Hindu Rashtra ideology. They have adhered to the fascistic, narcissist and Hitler ideology. They must understand the history. They should go through history and find out what happened to Hitler and Mussolini. They have to understand that. They are ruling our country in an undemocratic manner. Our Constitution is under threat. I request all the people of our country to stand united and fight against them. They are going to kill our democracy. They are goingto kill the Constitution. They are going to destroy the secular fabric of our country. I request all the people. If the people want this, why are Army personnel deployed there? They are killing the democracy. They are destroying it. There is a kind of alienation that is taking place in Jammu and Kashmir. It is their responsibility to 94 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri K. K. Ragesh] reduce alienation. There was a promise. The then Home Minister had promised for a dialogue and a political process. But why is the Government not doing that? The Government is not ready to do certain political process. They are not going for dialogue with stakeholders. Unfortunately, through this 32-line Resolution, they are killing the State of Jammu and Kashmir. Hence, it would amount to further alienation of the people of Kashmir. I request the Government not to do it because we do not want a Palestine State of India. We want the people. Kashmir, of course, is an integral part of India. It is an integral part of India, but the people of Kashmir should feel that. There should not be any alienation. So, they have to address the question of alienation. This is not the way that they have to do it. They are killing democracy. They are killing our Constitution. I request the Government to be very careful while taking this kind of a drastic step which will further increase alienation of the people of Kashmir. With these words, I once again thank you for giving me this opportunity. Thank you very much.
SHRI ABDUL WAHAB (Kerala): Thank you, Sir, for giving me the opportunity.
“Ice, snow, the glacier, All the three are water. Two children from the same parents - The Muslims and the Hindus. Why this gulf of hatred between the two? Be pleased with the servants, of my Lord”
Prayed Sheikh Noor ud Din, a Kashmiri mystic regarded as the patron saint of Kashmiris, who is commonly known as Sheikh ul Alam, Alamdar-e-Kashmir and Tajul Auliya among the Muslims and whom Kashmiri Pandits reverently call Nund Rishi and Shahzanand. The question and prayer posed by Sheikh Noor ud-Din has much relevance in today’s turbulent Kashmir.
Uncertainty and panic has gripped Jammu and Kashmir amid rumours of imminent abrogation of Article 35A of the Constitution and with the deployment of thousands of extra troops to the valley. The speculation is rife. Yesterday, when I prepared this there was a speculation but now this is a reality. The reality comes, about the suspension or the cancellation of Article 370. Why is the Government in a hurry for these sorts of actions, like the triple talaq Bill and this Resolution relating to Article 370? I agree that it was in the manifesto of BJP. They have all the rights to adhere to their promises given to the public. They have got the mandate. But, why can’t they come with this procedure in a legal way? Why have they not brought it in a Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 95 proper manner? Why are they not giving us some time to read these sorts of Bills and all? Suddenly, the Bills are coming and are being passed like this one. How many Bills were passed in the last few days? I request Shri Amit Shah to consider sending it to a Select Committee, and to give us some time; time to the citizens of India and Kashmiris also to discuss this one and pass the Bill. Thank you, Sir.
SHRI C. M. RAMESH (Andhra Pradesh): Sir, today is a historic day. It will remain in the history. In this House, I have seen two State Re-organization Bills, that is, one; the Andhra Pradesh Re-organization Act and, now, the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganization Bill. In the beginning of bifurcation, it will give pain to the stakeholders. Now, after bifurcation, it will be a gain; like they did here in the case of Andhra Pradesh and Telangana. It is an example. Now, both States are progressing. There in Andhra Pradesh, at the time of bifurcation, it was a progressive State and it was a development State. There was no terrorism there; there was no violence but because people there wanted it, the bifurcation happened. At the time of bifurcation, I also stood in protest for so many days. In the beginning, it will give pain but not after that. At that time of bifurcation, how did it happen? In Lok Sabha, they closed the doors; they suspended the Treasury Benches’ MPs; they removed the Chief Minister and the President’s rule had come.
They threw all Andhra Pradesh MPs out and television coverage was also closed. There was no live telecast. Today is the day of Jammu and Kashmir bifurcation. I am happy that all the parties and all the leaders have spoken. It is good for the country. It is good for the nation. At the time of bifurcation, on that day, the same thing we had said what Shri Chidambaram, Sir, has said today. On that day also, we also told the same thing. It will happen, but, after the bifurcation, everybody will be happy. Both the States are progressing. This is an example. Thank you very much, Sir.
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF SOCIAL JUSTICE AND EMPOWERMENT (SHRI RAM DAS ATHAWALE): Sir, I strongly support this Bill,
Ab Jaag Jayegi Jammu Kashmir ki hill, Ab aatankwad ho Jaega nil, Isliye mujhe achcha ho raha hai aaj feel. Aaj ka din nahi hal Kala, Isliye main pahnata hun Narendra Modi aur Amit Shah ko Phoolon ki Mala. Ab algaavwaadiyon le muhh ko lag Jayega tala, Aur aatankwad Ka saaf hojega nala, Khatm ho rahi hai 370 dhara, 96 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Ram Das Athawale] Ab aatankwad par ho jayega Jabardast mara, Bharat Jindabad ka ab wahan gunj jayega nara, Aur jaag jayega Jammu Kashmir saara.
Sir, the Bill we have today, there was a need to bring this Bill much earlier. When India got independence in 1947, all people know the history that this region was in possession of Raja Hari Singh. Pakistan suddenly attacked Kashmir and took 1/3 area of Kashmir in its possession. At that point as per the dialogue and agreement between Raja Hari Singh and Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru a decision was taken to annex Jammu and Kashmir to India. You people are aware that at that point Gopal Swamy Iyengar ji gave the draft for Article 306 (a) in the Federal Constituent Assembly which later on became Article 370, that is why Jammu Kashmir received different rights as compared to other States of India. I feel that what kind of a right is this that people from other States of India cannot buy land in Jammu Kashmir, also Article 360 imposing financial emergency does not apply on Jammu Kashmir, Jammu Kashmir has a different flag, the Parliament of India cannot enact any other law regarding Jammu Kashmir except defence, foreign affairs and communications. Article 356 does not apply there, the President does not possess the right to suspend the constitution and if a girl from Kashmir marries someone from another State, her citizenship of Kashmir is snatched away. Such restrictions are there in Kashmir. The meaning of abrogating Article 370 is annexing Jammu Kashmir, Ladakh with India. This is not to break them away from India. I expected that Congress Party would support this but you are not going to get votes there by opposing it. There is no intention of Narendra Modi ji and Amit Shah Ji to separate it from India by abrogating Article 370 or by deciding to make it a union territory for the unity of the country.
(MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the Chair)
Their objective is that terrorism there should end, the people there should be safeguarded, the economy there should develop, the unemployed there should get employment and Jammu Kashmir should remain with India for good. Similarly, I feel that in Jammu Kashmir and Ladakh-in Ladakh there are more Buddhists, in Jammu there are more Hindus, in Kashmir there are more Muslims and our Government does not oppose Muslims. I want to say that Kashmir is our head. Pakistan has attempted to break a part of our head. They have broken apart one third of our head. This decision has been taken now that by abrogating Article 370 NDA Government, the Modi Government has completed the process of annexing Jammu Kashmir, Ladakh to India. This is not at all injustice for them and it would not amount to injustice Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 97 with the people there. We will ask Tata, Birla, Mafatlal, Bajaj to go there and set up factories and provide employment to the unemployed people there. We wanted this to happen. Professor Ram Gopal Yadav ji there was an expectation from you that you will support us. Bahujan Samaj party has supported, then why are you not doing it. Our friendship with BSP doesn’t suit much rather it suits with you. You say that why did you bring this Bill in a hurry? I want to tell that if we do not work quickly how will we march ahead? We have to work quickly. There are still two days left, that is why we have brought this Bill. There is no point of keeping somebody aside from this. As per the Constitution of Babasaheb Ambedkar ji, this is a new law. Babasaheb Ambedkar ji had given the right of making a new law to the Parliament and in accordance with that this Bill has been brought with the spirit of strengthening Jammu Kashmir by removing this Article. This is not a matter of annexing Puducherry to Tamilnadu. Puducherry has been awarded the status of a separate State. By Making it a union territory now a decision has been taken to safeguard the people living there, to uproot terrorism there. Thus, I completely support the Bill brought by Amit Shah Ji on the behalf of my Party and want to appeal the Congress Party that Ghulam Nabi Azad ji has been the Chief Minister there, he has also been the Minister of Health of the State, he enjoys a very senior position in the Congress Party and just now about the President’s--- means if you are given the leadership of the opposition, even then it’s good. That is why we respect you. Your name is Azad hence the role of making Jammu - Kashmir and Ladakh free is ours. We are not imposing any emergency on Jammu and Kashmir. We protect the people living there, that is why this Bill has been brought. There was also a need on your part to support this. You people were sitting in the well. You kept sitting there for long. For how long did they sit there? You sat there for an hour. It is all right, you have the right to sit in the well. In the end I want to say only this:
“Narendra Modi Sarkar ne Article 370 ko hata diya hai aur Amit Shah ne Congress Walon ko kuch time tak well mein bitha diya Hai.”
It was the spirit of the people of India that there should not be Article 370 separately, we have done away with it and eliminated the reign of people shouting slogan “Pakistan zindabad”. This has been done by us, hence I completely support this Bill.
India will remain strong, Jammu and Kashmir will remain intact with us. We will not let a single individual from Jammu and Kashmir get hurt. We will patronize those who are not terrorists and imprison those who are terrorists. We have brought this Bill to carry this work out. I express my gratitude towards Amit Shah Sahab 98 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Ram Das Athawale] that you have brought a very good Bill. We have to strengthen the unity of the country hence, I support the Bill on the behalf of my party. Jai Bheem, Jai Bharat, Jai Jammu-Kashmir and Ladakh.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, I was a little disturbed in the morning because on such an important Bill, I wanted that every section of the House should express their views, whether in support of the Bill or against the Bill, that is left to you, and then, send a message to the country that we had a very meaningful discussion. But, unfortunately, for whatever reasons, I don’t want to go into them, for some time, that could not happen. Subsequently, I am happy that the House resumed discussion, and all parties are expressing their viewpoint. Though the time is over, I have decided that I will give time to some of the Members who want to speak now. And, of course, I have got some important names, like Shri Kapil Sibal from the Congress, and if any other Member is left out, he can send a slip — not four-five Members from the same party — if any party, any individual, anygroup is left out, they can send a slip to me. I will go through it also. And then, the Minister also, if they want to speak, if at all, I will give permission. Then, I will call them also. Now, Shri Kapil Sibal.
SHRI KAPIL SIBAL (Uttar Pradesh): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You will have seven to eight minutes.
SHRI KAPIL SIBAL: Yes, Sir. I will finish in seven to eight minutes.
MR. CHAIRMAN: That is what you suggested.
SHRI KAPIL SIBAL: Very kind of you, Sir. Sir, today, is not a day to go back into history. Today, is also not a day when we should be talking about law because, today, is a day when we should be thinking about why we are here; what the Constitution makers thought when they had framed this Constitution; why are we a democratic nation; what should democracy involve; these are questions that we need to ask ourselves today. Sir, I know that the Bill will be passed because you have manufactured a majority. Therefore, we can do nothing about that. While you call this a moment which is historic, only history will judge whether it is historic or not. Because history will tell whether it was a blot on it, whether it is a blot on the federal structure whether you tried to anihilate the souls of our constitution, this decision will be taken by history now. I remember, it is a matter of history that we believe that Kashmir came to our side because of Pandit Nehru ji. Had there been Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 99 no Redcliff Award, Gurdaspur would not have been given to us and if the principle of majority would have been adopted, then perhaps Kashmir would never ever come to us. But the fact is that we got Gurdaspur through Redcliff Award, we got that linkage and because of that Jammu and Kashmir, came to our side and I remember that Sardar Patel Sahab was the Minister of Home Affairs at that time. He brought Article 370, Sardar Patel Sahab was the person to bring Article 370. At that point the discussion that was going on was that *but ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Sibalji, my suggestion is, like Jawaharlal Nehru. ...(Interruptions)... You listen for a minute, sit down. I will explain. You sit down. ...(Interruptions)... Like Jawaharlal Nehru, Sardar Patel was also our Deputy Prime Minister. Better we avoid controversies because he is no more.
SHRI KAPIL SIBAL: I am just saying that this is part of history. I am not saying anything myself.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Then they will try to say something else! ...(Interruptions)... Go to other issues.
SHRI KAPIL SIBAL: I don’t want to waste the two-three minutes that I have. Sardar Patel was clear that Junagadh must come to India even though the ruler was a Muslim and he wanted to go to Pakistan. Sardar Patel was clear. The Kashmir ruler wanted to come to India and because of Nehruji it happened, We won Kashmir. The point that I was making is the Congress people won Kashmir. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI BHUPENDER YADAV (Rajasthan): Sir, I have an issue.
MR. CHAIRMAN: There can be difference of opinion. Let us leave it. ...(Interruptions)... We are concluding the debate.
SHRI BHUPENDER YADAV: Sir, I have an issue.
SHRI KAPIL SIBAL: Sir, I am not yielding.
MR. CHAIRMAN: He is not yielding. I will allow you later. Bhupender ji, not like this... Kapilji, you are a very senior person. Please move on. Otherwise, this will happen unnecessarily.
SHRI KAPIL SIBAL: I only said that we won Kashmir. Today, you have lost Kashmir.
MR. CHAIRMAN: That is your point, it is okay.
* Expunged as ordered by the Chair. 100 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
SHRI KAPIL SIBAL: We have won Kashmir, you have lost Kashmir. How many people will you name as individual terrorist under the UAPA in Kashmir ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: I will allow you, you don’t worry.
SHRI KAPIL SIBAL: That is what is going to happen. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please you sit down. Ram Narayan ji, you sit down. It is not going on record. Nothing will go on record except whoever I permit. ...(Interruptions)... Bhupender Yadavji, please sit down. You can raise your point of order afterwards. Let him conclude.
SHRI KAPIL SIBAL: This is a thing to mention that you are bringing such a Bill to the constitution and democracy at 11.00 a.m. in the morning and then asking us to discuss on it when we are not even aware of what is written in that Bill. You say that you call it a democracy. ...(Interruptions)... Is this the definition of democracy that without informing, you bring Bill at 11.00 in the morning and then ask to have a discussion on it and decide and it should be a nice debate, how will a nice debate take place? When you do not tell us what is to be kept in the Bill, when you do not give us any notice how will we have a discussion? You know that there is no need to discuss because you have the numbers, you do not even want to have a discussion. There are many such provision in it which are against the law but I do not want to go into that today. I only want to say that how is this debate possible? What do we discuss on this? Secondly, why are you in such a haste? Did you ever consult anyone, did you consult the stakeholders there, did you consult the Members of the Legislature there, did you consult with our political parties and with the opposition? You are going to abrogate Article 370, you are going to abrogate it without consulting because you know that you have numbers, you have figures, numerical data in the House. Is this what democracy means. Will the democracy run on numerical data? You talk about ‘Sabka Sath Sabka Vikas aur Sabka Vishwas’ then, are you keeping this trust on us and lending this support. You will go on alone because you have the figures and leave the country behind. Tomorrow you can alter the boundaries of any State. By carrying out the dissolution of any State, dissolving its assembly. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude.
SHRI KAPIL SIBAL: You can merge any territory with any other and can bring this Bill at 11.00 in the morning.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude, Kapilji. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 101
SHRI KAPIL SIBAL: Sir, I have not spoken even for six minutes. Secondly, I would only like to request that. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI V. VIJAYASAI REDDY (Andhra Pradesh): Sir, just like Sibalji has spoken of the other party, let him ask himself about what they have done in the case of the AP Reorganisation Act. What have they done?
SHRI JAIRAM RAMESH: It went back to the Assembly. The draft was prepared.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Let him conclude. Mr. Reddy, let him conclude. I am also a witness. Kapilji, please conclude. Shri Vijayasai Reddy, I am also a witness.
SHRI KAPIL SIBAL: Sir, I just want to indicate that if you feel that this is a historic day then I believe that many such historic days are going to come in future in your mind. The way you have been talking about the National Register, you have been taking about citizens, let it not be so that you move ahead with the agenda that destroys the foundations of the Constitution.
MR. CHAIRMAN: What is it, Mr. Reddy?
SHRI KAPIL SIBAL: The step you are taking is going to demolish the foundation of the Constitution and today we want to indicate you that we will safeguard the Constitution standing here; you may do whatever you like.
MR. CHAIRMAN: What is it, Mr. Reddy?
SHRIMATI KANTA KARDAM (Uttar Pradesh): you ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Madam, you sit down. you won’t worry, the Constitution is not going to change its place in a couple of minutes. You do not worry, nothing will happen. There is no dearth of intelligent people in the country. Everyone knows what history is? If someone says somethings in the debate, there is no need to immediately react on that.
