立法會 Legislative Council LC Paper No. FC207/17-18 (These minutes have been seen by the Administration) Ref : FC/1/1(25) Finance Committee of the Legislative Council Minutes of the 50th meeting held at Conference Room 1 of the Legislative Council Complex on Saturday, 17 June 2017, at 8:45 am Members present: Hon CHAN Kin-por, BBS, JP (Chairman) Hon Michael TIEN Puk-sun, BBS, JP (Deputy Chairman) Hon James TO Kun-sun Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung Hon Tommy CHEUNG Yu-yan, GBS, JP Prof Hon Joseph LEE Kok-long, SBS, JP Hon Jeffrey LAM Kin-fung, GBS, JP Hon WONG Ting-kwong, SBS, JP Hon Starry LEE Wai-king, SBS, JP Hon CHAN Hak-kan, BBS, JP Hon WONG Kwok-kin, SBS, JP Hon Mrs Regina IP LAU Suk-yee, GBS, JP Hon Paul TSE Wai-chun, JP Hon LEUNG Kwok-hung Hon Claudia MO Hon Frankie YICK Chi-ming, JP Hon WU Chi-wai, MH Hon YIU Si-wing, BBS Hon MA Fung-kwok, SBS, JP Hon Charles Peter MOK, JP Hon CHAN Chi-chuen Hon LEUNG Che-cheung, BBS, MH, JP Hon Kenneth LEUNG Hon Alice MAK Mei-kuen, BBS, JP - 2 - Hon KWOK Wai-keung Hon Dennis KWOK Wing-hang Dr Hon Fernando CHEUNG Chiu-hung Dr Hon Helena WONG Pik-wan Hon IP Kin-yuen Dr Hon Elizabeth QUAT, JP Hon Martin LIAO Cheung-kong, SBS, JP Hon POON Siu-ping, BBS, MH Dr Hon CHIANG Lai-wan, JP Ir Dr Hon LO Wai-kwok, SBS, MH, JP Hon Alvin YEUNG Hon Andrew WAN Siu-kin Hon CHU Hoi-dick Hon Jimmy NG Wing-ka, JP Dr Hon Junius HO Kwan-yiu, JP Hon HO Kai-ming Hon LAM Cheuk-ting Hon Holden CHOW Ho-ding Hon SHIU Ka-fai Hon SHIU Ka-chun Hon Wilson OR Chong-shing, MH Hon YUNG Hoi-yan Dr Hon Pierre CHAN Hon CHAN Chun-ying Hon CHEUNG Kwok-kwan, JP Hon HUI Chi-fung Hon LUK Chung-hung Hon LAU Kwok-fan, MH Dr Hon CHENG Chung-tai Hon KWONG Chun-yu Hon Jeremy TAM Man-ho Hon Nathan LAW Kwun-chung Dr Hon YIU Chung-yim Dr Hon LAU Siu-lai - 3 - Members absent: Hon Abraham SHEK Lai-him, GBS, JP Dr Hon Priscilla LEUNG Mei-fun, SBS, JP Hon Steven HO Chun-yin, BBS Hon CHAN Han-pan, JP Dr Hon KWOK Ka-ki Hon Christopher CHEUNG Wah-fung, SBS, JP Hon CHUNG Kwok-pan Hon Tanya CHAN Hon Kenneth LAU Ip-keung, MH, JP [According to the Judgment of the Court of First Instance of the High Court on 14 July 2017, LEUNG Kwok-hung, Nathan LAW Kwun-chung, YIU Chung-yim and LAU Siu-lai have been disqualified from assuming the office of a member of the Legislative Council, and have vacated the same since 12 October 2016, and are not entitled to act as a member of the Legislative Council.] Public officers attending: Ms Elizabeth TSE Man-yee, JP Permanent Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury (Treasury) Ms Carol YUEN, JP Deputy Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury (Treasury) 1 Mr Alfred ZHI Jian-hong Principal Executive Officer (General), Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau (The Treasury Branch) Mr YAU Shing-mu, JP Under Secretary for Transport and Housing Mr Raymond CHENG Nim-tai Principal Assistant Secretary for Transport and Housing (Transport) 7 Mr Daniel CHUNG Kum-wah, JP Director of Highways Mr Jimmy CHAN Pai-ming, JP Principal Government Engineer (Railway Development), Highways Department Mr Frankie CHOU Wing-ping Chief Engineer (Railway Development)1-2, Highways Department Dr Philco WONG Projects Director, MTR Corporation Limited Mr Ken WONG General Manager (Projects), MTR Corporation Limited - 4 - Mr Jason WONG General Manager (SCL Civil (EWL)), MTR Corporation Limited Mr Stephen YAU Manager (Estimates, Cost Control and Logistics), MTR Corporation Limited Ms Prudence CHAN Senior Manager (Projects and Property Communications), MTR Corporation Limited Mr LAU Kong-wah, JP Secretary for Home Affairs Mrs Betty FUNG CHING Permanent Secretary for Home Affairs Suk-yee, JP Mr YEUNG Tak-keung, JP Commissioner for Sports, Home Affairs Bureau Ms Linda LAW Lai-tan Principal Assistant Secretary for Home Affairs (Recreation and Sport) 2 Clerk in attendance: Ms Anita SIT Assistant Secretary General 1 Staff in attendance: Mr Derek LO Chief Council Secretary (1)5 Ms Ada LAU Senior Council Secretary (1)7 Mr Raymond SZETO Council Secretary (1)5 Mr Frankie WOO Senior Legislative Assistant (1)3 Miss Yannes HO Legislative Assistant (1)6 ____________________________________________________________ Action - 5 - Item No. 1 ― FCR(2017-18)10 RECOMMENDATION OF THE PUBLIC WORKS SUBCOMMITTEE MADE ON 5 APRIL 2017 PWSC(2016-17)43 HEAD 706 ― HIGHWAYS Transport ― Railways 63TR ― Shatin to Central Link—construction of railway works—advance works 1. The Chairman said that the Finance Committee ("FC") continued with the deliberation on item FCR(2017-18)10 which sought FC's approval for the recommendation of the Public Works Subcommittee ("PWSC") made at its meeting held on 5 April 2017, i.e. the recommendation set out in PWSC(2016-17)43 to increase the approved project estimate of 63TR (Shatin to Central Link ("SCL")－construction of railway works－advance works) by $847.7 million from $6,254.9 million to $7,102.6 million in money-of-the-day prices. 