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Interview with Bob Michel and Tom Foley June 14, 2006 Interviewer: Ron Sarasin

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Interview with Bob Michel and Tom Foley June 14, 2006 Interviewer: Ron Sarasin Interview with Bob Michel and Tom Foley June 14, 2006 Interviewer: Ron Sarasin Ron Sarasin: Gentlemen, it is really a pleasure to have both of you here in the same place to be able to talk about your experiences in Congress: Bob Michel your experience since 1957 and Tom Foley your experience since 1965—a long time being in the Congress. Bob, since you arrived there first, let me ask you what your impression was the first day you walked on the House floor. Let me back up I guess a little bit to say that I don’t think either of you gentlemen had any statehouse experience before, but you had both been staffers and both been chiefs of staff for your respective Members and so you certainly were familiar with the routine and the rules and everything else; these things didn’t come as a surprise. Still you shifted from staff to a Member of Congress. Bob Michel what was your first thought. Bob Michel: Well of course you’re right, being here as an assistant earlier you knew pretty much a number of the people there and the procedures, so it wasn’t brand spanking new like it is for someone who sees the floor of the House for the first time. But, there’s something special when you’re elected yourself and down there in the well of the House taking the oath of office and thinking “My gosh here I am Bobby Michel from Peoria getting sworn in as a member of the Congress of the United States at 33 years of age and look what you’ve got ahead of you.” It was a momentous moment, there’s no question about it. Of course, serving 38 years, but the real distinction my dear friend Tom Foley and me, I spent all my years in the minority, 38 years, and never chaired anything, eventually except for the time the goodness of the Speaker on the last day I was in the Congress and he yielded the gavel to me and I think the House gave us a big round of applause that I finally made it to the top for a few moments. Sarasin: Tom, Tom Foley, what was your experience on that first day? 2 Tom Foley: I wasn’t chief of staff, as Bob was; I was a special counsel on the Senate Interior Committee. I came back to Washington D.C in 1963 to work for Scoop Jackson, 1961 actually, to work for Scoop Jackson and then served on the Interior Committee of the Senate where he was next in line to the chairmanship. Anyway, he talked to me from time to time about the possibility of running for Congress. I was single and enjoying Washington and didn’t pay much attention to it. But, anyway, I was out in the state and I—through a series of events—I filed at the last minute for Congress in 1964 and won the election. So, I came back to Washington, as Bob did, as somebody who had always been there at least for a few years, going over to the House as a Member was an entirely different thing and I remember both parties were to have orientation programs for Members when they arrived. Republicans would be briefed by the Republican leader and the Democratic Members would be briefed by the Speaker, then John McCormack. He greeted our group, which was a pretty large one by saying, “You know, I don’t think any of us here will take you too seriously unless you get reelected. People get elected by accident. You may be one of the accidental ones. But, in two years time if you’re still here then we’ll take you with some seriousness.” Well that was kind of a dash of cold water. But the impression is still tremendous when you raise your hand and take the oath of office. I think that was an emotional thing for me, all during the time I served in Congress, including the time when I was Speaker and had the privilege of administering the oath to other members. It’s a post- Civil War oath and it asks the Members to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic; and to bear true faith and allegiance the same. And that you take this oath without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion and that you will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office of which you are about to enter, so help you God. I still get a little emotional when I think about it. And then the Speaker would say, “You are now Members of Congress. Welcome to the House of Representatives.” I don’t think I ever went through a ceremony, either receiving the oath or giving it, 3 where I didn’t feel it was an enormous privilege to represent 500,000 or 600,000 of your constituents. Michel: It should be said, I think, that before the Speaker administers the oath to all those who are bona-fidely elected from their districts, he was given the oath by the senior Member of the House of Representatives. That’s the way the proceedings began when you started a Congress. In these last few times, of course, it’s been Mr. John Dingell from Michigan who’s succeeded his father and has served down here now for, boy I forget how many years it’s been, but he’s going to be setting a record, I think by the time he completes his tenure. Sarasin: It ought to be close to 50 if not there yet. [Editor’s note: John D. Dingell (D-MI) entered Congress in December 1955]. Foley: We take almost all of our parliamentary institutions from the British House of Commons because when we became a country in 1789, and earlier under the Articles, the Speaker was a reflection of the British Speaker. When I was elected Speaker, which was the second greatest honor after being elected a Member. I had a visit from Bernard Weatherall, who was then the Speaker of the House of Commons in London and he asked me what number speaker I was. And I said, “Well, Mr. Speaker, I’m the 49th, and he said he was the 302nd. And I said, “Well, sir, that’s what we call in the United States a put-down.” And he said, “Well, you know, by various accounts we started in 1258 or in 1376 and several of us were beheaded. Particularly when the king was in a bad mood.” For a long time in the British history, the Speaker was thought to be really an officer of the crown. As the office evolved, in 1642, when King Charles I entered the House of Commons to search for and arrest five members for high treason, the King asked him whether he knew the location of the members. The Speaker William Lenthall famously replied, “May it please your majesty, I have neither eyes to see nor tongue to speak in this place but as the House is pleased to direct me, whose servant I am here.” So the idea developed that the Speaker was, in Britain, not only the first commoner but 4 represented the House not the crown. Today, that’s embodied in our tradition. The Constitution says the Speaker in the House shall choose “c-h-u-s-e” its Speaker and other officers. But there’s no time like your first term, your first election and your first oath of office in the House. You may repeat it many times but that’s a tremendous moment. Michel: Well then Mr. Speaker, you mentioned the word put-down and I’m reminded of that great story you tell. When you were first coming to the Congress and I guess I forget who it was the chairman of the Congressional Campaign Committee who had the greatest of advice for you as a junior member and then, of course, you went up through the ranks of all the positions. And then found out he was right. Give ‘em a little bit of that. Foley: Well, that was the same meeting, the first meeting, where the Speaker, McCormack, said that if we come back in two years he’ll pay attention to us. The only other person who spoke was the senior member from Ohio, Mike Kirwan, who was the absolute power in public works. You couldn’t get a sidewalk built in the United States with federal money except that it went through his committee with his blessing. He was a rather rascal gentleman and he said he wanted to give some advice to the new Members. He said, “To avoid the most single devastatingly bad thing you can do here.” We thought this was some kind of ethical violation. And he leaned forward and said “You know what that is? That great mistake is thinking for yourselves. No don’t do that please. You know, listen to the subcommittee chairman, listen to the committee chairman, follow the chairman of the Democratic caucus, obey the wishes of the majority leader, and especially, pray God, support, follow, and revere the Speaker.” I remember being personally outraged. I couldn’t say anything because in those days you couldn’t speak up. But I thought: this is outrageous; I mean I didn’t come back here to Washington to take dictation from some senior Pooh-Bah in the Democratic Party.
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