Thursday Volume 498 29 October 2009 No. 133

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Thursday 29 October 2009

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2009 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 421 29 OCTOBER 2009 422

House of Commons CANTERBURY CITY COUNCIL BILL Motion made, That the promoters of the Canterbury City Council Bill which Thursday 29 October 2009 was originally introduced in this House in the previous Session on 22 January 2008, should have leave to suspend any further proceedings on the Bill in order to proceed with it, if they think fit, in the next The House met at half-past Ten o’clock Session of Parliament according to the provisions of Private Business Standing Order 188A (Suspension of bills).—(The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.) PRAYERS Hon. Members: To be considered on Thursday 5 November. [MR.SPEAKER in the Chair]

LEEDS CITY COUNCIL BILL BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS Motion made, That the promoters of the Leeds City Council Bill which was CANTERBURY CITY COUNCIL BILL (BY ORDER) originally introduced in this House in the previous Session on Third Reading opposed and deferred until Thursday 22 January 2008, should have leave to suspend any further proceedings 5 November (Standing Order No. 20). on the Bill in order to proceed with it, if they think fit, in the next Session of Parliament according to the provisions of Private Business Standing Order 188A (Suspension of bills).—(The Second NOTTINGHAM CITY COUNCIL BILL (BY ORDER) Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.) Third Reading opposed and deferred until Thursday 5 November (Standing Order No. 20). Hon. Members: Object. To be considered on Thursday 5 November. BOURNEMOUTH BOROUGH COUNCIL BILL [LORDS] (BY ORDER) NOTTINGHAM CITY COUNCIL BILL Consideration of Bill, as amended, opposed and deferred Motion made, until Thursday 5 November (Standing Order No. 20). That the promoters of the Nottingham City Council Bill which was originally introduced in this House in the previous Session on MANCHESTER CITY COUNCIL BILL [LORDS] 22 January 2008, should have leave to suspend any further proceedings (BY ORDER) on the Bill in order to proceed with it, if they think fit, in the next Consideration of Bill, as amended, opposed and deferred Session of Parliament according to the provisions of Private until Thursday 5 November (Standing Order No. 20). Business Standing Order 188A (Suspension of bills).—(The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.)

CITY OF WESTMINSTER BILL [LORDS] Hon. Members: Object. Motion made, To be considered on Thursday 5 November. That so much of the Lords message [12 October] as relates to the City of Westminster Bill [Lords] be now considered.— (The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.) READING BOROUGH COUNCIL BILL Motion made, Hon. Members: Object. That the promoters of the Reading Borough Council Bill To be considered on Thursday 5 November. which was originally introduced in this House in the previous Session on 22 January 2008, should have leave to suspend any BOURNEMOUTH BOROUGH COUNCIL BILL [LORDS] further proceedings on the Bill in order to proceed with it, if they think fit, in the next Session of Parliament according to the Motion made, provisions of Private Business Standing Order 188A (Suspension That the promoters of the Bournemouth Borough Council Bill of bills).—(The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.) which was originally introduced in the House of Lords in the Session 2006-07 on 22 January 2007, should have leave to suspend Hon. Members: Object. any further proceedings on the Bill in order to proceed with it, if they think fit, in the next Session of Parliament according to the To be considered on Thursday 5 November. provisions of Private Business Standing Order 188A (Suspension of bills).—(The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.) Hon. Members: Object. Oral Answers to Questions To be considered on Thursday 5 November.

MANCHESTER CITY COUNCIL BILL [LORDS] ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Motion made, That the promoters of the Manchester City Council Bill which was originally introduced in the House of Lords in the Session The Secretary of State was asked— 2006-07 on 22 January 2007, should have leave to suspend any further proceedings on the Bill in order to proceed with it, if they Natural Environment think fit, in the next Session of Parliament according to the provisions of Private Business Standing Order 188A (Suspension of bills).—(The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.) 1. Mrs. Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab): What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of Hon. Members: Object. his Department’s policies to protect the natural To be considered on Thursday 5 November. environment; and if he will make a statement. [296300] 423 Oral Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Oral Answers 424

The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and State talks of more targets for some date way in the Rural Affairs (Hilary Benn): We have seen improvements future. Is it not the truth that there remains a marked in water quality, more species have been protected, lack of will in the Government to reverse biodiversity pollution levels are decreasing, and 89 per cent. of our loss? sites of special scientific interest are in a favourable or recovering condition. However, we all need to do more Hilary Benn: I profoundly disagree with that last to protect our natural environment, and securing a statement. The Government are very committed. If the good deal at Copenhagen would be a very important hon. Gentleman considers, for example, bird numbers, step forward. we have managed in this country to stop the decline that happened between the 1970s and the 1990s. The number Mrs. Moon: My right hon. Friend will be aware that of sea birds is up, we have offered protection to Lyme last Monday night I hosted the fourth annual bat and bay to safeguard the pink sea fan and there are otters in moth evening in the House. A large number of Members every single English county for the first time in 40 years. attended to see how those vital species, which are However, we need to do more, and the point about interdependent, are declining. In this year when we are having a target is that it gives one something to aim for. celebrating 150 years since the writing of “On the Origin of Species”, and with next year being the Floods (Pitt Report) international year of biodiversity, what is he going to do to ensure that in another 150 years, our descendants 2. Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): What progress has will not be attending museums and looking at further been made in implementing the recommendations of bat and moth species that we have lost? the final Pitt report on the 2007 floods. [296301]

Hilary Benn: I congratulate my hon. Friend on hosting The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the event, and I am sorry that I was not able to join her Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Huw Irranca-Davies): for it. The single most important thing that we can do is The Government published their response to the Pitt understand and appreciate more the value of biodiversity, review last December. It set out what we had already including what it does for us, because it is fundamental achieved and what we needed to do to implement the to human existence and we have taken it for granted for remaining recommendations. far too long. It sustains our economy, our clean water We published the first progress report in June 2009, and air and the production of our food. We need next and it showed that further good progress had been year to get a new target internationally agreed that we made across the board. The next progress report will be can measure and make progress on. published in December.

Mr. Nicholas Soames (Mid-Sussex) (Con): Does the Philip Davies: Does the Minister agree that one of the Secretary of State agree that the scourge of ragwort is a best ways to stop houses being flooded is to stop shame to this country? His Department has issued a building them on floodplains? If he agrees, why have the code, which appears to be widely ignored. Will he Government presided over building so many houses on therefore take steps to see to it that this infection is so many floodplains? removed from our countryside? Huw Irranca-Davies: Ultimately, the hon. Gentleman Hilary Benn: I share the hon. Gentleman’s concern, knows about the progress on the review of planning and we are trying to find the most effective way to deal policy guidance note 25 and that approximately 98 per with such invasive species. I am happy to write to him to cent. of developments follow the Environment Agency’s set out the steps that we are seeking to take. recommendations. I am slightly disappointed that he has not remarked on the doubling of investment under Mr. Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Does the Government for flood defences since 1997. my right hon. Friend agree that if we are to protect the natural environment, we have to get people to visit it? Mr. Eric Martlew (Carlisle) (Lab): The Pitt inquiry Has he seen the Natural England survey showing that states that the public utilities should be protected—the children’s access to green space and the natural environment fresh water, electricity and waste water plants. That was has halved in a generation. What are the Government especially a problem when Carlisle flooded. Has satisfactory going to do about that? progress been made on that?

Hilary Benn: I have seen that report, and I share my Huw Irranca-Davies: That is an important point and hon. Friend’s desire that more people should have the I am pleased to tell my hon. Friend that we set up a new chance to get out there. The national parks provide a Cabinet Office team to ensure that critical national wonderful opportunity for that, and of course the coastal infrastructure—for example, power stations—is properly access provisions of the Marine and Coastal Access protected from flooding. If we are lucky in what may be Bill, which received its Third Reading earlier this week, in the Queen’s Speech—we can never second-guess it—there will provide further opportunities for young people and is an imperative under the Labour Government to get others to enjoy the beauty of our countryside. on and deliver the legislation that will give further protection to homes, businesses and infrastructure. Mr. Richard Benyon (Newbury) (Con): It is clear that the Government will break their promise to halt biodiversity Miss Anne McIntosh (Vale of York) (Con): This loss by 2010. In an admission of failure to the Cabinet Office team was meant to meet last year and Environmental Audit Committee, they said that it was report by the spring on a national audit of all critical “never realistically achievable”. Now the Secretary of infrastructure at risk. Why has it failed to do that? 425 Oral Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Oral Answers 426

Huw Irranca-Davies: I am pleased to report that that The Minister of State, Department for Environment, work is well under way. Every time we stand at the Food and Rural Affairs (Jim Fitzpatrick): We provide a Dispatch Box, Conservative Front Benchers harry the range of assistance to local food chains, including helping Government to do more. They simply ignore what has regional and local food producers to overcome various been done—the £9.7 million awarded to 77 local authorities barriers to market. We have funded meet-the-buyer with the highest risk and potential for surface water events for both retailers and the food service sector. We flooding; the £5 million currently open for bids to deal also support farmers markets and farm shops, and with well-known local flooding problems; the £1 million encourage the use of food hubs and shared distribution for training, data and other tools for local authorities; facilities. and our work on flood forecasting. Sometimes it would pay to stand up and recognise the work that is being Mr. Drew: I thank the Minister for that answer. It is done. common for people to mouth support for local food chains, but in the past year, two box schemes that I belonged to finished prematurely, which is very Mr. Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich, West) (Lab/Co-op): disappointing. There is clearly a problem in this day and As a native of Gloucestershire, I saw at first hand the age. I wonder whether the Government ought to do devastation caused by flooding in the Tewkesbury, more, and certainly whether they ought to encourage Gloucester and Cheltenham area. I hope that the Minister local authorities to do more. agrees that measures to ensure that that never happens again should be introduced as a matter of urgency. Jim Fitzpatrick: I am sure that we would want to do What prospects are there of a suitable Bill in the Queen’s more. Only last week I had a useful meeting with Speech? What assessment has my hon. Friend made of representatives from the National Farmers Retail and securing all-party support to get it through as quickly Markets Association to discuss a range of issues relating as possible? to farmers and markets and farm shops. I commend my hon. Friend on the excellent local food initiatives in his Huw Irranca-Davies: I assure my hon. Friend that we constituency. Only last week, officials from the food are very keen to get on. I welcome the fact that at a policy unit in the Department for Environment, Food conference run by Marketforce and the Institute of and Rural Affairs visited Gloucestershire to find out Economic Affairs as recently as 15 October, my Opposition more about a wide range of food-oriented activities that Front-Bench colleague said that are taking place in the county. I am sure that we will be “we are concerned that a Bill may be dropped from this final able to use the information and disseminate it to local session altogether. The Government will have serious questions to authorities to improve the situation even further. answer if, two years after the Pitt report, there is not only no legislation for the water industry but also nothing to address the Mr. Desmond Swayne (New Forest, West) (Con): Did urgent problem of flooding.” the Minister hear the piece on “Farming Today” this morning on what is likely to happen to food prices over I can tell my hon. Friend that, through consultation on the next 20 years? I will not try your patience, Mr. Speaker, the draft Bill and through our work, we are keen to get so may I just ask the Minister whether he will add his on with it. We cannot presuppose the contents of the voice to mine in seeking a full day’s debate on agriculture Queen’s Speech, but I hope that, on the basis of what I from the Leader of the House? have said, we will have full, solid and cross-party support to deliver the protection that we need for homes and Jim Fitzpatrick: I remember fondly my first week as businesses. Minister of State with responsibility for farming, from 9 June, when I believe that we had two debates in the Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): May I House on agriculture. We would welcome more debates ask about the property-level flood protection grant on agriculture. I suggest the hon. Gentleman applies to scheme? If householders take measures at their own your good offices, Mr. Speaker, for that very opportunity. risk in advance of the survey, which is part of that We would be delighted to meet him across the Dispatch procedure, is it the case that they cannot be paid Box. retrospectively for the work done? That seems unfair. It is no good waiting until it rains before taking the Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): As we celebrate measures needed to protect one’s home. British food week, may I tell the House that I recently visited the Anglesey oyster fair in my constituency, where I saw the very best of British food? One issue that Huw Irranca-Davies: My understanding is that that is local producers raised with me was the barrier to getting a matter for local authorities, many of which, as the into local supermarkets. Is it not about time that we had hon. Gentleman knows, have applied and bid for the a proper champion—an ombudsman—to redress the funding. However, I am more than happy to write to balance in favour of the British consumer and the him with details to clarify the point that he has raised. It British producer and away from the supermarket? is important, and when people take responsible approaches to their properties’ resilience, that needs to be recognised, Jim Fitzpatrick: I think my hon. Friend has managed but I will write to him. to merge three questions into one: the retail sector supporting local produce, barriers to local producers Local Food Chains getting into supermarkets and the ombudsman. I can assure him that on the ombudsman, the Government are considering the Competition Commission’s 3. Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): What recommendations. I can also assure him that we are assistance his Department provides to local food doing what we can to ensure that local producers can chains. [296302] get into supermarkets. 427 Oral Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Oral Answers 428

Farmers (Suicides) Mr. James Paice (South-East Cambridgeshire) (Con): I wish to pursue the same line of questioning. Has the 4. Jane Kennedy (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab): What Secretary of State yet seen and read the report, which I representations he has received on the number of am told is now available, by vets on the continued suicides amongst farmers whose cattle herds are subject studies of the incidence of TB after proactive culling to bovine tuberculosis movement and testing has ended in the trial areas? Will he publish it soon, and restrictions; and if he will make a statement. [296303] then we will all know that the incidence has continued to decline since the culling of badgers stopped? The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Hilary Benn): I have not received any Hilary Benn: The publication of that research information particular representations about this, but earlier this is a matter for the journals who publish these things, year the Farming Crisis Network produced its sobering and it has to be in a form suitable for publication. As report on the impact of bovine TB on farming families. soon as it is publicly available, I will ensure that it is This showed, as we all know, that for those most seriously placed in the Library so that we may all see what it has affected, the economic and particularly the human to say. consequences of bovine TB are devastating. The TB eradication group for England has since met with the Common Agricultural Policy executive director of the FCN to discuss how TB-affected farm businesses could be better supported. 5. Mr. Michael Moore (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) (LD): What recent discussions his Department Jane Kennedy: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend has had with the European Commission on reform of for that answer. Will he consider the recommendations the common agricultural policy. [296304] in the detail of the report, alongside the good work that the Department is doing on cattle movements and The Minister of State, Department for Environment, testing regimes? In particular, will he look at the impact Food and Rural Affairs (Jim Fitzpatrick): The Department on farmers whose herds are subject to testing every 60 for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has ongoing days? That happens in some cases, and it is a devastating discussions on reform of the common agricultural policy regime for the farm and the family. with the Commission both formally and informally, including at regular meetings of the Agriculture Council, Hilary Benn: I know that my right hon. Friend took a the last of which I attended on 19 October. The next great deal of interest in the matter and I pay tribute to phase of negotiations will begin informally next year her work on it. The TB eradication group that we have with the new Agriculture Commissioner. now established is both looking at what can be done to help farmers to try to cope with the disease and getting Mr. Moore: Previously the Secretary of State has on with doing effective things to try to tackle it. I have acknowledged the difficulties facing hill farmers in my approved all the recommendations that the TB eradication constituency and elsewhere in the UK, which have not group produced recently. The House will be aware that been eased by the implementation of sheep identification our TB eradication plan has now been approved by the tags. Those farmers are deeply alarmed by the DEFRA European Union and funding has been given to us to vision for the future of agriculture. In the context of the help implement it. recent Calman commission recommendations that Scottish Mr. Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): and other devolved Administrations should have a serious When does the Secretary of State expect the TB eradication input into UK policy making, will he give a pledge that group to report back with its final recommendations, Scottish concerns will be heard before a final British and will those recommendations be acted on? position is taken on CAP reform? Hilary Benn: It is a matter for the TB eradication Jim Fitzpatrick: I can certainly give that assurance. group to report as it sees fit. Its first report, as I just We would in no way move forward without consulting indicated, has been received, and I accepted all its all the relevant authorities and organisations. We clearly recommendations. The fact that we are working in have our own priorities and negotiating position, which partnership now to try to deal with this devastating will be mapped out in due course, and they would not disease is a big step forward compared with where we ignore such an important sector as the hon. Gentleman were before. mentions. Mr. Williams: I thank the Secretary of State for that, Paddy Tipping (Sherwood) (Lab): Will the Minister but can I ask whether he has received any as yet unpublished continue to press for a switch in the CAP from a subsidy reports that would help the TB eradication group develop on production to measures that benefit the countryside, better policies that would assist in reducing the levels of such as investment in jobs and industry, an enhanced TB in cattle and in badgers? If there are any unpublished environment and greater access? These are public goods reports, can he make them available to the House? and public money, and we ought to be pursuing them. Hilary Benn: I do not know to which unpublished Jim Fitzpatrick: My hon. Friend makes an important reports the hon. Gentleman refers. If he is talking about point. We certainly wish to foster an internationally scientific research, that has to go through a peer review competitive industry without reliance on subsidy or process and be published. One of the things that the protection. The Government believe that CAP expenditure eradication group is doing is keeping a close eye on under pillar two offers better value for money than unfolding scientific information—that is part of its pillar one because it rewards farmers for the delivery of remit and it referred to that in the report that was public benefits, especially environmental outcomes, as recently put out. he outlines. 429 Oral Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Oral Answers 430

Nick Herbert (Arundel and South Downs) (Con): Mr. Michael Jack (Fylde) (Con): Has the Secretary The Commission’s draft reformed CAP is reported to of State come to a conclusion about what he will do include a third pillar on climate change. Farming must when the injectable vaccine is trialled and diseased play its part in reducing carbon emissions, but does the animals are found? Will they be euthanased? Minister agree that Lord Stern’s call for people to give up eating meat was totally irresponsible and damaging Hilary Benn: As I have indicated to the right hon. to our livestock industry? Gentleman previously, there is no simple cage-side test that can be used—[Interruption.] With respect, no test Jim Fitzpatrick: It is certainly my belief that that is is reliable enough to indicate whether a badger is infected not quite what Lord Stern said. He made a comment with tuberculosis. However, as I also said to him previously, that was lifted out and exaggerated. We certainly believe if someone is of the view that an animal is in such in a balanced diet, and there are many ways in which distress that it would be a kindness to put it down, the emissions of greenhouse gases can be tackled. That is law provides for that. However, that person would have not the position of the Government or the Department, to be satisfied that the animal was in such a condition. and we will negotiate with the Commission to ensure that its position is as close to ours as possible. Light Pollution Nick Herbert: Lord Stern said—and I quote directly from his interview: 7. Lembit Öpik (Montgomeryshire) (LD): What “Meat is…wasteful… A vegetarian diet is better.” recent representations he has received on regulation of Britain’s livestock producers are listening carefully to light pollution; and if he will make a statement. the Government’s answer. Does the Minister agree with [296306] those comments or not? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Jim Fitzpatrick: It is for individual citizens and consumers Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Dan Norris): DEFRA to decide what they eat, and we support that. We also has received two recent representations, one about current support the British agricultural industry and our meat legislation to tackle light nuisance, the other about producers. Sir Nicholas Stern’s comments must be looked future proposals to address light pollution. at from the perspective of the whole piece that he wrote, not just one quote or sentence. Lembit Öpik: Despite responding positively to the Science and Technology Committee’s 2003 report, the Bovine Tuberculosis Minister’s Department and the Department of Communities and Local Government have yet to provide 6. Ann Winterton (Congleton) (Con): What recent a draft annexe to planning policy statement 23 to make steps his Department has taken to reduce the incidence local planning authorities take light pollution as seriously of bovine tuberculosis. [296305] as other types of pollution. When will guidance be published so that all local authorities can ensure that The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and light pollution is prevented or minimised? Rural Affairs (Hilary Benn): Since November 2008, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Dan Norris: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his has worked alongside the farming industry and veterinary question. DEFRA is no longer involved in the light profession as part of the bovine TB eradication group pollution aspect of the DCLG’s PPS23. The DCLG is for England. On 8 October, the group published a now the lead Department on that, and that work is on progress report including a number of recommendations hold pending its decisions on planning policy reform. now being implemented. We are pursuing the future use However, I am in regular contact with my ministerial of vaccination through vaccine research and development colleagues in DCLG on issues such as rural housing, of a badger vaccine deployment project, alongside our and will raise the matter with them when I next have the current control measures. opportunity, which I anticipate being next week, and I Ann Winterton: Far too many good dairy cows have will ensure that the annexe about which he is concerned been put down in my constituency of Congleton in is published as soon as possible. Cheshire and elsewhere. While I welcome the progress made by the bovine TB eradication group, will the Mr. Brian Jenkins (Tamworth) (Lab): I recognise that Secretary of State accept that veterinary surgeons who the Minister might be the wrong person to ask, given are members of the British Veterinary Association and that this matter is no longer his responsibility, but has the British Cattle Veterinary Association believe that he any model or trial ever been produced with regard to should reassess his criteria for targeting and culling highway or local authority lighting on which we can badgers in certain circumstances? call? Hilary Benn: I am well aware that, as the hon. Lady Dan Norris: As I mentioned, we are not the lead points out, others take a view different from the judgment Department on this matter. However, I shall take my that I formed and reported to the House last year. For hon. Friend’s point away with me and ensure that it is me, the overwhelming requirement has been to take raised with the respective Minister next week. action that will be effective in dealing with the disease. As I indicated earlier, I understand completely, having Mr. Peter Atkinson (Hexham) (Con): When the Minister talked to many, many farmers, how devastating the meets his colleagues in the Department for Children, disease is, but we have to do things that will work in the Schools and Families, will he remind them of a report circumstances. I had to have regard to the scientific produced by the then Department of the Environment advice given to me on the basis of having tried culling. called “Lighting in the Countryside: Towards Good 431 Oral Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Oral Answers 432

Practice”. That was published 12 years ago and highlighted Mr. Cunningham: I thank my hon. Friend for that the danger of poorly planned lighting schemes in rural answer. Has he had any discussions with the new Japanese communities and market towns. Since then, very little Government regarding the Japanese attitude towards has happened. As an MP who represents a constituency whales? that contains some of the darkest areas in England, the matter is hugely important to me and my constituents. Huw Irranca-Davies: On 20 October, British officials met the Japanese Government and expressed continued Dan Norris: I give an absolute assurance that I will do concern about Japanese dolphin hunts, among other that. things. I wrote personally to the Japanese Fisheries Minister last week on a range of issues, including Mr. David Chaytor (Bury, North) (Lab): One of the whaling, and expressed the British public’s concern difficulties is the close relationship between quality of about the hunting of dolphins, urging Japan to prohibit street lighting and levels of crime, which the Conservative the killing and capture of dolphins and other small council in Bury recently discovered to its cost when it cetaceans. We also welcome the reports that Taiji in planned to switch off the street lights in the middle of Japan, which is at the centre of “The Cove”—the file the night. When my hon. Friend speaks to his colleagues and the film—is trialling a no-kill bottlenose dolphin in the Department for Children, Schools and Families, policy. will he ask them to look at the experiment currently taking place in Toulouse in south-west France with UK Fishing Industry motion-sensitive street lights? Might that not be a model for the United Kingdom to follow? 9. John Robertson (Glasgow, North-West) (Lab): What steps he plans to take in negotiations in the Dan Norris: I certainly agree with my hon. Friend Council of Ministers to safeguard the interests of the that safety has to be taken seriously when considering UK fishing industry; and if he will make a statement. switching off any lighting. However, that does not mean [296308] that lights should not be switched off in some situations. I am interested in the Toulouse experience, and I am The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for sure that technology will provide the answer to those Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Huw Irranca-Davies): challenges in the future. My approach to the current negotiations will reflect agreements reached with ministerial colleagues in Scotland, Robert Key (Salisbury) (Con): When the Select Wales and Northern Ireland, and with the UK industry Committee on Science and Technology, of which I was and other key stakeholders on a balance of appropriate a member, recommended in 2003 that light pollution be priorities. Those will seek to ensure the long-term covered by statutory provisions in legislation, the sustainability of the stocks in question, while maintaining Government agreed. However, local authorities, which the future viability of the UK fleet. regard light pollution as seriously as water or air pollution, can do nothing until the Government, through whichever John Robertson: I thank my hon. Friend for his Department, produce their planning policy statement. answer, but I am sure that he will agree that haggling When will that happen? into the early hours of the morning at the December Council is not desirable. What will he do to ensure that Dan Norris: I hope that it happens soon; indeed, that the common fisheries policy is changed to the benefit of is my understanding. However, I say to the hon. Gentleman Scottish fishermen and UK fishermen as a whole? strongly that the issue is about safety as well as saving the environment, and there is no easy answer to that. Huw Irranca-Davies: My hon. Friend raises a vital Councils that have considered the issue seriously have point. We need to get away from this haggling until 3 in often pulled out. I hope that he will recognise that there the morning in late December. We need to change the are many shades of grey in this complex issue. We need CFP, as we made clear in the May and June Councils, to get it right and allow local authorities to do the same. where we led from the front. We need to reform the CFP on the basis of good, long-term science, sustainable fish stocks, regionalisation and the long-term viability of all International Whaling Commission parts of the UK fleet, and away from micro-management, bringing the marine environment and fisheries together. 8. Mr. Jim Cunningham (Coventry, South) (Lab): I am pleased to say that we in this Labour Government What his most recent assessment is of progress made are right at the forefront of driving that radical change. by the small working group on the future of the International Whaling Commission. [296307] Bill Wiggin (Leominster) (Con): Is the Minister aware of how disconnected inshore fishermen feel from discussions The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for with his Department? Now that he is, what does he Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Huw Irranca-Davies): intend to do about putting that right? At the IWC’s 2009 annual meeting, which I attended, it was agreed that the small working group would continue Huw Irranca-Davies: I would counter that. I am work on the future of the IWC for another year. The aware of a perception in certain parts of the fleet and in support group, of which the UK is not a member, certain harbours, where it is widely reported that there appointed to assist the small working group was unable is a perception of being disconnected. The reality is that to complete discussions on possible reform packages in we have set up the sustainable access to inshore fisheries— October, but we hope to complete discussions before SAIF—project, and we have a ministerial quadrilateral the small working group in March next year. group on quota reform, in which we are engaged and 433 Oral Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Oral Answers 434 reaching out to others. In all aspects of our work—including Jim Fitzpatrick: I suspect that it is because the retailers CFP reform, the recent launch of which by the Secretary think that people will buy it. of State was attended by under-10 metre and over-10 metre producer organisations—we will always reach out to Mr. Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): One of the problems the under-10 metre sector. It is a vital part of our with milk is that the supermarkets often sell it below communities and our economy. cost price, which puts huge pressure on the producers. Will the Minister press his colleagues at the Department Mr. Nigel Dodds (Belfast, North) (DUP): The fishing for Business, Innovation and Skills to look into this as industry in Northern Ireland is almost wholly reliant on part of the remit of an ombudsman, if they come prawn, and there is a proposal for a 30 per cent. cut in forward with such a proposal? prawn fishing. Coming on top of further cuts in days at sea and cod quotas, that will have a devastating effect Jim Fitzpatrick: The Dairy Supply Chain Forum on the Northern Ireland fishing industry, which is already regularly looks at these issues, providing an opportunity in a perilous state. Can the Minister assure us that he for all sides of the dairy sector to come together. These will take on board the very difficult situation in Northern matters are discussed there. The Competition Commission’s Ireland in his discussions in Brussels? recommendations are being discussed between Government Departments, and I know that this is a key aspect of Huw Irranca-Davies: Yes, I can indeed. I give the hon. those discussions. We will be announcing our conclusions Gentleman a categorical assurance that we are continuing in due course. to have close discussions with Northern Ireland stakeholders, Ministers and colleagues. Northern Ireland Ministers play a vital part in our negotiating team as Bees (Pesticides) well. I was also pleased recently to meet skippers in Portavogie. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that, as we 11. David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/ determine the package of UK priorities, Northern Ireland Co-op): What recent representations he has received on will feature strongly in it. the effect of pesticides on bees and other pollinators; and if he will make a statement. [296310] Milk and Dairy Industry The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for 10. Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Dan Norris): My What recent assessment he has made of the economic Department has received a number of representations prospects of the milk and dairy industry. [296309] from Members of Parliament and members of the public concerned about the effect of pesticides on bees The Minister of State, Department for Environment, and other pollinators. Food and Rural Affairs (Jim Fitzpatrick): We closely monitor the economic prospects of the sector, with an David Taylor: An American scientific report on extensive review made on a six-monthly basis. I am also Syngenta’s neonicotinoid pesticide, thiamexotham, shows chairing the twice-yearly meeting of the Dairy Supply that it is deadly to honey bees. Does the Minister think Chain Forum on 1 December. The forum regularly that the Warwick university research into bee and pollinator brings together all the key players in the dairy sector morbidity, which is being funded by Syngenta, will have and has been doing so for several years. sufficiently wide terms of reference to assess any links that exist between neonicotinoids and the collapse of Sir Nicholas Winterton: The Minister will know that UK bee colonies? the UK dairy industry accounts for around 18 per cent. of UK agricultural production by value, is the single largest agricultural sector and is worth £3.5 billion. It is Dan Norris: The Government take the health of essential to this country, and to my constituency. What Britain’s bees very seriously and have pumped an extra assessment has he made of the European Union’s proposal £4.3 million into bee health. There is no evidence that to set up a fund for dairy producers, aimed at assisting authorised pesticides pose an unacceptable risk. However, farmers under pressure from unacceptably low and I understand why my hon. Friend asks his question: unfair prices? where somebody is paying, one questions whether the research will be reflective of scientific rigour or not. We Jim Fitzpatrick: Only last week at the Agriculture will, of course, consider all the research, including that Council, we raised our serious concerns about the fund commissioned by pesticide companies, into this important that has been set up, which I am sure would meet the issue, but we will also ensure that the highest possible hon. Gentleman’s concerns as well. We have been asking standards are maintained. I would also quickly say— questions, and I also gave evidence on this item yesterday to the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Select Mr. Speaker: Order. I think that we have probably got Committee, chaired by the right hon. Member for Fylde the gist of the Minister’s answer, for which we are (Mr. Jack). It is not clear how the ¤280 million is going grateful. May I gently say to him that he must address to be separated and broken down, or what the criteria the House and try to look in the direction of the Chair? are for claiming it. We have concerns about that and we are monitoring the situation closely at ministerial and Christopher Fraser (South-West Norfolk) (Con): Given official level. the international aspects and origin of some of the diseases that affect our bees, how much contact has the Mr. Patrick McLoughlin (West Derbyshire) (Con): Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Why does the Minister think that bottles of mineral or the National Bee Unit had with our counterparts water sell for more than bottles of milk? abroad? 435 Oral Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Oral Answers 436

Dan Norris: We are in constant liaison and discussions area, reflecting the importance of partnership in working with a whole range of people on the serious issue of bee to achieve our shared goals of getting the best from our health. It appears that there is no one cause, so we are waterways. looking very carefully at all the possible explanations, which obviously means that we need clear communications Joan Walley: In anticipation of the representations with a range of people here and abroad. that the Minister will receive from the Burslem port project, may I welcome the investment in canals? However, Farm-gate Milk Prices will he give his active support in that partnership working to the plans to bring the arm of the Trent and Mersey 12. Natascha Engel (North-East Derbyshire) (Lab): canal back into use at Burslem port? We want to see the What recent discussions he has had with dairy farmers volunteer scheme, which is about to clear the site, on farm-gate prices for milk. [296311] matched by a firm commitment from British Waterways to find a way of getting a realistic and feasible business The Minister of State, Department for Environment, package for it. Food and Rural Affairs (Jim Fitzpatrick): I have regular discussions with the National Farmers Union, as well Huw Irranca-Davies: I am very happy to pay tribute as dairy farmers, about this and a range of other issues. to my hon. Friend’s sterling role in advocating the I found that the dairy and livestock show in September canals that are so important to her area. In fact, I would provided me with a good opportunity to meet dairy be more than happy to meet her to discuss the issue farmers and hear first hand about the challenges they further. Ultimately, it is a question of British Waterways are facing. and its partners getting on with the business on the ground, identifying the priorities and driving them forward. Natascha Engel: I thank my hon. Friend for that I would welcome the opportunity to discuss this further answer, but I would like to press him a little on the with my hon. Friend. European emergency milk fund, which was mentioned earlier. If the problems that were mentioned are ironed Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con): Is the Minister out, would he in principle do something to support aware that studies have shown that the existence of dairy farmers here, who are really struggling to survive? canals can increase economic activity by some 300 per cent. in the areas they serve? What help can he give to Jim Fitzpatrick: Once the arrangements for the the Litchfield and Hatherton canal restoration trust, distribution of the ¤280 million are worked out, we which will provide the much-needed link between canals would obviously want to ensure that our dairy farmers in the east and the centre parts of the west midlands? are not disadvantaged by the price and the cost of supporting farmers on the continent. Huw Irranca-Davies: The hon. Gentleman has raised a valid point. Through our work with British Waterways, Mr. Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): the Broads Authority, the inlands waterways authorities The British herd of dairy cows is down by more than a and others we have made it clear that we recognise the fifth since 1997, and the number of dairy farms has wider public benefits of canals, not just in terms of halved since 2000. Will the Minister explain why dairy recreational boating but, for instance, of health, education farmers should believe that this Government remain and awareness of nature. Again, I do not want to committed to UK production? interfere in individual projects—it is important for them to take place on the ground—but I am always happy to Jim Fitzpatrick: By virtue, I hope, of our performance meet Members who feel passionate about their own and, in particular, of our negotiating stance in Europe, areas. which is about defending the British dairy industry; and by virtue of the contact and connections, and the support Charlotte Atkins (Staffordshire, Moorlands) (Lab): and advice that we give, here in the UK. The Dairy Does the Minister share my concern about the fact that Supply Chain Forum, which I chair, is another indication Rudyard Sailability and its centre of excellence for that we are doing what we can to support our industry. disabled sailors at Rudyard lake is still being blocked Our industry has innovated and it is rationalised; it is in from building the boat store that is essential to its a better position than that of our European counterparts. survival, despite its victory in a public inquiry nine We hope that it goes from strength to strength, and we months ago? Will he urge British Waterways, which will do all we can to support that. owns Rudyard lake, to promote talks to save a vital charity that transforms the lives of so many people and British Waterways their families?

13. Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent, North) (Lab): What Huw Irranca-Davies: I am grateful for the work that recent representations he has received on the activities my hon. Friend does as a trustee of RYA Sailability, of British Waterways in the Stoke-on-Trent area. and we have corresponded on the issue she has raised. [296312] The organisation does sterling work in encouraging people of all abilities to participate in sailing activities. I The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for understand that the matter is currently being discussed Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Huw Irranca-Davies): by the parties involved, and I hope that it will be No recent representations have been received on the resolved speedily. I gather that a local British Waterways activities of British Waterways in the Stoke-on-Trent manager is still helping to broker a solution and will area. However, I understand that British Waterways, keep my hon. Friend fully informed of the state of the the local regional development agency and other partners negotiations, but I am happy to discuss the matter are working together on a variety of projects in the further with her. 437 Oral Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Oral Answers 438

Flood Defences before last, following the announcement made at the Labour party conference. There has been a very good 14. Dr. Evan Harris (Oxford, West and Abingdon) response. We will introduce a concessionary scheme, (LD): What resources are planned to be made available subject to legislative opportunities and also to guidance. for the provision of flood defences in (a) west Oxford I think it important for us to get the details right, so that and (b) Abingdon. [296314] the right organisations benefit from the scheme. It will not be a simple top-down approach; we will be asking The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and people for their thoughts as well. Rural Affairs (Hilary Benn): As well as continuing its annual programme of maintenance for the main rivers T4. [296328] Jane Kennedy (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab): in Oxford, West and Abingdon to manage flood risk, May I ask my hon. Friend the Minister to reinforce the Environment Agency is nearing the completion of a what he said in the earlier part of Question Time by £1.8 million programme of short-term measures for gently saying to Lord Stern that, during British sausage Oxford, and is developing the long-term Oxford flood week, we celebrate a varied diet and the value that it risk management strategy, which is currently out for brings; that it should be a question of “all things in consultation. A study on the River Stert in Abingdon is moderation”; and that if it is being suggested that also taking place to identify options to alleviate flooding. vegetarianism will save the world, I am not sure that it is a world in which I want to live? Dr. Harris: As the Secretary of State will know, both west Oxford and Abingdon were badly affected. My Hon. Members: Hear, hear. constituents appreciated his visit during the floods, and I recognise the work that has been done, but will he The Minister of State, Department for Environment, agree to meet members of the flood action group and Food and Rural Affairs (Jim Fitzpatrick): Iamhappyto me, with the Environment Agency, so that those people accept the prompts of my right hon. Friend and to can be reassured that progress will be made before the ensure that we communicate her comments and our next flood—which will happen? view—which is clearly the view of the House—to Sir Nicholas Stern. Hilary Benn: I should be very happy to meet the hon. One of the things that I ought to have mentioned Gentleman and his group. earlier is that dealing with the waste of 30 to 40 per Topical Questions cent. of all the food that we buy from supermarkets is a far more crucial way of dealing with the problem of T1. [296325] Paul Rowen (Rochdale) (LD): If he will emissions. We should be focusing on that. make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. Nick Herbert (Arundel and South Downs) (Con): The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and The reason why the Secretary of State has suddenly Rural Affairs (Hilary Benn): I wish to inform the House announced another data loss by the Government is that that following routine inventory checks earlier this year, Farmers Weekly obtained the information and will report 38 Rural Payments Agency data back-up tapes and one it tomorrow. If the loss was discovered earlier this year compact disc were unaccounted for. Thirty-five have and an investigation done, as the Secretary of State now been accounted for. Of the rest, one tape and the said, why have the public not been told until now? This CD did not contain personal protected data, but the looks like a cover-up. Will he accept responsibility for two remaining tapes potentially contained partial data another foul-up by the Rural Payments Agency, which in code. However, tapes of this sort can only be read has already cost taxpayers £70 million in EU fines with specialist equipment and detailed technical knowledge. because of its bungling? Furthermore, one of the two tapes was known to be faulty and had been reported as such, since it could not Hilary Benn: I of course accept responsibility. I was be read. informed yesterday and I thought it important to take I want to reassure farmers that there is no evidence the first possible opportunity to inform the House, that the tapes are in the public domain, that a forensic which is what I have done this morning. In accordance investigation was carried out in accordance with Cabinet with Cabinet Office guidelines, a full investigation was Office guidelines, and that officials concluded that there done. As the data were in code that cannot be read, as I was only a low risk that any usable personal data had have indicated, a judgment was made in accordance been lost. I will arrange for further information, including with Cabinet Office guidelines that Ministers need not a copy of the investigation report, to be placed in the be informed. I wanted to reassure farmers today that Library of the House. the risk of this information getting out is very low, for the reason I have explained to the House at the first Paul Rowen: At the Labour party conference, the available opportunity. Government announced that exemptions from the so-called rain tax would be introduced. Can the Minister confirm Dr. Brian Iddon (Bolton, South-East) (Lab): The that they will involve all charities, and can he tell us announcement about what the Scout Association called when he expects them to be introduced? the rain tax was very welcome, especially in the north-west. However, in applying discretionary relief, will my hon. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Friend take note of the plight of all political clubs? If Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Huw Irranca-Davies): the scheme is applied to such clubs, as originally intended, I am pleased to be able to update the hon. Gentleman it might result in further closures. I do, of course, on discussions that we had as recently as the week declare an interest in this question. 439 Oral Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Oral Answers 440

Huw Irranca-Davies: First, I cannot guarantee anything strongly support the existing legislative ban on hunting at this moment. The Government are committed to with dogs? Does he intend to review the legislation in bringing forward proposals on a discretionary scheme light of the survey? at the first available legislative opportunity, and that has been widely welcomed. I would not want to go into Hilary Benn: I have indeed seen the information to detail but I am glad that we have support for this right which my hon. Friend refers, and it shows where public across the House. We will need to go into detail about sentiment and opinion lie. In the light of that, I find it who is and is not included, but it is important to very hard to understand why Opposition Members acknowledge that this is a cost-neutral issue and, as want to change the law so that foxes can once again be such, the cost must fall on someone, somewhere—whether ripped to pieces by hounds, because that is the change that is businesses, individual households or others. in the law they appear to be seeking.

T6. [296330] Mr. John Baron (Billericay) (Con): May I T2. [296326] Mr. Michael Jack (Fylde) (Con): Pursuant press the Secretary of State on the Rural Payments to the Secretary of State’s opening comments, the Agency? He will know that it has taken far too long to National Audit Office has issued a second damning resolve a number of late payments under the single report into the Rural Payments Agency, which it said payment scheme. Many farmers throughout the had scant regard for protecting public money and had country are suffering as a result, including my too high a cost base. When will someone at ministerial constituent Mr. Peter Philpot. I urge the Secretary of and senior official level take responsibility for this State to press forward with the reforms and get these shambolic organisation, get to grips with it and publish payments sorted out now, for the sake not only of my a report about what its future holds? constituent but of farmers throughout the country. Hilary Benn: I take responsibility; that is my job. As Hilary Benn: I would be very happy if the hon. the right hon. Gentleman will know, the history of the Gentleman gave me the details of his constituent, in RPA is not a happy one. Since I took up this position, order to pursue that case. It is precisely for this reason the one thing I have made clear to the Department and that we announced in September a review of the RPA, to the RPA is that the agency must maintain the so we can learn the lessons and improve the service to improvement it has achieved—we should acknowledge the level that farmers have a right to expect. that—in getting payments to farmers more speedily, given the unhappy past. I am not prepared to do Charlotte Atkins (Staffordshire, Moorlands) (Lab): anything that gets in the way of doing that, because Could the Secretary of State give the House an update what farmers want is to get the payments as quickly as on the implementation of the ban on hunting with dogs, possible. There have been previous occasions on which and particularly on the impact on rural employment? the House has invited me to do things in relation to the RPA, but I am not prepared to put in jeopardy that Hilary Benn: I am not aware of a study having been progress from what was a mess. done on that. We should be aware, however, that when the ban was voted on a lot of predictions were made about the consequences that would flow, but they have Paul Flynn (Newport, West) (Lab): Should there not not flowed, which is why I do not agree with those who be a virement of farm subsidies from farmers whose say the legislation is flawed. The onus is on those who income has increased to those whose income has not, want to revisit it to explain why they want to return to a especially as the income of grain farmers doubled between practice that most people do not approve of, as is shown 2006 and 2008? by the evidence that my hon. Friend the Member for North-West Leicestershire (David Taylor) has just drawn Hilary Benn: There is no mechanism I can think of to the House’s attention. that would enable that to take place. Different parts of the farming industry are in different positions, and the T7. [296331] David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con): I latest information on farm business income will be want to know about the impact of swine flu on farmers published shortly. in my community. Does the Secretary of State have any evidence that there has been a disproportionate impact T3. [296327] Mr. Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) on those who work on the land? (Con): A constituent of mine is a breeder of Alpacas. Have the Government looked into the spreading of Hilary Benn: I am not aware of there having been bovine TB to alpacas? Is there an appropriate test to such a disproportionate impact, but if there is any ascertain whether that is happening and, if so, is there available information on that I shall find it and write to an appropriate compensation scheme? the hon. Gentleman. Paddy Tipping (Sherwood) (Lab): Sixty years have Jim Fitzpatrick: The question of alpacas and TB is passed since the introduction of national parks by a investigated by the Department. There are arrangements Labour Government. What more is the Secretary of and tests in place, and I am happy to write in detail to State going to do to promote access to the countryside? the hon. Gentleman about the procedures. Huw Irranca-Davies: Indeed, and in this 60th year it David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): is right that we look to the future of the national parks. Has the Secretary of State seen the League Against That is why we are working very hard with the national Cruel Sports large-scale survey indicating that 62 per parks authorities and other agencies to look forward cent. of Conservative voters, 77 per cent. of Liberal and shape a vision for the future. I suspect that that Democrat voters and 83 per cent. of Labour voters vision will be concerned with access, sustainable ways of 441 Oral Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Oral Answers 442 living, living and breathing communities and climate (Mr. Jack) was told two days ago. What is the Secretary change. The national parks have a critical role to play in of State going to do to ensure that he is told about the future of this country, and re-imagining what the things for which he is responsible, given the seriousness next 60 years will be like is part of the current review. of this matter?

T8. [296332] Ann Winterton (Congleton) (Con): Is the Hilary Benn: Any potential loss of data is of course a Minister aware of the risk, if changes are made to the very serious matter, which is why I wished to report to United Kingdom pet travel scheme—it might be the House at the very earliest opportunity. As I have extended in 2011—of introducing from the European indicated, I will provide further information, including Union to the United Kingdom a parasite called a copy of the report on the investigation that took echinococcosis? An EU-wide risk assessment, followed place. I hope that that will offer some reassurance, by a prevention, reduction and control strategy, should because I say to the House—I do take this seriously—that be introduced before risking both animal and human when one looks at the form in which the data would be health in the United Kingdom. seen by someone who does not have technical knowledge and special equipment, one finds that they would be unreadable. That is why it is important to take this Jim Fitzpatrick: The hon. Lady rightly raises this opportunity to reassure farmers about the steps we have concern about any reduction in the protection and taken and the low risk of any data getting out. safeguards against infection from other countries. That is uppermost in the Government’s mind. As she has Greg Mulholland (Leeds, North-West) (LD): Is the outlined, we are in discussions with the Commission Secretary of State aware of the Campaign to Protect about extending our derogation for an extra 12 months, Rural England’s “Mapping local food webs” project, and these matters are under very close scrutiny. which is operating in about 20 locations, including Otley, and is linking local producers, shops and markets? T9. [296333] Mr. Colin Breed (South-East Cornwall) As his constituency is nearby, will he visit those local (LD): The Secretary of State will be aware that the new producers, shops and markets in Otley to see this fantastic grocery suppliers code will cover the relationships scheme working? between suppliers and the supermarkets and first-tier suppliers. What conversations has he had with his Hilary Benn: I am always happy to receive an invitation counterparts in the Department for Business, from the hon. Gentleman, who is my constituency Innovation and Skills to ensure that the ombudsman’s neighbour. This is an excellent project, because we need remit and the code can be extended so that farmers will to link people to opportunities to grow their own food not be subjected to excessive cost and risk? and to supply it to others locally—it is good for our health and good for the climate. Jim Fitzpatrick: As I outlined in one of my earlier Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con): Is the Secretary answers, the Department convenes a number of forums of State aware that, four years after the Buncefield to allow farmers to engage directly with DEFRA and explosions in my constituency, the environment and others to discuss these very issues. As I have also said, agriculture around the site remain heavily contaminated, the Government are considering the question of the particularly with perfluorooctane sulfonate—PFOS? Will ombudsman, and discussions between Departments should he meet me and a delegation of my constituents to reach a conclusion shortly. discuss their concerns about PFOS contamination? T10. [296334] Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby) (Con): As Jim Fitzpatrick: I remember when the events at Buncefield a farmer, I have dealings with the Rural Payments happened. The hon. Gentleman and I had a number of Agency, and I am well aware of its difficulties. May I meetings about tackling the fire, as we are both ex-firemen take the Secretary of State back to the loss of data? He and I was the Minister with responsibility for dealing has honourably and quite properly accepted with fire. As Minister of State in DEFRA, I will be very responsibility, yet he was not told about this happy to meet him and whomever he wishes to bring matter—my right hon. Friend the Member for Fylde with him to discuss this important issue. 443 29 OCTOBER 2009 Business of the House 444

Business of the House next Wednesday? Will she confirm that there will be an oral statement on the Kelly report and will she tell us whether she or the Prime Minister will be making it? It 11.32 am is a matter of great regret that whole sections of the Sir George Young (North-West Hampshire) (Con): report were leaked to the newspapers yesterday—[HON. May I ask the Leader of the House to give us the MEMBERS: “Hear, hear.”] Will she reassure us that when business for next week? it comes to the real Kelly report, the House will be the first to know and not the last to find out? Will she clarify the confusion caused by the Justice Secretary’s The Leader of the House of Commons (Ms Harriet statement last June that any recommendations would be Harman): The business for the week commencing “subject to approval by this House”—[Official Report,29June 2 November will be: 2009; Vol. 495, c. 51.] MONDAY 2NOVEMBER—Remaining stages of the and the No. 10 briefing yesterday that MPs would not Perpetuities and Accumulations Bill [Lords], followed be given a vote on Kelly? by a general debate on tackling antisocial behaviour. Last week, the right hon. and learned Lady was TUESDAY 3NOVEMBER—Consideration in Committee unable to give me the date of the spring recess. As if of the Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill there was not already enough mystery surrounding (day 1). Easter, the Government are now intensifying it. When WEDNESDAY 4NOVEMBER—Further consideration in can she give us the date of the Easter recess and when Committee of the Constitutional Reform and Governance can she give us the date of the crucial pre-Budget Bill (day 2). report? THURSDAY 5NOVEMBER—General debate on climate May we have an urgent update from the business change: preparation for the climate change conference Minister on Royal Mail? We are now in week two of at Copenhagen. crippling strikes, with small businesses being hit particularly hard, but there is no sign of anyone in the Government The provisional business for the week commencing showing any leadership. The Prime Minister appears to 9 November will include: have given up and the normally ubiquitous Lord Mandelson MONDAY 9NOVEMBER—Consideration of Lords has disappeared. amendments to the Coroners and Justice Bill, followed May we have a statement from the right hon. and by, if necessary, consideration of Lords amendments. learned Lady on the Government’s consistent sidelining TUESDAY 10 NOVEMBER—If necessary, consideration of Parliament? Yesterday my hon. Friend the Member of Lords amendments, followed by consideration of for Meriden (Mrs. Spelman) raised on a point of order Lords amendments to the Welfare Reform Bill, followed the fact that the Secretary of State for Communities by consideration of Lords amendments to the Health and Local Government had failed to make a written Bill [Lords], followed by, if necessary, consideration of statement that was directly relevant to the debate that Lords amendments. was scheduled for that very afternoon. The week before, WEDNESDAY 11 NOVEMBER—Consideration of Lords the Defence Secretary published 300 pages of the Gray amendments to the Apprenticeships, Skills, Children report within two hours of a debate on procurement. and Learning Bill, followed by, if necessary, consideration As you made clear on both occasions, Mr. Speaker, that of Lords amendments. was a discourteous way to treat the House. What is the right hon. and learned Lady doing to convey that Colleagues will wish to be reminded that the House message to her colleagues? will meet at 2.30 pm on that day. Next week, my colleagues might wish to pursue the THURSDAY 12 NOVEMBER—Consideration of Lords issue that we have just discovered, namely the serious amendments to the Policing and Crime Bill, followed loss of data by the Rural Payments Agency earlier this by, if necessary, consideration of Lords amendments. year, which only became known in the public domain a The House is expected to prorogue at the end of few moments ago. business on Thursday 12 November. Finally, we learned today the disturbing news that an I should also like to inform the House that the Iranian national working as a political analyst in the business in Westminster Hall for 12 November will be: British embassy in Tehran has been jailed for patently political purposes. May we have an urgent statement THURSDAY 12 NOVEMBER—A debate on the report from the Health Committee on health inequalities. from the Foreign Secretary on what is being done to safeguard employees of British embassies around the world? Sir George Young: I am grateful to the Leader of the House for next week’s business. Will she tell us whether Ms Harman: The right hon. Gentleman asked whether the Prime Minister will be making a statement to the the Prime Minister will make a statement following the House on Monday after this weekend’s meeting of European Council meeting. It is usual for the Prime European leaders? Will he be using it to report progress Minister to make a statement following major European on his preferred candidate for a proposed European conferences and summits. president? As for Sir Christopher Kelly’s report, I, too, deplore On the Kelly report, will she clarify what the Prime the fact that it has been leaked. We have not seen the Minister suggested yesterday, namely that Sir Christopher’s report and do not yet know what he proposes or the report proposed timescale. We recognise that it is not appropriate “will form the basis of a statement to the House”—[Official for this House to set our own allowances—we know Report, 28 October 2009; Vol. 498, c. 285.] that the public do not want us to set or administer our 445 Business of the House29 OCTOBER 2009 Business of the House 446 allowance system. This summer we voted not to do so how we might be kept updated on the postal strike. May anymore when we voted to establish the Independent we also be kept updated on the conflict in Afghanistan? Parliamentary Standards Authority. Future changes to We must never forget that we have troops in the field the allowance system following the Kelly report will in Afghanistan, and that is a matter of importance to therefore be carried out by IPSA. The House will have the House. an opportunity to put forward its views when I make an Finally, I note that, on Thursday 12 November, there oral statement next Wednesday, but there will not be a is no indication of either a topical or a general debate. vote to decide on our allowances system because the May I suggest that, rather than wait around for Prorogation House has already voted that that will no longer be a as we normally do, we use the time profitably? May I matter for us to decide. Decisions on allowances will be repeat my request, therefore, that we have a debate on made by IPSA. the military covenant? It would be particularly appropriate The right hon. Gentleman asked about the date for on 12 November and an opportunity for Members from the pre-Budget report and I will announce it in due all parts to raise issues of importance about not just course. He mentioned the lack of a written statement servicemen and ex-servicemen, but their families. and the complaint made by the hon. Member for Meriden (Mrs. Spelman). Nobody thinks that what happened Ms Harman: I did omit to respond to the point about was acceptable, and the Secretary of State has apologised. Royal Mail, so let me say that we are obviously very On the Gray report, there was an issue about ensuring disappointed that yesterday’s talks did not reach a that that very large report was the subject of an oral resolution that would have averted the strikes; however, statement to the House as quickly as possible. It was a the TUC is willing to continue to facilitate talks, and very large report, however, so, rather than delay the the Government are urging both sides to continue them. statement while colleagues considered the report, the We have been in frequent contact with management and idea was to make the oral statement as quickly as the union, and our message to them has been clear: possible. That situation was different from the one both sides need to work to resolve the differences through raised by the hon. Member for Meriden, which was a dialogue, via ACAS if necessary, so that we can reach a mistake and for which an apology has been made. solution. On the arrest and detention of the British embassy The hon. Gentleman talked about the loss of data by employee in Iran, the Foreign Secretary has deplored the Rural Payments Agency, but that was dealt with in the arrest and asked for an appeal to be heard as soon oral questions to the Secretary of State for Environment, as possible. He regards the situation as totally unacceptable. Food and Rural Affairs, so I do not have anything to add to what my right hon. Friend said. I see no connection Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): May at all between that loss and the collection of bio data on we have a debate on data handling by the Government? the DNA database. Think of all the murders that have We have just had a mini statement from the Secretary of been solved through the use of DNA data, all the State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, informing offenders brought to justice, and all the sexual offenders us that material has been lost from the Rural Payments who went unpunished before DNA evidence was available. Agency. This is hardly the first time that the Government I really think that the Liberal Democrats should get off have lost sensitive material, but meanwhile they continue the fence on this. The collection of DNA is a proportionate to collect, by means of the police forces, material that a measure to ensure that offenders do not go unpunished. court has held to be unlawful—in terms of the DNA Any link between that and the RPA is tenuous. samples of innocent people. May we have a debate on Colleagues will have an opportunity to have their say that issue? on our allowances following my oral statement to the I, too, deplore the fact that Sir Christopher Kelly’s House. Again, the hon. Gentleman should make up his report was partially leaked, but a statement on the mind: does he really think it right that this House report will not be sufficient, because a number of Members should pick over the question of our allowances when from all parts of the House will wish to have their say we have already decided to make that the responsibility on the issue. I accept that there will not be a definitive of an independent authority? He cannot be on both vote, because that power has been given to the independent sides of the argument; he either wants that decision authority, but the House should have the opportunity reached independently, which is what this House has to debate the issue. Will the Leader of the House voted for, or he wants it to be picked over again in the therefore arrange for a debate to take place once the House. The public want a transparent, fair arrangement report has been published? for allowances, and—you know what?—they do not May I return the Leader of the House to the vexed want us to be doing it. I do not think that extended issue of the presidency of the European Union Council? debate, whether followed by a vote or not, helps the There seems to be at least two schools of thought on the situation. president’s exact role: whether it will be “chairmanic”, The hon. Gentleman asked about Europe. We are to use the apparent term, or traffic-stopping. The House very clear on our position on this. I thought that the Lib should have the opportunity to debate what the exact Dems, too, felt that it is important that this country is in role of any such chairman would be, were the Lisbon the mainstream of Europe and that Europe is effective treaty to be finally ratified in all states, and who might in safeguarding the interests of all European countries be a suitable candidate. Members from all parts of the in a globalised economy and in terms of the globalised House have strong feelings about not only who might challenge to tackle climate change and the globalised be a good candidate for that post, but who might not. efforts to ensure security. We want to be at the heart of I do not think that the right hon. and learned Lady Europe and for Europe to be strong on those issues. Of responded to the question from the right hon. Member course, it is in Britain’s interests, if, as we hope, the for North-West Hampshire (Sir George Young) about Lisbon treaty is ratified, that a Briton—Tony Blair—should 447 Business of the House29 OCTOBER 2009 Business of the House 448

[Ms Harman] It is important to recognise that the rate of increase in repossessions is lower than that predicted by the take up the post. [HON.MEMBERS: “Ah!”] That is what Council of Mortgage Lenders, and we want to ensure the Prime Minister said yesterday in Prime Minister’s that we help everyone affected. questions, in case anybody thinks there is anything novel about that. Mark Fisher (Stoke-on-Trent, Central) (Lab): Can The hon. Gentleman asked about Afghanistan. We the Leader of the House tell us whether a bribery Bill constantly have at the forefront of our mind the task of will be included in the Queen’s Speech and receive a our troops, the price that is paid by our troops, and the Second Reading soon afterwards? She will recall that it importance of their work in Afghanistan. Indeed, the was considered in draft in April and received widespread Prime Minister referred to that yesterday. We had a support from all parties. Will she find time for it to be defence debate that covered the military covenant a concluded? couple of weeks ago. As I reported to the House last week, it is very important that we recognise not only the Ms Harman: My hon. Friend will know that it was work that is done by our troops but the support given to included in the Government’s draft legislative programme, them by their families. Part of the military covenant which we published earlier this year. Of course, the also relates not only to our troops, and to veterans, but Queen’s Speech will announce on 18 November which to Army, Air Force and Navy wives. Bills have made it into the legislative programme. Several hon. Members rose— Mr. Michael Fallon (Sevenoaks) (Con): Will there be a follow-up statement on the lessons of the Nimrod Mr. Speaker: Order. Twenty-eight Members are seeking disaster, and how many of the named individuals do the to catch my eye. I am keen to accommodate as many as Government expect to accept responsibility and resign? possible, but I am looking, particularly today, for single, short supplementary questions without preamble, and Ms Harman: The Secretary of State for Defence for brief replies. made a statement to the House yesterday, and there will be Defence questions next week if there are any further Natascha Engel (North-East Derbyshire) (Lab): points that the hon. Gentleman wishes to pursue. Tomorrow is an historic day when you, Mr. Speaker, will preside over debate on these green Benches by the Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): UK Youth Parliament. Will the Leader of the House We are surrounded by leaks, both in the House and grant us a statement or a debate when we can mark this outside, and we will never carry the public with us on historic occasion and perhaps discuss some of the lessons data-sharing issues unless we can demonstrate that we that we will learn? can look after things properly ourselves. May we have an urgent debate in Government time on information Ms Harman: It will be an important occasion. I am assurance? looking forward to participating in it myself, as will hon. Members in all parts of the House, and no doubt Ms Harman: We have had a number of debates over we will be able to report back. recent months in response to particular such issues, and that might possibly be a good topic for an Adjournment Justine Greening (Putney) (Con): My constituent, debate or a debate in Westminster Hall. Mary McKie, is about to be repossessed next week, even though the Treating Customers Fairly regime should Mr. Andrew Mackay (Bracknell) (Con): When my apply to her. Her mortgage debt has been sold to a right hon. Friend the Member for North-West Hampshire company that is totally outside the Financial Services (Sir George Young) quite reasonably asked the Leader Authority’s remit—Webb Resolutions—and even though of the House whether the Prime Minister would make a her mortgage is a third of her property’s value, she is statement about the European summit on Monday, she not being given a chance to sell her home and pay back replied, “That is usual”. Would it not have been better the debt. Can the Leader of the House allow us to have to have said “Yes”, or is the Prime Minister dithering a debate on Treating Customers Fairly so that thousands again? of constituents in a similar position can have their concerns heard? Ms Harman: The custom and practice is that the Leader of the House does not announce on a Thursday Ms Harman: On the general issue of repossessions, the statements for the following week, because they are there will be Treasury questions next week, when it will often subject to change at the last minute. I announce be possible to question the Chancellor and the Treasury the fixed programme of business for the week, and all team about the Treasury’s approach to the protection of that I have done is remind the House what is custom people who lose their job or suffer a fall in their income and practice. The right hon. Gentleman’s point is bogus because a family member loses their job or someone is and spurious, and I cannot see why he bothered to working on short time. make it. As to the hon. Lady’s constituent, I will get back to her when I have worked out which would be the best Geraldine Smith (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Lab): Department to approach to see whether some assistance It is painfully clear to the whole country that the two can be given. We do not want anyone who finds themselves sides in the postal dispute cannot reach agreement. Will in financial difficulties to have to lose their home if the Minister with responsibility for postal services come arrangements can be made for them to defer the payment to the House and explain why he will not instruct Royal of their mortgage interest. We want to ensure that every Mail to go to arbitration so that we can stop the help is given to them. dispute? 449 Business of the House29 OCTOBER 2009 Business of the House 450

Ms Harman: The Minister for Business, Innovation catering and more intensive occupation, with more and Skills made a statement a week or so ago setting people using the building—have resulted in significant out the Government’s position that we want to ensure energy consumption. That is why it now hasaGrating. that further disputes are avoided, as no doubt everybody An estate-wide environmental assessment is under way does, above all in the interests of Royal Mail’s customers and will identify improvement options for the future, but also in the interests of its staff and the organisation and no doubt Green2Go from Stockport ought to feed as a whole. into it. Meanwhile we must all play our part in helping the parliamentary estate to reduce its carbon footprint Mr. James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): Is the Leader by turning off our televisions and ensuring that we do of the House aware that it emerged yesterday in evidence not use heating and air conditioning excessively. to the European Scrutiny Committee that the rules and procedures of the proposed European presidency are Mr. Nigel Dodds (Belfast, North) (DUP): May we being fashioned in secrecy, and that the European Council have a debate on the next steps in the Lisbon treaty proposes to adopt them straight away without the saga? It is clear from Members of all parties that such a opportunity for scrutiny or debate in this House? Might debate would be a matter of great interest, not only in we have some debate at least about the proposed new relation to the EU presidential issue but because it presidency? would allow each party in the House to spell out to the Ms Harman: If indeed the Prime Minister were to British people in advance of a general election where it make a statement next week, the hon. Gentleman could stands on a referendum. The parties could make it clear, raise that point with him, hypothetically. as they go to the people, that there will be a referendum come what may, so that the people of the United Mr. Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Will Kingdom will have their say as promised by the Government my right hon. and learned Friend organise an early and the Opposition. debate on insolvency fees and solicitors’ fees? Many individuals who lose their businesses and homes find Ms Harman: A series of statements about Europe are themselves taken to the cleaners by those fees, which are made by the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary, as high as £400 an hour. and no doubt the hon. Gentleman will shortly find an opportunity to raise that point. Ms Harman: We want to make absolutely sure that we leave no stone unturned as the country and businesses Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) (Lab): The postal face the current difficult economic situation. My hon. workers are back on strike because they are frightened Friend makes an important point, and I will bring it to about job losses, bullying management and the future the attention of Treasury Ministers. It might be one that of a vital public service. It seems extraordinary that he should raise at Treasury questions next week. Ministers do not have more hands-on involvement. Greg Mulholland (Leeds, North-West) (LD): In August, May I repeat the calls made by other Members for a in reply to a letter, the Under-Secretary of State for special debate to be held, as urgently as possible, on the Transport, the hon. Member for Ipswich (Chris Mole), future of the Post Office and the situation facing postal told me that the Government were reneging on the workers? promise of extra rail carriages on busy west Yorkshire lines in favour of electrification between Manchester Ms Harman: Ministers are hands-on, with the intention and Liverpool and between London and Swansea. When of getting the management and the union to agree to will a Minister come to the House and give a statement settle their differences for the sake of the people who to tell the people of Yorkshire about that, and when can use Royal Mail and those who work in it. we finally have a debate on the poor deal that this Government give public transport in Yorkshire? Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Yesterday the Paymaster General confirmed, at column 273 of Ms Harman: The reality is that more passengers and Hansard, that the Government rank ministerial more freight are being carried by train than ever before Departments. The Ministry of Defence is ranked 21st and the trains are more on time than ever before, so I do out of 23. That is unacceptable, especially when we are not accept the hon. Gentleman’s general proposition fighting a war in Afghanistan. I genuinely ask the that the situation on the railways is poor or will be in Leader of the House whether we can have a proper future. That is far from the case, but I will draw his statement on the matter next week, so that we can specific points to the attention of the transport team, question that priority. who will write to him. Ann Coffey (Stockport) (Lab): Portcullis House has a Ms Harman: There are Defence questions on Monday, G rating for energy use, the worst rating that any when the hon. Gentleman will have an opportunity to building can have. May I urge my right hon. and learned raise that matter. Friend to enlist the advice of Green2Go, a company in my constituency that has developed a biofuel based on Mr. Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): I do not waste cooking oil, on how the energy rating of Portcullis know whether the Leader of the House heard the House can be improved? remarkable defence by a Conservative party spokesman on “Today” this morning of Mr. Michal Kaminski, Ms Harman: The G energy rating from 2008 recognised whom the chief rabbi of Poland has condemned for that although the initial design of Portcullis House having been a member of a neo-Nazi party and who received an “excellent”rating under the Building Research whitewashes the massacre of Jews in world war two. Establishment’s environmental assessment method, May we have an early debate on anti-Semitism and the significant changes in function—specifically increased importance of getting the history of world war two and 451 Business of the House29 OCTOBER 2009 Business of the House 452

[Mr. Denis MacShane] Mr. Tom Watson (West Bromwich, East) (Lab): Arts Council England is facing its second major reorganisation the massacres of Jews right, particularly with reference in a decade. A debate would allow us to examine the to MEPs, not just these Poles but those from other scope of that, the number of staff being made redundant countries? We need to get this matter cleared up and the and the number who have been rehired as consultants. Opposition’s shameful alliance exposed to the whole world. Ms Harman: Obviously, we have to ensure, particularly as we look ahead to deficit reduction, that every pound Ms Harman: Every year in this House, we have a of public money is properly spent, and that includes in debate on Holocaust memorial day, which is well attended the arts. The British economy as well as the quality of and passionately supported by hon. Members of all our life in this country is massively enhanced by the arts parties. Not only what we do in this country and in this and the Arts Council’s work. We obviously want to Chamber but how we conduct ourselves internationally ensure that it is not only properly funded but spends all is important. My right hon. Friend is right—no one in its money properly. My hon. Friend can probably raise this country, particularly the Opposition, should consort the matter in Treasury questions. with holocaust deniers, climate change deniers and homophobes. That is not the way that Britain wants Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con): May I to go. again raise Criminal Records Bureau checks with the Leader of the House? They were brought in to protect Mr. Peter Atkinson (Hexham) (Con): The Leader of the innocent and the young, but they are also blighting the House did not answer the question asked by my the lives of innocent people who have malicious accusations right hon. Friend the Member for North-West Hampshire made against them, which remain on record. I have (Sir George Young) about the dates of the Easter recess. several such cases in my constituency. People cannot What is her problem? clear those CRB checks and the law needs to be changed. Maywehaveadebate? Ms Harman: I will announce the future calendar in due course. I have not got any problems, but if I do, I Ms Harman: We all agree that we need a sensible and am sure the hon. Gentleman will be the first to know. proportionate approach, which puts children’s safety first and ensures that the system is manageable. I cannot Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire, North) (Lab): think of an immediate opportunity to raise the matter, May we have a debate on excessive bank charges? My but I will consider whether the Secretary of State for right hon. and learned Friend may be aware of Bank of Children, Schools and Families needs to update the Scotland’s recent announcement that it would raise its House. I know that several developments have taken overdraft charges for current account holders. That place that he might want to report to the House. could mean up to 300 per cent. increases for some people. May I ask her to use the Government’s influence Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): May we have a debate with that bank to get it to reconsider those proposals? on the importance of public expenditure on large infrastructure projects, which create many jobs? For Ms Harman: We recognise that bank overdraft charges instance, the proposed Mersey gateway would create are a source of public frustration in dealing with banks. hundreds of jobs through its construction and around We issued a call this summer in our White Paper for a 4,000 jobs after its construction. speedy resolution to the millions of complaints that have been lodged with the Office of Fair Trading about Ms Harman: The Planning Act 2008 and the opportunity overdraft charges. We expect a court decision soon on for a more streamlined approach to major infrastructure that matter and we are also working on reforms that projects will no doubt help not only my hon. Friend’s will force banks to be much more transparent about constituency but others places around the country. terms and conditions. There will be Treasury questions next week, when my hon. Friend will have an opportunity Mr. Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Given that to raise the matter with Treasury Ministers. the number of annual hospital admissions for alcohol- related injuries has more than doubled in the north of David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con): Has the Leader Northamptonshire to 5,451 in the past six years, may of the House had time to consider the reduction by half we have a debate in Government time on drink-related of the guests’ and Members’ seating in the Terrace violence and the Government’s 24-hour drinking culture? Cafeteria? Does she agree that that is an important facility for Members who bring guests into the House? Ms Harman: I think it was the hon. Gentleman’s Is she aware that there has been no consultation on the suggestion that we have the topical debate on fireworks matter? Does she agree that the seating should be this afternoon, and doubtless he will make a long and restored, and not after Christmas as proposed? interesting speech. I note that he is now making another suggestion, which we will consider alongside others. Ms Harman: There was less usage of the Members’ Misuse of alcohol and alcohol-related injuries are serious part of the cafeteria than of the part for all others matters and I will consider his suggestion. working in the Commons. It was a shame that those working in the House were having their meals in a place David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): that was absolutely packed out when the Members’ part I declare an interest as a member of the Chartered was very underused. In response to that, the idea was to Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy. May we move the partition at a small cost to see whether that led have a debate on better regulation of the accountancy to better usage. The matter will be kept under review, profession? There are egregious examples of firms such but I do not think there is any point in keeping tables as PricewaterhouseCoopers frequently having conflicts and chairs empty. of interest by acting as company adviser, bank adviser 453 Business of the House29 OCTOBER 2009 Business of the House 454 and then administrator. That insolvency gravy train Mr. Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): must be derailed as soon as possible in the interests of Thousands of people replied to the consultation on the all so that we are not in a position whereby the practitioners Badman review of elective home education. Many pointed get the pounds and creditors get the pence. to the lack of evidence and the weakness of the data that underlay his recommendations. May we have a Ms Harman: My hon. Friend has made another debate in Government time on home education so that important point about the way in which insolvencies are Ministers can be informed by it before they introduce handled. It is probably more of a question for the any draft legislation? Department for Business, Innovation and Skills than for the Treasury, although it is obviously a matter for Ms Harman: Again, that is something that could both. I will consider how it perhaps needs to be taken usefully be debated in Westminster Hall or on the forward in the House. Adjournment. Mr. David Chaytor (Bury, North) (Lab): To revert to Christopher Fraser (South-West Norfolk) (Con): Given the European Union, is not the deeper issue not only that recent research by the Prostate Cancer Charter for the relative merits of individual candidates but the fact Action shows great inequalities still existing in the NHS that so many hon. Members still oppose the Lisbon for prostate cancer services, will the Leader of the treaty, and that a considerable minority of hon. Members House find time for a debate in the near future on that oppose Britain’s membership of the EU? Is that not the important issue? most powerful argument for a full debate about our future relationship with the EU, and whether it should Ms Harman: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman might be one of isolation or of full participation? If the consider seeking the opportunity for a debate in Westminster Government are considering any sort of referendum, Hall or on the Adjournment— should it not be on our membership so that those who oppose the consensus of the past third of a century Christopher Fraser: I have done that. have the opportunity to say so?

Ms Harman: In addition, I will ask my right hon. Ms Harman: The Government—the Prime Minister Friend the Secretary of State for Health to consider the and the Foreign Secretary—have made it absolutely matter. There is no doubt that proper awareness of the clear where we believe Britain’s interest lies. Our interests opportunity for screening for prostate cancer and early in terms of the economy, tackling climate change and intervention are important for prevention and treatment. security depend on our working together with our European It is an important issue, on which we can make progress. partners, and not in drawing away from them at precisely the time when international co-operation is absolutely essential. It is also important that we have a strong Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): May I support Europe to work with the United States, China and those who are calling for an urgent debate on the India, so we will be pressing forward for better co-operation situation facing Royal Mail? May I also ask for and working in Europe, and putting Britain at the heart consideration to be given to sub-postmasters and sub- of Europe. postmistresses, who face immense problems at this time? Is it not right that the Government, as the shareholder, Paul Flynn (Newport, West) (Lab): May we debate should examine ways how they can provide support to early-day motion 2180 and the Government’s Sustainable ensure that we do not lose more of those invaluable Development Commission’s conclusion that the cost services? and problems of new nuclear power stations far outweigh any benefits? Ms Harman: We are committed to the post office [That this House notes that on 26 October the network and the important work done by sub-postmasters Government’s Sustainable Development Commission said and sub-postmistresses, and my hon. Friend is right to that they had ‘found the problems of nuclear power far draw attention to the fact that it is not only those outweigh the potential benefits’; agrees with this timely directly employed by and working for Royal Mail who and sensible assessment; and calls on the Government to are affected by the dispute. Not only businesses who use abandon proposals to build new nuclear power stations.] the services and the people who rely on them are affected, but the post office network is too. I will draw the matter Ms Harman: There will be questions for the Department to the attention of Business, Innovation and Skills of Energy and Climate Change next week, when my Ministers. hon. Friend can raise that issue. 455 29 OCTOBER 2009 456

Personal Statement Fireworks Safety Topical debate 12.11 pm Mr. Tony McNulty (Harrow, East) (Lab): With 12.14 pm permission, I would like to make a personal statement. I should like to thank the Parliamentary Commissioner The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, for Standards and the Select Committee on Standards Innovation and Skills (Ian Lucas): I beg to move, and Privileges for the report and memorandum that That this House has considered the matter of fireworks safety. was published this morning. I should like especially to This is, of course, a most timely and topical debate, thank the commissioner for his diligence and courtesy as we are one week away from 5 November, which is throughout this investigation. I am grateful that he traditionally celebrated with fireworks to remember recognises that I was within the rules of this House in that small group of recalcitrant gunpowder plotters establishing and claiming parliamentary allowances for who attempted to blow up the Houses of Parliament my constituency home. I welcome his acceptance that in 1605. my claims were necessarily incurred and that I consistently So far, the main fireworks season this year, which claimed significantly below the maximum allowed. included Diwali a couple of weeks ago, has passed I accept fully that I made careless mistakes on both without serious incident, and I hope that it remains that mortgage interest and council tax claims, for which I way through the rest of this week and next week. Over apologise unreservedly to the House, but I identified the next two weeks, millions of fireworks will be sold those errors and repaid them in full in April and May 2009. and used, safely and considerately, in back garden displays; I further accept the admonition from the commissioner and hundreds of thousands of others will attend about the informal nature of my arrangements. I regret professionally organised and safely fired public displays. that I did not recognise that a more formal arrangement Contacts that my officials have had so far this year with would have been wise and preferable so as to avoid the various police forces—[Interruption.] risk of an appearance of benefit, and I apologise for that. Paul Flynn (Newport, West) (Lab): On a point of The commissioner has accepted that my claims have order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Is it not extraordinary the effect of abating all costs except mortgage interest that we are into the debate, but nobody is sitting on the and council tax, and were therefore in line with advice Opposition Front Bench? that was given to me by the Department of Resources, which was repeated to him as recently as three months Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): That is not a ago. He has, however, challenged that advice—that point of order for the Chair, but the hon. Gentleman’s mortgage interest as a fixed cost need not be abated—and comments have been noted. has determined that it was too narrow. He has recognised that his conclusion is at odds with the Department’s Ian Lucas: As I was saying, my Department has— advice, which he accepts I followed. I fully accept that this investigation has been an Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con) rose— opportunity to shine further light on both the advice given and the rules as they pertained at the time, and Ian Lucas: I will certainly give way to the hon. Gentleman. that the commissioner has every right to redefine such advice and apply it retrospectively. Indeed, had the Mr. Bone: The Minister is talking about injury to advice been given to me in terms that have now been human beings. One of my constituents, Andrew Meads, suggested by the commissioner, I would of course have has campaigned for a long time about the damage that acted differently. fireworks do to animals. Does the Minister have a view None the less, I accept the report’s conclusions in full, on that? including the requirement to repay, with no complaint, and I apologise without reservation to the House. I Ian Lucas: I will be coming to that later in my speech, should have been much clearer about my arrangements but I certainly have a view on the matter. The effect of and taken steps to ensure that I was not open to any fireworks on animals is a serious issue, and it is important charge of benefit, and I should have had much more to take animals into account in the measures that we take. concern for how these rules were perceived by the public, rather than just following them. Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): I accept that I apologise for any part I have played in the diminution fireworks are part of our culture and they are very of the standing of this House in the eyes of the public. exciting to all of us. There have been genuine campaigns It is, however, time to move on. I apologise to the House on this issue, and surely it is about time that we had once again without reservation, Mr. Speaker; and I some restrictions on who can sell fireworks throughout thank you for allowing me to make this personal statement the whole year. One accepts that we are a bit more and for helping me to set a course to do all that I can in lenient coming up to 5 November, but there are shops future to restore the trust and faith of my constituents that seem to be able to sell fireworks every day of every and the public generally in our politics. month of the year. Surely in this day and age that is not right.