2. The Chairman reminded members of the direction he made at the last meeting that members should proceed to the final round of speaking on this item. Mr James TO criticized the Chairman for making such a decision. Declaration of interest 3. The Chairman declared that he was an independent non-executive director of The Bank of East Asia. 4. At the request of Mr James TO, the Chairman clarified that there was no relation between The Bank of East Asia and this item. His usual practice was to declare, in respect of each project item, the other offices held by him. 5. Mr SHIU Ka-fai declared that the subsidiaries of his companies might have engaged in business transactions with the MTR Corporation Limited ("MTRCL"), but he himself was not involved in such transactions. Site investigation issues 6. Mr James TO asked whether the investigation problems associated with this project involved human negligence. Action - 6 - 7. The Director of Highways ("D of Hy") responded that investigation arrangements for this project were made according to the actual work site conditions. As mentioned by MTRCL, engineering personnel were unable to completely follow the guidelines when conducting the investigation works due to the presence of other buildings within the site area. 8. Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung pointed out that the SCL project had incurred cost overruns because of investigation problems, and it was possible that such problems were attributable to an obsolete Geoguide based on which the investigation works had proceeded. He enquired whether the Administration had planned for a review of the Geoguide and whether it had any plans to do so. Mr James TO was of the view that if an updated Geoguide could help improve the accuracy of the investigation works for other projects, thereby reducing the risks of cost overruns, the Administration should expeditiously work on the updates. 9. D of Hy responded that the Geoguide was only a general guide. The ground investigation needs of individual projects still required the determination made by the responsible professionals at the design stage. According to the Development Bureau, the Geotechnical Engineering Office would update the Geoguide from time to time, and the latest update was done in 2014. He would relay members' views to the Development Bureau for reference. 10. The Projects Director, MTRCL pointed out that, regarding the actual investigation works conducted under the SCL project, the SCL works site was situated in built-up areas, which presented much more complex situations as compared with similar projects that had been undertaken in the past. MTRCL still encountered quite a number of difficulties even though it had followed the investigation requirements specified in the Geoguide. Motions proposed by members under paragraph 37A of the Finance Committee Procedure 11. At 8:54 am, the Chairman declared that FC would start to deal with the motions proposed by members under paragraph 37A of the Finance Committee Procedure ("FCP") ("FCP 37A motions"). Action - 7 - 12. The Chairman immediately put the motion numbered 0001 proposed by Mr CHAN Chi-chuen to FC for deciding whether it should be proceeded with forthwith. At the request of members, the Chairman ordered a division. The Chairman declared that the question on whether the motion should be proceeded with forthwith was negatived. Motions moved under paragraph 47 of the Finance Committee Procedure 13. Dr Fernando CHEUNG sought to move that in the event of further divisions being claimed in respect of any motions under the same agenda item, FC should proceed to each of such divisions immediately after the division bell had been rung for four minutes. The Chairman responded that members could either move under FCP 47 that in the event of further divisions being claimed in respect of any motions under the same agenda item, FC should proceed to each of such divisions immediately after the division bell had been rung for one minute, or stick to the original procedure under which FC should proceed to the divisions immediately after the division bell had been rung for five minutes. 14. Mr CHAN Hak-kan moved a motion under FCP 47 that in the event of further divisions being claimed in respect of any motions under the same agenda item, FC should proceed to each of such divisions immediately after the division bell had been rung for one minute.