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Minutes Have Been Seen by the Administration) 立法會 Legislative Council Ref : CB2/BC/3/18 LC Paper No. CB(2)1457/18-19 (These minutes have been seen by the Administration) Bills Committee on National Anthem Bill Minutes of the fourth meeting held on Monday, 18 March 2019, from 8:45 am to 10:45 am in Conference Room 1 of the Legislative Council Complex Members : Hon Martin LIAO Cheung-kong, SBS, JP (Chairman) present Hon CHEUNG Kwok-kwan, JP (Deputy Chairman) Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung Hon Tommy CHEUNG Yu-yan, GBS, JP Prof Hon Joseph LEE Kok-long, SBS, JP Hon Jeffrey LAM Kin-fung, GBS, JP Hon WONG Ting-kwong, GBS, JP Hon Starry LEE Wai-king, SBS, JP Hon CHAN Hak-kan, BBS, JP Hon CHAN Kin-por, GBS, JP Dr Hon Priscilla LEUNG Mei-fun, SBS, JP Hon WONG Kwok-kin, SBS, JP Hon Paul TSE Wai-chun, JP Hon Claudia MO Hon Michael TIEN Puk-sun, BBS, JP Hon Frankie YICK Chi-ming, SBS, JP Hon WU Chi-wai, MH Hon YIU Si-wing, BBS Hon MA Fung-kwok, SBS, JP Hon Charles Peter MOK, JP Hon CHAN Chi-chuen Hon CHAN Han-pan, BBS, JP Hon LEUNG Che-cheung, SBS, MH, JP Hon Kenneth LEUNG Hon Alice MAK Mei-kuen, BBS, JP Dr Hon KWOK Ka-ki Hon KWOK Wai-keung, JP Hon Dennis KWOK Wing-hang Hon Christopher CHEUNG Wah-fung, SBS, JP Dr Hon Helena WONG Pik-wan Hon IP Kin-yuen - 2 - Dr Hon Elizabeth QUAT, BBS, JP Dr Hon CHIANG Lai-wan, SBS, JP Ir Dr Hon LO Wai-kwok, SBS, MH, JP Hon Alvin YEUNG Hon Andrew WAN Siu-kin Hon CHU Hoi-dick Hon Jimmy NG Wing-ka, JP Dr Hon Junius HO Kwan-yiu, JP Hon HO Kai-ming Hon LAM Cheuk-ting Hon Holden CHOW Ho-ding Hon SHIU Ka-fai Hon SHIU Ka-chun Hon Wilson OR Chong-shing, MH Hon YUNG Hoi-yan Hon CHAN Chun-ying, JP Hon Tanya CHAN Hon HUI Chi-fung Hon LUK Chung-hung, JP Hon LAU Kwok-fan, MH Hon Kenneth LAU Ip-keung, BBS, MH, JP Dr Hon CHENG Chung-tai Hon KWONG Chun-yu Hon Jeremy TAM Man-ho Hon Gary FAN Kwok-wai Hon AU Nok-hin Hon Vincent CHENG Wing-shun, MH Hon Tony TSE Wai-chuen, BBS Hon CHAN Hoi-yan Members : Hon James TO Kun-sun absent Hon Mrs Regina IP LAU Suk-yee, GBS, JP Hon Steven HO Chun-yin, BBS Dr Hon Fernando CHEUNG Chiu-hung Public Officers : Mr Roy TANG Yun-kwong, JP attending Permanent Secretary for Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Ms Cordelia LAM Wai-ki Principal Assistant Secretary for Constitutional and Mainland Affairs - 3 - Ms Jocelyn NG Wai-chung Assistant Secretary for Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Mr Lawrence PENG Si-yun Deputy Law Draftsman (Acting) Department of Justice Mr Jonathan LUK King-hang Senior Government Counsel Department of Justice Clerk in : Ms Joanne MAK attendance Chief Council Secretary (2) 3 Staff in : Mr Kelvin LEE attendance Senior Assistant Legal Adviser 3 Miss Rachel DAI Assistant Legal Adviser 2 Ms Jasmine TAM Senior Council Secretary (2) 3 Mr Dennis HO Council Secretary (2) 3 Mrs Fonny TSANG Legislative Assistant (2) 3 Action I. Meeting with the Administration [File Ref.: CMAB E4/1/1, LC Paper Nos. CB(2)995/18-19(01), CB(3)307/18-19,LS42/18-19, CB(2)811/18-19(01) and CB(2)893/18-19(02)] 1. The Bills Committee deliberated (index of proceedings attached at Annex). Members' letters raising questions relating to the policy discussion of the Bill 2. The Chairman requested that members who wished to send letters to the Administration, through the Secretariat, raising questions relating to the policy - 4 - Action discussion of the Bill to seek the Administration's written response should provide such letters to the Secretariat by 22 March 2019. Members' comments on the arrangement are summarized at Annex. (At 9:08 am, the Chairman ruled that the conduct of Mr HUI Chi-fung was grossly disorderly and ordered him to withdraw immediately from the meeting in accordance with Rule 45(2) of the Rules of Procedure.) (At 9:09 am, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen drew to the Chairman's attention that a quorum was not present. The Chairman ordered the ringing of the quorum bell to summon members to the meeting. The meeting resumed at 9:13 am when a quorum was present.) Follow-up action required of the Administration Admin 3. The Administration was requested to provide the hyperlink to the Report of the Legislative Affairs Commission of the National People's Congress on proposed amendments to the Law of the People's Republic of China on the National Anthem (Second Draft) (全國人民代表大會法律委員會關於 《中華人民共和國國歌法(草案二次審議稿)》修改意見的報告). (At 10:47 am, the Chairman directed that the meeting be extended by 15 minutes beyond the appointed ending time.) Date of next meeting 4. Members noted that the next meeting would be held on Wednesday, 27 March 2019, from 8:45 am to 10:45 am. II. Any other business 5. There being no other business, the meeting ended at 