Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 10 NOVEMBER 1981

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Pa^„ 10 November 1981 3259

TUESDAY, 10 NOVEMBER 1981

Mr SPEAKER (Hon. S. J. MuUer, Ftassifem) read prayers and took the chair at 11 a.m. , .

ASSENT TO BILLS Assent to the following BUls reported by Mr Speaker:— Jury Act Amendment Bill (No. 2); Cultural Centre Trast Act Amendment Bill; Sewerage and Water Supply Act Amendment BiU.

PAPERS The following papers were laid on the table, and ordered to be printed:— Reports— Calms Harbour Board for the year ended 30 June 1981 Operations of the Agricultural Bank for the year ended 30 June 1981 Department of Primary Industries for the year ended 30 June 1981 Commissioner for Railways for the year ended 30 June 1981 The following papers were laid on the table:— Proclamation under the Forestry Act 1959-1981 Orders in Council under— Co-operative Housing Societies Ad 1958-1974 Supreme Court Act 1921-1979 Co-operative and Other Societies Act 1967-1978 The City of Act 1924-1980 City of Brisbane (Flood Mitigation Works Approval) Act 1952-1974 Farm Water Supplies Assistance Act 1958-1979 and the Local Bodies' Loans Guarantee Act 1923-1979 Irrigation Act 1922-1979 and the Local Bodies' Loans Guarantee Act 1923-1979 River Improvement Trast Ad 1940-1977 Harbours Act 1955-1980 Explosives Ad 1952-1981 Electricity Act 1976-1980 City of Brisbane Market Act 1960-1978 and the Local Bodies' Loans Guarantee Act 1923-1979 Milk Supply Act 1977-1981 Sdl Conservation Act 1965-1980 Stock Act 1915-1979 Queensland Film Industry Development Act 1977-1979 Forestry Act 1959-1981 Stock Routes and Rural Lands Protection Act 1944-1978 Regulations under— Local Govemment Act 1936-1981 National Trust of Queensland Act 1963-1981 Irrigation Act 1922-1979 Co-operative Housing Societies Act 1958-1974 Petroleum Act 1923-1981 Eledricity Act 1976-1980 Agricultural Standards Act 1952-1981 Stock Ad 1915-1979 Wine Industry Act 1974-1978 3260 10 November 19;? 1 Ministerial Statenients

By-law under the Water Act 1926-1981 I Rules under the Coal Mining Act 1925-1979 Balance sheet of the Trastees Executors and Agency Company Limited for the year ended 30 June 1981 Reports- Sugar Experiment Stations Board for the year ended 30 June 1981 Perpetual Trastees Limited for the year ended 30 June 1981

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Delegation of Authority; Minister for Health Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah—Premier) (11.3 a.m.): I deshe to inform the House that His Excellency the Governor, by virtue of the provisions of the Officials in Parliament Act 1896-1975, authorised and empowered the Honourable Llewellyn Roy Edwards, MB, BS, MLA, Deputy Premier and Treasurer, to perform and exerdse aU or any of the duties, powers and authorities imposed or conferred upon the Minister for Health by any Act, rule, practice or ordinance, on and from 10 November 1981, and until the return to Queensland of the Honourable Brian Douglas Austin, DipCE, MIEAust, MLA. I lay upon the table of the House a copy of the Queensland Govemment Gazette of 7 November 1981 notifying this arrangement. Whereupon the honourable gentleman laid the Queensland Government Gazette on the table.

Grounding of "Anro Asia" Hon. V, J. BIRD (Burdekin—Minister for Northern Development and Maritime Services) (11.9 a.m.): The grounding of the "Anro Asia", which occurred shortly after the adjournment of the House for the recent recess, has been a major iriciddit in the history of maritime activities in this State and it is appropriate that for the benefit of honourable members I should recount some of the steps taken in relation to the grpunding. The "Anro Asia" grounded in clear weather at approximately 7.30 p.m. on 29 October, at the northern tip of Bribie Island. The cause of the grounding will be the subject of a proper marine inquiry and it is not appropriate that I should make any comment on this aspect other than to say that the vessel failed to round a buoy just south of the Caloundra headland and grounded under power on a rock shelf just off the beach. In the initial impact, seven storage tanks on the vessel were ruptured. Four of them were ballast tanks and the other three were oU fuel storage tanks. In the initial stages, it was not clear precisely what underwater damage had occurred, but it was quickly established that 1 157 tonnes of fuel oil and 233 tonnes of diesel fuel were aboard the vessel. The question of possible oU pollution therefore became a major consideration, particularly as oil was already escaping Into the sea. The standing procedures for the combating of oil poUution were therefore swung into effect. Under these arrangements the Department of Harbours and Marine maintains a vikoma boom which is capable of containing oU in the water under reasonably smooth conditions. The standing arrangements with the Commonwealth Govemment under what is known as the National Plan for the Combating of Oil Pollution are that further equipment held in other Australia ports may be moved to crisis points as required. The boom held by my department reached the site at approximately 10 a.m. on Friday, 30 October, and was placed in a position where it would prevent the entry of oil into Pumicestone Passage, where it was considered the oil would do the greater damage to small craft and fish and bird life than it would if kept in the open sea. During Friday, 30 October, officers of the Department of Harbours and Marine had discussions with the agents for the owners of the vessel and indicated that a high priority would be given to oil pollution aspects and that early steps should be taken to pump remaining fuel oil from the vessel. It was considered that the diesel fuel could be left on Ministerial Statements 16 November 1981 3261 board as it would be needed for manoeuvring the vessel when it was rdloated, bearing, also in mind that such fuel would quickly evaporate if spUled into the sea and would cause Uttle damage. Durinjg Saturday, 31 October, the owners of the vessel negotiated with salvage contractors for the salvage of the vessel. In due course a salvage contract was let and the salvage consortium proceeded to take steps to acquire vessels and equipment needed for the salvage operation. These negotiations proceeded during Sunday, I November, and on Sunday eve^jing a conference was held between the owners' agents, the salvage operators, the insurers pf the vessel, in respect of oU pollution aspects, and officers of my department and the Port of Brisbane Authority to discuss the proposals for the salvage of the vessel and the steps which should be taken in respect of the possible oil pollution problem. Unfortunately, during 1 November, unfavourable weather conditions had caused the first vikoma boom to sink and the vessel used for the storage of the boom was subsequently smashed by rough seas. In the meantime, another boom had been flown up from and placed in position. Although at that point of time the escape of oil from the vessel was limited to the amount squeezed out of the tanks as the vessel settled onto the beach, fears were held that, if the rough conditions continued, the vessel may break up and cause a major spill. It was again stressed to the salvors that priority should be given to getting the remaining fuel oil off the vessel. Unfortunately, the obtaining of a fuel-carrying barge was a major difficulty for the salvors. By Sunday evening a barge with a capacity of about 500-800 tonnes had been obtained, but this was primarily required to move, to the site, ground tackle to be used in stabilising the vessel. It was necessary for the barge to be held for the loading of this equipment and then dispatched to Caloundra. Difficulty in pumping the fuel oil from the vessel to the barge was also foreseen, an average pumping rate of about 10 tonnes per hour being predicted. The salvage operators had made arrangements for a small tanker to be brought to the area, but the earliest this could be anticipated to reach the site was Thursday, 5 November, when it would be used to continue taking off oil in excess of the carrying capacity of the barge. From the discussions with the parties involved, my department was satisfied that the utmost was being done to avoid an oil pollution problem, bearing in mind the major priority of saving the vessel itself from destruction which, if it occurred before the fuel was pumped off, would inevitably involve a major oil spillage. Unfortunately, adverse weather conditions continued during the following day, causing the beaching of the second boom brought into position on the Sunday. However, additional equipment brought from Victoria had been placed in readiness on the shores of Pumicestone Passage so that any oil entering the passage could be recovered. Arrangements were also made for a troil boom to be dispatched from Adelaide, primarily to have such boom in position when the vessel was refloated in case the refloating operation caused further significant spUlage. On Tuesday, 3 November, I visited the vessel and spoke to the master. Captain Lockwood, and the marine superintendent for the owners. Captain Macgregor. The latter had been flown from Singapore to participate in the making of arrangements for the salvage of the vessel. During the next two days work continued on the temporary patching of the vessel and the removal of some of the container cargo by Chinook helicopters. Arrangements were also made for the transfer of remaining oil in the ruptured tanks to sound tanks on the vessel and it was considered, in the light of the then favourable weather conditions, that the vessd was capable of being refloated on Friday, 6 November. At approximately 2.30 p.m. on that day the vessel was safely refloated and taken in tow to the lee of Moreton Islapd where she was inspected by divers to obtain a better appreciation of the condhion of the vessel. Having carried out such inspection, h was determined that the vessel could safely be taken under tow to Fisherman Islands, where she arrived at approximately 7 a.m. on Monday, 9 November for the completion of cargo unloading. At this stage it is not clear what steps will be taken for the further repair of the vessd. This is a matter for the owners, although to accommodate her at Cairncross Dock would involve the cancellation of other bookings. Nevertheless, if the owners and their advising 3262 10 November 1981 Mmisterial: Statements surveyors consider that further repairs must be undertaken before the ship again puts to sea, it wUl be necessary to rearrange schedules at the dock to provide the necessaiy accommodation. I am aware that there has been a degree of criticism of the handling of the salvage operation but there has also been a great deal of public appreciation of the efficiency with which the exercise has been handled by all the parties mvolved. It Is indeed sad that the grounding occurred at aU. However, from the moment tt occurred, the various parties Involved worked together very efficiently as a team. The salvage operators, which included two enterprises from Fiji in consortium with the Queensland Tug Company, provided expertise drawn from the handling of similar mishaps elsewhere. Officers from the Port of Brisbane Authority and my own department, knowledgeable and trained in all aspects of oil pollution, moved swiftly to deal whh this side of the problem, and It was only because of the onset of adverse weather conditions that the effectiveness of the planned procedures was upset. The equipment held by my department and that available through the National Plan for the Combating of Oil PoUution is designed mainly for use in smooth waters. In the light of the experience at Caloundra, consideration wUl be given to the desirabiUty of obtaining other equipment for use in open waters under the national plan, but it must be borne in mind that equipment of this nature has a Umited use in the breaker zone in which the "Anro Asia" was grounded. In conditions of this nature priority has to be given to the protection of any environmentally fragile areas and to the clean-up of beaches and other land areas frequented by the public. It is just not possible to physically remove oil from the water in the breaker zone in rough conditions. However, the breakers themselves do tend to break the oil into fragments which does assist in some way to ease the threat of pollution. Although there are obviously lessons to be learnt from this incident, I see no for criticism in the handling of the arrangements on the part of all those involved. Contrary to statements which have been made In the media, the degree of co-operation between the State and the Commonwealth Govemment was exceedingly good. The Commonwealth, as well as making arrangements for the supply of equipment from other States under the national plan, sent two of Its experts to participate in the organisation of the anti-pollution manoeuvres. Advice has already been received of the avaUability of funds to cover the anti-pollution costs pending recovery from the owners of the vessel. All in all the exercise has been concluded with the loss of some 40 to 50 tonnes of the overall fuel of 1157 tonnes carried and very little In the way of pollution effects. The effect of the oU which was lost was minimised by the use of the booms, the spraying of dispersant and the natural effect of the elements including the heavy rain experienced during the period. When the episode occurred, and during the Initial stages of the salvage exercise, I was attending a conference In the Northern Territory, but I was kept fully informed by my departmental officers of the nature of the incident, the complications arising out of the oil spUlage, arid the measures takeri towards salvage and clean-up operations. I visited the vessel again yesterday at Fisherman Islands and spoke with the owners' marine superintendent. I am satisfied that there is no longer a danger to the vessel or to the environment.

Commonwealth Meat Inspectors' Strike Hon. M. J. AHERN (Landsborough—Minister for Primary Industries) (11.19 a.m.): Ih relation to the present Commonweahh meat Inspectors' strike, I wish to advise the House that my department and I have taken every possible step to maintain domestic meat inspection services to ensure that meat supplies to the Queensland public are maintained at an adequate level. State inspectors have co-operated as far as they have been able in maintaining these services. State meat Inspection services have been provided to the extent of normal State inspection staffing within abattoirs at Toowoomba, KiUarney, Kingaroy, Murgon, Ipswich, , TownsvUle, Cairns, Beaudesert and Kilcoy, in Brisbane at Oxley, Murarrie and Doboy and at near north coast abattoirs. Mmisterial Statements 10 November 1981 3263

The Cannon HIH abattoir slaughter floor Is staffed entirely by Commonwealth meat injectors. There is a long-standing agreement between the State and the Commonwealth that the State pay for five Commonwealth meat inspectors on the basis that they provide domesic meat inspedlcm services. Attempts have meen made to substitute five State mspectors for the five Commonwealth inspectors paid for by the State m order to maintain a reduced throughput at the abattoir for domestic purposes. Deqilte a direction from the State Industrial Commission for State mspectors to supervise the slaughter of cattle that are threatened whh tick fever, this has not been possible because meatworicers, under the diredion of thdr executive, refused to cross the CcMnmonwealth meat Inspectors' pickd line this morning. Given these drcumstances the Government must now consider the options that are avaUable to it. These options include, firstly, giving the statutory six months' notice to the Commonwealth of an intention to withdraw from the agreement under the 1932 Meat Inspedion Agreement Act; secondly, closure of Cannon HiU abattoir Indeflnltely; thirdly, delisting Cannon HiU as an export abattoir and maintaining it purely as a domestic works. I wlU be recommending to Cabinet that the six months' notice of the termination of the agreement with the Commonwealth be given immediately. This will result In the State's being obUged to provide State meat Inspedion services at the Cannon Hill abattoir. I wlU also consider a move to shut down the Cannon HIU abattoir Indeflnitdy during this period of six months' notice If the present dispute is not resolved within days. I am concemed that large numbers of cattle from tick-free areas of Queensland are presentiy being held at various meatworks in the ticky areas of Queensland, and that these are highly susceptible to tick fever and ran the risk of dying over the next few days. I will do everything in my power to assist operators in this situation to have these cattle killed I have been at the centre of a long debate In AustraUa on a single meat inspection service for C^eensland, and this dispute and the consequences arising therefrom confirm my very worst fears of the chaos that could occur If a single Australiawide meat inspedion service should be Introduced. Our meat supplies would be at the mercy of a single mUltant federal trade union. The current crisis has made me even more determined that the State meat lnq>ectlon service, which Is the equal of any in the world, shall be maintained.

North Queensland Timber Industry Hon. W. H. GLASSON (Gregory—Minister for Lands and Forestry) (11.23 a.m.): At the present time a certain amount of pubUcity Is bdng given to a campaign being under­ taken aimed at completely disrupting the Important North Queensland timber industiy. Once again, we see the spectacle of a small, noisy and Irresponsible minority endeavouring to force It views on the whole community by seeking to interfere with the adivities of honest, hard-working people going about thdr business and endeavouring to produce the goods and services this country needs for its continuing prosperity. I refer, of course, to the efforts being made to stop the controlled harvesting of logs from certain State forest areas In the North, mainly the Windsor Tableland. These, I might say, are areas which have been set aside ha State forests for many years for the permanent production of timber; and. Indeed, they form an essential part of the continuing raw material supply to an Industry which Is vital to this part of the State, not only economicaUy but also to provide Its building timber needs. I recently tabled In this House a statement which clearly sets out the position In regard to timber production from North Queensland rain forests and puts the situation in trae perspedive. A radical element among conservationists Is being quite unscrapulous in suggesting that this activity is threatening the very existence of our rain forests. The facts, of course, are that of a total of some 675 000 ha of rain forest In this part of the State, only about 143 000 ha, or about 20 per cent, is regarded as avaUable and suitable for logging to support the timber Industry. Furthermore, of this loggable area. 3264 ID November 1981 Pditiohs only about one-fortieth, or about 3 500 ha, would be logged in any one year and this would be dispersed over a number of small scattered operations between TownsviUe and Mareeba under the control of forestry officers. The Forestry Department has always been a most responsible organisation in it? management of the areas under its cpntrpl. In fact, the. department has practised tme conservation by adopting balanced forest management poUcies which recognise not only the needs of continuing timber production but also the many other community values which its forests can and do produce. It is indeed a credit to forestry management that so many of its areas are now being sought by people to whom conservation has only recently become a fashionable catchcry. The Government has adopted a balanced policy for the management and protection of North Queensland's rain forests, which wUl not only ensure the permanent protection of these forests for the future but also aUow a closely regulated harvest of timber from selected areas to meet community needs. Under forestry management, these logged areas wiU be protected and regenerated so that they wUl remain as rain forest capable of providing not only future crops of timber but also those other values such as water-shed protection, beauty and public recreation and enjoyment for which they are famous. I would remind those who support the preservatibriists in this campaign that they are threatening the jobs of many fellow Queenslanders directly or indirectly employed in the Queensland timber industry. The industry in North Queensland is worth an estimated $30m a year and directly employs 600 people with another 1 400 people employed indirectly in associated industries. What the conservationists will not tell you, of course, is that 104 (X)0 ha of tropical rain forests in this State have already been set aside for all time in declared national parks, and other substantial areas are presently under consideration. And, of course, they wiU not tell you that this Government, through its National Parks and WildUfe Service and Department of Forestry is adopting a most responsible attitude towards the preservation of this State's tropical rain forests for future generations. It is for these vaUd reasons that the Government wUl continue to aUow sawmUlers to log selected rain forests under the strict supervision and control pf responsible forest officers, whose main task will be to ensure the forests are not vandalised or endangered in any way.

PETITIONS

The Clerk announced the.receipt of the following petitions-

Pedestrian Underpass, Bridgewater Street, Momlngslde From Mr Burns (54 signatories) praying that the ParUament of Queensland wlU direct the Railway Department to constmct a pedestrian underpass at Bridgewater Street, Morningside.

Information Office and Ombudsman for Disabled Persons From Mr Row (19 signatories) praying that the ParUament of Queensland wUl establish an office to co-ordinate information required by the disabled and provide an ombudsman to protect their Interests and welfare.

Federal Government's Education Funding From Mr Casey (8 signatories) praying that the Parliament of Queensland wlU restore education funding to 25.6 per cent of the State Budget and endeavour to Increase the Federal Govemment's commitment to education. Petitions received. Questions upon Notice 10 November 1981 3265

QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE Questions submitted on notice by members were answered as follows:—

1 Entertainment Machines in Hotels Mr Booth asked the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General— (1) Are entertainment machines aUowed to be installed in hotels limited to a given number? (2) If so, what are the guide-lines and provisions of this limitation?

Answer:— (1 & 2) Entertainment machines may not be installed in licensed premises without the approval of the Licensing Commission. The commission requires a plan outlining the location of each machine to be submitted with the application. Flipper-type entertainment machines are limited to two only on each hotel or tavern premises. No specific limit is placed on the number of video entertainment machines which may be installed in these premises. However, the size and suitability of the premises determines the number of machines which may be approved.

2, Tenders for Huts, Inglewood Forestry Area Mr Booth asked the Minister for Lands and Forestry— Whh reference to the recent caUing of tenders for huts in the Inglewood forestry area— (1) Did the appUcation for tenders contain the proviso that the highest or any tender would not necessarily be accepted? (2) If this provision was not advertised, on what grounds was the highest tender excluded? Answer:— (1) No. (2) The highest offer has not been accepted because the Stock Routes and Rural Lands Protedion Board has indicated its desire to use the building in situ as a field research depot. It was decided not to proceed with the sale of these buUdings on the grounds that they are now again required for official use by a Government agency.

SoU conservation, Southern Darling Downs Mr Booth asked the Minister for Primary Industries— (1) Is he aware of the backlog in soU conservation work being carried out in the Southem Downs region, both in regard to planning and surveying? (2) Is it possible to have extra staff assigned to this region in an effort to overcome the backlog, in view of the serious erosion problem experienced in this area?

Answer:^ (1) Officers of the Soil Conservation Branch continuaUy monitor the level of demand for soil conservation services throughout the State. As at 31 August 1981, the number of landholder inquiries outstanding in the Southem Downs area was 87 out of a Darling Downs total of 184. the State total bemg 568. It is recognised that the five officers presently responsible for the Southern Downs area cannot service the high level of demand from landholders In that area. I am also aware that such high demands are general throughout the State. Because of this, I have recently set up a Planning Committee on Soil Conservation to advise me on ways of speeding up the solution of the State's erosion problems. Without a change in approach it would appear that the numbers of soU conservationists required may well be beyond the resources pf the Govemment to provide. 3266 10 November 1981 Questions Upon Notice

(2) The proposal to have staff temporarily moved from centre to centre has been and wiU be used when and wherever possible. For example, Darlmg Downs staff have been provided In the past year to assist In the Roma area, and there is currently an officer from Oakey assisting in the Moura area. Unfortunately, there is Ihtle scope in the short term for assignirig extra staff to the Southem Downs.

Noise from Riverfront Industries Mr McLean asked the 'Minister for Environment, Valuation and Administrative Services— With reference to an article that appeared in the "Telegraph" on 20 October in regard to a noise survey that Is being conducted by his department in conjunction whh the Harbours and Marine Department on noise levels on the Brisbane River, both from aquatic sports and industrial and commercial areas— (1) What type of survey wiU be taken on Industrial noise from riverfront industry? (2) What action will be taken against any Industrial or commercial sites that prove to be excessively noisy? (3) WiH this survey include the industrial development along Byron Street, Bulimba? (4) Will this survey include interviewing residents who live in close proximity to noisy riverfront Industries? (5) WiU complaints that have been received through his department against noisy riverfront industries be considered by this survey? (6) Will the general public be able to give evidence or statements in regard to noise problems in their area, to this survey?

Answer:— (1) The joint survey by the Division of Noise Abatement and the Department of Harbours and Marine will provide data for the future management of excessive ndse on our water-ways from aquatic sports. The survey on the Brisbane River is expected to take three months and is in response to the increasing community concern about the noise from power craft, water-ski boats and jet skis. Both the division and the depart­ ment are concerned that there should be a sensible balance between the interest of waterfront residents and the rights of boat owners to enjoy aquatic sports. The survey wiH not deal directly with waterfront commerdal and industrial noise. However, data already collected on commercial and industrial noise wiU be taken into consideration during the assessment of background noise levels. (2) The Noise Abatement Authority has the power under the Noise Abatement Act to issue a noise abatement order or licence limiting the noise level and time of operation and requiring the introduction of certain noise control measures. (3) As has been stated, no commercial or Industrial noise survey wiU be undertaken during the Brisbane River survey. However, several detailed noise surveys, which include the industrial devdopment along Byron Street, BuUmba, have been made at other times. (4) As the survey of aquatic sports is designed to provide basic noise data, it is not expected that any interviews wiU be conduded. However, I have received consid­ erable correspondence from people Uving on the riverfront and the points of view they have expressed wall be taken mto account. As a general rale in the assessment of noise complaints, only residents who have lodged a complaint are Interviewed. (5 & 6) Many members of the pubUc 'have already expressed their views on the problem of noise from aquatic sports. While noise from riverfront industries is outside this survey, I wUl be pleased to receive any further information on this problem. Questions Upon Notice 10 November 1981 3267

5. Government Helicopter Pad Mr McLean asked the Premier— With reference to the helicopter pad that was purchased by the State Government from Mr Kehh WiUiams— (1) What price did the Government pay for the pad? (2) Was the pad valued by the appropriate people before being purchased by the Government? (3) If so, what value was put on It and who did the valuation? (4) Is the pad in a neglected state of repair and, even further, was it badly built? (5) Is the pad presently being repaired and maintained at Cairncross dock yard? (6) What work Is being done on it? (7) How much wlU the maintenance and repair work cost? (8) What terms did the Government supply to Mr WUliams on purchase in regard to usage?

Answer:— (1) $17,500. (2) Subsequent to Mr WiUlams's offer to sell the helipad to the Govemment, an engineer of the Department of Harbours and Marine inspected the heUpad and reported that it was in good condition except for some corrosion, which would be corrected during maintenance operations. (3) No specffic value was placed on the heUpad but It was considered to be very good value in relation to the purohase price offered. (4) The walkway deck, 'being plywood, could preferably have been built with a heavier deck standard. Otherwise the heUpad was in good condition and adequately built. (5) Yes. Periodic maintenance is required for a facUity of this nature and the opportunity is bdng taken before delivery of the Govemment heUcopter to have such maintenance carried out. (6) The pontoon is bdng reserviced. (7) $10,000. (8) The heUcopter owned by Mr WUliams's company wUl be permitted to use the helipad subjed to the following conditions which were accepted— (a) The heUcopter may use the helipad on such occasions as are necessary but only for immediate landing and take-off; (b) The helicopter is not to remain on the pontoon for a prolonged period without the prior consent of the Government; and (c) ShoiUd the Government helicopter be parked on the pontoon the company's helicopter would seek an alternative landing area.

Apprenticeships Mr Simpson asked the Minister for Employment and Labour Relations— What qualifies an employer to be able to apprentice a person, for example, a fitter and turner Or a boiler maker?

Answer: - Every employer who is himself a tradesman or employs a tradesman is entitled to employ at least one apprentice hi the apprenticeship calling appropriate to his or his empl'pyee's trade, subject to his having the necessary plant and faciUties to adequately teach an apprentice that calling. For the purposes Of recognition of trade qualifications, the Industry and Commerce Training Commission will recognise a certificate granted under the Tradesman's Rights Regulation Act in the appropriate trade calling. That is an Act of the Commonwealth Parliament. 326f 10 November 1981 Qiiestioris Upon Notitie

7. Co-operative Operation of Fish Board Depots Mr PoweU asked the Minister for Primary Industries— (1) Is he aware that as a result of the advertisements that have appeared in the paper for the sale of Fish Board facUities some commercial fishermen are concerned that they may not be given the opportunity and time to form co-operatives to submit proposals for aquisition of Fish Board facilities? , (2) Is he also aware that there is concern that no preferefice wiU be given to fishermen as compared with development companies who may wish to demolish the existing facilities and develop the various sites for other purposes? (3) Will he clarify the attitude of the Government in this matter? Answer:— (1) I am aware of some recent comments by fishermen that they beUeve it would be difficult for them to meet the timetable estabUshed by the Queensland Fish Board in relation to the disposal of various properties. As I indicated in my statement to Parlia­ ment, the present financial difficulties of the Fish Board make it imperative that assets be realised quickly to provide a much needed injection of funds. With this in mind, the board has written to the local branches of the QCFO and to fishermen's co-operatives, where formed, asking for an indication of interest in the local board depots and for a demonstration of the fishermen's financial capacity in each case. The board wrote to the fishermen specifically to provide them with the opportunity of indicating their interest in acquiring the board's properties. The time constraints were applied so as not to delay unduly sales of the properties but to give fishermen time to indicate whether they were interested in the board's depots. The fishermen are required only to indicate their interest and to demonstrate their capacity to purchase within the times mentioned. There was never any intention that all transactions would have to be finalised within the time periods specified. With regard to Port Douglas, Caims, Innisfail, Bowen, , Rosslyn Bay and Gladstone, a minimum of two weeks was given to local fishermen groups to respond to the board's invitation. Four weeks was applied in the case of Maryborough, Tin Can Bay and Tewantin, and six weeks in the case of Wynnum. In many of these cases proposi­ tions have already been received from fishermen. Should any fishermen's group be interested in acquiring a board depot, I would urge them to indicate that intention to the bpard as soon as possible. (2 & 3) Both the board and the Government have indicated a desire for fishermen's groups to purchase certain depots wherever possible. I believe that by writmg to the fishermen on the basis I have outlined the board has aheady indicated its wish to provide fishermen with every opportunity to acquire the properties concerned. I personally would favour the fishermen taking advantage of this opportunity as I beUeve fishermen-controlled local marketing unhs wiU be very Important under the method of orderly marketing being adopted. However, because of the high level of indebtedness of the board it will be necessary to achieve realistic market values for each property. Provided commercial realities are appUed, I bdieve that the board would welcome fishermen's initiatives in regard to the realisation of its premises.

8- Firearms Mr Wright asked the Minister for Local Government, Main Roads and Police— (1) Is he aware that for the eight months to August the gun toll for Queensland had reached 73 victims, including 14 deaths? (2) Is he also aware that the firearm purchase rate per year In Australia has risen to 100 OOO, bringing the estimated number of personal firearms in the country to 2.5 miUion or almost one In she per head of population? (3) Did he receive a report as PoUce Minister from withm his owu department outlining the gun problem in this State and recommending certain restrictive adions? (4) If so, will he make that report available to interested members of this Assembly if for some reason It cannot be tabled? Questions Upon Notice .10 November 1981 3269

(5) What action has he taken or is he planning to take to reduce the gun mania that has developed in this country, and m this State especially, in relation to the purchase and ownership of firearms? (6) In view of the very real danger of Australia becommg a gun-totIng sodety like its American counterpart, where an estimated 200 mUllon guns are m private hands. Is he prepared to hiltiate legislation tightening control over firearms In Queens­ land, mcluding the stricter licensing of owners and the registration of all handguns, shotguns and rifles?

Answer:— (1 to 6) The Commissioner of Police has informed me that his department does not maintain statistics in relation to gunshot victims or the purchase of firearms in this State, other than concealable firearms. The only intemal report I have received concerning a firearm problem was in respect of certain revolving carbine rhles which can be easily converted to concealable firearms. These firearms were declared dangerous articles by Order in CouncU dated 6 August 1981. The matter of the licensing of firearms other than concealable firearms has been fully considered, and at this stage no amendments to the Firearms and Other Offensive Weapons Ad are proposed in this regard.

9. Company Investigations by Corporate Affairs Commissioner's Office Mr Wright asked the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General— (1) How many Queensland companies are (a) presently under investigation and (b) on file for investigation by the Corporate Affairs Commissioner's Office? (2) How many cases have been finaUsed since 1 January 1980, in how many cases were charges laid and in how many instances were convictions obtained? (3) How many officers are attached to the Prosecution and Investigation Section of the Corporate Affairs Commissioner's Office and what are the qualifications of the officers in question? . , (4) What co-operation is given by the Police Fraud Squad in such Investigations? (5) As many of the problems relate to unscrupulous persons who set up limited liability companies, or what are known as $2 companies, with what seems to be the official sanction of Government as many of the directors are known to have previous involvement in failed companies, will he cause to have the Law Reform Commission investigate alternatives to the $2 company concept while stiU maintaining the principle of enabUng a number of persons to pursue a singular commercial objective?

Answer:— (1) (a) 95; (b) 24. (2) Since 1 January 1980 the investigations and prosecutions division of the Office of Commissioner for Corporate Affairs has finaUsed 254 company investigations. Ten charges were laid resulting in nine convictions and one charge pending. In addition, 496 charges were laid against companies for failure to lodge annual returns. 339 of these charges were successfully prosecuted. (3) 11 officers of whom nine are qualified accountants and one is a qualified lawyer. (4) Whenever the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs has had cause to contact the Commissioner of Police to seek the assistance of the Fraud Squad, such assistance has always been forthcoming. An inspector from the Office of the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs, who is a qualified accountant, has been seconded to the Fraud Squad to provide expert assistance In accounting matters. (5) Section 374H of the Companies Act 1961-1981 aheady allows the Supreme Court, when it is satisfied as to the matters specified in the section, to make an order prohibiting a director who has had previous involvement in faUed companies within a period of seven years from acting as a director or bdng concerned in the management of any company for a period not exceeding five years. 3270 10 November 1981 Questions Upon Notice

Clause 562 of the proposed national companies legislation contains a simUar provision. The operation of this provision together with all other laws applying to companies, includhig the question of minimum nominal capital, Is under conthuious review within the context of the national companies scheme. As I have already indicateid in public statements this yeai;, my offiijeis are currently examining ways and means of further tightenmg the provisions relatmg to delinquent company directors and this may Involve a referral to the Law Reform Commission,

10. SmaU Claims Tribunal Mr Wright asked the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General- With reference to the SmaU Claims Tribunal— (1) How many cases were heard during 1980-81 and what percentage of such cases were determined in favour of the complainant? (2) In how many instances did complainants receive favourable decisions from the tribunal but were not able to get redress from the trader or retaUer mvolved? (3) What action can be taken by aggrieved consumers in such instances and what assistance is available to them from the Small Claims Tribunal, Crown Law Office or the Consumer Affairs Bureau in preparing further claims or legal action? (4) Is he satisfied with the way the tribunal is operating as far as its success in obtaining full redress for consumers is concerned and, in view of the number of unresolved cases, what does he intend to do to strengthen the Small Claims Tribunal?

Answer:—• (1) 1 144 cases were heard during 1980-81. Of these 44 per cent were determined by referees in favour of the consumer and 33 jwr cent were settied without the referee making an order. (2) No record is kept of this information. (3) When an order made by a tribunal is not satisfied by a trader, the consumer may file, without cost, a judgment in a Magistrates CPurt and then enforce the judgment in the same manner as a civil judgment given in a Magistrates Court. In some oases, where a consumer has been eligible, legal assistance has been made available by the Legal Aid Office to enforce a judgment In a Magistrates Court. (4) The Introduction of Small Claims Tribunals by this Govemment has been a great benefit to consumers. Without these tribunals no redress at all would have been avaUable in many cases. The success of the tribunal should not be judged only on the judgments which cannot be enforced. Due recognition must be given to the large number of claims which have been brought to a successful conclusion at little cost to the consumer. TTie honourable member would be aware of the difficulties in enforcing court judgments in all jurisdictions. These difficulties are appreciated and are subject to constant examination with a view to overcoming them. They are common to all the other States and the Unhed Kingdom. If the judgment debtor Is without funds or has divested himself or all assets ux>on which a warrant may be levied, no action can be taken to enforce a court judgment. The same situation prevaUs also m both the Supreme and District Courts. I have always invited any suggestions that may overcome this problem, but, to date, no solution has been forthcoming. I can only repeat that the present methods of enforcement are continually under review and if a solution is available, appropriate amendments wlU be made to the Magistrates Courts Act and Rules.

11. School Dental Clinics Mr Akers asked the Minister for Health— (1) How many primary schools in each of Divisions 1, 2 and 3 in Queensland are stUl not equipped with school dental clinics? Questions Upon Notice 10 November 1981 3271

(2) When Is It proposed to construct clmics at Bray Park, Strathpine West, Bald HiBs, Albany ffiUs and Norris Road primary schools? (3) What faculties are proposed, and what Is the timing programmed for dental clmic facilities for Samford, Mt Samson and Mt Nebo schools? (4) WiU he consider removing the "wiriner-take-aU" effect whereby children at schools without clinics are banned entirely from this exceUent program?

Answer:— (1) The number of primary schools in Queensland not equipped with school dental cUnics is as foUows— Division One .. ,. .. ., .. 32 Division Two 154 Division Three .. 215 However, many of the above schools have access to the school dental service through mobUe dental clinics. (2) It is not proposed to construct clinics at Bray Park, Strathpine West, Bald Hills, Albany HUls and Norris Road primary schools. Future extensions of school dental service facilities wiU be per medium of mobile dental clinics. (3) A mobUe dental clinic Is at present operating at Samford primary school. As an interim measure, chUdren from Mt Nebo School have been offered treatment at The (lap school dental dinic pending introduction of a mobile dental clinic to Mt Nebo. Mt Samson school wUl be visited by a mobile dental clinic early in 1982. (4) In many instances throughout the State, the school dental service is already offering treatment at established clinics to schools without their own fadUties, in some cases as an Interim measure pending the introduction of a mobile dental clinic. The extent to which the service can be spread In this manner is, however, limited by available trained staff.

12. Street-lighting Charges by SEQEB Mr Akers asked the Minister for Mines and Energy— (1) What total charges are made for street lighting by SEQEB to (a) the Brisbane City CouncU, and (b) the Pine Rivers Shire Council, and what is the charge per light In each case? (2) What were the equivalent figures for each of the last three financial years? Answer:— (1)- (a) 1981—$2,426,364.33; 1980—$1,958,423.24; 1979—$1,628,150.96. (b) 1981—$173,604.43; 1980—$159,942.71; 1979—$143,169.96. Current tariffs for public lamps have appUed from 15 June 1981 and were published in the Queensland Govemment Gazette No. 59 of 13 June 1981. The tariffs applicable from 1 July 1980 were published in the Queensland Government Gazette No. 56 of 7 June 1980. The tariffs applicable from 1 July 1979 were published in the Queensland Gtovernment Gazette No. 49 of 4 June 1979. A copy of the respective tariff schedules can be made available to the honourable member if he so desires. (2) See (1).

13. Albany C^eek High School Mr Akers asked the Minister for Education— Will he reassure the House and aUay the fears of residents of Albany Creek and Aspley districts by stating that there will definitely be both Years 8 and 9 at the Albany Creek High School in 1982 and there Is no consideration being given to changing that dedsion? 3272 10 November 1981 (Juestions Upon Notice

Answer:— My department's plan to open Albany Creek State High School on 25 January with both Year 8 and Year 9 was based on the assumption that construction of the appropriate buildings would be completed by that time. A progress report from the Department of Works provided on 9 November 1981 indicates the HkeUhood of a delay in completion of suffident accommodation for both year groups. Because it would not be educationaUy sound to commence Year 9 with insuffident facUities and because parents would be reludant to have their children enrol in Year 9 at the school in such drcumstances, it has now been dedded that enrolments in Year 8 only will be accepted in 1982.

14. Mining Companies, Mt Amos and RossviUe Areas Mr Scott asked the Minister for Mines and Energy— (1) What are the names of the three largest mining companies operatmg in the Mt Amos and RossvUle areas near Cooktown? (2) Are any of these companies required to carry out plant regeneration in mined areas under the terms of their mming tenure? (3) What other environmental conditions are set for companies mining in these areas? (4) Is he aware of any tribute mining being undertaken by these three companies and are environmental conditions imposed on mining that is carried out under tribute? (5) Are mining claims and leases in these areas surveyed and who is responsible for carrying out such surveys? : (6) Is he aware of the extensive damage being done to the environment by the mining being carried out in the Mt 'Amos and RossvUle areas, that mUlable timber is said to have been destroyed and that creeks are being polluted, particulariy by Terex Resources N/L? (7) Before additional lease areas are awarded to Terex, could an assessment be carried out to determine whether or not worthwhile amounts of tin are being recovered in the light pf local claims that the whole Terex operation Is merely a large scale, environmentally destructive tax dodge? Answer:— (I) Serem Australia Pty Ltd; Gradula Pty Ltd; Terex Resources NL. (2 & 3) Part of the mining in this area is carried out on old claim tenures which lack rehabiUtation provisions. However, all mining tenements now submitted for grant have appropriate conditions of this nature. (4) Gradula Pty Ltd conducts mining operations under a tribute agreement, and Dominion Mining and Oil NL acts as agent in carrying out these operations. All conditions attaching to a tenement apply irrespective of who undertakes the actual mining. (5) The Department of Mines Is generally responsible for carrying out surveys of mining leases. Mining claims are not usuaUy surveyed. However, with approval, the applicant or lessee of a mining lease, or the holder of a mining claim, may privately engage a consulting surveyor. One mining lease and one mining daim have recently been surveyed by a staff surveyor in this area. (6) Alleged breaches of the Mining Act in this area are presently under investigation by officers of the Department of Mines. (7) It is now standard practice for mining lease applications to be subjed to a preUminary environmental advice assessment. Where this assessment Indicates that a substantial impad will result from the operations proposed, the applicant is required to undertake an impact assessment study and to submit a report on the results thereof. Further consideration of pending applications in this area wiU await the outcome of the investigation of alleged breaches. Questions Upon Notice 10 November 1981 3273

15. Remedial Teachers, Cook Electorate Mr Scott asked the Minister for Education— (1) What schools m the Cook electorate receive vishs from remedial teachers and at what centres are these teachers based? (2) How many remedial teachers are based at these centres and how often do they visit schools in the Cook electorate? (3) Is there an additional remedial teacher to be appointed in the North-western Region and is it possible for this teacher to be based at Normanton? Answer:— (1) Within the Cook electorate, schools at Thursday Island, Bamaga, Jessica Point and Weipa North in the Northern Education Region recdve visits from remedial teachers based in Cairns, whilst schools at Karumba, Normanton and Croydon in the North­ western Education Region are served by remedial teachers based at Mt Isa. Children with special needs In Karumba, Croydon and other smaller schools throughout the State can receive assistance through my department's Isolated Children's Special Education Unit. (2) There are currently eight remedial/resource teachers based in Cairns, of whom one provides itinerant services to the Cape schools in the northern region on a twice- a-year basis. Visits by one of the three Mt Isa remedial teachers to the Karamba, Normanton and Croydon schools are arranged on request or as necessary. (3) The additional remedial teacher to be appointed to the North-western Region wUl provide an itinerant service based at Mt Isa. Services to the Gulf schools in the North-western Region will consequently be increased on a more regular basis.

). Almaden-Chillagoe Road; Burke Developmental Road Mr Scott asked the Minister for Local Govemment, Main Roads and Police— (1) Is there a permanent traffic counter InstaUed on the Chillagoe Road beyond Dimbulah? (2) If not, has it been possible to establish by means of random counts the annual average daUy traffic figure between Almaden and Chillagoe in recent years? (3) When was the AADT for this sedion of road first estabUshed, what was the inhial figure and what Is the AADT count for each of the years 1975 to 1980? (4) Has a dassification been estabUshed for the numbers of commercial vehicles versus private vehicles on this road, and what are the figures for each category in the above years? (5) What has been the annual capital works expendhure on the Burke Develop­ mental Road for each of the above years, what is the annual maintenance expenditure on this road and what is the length of the Burke Developmental Road? Answer:— (1) No. (2 & 3) Traffic counts have been carried out at Lappa Junction, about 60 km east of ChUlagoe. The annual average daily traffic figures which were recorded are— Year AADT 1973 .. .. 58 1974 .. .. 54 1976 .. .. 59 1979 .. .. 77 1981 .. .. 93 Two counts have been carried out just east of Chillagoe, with these results- Year AADT 1976 .. .. 36 ^ 1981 .. .. 51 U76fr-108 3274 10 November 1981 Questions Upon Notice

(4) It has been established that commercial vehicles represent 8 per cent of the total traffic. (5) The length of the Burke Developmental Road, which extends from Qoncurry to Dimbulah is 1054 km. Expenditures on permanent works and maintenance, including flood damage repairs, have been as follows:—

Year Permanent Works Maintenance

$ $ 1974-75 1,435,239 519,145 1975-76 1,615,233 239,275 1976-77 1,144,869 387,757 1977-78 382,595 304,111 1978-79 64,900 557,962 1979-80 567,948 528,265 1980-81 258,382 605,359

Programmed expenditure for permanent works in 1981-82 is of the order of $1,300,000.

17. Caboolture Community Health Centre Mr Frawley asked the Minister for Health— (1) Has the sister at the Community Health Centre in Caboolture resigned? (2) If so, did she leave on Friday, 30 October? (3) Is a replacement going to be appointed and, if so, when? (4) Is it proposed to close the Caboolture Community Health Centre at an early date? Answer:— (1) Yes. (2) Yes. (3) This matter is under consideration at present. (4) A total review of all community health centres is being undertaken at present due to reduced Commonwealth funding. The future of the Caboolture centre will be dependent on the outcome of the review.

18. Overseas Visits by Officers of Premier's Department Mr Frawley asked the Premier— (1) What officers of his department made overseas trips between 1 July 1979 and 30 June 1981? (2) What was the cost of each person's fares, accommodation and incidental expenses? (3) How long were they overseas and what was the nature of their business? (4) Did any wives accompany these officers? Answer:— (I to 4) I can assure the honourable member that apart from visits to Papua New Guinea and New Zealand which are subject to ministerial approval all other overseas trips by public servants, whether they be in my departments or any other Ministers' Questions Upon Notice 10 November 1981 3275

departments, are subject to the approval of Cabinet or, in certain histances, as delegated by Cabinet, the Deputy Premier pr myself. Naturally, the purpose, cost and duration of the vish Is taken Into account In every Instance. AH expenses incurred are in accordance with conditions of travel determined by the Public Service Board which must be accounted for and be subject to scrutiny by the Auditor-General and his staff. In so far as my departments are concerned, apart from postings to the London and Tokyo offices, the wives of pubUc servants do not accompany their husbands on overseas trips at Govemment expense. In view of the foregoing, I do not see that any useful purpose would be served by spending time extracting the detaUed information sought.

19. Roads, Mr Hartwig asked the Minister for Local Govemment, Main Roads and Pbllce— With reference to roads in Central Queensland— (1) What plans are in hand by his department to Improve the dangerous Emu Park- Rockhampton main road? (2) What are the latest daily vehicle counts on the following main roads (a) Rockhampton-Emu Park, (b) Rockhampton^-, (c) Bitoda-Gladstone, (d) Thangool- (Burnett-Collide Highway)' and (e) Rariries-Banana main road section? Answer:— (1) Plans and estimates are presently being prepared for ugrading of the section from Nankin Creek to the Keppel Sands turn-off. It is proposed to release this scheme so that the Livingstone Shire Council can undertake the work early In 1982. (2) Latest dally traffic figures are as follows:— Rockhampton-Emu Park—eastern end 1100; western end 1 600. Rockhampton-Yeppoon Road 3 0(K). BUoela-Gladstone—Calliope to Callide Dam turn-off 350; Callide Dam turn-off to Biloela 500. Thangool-Biloela 1200. Banana-Rannes 100.

20. Spring Hill Development Plan Mr Prest asked the Minister for Local Government. Main Roads and PoUce- Whh reference to the controUed development plan for Spring HIU, which mcludes the area bounded by Wickham Terrace, Upper Edward Street and Leichhardt Street, which wiU be excised from the plan— (1) Why is this area to be excised? (2) Do Sir Edward Lyons and Cecilia McNally, both National Party supporters, have extensive property interests in the area to be exdsed, and could this be a reason for this decision? Answer:— (1) I am advised that the area referred to by the honourable member was part of the initial study area. '' Hovyever, because of the location arid accesslbUlty of the area and the need to apply different criteria for hs development, the land In question was not Included in the current development cpntrol plan, for Spring HIU. I am advised, however, that wo^k is progressing on the preparation of, a separate development control plan for the area. (2) I have no knowledge of the property Interests of the persons referred to by the honourable member. 3276 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

21. Air Safety, Clinton Airport Mr Prest asked the Minister for Transport— With reference to Press statements that Maroochy, Gladstone and Gove lack air safety, and as I am concerned with the Ointon airport, where local pUots agree that the radio frequency Is overcrowded and they rely on the "see and be seen method"— What action wUl he take to see that the Commonwealth department provides air safety for these airports, particularly for the Clinton airport, as the Gladstone-Calliope Aerodrome Board has been concerned for some years at the situation as it now stands?