Ian Lucas: The Fireworks Act 2003 placed new restrictions on dealing in fireworks. I will be going into those in more detail later in my speech. 457 Fireworks Safety29 OCTOBER 2009 Fireworks Safety 458

Mr. Tom Watson (West Bromwich, East) (Lab): The Mr. Nigel Dodds (Belfast, North) (DUP): Has the legislation as it stands has made the use of fireworks Minister had a look at the situation in Northern Ireland, more enjoyable for many Sandwell residents. If they which has had legislation restricting the private sale of have one question for the Minister, it is this: could fireworks except for organised and licensed displays? he make them just a little bit quieter? What measures The number of complaints has diminished, although does the Department take to monitor complaints about there are still some idiots—as the hon. Member for noise? Halton (Derek Twigg) rightly characterised them. What lessons have been learned from the regime in Northern Ian Lucas: Clearly the issue of noise continues to Ireland? cause concern, and we are monitoring it closely within the Department. It is the aspect of fireworks that is of Ian Lucas: I am pleased to hear that the position has most concern to constituents, and it is the thing that is improved in Northern Ireland. We monitor the position most brought to our attention. constantly to try to improve things in the whole of the UK, and we need to learn lessons from any area that has benefited from statutory action. Mr. Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent, South) (Lab): Before my hon. Friend moves on, may I say that the concern Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con): I apologise often raised with me, in addition to those that hon. for being slightly late for the start of the debate. Members have mentioned, is the availability of fireworks As a former fireman whose life was blighted regularly via the internet? That is of great concern. I am sure that each year by fireworks, I ask the Minister to look not the vast majority of shops meet their requirements only at MPs’ postbags but at the injuries caused, especially carefully and closely, but unfortunately, on the internet, to young people and those who think that they are in fireworks do not seem to be quite so closely monitored control of themselves, but are not, especially if they and controlled. Does my hon. Friend have a view on have had a drink. The injuries are horrific, and our that? accident and emergency departments are still full of people injured by themselves and others by means of Ian Lucas: I do not have a view on that, but I am fireworks. grateful to my hon. Friend for raising the matter with me. I will certainly look at it in more detail. Ian Lucas: If the hon. Gentleman is patient, I will address that issue. He is right to say that the injuries are David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): serious, and I shall be interested to hear his remarks, Firework sellers who break the law can face stiff fines or given his experience. even prison, but is the Minister satisfied with the adequacy Contacts that my officials have had so far this year of the penalties available when people misuse fireworks? with various police forces, fire services and trading People over the age of 10 can get a fixed penalty ticket, standards departments indicate that the start of the but last week, as I was walking home in the Vincent firework season has been quiet in all senses of the word. square area, a group of youths were throwing lit fireworks However, the enjoyment of millions can be threatened, at passers by. That sort of thing is absolutely and as so often is the case, by the thoughtless, selfish and unacceptably dangerous. Surely we need to review that often criminal actions of a minority. Fireworks can be legislation. fun if they are used in a responsible and sensible fashion, but it is the actions of that minority who continue to Ian Lucas: Clearly, the sort of behaviour that my hon. let fireworks off in the street, who buy fireworks and Friend describes is completely unacceptable. Of course, give them to under 18s and who think it funny to let there would be sanctions for that sort of behaviour in off fireworks in the early hours of the morning, well the criminal law other than those available under fireworks after the curfew has come into operation, frightening legislation. That type of behaviour would be a criminal people and animals alike, who threaten to spoil it for offence. everyone else. We have made progress on fireworks. Post from my Since 2000 or so, the use and popularity of fireworks constituency on the matter has decreased substantially have grown, albeit slowly. Part of this rise can be since I was elected in 2001, but we continue to treat the attributed to a change in the type of fireworks available matter very seriously. to consumers. The traditional family selection box that I recall from many years ago is now rivalled by large Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): I get fewer complaints single ignition multi-shot cakes, “a display in a box”, than I used to before the Act was passed, but there are which were virtually unheard of 10 years ago. The still problems with some idiots abusing fireworks. Has popularity of these fireworks can be attributed to their there been any analysis of the number of complaints safety: lighting them once sets off a display letting off since the Act, and whether it has gone down or up? anything from 10 to 200-plus effects. Obviously that may mean that some garden displays now have more Ian Lucas: My hon. Friend makes an interesting bangs in them as overall they have more effects in them. point. In fact, I made some inquiries within the Department Mike Penning: What the Minister has just said is not about the decline in the number of complaints. In 2004, factually true. That sort of firework is not safer, because some 870 letters were sent by Members to the Department once set off, it cannot be stopped. If it has 200 projectiles, about the misuse of fireworks, and that has declined to they all have to go off and cannot be controlled. some 140 this year, so there has been a substantial diminution. As we know, Members are strongly Ian Lucas: I hear what the hon. Gentleman says and I motivated by complaints made to their constituency take his point about the inability to stop the process, but offices, so that is a general indicator of the success of the number of times that the individual comes into the legislation. direct contact with the fireworks is reduced. 459 Fireworks Safety29 OCTOBER 2009 Fireworks Safety 460

[Ian Lucas] Ian Lucas: My hon. Friend makes a sensible and helpful point, and I will certainly take it back to the The new types of fireworks may have led to the Department. perception that there are more noisy fireworks let off We have tried to make the information on the website each year. Another reason is the growing popularity of as accessible as possible, and it includes games for fireworks for use at weddings and civil partnerships, children to play so that they can benefit from information anniversaries, birthdays and other celebratory events. on this serious issue in an accessible and fun way. Such usage was unusual in the past, but it is developing. This trend has spread the traditional use of fireworks Mr. Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): I from bonfire night to other nights of the year. wonder if my hon. Friend agrees with me on this matter, although he might think my position strange given that It is important that the Government take an active I represent Huddersfield, which is home to Standard role when it comes to issuing firework safety messages. Fireworks—the largest fireworks company in the land, My Department has been communicating such messages although unfortunately it now manufactures fewer of throughout Diwali and will continue to do so in the them and mainly imports from China. I have been run-up to 5 November. We have worked closely with the campaigning on this matter for many years. The safest Department for Children, Families and Schools to promote place for fireworks is around a proper community fire child safety during the firework season, which complements with community fireworks, not in people’s backyards. I my Department’s aim to promote firework safety in know that I have made myself unpopular on this subject, general. but that would be the best option—and a much less There are two main audiences for firework safety polluting one, given the amount of pollution given off messages. The first is the general public who hold by the hundreds of thousands of bonfires up and down displays in their back garden for their children, and who the country. may not be aware of the firework code and safe practices, Ian Lucas: I have heard my hon. Friend’s views, and I thereby putting themselves and their own and other know that a number of hon. Members hold similar children at the risk of serious injury. The second is the ones. The Government have considered this issue over retailers of fireworks: we must encourage them to sell many years, but we have taken the view that it is part of fireworks responsibly and remind them of their obligations our culture and can be dealt with as we are dealing with under the Fireworks Regulations 2004, which are helping it—through a balanced approach and allowing, with to tackle firework crime and misuse. limitations, the use of fireworks in a private environment. The aims of the activity delivered by my Department and DCSF are to ensure that consumers have adequate John Mason (Glasgow, East) (SNP): To follow up on information about firework safety; to reduce the number that point, does the Minister at least agree that via of fireworks-related injuries by ensuring the public are publicity and so on we should encourage people to go adequately aware of the risks and dangers posed by to such public events? Councils such as that in Glasgow fireworks; and to encourage retailers to sell fireworks and elsewhere put on excellent events that are actually responsibly to over-18s and remind them of their obligations much better than those that people hold in their own under the relevant fireworks legislation. gardens. The messages are being communicated by an existing Ian Lucas: I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman. I stock of TV and radio advertisements about fireworks have been at displays that were certainly far better than safety on commercial and BBC stations. These are my inadequate efforts in my back garden many years “fillers” that are placed, free of charge, in unused air-time. ago. I encourage everyone to go to and enjoy public We also produce news releases carrying safety messages, displays because they are much more entertaining. aimed at the regional press. We also engage with key Jeremy Wright (Rugby and Kenilworth) (Con): May stakeholders such as the Child Accident Prevention I take the Minister back to a point he made earlier in Trust and the British Fireworks Association. reference to what we are discussing now? Is it not the The fireworks website www.direct.gov.uk/fireworks case that often people will go to an organised display, has also been updated and is being promoted on the but will also have fireworks displays in their back gardens? home page of Directgov. The website contains free The problem is that the fireworks season now extends resources that can be downloaded to help with the to about a quarter of the year. We need to start saying promotion of the safe use of fireworks. This includes to people that it might be nicer if they were considerate schools packs; a campaign toolkit aimed at trading to their neighbours and did not set off quite so many standards departments to enable them to undertake fireworks quite so often. local initiatives; an information leaflet for retailers; and copies of the fireworks code as leaflets and posters. Ian Lucas: It is an exaggeration to say that the fireworks season extends that far. There was a major concern a few years ago that fireworks were being used for far too Mr. Flello: I have noticed that the information provided long a period, but in my experience that has diminished with fireworks talks about the distance that should be to some extent. For the most part, we now have a maintained from the lit firework—for example, 25 metres. relatively truncated fireworks season, which I think is a Given the trend towards smaller gardens, should the good thing. recommended distances be replaced with warnings that Increasing numbers of displays now have a children’s particular fireworks are not suitable for small gardens? display, and some large public displays have— That could make matters clearer and more specific and would stop people buying fireworks that they think are Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): Order. I am appropriate for the size of their garden, but are in afraid that the Minister has had his allotted time. I call fact not. Mr. Adam Afriyie. 461 Fireworks Safety29 OCTOBER 2009 Fireworks Safety 462

12.32 pm Ian Lucas: I ought to pay tribute to my former colleague, Bill Tynan, who took forward the Fireworks Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con): I am delighted that Act. I omitted to do that earlier, but the step that he this debate has arisen today. It covers an important took was worth while. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman issue, and provides a timely opportunity to consider will agree with me on that. whether stronger fireworks safety regulations are needed. I welcome the debate, therefore, and thank my hon. Adam Afriyie: I thank the Minister for his intervention. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr. Hollobone) for That debate on fireworks safety, which led to the his vigorous campaigning. It is an important issue, and introduction of the legislation, was conducted sensibly I think that the Minister has highlighted some of the and rationally. It was a good step in the right direction, dangers and joys of the use of fireworks. although there is always hesitation from Conservative Some 500 years ago, terrorists attempted to blow up Members over enabling legislation. this place. Their plot failed, but they succeeded in This is not the first time, therefore, that we have placing an annual event in the British calendar, and to considered fireworks safety. There has been a raft of this day we mark the occasion with bonfires and fireworks fireworks safety legislation and regulations stretching on bonfire night. Fireworks form part of our history back to the Explosives Act 1875. There followed the and culture, not only on bonfire night, but on new Protection of Animals Act 1911, the Health and Safety year’s eve, and others use them for weddings and during at Work etc. Act 1974, the General Product Safety Diwali, Eid and Hanukkah. Regulations 1994, the Fireworks (Safety) Regulations There are two kinds of fireworks. First we have the 1997, the Fireworks Act 2003, the Fireworks Regulations thrilling fireworks of celebration, entertainment and 2004, the Fireworks (Safety) (Amendment) Regulations joy. They provide the glittering spectacles that excite our 2004 and the Fireworks (Scotland) Regulations 2004. children and set our hearts pumping. They are the fireworks watched on the millennium’s eve and at the Mr. Bone: Has my hon. Friend considered the later opening of the Olympics. They are the fireworks that Animal Welfare Act 2006, which puts a duty of care on bring our families and communities closer together and pet owners, and how that duty relates to the damage bind our society closer still with a sense of common done by fireworks and the distress caused to animals? history and heritage. And they are the fireworks that, if Has that been taken into account? used responsibly, bring jobs and livelihoods to thousands of people. If we are talking about those kinds of fireworks, Adam Afriyie: Very much so, which is why I mentioned I am completely and wholeheartedly in favour of them. in my opening remarks that we have to consider the There is, however, a second kind of firework: the irresponsible use of fireworks at non-designated times, misused fireworks of the irresponsible and antisocial. which can have a dreadful impact. In Windsor, we have They are the fireworks that startle horses, pets and two race courses and a wonderful array of wildlife, but wildlife. They are the fireworks that unexpectedly break horses, dogs and cats are startled by the use of fireworks. a good night’s sleep. And they are the fireworks that It is really important to consider that, especially when ignorant people misuse, causing danger, harm and injury there is a legal obligation on the owners of pets and to others. If we are talking about those kinds of fireworks, animals to take care of their well-being. There is a bit of I am completely against them. a conflict, therefore, and I hope that it will be explored Fireworks are explosives, which pose a potent risk of further during the debate. injury, and it is important that we consider those risks from time to time. I am glad that we are doing so today. Jeremy Wright: Does my hon. Friend agree that one In a civilised, democratic society, it falls on us to consider of the difficulties for animal owners is the unexpected the risks, evidence, statistics and options available so use of fireworks? If we have an organised display on that we can come to a balanced judgment. We must take 5 November, everyone knows that they have to prepare that responsibility seriously on behalf of the people their pets and horses for the event, but when they do not who elected us. Our priority must be strong and effective know that the fireworks are coming, they cannot do the rules or alternative measures to underpin the safety of necessary preparation and look after their animals properly. fireworks. We took the responsibility seriously in 2003— before my time here—and I am pleased that Conservatives Adam Afriyie: Quite right. My hon. Friend has put at that time, alongside Members of all parties, supported the point clearly and fairly eloquently. As I said, I hope the Fireworks Act 2003. that those points will be picked up and examined further during this short debate. Shona McIsaac (Cleethorpes) (Lab): Very few. Looking back through previous debates, it seems that almost everything has been considered on many previous Adam Afriyie: It was not an uncontroversial Act. occasions. Today we have an opportunity to examine the evidence and to see whether anything has changed Shona McIsaac: It was. to warrant further regulations or changes. We are happy to discuss how the existing regulations might be improved, Adam Afriyie: It was not uncontroversial, because it because we want the risks to be managed sensibly and contained enabling measures bestowing the power on a effectively. However, we think that a complete ban on future Secretary of State to create regulations and make the sale of fireworks would be a disproportionate response. decisions that were at that point undefined. Conservatives We do not want to be killjoys or to ban everything that are always uneasy when the Government take on new carries a risk, nor do we want to introduce a draconian powers without defining them. However, the Fireworks state-sanctioned prohibition without clear evidence that Act was a good step forward, and we are glad that it is it is necessary. It is wrong to punish the thousands of in place. families and communities who put on safe and enjoyable 463 Fireworks Safety29 OCTOBER 2009 Fireworks Safety 464

[Adam Afriyie] Mike Penning: Having been a fireman, I cannot believe that the Government stopped collecting the data, given firework displays at designated times and in the correct that the safety of the public is the most important thing. manner. It cannot be right that the actions of an antisocial Not only should those data be collected again, but they minority dictate the lifestyles of the majority. should include where the incident took place, whether at a public display, in a private residence or in the street. John Mason: The hon. Gentleman says that he would That information is crucial, so that we do not introduce not like a complete ban, and I tend to agree, but would unworkable legislation. he be open to tightening up the regulations, as has been suggested? Adam Afriyie: The point is incredibly well put and I agree with it entirely. The statistics have been gathered Adam Afriyie: I will come to that point in general since the mid-1970s, I think, and it could be argued that terms in a moment, but we are open to looking at the we should gather them in even greater detail, but to evidence of what may have changed since 2003 and abandon collecting them altogether is a very odd move 2004, when the legislation was brought in. Let us look by a Government who say that they are interested in the at the trends in the numbers of injuries and complaints. outcomes of their policies. If there is something to respond to, we will be open to responding with appropriate measures. Mr. Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Perhaps I can help my hon. Friend out. In 2005, which was the Mr. Watson: Does the hon. Gentleman see any merit last year in which the statistics were collected, the in regulations that would allow slightly quieter fireworks Government reported that 48 per cent. of firework-related for domestic use, but louder fireworks for commercial injuries were sustained at family or private parties, that display? one quarter were sustained in the street or another Adam Afriyie: A little boy was squeezing my hand at public place where fireworks were banned and that half the last fireworks night and saying, “Why don’t they the victims were children, even though it was then make fireworks a bit quieter?” He likes the spectacle, illegal to sell fireworks to anyone under 18. but he was not sure about the crashing and banging, so Adam Afriyie: I am glad that my hon. Friend has told I sympathise with the hon. Gentleman’s point. We have the House the numbers. The question now is: what has different categories in place, but my personal preference been the impact of the regulatory changes in 2003 and would be to consider the noise nuisance a lot more than 2004 on the number of injuries that we are concerned the light nuisance. We are happy to discuss the regulations, about? If the information is not collected, there will be but we do not want to be killjoys or respond in a no way for the House to make a sensible judgment on knee-jerk way by banning things that may carry some what may or may not need to happen next. risk without looking closely at the evidence. In closing, let me say that I understand that this can Mr. Watson: The hon. Gentleman and I share an be an emotive matter, especially when people’s safety is obsession with data, so will he confirm whether he is at stake. In those circumstances, it is more important saying that he would bring back data collection, and if than ever that we adopt a calm, reasoned and scientific so, whether he has costed it? approach to our deliberations. We are only at the beginning of this debate, but I am pleased that it has been reasonably Adam Afriyie: There is a cost to data collection, and well conducted so far. As the shadow Minister for we must ensure that it is not disproportionate. However, Science and Innovation, I believe that it is vital that we in this case, given firework safety, the antisocial aspects consider the matter carefully and on the basis of the of fireworks and the impact on animal welfare, the available evidence. It would be irresponsible to make figure would have to be pretty enormous to fail to policy changes without looking at the evidence. justify merely recording the causes of an incident when somebody arrives at accident and emergency or wherever. We need to know whether the number of injuries is I think that the data are already collected; we merely rising or falling. We need to know what the impact of require an adjustment. awareness-raising campaigns is on the number of injuries. We need to know whether people are being injured at Mike Penning: Perhaps I can help my hon. Friend. In home or at the major events. We all have our instincts my other role, as a shadow Health Minister, I can tell about that, but let us look at the figures. We also need to him that those data are collected by A and E departments know the number of children and minors injured relative and minor injuries units. Transferring them across would to the number of adults. That is just one stream of simply be a matter of joined-up government. information that we need to look at. Information is power, but I have a complaint. The Adam Afriyie: With the advent of modern technology— Government have put us in a difficult position. Bizarrely, distributive processing, systems being able to interoperate they told officials to stop gathering the information on with each other, cloud computing and virtualisation—such injuries in 2005. That was a very odd decision, and it is data transfers and interconnections are pretty easy to not good enough. Even the impact of the measures make. I am not sure that there would be an enormous or introduced in 2004 cannot be monitored adequately if disproportionate cost to transmitting those data to the the information is not available. I therefore have two appropriate location. Doing so would certainly give requests for the Minister. First, will he make a commitment hon. Members, who have a responsibility to consider to start this year to count the number of injuries caused the evidence in order to reach a judgment, the opportunity by fireworks? Secondly, will he give an unequivocal to do just that. commitment that any changes to the regulations will be There is not an ideological divide in this debate. Of based on evidence, not merely assertion? This is not a course we all want safety and well-being for our families debate with an ideological divide. and our constituents. Of course we all want the antisocial 465 Fireworks Safety29 OCTOBER 2009 Fireworks Safety 466 behaviour that we witness in many of our constituencies mob-handed to lobby the Minister was that we felt that to be brought under control. Let me finish by urging the the Government were being a little slow on the uptake. Minister, first, to reinstate the collection of data or give Back in 1997 and 1998, there was a problem because of us a good reason why he would not want to do so. different types of fireworks starting to be sold, fireworks Secondly, will he give a commitment that the regulations starting to be sold in the summer, and shops opening up that he makes—or that he is considering or may consider specifically to sell fireworks for short periods. This was making—will be based on the evidence? Finally, this is resulting in a big increase in noise nuisance and antisocial an emotive debate, so let me urge a calm and reasoned behaviour, and vets and the Royal Society for the Prevention approach to it. I look forward to the rest of the debate. of Cruelty to Animals were reporting more and more injuries to animals. We felt that the Government were 12.47 pm being a little bit slow to catch up and respond to this increased nuisance. Shona McIsaac (Cleethorpes) (Lab): I am delighted We managed, however, to get enough people to back to take part in this topical debate. When it was announced, the Bill, and there were well over 100 people in the I got out my heavily annotated copy of the Fireworks House that day. They all wanted to take part in the Bill, of which I was a co-sponsor, along with my colleague debate, but again, we had to ensure that the Bill got Bill Tynan. I also used to chair the all-party group that through its Second Reading, so very few of them actually campaigned for the legislation. I hear what the Opposition spoke. I want to pay tribute to the Members from across said about being terribly calm, but one reason why that the House who supported the Bill. They included the group was set up was to try to face down some of the hon. Members for Kingston and Surbiton (Mr. Davey), opposition to introducing the changes that we needed for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs. Gillan), for Angus to tackle the serious antisocial behaviour that was associated (Mr. Weir) and for Uxbridge, as well as my hon. Friends with each 5 November. the Members for Plymouth, Sutton, for Lanark and Private Member’s Bills are notorious for never getting Hamilton, East (Mr. Hood), for Chorley (Mr. Hoyle) on to the statute book. We had to use a lot of tactics to and for Glasgow, North-West (John Robertson). They get the Bill through, which involved the hon. Member also included Paul Tyler—now Lord Tyler—and Brian for Uxbridge (Mr. Randall), who was also one of the White, the former Member for Milton Keynes, North-East. Bill’s co-sponsors, essentially having to sit on recalcitrant Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale was our stalwart champion Opposition Back Benchers. The irony was that we set who ensured that the Bill got through the other place. up the group to campaign on the issue shortly after my I used to get hundreds of complaints about fireworks hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton (Linda every year in my postbag and e-mails, but the number Gilroy) made one of the first attempts to bring in a has now declined. There is not the same level of complaints private Member’s Bills on the matter after the 1997 election, about fireworks going off in August and September, for to which the Opposition also objected. example. Our aim was to try to get the legislation on to the statute book before the 400th anniversary of the gunpowder Mr. Hollobone: I am listening to the hon. Lady with plot, and our very best chance came in 2002. Several great interest. The latest statistics from the national members of the all-party group on fireworks were lucky incident category list show that, in 2008-09, there were enough to be drawn in the ballot for private Members’ 45,112 incidents of the inappropriate use, sale or possession Bills, so we got together and said, “Right. Each and of fireworks, compared with 33,142 the previous year. every one of us will put forward a Bill on fireworks.” We Shona McIsaac: I was simply saying that the number went, mob-handed, to see the Minister and said, “If of complaints that I was getting in my postbag—about, you don’t accept the Bill introduced by Bill Tynan, who for example, the use of fireworks throughout the year—had came second in the ballot, we will move on to Bill No. 5, substantially diminished. However, when the Bill became then No. 7, No. 12 and No. 17.” So the poor old an Act, and was implemented through various orders, it Minister would have had to have spent every Friday took some time for the processes to kick in, which dealing with debates on fireworks. might explain the statistical trend that the hon. Gentleman I hope that that gives the debate a little background has mentioned. flavour of the tactics that we had to employ to get the Last week, I met several members of the Fire Brigades changes that we wanted. I find it astonishing that Union when they were lobbying Members of Parliament anyone should suggest that the legislation went through in Westminster. They have known about my interest in terribly smoothly and without any opposition. In fact, this subject over a number of years, and they were the Second Reading debate was probably the most telling me about their experiences. They said that the well-attended Second Reading debate of any private number of incidents involving fireworks that they had Member’s Bill in that Session. Obviously, we again had to deal with had declined. In our area, firefighters also to employ suitable tactics, so we ensured that we had have the power to remove inappropriate bonfires in well over 100 people in the Chamber at Prayers that day public places, and they tell me that that has made a huge to show the opponents of the measures that we had the difference to the number of incidents that they had to numbers to ensure that the Bill went through. deal with. Mr. Hollobone: Was it not a shame that the Government Mike Penning rose— did not give some of their time to enable the legislation to go through rather more easily? Shona McIsaac: I think I know what the hon. Gentleman is going to say. I will give way to him in a few seconds. Shona McIsaac: This one had always been done as a The members of the Fire Brigades Union also told private Member’s Bill. I was chair of the all-party group me that the nature of the fireworks available now gave on fireworks at that time, and one reason that we went them great cause for concern, and I agree with them. 467 Fireworks Safety29 OCTOBER 2009 Fireworks Safety 468

[Shona McIsaac] issue—are another problem. It is not, of course, just a problem of fireworks, as for a whole range of age-related This is where I differ from my hon. Friend the Under- sales young people pretend to be at a suitable age so Secretary. We are no longer talking about the Catherine that they can buy certain products. wheels and the rockets in milk bottles that I remember I do hope that we can do something about these very from my childhood. Nowadays, fireworks come in huge, large cake-type fireworks going off in small gardens. As heavy “cakes”, as they are known. Yes, they have to be I and others mentioned earlier, we might be able to look lit only once, but they are massive and completely at how the labelling is worded. Rather than focusing on inappropriate for domestic gardens. In our area, there distance—I always think my garden is bigger than it are many small, terraced houses. The instructions on actually is—and by saying that these fireworks are these “cakes”specify the distance that people are supposed inappropriate for small domestic gardens, we could to keep from them, yet they are being used in those provide better guidance for dealing with the reality of settings. I am worried about the inappropriate use of modern fireworks. these very large, modern fireworks. Thank you once again, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for calling me to speak in this debate. I think that hon. Mike Penning: Actually, I was not going to mention Members can tell that although we have had some multi-launchers, although I shall talk about them later changes, this remains an issue very close to my heart. if I catch your eye, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I was going to say that it is all well and good for the hon. Lady to say 1.1 pm that the fire brigade has the power to remove bonfires—I have my Fire Brigades Union membership card, which I Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): I am not personally a am very proud of, in my pocket—but firemen are not huge fan of fireworks, but I know that they bring great law enforcers. It is not their job to go and shut things pleasure to millions of people in this country, especially down; they need the police with them to do that. It can children. It is a shame that the actions of a few can spoil often be very difficult for them when they are at an the pleasure and, indeed, the quality of life of many, but incident. We have had bricks thrown at us from the tops I do not believe that banning fireworks would be justified. of tower blocks when we have been trying to put fires As well as depriving retailers of a valuable source of out. We have to remember that firemen are firemen, not income, a ban might create a thriving, unregulated enforcement officers. black market. Some people might even try to make their own fireworks, which would have disastrous consequences Shona McIsaac: To be picky about this, firefighters in many instances. deal with fire and safety. When I was discussing this As we have heard, the Government have introduced with them, we also talked about attacks on members of many regulations over the past few years, which have the fire service when they were called out to incidents. helped to strengthen the arm of the law in tackling Obviously, I can talk only about the area that they were antisocial behaviour. The police are now able to issue a serving, but they explained that many of the attacks fixed penalty notice on the spot and they can bring around 5 November related to people building huge forward ASBOs and acceptable behaviour contracts in bonfires in the middle of housing estates. Those bonfires more extreme circumstances. No one under 18 can buy would be lit, and when the firefighters went to the fireworks. Although the vast majority of retailers adhere incident, they would get bricks thrown at them. Some of to this regulation, fireworks can be bought on the those bonfires are piled high with pallets, tyres and so internet, as the hon. Member for Cleethorpes (Shona on. In recent years, however, the firefighters in my area McIsaac) said, and no proof of age is required. have had the power to remove them—an ability that Mike Penning: Does the hon. Lady agree that it is they see as part of their role in dealing with safety. They ludicrous to be able to purchase fireworks over the tell me that, since then, the level of antisocial behaviour internet? It presents safety issues during the transport towards them—having stones thrown at them, for of a product, which puts other people’s lives at risk, example—has dropped. especially those working in sorting offices, and we have I want to make a few points to my hon. Friend the no knowledge at all of who is buying the fireworks. If Minister, because, in spite of the progress that has been that is happening, the Minister should act now to made, some concerns remain. One is about animals, and stop it. about guide dogs in particular. We need to consider the impact of the noise from fireworks on guide dogs. Lorely Burt: I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s Guide Dogs for the Blind gave us phenomenal support intervention. I had my researcher on the internet yesterday for our private Member’s Bill. It tells me that every year, to find out just how easy it was to buy fireworks. It is some of its dogs and puppies are unable to continue extremely easy, so the Minister might like to look at that working because of the noise from fireworks. and deal with the issue in his response. I think we should do something about the noisiest Non-specialist retailers are able to sell fireworks only fireworks; it is possible to manufacture fireworks that for a prescribed period. The Government’s Firework do not produce so much noise. How to tackle the Regulations 2004, built on the 1997 regulations, placed problem of illegal sales is another issue that deeply a curfew on the use of fireworks from 11 pm to 7 am in worries me. I am told that there have been many more “peacetime”, from midnight on 5 November and from illegal sales since restrictions were brought in. Tracking l am on new year’s eve and for Diwali, the Chinese new where fireworks go when they come into the country—most year and other celebrations mentioned earlier in the are imported from China—is important. I would like to debate. know more about what happens with firework imports, Anecdotally, I would say that the number of complaints as not as many fireworks end up in shops as are brought I have received have diminished over the past few years. into the country every year. Internet sales—an age-related However, there are issues that the Government should 469 Fireworks Safety29 OCTOBER 2009 Fireworks Safety 470 tackle. Safety has been a big concern in the past. It is My position on behalf of my constituents is to call impossible to comment at the moment on how many for a ban on the retail sale of fireworks. I do so after people are injured because, as the hon. Member for much consideration, much thought and much evidence Windsor (Adam Afriyie) said, the Government stopped from my constituents that that is what they would like collecting the statistics in 2005. That is not very helpful. to see. The local newspaper, the Kettering Evening We understand that the figure stabilised at around Telegraph has, over a number of years, run many stories 1,000, but the then Department of Trade and Industry on this issue. Two years ago, it polled some 800 readers seems to have taken the view that it was unlikely to by inviting their views on the subject, and 88 per cent. change either through safety awareness or further regulation. said that they felt that the time had come to ban the To buy category 4 fireworks, I understand that people retail sale of fireworks altogether. Although we can need to say only that they are a professional firework never represent all the views of our constituents, I am display operator. No proof is required, and there is no confident that, in this case, I represent the majority view requirement for a licence, although some of the worst of my Kettering constituents. accidents have taken place in events, involving thousands As the Minister said, it is appropriate that we are of people, that were stage-managed by unlicensed operators talking about this issue here in the Houses of Parliament. who, potentially, had carte blanche to cause mayhem. I In 1605, Guy Fawkes tried to blow up Parliament, would thus ask the Minister to consider introducing which is why we have bonfire night every year—to some professional licensing requirement for public firework celebrate the foiling of what would have been a really display operators. major terrorist incident of its day. My second main area of concern, which several hon. I like fireworks as much as anyone else. I think they Members have already mentioned, is that of pets. I am are terrific. The colour, the sparkle, the noise and the not talking about acts of gratuitous cruelty, although spectacle are absolutely wonderful, and I love going to they demean us as a society. I am not even talking about firework displays. The sad fact is, however, that in our the 4,500 pets a year who wind up being treated by vets country today, 1,000 people a year are hurt because of for injury. It is incumbent on responsible owners to keep fireworks during the four or five weeks of the bonfire pets inside during the firework season, although I season. It is a disgrace that Her Majesty’s Government acknowledge the point about unexpected fireworks going stopped collecting statistics on firework-related matters off outside the approved curfew time. in 2005. I hope that, at the very least, the Minister will What I am talking about is the noise factor, which tell us that he too is concerned, and that he will take can distress millions of pets at this time of year. I steps in his Department and across Government to believe that the 120 dB limit is too high for many pets to ensure that the issue of firework statistics is dealt with tolerate and causes a disproportionate amount of suffering. appropriately. The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to In 2005—the last year in which statistics were collected— Animals has run a campaign called “Keep the noise nearly half the injuries sustained as a result of fireworks down” and it wants to see the limit reduced from 120 dB were sustained at family or private parties, 25 per cent. to 97 dB—a reduction that would have a marked impact, were suffered in the street or in other public places so I would be grateful if the Minister said whether the where fireworks are banned, and half the victims were Government would at least look at that proposition. children, although it is illegal to sell fireworks to anyone under 18. Those are very serious statistics. Mr. Watson: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for allowing me to intervene on noise reduction. I am Shona McIsaac: It is true that it is illegal to sell trying to work out the position of all three parties on fireworks to children, but it is at family parties that this subject. Is what the hon. Lady said a Lib Dem children are injured. policy or is she just questioning the Minister? Mr. Hollobone: The hon. Lady is spot on. That is why Lorely Burt: I am questioning the Minister, asking I want the retail sale of fireworks to be banned. Although him whether he would be prepared to look at the issue, injuries are occasionally sustained at well-organised which I hope answers the hon. Gentleman’s question. public events—there was a very sad case in my constituency Surely nobody wants a fun firework night at the a few years ago—most are sustained in people’s private expense of the suffering of dumb animals. As for the homes and gardens. little boy mentioned by the hon. Member for Windsor, While people may organise private or family firework is not the real fun of fireworks the spectacular display displays for the best of reasons, it is, in my view, rather than the loud clashing and banging? impossible to hold such displays without being antisocial. I wish everyone a sparkling bonfire night, including Unless those people live in very remote properties, a my constituents in Solihull, who are to be treated to a great many others will hear the noise. If a family free firework display run by the Round Table a week on suddenly ramped up the stereo system and blared out Saturday, which is particularly welcome at this time of music at 120 dB, there would rightly be plenty of recession. complaints and legislation to deal with it, but it seems that when it comes to fireworks it is okay to make a lot of noise in crowded, built-up areas. 1.8 pm Mr. Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): I am grateful John Mason: I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman to the Leader of the House for making the time available is going slightly too far by demanding a complete ban. for this afternoon’s debate. I cannot think of a more When people let off fireworks on 5 November, does that topical subject as we come up to bonfire night, so it was not give a great deal of enjoyment to the wider community, a wise choice. I congratulate all Front-Bench Members especially people who live on their own and do not set on their contributions. off fireworks themselves? 471 Fireworks Safety29 OCTOBER 2009 Fireworks Safety 472

Mr. Hollobone: I respect and understand the hon. Shona McIsaac: I was burgled at that time of year, Gentleman’s point of view. The point that I am making although it happened a good few years ago. The police on behalf of my constituents is that the best way in told me that crime peaks during that period because the which to celebrate the bonfire season—and other events, noise masks many of the tell-tale signs. When rockets such as Diwali and the Chinese new year—is through are being let off, people can smash windows and the organised, licensed displays, which minimise the health neighbours will not hear. It is not that the police are and safety issue and also provide an opportunity for necessarily elsewhere. charities to raise a lot of money. Although friends and families sometimes get together to hold joint firework Mr. Hollobone: It is probable that we are both right, parties, there are still plenty of risks of injury, and, and that both factors play a part. sadly, the statistics tell us that many people are injured as a result. Lorely Burt: I am sure that the fact that burglars and car thieves may not be wild about bonfire night does Lorely Burt: The hon. Gentleman has already given not contribute to the statistics. However, I am concerned us evidence of his mastery of the various statistics. He about the hon. Gentleman’s suggestion that the police has told us that 50 per cent. of injuries are sustained at should spend their time investigating whether people private parties. Can he tell us what percentage of people are holding their own little covert bonfire parties. Would attend private parties as opposed to public events? that not be an equally inappropriate use of police time? Mr. Hollobone: It is not that the police are going Mr. Hollobone: I have absolutely no idea. It would be around snooping on people holding private parties, nice if the Government could tell us, and that is another because that is a legal activity. What concerns them is reason why it would be good to collect the statistics. the inappropriate use of fireworks in public places. Inspector Dick Aistrop of Northamptonshire police Mr. Watson: I am enjoying the rocket that the hon. has told me Gentleman is giving all three Front Benches, but does “we build up our resources as bonfire night approaches and our he not think that a total ban would drive people to the BCU” unregulated black market, and that more unsafe fireworks —basic command unit— would be available as a result? “prepares an operational response. We identify a ‘Bronze’Commander (Inspector) to oversee those few days adjusting officer and PCSO Mr. Hollobone: The hon. Gentleman has made a duties towards the evening in order to respond to the increase in good point with which many Members will agree, but, demand.” although I share his concern, I do not think that that is There is evidence that the police are, quite rightly, a reason not to impose a ban. I believe that the vast adjusting their priorities to deal with the antisocial majority of people who hold family or private firework nuisance caused by fireworks around bonfire night. parties are law-abiding citizens who would not want to An excellent article recently in the Press and Journal organise an illegal fireworks display. I also believe that a quoted Ally Birkett, the head of community safety at ban would make policing much easier. If a police officer Grampian fire and rescue service, who said to local heard a firework being let off, finding the person who residents: was committing that illegal act would be fairly straightforward. “We strongly recommend that you do not hold your own bonfire and fireworks party and that you attend an organised and There are some stunning statistics. I read a very good stewarded event. Fireworks are explosives, not toys. If they are article in this week’s Sunday Telegraph by Melanie used inappropriately, they have the potential to cause severe Wright, who wrote: injury or death.” “According to insurer esure, about 2.8 million people are In that, he is spot on. planning to hold a bonfire party at home this year.” I must tell the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) Jeremy Wright: My hon. Friend is making a very that I do not know how many of those people will also good case. Does he agree that one of the other problems be attending organised displays, or how many people in this country is the closeness in time between Halloween who do not hold bonfire parties at home will attend and 5 November? There has been an increase in trick or them, but that would certainly be an interesting statistic. treating, and fireworks are being used in that activity. That is particularly distressing, especially for the elderly According to the article, who are coming to fear this time of year for all the “research from Churchill Home Insurance reveals almost two wrong reasons. million British homes have been damaged as a result of fireworks going astray, with each incident costing an average of £307 to put Mr. Hollobone: As usual, and as on so many matters, right.” my hon. Friend is absolutely right. The fireworks season It also gave another stunning statistic: is far too long. The prescribed period in the legislation “Aviva claims data reveals that Bonfire Night is the worst day is 15 October to 10 November. I would suggest that it is of the year for burglaries – they rise by over a quarter – as well as flexible on the boundaries and is too long. It should be the worst day of the year for car theft – an increase of 25 per cent. redefined to “5 November or the nearest weekend”. We compared to an average day.” seem to be able to do that with Remembrance Sunday, Members will be asking themselves why that is the case. which we celebrate on the nearest weekend to 11 November. One reason is that the police are having to spend so Why cannot we do the same for bonfire night? The much time dealing with all the antisocial behaviour added complication in our multicultural society is Diwali, caused by the inappropriate use of fireworks on or which happens around the same time. In some of our around bonfire night that burglars and car thieves are more urban areas that is causing a problem as well. taking the opportunity to go about their business. Again, if the retail sale of fireworks were banned, we 473 Fireworks Safety29 OCTOBER 2009 Fireworks Safety 474 would not have the problem. We would have licensed treated for injury. It is not just domestic pets, but and organised events happening on or immediately wildlife. The Evening Telegraph in Kettering asked around bonfire night itself. constituents to raise with me any questions they wanted me to put during the debate and there are several that I Mr. Henry Bellingham (North-West Norfolk) (Con): wanted to pose to the Minister. One reader suggested My hon. Friend is putting a persuasive case and will that housing association contracts should contain a recall that, a couple of years ago, he and I took a clause to ban residents from using fireworks. That reader petition to No. 10 that had been organised by my was particularly concerned about the use of fireworks constituent Teresa Kulkarni, who has been campaigning in built-up areas. Another raised the animal welfare tirelessly on the issue for many years. I entirely agree legislation and the liability of those who hold family or that having a shorter timespan for fireworks would private firework displays for the harassment, alarm or make a lot of sense. Does he agree that putting the onus injury caused to the pets of their neighbours. It would on retailers would make a lot of sense? If we had an be helpful if the Minister clarified that. initial voluntary scheme to prevent the sale of fireworks I am most grateful to the Government for holding the outside that period, we would not need legislation, on debate. It is an issue that will not go away. The evidence which we could fall back as a last result. from my constituents and the limited statistical evidence we have from Government sources suggests to me, and I Mr. Hollobone: I am most grateful for that helpful hope to the House, that the problem is getting worse, intervention. I well remember the high-powered delegation not better, and that the time will soon come when the he led to No. 10 to present the petition from Miss Kulkarni, Government of the day will need to consider a full ban which I think contained about 129,000 signatures and on the retail sale of fireworks. clearly represented a large body of opinion that would like action to be taken against fireworks. His constituent Several hon. Members rose— would go further than my hon. Friend’s modest proposal Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. This debate must finish and although I respect his views on the need to tighten at 1.44 pm. Perhaps those hon. Members who are legislation, I would go further. If we are to be sensible seeking to catch my eye could bear that in mind. and get to the nub of the problem, we need to ban the retail sale of fireworks altogether. 1.28 pm The law, as tightened in 2004, is not having that much John Mason (Glasgow, East) (SNP): I will do my best effect. From 2007-08 to 2008-09, the number of antisocial to be brief. We have had a useful speech on the history behaviour incidents recorded by police in England and of fireworks from the hon. Member for Cleethorpes Wales relating to the inappropriate use, sale, possession (Shona McIsaac), who is no longer in her place. of fireworks climbed from 33,142 to 45,112. The number I have a couple of personal examples to cite. An older of penalty notices for disorder issued for fireworks-related constituent who lives on her own had a firework put offences in the latest year for which figures are available, through the letterbox of her house. Fortunately, she has 2007, was a grand total of 816, compared with 33,000 a second door, the glass of which shattered. If that door incidents. The number of defendants proceeded against had not been there, I do not know what would have at magistrates courts for offences relating to fireworks happened. It was a frightening experience for her. Also, in England and Wales was, in 2006, 571. I would suggest I came out of my office last year onto a fairly busy that a very small number of people are being sanctioned street and there were rockets going horizontally across for the inappropriate use of fireworks. The legislation is the road at ground level. Clearly, we have a problem. In well intentioned but it is not having the effect that it addition to parties and anniversaries, Glasgow also has needs at street level. an issue of fireworks when there is a football match and There is concern that we are not getting the information especially when one half of the Old Firm has beaten that the House needs. My local hospital has been extremely the other. helpful in telling me that during November it sees on I wanted specifically to mention animals and some of average 43 per cent. more attendances for burns than at the effects that fireworks have on them. The SSPCA, the other times of the year. I am also told that the hospital Scottish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, does not record specifically an A and E attendance as a is running a campaign about this. Contrary to some result of fireworks, as it is not part of the nationally public opinion, the RSPCA does not cover the whole of mandated data collection. It is the best estimate they the UK. As I understand it, the RSPCA covers England can give me but it is not mandatory to collect the and Wales and a completely separate body, the SSPCA, evidence. covers Scotland. I like animals—I am not unusual in I asked my local fire and rescue service in that—and I hate to see pets and other animals being Northamptonshire for its statistics. It was extremely terrified by the kinds of noise we have to put up with helpful in telling me that there were about 81 recorded sometimes. My lifestyle does not allow me to own a firework incidents for the first eight days of November dog, but both my mother and my sister have them, and I in most years. But, again, it had to search through its have seen my mother’s collie-cross shivering with terror data, using the word “firework”, as the information is at the noise that has been caused by fireworks. not specifically collated. The local police inspector tells The SSPCA would certainly call for a reduction in me that over the years 2006 to 2008, there were between the allowable level of firework noise. That currently 144 and 173 incidents of the inappropriate sale or use of stands at 120 dB, yet humans are advised to wear ear fireworks under the antisocial behaviour legislation. protection when exposed to noise above 80 dB. The There is no doubt at all that animals are severely noise of a typical pneumatic drill measures about 100 dB. distressed by the loud bangs caused by fireworks and We must also consider that a dog’s hearing is twice as about 4,500 animals are hurt each year by fireworks and sensitive as a human’s, and a cat’s is three times as 475 Fireworks Safety29 OCTOBER 2009 Fireworks Safety 476

[John Mason] things is obvious to everybody, but there are people who do things like that, sometimes due to alcohol or bravado sensitive, so it is no surprise that animals are stressed. in front of others. I have seen people firing fireworks The SSPCA has cited the examples of a mare aborting down a high street, too. her foal and another who delivered a stillborn foal Does this mean, however, that we have to ban everybody’s following a fireworks display held 100 yards from the pleasure because a group of idiots want to play around field. with fireworks? I do not think so. Instead, I think that Two main issues should be addressed. First, I support we need to look seriously at the legislation. We need to early-day motion 1981 tabled by the hon. Member for have the data available so that what we do is evidence Rochdale (Paul Rowen), which calls for the decibel level based, instead of impulse based, as happens a lot of of fireworks to be reduced from 120 to 97; his party’s time, with people referring to cases from “Our spokesperson has already referred to that. Secondly, I correspondence”. Our correspondence, however, tends agree with those who have argued that the availability of to be motivated by individuals who have a particular fireworks and the length of time for which they are feeling about something; but that is often not the general permitted to be on sale should be controlled. As has feeling of the entire constituency. We have all seen been said, some improvements have been made, but the campaigns where a strong group of people have got permitted time for sales, which runs from 15 October to together and loads of correspondence comes in, but 10 November, is still very long. One suggested limitation when we look into it, we see that it represents a tiny is for the period to begin about a week before minority within our constituencies. 5 November—on about 29 October—and to stop on I agree that some of the fireworks that are still 5 November; I fail to see why there need to be sales after available in the shops should not be on sale to the that date. Having more specific times governing the use public. We should look at how powerful these multi- of fireworks would help animal owners, including farmers launchers are and how many launchers they have, and and pet owners, as it would be easier for them to keep most of them should be part of displays, not used in our their animals inside for that given period. I am not back gardens. We also need to consider the role of calling for a complete ban, or a complete ban on sales retailers. They will say to us that they are doing their to the public, but I think we could tighten the rules level best to check whether the purchasers are old a bit. enough—that same argument was used about alcohol Finally, may I just pay tribute to Glasgow city council, sales and now is cited about cigarettes. Last week, the which puts on excellent displays every year, and to Minister of State, Department of Health, the hon. council officials, and also to Clyde police and fire and Member for Lincoln (Gillian Merron) said at the Dispatch rescue, who put great effort into enforcing the existing Box that she could not impose legislation on proxy sale regulations? of cigarettes as it was unenforceable, even though we have that provision for alcohol. [Interruption.] I agree with the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) that 1.32 pm that is ludicrous, and so is this argument on fireworks. Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con): It is a A huge amount of proxy sales are going on, when pleasure to be able to take part in a debate that, for people who can prove they are over 18 buy fireworks in once, I know a fair bit about. I became enormously shops and then come out and either give them or sell popular when I became a fireman in Essex; I was invited them to minors. The police need to deal with that. If to so many displays and garden parties on and around they say the law is unenforceable, we need to find a way fireworks night, because people appreciate how dangerous of making sure it is enforceable. I believe it is enforceable, fireworks can be. Interestingly, I was usually the person but the punishment must fit the crime. At present, it who was offered the taper and invited to light the larger, does not—an on-the-spot fine will not scare these people more dangerous fireworks. off. They are earning an awful lot of money by selling fireworks on at a premium to younger people. The debate has been eminently sensible. If we were to Perhaps I am naive, but I was also shocked to learn take a poll of my former colleagues in the fire service, I that fireworks can be sold by post. They can be purchased do not think there is any doubt that the vast majority on the internet, and then they pass through our sorting would opt for a ban on sales to the public, but I do not offices to be delivered. I acknowledge that there is agree. I think we need laws that are enforceable—I shall currently an issue with the sorting offices, but the people refer later to the fact that many existing laws are not who work in them need to be protected. We could not currently enforced and, indeed, are very difficult to send such quantities of explosives through the Royal enforce. I also want to talk about multi-launchers, which Mail legally if they were not in the form of a firework. I truly frighten a lot of people. hope the Minister will stand up and say he will work The Minister said it was safer to have multi-launchers. with his colleagues to make sure such sales are banned As he suggested, they can carry from about 10 up to immediately. 200-plus fireworks. Multi-launchers are basically incendiary devices that throw explosives—usually Roman candles— Ian Lucas: As I understand it, it is illegal to send into the air, and up to 150 feet for the smaller ones. The fireworks through the ordinary post. They have to be problem is that if they are not on a level stand and sent via specified special delivery. something knocks them, they cannot be stopped. Even a bucket water will not stop them; they are designed to Mike Penning: For clarification, what is special delivery? work in the wet so we do not lose fireworks’ night There is still somebody walking around delivering something because of rain. I have seen what I call “Herberts” that is likely to explode if compressed. Ignition from a actually holding them against their chest and firing spark is not necessary to make fireworks go off. They fireworks across a field. The danger in doing such can be ignited in other ways, not least by compression. 477 Fireworks Safety29 OCTOBER 2009 Fireworks Safety 478

The point I am making is this: let us not spoil a 1.39 pm wonderful tradition that we have had in this country for many years because a minority of people are abusing it. Ian Lucas: With the leave of the House, Mr. Deputy Let us encourage more displays. In my own constituency, Speaker, I shall respond in general terms in the short I shall be at the Leverstock Green village association time left available. Time will not permit me to respond fireworks display as I am every year, where we raise to a number of specific queries that have been raised, money for the local community in a safe environment. but I shall contact the hon. Members who have taken Let us understand the pet problem, too. I fully agree on part in this debate in writing on those issues. that. I have a dog that goes absolutely ballistic at home This debate has been extremely valuable, and I have during fireworks night—very often we will make sure learnt a great deal from the Members who have taken that we have the means to pacify him available at part, some of whom have a particular interest in this home—but, by the way, he goes mad when there is area. We all recognise that this is a very important issue thunder and lightning, or when the postman comes, or for our constituents. I have heard, in particular, the when a million and one other things happen. issue raised about the collection of statistics—that is causing concern across the House. I am advised that the Shona McIsaac rose— reason why they were not collected after 2005 was that Mike Penning: I will not give way, as I am short of for a long period the statistics had remained very stable time. We cannot eliminate the fact that there will be and the same statistics were being recorded year after noise out there. year. I have heard what the House has had to say on the matter, so I shall speak to officials in the Department I was at a public meeting in my constituency on about this issue. Friday evening, where we were discussing the noise problem caused by traffic passing through one of my The approach that the Government took to the private most beautiful hamlets on the edge of the Chilterns. Member’s Bill in 2003 has led to progress. I believe that The decibel levels there were 105. Therefore, some of the position has improved, but that is not to say that it the noise levels we are talking about in respect of cannot be made better. This issue needs to be considered fireworks are already present in everyday life in our by the Government on a continuing basis. I have heard constituencies. I do not think we can control thunder the representations made on the time frames and the and lightning decibel levels. I would love to be able to dates specified in the regulations. The regulations, as control the traffic to get decibel levels down to about 85, they stand, have made a great deal of progress on the which is what I think the legal limit is, but most urban use of fireworks, and for the moment the Government traffic in London might well be above that, and it is consider them to be doing a good job. We continue to certainly above that in parts of my constituency. seek to improve the position, which we believe to be I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering much improved, and we will continue to monitor and (Mr. Hollobone) on convincing the Government to listen to representations that are made. I close by simply have this debate. Very unusually, I disagree with him on thanking hon. Members for taking part in a good-natured, this subject, however. Sadly, I think we might end up in informative and well-informed debate, and for their the legislative position that he proposes, but I think we time. should not destroy the great traditions of this great Question put and agreed to. country of ours because of a minority. If we do that, we have lost the battle for the rights of the majority in the Resolved, country. That this House has considered the matter of fireworks safety. 479 29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 480

Social Care Green Paper Andy Burnham: I can certainly give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. Obviously we want the results of the consultation to be laid open, and I am grateful that he 1.42 pm said he appreciated my presence in this debate. Since I The Secretary of State for Health (Andy Burnham): I took on this job, this issue has been at the top of my beg to move, priority list. We urgently need to try to build a consensus in this country for the reform of social care. Of course That this House has considered the matter of the Social Care we want all views to be heard as part of that, but there Green Paper. will come a point at which we have to try to find the Today’s debate is another welcome sign of the growing compromise and consensus option that carries the greatest debate about the future of social care; it is a debate possibility of securing support in the country. That is initiated by our Green Paper “Shaping the Future of the phase that will come after the Green Paper debate. Care Together”. I am pleased to say that already this has turned into one of the largest consultation Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab): Although I realise exercises the Government have ever carried out: there that the impact of this Green Paper mainly applies to have been more than 91,000 hits on the website— England, parts of it also apply to Wales, particularly in www.careandsupport.direct.gov.uk—and more than 17,500 respect of the benefits system. My constituency contains consultation responses received, and 35 stakeholder one of the highest percentages of disabled people in the events have been held across nine English regions, with country, and I have received an enormous number of two more scheduled. So there has already been an letters from people who are particularly concerned about enormous level of engagement. That is appropriate, the withdrawal of disability living allowance and attendance because there could not be more important issues for allowance—they claim that that would have a great this House to consider than how we fund social care impact on their lives. Will he give me some information into the future and how we give all people in this on that, so that I may pass it on to my constituents? country quality of life and dignity in retirement. After too long on the periphery, this issue is now centre stage. Andy Burnham: I can tell my right hon. Friend that There is a building consensus that fundamental reform this Green Paper contains implications for the care is needed soon if we are to secure a fairer deal for older system in Wales and for the benefits system there. I and disabled people. assure her that we are working closely with Edwina Hart and her colleagues to ensure that close co-operation Kelvin Hopkins (Luton, North) (Lab): Would my takes place. On the question of benefits, I announced right hon. Friend say that the consultation has been last week that we were ruling out DLA for people who genuinely open about all possibilities of funding care, are under 65 from the consideration and the modelling including funding out of general taxation for everybody? in the Green Paper, in order to provide the kind of reassurance that I think my right hon. Friend seeks. Andy Burnham: I would certainly say that it has been People may say, “That was premature because the an open consultation and that we have not approached consultation hadn’t ended.” We just thought it was a the matter with a fixed view about the future. The sensible step to take to put people’s minds at rest. We consultation put forward three broad options for the have done that, and I shall return to the theme of future funding of social care: the partnership option; attendance allowance later in my remarks. the insurance option; and the comprehensive option. It ruled out the two other options at either end: wholly Hywel Williams (Caernarfon) (PC): The Secretary of funding the system from taxation, and, in effect, leaving State just alluded to attendance allowance, which is the a free-for-all. Those options were ruled out because we other concern of people in Wales. Can he confirm that do not believe it would be fair across the generations to no consultation specifically on attendance allowance ask the working age population to pay for the costs of was undertaken, either in Wales or in Scotland, even care today. We believe—this is at the heart of this though the changes suggested in the Green Paper might proposal—that, as was identified in all the King’s Fund have a substantial impact in both those countries? work, a partnership option involving the individual and the state is the right way to fund social care into the Andy Burnham: It is important to remind the hon. future. However, obviously that partnership can be Gentleman that it is a Green Paper on which we are constructed in different ways so as to achieve maximum consulting; we are hearing a range of views not only fairness. from England but from all around the country—we would, of course, hear representations made from Wales. Mr. Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam) (LD): The It is important that people do not say we are not fact that the Secretary of State is kicking off this debate listening and not consulting; we are doing so. Obviously, is an indication of the importance that the Government we are talking to colleagues in the Welsh Assembly attach to this subject, and we are grateful that he is here Government and the Scottish Executive, and we will to do that. I attended a couple of the consultation continue to do so. I recognise that the proposals have events in my constituency, which were attended by implications for policy elsewhere in the United Kingdom. providers of care, people receiving care and various It is important that we are sensitive to that and that we other representatives of those with a stake in all this. balance all views when we introduce our White Paper in Interestingly, at both those sessions the issue of taxation the new year. came through as something that people wanted to reinsert into the consultation. Will the results of the consultation Mr. David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab): I just want to accurately report those consultation events that actually pick up on the point made by my hon. Friend the vote for taxation to be considered? Member for Luton, North (Kelvin Hopkins). Can we 481 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 482 be clear that the Secretary of State is not ruling out Andy Burnham: The crucial issue is whether my hon. discussions on the type of model that has been proposed Friend has spoken to all people across all ages and by my hon. Friend—a model that should be fully funded whether he has spoken to a representative sample of the by tax or national insurance? Although that is not one whole population. The idea might be more appealing to of the options in the Green Paper, will the Secretary of older people, who might find it an attractive option, but State, as he said, be listening and not ruling it out? If he less appealing to people in their 20s and 30s who are wants to rule it out, I will go home now and get the struggling to get on to the property ladder. We have to 2 o’clock train. take a view across the entire population and to consider what will be fair to all generations and sustainable in the Andy Burnham: Far be it from me to prevent my hon. long term. That is the consensus that we are struggling Friend from getting home this evening. In the Green to find. If my hon. Friends want to make strong Paper, we have put forward three options that we believe representations to me about reconsidering this matter, are the fairest way of funding care in the future. I was we will listen. However, I think the King’s Fund was going to give some statistics on how the nature of our right to say that the best chance of finding consensus society will change in terms of the number of working rests in the notion of partnership between the state and age people in comparison with the number of people in the individual. retirement. Those statistics need to be borne in mind by The “Big Care Debate”, which began a national my hon. Friend—I know that he will do so—in considering conversation about social care, ends on 13 November the fairest way to proceed. Obviously we have a system and I urge Members on both sides of the House to today whereby people are paying out large amounts to make one last push in their constituencies to encourage fund their care. They are already making a substantial people to contribute and send in their views. personal contribution to the cost of their care. In my Only a few days ago, we were reminded why this view, it would not be honest or straightforward to give debate is so important. The recent population projections the impression that we can fully fund a care system from the Office for National Statistics tell the story of entirely from general taxation. We have ruled out that how quickly Britain is ageing. By 2033, the ONS suggests option, and my hon. Friend has good time to get up to that the number of people aged 85 will rise from 1.3 million King’s Cross. to 3.3 million, while the ratio of working age adults to pensioners—the so-called dependency ratio—will drop Jeremy Wright (Rugby and Kenilworth) (Con): I below three. Parallel to that, improvements in medical understand, of course, that a large part of this debate treatment are extending the lives of those with disabilities will be about how we pay for care. However, does the or long-term conditions. That all points to the exchanges Secretary of State agree that it is equally important to that we were just having about the affordability of any talk about what we are paying for? I welcome entirely system in the long term and, in particular, the ratio of what the Green Paper says about standardised assessments. working age people to those in retirement. Multiple assessments are not only wasteful financially but extremely distressing. Will he also address Angela Browning (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): In commissioning in his speech, and whether or not we are the context of the figures that the Secretary of State has commissioning the right things at the moment? It seems just announced, when he considers the results of the to me—he might agree—that there is far too much consultation will he pay particular attention to the fact commissioning for tasks and far too little for good that as the population gets older, and given that older quality care overall. Does that not need to be a large people have a higher level of dependency, so, within part of this consultation? families, do their carers? Increasingly, pensioners are looking after even older pensioners who are their dependants. He cannot ignore that, because the strain Andy Burnham: I could not agree more with the hon. on older people in a caring role is very great. Gentleman. He tempts me back to the substance of my remarks. I do not want this debate to be conducted with Andy Burnham: The hon. Lady makes an intelligent a sense that it is simply about funding what we are and important point. That is the nature of how the doing already. We have to consider care and support in world is changing. People in their 60s and 70s have the context of reshaping services around the individual caring responsibilities, which place considerable stress so that health and council staff work in a much more and strain on them. My parents’ generation is perhaps integrated fashion, supporting people at home and keeping the first generation to have seen that and to have had them out of hospital. That is at the heart of the vision, caring responsibilities for children, grandchildren and, and I shall come on to discuss it, but the hon. Gentleman at the same time, parents. That places very considerable is absolutely right to say that commissioning is at the pressure on some people. As I was saying to the hon. heart of it. Once we have explored the funding, we come Member for Rugby and Kenilworth (Jeremy Wright) a to delivery and how best to achieve the kind of services moment ago, any system needs to rethink how we that we want. This is about a vision for the future of provide care and support so that it helps people to cope social care, and I agree with him entirely. with that pressure by providing support when they need it, when it is most valuable to them, and so that it makes Kelvin Hopkins: I thank my right hon. Friend for the life of being a carer more tolerable than it is today. giving way again, and I want to address this funding This does not mean replacing or sidelining the role of matter again. I have spoken on many platforms, suggesting carers; the only way that the system we are talking that care should be fully funded from taxation. I have about would work would be if we did a better job of not had a single person disagree with me; they all think helping people cope than we are doing today. That that would be the sensible and fair way to do it, just as would be crucial in helping us to face the demographic with the national health service. challenges of the future. 483 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 484

Mr. Burstow: Earlier this year, the Government cost can run into hundreds of thousands of pounds. announced a very welcome injection of £150 million for That is a cruel lottery, and the fact that people born carers over two years. In a debate that we had earlier after the war, the first real property-owning generation, this year about carers, I asked the Minister of State, will soon enter the care system only intensifies the need Department of Health, the hon. Member for Corby for change. We could see unfairness played out on a far (Phil Hope), how we could track that money. He quite greater scale over the next 20 or 30 years if we do not rightly urged me to go back to my constituency and ask make changes to the care system today. those questions. I did and I finally received a letter It is therefore no exaggeration to say that the yesterday—three months later—to tell me how the money Government’s Green Paper “Shaping the Future of was being allocated. I was told that because the money Care Together” is a Beveridge moment for social care. It was being allocated through general growth, specific is a chance to rebuild the social care system from first plans had not been drawn up to spend it on caring principles and to raise our ambitions for care and activities. My concern is that the £100 million that support in the future. One of the main messages that I comes next year will go the same way—it will just be should like to communicate today is this: in the time rolled into general spending and will not particularly that this Parliament has left, one collective responsibility benefit carers. What can be done to ensure that it gets to is to build an unstoppable momentum for legislation on carers? social care in the next Parliament. Andy Burnham: We are issuing guidance on how to Kelvin Hopkins: Does my right hon. Friend agree that commission appropriate services for carers, but I recognise at the heart of the Beveridge plan was the principle of the issue that the hon. Gentleman is raising. The Princess universality? It was also at the heart of national health Royal Trust has done some good work on that issue. service planning. However, what my right hon. Friend There is a balance to be struck. The hon. Gentleman talks about is not universal. and his colleagues on the Liberal Democrat Benches have sat there and lectured us many times about being Andy Burnham: My hon. Friend should study the too top-down, on ring-fencing too much and on target- Green Paper, which talks about the creation of a national setting too much. They say we are taking away local care service that will include universal entitlements to discretion and how disgraceful that is, but then the hon. assessment, reablement and other services. People will Gentleman says that if we allow too much local discretion, be entitled to have some of their care needs met. local bodies do not do what we want. There is a balance Social care was outside that original consensus, and to be struck. The Government allocated this money for that reason has always been a partnership involving because of the importance of the issue, but I stress to the individual, the family, the community and the state—all the hon. Gentleman that although I and the Minister of them playing a role in the provision of support. Care responsible for care services, the Minister of State, my has always been provided on that basis, but the purpose hon. Friend the Member for Corby (Phil Hope), have a of this exercise is to ask, “Can we find a fairer way that responsibility to ensure that our objectives are met, it is spreads the costs and the risks across us all and is a the responsibility of Members of Parliament to challenge collective system that provides more peace of mind for primary care trusts if they are not commissioning services us all?” in the expected way. I was speaking a moment ago about people living Jeremy Wright: The right hon. Gentleman mentioned longer, particularly those with disabilities and long-term that the issue will effectively be a problem for the next conditions. The life expectancy of people with Down’s Parliament. Regrettably, it has come before this Parliament syndrome is just one illustration of that. Just after the at its end rather than its beginning, but we are where we war, a child with Down’s rarely survived into adulthood. are. He mentioned dementia, and he knows that that is Today, it is possible for them to live well into their growing as fast as, if not faster than, the other problems 60s and, with the right support, to enjoy a full and that he has described. He knows, too, that people with rewarding life. What a wonderful sign of health and dementia are among those who are particularly affected human progress that is, yet the sense of a world transformed by the mismatch between the quality of the services brings into sharp focus the challenge ahead for social they receive and the amount of money they pay to care. receive them. One reason is the lack of training for those who provide dementia care. May I commend to It has been remarked, quite fairly, that if William him the report of the all-party dementia group, which I Beveridge had sat down today to develop the welfare know his colleague, the Minister of State, the hon. state he would have put social care at the centre rather Member for Corby (Phil Hope), has seen? I hope that than the periphery of his plans. More than 60 years the right hon. Gentleman will include it in the Government’s after the birth of the NHS, it is worth reflecting that the thinking on the improvement of social care more generally. same unfairness that originally drove Nye Bevan still exists in social care today, and it is this: people with the Andy Burnham: I know that the hon. Gentleman greatest needs are paying the most; the services that a chairs the all-party dementia group, and my hon. Friend person receives vary markedly according to geography; the care services Minister has just informed me of the and what an individual spends on their care is only valuable work that it does. I must correct what the hon. loosely linked to their ability to pay for that care. Gentleman said at the start of his intervention, however. Hon. Members will appreciate that the spectrum of It is not as though we have done nothing, to be fair. The care costs is extremely wide. About one fifth of people Department of Health has produced a dementia strategy, can expect to need care costing less than £1,000; for which has been widely welcomed. Indeed, its preparation another fifth, the cost will be in excess of £50,000; and, drew on a range of voices and outside organisations, for a smaller but growing proportion with very high and it is an important piece of work. There has been all needs, particularly those who develop dementia, the the work with individual budgets, too. 485 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 486

However, I have said in many speeches—I am owning each option, we could apply a more progressive approach, up here—that politicians have for too long flinched whereby those with more would pay more, or a flat fee from the debate, because it raises difficult and awkward and universal approach, whereby everybody paid the questions about funding. I am signalling very clearly same. The Green Paper touches on those questions, and that that cannot continue, and we have to make care an in the consultation we want to draw them out. We have issue on which the parties lay out their different options. an open mind on those questions. It should feature prominently at the next election, and The current threshold of about £23,000 is a crude the expectation should be that if we can agree on one cut-off point, and we can do better to give people more thing it should be this—that we create an unstoppable peace of mind in retirement. That is what we are working momentum for legislation in the next Parliament. towards, but the question about the extent to which any On the history of the issue, I note that the royal new system should involve means-testing is difficult. It commission, which the Government set up in 1998, is not a popular subject among older people, and we could not find a consensus, but I am clear that we need to test people’s sense of fairness on building a cannot proceed with reforms unless we find a broad system with either means-testing or a more universal consensus across the country. Such is their reach and approach at its heart. We are open-minded on that their importance to us all that we could not implement question, as we are on all questions in the Green Paper. them with 51 per cent. support for one option and However, one area in which we have indicated that we 49 per cent. against, based on the options that my hon. will go further is the provision of free personal care for Friend the Member for Luton, North (Kelvin Hopkins) those with the greatest needs. The long-term aim of a has pushed towards me. Whatever the option, we would 21st century care system should be more people living have to implement it with a broader sense of fairness full and independent lives in their own homes for as and consensus. That is what we are trying to find, but long as possible. In that respect, the Prime Minister’s the hon. Member for Rugby and Kenilworth makes a landmark announcement of free personal care for those very valuable point, and we take such issues very seriously. with the highest needs is an important staging post for We have to seize the moment; otherwise we face a the type of care service that we want to build. It is an bleak future in which inadequate budgets are stretched opportunity to start to address the unfairness in the ever more thinly around an ageing population, providing system here and now, and to do so in a way that listens in the process less and less dignity and a worse quality to people’s fundamental desire to remain independent of life in retirement. It is not a very encouraging prospect; and in control of their lives for as long as possible. For in fact, it is very depressing, and that is why we need me, that does not mean creating new incentives to put to act. people into residential care. In my view, it is no solution The Government’s proposal for a new national care to say to people that the only way to protect their home service to sit alongside the national health service is the is to go into a home. right and radical answer to the mounting unfairness. I am disappointed that the shadow Secretary of State Under the national care service, people would have the for Health is not here today, either because he felt it was reassurance of a universal system, the security to plan not important enough or could not find the time. Had for the future and the knowledge that they would not he been here, I would have wanted to question him need to sell their home if they required high levels closely on how promoting a scheme that provides help of care. only if individuals go into residential care can possibly There would be a new standardised assessment to hold an answer to the future care needs of this country. end postcode lotteries in the current system, and free Surely the future is about helping people to stay in their information and advice would be available to all, helping own homes for as long as possible and giving them people to navigate the system when they are most in access to the support that makes that possible, not need of a helping hand. The national care service would having a system that creates an incentive to put people be anchored in prevention and early intervention, with into residential care. That is a depressing view of the care services working far more closely with the NHS to future and an inadequate and flawed response to the ensure that people received the integrated support they challenges that the country faces. Though I welcome needed. In particular, reablement—intensive support, the Conservatives’ engagement in the debate, at long helping people to recover after illness or bereavement— last, I am disappointed that the shadow Secretary of would be at the heart of all options. State is not here to speak up and begin to try to explain how the plans that he has put forward could possibly Mr. Burstow: Will the Secretary of State address an answer the country’s needs. omission from the Green Paper? It is very important that he does so if we are to understand the direction of Kelvin Hopkins: At this moment, people feel pressurised travel. The omission is means tests on, and thresholds into keeping their relatives at home because they fear for, the assets that a person would be able to hold before losing what may be a relatively small amount of equity they accessed state support. The Green Paper is silent to some people, but is a lot to them—and the only on that and on whether the Government think that equity in the family—if they lose granny’s house having additional new resources would be needed to achieve an been forced to use it to pay for granny’s care. That is improvement in care quality. Will the Government spell what is happening. I have come across cases in my out those points in their White Paper? constituency of people who are deliberately keeping at home unwell relatives who would be better off in residential Andy Burnham: They would obviously have to be care. spelt out. The Green Paper’s approach was to consult on principles, providing not all the details of how we Andy Burnham: I certainly recognise the problem that would construct the options, but the principles that fit my hon. Friend describes. That is why reform of the most closely with the consensus in the country. Under system is growing ever more urgent. There has been a 487 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 488

[Andy Burnham] legislates on social care. [Interruption.] In answer to the hon. Member for Reading, East (Mr. Wilson), we are fundamental shift. My parents’ generation are the first coming forward with a clear vision of the future—ideas major property-owning generation. In the past, people to put on the table. The Labour party created the in my constituency, a former mining area, did not own national health service, and now it has a very clear idea their properties, but today they do. People in their 60s about the social care system. I think that people will and 70s have bought their homes and now have an asset look to us for ideas because of our history and what we that they own. They may not have a lot in savings or have done in providing better support for people. The other assets, but they do own a home. It is important hon. Gentleman is chucking jibes over here, but where that we create options for the future that are not just are his proposals on how he will make life fairer for about residential care. This is about how to help people, older people in this country? Where is his shadow and the people who care for them, by enabling them to Secretary of State, for that matter? enjoy and stay in their own home, and if necessary to Our vision for the future is about bringing more pass that home on to the next generation. That is at the support into people’s homes—not putting people into heart of the entire Green Paper, which is about doing it homes, but giving them more support, using new technology better than we are doing it today. to the full. The answers are out there already. Many Members will be able to call to mind examples from Mr. David Anderson: I share my right hon. Friend’s their own constituencies involving telecare and other unhappiness that the shadow Secretary of State is not technologies, helping people stay in their homes for here. Does my right hon. Friend have any idea how longer, and personal budgets opening doors and extending much of the £8,000 that was proposed to be put forward choice for individuals and their family. A progressive as a donation by anyone going into residential care system of care and support should open up options for would be kept by the private insurance company? people, not close them, and that means embracing new ways of thinking about care. Andy Burnham: That is why it is disappointing that We must also create a system that empowers and the shadow Secretary of State is not here. We cannot see enables carers to cope. The biggest challenge to carers is how a system that requires an £8,000 contribution to not the inflexibility of employers but the inflexibility of care can possibly be workable, on any basis. Indeed, on services. Their contribution must remain the bedrock of the eve of the Conservative party conference the Daily any future system of care and support. We must continue Mail had a front-page headline saying “£8,000 to save the journey started by the carers strategy to ensure the your home”. Two days later, a spokesman for the shadow provision of care services is shaped around their lives Health Secretary was saying that “top-ups might be rather than the other way round, in the same way that required”. The £8,000 figure lasted all of two or three child care and early-years support was built to help days, yet during the big care debates people have been people to balance family commitments with work using it as though it would be the extent of the contribution commitments. In other words, just as Sure Start supports that would have to be made. We cannot conduct the the child while helping parents to return to work, the debate in those terms. People have to be open and national care service can achieve the same end by helping honest about the scale of the costs, not put out misleading and empowering the individual and the family receiving figures for political purposes that then fall to bits in support. their hands, and think that they are adding to the debate. Let me move on to funding. The Green Paper sets out three clear options and gives the indicative cost that an Mr. Nigel Dodds (Belfast, North) (DUP): This issue individual would pay to fund the care service. In addition, clearly affects all parts of the United Kingdom and we are exploring a number of options to pay for the serious issues arise in relation to older folk: we have portion of basic care costs that the state would pay for heard about them being kept in their own homes by as part of our proposals. Let me reiterate that we have their family and I have experience of that happening in ruled out any suggestion that disability living allowance my constituency. Many families talk about this problem for under-65s will be brought into the national care and want to know when it is likely to be resolved. Can service. There may be a case for bringing together the Secretary of State tell us when there is likely to be an elements of some disability benefits, such as attendance indication of the way forward? In other words, how allowance, with social care funding. However, that will long are we going to have to wait, because these are be done in a way that guarantees that people receiving pressing and urgent matters? these benefits at the time of reform would continue to receive an equivalent level of support and protection under the new care service scheme. Andy Burnham: That is why I have put them at the very top of my list of priorities. There is nothing more important than building, first, momentum, and then John Mason (Glasgow, East) (SNP): May I ask the consensus around reform of the system. I agree that Secretary of State what that equivalent level of support people need to see how this will play out. I have said—I will be? Will people get care instead of money? If so, cannot say more than this—that we will have a White does that not go against what is happening in the Paper before this Parliament is dissolved, and we will Welfare Reform Bill, in which we are trying to give then take a proposal to the country on reform of the people more money so that they can spend it on the care system. I want to create an unstoppable momentum that they want? whereby there will be legislation in the next Parliament. Obviously, I cannot promise that, as it depends on Andy Burnham: The hon. Gentleman makes an important many different things. However, we should, collectively, point. We want to place at the heart of the system the make it our mission to ensure that the next Parliament control and empowerment that comes from the personal 489 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 490 budgets scheme, in many ways replicating the power Andy Burnham: My hon. Friend must think about and control that comes from direct benefits. People will not just the here and now but of what the country will want to look at the details and decide whether that look like in 2050. The modellers and forecasters predict desire has been translated into any new system, and the that by then, there will be two working-age people for test of whatever comes out of the Green Paper will be every retired person. Today, that ratio is roughly 4:1. Is whether it replicates that direct individual empowerment. he certain that payment through taxation is sustainable and fair in the long term? The question of fairness Mr. Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con): The Secretary needs to be tested over the long term, and I do not of State rules out touching the disability living allowance believe it is fair always to go to the working-age population. of those under 65 and that is welcome, but he will know People expect to pay something towards their care that nearly 1 million people over 65 get DLA. His costs, but it is not fair for them to have to pay out announcement at the conference last week will not have catastrophic levels of cost simply because they are put their minds at rest. Will he say more about whether struck down by a cruel condition such as Alzheimer’s. DLA for those over 65 is covered in the Green Paper We are seeking to end that unfairness, but any system proposals? has to be realistic and credible if it is to make progress. I mentioned attendance allowance and the importance Andy Burnham: It is important to make the point that of people receiving an equivalent level of support. We the Green Paper is not about taking away from people. must recognise that by strengthening the care service The whole proposal is to do things better for such that we provide, we will not only save lives but save people. The fact that they are receiving that benefit money and strengthen communities. Early Department means that they need significant support, and the whole of Health research indicates that a council can save thrust of what we are trying to do is improving the £1 million a year through investment in reablement, support that we can offer. about the same from telecare and more by developing We have to live in the real world, and in the current alternatives to residential care. financial climate, we cannot talk about creating a new It is apparent that if we can nip problems in the system of care and support simply by saying that everything bud—for instance, by giving an older person the support should come through taxation. That would not be a necessary to stop repeat hospital admissions—we can sustainable position for the public finances. Equally, it also save money for the NHS. If we reflect on the fact is not sustainable to say that if we are to build a fairer that falls cost the NHS £1.8 billion, there is a significant and higher-quality system of care and support, we “invest to gain” argument for better care and support. should not consider the support that we already provide, That leads me to another important point. Today’s such as the attendance allowance. The House has flinched debate must go beyond the architecture of local care from this debate for too long because it raises difficult services or the funding proposals that underpin them. questions, but if we do that again, we will let down Fundamentally, the challenge that we are discussing disabled and older people. today is part of a wider shift—a drive to build a society for all ages, creating an environment and a culture that Hywel Williams: The hon. Member for Forest of supports and empowers older and disabled people in all Dean (Mr. Harper) made a significant point about aspects of their lives, at whatever stage. DLA for over-65s, which is paid specifically for mobility needs. Some of those people have capital commitments In social care, a lot of work is under way to break with regard to those needs, for instance to Motability, down assumptions that people of a certain age need a which cause them many problems. I appreciate that this certain kind of support. The “Putting People First” is a Green Paper, but we need to make the Secretary of agenda— and with it the £500 million investment that State aware of the complexities that might arise. has gone into personalisation—is helping move councils away from the “slippers and sympathy” default position Andy Burnham: I take the hon. Gentleman’s point, towards a system that treats people as individuals and and he will have to test what comes after the Green works with them to find the right answer to their care Paper for such people, whose needs are considerable needs. The growth in personal budgets is extremely and who deserve the best support that the state can significant in that regard, and something that I want at provide. I am talking about enhancing how we look the heart of the national care service. after those people and doing more for them than we Despite that progress, however, there is still an currently can. It is understandable that talk of change is undercurrent of ageism across public services—a continued unsettling for people, but I hope that he will help us tendency to read the age rather than see the person. relay to them the message that underpins everything we That must change as this country’s demographics change. are trying to do, which is that this is about significantly That is why we have pledged to eradicate ageism in the improving how we provide care and support, not about years ahead, and why I think that it is important that cutting things, taking them away or leaving people the ban on age discrimination in the Equality Bill will without the support that they need. apply to health and social care at the same time as to other sectors—in 2012. Kelvin Hopkins: What is affordable and what is not The door is still open for discussion about the finer affordable is a political choice. I have spoken to many detail of the national care service, and that goes for my people and explained that improvements might cost, hon. Friend the Member for Luton, North, too. Those say, 1p on the standard rate of income tax. Everybody listening to the debate will have heard his strength of has said, “Hooray, we would certainly pay that.” People feeling about the matter. The Green Paper consultation want them to be paid for out of taxation, but my right will continue until next month, and the Government are hon. Friend has made the political choice that they will still listening to people’s feedback and ideas before not be. developing a White Paper next year. 491 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 492

[Andy Burnham] because of the rising cost of care fees. Indeed, the hon. Member for Luton, North (Kelvin Hopkins) made that The Minister of State has done a superb job in point. speaking up for social care and carers and in taking the However, not only the elderly depend on social services. debate forward. He deserves great credit for his work. Those with learning disabilities such as autism, the He and I want to use today’s debate to draw out further blind or partially sighted, and the physically disabled thoughts from Members of all parties to contribute to members of our society all have needs that are met the building debate about the future of social care. through social care. Those who care for the disabled I therefore return to the point with which I started. and the elderly also derive a great deal of support from We need to find a clear consensus in the House and a the social services. Carers UK estimates that there are commitment to bold and radical action. If we cannot, 4.3 million carers in the UK, with one in five carers we face the depressing prospect of not being able to having to give up work to care. It was disappointing that fulfil the standards to which we aspire for our parents the Green Paper somewhat pushed those groups into and for ourselves in our later years. We must find a the background of social care reform. better and fairer way of spreading the risk and funding care in future. I believe that a national care service, built Sarah Teather (Brent, East) (LD): The hon. Gentleman on the principles of fairness and universality, will best is making a point that I wanted to make, and the same serve our ageing society for the future. I hope that we point has been made by my local Mencap organisation. can have a good discussion today on that proposal so The Green Paper does not acknowledge that as well as that we lay the ground for legislation in the next Parliament. the likely increase in the number of elderly people, the numbers of the people with learning disabilities is likely to increase because of increased survival rates. The 2.27 pm Green Paper does not recognise that or have any answers Mr. Stephen O’Brien (Eddisbury) (Con): First, may I on funding. give a couple of apologies as a courtesy to the House? The shadow Secretary of State is obviously sorry that Mr. O’Brien: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for he is unable to be here to reply to the debate. It has been raising that point, because it was a disappointment that well known for at least several days that he is in Washington that broad area was not covered in the Green Paper. on a visit to fulfil a long-standing commitment to talk The Secretary of State referred to the Down’s syndrome to various parties and interests in the United States example, so to some degree he covered it in his remarks, about health care reform, at their invitation. It is interesting but the hon. Lady is right to highlight that absence from that we were notified formally of the Secretary of the Green Paper, which was the point that I was making. State’s presence in the debate only yesterday. When I Mencap and many others have been anxious about wrote my letter to the Speaker’s Office last week, it was whether that is a signal of an absence of commitment in to be the Minister with responsibility for care services the area, given that most people are focusing on the and I who would debate the matter. The Secretary of elderly—[Interruption.] From a sedentary position, the State’s cheap shot therefore ill befits his office. After the Minister responsible for care services, the hon. Member debate, I hope that he will question his private office to for Corby (Phil Hope), is trying to suggest that that is find out why he was not informed about the courtesy nonsense, but he may have overlooked the fact that I that was shown last week. It is sad that he raised the was replying to an intervention from a Liberal Democrat matter on the Floor of the House. and that I had not actually accused the Government of anything. He should be a little less touchy and a bit less Secondly, I am sadly unable to stay for the whole sensitive about his personal reputation, when what we debate. Again, as I wrote to Mr. Speaker last week, I need is some kind of solution for what is a very pressing have to be in Stoke-on-Trent by 7 pm for a commitment problem for many people, across all age ranges in society. that has long been in the diary and for which many people have sacrificed their time. I wish to do my best It is clear that a growing number of people in our not to let them down. Mr. Speaker kindly agreed that population interact with the social services in some way, that was wholly appropriate. Most important, and shape or form. I hope that the Secretary of State agrees demonstrating our joined-up approach, my hon. Friend that our thinking on the issue must be underpinned by the shadow Minister for disabled people will take my the acknowledgment that social care has the power place on the Front Bench for the conclusion of the either to make or to break the lives of the most vulnerable debate. in our society. Before we delve into the detail of the Green Paper, I The Secretary of State asserts, a little presumptuously, shall remind the House of the debate’s context. We are in the introduction to the Green Paper that faced with the challenge of an ageing population, whose “this is the beginning of a Big Care Debate”. needs will stretch our social care services to the limit if The Prime Minister calls for a “major debate” in his they remain unreformed. In the next 20 years, the foreword, despite having issued a similar call a year and number of over-65s will nearly double, and the number a half ago in his speech to the King’s Fund, when he aged over 100 will quadruple. The rise of dementia—the said that issue was raised by my hon. Friend the Member for “we must now look again at the options for reforming our current Rugby and Kenilworth (Jeremy Wright), who is chairman system of care and support.” of the all-party dementia group—will be especially It is therefore perhaps important to remind the Government apparent in the older population. that the debate has in fact been going on for more than Help the Aged and Age Concern estimate that 2.4 million a decade. Tony Blair made—as it turned out—the empty older people in England have care needs, and 45,000 promise to reform the social care system as far back as older people are forced to sell their homes each year 1997, when he pledged that older people would not have 493 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 494 to sell their homes to pay for their care. I am sure that rather than having yet another consultation on a that is written in stone in the Department of Health and consultation. However, I do not deny that a consultation the Secretary of State’s office. is indeed taking place. As for the proposal for a national care service, the Mr. David Anderson: Does the hon. Gentleman accept Government appear to have plucked the term out of that the debate has been going on for much more than a thin air to give the appearance of weight to the Green decade? For the two decades before this party came into Paper which might otherwise be absent, because it is so power, his party dismantled social care, promoted private void of practical detail. It is clear that by creating the care and cut billions of pounds from the care budget. illusion of a national care service, the Secretary of State—as one might expect—wants to have his cake and Mr. O’Brien: Rather than getting into a ding-dong eat it. The Government talk of a national care service, dispute about that, I shall just say that I do not accept but they want personal budgets for individuals and the hon. Gentleman’s underlying point that there were funding autonomy for local authorities, as the Secretary cuts to the budget. However, I accept that there was a of State confirmed a moment ago. The Government shift in approach. Many people were moved out of talk of service, but fail to specify exactly what kind of institutionalised care, particularly elderly people. Often, service the public will get for the uncosted £3.5 billion a inappropriate presumptions about mental health problems year commitment. Most worryingly, the Government were made and mental health problems were not properly talk of care, but threaten to cut attendance allowance diagnosed, and there was a move towards care in the and DLA for the over-65s, which would deliver a stinging community. blow to the most vulnerable in our society. There are many arguments on that and it is fair to The Green Paper proposals would be more believable say, in the light of experience, that to some degree the if they were locally costed and specific. Instead, the pendulum went too far, and we are now trying to find a Green Paper waxes lyrical about options for reform new balance. There is a difference between wanting to without giving the country the road map it so desperately preserve people’s independence and dignity and their needs. Given that the need for joined-up care services ability to remain in their own homes with a certain was drummed home no fewer than 40 times in the quality of life, and wanting to preserve and maintain Green Paper, it is extraordinary that the Government the dignity and appropriate care of those who on proper have not felt the need to demonstrate a joined-up approach criteria need long-term residential care, particularly as in their own proposals. Instead, what we have witnessed they move towards the end of their lives. over the past two months is a quick succession of U-turns and botched announcements. Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind): Does the hon. Gentleman First, we had the surprise pledge from the Prime agree that the assessment of continuing care needs Minister himself in his conference speech about the funding is a real problem for people who leave hospital provision of free personal care for those with the highest and go into residential care, for instance following a needs living at home. It is as yet unclear how that stroke? The Government really need to put out stronger proposal relates to the Green Paper or where the money advice and guidance for health authorities to ensure to provide that care will come from. The Prime Minister that people’s health needs are funded. has specified a sizeable commitment of £670 million a year to provide 350,000 people with the highest needs Mr. O’Brien: The hon. Gentleman makes a point with free home care, and the Secretary of State described about health needs, and some 30,000 people are under that a few moments ago as a “staging post”. But his NHS continuing care, which is of course provided. The Ministers were unable to answer our inquiry about difficulty is the assessment criteria and the absence, at which budgets that money would be taken from and the moment, of a sufficient number of intermediate and how the figure of 350,000 individuals had been rehabilitation places, which are especially useful for reached, as recorded in Hansard at column 809W on those who need continuing care, whether in the national 13 October 2009. health system or as they move across into the social Can the Secretary of State clarify the connection services care system, which is of course differently between the announcement by the Prime Minister and funded and has different consequences. Above all, if we the Green Paper, and can he offer any further insight had sufficient places, it would help to remove to some into the funding of the Prime Minister’s pledge? There degree the crisis and emergency aspect that characterises are still no details of the Prime Minister’s policy on the so much of the problem as people try to find an Department’s website. That, in itself, is of some interest, available bed rather than a place in a care home—if because any of us who take an interest in such care appropriate under proper assessment criteria—that is issues will have been struck by the Secretary of State’s suitable to the person’s needs. effusive response to the Green Paper, compared with The elderly, and all those in need of care, are unlikely the somewhat taciturn reaction to the Prime Minister’s to be fooled by any Government who claim that they home care scheme. No one, however, has been remotely are setting the agenda on this issue. Indeed, the hon. forthcoming about the numbers behind the scheme, Member for Blaydon (Mr. Anderson) made the point leaving everybody questioning where the money will that this is an issue that has been under discussion for come from. decades. Promising a “big care debate” may sound Given the Secretary of State’s exchanges with the good, but what people are really looking for is decisive hon. Member for Luton, North, who is no longer in his action. As I will outline, my party has made some place, it is a little odd, and inconsistent, that the Prime important decisions, and I hope that it will be recognised Minister’s scheme is to be funded—so it is claimed—through that it is the Government—who have issued a Green general taxation. However, the Secretary of State said Paper—who need to be pressed to make decisions, that it is not possible in such areas to consider general 495 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 496

[Mr. Stephen O’Brien] in our view it is not the way forward. Unlike the Government, who are trying to create the impression of taxation as an option for what has been proposed under a national approach to social care, by nationalising it in the scope of the Green Paper. That inconsistency needs effect, we believe that personalisation is the right path to be clarified and explained. to take. Attendance allowance is one way for people to The Secretary of State seemed to take his queue from commission informal care services. If we were to back the Prime Minister’s new-found spontaneity last week. the Government’s approach, more and more of those The former announced out of the blue that, rather than informal care arrangements would have to be made dissolving the disability living allowance into local authority formal through local authorities. That would be costly budgets, as the Green Paper had implied, he would keep and restrictive for those at the receiving end of care. the DLA. That was in spite of the statement made early Although we will continue to examine the evidence, a last week in the other place by the Under-Secretary of retreat back to the state as the sole provider might State for Work and Pensions, the noble Lord McKenzie restrict the flow of funding into front-line care. In a of Luton. He said that the Government were looking at society where individuals are often the experts in their “all disability benefits” for dissolution into the national own care needs, that would surely be a step backwards. care service. On top of those concerns about disability benefits, Will the Secretary of State clarify whether the attendance older people continue to worry about whether they will allowance will stay or go? He did not do so when he was have to sell their homes to pay for their long-term care. on his feet a few moments ago. This point is exercising That is a feature that Tony Blair himself mentioned in a many people in all parts of the country, and not just in promise in 1997—a promise that has not been delivered England. under this Government. Instead, the Green Paper revealed a loose preference for a partnership model for social Angela Browning: Is my hon. Friend as concerned as I care, whereby the state would pay for a set proportion am about another benefit—in addition to the ones that of each individual’s care fees. It is worth mentioning he has mentioned—on which I have received requests that the partnership model was discussed in detail in from constituents: quite an old benefit called the severe the 2006 review by Derek Wanless—a review that the disablement allowance, which is still recognised? It is Government refused to commission and which has been usually a lifelong benefit for people with lifelong learning on the table for debate for more than three years. It is disabilities. Is that, too, on the table? only now that the Government have chosen to explore its implications. Mr. O’Brien: I am most grateful to my hon. Friend, because that could impact greatly on those in receipt of I have some concerns about the Government’s proposals the benefit. We require clarity because we are dealing for a partnership model of care. First, the Green Paper with people who have arranged their lives completely, states that having often struggled to have their needs recognised, “everyone who qualified for care and support from the state and who now need to know that that level of support would be entitled to have a set proportion—for example, a quarter or a third—of their basic care and support costs paid for will not be removed. We need clarification, therefore, on by the state.” the attendance allowance and certainly on the SDA. However, there is no guidance on how individuals qualify If the Secretary of State has decided to axe those—he for that subsidy and no firm pledge to provide a specific sought to suggest that there would be an underpinning proportion of funding. In their answer to our parliamentary guarantee, but again he did not specify how it would be questions on the issue, the Government could confirm put in place—what measure does he intend to take to only that there would be no new money involved and protect the care of those most dependent on the allowance? that His U-turn on the disability living allowance has come “Costs would be met from within the public spending envelope as a welcome relief—I do not deny it—to many with set for future spending reviews”.—[Official Report, 12 October disabilities. It was much needed because there really was 2009; Vol. 497, c. 758W.] distress. It also came as a welcome relief to their carers How can we trust the Government to deliver on reform and advocates. However, the Government continue to when they leave the public playing guessing games keep people over 65 in the dark about whether their about the funding of their proposals? DLA will be under threat and whether the attendance allowance remains under threat. By the Government’s own admission, older people want security, dignity and independence for as long as If the Secretary of State wishes to offer an explanation, possible. Everyone wants to be able to plan and save for I will be more than happy to take an intervention. their own care needs, but at present the public stand no Otherwise, it must be taken that there is no guarantee chance of being able to anticipate whether they will be that the DLA will remain for those over 65. His decision able to afford the cost of care. The Government have let to discard some of the benefits is bafflingly contradictory. our elderly down through their lack of detail. The other He claims that he wants to give more responsibility to serious question hanging over the Government’s proposal individuals through personal budgets, and yet he takes is their failure to deal with the accommodation and this responsibility away again by threatening to cut food costs of long-term care. Those hidden costs often disability benefits. How can we move towards a more prove to be the most crippling for older people, as they personalised care agenda if he is not prepared to trust move from their own homes to a residential setting. individuals with benefits designed to offer more choice and control over the services that they receive? That is Andy Burnham: The hon. Gentleman accuses us of a fundamental to how we need to move forward. lack of detail, but let me put a direct question to him. To be clear, I say officially, as it were, from this Does he still stand by the £8,000 figure that he and his Dispatch Box that we have said that we will oppose any colleagues put forward on the eve of the Conservative plan to cut and redistribute attendance allowance, because party conference? 497 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 498

