Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 10 OCTOBER 1974

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Matters of Public Interest [10 OCTOBER 1974] Personal Explanation 1199

THURSDAY, 10 OCTOBER 1974

Mr. ACTING SPEAKER {Mr. W. D. Lickiss, Mt. Coot-tha) read prayers and took the chair at 11 a.m.

PAPERS The following paper was laid on the table, and ordered to be printed:- Report of the Commissioner for Consumer Affairs for the year 1973-74. The following paper was laid on the table:- Report of the Chairwoman of the Con­ sumer Affairs Council for the ,six months ended June 30, 1974.

PERSONAL E~PLANATION Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (11.2 a.m.), by leave: When answering 'a question on abortion from the honourable member for Ithaca yesterday, the Minister for Justice said- "The decision made by the A.L.P. con­ vention in Cairns proposed by Mr. Gardiner and seconded by the honourable member for Rockhampton is nothing short of providing 'abortion on demand'." Mr. Aotring Speaker, I take strong personal exception 'to this statement by the Minister for Justice because, firstly, it is totally un­ true, and, secondly, it abuses the privileges of this Assembly and is unbecoming the high and honourable office of Attorney-General.

Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member will make his personal explanation; he will not engage in padding.

Mr. WRIGHT: A resolution "that l'Ull ref­ erence to abortion be deleted from the Crim­ inal Code of the State" was carried at the A.L.P. Cairns convention but, as this con­ flicts with A.L.P. Federal policy, the con­ vention also endorsed the following motion, which I seconded:- "This Convention notes that one of the bases of a democratic society is that the law of that society should be certain and easily understood. "It further notes that there is consider­ able uncertainty, as expressed by medical practitioners and by the public in general, as to what constitutes a lawful termination of a pregnancy by a medical practitioner. "The codification of the law with respect to abortion and the terminology used has led to this uncertain situation. Therefore, it is the decision of this Convention that a State Labor Government declare clear guide-lines with respect to what is a lawful termination of a pregnancy by a medical practitioner under the present law. 1200 Personal Explanation [10 OCTOBER 1974] Personal Explanation

"Through the Attorney-General of the Mr. AIKENS: Mr. Acting Speaker-­ State, the Crown Law Officers would be instructed to prosecurte the abortion o:ffem.­ Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The ces except in the following circum­ honourable member for Townsville South stances:- will resume his seat. The Minister for Where the medical practitioner hon­ Justice has claimed that a certain remark estly believes on reasonable grounds that made by the honourable member for Rock­ the aot of terminating the pregnancy- hampton is offensive to him. The honour­ able member for Rockhampton will withdraw {a) was necessary to preserve the the remark. woman from a serious danger to her life or her physical or mental health Mr. WRIGHT: I withdraw the word "dis­ (not being merely the normal dangers honest", and substitute "untrue". of pregnancy and childbirth), which continuance of the pregnancy would Mr. KNOX: Mr. Acting Speaker, I crave entail; and your protection in this matter. I ask that (b) in the circumstances of the case the remark be withdrawn unreservedly. and the state of the patient at the time were not out of proportion to Honourable Members interjected. the danger to be averted." Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I do not Mr. FRAWLEY: I rise to a point of intend reminding the House again that points order. of order and denials will be heard in silence. My comments apply ·to both sides of the Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! There House. should be no point of order during a per­ sonal explanation. Mr. KNOX: I ask that the honourable member for Rockhampton withdraw the Mr. WRIGHT: The resolution oontinued- remark unreservedly. "By setting out these criteria, ·the public and, in particular, medical practitioners Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I ask the woruld be certain as to what the present Minister to be more specific. law is." Mr. KNOX: The honourable member for Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! Would Rockhampton concluded his explanation by the honourable member come to his personal claiming that I had been dishonest. I ask explanation. He is making a speech. that that comment be withdrawn because it is personally objectionable to me. He has Mr. WRIGHT: To continue- withdrawn the word "dishonest" and sub­ "Lt also removes the taint of criminality stituted "untrue". To my mind that is merely from women who require lawful thera­ a qualification of his withdrawal. peutic 'termination of pregnancies." Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The hon­ Mr. R. E. MOORE: I rise to a point of ourable member for Rockhampton will order. withdraw the remark that the Minister for Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The hon­ Justice has claimed is offensive to him. ourable member for Rockhampton is making Mr. WRIGHT: I regret that it is offensive a personal explanation, and I will be the judge of its merits. to the Minister, but the remarks were untrue, and I find myself in an invidious position. Mr. WRIGHT: I point out, Mr. Acting Speaker, that I am compelled to read the Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The motion in full, because the Minister-- honourable member will withdraw the offen­ sive remark. Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: The honour­ able member will continue. Mr. WRIGHT: If the Minister finds my remark abhorrent to him, I withdraw it. Mr. WRIGHT: In conclusion-my views Mr. Hodges: There should be no against abortion on demand have been voiced qualification. previously in this Chamber, and I decry this dishonest attempt by rthe Minister for Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I do Justice to smear my reputation. not want any advice from the front bench on my right. Mr. KNOX: I rise to a point of order. The concluding remark of the honourable Mr. AIKENS: I rise to a point of order. member for Rockhampton is a reflection on The honourable member for Rockhampton me. I object lto it and ask that it be has read what he claims to be an excerpt withdrawn. from .the minutes of .the Labor-in-Politics Honourable Members interjected. Convention in Cairns. In acoordance with previous rulings he must table the whole of Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The the minutes. He manufactured ,that particular House will come to order. minute just to gain favourable publicity. Questions Upon Notice [10 OCTOBER 1974] Questions Upon Notice 1201

Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! There TOWNSVILLE CHARGES AGAINST T.A.B. is no point of order. .ADMINISTRATION Mr. Aikens, pursuant to notice, asked The QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE Treasurer,- MASSAGE PARLOURS AND PROSECUTIONS With reference to the recent publication FOR PROSTITUTION in The Townsville Daily Bulletin of attacks on the Totalisator Administration Mr. Tucker, pursuant to notice, asked The Board charging the board with mismanage­ Minister for Works,- ment, amongst oilier things, as I have not seen a reply by tlte T.A.B. to the charges, (1) For each year since July 1, 1971, why has no reply been made? how many prosecutions have been launched on charges of prostitution? Answer:- (2) Were most of the charges associated "I have discussed with the Chairman with all~ged massage parlours, or what of the Totalisator Administration Board, other Circumstances gave rise to the Sir Albert Sakzewski, and Sir Douglas prosecutions? Wadley (Executive Committee Member) the accusations made by Dr. L. Halber­ Answers:- stater and Mr. A. G. Field (Chairman and Treasurer respectively of the Towns­ (1) "1971-72, 50; 1972-73, 42; and ville Turf Club) of mismanagement of 1973-74, 78." the affairs of the Totalisator Administration (2) "These offences are categorised as Board of Queensland and also tlte other follows:- charges made and cannot find any grounds for the daims made by the club official,s. 1971-72 1972-73 1973-74 I have also had handed to me by Sir ------1------Albert Sakzewski a copy of an open letter to the Townsville Turf Club written by Offences of prostitution involving massage par- Sir Albert on behalf of the Totalisator lours ...... 9 7 58 Administration Board and forwarded to the editor of The Townsville Daily Bulletin Keep premises for prosti~ tution (excluding mas- for publication. However, as I understand, sage parlours) __ 5 Nil the letter has not been published, I attach Live off earnings of pros- the copy hereto and ask that it be included titution _. . . 2 2 in Hansard as part of my Answer to the Honourable Member's Question so that Solicit for imn1oral pur- poses .. 34 30 17" 'the full facts in relation to the charges made will be available to persons inter­ ested in the racing industry and the public generally."

LAND ON ISLANDS IN REDLAND SIDRE OPEN LETTER TO TOWNSVILLE TURF CLUB Mr. Bousen, pursuant to notice, asked The "The attention of the Board has been Minister for Justice,- drawn to an article which appeared in the Referring to Questions asked in con­ Townsville Daily Bulletin dealing with the nection with sales of building sites on report of the Townsville Turf Club Corn· Russell, Karragarra and Macleay Islands- mittee at their Annual General Meeting. In the early portion of this article the ( 1 ) Who were the owners of the land President, Dr. Les Halberstater, said it as at June 30, 1970? appeared obvious that there had been (2) When was the land sold, to whom, some mismanagement in the T.A.B. This and what was the purchase price in each is a grave reflection on ,fue reputations of case? the individuals in control of the organiza. tion. Answer:- Without further clarification it is diffi­ (1 and 2) "There are several thousand cult to arrive at a conclusion whether the lots on the islands referred to. Without term 'mismanagement' refers to !the control specific real property descriptions a volume at Board or Management level. I propose of research and expense, which is not to refer to this later in this statement. considered to be warranted, would be However at this S>tage it would be appro­ entailed in obtaining the information priate to mention the fact that the Board sought. The time which would be involved is comprised, apart from myself as Chair­ man as a nominee of the Government, of could affect the expeditious registrartion gentlemen who have been extremely suc­ of documents at present being lodged in cessful in their various professional and/ or the Titles Office, and might result in commercial walks of life, all of whom are delays in the registration of dealings, a extremely well versed in every aspect of position which has been overcome in racing which of course includes galloping, recent months." trotting and greyhounds. The members of 1202 Questions Upon Notice [10 OCTOBER 1974] Questions Upon Notice

the Board are firstly four who have been The Club's report suggests that they nominated by the four Principal Clubs in had no likely indication of a decrease in Queensland, i.e., Queensland Turf Club, distribution to racing clubs from the Rockhampton Jockey Club, North Queens­ T.A.B. In this respect I would like to land Racing Association and Central draw attention to the fact that on 27th Queensland Racing Association; in addi­ July 1971 I requested Dr. Halberstater's tion two members represent the Brisbane permission to address a meeting of his Amateur Turf Club, and Ipswich Amateur committee, to which he agreed, and I was Turf Club and Tattersalls Racing Club, happy to have had the opportunity on that and a further two members separately day to address a majority of the members represent the trotting and greyhound clubs. of the committee of the Townsville Turf Club. It follows therefore 'that each and every galloping, trotting and greyhound club is The discussions which ,took place were represented at the Board table. somewhat lengthy, during the course of which I took the opportunity of outlining The Board in my view has operated in very clear terms the policy of the Board extremely successfully since 1st March regarding its proposed capital expenditure 1962, and at all times the absolute maxi­ in relation to the provision of a new Head mum of consideration has been given to Office building, and also the introduction the welfare of all clubs who are bene­ of computers. Without endeavouring to ficiaries under the T.A.B. distribution deal with the complete coverage of this scheme. discussion, I would like to quote the detailed record of my final summing up Dr. Halberstater states that his club is of ,the situation as it appeared to me as unable to get a reason as to why there Chairman, regarding the likely effect of should be a decrease in T.A.B. distribution. the extraordinary increases which were Anyone with the slightest semblance of taking place in respect of the prize money financial and economical experience should for Townsville in relation to the rest of surely realize that the Board is only in a the galloping clubs for the whole of position ,to distribute to the Clubs the Queensland. amount of net profit available during each Although I realized it was not my particular year. prerogative to advise the Townsville Turf The charter of the Board and its func­ Club as to exactly what action they should tions are governed completely by the terms take regarding the future programming in of the Racing and Betting Act. The respect of prize money, I took rthe liberty formula of distribution has been laid down of making the following statement which by the State Government and the Board is word for word an accurate record of has no alternative but to act in accordance what I said at that particular time:- therewith. 'Ever~thing I have said up 1to date merely leads to the problems of your At all times the Board has conducted Club. In the first of the eight years to its operations in a most businesslike and 30th June 1970 your prize money was efficient fashion, and effected such $48,000 and in 1968-69 $151,397 was economies as are possible. During the last paid in prize money, and $94,464 was financial year the Board has been faced received in distribution, or 64.36 per cent. with labour cost increases of a phenomenal However for the year 1969-70 for nature over which it has no control. In reasons best known 'to yourselves you this respect I would stress the fact that made a virtal increase of over $45,000 for the year ended 30th June 1974 the in prize money, and received $135,133, Board had to face labour costs alone of or 70.18 per cent. In 1970-71 you saw $7,833,944 compared with the sum of fit to lift your prize money by 39.35 $5,804,656 in the previous year, an per cent on the previous year, to increase of $2,029,288. The annual report $273,058. I issued a warning at the has just been issued and sets out these time that I though ,this was impmdent, costs in detail so that we found ourselves but apparently your club adopted the with a total cost of running the operation attitude that the more you gave, the of $10,248,956, an increase of $2,530,952. more you would receive, and now you According to your publication of the find your club is in financial difficulties repo11t, the Club's Treasurer, Mr. Bert despite the fact that over the period Field, mentioned that there had been a you have received $501,256 from huge increase in turnover of 'some T.A.B. $28,000,000', a complete mis-statement in The most significant faotor of your that our report shows clearly a turnover of programme regarding prize money is $151,891,765 as against $128,063,905 for that over the period of eight years prize the year ended 30th June 1973, an money for all galloping clubs increased increase of $23,827,860 which in effect by 124 per cent, whilst your club in the shows that Mr. Field has made an elemen­ same period increased its prize money tary error, not insignificant, of over $4 by 308 per cent, and your distribution million. increased by 1712 per cent. Questions Upon Notice [10 OctOBER 1974] Questions Upon Notice 1203

It is obvious that your present diffi­ Reference was also made to the fact that culties have been greatly brought about the Board appears to have built ivory by the rate of increase in your prize .towers around themselves and this of money. I think your programme has course relates to the fact that we at the been far too ambitious, and it is my present time are having constructed on firm belief that it will be most imprudent the Board's account a building to house and ultimately prove to be dangerous the operations of the Board for many for you to make any further increases years to come, in accordance with sound in prize money during the present year. business principles. At the present time I am quite certain that in a couple of the operation is centred at 8 McLachlan years' time reduced distribution will Street, Fortitude Valley, and because of cause you extreme embarrassment in lack of space therein the Board has had that the club will of necessity have to to lease an additional four areas in which reduce its prize money because it will to house their staff. It is of course obvious not be able to count on a continuance that the whole of the staff should be cen­ of provision from T.A.B. sources of a trally situated and this is of course the 70 per cent reimbursement of prize target the Board has in mind in erecting money given for the year.' the present building. Despite the warning I gave the members Dr. Halberstater stated that we are con­ of the Committee, the subsequent course struoting a large building for which we are of action adopted by the Club indicates paying out of capital which he believes is clearly that no notice whatever was taken a grave mistake. At this stage it should of the information I had conveyed to be pointed out that the total amount made those members of the committee who available for Capital and Establishment were present. purposes by the State Government was the sum of $1,400,000 and this was a As of 30th June 1974 the Townsville reimbursement which ceased in December Turf Club continued on its merry way 1965. The funds we propose to utilise for to increase prize money •to an unpre­ .the new building will come from reserves cedented extent when compared with the we have set aside annually since the date rest of the galloping clubs in the State above referred to. of Queensland. From the initial date of operations when in the year ended 30th Had we distributed the funds retained June 1963 the club's prize money was for capital purposes to all clubs concerned $48,000, it leapt (despite ten abandoned one could assume :that the various clubs meetings) to $324,020 in the year ended would then have distributed these funds 30th June 1974, or an increase of as prize money, which would then have approximately 575 per cent over 1963, left us w]thout the reserves set aside fm whereas in the same period the average the purpose mentioned. In point of fact increase in prize money in the aggregate the retentions have actually been some­ of all other galloping clubs (excluding what less than the interest earnings on Townsville) was 285 per cent, the net these reserves, so that the participating result being that Townsville increased its clubs have actually received distribution prize money by more than twice the payments exceeding the actual operating amount for the rest of Queensland. net profit. At this point it may be appropriate to The suggestion that the Board appears to have built ivory towers around them­ mention that the Townsville Turf Club has selves and are unapproachable is one of received from 1963 to 1974, a distribution •the most incredible statements I have total of $1,295,329. heard. In the Northern area Mr. Francis, I think it is generally accepted that it the previous Chairman of the North is the ambition of the club to provide the Queensland Racing Association, represents largest amount of prize money outside of that area on the Board, and I would find any capital city in Australia, and this is it hard to believe that he could be clearly demonstrated in the brochure described as unapproachable. Sir Gordon covering the Winter Carnival for 1974 Chalk, Minister in Charge of Racing, has which states that it is again 'the biggest, made •the statement in Parliament that he richest and greatest in Provincial Aus­ had been in my company on various tralia'. This is a very laudible objective occasions when the Doctor had spoken to provided the club is able to service the me and other members of the Board. prize money necessary to maintain this At this stage I would like to refer back position. to the reference to mismanagement. This Dr. Halberstater has been described as statement is very close to being defama- a top racing administrator, and he is a 1ory, and if Dr. Halberstater has any gentleman for whom I have .the greatest evidence at all to support his comment it personal respect. I must say, however, that should be forthcoming right now. To sug­ I find it difficult to reconcile his description gest that there is mismanagement either of the success record of the club over at Board or Management level whhout 1the years, with the Club's present financial supporting facts is unpardonable. Con­ position. versely it might be more to the point to 1204 Questions Upon Notice [10 OCTOBER 1974] Questions Upon Notice

say that a comment of this type would be Government to continue to provide to the more applicable ~o the manner in which people of Queensland the most compre­ the Townsville Turf Club had conducted hensive hospital and health service that its affairs. '!he economic resources of the State will allow." To conclude, I should like to say that whilst I am well aware that Dr. Halberstater has made quite a contribution to the racing industry generally, and also has a very high reputation as a medical HOUSING COMMISSION BUILDING SITES, practitioner, I would be tthe last person !NALA to advise him as to the manner in which he should operate in his particular profes­ Mr. Ahern for Mr. Lee, pursuant to notice, sion. In turn with the greatest of respect asked The Minister for Works,- I would suggesrt that he discontinue advis­ As the Queensland Housing Commission ing the Board and its management how to has some vacant building site's at Inala conduct the operation of the T.A.B. and as rthe sites are favourably suited for One thing is obvious, that any company, small blocks of flats or aged-persons units organization or club must live within its which are in great demand and for which means, and I recommend strongly tha:t this no provision has been made at Inala, will advice be taken to heart by the President he have these sites utilised in this manner? and his committee. The Totalisator Answer:- Administration Board " At Inala the Commission has 29 allot­ of Queensland ments in small groups which would pro­ (Sgd) A. Sakzewski vide excellent sites for 11 buildings con­ Sir Albert Sakzewski taining flats or aged persons units. The Chairman." sites are approved by the Commission for such purpose. The allotments are zoned Residential 'A' under the Town Plan. In accordance with the policy of co-operation A.C.T.U. STUDY OF HEALTH INSURANCE with local authorirties the Commis9ion, SCHEME on the last review of the Town Plan, requested the Brisbane City Council to Mr. Ahem for Mr. Bird, pursuant to notice, have the sites zoned Residential 'B' which asked the Mini~ter for Health,- is the applicable zoning for multiple ( 1) Is he aware that the A.C.T.U. dwellings. Council did not meet this executive decided recently to appoint a request coll'tending that to do so would committee to study the feasibility of produce isolated parcels of land zoned setting up a heaLth insurance scheme for multiple dwellings. Council nu doubt similar to existing health funds? acted on advice but it seems to me that, having regard to the specific locations (2) Does this indicate that the A.C.T.U. involved, it is most desirable that these realises that there are anomalies in the sites be used for single storey, or at the Commonwealth Government's proposed most two-storey, units. I have some National Health Scheme and that there reservations as to whether the practice will always be a need for heaUh funds? of congregating multiple dwellings only (3) In view of the disastrous results of ~in confined designated areas is completely previous A.C.T.U. ventures and the non­ sound. More recently when council desired appearance of its other grandiose schemes, to acquire a portion of one of these sites will he warn the people of Queensland of rthe Commission offered to have the area those results and caution them if this set aside as a reserve for local government scheme eventuates? purposes. As this would involve re-zoning, the council was asked to have the balance Answers:- of that site and also some other sites in (1) "My attention has been drawn to the immediate vicinity re-zoned at the a newspaper article, captioned 'Has Hawke same time to Residential 'B' or alterna­ laid another egg?', which stated that the rtively to indicate council concurrence with A.C.T.U. Executive decided to appoint a the erection of aged persons units thereon. working party to investigate the feasibility This seemed a reasonable proposition but of providing health insurance in direct council advised that it would not agree competition with the major health funds." to either proposal. The Commission can­ not waste the potential of these sites by (2 and 3) "I would say that irt must using them for single houses only and I be most difficult for the general public find the council attitude to be most frus­ to make up its mind, after reading this trating. The short Answer to the Hon­ article, whether to accept the advice of ourable Member's Question is that I am the Commonwealth Government in its more than willing to use these sites for health proposals or that advocated by the aged persons units or for flats immedi­ A.C.T.U. I can assure the Honourable ately the Brisbane City Council indicates Member that it will be the aim of this its concurrence, with or without re-zoning." Questions Upon Notice (10 OCTOBER 1974] Questions Upon Notice 1205

RAIL FREIGHT DIFFERENTIAL RATES dredger has firm commitments in Towns­ Mr. R. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked ville and Weipa harbours which could The Minister for Transport,- fully occupy her until her scheduled re,turn to Brisbane, for crew holidays and annual In view of the concern in the northern ,overhaul. If these commitments can be part of the State at the intolerable burden met in a shorter period, the dredger will of ,the payment of capital city prices, plus operate in Cairns harbour for whatever freight, plus handling charges, what is the time is available and is required by the Government's intention regarding the Cairns Harbour Board. Alternatively the implementation of recommendations con­ dredger would normally return to Cairns tained in the Scott & Co. report on rail­ in April, 1975." freight differentials? (2) "The harbours of Brisbane, Glad­ Answer:- stone, Port Alma, Mourilyan Cairns and "W. D. Scott & Company Pty. Ltd. Weipa call for 'the services' of the 'Sir were commissioned by the Provincial Thomas Hiley' to varying degrees. The Freight Study Committee, and not the dredger's annual programme of work is Governmen't, to prepare the report referred dra~rn up to meet these requirements, to. If the Honourable Member is imply­ havmg regard to economics, demand and ing that rail freight charges are con­ weather conditions. Such a programme tributing to price increases in North is, of course, subject to review in emerg­ Queensland, I would completely reject such ent circumstances, such as those which a suggestion. Government policy in this followed the severe floods in the Brisbane regard has been directly aimed at stabilis­ River in January 1974. This emergency ing prices. Transport and handling charges did in fact create a substantial set-back referred to by the Honourable Member are to the dredger's programme of work in legi'timate charges for services rendered. other ports including Cairns." Notwithstanding that there has been an Mr. R. Jones interjected. increase of 150 per cent. in the level of wages paid to railway men since November, Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: If the honour­ 1966, there has been no increase in rail able member for Cairns continues to inter­ freight rates since that date. In fact, ject during question time, I assure him I will there have been two reductions in rates take action against him. on certain commodities. Since the pub­ lication of the Scott Report, for instance, Schedule IIA of 'The Railway Goods Traffic By-law' has been abolished, and TRACTOR SAFETY LEGISLATION this has made a substantial reduction in Mr. Bromley, pursuant to notice, asked freight charges on many commodities con­ The Minister for Development,- veyed to North and North-western Queens­ land. The Honourable Member will In view of the increasing number of also be aware that many of the com­ accidents involving tractors, often resulting modities transported by rail constitute in deaths, and taking into consideration domestic requirements which are carried my requests in this House over the years for definite safety legislation to be intro­ at special contract rates considerably below duced to combat these accidents, what those prescribed in the 'The Railway Goods action is presently being taken and when Traffic By-law'. Any increase in the price will suitable legislation be introduced? of commodities in the Northern part of the State is due to factors other than the effect of rail freight rates." Answer:- "As the Honourable Member is aware, the Government has alreadv amended the First Schedule to the Inspection of Mach­ UsE OF DREDGE "SIR THOMAS HILEY" inery Act to enable regulations on tractor AT CAIRNS safety to be made. Discussions have been Mr. R. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked held with the Secretary, Queensland Coun­ The Minister for Conservation,- cil of Agriculture, representatives of the Queensland Cane Growers' Council, other ( 1) Has the dredge "Sir Thomas Hiley" primary industry bodies and of the tractor operated in Cairns during the current year manufacturers. It is expeoted that these and, if not, when will it be operating at Cairns and what period will be allocated? regulations will be promulgated in the near future." (2) If the dredging plant is not immedi­ ately available, will priority be granted for the dredge to be despatched ,to Cairns when urgently required? STATE PUBLIC SERVICE INTAKE Mr. Brom!ey, pursuant to notice, asked Answers:- The Premier,- ( 1) "The dredger 'Sir Thomas Hiley' What is the expected intake of (a) has not operated in Cairns harbour during males and (b) females for employment the year 1974. At the present time, the with the State Public Service for 1975? 1206 Questions Upon Notice [10 OCTOBER 1974] Questions Upon Notice

Answer:- Bundamba, and the intersection of the "The number of admissions to the highway with Blunder Road, Oxley, (a) Pub!,ic Service is dependent to a large during 1973 and (b) from January 1 extent upon the number of vacancies to date? created by staff required for expansion (2) How many fatalities have occurred of services and by resignations and retire­ as a result of the accidents during those ments occurring during 1he year." periods? Mr. Bromley: How many are you going to Answer:- put on? (! and 2) "During the calendar year Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! 1973, 300 accidents were recorded includ­ ing six accidents in which eight persons Mr. Bromley: You are always screaming were killed. From January 1, 1974 to about unemployment, yet you won't say date, 195 accidents were recorded includ­ what you are going to do. ing four accidents in which four persons Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I have were killed." reminded all honourable members about interject[ons during question time. I now warn the honourable member for South SITE FOR STATE HIGH SCHOOL, GOODNA Brisbane under the provisions if Standing Order 123A. Mr. Marginson, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Education,- Mr. BROMLEY: I rise to a point of order. Further to my Question of October 10, I asked a question about the number of 1973, regarding the construction of a employees, but I didn't get any answer. high school at Goodna- Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! There is ( 1 ) Has the purchase of the land at no point of order. I have warned the hon­ Queen Street been finalised? ourable member. He asked a question. It is (2) When will a high school be con­ within the discretion of the Premier, who structed there? answered the question, how he shall answer it. Answers:- Mr. Bromley: I still reckon he should ( 1) "The acquis~tion of land at Queen answer it properly. Street has not yet been finalised. Negotia­ tions are proceeding." (2) "It has not been possible to include HOUSING COMMISSION LAND, WOLSTON the pwvision of a high school at Goodna ELECTORATE in the current year's works program. Such provision will, however, be kept in mind Mr. Marginson, pursuant to notice, asked when future programs are being con­ The Minister for Works,- sidered." ( 1) How much land is owned or held by the Government in the Electorate of W olston for the purpose of constructing houses, particularly by the Queensland CAIRNS AND TRINITY BAY STATE HIGH Housing Commission, where is the land ScHOOLS situated and what is the area of each parcel? Mr. B. Wood, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Education,- (2) If no such land is held, will early ( 1) What are the present enrolments of action be taken to obtain land for the Cairns and Trinity Bay High Schools? construction of additional houses? (2) What are the projected enrolments Answer:- in each of the next three years? (3) Is the area of land on which the ( 1 and 2) "The information sought by Cairns High School is ,situated considered the Honourable Member involves con­ ,to be a suitable size for the school's siderable detail. I will have the particulars enrolment? taken out and will advise the Honourable Member." ( 4) In view of overcrowding at these schools, when will a new high school be built at Stratford to service the fast­ growing area north of Cairns? TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS ON BUNDAMBA CREEK BRIDGE-BLUNDER RoAD SECTION, Answers:- CUNNINGHAM HIGHWAY ( 1) "Cairns State High School, 1,067; Mr. Marginson, pursuant to notice, asked and Trinity Bay State High School, 972." The Minister for Works,- (2) "Cairns State High School-1975, (1) How many traffic accidents have 1,095; 1976, 1,090; and 1977, 1,075. Trinity been recorded on the Cunningham High­ Bay State High School-1975, 1,055; 1976, way between Bundamba Creek Bridge, 1,065; and 1977, 1,065." Questions Upon Notice [10 OCTOBER 1974} Questions Upon Notice 1207

( 3 ) "The area of land on which the Answers:- Cairns High School is situated is not an ( 1) "It was known that there would ideal size for a high school with the enrol­ be difficulties for some kindergartens and ment of that school. However, plans are day-care centres to comply with the in hand for the transfer of the technical regulations, particularly those centres college to a new site. This will release which are offering sub-standard services. more land and facilities to the school and Appreciating these difficulties, the reguJa­ will help to relieve any overcrowding that tions were promulgated on July 1, 1973 there might be at present." but did not come into force until July 1, ( 4) "In view of the fact that the enrol­ 1974. This was intended to give notice ments at both schools show signs of of the reguJations and their requirements' stability, it is not intended to build a and to afford persons offering kindergarten

VACATION RAIL FARE CONCESSION FOR from September 2, 1974 is $88.10 per STUDENTS week. Because of their volume, the inter­ Mr. Y ewdale, pursuant to notice, asked vening fluctuations are tabled." The Minister for Transport,- (2) "As the basic duties of lthese janitor/ ( 1) With reference to his Answer to a groundsmen are also quite wide and Question on August 27 relating to travelling voluminous, these are also tabled. Janitor I concessions for students, are boarding groundsmen's amenities include a lunch students at schools situated considerable room, toilet, shower and washing facilities. distances from their homes allowed con­ These are provided in all new schools cessional fares for vacation periods, even and are being progressively provided in though they may bypass a number of older schools." boarding schools between their school and home address? (3) "All Class I and Class II State primary schools, i.e., all those State prim­ (2) If not, will he elaborate on the ary schools with an effective enrolment reason why such concessions are not allow­ in excess of 300 pupils, totalling 290 at able? presell't, have janitor/groundsmen. The 1974-75 Budget provides for Class 3 (3) Will he review the travelling con­ primary schools with secondary depart­ cessions with regard to day students and ments or with enrolments of over 200 restore them? to have janitorI groundsmen as from the commencement of the 1975 school year. Answers:­ There are 87 such schools." (1) "Yes." ( 4) "All eligible schools have engaged ( 2) "See Answer to (1) ."' the services of a janitor/groundsman. Should any such school be presently with­ ( 3) "No. The present concession out the services of such an employee, this available to day students on vacation is would be due to the inability of ~he considered to be quite reasonable and as Principal to locate a suitable applicant stated in my reply to the Honourable for a position which has been vacated Member for Toowoomba South on August by a previous appointee." 27, 1974, the basis of the concession is in conformity with that adopted by the Papers.-Whereupon Sir Alan Fletcher Australian railway systems." laid upon the table of the House details of the salary fluctuaHons and basic duties referred to. STATE PRIMARY SCHODL JANITOR­ GROUNDSMEN Mr. Yewdale, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Education,- ( 1) What were the salaries paid to SUBSIDIES TO SPORTING BODIES school janitors at the commencement of Mr. Yewdale, pursuant to notice, asked their duties when the scheme was first The Minister for Tourism,- instituted, what have been the fluctuations (1 ) When will his Department of Sport since and what are the current salaries? be calling for applications for subsidies from forthcoming financial allocations? (2) What are their basic dutie~ and what amenities are provided at their places (2) Have all previous funds allocated of work? been disbursed? (3) How many schools have janitors (3) What is the amount al!oca

CoNSERVATION IN DEVELOPMENT OF department. I understand that in the LAND, KUMBARI AVENUE, SoUTHPORT case in question the work is quite accept­ Mr. D'Arcy, pursuant to notice, asked able to the Gold Coast City Council." The Minister for Lands,- ( 1) Is he aware that his department is QUES'l'IONS WITHOUT NOTICE developing more land off Kumbari A venue, Southport, and that it has shown com­ UsE OF AEROPLANE BY NATIONAL PARTY plete disregard for conservation by knock­ MEMBERS ing down every tree on the developmen~ Mr. TUCKER: Following .this morning's instead of selectively clearing, as was the Press announcement, I ask the Premier: arrangement? In what aeroplane will National Party organ­ (2) Will his department assure the isation members fly north to endorse candi­ people of Queensland that it will in future dates for three seats? protect the environment and give up prac­ tising vandalism in clearing its estate? Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: The honour­ able member knows very well that they (3) As the clearing was done against ce!'tainly would not be flying in the Govern­ the ordinances and wishes of the Gold ment aeroplane. If they are flying north, they Coast City Council, will he stop his depart­ will be flying in a charter aeroplane, and ment breaking council ordinances which it is their business which aerop1ane they fly apply to other developers? in.