Answer:— I appreciate the honourable member's concern and I have brought this matter to the attention of the Commonwealth Minister for Transport, the Honourable Ralph Hunt, MP, for his advice as to the action being taken with respect to air safety for these airports.

QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE Authority to Prospect 2112M, Cooktown Mining District Mr CASEY: I ask the Miitister for Mines and Energy: Were the companies Oilmin NL, Transoil NL, and Petromin NL, the holders of authority to prospect 2112M in the Cooktown mining district, taking in the locality south of Iron Range in and around the Lockhart River and wholly within Aboriginal Reserves Rl, R3 and R4? Was that authority to prospect cancelled on 14 August this year, was it then replaced by another appUcation, and did the authority to prospect 2112M and the subsequent appUcation cover the areas of coastal Queensland in that locality? Have these companies applied for a mining lease over any of the areas covered by ATP 2112M and, if so, with what success, over what area and for which minerals?

Mr I. J. GIBBS: I do not think that the Leader of the Opposition would really expect me to give the correct answer off the cuff to a question such as that. It was rather ridiculous for him to ask that question without notice.: He should have had enough sense to place it on notice in the first place.

Mr CASEY: I asked the question without notice because the topic is very current. However, for the benefit of the Minister, I shall place it on notice. At 12 noon. In accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 307, the House went into Committee of Supply.

SUPPLY Resumption of Commhtee—Estimates—Ninth and Tenth Allotted Days The Chairman of Committees (Mr Miller, Ithaca) in the chair Estimates-in-Chlef, 1981-82 Justice and Attomey-Creneral Chief Office, Department of Justice Hon. S. S. DOUMANY (Kurilpa—Minister for Justice and Attorney-General) (12.1 p.m.): I move— "That $3,866,468 be granted for 'Department of Justice—Chief Office'." Since the Estimates of the Justice Department were last debated In 1978, the resources boom and the population explosion have touched upon the department's activities at least as much as, and probably more than, they have on any other department in the Government. Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3277

I propose to place before the Committee a comprehensive account of the stracture and operations of the department throughout the State, from which it wUl become readily apparent that the justice system reaches into the lives of everyone in Queensland. Thf deparment administers over 180 statutes, some of which date back to the early day» followmg separation. The hl^llght of the legal year was the compldion of the magnificent law courts. The new court complex represents a further step in the Govemment's policy of providing the best possible service to the public of this great State. Indeed, this Govemment has a proud record of achievement in taking its services to the people in a State as large and decentralised as Queensland. Since assuming the responsibiUty for the portfolio of Justice and Attomey-General I have made it my aim to see that the public and the law come closer together. I believe h is necessary for people in all walks of Ufe to have a greater understanding of the law. We as a Govemment and the legal profession as a whole must try to educate people so that thQf reaUse that the law belongs to everybody and operates for the benefit of aU people. I believe that any education program should start with the young. To that end I am examining ways and means of introducing our schoolchildren to the law. The Office of the Attomey-General, led by the Solicitor-General, provides the Govern­ ment, through its departments and other Instramentalities, with legal advice. The Justice Department, apart from the Chief Office and the Office of the Solicitor-General, comprises nine subdepartments and the courts systems. It was one of the three departments established upon separation and the extent to which it has developed since 1859 can be seen from the present stracture of the department. One of the recently created branches of Chief Office is the Management Services Branch which examines and advises cm requests for additional staff and office equipment and examines organisation and methods. It has been extremely hard pressed over the past few months with increasing requests for Its services due to the growth of the State and the resultant need to control the Increased work-load within the limit of the staffing available. The branch was Initially instrumental in the development of computer systems for the assessment of Licensing Commission fees, the registration of justices of the peace and the registration of births, deaths and marriages. More recently, the branch has assisted in the computerisation of the fines system, the change in the jury system and business name and company registrations. The branch has maintained association with the expansion of tape- recordmg of evidence in country Magistrates Courts offices. The next branch In Chief Office with which I propose to deal is the Art Unions Branch. This branch administers the Art Unions and Amusements Act, which came Into operation in August 1976. The Act attempted to reduce the paper warfare between the branch and Its clients. There Is no doubt that it has succeeded. Fees paid for permits and re^strations granted during the year ended 30 September 1981 amounted to $2,545,361, an increase of $417,902 on the previous 12 months. The foUowing permits were granted during that year— Major art uni(»is: Wngo 1982, single art unions 804, sweeps 411, multiple drawing art unions 71, art unions In a newspaper 3. Registrations effected were— Approved associations 848, billiard tables 1 168, entertainment machines 1724, commerdal amusements 1514, site approval for more than two entertainment machmes 245. Constant criticisms of the use of entertainment machines by juveniles to a tightening up in the issue of permits to conduct machines and In the supervision of premises in which the machines are operated. A continued monitoring of these activities is pursued and, in the event of breaches, apprc^riate action is taken. The Charities Section of Chief Office administers the Religious Educational and Charitable Institutions Act 1861-1967, the Collections Ad 1966-1981, the Guide Dogs Act 1972 and the Sporting Bodies' Property Holdmg Act 1975-1976. In the 12 months ended 30 September 1981, nine organisations were granted letters .patent under the Religious Educational and Charitable hstitutions Act and five organisations appUed for and were granted Idters patent changing the names of the corporate bodies. Eighteen organisations were registered as charities and the purposes of 57 organisations were sanctioned under the provisions of the Collections Act. 3278 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

So that charities and community-purpose organisations would reap a fair reward for the use Of their names in connection with appeals for support on thdr behalf by business Prganisations, amendments to the CoUedions Regulations, jwhich came into effect on l January 1980, provided for written agreement to be entered into between the charity or association and the commercial undertaking or individual. The agreement must be approved by the Minister for Justice and any advertisiiig produced in conjunction ^yith the appeal must be approved by the Under Secretjiry, The amended regulations also prpyl^e,fqr,the control of moneys collected as a result of the appeal, The Collections Act was amended this year to deal with persons allegedly coUecting for charity, to enlarge the powers conferred on Inspectors appointed under the Act and to extend such powers to members of the Police Force. Under the Trust Accounts Act, sOUcitors, conveyancers and public accountants who receive money upori trust or in terms requiring them to account for it are required to have their trust accounts audited fen: the six-mPnth periods ending 311 March arid 30 September of each year. The rejports arerequired to be forwarded to the Under Secretary, Department of Justice, and as at 30 September 1981 trust accounts for 772 solicitors and conveyancers and 58 public accountants were in exist^ice. Five solicitors were strack off the roU durmg the past 12 months, and 22 prpse,cutions were mstituted for failure to lodge, return^. The Justices of the Peace Section administers the Justices of the Peace Act and as at 30 September 1981 there were some 35 9(X) justices in this State. Lists of justices of the peace are available for perusal at Magistrates Courts offices and poUce stations throughout the State. I am examining the possibility of introducing a training scheme to assist justices in the performance of their duties. Several courses and seminars have already been held. ' The Administration Division of Chief Office Is called upon to prepare rales, regulations and Orders in CouncU under the legislation which it administers. Orders in Council are issued regularly under the provisions of the Mental Health Ad 1974-1978 concerning the withdrawal or continuation of criminal charges against mentally IH persons. I am riequired to recommend to the Govemor in Couridl, after considd-ation of all the circumstarices, whether the proceedings should continue or otherwise. ' During the year Orders in Council were issued under the Bulldirig Societies Ad 1886-1976 alterhig the rate of interest that might be paid by building societies. . A proclamation was issued under^the AngUcan Church of AustraUa Act 1977 appomting 24 August 1981 as the day on which the Anglican (phurch of Australia Act 1977 came into operation. The effect of this Ad was to change the name p,f the church throughout Australia. The scale of fees payable,to jurors involved In trials in e^xcess of 20 days was amended to enable jurors to obtain the average adult wage pn protracted, trials. An Order in Council was issued under the Liquor Act 1912-1981 authorising the payment from the trast fund established at the' Treasury of the following sums and for the purposes indicated— (a) The sum of $144,073 to the Minister for Education for the purposes of assist­ ing in an educational program to discourage intemperance; (b) The sum of $134,439 to the Minister for Health for the purposes of assisting in a health program in relation to the problem of alcoholism; and (c) The sum of $149,173 to the Mmister for Transport for the purposes of main­ taining a pubUdty program to emphasise dangers in the consumption of liqupr to users of the roads. The consolidation of the laws of the State is presently being undertaken to ensure'that up-to-date reprints of the law In pamphlet form are available to aU citizens. It'is also proposed that these pamphlets be further reprinted when any substantial amendment is made. Priority will be given to those Acts in constant use, and it-is expeded that all Acts wiU be reprinted within two years. AddhionaUy, the Standing Commhtee of Attorneys-GeriieraMs looklrig at computerised legal information retrieval systems in order that ready access may be obtained to statute and case law and other legal information. It is anticipated that speedyprogress wiU be made in this examination and that the States can reach agreement so that the legal situation throughout Australia and possibly the Unhed Kingdom can be, ascertained at the press of a button. Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3279

The provisions of the criminal injury compensation^ scheme have been reviewed and it is proposed that the maximum amount that may be aUowed to victims of crime will be raised to $20,(XX) and that the conditions under which payments'may be made to victims wiU be, streamlined. The construction and moderiiisatiPn of court'-houses is a continuing need. The Law Courts have been officially opened and the Supreme CPurt judges are in occupatiorii By the end of the year It is expected that the District Court judges wiH be in their building and the Central Courts will then be, remodeUed for occupation by all the metropblitan magistrates and some smaller subdepartments. The new court-house at Ipswich is nearing Completion and will be officially opened In early December. Planning for new court-hoUses at Southport and Beenleigh is well advanced. Every effort is made to assist the jpublic, and to that end publications depicting the more famUiar aspects of the department's administration are issued, for example. Small Debts Courts, SmaU Claims Tribunals and the Residential Tenancies Act. Booklets for the assistance of jurors and a publication on ddor-to-door collections are in the course of preparatiPn and will be issued shortly. The introduction into Queensland of legislation establishing a tribunal for the deter- mmation of disputes between lot owners and bodies corporate, and amongst lot owners, required the setting up of the Building Units and Group Titles Division of Chief Office to administer the disputes provlsl'ons of the Building Units and Group Titles Act. This was done after my predecessor and colleague, the Honourable W. D. Lickiss, had instigated inquiries iftto a similar scheme operating in New South Wales and had conducted seminars and called for public submissions. The division provides an advisory service for anybody wishing to seek its services. As at 30 September 1981, 2 438 inquiries had been received seeking advice in connection with the legislation, . with 1428 of these coining from Brisbane and 594 coming from the Gold Coast. To that date, 97 applications had been received to sdtle disputes or complaints that had arisen within a parcel: and some 75 orders had been made in relation to the disputes. .53 of the applications received for orders relate to, plans located on the Gpld Coast,., while 36 relate to, Brisbane plans. Two appeals had been received agfiinst tfie ;,prders that have ,been made so far. Two interim orders which, because of the urgency of ithe situation, are issued without major investigation, h^ye also been made. Another initiative of the departmerit has been the establishment of a Research Branch in Chief Office following recognition by the department that accurate and meaningful statistics are required as a basis for, forward planning, for evaluation of criminal justice poUcJES and for the development of new poUcies to deal with the social implications of crime. It is a matter of concem that little systematic information currently exists on the criminal justice system in general and the court system in particular. The development of a data. base of criminal'justice statistics is a major initiative planned by the departmerit Jn the forthcoming financial year. Costs associated with this iiUtiatlve,are estimated at $30,Q00 capital expendhure and an annual operating expenditure of $16,000. WhUe bUlions of^ dollars are spent annually by drovemments and private enterprise on research in the physical sciences, the expenditure for research in the field of crime and criminal justice Is so small as to. be meaningless. In view of the level of expenditure currently being incurred on law and order in this State, it would consthute false economy to dday iinplementation of the proposed data base*System merely on the basis of the moderate costs ihvolved with development of the sySteni. Implementation of a computerised data base system will entail significant dost'saving due to more efficient manpower and other resource planning within the Queerisland court system which h is felt wiU more than compensate for current development costs. Po'ioWmg the passing of thb Associations Incorporation BiU h' wiU be necessary to establish'a' brarich of Chief Office to administer Its provisions. Its purpose is to enable all types pf associations, particularly sporting clubs arid commimity service orgahisatioris, to obtain a Corporate identity at a reasonable "cost. 'This wUl encourage more persons tomvolve themselves in a voluntary capacity In the activities of associations whh protection Ming afforded them by incorporation. In addition, there will be biiilt-in safeguards for the public who deal with the associations. The Justice Deiartment wiH be empowered 0 examine the operations of these bodies to ensure that their operations are within tie legislative guide-lines and that'funds contributed by the public are properly managed. 3280 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

The legal work of the Crown m right of the State of Queensland Is attended to by officers of the SolicUor-General's Office, and advice on aU legal matters is furnished to aU Government departments, Crovm corporations and Crovm instrumentalities. The office is divided into the following:—Solicitor-General, Crowri Solicitor and the administration. Prosecutions Branch, Common Law Branch, Conveyancing Branch, Advisory Branch and Constitution and Legislation Branch. The Solicitor-General is the Government's chief legal adviser and is the officer-in-charge of the Crovm Law Office. He represents the State at Interstate conferences on constitutional and international law matters and, if necesary, at similar conferences overseas. Presently he is engaged to a large extent on the constitutional problems arising from recent or current Commonwealth legislation and proposals. The Solicitor-General is a Crown Law officer with certain statutory powers and duties, including those under the Criminal Code, the Companies Act and the Business Names Act. The Crown Solichor Is, as his name implies, the solicitor on the record for the Crown in aU Crown legal matters in all courts and tribunes. He is responsible, inter aha, for briefing and instructing counsel and assumes control of the Crown Law Office in the absence of the Solicitor-General. Crown prosecutors from the Prosecutions Branch present indictments and prosecute in the Supreme Court, Circuit Courts and District Courts. The northem crovm prosecutor is stationed at Townsvilie and the central crown prosecutor is stationed at Rockhampton, The chief crown prosecutor and senior crown prosecutor are stationed at Brisbane, The remaining 31 crown prosecutors operate throughout the State. As the volume of criminal work is steadily increasing, members of the outside bar are being briefed m particular cases to present indictments and prosecute. Crown prosecutors also handle all criminal appeals to the Court of Crimmal Appeal and the High Court. They are also involved in appeals In the less serious crimmal matters and quasi-criminal matters to the District Court, to single judges of the Supreme Court and to the FuH Court and to the Public Service Board, Industrial Court and Land Court. The remainder of the Prosecutions Branch, some 13 barristers and one solicitor, are engaged In general quasi-criminal prosecutions In the Magistrates C>ourt, for aU Govemment departments, and In matters in the Industrial Court, Industrial Magistrates Courts, Land Court, Valuation Appeal Courts, Public Service Board and Coroners Courts. The branch also assists by instruding outside counsel when necessary. Some 30 clerks are engaged full time in the Prosecutions Branch. Subjed to the diredion of the Crown Solicitor, legal officers of the Crown Law Branch Institute and defend civil proceedings cm behalf of the Crown, Crown corporatirais and Crown instramentalities in aU courts and tribunals, including the judidal committee of the Privy COuncil. They also fumish advice on the rights and llabUides of the Crown in civU matters. Instruct outside counsel when necessary in such matters, afford assistance at royal commissions and other committees of inquiry and In arbitrations. Adions arising in the Supreme Court include the following types of cases where the Crown Is a party- Actions by way of prerogative writ; NegUgence actions arising out of— Motor vehicle and level crossing collisions, and master and servant cases; Appeals In revenue matters such as stamp duty, succession duty and gift duty; Injunction proceedings; Oiarity matters involving the Attorney-General; Relator actions; Adoption matters involving the Director of ChUdren's Services; Crown contrad matters; Actions arising put of alleged breaches of statutory duty. The branch handles quite a volume of valuation and resumption cases, mcluding a considerable number which are sdtled after registration. It has recently handled several matters before the Commonwealth Industrial Commission as weU as In the State Industrial sphere. It has also been involved In several Inquiries under such Acts as the Minmg Act the Companies Act, etc. AU this work continues to Increase. The branch presently consists of 29 qualified legal officers and 13 clerks. The Conveyandng Branch handles contracts, leases, Instruments

(b) To promote commercial certainty; (c) To bring about a reduction in business costs; (d) To provide for greater efficiency of the caphal markets; and (e) To maintain investor protection. The agreement provides for a councU comprising the respective Ministers of the States and the Commonwealth to exercise general oversight and control over the implementation and operation of the scheme. The securities industry legislation, which is now operative, was enacted in order to bring about greater market efficiency and to maintain and improve investor confidence on a national basis. The Companies (Acquisition of Shares) legislation, which also came into effect from 1 July 1981 on a uniform basis, Is based on the foUovring principles for the conduct of take-overs:— (a) Acquisitions take place in a market which is fully informed and operated on an efficient and competitive basis; (b) The offeror's identity is known to all shareholders of the target company and these offerees have adequate time to properly assess and consider the offer; and (c) The control of a company should pass slowly enough for the shareholders involved to be able to make informed dedsions and have equal opportunity to benefit from the offer. Legislation with respect to companies has been passed by the Commonwealth Parliament, Adopting legislation wiU be introduced into the various State Parliaments. Uniform com­ panies legislation is scheduled to come into effect throughout Australia from 1 July 1982, and this will complete the package. This will have significant benefits for the business community as well as providing a positive mechanism for Governments In their attempts at stemming the tide of abuse by corporate criminals operating across State boundaries. I have been concerned for some time with abuses In the commercial and investment areas of the market-place. I recently announced that I would create and develop an expert team consisting of Corporate Affairs officers and Crown Law personnel to tackle the problems of corporate crime in the "sUicone chip" area. The natiorial co-operative scheme wiU greatly assist in tackling those areas involving corporate operations extending over State boundaries, and I will be seeking to utilise these facilities to the utmost extent. The effect of the estabUshment of the National Companies and Securities Commission has already been felt in the financial market-place - in Australia in its short operative life so far. Whilst it is to be expected that some settling in the co-operative scheme is necessary due to the decentralised nature of its administration through Corporate Affairs officers in each of the States and the Australian Capital Territory, there is no doubt that the scheme is achieving its objects as provided for in the formal agreement. As a consequence of the scheme, this Stafe wiU be able to bring its view to bear on matters of national signfficance. In this sense It could be said that there has been an extension of the administration of corporate legislatipn by the State. There are a number of significant features of the legislative package under the co-operative scheme to which I would like to briefly draw attention. One of the most significant benefits is the concept of "one-stop shopping". In future, companies Incorporated in Queensland wiU lodge relevant documentation with the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs. To carry on business in another State or Territory, the Queensland company Is to have its name registered for the State or Territory desired, merely by application to the commissioner here in Queensland.

Another feature is the faciUty for a company in one jurisdiction to transfer its domicile to another jurisdiction. As a consequence of this, it could well be that a number of companies in other States may wish to establish their central operations in Queensland. In this respect it will be able to transfer its company registration from that other jurisdiction to Queensland with a minimum of red tape. Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3285

There are many benefits that will flow from this scheme. Another aspect I mention at this time relates to the registration of charges. From 1 January 1982 a priority system for the registration of charges wUl be introduced, but this will involve a significant change from the current operating procedures. This system will be similar to the current registration procedure applicable under the BUls of Sale Act in that a "first come first served" basis of registration will apply. The register of charges maintained by the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs will have further and better particulars recorded from January next year. When I mtroduced the co-operative scheme legislation into this Chamber in April last, I indicated that I would be looking to Improve the scheme arrangement from the point of view of this State by seeking amendment to the formal agreement in two respects:— (a) Unanimity of agreement with respect to legislative amendments; and (b) Strengthening the accountabUity of the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs to the Mmister of the Crown responsible for corporate affairs matters. A paper relating to the basic concerns of Queensland with respect to the co-operative scheme is presently before the Ministerial Council for its consideration. At the time of introducing the scheme legislation, I also Introduced, and this Chamber passed, amendments to the Administration of Commercial Laws Act, which effectively provided for the spUtting of the Office of the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs in Queensland into three separate functional units, namely— (a) The Office of the commissioner for Corporate Affairs to deal with companies, securities industry, acquisition of shares and business names matters only; (b) The Registry of Auctioneers and Agents to deal with licensing and regulation of auctioneers, real estate agents, motor dealers and commercial agents; and (c) The Registry of Commercial Acts to deal with all other legislative matters formerly the responsibility of the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs, induding building societies, credit unions, co-operative societies, friendly societies, money lenders, bUls of sale and the like. The purpose in providing for the above dissections of functions was largely to allow for specialisation of administration and responsibilities in line with those functions coming within the co-operative scheme. My initiative in splitting the Queensland Corporate Affairs Office Into three distinct functional units will enable me to maintain an experienced investigatory team to tackle corporate crime in this State. The first stage of the reorganisation of the Corporate Affairs Office has already been Implemented. A number of significant consequences of the specialisation of the corporate affairs function will follow. A substantial contribution has already been made, and Is continuing to be made, by practitioners in the commissioner's office to the national co-operative scheme. Experts In various fields in the office have been made available as members of advisory committees set up by the National Companies and Securities Commission to develop national policies and uniform administrative procedures. A further consequence of the reorganisation of the Office of the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs and the provision of specialisation in Its functions wiU be the carrying out of a program of updating company records available for search by the business public. This program has already commenced and wiU gain momentum over the foreseeable future. The co-operative scheme is tending to break down the artificial barriers of State boundaries previously existing In the national securities markets in Australia. There is, however, a cost involved. It has been found necessary to provide a heavier financial commhment to the corporate affairs function with respect to this State's share of the cost of operating the Ministerial Council and the National Companies and Securities Commission. This Is inevitable and will be far outweighed by the benefits to be gained, A number of other significant achievements have been made In the corporate affairs arena. One such accomplishment has been the conversion program Pf business names records and operations from a manual to a computerised System on a Statewide basis. To date, approximately 60 per cent of business names files have been converted to this system including all of the Brisbane registry and some major centres in South-east Queensland as weU as Townsvilie. This program Is being progressively extended to other country centres throughout Queensland. 3286 10 November 1981 Supply (Estunates)

The program provides for improved efficiency in management and administration and, I believe, improved facUities and accessibUity; for people In the country areas. AH company records held In the Brisbane office of: the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs are now recorded on microfilm. This has provided speedier and more accurate facUhies by way of access to the searchable company records for the business communhy and the general public. Progress is being made towards providing a computerised Index of all company and business names registrations In the Brisbane office. Ultimatdy h is planned that, through the establishment of computerised data banks, names of registered companies and business names throughout the entire Commonweahh wUl be easUy accessible by the commercial and general pubUc. It Is no hollow statement for this Government tO say that Queensland's development is surging ahead by leaps and bounds! One indication of this can be seen from the spectacular increase In the number of incorporated companies In the Brisbane registry of the Corporate Affairs Office. In the first half of this calendar year, the number of companies on the register increased, compared with the corresponding period in 1980, by over 120 per cent. More companies were incorporated in this sixrmonth period than in the whole of the 1980 calendar year. This trend, which has been building up over the last few years, shows no sign of abating. As at 31 December 1980, there were 70 088 companies registwed. 11 712 new companies, were registered in 1981 to the end of August. 12 719 new business names were registered m 1981 to the end of August. Other registrations effected during 1981 were— 4 co-operative societies, bringing the total to 161; 4 credit unions, bringing the total to 57; 20 housing societies, bringing the total to 1 0i33; and 1 friendly society, bringing the total to 116. Eighteen permanent building societies are registered. During the financial year ended 30 June 1981, new applications were lodged by 383 real estate agents, 266 motor dealers, 272 auctioneers, 25 commercial agents, 213 corporations, 312 managers and 3 218 salesmen. I Intend to introduce new legislation into this Chamber with respect to the regulation of the credit union industry in Queensland, which has a significant place in overaU financial markets. Total invested funds exceed $273m. Other legislative initiatives indude BiUs with respect to funeral benefits businesses, friendly societies, auctioneers and agentSi buUding societies and consumer credit. Significant and extensive increases have been provided In the Estimates for this subdepartment with respect to this Important Government responsibUity to the co-operative scheme for compaiues arid securities regulation and In connection with the program of computerisation and microfilming being carried but In the Brisbane office of the Corporate Affairs Office. The Licensing Commission is another subdepartment which comes under my admin­ istrative control. During the 12 months ended 30 September 1981 a total of 126 new Ucences under the Liquor Act (other than Ucensed victualler and tavem Ucences) was issued throughout Queensland. These Included three tourist park licences and one vigneron vintner's licence, which are new Ucences provided for under legislative amendments in 1979. During the same period work was complded on the building of new hotels at Mission Beach, Redbank Plains, Coolum, Noosavllle, Kurramirie, Urangan and Hay Pcant. Tenders were called and accepted for the removal pf licensed victualler's licences to the locaUties of Bohle, Middle Mount, Cannonvale and Victoria Point and for tavem licences at Park- hurst/Kawana, Albany Creek and Reedy Creek/Stephens (Gold Coast). Tenders have been called for tavern licences at Eagleby, Runcom and Slade Point. These dose In the beginning of December. Up to 30 June 1981 an amount of $746,500 was derived from the sale of licences by public tender for credit to the Liquor Act Trast Fund and a total of $32,536,739 was coUected by the Licensing Commission for credit to consolidated revenue. An additional $894,000 fees have been received to 30 September 1981 and $65,000 credited to the Liquor Act Trust Fund to that date. A total of 10353 applications of various kinds was considered by the commission during the 12 months ended 30 September 1981. Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3287

Next we come to the Registrar-General's Office. This year to 30 September 1981, the following events were registered in Queensland—births, 30 503; deaths. 13 278; marriages, 13 381; and adoptions, 402. In that period, 78 203 certified copies and extracts were Issued by the Registrar-General's Office and 30 000 by district registrars. In relation to births, the Introduction of a computer system has provided a vastly unproved service to parents. In particular, as a by-product of computer processing, an acknowledgement of birth is produced and dispatched to the parents free of charge. This document can be used is almost every circumstance in which a certificate of birth Is now required. This has the advantage of providing parents living in every area of Queensland with the equivalent of a birth extract. Previously, when circumstances demanded, the parents would be required to contact the district registry in which the birth was registered or altemativdy the Registrar-General in Brisbane to obtain a birth certificate. As a result of this innovation country people benefit considerably by the computer processing of birth registrations. Legislation to enable a mother who has been divorced or widowed to change the surname of her chUdren by her former marriage to that of her husband by her latest marriage, without the necessity of formal adoption procedures, came into operation on 1 September last. It would be remiss of me not to mention the tremendous services performed for the State by the Court Reporting Bureau. The bureau records verbatim in shorthand by Pitman or stenograph shorthand machines the evidence given In all the courts of higher jurisdiction throughout Queensland. These include the Court of Criminal Appeal, the Full Court, the Supreme Court, the Distrid Courts, the Industrial Commission, the Land Appeal Court, the CMitral Sugar Cane Prices Board, commissions of inquiry and other tribunals. Work- value hearings before Industrial Commissioners are often heard on the job and frequently reporters are called upon to report proceedings under most adverse conditions. Owing to a scarcity of trained reporters in Australia, It is a matter for regret that great difficulty is bdng encountered in maintaining the full complement of reporters. Every effort is being made to do so, however, and I must compliment the reporters for doing a difficuh job under trying circumstances. During the past year, the Queensland Titles Office has experienced the greatest influx in land dealings in its 120 years of operation. It is difficult to forecast future trends in real property, but it seems probable that there will not be a fall off in lodgments In the immediate future. It could be expected that the Intake of work wUl plateau on a level slightly below recent records. To Ulustrate the present trend let me give the Committee some figures— Total revenue for 1979-1980 was $12,784,901. This increased to $17,846,145 for 1980-1981. Documents lodged during 1979-1980 totalled 311789. Durmg 1980-1981, 385 944 documents were lodged. The Increase of 23.8 per cent In lodgments reflects an extremely buoyant real estate market in a State with expanding economic activity. New titles Issued Increased from 32 937 In 1979-1980 to 38 117 during 1980-1981. 5111 new plans of survey were lodged during 1979-1980 and 6188 during 1980-1981. The number of building unhs plans lodged over the past year Increased by 21 per cent. The greatest increase was in the southern district, reflecting unprecedented activity at the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast. A total of 251 group titles plans over 1 040 lots was received, compared with 154 plans over 719 lots last year. The 63 per cent increase In group thles plans lodgments indicates acceptance by local authorities and the general public of the Building Units and Group Titles Act, 1980, which came Into operation on 3 November 1980. I A recently introduced system of registration using loose-leaf titles is functioning smoothly and has been successfully established. The benefits of having Individual titles available whhout restricting the use of 49 other titles bound into the same book have been acknowledged by the staff and by members of the public. Loose-leaf Is housed in a restricted access security area. It is an expanding part of the office and now processes 3288 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

18 per cent of the documents lodged. The Registrar of Titles is a member of the Land Data Bank Steering Committee, which has elicited some information on computerised systems in other Australian land registries. A member of the Titles Office staff investigatdl the land ownership and tenure system in South Australia with other members of the project team. That system is a land information and search facUity. It is comprised of information which is mostly unchecked, and a search using that system is therefore not guaranteed. It appears that computerisation of Titles Office records will be a necessary prerequisite to the formation of a State land data bank. The Public Defender's Office has operated as a separate branch of the Department of Justice since 1968. The Public Defender's duty under the PubUc Defence Act 1974 is to render legal aid, subject to a means test, to persons who are charged with serious criminal offences in Supreme and District Courts. The aid available extends to Magistrates Courts where the offence with which the person is charged carries a penalty of more than 14 years' imprisonment. It extends to Children's Courts where the offence charged is an indictable offence. The staff of the Public Defender's Office has been static In size since 1975. Most country work and some Brisbane work is done by members of the private profession and paid for by the Public Defender. Much of the work in the Court of Criminal Appeal is done by the Public Defender's Office. Legal aid was rendered to 1882 persons on 6 151 charges in the 12 months ended 30 June 1981. During the finandal year just ended, an increase in the full-time staff of the Law Reform Commission was approved to Include two senior legal officers. These positions are new to the commission and mean that the full-time staff will be increased from three to five. One of the positions has been filled and applications have been called for the second position. The commission will then be organised as follows:— Chairman: The Hon. Mr Justice Andrews Full-time member: Professor K. W. Ryan, QC Part-time members: Mr B. H. McPherson, QC, Mr G. N. WilUams, QC, Sir John Rowell, SoUcitor, and Mr J. R. Nosworthy, SoUcitor Permanent staff: Two senior legal officers, secretary and stenographer. Professor K. W. Ryan, QC, was previously a part-time member and was appointed full-time to the commission for a period of two years on and from 1 November 1980. The professor is on leave from the University of Queensland for his period at the commission, and replaces Dr J. M. Morris who resigned as full-time member during July 1980. The part-time members play an invaluable role in the functioning of the commission. They are paid a stipend which is presently fixed at the rate of $10,000 per annum. During the past financial year the commission continued working on items on its formal program. The Succession BiU, based on a report of the commission, has passed through the House. As well as major studies, of which the most significant recent one has been a detailed study of the Supreme Court Acts and ancUlary Acts, the Commission has carried out numerous studies of areas of the law, either of its own initiative or at my request pursuant to its charter as defined in section 10 of the Law Reform Commission Act 1968-1976. The interest of my colleague, the Honourable Sir William Knox, In the area of consumer affairs has been well-known for many years. During his term as the then Minister for Justice who had responsibility for consumer affairs. Sir William brought about the establishment of the highly successful Small Claims Tribunal. The tribunal has been in operation for more than eight years, and up to 30 June 1981, 10 740 clahns have been lodged whh the registry at Brisbane. 3 922 orders have been made by the tribunal for a total amount exceeding $668,000 and 1 155 claims have been dismissed or struck out. 4 013 claims were whhdrawn during this period, the majority after conference between the parties and the referee. The Brisbane referee has made visits to Townsvilie, Rockhampton and Southport to conduct sittings of the tribunal. Disputes concerning repairs to motor vehicles and used-car warranties and disputes relative to tenancy bonds make up almost 50 per cent of the total claims filed. The orders made by the tribunal are published in "The Courier-Mail" Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3289 and in country newspapers circulating in the various centres. Since its Inception, the tribunal has received hundreds of letters of appreciation, mainly from consumers, but also from some traders. The Public Trust Office has had another successful year with a reasonable profit of $469,000, Although the figure is relatively modest, U has to be considered against the background that a substantial part of the activities of the office provide services to the community which can only be carried on at a significant loss. Procedures are kept under constant review with a view to saving time and costs and increasing service to the public generally. A continual flow of letters is received every week from satisfied clients expressing appreciation of the service which they have received. An Important aspect of improving service to the public has been the opening of smaller offices in a number of centres where the volume of work or other circumstances indicated the great desirability. The major functions of the office include— (a) The administration of deceased estates; (b) Acting in a wide variety of trasts; (c) Managing the estates of Incapable persons and certain long-term prisoners; (d) Dealing with unclaimed property; and

The Legal Aid Office is also' providing aid to mariy Aborigines who are unable to obtain the legal services from their own Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders Legal Service. While these programs are highlighted as an expansion in legal services, the duty lawyer scheme, legal advice and legal assistance that have been offered over the last 12 months continue to operate and expand. A great many adivities, too numerous to mention here, are performed by statutory bodies and committees which come under my administration. The members are drawn from many areas of the community as well as from within the department. In addition, many officers of the department are representatives on simUar bodies and committees established under Acts administered by my ministerial coUeagues. To aU these people and to the other officers of the Department of Justice, I wish to pay tribute. Without their unflagging efforts and complete co-operation and dedication throughout the years, the department could not function. To them I extend my deep appreciation for a job well done. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I inform honourable members that, on the Vote proposed, I will aUow full discussion on all the Minister's departmental Estimates (Consolidated Revenue and Trust' and Special Funds). For the information of honourable^ members, I point out that the administrative acts of the department are open to debate, but the ncMsshy for legislation and matters involving legislation cannot be discussed in Committee of Supply. Mr R. J. GIBBS (Wolston) (12.54 p.m.): On 4 August this year the Minister introduced legislation to amend the Liquor Act. It is very important legislation. It was mtroduced under the auspices of the Licensing Commission, for which the Minister is responsible. It provides that the following persons shall not hold liquor licences— "(a) a person who, in its oirinion, is not a fit and proper person to hold the Ucense sought; or - (b) a person who is or is likely to be under the influence, direction, management or control, with respect to the license, the business to be carried on pursuant to the license, or the premises ; . ." - With that in mind, I wish to bring to the attention of the Chamber and particularly the Licensing Commission an application that could come before that commission in the near future. At the present time a number of applications have been lodged with the State Government for a casino licence on the Gold Coast. I now refer to an article in "The Sydney Morning Herald" of 20 September 1950 concerning a gentleman associated with one of those applications. I am referring to Mr Eddie Kornhauser. The article is a report of a liquor Inquiry at that time. It reads— "Mervyn, Alfred Francis, assistant general manager of Tooheys Ltd., yesterday told the Royal Commissioner on liquor, Mr Justice Maxwell, that evidence he had given on Tuesday was inaccurate and misleading. He said he had stated that E. Kornhauser was the only person Interested in the lease of the Cumberland Hotel, Bankstown, when actually A. G. Saffron, proprietor of the Roosevelt Night Club, was guarantor of all accounts and the performance of all covenants in the lease." I should Uke to outline briefly the activities of Mr Abe Saffron. He was a professional purveyor of brothels in Sydney. He has been convicted on numerous occasions for his associations with the Sydney underworld and on more than one occasion was suspected of dropping bodies off in various parts of Sydney. "The Sydney Morning Herald" reported the evidence of the general manager of Tooheys as follows— "On November 2, 1950, you apparently yourself had an interview with EmU Kornhauser. On asking for a reference from him he gave Abraham GUbert Saffron?—Yes." At a later stage the report reads— "Kornhauser and Saffron called on you, and you told Kornhauser that the directors had received a report on the analysis of draught beer which disclosed five per cent added water in two large casks." Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3291

That had already been admitted In the court. I think I have already established the link between Saffron and Komhauser, who was backed financially by that highly undesirable person by the name of Saffron. The royal commission was chaired by Mr Justice Maxwell who, according to the official minutes, said— "A. G. Saffron employed a number of persons to conduct various hotels on his behalf though this was concealed from the Licensing Court. The facts shortly are as follows: Saffron was at the material times licensee of the Gladstone Hotel, Sydney. Before the Commission, he first swore that no one else had an interest in the licence; he later admitted that one Kincaid had a half share in it." His Honour then dealt briefly with Kincaid. He said— "Kincaid was interested in pther hotels with Saffron, but it was—as stated— concealed from the Licensing Court. The licence of the Mortdale Hotel was held on his behalf by Mrs. Frack, of the Cumberland Hotel, by one Komhauser. Kornhauser admitted that on his application he misled the Licensing Court." Mr Justice Maxwell said later— "It is proper to add that they arose not only In the case of companies floated for the purpose outUned above, but as weU in the case of individuals who flouted the law in clear breach of the section by ipstaUing 'dummies' as licensees and— to carry out their unlawful designs—swore falsely before the Licensing Court and, untU discovery, persisted in the false swearing before this Commission. . . . A. G. Saffron ultimately admitted his beneficial interest in a number of hotels using different persons as 'dummies'. These hotels included West End Hotel, Westdale Hotel, Cumberiand—" which is the important one because it was the hotel for which Kornhauser acted as front man for Saffron, financed by dollars which obviously had been illegally eamed through connection with the Sydney underworld. [Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.]

Mr R. J. GIBBS: Mr Justice MaxweU went on to say— "I am satfsfied beyond reasonable doubt that the distribution of Uquor by many hotel Ucensees has not been carried out reasonably, that this has operated to the detriment of the pubUc by denying those legitimately entitled to get it from hotels, immense quantities of liquor in the main bottled beer, because it was being diverted to unlicensed clubs, to restaurants supplying liquor with and without permits, by notorious and infamous night clubs and, as well, to persons or places carrying out a 'sly grog' trade in the weH understood sense." He said further— "Cumberland Hotelj Bankstown: Whilst E. Komhauser Was the licensee, this hotel suppUed the Roosevelt Restaurant with 70 dozen bottled beer a week at £2 a dozen, said to be 'top price'. Apart from the quanthies and price involved, the seriousness of the supply is aggravated, if possible, by the fact that the Roosevelt is possibly the most notorious and disreputable nightclub in the city." As I pointed out before, the feUow who adually financed Mr Kornhauser into the Cumberland Hotel was the notorious Abe Saffron, a professional purveyor of brothels amongst other thmgs. I now wish to quote from the minutes of evidence of the Maxwell Royal Commission, in particular the questions asked by Mr Dovey, KC, of Komhauser, who was giving evidence under oath. The transcript reads— I "You swore to teU the truth?—That is correct. But you did not teU the truth, did you?—I do not know what you mean." The transcript continues— •, "^"** ^ suppose you will agree that what you there stated was not the truth, was It.—It was my money. I had it for seven years. I do not know what question you refer to. 3292 10 November 1981 Supply (Estunates)

Do you say you purchased the lease, licence and goodwUl of the Cumberland Hotel whh your own moriey?—^Yes. And nobody else's money?—That is so." The transcript then goes on to show beyond any shadow of doubt that Kornhauser again lied under oath to the royal commission, because It states— "Who suggested to you, if anybody, that you should not disclose that you had a partner?—I cannot remember. I think I discussed it with Mr Saffron." That proves beyond any doubt the close association between Saffron and Mr Eddie Kornhauser. There was then a discussion about adulterated beer, and the transcript reads— "You remember the adulterated beer?—I do. How did the water get in the beer?—It is beyond me stiU to-day. I have been away in Melbourne at the time and I came back and my barmaid told me that somebody from Tooheys caUed and I learned the first thing about h. That is the first thing you knew about h?—That is right. Did you make any inquiries?—^Yes, I made inquiries. I have asked the cellarman, I have asked the bar manager, and I still could not understand. I think it must have been some fault of the plumbing." That is the gentleman who, backed by Asian doUars, has applied for a casino Ucence on the Gold Coast. We have documented proof from the minutes of evidence of the royal commission that he has been involved with criminals in the Sydney underworld and that he has told deliberate lies to the royal commission—I might add, one of the most sensational royal commissions ever held in Australia. To top it off, in an article Mr Burns: He was investigated by Dr Edwards and his committee, wasn't he?

Mr R. J. GIBBS: I wiU comment on that in a moment. I have here an article about Mr Komhauser which states— "He has an impeccable track record with the Licensing Commissions of New South Wales, Victoria and Queensland . . . ." Yet in spite of what is said in that article, in April 1956, when he made an appUcation for the Ucence of the Newport Hotel, the New South Wales Licensing Court Magistrate, Mr S. M. Stewart, said that he had no hesitation In saying that Mr Kornhauser was not a fit person to hold a publican's licence. Again, that is a major indictment of a man who, in business and Government circles, is strongly rumoured to be the leading contender for the licence to operate a casino on the Gold Coast. I refer to an article headed "It's all in the Family" in the Sydney "Daily Mirror" of 13 March 1960, which states— "Mr EmU Kornhauser, whom a magistrate described as not a fit and proper person to hold an hotel licence, is a director of a company holding virtually half the ordinary shares in Wynyard Plaza Pty. Ltd." I shaU not go into aU the details of that matter. The article further states— "The deal has been questioned in a violent split between State Cabinet and Caucus, Wynyard Plaza Is paymg £85,000 for the Plaza lease, and has offered £10,000 for a lease of the disused tram tunnels adjoining the hotel premises along the Wynyard Station ramp. Sydney real estate experts claim a lease for the hotel area, ramp section and tunnel area, would be worth £1 million to enter, with a yearly rental of £100,000." It then goes on to refer to the problems being faced by the Govemment of the day. The Cabinet was in conflict with the back-bench members of the Government who, even at that time, were questioning the honesty, integrity and business reputation of Mr Komhauser. Further on the article states— "The company of which Mr EmU Kornhauser is a director is Crown Investments Pty. Ltd. registered in NSW., Co-directors of Crown Investments whh Mr EmU Kornhauser, are Messrs Barnard and Jacob Kornhauser, both of Melbourne. Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3293

Crown Investments Pty. Ltd., which is Usted as having 100 000 shares in Wynyard Plaza Ltd., is currently described in documents at the NSW Registrar-General's Office as havmg a nominal share capital of £50,000, divided into 50 000 shares of £1 each." Here is the catch—and I ask honourable members to listen carefully— "The company has only two shareholders—^Messrs E. L. Fifer and B. Lindsay, who are each shown as possessing 100 shares. Mr Fifer is described in company documents as a chartered accountant; and Mr Lindsay as an accountant. So much for Crown Investments, now for Wynyard Plaza." The article then goes on to deal with Wynyard Plaza. It shows the blatant manipulation of companies and the highly unethical business practices of Mr Kornhauser back in the 1960s. In fact, he attempted to make an offer to the State Govemment for the take-over of those premises. I am sure that all honourable members were appalled to read recently about a gentleman from a prominent Las Vegas casino who visited Australia. He was apprehended at the Sydney Airport when attempting to take out of this country almost a quarter of a mUlion dollars in both Australian and American currency. An article in "The Sydney Morning Herald" of 7 November 1981, headed "Hasty exit sds police a new casino puzzle", referred to two gentlemen who were departing from Sydney Airport. Lo and behold, at the same time as the balloon went up on those two men, two other men, believed to be Americans who had been staying at Surfers Paradise, left Brisbane Airport on an international flight. They were afraid that they were going to be arrested for a similar offence. The article in "The Sydney Moming Herald" stated— "Police beUeve there may be a link between the visit by the men to Surfers Paradise with the intense lobbying in Queensland for a casino licence on the Gold Coast." I cannot lay the proof before this Chamber today, but I will be very surprised if I am not able to do so within the next couple of weeks, and I warn Government members of my intention to do so. I believe that I will be able to prove that there was a definite link between the two gentlemen who left Brisbane on an international flight after their associates had been apprehended in New South Wales and a prominent person on the Gold Coast who has submitted an appUcation for the casino licence. Mr Goleby interjected. Mr R. J. GIBBS: I am not taking any interjections from lightweights, particularly from a National Party Ughtweight. I make no apologies for saying in this Chamber that I am firmly of the opiriion that there Is a definite link between Mr Kornhauser and a prominent Minister of this Governinent who has been touting Mr Komhauser's name around Queensland and deliberately going into bat hi Govemment circles, and particularly in National Party circles, to ensure that the casino licence is awarded to Kornhauser for services rendered to the National Party. In reply to a question directed to him some days ago by the Deputy Leader of the Opposhion, the D^uty Premier and Treasurer (Dr Edwards) gave a firm commitment to the ParUament that under no circumstances would any person whose company or corporate record can be qtiestioned or who Is an associate of known criminals or underworld figures be granted a casino licence. I appreciate that statement from the Treasurer. In aU fainiess to Treasury officials, I say that I do not believe there Is any collusion on thdr part in relation to the granting of the casino Ucence. However, a stench surrounds the appUcation and the involvement of the National Party and, in particular, prominent people within that party. Immediately the necessary information is at my disposal, I intend to name those people in the ParUament. I caU on the Deputy Premier to very careifully vet the casmo applications. I rdterate the plea that I made in the Matters of Public Interest debate two weeks ago to ensure a full Investigation by the Corporate Affairs Office of the activities and the financial backing of every applicant for a casino licence on the Gold Coast. The fads that I have mentioned may not have been readily available or common knowledge, but, they are In the mmutes of a report of a Royal Commission held in 1954 and they reveal the background of Mr Kornhauser. I want to know why one of the three 3294 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates) persons responsible for reporting to the Parliament has not brought that evidence before honourable members. We have been given an assurance that the granting of a casino licence will be above-bOard. The Opposhion questions the Govemment's integrity in this matter; even more, it questions the role of the National Party, because I beUeve that we are witnessing one of the most shocking examples of political patronage that has occurred in Queensland. The Opposition and the people of Queensland deniand an immediate reply to the accusations.

