H O U S E O F K E Y S O F F I C I A L R E P O R T

R E C O R T Y S O I K O I L Y C H I A R E A S F E E D

P R O C E E D I N G S

D A A L T Y N

HANSARD

Douglas, Tuesday, 26th June 2018

All published Official Reports can be found on the Tynwald website:

www.tynwald.org.im/business/hansard

Supplementary material provided subsequent to a sitting is also published to the website as a Hansard Appendix. Reports, maps and other documents referred to in the course of debates may be consulted on application to the Tynwald Library or the Clerk of Tynwald’s Office.

Volume 135, No. 22

ISSN 1742-2264

Published by the Office of the Clerk of Tynwald, Legislative Buildings, Finch Road, Douglas, Isle of Man, IM1 3PW. © Court of Tynwald, 2018 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

Present:

The Speaker (Hon. J P Watterson) (Rushen); Mr J R Moorhouse and Hon. G D Cregeen (Arbory, Castletown and Malew); Mr T S Baker (Ayre and Michael); Hon. C C Thomas and Mrs C A Corlett (Douglas Central); Miss C L Bettison and Mr C R Robertshaw (Douglas East); Hon. D J Ashford and Mr G R Peake (Douglas North); Mrs K J Beecroft and Hon. W M Malarkey (Douglas South); Mr M J Perkins and Mrs D H P Caine (Garff); Hon. R K Harmer and Hon. G G Boot (Glenfaba and Peel); Mr W C Shimmins (Middle); Mr R E Callister and Ms J M Edge (Onchan); Mr L L Hooper (Ramsey); with Mr R I S Phillips, Secretary of the House.

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Business transacted

Leave of absence granted ...... 1037 Welcome to Minister Counsellor Wang Yongli from Chinese Embassy in London ...... 1037 Procedural ...... 1037 1. Questions for Oral Answer...... 1038 1.1-3. Acquisition of Steam Packet Company – Consideration of alternative options; publication of documents relating to Council of Ministers’ consideration ...... 1038 1.4. Government sales, purchases or contracts – Commercial confidentiality ...... 1045 1.5. Purchase of Steam Packet Company – Reserve funds utilised ...... 1048 1.6. SAVE Programme – Expenditure incurred to 26th June 2018 ...... 1049 1.7. DSC performance – How assessed and date of last Ofsted report ...... 1051 1.8. Behaviour of school teachers – Process of investigation following accusations by colleagues ...... 1054 1.9. Student loans – Repayment on completion of studies ...... 1055 1.10. Groudle Glen – Condition as public amenity ...... 1056 Standing Order 3.5.1(2) suspended to complete Questions ...... 1058 Groudle Glen – Supplementary questions continued ...... 1059 1.11. Oncotype DX tests – Policy and plans for making available to NHS patients ...... 1061 1.12. Groudle Glen – Condition of footpath ...... 1064 1.13-14. Sale of Middlemarch site – Proportion of proceeds in respect of inflation; pre-sale valuation ...... 1065 1.15. Public sector pension schemes – Intention to bring motion to July sitting of Tynwald ...... 1068 1.16. Registration of beneficial ownership – Process re dispute resolution and completion of annual returns and declarations ...... 1069 1.17. TAXE 3 – Action taken ...... 1071 1.18. Importation of business jets – Progress re HM Treasury assessment ...... 1073 1.19. Provision of sea services – Shorter crossing times and lower fares ...... 1074 1.20. Purchase of Steam Packet Company – Ensuring no direct costs to taxpayer ...... 1075 1.21. Sea services policy – Commitment to avoid direct costs to taxpayer ...... 1077

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2. Questions for Written Answer ...... 1078 2.1. Previous political decisions overturned – Breakdown for current administration ..... 1078 2.2. One penny increase in Income Tax/NI rates – Estimated additional revenue ...... 1078 2.3. Capital projects – List of approved projects awaiting funding ...... 1079 2.4. Education Bill consultation – Responses re catchment area schools ...... 1086 2.5. School applications – Details for out of catchment area ...... 1086 2.6. Student computers in secondary schools – Expenditure in last 10 years ...... 1088 2.7. Residential home places – Number and cost ...... 1089 2.8. Nursing home places – Number and cost ...... 1089 2.9. Salisbury Street Nursing Home – Unoccupied beds and cost ...... 1089 2.10. DHSC staff sickness – Number subject to capability process ...... 1091 2.11. Noble’s Hospital staff sickness – Numbers by Division ...... 1091 2.12. Overweight/obese children in Year 6 – Routine measuring ...... 1092 2.13. Overweight/obese children in Reception – Percentages by primary school ...... 1092 Order of the Day ...... 1094 3. Bills for First Reading ...... 1094 3.1. Communications Bill 2018; 3.2. Payment of Members’ Expenses (Amendment) Bill 2018 ...... 1094 The House adjourned at 11.58 a.m...... 1094

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House of Keys

The House met at 10.00 a.m.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The Speaker: Moghrey mie, good morning, Hon. Members.

Members: Moghrey mie, good morning, Mr Speaker. 5 The Speaker: I call on the Chaplain to lead us in prayer.

PRAYERS The Chaplain of the House

Leave of absence granted

The Speaker: Hon. Members, I have given leave of absence today to the Chief Minister, Dr Allinson and Mr Cannan, who are attending a funeral, and I have also given leave of absence to Mr Skelly, who is off Island on Government business.

Welcome to Minister Counsellor Wang Yongli from Chinese Embassy in London

10 The Speaker: I am pleased to acknowledge in the Gallery Minister Counsellor Wang Yongli from the Chinese Embassy in London. Welcome to our proceedings.

Members: Hear, hear.

Procedural

The Speaker: In the absence of the Chief Minister, his Questions will be answered by 15 Mr Thomas; in the absence of Mr Cannan, his Questions will be answered by Mr Shimmins; and in the absence of Mr Skelly, his Questions will be answered by Mr Hooper.

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1. Questions for Oral Answer

CHIEF MINISTER

1.1-3. Acquisition of Steam Packet Company – Consideration of alternative options; publication of documents relating to Council of Ministers’ consideration

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Chief Minister:

1. On what dates the Council of Ministers considered the alternative options for gaining strategic control of the Island’s ferry service? 2. Following the Tynwald resolution of July 2017 requiring Government to consider all other options for the future of sea services, whether the Council of Ministers considered any options that did not involve acquisition of the Steam Packet Company; and, if so, when? 3. If he will authorise the publication of all papers, minutes and notes relating to the Council of Ministers’ consideration of the acquisition of the Steam Packet Company?