Answers:- MT. GRAVATT HOSPITAL ( 1) "Yes, I am well aware of the Mr. CIDNCHEN: I ask the Minister for development proceeding off Kumbari Health: Can he give an assurance that the A venue, Southport, for residential pur­ intrusion of the Federal Government into poses, but I refute any suggestion of the planning of hospital services for the disregard for conservation. There are metropolitan area and surrounding areas will certain engineering problems associated in no way prejudice the development of a with the development of this area, and hospital at Mt. Gravatt? clearing was necessary to establish correct contours. It was unfortunate, too, that ~he Mr. TOOTH: I can give the honourable majority of the larger trees were located member a very firm assurance that it is the on the subdivisional roads •to be con­ intention of the State Health Department, structed, and which in any case have to with the approval of the Government, to be cleared completely. However, the proceed with the construction of a hospital clearing was kept as selective as was at Mt. Gravatt in accordance with the over­ possible having regard to those particular all planning of hosp[tal services for the circumstances." metropolitan area and south-eastern division (2) "I am sure that estate preparation of Queens1and. The first stage, which will be by my department has had proper regard an obstetrical hospital of 200 to 230 beds, to the environment, and I see no need will begin in a relatively short time, and the for the assurance suggested. In fact it development to a full acute hospital will has been contended from some sources that proceed so that it will meld in with .the total more timber should have been cleared [n programme in the early 1980's. some areas to facilitate building opera­ At the present time, building is proceeding tions. Surely the Honourable Member at Redcliffe, NamboRr, ·the Royal Brisbane realises that a practical approach must Hospital, the Princess Alexandra Hospital, be main~ained. I am surprused at his refer­ and the Ipswich hospital, and planning for ence to ¥anda!ism, which I can only see building is well advanced for Cherrnside and as an irresponsible choice of words, and is for Southport. These ·activities, together with in keeping with his previous criticisms of my big developments at the Mater Hospital and department which I deplore. I think the at projected private hospitals in Queensland, Honourable Member will also agree that will provide more than 1,000 beds. But when, the majority of home owners appear to in the early 1980's, as is expected, the prefer to improve their properties wit.h various tree and shrub spectes of thetr Griffith University will proceed to the estab­ own choice." lishment of a medical school, it will be neces­ sary to have an acute hospital at that site, (3) "Although the Crown is not par­ so that the training of doctors can proceed •ticularly bound by the By-laws of any here in Queensland at an accelerated pace. local authority, my department closely This gives me the opportunity of saying that c()-{)perates with all local authorities in the vital issue in the health services of this their requirements and has a most satis­ State is the shortage of professional staff, factory arrangement with all councils with and it is in this area that I once again plead with the Federal Government to take which it deals. In many cases the work effective action. on subdivis[onal projects is carried out by the local authority on behalf of my Mr. Marginson interjected. 1210 Questions Without Notice [10 OCTOBER 1974] Questions Without Notice

Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Ordeti"! I am completion od' the centre by two years­ not going to warn the honourable membeti" and this is rather frightening. It is planned for Wolston again. tlhat it be built over a period of about eight years, and if it were ,fo be !built on any other site than the one at Geelong-whether at PROPOSED NATIONAL ANIMAL HEALTH T1mbuktu or anywhere else-provided it was LABORATORY, MT. GRAVATT a site that did not need filling which would Mr. CHINCHEN: I ask the Minister fer take two years, and ~f there should be an Primary Industries: Is he aware that the outbreak of foot and mouth disease, my infor­ C.S.I.R.O. proposed to build a national mation is that construction could be hastened animal health laboratory to cost approxi­ and, if need be, completed within three or mately $65,000,000 and that a S'~te of 32 .!'our years. This is where the tragedy of acres owned by the Federal Government at the deoision lies. Our beef industry could Mt. Gravatt was considered for this complex? ,be exposed to this danger-and I believe it is being exposed-for two years or more Furthermore, is he also aware that there unnecessarily because of a political decision is every reason to believe that, owing to a made very unwisely by the Commonwealth politically motivated decis-ion, this complex Government. will now be buHt at Geetong? Is the Minister also aware that the use of Mr. P. Wood: Your Government refused the Geelong site will cost at least to build it at all. $10,000,000 more than the Mt. Gra¥att site Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! If ] because 1,200,000 cubic yards of filling is have occasion to warn the honourable mem­ necessary and the filling will take at least two ber for Toowoomba South again, I will do so years? Will he please endeavour to explain under Standing Order 123A. He knows what this two years' delay in completion of better than that. this laboratory could mean to the meat indus­ try if we had an outbreak of foot and mouth Mr. F. P. Moore interjected. disease in the intervening years? Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I sim­ ilarly warn the honourable member for Mr. SULLIVAN: I am aware od' what the Mourilyan. honourable member has outlined and I think that al! honourable members, on both sides Mr. SULLIVAN: Last year, when export of the House, should regard the situation markets were available to the beef industry, as very sel'ious indeed. it was worth $2,000 million to the State. Some years ago, when Sir John Row was So it will be seen that over a two-year Minister for Primary Industries in this State period the State could stand to lose $4,000 and Mr. lan Sinclair was the Minister in the million in the beef industry, and this is Federal Government, this matter was insti­ a very serious situation. gated. The Mt. Gravatt site was looked at I thank the honourable member for Mt. then and the advisory committee gave 1t a Gravatt for bringing this matter to my notice very high priority-! think No. 2-whereas as well as to the attention of the Premier Oeelong at that stage was not consi:dered or a week or so ago. I have given all the recommended. information available to me to the Deputy The honourable member said that it has Leader of the Country Party in Canberra been a political decision. My information is (Mr. Ian Sinclair) and to the Federal member that this is very true. Because od' the for Darling Downs, Mr. Tom McVeigh, who recession in the textile industry in Geelong, is also a member of the works committee. the Commonwealth Government has very Finally, I would hope that common sense­ unwisely decided to put this health centre at and a little bit of honesty-will prevail. Geelong. I say "unwisely" because I under­ I am not arguing against the selection by stand that one of the recommendations was the Federal Government of Geelong as the that it be sited in a oHmate that is not cold site-after all, the Federal Government has and wet. I do not sucppose one could find a the authority to make the decision-but for much colder or wetter dimate anywhere in God's sake let it adopt a common-sense Australia than at Geelong. approach and not use the beef industry as I have in my department a film in colour a political football. on the most recent outbreak of foot and mouth disease in England. With the per­ LIABILITY OF SHAREHOLDERS FOR DEBTS OF A mission of Mr. Speaker or Mr. Acting PERMANENT BUILDING SOCIETY Speaker, I propose to show this film for the benefit of honourable members one night Mr. NEWTON: I ask the Minister for while the House is sitting. It depicts the Justice: Are investors-that is, shareholders­ most frightening thing that one could imagine in a permanent building society that goes into happening to our cattle industry. liquidation liable for outstanding debts incurred by that society? The honourable member raised the quest­ ion of what wil! happen as a result of the Mr. KNOX: It is, of course, the practice requirement to fill this site whh 1,200,000 and rule of the House that Ministers cannot cubic yards of soil. This will delay the give legal opinions in answers to questions. Questions Without Notice [10 OCTOBER 1974] Questions Without Notice 1211

However, if the honourable member seeks INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION ON a ruling on this matter I suggest that he PROSTITUTION refer it to .the Registrar, who, I am sure, will give a ruling. Mr. MILLER: I ask the Minister for Health: With reference to the obligation Mr. Newton: I am only looking after accepted by the Opposition to legalise prosti­ the interests of both the borrowers and the tution if it becomes the Government, are investors. there any international agreements on this matter? AMALGAMATION OF LOCAL AUTIIORITY .AREAS Mr. TOOTH: Firstly, I thank the honour­ able member for giving me notice that he Mr. CORY: I ask the Premier: Has his proposed to ask this question. The former attention been drawn to a report to the Federal Liberal-Country Party Government effect that the South Australian Labor Gov­ accepted the International Convention for ernment plans to eliminate approximately the Suppression of Traffic in Persons and 45 local authorities in that State? Further, of the Exploitation of the Prostitution of is he aware that this move is in line with Others. In consequence of that acceptance the A.L.P. policy of reducing local govern­ by the national Government, it was necessary ment to a series of huge regional councils for the State laws to be amended, in par­ that will be dependent on Canberra for ticular the Health Act, to remove any finance? Finally, will the Premier give an reference whatsoever to the existence of assurance that his Government will totally prostitution. That was done some time ago oppose such a policy? so that we would conform to the international obligation accepted by the national Govern­ Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: The action that ment. It is important to understand that is to be taken by the South Australian there is a major traffic in women and girls Premier (Mr. Dunstan) was reported in throughout the world-involving hundreds yesterday's Press. He intends reducing the annually-in forced prostitution. It is because number of local authorities in that State of this that Australia has adhered to that by 49, and this move clearly indicates the convention-not because there was any great policy of the Labor Party. problem in respect of Australia itself, but Mr. Sherrington: It's his business, not because of the necessity to indicate to the world generally where Australia stood. yours. For the information of honourable mem­ Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I now bers I propose to read the articles of this warn the honourable member for Salisbury convention. Article 1 reads- under the provisions of Standing Order 123A. "The Parties to the present Convention agree to punish any person who, to Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: This is indeed gratify the passions of another: a matter for the South Australian Govern­ 1. Procures, entices or leads away, for ment; nevertheless it is important that I the purposes of prostitution, another warn the local authorities in Queensland that person, even with the consent of that the Labor Opposition in this State is com­ person; mitted to the reduction from 131 local 2. Exploits the prostitution of another authority areas to 10 regions. This is in person, even with the consent of that conformity with the Opposition's agreement person." with its colleagues in Canberra. If the Article 2 reads- Opposition is elected to office it will drastically reduce the number of local authorities. This "The Parties to the present Convention is A.L.P. policy, as espoused by the Common­ further agree to punish any person who: wealth Government, and it will be imple­ 1. Keeps or manages, or knowingly mented by the Leader of the Opposition finances or takes part in the financing if ever he becomes Premier. of a brothel; 2. Knowingly lets or rents a building Opposition Members interjected. or other place or any part thereof for the purpose of the prostitution of Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I do others." not propose to warn honourable members The obligations of this country are very again. The next honourable member who clearly defined. It is a matter of very grave interjects during question time will be concern that any political party should adopt ~everely dealt with. a policy that cuts across that international convention. Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: In conclusion -we believe in local government. The COMMONWEALTH GOVERNMENT MINERALS 131 local authorities throughout the State PoLicY are playing a vital role, and we have no intention whatever of reducing their number. Mr. WHARTON: I ask the Premier: Has Over the years we have demonstrated our his attention been dmwn to the reports attitude against the policy of those members appearing on the front pages of "The Courier­ who now sit in Opposition. Mail" and "The Australian" relating to the 1212 Questions Without Notice [10 OcTOBER 1974] Questions Without Notice

about-face of the Prime Minister on his A.L.P. PROPOSAL TO LEGALISE PROSTITUTION minerals policy? Is he aware that the Prime AND HOMOSEXUALITY Minister is now proposing what Queensland has always proposed? Will he ensure that Mr. AIKENS: I ask the Premier: Has he the Leader of the State Opposition is pro­ been advised that the A.L.P., if elected to vided with full details of the Queensland government at the next election, proposes and Commonwealth Government policies on not only to legalise prostitution and homo­ minerals so that he can now change his sexuality but also to nationalise them and tune? to establish a ministry of prostitution and homosexuality? If so, wJll a special Act have Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: There is no to be passed by Parliament to enable a question that again the Commonwealth has minister for homosexuality and prostitution been forced to change its attitude and policy to be appointed? and revert to the policy adopted by this Govemment from the beginning, which Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The brought about this State's tremendous devel­ Premier may answer that at his discretion. opment. However, the Commonwealth Gov­ Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: I assure the ernment's policy has not been changed before honourable member of one thing: we on this damage has been done; before we lost the side of the House would never dream of Weipa complex, which would have provided thousands of jobs; before we lost the uranium­ taking action such as he says that the Leader enrichment plant, a $1,000 million under­ of the Opposition proposes if he becomes taking; or before the $250,000,000 coal pro­ the Leader of this State. ject in Central Queensland was delayed years Mr. Tucker: This is an abuse of question ago. time. After the damage has been done, the Prime Ministe11 has now belatedly woken up to the Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! fact that the A.L.P.'s policy is entirely wrong Mr. Davis interjected. and he is now prepared to admit his error. I assure the honourable member for Burnett Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I remind that I appreciate the significance of the the Leader of the Opposition and the hon­ Prime Minister's statement that he now recog­ ourable member for Brisbane that questions nises the mistake. In so doing, however, he are asked in accordance with Standing Orders has dumped his colleagues in Queensland. and answered at the discretion of the approp" Honourable members opposite must be riate Minister or the Premier. exceedingly disappointed in having followed Mr. F. P. Moore interjected. him and his policies. The Leader of the Opposition and members opposite have con­ Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I now tinually condemned our policy, claiming that warn the honourable member for Mourilyan we were wrong. Now they will have to admit under Standing Order 123A for speaking that we were right. That must hurt them whilst I am on my feet. greatly. I see the ex-Leader of the Opposition smiling in agreement with what I say. Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: It is quite clear, ,as the honourable member for Towns­ QUEENSLAND UNIVERSITY MEDICAL ville South said, that honourable members FACULTY QUOTAS opposite are vitally interested in this subject. They are committed to it. If they ever have Mr. AIKENS: I ask the Minister for the opportunity they intend to enforce it. Education: Has a quota been imposed by I do not know whether they will nationalise the Queensland University on the number of it or not. students wishing to enrol in the medical faculty? If so, does the quota restriction A Government Member interjected. apply to foreign students? If not, is any Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: They will. action proposed to end the intolerable scandal They are prepared to do anything for whereunder Australian students are denied political gain or political benefit. That is the opportunity to qualify as doctors while clear. I repeat-how despicable this is of foreign students are allowed to qualify at honourable members opposite. They can the Queensland University and then, by the wriggle and turn as the honourable member grace of the Federal A.L.P. Government, for Rockhampton did this morning, but they remain lin Aus,uralia to practise as doctors cannot escape their responsibilities, and they while Queenslanders seek jobs as bottle are committed to this policy. They support collectors and rag-pickers? it and go along with it. As I said yesterday, Sir ALAN FLETCHER: The honourable I have nothing but contempt for people like member has not done me the courtesy of them who are prepared to go along with indicating that he intended asking this ques­ this sort of thing in this day and age, dis­ tion. I do not believe I could be expected regarding the United Nations declaration to be in the confidence of the Queensland and all the rest of it. They should come out University about the details of its quota and say that they dissociwte themselves from policies. I ask the honourable member to put the policies of a party or organisation that his question on notice. has stooped to this level. Time will tell. Questions Without Notice [10 OcTOBER 1974] Supply 1213

Obviously they will not become the Govern­ I say to the honourable member for ment. On this issue alone, the people would Hinchinbrook, who represents Palm Island, certainly discard them. that the visit of the Saunders brothers is another attempt to undermine a department ACTIVITIES OF SAUNDERS BROTHERS AT that has done a creditable job in the State. ABORIGINAL COMMUNITIES, CAPE YoRK For heaven's sake let it get on with the job, PENINSULA because no-one will get anywhere by play­ ing politics with human beings. Mr. ROW: I ask the Minister for Con­ servation, Marine and Aboriginal Affairs: Is the Minister aware of the activities, on Cape REVOCATIONS OF STATE FORESTS York Peninsula, of persons described as the Hon. W. A. R. RAE (Gregory-Minister Saunders brothers? If so will he inform the for Lands and Forestry): I move- House of their purpose? "(1) That this House agrees that the Mr. N. T. E. HEWITI: I can fully proposal by the Governor in Council to appreciate the honourable member's concern revoke the setting apart and declaration in this regard, especially as he is the member as a State forest of all that piece or who represents Palm Island. We know what part of State Forest 302, parishes of transpired there very recently. Athlone, Ballon, Bembil, Brownlie, Buchan, Burraburri, Cooaga, Coondarra, Delger, At present, my information is that one of Goldsmith, Hookswood, MacDon2.ld, Mal­ the Saunders brothers is named Reg. He is colm, Nudley, Pelham, Quandong, War­ quite a respectable gentleman. He was a ranna and Wongongera, described as Area captain in the Army. He is liaison officer 'A' in the parish of Warranna, as shown of the day wi·th the department in Canberra. on plan FTY. 651 made and prepared The other brother is named Keith. He is by the Surveyor-General and deposited in with the N.A.C.C., a body which was set up the office of the Conservator of Forests by the Commonwealth Government. It has and containing an area of 187 hectares, done nothing whatsoever, as far as I am be carried out. concerned, to help relations between the "(2) That Mr. Speaker convey a copy State and Federal departments. of this resolution to the Minister for sub­ It is a pity that this sort of thing shou1d mission to His Excellency the Governor take place. I understand that these two in Council." gentlemen are presently touring settlements Motion agreed to. in Cape York Peninsula in an endeavour to stir up further trouble between this State and Hon. W. A. R. RAE (Gregory-Minister the Commonwealth. My info.rmation is that for Lands and Foresty): I move- they are endeavouring to get s•ix people from "(1) That this House agrees that the the various communities to attend a confer­ proposal by the Governor in Council to ence to be held in Cairns between 14 and revoke the setting apart and declaration 16 October. There has been no communica­ as a State forest of the whole of the tion whatever with my department about State Forest 278, parish of Hercules, con­ their visit. As honourable members know, taining an area of about 1 688 hectares, there are at present elected councils to deal be carried out. with the problems of these communities, "(2) That Mr. Speaker convey a copy and they are not very pleased that the of this resolution to the Minister for gentlemen to whom I have referred are visit­ submission to His Excellency the Governor ing settlements with the object of selecting in Council." six men who have virtua1ly no stil!nding in Motion agreed to. their communities. They are travelling, at Commonwealth expense, by charcter aircraft, and no doubt that is costing a pretty penny. SUPPLY This is the type of aotiv·ity that will do COMMITTEE-FINANCIAL STATEMENT­ no good for a cause for which we should all RESUMPTION OF DEBATE be fighting. We should be making efforts to unite in the interests of Aborigines. But (Mr. Wharton, Burnett, in the chair) what is happening? The Commonwealth is Debate resumed from 8 October (see p. sending people around the settlements in 117 4) on Sir Gordon Chalk's motion- an endeavour to undermine the State "That there be granted to Her Majesty, department. Heaven knows, the Common­ for the service of the year 1974-75, a wealth Government has sufficient problems sum not exceeding $96,262 to defray in its own backyard in the Noruhern Territory Salaries-His Excellency the Governor." that it has no chance of solving because it has not the necessary ~taff and the know-how. Mr. P. WOOD (Toowoomba South) (12.10 The greatest problems in Queensland are in p.m.): I want to read, first of all, from the the Camooweal and Mt. Isa areas where Treasurer's Financial Statement for 1973, in Abof'igines are crossing the border and enter­ respect of education. He said- ing this State from the Northern Territory. "For many years now the percentage The State Government then has to look after of the State's expenditure programme them. devoted to education has been increased 1214 Supply [10 OcroBER 1974] (Financial Statement)

and the pattern continues in 1973-74. negate the effects of the Whitlam Gov­ Allowing for the reduction of tertiary ernment's education programme. The Queens­ education expenditure, the overall total land Government would play with the educa­ allocated for educational services this year tion of Queensland children in an effort to will be $170,458,089 which represents 21.8 score against the Australian Government. per cent of the total Consolidated Revenue Mr. Frawley: That is a deliberate untruth Fund budget." and you know it. So said the Treasurer last year. He could not make a similar claim this year. What did Mr. P. WOOD: Look at the figures. he say in 1972 on the presentation of the Mr. Frawley: We have done more for Financial Statement? He said this- education than your rotten Government ever "For a decade and a half now education did. has been given priority for State funds and the rate of increase in allocations for Mr. P. WOOD: We are now going back­ our education services over these years wards, despite the funds received from the has been greater than the rate of interest Australian Government. This Government has in the State's resources. To illustrate this few priorities in education. The other day, point I would mention that in 1957-58 we heard the Premier, in the amazing the appropriations for education repre­ motion he presented against the Opposition sented 24.2 per cent of the Consolidated Leader, complaining about the Common­ Revenue resources of the State Govern­ wealth Government's reduction in tax deduc­ ment whereas this financial year they repre­ tions for education expenses from $400 to sent 33 per cent of those resources." $150. That is the only occasion on which I have heard the Premier complain in the So for the past two financial years, in the interests of education. He has not raised presentation of the Financial Statement, the his voice in protest against overcrowded Treasurer has boasted about the increase in schools or against temporary classrooms, nor funds given to education represented as a has he complained about inadequate play­ percentage share of Consolidated Revenue. grounds. He has not protested against the This year, the Treasurer does not make that disadvantages suffered by migrant and boast, because he cannot. This year the per­ Aboriginal children or about the problems centage share of funds from Consolidated encountered by handicapped children. As I Revenue spent on education is in decline. say, the only complaint we have heard from It is in decline despite the fact that we are the Premier was against the reduction in the getting large contributions from the Federal income tax deductibility of education Government, through the Karmel funds, which expenses. We know that the interest of did not apply in previous years except for Queensland school-children is very low on last year, when an amount in excess of the Premier's list of priorities. $5,000,000 was mentioned in the Budget. It is quite clear that the State Govern­ This year, the appropriation from the Karmel ment is now cutting back its efforts in funds for Queensland, as mentioned under education. It is sponging, if I might use the Education in the Treasurer's Financial State­ term, on the Australian Government's funds ment, is $16,500,000. for education. In the Financial Statement All the Treasurer says this year is ·that presented last year by the Treasurer he there is a massive increase in the provisions boasted that 21.8 per cent of funds from for education. In fact, we are going back­ Consolidated Revenue were directed towards wards. The purported increase is not repre­ education. This year the percentage has sented in percentage terms and in fact the dropped-in spite of the fact that massive education programme in the State Budget sums of money are now coming to the is moving backwards this year rather than State from the Australian Government as forward. The increase, massive as it may a result of the Karmel report. Despite the appear on paper, is more apparent than real. $16,500,000 mentioned by the Treasurer­ The State had already expended $206,000,000 that is not the total Karmel money-the in ·the last financial year, although it had State's effort in education is being seriously allocated less than that. The increase cut back. This is a tragedy. from the amount expended in the last financial The object of the Karmel funds was the year to the amount allocated in this financial raising of the standard of all Australian year is from $206,000,000 to $230,000,000. schools to an acceptable level by the end That is a relatively small increase and most of this decade. If the present programme of it will be absorbed in increased salaries. implemented by the Queensland Government We will not see a significant expansion of is continued in future years, the schools in services. At best, we will be marking time. this State simply will not meet that standard. In fact, I think we are going backwards. Rather will they fall behind. In effect, the increase in expenditure this I find it hard to believe that the Queens­ year is quite miserable. I think the Govern­ land Government is totally indifferent to an ment, in its allocation of funds for education improvement in the quality of education faci­ is disclosing its deliberate attempt to b~ lities in this State. Is it that the State unco-operative with the Australian Gov­ Government desires to sabotage the efforts ernment. It is a deliberate attempt to of the Australian Government? As I have Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1215 said, the Premier protested against the can we put on what is outlined in the reduction in the income tax deductibility of Financial Statement? It would be more to education expenses-and he came in kicking the point if during the debate on the Educa­ and screaming-but on this issue we do not tion Estimates we could have explained to see that. us where we will get all these teachers. The Treasurer's Financial Statement is a I am sure that the resignation rate of prospectus of dubious value. For example, ~teachers is causing serious problems in the in it he says- Depa11tment of Education. If we could reduce "The major additional cost in the educa­ it we would do a lot to overcome recruit­ tion allocations is in the provision for ing pmblems. We seem to be attacking the an additional 2,287 teachers ..." resignation problem from the wrong end. He points out that that represents an increase We go overseas for replacements when we in teacher strength of 14 per cent. That should be doing more to establish a stable, sounds very impressive; but I wonder where satrsfied teaching service. those additional teachers will come from. In last year's Financial Sl!atement the On 12 September this year I asked the Treasurer told us that we would be getting Minister for Education- additional music teachers, social workers and remedial teachers. A lot of effort was to "What are the details of student teachers be devoted to recruiting remedial tea~hers. who are expected to enter his department Funds allotted by the Australian Government in 1975 ...?" under the Karmel Report were to go a long In answer to that question the Minister for way to encoumging special teaching and the Education said- work of remedial teachers, but last year "Estimated appointments of student there was no visible effort-- teachers to the State Teaching Service as A Government Member: There was in from the beginning of the following my 'area, anyway. academic years are:-1975, 1,600 . . ." In other words, 1,600 teachers will enter the !V1r. P. WOOD: I have not detected any service from teachers' colleges-and the evtdence of the extm music teachers· the Government is looking for 2,287 teachers! music teachers do not number more tha'n the The Minister, in answer to another ques­ 50 or 60 rhey did about 12 months ago. tion, told the House that this year one This morning the Minister for Education teacher in six will resign from the Education said that we have three social workers, but Department. On 27 August this year, in we were to get seven. It does not seem giving details of resignations from the teach­ that much has been achieved since the Bud­ ing service, he told us that in the first ge,t was introduced last year. seven months of this year the Education Mr. B. Wood: Has the Minister told us Department lost through resignation a total lately about the teachers of stringed instru­ of 1,672 teachers. As I have said, next ments we were supposed to be getting? year the department expects to obtain the services of 1,600 new teachers. These figures Mr. P. WOOD: We were supposed to be mean that a number equal to the new getting them. I do not know how many teachers will be lost in the first seven months we have. We have between 50 and 60 of next year. Yet the Treasurer is hoping music teachers in our schools. The pro­ to obtain 2,287 teachers. I do not know gramme outlined in the Budget last year has how he will do it. not rbeen fulfilled. I should like social The Treasurer salid 1last year in his Finan­ workers to he encouraged to enter the cial Statement that we would recruit teachers Department of Education. If the employ­ from overseas. Abount 800 have now arrived. ~ent of three social workers represents the We are now losing some of that intake Implementation of a prom~se made in the through resignations. The dissatisfaction Budget last year in this field, how much in the Queensland teaching service caused respect can we give the other stories in the by the influx of overseas teachers Budget this year? I do not know how is leading already to a higher resignation much three social workers will be able to rate. I do not know whether the 800 over­ do for all the children in our schools. seas recruits are included in the 2,287 . The tragedy of Vhis Budget is that under teachers referred to by the Treasurer. If 1t we are barely plodding along at the slow all of them are included in the estimate of pace that has always been set. The Karmel teachers for next year, 1,500 teachers will grants were designed to lift standards have to be recruited from somewhere or quickly and to allow schools and education­ other. I do not know where they will come ists in Queensland to achieve what could not from. be done before because of lack of money. The Treasurer's estimate of teacher recruit­ Most of the $230,000,000 referred to by the ment has never been fulfilled !in any year. In Treasurer in his Hnancia! Statement will go the 1972 Budget he said 1lhat the State would in salaries, with 1ittle left over for the get 14,320 teachers, but by 1 August 1972, additional ~hings that teachers and educa­ recruitment had fallen several hundred short, tionists so often want done. The Karmel and last year the total number of teachers funds were to be 'additional funds to let continued to decline. How much reliance teachers and educationists do the extra things 1216 Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) they had wanted for so long to do. The aides and special education services, and State Government is now cutJting back its to make additional grants for libraries and efforts and we are no .better off. The Karmel improved equipment. However, if the Queens­ funds wiH make little impact in Queen&J.and land Government had entered into the spirit beoause of the reduced effort by the State of the Karmel report, much more would be in this area. done. Mr. Chinchen: Because of the Federal Let us look at some of the funds available Government's inflation. That is why, and to Queensland Government schools following you know it. the Karmel report. Mr. R. E. Moore: How can the Karmel Mr. P. WOOD: There is an inflationary report have access to funds? Whose funds? problem, but the Schools Commission has Where does the money come from? made available an additional $75,000,000 for all States specifically as compensation An Opposition Member: Keep quiet. for that reason. Mr. B. Wood interjected. Mr. Chinchen: We got $16,000,000, and The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. you know it. Wharton): Order! Mr. P. WOOD: If the honourable member Mr. P. WOOD: The figures I am referring thinks that as a result of the Karmel report to are in relation to Government schools the Government received $16,000,000 and only. Significant funds have been made no more, he has been fooled; he has been available to non-Government schools also. deceived. But I am talking about the funds recom­ mended for Queensland Government schools Mr. Chinchen: This financial year. by the Karmel Committee and accepted by Mr. P. WOOD: There is much more the Australian Government in its States available to the Queensland Government out Grants (Schools) Act. of Karmel funds than the $16,000,000 men­ It is difficult to correlate exactly the tioned in the Budget. The honourable Karmel funds (using that simple phrase) member is not honest in this. with the Treasurer's Financial Statement, because, while the Treasurer's Financial Mr. Chinchen: I am talking about this Statement refers to the financial year July year. 1974 to June 1975, the Karmel funds are Mr. P. WOOD: A lot more money than for the calendar years 1974 and 1975. I that is available. I am afraid the honourable make it clear, therefore, that the figures I member does not read very deeply. ·am citing are for the calendar years 197 4 and 1975 and that only part of 'the funds Mr. Chlnchen: A total of $230,000,000 is will appear in the Treasurer's Financial provided in the Budget, $16,000,000 of which Statement. is from Karmel funds. The following funds are being provided Mr. P. WOOD: I will show the honourable by the Australian Government for Queens­ member Budget papers that will prove his land Government schools:- reading and knowledge to be very shal1ow $ indeed. I invite him to continue listening General Building Grants .. -13,600,000 to me. Recurrent expenditure for In the Treasurer's Financial Statement 1974 7,900,000 under the heading "Education" he mentioned Recurrent expenditure for $16,000,000 from Karmel funds. However, 1975 ,17,000,000 capital works in the State Budget include Libraries 4,500,000 further Karmel funds, which are not specific­ Library training 500,000 ally mentioned. The Treasurer either glossed Dis·advantaged schools capi­ over them or did not mention them. How­ 4,400,000 ever, I will deal with that later on. tal grant Special schools capital Sir Gordon Chalk: You're an amateur. grant 3,000,000 Mr. P. WOOD: I will be corrected if I Special schools recurrent need to be. expenditure 1,600,000 Special Education courses 1,300,000 S"Ir Gordon Chalk: Read right through the Budget. Teacher Improvement and Development 1,300,000 Mr. P. WOOD: I haven't finished yet. I Pre-school recurrent and have only just begun. Capital Work 1,400,000 Funds were recommended under the I would hope that, as a result of the amount Karmel report to enable educationists to provided for special education courses, the undertake extra activities. So far we have remedial teachers the Treasurer spoke about been able to do only a limited amount. The last year will materialise. I repeat that the Karmel funds have allowed the Queensland figures I have cited are for the calendar Government to enter the area of teacher years 1974 and 1975. Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1217