Mrs NELSON (Aspley) (2.27 p.m.): I rise to comment on some of the matters raised by the Minister in his lengthy Introduction of the Justice Estimates. I congratulate him on his outstanding achievements in the almost 12 months that he has been Minister for Justice and Attomey-General and draw his attention to some matters about which I am personally concemed. The first Is the PubUc Trast Office. Let me go back some years and examine comments made in the annual reports about what was known as the Public Curator's Office, which became The PubUc Trust Office hi 1978. The report for the year ended 30 Jurie 1975 states— "The work of the Office has continued tp grow and there is an increase over the previous year in the number of estates and matters entrusted to the Office for administration and in the value thereof ..." The most worrying feature of, the year's activities has been the enormous increase in operating costs . . ." In 1974 and 1975 the PubUc Curator's Office was under significant attack, and a number of statements appeared in the Press about lengthy delays experienced by people attempting to have estates settled by the PubUc Curator's Office. . The report for the year ended 30 June 1976 includes this statement— "The year has seen a considerable re-Oi^anizktiOn of the staffing and functioning of the Office with a substantial increase in the number of staff. This was necessary to cope with the great increase in volume of work over recent years which had resulted in a workload greater than officers could reasonably be expected to handle— with consequential delays, arrears of Work and other undesirable features. The result of these changes has been a very great improvement in the state Of work of the Office and the overcoming of the major part of the backlog." There were significant complaints In the media between 1976 and 1977. However, the report for the year erided 30 June 1977 contains the following statement:— "The financial year has seen the completion pf the phase of re-organization of staffing and functioning of the Office which had been set in train in the previous two years to deal vvith large arrears of work and other functional problems. However, the year has also brought with it large problems of change requirmg further substantial adjustments. Increases In staff and the creation of new ppsltlons have cured the problenir—" a very positive statement without, a great deal of supporting material—n; "of a large backlog of work in the administration of deceased estates, with the result that the normal estate now proceeds through' the process of administration without delay and quite quickly." ! ; ; i; We ought to draw" attentiori to the fkct that bdween 1974 and 1977, because of the significarit pubUc comment about the operations, of the Public Curator, there were significant increases in its staff. Clearly the work-load had been too much for the officers. The Government had become cognisant of that and had appointed new staff. The report for the year ended 30 June 1978 says— "The finandal year has seen a consoUdation pf, organisational changes reflected In a general satisfactory and efficient functioning." , This Is the bit that I find amusing, because it is the first time It Crops up, but it is repeated every year afteryv:ards— "This appears to be attested by a continual flow of letters from dients or bene­ ficiaries expressing thanks for the manner In which matters have been handled." Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3295

I am always very suspicious about members of Parliament who show me letters of thanks from grateful constituents for the amount of work they have had done. I am equally suspicious when I read h In a departmental annual report. Perhaps I am being a Ihtle harsh and cynical in my judgment. It may be that in 1978 things were not functioning too badly. However, I have with me a Press release hi which the member for Rockhampton (Mr Wright) made significant attacks on the considerable delays In handUng estates. He made quite a long statement in the Chamber expressing extreme concern about the way in which the department was then being run. The 1978 report said that there had been a reduction in the volume of work. It went on to explain why. .It mentioned the avaUability of legal assistance and the increase in the number of cases in which people were using their own solicitors. Because of that staff numbers were decreased. That was repeated in 1979, when it was said— "The Office has generally fundipped In a satisfactory and efficient way in 1978-1979. It has been possible tp continue the process of reducing staff to levels consistent with efficiency and economy ..." I would suggest that it was consistent with economy, but not necessarily with efficiency. Certainly staff numbers had dropped quite significantly. In consequence, there certainly was a redudion in administrative costs. However, the next paragraph is the telUng one— "There have been modest (increases in new work received in most areas of the Office's activities." 1 would suggest that that was a plea for help from the person who wrote the report^an attempt to get through to the Government and to back-benchers, who should have read the report, .,that clearly the whole period of decline in the work-load had changed and there was now a need to re-examine staffing. Turning to the report for the year erided 30 Jime 1980—^bearing in mind that in 1978 the Act was changed and the Office became the Public Trust Office—it said— "The Office has functioned in a satisfactory and efficient manner during the year ... It has been possible to effed a further small reduction in the number of staff from 452 as at 30th June, 1979, to 444 as at 30th June, 1980." Again, it goes on to say that there' had been an increase in the work-load. This year's annual report does not say whether there has been an increase in the work-load. However, my observation and the contacts I have had with people in my electorate would lead me to coriclude that there has been an increase in; the work-load and that the general staff levels are now bact to 1974, when they were completely unsatis­ factory to cope with the demands of the work. I bdieve that the PubUc Trastee has an onerous job to dp and I entirely respect the officers who try to carry it out. However, this is 1981—almost 1982. We have had singificant problems in unemployment in our society. We have a growing group of elderly people who have very limited resources at thdr disposal. I believe that the next decade wUl see a dramatic increase in the use of the Public Trast Office. I would urge the Minister to reaUy place a high priority on increasing staff in that office. I conclude my remarks about that aspect of the PubUc Trast Office by quoting from a Press article which appeared in the "Sunshine COast Daily" ori Saturday, 3 October 1981. It says—

"Veterans defend mum's rights A mother's 20-year straggle to gain control of her own finances has sparked a bitter fight between war veterans and the Federal Govemment. The Queerisland coriference of the Totally and Permanently Disabled Soldiers' Associatiori voted in Calouridra yesterday to oppose a 'Razor Gang' recommendation to pass contrPl Pf InSane vetd-ans' trust ^accounts to State public curators. The association wiU take the case of Brisbane mother of seven, Nancy Pearce of Upper Mount Gravatt, to. its National Congress as an exariiple of the needs to fight the recommendation. •',--. Brisbane headquarters delegate BUl Bumett said the State Public Curator's Office had taken control of the family's finances when Lew Pearce—a Middle East 3296 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

veteran with a nervous disorder—^was admitted to a mental hospital In 1960. Since then, control of accounts has passed to Veterans Affairs which State president Jack Claffey described as having a humane face. Last night Mrs Pearce warned of the misery servicemen would face if the State was handed back this responsibUity. Mrs Pearce said, because her husband had not signed power of attorney to her, the State had taken over his finances when he was admitted. Today, 10 years after his release,—" and this is appalling— "$9,000 of their money is still held in low interest investments made by the State. And it wasn't until 1976—six years after Lew Pearce's release—that the family regained control of the day-to-day running of the household budget. Mrs Pearce said, however, that what had hurt her more than the 10-year struggle to raise seven children on handouts from the Public Curator, had been the four per cent it had charged to look after the money. 'They only gave me $20 of our money to help with the cost of each of my eldest girl's weddings,' she said. 'Even if I needed money for a new Iron or the kid's clothes, I had to go cap in hand to the curator. 'We were never given money. It was always a chit. 'They tried to degrade us down to nothing,' she said." Admittedly, that lady has had a long period of misery. I am not saying that that is a classic example of how the Public Trust Office works, but I can cite the case of an elderly woman who had her will made through the Public Trust Office on the suggestion of the home in which she was living. The home was not made the executor, but it was given the power to settle the estate. At the beginning of this year that lady died. She had held a substantial number of shares and other property. Transfer of the ownership of that property and shares could have been carried out by at least May or June of this year. Apparently that was not done. The shares are still held by the Public Trustee. As everybody knows, the share market has changed dramatically since the beginning of this year. The Public Trust Office has had nearly a year in which to transfer those shares into the names of the beneficiaries or into its own holdings until they can be transferred into the names of the beneficiaries. Unless the executors can force the Public Trust Office to hold the shares—^which I believe they can at law— until the value rises dramatically, that estate could suffer a substantial loss. That is one example of what happened in 1981. I believe that that is the result of understaffing and overwork in the office, not because of carelessness or lack of knowledge. I would suggest to the Minister that perhaps a review needs to be made of the type of staff available in the office. Perhaps someone with market experience and modern thinking in terms of investment, taking into account the limitations imposed by the Act, needs to be appointed.

Some months ago I asked the Minister for Health a questipn about the ownership of assets of InteUectuaUy handicapped people in institutions. I was told that $180,047 was held on behalf of inteUectually handicapped people resident in Basil Stafford Traming Centre and ChaUinor Centre. I was told that a further $8,111 was held on behaff of patients at Halwyn Centre, which is for profoundly handicapped children and adults, and that there were substantially more sums of money around the State held in trust. I understood that under the arrangements, interest earned on any Investments made by people who, under the Ad, are unfit to look after thpir own affairs was paid into their individual account. The answer that the Minister for HeaUh gave me was that some of those moneys are spent for the common good of jpatlents In such centres, I would ask the Minister to examine the legal poshion of such action. It is not appropriate for any Government Instramentality, no matter how well-intentioned it may be, to decide that it wUl spend somebody else's money in the common good of patients in an mstitution. From an ACCESS 81 conference that I attended In July, I know that the parents of children In such institutions resent the fact that the Public Trustee Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3297 and the Health Department "play" with thdr children's money. They beUeve that the money should be spent for the good of their individual children alone, as that was the reason for the estabUshment of the trast or the allocation of the money. I should like the Minister's department to examine the manner in which moneys are held and handled for intellectually handicapped adults. The rights of an InteUectuaUy handicapped aduU differ tremendously from those of an intellectually handicapped child. The laws are being examined throughout Australia. The Law Reform Commission is looking at them. This year I attended a number of conferences at which the laws regarding the rights of InteUectuaUy handicapped adults were examined. The Public Trustee should change its attitude towards the disposal of moneys on behalf of Intellectually handicapped adults. That brings me to a question that I asked the Minister for Justice earlier this year. I asked when amendments would be made to legislation to delde the use of terms that I regarded as obscene and outdated in their application to InteUedually handicapped people. As the Minister is aware, the use of such terms involves the Health Department, the Education Department and the Criminal Code. Primarily, it involves the Criminal Code. In the Minister's answer he assured me that action was being taken to amend the Criminal Code. I contacted the Parliamentary Counsel regarding the proposed deletion from legislation of terms that are distressing to inteUectually handicapped persons and their families. As recently as yesterday 1 was informed by the ParUamentary Counsel that poUcies are made in Government departments and legislation is drafted accordingly. The Parliamentary Counsel has not received any overall directive to refrain from the use of terms such as "idiot" and "imbecile" in legislation. As weU, no directive has been given to alter the terms in the Criminal Code, which is the outstanding example of legislation in which such terms are included. It was also explained that when these words were used in legislation at the turn of the century they did not at that time convey the derogation that they now tend to do. As Acts are repealed and substituted with new legislation, the terminology changes and the use of these words is gradually disappearing from current legislation, "Gradually" is certainly the correct word to use. For a number of years I have been campaigning for such changes to our legislation. I know that voluntary organisations have been campaigning in a similar manner and have been given assurances that in this year, the Intemational Year of Disabled Persons, all such terminology wiU be removed from the statute-book as quickly as possible. It is not good enough for a criminal charge to allege that the accused had carnal knowledge with an "idiot". Such a term Is 100 years out of date, if ever it was in vogue. The Minister should take immediate action to advise the Parliamentary Counsel to alter the legislation. I realise that staffing problems have occurred in the Parliamentary COunsd's office and that a large amount of legislation is being prepared for presentation to Parliament. Nevertheless, assurances have been given to me and to public bodies that the changes would be made. I urge the Minister to ensure that they are formulated before the end of this year so that they can be presented to Parliament in the March session. Some people claim that such changes are merely cosmetic. They may well be; but they will have an enormous effect on the community's attitude towards intellectually handicapped people. In the theatre and on television police series various people are continually referred to as being morons. Idiots and imbeciles. Such terms are no longer relevant in today's socidy. I turn now to legal aid. My electorate office receives a large number of visits by deserted women who are in need of legal aid. A number of them have attended court only to learn that the barrister or solicitor who was appointed to appear for them has faUed to appear. Although this matter may well come within the jurisdiction of the Queensland Law Society and not the Minister's department, I ask him to try to ensure that such situations do not arise in the future. Quite often, a deserted wife who has sought and been promised legal aid has gone to court and found that her husband has hired a very expensive barrister and that her barrister has not turned up. She is devastated. In fact, one woman in my electorate very nearly lost the custody of her child to her alcoholic, physically-abusing husband because she found herself In such a ^situation. In 1981 that is appalUng. I sincerely hope that the Minister will take adion with the relevant group to see that that does not happen again. 3298 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

I conclude with some ; comments on entertairimerit machines. In opening the debate, the Minister said that, during the year ended 30 September 1981, 1724 entertainment machines and 245 site approvals for more than two entertainment machines were registered. He then said— "Constant criticisms of the use of entertainment riiachines by juvenUes led to a tightening up in the issue of permits to conduct machines and in the supervision of premises In which the machines aire operated. A contiriuous monitoring oif these activities is pursued and, iii the eVeiii of breaches appropriate, action is taken." I recognise that the Minister and his department can only uphold the law. I applaud the Minister for his actions In tightening up the procedures. There Is no doubt that the use of entertainment machines jn our society is increasing at a frightening rate, and there is a large amount of docuriientary eviderice from the United States of America, where such machines have been prevalent for the last decade, that they may have very serious permanent psychological effects on yoiing children. When introducing his Estimates the week before l^st, the Minister in charge of the Police Department spoke of the increase in juvenile. crime Involving yery young children. I spoke in that debate about the number of young children in my electorate who had been caught leaving notes and taking coins to operate these machines. The Govemment and the Opposition ought to be considering the philosophical question whether the type of society that we have now and the type of society that we want for our children in the future leave room for the use of' such invidious machines. What do they give our community? What do they give our children? They give absolutely nothirig to our children. r, : n ' , ;. r Mr Burns: You objed to kids using two-bob slot machines but ypu are opening casinos and aUowing bingo.

•'•,••'• : . -'^ ' . r..- . .. Mrs NELSON: The ALP is in favour of casinos and poker machines. The honourable member cannot criticise this Government for its attitude because his party supports casinos and poker machines. Various members of the Opposition, induding the member for Brisbane Central, have derided me for my statements about entertainment machines. Mr Davis Interjected. , ,n ; ' ; Mrs NELSON: The week before last, the honourable member derided me for my statements about these machines. I repeat them. The Opposition has no credibUUy on that subject. I ask the Government to examine iti closely. (Time expired.) ' •

Mr SCASSOLA (Mt Gravatt) (2.48 p.m.): In taking part iri this debate this afternoon may I firstly congratulate the Minister in discharging the task of administering what is inevitably a very difficult department to adminis'tifer. He has discharged his obligations admirably and has an excellent reputation in the Community as being a Minister who ably discharges his obligations. The officers of the departnient are also, deserving of thanks. They are very abk and courteous people. Their assistance over ,the past year, and before that, has been very much appreciated by me on, the occasions when I have had to seek it. The honourable member for Aspley spoke about entertainment machines. I concur with ^everything she said. I, and other, men\bers, have raised this matter on previous occasions. There is no doubt that the proliferation of entertainment machines is of growing concern In the, community. The Minister, ip effect, pointed out how the numbesr of these machihes is grpwing, and that is a matter of concern. There has certainly been a tightening up in the issuing of permits, and I welcome that as a step in the right direction. But there are many instances of appUcations for the Installation of entertainment machines being made whhout the making of the appUcations ibeIng known to those who would be Interested in commentmg on them and perhaps objecting.to them. At times an appUcation is made for the installation of! up to 40 or 50 machmes. I suggest that a system should be introduced whereby, a person who riiakes appUcation for the instaUatidi of large numbers of entertainment machines would be obUged- to notify people who he Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3299 might reasonably exped to have an interest in knowing of the application., I can cite examples. If an applicaticm relates to premises in close proximity to schools or places where young people congregate, I believe that parents and other people living in close proximity to those premises could have an interest in knowring; of the application so that they would have an opportunity to object, If they so desired. In addition, I believe that the person who makes the application should have an obUga­ tion placed upon him to advertise the making of the application so that people in the community at large would have the opportunity of objecting. The taking of such steps would be another move in the right direction and would at least ensure that people who have an Interest in knowing of the making of an application would leam about It and thus have an opportunity to take whatever action they saw fit. The Minister riiade a statement to the effect that he desires to see the law come much closer to the people. There have been a number of instances where that desire has been put Into practice this year. One of the Ways in which the law can be brought much closer to the people is by ensuring that the language used in the law is as simple as possible so that the law can be understood by the ordinary person. The law can also be brought much closer to the people if steps are taken to ensure that It is certain. We In this place can render a valuable service to the community by taking adequate time to consider the laws we make and ensuring that they are accurate, that we ourselves understand them and that they can be readily understood by people outside. It is very important that the initial place for the examination of the law Is In this Chamber. In short, it is Important that every step be taken to ensure that the law can be readily understood by the ordinary citizen. If the ordinary citizen is bound by the law, arid If ignorance of the law Is no excuse, then the law should be readUy avaUable to him at all times. I commend the Minister for the initiative that he has shovm In having, the pamphlet statutes consoUdated. Such a consolidation Is long overdue, and It wlU receive considerable support from the legal profession and also from the Comriiunity at large. I sincerely hope that the process of consoUdating statutes In volume form will continue. It ought to be an ongdng process. One tends to regard legislation as being only th^ statutes that are passed in this Chamber; obviously, it is much broader than that. It encoihpasses the many regulations made by the Executive Govemment and puhllshed in the Gfovemriient Gazette. The Government must endeavour to ensure that regulations are always readily avaUable to the public. There have been instances in the past in which old regulations, in particular, have not always been readily obtainable. It is important to ensure that they are never out of prmt and that they are always avaUable. More importantly on the question of iconsoUdation, there is an urgent need to ensure that regulations are consolidated so that all the regulations made under one statute are avaUable at all times. There is also a need for regulations to be published in a consolidated volume fprm, perhaps according to subject matter or in yearly volumes. ,, , One of the difficulties that practitioners and others face these days is in actuaUy locating regulations and obtaining copies of them. If they were readily available in volume form, that would facilitate the work of the law and those engaged in It. I respedfully refer the Minister to a system that the Victorian Government has introduced in that respect. In hi^ speech the,Minister referred to trust accounts and to the need for praditioners who have trust accounts to lodge audit reports at certain tinies of the year. It ought to be remembered that a soUcitor does not prepare the ri^pprt; he is obliged to rely pn other people to do that. Despite that, the obligation stUl rests on him to ensure that the audit report is received by the Under Secretary within the prescribed time. The 1978 amendment to the'Triis't Accbtiiits Act removed the ordiriary defences that were formerly avaUable under the Criminal Code to a practitioner who was prosecuted. That has placed practitioners in an extremely difficult position, because they are obUged to ensure that the reports are iji thp hands of the Under Secretary jilthpugh they/eally have no control over their compilation, .That is unfair, ^nijl,Uri just. I sincerely tmst that steps wUl be, taken urgently to rectify the shuation so that the usual,defences are available to practitioners who are prosecuted forthe late lodgment of returns. Jn that context, I ask: hWmany of the 22 prosecutions for failure to lodge returns were in fact prosecutions ior the late, lodgment of returns? . ; ' , , =. In his speech the Minister demonstrated quhe graphically the expansion which is taking place in the various spheres of^ activity in the department and the State. He cited the 3300 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates) increase in the number of companies and the undoubted increase in the work-load of the department as well as the Increase In the number of transactions in the Titles Office. That evidence indicates the great expansion that Is taking place In activity In the State. It is reasonable to assume that the work of the courts is also increasing. Last year saw the appointment of masters, which I believe helped to relieve judges of the Supreme Court of routine

Mr FOURAS (South Brisbane) (3.6 p.m.): Four years ago, in a debate on the Estimates pf the Minister for Justice and Attomey-General, I suggested that a one-card system for electoral rolls be Introduced. I believed then that there was a wide consensus in the Parliament, as there Is now, that that system should be introduced. In my dectorate at the last State election, a large number of my campaign workers checked the Federal roll against the State roU and found that 1 177 names were on the Federal roU but riot on the State roll. For that reason and for Pther reasons, the Minister deserves to be belted In the Parliament on that issue. Although he is to be complimented for the honesty Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3301 that he has shown in relation to some problems connected whh his portfolio, I do not believe that he was being fair dinkum when he spoke about the reason why he could not bring in a one-card system of enrolment. Oh 10 September 1979 his predecessor (Mr Lickiss) said that there would be a change In that session of Parliament to shnplify voter enrolment. He said that legislation would be brought ht to make Jtt.posisible ior everybody to Ml m one card and for the roUs to be compiled through the use of computers. He said that it would take about 12 months to implement such a system. The foUowing day that decision was applauded by "The Courier-MaU", which said in an editorial that voters should have to register only once^-on the Commonwealth roll— and that they should then be eUgible to vote at elections covered by all other rolls. It said that the announcement meant that Queensland State electors would in future need only one month's residence Instead of three to be able to vote. The editorial said that there should be no objedlon to that. What happened? One year later, on 20 August 1980, the then member for Lockyer (Mr Bourke) asked the then Minister for Justice and Attomey-General (Mr Lickiss) about the Commonwealth/State electoral enrolment system. The question asked was, "What is the estimated annual cost of maintaining a separate roll?"—in other words, a two-card system. The answer was, "$700,000." So that amount of money is bdng wasted. In the same answer Mr Lickiss said— "Approval has been given for officers of the State to prepare in conjunction with officers of the Commonwealth a draft arrangement for the purpose of implementing a system of joint Commonwealth/State enrolments, using Commonwealth computer files of enrolments and deldions." Since then honourable members have been told that 20 officers have been given the responsibility of compUing a State roll. So 20 officers have been working for a long time, whh possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of computer time bdng used and wasted, on somdhing that we all believe ought to be abolished. On 27 October 1980, the headline appeared in the "Telegraph", "1 form for two votes". We were told that In this marvellous computer age it was a lay-down misere and that there would be no problems. But the position changed. The present Minister for Justice (Mr Doumany) was asked on 12 May this year whether the proposal was under consideration and he said that it was. On 14 May, two days later, he dropped the bombshell, saying that Queensland would keep Its own roHs. It is interesting to examine how the Minister justified that rather ludicrous decision. 1 believe that an overwhelming majority of honourable members would want a one-card system. The Minister received his orders from the Premier. The proposal did not suit the National Party because in TownsviUe and Brisbane, two areas with a mobile population, it was more advantageous to the National Party not to have a One-card system. When the Minister announced that Queensland would keep its own rolls, he said that the decision to have its own roll would not involve the Queensland Government in any significant extra expense. That is amazing! The former Minister for Justice said that the two-card system cost at least $700,000. Twenty people have been working on the system for 9 to 12 months. The Minister said that a State roll Is needed for a number of reasons, including jury service, identification of justices of the peace and local government elections. I am not talking about one roll; I am talking about one card and one enrolment. A roll will always be needed for South Brisbane. How would my returning officer ran an election In South Brisbane or WooUoongabba without a roU for South Brisbane? I am talking about the simplification of enrolments. The reasons given by the Minister for Justice are outlandish. A 12-year-old child can see through them. The State could have a list of JPs and its ovm roll for local authority dections. I cannot understand how the Minister, who has been so straight and disarmingly honest on many issues, can come into this Chamber and try to sell this codswallop to honourable members. It Is amazing. Enrolments in Queensland dropped from 1 333 289 at 31 December 1980 to 1 285 325 at 31 August 1981. That Is a drastic decrease. At the same time, enrolments on the Commonwealth roll are much higher. There are 89 000 fewer people on the State roll 3302 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

than on the FederaL roll. There are 48 000 fewer people on the State roll now tiian there were at the end of last year. We have been told that about 4 000 or 5 000 people a month are flocking to Queensland. In the same period 50 (XX) or 60 (XX) more people are aUeged to have come here, yet there has been a decUne in the number of enrolments. It is time that the Minister re-examined the concept of having one card and one roll, Wheri I represent the Opposition at citizenship ceremonies at the City HaU, I see people receive a naturalisation certificate. In addltioh, they receive a satchel containing one form—a Commonwealth enrolment form. In every Australian State with the exception of Westem Australia, people enrol once only. When people become citizens of,this State, they receive a satchel and they discover that they have received one form. They complete this form. My electorate, like that represented by the Minister for Justice, is very cosmopolitan. I wOnder why he does not feel disadvantaged by that. I feel that I am disadvantaged. My constituents attempt to vote in a State election and they are told that their names are not on the roll. On the Federal roll for my area, there were about 1200 people more than there were on the State roU at the last election.. Those people have been disfranchised by the Government's decision not to have one electpral card. I hope that this matter is reconsidered seriously. The reasons given by the former Minister for Justice for going onto a one-card system were easily understood and made a good deal of sense. This Minister, in putting forward ridiculous reasons for not continuing with the system, is doing himself a grave disservice. The second issue I raise is the need to have anti-discrimination bodies in Queensland similar to those that exist in all other States except Western Australia. The Commonwealth Racial Discrimination Act of 1975 provided for the establishment of the Office of the Com­ missioner for Community Relations. Its establishment was supported by the Australian Parliament. However, apparently it was not supported by Queensland. This State does not believe that the Commonwealth has any jurisdiction whatever i^i anti-discriminatioft matters in Queensland. I beUeve that Queensland will be arguing before the High Court that the Commonwealth's Racial Discrimination Act does not cover the inabiUty of Aborigines to biiy land in North Queensland. .., As I have said, aU other States except Western Australia have their own anti-discrimination laws. New South Wales, for Instance, has an antl-dlscrlminatlon Act, which came into force on 1 June 1977. It renders discriminatipn unlawful on the grounds of race, sex and marital status in employment, education, the provision of goods and services, accommodation, aiid access to places and vehicles. That Act created the Office of the Counsel of Equal Oppor­ tunity, who investigates complaints conceming unlawful discrimination. If he cannot obtain results, the matter is referred to the antl-dlscriininatlon board, which then conducts its own inquiry. On the one hand, the Queensland Government says that it cannot accept Federal legis­ lation m this area, that It wUl go to court and oppose the alleged right of the, Federal Govemment to legislate; on the other, it says that It does not need its own legislation. Queensland should have Its own anti-discrimination laws and bodies. The passing of anti­ discrimination laws and the establishment of anti-discrlmuiation bodies would give, a lead to the community. Human rights and fundamental freedoms are very much a State responsibUity. The Queensland Govemment should therefore be playing an important role by outlawing discrim­ ination. It should be supporting the CommonweaUh's endeavours Instead of working against them. Anti-discrimination legislation in other States has achieved many positive results. If people have access to anti-discrimination laws and bodies, they have rights in fact as well as inlaw. It is useless for the Government to tell migrants, for example, that the law treats them in the same way as h treats others, when migrants do not have equal rights under the law and have to resort to anti-dlscrlmination bodies to obtain such rights. Anti-discrimination legislation and bodies are the means of securing and preserving equal opporturihy; That is their role; h is not to give an advantage to one class of persons, be they women, Aborigines or migrants. Such laws and bodies should preserve equal opportunity for all. I could give many examples to Illustrate the need for anti-discrimination legislation. To cite just one—people suffering frorii a physical Impairment are denied access to education, Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3303 accommodation and public facilities. They are even denied access to restaurants. They should have the right to object to this lack of access, and a body should be set up to take action on then behalf. Many women have complained to me that they have experienced difficulty in obtaining credit, When they have made af^Ucations for loans, they have been met whh. ehher blanket refusals or demands to pay higher deposits than are gerierally sought. Some are asked to obtain male guarantors. Such demands are discriminatory and should riot be permitted. A woman's application for credit should be treated on its merits. When I was a public servant I worked side by side with competent, professional women who were earning high salaries and had secure employment. Although they had ample funds out of which they could pay a substantial deposit on a home, they could not obtain a loan. In many work-places migrants and women who have been employed longer in a job than Other people are being laid off first when there is a recession. That is a form of discrimination. They ought to have a right to object. There are mariy examples, in the Public Service and elsewhere, of women not being sent to training courses arid not being promoted because of the belief that other employees will not work under a female boss. Studies prove that this is not so. All of these people should have access to some sort of body. They should be able to say, "This Is discriminatory and I want the matter examined. If I am correct, I want redress." The State Government cannot have It both ways. It cannot say that it does not support the right of the Federal Govemment to legislate on these matters in this State yet maintain that there is no need fOr it, that it can be done through Queensland legislation. People must have rights in fact as well as In law. The law. In theory, treats everybody eqiially but there Is no equality in access to the courts. They are not always sins of commission that constitute discrimination; they are also sins of' omission. Since the introduction of the Victprian legislation on 3 April 1978, 661 complaints have been lodged. Most of them related to credit for women, accommodation and advertising. Once U was made kriOwn that an employer should not Insert an advertisement reading "Men wanted" when a person of eithei- sex could do the job, the number of complaints dropped froiri 25 per cent to 3 ot 4 per cent. The good thing about having laws in any society is that the law-abiding citizen accepts the spirit of the legislation and in doing so conforms to what the legislation prpvides. That is why we need anti-discrimination laws. When people are told that It Is against the law to discrithinate against migrants, women or Aborigines^ they will accept the spirit of the legislation. I hope that the Government wiU look at that matter. ' In the short time left to me today I shoUld like to raise some other issues. We should be looking at the problems I deal with from day to day. The Minister has said that he is very proud of what the Small Claims Tribunal Is doing. I agree with him. h is a worthwhile Instrumentality. I am becoming increasingly^ frustrated because of the number of people vvho come to me because they, cannot jget.fhdr money even though they have had a favourable decision froin the referee. They wait and wait. They have tpfipd I out from _^ their local member, that they can enforce the judgment through the Magistrates Court. But what happens? The shyster firms, particularly buUding firms, change their name and disappear once they have 20 or 30 decisions against them. Nobody can then obtain any redress from them. I, would like the Minister to look into that matter. - Another issue I am concerned about is legal aid. It is becoming increasingly difficult for people to get justice under the law. It has alvvays been available to the rich. Legal aid has been made available tp the very poor—and I stress, "the very poor". Unfortunately, there are many categories above "the very poor" that require legal aid but cannot get It. The State Government is not putting enough resources into legal aid. Other State Governments are doing much more. The only funds going Into legal aid In Queensland are commg through the Public Trust Office. Free legal aid funding over the past eight years has amounted to $500,000. .. The Public Tnistee contributes an average of about $60,000 a ^ear, whh the other money commg from the funds of the Queensland Law Society—^through interest on trust accounts—and the commonwealth Govemment. In 1977-78 the total funding amounted to W.4m. In, 1980-81,:,when $5.5ffi was available, $500,000 was not spent. If Inflation is taken mto account, It is obvious ^bat insufficient money is going into the fund. I beUeve 3304 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates) that it is time we looked at the crheria under which legal aid Is funded. A different approach should be adopted. I beUeve that the Commonwealth system, which aUows $67 for the applicant, $15 for his wife and $10 for each chUd, with a deduction bemg made for mortgages, etc., denies legal aid to a lot of people who require it. I am impressed that the Legal Aid Commission of Victoria Intends to aboUsh the means test. There wlU not be a cut-off pOint, but Instead the commission wlU ddermine whether a person can afford to pay the fuU cost of a private lawyer. His dlgiblUty wiU be assessed on his assets and disposable Income. (Time expired.)

Mr INNES (Sherwood) (3.26 p.m.): The matter I flrst wish to canvass this aftemoon is fundamental to the departments administered by the Minister, namely, the independence of the judiciary. There is a sense of concem, which is certainly fdt by the legal pro­ fession in this State, about the fundamental constitutional principle under our system of govemment and law that the judiciary must be independent. That sense of disquiet, no doubt like all things in the world, is based upon some realities and some imagined attacks, but I want to deal briefly with some of the matters which have been the focal points of that disquiet. In broad terms there have been increasingly frequent allegations in relation to the administration of criminal law in our courts. The suggestion is that it Is a waste of time for the poUce to place people before the courts as either the punishment wiU be Insufficient or they will be let off on some technicality; whatever those two phrases might mean. I will explore them a little later. There is a broad suggestion that magistrates and judges will fail in their duty to administer the law and, of course, to perform their pubUc duties m deciding bdween the individual and the protection of sodety. There were also reports, which were given pubUcity In newspapers circulated throughout the State, of aUegations that there was some political jockeying to Influ^ice the appomtment of the next Chief Justice of Queensland. The Premier took me to task for having the audacity to ask a question relating to his timing in making a statement about the reform of judicial superannuation at the time when he had an appeal pending before the FuU Court. Those matters are not logically connected, and I wish to make some comment about them so that aU members of the Committee, including Ministers, and the pubUc can be mmdful of some of the very important and underlying matters to which these pdnts are addressed. The first relates to the administration of the criminal law. It is not beneficial to our system of law or our system of constitutional government to continue to have a judiciary that is seen to be failing in its duty, so people must either put up or shut up, because if it is baseless it does nobody any service to continue to make false accusations about the failure of that part of the constitutional process. Mr R. J. Gibbs: Can I take it from your d)mments that you obviously express concem that Mr Justice Andrews could be appointed as Chief Justice? Mr INNES: I am not going to found any mmours that have been suggested in the Press, but comments such as those that have been made about some jockeying by somebody—^the person was not identified—should be avoided In the corred admmistration of our type of government. It is something that the Govemment should seek to avoid. The first matter is probably the broadest and most significant. I refer to the attacks, in broad terms, for failure to administer the criminal law. In the eyes of the public, courts are about crime. Pepple forget that about 80 per cent of the work of superior courts involves.civil proceedings. People concentrate on judges, juries and prisoners. I am glad to note, and to be Informed, in recent times that the senior levels in the Police Force have rejected the suggestion that the courts are not administering the law and performing their duty, or giving adequate punishment. Unfortunately, some members of this Chamber do make, and have made, that allegation from time to time. I have no doubt that some members of the PoUce Force—obviously, they would be very few in number—use the handy excuse that It is a waste of time to bring people to task because the courts dther will not convict or wiU give a light sentence. Firstly, it is no part of a policeman's job to dedde whether a punishment is adequate; that is a judidal function. A poUceman's job is done, and weU done. If he, for good Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3305 reason, brings offenders to task and puts them before a court. That is all that a poUce­ man is bound to do; that is his bounden duty and what he should concentrate on. For him to act as judge and jury and to say, "I wUl not put somebody before the court because the punishment will be inadequate" is to completdy misconceive his function. In fact, it gives the lie to his function and responsibiUties In society. His job is to put the offenders before the court. If there has to be any correction, first of all, the judiciary should make it. If there is to be any correction in the legislation, the Legislature can register its concern about the type of offence by increasing the maximum punishment avaUable. Secondly, there is the suggestion that people are let off on technicaUties. If that happens, first and foremost the deficiency is not in the judiciary or the magistracy but in the Legislature. It is a primary principle of our system of law and of our Constitution that if one wants to jeopardise somebody or to put somebody behind bars or to visit somebody with a criminal penalty for an offence, then one has to express the offence in clear terms. If the Legislature fails in its job of expressing what it intends in clear- cut terms, where aU the "t's" are crossed and the "i's" are dotted, then it should not blame the judiciary for leaving the loopholes that some people suggest exist. Indeed, frequently the ParUament has to amend Acts to rectify deficiencies in legislation. So. it is the fault of Parliament if it does not stitch up the law to cover the situation that it intends to cover, and members should recognise that. Thirdly, serious offenders are usually dealt with in the District Court or the Supreme Court. The dedsion is invariably made by a judge and jury. So, it is 12 members of the commuriity who decide the facts and whether a person is guUty. The only function that a judge has to perform is to ensure that the jury is properly instracted on the law and that the rales of evidence are api>lied. Then, if a jury convlds, a judge has to dedde what the punishment will be. The responsibUity for deciding whether a person is guilty of a serious crime or offence rests with 12 members of the community rather than with a member of the judiciary. If, of course, there is no evidence at all upon which a person could be put upon his tnal, then the judge can direct as a matter of law that the jury and the prisoner be discharged or aUow the Crown to enter a nolle prosequi. If there is adequate evidence to convict a person, then he will be judged by the jury. If there Is any inadequacy it might be that it is in the source of a frequent complaint. Increasingly members on both sides of the Chamber say that they have been told by police officers that it is a waste of time putting a person on trial, that some smart legal trick will get him off, or that there is some other reason why they should not do their duty and bring an alleged offender to trial. An extensive inquiry into the enforcement of the criminal law by the poUce has been conducted in Queensland. The Lucas committee of inquiry comprised an eminent police officer, an eminent judge and an eminent criminal barrister. In fact, so eminent is the barrister that the Attorney-General, Police Minister and Chief Minister of another State, a man who is likely to know something about the law himself, has consulted him on matters of very great legal significance on a national scale. Of course, I refer to Mr Des Sturgess. It seems that prophets are not recognised in thdr own land. Mr Sturgess would have been a significant participant in the work of the committee but its weighty and Important work has languished, gone unrecognised and unimplemented for some four to five years. One of the most frequent reasons why people are discharged in the courts is that there is a conflict of credibility of evidence. The jury is not sufficiently satisfied when the contest is bdween testimonies by the police as to what the accused said and the suggestion by the defence that he did not say it. The jury is not left with that degree of belief in the veracity—the credibiUty—of the police that it will make a conviction. In fact, h is increasingly difficult to obtain a conviction on the testimony of the police alone. I suggest that the remedy to that lies particularly with the administration of the Police Force. If members of the Police Force feel that convictions should have been recorded which have not been recorded, particularly in a case which Involves a contest of credibility, then perhaps the bold steps suggested by the Lucas committee should have been carried out and the recommendation that there should be tape-recording of Interviews 1376&-109 3306 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

should have been implemented. To achieve that independence of testimony the Lucas committee was prepared to recommend an extension of powers of the Police Force provided that the primary protection of accused persons was extended. What is gpod enough for the investigation of police officers, where tape-recording is frequent, if not almost the norm, and what is good enough for the most complex fraud cases in which tape-recording of interrogation is usual, is surely good enough for the alleged offenders of othei- crimes. In fact, as I recall it, in those cases where tape-recorded evidence has been put forward. Say in cases of charges against police officers, there has not been an occasion when the recording has been challenged. The usual claim of some members of the Police Force is that people will allege that the tapes have been tampered with. However, there has been no case where the suggestion has been made, Some other explanation of what was said has been offered, such as that it was not meant or it was part of a double bluffi Very seldom, if ever, has there been any allegation that the tapes have been tampered with. If, therefore, these criticisms can be made of the court system, and if In fact it is found that critidsm is directed because the police faU to get convictions or because policemen believe it is not worth even bringing a charge, one would suggest that if is not so much the court system that has to be looked at but indeed the law enforcement officers themselves. It is the function of the police that has to be reviewed. A blueprint for such a review is available in the Lucas report. Unfortunately and tragically—and I speak both as a former policeman and as a barrister—the incidence of police officers finding themselves before the courts, and even convicted, is not rare. Therefore there is perhaps, unfortunately, good ground why h can be suggested in particular cases that the police might not be telling the truth. ,A tape- recording, by which a jury could compare voices with voices heard in the witness box, might be a very strong weapon in the hands of the Police Force. I suggest that it would be an overwhelming weapon for police officers who were telling the truth to have their testimony accepted. It is certainly worth a try. We cannot have our system going under because of the false suggestion that the court system—the third tier of government—is wrong or that the independent arbiter over all of the community is wrong. Rather should we be looking at the most frequent source of those complaints and seeking to rectify the law enforcement procedures themselves. At the very least, it is worth a go. If the trial is not successful, we have lost nothing. In my opinion, however, we would be likely to find that convictions would increase, the public respect of the Police Force would Increase and many of the allegations and criticisms of the judicial system would disappear because the blame is, in my view, being wrongly attributed. As I say, that is probably the most serious and growing aspect. The honourable member for Barron River has from time to time suggested, in common with people from the other side of the Chamber, that the courts are not doing their job. However, it is interesting to note that it was the independence of the judiciary that exonerated him when criticisms were made falsely, viciously and baselessly by the Opposition last year, which became the source of a supplementary report of the Australian Royal Commission of Inquiry into Drugs. There was a reference by the Govemment; there was an exoneration of the member for Barron River, who on occasions has criticised the courts for their task. However, only because the judiciary has that respect and that independence can he thereafter say, "I was exonerated by an authority whose word people accept and in whose word people have respect." In the same way, members of the Opposition have frequently crhicised the operations of the judiciary, but they found themselves the subject of exoneration in the one part in attacks by the Premier on some of their number, but fell foul because the Leader of the Opposition and the member for Cairns found themselves roundly condemned by somebody with the authority of a judge in that Royal Commission of Inquiry into Drugs. Anybody wishing to denigrate the Independence of the judiciary thereby removes from himself the independence of the protection of the law. If people no longer trust the independence of the judiciary, they wlU no longer accept an exoneration of one of their number. If the judiciary becomes poUtical, we can no longer put our trust In h and we can no longer carry that badge of exoneration of a royal commission or even of a criminal court when the protection we seek is granted by the court; so It Is absolutely fundamental to our constitutronal system that there be independence of the judiciary. Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3307

When crhidsms of the type which appear in the newspapers are made, the Government must be mindful of them. When speaking in this debate the Minister for Justice and Attomey-General quickly and properly rejected the suggestion and mmours that were reported in the newspapers about an attempt to influence him. He Is the person who is the head of the bar and who is most intimately connected with the operations of the legal systems in this State as it affects any recommendations that he will take to the Government in the future. That is the way it must be. The Government can take pride from the fact that the judiciary have been independent, and certainly in recent decades, have not had thdr reputations interwoven with political fortunes. That is the way it must remain. Just as justice must be seen to be done, the Govemment must be seen to act impeccably in matters as fundamental as the independence of the judiciary. The other matter that I wish to refer to is one that I consider to be unfortunate. The Premier has given me the rap for suggesting that his timing was wrong in bringing up the matter of judges' superannuation. I do not resile from that. I made the suggestion not to make war with the Premier but to suggest that in our constitutional situation one has to be very careful and proper about the way one deals with the system. It is not a good thing if one talks about the fundamental conditions under which the judiciary are appointed at a time when one is involved in a case that is pending. The realities are that the judicial superannuation scheme came under attack quite wrongly. The judges were recruited under certain conditions. The superannuation of judges in Queensland is the lowest in the Common­ wealth. They receive a 40 per cent pension as opposed to 50 per cerit in other States. They are entitled to expect the continuation of the conditions under which they were recmited. A typical example is the case where a sUk with a large practice accepted an appointment to the bench. On the day that he accepted that appointment, his own superannuation ceased. (Time expired.)

Mr SIMPSON (Cooroora) (3.48 p.m.): Justice is dear to everyone, especially in a free country such as Australia. In a democracy people elect representatives to make laws and mles. Law enforcement bodies carry them out. Those persons who transgress the law appear before courts of justice. Queensland is very fortunate to have a high standard of justice. The system is never perfect. Sometimes individuals consider themselves to be wronged. I have records of dissatisfied constituents who believe that they have been wrongly dealt with, perhaps not by the courts but by solicitors. In fact, one elector is concerned that his own solicitor has not represented him adequately. Solichors are required to keep their own house in order and their own profession in line. That, of course, is difficult to do in any profession, particularly the legal profession. The members of the profession should always be critical of themselves and should try to find ways of solving the problems. The Minister administers a whole host of Acts. They are so numerous that it is necessary to look at them constantly with a view to putting some Of them to rest. Sunset sections should be inserted in many Acts. The Insertion pf such sections and the repeal of certain Acts have been undertaken periodicaUy by successive Ministers for Justice in this State. Among other things, the Minister is responsible for the control of entertainment equipment. I am gravely concerned at the effect of pin-ball machines on young people. 1 look upon them as being in the same category as the one-armed bandits—the poker machines. They are certainly addictive. Mr Davis: No, they are not. Mr SIMPSON: Does not the honourable member believe they are addictive? Mr Davis: No. Mr SIMPSON: Isn't he addicted to them? Mr Davis: No. Mr SIMPSON: I am pleased to hear that. I am also concerned at the fact that pin-ball parlours are places in which young people are exposed to drugs. ; ' 3308 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

Mr Milliner: Why pin-ball machines?

Mr SIMPSON: They are found in entertamment centres that are frequented by young people. Unscrupulous persons who push drugs are aware of that. I had hoped that Opposition members would share my concern for our young people; but apparently they do not. I am gravely concerned at the prospect of having our young people introduced to drugs. I should like to think that the Minister wiU not allow the proUferation of pin-ball parlours in this State. To turn to another matter—a very large number of conveyancing transactions occur on the rapidly developing Sunshine Coast. This development has brought whh it a proliferation of real estate agencies. Many of the persons who conduct those businesses have little or no experience in real estate and conduct their operations under the accreditation of a sleeping partner who is registered. Real estate agents' trust accounts should be controlled strictly in relation both to conveyancing transactions and to leasing and property management. The system is being abused, in spite of the fact that spot checks are carried out on such trust accounts. I have received complaints from tenants who, although they have met aU the requirements imposed by the landlord, have not had their bonds returned to them. Real estate agents should be accountable for such omissions on the part of the landlords for whom they act. Such accountabUity should be provided by way of the agents' trust accounts.

Earlier in this debate reference was made to elections. Totally unjustified crhicism has been levelled at the compUation of the electoral rolls. As the criteria for enrolment vary between the State and the Commonwealth, particularly in relation to the period of residence at a given address, obviously the enrolments in the respective roUs will differ. Furthermore, the systems of checking and administering the electoral rolls vary. For these reasons, the number of electors on the State roH is less than on the Commonwealth roll. Mr Mackenroth: Are you saying that that makes up for the whole difference?

Mr SIMPSON: Whether it accounts for the total or not cannot be proved. I am merely indicating that it is obviously a reason for the discrepancy. Mr Mackenroth interjected.

Mr SIMPSON: The honourable member is having great difficulty in trying to comprehend what is going on. I know a number of cases of people who shift their place of residence, after only a month or two and are legitimately enrolled on the Commonwealth roU but not on the State roll. They obviously account for a large proportion of the people who do not appear on the State roll. Mr Mackenroth: Wouldn't those people stiU be on the roll for the area they left, because it takes five months for the State Electoral Office to take them off the roU?

Mr SIMPSON: It does not account for the thousands that come to Queensland from interstate. Mr Mackenroth: What you are saying is wrong.

Mr SIMPSON: Then the honourable member is still having trouble. There is room for improvement, under the Elections Act, to make h simpler for people to give a clear and concise indication of how they want to vote. Mr Mackenroth: First past the post?

Mr SIMPSON: No. I do not favour first-past-the-post voting because that is not a fair indication of people's ultimate preference if they cannot have their first preference. Mr Davis: It used to be your policy. Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3309

Mr SIMPSON: It is the poUcy of the National Party and the Liberal Party to have preferential voting. In my opinion it should be implemented in both local govemment and State Govemment elections. The quicker we move towards that situation, the better. We need to give people a clearer indication on how to go about casting a vote in the poUing booth. I know that some information is given but it is not of sufficient size for some people, such as the elderly, who do not know exactly for whom they are voting. They do not know that if they make a mistake they can get another ballot-paper. No prior information is given to them on what the ballot-paper looks like. The honourable member for South Brisbane referred to equal rights for individuals and equal right of access to health and justice, and, I would suggest, representation. Like the United States, Britain and Canada, Queensland is somewhat enUghtened in regard to providing equality of representation in elections. Under this system, areas which have communications problems have fewer electors. Queensland does not go far enough in this regard. The weighting is approximately two and a half to one in Queensland whilst it is seven to one, three to one, four to one and five to one in Western Australia, the United Kingdom, the United States and Canada. If the people lose that equality as they did federally, it would be a travesty of justice. The Minister is responsible for the Boy Scouts and Girl Guides movements. I com­ mend the work they do in training future citizens and community leaders. The Baden-Powell system teaches by play and example. It develops teamwork and fosters dependence on one another as well as independence in the field without all the mod cons. Mr Davis: What has that to do with Justice?

