HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL-16 March 1988 905 OFFICIAL REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 16 March 1988 The Council met at half-past Two o’clock PRESENT HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR (PRESIDENT) SIR DAVID CLIVE WILSON, K.C.M.G. THE HONOURABLE THE CHIEF SECRETARY SIR DAVID ROBERT FORD, K.B.E., L.V.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY (Acting) MR. DAVID ALAN CHALLONER NENDICK, J.P. THE HONOURABLE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL MR. MICHAEL DAVID THOMAS, C.M.G., Q.C. THE HONOURABLE LYDIA DUNN, C.B.E., J.P. DR. THE HONOURABLE HO KAM-FAI, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HU FA-KUANG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG PO-YAN, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE DONALD LIAO POON-HUAI, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR DISTRICT ADMINISTRATION THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-CHUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN CHEONG KAM-CHUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG YAN-LUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS. SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARIA TAM WAI-CHU, O.B.E., J.P. DR. THE HONOURABLE HENRIETTA IP MAN-HING, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN YING-LUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS. RITA FAN HSU LAI-TAI, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS. PAULINE NG CHOW MAY-LIN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE PETER POON WING-CHEUNG, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE YEUNG PO-KWAN, O.B.E., C.P.M., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KIM CHAM YAU-SUM, J.P. THE HONOURABLE JOHN WALTER CHAMBERS, O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE THE HONOURABLE JACKIE CHAN CHAI-KEUNG THE HONOURABLE CHENG HON-KWAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HILTON CHEONG-LEEN, C.B.E., J.P. DR. THE HONOURABLE CHIU HIN-KWONG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHUNG PUI-LAM 906 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL-16 March 1988 THE HONOURABLE THOMAS CLYDESDALE, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HO SAI-CHU, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT THE HONOURABLE RICHARD LAI SUNG-LUNG DR. THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE DESMOND LEE YU-TAI THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LIU LIT-FOR, J.P. THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E. THE HONOURABLE POON CHI-FAI PROF. THE HONOURABLE POON CHUNG-KWONG THE HONOURABLE HELMUT SOHMEN THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH THE HONOURABLE TAI CHIN-WAH THE HONOURABLE MRS. ROSANNA TAM WONG YICK-MING THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG DR. THE HONOURABLE DANIEL TSE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE GRAHAM BARNES, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR LANDS AND WORKS THE HONOURABLE RONALD GEORGE BLACKER BRIDGE, O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL LEUNG MAN-KIN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE GEOFFREY THOMAS BARNES, J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY THE HONOURABLE PETER TSAO KWANG-YUNG, C.P.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES AND INFORMATION ABSENT THE HONOURABLE PETER C. WONG, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JOHN JOSEPH SWAINE, C.B.E., Q.C., J.P. IN ATTENDANCE THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL MR. LAW KAM-SANG HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL-16 March 1988 907 Papers The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject L.N.No. Subsidiary Legislation: Antiquities and Monuments Ordinance Antiquities and Monuments (Declaration of Monument) Notice 1988 ................................................................................................................ 61/88 Places of Public Entertainment Ordinance Places of Public Entertainment (Licences)(Specification of Fees) (Regional Council Area) Notice 1988 ............................................................ 62/88 Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance Food Business (Regional Council)(Amendment) By-Laws 1988 ................................................................................................................ 63/88 Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance Frozen Confections (Regional Council)(Amendment) By-Laws 1988 ................................................................................................................ 64/88 Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance Milk (Regional Council)(Amendment) By-Laws 1988.................................. 65/88 Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance Offensive Trades (Regional Council)(Amendment) By-Laws 1988 ................................................................................................................ 66/88 Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance Places of Amusement (Regional Council)(Amendment) By-Laws 1988 ................................................................................................................ 67/88 Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance Swimming Pools (Regional Council)(Amendment) By-Laws 1988 ................................................................................................................ 