I have mentioned some areas only which Queensland for technical education. In 1974- relate to Government schools, though the 75 the estimate is $6,800,000--H times as last figure was for pre-schools; but have a much. And Government members are silent! look at what the Australian Government has A summary of what the Australian Gov­ done in respect of grants for education in ernment programmes are doing for Queens­ Queensland in areas outside Government land schools is as follows: total Aus­ schools. Our universities are now totally tralian Government grants to Government funded by the Australian Government. and non-Government schools for 1972-73 Sir Gordon Chalk: At the expense of the amounted to $10,600,000. They have been financial system. increased in the present financial year to $56,800,000. The amount granted to Gov­ Mr. P. WOOD: I realise that. ernment and non-Government schools in that short period has increased by 5t times. Sir Gordon Chalk: Then why skite about The Treasurer took me to task before it? when I said that the $16,000,000 mentioned in the Financial Statement as being Karmel Mr. P. WOOD: The Treasurer should not funds was not all the Karmel money that forget that there is an advantage. He ought is available. On page 12 of the Financial to remember all of the projects at the Statement the Treasurer said- University of Queensland which lapsed because the Queensland Government could "The Capital Works Program is the not keep up with the matching grants. State's program for overall expenditures on capital works financed from Govern­ Sir Gordon Chalk: The Commonwealth ment loan funds, debenture borrowings, put in no more money than it took from specific purpose Commonwealth grants and us. other State funds." The Karmel funds are making available Mr. P. WOOD: The university is a lot for capital works something like $32,000,000 better off because it now does not have for Queensland education over two calendar the matching grants system under which the years. The Treasurer's Financial Statement Queensland Government was able to say, refers to a single financial year, whereas "We are sorry, but we cannot match the the capital works programme of the Austra­ grants that have been made available by lian Schools Commission, or the Karmel the Australian Government." Many university Committee, is for two calendar years. It projects lapsed over the years because of is difficult therefore to make precise com­ the wretched system of matching grants parisons. However, over a period of two under which the Commonwealth would make years the amount provided by the Australian certain moneys available only if the State Government for capital works for Govern­ could match them. In so many cases the ment schools will be $14,000,000, or there­ State could not match them. I am not in abouts. I am referring to the amounts in a position to say that the State could or round figures. For libraries, the amount could not match them; according to the allocated will be $4,800,000; for disadvan­ Government the State's financial position was taged schools, $2,400,000; for special schools, such that it could not match them and many $3,000,000; and for teacher development, of the projects lapsed. This matching $1,000,000. These are all capital works grants system has now ended and the grants from the Australian Government and university is much better off being financed they total approximately $25,000,000. by Aul'tralian Government funds. In 1972-73 the amount of money provided by the For pre-school programmes for 1973-74, Australian Government for universities was $1,000,000 was allocated, and, for technical $13,000,000. This has gone up by four education in 1974-75, $6,500,000 is to be times to $53,000,000. We acknowledge at made available. Those figures bring the the same time that the financial respon­ total for capital works to approximately sibilities of the Queensland Government have $32,000,000 or $33,000,000 for two years. ceased. Obviously that sum will not be reflected exactly in the capital works programme as Much the same applies to colleges of set out in the Treasurer's Financial State­ advanced education. Australian Government ment, but part of it-$16,000,000, if it grants to those colleges in Queensland were was half-is reflected in it. However, no $6,700,000 in 1972-73 and the Queensland acknowledgment is made in the capital works Government had some responsibility for funds programme of the funds that will be coming over and above that amount. Allowing for to this State from the Australian Govern­ that, the Australian Government grants have ment. The only mention is of specific pur­ increased from $6,700,000 to $34,500,000 pose Commonwealth grants. I think we -five times as much. should be told what those specific grants Under successive Conservative Federal are. Governments technical education was the I am sorry that the Queensland Gov­ cinderella of education. It was the neglected ernment has not seen fit to follow the spirit and ignored sector of education. In 1972-73 of the Karmel report and attempt to improve (the last year of the Conservative Federal the standard of Queensland schools to an Government) $1,900,000 was allocated to acceptable level by the end of this decade. 1218 Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement)

The Government has fallen behind in meet­ Some decisions in these respects were made ing its responsibilities, and it is the children at the recent Labor-in"Politics Convention in Queensland schools who are the victims in Cairns. Members on the other side of of this policy. So much more could be the Chamber have not said much about done if the Queensland Government matched these decisions. They have looked at others. the determination of the Australian Govern­ ment to improve schools. Mr. R. E. Moore: When are you going to start your speech? The Treasurer mentioned his policy on remedial education, and he said that he Mr. P. WOOD: If I may move on to was going to do something about it. We another area of education, I also believe have not seen much evidence of any action. that there is insufficient co~operation between There will, I know, be an accelerated effort the schools and the community, and ~t would in this direction in the Education Depart­ be the aim of a Labor Government to ment and some of the training institutions foster a spirit of interest and a spirit of next year. I and my colleagues on this co-operation between the schools, the home side of the Chamber believe that a great and the community. effort is needed to help children who have learning difficulties. I firmly believe that Mr. Frawley: That is rot. You want to this should be done with as little segre­ do away with the p. and c's, and you know gation as possible. Given favourable cir­ it. You don't want to have co-operation. cumstances of class size, trained teachers, specialist assistance and equipment, children Mr. P. WOOD: The honourable member with learning problems should be able to continual'ly displays his complete ignorance. remain in the normal class-room for most I wiU quote to him from motions that were of the time. When it is necessary to passed at the Labor-in-Politics Convention. remove them from the classroom for We propose to expand the role of parents specialised individual or group work, proper and citizens' associations, and we propose to equipment, space and teachers should be allow them to have the management and provided. An Australian Labor Party Gov­ control of school property after normal school ernment would do this. In Government, we hours. Lt is a crazy situation that expensive would provide remedial teachers, resource school facilitJes are lying idle for long periods teachers, and specialist advisers in schools, in the aftemoon, at week-ends and during and we would upgrade considerably the vacations. efforts made in special education services. Mr. R. E. Moore: It should be done, but I think there is a need to review the someone should be controlling it to prevent policy being followed in opportunity schools. vandalism and things of that type. I think the time has come to examine thoroughly the role of opportunity schools, Mr. P. WOOD: ~he honourable member and to put back into the ordinary classroom asked me a moment ago when I was going many children who are now in opportunity to start making my speech. The interjection schools. Their place is in the normal class­ he has just made indicates that he did not room. Given properly trained teachers, small listen to a remark I made a sentence eaDlier. classes, suitable equipment and specialist ser­ For the benefit of the honourable member, vices, they would be better off in a normal I repeat that we propose to expand the role classroom. A number of children will still of the p. and c. to manage schools after require opportunity school education for the hours. The A.L.P. has adopted the attitude specific vocational training given in those that it is not the responsibility of the prin­ places. These are things that could be cipal and teachers to manage the school after done if the Queensland Government matched normal school hours. Their responsibilities the spirit of the Australian Government in are already sufficient. What the Labor Party education. Handicapped children need proposes-! put it to the convention at additional facilities. Cairns and it was adopted enthusiastically­ At the other end, perhaps, we ought to is to make funds available to expand the p. make special provision for children who have and c. organisations to allow them to employ special talents and abilities-gifted children people--;we are not looking for volunteers -and an Austm1ia:n Labor Party Govern­ -to supervise school faoili~ies and school ment in Queensland would seek to foster premises. These people may be craftsmen excellence and ,!Jhe development of chi'ldren who can teach oraft work-pottery, art, or with particular gi£ts. They are nort: given something of ,that nature-or they may be much attention. We hear a lort: of talk people qualified by achievement in the field today about the needs of disadvantaged and of sport, or they may be people capable of handicapped children. We do not seem to supervising p:Jay groups or with some ability have given much attention to the needs of that can be used in schools. g~fted children. A ILabor Government Mr. Miller: How much would this cost? would propose to provide special education Have you costed your project? opportunities for students who have demon­ strated their ability in a particular field of Mr. P. WOOD: We have made a very study-for example, scientific, Nterary, artistic rough costing on it. or music studies. This is an area of educa­ tion that has been largely ignored. Mr. Miller: How much would it cost? Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974) (Financial Statement) 1219

Mr. P. WOOD: That is for the policy put up proposals as to what Mr. Tucker speech. as Premier and I and other members on this side will do when we are in Govern­ Mr. Miller: Do you mean that the con­ ment, while honourable members opposite vention passed someth~ng and you cannot simply sit back and ridicule the whole idea. estimate what it will cost? Mr. P. WOOD: I can estimate what it Opposition Members interjected. will cost, but I will not tell the honourable member. He can wait till the Leader of Mr. P. WOOD: They can accept that the Opposition makes his po1icy speech, responsibility if they want to. because there are other things ~hat will have be costed, too. Mr. W. D. Hewitt: What is your feeling to about p. and c's. participatting in appointments Mr. Miller: You have not the faintest in the teaching service? idea what it will cost. Mr. P. WOOD: We have thought about Mr. P. WOOD: The funds required are it but we do not propose to make any altera­ not large. If the honourable member wishes tion at all in the employment and transfer to leave school facilities lying idle, that is of teachers. That is an Education Depart­ his business. ment responsibility. The education committee Mr. Frawley: There are many schools of my party examined whether school boards where the playgrounds are now used at should be established and given the right of week-ends. I can show them to you. employing teachers and so on, and we rejected tit. I appreciate that question. At least it is Mr. P. WOOD: There are many more asked in a sensible fashion, unlike the inter­ that are never used, and Labor proposes .to jections of some of the people sitting behind see that they are used. the honourable member. There is the problem of what are called As I said, we would like to see an expanded latch-key children. The situation absolutely interest by the community in education. What dismays me. To give an example-! was at are the other things we want to do in this a mee1Jing of pre-school teachers recently area? I will quote from the policy that and one of them told me that a kiddy was was passed at our conventtion. It reads- left at her pre-school centre at 7 o'clock in the morning. This is a pre-school; the child­ "14. Labor recognises the need to foster ren are 4-year-olds. It also happens with community interest and participation in older children at primary schools and I education. suppose it happens at high schools. Children Labor proposes- are left there early in the morning. I do not approve of this. I think 1t is outrageous. (i) To allow for wider participation in devising of curricula by- Mr. B. Wood: They have to employ (a) encouraging submissions from social workers because of the poliC!ies of the the community to Syllabus Sub­ Government. Committees; Mr. P. WOOD: That may be so. We do (b) providing that interim reports not approve of it but it is a fact we are be issued by Syllabus Committees for stuck with whether we like it or not. And public scrutiny and further submis-­ we have to do something about it. sions prior to finalisation of syllabi." Mr. R. E. Moore interjected. At the moment a wide variety of committees, meeting under the authority of the Education Mr. P. WOOD: Government members do Department, are considering changes to not propose to do anything about it. They Queensland school syllabuses and nobody out­ ridicule ,the idea. They ask, "Where is the side the Education Department or the syllabus money coming from?" They propose to do committees knows very much of what is going nothing about it. If tit was up to them-and on until a new syllabus is presented. We it has been up to them-they would continue think there me many people in the commun­ to sit there and make pious sounds about how ity, outside of those involved on the syllabus terrible it is; but when it comes to doing committees, who have an important contri.bu­ something they do nothing at all. tion to make and who could say a lot about We have proposals to do something about what may or may not be taught in Queens­ it. I do not like the situation of 4-year-olds land schools, so we propose to let people being dumped at pre-school centres at 7 make submissions. The honourable member o'clock in the morning. The practice is not for Chatsworth, for example, could make widespread; do not get the idea that it is, a submission to a syllabus committee. I but I know a school in Toowoomba where doubt if some of those sitting behind him teachers voluntarily take it upon themselves would be capable. His point of view and to stay at school until 5 o'clock in the after­ that of others could then be argued and noon to look after children who remain at debated and people could then see the results school until that time because ,there is nobody because !interim reports could be published at home to look after them. It happens and and then subjected to public comment and we have to do something about it. I have debate. Of course, the final decision comes 1220 Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) back to the syllabus committee. I think many virtually impossible to keep them clean. people in the community would welcome the The children's ward at the Toowoomba hos­ opportunity to do this. pital is particularly bad. I do not A music syllabus was approved and, I thlnk, know how the management and staff at came into effect last year and one comment the hospital manage to keep the ward going. that came to me from a group of people It is an utter disgrace, and the Health interested in music was that they had no Department should be thoroughly ashamed idea that a new syllabus was proposed. They of it. had a look at it and had some worth-while Other parts of the hospital are not much comments to make about what might have better. been ,jn it. If they had been given the opportunity to participate, I think we would A new medical block is in the planning probably have had a better syllabus. Under stages, but because of red tape and the present system, that cannot happen. bureaucracy, and also deliberate stalling by the Queensland Government, its construction Having dealt with the Treasurer's Financial has been delayed. The Government should Statement for about 40 minutes, I turn clearly state whether or not it is prepared now to matters affecting my electorate. First to finance the construction of a new medical of all, I am concerned at the lack of staff block. The Toowoomba Hospital Board must at the Toowoomba Police Station. Although be driven to distraction by the delays that it is operating at its approved strength, the are occurring in its construction. If the number of men stationed there is totally Health Department persists in opposing the inadequate. The staff do all that can be establishment by the Australian Government expected of them in the circumstances; the of a hospital at Mt. Gravatt, I shall ask problem is that there are too few to carry the Australian Government to construct a out all the duties they are called upon new hospital in Toowoomba, where such to perform. Of course, similar situations a facility is urgently needed. arise in other parts of the State, and com­ plaints of this type are echoed in this I wish to deal briefly with housing in Chamber time and time again. Toowoomba. There is an acute shortage Approval is given in the Financial State­ of rental housing, and on top of this the ment for the allocation of funds to provide rents that are asked for private accommoda­ for an increase in the number of persons tion are well beyond the means of the employed in the Queensland Police Force; low-income earners. but, just as in the teaching service, any The Queensland Housing Commis5ion office increase will be offset by a high resignation in Toowoomba has a large number of rate. The saddest feature, of course, is that applications for housing, many with high usually those police officers who resign are priority. This year I have had more requests experienced officers-men with 10, 20 or -and more urgent requests-for rental even more years of service. These are the accommodation than in all my eight or men we can least afford to lose. nine years as a member of Parliament. The The situation in Toowoomba is very problem of rental accommodation is more serious. For example, after 10 o'clock at acute than ever before. Many people in night this city of 60,000 people is protected distress need rental accommodation urgently. by only one patrol car and two men on At the moment 10 houses are being built general duties. If after 10 p.m. the police at Harlaxton. As further Commission land station receives two urgent calls at about is available at Harristown, I urge the Com­ the same time, one of them simply has mission to proceed promptly with the con­ to wait. If three calls are received, an even struction of rental homes in that area to more serious situation arises. It is totally fill an urgent need. inadequate to have only one car and two Rail services between Brisbane and Too­ men on duty in Toowoomba at night. woomba, particularly passenger services, Mr. B. Wood: You're lucky to have two should be improved. The passenger rail men. Some places have only one man in service between these two towns has not one car. been improved for 15 years. There has been no significant improvement in the speed of Mr. P. WOOD: I am aware that a city trains while passenger accommodation has represented by the honourable member has deteriorated as the rail motors have aged. only one man in one car on duty. At the same time the surface of the road between Toowoomba and Brisbane has been In addition, attention to a great many upgraded continuously. Faster, quieter air­ routine matters is delayed because of the conditioned services, with better passenger shortage of staff. The staff are keen, hard accommodation, should be provided. I pro­ workers; there are simply not enough to go pose to ask the Transport Department to round. investigate the feasibility of electrifying the Next, I again call for the replacement rail service between Ipswich and Toowoomba. of the buildings at the Toowoomba hospital. This would obviously be a long-term project. The medical block and other old structures I am unable to say whether it is feasible, are health hazards, firstly because of their but it should be investigated. As the service poor design, and secondly because it is between Brisbane and Ipswich is to be Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1221 electrified, I intend to ask the Transport State coffers merely because of a change of Department to investigate the feasibility of Federal Government is not consistent with extending the electrified line to Toowoomba. the tmth. A variation of only $25,000,000 has been forthcoming under the Prime [Sitting suspended from 12.57 to 2.15 p.m.] Ministership of Mr. Whitlam. Mr. W. D. HEWI'IT {Chatsworth) {2.15 The present agreement was entered into p.m.): The Leader of the Opposition made at the June 1972 Premiers' Conference. I his way to this Parliament after the 1960 stress that date-June 1972, six months general election and he unburdened himself before the Whitlam Government came to of his first pearls of wisdom to an eager and office. At that conference three amendments expectant House when he delivered his to the then existing financial agreements were maiden speech in the late afternoon of 6 accepted. The first was that there would be September 1960. It was typical of maiden a permanent increase of $112,000,000 to the speeches-neither outstanding nor very bad financial assistance grants payable in 1972-73, -but he did us the favour of giving his which increase was to be built into the lifetime motto. We were rather glad that formula grants for the purpose of calcula­ he did not try to describe his family coat ting the grants for subsequent years and to of arms, because it would have been a little be distributed in proportion to the 1971-72 difficult to include in the pages of "Han­ formula grants escalated under the formula sard" the lion rampant or the lion couchant. as it would apply in 1972-73. The other two However, as I say, he told us his lifetime provided for a variation in the per-capita motto. As he has been elevated to these new payments to New South Wales and Victoria heights, I am sure he would like the Com­ and also made some provision for Western mittee to be reminded of his motto. It is- Australia. "The only time I dare not fail is the To establish that these grants were in last time I try." fact pursuant to a previous agreement, I An Opposition Member interjected. refer to comments that the present Prime Minister made at the June 1974 Premier's Mr. W. D. HEWITI: I will very happily Conference. He said- say it again. Isn't it strange, Mr. Wharton? "The present revenue assistance arrange­ One of his colleagues finds it so hard to ments between the Australian and State understand that he asks me to say it again. Governments were originally settled in I do so- June 1970 and were intended to apply "The only time I dare not fail is the over the five years 1970-71 to 1974-75. last time I try." My Government accepts the obligation to review the arrangements before the end In the ensuing 14 years the scribes of 1974-75 with a view to determining and the sages have been pondering what changes in them, if any, should apply these words, trying to probe the inscrutable, from 1975-76." trying to understand the profundity of it all, If there is to be a new formula or a new refusing to believe that it is an exercise in basis for disbursements, it is still forth­ banality. They thought that there must be coming and any disbursements that have so a deep hidden meaning in this life-long far flowed to the States have been conse­ motto of the Opposition Leader's. quent upon agreements entered into before However, it is strange that in his maiden the change of Government. But if there speech he should contemplate failure, because has been change apart from the $25,000,000 there is little doubt at all that in his first variation which I have conceded, it has been speech to the Budget as Leader of the Oppo­ in fact an erosion of those grants because sition he was in fact a failure. He presented on two occasions the Prime Minister referred no alternative policies. He presented no to situations under which they would be valid criticisms of the Government. More whittled away. importantly, he did not '!ell us where he First of all, in his opening speech at the would raise the mystical $50,000,000 that he June 1973 Premiers' Conference, he said- spoke about so glowingly when he assumed "Where the national government under­ the responsibility of his new office. J:nstead takes new or additional commitments which he placed heavy reliance upon the Common­ relieve the States or their authorities of wealth Government's participation in this the need to allocate funds for expenditures Budget and stressed that we should be at present being carried by them, th~re -eternally grateful for what he regarded as should be adjustments in the financral •overwhelming generosity from the Common­ arrangements between us. to take ~C.C?:mt wealth. of the shift of new financral respons1bil1ties. It is a pity for the honourable gentleman, These adjustments will normally take the but the facts of life are that the disburse­ form of appropriate reductions in the gen­ ments of funds from the Commonweaith are eral purpose funds allocated to the States. still pursuant to agreements that were entered We have proposed such reductions, for into by the previous non-Labor administra­ example, as part of the programme ~y tion, as the Prime Minister has conceded at which the Australian Government w1!1 subsequent Premier's meetings. So the assume financial responsibility for tertiary suggestion that extra funds flowed into the education." 1222 Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement)

At the 1974 Premiers' Conference he repeated started, and killing began in meatworks, the same sentiment when he said- 'there was a high peak of employment. "The Australian Government is firmly When the sugar and meat seasons finished. committed to this principle and will pur­ there was a low level of employment. It is sue its application wherever appropriate. no credit to Labor Governments that for I have informed Premiers of our intention many years they were unable to control to do so in respect of initiatives we are such fluctuations. Far from being vulnerable taking in the fields of Aboriginal affairs on i'ts record in the field of employment, the and assistance for deserted wives, and I Government can point to the extent to which expect that further cases could arise as it has been able to eliminate fluctuations and we develop our policies in other areas." bring about great employment stability as one of its strengths. In pursuance of that argument we find that the grants in fact were reduced in 1973-74 It would also have been wiser for the by $111,800,000 to offset the tertiary educa­ honourable gentleman to remain silent on tion expenditure and in the current financial the issue of daylight saving than to SU!!­ year it is anticipated that the grants will gest that the Government has stimulated be reduced by $229,700,000. So the Leader inflationary pressures by standing aside from of the Opposition, when he chose to extol daylight saving. A few years ago when this the virtues of the present Federal Govern­ State had one year of daylight saving, there ment, overlooked entirely the fact that the was no more vehement critic of daylight grants were tied to arrangements entered saving than the present Leader of the into by a previous Governmeni. Opposi,tion. He became extremely agitated about it. He said, "In the North, they hate If the States had reason to be grateful ide when he learns how this State body of mendable. In my opinion, the fmher exemp­ the Labor Party has taken a point of view tion from land tax is timely. lt recognises contrary to that of the United Nations whose that, as inflationary pressures continue, principles he so enthusiastically espouses. people must be able to enjoy varied eX:emp­ The Treasurer's Budget is under attack tions from such t!ax. and under cr~ticism from the Opposition. Similarly, the Education Vote is com­ Honourable members oppos1ite fulfil ~heir mendable, and a further increase in teach­ traditional role, and it is their right-indeed, ing staff of a1most 2,300 shows that the thei~r obligation-to criticise the Budget. Government is conuinuing to give high However, honourable members on this side prior~ty to educational expenditure. The of the Ohamber wait in vain to hear some statement uhat $230,000,000 will 'be spent on ..:onstructive comment on i•t, to be told where education in ~the current year indicates how it falls short, to be told of areas on which earnest the Government is in its efforts in it should be touching or areas in which it that field. is deficient. One should not leave unremarked the var­ The fact is that the production by a Treas­ iation in assistance to non-State schools. The urer of a Budget that shows a small nominal subsidy for primary school students increases deficit of $760,000 in these infLationary times from $62 to $81, and for secondary school is an outstanding effo11t. When contrasted students from $104 to $132. with the financial efforts in other States of I think I should comment on the phil­ this nation, it is indeed outstanding. Without osophy underlying that decision. The Gov­ exception, other Austmlian States face mas­ ernment firmly believes in a dual sy~stem of sive deficits and massive rises in internal education. It believes in the right of people taxes; yet this Snate has been able to so to educate their children privately, and it marshal .its funds that the Treasurer has believes that the State has an obligation to been able to produce what is almost a educi!Jle every chi1d, whether he goes to a balanced Budget, to absorb enormous costs, private school or to a public school. That and to maintain taxes at their existing ~levels. is in clear contradistinction to the assault It must be a gre,at relief to the people of by the Federal Labor Government upon Queensland to know that the funds of this people who choose private education, when it State are marshalled so well and that, in clear reduced the allowable tax deduction from contradistinction ~to the people in other States, $400 to $150. Its action was very strange. they do not have to sustain huge rises in Apparently, when the allowance was reduced, internal taxes. the 'Federal Government thought that, some­ The Leader of the Opposition referred to how or other, it was going to hit only those losses on the railways, which are expected parents whose children go to private schools. to be of the order of $43,000,000 in the There are two major errors in that, of current year. That is a tremendous loss, course. First, the sugestion is that anyone one that will take a lot of absorbing. Yet who sends a child to a private school is now the Treasurer's basic proposition---that to in the wealthy or the privileged class. I keep freights at their existing level is a solid could name many families in my own elect­ anti-inflationary measure--can easily be sus­ orate in which the mother of the family tained, because if freight rates had been opts to go out to work so that she can varied upwards the cost structure throughout continue to send her children to a private the State would have been further adversely school. That is their choice, 'and to suggest affected. that people like that are in the wealthy and Mr. Sherrington: You mean they will be privileged class is quite nonsensical. Secondly, increased if you win the next election? the suggestion that only people wLth children at private schools mcur expenses of more rthan Mr. W. D. HEWITT: There is no "if" $150 per child per annum is quite unreal. about it. If the honourable gen~leman sug­ I choose to send my three children to a gests that the Government might face defeat, State school and I am very satisfied with he is living in fantasyland. the education they receive; but I can assure In speaking about railway losses, of this Committee that even with children at course, the Leader of nhe OppoSiiti'on stopped State school level parents can easily incur short of suggesting that there should have expenditure in excess of $150 per annum. been some upward variation in costs, because Likewise fo11 commendable mention lin the such an upward variation would affect his Budget is the improvement in the Heal~h far northern city of Townsville. But if he Vote from $117,000,000 to $149,000,000, as lamented ~he losses and suggested that some­ is the upward variation in the strength of

Vote for youth and recreation. This year loan from ~the bank of 70 per cent of an increased amount of $1,400,000 has been quarterly increases in depositors balances set aside for this purpose. I firmly believe provided that any quarterly decreases are that Governments have a continuing obliga­ set off against subsequent increases before tion in this field and, on many occasions. computling the amount to be borrowed. The I have referred to the industry of leisure. effect of this is that in the 1972 year the We are now reaching a time in our lives State was able to enjoy borrowings to the when people will spend one-third of their extent of $69,000,000 at a most attractive rate lifetime in retirement and, in consequence, of interest, and there is no doubt that the we are going to encounter enormous social State is a major beneifidary under this agree­ problems. Governments have to anticipate ment. these problems, be ready for them and find solutions to them; therefore, greate1r amounts The ~agreement goes on to state that the of money must be spent in connection with losses incurred by the bank will be shared youth and recreation. equally between the State and the bank. I would say that I am at one with the The effect of building societies is that Opposition spokesman on education when he deposits in the Commonwealth Bank are spoke about the better utilisation of public falling away year by year and the losses schools and public utilities. We must move are therefore being aggravated. Whereas massively in this direction and the sooner from 1920 to 1971 there was a net the better. It is quite nonsensical to see profit of just a little under $1,500,000, schools and other facilities used over such two years later it had fallen to $891,000, a comparatively short time in each year­ in the last year of financial activity in this five days a week, 40 weeks a year. To State there was a loss, of which our share lock up such assets for the rest of the amounted to $134,000. Further, I note in time is folly of the first order. the Estimates for the new financial vear that our share of the loss is estimate-d to be I also comment favourably upon the con­ $1,300,000. tinued variatlion in the Vote for art and culture. I think we all now recognise the The loans that we enjoy at such a pre­ increasing necessity to make appropriations ferred rate of interest are worlcing in the for a cultuml centre. A few weeks ago a best interests of the State. Nevertheless the proposal was put forward ·that, as a short­ impact of the building societies upon savings gap measure, if nothing else, the Regent bank deposits is being felt. A year or so ago Theatre should be renovated and provided it was being felt to such an extent that in for live-artist theatre in Brisbane. I sup­ 1972-73 the Auditor-General stated in his ported that proposal previously and I do report that negotiations were proceeding so again. I think lit has much to commend it. with the bank on a variation of the terms of It would provide for this city a larger theatre the agreement. It could well be that if than we presently have and, more import­ further losses are sustained over future years, antly, it would preserve a fine old building. the compounded profits will be completely To put it under the wrecker's hammer would eaten away. I hope that in his reply the be tragedy of the first order. So I would Treasurer will tell the Committee something hope that, in the expenditure of this Vote, about the variation that is contemplated. the need •to preserve the Regent might be taken into account, and, more importantly, I remind the Committee that a few years that planning on the new cultural centre will ago the Auditor-General lamented the Act be accelerated. under which he works. The Audit Act of Of the capital aities of Australia, Brisbane Queensland was framed in 1874 and since is now probably the only missing link that then the only amendments to it have been does not have a substantial cultural centre to the salary of the Auditor-General himself. and there is a clear necessity to move It is hard to imagine that an Audit Act urgently in this direction. written 100 years ago could be totally In the last two weeks, building societies applicable to our present-day society. There have been very much in the news. We know is an urgent need to rewrite the Act. I that last week there was a threatened run know that it is under active consideration at on them and it was only the assurance that present, and I hope that in the new Parlia­ the Reserve Bank would stand behind them ment it will be treated with some urgency. that prevented what could have been a With computers and all the sophisticated catastmphic collapse. Building societies are financial arrangements that we now have, we having an effect upon many sectors of the certainly need an Audit Act in keeping with financial structure in our society. They are the times. having a particular effect upon savings bank deposits. This, in turn, is affecting the agree­ Mr. Newton: We will rectify that when ment that the State has entered into with the we get in. savings bank with regard to loans from deposits. The agreement, which most of us Mr. W. D. HEWITI: I am pleased to remember because it was renegotiated in know that the Opposition will agree to the 1966, when I had been in this Parliament introduction of the appropriate Bill. I am for only a few months, provides that in grateful to the honourable member for each quarter year the State is entitled to a Belmont for that intimation. Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1225