Mr SIMPSON: The honourable member obviously does not know the Minister's respon­ sibilities. If he listened, he would realise that one of the Minister's respwnsibilities is the oversight of the scouting and guiding movement in this State. Although the honourable member does not hold with organisations of that type, I do, and I support them strongly because of the wonderful work that they do. It is very pertinent that the Opposition should object to my remarks, because if one wants to test the water, as it were, in relation to democratic rights and the development of the free individual throughout the world, one finds that scouting and guiding is not permitted in Communist countries and in countries under the control of socialist dictatorships, in which honourable members opposite would lie down comfortably. Mr Hooper: What about Fasdst dictatorships?

Mr SIMPSON: I know that the honourable member likes them, and the scouting and guiding movement will not be found in them, either. The honourable member believes only in pushing people down and not giving them the opportunity to develop as individuals. Thus he finds himself aUgned with those countries that do not allow individual freedoms, countries in which the scouting and guiding movement is not considered desirable and it not fostered. The protection of business names is important, and certain popular names can improve the profitability of business. The word "Noosa" seems to be something of a signature and attracts many business people who seem to think it wiU give them a favourable advantage. It is tacked tp the beginning or end of many business names, even some that are nowhere near that part of Queensland. One also sees "Sunshine Coast", 'Suncoast" and a number of other variations included in a large number of business names. I can understand the difficulty faced by those who administer the business names section of the Minister's portfolio in ensuring that there is no duplication of business names that might confuse the public. Those officers have gained a great deal of expertise through experience, and I commend them for the work they are doing. At least one does not see now the large number of businesses with the same name that was so confusing before the Government moved into this area. In my opinion, a register should be kept of aU people who own property, and it should include the names and addresses of company directors. Such a register should include leasehold land, although the Minister for Justice is responsible only for freehold 'and. Once such a register was drawn up the Government could determine what further 3310 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates) action it should take. Concern has been expressed about the purchase of very productive land on the Darting Downs and in some other areas by non-residents who do not always keep the land free of weeds or in production. , It could weU be desirable tp impose a capital gains tax on the profit from the sale of properties owned by foreign interests. That might allay some of the fear about vwhat is called foreign ownership but which I believe should more properly be called ownership by people who are not resident in this country. The Minister has many responsibilities, the most Importani of which is administering the law in this State. I commend him and his officers for the way in vvhich they do theh job and the judiciary for the independent way in which it operates. May they contmue to uphold that high tradhion.

Mr MACKENROTH (CAiatsworth) (4.5 p.m.): In listening to the debate on the Estimates of the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General, we hear about the smarties and corporate crooks in Queensland. I often wonder whether Minister for Justice is the proper title. In Queensland, and probably in every other State of Australia, many people spend their time devising schemes whereby they can rip off other people. If they spent half the time that they devote to devising these schemes to running legitimate businesses, they would probably make more money. In today's world, those people have to try to get their money the easy way by ripping off other people. Today, I wish to speak about some people who are ripping off other persons in Brisbane who are trying to find rental accommodation. I refer to three companies— Homdocators, Compusearch and House & Flat Rental Service. A search of the records reveals that Homdocators is owned by a company called Rentex Inc. (Brisbane) Pty Limited. Compusearch is also owned by Rentex Inc. The third company. House & Flat Rental Service, is registered in the name of Trevor Bell of 16 Copeland Street, Milton. The directors of the first two companies, Homdocators and Compusearch, are Robert F. Podosky of 4/215 Coronation Drive, Milton, Mark H, Thomson of 8 Evans Court, Toorak, Victoria, and Tiriiothy W. AUan of 14/136 Miskin Street, Toowong, Queensland. Back in 1976 the Govemment changed the law relating to these types of business people. It provided that a licensed real estate agent had to be employed in these organisations. Trevor John Bell of House & Flat Rental Service is a licensed real estate agent in Queens­ land, but none of the three directors of Rentex Inc. is registered as a licensed real estate agent in Queensland. I would ask the Corporate Affairs Commissioner's Office to have a very close look at that company to see whether it has a licensed real estate agent in hs employ. If it has not, perhaps that is one way in which that company could be closed down. The registration of the company Homdocators was not renewed whh the Corporate Affairs Commissioner's Office in June this year, but it is still operating at 71 Brunswick Street. When a person wants to rent a house, he looks at the classified section of "The Courier-MaU". On any day one can look in "The Courier-MaU" and see advertisements for houses to rent by Homdocators, Compusearch and House & Flat Rental Service., People are bdng forced into the position where they have to go to these companies to try to get rental accommodation. Before they are given details abput one house, they have to hand over $40. A young man went to one of those companies last week and pajid $40 to g^t details of houses avaUable for renting on the southside, of Brisbane. He received a list of telephone numbers which I checked in the Brisbane telephone directoryi and found that most were the numbers Of Ucenced real estate agents. Some of the names that I; discovered are Kev Bird Pty Ltd, Highgate Reality, Anna Griffiths Real Estate, Hellas Real Estate, Focal Real Estate, L. J. Hooker at Tingalpa, Taringa and Morrihigside and Stewart lanies & Co. I rang those companies to check if Homdocators had plagiarized their listings in any way and discovered that the companies are listing with Homdocators properties given to them by the owners. The reason is to save money on advertising.,,, People who wish to rent a house have to go to one of the three companies and pay $40 in order to ascertain if any Brisbane real estate agents have houses to rent. So a future tenant is paying $40 to one of those three companies and then the real estate agent that lists the property with Homdocators, or ehher of the other two companies, Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3311 receives a fee from the landlord for renting the property. In fact, the real estate agent does nothing at all. The people at both ends are paying the money. That is a very bad business practice. Last jveek I rang the REIQ and asked what U thought about the operations of these companies ^iiji Brisbane. The REIQ disagrees tptally with their operations and the charging of a search fee. However, most of the agents that I have named are members of the REIQ i wUl send a copy of this speech to the REIQ and ask that body to lopk very closely, at its own members. I have a great deal of respect for the REIQ, which does a very good job. It has a code of ethics and if its members stick, to that then the real estate agency business in Brisbane—7— Mr Lane: Are you a member of the REIQ or the licenced real estate—— Mr MACKENROTH: If the Minister yjould only listen he would reaUse that I am referring to-.— ; ,. , Mr Lane: I wondered what your vested interests were. Mr MACKENROTH: I have no vested interests whatsoever. All I am trying to db is save young people their $40.' Mr Larie: That Is all right. XW can proceed now. Mr MACKENROTH: If h is aU right with the Minister, I wlH proceed. The contract that is used by Homdocators enables a person to rent a house in Canada without paying the $40. The people affected cannot even afford to rent a house in Australia; how on earth wpuld they get to Canada to rent a house?, That is ridiculous. These types of companies are able to e^ist in Queensland because the 1976 amendment allowed them to use the telephone number of a licenced real estate agent and to charge $40. Those business practices should be looked at very closely. Yesterday's "Courier-Mail" contained 104 advertisements for houses to rent. Of those, six were inserted by builders who wanted people to buy houses. Twenty of the advertisements were genuine and 78 out of the 104 were from either Homdocators, Compusearch or House & Flat Rental Service. That gives an idea of their control over the rental market. However, I don't believe that the ads are genuine or that they have houses to let. Because,lof a complaint I received a couple of weeks ago, last week I commenced to look into those companies. Yesterday I was telephoried by a young lady who has been advised by her landlord that she must leave her rented premises. On Saturday she went to Homdocators and paid $40. She received six listings for houses on the southside of,Brisbane. AH of those properties had already been let tOi other tenants. She returned on Sunday and recdved 10 listings, aU of which had already been let. That company is simply giving out dead listings, which means that the people are being ripped off. These people are wasting money in having to go to the VaUey every day fo try to find a house to rent. I do not see any need for the existence of these types of agencies in Queensland. The Minister should look very clPsely at what he can do to stPp them operating. In most Instances the landlord pays a real estate agent to find a suitable tenant. That should be the pradice that prevails. We should , all be attempting to ensure that that happens. I wish to speak now about the Minister's responsibility for elections in Queensland. That subject has already been mentioned by a number of members today, and 1 probably this is the first opportunity that many of us have had since the last State election to raise problems that we have seeri. One of the thirigs that shoiild happen at fhe next State election is that returning'officers in every electorate shotild be given timei off vrork to control the mnnirig of the elections. Many retuming Officers work in the Public Service during the day arid perform their electoral work at night-time. I might state at this stage that I am not speaking about the returning officer in my eledorate, who during the two, eledions at vyhich I have been a candidate has taken at least three weeks off work in order to car;-y out his duties efficiently. One hears of returning officers who alliow people to come to their homes only between the hours.of 6 and 0-30 p.m. to cast a vote before election day. In other words, people are given half an hour. Such things have to be looked at very dosely. Returning officers have to be told they can nave at least two weeks off before an election to organise all the electoral visitor votes and 3312 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates) to ensure that the election is run very smoothly in all electorates. We must also ensure that after election day the returning officer has adequate time off, whether h be a week or 10 days, to ensure that the ballot is counted. Results would then be known much more quickly. After the last State election, it was reported in "The Courier-Mail" of 3 December 1980 that the then Minister for Justice and Attomey-General (Mr Lickiss) ordered returning officers to speed up the counting of votes. In the electorate of Everton, the returning officer, who was a pubUc servant, arrived at work at 9 a.m. and was informed by the Electoral Office that he had to return home immediately, proceed with the count and not stop couriting until it was finished. The election resuh in Everton was very close. My understandmg is that Mr Lickiss was running for Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party at the ballot the followmg day and he felt that Brian Burke would vote for him if he won Everton. That was one way of getting the vote in Everton counted very quickly. The returning officer finished the count at 2.30 in the moming and had to be back at work as a pubUc servant at 9 o'clock. How ridiculous! The Government should look very closely at what is expected of returnmg officers. Another matter that the Minister and the electoral office should consider is the staff employed on election day to handle the work in the polling booths. Many people take on the job once every three years; some do it at each election, which is three times in a three- year period. However, many of them are not aware of their responsibilities. Probably every honourable member could tell a story about someone who has been turned away and told that he cannot vote although he may have been entitled to a section 35A vote. The person working at the poUing booth should have been informed of that. Somebody from a city electorate who was at the Gold Coast may have been turned away because the returning officer was to lazy to ensure that he or she received an absentee vote. Some 150 votes were cast in the Chatsworth electorate by people who did not live in Chatsworth. Obviously, no attempt was made to ensure that those people received the vote to which they were entitled. The Government should endeavour to train people who work on election day, AUhough they are not paid much money, they are paid, and they should do the job efficiently. The returning officers in the individual electorates should ensure that people are given wrhten instmctions and that they read them so that they know exactly what their duties are. The state of electoral rolls has been raised today by two members. The member for Cooroora stated that Queensland has a lower number of people on the State rolls because the Federal rolls take into account different residential qualifications. That was stated previously by the former Minister for Justice (Mr Lickiss). I think it has been stated by the present Minister and a number of other members in this Chamber. It is ridiculous that the difference between the Commonwealth and State roUs lies wholly and solely in residential qualifications. If one looks dosely at the residential qualifications, one finds that to be included on the Federal roll a person must be a resident for one month, but he must be a resident for three months to be included in the State roll. Our first concern should be for people who turn 18. In most cases, when a person attains the age of 18 years he has already been living with his parents for more than three months. He qualifies automaticaUy for inclusion on the State and Federal rolls on the same day. If someone moved from my electorate of Chatsworth to the electorate of the member for Archerfield, after residing in the electorate of Archerfield for one month he would be qualified to be included in the Oxley Federal roll. If that person had completed his enrolment card for inclusion in the Federal roll, according to law he would be removed from the Bowman roll and placed on the Oxley roll. At that stage his name would not be removed from the Chatsworth electoral roll. After a three-month period he would apply to be included on the Archerfield roll and his name would then be removed from the Chatsworth roll. Therefore, the only people who are making up the difference in residential qualifications are people who are moving to Queensland from interstate. Are we to believe that 60 000 or 70 000 people are moving into Queensland in a two-month period? That is what the Government would have us believe if we accept the argument that is continually put forward about residential qualifications. It is a stupid argument that does not wear. Before the last State election I made a cross-check of the Federal rolls in ray electorate, that is, those for Moreton, Bowman and Griffith, with the State electoral roll for Chatsworth. Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3313

That exercise took me approximately a week. It revealed that 960 electors who were qualified to be on the Chatsworth electoral roll were not on it. Those people were not included because they were not aware that they should enrol by completing a second card. Mr Goleby: You should tell them. Mr MACKENROTH: I did. I wrote to most of those persons and called on a number of them. I paid a person to canvass my electorate to do a job that should have been done by the State Electoral Office. I wanted to ensure that my electoral rolls would be as up to date as possible for the last State election. It should not be my responsibiUty to pay someone to canvass my electorate to ensure that people are on the rolls. That should be the responsibiUty of the State Electoral Office. An examination of the statistics of the last State election reveals that the number of people who did not vote was 148 472. That is an indication of how out of date the Queensland electoral rolls are. If we look at the detaUs of State elections in Queensland since 1860, we will find that at the last election 88.93 per cent of the people who were qualified to vote did in fact vote. That was the lowest percentage since the election in 1944, which one must remember was during the Second World War. At the election on 8 May 1926, the figure was 88.72 per cent. We must return to 1926 to find an election at which a lower percentage of people voted in Queensland. That is an indication of the total disarray that the electoral rolls are in. I do not accept the decision of the joint Government parties to scrap the joint electoral roll. On 2 June 1981 the Minister said that he would scrap the joint roU. Only six days later, on 8 June, the Liberal Party State Convention adopted as its policy a joint Commonweahh/State electoral roll. I hope that the Minister explained to the delegates at the convention the reasons for his decision. He has not explained them to this Parliament. (Time expired.) Mr POWELL (Isis) (4.26 p.m.): I am always amazed at the fact that members of the Opposhion seem to know more about the poUcies of the Liberal and National Parties than about the poUcies of thdr own party. We on the Government side seem incapable of getting through the thick skulls of Opposition members the fact that we are not bound by decisions made outside Parliament. It is about time that Opposition members realised that members of the National and Liberal Parties make decisions as elected representatives and make up thdr minds on behalf of their electors. Mr Moore: We are not delegates. Mr POWELL; As the honourable member for Windsor said, we are not delegates of some party organisation. We know that members of the Labor Party are delegates of some outside, extra-parUamentary organisation and that in this place they are required to speak and vote on behalf of that organisation. From the speech of the previous speaker, we know that the poUcy of Opposition members is that they must speak out on behalf of the trade union movement. The difference between Opposition members on the one hand and National and Liberal Party members on the other is that members of the National and Liberal Parties represent their electorates first and vote accordingly. No Government department affects more people than that under the control of this Mmister. I address some comments to the services offered to the general pubUc in country areas by the offices of the clerks of the courts. It is fairly weU known that in country areas the clerk of the court's office is responsible for disseminating information put out by most Government departments. In the large provincial cities, most Govemment departments have their own office, but in the smaller towns the clerk of the court's office is responsible for assisting the public. The clerk of the court himself is responsible for a multitude of administrative matters. For example, the clerk of the court's office is the agent for the Housing Commission, h can be said that most employees who man the desk in the clerk of the court's office are courteous and are able to supply information that is sought. However, some cannot. AU I ask is that, as the clerk of the court's office is responsible for providing a particular service, the employees who attend to inquiries from the general public be able to answer whh some authority and with some knowledge of the Government department or the Act concemed. I receive numerous complaints from constituents in a provincial city In my electorate to the effect that the staff at the clerk of the court's office cannot answer questions. That Is 3314 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

not the fault of the employees behind the desk. They are being asked to provide answers to questions of which they have no background knowledge and in relation to which they have recdved no training. It is only logical that the clerk of the court's office should act as agent for the Housing Commission and other Government instramentaUties. That being so, the employees behind the desk should have some knowledge of what is going on in those instramentaUties. Nothing is more disconcerting for a person in desperate straits and in need of a Housing Commission home than to go to the office of the clerk of the court to get the necessary forms only to be asked a few questions by the young person behind the counter and be told, "I am sorry. You are not eligible," Surely the person requiring the Housing Commission home should be given the form and the opportunity of fiUing h out and handing it in. That might mean another piece of paper for the office to deal whh but people should not be treated in a summary fashion. This is happening. The Minister and his predecessors have received a number of letters from me concerning complaints about the offices of clerks of the court. It is interesting to note that there is no problem with the people behind the counters in the smaller offices. I have two of them in my electorate—one at Childers and one at Hervey Bay, Possibly because the towns are smaller the officers know the people and are much more friendly towards them whereas the officers in the larger towns are not. Rather than the officers, the system should be blamed. I should like a training scheme to be introduced so that the people who answer the questions have the knowledge and the common courtesy needed to deal with people. Some of the people who go into an office of the clerk of the Court have a psychological problem, and sometimes they are not terribly well educated. Behind the counters in these offices we should have trained people who can handle those persons correctly to prevent their becoming so frustrated and upset that they go looking for their member of Parliament to lodge a complaint. On behalf of the Subordinate Legislation COmmittee, of which I am chairman, I must say that the Minister has given us tremendous co-operation. I congratulate him and thank him for that. The work of the committee is not easy, and it is made all the more difficuh if we do not get co-operation. The Minister's co-operation has been exemplary. I thank him personally for that because it makes the task of the committee so much easier. The Minister is responsible for administering company legislation; Some time ago we passed some very complicated legislation. I think we are all concerned about the viability of companies. Almost daily—certainly weekly—I receive complaints from people who have been taken down by companies that have not honoured their promises. A recent instance concerned a person who paid for a double-decker bed that did not turn up. He found out that the company had gone into liquidation, and he lost his money. We should be tightening up the financial control of these companies. I accept the reasoning behind the legislation which aUows people to set themsdves up as a company to have a go. I would not like to see that stopped. Mr Burns: When a company is declared bankrupt the names appear in the "Public Notices" columns of the Press. The names and addresses of the directors would be helpful to let us know if the same blokes keep turning up. Mr POWELL: It might not be advisable to do that through the daily media but the department concerned ought to take note of those people. When they bob up again wanting to start up another company their credentials ought to be thoroughly investigated. Mr Burns: The Minister never produces a report for his department; it is the only department that does not produce a report to this Assembly. We might get one with all your detaUs. Mr POWELL: I do not think it is necessary to have all those detaUs published in a document, but there ought to be tighter control of such matters by the department. With the legislation we have there ought to be tighter control of the fly-by-night operations that cause so many problems. Members of this Assembly have spoken repeatedly about fly-by-night companies. The number of peoplp taken down by house- painting, roof-painting or cladding companies that move into a town is astounding. 1 cannot understand people who accept the bona fides of companies that do not belong to their own town. But that is another matter, and h probably comes under different Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3315 legislation. I am talking about the company that begins with a great burst of publicity and suddenly goes into liquidation. The management of such companies is at fault, but not necessarily through any desire to defraud. Bankruptcy can be cadsed by a number of circumstances, including the appointment of a person to a managerial position who ought never have taken on the job. Mr Moore: The problem is they have nothing to lose personally. That is the big problem. Mr POWELL: That is the problem; they have nothing to lose personally except their reputation. Mr Burns: But no-one knows it. Mr POWELL: A lot of people hold their reputation very highly indeed. They are the ones I am talking about. I am not talking about directors of companies who set out to defraud. Those who do that ought to be treated very harshly. However, those who set up a company and genuinely try to succeed but go broke because of circumstances are in a different position. Unfortunately, even in those circumstances a lot of other people are disadvantaged. The control over people setting up such companies ought to be tightened considerably. The Small Claims Tribunal comes under the Minister's portfolio. It is worthy of mention that Queensland was the first State to have a Small Claims Tribunal. It was introduced by a former Minister (Sir William Knox). It is disappointing to find that we in this Assembly are derogatory of such organisations and never congratulatory. The Small Claims Tribunal and its achievements ought to be brought to the attention of the public, because it does a tremendously good job. The cost of litigation today is probably higher than it has ever been, and most people shy away from challenging things in the courts because they know that it will cost them a lot of money. Even if a person wins he sometimes does not have costs awarded in his favour and, as a result, going to court is a very costly exercise. It is all very well for legal aid to be available, but not everybody is entitled to it. Quite often a person who is entitled to legal aid can institute litigation and adversely affect the ordinary hard-working person who, because of the means test, is ineligible for legal aid. In my view the Small Claims Tribunal is a step in the right direction towards removing that anomaly. If I am aggrieved by work for which I have paid, I can go to the Small Claims Tribunal and argue my case to the best of my ability before a magistrate and expect to get justice. That is what it is all about—expecting to get justice. We should be drawing to the attention of the public the success of thtt Small Claims Tribunal, the way it has operated and the way it has helped so many people who would not otherwise have been helped. The electoral rolls come under the Minister's portfolio. I think that every member of Parliament who looks fairly carefully at the electoral rolls knows that the names of many people on them ought not to be there. Before the last State election, a check was made of the rolls in my electorate. In the Woocoo Division, which is a very small division in my electorate, an astronomical number of people on the roll did not live in the area. I drew this matter to the attention of the previous Minister for Justice and Attorney-General, but I am not sure what happened about it. Clearly, a purge of the rolls is needed. A major door knock should be undertaken to ascertain whether the people on the rolls live at the addresses shown on the rolls. We hear about the ghosts that could be on rolls, Mr Moore: They don't vote.

Mr POWELL: Ghosts might have some difficulty in voting. I am concerned about the often-made statement that fictitious names are entered on rolls, and nobody checks them. It is possible for that to happen, but I hope that nobody in this place condones that practice. A major review certainly should be made of the electorar rolls. A survey needs to be undertaken to ascertain whether people on them are in fact real. An education program needs to be undertaken in Queensland to 3316 10 November 1981 *. Supply (Estimates) let people know that they must reside in an electorate for three months before they enrol. Three months is a perfectly legitimate period, in the light of what happened when the qualifying period was only one month. I do not support a joint Federal/State roll. The State Parliament should have control over its electoral rolls. Mr Burns: You agree that we should have control over redistribution?

Mr POWELL: The Parliament has complete control over redistribution in this State. It is interesting to note that nine of the 10 fastest-growing electorates whh the highest enrolments are represented in this State Parliament by National Party members. That has happened not by accident, but because the people have shown good sense in votmg for the National Party. The electorate of Woodridge is the only one of the top 10 eledorates not held by the National Party. A close examination reveals that in seven electorates enrolments are over quota, that is, they exceed the zone average plus the 20 per cent electoral weightage factor permitted under the State Elections Act. All of the seven electorates, that is, Albert, Caboolture, Cooroora, Fassifern, Landsborough, Peak Downs and Whitsunday, are held by National Party members. The accusation that has been made in this Parliament and in the media on a number of occasions that the National Party has some sort of gerrymander in Queensland is absolute nonsense. The facts just do not support it. I repeat that a major review of the electoral rolls needs to be undertaken to ensure that the people reside at the addresses shown on them. I shall conclude by making a few comments about the Licensing Commission, I have no axe to grind about the commission, except to say that an overall review of under-age drinking in licensed premises is needed. A number of people have drawn my attention to some of the hotels in my electorate that seem to condone under-age drinking. I have no sympathy for the licensees who condone, or for that matter the people who indulge in, under-age drinking. Queensland has a horrific road toll. The facts speak for themselves: over 50 per cent of road deaths are caused by the consumption of excess alcohol. Hotels that encourage young people to drink contribute heavily to the road toll. The Licensing Commission, through its agents both in the country and the city, ought to be far more strict on policing under-age drinking. The law provides that a person must be 18 years of age before he can drink in a public place; people under that age should be stopped from doing so. (Time expired.) Mr FITZGERALD (Lockyer) (4.46 p.m.): In rising to speak to the Estimates of the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General I would firstly remark on his comment that it is necessary for people in all walks of life to gain a greater understanding of the law. Since I have entered this place I have endeavoured to acquaint myself with some of the facets of life with which I had not previously come in contact. I did not have a great understanding of the law but it has been a great pleasure to be a member of the Minister's committee. I was very pleased and proud to see the completion of the magnificent new law courts building in George Street. Although some people may be overawed by the law, the building is a very large and pleasant one to look at. The building has provision for a number of judges' chambers and also for those who wiU work in the courts for many years to come. That buUding is a great investment in the law and an indication that the Government is certainly not running away from its responsibility to provide an independent judiciary that can function in reasonably pleasant surroundings. I agree with the Minister's sentiments that it would be very nice to have the means to introduce schoolchildren to the law. Like many other things, the law is held in great awe by many people who have not come in contact with it. Over a number of years the Police Department has tried to make its work better known to children. I think it has been of great advantage to that department that it has gone into schools and given lectures on such matters as road safety. A simUar scheme to introduce young people to the workings of the law would be of great advantage. If people later found themselves confronted with the law, whether they had contravened it or wished to seek legal redress through it, they would be more familiar whh It. I do not mean that people should Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3317 act as their own lawyers. I have a great respect for the legal profession, a greater respect than that held by many members opposite. If people were at ease with the law they would have a greater sense of achieving justice. I wish to mention a few matters regarding the Justice Department in my electorate. A recent Press release from the Minister for Justice stated that the Titles Office had been swamped by the unprecedented South-east Queensland development boom. The statement also said that the number of weekly transactions through the Titles Office was now far in excess of the number that were processed in the 1973-74 boom period. In January an average of 1 500 lodgements were made each day. Although approximately 85 per cent of them related to the release of transfers and mortgages, in 1973-74 the figure for the entire State was 1 325 a day or slightly more than 6 000 documents per week. The January figure for the southern division was almost 8 000, and January is normally a quiet month. The staff is working under a tremendous load. The people in the Toowoomba area are pressing for a branch of the Titles Office in their city. I understand their complaints are about securing registration through an overloaded Titles Office in Brisbane. There are branches of the Titles Office in Rockhampton and TownsviUe. Quhe obviously it would be an advantage to have an office in Toowoomba, which could provide a cheaper and more effident service. At the present time most solicitors forward the documents required to be lodged with the office of the Registrar of Titles by registered mail, at a cost of $7 per document. On an average, two or three documents are required to be lodged for each transaction. If an office was situated in Toowoomba, the documents could be lodged by the solicitor's clerk on the day of settlement or some short time thereafter. There is no doubt that that would be more efficient than the procedure now required. The Registrar of Titles provides more services than those I have referred to. Some of the other duties of the office are to maintain the title deeds of land, to change the names of registered proprietors, to register easements, mortgages, leases and the like and to hold registered plans. In the present age, when most business is conduded by computer, we should decentraUse the Titles Office. Banks have access to their head offices by pressing a couple of buttons on a console. Surely it Is not too much to ask that as soon as possible a branch of the Titles Office be located in Toowoomba. I realise that great pressure is being applied for an office to be situated at the Gold Coast, where there are probably more transactions taking place than in any other part of Queensland. However, speaking on behalf of the people in the Toowoomba area, I make a request for an office there. At present transactions handled by the Registrar of Titles are taking between four and six weeks, which sometimes causes inconvenience to solicitors and their clients. In more complicated matters registration takes some months to attend to. Again, that causes a great amount of inconvenience. If there was a branch of the office in Toowoomba, most of those problems would be overcome, because that decentraUsed office would not have the same work-load as the Brisbane office. Toowoomba is the business centre for the Darling Downs and the areas further west and also, to some extent, for the Lockyer Valley. On that basis it would appear to be sensible to base an office there. Toowoomba is one of the largest cities In Queensland. As I mentioned before, two other cities already have a Deputy Registrar of Thles. I strongly recommend that, if a Titles Office is situated in Toowoomba, an office of the Commissioner of Stamp Duties be situated nearby, as the officers from those sections work hand in hand. Ninety-nine per cent of the documents lodged with the Titles Office are required to be stamped. Most business transactions attract stamp duty. When registered plans go to the Titles Office there have been problems, particularly in relation to subdivisions. After land has been subdivided, plans are released and people buy off them. I strongly advise people against buying a block of land off a plan. The plan may show an access road. It may have been a road gazetted when Queensland was part of New South Wales. However, the purchaser may find that it goes straight up the side of a cliff or down a cliff. I realise that the Tities Office probably cannot be held responsible for that and that it falls to the local authorities to ensure that, when approvals are granted for subdivisions, the access Indicated can In fact provide physical access. I have been confronted with problems where subdivisions have been made below the range and people have not been able to get physical access to their property. They are buying off the plan and they do not have physical access to h. I suggest that the onus 3318 10 November 1981 be placed on the local authorities to inspect the road and to make sure that access is available before subdivision is allowed to take place. This procedure would have to be cleared through the Titles office, which would indicate that the local authority had considered the matter and confirmed that access was available. Since I have been elected to this Chamber I have discovered that justices of the peace can be nominated by thdr local member of Parliament. Mr Hooper: Didn't you even know that? How did you ever get into Parliament?

Mr FITZGERALD: No. Before I became a member of Parliament I was not very keen to find out how to become a JP. I am rather concerned that in an electorate such as Lockyer there is a total of 503 JPs—59 female JPs and 444 male JPs. I do not understand why there is such an imbalance in that distribution. Mr Burns: You have nominated all the men. Mr FITZGERALD: It has probably been my practice to nominate men. I would certainly like to nominate more women if they wish to be justices of the peace. While it is very necessary to have JPs Opposition Members interjected. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Powell): Order!

Mr FITZGERALD: I do not mind listening to a couple of Opposition members chirping. Justices of the peace carry out a very responsible job. Although very many JPs have been nominated in the past, a number of people want to become justices of the peace for particular reasons. Of course, the major reason is that in many instances JPs are required to witness documents. Another reason is a desire to fulfil some of the other functions of a JP. I commend the Minister for his suggestion that all JPs should be instracted in their role. I strongly suggest to any new JP that he attend a course of instruction, such as that which has been held in Toowoomba in recent years. A JP should have a very fine character, but he should also have some knowledge of the functions of a JP and how to fulfil them. JPs not only witness documents; in small towns in remote areas of the State two justices of the peace may be called upon to constitute a court when no magistrate or court offidal is available. The matters dealt with by JPs are relatively minor offences. For instance, if a person is charged with a simple offence such as drunkenness or resisting arrest and he pleads guilty, the two justices determine the sentence to be imposed. Those proceedings are known as summary proceedings. However, if the matter is contested or a plea of not guilty is entered, the justices of the peace usually adjourn the matter to a date on which the magistrate can hear and determine the matter. Some people may regard offences as being very minor and may wish to plead guilty to them. If an offence has been committed and a person knows he has committed an offence, he appears before a court and receives a penalty. It is a major event in his life. He is not a hardened criminal who has been before courts on previous occasions. Many offences may appear to be only minor, but to a person making his first appearance in court they are far from minor. It is a practice for the clerk of the court to be present. Every justice of the peace must be willing to serve on the bench. Many JPs are not experienced In that type of work. After listening to a justice of the peace get on his hobby-horse and vent his spleen on a defendant, I am not satisfied that justice will always be done. I would suggest to the Minister that there should be different types of justices of the peace: one to witness signatures on documents; and one who has completed a course and has been certified as capable of serving on a bench with another JP to determine summary offences. Justice must not only be done; it must also be seen to be done. It frightens me to think that some persons who apply through me to become justices of the peace could be allowed to sit on the bench. Some persons who apply do so with an ulterior motive, I assure the Minister that any person whom I recPmmend for appointment is a person of good standing and one worthy of appointment. Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3319

The Mmister is responsible for the registration of business names and companies, A problem arises In relation to the renewal of registration. In many countries it is not necessary to renew registration yearly, as it is in Queensland. Many people who come to Queensland and set up a business are not aware that they are required to renew their registration every year. I agree with the imposition of a penalty for late registration; but in all fairness to the proprietor of a business, he should be given a second notice of intention to cancel registration. Furthermore, such second notice should be sent by either certified or registered mail. My attention has been drawn to the fact that on a few occasions a person has claimed that he has not received notification that his business name is to be cancelled. To say the least, that causes a great deal of inconvenience. Before cancellation is effected the proprietor should be given ample opportunity to renew the registration. Posting by registered or certified mail would ensure that the proprietor receives the notice of cancellation and that the Govemment knows that he has received it. Finally, I turn to the matter of the electoral roUs. Because different criteria apply to enrolment, the Queensland electoral roll is different from the Commonweahh roll. It is not possible to have a joint roll. For example, Queensland insists that a person must be resident at an address for three months before he or she can be given enrolment on the State roll. That is a very important requirement. However, it is probably the reason why the State roll does not coincide with the Federal roll. Like the Commonwealth, the State should conduct a total canvass of electors to determine who is living where. Many people move from one division to another within an electorate and subsequently find that they are not enrolled on the correct local authority roU. The rolls should be kept as up to date as possible. In closing, I congratulate the Minister on his administration of his department and I thank him for his personal efforts since his appointment to the Justice portfolio.

Mr BURNS (Lytton) (5.4 p.m.): It is the practice of all Government members to congratulate the Minister on the work that he does. An Opposition Member: It's compulsory. Mr BURNS: It is compulsory. Govemment members critise Opposition members for not congratulating the Minister. This afternoon I congratulate him. I congratulate him on his not tabling a report on the activities of his department. He is the only Minister who faUs to report to Parliament. Any member who asks the Parliamentary Library or the Clerk of Papers for a copy of the Justice Department's report will be told that there is not one. So I congratulate the Minister on his being the only Minister who is able to evade his responsibUity in this regard. This afternoon I witnessed with some concern the fight between the National Party and the Liberal Party over who will be the next Chief Justice of Queensland. It is fairly obvious that a division has occurred in the Government ranks over this issue. This afternoon the member for Sherwood pontificated and expressed concern about the fact that people were attacking the independence of the judiciary and were criticising them. If the legal eagles are attacked, they stick their nose in the air and pompously cry, "Shame! You are not allowed to do that. It's against the law. It's infra dig." It could be said that the legal eagles easUy get their feathers ruffled. I do not think that they should be plucked or that it is a case of trimming their wigs, but it is time to make our laws and the legal profession face the future, not the past. The next decade wiU be the decade of the test-tube man, human hatcheries and frozen embryos. We need to be doing something about this question now. The changes that we read about In books and with some fear and trepidation thought might happen in the future are happening. We are in the days of the computer, the days of Big Brother, the days of test-tube man. We need laws governing the identification of frozen embryos, how they wUl be used and how long they wUl be frozen. We must have the courage to sort out the consequences for the human species of that most major change. In the fleld of computer technology, where are the laws that wlU help us face the results of the frightening Invasion of people's privacy? Our medical records, our legal records and other sorts of personal records are being put onto the master centralised 3320 10 November 1981 computer. Centralised controls will allow for authoritarian groups, authoritarian Govern­ ments or authoritarian leaders to intrade undetected into our private and personal lives. Where are the strict rales for the collation, storage and disclosure of computerised personal information? It must be done and the legal profession should be giving the lead. We get very little lead from the legal profession in this State. Most of the time someone else gives the lead and the legal profession reponds in some defensive way. Where is the investigation into the hidden courts—the statutory authorities that make decisions to refuse, for instance, to grant licences to fishermen? Where do those fishermen get their natural justice, the right to appeal and defence? What happens to aU the pensioners who are told by the social security people, "Your pension is withdrawn. You have lost it. That is it. We have ruled you out."? Where is the justice in the law regarding a proper right of appeal when Children's Services departmental heads make decisions that affect children's future for ever? What right of appeal do those children have? What are we doing to strengthen the laws in relation to those major decisions? What about the small but most important one of the lot—^the question of neigh­ bourhood problems? How can a court become involved when we cannot even get the police involved, when the Government washes its hands of the problem? When wiU we have neighbourhood centres sitting at night or at week-ends to solve, through con­ ciliation or arbitration, disputes between neighbours? In many cases, they are the disputes that end up with a policeman getting kUled or somebody else bdng shot. When will we stop simply talking about real, fair-dinkum compensation for victims of crime and do something about it? If a person is knocked down by a car he can receive hundreds of thousands of dollars out of compulsory third party insurance. What sort of money was received by Ron Linfoot and his wife or the family of the young saUor who was kiUed on his way here from Darwin? It could be a woman or a kid. People are reported missing and are never seen again. What do we do about them? The victim is for­ gotten. The most value that a victim has in our society is as a witness. There is little for the victim in recompense for time lost or the distress or anguish suffered. Magna Carta provides— "To no-one wiU we sell, to no-one will we refuse or delay right or justice." A great mass of people is, in effect, denied access to the system today. Magna Carta does not work for a lot of Queenslanders. Delays in the preparation of documents, in the service of documents and in court hearings range from months to years. There are long delays between hearing and judgment and between judgment and appeal. We in the Labor Party have had an example of long delays in the legal system in deciding who controls the party's assets. Justice delayed is justice denied. The worker, fmstrated by continual delays, withdraws his case. His witnesses die or become sick. Or they forget. Who could really remember in detail what happened many years ago? Governments themselves use public money in the courts and pay costs at all levels to keep cases going to higher levels to frustrate the average citizen. We live in a time of change and people expect today's judges to meet the challenges of change. Australian judges are generally appointed without any regard to the new attitudes. We do not have a female judge in Queensland and the other judges seem to have been appointed because they were either conservative or ultra-conservative. People hold the law in disrepute when they see lawyers arguing that some people should not be part of their profession because of their radical views and their so-called disrespect for repressive laws, as we saw in New South Wales just recently. There are a lot of people who hold some of the laws of this State in disrespect, but as chizens they are just as good as some of those who sit on the bench or place half a fleece on their head and act as lawyers or spokesmen for the law. Then some of the same lawyers who argue about their right to determine the future of a young woman who wants to be a barrister go out and use the ambiguity of words to get the guilty off scot-free or to plan tax evasion schemes or watertight contracts for white-collar crooks. Only the day before yesterday policemen were sent to hound a few nudists who were out on The Sph away from the public beaches. Those sunburnt flashers were quickly brought to justice. People see that and get upset when they see charges against young murderers dropped; when drunks jvho kill kids on the highway to the Gold Coast are not even charged whh leaving the scene Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3321 of an accident; when a young man bashes and slashes another and is found guilty, but considered for parole after serving only one month in gaol; when a man who stabbed another nine times is put on probation; when a man and youth charged with 33 separate charges involving wilful destruction, breaking and entering, and stealing are put on probation; when two others who knocked an old man down, punched him and hit him on the head with a bottle are put on probation; when corporate frauds are achieved whh the help and advice of lawyers and accountants, and when the High Court hands down a decision that partners can claim a $6m tax loss on share trading when in effect a small profit had been made. The High Court allowed them to get away with it. That court decision defies all logic and common sense when wage and salary earners are taxed unmercifully and pensioners are being hounded because they have a few bob in non-interest bearing deposits. The out-of-touch, out-of-date High Court allows the very rich tax evaders to escape their responsibilities. Today we have an unprecedented reason to get rid of the legal double talk and gobbledygook that plague our laws and legal documents. As we transfer more and more documents to word processers we should take the opportunity to bring the language of the law into simple, plain English that we can all understand and respect. Today's Australian is not impressed by repdition, obscure documents, "aforesaids", "hereinbefores", "whatso- evers" and other outmoded, unnecessary expressions. Why does a will to the law become the last wUl and testament? We all call it a will, but that is not the way the law sees it. Why does the law persist in using double-talk such as "give, devise and bequeath", "cease and desist", "confess and acknowledge", "force and effect" and "alter or change"? It is 1981; U is time we used the language of 1981. The law's preoccupation with the old-style repetitious legal writing to express commonplace ideas makes it seem pompous, wordy, unclear, ambiguous, intricate and hopelessly confusing to non-lawyers. Including jurors and those who are forced to seek justice from its practitioners. Under the Vagrants, Gaming, and Other Offences Act 1931-1971, a vagrant is a person who— "With intent to commit any indictable offence—

(b) Is found by night having his face blackened or masked, or wearing felt or other slippers, or being dressed in disguise or otherwise disguised, or having in his possession any dark lantern, electric torch, or any matches of the kind known as silent matches;". Government members may laugh but that is the law in 1981. The Act also refers to the carrying of a sword or bludgeon. I have seen a lot of larrikins around this place but I have not seen one with a sword or bludgeon lately. I have seen a few people in felt slippers who might have been vagrants, but one does not have to see such people wearing felt slippers to reaUse what they are. I do not know what a sUent match is, to be quhe truthful. There has been a lot of talk about casinos lately so I looked up the definition of "unlawful game". It includes— " 'fan-tan,' 'fan-tan troy,' 'troy,' 'pak-a-pu,' 'fruit machines' of every description, and any mechanical contrivance in the nature of or sImUar to a fruit machine, 'two-up,' 'heading them,' 'sin-ki-loo,* 'tray bh peter,' 'Yankee grab,' and 'hazard'." In addhion, if a person is found in any dwelling-house, warehouse, coach-house—I do not know too many coach-houses—stable or outhouse with a picklock, key, crow, or jack in his possession he is deemed to be guilty of being a vagrant. Honourable members opposhe are laughing. What are they laughing about? That is the law that the Government is trying to enforce. That is the law that we ask the people to hold in high repute. That is the law for which we are asking people to have some regard. No-one can deny that unless people are rich enough to afford it or poor enough to qualify for legal aid, they cannot afford to take a claim to court. When our legal system makes h impossible to take a case to court to recover $1,000 because of the costs involved, then there is something wrong with it. How many times do people come to us and we have to say to them, "Look, I have to be honest with you. If you take that case to court it wUl cost more than h is worth."? I know that some lawyers give the same advice. I see that the legal profession and the real estate and other professions are taking a stand against class actions. When mass production of goods and services produce mass legal problems, lawyers stUl stick tp the old-fashioned Idea that each person must take an individual 3322 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates) claim and receive an individual decision. In the United States of America, class actions have become a method of making today's lawyers relevant to today's society. It is time that we did something about this matter in Queensland. I now turn to costs. The words that people in my electorate have used to describe legal costs are "outrageous and excessive", "disgraceful" and "sheer greed". Accountability must come to the legal profession with publicly funded legal aid. Irrespective of whether the money is provided from interest earned on trust account deposits, it is pubUc money. If public money is to be spent on the legal profession, then it should be required to be account­ able. For example, many people ask, "Why should we have to pay for both a barrister and a lawyer (two lawmen) to handle a court matter? Isn't this costly and wasteful? Why can't the first fellow that we go to handle the matter for us?" Who considered the consumers when Barwick's High Court "Taj Mahal" was buUt in Canberra? Sir Harry Gibbs said— "The average cost of an appeal, in which senior and junior counsel from Sydney are briefed, and which lasts for a day, would vary from $3,789 to $4,289, but if the appeal had been heard in Sydney, the cost would have been reduced by about $969." If an ordinary citizen or a businessman wants to go to the High Court in Canberra he has to pay an extra $1,000 a day. Three Supreme Court judges in Queensland refused to move into the new $20 m court complex in George Street until major changes were made to their chambers. Someone said that they bumped their heads when they changed their clothes. It is no wonder that people say, "There is no justice here for the ordinary, middle-class citizen and family man. You have to be a rich man to get justice from these silvertaUs." I have an account here from a solicitor whose name I shall not mention. However, the note attached to it states— "This represents a careful estimate of our costs. For convenience payment hereof will be accepted within 14 days in full satisfaction. If payment is not made, we have the right to withdraw this account and deliver a detaUed bill in which we will not be limited to the amount charged herein." In other words, the solicitor is saying, "Pay up in 14 days or we will take the bill back, alter the amount and charge you more." Who else can get away with that sort of blackmail? That note is part of the account. If we got paid at the rate that this solicitor did for handling a claim that he botched—I complained to the Law Society about the matter—we would be worth $1,000 a day. If we compared his work with ours there would not be an argument about what politicians receive. The argument should be about the solicitor who charged $61.80 to attend his client to receive instructions. He charged $3.95 for writing a letter to a finance company. He charged $3.95 to write a letter to another finance company. He charged $5.60 for attending the Corporate Affairs Commissioner's Office and searching for the registration of the company concerned. Then he had a look at the registration of another company and charged another $5.60. He charged $3.95 for reading a letter from one of the finance companies. He charged $4.50 for telephoning the Corporate Affairs Commissioner's Office to inquire whether a certain company held a motor dealer's licence. He charged $4.50 for attending the Corporate Affairs Commissioner's Office. I could go on. That soUchor charged 700 bucks for handling a case simUar to those that every member of Parliament handles for his constituents day after day. The Office of the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs cannot hold Its head very high in relation to this, because the poor old constituent paid approximately $50 for letters at $4.50 a time passing backwards and forwards asking that office to answer the correspondence. It is time that charges were looked at to see whether solicitors such as this one who charged a total of $746.45 can then say, "Pay it whhin 14 days or I will alter it and make it dearer." I want to know how he can charge such a sum. Does anybody think that young lad who was ripped off by a thieving used-car salesman and ripped off by a company that werit into liquidation and took his hard-earned money will have a giant respect for the law, lawyers and the legal professiPn? Of course, he will not! Neither will his parents nor any of his friends, A few weeks ago I asked the Minister for Justice questions about the basic rights and civil liberties of citizens. I did that because I am concerned about what happens when a policeman pulls up a citizen who thinks he has done nothing wrong and that the policeman is acting IllegaUy and therefore he wants to know his rights. Where do Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3323 we find what right a dtizen has to say to a policeman, "You don't have the right to arrest me."? Where do I find in all the laws of the State a clear definition of my rights so that I know exactly what I have to do when I am confronted by a policeman and when I am entitled to say to him, "No more,"? I asked the Minister the circumstances under which a citizen could or could not lawfuUy resist an unlawful arrest and the Attorney-General replied that he could not provide answers without an exhaustive review of the legislation and the law generaUy. If the Minister cannot find out what my rights are without an exhaustive review of the legislation and the law generally, what chance has an 18-year-old kid fresh out of school got when he is going down the road and a policeman pulls him over and says, "You're a young boon, put your hands on the top of the car. You are abusing me; 1 am arresting you for abusive language and resisting arrest."? Nowadays some young poUcemen think they are Starsky and Hutch. Dressed in T-shirts and slacks they grab people as they come out of hotels. They do not identify themselves as policemen. They give young people a bit of a biff on the way out so a mate comes over and gives the policeman a biff back. The policemen then produce their identity and say, "You have socked a policeman and you are in trouble." When the lad comes back from the police station and the watch-house he is black and blue. When the best advice that he can be given under Queensland justice is to go home, put a poultice on the bruises and forget it because if he takes it any further he will end up being victimised, then it is a sad state of affairs. Unfortunately that is the feeling of a lot of people in the community today because nobody can afford to say to the kids, "Take that bloke on." Even the lawyers will say, "Give him a bit of advice, Tom. If he does, they are liable to victimise him." There is something wrong with the system of justice in the State of Queensland when a lad who feels he has been bashed or wrongly done by cannot be advised to go to a court and expect to obtain justice. A great percentage of people in the community believe that they wUl not get justice, that they will not get a fair go, and that the best thing they can do is allow whoever did the wrong deed to get away with it, that they should forget about it and cover it up because if they don't they will be unfairly treated. If that is the case then there is something radically wrong, and I want something done about it. It is time the Government looked to the 1980s and the 1990s and started to do something about the pressing problems of the future, not the problems of the past.