MR. CHAIRMAN: What is it, Mr. Reddy? What are you saying? I have been told that you have spoken. What is the question that you are asking?
SHRI V. VIJAYASAI REDDY: Sir, today morning, your good self waived off all the relevant rules and allowed this subject. When Derek was speaking, he said you have ‘circumvented’. It is not circumvention. Your good self has waived it off. So, ‘circumvention’ is not a correct word. That has to be expunged and it has to be replaced with ‘waiver’.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, Shrimati Nirmala Sitharaman. 102 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
SHRI BHUPENDER YADAV: Sir,...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Bhupender Yadav, if you have a point of order, then you can speak. Otherwise, don’t reply.
SHRI BHUPENDER YADAV: Sir, I have a Point of Order 238(4). Whenever a Member puts forth his matter in the House, it should not be of the type that it becomes the opinion of the Council. Shri Kapil Sibal ji is a learned Member of the this House but, through you, I would like to say that towards the unity of India and in keeping India unite Bharat Ratna Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel ji has contributed a lot. This is not an expression of the Council, if there is any stand of Congress Party then Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad ji can tell about it, but on behalf of the House we want to admonish the statement made about him. This should be expunged.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shrimati Nirmala Sitharaman. ...(Interruptions)... Please sit down. No, no; I have not allowed you. I called him because you raised it and he quoted a rule. I was going through it. Before my response, you started responding to him. I suggest to the Members not to respond to each other. If you have a problem, you seek my permission and, then, I will look into it.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE; AND THE MINISTER OF CORPORATE AFFAIRS (SHRIMATI NIRMALA SITHARAMAN): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to participate in this debate. It is a historic debate. In fact, it is something which this country has been waiting for the last seventy years. Even as this has been going on since morning, many hon. Members have been receiving messages from different parts of the country saying that they are extremely happy that this Government has taken up this historic step with conviction to enable a greater integration of Jammu and Kashmir into the country.
This is a major step. It is also a step which is a result of a lot of consultations. I know many hon. Members in the opposition asked, ‘Have you had any consultation at all?’ I would like to draw their attention to say under the Manifesto of the BJP, consultations did happen, not just this time. It has been one of the commitments of the party since the time of Jan Sangh. And, Sir, if you take the name of Professor and youngest Vice-Chancellor and Minister Shyama Prasad Mukherjee who was part of the United Ministry headed by Shri Pandit Jawharlal Nehru, who took up this cause and, we all know, he lost his life in a very, very suspicious circumstances, all in the name of keeping one India, one Constitution — one Samvidhan and one Pradhan. So, that is the kind of core belief that Jan Sangh and, subsequently, the BJP has. It is only as a result of constant consultations, discussions with people concerned and even as latest as 2019 Manifesto for the Lok Sabha elections, we Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 103 elaborately mentioned the need for abrogation of Article 370. All this has not gone without consultations. And, therefore, don’t think that we have popped it out or suddenly hatched a rabbit from a cap; not at all. This has been going on for a long time and all of us have been talking about it. This is one thing.
Secondly, haven’t we seen, over the years, very progressive legislations? Some of them have even taken place during the Congress time, like the 73rd and 74th Constitution Amendment Acts. Did they implement effectively from the same time in the rest of the country? No. There had to be a lot of persuasion, in spite of the merit of the issue, to make sure that such progressive legislations which are happening in the entire country are yet to be implemented in Jammu and Kashmir. The one which all of us have been talking about for several years is the equal rights for women, which is not even today being implemented in Jammu and Kashmir! Sir, girls born in Jammu and Kashmir are denied their property rights even as they get married to people settled outside J&K! It is a gross injustice and that gross injustice has never been addressed with sincerity. Had only such kind of injustice been addressed, even before we took it up today, the House would not have to see the scenes that it saw today.
Sir, I can tell you, even with many of us travelling to Jammu and Kashmir, we have seen how SC, ST and Bakarwals about whom all of us speak never got their rights when compared to the SC and ST in the rest of the country. Why should the special status of Jammu and Kashmir start and end with discrimination against women, discrimination against SC, discrimination against ST? If that is the special status, I don’t think any one of us in this House can be proud of that Jammu and Kashmir with a difference with inequalities so profoundly written on its face. At least because of that, hon. Members will forget the difference that they had otherwise, ideologically, and come together today to say that we could not do it, but we are happy that you are doing it. We are with you, while you are doing it.
To give a message to the entire country about the 1994 Resolution passed by the Lok Sabha and this very House that Jammu and Kashmir being an integral part of India, that it is not just Jammu and Kashmir which is with India now, but also that part of Jammu and Kashmir which is under illegal occupation of Pakistan. It was a resolution passed in the Parliament. If that is truly a resolution passed unanimously, shouldn’t we be keeping the letter and spirit of passing of that resolution? So, neither from the point of view of human rights, nor from the point of view of equal rights for women nor from the point of positive, affirmative action for SCs and STs, do we want to talk about Jammu and Kashmir? ... but we want to talk about it because we created this whole hype that the ‘special status’ is so sacrosanct that even if 104 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shrimati Nirmala Sitharaman] it denies human rights, we will be with it. I am sorry, Sir, we have heard several times, people in Ladakh, who live in a very large area, where the population is so sparse, having been demanding that they want a status of Union Territory because it was too difficult to be administered. We have heard it over and over again. But, we did not take any step. Today, I am glad, after what is happening in this House, and later in Lok Sabha, we will be able to meet that aspiration of every Ladakhi for a separate Union Territory for them.
Lastly, I am glad to say that a Union Territory with an elected legislature for Jammu and Kashmir, inclusive of parts of Kashmir that are occupied by Pakistan, and the Union Territory to take care of the needs of Ladakh, from the point of view of the aspirations of the people, from the point of view of development — today we call Kashmir ‘Paradise’; we all want it to be maintained with its pristine beauty; but, not one person is willing to go and invest money, even to build a hotel there to receive the tourists; no investment is happening in Jammu and Kashmir, unless we take this step, I am very grateful that the hon. Prime Minister has guided us, and the hon. Home Minister has brought this Amendment Bill — and, with this development, I am sure the true development and integration of Jammu and Kashmir will happen now onwards. Thank you, Sir.
SHRI JOSE K. MANI (Kerala): Sir, in Article 370 and 35(A), where the terms and conditions for the bilateral treaty that made accession possible, where is the provision for a plebiscite? This is a historic wrong being done to a State, promised autonomy in its working and decisions. The dissolution of the Constituent Assembly makes sure that the President does not need to consult representatives of the people of Jammu and Kashmir. Moreover, Article 3 of the Jammu and Kashmir Constitution declares Jammu and Kashmir to be an integral part of India. In the Preamble to the Constitution, the object of the constitution of Jammu and Kashmir is to further define the existing relationship of the State with the Union of India, as its integral part thereof. Moreover, the people of the State are referred as permanent residents, not citizens. Article 370 is not an issue of integration, but of autonomy. Those who advocate its deletion are more concerned with the uniformity, rather than integration. Much like the current civil agitation in Hong Kong, that is, the influence of the mainland China, we are moving close to creating States, fomenting with anger, and being forcibly made into Union Territories and there are sighs and screams of dissent among its citizens. Why has Section 144 been imposed if the Government is going along with the wishes of the citizens of Jammu and Kashmir? Should it be a cause of separation? Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 105
Let me conclude by saying that the Government should be more concerned about integration than uniformity.
Thank you.
SHRI AMAR PATNAIK (Odisha): Thank you, Sir, for allowing me to make a presentation on this topic.
As has already been spoken, there comes a time in the life of a nation when momentous things happen. And, this is one such momentous thing, one historic thing. But, as rightly said, whether history will judge it in a way that the Government would like to believe that it has brought about a sea change, or, it will be counter- productive, will be judged in future. But, there is definitely one difference that is there in this particular Resolution. In the history of this nation, there have been incidences; there have been moments which have divided the country. But this is one Resolution where people of a particular area are being integrated into the mainstream. Article 370 was basically between Kashmiris and the Indians. This has, actually, brought them together. Now, the question is: Whether Article 370 which was there in Jammu and Kashmir, should that not have been there for the North-Eastern people of India, could that not have been there for Sikkim? So, there is, probably, no justification for Article 370 in the beginning, despite being whatever be the narrative. Now that we have come to a stage of passing the Resolution, the Biju Janata Dal feels that this is a time to move forward. There are two aspects to it. One is the Article 370 abrogation and the second one is Reorganisation. Reorganisation of the State has taken place many times before in this country. Out of the two important things that I have to point out, one is elections. The democratic process should return to Jammu and Kashmir very, very early. The people should believe in the democratic process; only then, the fruits of this change, this historic change, will be reaped by the country.
The second aspect is development, that everyone is talking about, for the Kashmiris. That should reach them. That should not reach to a group of people who burn schools and, at the same time, send their children abroad for studies, to a group of people who garner all the benefits, but do not give benefits tothe people who are, actually, poor, who do not get jobs. So, for this development, it is proposed that the transitional phase, the transitional clauses, which have been written to be implemented within 12 months, 6 months or 9 months, should, actually, get implemented. Only then, the confidence of the Kashmiri people on these changes will be felt. They will, actually, come into the mainstream, into the Indian national flow or the Indian national development process, and all the rules, all the benefits that come to rest of India would probably go to them. Thank you, Sir. 106 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
SHRI VIVEK K. TANKHA (Madhya Pradesh): Sir, I am on a very serious note; while Ghulam Nabiji presented the historical perspective of Kashmir, Chidambaram Sahib presented the constitutional perspective also. I have a perspective which is personal to me and which also has a connect with the historical perspective. I am a Kashmiri pandit, maybe the only Kashmiri pandit in Rajya Sabha today. Over a period of 100 years, we know how Kashmiri pandits migrated out of Kashmir. The last big exodus started after 1990. Since yesterday, the whole night, Kashmiri pandits have not slept. They did not know what is going to happen in Kashmir. This is not a story; this is not a fiction. From all over the world, I was getting telephone calls and messages. The problem that I see now is that we have tried to resolve the issue the BJP way. The BJP way was not the way where stakeholders were taken into confidence, because as Advocate General, I know how stakes are divided. Thereis a Resolution passed by the State Assembly. It is carried to the Parliament. Then, if Parliament says ‘yes’, it goes back to the State. I saw it in Madhya Pradesh. I was Advocate General there. We drafted the law at that time, the 2000 Reorganisation Act. There is a whole process of integration that takes place. Now, I don’t know, you have created Union Territories. Can all the Kashmiri pandits, actually, go back? Will they be able to go back? Maybe, if the stakeholders were consulted, there was better bonhomie in bringing this whole enactment or doing this legislative action; that may have been possible. During the lunch break, I was talking to them again. All of them are skeptical whether they can actually go back! All I am saying is, maybe, we missed out on a very historic consultative process in this whole issue. If the Assembly had been in session there, the Assembly could have been taken into confidence. If it was done with the consent of all, which is what the Constitution envisages, people outside and the people who are yearning to go back to their homelands would have been happier. Thank you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Prakash Javadekar. ...(Interruptions)... Please focus on the issue. ...(Interruptions)...
THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, FOREST AND CLIMATE CHANGE; AND THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI PRAKASH JAVADEKAR): Hon’ble Chairman Sir, I am happy that this House is doing a historic of job today. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Whoever is missed out and whoever has given the name, I am going through that. ...(Interruptions)... Everybody has got an angle. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI PRAKASH JAVADEKAR: I have the Ministry of information and Broadcasting with me that is why first of all I give the information. ...(Interruptions)... Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 107
MR. CHAIRMAN: What is wrong? Why are we making such comments? If the Minister has gone to the other House, what is wrong? He has not gone to his house? ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI PRAKASH JAVADEKAR: The news is that there is peace in Kashmir and people support the measures taken today. This step is being welcomed by the whole nation and throughout the world because the injustice that has been done to the people of Kashmir in the past 70 years is being undone today. So people are welcoming it. For three years I was Minister of Education. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please don’t make comments while sitting. We are not doing justice to ourselves.
SHRI PRAKASH JAVADEKAR: Kapil ji also knows that Right to Education is not in force there. So many such laws were not implemented. Here 25 per cent admission in the private schools is given to the children of poor family. They get admission in good schools, private schools, free of cost and they get the benefit of good education. This painful question has always been coming to my mind that what sin has been committed by the students of Kashmir that they are not getting this benefit. Not one, there are many such laws.
As some of our colleagues said here about reservation that the reservation of Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes, Bakkarwalas and others was not given there. Why they did not get it? ...(Interruptions)...
THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD): The reservation for Scheduled Castes is available.
SHRI PRAKASH JAVADEKAR: It is there for the Scheduled Castes, but why it is not provided to various categories. ...(Interruptions)... Because I am telling you, it is political ...(Interruptions)... Just a minute ...(Interruptions)... As my colleagues stated that about Article 370, it was stated at that time that it is a transient provision, it will come to an end. How much more time is required after 70 years? Hon’ble Chairman Sir, the most important thing is that this Article 370 has kept Jammu and Kashmir separate from the entire nation. What can be more unfortunate than this that the facilities that are available to citizens of our country and the benefits of law they get, those are not available to our brothers and sisters of Kashmir. How can we allow two kinds of legislations, two symbols and two heads in one nation? Why this separatism grew up, at least once you should introspect and analyse it. The way you made separate provision for Jammu and Kashmir, it led to a new the feeling of separatism, and this is also the reason for that, we should understand this. 108 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Prakash Javadekar] 5.00 p.m. There was a Constituent Assembly in India also while framing the constitution but as soon as the Parliament was established, the Constituent Assembly ceased to exist. At that time no one said that injustice has been done. That is why if something which is not injustice for India, when, it is being implemented in Jammu-Kashmir today, how come that it will be injustice? Kapil ji is aware of this fact that after the implementation of RTE, the untrained teachers were required to pursue D. Ed. course for two years. Today we have imparted this training to 44 lakh teachers throughout the country. Now, they are well-equipped. But unfortunately I could not impart this training to the teachers of Kashmir.
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: D.Ed. and B. Ed. are there for the past 60 years.
SHRI PRAKASH JAVADEKAR: Sir, the information is with me also. All of them have not acquired D.Ed. and B.Ed. there ...(Interruptions)... The people and students of Kashmir? ...(Interruptions)...
Shri Ghulam NaBi Azad: Jammu and Kashmir was the first to have B.Ed and M.Ed. Ask your PMO. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please, please ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI PRAKASH JAVADEKAR: You please see RTE. The teachers who have to teach students upto 5th standard, it is mandatory for them to do D.El.Ed, but they were not there. ...(Interruptions)... I wish to inform you that the students of Kashmir want to study. We give Prime Minister Scholarship. 5000 scholarships are given from rupees 1.5 lakh to 4 lakh so that they can get education at good places in the country. When we communicate with the students for 5000 scholarships, then nearly 40 thousand students attend it. All of them wish to obtain scholarship, that is why we are going to increase the number of scholarships.
Sir, through you, I have one question to all the Members of the House, can anybody give the reply that the law that is applicable for all the citizens of the country through which the people of the entire country are getting benefits, then what is the fault of the people of Kashmir that they should not get the benefit of that law? When all the citizens of the country are equal, the law is uniform for all, then if that is applied in Kashmir, what can be the objection in this? The similar law will be applicable in Kashmir as it is there in the whole country.
†The speech delivered by the hon. Member in Urdu is available in the Floor Version. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 109
Kashmir is a very good State of our country, it should also get equal opportunity for progress, we should understand this and that is why this Bill has been brought here today. Many Parties have given their support but three-four parties have not supported this. I am happy to see the scenario today. I wish to say that please you yourself see the reaction in the next 24 hours? I am confident that if this Bill comes in Lok Sabha tomorrow, then your parties will certainly change their stand and will come with the feelings and aspirations of the people. The aspiration for progress is also there in the people. Today India has changed. The youth and the people of India want progress. They want peace and progress, not terrorism more importantly not separatism. Separatists were arrested, their security was reduced, there security was reduced, then where was demonstration or agitation against that? There was no agitation because the people of Kashmir are not with the separatists. The people of Kashmir always want good education, peace and progress. In order to establish that peace and ensure progress, these three-four Bills have been brought. It appears to me that they will prove milestones in history of the country in future. So, we all should support them and I appeal to all of you to for the same. Thank you very much.
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN (West Bengal): Mr. Chairman, Sir, it is. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. Derek. ...(Interruptions)... Please. I have permitted him. I am presiding over the House and also deciding. Why are you worrying? Yes, Mr. Derek.
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN: Thank you, Sir. I wish to quote two rules. The first is Rule 69(2). The Bill on the content about constitutional immorality —and why do we bring the constitutional immorality and the procedural harakiri? Sir, the procedural harakiri refers to Rule 69(2) because, as you said, you gave us the time, but in that limited time we could not move any other motion.
MR. CHAIRMAN: That has been already addressed. We have given four hours for the amendments.
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN: Sir, now Rule 258; I must bring this to your notice.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please don’t raise issues in between unnecessarily.
