01370165 E1/478.1 ŪĮйŬď₧şŪ˝˝ņįО ď ďij Њ ⅜₤Ĝ ŪĮйņΉ˝℮Ūij GgÁCMnMuCRmHvisamBaØkñúgtulakarkm<úCa Kingdom of Cambodia Nation Religion King Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia Royaume du Cambodge Chambres Extraordinaires au sein des Tribunaux Cambodgiens Nation Religion Roi Β₣ĄеĕНеð ĄŪņй⅜ŵřеĠР₣ Trial Chamber Chambre de première instance TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL PROCEEDINGS PUBLIC Case File Nº 002/19-09-2007-ECCC/TC 21 September 2016 Trial Day 459 Before the Judges: YA Sokhan, Presiding The Accused: NUON Chea Claudia FENZ KHIEU Samphan Jean-Marc LAVERGNE THOU Mony YOU Ottara Lawyers for the Accused: Martin KAROPKIN (Reserve) Victor KOPPE NIL Nonn (Absent) LIV Sovanna SON Arun Anta GUISSE Trial Chamber Greffiers/Legal Officers: KONG Sam Onn CHEA Sivhoang Roger PHILLIPS Lawyers for the Civil Parties: For the Office of the Co-Prosecutors: Marie GUIRAUD Dale LYSAK LOR Chunthy SONG Chorvoin PICH Ang VEN Pov For Court Management Section: UCH Arun 01370166 E1/478.1 Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia Trial Chamber – Trial Day 459 Case No. 002/19-09-2007-ECCC/TC 21 September 2016 I N D E X Mr. SEM Om (2-TCW-1031) Questioning by Mr. LYSAK .............................................................................................................. page 5 Questioning by Mr. PICH Ang ........................................................................................................ page 27 Questioning by Ms. GUISSE .......................................................................................................... page 38 2-TCW-1036 Questioning by The President (YA Sokhan) .................................................................................. page 54 Questioning by Mr. KOPPE ........................................................................................................... page 57 Questioning by Mr. LYSAK .......................................................................................................... page 101 Page i 01370167 E1/478.1 Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia Trial Chamber – Trial Day 459 Case No. 002/19-09-2007-ECCC/TC 21 September 2016 List of Speakers: Language used unless specified otherwise in the transcript Speaker Language 2-TCW-1036 Khmer Judge FENZ English The GREFFIER Khmer Ms. GUIRAUD French Ms. GUISSE French Mr. KONG Sam Onn Khmer Mr. KOPPE English Judge LAVERGNE French Mr. LIV Sovanna Khmer Mr. LYSAK English Mr. PICH Ang Khmer Mr. SEM Om (2-TCW-1031) Khmer The President (YA Sokhan) Khmer Page ii 01370168 E1/478.1 Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia Trial Chamber – Trial Day 459 Case No. 002/19-09-2007-ECCC/TC 21 September 2016 1 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 (Court opens at 0900H) 3 MR. PRESIDENT: 4 Please be seated. The Court is now in session. 5 Today, the Chamber continues to hear the remaining testimony of 6 witness Sem Om and begin hearing testimony of another witness, 7 that is, 2-TCW-1036, in relation to Internal Purges. 8 Ms. Chea Sivhoang, please report the attendance of the parties 9 and other individuals to today's proceedings. 10 [09.01.18] 11 THE GREFFIER: 12 Mr. President, for today's proceedings, all parties to this case 13 are present. 14 Mr. Nuon Chea is present in the holding cell downstairs. He has 15 waived his right to be present in the courtroom. The waiver has 16 been delivered to the greffier. 17 The witness -- the witness who is to conclude his testimony 18 today, Mr. Sem Om, is ready to be called by the Chamber. 19 And the upcoming witness, that is, 2-TCW-1036, confirms that to 20 his best knowledge, he has no relationship, by blood or by law, 21 to any of the two accused, that is, Nuon Chea and Khieu Samphan, 22 or to any of the civil parties admitted in this case. The witness 23 will take an oath before the Iron Club Statue this morning. 24 [09.02.18] 25 MR. PRESIDENT: Corrected transcript: Text occurring between less than (<) and greater than (>) signs has been corrected to ensure consistency among the three language versions of the transcript. The corrections are based on the audio recordings in the source language and may differ from verbatim interpretation in the relay and target languages. Page 1 01370169 E1/478.1 Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia Trial Chamber – Trial Day 459 Case No. 002/19-09-2007-ECCC/TC 21 September 2016 2 1 Thank you, Ms. Chea Sivhoang. The Chamber now decides on the 2 request by Nuon Chea. 3 The Chamber has received a waiver from Nuon Chea, dated 21st 4 September 2016, which states that, due to his health, that is, 5 headache, back pain, he cannot sit or concentrate for long. And 6 in order to effectively participate in future hearings, he 7 requests to waive his right to be present at the 21st September 8 2016 hearing. 