The Speaker: Questions 1, 2 and 3, all being on the same topic and of a similar nature, will be grouped, and so I call on Mrs Beecroft to read out Questions 1, 2 and 3 standing in her name.

20 Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to ask the Chief Minister: 1. On what dates the Council of Ministers considered the alternative options for gaining strategic control of the Island’s ferry service; 2. Following the Tynwald resolution of July 2017 requiring Government to consider all other options for the future of sea services, whether the Council of Ministers considered any options that did not 25 involve acquisition of the Steam Packet Company, and if so, when; and 3. If he will authorise the publication of all papers, minutes and notes relating to the Council of Ministers’ consideration of the acquisition of the Steam Packet Company? Thank you.

30 The Speaker: Thank you. As previously advised, I call on Mr Thomas to reply on behalf of the Chief Minister.

The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you, Mr Speaker. I have got three separate Answers, but I will make it clear when I am moving from one to the other. 35 The Council of Ministers has considered the options for strategic sea services at meetings on 19th May 2016, 16th June 2016, 23rd June 2016, 8th November 2016, 10th November 2016, 19th January 2017 and 11th May 2017. For the sake of accuracy, I would like to repeat the Tynwald motion of July 2017, which stated:

That Tynwald, whilst noting the terms of the offer of the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company Ltd dated 3rd March 2017 for a New Strategic Sea Services Agreement, instructs the Department of Infrastructure to continue negotiations with the Company and to consider all other options for achieving a more effective solution that offers greater benefit to the Island.

40 In fact, as part of the work of the Department of Infrastructure, ongoing since October 2013, several options had been considered already in relation to strategic sea services. The Department brought the paper to the Council of Ministers in November 2016 – which I am sure the Member for South Douglas will recall, as she was a Minister at that time and

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present at the meeting, I believe – where the options for securing strategic sea services were 45 presented to the Council of Ministers by the Department. In January 2017 the Council of Ministers considered a detailed paper from the Department of Infrastructure which identified and explored 11 options for models for sea service delivery. The minutes show that the Member for South Douglas was present as a Minister at that meeting also. This paper built on the options identified by Oxera in their report, which was annexed to 50 the Strategic Sea Services report brought to Tynwald by the Department of Infrastructure in December 2016. In May 2017 the Council of Ministers further considered the options for securing strategic sea services as part of a workshop relating to this subject. The minutes also show that the Member for South Douglas was present at that meeting. 55 Moving now to authorising the publication of all papers, minutes and notes, whilst the Chief Minister thanks the Hon. Member for her Questions in relation to this matter and recognises the public interest in having information available in relation to the decision-making process, the Chief Minister is unable at this time to authorise the publication of all papers, minutes and notes relating to the Council of Ministers’ consideration of the acquisition of the Steam Packet 60 Company. Members will recognise that to disclose potentially commercially sensitive information, especially at this stage of the acquisition process, could prejudice the ongoing discussions, inhibit the free and frank exchange of views during this deliberation period and could prejudice the commercial interests of the Steam Packet Company and MIOM Ltd. The Tynwald resolution in May of this year not only agreed that the Isle of Man Steam Packet 65 Company and associated companies be purchased and that the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company operates at arm’s length from Government, but also that the financing of a loan be prepared, a board be appointed on an interim basis and the structure of the board be reviewed and further options in relation to shareholders and operations partners be investigated. Mr Speaker, Hon. Members, much more work remains to be accomplished in relation to this 70 matter and to publish confidential documents at this time would undermine potentially the ongoing considerations and discussions. Thank you.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft. 75 Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I have two specific ones. Particularly the ongoing discussions – is he referring to ongoing discussions with the Steam Packet Company as it was? I thought that was a done deal and all signed and sealed, so if he could give a bit of clarity around that. 80 The other section, which he may or may not be able to answer and may have to take back to the Chief Minister, is regarding my request for the documents to be released, because in the February 2017 Government Code, which is when it was revised, it clearly states under section 1.11:

This removes the automatic confidentiality attached to the business of Council for information created on or after this date.

As he has already said, the Chief Minister recognises the public interest in this matter, so I 85 would be grateful if he could get clarification from the Chief Minister and maybe circulate it as to why this new section does not apply in this case.

The Speaker: Mr Thomas to reply.

90 The Minister: Thank you, and I appreciate the supplementary questions from the Hon. Member for South Douglas.

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The Steam Packet Company as it was and as it is are the same thing except that there are new owners, so my observation about commercial interests and about ongoing negotiations is to do with the things identified in my Answer to do with loans and to do with the revenue and 95 balance sheets of the company and so on. So, in other words, this company now has new shareholders. That does not mean it is not a commercial company operating at arm’s length from Government. So, in that sense, ‘as it was’ is the same as ‘as it is’. The Steam Packet is now under the ownership of an entity in the public interest in the Isle of Man. That is absolutely clear. 100 In terms of the Government Code, I will take the advice of the Hon. Member for Douglas South and circulate an exact briefing in respect of the Government Code, but Hon. Members and the wider public should remember that codes do not supplement or supplant – well, they supplement but they do not supplant – the law in this respect, and the law is the Council of Ministers Act, from memory section 6, which is that:

The proceedings of the Council of Ministers shall be confidential, and no member thereof, without the leave of the Chief Minister, shall divulge to any unauthorised person any matter or thing said or done therein.

105 So that is the law in respect of this and obviously the Code cannot change the law, but I will circulate the specific answer in respect of the Code. The other point to bear in mind is the principles inside the Freedom of Information Act, because we do have an excellent Freedom of Information Act that is working very helpfully for the public interest in the Isle of Man. Hon. Members and the questioner will remember that 110 there are qualified exemptions under section 30 for economy and commercial interests, under section 34 for the formulation of policy and section 35 for the conduct of public business, in which information is exempt if its disclosure would or would be likely to prejudice the work of the Council of Ministers and to inhibit the free and frank provision of advice or the free and frank exchange of views for the purposes of deliberation, and so on. 115 In closing, I just wanted to say that this House and the other Branch and the Hon. Court have got the crucial documents that were produced by advisers to the Isle of Man Government in this process. The Department of Infrastructure, of which the Hon. Member for South Douglas was a Member at the time, led the way with indicating to partners and Oxera that their documents would be published a couple of years ago, and they were, and subsequently a couple of months 120 ago we did publish the advice from … I am remembering here … Deloitte’s in respect of financial economic aspects and from Braemar in respect of technical aspects. I would like to think Hon. Members will accept that we have gone out of our way to make sure that the debate is informed by the facts and the analysis, and I hope that Hon. Members and the wider general public will understand that in the interests of commercial negotiations 125 that are ongoing, and also to make sure that we start off as we mean to go on – which is that this company is an arm’s-length company not subject to week in, week out political interference; let me call it that – we need to establish some principles up front, and I am hoping that this answer to this helpful Question has enabled me to do that. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, Hon. Members. 130 The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker, I do have two supplementaries again, if I may. The first one is: would the Minister not agree with me that yes, whilst the Steam Packet has 135 new shareholders, the shareholders are the Government, so it is a very different ball game than when they were completely separate and outside, because the shareholders – the Government – represent the taxpayers? So I think it is a very different matter and I would like to see if he would agree with me on that.