Mr. O’Brien: I am coming to that in detail. I am sure Mr. O’Brien: I was right. The right hon. Gentleman is that the Secretary of State will be pleased to hear my trying to read out the criticisms that those who are clarification of an absolutely superb policy that is now rather embarrassed that they have not been able to being much welcomed by those who care to understand attack our proposal successfully are now trying to peddle. it, in contrast to the rather disappointing tribal political The truth is that I am about to come to that very point. ping-pong with which he tried to de-dignify his speech Let me just make sure that the home protection earlier. scheme is understood. The whole point is that it is part It is enough for older people to make the transition to of the overall approach to care, which has to include long-term care without having to worry that their most domiciliary care, which is not addressed by the right basic needs, such as food and accommodation, may not hon. Gentleman’s own proposals. The firm guarantee is be taken into account when they undergo a means test. that our home protection scheme would offer every The Secretary of State has tempted me to move person the chance to protect their assets and guarantee straight on to the next part of my speech. Whereas the their care through the option of an one-off payment of Government’s Green Paper offers no firm guarantee around £8,000. All care fees would then be waived for that every individual will be able to access care in old life, should the individual ever need long-term residential age, the Conservatives have already placed a large and, I care. Unlike the Government’s partnership model, this would argue, innovative brick in the wall of social care single lump sum, paid for at the age of 65, would cover reform. Our home protection scheme will enable older not only care but food and lodging. people to keep their homes and guarantee their care in The scheme would also be self-financing, an important older age. Our policy will deliver on the promise that factor to consider, given the public deficit. The Government Tony Blair made, but failed to keep, more than 11 years might be refusing to be up front about the funding of ago. We are looking to build on that policy by rigorously their partnership model, but the Conservatives are giving examining the options for domiciliary care, so that careful thought to the ways in which we can both older people can preserve their independence for as steward the public finances and deliver long-term care long as possible. to those who need it. The Government’s own insurance Despite what the Secretary of State said, picking up model would be priced at £20,000—an unrealistic saving on some of the rather less informed comment from goal for the individual—compared with our £8,000 when the scheme was put forward, let me make it clear option, which has been verified by a leading actuarial that there will be no perverse incentive or adverse firm and welcomed by Aviva and the Association of selection, because access to residential care via a local British Insurers. If the Secretary of State wants to study authority will be based on assessments of need alone. the quotes from the ABI, which has looked at this We will ensure that, as well as ensuring consistency, by proposal extensively, I would be more than happy to putting in place proper national assessment criteria, so pass them over to him. the point about perverse incentives is simply not valid. Mr. Burstow: I just want to make sure that I fully Mr. David Anderson: Surely that is what happens understand the proposal that the hon. Gentleman is now. People are assessed for need by the local authority, setting out before the House today. Did he use the term but when they need to go in to a care home they refuse “domiciliary care” in the context of the package that he to, because they do not want to. When the scheme is is proposing? In other words, will domiciliary care be introduced, there will be an incentive for people to go in covered by the scheme? If not, how will it be covered? to care because they will keep their homes, so if they are Do the Conservatives have a plan for that? assessed for need, they will go in. Mr. O’Brien: If the hon. Gentleman will be patient Mr. O’Brien: The hon. Gentleman seems to for a second, he will hear about that. This proposal does misunderstand that we all agree across the House that, not cover domiciliary care. This is to address the above all other things, older people want to maintain Government’s failure— their independence, dignity and so forth as best they can. There are no people sitting out there thinking, “I Mr. Burstow: Precisely: it does not cover domiciliary must rush into a residential care home.” It is only when care. the need requires it that it happens, although the local authority might have no incentive to meet that need Mr. O’Brien: It does not cover domiciliary care. It because of capacity issues. covers the Government’s failure to honour the promise Andy Burnham: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? given by Tony Blair as part of his attempt to get elected in 1997. People are fearful about having to sell their Mr. O’Brien: I would like to move on. I think that I homes when they have to go into residential care, and am about to answer the Secretary of State’s question, that is what we have at last addressed. which I can anticipate, because his questions have so far Let me get on to the other point, which is obviously only been about somebody else’s brief. important, and let me make sure that this is fully understood. The Government’s partnership model would Andy Burnham: The hon. Gentleman just said that require every person who believed that they were in there was consensus that people want to keep their need of care to undergo a means test. Our approach is independence and stay in their own homes. My open to everyone, regardless of their financial circumstances. understanding is that his proposal would offer no additional State-funded care would still be available to those on help to people to do that, so how can he stand there and low incomes, but the majority of people who do not make that statement? The only support would go to qualify for state-funded care would have the option of people who moved into residential care. guaranteeing that their residential care needs would be 499 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 500

[Mr. Stephen O’Brien] Telecare is the key to giving patients and families the peace of mind to maintain an independent lifestyle. It met at an affordable cost. At present, all the costs of provides them with a technology-based system of local elderly residential care must be met by the individual if monitoring, which identifies risk and monitors need they own just £23,000 or more in assets, including the without the use of costly or intrusive observation. A value of their home. Our home protection scheme would telecare scheme in north-west Surrey showed that this enable everyone to access affordable care. sort of preventive technology could reduce the number The affordability of our scheme is based on the of people entering residential care by 11 per cent. in a principle of sharing the risks together. We want to single year. In Scotland, a new programme provided to encourage the public to begin to pool their risk of 7,900 older people last year achieved savings of £11 million entering long-term care, so that the cost of care for and significant improvements in self-reported quality of those who need it is lowered. I note that the Secretary of life for both elderly people and carers. For too many State has now disappeared; he obviously does not like elderly people in too many areas, these services are not my answer. An analysis of data from the NHS Information on offer. Centre suggests that one in seven people will eventually enter long-term care. The Personal Social Services Research Sarah Teather: I am struck by the hon. Gentleman’s Unit has made a series of projections regarding the comments and my reading of a section of the Green future cost of care from the current figure of £26,000. Paper reminds me of some important issues raised by a An analysis of these data, carried out in consultation local Age Concern group in my constituency. It pointed with the King’s Fund and with actuarial experts, has led out that prevention is not just about the practical issues, us to the premium price of around £8,000. as it is often about emotional support. That is what allows people to live independently. Depression is often It is highly unusual, wholly welcome and totally unreported in elderly people. Day care services, visiting transparent for an Opposition party to lay out a proposal services and listening ears, with people making face-to-face in such detail, and those who have scrutinised it have visits, are just as important as the really practical things. clearly been unable to pick holes in it. This demonstrates that we have imaginatively addressed a problem that the Government, led by a Prime Minister who never delivered Mr. O’Brien: I could not agree more with the hon. on his 1997 promise, have signally failed to address. Lady. Any of us familiar with these issues in our own That failure has resulted in people with more than families are fully aware that the contact of counsellors £23,000 of assets remaining fearful that they would or other people of good will—perhaps those with some have to sell everything in order to pay for the residential professional abilities not just to be good listeners, but care that they need. advisers who can hold people’s hands through the labyrinthine process of accessing their necessary support As has already been said in the debate, when it comes and care needs—is just as vital for the mental and to care, we realise that we need to fight the cause before emotional stability of elderly people. I understand absolutely we reach the crisis. Prevention is always better than the views expressed by that local group and those costly cure. The hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam requirements must be met as part of the domiciliary (Mr. Burstow), who is just leaving the Chamber raised care package. the point, so he might have waited for the answer. Everything must be people-focused. That is why, in addition to the telecare that I mentioned, we need to look at home adaptations, which allow people’s living environments to be tailored to their care Sarah Teather: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? needs so that injuries are prevented and people can stay in their homes for longer. Around half of people over Mr. O’Brien: I am answering the intervention by her 80 have a fall at least once a year, many occurring in the hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam, who home. Many of those falls are easily preventable with has just chosen to leave the Chamber at the very moment the right home adaptations in place. the answer is being given. The final important group to consider is carers. Despite Public health has been neglected under this Government: the vital work they do in caring for relatives and friends, budgets have been raided and specialist staff have been our carers have suffered from serious neglect. Last year, cut, so they cannot begin to talk of joined-up health the Prime Minister himself pledge £150 million for the and social care services until they view public health as carers strategy, with £50 million to be disbursed this a priority. Under a Conservative Government, a new financial year, mainly to support respite care. Only two priority will be given to public health reform. There will weeks ago, as the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam be a Secretary of State for public health, and local mentioned, the Princess Royal Trust for Carers reported directors of public health with the power to allocate that up to £40 million of it has gone missing—soaked independent ring-fenced—I emphasise ring-fenced— up in local primary care trust bureaucracy. The Secretary budgets to make effective interventions across the health, of State’s answer is that we MPs should press our PCTs local government and social housing sectors to promote on that, as it is not for him to impose from the top. independent living for elderly people. When central money is being used to spur action, it is While the Government want to standardise care through vital to know where that money has gone and to have their national care service, we want to personalise it. We some means to account for it. have our sights set on two areas of technology where The Green Paper makes little mention of carers’ local directors of public health will be able to use public needs or the problems of the funding system, so it is health budgets to deliver support systems to enable time for a change of approach. In his very first statement people to live independently in their own homes and of Conservative aims and values in a document called reduce the need for costly, complex interventions. “Built to Last”, my right hon. Friend the Member for 501 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 502

Witney (Mr. Cameron), the Leader of the Opposition Our home protection scheme and our plan for home committed to better rights to flexible working and adaptations will offer older people security and certainty respite care for carers. Again, it is a matter of giving in old age. The Government’s uncosted proposals place people more independence and freedom over their use an unprecedented burden on our public finances, whereas of social services so that we as a country and the we will confront the issues of funding head on. They Government in office provide public services that are have chosen to prolong the status quo, whereas we will responsive to people’s needs and preferences rather choose the necessary change. than just being a “system”. I hope that the Government will realise that consensus We know that local authority investment in home would be better than this, but until they invite us in, we adaptation primarily benefits the NHS through reduced must continue to make our arguments and make them hospital admission costs and it benefits individuals by strongly. providing security in the home. We know that NHS 3.2 pm investment in telecare benefits local authorities by reducing their domiciliary care costs and it enables individuals to Malcolm Wicks (Croydon, North) (Lab): It is a pleasure have greater involvement in their care. We also want to to serve under your chairmanship, Madam Deputy know why these projects are not being more widely Speaker, not least because of your long-standing experience, encouraged and promoted. The Commission for Social interest and indeed work in this area. Care Inspection’s final report found that innovative I want to present a brief analysis of why the issue that solutions such as joint council-NHS commissioning we are debating is so vital to us, and why it is so vital for and the use of personal budgeting were still the us to crack it in an appropriate way, in the next Parliament “exception rather than the norm”. at the latest. I also want to make some comments on the proposals in the Green Paper, which I hope Ministers We will require PCTs to promote joint working with will accept as constructive criticism. local authorities, which will mean budget-pooling and joint commissioning. When the prize is independence, The issue of what we now call social care—whether it security and dignity for our elderly population and involves younger people with disabilities of various peace of mind for relatives, the bureaucratic barriers kinds or suffering from mental ill health, including that stand in the way must be removed. That would also schizophrenia, or whether, as is more common, it involves help to deliver on the quality agenda mentioned by my the care of frail elderly people—is one of those issues in hon. Friend the Member for Rugby and Kenilworth in politics which are much more a matter for people’s an earlier intervention. agendas and family discussions than a matter for what we often call the political class. It is far more important These are the final questions that the Secretary of than Governments and Parliaments have given it credit State must answer. What action will the Government for over the past 20 years. Within the extended families take in response to the consultation that ends on of which we are so well aware, there will be extensive 13 November? When will we see a decisive and realistic discussions and great concern about, for instance, what route forward? When will the White Paper be published, will happen to a person with Down’s syndrome when other than just before the next general election, which she is no longer a child but is becoming an adult. More must take place by June next year? May we have a typically, there may be concern about someone with specific date? The Green Paper alludes to the creation dementia, perhaps Alzheimer’s, when residential care of another quango, an independent organisation to looms. There may be serious problems involving mental advise the Government on the provision of care and ill health, often affecting remarkably young men, and I support. How would that organisation be funded, and mentioned schizophrenia earlier. It is about time that what exactly would its role be? When will the action Parliament and Government got a grip on the issue plan to examine developments in the social care work because people “out there” are concerned about it and force be published? are impatient for action. Within that, the financing of Above all—we have often said that this would be very long-term care is most obviously the unfinished business welcome—when will the Government, rather than engaging of the post-war welfare state. We need to sort this out in in what is often rather disappointing ping-pong across the next Parliament. the Dispatch Box and elsewhere, invite any Member of Much has been said about the ageing of our population. the Opposition to go into their office and talk to them, Reflecting on this for the first time in a few years, given even if it has to be on private terms, as an earnest of the other interests that I have been pursuing, I think that attempts that they say they are making to build a there are three trends in terms of the ageing population, consensus? So far no such invitation has been offered, not just two. One is the ageing of the whole population. although we have made clear that we are open to We can cite the ratios between those of working age and discussion on what kind of consensus might be built. those who are retired and we have known about them Given that that has worked to a degree in the pensions for a long time. We have also known for a long time arena, there is no reason why it should not work in the about the second phenomenon, namely the ageing of social care arena, but it takes a willing Government to the elderly population. It is not so much an issue about cease to be tribal and try to build a genuine consensus. those in their 60s or 70s; they may well be an issue for The question facing the public is a simple one. Can the pensions debate. But more people are living into the Government be trusted to deliver social care reform their late 70s and 80s, which is why this is a crucial area that is so desperately needed? The answer is also simple. for health and social care. The Government’s threatened actions will threaten the In 2008 there were almost 2.8 million people aged most vulnerable, whereas we will oppose any measures 80 or over. By 2018, it will be 3.5 million. By 2033, to cut attendance allowance. Their inaction on residential according to Office for National Statistics estimates, it care will loosen the grip of every older person on his or could be as many as 5.7 million people, which will be her assets and home, which is a real fear for such people. about 8 per cent. of the population. 503 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 504

[Malcolm Wicks] sons and daughters and all the rest of the family and friends and neighbours who become what we now refer There is also a third trend that we should note: the to as the carers. ageing of the very elderly population. Far more people The Green Paper is an important document, and the will now live into their 90s and far more will get the fact that the Secretary of State is here sends a signal equivalent of the Queen’s telegram—given the demography, about the seriousness of the issue it addresses, because, it could be from the Queen herself—in ten or 20 years’ regardless of what it says on the plaque in Whitehall, he time. In 2008 there were 97,000 people aged over 95. By is actually the head of a Department of health and 2033—not so far away—there could be 464,000 people social care. That is the reality. For too long, the care bit over the age of 95, representing about a fivefold increase has been merely one division, although an important during that relatively brief period. one, of a great Department. It is often the big health We need to think carefully about the “so what?” issues—sometimes crises—that take up all the attention. question: what are the implications of this? I have I am therefore pleased that the Secretary of State is always thought that we should not immediately get into giving so much attention to this other area. My comments a debate about frailty, health care and social care when are offered in the spirit of constructive criticism, and I we speak about demography. We should applaud the am sure that he and his Ministers will take them in that fact that we now live in a society in which people will way—although they have not heard them all yet. have a decent lifespan. I remember my professor at the The Green Paper makes some important comments LSE, the great Richard Titmuss, writing an essay about on entitlement. It acknowledges a truth that is universally why we thought of the “problem”of ageing. The problem, observed by us: that there are great variations across the he thought, was when people died in infancy or before country, from local authority to local authority, in the they could retire. There is an ageism in society that we provision of care. As it says, that is not good enough. need to confront and there is a paradox: as our population We need to move towards a greater system of universal grows more elderly, ageism becomes more rife. We need entitlement, so that if people move—as they often do to confront that ism. when they are frail—they will not find a totally different However, we must acknowledge a grim reality—that system in the new area from the one they were used to. I of the correlation, although not an inevitable one, between say that because people do not like the idea of a disabilities and illnesses of different kinds and an ageing postcode lottery. In some of our debates on these kinds society. There are different indicators in terms of different of topics there is a fashion for localism. I am not conditions and different levels of mental and physical against localism in terms of innovation, trying out disability.Let me give one indicator in relation to dementia. different things and responding to particular local needs, Research from the Alzheimer’s Society, of which I have but in this sphere we need to blend the concept of the pleasure to be a vice-president, shows that there are localism with that of national entitlement. 700,000 people with dementia in the UK today. Of The Green Paper contains some interesting proposals those, 62 per cent. are thought to have Alzheimer’s on assessment. Page 10 states: disease itself but, given the figures I have mentioned “You will only need to have one assessment of your needs to and the growing numbers of elderly people, the society gain access to a whole range of care and support services.” estimates that by 2021 the total number with dementia in the UK could be 940,000, or almost 1 million people. I welcome that, and I ask the Minister who will respond The number could rise again to 1.7 million by 2051, and to the debate to say more about it. How broadly might that is one of the reasons why we need to pursue the that assessment range? When I was Minister with science and research on Alzheimer’s: to see whether, responsibility for pensions, based in the building in with this illness, as with so many others, the scientific which the Minister lives and works—I suspect he lives and medical communities can start to make an impact. there for a lot of the time, and he certainly works However, that one indicator shows the seriousness of there—we were developing and rolling out the new the issue we are talking about today. Pension Service, including, importantly, the local pension service that performs so many domiciliary visits and The figures I have just cited mean that in all of our assessments of not just the obvious things, such as constituencies there will be many hundreds of our pension credit issues, but energy efficiency programmes citizens with dementias of different kinds. The Alzheimer’s and so on. I do not want to push this too far because Society estimate for my constituency is that some 900 people people need expertise to conduct assessments in the are suffering from dementia. For those who reach the field of social care, but has the Minister been in talks age of 80 or over, there is a one in five risk of dementia. with the Pension Service and the Minister with responsibility That illustrates the scale of the problem. That level of for pensions to see whether there could be a more risk raises issues in respect of how we insure against joined-up approach to these assessments? One of the this, and gets us into the debate about the financial problems in this field is that once the welfare state is options, which I will come on to shortly. introduced into the life of someone with great frailty, there can simply be too many assessments, so could he There are huge implications for all of us in the say more about that? demography and the epidemiology of some of these issues. There are certainly huge implications for social policy and public spending. I doubt whether we can Hywel Williams: The principle behind the assessments seek to constrain public spending in this area over the for attendance allowance and disability living allowance next five or 10 years; if we are to match the scale of the is self-assessment, in that the applicant fills in the form. need, it obviously has to be increased. There are also Presumably, any new system would require the involvement huge implications for families and extended families, of some professional help, so there might be a difference and particularly for those husbands and wives or partners, in principle in any new system. 505 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 506

Malcolm Wicks: That is an interesting and difficult of that and my hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury point. When people can simply provide information by (Mr. O’Brien) spoke about it forcefully. It is one option, themselves or with the help of a relative, through a whereby we would make more of the money from computer, that is often convenient, but a fellow human different funding sources—from different Departments—go being will often be needed to assess a situation properly. into the hands of the individuals, and those individuals The Minister will doubtless be able to respond to that would then spend it. That might be the most successful point when he addresses my related point. way to join up effectively the services that they receive My second point deals with effective care in the and the outcomes they obtain. community—or home support. I shall discuss residential care in a moment. We all know—we have touched on Malcolm Wicks: I agree with the hon. Gentleman this in the discussion about assessments—that we need that that is one way through this. We could use to address issues associated with housing, which are so empowerment, by giving more of a say—more of the crucial in effective community care, with social service budget—to the individual herself or himself. Another support, with health support and with other forms of way through would be to be more radical about trying support. As something of a student of these things, I to pool budgets across agencies. Some such pooling noticed that the Green Paper says that we need more goes on in health and social care. I think that the joined-up working. We all put our hands up to agree Cabinet Secretary, Sir Gus O’Donnell has recently spoken with that. It states: about that happening at a more macro-level, and it is an “One way of doing this is through better joined-up working interesting idea. In other words, instead of public spending between health, housing and social care services and between simply relating to the Whitehall furniture or the local social care and the disability benefits system.” furniture of Departments and so on, we say, “Here is a It continues rather boldly by stating: larger sum of money than we provide at the moment to “Services will be fully joined up between the NHS and the new crack this problem.” We need to experiment with that in National Care Service.” the future as we enter difficult times with public expenditure in a range of areas. I want the Minister to comment on The following paragraph states: this. The issue about joined-up working, which an earlier “This does not necessarily need to involve structural change.” Labour Government called the joint approach to social I do not believe that it does, but will the Minister say policy—everyone has had a go at trying to make it more about that? work—is that achieving it is like finding the holy grail. I suppose that I am trying to put the Minister on the It is very difficult but well worth the effort. spot, but I do so seriously. If I had had time, Madam My third point is about carers. We have all acknowledged Deputy Speaker—you will be aware of some of this their importance. There are nearly 5 million to 6 million documentation—I would have been able to find similar of them, some caring, I am almost tempted to say, too phrases in important state documents about health and much. Some are caring almost around the clock—and social care going back at least 30 years. I would probably some for more than 50 hours—until sometimes they find such statements even in the White Paper on growing drop because the fatigue and stress are too much. I want old produced by a previous Conservative Government. gently to say to the Ministers that I think the provisions I know, as a student of this subject and from my in the Green Paper on the treatment of carers are a bit ministerial experience, that it is one thing for the civil feeble. It looks to me a bit like they have been added service to draft such fine prose and for Ministers to on—when I was a civil servant in the Home Office many recite it—I have done that myself—but it is very difficult years ago, somebody referred to it as “joining up with a to make it happen in practice. This is the old story staple,” although I think that there are now electronic about the lever being pulled in Whitehall and sometimes ways of joining up a document. I was disappointed that our assuming that things are happening in the locality carers were not more central to the analysis. I know that when that is not necessarily true. the Government have done a great deal on carers—more There is now lots of super practice of joined-up than any other Government—and that there has been a work, particularly between the health and social services, recent statement on the issue, but I would like to have on which to draw. However, I wish briefly to detail my seen the subject more central to the analysis, because experience as an Education Minister, when my Government the choices about how to provide care and the difficult introduced the Connexions service. I remember talking decisions about residential care are ones that the carer to my hon. Friend the Member for Corby (Phil Hope)—he and the wider family have to take as well as the cared-for is a Minister now, but he was a Back Bencher then—about person. that. I waxed lyrical about the importance of the I am not sure whether the Green Paper mentioned Connexions service for young people and about how we carer’s assessments at all—if it did, forgive me, but they were going to overcome barriers and join up agencies. certainly were not central to it. I speak with a vested Did that happen in the field? Sometimes it did, but interest as the promoter under a Conservative Government often it did not. I challenge the Minister, in a friendly of a private Member’s Bill that became the Carers way, to prove to me that his fine prose is not just the (Recognition and Services) Act 1995—the first Act, usual fine prose and that the Department has serious with all-party support, to enable the carer to have her or ideas on how its approach will work in future. his own needs assessed. That is important and we should have heard something about it in the Green Mr. Harper: I share the right hon. Gentleman’s scepticism Paper. about how easy it is to join things up. I do not know On carers, may I also pick up another important issue much thought he has given to this, but does he think that is mentioned? Perhaps increasingly—and certainly that one way of doing that might be through the numerically—lots of carers are workers and employees. personalisation agenda? The Government are in favour We have heard how they might also be parents or 507 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 508

[Malcolm Wicks] The Secretary of State talked about Beveridge, but I thought that, for my colleagues who are students of grandparents. That all adds to the busyness of the life Beveridge, he was getting into trouble. After all, when of the British carer. The Government have done a lot in Beveridge studied the risks and needs facing society terms of what some people might call the work-life then, and the likely risks and needs in the future, he balance—or the employment-care balance—and I urge thought that they were essentially insurable. One had a the Department of Health to push at that door. There real risk—if I can use the world “risk”—of becoming will always be at least one other Department, which I old, so one needed a retirement pension. There was know quite well, that will resist that, urged on by certain always the risk of unemployment, sickness and death, business interests, but we need to recognise that a modern so a social insurance system was the fairest way ahead. economy and a modern society has to allow for the fact I look at those on the Liberal Benches and wonder, that people have a dual role as workers or parents of “May I refer to Beveridge as the last great Liberal?” young children while also caring for elderly parents. [Interruption.] I am glad that they are still awake. He Some 3 million people combine work and care and I am was certainly a great Liberal, and my guess is that, if advised by the statisticians that that is some 12 per cent. back then the demography was going to mean that huge of our work force. It is no mean issue. numbers of people faced frailty, he would have wrapped Finally, I want to talk about the most difficult issue, up care in his social insurance system. I do not really which is the financing of long-term care. I have referred understand Ministers’ argument that to do so now to it, not terribly originally—others have called it this—as would be a burden on employees. Yes, it would, and I the obvious unfinished business of the modern welfare understand the immediate argument that many constituents state. We had a royal commission some 10 years ago, feel they pay too much tax, and that there are burdens. and a minority report was produced. It was an interesting We would therefore have to be careful, but, before we document, but, to be blunt, the Government then parked say that employees should not have to carry that burden, it in the “too difficult” box. I am pleased that these we should note that they do so with pensions. Otherwise, Ministers are returning to it—[HON.MEMBERS: “Or the argument would amount to an attack on our pension going.”] I see that the Secretary of State is leaving—it is arrangements. I suppose that national insurance is really not that difficult an issue. However, I know that Secretaries how we pay for our national health service, too. of State have many things in their crowded diaries. I therefore urge the Government to reopen that idea, Government and Parliament may have found the issue as an option, because it is a serious one. After all, the too difficult, but avoiding it actually left the people Secretary of State talked about the current economic needing care and the carers themselves facing difficulties. difficulties, but we are presumably trying to fashion a Some of that care is difficult, and some of the issues system that is fit for purpose for 30, 40 or 50 years. that those people face are difficult, but, unlike Parliaments Beveridge, in 1942, and those who became the Labour and Governments, they have not been able to avoid Government in 1945 had the vision and the courage to them for 10 years. go for a, no doubt, expensive welfare state based around On the Green Paper’s analysis of financing long-term social insurance—and that was in 1942, when we had care, my assessment is, two cheers for the Green Paper. some economic difficulties and, if I remember my history, It advances the debate, and one option could see us some difficulties with our European partners at that through into the future. However, I must echo what one time. So are we really saying that, at the beginning of or two colleagues from all parts of the House have said. the 21st century, that idea is too difficult even to consider As a Daily Mail columnist might ask, “Why, oh why as a proper option? have you rejected what you call the taxation option?” I simply do not understand. Although I would not advocate Kelvin Hopkins: I very much agree with what my right a taxation option, I would look seriously at the pros hon. Friend is saying. I think that Beveridge, or the and, no doubt, cons of a social insurance option—or National Insurance Act 1948, set capital limits on what we now call a national insurance option. ownership. However, the amount of capital that someone To dangle that option before the public, while talking had to have was, in today’s terms, absolutely enormous, about its advantages and how many people rather like so it covered only a tiny fraction of the richest parts of it, but then to reject it, was, to be honest, slightly the population. If that were applied today, everyone strange. On page 116, however, the Green Paper states: would accept it; the problem is that the capital limits are far too low and affect millions of ordinary people. “During the engagement process, many people told us that they thought an NHS-style system, where the full costs of care and support were met through taxation…would be the fairest Malcolm Wicks: Yes, that is helpful. Going for a option.” social insurance option would not necessarily guarantee It goes on: universal free care—a proportion could still be affected under the kind of arrangement that my hon. Friend has “This would require a significant increase in the tax… For this reason we have ruled out this option.” advocated. If we are consulting and thinking this through for a White Paper, that option should be there on the Then, unless I have misunderstood the sequence of the table. Green Paper, it states: “The advantage of this system is that it would be universal, Hywel Williams rose— and would probably be the simplest and most easily understandable way of funding care and support.” Malcolm Wicks: I am happy to give way, but I must It is almost as if two hands wrote that section of the conclude soon to let others speak. Green Paper, and I am bound to say that I see the cold, grey hand of the Treasury all over it. That option Hywel Williams: I am grateful to the right hon. should not necessarily be the way ahead, but it requires Gentleman. He referred to taxation paying for pensions. serious study. This is not just a matter of practicality—there is something 509 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 510 more fundamental to do with that terrible phrase, “cross- Finally, following the Prime Minister’s statement at generational solidarity.” That point is in danger of the Labour party conference, which I welcomed, about being lost, I think. free home care for those in the most critical need—I think that was the phrase—can the Minister say more Malcolm Wicks: Of course. Unlike the era of Beveridge about that? How does it relate to residential care? If and another great Liberal—I am being polite today— somebody was getting free home care during their final [Interruption.] I am referring to Lloyd George; this is, months at home, and then the time came when they after all, the centenary of his introducing the old age needed to go into residential care, perhaps for only a pension, is it not? [Interruption.] Perhaps we could few months before coming back home or perhaps for have a Lib-Lab pact—you never know. ever, would that free care go with them? If not, would not a new unfairness be created there? Mr. Stephen O’Brien: The hon. Gentleman is not a I am grateful to the House for its patience. Liberal. 3.35 pm Malcolm Wicks: Well, he is a liberal with a small “l”. Unlike that era, we are now, demographically, in a Greg Mulholland (Leeds, North-West) (LD): I am situation where people might not only be retired for pleased to take part in the debate, and after the rather 30 or so years of their lives but, because of developments bad-tempered exchange at the Dispatch Box, I shall in higher and further education, be in education for make it clear that I was asked speak on behalf of my 20 or 25 years. The issue that we are confronting is how party today and am very happy to do so. I am not to afford all the things we want in our social policies—both apologising for anybody, and I will be here for the when people are young and when they are old—given beginning, middle and end of the debate, although I that their working life will probably be only half their might pop out for a cup of tea a little later if permitted. lifespan. Therefore, the idea that one way or another we Here we are once again talking about the hugely should set aside more money during our working lives, important national issue of social care—talking again, whether through social insurance, private insurance or rather than discussing concrete policies. Therein lies the whatever, to pay for frailty, is not such an extraordinary frustration with how it has been handled over the past one. four years and indeed over the past few Parliaments. I I want to comment briefly on the two options in the will say one thing for the Government, which is that the Green Paper. First is the insurance option whereby, if I Green Paper process and the current consultation process have understood the proposal, someone would be are entirely the right way to deal with this complex entitled to a share of costs in return for a one-off issue. The problem is that now is entirely the wrong time payment of perhaps £20,000 to £25,000. I put it to the to put that process in place. Minister—it is recognised in the Green Paper—that Much is made of the well known conference speech surely one of the great problems with that is that large by Tony Blair in 1997, but even more significantly, on numbers of people would opt out. I am not saying that 4 December that year the then Secretary of State for they should opt out, but faced with a situation where Health, the right hon. Member for Holborn and St. Pancras they are thinking that it is a lottery with a one in five (Frank Dobson), in announcing the royal commission chance that it might be needed, surely many would do on long-term care, said: so. The amount of the population insured would then “The present situation cannot go on much longer. People are become rather problematic. entitled to security and dignity in their old age, so we must find a The Government’s second option is the comprehensive way in which to fund long-term care which is fair and affordable option, of which I am much more in favour. It gets over both for the individual and for the taxpayer.”—[Official Report, 4 December 1997; Vol. 302, c. 490.] the problem of people opting out because it is compulsory—let us use the C-word, although some Here we are 12 years on, and the rhetoric from the would call it the nanny state. However, if we are serious Government is absolutely identical. about an insurance model, we need to ensure that Like many people, I like the style and the refreshing everyone who could afford to pay would do so. Of openness of the new Secretary of State, but he and the course some people—ultimately the lucky ones, really— other Ministers have to take it on the chin that this has would get nothing out of it because they would not have been a spectacular area of failure throughout the course any debilitating conditions and might die suddenly in of this Government’s time in power. [Interruption.] If their 80s. However, that is a bit like the national insurance the Minister of State, the hon. Member for Corby (Phil system, and I do not feel that I have been tricked Hope), wishes to intervene he is welcome to do so, but it because I have not received unemployment benefit. I am is extraordinary that he can sit there and chunter when rather pleased that I have not, and I look to the good the Secretary of State himself has acknowledged today people of Croydon, North to ensure that that continues, that the system is unfair, unclear and ineffective. I at least into the foreseeable future. would not like to defend this Government’s record on I end with three questions for the Minister about the care, and I look forward to hearing him do so later. comprehensive option. First, how do we cover younger The Secretary of State is right that the way to deal disabled people, given that this is very much a case of with this issue is through consensus, working through something being triggered at age 65? Secondly, how the complexities and building a coalition across the would it work with different cohorts? I can see that political divide and with the many organisations that do someone reaching the age of 65 might pay a certain sum wonderful work for older people, those with certain of money, one way or another, but what about the conditions and others. It is right to bring them together current 80-year-old—how would it affect her? Would in a consultation about what should happen. However, there be some sort of phasing in? the Government are now simply saying that that is a 511 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 512

[Greg Mulholland] the worry that that has caused even more concern among older people and older people’s groups about matter for the next Government, and that the current the future of the benefit on which they rely. As soon as process is about obliging the next Government to act. people hit that arbitrary 65, they are no longer regarded That is disappointing and unacceptable. as a carer or eligible for specific benefits—they have to We have to accept where we are and the fact that rely on the state pension. The sooner we can get clarity there has to be a move towards a form of consensus, from the Government about that and, indeed, about because this is such a difficult issue. I regret the attendance allowance, the better. announcements by both the other parties of their partial Let me deal with the two policy announcements that policies that do nothing to take us forward to that were made suddenly during the party conference season. consensus. Let us consider the problems—again, the How far from the idea of consultation and consensus Secretary of State gave an honest description of the could that possibly be? I am afraid that the two policies failings of the current system and the reasons for change. seemed more like the first pages of election manifestos The system is clearly underfunded, patently unfair and than a serious attempt by the Government to work so unclear that, in many cases, people are not sure to within their Green Paper framework. There is nothing what they are entitled or how to claim support and care. seriously wrong with some of the ideas proposed by the The quality of care in the current system is variable Government and the Opposition, but they must admit and, in some cases, unacceptably low. Too many older that the policies announced by both are partial, would people who could remain in the community cost-effectively help only a small number of the people who are affected are admitted to residential care against their wishes. in the wide and complex sphere of social care— There is concern about the unfairness of a system in Mr. Stephen O’Brien: I never claimed that they did which eligibility rules for free NHS continuing care are anything else. not applied consistently even throughout England, never mind Wales and Scotland, leading to a postcode lottery—I Greg Mulholland: Indeed. It is welcome that at least do not like the term—for those with intensive needs. we now have something from the Conservatives, having had radio silence from them for many years, apart from John Mason: Is the hon. Gentleman suggesting that barbed comments across the Dispatch Box. At least we should have a uniform system across the UK, under they now have a policy to discuss, even if it is criticised. which everybody gets exactly the same and there is no It is a little rich for the hon. Member for Eddisbury local decision making? (Mr. O’Brien) to sit there chuntering when all the Greg Mulholland: Absolutely not. I was saying that Conservatives have is a partial policy that would help a there is not even consistently adequate care. I think that very small number of well-off people. Let us be clear we all agree that we must reach a stage whereby all those about that. The only people who will be helped by that who need care receive an adequate minimum level of rather odd contribution from the Conservatives are care and know what the state will and will not provide those who can afford to pay a lump sum of £8,000 at and what they have to provide for themselves. that stage. That may help a few of the people whom the Conservatives think are more likely to vote for them at Kelvin Hopkins: Is the hon. Gentleman saying that the next election, but if they seriously think that that is there should not be a postcode lottery, but a standard any kind of contribution to this important debate, it that we should all expect, wherever we are? probably would have been better for their to have carried on saying absolutely nothing at all. Greg Mulholland: As the hon. Gentleman probably knows, our policy is to move towards a system—originally Mr. David Anderson: Does the hon. Gentleman agree derived from Wanless and central to one of the options that the very fact that the Conservatives call their scheme in the Green Paper—of minimum entitlement, on which a “home protection scheme” shows where their minds people can rely. Beyond that, it is for local councils to are? Their policy is about protecting the home, not retain the power to deliver services, hopefully in a much about delivering quality care for the elderly people of more joined-up way with local health boards, which will this country.[Interruption.] be elected under a Liberal Democrat Government. Moving Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): Order. If the towards a system of universal basic support, whatever hon. Member for Eddisbury (Mr. O’Brien) wishes to that may be, is central to the Green Paper. The debate make a comment, he knows the way to do so. and the consultation are about that. Greg Mulholland: The hon. Member for Blaydon Mr. Harper: Will the hon. Gentleman say a little (Mr. Anderson) is right. I have heard a lot from the hon. about his party’s view of the personalisation agenda? Member for Eddisbury in debates in this House and His comments about entitlement refer to available resources, outside, and it is extraordinary for him seriously to but the shape of services locally will depend to some suggest that his policy will do anything on the wider, extent on individuals’ decisions about how to spend important issue of keeping people in their homes. I their budgets. found it extraordinary that when he was challenged on the Conservative policy for the millions of people who Greg Mulholland: We entirely support the personalisation need but are currently not getting care, he wandered off agenda—we have made that clear all along. Services are and started talking about public health. I do not imagine best when they are suited to individual needs. that I was the only one in the House who was a little I want to mention briefly the important issue that confused by that. The Conservatives might think that many groups have raised: the potential changes to benefit. announcing that they will have a Minister for public I welcome the fact that the Secretary of State has health is exciting, but it has no relevance to today’s clarified the position on DLA for under-65s, but I echo debate. 513 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 514

The Green Paper and the Prime Minister’s speech are people to have to sell their homes and we must do all regrettable announcements. Of course it is important to that we can to support people to live in their own deal with those who have the most critical needs, as the homes. However, we must also ensure that people in Prime Minister said in his speech, but the Government residential care have a standard of living that allows must also acknowledge that people with lesser needs all them to live out their later years in dignity, as we would too often miss out because of the pressure on local want our own relatives to be able to do. The expense councils, which have to change their eligibility criteria. allowance is not currently set at a level to allow that, I welcome the fact that the first substantive Government and that needs to be looked at. policy announcement on the issue since the Green As a member of the all-party parliamentary group on Paper commits new money. It is not a huge amount, but dementia—the chair of the group, the hon. Member for it is reasonably substantial. If we are to have a consensus, Rugby and Kenilworth (Jeremy Wright), is no longer in for which the Secretary of State stressed the need, it his place—I could not end my comments without raising must start with one very simple premise: there must be that issue. There is a real crisis, given the number of more Government investment and money. We can discuss people who suffer, and will suffer, from the set of awful how much that should be and of course, in the recession, conditions that come under the dementia umbrella; it is we should talk about how much the Government can forecast to rise to more than 1 million by 2025, which is afford—to echo the comments of the hon. Member not very far away. It is frustrating that the Green Paper for Luton, North (Kelvin Hopkins), we should talk is not clear about how much the focus will be on dealing about priorities and overall Government spending with the particular and additional care needs of those commitments—but any serious policy to deal with this who suffer from forms of dementia and their families, important area of care must commit new money. I many of whom are carers themselves. welcome the fact that the Government have at least done that, but I wonder whether that will be all that is Over the last year or so, I have been pleased to work included in the Labour party manifesto at the next with the Alzheimer’s Research Trust and the author election. Terry Pratchett to call for more research into dementia. I appreciate that that comes under a different Department. The Liberal Democrats acknowledge that there is a There are real possibilities if we invest significant money need for more investment. Any policy that does not deal in preventing some of those conditions, especially if with that is simply not credible. I look forward to seeing more people can be enabled to carry on living independent whether the Conservatives acknowledge that too, because lives. I ask for more joined-up thinking on the approach all the experts and reports, including Government reports, to dementia, so that more research is at the heart of the and all organisations involved, stress that there must be overall process, as well as a focus on the care needs of more investment. Any party that does not do that—Help people with dementia. the Aged and Age Concern have said this explicitly—is not a party to which older people should turn. I, and my colleagues on the Liberal Democrat Benches, fully accept that we need to work together. I made my Other hon. Members have mentioned the important criticisms of the Government at the beginning of my subject of carers. I cannot put it better than the right speech; but now it is important to move forward. Whoever hon. Member for Croydon, North (Malcolm Wicks) the Government after the next election—be it a Liberal when he said that the mention of carers in the Green Democrat one, a minority Labour one or possibly even Paper is a little feeble, and that carers are not at the core the Conservatives in coalition with the nationalists, to of its approach. I accept that it is a cross-departmental which I think the right hon. Member for Croydon, issue in the sense that theoretically carers and their North alluded—from next summer they will have to benefits come under the remit of the Department for make this an absolutely top priority as part of their Work and Pensions, and that this is a health debate, but programme for the next Parliament. We do not want to we need more joined-up thinking to recognise the go into the election after next with people saying, “Yes extraordinary contribution that Britain’s carers make. It we will do wonderful things in the future.” We have had is too awful to contemplate what would happen to that for the past 12 and a half years. many of those in need of social care without the contribution of those millions of people, many of them We need a consensus and to start by agreeing that any elderly themselves. It has been estimated that the annual reform, however funded, must involve increased contribution to society by carers is worth more than Government investment. We need a fairer and clearer £87 billion—more than the entire NHS budget—but system that is easier for people to access and understand. carer’s allowance is still at a level that does nothing to We need a complete overhaul of the care system in this recognise that contribution or the loss of income that country. We need a system that will ensure support for carers often face because they take on those responsibilities. those who currently are not getting it even though they While there have been some important local initiatives—I need help—unfortunately, many are in that situation. have had the pleasure of visiting many of them—not We need a system that does not punish people for saving enough support, advice and respite is offered to many and being thrifty throughout their lives. We need a carers. I reiterate the point made by my hon. Friend the system that means that people are not forced to sell Member for Sutton and Cheam (Mr. Burstow) about their homes in the way that too many are still forced. We the real concern that the £150 million earmarked for need a system that is focused a little more on preventive carers is not getting through. I ask the Minister to look services. at that and provide reassurance that the money is getting to the people whom it is designed to help. Mr. David Anderson: The hon. Gentleman has laid I also wish to raise the issue of personal expense out a plan with which I fully concur. Will he give me an allowance. The Conservatives have talked about this idea of his party’s position on how much such a system issue, and it is important, because we do not want will cost the public purse? 515 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 516

Greg Mulholland: As the hon. Gentleman knows, we the honesty with which he engaged with them to make have committed to a form of the Wanless partnership them feel that they were part of the consultation, for we model, and we are very clear that we believe that that is are talking about a Green Paper. That is the important the right approach for moving forward to a system in thing that we need to understand, and there are options which everyone receives an entitlement that they can that need to be discussed. That is why I said that it was know and understand. The hon. Member for Luton, important that I trusted my constituents to look at the North will not agree, but my party believes that both Green Paper in that light and to consider the options; the state and individuals have to contribute. The question and, as good people will, they came up with even more for the debate and consultation is by how much. That thing for Ministers to consider. I would like to put those does not rule out considering increasing taxation; I forward. echo comments that people taking part in the consultation I will not reiterate why we are having this debate. We should be allowed to consider that. know that the demographics of this country are changing. We believe that we need a system that supports carers However, I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member better and better represents their enormous contribution for Croydon, North (Malcolm Wicks) that knowing to society. We also believe that we need a system that that most people will live into their retirement is a good finally starts to break down the social care and health problem to have and one that we should celebrate. We divide, to which hon. Members have alluded. That is need to ensure that that retirement is happy and dignified. unfinished business in the NHS and the system as a That is why I believe that many of the proposals in the whole, and it needs to be addressed. The Liberal Democrats Green Paper will secure the future for people. are committed to a consensus, which is why we did not I thought carefully about how we should try to pull launch any partial policies at our party conference. We all those thoughts together, because it is difficult when need to have comprehensive solutions that will deal there are 50 lively people in a room who just want to get with the system. It will not be easy. We should have been their views across. We therefore decided to put the having this discussion two, five or 10 years ago, but we questions that were posed in the Green Paper to them, are having it now. to try to give some structure and a sense of purpose to Whoever are in government after the next the election, the meeting. However, there were undoubtedly further the Liberal Democrats will play their part in moving issues to be raised. The first question raised in the forwards to a social care system that, finally, is fit for Green Paper is how we build a national care service. My the end of the 20th century—never mind the one that constituents felt very much that it was important to we really need, which is for the 21st century. In that have a national standard that we can use as a benchmark society, older people will finally be able to live out the for how local authorities roll out care in a way that is remainder of their lives, knowing what their entitlements suited to people. Personalised care is incredibly important are, what they can and should receive and where to go to people, but understanding that there is a quality for support, and knowing that, whether they are in standard in place was crucial to our debate. Indeed, I residential care or their own homes, they will be supported was so pleased that everyone who spoke knew that we and appreciated by successive Governments in this country. needed to concentrate on the quality of the service. When I received the Unison briefing on the proposals 3.59 pm in the Green Paper, it was interesting to see how much Laura Moffatt (Crawley) (Lab): I have had an interest my constituents and carers echoed its views on ensuring in this subject for many years, particularly as an acute that people are properly trained, so that, in whatever nurse who cared for people who then became well, or as service they are in and however it looks, they have the well as they could, and had to return home, but who necessary employment laws to back them up and that then often found that the services that they received they receive the education and training that they need. were not of a standard that did justice to a fantastic However, that cannot be done on the cheap. NHS.I am delighted that we now have the opportunity to consult with our constituents on how best to move Mr. David Anderson: May I suggest to my hon. forward on shaping the future of social care. Friend that one of the dangers of the personalisation of I decided to trust my constituents. I said, “Why don’t social care is that people will choose to employ those we have a conference to bring together carers”—that who have not been properly trained and do not have the fantastic band of people who care for others—“and experience or knowledge to look after people properly? those for whom they care?”, because they are an important element of this debate. “Why don’t we bring them Laura Moffatt: I thank my hon. Friend for his together with those who are in charge of adult services, intervention. There was indeed a sense of concern about those who look after people from organisations such as that. Although people were keen to have their own care Mind and Age Concern, and social care workers, who sorted and to feel that they were in the driving seat, do an amazing job, day to day, keeping people in their there was also a great sense that we need the Government own homes? Let’s gather together 50 people who genuinely and the NHS to be involved to ensure standards and have an interest in the debate.” I do not care how this quality. In that respect, I utterly agree with my hon. debate today came about or why we have decided to Friend. have it; I am just very glad that we are having it and that When everyone came together at that conference, it we can raise such matters on the Floor of the House, was interesting to see a care worker sitting opposite the because I want to ensure that the views of my constituents adult care services manager and alongside a carer as get through. they tried to thrash out how we should create a national I thank my hon. Friend the Minister, who has care service. It was stunning to see how much agreement responsibility for social care services, for the time that there was among those people on how we should move he took to greet my constituents and for the care and forward. There was a tremendous sense of the future as 517 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 518 they considered the document. One question that was suspect that that is true. There will be no elimination of asked was, “What will happen if we are not able to the private sector in health. As the preferred provider, achieve this in this Parliament? Would the system be however, there is no doubt that the NHS offers security dismantled in the future? Can we afford to have a sense in the future. There is nothing better than knowing that of hope for a decent social care network and a strategy the system is fully funded. That is why we are having a for the future, or might the system be dismantled?” bit of a strange debate here, as it is all about genuinely There is a great sense of insecurity about these things looking at what will never be a cheap option, but one being promised and it being impossible to deliver them, that should be fair, equitable and allows everyone access and we need to be able to offer people a sense of to care without having to sell their home. Even in the security about the future. short time available during that morning conference, my constituents were beginning to understand how to Mr. Harper: I think I know what the hon. Lady is implement and pay for such a service. That showed me alluding to, and I am sure that the Minister will say that they believed that the proposed strategy was the more about personalisation later. We have certainly right way forward. always made it clear that we are very committed to I am deeply grateful that one problem has been ensuring that individuals have control over their services, eliminated from our considerations. I would not have so her constituents need have no worries. Whoever liked standing up to express my concern about the loss forms the next Government, personalisation will be of disability living allowance for people up to the age of very much on the cards and will continue to be part of 65; I am delighted that I do not have to do that now. As the forward strategy. we know, there is still a debate about the payment of Laura Moffatt: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman attendance allowance to the over-65s, but, none the less, for his intervention. I suspect, however, that my constituents we need to continue to consider such important matters. were also worried that they might be saddled with a One great shortcoming that people identified was the scheme that would cover them only if they went into a lack of information about available services; people felt nursing home if they had paid a contribution of £8,000, that such communication should be very much a part of rather than a system that would cover all people, whatever a national care service. Part of the difficulty they identified their needs. I suspect that they will have real concerns is that those most empowered with the ability to find about that. I hear what the hon. Gentleman is saying out what is available always seem to get it. The service about personalised care, and that is something that the must offer proper outreach; it must be able to contact Government support, with all the provisos on quality, people and to offer the care. We are asking a lot of this education and employment standards set out by my service, to say the least, but I do not believe that we need right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, North. We to be mealy-mouthed about it. This is our opportunity must ensure that this is done properly; it cannot be done to be bold about social care. If we are going to ask on the cheap. That is why Labour Members are having a people to make a contribution, the service must, frankly, proper debate about this. We must ensure that people be beyond anything we have ever known in the sphere of understand that this cannot be done without a contribution, social care. perhaps through taxation. I pay tribute to those working in social care, because I In those discussions in my constituency, it was interesting know that they are doing their very best on constrained that people really tried to understand the situation. I budgets. We have already talked about demographics sincerely hope that we go for a comprehensive system, and the fact that people are living longer, which means as that is what my constituents want. They said unanimously that more and more care must be provided. None the that the comprehensive system was the way forward. If less, if we give people the tools to do the job they wish they were to choose a method that involved a one-off to do in the way they wish to do it and in a professional payment, that would be their choice. They also asked manner, I certainly believe that the service they provide what was going happen about setting up the system will be incredibly special. now, and whether they could plan for the future. There Interestingly, people attending the conference also was a degree of ambiguity involved. Should this be a had a sense that we had a personal responsibility for our system in which they could make their contribution by own health in older age. They were very keen that social paying a capped social insurance premium over a period care offered the means to overcome health inequality by of time, or could that be achieved by a one-off payment? ensuring that pensioners had access to health checks I was really impressed by the way in which they held and took responsibility for their own health through those discussions. exercise. I think that that is an incredible change. Very often in the past, I think, the NHS was viewed simply as Kelvin Hopkins: I admire my hon. Friend for the a giver of care, but that sentiment has changed absolutely, consultation process that she has held. If I were to put particularly in Crawley where we have the “Wellbeing” my view to her constituents—or perhaps to my own—that programme. That programme offers people the opportunity the best system would be a professional public service, to exercise, to assess their diet and to enjoy different with fully trained public servants employed on an activities in order to allow them to take responsibility accountable basis, available to everyone, would they not for their own health. We know how much that can have preferred that? prevent ill health later on in life. Laura Moffatt: I thank my hon. Friend for that The conference was very clear in what it wanted to contribution. I suspect that if that question were put put to the Minister. He spent a long time with us, but directly to my constituents, they would say yes. They even more points were raised after he left. I could not were very pleased about the statement from my right stop people talking, as there were other things that they hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health about the wanted to say. They were particularly pleased their NHS being the preferred provider, in whatever sphere. I points appeared to be taken seriously by the Minister. 519 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 520

[Laura Moffatt] with residential care, because, important though residential care is, it has already been mentioned a good deal. They are also pleased to know that I have had this There are aspects of care in the community that give me further opportunity to press their points to the cause for concern, and I hope that the Minister will cast Minister today. some light on them when he responds. We are looking at a system that could be fair and it Page 97 of the Green Paper refers to the cost of care could certainly be the best in the world if we managed for people who are disabled early in their lives. It states: to set up a national care service that prolonged people’s “People who are disabled when they are born, or who become active lives. That is what the service is in the business of disabled during their working lives”— doing—making sure that people keep well and are able to remain in their own homes. There is little point in presumably, during the early part of their working offering a strategy that helps those who are going into lives— nursing homes when it is undoubtedly the case that the “are likely to have lower incomes and so will struggle to meet the overwhelming majority need to remain in their own cost of their care and support. At present, most people who are in homes. That is an absolute given. We must ensure that this position will have their care and support funded by the state, people can receive the care, help and love that they need because they are on low incomes. We envisage that this would continue.” in order to remain at home. We shall have to tackle all those matters without That sounds very encouraging and reassuring, but the imposing undue stress and strain during what will Green Paper seems to contain conflicting information undoubtedly be difficult years while we put the public about how people receiving certain benefits would be finances back in order. Anyone who does not accept affected. The Minister dealt with the question of disability that is living in cloud cuckoo land. We cannot offer the living allowance, and I am delighted about that, but we world without requiring any contribution from those have not yet been told what will happen to DLA recipients who would benefit from the service that we are providing, aged over 65, or to the people with lifelong disabilities either through taxation or through a system of giving. whom I mentioned in an intervention on my hon. Either way, we shall have to pay. Friend the Member for Eddisbury (Mr. O’Brien)—namely, those on severe disablement allowance. Since the paper When we discussed the issue at the conference, I was was published, I, like many MPs, have received a bit cheeky and asked people to say whether or not correspondence from constituents on all those benefits they were taxpayers. There was an absolute divide between who have been extremely unsettled by their reading of taxpayers and non-taxpayers over who should contribute. the Green Paper as to how they as individuals might be I believe that we should consider a taxation system, but affected. that we should also consider how we can help others to make a contribution to ease the burden. It need not be The Green Paper mentions what will happen to people an either/or system. when their services are based on personal circumstances, but also states: Kelvin Hopkins: The problem with the taxation system “Your money will be spent wisely and everyone who qualifies is that it is regressive. If it were made much more for care and support from the state will get some help meeting the progressive, the sort of taxpayers at the conference cost of care and support needs. would not suffer. In fact, they would be better off. You will be able to get help with paying for your care and Laura Moffatt: I thank my hon. Friend—I think—for support needs, and your money will be used wisely to fund a care and support system that is fair and sustainable.” his intervention. I hear what he says. Without question, my constituents chose the I can see a slight conflict there. On the one hand, they comprehensive system as being the fairest and most are being told that their money will be individualised equitable. Crucially, they also felt that it was the most and personalised; on the other, they are told that it sustainable. We know exactly where a system allowing “will be used wisely to fund a care and support system that is fair people to opt in or out would lead us. People who and sustainable.” wanted to keep their homes would choose to make a That brings me to the initial concern I felt on reading contribution of, say, £20,000 in order to do so, leaving the paper, which is the focus on universal assessment for everyone else behind. I firmly reject that system, and I entitlement to universal entitlements. I would be grateful am glad to say that my constituents do as well. if the Minister could confirm that I am not misinterpreting We are being presented with an exciting opportunity. the paper. Those people over 65 on attendance allowance I sincerely hope what has been said today and by our think they will lose that benefit, which will go into a constituents will be taken seriously. Today there has pool and the money will then be “used wisely” by a been a real sense that we have been given a chance to get centralised state. The state will transfer the funding the system right. The issue has never been tackled as through local social services to avoid a problem the well as it is tackled in the Green Paper. We have an paper has not got to grips with: the system of assessment opportunity to move forward, and to ensure that our of need by social services. I would like to try to get to constituents, and we ourselves—for I think that, as we grips with it here. grow older, we should declare an interest—enjoy security We want to fulfil people’s needs as individuals, whether in old age, along with the care and dignity that older they are the over-65s on attendance allowance, younger people so richly deserve. adults on disability living allowance, or—as mentioned earlier in the debate—those who have needs but at the 4.18 pm moment do not quality for any recognised benefit at all. Angela Browning (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): I There are many of them. We all see from our casework intend to focus on people receiving care in the community young adults who fight to get DLA and quite clearly rather than on the part of the Green Paper that deals should get it, but somehow do not tick the right boxes. 521 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 522

Among that group, I would particularly identify people In assessing people’s disability and how it impacts on with chronic and ongoing mental health conditions, their ability to manage their lives—perhaps with a little, people on the autistic spectrum and people who do not or a lot of, support—we must look at the person as a tick the right boxes at the moment. whole. That is why individual plans and packages can triumph over the concept of the universal standard, Kelvin Hopkins: The hon. Lady talks about ticking where there is a tick box and someone’s circumstances boxes. I have had two cases recently in my surgery might not happen to lead to it being ticked or the involving people who have been interviewed by a doctor person conducting the assessment not seeing the right on behalf of the Department of Work and Pensions category printed in terms. Further, I would not be and told that they are fit to work when they clearly are happy for there just to be a list of conditions. As we all not. They have then looked at their form and found that know, there are levels in respect of many medical conditions, the doctor has lied: the individual has said that they and individuals can be affected very differently by them. cannot do something and the doctor has put down that For some, a condition can considerably hamper their they can. Some of the medical practitioners are telling ability to look after themselves, whereas others might lies when filling in forms. be able to cope with a little help. This notion of universality therefore worries me enormously, because it means Angela Browning: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, there will be winners and losers, and the losers will be as I was just coming to what is now regarded in this those who are least able to make their case. country as a universal assessment of the ability to work. Only this week I have had two cases that I am taking up Greg Mulholland: I commend the hon. Lady for and which I think are quite appalling. All of us in all making her points so very powerfully. Does she agree parts of the House understand that there are a number that there is insufficient acknowledgement both of mental of people on long-term sickness benefits who could be health conditions and the fluctuations of many conditions assisted to get back into work. In my constituency, a both physical and mental, and that they are simply not great many want that assistance and want to get back taken into account in current assessments? into paid employment, but we must understand that does not necessarily mean full-time work; it may also Angela Browning: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely mean some progression into work that is suitable for right. I am sure the House has become fed up with me them. It is not just about retraining but about a range of going on about these two issues, and particularly mental other things to enable the individual to take their place, health and the autistic spectrum. Such conditions do either again or the first time, in the workplace. not fit neatly into any identified national criteria. They Following on from the hon. Gentleman’s comments, are very difficult to assess, and because people’s conditions let me highlight what universal assessment means. There can fluctuate, on one day they might pass a test and is a lady who has worked full time for many years who some might think, “There isn’t much wrong here,” but has had a mastectomy as a result of breast cancer. Her they can deteriorate very rapidly, or circumstances can clinicians say she is not ready to go back to work full affect them and make them deteriorate very rapidly. I time. She has had extensive chemotherapy and radiotherapy. thus find the one-size-fits-all attitude to providing for She was required to attend for an assessment, at which the most vulnerable in society worrying, and I hope the she was asked to raise her arms above her head; as she Minister will reassure me on this. I know that he has a was able to do so, she was told, “Okay, you’re ready for great deal of knowledge of these matters, and certainly full-time work”—with no mention of her possibly being of the autistic spectrum as he has taken the Autism Bill able to go back on a part-time basis. Anybody who through the House with many of us who have an knows how draining chemotherapy and radiotherapy interest in the subject. are on the system will know this is not just about I want now to talk a little about those at the other end asking, “Can you raise your arms above your head and of the age spectrum: the elderly. I have mentioned my start work full time on Monday?” She wants to return concern about their being denied disability living allowance, to work, but this is about gradually reintroducing her but there is another problem in respect of the elderly. I into the workplace. Her clinicians have said she might agree that old age is marvellous—I have been to two be ready to go back part time, but that she needs to do 100th birthday parties in my lifetime; this has been in this gradually because she naturally gets tired very the past few years because as a child one did not trot quickly, but that possibility has been totally dismissed. round going to 100th birthday parties—and the fact Another case I have dealt with is really quite tragic. A that people are living longer, which we can all observe, young girl in her 20s has had a tumour which has is to be celebrated. However, this is again about balance ravaged one side of her face, and she has had to have and a realisation of what comes with really old age. aggressive surgery to stop the spread of the tumour. She will need at least two or three more sessions of major Frailty, which might not necessarily involve a diagnosis surgery to help to rebuild her face, following the necessary of any particular condition or illness of which everyone removal of half of it in order to save her life. This young is aware, has an impact on the individual. It affects their woman is single. She had her own home, which she lost physical ability and their mental ability. Nobody ever as a result of being out of work while having this really thinks they are going to get so old that they long-term surgery. Thankfully, she has now got a home cannot do things for themselves, so there is a mental of her own again. The comments made to her when impact to consider. turns up to these back-to-work interviews are outrageous. Loneliness has been mentioned, and social isolation They are totally insensitive to a young woman who has has a huge impact on older people. I represent a rural gone through what I have described. The interviewers seat, where one sees a lot of this; some people still live in do not seem to take into account the emotional damage isolated conditions and do not have the usual arrangement done to somebody in such circumstances. whereby neighbours live right next door. In this universal 523 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 524

[Angela Browning] be raised, which would exclude more people at the bottom in order to provide for those at the top. It might system, how are these people who are as entitled—and sound a logical argument to provide for the most needy—of we are talking about entitlement—to get the right help course it does, and that has to be done. However, it is and support as those who live in the larger, urban quite interesting and surprising—this applies all around conurbations, to be treated as individuals, and how are the country and not just in my part of Devon—to see their needs to be met? When I read the document, I how many social services departments settle out of worry that they have not been thought of and that they court when, very occasionally, somebody challenges the will get left behind. statutory services through the courts or even starts the I serve on the Public Accounts Committee. The Minister process of legal action, in order to obtain their legal will know that in recent years the National Audit Office rights. That tells us something. It tells us that the has put before the PAC reports on very important authorities know they are not fulfilling their role as they subjects. We had an excellent report on dementia, another should, properly identifying needs and coming to an on stroke services and a more recent one on autism— agreement to fund a package that will meet the needs of another one, on rheumatoid arthritis, is coming up. the individual. Common themes run all the way through all those Finally, I am a great fan of direct payments. I have reports, but the one that perhaps emerges the strongest some personal knowledge of them within my family, is the inability of Government Departments and local but the way the system has been introduced around the government departments to work together when they country beggars belief. In some areas, it has been done need to do so—for example, in health and social service. in the most simplistic way as far as the user of the They work in silos. service is concerned. I will name an authority that I We have heard a little this afternoon about the need think is an exemplar in this regard: the unitary authority for services to work together to provide a holistic approach in Bournemouth, which is not in my constituency but is for the individual, but I must tell the Minister that that an authority with which I am familiar. When it first set will require more than everybody just standing up and up direct payments, it made quite sure that when people saying, “We need to do this.” If there is a need for any employed someone, all the necessary paperwork and national structure, it is in this sphere. A national structure administration were in place and simple to follow. It has is not about saying, “Fred Bloggs in one part of the a helpline for the people who use the system and the country will receive this.” I would rather somebody forms are extremely simple and straightforward. The more local to Fred Bloggs decided what he needed, authority did a lot of research and did it before people based on how he presents at any given moment in time. started to use the system. If there is indeed a role for national structures, it is for If such a thing can happen in one area of the country, the Government to examine carefully what needs to be why do authorities not share the information with each done to ensure, from the top, that we have a system other? Instead, we have seen some authorities whip whereby Departments, including the Department for away the services from those who were receiving them Work and Pensions, work together with social services, directly from the local authority before they had decided local Jobcentre Plus branches and the housing departments. how to get them on to a direct payment system. It All those public sector bodies that can deliver the totally backfired and caused the most terrible anxiety to solution to an individual’s needs now require more than people and their carers. just having their heads knocked together. There needs If we want to take a top-down approach, let us take to be an imperative from the top that makes all this exemplars of best practice and let the Government happen. make it their business to ensure they are spread throughout I realise that it is difficult; we all understand about the country so that people can see how to do it properly. budgets. One of the weaknesses in any system aiming to Let us not have the Government or a national system resolve these problems is that if one puts a little bit of telling individuals from the top down what is needed in money into this year’s budget to resolve a problem at their package or who is going to deliver it. We need that the lower end, be it dementia, autism or something else, freedom so that people’s packages can be tailored to people feel that it should have been spent on the “higher” their individual needs. Taking that away from them will needs. Yetif it is not put into this year’s budget, somewhere be a retrograde step. along the line, perhaps even a few years later, the 4.38 pm problem will turn into a massive call on the public sector purse because it will have turned into a crisis. Mr. David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab): As Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Minister of State, Ministry of Let us consider the economic point of view. All the Defence, my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Bill reports that the PAC has seen relating to health have Rammell), I have had quite a tough week. I have sat shown a very clear benefit to the public purse to be had through Adjournment debates, statements, an Opposition from doing things the right way. I know it sounds hard day debate yesterday afternoon and a Westminster Hall when a politician talks just about the economics, because debate. If I stand back from the issues being discussed, I of course every one of those reports contains the human can see that what was really important and what made it interest issue; each one deals with the impact on people’s a huge experience for me was listening to people across everyday lives. When the Minister winds up, will he give all this House who had true, real-life experience of what me reassurance and clarity on that point? I believe that we were talking about. They were people who had the way forward, particularly with care in the community, served in the forces. Today’s Opposition Whip, the hon. is to have people’s needs properly addressed. Member for Ludlow (Mr. Dunne), spoke yesterday I would not want to see the bar being raised yet again about his experience in the reserves—I believe in the for the eligibility assessment, particularly when we talk naval reserve. Those people knew the real world that about how this is to be financed. The bar could simply they had come from. 525 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 526

I want to speak from my experience as someone who started off with that loss. If we then consider that worked as a care worker; 20 years ago this month, I fell staffing and training levels were lower in the private into care work by mistake. I had been made redundant sector, and that their terms and conditions were much as a coal miner, which I had been for 20 years, and I was lower, we see that it was obvious that the public sector, looking for something to fill my time in the short break on a purely comparative basis, could not compete. before I picked up something else. I went for a 13-week We, as an authority, tried to set up an employee share part-time contract at Newcastle city council as a care option plan, which would have taken the homes out of services driver and 16 years later I left to come and direct public ownership and into an arm’s-length body work in this place. But the importance of the story is that the staff would run. I was unhappy with the plan not why I went there and stayed there. I was fortunate ideologically, but practically we tried to pursue it. Despite that I went to work in a place that was built by two that, the plug was pulled by the then Secretary of State visionaries: Jeremy Beecham, the leader of Newcastle for Social Security. He did not believe that the plan city council; and a gentleman who is no longer with us, went far enough into the private sector, and the reality Brian Roycroft, who was the director of social services was that 25 homes closed in Newcastle and we were left and, in fact, the leader of social services directors across with a rump of four. Home care workers had to pick up the country. In the mid-80s, they purpose-built a building the pieces, but at the same time there were too many in Newcastle called the Minories project, which was people to look after. The circle was squared by a change constructed to deliver real care in the community. The in the criteria for accessibility to care. The criteria for place was expensive, but it was quality. It included vulnerability and frailty were increased, as was the age sheltered housing, and the people who lived there had level, and people could not access care. Those choices access, as and when they needed it, to staff who worked were enforced; they made people such as Brian Roycroft in another part of the building. It had a respite centre and Jeremy Beecham despair; and they made the staff with 16 beds, which meant that over a 10-week period and the families we took care of despair. So the truth is 160 people could stay, giving their families some relief that, with the piece of work that we are all talking about while we looked after them and saw to their needs. today, we have the chance to rectify some of those The building had a restaurant that was open to the mistakes. public, and people over 65-years-old right across Newcastle As I said to the Conservative spokesman, the position could go there and meet their old friends. It was a real we reached in the mid-1990s was the result of a programme place that really worked. It had a day centre that was of 16 years before, from 1979 onwards, when the people second to none, and we even had our own bus—a of this country made a choice that they wanted tax cuts. 1970s Mercedes bus, which I loved driving. If I live until The Conservative party delivered those tax cuts, but I am 90, I shall never, ever forget the pleasure that I used one cannot give tax cuts and keep on giving quality to get from driving that bus and seeing a particular old services—it does not work. If the money is not there, lady called Florrie, who used to look out of the window, the service cannot be delivered in the way that the with the sunshine in her eyes. The only thing was that people of this country deserve. There was less money to she could not see, because she was totally blind, but the spend, so there was less money to be given out for care look of pleasure on that lady’s face will stay with me as services, as well as for other areas. long as I live. Memories like that represent the real The policy was also, clearly, ideologically driven. It experience of people who work in care. was not a mistake that care homes were closed—it was I went from being a man working the coalface in direct destruction of the public sector. In the same way, March 1989 to being a man standing with a doctor in it was not a mistake that public transport was taken March 1990, helping to put a prolapsed womb back away from council ownership and put into the private into a 91-year-old lady. It was totally different, but that sector, or that council housing was taken out of the is the real work that carers have to do, day-in, day-out, remit of councils. We had two choices back then, and 365 days a year. I want to put on the record my now we have a chance to move forward and make appreciation of the work that they do, whether they are choices in the other direction. professional carers or carers who help their family or Since 1997, we have seen some improvements. For friends. The real joy of that job was the total appreciation example, there have been huge improvements in how we that we got from people after doing something as look after people at work. The national minimum wage simple as cutting up their food, fastening their laces or has been a huge positive for people working in the care helping them go to the toilet—things that we all take for sector. We now give people guaranteed holidays, people granted, but things that, sadly, they were no longer able have better maternity rights and paternity rights, and to to do. But we had to do that work, and it was a privilege some extent we have levelled the playing field between to do it. private and public sector provision. We have increased The great thing that made that building work was resources and support to local authorities and the national that it had a good number of staff. It was a very health service, and we have supported and developed staff-intensive unit, but because of that it worked. Sadly, independent providers. There have been positive changes however, because it was the early 1990s, we also had to to training, skills and the registration of staff, so that face the reality of the budget constraints that our caring is seen as a professional job. authority was working under. It was being told that it All that has been important, but it has not been had to put a price—not a value—on care, and the price enough. The sad reality is that underneath it all, as the of the care that we delivered was, sadly, not in line with hon. Member for Leeds, North-West (Greg Mulholland) the price that the private sector delivered. That is hardly said, we are under-resourced. That is the nettle that we unusual, when we consider that legislation at the time have to grasp, whether we like it or not. My hon. Friend said that there was a £50 disincentive on each bed in a the Member for Crawley (Laura Moffatt) said that care public home as opposed to in a private home. We cannot be done on the cheap. In fact, low-cost, nasty, 527 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 528

[Mr. David Anderson] told, “You should be in care”, they say, “I am not going into care”. They go into care at the last moment because inefficient, unsafe and dangerous care can be done on of the pernicious impact of losing their home and not the cheap, but quality care cannot be done on the cheap. being able to leave it to their children, which is We need to realise that. understandable. In future, if they realise they need care, I am sad that the hon. Member for Glasgow, East they will say, “Yes, I will go in early, because my home is (John Mason) has left the Chamber, because I thought now safe”. However we square the circle, people will go that he would engage in a debate about what has been into care earlier and stay in longer. They will get the done in Scotland, where the introduction of free care care they need at the front end rather than have to go in has been accepted. I believe that there have been problems when they are on their last legs. The average period in and that there is debate between the Scottish Executive care will be much longer. and local authorities about who picks up the tab. The royal commission came up with some positive views. If Angela Browning: If those people were self-funding, we, as the United Kingdom Parliament, had taken up would they not be subject to assessment to see whether the challenge back then, the problems that have arisen they needed to go into care? They could not just go in in Scotland would not have been an issue. We could voluntarily without a full medical need to be admitted. have said, “We’ll provide for this need across the whole United Kingdom, and we’ll do it in a way that avoids Mr. Anderson: I agree absolutely. They would need these potential problems.” It is a shame that that did not medical, social and financial assessments, but my point happen. is that that happens now and people are told, “The best We have a national health service that ensures that place for you is in care”. They say, “I know that, but I someone who is out walking and gets run over by a bus am not going in.” In future, they will say, “I will go in, will be taken to a hospital and looked after. But if because my family is going to keep my home.” There someone cannot look after themselves, not because will be an incentive, whereas there is a disincentive at they have been run over by a bus but because they the moment because they want to protect the assets that cannot go to the toilet on their own, fasten their shoelaces they want to leave to their children. To a certain extent or feed themselves, they are told, “Sorry, you need to that is why we are having this debate, and the Opposition sell your house and give us everything you’ve got except should bear that in mind and address it. The hon. £16,000.” I cannot for the life of me see why that is; it is Member for Leeds, North-West spoke about consensus, not fair. and if we are having a genuine debate a consensus has to be hammered out. We need much more data to show This Government, to their credit, went to the people whether the £8,000 proposal is a runner. of this country with a 1 per cent. increase in national insurance contributions, directly to support improvements The proposal is a private insurance scheme. I do not to the health service. I do not recall anyone—perhaps know whether private insurers will be full of the milk of the Conservatives; I am not sure as I was not here at the human kindness all of a sudden and say, “We will run time—opposing that. The public never complained about the scheme free”. It hardly seems likely of a company it: they said it was a good thing to do, and that was such as Aviva, which has just announced almost £3 billion proven. I believe that we should be looking at doing that of profits. It might say, “We can afford to absorb this; again. It is nearly a year since we had a 2.5 per cent. we will do it for nothing”, but I doubt it very much. VAT cut, which apparently amounts to £12.5 million. The crux of the matter is that some people will not be Just think—if we put 0.5 per cent. on VAT, that would able to find £8,000, some people will choose not to pay create £2.5 billion. Perhaps my sums are wrong; if so, it and some will not have a pension lump sum. Why say someone brighter than me can put me right. That is the to someone, “On the day you retire, give us £8,000”? sort of mental attitude that this House must have in Why not say, “Give us £3 a week for 50 years while you saying that there are ways to square the circle but they are at work”? That is how we fund the national health will have a cost. service and most of the public services in this country. It I want to focus a little on the Tory proposals. I am is how we should have been funding care for the past sceptical, but genuinely interested, and I want to try to three decades and how we should fund it going forward—it work out what the Tories have brought forward. The is called collectivism. £8,000 proposal is worth looking at, if taken as a purely We have good quality caring staff who put a lot of mathematical argument. I understand that they said at trust in us to find a way forward for them. That is the their conference that if five people pay £8,000, one whole team—ancillary workers, home care workers, person gets two years of care out of that £40,000, and domestics working in homes, social workers and people the other four will not need it. How many people will classed as backroom staff who do the paperwork and have to pay before it becomes effective? Will it be five, ensure that things are right and proper. They need to 50, 5,000 or 50,000? If people do not buy into the know that they are in a service worth working in. They scheme, it will not get off the ground, and what will we are professionals and we need to treat them as such. We be able to do in the meantime? There have also been need to respect them and reward them in a way that rafts of reports that the costs are being underestimated clearly has not been the case in the past. as they will be not £20,000 but £26,000 a year, and that The royal commission reported that we should pursue the average stay will be three and a half years rather various things. Ministers said that the report did not get than two. If that is the case, the figures will obviously be consensus, but I can inform them that when it came out, inflated. I was the chair of the policy committee for the trade As I said to the hon. Member for Eddisbury union, Unison. We set up the right to care group, which (Mr. O’Brien), I believe that people will go into care involved campaign groups including one of the main earlier in future. When people are assessed now and ones, led by Claire Rayner, user groups, carers and 529 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 530 workers. The group was clear that the best way to who had received four 100th birthday cards from Her address the problem was for the service to be directly Majesty and noted that she had worn the same outfit in funded by tax. If we had done that then, it would have each one wrote to the palace to complain and had a been embedded in the culture of this country by now personal visit from one of the royal princes with a and we would not have been having this debate. If we revised design showing a different outfit. That shows had bitten the bullet at the beginning of this century, that the palace can listen to our constituents as well as the Opposition would have seen the system work and we can. been converted in the same way as on the minimum Given that I do not have much time and that I want wage and the other positive things that we have done. other hon. Members to have an opportunity to speak, I We should go for the fully funded option and, if we shall focus specifically on the benefits in the Green cannot do that, we must ensure that it plays a huge part Paper, to which several hon. Members referred, that in future. cause our constituents concern. The Green Paper mentions We have been here before and we did not make the attendance allowance, which, according to the Library right choices. We must now make the right choices—it is briefing, is the main social security benefit that goes to the mark of a civilised society. The shadow Chancellor people over 65. Although one cannot apply for disability said in his speech at conference, “We’re all in this living allowance once one is 65 or over, it continues after together.” The Conservative party’s programmes are 65 for those who are already getting it. It is worth not about us all being in this together, but about us all spending a moment on those allowances. being individuals. I believe that we are in this together Two rates of attendance allowance currently apply. because none of us knows where we will end up if we The lower rate is £47.10 and the higher rate is £70.35 a are fortunate enough to live into old age. We should week. They are significant amounts. I am sure that provide collectively. many who receive them would say that they are not high In the past three decades, we have failed to provide enough, but they are significant amounts that make a for the people of this country. It was interesting to hear significant difference to the quality of people’s lives. the hon. Member for Eddisbury describe how he is They are based on need and not means-tested using trying realise Tony Blair’s promises. I lived about 10 miles income or capital. They are tax free and non-contributory. from Tony Blair for 25 years, though politically we are They are therefore very different in nature from the probably a million miles apart. However, I agreed with social care support that one receives through a local him when he said that we are best when we are bold. I authority, which is means-tested. That is one of the say to my hon. Friend on the Front Bench, “Be bold, reasons for the debate. comrade.” Given that the Secretary of State mentioned DLA, it Several hon. Members rose— is worth noting that whereas attendance allowance has only a care component, assessed on personal care needs, Mr. Speaker: Order. There is plenty of time left for DLA has a care component and a mobility component. Back-Bench contributions before the Minister of State For many people, the mobility component, which under winds up, but I hope that the Member who has the floor the higher rate is enough to fund a car through the will have regard to the fact that others also wish to Motability scheme, makes a huge difference. It sometimes contribute and do not want their contributions to be makes the difference between a person being independent unreasonably squeezed. or otherwise. Will the Minister refer to that in his remarks? 4.56 pm Those benefits are quite distinctive, because if someone Mr. Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con): I am meets the conditions and receives them, they can spend grateful for that guidance, Mr. Speaker, and I will the money as they choose. Effectively, it gives them all endeavour to live by it. the advantages of an individual budget. In a sense, First, I want to say something in response to the way attendance allowance and disability living allowance in which the Secretary of State opened the debate. are individual budgets par excellence, because the funds Given that he began with some rather cheap remarks go to the individual, who can then decide how best to about my hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State spend them. The concern of many organisations and and that he said that the subject of the debate was the disabled people is that if the allowances were effectively most important in his in-tray, it is extraordinary that he folded into the social care system, the funds would left at 3.24 and has not stayed to the end. become means-tested, cash-limited and rationed. On a happier note, I listened carefully to the remarks My hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton of the right hon. Member for Croydon, North (Malcolm gave some examples of how that could be damaging, Wicks) about our ageing society and the comments of and I am pleased that my hon. Friend the Member for my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton Eddisbury (Mr. O’Brien), who speaks for the Conservatives (Angela Browning) about the number of people in our on these matters, made it very clear that we are not society who are over 100. That reminds me that this tempted to go down that road. In the time that the year on 6 August I had the great pleasure of being Minister has available, which I know is increasingly invited to the 105th birthday party of my constituent, compressed, will he dwell on how the proposals to fold Mrs. Lily Strugnall, who lives in Hanover court in attendance allowance and other disability benefits into Cinderford, in a home where her daughter, who is in her the social care system seem to be a step in the opposite 80s, also resides. That provides some interesting lessons direction from the welcome moves and his agenda towards about our ageing society. Mrs. Strugnall received her a more personalised approach? sixth 100th birthday card from Her Majesty the Queen We are saying to local authorities, “We want you to and I noted that this year Her Majesty had changed her assess people and agree on an amount of financial outfit. As an interesting aside, someone in Gloucestershire support, and ensure either that they have the opportunity 531 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 532

[Mr. Mark Harper] have an impact on whether someone is entitled to carer’s allowance. The Minister needs to set people’s to take the money in cash to spend themselves or that minds at rest about whether the changes in attendance you continue to provide the services while allowing the allowance will trigger changes in entitlement to carer’s individual to be in the driving seat about what the allowances. services look like,” yet folding benefits that people already receive and control into the local authority system takes Hywel Williams: Many people receive carer’s allowances us in the opposite direction. The Minister will know as for caring for people who receive attendance allowance, well as I do that getting the personalised approach because they need regular and substantial care—more working and getting local authorities to adopt it with than 35 hours a week—so there would be several knock-on enthusiasm is not as easy as it ought to be. Anything effects on people’s income if changes were made to that takes us in the opposite direction is not to be attendance allowances. welcomed. Mr. Harper: The hon. Gentleman makes a sensible It is worth remembering that a significant number of point that supports what I have said. people get those benefits. As of February this year, Many groups that represent disabled people are very nearly 1.6 million people receive attendance allowance, concerned about the proposals and have submitted and almost 1 million people above pension age— responses to the consultation. For example, the Royal 65 years—get disability living allowance. If we add National Institute of Blind People and Action for Blind those numbers and divide the sum by the number of People have said that they are strongly opposed to the parliamentary constituencies, we see that every hon. loss of attendance allowance. RADAR has said that Member has on average 4,000 over-65s who get one or it is other allowance. That is a significant number of people who may be concerned about the proposals in the “adamant that no one is getting their mitts on vital extra-cost benefits”. Green Paper. It makes the point that such benefits are designed to I draw the Minister’s attention to what the Secretary help to meet the extra costs of being disabled and of State said at the beginning of the debate. He said needing such care, and that people would lose choice, that, often, talk of change is unsettling for people, control and independence if they were removed. which indeed it is. That is not a reason for not changing something, but the unsettling nature of change is made Leonard Cheshire Disability also opposes any moves worse when the Government’s intentions are not clear, to take the DLA care component and attendance allowance so will the Minister clear up this matter? On 30 September, into broader social care funding. The National Autistic in Disability Now, he said: Society is very concerned about the proposals, as is Age Concern. So a broad spread of organisations that work “All the models that” in the field are very concerned. the Government Neil Bateman, a welfare rights specialist who writes “have done have not included DLA…DLA is not under threat for the website communitycare.co.uk, makes the point: and people can be very happy.” “The AA/DLA recipient…decides what to spend the money On 13 October—just a couple of weeks later—his colleague on…the core principle behind Individual Budgets, whereas transferring Lord McKenzie of Luton said that the Government AA/DLA to social care…would involve extending bureaucratic control over people’s lives, undermining the new philosophy of were not ruling out any options. After being pressed a individualisation and choice.” number times, he explicitly said that the Government That is exactly the point that I made earlier. The “are considering all disability benefits.”—[Official Report, House Government need to think again about this change. The of Lords, 13 October 2009; Vol. 713, c. 112.] Secretary of State has gone some way by ruling out However, the Secretary of State told a conference of changing DLA for those under 65, but that still leaves directors of adult social services in Harrogate that he more than 1 million over 65 and a significant number wanted to close down the controversy over DLA and on attendance allowance with concerns that have not made it clear that the Government had ruled out any been allayed. suggestion that DLA for under-65s would be brought The issue of devolution and the impact on the benefits into the new national care service. Given that the Minister system has been mentioned. The very good Library said that DLA was not being considered, that his colleague paper for this debate points out: in the other place said that it was, and that the Secretary “Social security is a reserved matter in Great Britain and a of State implicitly accepted that it was being considered single body of legislation applies across England, Wales and because he ruled it out for the under-65s, I do not think Scotland. Any move to change the benefits rules in England alone that the Government have been very clear. That is partly would…be a significant departure”. why people find change unsettling. They are given mixed That is of especial interest and concern to me, because I messages and they do not know what is going on. represent a constituency that borders Wales. For example, It is also worth asking what would happen to carer’s we no longer have a national health service across the allowance in those circumstances. Some 500,000 people UK: we have four different health services with different receive carer’s allowance, but in order to qualify for it a policies and different ways of dealing with challenges. A claimant must be caring for a disabled person. The national care service would really be an England care definition of a disabled person in that instance is someone service, which would deliver care in England, not across who receives the middle or higher rate care component the UK. For people who live towards the southern end of disability living allowance, or attendance allowance—or, of my constituency, in Sedbury or Beachley for example, in a smaller number of cases, constant attendance allowance the nearest town is Chepstow, which is in Wales, and I paid with a war or industrial disablement pension. If would not want them to face artificial restrictions on changes are made to attendance allowance, they could the best option for them because that would involve 533 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 534 crossing a border within the UK. Equally, somebody because if we do not have it, we will be talking about living in Wales with a service to be delivered in England this matter again and again in a decade, but still have would be restricted. That would be a retrograde step made no further progress. and not one that we should support. In an intervention on the Secretary of State, I referred The Minister knows that I am concerned about that to the consultation process. My local authority—the matter, because I asked him a question at Health questions London borough of Sutton—has participated in that a couple of weeks ago. New information has come into and organised two events with carers groups, carers my hands since then. I drew his attention to the fact that themselves, people in receipt of care and various providers. there had been a Green or White Paper—I forget which—on It came up with five key findings in a 16-page report this in May 2008 that had talked about the impact on that will be winging its way to the Department. I picked the devolved parts of the United Kingdom and the up a draft this morning. The findings were that people necessity to talk to the Scottish Government and the “preferred local to national (local flexibility with national assessment Welsh Assembly Government. He kind of indicated and minimum standards)…wanted a simple, transparent system that that might have happened. I asked him about it, that ends the ‘post-code’ lottery…preferred comprehensive over and I think that he said that those discussions were partnership and insurance (there was a distrust in insurance)…were taking place. interested in discussing taxation as an option” I received a briefing for this debate from the Scottish and Association for Mental Health. According to that “wanted more information on the subject generally”. association, the Scottish Government reported as late as 16 September this year that it had not been consulted The last point is particularly germane to our debate. about the effect of the policy change on people in There is a huge level of ignorance about social care Scotland. A paper was produced touching on the impact until people enter the system or encounter it vicariously on the devolved parts of the United Kingdom in May 2008 through a relative’s experience. Until that happens, most and the Green Paper before us was published in July people do not know what the system is about. I would this year. Things have been left remarkably late, therefore, therefore greatly support anything that can be done to given that the Government are talking about publishing raise awareness or ensure that social care is a central a White Paper in the next few months yet discussions issue at the next general election. with devolved Governments had not taken place as of The hon. Member for Blaydon (Mr. Anderson) talked 16 September. about the rationing of care, in effect, through the use of It would be helpful if the Minister could indicate eligibility criteria. Although there have been welcome whether those discussions are now under way—whether changes in that respect over the past 10 years, I am also at official or ministerial level—or, if they are not, when proud that my local authority, the London borough of they will start. If they are under way, will he indicate Sutton, which has been under Lib-Dem control for the where they have got to? We must ensure that we do not past 23 years, has managed to sustain its eligibility make changes to the UK-wide benefits system that will criteria in the “moderate” band. That ought not to go affect different parts of the United Kingdom without unmentioned, as only a handful of London boroughs having had those conversations. That might leave people still do that. in the lurch, as my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton Quality of care has been referred to in this debate in a and Honiton suggested has happened in other local number of ways. I want to pick up on two or three authority areas. points that illustrate why we need to strive to do more to There are real concerns about the impact on benefits address concerns about quality. In their briefings for which affect, as I said, on average 4,000 people in every this debate, both the Parkinson’s Disease Society and constituency in the United Kingdom. That will concentrate the Alzheimer’s Society reported concerns about the the minds of hon. Members on both sides of the House quality of care and, in particular, the lack of social as we approach the general election. There are also activities in residential care. People are left to receive other issues that have not really come up about the care passively and, although routine tasks are performed, impact on the devolved parts of the United Kingdom. I they do not receive the emotional support and engagement know that the Minister will be short on time, but if he that comes through social activity. There is also a crying can at least touch on those points, I would be most need for more training, particularly on dementia. grateful. One subject that is a particular concern for me, and which I also think is a marker of quality of care, is the 5.12 pm inappropriate—and I would go so far as to say abusive—use Mr. Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam) (LD): I am of antipsychotic drugs in residential settings. Not only delighted that we are having this important debate. The do they bring people’s lives to an end prematurely, but Secretary of State was right when he identified that the in some cases they kill people. The evidence has mounted matter before us will pose an important challenge in the over the years. I hope that Professor Sube Banerjee’s next Parliament for whoever find themselves in report, which I am told is to be published next month, Government. The question is whether we can build a will not just be published, but generate genuine action consensus this side of the general election. Although from the Government. this debate has many threads that could be pulled There has also been a lot of talk about home care, together to create a consensus, the environment in which which is undoubtedly an important component of what we are having the debate—with a general election not we want to see happen. However, home care can become far off—probably makes it impossible this side of the as isolating and institutionalising as residential care if it general election to reach that final consensus. Whoever is not well delivered. There are plenty of documented is in government after the election, however, will need to cases and audit reports demonstrating that. Again, drive quickly and forcefully to deliver a consensus, training is an essential part of that, particularly in 535 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 536