Any criticism that I have to offer on the port of Brisbane. We have been told that Budget is aimed not at the content of the it is not in a state of complete finality and Financial Statement but rather at the over­ that it is being referred to a number of emphasis that we tend to lay on a Budget. public servants who have been asked to A Budget in itself can tend to be restrictive comment further on it. As members of in that it looks merely one year forward and Parliament we cannot get access to that is applied strictly to money terms. It is not report. The re-development of the port of such a broad document as to be able to set Brisbane will have enormous consequences out policy and initiatives, nor can it give a for the city. In the fullness of time, as picture of the Government's intentions in members of Parliament, we will be asked five or 10 years' time. Whilst I do not wish to vote millions of dollars for ,that project. to take anything away from the importance Although there is no finality, although ,the of the Budget, I suggest that in many ways whole thing is in a state of flux, I believe we could be furnished with other documents that we should be allowed to peruse the that would give us greater scope for discus­ documents and form our own judgment on sion on matters expressed other than in them. money terms. During the Matters of Public Interest debate I touch, for example, on education. I yesterday, I expressed my point of view on know that the Education Department plans the Labor Party's policy of worker control many years ahead, and I believe that Parli

In the next paragraph of their submission, In 1974, the Health Department, in new these doctors point to a major communica­ designs and even in renovations, seems to tion problem when they write- insist on this out-of-date concept of large "The situation should be corrected by open wards which provide little or no the staff organizations-medical, nursing, privacy. One wonders whether the Health paramedical and administrative-having Department bigwigs have heard of abusive ready and direct access to the board. They or disturbed patients, and their effect in should be kept fully informed and their large old-fashioned open wards. advice be frequently sought and considered. The new wing under construction at the Receipt of submissions should be acknowl­ Royal Brisbane Hospital also deserves some edged always and there should be adequate comment in that the portion of the site 'feed back'." it covers is close to 100 per cent of the area. Outside of Central Business "A" areas Things must have reached a very poor state in Brisbane, this would be illegal, from when doctors are forced to draw attention to a town-planning point of view, for any other such hospital defects that would not have building. Even premises in other than "A" arisen if the staff had been given the right areas generally occupy only about 75 per cent to participate in the hospital management. of the site. Residential buildings, that is, If honourable members still doubt the buildings in which people live, rarely occupy seriousness of the situation, I refer to the more than 30 per cent of the site-definitely document "Aims and Ideals of the Royal nowhere near 100 per cent. Looking at Brisbane Hospital", in which its doctors the whole of the site at the Royal Brisbane make this vital and telling point- Hospital-site coverage would be far in excess of that allowable for any private business, "Jn the final analysis, the normal over­ or any non-governmental body. all standard pursued must be that which every staff member would be prepared No-one, other than the Health Depart­ to accept personally or have experienced ment, would contemplate developing such by his or her own family. It is apparent a comprehensive complex without adequate that the present standard falls well short traffic and parking facilities. When the failure of this." to plan for adequate parking became apparent, all staff were threatened with a Let it be remembered that no-one voted provision that would require them to pay against this document at a Medical Staff $2.50 a week for parking on their job Association meeting called to discuss it. site. For some time the board conducted In other words, the standard of care in continuing witch-hunts, hounding members the Royal Brisbane Hospital falls well short of the staff for parking in the wrong places. of the standard our doctors would expect The time and effort spent in annoying the for themselves or their families. When doctors staff could have been saved by the acceptance e~ployed at our hospitals produce and dis­ of normal planning concepts and the pro­ tnbute such a statement, who will be pre­ vision of parking when the hospital was pared to argue that everything is still O.K.? extended and new blocks built.

T~e buildings of many Queensland public Whilst on the question of site coverage, hospitals are, by and large, antiquated dreary one must be fearful of the development of dirty, o~ten smelly, and thoroughly m{pleasant other hospitals within the region. Ipswich for patients and staff. There is little doubt General Hospital has reached a position where that, in .a modern hospital setting, pleasant its site could be considered to be saturated surroundmgs are a great morale booster from a reasonable point of view, and yet for patients, and can well contribute to no attempt is being made to decentralise or a pat.ient's well-being through engendering develop another site. One can therefore a feelmg of confidence. expect a general deterioration of the environ­ ment about that hospital as well. No-one could claim that much of the interior of the Royal Brisbane Hospital is I am told that both members of hospital pleasant. The buildings themselves at the boards and architeots have expressed their Royal Bris~ane Hospital are barely adequate fruSJtration at having to deal with some for ~ hosp1tal half the size, and they must Health Depa11tment administration officers certamly be unpleasant to work in. A who seem incapable of keeping up some sort m?dern hospital should not produce a traum­ of informed liaison. I am also advised that a!Jc state of mind in patients who are the department has been known to reject after all, residents there. ' attempts to institute modern plarming tech­ niques. The Health Department should This is of particular concern to young develop a proper rreviewing section that more patients. I know of a young lad who was or less infOTms the architects rand boards of hospitalised in a general ward in Brisbane. the very Iatest philosophies in hospitals. I The hospital considered him an adult, and have been told of board members who just he was put in a room in a city hospital accept whM is given to 'them, as they say they for several weeks with men of all ages. have not the professional expertise needed It had a lasting effect upon him. Such a or the baok-up from the Hea1th Department situation can be particularly bad for children to chaHenge anything put before them by and aged persons. their architects. Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1229

That state of ,affairs ex·isted in univer~ities that is necessary with reinforced concrete. before the appointment Otf .the Univer&ities One wonders what the department had in Oommiss1ion and university architects. The mind, from the point of view of time and change in standards was very noticeable after expense, when construction started. the Martin ·report of the mid-fifties estrublished these reviewing techniques for the Whilst on the subject of buildings, I point universities. out that there is ·also a very considerable inadequacy in the di~>tTibution of beds. Because of the controversy over the Within Queensland the amoumt of money planning of the proposed new Mt. Gravatt spent per patient or per bed per day is hospital, I deliberately made '3Jil early refer­ very s1ignificantly less than the average fo.r ence in my speech today to hospital buildings. Australia. Distribution of beds is much I am grateful for the opportunity afforded more heavily loaded to country areas than to me by the Opposition yesterday to par­ to the city. One can only assume that this ticipate, with the shadow Minister for HeaLth, is because of political considerations. ]n expre•ssing concern about so-called plan­ ning concepts. in the hospital service and In our city hosp]tals there has been, in the way in which decisions had been made rthe past, a lack of knowledge of current bed relative to proposals for Mt. Gravatt. av.aila!bility w~llh the result that planned To the Government's ete•rnal shame, after admissions 'are often cancelled as late as years of newspaper and TV announcements when the patient arrives at the hospital to of a new major hospital in Brisbane, 'and be admitted, when it is discovered there are other announcements of multi-miHion dollar no beds available. hospital plans, we discovered last year what There seems to be no over,all long-term a sham, what a confidence trick, this was, plan which wouild require the Health Depart­ for the State Health Minister was unable to ment to consult other private hospitals in an produce proper plans in time to receive effort to produce plans to ensure that suffic­ major Federal! Labor Government assis,t3Jllce [ent private, public and intermediate beds are in the 1973 Budget. He received only some made available i:n the oity so that doctors money to help 'Produce proper plans. can place a patient in hospital urgently, with­ Now the Minister has implied that on out .their secretaries having to ring a number party-political grounds he may refuse assist­ of hospitals or without the hospital having ance for our sick and infirm. I am sure many to place beds in aisles and passageways. Noth­ of our citizens who have waited hours in ing so adversely affects the morale of both uncomfortable outpatient queues, after travel­ opatient and staff as an overcrowded ward, ling miles, will be concerned that a petulant, with beds •and sfretche11s cluttering the sulky, group of State politicians, playing passageways. party politics, will knock back finance that The surgical waiting-list situation is well must speed up the availability of improved known within the hospital and there is a health care. sizeable backlog on the waiting list of people However, I w~sh to come back to the for so-called non-emergency treatment such Royal Brisbane HoS'{lital's block 7. I am as piles and hernia. I would point out that toLd that the origin.al plan for this b1ock was these so-called non-urgent operations are drawn in 1962. Under the highly efficient urgent as far as the people who have the "Bjelke-Petersen Tooth" Health Department, complaint are concerned, and delay adds to it is still under construction in 1974 their suffering. -that is, the rigidity of the Hea1th Depart­ ment's decis•ion-making proce·~s haJS caused The orthopaedic surgical list for bone long delays and given us an inefficient and problems is even longer-in some cases very ·expensive building when space was many mDnths. Even patients in severe pain needed urgently. with serious arthritis must wait months to have an operation to relieve their pain. The structure of block 7, 3JS it stands now at North Brisbane, is a massive steel frame, As I have said, not all patients are able and one wonders at the economy. Steel­ .to be admitted and a person from a non­ frames, other than in very high-rise build­ urgent waiting list may have his operation ings, are considered a thing of the past­ deferred, which means that he plans his unless, of course, speed of erection is Otf the time off work and reports to the hospital essence. Solid steel frame is terribly eXIpens­ only to be told that he cannot even be i:ve in compadS'on with reinforced concrete. admitted to hospital, let alone have his operation. Not only is he inconvenienced If speed was of the essence at North Bris­ socially and financially but such an experi­ bane, one shou}d have seen other trades in ence must be extremely demoralising. the construction following rap:idly upon e•rection of the steel. Howevelf, at North The outpatient department in the Royal Brisbane, the steel frame has been almost Brisbane Hospital is appalling. Waiting time completely erected and there is very little to see the doctor can be up to three hours. evidence of other trades fo1lowing up. The On top of that there have been reports of whole idea of steel frame is to enable trades several hours' wait to obtain drugs from to follow immediately behind .the steel, avoid­ the pharmacist. I understand that that, at ing the waiting time in strength development least, has been cleaned up. 40 1230 Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement)

Repe·atedly, patients are asked to attend clerk by telephone, and the absence of only to find that their case char.ts are not complete medical records of patients available. X-rays and reports from X-ray during Clinic sessions." specialists are often not avai~able. The It may be argued that the situation will be patient is then given a new appomtment and remedied when block 7 is completed, but the asked to attend privacy 'of consultation between the patient ]earn by his mi&takes, and the system IS and the doctor because there are very thin very inefficient in time. partitions, which do not go to the roof. Doctors are interested in their patients. They want to see them again, they like to Not enough seats are available; patients see whether their treatment was successful; have to queue up for many yards outside, they like to see whether their diagnosis w~s sometimes for a long period, to have their correct and .they like to follow up their names addresses and particulars. taken, and patients. This is totally impossible ~n tJ:.e :then they are subjected to a very consider­ casualty sections and virtually impossible m able wait in casualty, particularly if their the outpatient situation because of the very cases are non-urgent. Patients experience short time that is available for them to see long delays waiting to be seen by the do.ctor. the huge roll-up of patients. There is _not In addition there can be a further wmt to time for social chit-chat in the outpatient obtain an X-ray and to make an appointment departments, nor is there any time for to see a specialist if that becomes necessary. allay:ing any patient's worries. W. D. Scott in one of their first progress It does not appear unreasonable to ask repo!'ts made .these comments on the why a Government that has sp~nt &o m_uch casualty and outpatient departments- time arguing over the doctor-patient relatiOn­ "The majority of patients are subject ship whilst attac~ing ;the Federal Labor to long waiting periods, because very few Government has not itself instituted a roster clinics allocate staggered appointment or alphabetical patient-control sy~tem to ·times. allow for a closer doctor-patient tie in these "A large number of patients being dis­ departments. charged from wards cannot be given A major source of considerable problems satisfactory appointments when they are is the X-ray department, which is . plagued discharged from wards outside the hours with inadequate equipment housed m poor­ 8.45 a.m. to 5 p.m. Monday to Friday. quali'ly buildings. "Patients from Casualty Depa!'tme:nt While the quality of work performed is must go to Outpatients Departments to excellent, it is common for reports to >take make their new Clinic appointments. up to three weeks to be typed an? returned During the present stages of building to the wards. This is due to madequate construction the route was anything but numbers of clerical staff, which the HeaJ,th obvious, and the sick and partially dis­ Department has known about for over five abled patients were £orced to wander years. The present chairman of the N?rth along this route unnecessarily. Brisbane and South Brisbane. Hospitals "In addition to the problems being Boards was a member of a committee set up experienced by the patients, the hospital in 1968 to examine this problem. X:et when staff have also been frustrated by the glut I raised this matter, and my quenes were arrival of patients, the difficulties in con­ reported in the Press, he said he was not tacting the extremely busy appointments aware of it. Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1231

I am told ,that the pos~tion will get worse situation in Royal Brisbane does not allow as few, if any, doctors are applying for the viewpoint that you can go on as you positions in the X-ray department and more are." resignations can be expected. Directors and I would like the Committee l!o note that their staff have complained for years about report from W. D. Scott about the "explosive the virtual impossibility of getting X-rays morale s~tuation". back ,to wards or, more importantly, to the outpatient department so that patients can The chairman of the North Brisbane Hos­ be interviewed with X-ray reports available pitals Board was reported in a morning for the doctor at the same time as ,the patient paper as s,tating that there was no problem. attends. His statement indicates just how out of touch he is with his staff, and how he has The director resigned in January of this failed to read ,the consultants' report, which year, and yesterday when our shadow has been in the board's possession for eight Minister for Health (Mr. F. P. Moore) asked months. a question about this matter, the Minister Low morale can be said to exist when for Health admitted that applications for the staff of the institution cannot get on the posrtion had not yet been called. with ,the job they are paid to do. They see This represents a six-month delay, which their loyal

I am advised that lin another study W. D. anythling to their friends outside they will Scott, after investigating the duties of ward be permanently blocked from promotion by nursing staff in the Royal Women's Hos­ the Health Department. pital, reported to the board that ward nurs­ The final and most obvious documentation ing staff spent only 30 per cent of their of what is wrong becomes apparent when time in direct patient-care, that is, less than we find that the report commissioned through one-third of their time. W. D. Scott in response to public pressure, The report bears out the requests made by and at a cost of $250,000, has been delayed many young nurses that non-nursing duties and suppressed. I can only asume that it should be performed by non-nursing, or less has been suppressed because the situation is skilled staff, thus releasing the trained staff too appalling to reveal to the public. for the work they are desirous of carrying It is a well-known faot that in the hospital out, namely, direct patient-care. today W. D. Scott & Co. officers are becom­ There is a very high resignation rate, ing 'increasingly disenchanted because of the particularly amongst trainees, but also way they have been treated. I can only assume amongst other trained staff. W. D. Scott that the suppression of their report must made reference to this problem when they be a bitter blow to them. spoke of "a high depa!'ture rate." I think I have shown that there are Recently a number of student nurses went deficiencies in the hospital. Nobody can to the honourable member for Mourilyan deny that they are real. Anyone who does with a list of complaints. The only response so is flying in the face of reality. We are from the hosplital was a witch-hunt to find ventilating these matters in a desi,re to help, out which students had visited the Opposition not to destroy. We want to see our hospital health spokesman. Nothing was done about services prov,iding the best possible treatment the complaints but a lot of work was done for the sick people' of this city. It is in trying to find and remove the student unfortunate that speaking out on this pres­ nurses. sing issue quickly brings a partisan defence on political lines. That is indeed a shame. Morale is extremely low among the doctors. There has been a consequent severe loss There is no doubt whatever that there of many of the best brains from Queensland has been a sore need for those associated either to southern States or to overseas and, wlith the provision of a f,ree hospital service in the case of people coming back to in Brisbane to speak out. It will be a pity Queensland after specialist training, the situa­ if the Government tries to bluff rather than tlion in the hospital has been so appalling face the facts. that many have been forced to go into Let us look at the individual groups within private practice. the hospital. Are the staff at fault? The I warn the Minister not to make the point answer is simply "No". They do a marvel­ that they have gone into private practice only lous, job at lower pay and with worse condi­ for greater financial reward. This is not tions of employment than anywhere else so; it is because of frustration and adminis­ within Australia. The Government may elect trative mismanagement. In a number of to pluck a few figures from somewhere, but cases, where the speciaList can function fully it cannot deny that people work in the only in the hospital situation, this has been to Queensland Radium Institute till 11 o'clock the detriment of the doctor and the sick at night, day after day and week after week. patients. Young radiographers are thinking of going on strike for the first time in their lives We have the well-documented situation of because the machines keep breaking down. the medical superintendent of the Women's They cannot let their cancer patients go Hospital, Dr. Cooper, who has virtually home untreated and therefore they work been summarily dismissed from the hospital later and later, getting nothing in return after working there for several years and except worse conditions next time. beling highly efficient in his job. It is a As outlined by the Medical Staff Associa­ shame and a blot on our hospital service that tion in the report on communication, the we should be losing a man of his calibre. staff are rarely allowed to participate in the The administrative staff, outside of the decision-making process. Most of the senior Health Department, are, to put it mildly, staff ~in the administrative section come from highly competent by any hospital standards the Health Department so that any capable and are desperately keen to get on with the administrative officer within the hospital can­ job. They believe that support services are not rise to the top positions. One very vital to enable the hospital to provide proper senior medical man told me he believed patient treatment. They say that the best that the department promotes people only care is not always possible when a vital part on theiD ability to block expenditure. of the team that treats the patients is When staff join the Hea1th Department, extremely low in morale. As a result they they generally begin as secretaries of country are disorganised, with little or no real voice hospitals. Few come to the Health Depart­ in the hospital. They are not allowed to ment with extensive experience in running make decisions or to take responsibility. major hospitals. Very few members of the Further, they live in fear that if they mention depar,tment in hospital administmtion, other Supply (10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1233

than the current manager of .the hospitals I submit ·that this indication of a five-month board of the metropolitan hospitals, have delay from the management consultants that been trained for their pos~tion. I remind we appointed to remodel the hospital adminis­ honourable members that one of the best tration and improve the conditions in it men we have, who was the manager of the clearly proves my point that there are inor­ Princess Alexandra Hospital, resigned in dinate delays in implementing decisions in frustration when a nominee from the Health our free hospital system. That must be Department with less training and less demoralising to a degree and not conducive administmtive ability was appointed over his to getting the best-quality people onto a head. hospital board as a public service. The medical staff are more than adequate It is in the Department of Hea1th that the by any standards but are unable to practise real problems of the Queensland health medicine properly in the conditions which scheme lie. To those who work in hospitals, exist. Experienced doctors aDe concerned for the Health Department seems to be motivated the future of their profession when they in order of priority by- realise that Royal Brisbane is our major (1) Political consideration. teaching hospital. That is where we train the doctors of the future. The rtype of medical (2) Determination to grasp and hold on education a doctor receives has a major to personal power. impact on the health services the community This attitude is seen as largely negative. will receive for years to come. TheDe is little imaginative or positive think­ Our present system provides that the ing. Action occurs mainly in response to a medical s-tudent receives 99 per cent of his crisis situation which is now almost con­ tinuous. teaching and learning experience either on the university campus or in our major teach­ (3) An unreasonable drive •to save money ing hospitals. When the student is taught without making a case for urgent spend­ ing elsewhere. under conditions that apply in the Royal Bris­ bane Hospital, we can expect that he will It would appear that rarely in the decision­ not have received the best possible training. making process is medical need or opinion Every deterioration in the standard of train­ taken into account. The doctors in the depart­ ing will be reflected in our medical care in ment are advisory only and not part of the hospitals and in private practice throughout decision-making process. Doctors claim that -the community for the doctor's lifetime. within the Health Department the patient rarely gets a mention. "Nobody thinks of the Because of the staff situation, rthe nursing patient", is :the comment made to me by one staff, too, may receive lower standards of doctor. The Minister appears concerned only training than their counterpar·ts in other Aus­ with political and to a lesser degree personal tralian States. Despite the training problem aspects and has shown little concern for the they are doing a marvellous job to make u; patient. for the department's deficiencies. The Labor-in-Poli:tics Convention held in Major hospitals are now extremely com­ Cairns last week produced dramatic evidence plex. It can be said that they probably repre­ of the changes that will occur-all of them sent one of the mosrt complex ins•titutions run for the better-when .the OPposition takes in our society. The boards have done their over rthe Treasury benches. The honourable best but have become bogged down because member for Mourilyan (Peter Moore), as they are not allowed to spend money with­ Labor's health spokesman, drew the atten­ out Department of Health approval. On top tion of the convention to the system's faults of 'that they have to report almost everything and rthe causes of these fauits, and then pro­ to the Health Department for approval. posed a policy that was accepted by delegates from all over Queensland with very little Matters requested by senior medical staff opposition-in fact, I could say no real and approved by the board can take six opposition a.t all. Peter Moore, in less •than months and sometimes much longer for an hour, made it clear to us all that he approval or rejection. It is a Heal:th Depart­ knew his subject and was not prepared to ment gambit to ask for the matter to be play politics with .the patients' health-care. resu~mitted in six months. Doctors report I know that at a later stage he will be farcical delays of one to two years for deci­ explaining our new heal:th policies, and I sions relating to the expenditure of $100 to recommend that Government members study $200. If honourable members think I and implement them. exaggerate in relation to the long delays in decision making, W. D. Scott & Co. What could we do about it? I would reported- like to pass a few personal views on what I believe we could do about the current "There was considerable delay in obtain­ problems. Let us first look at the Depart­ ing the decision from both Boards on our ment of Health. It is absolutely critical plan for Developing and Organisation that the services of an experienced adminis­ Structures presented in November, 1973. trator, preferably a medical administrator, be !fowever, following _acceptance in principle obtained to start to reorganise the m March, work on mstallation proceeded." department. 1234 Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement)

Trained professionals must be placed in It will be necessary to reorganise the roles the decision-making process. As I have of many of the existing senior staff of the indicated previously, the professionals, par­ Health Department. ticularly the doctors and nurses, have been cut out of the decision-making process. It is critical that there be greatly improved Obviously in matters of health their voices communication between the various levels and particularly those of trained professional of decision-making within the health ser­ administrators must be heard, so as to vice. This means between hospital and obtain balance in the ultimate decisions that Health Department, between hospital and are made. board and between board and Health Department. This communication improve­ The department's power of veto must be ment will need to continue to the senior limited. Where vetos are used, it should be executive--heads of department level­ required to issue explanations. Decision­ where encouragement should be given to makers should be held responsible for the healthy discussion and exchange of ideas. results of their decisions and should be iden­ tifiable. It is absolutely critical that a decision There needs to be some distinction between be made to allow staff of the hospital to the type of hospital board that is needed partake in decision-making relating to the for a small hospital on the one hand and, work that affects them. This would mean, on the other, a large city hospital or a in effect, that there would be a streamlining large teaching hospital, which are highly of the administrative system and the actual complex institutions. These latter hospitals outcome would be to stop the departmental need extra special expertise on their boards. over-control of almost everything in the Priorities should be defined and publicly hospital. stated. There must be more regular meet­ Morale would shoot up as responsibility ings of the board. The present Royal Bris­ was delegated to those who ought to be bane hospital board meets as a whole once allowed to take that responsibility. a month and has an enormous agenda that requires the making of decisions sometimes There needs to be an allowance made for at the rate of one every three minutes, the medical staff to have a say and not a regardless of importance. dominating say in the running of the hos­ pital and particularly for their advice to be The end result is that decisions cannot heard and listened to on decisions regard­ be discussed fully. Decisions can be made ing the treatment of the sick. in the absence of all the information or even a proper balance from many points The board meetings need to be less secre­ of view. tive so that staff at least can be represented and know what is going on. Digressing, I would draw attention to the fact that the Queensland Government has If the board is running properly, very pursued the most repressive, restrictive form few matters would need to be heard in of centralism through its Health Depart­ confidence, whereas, at the moment, every­ ment whilst parading around the nation thing is held in the confidential situation preaching against centralism. If anybody because of the fear that the Press will get hold of it. doubts me, he should read the words of Dr. Owen Powell, the head of the planning We should change the administrative set­ department. up to provide better promotional prospects for the hospital department staff, that is, If the hospital was given a complete bud­ the full-time career officers within the hos­ get, this could lead t0 short and long-term pital should be able to rise through the plans for the hospital, which would be in senior levels up to manager, or whatever the hospital's and its patients' interests. is the top administrative position in the It needs to be made very plain to the hosiptal, provided, firstly, they have the appro­ Health Department that everything that is pr!ate qualifications and, secondly of course, relevant to the patient's welfare must come sk1ll. first. We must provide a 20th century style At the moment the Health Department nursing administration, not authoritarian rule maintains the top five positions and there which is repressive and which discourages are no necessary qualifications on training as young girls from working in the hospital. prerequisites to appointment. An example of The department cannot escape the fact that the department's attitude can be seen when poor recruitment and high drop-out rates advertising for the North Brisbane Hospitals indicate poor morale and/ or poor manage­ Board manager is confined to the Queens­ ment. land Public Service and other medical super­ There needs to be an upgrading of nurs­ intendents' jobs are called internationally. ing education in training, so that the educa­ Why the difference? tional status and ultimately true professional It is necessary to train the existing staff, status of a nurse is raised to realistic levels. where possible, to perform their job as We must provide adequate ward facilities administrators competently. In many cases to allow a nurse to work happily. I am this may only mean some in-service train­ told it is not pay and conditions which are ing within an area which needs to be more responsible for nurses leaving, although they specific. are among the major reasons given. It Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1235 is just they are unable to do their job the priorities could be set out within a and feel they are not adequately involved in matter of months of such a scheme the direct nursing care of the patient. commencing. It could well be considered that the board Queensland's free health scheme has should confine itself to policy matters instead deteriorated to quite an appalling organisa­ of matters of detail, as is happening now, tion, and this is recognised by health adminis­ and that it should meet weekly for, say, an trations throughout the rest of the country, hour or so and transact all the necessary and in some places overseas. Labor spokes­ business. There needs to be enforced dele­ men still hold it up as an example of a gation of responsibility to the lowest level Labor ideal. The scheme is first class; it at which decisions can be made and respon­ has only been mismanagement by its political sibility taken. Every little detail should not masters that has brought it to its knees. be a matter for the board or the Depart­ ment of Health. It is absolutely critical that It is easy to see that Commonwealth hospitals have power over the whole of Government money will be no use until the their budget with minimal centralised control. administrative set-up is improved, and it is therefore critical that the Department of We must provide high-quality equipment Health be overhauled in a most drastic way to treat the sick. No-one would say that the before any more people die needlessly. present equipment or floor space, at the major hospitals at least, is either adequate or I am confident that in the honourable modern. There is not enough floor space. member for Mourilyan the Labor Opposition We must move to try to correot the imbalance has a man capable of carrying out the neces­ of an excess of country beds in some areas ·sary steps needed to produce a free hospital and a shortage of city beds without reducing scheme that will live up to the high ideals free hospital care for our country patients. of the Labor men and women who designed What I have said are my personal com­ it many years ago. ments and thoughts on reorganisation of administration, with shor,t and long-term Dr. CRAWFORD (Wavell) (3.38 p.m.): plans prepared for the hospitals' future. It From ,the honourable member who has just is my belief that the steps suggested would resumed his seat we have heard a complete produce a happier staff, who would feel they denigration of the policy espoused by Labor were able to get on with the business of organisations all over the world, namely, a treating the ,sick. These moves should make hospital system in which there is centralised, it possible to retain good staff. This would bureaucratic control and under which all, add to the status and treatment of the sick, including the medical profession and para­ and harness the immense energy of the medical worker,s, do what they are told to present staff. do by the bureaucracy. In summary, it must be quite clear that We have heard from the honourable the health administration of ,the present member for Lytton a very long dissentation Government is one of the worst in the history about the difficulties that central control of this country. It has been characterised produces in a hospital system. I have been by continued low hospital morale for a great against the principle of central control all many years with disastrous consequences. I my life, and it was interesting to hear him list a few- say that most of the difficulties encountered (a) Failure to recruit nurses in adequate by the Health Department in this State are numbers, and, in addition, a high wastage associated with central control. I am sure amongst those that begin training. As a that his own Labor hierarchy, in Canberra, result wards are closed-waiting lists are in the United Kingdom and elsewhere, would getting longer-and almost every day disagree quite violently with what he said. patients are being hounded out of hospital to make way for emergency admissions. Amongst other things, the honourable member referred to waiting lists. It is true (b) A refusal by section heads ,to stay, that Queensland has growing waiting lists coupled with resignations of general staff for elective surgery within the hospital and the failure to r,ecruit ,top personnel. system. I might point out that in the Two major posts have been vacant many United Kingdom the number of names on months. the waiting lists exceeds the number of beds Within the Royal Brisbane Hospital alone throughout the entire country. The United many millions of dollars will be necessary Kingdom has fewer than 500,000 beds, and to start to undo the mess that has been those on the waiting list exceed that number. created. Planning would produce the correct That indicates the way a health service of the priorities of expenditure, and it would be at type that the Labor Party wishes to introduce that point that the infusion of large sums of throughout Australia has been functioning money would be necessary. The infusion of for over a quarter of a century. money at the present time would mean quite wasteful spending of that money, whereas, I intend today to adopt a somewhat philo­ if the conditions outlined were 1to be met, sophic approach to an analysis of the situa­ the millions that Labor's national health tion in the United Kingdom after 25 years, scheme would bring to Queensland could be and to see whether a few lessons for our own properly allocated and spent very rapidly, as country can be drawn from that experience. 1236 Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement)