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With regard to the Government Code, yes it is governed by law, but would he not agree with 140 me …? If I may, I will read the full section 1.11, Mr Speaker. It says:

Under section 6(2) of the Council of Ministers Act 1990

– which the Minister referred to –

‘the proceedings of the Council of Ministers shall be confidential and no member thereof, without the leave of the Chief Minister, shall divulge to any unauthorised person any matter or thing said or done therein’.

So the Minister’s recollection was absolutely spot on in that respect, but would he agree with me that it goes on:

Section 6 (2A) of the Council of Ministers Act 1990 states ‘Subsection (2) does not affect the operation of the Freedom of Information Act 2015 in respect of information created on or after the 11 October 2011’. This removes the automatic confidentiality attached to the business of Council for information created on or after this date.

The Speaker: Mr Thomas to reply. 145 The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and to the hon. questioner. Yes, I completely accept that the shareholders of the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company are now the Government on behalf of the public of the Isle of Man. We have to remember that there are all sorts of interests in the Steam Packet now. There is 150 the Government’s interest as the shareholder and representing the public through the business of forming a parliament and then forming a Government out of that parliament, Tynwald. There is the public interest as consumers of goods in our shops which get here by freight, who use it for travel on the crucial sea lines to and from Liverpool and Heysham. There is the interest of the staff who work for the Steam Packet. There is the interest of all sorts of people and we need to 155 make sure that all those interests are balanced in the Hon. Court, in this Branch and upstairs in the future, but that does not mean that we need to start interfering with the commercial operations, the technical decisions and the price decisions week in, week out. We need to establish at this stage that this is an arm’s-length entity for the future and for the good future of the people of our Island. 160 In terms of the second question, yes, the hon. questioner is completely correct. The Council of Ministers Act does go on, as amended in the Freedom of Information Act, to identify the parts of the Freedom of Information Act that I cited in my initial Answer. So section 30, section 34 and section 35 are all relevant in this situation. There might be other sections of the Freedom of Information Act that apply, so if the hon. questioner or anybody else wants to make a Freedom 165 of Information Act request – perfectly legitimate and it will be answered, and obviously then there is the request for reconsideration and then ultimately the Information Commissioner can be engaged to make a final decision. My strong feeling, as a relatively old hand with my five or six years’ experience in this Hon. House and longer looking at these sorts of things, is this is quite obviously covered by some of 170 those sections that I just read out, but I would like to see that perhaps tested in the Freedom of Information Act and I invite the hon. questioner or anybody else to put in that application.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Ms Edge.

175 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would just like to ask the Minister a couple of questions with regard to this. I think the terminology used was MIOM Ltd, which I assume is the arm’s-length company, which … Perhaps we are getting a lot of questions here that are getting sea legs. I would just like to ask the Hon. Member, the Minister for Policy and Reform, whether he will issue to the people

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180 of the Island – it is my understanding they do own this company – who the directors are of the company, so that they can establish in the future and look at this online in the Companies Register … so that we can make sure that this company is acting for the people of the Isle of Man?

185 The Speaker: Mr Thomas to reply.

The Minister: I have not been involved in the intricacies for the actual shareholding companies, but MIOM Ltd was a company that was above Sealion. I was one of the first people to actually see all the accounts in a closed, darkened room with one officer of the Isle of Man 190 three or four years ago and I got into all the different entities that were involved. I am not exactly sure how the shareholding is being rearranged now, but I am sure that it would be very easy for the Chief Minister to circulate after this question an exact indication of the structure in which Government has held its … I think if that is not already in the public domain it is not just my ignorance through not having reminded myself exactly the name of the company and how it 195 is being structured. That leads on to my second answer, which is yes, this is a company which will operate properly according to governance and it is perfectly reasonable for the names of the directors to be published, as they have been in the past and they will be in the future. In 2014-15 I think, in a Positive Action Group meeting I first mentioned that all this talk about 200 secret accounts … I had them, they were already available from Companies House in the United Kingdom as a foreign company trading there. That sort of information has always been available. It is just a myth that has built up that this company was operating opaquely and secretly and I can absolutely assure this Hon. House that the Government has taken great care to appoint some transition directors and then there will be open recruitment for the directors at the right 205 time. When this whole commercial, arm’s-length arrangement for the benefit of the people of the Isle of Man – separated properly, public policy from the operational aspects of running a sea services company – has been sorted out, there will be open recruitment for the directors and I would welcome the best possible candidates around this Island and beyond to help our people get the most from their sea services. 210 The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mr Hooper.

Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Turning to the Minister’s original Answer, he slightly confused me and slightly worried me 215 when he said that the Chief Minister would be unwilling to release the information at this stage in the acquisition process. He then went on to say that we are the new owners and the owners are now the Government. Can he just confirm that the acquisition process is actually complete and the Isle of Man Government is actually the new shareholder? Also, when he said that he would be unwilling to release the documents at this stage in the 220 acquisition process, that kind of implies that there will be a point at which the documents will be available for release. Can he confirm, then, when it would be appropriate to release these documents and if they will be released at that point? And then my last question is to do with the fact that we are now in a post-acquisition state, so if we are post-acquisition, can he please confirm how an options paper that is to do with 225 alternative options as to how we may run our services could possibly impact on the commercial negotiations and interfere on the day-to-day operations of the company?

The Speaker: Mr Thomas to reply.