Hon. J. W. GREENWOOD (Ashgrove) (5.24 p.m.): There is no doubt that the law in Australia today is available to the very rich, the very poor and the very, very brave. What can be done about it is not so easy to say. Recently a great German judge was in Australia to take a look at our system and compare it with the system overseas. He made the point that the adversary system which is used in Australia might be the most efficient method of getting to the facts, but it involves the litigants in paying for the research that each of those adversaries has to do in order to present the case to the court, whereas on the Continent what is sometimes called the inquisitorial system is more widely used. Under that system it is the task of the court itself to carry out those very expensive investigations which are necessary before the facts can be arrived at. That approach is anathema to a lawyer who has been trained in the common law system. We beUeve that there is nothing as good as the adversary system to get to the facts, and I think that that is probably a true statement. There Is no better method of getting to the trath than the system we have. The problem is that it has become so expensive that it is no longer avaUable to most of the population. It is that problem that we have to face up to squarely at some time, A few years ago I was a member of a subcommittee of the Bar Association which was loddng at procedure. One of the things that we recommended to the Govemment was the setting up of what became the SmaH Claims Tribunal. Nobody pretends that the Small Claims Tribunal is anything but an imperfect method of getting to the facts. Nobody pretends that It does not make a lot of mistakes—mistakes that would be quite unacceptable in cases of greater Import. But the plain fact about the Sriiall Claims Tribunal is that h provides quick dedsicms and provides them cheaply. It thereby fulfills a most Important function in our system. 3324 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

I wUl not talk today about those wider aspects and those more fundamental problems, because they are problems for which I certainly have no answer. However, there are some problems connected with the administration of the criminal law for which some answers have been suggested and hitherto ignored. I think it Is time that somebody In this place said something about them. I am referring to the report of what is known as the Committee of Inquiry into the Enforcement of Criminal Law In Queensland, a committee consisting of the Honourable Geoffrey Arthur George Lucas, a judge of the Supreme Court and now Senior Puisne Judge; Desmond Gordon Sturgess, a barrister of the Supreme Court; and Dynes Malcolmson Becker, a retired Chief Superintendant of PoUce. The central suggestion in that report is that the police should use a method of recordmg confessions. A good starting point is to ask ourselves how much money it costs the public to litigate disputed confessions in the courts every year. In the presence of the Treasurer, who has just entered the Chamber, may I read a smaU passage from that report on the matter of the cost to the Treasury— "We feel a fair estimate of the daily cost to the public of a case in the District or Supreme Court would probably be about $2,000. Mr Bavintcm, the Public Defender . . . estimates that costs of $1,000,(X)0 annually can be expected because of these disputes."— that is, disputes which waste the court's time about whether or not a confession was in fact voluntary or whether It was extracted in a way that was impermissible. The views of people all over the world seem to be fairly unanimous on this. Lord Widgery, the Lord Chief Justice of England, during a debate as long ago as 1973, said— "If only we could achieve a situation in which we had a guaranteed tape recording of aU poUce interrogation, so that after the event you could hear what was said, in what tone of voice, with what inflection, and one could see precisely what the subject did admit to, and what he did not admit to—^if we ever achieved that shuation aU our other troubles about poUce interrogation would go out the window." That, ultimately, was the view that the Lucas committee adopted. The committee also said— "Of the three methods referred to—" that is, the methods of recording the confession— ". . . the recording of the confession on video or audio tape at the time of its making is, without question, the best method. A tape recording makes a record not only of what is said, but also of the manner in which it is said. Voices, of course, do betray emotions. Confidence, for example, has one voice and contrition another. Pauses are, indeed often pregnant with meaning. In very many cases the manner of speech will tell us all we want to know about the genuinensss of the alleged confession. A video tape, of course, allows one to see as well as to hear the making of the confession. In short, modern technology has now provided tools whereby a permanent record of a conversation may be made. Accordingly, unless there exist good reason for believing that their use would prevent justice being done, or there is some other sufficient reason, it is little less than imbecUity not to insist upon them being used by police officers when questioning suspects." Mr Moore: What are you quoting from? Mr GREENWOOD: I am quoting a recommendation from the committee. From time to time suggestions have been made that some of the tapes could be rigged and that it would be dangerous for the accused to have the tapes used against them. The committee had a close look at that, and said— "However, this is far from being the case. With a video tape recorder we are satisfied that the use of a timing device would make it impossible, in practical terms, for any police officer to alter the tape. This remarkable device was demonstrated to us. It cost $300 and It imprints the date and the time in seconds upon the tape. Consequently, the removal of any section of the tape would be recognizable immediately." The technology is there. It needs to be used. Why have juries such little confidence in the confessions that are tendered in evidence that, again and again, they are prepared to disbelieve them? Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3325

The best starting point is the Southport case that prompted the Lucas injuiry. The Committee will remember that in June 1975, during the hearing in the Magistrates Court at Southport of the case of Horgan v. Seiber and Saunders, a police constable (Mr Frank WiUiam Davey), himself a prosecution witness, gave evidence that a substantial part of the prosecution case was concocted. He claimed that the inspector in charge of the Licensing Branch, some of his senior officers and a constable had conspired to present this false evidence; that they had forged search warrants many months after the searches had taken place and, assisted by the police prosecutor, had engaged in further concoctions during the hearing of the case. That evidence was accepted by the magistrate—as indeed it might weU be accepted—because it was substantiated chapter and verse with tape- recordings. I come now to some of the conversations that took place between these experienced police officers. Inspector Pitts, who appears in the record, in November 1974 was the head of the Licensing Squad. Sergeant Horan at that time had recently been transferred to that squad, having had a long career in the Criminal Investigation Branch. Firstly, they were talking about two distinct charges. One related to possession of instruments of gaming found in a small case in the back of a car. The second matter, a much strong one, involved a newspaper whh a number of bets written on it. This is what Horan said about the first one— "We could brick him in, but then the magistrate might think we're bloody lying and if he thinks we're lying he's not going to take too kindly to the second lot of evidence. We will down him on the second lot of evidence with the instruments of betting." The term "bricking in" or "dropping bricks" means fabricating evidence usually of a confessional nature. Then Horgan and Pitts talk about ways of forcing the accused Saunders into the witness-box so that he can be cross-examined. What device do they cook up bdween them? The foUowing is the conversation between Pitts, who is head of the Licensing Squad, and Horgan, who is an experienced police officer:— "Horgan: If we can force Saunders into the box to save his own skin on it. Pitts: Yeah. Horgan: I'll give the questions, answers like this to Saunders: 'I've nothing to say'; which could be quite a reasonable question to give an answer to. puts: Yeah. Horgan: And the magistrate will give, or it gives the prosecutor a chance to say, wdl, 'That was a question, you had no need to give it, you could have gave the answer straight out'. Pitts: All he had to say was 'No'. Horgan: And that puts him in the box. Pitts: Yeah. Horgan: Oh! If I put 'No' there we've got no chance of getting him in the box. Pitts: That's right." That is the story. What they wanted to do was fabricate something in which the accused says he does not answer. What was the next thing they decided to do? Mr Davis: When you were in the ministry what did you do to raise these matters, which are nearly six years old? Mr GREENWOOD: I cannot take that interjection. I am not going to discuss what happened when I was in the ministry. The honourable member knows the reasons why I am not going to discuss the matter. What he should be doing, of course, is paying more attention to steps that could be taken in this Chamber in the future. Mr Davis: We have raised it time and time again. What did you do when you were in a poshion of power? Mr GREENWOOD: Opposition members have not raised the matter very well. That is why some other people have to raise It. 3326 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

To continue with our friends Horgan and Jeppesen—-they want to decide on the same story so that they will not be separated under cross-examination. They are in a car. The question is do they agree that they got out of the car or do they agree that they stayed in the car. Here is the story— "Horgan: Here's what we have to make up our minds—whether you fellows got out. Cacciola: We didn't get out of the car. ' Jeppesen: Agreed Frank? Davey: Mmmm." That takes place during an adjournment while Horgan was stiU under cross-examination. He gets back into the witness-box and Is asked certain questions by the cross-examiner. The following is the sequence:— "Q: I meant to ask yPu how long you have been a police officer. A: About 21 .. 22 years. ' ' Q: I see, and you have had considerable experience in that time. A: Yes. Q: You are famiUar with the rules such as the rule that being a witness in a case and under cross-examination you should not discuss the matter in hand, the case with any other witnesses to'be called? A: Yes, yes. Q: Have you done that in this case? A: No. Q: Between the 8th April and the present time? :'A: No.. No. . Q: You deny any suggestion at all that you discussed this with any other witness that my friend opened, Cacciola and Mr. Davey? A: In connection with this case, yes. Q: You had no discussion about this case with them at all? A: No. No. Q: You deny any suggestion of it? A: Yes." All this time, the police prosecutor was Mr Jeppesen. When that evidence was given he was seated at the bar table in his role as prosecutor. He was a party to this conference between the witness and other potential witnesses when they agreed on what questions should be answered and the way in which they should be answered. Indeed, h wiU be remembered that he was the one who asked, "Agreed, Frank?" It was this situation that brought the Police Force In this State Into disrepute. It was this situation that led the commission to conclude— "In our opinion, changes are desirable in the law to prevent or inhibit the fabrication of evidence by police officers." I turn now to some comments that Mr Larie made to the committee at the time. He was one of the few people with extensive experience who were prepared to come forward and be frank in the interests of the many members of the force who were trying to uphold standards. At the time, Mr Lane said— " 'Kill-hungry' police: there are unfortunately a handful of police who wUl resort to any lengths including blatant perjury in order to get a conviction, either because they get 'kicks' from it or because they believe It Will advance their careers. In my experience these poUce officers amount to orily a very few amongst the great majority of officers who are honest and responsible. Officers, both male and female, who fall Into this category are held in low regard by their feUow officers who generally disdain from working vrith them. They are generally fairly weU known not only by other police but by judges, magistrates and the,legal profession and their evidence has little credibiUty in the courts." Supply (Estunates) 10 November 1981 3327

That comment, itself, raises a number of questions. One of the problems is that they are apparently fairly well known. The question might weU be: Why then has nothing been done about them by other police? The answer, apparently, is that verballing, although frowned upon by some or most, will not be stopped by any. No methods are available that vriU produce an altogether perfect system of criminal justice. The report by the Lucas Committee at least pointed out how we can improve it in some ways. In my submission this report has waited too long for implementation. Some­ thing ought to be done about it—and done very soon. Mr BERTONI (Mt Isa) (5.42 p.m.): I rise to speak in the debate on the Estimates of the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General, and to bring forward a couple of points affecting my area. The Press in Mt Isa reported recently that the Family Law Court visits to Mt Isa would be cut. This is causing a lot of problems in Mt Isa. The artide reads— "Mount Isa has been dropped from next year's Family Law Court circuit. 'At this stage there is no proposal for any fixed sittings,' he said." If the Family Law Court does not sit In Mt Isa, the people will be forced to travel to TownsvUle Pr Brisbane. The cost of a divorce in Mt Isa has been about $300, but after paying for fares and accommodation the cost wiU run into thousands of doUars. I strongly object to the FamUy Law Court not sitting in Mt Isa. We are entitled to the same privileges as those enjoyed by the people in the coastal towns and Brisbane. I do not see why, to obtain a divorce, a country person should have to travel to TownsviUe or Brisbane and pay for accommodation. I strongly object and I hope that the Minister wiU take the matter up with the courts with a view to some sittings being held in Mt Isa. I now want to refer to the remuneration of baUiffs. I believe there is something radically wrong with the system when bailiffs in country areas are placed on retainers. I understand that bailiffs in the Mt Isa area are paid a retainer of something like $36 a month and a mileage allowance. We have full-time bailiffs in Brisbane and Townsvilie, yet those in country areas are supposed to survive on a retainer. I suppose the reason is that courts do not sit regularly in country areas, but if we want to retain bailiffs they should receive reasonable remuneration so that they wUl be available when the Circuit Court is in session. The bailiffs in my area have been complaining bitterly, and I understand that there is no bailiff in Mt Isa at the present time. I understand that the former bailiff resigned and that difficulty is being experienced in finding someone to replace him. The office of bailiff is extremely important to the working of our legal system, so the position in Mt Isa should be filled. I now turn to the Corporate Affairs Commissioner's Office. I believe it does a wonderful job, but there is something wrong with our legislation if we allow white-collar criminals to steal thousands upon thousands of dollars every year. I know that members of the Opposition, par­ ticularly the honourable member for Lytton, have been complaining about people like Tony Festa and the fact that Corporate Affairs could not stop him operating. I have spoken about that man and the farce of a painting business he operated throughout Australia on a number of occasions. He has had something like 150 orders made against him in the Small Claims Tribunal, and yet we still allow him to operate in Queensland. I know that after his latest spree he moved into New South Wales Mr Vaughan: You are years behind. He has been going for 10 years.

Mr BERTONI: No, he has not been gone for 10 years. That is wrong. Mr Vaughan: He has been operatmg for 10 years.

'Mr BERTONI: Oh, yes he has. Because I complained about him in my electorate he was kind enough to issue a summons against me. I will accept it and take him to court, because his record is so bad that I do not think any judge would accept his word. But my real point Is that If a complaint is made about shysters such as Tony Festa and he is taken to the Small Qaims Tribunal, what does that really mean? If an order is made and he refuses to pay, what happens thfcn? The aggrieved person has to go a step higher and spend more money to have a SmaU Claims Tribunal order enforced. Mr Yewdale: If you take out a court order you can get it. 3328 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

Mr BERTONI: Yes, but h is useless taking out a court order against these feUows because they know aU the rackets. That is what is wrong. We have not legislated to stop the operations of these shyster companies. I looked up some of the speeches I made on this subject when the Honourable Bill Lickiss was Attomey-General. I gave him a list of four or five ways we could legislate to overcome the problem of these shyster companies. But nothing was done. We do nothing. We let h roll. Who cares? They come up again. Mr Shaw interjected. Mr BERTONI: Yes, it is my Government I am complaining about; I make that quite clear. I am not saying anything about the departmental officers; they are very helpful people. There is something wrong with our legislation when we allow these white-coUar criminals to continue their activities. The situation has not changed. We are fooling ourselves if we believe that people are not having thousands upon thousands of dollars ripped off them every day. We do nothing about it. If a complaint is made to Corporate Affairs a whole series of investigations has to take place, but when the investigations have been completed we do absolutely nothing. We say that they are naughty boys but do nothing to prevent them from forming another $2 company. There is something wrong somewhere. I know that this matter has been raised on many occasions and that the Minister has it under consideration. Something must be done about it. If the legislation is to be enforced, the Small Claims Tribunal must be given more teeth. I now turn to the making of an application to become a justice of the peace. At one time members were entitled to submit about 16 appUcations a year; now the position has been thrown open and we are entitled to submit as many applications as we wish. Mr Yewdale: It's crazy. Mr BERTONI: I agree with the honourable member; it is crazy. Every Tom, Dick and Harry who meets a member of Parliament in the local pub or the local sporting dub wants to become a justice of the peace. He believes that if he has the initials "JP" after his name, he is important. When someone comes to me wanting to become a justice of the peace, I ask him, "What would you do if you became a JP?" He says, "A few of my mates would like me to sign a form." That is completely wrong. Mr Yewdale: The departmental officers are going crazy handling the applications. Mr BERTONI: That may be so. When someone comes to me wanting to become a justice of the peace, I question him about the need for it. If he has a legitimate need, I make an application for him. If I find that he has no need, I politely tell him that I wUl not submit his application. I know that some members do the opposite. They say, "Put them all through because it is a good vote-catcher." That Is wrong. We must dispel the notion that we want thousands of justices of the peace in our society. Mr Goleby: It is a status symbol for some people. Mr BERTONI: That is right. People like to teU their neighbours that they are JPs. The other matter that I wish to raise concerns the Queensland Law Society. If the gentlemen who comprise the society are supposed to be astute, why is it that I con­ tinuaUy receive complaints from ordinary constituents of mine about the way in which solicitors handle their affairs? If they write to the Law Society about a complaint Mr Yewdale: They get no satisfaction whatsoever. Mr BERTONI: I shall take that interjection. That is exactiy what happens. The Queensland Law Sodety is there to protect solichors and the legal profession in general, and it makes no attempt to help the ordinary people. The people who make complaints to the Law Society are usuaHy not well off and are going through difficult times. They put their trust in a solicitor. The complaints that have been made to me would make any honourable member's hair curl. There Is something wrong with the system. As I have said, the Law Sodety is supposed to comprise very astute gentlemen. When they receive a complaint, they write to the soUdtor concemed, ask him for his version, and then come up with the same answer, "We can't help you. The situation seems to be above-board." I know that honouraWe members wUl agree with me when I say Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3329 that the shuation is not above-board. A number of complaints against solichors are being swept under the carpet. The legal fraternity is not prepared to act on complaints that are made about solicitors. Mr Davis: It is the same with the Pharmacy Board. Mr BERTONI: I shall take that interjection. When a complaint is made about a pharmacist, he is asked to appear before the Pharmacy Board. I have not heard of many solidtors presenting themselves before the Law Society. As I said, there is something wrong with the system. Constituents are continually complaining to me about solicitors. A miner in a country area came to see me about a solicitor who asked for a power of attorney to handle his affairs. He had a fair amount of money—I think about $50,000—and the soUcitor asked for a power of attorney so that he could handle his affairs while he was out in the bush mining. When he retumed he wanted some of his money, but he found that the solicitor had lent the money to an organisation. The solicitor said that he had been given a power of attorney and that he had invested the money In an organisation. But what organisation did he invest it In? He invested the money in a body in which he had a major interest. That person then had to wait for the legal involvement to be untangled so that he could get his money. If it is legal for a solicitor to do that, then something should be done about it. If a solicitor is given a power of attorney, it should not give him the power to invest the money in some other body, particularly one in which he or his friends have an interest. I do not know of the laws that control solicitors in this regard, but they need to be tightened up. It is about time that we looked into the acivities of the Queensland Law Society Incorporated to see how honest it is In dealing with complants about its members and on how many occasions it finds in favour of citizens. On very few occasions does the society find in favour of a complainant. Mr Goleby: Would you agree that the REIQ has more control over its members than the Queensland Law Society? Mr BERTONI: No, I will not come into that one, because I know a few shysters in that field, too. Not enough is being done In the field of corporate affairs. I know that amendments have been made to the Companies Act, but shysters are still allowed to rip off small people who can ill afford to pay the additional thousands of dollars to have woric done again. Something Is radically wrong with the issuing of permits to run art unions. A number of charitable institutions in Mt Isa that have applied for permits to run art unions have experienced delays in the issuing of permits. I do not know whdher the applications are lodged in the court in Mt Isa or whether they are sent direct to the Minister's department in Brisbane. Every time I phone the officer in Brisbane he is very helpful, but it may be months before the permits reach Mt Isa. There certainly is a problem. I also wish to mention the problem that arises when a club forgets to pay fees to the department and it then goes back six or seven years and demands payment from the club for the fees owing. Is it right that the department can go back 10 years and ask a club to pay amounts between $4,000 and $10,000 simply because it has forgotten to submit a return to the department? That Is causing tremendous problems for the dubs, and I have made numerous phone calls and written several letters to the department. The department should locate the non-payments more quickly so that clubs are not hit with arrears for ten years. One club had to pay $10,000 or $15,000, and h could ill-afford that type of money. In that case the amount was reduced, but many problems arise. There seems to be something wrong whh the system. [Sitting suspended from 6 to 7.15 p.m.] Mr BERTONI: I would like to bring the Government's attention to some of the problems associated with the Elections Act, particularly those affecting voters in country areas. For many years the voting system has been the same and it Is causing tremendous problems for country voters. As has been mentioned many times before, the closure of post offices on Saturday morning has resulted In country people being discriminated against at election-time. The present system requires people in outlying districts to apply in wrhing for a ballot-paper. Then another form has to be signed and returned. All that 3330 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

has to be done within three weeks. For people in my electorate who live out towards Camoowfeal, usually that time is not sufficient because they have a, weekly mail service. It takes a week to apply, a week for it to be returned and another week for the papers to come back. It all depends on whether the maU is received at the ppst office in time to be stamped on Friday afternoon before election day. Iri the last election 80 or' 90 votes were disallowed because of insufficient time for them to be stamped before r eledion day. I have mentioned this matter before. There shPuld be an inquiry into it. We could adopt a similar system to that in Western Australiaj where some areas are specially designated and the people living in them automatically receive a vote. Another system would be to have two forms in the one envelope; One signature ought. to be sufficient to have the ballot-paper forwarded. In other words, the ballot-paper could, be sent and the signatures put on it. There should be no need to have a person witness the signature. A number of votes are declared invalid because there is no witnessing signature.- There are many problems associated with voting iri country areas that should.be looked into. Before the next election the Minister should institute an inquiry with a view to overcoming some of these problems. In my area people complained against a certain electoral officer. My ALP opponent at the last election had the audacity to complain about a returning Officer because he did not like him personally. In due course, without any justification whatsoever, the returning officer was removed merely because one of the candidates lodged a complaint about his lack of impartiality. However, his conduct was beyond reproach. I make strong objection to any candidate taking such action. (Time expired.) Mr HOOPER (Archerfield) (7.18 p.m.): Let me say how pleased I am to see that the Premier has entered the Chamber and deignS to hear me speak. I appreciate it very much. Among the responsibilities of the Minister for Justice is the field of buUding societies which today, by and large, are doing a good job. However, the Act under which they operate needs tidying up in a number of areas foUowing the, many hasty amendments made during the 1970s, when this Government presided'over the scandal inyolving the Queensland Permanent BuUding Society's computer loss of $2.6m. I thirik horiourable members wUl recaU the fiasco in rdation to the collapse of the Queensland Permanent and the subsequent tabling in the ParUamCnt of the Touche Ross report, which was about as clear as mud. It was one of the greatest Governmerit whitewashes I have seen. Of course, during the collapse the Government let members of the Oppositiori speak in the Parliament and make statements to the media, but the Govemment just kept quiet hoping that it would go away. Meanwhile, some of the directors who were guilty of malpractice were allowed to escape virtually unscathed. Mr Underwood: And the little people lost all itheir savings, Mr HOOPER: That is true. The fate of the Housing Ministers of those days—^Messrs Hodges arid Lee—is eloquwit testimony to their poor administration in the housing area. One matter that this Government continues to coridone is the performance of the building society which bears the State Government's name but which in actual fact has no such backing. I refer, of course, to the SGIO BuUding Society, which was so conveniently formed by Sir Gprdon Chalk from the carcasses of the half-dozen societies that this CJovernment allowed to go to the waU. It would be quite academic to suggest now that one of the thoughts In Sir Gordon Chalk's mind at that time was the fact that the Insurance business flowing from that buUding socidy would go to the SGIO. It is interesting to note that the business communiy has been very scant in Its favours to the former Treasurer. I wonder just how much of this flows from the Government's mishandling pf the building society fiasco. I draw the attention of the Committee to the last annual report of the SGIO BuUding Society. On page 14 of the report the society's expenses for the 1980'81 financial year are listed. That report shows operating costs for that period of $9,437,005 compared with $6,335,885 for the previous year. That represents an incredible increase of costs of just under 50 per cent for one year. No other building society in existence today shows ariythirig like Supply (Esthnates) 10 November 1981 3331 that ridiculous posUlon. There could be some argument if its performance showed the result of that enormous increase, but h does not. In the prime operating area of lending for homes, the SGIO Buildhig Society went backwards for the second financial year. The report shows that h loaned $87.2 m in 1980-81 compared with $100.8 m in 1979-80 and $102.9 m in 1978-79. All the public can see from the SGIO Building Society's rapidly spiralling costs is a vast advertising and promotional campaign which seesms to be aimed indiscriminately at whatever market it sees fit. Stop anybody in the street and ask him who advertises the most on television, and he wUl most certainly Include the SGIQ Building Society. It runs two large newspapers advertise­ ments in "The Sunday MaU" every week, sometimes three. It advertises on almost every radio station and in the country newspapers. Recently the SGIO Building Society mini-games were held. I am reliably informed that the SGIO Building Society had to pay $200,(X)0 for the right to use its name In the mini-games. The actual expenditure must have been considerably more as there was extensive advertising in all the media, and signs were plastered all around the various venues. I would like to pose this question of the Minister: Was the increase in the SGlO Building Society business commensurate with tfie expenditure on the mini-games publicity? I would suggest that the Minister ask the society for some comment. ,. Surely some responsibility has to be taken by that society. If not, then the Government has wide powers under the Act and should make the society show some responsibility in regard to its advertising expenditure. At the present time interest rates are at an historically high level, thanks, of course, to the great Liberal money-managers in Canberra. Honourable members opposite take every opportunity to bucket the former Whitiam Government as being responsible for our present economic mismanagement. Mr Tenni: They deserve It.

Mr HOOPER: Fancy that inane interjection coming from the honourable member for Barron River. He could not spell the word "economics", let alone understand it. I would suggest to him that where ignorance is bliss it is folly to be wise. Mrs Nelson: Are you the poor man's Gough Whitlam? Mr HOOPER: The,dulcet tones of the rich jwomen's Rosemary Kyburz, the honourable member for Aspley, Mrs Beryce Nelson! As to, Government members bucketing the Whitlam Government—they must think that the people of Australia are idiots if they think they are going to swallow that hoary chestnut. The plain fact of life is that we have had six years of the Fraser Government and interest rates and unemployment are at the highest levels in our history. Mr Tenni: Naturally. We are still paying off his debt.

Mr HOOPER: I think I will leave the honourable member for Barron River go this time. The Victorian Housing Minister, Jeff Kennett-—— Mrs Nelson: You are defeated by the truth. Mr HOOPER: The honourable member for Aspley askied why I do not teU the truth. I would say to the honourable member for Aspley In reply that truth is like a river; it rises no higher than its source. I,only hope that the honourable member for Aspley takes notice pf that. ' , ' As I was saying, the Victorian Housing Miriister, Jeff Kennett, has woken up to the fact that people are aware of who to blame for high interest rates. He is sheeting home the blame to where It belongs,'that Is, to the Incoiripetent Fraser Government. Here we have a so-called responsible home finance Institution spending, in my estimation, more than $1.5 m on advertising. If other promotion costs are added, the figure will probably be nearer $2m. There is something drastically wrong If a bHUding society bearing a State Government instru- mentalhy's inUlals,, albeit falsely, is spendmg this vast amount of money on promoting itself 3332 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates) while at the same time it is lending less and less money each year for home-ownership. It is high time that the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs thought about curbing the extra­ vagances of this society. I feel quite safe In suggesting that, if any other building sodety in this State tumed in a performance remotely resembling the fiasco of the SGIO Building Society, the Govem­ ment would move In very swiftly. The Govemment and particularly the Minister for Justice have an obligation to the people of Queensland to put the SGIO BuUding Society house in order. I now refer briefly to the laxity of the Justice Department in tendering advice to the Treasurer and his committee who were looking at the applications for casino licences. From the couple of instances that I wiU mention,' it seems, on the surface, that the Justice Department has been somewhat lax in providing background information. I fully understand that the Treasurer and his committee are responsible for certain aspects of the licences. However, the Minister for Justice is the Govemment's principal legal adviser. He and his department, who have the resources of the Corporate Affairs Office to draw upon, have a responsibiUty to give the business background to some of the appUcants. Ever since the casino issue was raised, Dr Edwards, who was doing the leg work for the Govemment, has promised the Queensland pubUc that applicants would be thoroughly vetted. However, already we discover that one of the applicants—or, to be more accurate, a subsidiary company of one of the casino appUcants—has gone to the waU. I refer, of course, to Alpex Commodity Traders Ltd and in particular to its subadiary T. C. Moritz Holdings Pty Ltd. It has gone into receivership. This does not say much for the way in which casino applications were vetted, in spite of aU Dr Edwards's promises, No doubt the Minister is aware that the principal of Alpex is Mr Robert Howes. Before coming to the Gold Coast, he was a commodity broker in the South. When that field became too crowded, he and his friends looked to the Gold Coast as their next field of endeavour. He surfaced on the coast with a bang in the form of a cocktaU party costing approximately $10,(XX). An Honourable Member: What did they drink? Mr HOOPER: That is what it cost—$10,000. I am told that some very prominent members of the Federal Government were present. Mrs Nelson interjected. Mr HOOPER: He also had one member of the State Government in attendance there to obtain some Ught relief—and that was the member for Aspley. She attended that cocktail party and, in fact, I am told on good authority that she was the lucky door prize. Mr Howes planned to get the small Investor Into the Gold Coast property market. However, he hit some snags In that the National CouncU for Securities and the Corporate Affairs Office were less than happy with his Ideas. Mr Howes's property futures scheme is a variation of the time-sharing developments that are now coming onto the Queensland property market. Mr Innes interjected. Mr HOOPER: I cannot hear the honourable member. He should take the plum out of his mouth. Mr Innes: Mr D'Arcy is as upset as you about that lavish party, Mr HOOPER: Of course he Is. Why wouldn't he be upset about people spending money in such a frivolous fashion? I understand that one of the basic differences In this scheme is that a person Is not guaranteed the use of a unh. The main reason for holding a unit in the Alpex operation is to resell it at a profit as soon as possible. This proposition depends on the aWUty of Alpex to keep a steady flow of buyers coming forward to purchase the units. A good deal of risk Is involved in this type of operation. I am told that all the sale commissions go to Alpex. The AustraUan Shareholders Association also has expressed concem—and In my opinion, rightly so—at the property futures scheme hself, which wlU do nothing for the small shareholder because It wUl benefit only the speculator, and at the manner In which Alpex Supply (Estunates) 10 November 1981 3333 was set up. Mr Howes and his family interests secured no fewer than 5 000 000 options in the company. I understand that Mr Howes owns 62.5 per cent of Alpex. In my opinion, that was a classic case of an insider getting a major financial ran on the rails. The behaviour of Mr Howes and his business associates certainly leaves a lot to be desired, yet this shonky real estate firm is on the short list for a casino Ucence. It is even proposing the time-sharing method for a hotel/casino. An interesting question that remams unanswered is: Where is the money that went into the Alpex scheme? Chicorp, the financier, does not have It. The trustee company says that it does not have it. So $5m to $7m is floating round somewhere. It will be interesting to see where it turns up. Meanwhile Mr Howes and company should be struck off the casino list as being not fit and proper persons to be the proprietors of a casino in this State. Dr Edwards has stated on behalf of the Government that he will tolerate no criminal overtones in the casino applications. I know that the Justice Minister and his department wiU agree whh that. Dr Edwards has even talked of involving Interpol. What a lot of rhetorical nonsense! It is quite obvious to me that Dr Edwards does not have his heart in the casino operations. They are against his beliefs and religion. He is being forced and heavied by the members of the National Party. Another prominent appUcant for a licence is the well-known identity Mr Emil Korn­ hauser, who is also known as Eddie Kornhauser. He is a former business partner and associate of Mr Abe Saffron. That is a nice old double which would certainly add a degree of class to any casino in Queensland. Has the Justice Department drawn the attention of Dr Edwards to Mr Komhauser's background? From information I have received it appears that h has not. I am reliably informed that Mr Kornhauser is a mate of the Minister for Local Government, Main Roads and Police (Mr Hinze) and that they were recently on holiday together in America. Need I say more? I suggest that if the Minister for Justice and Dr Edwards find out who owns the luxury apartments in Komhauser's high-rise building on the beach at Surfers Paradise they might end up with very red faces. Mr Doumany: Who stays there? I have heard all sorts of rumours.

Mr HOOPER: If the Minister is patient, I will come to that. I will not disappoint him. I should also like to know where all the leading southern criminals stay when they are at the Gold Coast. I think that should answer the Minister's question. The Minister for Justice and Dr Edwards might also like to inquire where people of power and influence in Queensland stay when in Honolulu. They would no doubt discover that Mr Kornhauser has luxurious apartments and real estate interests there for the use of his guests. To date the short list of appUcants for a casino licence is riddled with people of dubious quality and business background. I know of one Asian businessman connected with another casino appUcant, who made his initial fortune from peddling pornography. What I have to say now should be of great import to the Committee. I am reliably informed that two week-ends ago the Minister for Police (Mr Russell Hinze) spent three days on a boat with Mr Jack Rooklyn. Mr Rooklyn is known for his connection with the Bally Poker Machine Manufacturing Corporation. He was recently named in the Moffatt Royal Commission into Organised Crime in which Mr Justice Moffatt said that Rooklyn was part of organised crime. Is the Police Minister looking at a deal for putting Bally poker machines into casinos? Is he concerned that it is common knowledge that he, the Minister for Police in this State, spent three whole days with a man whose connection with organised crime has been weU documented by a royal commission? Why was the Queensland Press told to smother this story and who told it do so? How can the Minister or his supporters have so much power that they can keep the Press away from such a story? These questions need to be answered. We do not as yet have a casino but the whole exercise is shaping up to be one gigantic fiasco and an utter shambles. I predict that, for the Minister of Justice and his department, the word "casino" wiU become nothing more than a dirty six-letter word, as they wUl ultimately have to carry the can for this latest example of Government bungling and ministerial malversation. In the few minutes I have left to. me tonight, I draw the attention of honourable members to the uncanny number of times that corporate rogues In our community escape 3334 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates) justice, and I instance John Hannay of Mackay. He is a shonky hotelier of the worst order. He is better known in Brisbane as the proprietor of the Whisky Au-Go-Go Night Club that was burnt down in 1973. Last week Hannay sold his EungeUa Chalet for a reported price of $350,000. I hear that he is once more in the news for being robbed—or so he says—of $40,000 from a locked safe in the Oriental Hotel in Mackay. It would be interesting to know how many times Hannay has been burgled or robbed—no doubt for the purpose of insurance and as an excuse to defer showdowns with his credhors. In liquojr, circles his nickname Is "The Wild Duck" because he never settles. After only a few years in Mackay, Hannay has flddled his way through business ventures such as Daydream Island, the Oriental Hotel in Mackay, the Oriental Hotel in Rockhampton, the Oriental Reception Lounge in Mackay, the BaysvUle Zoo In Mackay and the EungeUa Chalet. I am told that he is now casting his greedy eyes on a department store with a liquor Ucence offered for sale in Mackay. I point out that not so long ago this shadoviv businessman, who does not pay his debts—^including, I am told Government charges such as pay-roll tax, stamp duties, workers' compensation premiums, and, no doubt; licensing fees— big-noted himself shouting members of his staff a free trip to the United States of America. Recently the Auditor-General, on advice given to him by the State Treasury, disclosed that Government departments lost $8m in the past two years, perhaps as a result of writing off bad debts. It would be interesting to know how many of the debts written off in past years, or how much of this $8m, can be traced to the corporate business dealings of John Hannay, who is widely regarded as the godfather of corporate crime in northern Queensland. Mr Innes: A fairy godmother.

Mr HOOPER: She is sitting beside the honourable member. It would also be interesting to know how much John Hannay owes in Government charges at this very moment, as he has sold his EungeUa Chalet and looks to new ventures, all of which involve profiteering and trading in Government licences. I am sure that honourable members would agree that It is remarkable that a man such as Hannay can accumulate huge debts, seemingly flaunting his contempt for Government authority, and at the same time, with merry abandon, buy and sell property in which the main point of value is a Government licence. While I have been speaking, I have watched the Minister for Justice and Attorney- General writing furiously. Instead of Using his time in reply in giving me, to use a parUamentary term, a bucket, I think he should make it his ministerial duty to order an inquiry into this northern corporate crook. I urge the Minister to consider a fuU inquiry into the corporate activities of John Hannay and all the ventures with which he is associated, some Of which I have listed and others that I have been unable to find.

Mr KATTER (Flinders) (7.37 p.m.): I compliment the Minister on the way In which he has handled his portfolio and I state my reasons for saying that. One point on which members of the Opposition would agree with me is that the Minister is a reasonable man who Ustens to a reasonable argument. He can be convinced. He does not believe that he loses face simply because he has the sense to listen to a well-based argument, take notice of it and act upon it. Numerous aspects of legislation need improvement, because at' one time or another they impose either great hardship on people or a great cost burden ori the Government. A number of these very small but very important aspects have been corrected during the Minister's term of office. I refer tq the Introduction of reserve jurors for extended cases. We have seen cases in which there has had to be a second court hearing because a juror became sick or was incapacitated In some manner. To tum to another area, I know of two notorious cases related to commital proceedings. One concerned a fellow charged with cattle-stealing. While he sat in court fpr about four months his family had no Income, his job was in doubt, and his business interests also suffered tremendously. As everyone expected, he was acquitted; fhe case against him was very weak. To say that that person has not suffered would be ridiculous. On^ has only to look at the loss of 16 weeks' wages at $300 a week to come up with a fairly tidy sum of money. On top of that, he had to pay legal costs. In spite of his bemg Supply (Esthnates) 10 November 1981 3335 found not guilty that person has suffered as much as would a person found guihy of a major robbery; yet it was the opinion of everyone who know him and whp knew the drcumstances of the case ithat he was innocent; The second case related to a djrporate happening. Again the committal proceedings took some six months foHowed by a trial whifeh took another six months, after which the person involved was found not guilty of any offence. That case involved the collapse of a corporation, Th6 person Concerned lost his entire fortune. In addition, he had to ineet l2 months' legal expenses and pay for someone tp replace him In Iris business. Duririg that period his business went to rack and ruin. Because the committal proceedings and the trial lasted some 12 months, he lost about $100,000. Again, he was found entirely innocent. In some instances, people have been fined $5,000 for robbing a bank. The people in the cases to which I have referred were found entirely innocent, yet they had to suffer losses of about $100,000. Mr Vaughan: You can't say"entirely innocent". . Mr KATTER: When I say "entirely innocent", I mean that people can be charged whh 10 to 20 different violations' of the law. They can be found guilty of a lesser offence. The people in both of the cases to which I have rderred were cleared of all offences. Mr Vaughan: They can't be eritirely innocent. Mr KATTER: When I say that they were entirely innocent, they were found to be innocent of every offence with which they were charged. The Minister amended the legislation to provide that people can be excused from attending at least the committal proceedings and, considering the two cases to which I have referred; I think that that is an important step forward. It is a pity that the legislation had not been changed sooner to help the people in those two cases. The Parliament passed legislation deaUng with vexatious litigants. I was somewhat sur­ prised and disappointed that members of the Australian Labor Party opposed that legislation. On the quickest of reflection they would reaUse that vexatious litigants have had a much more detrimental effect on ALP politicians than on politicians from my side of politics. If honourable members cast their minds back they will recall that there were many actions involving a former Prime Minister, Gough Whitlam. I am quite sure that State Labor Premiers are involved in these types of actions. One matter that I wish to mention very quickly is the decentarlisation of legal services. At present, many legal matters can be attended to at court-houses in the western towns in my electorate of Flinders, and I think that that is excellent. However, if the court-house at Julia Creek was closed, people would have to travel 70 or 80 mUes to fill out forms. It would be an extremely retrograde step to close that court-house. People in that area would not have any access to legal information. If the court-house in JuUa Creek was closed, the people in that area would have to travel about 200 raUes to the nearest solicitor. In addition to the cost of travelling 200 miles, there would be loss of a day's wages. If the clerk of the court was removed from the court-house at Julia Creek, the people in that area would have to travel that distance just to get information. I now wish to deal with three matters that I think are very important. The first is the electoral system. We constantly hear members of the ALP making pecuUar noises about the electoral system. That Is in sharp contract to the noises that they were making 24 years ago when they were in Government in Queensland. I wish to reflect, firstly, not upon the boundaries and the electoral system, but upon the system of postal voting. Because of certain anomalies in the electoral system in this State, a number of members of Parliament who represent country electorates suffered very severe losses in recent elections. I do not wish anything that I am about to say to be construed as criticism of the staff of the Charters Towers Court House, who do an excellent job. However, that court iS also one of the busiest Mining Wardens Courts in Queensland. Unfortunately, the staff IS not able to serve three or four masters at once. The net result was that people who made written appUcation for postal votes did not have them sent out in suffident time to enable thera to lodge a vote. I will outiine to the Chamber the process that has to be gone through. If a person on a station outside of Richmond givesi the mailman a letter in which he requests that an application for a postal vote be sent to him, almost one vi'eek elapses before that letter 3336 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates) reaches Charters Towers. The application for a postal vote is then sent from the court­ house in Charters Towers, so another week passes before the application gets back to the station outside of Richmond. If there is a shower of rain or if the mailman has a breakdown, that might become two weeks because the maU run is put off for a week. Unfortunately, that is the nature of mail services in country areas in this day and age. At the very least, it takes two weeks for a person to recdve not his postal vote form but his application for a postal vote. By the same process, another two weeks passes before the ballot-paper arrives at the station. One must bear in mind that the last two elections have been held whh only six weeks' notice. Even if a person moves very speedUy, It is very difficult for him to lodge his postal vote in the time specified. In my electorate, approximately 20 per cent of postal votes are not returned In time. That does not take into account a further 10 per cent or 20 per cent of people who do not bother to apply for a postal vote because they realise there is insufficient time to conclude the long, drawn-out process. In the last election the member for Warrego and I lost a great number of votes on the most ridiculous technicaUties. On the front of a postal baUot-paper, a person Is supposed to write his name as a witness that the ballot-paper has been completed and has been placed In the envelope. Mr Vaughan: Not on the ballot-paper. Mr KATTER: No, on the envelope In which the ballot-paper is placed. If the person witnessing the signature of the voter does not wrUe on the envelope his status, such as an elector of Queensland, a justice of the peace, a high commissioner or any number of other categories, the vote is invalid. The printing is so small that even a person Uke myself who does not have to wear glasses would find it extremely difficuh to read it. Because of that most of the postal votes that are returned in time do not have that portion on the envelope filled out. At the last election in both the electorates of Warrego and Flinders, simply because of that absolutely ridiculous technicaUty, many votes could not be counted. Whether a person puts down that he is an elector of Queensland does not matter, because his name is on the envelope and it is very easy for anybody to check whether he is an elector of Queensland. That takes only five seconds to check, so why does he need to write It on the envelope. I do not see any value in that. In the electorate of Warrego, Mr Turner lost about 120 or 130 votes. I lost approximately 200 votes that I should have received over my opponent. That system militates against members such as us and also against country people. The time is long overdue for radical reform. Mr Underwood: What do you suggest?

Mr KATTER: A number of very simple solutions to the problem exist. They are a little technical and I do not intend to go into them at the moment. If the honourable member thinks that we are looking for a sneaky way to gain some advantage, I tell him that we are being very seriously disadvantaged by the present postal-voting system. I do not think that anybody in the Parliament should try to disfranchise people. I have heard one of the members from TownsviUe complain constantly about people not being on the roll. In one of the towns In my electorate the mayor of 20 years' standing and his entire family—some eight or nine voters—were aU struck off the roll. They had been Uving there for over 20 years. None of them had moved his place of residence. When I hear ALP members complaining, I cannot help thinking that in that town something like 40 or 50 of the voters—it amounted to about 10 per cent of the voting public in the area—found they were not on the roll. If members opposite view with suspicion what happened in Townsvilie, I can assure them that I view with suspicion certain happenings in my electorate. There is probably a very innocent explanation for those happenings. All I am saying is that I would agree with the members from Townsvilie who criticise a system that would allow that to occur. I certainly accept that reform is very badly needed. We are no longer living in the stone age, but our approach to postal voting is very much a stone-age one. Queensland now is probably one of the worst in the western democratic world for the difference between the smallest and the biggest electorates. We hear members of the Opposition talk about one vote, one value. I find It an incredible viewpoint when they then move from that principle to saying that all electorates should have the same Supply (Esthnates) 10 November 1981 3337 population. Nobody can teU me that a person living In McKinlay or Kynuna has a vote equal In value and his representation in Parliament is equal in value to a person living in Charters Towers. The secretary in my electorate office lived in Brisbane for many years. When she came up to work in the office, she was handUng I don't know how many social security problems. We had 17 people in before lunch. She said, "What about the peiople out in Hughenden, Richmond " Mr Underwood: Is that all? Mr KATTER: The member for Ipswich West says, "Is that all?" If he can attend to more than 17 people In one morning, I would be very curious about the way in which he is looking after them. I know a lot of doctors who can process patients in three minutes, but I would not like to describe the attention that they get. On that occasion 1 was worried that I had proceeded far too quickly by attending to the problems of all those people in that time. My secretary said, "What about the people in Hughenden? Don't they have any problems?" Of course the people in Hughenden have problems. Of course the people in Richmond, Julia Creek, McKinlay, CoUinsvUle and Kynuna have problems. Unfortunately they have no access to adnunistrative personnel to attend to thdr problems. When I hear people talking about the idea of having electorates of equal population, I think of going not only where I go now, but also extending my travels up to Normanton and Burketown and down to , Aramac and various places like that. Mr Vaughan: Don't you have telephones up your way?

Mr KATTER: That is the sort of naive statement that I expect from the ALP. It is a curious thing for the member to say to me. Mr Vaughan: I understand that your bUl is pretty high, though.

Mr KATTER: I make no apology for my bill. If the member had been In the Pariiament when the Issue of the telephone bUl was brought up, I quite frankly sklted about mine because it was an Indication of the volume of work that passes through my office. I invite honourable member opposite to try to ring my office. People are ringing from those outlying centres continuously. Unfortunately, only one person can talk on the telephone at a time. Many of the matters raised by constituents with me are very private problems. We have manual exchanges and we have party lines. Many people do not have a telephone in their home. In most of those towns there is one telephone booth. Many of the people are pensioners. Mr Vaughan Interjected.