[Mr. Paul Burstow] one? It is not entirely clear what is intended. If it is about providing a national framework of eligibility, manual handling. We need to avoid having a revolving that is welcome. If it is about greater clarity and the door of poorly paid and poorly trained staff or a portability of care packages, that is welcome, too. It is succession of ever-changing faces coming in and providing important to recognise, however, that concerns have brief care interventions. We also need to avoid having to been expressed about how national eligibility criteria chase people to get them there in the first place. will be made to stick around the country. Those concerns Reference has been made to telecare. I have seen it emerged from the consultations in Sutton. How can we being developed and delivered in many parts of the create assessment tools that will guarantee consistency country. It undoubtedly has a contribution to make, but of approach? We have seen, as the continuing care it cannot be a substitute for emotional support or that framework was rolled out across the country, that there human touch and kindness. If telecare is a substitute for are clearly inconsistencies between one part of the those things, what has it become? It has become little country and another. more than the electronic tagging of the elderly. The right hon. Member for Croydon, North (Malcolm The central debate is about funding and how we pay Wicks) talked about joined-up assessments, and he was for care. When we address the care of the elderly part of absolutely right. That leads me to ask another question our population, we must keep in mind dementia and the of the Minister: whatever happened to the single assessment fact that two thirds of those in care homes suffer from process? It was trumpeted in 2002, when the national it. The bills that they face are huge. Some would describe service framework for older people was launched. It them as a tax on dementia—indeed, the Alzheimer’s was going to provide the way of ensuring that people Society labels them as such. We therefore need to design were not put through endless, untimely assessment processes; a system in which the risk is fairly shared across society, only one process would be needed. That did not happen. find ways of removing barriers to accessing to capital—the Surely that process needs to be revisited if we are to figure of £1 trillion for the assets that the over-65s have an assessment tool that really delivers. owned before the recession is not to be ignored in this I have said already that I welcome the portability of debate—and ensure that people can access financial care packages, which is mentioned in the Green Paper. I services in contributing to the costs of their care. also welcome the recognition of the value of advice and However, the silence in the Green Paper on the means information for all, and of how empowering that can be test thresholds and the overall funding levels makes the for individuals. There is, however, a question mark over whole thing ring rather hollow. Without those, it is hard whether there is enough recognition of the differing to judge what the intention or purpose behind the capacities of individuals and families to navigate their design of the system will be. One way in which the way through the system. That does not seem to have Government clearly hope to try to redirect resources is been reflected in any discussion about advocacy or through the change to attendance allowance and disability about how we tailor support for families so that the living allowance. Although I welcome what has been system really delivers for everyone. said about disability living allowance in respect of the I speak to constituents who have experienced direct under-65s, there are still question marks over the rest. payments, and the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton Let us be clear: DLA and attendance allowance are (Angela Browning) demonstrated graphically how we the perfect direct payments, because they maximise can learn from experience around the country in that individuals’ personal choice and control over how they regard. People have been turned into book-keepers and use the resources that they receive. They are based on diary-keepers; they have effectively become the brokers need and are not means-tested. We need to understand of the system when they really wanted to be a carer. In the consequences of folding them up into social care some ways, direct payment takes that away from them budgets. One of the consequences, as we have just and gives them something else which they have not heard, is the possibility of breaking the link to the signed up for. We need clarity about advocacy. carer’s benefits and possibly making it harder for that benefit to be paid at all. I therefore hope that we do not It is also important to make it clear, when designing a go down that path. new system fit for the 21st century, that human rights My hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, North-West are a strong and resilient thread running through all of (Greg Mulholland) mentioned the personal expenses it. In a rights-based, entitlements-based system, the allowance. In the past, there was a promise of a consultation individual can ultimately force the joining up of services— on that, and the Green Paper would have been an ideal through the courts if necessary—and ensure that they opportunity at least to ask whether the allowance was are wrapped around to fit them, rather than the other fit for purpose and sufficient. Anyone who goes into way round. residential care and is funded by the state will find that I welcome what the Secretary of State said earlier the state takes most of their money away from them. about the need to root out ageism by 2012. That is long They are handed back only £21.15 a week to meet all overdue, but very welcome. We should not have arbitrary their personal costs. Frankly, that is not enough to give age bars or differential charges for services. How can anyone a reasonable quality of life, to give them the the charges for someone in a young adult care facility be right to buy a present for their grandson, to have a massively higher than those for someone in a residential decent haircut, or whatever else they might need. The care home for the elderly? What is it that those elderly Joseph Rowntree Foundation suggests that at least people are not entitled to that results in their care costs £40 is necessary to give any justice to those people in being so much lower than those for younger people? residential care. That brings me to carers, to whom I referred in an The national care service seems to be the centrepiece intervention. Carers should be part of the Green Paper of the Green Paper, but what is it really going to be? and should be enshrined in the principles of the national Will it be a virtual organisation, or will it become a real care service. Just last week, I attended the annual review 537 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 538 of the Sutton carers centre, which covers 19,000 carers so is the Prime Minister on page 2, but perhaps they in the London borough of Sutton. I heard some very are all smiling at the DLA announcements—so there inspirational presentations given by local carers there—and we are. by Jill Pay, who I understand is on the Standing Commission About 115,000 people in Wales have a right to attendance on Carers. These are ordinary people doing exceptional allowance, 80,000 of them at the higher rate. They, things, and we all know that their own health and well-being including 2,370 in my own Caernarfon constituency, often suffer as a result of taking on caring responsibilities. value it as a targeted and dependable source of help. Reference has been made to the £53.10 carer’s benefit. Since its inception, it has provided a way of promoting What we need is a timetable that delivers a significant and enabling autonomy, just as the mobility allowance enhancement to that benefit, well before the 2018 target provided a way of addressing the needs of disabled set in the Government’s carers strategy. people living out in the community. That was also the We also need transparency and accountability regarding principle behind the groundbreaking moves in the ’70s the £150 million that the Secretary of State has put into and ’80s, particularly in Wales, to shut large institutions caring services through the NHS. When I raised the under the “All Wales strategy for mental handicap”, as matter in a debate in June, the Minister told me that I it was called at the time—something I was intimately should go and ask my primary care trust. I did just that. involved in as a young social worker. Three months and endless e-mails later, I received a Attendance allowance helps people to be independent. letter yesterday. Let me read what it said at the end: There nothing wrong with being dependent. There is “NHS Sutton and Merton was expecting these resources to be nothing dishonourable about it. However, the direction allocated specifically, and not as part of general growth allocations. of social policy over the past 30 years has been towards However, it only became clear in April 2009 that the funds were autonomy, choice and enhanced independence for those actually included in general growth which the PCT had already who, in darker decades, might never have seen the committed some 4 months earlier in the Strategic Plan.” outside of an institution. I therefore consider the current The money is not going where it was intended, irrespective move to be a step in the wrong direction. of whether or not the Minister tells us it is. I hope that Given that the provision of care in Scotland and he will say more in his summing-up speech about how Wales is the responsibility of the devolved Administrations, we will be able to track this in the future. I am not I hope that the Minister will explain what will happen in talking about ring-fencing; the Minister should not go Scotland and Wales if attendance allowance is, as it down that path. I am not in interested in that; I am were, taken in-house throughout the United Kingdom. interested in local accountability for how the money is Will the Scotland and Wales element be transferred to spent. At the moment, on the basis of the behaviour of the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament as a my PCT and many others, that is not demonstrable. block grant for them to administer? That would be To conclude, I hope that the Green Paper will not something of a constitutional novelty. Will the Welsh only provide better care and support, but be a driver for Assembly, for example, be able to administer an attendance law reform. We need a comprehensive new social care allowance for Wales on the basis of the old system, or Act that brings together all the carers legislation passed will it just spend the money on health and social services piecemeal over the last decade. It should update the in Wales in the normal manner? legislation, remove the last vestiges of the Poor Law Mr. Harper: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? that are still part of our system and deliver the safeguarding, security and decency of care that all our citizens deserve. Hywel Williams: I will, although I am loth to do so With that, I look forward to seeing the White Paper, but given the pressure of time. rather than delivering anything, it might be a first shot in the general election. After that election, whoever sits Mr. Harper: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. He on the Treasury Bench will have to build a real consensus, has reminded us of a comment made by the right hon. which is what all our constituents want. Member for Croydon, North (Malcolm Wicks) about joined up-government, not just in Westminster but throughout the United Kingdom. It is essential for 5.27 pm conversations between the Westminster Government Hywel Williams (Caernarfon) (PC): I will endeavour and the devolved Governments to take place at an early to be fairly brief. The Green Paper is concerned with stage. care in England. My hon. Friend the Member for Hywel Williams: That is a very good point. I would Glasgow, East (John Mason) speaks for Scotland, and I certainly like the Welsh Assembly Government to take speak for Plaid Cymru and Wales. In the past, I have more responsibility for attendance allowance, although, resisted intervening in debates on care in England, as I have said, that would be a constitutional novelty. despite the strong temptation. I think that we need some answers from the Government Our main concern—and that of constituents in Wales before we take this much further, because there is a real and Scotland—is the particular worry about attendance fear in Wales and Scotland that DLA and attendance allowance and disability living allowance. There has allowance will disappear, and we are unclear about been some confusion over the last few months, some of what will take their place. which was cleared by the announcement on DLA for the under-65s. That still leaves the concern I expressed 5.31 pm earlier about over-65s, particularly those in Wales and The Minister of State, Department of Health (Phil Scotland, given the devolved nature of care, social care Hope): We have had an important—indeed, I would say and health services. crucial—debate on the Government’s proposal to create I had a close look at the Green Paper. I see that a national care service for older and disabled people. everyone on the front page is smiling, and, rather alarmingly, Members have spoken with great passion and considerable 539 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 540

[Phil Hope] now criticises us for the fact that the health service may not be giving the money out as it would have hoped. I knowledge. We have heard from former Ministers, and cannot accept that and I find its position to be a little from Members with personal and constituency experiences. hypocritical. I shall take each of the contributions as a submission to Others have mentioned the importance of services for the Green Paper consultation, which will boost the people with disabilities. I want to remind the House that numbers. another key building block that we put in place to create In opening the debate, my right hon. Friend the a national care service was Valuing People Now, our Secretary of State spelled out the need for change. My three-year strategy to transform the lives of those with right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, North learning disabilities and improve the quality of and (Malcolm Wicks) and the hon. Member for Eddisbury their access to local public services. I was disappointed (Mr. O’Brien) rehearsed some of the core arguments when the hon. Member for Brent, East (Sarah Teather) about the change in demography. For me, a key fact is criticised the Green Paper for not addressing the needs that there will be 1.7 million more people needing care of adults with learning disabilities, as the whole of the in the future. Is the current system of care provision Green Paper is about adults with disabilities, including able to cater for that? The Government’s conclusion, learning disabilities. Many of the features of the service and one of the drivers behind the decision to change the that they will receive are captured in the Green Paper. system into a national care service, is that it is not, and We also have a specific strategy to drive forward in that we need to find ways of responding to that. particular services for adults with learning disabilities. Another key issue is the anger that I have heard Many Members have mentioned dementia as being a expressed up and down the country at the unfairness of key pressure at the moment and one that is likely to the means test, which forces people to use their savings grow because of the demographic changes. My right or sell their homes to pay for their own care. That was hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, North made that mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon point. We have our national dementia strategy, published (Mr. Anderson). People are also worried about the in February. It talks about earlier diagnosis and earlier quality of care services. I think that every Member intervention, which is a key part of how we help people referred to that. People are worried not only about to live well with dementia as well as providing new whether they will be cared for well, but about whether services. I visited my right hon. Friend’s constituency the standard of care will vary according to where they where there is a very good memory clinic—one of the live. Many are worried about the postcode lottery. Adults forerunners of the national dementia strategy, it is a with disabilities are particularly worried about a variation model of good practice that we would like to be replicated between care assessments in different parts of the country. across the country. They do not feel confident that their care needs would Mental health has been mentioned. We have just be met if they moved to another area. completed our consultation on New Horizons, a major In proposing a national care service, we have used the shared vision for mental health for the future, whose building blocks of much of the very good work that has twin aims are to improve mental health services generally already been done throughout the country over the last but also, specifically, to improve the mental well-being four or five years. I must directly contradict claims by of the population as a whole. some Members on both sides of the House that we did nothing during those years and then suddenly embarked We also have the national strategy on adults with on consultation about a Green Paper. I remind them autism. The hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton that it was back in 2007 that we launched “Putting (Angela Browning) was gracious in recognising the People First”, which received huge support across the contribution of the Government in creating a statutory country. Local authorities, the health service, third sector basis for that in a Bill that I think will receive Royal organisations and the private sector signed up to the Assent in a few days. I am certain that it will. It is a agenda for the transformation of care services. We set landmark for the care and support of adults with aside an additional £520 million for local authorities to autism. personalise social care services in the way that every We also have our Dignity in Care campaign. Not a Member here wants. Most councils are now getting single Member mentioned that, which is why I mention more than £1 million each to support the agenda during it now. It is another key building block in driving the period 2008-11. That is a major building block as we change forward from the bottom up. Ten thousand aspire to create a national care service. individuals have now identified themselves as dignity Many Members mentioned carers and the importance champions in residential care homes, domiciliary care, of recognising their contribution in caring for a loved the NHS, local authorities, the third sector and private one. The carers strategy, published in 2008, is a 10–year sector organisations. They are all committed to playing programme to help to ensure that carers get increased their part in taking forward what I regard as a social care and control and can have a life outside of caring, movement to put dignity at the heart of care. which is what they aspire to and what we aspire to on More recently, we published the social care workforce their behalf. I understand the criticisms, repeated today, strategy. My hon. Friend the Member for Crawley about the money being delivered by the primary care (Laura Moffatt) was a model for how we might undertake trusts that have received extra cash, for example for consultations in our constituencies with individuals and respite care. I will be meeting the Princess Royal Trust groups on such proposals. From today, I would encourage for Carers, with senior NHS officials, to discuss how we every MP to spend the next two weeks—we still have might take this forward. another fortnight before the closing date—talking to I find it difficult to accept criticism from the Conservative local carers organisations and user groups, as well as party about that issue as it voted against the extra third sector and private sector care providers and local money going into the health service in the first place. It authorities. We must ensure that everybody is fully 541 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 542 engaged in this debate. Members should be leaders and as that which of the hon. Member for Forest of Dean shapers of the debate in their constituencies, because it (Mr. Harper) made from the Back Benches—it is confusing is very important. The Prime Minister recently announced that he is now sitting on the Front Bench. Officials met that from October 2010 people with the greatest needs colleagues from the devolved Administrations and territorial will be offered free personal care in their own homes, offices to discuss the content of the Green Paper before which is a major step forward in creating an integrated publication in July this year. Officials have been in national care service for the future. We are working regular contact since then with all devolved Administrations. through the detailed modelling of how that will work, We have been holding various meetings since the but it is of central importance and a building block publication, and a further series of meetings is planned towards achieving a national care service. to ensure a co-ordinated approach and to take into We must work through each and every one of these account the very real and understandable concerns strategies and bring them together. Each of them is Members have raised. good in its own right but, because of the concerns that Members have asked about the extent to which social have been raised, we all know that in order to meet the care and health care services can be joined up. My right needs of both carers and the users of care in our hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, North made a constituencies we have to reform and reshape the whole particular point about that in relation to housing. This system, as well as put in place and improve the individual is not just warm words in a paper; it is practical action components. Many Members have highlighted the key that we know can happen, whether through joint strategic features of the national care service, and I think the needs assessments or joint commissioning processes. public should start to expect them as an entitlement. We also have some structural changes. There are eight Those features include services that enable people to care trusts, for example. Each of these models is being live longer in their own homes, and prevention—that tried. Some are better than others. There is not a has been a theme throughout the afternoon. This will one-size-fits-all attitude. Indeed, we now have a range give carers support, and also peace of mind that the of integrated care pilots. I am unsure whether my right person they are caring for—perhaps a family member—is hon. Friend has come across them, but they were launched being looked after, such as through telecare or telehealth. recently. The clue to what they are about is in the title; I disagree with the sweeping criticism made by the hon. they offer integrated care. Issues being looked at in Member for Sutton and Cheam (Mr. Burstow); I think 16 localities include integrated care for people with telecare and telehealth have an important role to play in dementia and the elderly, end-of-life care and care for helping people, alongside other measures. people with long-term conditions, fluctuating conditions or mental health conditions. So we are taking practical Mr. Burstow rose— steps to find out, through practice—through making it Phil Hope: I understand why the hon. Gentleman happen—how we can do this better. wants to intervene, but I am sure he will understand Providing more information and advice is another that I do not have much time. Let me just say that I do key feature of the approach; it could be said to be an not think we should dismiss these measures too readily. entitlement that people should expect from a national The idea of a national assessment of a person’s care care service. People and their families should know needs based on the aspirations they themselves have what care, support and choices are available and how about their way of life and independence was raised. I they can properly access them. We need to be able to want to reassure the hon. Member for Tiverton and reach out into the community to those who might not Honiton that that is exactly what we want from a be accessing services under the current system. consistent and national system of care. It will of course be delivered locally, but to a pattern and a set approach Mr. Burstow: The Minister is discussing access to that will allow people to have consistency of care in advice, but does he think that there also needs to be a different parts of the country. It will not impose a similar entitlement to advocacy? system that negates individual needs and local distinctiveness; rather it will reinforce the needs of the Phil Hope: Yes, this country has some excellent examples individual and in a way that does not lead to different of support for advocacy, particularly among the user-led outcomes in different parts of the country. I hope that organisations; there are many varieties of this. We are reassurance is sufficient. funding the development of a range of user-led The disability movement in this country has been organisations up and down the country, and I have met championing real portability, and wants that to be the such organisations. The one that I can remember most outcome of the care needs assessment. I am delighted vividly is the Essex Coalition of Disabled People: not that the national care service will be a major achievement only are its people advocates, but they manage the for the disability movement in this country. direct payments system for many disabled people in Essex who use it—those disabled people find that things Mr. Harper: I agree about portability and the disability work very well. That coalition is run by disabled people movement, but what is important to note is that this is for disabled people, and it provides a successful advocacy not a national care service, but an England care service. system too. Advocacy would need to be a part of any We must not get more portability within England and future national care service. then make the borders between Wales and Scotland real barriers to people who might want to move about our The idea of personalised care and support is crucial. United Kingdom. The word “personalisation” runs through the whole of the Green Paper. It is about giving people choice over Phil Hope: I will make this point now, although I was the care that they receive; giving people control over going to come on to address the contribution of the their care and when and how they receive it; and genuinely hon. Member for Caernarfon (Hywel Williams) as well enabling people to live the independent lives that they 543 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 544

[Phil Hope] Secondly—I think this is a fair criticism—it was said that in some ways we have not placed families and want to lead. This personalisation should apply not carers at the heart of a new system for care in the future. only to care provided in people’s own homes, but to I can see the reasons for that criticism of the Green residential care. The point has been made, not least by Paper, but I want to say today that we do see families the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam, that we need and carers as being at the very heart of the system. The to ensure that in residential care settings people are purpose of a care service has to be to provide the given personalised care. I can remember visiting one support, choice and services that individuals need and residential care home where two residents in their 80s that they can access in order to their lives as individuals had got married. They were living ordinary lives and with somebody caring for them with their families and doing things that other people do, such as having relatives. Some people, of course, do not have carers, relationships. That is the right way forward. families and relatives around them. The care service The key theme that every Member’s contribution has needs to meet their needs, too, but we need to ensure touched on is fair funding. We know that all the options that, as the hon. Member for Leeds, North-West (Greg will have their advantages and disadvantages—in fact, Mulholland) said, the care service gives support to we spell them out in the Green Paper to encourage the carers and families, who are at the heart of what a care widest debate possible, as people understand how we system should be about. could have funding that is sustainable for the longer On benefits and attendance allowance, which were term. A number of hon. Members, not all of whom are mentioned by many hon. Members, let me make it clear still in the Chamber, have reflected on the value of that we are still keen to receive views on the case that general taxation as a route for funding a national care was made by the King’s Fund, Wanless and others to service. May I emphasise that a lot of care is funded bring together some elements of disability benefits, through general taxation right now? That is what is such as attendance allowance, with the funding of care being delivered at the moment. We know that more to provide a better, targeted system of care and support resources are being put in from general taxation to fund that will benefit everyone in need of care. I recognise the care system, of which the free personal care announced some of the detailed points about the fact that attendance by the Prime Minister is the latest example. allowance and the DLA can be gateway benefits to I have a key question to ask hon. Members, including other benefits, and that any change to the system will my hon. Friends the Members for Blaydon and for therefore need to take that into account. I am keen to Luton, North (Kelvin Hopkins), who commented on get all of that right. I was pleased that the hon. Member this: given the demographic change that will take place— for Forest of Dean described attendance allowance and there are four people of working age to every pensioner DLA as being folded into a care system that gets now, but that will become two in the future—would it reshaped and redistributed, rather than as being cut, be fair between the generations to place all the burden which is how others have been portraying it. It quite of paying for older people’s care on people of working clearly is not a cut. age? The system would have to be not only fair between Whatever the outcome of the consultation, the principle the generations—I have met many people who feel it will continue to be that people receiving any of the would not be—but sustainable. Can it actually work in relevant benefits at the time of reform will receive an practice, or would the level of the tax burden on the equivalent level of support and protection under a new working age population be so high as to be unacceptable? and better care and support system. We are going to make changes to disability benefits only if we are certain Mr. David Anderson: The Minister has obviously that by doing so we can better support the care needs of made the assumption that the only way to pay for this is older and disabled people. out of income tax. However, people carry on paying tax long after they have retired; everybody pays VAT every To pick up on the point about the cash that one gets day of the week. I made the point in my contribution as an attendance allowance, our intention is that the that one possible approach would be to have a 0.5 per care and support that people will get in the future will cent. rise in VAT, which would put £2.5 billion directly be in the form of a personal budget that can be provided into the care budget. in cash for anybody who wants it that way. We want to see that feature driving forward as we develop our Phil Hope: All I can say to my hon. Friend is that we national care service. Although I am sure that that will are listening hard to what everybody has to say about not have assuaged all the concerns that have been raised the way forward. I have tried to explain why the models today, I hope that those reassurances will help individual that we have proposed are sustainable in the longer concerns. term—over decades of an ageing society—but we welcome I will not take the time of the House by reflecting for any thoughts that people have and any contributions too long on the Government’s concerns about the views that they wish to make. expressed by the Conservatives and its way forward. My I wish to try to address some of the misconceptions view is that the Opposition simply do not get it. A few that are inevitable when a debate of this kind is generated. weeks ago, they announced their scheme for a voluntary First, I wish to say that this is a Green Paper for all payment of £8,000 to provide residential care for those adults; although the media may have portrayed it as a who choose it. We now understand that that scheme social care Green Paper that is just for older people, it is will exclude people with any pre-existing health conditions, not—it is for adults with disabilities too. We are keen to so the number of those who would enter the scheme—let ensure that we have a national care service that rightly alone the number who would voluntarily choose to do provides the choice, control and independent lives that so—is so small that it becomes a scheme for very few adults with disabilities rightly expect. I hope to hear people, which completely ignores the needs of the many. more about that from their organisations in the future. Indeed, nine out of 10 people are not cared for in 545 Social Care Green Paper29 OCTOBER 2009 Social Care Green Paper 546 residential care—they are cared for in their own homes. Committees were set up only recently—do people need That is why we have gone down the route of the free to be taken off them and then put back on? It is always personal care scheme as a major building block for a interesting. Was the hon. Member for Great Grimsby new national care service. (Mr. Mitchell) not happy with the set-up of the Committee; Although I do not know the details, last week the or, did he in some way displease the Whips? Perhaps he hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley), pleased them so much that they took him off the who speaks for the Opposition on these matters, announced Committee. the creation of what appeared to be 153 new local Greg Mulholland (Leeds, North-West) (LD): Does quangos called public health boards, which would just the hon. Gentleman agree that if such a change of be another layer of bureaucracy and complexity of membership is put before the House, we should always funding, which already bedevil the system. I fail to see have an explanation of why one Member is standing how a party that talks publicly about cutting bureaucracy down and another is being put forward? Currently, and waste can immediately create a massive new wasteful these motions are put forward with no discussion and, bureaucracy, but that is for it to defend. given that the Committees are supposed to provide for In drawing this debate to a close, I am delighted to more local accountability and interest, it is unacceptable say that the careandsupport.direct.gov.uk website has not to know why one Member in the area is leaving and had 90,000 hits. Will hon. Members please encourage one is coming forward. all their constituents to take part—if Members have their own website, I ask them please to add a link to the Mr. Randall: I am not sure that I would want an site from theirs—and to get engaged in the debate? Let explanation on every occasion, but, as this opportunity us learn from the inspirational example of my hon. arises from time to time, it is useful just to test whether Friend the Member for Crawley who held a debate in the Government can tell the House why a decision has her constituency. Let us meet local organisations. The been made. I do not labour the point, because, speaking job is clear. I want to build an unstoppable momentum as a furniture retailer, I am very interested in the for reform that will represent the biggest step forward Adjournment debate that is coming next. I shall be for social justice in decades and improve millions of interested to note what the hon. Member for North-West lives. Let us together create a national care service of Leicestershire (David Taylor) says when I read it later in which we can all be proud. Hansard. Question put and agreed to. Mr. Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam) (LD): In the Resolved, hon. Gentleman’s earlier remarks, he suggested that the That this House has considered the matter of the Social Care hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Mr. Mitchell) was Green Paper. being removed from the Committee. In fact, it is the other way around, and I should hope that he would not want to malign the hon. Gentleman unfortunately. REGIONAL SELECT COMMITTEE (WEST MIDLANDS) Mr. Randall: I should like to apologise to the House Ordered, for that mistake. I in no way wanted to mislead Members. That Dr Richard Taylor be a member of the West Midlands The hon. Member for Great Grimsby has obviously Regional Select Committee.—(Mr. Blizzard.) pleased the Whips. I know that he hopes for a career moving forward from the Back Benches, and, at this last moment, perhaps this is still an attempt to do so. I shall REGIONAL SELECT COMMITTEE now sit down, so we might hear from the Government (YORKSHIRE AND THE HUMBER) Front Bencher before we move to the next motion. Motion made, and Question proposed, The Comptroller of Her Majesty’s Household (Mr. John That Mary Creagh be discharged from the Yorkshire and the Spellar): It was very interesting to see the double act Humber Regional Select Committee and Mr Austin Mitchell be between the official Opposition and their errand boys added.—(Mr. Blizzard.) on the Liberal Democrat Bench. Increasingly, they see their role as that of principal understudy to the Conservative 5.55 pm Opposition, and this debate is yet another example of Mr. John Randall (Uxbridge) (Con): I should like to that. Let us be quite clear what the debate is about: the discuss motion 5 on the Order Paper. I rather missed the Conservative Opposition do not like Regional Select opportunity on motion 4, I am afraid: I was sitting back Committees. They have been quite open about that, to and when motion 3 was not moved, I thought that the be fair, but the House has decided. There is also a same thing would happen to motion 4. I was going to well-established procedure, which the hon. Gentleman ask a question of a Minister, but I cannot see the has reflected—along with remarks about my appearance— Leader of the House or the Deputy Leader of the for changing the membership of all Committees. Hon. House on the Government Front Bench. However, Members are just trying to score political points, and the Comptroller of Her Majesty’s Household is there—it not doing it very well. is like looking into a mirror—and I am sure that he will Question put and agreed to. be very capable of answering some questions. As you may know, Mr. Deputy Speaker, my party REGIONAL SELECT COMMITTEE and the Liberal Democrats are not terribly enthused, to (SOUTH WEST) say the least, by the Regional Select Committees. In Motion made, and Question proposed, fact, we have decided not to take part in them. However, That Linda Gilroy be discharged from the South West Regional on the question of motion 5, why at this stage—the Select Committee and Roger Berry be added.—(Mr. Blizzard.) 547 Social Care Green Paper 29 OCTOBER 2009 548

5.59 pm Furniture Industry Mr. John Randall (Uxbridge) (Con): I did not think Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House that the Comptroller of Her Majesty’s Household was do now adjourn.—(Mr. Blizzard.) going to give way on the previous motion, so I thought I would reserve my time here— 6pm Debate adjourned (Standing Order No. 9(3)). David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): Debated to be resumed Monday 2 November. According to figures from the British Furniture Confederation, the UK furniture industry is currently worth nearly £10 billion at retail prices. It directly employs about 131,000 people in 7,500 enterprises and makes a significant, but often overlooked, contribution to the manufacturing economy. Indeed, furniture makers, large and small, represent 5 per cent. of the UK manufacturing base. In addition, the industry supports, and is supported by, a large supply chain of materials suppliers, designers, component manufacturers, distributors, contractors and retailers. Although there is no traditional geographical base for the furniture industry, there are clusters of companies in south Wales, Buckinghamshire and the east midlands, including Art Forma in my constituency and a number of furniture makers in Long Eaton, in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Erewash (Liz Blackman). This is consistent with the fact that our region remains the area with the highest proportionate number of manufacturing workers. The industry is divided between small companies and relatively large concerns. The BFC estimates that 67 per cent. of all furniture manufacturing companies employ fewer than nine people, but also that the largest 300 companies account for 45 per cent. of the total employment. Fifty-eight per cent. of output is for the domestic market, 13 per cent. for the office market, and 29 per cent. for the contract market, which includes Government. The purpose of my debate is to explore the industrial and consumer implications of the sales and promotion tactics far too frequently used by the large furniture companies in selling to the domestic market. It is all about the myth of the half-price, time-limited sale. Anyone who reads a Sunday newspaper or magazine will be familiar with the resounding slap on the kitchen floor of inserted sales and promotional fliers. Invariably, one of these will be from a large furniture company, offering huge reductions on sofas and other furniture as part of a sale that will “end soon”. Typically, the sales periods will be extended and 50 per cent. discounts, even double mark-downs, will be offered to the public for an even longer period still. One of my contentions is that, despite some caveat in tiny print undecipherable to the naked eye, the discounted products are virtually impossible to find retailing at the full price, so there is no way of knowing whether the undiscounted price represents a real saving for the potential consumer or whether it is just a cynical, deceitful “come on”. The current law regarding sales periods only requires the discounted price to have been available for a minimum of 28 days consecutively in the preceding six months. Yet advertising literature from DFS and other companies scrupulously avoids quoting the actual dates for these sales periods. Instead, they have cleverly adopted a policy of “rolling” sales, where the sales offers are switched between product lines. One difficulty that trading standards officials face in effectively tackling this sort of dishonest, manipulative practice is that the pricing practices guide issued to traders is not mandatory. Indeed, the introduction to the guidance, issued by the short-lived, 549 Furniture Industry29 OCTOBER 2009 Furniture Industry 550 now-departed, pre-Mandelsonia Department for Business, action to modernise this aspect of consumer law. Enterprise and Regulatory Reform, is a master-class Encouragingly, it commits to a number of actions, such exercise in lowering regulatory expectations: as modernising trading standards powers and “This Guide recommends to traders a set of good practices in “a new Consumer Rights Bill which will implement the proposed giving the consumer information about prices in various situations. EU Consumer Rights Directive and modernise and simplify UK It has of itself no mandatory force: traders are not under any consumer sales law.” legal obligation to follow the practices recommended.” That is from page 9 of the White Paper, Cm 7669. We No doubt somewhere, in a remote retail outlet during await the content of the Queen’s Speech next month the quietest period of the year, there will be gathering with considerable interest. dust sofas and other furniture at enormous prices that Keen calendar watchers will note that we are heading will then be used as a base for sales elsewhere in the towards Christmas, when the sales and marketing efforts country. of most industries go into overdrive. The big furniture However, there is legislation designed to tackle misleading companies are no exception, and the latest flurry of business in consumer marketing and sales practices. fliers is accompanied by increased broadcast and internet The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations activity. There are just eight weeks to Christmas eve, 2008—CPRs—were implemented to bring the UK in and a visitor to the DFS website sees the prominent line with the provisions of the European Union’s unfair words “Half Price” and “Christmas” on the home page. commercial practices directive. The CPRs prohibit Again, we see the familiar pattern of a high price 31 commercial practices and specifically cover misleading discounted, often by 50 per cent. There is no way that or aggressive promotions. These practices are those consumers can check the accuracy of the amount they deemed to be unfair in all cases, regardless of whether it are being offered as a discount. So far, so bad. would have induced the average consumer to make a The internet clearly offers exciting opportunities for purchase. I believe that the CPRs have particular relevance retailers and consumers, but we must have the regulatory to the sort of “perma-sale” tactic used by DFS and framework in place to protect and promote consumers’ others. Schedule 1 to the CPRs, covering banned practices, rights in the virtual marketplace. As I have said, I am contains the following prohibition: encouraged by the content of the White Paper. Its focus “Falsely stating that a product will only be available for a very on the increasing commercial importance of the internet limited time, or that it will only be available on particular terms for a very limited time, in order to elicit an immediate decision will be much needed, and I am sure that it will offer yet and deprive consumers of sufficient opportunity or time to make another important incentive to vote Labour at the an informed choice.” general election in the spring. To illustrate the type of practice referred to, the To return to more traditional media, I was interested Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on the CPRs cites the to note that the Advertising Standards Authority, hardly example of a trader who falsely tells a consumer that the most tenacious of regulatory bodies, has twice the price of homes will rise in seven days’ time. That upheld complaints from the public in the last year about prohibition should apply to the “specially extended” half-price claims made in DFS’s TV adverts, ruling that sales practice used in adverts such as the one placed by they were misleading. Although neither advert was DFS in The Times on 4 September, which stated: banned by the ASA for using unverifiable price reductions, “Final days to save. There’s only a few days left to enjoy half they point to advertising practices that sail close to the price savings on many great designs and final reductions ...there’s wind, to put it kindly. so much choice and so little time.” DFS has a dubious record in its advertising content, The consumer has no idea whether that is accurate but particularly on television. Members might remember its is clearly being pressurised into making a snap decision advertising campaign from 2005, which featured tatty to purchase rather than an informed choice. Consumer old sofas dumped in canals. It rightly drew criticisms of Focus and others have pointed out that the CPRs do environmental irresponsibility, although the ASA chose not offer direct redress to the consumer. Even if they not to uphold any of the 70 complaints that it attracted have lost money, a consumer cannot take traders to from the public. One is tempted to ask why the ASA court or get direct compensation under the CPRs. exists. Trading standards offices locally and the OFT nationally I am struck by the small print on one of the DFS are charged with making businesses comply with the fliers circulated with last weekend’s newspapers, which regulations, and only they can bring action against stated: traders. Yetto date, the CPRs have been used to prosecute “DFS may alter or extend promotions at any time.” only once. In a country of 60 million people, that is astonishing. It seems pretty clear that the Government That is the proverbial two fingers to consumer rights. need to put the pricing practices guide on a statutory In addition, DFS and other larger furniture companies footing, or at least knit together more effectively the make considerable and somewhat emotional and PPG and the CPRs. At present, they are cumbersome sentimental play of their products being made in the and difficult for trading standards to apply successfully UK. For example: to the widespread use of the dubious practices that I “DFS don’t just sell sofas, they actually make them in their have mentioned. Trading standards departments may own factories in Yorkshire, Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire.” also need more resources to tackle such practices, but I That was in The Sunday Times on 30 August. No doubt surmise that in the current economic climate that is not some of those products are made in the UK but, as a likely to happen any time soon. constituent of mine points out, it is common knowledge That aside, I am pleased to tell my hon. Friend the in the trade that a significant proportion of DFS’s Minister that I take encouragement from the proposals product range is imported from China. That is another contained in July’s White Paper “A Better Deal for example of misleading information being used to cloud Consumers”, which offers a longer-term prospect of consumers’ judgment. 551 Furniture Industry29 OCTOBER 2009 Furniture Industry 552

[David Taylor] Government support to furniture manufacturing were increased, particularly assistance in entering the export Given that it is highly unlikely that the Government market. I look forward to hearing from the Minister will reintroduce retail price maintenance, perhaps we about that. should consider alternative measures to tackle the lack The regional development agencies also have a role to of coherent regulation of commercial sales periods in play, as none at present, apart from Advantage West particular. There are useful examples of straightforward, Midlands, classify furniture as a priority manufacturing pro-consumer regulation of sales periods elsewhere in sector. I hope that my RDA in the east midlands will Europe. For example, in France retailers of furniture—or again consider reclassifying that manufacturing sector anything else—can offer reduced price sales only at as a priority. certain times of the year, with the Government fixing Essentially, we must seek to improve the quality of those dates and notifying the public of them. In Belgium, sales and promotion practices used by the big furniture there are two annual sales periods, preceded by black-out companies. It is not just DFS, but I have used it as an periods when price reductions cannot be announced or example. Related criticism can be made of several other suggested by retailers. aspects of retail, but there is no time in such a debate to I should make it clear, if I have not already done so, draw attention to them. that it is not my intention to denigrate one particular In summary, consumers deserve straightforward and company—though it is a large and obvious company—or reliable information on the products they buy and we all the bigger UK furniture companies. I simply wish to should use the existing regulations to ensure that they point out the unfairness of those misleading sales and get it. If they are unenforceable in the face of artful promotional practices. They are unfair to both the advertising agencies, let us tighten them. Consumers consumer and the smaller furniture manufacturers in deserve a better deal than they receive. Standards must the UK, who can lose out when people decide to buy a be higher. piece of furniture on the basis of misleading information. I am particular pleased to note that my hon. Friend I need not stress that advertising standards and consequent the Minister is replying to this debate. He represents a consumer decisions become ever more important during south Wales seat and will be aware of how important periods of economic recession. and sizeable the furniture industry in his region is, and The UK is the fourth largest consumer of furniture in of the contribution that it makes to the local economy. a global market with an estimated value of $240 billion. He will also be aware, given that he is one of the most So furniture is a big and growing sector with great astute of the newly appointed Ministers, of the dubious significance in domestic economies. Consumption is practices that go on. It is a most unfortunate situation. growing in real terms in all major markets and is We can do something about it, and I have every confidence expected to continue to grow in future. That is primarily that he will do so. due to improvements in standards of living in emerging economies such as China and India, and an increase in 6.15 pm disposable income in many other western countries, The Minister for Further Education, Skills, Apprenticeships particularly accession countries to the EU. The markets and Consumer Affairs (Kevin Brennan): I begin in the exhibiting the highest growth rates are the new EU usual way by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member members and much of Asia, including China. for North-West Leicestershire (David Taylor) on securing At that point, it is important to mention the this debate, which is on a very interesting and important environmental impact of the furniture industry. The topic, and on elucidating the subject in the House with trend of increased imports to the UK from the European his usual eloquence. He was as ever well supported by economic area and beyond confirms the high carbon examples from the real world. I thank him very much cost of an embattled and under-invested domestic furniture for his kind words at the end of his remarks, and for the industry—and, of course, manufacturing in general. welcome he gave the consumer White Paper that the There is no doubt that the UK furniture industry faces Government published earlier in the year. tough competition for a proportion of the growing When to hold a sale or a sales promotion is a commercial international market. For example, it is estimated that a decision for a business. For that reason, in general, the Chinese factory producing like-for-like products has a Government do not believe that it would be in consumers’ 20 to 25 per cent. cost advantage over its UK counterpart interests to follow some of the practices of our European at factory gate prices. Competition is also coming from partners which my hon. Friend outlined and to restrict within the EU, with the Polish furniture industry in sales periods to certain times of the year. I am sure that particular enjoying high levels of investment and growth many consumers benefit from, and look forward to, the in recent years. Fundamentally, this debate is an argument weekend sales that many retailers hold in the run-up to not for protectionism but for the larger manufacturers Christmas. and retailers to be more truthful and honest with domestic However, the law requires sales to be conducted consumers. Those are supposed to be two of the four honestly and fairly. We all love a bargain, but sales prime guidelines for the Advertising Standards Authority— should not unfairly mislead consumers into believing “legal, decent, truthful and honest.” Truth and honesty that they are getting one when they are not. As my hon. are too frequently absent from furniture advertising. Friend says, that is especially important given that the Unfortunately, smaller furniture companies are finding economic downturn is putting greater pressure on household it increasingly difficult to compete domestically or enter budgets. I share his concerns about whether that type of the export market. Yet they have the skills and expertise fair trading is the reality in certain sectors—he highlighted to adapt constantly to a rapidly changing market, which the furniture sector. We know that many consumers responds to contemporary trends in fashion, art and have the impression that some sales last all year round, culture. That difficulty could be alleviated somewhat if which makes it difficult for them to know whether the 553 Furniture Industry29 OCTOBER 2009 Furniture Industry 554 reductions claimed are genuine. Indeed, it is questionable However, the new pricing practices guide significantly whether any consumers would pay the higher prices tightens the guidance compared with the code of practice against which the reductions are claimed. on price indications, which it replaced. This new guidance The main legislation intended to protect consumers is especially pertinent to the length of time businesses from underhand marketing and sales tactics is the Consumer should advertise a price reduction. The old code of Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, which practice included recommended practice where a trader came into force in May of that year. The regulations compares a current price with a previous one. The ban traders in all sectors from engaging in unfair commercial recommended practice was that the price used as the practices with consumers, and cover acts or omissions basis for comparison should have been the most recent by a trader directly connected to the promotion, sale or price at which the product was available for at least supply of products to or from consumers. 28 consecutive days in the previous six months. That The consumer protection regulations are principles-based enabled some traders to argue that they were adhering and operate flexibly to catch unfair practices. At their to the letter, if not the spirit, of the code by having a heart is a general ban on the use of unfair commercial high price for one month and then reducing the price practices. That is supplemented with more detailed for the following five months. Because the code had rules on practices that mislead by action or omission, evidential effect in court, this made trading standards and on aggressive selling techniques. They also contain reluctant to challenge that practice. a schedule of 31 specific practices that are banned We are also aware that some furniture retailers would outright. offer a small proportion of their stock at a higher price Misleading consumers about the price of a product, for one month. That enabled them to have “rolling” or of the existence of a specific price advantage, is one sales, in which the sales offers were switched between type of unfair commercial practice that is banned by product lines. The new pricing practices guide says that the CPRs; another is misleading consumers about the the period of time for which the lower price will be geographical or commercial origin of a product. The available should not be so long that the comparison blacklisted practice to which my hon. Friend referred becomes misleading. It recommends that generally the may also apply when a promotion falsely claims that the period of time for which the lower price will be available offer will end very shortly, so as to elicit an immediate should not be more than that for which the higher price decision by consumers to make a purchase. was available. I take my hon. Friend’s point about the The regulations apply to all businesses, irrespective of lack of action so far, but we hope that this change will whether they sell on the internet or the high street. A encourage enforcers to tackle claimed price reductions breach is generally a criminal offence. Enforcers can that have gone on for so long that they have become also apply to the courts for enforcement orders, equivalent misleading. to injunctions, to stop the use of unfair commercial In addition, the higher price should be a genuine practices. As my hon. Friend rightly pointed out, the price at which the trader could reasonably expect to sell OFT and local authority trading standards services significant quantities of the goods. In determining whether have a duty to enforce the CPRs. In addition, my it was reasonable to expect that goods could be sold at Department issued a pricing practices guide for traders the higher price in significant numbers, all the relevant at the same time that the regulations came into force— circumstances would need to be taken into consideration. It could be argued that a store was trading unfairly if David Taylor: The Minister raises the interesting point the previous higher price was not comparable to that local trading standards have that duty, although it competitors’ prices at the time or if relatively few goods is debatable whether they have the resources to carry it were sold at that price. out. However, in an internet era, it is difficult to know which trading standards authority should examine the In summary, the CPRs ban any commercial practice trading practices that are causing concern. that misleads consumers about the price of goods and services or the existence of a specific price advantage. I Kevin Brennan: The Government recognise that and, hope that that reassures my hon. Friend that enforcers as my hon. Friend said in his speech, the consumer already have the powers to tackle misleading sale offers White Paper talks about some of the challenges of by furniture retailers, although I take his point, which consumer protection in the internet age, and some of he made forcefully and eloquently, that so far there have the measures that we are planning to put into force to been few actions of that kind. I take this opportunity to tackle some of the problems that arise when selling over say that the powers are in place, and I encourage enforcers, the internet. In addition, the White Paper envisages a when they find that such practices are being carried out, future consumer rights Bill and the post of consumer to use those powers in the manner intended by the advocate, empowered to take up cases on behalf of Government and Parliament. consumers in a new way, especially in cases involving a I referred earlier to the consumer White Paper, which general interest. my hon. Friend mentioned. A future consumer rights As I was saying, the pricing practices guide recommends Bill could help to strengthen further consumer protection to traders a set of good practices in giving consumers regarding such practices. In particular, the consumer information about prices in various situations. The CPRs advocate envisaged in the White Paper will be empowered implement the EU unfair commercial practices directive, to take up cases on behalf of consumers. which sets out rules on business-to-consumer commercial practices that all member states must apply. As a full David Taylor: I am encouraged by what the Minister harmonisation measure, it does not allow member states is saying, but does he acknowledge that, of all the areas to apply stricter provisions in the area in which the of retailing for which legislation is in place to eliminate directive applies. It would not therefore be possible to poor marketing practice, furniture is one of the most make the pricing practices guide mandatory, much as obvious and common areas where consumers potentially my hon. Friend might like that. are not getting the information that they deserve and 555 Furniture Industry29 OCTOBER 2009 Furniture Industry 556

[David Taylor] the importance of the industry. The “Real Help Now” scheme for business is also available to companies from require to come to a sensible purchasing decision? Should the furniture sector, and the furniture manufacturing he not focus on furniture before he turns to any other sector can access the manufacturing advisory service area of retailing activity? and UKFirst—the furniture industry forum—which can offer best practice advice to furniture manufacturers Kevin Brennan: Yes, I acknowledge that. I also to help to improve their competitive position. acknowledged at the beginning of my remarks that there was a particular issue with promotions from the I once more congratulate my hon. Friend on securing furniture manufacturing industry. My hon. Friend this debate and on raising a very important issue. I have mentioned the industry in this country, and in particular tried to confirm that the powers are in place to deal with at the end of his remarks he rightly noted that I am that issue. aware of the furniture manufacturing industry in south Wales. I recognise that imports from low-cost countries David Taylor: Would the Minister be willing to meet can represent a significant challenge to all parts of UK in his office me and one or two representatives at the manufacturing, particularly the furniture manufacturing smaller end of furniture manufacturing and retailing to industry. explore in a little more detail some of the issues that I The Government are taking action through the introduced briefly in this debate? manufacturing strategy to help companies to compete on value rather than low wages. That strategy was Kevin Brennan: I would be happy to meet my hon. launched in September 2008 and brings together Friend together with representatives from the industry £150 million of support for the medium term to help to discuss the points discussed principally concerning businesses to access increased skills and technology consumer issues—in my case—although he might have support. The annual output from the UK furniture to meet one of our hon. Friends if he wants to discuss manufacturing industry is worth nearly £10 billion, and manufacturing issues. However, I am sure that one of the industry employs directly about 124,000 people my ministerial colleagues would be prepared to meet within 7,500 enterprises and supports a large supply him as well, if that was the tone of the meeting. chain comprising of materials, suppliers, component To conclude, the powers are in place and the enforcers manufacturers, designers, distributors, contractors and can use them. Any retailers engaging in such practices retailers. should look carefully at their practices and ensure that Many of those are small businesses, as my hon. they are— Friend is right to point out. About 67 per cent. of all furniture manufacturing concerns employ fewer than 6.30 pm nine people. Also, however, the largest 300 companies House adjourned without Question put (Standing Order account for 45 per cent. of total employment. I acknowledge No. 9(7)). 143WH 29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 144WH

of the UK’s gas needs could be met from imports by Westminster Hall 2020. That is a remarkable change-around from being a net exporter of gas. Thursday 29 October 2009 The situation is highlighted and put into profile by the difficulties with the transmission and export of gas. The Minister will have followed the dispute between [SIR NICHOLAS WINTERTON in the Chair] Russia and Ukraine about the transport of gas, which was an issue primarily for Ukraine but one that affected Oil and Gas major economies in western Europe. I am interested in [Relevant documents: First Report from the Energy and the gas industry in Russia. Gazprom is a good company Climate Change Committee, on UK Offshore Oil and in many respects, but people who have dealings with it Gas, HC 341-I, and the Government response, HC 1010.] and the Russian economy are concerned about the transparency and openness of the gas market there. To Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting be so heavily dependent on gas from abroad, particularly be now adjourned.—(Steve McCabe.) from Russia, may not be a wise way forward. 2.30 pm Of course, Gazprom always tells me that the majority of its product goes to the west. However, there is a ready Paddy Tipping (Sherwood) (Lab): I am delighted to market to the east as well, so Russia is not dependent on speak about the first report of the Energy and Climate the market in western Europe. Change Committee. As the first report of this new Select Committee, it is the first bit of work that we have Simon Hughes (North Southwark and Bermondsey) undertaken, and we now have a 100 per cent. record: we (LD): I appreciate that this debate is about UK offshore have produced a report and are having a debate about it oil and gas, but the hon. Gentleman rightly puts the in Westminster Hall. subject in the context of the wider European and global Perhaps I could just say a few words about the Select oil and gas industry. Did his Committee form the view Committee’s inquiry. It involved three public evidence during its inquiry that it would be in the interests of the sessions in March, one of which was held in Aberdeen. UK, as well as more widely, that there is a much more I believe that there is a strong desire across the House clearly integrated European energy policy to give the for Select Committees to get out and about and take continent, as well as the UK, security of supply? evidence elsewhere. We had a range of witnesses: the Oil and Gas Independents Association, the Royal Society Paddy Tipping: Those of us who believe in the benefits for the Protection of Birds, Professor Alexander Kemp, of the European Union believe that that issue comes who also acted as an adviser to the Committee, the high up the agenda. The Committee came to no formal trade association Oil and Gas UK, and the Minister of decision about it, but we hope to visit Brussels soon to State, Department of Health, the right hon. and learned discuss that exact point, among others. If we had a Member for North Warwickshire (Mr. O’Brien), who more transparent gas market across Europe, for which was then the Minister for Energy and E-Commerce, and many of us have argued for a long time—that has been his officials. In Aberdeen, the Committee had a breakfast the Commission’s position for as long as I can remember, meeting hosted by the Scottish Council for Development and it has been promised for at least a decade—we and Industry that brought together more than 50 individuals could make some progress. who work in the oil and gas sector and related businesses, The notion of European direction on a European and we visited Subsea UK—the trade body that represents market and transmission system makes a great deal of those who work in the subsea supply chain. sense long-term for Europe and particularly for the The Select Committee’s report, which was unanimous— UK. But of course, one thing that makes it so significant there was a lively discussion around its conclusion—was is that, because we have reserves in the North sea, the published on 30 June. Perhaps I could highlight briefly gas storage facilities here in the UK have been limited. some of the issues that are contained in it. The Select Again, using the Department’s own figures, there is Committee believes that we must move to a low-carbon storage for 13 days’ supply of gas in the UK, compared economy, and that we must decarbonise our generating with 99 in Germany and 122 in France. industry. At the same time, there is practical acknowledgment that the UK continental shelf will There is recognition that more needs to be done. continue to provide oil and gas resources for a long There are a number of planning applications in for new time. It is vital, therefore, that we make best use of those projects of this kind, but some are facing real difficulty resources. and real objections. Faced with a heavy winter, there are concerns, which are shared across the industry, that the We live in a difficult time for the economy and the present storage capacity is not sufficient. Therefore, environment. There are real concerns about the future being able to extract more, more quickly from the UK’s of our energy policy. In broad terms, the Government’s own reserves makes a great deal of sense. The Prime energy policy depends on three pillars: first, the need to Minister’s own adviser, in the Wicks report, has just combat climate change; secondly, affordable products looked at this issue. I suspect that there has been far too for consumers; and thirdly, security of supply. It is little discussion about the importance of security of security of supply that I want to turn to first. supply, compared to climate change, but that is a real, The UK has traditionally been a net exporter of gas pressing issue. I say gently to the Minister and his and oil, but the situation has changed and is continuing Secretary of State that, if the lights go off in the UK, it to change rapidly. Last year, in 2008-09, 40 per cent. of will not be the chief executive of E.ON UK, Paul our gas was imported, and figures from the Department Golby, who is called to account, but the Minister and of Energy and Climate Change suggest that 60 per cent. his officials. 145WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 146WH

Charles Hendry (Wealden) (Con): The Minister will The area west of Shetland is an important resource be long gone by then. that provides 20 per cent. of our future needs. It is important that there is a strategic view on how we can Paddy Tipping: Yes, he would be in the firing line. He get into that field, discover oil—discoveries are being is coping well with his new tasks, but let me bring this made—and bring it back. The Government have a role point to the forefront of his mind. to play in this. This takes us to the heart of the argument The second issue that we must take into account, on small government and big government. We have which the Committee considered, is the importance of intervened in a big way in the bank sector. The Government gas and oil revenues in the UK. The industry employs will have to think through carefully what their role is in about 350,000 people, so it is a significant employer, respect of the oil and gas sector and how far they will particularly in the Aberdeen area. The industry play a more interventionist, positive role. acknowledges and predicts tough times ahead over the next two years: there is a suggestion that 14 per cent. of We received evidence on the environment. Many those jobs could be lost in that time. There is an environmental organisations are, to put it bluntly, giving argument for moving people away from working in the the oil and gas industry a bad press, but the record on oil and gas industry into offshore renewables and carbon the ground or out at sea is not bad. The big companies capture and storage; but ultimately, we need to acknowledge are keen to meet their environmental responsibilities. the importance of the industry for our economy. The industry feels that it has done a lot, but it is an area As I have said, oil and gas production is declining. It that needs careful consideration. peaked in 1999 and is declining by about 5 per cent. Finally, the Select Committee was interested in the annually. There are various estimates of the amount of development of carbon capture and storage, which the oil and gas remaining, ranging from around 11 billion Government are also interested in and making progress to 37 billion barrels of oil equivalent. That is a marked on. However, although they describe themselves as a gap. The Government—the Department—take a mid-term world leader in that regard, I am not sure whether that estimate, which might be a sensible way of going forward. is so. The notion that we can capture carbon from A lot of the discussion about future extraction depends, coal-fired power stations and sequestrate it into former of course, on the price of oil and gas. But it would make oil fields is good for the coal industry and could be sense to try to have further, more detailed and precise good for the oil and gas industry. The Government are estimates on the way forward. committed to going forward on this issue. Currently, The Select Committee commented that the industry there is a competition to try to identify four pilots for faces a demonstration projects. However, I say gently to the “quadruple whammy”— Minister that, at the moment, this appears to be a taking a phrase from your party, Sir Nicholas— competition without a finishing line and that the finishing “of high costs, low prices, lack of affordable credit and a global line has been moved on a number of occasions. recession.” If the Government want to make a proud claim that So we need to be clear that the industry faces a tough they are a world leader, they need to match their rhetoric time. with reality. It will be good for the oil industry if we can Sir Nicholas Winterton (in the Chair): Order. Just for do that and good for my area, too. Perhaps I can make a accuracy, in the Chair, I have no political party: I am local point. Harworth colliery in Nottinghamshire is entirely unbiased, and I listen with an open mind and presently mothballed, and it will take £200 million to open ears to everything that is said. access new coal reserves there. UK Coal is confident that it can do it, but is finding it difficult in the present Paddy Tipping: I know that to be the case, Sir Nicholas. financial climate to raise money from the market. There I have heard you make comments, in the Chair and is a discussion with the European Investment Bank elsewhere, about various parties, including your own. about making that money available. A number of hurdles That reflects a lack of partisanship. have been jumped; but ultimately, the EIB is asking The industry acknowledges that there are real problems whether the coal can be burned more cleanly. At present, and says that, by 2010, 50,000 jobs could disappear. So, there is nowhere in the UK where coal can be burned for the industry, the issue of credit is live and important. using clean technology or carbon capture and sequestration. Some banks—a limited number—are prepared to invest Although there is rhetoric on carbon capture and storage, for the future, but the sector faces a tough time for many of us believe that much more needs to be done credit, as does all industry. much more quickly. There was a long discussion in the Select Committee Despite criticisms, the Government responded favourably about the measures in the 2009 Budget, and we received to the report, and produced their response on 16 October. a lot of evidence about it, particularly about a new They welcomed it, and I shall pick up one or two points initiative called the field allowance, which was generally from their response. They accepted that we must maximise welcomed, to allow the development of and extraction resources from existing gas and oil fields and said that from new fields. But the Select Committee’s view is that they would work with the industry to produce that does not go far enough. It is early days for that “a more effective performance framework…which would focus initiative, which concentrates on new development. We on more accountable measures, or a basket of measures.” need to consider carefully making best use of and maximising the resources from existing, established oil Will the Minister tell us today what that basket of fields. The field allowance does not do that, and there is measures might be? There is agreement in principle on no agreement across the sector that the major area left the way forward, but it is incumbent on the Government for development west of Shetland will be brought forward to state clearly for the oil and gas industry how it might by the use of field allowances. go forward. 147WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 148WH

The Government also said, to my surprise, that Government’s rhetoric and good intent must be matched complaints from the oil and gas industry about difficulties with real action. The report sets out some steps for real with their banking facilities and raising capital for new action. The Government are on the road, and I hope development that they will look closely at the recommendations, “do not seem to differ significantly from” work with the industry and ensure that we maximise the other parts of the economy.In fairness, people in Aberdeen reserves that are left for us and our children. could argue that the Government have provided major aid in a variety of ways to the car industry. They have Several hon. Members rose— some responsibility, given that oil and gas are strategic assets, to consider carefully how more readily available Sir Nicholas Winterton (in the Chair): Order. I intend finance could be found for the industry to move into the to call the Minister last, and he will be preceded by Her future. A few of us of a more radical hue find it hard to Majesty’s Opposition spokesman, who will be preceded understand why, as a major shareholder in banks, the by the hon. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey Chancellor cannot influence better behaviour. Shareholders (Simon Hughes). I will also call other hon. Members can argue for changes, and I am not convinced that we who catch my eye. are using the leverage that we undoubtedly have to produce better results. Simon Hughes: On a point of order, Sir Nicholas. Following that indication, will you reconsider and give A further area of discussion is the notion of using a permission for the Minister to speak next, because the common infrastructure and common pipes when developing Government have given their response, and then to oil and gas fields, and it makes sense to use commonality speak at the end of the debate, with your leave and that of infrastructure whenever possible. There have been of the House? It might be helpful for colleagues to hear difficulties in companies agreeing to that, but there is a the Minister’s response, so that they may then respond. structure for forcing that through. The Government We have seen the Government’s written response to the possess reserve powers, but they have never been used. report and I think that there would be time for the In their response, the Government state that they are Minister, as well as the Committee Chairman, to wind up. “working with the industry, through improving guidance…and through other initiatives, to strengthen the voluntary arrangements”. Sir Nicholas Winterton (in the Chair): I do not believe The Committee and I, and particularly the industry, that that suggestion has ever been made to me during would be interested to know what steps the Government all the years that I have been a member of the Chairmen’s intend to take. Panel, but I am happy to work with the House on this Taxation and the introduction of field allowances matter. If hon. Members believe that it would be helpful have been an issue. I have acknowledged that these are for the Minster to speak next, I will be happy to call early days for seeing how that develops, but the Government him, if he is prepared to speak. have said that they The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Energy “will continue to review the effectiveness of the field allowance”. and Climate Change (Mr. David Kidney) indicated assent. There may be an opportunity for the Minister to make a lengthy reply, and again it would be helpful if he used Sir Nicholas Winterton (in the Chair): Given the that opportunity. He will say that it is a matter for the number of hon. Members present, it may be possible, Treasury, not for him, but I am keen to know what with the permission of the House, for the Minster to representations the Department are making to the Treasury. speak again at the end. We can be flexible in the I turn to the marine environment. You will know, Sir Chamber to meet the requirements of hon. Members Nicholas, as will hon. Members in the Chamber, that who are participating in the debate. this week the House agreed radical and landmark legislation in the Marine and Coastal Access Bill. The Minister’s 2.59 pm Parliamentary Private Secretary has been involved in that, and it gave us the opportunity to consider the Mr. Kidney: I am pleased to follow my hon. Friend marine environment in detail. Extraction west of Shetland the Member for Sherwood (Paddy Tipping), who is so will, by definition, produce major environmental issues ably now chairing the Select Committee. I enjoyed that must be considered carefully. The Government reading its report on UK offshore oil and gas, and I am have a lot of information, as have the oil companies, glad that the Chamber has the opportunity to debate it, and a lot of survey work has been done; but ultimately, and to highlight the huge contribution that the North in the light of the new legislation, the Government sea and the oil and gas industry make to UK energy should practice what they preach and consider a needs and our economy. comprehensive study of environmental factors and The oil and gas industry in the UK is one of our most constraints west of Shetland if we are to balance economic important and impressive industries. Since the beginning growth and environmental protection. It is important to of offshore development four decades ago, we have seen have the best possible knowledge. a sequence of major, often unprecedented engineering I welcome the work that my Committee colleagues projects, requiring huge investments and repeatedly have done and the evidence that was provided by our groundbreaking innovation. I pay tribute to the enterprise witnesses. I also welcome the Government’s response; and commitment of the companies and individuals who but ultimately, our long-term interest is to ensure that have made that possible. the UK really does have security of supply.The Government We cannot forget the courage of those who work in must treat the matter extremely seriously, acknowledge this very hostile environment. Indeed, some have tragically the problem and discuss the way forward. As always lost their lives in the pursuit of exploring for and with the energy industry, there is a view that the producing this vital national resource. The oil industry 149WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 150WH

[Mr. David Kidney] covering 257 blocks. I can confirm that work is being taken forward so that we should be in a position to does not always receive the attention that it deserves. As announce a new, 26th round in January. we enter a new era of energy developments in the UK, The industry has, of course, felt the effects of the in which the skills, enterprise and commitment of the financial crisis, and I will say something later about oil and gas industry will surely find new application, we those effects and our response to them. In addition, the should be proud of it and take full note of what it has rollercoaster of rising and falling oil prices has impacted already achieved. on some investment decisions and on the pace of As the Select Committee recognises, even though development. However, the past few months have seen indigenous production is declining, UK oil and gas more financing activity, and a number of relatively big remain the major constituent of the UK energy mix. North sea projects are in prospect. That said, we are not They currently provide for about two thirds of the taking anything for granted. We continue to monitor nation’s primary energy needs. By 2020, it is likely that exploration levels. They fell in the first half of the year, well over half our energy use will still be fuelled by oil but I am glad to say that there has been a significant and gas, half of which might be from UK production. recovery in the third quarter, when 27 new wells were Supporting about 450,000 jobs—including those that started, compared to 29 in the first half. rely on the industry—and with annual expenditure of about £10 billion, the UK oil and gas industry makes a Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) massive contribution to our economy. Indeed, there is (LD): How many of those wells were exploration wells? no doubt about the industry’s world-class credentials. Its reputation for meeting the challenges from harsh operating conditions and coming up with workable Mr. Kidney: I shall have to come back to the hon. solutions to continuing technological challenges sets it Gentleman in a moment with the figure, but I know the apart as one of the most dynamic and successful industries point that he is making: that exploration is key and in the world. numbers are down. I am prepared to accept that point, The North sea still offers many very good investment but on the figure, I hope that he will allow me to come opportunities and it is important to all of us that those back to him in a while. We intend to maintain momentum are encouraged, not deterred. Looking at reserves, we by launching, as I mentioned, a 26th offshore licensing have, as my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood said, round next January. about 20 billion barrels of oil equivalent, or perhaps I want to deal directly with the issue of the area west more, remaining to be produced. A key Government of Shetland. We are working with the industry to bring aim is to ensure that the UK realises the full value of its forward development west of Shetland, where about oil and gas resources. 15 per cent. of remaining UK reserves are thought to We have a clear strategy to maximise the benefits to lie. It is vital that we unlock the gas potential west of the UK of our hydrocarbon resources. Working closely Shetland, and a timetable has been established. As my with the industry, we are seeking more exploration and predecessor mentioned in evidence to the Select Committee, new developments; we are seeking to get the best value Total has commissioned basic engineering studies in from existing acreage and existing developments; and respect of development of the Laggan and Tormore we are keeping the fiscal regime under review to ensure fields, with capacity for further fields in that area. The that it provides the right incentives for continuing participants are moving towards a decision on development investment. in 2010, which we expect will be followed by a development plan submitted to DECC. I want to say something about new exploration and development. We continue to hold regular offshore The area west of Shetland has been extensively surveyed licensing rounds, with the aim of making as much in one of the largest and most comprehensive marine acreage available as possible for new exploration. We surveys undertaken for the offshore oil and gas industry. have taken a number of steps in recent years to offer That work has been updated and extended by subsequent more flexibility in licensing to attract the widest possible work carried out for the Department within the strategic range of players. For example, we introduced the promote environmental assessment framework. Future work will licence, at one 10th of the cost of a traditional licence, seek to ensure that appropriate environmental data for to allow smaller investors to get involved. There is also that area are kept up to date. the frontier licence—covering areas such as west of Shetland—which initially offers a larger amount of Simon Hughes: I am not an expert on this issue; my acreage and so gives licensees a better chance during the hon. Friend the Member for Orkney and Shetland appraisal process to identify exploration potential in (Mr. Carmichael) is an expert on it, as is our friend those areas, where the geology is less well known and Tavish Scott, our party leader in Scotland. However, I not so clearly defined. understand that one of the issues rightfully preoccupying All those initiatives have led to significant renewed people in Shetland in particular and Scotland in general interest in the North sea in recent years. In fact, recent is that some of the explorations or the potential supply licensing rounds have been some of the most successful might be just within or just outside our territorial ever. In the 24th round, we awarded 150 licences to 104 waters. Will the Minister tell us whether any discussions companies. Our 25th round offered a record-breaking are already in place with the Faroese authorities, which 2,297 blocks or part-blocks for exploration, and received are the other side of the line, so that there are efficiencies a record number of applications. As a result, late last of scale and intelligent conversations about maximising year we were able to offer for award the highest number the benefit to everyone of any exploration going on of licences ever—171 new licences to 99 companies, currently west of Shetland? 151WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 152WH

Mr. Kidney: There certainly is work to be done in the facilities upgrades and to promote low-cost methods area that the hon. Gentleman mentions. On the specific and collaborative pilots to share costs. My Department point about discussions with other authorities, I need is now working closely with the industry to take forward again to take advice and perhaps I shall be able to come the subjects that were discussed. back to him on that point in a moment. It is a good one On access to existing infrastructure, we are promoting and I certainly endorse what he says about the expert new action to facilitate fair and reasonable access. In knowledge of the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland particular, my officials have embarked on a series of (Mr. Carmichael). one-to-one meetings with the directors of companies Mr. Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): Before the Minister that own and operate North sea pipelines and infrastructure. moves on from discussing the area west of Shetland, I The key aim is to ensure that smaller players with want to point out that one issue that the Select Committee development options can get access to infrastructure came across was that many of the finds west of Shetland within reasonable time scales and on fair terms. I recognise are much smaller than traditional North sea finds, and that that is a long-standing issue for the industry and there is huge concern about the infrastructure needed that responsibility for a successful outcome lies largely for smaller companies to develop those. Will the Minister on the industry’s shoulders. Of course, an industry code tell us whether there have been any discussions on that? of practice and guidance from the Secretary of State He mentioned Total and the studies in that respect. Has provide a framework for decision making, but we continue there been any discussion with the smaller companies to make it clear that the Government would be prepared about how they might join in and how to ensure that to intervene in a case if stalemate were reached between they have the infrastructure to develop smaller fields? an infrastructure owner and the operator of a development that required access. Mr. Kidney: The hon. Gentleman raises two issues. One is the viability of constructing new infrastructure, Sir Robert Smith: Although the long-stop exists for based on projections of what returns might be had from companies to challenge something through that formal the development. The other issue is the access of smaller process, that has never actually happened. An optimist players to that infrastructure if they are involved. If I might say that that is because everything is going so may, I shall come later to what I can say on access to swimmingly that it is not necessary, but the feedback infrastructure. Clearly, the discussions that we have from those trying to get access is that people are reticent with the potential collaborators in the development to go to a formal process. In January 2009, the Minister include the first of those points—the viability of the wrote to companies to engage on the issue, but is there scheme and what it will take for it to be viable. I am sure any feedback on how that engagement is going? that the hon. Gentleman appreciates that we have such Mr. Kidney: Obviously, I did not write that letter, discussions with the proposed developers all the time. because I was not a Minister in January—the hon. I want to move on to the issue of making the most of Gentleman will no doubt say that that is a shame. The existing licensed areas and developments. We continue one-to-one meetings are a result of the engagement that our drive to identify and carefully scrutinise fallow began with those letters and they are continuing. We are acreage and discoveries. Where it is clear that no work keen to ensure that the industry understands exactly plans exist, licensees are encouraged to relinquish the how the Secretary of State would respond if asked to licence, so that such acreage can be made available use his powers. The hon. Gentleman and my hon. again via our licensing rounds. That allows others the Friend the Member for Sherwood are absolutely right chance to bid for such acreage and exploit it. that no one has yet asked him to exercise his powers, We have also taken action with industry to improve and we all understand the pressures that mean that oil and gas recovery from existing brown fields. We have people would not want to ask. Nevertheless, we have a rolling programme and we meet all the North sea field those powers. operators regularly to consider fields’ performance and The Secretary of State’s previous guidance was quite to help to identify ways in which long-term production helpful in terms of the charging activities of those who levels might be increased. Taking a regular look at older give access to infrastructure. If new obstacles are arising, producing fields, a number of operators have successfully we will be happy to look at ways of ensuring that people increased production levels through refreshed seismic understand how the Secretary of State would approach and geological interpretation, additional drilling, further the issue. At the moment, however, the meetings are investment in platform facilities and the use of new going extremely well, and a further understanding between technologies. us and the industry may emerge as a result. I hope that With production levels declining overall, it is important that is helpful to the hon. Gentleman. We hope that, as that the industry considers how enhanced oil recovery a result of our frank discussions with infrastructure techniques might improve overall recovery from North owners, the industry can use the code of practice principles sea fields. The potential exists to tap more than 1 billion to ensure that nobody needs to come to the Secretary of extra barrels using enhanced oil recovery. The Energy State, but we stand ready if somebody does. Minister, Lord Hunt, chaired a session on the subject For the common good of maximising all our reserves, with a number of key operators in Aberdeen. It proved it is vital that smaller developments within the economic a very useful discussion, bringing a sharper focus to reach of existing pipelines are not stranded because some of the key challenges and stimulating ideas for they cannot obtain access, and we will be keeping a overcoming some of the obstacles. close eye on progress to ensure that that does not For example, it was agreed that enhanced oil recovery happen. can be more difficult for mature fields and that issues exist around project economics and the availability of Mr. Weir: I am not entirely clear about how we have injection fluid. It was also recognised that research is moved on. In the evidence before us, the small operators needed into ways to reduce the cost and weight of and Oil and Gas UK acknowledge that the existing 153WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 154WH

[Mr. Mike Weir] Simon Hughes: This is just a reflection really. When, as a result of pressure, the Government varied the system—discussion with each other, with the long-stop incentive for people to invest in the renewables industry, of approaching the Government, as the hon. Member people were fairly sceptical about whether that would for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine said—is not meet the concern that people were not investing. However, working satisfactorily. What difference will the new it produced quite a significant positive response, and I system make? The independents suggest that we should compliment the Government on that. I am sure that go as far as legislation for common carriers. There colleagues from Scotland will make this point more seems to be a huge gap, and I am not entirely clear from strongly than me, but let me say that it does not take what the Minister has said what progress has been much Government fiscal encouragement to produce the made. investment response that people are calling for. I hope that the Treasury understands that, that it is sympathetic Mr. Kidney: Let me make it clear to the hon. Gentleman to such calls and that it will respond to them in the that we are not proposing further legislation at this months between now and the general election. point. The discussions that we are having on the basis of Mr. Kidney: The hon. Gentleman should spit it out: the code of practice and the Secretary of State’s guidance— the Government’s action was a success, and if we tell the perhaps with an opportunity to update in 2010—will be Treasury, officials there might be all the more willing to sufficient. If somebody wants the clarification of a talk positively in the way that he indicates. That is a decision by the Secretary of State, we will very much good point for us all to make. I have just recalled that welcome their asking for such a decision. No one has the answer to the question about the number of exploration come forward yet, but if they do, we will welcome the wells in the third quarter of the year was seven, as opportunity to give a ruling, which would then set a against nine in the whole of the first half, which fits precedent for the entire industry. Unfortunately, that with the picture of things picking up. has not happened so far. The discussions that I have described, and the potential for updating the Secretary I want to deal with the matter of the environment. A of State’s guidance, are where we are in the process. comprehensive framework of environmental protection measures has been developed to minimise the impact of I was asked a little while ago about taxation. My oil and gas activities. That is embodied in bespoke oil predecessor was quite robust with the Committee on and gas legislation, consistent with and in large part this issue and was not going to talk about it when he derived from the legislative framework of the European came to give evidence. However, I have specifically Community. All activities that could have an impact on cleared the text that I am about to deliver with the the environment are subject to rigorous assessment, and Treasury, so I will be speaking with one voice with my significant activities are controlled through the issue of colleagues there. Of course, taxation policy is a matter permits, consents or approvals. There is also an inspection for Treasury Ministers, but the Committee will be aware and enforcement regime in place to confirm compliance that the Chancellor this year introduced a new field with the conditions included in the environmental approvals. allowance—the consultation document called it a value That robust regime is reflected by the industry’s performance allowance, and some people still use that term, but it is and the UK has a good environmental record. I noted, the same thing—to encourage smaller or more technically in reading the Committee’s report, that although suggestions challenging fields to be brought into production. had been put to it about non-compliance with conditions The Chancellor himself visited a North sea installation on environmental matters, the Committee found the —Shearwater—earlier this month, so he is well aware industry to have a good record. I am grateful that it that conditions in the North sea are constantly evolving came to that conclusion. and that we have to ask ourselves whether the tax The Chairman also raised the issue of carbon capture regime is right. He thinks, and I think, that it is important and storage, which is something in which I, too, am that the Government and industry work together on interested. Looking further ahead, we believe that carbon these issues. Stakeholders discuss a number of specific capture and storage will be one of the key technologies issues arising from the Budget 2009 package with DECC that will help the UK to meet its carbon reduction and Treasury Ministers and officials. Those discussions targets. The North sea has the potential to store more are ongoing and help to inform Government thinking. I than 100 years’ worth of UK power station CO2 emissions. can assure the Committee that the Government will Many in the oil and gas industry will have the knowledge keep the North sea fiscal regime under review and will and expertise to help us to realise that potential. However, monitor the impact on activity in the North sea of the the industry is keen, among other things, to get a clear package of changes introduced at Budget 2009. If there regulatory regime for CCS. Last month my Department is a case for further change to the regime to meet our issued a formal consultation on how we propose to objective of maximising economic production from the license the storage of CO2. We are keen to have comments North sea, the Government will be prepared to act. I from industry and stakeholders by the end of the year, hope that that is a helpful response to the request from so that we can move forward with the formulation of my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood. the regulations. We continue to work with the industry through PILOT The significance of a competitive and competent —the joint Government and industry oil and gas forum supply chain to the success of an oil basin is often —to secure the long-term future of the UK continental underestimated. Indeed by far the greater part of the shelf. At the next PILOT meeting, in November, we will 450,000 jobs supported by the UK oil and gas industry challenge industry to take a long-term look at the is provided by the contracting community, and it is vital province and to come forward with new ideas, which that the Government should maintain a close relationship could add renewed emphasis to maintaining investment across that sector. DECC, as the Department responsible and ensuring that we exploit UK resources to the full. for delivering energy policies, has a key role to play in 155WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 156WH promoting a successful upstream oil and gas supply I welcome the fact that the report has come before the industry. The fact that many areas of specialist support House today. The hon. Member for Sherwood (Paddy are provided by other Departments and agencies can Tipping), in introducing the report and the Committee’s create complexity, so it is important that DECC should findings, put the case that the Committee had found for maintain close links with industry to provide additional the industry’s needs. It was the Committee’s first inquiry, guidance when required. That is achieved either directly and it was welcome that it shone the spotlight on such with companies, or via regional or sector trade associations, an important industry. many of which it was instrumental in establishing. I declare my entries in the Register of Members’ A good example is Subsea UK, which was set up five Interests, as a shareholder in Shell and as someone who years ago with initial core funding from DECC when, recently visited a carbon capture and storage pilot along with industry representatives, it recognised the project in France, funded by Total. Of course, my main enormous growth potential in the subsea sector, both in interest is a constituency one, however, as my constituency the continental shelf and the broader international market. is just outside Aberdeen, in the north-east of Scotland, Subsea UK is now well established and is helping to where the heart of the industry is based—although not grow opportunities for its 200-plus member companies the whole of it; it is UK-wide. The jobs that we speak of and to secure a good share of the rapidly expanding affect the whole of the UK. global market, which is set to expand by a further 50 per cent. in the next five years. The current sectoral focus for I pay tribute to the history of the industry, and its DECC is now on offshore decommissioning, where contribution to our security of supply and balance of funding is being provided to help to create a new trade payments. It has benefited our climate change agenda. body to foster UK capability and to assist indigenous This country met its Kyoto commitments because of companies to win a share of that work, which will be the lower carbon outputs from gas generation, and worth billions of pounds over the next few decades. could well meet its future climate change commitments The UK oil and gas supply sector has been a great if, as has been talked about, carbon capture and storage success story, from the early days of the industry when is further developed. The industry has made a phenomenal American companies and personnel dominated and contribution to the country’s tax revenues, and I am carried out much of the work to the present day when sure that the Treasury is aware of that, and does not UK expertise is recognised and sought after in almost need the Minister to remind it. As we have said, there every oil-producing province in the world. The challenge has also been a massive contribution in the form of will be to anchor that expertise in the UK and to ensure jobs. The Minister rightly paid tribute to the sacrifice that we still have a significant oil industry well beyond that has been made, because the industry operates in an the life of the UKCS. Currently the overseas oil and gas extremely hostile and dangerous environment, and lives supply market is worth around £5 billion a year, with have been lost over the years in making sure that this the potential to grow fourfold in the next 25 years. country has benefited from the resource. DECC and its partner UKTI will continue to work The nature of the oil and gas industry will always closely with the sector to help it to achieve that ambition. lock Government and the private sector together, because I alluded earlier to my being a fairly new Minister in the the resource under the ground belongs to the nation post. I am about to arrange my first ministerial visit to and for the nation to benefit from it we need the private Aberdeen to see for myself the work that is now going on. sector to use its skills and initiative to get it out of the The debate comes at an important point in the ground. That inevitably means a far closer link between development of our offshore oil and gas resources. The Government and industry than there is in many other industry faces a key challenge to achieve full economic sectors of the economy. I pay tribute to PILOT for its recovery in a phase of inevitable decline in production work in bringing together the industry, the Department levels and in the size of the remaining prospects. The and the wider Government in dialogue to build a common financial crisis and the volatility of oil prices have purpose for the benefit of society. magnified that challenge. The Committee’s inquiry into this vital industry has therefore been timely, and we To deal now with the recommendations of the welcome its constructive recommendations. I assure Committee, I think that the fiscal regime is still at hon. Members that the Government are fully committed the heart of the effort to unlock that full potential. to playing their part, through continued close working The Minister may not be a Treasury Minister, but the with the industry, to ensure that offshore oil and gas Department’s crucial role is to make sure that the continue to contribute as much as possible to energy Treasury understands how much it needs to engage, if security, investment and employment in the UK, and, the Department is to achieve its full objectives on not least, to the vital transition to a low-carbon future, security of supply and promoting the industry in this which matters so much to us and the whole world. investment climate. There has been a welcome improvement in that engagement, through the field allowance discussions, Sir Nicholas Winterton (in the Chair): I am hoping, but the Treasury still shows too much caution at this subject to time, that we shall be able, with Members’ time in the life cycle of the North sea. Understandably, permission, to call the Minister to reply to the points the phrase “a dead weight” is brought up. To explain to that they raise in the remainder of the debate. the layman, if the Treasury gives a tax incentive that encourages an activity that would have happened without 3.25 pm the incentive, it will lose out. However, the Treasury Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) needs to recognise that this time, given the maturity of (LD): Perhaps as a member of the Procedure Committee, the North sea, the age of its pipelines and platforms, I should write to myself to see how today’s procedure and the costs of investment, if there is a real downturn has unfolded, and whether any lessons can be learned in the North sea and we lose that core infrastructure, it for future Westminster Hall debates. will not come back. 157WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 158WH