As far as the expenditure of money is In Queensland before 1936 medical advisory concerned, the functioning of a complete committees were asked for their opinion health service is an extraordinarily expensive before decisions relative to hospitals were process. When the system was introduced made. These were deleted by the prede­ in the United Kingdom-virtually the system cessors of honourable members opposite in that the Department of Social Services wishes 1936, and it is only recently, I believe, that to introduce for 'the whole of Australia­ the Labor organisation has realised that it it was stated that it would then cost about cannot run a hospital system without such £S70,000,000. During the first year of the opinions and advice. However, in the South, functioning of that system, under central Mr. Hayden is taking identical action and bureaucratic control in Westminster for the attempting to spread this pernicious doctrine whole of the United Kingdom, the cost throughout the whole of the country. escalated threefold. Now, 25 years later, It is of the utmost importance that we that £S70,000,000 has escalated to over have a very clear view, Mr. Hewitt, of $A6,000 million. exactly where responsibility for running health services lies, and it is quite clear In spite of the expenditure of these very that the only way to run an efficient health large sums of money, the situation still service is to have first-class administration pertains throughout the United Kingdom in every sphere of hospital activity and in that inefficiency is the result of much of every hospital and for that first-class adminis­ that bureaucratic control, and Mr. Hayden tration to receive first-class advice from the has been busy talking about spending large doctors, the nurses and others who work in sums of money and taxing us for a similar the hospitals. privilege throughout Australia. If the present Minister for Social Security Again, this can be used as an illustration is allowed to bring in h1is form of adminis­ of the wasteful use of money by a Labor tration throughout the country, we will have Government in the sphere of hospital services. a predictable situation identioal wi.th that The amount of money spent during the 16 in the United Kingdom. I repeat that there or 17 months since December 1972 in is mer1t in oarrying out a philosophical exam­ increasing purely Public Service bodies in ~nation of the pDinciples on which compre­ the Department of Social Services-Parkin­ hensive health services are conceived. In son's law-is to the tune of $15,000,000 a general, there is far too much political waffling 1and insufficient concern shown for year. If, instead of all the talk about deni­ ,tJhe patient as the consumer. Political parties grating existing hospital services, the amount show too little consideration in general for that has been spent in Canberra purely on his welfare. I believe that the present admin­ providing additional personnel for the health •istration in Canberra does not concern ~tself services to escalate that type of central con­ with patient welfare but only with political trol . had ?een spent in providing hospital phitosophy to implement the social objective services, It could have attended to the of controlling the medicaJl professi·on. need for more beds in Adelaide, South Aus­ Many histories of the evolution of hea:lth tralia, where there is a shortage of public serV1ices are based on the naive assumption beds, or it could have been used to fix of continuous progress. Sometimes progress very many of the problems that we have is assumed to be steady and ,sometimes, after in Queensland. a dramatic di&covery in medical science such as rhe use of nuclear isotopes, the introduc­ It is all very well, Mr. Hewitt, for our tion of a new method of treating disease or Labor colleagues to speak about inefficiency the introduction of administmtive and leg­ here. and there; but the system that has islative reform, it is assumed ~o be rapid. applied where Labor has been in office throughout the world is a predictable system The estaJblishment of the National Health and it is based on central control of every~ Service in England and Wales and the parallel body. The 1936 Queensland Act which I have services in Scotland and Northern Ireland d_issected in this Chamber befor~ today, elec­ tended to be regarded as a glorious •achieve• tively set up a system by which doctors nurses ment which wou1d endure forever. But the and paramedical workers were forbictden to truth is more complex, the achievement less ~pply them~elves in any way to decision-mak­ certain and ·the future less optimistic even mg, and this has not been changed either by now after the service !has been functioning for the subsequent ~abor administration or by 26 years. If achieveme,nt simply means the the subsequent Liberal-Country Party admin­ p'ieces of pa!per approved by Pal'liament, it istration. The system goes back to the Labor must logically appear to be a final issue. But, Party ideals in 1936, and no-one can deny in themselves, pieces of paper compri~ng that. Most of the problems that are present Parliamentary legis·lation do not create any­ throughout the world where Labor Party thing in a !health service. If i•t is to be a philosophy of socialist control of health living reaHty serving certain prinoiples of has been implemented stem from the fact care and the better distributJion of resources that, electively and deliberately and with as the years pass, it is more contentious. some sort of malice aforethought doctors Health services are social inst~tutions and, and paramedical workers are not allowed to ·as such, they can change relatively to their be consulted in the making of decisions. own past, to other inSit!itutions and, most Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1237 important of all, to the hea1th needs of the influence the other way? Indeed, can one community. This must include the possi:brility be disentangled from the other? Can equality of retmgression as well as of progression. in medicine,. like equality before the law, Sociology is only 'beginruing to trace the impli­ be practised on a kind of island, remote from ca~tions for medicine, nursing and public policy the cruel inequali:ties of the rest of social of a thorongh social analysis Olf the provision life? of hea~th services in those three distinct The development of health services takes senses. 'fhiis is partly because sociologists place, of course, not only within a national are only s~owly becoming aware of the close setting but also within a ,third-world setting. re~ationship that exists between the form of Through social means, the knowledge of ll'he health serv"oted to research and instead of their exploitative and destructive teaching in that subject remains miserably f,eatures. small. To take one small examp1e, in 1972 Some uncomfo11table facts about inequal­ there were the Whole-time equivalent of only ities between nations are, it is true, revealed. seven spedalists in social medicine among Thus the statistical year books of the United 8,500 :consultants attached to rhospil!als in Nations and the World Health Organisation England. 1'h[s type of Sipedali:s!l: is not have called our attention to the fact that, encouraged by bureaucracy because there whereas there are between 120 and 200 might be no shorHe!'m benefits whatever doctors per 100,000 of population in Britain, from his work. the United States and much of Europe, there are only 32 per 100,000 in Taiwan, 22 in Until very recently, sociological work India, 19 in Pakistan, four in Indonesia and notably in the United States, has taken the Tanzania, two in Malawi and Nepal, and restricted forms of study of professional and one in Ethiopia. I am sure all honourable patients' roles, of particular concepts o[ members will recall the very grave disabilities i1lness such as mental illness, aTI>d of partic­ suffered in recent times by the people of ular organisations such as general hospitals Ethiopia as the result of a shortage of food for 'the 'acutely ill and the mentally ill. Now and total lack of medical attention. As a the need to study the enhre system of member of the Commonwealth of Na,tions health care and its internal structure, as well we should be appalled at that situation. as its external relation:ship to other systems such as the economy and ~he political system The figures that I have quoted are most ~and particu1ady its relationship to national disturbing in the light of their humanitarian and international systems of social strat.ifica­ significance. Too often such information is tion-1s better recognised as providing the presented without any attempt 1to explain Dight framework for speda:list study. ·that some of the privileges enjoyed by the rich countries are gained at the expense of This means, first of all, study of the the poor countries. For example, a large structure of public and privcate health ser­ proportion of Britain's hospital medical staff vices thl'Qllgh the various tiers of centml have been drawn from the British Common­ government, regional and area health autJhor­ wealth. In the 12 months ended October ities and local government, hospitals, health 1969, of 169 new general practitioners centres, and general practice; industrial, vol­ moving into undootored areas a total of 164 untwry and pl'iva,te agencies and services; the came from overseas and, in the process, structure and distribution of professions and drained the medical services of the countries their tmirring and recruirtJment; the social and from which they came. other ohamcteristics of the diffeTent occu­ Queensland is making a constant search paltional groups concerned with the he.alth overseas,. pai1ticularly in the United Kingdom, of the individual and of :local commrun1ties; for doctors for its hospitals. In a world sense the all'Ocation and control of resources; and

Foreign doctors account for 20 per cent and innovation, or to professional judgments of the annual addition rto the American pro­ of objective needs and the status of different fession, and it has been calculated that the diseases and treatments, but also in response United States gain more in dollar value of to the pressure of vested interests and the medical aid from 'the rest of the world than level and type of public anxiety and demand. ·they provide in aid to foreign countries, publicly and privately. This, too, is an indict­ In relation to prospective sudden death ment of the world system of providing health or physiological malfunctioning, pain, dis­ care. comfort, debility and different forms of The :third world is also disadvantaged in incapacity may come to play a more promin­ some respects by attempts to introduce ent part in social and medical conceptions. inappropriate Western concepts of medicine Types of human behaviour may be shifted and treatment and by the profit-seeking into the territory labelled "illness", and opemtion of ,the drug companies. The inter­ controversies about the demarcation of the national profit and loss account in relations boundaries may be settled. The boundary is between health service systems requires being continually redrawn and disputed. searching scrutiny, not only because systems This can be illustrated by the history of SO· in the third world remain deprived but also called fringe medicine, the history of the because inequa!i

Jwst as the scope of the concept may With regard to the National Health change, elements within it may be accorded Service in the U.K., many preconceived ideas different we,ight or priority. Views are have been proved over the years to be reached about the seriousness of certain erroneous. Its creation has deeper roots states of he,alth. The construction and than is often supposed. The vast majority priorities of health services follow suit. The of hospital patients, for example, were relative scale and importance of different treated free long before 1948-as in Aus­ services tend to become distorted-for traliticians and social strate inadequacies not only of income, envir­ scientists have been slow to utilise this data, onment and education but also of health dismayed perhaps by remarks such as this services. statement by the Regis~rar-General in the Uniwd Kingdom- A good start has been made in parallel work in hospitals throughout the United "It is impossible to disentangle real Kingdom. A number of research studies have differential changes in mortality in this demonstrated sharp differences among hos­ context from apparent differences due .to pitals in the outcome of treatment for specific changes in classification." conditions, some types of hospital, for Yet the data are of immense significance. example, having much higher rates of case Further use has been made of standardised fatality. This type of work begins to call mortality rates by social class under these attention to inequalities in the distribution headings- of resources, and quality of care, in the (i) Professional; hospital services. (ii) Managerial; It would appear that the greater (iii) Skilled manual and non-manual; the bureaucratic control, the greater the (iv) Partly skilled; and problems. With political influences intruding themselves, the whole system becomes much (v) Unskilled. more difficult to manage. As I have stated It would seem from evidence examined under in this Chamber before, I have been in a these headings that undue attention has been situation, when working in the United King­ given in recent years to the so-called diseases dom, in which I have been told that if I of affluence, but if the mortality experience removed a hospital waiting list by working of social class I had applied to social class additional hours, the hospital administration (v), only ju:>t over half of them would have would no longer have a weapon with which died and 40,000 lives would have beem it could bargain with the controlling bureau­ spared. cracy in London for a new casualty depart­ This disturbing trend has to be judged in ment. the context of a wide variety of other data. Like mortality ratios, both sickness-absence Although maternal mortality among married ratios and measures of "limiting long-stand­ women has continued to fall, the differences ing illness" demonstrate the disadvantage of between the social classes have widened. the partly skilled and unskilled occupational Trends in infant mortality are harder to classes. Another, indirect, measure of state establish. The differential between the classes of health is physique. Careful measures of narrowed between 1930 and 1950 in Eng­ differences in height and weight in popula­ land, but this was during a period when tion can be valuable indicators of trends in the differential was greater than it was in health. In the mid-1960's, data from the 1242 Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement)

National Chila Development Study for seven­ underst'orod. I repeat that poHtical interfer­ year-aids in England showed that there had ence in these matters does nothing to help been "little if any change in social class in any shape or fo.rm. differences" since 1953. The actual figures We must proceed from the general to the derived from the two studies show a slight particular. Britain devoted a smaller pro­ widening of the gap, though this could be portion of its total resources to health ser­ attributable to sampling the slight differences vrces than several o.ther ad¥anced industrial in method. An average difference in height societies and this pmportion is growing less of 3.3 cm between children from social as time goes by. Earlier studies by the class I or II and those from social class ( v) World Health Organisation and by the Can­ was found, compared with 2.8 cm between adian Royal Commission o.n Health Services "upper middle class" and "lower working had sihown that Britain's percentage of gross class" children in 1953. natiional product devoted to health had Research of that type is relevant in remained fairly srtatic in the first years after Australia when we are assessing the efficiency the esrtablishment of the National Health or otherwise of our Aboriginal services, and Serv,ice in 1948, whHe that of ovher oountPies a very great medical advance has been made had been growing. Political pPioPimes for in attempting to ascertain the true problems spending money automatically cut down on relating to Aboriginal health. It is a fact health services if any crisis arises in a that almost 50 per cent of Aboriginal country. children, by the time they reach their second The latest comparative study shows that, year of life, are below the normal height although Bdta!in's expenditure grew in the and weight ratios for white children of com­ 1960's, it grew relatively slowly. It reads- parable ages. "Three countries, France, Canada and In this context it is interesting also to Sweden have the most rapid adjusted rate recall rthe recent remarks of Senator olf growth in health expenditures, ranging Cavanagh, the Minisrter responsible for Abor­ from 8.7 to 9.0 per cent. In contrast, iginal health in the Commonwealth Parlia­ GeTIDany and the U.K. Sihow the slowest ment, when he suddenly l!eali'sed that the growth raJte, 4.7 and 5.1 per cent, respect­ provision of extra money for Aboriginal ively." health in Austmlia had not accomplished The mte of growth was approximately the anything. He spoke as though he had made same in the United Kingdom under the a magnificen~ new discovery. The p11ovision 'Labor administration of 1964 to 1970 as of large sums of money will accomplish noth­ under

late 1960's and early 1970's in different long­ This functional interdependence has been stay hospitals, widespread publicity and con­ recognised in the plans for the 1974 reorgan­ cern and the introduction of new Government isation of the National Health Service. The policies aimed at promoting rapid improve, trouble is that reorganisation takes a hier­ ment. archical form, stressing the virtues of managerial control or efficiency, the superior Examination of the whole episode-of the status and power of the upper reaches of failure of the health system throughout the the medical profession and the exclusiveness United Kingdom to respond under the central of knowledge. It conflicts not only with bureaucratic control from Westminster to democratic concepts of health services but the new policies, or perhaps of the policies with comprehensive concepts of health needs, themselves to effect change-would be more equitable and inexpensive deployment of likely than examination of any other sequence resources and the long-term advances in of events in recent years to yield insights standards of health education. What is into the general deficiencies of health-service wanted is not a long and remote chain of planning. It may be noted here that it command, but access to, and involvement takes up to 20 years to obtain really adequate in, strong community-health, welfare and statistics and data to assess accurately such housing services. The problem is far from a failure of patient-care. The problems of being just that of establishing the consumer's professionalism, management control and right to comment on the operation of the privileged access to knowledge remain with structure. It is whether a hierarchical the organisers of the N.H.S. in London. managerial model derived from industry is likely, in the end, to promote or retard The twin themes of inequality in health freedom of access to medical and allied conditions or needs and the provision of care at time of need for all members of the services have been mentioned. The evidence population. invites searching reappraisal of the whole development of the United Kingdom health Currently in the United Kingdom an system. There are problems of identifying argument is taking p1ace over the provisions performance, understanding the intercon­ of future hea1th services and relations among nections within the health system of different the Labor Minister for Health (Mrs. Barbara branches of service and defining its bound­ Castle), the consultants who work in the aries, and explaining why policies designed hospitals, and the intermediate and private to lead to more equitable distribution of patients who 'are accommodated in those services have been frustrated. A deeper hospitals. analysis of the persistence, and even the The socialist concept is predictable in these widening of equality, may be required. matters. Mrs. Castle has announced publicly that she will remove all private and inter­ Of course, however widely the health sys­ mediate patients from the hospital service tem is conceived and drawn, its potentiality because, she states, it is unfair for those who is restricted. The system is not the only can afford to pay to be able to jump the determinant of mortality or morbidity. States queue. of health depend on peace or war, nutrition, living standards, education and the working When replying to the remarks of the hon­ environment. Whereas staffing ratios for ourable member for Lytton with regard to health visitors, consultant obstetricians, waiting lists in Queensland, I mentioned that paediatricians and general practitioners are the waiting list throughout the United King­ all slightly higher in Scotland than in dom is larger than the number of beds. England and Wales, the infant-mortality rate In effect, the waiting list for non-urgent in Scotland remains relatively high. Scot­ surgery is over 10 years. Many patients land has a legacy of poor housing especially are now advised against putting their names in the major cities, and a Scottish health­ on the waiting list as they would only clutter service study found, for example, that the up the system. infant-mortality rate was directly proportional In London some unions have announced to the degree of overcrowding. that they will not service beds and wards The interdependence of services within the of intermediate and private patients. That system also deserves to be better understood. has led to a complete confrontation among Measures of adequacy and efficiency must the consultants, who combine a consultancy be developed not just for particular services, practice with a hospiual practice, the unions, because that implies they are isolated from and Mrs. Castle. From this direct con­ one another and isolated in their effects. frontation brought about by progressive They must be designed to represent that socialism, the whole National Health Service interdependence. General practice comple­ might collapse. Doctors are not allowed to ments, and is interconnected with, hospital practise as they wish and patients are not and specialist medicine on the one hand, and given a choice. It is as simple as that. with the public health and welfare, or per­ The whole service could collapse. sonal social services, on the other. The Moreover, large sums of money are needed relative scale, balance and working functions to expand the system and to make it morce on each part of the system have to be efficient, yet the Budget was recently identified for local communities as well as decreased by the Government, with no regard for the nation as a whole. whatsoever for the quality of patient-care. Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1245

Mr. LEESE (Pine Rivers) (4.38 p.m.): Last Premier soon put a stop to that. He and year the Treasurer described his Budget as his Ministers have gone to such great lengths an "achievement" Budget. The year before to misinterpret and distort the Australian it was an "ongoing" Budget. Those were the Government's intentions in its programme for Treasurer's words, not mine. This year's the subdivision of urban land that the only Budget, I believe, highlights the Government's conclusion one can come to is that they conservatism. It is a stand-still Budget; a are not interested in stabilising the price of do-nothing, don't-rock-the-boat Budget. It has land. no vision and no enthusiasm whatsoever for On the other hand the Australian Labor the future. Government (in aiming to stabilise the price Before proceeding further, I congratulate of land, prevent speculation in rural land our spokesman on education (Mr. Peter and preserve existing use of land) has initi­ Wood) for the way in which he exposed the ated land commissions and land price stabilisa­ Treasurer's deception about the funding of tion programmes. A total of $30,000,000 education. One of the greatest burdens facing was allocated in the past financial year for Queensland today is, without doubt, the pres­ land commissions, which the Australian Gov­ ent State Government, the members of which ernment intends to establish in all States are so intent on politically sniping at Can­ with, it is hoped, the co-operation of respec­ berra that they have completely neglected tive State Governments. their responsibilties to Queensland. There are three main objectives underlying Under their mismanagement State hospitals the Australian Labor Government's land com­ have been allowed to run down to such an mission structures. The Labor Government extent that delays of six to nine months wants urban areas throughout Australia to for surgery are common and dissatisfaction be comprehensively planned and developed. is rdfe amongst medical staff. But it wants to make land available at Through their refusal to use State powers fair prices as well as retain for the benefit to control prices, they have given an open of the whole community some of the go to blatant prorfiteering at the expense of increases in values which result from the the Queensland people. Whilst the Govern­ processing of urban development. Land com­ ment sits idly by on the sidelines playing missions therefore are the first step in the politics, Queensland families are bdng robbed Labor Government's long-term objective of each week on their grocery bill. A full providing more attractive and better-planned inquiry into food prices is obviously needed. communities. I do not believe that many of the outlandish Interrelated with the land commissions' food prices can be substantiated. No longer programmes is the growth centres programmes are increases limited to one or two cents; to which the Australian Government com­ they are usually eight or nine cents in one mitted $24,000,000 in the 1973-74 Budget. hit. For instance, how can anyone substant­ It is seeking to stabilise land prices in these iate an Se increase on a small bottle of sauce areas and acquire land under a public over a period of two weeks, as happened authority for urban subdivision into building recently? Dozens and dozens of items have blocks. I understand that regions in Queens­ shown similar increases. Queensland house­ land currently under study by the Cities wives are entitled to be given a full explana­ Commission for future growth centre develop­ tion of any pnice increase, not just a vague ment include Townsville and the Fitzroy reference to inflation. Some companies are region, which takes in Gladstone and Rock­ definitely reaping a bonanza. hampton. As I said previously, I am of the opinion This is just part of the story of the that there is need for an immediate inquiry Australian Government's aims to provide into food prices. It should be initiated, yet cheaper land for Australians, yet the State the Government has failed to make any Government is able to find something sinister move in this direction. Its continued refusal in its intentions. With the fragmented to exercise its right to implement State development that is taking place in Queens­ control of prices is giving an open go to laud-and do not forget that it is the any unscrupulous person or company out rural dwellers who have suffered in the to make a fast buck. In most places the main from the bad rezoning forced through people who lift the prices to the greatest by certain developers-one would think that degree are supermarkets and not corner the Premier and his Government would be shops, where usually a better deal can be more than willing to participate in a scheme obtained. for orderly development, which will go a Queenslanders have had almost two years long way towards bringing an end to the of backbiting and non-co-operation thrust land rorts. upon them by this Government. It has been I shall direct myself briefly to the proposed carried to the extent of refusing to co-operate subdivision of the Samford Valley. Firstly, to provide cheaper land for Queensland I am pleased to say that at the general families, although earlier this year the Treas­ meeting of the Pine Rivers Shire Council urer did put himself somewhat out on a on Tuesday, the council refused to accept limb in saying that the Federal and Queens­ the consortium's plan. So we are back land Governments had agreed in principle to square 1 and will possibly get some worth­ to a cheaper land scheme for housing. The while planning and development carried out. 41 1246 Supply (10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement)

Nevertheless, I feel it is important to place I have nothing but praise for .the Pine on record the type of plan that was sub­ Rivers Shire Oouncil for the way in which mitted to the Pine Rivers Shire Council. it has handled this matJter to date. At a recent meeting, the council approved the The township of Samford, which is vir­ planning brief for the scheme. At that time, tually the centre of the Samford Valley, is I understand, arrangements were made for situated 21 kilometres north-west of the city a number of project meetings between centre. As I have already said, it is in the council officers and representatives of the area of the Pine Rivers Shire Council. It study planners. Of course, those meetings !is a very attractive rural area ringed by wm not now be taking place, as this week wooded slopes and ranges which abound with the council rejected the plan. Some 58 native fauna and flora. From time to time objections to various aspects of the scheme over the years, this area has attracted .the have been lodged with .the council, and it is interest of various development companies. my understanding that full attention is to Negotiations carried out between various be given to those objections. interested developers and the Pine Rivers Shire Council in the past were unsuccessful, The Government has al1otted responsibili­ mainly because, I understand, of the difficulty 'ties to local governments without ensuring of providing adequate public u.tiHties, and the ·that they have the necessary finance and fact that individual land settlement propos,als powers to carry them out. were too small to afford the headwork costs The Pine Rivers Shire Council has been involved. only too well aware of the intense pressures Some 12 to 18 months ago, a group of being brought to bear to develop this region, developers who had secured conSiiderable and it is doing its utmost to ensure that, if holdings in the area formed themselves into development is to take place, the existing a consortium, and, as a result of negotiations natural and cultural environment is adequately with the Pine Rivers Shire Council, agree­ protected, as it must be. ment was reached to prepare an over-all Obviously, if it goes ahead, the proposed strategic plan of the region with a view to development in the Samford area will have allowing land settlement to proceed. The a major impact on .the Samford Valley and p,ine Rivers Shire Council has strongly contiguous areas. I am convinced that the expressed its conce·rn about the type and obvious and far-reaching effects of the pro­ amount of settlement that may occur in posal must attract the attention of the this region, and has, to its credit, realised Moreton Region growth strategy investiga­ that the existing natural and cultural environ­ tions .that were recently approved by State ment must be adequately protected. The Cabinet. I hold the view ,that a full environ­ study was carried out by Pmject Planners mental impact study muSit be carried out. Pty. Ltd., who were appointed by the con­ Although I realise that local authorities do sortium and, I understand, approved by the have the necessary authority and powers to council. call for environmental studies when con­ sidering dev•elopment, the project under dis­ The study, which was recently made cussion is no isolated small development. public, has quite understandably caused quite What is proposed is virtually a new city, and a considerable amount of consternation I do not believe that it was ever intended that among residents in the area, who at no time a local authority should bear the full respon­ were consulted in any way while the study sibility for such a project. A development was taking place. For that matter, it appears with such far-reaching effects must surely that the council, too, was not consulted, receive the full attention and co-operation of although it was laid down in the guide·lines Government at all levels. that both parties should be involved at all times in the study. Mr. Burns: Is this the one that "Shady" Lane is interested in? I believe that the Government, too, should be concerned, for here is a proposal for the Mr. LEESE: That is correct. This is the development of another city. According to one w£th which the honourable member for the plan, 82,000 people could be housed in Merthyr is tied up. this regional area within the next 15 years. Mr. Burns: That is "Shady" Lane. That is a popuJ,ation 50 per cent greater than .the present population of Rockhampton, Mr. LEESE: That is fair enough, but I yet the Government has been strangely silent understand he is trying to live that name on the project. It appears to be quite content down at the moment. to leave this proposition to a group of developers who, to say the least, have a It should not be forgotten that we are vested interest, and, once the land is talking about a proposal 'to house 82,000 developed and sold, the developers will have people, many of them in areas of intensive no further respons;biBty to the di;,trict. development ranging from 25 people a hec­ The responsibility will fall upon the Pine tare to cluster housing of 40 people a hectare. .RJivers Shire Counc~l and, it is to be hoped, It would have been criminal if this proposal the State Government which, at this point had been allowed to proceed simply because of time, does not appear to be accepting any developers have acquired land in the region responsibility. and are eager to open it up. There must not Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1247

be development for its own sake. Where new On the question of air pollution, the towns are to be planned, surely there is an repor.t had this to say- obligation on the Government to ensure that all facilities can be provided prior to popula­ "Assessments of the atmospheric pollu­ 'tion build-up. tion potential at Samford is difficult due to the lack of detailed knowledge of the entire The problems of growth areas are well micro-climate, particularly as regards known. Families have to live with the folly atmospheric stability. It would appear from of fragmentary development. Shires are experiences elsewhere in valley situations unable, through lack of finance, to provide and from evident pooling of cool air and necessary sewerage works. Consequently, low rates of motion at Samford, that stable people are being forced to live in an environ­ conditions, especially ground inversions, ment in which their back yard virtually will persist longer and be deeper than ?ec?mes an open sewer and public transpo!'t those in Brisbane. On winter mornings the Is VIrtually non-existent. In fact, the majority air pollution potential at Samford may be of growth areas around Brisbane are nothing considerably higher than that of Brisbane. more or less than a suburban wilderness. Is Thus it is imperative :that pollutant emis­ it any wonder, then, that considerable con­ sions should be kept to a minimum with cern was being expressed in regard to the restrictions on open burning and a limita­ so-called strategic town plan proposal for .tion on population generating chemical the Samford Valley region? pollutants from motor vehicles. Control should be executed over major sources of On Tuesday, 10 September, I directed a pollution outside the district principally the question to the Premier relative to the South Strathpine Industrial Estate." Pine River Dam. In reply, he said- It can readily be seen that very little "Preliminary assessment studies only of is known of the effects that concentrated the proposed South Pine River Dam have urbanisation in this area will have on been carried out at this stage and 'Catch­ atmospheric pollution. This being the case, ment Area', defining the inundated area a far more detailed study into this aspect is and surrounding environs, has not yet been of paramount importance. declared under the Irrigation Act 1922- 1973 and the Water Act 1926-1973. No Another aspect requiring the detailed atten­ date for a declaration has been deter­ tion of the Co-ordinator-General's Depart­ mined." ment is the prospect of flooding brought about by the increased run-off t?rough ~he Although only preliminary studies have proliferation of sealed roads, dnves, bmld­ been carried out, the consortium's planners­ ings and more efficient and faster drainage. ~ot independent planners, but planners work­ The' proposed South Pine River Dam, if Ing on behalf of the consortium-have defined built, would no doubt alleviate this problem the ponding area of the proposed dam. So to a degree for people living on the extreme the Pine Riv·ers Shire Council was faced with northern section. Without the dam, I have the proposition of concentrated urbanisation no doubt that at times of heavy rain severe throughout the catchment area of the dam flooding could well be experienced from the which, of course, raised serious questions of South Pine River, even in the vicinity of the possibility of _future resumptions and, Bald Hills. Even with the provision of the above all, of pollution and the magnitude of dam, intensive development could well result P?llut_ed dr!finage, etc. I should imagine that, in severe flooding in and around the Sam­ with mtensive development within the catch­ ford Valley. This question must be seriously ment area, the shire could well expect prob­ looked at and necessary provision made prior lems with the sewerage system. to any meaningful development taking place. Our experience with the Australia Day floods It must be remembered that at this moment indicates that this is a matter that can never the Pine Rivers Shire Council is facing tre­ be taken lightly. mendous difficulties while it is waiting for Another question that must be seriously the study of the catchment area of the North looked at, and on which firm undertakings Pine Dam to be finalised. The council is not receiving any information· there is no con­ must be given, is transportation from the tact with the Co-ordinato~-General's Depart­ proposed development. It is reasonable to ment relative to the study. assume that the vast majority of the pro­ posed future residents would commute to There is also a need fo'f a far more search­ the city and the industrial suburbs of Bris­ ing study into . the air pollution potential. bane. This would entail the construction of One must questiOn what effect a population many new access roads and would, of course, of 82,000 people is going to have from the radically affect the lives of people resid­ point of view of air pollution in the Samford ing of the proposed development. At this Valley region. point of time it would seem that the Main I would also question how the figure of Roads Department has not given any indi­ 82,000 people was arrived at. The report cation as to its ability to cope with the would seem .to indicate that availability of added volume of traffic. Of course, the land was a major criterion in arriving at answer may well be solved by the provision that figure. of an electrified rail service. 1248 Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement)