230 The Minister: Okay, thank you, yes.

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What is an acquisition? Is it just the acquiring of the shares, or is it all the activities that go on post-acquisition? We can get pedantic and argue the point, but there is a lot still going on post- acquisition consequent on the acquisition. So, as I have already said once, and I will say it again, the Steam Packet is owned by the 235 people of the Isle of Man through their Government. Post-acquisition, as I indicated in my clear Answer – because I did not write it; it was written for me to make sure it went through due diligence (Laughter) and everything like that. Basically there are complicated post-acquisition negotiations going on for us and also there are continuing commercial realities for people around this. 240 This House and the other place will, through time, need to develop an understanding of what is commercial, operational and what is in the public policy interest, and I am trying to help that. The Isle of Man people own the Steam Packet. There are still transactions to do with loans and transactions to do with decisions about the revenues and costs and so on, which clearly are commercially confidential. 245 In terms of the options, as I said very clearly in my Answer, the options that were considered up to the middle of 2017 were the ones that were laid out in public in the documents that were produced for that purpose. The hon. questioner from Douglas South has seen those 11 options. We made decisions about ranking those options, and I think in actual fact the Minister for Infrastructure made the point very clearly: some of those options were dependent on the basic 250 decision of whether or not we extended the User Agreement for the existing owners, whether or not we did nothing or whether or not we actually acquired the Steam Packet. So other sorts of options came into play and those options that were there and have been announced in public are still in the melting pot, they are still in the game, because we can make decisions about how we structure the ownership in the future and we can make decisions about 255 the revenue that we plan for and the costs that we allow, and that is live. They are partly operational decisions and partly public policy decisions, and as the Minister for Infrastructure and the Minister for the Treasury have clearly said we have got 12 months – or 10 months now – to actually come up with the public policy consensus with the people of the Isle of Man, whose company it is, about the future of the sea services, the Steam Packet inside that sea services 260 future, and that can then be enshrined in the User Agreement from a consumer aspect, from a worker aspect, from a freight aspect and from all the other aspects that are so vital and why we had to think big and act big in the context of sea services.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft. 265 Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I congratulate the Minister for Policy and Reform for filling in for the Chief Minister so admirably with all the details he has given us, which I thank him for. I would also like to thank him for reminding me when I was a Minister, because I can assure 270 him it is something I have not forgotten! (Laughter) I do have two final supplementaries, if I may. The first one is regarding the Freedom of Information Act and the request for the information. I know that the Minister said that he would go back to the Chief Minister and ask for confirmation that it is not going to be circulated and the rationale for why, but could I ask him: would he agree with me that if the Chief Minister 275 should decide still not to circulate the information, even in a redacted form, and the Information Commissioner decided that it should be circulated, it may make the Council of Ministers look extremely foolish? Could also ask him if he agrees with me that the legal duty of directors is to act in the best interests of the company, but that the directors are responsible to the shareholders and they 280 will be replaced by the shareholders if they so choose, particularly where there is a 100% holding?

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The Speaker: Mr Thomas to reply.

285 The Minister: Thank you. I have tried to make notes to remember the points but I forgot one in the previous answer, so I hope the Hon. Member for Douglas South will not mind me answering the middle question from the Hon. Member for Ramsey, which I omitted to answer the first time. Essentially, the Chief Minister said that the documents would not be published at this stage 290 for the reasons identified, but – and without indicating any sort of timetable, which is what you requested – the decision might change in the future, depending on where we are with the commercial and operational negotiations. So it would not be appropriate to specify a timescale, but the Chief Minister will consider this request again from time to time, especially once all matters concerning the post-acquisition activity of the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company 295 purchase have been concluded. To move on to the questions from the Hon. Member for Douglas South, let’s get this straight: disclosure in Tynwald and disclosure to Committees of Tynwald and disclosure in the House is determined by Standing Orders and the etiquette of this House, and so it seems to me we have got to all remember that and make sure that we do the right thing in the public interest, 300 remembering that Tynwald is the people’s parliament in the Isle of Man for thousands of years and it is right that the right information is given in answer to questions and to select committee inquiries and so on. So that is one point. The Information Commissioner has powers under the Freedom of Information Act, and I for one respect those powers and I think – I hope – we all do, and I hope the wider public does. It is 305 not a question of looking foolish. Quite often the exact meaning of section 30, section 34 and section 35 needs to be interpreted and it needs to be interpreted more than once often, because there is nothing so strange as humans and the way things develop and there are always new situations where we need interpretation. So I certainly would not feel foolish if the Information Commissioner ruled that an officer of Government making a decision had not made 310 it right first time. I would take that as validation of the Freedom of Information Act and the process enshrined in it. The third point that the hon. questioner from Douglas South makes is that the directors have an obligation, a fiduciary obligation, and I am sure they know that – otherwise they would not be directors, and if they do not know that they will not be directors for very long. So the directors, 315 both of the transitional board and of the final board, will be making decisions about what they should be disclosing according to company law and according to the norms that are set for them inside the User Agreement and other type arrangements – the shareholder agreement and other type arrangements that we have. So, all those people need to be mindful of their responsibilities and the right information that 320 needs to be disclosed will be identified and that information will be made available. I am absolutely sure that Hon. Members in this House will make sure that we fulfil our obligations inside Tynwald Court, I am sure that the directors will do the right thing because we will appoint the right directors, and I am absolutely sure that the Freedom of Information Act will work perfectly. 325 Just to remind Members, there is not actually an obligation in the Freedom of Information Act to publish anything. There is an obligation to disclose the information to the person who has made the request, but that is not quite the same as publishing information, so we still need this Hon. Court to make information available that needs to be made available.

330 The Speaker: Supplementary question, Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can the Minister advise, to make it really clear and to put it on record, what single company the people of the Island own, or whether there is a group of subsidiary companies within that

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335 that the people need to be aware of? Would he either put it on the record now or circulate it to Members, please?

The Speaker: Mr Thomas to reply.

340 The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Oftentimes stories develop legs and start running that there are all sorts of hidden depths and assets that have not been transferred. I can absolutely categorically assure the Manx public and everybody sitting here in this House that the Government has sufficient due diligence to know that it has done the right thing with the public money in terms of the acquisition. 345 I have already said that I have not got it in front of me and I have not followed the finer details because those things have been handled by Treasury and Infrastructure – probably the Chief Minister would have known – but what I will do is make sure we circulate exactly the information on the legal structure now, probably coming from the Chief Minister himself or the Treasury, or Infrastructure or whoever it is who is responsible for providing that information.

TREASURY

1.4. Government sales, purchases or contracts – Commercial confidentiality

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

What the policy is in relation to commercial confidentiality with respect to Government sales, purchases or contracts?

350 The Speaker: Question 4. I turn to the Hon. Member for Onchan, Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister for the Treasury: what is the policy in relation to commercial confidentiality with respect to Government sales, purchases or contracts? 355 The Speaker: In the absence of the Treasury Minister, I call on Mr Shimmins to answer.