9 He advises that his counsel advised him about the consequence of 10 this waiver, that in no way it can be construed as a waiver of 11 his rights to be tried fairly or to challenge evidence presented 12 to or admitted by this Court at any time during this trial. 13 [09.03.11] 14 Having seen the medical report of Nuon Chea by the duty doctor 15 for the accused at ECCC, dated 21st September 2016, which notes 16 that Nuon Chea has a chronic back pain and it becomes severe when 17 he sits for long and recommends that the Chamber shall grant him 18 his request so that he can follow the proceedings remotely from 19 the holding cell downstairs. 20 Based on the above information and pursuant to Rule 81.5 of the 21 ECCC Internal Rules, the Chamber grants Nuon Chea his request to 22 follow today's proceedings remotely from the holding cell 23 downstairs via an audio-visual means. 24 The Chamber instructs the AV Unit personnel to link the 25 proceedings to the room downstairs so that Nuon Chea can follow. Corrected transcript: Text occurring between less than (<) and greater than (>) signs has been corrected to ensure consistency among the three language versions of the transcript. The corrections are based on the audio recordings in the source language and may differ from verbatim interpretation in the relay and target languages. Page 2 01370170 E1/478.1 Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia Trial Chamber – Trial Day 459 Case No. 002/19-09-2007-ECCC/TC 21 September 2016 3 1 That applies for the whole day. 2 And before I hand the floor to the Co-Prosecutors to continue 3 putting further questions to the witness, the Chamber intends to 4 hear oral responses to the request by the defence team for Nuon 5 Chea pursuant to Rule 87.4, that is, to admit two written 6 statements of witness 2-TCW-1036, who is going to testify today. 7 In the afternoon of the 20 September 2016, the defence team for 8 Nuon Chea sent an email requesting to make an oral submission on 9 this request, and for that reason, first the Chamber wishes to 10 hand the floor to Nuon Chea defence to reiterate their request. 11 Please make it brief. 12 [09.05.14] 13 MR. KOPPE: 14 Yes, I will. Thank you, Mr. President. Good morning, Your Honours 15 and counsel. 16 It is about two additional WRIs provided by the upcoming witness 17 to the International Co-Investigating Judge. They are numbered 18 F2/4/23.2.2 and F2/4/23.2.1. And in accordance with the practice 19 that we formally have to request the admittance, we here by do 20 so. 21 In the light of the fact that these are two statements in 22 addition to an already admitted statement, we believe that it is 23 important that both WRIs will be admitted into evidence. 24 Thank you. 25 MR. PRESIDENT: Corrected transcript: Text occurring between less than (<) and greater than (>) signs has been corrected to ensure consistency among the three language versions of the transcript. The corrections are based on the audio recordings in the source language and may differ from verbatim interpretation in the relay and target languages. Page 3 01370171 E1/478.1 Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia Trial Chamber – Trial Day 459 Case No. 002/19-09-2007-ECCC/TC 21 September 2016 4 1 Thank you, counsel for Nuon Chea. 2 And I now hand the floor to the Co-Prosecutor to respond to the 3 request, and please make it brief. 4 [09.06.25] 5 MR. LYSAK: 6 I can be very brief. We have no objection, and agree these 7 records should be admitted. 8 MR. PRESIDENT: 9 Thank you. 10 And Lead Co-Lawyer for civil parties, you have the floor if you 11 wish to respond to that request. 12 MS. GUIRAUD: 13 Thank you, Mr. President. No objection. 14 MR. PRESIDENT: 15 Thank you. 16 And counsel for Khieu Samphan, you have the floor. 17 [09.06.54] 18 MS. GUISSE: 19 Thank you, Mr. President. Good morning. 20 Obviously, there is no objection from the defence for Khieu 21 Samphan. 22 MR. PRESIDENT: 23 Thank you, Counsel. 24 And the Chamber thanks the parties for your observations and 25 responses, and we will use them as basis for our decision, which Corrected transcript: Text occurring between less than (<) and greater than (>) signs has been corrected to ensure consistency among the three language versions of the transcript. The corrections are based on the audio recordings in the source language and may differ from verbatim interpretation in the relay and target languages. Page 4 01370172 E1/478.1 Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia Trial Chamber – Trial Day 459 Case No. 002/19-09-2007-ECCC/TC 21 September 2016 5 1 will be issued in due course. 2 Court officer, please usher Mr. Sem Om into the courtroom. 3 (Witness enters the courtroom) 4 [09.08.25] 5 MR.