To sum up, there is no doubt that with people or, alternatively, . believed that. it the demand for additional home sites in had sufficient funds to go 1t alone. Certamly the northern sector of Brisbane, some form the latter has not proved to be the case. of development is required in the Samford With the rapid development that is taking Valley region. The Pine Rivers Shire Council, place in the Pine Rivers district, it is to fully realising the disastrous effect that frag­ be hoped that, now that electrification is mented development can have on the lives to be commenced the State Government and needs of the people, is doing its utmost will have sufficient' foresight to give serious to ensure that only detailed, planned deve­ consideration to linking the Ferny Hills line lopment takes place in this area. Therefore, with the North Coast line. This, coupled with the Government has the responsibility to co-ordinated rail-road transport, would go a ensure through detailed study that, prior to long way towards ensuring that r<:pi~ rail any development taking place, it is in a transport is available to the vast ma]onty of position to provide essential services and residents in the district. amenities, such as electricity, schools, health facilities, police and fire protection. Then, Further a connection should be made of course, there is the question of garbage between the Petrie line and the Redcliffe and rubbish disposal, which is coming more Peninsula. Every Cabinet Minister should be and more to the fore. Inadequate planning forced to travel over the Hornibrook High­ to accommodate the requirements of such way twice a day during peak hours. If necessary services or the inability of any they did that an? . were forced to fa~e the of the authorities to cope with the proposed frustration of dnvmg over the Hormbrook demands would undoubtedly have disastrous Highway, I am sure that not only woul? the effects on the lives and well-being of the viaduct be duplicated but also a rmlway residents in the area. line would be constructed, a hovercraft ser­ vice commenced, and goodness knows what! I have on numerous occasions raised the Perhaps the Government would even con­ question of lack of adequate public trans­ struct a new Parliament House on the Red­ port facilities throughout the Pine Rivers cliffe Peninsula! This is not a political matter, area. Although belated, the Government's but the fact is that the people on the recent announcement that the first electrified Redcliffe Peninsula have suffered long enough train service in Queensland would commence under the mismanagement of this Govern­ on the Darra-Ferny Hills line in 1977, is ment. nevertheless welcome news for it will, with­ out doubt, be of tremendous benefit to Mr. Bums: It's poor representation. commuters. It is to be regretted that it Mr. LEESE: It certainly is; the people has taken the Queensland Government 17 on the Peninsula have been represented by years to realise its criminal mistake in shelv­ Government members for years. It's about ing the Labor Party's plan for electrification time something was done for the thousands in 1957. This Government would have the of people on the Peninsula, many of whom people of Queensland believe that we are work in Brisbane, thereby aiding the city's moving into a new, exciting era in public economy. transport and that the State is the pathfinder. This suggestion is both ludicrous and laugh­ A rail link such as I have proposed able. The facts clearly show that Queens­ would greatly benefit my electora.te, b:ecause land's public transport system is at least 20 it would lead to a vast reductwn m the years behind those of other States. number of motor vehicles that travel daily through it between the Redcliffe Peninsula I have no doubt that what has prompted and Brisbane. the State Government to make belated Residents who live in growth centres such attempts to update the public transport as Pine Rivers are suffering under the neglect system is the Australian Labor Government's of this Government. Instead of working initiative in providing two-thirds of the cost over the years to provide a rapid transport of such undertakings in capital cities. It system, the Government has place_d too much would seem, however, that Queensland is emphasis and reliance on the pnvate motor not taking full advantage of this generous vehicle. The electrification of the Brisbane offer. suburban railway system will not, of course, solve all public transport problems. The The Minister for Transport is on record Government's ineptitude, lack of foresight as suggesting that his plans for electrification -call it what you will-is highlighted by had been delayed for more than 17 months the fact that even now there is virtually no by the unnecessary deliberations of the Aus­ cross-country public transport system. tralian Labor Government. This is nothing more than a lot of political nonsense. The People who wish to tvavel fmm Stnathpine to Ferny Hills by public transport-a mat­ Government would do well to remember ter of 5 miles or 8 km-have to go via the that in 1972, when it pledged electrification city. This is not only frustrating and time­ and co-ordinated rail-road transport to the consuming but also very costly. A person people of Queensland, a Labor Government without a car cannot affOTd t!he fare. Under was not in office in Canberra. The only the Govemment's policy he must either walk conclusion to be drawn is that the State or stay at home. Admittedly, two nail links Government was once again hoodwinking the serve tlhe Pine Rivers area-one £rom Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1249

Pel'lie to :tlhe city and the other £ro:m F elffly Hills eTected to serve the industrial estate. How­ to the city. People who live between the eve'!", time and time aga!in the Minister has rai'l links are virtually without tranS>port. advised me that there are not sufficient In short, the Government has failed miser­ funds. ably to provide adequate transport faci:livies. In this oontext it is well to remember Residents of Albany Creek have one bus ~hat two-thirds of the cost of updat~ng rai:l transport are avrulaJble from the Federal bus service a day~almost nothing. If they Government. The State Government has do not have a car, ~hey must sit tight. The Minister for Development and Industrial not by any means taken full advantage of Affairs lives at Albany Cree'k, in my elect­ this aPrangement. Consequently, people wish­ ooate, but, quite candidly, he has not assisted ing to use the milways are forced ·to walk me 'in any representations on belra}f of the a great distance to and from a raiiliway residents. I shall have something more to station in :the discomfort of our subtrop~oal say about this matter when rwe discuss the climate. This is most distressing for the Estimates of the Minis,ter for Mines and aged and for mol'hers with young children. If Main Roads. 'People wait for the Redcliffe bus, I think they have to pay 20c to tmvel f.rom Strcath­ The Railway Department has laundhed a pine to the Strathpine Railway Station. Of significant campaign appealing to people to course, !'here is no co~rdinatio111 between the travel by mii. If commuters respond to the bus servke and the railway timetable. I appeal, rail transport will virtually come to have even asked the Minister to put in a a standstill. Peak-hour trains a:re so grossly whistle stop as just a temporary siding, but ove11crowded 'that they pose a se!'ious acddent no. We will probably have to wait for hazard. It is almost ~mposs1ble to get a ele

provide better control of the distribution of adequately recognised, a great deal of dis­ fruit and vegetables. Greater farmer partici­ crepancy arises in the disbursement of funds pation within the C.O.D. and adequate staff ~nd some areas receive less than they are to cope with the needs of farmers must Justly entitled to. If it is based entirely on result in savings both to the consumer and academic standards, which is the tendency to the industry. under centralist control, many people miss out in the long run. I believe that the Queens­ Mr. ROW (Hinchinbrook) (5.29 p.m.): I land Government will ,always stand out as a enter this debate with considerable heart shining light in this respect. and I should like to congratulate the Treas­ urer and his staff on the production of Substantial hardships and unemployment what I think he himself terms a "resourceful" in the private sector of industry will no doubt Budget. I fuink I can say that it is the be inevitable. As 1a matter of fact, they are most pleasing Budget that I have witnessed daily becoming more evident with reports in my experience in this Parliament. It is a of the necessity for small factories, even in quite remarkable effort in the existing disas­ this State, to curtail their operations or trous circumstances that are' affecting the even cease them altogether. With the provi­ finances of the naJtion generally. It is very &ion of industrial estates and assistance to pleasing to be able to claim that Queensland industrial developers by the Department of once again leads the way and is the most Industrial Development, I believe that this stable and reliable State in the Common­ critical situation that exists with small indus­ wealth. This is very clearly evidenced when trial producers in this State will at least one considers the budgetary statement pre­ be minimised. I congratulate the Treasurer sented by the Treasurer. It is one of the on his continued recognition of the need few anti-inflationary Budgets we have seen for State support of industrial development. introduced and, as I say, this is remarkable For a foreseeable period, at any ra,te, we in in the light of the policies of the Common­ Queensland can see some prospects of reas­ wealth Government. onable stability, and I think the effort of the Government is highly commendable. It is quite remarkable that the Queensland Grants to the private-nursing sector have !3overnment has been able to safeguard both always been close to my hear,t. I am delighted mdustry 1and employment ,jn this State to a ,to see that grants are to be made to the degree superior to that of any other State private-nursing sector, which plays a very in the Commonwealth at this point of time. ImportmJJt wle in the provision of social To my mind, one of the most outstanding services. In the Budget it has received well­ features of the Government's programme for deserved recognition. The Federal Govern­ preservation of employment and industry is ment, on the other hand, is endeavouring to the special provisions that have been made disintegrate the private-care sector of the available to local government. Probably community by both its intrusion into this the most welcome features o.f the entire Bud­ field, and threatened duplication-which I get would be the subsidy scheme worth do not imagine will eventuate-and its $22,000,000, the $5,000,000 grants and the typical tactic of attempting to demoralise $45,000,000 debenture scheme, which would the people in the hope that they wm become go a long way towards overcoming the some­ weak and defenceless, thereby f,alling easy what parlous situation in which local govern­ victims to the socialist plan of total control ment finds itself. fwm Canberra. Many shire councils and municipal author­ Diligent and capable management by all ities have no doubt been able to stave off sections of the community, in co-operation to. ~ome e~tent their financial difficulties by wi,th the State Government, is essential to rmsmg thet11 precept and rating but these our survival in a nation that has well nigh sources of revenue, of course are limited by the capacity of the ratepaye'rs to meet the been brought to 1ts knees by the policies of charges, and I am sure that not only the the Federal Labor Government. administrators of local government but also One of the most pleasing features of the the ratepaying public will welcome the news Budget is the Treasurer's ability to contain that further relief has been given to local most State taxes to their present level. I government by the State. refer particularly to freight rates, which are a critical element in the abiHty of a great Mr. Frawley: They did not get much from number of rural and manufacturing indus­ the Federal Government. tries to survive and also an important factor in the financial state of the consumers and . Mr. ROW: They got very little, comparat­ the commuters. Ively, from the Federal Government. I have always contended that it is very important I wish to read from a letter WTitten to for State Governments to recognise local me by one of my constituents, and I am government, which is government at the grass sure that the Treasurer as well as other roots th:ough which the people have an members will be pleased by these remarks. opportumty of expres&ing their desires. In a On 27 September he wrote as follows- State as vast as Queensland, with its com­ "! wish to thank you for your represen­ parative!~ small P?pulation, community of tations to the Treasurer and the M,inister mterest Is very diverse and if it is not for Transport on behalf of the North Supply [10 OcTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1253

Queensland banana growers. It came as Mr. Frawley: Labor passed a motion at a pleasant surprise to many growers to its State conference in Cairns to do away learn that no increase in rail freights had with the State Governments and place every­ been made, and this fact is very much thing under Commonwealth control. appreciated. Mr. ROW: That is so. Labor forgets that "I would be pleased if you would pass it is the people whom we all represent who on this message to both Sir Gordon Chalk will be affected by the end result, whatever and the Honourable Keith Hooper. it happens to be. "The very survival of the North Queens­ The Federal Labor Government should land banana industry depends upon cheap pay more attention to giving Queensland reliable transport to southe~n markets. Any its just deserts in the way of taxation increase in freights would make it more revenue, instead of throwing away urgently difficult for northern growers to compete required public funds on such academic, against growers in New South Wales. A luxurious extravagances as a national art steep increase in our freights could gallery of doubtful quality, which is more decimate the northern industry. intrinsically inspired than culturally prudent. "It is pleasing to know that our repr~­ That action is typical of the ill-founded, sentatives in Parliament are aware of this indiscreet, second-class thinking of the new situation." breed of socialists in Canberra whose men­ tality has no more regard for the truth Sir Gordon Chalk: Will you tell him I than for the easy-come, easy-go money that said, "Yes, I have no bananas."? they extract from the citizens and institu­ tions of this country by taxation which Mr. ROW: I certainly shall, and I shall is probably at a higher level than that in also tell him that the Treasurer might any other place in the world. Theirs is appreciate a small consignment of ripe a mentality which, unfortunately, eventually bananas. manifests itself in public thinking like a disease, a condition that people ,tend to Sir Gordon Chalk: No ladyfingers! become conditioned to or succumb to in despair; a dangerous condition which is Mr. ROW: We might even be able to already partly evidenced in the big cities attend to that. of the southern States of this nation; a disastrous conditioning of the people towards The Treasurer is to be congmtulated on socialist indoctrination-Fabian socialism in his remarkable achievement of maintaining its very worst form. I apologise to no-one desirable social trends in the administra.tion for that statement. There is no doubt in of education, child care, general community my mind that if the insidious, creeping services, law enforcement and other worth­ disease of Fabian socialism in this country is while social activities. It is to be hoped that not checked within the very near future it the Commonwealth Government will respond will turn this nation into something to which w1th matching finance in those areas in which no-one will want to come. it is normally to be expected. The Common­ wealth Government should lend full support Mr. Gunn: Are there any Fabian socialists in this Chamber? ,t0 the solid, down-to•earth policies of this stable State Government. Mr. ROW: The interjector can draw In this debate I have heard many remarks his own conclusions. by honourable members opposite designed This is a condition which has led people to demonstrate how much the Commonwealth who would normally know better to speak Government is prepared to do for Queensland of this State as a Cinderella State, a banana­ if Queensland co-operates. It is ridiculous land led by a flying peanut, or use some to assert that the Queensland Government equally childish and irresponsible phraseology. is failing to co-operate with the Federal The Premier will do me for a leader. Government. Nowhere in Australia is there a better example of a desire to co-operate Government Members: Hear, hear! than the Budget prepared by the Queensland Mr. ROW: He is the leader of the only Government, which creates automatically a totally stable and non-indoctrinated State in situation that invites contribution by the the Commonwealth. He is a decent, Christian Federal Government if it is really sincere leader with a conscience and with some about contributing to the welfare of Queens­ respect for the truth. landers. Any politically prudent Government of any colour must recognise that it should Mr. Wright: Some resrpect for the truth! be directing its aid to any stable State and Mr. Frawley: Not like Vhe respect that in that way helping its people and ensuring you've got for your leader. that stability continues. I sincerely hope that Opposition members play their part in per­ Mr. ROW: Members of the Oppo&ition in suading their Canberra counterparts to adopt this House-- a proper attitude to Queensland rather than continue to criticise the administration of Mr. Wright: That will be noted-"some Queensland, at the expense of its people. respect £or the truth". 1254 Supply [10 OcTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement)

Mr. ROW: A great respect for the trutlh, alleged lack of adequate royalties as a con­ as a matter of ,fact. tinuous argument against the State Govern­ Members of the Opposition tin this House ment and now he is accusing it of acting have endeavoured to make much political indiscreetly in raising the level of royalties. He is now taking the side of the multi­ capital out of the assertions that the benefic~al feart:ures of this Start:e Budget are based upon nationals which he formerly criticised and wanted to run out of the country. He Commonwealth conrtribul!ions. The tru~h of rhe matter is that Oommonweall!h con­ called them bloodsuckers and everything tributions fall far short of the just entitle­ imaginable. ment of :the State's citizens when one con­ If it were not for their being prepared, in siders the amount of revenue extracted from days gone by, to invest millions of dollars them by Commonwealth taxatlion. The of risk capital in this country, we would amount received for State and local autlh­ have had hardly a major industry here today. ority utilisation is a joke. What is received from the Commonwealth Government has Where would our motor indus,try be, to cite strings attached l!o it and is so directed as one industry? Look at the different types of to be of benefit only to what are considered motor vehicle that can be purchased in to be those 'areas that polirtically will most this country. This situation has resulted benefit the cause of :the Labor Party. from the capital invested in this country Examples are the urban transport systems, by multi-national institutions which took the a national highway via Canberra and the risk and carried on for years with low Albmy-Wodonga area for Canberra touDists. market potential and relatively low profit­ What about roads in our State's rural ability. Today, some of these companies areas? What about our State's rural and reg­ are almost half owned by their workers. ional development? All these important con­ However, these are the institutions that are sideDart:ions are left to the resources of the most criticised. State Government. Where development is A classic example of what can happen to most needed, the Federal Government is a comparatively young producer in this found to be sadly lacking. It prefers to dupli­ country at this point of time is, as the cate our health and social services, which are honourable member for Maryborough says, already well founded. It spends money in the plight of Leyland. It has been wiped rthe cities, wheDe it thinks it gains the great­ out of existence mainly by the policy of est polit~cal support-and to he1! Wlith our the present Federal Government. It did valuable rural expo11ting industries. The not give much consideration to the 3,000 Government even reduced tariffs so thart our workers wh,o are likely to be dismissed. How rural industries had to compete with ohe1ap much assisl.mce has it given to Leyland to foodstuffs imported fmm Communist help it survive? countries. Of cours~e, the Commonwealth Government now has the wind up and has The most amazing thing is, to use the reve11sed the trend to such an extent that terminology of the media, the row that exists it does not know where it is going. People between the Prime Minister and the Minister are in and out of buSiiness so fast ~hart the for Minerals and Energy (Mr. Connor). They economy ~s in a state of chaos. are at loggerheads over the very same issue that the Leader of the Opposition is so Take Vhe state of the beef industry today. inconsistent about-the "leave minerals in All worth-while privileges and incentives have the ground" policy. If the Queensland Gov­ been taken from rural producers. The State ernment had not in years gone by entered now has ~to rehabilitate Tural industries, which into agreements with the mining companies, have had if

world market quotations. Of course, it must relies heavily on industry as a source of be not only understood but also admitted revenue as well as an area into which both -and there are many people, particularly investment and labour can be channelled. politicians, who are not prepared to admit 'Dhe honourable member for Pine Rivers it-that Australia is one of the world's polinted out that certain smaller industries in major sugar producers. When Australia's the south-eas.tern corner of the State do not production enters the world sugar market enjoy the benefits that flow from integrated each season, it naturally, by dint of sheer and concerted effort. I sympathise with volume, creates depression in that market. those industries that are suffering from either This arises from the anticipated availa­ low-density population or lack of market bility of sugar from such a large producer. opportunities, but I suggest that they would We have to rely very lwgely upon contract­ do well to turn to less independent and ual arrangements and the optimum prices that more integrated activities, as the sugar indus­ can be achieved under those arrangements. try has done, in order to consolidate them­ Therefore, unless these rather delicate inter­ selves. national negotiations are conducted by people The State Government could do a great with long experience and expertise, they will deal to promote rural industries by partici­ not succeed. Increased production in the pating in research, particularly into land industry would stimulate these trends, and development and utilisation as well as access the requirements 1about which I spoke would to new areas. This brings me back to my become even more paramount. With sugar, earlier comments about developmental roads as with any other bulk commodity, long-term and the creation of a sound infrastructure. contracts at optimum prices are usually the Unless emphasis is placed on access to new best arrangement. areas in anticipation of industrial develop­ ment, the State will not continue to advance I was surprised that the honourable mem­ as it has done in the past. ber for Isis made no reference to the dom­ estic price of sugar in Australia, yet it The provision in the Budget of funds for is felt in many circles that this is long water resources is highly commendable. overdue for revtiew. The fixing of a domestic Mr. Newton: Thanks to the Australian price is, I believe, an industry matter, par­ Government! ticularly for an industry so well founded and integrated in its management as this Mr. ROW: I remind the honourable mem­ one is. It is not a matter for a politician's ber for Belmont that when the honourable decision. No-one would be mme pleased than member for Isis spoke yesterday about the I to see an increase in sugar price in this sugar industry he was standing on the plat­ country, but this is also a subject for nego­ form, as it were, of the new Kolan River tiations that ,are just as delicate as the dam, which will be one of the greatest assets international negotiations. There are factors to the south-eastern corner of Queensland. in the domestic market of this industry that Its construction was initiated by a former militate against msh and irrational moves Liberal-Country Party Government in Can­ and statements, and I believe that similar berra, and it is useless for the present Federal damage can be done to the domestic market Labor Government to try to claim credit for for sugar in this country by overexposure to this project now that it is nearing com­ political parochialism. pletion. Its construction was initiated long before Labor took office, and the State This industry has always been a shining Government, together with certain civic­ example to others lin its recognition of the minded people in the Bundaberg sugar­ value of research, and I must commend the growing areas, can take pride from the fact Treasurer for increasing the grant to the that their co-operation brought about the Bureau of Sugar Experiment Stations from success of the project. So the dam is cer­ $100,000 to $300,000. I think it would be tainly not a political platform erected for desirable, and perhaps more appropriate in the benefit of the honourable member for the long run, to pay a subsidy based on the Isis or, for that matter, the Federal Minister budget of the Sugar Bureau rather than for Northern Development. The Bundaberg make a straight-out grant. It would give region possesses vast potential for the sugar grea;ter flexibility to that organisation to allo­ industry. cate the funds in the light of ris,ing salaries It is very easy for the honourable member and other escalating costs. for Isis to be optimistic about potential pro­ duction in his area. I wonder if he realises I should like to suggest, with due respect, that sugar quotas in many areas of Queens­ that the Treasurer, when framing the next land are produced on 71 per cent of the Budget, might give consideration to making gross assigned acreages while some of the a more permanent and flexible arrangement northern mill areas are so badly off for in relation to the amount of Government -con­ land that they are required to produce sugar tribution to this organisation. No industry quotas on as little as 60 per cent of their can survive or prosper without research and areas. People who enjoy good prospects a great deal of mutual contribution from thanks to the efforts of this Government both the segments of the industry and the should not forget their neighbours who are Government. The Government, after all, faced with the impediment of low sugar Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1257 production per acre caused by tropical con­ State funds. I do not believe that the deficit ditions and price discrepancies of up to 30 for the Railway Department, about which per cent compared with more fortunate Opposition members have attempted to make areas. It is much easier to speak of expan­ po1itical capital. is anything more than a sion in a more favoured area. Everyone in service to the public. the sugar industry would welcome expansion, The proposed expenditure of $26,831.500 but some serious discrepancies need to be on irrigation

The increased expenditure on education, balance the Budget, which is 33.8 per cent the increase in the number of teachers to higher than last year. This is an inflationary be employed and the increase in the student Budget, yet he squealed when the Federal per-capita allowance to non-State schools are Budget was about 32 per cent up. An all very timely. The increased teachers' editorial in the "Bundaberg News-Mail" puts 5alaries, of which we became aware this the position very nicely. It reads- morning, will do much to overcome the dif­ "The Budget provides for additional ficulties that were beginning to manifest spending of $226 million, a rise of 33.8 themselves. per cent on the 1973-74 figure. In passing, It is pleasing to see that the State teacher it needs to be recorded that when the scholarship holders' dispute has been miti­ recent Federal Budget provided for gated to some extent by the action of the increased expenditure of 32.4 per cent, Government in allowing greater allowances. Queensland Government leaders simulated The school library booster grant is very horror at such extravagance. To offset the welcome. I remind the Minister for Works additional $226 million, extra revenue from and Housing that many State schools have mineral royalties, pay-roll tax and hos­ library books and equipment which cannot pital charges amount only to about $78 be used because of lack of space. This is million." an area for attention. Mr. Miller: Are you suggesting that we are The subsidies to handicapped children's spending too much money in .the Budget? services are also very welcome. I can recall Mr. JENSEN: I am simply pointing out when the State Government had to step what you said about inflation. in and rescue many of these organisations. It is gratifying that they are now being given The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. recognition and are receiving increased grants Dean): Order! The honourable member will from this Government. please address the Chair. The increase of 26t per cent for hospital services will do a great deal to improve the Mr. JENSEN: I am sorry, Mr. Dean. I already valuable health service that this am speaking, through you, to the interjector, State offers. I am sure it is the best in who needs some understanding of this infla­ the Commonwealth. The increase in nursing tionary Budget. The editorial continues- pay was also good to see. Our hospitals have "As the Treasurer has budgeted for only been used as a political football for so a minor deficit, where is the rest of the long that nobody is really aware of the money to close the gap coming from? true position. Matters are exaggerated so "Sir Gordon and his Premier may not much in this Chamber that the public are shout i.t out loud, but the answer is: Most confused about the true facts. of it from the Federal Government." I am pleased to see that the services of Mr. Alison: Rot! nursing homes and home-care organisations have been extended. To cite one example, Mr. JENSEN: Additional spending the Blue Nursing Service has grown beyond amounts to $226,000,000, and ·the Budget all expectations. From a very humble begin­ provides for only $78,000,000. I should like ning with one nurse and one car in Bris­ the honourable member who interjects to bane, the service has now spread all over read the Financial Statement. He will find the the State. I commend the Treasurer on actual figures contained in it. State revenue recognising this very worthy service and is increased by only $78,000,000, yet the increasing the amount paid per nurse. Dom­ total Budget increase is $266,000,000, which estic strains and awkward domestic situations is a rise of 33.8 per cent. The editorial con­ that occur in the care of the old have tinues- now been relieved so much that the public "Substantially increased payments from acknowledge any assistance the State Gov­ the Commonwealth-to which Queensland ernment is prepared to offer. is thoroughly entitled, naturally-and an (Time expired.) e:xctra $14.7 million from the Common­ \\ealth Grants Commission under the Mr. JENSEN (Bundaberg) (7.44 p.m.): I 'claimant' State provisions represent a thank the Treasurer for not gagging the significant lift to the State's funds. The debate this afternoon. If he had he would Queensland Government this year has been have deprived me of an opp~rtunity to most critical of the Commonwealth Gov­ speak. ernment for its alleged tightfistedness Once again he seems to have presented towards the States, and to Queensland in a ~easonably balanced Budget. However, his particular, but the funds flowing from estimates could be out to the same extent Canberra have helped Sir Gordon Chalk as they were last year when expenditure to bring down this remarkable State Bud­ was $47,200,000 and receipts were get." $50,000,000 above his estimates. This year The operative word is "r·emarkable". It is he has relied mainly on increased royalties indeed a remarkable Budget when the and pay-roll tax, which was lifted from 4t Treasurer is able to increase his spending by to 5 per cent. These two items are expected 33.8 per cent while the only additional to provide approximately $75,000,000 to help revenue that he is receiving from the State Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1259 is about $30,000,000 in royalty payments, costs all round, including of cou'I'Se the $39,000,000 in pay-roll ,tax and $5,000,000 costts otf operating vhe rail system, are con­ from hospitals. tinuilllly increasing." Mr. Miller: Would you say that this is Mr. Al:ison: Thank God fur tlhe ooal the best Budget in Australia? trains! Mr. JENSEN: Of course not! I shall talk Mr. JENSEN: The Treasurer said that lhe ~s receiving $30,000,000 fioom the coal tDains, about the Budget shortly. The honourable but each year the loss on the operations of member can have his say later. the railways appears to be in proportion to Mr. Miller: I am simply 'trying to help the quantity of coal carried. Each year the you. loss increases; each year the quantity of coal transported seems to increase by aborut 100 Mr. JENSEN: I am trying to tell the per cent. It is not possible to ascertain 1Jhe Committee how the Treasurer balanced his actual profit on the coal 1ines. That is Budget. never disclosed. The Treasurer shows the cost of a little line that was closed in uhe I said before that the key descriptive word north of Queensland and which the Premier when speaking of the Budget is "remarkable". has since moved

In 1973 the gallopers got 72.26 per cent, the Blue Nursing Service. These organisa­ the trotters 69.43 per cent and the greyhounds tions are now fairly adequately covered. 55.42 per cent. This year, the percentage We have been fighting for it for several to gallopers is down to 62 per cent; that years. A few years ago we had to find for trotters is up to 69 per cent, and the virtually 100 per cent of the funds required greyhounds' share went down to 46 per to support our handicapped children, whereas cent. I do not know what the Minister today the Budget makes almost total pro­ in charge of racing has against gallopers vision for them. this year. As I said, the allocation last year was $3,275,000 whereas this year it Mr. Alison: You have never made an is down to $3,222,000 although the turn­ appeal for that before. over was much higher. The gallopers' per­ centage has dropped from 72 per cent to Mr. JENSEN: If the honourable member 62 per cent while the percentage for trotters looks back through my speeches in this has gone up from 69.43 per cent to 69.68 Chamber since 1969, he will learn some­ per cent. thing. He comes in here and makes a loud noise like a great big frog but nobody Mr. Alison: What is getting at you? listens to him. Mr. JENSEN: I will show the honourable There is no doubt that police strength member what is getting at me and it will should be increased. Provision is made for get at every race club, too. In Bundaberg it but I doubt whether it will come about. the prize-money in one club rose by $7,500 Each year the Budget makes provision for and the increased distribution to that club this an increase but losses through resignation year amounted to exactly $150. The other and other causes offset the intake. The club raised prize-money by $10,600 and it Minister could increase his Police Force by received by way of increased distribution using retired officers. I have advocated this $1,700. This is why the clubs are complain­ year after year. He could use the officers ing. Trotting ,seems to be getting the "go" who retire at 60 and then go looking for this year. I do not know whether the other jobs. In Bundaberg they work on TTeasurer is patronising trots now ~nstead of various jobs outside the force whereas they the gallopers. He does change aronnd now could be doing the clerical work in the and t mission, they are squealing. The State Gov­ $2,000,000 to extend the Bundaberg City ernment has dished out money hand over Council system to take in the Woongarra fist, for example, to the Gold Coast City and Gooburrum areas. The honourable Council so that it can pump sand back member for Burnett knows that people in onto the beaches that were washed away. h[s area, not in the Bundaberg area, are Incidentally, it did not consider doing any­ squealing £or water. He receives deputa­ thing to help Cribb Island. Now that the tions every week from businessmen and coun­ Gold Coast has missed out on the Com­ cillors who want this land opened up, but the monwealth grants it is squealing. The Queens­ Government will not give the Woongarra land Government is now setting aside Shire Council a little extra water. J udg[ng by $5,000,000 to pacify certain Country Party the way the Government is handling the councils. irrigation scheme I do not think the council Mr. Frawley: What about Caboolture? will ever get the necessary water. I will be having much more to say about that shortly. Mr. JENSEN: I am just saying the grants The Woongarra Shire Council was not were based on needs. If the council in allowed a slight increase in its water alloca­ the honourable member's area could not tion to sewer land on the grounds that the show that it was in need, it has no cause small increase would bring salt into the for complaint. After all, the Treasurer con­ underground water supply. That is rubbish. tinually reminds us that the Grants Com­ The farmers use 25,000,000 gallons a day mission is an independent body, one that 'Without any trouble. The small amount of has nothing to do with the Federal Govern­ water required to sewer a few blocks of ment. He highlights the fact that Queens­ land in the Woongarra area would not affect land, as a claimant State, is given this money the over-all position. A farmer using irriga­ by an independent Grants Commission. I tion in that area uses more in a week than suggest that some local authorities will be those allotments would use in a year. It is 1262 Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) ridiculous that development should be held money has been spent on a population basis up for the sake of a small increase in the in Bundaberg in the last three years than wa,ter a11ocat.1on. in any other centre in Queensland. The The honourable member for Burnett high school at Bundaberg North is partially would like to speak about this maJtter but finished. Grade VII pupils are already accom­ he is hoarse and cannot speak tonight. How­ modated. ever, when he does speak about it he will The Treasurer mentioned that two new not press ,too hard in case it goe,s against technical colleges were to be constructed. his getting the next Cabinet vacancy. A $2,000,000 technical college has just been In referring to gmnts for capital works commenced in Bundaberg, though the Treas­ the honourable member for Hinchinbrook urer did not mention Bundaberg by name. spoke about school Ebraries. I am concerned It will be the most modern technical college mainly about classroom accommodation for in Queensland. children. Two years ago we got a few new school buildings in Bundaberg, but rooms In the capital works programme four are now being built under them. The Bunda­ new opportunity schools are provided. Again, berg South school, which is low-bui1t, has one is to be at Bundaberg. It should have no covered area. been occupied now. However, the Works Department gave Peak Constructions the Mr. Burns: There me tempomry class­ contract. The same company obtained the rooms, too. contract for the new $500,000 building for Mr. JENSEN: That is so. the Main Roads Department and a pre­ Instead of talking about classrooms for school, as well as the opportunity school. children, Government members talk about Those contracts covered work valued at libraries. The Government spends $40,000 almost $1,000,000, but the company went on a beautiful library and provides carpeting broke. It was a $2 company, as I mentioned on the floor, and next thing the children's to the Minister, with no assets, yet it parents write to the Minister through the received nearly $1,000,000 worth of contracts. columns of "Sunday Sun" pointing out that The opportunity school should have been the children have to take their shoes off opened last year. However it will not be before entering the library. Apparently they opened till later this year. The Main Roads do not put them on for the rest of the day building should have been completed in May and thus destroy their socks. last year and occupied before Christmas. Mr. Gunn: Are you game ,to go into your The staff moved in two weeks ago, more own house with muddy shoes? than 12 months after the scheduled date. The Minister for Mines and Main Roads will Mr. JENSEN: I always wear shoes in my 'house. I wipe my feet before I enter, unlike probably come up and open it-- pig farmers who do not know how to act Mr. Burns: At election-time. in their own homes. Mr. Gunn: You are not referring to me, Mr. JENSEN: Yes, next election. He are you? thinks it will do him some good, but it won't. Mr. JENSEN: No. Pig farmers and Japanese don't worry about that. I turn now to expenditure on irrigation The accommodation of the children in and water supply. I think it was the honour­ schools should be the first priority. I have able member for Hinchinbrook who con­ just mentioned the Bundaberg South school, gratulated the Government on the amount of where the department has now built an $26,831,500 that is proposed to be spent. elevated building with a couple of rooms This brings me to a point I raised before. on the top and space underneath for the The Monduran Dam irrigation scheme out­ children. They had none of that before side Bundaberg was commenced in 1969. because the school was built close to the Phase I of Stage I was supposed to be ground. Last year the underneath section finished in seven years-in 1975-76. But was built in. I am told that the Bundaberg what happened? Mr. Learmonth made a state­ North school will be built in next year. ment that was reported in the local Press Instead, another building should have been on Friday, 4 October, that it would be built, providing more covered area for the another seven years before the first phase children. was completed. "Call For Greater Rate In Irrigation Work" is how it was head­ I must mention the construction of further lined. I will read to honourable members high schools. In his Financial Statement what the Irrigation Commissioner said. The the Treasurer said that two entirely new report says- high schools would be constructed. He did not say that one would be a new million­ "Completion of Phase I works on the dollar high school to be constructed at North Bundaberg irrigation scheme was not Bundaberg. He did not want to mention likely for another seven years, the new Bundaberg because of the good representation Irrigation Commissioner for Queensland, I have been providing for Bundaberg. More Mr. Learmonth, said yesterday. Supply [10 OcTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1263