A Member of the Treasury (Mr Shimmins): Thank you, Mr Speaker. The policies in relation to commercial confidentiality sit with the individual Departments and 360 boards. In terms of the sale and acquisition of property, these are generally reported in the press and should be publicly available through the Land Registry. Lease agreements for a term of 21 years or more would be available in the same way. In relation to contracts, these are normally prepared by the Attorney General’s Chambers 365 and the standard agreement is based upon a presumption that the content of the contract will not be confidential. This presumption is subject to each particular Department or board’s policy on this issue or, in the absence of such policy, on an individual matter by matter basis. The Attorney General's Chambers have no power to insist a contract is not confidential and there is no such requirement in the Isle of Man Government Financial Regulations. This presumption of 370 disclosure is subject to variation at the request of the Department or board, as it may be the case that a Department or board is asked to seek confidentiality for all or part of a contract by the other party. For example, this may be relevant to charges in intellectual property rights.

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During any tender process for the award of contracts there is a presumption that the tender process is confidential to avoid prejudicing any subsequent contractual war. 375 The Speaker: Supplementary question, Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you for that comprehensive response from the Hon. Member for Middle. 380 I would just like to ask, with regard to the response that you have just given to me, is Treasury confident that the procedure is being put into place by individual Departments? Is he confident that it is equal throughout those Departments and does he feel that perhaps Treasury should be giving some guidelines to Departments to ensure that there is a process in place? Or does he feel that it should be part of the procurement policy and included within that? 385 The Speaker: Mr Shimmins to reply.

Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you to the Hon. Member for Onchan for her supplementary question. 390 On one hand there is an understandable desire for transparency, but on the other hand it does make sense to encourage as many people as possible to bid for Government contracts to maximise the value for the taxpayer. So it is really quite difficult to generalise across Departments and across different contracts and I suspect that that is why there is no Government-wide specific policy on this and things are looked at on a Department by 395 Department basis and on an individual contract basis, and in many ways that feels the most appropriate solution.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mr Perkins.

400 Mr Perkins: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank the Member for Middle for his frank appraisal of the procurement system and the two hands which we have in play for this. On the Island we have got a monopoly situation that often occurs and particularly in bidding for Government. In the past we have had two suppliers bidding for certain things and only one 405 can win the contract. The result of that has been that the second company has been closed down because they have thrown in the towel because the owners cannot see any way forward. Would the Hon. Member agree with me that tender confidentiality is vitally important in the procurement process, but that Government procurement officers should be able to use their initiative and sometimes split these bids to make sure that we do not get left with one monopoly 410 company and we have two to make sure that in future we cannot be held to ransom by one company? Thank you, Mr Speaker.

The Speaker: Mr Shimmins to reply, but I just want to warn Hon. Members that this is not 415 going to be a Question Time about procurement policy; it is quite specifically about commercial confidentiality. Mr Shimmins.

Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and yes, the question does stretch a wee bit from the 420 original Question. Tender confidentiality is important, commercial confidentiality is important; it is important for the people that are bidding for the contracts and also important for Government. What I would say to the Hon. Member for Garff is I have seen situations in the past 18 months where contracts have been split. And so, whilst there is a framework in place there is always an

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425 exception. Those exceptions tend to get presented to Treasury for approval, in some circumstances, but I have seen that happen.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft.

430 Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Could I ask the Member answering for the Minister to take it back to the Department and see if they would actually have a look at the contract side of this? I can understand why, when it is going out to tender, it has to be commercial, but once the tender process is complete and you have the final contract, the signature, has each Department instructed the Attorney General’s 435 that their policy is that they prefer confidentiality, or is it presumed, unless the Departments tell them that there is going to be a commercial confidentiality clause included, that it is included? Certainly I was given a document that contained a commercial confidentiality clause which I had removed because there was no rationale for it being there. So I am just wondering what the Attorney General’s Chambers has been told by the individual Departments, or whether it is on a 440 case by case basis or a blanket ‘from this Department everything is commercial confidentiality’. Obviously, I know the Member will not have that response at this time, but if he could find it out and certainly have a look at the process and see if it is adequate and fit for purpose with the Minister, I would be grateful.

445 The Speaker: Mr Shimmins to reply.

Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I note the comments made by the Hon. Member for Douglas South and am certainly happy to take those comments on board. 450 I would stress it is difficult to generalise on this issue because the nature of contracts across Government is a very wide and complex area and I do suspect that there will be an ongoing need to consider confidentiality on a case by case basis, simply for the reasons that I already alluded to this morning.

455 The Speaker: Supplementary question, Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to ask the Hon. Member a couple of questions. In the other House last week – this is commercial confidentiality with regard to purchases and sales of properties in particular – 460 my hon. colleague from Onchan, Mr Callister, stated what I could only think was starting a Dutch auction with regard to the sale of 6 Kingswood Grove, because that information was out in the public domain with regard to what the Government Valuer had put on the property and then within the debate it was stated that it could be sold for less than what the Government Valuer had put on it. 465 So I would like to know whether Treasury need to put a policy in place – I think they certainly do, bearing in mind that debate last week. And also I would like to know if the Minister would commit to providing to the House a list – of any properties, land or sales that have been sold in the last year – to Members, so that we can see what the Government valuation was and what we actually received for the properties for the people of the Isle of Man with their money. 470 The Speaker: Mr Shimmins to reply.

Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would refer the Hon. Member for Onchan to my initial Answer, which explained that the 475 sales of property in the Isle of Man are a public matter and all the details that she requires are available at the Land Registry.

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1.5. Purchase of Steam Packet Company – Reserve funds utilised

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

Which reserve funds were utilised to pay for the Steam Packet?

The Speaker: Question 5. I turn to the Hon. Member for Douglas South, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 480 I ask the Minister for the Treasury, or the Member answering for him: which reserve funds were utilised to pay for the Steam Packet?

The Speaker: Again, I call on Mr Shimmins to reply on behalf of the Treasury Minister.

485 A Member of the Treasury (Mr Shimmins): Thank you, Mr Speaker. Payments for the purchase of the Steam Packet Company were made from cash reserves that had been built up over a number of months in anticipation of the requirement: £104 million, which may otherwise have been transferred to the Reserve Fund, was held in cash; the remaining £20.2 million was funded from working capital. 490 The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. When he says they were paid from cash reserves which had built up, going back to the 495 Written Answer of 12th June, is that the internal cash reserves of just over £334 million or the Reserve Fund account of £362 million?

The Speaker: Mr Shimmins to reply.

500 Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The purchase was made available from reserve funds and cash held in reserve by Government.

The Speaker: Mrs Beecroft. 505 Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I realise the Member does not have the details of the answer available to him today, but if I could ask him to refer back to the Minister for the Treasury’s Written Answer on 12th June and maybe circulate a definitive answer as to which of those reserves was used and by how much? 510 Thank you.