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN: No, Sir; I have a genuine problem. I am concerned about Members of Parliament from my party who left Kolkata at 6.00 a.m. to reach here by 8.30 a.m. to participate in the voting, but they have been diverted to Amritsar because of troop movement in Delhi.
MR. CHAIRMAN: So what? That happens to other people too sometimes. 110 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN: Sir, please protect me. Delay this by half-an-hour so that our MPs can come because procedural harakiri is happening and constitutional immorality is happening.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please do not make sweeping remarks. You have made a request. I would consider that. Now, the Minister has to come from the other House. So, we would have Special Mentions now, as I said in the morning, after that, we can resume. ...(Interruptions)... We have got eight-nine names here. It cannot be one side alone.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Ram Gopal ji, do you want to say anything? Please go ahead.
PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV (Uttar Pradesh): Sir, I had asked for extra time of 2 minutes. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Please speak. ...(Interruptions)... Please ...(Interruptions)... Everybody is speaking. What is this? ...(Interruptions)... Your Party’s allotted time is over. ...(Interruptions)... Talk to your Parliamentary Affairs Minister. ...(Interruptions)... I have to deal with various Members in the House. ...(Interruptions)...
PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV: Thank you, Sir. I was listening, just now Javadekar Sahab was speaking. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, I was listening to him. ...(Interruptions)... He has been a very responsible Minister of the country and he continues to be a Minister even now.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The House and the Chairman is at liberty to alter the timings and also adjust according to the situation that is required. Please understand this. ...(Interruptions)... Ram Gopal ji, you please speak.
PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV: Sir, just now Javadekar Sahab was speaking. He has also been in the Government for the last 11 years, he would have done something then itself. He is levelling allegations against all that nothing has been done so far. For 5-6 years, 1 month 13 days Atalji was in power and for 5 years. Modi ji has been in power. Both of them are senior leaders ...(Interruptions)... were they in power for the said duration or not? Then don’t make allegations against all. You are also part of that.
Secondly Sir, I had raised one issue in the morning and the Minister of Home Affairs had given a satisfactory reply to that. I was satisfied, but I want to know one thing. Hon’ble Law Minister is here. He should enlighten us that now you have made Union Territories then there will be written 28 states in place of 29 States and 9 Union Territories in place of 7 in the Indian Constitution or not? Will it be Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 111 written causally or will you write it, in schedule one, in the first schedule after amending the constitution? That’s why I want to know this.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The Minister of Home Affairs is not here now. It can be replied when he comes. ...(Interruptions)... The Law Minister is here.
PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV: Sir, I have asked this question from the Law Minister only.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Ravi Shankarji, some enlightenment has to be there.
THE MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE; THE MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS; AND THE MINISTER OF ELECTRONICS AND INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY (SHIR RAVI SHANKAR PRASAD): Sir, Hon’ble Ram Gopal ji is an experienced parliamentarian, a senior leader and he is in the House for long. When three states were formed, at that time I was also in the House and you were also there. Jharkhand, Uttarakhand and Chhattisgarh, these three states were formed with three separate laws. After the formation of those three states, the number of states increased in India and in the Appendix. As a result of passing the law by the Parliament these three states were formed and consequently the schedule was amended. So, for the amendment that the number of States are 29 or 28, constitutional amendment is not required, because this is clear in Section 3 ...(Interruptions)...
PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV: I am satisfied.
SHRI RAVI SHANKAR PRASAD: Thank you, thank you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We must really have such doubts to be raised meaningfully and then some response must come from the other side. This is the way we have to conduct ourselves. There is nothing wrong in it.
SHRI RAVI SHANKAR PRASAD: Sir, generally Ram Gopal ji, accepts my submission. This is my good fortune.
MR. CHAIRMAN: He is a gentle man, that is a problem! Now, I am taking up Zero Hour, giving a break to the Legislative Business for some time. After that, we will revert to the Legislative Business. Please try to understand. First name is of Dr. Sonal Mansingh, then Shrimati Shanta Chhetri, Shri Vijay Goel, Shri Ram Kumar Kashyap, Shri Rakesh Sinha, Shrimati Vandana Chavan...
KUMARI SELJA (Haryana): Sir, Kalitaji is number one. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI JAIRAM RAMESH (Karnataka): Sir, you decided at 10.30 a.m. and at 11.00 a.m. you announced his resignation. What happened between 10.30 a.m. and 11.00 a.m.? 112 Matters raised [RAJYA SABHA] with Permission
MR. CHAIRMAN: For information, I will tell you. I waited upto 10.30 a.m. But some of the notices which were given yesterday and Friday, I would have decided them beforehand also. Shri Jairam Ramesh is extra intelligent.
That is a problem. Sometimes, I am not able to cope with him. Please remember, on Friday, I said that whatever notices were given on Friday they would be valid for Monday also. You know my observation from the Chair at that time. Secondly, today morning, we had sent a Bulletin that this will be taken up in the evening. That is also there in today’s Bulletin. He has now ceased to be a Member of the House on his own. He quit on his own. I also enquired from him. Now, Dr. Sonal Mansingh.
DR. SONAL MANSINGH (Nominated): Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to speak on this historic day on this important debate.
MR. CHAIRMAN: No, no, you have given notice on “Two schemes for perennially providing natural mineral water and unpolluted water for our cities.” We are not on Kashmir as of now. This is Zero Hour.
DR. SONAL MANSINGH: Okay, Sir. But, I will speak on art and culture. Then, I will connect it to...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please get ready before that. Is Shrimati Shanta Chhetri there? You come back, Dr. Sonal Mansingh, check up; I will give you an opportunity.
DR. SONAL MANSINGH: I would like to connect the entire issue. I am not talking on the issue. I want to talk about the art and culture traditions of our country once again.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please.
DR. SONAL MANSINGH: Sir, what is it!
MR. CHAIRMAN: You can only speak on a matter which is before the House. I will call you. Please sit down. Someone should tell her also what exactly the subject is. She might have given two, three notices. She may have forgotten. Now, Shri Vijay Goel.
————
MATTERS RAISED WITH PERMISSION
Problems of unauthorised colonies and constructions in Delhi
SHRI VIJAY GOEL (Rajasthan): Hon’ble Chairman Sir, I want to draw the attention of the House to the problems of Delhi. Matters raised [5 August, 2019] with Permission 113
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Minister please take your seat.
SHRI VIJAY GOEL: The problems have increased manifold in Delhi and unauthorised construction in Delhi is the root cause of this problem. Which is going on unabated. The Supreme Court had itself set up a Committee under the chairmanship of Mr. Bhure Lal but despite the recommendations of that committee, even today unauthorised constructions are taking place in Delhi. It is very necessary for all of us to ponder over this. Today Delhi is expanding in haphazard manner. Where ever you go in Delhi, today there are 1797 unauthorised colonies, where the problems relating to electricity, water supply, roads, parks, schools and community halls etc. are there. Delhi Government had to determine their boundaries, but till today it has not been done. Their boundaries were to be fixed that has not been done. Their lay outs were to be prepared which has not been done. On the one hand we are not in a position to provide facilities in unauthorised colonies, on the other hand new unauthorised constructions are going on day and night. You see, no one can do any construction activity in unauthorised manner in Noida, Gurgaon, Faridabad or Bhiwadi, but here it appears to me that all the agencies are seeking and master plan is being flouted. Today it is becoming difficult to come on roads in Delhi. It is directly affecting the pollution here. Delhi tops the ranking in the country as far as pollution is concerned. It directly impacts the infrastructure, water supply, electricity and civic amenities, but we are not expressing our concern. I think that there is need for the Central Government to pay special attention to this. Delhi is the capital, barring lutyen area, everywhere smaller settlements and narrow laws have come up in Delhi and the problems are so enormous in these areas that it is very difficult to walk on the road. The problem of parking is a big issue in theentire Delhi. People do not find space for parking. In future people will fight overthis issue of parking that why have you parked your car here? The next war will be on the issue of water. I think the Central Government should see that all the agencies should collectively stop these unauthorised constructions so that the common people get facilities. In Delhi there are 1797 unauthorised colonies which I call self made colonies because DDA and Housing Board did not pay any attention to them during the period of earlier Governments. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Vijay ji, please conclude.
SHRI VIJAY GOEL: Due to this, these problems have increased. Their regularization is immensely needed.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Ram Kumar Kashyap — absent. Shri Rakesh Sinha absent. Shrimati Vandana Chavan. This is about ‘Destruction of Aravali Hills’. 114 Matters raised [RAJYA SABHA] with Permission
Destruction of the Aravali Hills
SHRIMATI VANDANA CHAVAN (Maharashtra): Yes, sir. In fact, I had given it two days back, so, I was not sure that it is going to come up today. All the same, Sir, in the last few days, we have been constantly seeing newspapers reports showing that Aravali hills around Delhi are being totally destructed. Sir, quarrying is happening and stones are being used for construction purposes. We have to realise that hills and mountains of any area are absolutely important natural features of our country and these cannot be destroyed. Over the years, as stones are being quarried, we also see that the green cover is disappearing and the wildlife is disappearing. Delhi is already facing the problem of air pollution and this dust, which is being generated while cutting the stones, is also adding to the air pollution of the city. Therefore, I urge upon the Government to look into this matter. Hills and mountains, no matter where they are, should be treated as natural features and should be treated as heritage. And, we have to make sure that we safeguard them. I urge upon the Government to look into this and make sure that we do not destroy our natural features. Thank you, Sir.
DR. SUBHASH CHANDRA (Haryana): Sir, I associate myself with the matter raised by Shrimati Vandana Chavan.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Mohd. Ali Khan, not present. Shri R.K. Sinha.
Shri R.K. Sinha (Bihar): Hon’ble Chairman Sir, I am going to raise a very important issue through Special Mention. About air pollution many reports of various agencies are published regularly in media and they are presenting a scary picture of air pollution. In these reports it is clearly mentioned that as a result of air pollution many people are dying and the figures of these deaths are in lakhs per annum. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: R.K. Sinhaji, you are reading the Special Mention. Right now, I have called you to speak on the matter that you have given for Zero Hour for mandatory training in schools for life-saving skills in disaster management.
SHRI R.K. SINHA: I am sorry, Sir.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Afterwards, the Special Mentions will also be taken up. Now, you can speak on the Zero Hour mention. As two days have gone by, people may have forgotten. After Friday, Saturday and Sunday, sometimes, it is difficult to remember.
For Members, who are making comments, I would like to say that my ear catches everything. There is no provision for Zero Hour and Special Mentions. It Matters raised [5 August, 2019] with Permission 115 is I who took the initiative and I am conducting it during the extended Session. Extended session is only for Government Business. Please understand. If you are not interested; it’s okay, no problem. But, there are Members who are working hard and giving notices. Now, R.K. Sinhaji, please continue.
Need for mandatory training in schools for life-saving skills in Disaster Management
SHRI R. K. SINHA: Hon’ble Chairman Sir, this notice of my zero-hour was listed many times, but due to various reasons it could not be taken up. I am grateful to you that my zero-hour notice has been taken up today. Through this zero-hour notice I would like to present the idea of introduction of selfcare and Protection Module in the curricula of children and adolescents. If we turn over the pages of the newspapers of any part of the country then perhaps there will be hardly any day when we do not come across the news of deaths of small children due to drowning or poisoning, burning, animal’s bite, road accidents. There are many young students who are careful in vicious cycle of higher cut-off marks and cut-throat competition and as a result they get depressed. They become victim of serious psychological diseases like depression and anxiety and they face such problems. The entire family has to face these problems. One of the main reasons for the untimely death of our children and adolescents due to above mentioned unnatural reasons is the absence of self care and Protection Module in their curricula. There is absence of this in their education system, so the children should be taught from very early age, from pre-school, to school, home tuition etc how to tackle the situation in the event of a natural calamity or unforeseen circumstance.
Sir, through you, I appeal to the Government, especially to the Ministry of Home Affairs, the Ministry of Disaster Management and the Ministry of Human Resource Development to include this self care and protection module in the curricula of primary schools and even in secondary schools for young children. Thank you very much.
MR. CHAIRMAN: This Zero Hour submission is about “Menace of female foeticide”.
Menace of female foeticide in the country
SHRI MANAS RANJAN BHUNIA (West Bengal): Sir, through you, I want to draw the kind attention of the hon. Minister of Health and Family Welfare and the entire House. We are facing a serious social, medical and mental crisis in our society and this is a case of individuality also. Recently, it has been observed that the number of female foeticide is increasing in our country. The evidence is the sex 116 Matters raised [RAJYA SABHA] with Permission
[Shri Manas Ranjan Bhunia] ratio in the country. There is a deep gap in the sex ratio in many States. This is not the condition in all the States, but, in many States, the condition is the same with regard to the sex ratio. Recently, a report came about Uttarakhand and Uttarkashi area. In 132 villages, 216 child births took place. Out of which, not a single female child was there. After that report came, the villagers, the social scientists, the medical officers, district administration, all of them went to that place and surveyed. What is happening there! We have a legal perspective of Union Government as well as the State Government that the detection of sex of foetus through ultra sonography is illegal and it is a punishable offence. But, even after that, this illegal process of sex determination is continuing with the help of some private ultrasound clinics. Some doctors, some quacks in villages, are also involved in this. They are detecting the female foetus and killing her. The mentality of the male and particularly the mentality of the family is not in favour of birth of a female child. So, I urge upon the Government, through you to kindly give a note from the Ministry of Health and Child Welfare to all the States to be very concentric on the investigation as to why our female child is not progressing in number. The family, the husband and wife, the society and the village, they are all against the birth of a female child. This is a serious issue in our country and we should change this mentality and we should stop it and intervene in a way that we could save the female child in our country.
SHRIMATI VIJILA SATHYANANTH (Tamil Nadu): Sir, I associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
SHRI SURESH GOPI (Nominated): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
SHRI VAIKO (Tamil Nadu): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter re- raised by the hon. Member.
SHRI ABIR RANJAN BISWAS (West Bengal): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
DR. L. HANUMANTHAIAH (Karnataka): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
SHRIMATI VANDANA CHAVAN (Maharashtra): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
SHRI PRASHANTA NANDA (Odisha): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member. Matters raised [5 August, 2019] with Permission 117
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please send your names. The next speaker is Shri Prabhakar Reddy Vemireddy, not present. Now, the next speaker is Shri Jairam Ramesh.
Urgent need to implement directive of the National Green Tribunal on protection of Western Ghats
SHRI JAIRAM RAMESH (Karnataka): Sir, I wish to draw the Government’s attention to the urgent need to protect the ecologically valuable, but, critically endangered Western Ghats. I hope my good friends, Mr. Sadananda Gowda and Mr. Suresh Gopi will associate themselves with this. In August, 2011, the Western Ghats Ecology Expert Panel (WGEEP) set up under the Chairmanship of Shri Madhav Gadgil, India’s preeminent ecological scientist, submitted its recommendations to the Government suggesting that 64 per cent of the Western Ghats area be notified as ecologically sensitive. Thereafter, two years later, another Committee Chaired by the eminent space scientist Dr. Kasturirangan, reduced the area for ecological protection from 64 per cent to 37 per cent. But, more importantly, denied any role to democratically elected local panchayats. The problem is that the Government of India is now using the Kasturirangan Committee in its discussions with the States; Gujarat, Maharashtra, Goa, Karnataka, Kerala and Tamil Nadu. Now, this is disastrous not only because the area under protection is being reduced, but also, because the local panchayats and Nagar palikas are going to be denied their say, when it comes to environmental issues. Therefore, Sir, I urge upon the Ministry of Environment, Forest and Climate Change, to reject the methodology and conclusions of the Kasturirangan Committee and go back to the original Gadgil Commission for notifying ecologically sensitive areas. This is very important for livelihood and water security in local areas. Sir, the unprecedented floods in Kerala, last year, and in parts of Karnataka demonstrates very clearly the need to protect the Western Ghats lock, stock and barrel. Sir, my demand is to reject the Kasturirangan Committee and go back to the earlier Gadgil Committee recommendations. Thank you.
SHRI K.C. RAMAMURTHY (Karnataka): Sir, I associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
SHRI SURESH GOPI (Nominated): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
SHRI VAIKO (Tamil Nadu): Sir, I support the Kasturirangan Committee and not the Gadgil Committee.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, Shri Vaiko to speak on the issue of proposed dumping of nuclear waste in the Kudankulam Atomic Plant.
SHRI VAIKO: Sir, kindly permit me to raise my Zero Hour mention tomorrow. 118 Matters raised [RAJYA SABHA] with Permission
Need for introduction and passing of the Women’s Reservation Bill
SHRI SASMIT PATRA (Odisha): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak in the Zero Hour on the Women’s Reservation Bill.