Mr KATTER: There are four pensioners living In pensioner units in Hughenden. None has a vehicle. They have nearly two miles to walk to get to the nearest public telephone. All of them have 200 or 300 yards to walk to get to the nearest neighbour's place—not that I can envisage anyone wanting to ring up about private matters from a neighbour's place. I travel approximately 80 000 km a year by car. When one calculates the cost of that one finds how far an electoral allowance goes. I do not seriously think that anyone would believe that a person living in Kynuna or McKinlay has a vote or representation equal to that of a person Uving in Charters Towers. Some electorates are probably worse off than my electorate. Very few States in the westem world have a closeness in size of electorates that we have in Queensland. No other country in the world has as sparse a population as Queensland. We have an absolutely rldieulous situation by any standard of comparison, except of course, the shuation that exists in South Australia which was brought about by a feUow who ran away from govemment with his taU between his legs three years ago, leavhig that State in such a mess that it wUl never recover. One other matter I would brmg to the attention of the Minister Is the report of the Lucas committee. It has been suggested to me that a lot of the solutions to the problems w my electorate can be found in that report. I would like to che three cases. A very 13766-110 3338 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

Innocent, church-going lad, who Involved hhnself in a number of community activities, was hoUdaying on the coast. The poUce visited him and searched the entire area, uicludmg every room, every caravan and every tent, for drags. (Time expired.) Mr FRAWLEY (CabooUure) (7.57 p.m.): I congratulate the Minister for Justice who has a very busy portfolio. He encounters extreme dhficuhies m admhustering h, but he has done a fairly good job since his appointment. We are discussing justice, and there is very Uttle justice In this Parliament for backbenchers. It should be called the "Axemmster" ParUament, where those who don't agree, both Opposition members and Govemment members, get the chop. The only resemblance that this Parliament has to a Westminster ParUament is that Opposition members sit on Mr Speaker's left and Govemment members sit on his right. In my opinion justice was perverted this moming when I asked the Premier a question about overseas trips by officers of his department. I received the brash-off. It was a deliberate attempt to cover up some trips made by pubUc servants In the Premier's Depart­ ment. In fact, they are known as the jet set of the Public Service, and some of them take their wives as weU. I want an answer to the question I asked this morning to get a bh of justice Into the place for back-benchers. Years ago members of Parliament were restricted to nominating no more than 16 people a year as justices of the peace. That was the right procedure. Since the Umh has been removed, members of Parliament have not been restricted on the number of persons they can nominate. The situation is fardcal. It is far too easy for a person to become a justice of the peace. More stringent conditions should be imposed. I know that some people who come to me to be nominated as a JP cannot do the job. Others woiUd make very gopd justices of the peace. Quite a few of them want the letters "JP" after theh name because, to them, it is Uke a decoration. I hope that the Minister heeds my comments and restricts the number of justices of the peace in Queensland. The licensing of amusement machines comes under the Minister's control. Far too many amusement parlours operate In Queensland. I have noticed the type of persons who frequent such places. Young pepple become addicted to playing the machines. When they have nothing to do, they congregate Inside the amusement parlours and just droop over the machines. They get no exercise. I believe that the Justice Department should look very closely at applicants befpre issuing licences for amusement machines. I want to refer now to the State Electoral Office. Recently I have received complamts ifrom people to the effed that the office has advised them that they are not on the electoral roll. Mr Wilson: How long is it since the State Electoral Office has taken a census? Mr FRAWLEY: The honourable member wUl not be here after the next election, so I will gd him a job as a census-taker or a Townsvilie dog-catcher. Mr Wilson: You won't be here. Mr FRAWLEY: No, I won't be here. I know I won't be here, but apparently the honourable member does not know that he won't be here. Now that I have told him, he does. The State Electoral Office Is causing a lot of annoyance to people by taking so long to process applicationsi for enrolment. People have told me that it takes up to four or five months to get on the roll. Mr Tenni: Six months. Mr FRAWLEY: People have complained to me that U takes four or five mraths. Whatever the period, it is far too long, espedally In view of the fact that local authority elections wUl be held early next year. Something should be done to Improve the situation. Again I stress the need for the State Eledoral Office to take care when sending out notices stating that people are not on the roll. A woman who received such a notice tdd me that she had been on the roll for the whole time that she lived in her street. It was 12 or 13 years. She was advised that she was not on the roU. That situation arose simply because on the day an officer came round to her home to check, she happened to be out. Supply (Estimates) 10 November 1981 3339

One day whUe I was livmg In Redclhfe I was sitting on the front steps and noticed somebody come to the house next door and speak to the young lad who lived there. I had a feeling that that person was checking the roll. I asked the young fellow, "What did he want?" He told me, "He asked me how many people lived next door." That person who checked the roll did not even come in to my home and check with me. The eledoral vishor system also Is In need of review. Certain problems have arisen in my electorate. Mr Hooper: Did you have that speech cleared by the honourable member for Aubum?

Mr FRAWLEY: I wUl Ignore that interjection. When the electoral visitor goes to someone's place, no scratineers from any political party should be allowed to attend. I am not attacking any party In particular; I am criticising all political parties. I have received numerous complaints from people, whose politics I do not know, to the effect that scratineers were looking over their shoulder trying to see how they voted. That is wrong. I am not critidsing any political party in particular, but the worst offender in Caboolture was the old guard Labor Party. My electorate was the only one In which two Labor candidates contested the eledion. One was from the new guard and the other was from the old guard. The old guard people always seemed to know the houses that the electoral visitor was going to visit. Ndther my party nor the new guard could find out, but somehow the old guard people always turned up at the right place at the right time. I can recall that at the Church of Christ old people's home on Bribie Island appUcation forms were taken from the residents by a woman from the old guard. I wUl not mention her name. The elderly people were worried because they did not recdve any notification. The fad was that the woman did not hand the forms In. Mr Krager: That happens down at Redcliffe In the Buffs' home. The National Party people went there.

Mr FRAWLEY: If the honourable member put a pair of horns on his head he would look Uke a buffalo. In fact, he Is fatter than most buffaloes. As I was saying, the old guard scratineers used to stand over people and virtually teU them how to vote. Mr Krager: In Redcliffe the National Party people rang everybody on the Peninsula.

Mr FRAWLEY: I have just said that no scratineers from any party should be allowed to attend. Mr WUson: How do you get on when a returning officer has a bet with somebody that a certain candidate won't win and he Is counting the votes? What do you do In that shuation?

Mr FRAWLEY: I would get rid of the honourable member. If an infirm person or a i)erson in a wheel-chair Is in a home waiting for an electoral visitor and that person keeps a doctor's appointment, the electoral visitor assumes that that person is fit and weU enough to go to a poUing booth on polling day. I know of one case in which an old lady's husband put her, into his car and took her to a doctor. Electoral visitors should take more care. As the honourable member for Aspley promps me, they should make appomtments. The department Is responsible for remissions of sentences and penalties. I have said many times that the penalties Imposed for some crimes are far too lenient. Recently young people bashed and robbed a 101-year-old lady. I do not know what the sentence will be but I know what It should be. There is far too much bashing. Many old people are being knocked about because they are easy marks. It Is not much trouble to kick a walkmg stick out of an old person's hand. He then falls over, arid It is easy to take money from him. The penalties are not severe enough. I have said on more than one occasion that these criminals should be flogged. They should be tied to a post and belted with a whip if they do things like that to old people. We should also bring back capital punishment In the form of hanging. 3340 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

My father passed away on 31 July 1980. His estate consisted of three 16-perch blocks of land, which he left to my four brothers and me. He had spent all his money looking after his family. He left a home-made will. Mr HOOPER: I rise to a point of order. I move— "That the honourable member for Caboolture table the document." Mr FRAWLEY: I made a dozen photocopies so that I could show everybody. I have here a copy of my father's wiU. He filled In the front of the document. Where it says "Directions for making a will" on the back of the document, he fiUed in the dhections. On the front page he left the three blocks of land to my four brothers and me and on the back of the document he left them to my mother who predeceased him. I had a solicitor acting for me and, for ethical reasons, I will not name him. As a matter of fact, he died of a heart attack about seven weeks ago. It was not caused by this matter, although I do not doubt that the run around he was given by the Titles Office might have contributed to it. When the solidtor went to the Titles Office to obtain the transmission by death of these three miserable blocks of land in a side street in RedcUffe, the Master of Titles said, "That's no good. That's not the right will even though there were two witnesses, because it is written out on the back." We obtained affidavits from the two witnesses stating that it was right, but it was not accepted. The Master of Titles said to the soUcitor, "You must cite me some simUar cases." The solicitor went through a lot of old law books and came up with a whole pUe of stuff. I had a look at it. It must have been six inches high. He gave all this to the Master of Titles, who then knocked the application back. Why the hell didn't he knock it back in the first place? We would have been satisfied. It has cost my four brothers and myself something like $1,500 between us. What would happen to an invalid pensioner, living in a Housing Commission rental home with a wife and a couple of chUdren, whose father died and left him a couple of blocks of land if he had to cough up $1,500—aU because of the nit-picking of some damned public servant in the Titles Office? All the Master of Titles had to say in the first place was, "No," but he dilly-daUied and prevaricated. The solicitor told me that he has been involved in plenty of simUar cases, so I went round to a few other solicitors I know in Brisbane and asked them about the same thing. Every one of them said, "Don't use our names because if you do we wiU get the raw end of the prawn at the Thles Office. Keep our names out of It. Don't mention who we are because we wiU cop it, they wiU delay us." Mr Wilson: That is an indictment of the administration.

Mr FRAWLEY: It is not. How can the Minister be responsible for everything? Because I decided not to try to use any influence but let it go through in the normal course of events, I told the Minister about it only this morning. He said, "You should have written to me and I would have had it investigated." So it is not his fault at aU, My brothers and I can well afford to pay the $1,500; we are not squealing about that. Actually, I suppose we are to a certain extent because It is $1,500 down the drain; we could have given it to the Red Cross or some other charity. But imagine the problems that would be faced by a person who did not have the money. As I said, it aU occurred because of a bit of nit-picking at the Titles Office. AH the person concemed had to do was say, "No, I won't recognise it," Then it could have followed the normal course and gone before a Supreme Court judge for a determination. Mrs Nelson: Do you know that when you go in for probate, they wiU hold It up if you use the wrong colour biro? Mr Jones: Are you blokes going to have a conversation over there? Mr FRAWLEY: I do not mind taking sensible mterjections from the member for Aspley. Since entering this Assembly, she has been a credit to It. Just dlgressmg for a moment—I have never been in favour of women in Parliament; I have always thought we had too many of them; but I must say that the honourable member for Aspley has changed my mind about female members of Parliament. SuK)ly (Esthnates) 10 November 1981 3341

I thank you for your latitude, Mr MUler. I say again that when debating the Estimates of any Minister it is only right that honourable members should raise subjects of this type. This is one of our few chances to have a bitching session and bring up incidents that occur in our electorates. We rarely get the opportunity to do so at any other time.

Mr YEWDALE (Rockhampton North) (8.12 p.m.): In speaking in the debate on the Justices Estimates, I think it is only reasonable to say that the Minister is responsible for a very diverse portfolio. I took the trouble to quickly count the number of Acts that come under the Minister's control. It is about 189. Earlier in the debate I heard a Government member complaining about the delay in receiving advice from the Justice Department on a number of matters that concerned his electorate and his constitutents. I beUeve that complaint applies right across the board. It certainly applies in my electorate and that of my colleague the honourable member for Rockhampton. Members representing country and provincial city electorates are at a disadvantage because members in provincial cities have to go through the local court-house while members in country areas have to go through the CPS office. There are limited numbers of staff in those offices and they have to administer a diverse range of Justice Department activities. It seems that none of the staff is expert in any field, and I refer particularly ,to an apparent lack of expertise relating to approved associations applying for permits for art unions, raffles and so on. Nobody in those offices seems to be able to give inquirers information or assistance; they are told that the matter has to be referred to Brisbane. People are simply handed a form and told, "FiU it out, send it to the Justice Department, it wiU be considered and they will get back to you." It seems to me—and I suggested this tp the former Attorney-General (Mr Lickiss) ^—that senior departmental officers could easily visit court-houses in Rockhampton, Maryborough, Bundaberg and other major towns and familiarise one Officer with one aspect of the Justice Department's activities, and I again refer particularly to permits for art unions and so on. It would make it much easier for the local officers to understand what is required of them, or even enable them to help people fill out forms so that when the form does come down to Brisbane there is no need for it to be sent back with a request for further information. At the point of inquiry, people should be made aware of some basic features of the application forms.

The major populations, the major sporting groups and the major charitable groups that are looking for this type of assistance are situated along the coast. I suggest that the Minister should look at this matter. I shall give an example of what happens in the department administered by his colleague the Minister for Employment and Labour Relations. An officer of thp Consumer Affairs Bureau moves through the various areas, lectures to groups and provides information. Because of the interest in electoral matters throughout the whole State, I do not think it is unreasonable to ask the Minister to consider this matter. I know that leaflets and booklets are avaUable, but often people do not understand the; terminology used in them. I think that the member for Mt Isa (Mr Bertoni) raised, to some extent, the same problem in his electorate. The Minister also Is responsible for the registration and maintenance of State electoral rolls. That, iij^ itself, is a major activity in,the State. My association with the oflicers in the State Electoral Office has been quite good. They have been co-operative at all times. Very often, my own electorate staff can obtain information from the State Electoral Office or pass on information that it requires. However, after each election, it Is found that people have not voted. Some times they are fined and at other times their excuses are accepted. When people ignore notices from the State Electoral Office very often their names are taken off the roll. The latest figures that I have for my own electorate of Rockhampton North—and they may not be entirely accurate—Indicate that some 1185 names were removed from the roll after the last election. I am sure that the majority of those people wUl have to be told that their names are not now on the roH, but the State Electoral Office will not tell them that they are not on the roll. On the last occasion when they did not vote, they were sent a notice, which they Ignored. I do not condone that practice. However, their names have been, removed from, the roU. In the electorate of Rockhampton, some 1379 names were removed from the roU after the last election,, I do not know who tl^ose people are, I wUl probably nave to go through print-outs that are sent to us and try to ascertain just who they are. 3342 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

I will be making Inquiries from the State Electoral Office to try to get a Ust of the people whose names have been removed from the roll. I am prepared to communicate with them on a personal basis, simply to avoid a simUar situation at the next election. We will probably be confronted with a similar sItuatiPn at the next local authority election. The State electoral rolls are used for local authority elections, and those people w|U find themselves iri a siniUar situation. Because the local authority elections are to be held next March, and as there is a three-month residential qualifying period, I think that before the end of this year we should glVe those popple some kind of advice—even by way of a public statement. As I said, I am prepared to contact them individually. I think that the adoption of a joint Commonwealth/State electoral roll, as suggested by the previous Minister for Justice and Attomey-General, would have gone a long vyay tpwards resolving this problein. However, the Minister's departmental officers, or people outside the department, have discarded the suggestion of a joint electoral roU. They wish to retain the present separate State and Federal rolls. It seems to me that the rdention of separate rolls will cost quite a lot of money. I do not believe that the Minister, the Govemment or anyone else has pubUcly justified their retention for future elections as bdng In the best Interests of the community. I beUeve that some other underlying reason, which I cannot put my finger on, has caused their retention. Somebody should justify the separate roUs. A few weeks ago, when the Minister was answering a question on this matter, I gained the Impression from the look on the face of the member for Mt Coot-tha (Mr Lickiss), who was sitting behind him, that he did nd accept the Minister's explanation.

Mr Moore: If I think about It I wlU remark on that when I speak later on.

Mr YEWDALE: I hope the member does so. It Is an Important matter, and Important to the voters of the State. The Opposition regularly criticises the Govemment—and that is quhe easy to dp— but this Is constractive criticism. 1 do not suggest that the Opposhion has a magic wand to resolve all the electoral problems in the State, but the Govemment Is not domg enough. AU politicians are consistently badgered by people who say that they have fiUed m three enrolment cards In so many months but are stIU not on the roU. They want to know what has happened. When parUamentarians ring the department they certainly receive courteous attention. The officers check and say that the department has not caught up with the print-outs or that there has been some other delay. Although the officers are courteous and co-operative In aU respects, that does not solve the problem. Several years ago, my colleague, the member for Rockhampton (Mr Wright) and I were involved m irivestigatirig pyramid seUing. A certain American gentleman was engaging m pyramid selUng In Brisbane and in country areas, which caused many people to lose thousands of doUars. After a great deal of aghatlon that problem was solved. The then Min­ ister for Justice, who is now Sir WiUiam Knox, finaUy Introduced legislation controlling pyramid seUing. I note that one of the Minister's responsibilhies is the Pyramid SeUing Schemes EUmin- atlon committee. That Is a rather unique' title. I may be showing my Ignorance, but I wonder If the committee produces reports, whether they are kept m the departnient, or printed and produced to the Parliament. Who are the personnel who comprise the com­ mhtee? I ask the Minister to conader that point and teU the Chamber what the committee Is doing or has done. Only recently! received an Inquiry about what a person termed pyramid selUng. I doubt that the scheme would f^M into the category of pyramid selUng becaiKe in this case a firm, which I wiH not name at this juncture because I am sure if it is engaged in pyramid selling, had agents handling its detergent sprays. It js quite legal for people to have agents handling thdr products, but in thi^ instance the agents have suibagents w:hp,,in turn, hsye people working for them. Somewhere along the Une one of the agents receives a commission from the agents, the subagents and the final sellers. I will write to the Minister about this because I wish to ascertain If h Is pyramid selUng. I do not want to jump the gun and name the company, although I know Its name. Because I have received an mquiry about this matter I thought h appropriate to raise h this evening. Perhaps I could speak with the Minister personally about It. Suw)ly (Esthnates) 10 November 1981 3343

The Mmister is also responsible for the Smdl Claims Tribunal. I: use that tribunal as often as I can. Because of the way It functions, with Umited costs, a lack of.embarrass­ ment and legal paraphemalla, I recommend that other people use It. In that tribunal smart business people cannot use legal arguments against a consumer or a low-income earner who has some troiible with a product. I halve alWays supported the tribunal and comiriend the Government on establishing It. The maximum claim it handles Is $1,0(X). That covers large consumer articles such as refrigerators, television sets and washing machines. 1 go along with that at the moment, but the figure may need to he reviewed continuaUy because of the movement in prices and wages. If the Umit for the Small Debts Court is stIU $450—I could be corrected on that—I suggest that, In the interests of the smaU businessmen who use It, the figure should be mcreased. Although I suggest that $1,000 is a reasonable level for the SmaU Claims Tribunal at the moment. It should be kept under review, and $450 is certainly too low for the SmaU Debts Court. My coUeague has pointed out that I am wrong in that figure. If the figure that has been reported to me is correct, perhaps it is now at a reasonable level. I do have some doubt about the figure as I have not had time to check it. The Minister controls the enforcement of the Collections Act. He has taken sonie action and made pubUc statements about people collecting door to door who are bogus collectors for charity artd church groups. It seems to me that many people In the community are lulled irito a false sense of security when people knock on the door and say that they are collecting for the Joe Bloggs orphanage. They give money without asking for identifica­ tion. Collectors should have photographs or signatures attached to an identity card. Despite the pubUcity that has been given to the practice, people are still knocking on doors and cadging money under false pretences. I do not know how the problem can be overcome, but the Minister should continue to pursue it. In the ^ovinclal city ifl which I live, we are able to take action through the local media much more quickly and much more easily than is possible in the metropolitan area. '-• <-. The Hire Purchase Ad Is of particular hnportance when one cPnsiders the niimbd- gf people vvlio acquire funds from the hire purphalse coinpanies. What does concern me is that those companies very often allow people to take out finance without checkirig iheir ability toi meet the 'commitment. They ^d them pn the hook and cpminit them oyer a considerable period at conipbund Interest. The figures rise tp a fairly hi^^ level. In addition, the companies require people to ad as guarantors. The niiinber of pepple who have been guarantors for, someone under. a hire purchas,e, agreepjent when in essence they thought they were giving a refd-ence to the person has surprised me. They have been left holding the bag. I haye heard about all the furniture in houses bdng taken away in the night When somebody has dedded to clear out. In some cases relatives haVe been left holding the bag. If statistics were available, the Minister might find that that is happening regularly. ^ , AU sojts of things are being repossessed. I wiU riot go Into the problem of reposs^ipn of moior vehicles and other major Articles. I believe tfiat the coriipahies tend to give money to people and tie them up when they should be knockihg'them back. They should be sayirig, "You'are not viable. Yon wUl have to get yourself in a sounder finandal position before we wiU allow you to enter into such a commitment:" Invariably they fail by the wayside. 'Wheri they do, they come to'niy colleague or me—^probably other'members of Parliament have a similar problem—and the matter goes on and on. The problem is with us aU the time. I tum how to the Residential Tenancies Act. Because there Is no control over Queens­ land landlords and real estate agents In relation to rental charges and bonds under the Residential Teriancies Ad, unscrupulous pepple are imposing fairly large bonds: People must have accommodation. I do not deny the right of the landlord of his agent to protect the property; but the bonds are fairly high. Very'of ten when premises are vacated, for any number of reasons, an argument develops between the tenant and the landlord or the agent. The results of the Small Claims Tribunal published in the Press reveal that the disputes predominantly concem bonds. One finds that in many disputes the referee has raled In favour of the tenant, and that Is fair enough. However the Govemment should adopt a different approach and attempt to prevent disputes. The high rents charged for accommodation reflect the lack of welfare housing. Insufficient rental acccMrimodation exists. That forces some people to move Into more expensive accom­ modation that they cannot afford. Because of sickness or unemployment, the Income of the family unh is decreased and famUies find themselves in trouble. Unscrupulous landlords know the provisions of the Residential Tenancies Act, but they ignore them and teU the 3344 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates) people that they have to get out. They increase rents without notifying the tenants one month in advance. It Is all right for people who know the requirements, but some people are having burdens placed upon them unnecessarily. A never-ending problem exists In relation to rents, eviction notices and bonds. The present Minister is not responsible for welfare housing, but his Government Is. He is part of the Cabinet and Executive. I have given ari example of a housirig problem. I refer to the decision pf the Government, in particular the Executive (TouncUi to introduce a ward system in Rockhampton, As a member of Executive Council and Minister for Justice, the Minister should have some conscience relative to the justice he has meted oiit to the people of Rockhanijpton. (Time expired.)

Mr MOORE (Windsor) (8;32 p.m.): In speaking to the Justice Estimates; first of aU I commend the Minister for the job that he has done. It has always been a wonder to me why since about 1929 or 1932, when Neil Macgroarty was Attomey-General, that we have not had a lawyer as Attorney-General. I am not decrying the ability of the present Mmister for Justice. He is a qualified man, a Bachelor of Agricultural Science, and a,person quite capable of leaming. It always seems to me that Parliaments operate something like the army—If they find that someone is a good carpenter, they wUl make him the cook, and vice versa. The same situation appears to apply In Parliament. At the present time we do not have a lawyer in Cabinet, but at an earlier stage we did. It seems to me that some day, at least as a trial, we should appoint a lawyer as Minister for Justice and Attorney-General. It Is all very well for many departments to say that if we put a lawyer In that office, he would be wanting to give his own expertise, that he would feel that his opinion would be better than that of his departmental officers and that he would not be listening to advice that was offered. A very difficult apprenticeship must be served In any portfolio. The apprenticeship in the Justice portfolio Is a particulariy difficult one. When I visited Melbourne and spoke to lawyers who had associated with the present Minister, they remarked on the very good grasp he had of the situation. Some of them did not realise that he was not a lawyer. However, the Government seems to have adopted the principle of putting square pegs Into round holes—not that I am suggesting that the Minister and his portfolio come within that category. When next a change is made to the ministry. If the new Cabinet contains a lawyer, consideration should be given to giving that lawyer the Justice portfolio. He would be able to see the subtle changes m the law that only a lawyer could see. There Is no shadow of doubt that this Minister is one of the hardest worked Ministers in the Govemment. Furthermore, his committee would be the hardest worked committee. He has weH over 200 Acts to administer. It is virtually an impossible task for him to read the fine print iri all of them, so he is iri the hands of his officers, as are all Ministers, His Is a very difficult portfoUo indeed. The Minister is responsible for the art union legislation. Its provisions requhe persons who conduct art unions to fiU in far too many forms. Certainly controls need to be exercised, but the procedure should be simplified for the benefit of charities and other people who conduct art unions. Their lives should be made easier. If no controls were exercised, unscrupulous pepple would be conducting art unions for thdr own benefit. The Minister is resporisible also for the conduct of State elections arid the electoral rolls. It has been said ad nauseam that the rolls are In a very bad condition. And so they are. The previous incumbent can be blamed for that situation. He was trying to save money. Instead of having the roHs checked once a year by a team of canvassers, he did not give a damn about the rolls. That is the reason why they are presently m a bad shape. The rolls will never be satisfactory until canvassers conduct checks on a regular basis. M The best canvassers were poUce officers. Unfortunately, they were taken off that duty because it was felt they had too much other work to do. If a police officer turned up at someone's home, he was met with a courteous response. If on finding no-one home he asked the neighbour, 'fWho lives next door?" he was told, "Tom Smith and Margaret Smith." Unfortunately, the present canvassers, who have only a small identi­ fication card, are quite often told where to go. They do not have the same sort of authority as that given to a police officer. supply (Esthnates) 10 November 1981 3345

Out at tiiis "kindergarten" known as the Oxley Police Academy, junior students are being paid about $100 a week to do thdr Junior studies and senior students are probably receivmg more to do thdr Senior studies. As a good public relations exercise, the cadets could be used as canvassers so that they could get to know what contact with the public is aU about. What we have now are cradle-to-the-grave poUcemen. The worst thing we can have is a policeman who ha;s never been in society—he is a policeman from the day he leaves school untU the day he retires. One way of givmg police officers early contact with members of the public would be to have them check the electoral rolls. The world is becoming more and more computer controlled. Our electoral rolls are Ml computer. There has been talk in this Chamber about gerrymanders and how there should be a bdter distribution. Members of Parliament represent people, not districts or broad acres. Computers could dish out consecutive names in lots of 82 spread over the whole population of Queensland. Every person would end up having a little card saying, for instance, "Your member is Bob Moore." I would have constituents on Cape York, on the New South Wales border and in CunnamuUa, The distribution would be so evenly balanced that if 42 people changed their minds the Government would faU and if 82 people changed their minds there would be a complete change of members of Parliament, Mr Bums: How do you reckon Joh would cop a scheme like that when he can win with 27 per cent? Mr MOORE: He would not cop it; nor would the honourable member. That is the hyprocrhical part of it. No-one likes a gerrymander more than the honourable member for Lytton and I because the Liberals in my area like to be associated with Liberals and the Labor people in the honourable member's area like being grouped whh people with whom they have some affinity. They are happy to be gerrymandered into a Labor area. So there is no worry about that. My suggestion would be absolutely Mr Underwood: Unworkable. Mr MOORE: It would be unworkable because it would be too fair. If we had a perfect balance, 42 people could change their minds and defeat a Govemment. If there were absolutely equality, that is the stupid sort of thing that would result. In this age of computers we could completely do away with boundaries. We could put everybody's name in the computer and it could ensure that all members had an equal number of electors. We would soon find out what sort of trouble we had created. Mr Frawley: He won't be here next time. Greg ChappeU will bowl him over. Mr MOORE: What good would ChappeU be? A cricketer in this Parliament! Are we in the game af politics or are we belting a baU along a wicket? Fancy saying that a member's attribute is his prowess on the cricket field! He might have other qualities but he should not become a member just because he is a cricketer. Some attention should be given to the jury list. I see no reason why public servants should not be on the jury list. There are thousands of them. Instead of sipping cups of tea they could be doing a worthwhile job. If private enterprise can foot the bill, the Public Senice can foot the Bill. If private enterprise employers are deprived of part of their work­ force for a long time, so should the Public Service. If a plumber employing one man loses him for jury service, he is in real trouble. He cannot gain an exemption, yet public servants can. That is wrong, and it should be remedied. One important aspect of the Minister's portfolio is that a member of the pubUc who has gone through the courts and got nowhere has an ultimate appeal to the Attorney-General. While he cannot allow himself to become deeply involved in every case on compassionate grounds, he can intervene on a person's behalf if it appears there has been a denial of natural justice, and this is good. He also has the right, which he exercises, to appeal against the leniency or severity of a sentence. The Minister was responsible for introducing into Queensland the companies and securhies legislation under which we gave away the right to govem this State to a flango, a body not answerable to this Government. I recently went to Victoria with the Minister to see that body In operation, and I was impressed to a certain extent with its efficiency, although its members admitted to making a few mistakes. I suspect that the 3346 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates) first appointees will be reasonable because they are not certain just where they are gomg or how secure is their tenure, but the longer that qango operates the more autonomous It will become. It is answerable to no-one so it wUl end up mnning the country, because the people who control companies and securities—^they cover virtually all the nation's commerce—can control the nation. The Public Trast Office is another of the Minister's responsibilities. I have not had a great deal to do with it, but whenever I have had to deal with it on behalf of my constituents I have recdved courtesy and consideration. Mr Burns: Pity you don't give it yourself. Mr MOORE: I do not display courtesy and consideration to people who don't deserve h; it is not part of me—certainly not to members. I display it to my constituents. Mr Burns: Good manners never hurt anyone. Mr MOORE: No, they do not, and when I see the honourable member display some, I will emulate him. The Public Trast Office does a very worthwhile job, particularly for relatives of people who die intestate. I believe it would be wise to embark on an advertising campaign to try to induce people to make a wiU stressing that, "Just because you make a wiU, you are not about to die." Many people will not make a will because they think that is the end. They try to wait until the last day, but the last day beats them. We have to encourage people to make a will. I now want to give the lawyers a bit of a touch-up. Mr Scott: You're in a vindictive mood tonight, aren't you? Mr MOORE: No, I am not; I am being kind. There are many good lawyers in the State, but many are lazy, incompetent, charge excessively and do not do their homework or any probing. They are only as good as the intelligence of their cUents, and that Is not what they are paid for; they are paid to do something more. I have had experiences with courts and lawyers on a couple of occasions, and I was successful. I am certain that the success was due not to the lawyer but to me. My research and intelligence won the day for me. Lawyers just do not do the work that is required of them. An odd barrister or solicitor does his work, but the majority do not. Mr Tenni: They charge too much. Mr MOORE: Yes, they do. But not all of them charge too much. Some of them do not charge at aU. The barristers say, "We have a self-regulating board. If things are wrong, the Bar Assodation wUl take us to task." With the solicitors, it is the Queensland Law Society. I have not found this business of barristers and solicitors having theh own bodies to look after them to be very successful. Things seem to get shelved. I have never been happy with either the Bar Association or the Law Society. I deal now with legal aid. It grieves me that today more and more people are turning to the law for assistance. Legal aid is provided for Aborigines and for people who can pass a means test. I have seen an Aborigine overpark at a parking meter. He heads off towards the legal aid office saying, "They have pinched me. I wiU take this to the legal aid people and fight them." There is something wrong when legal aid is provided to fight traffic offences. (Time expired.) Mr TENNI (Barron River) (8.52 p.m.); Tonight I have great pleasure in speaking to the Estimates of the Minister for Justice and AttPmey-General. Firstly, I congratulate the Minister on the way in which he Is handUng his portfollP, and I say that very sincerely. Prompt attention has been given to any problems that I have taken to him. I congratulate the Minister and his staff for being so courteous In attending to problems very promptly. The Minister has also been prompt in replying to correspondence. That is a great help to back-benchers In gettmg back to their consthuents. If he keeps up the good work, I am sure that he and I and other back-benchers will have a very good understanding. Supply (Esthnates) 10 November 1981 3347

It is interesting to look at the ministerial responsibUities of the Minister. He has a massive job to do. I shaU refer to some matters that could be looked at carefuUy. Some have been mentioned by other members. The first matter concerns people who want to become justices of the peace. I think that we should put a stop to some of these applications. Mr Frawley: What about the hippies? Have you had any requests from them? Mr TENNI: Yes, I have had a request from a hippie. His application wUl probably go through because he has no convictions. He does not deal in marijauna. Of course, he is a member of the Labor Party. He wUl become a justice of the peace. He wUl wear hippie clothes and will not have shoes. Seriously, I think that the Government will have to restrict to 12 the number of applications that a member can submit each year. I thmk that that should be a sufficient number for the average electorate. I have a fairly big electorate of more than 20000 people. Mr Frawley: Counting hippies? Mr TENNI: The names of many hippies and Aborigines are not on the roU. Members of the Labor Party put their names on before each election. Labor members crawl through the grass and the rubber vines to do that. I very rarely have any problems with the officers of the Corporate Affairs Commissioner's Office. They are very pleasant and co-operative people to deal vrith. A few snags arise over the issuing of licences for managers of real estate agencies, but overall things go along pretty well. The State Electoral Office has been commented on by a number of my colleagues. I have to agree that until last week I had not received for nearly six months a computer print-out of the new names on my electoral roll. That is' rather serious. As a matter of fact, my electorate secretary said that by the time the print-outs arrive we will need a couple of extra staff to send out the letters. I wish to mention the comments of the Minister for Windsor—I should say the honourable member for Windsor- Mr Frawley: He should be a Minister.

Mr TENNI: I agree with that. He is pretty straight; he does not pull any punches. That is the best sort of person to deal with. The member, for Windsor (Mr Moore) said that police cadets should be used wherever possible, especiaUy in outlying areas that have one-man poUce stations, to check the electoral rolls. The Minister's department should make money available so that pplice or police cadets could do that sort of work outside of their nornial hours. That would not hurt them, and they would probably appreciate the extra money. That Is the only way to keep the rolls updated. ; I do nPt agree that because a person Is a hippie living in the scrab on Crown land he should be able to state his address as being care of the post office at Kuranda or Mossman when in fact he is Ulegally camped on Crown land. In my view unless a person has his own land, is in a rented dwelling or is a permanent boarder at a hotel or a motel, he should not be entitled to be on an electoral roU. The Minister should give consideration to ope;ning a Titles Office In Cairns in the very near future. With the number of transactions being undertaken in the area between InnisfaU and the New Guinea border, the openlrig of such an office is vital, As the Minister probably knows, the Treasurer Is operiing a Stamps Office In Cairns. A Thles Office would have an equal value. Recently the Licensing Commission closed a certain night-club in Cairns. I believe in that case the action was justifiable, ahhough It was a hard decision tP make. I believe that the LIcensirig Commission could take a more lenient view towards clubs in country areas that are tryirig to become established but may riot meet the exact requirements of the comnusslon. Some country areas do not have hotels or other Ucensed premises, and the Licensing Commission should treat the clubs leniently. Mr Hooper: Put a Uttle bh of oomph into it. 3348 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

Mr TENNI: HeUo, Mr Whitlam has returned to the Chamber. He is the supporter of Mr Whitlam, the fellow who wrecked this country. It wiU take us another 10 years to get over the problems he created. Mr Frawley: He is a Hayden man now.

Mr TENNI: Is he? I have always received great co-operation from the Public Trust Office. I have found the Cairns District Public Trustee and his predecessor to be extremdy courteous and helpful. I hope we are able to rdain that type of staff in the area. I know that there wUl be many members who would not agree with me—many people outside would not, although most people in the North would agree with me—when I advocate harsher penalties for people found guUty of growing drags, dealing in dmgs or selling drugs. In my book such a person should be treated in exactly the same way as a murderer. He feeds drugs to the young people of our State and, when they are hooked on one drug, he makes sure that they get on to a heavier one and then get a heavier one again. Those people either commit suicide or die from overdoses. It is just not good enough for magistrates and judges—I condemn them for this; I am sick and tired of it—to impose fines of $400, $4,000 or $10,000—although h is very rare to read of a fine of $10,000. Those people would pull such amounts out of their glove boxes. They obtain it Ulegally by selling drags to the young people of this State, They should be sentenced to the maximum penalty. Dr Lockwood: Death? Mr TENNI: WeH, death if need be. That would not worry me. They are causing so many deaths. The member for Toowoomba North would probably appredate that more than the average member. Doctors come across a lot of this type of thing. Dodors in hospitals and the out-patient departments see what the taxpayers are paying to look after the people picked up by the police and others and taken to hospital because they are under the influence of a drug. The cost to the taxpayer is unreal. It should be looked at on the basis of a minimum penalty for the first and second offences. For a person found guilty of growing drugs, IllegaUy handling drags, or seUing drugs, there should be a 10-year minimum gaol sentence. On the second offence it should be life imprisonment. No punches should be pulled. That is the only way in which we will have any success with that type of person. Any money which can be proved to be illegally obtained through the growing or selUng of drugs should be taken by the Crown and allocated to the Police Force for the patroUing of drug-growing areas throughout this State. I ask the Minister to see what he can do about that. If he brings it up in the joint parties room, he wiU have my full support. It is a must. The majority of people in this State are fed up with the druggies. They are fed up with the way that they are causing a lot of harm to the youth of this nation. I am sure that they would support such action by the Minister 100 per cent. It is not a policy that I normally follow. I do not believe that there should be minimum penalties. However, it Is the only way in which we will be able to correct the very serious problem of drug-taking throughout this State. One of the problems in the North relates to death certificates. I do not know whdher the Minister Is aware of this, but at the moment It takes up to a month to gd a death certificate in the Cairns area. That is just not good enough. It Is a fad. I have sent instances of such delays to the Minister's office. It is just not on as far as I am concerned. For argument's sake, a woman who loses her husband has no ready finance. She has to find $800 or $900 for funeral costs. People from the funeral parlours say to her, "If you pay this in seven days, we wUl take a percentage off." It works out at about $60 or $70 on an average funeral. The insurance company will not pay until the death certificate has come through. People In that situation are also paying rent or paying off a house and borrowing money and paying Interest on that to meet their commitments because the death certificate has not come through to enable them to coUect the insurance to cover all the contingencies. I would like the Minister's department to give Caims exactly the same service that h is giving Townsvilie. Death certificates are made avaUable through the TovrasvUle office within seven days. The Issue of death certificates in Caims is too slow. Immediate actic»i needs to be taken to remedy that. Supply (Esthnates) 10 November 1981 3349

I refer now to the conditions under which some of the Minister's staff work at the court-house at Mossman. I noticed recently that approval had been given by the Minister for Works and Housing for the repair of the dry rot and the whIte-ant-eaten timbers in the court-house/police station complex that should have been puUed down many years ago. I ask the Mmister for Justice to investigate the situation. Plenty of room is available on the present site for the constraction of a new building without disturbing the working environment. The present conditions are lousy. Mossman is a very hot area, but the building is not air-conditioned. The employees have a couple of old fans and Ughts. It is just not good enough. Pressure from the Minister's department through the Public Works Department, with my backing, may bring about some progress. The sooner we do something about the matter, the better for all concerned. I wish to mention the cost of bringing police exhibits from Far North Queensland to Brisbane. If the Government chemical analyst Mr Katter: A terrible case at Hayman Island arose from that.

Mr TENNI: That is correct. A match-box full of suspected marijuana seeds was brought to Brisbane by a police officer. The costs Involved were $300 for the air fare, $50 for expenses for the day, plus other expenses. In addition, a day or two days—some­ times up to a week—of a poUceman's time is lost in an area in which there is a shortage of police officers. That situation has existed for many years, and something must be done about it. I ask the Minister: (a) Does the Act need to be changed so that action be taken in the areas concemed? (b) Can we set up in, say, the beautiful new Department of Primary Industries building in Mareeba, which has one of the most ui>to-date laboratories one could find in Queensland, a Govemment analyst or other officer who can carry out tests similar to those now carried out on exhibits in Brisbane? I am sure that the laboratory has the equipment that is needed. It may have the necessary staff; I do not know. If it has not, staff should be appointed, because a laboratory in Mareeba could cater for the area from south of TownsviUe to the New Guinea border. It would save a fortune in Police Department expenses. Perhaps then Mr Peel would not be on the back of the Minister for Police for overspending, and perhaps some of the money saved could be used to charter helicopters and Ught aircraft for the jMn-pointing of marijuana plantations throughout North Queensland. Right now I know where there are five, and we are trying to find enough money to go out and pin-point them on a map so that we can do a mn through the bush to pick them up. They are not aU In my electorate. One is in the electorate of Mourilyan, one is in the electorate of Cook and three are In my electorate. I am not going to say where they are exactly, but I know that they are there. They have been reported to me, and it is just a matter of pin-pointing them. Perhaps a great deal of the money saved in not having to fly poUce officers to Brisbane and retum could be used for that purpose. I do not think that the cost is a smaU cost, because I regularly see police officers on aeroplanes. I know many of the police officers in Caims and they say that it is absolute stupidity to do that. In his reply, I would like the Minister to give me his thoughts on what can be done. Perhaps the Act should be amended; I do not know. However, whatever needs to be done should be done quickly. Dr Lockwood: Send it by registered mail.

Mr TENNI: That is a good point. Banks send huge sums of money by registered mail. However, I think an Act provides that the object must be under the control or in the personal care of a police officer. That provision must be altered. It may have been all right in the horse-and-buggy days when costs were low, but these days, when the rdurn air fare from Cairns to Brisbane is $300, it is a waste of money. Furthermore, h is a waste of the poUce offi<»r's time. It is a stupid requirement. I hope that just as the Minister was able to solve the problem that arose over the holding of land by the CathoUc Church—his officers came up with an immediate solution and the necessary legislation has been passed—he wUl be able to solve this problem. I am pleased to have had an opportunity to participate in this debate. I look forward to hearing the Minister's comments on the points that I have raised. 3350 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

Mr WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (9.12 p.m.): I was somewhat amazed to hear the statements made by the member for Barron River. Maybe he wUl clarify the position, but I beUeve I heard him say that he is aware of five illegal marijuana plantations iri the northern parts of Queensland, he knows where they are, he can pin-point them, he, says which dectorates they are in Dr Lockwood: He can't pin-point them.

Mr WRIGHT: I beUeve that when we check the "Hansard" puH we wiU see that he said he could pin-point them. If that Is so, the Minister for Justice should conduct an immediate inquiry into this matter, because the member for Barron River is with­ holding vital information on the illegal activities of people who are growing marijuana.

Mr TENNI: I rise to a point of order. This is typical of the Labor Party. I did not say that at aU. I would Uke to clarify the matter because I beUeve the member for Rockhampton is misleading the Committee. I said that I know of five marijuana plantations in Far North Queensland, of which three are in the electorate of Barron River, one is in the electorate of Cook and one is in the electorate of MourUyan. I do not know the areas, and it would require a sum of money to be used to hire heUcopters or light aircraft to pin-point those areas on a map so that a ground search could be carried out. It is impossible in the country In Far North Queensland to do it any other way. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Powell): Order! The honourable member for Barron River has given an explanation concerning the comments he made. I ask the honourable member for Rockhampton to accept his explanation.

Mr WRIGHT: I shaU certainly accept it, and I shall check the "Hansard" proof, because the honourable member for Barron River even said that he was not prepared to give the information over. Therefore, by Implication he Is saying he knows exactly where they are.

Mr TENNI: I rise to a point of order. At no time did I say I was not prepared to give the information over. In fact, the information has been given over to the Super­ intendent of PoUce m Cairns.

Mr WRIGHT: I wiU be checking the ''Hansard" pulls, and I wiU be seeking some co-pperation from the Minister for Justice and the Minister for Police together with others involved at Cabinet level to have that matter investigated. I am sure I have stated exactly what the member said. It Is rather a strange admission to be made by a member of the COmmittee. Mr TENNI: I rise to a point of order. I demand that that comment be withdrawn. It is totaUy false and untrue. I find it ddrimental to me.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable member for Barron River finds the remarks untrae and offensive. I ask the honourable member for Rockhampton to withdraw them.

Mr WRIGHT: As you know, Mr PoweU, it is not possible for me to withdraw the remarks unless I am told which ones are offensive. I have made no offensive remarks to the honourable member. If he expects me to accept his explanation, I wiU do that.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable member for Barron River made it quite clear that he found the remarks that he had not passed on information offensive. I ask that that remark be withdrawn.