The Speaker: Mr Shimmins.

Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 515 I would be happy to circulate further detail on the makeup of the funds. I would explain that funds move across the Cash and Reserve Fund on a regular basis, as you would expect, in the day to day management of the Government’s finances, but I am happy to circulate further information.

520 The Speaker: Final supplementary, Mrs Beecroft.

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Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It just arises from the Member’s response to that because in the written response it says, ‘The Reserve Fund’ – which is the one that had £362-odd million in – ‘is the only general reserve 525 without a specific purpose.’ That is why I am asking the question as to which of the reserves – just to clarify for the Member why the question is being asked and what was said on that date, in an effort to be helpful.

The Speaker: Mr Shimmins. 530 Mr Shimmins: Thank you. I note that clarification and we will provide the information requested.

1.6. SAVE Programme – Expenditure incurred to 26th June 2018

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

On 26th June 2018 what will have been spent on the SAVE Programme broken down by (a) all reports; (b) officer time; and (c) any other expenditure?

The Speaker: We turn to Question 6 and I call on the Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew, Mr Moorhouse. 535 Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to ask the Treasury Minister: on 26th June 2018, what will have been the spend on the SAVE Programme broken down by (a) all reports; (b) officer time; and (c) any other expenditure? 540 The Speaker: I again call on the Member of the Treasury, Mr Shimmins.

A Member of the Treasury (Mr Shimmins): Thank you, Mr Speaker. The published SAVE progress report cited the total cost related to the two phases of the SAVE 545 Programme. Phase 1 costs were a total of £29,755 and phase 2 costs, up to September 2018, are estimated to be £324,963. Phase 1 costs have already been provided within a Written Keys Question from 19th June and the following is committed within the SAVE Programme and covers the anticipated costs for the period from February 2017 to September 2018: (a) all reports, external costs, £178,177; (b) staff 550 costs, £178,761; (c) other expenditure, £15,780. Please note the estimated amounts include direct internal staff costs but do not include senior staff time as there are no records available to determine this.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mr Moorhouse. 555 Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you, Member of the Treasury. In terms of your Answer, towards the end you were going into no detail on how the officer time was broken down. Is it possible to push a bit further in that area, in terms of how that data for officer time was calculated? 560 The Speaker: Mr Shimmins to reply.

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Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I do not have that information available. I am happy to discuss the officer time with Mr Moorhouse if he wishes to do so. 565 The Speaker: Supplementary question, Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank the Hon. Member for that breakdown, which I did ask the Treasury Minister for 570 during the debate last week. With regard to the spend, I am quite concerned really that we are spending so much money trying to achieve something that we might not achieve and we are trying to make savings within areas that are perhaps less than the amount that is getting spent. With regard to senior officers’ time and that it is not available, perhaps there are records 575 available within the systems within Government with regard to time off in lieu for officers when they are attending meetings outside of their normal workload. The Treasury could perhaps calculate an estimate to add to this amount for the time off that people take when they are attending extra meetings outside of the normal working hours to ensure that the likes of the SAVE Programme are successful. 580 The Speaker: Mr Shimmins to reply.

Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I note the Hon. Member for Onchan’s concerns about the costs. Clearly, exploring efficiency 585 opportunities is a sensitive issue. It impacts on individuals and as such it is correct that we investigate these opportunities professionally and fully consider any decisions prior to these being made. I would stress that one envisages that these are one-off costs but that the savings are recurring every year going forward, so we need to look at them on that basis as we look to 590 secure added value for the taxpayer and put our financials on a sustainable basis. In terms of the specific question about further granular analysis of senior officer time and what it is spent on, I do think we need to avoid creating a cottage industry which in itself will create additional costs. I understand the Hon. Member’s sentiment on this, but I do question really what will be the benefit that that provides that is actually worth the additional time and 595 cost.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 600 Given the size of the spend and the complexity of the data provided, would it be possible to circulate to Members a breakdown of the costs and how the costs have been calculated, and ideally potentially going into some areas suggested by Ms Edge?

The Speaker: Mr Shimmins to reply. 605 Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would stress that the SAVE Programme is an ongoing programme, and so whilst I understand the Hon. Member’s desire to make sure that it is being operated on an efficient basis, I do question whether that will really help, given that it is a fast-moving programme and 610 lots of different things are being been looked at from time to time.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mr Baker.

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Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 615 Would the Member of the Treasury agree with me that the scale of the SAVE Programme, targeting £25 million worth of recurring savings, is ambitious and that Treasury and the wider Isle of Man Government has to be prepared to invest in order to find those savings in what is quite a complex environment; and in that context and in the scale of the financial challenges that we face, the spend that he has identified, of less than £400,000, which is less than 2% of the 620 target savings which are going to recur annually, is an extremely modest and completely proportionate amount of expenditure, and frankly some of this questioning is really missing the point?

A Member: Hear, hear. 625 The Speaker: Mr Shimmins.

Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would agree with a number of the comments that the Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael 630 has made. It is an ambitious project as we look to secure much-needed efficiency gains to ensure our financial sustainability. I would reiterate the point that I made earlier: these are sensitive areas and it is important that we do this work with the highest degree of rigour.

635 The Speaker: A final supplementary question on this from Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would just like to ask the Member of the Treasury … and also reiterate what Mr Baker has just said, that they are modest, they are extremely modest. 640 How is Treasury going to ensure that our chief executive officers and senior officers are driving through these changes effectively and making these savings which should be part of the normal running day and working of their commitments to their Departments and to the spend of the budgets that they control for the Isle of Man?

645 The Speaker: Mr Shimmins to reply.

Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I do think we are moving some way from the remit of the original Question, which was a breakdown of the costs. 650 I think we all have a responsibility to look at efficiency in Government and how we spend taxpayers’ money, so I would suggest that yes, Treasury does have a responsibility in this matter but every Member in this House and every senior officer in Government has that shared responsibility.

EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE

1.7. DSC performance – How assessed and date of last Ofsted report

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture:

How the performance of the Education Department is assessed; and when the last Ofsted report was published on the performance of the Department? ______1051 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

The Speaker: Question 7. I call on the Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew, 655 Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture: how is the performance of the Education Department assessed and when was the last Ofsted report published on the 660 performance of the Department?

The Speaker: I call on the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture to reply.