"He said substantial progress would be We must expect a drought by 1977 if we made on the Burnett barrage during believe Mr. Lennox Walker and some of 1975"- the other expert long-range weather fore­ it was supposed to be completed in 1975- casters. "but completion before the end of 1976 Before then we will have enough water seemed neither feasible nor practical at to fill a dam, but IliOW:here to put it. this stage. That shows how ridiculous this Govern­ "Unfortunately, because of the current ment's economics are. inflationary trends, the additional grant Mr. Ben Anderson, in addressing an irriga­ may not be sufficient to complete the tion committee meeting in Bundaberg, said- works as originally planned. "The possibility of sugar production "To this end, we are looking closely at expansion appears to be imminent. The what economics can be achieved." Sugar Organisation's leaders have expressed Mr. Learmonth foreshadowed an increase of an optimistic view regarding the need to 20 per cent in the water charges,, but he said produce more sugar to meet World that it could not be completed for seven demand and the Minister for Northern years. By then, the increase will be at least Development, Dr. Rex Patterson has pub­ 50 per cent. That indicates how stupid he licly stated that a blueprint for ,the expan­ can be. The barrage is supposed to be com­ sion of sugar production in Queensland pleted by 1975 and the complete works by should be standing ready for quick imple­ 1984. mentation in case the industry and the Queensland Government desired such Every time a new scheme is commenced, action." more State money has to be provided to balance the Federal money. If the Federal Mr. Blake: They won't expand unless Government has sufficient money to start a they have long-term markets. new scheme, let it get the scheme under way. I do not want

of sugar worth $70,000,000, but, with irriga­ assistance for those people instead of money tion, 600,000 tons of sugar could be pro­ for work on the reticulation channels. It duced, if need be. That letter was read is no good having men out of work on to the irrigatJion committee meeting that unemployment relief for six months when Mr. Learmonth attended in Bundaberg. millions could be granted to keep thlis work Mr. Row: Is this factual? moving. Newspaper efforts continually show that work is slackening off. That is disturb­ Mr. JENSEN: Of course it is. There is ing news. It must be kept going. The a call for a greater rate of activity in irriga­ irrigation committee will be coming to see tion work in a statement by Mr. Ben the Premier and the Treasurer and show Anderson, chairman of the 1rrigation and them how silly is the policy of spending water committee. a little bit of money in a lot of places. I received this letter this afternoon from When it oomes to aJdditional money £or the Bundaberg and District Irrigation Com­ housling, lmnoura:ble members all push the mittee- barrow for their own home town. We all "Dear Jim and Lou, want more housing and more liDiet cubby-holes jiO!f ~the stationmaster and ol!hers. morning. A lunch room fO!f !!he poPters has been I have mentioned the cold platform with­ built next to the toilets, which normally one out any facilities for passengers. There is can smeU for ~about 50 yards. There is no a ladies waiting room but I have never been wash basin in

He told me that he would get the Com­ Mr. CAMM: The honourable member may missioner for Railways to come up to Bunda­ say rthat that is unusual-and it is, because berg within a couple of weeks-but the under the last nine years of Labor administra­ commissioner came nowhere near Bundaberg. tion in Queensland rail freights were increased I told the Minister that the commissioner on 10 occasions. would give him the big "A", just as he Mr. Newton: Why do you keep going gave Mr. Knox the big "A" when he was back to the past? Why don't you talk about Minister for Transport. I added that Mr. the present? Lee would have the station fixed up when he was ready. Mr. CAMM: I have to go back to the past to make a comparison. I have to go Mr. K. W. Hooper: Do you really want back to the years when this State was him to come up there? unfortunate enough to be governed by the A.L.P. After all, it is the Labor Opposition Mr. JENSEN: I have been wanting him that is criticising this Budget. I am only to come up for two years, but it is a bit drawing the public's attention to the fact late now that the Premier has been up there. that we have been able to present a Budget that provides for none of these increases to Mr. K. W. Hooper: You don't want him which we became accustomed duting the there? years that the Labor Party governed the State. Mr. JENSEN: Not now. He is useless; This Budget vindicates completely the Gov­ he has done nothing for Bundaberg over ernment's policy of encouraging a free­ the years. We should take him out and enterprise development programme. I am drop him into the toilet. sure that it will bring increased production. Even the economic wizards in Canberra are Finally, I again stress the importance of now admitting that one of the main weapons allocating funds to irrigation. If the Gov­ in the fight against inflation is increased ernment does not want to see a return productivity. That was not encouraged by on its investment, it is not a business Gov­ the Federal Government's recent Budget or ernment. The Railway Department certainly the one it introduced last year. We know does not want to see any returns on its that productivity is not the only answer to investment; it does not seem to mind losing inflation, but it is one of the main answers $40,000,000 a year. Instead of paying in this State. $40,000,000 annually to the railways, which because of the inefficiency of the Minister I ask honourable members to contrast and his departmental heads are not being our Budget with the first Federal Budget run efficiently, the money should be put to be presented by the A.L.P. in Canberra, into irrigation to provide a return to the which discouraged one of the main industries Government. I ask the Government to of this nation, namely the mining industry. 11eaHocate the funds and set ·aside mrol'e Discouragement meted out to the primary for the irrigation scheme in Bundaberg. producers of Australia resulted in a loss to them estimated at $1,000 million. What Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister encouragement is there to go out and clear for Mines and Main Roads) (8.37 p.m.): land to increase production? What In joining in this debate I congratulate the encouragement is there for primary producers Treasurer on his presentation of an excellent to install watering facilities for stock or Budget, one that I am sure will help restore build large dams to irrigate crops, thereby the confidence of the people in their State increasing primary production, when the of Queensland. It will engender confidence expenditure necessary to effect these improve­ because the community will realise that the ments must come out of their net income, Government of the State is in good hands. with only a paltry 10 per cent--and as low as 5 per cent-allowed as a deduction? In . Despite . the current inflationary trend and the light of the high taxation rate, can any mcreases m costs that have to be met by primary producer afford to spend $5,000 the Government, there are no increases of or $6,000 on a small dam or $5,000 or any magnitude in State taxation. $10,000 on clearing and preparing new land for cultivation when the expenditure must The Budget provides record assistance for come out of his net income? Surely lc:cal ?overnment, allows for improved ser­ economic advisers in Canberra must realise VIce~ m health and . education, and provides that this policy is stifling production. for mcreased expenditure on the Police Force and, in fact, on all works under the control Under the former Government these incen­ of the Government. tives were given to primary producers­ some people might class them as concessions The. remar~able aspect of the Budget is -to clear land and build dams and new tha.t It provides for no increase in rail fences so that production could be increased. freights. ~s a matter of fact, rail freights Production is what we need in this country have remamed unchanged in Queensland since today. 1966. Tne depreciation allowed on machinery was reduced by the Federal Labor Govern­ Mr. Newton interjected. ment. Farmers will now buy fewer tractors Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1267 and other classes of machinery, and they a very honest public servant of this State­ will repair it themselves. This will be ,a public servant who was responsible for reflected in the employment opportunities for conducting ballots for the sale of cane farms factory workers in the city, where unem· in the Proserpine area. Because it happened to ployment is increasing today. be my name that came out of the hat, they Tariff protection was removed from many immediately claim that the ballot was rigged. Australian industries. About two months Mr. Newton: That's right. before the Federal Labor Party was elected to office, I delivered a speech on this very Mr. CAMM: It was under the jurisdiction subject. I forecast what would happen if of the stipendiary magistrate in the area. we were unfortunate enough to lose the Federal election to the A.L.P. Mr. Newton: Tell us the other two. Mr. Newton: All we ever hear from your Mr. CAMM: I challenge either member side of the Chamber is gloom and fear. or both of them to make those accusations outside the Parliament. But like dingoes Mr. CAMM: That is what A.L.P. mem­ they sit there and make accusations under bers live on; they thrive on distress and the privilege of Parliament. It does not unemployment. The A.L.P. set out deliber­ worry me two hoots. I can take all they ately to stifle production in Australia. It are capable of giving. The aspersions they set out deliberately to reduce profitability are casting are not on my character but of many undertakings to create massive on the character of a very prominent public unemployment so that a big segment of the servant-a good man and an able stipendiary population would be dependent on hand-outs magistrate of Queensland. from the Federal Government. Opposition Members interjected. As people become used to being subservient to a Government, a race of mendicants is The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. W. generated, which is what the Federal Gov­ D. Hewitt): Order! I ask the Minister to ernment wants. The introduction of socialism return to the Budget. into any country begins by creating unemploy­ ment and engendering the thought in the Mr. CAMM: Obviously the Leader of minds of people that the Government is the Opposition has decided that he is a person looking after them. People do not realise of prolific prose. At least, I presume that for quite some time that the Government's after hearing him quote 'Ogden N ash' and looking after them is only the commence­ the great bard himself, Shakespeare. His ment of its domination of them. David and Goliath Act in the Chamber on The inflow of capital was restricted by Tuesday fooled no-one, least of all his own the Federal Government. That worked members. They are still shaking in their against many of the development projects shoes at the very thought of a State election, that were contemplated in this country. We for they know full well the fate that will realise-and we readily admit-that the beset them. No wonder the honourable mem­ Federal Government must have the con­ ber for Isis tried some sabre-rattling in the trol of the exporting of this country's follow-up to his Leader. Unfortunately for resources; but when it restricts those exports him, his knowledge of the sugar industry is to the detriment of the people, it is time as limited-- that someone brought it to the notice of the people. Opposition Members interjected. Mr. Newton interjected. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Members of the Opposition should restrain Mr. Bromley interjected. themselves a little. Mr. CAMM: I heard the remarks of the member for Belmont and the member for Mr. CAMM: Unfortunately for him, his South Brisbane. If their twisted personalities knowledge of the sugar industry is as limited and outlooks on life are intended to indi­ as his capacity to present factual information. cate to the people of Queensland that the If the honourable member cared to check C.P.S. officer in Proserpine was a party on the many statements I have made in this to some skullduggery in a ballot Chamber and outside about the marketing conducted-- of our sugar, he would find that I have always paid compliments where they are Mr. Newton: Why blame him? due, including some to the Federal Labor Government. But I will deal with that later Mr. CAMM: The honourable member is in my comments on the sugar industry. blaming him, because he supervised any ballot that has ever been held in Proserpine. On Tuesday the Leader of the Opposition If the honourable member wants to repeat spent some considerable time giving the outside the Chamber what he is now saying, Committee a run-down on the State; what he I will bring it to the attention of the C.P.S. feLt was wrong with it, what the Labor officer, who will probably deal with him. Party would do, and so on. I could have But the honourable members are like dingoes. told him what was wrong with this State. They sit on the other side of the Chamber, I have lost count of the number of times I casting aspersions and making slurs against have said what is wwng with it. The 1268 Srtpply [10 OCTOBER 1974) (Financial Statement)

Premier, the Treasurer----,in fact, every single those companies out of Australia. They were Minister and every Government member­ spending hundreds of millions of dollars in could have told him. explomtion projects in this country. They What is even more alarming is that the are now exploring for oil and minerals in Commonwealth Government's advisers­ other parts of the world. those experts in the mining and minerals Very shortly the same gentleman will be section of the Commonwealth Public Service screaming about our oil reserves. He will -could have told the Leader of the Opposi­ want to increase the productivity of our oil 'tion what was wrong with the relationship fields because, even though we might be be,tween this State and the Commonwealth. mining close to 70 per cent of our needs at The advice of those experts was ignored and present, the time will come when we will overruled by the trendies, the academics, be mining 50 per cent and then 40 per cent. whose only claim to fame is that they once Then, like other western nations we will be wore "It's time" badges and became instant held to ransom by Middle East countries­ experts on everything almost overnight. simply because no encouragement was given A't last we might get some guide-lines as to those companies when the time was ripe to where the mining industry is going. Now for them to continue operations in Australia the Prime Minister, a,ccording to the Press, and instead ,they were chased out of intends to clip the wings of Mr. Connor. Australia. Read what appeared in "The I hope that will silence for ever all the little Courier-'Mail" this morning. chirpers on the other side of the Chamber Mr. Newton: Tell us how you chased whom we have had to suffer for so long. Comalco out to the Hawaiian Islands. I mean those members who loudly pro­ claimed that we were selling our birthright, Mr. CAMM: I shall tell the honourable and that we should not sell our mineral member very shortly what happened to resources but rather we should retain them Comalco. Here is part of a newspaper for future generations. At least one must report of uran[um producers ~ocu'sing the be thankful for small mercies. What amuses Federal Governmenrt: of crippling the uranium me is that the Prime Minister had to go indust'ry- outside Australia before realising that his "They sa,id the industry had been very policy was det~imental ,to the economic healthy before Labor came to power in welfare of this nation. 1972, but the lack of clear Government ,poHcy had brought: the industry to irts Mr. Bromley: That's only your opinion, and it's a pretty poor one. knees." Mr. Bromley interjected. Mr. CAMM: It might be only my opinion. But the minerals ww is looming. WhiHam The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN {Mr. W. and Connor disagree. The honourable mem­ D. Hewitt): OI'der! The h!onoumble member ber might have the same opinion a:s Mr. for South Brisbane should moderart:e his Connor, who criticised a report which said 'language a Httle. I hemd what he sa

oondemnation of th1s Government and his We have coal in Central Queensland, and ibHnd acceptance of everything that comes now we find a very quaint idea emanating from Canberra, because, less than 48 hours from Canberra relative to the open-cut mining after he gave out his comments on the min­ of that coal. There are people in Canberra ing i:ndustry, we have witnessed he ground. encouragement to ,the people, and how it is being frustrated by the actions of people in I have already indicated that the Federal Canberra whose policies members of the Government chased away investment c~llpibal Opposition follow blindly. through revaluation of tJhe Aus1mHan dollar. As I said, they are now criticising open­ By their refusal :to follow revaluation of the cut mining operations in Queensland. When American dollar, they made AustraHan cur­ I became Minister for Mines 9! years ago, rency oo expensive throughout the world that open-cut mining was regarded as being Comalco could not afford to build an alumina economical down 1to a depth of about 70 ft. piant at Weipa. Instead, they are going to of overburden. Today open-cut mining can b?ild Dheir plant in Malaysia or the Phrilip­ be carried out to a depth of hundreds of pmes. They built another plant in Sardinia. feet. One operation is being planned at But they just oou1d not afford to build one in AustraHa. 400 ft., and the Utah Company, before com­ pleting its open-cut mining operation on one A consortium of Japanese companies was seam, expects to be down to 500 ft. In prepared to examine the fe,asibi!ity o[ ibui1d­ Collinsville at present, one mining company ing a uranium-enrichment plant in vh~s State finds it economical to mine by open-cut that would have pmvided employment for methods pillars of coal that had to be left hundreds, even thousands, mf workers. The in an underground operation some years Premier took replrese,ntat,ives of the con­ ago. sortium to Canberra, wheTe they were told Where would the Government have been quite bluntly by Mr. Connor that they weTe if it had said to ,the coal companies-the not wanted in this country. limit was then thought to be 70 ft.-"Y ou will mine by open-cut methods down to Mr. Bromley: Who were the companies? 150 ft., then mine underground."? They would have been mining coal underground Mr. CAMM: That was a consortium of that could have been mined by open-cut Japanese companies. I had a 'Consmmium of methods at present. Anyone who knows any­ German and Italian steel mills ~that was pre­ thing about underground mining realises that pared to come he

Mr. CAMM: As I indicated earlier, it Mr. Hinze: They are going to make Fred amazed me that the Prime Minister of this a commissar. country had to go to the United States of America to discover that his Government's Mr. CAMM: I don't think they would. policies on mineral conservation were bring­ I think he would be eliminated when they ing the nation's economy to its knees. I eliminated the States. should like honourable members opposite to I should now like to say a few words stand up and be counted as Queenslanders about the honourable member for Isis, who on this issue; to stand up, for once, for the went to great lengths on Tuesday to criticise rights of the people who elect them-the what he claimed were my attitudes on pro­ people of Queensland. We are all proud that posed sugar sales to Communist China. He we are Australians. But we are also Queens­ even suggested that my remarks would landers, and it is the people of Queensland damage the sugar industry in this State. I who elect us to this Assembly to look after have never heard anything so ridiculous. their interests. It is about time ,the Labor I will quite openly challenge the honourable members in this Chamber showed their member for Isis to put his record of efforts allegiance to their voters. for the sugar industry in this State on the I think we have heard enough about the table and compare them with the work policy of the Federal Government to know I have done for this industry over the last that it is working to the detriment of this 30-odd years in my capacity as a growers' State. It is retarding development; it is representative, as chairman of directors of retarding production, and it is increasing a sugar mill and as vice-president of the unemployment in Queensland. I know that, Australian Sugar Producers' Association. for some honourable members opposite, the I have never uttered, in this Chamber position can be rather traumatic. They have or out of it, any word of disparagement to toe the party line or woe betide them; which would affect the sugar industry. I they will suffer the fate of some of the am proud of the way it is constituted and members I have known in this House, who of the men who control it. I have said were cast out. We have seen it happen so many times that my faith in the industry often to men in the Labor Party who have rests with the men who are elected by the tried to retain their original principles and industry itself to govern its affairs. Let us beliefs. keep politics out of it. The industry has its growers' organisations, its milling organ­ What is more, honourable members isations and the statutory bodies which the opposite are quite content to support a industry elects to look after their interests, Government in Canberra that is obviously and to which the Government appoints a set on the destruction of the States and all chairman and secretary. I have given every they stand for. They will be pallbearers support to the actions taken by these various at their own funeral. bodies, whether they be composed of Mr. Newton interjected. growers' representatives, millers' representa­ tives or representatives of the statutory Mr. CAMM: Anyone who reads Mr. bodies. I know how democratically they Whitlam's book or listens to his utterances are elected and I know the responsible atti­ in the House in Canberra will know that tude that they adopt towards the sugar he has said that the aim of every State industry. parliamentarian is to work for the ultimate Further, let the honourable member com­ elimination of State Parliaments. He has pare the record of his party with that of said that. His policy is a big central gov­ the National and Country Parties in both ernment in Canberra surrounded by a little the State and Federal spheres and then let group of communes in the various States. him try to convince the sugar industry and We saw it start today in South Australia. the cane farmers that his party's anti-rural We saw today that the South Australian bias has not brought about the greatest Government has abolished a lot of local antagonism towards any Government, State authorities, bringing the number down to or Federal, in the history of this nation. We about 49. The plan in Queensland is to saw the result of that in the Federal election have about 10 regions. These regions will when the cane farmers rose up and expressed be the governing bodies for the local areas. their sentiments by their votes. Russia has them; they are in the charge The honourable member also claimed that of commissars who, with small groups of the Labor Party was responsible for the people, control them. organisation of this great industry. One This is what we will finish up with in action that brought about the development Queensland and Australia if we are not of the sugar industry in many parts of the careful. If we do not retain the status of State was the introduction of the Suga:r State Parliaments and are quite content to Works Guarantee Act. It was brought for­ sit idly by and work in collaboration with ward many years before the Labor Party a party and a Federal Government whose even had a member in the Queensland Parlia­ policy is the elimination of State Parliaments, ment; in fact it was introduced in 1898. Queensland and other States will finish up Under that Act the Government of the with a lot of little regions run entirely by day agreed to guarantee money to any central control in Canberra. group of farmers who were prepared to Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974) (Financial Statement) 1271

submit their deeds as guarantees. It also This happened only because a group of agreed to build sugar mills along the coast people like me had the "temerity'' to suggest of Queensland. Many mills constructed under to the Queensland Government that it should the provisions of that Act became centml adopt the recommendations of a committee sugar mills. Many of them today l!lre purely of inquiry chaired by a Supreme Court co-operative mills, owned by the farmers judge, which not only heard evidence in for the benefit of the farmers as well as Queensland but also went to the Food and of the other people in the area. This policy Agricultural OrganisaJtion segment of the was introduced long before the Labor Party United Nations in Rome to hear its assess­ came into power in this State. ment of the prospects of sugar sales through­ Mr. Burns: We had a Labor Government out the world. After studying all the evidence in 1895. it could collect, this committee made its recommendations. Yet the honourable mem­ Mr. CAMM: There was not a Labor ber for Isis, as a farmer, said that we Government in 1898 when that Act was should disregard completely the recommenda­ passed. tions made by this committee of experts I remember that when the honourable on the sugar industry chaired by a Supreme member for his entered Parliament he Court judge. mounted a vitriolic attack on the Govern­ Mr. Blake: You completely disregarded the ment's decision to implement a recommenda­ Cane Growers' Council. tion made by a committee of inquiry to bring about an expansion of the sugar Mr. CAMM: Every member of the Queens­ industry. This expansion resulted in the land Cane Growers' Council, every mill admission of 1, 000 new grower& to the sugacr1 suppliers' committee and cane growers' industry. As I say,

Mr. CAMM: The honourable member can Dr. Pa,tterson has done for the industry; bring any "Hansard" he likes to this Chamber but, when he returns in a bLaze of glory and and read it from cover to cover. I defy him publicity on the basis that he has been to find anywhere in "Hansard" where I successful in negotiating a long,term sugar criticised a Federal representative who did agreement with China, I want someone to not deserve to be criticised. produce to me the details of that agreement. Mr. Blake: I will show you. For how many ye,ars are we to deliver 300,000 tons a year? What was ·the price Mr. CAMM: The honourable member negot13Jted? When do we start sending it? referred to the sugar sales to China. I refer him to an article that appeared in the Mr. Blake: No-one pretended that it "Sydney Morning Herald" of 16 November would start immediately. last year, written by the newspaper's economic writer, Mr. Alan Wood. In writing about Mr. CAMM: I invite the honourable the Federal Government's delegation to member to look at "The Daily Mercury" Peking, he gave recognition to the Minister and the Press releases that were made. for Northern Development, and I gave him recognition, too-- I have always expressed the belief that, left alone, we can negotiate our own agree­ Mr. Biake interjected. ments on sugar wherever we unde•rtake Mr. CAMM: I will give the honourable negotiations. We do not need to play member a transcript of a broadcast that politics to sell our sugar. It is purely a I delivered in Mackay if he wants me to case of supply and demand. We have the do so. It is more important to that Minister goods at the right price, available under the that I should acknowledge in Mackay, his right conditions, and we will sell them, o":'n area, what he is doing, rather than in whatever the politicai persuasion of the th1s Chamber. This economic writer wrote country we are selling to. in these terms about the Federal Govern­ China will buy our sugar when she needs ment's delegation to Peking- it. She has bought it on many occasions. "But even Dr. Patterson did not expect Unfortunately we had to bag sugar to sell to be able to announce agreement on the to China because China did not have bulk­ sale of about 300,000 tons a year of unloading facilities. However, no bagging Australian sugar to China." facilities of any magnitude remain in Incidentally, the sugar has not been sold Australia. There were some in the Towns­ although Dr. Patterson received headline~ ville bulk terminal, but I think the industry about the sale in other papers. As yet, no is reluctant to bag sugar when it can sell sale has bee~ made, and no contract has in bulk all that can be produced. been entered mto. Provided the Government agrees with the Continuing with the quotation- terms of any contract entered into, I am "He could, in fact, have saved himself sure that ultimately ,the Colonial Sugar the effort this time. The Chinese had Refining Company, as agent for the Queens­ taken the decision before ·the Au&tmHan land Sugar Board, will negotiate a long,term delegation arrived. agreement with China. I am quite sure the "The Colonial Sugar Refining Company, Federal Minis·ter responsible for .the sugar on behalf of t~e Australian sugar industry, industry will be quite prepared to go to China had been talkmg for two years with the to sign the agreement on behalf of the Chinese on longAerm agreements."- Australian Government. ! stress "two years"-long before the Let no politician claim-and I include Australian Labor Party gained .the Govern­ myself-any association as a politician with ment bench in Canberra. Mr. Wood con­ ·the sale of Queensiand sugar to any country tinues- in the world. I claim some association w1th "When Dr. Cairns led the Austmlian it when I held an executive position in the Trade Mission to China in May, he wa.s sugar industry, but not as a member of told by the Chinese Government that it Parliament. To the best of my ability I will was interested in and had under study continue to look after the interests of ·the long-term arrangements on a number of industry and the interests of the growers commodities, including wheat, sugar, wool engaged in that industry. I wish to place that and tallow. on record, because it is not the first time "The study on sugar was completed that the member for Isis has risen in the before the Whitlam visit, and the Chinese, Chamber to make claims about remarks he not unaware of the politics of the situa­ feels I have made and to distort facts about tion, chose the visit to confirm ·their the industry. intere&t in a large long-term contract for Mr. Blake: As you said, you have forgotten the import of Australian sugar." more than I ever learned. So much for the magic deals negotiated by Mr. CAMM: Yes, that is so. a Federal M·inister that we have heard so much about from Opposition members in Mr. Blake: When it comes to distortion, this Parliament. I pay tribute to the work you would be the master. Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1273

Mr. CAMM: J,t is all on the record in find that there are very many views and "Hansard". The honourable member may many variable problems that have to be faced reply at any time he wishes. by not only the State Government but also the Federal Government. Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (9.25 p.m.): The Minister spent much of his time relating There is growing and warranted concern to this Assembly his attitude to the Austra­ in the community that the existing system of lian Government's programme on foreign a democratically elected Parliament, respon­ investment. He had a lot to say about min­ sibLe to the people, is gradually being ing. This is to be expected in view of his replaced by an appointed bureaucracy respon­ position. I think it is also worth reading into sible only to those above it in order of "Hansard" some of the alternative views. seniority. Major studies have been carried Having listened to him, I thought it best that out into the growth of bureaucracy. The I go downstairs and get a booklet I was results have revealed clearly 'that in recent given. It was published by fhe Select Com­ deoades there has been a very definite lessen­ mittee on Foreign Ownership and Control ing of control by the elected parliamentarians of Australian Resources in October 1972. It or 'the elected Parliaments over their admin­ is worth noting that that was before the istrative instruments. Whitlam Government came to power. It I know 'that in this Chamber many solu­ must be kept in mind that it was then a tions have been proposed. Some solutions Liberal-Country Party controlled com­ have been such that we make Ministers more mittee. responsible for their departmental errors. On page 1 the committee recommends This is an interesting point. Possibly if we that- went back to the British idea we would have Ministers in this Parliament resigning every "(1) The Government give urgent con­ second day because we have certainly watered sideration to determining key strategic or down that policy or principle in the State sensitive areas where foreign investment Assembly. should be limited or excluded; "(2) The Government give urgent con­ Another alternative has been that we set sideration to a review of ,the existing taxa­ up some type of public accounts committee tion provisions and double taxation agree­ of members of Parliament. Its role would be ments to remove the advantages ,that can to review, on a regular basis, the accounting be obtained by overseas investors but not procedures and expenditure of this State. by Australians; Mr. Chinchen: A public works committee? "(6) The Government give consideration Mr. WRIGHT: As the honourable mem­ to either expanding the activities of the ber says, we have also suggested the estab­ Australian Industrial Development Cor­ lishment of a public works committee. Again poration and the Australian Resources this is an ideal way of reviewing what one Development Bank, or establishing other might call the inputs and outputs of 'the special purpose organisations." administration of the State. It has been sug­ gested that we even look at the establish­ It also deals with the role of the Treasury ment of estimates committees, and that we and the part that the Treasury can play in go further into subordinate legislation com­ gathering statistics and information. mittees. Further suggestions have been that On page 6, under the heading "Foreign we remove the statutory independence of the Ownership and Control", it states- various Government and semi-governmental "The fundamental problem encountered authorities. This is probably a very dangerous by the Committee is the lack of any thought, but it has some merit. national economic planning policy or objectives which can be used as a frame­ Mr. Chinchen: You have been reading the work against which 'the benefits or other­ speech made by the honourable member for wise of foreign investment can be related." Clayfield four years ago. Up to this point we did not have the infor­ Mr. WRIGHT: No. I was asked to enter mation that was required. It continues- the debate so I went downstairs and put a "It has also resulted in a situation where few notes together. all State Governments continually encour­ It has also been suggested that we restrict age overseas firms to set up operations in the regulation-making power that the depart­ their State, all too often in competition ments have under the various Acts of Parlia­ with each other. This competition inevit­ ment. I think we could combine with this ably leads to a bidding up by State Gov­ ,the need to update the review procedures of ernments, in either the provision of regulations and Orders in Council generally facilities or the lowering of royaLties or that we have in this Chamber. Honourable other generous concessions." members know that a regulation could be The report goes on to show the dilemma promulgated in April but not 'tabled in the with which this country has been faced­ House until August. It could therefore be the question of foreign investment. I do not applied in this State for many months before think it is up to the Minister to get up and we had a chance to move for its disallowance. espouse what he believes is ,the only view, But if we moved for disallowance and were because if one bothers to read this one will fortunMe enough to get our motion carried, 1274 Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974} (Financial Statement)