Mr WRIGHT: As you reaUse, Mr Powell, I have to bow to your ruling. However, the "Hansard" proofs shall be checked Immediately the opportunity arises, and I wiU expect an apology from the honourable member tomorrow. Supply (Esthnates) 10 November 1981 3351

To get on with my speech—I acknowledge the role played by the Minister for Justice. He has a myriad of issues to administer. For some time now we have seen at least a semblance of a positive approach towards some justice matters in this State. It Is quite obvious that we have a long way to go If we are to achieve justice for ordinary people. At the outset I want to dte the specific problem that we now face in Queensland because of the administration of ex gratia payments under the Criminal Code to victims of violent crimes. For some time the payment was limited to the very smaU amount of $2,0(X). Following pressure from OpposUion members and a couple of Government members it was increased to $5,000. But, regardless of the quantum, Uttle benefit or advantage is given to the innocent victims of violent crime. Instead, regardless of the decisions made by the courts and irrespective of what a judge may deem to be warranted to compensate a victim, the Govemor in Coundl, Cabinet or the Minister for Justice is preventing justice from being done in that the total amount available for such payments is not bdng made available to the victim. As an example, I refer to the case of Jeffrey House of Rockhampton, Some two years ago he was bratally bashed in a local hotel for no reason. The judge believed that he ought to receive the maximum compensation of $5,000 but for no reason—I say that because it has never been explained—the Minister for Justice in his wisdom deemed that the man should receive only $2,000. Regardless of representations there has never been an explanation. We have been given no reason for how that amount was ascertained except that a figure was mysteriously picked out of the air and it is what has been paid to Jeff House. He gave nine years of his life to the Air Force. He was an exceptional sportsman having played Australian rales at A grade level. He was a top life-saver. He was very energetic in every way. Today he Is an invalid. He had numerous operations and is really unable to go about his normal duties. In fact, he depends almost totally on his aged mother. One of the reasons is that he has not been paid enough compensation to enable him to meet the debts that he incurred as a result of his injury and moreover to give him some financial stability to continue enjoying a reasonable standard of Uving. I have heard the Minister say since then, because of pressure, that the quantum would be increased. I suggest that that is not the problem. It seems that it matters little how much is allowable; it comes back to the process used in establishing what payment shaU be made. At the moment it takes a long time. I have known of instances in which it has been three years before a person actually received any compensation. When the money is finally received. It is a pittance compared with the loss incurred. The money is needed immediately. It is needed when the person is injured. Regardless of that, no assistance is being given. I recommend that the quantum be Increased to at least $10,(X)0. Some 10 years ago, when I first raised this issue, the maximum was $2,(X)0 but the average paid was $800. When the maximum was increased to $5,000, the average was just over $2,000. The problem Is that the decision is in the hands of Cabinet. A new system should be Incorporated m the scheme. It should include an initial payment of at least $1,0(X) when a person has been charged, the victim has been shown to have no other means of support and the criminal has been demonstrated to have no way of paying the money. It seems to be the argument of Cabinet that the victim should spend his own money to ascertain how much finance the accused has. Most people who commit such crimes have nothing. They are born losers and they simply do great financial and physical harm to their victims. Let us overcome the problem by introducing a new system under which an initial payment of $1,0(X) is made and, after a reasonable period, a further interim payment of $1,000 Is made. Dr Lockwood: That would pay for only 15 days In hosphal. Mr WRIGHT: I agree, and that Is why I am suggesting that something has to be done. Sometimes nothing is paid for years, irrespective of the medical costs that have been accrued. Finally, the maximum assistance should be given, in line with the judge's decision or that of s tribunal that should be set up to investigate the pUght of the vidim. We seem to care so much about the criminal. In years gone by I wanted to rehabUitate the criminal, because of the cost to society of keeping him m gaol, but surely it is time for us to look at the victims of these crimes, and compensate them in some Way to ensure that 3352 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

they gd immediate benefit when they are in need. It is obvious that this Government needs to adopt a more caring attitude; it needs to act more expeditiously. It also needs to give greater cognisance to the recommendations of judges. So let us streamline the system and come up with some type of tribunal that wiU investigate the pUght of the victims that will recommend and enforce the payment that they deserve. It seems that this Govemment acts only when it is shamed into doing so. That was certainly so with the Linfoot shooting and a couple of other instances of violent crime. I should hate to think that we had to use Jeff House as another shaming episode but, if necessary, for the sake of Jeff House, that is the way it wUl have to be. The other matter I want to raise centres on corporate crime. In answers to questions this morning the Minister advised me that 119 companies are under investigation or on file. He then said that in the past 22 months 254 companies have been investigated. When we contrast that 254 with the other information he gave to the Assembly—that only 10 charges had been laid in that period and nine convictions obtained—^we must start to question a number of aspects of corporate investigation and prosecution in this State. I quickly add that some 496 charges were laid against companies for failure to lodge annual returns. That might sound impressive but it clouds the real issue. I do not want to cast aspersions on the 11 investigators—the 10 accountants and the lawyer involved—^because I bdieve they are doing an excellent job withhi thdr terms of reference and within the capadty, legally and from an expert point of view, that they have. We have to understand that westem society is plagued by corporate white-collar criminals. It has been estimated that the activities of corporate criminals and white- coUar activists are costing this State and every other State millions of dollars a year. I appreciate also that it is always difficult to pin-point tiie problem until the feUow has got away with most of the money. I know, too, after speaking to Fraud Squad detectives and people in Corporate Affairs, that sometimes an activity can go on for years before it is realised what is occurring. I accept that the curative approach is difficult. It is for that reason that I come to this Assembly and suggest that we adopt a preventative approach. I could probably spend time in categorising the various types of white-collar criminals, but we have to appreciate that there are many and varied types of criminals or persons who are prepared to grasp the advantage that they might have because of their privUeged position as accountants, lawyers, or business managers, to benefit themselves at the expense of others. The fact of the matter is that a criminal element operates within business, and as much as we would like to say that we ought to maintain the basic commercial objective of people with a like interest being able to pool their resources and pursue that interest, we have to protect society. The Minister for Justice has made known his concem on a number of occasions about the white collar criminal, those who give warranties for 20 years and have no chance whatsoever of being able to fulfil them. They promise services. They deliberately and wantonly involve themselves in massive costs with suppUers and manufacturers, knowing fuH well that there is no way they wiU be able to service the debt. How can we overcome the problems iwsed by these people if free enterprise is to prevail? I do not want to see free enterprise disappear. I Uke to think that individual initiative has been important to the growth of this country, but I also appreciate that government has a responsibility to protect the community. If we are to adopt a preventative approach, we have to stamp hard on those people who, first of all, have a history of defalcation of funds, or of involving themselves in activities that are anti-consumer and anti-community. I also appreciate that under section 374H of the Companies Act 1961-1981, the Gov­ ernment has the right to prevent a director from being able to pursue some other com­ mercial activity. That provision is new. The trouble at the moment is that there is no up-to-date register. It is difficult for the Corporate Affairs Office to know which director has been involved in what. When a person applies to incorporate a company, he is not required to say in what adivlty he has been involved. No crinunal check Is made. If a person wants to become an auctioneer or agent under the Auctioneers and Agents Act, a thorough criminal investigation Is made, and he has to give information that can incriminate him. There are no such requirements when a person wants to set up a company which, in a few years, may Involve Itself in transactions worth hundreds of thousands of doUars, He can do what he Ukes; he can set himself up in a swimming-pool or house-cladding Supply (Esthnates) 10 November 1981 3353 company, go bankrapt, go into liquidation or go out of business by simply not registering the company next time. He can wait three months, form another company under a different name with the same directors and same place of operation, and be in business again. That has happened time and again, but nothing has been done about it. I suggest that prevention is more important than cure. Every person applying to set up a company should be required to make a clear and precise in-depth and detailed statement of his previous business involvement, espedally in other companies. There should be a very high penahy for giving false information. There must be deterrents for those who are prepared to falsify the information that they give to Government. A random-checking system should be introduced so that, irrespective of the information provided with the application, investigators within the Corporate Affairs Office can go back and check out a firm. There should be an on-gdng register of those firms that have gone out of business. The Minister for Employment and Labour Relations (Sir William Knox) said that 3 000 smaU firms went out of business in the 18-month period during which late-night trading has been in operation In Queensland. I am sure that many others have gone out of business because they have been pushed out by the false practices of white-collar criminals. We ought to know who are the directors of companies. An on-going register of directors ought to be kept. There should be greater Uaison between the SmaU Claims Tribunal and the Corporate Affairs Office. To ensure that we protect the consumer or customer, the manufacturer and the retailer who might deal with that manufacturer, we ought to consider introducing insurance policies similar to those that are provided under the house builders' legislation. Builders are required to take out insurance poUcies to protect the people for whom they build homes. Another alternative is the estabUshment of a trast fund. There are such funds for lawyers and auctioneers. Why cannot a similar trast fund be established for firms that are set up and give long-term warranties? A firm can start up, build a dozen swimming-pools costing $6,000 or $7,000 each and give warranties worth $60,000 or $70,000 for the next 10 years. The same thing can happen with house-cladding. I shall not name the firm, but 27 cases were brought against one firm in the SmaU Claims Tribunal. Mr Bums interjeded.

Mr WRIGHT: That was not the one I was thinking of. I also believe that we should look at the possibiUty of estabUshing a system for granting a licence to trade. It would clearly define the area in which a firm can trade. Too often, a shelf company structure aUows a business to operate anywhere. Such operations should be restricted in some way. A person who wants to become an auctioneer is required to state that that wiU be his activity. A person who wants to become a home builder is required to state that that will be his activity, and he should be so registered. The same conditions should apply to any person engaged in a manufacturing industry. He ought to state his area of trading and get a Ucence for it. If that were done it would provide a way to overcome the problem. After a number of complaints are made against a person or firm, the Ucence to trade could be suspended or withdrawn. A tougher approach could be adopted so that a person or firm could be penaUsed. I am concerned about the consumer and others in the industry. The rogues in the building and swimming-pool industries affect the profitabUity and viability of those who are trying to do the right thing by the community and who want to be in business for 20 years, not two minutes. We should ensure that there are significant deterrents and penalties. I would like to see something done about $2 companies but I see no immediate answer. If we take the preventive approach of registering directors who are constantly in and out of businesses, who aUow their businesses to wind down, who constantly give warranties and get involved in the questionable areas of home-planning and home-improvement, we will protect a lot more people than we are at the moment. We must also strengthen the powers of the prosecution and investigation section to ensure that its officers can act immediately to freeze accounts and take possession of books and computer tapes. Those involved in this field have told me that they can have good information about what is going on but be unable to act, and that by the time they can act, no evidence is available. I do not want to unnecessarily take away the rights of those in busmess to involve themselves in free enterprise and take the normal risks that are part and 3354 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates) parcel of it, but we have to proted the overaU community. We have to ensure that the risk of being caught for corporate crime is not as remote as it Is today. We have to break down the defences and remove the procrastmation. (Time expired.)

Hon. S. S. DOUMANY (Kurilpa—Minister for Justice and Attorney-General) (9.31 p.m.): I have been impressed by the standard of the debate on the Estimates of my department. Obviously honourable members on both sides of the Chamber have realised the impact that the Justice Department has on the people of Queensland. In fad, if one was to examine the Acts for which my department is responsible, one would immediately notice that the department touches on the Uves of everyone at some time or another between the cradle and the grave. In my introductory remarks I drew the attention of the Committee to the need for the law to be brought closer to the people. After listening to honourable members' con­ tributions, I can see that they have recognised that important role and the ramifications that it has for society in general. Honourable members might give consideration to encouraging their constituents to make a positive contribution to the law and law-making in the State. Before legislation is finaUy passed the community is invited to comment on proposals that are laid on the table of the Parliament. That provides for the widest possible canvass of public opinion. In the very limited time that is available I propose to deal with the contributions of honourable members, but it may not be possible for me to deal with detailed points. However, I assure honourable members that from the record of the debate and from the careful notings by my officers throughout the debate I will take into account aU the points that have been made. The requests for information will be met as soon as practicable. The honourable member for Wolston, who opened the debate for the Opposhion, spent some time discussing the question of casinos and related matters, which are more closely linked with other portfolios, other than the licensing provisions. The honourable member also indicated that in the future he would bring further information to the Parliament about a particular casino applicant. I can only await those revelations. The honourable member for Aspley made a number of important points and Indicated her concern about the availability of legal aid to deserted wives. Everybody who seeks legal aid is subject to the means test laid down under the prescribed guide-lines. Under section 29 of the Act the Legal Aid Commission has to be satisfied that the matter is likely to terminate in favour of the applicant. If a deserted wife comes within the criteria laid down, she is eligible for legal aid. If she is refused legal aid, she is entitled to have her application reconsidered and, if necessary, referred to an independent review committee. If the honourable member for Aspley can provide me with details of specific instances, I certainly wiU be happy to bring them to the attention of the Director of the Legal Aid Commission. The honourable member also raised several matters conceming the Public Trustee. It is incorrect to suggest that the efficiency of the office of the Public Trastee has been diminished because of the lack of staff. The abolition of death duties did allow a redudion in staff, but numbers have been stable since then. In aU Australian States the Public Trastee manages the estates of incapable persons as a normal procedure. However, in Queensland, under the provisions of the Mental Health Act the Supreme Court may appomt some other person, such as a relative, to attend to the management of the estate. Further­ more, applications may be made to the Supreme Court and In some instances to the Mental Health Review Tribunal for an order that the Public Trustee's management cease on the grounds that the person concerned Is now capable of managing his or her estate. It is a fundamental policy of the Public Trast Office to consult whh dose relatives and. In appropriate cases, whh the Incapable persons themselves In regard to Important questions In the management of the estate. The honourable members for Aspley, Mt Gravatt and Cooroora commented on the proliferation of entertainment machines. I think other honourable members also commented on amusement machines. The proposals of some honourable members have been noted Supply (Esthnates) 10 November 1981 3355 whh interest. I assure all honourable members that very careful control is bdng maintained on the licensing of entertainment machines. Under the present guide-lines such machines may be provided and conducted only at a site approved by the Under Secretary of the department. Before she approval Is given, the views of the occupiers of premises in the vicmity are sought, as weU as those of the local police, the local authority and, where it is m close proximity to a school, the school principal. Each application for approval to provide and conduct entertainment machines is dealt with on its own merits and, if a site is considered unsuitable, the application is refused. When approval is granted, if it is considered necessary, conditions are imposed on the hours of operation of machines. Those restrictions are usually applied to premises in close proximity to schools. Complaints received about the operations of entertainment machines are investigated by the department and existing approvals may be cancelled should the circumstances warrant it. The department's poUcy in relation to the provision and condud of entertainment machines is subject to continuous moiutoring. Any problems that arise and are brought to our attention are dealt whh as expedhiously as possible. I will certainly also look at the suggestion of the honourable member for Mt Gravatt about prior advertising by appUcants to facUitate the lodgment of objections. If that procedure would streamline the system, I certainly would seriously consider its introduction. The honourable member for Mt Gravatt also made suggestions about taking the law closer to the people by such means as simplifying the expression of the law and having h wrhten in a language that can be easily understood by the general community. The honourable member expressed a desire also to have legislation and regulations readily available to the public. Those points are well made and are taken. My department is currently arranging to have legislation reprinted in loose-leaf form, with the Acts in most use bdng given priority. Arrangements have also been made for each department to update its regulations. Furthermore, the Standing Committee of Attorneys-General is considering and examining the introduction of computerised legal information rdrieval systems. We are also looking at expanding our public education program, which I hope will include the introduction of projects for inclusion in schools. The honourable member for South Brisbane made a number of points. First of all he raised the matter of discrimination against persons, and particularly women, obtaining credh. Any complaints on this matter would be more likely to be directed to my colleague the Minister for Employment and Labour Relations, and particularly the Consumer Affairs Bureau, which comes within his portfolio. No significant complaints have been lodged with officers coming within my jurisdiction relative to the obtaining of credit from organisations registered under legislation administered by such officers. The Invasion of Privacy Act administered by the Registrar of Commercial Acts sets forth the rights of consumers who may be denied credit on the basis of information contained In credit reports supplied to business organisations by a credit reporting bureau. In essence this legislation provides that where a consumer is refused credit based on information the whole or part of which is contained in a credit report the user of that report is obliged to notify the consumer of the basis of refusal and the name and address of the credit reporting agent. In turn the credit reporting agent is obliged whhin 14 days of a written request to furnish the consumer with the nature and substance of aU information contained in the credit report. If the information Is disputed by the consumer the agent is required to investigate the matter, advise the consumer of the results of the investigation and if the information cannot be substantiated or verified to delete it from his records and to advise all users of credit reports in the last six months containing the disputed information that such details have been deleted from its records.

The honourable member for South Brisbane also referred to a drop In enrolments on the State electoral roll. There was a substantial reduction of 62 000-odd people who were erased from the rolls after the 1980 general election because they did not reply to the Principal Electoral Officer's letter of inquiry or letters were retumed undaimed, and about 72 000 enrolment cards were waiting to be processed while new techniques in the computer were being finalised. The majority of those cards have now been processed and the total enrolment as at 30 October this year is 1309 561. As far as a joint enrolment card Is concerned, discussions are to be continued with the Commonwealth Government. The Premier has 3356 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

advised the Prime Minister that if h is possible to agree on a joint enrolment card for the convenience of electors, then we will certainly be prepared to embark upon such a venture. New computer systems recently introduced into the State Electoral Office now ensure that a person who lodges a correctly completed enrolment card may receive an acknowledgement within 10 days of the card's receipt by the Principal Electoral Officer. As previously stated by me in this Chamber, the Elections Act and aU associated procedures are under review. There wUl be a reintroduction of regular canvassing on a fuU and comprehensive basis. Opposition Members interjected.

Mr DOUMANY: I would like to move to the contribution to the debate by the honourable member for Isis. I wiU not take interjections because time is very limited. If I am going to cover honourable members contributions, I cannot have time eroded by interjections. The honourable member for Isis expressed concern about the problem of under-age drinking. That is a matter for investigation and handling by the poUce. I share his concern about this matter. Any complaints received by the Licensing Commission in that regard are referred direct to the police. If a licensee has three convictions dealing with under-age drinking the Licensing Commission can call on him or her to show cause why the licence should not be forfeited. The honourable member for Isis also referred to the multiplicity of duties of clerks in Magistrates Courts offices where often they are acting for more than 20 Govemment departments or instramentalities. The problem of providing adequate training to officers spread Statewide in this regard is obvious. Nevertheless, administrative procedures operate to provide the best possible training for clerks of the court and their staff. They include training seminars and the issue of manuals of procedures. The honourable member for Chatsworth, who is always a lively contributor to these debates, provided information about Homdocators, Compusearch and House & Flat Rental Service. They are three companies about which he has very serious concem. In 1975, the Auctioneers and Agents Act was amended by way of section 71A which was introduced to make it unlawful for any person other than a licensed real estate agent to seU or offer for sale lists of properties avaUable for rental. I am able to advise the honourable member that from preUminary information that has been provided to me from the Office of the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs each of the businesses conducted under the business names referred to appears at this stage to comply with section 71A of the Act. If the honourable member has more information, I would be glad to receive it and have it examined. The honourable member for Chatsworth referred to the matter of time off for returning officers before and after elections. I can inform him that that matter is being considered in the current review of the State Elections Act and the rearrangement of the Electoral Office, In fact, all facets of the work performed by returning officers are bemg reviewed. As part of that review I am giving high priority to a full and comprehensive training course for retuming officers and their staff. The honourable member for Sherwood took a great deal of time to remark on the Lucas report, on police investigations in particular, and on the necessity for maintaining the independence of the judiciary. I listened to him with great Interest. As to the independence of the judiciary, I can tell the Commhtee that I have made my views on this matter well known in recent times. In this Chamber I have stated categorically that my judgment as to the appointment of justices at any level wUl not be coloured or influenced by pressure from any group or person within the community. I can assure the honourable member that my public stance on the necessity for maintaining the independence of the judiciary and appointments therein has not changed one lota since the last time I spoke to it.

The honourable member for Cooroora, Mr Simpson, raised questions relating to real estate agents. I am able to assure him that the Auctioneers and Agents Act contains sufficient provisions to require that agents have proper knowledge and experience before they Supply (Esthnates) 10 November 1981 3357 are licensed. Further, the operations of their trust accounts are governed by the Act and any complaint relating to such accounts is Investigated by inspectors from the office of the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs. The honourable member for Lockyer suggested that a Thles Office should be operated in Toowoomba. I shaH give serious consideration to his suggestion. In fact, the service offered by the Thles Office Is constantly under review, particularly as business is growing at such a tremendous pace in this State. However, as the honourable member is no doubt aware, the limhed nature of our funds and resources make it difficult to extend services of this nature in the short term. The honourable member for Lytton made a lively contribution to the debate. I point out to him that my department is constantly reviewing court procedures with a view to reducmg delays. A full-time commissioner of the Law Reform Commission is at present reviewing the Supreme Court with a view to effecting improvement. I have recently enlarged the establishment of the 'Law Reform Commission to enable it to increase its valuable work. Ahhough the court system as it operates in this country and in this State has its share of critics, we stUl are among virtuaUy a handful of countries in which a fair trial is still a right. There is no legislative requirement for an annual report of the Justice Department. I think that the honourable member for Lytton is aware of that. Any information of a public nature is readily available and can be supplied to the honourable member on request. There is no attempt to cover up or to keep information secret. If the honourable member has been refused information of a public nature, he should advise me in detail and I will see that appropriate action is taken. The honourable member for Mt Isa raised a number of matters. First of aU, he mentioned the registration of remote-area postal voters. That is one matter that Is being closely examined in the current review of the Elections Act and procedures. He also raised the matter of adequate remuneration for the bailiff at Mt Isa. This matter has received the attention of my department and I am pleased to be able to inform the honourable member that the full-time salaried position of bailiff was advertised recently and will be filled in the near future. I wUl arrange for the honourable member's proposal for cancellation of the Family Law Court circuit to be brought to the attention of the commonwealth authorities. I would appreciate having detaUs of complaints against solicitors and the administration of art unions brought to my attention for examination. That is a point that the honourable member for Mt Isa brought forward. The Companies Act contains provisions that prevent a person from being involved in the management of a company when he or she has been convicted of a serious offence, or involved with companies that have through mismanagement fallen into financial difficulties. As to white-collar crime—I assure honourable members that I am acutely conscious of h. I know this matter has been raised by a number of members today. One proposal that I am looking at very closdy is for the establishment of a register that may have something of a points system attached to it. Therein lies the core of the problem. We can only gd at this issue by getting at the shonky directors. If we cannot get at the people concemed, we cannot get to the problem. I assure the Committee that some determined action will be taken. I have every resolve to do something about those who continually take down honest and vulnerable citizens in the community. It is high time that they were dealt with In the most severe fashion possible. Mr Wright: WUl you toughen up the application so that we will know who is applying? Mr DOUMANY: That would be part of such a scheme. The honourable member for Archerfield, in his usual colourful manner, referred to the activities of various agencies and companies. He referred to the activities of Alpex on the Gold Coast. It is sufficient for me to say In reply that the activities of that group are presently subject to inquiries by the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs Office. Mr Hooper: I am not wrong, am I? 3358 10 November 1981 Supply (Estimates)

Mr DOUMANY: The honourable member is rarely wrong on the spectacular side of subjects of this sort. I cannot deny that. He made reference to the operating expenses of permanent building societies and singled out the SGIO BuUding Society. Desphe the fact that that society's expenses have mcreased in the last financial year, it was a commercial decision taken by it In a very competitive market-place. As a consequence it has been able to Increase Its market share with a growth factor last financial year of over 12 per cent. Perhaps the honourable member should consider that piece of information and relate it to his criticism. The honourable member for Rockhampton North made general reference to a suspect pyramid seUing scheme. If he is prepared to give me full detaUs—and he has indicated that he will—the matter wiU be investigated by the Corporate Affairs Office and examined by the Pyramid Selling Schemes Elimination Committee. This commhtee is highly qualified and responsible for administering legislation which contains severe penalties for pyramid selling. The committee also has power to declare activities Ulegal and to ban them. I can tell the honourable member that it is anticipated that the current maximum Umit of $450 that applies to the Small Debts Court will be Increased as a result of a review. The processing of applications for art unions, etc., and the training of court-house staff in these procedures is a matter which is given serious attention by my department. Court-house staff are supplied with manuals on art union applications, and officers of the Art Unions Section of my department regularly attend country centres where they give public lectures. Other contributions came from the honourable members for Caboolture, Barron River and Rockhampton. The honourable member for Caboolture raised a serious matter concerning the Titles Office. I regret the difficulties that he experienced with his father's estate. If he wUl make specific detaUs avaUable, I will have the matter closely examined. The honourable member for Barron River was concerned about death certificates and the present delay in issuing them to country centres. Recently I introduced administrative procedures in hardship cases whereby a letter to the effect that a particular person died on a particular date will be issued by a district registrar as an interim measure. Hopefully that wUl suffice for the purposes of insurance and other areas that relate to alleviation of hardship. I take this opportunity to express my thanks for the valuable assistance rendered to me by my Under Secretary, Mr Pearson, and his experienced staff during this debate. I also place on record my thanks to honourable members who have exhibited a tremendous wUlingness to become involved in the debate on my Estimates. My thanks go also to the members of the Hansard staff and the media who have exhibited great patience in listening to and recording the contributions. I pay tribute to the judiciary and the magistracy for the manner In which they carry out what are at times very arduous duties in the area of justice in this State. The people of Queenslarid are fortunate to have such competent and concerned people involved in the administration of justice in Queensland. At 9.55 p.m.. The CHAIRMAN: Order! Under the provisions of the Sessional Order agreed to by the House on 8 October, I shall now put the questions for the Vote under consideration and the balance remaining unvoted for Justice and Attomey-General. The questions for the foUowing Votes were put and agreed to— Justice and Attomey-General—

Chief Office, Department of Justice 3,866,468 Balance of Vote, Consolidated Revenue and Trast and Spedal Funds .. .. 90,775,582 Progress reported. Industrial Development Act Amendment BUl 10 November 1981 3359

INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT ACT AMENDMENT BILL Second Reading—^Resumption of Debate Debate resumed from 29 October (see p. 3258) on Mr Sullivan's motion- "That the BiU be now read a second time."

Mr HANSEN (Maryborough) (9.57 p.m.): The BiU contains four major changes and probably defines more clearly sections of the Act already In operation. In introducing the BiU, the Minister referred briefly to the history of the legislation, which was introduced principaUy to assist in the development of industry within Queensland and to relieve unemloyment. Because of the need to decentralise the development of industry, the assistance offered was loaded slightly in favour of areas outside the city of Brisbane—two-thirds of the estimated maximum lending value of an industry located within the city of Brisbane, and three-quarters of the estimated maximum lending value of an industry located outside the city of Brisbane. The Minister has listed four of what he caUed the essential changes that the BiH wiU make. The first change is in the definition of an applicant. The BUl vrill aUow an applicant to seU a property on which he has received a loan, either by way of advance or by way of guarantee, and the person to whom he sells the property then becomes the applicant for the remainder of the term, subjed, of course, to the Minister's consenting to the loan being contmued. As I understand it, it has not always been possible to obtain such consent. I ask the Minister: What would the position be in regard to Flameless Incineration Pty Ltd, which received a loan from the Industrial Estate Maintenance Fund? Would the same conditions apply to the persons who took over the manufadure of flameless inciner­ ators? I take it that that firm recdved assistance because it was considered to be a pioneer industry. Mr Bums: Pioneer borrowers.

Mr HANSEN: I do not know about "pioneer borrowers". I think that the firm was very experienced. It recdved a loan on very good terms. I refer to the floods In Brisbane in 1974, when a number of people in business were given immediate access to funds to enable them to repair or replace machinery or goods that had been lost. That certainly enabled them to quickly re-establish their viabiUty. Under the Industry and SmaH Business Flood Relief Scheme that was introduced at that time, provision was made for the making of loans of up to $25,000 at an interest rate of 5 per cent to people who had suffered some loss in the floods. I understand that 590 appUcations were received. EventuaUy, about 405 appUcations were approved. A total of $14,114,665 was advanced to 380 business enterprises to enable them to get back into production quickly. Anyone who has had any experience with floods will know it is necessary to make a quick decision whether to continue or whether to walk out and cut one's losses. That money, which was made available by the Federal Govemment for the first time, enabled many people to carry on. In looking at the records of the department, I note that in only one or two cases have the obligation not been met by the smaU businesses concemed. Naturally, the prime purpose of the BiH is to assist Queensland industry. Previously there was some doubt as to whether it could apply to companies that were not incorporated in Queensland. That provision is now being spelt out. Companies operating in Queens­ land, even if they are not incorporated here, wiU be able to receive assistance for a project in this State. The type of advance available has been widened to aUow the financing of loans subject fb Government guarantees or by means such as commerdal bills and related types of finance. It is true that there are many types of finance, and leaving the door open provides an opportunity for industry to obtain a loan of that type. I understand that the department is empowered to raise debentures, which it can use for loans, although under successive Ministers it does not seem to see hself as being a financier like, say, the Agricultural Bank and other finandal institutions. Nevertheless, it does borrow money from time to time. 3360 10 November 1981 Industrial Development Act Amendment Bill

In duailing the history of the Act the Minister referred to the development of industrial estates. Most of the guarantees and loans have been provided to industries establishing on industrial estates, and that helps to encourage industry in aU part of Queensland. I see no reason why the Opposition should not support the changes that are proposed. The BiU also clears the interpretation of the Ad by givmg trustees and legal repre­ sentatives handling estates—^people with powers of attomey and the Uke—the power to be eligible as applicants for full financial assistance. When the death of one of the pro­ prietors occurs, any previous negotiations should be allowed to continue under the same circumstances with the understanding that the commitments wiU be met. An amendment of section 22 of the Act provides for increased penahies when people do not meet the commitments that they have undertaken. Under those circumstances they shall be guilty of an offence and liable to a penalty not exceeding $200, which may be recovered in a summary way under the Justices Act. I do not know how that wUl apply but it seems to me that when loans of $100,000 or $200,000 are being undertaken a fine of $200 is no deterrent. I do not know whether the fine is calculated in a cumulative way because, as I understand it, once these guarantees have been made the method of repayment is usually half-yearly. In the case of a payment not being made, would a further fine apply and what grace would be allowed to those people? If the money is to be recovered in a summary way, do the people get any grace at aU. Some years ago a $200 fine may have been considered to be a deterrent, but I do not think that is so today. In the debate on the Estimates of the Justice Department, some members mentioned that people get into all sorts of financial difficulties and find themselves in a position where they consider they might as well go for broke and be hung for a sheep as a lamb. I do not think that a fine of that order is a sufficient deterrent, although I leave that to the judgment of the Minister and his advisers. The Opposition does not oppose the amendments and I welcome them as they more clearly spell out the current position.

Mr YEWDALE (Rockhampton North) (10.8 p.m.): My contribution will be of a fairly parochial nature as I wish to spend a few minutes speaking about an industrial estate that is predominantly sited in my electorate, that is the Parkhurst Industrial Estate. Over a considerable period the estate has been neglected by the Government. I do not know why that is so but my criticism is constructive in the sense that it has been weU over a decade since the estate has been established and it is certainly a long way from being active and viable for a provincial city the size of Rockhampton. I have noted the development of the estates in Maryborough, Gympie, Bundaberg, Gladstone and through to Rockhampton. The attention given to the Gympie estate by the previous member and Minister has certainly developed it a great deal. The industrial estate in Maryborough is probably worse than Parkhurst. The Bundaberg estate is certainly a long way ahead of those in Maryborough and Rockhampton. For many years the estate itself has had as its caretaker the Regional Promotion Bureau in Rockhampton. That organisation recently amalgamated wath the Capricorn tourist organisation. Currently they are the caretakers of that estate. One of the pertinent arguments that arises with the Parkhurst Industrial Estate is that some of it is situated in the Livingstone Shire, which is part of the Callide electorate, and runs down to Yeppoon. The portion within the Livingstone Shire is under the control of the shire, but the major portion of the estate is within the boundaries of Rockhampton and under the control of the two organisations that I mentioned have amalgamated. My colleague referred to a figure of $100,000 in loans—and I am sure that the member for Lytton will comment about that matter; I do not intend to deal with it at all—but it would seem that a bit more money could have been spent and a bit more encouragement could have been given to the Parkhurst estate over a number of years. I would think that we should have received some special consideration to develop the estate by making some offers to pioneer businesses to establish there, bearing In mind Its distance from Brisbane compared with Bundaberg, Gympie and other areas which are within easy reach of the metropolitan area and the major concentration of the consuming public. We are just too far away to Induce businesses to establish there, because of the costs involved in transporting products by road or rail to Brisbane. I rdterate that Gympie and the other places are much Industrial Development Act Amendment Bill 10 November 1981 3361 closer. Further north, the position Is different again. The population of TownsviUe— 95 000 people—can provide a market for industrial development. The North Queensland area, with TownsvUle as hs hub, provides a large consumer markd for any goods produced in that area. Whether the Minister Is aware of what has happened at Parkhurst, I do not know. The fact is that the Government recently saw fit to designate an industrial site at Yeppoon itseff. I supported and applauded that. At the time the Regional Promotion Bureau was keen to be caretaker of both estates, because it helped that organisation, which promotes Rockhampton and Central Queensland, to be financially viable to some extent through the payment of the caretaker fees by the Govemment. Mr Peter Warren, who was the manager of that promotion bureau for many years, has now left the job. The Livingstone Shire Council and the Rockhampton City Council are to a large extent answerable for the continued dispute about this estate. I believe that the mayor of Rockhampton and the chairman of the Livingstone Shire could still be approached. I know that certain tentative approaches have been made. However, they have never come to fruition because the Livingstone Shire Council jealously holds its section of the estate. Although there is no major industrial development, other than the estabUshed cement works, it is certainly valuable real estate on the border of a major provindal dty. The Livingstone Shire is certainly not keen to allow that land to be annexed by the Rockhampton City Coundl. By the same token, it has aheady established a smaller estate in terms of acreage at Yeppoon. The major portion of the Capricorn Coast population Is between Emu Park and Yeppoon, which in itself is a thriving coastal township. Therefore, I suggest that the Minister again open up the question of the Parkhurst estate with the people concemed. There are problems servidng the estate in terms of sewerage, power, water, etc. Part of the estate has been functioning for quite some time. As far as I know, the enterprises which are established there are viable. A great deal of self-help has got them where they are. I believe that a new organisation moving In there now Is mvolved in modular homes. The name eludes me at the moment, but it has publicly stated, that it wlU estabUsh on the Industrial estate In Rockhampton. Some time ago Dixon Homes Pty Ltd was interested, and I would be very interested to know why k did not go ahead with hs proposal. I bdieve that there was a nigger in the woodpile, but I have not been able to come up with any concrete Information. Rather than prolong the debate, I sincerely suggest that the Minister look again at the Parkhurst estate. Although Rockhampton may be said to have been fairly dormant over a period of some time In respect of industrial development, it is on the verge of moving ahead. Development in the hinterland is taking place. The new power-station at Stanwell wUl come on line in a few years' time. It wUl be in the interests of the Government, business generaUy and the Central Queensland community to move forward on the Parkhurst Industrial Estate to make it a much more viable and active area than what h has been in the last few years.

Mr BURNS (Lytton) (10.16 p.m.): Having read the Audhor-General's Report on Departmental Accounts and Other Accounts for 1981, I have waited whh some interest to see an amendment to the Industrial Development Act 1963-1979. I remmd the House that the Auditor-General stated— "An advance by way of loan for $100,000 for a term of fifteen years attracting interest at the rate of one per cent per annum for the last ten years of the term has been made by the Department to Flameless Incineration Pty. Ltd. for the purpose of developing fluidized bed technology in connection whh the construction of a tonne per hour Flameless Incineration PUot Plant at the Cannon Hill Abattoir. Approval for the payment of the loan was recorded In Executive CouncU Minute of 10th May, 1979 and advances of $72,500 and $27,500 in 1978-79 and 1979-80. respectively, were made from the Estates Maintenance Fund. The Industrial Development Act 1963-1979 under which the Estates Maintenance Fund was created does not provide for the making of loans from this Fund nor does the Act provide for loans of this nature to be made from other sources. No security was taken for the loan." 3362 10 November 1981 Industrial Development Act Amendment BiU

I took some Interest in this matter because Flameless Incineration's plant was estabUshhed at Cannon HiU. It was established on land owned by the MetropoUtan Abattoir Board. In other words, it was established on land that was not owned by that company. The Government did not have much of an investment. The company gave no security and established Its plant on Government or semi-Government-owned land. The plant was a complete failure from the beginning. The people who owned the plant, Pat Gay and bis partners, decided to seU It. They showed the Brisbarie City Council its operation and the councU said that it was worthless. It was offered to the councU for approximately $175,000, but it refused to buy h. In other words, the Government had lent $100,000 unsecured, as far as the Auditor-General was concerned, on a plant built on land that the company did not own. The company then put the machine up for sale. Since then, the machine has been dismantled. I understand that part of It—I think it was the boiler—has been sold to Toowoomba, and the rest lies In Gay Constmctions' paddock or yard at the Gabba. I do not thmk that Is the way for a Govemment to do business. I am a strong supporter of the idea of providing assistance tp get, industries estabUshed. I looked through the reports of the Department of Commercial and Industrial Development from 1978 to 1980 and not once did I see a reference to Flameless Incineration Pty Ltd and the $100,(X)0. In fact, the only chance I have of suggesting what might be a mention of Flameless Incineration was in 1980 on page 16 where it sppke of financial assistance to industry, and it listed $18,000,000 for Queensland Cement & Lime Company Limited, $2.3m for AUgas Energy Ltd, $lm for Tancred Brothers Industries Ltd, $4.5m for Bridge OU Limited & Offshore OU NL. We finally firid a little par— "An advance of $100,000 from the Assistance to Industries Fund and guarantees valued at $4,826,0(X) were approved. Decentralized projects received 80.8 per cent of this assistance. One guarantee was given urider a scheme implemented to faciUtate the replacement or conversion of oil-fired industrial eQUip^ent." Never once do we find a report until the Auditor-General tells us that the Govemment has loaned $100,0(X) for a term of 15 years, for the ikst five years no Interest whatsoever, and interest at 1 per cent for the next 10 years. . No security was taken for the loan. I have been told that this CJovernment is a businessman's Govemment, I do not know of one finandal institution^ one credit union, one bank or one building sodety that would lend money on those terms. I remind the House that in the 16-month period up till August this year interest rates increased on four occasions. The ordinary person In the community has to pay bank mortgage rates that increased by 3 per cent over the same period, 'thhf foSe from 9i per cent to 12i per cent. Over the same period, the smaU-overdraft rate—that is, the rate at which the norriial businessman borrows, the rate charged on overdrafts of less than $100,000—Increased by 4 per cent from 9i to 13i per cent. The minimum overdraft rate charged to business people is 13i per cent. Furthermore, all the other guarantees that are necessary as part of a normal financial operation apply to every other businessman except the one who operated Flameless Indneration Pty Ltd. He got $100,000 at no interest whatever for the first five years and at only 1 per cent for the next 10 years. Many young people lij the community would like to think that the Government would give them the same sort of consideration. Mr Yewdale: Do yPu think he might have had the right handshake?

Mr BURNS: He most certamly had the right handshake or poUtical puU. The interest rate on a typical household loan of $30,000 over 25 years has risen by 3 per cent in the last 16 months. That has added approximately $65 a month or $16 a week to the repayments made by the ordinary worker who borrowed money to buy a home. At the same time, there has been no Increase whatever In the interest rate appUed to Mr Gay, who, for the first five years, pays nothing. He does not even have to worry about the possibility of his Interest rate increasing by 3 or 4 per cent. His rate did not increase at aU. The plant is not working. In fact, it has been dismantled. It no longer exists at Cannon HUl. In spite of that, the Govemment lent him $100,000. He could put that money in the bank and, at the bank overdraft rate of 13i per cent, earn $13,500 a year for nothing simply by misusing the funds. He could do that for the Industrial Development Act Amendment BUl 10 November 1981 3363 next five years. At the end of that period, instead of obtaming 13i per cent, he would have to give the Govemment 1 per cent a year, so that he would make only 12'/4 per cent a year profit! I have read the guide-lines laid down conceming applications for finandal assistance under the Industrial Development Act 1963-1976. The guide-Unes state clearly that an application for assistance must be made in the form of a letter which should be sub­ mitted only when all Information is available, and In this manner Investigation of the case can be dealt with expeditiously, Financial assistance under the Act is Umhed In the mdropolltan area to 66i per ceqt of the value of the existing and proposed fixed assets, which vriU be available on first mortgage as security. Assistance is usually given by guarantee to a bank or other financial institution and It is essential that when the appUcation is made a source of funds be assured m the event of a guarantee being approved. The guide-Unes go on to state that in the case of decentralised pioneer manufacturing industries, where a source of funds cannot be located, provision exists for such applications to be given spedal consideration. Anyone who looks at the 1980 records wiU find that guarantees were given to com­ panies to the extent of $4.8m and that the Government lent $100,000. I want to know what special reason for such a generous loan was given by Flameless Incineration Pty Ltd in hs application, which is required to set out description, history, management and ovmership details of the company together with the amount sought and the proposal for repayment. Sections A and B of the guide-lines for application for financial assistance set out a whole host of requirements that have to be met by appUcants. I want to know what special reason was advanced to induce that Government to lend $100,000 to a company whose only assets appear to have been a plant that it could not flog to the local authority or to anyone dse. It had to be dismantled and left as a heap of scrap. That is aU a piece of equipment is if It Is not working—just another piece of scrap metal. The ordinary dtizen in the community wants to see industrial development. Like him, we in the Labor Party want to see businesses built up. Go back to the days of Forgan Smith. At a time of high unemployment he and others In the ALP were trying to create and help industries. The Opposition also wants to see some sense pf fair play. How many other industries have received a loan of $100,000 at no interest for the first five years and 1 per cent Interest for the next 10 years? How many other Industries have been treated In the same way as Flameless Incineration? If it has received favoured treatment, why? An explanation is needed. How many other Industries have sought financial aid and been rejected? How many of the Uttle fellows who are battling have sought and been refused assistance? They come to me wanting to get onto Industrial estates. They are told that they are not a pioneering industry or do not comply with the guide-Unes. They are sent out Into the market to face the hard commercial reality of the 13^ per cent overdraft rate Instead of no Interest for five years and 1 per cent interest for 10 years. It is a scandal that the Government cannot push under the counter. This special loan has not shown up In any Govemment report. It was discovered by the Audhor-GeneraL Compare it with what happens to every Uttle feUow who Is trying to obtain a $30,000 loan for his home arid is told by the fhiance company that he can only pay a maximum of 25 per cent of his wages in repayments. Every one of those people has to earn about $300 a week to be able to borrow $30,000 over 25 years. The average wage Is about $284 a week and the mmimum wage is about $144. So that about 80 per cent of the people cannot comply with the guide-Unes laid dovra for housing loans. How can the Uttle businessman or the housebuyer believe that he isi getting a fair go when he compares his heavy Interest rates and tough guide lines with the fancy deals handed out to Flameless Incineration? This case deserves the closest' possible scmtiny. It Is a scandal. The Govemment has faUed to answer the allegations made In the Auditor-General's report and I demand some answers.

'• Mr WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (10.27 p.mj): I enter the debate because of some problems in my own area, but before dealing with them I commend not so much the Minister person­ ally as the principle of providing financial assistance or Incentives to Industry. 3364 10 November 1981 Industrial Development Act Amendment Bill

The concept has been in existence In Queensland for half a century. It has been supported by aU poUtical parties. Although the Liberals try to take the credit, it was put up by the ALP in the 1920s. It has been supported in various ways by Labor Govern­ ments. Irrespedive of that and without trying to score politically, I state that the concept of promoting Industry has been supported by Labor and National-Liberal Governments aUke. Irrespective of the type of Government In office there has been, firstly, an em{diasis on pioneering industries, industries that are new to an area and that wiU be of great advantage to an area. There has also been a similar emphasis on secondary industry. The Opposition appreciates the importance of this because of the advantage of job creation and the advantage of improvirig our State's independence in terms of manufacturing. For too long Queensland has relied on the southern States. Regrettably, there seems to be a trend back towards that reUance. I support the concept, too, because of Its importance in decentralisation. If it were not for the financial assistance, the land as^stance, the availabUity of Crown land, the direct grants in some instances and the guarantees of loans by the Govemment, many smaU areas round provincial cities would not have devdoped as quickly as they have. I appreciate what has happened in my own area; I know what has happened in Gladstone; I have seen what has happened in places such as Bundaberg. I note that we are to expand the idea to cover southern companies. Perhaps the Minister ought to explain this aspect. Judging by what I have been told, I am sure that many appUcants are Queenslanders and they are prepared to remain Queenslanders and not send their profits to the South. Although there is some value in funding groups that have some assets in this State, it is not so much the work opportunities as where the profits go that is important. I ask the Minister to look very carefuUy at this Idea. It has value in it, depending on whether or not the Minister has some controls. The Woolworths, Coles and Target groups—the big three in the retailing area—^have a right to make profits, and no-one is knocking that, but where do the profits go? The same thing will be able to happen under this Bill. If Queensland money is used to fund the setting up of southern interests here whUe we have no control over how long they will stay or what they can produce in the long term, it wUl be Queensland that wUl suffer. The Government is already digging deeply into the barrel, and from the cut-backs in Government we see that there is not much money left, yet we are now expanding the limited funds available to spread them over a greater demand area. Whilst I will go along with the scheme to see how it progresses, I ask the Minister to watch it very carefully. If money is to be given to private enterprise to develop pioneer industries, let it be given to Queensland industries. The Government should go to the central and northem regions to find the entrepreneurs who have lived there for 40 years, and put the scheme to them. It should approach the existing industries and ask those which want to expand into other areas if they want the money and the land. I do not agree with the idea of southerners coming up here and reaping the benefits from this State, as they are doing In so many other areas. I do not like the idea of anyone coming up here, being funded to rip off the profits from an iridustry, and then taking them down south. I will voice my concern and leave it at that. Mr Kruger: Don't you think the Government's attitude Is most unusual here?

Mr WRIGHT: I wUl accept that comment. I just think we need more information. I agree with the honourable member for Lytton that sometimes we are not told enough; a principle is espoused to us that we are supposed to accept. In his very brief statement to the House—I think It comprised only four or five pages—the Minister outlined four principles. He said that the alteration to the wording meant that companies which are Incorporated outside Queensland but have business assets in the State are eligible to be considered for a Government guarantee or direct advance. That is the first and foremost principle being put forward here, so it must be the most important. The Minister also referred to the extension of the scope of the legislation where It involves lenders and some of the deterrents or penalties, but the most Important point was to ensure that southerners could get access to the Treasury coffers of this State to set up other industries. Industrial Development Act Amendment Bill 10 November 1981 3365

Let us accept the principle in part, but let us come back to the point and say, "Let us give the first opportunity to Queenslanders." We keep talking about Queensland made and Queensland for Queenslanders, but we now have a Queensland Govemment saying, "You southerners come up here. We wUl back you. You can take your profits away when you have ripped us off." I am not so sure that that Is a great Idea. To come back to some of the other aspects of the Bill, I realise that the scheme of funding industries, particularly pioneer industries, has been successful. New industries have been established, jobs have been created and areas have been strengthened economically, but there have been problems in the management of the schemes. The honourable member for Rockhampton North raised the matter of a building firm that was very keen to set up in the Parkhurst Estate. I also spoke to this company, and It was just fed up with the delaying, procrastmating tactics of the department. It waited 18 months for information about what h could and could not do, and finally it gave up and went elsewhere. I spoke whh the former manager of the promotion bureau, I think he finally got frustrated because of the lack of financial support for the bureau; frustrated, too, because of the applications that were sent down to the department that did not seem to get anywhere, I do not know why that should be so. Perhaps the Minister should start doing some housekeeping. It is good to come forward whh new principles, but perhaps we ought to make sure that the present process works, because there have been a number of mstances in which applicants have been, to use the term put to me, mucked around to their detriment and to the final detriment of the area. It must be frustrating when a firm determines to estabUsh a new industry only to find that it cannot get going because of some bureaucratic hold-up. I do not know what the problem is, but time and time again these problems have arisen. I believe the Minister ought to have a good look at them. Finally, I suggest that the department Ought to adopt a new role. It should do more than give direct grants and guarantees for loans. Because of the expertise of the Minister and the officers who advise him, he should be in a position to look at appUcations that come before him and to initiate and promote new industry. He should know what the various areas need, and what perimeter-type and supplementary industries can be established in an area. I feel that the Minister should start looking for entrepreneurs who are prepared to get involved in industry. He has the opportunity to see the needs of various areas. I would like to think that, instead of making hand-outs on a silver plate to private enterprise, the Government would adopt a partnership approach in establishing pioneer industries in Queensland, particularly in the tourist field. That could also be done in the manufacturing area. I do not see It as a socialist plot to have the Government involved financially and administratively in the retaiUng and secondary industries. The Government should be involved, because the people's money is involved. If a consensus were taken among the people of Queensland, I am sure they would say, "Don't give them the money in direct grants as has sometimes happened. Don't make loans available by way of 80 per cent guarantees, or give land. Let the Government get involved because there is an advantage in gettmg a share of the profits." When the Government is mvolved, there is a sense of stabifity. When I recently traveUed overseas, I saw trailerThomes being manufactured. The manufacture of this product would provide a tremendous opportunity for industry in Queens­ land. I saw through a few of these homes, and a couple of them being made. They vary in size. Some are 50 feet long and 12 feet wide, while others are 60 feet long and 20 feet wide. Some of them were 12 squares in area. Mr Borbidge: How much would you pay for them?