The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture (Mr Cregeen): Thank you, Mr Speaker. 665 The Department encompasses a range of activities and, like other Government Departments, these activities are evaluated in a number of ways. The Department, of course, is subject to public scrutiny and in particular it is monitored regularly by the Social Affairs Policy Review Committee and by Tynwald. As with all Government Departments, political Members oversee and monitor the work of 670 the Department, assessing performance continuously. The Department also receives regular reviews of its work by Internal Audit. As the Hon. Member will recall, Tynwald also accepted the review of the Scottish Inspectorate in 2016 – the initial review undertaken in 2013, which included much of the Department’s work. 675 Although it performs some of the functions of a local education authority, DESC is not an LEA. Rather, it is an arm of Government which now includes arts, employment skills and sport. All DESC’s functions are subject to a period review undertaken by Treasury’s Assurance Advisory Division. Financial performance is continually monitored and monthly management accounts produced. Financial performance is also reviewed as part of the annual Budget process. 680 In fact, DESC is currently piloting priority-based budgeting to support more effective allocation of resources across Government. As regards Ofsted inspection, Hamilton House had an Ofsted inspection in 2002. This led to the creation of the Education Improvement Service and we went from two advisers to five. Thank you, Mr Speaker. 685 The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr Speaker. And thank you, Minister, for that detailed answer. Given the growth in the Department and the changes continually ongoing, would it be a good 690 idea to actually have more regular updates in terms of inspections from external education professionals, just to give us the overall reflection on what is happening within those key areas of the Department?

The Speaker: Unusually, the Minister to reply. 695 The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. As the Member will know, as a past teacher, the discussion I have had with teachers is that they would not wish to see Ofsted operate in the Isle of Man. (Mr Robertshaw: Hear, hear.) The Department is monitored externally by individuals who review the Education 700 Improvement Service and that is the position that the Department has taken.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

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705 Can I ask the Minister, if he does not have it with him today, if he could circulate what the cost of the current system of review is? Also, when was the last time he actually went out to the teachers to ask whether they would be willing to have Ofsted in? And as they are the professional organisation that assesses and reviews education anywhere else, why is there such resistance to have it back on the Island? 710 Also, I think his Department is an LEA, or else they would not be able to enter examinations: you do have an LEA number.

The Speaker: Minister to reply.

715 The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Department is reviewed externally. There are two independent bodies that come out and review what the Department is actually undertaking. When I last discussed this with the teachers? I constantly discuss matters with teachers. I have regular meetings with all the unions and one of the Issues that is raised is that they would 720 not wish to see Ofsted on the Isle of Man because we would be in the situation of teaching to a level that Ofsted wish, not the performance of the children in a greater extent. So I would ask the Hon. Member a similar question: when was the last time she spoke to a teacher who said they would wish to have Ofsted over here?

725 The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mr Robertshaw.

Mr Robertshaw: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Would the Minister agree with me that we need to be extraordinarily careful about pursuing the concept of Ofsted inspections, because to do so would ensure that we would end up 730 slavishly following the UK model when in fact we should have the courage and determination to do better than the UK?

The Speaker: Minister to reply.

735 The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would concur with those comments. Why would we follow a system which is quite clearly broken in the United Kingdom (Mr Robertshaw: Hear, hear.) when we should actually be looking to improve those services? I do not think that it is our idea to follow a system that is broken.

740 A Member: Hear, hear.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 745 Thank you, Minister, for the ideas you are putting forward. It does concern me, though, that we seem to have shifted in terms of where we are going. We seem to be looking at Ofsted within schools.

The Minister: No, we are not. 750 Mr Moorhouse: The priority of the Question was actually looking back towards the Department, towards those advisers, towards the managers, towards the team that is actually going out and checking our schools on a regular basis – and trying to work out whether these advisers are receiving the best and most modern training, whether they are aware of the best 755 practices. It is really that area of the Department I am concerned about in terms of are they being actively assessed.

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The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 760 I am sorry to say to the Member again: please listen to the Answer. I did say that they are externally monitored.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Ms Edge.

765 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Wouldn’t it be great if we on the Island had an Ofsted inspection and we were outstanding? That is the result that we would probably get, because we are always told we are leaders within education. I would just like to also bring back to the Member that perhaps if we did have … You say that 770 we are externally assessed. I am surprised, if we are externally assessed, that we have had the situation that we have had at Castle Rushen High School with regard to the examinations. I am pleased that the Minister has decided that he will get his advisers – which have gone from two to five – to check that the schools are teaching the right curriculum. So there is a positive in there. 775 The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is really amazing. We have got the Member questioning about spending on SAVE to try and 780 save money, and then the next thing is we are encouraging an external body to come into the Isle of Man to assess to the standards that they do in the United Kingdom. If we have a different system to the United Kingdom, why would we want to slavishly follow the United Kingdom? It seems absolutely ridiculous when we have a system that is working – if the teachers are happy with the system and if the unions are happy with the system and the Isle 785 of Man’s system is actually held in great esteem by those people who actually have the majority of teaching staff – that we would want to change that system. The issue regarding Castle Rushen High School – yes, there was an error made by a member of staff. If the Hon. Member has never made a mistake, please put your hand up and say you have never made a mistake.

1.8. Behaviour of school teachers – Process of investigation following accusations by colleagues

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture:

What process is followed during an investigation into a school teacher’s behaviour once an accusation is made by a colleague of bullying, victimisation or harassment?

790 The Speaker: I need to move on. Question 8.

Ms Edge: The Minister did not answer about the costs.

The Speaker: Order! 795 Question 8. Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew.

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Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture: what process is followed during an investigation into a school teacher’s behaviour once an accusation is made by a 800 colleague of bullying, victimisation or harassment?

The Speaker: I call on the Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 805 The process of dealing with an allegation of bullying, victimisation or harassment made by any staff member against a colleague would follow the process detailed in the Isle of Man Government Fairness at Work Policy and Guidance. As this is a corporate policy, it would be applicable regardless of the specific terms and conditions of the individuals involved. This gives the option of various informal routes or early intervention – including, for example, facilitated 810 meeting or mediation. If, however, an investigation is required, the designated manager would acknowledge receipt and inform the respondent of the allegations. The designated manager would produce a terms of reference for an appointed investigation officer. Once investigation is completed, the report will be submitted to the designated manager, who would decide on the appropriate action. A 815 summary of the findings of the report would be provided to both parties. Only if the investigation is followed by formal proceedings – for example, disciplinary hearing – would the full investigation report containing the original complaint, appendices and witness statements be shared with the appropriate parties.

820 The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you, Minister. If a teacher is completely exonerated following the investigation, what actions, if any, will be taken against the person making the accusations? And will they subsequently be reviewed, for 825 example after six and/or 12 months?

The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 830 Unfortunately, I have not got anything on that, but I will give the answer to the Member in due course.

1.9. Student loans – Repayment on completion of studies

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture:

What the timescale for students is to receive letters with regard to repayment of loans on completion of their studies?

