The Work of the National Crime Agency
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House of Commons Home Affairs Committee The work of the National Crime Agency Oral and written evidence 15 October 2013 Keith Bristow QPM, Head, National Crime Agency Ordered by The House of Commons to be printed 15 and 23 October 2013 HC 659-i Published on 6 December 2013 by authority of the House of Commons London: The Stationery Office Limited £6.00 The Home Affairs Committee The Home Affairs Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration, and policy of the Home Office and its associated public bodies. Current membership Rt Hon Keith Vaz MP (Labour, Leicester East) (Chair) Ian Austin MP (Labour, Dudley North) Nicola Blackwood MP (Conservative, Oxford West and Abingdon) James Clappison MP (Conservative, Hertsmere) Michael Ellis MP (Conservative, Northampton North) Paul Flynn MP (Labour, Newport West) Lorraine Fullbrook MP (Conservative, South Ribble) Dr Julian Huppert MP (Liberal Democrat, Cambridge) Yasmin Qureshi MP (Labour, Bolton South East) Mark Reckless MP (Conservative, Rochester and Strood) Mr David Winnick MP (Labour, Walsall North) The following Members were also members of the Committee during the Parliament. Rt Hon Alun Michael (Labour & Co-operative, Cardiff South and Penarth) Karl Turner MP (Labour, Kingston upon Hull East) Steve McCabe MP (Labour, Birmingham Selly Oak) Bridget Phillipson MP (Labour, Houghton and Sunderland South) Chris Ruane MP (Labour, Vale of Clwyd) Powers The Committee is one of the departmental select committees, the powers of which are set out in House of Commons Standing Orders, principally in SO No 152. These are available on the Internet via www.parliament.uk. Publication The Reports and evidence of the Committee are published by The Stationery Office by Order of the House. All publications of the Committee (including press notices) are on the Internet at www.parliament.uk/homeaffairscom. Committee staff The current staff of the Committee are Tom Healey (Clerk), Robert Cope (Second Clerk), Eleanor Scarnell (Committee Specialist), Andy Boyd (Senior Committee Assistant), Iwona Hankin (Committee Support Officer) and Alex Paterson (Select Committee Media Officer). Contacts All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the Home Affairs Committee, House of Commons, 7 Millbank, London SW1P 3JA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 3276; the Committee’s email address is [email protected]. List of witnesses Tuesday 15 October 2013 Page Keith Bristow QPM, Head, National Crime Agency Ev 1 List of written evidence Page 1 Keith Bristow, Director General, National Crime Agency, 18 Sept 2013 Ev 10 2 Stephen Rimmer, Chair, Serious Organised Crime Agency, 20 Sept 2013 Ev 12 3 Keith Bristow, Director General, National Crime Agency, 15 Oct 2013 Ev 13 cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [SO] Processed: [19-11-2013 14:49] Job: 034705 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/034705/034705_o001_MP HC 659-i CORRECTED TRANSCRIPT.xml Home Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 1 Oral evidence Taken before the Home Affairs Committee on Tuesday 15 October 2013 Members present: Keith Vaz (Chair) Mr James Clappison Steve McCabe Michael Ellis Mark Reckless Dr Julian Huppert Mr David Winnick ________________ Examination of Witness Witness: Keith Bristow QPM, Head, National Crime Agency, gave evidence. Q1 Chair: Could I ask everyone present to note the you by the Home Secretary and no targets as to how Register of Members’ Interests where the interests of you were to do your job. When you came before us members of this Committee are noted? Is there any on 17 January you said, “The Home Secretary has not other interest that any other member wishes to declare given me any benchmarks or targets at the moment, in respect of the witnesses today? Good. apart from to say, ‘You will absolutely protect the This is a one-off session with the Head of the NCA. public’”. That is probably the wish of every politician Could I welcome Keith Bristow? This is your third to every police officer, that they protect the public. appearance before the Select Committee, Mr Bristow. Have you now had any more detail from the Home You have now been vested. Every time you have been Secretary as to how you are to do your job or what before us, on 17 January and exactly a year ago on 16 the benchmarks are going to be? October 2012, you said you had been waiting for Keith Bristow: The Home Secretary has now set out vesting day. So you have been vested. strategic priorities, as set out in the Crime and Courts Keith Bristow: We have, Chairman. I am very pleased Act. I have set some