Sir, people might be confused as to why I am raising the Women’s Reservation issue. This was the first matter which I raised as my first submission on 8th ofJuly, after I took oath on 4th July. Sir, the reason is that the Session is about to end in the next three days, and, even if it is extended, probably by this week. Sir, we have been passing many historic Bills. Today, we are talking about reorganization of Jammu and Kashmir, we are talking of scrapping of Article 370. We have done a lot of things. We have talked about Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, we have talked about Motor Vehicles Bill, we have talked about Companies Amendment Bill and we have talked about a lot of other things but the fact is that the issue of empowerment of women, on which all the political parties went to election this year, is sadly forgotten. I would take this opportunity to remind the Government, though it is a historic day in terms of Jammu and Kashmir, fifty per cent of India still needs Women’s Reservation Bill for the sake of women’s empowerment.
Sir, as I also mentioned in my first submission on 8th of July, and, I thank you for your appreciation, how long we will have to wait for the Women’s Reservation Bill? Will it again come to the House around the elections in 2024? Therefore, may I request, through you, to the Government, while it wants to create history on various fronts, and, rightly so, I do not deny them that, let them make history by, at least, providing an assurance to the House that yes, if not in this Session, at least, in the Winter Session, the Women’s Reservation Bill will come? That would be truly historic, and, that would be women’s empowerment in true sense. Thank you.
SHRI VAIKO: Sir, I associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
SHRI K.C. RAMAMURTHY (Karnataka): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
SHRI PRASANNA ACHARYA (Odisha): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
SHRI P. L. PUNIA (Uttar Pradesh): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
SHRI SUSHIL KUMAR GUPTA (NCT of Delhi): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
SHRIMATI SAROJINI HEMBRAM (Odisha): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member. Matters raised [5 August, 2019] with Permission 119
SHRI A.K. SELVARAJ (Tamil Nadu): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
SHRIMATI VIJILA SATHYANANTH (Tamil Nadu): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
SHRIMATI JHARNA DAS BAIDYA (Tripura): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
SHRIMATI AMBIKA SONI (Punjab): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
SHRI R. K. SINHA (Bihar): Sir, I also associate myself with the matter raised by the hon. Member.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, please send slips. Shri C.M. Ramesh, Ms. Saroj Pandey. Those members who give their names remain present in the House and then they leave the House in between, they should learn something from Mr. Motilal Vora ji. I was really worried in the morning when all our Congress friends were squatting here, the old man because he could not sit, kept standing there. I was feeling sorry for him. But, still he was there. Even now, he is here. We should all really emulate such examples of senior people for becoming a good Parliamentarian. Now, Shri Ram Kumar Kashyap.
Non-disbursal of claims by insurance companies
SHRI RAM KUMAR KASHYAP (Haryana): Sir, through you, I want to draw the attention of the Government towards an important issue related to the life insurance companies. ...(Interruptions)...
Sir, several life insurance companies are functioning in our country. When the policies are given by them to the customers then many facts are not explained clearly by these companies. For example- LIC, Tata AIA Life Insurance Companies. In order to keep their policy operational, the customers have to pay the installments for a minimum period of three years. If due to any reason he does not pay all his installments, then his policy lapses and he does not get any money consequently lakhs-crores of rupees remain with these companies and the hard earned money of the policy holders goes in vain.
Therefore, through you, I would request the Government that if due to any reason the policy holder fails to make complete payment of installments then he should be paid back the amount that he has deposited. The minimum time-limit of three years fixed by the companies does not seem practical and hence that should also be discontinued. Thank you.
———— 120 Special [RAJYA SABHA] Mentions
MESSAGE FROM LOK SABHA–Contd.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Message from Lok Sabha.
The Transgender Persons (Protection of Rights) Bill, 2019
SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, I have to report to the House the following message received from the Lok Sabha, signed by the Secretary-General of the Lok Sabha:-
“In accordance with the provisions of rule 96 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Lok Sabha, I am directed to enclose the Transgender Persons (Protection of Rights) Bill, 2019, as passed by Lok Sabha, at its sitting held on the 5th August, 2019.”
I lay a copy of the Bill on the Table.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Derek, what is your complaint?
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN: I am waiting for the Bill. My Members have landed.
MR. CHAIRMAN: It will take some time.
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN: The flight has landed.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, please take your seats. Should I take up Special Mentions for some time or start the reply?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: You can start.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, my suggestion is that you lay Special Mentions on the Table.
————
*SPECIAL MENTIONS
Demand to issue identity cards to all the Handicraft Artisans of Odisha and share the data of the same with the Government of Odisha
SHRIMATI SAROJINI HEMBRAM (Odisha): Mr. Chairman, Sir, the issue that I would like to raise is regarding provision of identity cards to the handicraft artisans of our State, Odisha.
Sir, identity cards are being issued by the Office of the Development Commissioner (Handicrafts), Government of India, based on a prescribed format. I
*Laid on the Table. Special [5 August, 2019] Mentions 121 would suggest that a complete exercise must be undertaken to issue such identity cards to all the handicraft artisans of Odisha, so that related developmental plans and projects of the State could be implemented.
I would urge upon the Government to take necessary steps to cover all the handicraft artisans of Odisha in the year 2019-20 and issue identity cards to them. Also, the database must be shared with the Handloom, Textiles and Handicraft Department, Government of Odisha.
Demand to formulate and implement suitable measures for proper disposal and recycling of Lithiumion batteries
SHRI MAHESH PODDAR (Jharkhand): Sir, the batteries used in the e-rikshaws, mobile phones, laptops and other electronic devices are lithium ion batteries. They are more efficient, in both charging and discharging, than lead acid batteries, but the main issue with these lithium ion batteries is that they contain chemicals that are highly toxic and highly reactive in nature and hence their proper disposal and recycling is necessary.
Hon. Chairman, in the light of the aforesaid environmental concerns and hazards posed by the lithium ion batteries, I would like to raise this issue on the floor of the House and urge the Government to formulate and implement suitable measures for their proper disposal and recycling.
Demand to stop the killing of elephants for consumption of their meat
SHRI AHAMED HASSAN (West Bengal): Sir, a new trend is being seen in North-Eastern States of Mizoram and Nagaland. It has been found that at some places in these two States the locals are eating elephant meat after killing the elephant and the entire village is partaking the meat. Recently, near Litami village in Central Nagaland an elephant was first shot dead, then after peeling off its skin its meatwas equally distributed to each household of the village. Earlier a domesticated elephant was also killed near Kanhmoon forest range in West Mizoram and its meat was distributed among and consumed by the villagers. There is no accurate information regarding the death of this elephant.
Sir, if this trend of eating elephant meat rises it will lead to many problems. There is yet no research about the benefits and harms to human body caused by eating elephant meat. Elephants are respected throughout India. Elephants are also associated with many gods and goddesses. Elephants should not be killed like this.
Therefore, I urge the Government to take necessary steps to protect elephants. 122 Special [RAJYA SABHA] Mentions
Demand to take steps to increase participation of women in work force
SHRI P. L. PUNIA (Uttar Pradesh): Sir, I wish to draw your attention towards women labourers. As per the NSSO report of 2011-12 labour participation of women in villages and cities was 35.8 per cent and 20.5 per cent respectively, while as per Periodic Labour Force Survey of 2017-18 the figure stands at 24.6 per cent and 20.4 per cent in villages and cities. Thus, women participation in villages has gone down by 11 per cent and in comparison to 2004-05 it is down by almost 20 per cent. The constant decline in their participation is a matter of concern. Women participation in agricultural activity is 13.9 per cent and of them the number of women is maximum among small and medium farmers who mainly are landless and sharecroppers. In the age bracket of 25 to 54 years, 29.1 per cent of women in India are labourers, while in the same age bracket the corresponding figure for men is 97.8 per cent. If women get adequate opportunity they also possess the capability like men to take the country forward. A separate national policy for single women is essential to be made so that they can get employment and rear their children as well as can protect their dignity.
Therefore, through you, I would like to request that a strategy be chalked out to provide more and more opportunities to women and to make them equal to men. Besides, the Government should formulate a separate national policy for upliftment of single women. Along with this, the sharecroppers and landless farmers should also be included in the ‘Kisan Samman Yojana.’
Demand to reserve the seats for Odisha students in the National Law University at Cuttack
SHRI PRASANNA ACHARYA (Odisha): Sir, there are altogether 19 National Law Universities in the country functioning in different States. The National Law University at Cuttack in Odisha was set up in 2009 and has been producing high quality students. Many students of caliber but hailing from lower middle-class family intend to take this course but cannot afford to pursue their studies outside the State because of financial and other family reasons. Out of the 19 Universities, 18 Universities in the country have the provision of 25 per cent reservation of seats for the students belonging to that particular State except Cuttack Law University in Odisha. The reason is best known to University authorities. The Odisha Government has been requesting the University to make provision for reservation for Odisha students but so far without any result. It is argued that reservation of this kind may impact upon the brand value of the University. If the same system does not affect the brand value of other Universities, how it does affect the brand value Special [5 August, 2019] Mentions 123 of Cuttack University is beyond anybody’s understanding. Policy of reservation in Central Universities should be uniform. It cannot vary from institution to institution and State to State. When we are chanting the mantra of Ek Rashtra Ek Niti, why do we follow different policies in educational institutions especially in Universities in regard to reservation? I request the HRD Ministry to take up the matter and impress upon the said University to consider reservation for Odisha students as is done in other law universities.
Demand to set up the Coast Guard Academy in Mangaluru, Karnataka
SHRI K.C. RAMAMURTHY (Karnataka): Sir, being a multi-mission organisation and conducting round-the-year real life operations, the Indian Coast Guard is playing a pivotal role in securing our territorial waters. Karnataka is a State which has 320 kilometres of coastline between Mangalore and Karvar.
After Mumbai attacks, the Government of India decided to strengthen the Coast Guard by tripling its assets, force and infrastructure. In pursuance of this decision, the Government of Karnataka sent proposal for setting up of Coast Guard Academy in Mangaluru, as it is strategically located. The Academy was proposed to be developed in 160 acres of land, and the High-Powered Committee of Government of Karnataka also cleared this proposal. After this, the then Defence Minister visited Mangaluru and inspected the site in 2017. The Minister assured that Academy would be set up very soon. It is two years since the Defence Minister visited the site. But, proposal, I understand, has not moved even an inch. The Chief Minister of Karnataka had also written a letter in July, 2018, to the Defence Minister for setting up of this Academy. But, so far, no approval from the Ministry of Defence has come.
The Government of Karnataka is requesting to set up the Academy due to the strategic advantage that the place has. If the Government of India delays setting up of the Academy, how can the objective of securing our territorial waters be achieved?
In view of the above, I request the hon. Minister of Defence to take cognizance of this request and take steps to set up the Coast Guard Academy in Mangaluru of Karnataka.
Demand to increase minimum pension upto ` 3000/- per month under the Employees Pension Schemes (EPS) 1995
SHRIMATI VIJILA SATHYANANTH (Tamil Nadu): Sir, under the Employees Pension Scheme (EPS), 1995, a minimum pension of ` 1,000 per month is given 124 Special [RAJYA SABHA] Mentions
[Shrimati Vijila Sathyananth] to pensioners since the year 2014. There are around six million pensioners, out of which, about four million are getting less than ` 1,500 per month. Of these, 1.8 million are the existing beneficiaries under the minimum pension of ` 1,000. The Government has pension funds of about ` 3 lakh crore. If employees are members of the Employees Provident Fund scheme, they are automatically enrolled into the EPS scheme. Twelve per cent of the employees’ salary every month goes to the EPF account while 12 per cent of the employer’s contribution is divided into 3.67 per cent for EPF, 8.33 per cent for EPS, 0.5 per cent for EDLI and rest for administrative charges. Even, the Central Government contributes 1.16 per cent of the employee’s basic salary plus daily allowance.
The All-India EPS-95 Pensioners Sangharsh Samiti have been demanding for long that the minimum monthly pension should be raised to anywhere between ` 3,000 and ` 7,500.
The recent announcement of a guaranteed pension of ` 3000 to 100 million unorganised workers has further build up pressure before the EPFO to increase the minimum pension.
A parliamentary panel had last year asked the Government to assess EPS, 1995 and consider revision of the minimum monthly pension saying that the social security benefit was too meagre to fulfill even the basic needs.
Sir, I appeal to the Government to raise the minimum pension to ` 3,000 per month will benefit around four million workers in India.
Demand to remove encroachments from water bodies and choosing crops according to water availability to preserve groundwater
DR. VIKAS MAHATME (Maharashtra): Sir, we all are aware that water is essential for life. Unfortunately, it is also one of the most ill-treated commodities in India. According to a forecast by the Asian Development Bank, India will have a water deficit of 50 per cent by 2030. In India, a quarter of the world’s groundwater is extracted annually, the highest in the world, which is greater than that pumped up by China and the United States combined.
Besides, in the recently released Composite Water Management Index of NITI Aayog, it is clearly stated that the National Capital and other cities in India will run out of groundwater by 2020. And, they have identified encroachment of water bodies as the ‘major cause’ of flash floods in the past one and a half decades. On top of this, of the identified 5,23,816 water bodies, 51 per cent of Karnataka, 40 Special [5 August, 2019] Mentions 125 per cent of Rajasthan and 32 per cent of Andhra Pradesh’s water bodies were found ‘not in use’ any more.
Taking into consideration the seriousness of the problem confronting water bodies, it is important to draw conclusions from successful local and international initiatives like rejuvenation of Argan Lake in Belagavi, Bailwad lake in Bailhongal, works done by Rajendra Singh in Rajasthan, Jordan’s traditional system HIMA and implement it countrywide for their revival and management. Also, the Government could develop policies to determine which crops should be grown in which region according to the water availability.
SHRI SHIV PRATAP SHUKLA (Uttar Pradesh): Sir, I associate with the Special Mention raised by the hon. Member.
Demand to issue advisory to the States to post the police force as per their sanctioned strength
DR. ASHOK BAJPAI (Uttar Pradesh): Sir, I know that law and order and crime control are state subjects. The strength of posted police force is far less than the sanctioned strength. The states which have less number of posted police force than the sanctioned strength are more crime prone. Therefore, in order to improve law and order situation, the states should be advised to recruit and post police force as per the sanctioned strength. I would like to say that according to Bureau of Police Research and Development, the total sanctioned strength of police force in India is 24, 84,170, while only 19,41,473 police personnel have been posted. Thus, there is a shortage of about 5.43 Lakh police personnel.
For fifty per cent of population we have only 1.2 Lakh female police personnel, perhaps this is also one of the reasons why rising crimes against women are not under check. In 1970, there were 121 police personnel on one Lakh population, while by 2015 it has nominally risen to just 137. Thus, the growth rate of police force deputation has been very slow.
Sir, in Uttar Pradesh the sanctioned strength of police force per Lakh population is 187.75 but only 90.37 police force has been posted which is less than half of the sanctioned strength. Since many police personnel are deployed in VIP service, their availability for duty gets further reduced.
So, it is my request to the Government to issue advisory to all the States and by getting recruited the police force as per the sanctioned strength ensure that law and order and crime control be strengthened.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Md. Nadimul Haque; absent. He is quite regular person. 126 Special [RAJYA SABHA] Mentions
Demand to develop Areraj Someshwar Shiv Mandir in East Champaran as a tourist place
SHRI AKHILESH PRASAD SINGH (Bihar): Sir, the Shiva temple situated at Areraj in East Champaran district is historically a very important holy pilgrimage. The temple holds a very special importance as per public belief and faith. This holy place known as Someshwar Shiva Mandir is considered to be the biggest and oldest Shivadham of Bihar. During the holy month of Sharvan lakhs of pilgrims from all over the State and from neighboring country Nepal visit this temple for Darshan and fulfillment of their wishes. The importance of the temple can be gauged by thefact that it finds mention even in Skanda, Padam and Barah Puranas. According tothe popular belief Lord Rama while returning from Janakpur to Ayodhya had performed puja in this temple. In the year 1983, exploring team of renowned littérateurs Sacchidanand Vatsyayan Ageya and Shankar Dayal Singh had also confirmed this fact. Moreover, according to Rotak Vrata Katha Yudhishthir along with his brothers and Draupadi had performed puja of Lord Shiva here when they were in agyatvas (living anonymously). Apart from this the Shiva temple situated at Areraj is the only Panchmukhi Mahadev temple of India. But sadly, even after having so many special features the historical Someshwar Shiva temple at Areraj is still absent from the tourism map and even today quality pilgrim amenities are missing there. Therefore, I request the Central Government and Union Ministry of Tourism that in order to preserve the historicity of the Shiva temple at Areraj and to develop it in a modern way it should be included in the central list of important tourist places as soon as possible.