[Sir Robert Smith] it was not just left to the banks to sort out the sector’s problem. A lever has been identified by the industry, During past downturns, there have been enough large which the Government could use in that industry, which fields to tempt people back, so the Treasury could err is important both for employment and strategically. on the side of caution in respect of the dead weight The Minister should take back to the Treasury the need argument: it could afford to be cautious about incentives to look again at that matter, to ensure that it is doing because it knew that if it got it wrong it could up the everything it can to overcome the cash-flow crisis, which incentive and bring people back. However, at this time is stifling potential developments. He should take back in the North sea, in the context of the downturn in the the message to the Treasury, “No shocks in the pre-Budget world economy, when the North sea is hitting maturity report this November”. Again, stability is the watchword and there is an expensive operating environment and for getting investment into the industry. much smaller fields with which to compete for global We have the pipes and platforms, but if other investors investment, in the dialogue that the Treasury says it will coming into the North sea cannot access them, we are continue with the industry, it needs to work fairly not getting the benefit. It could be said that we might quickly to ensure that it maximises the incentives. There not start from here and that we do not have the regime may be a bit of loss of future tax revenue because the we need for now. The regime started off all right with Treasury has incentivised something that was going to big players coming in. People thought that the North happen, but a more important outcome will be if, sea had a short life cycle, and did not see the need to globally, we still have a sustainable industry and are still build in some of that infrastructure. The gulf of Mexico maximising recovery from the North sea. has a much more effective regime for handling access to infrastructure, and the Department may need to dangle Mr. Weir: Is it not also true that if we are to have a even more tough talk about how it will come back to future in carbon capture and storage it is vital that the issue to incentivise the owners of that infrastructure, existing infrastructure continues to be invested in, so so that they see that it is in their interest to unlock it that it is available for that future work? If it is not, we efficiently to small players, rather than have the Government may not be able to do carbon capture and storage. come in and do that for them. Sir Robert Smith: That is a valuable point. The pace The wider public need to understand that, at this of progress that we are making towards carbon capture point in the life cycle of the North sea, it is smaller, new and storage means that it is important to keep that companies that are bringing in that investment opportunity, infrastructure there for some time—there have been and the innovation and excitement to unlock the smaller several postponements on the route to CCS. The Treasury finds. However, they will not keep coming here if they must recognise that it has a very targeted regime—it is keep hearing stories about how the person ahead of high-temperature and high-pressure. All the experts say them in the queue got everything else lined up, but when that it is going to incentivise just one field in the whole it came to getting the stuff ashore could not find a of the UK continental shelf. practical way to do it, even though it looked as though Ensuring that the existing platforms—the existing there was an obvious solution there. Unless we can hubs—get incremental development has been mentioned. unlock the infrastructure and ensure fair and effective The enhanced oil recovery talks are welcome, but one of access to it, we will lose out again. the quickest ways to enhance oil recovery for a platform We have already touched on the environment, and is to get new wells drilled from that platform. The the recognition of the industry’s good work. The Treasury needs to consider how it can incentivise that Government’s response to recommendation 17 was that extra development in those platforms. If the big platforms they had written to the statutory nature conservation and the pipelines that connect them are decommissioned bodies to see if there were any concerns. Has the Minister early, the small fields lying around them will no longer had any replies from those bodies? be worth exploiting. We have also touched on carbon capture and storage, The west of Shetland has already been discussed. and the important contribution the North sea can make What the Minister needs to take away today is the fact in that field. It was frustrating seeing the Miller field that the decision points are coming up on that project, project nearly come to fruition, and then see a competition at a time when the gas price for the industry is extremely launched to replace that project, with the competition low. A bold investment decision is required on the gas deadlines and rules shifting. Will the Minister assure us price going up between the point when the decision is emphatically that this competition will meet its deadline, made and when the gas is needed. Every encouragement, and that people who make the effort to put in tenders therefore, is needed for the west of Shetland. That will get a positive and quick response? We will not be encouragement is psychological, because if the province the world leaders in this industry unless we get started were unlocked more fully, that would send a positive on making the industry possible. As the hon. Member message about the vibrancy of the UK continental for Sherwood said, we have so much to play for in this shelf, and support the supply chain that would still be country. We have that storage resource in the North sea, there for the more incremental developments in the the carbon sources in the coal, oil and gas that we can remaining part of the North sea. still produce, and the innovation, skills and technology One of our recommendations that the Minister did in the industry. A regime to effectively unlock that full not touch on was the acceleration of payment of tax potential and deliver that green agenda is needed. allowances to try to deal with the bank cash-flow crisis. The other welcome part of the report is the spotlight The hon. Member for Sherwood made the valid point we put in the last recommendation on the export potential that, although the Government replied that they have a of the industry. I look forward to the Minister’s visit to global strategy for dealing with the banking crisis—that Aberdeen, because he will see a physical sign of what we is a recognisable part of the strategy—in the car sector, have been talking about. He will see a vibrant, go-ahead, 159WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 160WH goal-setting, high-tech industry, which is a major economy. He is perfectly correct. The existence of oil manufacturing base and a major source of new technology and gas off our shores puts us in an enviable position in and export earnings for the United Kingdom, anchored some respects, in that we have a cushion during the in the north-east of Scotland, because of what has transition. However, it also presents us with a big challenge; happened in the North sea. Departments have been so many people are employed in the oil and gas sector restructured, and energy has moved from DTI to DBERR that we need to manage the transition carefully, ensuring and BIS, and now to DECC. DECC obviously focuses that the skills developed in the North sea are retained on the environment and climate change, but will the and transferred into new jobs in that new economy. We Minister reassure me that it still has just as vibrant a have been presented with the real challenge of ensuring role as spokesman for the industry as a major employer that carbon jobs are transferred into green jobs—a and exporter? subject to which I shall return. I welcome the Committee’s report and the spotlight The importance of the oil and gas industry to the that it puts on an often unsung hero of the UK economy economy cannot be overstated. As we note in the report, and a major contributor to our country’s well-being. more than 38 billion barrels of oil equivalent have been The Government and industry are for ever inevitably produced over the last 40 years, and the UK remains locked together in an attempt to make the best of those 13th in world rankings for combined oil and gas resources. Any oil and gas left in the ground does not production—I hope that the Minister is not superstitious. pay tax, does not support jobs and does not contribute The industry body Oil and Gas UK told us that to our security of supply. The North sea is a great “the industry is the most significant contributor to this country’s success story, but a lot remains to be achieved. security of energy supply, today providing 70 per cent. of our primary energy needs.” 3.40 pm That again illustrates the importance of ensuring that the industry functions properly and that we get the Mr. Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): I agree about the maximum from our oil reserves. importance of the oil and gas industry to the economy, It is also abundantly clear from the Committee’s particularly in the north-east of Scotland. The House report that a considerable amount of oil and gas remains will not be surprised at the fairly strong Scottish input within our waters. Witnesses estimate that it is anything to this debate from me and my parliamentary neighbour, between 11 billion and 37 billion barrels of oil equivalent. my hon. Friend the Member for West Aberdeenshire As the hon. Member for Sherwood (Paddy Tipping) and Kincardine (Sir Robert Smith). said, that is a wide variance. I appreciate that the The oil and gas industry has been hugely important Department for Energy and Climate Change will take to the economy of the north-east of Scotland for the the median figure, but by any account a great deal is still last 40 years. As a student who went to Aberdeen there. Whether it is recoverable will depend on many university in the early 1970s, I have seen also the social factors, some of which are detailed in the report. It will implications of the industry over those years. The oil also depend on the prevailing price of oil, and whether industry has provided a great deal of money and some of the smaller finds are economic. employment in the area, but that comes with human The oil and gas industry will clearly remain an important consequences, as has been noted. That was brought aspect of energy policy and energy security in the years home to me when I attended a memorial service at the ahead. We said in the report that Kirk of St. Nicholas in Aberdeen for those who lost “The Government is right to focus on security of energy their lives in the helicopter crash in the early part of the supply as a key challenge for the UK. Much of the UK’s current year. It showed the huge dangers that those employed in electricity generating capacity is set to close over the next decade, offshore oil and gas face in their day-to-day work. and there is a continuing risk of disruption to energy supplies Indeed, during the course of our investigations, members internationally as a result of political and economic turbulence. of the Committee visited a gas rig off the Humber to In this context the importance of domestically produced oil and see for life there for ourselves. gas is obvious and the case for Government doing all it can to help maximise economic production is compelling.” As we have heard, this is the first report from a new Committee. It is significant that we chose to focus on I do not think that anyone would disagree with that. the oil and gas industry, which is important to all for the The industry is most concerned about the tax aspects. reasons already given. We say in the introduction to the I noted the papal bull read out by the Minister, but it report that told us next to nothing. I spoke with several representatives “It is vitally important swiftly to decarbonise the UK economy of the oil industry at a recent CBI reception. What they if the country is to meet its obligations to tackle climate change, most want from the pre-Budget report is no nasty and clearly the use of fossil fuels must diminish. But within the surprises. I hope that the Minister can at least assure us timescale for these changes to take place, the UK will still need to of that. [Interruption.] I take it from the Minister’s use the oil and gas resources remaining in the UK continental smile that the answer is no. To be scrupulously fair, shelf.” however, the CBI representatives said that they had had I come at this possibly from a different angle from other a good engagement with the Chancellor when he visited Members here today in that I would like to see the word Aberdeen recently to speak to the industry. “Scotland” rather than “UK” in there. None the less, The Minister has made it clear that he cannot say too the sentiment is the same. We are moving towards much about taxation. Frustrating though that is, we all decarbonising our economy, but it will take time. We understand why. However, he spoke of the difficulties in have huge resources, but they must be used to the best respect of development west of Shetland. New thinking advantage. may be necessary if development is to go ahead on a The Secretary of State appeared before the Committee major scale. It became clear during the course of our yesterday, and he too made the point that we are in a investigations that there are serious concerns, and not state of transition as we work towards a low-carbon only about taxation. We say in the report that the 161WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 162WH

[Mr. Mike Weir] Sir Robert Smith: What is causing consternation is that people are still being quoted the same price even in current field allowance is inadequate, especially when the downturn. It may be that the rig market needs trying to encourage development in the difficult terrain looking at to see how it operates and whether it feeds west of Shetland. I urge the Minister to consider with through the benefits of the downturn, by which I mean his departmental colleagues and the Treasury what more the cost structure. can be done to ensure proper fiscal incentives, so that the industry can continue to develop west of Shetland. Mr. Weir: That is a very good point. From the evidence, The Committee also pointed out the twin difficulty it seems that much of the difficulty stemmed from that many in the industry are finding in arranging hurricane Katrina and other hurricanes in the Gulf of finance. The hon. Member for Sherwood said that few Mexico. Huge damage was done to the infrastructure, banks were operating in that area. However, I recall which will take a long time to rebuild. None the less, it is being told that only one of the major banks—Lloyds fair to say that there is a serious difficulty with cost. HBOS, or Lloyds banking group as it now is—operated The Minister and others have already spoken about in the North sea, but that it was not keen on making infrastructure, but we questioned many witnesses about new investments. The result is that companies already the infrastructure difficulties with regard to exploitation, operating in the North sea can obtain finance, but that particularly for smaller companies. There is a great deal new entrants to the market are finding it extremely of infrastructure in the North sea, most of which is difficult. Indeed, the Oil and Gas Independents Association owned by the major oil companies. If we are to have any has said that the bank was not lending to new operators. chance of maximising extraction from the more marginal We also noted that many of the major companies were fields within the area, we need to have a system that reviewing budgets in light of the recession and that they allows smaller operators access to that infrastructure. were taking a most conservative approach. That was an issue on which there was some agreement The then Minister of State said in evidence that the between the independents and the large suppliers. The major oil companies were unlikely to be affected. That Oil and Gas Independents Association told us that may be true, but as has been pointed out, many of the “increasingly, we are finding smaller accumulations in the North companies operating west of Shetland and in the more Sea, and they cannot support their own dedicated infrastructure, marginal parts of the existing North sea fields are so they have to be able to tie them back to existing infrastructure, smaller companies, and they are feeling the chill winds which has to be there. Ultimately, it drives exploration. If you are of the credit crisis and finding it difficult to obtain the expecting to find relatively modest pools, you have to know there is an efficient way of getting it to the shore.” necessary finance. Indeed, at least one small company went bankrupt as we were starting our report. I recall As the report states: receiving a massive number of e-mails on the reasons “The Association has serious concerns about the operation of for that, but it was linked to the difficulty of getting the industry’s Code of Practice relating to infrastructure access, credit to allow the company to continue working in the which they believe is hampering their ability to operate.” North sea. It is fair to say that there is a difference of opinion on Finance is very important, and I again urge the that point between the independents and the large operators. Minister to push his colleagues to take up the matter Even the majors conceded in evidence to us that that with the banks. The matter was addressed, to some part of the code had not been working particularly well. extent, in the Government’s response. It states: As I pointed out in an intervention, that issue comes “The Government has introduced a range of general measures into sharp relief when considering the future exploitation to support the financial sector and encourage lending to businesses, of the resources west of Shetland. We are told that there including the recapitalisation of the banks and the introduction is considerable potential there, but many were very of the Asset Protection Scheme. These measures are supporting cautious about the viability of much of that. Clearly, access to finance for all sectors of the economy, including the oil the hostile and difficult environment was an important and gas sector. To date, the difficulties reported by oil and gas factor, but one of the principal factors was the high cost companies do not seem to differ significantly from those encountered of production and the lack of infrastructure and the by other sectors, but the situation is kept under review and the Government will consider the case for more specific measures in cost of providing it. the light of emerging information.” We took a great deal of evidence on the issue of To be blunt, that strikes me as slightly complacent. infrastructure. Again, there were clear differences between There is ample evidence from those we spoke to in our the smaller players and the major companies. Oil and report that there is a serious difficulty here. The BPs Gas UK made the fair point that it was difficult to see and Shells of this world probably do not have a finance how a common carrier system could be funded because problem to the same extent, but the small companies it would be a disincentive to the first in the field if that do, and it is the small companies that hold the key to company had to meet the upfront costs with no guarantee development not only west of Shetland but in the more of payback, and it was unlikely that the Government marginal parts of the existing mature basin of the would want to fund the system. Inevitably, it suggested North sea. Many of the companies find that, along with that the Government might have to look at the fiscal difficulties in finance, they face steadily rising costs. incentives. Much of the reason for that is outwith Government In the Gulf of Mexico, there is a common carrier control; it is about the availability of particular rigs and arrangement, which shows that such arrangements can the difficulties after hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico work in a basin such as that, so the Government must with rigs being sent there and such like. We were told look more closely at the idea. Although I appreciate that someone was paying £400,000 a day for a drilling that there are enormous difficulties with this issue, it is a rig, which, by any calculation, is a fantastic sum of nettle that we need to grasp. We are all agreed that money to operate in the North sea. exploitation of the resources west of Shetland is important 163WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 164WH for our energy security, and it should not be put at risk without a finishing line. Far from being world leaders in by a lack of agreement on the infrastructure necessary carbon capture and storage, we could end up lagging to exploit it. Again, I urge the Minister to consider that behind everyone else. issue and engage with both the major and smaller Along with the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire companies to establish a system that will ensure that we and Kincardine, I visited the Total plant in the south of can exploit those important resources. France. I suppose that I should declare that in the I listened carefully to what the Minister said about Register of Members’ Interests and I should also declare infrastructure, but I am afraid that I struggled to understand an interest as vice-president of the all-party oil and gas the difference between what is now being done and what group within the House. That visit demonstrated to us has been done in the recent past. It seems to me that that others are now pushing forward and developing there has been discussion between everybody, but no carbon capture and storage. There are various different real movement forward. types of CCS. The ones concerning the North sea are Again, as I mentioned in an intervention, if we are particularly interesting for Scotland and the UK, but considering carbon capture and storage, it is vital that there are others coming up, and we have to ensure that we sort out the problem of infrastructure. Much of the we are not left behind with that important technology. infrastructure in the North sea is now fairly old. It It is not just about carbon capture and storage. Other needs to be maintained, which is expensive. There is a renewables are now being placed offshore, in particular real danger that, unless there is agreement about how wind farms. The Crown Estate recently announced the the infrastructure will be used in the future and how it grant of exclusive rights for the development of wind will be used for carbon capture and storage, it will farms around the coast, including two off the coast of simply no longer be maintained or it will be my own constituency, at Inchcape and Bell Rock. That decommissioned. That will undermine our efforts to offers a huge potential for green jobs and for those skills capture carbon and store it for our own climate change that have been developed in the North sea oil and gas reasons and to create many new jobs in north-east industries. Many wind farms will be built in areas where Scotland. the oil and gas industry has operated for the last 40 years, As I said earlier, I represent a constituency in the and many of those skills will be needed. north-east of Scotland, which, in the past, has benefited In previous years, the port of Montrose in my from the presence of North sea oil—not perhaps to the constituency had a considerable oil and gas business, extent of my parliamentary neighbour, the hon. Member although that has wound down to some extent. It is for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine. None the less, looking to take advantage of the potential for the it has had a significant influence. Many of my constituents construction and subsequent maintenance of the wind have worked, and continue to work, in the oil industry. farms. That is good for the future. There is a future for Their employment illustrates how the industry has evolved oil and gas, both immediately and through diversification and changed over the years. Many of them had originally in the long term. However, Government action is needed worked in the North sea, but now they could just as to ensure that the fiscal regime is correct, that continuing easily work in any area of the world. Indeed, I have development is encouraged and, crucially, that the recently met constituents who work on Ivory Coast, infrastructure remains for the new industries and that a Nigeria, Kazakhstan, Norway and many other countries. new infrastructure is developed. We must ensure that we The skills developed in the North sea have allowed an get the maximum possible from west of Shetland. industry to develop that can export skills to other areas of the world, and that bodes well for employment in 4.1 pm north-east Scotland, as oil and gas reserves inevitably wind down. We must look to the export of skills in the Simon Hughes (North Southwark and Bermondsey) industry in the future. (LD): Like other colleagues, I welcome this significant Another point we touched on was the future, as we report. It is the first report from the Committee on move away from oil and gas. We must consider Energy and Climate Change, and I thank the hon. diversification because, however much we may regret it, Member for Sherwood (Paddy Tipping) and his colleagues oil and gas are, inevitably, finite resources, and they will for the work that they have done. It is a solid piece of go down over the years. work. We have not yet heard from the hon. Member for Wealden (Charles Hendry), who speaks for the Conservative We have touched on carbon capture and storage, party, but as he also served on the Select Committee, I which is obviously very important. I do not want to go doubt whether he will have changed his views. over the whole story of the Peterhead project yet again, but that was a missed opportunity for the Government. There is a consensus: we sing from the same song The project, which was ready to go, linked our power sheet about what the priorities for the offshore oil and station with an offshore installation. It was a great gas industry are in the UK. I hope that those who take tragedy that, due to dithering on the part of the an interest or work within the industry are aware of the Government, it did not go ahead. I understand that it is attention that the House gives to these matters. We now going ahead in Abu Dhabi. The project could have salute the contribution that those people have made to given us a world lead in this technology. However, there the UK economy, not only now but over the past are other projects, particularly Scottish Power’s proposal decades. We salute their vision and innovation, and the to link into the Longannet power station in Fife, which bravery that they have shown—and continue to show—in could then link into the North sea. doing work that is often very difficult. As others have stated, the continuing delays on the As a London MP, I can say not only that the industry carbon capture and storage competition are causing a is significant in places such as Aberdeenshire or Angus, great deal of concern. The hon. Member for Sherwood but that there are probably people in all our constituencies put it very well when he said that it was a contest who work within it in one way or another. Last year, I 165WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 166WH

[Simon Hughes] precondition, not only for economic success but for peace in the world. If there are two issues that could was on a Thameslink platform at Blackfriars station lead to the risk of conflict now and in the future, they very early one morning. I was going on a sad mission to are disputes over energy and water supplies. the funeral of our late lamented colleague, Russell I have just returned from a second visit to Ukraine Johnston, in Inverness cathedral. The Thameslink train and a conference about freedom and democracy. The was delayed, which made the chance of catching the hon. Member for Sherwood hinted at this issue, and it plane to get to Inverness slightly more precarious—as it will not surprise anyone to hear that one of the issues happened, it just arrived in time to make the connection. uppermost in the minds of everyone in Ukraine—where On the platform, people were talking to each other, they are starting a presidential election campaign—is even though it was early in the morning. I was talking to the future of energy security. Ukraine had a precarious and sharing my concern with someone who commuted time both earlier this year and three years ago when once a week from the east end of London to Aberdeenshire Russia effectively turned off the tap. to work in the industry. He came from London but was As the Select Committee report says, in 2007, thanks of Asian extraction, and he had made that journey for to the UK oil and gas industries, we were self-sufficient years. Even though he and his family were based in in oil and we produced three quarters of our gas. London, he had just as much of a commitment to the However, with declining supplies, both Britain and, industry as people in the north-east of Scotland. This is more importantly, Europe have and will need to look a UK enterprise and we should recognise that. outside the continent. We believe that it is central to the I pay tribute to my hon. Friends who, as one would security of UK and European energy supplies that we expect, have taken a huge interest in and greatly supported continue to exploit what nature has given us with the the industry over the years. My hon. Friend the Member UK oil and gas industries, as well as building a secure for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Sir Robert European energy policy. I will not be diverted far down Smith) is an eminent member of the Energy and Climate that road, but I make a plea to the Minister and his Change Committee, and he has often engaged with the colleagues that, during the remaining period of this industry. My right hon. Friend the Member for Gordon Government and Administration, at both ministerial (Malcolm Bruce) has previously spoken for the Liberal and prime ministerial council meetings, we must work Democrat party on such matters and has served on towards an energy policy that is part of an European Select Committees in many guises and incarnations. He energy policy. continues to sustain his interest. I am always nervous about the fact that the Conservative I acknowledge the expertise and interest of the hon. party has never seemed as willing to see a UK energy Member for Angus (Mr. Weir). Owing not only to his policy that is part of a wider European energy policy. If place of birth and university education, but to his we are to ensure that we can not only export materials constituency, he rightly takes a deep interest in the oil such as oil or gas, but import them, we must have a and gas industry that is valued and appreciated. Whatever European super-grid. As well as the east-west supply, the differences between parties in Scotland, from what I we need secure supply pipelines that run from north to have heard and read today, I do not think that there is south throughout Europe, not only for fossil fuels but a significant difference in the general thrust of what for renewable energy sources. That is the great debate to we say. do with Gazprom and the pipelines that come from the I have two other points, one of which is relevant to former Soviet states. Unless we have that context for our the debate and has already been mentioned. The issue is energy security, we are all in trouble. to do with Shetland. Both my hon. Friend the Member Russia, which is now the world’s largest producer of for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Carmichael), and his natural gas and the second largest oil producer after predecessor, now Lord Wallace of Tankerness, have Saudi Arabia, is a hugely dominant supplier. Its state-owned ensured that the rest of us understand these issues. In companies are dominant suppliers, and that is a dangerous the past, I have been to both Orkney and Shetland in and precarious position for the rest of the world. That is somewhat inclement conditions, and I have realised why what we do at home is so important. how precarious life is onshore, let alone offshore. It is The other part of the backdrop to the issue is topical. important that we remember that it is not all about Just the other day, on 14 October, the eminent report by comfortable, modern technology and flying people out Lord Turner of the Committee on Climate Change was in a helicopter and bringing them back again. The published. The report included predictions of what Liberal Democrats also have the great guru, my hon. might happen to oil and gas prices over the years. My Friend the Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable), who is hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham has always our shadow Chancellor. He was the chief economist for argued that we need a stable pricing regime to avoid Shell and has ensured that we all understand these spikes and the peaks and troughs of uncertainty. The issues. I shall return to him in a moment. hon. Member for Angus said that we do not want any I will not repeat the points that have been raised, but I unexpected surprises in the Chancellor’s autumn statement. want to put this debate in context. The Liberal Democrats The world cannot easily cope with unexpected or steep take an interest in these issues. There was a debate in the variations in the price of oil and gas. If we are to have House a fortnight ago, precipitated by the hon. Member some sense of energy security, we must ensure that the for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Doran). It was mostly about supply is secure, so that prices can be secure. the health and safety issues in the industry. We have It was encouraging that the projections by the Committee taken an interest in the UK industry, but as the hon. on Climate Change show a gradual increase in annual Member for Sherwood rightly reminded us, the issue gas prices over the next decade, as that provides hope needs to be looked at in the context of Europe and the for security. Projected annual oil prices also show a world. The security of energy supplies is an absolute gradual and not too steep increase. From our constituents’ 167WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 168WH points of view, any significant increase in gas and oil Companies that come to see me say, “We have no prices, irrespective of what use the suppliers make of technical problem; it’s about taking it from the pilot them and whether they add a fair or an unfair amount, scheme to an operating model.” will have a huge impact on domestic budgets, particularly This is also about jobs—new jobs in new skills. As the for poor people in this country. It is imperative that we hon. Member for Angus said, the opportunity to continue have the best security of supply. to employ people in new things in the North sea, along My hon. Friend the hon. Member for West our east coast and around the coast of Scotland, is as Aberdeenshire and Kincardine said that we very much important as it is in old activities. That includes carbon sign up to the Committee’s key recommendations that capture and storage, but it also includes renewables: we must decarbonise the UK economy quickly, while offshore wind, tide and the like. Those are what the keeping our oil and gas supplies and incentivising maximum Prime Minister might call green jobs—the jobs of the opportunities from them, and that we need sustained future. The Government get into a muddle about that. investment. Like the hon. Member for Angus, I am The Prime Minister says, “We’re going to have all these slightly troubled that the Minister, partly as we might green jobs,” and then another Minister says, “There’s no have expected, gave us an inscrutable answer about definition of a green job,” so there is a problem, but the what the Government might do. The Committee was general argument is that they are job opportunities. clear about it. Recommendation 5 says: This is not special pleading; it is a point made by “We welcome the Government’s recognition of the difficulties other colleagues. I am trying to reinforce the two last faced by oil and gas companies in accessing affordable lending points that come up in the report. The point about and the fact that DECC, through BERR and HM Treasury, is access to infrastructure by small companies is clearly engaging with banks to ensure that the UK continental shelf ‘is at understood. The Government said in their reply, “There’s the forefront of the minds of the banks’. However, given the problems oil and gas companies are having in achieving affordable a voluntary code, and we’re keeping an eye on it,” but borrowing, it does not seem that such engagement is having any colleagues from the region, particularly from Scotland, conspicuous success. DECC Ministers should set out, with their are saying that it does not appear to be working well. Treasury and BERR counterparts, what steps the Government is Smaller companies are saying that they do not find it taking specifically to help oil and gas companies access affordable easy to negotiate the deal. The law is in place; it should credit from banks and keep under review the availability of such work. If it is not working, it needs to be revised, but if it credit.” is not working because it needs to be oiled as a bit of The Government’s response, dated 14 October, basically machinery, the Government need to produce pressure says, “We’re doing things across the board,” but says to get the oil working down the pipeline. nothing about specific assistance. That ties into the two On the Shetland point, the Government say in their specific points that have been made, which I want to response to recommendation 20: reinforce as strongly as I can. “The frontier area for the UKCS”— First, it seems to me that, if we have a lot of well- established, well-used and fairly old plant that needs the United Kingdom continental shelf— replacing to gain new generation investment, that would “is West of Shetland—one of the most challenging operating need some helpful banking finance up front. It might environments in the world.” not be enough just to have general Government support Anybody who has seen it, even from the shore or flying for the banking industry. I ask the Minister specifically, overhead, rather than by living and working in the west if he can respond when he winds up, to confirm that he of Shetland, must understand that point. That is a will take away what I think he has heard from every fantastic opportunity, and the Minister has accepted it. speaker so far: because oil and gas is one of the UK’s My hon. Friend the hon. Member for Orkney and most important industries, it is crucial that that industry Shetland, Tavish Scott and others are keen to press on should have the opportunity to obtain the credit and the Government that the field allowance regime has not finance that it needs to be able to put the necessary yet delivered. I understand when the Government say, infrastructure in place. “We can’t have a regime that produces additional money Secondly, there is a clear benefit to that, for the where it doesn’t need to be spent”—that is not good reasons that we have all discussed. At the moment, public expenditure—but the system must be flexible there are 350,000 to 400,000 jobs in the industry. enough to ensure incentives where there is no activity Unemployment is rising, and we need people with currently. I am told that the application of the field engineering and technical skills in particular. It is vital allowance system announced in the Budget this year, that we use opportunities to give people training and though welcome, does not work for some of the technologies work, particularly work, not just in the conventional needed for the west of Shetland. If we are to explore activities of oil and gas exploration and bringing it there, that is important. home but, as colleagues have said, in developing My last point is one that I made in an intervention. opportunities in carbon capture and storage. Some activity is bound to be very near the edge of our Again, will the Minister confirm in winding up that territorial waters. It makes absolute sense to collaborate he has heard that message? We have a tough line in our with the Faroese authorities, as we have done in other party that the next range of coal power stations should things with Norway. Colleagues in Shetland would wish all be carbon capture and storage from the beginning. the result of the exploration to come directly to Shetland, That is increasingly the advice of environmental and rather than having to go all the way to the Faroes and climate change experts. If that is the case, we must be come all the way back. I hope that the Minister will ahead of the game, not behind it. Given that we have a make it clear that he understands that. If he has the great country with a great engineering and scientific time—I know that it would mean an extra flight after tradition, there is no reason why we should not be. The his visit to Aberdeen—is he willing to visit Shetland and Americans in California have done a lot of work. talk to colleagues there? That would be much appreciated. 169WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 170WH

[Simon Hughes] That can pinpoint to an area much smaller than the size of this room where should be drilled to give the best There is absolute commendation of the value of the opportunity of success. This is not an old industry but oil and gas industry in this country and its contribution. an incredibly modern one. It is at the cutting edge of We want to express our collective gratitude to both research and development. It is to the huge credit of those who work in the industry and those who come Britain that British companies are the global leaders here to brief us, particularly Oil and Gas UK, which is that are driving the industry forward. very good about keeping us well-informed, answering The industry has been a great source of wealth for the any queries and ensuring that we understand the issues. country and an important element in our energy security, I hope that in both the autumn statement and the but we must adapt to a new world. Gas output is Budget next year—the last Budget before the general declining, bringing new challenges. We have discussed election—the Government will do all that they can to gas storage, which is one of the big challenges that the be even more helpful, so that our oil and gas industries, Government have to face. This country is critically which are two jewels in the crown of UK plc, have a short of gas storage. We have capacity for only a couple successful future. It is not at all incompatible with of weeks, compared with about 100 days in Germany saving the planet and averting the climate crisis to and 120 days in France. Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, the ensure that we intelligently and responsibly exploit the Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate natural resources that we have been given, and they are Change, said recently that if all the projects that were two of the most important. planned to be built by 2012 were constructed on time, our gas storage would be increased by just five hours. 4.20 pm That brings home how much more must be done. Charles Hendry (Wealden) (Con): May I begin by We will inevitably become increasingly dependent on referring on the record to the visits and conferences that imported gas. The involvement of Russia has been are in the Register of Members’ Interests? I also went to mentioned. We currently import about 2 or 3 per cent. Moscow this week to speak at the international energy of our gas from Russia. That will almost certainly rise. week conference that was organised by the Moscow We need to get a better understanding of the importance chamber of commerce. that gas will have in the mix in coming years. In his This has been a useful and constructive debate. The excellent introduction, the hon. Member for Sherwood Select Committee’s work in creating the report has been (Paddy Tipping) said that 60 per cent. of our gas could valuable and useful. I speak not only as the Conservative be imported by 2020. In “The UK Low Carbon Transition Front-Bench spokesman on this issue, but as a member Plan”, the Government say that the figure will be only of the Select Committee. It is a young Committee, but it 40 per cent., whereas others say that it could be as high has hit the ground running. It has already done valuable as 80 per cent. That is a wide range. The answer has work. It is extremely well supported by the Clerks and important implications for the amount of gas storage officers, who have given some outstanding briefings. It that the country will need. We have facilities and areas has shown it is prepared to deal with the difficult issues. where gas can be stored, but we must drive forward the Many easier issues than this could have been adopted investment. for the first report, but this is one of the most important There must be a normalisation of the relationship issues for energy policy in Britain, and in Scotland in between Russia and Ukraine. The transit and domestic particular. It is to its credit that the Committee has put supply issues must be separated. Eventually, a proper forward a report that is unanimous and meaningful. market price must be paid in Ukraine for the gas it Sometimes it is difficult to achieve those two together. receives. We agree with the hon. Member for North The North sea and the oil and gas sector are often the Southwark and Bermondsey that there must be new forgotten element in energy policy. For all involved in pipelines to market. Nord Stream, South Stream and this report and all those in Parliament, the oil and gas Nabucco can all contribute to ensuring that a smaller sector has been there for the whole of our political lives. proportion of Europe’s gas comes through Ukraine. It is sometimes taken for granted that, because it has worked well and has been successful, it will inevitably From what I heard in Moscow this week, the go on doing so. We must recognise the massive contribution co-operation being sought by the Russian Government the sector has made. In total, it has paid £271 billion in is encouraging. Prime Minister Putin himself has recently taxes. This year, it will pay £7 billion in taxes, which will worked with the heads of energy companies actively to account for a quarter of all the corporation tax collected seek their involvement in developing the potential for in the UK. It provides between 65 and 70 per cent. of liquefied natural gas facilities on the Yamal peninsula. the country’s primary energy demand. We all join the He has set out clearly the terms of investment, the local Minister and the hon. Member for North Southwark expectations and the benefit to the Russian economy and Bermondsey (Simon Hughes) in paying tribute to from technology and jobs. That element must not be the industry for its achievements, for driving forward taken for granted, but should be taken into consideration investment and for the exceptional courage of all who in this debate. work in the sector. One of the most extraordinary visits I have ever made Simon Hughes: Russia has always sought bilateral was with the British-American parliamentary group to arrangements with individual European countries such BP at Houston in Texas. We saw the way in which new as Italy and France. Would the hon. Gentleman support technology is being applied to an established industry. a much more effective European Union energy strategy It is identifying potential new deposits under 10,000 feet that challenged the dominant state positions of some of water and 20,000 feet of rocks using sonar equipment EU countries, which have gone unchallenged in the that is dragged across the top of the gulf of Mexico. history of the EU? 171WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 172WH

Charles Hendry: It is important that energy policy better regime somewhere else in the world, that is where remains as a retained power that is set at a nation state they will invest. So we are truly in a competitive market level. In January, we saw the extent of our interdependence in trying to secure that crucial investment in the United in European energy policy.In response to a crisis thousands Kingdom. of miles away, we saw gas being pumped out of Britain We have had a discussion about the carbon capture at an alarmingly high rate when we were approaching and storage element. Again, the hon. Member for Sherwood our coldest winter for 18 years and should have been talked gently to the Minister about there being no building up our gas storage. There is inevitable finishing line. I would put it slightly more robustly: interdependence, but that does not stop me believing the Government scheme is in chaos. We have seen the that the fundamental principles of energy policy should scheme changing over time and, as we have heard, the be decided at nation state level. We should decide the best opportunity, in Peterhead, closed down as a result best way to meet our low carbon obligations and to of the delays. Initially, the scheme was to be only for ensure our energy security. post-combustion technology, even though for many of We have heard about the need for maintaining output us the most exciting opportunities were in pre-combustion at high levels. The report says that there is scope for and oxy-fuel combustion technologies. However, they between 11 billion and 37 billion barrels of oil in the were ruled out at the outset. future. Oil and Gas UK give the figure of 25 billion In response to a lot of pressure from all parties, the barrels, which is roughly in the middle of that range. Government decided to extend their scheme. So we now For that potential to be realised, there must be a greater have one competition for a single post-combustion project, strategy than we have at the moment. I join others in and potentially three other projects. While the delay has paying tribute to the work of PILOT. However, that has been going on and there is the lack of a finishing line, been more about setting targets than delivering a road we are being overtaken by other countries—for example, map. To contrast this sector with the nuclear sector, the the United States, Canada, Abu Dhabi, Germany, Norway Office for Nuclear Development has a month-by-month or Australia. Around the world, companies and countries plan of who should do what so that new nuclear plants are moving ahead of Britain in an area where we could can open within a decade. Everybody knows whose not have had a better opportunity to lead. responsibility it is to keep that programme on track. We do not have the same road map in oil and gas. It is We have hundreds of years of coal supply, we have important that people know whose job it is to do what if the technology and the skills base from the North sea we are to realise the potential of the sector. sector, and we have the depleted oil and gas field. There The hon. Member for Sherwood was generous in his could be no country with a better opportunity to lead opening remarks—he is always very generous—in saying the debate, so it is disappointing that we have slipped in that the Government had responded favourably to the terms of the leadership that Britain could have shown report. I felt that the Government response was a bit in that area. I know that the Minister is relatively new, complacent and bland. It was full of warm words that but I hope that his enthusiasm—I always think of him suggest that everything that needs to be done is being as a sort of Duracell bunny Minister with boundless done. It did not contain enough on recognising the enthusiasm and energy—means that he can kick-start extent of the challenges and the dropping off of investment and drive the whole approach forward. If Britain does activity, which is crucial for future development. not take advantage of the situation now, in 20 years’ time, we could be saying, “How did we lose out and why We have had a discussion about what more could be did we get it wrong?”—as in relation to the wind and done to ensure that small and medium-sized companies other sectors. The leadership on this has to come from that are still pretty big in the sector get access to the the Government. finance that they need, because a real struggle is going on with that. It would be interesting to hear more from The report also refers to the global opportunities that the Minister on that. are in the UK. The companies that are leading in the We understand that the Minister is having discussions North sea are those that have fantastic opportunities with the Treasury, but I must emphasis that the whole globally. However, the real reason why they have such fiscal regime could not be more important. My hon. unique opportunities is the maturity of our own industry. Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr. Osborne), the shadow Such companies have had to do more on energy efficiency, Chancellor, has asked Tim Eggar—a distinguished former more on eliminating flaring and more to ensure that energy Minister—to look at the fiscal regime and report they get the final remaining elements possible from the back to him early in the new year. We can then set out in declining assets. Therefore, such companies can offer great detail exactly how we would try to ensure that this particular skills to countries that are behind the curve in sector prospers. that area. Through UK Trade and Investment and our As the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and embassies, I hope that we will advocate the opportunities Kincardine (Sir Robert Smith) said, if one does not get for those British companies to try to deal with that. the fiscal balance right, there will be no exploration Again, I go back to the issues in Russia. Prime and, without exploration, the relevant taxes will not Minister Putin has said that he wants international come in. We all have a vested interest in ensuring that involvement and we must be foremost among the countries exploration work is continued as much as possible. It is looking to take advantage of those international important to have enhanced oil recovery in this area, opportunities. and that work is done to invest in the declining fields. Again, those policies will be of fundamental importance Simon Hughes: I endorse that by saying that there are to such areas. new opportunities in parts of the world that are traditionally The companies involved in the sector do not just look supportive of us, with which we have good links—for at the opportunities in the United Kingdom; they look example, Ghana is looking at oil exploration offshore globally. If, at the end of the day, they think there is a and potentially even Sierra Leone could do with some 173WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 174WH

[Simon Hughes] 4.38 pm new investment coming in. There are plenty of places Mr. Kidney: With the leave of the House, I should like where good British people are already out there doing briefly to respond to the points made by hon. Members, the work, bidding and getting some of the contracts. several of whom mentioned the dispute between Russia The opportunities do not stop at trying to do deals with and Ukraine. Although we rely on Russia for 2 per cent. places such as Russia; we have a good traditional base of our gas annually and were relying on it for none at of support in continents in other parts of the world. the time of the dispute, we were hugely affected by the diversion of our gas to other European countries who had been caught up in the dispute themselves. That tells me that there is a need to press on with the liberalisation Charles Hendry: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely of markets in the European Union. Certainly, we should right. There is astonishment in some of these countries have the kind of co-operation that the hon. Member for that, when they realise the potential and the size of the North Southwark and Bermondsey (Simon Hughes) market available there, heavier weight representation is talked about, if not the full-blown EU energy policy not made by the British Government. Such countries that he called for today. find that companies from other countries arrive with their energy Ministers, their Prime Ministers and a Charles Hendry: I am sorry to intervene so early in whole raft of ministerial support, while our representations the Minister’s speech having just had the opportunity to are left to our very able diplomats on the ground, speak, but at the time of that dispute, we were pumping without that high level of ministerial support and out 25 million cubic metres of gas a day through one of representation. Again, that is an area where we need to the interconnectors. Through the interconnector next step up to the plate more. If we take things for granted, door, we were pumping in 26 million cubic metres of some of those countries will simply look to other gas a day.The market was working perfectly—the molecules opportunities and businesses to help develop those assets were following the money—but we were down to two or and potentials, because they do not believe it matters three days of gas storage. Our national security was enough to us. therefore jeopardised because of how the system worked. We have heard from the Minister about some of his Other countries say that, once gas storage is below a discussions with the Treasury, which are always challenging certain level, there should be restrictions on exports. Is and interesting. In those discussions, I hope he will also the Minister exploring that issue and does he think it consider some of the other aspects of Britain’s national could be a way of ensuring our energy security? interests in this sector. The oil that we develop in Britain is particularly good for refining for petrol, but the Mr. Kidney: I disagree with one part of the hon. declining market for petrol and the growing market for Gentleman’s analysis: the market was not working perfectly, diesel means that we end up having to export a huge because artificial arrangements in some European Union amount of petrol, particularly to the United States. countries attracted gas that was destined for this country However, we import phenomenal amounts of diesel, at a fair price before it was diverted. That brings me to because the oil that is appropriate for that is found in the point that he made in his speech about gas storage. other parts of the world. In the Minister’s discussions Historically, and even today, storage has not been a with the Treasury, I hope that he will also look at that major issue for this country, because the giant supply of tax regime, because the tax regime on diesel vis-à-vis the gas on our doorstep has meant that we could simply tax regime on petrol will have an impact on the extent to turn the tap if we needed more. As the gas supply from which we can use our own resources. our home sources declines, we will need to give more attention to storage and alternative resources. The In conclusion, the most important thing that we can Aldbrough storage facility in east Yorkshire has recently say—this has come through clearly in the debate and in opened, and there are 19 other projects currently in the report—is that this is a crucial industry that cannot play. This month, I attended an official dinner with the be taken for granted. We have seen warning signs that Qatari Energy Minister to celebrate the start of the flow investment is declining sharply, which means that in a of liquefied natural gas into this country through south few years’ time, production will decline sharply, too. We Wales. On that night, he talked about how his country have a vested interest in trying to make the best use of could supply us with liquefied natural gas for the next the natural resources that we have. We understand fully 100 years. We are taking serious steps to address this the challenges of climate change and of moving towards issue, but the liberalisation of the market in the European a low-carbon society. However, I agree with the hon. Union is still a key policy aim for this country. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey that a distinction does not need to be drawn between those two approaches. We have a crucial need for energy Sir Robert Smith: On our indigenous gas supply, it is security, and we have seen reports, even from the important for the Minister to recognise that, as the Government’s own expert scientists, that say we could North sea changes, a lot of the gas that we get now have power cuts in just a few years’ time because so comes not from pure gas fields but from gas associated much plant is coming offline. When we have on—or with oil. We no longer have the ability simply to turn the under—our own doorstep such an extraordinary resource, tap off and on, even from much of our own supply, it would be madness to allow it to dwindle unnecessarily because it comes at the speed at which oil production fast. Clearly, that resource is finite in its nature, but it will allow it to come. has a tremendous potential and it is vital to this country. The Government must respond by ensuring that that Mr. Kidney: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, and potential can be delivered. I accept that point. 175WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 176WH

Most Members have mentioned carbon capture and team that is developing the first commercial scheme in storage. I remind hon. Members that, in the Energy China, and I have to say that China is no further Act 2008, we set out the legal framework for carbon forward with its scheme than we are here. capture and storage in this country, including on long-term Many Members commented on taxation and finance, liability, which was a very important issue for those who but at least they helpfully acknowledged that I am not a were considering developing policies and investing in Treasury Minister and therefore will not be let off my future projects. We then established our policy on no lead to talk about those matters. At this stage, I simply consents for old coal in this country. In future, there want to thank the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire must be carbon capture demonstration from the outset and Kincardine (Sir Robert Smith) for his comment and an ability to retrofit 100 per cent. once the technology about the positive engagement that the field allowance is proven. It is worth reminding ourselves that there is as has brought with the sector. Like others, he wants it to yet no end-to-end commercial carbon capture and storage move further forward quickly, but the engagement is project in operation in the world. We also secured there, and I certainly want to encourage that on both agreement in the European Union for access to 300 million the Government side and within the sector. He made a emissions trading scheme credits from 2013 to support good point about why we want to tax that important the development of the demonstration project across resource—so that we get our fair share of the value of a the EU. We have completed our consultation on the UK national resource. That was a good point for him to framework for clean coal. make and for me to reinforce.

Paddy Tipping rose— Simon Hughes: Before the Minister leaves that subject, let me ask him about his Department’s response to the Select Committee report. The response points out that Mr. Kidney: I have not yet finished my list, but I shall the new survey of companies’ investment intentions, give way. which is what this is all about, is due this autumn. Will he tell us whether he has received it yet, or if he knows Paddy Tipping: What the Minister says is exactly when it is coming? Will he ensure that it is shared right, but he must take the industry and the sector with robustly with Treasury Ministers as soon as it appears? him, whether that is BP, UK Coal or E.ON. Let me say to him very gently that there is real despair in the Mr. Kidney: It is coming, but it has not arrived. I take industry about the lack of progress. Unless the industry the hon. Gentleman’s point about sharing it robustly. is confident that the Government are fully committed Let me say a little about the availability of finance for and will stick to the timetables that they have laid down, projects to go ahead. As I mentioned in my speech, he will find that willing players will walk away to areas there are still good projects and they are still attracting where their investment can pay higher dividends. finance. For example, there was a recent announcement about a smaller company—Hurricane Exploration—and Mr. Kidney: I am in the middle of a list of the things a new development by that company. If my comments that we are doing to ensure that we remain at the on Government support have not been explicit enough, forefront of developments in carbon capture and storage. let me mention the enterprise finance guarantee scheme I stand by those things and continue the list, which for smaller companies and the working capital scheme includes the current consultation on the licensing structure for larger companies. Those are the kinds of Government for the future storage of carbon dioxide. funds that are available for companies seeking investment. My hon. Friend asked about competition and where We cannot get away from the issue at the heart of this the finishing line is, but the next stage in the competition matter—the price that can be got for oil and gas. Again, is the spending of the £90 million that my right hon. the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine Friend the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate recognised that point in relation to the price of gas. The Change has announced for some of the bidders to price of oil went to a high of $146 a barrel last year and design their projects. That is the so-called FEED—front-end then slumped to between $30 and $40 earlier this year. engineering and design—stage of the development. Let It currently stands at between $70 and $80. Given that us remember that they will be big-money projects. We the costs of delivering to the market oil from the North have established the policy on how we intend to pay for sea are between $40 and $50, which bank will look them, and we hope to legislate soon—the Queen’s Speech sympathetically at a project when the price of oil is permitting—to make that scheme come about. This below that amount? An important factor in making country is still at the forefront of such developments. finance attractive for investment purposes is the idea Indeed, this year’s Ernst and Young index has ranked that there will be a reasonable price for a product that the UK second, after the US, in its list of most attractive has been won despite harsh and difficult circumstances. countries for near-term investment in coal capture and We have to bear that in mind as a practical issue. storage. In this instance, near term means that the index I want to say something about the west of Shetland. takes a view until 2015 on the attractiveness of investing First, my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood asked in CCS demonstration projects. about environmental studies and surveys, and I have Let me add a footnote to the debate on CCS. As a said that there have been comprehensive surveys in the new Minister, in the summer, I walked around the past. I am confident that we are in a reasonable position Department to meet all the officials and to get to know in that regard, but it is still the case that detailed and who does what. In doing so, I came across a team that is area-specific assessments would have to be made for the European Union team for our collaboration with any new development. That is usual practice. China on its first CCS project, NZEC—the UK-China Another point about the west of Shetland is that it near-zero emissions coal project. So, I am proud to say brings into focus the issue of access to infrastructure. that we have here in the UK, in my Department, the We are working with Total and its partners regarding 177WH Oil and Gas29 OCTOBER 2009 Oil and Gas 178WH

[Mr. Kidney] sector. The hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine asked me to speak up for the industry. We the Laggan and Tormore fields, which we believe will work well with the industry, as I hope the next meeting bring much needed gas infrastructure to the basin. We of PILOT in November will show. We speak up for the are working with the industry to improve its code of industry, and I do not think that those are warm words practice, and we are also working on our own guidelines. or the result of complacency. I have already made that point to the hon. Member for At the beginning of the debate, I paid tribute to the Angus (Mr. Weir), but I want to stress that there is a industry and to the courage of those who risk their lives mechanism for any small or large company to seek a for it, and we were reminded of the dangers of the work determination of access conditions, price and terms by the reference that the hon. Member for Angus made from the Secretary of State. It is important that that is to the tragic helicopter crash earlier this year and the used in any case where a company does not feel that it is many lives that were lost as a result. I spoke not from getting fair and reasonable terms. words drafted for me by a civil servant, but from my I was asked about discussions with neighbouring heart, expressing my appreciation of the industry, which countries over their territories. I am aware of no ministerial we should be proud of, and the work that it does on discussions with the government of the Faroes but am behalf of this country. Hon. Members will judge me not assured that discussions on co-operation are ongoing at by my words today, but by my performance and that of official level. If fields were found in the Faroes, we the Department and the Government. I welcome that would certainly seek ways to co-operate to the benefit scrutiny and reiterate that I am determined that we will of both sides, but at present we have heard of no perform to get the best out of the industry for our discoveries there. national interest. While we are on the subject of hearing nothing, the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine Sir Nicholas Winterton (in the Chair): I congratulate asked me about replies from the statutory environmental all Members who have participated in this important bodies, and I have been told, “None so far,” so that is debate on their positive and informed contributions obviously a point for me to take away and investigate. and the Minister on his durability in opening and finishing. Several Members followed my lead, if I may say so, by praising the skills and innovation of the sector. What Question put and agreed to. the industry is able to do is of global significance, and I agree that we all need to get behind it to maximise the 4.52 pm jobs, investment and energy security we get from the Sitting adjourned. 21WS Written Ministerial Statements29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 22WS

Last year, GEW was an enormous success and generated Written Ministerial community interest in entrepreneurship; 644,000 people attended the 6,363 events. The single largest activity was the Make Your Mark Challenge which involved 56,000 students from schools Statements and colleges. Around the world there were at least 25,000 events across 77 countries. This year there are 82 countries involved as GEW gains momentum Thursday 29 October 2009 globally. We hope to make the week a success and inspire people across the world.

TREASURY DEFENCE

Corporate Taxation Implementation of the Armed Forces Act 2006

The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Stephen The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence Timms): As part of the update provided by Budget 2009 (Mr. Kevan Jones): I am pleased to announce that on the Government’s tax simplification reviews, the implementation of the Armed Forces Act 2006 will be Government committed to consult on further simplification completed and the Act will come into force on 31 October. of the associated company rules. The legislation establishes for the first time a single I am today publishing a consultation document to system of service law across the armed forces. It preserves fulfil that commitment. The consultation seeks stakeholders’ the important principle of a separate service justice views on a proposal to reform the associated company system, reflecting the particular circumstances of the rules as they apply to the small companies’ rate of armed forces, and keeps the commanding officer at the corporation tax. The proposed reform aims to benefit heart of service discipline. It also promotes greater businesses by providing a more targeted test to establish fairness, which in turn supports operational effectiveness. those companies whose profits should be considered The new single, harmonised and modernised system collectively in establishing the rate of corporation tax of service law will apply to the personnel of all three that applies to them. Further details can be found in the services at all times, wherever in the world they are consultation document, copies of which have been deposited serving. It will also apply to some civilians, but only in the Libraries of both Houses and are available on overseas and in specified circumstances. HM Treasury’s website. When the new legislation comes into force, a number of Acts of Parliament will be repealed, including the BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS current Service Discipline Acts (the Army Act 1955, the Air Force Act 1955 and the Naval Discipline Act 1957). The Armed Forces Act 2006 was the largest and Global Entrepreneurship Week arguably the most significant piece of legislation the Ministry of Defence has ever put before Parliament. Its The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, implementation has been a lengthy and complex process, Innovation and Skills (Ian Lucas): My noble Friend the but the new single system of service law that it has Minister for Trade, Investment and Small Business, established will serve the armed forces well for many Lord Davies of Abersoch, has today made the following years to come. statement: Guidance on the new service justice system is provided This year, GEW runs from 16-22 November. This is the UK’s in the “Manual of Service Law”, which is now available second GEW an initiative inspired by BIS and co-founded with on the Armed Forces Act 2006 website at the following the Kauffman Foundation in the USA. There will be more than link: http://www.mod.uk. I will also arrange for a copy 80 countries taking part in this years entertaining and stimulating to be placed in the Library of the House. week. Highlighting the importance of entrepreneurship is crucial for the future aspirations of millions of young people and the economic future of the UK. Entrepreneurs innovate, create jobs, increase HEALTH economic growth and therefore help ensure a nation’s competitiveness. They spot opportunities, take risks, have ideas and make them happen. Health and Criminal Justice Programme GEW will help budding British entrepreneurs: by accessing international networks they will be able to brainstorm new ideas, enter new markets and find new resources. It will encourage the The Minister of State, Department of Health (Phil UK’s young people to become entrepreneurs, through interactive Hope): On 30 April, my right hon. Friend the Minister events that engage those who would not otherwise have considered of State, Ministry of Justice, (Mr. Hanson), announced enterprise. And by connecting British youth with young people the Government’s response to my right hon. and noble abroad, it should increase the level of cultural understanding in the UK. Friend Lord Bradley’s review of people with mental health problems or learning disabilities in the criminal Its not just about entrepreneurs and business start ups; the week will also encourage organisations across the globe to celebrate justice system. The Government accepted the direction and recognise the wealth of talent that is evident in every business of travel set out by Lord Bradley, and committed to and to encourage their employees to start thinking about ideas developing a national delivery plan incorporating a full that have a very clear and tangible business benefit. response to the report’s recommendations. 23WS Written Ministerial Statements29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 24WS

The Government stated that they would report to The registration requirements are designed to address Parliament on the progress achieved by the end of the concerns of people using health and adult social October 2009. care services, covering the topics on which they want The Government are pleased to report that since the assurance. They provide clarity about the essential levels publication of Lord Bradley’s review, a cross-departmental of safety and quality all providers must deliver for health and criminal justice national programme board, people who use their services, without being prescriptive chaired by David Behan (Director General for Social about how providers run their services. Care, Local Government and Care Partnerships in the The registration system will operate alongside a wider Department of Health), has been established to consider quality improvement framework that encourages not Lord Bradley’s recommendations in detail and to develop just good care, but excellent care. The Commission will a national delivery plan. ‘Improving Health, Supporting have a role in contributing to ongoing quality improvement Justice’—the delivery plan of the health and criminal as part of the wider quality framework, particularly justice programme board—will be published in November through its publication of comparable information in and we will make a further written ministerial statement periodic reviews, and its power to conduct special reviews about this on the day of publication. into areas of particular interest. The Government also accepted Lord Bradley’s This publication will be of interest to anyone providing recommendation for a National Advisory Group to be or working in health and adult social care, and to established to help ensure wider involvement from interested patients and people using services, who are interested in organisations. I am pleased to announce today that how the reforms are going to improve these services. Keith Pearson who is currently chair of NHS East of England, has been appointed as the chair of the National Today’s publication has been placed in the Library Advisory Group. and copies are available to hon. Members from the Vote Office. Note: 1 Health and Adult Social Care Providers (Registration) Response to consultation on the framework for the registration of health and adult social care providers and consultation on draft regulations. The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr. Mike O’Brien): Today I am publishing a consultation response, HOME DEPARTMENT which is the latest stage in the development of the new system we are introducing for the regulation of health and adult social care. Returns to Zimbabwe The publication, “Response to consultation on the draft regulations for the framework for the registration The Minister for Borders and Immigration (Mr. Phil of health and adult social care providers” sets out our Woolas): I am announcing today our intention to make response to our previous consultation on the draft changes over time to our returns policy to Zimbabwe, regulations that will govern the new registration system1. recognising the different categories of people currently It describes how the wording of the draft regulations we living in the UK. This reflects developments in Zimbabwe have today laid before Parliament has changed since the following the formation of the inclusive Government consultation process. It also details changes in the policy led by Prime Minister Tsvangirai. for a further set of regulations, which we intend to lay As Prime Minister Tsvangirai has set out, including later this autumn. during his visit to the UK in June, there have been some The draft regulations, to be made under the powers positive changes in the situation in Zimbabwe over the provided for in the Health and Social Care Act 2008, set past six months. While a great deal remains to be done out the detail of the new registration framework to be to institute the political and other reforms set out in the operated by the Care Quality Commission. This, subject global political agreement, the indiscriminate violence to approval by Parliament, will be introduced for the which marred the elections of 2008 has abated. And the NHS in April 2010 and for private and voluntary health formation of the inclusive Government has led to care and adult social care from October 2010. improvements in the economy, schools and the availability Earlier this year, Parliament approved regulations of basic commodities. In response to this changed situation made under these powers to regulate NHS providers some Zimbabweans in the UK are considering returning against a requirement about cleanliness and infection home to help rebuild their country. I consider we should control. Since 1 April this year, NHS providers have be doing more to help them. been required to register with the Care Quality Commission On 1 February we announced enhancements to the and comply with the requirement on cleanliness and assisted voluntary return (AVR)package for Zimbabweans. infection control. AVR packages are available for individuals of all nationalities who are within the asylum system. The These draft regulations laid today set out who needs standard package provides support to help them reintegrate to register with the Care Quality Commission (scope of into their home country, including £4,000 for vocational registration) and what they need to do to register and training, assistance in setting up a business and a flight remain registered (registration requirements). home. Since February the package for Zimbabweans The new approach will mean that patients and people has been supplemented with an extra £2,000 of reintegration using services will have the same level of assurance of assistance. This includes an additional £500 cash on the quality and safety of their care and treatment, departure, an extra £1,000 “in kind” assistance for whether it is being provided by the NHS, local government, business set up, a £500 basic subsistence package and private or third sectors cholera prevention kits. 25WS Written Ministerial Statements29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 26WS

We are today changing the way we deliver our The Council then reached a general approach on the proposal supplementary package for Zimbabweans such that the for a Council decision to establish the European crime prevention total value remains the same but, instead of providing network. This instrument will strengthen the network’s ability to the assistance “in kind”, cash payments will now be identify, exchange and disseminate crime prevention information and actions targeted at traditional or volume crime. Following phased in over a six-month period through the IOM receipt of the European Parliament’s opinion on the proposal, the office in Harare. Making cash available to those who go decision will come back to the Council on the 30 November for home will support economic reform in Zimbabwe — formal adoption. enabling people to return voluntarily and use their skills Under any other business the Commission presented its review to support change and help rebuild Zimbabwe with of visa facilitation in the western Balkans. The UK does not capital behind them. The scheme will also be extended participate in the part of the Schengen acquis that covers visa until 31 December and will be reviewed at that point. liberalisation, and will not be lifting visit visa requirements for western Balkan states when the Schengen zone liberalises its own Alongside these changes to our voluntary returns requirements. The UK remains a strong supporter of the EU package we have also considered carefully our position enlargement process and the aspirations of west Balkan states for on enforced returns to Zimbabwe. We have kept this eventual EU membership. issue under review since the Home Office first deferred Over lunch Home Affairs Ministers discussed proposals for enforced returns to Zimbabwe in September 2006 and the new European Asylum Office. There was a clear desire to the courts have found that not all Zimbabweans are in move quickly. The UK has not yet decided which country to need of international protection. The UK Border Agency support to host this office. will therefore be starting work over the autumn on a In the afternoon, Justice Ministers adopted a Council resolution process aimed at normalising our returns policy to on a “roadmap” for strengthening procedural rights of suspected Zimbabwe, moving towards resuming enforced returns or accused persons in criminal proceedings. The UK supported progressively as and when the political situation develops. this pragmatic approach and the focus on practical measures as well as legislation. Justice Ministers also reached a general approach The agency takes its obligations under the 1951 refugee on a draft framework decision and an accompanying draft resolution convention seriously. We will continue to consider each on the right to interpretation and translation in criminal proceedings. case on its individual merits and where someone needs The UK congratulated the presidency on reaching agreement on protection it will be granted. However, we have always this measure which will make a real difference to the lives of expected those found not to be in need of protection to citizens. return home. We prefer these individuals to return The presidency updated Justice Ministers on the progress that voluntarily and the enhancements to the AVR scheme has been made at official level on the proposed framework will support this, but where they choose not to do so we decision on transfer of proceedings in criminal matters. The UK are bound to take steps, over time, to enforce the law. stated that its support of this measure would depend on amendments being made to the proposal, particularly provisions relating to jurisdiction. Justice and Home Affairs (Post-Council Statement) The presidency provided an update on negotiations and sought views with the aim of resolving outstanding issues on the framework decision on preventing and combating trafficking in human beings The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the and protecting victims. The Commission stressed the importance Home Department (Meg Hillier): The Justice and Home of going further than the Council of Europe convention and Affairs (JHA) Council was held in Luxembourg on welcomed the global approach to combating trafficking. It appealed, 23 October 2009. My noble Friend the Parliamentary however, for higher levels of penalties, and for greater assistance for victims. The UK supported the presidency compromise and, Under-Secretary of State for Justice, Lord Bach, the despite the UK having very limited extraterritorial jurisdiction, Scottish Minister for Community Safety, Fergus Ewing, said that it had taken the decision to extend jurisdiction to cover and I attended on behalf of the United Kingdom. The UK nationals who commit trafficking offences abroad given the following issues were discussed at the Council: seriousness of the offences involved. The presidency welcomed The Council began in Mixed Committee with non-EU Schengen the broad support for the text and concluded that formal agreement states, receiving an update from the presidency on arrangements would be reached in November. for the first milestone test for the second generation Schengen Under any other business, the Commission presented its proposal information system (SIS II). The UK stressed that the test should on succession and wills, stating that its ambition was to make the take place by the end of this year in line with the June Council lives of citizens easier. The presidency noted that there would be conclusions. The UK also stated that it was important to distinguish plenty of opportunity for discussion in the future. between a delayed and a failed test and that it would not accept a decision on the future of SIS II unless a test had failed. Next, the presidency presented an update on the current state of play on the implementation of the regulation establishing the JUSTICE Visa Information System (VIS), where technical problems would delay the launch. The UK does not participate in that regulation. Following Mixed Committee, the presidency invited the Probation Service Commission to provide a summary of the fifth annual visa reciprocity report. While the UK does not participate in the EU visa regime, we do maintain an interest in all visa issues, notably for full reciprocity with third country nationals. The Council then The Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor exchanged views on the Canadian decision to impose visas on (Mr. Jack Straw): The indicative budget for 2010-11, Czech nationals. The UK believes the Commission should continue communicated to probation chiefs in February, 2009 to engage with the Canadians to broker a solution. was £844 million, compared with a budget of £894 million The Council reached agreement on the draft framework decision in 2009-10. This would have been a 5.6 per cent. reduction on accreditation of forensic laboratory activities, which aims to year-on-year. increase mutual trust in DNA and fingerprint data exchanged between member states by requiring a minimum standard of In the light of strong representations I have received accreditation. The presidency hoped that the framework decision from the probation service and from the probation would be formally adopted at the November JHA Council. unions, and my particular concern about employment 27WS Written Ministerial Statements29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 28WS prospects for recently qualified probation officers, I can TRANSPORT announce today that the confirmed 2010-11 allocation will be £870 million, £26 million more than the original indicative budget. This equates to a reduction of 2.68 per Transport for London cent. year-on-year. This is consistent with the savings expected across the public service. The Minister of State, Department for Transport In this economic climate the probation service along (Mr. Sadiq Khan): My right hon. and noble Friend the with all public services has to achieve efficiency savings. Secretary of State for Transport, Lord Adonis, has Probation boards and trusts have been required to made the following ministerial statement: review their structures, overheads, support services and efficiency levels. This funding will enable probation The ex-Metronet investment programme covers the upgrade, maintenance and renewal of infrastructure on the Bakerloo, boards/trusts to review their staffing plans for 2010-11 Central, Victoria, Waterloo and City and the sub-surface which will benefit both the September 2009 graduates (Metropolitan, Circle, District, Hammersmith and City) lines. It and the 305 trainee probation officers due to graduate will deliver nearly 30 per cent. more capacity across the network, in September 2010. improving journey times and reliability. The additional funding will be targeted to increase Following the administration of Metronet in July 2007, its confidence in community penalties and divert low risk assets and obligations were transferred to Transport for London offenders from short term custody. Directors of offender in May 2008 as an interim measure. The former Mayor and Secretary of State for Transport tasked a Joint Steering Committee management will be required to negotiate specific service consisting of Transport for London (TfL) including London improvements with individual boards/trusts which will Underground Ltd (LUL), the Department for Transport and HM be incorporated in SLAs contracts for 2010-11 to ensure Treasury with considering a range of options for the permanent that this additional funding is targeted on front line structure of the Metronet contracts, with the objective of providing delivery. Detailed work will be undertaken by directors a stable and safe operational framework and delivering the of offender management with areas/trusts to agree modernisation, upgrade and maintenance of the tube infrastructure additional service delivery requirements and finalise at an affordable price that offered value for money for the individual allocations. taxpayer. The Mayor and I have accepted the committee’s recommendations The total case load of offenders being supervised by that the contracts inherited from Metronet should remain under the probation service rose by 53 per cent. between the direct management of LUL as the best value option under the 31 December 1997 and 31 December 2008 (from 159,200 present circumstances, with the majority of upgrades already to 243,400). This compares to an overall rise in the underway. Some of these contracts have since been renegotiated probation service budget of 70 per cent. in real terms to secure more favourable terms for LUL. Future contracts will between 1997 and 2007. be procured directly by LUL, including robust performance incentives and transferring risk where appropriate. LUL will remain responsible The total offender case load has remained stable in for all asset management decisions, but there will continue to be recent years. At 31 December 2007 there were 242,700 substantial private sector involvement through the contracts managed offenders being supervised, compared to 243,400 at by LUL. A decision on the most appropriate contracting arrangement 31 December 2008 and 244,300 at 31 March 2009. for the Bakerloo line upgrade (which has not yet started) will be taken nearer the time, reflecting lessons learnt from the earlier The overriding priority for the probation service is upgrades. public protection which will not be put at risk. Probation LUL is investing in its management and organisational capacity areas are looking to make any required savings through and capability in order to meet this new challenge. Organisational back office and management rationalisation and restructuring within LUL has also created a clearer separation of improvements in efficiency and processes, protecting client and delivery functions, with a defined sponsor for each front line delivery. project. Underpinning these new arrangements and responding to the increased size of TfL’s investment programme are new scrutiny measures at Transport for London. The Mayor will establish an independent advisory panel with remit extending across the entirety NORTHERN IRELAND of the TfL investment programme, including all maintenance, renewal, upgrades and major projects across the modes, but not operations. Report of the Chief Electoral Officer for Northern Members of the new panel will be appointed by the Mayor Ireland from a shortlist agreed with me. The Mayor and I will also agree the panel’s terms of reference. The panel will report to the TfL board and the Mayor as its chair. The members of the panel will have experience in a range of disciplines including engineering, The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Shaun finance and project management, ensuring that as a whole the Woodward): The Chief Electoral Officer for Northern panel will be able to offer expert advice, opinion and challenge on Ireland is responsible for all aspects of electoral all aspects of TfL’s investment programme, including the ex-Metronet administration in Northern Ireland, including the conduct works. of all elections and referendums, as well as electoral The panel will be able to review all aspects of project delivery registration. Section 14 of the Electoral Law Act (Northern including cost and programme deliverability. It will also review Ireland) 1962—as amended by Section 9 of the Northern delivery of the investment programme at a portfolio level, including Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2006—provides management and organisational capability and the efficiency, that the Chief Electoral Officer must submit an annual effectiveness and economy of delivery of the investment programme. The panel will report its findings directly to the TfL board, who report to the Secretary of State. The annual report of will also receive a TfL management response setting out how the the Chief Electoral Officer for Northern Ireland for the issues raised have been or will be dealt with. The panel will year 2008-09 has been laid before Parliament today. commission other reports as it or the TfL board consider appropriate. Copies are available in the Libraries of both Houses. It will publish an annual report making overall conclusions on the 29WS Written Ministerial Statements29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 30WS delivery of the investment programme. Copies of all reports will It is likely that this new opportunity will be of particular be provided to me, in view of Government’s significant contribution benefit to those in rural areas where it might not be to the investment programme through the GLA transport grant cost-effective for bus operators to run services using which accounts for just under 40 per cent. of TfL’s total income. larger buses. These new arrangements build on the work of LUL during the interim period and will offer the stability and certainty LUL need The regulations apply in England, (outside London), to deliver the investment programme inherited from Metronet Wales and Scotland. Transport for London are responsible and with it the improvements so critical to growth and prosperity for making any regulations governing PHV-buses in in London. London. The ability to run bus services has been available These arrangements are in accordance with the existing framework to the owners of licensed taxis since 1986. of devolution of powers to the Mayor, who now bears full A summary of the responses received to the consultation responsibility for delivery of the upgrade, maintenance and renewal exercise on the draft regulations, which was launched work previously the responsibility of Metronet. on 17 December 2008, has been placed in the Libraries Tube lines will remain responsible for the upgrade, maintenance of both Houses. and renewal of infrastructure on the Jubilee, Northern and Piccadilly lines under its PPP, with independent scrutiny provided by the PPP arbiter. WORK AND PENSIONS

Discretionary Social Fund Local Services (Operation by Licensed Hire Cars) Regulations 2009 The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Helen Goodman): The Secretary of State The Minister of State, Department for Transport will be making changes to the discretionary Social (Mr. Sadiq Khan): The Secretary of State for Transport Fund, with effect from 30 October 2009. has today laid regulations under the Local Transport The change introduces the requirement for most Act 2008 which will allow the owners of private hire customers to be interviewed at a local Jobcentre Plus vehicles (PHVs) to use their vehicles to provide local office when they make a third or subsequent application bus services. for a crisis loan to cover living expenses. The regulations will come into force on 27 November During such an interview customers will be provided 2009. with a leaflet that contains details of local and national Section 53 of the 2008 Act allows the holder of a organisations that can provide money management advice. PHV licence to acquire a special public service vehicle The leaflet has been placed in the Libraries of both (PSV) licence from the traffic commissioner and to Houses of Parliament and copies are also available in register a local bus service using a licensed PHV. the Vote office.

1P Petitions29 OCTOBER 2009 Petitions 2P

Measurement Scale and the General Democratic Voting Petition Scale; further notes that this petition is about the elimination of both hunger and thirst, and, especially, the fear of Thursday 29 October 2009 hunger and thirst; and further declares that he has faith in the wisdom and judgement of the British people. PRESENTED PETITION The Petitioner therefore requests that the House of Commons bears in mind in its law making a Universal Petition presented to the House but not read on the Floor Daily Cash Benefit (UDCB) to the value of the cost of Elimination of Hunger and Thirst food and drink for a day; and that should the question be put the House consents to the benefit contained in The Petition of Mr Martin Burke of Elizabeth Regina this petition; and further requests that should the question Love, be put the House of Commons consents that this petition Declares that there is no end to what the British be communicated to the world’s other parliaments. people might do when they are fed well; notes that And the Petitioners remain, etc. Mr Burke of Elizabeth Regina Love has petitioned the House of Commons to bear in mind the General Economic [P000373]

483W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 484W

Industrial Health and Safety: Materials Handling Written Answers to Equipment

Questions Mrs. Ellman: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if she will make a statement on the frequency of the checks made on cranes by crane operators. Thursday 29 October 2009 [294633]

Jonathan Shaw [holding answer 20 October 2009]: Cranes are subject to the Lifting Operations and Lifting WORK AND PENSIONS Equipment Regulations 1998 and the Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998; these two Charities sets of legislation between them provide a regime requiring inspection, maintenance and thorough examination of cranes. Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what grants her Department made to A thorough examination of a crane is required before charitable organisations in each of the last five years. first use, and thereafter at least every 12 months (six [292659] months if the crane is used for carrying people) unless alteration, damage or any other conditions make an Jonathan Shaw: The only grant payments made to a increased frequency of examination necessary. The charitable organisation by the Department for Work examination must be carried out by a competent person and Pensions are those made to Motability, which is a who is appropriately qualified and experienced. Where, charitable organisation with overall responsibility for during a thorough examination, a serious defect is the Motability scheme. More information about Motability detected, a report has to be sent by the competent can be found at: person to the enforcing authority within 28 days. www.motability.co.uk Inspection and maintenance checks must also be carried out, between thorough examinations. The frequency Grant payments to Motability for the last five years and extent of the checks are not specified by the regulations; are shown in the table. these will depend on the potential risks from the equipment, the crane manufacturer’s recommendations and the £000 conditions encountered on site. 2004-05 2,551 2005-06 2,640 Mrs. Ellman: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 2006-07 2,809 and Pensions what estimate she has made of the frequency 2007-08 2,960 with which crane operators undertake checks on the 2008-09 3,814 cranes under their control; whether self-erected cranes are to be included in the register; and if she will make a statement. [294634] Industrial Diseases: Compensation Jonathan Shaw [holding answer 20 October 2009]: Mr. Clapham: To ask the Secretary of State for Work All cranes used at work are subject to the Lifting and Pensions what criteria have been agreed with Operations and Lifting Equipment Regulations 1998 examining doctors for the diagnosis of osteoarthritis of and the Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations the knee in coal miners and former coal miners; and 1998; these two sets of legislation between them provide what steps her Department has taken to advise a regime requiring inspection, maintenance and thorough examining doctors of these criteria. [295709] examination of cranes. Health and Safety Executive inspectors consider routinely compliance with this regime Jonathan Shaw [holding answer 28 October 2009]: when undertaking both planned inspection and incident ATOS Healthcare has provided guidance to the examining investigation. doctors about the diagnosis and assessment of osteoarthritis A consultation document setting out proposals for a of the knee in underground coal miners which takes statutorily-based registration scheme for tower cranes account of the recommendations of the Industrial Injuries was published on 13 July this year. The consultation Advisory Council. closed on 16 October 2009 and the responses are being Following receipt of a claim, a Jobcentre Plus decision analysed. The HSE Board will consider the results of maker will decide whether the claimant satisfies the the consultation at its meeting on 25 November 2009, occupational criteria for the prescribed disease. If the including whether self-erected tower cranes should be prescription is satisfied, a referral is made to ATOS included in its scope. Healthcare who will request any previous X-rays and/or any relevant hospital letters relating to the condition. Mrs. Ellman: To ask the Secretary of State for Work All claimants are subsequently examined by a doctor and Pensions what qualifications persons carrying out working for ATOS Healthcare. The doctor will, through pre-use checks on cranes are required to hold; and if a combination of history and examination findings, she will make a statement. [294635] provide advice to the decision maker as to whether the condition is diagnosed, and if it is, on the level of Jonathan Shaw [holding answer 20 October 2009]: disablement with reference to a person of the same age Under the Lifting Operations and Lifting Equipment and sex whose physical and mental condition is normal. Regulations (LOLER) 1998, a thorough examination of 485W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 486W a crane is required before first use, and thereafter at PRIME MINISTER least every 12 months (six months if the crane is used Devolution for carrying people) unless alteration, damage or any other conditions make an increased frequency of Rob Marris: To ask the Prime Minister how many examination necessary. The examination must be carried times he met in a formal capacity the (a) First Minister out by a competent person who is appropriately qualified of Scotland, (b) First Minister of Wales, (c) First and experienced. Minister of Northern Ireland and (d) Leader of the The Approved Code of Practice under LOLER requires West Midlands Regional Assembly in (i) 2004-05, (ii) that the person carrying out the thorough examination 2005-06, (iii) 2006-07, (iv) 2007-08 and (v) 2008-09; and has appropriate practical and theoretical knowledge how many times he has so met the Minister for the West and experience of the lifting equipment to be thoroughly Midlands since his appointment. [293897] examined, but does not specify particular qualifications to be held by the competent person. The Prime Minister: I have regular meetings and discussions with ministerial colleagues and others. Mrs. Ellman: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Employment: EC Law and Pensions when the Health and Safety Executive plans to introduce its statutory register for tower Paul Farrelly: To ask the Prime Minister (1) what discussions he has had with representatives of trade cranes; and if she will make a statement. [294636] unions on implementing the EU Agency Workers Directive in the UK in 2011; [295056] Jonathan Shaw [holding answer 20 October 2009]: (2) what discussions he has had with (a) the The HSE is committed to having a statutorily-based Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills scheme for tower crane registration in place by the date and (b) the Minister for Employment Relations on of common commencement in April 2010. implementing the EU Agency Workers Directive in (a) A consultation document setting out proposals for a 2009, (b) 2010 and (c) 2011; [295057] statutorily-based registration scheme was published on (3) what discussions he has had with (a) members 13 July this year. The consultation closed on 16 October and (b) representatives of (i) the CBI, (ii) the EEF and and the responses are being analysed. The HSE Board (iii) British Chambers of Commerce on implementing will consider the results of the consultation at its meeting the EU Agency Workers Directive in the UK in 2011. on 25 November. [295058]

Pensioners: Social security benefits The Prime Minister: I have regular meetings with ministerial colleagues and a variety of organisations, representing employees and employers, to discuss a Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work wide range of matters, including employment issues. I and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 21 July 2009, have made clear my commitment to legislate on the Official Report, column 1321W, on pensioners: social implementation of the agency workers directive. security benefits, if she will update her estimate based upon the rate of capital disregard to be introduced in November 2009. [296540] SOLICITOR-GENERAL Animal Welfare: Prosecutions Angela Eagle: The following table shows the estimated cost of assuming different illustrative Bank of England Mr. Frank Field: To ask the Solicitor-General how rates of around 0.5 per cent. and 5 per cent. (averaged many prosecutions for offences of cruelty to animals over a year), with and without the £10,000 capital were brought by (a) the Crown Prosecution Service and disregard for pension credit, housing benefit and council (b) the Royal Society of the Prevention of Cruelty to tax benefit. Animals in the last five years. [296531] Estimated annual cost of tariff income set at approximately 1 per cent. higher than Bank of England base rate for pension credit, The Solicitor-General: The figures at Table 1 show the housing benefit and council tax benefit (2009-10 prices) number of offences of cruelty to animals in respect of Rate applied (i) Cost (ii) Cost which a prosecution was brought by the Crown Prosecution to income keeping removing Service (CPS) in each of the last five years. Illustrative above the current current Also, at Table 2, are figures showing the number of BoE rate disregard disregard disregard (percentage) (percentage) (£ million) (£ million) defendants (not offences) prosecuted by the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (RSPCA) over 0.5 1.5 300 170 the same period. RSPCA prosecutions are broken down 5 6 130 -220 to show the number and the proportion resulting in Notes: conviction and in dismissal, but no comparable analysis 1. These estimates have been calculated using the Policy Simulation is available for the figures recorded by the CPS. Model (PSM) which uses data from the Family Resources Survey (FRS). Estimates are subject to sampling and modelling uncertainty. Table 1: Crown Prosecution Service—Offences of Cruelty to Animals in which a 2. Estimates are given for two possible average rates to illustrate their prosecution commenced sensitivity to actual Bank of England base rates. 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 3. Income taken into account is rounded up to the next £1. 4. In column (i) the interest rate is applied to capital above the capital Total animal 222 214 227 273 240 disregard. cruelty offences charged1 5. Estimates do not include the cost of applying the rules to those in 1 care/nursing homes. Source: CPS Management Information System 6. Costs have been rounded to the nearest £10 million. 487W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 488W

Table 2: Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals—Defendant prosecuted for Cruelty to Animals 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Number % Number % Number % Number % Number %

Convictions 870 95.8 980 96.7 898 95.7 1,104 97.2 1,222 97.6 Dismissals 38 4.2 33 3.3 40 4.3 32 2.8 30 2.4 Total defendants 908 — 1,013 — 938 — 1,136 — 1,252 — prosecuted1 1 Source: RSPCA

Domestic Violence We are therefore unable to provide information prior to that date nor earlier than that indicated below. Nor Dr. Cable: To ask the Solicitor-General how many can we provide statistics relating to the whole of the (a) arrests, (b) prosecutions and (c) convictions of (i) United Kingdom since we do not prosecute in Scotland men and (ii) women for acts of domestic violence there or Northern Ireland. were in (A) Twickenham constituency, (B) Richmond- In our reply we have defined fraud in relation to upon-Thames and (C) London in each of the last five corporate tax as prosecutions for VAT and Direct Tax years. [296233] offences. The following table indicates the number of convictions The Solicitor-General: The arrests collection held by in England and Wales, the East of England region and the Home Office covers arrests for recorded crime (notifiable Essex. We are unable to provide details relating specifically offences) only, broken down at a main offence group to Castle Point constituency. level, covering categories such as violence against the person and robbery. From these centrally reported data England and East of it is not possible to identify specific offences from Wales England1 Essex within the main offence groups. 2009-102 55 14 7 Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) data in London is 2008-09 150 28 15 only available at borough level and cannot be broken 2007-08 226 32 21 down further. We are therefore unable to provide the 2006-07 172 8 7 data for the Twickenham constituency as requested, as 1 Prosecutions conducted in courts in the following counties: Essex, this would incur disproportionate cost (Code of Practice Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Norfolk and Suffolk. on Access to Government Information, part 2, clause 9). 2 This information covers the 6 month period April to September In the London borough of Richmond there were 2009 only 15 domestic violence prosecutions in 2005-6, 74 prosecutions It should be noted that simply because a conviction is in 2006-7, 92 prosecutions in 2007-8, 101 prosecutions recorded in the East of England or Essex, it does not in 2008-9 and in the first 6 months of 2009-10 there follow that either the crime or the defendants are linked have been 82 prosecutions for domestic violence. with that area. For example, a case could have been During the course of these last five years, there have moved there by HM Court Service for logistical reasons. been 364 cases prosecuted. Of these, only 13 cases have involved female defendants; 350 have involved male defendants; and in one case the gender was not recorded. ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS There were 226 successful prosecutions out of the 364 cases prosecuted. Biodiversity Targets In the CPS London Area in 2005-6 there were 4,968 prosecutions for domestic violence, in 2006-7 there were 15. Simon Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for 6,292, in 2007-8 there were 6,688, in 2008-9 there were Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what progress 7193 and in the first six months of 2009-10 there have his Department has made towards meeting its 2010 been 4,035 prosecutions for domestic violence. biodiversity targets; and if he will make a statement. Of these 29,176 prosecutions, 1,320 relate to female [296315] defendants; 27,847 relate to male defendants; and in Huw Irranca-Davies: We have made good progress on nine cases the gender was not recorded. There were all of our biodiversity priorities. In particular, 89 per 16,753 successful prosecutions out of the 29,176 cases cent. of Sites of Special Scientific Interest are now in prosecuted. favourable or recovering condition; agri-environment schemes are leading to significant improvements; we Fraud: Convictions have made great strides on the Marine and Coastal Access Bill; and internationally we continue to support Bob Spink: To ask the Solicitor-General how many a wide range of conservation projects through our convictions for offences of fraud in relation to Darwin Initiative. corporate tax there were in (a) the UK, (b) the East of England region, (c) Essex and (d) Castle Point Household Waste constituency in each of the last 10 years. [296071] 16. Martin Linton: To ask the Secretary of State for The Solicitor-General: Revenue and Customs Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps his Prosecutions Office was established in April 2005 as an Department is taking together with local authorities to independent prosecuting authority in England and Wales. ensure household waste is dealt with effectively. [296317] 489W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 490W

Dan Norris: We have worked with local authorities to Huw Irranca-Davies: Bluefin tuna was the subject of make great improvements in effectively managing household a Commission presentation and statements by member waste over the last 10 years: recycling rates have more states at the October Council of Fisheries Ministers in than quadrupled. preparation for the annual meeting of the International We recognise there is still much more to do and the Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas. I Government will continue to work with local authorities, have stated previously that UK supports CITES listing and others, to move towards a zero waste nation. for this species. However, in line with the common EU position, I look forward to ICCAT coming forward Grain Farmers: Income with appropriate management measures to reflect the latest stock position. I have made clear to EU colleagues that this is a critical issue and a test of ICCAT’s 17. Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for credibility. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate he has made of the average income of grain farmers in Departmental Catering each of the last three years. [296319] Mr. Philip Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State Jim Fitzpatrick: The average farm business income for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs with reference for cereal farmers in England was £73,400 in 2007-08, to the answer of 26 November 2008, Official Report, up from £45,900 the year before. column 1595W, how much subsidy his Department Figures for 2008-09 are published today. received in respect of externally contracted catering services for staff in each of the last five years. [289071] Bovine Tuberculosis Dan Norris: From information held centrally, the 18. Michael Fabricant: To ask the Secretary of State subsidy paid in respect of externally contracted catering for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many services for staff in the core-Department in each of the cattle diagnosed with bovine tuberculosis were last five years is as follows: slaughtered in the most recent month for which figures April to March each year £ are available; and if he will make a statement. [296320] 2005-06 172,440 19. Mr. Crabb: To ask the Secretary of State for 2006-07 172,440 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many cattle 2007-08 192,594 were slaughtered following a diagnosis of bovine 2008-09 169,372 tuberculosis in the most recent month for which figures 2009-10 186,072 are available. [296321] The year on year figures are not a comparable series Jim Fitzpatrick: In July 2009 2,350 cattle in GB were because over the periods identified there have been slaughtered as TB reactors or inconclusive reactors. A changes to the number of sites offering catering services further 45 were slaughtered as direct contacts. to staff, changes to catering facilities to accommodate It should be remembered that TB is a chronic disease, increased throughput and rationalisation of suppliers and as such, the long-term trend is more significant down to one for all current core-DEFRA sites. than looking at any short-term trends. Domestic Waste: Waste Disposal European Habitats Directive Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will place in 20. Mr. Swayne: To ask the Secretary of State for the Library a copy of the Navigator waste Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what infrastructure study results. [294563] responsibility he has for enforcement of the provisions of the European Habitats Directive; and if he will Dan Norris: A copy of the Navigator waste infrastructure make a statement. [296322] study results will be made available in the House Library. Huw Irranca-Davies: The Secretary of State’s powers Food: Packaging to enforce the implementation of the European Habitats Directive are set out in the 1994 Habitats Regulations. Mr. Illsley: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, These include powers under regulations 22 and 23 to Food and Rural Affairs what assessment he has made of make Special Nature Conservation Orders specifying categories of products which are presented for sale in operations likely to destroy or damage sites protected unnecessary packaging; and if he will make a statement. under the directive, and to serve a notice on any person [295593] carrying out or proposing to carry out such an operation which has the effect of prohibiting such an operation. Dan Norris: There is no fixed definition of what constitutes ‘unnecessary packaging’; decisions have to Bluefin Tuna be made on a case by case basis and as such these decisions will only be relevant to that particular product. 21. Mr. Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for However, one way of identifying opportunities for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent packaging reductions is to use benchmarking tools such discussions he has had with his EU counterparts on as the Waste and Resources Action Programme’s “Best preservation of bluefin tuna. [296324] in Class” database. This database compares a range of 491W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 492W packaging solutions used for the same product and Huw Irranca-Davies: Natural England investigates ranks them from the lightest to the heaviest. We encourage complaints about injurious weeds on behalf of DEFRA. all users of packaging to make use of this data when During 2009, Natural England has issued 189 enforcement specifying packaging. Action on the basis of this notices under the Weeds Act 1959 requiring occupiers information is often taken at the sector level through to take action to prevent injurious weeds spreading to voluntary agreements e.g. the Courtauld Commitment, neighbouring land. Of these 189 enforcement notices, or can be taken by individual packaging producers. 15 were issued by the Natural England office in Worcester which covers the Eddisbury constituency area. It is not Greyhounds possible to be specific about the number issued for the Eddisbury constituency, nor is it possible to provide an Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for estimate of what proportion of ragwort has been removed Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will bring because this information is not held centrally. forward proposals for a central database to trace the Recycling: Greater London lifespan of each greyhound bred for racing. [296281]

Jim Fitzpatrick [holding answer 28 October 2009]: Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for We have no plans to bring forward such proposals. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what percentage However, we will be introducing a requirement that all of its targets for recycling waste each London borough racing greyhounds must be micro-chipped, with the achieved in (a) 2006-07 and (b) 2007-08. [296129] details of the owner placed on one of the existing microchip databases. Dan Norris: For the period in question, local authorities had one statutory recycling target consisting of two Ragwort parts: Best Value Performance Indicators (BVPIs) 82a (household dry recycling rate) and 82b (household Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State composting rate). Statutory recycling targets were set for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps for 2005-06 and 2007-08, but not for 2006-07. his Department has taken to remove ragwort (a) in The tables show the recycling and composting rate; Eddisbury constituency and (b) nationally in 2009; the target for these combined rates; and whether it met and what estimate he has made of the proportion of the target or not and by how much for each of the ragwort which has been removed. [295608] 33 local authorities in London, for 2005-06 and 2007-08.