operational priorities in response that we are up and running. to those, and I am now clear about the four key performance questions that will be used to test that Q2 Chair: Excellent. By way of how this Committee performance. wishes to monitor and scrutinise your work and the work of the NCA—because obviously this is the Q5 Chair: Which are? relevant committee of Parliament—in August this Keith Bristow: Key performance questions are about year I wrote to you with a number of questions our understanding of threats from serious organised concerning the way in which the NCA operates and crime, the effect that the NCA is having on the threats, which are the missing parts of the old landscape of how well the partnership with police and law policing. You wrote back to me last week with a enforcement is working and how well we are using number of paragraphs with some of the information. I public resources. spoke to you at the end of last week to ask you to reformat your reply. In future, when the Committee Q6 Chair: All those are very useful but they are not writes to you with a list of questions, it would be very specific targets, they are general aspirations. One of helpful if you would answer the questions that have the reasons why SOCA was not as successful as been sent to you because we wish to monitor this people would have liked, is the fact that, when organisation from the start. Do you understand that? reporting back to Parliament and to the public, there Keith Bristow: The intention was to be helpful, was no recognition of meeting certain criteria. You Chairman. If it was not helpful we have corrected our told the public on 8 October that the estimated amount response and hopefully you will find that more of social and economic crime is £24 billion a year, helpful. that there are 37,000 criminals linked to 5,500 gangs and that your job is to disrupt the way in which these Q3 Chair: Excellent. When do you think I can expect gangs and criminals operate. That is right, is it? the response? Keith Bristow: Our job is to ensure that, with the Keith Bristow: My understanding is you have had whole of law enforcement, we understand the nature that, Chairman. of the threat from individuals and groups and that they receive the right prioritised law enforcement response. Q4 Chair: As of today we have not. It would be very Our response will be to continuously disrupt those helpful if you could do that for the future. This is people, including taking their assets off them and something we did not do with SOCA and it is a regret including bringing them to justice wherever that is of the Committee that we did not follow things possible. through. So that would be very helpful. Thank you very much for that response. Q7 Chair: In respect of the numbers of criminals, Let us turn to what you said to us on the last occasion. when we come back in a year’s time, because we are You told us that there were no benchmarks given to not going to see you every week, and we say to you, cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [E] Processed: [19-11-2013 14:49] Job: 034705 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/034705/034705_o001_MP HC 659-i CORRECTED TRANSCRIPT.xml Ev 2 Home Affairs Committee: Evidence 15 October 2013 Keith Bristow QPM Mr Bristow, “Have you done better than SOCA who flak jackets, with “NCA” written on them, did not manage to ever seize as much assets as is their surrounding houses in Manchester. This morning 300 budget?”—I think they had £500,000 in their budget, of your officers you have tasked from Cambridgeshire you have about £428 million in yours—what are you and Norfolk, have been out trying to arrest people. I going to say to us? think you have arrested nine people. On both Keith Bristow: I think there are some dangers in occasions this was widely covered in the media. Is it starting to focus on the organised crime group map. I your intention when you do these raids, as a matter of am not absolutely clear about whether having fewer course, to show that you are visible and out there? criminals on the map equals success or more criminals One of the criticisms of SOCA was we did not know on the map, because it is a function of our what they were up to. The media are going to be understanding of the threat. What I am clear about is I invited each time you have one of these massive raids, need to improve the alignment of the law enforcement and all your officers are going to be walking around response, so the most dangerous, the most capable, in flak jackets with “NCA” on them? the most intent groups are the subject of the most Mr Winnick: That reminds me of J Edgar Hoover, comprehensive law enforcement response.