68/88 Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance Undertakers of Burials (Regional Council)(Amendment) By-Laws 1988 ................................................................................................................ 69/88 Copyright The Copyright (Computer Software)(Extension to Territories) Order 1987...................................................................................................... 70/88 Sessional Paper 1987-88: No. 51—Hong Kong Baptist College Annual Report 1986-87 with statement of accounts for the year ended 30 June 1987 908 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL-16 March 1988 Address by Members on subsidiary legislation laid on 2 March 1988 Women and Young Persons (Industry)(Amendment) Regulations 1988 MR. CHAN KAM-CHUEN: Sir, I rise to support in principle the Women and Young Persons (Industry)(Amendment) Regulations 1988. On 4 March 1988, the Legislative Council in-house meeting supported them in principle and formed an ad hoc group to clarify some points with the Administration which may give rise to misunderstanding by labour organisations. This was done on 8 March 1988 under my convenership. After clarification by the Administration, the ad hoc group was satisfied with the amended regulations and a written report dated 11 March 1988 was sent to all Legislative Council in-house meeting members. My colleague, Mr. TAM Yiu-chung will elaborate on some points. Personally, my view is the same as when I joined the Labour Advisory Board in 1977, that is, the safety of female workers returning home around midnight. Their family members and the police on the beat, if requested, should accompany them in dark places, up the lifts and stairways to prevent rape. Government is also asked to make an annual review on the effects of these regulations and improve on them where necessary. In the meantime, intensive publicity will help to clear up the misunderstanding of workers. With these observations, Sir, I support these measures which hopefully may relieve our temporary acute shortage of workers in industry. MR. TAM (in Cantonese): Sir, the Women and Young Persons (Industry) (Amendment) Regulations 1988 were gazetted on 26 February 1988 and enacted immediately after its study by the Executive Council. From the surface, it can be seen that the amendments are just technical amendments. However if you look at them very carefully and analyse them, you will find that the amendments are not only technical in nature. I will now speak in detail about my opinions on the amended regulations. First of all, regulation 8(1A) stipulates that, if the total number of work hours, excluding overtime, do not exceed 96 in any consecutive two weeks, then the employers can reach an agreement with the employees so that they can change the eight-hour day and 48- hour week without asking for exemption from the Commissioner of Labour. This amendment, according to the Labour Department, is to add to the flexibility of the Ordinance so that the employers can have more flexibility with the hours of work. The Administration also says that the eight-hour day and the 48-hour week principle is maintained. The amendments will give flexibility to the law. HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL-16 March 1988 909 However, if you analyse it very carefully, you will see that the 96-hour fortnight has maintained the 48-hour-week principle but has sacrificed the spirit of the eight-hour day. As you know, the spirit of the eight-hour day is to protect the mental and physical well-being of employees so that they will not sustain unnecessary losses because of overtime work. If they work more than eight hours a day, they will get overtime pay to compensate for their mental and physical exhaustion. However, according to the present amendment, women and young persons can work up to 10 hours a day and the two hours in excess of the eight hours can be seen as normal working hours in any one day. Moreover, within these two extra hours, the employees cannot obtain overtime pay any more. They will only have normal pay. Thus, they do not have any gains in fringe benefits by extending their work day by two hours but their employers will have their marginal cost cut. Therefore, the 96-hour fortnight is actually contravening the spirit of the eight-hour day. The flexibility offers to the industrial undertakings by the Government therefore only benefits the employers. I thus have reservations about this amendment. I think that when introducing such amendments the Administration should adhere strictly to the eight-hour day spirit. Now, from the technical point of view, the amendment says that the employers and employees must reach an agreement in respect of the 96-hour fortnight before it can be worked out. I do not think this is technically possible, because in present day situation, the employers always have the upper hand. So I do not think the employees can reach an agreement on an equal footing with the employers. In short, if the employees are not on equal footing with the employers, they will have to accept the new arrangements. The Administration has not ensured in law that a fair agreement could be reached between the employees and employers. Moreover, the Women and Young Persons (Industry)(Amendment) Regulations 1988 have shown us that the Administration has only looked at the benefits of the employers and not the employees.