Demand to increase the retirement age of the High Court Judges and fill up the vacancies urgently
SHRI P. WILSON (Tamil Nadu): Hon. Chairman, I rise today to draw the attention of hon. Law Minister, through this august House, to an important demand of the legal fraternity, of which I am also a part, to increase the age of retirement of Judges of the High courts across the country. At present, the age of retirement of the High Court Judges is 62 as per Article 217 (1). The reason why we need to increase the age of Judges is two-fold. One is the large number of pending cases before the Courts. The other reason is that Judges who attain the age of 62 or 65 are well-experienced Judges who would be well suited to tackle pendency. Their invaluable experience gained over the years at the Bench cannot be substituted. If we look to other countries, the USA has a lifetime tenure for Judges of its Supreme court and Federal Court. In the UK, the age of retirement is presently 70, though there have been calls to increase it to 75. At present, there are about 403 Special [5 August, 2019] Mentions 127 vacancies out of total 1,079 posts of Judges in the High Courts. I request the hon. Law Minister to expedite filling the vacancies. Therefore, through this august House, I would like to urge the hon. Minister for Law and Justice to increase the age of retirement of Judges of the High Courts to 65 by introducing suitable amendments in Article 217 (1) of the Constitution of India. Till such time, I urge the Government to recommend to the hon. President of India to give consent to make appointments under Article 224A to extend the term of Judges who are presently retiring to enable them to serve till the age of 65. And expedite the filling of vacancies in all the High Courts. Thank you, Sir.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Husain Dalwai. What happened to my friend? He is not there. ...(Interruptions)...
Demand to release funds for under construction bridges in Banda district, Uttar Pradesh
SHRI VISHAMBHAR PRASAD NISHAD (Uttar Pradesh): Sir, I wish to draw your attention to a very important issue. In Banda district of Uttar Pradesh the Uttar Pradesh Bridge Construction Corporation has been constructing 6 bridges at slow pace. Construction of an approach road on Jhansi-Manikpur railway line on under-construction Ring Road in Banda town had started in 2017 with an estimated cost of 21 crore 61 lakh rupees which has now gone up to 57 crore 95 lakh 36 thousand rupees. For this immediate release of funds is necessary. Similarly, the Bridge Corporation is constructing Marka Ghat bridge Augasi Ghat bridge, on Yamuna river, Kamasin-Ora Mamsi road bridge in Vagai river, Ken river Rajghat bridge and Ken river bridge on Naraini-Mahoba Ring Road. After already spending an amount of 85 crore rupees construction work of many bridges has been halted due to shortage of funds. Therefore, in order to complete unfinished construction work of bridges, grant of budget is necessary.
Therefore, through the House, I demand from the Central Government that funds should immediately be released for completing the construction work of 6 bridges including the under construction over bridge on Jhansi-Manikpur railway line on Banda town Ring Road.
Demand to expedite steps to notify Ecologically Sensitive Areas (ESA) in the Western Ghats
SHRI A. K. SELVARAJ (Tamil Nadu): Hon. Chairman, Sir, Western Ghats is nature’s gift to humankind. Western Ghats run parallel to Western Coast starting from River Tapti in Gujarat to the South up to Kanyakumari. Many peninsular 128 Special [RAJYA SABHA] Mentions
[Shri A. K. Selvaraj] rivers originate here. Western Ghats is the home of many species. Variety of flora and fauna is found here.
UNESCO has included certain stretches of Western Ghats in UNESCO World Natural Heritage List. This shows the importance of Western Ghats and also its relevance to maintain ecological balance in the country.
Establishment of industries, thermal power stations, hydro-electric power stations, mining and quarrying in this areas has seriously affected this ecologically fragile zone. With a view to protect Western Ghats, the Government appointed Gadgil Committee. This Committee submitted its report in 2011. To evaluate the recommendations of Gadgil Committee, the Government appointed a High Level Working Group. Demarcating Eco Sensitive Areas (ESA) is one among the various steps recommended by HLWG to protect Western Ghats.
The draft notification to declare Ecologically Sensitive Areas (ESA) of the Western Ghats has been republished thrice. But still the Government is unable to arrive at any consensus regarding the extent of area which has to be marked as Eco Sensitive Area. There is no progress in the issue after the first meeting held on 15th February, 2019 post-issuance of third notification. The Government should not prolong the decision making process considering the importance of Western Ghats.
Therefore, I urge the Government to expedite steps to notify Eco Sensitive Areas (ESA) in order to save Western Ghats.
Demand to remove CSAT paper and give age relaxation to the candidates who appeared in the Civil Services Examination, 2015
SHRI SANJAY SINGH (NCT of Delhi): Sir, because of introduction of CSAT paper in 2011, the success rate of candidates opting Hindi and other Regional Languages medium has come down to even below 1 per cent, while the success rate of English medium students is about 99 per cent. That’s why around 90 per cent successful candidates come from convent and technology background, wheras the success rate of students from rural background and humanities disciplines less than 10 per cent. This is eroding the diversity factor in the civil services. Hindi language used in the questions asked is also quite impractical, complex and technical. in June, 2019 UPSAT has sent a proposal to DoPT to discontinue CSAT. But due to CSAT attempts of lakhs of candidates have gone in vain and in 2015 CSAT was made qualifying just three months before the examination, but the candidates affected by CSAT were not given any extra chance. Special [5 August, 2019] Mentions 129
Sir, if the Government can frame new rules for lateral entry at Joint Secretary level then what stops it to give another chance to the candidates affected by CSAT? These candidates are only demanding another chance to appear in the examination, they are not asking for jobs. More than 250 Members of Parliament of the country have written a recommendatory letter to the Government favouring these candidates. I request for giving one more chance with age relaxation to the candidates appearing in Civil Service Examination, 2015 to appear in Civil Service Examination, 2020 so that their loss could be compensated.
Demand to address the stress and poor health of the IT employees
SHRI T. K. RANGARAJAN (Tamil Nadu): Sir, it is reported that a company by name RedSeer Consulting in Bengaluru has conducted a survey among more than 500 IT employees across 10 leading tech companies about productivity loss due to health and lifestyle habits of employees. The survey found that the loss is about 3.5 billion that is 7 per cent of the total revenue.
The survey has further listed five main causes for the fall in productivity. They are (i) physical inactivity, (ii) poor emotional and mental health, (iii) poor physical health (iv) poor diet, and (v) drugs abuse including drugs for psychological problems. The survey also points out that employees in the age group of 20 to 40 are the most affected. I bring to the kind attention of the Government that family disharmony, divorce, alcoholism are all happening more among IT sector employees. The Government cannot remain a silent spectator.
The Government has to come forward to find out the causes for this sad state of affairs among the IT employees and find out ways to reduce this ill effect. Maybe, the Government must think of bringing out regulation restricting the work hours and also for providing recreational facilities. Even periodical in-house counselling for psychological problems must also be ensured by way of legislation to bring a healthy life for the workers in the IT sector.
Demand to save people of Maharashtra from river water pollution caused by the industries
SHRI ANIL DESAI (Maharashtra): Sir, despite awareness, there is high level of pollution in the entire country, particularly, in Maharashtra, where a large number of factories and manufacturing units are continuously polluting the rivers. Maharashtra, the State with India’s biggest economy, has also the highest number of polluted river stretches in the country-such as Warna, Sonpatra and Panchganga in Kolhapur, Ghot in Navi Mumbai, Savitri in Raigad, Godavari in Nashik and 130 Special [RAJYA SABHA] Mentions
[Shri Anil Desai] Krishna in Sangli and Satara - thanks to about 179 highly polluting units in the State. As per a latest report, Maharashtra is number one in pollution index followed by Gujarat, Telangana and UP. By draining the harmful effluent by polluting factories in the nearby rivers, the water of these rivers becomes unfit for human consumption. Factories have been discharging untreated effluents into rivers. Fishing communities also complain that their daily catch is only ten per cent of what it used to be. The rivers in Maharashtra are the filthiest in India and as a result unassuming people who consume this water are suffering from multiple health problems. No doubt, the management of factories is responsible for water contamination but in my opinion, lax monitoring of and prosecution for water pollution is also responsible. Common Effluent Treatment Plants of these factories routinely flout environmental guidelines on discharging untreated effluents into rivers. Understaffed and lacking teeth, the Maharashtra Pollution Control Board seems to be unable to take any effective steps against polluting units. The Central Government must, therefore, monitor so as to save our people from serious health problems.
Demand to check Air Pollution and ensure fresh air for all citizens
SHRI R.K. SINHA (Bihar): Sir, various media reports of different agencies keep getting published which depict a harrowing picture of air pollution. These reports categorically state that air pollution is causing a large number of deaths. The death toll runs into lakhs per year.
Sir, the Government should consider bringing out a White Paper on the issue of air pollution, so that an effective planning and clear diagnosis of the problem could be presented to tackle this challenge. Nobody can deny the fact there is a need to include the Right to Clean Air and Clean Water for all citizens in the list of fundamental rights.
Sir, the Government’s commendable program NCAP (National Clean Air Programme) is an ambitious project. However, the critics maintain that for better results it must be supported with legal and financial aid and structure without which this programme is not becoming successful. Though the growing presence of masks and air purifiers in the market may give some relief to those whocan purchase them, but it also creates a fear psychosis in general public because most of the people cannot afford to buy masks or air purifiers. Besides, it also needs to be ascertained whether they are effective and useful or not. The Government needs to assure this House and common people that everyone whether rich or poor, will have equal right to breathe in clean air and the Government is taking necessary steps to ensure the same. Special [5 August, 2019] Mentions 131
MR. CHAIRMAN: Dr. T. Subbarami Reddy; not present. Shri Ram Nath Thakur; not present.
Demand to keep application fees of the non-creamy layer OBCs at par with the SC/ST candidates
SHRI V. VIJAYASAI REDDY (Andhra Pradesh): Mr. Chairman, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity. The Other Backward Classes are the socially and educationally backward class in India. Article 15(4) empowers the State to make any special provision for advancement of any socially and educationally backward classes of citizens, or, for the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. By having these sections of the society mentioned in one provision in itself, makes a case for them to be treated at par in all provisions for advancement.
The OBC were segregated into the creamy and non-creamy layer, based on their financial standing, to ensure that the benefits of reservation and other provisions of advancement reached those who need it the most. Unfortunately, when it comes to the application fees of various national, level examinations, the fees of the non- creamy layer OBC is at par with that of the general category.
This is an anomaly because, on the one hand, the State is recognising that the non-creamy layer OBC are financially backward, and on the other hand, expecting them to pay exorbitant application fees for the national examinations. There is an intelligible differentia existing between the non-creamy layer OBC and the general candidates, and therefore, cannot be treated in the same manner.
For the non-creamy layer OBC, a couple hundred rupees is a financial barrier, and deter them from appearing in an examination. Hence, I urge the Government to take necessary steps and ensure that in all national examinations, the application fees of the non-creamy layer OBC be at par with the SC/ST candidates.
Demand to release the extra water of Ravi-Beas to Rajasthan as per the 1981 Agreement
DR. KIRODI LAL MEENA (Rajasthan): Sir, on 31.12.1981 an agreement about distribution of surplus water of Ravi-Bias rivers was entered into between Chief Ministers of Punjab, Haryana and Rajasthan. There was a provision in the said agreement that until the time Rajasthan comes in a position to utilize its total share Punjab can put to use the surplus water of Rajasthan.
Post the speedy development of Indira Gandhi Canal System now Rajasthan is in a position to utilizeits total share of water. Rajasthan has sent many representations to the Government of India, Government of Punjab and Bhakhra Bias Management 132 Special [RAJYA SABHA] Mentions
[Dr. Kirodi Lal Meena] Board to receive its remaining share of 0.60 MAF water, but instead of 8.60 MAF Bhakhra Bias Management Board is only giving 8.00 MAF water to Rajasthan.
Punjab has annulled all agreements related to Ravi-Bias water including the agreement executed on 31.12.1981 by enacting “The Punjab Termination of Agreement Act, 2004”.
In a hearing on this matter on 10.11.2016 a Constitution Bench of the Honourable Supreme Court expressed its opinion that the “The Punjab Act” cannot be termed legal as per the constitutional provisions and the State of Punjab cannot repeal the earlier decision and decree and the agreement of 31.12.1981.
Though a letter dated 25.02.2019 Rajasthan has once again requested the Government of India to direct Punjab and BBMB to release 0.60 MAF water of Ravi-Bias rivers. I urge the Central Government to take concrete action to provide 0.60 MAF water of Rajasthan’s share to it.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, Shri Binoy Viswam; not here. Dr. L. Hanumanthaiah.
Demand to make the draft New Education Policy available for three months in all Regional Languages for comments
DR. L. HANUMANTHAIAH (Karnataka): Sir, the Draft New Education Policy (NEP) 2019 is available only in English and Hindi languages. The right to read in other languages is denied and it seems that it is not representative of the vast majority of the regional people of India. The policy is not available in all 22 languages in the Eighth Schedule of the Constitution and more than that it gives just one month to read and react on 480 pages of document. It is not possible for people to read and react in one month.
The Draft New Education Policy does not try to go deep into problems in the existing Indian education system. In the beginning, a mention has been made about the ‘Indianization’ of the education system but has not defined the term properly. There has been an intensive dialogue on ‘Indianization’ in recent years, involving Governments, NGO and academic, on the conceptualization of Indian (Desi) knowledge, its sustainability and continuation. And the higher education in India is rapidly changing and is ready to be governed by the business rules. As a result, English has become a national link language, resulted in creating global monoculture. In this context, how are we to protect, sustain and continue with our local/State languages?
I urge the Government of India that the draft New Education Policy should be available in all the 22 prescribed languages and should be given at least three months to respond. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 133
SHRI JOSE K. MANI (Kerala): Sir, I associate myself with the issue raised by the hon. Member.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, Shrimati Chhaya Verma.
Demand to extend benefits of OBCs to the women after their inter-State marriage
SHRIMATI CHHAYA VERMA (Chhattisgarh): If a girl from any State marries a boy of the same caste belonging to other State and that caste falls under OBC category in both the States, then also that girl is denied the benefit of OBC after marriage. If she applies for a job in the State of her husband under OBC category then she is denied the benefit of OBC category. Suppose a girl from Haryana marries a boy ofthe same caste in the State of Delhi and that caste is recognised under OBC category in both the States, then also she is denied the benefit of OBC category in the jobs ofthe Government of Delhi. It means, the girl who is going to stay with her in-laws for her entire life in that State, will be deprived of Government job in that State under OBC category. Moreover, after marriage her economic condition depends on the economic condition of her husband, but for the purpose of OBC Certificate, the verification of her status is done on the basis of the income of her father in her home parental State. This is totally incorrect and baseless. Therefore, I request the Central Government that such irrational laws should be changed and the women should be given the benefit of OBC category in that State where they are going to stay for rest of their life, Thank you.
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STATUTORY RESOLUTIONS – Contd.
Cessation of all Clauses of Article 370 except Clause (1) The Jammu and Kashmir Re-organisation Bill, 2019
AND
GOVERNMENT BILLS — (Contd.)
The Jammu and Kashmir Re-organisation Bill, 2019
The Jammu and Kashmir Reservation (Second Amendment) Bill, 2019
MR. CHAIRMAN: The Hon’ble Minister of Home Affairs.
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN (West Bengal): Sir, I have a point of order under Rule 258. From 11 a.m. this morning, we have been seeing procedural hara-kiri; we have been witness to constitutional immorality. This is happening. 134 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
MR. CHAIRMAN: What is the point of order?
SHRI DEREK O’BRIEN: Sir, it is under Rule 258. Sir, on behalf of Trinamool Congress, we cannot see this constitutional immorality and hara-kiri of procedures any more. Our MPs themselves are now stuck midway because of a certain thing. Sir, on these two important grounds, in anguish, we walk out.
(At this stage some hon. Members left the Chamber)
MR. CHAIRMAN: To whom should I express my anguish about Members coming and squatting here? I can only talk out; I cannot walk out. Now, the hon. Home Minister.
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI AMIT SHAH): Hon’ble Chairman Sir, I am present in this august House with historic Resolutions and Bill. Sir, several members have raised their doubts, and put forward their views on these two resolutions and the Bill, which I have brought. Some genuine concerns have been placed on the table of the House. Some Members have tried to put forward the ideology of their party. But, I want to clarify this as a legislator that when I have brought these Resolutions and the Bill, I believe that with the abrogations of Article 370, the long era of bloodshed in Jammu-Kashmir is going to end.