2007-08 Dry recycling Recycling and rate (BVPI Com posting rate Recycling rate Composting Authority 82a) (BVPI 82b) (82a+b) Target Met target Percentage gap

Bexley LB 24.03 17.62 41.64 30 Exceeded 11.64 Tower Hamlets LB 12.89 0.15 13.04 20 Not met -6.96 City of London 33.02 0.38 33.39 20 Exceeded 13.39 Westminster City 21.88 0.84 22.72 20 Exceeded 2.72 Council Redbridge LB 17.39 5.00 22.38 20 Exceeded 2.38 Newham LB 12.34 2.06 14.40 20 Not met -5.60 Havering LB 16.16 7.82 23.98 27 Not met -3.02 Barking and 14.83 5.58 20.41 20 Met 0.41 Dagenham LB Waltham Forest LB 19.69 10.05 29.74 20 Exceeded 9.74 Islington LB 20.92 5.41 26.33 20 Exceeded 6.33 Haringey LB 19.11 6.57 25.68 20 Exceeded 5.68 Hackney LB 15.85 6.53 . 22.38 20 Exceeded 2.38 Enfield LB 18.08 10.11 28.19 27 Exceeded 1.19 Camden LB 23.89 3.23 27.12 30 Not met -2.88 Barnet LB 18.26 12.42 30.68 27 Exceeded 3.68 Southwark LB 16.01 4.02 20.02 20 Met 0.02 Lewisham LB 21.40 0.58 21.99 30 Not met -8.01 Greenwich LB 25.74 4.78 30.52 20 Exceeded 10.52 Sutton LB 22.61 9.86 32.48 30 Exceeded 2.48 Merton LB 23.33 3.75 27.08 21 Exceeded 6.08 Royal Borough of 18.96 6.66 25.62 30 Not met -4.38 Kingston upon Thames Croydon LB 16.42 6.29 22.71 30 Not met -7.29 Bromley LB 27.62 6.84 34.46 21 Exceeded 13.46 Richmond upon 24.60 11.54 36.14 20 Exceeded 16.14 Thames LB Hounslow LB 17.49 4.26 21.75 30 Not met -8.25 493W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 494W

2007-08 Dry recycling Recycling and rate (BVPI Com posting rate Recycling rate Composting Authority 82a) (BVPI 82b) (82a+b) Target Met target Percentage gap

Hillingdon LB 21.17 12.58 33.76 21 Exceeded 12.76 Harrow LB 21.35 18.20 39.55 24 Exceeded 15.55 Ealing LB 21.08 7.86 28.94 30 Not met -1.06 Brent LB 12.08 8.90 20.98 20 Exceeded 0.98 Wandsworth LB 24.37 0.29 24.66 24 Exceeded 0.66 Lambeth LB 22.54 2.58 25.12 30 Not met -4.88 Royal Borough of 27.03 0.90 27.93 21 Exceeded 6.93 Kensington and Chelsea Hammersmith and 25.39 1.50 26.89 24 Exceeded 2.89 Fulham LB

2005-06 Dry recycling rate (BVPI Composting rate Recycling rate Recycling and Authority 82a) (BVPI 82b) (82a+b) composting target Met target Percentage gap

Bexley LB 21.5 16.21 37.71 30 Exceeded 7.71 Tower Hamlets LB 8.85 0 8.85 18 Not met -9.15 City of London 18.1 0 18.1 18 Met 0.1 Westminster City 17.79 0.5 18.29 18 Met 0.29 Council Redbridge LB 12.79 4.55 17.34 21 Not met -3.66 Newham LB 8.63 1.5 10.13 18 Not met -7.87 Havering LB 11.85 5.96 17.81 27 Not met -9.19 Barking and 12.18 4.42 16.6 18 Not met -1.4 Dagenham LB Waltham Forest LB 13.44 8.41 21.85 18 Exceeded 3.85 Islington LB 15.7 2.59 18.29 18 Met 0.29 Haringey LB 16.08 3.15 19.23 18 Exceeded 1.23 Hackney LB 11.84 4.37 16.21 18 Not met -1.79 Enfield LB 16.92 10.37 27.29 27 Met 0.29 Camden LB 22.24 4.9 27.14 30 Not met -2.86 Barnet LB 17.98 9.4.9 27.47 27 Met 0.47 Southwark LB 11.55 3.41 14.96 18 Not met -3.04 Lewisham LB 11.96 0.24 12.2 18 Not met -5.8 Greenwich LB 18.16 3.5 21.66 18 Exceeded 3.66 Sutton LB 20.21 8.86 29.07 30 Not met -0.93 Merton LB 19.35 3.24 22.59 27 Not met -4.41 Royal Borough of 17.41 6.56 23.97 30 Not met -6.03 Kingston upon Thames Croydon LB 12.99 3.18 16.17 30 Not met -13.8 Bromley LB 22.79 4.46 27.25 21 Exceeded 6.25 Richmond upon 21.06 7.53 28.59 30 Not met -1.41 Thames LB Hounslow LB 15.74 3.51 19.25 30 Not met -10.8 Hillingdon LB 16.3 11.4 27.7 21 Exceeded 6.7 Harrow LB 13.66 13.04 26.7 24 Exceeded 2.7 Ealing LB 15.36 3.92 19.28 30 Not met -10.7 Brent LB 10.89 9.12 20.01 18 Exceeded 2.01 Wandsworth LB 20.63 0.33 20.96 24 Not met -3.04 Lambeth LB 18.96 3.19 22.15 21 Exceeded 1.15 Royal Borough of 19.29 0.65 19.94 30 Not met -10.1 Kensington and Chelsea Hammersmith and 21 0.49 21.49 24 Not met -2.51 Fulham LB Source: WasteDataFlow 495W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 496W

Rivers: Canoeing Chris Mole: The Department for Transport is not a party to the contract between Carlisle and Eurostar. Mr. Grogan: To ask the Secretary of State for However, details of the contract are publicly available Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans he from the Official Journal of the EU (218/2008). This has to increase access to rivers for canoeists. [296318] indicates that a six-year contract was awarded on 2 October 2008 with a value of £14 million. The document Huw Irranca-Davies: We have been working, through is on the internet at the following address: our agencies, to provide better access to inland water for http://www.dgmarket.com/tenders/np-notice.do~3237100 canoeists and other users. In relation to payments made prior to that date, as The Environment Agency’s work on four pilot rivers the Department is not party to these contracts it has no aimed to increase understanding of access agreements information regarding their value. and develop a toolkit for others to use, and shows what can be achieved by agreements. Over time there is scope Fire Services: Working Hours for voluntary agreements to significantly increase the amount of inland water accessible to all. Mr. Goodwill: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport what recent guidance his Department has issued to fire and rescue services on the application of TRANSPORT European Road Transport Working Time Regulation (EC) 561/2006 in respect of retained firefighters who Aviation: Carbon Emissions drive vehicles and who also (a) work as commercial Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department drivers and (b) work in other occupations. [296495] for Transport what estimate he has made of the carbon footprint of an air passenger when travelling from Paul Clark: The EU Regulation on drivers’ hours London to New York in (a) first, (b) business and (c) (Regulation (EC) 561/2006) prescribes maximum limits on driving time and minimum requirements for breaks economy class. [296605] and rest periods. Paul Clark: No estimates of the carbon footprint of The then Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for an air passenger when travelling from London to New Transport met with the Retained Firefighters Union in Yo rk i n (a) first, (b) business and (c) economy class November 2008 and explained that time spent on duty have been made. as a retained firefighter outside a driver’s regular The Department for Environment, Food and Rural employment counts as other work rather than rest. As a Affairs, in partnership with the Department for Energy result, the driver is required, in common with other and Climate Change, published guidance for businesses drivers who have a second job, to declare it as a period and organisations on how to measure and report their of other work and ensure that the required daily and greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions in September 2009. weekly rest periods are taken. Indicative emission factors, by seating class, were developed on the basis of the average area occupied Local Transport Plans: Carbon Emissions compared to an economy class passenger. The factors are available at: Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/business/reporting/ for Transport with reference to the guidance issued in conversion-factors.htm July 2009 to local transport authorities on the production of local transport plans, by what percentage or other Departmental Public Expenditure amount local transport authorities are expected to reduce greenhouse gas emissions as a result of their local Robert Neill: To ask the Minister of State, Department transport plans; and what proportion of those reductions for Transport what recent discussions he has had with is expected to be attributable to (a) policies implemented the Chancellor of the Exchequer on whether funding under local transport plans and (b) other factors. allocated to his Department is to be re-allocated to the [296417] Department for Communities and Local Government to help implement the housing policies announced in Mr. Khan: The performance of local authorities on the Draft Legislative Programme for 2009-10. [290488] transport, including CO2 emissions, is managed through Chris Mole: The Secretary of State for the Department the National Indicator Set and through Local Area for Transport discussed his Department’s contribution Agreements. Of 152 local authorities, 102 have already to the housing policies announced in the Draft Legislative selected National Indicator 186—measuring the per Programme with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, as capita reduction in CO2 emissions—as a priority in part of the process of publishing Building Britain’s their Local Area Agreement, demonstrating their Future. commitment to reducing carbon emissions. Recent local transport plan guidance recognises that Eurostar: Cleaning Services local authorities are particularly important partners in helping reduce greenhouse gas emissions in line with Mr. Dismore: To ask the Minister of State, Department our climate change goal for transport. The Government for Transport (1) when the Eurostar Carlisle Cleaning have a policy of devolving responsibility to local transport Group contract is to be renewed; [295905] authorities so they can make the right choices for their (2) what payments have been made by Eurostar to local areas. It would therefore not be appropriate for Carlisle Group in the last five years; and what payments Government to specify the amount of greenhouse gas are expected to be made in the next three years. [295906] emissions reductions expected from each authority. 497W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 498W

Motor Vehicles: Norwich West Coast Railway Line: Speed Limits

Chloe Smith: To ask the Minister of State, Mr. Martlew: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport how many vehicles were Department for Transport whether there are plans for registered for (a) personal and (b) business use in the improvement of the West Coast Main Line track Norwich North constituency in (i) 1997, (ii) 2007 and north of Preston to increase running speeds. [296830] (iii) 2009. [296020] Chris Mole: The recently completed modernisation Paul Clark: The following table provides the number of the West Coast Main Line maximised the opportunities of privately- and company-owned vehicles in the North for line speed improvements north of Preston. While Norwich constituency that were licensed at the end of the curvature of the line limits speeds in a number of the year in (i) 1997, (ii) 2007 and (iii) 2008. Data for places, significant sections of 125 miles per hour running 2009 are not available: have been delivered bringing greatly reduced journey times for passengers. Privately- Company- owned vehicles owned vehicles Total 1997 40,349 8,342 48,691 WALES 2007 51,323 9,283 60,606 2008 51,685 8,324 60,009 Digital Broadcasting

There are a number of vehicles in the Driver and Mr. Crabb: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales (1) Vehicle Licensing Agency database which have incomplete what discussions he has had with telecommunications or inaccurate postcodes and therefore cannot be allocated providers on the loss of ITV channels as a result of to any constituency. digital switchover in Wales; [294317] (2) what discussions he has had with the Secretary of Motor Vehicles: Registration State for Culture, Media and Sport on the loss of ITV channels as a result of digital switchover in Wales. Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department [294316] for Transport how many (a) passenger cars and (b) light vans (i) were de-registered and (ii) had their registration Mr. Hain: The “loss” of television channels to some certification annulled in the latest year for which information viewers has occurred not because of the digital switchover, is available; and how many certificates of destruction but because of a national re-tune. The Broadcasters were issued for end-of-life vehicles in the latest year for decided to go ahead with the re-organisation of the which information is available. [296414] Freeview platform in order to make space for the introduction of new technology to enable High Definition services on the digital terrestrial television (or Freeview) Paul Clark: The information sought is not held in the platform. It has also increased the availability of Channel format requested. Separate figures are not recorded for Five to the point where it can now be received in almost passenger cars and light vans. all households across the UK—98.5 per cent. An estimated In the financial year 2008-09: 500,000 Freeview homes will be able to see Channel (a) the total number of vehicles destroyed was 1,109,574; Five for the first time after re-tuning. (b) the total number of certificates of destruction issued was Around 78,000 viewers in Wales, who receive their 1,026,054; transmissions via a relay station, may have lost access to (c) the total number of vehicles de-registered on the Driver and ITV 3 or ITV 4 following the re-tune but many viewers Vehicle Licensing Agency vehicle register was 909,653. will of course have gained Channel Five and HD capability. These channels are not necessarily permanently unavailable Railways: Environment Protection as there are alternative means of accessing both. Viewers can find out how to do so by contacting Digital UK via their website at: Keith Vaz: To ask the Minister of State, Department www.digitaluk.co.uk for Transport what procedures are in place to or the helpline on 08456 505050 or by investing in encourage train operating companies to improve their alternative platforms such as Freesat, cable or satellite—not environmental efficiency demands. [296044] all of which require a subscription. Chris Mole: In the 2007 rail White Paper “Delivering a Sustainable Railway”, the Government committed to setting an environmental target for the railway in Control DEFENCE Period 5 (2014-19). This is under development. In addition, the Department for Transport has included Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations environmental objectives in recent rail franchise specifications requiring operators to report on Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for environmental performance and put in place measures Defence how many members of the Territorial Army in to reduce environmental impacts. The rail industry also each region who have served in Afghanistan have been reports its total energy consumption and carbon emissions awarded the Military Cross in each of the last seven to the Office of Rail Regulation on an annual basis. years. [296498] 499W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 500W

Bill Rammell: Three members of the Territorial Army Bill Rammell: The decision by the Ascension Island who have served in Afghanistan have been awarded the Government to remove a variation in the Ministry of Military Cross in the last seven years (2003-09). One in Defence’s annual property tax liability, which had the 2007 and two in 2009. effect of almost doubling the amount, is currently being disputed. The MOD, therefore, has not paid this new Armed Forces: Injuries tax liability in full. Discussions are ongoing in order to seek an agreement Dr. Kumar: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence that is fair and equitable, and assurance that the services how many former service personnel who left the armed received from the Ascension Island Government represent forces as a result of injury since 1997 were from (a) best value for money. The Ascension Island Council has England, (b) Teesside and (c) Middlesbrough South commissioned an HMRC-led study, supported by the and East Cleveland constituency. [296393] Foreign and Commonwealth Office, into tax arrangements on Ascension Island. The Ministry of Defence is being Mr. Kevan Jones: This information is not held centrally consulted as part of this study. and could be provided only at disproportionate cost as residential address information for former service personnel Departmental Postal Services is not held with reference to country, county or parliamentary constituency. Further, there are significant Mr. Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for questions over the accuracy and completeness of what Defence which companies are under contract to his is held; for example, some ex-service personnel do not Department to provide mail services; and when each provide a valid contact address on leaving the services such contract expires. [296080] or do not notify the MOD of a change of address if they move. Bill Rammell: The MOD contracts solely with Royal Mail Group for provision of mail services through the Armed Forces: Somalia Forces Mail Settlement. The terms of the contract which ran until 1 April 2009, continue to operate pending agreement and signature of a new contract. Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many members of the armed forces are Departmental Travel assigned to operations (a) in and (b) related to Somalia; and whether any increase in such assignments Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for is planned. [295174] Defence what his Department’s policy is on (a) members of his Department and (b) uniformed members of the Bill Rammell: The UK armed forces have provided a armed forces using first class travel on official business; colonel to the UN political office in Somalia. We have and if he will make a statement. [295682] also provided staff officers on request for short periods of time to support the AU Mission in Somalia (AMISOM), Mr. Kevan Jones [holding answer 26 October 2009]: and we provide training assistance to AMISOM forces When movement is by commercial airline, as opposed before deployment. The UK is also carrying out training to MOD charter or part-charter, class of travel is determined and support activity with countries in the region in by the length of flight and the rank or civil service grade order to reduce the threat of terrorist activity. of the passenger. The majority of armed forces and We are providing considerable support to counter-piracy civilian personnel will travel economy, tourist or budget operations off the coast of Somalia. The Royal Navy is class. Only when flights are longer than 2.5 hours will contributing two frigates and a support tanker, as well the passenger be entitled to travel club, executive, new as sizeable contributions to all of the operation economy, ambassador or premier economy. Two star headquarters. Some 320 members of the armed forces officers and above and two star senior civil service and are specifically engaged in countering piracy as part of above, will mostly travel by club, executive, business, the EU operation ATALANTA and NATO Operation new economy, ambassador or premier. However, when OCEAN SHIELD. A further 560 are contributing to this class of travel is not available, the flight is longer maritime security in the region within NATO and the than 2.5 hours, and this is the only method of travel combined maritime forces, including countering smuggling available to meet with designated service priorities, then and piracy. the passenger is entitled to travel first class. MOD is looking to enhance international operations For rail and sea travel, most will travel by standard underway in and around Somalia, and is working with class. However, officers and civil servants who are Lieutenant our international colleagues on the best way in which Commander, Major, Squadron Leader, pay band C2 we can support security sector development for the and above, travelling on duty, are entitled to first class Somali Transitional Federal Government. These travel. considerations include manpower enhancements in niche Regardless of entitlement, though, all personnel are capacities where UK expertise can make a difference. strongly encouraged to use the most economic means of travel at all times. Ascension Island Gurkhas: Pensions Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what progress he has made in his discussions Lembit Öpik: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence with the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth whether there have been any recent changes to the Affairs on future funding arrangements for Ascension Gurkha pension plan; and whether any changes are Island. [295620] expected to take effect in the next five months. [296831] 501W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 502W

Mr. Kevan Jones: The last changes made to the pension Territorial Army arrangements affecting Gurkha personnel were in October 2007 when the MOD initiated the Gurkha offer to Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for transfer for serving and recently retired Gurkhas to Defence which Territorial Army units the armed forces allow them to transfer their pension benefits to one of Minister has visited since his appointment. [296191] two armed forces pension schemes. This offer was limited Bill Rammell [holding answer 27 October 2009]: I solely to service after 1 July 1997. There are no plans to visited 203 (Welsh) Field Hospital (Volunteers) in Cardiff make changes to the current Gurkha pension arrangements. in August 2009 and 4th Battalion the Mercian Regiment at Camp Bastion in July. Military Aircraft Trident Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many aircraft of each type are assigned to Defence when he expects to make the initial gate decision the (a) 12 Squadron, (b) 14 Squadron, (c) XV Squadron, on the replacement of the Trident nuclear weapons (d) 617 Squadron, (e) 42 (R) Squadron, (f) 120 Squadron, system; and what immediate costs are associated with (g) 201 Squadron, (h) 43 Squadron, (i) 111 Squadron initiation of the project. [295390] and (j) 202 Squadron D Flight. [296034] Mr. Bob Ainsworth: The Defence Board will consider Bill Rammell: The number of aircraft assigned to the work required during the Concept Phase later this particular squadrons may vary on a daily basis. As at 23 year. October the information requested is provided in the Work on replacing our deterrent submarines was following table: initiated on April 2007 with the start of the project’s Concept Phase. Since the beginning of April 2007 to the Squadron Aircraft type end of September 2009 some £320 million has been spent. The Initial Gate decision marks the end of the 12 Squadron Nil Tornado GR4 (Squadron currently on Concept Phase. The final spend on reaching Initial Gate post operational leave) cannot be calculated until after that point is reached. 14 Squadron 9 Tornado GR4 Until Initial Gate decisions are made it is too early to XV Squadron 19 Tornado GR4 say what the likely expenditure will be for the period 617 Squadron 11 Tornado GR4 between that time and the Main Gate decision point, 42(R) Squadron All use Nimrod MR2 aircraft from a pool of 11 which is when the principal contracts with industry will 120 Squadron As above be signed. 201 Squadron As above 43 Squadron Disbanded on 13 July 2009 FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE 111 Squadron 13 Tornado F3 Afghanistan: Elections D Flight, 202 2 Sea King Mk3 Squadron Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he has received Military Decorations of the (a) number of those eligible to vote and (b) level of turnout in each district of Helmand province in the Dr. Murrison: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence recent Presidential elections in Afghanistan. [295622] what estimate he has made of the number of servicemen Mr. Ivan Lewis: 460,811 people registered to vote in eligible for a medal to mark their service in the armed Helmand in 2004 and 156,662 in 2008. Holders of voter forces since 1945; and what estimate has been made of registration cards from both 2004 and 2008 were eligible the cost of issuing such a medal. [296799] to vote in the 2009 elections. The final certified numbers of votes in the first round Mr. Kevan Jones: There are no plans to institute a of the presidential elections, following the completion medal solely for being a member of the armed forces. of the election audit process by the Independent Election Medals are primarily awarded for campaign service, for Commission (IEC) and the Electoral Complaints individual acts of gallantry and for long and meritorious Commission (ECC), for each Helmand district are as service. follows: Nuclear Submarines Lashkar Gah—28,992 NahriSaraj—16,895 Nad-e-Ali—3,374 Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Sangin—399 Defence pursuant to the answer of 2 April 2009, Official Report, column 1400W, on nuclear submarines, Kajaki—313 Musa Qala—4,580 how many such incidents resulted in fatalities. [295434] Nowzad—0 Bill Rammell: There were two fatalities as a result of Nawa—2,612 an explosion onboard HMS Tireless in March 2007, the Garmsir—4,528 fire from which was categorised as Medium Scale in the Khaneshin—260 earlier answer given on 2 April by my predecessor, Vashir—2,563 the right hon. Member for Coventry, North-East The number of votes for each district was reduced (Mr. Ainsworth) There have been no other fatalities as a after the IEC and ECC completed their process to result of fires since 1987. exclude fraudulent votes (on 19 October 2009). 503W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 504W

Afghanistan: Foreign Relations she could communicate with others in writing, with prior consent by the authorities; Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for she would be permitted visitors, subject to approval by the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment authorities; and he has made of the implications of the report of the she could make requests to the authorities to meet any other Afghanistan Electoral Complaints Commission for the needs she might identify. Government’s policy towards that country; and if he Aung San Suu Kyi has asked the regime for clarification will make a statement. [295193] on the terms of her detention and the processes that need to be observed but has not yet had a response. It is Mr. Ivan Lewis [holding answer 26 October 2009]: not yet clear whether these terms will be honoured in We welcome the audit process, completed on 19 October, full by the Burmese authorities, but our ambassador to conducted by the Independent Election Commission Burma, as local EU presidency, was allowed to meet (IEC) and Electoral Complaints Commission (ECC), Aung San Suu Kyi together with diplomats from the US which was robust and transparent and we are confident and Australian embassies on 9 October 2009. This was in their findings. On 20 October 2009, the IEC set a date a small, but welcome, development. We urge the authorities for the second round of the presidential elections and to allow her regular and unfettered access to her party President Karzai and Dr. Abdullah confirmed that they and other democratic and ethnic leaders, and to embark will both run in this. on a genuine and inclusive process of dialogue and We are also confident that a second round, due to be national reconciliation. We continue to call for Aung held 7 November 2009, can be carried out. Planning for San Suu Kyi’s immediate and unconditional release as the eventuality that a second round would be required well as the release of the more than 2,000 political has been taking place for some time and we will continue prisoners detained alongside her. to provide support for the ongoing preparations. The Our ambassador raised the conditions of Aung San IEC and Afghan security forces, with UN and International Suu Kyi’s house arrest with Burmese Ministers most Security Assistance Force support, are working to maximise recently on 16 October 2009, and will continue to do so the opportunities for people to vote. at every opportunity. Afghanistan needs a credible second round and a credible conclusion to this process, resulting in a government Departmental Public Expenditure that represents the legitimate will of the Afghan people. Our policy to support this process through to the end, and to encourage all parties to respect Afghanistan’s Mr. Todd: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Constitution and Electoral Law, remains consistent and and Commonwealth Affairs what steps his Department firm. is taking to implement the efficiency recommendations of the Operational Efficiency Programme relating to Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations his Department; and what training is available to (a) Ministers and (b) officials in his Department in respect Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for of the delivery of value for money savings. [296004] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what the terms of reference for the latest review of the Helmand road Chris Bryant: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office map are; and in what way they differ from the terms of (FCO) is committed to playing its part in the further reference for previous reviews. [295619] efficiency savings targets announced in the 2009 budget as part of the wider Government drive to deliver an Mr. Ivan Lewis: We review the Helmand road map additional £5 billion in savings for the Operational regularly, monitoring the delivery of stabilisation work Efficiency Programme in 2010-11. in response to operational changes. The road map is designed as a living document, constantly reviewed and The FCO contribution to this target (including BBC updated in light of lessons learned. Our stabilisation World Service and British Council) is £20 million. The work in Helmand in support of the Afghan Government FCO will meet its part through further efficiencies in is a fundamental part of the campaign. procurement, corporate services and FCO Services costs. There are no specific financial training courses for Aung San Suu Kyi FCO Ministers. Financial training available for officials includes a number of different targeted courses which Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign includes elements covering value for money savings. and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports he has received of the conditions under which Aung San Suu Embassies: Civil Partnerships Kyi is being held; what recent discussions he has had with the government of Burma on the matter; and if he will make a statement. [296494] Lynne Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many civil partnerships Mr. Ivan Lewis: Aung San Suu Kyi’s latest term of 18 have been celebrated in British consulates. [296863] months under house arrest began with the conclusion of her sham trial on 11 August 2009. The terms of her Chris Bryant: Since the introduction of the Civil detention were stated by the court to be: Partnership Act on 18 November 2004, 487 civil she must remain on her compound; partnerships have been registered at British consulates she would be permitted medical treatment from her own overseas. The following table provides information on doctor when required; the countries where British consulates can register civil she could read state and private Burmese newspapers (subject partnerships and the number registered since the to censorship) and watch the two state TV channels ; introduction of the Act. 505W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 506W

respect of statements about Israel made by the President Countries where civil partnerships Registrations can be registered of Iran at the United Nations General Assembly; and if he will make a statement. [296565] Argentina 7 Australia (except Tasmania1) 308 Mr. Ivan Lewis: We made clear our condemnation of Austria 2 the Iranian President’s speech during the UN General Bulgaria 1 Assembly by leaving the room. Prior to this speech at Canada1 1 the UN, President Ahmadinejad had given a similarly Colombia 19 outrageous speech at Friday Prayers at Tehran University, Costa Rica 0 during which he again denied the Holocaust and warned Croatia 1 that “the Zionist regime was doomed to destruction”. Czech Republic1 3 In response to this speech my right hon. Friend the Guatemala 3 Foreign Secretary issued a statement denouncing his Hungary1 4 claims as “abhorrent as well as ignorant”, and calling Ireland 17 on the world community to “stand up against this tide Israel 1 of abuse”. It is totally unacceptable that one member of Japan 22 the UN should repeatedly threaten the existence of Latvia 0 another. Malta 0 The Government have consistently condemned the Moldova 0 Iranian President’s inflammatory comments about the State Mongolia 0 of Israel and his offensive statements about the Holocaust. Panama 4 Such rhetoric is a recipe for instability and only serves Peru 7 to undermine international confidence in Iran’s willingness Philippines 0 to act as a respectable member of the international Portugal 7 community. We will continue to speak out in response South Africa1 19 to such deplorable and ignorant comments. Switzerland1 5 Turkmenistan 0 Middle East: Armed Conflict Uruguay 0 Venezuela 7 Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Vietnam 49 and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he (a) has Total 487 taken in the last six months and (b) plans to take in the 1 Have subsequently introduced their own civil partnership next 12 months to assist the Egyptian Government to legislation. stop the smuggling of offensive weapons into Gaza; Iran and if he will make a statement. [296575]

Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Mr. Ivan Lewis: Since the Gaza conflict, officials and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he has received from nine countries (Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, of the members of the United Nations General Assembly Italy, Netherlands, Norway, the UK, and the US) have who (a) applauded and (b) protested against the speech met several times to discuss how to support action of the President of Iran in (i) 2008 and (ii) 2009; and if against arms smuggling. Officials met most recently in he will make a statement. [296557] Ottawa on 10-11 June 2009. However, the tools the international community has at its disposal are limited Mr. Ivan Lewis: The Government have consistently and the challenges of interdiction high. condemned the Iranian President’s inflammatory comments We continue to discuss all aspects of the situation in about the state of Israel and his repeated offensive Gaza—including arms smuggling and action to combat statements about the holocaust. We cannot ignore what it—with international partners. the leader of a significant country says during his speech at the UN General Assembly, and there was widespread Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for international criticism of President Ahmadinejad’s comments Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent at the UN General Assembly in 2008. reports he has received on the number of rocket attacks During his speech to the 2009 UN General Assembly, from Gaza aimed at southern Israel; and if he will President Ahmadinejad again made anti-Semitic assertions. make a statement. [296626] This immediately prompted UK officials to leave the room, alongside representatives from Australia; Argentina; Mr. Ivan Lewis: According to the Israeli Ministry of Costa Rica; Denmark; France; Germany; Hungary; Foreign Affairs there have been 122 rockets fired from Italy; New Zealand; Palau; Poland; Slovenia; Uruguay; Gaza since Operation Cast Lead. The UK condemns all and the USA. The Canadian and Israeli delegations such attacks and continues to call on those responsible had left the room before the speech had started. to renounce violence. British officials did not make a note at the time of the countries whose representatives applauded the speech. Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign he has made of the allegations of war crimes made in and Commonwealth Affairs what steps at the United respect of each party to the recent conflict in Gaza; Nations he (a) has taken and (b) plans to take in and if he will make a statement. [296640] 507W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 508W

Mr. Ivan Lewis: There are allegations of serious concern We did not vote because we were in the middle of which cannot be ignored. Rocket attacks by Palestinian detailed discussions about three key issues: the establishment militants targeted at innocent civilians in southern Israel of an independent inquiry, access for humanitarian aid constitute a breach of international humanitarian law. to Gaza and how to restart the peace process. We were There are also serious allegations about Israeli conduct pursuing these at the highest level, between my right and we urge the Israeli Government to carry out full, hon. Friend the Prime Minister, President Sarkozy of credible and impartial investigations. France and Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel. The vote was called in the middle of those discussions and Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for we did not wish to compromise the detailed work on Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent those fundamental issues. assessment he has made of the likelihood of military action against Iran by (a) Israel and (b) other states in Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for the event of Iran making further progress towards the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent development of (i) long range missiles and (ii) nuclear representations he has made to the government of (a) weapons; and if he will make a statement. [296652] Iran and (b) Syria on their support for Hezbollah and Hamas; and if he will make a statement. [296627] Mr. Ivan Lewis: We regularly review and monitor a range of threats to security in the middle east. We are Mr. Ivan Lewis: We have made clear on a number of aware of speculation about military action against Iran. occasions to Iran, and will continue to do so, that we This underlines the urgency of finding a diplomatic have serious concerns about their ongoing support for solution to Iran’s nuclear programme and we are working Hezbollah and Hamas. Such support is unacceptable intensely with international partners to achieve this. and only serves to undermine regional security. With Syria, we raise regularly at ministerial and Middle East: Peace Negotiations senior official meetings that support for Hezbollah and Hamas is inconsistent with regional stability and peace. Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign I raised this during my visit in August 2009. The issue is and Commonwealth Affairs which members of his also raised frequently by our British ambassador to Department attended the meeting of the United Nations Syria in the course of his meetings with Syrian Ministers Human Rights Council to (a) discuss and (b) vote on and officials, most recently on 27 October 2009. the report of the UN Fact-Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict; and if he will make a statement. [296572] Middle East: Water

Mr. Ivan Lewis: The UK was represented by our Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Permanent Representative to the United Nations in and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports he has Geneva, Mr. Peter Gooderham. received on proposals to share water supplies from the River Jordan; and if he will make a statement. [296629] Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he has received Mr. Ivan Lewis: We have not received any recent of progress in bringing Fatah and Hamas together to reports on proposals to share water supplies in Jordan. create a unified Palestinian negotiating position; and if he will make a statement. [296617] Monitor Group: Meetings

Mr. Ivan Lewis: My right hon. Friend the Foreign Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for Secretary spoke to the Egyptian Foreign Minister, Ahmed Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether Ministers Aboul Gheit, on 16 October 2009. We understand, or officials in his Department have had (a) meetings, despite Fatah agreeing to Egypt’s proposals, Hamas has (b) communications and (c) other contacts with the not. The Foreign Minister stated that the original deadline Monitor Group in the last five years. [295113] and further repeated deadlines for reaching agreement among the Palestinian factions will not be met. Chris Bryant: This information is not held centrally The UK continues to favour any reconciliation which and to provide it would incur disproportionate cost. supports peace negotiations and enhances efforts to improve governance, security and the economy in the Occupied Territories: Housing Occupied Palestinian Territories. Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent and Commonwealth Affairs for what reasons the UK discussions he has had with the government of Israel did not vote in the UN Human Rights Council on the on the building of settlements in the West Bank; and if motion relating to the report of the UN Fact Finding he will make a statement. [296639] Mission on the Gaza Conflict; and if he will make a statement. [296619] Mr. Ivan Lewis: Settlements are illegal and an obstacle to peace. We raise the issue frequently with Israeli Mr. Ivan Lewis: We have made absolutely clear that Ministers. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has the Goldstone report raised very serious issues that we pressed the Israeli Prime Minister on this several times, wanted to see addressed. We also made clear that the most recently in his joint letter of 16 October 2009 with resolution did not adequately address Hamas’ actions French President Sarkozy. I also raised settlements with and Israel’s right to protect its citizens. my counterpart on 27 October 2009. 509W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 510W

Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign parties to show restraint, and refrain from provocative and Commonwealth Affairs what recent assessment he actions in order to prevent the situation escalating. The has made of progress in negotiations on the matter of EU presidency made this clear to both Israeli and Israeli settlement-building in the West Bank; and if he Palestinian authorities on 26 October 2009. will make a statement. [296641] Turkey: Israel Mr. Ivan Lewis: We are extremely concerned by ongoing settlement activity both in the west bank and east Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for Jerusalem, including the Israeli Government’s approval Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment in September of new tenders for settlement projects. he has made of the implications for UK policy of the We wholeheartedly support the US effort to restart state of relations between Turkey and Israel; and if he peace talks. Settlements are illegal and an obstacle to will make a statement. [296616] peace. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has pressed the Israeli Prime Minister on this several times, Mr. Ivan Lewis: Relations between Israel and Turkey most recently in his joint letter of 16 October 2009 with are primarily a matter for those two countries. We work French President Sarkozy. However, it will be for the closely with both on a wide range of issues and will US to announce what they have agreed with the parties. continue to do so. In particular, achieving a comprehensive peace in the Middle East remains one of UK’s top Russia: Foreign Relations priorities and both Israel and Turkey have key roles to play in achieving this. Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Yvonne Fletcher Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he next expects to meet his Russian counterpart to discuss Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for UK-Russian relations and global issues. [296497] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many Metropolitan Police officers are working on the investigation Chris Bryant: My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary into the murder of WPC Yvonne Fletcher. [294130] is travelling to Moscow on 1 November 2009. As part of Mr. Hanson: I have been asked to reply. his visit, he will meet Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov for talks on 2 November 2009. The investigation into the murder of WPC Yvonne Fletcher has always remained open and the Metropolitan Sri Lanka: Human Rights Police Service (MPS) remains committed to identifying those people responsible for murdering WPC Fletcher Lynne Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for by deploying the resources necessary to pursue the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps the investigation. Detectives from the MPS inquiry team Government plan to take in response to the EU report have visited Libya several times and met officials from on Sri Lanka’s human rights record. [295476] the Libyan investigation team. The MPS remains ready to deploy officers to return to Libya in the future so that Mr. Thomas: I have been asked to reply. they can progress the inquiry further. As stated in the joint Foreign and Commonwealth Office/Department for International Development statement HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION of 20 October, the European Commission’s report on Sri Lanka’s implementation of international human Copyright rights conventions raises serious concerns, which we Jo Swinson: To ask the hon. Member for North share. We are continuing at every opportunity to strongly Devon, representing the House of Commons Commission urge the Government of Sri Lanka to take immediate if the House of Commons Commission will (a) place action to address the issues outlined in this report. in the Library and (b) publish on the parliamentary The report is a precursor to the Commission’s website a copy of the Review of the Management of recommendation to EU member states on whether Sri Parliamentary Copyright dated July 2009. [296496] Lanka should continue to benefit from the GSP+ trade preference scheme. Weexpect to receive this recommendation Nick Harvey: This internal paper has been prepared by the end of the year and, once such a recommendation for the Printing and Publishing Management Group of is presented, we will assess it on its merits. We are clear officials (PPMG) which advises on parliamentary copyright. that in order to retain its GSP+ preferences Sri Lanka It has not yet been considered by that group and so will must respect its international human rights obligations not be published for the time being. However, I will under GSP+. ensure that the hon. Member is kept up to date with developments. Temple Mount Lighting Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Hayes: To ask the hon. Member for North Devon, Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he representing the House of Commons Commission what has received on recent incidents of disorder on the estimate the Department of Facilities has made of the Temple Mount, Jerusalem. [296628] cost of compliance with legislation on incandescent light bulbs; and how many such light bulbs are installed Mr. Ivan Lewis: We are extremely concerned by recent in (a) the Chamber, (b) the Press Gallery, (c) areas disturbances on the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif. open to the public and (d) elsewhere on the part of the Our Consulate General in Jerusalem is monitoring the Parliamentary Estate for which the House of Commons situation on the ground extremely closely. We call on all Commission has responsibility. [296123] 511W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 512W

Nick Harvey: Incandescent lighting on the parliamentary Prisons: Complaints estate has been gradually replaced with lower energy lighting over the last five years, mostly during routine Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for lamp changes. Therefore, the only cost of compliance Northern Ireland how many complaints the Independent has been the cost of the bulbs themselves which is offset Monitoring Board for Prisons in Northern Ireland has by their increased life and will begin to produce savings received in each year since its inception; how many such within 500 hours of use. Due to the size and complexity complaints were (a) upheld and (b) dismissed; and of of the estate, detailed records of light bulbs are not those dismissed, for what reasons they were dismissed. kept, but virtually no incandescent lighting remains [295794] within areas (a) the Chamber and (b) the Press Gallery. In (c), areas open to the public, the vast majority of Paul Goggins: It is not possible to quantify the number incandescent light bulbs have been replaced over the of complaints in any one year as many complaints are last 12 months with halogen lamps which consume raised and dealt with on the day of members’ rota visits some 30 per cent. less power. On (d), the remainder of and not always recorded. Complaints and requests dealt the Commons part of the estate, the only incandescent with by IMB are not subject to a formal resolution light fittings that the House has been unable to replace process but rather are addressed through local discussion are those using small bayonet caps as these are not with the relevant governor and consequently not formally currently available. LED lighting is also currently being recorded as being upheld or dismissed. evaluated in several locations and low energy induction lighting is used widely such as in the Chamber and Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for courtyards. Northern Ireland how many prison officers have been Members’ Staff given the right of reply by the Independent Monitoring Board for Prisons (IMB) in Northern Ireland to a complaint made about them in each year since the Mike Penning: To ask the hon. Member for North IMB’s inception. [295795] Devon, representing the House of Commons Commission what the cost to the public purse was of the production Paul Goggins: The IMB has no jurisdiction to investigate of the House of Commons Commission’s Report on complaints about prison staff. Where such a complaint Employment of Members’ staff by the House, HC 1059 is raised with the IMB, it would be immediately forwarded of session 2008-09. [296837] to the Prison Service for investigation. Nick Harvey: The cost to the public purse was £1,615.10 excluding staff time. Portcullis House: Energy CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Departmental Postal Services Gregory Barker: To ask the hon. Member for North Devon, representing the House of Commons Mr. Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for Commission when the energy performance certificate Culture, Media and Sport which companies are under for Portcullis House was last updated; what the most contract to his Department to provide mail services; recent measurement of the energy performance of and when each such contract expires. [296077] Portcullis House was; and if he will make a statement. [296212] Mr. Simon: Pitney Bowes Managed Services provide the mail room services for the Department. This contract Nick Harvey: The current display energy certificate is now due to expire in January 2010. for Portcullis House dates from October 2008. In line with the regulations, the energy rating of the building is Departmental Public Expenditure currently undergoing annual reassessment and the replacement certificate is expected to be available for Mr. Todd: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, display in November 2009. Media and Sport what steps his Department is taking Early indications show that the energy rating for to implement the efficiency recommendations of the Portcullis House has improved; from a rating of 203 in Operational Efficiency programme relating to his 2008 to 192 in 2009. Department; and what training is available to (a) Ministers and (b) officials in his Department in respect of the delivery of value for money savings. [296060]

NORTHERN IRELAND Mr. Simon: In the light of the recommendations in Northern Ireland Independent Monitoring Board the Operational Efficiency programme report, published on 21 April 2009, the Department is taking forward a number of strands of work to achieve greater efficiency Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for across all its operations and arm’s length bodies, including: Northern Ireland what the operational cost of the Independent Monitoring Board for Prisons in Northern 1. My appointment as the VFM Minister; Ireland has been in each year since its inception. [295796] 2. Benchmarking of back-office functions within sponsored bodies with over 250 staff; Paul Goggins: This information is not available prior 3. Mapping and reviewing the current IT provision; to financial year 2009-10. The total cost from 1 April 4. Securing collaborative procurement; and 2009 for the year to date is £87,551.45. 5. Developing an estates strategy. 513W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 514W

Formal training is available to both Ministers and Launch of Street Games Department officials should they identify a business need Manchester Velodrome for it. Further to this, best practice is shared between Contact Theatre - Manchester officials, for example through networking events organised Visit to Moss Side Millennium Powerhouse Library by HM Treasury and the National Audit Office. Find Your Talent project in Liverpool Departmental Responsibilities PL4Sport project in Liverpool RTS convention in Cambridge Mr. Don Foster: To ask the Secretary of State for National Football Museum - Hall of Fame Award Dinner Culture, Media and Sport what (a) meetings he has had London Fashion week - Carolyn Massey show with representatives of (i) his Department’s sponsored Visit to the BRIT school bodies and (ii) outside organisations or individuals and Tristan und Isolde - Royal Opera House (b) events he has attended in his capacity as Secretary of Man Booker Prize awards 2009-10-26 State since June 2009. [296049] 2009 PM’s Better Public Building Award and British Construction Mr. Bradshaw: The meetings that I have had with Industry awards representatives of (i) his Department’s sponsored bodies Othello project in Birmingham and (ii) outside organisations or individuals are detailed School Sports Partnership conference on the DCMS website Electric Proms www.culture.gov.uk The Turn of the Screw - ENO http://www.culture.gov.uk The events I have attended in his capacity as Secretary Football Foundation: Finance of State since June 2009 are as follows: Richard Long exhibition, Tate Britain Hugh Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what progress his Department AEGON Tennis Championships has made in the forthcoming round of Football Foundation Art Prize Fund for Museums and Galleries funding allocation; and if he will make a statement. UK Music reception [296542] Darwin Centre Launch Wimbledon Championships Mr. Sutcliffe: Both the Government and Sport England Launch of National School Sport week remain completely committed to the ongoing work of Tate Britain summer reception the Football Foundation and continuing to invest £15 Visit to the Artist rooms and Oil Tank exhibition, Tate Modern million a year. Rock the Boat However, any funding decisions beyond 2011 will be Serpentine Gallery Pavilion subject to the next comprehensive spending review. Barber of Seville - Royal Opera House The 2009-10 funding agreement between Sport England and the Football Foundation for this year’s £15 million Jerusalem - Royal Court investment has been agreed. England -v- Australia test match Latitude festival Sport England Special event to celebrate the first quarter of ANLO figures with ACE at Royal Court Hugh Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Visit to Celtic Manor resort in Newport Culture, Media and Sport for which public bodies the Opening of Corby swimming pool sports division of his Department is responsible; which Royal and Demgate Theatre in Northampton individuals his Department has appointed to each such Hamlet - Wyndhams theatre body; and what the duration of appointment of each is. Bayreuth festival in Germany [296541] British Council - UK Young Creative Entrepreneur awards Glyndebourne Mr. Sutcliffe: The Sport Team within the Department is responsible for the Football Licensing Authority, Tour of Torre Abbey and Anthony Gormley exhibition in Sport England and UK Sport. The tables set out the Torquay individuals appointed to these bodies by Ministers, as Exeter -v- QPR regulated by the Commissioner for Public Appointments. Modern Pentathlon Championships In addition, the Department is in the process of establishing Bigga Fish UK Anti-Doping as the UK’s independent national British Youth Opera performance anti-doping organisation.

Football Licensing Authority Name Role Start date End date Terms

Paul Darling Chair April 2009 September 2011 1 Brendon Batson MBE Member January 2007 January 2010 1 John Woodrow Member June 2004 May 2010 2 Julie Summerell Member January 2007 January 2010 1 James Dickie Member January 2007 January 2010 1 515W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 516W

Football Licensing Authority Name Role Start date End date Terms

Dr. Pauleen Lane CBE Member July 2009 July 2012 1 Ronald Wilkie Member July 2009 July 2012 1 Peter Rowley Member July 2009 July 2012 1 Derek Wilson Member July 2009 July 2012 1

Sport England Name Role Start date End date Terms

Richard Lewis Chair April 2009 March 2013 1 Dr. Jack Rowell OBE Member January 2006 December 2009 2 Karren Brady Member March 2005 March 2010 2 Jill Ainscough Member April 2007 April 2010 1 Martin Thomas Member April 2007 April 2010 1 Philip Lemanski Member April 2007 April 2010 1 James Stewart Member April 2007 April 2010 1 Mich Stevenson OBE Member April 2007 April 2010 1 Michael Farrar CBE Member March 2005 March 2012 2

UK Sport Name Role Start date End date Terms

Baroness Campbell CBE Chair March 2005 March 2013 2 Philip Carling Member Wales February 2004 January 2010 2 Louise Martin CBE Member Scotland June 2008 June 2011 1 Rodney Carr OBE Member September 2005 September 2011 2 Christopher Holmes MBE Member September 2005 September 2011 2 Jonathan Vickers Member October 2008 October 2011 1 Dominic Walsh Member Northern March 2008 March 2012 2 Ireland Nigel Walker MBA DL Member July 2006 July 2012 2 Philip Kimberley Member March 2009 March 2012 1 Richard Lewis Member May 2009 May 2012 1

UK Anti-Doping programme called ‘yoURsport’. This is being implemented Name Role Start date End date Terms by the 450 school sport partnerships and is targeted at less sporty pupils to encourage them to participate in David Chair July 2009 February 1 Kenworthy 2013 competitive sporting activity. The programme’s objectives are to increase participation in intra-school competition The recruitment of UK Anti-Doping board members for all young people aged 11 to 16, by providing a is currently ongoing. competitive experience which is appealing and accessible. The programme also provides opportunities for young Sports: Schools leaders to deploy their leadership skills in organising, staging and officiating intra-school competition for their Mr. Jenkins: To ask the Secretary of State for peers. Culture, Media and Sport what steps his Department is taking to encourage school students to participate in competitive sport. [296819] Young Offenders: Princes Trust Mr. Sutcliffe: Competition is an integral part of the PE and Sport Strategy for Young People and the Mr. Rob Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for Government’s commitment to offer every child aged Culture, Media and Sport if he will provide funding to five to 16 the chance to do five hours of PE and sport the partnership of the Prince’s Trust and the Football per week, with three hours for 16 to 19-year-olds. Association football initiative in helping young adults Between 2008-11, Government are investing in young offender institutions. [296046] approximately £25.5 million into a new network of 225 Competition Managers (CMs), all of which have been Mr. Sutcliffe: The Princes’ Trust works with, and are recruited. The new network of CMs will provide better funded by the Premier League, Professional Footballer’s opportunities for young people to take part in competitive Association and the Football Foundation. The Football sport; and ensure that school-based opportunities are Association are currently not one of its partners. more integrated with national governing bodies’ competition The Government invest £15 million each year to the pathway priorities and club competitions. Their objective Football Foundation, the UK’s largest sports’ charity. is to increase the number of young people engaged in Funded by the Premier League, The Football Association regular high quality inter-school competitive events. and Government, the Foundation directs £40 million Government are also investing approximately £3 million every year into improving grass roots sport facilities to between 2008-11 into an intra-school competition help increase participation in football and other sports, 517W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 518W a key departmental priority, and address some of society’s (d) England: 1,022 key challenges, such as social inclusion, health, education (e) Outside UK: 17. and equalities. The ODA estimates that there is over £1 billion worth The Department has no current plans to provide of direct procurement to be completed. This may be in direct funding to this initiative. the form of new contracts or amendments to existing contracts. These direct procurements will generate thousands of business opportunities in the supply chains. The ODA is currently conducting research in its supply OLYMPICS chains with initial results due later this autumn, this will Domestic Christmas Trees show the names of companies across the UK that are already benefiting from 2012-related work. Mr. Hunt: To ask the Minister for the Olympics how Olympic Games 2012: Gun Sports much has been allocated for spending on (a) imported and (b) domestic Christmas trees for the main Jon Cruddas: To ask the Minister for the Olympics Olympic site in 2009. [293759] whether she has had discussions with the (a) Olympic Tessa Jowell [holding answer 16 October 2009]: None Delivery Authority and (b) Secretary of State for Defence of the ODA’s budget has been allocated to provide on safety arrangements for the Olympic and Paralympic Christmas trees for the Olympic Park. shooting event due to be held at the Royal Artillery Barracks in relation to (i) military personnel, (ii) the International Olympic Committee families of military personnel and (iii) the general public; and if she will make a statement. [294229] Mr. Don Foster: To ask the Minister for the Olympics how many officials from (a) her Office and (b) the Tessa Jowell: The Olympic Delivery Authority (ODA) Government Olympic Executive attended the International and the London Organising Committee of the Olympic Olympic Committee conference in October 2009; and at and Paralympic Games (LOCOG) have agreed plans what cost to the public purse. [295294] for hosting the 2012 Olympic and Paralympic shooting events at the Royal Artillery Barracks with the Ministry Tessa Jowell: No officials from my office or the of Defence. These plans will be submitted as part of the Government Olympic Executive attended the International planning application in the coming weeks. Safety is Olympic Committee congress in Copenhagen in October. paramount and has been at the forefront of discussions about the design for the venue. Olympic Games 2012: Barking and Dagenham Olympic Games 2012: Transport Jon Cruddas: To ask the Minister for the Olympics what discussions she has had with the Secretary of State Jon Cruddas: To ask the Minister for the Olympics for Communities and Local Government on the legacy what assessment she has made of the implications of of the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games the closure of a lane of the Blackwall Tunnel for the for the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham. purposes of Olympic Family transport services for the [294228] fulfilment of the Olympic commitment on transport during the London 2012 Olympics; and if she will Tessa Jowell: My officials consulted with CLG officials make a statement. [294233] on the legacy proposals for the London borough of Barking and Dagenham in advance of the Olympic Tessa Jowell: The Olympic Delivery Authority and Board making final decisions in respect of the venues Transport for London are working on the detailed for the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games. designs of the Olympic Route Network and will be consulting local residents and businesses over the coming Olympic Games 2012: Construction months. As part of this work, all the implications of potential road or lane closures will be assessed in detail. Pete Wishart: To ask the Minister for the Olympics This detailed design work will be completed next summer. how many Olympic construction contracts have been awarded to firms based (a) in Scotland, (b) in Wales, Olympic Games: China (c) in Northern Ireland, (d) in England and (e) elsewhere. [289486] Kate Hoey: To ask the Minister for the Olympics what expenditure the Olympic Delivery Authority Tessa Jowell: The Olympic Delivery Authority (ODA) incurred on (a) hospitality, (b) accommodation and is responsible for developing and building the venues (c) other expenses in relation to attendance at the and infrastructure for the London 2012 Games. To date Beijing Olympics. [289242] in total 1,063 businesses, including those involved in construction, have won £5 billion of work directly supplying Tessa Jowell: The Olympic Delivery Authority (ODA) the ODA and hundreds more have won work in the incurred the following costs in attending the Beijing supply chains. Olympic and Paralympic Observer Programme: The numbers of the ODA’s direct suppliers by nation (according to their registered address) are as follows: £ (a) Scotland: 17 (a) Flights 57,350.40 (b) Wales: 4 (b) Accommodation 24,358.44 (c) Northern Ireland: 3 519W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 520W

Barbara Follett: The Department for Communities £ and Local Government continues to monitor its capital (c) Other expenses 8,865.72 programmes to identify any potential underspends for Total 90,574.56 transfer to the £1.5 billion housing pledge announced in “Building Britain’s Future”. This paid for 33 ODA staff to take up places on the accredited observer programme. Disabled Facilities Grants Attendees obtained valuable information to inform, for example, the detailed design of the venues and the Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for management of the transport operations for which the Communities and Local Government how much ODA is responsible. Disabled Facilities Grant funding was (a) applied for and (b) received by each local authority in each year since 2001. [294094] COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Mr. Ian Austin: Details of the level of funding for the Community Development: Voluntary Organisations Disabled Facilities Grant which the local authorities in England applied for since 2001 is available through the Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Secretary of State for Housing Strategy Statistical Appendix and can be found Communities and Local Government how many grants on the Communities and Local Government website at: to voluntary groups Communitybuilders has made http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingresearch/ since January 2008. [293365] housingstatistics/housingstatisticsby/localauthorityhousing/ dataforms Barbara Follett: I refer the hon. Member to the Details of the level of Disabled Facilities Grant received answer I gave her on 14 October 2009, Official Report, by each local authority in 2001-02 have been placed in column 964W. the library of the House. Details of the level of Disabled Facilities Grant received by each local authority in Council Housing: Finance England since 2002-03 can also be found on the Communities and Local Government website at: Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what estimate he http://www.communities.gov.Uk/housing/ supportandadaptations/housingadaptations/ has made of the amount of housing debt in each local localauthoritydfgallocations authority. [292890] Mr. Ian Austin: The assumed Housing Debt, the Employment Agencies Subsidy Capital Financing Requirement, for each authority is calculated annually by my Department using data Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for supplied by the local authorities themselves on their Communities and Local Government how many agency HRA Subsidy base data forms. The information is staff were employed by (a) the Homes and Communities published, after consultation, in annual HRA Subsidy Agency, (b) the Tenant Services Authority, (c) the Determinations. The 2009-10 Determination is available National Housing and Planning Advice Unit, (d) the on the Communities and Local Government website at Homes and Communities Agency Academy and (e) his this address: Department in each of the last 12 months. [296606] http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/housing/ hrasubsidydeterminations0910 John Healey: The tables show the number of agency staff employed by (b) the Tenants Services Authority, Departmental Ministerial Policy Advisers (c) the National Housing and Planning Unit, (d) the Homes and Communities Agency Academy and (e) Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government in each of the last Communities and Local Government how many (a) 12 months. special and (b) policy advisers work for each Minister Figures for agency staff employed in each of the last in his Department. [295701] 12 months by (a) the Homes and Community Agency are not available other than at disproportionate cost. Barbara Follett: The Secretary of State is supported Details of the average number of temporary staff they by two special advisers, and the Minister of Housing have employed will be published shortly in their annual and Planning by one special adviser. All civil servants in report and accounts. the Department provide policy advice to Ministers as necessary. Tables showing agency staff employed in the last 12 months from October 2008 to September 2009 Departmental Public Expenditure (a) Homes and Communities Agency Figures for agency staff employed in each of the last 12 months Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Secretary of State for by the Homes and Community Agency are not available other Communities and Local Government pursuant to the than at disproportionate cost. Details of the average number of answer to the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst temporary staff they have employed will be published shortly in of 21 July 2009, Official Report, column 1353W, on their annual report and accounts. public expenditure, from which of his Department’s (b) Tenants Services Authority capital programmes funds will be transferred as part of The TSA has provided figures for staff employed via a third the £340 million anticipated capital underspends transfer. party e.g. recruitment agency from 1 December to week ending [292984] 23 October. 521W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 522W

Barbara Follett: There are no current plans to introduce Number of agency staff tiered contribution rates in the firefighters’ pension December 2008 19 schemes. January 2009 19 February 2009 25 Government Office for the North West March 2009 23 April 2009 19 May 2009 19 Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities June 2009 18 and Local Government how many times the Regional July 2009 19 Director for Government office north west has visited [296365] August 2009 18 Chorley since her appointment. September 2009 16 October 2009 15 Ms Rosie Winterton: The Regional Director has visited Chorley once since her appointment in February 2008. (c) National Housing and Planning Unit This was on 4 September 2009 to meet with Lancashire Number of agency staff chief executives or their representatives. October 2008 2 November 2008 2 Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities December 2008 2 and Local Government how many overseas visits the January 2009 0 Regional Director for Government Office North West February 2009 0 has made since her appointment; and what the purpose March 2009 0 was of each of the visits. [296366] April 2009 0 May 2009 0 Ms Rosie Winterton: The Regional Director for GONW June 2009 0 has not made any overseas trips since her appointment July 2009 0 in February 2008. August 2009 0 September 2009 0 Government Office for the North West: Allowances

(d) Homes and Communities Agency Academy Number of agency staff Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how much the October 2008 n/a Regional Director of the Government north west office November 2008 n/a has claimed in travel and accommodation expenses in December 2008 1 each year since her appointment. [296387] January 2009 1 February 2009 1.8 Ms Rosie Winterton: The Regional Director of the March 2009 1.8 Government office for the north-west (GONW) is on April 2009 1.8 detached duty from the Department for Communities May 2009 1.8 and Local Government to GONW.In addition to travel June 2009 1.8 expenses in the region, she therefore claims for rental of July 2009 2 a one bedroom flat in central Manchester and return August 2009 2 train tickets (standard class) for trips between Manchester September 2009 2 and London most weekends. Details are in the following (e) Communities and Local Government table: Number of agency staff £ October 2008 155 Financial November 2008 155 year Financial December 2008 178 2007-08 year 2008-09 2009-101 January 2009 163 Business expenses2 February 2009 161 March 2009 161 Accommodation — 207.02 555.41 April 2009 162 Travel 118.50 15,533.40 4,517.08 May 2009 160 Total 118.50 15,740.42 5,072.49 June 2009 156 July 2009 153 Detached duty3 August 2009 138 Accommodation— — 10,760.00 5,950.00 September 2009 116 Rent Accommodation— — 3,045.94 1,333.28 Other Fire Services: Pensions Travel — 4,811.69 1,950.62 Total 0 18,617.63 9,233.90 Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for 1Year to date: April to September. 2 Communities and Local Government whether he plans Mainly in the north west region. This also includes frequent meetings in London, for example in connection with national roles on social to amend the Firefighters Pension Scheme entitlements exclusion and cohesion or Government Office Network business. in respect of high earners who are members of the 3 Detached duty is a period of service at a new, temporary work place scheme. [295787] other than on permanent transfer. 523W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 524W

Local Government: Chorley transitional arrangements for the non-domestic rating revaluation consultation paper published on 8 July 2009 Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities at: and Local Government what average time was taken by http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/ Chorley borough council to pay invoices to their private localgovernment/nndrrevaluation2010 business suppliers in each of the last 12 months. [296384] Planning Obligations: Chorley

Ms Rosie Winterton: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave him on 7 July 2009, Official Report, Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for column 710W. Communities and Local Government if he will publish all correspondence between the Government Office Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities North West and Chorley Borough Council on section and Local Government how many meetings the Regional 106 monies for Chorley in the last 12 months. [296385] Director of the Government Office North West has had with the (a) Chief Executive and (b) other officers of Mr. Ian Austin: At the request of my hon. Friend, Chorley Borough Council in the last 12 months. Government office for the north-west sought information [296386] from Chorley borough council on Section 106 agreements and arranged a meeting on 30 July 2009 with him to Ms Rosie Winterton: The information is as follows: discuss these. Details of all Section 106 monies were (a) None provided to my hon. Friend at this meeting. Subsequently Government office for the north-west sent a follow up (b) None—however Chorley officials have been in larger regional or sub-regional meetings with the Regional Director. e-mail to my hon. Friend and Chorley borough council clearing the matters arising from the meeting. The Local Government: Pensions correspondence relating to Section 106 issues will be placed in the Library of the House. Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what plans he has Regional Planning and Development to limit the pensions of members of the Local Government Pension Scheme who earn high salaries; what limits he intends to put in place; what estimate he has made of Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for the effect on the Exchequer of introducing such limits Communities and Local Government if he will place in in each of the next 10 years; and what estimate he has the Library a copy of the current Regional Business made of the (a) costs to and (b) savings for local Plan agreed between his Department and each regional government pension scheme funds in each of the next assembly or successor body. [295652] 10 years. [295678] Mr. Ian Austin: Current Regional Business Plans are Barbara Follett: The benefit provisions of the Local already publicly available on the website of the relevant Government Pension Scheme are kept under regular Regional Assembly or successor body. review to ensure their affordability and fairness. Changes to the pension entitlements of any members, as set out Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for in the scheme’s regulatory framework, will be subject to Communities and Local Government when the mini- statutory consultation in the usual way. The next actuarial review of each regional spatial strategy was completed; valuation exercise takes place as at 31 March 2010. It and if he will place in the Library a copy of the report will set future employer contribution rates with effect of each such review. [296607] from 1 April 2011. Non-Domestic Rates: Greater London Mr. Ian Austin: To date six regions have finalised RSS revisions which were published on the following dates: Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what estimate his Region Department has made of the average liability of businesses 12 May 2008 East of England in London for business rates before the application of 21 May 2008 Yorkshire and Humber transitional relief in (a) 2009-10 and (b) 2010-11. 15 July 2008 North East [293159] 30 September2008 North West 12 March 2009 East Midlands Barbara Follett: Estimates of the average liability of 6 April 2009 South East properties in London in 2009-10 and 2010-11 are respectively £20,600 and £22,600 (values rounded to the The West Midlands is taking a phased approach to nearest hundred pounds). For 2010-11, the estimate is the revision of its RSS: before transitional arrangements, inflation and other reliefs. For 2009-10, the estimate is before transitional Phase 1 covering the Black Country was finalised on 15 January 2008. arrangements and other reliefs but after inflation. Phase 2 which covers wider housing issues among other things Estimates of the total number of properties and their has been through an Examination in Public and the Secretary of total liability for business rates broken down by region, State is currently considering the panel’s report published in for financial years 2009-10 and 2010-11, i.e. before and September. We expect to consult on any proposed changes in the after revaluation, have been published in table 1 of the new year and publish the final plan later in 2010. 525W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 526W

The South West RSS was due to be finalised last Joan Ruddock: The Low Carbon Communities Challenge summer. However in the light of a legal judgment on is a two-year programme to provide financial and sustainability appraisal we have agreed to do some further advisory support to 20 ‘test-bed’ communities in England, work and consultation and aim to publish it in 2010. Wales and Northern Ireland that are seeking to cut Retail Trade: Planning Permission carbon emissions. It does not cover communities in Scotland. Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Applications for the Challenge will be received by for Communities and Local Government if he will take 27 November for phase 1 applicants (applying for funding steps to promote retail diversity through the planning in 2009-10), and 30 December for phase 2 applicants system. [296342] (applying for funding in 2010-11). The final decision on the selection of communities will be made in January Mr. Ian Austin: Our draft Planning Policy Statement 2010. Phase 1 applicants will be notified at this point on 4: Planning for Prosperous Communities (PPS4) requires the allocation of funding. Phase 2 applicants will be local planning authorities to take steps to protect and allocated funding during the financial year as they work where appropriate enhance consumer choice and diversity up their spending plans. in their town centres. We anticipate that Government will put in place a We will be publishing the final PPS4 by the end of the number of evaluation mechanisms. In doing so, we will year. Local authorities must take the PPS into account engage closely with the selected communities so that the when preparing their local development frameworks data are openly shared and so that the communities and it may be material to decision on individual applications have the tools and opportunities to be active participants and appeals. in the learning. The programme is likely to include: Shared Ownership Schemes Gathering hard data on energy use Grant Shapps: Toask the Secretary of State for Communities Real time monitoring of energy use in selected households in and Local Government what assessment he has made of the communities the outcomes of each of the projects undertaken on the Household surveys for gathering data on broader socio-economic basis of a successful bid in the shared equity competition and environmental behaviours his Department announced in Budget 2007. [296609] Facilitated events in each of the 20 communities. John Healey: MyChoice HomeBuy and Ownhome were the shared equity loan providers appointed by the Climate Change Homes and Communities Agency following the Budget 2007 announcement. Both have contributed successfully Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for to the National Affordable Housing Programme, helping Energy and Climate Change how many scientists and 3,926 and 799 households respectively into home ownership academics who disagree with the theory of man-made in 2008-09. Information on households assisted into climate change he has met in a ministerial capacity in low cost home ownership in 2009-10 will be released by the last 12 months. [292449] the Homes and Communities Agency in due course. Joan Ruddock: My right hon. Friend the Secretary of WOMEN AND EQUALITY State has not met climate sceptic scientists and academics in the last 12 months. However, the overwhelming consensus Equality and Human Rights Commission: Manpower among climate scientists is that the case for human caused climate change that we are experiencing is John McDonnell: To ask the Minister for Women and unequivocal. This is the clear conclusion of the International Equality pursuant to the answer of 19 October 2009, Panel for Climate Change Fourth Assessment Report Official Report, column 1289W,on the Equality and Human published in 2007. Rights Commission: manpower, how much of the interim staff costs are attributable to consultancy fees in (a) 2007-08, (b) 2008-09 and (c) 2009-10. [296381] Climate Change: Conferences Maria Eagle: None. The costs only relate to interim and agency staff who were employed by the Commission Lembit Öpik: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy to support the delivery of its strategic priorities. Consultancy and Climate Change what steps his Department is expenditure is recorded separately. taking regarding sustainable alternatives for energy production in preparation for the forthcoming Copenhagen climate change conference. [296979] ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE Carbon Emissions: Government Assistance Joan Ruddock: Energy production contributes the largest proportion of the world’s greenhouse gas emissions. Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Working with EU partners, the Government are pushing Energy and Climate Change what applications have for an ambitious, effective and fair agreement in been received from (a) Wales, (b) England and (c) Copenhagen that will drive the development and Scotland for support from the Low Carbon Communities diffusion of sustainable forms of energy production. In Challenge Fund; when he expects decisions to be taken this context, the UK’s low carbon transition plan represents on the distribution of resources from the fund; and what a clear demonstration to other countries that we are evaluation mechanisms are in place to ensure optimisation serious about reducing emissions from our own energy of sustainability in successful bids. [296999] production. 527W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 528W

Consolidated Contractors Corporation 15 and (c) 16 to 17 year olds were (i) cautioned and (ii) prosecuted for alcohol-related offences in each police David Davis: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy force area in each of the last five years. [294181] and Climate Change what (a) meetings, (b) communications and (c) other contacts Ministers and Alan Johnson: Information showing the number of officials in his Department have had with the Consolidated offenders cautioned and defendants proceeded against Contractors Corporation (CCC Group) and its at magistrates courts for alcohol-related offences in international offshoots in the last five years. [294380] England and Wales from 2003 to 2007 (latest available) broken down by age and police force area, can be Joan Ruddock [holding answer 20 October 2009]: viewed in Tables 1,2 and 3 placed in the House Library. The Department for Energy and Climate Change has of Data for 2008 are planned for publication at the end of course only been in existence for just over a year. We have January 2010. no records within DECC of any contact with this group. A penalty notice for disorder (PND) may also be Wind Power: Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty issued for certain alcohol-related offences. The number of PNDs issued for alcohol-related offences from 2004 Mr. Heathcoat-Amory: To ask the Secretary of State to 2007 were introduced to all police force areas in 2004. for Energy and Climate Change in how many Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty there are planning Alcoholic Drinks: Public Places applications for (a) wind farms and (b) related electricity cables. [296323] Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many (a) anti-social behaviour Mr. Kidney: There are currently seven planning orders, (b) penalty notices for disorder and (c) police applications for (a) wind farms in Areas of Outstanding cautions have been issued for on-street drinking in (i) Natural Beauty (AONB) in England and Northern North Yorkshire, (ii) Yorkshire and the Humber and Ireland. There are no current planning applications (iii) England in each year since 1997. [295748] relating to AONBs in Wales. There are no Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty in Scotland. Mr. Alan Campbell: Information showing the number I can confirm that the Department has received no of offenders cautioned for on-street drinking offences applications for (b) overhead line works associated in the North Yorkshire Police Force area, the Yorkshire with wind farm developments of 50 megawatts (MW) and Humberside region and England from 1997 to 2007 and above in AONBs in England and Wales. There are (latest available) can be viewed in Table 1. also no applications affecting AONBs in Northern Ireland. Information showing the number of Penalty Notices Applications for electricity cables related to wind for Disorder (PNDs) issued in the North Yorkshire farms of less than 50 megawatts (MW) in England and Police Force area, the Yorkshire and Humberside region Wales would be considered by the relevant local planning and England from 2004 to 2007 (latest available) can be authority and DECC does not maintain information on viewed in Table 2. The PND scheme was rolled out to such applications. all Police Forces during 2004. Data on the number of ASBOs issued held by the Office for Criminal Justice Reform does not include HOME DEPARTMENT information detailing the specific nature of the antisocial Alcoholic Drinks: Crime behaviour which resulted in the court issuing the ASBO. This could be determined only by examining individual Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for the court files which could be achieved only at disproportionate Home Department how many (a) 10 to 12, (b) 13 to cost.

Number of offenders cautioned1 for on-street drinking2 in North Yorkshire Police Force Area, Yorkshire and Humberside region3 and England, 1997 to 20074, 5 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007

140/01 North 26 25 51 99 191 204 268 111 87 119 70 Yorkshire Police Force Area 141/01 Yorkshire and 1,592 1,866 1,990 1,992 1,890 1,854 2,220 1,314 642 991 982 Humberside Region3 140/11 England 23,253 20,882 18,489 16,599 15,351 15,014 16,977 12,358 7,497 4,916 5,095

1 From 1 June 2000 the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 came into force nationally and removed the use of cautions for persons under 18 and replaced them with reprimands and warnings. These figures have been included in the totals. 2 Includes the following offences and statutes: Being found drunk in a highway or other public place, whether a building or not, or on licensed premises—Licensing Act 1872, section 12. Being guilty while drunk of disorderly behaviour—Criminal Justice Act 1967, section 91. Offences relating to the Police Reform Act 2002 Sch.4 Para.5 (Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 S.12). Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 S12. 3 Covers the following Police Force Areas: North Yorkshire, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire and Humberside. 4 The cautions statistics relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been cautioned for two or more offences at the same time the principal offence is the more serious offence. 5 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. Source: Evidence and Analysis Unit—Office for Criminal Justice Reform. 529W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 530W

Number of Penalty Notices for Disorder issued to persons aged 16 and Antisocial Behaviour Orders: Staffordshire over for on-street drinking1 in North Yorkshire Police Force Area, Yorkshire and Humberside region2 and England, 2004 to 20073, 4 2004 2005 2006 2007 Mr. Jenkins: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many acceptable behaviour North Yorkshire 480 810 1,024 1,113 contracts have been made in (a) Staffordshire and (b) Police Force Area Tamworth constituency in each of the last five years. Yorkshire and 3,722 5,835 8,392 7,578 [296108] Humberside Region1 Mr. Alan Campbell: The number of acceptable behaviour England5 28,455 38,499 43,842 47,591 contracts (ABCs) is collected by the Home Office through 1 Includes the following offences and statutes: Being found drunk in a highway or other public place, whether a a voluntary survey of Crime and Disorder Reduction building or not, or on licensed premises—Licensing Act 1872, Partnerships (CDRPs) use of antisocial behaviour tools section 12. and powers. The latest published data indicate that at Being guilty while drunk of disorderly behaviour—Criminal Justice least 450 ABCs were made in Staffordshire between Act 1967, section 91. October 2003 and September 2008, of which 75 were Offences relating to the Police Reform Act 2002 Sch.4 Para.5 (Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 S.12). Criminal Justice and issued in Tamworth during the same period. Police Act 2001 S12, Antisocial Behaviour Orders: Wales 2 Covers the following Police Force Areas: North Yorkshire, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire and Humberside. 3 The Penalty Notice for Disorder (PND) Scheme was implemented Jessica Morden: To ask the Secretary of State for the in all 43 police forces in England and Wales in 2004. Home Department how many anti-social behaviour 4 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are orders have been issued in (a) Wales and (b) Newport accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems East constituency since 1998. [295929] generated by police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations Mr. Alan Campbell: Antisocial behaviour orders (ASBOs) are taken into account when those data are used. became available from 1 April 1999. The latest available 5 Excludes British Transport Police. data on the number of ASBOs issued covers the period Source: Evidence and Analysis Unit—Office for Criminal Justice Reform. 1 April 1999 to 31 December 2007. These data are not available below Criminal Justice System (CJS) area Antisocial Behaviour level. Between 1 April 1999 and 31 December 2007, a total Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for the of 783 ASBOs were issued at all courts in Wales. Home Department how many reports of anti-social behaviour there have been in (a) North Yorkshire, (b) Antisocial Behaviour Orders: Young People Yorkshire and the Humber and (c) England in each year since 2003; and how many of those reported cases Dr. Kumar: To ask the Secretary of State for the have led to (i) the issuing of an anti-social behaviour Home Department how many anti-social behaviour order, (ii) a community sentence, (iii) a custodial orders have been issued to young people aged between sentence, (iv) a police caution and (v) any other form of 13 and 19 years old in (a) England, (b) the North East judicial sentencing. [295746] and (c) Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland constituency in each of the last five years. [296368] Mr. Alan Campbell: The information requested is not held centrally. Reports of antisocial behaviour are usually Mr. Alan Campbell: The number of antisocial behaviour reported to the police, local authority, landlord or other orders issued to young people (defined as being 10-17 frontline agency whose task it is to deal directly with years old at the date of appearance in court) at all that problem. Information on the use of all the antisocial courts in England, the North East region and Cleveland, behaviour tools and powers nationally is available on in each of the years during the period 2003-07 (latest the antisocial behaviour website: available) is shown in the following table. http://www.asb.homeoffice.gov.uk/uploadedFiles/ ASBO data are not available centrally below Criminal Members_site/Documents_and_images/Resources/CDRP.pdf Justice System (CJS) area level.

Number of antisocial behaviour orders (ASBOs) issued to juveniles1 at all courts in the Cleveland Criminal Justice System (CJS) area, the North East region and England, as reported to the Home Office by the Court Service, 1 January 2003 to 31 December 2007

Geographical area 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007

Cleveland 9 15 28 32 27

North East2 26 64 102 76 49

England 598 1,291 1,493 971 869

1 Juveniles are defined as being 10-17 years old at the date of appearance in court. 2 The north-east Government office region is comprised of the Cleveland, Durham and Northumbria Criminal Justice System areas. Notes: 1. Previously issued data have been revised. 2. Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the courts. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. 531W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 532W

Antisocial Behaviour: Norwich therefore, no checks were undertaken before then. In 2008, a total of 83 permanent members of staff and 180 Chloe Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for the contractors were checked through ‘Disclosure Scotland’. Home Department how many incidents of anti-social In 2009 (up to 16 October 2009), 1,001 permanent staff behaviour there were in (a) 2007, (b) 2008 and (c) and 2,060 contractors were checked. This information 2009 in Norwich North constituency. [296016] will probably include employees and contractors based in Scotland and Northern Ireland as our records are Mr. Alan Campbell: The information requested is not unable to differentiate between areas of the country for held centrally. this particular data. Incidents of antisocial behaviour are usually reported Additionally, this information relates to the core Home to the police, local authority, landlord or other frontline Office, UK Border Agency, Criminal Records Bureau agency whose task it is to deal directly with that problem. and the Identity and Passport Service. It does not include non-departmental government bodies which the Crime: Business Home Office may ‘sponsor’.

Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for the Detection Rates Home Department what eligibility criteria are used to assess applications for grants from the Small Retailers Grant Fund; and if he will make a statement. [296076] Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what the detection rate was for (a) Mr. Alan Campbell: The eligibility criteria for the all offences, (b) violence against the person, (c) sexual Small Retailers Capital Grants Fund are detailed in the offences, (d) robbery, (e) burglary, (f) drug offences Guidance Notes available on the grant administrator’s and (g) criminal damage in each of the last 10 years; website at: and what proportion of detections in each such case was recorded on the issuing of a (i) charge or summons, http://grantsadmin.co.uk/smallretailerscapitalfund/ (ii) caution, (iii) offence taken into consideration and Crime: Young People (iv) penalty notice for disorder. [294330]

Chloe Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for the Alan Johnson: The information requested is given in Home Department how many crimes were committed the table. by under 25 year olds in (a) 1997, (b) 2007 and (c) It should be noted that non-sanction detections that 2008 in Norwich North constituency. [296017] contribute to the percentage change in detection rates have fallen in recent years reflecting a significant shift Mr. Alan Campbell: The information requested is not by many police forces away from recording detections collected centrally. From the recorded crime statistics of crime where no further action is taken. For this collected by the Home Office it is not possible to reason overall detection rates over time are not fully identify the age of the alleged offender. comparable. Departmental Vetting From 1 April 2007 the rules governing recording of non-sanction detections were revised to reduce the scope Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for the within which they can be claimed to a very limited set of Home Department how many employees in his circumstance. In terms of offences detected by the Department and its agencies in England and Wales police, the preferred measure is now to use sanction were subject to basic disclosure checks undertaken by detections. Disclosure Scotland in each year since 2002. [294161] Detection rates are a ratio of crime detected in a period to crimes recorded in a period. They are not Alan Johnson: The ‘Disclosure Scotland’ checks were based on tracking whether individual crimes recorded introduced in the Home Office in November 2008; in period have eventually been detected.

Detection rates for selected offence groups in England and Wales Percentage of detections detected by: Offences taken Penalty Non-sanction Financial year Detection rate into notice for Cannabis detections and offence group (percentage)1 Charge/summons Caution consideration disorder warnings (percentage)

Total crime 2000-01 23 58 17 8 n/a n/a 18 2001-02 22 59 16 8 n/a n/a 17 2002-032,3 23 57 15 8 n/a n/a 20 2003-04 23 56 16 8 0 n/a 21 2004-05 26 50 18 7 1 2 22 2005-06 27 48 21 8 7 4 13 2006-07 27 47 24 8 9 6 6 2007-08 28 49 26 8 9 8 0 2008-09 28 52 24 8 8 8 0 533W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 534W

Detection rates for selected offence groups in England and Wales Percentage of detections detected by: Offences taken Penalty Non-sanction Financial year Detection rate into notice for Cannabis detections and offence group (percentage)1 Charge/summons Caution consideration disorder warnings (percentage)

Violence against the person 2000-01 57 55 14 0 n/a n/a 30 2001-02 56 58 14 0 n/a n/a 28 2002-032,3 54 53 13 0 n/a n/a 33 2003-04 50 51 14 0 1 n/a 34 2004-05 53 47 16 0 5 n/a 32 2005-06 54 46 22 0 11 n/a 21 2006-07 51 48 29 0 14 n/a 9 2007-08 49 53 33 0 14 n/a 0 2008-09 47 58 31 0 11 n/a 0

Sexual offences 2000-01 43 68 8 1 n/a n/a 23 2001-02 43 71 8 1 n/a n/a 20 2002-032,3 39 71 9 1 n/a n/a 19 2003-04 36 71 10 1 0 n/a 18 2004-05 34 71 11 1 0 n/a 17 2005-06 35 72 13 3 0 n/a 11 2006-07 32 75 16 1 0 n/a 7 2007-08 31 80 18 1 0 n/a 1 2008-09 32 82 17 1 0 n/a 1

Robbery 2000-01 17 80 4 5 n/a n/a 11 2001-02 16 82 3 6 n/a n/a 10 2002-032,3 19 83 2 5 n/a n/a 9 2003-04 19 84 3 5 0 n/a 8 2004-05 20 78 3 5 0 n/a 13 2005-06 18 86 4 5 0 n/a 5 2006-07 19 89 4 5 0 n/a 2 2007-08 20 91 4 5 0 n/a 0 2008-09 21 92 3 5 0 n/a 0

Burglary 2000-01 11 55 5 30 n/a n/a 10 2001-02 12 56 4 32 n/a n/a 9 2002-032,3 12 54 4 34 n/a n/a 8 2003-04 13 54 4 34 0 n/a 8 2004-05 13 51 6 35 0 n/a 9 2005-06 14 49 7 40 0 n/a 5 2006-07 14 47 8 43 0 n/a 3 2007-08 13 50 7 42 0 n/a 0 2008-09 13 50 6 44 0 n/a 0

Drug offences 2000-01 89 57 38 0 n/a n/a 6 2001-02 92 56 37 0 n/a n/a 7 2002-032,3 93 55 37 0 n/a n/a 8 2003-04 93 53 35 0 0 n/a 12 2004-05 95 41 36 0 0 20 3 2005-06 95 35 24 0 0 37 3 2006-07 95 32 22 0 0 44 2 2007-08 95 30 22 0 0 48 0 2008-094 95 32 21 0 0 46 0

Criminal damage 2000-01 13 51 20 3 n/a n/a 25 535W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 536W

Detection rates for selected offence groups in England and Wales Percentage of detections detected by: Offences taken Penalty Non-sanction Financial year Detection rate into notice for Cannabis detections and offence group (percentage)1 Charge/summons Caution consideration disorder warnings (percentage)

2001-02 12 52 21 3 n/a n/a 24 2002-032,3 13 51 19 2 n/a n/a 28 2003-04 13 49 21 3 0 n/a 28 2004-05 14 46 24 3 2 n/a 25 2005-06 15 44 28 4 8 n/a 17 2006-07 15 42 32 5 13 n/a 8 2007-08 14 45 37 5 13 n/a 0 2008-09 14 50 35 5 10 n/a 0 n/a = Not applicable. 1 In 2008-09 this includes a small number of Youth Restorative Disposals submitted to the Home Office as part of a pilot scheme and which are included in with non-sanction detections. 2 The National Crime Recording Standard was introduced on 1 April 2002. 3 Includes British Transport Police from 2002-03. 4 Since January 2009, PNDs can be given for cannabis possession. Up until the end of March 2009, PNDs were counted together with cannabis warnings.

