Part 3: Rebirth Partner
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28 HUO: Normally I ask two last questions but you already Hans-Ulrich Obrist, answered one of them when we did the talk at the Ser- Michelangelo Pistoletto pentine gallery. It was the question about the future. You said: ‘The future for me is not about the possession of the world; it is about making love with the world. It is our Part 3: Rebirth partner. If you make love with the world, you have to love humanity. If you love humanity, you love yourself.’ But the question you have not answered yet is my recurrent ques- tion about unrealized projects, projects that were too big to realize, or too small to realize. When I asked you this question for the last time, in 1996, you answered with a very empty space you wanted to insert into a city. It was a cage—you wanted an empty cage in a city. That was your as yet unrealized project. MP: I did realise it. It was exhibited, and it is called Free Space. It is free for everybody and can be everybody’s space. It was good as the work was carried out by the occupants of a prison in Milan. I said: I want to do a work with you that brings you out of the prison. But this ‘outside of prison’ was in the centre of the prison. It was a free cage for everybody, because your mind should be free. And this is the cage that opens your mind. And they understood. They were very happy to do it. At the beginning they said: We are in a cage already. Why do we have to make a cage? And I said: This is the cage of your freedom. HUO: So that project was realised. Is there something still unrealised? MP: The project that is very necessary to do is a school of democracy in the world. At the moment democracy is just a word. It is not a real thing. This school should be a laboratory of real democracy that cannot exist without this idea of one to one. I am in front of you and someone is in front of me, even if it is their back. I have to respect people in front of me and behind me. This school does not exist at the moment. This is something we should do. Kunsthaus Graz HUO: So this is very urgent. Michelangelo, thank you very Universalmuseum much. Joanneum not work without omnitheism. Because if you have the omnitheistic idea, you always have a basic concern for absolutist systems. The absolute is always there. But democracy cannot be under the absolute. HUO: Next comes Paris, the big exhibition at the Louvre. It is about December 21st, 2012, it is about the beginning of the Anno uno and it is the next step after the Terzo Para- diso. Can you tell us about it? MP: December 21st, 2012 has been predicted as the end of the world, which in itself is a highly idiotic concept, but idiotic not to the point of being in some way related to the potential meaning we are talking about. We are cur- rently in a huge crisis. Perhaps this is not the date of the end, but we are going towards the end. We are preparing, we are working for the end. And because we are working for transformation, for renovation, for reconsideration, for rebuilding the vision of the world, we said that it is important to transform this date of ‘the end’ into the day of rebirth. That is why we call it ‘Rebirth day’. ‘Rebirth day’—a uni- versal concept, a universal activity, universal participation in a new day that is a new holiday. HUO: By new holiday you mean something like Christ- mas? It would not be a religious day, but it would be recurrent and could go on forever? MP: I have always enjoyed celebrating Christmas as a feast although I have no religious feelings, because for me it is the feast of birth, of renaissance. The 21st is rebirth; it is not a religious concept, it is a social concept, to be reborn at the start. It is also a celebration that originates from long before the Christian concept of Christmas. It is the winter solstice for the northern hemisphere and the summer solstice on the southern side of the world. It was celebrated because it is the shortest day of the year—not the 24th, but the 21st, and after that the days get longer again. You start a new year. A new force is growing. 26 — 27 Serpentine show, and it had obviously to do with the reli- Part 3 Hans-Ulrich Obrist, gions presented, to quote you here: ‘The religions which Michelangelo Contents Pistoletto are presented are the monotheistic religions which won Ulrich Becker over all the other earlier religions. These earlier religions 8 Sacred Objekts did not concentrate on just one symbol. They were dis- On the Presence of the Sacred in the seminated through many different symbols. The elements Work of Michelangelo Pistoletto of nature for example were considered as separate gods. The transformation from the Roman gods to the Christian 18 Michelangelo Pistoletto and Hans god was from many to one’. And that obviously also leads Ulrich Obrist on the Urgency of to the title of your show previous to the retrospective Social Sculpture here, in Philadelphia and Rome. The title was From One to 30.09.2012, Kunsthaus Graz Many. MP: The show in London was called The Mirror of Judg- ment. The idea that each individual—that the moment— is in front of the mirror, each person is forced to judge himself or herself. But in the exhibition it was not only the individual who was in front of the mirror, but the big, important monotheistic religions with the tools they use to integrate the public into religion, like a confessional. This instrument, the Church, is in front of the mirror. When you pray, you pray to yourself, because it is you in front of yourself on the other side, you do not pray to something very distant and unknown. You should know yourself and this is the point of the judgment—to judge yourself. To take responsibility. You decide in which direc- tion you want to go. So religion is no longer a high point of reference for me but a vertical conception, a horizontal conception. The other is the rapport: each one is the other. So it is the concept of taking responsibility for the person in front of us and if I do that and everybody does that, this is the new religion, or rather it is the concept of spiritual- ity. It is a way that means not being pushed down by something way up above us. My manifesto on this rapport now is relating to omnitheism instead of monotheism. HUO: That is the manifesto you are writing at the moment? www.museum-joanneum.at/ MP: Yes. Omnitheism and Democracy. Without the concept bookoftransformation of democracy it would not work. And democracy does problems is in conflict with nature. In the centre we have to combine nature and artifact. This is the future. We are opening up this new path. HUO: When we discussed this in London we spoke about Jeremy Rifkin, the economist. He talks about the third industrial revolution and about the research that goes into creating new resources to deal with the 21st-century energy crisis. I was wondering to what extent Rifkin’s con- cept of the third industrial revolution played a role when you came up with … MP: We really should plan a one-day discussion around this table about the third industrial revolution based on Rifkin’s idea. I think this is fundamental because each one of us needs to produce energy. We can no longer just use candles or turn to the fire for warmth. We need energy. And energy comes from the sun. We can produce low-cost Kunsthaus Graz, BIX facade with Terzo Paradiso, 2012, Photo: N. Lackner/UMJ energy from the sun, but each one of us needs to take responsibility and start to create some kind of home… An individual’s house is the place where you think about the world and you organize the potential for economiz- ing energy and producing energy. The more energy you produce, the more energy can be used not only for you, but for society; to make cars move, make machinery move, to make social things move. This is the idea behind this revolution. It is related to the idea of the Internet, the concept that each person exists in a very strong way, but is related to everyone else. It is a kind of Internet transformation into the practical new system. Voilà, and the ‘Third paradise’ is not only about energy production; that is only one part of it. What it refers to is a change in mentality, as in the potential for producing a rapport of one and the other, in a spiritual way and in an economical way, in the practice of sharing. In Italian the word sharing comes from division. Divisione becomes condivisione in a social way, and means to divide with. So sharing in Italian is very clear. HUO: You said that paradise does not come from reli- gion; but religion nevertheless played a big role in the 24 — 25 religion. It was used by religion, but the word ‘paradise’ With his Terzo Paradiso, Michelangelo Pistoletto pro- Hans-Ulrich Obrist, means garden, from the old Persian word.