11:00 am. Council Business Division 2 Legislative Council Secretariat 16 May 2019 Annex Proceedings of the fourth meeting of the Bills Committee on National Anthem Bill on Monday, 18 March 2019, from 8:45 am to 10:45 am in Conference Room 1 of the Legislative Council Complex Time Speaker(s) Subject(s)/Discussion Action Marker required 001241 - Chairman Opening remarks 003648 Dr KWOK Ka-ki Ms Tanya CHAN Deadline for submission of written questions relating to the Mr HUI Chi-fung policy discussion of the Bill Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung Mr AU Lok-hin Some members expressed dissatisfaction with the imposition of the above deadline as they considered that the arrangement would prevent members from raising further questions in the light of new developments in the course of the scrutiny of the Bill, and members' scrutiny power would thus be undermined. They considered that it would also set a bad precedent. Moreover, they were concerned that the above arrangement might imply that members would no longer be allowed to raise questions on policy issues after the Bills Committee had commenced the clause-by-clause examination of the Bill. The Chairman clarified that the aforesaid arrangement would not prevent members from writing to the Administration to seek written response to questions relating to the policy discussion of the Bill after 22 March, but only that such letters would then be submitted by members to the Administration themselves rather than through the Secretariat. Members who wrote to the Administration after 22 March could copy their letters to other members and the Clerk if they wished. The Chairman further said that the Bill had been introduced into the Legislative Council ("LegCo") for over one month, and that the Bills Committee had already held three meetings to discuss relevant policy issues. He trusted that members should have no problem meeting the deadline. Moreover, he would still allow oral/written questions to be raised on policy issues relating to the provisions of the Bill during the clause-by-clause examination of the Bill. (Post-meeting note: members may refer to the Clerk's letter dated 3 April 2019 [LC Paper No. CB(2)1157/18-19(01)] for details of the relevant arrangements.) 003649 - Chairman The Administration's briefing on its response to issues raised 003947 Administration at the meeting on 1 March 2019 [LC Paper No. CB(2)995/18-19(01)] ("the Administration's paper") . 003948 - Chairman Referring to paragraphs 5 and 6 of the Administration's paper, 004414 Dr KWOK Ka-ki Dr KWOK Ka-ki queried whether the Bill would be a new Administration tool to restrict the right to the freedom of speech and to institute political prosecutions by charging dissidents the offence of insulting the national anthem. The Administration responded that all the legal proceedings relating to the offence would be conducted in accordance with the relevant common law principles and usual standard for criminal cases in Hong Kong. - 2 - Time Speaker(s) Subject(s)/Discussion Action Marker required 004415 - Chairman Referring to paragraph 15 of the Administration's paper, 004836 Mr Alvin YEUNG Mr Alvin YEUNG asked under what circumstances a school Administration would be regarded as failing to comply with the directions given by the Secretary for Education ("SED") under clause 9 of the Bill and whether the Education Bureau ("EDB") would cancel the registration of a school due to its failure to comply with such directions. The Administration referred to similar experience in promoting the learning of the national flag and the national emblem for members' reference. It said that following the enactment of the National Flag and National Emblem Ordinance ("NFNEO"), SED had issued, through the existing mechanism, a circular to schools to provide guidelines on the display of the national flag. The circular did not prescribe specifically how schools should teach students about the national flag and national emblem. Regarding the handling of non-compliance with SED's directions, EDB all along had administrative measures in place to follow up complaints about irregularities identified in school operation, such as giving verbal/written advice. According to EDB, as such irregularities were usually rectified by the schools concerned swiftly, the Permanent Secretary for Education ("PSED") had not considered invoking the relevant provision of the Education Ordinance (Cap. 279) to cancel the registration of any school. In response to Mr YEUNG's further enquiry, the Administration confirmed that how a school would teach the national anthem would have no direct bearing on the school's registration or the cancellation of its registration.
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