Domestic Violence: Arrests operation of the Independent Safeguarding Authority in (i) total and (ii) by (A) staff, (B) information Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for the technology, (C) legal, (D) administrative and (E) other Home Department what targets for arrest rates for costs; and if he will make a statement. [294075] incidents of domestic violence have been set for police forces. [295758] Meg Hillier: The Home Office is responsible for the Mr. Alan Campbell: No targets are set for police implementation of the Vetting and Barring Scheme forces on arrest rates for incidents of domestic violence. (VBS), which includes the establishment and operation of the Independent Safeguarding Authority (ISA). However, Driving Offences: Mobile Phones the Department of Health and Department for Children, Schools and Families are the policy leads and provide Dr. Kumar: To ask the Secretary of State for the the funding for the scheme. Home Department how many deaths have been caused by dangerous driving due to the use of a mobile telephone The ISA was formally vested in January 2008 and in (a) England, (b) Teesside and (c) Middlesbrough began operational work in March 2008. The costs of South and East Cleveland constituency since 1997. establishing the ISA prior to vesting are £9.87 million. [296448] ISA expenditure for 2007-08 and for 2008-09 is set Mr. Alan Campbell: The information requested is not out in the following table. available centrally.While the Home Office collects statistics Establishment cost includes the development of interim on the number of recorded offences of causing death by IT, a proportionate cost of the full solution at March dangerous driving, no details are held on the individual 2009, and the cost of fitting out Stephenson House, the circumstances surrounding each offence. ISA head office. IT running cost represents the cost of Immobilisation of Vehicles supporting the interim solution. The expenditure figures do not include the costs of other bodies whose functions include, but are not exclusively, support for the Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for establishment, operation and monitoring of the ISA. the Home Department what recent discussions officials They do not include estimates of expenditure in the of his Department have had with the British Parking current year which are yet to be audited. Association on wheel clamping on private land. [295881] ISA costs £000 Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 28 October 2009]: 2007-08 2008-09 Officials of the Home Office and the Security Industry (a) Establishment 9,870 3,926 Authority (SIA) met with representatives of the British cost Parking Association (BPA) in April of this year. In addition, the SIA has met or been in contact with the (b) Running costs: BPA on a number of occasions about the emerging plans for regulation of the vehicle immobilisation industry. A) Staff 83 5,721 B) IT 0 284 Independent Safeguarding Authority: Finance C) Legal 0 142 D) Administrative 12 1,493 Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for the E) Other costs 63 845 Home Department how much his Department has 158 8,485 spent to date in (a) the establishment and (b) the 537W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 538W

Members: Correspondence Value of cash forfeiture orders and confiscation orders obtained by police forces in the East of England Value (£) Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he plans to reply to the 2004-05 Cash Forfeitures 23,321 letter dated 7 September 2009 from the right hon. Confiscation 131,661 Member for Manchester, Gorton concerning 2005-06 Cash Forfeitures 38,601 Ms Martina Palfrey. [294726] Confiscation 233,509 2006-07 Cash Forfeitures 79,556 Alan Johnson: I wrote to my right hon. Friend on 15 Confiscation 321,707 October 2009. 2007-08 Cash Forfeitures 197,833 Passports: Fraud Confiscation 1,002,192 2008-09 Cash Forfeitures 243,873 Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for the Confiscation 986,774 Home Department how many convictions for offences of fraud in relation to passports there were in (a) the Cambridgeshire UK, (b) the East of England region, (c) Essex and Constabulary (d) Castle Point constituency in each of the last 10 2003-04 Cash Forfeitures 0 years. [296072] Confiscation 278,675 2004-05 Cash Forfeitures 21,345 Meg Hillier [holding answer 27 October 2009]: The Confiscation 2,674,080 Identity and Passport Service did not separately record 2005-06 Cash Forfeitures 62,208 details on convictions for offences of fraud prior to the Confiscation 156,358 introduction of its Fraud Casework and Management 2006-07 Cash Forfeitures 100,524 Information system in April 2005. The number of Confiscation 863,759 convictions recorded by IPS from then onwards are as follows: 2007-08 Cash Forfeitures 106,883 Confiscation 1,345,645 Financial year Convictions 2008-09 Cash Forfeitures 26,801 Confiscation 1,022,851 2005-06 12 2006-07 55 Essex Police 2007-08 9 2008-09 6 2003-04 Cash Forfeitures 0 Confiscation 381,443 It is not possible to obtain any further breakdown by 2004-05 Cash Forfeitures 863,019 region or specific location. In those cases when IPS Confiscation 289,269 receives notification of a conviction from a court, or the 2005-06 Cash Forfeitures 790,484 police, the information provided states the name of the Confiscation 523,381 court only. 2006-07 Cash Forfeitures 662,259 Proceeds of Crime: East of England Confiscation 837,593 2007-08 Cash Forfeitures 426,874 Mr. Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Confiscation 339,581 Home Department what the value was of assets (a) 2008-09 Cash Forfeitures 260,768 seized and (b) frozen under the Proceeds of Crime Act Confiscation 907,359 2002 in each police force area in the East of England in each year since 2002. [296037] Hertfordshire Constabulary Mr. Alan Campbell: Information is not available in 2003-04 Cash Forfeitures 0 the form requested. The value of cash forfeiture orders Confiscation 929,368 and confiscation orders obtained by each police force in 2004-05 Cash Forfeitures 41,175 the eastern region from 2003-04 is set out in the table. Confiscation 246,432 The police can obtain forfeiture orders in the magistrates courts following the seizure of cash which they have 2005-06 Cash Forfeitures 22,711 reasonable grounds for suspecting is the proceeds of Confiscation 912,879 crime or intended for use in crime. Confiscation orders 2006-07 Cash Forfeitures 655,103 are made in the Crown court. The enforcement of Confiscation 558,882 confiscation orders is essentially a matter for HM Courts 2007-08 Cash Forfeitures 289,059 Service. Confiscation 2,765,352 Value of cash forfeiture orders and confiscation orders obtained by police forces 2008-09 Cash Forfeitures 241,348 in the East of England Confiscation 1,242,902 Value (£)

Bedfordshire Police Norfolk Constabulary 2003-04 Cash Forfeitures 0 2003-04 Cash Forfeitures 0 Confiscation 3,403,388 Confiscation 89,326 539W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 540W

Value of cash forfeiture orders and confiscation orders obtained by police forces Mr. Hanson: Data relating to the number convicted in the East of England under Terrorism Legislation since 2001 are contained in Value (£) the following Home Office Bulletin: Statistics on Terrorism 2004-05 Cash Forfeitures 59,735 Arrests and Outcomes Great Britain—11 September Confiscation 849,764 2001 to 31 March 2008. The number of individuals 2005-06 Cash Forfeitures 96,332 convicted under section 56 of the Terrorism Act 2000 is Confiscation 3,187,861 grouped together with those convicted under section 54 of that act. The bulletin shows that one person has been 2006-07 Cash Forfeitures 28,324 convicted under these sections of the legislation. Confiscation 241,939 Furthermore, seven people have been convicted of offences 2007-08 Cash Forfeitures 34,977 under section 59 of the Terrorism Act 2000. Confiscation 2,414,409 2008-09 Cash Forfeitures 17,197 Terrorism: Arrests Confiscation 758,807 Mr. Grieve: To ask the Secretary of State for the

Suffolk Constabulary Home Department how many people have been (a) arrested and (b) prosecuted for inciting terrorism 2003-04 Cash Forfeitures 0 overseas in each year since 2000. [296153] Confiscation 136,787 2004-05 Cash Forfeitures 45,980 Alan Johnson: Individuals suspected of terrorism offences Confiscation 320,374 are arrested under section 41 of the Terrorism Act 2000 2005-06 Cash Forfeitures 27,824 and not by specific offence. The Home Office does not Confiscation 638,468 hold specific data relating to the number of individuals 2006-07 Cash Forfeitures 11,435 arrested on suspicion of inciting acts of terrorism overseas. Confiscation 457,050 A total of 10 people have been charged with inciting acts of terrorism (under section 59 of the Terrorism Act 2007-08 Cash Forfeitures 134,263 2000) since 2001. The breakdown of these figures is as Confiscation 823,291 follows: 2008-09 Cash Forfeitures 144,841 in 2001-02 there were 0 charges; Confiscation 593,213 in 2002-03 there were 0 charges; in 2003-04 one person was charged; Telecommunications: Databases in 2004-05 there were 0 charges; in 2005-06 three people were charged; Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for the in 2006-07 one person was charged; and Home Department what estimate he has made of the in 2007-2008 five people were charged. proportion of communications covered by the current Data relating to the numbers arrested and charged interception of communications data procedures; and under Terrorism Legislation since 2001 are contained in what estimate he has made of the likely proportion of the following Home Office Bulletin ‘Statistics on Terrorism coverage in each of the next 10 years should the Arrests and Outcomes Great Britain—11 September Interception Modernisation Programme (a) go ahead 2001 to 31 March 2008’. and (b) not go ahead. [295824] Terrorism: Convictions Alan Johnson: I have written to the hon. Member with information relating to this answer. Mr. Grieve: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many people have been Terrorism convicted under Section 57(4)(a) of the Terrorism Act 2000 in each year since 2001; and what the sentence was in each case. [296152] Mr. Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many persons have been Alan Johnson: Section 57 (4) (a) relates to the penalty convicted of an offence under section 5 of the for offences under section 57. A total of 22 people have Terrorism Act 2006; and if he will make a statement. been convicted of offences under section 57 of the [296545] Terrorism Act 2000 since 2001. The breakdown of these figures is as follows: Mr. Hanson: Data relating to the number convicted in 2001-02 there were 0 convictions; under Terrorism Legislation since 2001 are contained in in 2002-03 five people were convicted; the following Home Office Bulletin: Statistics on Terrorism Arrests and Outcomes Great Britain—11 September in 2003-04 two people were convicted; 2001 to 31 March 2008. The bulletin shows that nine in 2004-05 one person was convicted; people have been convicted for offences under section 5 in 2005-06 five people were convicted; of the Terrorism Act 2006. in 2006-07 eight people were convicted; and in 2007-2008 one person was convicted. Mr. Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for the Data relating to the numbers convicted under Terrorism Home Department how many persons have been Legislation since 2001 are contained in the following convicted of an offence under section (a) 56 and (b) Home Office Bulletin ‘Statistics on Terrorism Arrests 59 of the Terrorism Act 2000. [296544] and Outcomes Great Britain—11 September 2001 to 541W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 542W

31 March 2008’. Data relating to sentencing for those Mr. Timms: We have recently set up the Network convicted under the Terrorism Act 2000 are not recorded Design and Procurement Company as we pledged to do in a way which shows the sentence passed for offences in the Digital Britain Report. The company will be under section 57. responsible for procuring the upgrade and replacement works to deliver the universal service commitment (USC) Mr. Grieve: To ask the Secretary of State for the for 2Mbps to virtually every community by 2012 and, in Home Department how many people have been due course, the administration of the Next Generation convicted under counter-terrorism legislation of Fund outlined in the Digital Britain White Paper. fundraising in each of the last five years. [296154] On take up of broadband and digital inclusion the Government have also appointed Martha Lane Fox as Mr. Hanson: A total of 10 people have been convicted our digital inclusion champion. Her role will be to find of fundraising offences (under sections 15-19 of the ways of helping people without previous experience of Terrorism Act 2000). The breakdown of these figures computers to develop the skills needed to make use of for the last five years is as follows: in 2003-04 there were the internet in order to take advantage of the benefits it 0 convictions; in 2004-05 there were 0 convictions; in offers. 2005-06 four people were convicted; in 2006-07 one person was convicted; and, in 2007-08 three people were Business Links: Sick Leave convicted. Data relating to the numbers arrested and charged under terrorism legislation since 2001 is contained in the Home Office Bulletin: Statistics on Terrorism Lorely Burt: To ask the Minister of State, Arrests and Outcomes Great Britain—11 September Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how 2001 to 31 March 2008. many staff of Business Link have taken time off work as a result of a diagnosis of stress in each of the last five years. [291969]

BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Ms Rosie Winterton: ‘Staff of Business Link’ encompasses people who are directly employed in the Apprentices: Birmingham provision of the Business Link service, by RDAs and their Business Link providers. ‘Time off work’ has been Richard Burden: To ask the Minister of State, defined as statutory-recorded sick leave. ‘Diagnosis of Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how stress’ has been defined as individuals self-certifying as many people in Birmingham, Northfield constituency having a stress related illness and individuals whose completed an apprenticeship in each year since 2004. doctors have signed them off from work with a diagnosis [296272] of stress. Comprehensive national data can only be provided Kevin Brennan: Apprenticeship Starts for 2003/04 to for the year 2008-09 when all RDAs had completed the 2007/08 were published in a statistical first release (SFR) re-contracting exercise to the current network of Business on 25 June: Link providers. To gather data before 2008/09 would http://www.thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/sfrjun09 incur disproportionate costs. The number of Business Link staff who have taken time off work as a result if a Supplementary table 5.1 shows apprenticeship starts diagnosis of stress in 2008/09 was 33. by constituency, local authority, Government office region and England for 2003/04 to 2007/08. Provisional full-year figures for 2008/09 were published in a statistical first Business: Government Assistance release on 22 October: http://www.thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/sfroct09 Miss McIntosh: To ask the Minister of State, Supplementary geographic breakdowns will be available Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what shortly after the main release. deadlines have been set for repayment of loans offered under the Enterprise Finance Guarantee scheme. Broadband [294586] Ms Rosie Winterton: Any facilities offered by lenders Miss McIntosh: To ask the Minister of State, and secured under the Enterprise Finance Guarantee Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what should be repaid within the terms agreed between the areas of (a) England and (b) North Yorkshire receive borrower and the lender up to but not exceeding the broadband over the BT network but cannot receive maximum period permitted for that particular loan digital subscriber line at a speed of at least 512kBits/s. facility. [291983] EFG supports bank lending to businesses with an Mr. Timms: The Department does not have this annual turnover of up to £25 million seeking loans of information. £1,000 through to £1 million, repayable over a period of between three months and 10 years. Broadband: Lancashire The overdraft borrowing guarantee top-up and the invoice finance guarantee top-up introduced on Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Minister of State, Department 30 September 2009 is limited to a maximum repayment for Business, Innovation and Skills what steps his term of two and three years respectively. Department is taking to increase access to broadband Accredited EFG lenders have the discretion to agree services in (a) Chorley and (b) Lancashire. [296750] capital repayment holidays where they deem appropriate. 543W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 544W

Miss McIntosh: To ask the Minister of State, The first stage of prioritisation was ‘readiness’ to Department for Business, Innovation and Skills on identify those projects sufficiently developed to be able what conditions loans are offered to businesses under to start work immediately in the autumn. the Enterprise Finance Guarantee scheme. [294587] Projects which passed through the readiness gateway were then assessed against the following prioritisation Ms Rosie Winterton: There are three main conditions criteria: for a business being offered an EFG loan application: Education and skills impact The business meeting the lender’s normal commercial criteria Contribution to local economic and regeneration priorities in relation to the viability of the business and serviceability of the loan. This judgment will vary according to the lender concerned. Co-dependency with third parties The lender determining that use of EFG, rather than a normal Condition of estate commercial loan, is necessary because of no or insufficient security Value for money. available on the part of the business. The LSC has published on its website full details of The business meeting the basic EFG eligibility criteria. the Lambert Smith Hampton readiness report and the Each lender has access to the EFG web portal through results of the PricewaterhouseCoopers prioritisation which they administer the EFG eligibility criteria. The exercise. It can be found at: main EFG eligibility criteria, with respect to the size of http://propertyservices.lsc.gov.uk/other/ loan, purpose of loan, turnover size, business sector, etc., is detailed on the BIS website: Higher Education http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/enterprise/finance/efg/ page37607.html Lynne Featherstone: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what Miss McIntosh: To ask the Minister of State, Department percentage of university students had not received for Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he payments due to them from Student Finance England has made of the reasons for which businesses which before the start of the academic year 2009-10; what were offered loans under the Enterprise Finance Guarantee average length of time is which elapsed from the start scheme did not draw down those loans. [294588] of the academic year until receipt of payments for such students; and if he will make a statement. [293048] Ms Rosie Winterton: Businesses granted loan facilities backed by the Enterprise Finance Guarantee are given Mr. Lammy: Payments of maintenance grant and six months within which to draw down the facilities loan to higher education students are not made until offered. they have registered on their course and the higher education institution has told the Student Loans Company. The current conversion rate from offered to drawn Registrations take place throughout September and loans exceeds 80 per cent. and is expected to rise. Given October. the scheme was launched in January; it is too early to make any comprehensive assessment of the reasons The Student Loans Company will shortly release behind a few businesses deciding not to draw down figures to show the levels of processing and payment of loans offered under the scheme. student support in England for the 2009/10 academic year. Further Education The releases will include the following information: Total applications received Mr. Willetts: To ask the Minister of State, Applications approved Department for Business, Innovation and Skills if he Applications currently being processed will place in the Library a copy of the KPMG report Ineligible/withdrawn applications for the Learning and Skills Council on learner success Applications started online but not completed rates in further education. [296243] Further information required from student/sponsors Students receiving first maintenance payment. Kevin Brennan: This is a Learning and Skills Council The first release of this information will be on 27 October (LSC) report, commissioned by the LSC/Ofsted Joint 2009, and this will cover the processing and payment up Consultative Committee. KPMG were technical advisors to and including 18 October. This will be followed by a for the report. A copy of the report has been placed in further two updates at weekly intervals. The information the Library. will be made available on the Student Loans Company website. Further Education: Finance All eligible students who applied by the deadline had payments approved; some were interim payments. For Joan Walley: To ask the Minister of State, Department those who have received an interim payment, but have for Business, Innovation and Skills what criteria the provided the correct evidence by the end of August, Learning and Skills Council requested its consultants they will receive any additional payments they are entitled to apply in evaluating bids by further education colleges to by the end of October. for capital funding. [295836] Mr. Evans: To ask the Minister of State, Department Kevin Brennan: In line with Sir Andrew Foster’s for Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he recommendations, the Learning and Skills Council has made of the number of students studying for consulted with the FE sector through a reference panel higher education qualifications concerning (a) physics, of college principals convened by the Association of (b) chemistry, (c) biology and (d) media studies. Colleges on the best approach to prioritise projects. [296539] 545W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 546W

Mr. Lammy: The latest figures for postgraduate and Ian Lucas: There are 401 car dealerships in the West undergraduate enrolments in physics, chemistry, biology Midlands which have accepted claims under the car and media studies are shown in the table. scrappage scheme. Figures for the 2008-09 academic year will be available from the Higher Education Statistics Agency in January Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Minister of State, 2010. Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what plans there are for the future of the car scrappage Enrolments1 in physics, chemistry, biology and media studies by level of study UK higher education institutions: 2007-08 scheme; and if he will make a statement. [296198] Level of study Subject of Study Postgraduate Undergraduate Ian Lucas: On 28 September 2009 the Government announced plans for a further £100 million of funding Physics 3,515 11,355 for the scheme. This would mean that the scheme will Chemistry 4,550 14,265 cover up to 400,000 transactions. It will come to an end Biology 4,340 22,020 on 28 February 2010 or when the funding runs out, Media studies 2,880 25,205 whichever is the sooner. 1 Covers students of all domiciles enrolled on full-time and part-time courses. Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Minister of State, Notes: Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what 1. Figures are based on a HESA Standard Registration Population. 2. Figures have been rounded to the nearest five. estimate he has made of the additional revenue Source: accruing to the motor industry as a result of the car Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) scrappage scheme since the introduction of the scheme. [296199] Internet: Computer Viruses Ian Lucas: A BIS assessment of the UK scrappage John Mann: To ask the Minister of State, scheme has estimated a short term stimulus to the value Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what of UK vehicles sales worth approximately £2.1 billion. steps the Government are taking to protect UK On 28 September 2009 the Government announced an internet users from computer viruses and malicious extension to the scheme. The revised cumulative figure software. [294926] is currently expected to be £2.8 billion by the time the scheme comes to an end. Mr. Timms: The Government acknowledge that viruses and malware are a significant problem for UK internet National Economic Council Sub-Committee on Better users. We have supported initiatives—in particular Get Regulation Safe Online that encourage users to adopt technological measures and good on-line behaviour to avoid becoming John Penrose: To ask the Minister of State, victims. Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (1) This was a theme that was also covered in the Digital what (a) regulations and (b) other proposals for new Britain Report. The report announced the creation of a regulation the National Economic Council Sub- Tripartite Initiative between Government, business and Committee on Better Regulation has considered since law enforcement to work together to tackle low level its establishment; [294078] crime. It also announced new activity by the Office of (2) how many times the National Economic Council Fair Trading to deal with scams conducted through the Sub-Committee on Better Regulation has reported to internet. Law enforcement work with banks and the the National Economic Council its conclusions on (a) internet industry to identify the sources of the problems, regulation and (b) proposals for new regulation since seeking to have such sites removed and to identify those its establishment; [294079] responsible. (3) how many times the National Economic Council Sub-Committee on Better Regulation has met since Motor Vehicles: Manufacturing Industries April 2009. [294081]

Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Minister of State, Tessa Jowell: I have been asked to reply. Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how Information relating to the proceedings of Cabinet many people have traded in their cars under the car and Cabinet committees is generally not disclosed as to scrappage scheme in the West Midlands since the do so could harm the frankness and candour of internal introduction of the scheme. [296196] discussion. Ian Lucas: Using data based on the locations of dealerships and data for scrappage transactions which National Skills Academy for Creative and Cultural have been completed and vehicles delivered, there have Skills: Thurrock been 15,190 completed scrappage transactions in the West Midlands. Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Minister of State, recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how State for Culture, Media and Sport on the funding many car dealerships have accepted cars under the car package for the National Skills Academy for Creative scrappage scheme in the West Midlands since the and Cultural Skills in Thurrock; and if he will make a introduction of the scheme. [296197] statement. [295803] 547W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 548W

Kevin Brennan [holding answer 28 October 2009]: Officials are considering the responses to the consultation The NSA Creative and Cultural has a key role to play in and will report to Lord Drayson this year. the regeneration of the Thames Gateway through transforming the delivery of skills to meet business Mr. Evans: To ask the Minister of State, Department needs in this important sector. It will be play a valuable for Business, Innovation and Skills how much the role in the development of technician skills in the Government spent directly or through indirect support Performing Arts in the run up to the 2012 Olympics and for projects relating to space exploration in the latest will provide a centre of excellence in these skills not year for which figures are available; and how much it available elsewhere. I discussed the Creative and Cultural intends to spend in the next 12 months. [296537] National Skills Academy with my hon. Friend the member for Stevenage (Barbara Follett) the then Minister for Mr. Lammy: The UK, through the Science and Culture and Tourism, during the recess. Technology Facilities Council (STFC), participates in the ’Aurora’ robotic space exploration programme of the European Space Agency (ESA). Quantum Technology Partnership In 2008-09, the UK spent a total of £14.6 million on the programme directly in the UK and through subscription Peter Luff: To ask the Minister of State, Department to ESA. In 2009-10 the UK is expected to spend for Business, Innovation and Skills what progress has £16.1 million on the programme. Expenditure for 2010-11 been made on the proposed Quantum Technology is subject to a future decision by STFC. Partnership in South Worcestershire; what involvement (a) his Department and (b) the regional development agency have had with the project; and if he will make a Students: Grants statement. [293755] Dr. Cable: To ask the Minister of State, Department Ms Rosie Winterton [holding answer 16 October 2009]: for Business, Innovation and Skills how many students The Quantum Technology Partnership is intended to received non-repayable maintenance grants from (a) bring together QinetiQ, universities and industry to Richmond-upon-Thames education authority and (b) create a world class centre for the industrial exploitation all English local education authorities in each of the of quantum technology research. AWM has been working last five years; and what the average grant received by with the partners to develop the project over the past 12 such students was in each case in each of the last five months. The agency has employed a specialist project years. [294754] manager to support the partners, and has also commissioned economic impact work and contributed Mr. Lammy: The information is as follows. to the costs of some of the property aspects of the Students awarded grants in academic years 2004-05 to 2008-09 project. (provisional)1 Number of students In January AWM received an application for funding Academic year awarded grants Average (£) of up to £10 million towards the project. The project received outline approval on 6 August 2009 and a full Richmond-upon- application is expected to be received for appraisal later Thames this month. Subject to satisfactory appraisal and approval 2004-05 470 1,040 by the Agency’s Investment Decision Group a funding 2005-06 780 1,010 agreement could be in place in January 2010. 2006-07 1,110 1,550 2007-08 1,390 1,860 The partners have also sought funding from BIS; the 2 Department is exploring funding opportunities with 2008-09 1,440 2,240 AWM. England 2004-05 127,000 1,170 Spaceflight 2005-06 215,000 1,120 2006-07 333,000 1,660 2007-08 404,000 2,000 Mr. Evans: To ask the Minister of State, Department 2008-092 453,000 2,290 for Business, Innovation and Skills what discussions his 1 Figures cover the higher education grant, the maintenance grant and Department has had on the development of a UK grants and allowances for children and dependents. Space Agency in the last two years. [296535] 2 Provisional 2008/09 data at mid-November 2008. Figures may change as later applications are processed. Source: Mr. Lammy: In the last two years my Department has Student Loans Company held no formal discussions on the development of a UK Grant figures in the table cover the higher education Space Agency. grant, introduced in 2004, the maintenance grant, phased A public consultation on the funding and management in from 2006, and grants and allowances for children of UK civil space activities has just closed. Respondents and dependents. Different amounts are available for were asked to state whether there is there a case for each type of grant. Figures contain students in each considering different institutional arrangements for funding year of their courses. The amount a student receives and managing UK civil space activities and if so, what depends on household income, year of entry to higher possible alternative models might the Government consider. education and personal circumstances. 549W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 550W

Students: Loans The Student Loans Company will shortly release figures to show the levels of processing and payment of Mr. Drew: To ask the Minister of State, Department Student Support in England for the 2009-10 academic for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent year. discussions he has had with the Student Loans The releases will include the following information: Company (SLC) on its research on the number of Total applications received students expected to enter higher education in autumn Applications approved 2009; and what recent assessment he has made of the Applications currently being processed adequacy of SLC staffing levels to deal with that Ineligible/withdrawn applications number of applications. [292486] Applications started online but not completed Further information required from student/sponsors Mr. Lammy: The financial settlement requested by the Student Loans Company (SLC) for financial year Students receiving first maintenance payment. 2009-10 assumed an additional 24,000 applications would The first release of this information will be on 27 be received in academic year 2009-10 compared to the October 2009, and this will cover the processing and previous year. The Department met SLC’s 2009-10 payment up to and including 18 October 2009. This will financial settlement in full, providing all of the £6.9 be followed by a further two updates at weekly intervals. million additional costs identified by the Company— The information will be made available on the Student including £993,000 specifically to process the expected Loans Company website. 24,000 additional applications. Subsequently, the Department provided a further £230,000 following a Mr. Drew: To ask the Minister of State, Department request from the company to help deal with the larger for Business, Innovation and Skills how many students than expected number of telephone calls received during have not yet had their application to the Student Loans August to October. Company finalised; and what assessment he has made of undue delays in finalising loans on the ability of new Mr. Drew: To ask the Minister of State, Department students to manage their finances without having to for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent resort to other loans and bank overdrafts. [292489] discussions he has had with the Student Loans Company on the robustness of its complaints system. Mr. Lammy: The Student Loans Company will shortly [292487] release figures to show the levels of processing and payment of Student Support in England for the 2009-10 academic year. Mr. Lammy: It is important that the Student Loans Company has sound arrangements for dealing with The releases will include the following information: complaints. My officials were involved in the recent Total applications received review of complaints handling undertaken by the company. Applications approved In May 2009, I appointed four new assessors to offer Applications currently being processed independent and impartial decisions on cases that are Ineligible/withdrawn applications not resolved within the company. In June 2009, I set Applications started online but not completed performance targets for the company relating to handling of complaints as part of a broad set of robust performance Further information required from student/sponsors measures. Students receiving first maintenance payment. The first release of this information will be on 27 Mr. Drew: To ask the Minister of State, Department October 2009, and this will cover the processing and for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent payment up to and including 18 October 2009. This will representations he has received concerning the be followed by a further two updates at weekly intervals. operation of the Student Loans Company; and if he The information will be made available on the Student will make a statement. [292488] Loans Company website. The Access to Learning Fund, provided by the Mr. Lammy: I have had a number of representations Government and administered by Higher Education from customers having difficulty in contacting the Student Institutions, can provide assistance to students in financial Loans Company to enquire about their applications for hardship. student support for the 2009-10 academic year because the Company has received more telephone calls than it Matthew Taylor: To ask the Minister of State, can answer. The SLC has put in place a number of Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how measures to help students follow the progress of their much has been deducted in student loan repayments applications, and to address the problems people have from the salaries of individuals in each income group had when trying to get through to their call centres. resident in (a) the Truro and St. Austell constituency, These include: creating 70 per cent. additional telephone (b) Cornwall and (c) England in each of the last five lines; adding 144 staff to answer phones, as well as more years. [295635] staff working overtime at the SLC and its outsource providers, increasing call centre operating capacity by Mr. Lammy: Deductions from salaries are made when around 35 per cent.; reminding students that they can the borrower’s income is above £15,000 per year, £1,250 check the status of their application online; and making per month or £288 per week. A borrower who starts improvements to answers to the most common enquiries work late in the tax year on an annual salary above on the internet, and directing callers to these via a £15,000 will have deductions made but may have earnings recorded telephone message. during the tax year of less than £15,000. 551W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 552W

Reliable information is not available at constituency Kevin Brennan: Train to Gain achievements for 2005/06 level. (April to July) to 2008/09, by level, were published in table 7.2 of the Post-16 Education and Skills statistical Matthew Taylor: To ask the Minister of State, first release (SFR) on 22 October 2009: Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how http://www.thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/sfroct09 many people of each age group resident in (a) the Truro and St. Austell constituency, (b) Cornwall and Mr. Willetts: To ask the Minister of State, (c) England had not repaid their student loans on the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how latest date for which figures are available. [295636] many qualifications have been awarded to individuals working for (a) small, (b) medium-sized and (c) large Mr. Lammy: Borrowers become liable to repay their companies through Train to Gain in each year since the loans in the April after they leave their course (the programme’s inception. [296256] statutory repayment due date, SRDD). After that date those with earnings of over £15,000 will repay, usually Kevin Brennan: The table shows Train to Gain by deductions from salary. Those liable to repay who achievements by employer size, in each year since the have not yet made a repayment will include borrowers programme’s inception. whose earnings are below the repayment threshold, have gone on to further study or are doing voluntary Train to Gain achievements by employer size work. Employer size (number of Reliable information is not available at constituency employees) 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-091 level. 1 to 49 400 18,200 72,000 189,100 Matthew Taylor: To ask the Minister of State, 50 to 249 500 12,100 46,200 111,400 Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what 250 to 4,999 500 9,200 31,500 89,800 estimate his Department has made of the average time 5,000 or more 1,400 6,000 15,000 41,300 it will take for an individual to repay in full a student Not defined 3,700 25,700 21,800 40,300 loan taken out (a) before and (b) after 2006. [295637] Total 6,500 71,100 186,500 471,900 1 Provisional data. Mr. Lammy: We estimate that students who entered Notes: 1. Numbers have been rounded to the nearest hundred and may not higher education since 1998, who took out Income sum to totals due to rounding. Contingent Repayment student loans, and who fully 2. Figures for 2008/09 are not comparable with earlier years. In repay, will take an average of around 13 years to do so. 2008/09 NVQs delivered in the workplace which were previously funded by FE are now funded through Train to Gain. Telephones: North West Source: WBL ILR Andrew Stunell: To ask the Minister of State, UK High Technology Fund Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has made of the number of (a) households and (b) businesses in each local authority area in the Adam Afriyie: To ask the Minister of State, North West that will be (i) liable for and (ii) exempt Department for Business, Innovation and Skills from payment of the levy on telephone lines proposed pursuant to the answer of 9 September 2009, Official in the Digital Britain White Paper. [296439] Report, column 2092W, on the UK High Technology Fund (UKHTF), what the cost of management fees Mr. Timms: This Department has made no specific related to the UKHTF has been in each year since its estimate of the number of (a) households and (b) formation; for what reasons the number of companies businesses in each local authority area in the North receiving funding through the UKHTF was lower in West which will be (i) liable for and (ii) exempt from 2007 and 2008 than in 2006; which underlying funds payment of the levy on telephone lines proposed in the have received funding from the UKHTF; what the Digital Britain White Paper. monetary value of funding from the UKHTF to Ofcom estimates that there are over three million underlying funds was in each year since 2001; and how fixed lines in the North West area. We do not have much funding remains available for (a) future funding estimates on the number of people on benefits in this of underlying funds and (b) in underlying funds which area but recognise that those on the lowest incomes have received funding from UKHTF for future might have difficulty paying the fixed line levy and that investments in business. [292909] is why we have confirmed that those on social telephony schemes will be exempt. The social telephony schemes Ms Rosie Winterton [holding answer 14 October 2009]: are available to those on income support, income-based The following table provides a response to the questions Job Seeker’s Allowance, Employment Support Allowance related to underlying funds that have received funding (income rated) or Guaranteed Pensions Credit. from the UKHTF; the monetary value of investments from the UKHTF to underlying funds in each year Train to Gain Programme since 2001; and, how much funding remains available for future funding of underlying funds. Mr. Willetts: To ask the Minister of State, The number of companies receiving investment through Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how UKHTF was lower in 2007 and 2008 than in 2006 as a many qualifications at each level have been awarded natural consequence of the underlying funds entering through Train to Gain in each year since the their post investment period where the focus was towards programme’s inception. [296255] managing out and exiting the existing portfolio. 553W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 554W

Unfortunately the information requested in this question We are unable to answer the question about how about cost of management fees related to UKHTF is much funding remains available in underlying funds commercially sensitive at this time in light of work BIS which have received funding from UKHTF for future is undertaking to source a fund of funds manager for investments in business, as this goes beyond the the UK Innovation Investment Fund (UKIIF). The Department’s interaction with the fund of funds manager. information will be released once the UKIIF fund of funds manager is appointed and this is likely to happen at the end of December.

Commitment Commitment 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Total remaining

MTI4 20,193 8,193 2,000 4,000 4,000 2,000 — — — 20,193 — Limited Partnership Amadeus 15,271 4,421 775 2,170 2,635 2,170 1,085 775 310 14,341 930 Capital Partners II The Merlin 12,816 5,241 2,422 2,188 1,200 1,085 395 261 24 12,816 — Biosciences Fund Advent 20,001 4,801 4,900 2,800 3,200 2,000 1,300 467 667 19,201 800 Private Equity Fund III Add One 10,157 2,569 442 1,106 1,808 1,489 1,013 719 352 9,498 659 Accel Europe 8,577 536 1,037 663 1,851 1,474 1,608 1,047 151 8,367 210 Scottish 10,000 1,203 1,241 910 1,925 1,273 2,392 1,056 — 10,000 — Equity Partners II Quester 20,000 3,000 1,800 3,700 1,700 4,000 2,044 1,756 500 18,500 1,500 Venture Partnership The Merlin 6,973 — 160 1,270 986 1,711 1,199 670 289 6,285 688 Biosciences Fund III 123,988 29,964 14,777 18,807 19,305 17,202 11,036 5,817 2,293 119,201 4,787

Vocational Training: Birmingham Mr. Straw: It is not possible to appeal directly from proceedings in UK courts to the European Court of Richard Burden: To ask the Minister of State, Department Human Rights. Proceedings at the European Court of for Business, Innovation and Skills what funding his Human Rights take the form of a new application Department has made available to (a) all unemployed against the United Kingdom under the European persons and (b) unemployed persons under the age of convention on human rights, which may or may not 21 years in (i) Birmingham, Northfield constituency relate to proceedings before the domestic courts. It is and (ii) Birmingham to learn new skills to retrain in the not therefore possible to make a direct numerical estimate latest period for which figures are available; and if he of the effect of the Human Rights Act in resolving cases will make a statement. [296271] that may otherwise have been considered by the European Court of Human Rights. Kevin Brennan: The information is not available at Advisory Panel on Judicial Diversity constituency or Jobcentre Plus district level. I have asked the acting chief executive of the Learning and Mr. Grieve: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Skills Council to write to my hon. Friend with information (1) how many staff working for the Advisory Panel on about funding for training for unemployed people available Judicial Diversity have been seconded from (a) his in his region. Department and (b) other Government departments; A copy of the letter will be placed in the Libraries of [296099] the House. (2) how many staff are working for the Advisory Panel on Judicial Diversity. [296100]

JUSTICE Mr. Straw: The Advisory Panel on Judicial Diversity European Court of Human Rights has no separate support. It is being supported by officials from within the Constitution & Judiciary Division of Mr. Hayes: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice the Ministry of Justice, within existing budgets. what estimate he has made of the number of cases None of the officials work full-time for or on the resolved in the UK courts under the provisions of the advisory panel, but, seven spend significant time on it. Human Rights Act 1998 in respect of which leave to appeal to the European Court of Human Rights might Mr. Grieve: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice otherwise have been sought; and if he will make a what criteria were used to appoint members of the statement. [296042] Advisory Panel on Judicial Diversity. [296102] 555W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 556W

Mr. Straw: The Advisory Panel on Judicial Diversity Departmental Telephone Services was set up by me to give advice on possible changes to improve judicial diversity. The members were selected Mr. Oaten: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice if because of their experience. of the justice system, equality he will consider the merits of securing accreditation of and diversity issues, and their capacity to identify and his Department’s helplines to The Helplines develop practical proposals for change. Association’s quality standard; and if he will make a The chair of the panel is Baroness Julia Neuberger statement. [295721] DBE, while the other members of the panel are: Dr. Nicola Brewer CMG Bridget Prentice: The Ministry of Justice is considering whether all of its helplines should be required to attain Dame Professor Hazel Genn DBE QC a relevant recognised accreditation. If the Department Lord Justice Goldring proceeds with this requirement, it will discuss with each Andrew Holroyd CBE helpline which of the available accreditations (including Winston Hunter QC the Helplines Association standard) is best suited to its business needs. Details of their biographies can be obtained from the following link Driving Offences http://www.justice.gov.uk/news/ newsrelease280409b.htm#panel-members. Mr. Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many people have been prosecuted for driving cars while uninsured in each police authority area in the Mr. Grieve: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice East of England in each year since 1999. [296036] what the estimated annual cost is of running the Advisory Panel on Judicial Diversity. [296103] Claire Ward: The number of persons proceeded against at magistrates courts in the East of England Government Mr. Straw: The Advisory Panel on Judicial Diversity office region for using a motor vehicle uninsured against has been asked to report within 12 months of starting third party risks, by police force area, from 1999 to 2007 and so will not have ongoing annual running costs. (latest available) is given in the following table. The costs of the panel, from April 2009 to the end of Data for 2008 are planned for publication at the end September, were £13,447. of January 2010.

The number of persons proceeded against at magistrates courts for using a motor vehicle uninsured against third party risks1 in the East of England Government office region, 1999 to 20072,3,4 Area 1999 2000 2001 2002 20035 2004 2005 2006 2007

Bedfordshire 2,113 2,124 2,879 2,871 3,065 2,968 3,090 2,702 2,436 Cambridgeshire 1,665 1,682 1,334 1,518 1,728 1,793 2,003 2,826 1,972 Essex 4,581 5,177 5,076 5,152 4,791 4,724 4,802 4,511 4,865 Hertfordshire 2,822 3,407 3,869 4,675 5,147 5,462 5,820 6,023 4,523 Norfolk 2,092 2,363 2,753 3,166 3,812 3,204 2,725 2,690 2,509 Suffolk 2,307 2,115 2,310 2,594 3,225 3,232 2,588 2,250 1,768 Total 15,580 16,868 18,221 19,976 21,768 21,383 21,028 21,002 18,073 1 Offence under the Road Traffic Act 1988, section 143(2). 2 Data given are on a principal offence basis. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences the principal offence is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 3 It is known that for some police force areas the reporting of court proceedings, in particular those relating to summary motoring offences, may be less than complete. 4 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their limitations are taken into account when those data are used. 5 As from 1 June 2003, “driving a motor vehicle while uninsured against third party risks” became a fixed penalty offence. Source: Office for Criminal Justice Reform—Evidence and Analysis Unit.

Judges: Retirement Number of Number of deaths in retirements service

1 April 2006 to 31 March 2007 55 7 Mr. Grieve: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 1 April 2007 to 31 March 2008 70 9 how many judges have retired in each of the last three 1 April 2008 to 31 March 2009 93 1 years. [296111] Members: Correspondence Sir John Stanley: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Straw: The following table sets out the numbers Justice if he will issue a direction to the Coroner for of retirements and deaths in service of those who North West Kent to reply to the letters of 29 June and previously held judicial office in England and Wales 26 August 2009 from the right hon. Member for Tonbridge over the last three financial years. and Malling sent on behalf of his constituent Mr Simon Higgins. [295474] 557W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 558W

Bridget Prentice: Although Ministers in this Department Mr. Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice do not have any authority to intervene in operational how many persons convicted of terrorist offences have matters of this nature, I understand that the coroner been released into post-custody supervision in the had not in fact received the right hon. Member’s community since 2001. [296546] correspondence as it had been sent to a previous address. However, he has now been sent copies and I understand Mr. Straw: Since 2007, the National Offender Management that he has replied. Service has held information centrally on the number of offenders convicted of terrorist or terrorism-related offences Prison Accommodation who have been released into post-custody supervision. To provide the information requested, going back to Alan Duncan: To ask the Secretary of State for 2001, would require manual checking of records, which Justice how many offenders convicted of terrorism could be undertaken only at disproportionate cost. offences have been housed in approved premises following their release from custody since January Since 2007, 36 offenders convicted of terrorist or 2007; and what additional resources were provided to terrorism-related offences have been released to licensed assist with their supervision in each case. [295840] supervision in the community. None of these offenders has been arrested or convicted of a terrorist or terrorism- Maria Eagle: Since September 2008, information on related offence following release. the release details of individuals convicted of terrorism or terrorism-related offences has been held centrally. Prisoners Release Since then, 11 terrorist offenders have been released to approved premises. Data about offenders released into Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice approved premises (formerly known as bail/probation how many 18 to 24-year-olds released from prison hostels) is collected centrally, from information supplied received support under (a) section 21 of the National by individual approved premises. The data collected Assistance Act 1948 and (b) section 47 of the National does not include offence details more generally. Obtaining Health Service and Community Care Act 1990 this information dating back to 2007 would have to be immediately on their release in (i) 2007, (ii) 2008 and done on a case by case basis, and as such could be (iii) 2009. [295834] collected only at disproportionate cost. Probation areas may apply to register with the National Maria Eagle: Data on the release of offenders who Offender Management Service as Critical Public Protection subsequently receive accommodation related support Cases (CPPCs) those offenders, including offenders convicted from both local authorities and community care services of terrorism or terrorism-related offences, who present isnotroutinelycollectedbyNOMS.Additionally,approximately the highest levels of risk of harm. Where offenders are 55 per cent. of all sentenced releases from custody do registered as CPPCs, areas may apply for additional not receive a period of statutory supervision. Therefore funding to strengthen local risk management plans: there is no facility for recording such information and to Such funding can cover temporary additional staffing in provide the data requested would be at disproportionate approved premises, a member of staff to escort offenders cost. outside the approved premises, improvements to security equipment at approved premises or other specific interventions Prisoners: Mothers which contribute to public protection. Prisoners Release Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many and what proportion of the female prison Alan Duncan: To ask the Secretary of State for population are mothers. [295827] Justice how many under the End of Custody Licence scheme since June 2007 had previously been refused Maria Eagle: This information is not collected centrally release on Home Detention Curfew. [295842] and in order to provide it staff would need to look at each individual’s record. This could be completed only Maria Eagle: Between 29 June 2007 and 31 August at disproportionate cost. In addition, it would not be 2009, around 67,400 prisoners were released under End possible to guarantee the accuracy of the data as it is of Custody Licence, the latest date for which this figure often reliant on information being provided by the is available. Of these, around 11,200, about 17 per cent. prisoners themselves. had previously been refused release on home detention The 2003-04 resettlement survey commissioned by curfew. the then Prison Service Custody to Work Unit showed These figures have been drawn from administrative that half of all female prisoners had dependent children IT systems, which, as with any large scale recording (including stepchildren), and that 46 per cent. of those system, are subject to possible errors with data entry women had lived with at least one dependent child and processing. before custody. There is a significant difference between the operation of the HDC scheme and release on ECL. Release on Reoffenders HDC can lead to the release on licence for up to four and a half months before the automatic release date. Keith Hill: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice The average period spent on HDC is about two and a what the reconviction rate of offenders (a) under and half months. In contrast, the maximum period spent on (b) over the age of 18 following (i) a non-custodial ECL is two and a half weeks, 18 days. sentence and (ii) each successive custodial sentence up The qualifying criteria and selection processes for the to and including the tenth was in the most recent schemes reflect these differences. period for which figures are available. [295212] 559W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 560W

Maria Eagle: Tables 1 and 2 following show the one 2 by previous custodial sentences. The tables show the year reoffending rates for adult offenders released from proportion of offenders that committed at least one custody or commencing a court order in the first quarter further offence and the number of further offences of 2007; table 1 by custodial and court orders and table committed per 100 offenders.

Table 1: Actual reoffending rate and frequency rate per 100 offenders from the 2007 adult cohort Number of offenders released from Number of offences per 100 Sentence type prison or commencing a court order Actual reoffending rate offenders

Custody 12,810 47.2 223.2 Court orders under 37,275 36.1 121.3 probation supervision1 1 Court orders include community sentences, community orders and suspended sentence orders supervised by the probation service. They do not include any pre or post release supervision.

Further information on adult rates of reoffending http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/ can be found in: reoffendingofadults.htm

Table 2: Actual reoffending rate and frequency rate per 100 offenders, by number of previous custodial sentences, from the 2007 adult cohort Number of previous Number of offenders released from Number of offences per 100 custodial sentences prison or commencing a court order Actual reoffending rate offenders

No previous 26,819 25.2 72.6 One previous 6,225 40.3 131.4 Two previous 3,629 48.9 179.9 Three previous 2,491 52.4 198.2 Four previous 1,883 56.6 236.3 Five previous 1,585 59.9 256.8 Between six and 10 4,516 64.5 288.7 More than 10 2,937 76.4 447.1 Total 50,085 39.0 147.3

Tables 3 and 4 following show the one year reoffending and table 4 by previous custodial sentences. The table rates for juvenile offenders released from custody, shows the proportion of juvenile offenders that committed commencing a non-custodial court disposal or those at least one further offence and the number of further given an out-of-court disposal in the first quarter of offences committed per 100 offenders. 2007; table 3 by custodial and non-custodial sentences

Table 3: One year reoffending rates, offenders leaving custody by custodial and non-custodial sentences, from the 2007 juvenile cohort Number of juvenile offenders released from custody, commencing a noncustodial court Number of offences per 100 disposal or those given an out-of-court disposal Actual reoffending rate offenders

Out-of-court disposal 33,318 26.4 59.7 First-tier penalty 10,869 47.4 154.5 Other disposal 822 65.2 288.0 Community penalty 6,757 69.0 280.4 Custody 778 75.3 359.0 Total 52,544 37.5 115.7

Table 4: Actual reoffending rate and frequency rate per 100 offenders, by number of previous custodial sentences, from the 2007 juvenile cohort Number of juvenile offenders released from Number of previous custody, commencing a non-custodial court Number of offences per 100 custodial sentences disposal or those given an out-of-court disposal Actual reoffending rate offenders

No previous 51,101 36.2 106.9 One previous 778 80.5 372.4 Two previous 333 85.0 452.6 Three previous 161 86.3 539.8 Four previous 78 88.5 485.9 Five previous 54 90.7 472.2 More than six previous 39 89.7 594.9 Total 52,544 37.5 115.7

Further information on rates of reoffending of juveniles http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/ can be found in: reoffendingjuveniles.htm 561W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 562W

Sentencing and (b) a conviction resulting in (i) probation and (ii) a custodial sentence in each parliamentary constituency Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for in the East of England in each year since 1999. Justice what (a) minimum and (b) maximum sentence [295948] applies for someone convicted of an offence involving stealing car keys from a house then stealing a vehicle Claire Ward: Information held by the Ministry of parked outside. [295743] Justice on the number of offenders cautioned, found guilty, sentenced and those given a sentence that includes Mr. Straw: The more serious matter here is the stealing an element of probation at all courts for ‘stealing from of keys within the house. This constitutes burglary in a shops and stalls’ (shoplifting), in the East of England dwelling, for which the maximum penalty is 14 years’ region, 1999 to 2007, are shown in the following tables 1 imprisonment. That is the offence likely to be charged. and 2. There is no minimum penalty unless this is a third The court proceedings database does not hold specific offence of domestic burglary, in which case there is a information on the offender beyond age, gender and the minimum penalty of three years for an adult. court where the case was heard; therefore the Ministry Shoplifting: Sentencing of Justice cannot tell if the offender was a resident of the East of England region. Mr. Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Court proceedings data for 2008 are planned for how many incidents of shoplifting led to (a) a caution publication at the end of January 2010.

Table 1: Number of offenders cautioned1, 2 for ‘Shoplifting’3, East of England region, 1999 to 20074 Region/police force area 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007

Bedfordshire 681 492 647 513 641 753 855 887 687 Cambridgeshire 433 532 430 428 420 550 843 770 601 Essex 1,016 946 1,014 810 767 805 1,277 2,069 2,611 Hertfordshire 568 704 777 604 662 760 749 897 980 Norfolk 573 638 495 382 400 580 648 886 708 Suffolk 379 572 599 396 428 466 487 521 604 East of England region 3,650 3,884 3,962 3,133 3,318 3,914 4,859 6,030 6,191 1 The cautions statistics relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been cautioned for two or more offences at the same time, the principal offence is the more serious offence. 2 From 1 June 2000, the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 came into force nationally and removed the use of cautions for persons under 18 and replaced them with reprimands and warnings. These figures have been included in the totals. 3 Stealing from ‘shops and stalls’ (shoplifting) is an offence under Theft Act 1968, section 1. 4 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the courts, and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. Source: Office for Criminal Justice Reform: Evidence and Analysis Unit. Table 2: Number of offenders found guilty, sentenced and given a community rehabilitation order1, community order2, suspended sentence3 or an immediate custodial sentence for ‘Shoplifting’4 at all courts, East of England region, 1999 to 20075, 6 Region/police force area 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007

Bedfordshire Found guilty 798 805 867 916 1,098 1,073 879 551 594 Total sentenced 809 812 874 928 1,109 1,076 881 554 593 Of which: Community rehabilitation order 125 154 146 152 155 129 91 — — Community order n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 40 100 110 Suspendedsentence——232232225 Immediate custodial sentence 176 213 236 268 312 285 229 106 112

Cambridgeshire Found guilty 704 872 895 857 791 717 802 808 717 Total sentenced 701 869 897 853 791 716 803 808 710 Of which: Community rehabilitation order 68 116 121 171 124 124 39 1 — Community order n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 92 152 152 Suspendedsentence— 2————113345 Immediate custodial sentence 82 101 122 97 113 86 99 119 109

Essex Found guilty 1,622 1,578 1,744 1,624 1,686 1,646 1,841 1,715 1,913 Total sentenced 1,628 1,573 1,746 1,631 1,701 1,646 1,846 1,716 1,896 563W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 564W

Table 2: Number of offenders found guilty, sentenced and given a community rehabilitation order1, community order2, suspended sentence3 or an immediate custodial sentence for ‘Shoplifting’4 at all courts, East of England region, 1999 to 20075, 6 Region/police force area 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007

Of which: Community rehabilitation order 214 229 230 236 229 151 68 4 3 Community order n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 164 311 394 Suspendedsentence3—31223698113 Immediate custodial sentence 360 372 466 486 542 518 535 419 432

Hertfordshire Found guilty 779 889 917 964 1,051 1,130 1,126 874 846 Total sentenced 781 892 916 966 1,049 1,126 1,131 867 839 Of which: Community rehabilitation order 121 129 154 160 165 134 71 2 1 Community order n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 106 178 182 Suspendedsentence 1— 1— 2—184043 Immediate custodial sentence 86 134 176 199 191 237 239 199 160

Norfolk Found guilty 1,027 991 1,088 1,045 944 925 923 1,040 885 Total sentenced 1,033 989 1,083 1,043 941 919 920 1,035 885 Of which: Community rehabilitation order 92 107 146 151 90 60 35 6 2 Community order n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 116 256 192 Suspendedsentence12333—145636 Immediate custodial sentence 122 133 152 147 152 157 106 136 150

Suffolk Found guilty 666 749 771 743 839 726 745 659 732 Total sentenced 654 745 770 739 836 724 744 658 725 Of which: Community rehabilitation order 59 92 94 88 98 52 55 4 2 Community order n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 27 77 131 Suspendedsentence221334404256 Immediate custodial sentence 101 106 102 112 132 104 110 111 99

East of England region Found guilty 5,596 5,884 6,282 6,149 6,409 6,217 6,316 5,647 5,687 Total sentenced 5,606 5,880 6,286 6,160 6,427 6,207 6,325 5,638 5,648 Of which: Community rehabilitation order 679 827 891 958 861 650 359 17 8 Community order n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 545 1,074 1,161 Suspended sentence 7 6 10 10 12 8 122 291 318 Immediate custodial sentence 927 1,059 1,254 1,309 1,442 1,387 1,318 1,090 1,062 n/a = Not applicable. 1 Formerly a probation order. 2 Under the Criminal Justice Act 2003, various types of community order previously available for adults (community punishment order, community rehabilitation order, drug treatment and testing order) were replaced by a single generic community order with a range of possible requirements. Courts are able to choose different elements to make up a bespoke community order, which is relevant to that particular offender and the crime(s) they committed. 3 Fully suspended sentence prior to April 2005, suspended sentence order for offences committed from 4 April 2005. 4 Stealing from ‘shops and stalls’ (shoplifting) is an offence under Theft Act 1968, section 1. 5 These statistics relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offence for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences, the principal offence is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 6 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the courts, and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. Source: Office for Criminal Justice Reform: Evidence and Analysis Unit.

Young Offender Institutions: Injuries during use of force incidents at each young offender institution in (a) 2005, (b) 2006, (c) 2007 and (d) Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 2008; [292950] (1) how many actual or suspected fractures were incurred 565W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 566W

(2) how many control and restraint incidents were Table 1. Number of deaths where breast cancer was the underlying recorded at each young offenders institution in (a) cause of death1, Jarrow parliamentary constituency, South Tyneside local authority and North East government office region, 1997-20082,3 2005, (b) 2006, (c) 2007 and (d) 2008. [292951] Jarrow South Tyneside North East

Maria Eagle: The information requested is not available 1997 15 42 610 centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate 1998 17 39 571 cost by asking every young offender establishment to 1999 20 32 545 analyse all use of force records for these four years. Use 2000 19 31 518 of force is a last resort and is lawful only if its use is 2001 16 34 557 reasonable, proportionate and necessary. On 15 December 2002 21 34 515 2008 the Government published their response to the 2003 14 29 477 Independent Review of Restraint in Juvenile Settings 2004 13 26 524 which followed the deaths of two young people in 2005 13 25 553 secure training centres. As part of this a new four stage system is being developed for restraint of young people 2006 22 36 532 in both youth offender institutions and secure training 2007 12 23 475 centres. 2008 29 46 545 1 Cause of death for breast cancer was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision (ICD-9) codes 174-175 for the years 1997 to 2000, and Tenth Revision (ICD-10) code C50 for the CABINET OFFICE years 2001 to 2008. The introduction of ICD-10 in 2001 means that the numbers of deaths from this cause before 2001 is not completely Building Britain’s Future comparable with later years. 2 Based on boundaries, and postcode allocations to boundaries, as of 2009. Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet 4 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. Office what assessment was made of the sustainability Table 2. Number of deaths where cancer was the underlying cause of of the policies set out in Building Britain’s Future. death1, Jarrow parliamentary constituency, South Tyneside local 2,3 [288024] authority and North East government office region, 1997-2008 Jarrow South Tyneside North East Tessa Jowell: Building Britain’s Future set out a range of commitments that will positively benefit 1997 282 531 7,776 sustainability, including ensuring investment in energy 1998 280 549 7,901 efficiency and the next generation of renewables, nuclear 1999 282 526 7,529 and clean coal technology to make Britain a global 2000 272 522 7,469 leader in low carbon industries; incentives for the take 2001 278 542 7,811 up of low carbon buses; developing a National Cycle 2002 281 517 7,695 Plan to promote cycling as a mainstream form of personal 2003 264 526 7,649 transport; and a commitment over the next two years to 2004 263 527 7,629 build 20,000 new energy efficient social and affordable 2005 276 534 7,648 homes. 2006 297 485 7,667 2007 250 514 7,780 Cancer: North East 2008 284 542 7,949 1 Cause of death for cancer was defined using the International Mr. Hepburn: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision (ICD-9) codes 140-208 for Office (1) how many deaths from breast cancer there the years 1997 to 2000, and Tenth Revision (ICD-10) codes C00-C97 have been in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) South for the years 2001 to 2008. The introduction of ICD-10 in 2001 means Tyneside and (c) the North East in each year since that the numbers of deaths from this cause before 2001 are not completely comparable with later years. 1997; [296139] 2 Based on boundaries, and postcode allocations to boundaries, as of (2) how many deaths from cancer there have been in 2009. (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) South Tyneside and (c) 3 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. the North East in each year since 1997. [296140] Census: Religion Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Minister for the I have asked the authority to reply. Cabinet Office what account was taken of the process and results of the 2001 Census in deciding which Letter from Jil Matheson, dated October 2009: religions to list on the 2011 Census; what criteria were As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your used to determine the list; and if she will make a recent Parliamentary Questions asking: statement. [295047] 1) How many deaths from breast cancer there have been in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) South Tyneside and (c) the North East in each year since 1997. (296139) Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. 2) How many deaths from cancer there have been in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) South Tyneside and (c) the North East in each I have asked the authority to reply. year since 1997. (296140) Letter from Jil Matheson, dated October 2009: The tables attached provide the numbers of deaths where (1) As National Statistician I have been asked to reply to your breast cancer and (2) cancer were the underlying cause of death in recent Parliamentary Question asking what account was taken of (a) Jarrow parliamentary constituency, (b) South Tyneside local the process and results of the 2001 Census in deciding which authority and (c) North East government office region from 1997 religions to list on the 2011 Census; and what criteria were used to to 2008 (the latest year available). determine the list. (295047) 567W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 568W

The religion question was introduced in the 2001 Census as a Many Government Departments are already adopting voluntary question and has been designed to collect information the principles set out in the Taskforce report, including on religious affiliation, which is required by many users of census the use of social media techniques to increase engagement statistics for monitoring equality and planning of services. and collaboration with citizens in the formation of Question development for the 2011 Census began in 2005 and policy and the delivery of services, an example of which since then the Office for National Statistics (ONS) has consulted and engaged with a large number of census users including those is DEFRA’s online consultation on the Food 2030 from central, regional and local government, academia, community challenges groups and organisations to determine their requirements for http://sandbox.defra.gov.uk/food2030/. topics and questions in the 2011 Census. In addition, a. detailed An online forum was created enabling the public to specific consultation was conducted in 2006/7 to refine the user requirements for information on ethnic group, national identity, discuss their views on the issues facing the food system, religion and language questions for the 2011 Census. As a suite of providing a space to discuss the shape of the future food questions they provide the opportunity for individual respondents system. The public were invited to leave comments and to indicate their identity in the ways they consider most appropriate, questions which will be used to inform the forthcoming and which ONS will be able to measure in the most statistically final version of Food 2030. relevant way to meet the expressed needs of users. Consultation revealed a high demand for a religion question and the majority of responses indicated a requirement for comparability with the Jobseeker’s Allowance: Norwich 2001 Census question. The tick-box categories used in the 2001 Census continue to Chloe Smith: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet represent the largest religious groups and have been repeated in all testing of the religion question. The ‘none’ tick-box has been Office how many under 25 year olds in Norwich North renamed ‘no religion’ and been put first in the list to ensure that constituency claimed jobseeker’s allowance in (a) people who do not have a religious affiliation are aware that the 1997, (b) 2007, (c) 2008 and (d) 2009. [296343] question provides an appropriate response category. There is insufficient space on the questionnaire to include additional Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls tick-boxes. However, Census outputs based on the write-in answers for those religions not specifically identified by tick boxes will be within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. produced to meet user requirements. Consultation on the form I have asked the Authority to reply. and content of outputs from the 2011 Census is now underway. Letter from Jil Matheson, dated October 2009: The Draft Census (England and Wales) Order setting out the As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your information to be collected in the 2011 Census was laid before Parliamentary Question asking how many under 25 year olds in Parliament on 21 October. To coincide with the laying of the Norwich North constituency claimed jobseekers allowance in (a) Census Order, additional material covering the recommendations 1997 (b) 2007 (c) 2008 and (d) 2009. (296343) for questions to be asked in the 2011 Census has been placed on the census website at: The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiles the number http://www.ons.gov.uk/census/2011-census/20ll-census- of claimants of Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) from the Jobcentre questionnaire-content/question-and-content-recommendations- Plus administrative system. Table 1 shows the number of persons for-2011/index.html under 25 years old, in the Norwich North constituency, who were claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance in September 2009, the latest Departmental Training data available, and the same month in 2008, 2007 and 1997. National and local area estimates for many labour market John Mason: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant Office how many external training courses were count are available on the NOMIS website at http:// attended by staff of her Department in the last 12 www.nomisweb.co.uk. months; and what the cost of attendance was of each Table 1: Number of persons1 under 25-years-old resident in Norwich such course. [289706] North constituency claiming jobseeker’s allowance Number2 Tessa Jowell: Cabinet Office is committed to life-long learning and personal development for all its employees. September 1997 670 Individual management units decide on appropriate September 2007 350 training to meet individual need and provide funding. September 2008 410 Information on attendance and cost is not held centrally September 2009 715 and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. 1 Age data are only available for computerised claims, which account for 99.7 per cent. of all claims. Government Departments: Power of Information 2 Data rounded to nearest 5. Taskforce Source: Jobcentre Plus administrative system Margaret Moran: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what changes in practice have been implemented National Economic Council by Government Departments following publication of the final report of the Power of Information Taskforce Lorely Burt: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet on 2 March 2009. [292790] Office what costs the National Economic Council has Tessa Jowell: The Government Response to the Power incurred since October 2008. [291890] of Information Taskforce Report, published in May, accepted the recommendations of the report in principle. Tessa Jowell: It is not possible to isolate costs incurred The Cabinet Office, Central Office of Information and by the National Economic Council. Administration of the National Archives are leading on delivering these the Council is one of a range of responsibilities falling recommendations, including building the capabilities to the Economic Policy Coordination Team within the needed to deliver the themes of the Taskforce report Economic and Domestic Affairs Secretariat in the Cabinet across government. Office. 569W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 570W

Lorely Burt: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet been suppressed or geographies collapsed in accordance with Office how many times the National Economic Council ONS guidelines on confidentiality. Details are given on the relevant has met since October 2008. [291892] tables. Further figures could not be provided without disproportionate cost. Tessa Jowell: The National Economic Council has Table 4 provides numbers of conceptions to women aged (i) met regularly since its inception in October 2008. under 18 by (C) primary care organisation for 2007, the only year for which figures are available. Further figures by primary care Information relating to internal meetings, discussion organisation could not be provided without disproportionate and advice and the proceedings of Cabinet and Cabinet cost. committees is generally not disclosed as to do so could A copy of the tables has been placed in the House of Commons harm the frankness and candour of internal discussion. Library. Details of the membership and terms of reference of the Committee are available in the Libraries of both Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Houses and on the Cabinet Office website. Office how many pregnancies there were where either the mother or the father was aged (a) 13 and under, National Economic Council: Arrests (b) 14 or 15 and (c) between 16 and 18 years in each of the last five years. [296491] Lorely Burt: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what assessment she has made of the Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls performance of the National Economic Council in within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. meeting its objectives to date; and if she will make a I have asked the Authority to reply. statement. [291891] Letter from Jil Matheson, dated October 2009: As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your Tessa Jowell: Since its inception in October 2008 the recent Parliamentary Question asking how many pregnancies National Economic Council has led the Government’s there were where either the mother or the father was aged (a) 13 action to support households and businesses in response and under, (b) 14 or 15 and (c) between 16 and 18 years in each of to the recession and to prepare for a sustainable recovery. the last five years. (296491) Figures on conceptions are estimates based on the number of Teenage Pregnancy live births, stillbirths or legal abortions. They do not include miscarriages and illegal abortions. Anne Milton: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet The table below provides the number of conceptions to women Office how many conceptions and what (a) rate and aged (a) under 14, (b) 14 or 15 and (c) 16 to 18 years for England (b) percentage of conceptions there were for (i) under and Wales for 2003 to 2007 (the most recent year for which figures 18-year-olds and (ii) under 16-year-olds in each (A) are available). strategic health authority area, (B) local authority area Figures on conceptions by father’s age are not available. and (C) primary care trust area in each quarter from Conceptions1 to women aged (a) under 14 years2 ,(b)142 or 152 years 1998. [295888] and (c) 16 to 182 years, 2003-2007: England and Wales3Numbers Age of women at conception Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls (a) Under 14 (b) 14 or 15 (c) 16 to 18 within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. years years years I have asked the authority to reply. 2003 334 7,690 60,748 Letter from Jil Matheson: 2004 337 7,278 61.956 As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your 2005 327 7,603 62,439 Parliamentary Question asking how many conceptions and what 2006 295 7,531 62,436 (a) rate and (b) percentage of conceptions there were for (i) under 18 year olds and (ii) under 16 year olds in each (A) strategic 2007 369 7,831 63,748 health authority area, (B) local authority area and (C) primary 1 Figures on conceptions are estimates based on the number of live care trust area in each quarter from 1998. (295888) births, stillbirths or legal abortions. They do not include miscarriages and illegal abortions. Figures on conceptions are estimates based on the number of 2 Age at estimated date of conception. live births, stillbirths or legal abortions. They do not include 3 Women usually resident in England and Wales. miscarriages and illegal abortions. Table 1 provides numbers of conceptions to women aged (i) Unemployment: Newport Gwent under 18 by (B) local authority district, for each quarter from 1998 to 2007 (the most recent year for which figures are available). Quarterly figures on conceptions to women aged under 16 are not Jessica Morden: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet published in order to protect the privacy of individuals. Rates and Office how many people aged between 16 and 24 years percentages by local authority district for each quarter could not had been unemployed in Newport East constituency be provided without disproportionate cost. for over (a) six and (b) 12 months on the latest date Table 2 provides (a) numbers, (b) percentages and (c) rates for for which figures are available. [295932] conceptions to women aged (i) under 18 and (ii) under 16 for (A) Strategic Health Authorities for each year from 1998 to 2007. Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls Table 3a provides (a) numbers and (b) percentages for conceptions within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. to women aged (i) under 18 for (B) local authority districts for I have asked the Authority to reply. each year from 1998 to 2007. Table 3b provides (a) numbers for conceptions to women aged (ii) under 16 for (B) local authority Letter from Jil Matheson, dated October 2009: districts in three-year aggregated groups from 1998 to 2006 (the As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your most recent year for which figures are available). Figures on Parliamentary Question asking how many people aged between conceptions to women aged under 16 are not published for local 16 and 24 years were unemployed in Newport East constituency authority districts in order to protect the privacy of individuals. for over (a) six and (b) 12 months on the latest date for which To protect the privacy of individuals, some cells in the tables have figures are available. (295932) 571W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 572W

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiles unemployment Burma: Overseas Aid statistics for local areas from the Annual Population Survey and its predecessor the annual Labour Force Survey (LFS) following International Labour Organisation (ILO) definitions. Mr. Andrew Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State However, estimates of unemployment for the requested age for International Development how much his Department band and geography are not available. As an alternative, we have has provided to emergency relief initiatives to support provided the number of persons, aged between 16 and 24, claiming those affected by the famine in Chin State, Burma, in Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) in September 2009 for over (a) six 2009; and whether he plans to increase that level of months and (b) 12 months, from the Jobcentre Plus administrative assistance in 2010. [296374] system. In September 2009 the number of persons aged between 16 Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International and 24 claiming JSA resident in the Newport East constituency Development (DFID) has committed a total of £880,000 for (a) over six months was 185 and (b) over 12 months was 10. for humanitarian assistance in response to severe food National and local area estimates for many labour market shortages in Chin State. Of this commitment, £600,000 statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant was disbursed towards the end of 2008 and £155,000 count are available on the NOMIS website at http:// www.nomisweb.co.uk. has been disbursed so far during 2009. We expect to disburse the remaining £125,000 shortly. Vetting: Scotland We are keeping the humanitarian situation in Chin State under close review and are considering, in consultation with the United Nations and other donors, how best to Chris Huhne: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet address longer-term food security needs in Chin State Office how many Government employees in England and other parts of Burma. and Wales were subject to basic disclosure checks undertaken by Disclosure Scotland in each year since Mr. Andrew Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State 2002. [294162] for International Development if his Department will Tessa Jowell: Since October 2008 all new Government provide assistance to cross-border humanitarian aid employees are required to satisfy recruitment controls initiatives across the India-Burma border, for the that include a check of unspent criminal record. It is the purpose of supplying aid to remote parts of Chin state responsibility of each individual public sector organisation which cannot be reached through in-country initiatives. to ensure these checks take place. The total number of [296375] new HMG employees and basic disclosure checks carried out is not collated or held centrally. Mr. Michael Foster: The Department of International Development (DFID) has no plans to provide funding for cross-border aid from India to Burma. DFID has committed £880,000 for humanitarian INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT assistance in response to the severe food shortages experienced in Chin State. This assistance is being delivered through the United Nations Development Programme, Afghanistan: Overseas Aid the World Food Programme and their local partners, which have access to all parts of Chin State from within Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Burma. International Development how much funding his Department has given to Sangin district, Helmand Mr. Andrew Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State province in each of the last five years. [295177] for International Development how much his Department has provided in cross-border humanitarian assistance Mr. Douglas Alexander: The Department for to eastern Burma in 2009; and whether he plans to International Development (DFID) works as part of increase that level of assistance in 2010. [296376] the cross-HMG and multi-national Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT) in Helmand. Sangin benefits Mr. Michael Foster: Approximately £360,000 of funding from a range of funding sources, both direct and indirect, from the Department for International Development and through national and regional programmes, so it is (DFID) is being used by non-governmental organisations not possible to specify the exact amount spent in the to provide cross-border humanitarian assistance from district. Thailand to eastern Burma in 2009. We anticipate that DFID has contributed indirectly to Sangin by providing this figure will increase in 2010. the Ministry of Rural Rehabilitation and Development DFID is also providing approximately £500,000 in (MRRD) with over £26.5 million since 2003. Two 2009 for cross-border aid from China to Shan and community-selected projects in Sangin worth almost Kachin States in north-eastern Burma. Proposals to £650,000 are currently nearing completion under MRRD increase this funding in 2010 are under consideration. oversight. Sangin has also benefited from the Helmand wheat seed programme. Last year, DFID and the cross- Government Stabilisation Aid Fund (SAF) each contributed Christmas £2 million to distribute wheat to 32,000 farmers across Helmand, including 2,000 in Sangin. This year, DFID Mr. Prisk: To ask the Secretary of State for and the SAF will each contribute £5 million to reach International Development how many Christmas almost 40,000 farmers, including 2,200 in Sangin. SAF functions arranged by his Department (a) he and (b) funding for stabilisation activities in Sangin last year officials of his Department (i) hosted and (ii) attended totalled £1.3 million. in 2008; and if he will make a statement. [295443] 573W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 574W

Mr. Douglas Alexander: I did not attend or host any The programme aims to promote peace and better Christmas functions in my role as Development Secretary governance across Somalia, meet humanitarian needs, arranged by the Department for International Development. and improve basic services; particularly health and Records for officials hosting or attending Christmas education. functions are not held centrally and could not be obtained DFID aid to Somalia is delivered through United without incurring disproportionate cost. Nations agencies and international non-governmental All expenditure incurred is made in accordance with organisations (NGOs), working with local implementation the principles of Managing Public Money and the partners. Treasury handbook on Regularity and Propriety. St Helena: Airports

Indonesia: Earthquakes Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development when he plans to publish the results of his Department’s recent consultation on James Duddridge: To ask the Secretary of State for future access to St. Helena. [295621] International Development what his assessment is of the effectiveness of the operations of the UK search Mr. Michael Foster: The Consultation Report is available and rescue teams in Pedang, Indonesia following the on the Department for International Development’s earthquake there; and if he will make a statement. website at: [296380] www.dfid.gov.uk Sudan Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International Development (DFID) sent a search and rescue team to Mr. Keith Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for Pedang in response to a request from the Government International Development what assessment he has of Indonesia for international search and rescue help. made of the effect of the expulsion of aid agencies in The team were able to undertake several vital tasks, South Kordofan and eastern Sudan following the using their skills and equipment to help guide the International Criminal Court’s indictment of President overall search and rescue effort, investigate otherwise Bashir in March 2009; and if he will make a statement. unsurveyed areas outside Pedang city and advise on [294672] problems such as the safety of damaged buildings and recovery of victims. Further information on how the Mr. Thomas: The Government of Sudan’s decision to UK is responding to the earthquake is available on the expel 13 international and close down 3 national NGOs DFID website: in March this year has had a detrimental effect on the www.dfid.gov.uk delivery of assistance to the people of South Kordofan and Eastern Sudan. Health facilities, water and sanitation projects and livelihood programmes run by these Overseas Aid: Rescue Services organisations have either lost support or have been discontinued. James Duddridge: To ask the Secretary of State for As with Darfur, the ability to respond to future International Development what search and rescue emergencies—such as floods or conflict—is now much missions to non-EU countries were undertaken by the lower in these areas. The effects of the expulsions are Urban Rescue Team with UK registered search and most acutely felt in the delivery of recovery and basic rescue dogs in each of the last five years. [296379] services programmes. Since March, several NGOs have been trying to expand or establish new programmes to Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International cover these gaps. In particular, Mercy Corps Scotland, Development (DFID) has been involved with two missions Care Switzerland, and Save the Children—Sweden plan that have used UK registered search and rescue dogs. to scale up programmes in South Kordofan. However, These were following the earthquakes in Pakistan in the Sudan Government has been slow to grant the 2005 and in Indonesia this October. DFID does not necessary permits and it is unlikely that new programmes have a record of all occasions that UK registered search will be fully operational for some months. and rescue dogs have been deployed.

Somalia: Overseas Aid TREASURY Child Care Vouchers Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how much funding his Jessica Morden: To ask the Chancellor of the Department has contributed to Somalia in the last 12 Exchequer how many employees have taken part in an months; and on what has it been spent. [295175] employer childcare voucher scheme in each year since the introduction of exemptions from tax and national Mr. Thomas: Information on the Department for insurance contributions on such vouchers. [295996] International Development’s (DFID) aid to all developing Mr. Timms: Published research, commissioned by countries in 2008-09 was published in Statistics on HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) in 2006, by the International Development, which is available online: National Centre for Social Research estimated that www.dfid.gov.uk. there were 174,000 users of child care vouchers available In 2008-09 (the latest period for which confirmed under Employer Supported Childcare (ESC) in late spending figures are available) total DFID bilateral aid 2005. The research report is available at: to Somalia was £33 million. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/research/report23-final.pdf. 575W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 576W

Information for other years is not available, as HMRC Mr. Byrne: The figures on total identifiable expenditure does not collect administrative data on the use of ESC. per head by country for 2004-05 to 2008-09 can be found in table 9.2 of Public Expenditure Statistical Council Tax Analyses (PESA) 2009 (Cm 7630).

Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for Revenue and Customs: Repayment Peterborough of 7 July 2009, Official Report, column 775W, on council tax, if he will take steps to ensure the Valuation Office Agency’s council tax banding support Miss McIntosh: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer tool is used to identify and correct errors in the council on how many occasions HM Revenue and Customs and tax banding list. [292862] its predecessor made a discretionary payment to a member of the public as an acknowledgement of error or Ian Pearson: The council tax banding support tool is mismanagement in each year since 1997; and what the not a suitable tool for such a use. It is accessed through monetary value of such repayments was in each such cases on individual properties and provides information year. [295658] about comparable bandings and settlements. It does not make decisions but provides information to valuers to Mr. Timms: The table provides the available information help them make decisions. Raising cases and generating on discretionary payments made by HM Revenue and this information for over 22.7 million properties (in Customs (HMRC) as a result of error or mismanagement. England) would be impractical and very resource intensive. Corresponding data for Inland Revenue and HM Customs and Excise for the nine years prior to the formation of Economic and Monetary Union: Local Government HMRC is not available.

Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Discretionary payments pursuant to the answer of 9 July 2009, Official Report, Number Value (£ million) column 966W,on the Euro Preparations Advisory Group, if he will place in the Library a copy of the minutes of 2005-06 n/a 3.27 the meeting from September 2006; and which local 2006-07 n/a 2.46 authorities were represented at that meeting. [294447] 2007-08 n/a 2.65 2008-09 21,221 2.69 Ian Pearson: The minute of the local authority euro preparations meeting of September 2006 has been deposited Information on the number of payments made prior in the Library of the House. We do not hold the to 2008-09 is not available due to the use of a different attendee list for this meeting. classification schemes before this year. Housing: Construction

Grant Shapps: To ask the Chancellor of the Thalidomide Trust: Taxation Exchequer what fiscal measures his Department has implemented to encourage the construction of new Rob Marris: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer homes in each year since 2001. [296608] whether extraordinary factors have been taken into account in determining the taxation status of the Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Government have recently Thalidomide Trust in the last 30 years; and if he will taken a number of steps to support house building and make a statement. [293899] construction in the context of the global economic downturn. In September 2008 as part of a £1 billion Mr. Timms: When the Thalidomide Trust was set up package of targeted support for home owners, home in 1974, it was subject to the same rules that govern buyers and the house building sector, the Government payments from all discretionary trusts. Under those announced that stamp duty land tax would not apply to rules, payments from Trust income counted towards the purchases of residential property of £175,000 or less for victims’ taxable income and also reduced their level of 12 months from 3 September 2008. Budget 2009 announced entitlement to tax credits. an extension until 31 December 2009. Around 160,000 transactions have benefited from this fiscal measure. In 2004, following consultation with the then Inland Previously, Budget 2007 announced details of a stamp Revenue, the trust agreed to change the way it makes duty land tax exemption for new zero-carbon homes payments to victims so that they could be classified as which supports the Government’s wider housing and “periodical” payments and potentially fall within the environmental objectives. As part of Budget 2008 the scope of legislation governing “structured settlements”. Government extended the exemption to new flats, The Treasury were then able to make use of a power retrospectively from 1 October 2007. bringing those periodical payments by the trustees to Thalidomide victims within the scope of a relief aimed Public Expenditure at structured damages settlements arrived at by agreement between the parties or by order of a court. Rob Marris: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer The new legislation took effect from 5 August 2004, what the Government’s per capita spending was in (a) after which payments from the trust to victims have not England, (b) Scotland, (c) Wales and (d) Northern counted as income for the purposes of calculating the Ireland in (i) 2004-05, (ii) 2005-06, (iii) 2006-07, (iv) victims’ income tax liabilities or their entitlement to tax 2007-08 and (v) 2008-09. [293900] credits. 577W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 578W

HEALTH Departmental Domestic Visits

Abortion Mike Penning: To ask the Secretary of State for Anne Milton: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many times each Minister within his Health what estimate his Department has made of the Department has visited (a) an accident and emergency number of repeat abortions undertaken in relation to department, (b) an independent sector treatment centre, (a) married and (b) unmarried women aged (i) under (c) a GP surgery, (d) an NHS dentist, (e) an urgent 16, (ii) under 18, (iii) 18 or 19, (iv) between 20 and 29, care centre, (f) a GP-led health centre and (g) a NHS (v) between 30 and 34 and (vi) 35 years and over in hospital trust facility in an official capacity in the last 12 each primary care trust area in the latest period for months. [294220] which figures are available. [295897]

Gillian Merron: The information is shown in a table, Phil Hope: As part of their official duties, Departmental which has been placed in the Library. Ministers visit a variety of accident and emergency departments, independent sector treatment centres, general practitioner (GP) surgeries, national health service dentists, Cancer: Diagnosis urgent care centres, GP-led health centres and NHS hospital trust facilities. The following visits occurred Mike Penning: To ask the Secretary of State for during the period 15 October 2008 to 14 October 2009. Health pursuant to the Answer to the hon. Member for South West Cambridgeshire, of 12 October 2009, Visits by each Minister during the last 12 months Official Report, columns 802-3W, on cancer: diagnosis, were: whether his Department has plans for any hospital (a) Alan Johnson building, (b) rebuilding and (c) renovation after the Number of visits 15 October winding down of the existing major programme for Type of organisation 2008-5June2009 renovating and rebuilding NHS hospitals. [295770] Independent sector treatment 0 centre Mr. Mike O’Brien: There are five large scale hospital GP surgery 3 building schemes (capital value over £100 million) currently NHS Dentist 0 going through the business case approvals process. Urgent care centre 0 This Government’s commitment to opening 100 new GP-led health centre 6 hospital schemes by 2010 has already been achieved. NHS hospital trust facility 16 This has addressed the most serious and urgent deficiencies in the age and quality of the hospital estate. Fewer Andy Burnham major hospital schemes are coming forward as a result Number of visits 8 June 2009 - and also because the type of facility required is changing Type of organisation 14 October 2009 as the national health service moves more services into Independent sector treatment 0 primary care and community settings and provides centre more diagnostic and other specialist facilities such as GP surgery 1 elective care centres. NHS Dentist 0 Urgent care centre 0 Contraceptives GP-led health centre 0 NHS hospital trust facility 4

Anne Milton: To ask the Secretary of State for Lord Darzi Health what the estimated expenditure on community Number of visits 15 October contraceptive services for women (a) aged under 20 Type of organisation 2008-21July2009 years and (b) aged 20 years and over was in (i) Independent sector treatment 0 England and (ii) each primary care trust area in the centre latest period for which figures are available. [295887] GP surgery 1 NHS Dentist 1 Gillian Merron: This information is not held centrally. Urgent care centre 1 GP-led health centre 4 Anne Milton: To ask the Secretary of State for NHS hospital trust facility 14 Health how many women in each primary care trust area began using each type of primary method of Ben Bradshaw contraception following their first visit to a community Number of visits 15 October contraceptive services facility in each year since Type of organisation 2008-5June2009 1997-98. [295892] Independent sector treatment 1 centre Gillian Merron: The information is not available in GP surgery 1 the format requested. Such information as is available is NHS Dentist 1 in table 15 of statistical bulletin NHS “Contraceptive Urgent care centre 0 Services, England 2008-09”. Tables 5A to 5J of this GP-led health centre 3 document also contain data by strategic health authority. NHS hospital trust facility 4 The document has been placed in the Library. 579W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 580W

Mike O’Brien The number of national health service sight tests is Number of visits 8 June 2009 - available in Table B1 of Annex C of the “General Type of organisation 14 October 2009 Ophthalmic Services for England and Wales: Year Ending Independent sector treatment 0 31 March 2009” report. However, these are the number centre of NHS sight tests and are not a count of individuals. GP surgery 1 Information is provided by primary care trust (PCT) NHS Dentist 0 and by strategic health authority (SHA) but is not Urgent care centre 0 available by parliamentary constituency. Information at GP-led health centre 2 national and SHA level is available annually from 1996-97 NHS hospital trust facility 5 to 2008-09. Information at PCT level is only available from 2003-04 onwards. Ann Keen This report, published on 19 August 2009, has been Number of visits 15 October placed in the Library and is also available on the website Type of organisation 2008 - 14 October 2009 of the Information Centre for health and social care at: www.ic.nhs.uk/pubs/gosactivity0809p2. Independent sector treatment 2 centre General Practitioners: Birmingham GP surgery 0 NHS Dentist 0 Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for Urgent care centre 0 Health how many general practitioner surgeries in GP-led health centre 0 south Birmingham have offered extended opening NHS hospital trust facility 12 hours in each quarter since April 2008. [296275]

Dawn Primarolo Mr. Mike O’Brien: Information on the number of general practitioner (GP) surgeries, located in the area Number of visits 15 October Type of organisation 2008-5June2009 covered by South Birmingham primary care trust (PCT), offering extended opening hours between April 2008 Independent sector treatment 0 and July 2009 is shown in the following table. centre GP surgeries located in the area covered by South Birmingham PCT, offering GP surgery 0 extended opening hours NHS Dentist 0 Number Urgent care centre 0 GP-led health centre 0 2008 NHS hospital trust facility 1 April 6 May 24 Gillian Merron June 29 July 39 Number of visits 8 June 2009 - Type of organisation 14 October 2009 August 39 September 39 Independent sector treatment 0 October 39 centre November 43 GP surgery 0 December 43 NHS Dentist 0 Urgent care centre 0 2009 GP-led health centre 0 January 43 NHS hospital trust facility 1 February 44 March 44 Phil Hope April 44 Number of visits 15 October May 46 Type of organisation 2008 - 14 October 2009 June 48 Independent sector treatment 0 July 51 centre GP surgery 0 This information is also available on the Department’s NHS Dentist 0 website at: Urgent care centre 0 www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Statistics/ GP-led health centre 1 Performancedataandstatistics/PrimaryCare/DH_089459 NHS hospital trust facility 10 Data since July 2009 is no longer centrally collected and can instead be obtained direct from the PCT. Eyesight: Testing Health Services: York

Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many people in (a) Derbyshire and (b) Health how many people have received treatment at North East Derbyshire constituency have received free York NHS walk-in centre in each year of its operation. eye tests since 1999. [295946] [295232] Ann Keen: This information is not available in the Mr. Mike O’Brien: The information requested in format requested. provided in the following table: 581W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 582W

First attendances at North Yorkshire and York and Selby and York Primary Care Trusts (PCTs) walk in centre Number of first Number of follow-up attendances at attendances at Total attendances at Organisation name Year Quarters walk-in centres walk-in centres walk-in centres

North Yorkshire and York PCT 2009-10 1 5,012 268 5,280 North Yorkshire and York PCT 2008-09 1-4 19,781 1,063 20,844 North Yorkshire and York PCT 2007-08 1-4 21,861 1,066 22,927 North Yorkshire and York PCT 2006-07 3-4 11,322 421 11,743 Selby and York PCT 2006-07 1-2 11,663 932 12,595 Total 2006-07 1-4 22,985 1,353 24,338

Selby and York PCT 2005-06 1-4 17,994 10,064 28,058 Selby and York PCT 2004-05 1-4 18,810 17,384 36,194 Selby and York PCT 2003-04 1-4 23,074 16,147 39,221 Note: Selby and York PCT merged to form North Yorkshire and York PCT in October 2006. Source: Department of Health dataset QMAE

HIV Infection Further analyses from this source could be produced only at disproportionate cost. Ms Abbott: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps he is taking to encourage general practitioner surgeries in areas with high levels of Hospitals: Parking HIV/AIDS to include an HIV test in their registration health checks; and if he will make a statement. [295562] Mike Penning: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) pursuant to the Answer to the hon. Member Gillian Merron: As part of the work the Department for South West Cambridgeshire of 14 October 2009, is undertaking to reduce the level of undiagnosed HIV Official Report, column 901W, on hospitals: parking, in the population, and to make HIV testing outside which back-office costs will be reduced; what benefits specialist centres more routine, we are funding eight to outpatients will result from the improved concession pilot projects (four in London) in a variety of settings to guidance; and how such benefits will be funded; examine the feasibility and acceptability of HIV testing. [295752] The settings chosen include general practitioner surgeries, and we will be undertaking an evaluation of the pilots (2) what calculations underlie his estimate of the cost to determine their wider implementation. per annum of phasing out car parking for in-patients and their visitors at hospitals; and what his estimate is This work follows publication of the UK National of the annual cost of each element of the scheme; Guidelines for HIV Testing (2008) by the British HIV [295771] Association, British Association of Sexual Health and HIV and the British Infection Society. The work is also (3) what estimate he has made of the proportion of supported by the documents, “HIV in Primary Care” his proposals which can be afforded (a) in 2009-10 and (2005), and “HIV for non-HIV specialists”, (2008), (b) in 2010-11. [295772] both published by the Medical Foundation for AIDS and Sexual Health. Additionally, in September 2007, Mr. Mike O’Brien: National health service organisations the chief medical officer and chief nursing officer wrote provide car parking to patients and visitors based on to all doctors and nurses, highlighting best practice their local plans, needs and circumstances. Therefore, about offering HIV testing, where appropriate, in all the details of implementing free car parking for in-patients healthcare settings. will vary between different NHS organisations including The chief medical officer sent a further letter to the proportion that can be afforded in each year and Medical Royal Colleges and Faculties of Medicine in which back-office costs will be reduced. However, all September 2009, encouraging them to take further action NHS organisations are expected to have fully implemented to diagnose HIV outside specialist settings. the change within three years. The improved concession guidance will benefit out-patients by stressing the Hospital beds: Elderly importance of tangible concessions for regular users, particularly out-patients, and by ensuring that all eligible Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for patients are made fully aware of them. Health what estimate he has made of the number of The estimate of annual cost per annum for phasing people aged 75 years and over who had at least one out in-patient car parking of £141 million was based on emergency readmission to hospital in (a) 1997, (b) two figures. The direct cost of in-patient parking was 2003 and (c) 2007 in (i) Vale of York constituency, (ii) based on the number of bed days recorded for elective, North Yorkshire and (iii) England. [294570] emergency and maternity care with each of the bed days resulting in two hours parking at the national average Mr. Mike O’Brien: The information is not available cost of visitor car parking per hour of £1.00 giving a in the format requested. Such information as is available total of £93 million. In addition, the impact of the NHS from the National Centre for Health Outcomes paying for private finance initiative and other commercial Development (NCHOD) has been placed in the Library. agreements was estimated at an additional £48 million. 583W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 584W

Hypergonadism need it. The NHS Plan stipulated that dieticians should advise and check on nutritional values in hospital food Mark Simmonds: To ask the Secretary of State for and this role is undertaken locally by staff in national Health (1) what guidance the NHS issues to clinicians health service trusts. The assessment of the nutritional treating men with hypergonadism; [296246] requirements of post-natal mothers who are breast feeding is a matter for local determination and the (2) whether the National Institute for Health and Department does not collect any data centrally. Clinical Excellence plans to produce guidance on the treatment of hypergonadism. [296247] Staff carrying out the assessments are assisted by availability of nutritional information within the ‘National Mr. Mike O’Brien: We are not aware of any national Dish Selector’—a resource compiled as part of the guidance issued by the national health service on the Better Hospital Food programme. Although this treatment of hypergonadism. There are no plans for the programme has now closed, its outputs are still available National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence to via the Hospital Caterers’ Association website: produce guidance on this subject. www.hospitalcaterers.org/. The National Dish Selector is a database of recipes that NHS: Information and Communications Technology can be searched by both recipe and ingredient. It is designed to be used by catering services as a resource Mr. Bacon: To ask the Secretary of State for Health from which to develop local menus with nutritional (1) what his latest estimate is of the number of users of content appropriate to patients’ needs. the Lorenzo software system at (a) Five Boroughs Partnership NHS Trust, (b) Bradford Teaching Hospitals Palliative Care: Finance NHS Foundation Trust, (c) University Hospitals of Morecambe Bay NHS Trust, (d) Hereford Hospitals Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State Trust and (e) South Birmingham Primary Care Trust; for Health which primary care trusts have received a [295789] portion of the £286 million assigned by the (2) what his latest estimate is of the highest number Government for end-of-life care in the End of Life of live concurrent users of the Lorenzo software Care Strategy; and how much each has received. system across English NHS trusts (a) at any one time [295503] and (b) on any one day. [295790] Phil Hope: An additional £286 million revenue and Mr. Mike O’Brien: The numbers of regular users of capital funding is being made available over 2009-10 Release 1 of the Lorenzo software system in the national and 2010-11 to support the implementation of the End health service bodies concerned are as follows: of Life Care Strategy. For 2010-11, this includes capital funding of £40 million for hospices. However, the majority Number of the funding is being allocated to primary care trusts (PCTs) through the 2009-10 and 2010-11 revenue Five Boroughs Partnership NHS Trust 43 allocations, so all PCTs will receive a portion of this Bradford Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation 12 funding. Trust University Hospitals of Morecambe Bay NHS 96 The Department does not break down PCT allocations Trust by policies at either national or local level. It is for PCTs Hereford Hospitals NHS Trust 7 to decide their priorities for investment locally, taking South Birmingham Primary Care Trust 16 into account both local priorities and the NHS Operating Framework. These figures exclude other registered users who use the system only occasionally. Pharmacy The highest number of live concurrent users across English NHS trusts at any one time, to date, is 19. This Mark Simmonds: To ask the Secretary of State for occurred on 6 October 2009. The number of concurrent Health pursuant to the answer of 21 July 2009, Official users of the system is lower than the aggregate number Report, column 1614W, whether he plans to discuss a of regular users because clinicians spend the majority replacement of the prescription item threshold with a of their time working directly with patients. Time spent scale of remuneration for pharmacists with interested using the system is relatively short, and in most care groups and representative bodies. [296250] settings, users will log in and log out of the system repeatedly throughout the day. Mr. Mike O’Brien: There is currently no plan for such a discussion. Nutrition: Mothers Pharmacy: Exports Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what recent assessment his Department has Mr. Todd: To ask the Secretary of State for Health made of the nutritional value of food served in NHS what assessment he has made of the effect of the hospitals to post-natal mothers who are breastfeeding. practice of parallel exporting on the availability of [295863] pharmaceuticals to NHS patients. [295913]

Ann Keen: An appropriate diet, based on acceptable Mr. Mike O’Brien: I refer my hon. Friend to the standards, requires good food with the right nutritional answer I gave on 12 October 2009, Official Report, content, properly prepared and available when patients column 735W. 585W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 586W

Pharmacy: Licensing Mr. Coaker: The total number of local authorities, schools, further education colleges or a partnership of Mr. Todd: To ask the Secretary of State for Health such bodies acting as a sponsor or co-sponsor which when he last reviewed licensing arrangements for have entered into a funding agreement since 2007 is 74. pharmaceutical wholesalers; and if he will make a Adoption statement. [295911]

Mr. Mike O’Brien: The Medicines and Healthcare Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) an executive Children, Schools and Families what estimate his agency of the Department, regulates manufacturers Department has made of the number of adopted and wholesale dealers of medicinal products for human children under the age of 18 in each local authority use in the United Kingdom on behalf of the UK. area. [295515] The MHRA completed its last review of the licensing Dawn Primarolo: Information on looked-after children arrangements for pharmaceutical manufacturers and can be found in our publication “Children looked after wholesale distributors of medicines for human use in in England (including adoption and care leavers) year October 2005. ending 31 March 2008”, which is available on the A further review of the supply chain for medicines in Department’s website at: the UK is currently being conducted. http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000810/ index.shtml Sedation Table LAE1, which is located within the third set of additional excel tables, gives a breakdown, by local Dr. Iddon: To ask the Secretary of State for Health authority, of the number of looked-after children who (1) what guidelines the NHS issues on the use of were adopted during the years ending 31 March 2004 to continuous deep sedation until death; [296149] 2008. Information for the year ending 31 March 2009 (2) what assessment he has made of the rate of will be published in December. prevalence of continuous deep sedation until death in Our publication covers only looked-after children England; what information he holds for benchmarking who were adopted. Information for all children that purposes on the rates in other EU member states; and were adopted in England and Wales is published by the if he will make a statement. [296150] Office for National Statistics and is available from their website at: Gillian Merron: No central guidance on the use of sufficient medication to keep a patient sedated until http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/Product. asp?vlnk=15049 their death, known as continuous deep sedation, has BECTA: Finance been issued. This is a matter for the relevant clinicians, using their professional judgment and taking into account the circumstances and wishes of the individual patient Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, or, where a patient is considered incapable of decision- Schools and Families how much funding his making, the views of the patient’s family on what he or Department plans to provide to BECTA in each year she would wish. Data on the prevalence of continuous for which figures are available; and if he will make a deep sedation in England, or in other European Union statement. [293409] member states, are not held centrally. Ms Diana R. Johnson: I can confirm, in the following Social Services: Birmingham table, the details of the funding plans for the British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta)/(Technologies Future Unit). The data are drawn Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for from our Departmental Annual Report 2009, Table 8.4 Health how many elderly people in (a) Birmingham, on page 175. Northfield constituency and (b) Birmingham pay for social care services at home. [296274] Departmental allocation (£ million) Phil Hope: This information is not collected centrally. However, where Birmingham city council has arranged 2009-10 Plans 51 home care for people it should be able to say how many 2010-11 Plans 20 of them it charges. Children: Day Care

Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES Children, Schools and Families what assessment he has made of the number of committees registered with Academies: Sponsorship Ofsted for the provision of daycare and early years foundation stage on non-domestic premises which are Mr. Gibb: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, composed mainly or exclusively of parents. [295564] Schools and Families how many academy funding agreements entered into since 2007 have local Dawn Primarolo: This is a matter for Ofsted. The authorities, schools, further education colleges or a Chief Inspector, Christine Gilbert, will write to the hon. partnership of such bodies acting as a sponsor or Member and copies of her reply will be placed in the co-sponsor. [296147] Libraries. 587W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 588W

Letter from Christine Gilbert, dated 23 October 2009: We are on track to achieve our target of at least 3,500 Your recent parliamentary questions have been passed to me, Sure Start Children’s Centres by March 2010, offering as Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector, for a response. access to services for all children under five and their Although Ofsted does hold data about childcare on non-domestic families. As of 31 August 2009 there were 3,059 centres premises run by a committee, these records do not state whether a operational in England, providing access to services for committee is mainly or exclusively run by parents. It is, therefore, over 2.4 million children and their families. not possible to provide the requested information. A copy of this reply has been sent to the Rt Hon Dawn Primarolo MP, Minister of State for Children, Young People and Families, and will be placed in the library of both Houses. Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how much his Children: Human Trafficking Department has spent on Sure Start Children’s Centres in (a) Derbyshire and (b) North East Derbyshire Mr. Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, constituency since the programme’s inception. [296068] Schools and Families what recent discussions he has had with local authorities on their provision of support for vulnerable children suspected of having been Dawn Primarolo: Funding for Sure Start Children’s trafficked under (a) section 20 and (b) section 17 of Centres in Derbyshire and North East Derbyshire is the Children Act 1989; and if he will make a statement. provided to Derbyshire local authority as part of the [291034] Sure Start Early Years and Childcare Grant (SSEYCG). The local authority is responsible for managing Sure Dawn Primarolo [holding answer 14 September 2009]: Start Children’s Centres performance across its area My noble Friend, Baroness Morgan of Drefelin, met and will decide how much to allocate to centres in each officials from the London borough of Hillingdon in area. March this year to discuss work they are undertaking on child trafficking at Heathrow airport in partnership The following table shows the spend on Children’s with the Metropolitan police. She is also a member of Centres and Sure Start Local Programmes (SSLPs) by the Inter Ministerial Group on Human Trafficking, Derbyshire local authority since the start of the programme. which meets regularly to discuss such issues. It is for The Department will not receive audited figures for each local authority to shape the services they provide 2008-09 until the end of October 2009. to meet the needs of their local population. Where a local authority identifies a child who requires support, £ including those that have been trafficked, they are then Children’s responsible for identifying appropriate services to meet centres Children’s their needs, including being kept safe from any likely revenue centres capital SSLP revenue significant harm. 2003-04 0 0 3,028,718 Children: Protection 2004-05 100,580 4,901 3,483,649 2005-06 1n/a 2,670,630 3,564,598 Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for 2006-07 1n/a 1,064,208 1n/a Children, Schools and Families whether (a) school 2007-08 1n/a 2,662,713 1n/a governors and (b) members of management 1 In 2005-06, 2006-07 and 2007-08 Derbyshire local authority chose to committees at early years childcare providers are pool its revenue funding in a Local Area Agreement (LAA) which was subject to the requirement to register with (i) the paid by the Department for Communities and Local Government Independent Safeguarding Authority and (ii) the (CLG, formerly the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister, ODPM) as vetting and barring scheme. [295557] part of the LAA grant revenue. This funding was not ring fenced to SureStart activities; Derbyshire local authority had the freedom to spend the funding pooled in its Local Area Agreement in line with Dawn Primarolo: Both school governors and members local priorities. The authority was not required to report details of its of management committees at early year’s child care spend of Sure Start revenue to the Department. providers are covered by the vetting and barring scheme and will have to register with the Independent Safeguarding Derbyshire local authority will hold full records of its Authority when the requirements for registration are Children’s Centres and SSLP spend. brought into force. SSLPs were given multi year capital allocations from Children’s Centres: Derbyshire programme inception to the end of 2005-06. Therefore it is not possible to disaggregate allocations by financial Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for year. Derbyshire received a capital allocation of £4,872,260 Children, Schools and Families how many (a) Sure and spent £4,686,552 for the life of the programme. Start and (b) Children’s Centres have been opened in (i) Derbyshire and (ii) North East Derbyshire From 2004-05 revenue funding for Children’s centres constituency since 1997. [296067] was included within the wider SSEYCG Main Revenue block. Children’s Centres capital funding was ring fenced Dawn Primarolo: Derbyshire local authority has 46 in 2004-6 but from 2006-07 was included in the wider Sure Start Children’s Centres of which 11 are recorded SSEYCG Main Capital block. Funding in these blocks as former Sure Start Local Programmes. Of these 46 is not ring fenced and the authority had the freedom to children’s centres, five are in the North East Derbyshire decide how much to spend on each area supported by constituency, of which one is recorded as a former Sure the grant, in line with local priorities. these allocations Start Local Programme. are shown in the following table. 589W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 590W

£ 2003-04 2004-061 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

Children’s centres capital 0 3,193,965 n/a n/a n/a n/a Main capital (from 2006-07) n/a n/a 3,893,683 2,953,740 8,022,534 4,728,377 Main revenue (from 2004-05) n/a 9,066,052 7,441,069 8,674,060 12,359,727 14,015,139 SSLP revenue 3,047,059 7,073,123 3,565,646 2,953,740 2,818,688 2,389,285 1 In 2004-06 local authorities received a two year allocation for the Sure Start Grant. Therefore it has not been possible to disaggregate the allocations for 2004-05 and 2005-06.

Christmas Ms Diana R. Johnson: The requested information can be provided only at disproportionate cost. Mr. Prisk: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, The latest available information on class sizes can be Schools and Families how many Christmas functions found in the SFR “Schools, Pupils and Their arranged by his Department (a) he and (b) officials of Characteristics: January 2009” at: his Department (i) hosted and (ii) attended in 2008; http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000843/ what the cost to the public purse was; and if he will index.shtml make a statement. [295455] Classroom Assistants: Derbyshire Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Secretary of State for the Department for Children, Schools and families (DCSF) Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for hosted two Christmas functions in 2008. The cost of Children, Schools and Families how many teaching these events was approximately £2,136. This information assistants have been appointed in (a) Derbyshire and was also published on 13 October 2009, Official Report, (b) North East Derbyshire constituency since 1997. column 15WS. [296069] Information on events hosted or attended by DCSF officials is not readily available and gathering this Mr. Coaker: Information on the number of teaching information would be at a disproportionate cost. assistant appointments is not collected centrally. Figures All spending on official entertainment is made in are however available for the number in service. The accordance with the principles set out in “Managing following table shows the number of teaching assistants public Money”. in service in local authority maintained schools in Derbyshire local authority and North East Derbyshire constituency in January 1997 and 2009. Class Sizes Full-time equivalent teaching assistants in local authority maintained schools1, years January 1997 and 2009: Coverage: Derbyshire local Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for authorities2 and North East Derbyshire parliamentary constituency Children, Schools and Families what the average size of 1997 2009 (a) primary and (b) secondary school classes was in (i) 1997, (ii) 2002, (iii) 2005 and (iv) the last year for which Former Derbyshire 1,180 — Derbyshire (post 1 April — 2,230 [295424] figures are available. 1997) City of Derby — 1,040 Mr. Coaker: The requested information is shown in North East Derbyshire 70 260 the table. 1 Excludes academies and city technology colleges. Maintained primary1 and state-funded secondary1, 2 schools: average 2 Derbyshire local authorities were re-organised with effect from 1 class size3, as at January each year, in England April 1997. The new authorities that make up the former Derbyshire area are shown for 2009. Primary State-funded Note: secondary Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 1997 27.5 21.6 Source: School Census 2002 26.3 21.9 2005 26.2 21.6 Climate Change: Teaching Aids 2009 26.2 20.6 1 Includes middle schools as deemed. 2 Includes CTCs and academies. Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for 3 One teacher classes as taught during a single selected period in each Children, Schools and Families what materials his school on the day of the census in January. Department provides to schools on the subject of the Source: environment and climate change. [295759] School Census. Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Department’s primary Class Sizes: East of England resource to support teaching about the environment and climate change is the Sustainable Schools website: Mr. Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for www.teachernet.gov.uk/sustainableschools Children, Schools and Families what the average (a) The website offers a wide variety of informative and middle school and (b) upper school class size has been engaging materials to aid schools in their teaching of in each constituency in the East of England in each sustainability issues within the curriculum, including year since 1999. [296164] the environment and climate change. 591W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 592W

The Qualifications and Curriculum Development Agency level of meaningful information we can provide and any has also published “Sustainable development in action: further breakdown of these figures would be on A curriculum planning guide for schools” which includes departmental account code basis. cross-curriculum dimensions, reflecting some of the major ideas and challenges facing society. Departmental Telephone Services In addition, through the Growing Schools programme, the Department has funded the Renewable World website: Mr. Oaten: To ask the Secretary of State for www.renewableworld.org.uk Children, Schools and Families how many helplines his Department operates; and how much his Department This is an innovative resource which allows pupils to and its predecessor has received from the operation of explore the use of renewable and non-renewable materials such helplines in each of the last three years. [294974] in the past, present and future. This helps them understand that many of our cheap, oil-based products come at a Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Department holds records high environmental cost, and to explore more sustainable centrally of 21 policy-specific helplines which it sponsors. options for the future. A full survey would be possible only at disproportionate Departmental Information Officers cost. The Department does not participate in revenue share Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, schemes associated with non-geographic telephone numbers Schools and Families how much his Department and (e.g. 0870) and therefore derives no revenue from their its predecessors spent on freelance press officers in each use. year since 2001; and if he will make a statement. Education: Finance [293395] Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Ms Diana R. Johnson: The information requested is Schools and Families how much his Department plans as follows: to spend on one-to-one tuition in (a) 2009-10 and (b) 2010-11; and if he will make a statement. [296263] £ Ms Diana R. Johnson: A total of £468 million funding 2001-02 1— has been set aside for one-to-one tuition over the CSR 2002-03 0 period. The one-to-one tuition funding is ring-fenced to 2003-04 0 local authorities (LAs) as part of the standards fund 2004-05 45,467 grant. 2005-06 57,624 In the spring and summer terms 2009 £15 million was 2006-07 117,981 provided for 36,000 tuition places in years five and six 2007-08 60,771 across all LAs. LAs reported that their schools delivered 2008-09 21,550 over 38,000 tuition places as part of this early roll out of 2009-10 0 the programme, with some LAs funding additional 1 No figures retained places from their own budgets. Departmental Manpower For the academic year 2009/10, £138 million will support 3.5 per cent. of the key stage 2, and key stage 3 (and in National Challenge schools key stage 4) cohorts Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for in each of English and mathematics. All LAs are now Children, Schools and Families how many civil working with their primary and secondary schools towards servants were employed by his Department on a delivering their full 2009/10 allocation of tuition places. permanent basis in each of the last 12 months. [295349] For 2010/11 funding rises to £315 million to support Ms Diana R. Johnson: Statistics on employee headcount 300,000 pupils in English and 300,000 children in and full-time equivalents (FTE) for the Department for mathematics. Allocations and funding for tuition places Children Schools and Families are published regularly in 2010/11 will be notified to LAs next month. through the Office for National Statistics website: Faith Schools: Finance http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/ Product.asp?vlnk=2899&Pos=&ColRank=1&Rank=422 Paul Holmes: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families what grants have been Departmental Public Expenditure made by his Department to independent faith schools in each of the last five years; which schools received Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for such grants; what the denomination was of each such Children, Schools and Families pursuant to the answer school; and against what criteria determinations of of 15 October 2009, Official Report, column 1094W, on such grants were made. [296533] departmental public expenditure, which individual programmes and corresponding allocations for 2010-11 Ms Diana R. Johnson: This question can be answered are aggregated under each of the entries listed in the only at disproportionate expense. tables. [295507] Family Intervention Projects: Derbyshire

Ms Diana R. Johnson [holding answer 26 October Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for 2009]: The reply given on 15 October 2009, Official Children, Schools and Families how many family Report, column 1095W, was already a breakdown of intervention projects there have been in (a) Derbyshire allocation on programme line basis. This is the lowest and (b) North East Derbyshire constituency. [295309] 593W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 594W

Dawn Primarolo: There are two family intervention GCSE: Disadvantaged projects in Derbyshire. One of these serves North East Derbyshire constituency. Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how many pupils Family Intervention Projects: Finance eligible for free school meals did not obtainaCgrade or above in (a) any GCSE, (b) mathematics GCSE Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for and (c) English GCSE in 2009. [295291] Children, Schools and Families how much funding from the public purse has been allocated to family Mr. Coaker: Information on GCSE attainment by intervention projects in each of the next three years. pupil characteristics for the 2008/09 academic year is not yet available. The first results from this data will be [294428] published in December 2009. Dawn Primarolo: The Government allocated £35.5 GCSE: Enfield million for family intervention projects in 2009-10 and are planning to allocate £57.1 million Government funding Joan Ryan: To ask the Secretary of State for in 2010-11, an increase of 61 per cent. In addition there Children, Schools and Families how many children at is anticipated match funding of £9.5 million from Registered schools in Enfield North constituency obtained five or Social Landlords, Housing Associations and Youth more GCSEs at grades A* to C or equivalent in each Offending Teams. Departmental budgets, and therefore year since 1997. [294196] the funding for Family Intervention Projects, have yet to be determined beyond March 2011. Decisions will be Mr. Coaker: The information requested is given in made following Spending Review discussions once the the table. Data for 2009 is not provided because the Department’s settlement is agreed. Department does not publish results below local authority level until it has been checked by schools. This data will GCSE be available after the publication of the Achievement and Attainment Tables in mid January. Mr. Gibb: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Pupils at the end of Key Stage 4 in maintained schools in North Schools and Families with reference to the answer of Enfield constituency achieving five or more GCSEs or equivalent1 at 21 July 2008, Official Report, column 929W, on grades A*-C, 1996/07 to 2007/082 children: disadvantaged, how many and what Number of pupils Percentage of pupils proportion of (a) all pupils and (b) pupils eligible to achieving five or achieving five or receive free school meals did not attain a GCSE at a more GCSEs at more GCSEs at grades A*-C grades A*-C grade higher thanaDin2008. [286809] 2007/08 897 54.7 Mr. Coaker: 126,868 pupils did not attain a GCSE at 2006/07 830 52.4 a grade higher thanaDin2007/08. This represents 21.3 2005/06 796 51.0 per cent. of pupils at the end of key stage 4 in maintained 2004/05 795 51.7 schools. 2003/04 774 49.5 31,644 pupils eligible to receive free school meals did 2002/03 745 48.7 not attain a GCSE at a grade higher thanaDin 2001/02 678 43.9 2007/08. This represents 42.4 per cent. of eligible pupils 2000/01 681 43.9 at the end of key stage 4 in maintained schools. 1999/2000 612 40.9 Note: 1998/99 641 44.1 Other equivalent qualifications to GCSEs are not included in this 1997/98 528 37.3 answer. Only full GCSEs (including double awards) have been 1996/97 562 38.4 considered. 1 From 1997/98 includes GNVQ equivalences and from 2003/04 other equivalences approved for use pre-16. Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, 2 Figures for 2005/06 onwards are based on pupils at the end of Key Schools and Families how many pupils (a) eligible and Stage 4. Data for previous years are based on pupils aged 15 years old (b) ineligible for free school meals did not sit GCSE at the start of the academic year. examinations in five or more subjects in (i) 2008, (ii) Gifted Children: Leeds 2007, (iii) 2006 and (iv) 2005. [287530] John Battle: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Coaker: The information requested is given in Children, Schools and Families what percentage of the following table. pupils in Leeds West constituency have participated in gifted and talented programmes in the last academic Pupils at the end of key stage 4 who did not sit GCSE or equivalent examinations in five or more subjects year. [295348] FSM pupils Non-FSM pupils Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Department does not Number Percentage Number Percentage collect data on which pupils in schools are on gifted and 2005 10,950 13.8 23,829 4.8 talented programmes. Through the school census, schools 2006 10,911 14.0 25,456 4.9 are asked to confirm the number of gifted and talented 2007 10,569 13.8 26,203 5.0 pupils they have identified. According to the January 2008 8,704 11.7 21,716 4.2 2009 census, 663 (9.8 per cent.) of pupils in maintained Note: primary schools and 372 (10.1 per cent.) of pupils in These figures have been derived from the National Pupil Database maintained secondary schools were identified as gifted and cover pupils at the end of key stage 4 in maintained schools only. and talented in the Leeds West constituency. 595W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 596W

Headteachers Mainstream maintained schools in which no pupil at the end of key stage 4 achieved a grade C or above in a modern foreign language GCSE Total Mr. Gibb: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools with more than 10 Schools with Schools and Families how many executive heads and pupils 1-10 pupils executive directors of secondary schools there are in attempting a attempting a England; and what the salary range is. [296145] modern modern foreign foreign language language GCSE GCSE Number Percentage Mr. Coaker: The term ’executive head’ is used to describe a variety of roles, including head teachers who 2005 3 59 62 2.0 are responsible and accountable for more than one 2006 1 76 77 2.5 school, either as a temporary or permanent arrangement, 2007 1 100 101 3.3 instead of there being a head teacher for each individual Source: school; or head teachers who are responsible and Achievement and Attainment Tables’ database. accountable for the day-to-day management of their In order to protect confidentiality, it would not be own schools but in addition provide a service to another possible to name schools with 10 or fewer pupils entering school. a modern foreign language GCSE. The term ″executive director″ is also used to describe Members: Correspondence a number of different roles such as an individual who is appointed across a number of schools, each of which Mr. Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for has its own head teacher and governing body responsible Children, Schools and Families when he will reply to and accountable for the day-to-day management of the hon. Member for Christchurch’s letter of 16 that school. September 2009 on the Mediabox project, The Because there is currently no common definition of Dreamwalkers. [296420] ″executive head″ or ″executive director″, no figures are available on the numbers of posts that are being described Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Department has no record in this way. of that letter being received. If the hon. Member forwards a copy of the letter to the Department it will be answered Following the School Teacher’s Review Body’s (STRB) in line with Whitehall standards. recommendation that the Department should investigate and clarify the role and status of the various models of National Council for Educational Excellence “executive head”, research has been commissioned to define and evaluate these models. The results of the Mr. Gibb: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, research will feed into a future remit to the STRB which Schools and Families how many times the National will focus on long term leadership pay arrangements Council for Educational Excellence has met since that take full account of the emerging models of school 1 January 2009; and which Ministers attended those leadership. meetings. [296146] Interim changes were introduced into the STPCD from September 2009 to reflect emerging leadership Mr. Coaker: There was one meeting of the full National models, including recognition for heads who become Council for Educational Excellence on 16 July 2009 at responsible for running more than one school either on Acland Burghley School. I attended along with my a permanent or temporary basis. The provisions in the right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Children, STPCD provide for employers to determine a salary for Schools and Families, the Prime Minister, the Minister heads who take on responsibility for running more than of State for Higher Education and Intellectual Property one school that is above the top of the leadership pay and my hon. Friend, the Under-Secretary of State for spine (£109,658 in Inner London and £102,734 elsewhere). 14-19 Reform and Apprenticeships. It is a matter for individual employers to determine the appropriate salary that takes account of the nature and Primary Education challenge of the responsibilities associated with running more than one school. Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how many pupils were being taught in primary schools with over 800 pupils in Languages: GCSE (a) 1997 and (b) 2009. [295290]

Mr. Coaker: In 1997 there were 9,266 sole registered Mr. Gibb: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, pupils (headcount) being taught in primary schools Schools and Families at how many and what with over 800 pupils. The equivalent figure for 2009 is proportion of maintained mainstream schools which 14,127 pupils. Information is sourced from the school offered modern language GCSEs no pupil received a census. GCSE in a modern language at grades A* to C in (a) 2005, (b) 2006 and (c) 2007. [286805] Primary Education: Pupil Exclusions

Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Coaker: The Department does not hold information Children, Schools and Families how many and for what on which subjects are offered by schools. reasons primary school pupils of each age were given a The following table is based on exam entries, fixed-period exclusion in 2007-08. [293359] 597W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 598W

Mr. Coaker: Information on the number of fixed Pupils can be excluded more than once, and each period exclusions from primary schools by age and exclusion can be for a different reason, therefore the reason for exclusion, and the number of pupils excluded number of exclusions by reason for pupils cannot be by age, is shown in the table. calculated.

Primary schools1: Number of fixed period exclusions by age and reason for exclusion, and the number of times pupil enrolments2 were excluded by age3, England 2007/08 Age2 345678 91011Total

Number of instances of exclusion (pupils can have multiple exclusions): Physical assault against 20 310 630 770 1,250 1,830 2,480 3,350 60 10,690 a pupil Physical assault against 10 520 1,120 1,160 1,160 1,120 1,060 910 20 7,090 an adult Verbal abuse/ 4— 30 60 120 240 400 620 850 20 2,330 threatening behaviour against a pupil Verbal abuse/ 4— 50 180 310 540 840 1,380 1,900 40 5,260 threatening behaviour against an adult Bullying 0 4— 20 20 40 50 120 220 10 460 Racist abuse 0 0 10 10 50 80 120 130 4— 390 Sexual misconduct 0 10 20 10 30 30 60 80 4— 240 Drug and alcohol 00004— 4—1020040 related Damage 0 10 30 50 120 140 220 290 10 860 Theft 0 4—10104050801304— 320 Persistent disruptive 4— 200 670 960 1,690 2,230 3,240 3,730 70 12,800 behaviour Other 4— 50 110 150 270 420 760 1,030 40 2,830 Total 40 1,190 2,850 3,570 5,420 7,190 10,140 12,620 280 43,290

Number of pupil 30 640 1,360 1,710 2,710 3,670 5,290 6,910 150 22,460 enrolments excluded2 1 Includes middle schools as deemed. 2 Pupils may be counted more than once if they were registered at more than one school or moved schools during the year. 3 Age as at 31st August 2007. 4 Less than 5. Note: Figures have been rounded to the nearest 10. Source: School Census

Private Education: Per Capita Costs The latest available information on absence where the reason code is illness (not medical or dental) is available Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, in the SFR ‘Pupil Absence in Schools in England: Schools and Families what his most recent estimate is Autumn Term 2008 and Spring Term 2009’ at: of the average annual sum spent per pupil in the private http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000882/ educational sector; and if he will make a statement. index.shtml [295243] The latest available figures for a full year are available Mr. Coaker: The Department does not collect data in the SFR ‘Pupil Absence in Schools in England, from the independent sector. However, the hon. Member including Pupil Characteristics: 2007/08’ at: for Yeovil may be interested to know that the Independent http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000832/ Schools Council (ISC) conducts an annual census and index.shtml information for independent day school fees can be found on their website on: Pupils: Disadvantaged http://www.isc.co.uk/ Pupils: Absenteeism Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how many and what proportion Dr. Kumar: To ask the Secretary of State for of pupils in each local education authority area are Children, Schools and Families how many children entitled to free school meals; and if he will make a have had one or more periods of absence from school statement. [295241] for more than a week due to serious illness in (a) England, (b) the North East, (c) the Tees Valley and Ms Diana R. Johnson: The requested information on (d) Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland free school meals is published as part of the Schools, constituency since 1999. [296364] Pupils and their Characteristics SFR: January 2009, at: Mr. Coaker: Information is not available in the form http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000843/ requested. index.shtml 599W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 600W

The data regarding nursery and primary schools is England at key stage (a) 1, (b) 2 and (c) 3 in each year contained in Table 11a, the data for State-funded Secondary since 1999. [296167] schools is in Table 11b and the data for Special schools is in Table 11c. Mr. Coaker: Information on pupil to teacher ratios (PTR) by key stage is not collected centrally. Figures are however available for the within school PTR by phase Pupils: East of England of education. The following table shows the number of pupil to teacher ratios in local authority maintained Mr. Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, nursery, primary and secondary schools in each local Schools and Families what the pupil to teacher ratio has authority within the east of England Government office been in each local education authority in the East of region, January 1997 to 2009.

Within school pupil:teacher ratios1 in local authority maintained nursery, primary and secondary schools2. Years: January 1997 to 2009. Coverage: Local authorities in the East of England 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009

Nursery Former 19.1 18.7 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Cambridgeshire Cambridgeshire n/a n/a 16.3 17.9 16.3 13.9 13.6 13.2 13.9 14.4 13.5 12.5 13.7 (post 1 April 1998) Peterborough n/a n/a 20.9 15.1 20.0 16.0 14.7 11.4 11.6 13.0 14.6 14.7 18.0 Norfolk 19.1 18.7 24.5 — 17.3 15.6 13.6 12.2 14.5 11.9 13.1 13.5 15.3 Suffolk 22.9 22.9 22.9 19.1 22.9 23.4 23.4 23.2 21.5 21.5 21.6 20.9 19.0 Former 19.0 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Bedfordshire Bedfordshire (post n/a 18.6 17.9 16.0 16.3 15.9 17.1 16.8 18.7 16.2 18.5 16.9 15.6 1 April 1997) Luton n/a 22.8 20.1 — 15.8 15.4 14.1 14.6 14.4 12.8 13.1 13.7 14.5 Former Essex 18.6 17.3 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Essex (post n/a n/a 16.6 19.5 15.1 14.8 14.8 14.8 14.8 14.7 14.5 14.3 14.6 1 April 1998) Southend-on-Sea n/a n/a — 19.4 ———————— — Thurrock n/a n/a — 23.9 ———————— — Hertfordshire 18.4 18.1 19.4 16.1 18.3 16.6 16.9 17.3 17.2 18.4 16.9 16.6 16.2 East of England 18.8 19.0 19.0 17.8 17.0 15.8 15.6 15.3 15.9 15.3 15.4 15.1 15.4

Primary Former 24.4 24.9 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Cambridgeshire Cambridgeshire n/a n/a 25.0 23.5 24.1 23.3 23.7 23.6 23.6 22.9 22.2 22.5 22.3 (post 1 April 1998) Peterborough n/a n/a 24.2 23.2 23.0 22.9 23.1 23.2 22.5 21.9 21.8 22.0 21.5 Norfolk 22.3 22.5 22.7 22.8 22.1 23.0 21.7 22.3 22.1 21.3 21.1 21.4 20.8 Suffolk 22.3 22.2 22.0 22.7 22.0 21.5 21.7 21.7 21.5 21.1 20.7 20.1 20.0 Former 23.3 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Bedfordshire Bedfordshire (post n/a 23.8 23.8 22.3 22.9 22.3 22.6 22.8 23.0 22.2 22.1 21.5 21.5 1 April 1997 Luton n/a 22.7 22.6 23.4 22.9 22.7 23.5 23.5 23.4 23.6 22.8 22.1 21.5 Former Essex 23.0 23.5 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Essex (post n/a n/a 23.5 23.2 22.9 22.8 23.0 23.2 22.9 22.5 22.4 21.9 21.8 1 April 1998) Southend-on-Sea n/a n/a 24.0 23.2 23.5 23.0 23.3 22.8 23.0 22.2 22.1 21.2 21.6 Thurrock n/a n/a 23.9 22.1 22.8 21.8 23.6 24.9 25.0 23.3 22.8 23.1 22.4 Hertfordshire 22.9 23.0 23.0 24.6 23.0 22.8 23.0 23.0 22.5 22.4 23.2 22.7 22.6 East of England 23.0 23.3 23.3 23.1 22.8 22.7 22.8 22.9 22.7 22.2 22.1 21.9 21.7

Secondary Former 17.4 17.5 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Cambridgeshire Cambridgeshire n/a n/a 18.1 18.7 18.7 18.1 18.2 18.7 18.3 18.2 18.3 17.5 17.2 (post 1 April 1998) Peterborough n/a n/a 16.7 17.2 17.2 17.3 17.4 17.0 16.9 16.5 16.5 16.6 16.5 Norfolk 15.7 16.1 16.2 18.5 16.9 17.5 17.1 17.3 17.6 17.0 17.2 17.3 17.1 Suffolk 16.6 16.5 16.6 16.6 17.1 16.9 16.9 17.2 17.0 17.2 17.0 16.6 16.5 Former 17.8 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Bedfordshire 601W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 602W

Within school pupil:teacher ratios1 in local authority maintained nursery, primary and secondary schools2. Years: January 1997 to 2009. Coverage: Local authorities in the East of England 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009

Bedfordshire (post n/a 18.3 18.5 17.3 18.8 18.4 18.7 18.4 18.7 18.3 18.0 18.0 17.3 1 April 1997 Luton n/a 16.7 16.9 16.9 17.9 18.0 17.9 17.7 18.5 17.8 18.6 17.8 16.7 Former Essex 16.6 16.7 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Essex (post n/a n/a 16.8 17.1 17.5 17.5 17.6 18.0 17.4 17.3 17.3 16.8 16.4 1 April 1998) Southend-on-Sea n/a n/a 16.4 16.6 16.8 17.2 17.3 17.7 17.9 18.2 18.2 17.6 17.5 Thurrock n/a n/a 18.0 16.9 18.9 19.8 19.8 20.8 19.9 18.7 19.0 19.2 19.1 Hertfordshire 15.9 16.1 16.3 18.7 16.7 16.8 17.0 17.1 16.8 16.7 16.4 16.3 16.0 East of England 16.6 16.7 16.9 17.2 17.4 17.5 17.5 17.7 17.5 17.3 17.2 17.0 16.7 n/a = Not applicable ‘—’ = Negligible 1 The within school PTRis calculated by dividing the total FTE number of pupils on roll in schools by the total FTE number of qualified teachers regularly employed in schools. 2 Excludes academies and city technology colleges. Note: For statistical purposes only, pupils who do not attend both morning and afternoon at least five days a week are regarded as part-time. Each part-time pupil is treated as 0.5 FTE. Source: School Census

Pupils: Per Capita Costs Mr. Coaker: Per pupil revenue funding figures for pupils aged three to 19 for local authorities in the East Mr. Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, of England between 1999-2000 and 2005-06 are shown Schools and Families how much his Department plans in table 1. These figures are in real terms and are based to spend per school pupil in each local education authority on financial years. in the East of England in 2009-10; and how much has been spent in each such authority in each academic year since 1999-2000. [296166]

Table 1: Local authority revenue funding per pupil £ 1999-2000 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06

Bedfordshire 3,360 3,660 3,860 3,980 4,040 4,200 4,410 Cambridgeshire 3,260 3,480 3,610 3,700 3,890 4,050 4,260 Essex 3,450 3,710 3,890 3,980 4,090 4,250 4,430 Hertfordshire 3,440 3,690 3,870 3,970 4,050 4,210 4,370 Luton 3,720 3,970 4,180 4,310 4,500 4,650 4,900 Norfolk 3,360 3,620 3,800 3,900 3,990 4,160 4,360 Peterborough 3,530 3,770 3,920 4,080 4,290 4,500 4,720 Southend-on-Sea 3,550 3,810 4,020 4,130 4,200 4,370 4,560 Suffolk 3,260 3,500 3,660 3,760 3,840 4,000 4,190 Thurrock 3,630 3,870 4,090 4,210 4,330 4,530 4,650 Notes: 1. Price Base: Real terms at 2008-09 prices, based on GDP deflators as at 29 September 2009. 2. Figures reflect relevant sub-blocks of standard spending assessment/education formula spending (EFS) settlements and exclude the pensions transfer to EFS and LSC. 3. Total funding also includes all revenue grants in DFES departmental expenditure limits relevant to pupils aged three to 19 and exclude education maintenance allowances (EMAs) and grants not allocated at LEA level. For those authorities in receipt of advance of grant under the transitional support arrangements for 2004-05, advance grant funding is included in the year of payment (2004-05). There will be a consequential reduction in DFES grant for these LEAs in future years (either 2006-07 and 2007-08 or 2006-07 to 2008-09, depending on the terms on which the advance was given to the LEA). 4. The pupil numbers used to convert £ million figures to £ per pupil are those underlying the SSA/EFS settlement calculations plus PLASC three-year-old maintained pupils and estimated three to four-year-olds funded through state support in maintained and other educational institutions where these are not included in the SSA pupil numbers. 5. Rounding: Figures are rounded to the nearest £10. 6. Status: Some of the grant allocations have not been finalised. If these do change, the effect on the funding figures is expected to be minimal.

The revenue per pupil figures shown in table 2 is previous spending. In addition, the DSG has a different taken from the dedicated schools grant (DSG). They coverage to EFS. EFS comprised a schools block and are not comparable with those for the years 1997-98 to an LEA block (to cover LEA central functions) whereas 2005-06 (in table 1 above) because the introduction of DSG only covers the school block. LEA block items are the DSG in 2006-07 fundamentally changed how local still funded through DCLG’s Local Government Finance authorities are funded. Settlement but education items cannot be separately identified. Consequently, there is a break in the The 1997-98 to 2005-06 figures are based on education Department’s time series as the two sets of data are not formula spending (EFS) which formed the education comparable. part of the Local Government Finance Settlement, plus various grants. This was an assessment of what local To provide a comparison for 2008-09 DSG, the authorities needed to fund education rather than what Department have isolated the schools block equivalent they spent. The DSG is based largely on an authority’s funding in 2005-06 (the baseline); as described above 603W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 604W this does not represent the totality of ‘education’ funding local authority in 2004-05 and 2005-06 are as follows. in that year. The per pupil revenue funding figures for These figures are in real terms. 2005-06 to 2008-09 (in financial years) for local authorities Real terms revenue funding per pupil: EFS plus grants in the East of England are provided in table 2. The £ figures are for all funded pupils aged three to19 and are 2004-05 2005-06 in real terms. Primary Secondary Primary Table 2 (aged (aged (aged Secondary 3-10) 11-15) 3-10) (aged 11-15) £ 2005-06 DSG 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 Birmingham 4,250 5,430 4,570 5,760 (baseline) DSG plus DSG plus DSG plus local authority plus grants grants per grants per grants per Notes: per pupil pupil pupil pupil 1. Price base: Real terms at 2008-09 prices, based on GDP deflators as at 29 September 2009. Bedfordshire 3,970 4,100 4,260 4,320 2. Figures reflect relevant sub-blocks of education formula spending (EFS) Cambridgeshire 3,950 4,070 4,210 4,280 settlements and include the pensions transfer to EFS. Essex 4,130 4,240 4,390 4,450 3. Total funding also includes all revenue grants in DfES departmental expenditure limits relevant to pupils aged three to 15 and exclude education maintenance Hertfordshire 4,160 4,250 4,390 4,500 allowances (EMAs) and grants not allocated at LEA level. Luton 4,540 4,730 4,920 4,960 4. The pupil numbers used to convert £ million figures to £ per pupil are those Norfolk 4,110 4,210 4,360 4,410 underlying the EFS settlement calculations. 5. Rounding: Figures are rounded to the nearest £10. Peterborough 4,410 4,550 4,700 4,790 Southend- 4,340 4,460 4,590 4,620 The revenue per pupil figures shown in the following on-Sea table are taken from the new dedicated schools grant Suffolk 3,970 4,100 4,260 4,320 (DSG). They are not comparable with those for the Thurrock 4,290 4,490 4,670 4,700 years 2004-05 to 2005-06 because the introduction of Notes: the DSG in 2006-07 fundamentally changed how local 1. This covers funding through the Dedicated schools grant, school standards authorities are funded. grant, school standards grant (personalisation) and standards fund as well as funding from the Learning and Skills Council; it excludes grants which are not The 2004-05 to 2005-06 figures are based on education allocated at LA level. 2. Price Base: Real terms at 2008-09 prices, based on GDP deflators as at 29 formula spending (EFS) which formed the education September 2009. part of the local government finance settlement, plus 3. These figures are for all funded pupils aged three to 19. various grants. This was an assessment of what local 4. Figures have been rounded to the nearest £10. 5. Some of the grant allocations have not been finalised. If these do change, the authorities needed to fund education rather than what effect on the funding figures is expected to be minimal. they spent. The DSG is based largely on an authority’s previous spending. In addition, the DSG has a different As the 2009-10 grant data that feeds into this series is coverage to EFS. EFS comprised a schools block and not yet finalised, comparable figures for 2009-10 are not an LEA block (to cover LEA central functions) whereas yet available. DSG only covers the school block. LEA block items are In order to provide a per pupil figure for 2009-10, the still funded through DCLG’s local government finance guaranteed unit of funding for local authorities in the settlement but education items cannot be separately east of England is provided in table 3. This does not identified. Consequently, there is a break in the include other grants such as standards fund grants and Department’s time series as the two sets of data are not LSC funding that is included above in tables 1 and 2, comparable. and only covers pupils aged three to 15. To provide a comparison for 2006-07 DSG, the Table 3: DSG guaranteed unit of funding Department have isolated the schools block equivalent 2009-10 £ funding in 2005-06; as described above, this does not represent the totality of ‘education’ funding in that Luton 4,402 year. Bedford Borough 3,998 Central Bedfordshire 3,938 The per pupil revenue funding figures for years 2005-06 Cambridgeshire 3,926 (baseline) to 2008-09 for Birmingham local authority Peterborough 4,246 are provided in the following table. As the DSG is a Essex 4,067 mechanism for distributing funding, a split between Southend-on-Sea 4,171 primary and secondary schools is not available. The Thurrock 4,291 following figures are for all funded pupils aged three to Hertfordshire 4,039 19 and are in real terms. Norfolk 3,945 Real terms revenue funding per pupil: DSG plus grants Suffolk 3,900 £ Note: 2005-06 This includes the two new authorities as of 2009-10: Bedford borough and (baseline) 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 central Bedfordshire. Birmingham 4,820 4,990 5,180 5,240 local authority Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for Notes: Children, Schools and Families what the per pupil 1. This covers funding through the dedicated schools grant, school standards grant, school standards grant (personalisation) and standards fund as well as funding for (a) primary and (b) secondary school funding from the Learning and Skills Council; it excludes grants which are not children in Birmingham was in each of the last five allocated at LA level. years. [296204] 2. Price base: Real terms at 2008-09 prices, based on GDP deflators as at 29 September 2009. 3. These figures are for all funded pupils aged three to 19. 4. Figures have been rounded to the nearest £10. Mr. Coaker: The per pupil revenue funding figures 5. Some of the grant allocations have not been finalised. If these do change, the for primary and secondary school pupils for Birmingham effect on the funding figures is expected to be minimal. 605W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 606W

Pupils: Special Educational Needs refurbishment in (i) Derbyshire and (ii) North East Derbyshire constituency since 1997. [296066] Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how many pupils with Mr. Coaker: Capital allocations are made on a local special educational needs there were in each year since authority basis, and are then prioritised locally. Similarly, 1997. [296258] local authorities determine the relative spend on primary and secondary schools. Accordingly, there is no central Mr. Coaker: The information requested on pupils record of spend for North East Derbyshire, or of the with special educational needs is published annually by split between primary and secondary schools. my Department. School capital allocations to Derbyshire for school Figures for 2005 to 2009 were published in the Statistical improvement, during the 14 year period 1996-97 to First Release “Special Educational Needs in England: 2009-10, total £633 million. The local authority will January 2009”, which can be accessed at (tables 1a also have spent revenue funding on those elements of and 1b): refurbishment that are of a revenue nature. The total referred to above includes an allocation of nearly £115 http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000852/ index.shtml million for the Building Schools for the Future programme. Figures for 2003 and 2004 were published in the Schools: Finance Statistical First Release “Special Educational Needs in England: January 2007”, which can be accessed at Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, (tables 1a and 1b): Schools and Families what proportion of his http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000732/ Department’s budget was allocated directly by his index.shtml Department and not devolved to schools or local Figures for 1997 to 2002 were published in the Statistical authorities in 2008-09; and if he will make a statement. Bulletin “Special Educational Needs in England: January [293399] 2002”, which can be accessed at (tables 1a and 1b): http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SBU/b000367/ Ms Diana R. Johnson: The proportion of our budget index.shtml allocated directly by the Department and not devolved to schools or local authorities in 2008-09 is set out in Schools: Admissions the following table.

Mr. Randall: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Percentage Schools and Families what account he has taken of the most recent population projections provided by the Youth Taskforce 13.66 Office of National Statistics in assessing the adequacy 14-19 Reform Group 0.01 of provision of school places at reception and year 1 in Sure start 0.46 (a) the academic year beginning September 2009 and Early YearsExtended Schools and 0.10 Special Needs Group (b) each of the next 10 years. [296128] Families 0.37 Mr. Coaker: Central Government funding to support Safeguarding 0.07 local provision of school places is decided some time in Supporting Delivery 0.15 advance, partly because of the time needed for the School Standards 1.23 building of new capacity and partly to respond to local School Resources 3.91 authorities’ longstanding plea for a degree of funding Academies and Capital 0.13 certainty.So the central Government decisions on allocating Workforce Strategy 0.02 capital funding for school places in 2009, 2010 and 2011 Support directorates 0.20 were made some time ago, using pupil number forecasts School Performance and Reform 0.01 provided to my Department from local authorities. Total 20.32 Over the last few months, it has become clear that in some localities the rise in child population has been Schools: Hearing Impaired steeper than had been allowed for. So on 15 July, we announced an allocation of £200 million for authorities Lynne Featherstone: To ask the Secretary of State for which are experiencing and forecasting exceptionally Children, Schools and Families what assessment he has high rates of growth in demand for reception places to made of the level of compliance of schools with the 2011, to support the provision of permanent places acoustic requirements of deaf and hard of hearing where there is greatest need. DCSF is currently appraising pupils in classrooms; and if he will make a statement. applications and aims to make an announcement shortly. [295669] We are about to begin work with authorities on the design of our future approach to deploying capital Ms Diana R. Johnson: We are working closely with support to local authorities. That work will draw on the the National Deaf Children’s Society (NDCS) who latest Office for National Statistics (ONS) projections. have collated information from local authorities on acoustic conditions in classrooms, to help ensure that Schools: Derbyshire the needs of children who are deaf or hard of hearing are met. Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for As a result of this work, acoustics testing will now be Children, Schools and Families how much has been made a contractual requirement for all Building Schools spent on (a) primary and (b) secondary school for the Future (BSF) projects in England. This means 607W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 608W that no funding will be signed off for a BSF project Schools: Standards without a commitment to having the £6,000 acoustic test. More information on our proposals can be found John Battle: To ask the Secretary of State for in the written ministerial statement of 16 October 2009, Children, Schools and Families what proportion of (a) Official Report, columns 51-52WS on auditory standards all schools and (b) Catholic schools Ofsted rated as for school buildings, laid by the Parliamentary under- excellent or very good against its respect for others Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families: measure on the latest date for which figures are http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200809/ldhansrd/ available. [293956] text/91019wms000l.htm#0910193000049 The Department does not assess schools’ level of Mr. Coaker: This is a matter for Ofsted. HM chief compliance with acoustic requirements of deaf and inspector, Christine Gilbert, has written to my right hard of hearing pupils centrally. hon. Friend and a copy of her reply has been placed in Schools: Inspections the Libraries. Letter from Christine Gilbert, dated 23 October 2009: Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Your recent parliamentary question has been passed to me, as Children, Schools and Families if he will place in the Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector, for response. Library a copy of the 2005 Ofsted Framework for Ofsted does not have a judgement which relates directly to Inspecting Maintained Schools in England. [295566] ‘respect for others’. The inspection judgement that most closely approximates to ‘respect for others’ is ‘The extent of learners’ Mr. Coaker: A copy of the July 2005 version of the spiritual, moral, social and cultural development’. In forming the “Framework for the inspection of schools in England judgement, inspectors take account of: from September 2005” has been placed in the Libraries. Learners’ response to spiritual and moral issues, such as their attitudes to bullying, and their effective discussion in lessons Schools: Mental Health the quality of learners’ social development as expressed through their relationships with their peers and with adults Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families what strategies his learners’ understanding of Britain as a diverse society and their readiness to engage with others from a different cultural Department has considered to raise awareness of background mental health issues in schools. [296490] the extent to which they embrace the shared values of the Dawn Primarolo: As the key universal service for community and contribute to its cohesiveness. children, schools play an important role in the promotion Under the school inspection frameworks used between January of better emotional health and resilience and early 2000 and August 2005 (commonly known as section 10), the intervention where mental health problems may arise. school’s overall effectiveness judgement was made using a seven point scale: excellent, very good, good, satisfactory, unsatisfactory, There are a number of programmes in schools that poor and very poor. From September 2005 to September 2009, increase awareness of mental health issues for children the overall effectiveness judgement was made under the school and young people. These include the Healthy Schools inspection framework commonly known as Section 5, using a Programme and Targeted Mental Health in Schools. four point scale: outstanding, good, satisfactory and inadequate. The Healthy Schools Programme requires schools to It is not possible to operate a simple read-across approach from have policies and practices in place to support emotional 2000 to the present, using these different systems. health and wellbeing, including identifying children The latest period for which published figures are available is at risk of experiencing behavioural, emotional or social the spring term 2008/09. This answer, therefore, takes into account difficulties. Currently 99 per cent. of schools in England all inspections carried out prior to 3 April 2009. At that time, there were still some schools that had not yet been inspected are working towards or have achieved Healthy School under the section 5 framework. status. For the purposes of answering this question, excellent or very The Targeted Mental Health in Schools (TaMHS) good are interpreted as being analogous to outstanding as defined programme is developing models of mental health support under the Section 5 inspection framework. in schools for those children, young people and their Of all the schools open on 4 April 2009 and having received an families who need it most. The project includes training Ofsted inspection, 35% were judged as outstanding under section for school staff to equip them with the knowledge and 5, or as excellent or very good under section 10, at their last ability to identify problems early, to work with and inspection in respect of ‘the extent of learners’ spiritual, moral, support children and young people at risk of experiencing social and cultural development’. mental health problems and to refer them to appropriate Of all Roman Catholic schools open on 4 April 2009 and mental health professionals, as necessary.It also provides having received an Ofsted inspection, 51% were judged as outstanding mental health awareness and promotion for children, under section 5, or as excellent or very good under section 10, at young people and families. Funded by £60 million between their last inspection in respect of ‘the extent of learners’ spiritual, 2008 and 2011, the programme is currently operating in moral, social and cultural development’. 80 local authorities. From September 2010 TaMHS will A copy of this reply has been sent to Vernon Coaker MP, be operating in clusters of schools in all areas. Minister of State for Schools and Learners, and placed in the library of both Houses. There are other school based programmes that also promote better emotional wellbeing. Social and Emotional Aspects of Learning (SEAL) is a comprehensive voluntary Schools: Uniforms programme to develop the social and emotional skills of all pupils, while the new personal wellbeing programme Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, of study within Personal, Social, Health and Economic Schools and Families which local authorities offer (PSHE) education includes a specific focus on issues grants to parents to purchase uniforms; and which relating to emotional wellbeing and mental health. local authorities offered such grants in 1997. [296135] 609W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 610W

Ms Diana R. Johnson: Local authorities have a Secondary Education discretionary power to provide school clothing grants or to help with the cost of school clothing in cases of Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for financial hardship. Local authorities that choose to Children, Schools and Families how many secondary offer such grants set their own criteria for eligibility. schools with more than (a) 500, (b) 1,000, (c) 1,500, The Department does not collect data on which local (d) 2,000 and (e) 2,500 pupils there were in (i) 1997 and authorities provide school clothing grants. (ii) 2009. [295289] Science: Teachers Mr. Coaker: The information requested is shown in the table. Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for State funded secondary schools: number of schools by size1, 2, 3, 4, January 1997 Children, Schools and Families what percentage of and 2009, England science teachers specialised in (a) physics, (b) chemistry Schools of size 1997 2009 and (c) biology in the latest year for which figures are More than 500 pupils 3,016 3,002 available. [288351] More than 1,000 pupils 1,155 1,494 More than 1,500 pupils 136 294 Mr. Coaker: The specialisms of science teachers in More than 2,000 pupils 6 26 maintained secondary schools in England were collected More than 2,500 pupils 0 3 as part of the Secondary School Curriculum and Staffing All state funded secondary 3,584 3,361 Survey. This is an occasional survey that does not schools provide a full time series. 1 Based on headcount of pupils, excludes dual registrations. 2 Includes middle schools as deemed. The following table gives data from the 2007 survey, 3 Includes CTCs and academies. the most recent survey available, for full-time equivalent 4 Schools are counted against each relevant row e.g. those in ‘more than 1,000’ are also in ‘more than 500’. teachers. It shows the percentage of science teachers Source: 1 who had a specialism in each science specialism and School Census. the percentages of occurrences for each specialism: Secondary Education: Milton Keynes 1 In this case, a specialism is any post A-level qualification (including degrees, BEds, PGCEs, Certificates in Education and Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for other post A-level qualifications) in one of Biology, Chemistry, Children, Schools and Families what assessment he has Physics and Other Science. made of trends in levels of applications to secondary Science teachers’ science specialisms, England, 2007 schools in the Milton Keynes area. [295618] Percentage of teachers Percentage of specialisms Ms Diana R. Johnson: Since 2008, local authorities Biology 40 32 have been required to provide data to the Secretary of Chemistry 27 22 State on secondary school offers made on the day that Physics 27 22 parents are notified of their school places. This year’s Other science 20 16 data were published on 12 March 2009 and can be Non-science subject 10 8 accessed in the SFR ‘Secondary School Applications Total 124 100 and Offers’ at: Note: http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/STR/d000833/ Base: 35,720 teachers and 44,022 cases of specialism index.shtml Source: Secondary School Curriculum and Staffing Survey, 2007 This year, figures for Milton Keynes local authority show that, of the 2,853 applications received from parents Some teachers had a qualification that covered more living within the local authority area, 87.3 per cent. than one science subject, so the teacher figures sum to were offered their first choice school and 97.5 per cent. more than 100 per cent. Teachers were only double were offered a place at one of their first three choices. counted if they held qualifications in more than one of the Biology, Chemistry and Physics specialisms, otherwise Special Educational Needs: East of England they were only included in one category. A teacher with more than one qualification in the same subject was Mr. Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for counted only once against that specialism. Children, Schools and Families how much funding has been allocated to special needs provision in each The second set of figures shows the percentage of county in the East of England in each year since 1999. specialisms. Where qualifications covered more than [296165] one science subject, equal weight was given to each subject when recalculating to sum to 100 per cent.. The Ms Diana R. Johnson: The available information on analysis did not take into account how many periods how much funding has been allocated to special needs were taught by a teacher, so the specialism of a teacher provision in each local authority in the east of England who taught one period of science was given an equal in each year since 1999 is contained within the following weight to a teacher who taught 20 periods of science. tables. Data are not available prior to 2000-01:

Budgeted net expenditure on the provision of education for children with special educational needs by local authorities in England since 2000-01

Budgeted net expenditure on the education of children with special educational needs (£)

Local authority name 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05

England 2,763,226,000 2,908,380,000 3,038,661,000 3,466,180,000 3,774,757,000 611W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 612W

Budgeted net expenditure on the provision of education for children with special educational needs by local authorities in England since 2000-01 Budgeted net expenditure on the education of children with special educational needs (£) Local authority name 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05

East of England GOR 262,754,000 281,293,000 296,178,000 339,448,000 371,652,000

Pre-LGR Bedfordshire 19,250,000 21,011,000 18,838,000 24,669,000 26,198,000 Bedford Borough Central Bedfordshire Cambridgeshire 31,017,000 33,352,000 36,290,000 44,958,000 42,980,000 Essex 62,904,000 68,285,000 69,328,000 75,876,000 81,359,000 Hertfordshire 54,162,000 56,668,000 55,427,000 63,654,000 71,970,000 Luton 9,136,000 9,321,000 14,765,000 15,673,000 17,867,000 Norfolk 34,824,000 37,782,000 38,304,000 42,233,000 44,946,000 Peterborough 12,325,000 13,410,000 14,787,000 16,936,000 18,620,000 Southend 8,867,000 10,222,000 10,653,000 13,096,000 15,107,000 Suffolk 22,845,000 23,452,000 29,012,000 32,374,000 41,529,000 Thurrock 7,425,000 7,788,000 8,774,000 9,979,000 11,076,000

Budgeted net expenditure on the education of children with special educational needs (£) Local authority name 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

England 4,120,549,000 4,481,245,000 4,863,604,000 5,094,462,000 5,188,035,000

East of England GOR 393,061,000 431,678,000 473,841,000 512,326,000 525,968,000

Pre-LGR Bedfordshire 27,455,000 31,224,000 32,013,000 32,719,000 — Bedford Borough ————12,814,000 Central Bedfordshire ————19,468,000 Cambridgeshire 45,120,000 47,217,000 48,756,000 51,210,000 49,710,000 Essex 87,946,000 96,982,000 103,046,000 126,001,000 131,637,000 Hertfordshire 75,794,000 79,344,000 87,928,000 93,423,000 95,860,000 Luton 17,431,000 21,541,000 23,164,000 22,377,000 22,466,000 Norfolk 48,604,000 51,472,000 60,953,000 69,471,000 71,983,000 Peterborough 20,337,000 23,188,000 24,838,000 23,747,000 24,273,000 Southend 15,810,000 19,076,000 21,469,000 21,455,000 23,113,000 Suffolk 43,991,000 50,159,000 57,750,000 58,210,000 55,134,000 Thurrock 10,574,000 11,475,000 13,926,000 13,712,000 19,509,000 Notes: 1. The data are drawn from local authorities Section 52 Budget Statements (Tables 1 and 2) submitted to the DCSF (formally the DfES). 2. Includes planned expenditure on the provision for pupils with statements and the provision for non-statemented pupils with SEN, support for inclusion, inter authority recoupment, fees for pupils at independent special schools and abroad, educational psychology service, local authority functions in relation to child protection, therapies and other health related services, parent partnership, guidance and information, the monitoring of SEN provision and inclusion administration, assessment and co-ordination. Also included is the funding delegated to nursery, primary and secondary schools identified as “notional SEN” and the individual schools budget (ISB) for special schools. 3. The ISB for special schools will include some general education costs for pupils with SEN in addition to those costs specifically for SEN while the figures recorded against “notional SEN” are only indicative of the amount that might by spent by schools on SEN and, from 2004-05 onwards, “notional SEN” delegated to nursery schools was reported on Section 52 for the first time (nursery schools “notional SEN” accounts for £7.8 million, £9.5 million, £10.4 million, £11.1 million and £11.7 million of the respective 2004-05, 2005-06, 2006-07, 2007-08 and 2008-09 England totals). In 2005-06, 2006-07, 2007-08 and 2008-09 local authorities in England also budgeted £499.6 million, £528.5 million, £554.9 million and £552.6 million for SEN transport expenditure but this is not included in the above table as figures are not available prior to 2005-06. 4. Bedfordshire LA ceased to exist and became two new authorities (Bedford Borough and Central Bedfordshire) as part of the LGR on 1 April 2009. 5. Figures are rounded to the nearest thousand pounds and may not sum due to rounding. Cash terms figures as reported by local authorities as at 23 October 2009.

Sure Start Programme: Birmingham operational in England, providing access to services for over 2.4 million children and their families. Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how many Sure Start Teachers: Pensions centres are (a) open and (b) planned to open in Birmingham. [296206] Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families whether he plans to Dawn Primarolo: Birmingham local authority has 69 amend the Teachers’ Pension Scheme entitlements for designated Sure Start Children’s Centres, with plans for scheme members on high salaries. [295679] a further six centres to be designated by March 2010. We are on track to achieve our target of at least 3,500 Mr. Coaker: The provisions of public service pension Sure Start Children’s Centres by March 2010, offering schemes, including the Teachers’ Pension Scheme, are access to services for all children under five and their kept under review to ensure they are appropriate and families. As of 31 August 2009 there were 3,059 centres sustainable at all levels. 613W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 614W

Teachers: Training ITT providers: Decrease in allocated places: Years: 2005/06 to 2009/10, Coverage: England Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10 Children, Schools and Families how many entrants to Accredited ITT undergraduate teacher training courses did not have providers any qualifications at A2 level or higher in the latest allocated fewer year for which figures are available. [295288] places when compared with the Mr. Coaker: The available information is given in the previous year: table and shows the number and percentage of entrants Number 66 127 157 142 103 to undergraduate initial teacher training (ITT) courses Percentage of all 28.1 54.0 67.4 61.7 45.0 by their highest qualification on entry. Qualifications accredited ITT included in the ″Other″ category might be higher than providers A-level and can include trainees who have A-levels. Source: Information relating specifically to entrants with no TDA’s Trainee Numbers Census qualifications at advanced level is not available. A table showing the number of ITT places allocated Undergraduate trainees represent 24 per cent. of to each accredited ITT provider for each of the last six trainees on mainstream ITT courses in 2007/08. years has been placed in the Library. Undergraduate entrants to ITT courses by their highest qualification on entry 2007/08, England Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Mainstream Employment based Children, Schools and Families how many providers of Highest initial teacher training have requested an increase in the qualification number of teacher training places in each of the last on entry Number Percentage Number Percentage five years. [295293]

With A or AS 4,330 57.9 0 0.0 Mr. Coaker: The table shows the number of accredited GNVQ 10 0.1 0 0.0 initial teacher training (ITT) providers who requested a Access 580 7.8 0 0.0 net year-on-year increase in ITT places across all subjects Other 2,570 34.3 150 100.0 in a particular phase during each of the last two bidding Total 7,480 100.0 150 100.0 rounds covering the academic years 2006/07 to 2010/11. Notes: 1. Mainstream includes universities and other higher education institutes Number of ITT providers that requested an increase in their place and Open University, but excludes employment based ITT (EBITT). allocation across all subjects by phase, 2006/07 to 2010/11, England 2. EBITT includes trainees through the Registered Teacher Programme. 3. Numbers have been rounded to the nearest 10. Number of ITT providers Source: Bidding round for TDA ’s Performance Profiles 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10 2010/11

Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Mainstream Children, Schools and Families which providers of initial Primary 43 23 73 28 22 teacher training have had their number of teacher training places reduced by (a) his Department and its predecessors Secondary 73 27 67 55 41 (b) Employment 58—622819 or the Training and Development Agency in each of Based the last five years. [295292] Notes: Mr. Coaker: The Department sets national targets for 1. Figures presented in the table do not reflect separate bids for individual subjects. initial teacher training (ITT) recruitment. ITT place 2. Although providers may have bid for additional places, it does not numbers for 2005/06 to 2009/10 are given in the table mean that their request was granted. and have been published as part of Statistical First 3. The numbers for mainstream primary and secondary providers are Release 26/2008: ″School Workforce in England″ at: not mutually exclusive so should not be aggregated. 4. For the employment based bidding exercise, a providers request for http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000813/ an increase for 2007/08 would, if granted, be counted in the inter-bidding index.shtml round. Number of ITT places: Years: 2005/06 to 2009/10, Coverage: England The number of providers who were allocated additional 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10 places is given in the table. Primary 15,800 15,300 14,800 17,460 18,050 Secondary 18,500 17,500 16,500 19,385 18,120 Number of ITT providers allocated additional places, 2006/07 to 2010/11, England Primary 34,300 32,800 31,300 36,845 36,170 and Mainstream Employment based secondary 2006/07 51 40 Note: 2007/08 59 47 Number of places prior to 2008/09 include School Centred ITT but excludes Employment Based ITT (EBITT). Targets for 2008/09 onwards 2008/09 29 46 include EBITT, but exclude Teach First. 2009/10 92 49 Source: 2010/11 70 28 DCSF Notes: The Training and Development Agency for Schools 1. The year relates to the allocation for that academic year, not when (TDA) allocates ITT places to individual providers the change was made. based on the national target. The table shows the number 2. Figures for 2009/10 and 2010/11 include providers who received of accredited ITT providers that were allocated fewer extra primary places as a result of the additional bidding exercise held places compared with the previous academic year. in summer 2008. 615W Written Answers29 OCTOBER 2009 Written Answers 616W

Travelling People: Computers Milton Keynes 79 per cent. of the successful grants in 2008-09 were awarded to young people involved in Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State voluntary sector youth projects. for Children, Schools and Families how many laptops Youth Inclusion Programmes have been issued to Travellers under the E-LAMP scheme since its inception; and at what cost to the Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for public purse. [294966] Children, Schools and Families how much each local authority (a) has spent on youth inclusion Mr. Coaker: Since the inception of the E-Learning programmes in each year since their inception and (b) and Mobility Project in 2003 856 laptops have been plans to spend on such programmes in each of the next loaned to mobile Gypsy and Traveller children at a cost five years; and what assessment he has made of the of £481,600. The laptops are owned by the participating effectiveness of the programmes. [294093] local authority’s Traveller Education Support Service. The service will recover and reallocate the laptops when Mr. Coaker: A local authority breakdown of this pupils leave the area or end their statutory education. funding can be provided only at disproportionate cost. Young People: Voluntary Work The total expenditure on YIP by the Youth Justice Board (YJB) between 2000 and 2006 is as follows. These figures include grants made to the voluntary sector. Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families what steps his £ Department is taking to support voluntary sector youth projects in promoting constructive activities for 2000-01 3,644,381.00 young people in the Milton Keynes Council area. 2001-02 4,761,939.00 [295755] 2002-03 5,047,370.00 2003-04 5,246,411.00 Mr. Coaker: The allocation through the DCSF Youth 2004-05 5,769,289.00 Sector Development Fund to MaD, Make a Difference, 2005-06 5,510,000.00 based in Milton Keynes, is £191,000 in FY 2009-10 and £179,000 in FY 2010-11. The overall expenditure, including YJB funding, on YIPs, between 2000 and 2006 is as follows. These figures The ‘Make a Difference’ project is providing a range demonstrate how the YJB grant draws in partnership of sports, arts and other activities including a Saturday funding from other sources, such as the local authority night dry nightclub for young people aged 13 to 19 and other local and national funding streams including years. The project is targeting the most disadvantaged through the 3rd sector. areas of the city. Services are focusing specifically on providing activities on Friday and Saturday nights, and £ the project aims to reach 1,000 young people. Milton Keynes’ share of the Positive Activities for 2000-01 8,194,262.00 Young People (PAYP) budget was £251,000 in 2008-09 2001-02 10,686,660.00 with an increase to £269,000 in 2009-10 and £560,000 in 2002-03 11,729,657.00 2010-11. 2003-04 12,299,890.00 This funding is provided to local authorities (LA) for 2004-05 13,533,310.00 all the year round provision of developmental and 2005-06 12,396,740.00 diversionary activities—targeted at those young people From 2006, funding allocations for YIPs have been most at risk of poor outcomes. This is part of the Area accounted for as part of the YJB’s overall prevention Based Grant—giving the LA the flexibility to determine grant to Youth Offending Teams (YOTs). This includes locally how best to spend the investment and the chance funding for other prevention programmes. to use it to enhance a multi-agency response to the complex needs of at risk young people. Voluntary sector An independent national evaluation in 2003/06 of the providers will play a key role as partners and providers, YIP programme found that: but is for the LA—through its children’s trust arrangements of the four targets for the programme, YIPs exceeded one, to decide which projects should be funded. narrowly missed one, and fell short on two; however, arrest rates for the engaged target group considered to be most Milton Keynes receives a total of £113,000 Youth at risk of crime in each YIP went down by 66.5 per cent., Opportunities Fund (YOF) and £131,000 YouthCapital of those who had not offended previously but who were at high Fund (YCF) per annum. risk, 74 per cent. did not go on to be arrested after engaging Voluntary sector organisations are key partners in with a YIP. delivering YOF/YCF in local areas, both as an advisory A report of the evaluation is available on the Youth role to young decision makers and in extending the Justice Board’s website at: reach of the funds within communities. Their continued http://www.yjb.gov.uk/Publications/Resources/Downloads/ and enhanced involvement is considered key to engaging Evaluation%20of%20the%20Youth%20lnclusion%20Programme% those young people who do not normally participate. In 20-%20Phase%202%20(Summary).pdf

5MC Ministerial Corrections29 OCTOBER 2009 Ministerial Corrections 6MC Ministerial Correction Letter of correction from Helen Goodman: An error has been identified in an oral answer given to the hon. Member for Wolverhampton, South-West Thursday 29 October 2009 (Rob Marris) on 19 October 2009. The exchange was as follows: Rob Marris (Wolverhampton, South-West) (Lab): Earlier today the Minister told me that the Child Support Agency was going to get even more powers for enforcement. WORK AND PENSIONS When will the Government stop giving the CSA more powers for enforcement and actually ensure that it uses the enforcement powers it already has? Topical Questions Helen Goodman: I can inform my hon. Friend that CMEC is using its powers extremely effectively. The Rob Marris (Wolverhampton, South-West) (Lab): Earlier maintenance collected has now reached £1.136 billion, today the Minister told me that the Child Support which is £157 million above the target. Agency was going to get even more powers for enforcement. The correct answer should have been: When will the Government stop giving the CSA more powers for enforcement and actually ensure that it uses Helen Goodman: I can inform my hon. Friend that the enforcement powers it already has? CMEC is using its powers extremely effectively. The maintenance collected has now reached £1.136 billion, [Official Report, 19 October 2009, Vol. 497, c. 636.] which is £1 million above the target.

ORAL ANSWERS

Thursday 29 October 2009

Col. No. Col. No. ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS— AFFAIRS...... 422 continued Bees (Pesticides) ...... 434 International Whaling Commission ...... 431 Bovine Tuberculosis ...... 429 Light Pollution...... 430 British Waterways ...... 435 Local Food Chains...... 425 Common Agricultural Policy ...... 428 Milk and Dairy Industry...... 433 Farmers (Suicides) ...... 427 Natural Environment...... 422 Farm-gate Milk Prices...... 435 Topical Questions ...... 437 Flood Defences...... 437 UK Fishing Industry ...... 432 Floods (Pitt Report)...... 424 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Thursday 29 October 2009

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 21WS JUSTICE...... 26WS Global Entrepreneurship Week...... 21WS Probation Service...... 26WS

NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 27WS DEFENCE...... 22WS Report of the Chief Electoral Officer for Implementation of the Armed Forces Act 2006 ..... 22WS Northern Ireland ...... 27WS

HEALTH...... 22WS TRANSPORT ...... 28WS Health and Adult Social Care Providers Local Services (Operation by Licensed Hire Cars) (Registration)...... 23WS Regulations 2009...... 29WS Health and Criminal Justice Programme...... 22WS Transport for London ...... 28WS TREASURY ...... 21WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 24WS Corporate Taxation ...... 21WS Justice and Home Affairs (Post-Council Statement)...... 25WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 30WS Returns to Zimbabwe...... 24WS Discretionary Social Fund ...... 30WS PETITION

Thursday 29 October 2009

Col. No. Elimination of Hunger and Thirst...... 1P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Thursday 29 October 2009

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 541W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued Apprentices: Birmingham ...... 541W Spaceflight ...... 547W Broadband ...... 541W Students: Grants ...... 548W Broadband: Lancashire...... 541W Students: Loans ...... 549W Business: Government Assistance ...... 542W Telephones: North West...... 551W Business Links: Sick Leave...... 542W Train to Gain Programme ...... 551W Further Education ...... 543W UK High Technology Fund ...... 552W Further Education: Finance...... 543W Vocational Training: Birmingham...... 553W Higher Education...... 544W Internet: Computer Viruses...... 545W CABINET OFFICE...... 565W Motor Vehicles: Manufacturing Industries...... 545W Building Britain’s Future...... 565W National Economic Council Sub-Committee on Cancer: North East...... 565W Better Regulation...... 546W Census: Religion ...... 566W National Skills Academy for Creative and Departmental Training ...... 567W Cultural Skills: Thurrock ...... 546W Government Departments: Power of Information Quantum Technology Partnership ...... 547W Taskforce ...... 567W Col. No. Col. No. CABINET OFFICE—continued COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— Jobseeker’s Allowance: Norwich ...... 568W continued National Economic Council...... 568W Employment Agencies...... 520W National Economic Council: Arrests ...... 569W Fire Services: Pensions ...... 521W Teenage Pregnancy...... 569W Government Office for the North West ...... 522W Unemployment: Newport Gwent...... 570W Government Office for the North West: Vetting: Scotland...... 571W Allowances...... 522W Local Government: Chorley...... 523W CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES ...... 585W Local Government: Pensions ...... 523W Academies: Sponsorship ...... 585W Non-Domestic Rates: Greater London ...... 523W Adoption ...... 586W Planning Obligations: Chorley ...... 524W BECTA: Finance ...... 586W Regional Planning and Development...... 524W Children: Day Care ...... 586W Retail Trade: Planning Permission ...... 525W Children: Human Trafficking...... 587W Shared Ownership Schemes ...... 525W Children: Protection...... 587W Children’s Centres: Derbyshire...... 587W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 512W Christmas...... 589W Departmental Postal Services...... 512W Class Sizes...... 589W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 512W Class Sizes: East of England ...... 589W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 513W Classroom Assistants: Derbyshire...... 590W Football Foundation: Finance ...... 514W Climate Change: Teaching Aids ...... 590W Sport England...... 514W Departmental Information Officers ...... 591W Sports: Schools ...... 515W Departmental Manpower...... 591W Young Offenders: Princes Trust...... 516W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 591W Departmental Telephone Services ...... 592W DEFENCE...... 498W Education: Finance...... 592W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 498W Faith Schools: Finance...... 592W Armed Forces: Injuries...... 499W Family Intervention Projects: Derbyshire...... 592W Armed Forces: Somalia...... 499W Family Intervention Projects: Finance ...... 593W Ascension Island...... 499W GCSE ...... 593W Departmental Postal Services...... 500W GCSE: Disadvantaged ...... 594W Departmental Travel ...... 500W GCSE: Enfield ...... 594W Gurkhas: Pensions ...... 500W Gifted Children: Leeds...... 594W Military Aircraft ...... 501W Headteachers ...... 595W Military Decorations...... 501W Languages: GCSE...... 595W Nuclear Submarines...... 501W Members: Correspondence ...... 596W Territorial Army ...... 502W National Council for Educational Excellence...... 596W Trident ...... 502W Primary Education...... 596W Primary Education: Pupil Exclusions...... 596W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 525W Private Education: Per Capita Costs ...... 597W Carbon Emissions: Government Assistance...... 525W Pupils: Absenteeism ...... 597W Climate Change ...... 526W Pupils: Disadvantaged...... 598W Climate Change: Conferences ...... 526W Pupils: East of England ...... 599W Consolidated Contractors Corporation ...... 527W Pupils: Per Capita Costs...... 601W Wind Power: Areas of Outstanding Natural Pupils: Special Educational Needs ...... 605W Beauty...... 527W Schools: Admissions ...... 605W Schools: Derbyshire ...... 605W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Schools: Finance...... 606W AFFAIRS...... 488W Schools: Hearing Impaired ...... 606W Biodiversity Targets ...... 488W Schools: Inspections...... 607W Bluefin Tuna ...... 489W Schools: Mental Health ...... 607W Bovine Tuberculosis ...... 489W Schools: Standards...... 608W Departmental Catering ...... 490W Schools: Uniforms ...... 608W Domestic Waste: Waste Disposal ...... 490W Science: Teachers ...... 609W European Habitats Directive...... 489W Secondary Education ...... 610W Food: Packaging ...... 490W Secondary Education: Milton Keynes...... 610W Grain Farmers: Income...... 489W Special Educational Needs: East of England ...... 610W Greyhounds ...... 491W Sure Start Programme: Birmingham ...... 611W Household Waste...... 488W Teachers: Pensions ...... 612W Ragwort ...... 491W Teachers: Training...... 613W Recycling: Greater London...... 492W Travelling People: Computers ...... 616W Rivers: Canoeing...... 495W Young People: Voluntary Work...... 616W Youth Inclusion Programmes...... 617W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 502W Afghanistan: Elections...... 502W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT . 519W Afghanistan: Foreign Relations...... 503W Community Development: Voluntary Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 503W Organisations...... 519W Aung San Suu Kyi...... 503W Council Housing: Finance ...... 519W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 504W Departmental Ministerial Policy Advisers...... 519W Embassies: Civil Partnerships ...... 504W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 519W Iran...... 505W Disabled Facilities Grants ...... 520W Middle East: Armed Conflict...... 506W Col. No. Col. No. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE— INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT—continued continued St Helena: Airports ...... 574W Middle East: Peace Negotiations...... 507W Sudan...... 574W Middle East: Water ...... 508W Monitor Group: Meetings...... 508W JUSTICE...... 553W Occupied Territories: Housing ...... 508W Advisory Panel on Judicial Diversity ...... 554W Russia: Foreign Relations...... 509W Departmental Telephone Services ...... 556W Sri Lanka: Human Rights...... 509W Driving Offences ...... 556W Temple Mount ...... 509W European Court of Human Rights ...... 553W Turkey: Israel ...... 510W Judges: Retirement...... 555W Yvonne Fletcher...... 510W Members: Correspondence ...... 556W Prison Accommodation ...... 557W HEALTH...... 577W Prisoners: Mothers...... 558W Abortion ...... 577W Prisoners Release ...... 557W Cancer: Diagnosis ...... 577W Prisoners Release ...... 558W Contraceptives ...... 577W Reoffenders...... 558W Departmental Domestic Visits ...... 578W Sentencing...... 561W Eyesight: Testing...... 579W Shoplifting: Sentencing ...... 561W General Practitioners: Birmingham ...... 580W Young Offender Institutions: Injuries...... 563W Health Services: York...... 580W HIV Infection ...... 581W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 511W Hospital beds: Elderly...... 581W Northern Ireland Independent Monitoring Board . 511W Hospitals: Parking ...... 582W Prisons: Complaints...... 512W Hypergonadism...... 583W NHS: Information and Communications Technology ...... 583W OLYMPICS ...... 517W Nutrition: Mothers ...... 583W Domestic Christmas Trees...... 517W Palliative Care: Finance ...... 584W International Olympic Committee ...... 517W Pharmacy...... 584W Olympic Games 2012: Barking and Dagenham...... 517W Pharmacy: Exports ...... 584W Olympic Games 2012: Construction ...... 517W Pharmacy: Licensing...... 585W Olympic Games 2012: Gun Sports ...... 518W Sedation...... 585W Olympic Games 2012: Transport...... 518W Social Services: Birmingham...... 585W Olympic Games: China...... 518W

HOME DEPARTMENT...... 527W PRIME MINISTER ...... 486W Alcoholic Drinks: Crime...... 527W Devolution...... 486W Alcoholic Drinks: Public Places ...... 528W Employment: EC Law...... 486W Antisocial Behaviour...... 529W Antisocial Behaviour: Norwich...... 531W SOLICITOR-GENERAL...... 486W Antisocial Behaviour Orders: Staffordshire...... 530W Animal Welfare: Prosecutions ...... 486W Antisocial Behaviour Orders: Wales...... 530W Domestic Violence ...... 487W Antisocial Behaviour Orders: Young People ...... 530W Fraud: Convictions ...... 487W Crime: Business...... 531W Crime: Young People ...... 531W TRANSPORT ...... 495W Departmental Vetting ...... 531W Aviation: Carbon Emissions...... 495W Detection Rates...... 532W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 495W Domestic Violence: Arrests ...... 535W Eurostar: Cleaning Services ...... 495W Driving Offences: Mobile Phones...... 535W Fire Services: Working Hours ...... 496W Immobilisation of Vehicles...... 535W Local Transport Plans: Carbon Emissions ...... 496W Independent Safeguarding Authority: Finance ...... 535W Motor Vehicles: Norwich...... 497W Members: Correspondence ...... 537W Motor Vehicles: Registration...... 497W Passports: Fraud ...... 537W Railways: Environment Protection...... 497W Proceeds of Crime: East of England ...... 537W West Coast Railway Line: Speed Limits ...... 498W Telecommunications: Databases ...... 539W Terrorism ...... 539W Terrorism: Arrests...... 540W TREASURY ...... 574W Terrorism: Convictions...... 540W Child Care Vouchers ...... 574W Council Tax ...... 575W HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION...... 510W Economic and Monetary Union: Local Copyright...... 510W Government...... 575W Lighting ...... 510W Housing: Construction...... 575W Members’ Staff...... 511W Public Expenditure...... 575W Portcullis House: Energy...... 511W Revenue and Customs: Repayment ...... 576W Thalidomide Trust: Taxation...... 576W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 571W Afghanistan: Overseas Aid...... 571W WALES...... 498W Burma: Overseas Aid ...... 572W Digital Broadcasting ...... 498W Christmas...... 572W Indonesia: Earthquakes ...... 573W WOMEN AND EQUALITY ...... 525W Overseas Aid: Rescue Services ...... 573W Equality and Human Rights Commission: Somalia: Overseas Aid ...... 573W Manpower ...... 525W Col. No. Col. No. WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 483W WORK AND PENSIONS—continued Charities ...... 483W Pensioners: Social security benefits ...... 485W Industrial Diseases: Compensation ...... 483W Industrial Health and Safety: Materials Handling Equipment ...... 484W MINISTERIAL CORRECTION

Thursday 29 October 2009

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CONTENTS

Thursday 29 October 2009

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 422] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs

Business of the House [Col. 443] Statement—(Ms Harman)

Personal Statement [Col. 455] (Mr. McNulty)

Fireworks Safety [Col. 456] Topical debate

Social Care Green Paper [Col. 479] Motion—(Andy Burnham)—agreed to

Regional Select Committee (Yorkshire and the Humber) [Col. 546] Motion—(Mr. Blizzard)—agreed to

Regional Select Committee (South West) [Col. 548] Motion—(Mr. Blizzard)—debate adjourned

Furniture Industry [Col. 549] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Oil and Gas [Col. 143WH] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 21WS]

Petition [Col. 1P]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 483W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Correction [Col. 5MC]