Hon’ble Chairman Sir, before coming to the subject I would like to remember Dr. Shyama Prasad Mukherjee, our first National President, who sacrificed his life for the removal of Article 370. Sir, I would like to remember those 41,849 people who laid their life in the bloodshed taken place in Kashmir from 1989 to 2018. Some Members have asked who will stand responsible for it. Ultimately, what will happen? I want to ask that who will stand responsible for the death of those 41,489 people of valley and Kashmir. I have a clear opinion that those 41,489 people would not have died if Article 370 would not have been there. House has expressed its views with different opinions and said many things on Articles 370 and 35(A), but many of them are on technicality. Nobody spoke about the usefulness of Article 370. Somebody said it is a part of history, it was commitment of India, it was our commitment etc. - etc. But, how Article 370 is useful for India and especially to Jammu-Kashmir, Ladakh and particularly the valley, nobody has told anything about that. I will deal with all the issues raised here, but first of all I want to say that how much damage Article 370 has caused to the people of Jammu-Kashmir, Ladakh and valley area. Sir, I want to tell you what is going to happen by the abrogation of Articles 370 and 35(A). Sir, I want to tell this with example, India was divided and Pakistan was created. Many helpless people shifted throughout the country from Pakistan. Refugees came from Pakistan, some went to Punjab, some went to Gujrat, Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 135 some went to Maharashtra and some went to Jammu-Kashmir also. Sir, the refugees from Pakistan who went to Jammu-Kashmir have not got the citizenship till date. They can’t become even a councillor there. Is it not injustice to them? Whether it is injustice to them or not? Sir, what has happened in this country - refugees, who came from Pakistan, gave two Prime Ministers to this country - Dr. Manmohan Singh and Shri Inder Kumar Gujral. Refugees, those who took shelter in other parts of India could become its Prime Minister, but those who took shelter in Jammu- Kashmir, could not even become a councillor. What kind of justice it is? Those who stand in support of this, they should answer this. What kind of justice it is? Why this injustice meted out? Sir, they say that if Articles 370 and 35(A) are abrogated then it will be a doomsday. Jammu-Kashmir is a part of India due to Article 370 only. I will speak about this issue afterward, but, through you, I want to tell all the Members of the House, to the people of this country and especially to the people of the valley that as to what damages Article 370 has caused to the Jammu-Kashmir, Ladakh and especially to the valley. Sir, because of Article 370 democracy never percolated in Jammu-Kashmir. Articles 370 and 35(A) gave rise to corruption, it flourished and reached to its pinnacle. Because of Article 370 and 35(A) poverty spread its feet there. Today we see development throughout the country, but when we see the villages of valley our heart sinks, eyes become full of tears that why those people are still living in poverty even after 70 years of independence. Sir, sufficient health facilities are also not available there and it is because ofArticle 370. Article 370 is an impediment in the development of Jammu-Kashmir. Children of Jammu-Kashmir have to take admission in the educational institutions located in other parts of country, and the reason for this is also Article 370. Sir, this Article 370 is anti-women, anti-dalits and anti-tribal and at the same time this Article is also the root cause of militancy there.
Sir, I am looking forward but I want to give a detailed reply to all the questions. First of all, I will talk about democracy. This country adopted 73rd and 74th amendment of constitution and it was implemented throughout the country. But, because of Article 370 they were not applicable in Jammu-Kashmir. Late Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi brought those amendments but they didn’t apply to Jammu-Kashmir. When Azad sahib was Chief Minister, then also he could not implement it - why he could not implement it - because Article 370 was applicable there and he could not make consensus. Sir, Panchayat and municipality elections were not held there. Even today also, 73rd and 74th constitutional amendments are not applicable there. Today, the House will pass this Bill and tomorrow it will be passed in Lok Sabha and 73rd and 74th constitutional amendments will be applicable there automatically. 136 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Amit Shah] Sir, Panchayat elections were not held there, municipality elections were not held there. Legislator, legislator and legislator is being heard – 25 Members have asked that why there was no trust on legislation. I want to ask who was responsible for not giving the rights to more than 40 thousand Panch-Sarpanchs for 70 years. Article 370 is responsible for it. Sir, President Rule was imposed there. In President Rule, on the request of hon’ble Prime Minister, elections were held there under Panchayat Act of Jammu and Kashmir and today 40 thousand Panch-Sarpanchs are serving the villages there. Rupees 3500 crores have been made available in their hands. They were denied this right, but no one will speak of it.
They indulge in vote bank politics. Whether only Muslims are living in the valley? Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Buddist and Jains live in the valley. If Article 370 is good, then it is good for everyone and if it is bad, then it is bad for everyone. We don’t indulge in religious politics. Sir, three families have their monopoly in ruling Jammu-Kashmir. Democracy was not allowed to grow in Jammu-Kashmir. Recently Panchayat elections were held there under the leadership of the Prime Minister under President Rule and today 40 thousand Panchayat members are working there. Even a single drop of blood was not shed. Elections were peaceful there. Those who join largest Panchayat of this country by getting 5 or 7 per cent of vote, I want to tell them that voting percentage in Jammu-Kashmir was 50 per cent. This indicates that the people of Jammu-Kashmir want democracy. Still, I want to say that you established contacts, rise above politics and set aside the vote bank politics, and then you will realize how much damage Article 370 has caused to Jammu-Kashmir.
Sir, I have said that Article 370 is responsible for the poverty of Jammu-Kashmir. I want to place some figures. Government of India has spent ` 2,77,000 crores from 2004 to 2019. This amount of ` 2,77,000 crores is separate from the package which Narendra Modi Government has given. Sir, when we look out for outcome, we don’t find anything on ground. I will tell you afterward why no work took place. In 2011-12, Government of India provided ` 3,683 per head in India whereas in Jammu-Kashmir this amount was ` 14,255. But, no development work was done there. Why this has happened? It is so because agencies responsible for the control of corruption are not permitted to enter there. What stops them? It is Article 370, that stops them.
Sir, in 2017-2018 Government of India has sent on an average ` 8,227 per head in India and in Jammu-Kashmir per head expenditure was ` 27,358. But, this money is not percolating to the ground level because Article 370 has created a monopoly there. Resident of that area can only do the business there. Very few people, who are associated with those three families, have taken the agencies of cement and steel. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 137
Sir, I want to say that cement is costing ` 100 more per bag there than other parts of the country. Why is it so? It is because there is no permission to do business there. There is no competition. The one who has blessings of these three families can do business there. Those who advocate the continuation of Article 370, I want to ask them where did the money go?
When the auditor and administrator were appointed in Jammu and Kashmir Bank, I saw sweats on the faces of many eminent people in the winter. The protest is not for Jammu and Kashmir, it is because there is President’s rule and investigation has started, so people are agitating. I feel that they want to give it a different colour.
Sir, what did the people from the valley get? When the country became independent, the average price of an acre of land across the country was ` 3 thousand. It went to ` 30 lakhs in some parts of the country, ` 10 lakhs in some other parts and upto ` 3 crores at some places. The price of land anywhere around the city is not less than ` 10 lakhs per acre. What is the cost of land in Jammu and Kashmir today? The price of land did not even go up from ` 3 thousand to ` 30 thousand. Why the price of the land did not increase? It didn’t increase because there are no buyers, no one can buy there. When no one can buy, how will the price rise! I want to ask, why do you want to keep the person poor who has the land? Why don’t you increase his wealth? Just now Ram Gopal ji was also saying. Sir, through you, I want to ask him what is the cost of land around Lucknow? What is the rate of land there? So Ram Gopal ji, should the people of Srinagar not get the good value of their land? Don’t they have the same right? Why to deny them? Sir, the poverty has increased there and Article 370 and 35 (A) are the main reasons for this. There has been a lot of corruption. The crores of rupees, thousands of crores of rupees sent by the Government of India, got lost in corruption and because of Article 370, no law to check the corruption was allowed to be enforced there.
Sir, I would like to talk about tourism. The whole world believes that the Kashmir Valley and Ladakh are the paradise on the earth. Everyone believes this since the Mughal period. But the tourism has not developed there as much as it should have developed. There is snow, there are lakes and there are valleys and forests. There are immense possibilities of tourism. But tourism has not developed, because nobody can buy land to build good hotel there. Who will go there? The existence of Article 370 has limited the possibilities of tourism. Big companies want to go there, they want to set up good hotels, big travel companies want to open their offices, they want to open their offices in the valley. If they open their offices, the people of the valley will get employment, the youth of the valley will get work, 138 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Amit Shah] they will drive taxis, they will get employment and some of them will get work as guide. Tourism could not develop there because due to Article 370 big companies, big travel agencies did not go there, no big company can build a hotel there.
Sir, Hazratbal is there, Shankaracharya temple is there, Vaishno Devi is there and Amarnath is there. There is also a lot of potential of religious tourism, but all these potentials are not exploited, they cannot be explored, they cannot be developed. Those who are in favour of Article 370, please explain to me that if a person wants to set up a big industry in Jammu and Kashmir today, how will he do it? I am willing to sit late to know how can he do it? If big industries are not set up, then how will the problem of unemployment be resolved? If someone from Punjab or Himachal Pradesh wants to go there and set up a small scale industry, how will he set up if Article 35A and 370 are there? Why do you want to keep Kashmir in your monopoly?
Sir, through you, I want to tell the youth of the valley that those who show you the dreams of 370, will neither do any good to the valley nor to the youth, only some politicians will be benefitted by this. I want to say that the valley has not benefitted at all. I want someone to explain to me the benefits. Yes, electricity will be made available, so let’s keep 370, toilets will be made available, so keep Article 370, for jobs keep Article 370, those who get ` 5 thousand as salary will get ` 15 thousand, so keep Article 370.
People talk of Culture and language! So many princely States have been merged to the rest of the States. Did their culture, language become extinct? Has anything become extinct in India? Did the culture of Maharashtra and Gujarat become extinct? Sir, I will come to this point later.
Sir, today the condition of healthcare is terrible there. The way population is increasing all over the country, Governments alone cannot keep the health infrastructure of the country up to the mark. Sir, in the country PPP model has been accepted, private hospitals have been brought in at many places, but in Jammu and Kashmir there can be neither PPP model, nor private hospitals. Someone can go there under some influence but since nobody can have property in his name, who will gothere? What is the rationale behind this? We do not allow health facilities to improve there. Today we have Pradhanmantri Ayushman Bharat Scheme, but where is the hospital? Now people can get medical treatment for five lakh rupees, but where are nurses, where are the doctors? Because of Article 35A, which doctor will go there? His child can neither get voting right, nor can he buy his house. He can neither buy Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 139 land nor can he get voting right by staying there. Which doctor of global repute will go there. I want to know this from those who are advocates of Article 370? Which doctor from Mumbai will go there? A lot of doctors go to Odisha. Doctors from all over the country, all over the world go there. Doctors from all over the world come to Gujarat, because they have permission to buy a house in Gujarat. Doctors feel safe there. He feels that he can earn some money, can invest there, so they feel safe. Nobody, no doctor goes there, due to which there are a lot of shortcomings in healthcare, and the main reason for this is Article 370.
Sir, I will be very brief. By the way, I can elaborate on this along with figures. I am also going to send all details to Ghulam Nabi Azad Saheb tomorrow by writing a letter to him. He can reconsider his position. There is still time left.
Sir, if I talk about education, the children of all over the country between the age of 6 and 14 years got the right to education in 2009. For this purpose the Constitution was amended. The children got Right to Education, but the children in Kashmir have not got this right till today. Through you I want to ask those who spoke for Article 370 like may reply as to Kapil Sibal Saheb, Chidambaram Saheb, Ghulam Nabi Azad Saheb, why the children of Kashmir valley should not get the right to education. The advocates of Article 370 have to give this answer. Why did the children not get that right? The amendment that we made in the Constitution was not adopted there. But this adoption is not required now. If the Lok Sabha passes it tomorrow, every child of Jammu and Kashmir will get the right to education from tomorrow night.
Sir, yes, there are no private educational institutions in Jammu and Kashmir. Why would they go there? Which Professor will go there to teach? Who will invest money there if the property cannot be in his name? If there is appreciation, then it will not benefit him. Who will go there? Why do you want to have your holdon it? What is the reason, I do not understand.
Sir, If there is any reason for opposition to this proposal, you should tell us. You say that we suddenly brought the Bill and didn’t give you a chance. Yes we didn’t do it. I want to say that we have brought a Bill in the national interest. You brought a constitutional amendment to save Indira Ji from the Judgment of Allahabad High Court and passed it on the same day and demolished the democracy of this country and you preach us! Sir, I wish to say that there can be differences on the provisions of the Bill piloted by me. I believe that the removal of Article 370 and 35-A is going to benefit Jammu and the Valley and Ladakh and Jammu and Kashmir will become an integral part of India in true sense after the removal of Article 370 and 35-A. 140 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Amit Shah] 6.00 p.m. Sir, Ghulam Nabi Azad Saheb said that Jammu and Kashmir State is in Schedule-I. I agree that Jammu and Kashmir is a State but I want to ask if the laws passed by both the Houses of India apply in Jammu and Kashmir. Do the residents of Kashmir benefit from it? Government do not make laws to run Governments; Governments make laws for the welfare of citizens. If the Parliament of the country, both Houses of the Parliament pass a law for the Welfare of the citizens it’s benefit does not reach there.
Sir, Ghulam Nabi Azad Saheb addressed me and said that now inter-state marriages are taking place. He doesn’t listen actually. Ghulam Nabi Azad Saheb please listen to me. Sir, he said that inter-state marriages are taking place. I want to ask him that if a girl from Jammu and Kashmir gets married to an Odia boy, does she and her children get any rights in Kashmir? You are happy that weddings are happening. There marriages are not legal but there are taking place. Once open it, Jammu and Kashmir will be merged with India in true sense. Nothing is going to happen. There is a mental barrier, it is vote bank politics. Some people keep carrying the burden hoping that something will happen but sir I want to say that nothing is going to happen.
Sir, Article 370 is not required if the right to education is to be given there; all the laws that have been made for the women, if those rights are to be given to women and their children, Article 370 is not required. Sir, this Article 370 is anti- Dalit and anti-tribal. I want to ask how many per cent OBCs are there. Sir, through you I also want to ask Ram Gopal Yadav ji, because his party is the well-wisher of OBCs. His party always talks about them. Ram Gopal Yadav ji, do you know that OBCs do not get reservation in Kashmir.
Tribals do not get political reservation, Dalits do not get political reservation. That is why today, behan Mayawati ji’s party has supported it. Her party will vote in its favour. I was listening to Mishra ji. Sir, how long shall we do injustice to them? These tribals are not only Hindus. Those who used to talk of vote bank, I want to tell them that there are Gurjars, Muslims Gurjars. They too have been denied reservation. Someone should explain what is its benefit? We brought the Bill at 11.00 a.m. and started discussion at 11.00 a.m.
When the Bill was taken up at 11.00 a.m. it was said that it is discussed at 11.00 a.m. When we brought the Bill for Article 370, it was said that we keep on changing Bills. Then it was said that it is not appropriate constitutionally. Sir, Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 141
I also know that some parties have the brigade of NGOs and they will challenge this Bill, I know this.
Sir, I want to tell the Members, through you, that nothing is going to happen to this Bill with any legal scrutiny. Every legality is given in it.
Sir, till today, no arrangement has been made for Dalits, Adivasis, Tribals of Jammu and Kashmir. The reason for this is also Article 370.
Sir, now I come to terrorism. Terrorism developed thrived and reached the extreme there, but is now gradually coming down. We have to see the cause of terrorism. I want to tell you that the ghost of this Article 370 created a feeling of heartburn from time to time by misleading the minds of the youth who believe in separatism there and Pakistan used that feeling of resentment. Compared to the states of the rest of the country, terrorism has increased manifold in Jammu and Kashmir. Sir, 41,894 people have died there due to terrorism till date. I want to ask you why they have been killed? You are saying that our policy is not good. It may be one perspective, but what did your policy do? Whose policy killed 41,894 people? No one changed the policy. The policy that was started by Jawaharlal ji, is still going on till date. Who is responsible for this? Why so many people killed there?
Sir, the demand for autonomy was made. After losing three wars, in 1988, Pakistan’s General Zia-ul-Haq and approved Operation Tupac, and Article 370 is also mentioned in it. He said that such groups should be formed which may mislead the youth of Kashmir and separate them from the mainstream of India and as long as there is Article 370, the youth of Kashmir would not associate with India.
Operation Tupac started in 1988 and since 1989, terrorism erupted in the Valley. I want to ask all of you a question. Pak inspired groups terrorists, want to spread terrorism all over the country, but why the youth of Rajasthan is not misguided and why the youth of Gujarat is not misguided? Gujrat also have border with Pakistan. Why the youth of Odisha are not misled? Why the youth of Bihar are not misled? The youth of other States are not misled because there is no Article 370 and there is no ghost of separatism.
Sir, from time to time, whenever terrorism comes at the verge of ending, some people start provoking the people there with regard to Article 370. I believe that the youth of Kashmir have been misled by the Hurriyat, ISI and infiltrators. That is why from 1990 to 2018, 41,894 people have lost their lives in the Valley. This figure is not a small figure. 142 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Amit Shah] Then it was said that there will be bloodshed, it will happen like this; it will happen like that, why do you give such good wishes? We are doing a new experiment, in such a situation, you should say that all is well, be at peace. What message are you giving to the valley? You are standing here saying that there will be bloodshed; is it fair to say that? Does this House want bloodshed there? Do we want Bloodshed? What message do we want to convey in the valley through this House? Do we want to give them message that you keep on living, in 18th century systems? Do people there not have the right to live under the systems of the 21st century?
Sir, I would like to say that children of all those, who provoke the people of Kashmir, study in London and America. Let them stay there and study in any school over there, let them study in any college of Kashmir, and then they will know what Article 370 is. Ask all those who advocate Article 370, that where do their children study? They have done all their works well, so they are not worried about it. To keep the youth of the valley illiterate, this Article 370 is a big obstacle. This Article is not even allowing them to develop.
