Round Table Talk: Peter Goddard with Hitoshi Murayama and Hirosi Ooguri Peter Goddard Professor, the School of Natural Sciences, the Institute for Advanced Study Hitoshi Murayama Kavli IPMU Director Hirosi Ooguri Kavli IPMU Principal Investigator How the Newton Institute Got Off nancially turbulent periods. So, I in Cambridge, realized that the the Ground think we have a lot to learn from country didn’t have such institutes. Ooguri: Thank you for joining us for your experience. The areas you have We realized that there was a growth this conversation today. worked on are also quite relevant in such institutes because the Institute Goddard: It’s my pleasure. for this institute. In fact, tomorrow, for Advanced Study had been playing Ooguri: You were the Deputy Director you’re going to give a colloquium a particular role worldwide for many of the Newton Institute which is about the interdisciplinary research years and that had inspired various now one of the leading institutes in between mathematics and physics̶ people to start other institutes. For mathematical science in the world that would be another subject that example, Hirzebruch’s Institute in and you have been responsible in we would like to talk about today. Bonn is one famous example, and starting that institute, including the Murayama: I’d love to hear about the the IHES (Institut des Hautes Études designing and the construction of the story of how the Newton Institute got Scientiques) near Paris is another building. off the ground̶how you actually that was inspired by the IAS. Goddard: With other people, yes. had a vision for the institute and how Ooguri: And there is RIMS (Research Ooguri: You were also the Director you tried to bring people in. Institute for Mathematical Sciences in of the Institute for Advanced Study Goddard: Well, I think that in the Kyoto). and led the expansion of programs. middle of 1980s, I and many of my Goddard: So, often people who had You guided the institute through colleagues in the UK, and particularly been at the IAS had seen there were 14 Kavli IPMU News No. 26 June 2014 things that they could emulate in their preferentially where there were of people who initiated it. Peter own countries̶they didn’t usually crossovers between disciplines or Landshoff, Martin Rees, and others. make replicas. In the United States between sub-disciplines. Then you Murayama: Oh, Martin Rees? the MSRI (Mathematical Sciences had a greater added value from Goddard: Yes, Martin Rees was Research Institute) in Berkeley and an institute because you could involved all the way through, ITP (Institute for Theoretical Physics), bring together people, who would and Peter Landshoff played an now the Kavli ITP, in Santa Barbara not normally have the time to important role along with me. We were started. I think many of us get together in universities, from did most of the donkeywork, as they found that we were spending our different disciplines. I think one of the say. Then there were very skilled sabbaticals and our vacations in reasons that institutes have grown in mathematicians, John Coates and... these institutes because they were importance̶and it was one of the Ooguri: Is that because of the British very good places to go to intersect founding principles of the institute tradition that theoretical physicists are with lots of people and to be in a in Princeton even back in the 1930s, regarded as part of the mathematics research intensive environment. But that the modern university, and I department? there really wasn’t any such institute think this is true all over the world, Goddard: It was partly that, because in the United Kingdom. We thought is now a busy place. It’s a place in the initial push for this came from that it was excellent that we should which the academics are expected the Faculty of Mathematics which go and help run a program in Santa to be entrepreneurial, not a place in included the Department of Applied Barbara or take part in the workshop which they’re expected to sit in their Mathematics and Theoretical Physics. in Oberwolfach (The Mathematisches ofces and have the detachment to Ooguri: It included many of the Forschungsinstitut Oberwolfach), or think about fundamental questions. leading theoretical physicists like what have you, but it’s important to They don’t, in general, have the time yourself and Martin Rees. have a two-way ow and to be able to interact with their colleagues in Goddard: Yes. Then we got support to bring people to the UK and, of the next department. They’re more from other Faculties as well. The course, to Cambridge. Some people likely to interact with colleagues dominant push came from inside had already started thinking about from other disciplines when they’re the Faculty of Mathematics. I was a this in London. Michael Green was in other places, when they don’t professor of theoretical physics in the involved, but they hadn’t managed to have to go to meetings̶I think Faculty of Mathematics. get off the ground. And we saw an that has been one of the reasons Ooguri: I have a question regarding opportunity in Cambridge because, for the growth of institutes like the scope of the institute. You at that particular moment, we could ours worldwide. We saw all those mentioned several mathematics see that there might be resources reasons as good reasons. The idea institutions existed before your available in the colleges rather than was that if we had a broad institute, institute. But there are different kinds. in the university, in Trinity College it would gain perhaps more support For example, places such as IAS and and Saint John’s College, and that it from a wider range of colleagues IHES have their own strength in the might be possible then to convince and, secondly, that it would have faculty. They have leading scholars in the UK research councils to match the opportunity then to operate in the area, and they are the attractions. the resources that Cambridge cross disciplinary areas: not that the On the other hand, the places like was nding for itself, to make an things that happened in the Newton MSRI have only a very lean faculty, international institute there. Then we Institute had to be cross disciplinary, basically just the director, and the Round had to decide what the appropriate but in each program, in comparing strength of their program attracts Table scope of the institute, and what the one with another, one looks at what people. You chose the MSRI mode. appropriate model of operation of is the added value of having this Goddard: Yes. the institute should be. We felt that happen in this institution. Ooguri: What has led to that kind of the scope should be very broad and Murayama: Who initiated this choice? this would help get broad support, discussion? Was it Michael Atiyah or Goddard: There was a discussion but also many of us thought that you or...? among those people who were the interesting areas were perhaps Goddard: Well, there were a number forming the institute̶and this is at 15 the end of the 1980s. [We started Ooguri: That’s a difcult decision, driving school is to have a very quality thinking in about ’88.] There were right? You have to take risks to do controlled result and if you looked a number of points if you look at that. at choosing between driving schools, the taxonomy, if you like, of these Goddard: Yes, you have to explain you’d just select the one that had the institutes, their various structural to people that that is the whole highest passed rates, whereas̶this aspects. And this is an important one. point. That it is much preferable to is the complete antithesis of this̶ Do you have a permanent faculty have an institution in which there we’re not trying to produce people or do you not have a permanent might be one or two people who who can drive cars. We’re trying to faculty? There are arguments each are not as great as you might like, change the way people think, and so way. One of the issues for an institute though I don’t think this is true of the it doesn’t matter if there are one or in particular is“, how do you gain a institute, but even if it were true, that two bad results. body of support for it?” How do you would be better, because alongside Ooguri: I recognize that“. I shouldn’t have a group of people who care that there are people like Edward make a mistake” alone is not a good about it? One way, of course, is to Witten, Pierre Deligne, and so on, way to approach this recruitment. have leading academics be faculty who are completely reconguring Goddard: You shouldn’t if you got members. I think this is true of ITP in how we understand whole areas of very few appointments. Then if you Santa Barbara, and so on. The other intellectual activity. You should be make a mistake, that’s a real problem. issue you have there if you have a more concerned about that than But I don’t think it’s possible to have permanent faculty is that you could you have nobody who falls below a an attitude that you’re trying to avoid make some wrong appointments. certain standard. The analogy I used risks and still really, really do dramatic Now, in fact, if you take something to take, it probably works in Japan things.