Mr WRIGHT: I was just about to tell the honourable member. The cost, in American dollars, is between $15,000 and $25,000. They are beautifully put together. We could change them to make them more suhable for Queenslanders. Second-hand homes are a lot cheaper, fhis is a big business. We should be building these homes in Queensland for people in the western areas, particularly raUway workers. Recently I saw where the Works Department was paying $70,000 for houses In the West. It is not uncommon to hear of contracts being let m the western areas for 9i square homes costing $55,000. Why can we not embark 3366 10 November 1981 Industrial Development Act Amendment BUl upon a State-industry partnership to build traUer-homes for our western areas? A lot of money wiU be made from this enterprise If an entrepreneur moves in, but I would rather see tfie Government Involved because, in the long term, it wiU certamly be the maui purchaser. • ,, I put two suggestions to the Minister. Firstly, he should look Closely at his operations, he has been successful, but some people have been frustrated in trying to set up mdustries. Secondly, the Minister should look for new industries and advocate the idea of the Govern­ ment's becoming involved in them. The people of Queensland would ccmdone such an approach, and I certainly support it.

Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine—^Minister for Commerce and Industry) (10.39 p.m.), in reply: I listened with interest to what was said by the honourable member for Maryborough (Mr Hansen) and other honourable members. The member for Lytton introduced another matter into the debate. I could be terse, say that it had nothing to do with the BiH and leave it at that. However, I do not propose to do that. I need detailed information to reply to the member for Lytton. For that reason I do not propose to answer in detaU tonight the contributions that have been made. I will ask that the debate be adjourned so that I can give honourable members detailed answers, which is something that they should appreciate. The member for Rockhampton North raised certain matters in relation to the Parkhurst Industrial Estate. WhUe I have been Minister, I have had discussions that have revealed some problems that have arisen because the estate is situated on the boundary of two local authorities. It is natural that the Rockhampton City Council feels that h is pretty valuable real estate right on the edge of the city. I understand that negotiations have taken place to change the shire boundary. I can also weU understand the feelmgs of the Livingstone Shire CouncU, because, whilst the real estate is valuable to Rockhampton, that councU also considers It to be valuable. The honourable member also said that the lack of development of the Parkhurst Industrial Estate could be related to its distance from the main centre of population. That problem does not occur In other places. Both estates in the Mackay area are fully utUised and a number of people who have been assisted to estabUsh on those estates are fabricating for Comalco for hs alumina plant In Gladstone. They take the raw steel there, fabricate it and send it back. Mr Yewdale: Why didn't they go to Parkhurst? Mr SULLIVAN: I do not know. Mr Yewdale: That is what I want to know.

Mr SULLIVAN: We have encouraged people to go to those Mackay estates. If somebody had wanted to become established In Rockhampton, I am sure that the department would have helped him. However, it is up to the individual to decide where he wants to become established. With the constradion of a power-station at StanweU, I am sure that there wiU be a demand from manufaduring industries for land at Parkhurst, and the depart­ ment looks forward to assisting in that regard. The honourable member for Rockhampton (Mr Wright) Introduced some matters into the debate that I would like to consider for a short time and answer In more ddail. There­ fore, Mr Speaker, I wUl confine my reply to those comments. Mr D'Arcy: You cannot answer them, that Is why.

Mr SULLIVAN: Just sit there and be quiet. I believe that the member for Lytton Is entitled to a reply to the matters he raised. Mr D'Arcy: We asked about those In relation to the Audhor-General's report and you could not answer us then.

Mr SULLIVAN: The majority of members opposite are entitled to proper explanations; but the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, who has not been here aU day, now comes into the Chamber and makes a lot of noise. I wiU pursue the course I have indicated. Debate, on motion of Mr SuHlvan, adjoumed. River Improvement Trast Act Amendment BUl 10 November 1981 3367

RIVER IMPROVEMENT TRUST ACT AMENDMENT BILL Hon. K. B. TOMKINS (Roma—Minister for Water Resources and Aboriginal and Island Affairs), by leave, without notice: I move— "That leave be granted to bring in a BiH to amend the River Improvement Trust Act 1940-1977 in certain particulars and for rdated purposes." Motion agreed to.

First Reading BUl presented and, on motion of Mr Tomkins, read a first time.

Second Reading Hon. K. B. TOMKINS (Roma—^Minister for Water Resources and Aboriginal and Island Affairs) (10.47 p.m.): I move— "That the BiU be now read a second time." The main purpose of this amending BiH is to bring about a situation whereby owners or occupiers of land in a river improvement area can make contributions to a river Improve­ ment tmst under an arrangement whereby specific work is undertaken by the trust adjacent to its land. Additionally, several other desirable amendments are covered by the Bill. These relate to— Minor administrative matters regarding definitions and tabling of subordinate legislation; Allowing short-term investment of temporarily surplus funds; Approval and control of superannuation schemes; Improved control over accounting records and audit activities. As honourable members wlH be aware, river improvement trasts are formed at the request of local authorities to undertake work on the rivers and streams of their respective local authority areas. The work is generally to curtaU damage by- floodwaters, improve stream channels and prevent or repair bank erosion. In the main, capital works under­ taken by river Improvement trusts are flnanced on a loan/subsidy basis. Occasionally revenue funds are utUised. The basic revenue of river improvement trusts is a precept on the local authority or local authorities involved in the trast. The present legislation provides for a harbour board and certain statutory authorities to be able to contribute tp a trust with a legally binding arrangement that the trust wUl undertake specific works of benefit to the board or authority. There is, however, no provision for legal arrangements between individual landhdders and the trast. Numerous land-owners or occupiers have Indicated that they would be prepared to contribute funds to a trust but are constrained from so doing because the trust cannot enter into a firm agreement with them. As a result, several industry organisations suggested that an amendment to the Ad should be considered. River improvement trusts generally agree that an amendment to the Act to allow such arrangements to be made Is desirable and could be beneficial to their area of operation as a whole. The BiH before the House provides amendments which wiU aUow such legally binding arrangements to be entered Into by mutual agreement between a trast and land-owner or occupier and deserves the full support of the House. Another provision in the BIU relates to Investment of moneys. From time to time a trust may have funds on hand which are not Immediately required. It is pradent that these be invested and earn interest which wUl assist in defraying the costs of the trast. The proposed proylsK>n allows Investment on a short-term basis with insthutions approved by the Government. The present legislation provides for the due audit of books and records of a river improvement trast. Whilst there have been no shortcomings In audit activities, it Is 3368 10 November 1981 Queensland Place Names BiU considered that the Auditor-General should have full powers and responsibilities simUar to those in respect of a Govemment department. A provision Is therefore included adopting the Finandal Administration and Audit Act as the mandate under which the Auditor- General wiU condud audits of river improvement trasts. In December 1979 a dedsion was taken by the Govemment at Cabinet level that superannuation schemes conducted by statutory authorities, boards, etc. should come under the scrutiny of a Govemment committee. River Improvement trasts seldom employ fuU- time staff and no superannuation schemes are presently maintained by them. However, they are entities to which the decision appUes. Opportunity Is therefore taken to introduce appropriate legislation to apply should any of these schemes be introduced at a future date. Certain other minor administrative changes relating to deflnitlons and tabUng of subordinate legislation are also incorporated in the BiU. The Introduction of this legislation wiU bring about a great deal of impetus in the valuable work being undertaken by river Improvement trasts. I commend the Bill to the House. Bill, on motion of Mr Wilson, adjourned.

QUEENSLAND PLACE NAMES BILL Hon. W. D, HEWITT (Greenslopes—Minister for Environment, Valuation and Admin­ istrative Services), by leave, without notice: I move— "That leave be granted to bring In a Bill to make better provisions for the naming of places in CJueensland; to repeal the Queensland Place Names Act of 1958; and for other purposes." Motion agreed to.

First Reading BUl presented and, on motion of Mr Hewitt, read a first time.

Second Reading Hon. W. D. HEWITT (Greenslopes—Minister for Environment, Valuation and Admin­ istrative Services) (10.52 p.m.): I move— "That the BiU be now read a second time." The Queensland Place Names BiU seeks to update and streamline the procedure for the assignment or alteration of official place names in the State of Queensland. The prindpal objectives of the Bill are to provide for a sllghtiy enlarged Queensland Place Names Board, the replacement of the formal Place Names Committee stracture by a system of ad hoc comnuttees and to shorten the time necessary to implement the process of place-nammg whhout in any way changing the public right of objection contained In previous legislation. Legislation for the creation of a Queensland Place Names Board and for a Place Names Committee was passed In this House In 1958. The legislation was firmly based on non­ statutory pradice which had developed relating to place-naming since Queensland became a separate administrative entity In 1859. Briefly, this practice relied upMi the Surveyor- General acting as the authority and arbiter on most matters concerning place-nammg, with his Minister, of course, having final say in any contentious matter. From the govemprship of Sir Matthew Nathan (1920-1925), the Surveyor-General was sometimes assisted by an unofficial voluntary commhtee whose services were by no means continuous, but from whose hard work and Initiative In the 1940s and 1950s arose the form and principle of the 1958 Act. Honourable members would probably be surprised if they were aware of the detailed work involved in the selection, research, assignment and recording of place names. Much research, the resuhs of which will be of considerable Interest to private citizens and to organisations, still needs to be done on Queensland toponymy (place-naming). Voluntary Queensland Place Names BiU 10 November 1981 3369 and departmental work has already produced a considerable bank of Information on the origins (sometimes contested), meanings and first usage of place names In Queensland. This bank of mformation allows the staff of the Place Names Board to advise the board, the Surveyor-General and myself on the appropriateness of new names suggested for use in Queensland. Indeed, h is worth mentioning that most new names assigned in Queensland originate with private citizens and non-Government bodies and not with Government agencies. When a new name Is proposed, the Place Names Board gives It careful consideration and if it is provisionally approved, the process of the existing Act is followed, which allows for a clear month for any written objections to be received. The board is obliged to report to the Mmister on aU objedions received and, if necessary, a final decision is made by the Minister, who may accept or reject the advice of the board. When, as often happens, a local authority is requesting the official recognition of place names for Its constituent locaUties, not wily does the board have to consider the vaUdity of area names, but also the boundaries of those named areas. Those boundaries are usually set after the local authority, and, If necessary, the board, has consulted Australia Post, the Australian Bureau of Statistics and any other interested body. The Queensland Place Names Board endeavours to follow as closely as possible, but with sensible variations appropriate to local conditions, international principles of geographic place-naming. AH this work is aimed at a clear and reasonable objective—^the accurate placement and identification of a feature not only on the wide range of maps made both by the State and by other mapping bodies, but in the understanding and usage of people who either live at or near a place or who need to know where it is. The necessity for accurate and agreed place-naming in cases of emergency where rescue, fire-fighting, flood relief or medical services need to be directed speedily and effectively to a given point need not, I am sure, require explanation to honourable members. The BiU repeals in Its entirety the original 1958 legislation. So many aspects of this legislation were affected by proposals contained in the BUl, that it was thought appropriate to draft an entirely new measure for the consideration of the House. Within the definitions, members may note that the term "place" applies to features other than streets or roads within a local authority area, it being considered that street-naming is more an appropriate duty of a local authority. The Bill proposes the replacement of the existing board and formal committee structure (the committee bemg the subservient body) by an enlarged board and a system of ad hoc committees set up by the board. The current legislation prescribes a certain number of Govemment and non-Government bodies from which committee members may be appointed. From this committee, four members are then chosen to act as the board (the executive body), two chosen by the Minister and two by the committee Itself. The Surveyor-General is ex-officio a member of committee and board and is chairman of both. This method of selection is limited by the naming of specific bodies in the Act. For example, representation is provided for the University of Queensland, but not for Griffith Univershy or James Cook University of North Queensland. None of the colleges of advanced education is listed. The Royal Geographical and Royal Historical Societies are mentioned, but not the recently formed Brisbane History Group. Similarly, the RaUway and Main Roads Departments have representation, but the State Electoral Office (an agency with particular responsibUities in location and identification of places) does not. Therefore the BUl provides for an enlarged board of six members, chosen by the Minister. The Surveyor-General wUl be chairman and seventh member. The formal committee, as provided for in the existing legislation, meets only three or four times a year and the work involved in holding these meetings and compiling formal board reports for these meetings represents an additional load on the limited permanent staff of the board. Accordingly, the BIH seeks to provide (as the original 1958 legislation did) for the creation and abolition of less formal advisory ad hoc committees appointed to address particular problems or matters of special Interest. This procedure has already been used under the Act and has been shown to work well. As with membership of the board, full advaritage can be taken of the voluntary services of any interested and capable person in the community who has something to contribute in a particular matter associated with place-naming. Whilst there wiU usually be a board member chairing an ad hoc advisory commhtee, members do not have to be board members to serve on a committee. 13766-111 3370 10 November 1981 Brisbane and Area Water Board Act Amendment BiU (No. 2)

The powers and functions of the Queensland Place Names Board are set out in the BUl and need Ihtle amplification, I direct the attention of the House to that section of the BUl which seeks to speed up the process of assignment of place names. In many cases," but by no means in all, there are no objections at all to names proposed by the board. At present, under existing legislation, three months must elapse, from the date pf the origmal Gazette notice of intention tp assign the name, before that name can be gazetted firi^Uyj This long delay can cause annoyance and inconvenience and even unnecessary expense to, interested parties. Therefore, witbput in any way shortening the alrea,dy established pradice of allowing one clear month for written objections, the Bill seeks to reduce from three to two months that period from first to final gazettal in cases where no or few objedions are received. However, it should be noted that under the proposed legislation, the board remains urider the clearest obligation to report on all objections received and to seek the approval of the Minister as to final action in the matten Provision has been included in the BiU that the approval of the Governor in CouncU Is required to any proposed naming of a place or alteration of a name. The relevant sections of the BiH cover quite adequately the mechanics of the gazettal, objection and decision process and I commend them to honourable members' attention. The appearance on any published map of unauthorised or misleading place names is a matter of concem to the Government and therefore provision is made for procedure at law against an offender. Honourable members may care to reflect that the appearance of such misleading or inaccurate place name Information on any map could; in an extreme case, lead tp an unnecessary delay in an ambulance reaching a casualty, a fire engine reaching a house fire or even to an unnecessary and avoidable fatality. Every possible care is taken within the Department of Mapping and Surveying and In the Govemment at large to ensure mapping accuracy, and this BUl's provision for penalty, although at first glance perhaps appearing severe, should be seen in the light of the Government's expectation that all bodies producing maps will observe the same high standards the Government imposes upon itself. This BUl brings Queensland's place names legislation up to date, to make the place- naming process more cost-effective for both Govemment and non-Government bodies and to preserve the right of citizens or interested bodies to object in writing to any Government place-naming proposal with which they may disagree. These objections will continue to be seriously and carefuHy considered by the Queenslarid Place Names Board, with the Minister responsibUe retaining the right to confirm, modify or reverse the board's decisiori prior to seekipg the approval of the Governor in Cpimcil. This' measure may be seen as a distinctive but vital aspect Pf allowing all mappipg authorities, but principally, of course, the Departriient of Mapping and Sulyeying, to maintain the highest possible staridard of accurancy and community agreement on where a place is and what its correct name is. I commend the BiU to the House. Debate, on motion of Mr Mackenroth, adjourned.

BRISBANE AND AREA WATER BOARD ACT AMENDMENT BILL (No 2) Hon. K. B. TOMKINS (Roma—Minister for Water Resources and Aboriginal and Island Affairs), by leave, without notice: I move— "That leave be granted to bring m a BiU to amend the Brisbane and Area Water Board Act 1979-1981 in a certain particular." Motion agreed to.

First Reading BUl presented and, on motion of Mr Tomkins, read a first time.

Second Reading Hon. K. B. TOMKINS (Roma—Minister for Water Resources and Aboriginal and Island Affairs) (11.3 p.m.): I moye^— "That the BiH be now read a second time." Brisbane and Area Water Board Ad Amendment Bill (No. 2) 10 November 1981 3371

The purpose of this BiH is to remove any doubt as to whether compensation should be payable by the Brisbane and Area Water Board to a local authority in respect of any headworks for which the board may assume control in hs role as the authority respon­ sible for the planning, developmerit, operation and administration of the bulk water supply to the city of Brisbane and surrounding shires in the Moreton Region. The BiU also sets out, justffiably, that no compensation shall be payable to the board on hs assuming any liability or obligation from a local authority. The necessity for this Bill arose from a decision taken on 30 January 1981 when the Brisbane and Area Water Board resolved to assume control of Somerset and North Pine Dams and gave notice in writing to the Brisbane City Council of hs intention to assume control of these works in accordance with section 29 of the Act. Followmg such notice, negotiations were entered into between the board and the Brisbane Chy Coundl in respect of the property to be acquired and the liabiUties and obligations to be assumed by the board and assodated matters. In recent weeks the Brisbane City CouncU indkated that it saw as a condition precedent to its endorsement of the board's assuming control of Somerset and North Pine Dams that the board should accept that compensation for such works was payable to the councU. For its part the Brisbane and Area Water Board has resolved that h did not agree that compensation is or should be payable. The Brisbane City Coundl has recently initiated action in the Supreme Court seeking an interpretation whether compensation is payable, and if so hpw It should be determined. At this point I would draw to the attention of honourable members remarks made by the Honourable the Minister for Local Government and Main Roads when he introduced the Brisbane and Area Water Board Bill into this Chamber ori 2 May 1979. He stated— "The question of compensation does not arise, as both assets and nabilities will be taken oyer, and the water consumers, inside and outside Brisbane, .will continue to receive the benefits from the assets and be responsible for the UabiUties, as they are now. The dams and other assets really belong to the consumers of water and not to the Brisbane City Council. , The creation of the Water Board wiU merely change the body that is holding the dams and other assets in trust for the consumers. The ownership of the assets does not iri fad change and the ownership of the assets arid the responsibUity for the debts stiU remains with the citizens of Brisbane and the surrounding areas who consume the water. If compensation were paid to the Brisbane City Council for the loss of the dams, this extra debt would have to be paid.for by the consumers, and this would necessitate a further increase in water rates and charges." .

Although the Government's intdition as expressed by my coUeague was quite clear, the Act itself was not so clear and the BiH now introduced seeks to clarify the position for aU time.

Ul regard to the UabiUties being assumed by the Brisbane and Area Water Board the position is as follows: the Somerset and North Pine Dams were completed in 1954 and 1975 at a final cost of some $6.5m and $20.5m respectively. The Brisbane City Council's required caphal contribution towards the cost of construction of each of the dams was approximately $3.6m and $16.3m respectively. To the preSerit, actual redemption payments by the council on behalf of the users of water have amounted to only $2.7m and $1.9m respectively. It IS therefore quite clear that the Brisbane and Area Water Board will be assuming liability for the greater part of the debt iricurred by the Brisbane City Council in respect of the two dams.

The Government's intention in introducing the original Act was that compensation for headworks for which the board assumed control did not apply. The Bill now before the House wUl clear up the uncertainty in the Act.

I commend the BUl to the House.

Debate, on motion of Mr Wilson, adjourned. 3372 10 November 1981 Commonwealth Games Holiday BiU

COMMONWEALTH GAMES HOLIDAY BILL

Second Reading—Resumption of Debate

Debate resumed from 22 October (see p. 2995) on Sir WiUiam Knox's motion— "That the Bill be now read a second time." Mr YEWDALE (Rockhampton North) (11.8 p.m.): This Bill provides for a public holiday for the opening of the Commonwealth Games. As the Minister said when introducing the Bill, the Games are most certainly a significant national and international event. I believe It is pertinent to point out that all has not been weU with the pre-Games organisation. Several resignations have occurred and the management of certain funds has received publicity and left doubt in people's minds about certain aspects of the organisation of the Games. The Minister mentioned that the opening day would present some difficulties, whh an estimated 70 (XX) spectators, plus competitors and officials, concentrated at the one venue to which few normal public transport services operate. I suggest that with the spectators, competitors and officials the crowd will amount to something like 100 000 people. The Minister went on to say that the opening ceremony wiU coincide with peak-hour work trips and late-night shoppers' trips to the nearby centres. Again, that wiU create a traffic problem in that area. It would seem to me that there wlU be a lot of difficuUies with transport. Many people who do not know the area wiU travel there in their private vehicles. It would seem that the intention is for those people to park their vehicles in the parking areas adjacent to the site. One wonders whether it is wise to allow that number of drivers to park their vehicles in those areas. When the adivities are completed, that will cause serious problems for people wanting to get away from the Games site. I wonder whether it would be better to provide parking areas away from the Games site and a bus service to carry people to the site. That would allow the parking areas adjacent to the site to be used by competitors, officials and others who wUl have a major part to play In the presentation of the Games. I do not have a simple answer, but in discussing this matter with a couple of my colleagues It was suggested that a shuttle service might help to overcome the traffic problem. With the congestion of cars in that area, it is pos^ble that tempers could become frayed and people could become involved In physical encounters. I am not being an alarmist; I am just predicting what might happen. Speaking on behalf of my colleagues, I certainly welcome the fact that the Govemment dropped the proposal to have the Commonwealth Games holiday instead of the Boxing Day holiday. It seems that common sense has prevaUed. The Government has seen fit to retain the normal Boxing Day holiday. I am sure that the proposal to have the Commonwealth Games holiday instead of the Boxing Day hoUday would not have been very gracefully received. It is interesting to note that the edhorial In today's "Telegraph" refers to people in high offices in Ipswich and RedcUffe who are complaining about the lack of Involvement of their centres in the Commonwealth Games. I reiterate that the Commonwealth Games Foundation has certainly had its problems. It would seem at this point that matters have settled down. I am sure that not only the members of this Chamber but also the people of Queensland are looking forward to the smooth running of the Games and to Queensland coming out of them weU. I am sure that the Minister is monitoring the situation. Let us hope that there are no more dramatic resignations. I suggest to the Minister that he take a further look at the problem of parking. A huge number of people will congregate in that area, and I am wondering whether a shuttle service could be used to overcome the problem.

Mr WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (11.14 p.m.): The prmciple of a public holiday for the Commonwealth Games must be supported. The reasons briefly outlmed by the Commonwealth Games HoHday BiU 10 November 1981 3373

Minister Indicated that it Is necessary to overcome public transport difficulties by designating a certain day as a public holiday. However, I wonder whether there Is an altemative that could prove to be of advantage to Queenslanders generaUy. In his second-reading speech, the Minister said that the public holiday would be throughout the State on Thursday, 30 September. People in country areas wUl not gd very much advantage from that Thursday holiday; but they would certainly get a tremendous advantage from a public holiday on a Friday, say, for the Far North, and on a Monday for the central region. That would enable all of those people to have a three-day week-end. There is no way that every Queenslander will be able to attend the opening ceremony, and I do not think that aU Queenslanders really want to go. The maximum number of spectators is about 70000 and there are about a million Brisbaneites. Although I support the principle of having a public holiday, I see advantages in varying the day over various parts of the State so that different regions have a different day. That Is done for Show holidays even In a small area such as Rockhampton. Surrounding districts have Friday as a holiday whUe the city has Thursday. That maximises attendances, which Is surely a criterion that must be very carefully considered by the administrators and organisers. The Govemment does not want to Incur losses. If the public hoUday is spread over three or four different days between 30 September and 9 October, it wiU give a far greater chance of maximising attendances, especially If the people of Central Queensland could have their holiday on a Monday, which would give them one or two days to travel to attend the Games. The same would be true of those in the Far North. Although I support the concept in principle, I believe that this ought not to be the end-all of the proposal that is before the Assembly. There is a need for a variation. I realise we have legislation before us, but the Minister could give greater thought to this. It may well be that he has considered it. His reasons for putting forward a single holiday for the State are acceptable in principle, but I am not sure that that Is practicable. I ask him to consider the points I have put forward. Not everybody would be able to attend the opening; not everybody would want to. But certainly the majority of Queenslanders would like to attend the Commonwealth Games at one time during this period, so let us maximise their opportunities.

Hon. Sir WILLIAM KNOX (Nundah—Minister for Employment and Labour Relations) (11,18 p,m.), in reply: The details of the transport arrangements for the Commonwealth Games are not known to me, although I am aware of the general arrangements. I understand that not all parking wUl be in areas contiguous to the Games but wUl also be in specffic areas from which people wUl be able to catch buses or articulated vehicles to the Games. So not aU parking wiU be in close proximity to the venue of the opening ceremony. Of course, the holiday is not simply for the benefit of people wanting to go to the opening ceremony. There will also be a considerable number of people llnmg the route to the Games to welcome the visitors who wiU be participating in the opening ceremony. That wUl be a gala occasion for tens of thousands of people who wlU come from the regions dose to Brisbane, not merely from Brisbane Itself. The suggestion of the honourable member for Rockhampton that the holiday be varied throughout the State has been considered together with a number of other suggestions. Unfortunately, it Is difficult to work out the regions. AH other alternatives give rise to problems of which region should have a holiday on a particular day. One possibility was that local authority distrids should apply for the holiday; but, of course, when one looks at a map of Queensland one finds that local authority districts cover huge areas. Some have the majority of their population at one end, and problems of that type arise. It is even difficult now to tidy up Show holidays In regions because of loyalties and other interests. Mr Wright: You could do It in educational regions.

Sh WILLIAM KNOX: All sorts of political divisions could be made in order to cope; but, even so, there would be some who would advocate one day in preference to another. 3374 10 November 1981 Adjournment

Having one single day on the date of the opening is significant, because there wiU be complete TV coverage of the opening'ceremony and also the proceedings before and after that event. People throughout the State, and, indeed, in many other parts of Australia, will want to watch the opening on television and wiU have the opportunity of doing so in their own homes in the various towns and cities, without ainy problem.s associated whh thdr obligations to work on that day, with the exception, of course, of those who have to provide tesential services. So it wUl be a spectacle not only for those whO attend thej Games but also for those who want to watch the opehirig ori television. , The other reason for having a specific day is that bppkings for tickets for the various events are noW open and it is desirable to allbW people to know precisely which day is tP be a holiday; If they wish to travel to Brisbarie for the opening ceremony or wish to book tickets for events at about that time, they wUl now be able to make their plans. Motion (Sir WUUam Knox) agreed to.

Committee The Chairman of Committees (Mr Miller, Mhaea) in the chair Qauses 1 to 3, as read, agreed to. Bill reported; without amendment.

Third Reading , BiH, on motion of Sir William Kflox, by leave, read a third time.

ADJOURNMENT Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett—Leader'of the House) (11.23 p.m.): Honourable members are reminded that tomoirow, Wednesday, 11 November, is Remembrance''^Day. The bells wUl be rung two minutes earlier than usual to enable Remembrance Day to be observed. > I move— "That, the House do now adjourn."

, Preferential and Ward System of Voting for Local Authority Elections Mr WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (11.24 p.m.): During-the last month or so th^ people of Rockhampton have witnessed the results of one of the most unsavory and sordid political exercises that has ever been performed on and in the , I naturally refer to the ^Just, the ^unwarranted and the unwanted imposition pf a preferential and ward systeni of voting for local authority elections. , We have seen weeks and weeks of cover-ups. Of half-truths and of blatant lies. The main stars in this performance are, unfortunately, a member'of this House, the Honourable Russ Hinze, Minister for Local Government, Main Roads and Police, and a .Ipcal ddeated National Party candidate in the person pf Col Carige. It has traly been a "miscarriage" of justice, and I believe that the National Party wiU regret the day that it Involved itself in the rorting of boundaries in the city of Rockhampton. It has all centred around a number of people who have been tagged as the faceless, unnamed men of Rockhampton who met secretly and who now are afraid to own up and say that they were in fact a party to this rort. They have gerrymandered the local government boundaries of the city. It is interesting to find out why. Firstly, it is a desperate attempt to stop the ALP from capturing the councU, which was a fait accorilpli. The boundaries will be difficult, but the National Party has blundered. I do not think it expected the reaction it received. Mr Blake: As In Brisbane. ..ij Adjournment 10 November 1981 3375

Mr WRIGHT: The same thing happened in Brisbane. Secondly, the reason is to enable certain National Party land developers and real estate interests to get on that councU. It is not a coincidence that Carige is involved in land development, and a few of his cronies who are up to the neck in land development are behind this whole rort. There has been a reaction by local reputable land, developers and real estate agents. The third reason is to ensure that certairi people who are refused berths or gueriisies by the Civic Independents can now get into couhcU. The final reason was to totally outmanoeuvre the Liberal Party. Already the Liberals are starting to think twice because they realise that they are going to be wiped out. They have the remotest chance of winning one of the 10 wards. Their vote in my own area In 1966 was 50 per cent; today it is 10 per cent. That is an indication of what has happened. It is a sordid incident. The people bf Rockhampton are incensed, and they have the right to feel that Way. "The Morning Bulletin" has also rightly asked the question, "Who drew the boundaries?" I notice National Party members laughing on the opposite side of the Chamber. I am surprised that they would condone such a sordid exercise. 1 would like to know who drew the boundaries. The Liberals have obviously been conned; they are all ducking for cover. Everybody who was prepared to crow about his involvement is now saying he did not actually draw the lines. Mr Hinze is tight-lipped. He should be totally ashamed of himself. I chaUenge him to face the people of Rockhampton. I wUl give him greater justice than he has given the people of Rockhampton. I will arrange a public meeting at which he can give the reasons why he has done this. That would be fa;; more than he has given the people of Rockhampton. I will guarantee him a chance to put his,viewpoint forward, something that he has not given the people of Rockhampton. Mr Hinze refused to. release the submissions, and one wonders why. Obviously political shenanigans are the basis of what has happened. It is riddled with political shenanigans. There has been no right of involvement for the people or councillors of the city of Rockhampton. It has been a fait accompli. In fact, it has been bulldozed through by Ministers in this Government, including Mr Hinze. I am surprised that Dr Edwards was a party to It. It seems that aU Liberal and National Ministers condoned this, because it was put through Executive Council on 24 September this year.

Mr Blake: It must be without shame. Mr WRIGHT: It must be without shame. Mr Hinze has dropped very far in my estimation; Although I have had some arguments with him, I have at least regarded him as a man of some repute. That is not so any more, because out of his ministerial window he threw aU semblance of honesty when he became party to this. We have a voting scheme that was set up by local stooges and imposed on people in a provincial city by Brisbane bosses. The scheme ought not be allowed; it is unjust. It is beginning a new era of dishonesty in politics. In this instance, local government polhics are involved. The National Party wiU regret the day that it got involved. It wUl find that the people of Rockhampton wiU reject it. It will find that, like Mr Carige and the others Who are ducking for cover and now being very apologetic, the people wUl not forgd the injustices that have been done to them. (Time expired.)

Central Queensland Tourist Potential Mr LESTER (Peak Downs) (11.29 p.m.): I rise to speak of the tourism potential of the Central Highlands of Queensland. It is clear that to make the Central Highlands the most progressive country area in Queensland, we must foster the development of its coal-mining, grazing and grain-growing industries to a greater extent than at present. A tourist wishing to vish the Central Highlands could leave Brisbane by motor vehicle or, if he comes from New South Wales, Victoria or South Australia, drive up through Goondiwindi. His first point of interest would be the Carnarvon Ranges. In those ranges lies the Carnarvon Gorge, which is a tourist attraction that is unparalleled in Australia. Next, he wotild proceed north to the Rainworth Fort near . It was an early fort and one at which some white people were murdered by Aboriginies. It has quhe a colourful history. It has been rebuilt, I think by the McLoughlin famUy. 3376 10 November 1981 Adjoumment

The tourist's next point of interest would be the Fairbairn Dam, the capadty of which is three times that of Sydney Harbour. A licence will soon be issued for a caravan park at the dam and in the not too distant future a licence wlU be granted for the constraction of a motel at the site. The gemfields of Central Queensland are, of course, the she of gem-mining. They are a tremendous attraction to people from southern areas and other countries. Each year a wheelbarrow race from Anakie to Rubyvale Is held. Mrs Nelson: Do they go backwards?

Mr LESTER: I take the honourable member's interjection. If she agre« to be the star of the-show next year, I wlU push the wheelbarrow backwards. I am sure that we would do very weU. I wlH walk backwards and the honourable member can sit In the wheelbarrow backwards. Grazing Is conducted In the Central Highlands, but a visitor who looks at the land might wonder why anyone would go there In the first place. Furthermore, he might ask himself how anyone gets there. Of course, Intemational tourists from America come to the Central Highlands via Townsvilie and other places. Mr Davis Interjected.

Mr LESTER: It would seem that the honourable member for Brisbane Central is not interested In the Central Highlands, which attracts visitors from the Whitsunday area, the Mackay region, Rockhamptmi and Yeppoon. I am sure that the Iwasaki project will soon gd off the ground. Mr Hartwig: And the power-station.

Mr LESTER: And the power-station—^not that that has a lot to do with tourism. Nevertheless, the Yeppoon area is a good area. It complements the Central Highlands as a tourist area. We in the Central Highlands are not selfish. We do not want to capture aU the tourist trade from Yeppoon, Mackay and TownsvUle; we want our fair share. We certainly have something to offer. I invite all people to visit the Central Highlands. (Time expired.)

Inland Roads Mr INNES (Sherwood) (11.34 p.m.): It gives me great pleasure to foUow my coUeague the member for Peak Downs. A recent Qantas survey of European travellers showed that they want to see three things In Australia: the Great Barrier Reef, Ayers Rock and Vince Lester! My speech relates to travel and partly to travel in the honourable member's eledorate. Whhin the past two months I had the privilege of traveUing on roads in the Outback. I drove over roads in the Northern Terrhory and I had the dubious privUege of driving over roads in Queensland. Among the roads on which I travelled during the last two months were the roads from Rockhampton to Dingo and Bluff, the development road to Nebo and the Marlborough section of the Brace Highway. About 20 years ago, when I left the Northem Territory, "The Bitumen" was the only significant permanent road in the Northern Territory and h was stiU in Second Worid War condition. It was a rough track that was cut during the wet months of the year and at any other time that h rained to any extent. Today the situation has changed vastly. The road network available to travellers and outback residents of the Northern Territory is magnificent. I traveUed on the 200 mUe road to Jabiru in the uranium province. It did not exist some 10 years ago. It is a uniform and permanent surface carrying the heaviest vehicles under the worst weather conditions in Australia. The same conditions apply to a totally updated, restored and permanent Stuart Adjournment 10 November 1981 3377

Highway from Darwin to Alice Springs, a thousand miles of improved road. I understand that similar bitumen roads exist where I travelled m four-wheel-drive vehicles in areas that were out for four or five months a year going west to the Western AustraUan border. I compared those roads with the roads I travelled on through the Camarvon Ranges, which require a four-wheel-drive vehicle in any significant rain, the appalling bitumen between Dingo and Nebo and the indifferent bitumen on the flood-prone Bruce Highway in Central (Jueensland. I leave out North Queensland because I have not travelled over those roads in the last six months. The comparison between "Outback Australia"—that Is, the Northern Territory—and "The Sunshine State" makes our wonderful State a non-starter. The question one asks is why that is so. Of course, there is the presence of Commonwealth funds; but it is not simply a matter of Commonwealth funds. The uniformity of road constraction that is achieved l^ central planning puts the Northern Territory miles ahead in terms of service to its residents and to travellers. Recently the Commonwealth Government proposed a new basis of funding to Queensland involving a requirement to let significant contracts to private enterprise. It is a fad in this State that the vast majority of Main Roads work goes to local authorities for constraction by day labour. The Govemment has to set priorities. Do honourable members want an employment scheme, or do they want excellent arterial roads connecting the main provincial centres of this State? If the latter is true—and I believe It is trae—^the priority must be the estabUshment of an excellent arterial network of roads to serve main provincial centres. The reality is that the Commonwealth policy is correct because it gets a quarter more miles for the dollar, and also uniform mUes. In the Northern Territory, the edges of shire boundaries cannot be detected because the bitumen halves In width or changes from good construction to indifferent construction. Uniformity is achieved by centralised and uniform execution of a main plan. What I am saying is that I approve of what the Commonwealth has done. The con­ stmction of main roads is not an employment scheme; it is a scheme to provide this State whh 20th century roads to permit travel and business to be conducted adequately and appropriately now. Maintenance of main roads should be the only priority of local government. (Time expired.)

Embargoed Statements Published by Bundaberg "News-Mail" Mr DAVIS (Brisbane Central) (11.39 p.m.): During the Budget debate I accused the honourable member for Isis (Mr Powell) of leaking Budget information to the Press. The honourable member has not denied that accusation in this Chamber. At that time I read from the "News-Mail". However, I did resent the Dorothy Dix type question used by the honourable member for Isis to more or less defame me last Thursday week before the Parliament went into recess. The member for Isis asked the Deputy Premier and Treasurer had he seen an article in the Bundaberg "Nevre-MaU" concerning a spokesman who said that the Treasurer did not issue a statement concerning the Budget. Dr Edwards rep>lied— "The statement in the Bundaberg 'News-Mail' on 23 October has been drawn to my attention. Some of the statements in that article surprised me. I have also seen previous articles attributed to the honourable member for Isis. In common—" and this is the point— "with every other Government member, he had every right to be briefed on the general concept and lines of the Budget." He went on to say that every Government member was briefed on the document on the •iay of the Budget. This is a most glaring example of what is wrong with what we call the Westminster system, when every Government member is briefed on the day of the Budget. 3378 10 November 1981 Adjournment

Mr Hevritt: About half an hour before it comes into the House.

Mr DAVIS: I thank the Mmister. I was wahing for someone to give us a little bh of an insight. Mr Hewht: In general terms.

Mr DAVIS: If Government members got the document only half an hour before—^ Mr Simpson: We didn't get the document.

Mr DAVIS: Government members received a precis of what was in the Treasurer's speech half an hour before it was delivered. The Minister for Environment, Valuation and Administrative Services just said that Government members .got the document—— Mr Hewitt: I said "a briefing".

Mr DAVIS: That wiU do, a briefing. , The honourable member for Isis has now condemned himself because two days before the Budget document was presented he suppUed Budget information to the Bundaberg "News-MaU". The Deputy Premier and Treasurer implied that the Bundaberg "News-Mail" supplied me with the information. The member for Isis knew that I was in the area a week after the Budget was Introduced in this House. AU I did was read the editorial in the Bundaberg "News-MaU" and brought h to the attention Of the House. I make h quite clear that the honourable member for Isis definitely leaked the document. Following Dr Edwards's reply to the Dorothy Dix question asked by the honourable member for Isis the Bundaberg "News-Mail" featured a full-page article headed, "Paper accused of breach of trust". I think it is worth reading Into "Hansard". The article refers to a Dorothy Dix type question from Mr Powell and states— ". . . . Dr Edwards indicated from his detailed response, including dates of papers, that he was prepared for the question and that the manner of his reply was not conceived hastily. Dr Edwards should withdraw his slur on the Integrity of the News-MaU in the forum in which it was made. If he does not accept that view, he would oblige the paper with an opportunity to test the veracity of this rebuttal by passing the matter to the Australian Press CouncU. We, on the News-MaU, stand by what we have said. Now it is Dr Edwards' tum." So the ball Is now in Dr Edwards's court. I repeat the accusation I made three or four weeks ago that the honourable member for Isis leaked documents given to him by the Treasurer, the Minister for Education or whomever, and that this was done contrary to the Westminster system. I believe that the honourable member for Isis should be called before the bar of this Parliament Dr Lockwood: He can't come to the bar.

Mr DAVIS: The honourable member professes to beUeve In the so-called Westminster system, but he received the Information before we did. If I knew what was in the Budget papers, couldn't I make a good killing? (Time expired.)

Glue-sniffing; Electoral Enrolments Mr BORBIDGE (Surfers Paradise) (11.44 p.m.); This evenmg I wish to acquaint honourable members with an incident that occurred in my area last week. I am very pleased that the Minister for Welfare Services is in the House tonight, because he is a very dedicated and capable Minister who is taking a great interest in the problem of glue- sniffing. On several occasions he has mentipned the trauma associated with the problem and referred to the increased Incidence of glue-sniffing. Adjournment 10 November 1981 3379

Last week the principal of one of the primary schools in my electorate brought to me a smaU plastic container of scented glue, which had been confiscated from children at his school. The particular product is marketed under the name Feuki O'Glue. It is in a pink container and is strawberry scented. It depicts children and animals on the front. I have raised this matter with the Minister and also with the Minister for Heahh. As a result, the Health Department wUl be ranning some tests on the toxicity or otherwise of that product. , I am concerned about the principle involved. Products that are available in retaU outlets throughout the State must be seen to be encouraging young children of five, six or seven years of age to become accustomed to smelling or sniffing glue. That is totally unacceptable. Over the last few days I have called on the retail outlets on the Gold Coast that may be seUing that product and asked them to withdraw it from the market-place. There is genuine concem about it amongst the teaching fraternity and the schools in my area, and I know that that concem is shared by the responsible Ministers. I repeat that, no matter what the result of any analysis of that product by the Health Department may be, the very principle involved is deplorable. I urge the distributor of it to have a very good look at the principle that it is introducing into our schools. I suggest that if the distributor is a responsible company, it will seriously consider withdrawing the product from the market-place; in fact It will go further than that and withdraw the product from the markd-place.

Mr Hansen: What about sniffing petrol?

Mr BORBIDGE: I know that many products are involved. The honourable member has expressed concern about this matter in the past. It is of great concern, and I draw it to the attention of the House. In the couple of minutes remaining to me, I wish to acquaint the House with the latest enrobnent figures for seats in Queensland. They are very interesting and tend to put a bh of a hde in the argument that this State is governed through a gerrymander. The figures recently released by the State Electoral Office reveal that 1 285 325 people were enrolled in this State's 82 electorates, and that 9 of the 10 fastest-growing electorates with the highest emolments were represented in this place by National Party members. They are the seats of Fassifern, Landsborough, Redlands, Albert, Cooroora, Caboolture, South Coast, Surfers Paradise and Somerset. At present, Woodridge is the only seat in the top 10 in terms of voter enrolment not held by the National Party. It is also interesting to note that an examination reveals that there are seven electorates in which the enrolments are presently over quota. Again, all seven are presently represented by National Party members. They are the electorates of Albert, Caboolture, Cooroora, Fassifern, Landsborough, Peak Downs and Whitsunday. Not one of the 82 electorates represented by any member in this place has an enrolment below the minimum quota allpwed in the Ad. I think that those points should be remembered when critics of this Govemment and of the Govemment parties try to claim that this Government is deriving some benefit from the eledoral system. The latest figures indicate that that is not true. (Time expired.)

Noise Problems in Urban Areas Mrs NELSON (Aspley) (11.49 p.m.): In the time of Julius Caesar such concern was expressed by residents In densely built-up urban areas that it was necessary to pass laws to prevent the passing of chariots along streets at night so that citizens in the chy of Rome could sleep. I draw to the attention of the House some of the conditions that exist in our city today. One of the serious problems that I have in my electorate, because it is a densely built-up area and an urban corridor divided on each side by Gympie Road and Webster Road, is the problem of heavy transports and motor cycles using roads in the late hours of the night and the early hours of the morning. It has become such a significant 3380 10 November 1981 Adjoumment

problem that small groups of people are meeting in my electorate to see how the matter can be overcome. I have been approached by several individuals and several small groups, and I am very sympathetic to their problems.

I am becoming increasingly bored with the comment that because we live in a city and because we have the benefits of living in a closely knit urban community with access to services such as schools and hospitals we have to tolerate the disadvantages of city life. A certain amount of noise is necessary and has to be tolerated and, if people choose to live near industrial sites, then some industrial noise must be tolerated. But I believe a couple of areas bear close examination. The use of urban corridors and main highways by heavy traffic that generates a great deal of noise late at night and in the early hours of the morning is no longer tolerable to our citizens. We ought to look very seriously at placing restrictions on the hours at which such transports can use inner-suburban roads in densely populated areas, I include in those areas electorates stretching from Bald Hills right through to the inner city.

It is not right for people who have to work during the day to spend most of their evenings attempting to sleep but not being able to sleep because of persistent, loud noise. The human brain reacts very badly to two types of noise; it reacts to a persistent, loud noise and it also reacts very badly to a consistent noise. That noise may not be so loud but its consistency has a very detrimental effect on the human brain. Of all the forms of pollution that the society must tolerate, the most devastating to the human brain is noise.

That brings me tp the subject of barking dogs. I believe it is time that the Brisbane City CouncU really took cognisance of the alarming increase in the number of wild dogs, the number of semi-domesticated dogs and the number of people who have iUegal numbers of dogs on small residential allotments. I have received a significant number of complaints from people in my electorate who are being driven mad by the barking of dogs all night and aU day. For some fascinating reason our society is riddled wUh this conscious desire to have large animals on small blocks of land, which seems to me to be rather cruel. If society persists in doing that, then I bdieve we ought to have very strict regulations about the sorts of activities that animals can indulge in which have an effect on the neighbourhood. I am not talking about the fouling of lawns and such things. I believe they can be resolved by most neighbours, sometimes in very amusing ways such as by removing the fouling from one property to another. The day is rapidly approaching when neighbours may shoot each other over the noise and mess that animals make. The serious problem of noise, which may not be loud but which is persistent, from barking dogs is one that the society must confront. The State Govemment must co-operate with local authorities in an effort to overcome the problem.

I now return to the problem of other loud and persistent noises in our community. I do not bdieve that it is good enough for people who do not live in heavily biiilt-up areas all the time, but who reside here only temporarily, to make comments such as the ones that I have heard repeatedly in this place: that we just have to put up whh it. I do not believe the human brain is geared to simply put up with it and I do not believe that Governments are elected to make such complacent comments. Australia is the most urbanised community in the world, and has been since its inception, contrary to popular myth. I believe that it is the Government's responsibility to ensure that persistent noise and loud noise is removed from our society. I believe that it is our responsibility to ensure that people who own dogs do not allow them to bark at night. If they bark at night the dogs should be removed from the locality.

(Time expired.)

Motion (Mr Wharton) agreed to.

The House adjourned at 11.55 p.m. i .'