Sir, I clearly believe that as long as there are Articles 370 and Article 35A, terrorism, will not come to an end in the Kashmir. Therefore, the withdrawal of Article 370 is absolutely necessary to make Kashmir free from terrorism. The Government which is running under the leadership of Modiji wants to embrace the youth of the valley. We want to give them a good future, want to give them good education, good health facilities. If industries are there, there, they will get employment, if tourists go there, they will get employment. We want to make them enrich. It is necessary to remove the obstacle of Article 370 to ensure the same development in Kashmir, which is taking place in the rest of India.
Sir, I still want to say that even Jawaharlal Nehru said that do not worry, Article 370 will gradually become in effective, it is still there as we have gracefully kept Article 370 is there 70 years. Now you tell me, this is a temporary provision, everyone accepts it, can the word ‘temporary’ last for 70 years? When will it go, how will it go? How long does this temporary provision have to run? Sir, I urge that you should take such things away from the record, take notice of it. Sardar Patel tried to create a united India by adding more than 650 princely States in the country. Let me clear the records that Sardar Patel never dealt with Jammu and worty Kashmir. Sardar Patel had dealt with Junagadh, which is with in India today, without 370. He had dealt with Hyderabad, which is with India today, without 370. Pandit Nehru dealt with Jammu and Kashmir, with 370 and today we too are Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 143 dealing with it. Sardar Patel did not have this issue. I am ...(Interruptions)... from the file of my Ministry.
SHRI ANAND SHARMA (Himachal Pradesh): That is not correct.
THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD): Sir ...(Interruptions)... In the Constituent Assembly, Iyengar and Sardar Patel used to constantly talk about 370. ...(Interruptions)...
Shri Amit Shah: No, I am not talking about 370. ...(Interruptions)... One minute, one minute. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: What was said to give to Pakistan, that matter...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Sir, let me make it clear again. Ghulam Nabi Azad ji does not listen carefully. He may rethink after hearing this. They have to vote in favor of 370, so they are not listening carefully.
Sir, let me tell you that I did not say who said what in the Constituent Assembly. I just said that who was looking after the matter. There is no mention of Sardar Patel anywhere in the matter. He was not involved in the discussion also. ...(Interruptions)... I tell you. ...(Interruptions)...
†Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad: Interference was absolutely there. ...(Interruptions)...
Shri Amit shah: There was not input from him at all.
†shri ghulam nabi azad: What are you talking? Pandit Nehru was in America and 370 ...(Interruptions)...
Shri Amit Shah: I am not talking about 370. ...(Interruptions)...
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: There used to be discussion on 370. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: You are still not understanding ...(Interruptions)...
†Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad: Iyengar, Sardar Patel and Maulana Azad used to talk about 370. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: The topic is not about 370. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: I am not talking about 370 at all. I am talking about a treaty with the Indian Union. ...(Interruptions)... Sardar Patel was not anywhere in it.
†The Speech delivered by the hon. Member in Urdu is available in the Floor Version. 144 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Amit Shah] Sir, I have to say humbly that Article 370 is the mother of terrorism, so it is time to bid farewell to Article 370. If Article 370 does not go today, then we will not be able to eliminate terrorism from Jammu and Kashmir.
Sir, some people said that Article 370 connects Jammu and Kashmir with India. If seen with spirit, they are correct, but I want to mention two dates. On 27 October 1947 the Instrument of Accession of Jammu and Kashmir was signed by Maharaja Hari Singh. When was it signed, 27 October 1947, while Article 370 was came into existence in 1949. Sir, the association with India has nothing to do with Article 370. This has been a misleading propaganda.
Sir, it is being said that if there is no Article 370, then Jammu and Kashmir will be separated from India. I do not understand how it will fall apart. I want to tell the people of the valley that there were many princely States in this country. They have united with India without 370, without 35A, but all have maintained their own culture. Maharashtra has maintained its culture, has also maintained its own language, Gujarat has maintained its culture, has also maintained its own language, Tamil Nadu has maintained its culture, they also protect their language, Telugu States have maintained their own culture, have also maintained their language. I do not understand where and how Article 370 protects your culture. It protects families of 3 and 3 political parties. They do not want that 370 abrogated. Article 370 was made a vote bank issue in the entire country. Ghulam Nabiji said that today the bomb exploded, we burst the bomb by bringing a Bill related to Article 370 and 35A. I do not know, from 1950 onwards, it was continuously written in my party’s manifesto that we will remove Article 370. This time also it was in the manifesto, because we believe from the beginning that this Article is not in the interest of Jammu and Kashmir; not in the interest of India and especially not at all in the interest of the people of the valley. Therefore, I believe that Article 370 should be repealed immediately.
Sir, when this topic was discussed in the Lok Sabha in 1964, Ram Manohar Lohia ji while participating in the discussion, through you, I would like to remind Ram Gopal ji, I am talking about Lohia ji, he said that as long as Article 370 is in existence, India and Kashmir cannot be united, uniformity cannot be achieved. Madhu Limaye Ji, Sarju Pandey Ji, S.M. Mukherjee, Inder Malhotraj ji, Samnani ji, a Muslim MP from Kashmir, Abdul Gani Sahab, Gopal Dutt ji, Shyam Lal Sarraf and 14 Members from Congress said the same, but the House was adjourned at that time. The same confusion arose at that time. On the second day, there was discussion by issuing a whip to ensure that the Members from Congress do not Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 145 vote in favour of it, but at that time the Minister of Home Affairs of the country, Gulzari Lal Nanda ji had to say that there is a feeling of many members that the right time has not yet come. When the appropriate time comes, we will deliberate on this subject and take constitutional steps.
Sir, I was born in 1964 and now I am 55 years old, but that time did not come so far. The appropriate time came when Shri Narendra Modi became the Prime Minister of the country. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, there was no need for any appropriate time, only political will was needed. Rising above the vote bank politics, a firm resolve was needed to decide in the interest of the country and that firm determination was shown by our Prime Minister, Narendra Bhai Modi. Due to political will, I have come in the House today with the proposal to seize Article 370. Article 370 has already been used and misused many times before this. I want to give a small example here. When Emergency was imposed in the country, Indira ji came up with a proposal that the term of all MLAs and Members of Parliament be extended to 6 years. At that time, the Jammu and Kashmir Assembly, adopting that proposal, even when Article 370 was in force, extended the term of its Members to 6 years. Later, Morarji Desai became the Prime Minister of the country. He withdrew these decisions, the 6-year term was again reduced to 5 years, but due to Article 370, the term in Jammu and Kashmir could not done 5 years. Even today the tenure of the Members there is 6 years. If you operate in this way, then I believe that it will not be right.
Many hon’ble Members expressed their curiosity here. Prasanna Acharya Ji said that if this proposal is passed, then why did you bring the Bill of reservation? I want to make it clear to the hon’ble Member that we have come with the Bill of reservation because today it will be passed in this House, but what the other House will do, I do not know. If that House also passes it first, then I will not move the Bill of reservation because then there will be no need to move the reservation Bill.People of Jammu and Kashmir will automatically get 10 per cent reservation. Swapan Dasgupta ji said whether constitutional reform is needed for Article 370 or not - I want to tell him that it is not needed. If the Chairman permits, I am willing to place the entire constitutional position in front of the House. An hon’ble Member asked how long will it remain UT? I definitely want to assure Hon’ble Ghulam Nabi ji and other hon’ble Members who have objected on its becoming UT that as soon as the normal situation is restored, the appropriate time will come, we have no objection to making it a state again. Today, through this House, I also want to tell the people of Jammu and Kashmir that Jammu and Kashmir is the crown jewel of India and there is no differences of opinion in it. Whenever the appropriate time 146 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Amit Shah] comes... But the kind of speeches that were being made today, I think it will take a little longer time, because this speech is going to be made later in the valley also. If the situation normalises, then we are not fond of prolonging it any more nor do we want to do it. Vaiko ji said that Kashmir would become Kosovo. Vaiko ji, be assured, nothing will happen like Kosovo, it was heaven, is heaven and is going to remain heaven. We will not let it become Kosovo, do not you worry.
SHRI VAIKO (Tamil Nadu): I stick to my ground.
SHRI AMIT SHAH: You have to do the same. Shri Tiruchi Siva said that will I take this route even inside the rest of the states. I want to assure hon’ble Member Shiva and the whole House that there is no 370 in the rest of the States, there is no such specific situation, there have been many divisions after independence, we have also done it. We created Uttarakhand, Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh, you created Andhra Pradesh and Telangana. Sir, they give me so many advices, just take a closed eye look at the Andhra and Telangana divisions and remember how they did. I just brought the Bill today and urged you to pass it today. You have given me permission using your privilege, you are pleased, and so I am passing this Bill. You lifted everyone out of the House and shut it, closed the doors, switched off the TV and then made Andhra Pradesh and Telangana, which is not happening today, so don’t make us understand how it happens.
Sir, Ghulam Nabi Azad Sahab said that thousands of women have become widows to save this Article 370 of Kashmir. Ghulam Nabi Azad Sahab; numbers of widows have reduced, whether they become so either to save 370 or to save Kashmir. But definitely women have become widows. More than 41 thousand people have been killed, and many women have become widows. But all because of Article 370. I want to give a clear message to the people of the valley that for 70 years they have lived with 370. The Congress Governments repeated the promises of 370, and misled. I say give us 5 years; we will make Kashmir the most developed State in the country. I want to tell the youth of Kashmir Valley that you trust the Government of Narendra Modi, nothing is going to happen. They are tricking, misleading, they are doing it for their politics, do not listen to them. Sir, I want to tell the youth of Kashmir, through you, that changes will take place inside Kashmir within these 5 years, then you will come to know that the idea with which 70 years passed was not proper.
Sir, later comments were made about the final solution, but I think, I want to repeat again, one Member said that this is the final solution to the Kashmir Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 147 problem. Sir, it will take time, but the only way is the removal of 370 and there is no other way, I certainly believe this. Chidambaram ji asked that how can we use 370 for the improvement of 370? Go through the constitutional order 367 and read it with 371D. Once you look at it carefully, you will also know the validity of the constitutional order.
Sir, I do not want to do any politics within this speech today. I have a lot of material, but I would like to say with great respect to both the Members of the Treasury Bench and the opposition today that all have tried in their own way to bring normalcy inside Kashmir having Article 370. I do not say that someone has done half-heartedly or has left it half done. Everyone has done it heart and soul but normalcy has not been restored inside Kashmir, we have to accept this reality. Today, the Resolution and the Bill that I have brought, I think that the way to solve the problem of Kashmir will come out from here. Sir, I believe it. I ask everyone to rise above vote bank politics and help the Government to make Kashmir normal, help the youth of Kashmir. All those who think good for Kashmir come together and take this step of removal of Article 370 among the people of Kashmir. This house should be United on this issue. Many parties of the House, usually the parties that are not with us, have also given a support speech today. The AAP (Aam Aadmi Party) has supported it, the BSP has supported it, the YSRCP has done so, the TDP has supported it, a lot of MPs have supported it ...(Interruptions)... the BJD has supported. Many people have given speeches in favour and everybody believes it. AIDMK has also supported ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI NAVANEETHA KRISHNAN (Tamil Nadu): We are 100 per cent supporting it.
MR. CHAIRMAN: He is taking the names of the newly associated ones. You are old one. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Sir, I also want to say to everyone that go home and watch the morning TV programs at night, the people of the nation believe that with the help of the removal of Article 370, Kashmir will be healthy forever. Kashmir will be good, the problem will be solved there. Sir, when the public has such a strong belief, seeing the trust of the public today, my faith has also immensely increased. I believe that Article 370 is the biggest hurdle in making Kashmir normal. I also know that if some parties start doing vote bank politics over it, challenging it put hurdles in its way, then these two Resolutions, one Bill and fourth Reservation Bill, crossing all hurdles these will go towards making Kashmir normal. I am confident that in a few days we will see laughing, drooling, blooming Kashmir and the bomb 148 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Amit Shah] blasts, bullets, guns and terrorism seen there will come to an end. And, instead laughing children will go inside the school, old people will be get treatment, youth will get employment and any citizen will be able to go inside Dal Lake with his family comfortably without any kind of fear. We will create such a Kashmir. I want to request everyone to please support both these Resolutions and both Bills and send conclude a good message to Kashmir. I conclude my speech pleading with folded hands.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I shall now put the motion regarding consideration of Jammu and Kashmir Reservation (Second Amendment) Bill, 2019 to vote.
The question is:
“That the Bill further to amend the Jammu and Kashmir Reservation Act, 2004, be taken into consideration.”
The motion was adopted.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We shall now take up clause-by-clause consideration of the Bill.
Clause 2 was added to the Bill.
MR. CHAIRMAN: In Clause 3, there is one Amendment (No. 1) by Dr. T. Subbarami Reddy. He is not here.
Clause 3 was added to the Bill.
MR. CHAIRMAN: In Clause 4 also, there is one Amendment (No. 2) by Dr. T. Subbarami Reddy. He is absent.
Clause 4 was added to the Bill.
Clause 1, the Enacting Formula and the Title were added to the Bill.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The hon. Minister to move that the Bill be passed.
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Sir, I move
“That the Bill be passed.”
The question was put and the motion was adopted.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, I shall put the first Resolution moved by Shri Amit Shah...... (Interruptions)... Is this on the first Resolution? ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Sir, both together. ...(Interruptions)... Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 149
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Chidambaram.
PROF. MANOJ KUMAR JHA (Bihar): Sir, I have a point of order.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please, I have just called him.
SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM (Maharashtra): Sir, the hon. Minister gave an elaborate reply on why he is doing away with article 35A and article 370. Now, he may have convinced a large number of people, but I am not convinced. But I am not raising that issue. What I want to ask is, doing away with article 35A and article 370 was part of your manifesto and you are bringing the Resolution, but why are you reducing the status of the State of Jammu and Kashmir to that of a Union Territory? You are carving out Ladakh as a Union Territory. Why is Jammu and Kashmir becoming a Union Territory? ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: All right. You have made your point. Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad.
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Sir, I would like to draw the attention of hon. Minister of Home Affairs to only two or three things so that records stand corrected. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: You have to raise questions only. You know that. I need not tell you. Seek clarifications only.
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Sir, I would like to tell that the Minister of Home Affairs said that the dalits and tribals are not treated fairly. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: No, No, I never said that. ...(Interruptions)... one minute ...(Interruptions)... Sir, you may refer my speech. I have said that, they didn’t get political reservation. ...(Interruptions)...
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: All right. As such, the tribals have 10 per cent reservation in services. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: One second, Sir, you may please get the records checked, I have used the words “Political reservation.” ...(Interruptions)...
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: But, Jammu-Kashmir is the first State where there used to be seven to eight ministers from the SC & ST community without having any political reservation. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Do you want to say that based on this pattern reservation should be removed from the whole country? ...(Interruptions)...
†The Speech delivered by the hon. Member in Urdu is available in the Floor Version. 150 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: For last 12 years only congress Chief Minister. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please. ...(Interruptions)... What is your clarification? You are being clarified instead of asking. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Sir, does Hon. Ghulam Nabi Azad Sahab want to say that based on this pattern the reservation be removed from the whole country? ...(Interruptions)... what does he try to convey? Sir, it is the right of tribla people of Jammu-Kashmir to get the political reservation and they should get it and it would only happen once the Article 370 get repealed. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: What is the clarification you want?
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Secondly, ...(Interruptions)... No Sir, it has been incorrectly reported. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please, please. ...(Interruptions)...
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: You said that we.. Andhra Pradesh and Telangana. Either Mr. Chidambaram or Mr. Sibal has asked that while taking all these steps in Jammu-Kashmir, what consultation did you do? Now I will tell you about Andhra Pradesh and Telangana as, I was taking part in negotiation from both the Government and from Party side, I had about 20 meetings with the MLAs, Ministers and MPs of Andhra Pradesh and Telangana. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: No, that is alright.
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: We had regular meetings for a year.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You are trying to respond to him. There is no need to discuss it further. ...(Interruptions)...
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: When both the MPs and MLAs of Andhra Pradesh and Telangana said that we leave it to the centre, then only we did it. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Ghulam Nabiji, please. Prof. Manoj Jha. ...(Interruptions)... Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad, please. If everybody starts giving their views, then we cannot move.
†SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Thirdly, it was said that nobody could build hotel there. ...(Interruptions)... The biggest hotel the Hotel Oberoi was constructed
†The Speech delivered by the hon. Member in Urdu is available in the Floor Version. Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 151
70 years ago, prior to independence. ...(Interruptions)... Even today, the big five star hotel that is there, it is of the Lalit, which is an outsider. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: I have called Prof. Jha. What is your point of order? ...(Interruptions)... Please, let me make one thing clear. After the Minister’s reply, any Member can ask for clarification. They cannot give clarification. If they start giving clarification, then others would ask questions.
SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Sir, if wrong statements are made, they have to be corrected.