.the Governor in Council-the Governor and allocations to the various departments, and Cabinet-could bring down the same regula­ this in effect means nothing when one is tion the very next day. There is obviously a endeavouring to scrutinise the worthiness of need here to update procedures. the programmes stated. . All that memb~rs It has also been suggested that the appoint­ can do is make an enlightened observat10n ment of an ombudsman will overcome on the fact that more or less money has problems. I think it is yet to be seen been spent, or is being spent, this year ~an whether that will be so. last year. That is all very well, but we might ask what ,the money is to be spent on, and I agree that most of these ideas have some why. Is the money being spent most effe_c­ value, but I $ay that if this Parliament wants tively and efficiently? Why have certam to regain the power that it has lost, and projects been ~selected instead of others? retain what it is fighting to hold, one of the What alternatives were suggested by the first changes to be made should be not so decision-makers? On what basis have much the establishment of comm~ttees-be present priorities been determined? There they public accounts, public works <;>r are many, many questions ,that need to. be estimates committees-but a change m asked in these circumstances, and certamly existing Budget procedures. Twelve months in this debate. ago during the Budget debate I advocated the adoption of a system of programme budget­ Fortunately members have befme them ing. Like Robert Bruce, I intend to try, try the Financial Statement as presented and try again until the Treasurer has given by the Treasurer, and it is a very worthy sympathetic and deep consideration to my document. No doubt the Treasurer pmc­ proposals. tises the reading of it for many hours before presenting it in this C:ha~ber. It is a I have noticed that Government members detailed document, and It Is the only one are all ~too ready to make light of the Budget we have that gives us an idea of how money debate. They tend to use it merely as a was spent in the last financial year and parish pump. I wonder why, because this how the Treasurer intends rto spend it in is, after all, the most important debate of the present financial year. the year. This is the opportunity that members have to check the administration Mr. Hinze: What's wrong with that? of 1the Government, and to look over past Mr. WRIGHT: I am saying that it is and projected programmes of the Treasurer. the only document that does that. It at This is our opportunity to scrutinise the least allows members to get an idea of the expenditure of the State. This is the only way in which the Government intends to opportunity that members really have to spend part of its money. Even though question the Government's planning and everybody realises that it is nothing mor.e programming. I,t is our real opportunity to than a political propaganda document, It gauge whether or not the State' is being does at least help us to enter this debate. governed fairly. But is this all that the Budget debate is I suppose no-one could really blame supposed to be? Is it meant to be only Government members if they do not use this a debate on the way in which the Treasurer opportunity effectively. In fact, I do not says he is going to use the money? suppose any member of Parliament could be I say there is an alternative, and I ask blamed for not using this opportunity effec­ you, Mrs. Jordan, how this Parli.ament can tively, because one has only to glance at really scrutinise proposed expenditure when the various documents that we are given to the information given is minimal. Is it any see that they are nothing more than a con­ wonder that Government members, especi­ glomeration of figures and statistics. How ally, resort to parish-pump speeches? Admit­ the average member of Parliament ever learns tedly, when the departmental reports. are to ascertain from them what is going on is printed one can go back to make compansons beyond me. What do we get from these between what the various departments did documents? We are told how much was with their money and how much they were spent in 1973-74, and what is estimated to given. But, as most honourable members be spent in 1974-75. We are told the know one does not get the reports amounts appropriated, the amounts spent, until ' the Budget has been presented. I and ,the amounts envisaged to be spent in the think we all know how difficult the reports next year. And that is all that we get. are to get, and we also know that they are Mr. Blake: What planning and program­ worded in a very guarded way. After all, ming are you referring to? they become political documents in them­ selves, and the people who write them do Mr. WRIGHT: I shall come to that, and not wish to embarrass the Government. I think it will be seen that in this case there is no planning and programming. Again honoumble members are in a dilemma and are forced to battle on with the infor­ We are supposed to judge objectively the mation that is provided. Government's programming and, moreover, It is of interest to me to see how much we are supposed to judge objectively what has been done in the past year. I say that this money is l,isted as "Incidentals", "Contin­ is an impossible task on the information gencies" and "Miscellaneous". that we are given. We are provided with Mr. Chinchen: You have been reading nothing more than a list of the financial old speeches. Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1275

Mr. WRIGHT: No, I have not been read­ the Treasury gets hold of them, it cuts back ing old speeches. the estimates, and the process then begins all over again. The departmental heads know Mr. Cmnchen: Yes, you have. It is the difficulties they face, and I think hon­ almost word for word. ourable members appreciate those difficulties Mr. WRIGHT: With yours? and understand that being involved in the preparation of the Budget is no easy task. Mr. Chinchen: Yes. Honourable members are well aware that Mr. WRIGHT: I am glad that someone the departmental heads have to have their agrees with me. It is a privilege to have individual appropriations calculated and then the honourable member on my side for once. either accepted or rejected, and it is a long task. We appreciate also the difficult Mr. Murray: One of the worst features is task that the Treasury has in culling out the tradition that has grown up in this Par­ the unnecessary and cutting the cloth accord­ liament over 50 years or more of debating ing to the available resources. The Treasurer each year half, or less, of the departmental has an unenviable task in drawing up the Estimates. Budget. I do not envy him one little bit having to say to a Minister, "Look, we Mr. WRIGHT: I could not agree more. I just have no money." All honourable mem­ think the Committee will debate five depart­ bers have spoken to Ministers about doing mental Estimates this year. The amount of something in their electorates and heard the t!m~ for those debates will be extremely Minister say, "We haven't any money." hmtted, and the number of members who will be able to take part in them will also be Mr. Hinze: Why aren't you charitable limited. I agree with the honourable member to the Treasurer? Why don't you give him for Clayfield that something should be done credit for an excellent Budget? about it, and I am pleased that I have at least some support from honourable members Mr. WRIGHT: I thought I was being opposite. charitable. I am being sympathetic towards The point I make is that the whole Budget him because I know the huge task he has, and I think I am being fairly sympathetic to debate becomes something of a joke, and I Treasury officials because I know the task suggest also that Parliament becomes some­ they have. After all, the Treasury is not thing of a joke. As members, we are sup­ a bottomless well. We know that there is po~ed to ~et as the watchdogs of the people. not enough money to satisfy everybody's It 1s our JOb to watch over the public purse whims and wants. We know that no and to see that the moneys raised in revenue Government, irrespective of its political are used correctly, effectively and efficiently. How can we honestly do that with the infor­ colour, will be able to satisfy the wants of every person or the needs of every part of mation that is given to us under the budgetary the State. But even if we take all these system now used? things into account, the system is open to I really believe that honourable members criticism because members of this Parlia­ want to exercise their rights as custodians ment are unable to carry out their appointed of the public purse, but I say that the roles as part of the supervisory control system makes it impossible. No member mechanism of State expenditure. whether he is on the Government side o; the Opposition side, has an effective say I do not intend to rrehash the whole oase in this matter. Members do not have a say I put fo.-ward last year in favourr of pro­ at the beginning, when the expenditure is gramme budgeting, but I still say that pro­ being decided. They do not have an opport­ gramme budgeting is part, or the whole, unity of exercising their role by saying of the answer to our problem. We need to "We want this money spent here or that do away wirth ·this whole idea of basrng money spent there." The only opportunity what we spend this year on what we spent members have to speak is when the Budget last yearr. I know that all members agree is presented in this Chamber, and I do with me on thrs. We have all had the not believe they have an opportunity to play experience of departments looking back over effectively their role as the watchdogs of what they have spent. They have to be the bureaucracy. sure that t-hey spend ~t in the fi·rst place, because I have been told that if they do The Budget is supposed to detail to Par­ not spellJJd it they do not get it next year. liament the Government's ways and means of We always get that sudden fear at the end raising revenue and, in turn, its general and of the financial yeaJr when things are being specific plans of expenditure. We know done. Suddenly schools are being extended Mrs. Jordan, that behind the formulatio~ or masoruirte is being ']JUt on ftoorrs­ of the Budget documents lie weeks and OT carpets nowadays. weeks of inter and intm-departmental con­ sultation. I have spoken to some depart­ Mr. Hinze: You are lucky. You have n:ental heads who say that fhey begin plan­ have friends at court. mug for the Budget many months before it is brought down. Their submissions have to Mr. WRIGHT: Doesn',t the honourable be taken to a senior departmental head, member get 1t down his way? I thin!k thiis who then takes them to the Treasury. When happens eve,rywhere. Because of the ru;,h to 1276 Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) spend money at the last moment it is arre known then one statts to determine the amazing what one can get out of the Wol'ks objectives. These :are determined not only in Department and other departments if one line with what is wanted but also in Hnle asks nicely. I certainly have had thart: Wlil:!h a rrev,iew of the previous objectives experience, nnd I appreciate 1:he assi:s1tance Possibly the most important benefit here, that has be~n given me. But, after all, this however, is that aiternatives aore listed in is bad administmtion; it is maladmirnstmtion. detail, and are always ~a¥ar1able for com­ It prevents total planning and encourages parison. the old idea of empire building. One is I wonder what the standard of debate in inclined ·to keep building up one's resou•rces vhis Ohamber would be if members of Par­ and ·to retain what one has rather tha:n to liament oould say, "Yes, t!he Trreasurer said oonsllider the needs or •requirements of the he wants to spend the money on this, but State in general. There is also the possibility when he was considering that he looked at of huge wastage. these other altermatives. The Treasmer was I recall mentioning in this Ohamber abourt goling rto mise the money in this way, but four years ago that a tankstand was buillt at these are the other >alternatives he considered." a school two weeks after it was supposed to I believe we would have a far be11ter debal!e. close. New lib11aries were installed only a few weeks before schools were srupposed to Mr. Lee: You are a complete theorist. dose•. In fact, one school had rure>ady Mr. WRIGHT: I suggest that the honour­ closed when a new fence was put up. That able member star.t talk:ing to some of the is thie sort of nhing that goes on towards the people in his own Government a:nd in .the end of the financial year, because if ·the Co-ordinator-General's Department. He money has been aUocated it must be spent. will find that they not only agrree with me We should get away from this depart!­ but tJhat they ~wre already using some of mental mentality and give emphasis to goals these prr]noiples. So he ~s completely wrong and objectives !!hat are desimble, not simply on that po~nt. bas.ing what we spend on what we have spent 'Ilhe second facet is that of programming, before. We are only just beginllling to plan and this is suudy •a part being played by :tlhe on a !'egional and State basis, but we are Co-ordinator-General's Depa11tment. It dloing it, and that is the most impor11ant invoQves the co•ordiniation of reoources and rhing. Dming the last Budget debate .nhb manpower and :the organising of •related activ­ Treasurelf hoo-ha'd some of my views, but ~Dies. Nacmally the rigid departmental Lines he forgot that one of his own deparrtmemts must often give way, but surely ~the present was, im a sense, using the process I was Co-orrdinator-Gene.ral's Department has shown talking about. '!!hat tJhis can be done to the benefit of a11 So we are beginning to plan on a regi•onal oo[Jcemed. and State basis, but we Sltill need to pLan over We have adopted this principle in this all rather than on the needs of the indlividual Chamber by saying we have to set up some departments. We also need to adopt long­ type of regional organisation; we need to i:e!'m planning as a basis of expenditme. I co-ordinate the resources of local authorities; have spoken before on the problems that we have to make sure we know what the arise beca:use we have three-year P•arliameiJ'ts over-all objective is. We say, "Let us which do not really 'allow forr long~term not be parochial. We must not let one shire planning. Bun less so does the £aot that we council decide or determine how the money have a 12-months' budgetary period. We will be spent in a particular region." We say we are planning for a 12·months' per~od add, "Let them co-operate and co-ordinate; but, in effect, we are rplanning forr only a let them organise their services, their rune-months' period, knowing fuil weU th>ai resources and their manpower and set about we have to have gaps tlo oatch up. achieving their goal and objective." We The pe11rod is often shorter than 12 mon!Vhs also say, "Hooray! That is what we want." and we know, as I said before, thart: the Yet when we start talking about the idea money is often spent ·at the end. It is often on a total State basis it is, as the honourable held. I am told by some departments that member for Y eronga has said, supposed to they have to hinld the money in case >they run be only for the theorists. out. They cannot spe>nd wiLdly at the The third aspect is that of budgeting. beginning because, >at the very end, they still This aspect centres wholly on the translation have to carry on the wnrks programmes or of long-term performance proposals, goals the functions of the depamment. I nhimk we and objectives in terms of available resources have got omselves •into a grroove, and we and costs. Possibly we could simply call keep saying that we cannot change it because it the costing of the project. But this is rt is the system. I say that it can :be changed, what it is all about, and this is the part and that there are ways amund it. we do, anyway. However, we do not do Programme budgeiing has been proved in it on a long-term basis, nor do we do it in other parts of the world. While I admit line with the needs of other :areas in the that there are many varia11ions, 1Jhe system State. involves four basic facets. The first is that The final facet is that of control. This of plannting. That is the point at which vhe is the unique aspect of programme budgeting, ass·esSiment of needs :is made. Once the needs and one that we do not have in Queensland. Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1277

Programme budgeting allows for periodic Mr. P. Wood: It is a backward step in review, which naturally produces a system education. of control over the activities and the administration involved. It occurs both in Mr. WRIGHT: There is another descrip­ relation to the outputs-that is, the results tion. I have heard some Government mem­ that are being achieved-and the inputs, or bers describe it as an "enlightened" Budget. the resources being consumed. We could I might also add that it is a "sectional" gain tremendously here in that we would Budget. have the chance of reviewing and checking Mr. P. Wood: It's "Chalk's last" Budget. out the costing that we originally set up. We would have the opportunity to check Mr. WRIGHT: I take that interjection; out the objectives. We could ask ourselves, it is the Treasurer's "last" Budget. "Are we achieving them? Are we main­ taining our original programme?" The Mr. R. E. Moore: You threw the challenge beauty of this is that it can be done on out, and if it is accepted it will be on a periodic basis, so that we could come your heads. back and say, "We think now that we are Mr. WRIGHT: I think it will be a very wrong", and we could change. I do not interesting challenge. see how that can possibly be done under the present system. Because it cannot be I have said that the Budget could gener­ done, extensions to schools are constructed ally be described as "sectional". From my when they are not needed, fences are erected point of view as a Central Queenslander I when schools are closing down, and libraries find it is pro metropolitan and pro South­ are built when schools are closing down. east Queensland. For example, in the expenditure that will be incurred on hospitals, As I have said, the Co-ordinator-General's as set out on page 15 of the Financial State­ Department has demonstrated the advantages ment, we see that $1,230,000 is to be pro­ of long-term planning and the co-ordination vided for a new multi-storey block at the of regional resources. This could easily Southport Hospital, estimated to cost and readily be extended to other areas of $9,350,000. We see that $1,000,000 has administration. I state these advantages, been allocated for a new casualty and out­ and ask honourable members to consider patient department at the Royal Brisbane them carefully. Hospital towards a total estimated cost of Programme budgeting clearly sets out what $21,500,000. Again, $.500,000 has been the objectives or the goals are. We admit allocated for an outpatient department at that this is done, anyway, because the depart­ the Chermside Hospital, which is estimated ments are supposed to say what their objec­ to cost $2,154,000. In the hospital area tives and goals are. But the budgetary the Budget is certainly pro South-east system that I am talking about also lists the Queensland. alternative objectives and methods. It allows Returning to a somewhat parochial attitude, for close scrutiny because it caters for I refer to the specital assistance given to periodic review. It allows for long-term local government. I was very pleased to planning and, above all, from our point of hear the Treasurer announce that $35,000 to view it allows for more thorough evaluation $42 000 was to be given to the Rockhampton by this Legislature of the State's administra­ Cit~ Council. I realise that this amount is tion. And surely this is part of our respons­ being granted because the Rockhampton and ibility. Bcisbane City Councils are the only two councils with their own bus runs ru1d this It may be that we cannot simply say we sum will help with school and pension con­ will change overnight, because I am aware cessions. But thaJt is all Rockhampton is that programme budgeting can be costly. getting although its needs are rather great. But there is no reason why we cannot make On the other hand, Brisbane is getting it a long-term project, so I suggest that $750,000 to $900,000. Again the Budget is now is the time to start. certainly pro metropolitan area. Unfortunately the information given to Mr. Chinchen: That is where most of the members is restricted and limited. Even people are. Isn't that very clear? so, the information is open to constructive criticism. I spent a considerable amount Mr. WRIGHT: I am not quite sure that of time examining the Treasurer's Financial that is the main criterion to debate a Budget Statement and I have listened to previous on. If we are really interested in the needs speakers. They have tried to coin phrases of the community, we should look at the to describe the Budget. It has been described total community. We talk about decentralisa­ by some as a "pre-election carrot", by others tion and developing the State: let us not con­ as a "stay-as-you-were programme", by centrate entierly on Brisbane; let us spread another honourable member as a "don't our wings a little. rock the boat" Budget. I would add to A Government Member interjected. that and describe it as a "don't rock the political boat" Budget, because it appears Mr. WRIGHr: I heard Government mem­ that we may have an election in about bers say that Queensland is the most decen­ ~even weeks' time. tralised State in the Commonwealth. I should 42 1278 Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) hate to see what would happen if all the new jurors. It would be an interesting exercise mining towns that mushroomed in the last if some honourable members were to come few years were suddenly wiped off the to Rockhampton when a jury was to be map. If that were to happen Queensland selected. They would find 30 or 40 people certainly would not be so decentralised. If milling around outside the court-house. There we trace the movement in population statis­ are no parking facilities for their cars andl tics and note what has happened to the no accommodation for them while they are provincial cities and smaller towns, we realise wmtmg. Finally they make their way up that no strong action has been taken by the a very dark staircase at the side of the Government towards decentralisation. building. Those are the entnance facilities to our marvellous court-house! Mr. Chinchen: The Commonwealth wants We should examine expenditure closely to get rid of all the mining towns. Why do when the Government skites about what it is you want to do that? doing for the people of the State. Let us look at areas outside Brisbane. Judges in Mr. WRIGHT: No-one is talking about Rockhampton experience great difficulty in wiping them out. I am using that only as working in their chambers and in having an example. parties attend at their chambers to consider If we acknowledge what has happened, matters. The chambers are too small and we realise that there has been no decentralisa­ have few facilities. tion plan in the last few years. No-one The people of Rockhampton are fed up can tell me that the Government planned with nothing but promises. I guarantee that the mining towns. The mining organisations when the next election gets going the Minister and investment groups wanted the mining for Justice will come to Ro'Ckhampton again towns and their infra~tructure. That is how and say (as he has on two other occasions), they grew there. I do not knock what has "Yes, we will give you a new court-house." happened; it has helped Central Queensland, It is already recorded in this Parliament but it certainly has not been as a result of by way of an answer to a question that State planning. that court-house has not been forthcoming. We are sick of promises. We are fed up Central Queensland is the main boom min­ with them because they have been totally ing area, and we rure supposed to be thankful empty. They have never been met. It i' for that. We are also supposed to be thankful time this Government started to do some­ for the continuing expenditure of $60,000,000 thing. It is time it started giving proper on the Gladstone Power House. It is contin­ and urgent priority to a plan of decentralisa­ uing expenditure because when a project is tion. accepted we simply do not stop it overnight and cease spending on ~t. That is not some­ I notice, as I mentioned before, the thing marvellous. development that is taking place in the hospitals. Again I fly my own flag-whal I am pleased about the move to upgrade about Rockhampton? the railway lines in the area, but this again is not taking place because of a desire to Mr. Lee: The parish pump. help Central Queensland. It is to help the Mr. WRIGHT: Yes, the parish pump, bul coal-mining industry in the area, but natur­ I have already made by constructive con­ ally we will benefit. tribution on the Budget. I think the Government has overlooked Mr. B. Wood: He never talks. some of the other needs in this area and I shall be parochial on this point. In dealing Mr. WRIGHT: That is not completely with my shadow Ministry, that is, Justice, I true. He rose once and asked somebody to have been concerned for some time that close a window. Rockhampton has one of the worse court­ houses in the State. It is supposed to be The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. W­ sufficient for the District and Supreme Court D. Hewitt): Order! It would be pleasing judges, but it is badly overcrowded. It is if the honourable member returned to the hot and, because of the type of building it Budget discussion. is, it cannot be air-conditioned. Mr. WRIGHT: Returning to the Budget Mr. Chinchen: I thought you were all discussion, I recognise the increased expendi­ law-abiding up there. ture made on Rockhampton Hospital facili­ ties. I myself have been advocating them. Mr. WRIGHT: We are as law-abiding and I know that the previous member, Mr. as people elsewhere. If statistics were Pilbeam, the Liberal member for Rock· checked they would probably reveal fewer hampton, worked darned hard in advocating court cases in Rockhampton than in the hon­ the need for changes and improvements in oumble member's area. this field. I acknowledge his efforts, too. I am talking about a lack of facilities for However, there is a dire need for more people in the court-house. In this context I to be done. We have one of the worst think of officers of the court, judges and children's hospitals it would be possible Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1279 to see. My young child was a patient a Rockhampton? Surely that will not be suit­ few years ago. The ward was completely able. I am told that one of the main filthy. I know that some improvements have principles in caring for these people is been made. The Jaycees and other organisa­ to get them into their own community. tions repainted it. That is not the sort of Alternatively, are we to bring only Rock­ envin;mment one expects a young child to hampton people from Wolston Park to Rock­ expenence. There is an isolation ward in one .section, and dirty garbage cans were just hampton? It presents somewhat of a outside the door. I know conditions are dilemma. If there is something we need improving, but there is still the need for a as a specialised facility at the Rockhampton new children's ward. Base Hospital, it certainly is a special unit to treat alcoholics. Turning to the more specialised areas of medical care, I cite the psychiatric facilities. The extension of hospital services to other We have a section there, ward 5D, which parts of Rockhampton should be considered. the member for Windsor visits on a regular I have heard members on both sides of basis when he travels to Rockhampton I the Chamber refer to the development of believe. It is just shocking. There is 'no perimeter hospitals. I think that is the term other way to describe it. The nurses and that has been used about the establishment the staff have done a marvellous job of of hospitals in suburban areas. I reiterate brightening up the place by putting up what the member for Rockhampton North 0artoons and other types of funnies and has said. I would certainly like to see one drawings; but it is old, archaic and needs established in the new residential areas to be replaced. I suggest that the Government within the electorate of North Rockhampton consider establishing a psychiatric unit so that people do not have to travel long separate from the hospital, and take some distances to the Rockhampton Base Hospital. immediate action to supply the specialised Such a centre could handle minor injuries medical and hospital staff that is required. and minor operations. Post-operative care could also be catered for. These all come A separate unit is certainly necessary. within the Health portfolio and I notice r\t the moment all patients are lumped in that Central Queensland did not get much together. This is where they put the drunks of a mention when it came to that aspect. -the alcoholic fellows who have a problem. The fellow who suddenly "goes off his Talk of health brings me back to the rocker" is sent up there, too. The woman problem of "Eventide" Homes. This is a that the neighbours "dob" in goes up there problem no doubt facing a:ll commurnties. as well. They are all lumped in together. We have a growing number of people That is an illustration of the type of centre requiring accommodation. It is very difficult we have, which is commonly known as for pensioners to pay the $35 or the $25 ward 5D. minimum that is asked for houses and fiats. They enjoy increased pensions, thanks to On the subject of alcoholics, the Health Department has put forward a proposal to the Commonwealth Government. They also >et up a residence to assist persons who receive a special rent allowance. But it is have been treated for their alcoholic troubles. still very difficult for them to care for The community as a whole is very concerned themselves and meet their requirements. So about this. The idea is that people who there are increased applications for accom­ have had treatment and are almost ready modaton at "Eventide" Homes. However, to return to the community are admitted there have been no major ex·tensions in that to a centre of this description. I visited one area. The Minister for Health must look ln Brisbane recently with the Director of at this matter. Psychiatric Services and I was most impressed. He must realise that we have almost However, I believe that these centres are reached the point of no return at the :mccessful only if the initial care facilities "Eventide" Home, Rockhampton. There is are available for alcoholics. In Rockhampton we do not have them. I can understand very little space. We could start putting the concern of the people in that area. more buildings up there but I am not sure H could be, as one woman said at a recent that this would be in the interests of the meeting, that alcoholics will be collected people who live there already because ·the from under the Fitzroy Bridge and shoved place is rather crowded. If we are to con­ in the home. I am sure that neither Dr. sider recreational facil.i:ties for .these people, Urquhart nor Dr. Wilson who is in charge we will need the extm land that is there. of the local community h~alth centre, would I suggest that some consideration be given allo~ such a thing. But it is certainly to the esotablishment of a new "Eventide" possible, because we do not have the initial Home in another part of Rockhampton. care facilities that are required to treat these people. Again, as the honourable member for Rock­ hampton North said, it should be in his Is it that we will bring people from electorate because there is a real need there Wolston Park or some other care centres for this type of accommodation for old and let them finish off their treatment in people. 1280 Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement)

I mention recreation because, to my mind, He asks some major questions on how we it is important. It concerns me tremendously. can effectively use this time, then continues- It concerns me that scant acknowledgement "Schools will need to give more atten­ was given in the Budget to the needs of tion to sport, enjoying the arts, hobbies recreation. I have heard members of the Australian Labor Party in committee talk and crafts. about the growing importance of recreation "•Perhaps the community college also and leisure time. I am somewhaJt concerned will become the leisure centre of the at the static approach adopted by this community, where rtraditional barriers Government to recreation generally, and between work and relaxation will blur into specifically to the National Fitness Organisa­ a wider attention to life-srty le. tion. "There will be other changes ahead for Mr. Ahem: You are on that council? education. "Mr. Berkeley says the 'ritual of school­ Mr. WRIGHT: Yes, I am. ing' in the past has been confined to a full•time period of childhood and Mr. Ahem: And you can't fix that up? adolescence. Mr. WRIGHT: I don't think so, because, "This period has grown longer and like all other departments, subdepartments today the law says children must go to and quasi-departments, the National Fitness school from five years of age to 15." Council simply asks for money and if the Treasurer wrll not give it, the council cannot He also say&- do much about it. But surely .this should "But many trends in society today are have been given a priority. There is a real making this idea of school inadequate . . . need throughout Queensland--as I am sure A first step might be to abolish daily country members will agree-for female attendance and provide a more ready officers to assist male officers and for the access to formal learning right throughout appointment of a regional officer of some life." kind to take over the work of the ordinary national fitness officer when he must go Those are very valid points made by Mr. away for spedal training or travel through­ Berkeley. out his region. I think the most important point that he There is a need for specialised sports makes in the other part of his article is and recreational officers. We have some that the responsibility lies with the Govern­ marvellous men in the N at:ional Fitness ment, and more so with education authorities. Organisation. They come from a:l:l walks of This is where the role is; this is where life and carry out their role tremendously the job has to be done. We need to well. It is commendable how they work for educate our young people in the best use their low salaries. We should come back of their present leisure time and the extra to the realisation that we need specialised recreational periods 'that will confront them. sports and recreational people in these fields. This could be tied in with the local It has been stated in articles that 1 have authodties. read previously that people develop their recreational att~tudes before the age of 12.. We have to take cognis.ance of the gmwing We certainly haven't much time; in fact, problems facing society and of the increasing it is even now too late if we wait till a amount of leisure time available to people. student reaches high school before encourag­ Today I read in the "Telegraph"-and no ing him to engage in recreational pursuits. doubt other honourable members read it­ an article on page 8 headed "Violence: A Mr. R. E. Moore: Have you ever thought real risk in an age of greater leisure." It about work? What about a bit of work reads- instead of all this leisure? " Mr. George F. Berkeley, director of Mr. WRIGHT: That interjection shows Special Education Services for Queensland, how rigid the honourable member is in his says the 21st Century will bring us a lot thinking. Has he ever heard of lateral. more leisure. thinking? He ought to consider the concept. "If we cannot learn to use exces·s It is easy to remain rigid and static in ideas, leisure time more effectively, the conse­ as many Government members do. It is quence may be a developing Clockwork time that we in this Assembly started looking Orange mentality among our young ahead, because the SO's ~re not too far people. away and the problems are nght on us. "Violence, boredom and aimlessness will There is a need for educationists, engineers, be the hallmark of our cities. Gone for­ social workers and town planners to get ever will be the 19th Century dream of together to start planning for the recreational spreading culture throughout the whole and leisure needs of the people, and for the society." facilities that will be required. There is a Supply [10 OCTOBER 1974] (Financial Statement) 1281

need for trained, professional recreation Government needs ,to take· upon itself the officers, and what better instrument have we responsibility for educating people to use for this than the present system of National their spare time more effectively. Fitness throughout the State? We have already decentralised this work and we have On a parochial note, I wish to refer a golden opportunity to progress with it finally to Port Alma. Although we have because throughout the State area commit­ heard so much about decentralisation and tees are se