MR. CHAIRMAN: That is what I am saying. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: It was said that no industry can be set up by any outsider there. ...(Interruptions)... Anyone can set up industry, can open hotel there. ...(Interruptions)... It is a wrong statement. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: You may have your opinion. The Andhra Pradesh and Telangana issue is a matter of history now. Everybody knows that. Prof. Jha, what is your point of order? ...(Interruptions)...
PROF. MANOJ KUMAR JHA: Sir, I wish to make just a small submission under Rule 234. Reference was made to Pandit Nehru and Sardar Patel and it is going on the record of the House. I would make a request. Sardar Patel’s biography...
SHRI AMTI SHAH: Sir, What is his Point of Order? ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: He is just making a suggestion to me.
PROF. MANOJ KUMAR JHA: Sir, I would say that the House should set the records straight. I have certain papers. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: I would look into that. ...(Interruptions)... hon. Minister, now you take up the second issue. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMTI SHAH: Sir, let me give him the reply.
MR. CHAIRMAN: What?
SHRI AMIT SHAH: The two points that he has raised. Sir, let me also have two more minutes. ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: I have no problem.
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Hon’ble Chairman Sir, Mr. Chidambaram said that it is there in their manifesto. Let me clarify that in last 2014 election we came up with 152 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Shri Amit Shah] full majority and in this election also we have come up with a full majority but this is in our manifesto not from today. Keep aside Parliament, the days even when we were not winning even any municipality election, then also we were putting it in our manifesto as, we were of the opinion that it is a wrong route and this country kept on going on his route for last 70 years therefore, it is an opportune time to get rid of it.
Secondly, Azad Sahab spoke about consultation. ...(Interruptions)... Sir the demand to make Ladakh sahab an UT ...(Interruptions)... Just a minute it does not happen like this.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please you sit down.
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Sir, he said that where the consultation took place?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you have any problem. If the hon. Member has nay health problem, he may leave ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Sir, for years the demand for making Ladakh an UT ...(Interruptions)... as a Minister Azad Sahab himself had gone there as an interlocutor ... Interruptions)...
SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Sir, for Leh, not for Ladakh. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Sir, for both Leh and Ladakh ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Leh is different; Kargil is different. ...(Interruptions)... Kargil people are anti-UT and Leh people are pro-UT. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI AMIT SHAH: In the doing consultation for 70 years, the situation deteriorated to such an extent that there arose a confusion as to whom to consult. Sir, the example quoted on setting up of hotel Lalit, it was also established in the name of some local resident.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I shall put the first Resolution moved by the hon. Minister to vote. The question is:
That this House recommends the following public notification to be issued by the President of India under Article 370 (3):
‘In exercise of the powers conferred by clause (3) of Article 370 read with clause (1) of Article 370 of the Constitution of India, the President, on the recommendation of the Parliament, is pleased to declare that, as from (*date) all clauses of the said Article 370 shall cease to be operative except clause (1) thereof which shall read as under, namely:— Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 153
“All provisions of this Constitution, as amended from time to time, without any modifications or exceptions, shall apply to the State of Jammu and Kashmir notwithstanding anything contrary contained in Article 152 or Article 308 or any other article of this Constitution or any other provision of the Constitution of Jammu and Kashmir or any law, document, judgement, ordinance, order, byelaw, rule, regulation, notification, custom or usage having the force of law in the territory of India, or any other instrument, treaty or agreement as envisaged under article 363 or otherwise.”
The motion was adopted.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I shall now put the second Resolution moved by the hon. Minister to vote. The question is:
“That the President of India has referred the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, 2019 to this House under the proviso to Article 3 of the Constitution of India for its views as this House is vested with the powers of the State Legislature of Jammu and Kashmir, as per proclamation of the President of India dated 19th December, 2018. This House resolves to express the view to accept the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, 2019.”
The motion was adopted.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I shall now put the motion regarding consideration of the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill, 2019 to vote. The question is:
“That the Bill to provide for the reorganization of the existing State of Jammu and Kashmir and for matters connected therewith or incidental thereto, be taken into consideration.”
SHRI T. K. RANGARAJAN (Tamil Nadu): Sir, I want division.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.
SHRI SWAPAN DASGUPTA (Nominated): Sir, I have asked for ...(Interruptions)...
MR. CHAIRMAN: No; I have already moved ahead. ...(Interruptions)... No further requests can be entertained. ...(Interruptions)... All the Members should take their respective places. ...(Interruptions)..., Dasguptaji, I have told you; I am not accepting it. I have already moved on to the Reorganisation Bill.
SHRI ANAND SHARMA: We have given notice. It was given in time.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You all please sit down for a minute and listen to me. Shri Anand Sharma, Shri Derek O’Brien, Shri Tiruchi Siva, Shri Majeed Memon, Shri 154 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
[Mr. Chairman] K.K. Ragesh, Shri T.K. Rangarajan, Shri Jose K. Mani and some other Members of the Rajya Sabha have submitted notices disapproving the Statutory Resolutions moved by the Minister of Home Affairs on 5th August, 2019 recommending issuance of Public Notification by the hon. President of India under Article 373 read with Clause (1) of the Article 370. In this connection, it may be stated ...(Interruptions)... Please, I would then have to name people. Don’t force me to do it. I am on a very serious Business. In this connection, it may be stated that there is no provision for disapproving a Statutory Resolution moved under Article 373 of the Constitution of India. The Resolutions moved by the Government will be put to vote. It will be either carried in the House or rejected. The Members will have the option to vote against the Resolution when it will be put to vote. However, the Members could have given amendments subject to Rule 231 (2), that is, the Amendments will not have the effect of a negative vote. Do you understand now? I have gone to the other one. Lobbies are cleared. While, the voting process is on, I request all the Members not to speak among themselves because the attention will drift and even if a small mistake happens, it will be a historical mistake. That is why, time and again, I tell everybody, please be there in your respective seats.
SHRI MADHUSUDAN MISTRY (Gujarat): Sir, what about those Members, who have not been given their Division Nos.?
MR. CHAIRMAN: I am clarifying it. Those Members who have not been given their Division Nos., earlier, I think there are 11 Members, they will be given slips and they can vote through slips. The Secretary-General will now explain the voting procedure.
SECRETARY-GENERAL: Hon. Members, you are aware that while most of the Members have their seats, Division Nos. in the House, eleven newly elected Members do not have a seat number allotted to them as yet. Therefore, even though today’s voting would be through automatic recording machine, the 11 newly elected Members will cast their votes using division slips, only those eleven Members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please, this is for the Reorganisation Bill. The Reservation Bill is already over.
SECRETARY-GENERAL: The eleven Members — I am mentioning their names to whom the officials will give a slip — are Shri Ram Vilas Paswan, Shri S. Jaishankar, Shri Ashwini Vaishnaw, Shri Jugalsinh Mathurji Lokhandwala, Shri N. Chandrasegharan, Shri Muhammathjohn, Shri M. Shanmugam, Shri P. Wilson, Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 155
Shri Vaiko and Dr. Anbumani-Ramadoss. The voting slips to these Members will be distributed by the officials of the Secretariat.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, there seems to be some technical problem. Now, slips will be given to all the Members. They have to register their vote on the slip, like they have done earlier. Slips may be distributed.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, the question is:
“That the Bill to provide for the reorganization of the existing State of Jammu and Kashmir and for matters connected therewith or incidental thereto, be taken into consideration.”
The House divided.
MR. CHAIRMAN:
Ayes : 125
Noes : 61
Abstentions : 1
AYES-125
Acharya, Shri Prasanna Agrawal, Dr. Anil Akbar, Shri M. J. Alphons, Shri K. J. Ashok Siddharth, Shri Athawale, Shri Ramdas Baishya, Shri Birendra Prasad Bajpai, Dr. Ashok Balasubramoniyan, Shri S. R. Baluni, Shri Anil Banda Prakash, Dr. Bhunder, Sardar Balwinder Singh Chandrasegharan, Shri N. Chandrasekhar, Shri Rajeev Chhatrapati, Shri Sambhaji 156 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
Chowdary, Shri Y. S. Daimary, Shri Biswajit Dasgupta, Shri Swapan Desai, Shri Anil Dhindsa, Sardar Sukhdev Singh Dhoot, Shri Rajkumar Dudi, Shri Ram Narain Dungarpur, Shri Harshvardhan Singh Ganguly, Shrimati Roopa Gehlot, Shri Thaawarchand Goel, Shri Vijay Gohel, Shri Chunibhai Kanjibhai Gokulakrishnan, Shri N. Goyal, Shri Piyush Gujral, Shri Naresh Gupta, Shri Narain Dass Gupta, Shri Sushil Kumar Hembram, Shrimati Sarojini Jadhav, Dr. Narendra Jain, Dr. Anil Jaishankar, Shri S. Jatiya, Dr. Satyanarayan Javadekar, Shri Prakash Jha, Shri Prabhat Judev, Shri Ranvijay Singh Kakade, Shri Sanjay Dattatraya Kanakamedala Ravindra Kumar, Shri Kardam, Shrimati Kanta Kashyap, Shri Ram Kumar Kom, Shrimati M. C. Mary Kore, Dr. Prabhakar Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 157
Lachungpa, Shri Hishey Lokhandwala, Shri Jugalsinh Mathurji Mahatme, Dr. Vikas Malik, Shri Shwait Mandaviya, Shri Mansukh Manhas, Shri Shamsher Singh Mansingh, Dr.Sonal Mathur, Shri Om Prakash Meena, Dr. Kirodi Lal Misra, Shri Satish Chandra Mohammedjan, Shri A. Mohapatra, Dr. Raghunath Muraleedharan, Shri V. Nadda, Shri Jagat Prakash Nanda, Shri Prashanta Naqvi, Shri Mukhtar Abbas Nathwani, Shri Parimal Navaneethakrishnan, Shri A. Nekkanti, Shri Bhaskar Rao Netam, Shri Ram Vichar Nirmala Sitharaman, Shrimati Oraon, Shri Samir Panchariya, Shri Narayan Lal Pandey, Ms. Saroj Paswan, Shri Ram Vilas Patnaik, Shri Amar Patra, Shri Sasmit Poddar, Shri Mahesh Prabhu, Shri Suresh Pradhan, Shri Dharmendra Puri, Shri Hardeep Singh 158 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
Rajaram, Shri Rajbhar, Shri Sakaldeep Ram Shakal, Shri Ramesh, Shri C. M. Rane, Shri Narayan Rao, Shri G.V.L. Narasimha Rao, Shri Garikapati Mohan Rao, Dr. K. Keshava Rao, Shri V. Lakshmikantha Raut, Shri Sanjay Reddy, Shri V. Vijayasai Rupala, Shri Parshottam Sable, Shri Amar Shankar Sahasrabuddhe, Dr. Vinay P. Seetharama Lakshmi, Shrimati Thota Selvaraj, Shri A. K. Shukla, Shri Shiv Pratap Singh, Shri Ajay Pratap Singh, Shri Amar Singh, Chaudhary Birender Singh, Shri Gopal Narayan Singh, Shri K. Bhabananda Singh, Shri Sanjay Singh, Shri Veer Sinha, Shri R. K. Sinha, Shri Rakesh Soni, Shri Kailash Subhash Chandra, Dr. Suresh Gopi, Shri Swain, Shri Narendra Kumar Swamy, Dr. Subramanian Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 159
Tasa, Shri Kamakhya Prasad Tendulkar, Shri Vinay Dinu Thakur, Dr. C.P. Tomar, Shri Vijay Pal Singh Tundiya, Mahant Shambhuprasadji Uikey, Shrimati Sampatiya Vaishnaw, Shri Ashwini Vaithilingam, Shri R. Vats, Dr. D.P. Vemireddy, Shri Prabhakar Reddy Venkatesh, Shri T. G. Verma, Shri Ramkumar Vijayakumar, Shri A. Vijila Sathyananth, Shrimati Yadav, Shri B. Lingaiah Yadav, Shri Bhupender Yadav, Shri Harnath Singh
NOES- 61
Abdul Wahab, Shri
Anand Sharma, Shri
Antony, Shri A.K. Azad, Shri Ghulam Nabi Babbar, Shri Raj Bachohan, Shrimati Jaya Baidya, Shrimati Jharna Das Bajwa, Shri Partap Singh Bharathi, Shri R. S. Bharti, Shrimati Misha Bhattacharya, Shri P. Biswal, Shri Ranjib 160 Government [RAJYA SABHA] Bills
Bora, Shri Ripun Chandrashekhar, Shri G.C. Chidambaram, Shri P. Dullo, Shri Shamsher Singh Elangovan, Shri T. K. S. Fernandes, Shri Oscar Gowda, Prof. M. V. Rajeev Gupta, Shri Prem Chand Hanumanthaiah, Dr. L. Hariprasad, Shri B. K. Hussain, Shri Syed Nasir Jha, Prof. Manoj Kumar Kareem, Shri Elamaram Ketkar, Shri Kumar Khan, Shri Javed Ali Mani, Shri Jose K. Mistry, Shri Madhusudan Nishad, Shri Vishambhar Prasad Patel, Shri Ahmed Patel, Shri Rajmani Punia, Shri P. L. Ragesh, Shri K. K. Ramamurthy, Shri K. C. Ramesh, Shri Jairam Rangarajan, Shri T.K. Rathwa, Shri Naranbhai J. Ravi, Shri Vayalar Selja, Kumari Shanmugam, Shri M. Sibal, Shri Kapil Singh, Shri Akhilesh Prasad Government [5 August, 2019] Bills 161
Singh, Shri Digvijaya Singhvi, Dr. Abhishek Manu Siva, Shri Tiruchi Somaprasad, Shri K. Soni, Shrimati Ambika Syiem, Shrimati Wansuk Tamta, Shri Pradeep Tankha, Shri Vivek K Tlau, Shri Ronald Sapa Tulsi, Shri K.T.S. Vaiko, Shri Verma, Shrimati Chhaya Verma, Shri Ravi Prakash Viswam, Shri Binoy Vora, Shri Motilal Wilson, Shri P. Yadav, Prof. Ram Gopal Yajnik, Dr. Amee
Abstained-01
Rao, Dr. K.V.P. Ramachandra
The motion was adopted.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, we shall take up Clause-by-Clause consideration of the Bill.
Clauses 2 to 103 and the First to Fifth Schedules were added to the Bill.
Clause 1, the Enacting Formula and the Title were added to the Bill.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The Minister to move that the Bill be passed.
SHRI AMIT SHAH: Chairman Sir, I move:
“That the Bill be passed.”
The question was put and the motion was adopted.
———— 162 Message from [RAJYA SABHA] Lok Sabha
MESSAGE FROM LOK SABHA – Contd.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Message from Lok Sabha.
The Surrogacy (Regulation) Bill, 2019
SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, I have to report to the House the following message received from the Lok Sabha, signed by the Secretary-General of the Lok Sabha:-
“In accordance with the provisions of rule 96 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Lok Sabha, I am directed to enclose the Surrogacy (Regulation) Bill, 2019, as passed by Lok Sabha at its sitting held on the 5th August, 2019.”
I lay a copy of the Bill on the Table.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The House is adjourned till 11.00 a.m. on Tuesday, the 6th August, 2019.
The House then adjourned at fifty two minutes past six of the clock till eleven of the clock on Tuesday, the 6th August, 2019. Demand to take steps to increase participation of women in work force (page 122) Demand to reserve the seats for Odisha students in the National Law University at Cuttack (pages 122-123) Demand to set up the Coast Guard Academy in Mangaluru, Karnataka (page 123) Demand to increase minimum pension upto ` 3000/- per month under the Employees Pension Schemes (EPS) 1995 (pages 123-124) Demand to remove encroachments from water bodies and choosing crops according to water availability to preserve ground water (pages 124-125) Demand to issue advisory to the States to post the police force as per their sanctioned strength (page 125) Demand to develop Areraj Someshwar Shiv Mandir in East Champaran as a tourist place (page 126) Demand to increase the retirement age of the High Court Judges and fill up the vacancies urgently (pages 126-127) Demand to release funds for under construction bridges in Banda district, Uttar Pradesh (page 127) Demand to expedite steps to notify Ecologically Sensitive Areas (ESA) in the Western Ghats (pages 127-128) Demand to remove CSAT paper and give age relaxation to the candidates who appeared in the Civil Services Examination, 2015 (pages 128-129) Demand to address the stress and poor health of the IT employees (page 129) Demand to save people of Maharashtra from river water pollution caused by the industries (pages 129-130) Demand to check Air Pollution and ensure fresh air for all citizens (page 130-131) Demand to keep application fees of the non-creamy layer OBCs at par with the SC/ST candidates (page 131) Demand to release the extra water of Ravi-Beas to Rajasthan as per the 1981 Agreement (pages 131-132) Demand to make the draft New Education Policy available for three months in all Regional Languages for comments (pages 132-133) Demand to extend benefits of OBCs to the women after their inter-State marriage (page 133) Published under Rule 260 of Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in the Council of States (Rajya Sabha) and Printed by Drv Grafix Print 41, Institutional Area, D-Block, Janakpuri, New Delhi-110058