The Speaker: Question 9. I call on the Hon. Member for Onchan, Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 835 Can I ask the Minister for Education: what is the timescale for students to receive letters with regard to repayment of loans on completion of their studies?

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The Speaker: I call on the Minister for Education to reply.

840 The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture (Mr Cregeen): Thank you, Mr Speaker. Approximately 1,500 loan statements were issued to all students who had an outstanding loan by the Department in the week ending 15th June 2008. The loan statements were issued in respect of student loan agreements with the Department covering their annual £2,500 universal contribution towards university tuition fees, with the balance of these fees being met by the 845 Department in most cases. The Department’s intention is to issue future loan statements in January and July of each year and the Department is also investigating having an online portal for these.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Ms Edge. 850 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am pleased that the Minister has agreed to do these annually, because I am aware that the letters that have just gone out are two or perhaps nearly three years out of date. Could the Minister advise what amount of money is outstanding for the 1,500 letters that 855 have gone out recently?

The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 860 Unfortunately, I do not have the amount. But on the outstanding, these are letters at the end of their course. Letters are not issued on a yearly basis.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Ms Edge.

865 Ms Edge: Can the Minister then come back and confirm – I do not mind if he has not got the answer today – the 1,500 letters that have gone out: were they for people who have only completed within the year, or are there some in there where people completed their studies two, three or maybe four years ago?

870 The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I will get back to Hon. Members.

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND AGRICULTURE

1.10. Groudle Glen – Condition as public amenity

The Hon. Member for Garff (Mrs Caine) to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture:

Whether he is satisfied with the condition of Groudle Glen as a public amenity; and if he will make a statement?

The Speaker: We turn to Question 10 and I call on the Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine.

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875 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture: whether he is satisfied with the condition of Groudle Glen as a public amenity, and if he will make a statement?

The Speaker: I call on the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture to reply. 880 The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Boot): Thank you, Mr Speaker. A number of organisations have elements of responsibility for Groudle Glen, which can add some complexity as to how it is maintained. In summary, most of the Glen is in the ownership of Onchan Commissioners and some areas are leased to the Department to maintain the paths for 885 public access. Other interested parties include Groudle Glen Railways and neighbouring properties, which sometimes brings issues with access, sewage management, easements and wayleaves. The paths from the railway station to the beach are in private ownership; however, their upkeep is the responsibility of the Department of Infrastructure under licence. Onchan Commissioners have ownership and responsibility for the waterwheel and therefore any repairs 890 and maintenance lie with them. As the nearest glen to the Island’s most populated area, Groudle receives considerable use and serves as an important amenity to the residents and visitors. In addition to routine maintenance work, the Department spends significant time and resources working in Groudle Glen reacting to access safety issues. The increase of severe weather events in recent years has 895 not helped matters and the Department deals with a range of issues as quickly and effectively as it can to maintain the glen in a safe condition. A detour route has been created and opened this weekend – or last weekend – to provide a safe route around a closed section of path following a fallen tree blocking part of the footpath. In recent weeks we have had a team working in the glen undertaking maintenance and improvement works, including repairs following incidents of 900 vandalism. The work has included step, bridge and boardwalk repairs, fallen tree removal, internal and external repairs to the bandstand vandalism and path clearing. The Question effectively asks whether the current condition of the glen is satisfactory. Clearly expectations will vary across different stakeholders and the Department must take a reasonable approach, working within our resources, to provide a satisfactory standard for users of the 905 public estate – and there are 18 other glens to consider. We continually seek to improve the service that we provide to the public and I am satisfied that we respond in a timely manner to issues that occur outside of routine maintenance. I am aware that the Department of Infrastructure had met with my Department’s Fisheries team regarding carrying out repairs to the walkway in the area that they maintain under licence 910 and it was agreed that the repair works can be carried out if it is possible not to disturb the riverbed. I understand the DoI are hopeful that this work will go ahead within the next month or so. Looking ahead, plans are already being developed to improve and create new sustainable footpath sections within the glen, in particular where river erosion has been instrumental in the 915 deterioration of the path towards the upper end of the glen and where it is clearly uneconomic and unsustainable to keep repairing the same routes annually in the knowledge that the same damage will be incurred year after year. Additional funding to improve our glens announced in this year’s Budget will help deliver these improvements over the coming years. Providing sustainable access to the Glen is a key objective of the future plans for the glen and we will 920 continue to work with partners to achieve this.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Caine.

Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 925 I thank the Minister for his detailed Answer. I would just like to query a couple of points.

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In the Budget, DEFA promised to maximise the benefits of the UNESCO Biosphere accreditation for the Isle of Man and there was a pledge of £1 million to be spent on glens. Could he give an indication what portion of that has been spent at Groudle compared with other glens? 930 In terms of the footpath access, would he accept that the lack of access has had a serious impact on, for instance, the railway passengers accessing the railway? And does he feel that the glen itself and the condition, for instance, of the wheelhouse that Onchan Commissioners seem at the moment to have no intention and no budget to repair …? Would it be better if his Department, similar to the other national glens, had ownership of Groudle Glen? 935 The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker – a complex array of questions there. In terms of maximising Biosphere status and the grants available, we are working through, as 940 I pointed out earlier, some 18 glens, all of which have competing requirements in terms of maintenance and improvement. Groudle Glen is a high priority because of its proximity to a large population area and we are doing our best to maximise the grant availability, but that grant money is available over a rolling period – I believe it is three years – so it is not going to happen instantaneously. 945 With regard to the lack of access to the railway, we try and respond where we can as quickly as we can; but, for instance, in the last few weeks we have had competition for resource in Colby Glen, Glen Helen and Glen Maye, to name just a few. Our team is only large enough to cope with certain aspects of the required works and we have to work on this glen in connection with the DoI as well. Yes, lack of access will have an impact, but we try and remedy that as quickly as 950 possible. With regard to Onchan and their ownership of the wheel, I think it is sad that they are not able to grasp the nettle there and do something about it. I understood from earlier questioning in the Keys that a voluntary group had come forward to look at the wheel and perhaps carry out some maintenance work, but I understand subsequently that that has not occurred. But that is 955 down to Onchan Commissioners, not my Department. Then you ask about whether we should own all the glens. Well, we actually own most of Groudle Glen and it is the lower part which is in private ownership. I do not think there is any prospect of us being able to buy that, but the other 18 glens are in public ownership, plus around 26,000 acres of upland in the Isle of Man which DEFA and DoI have maintenance 960 responsibilities on and where public access is available. This is a large estate.

Standing Order 3.5.1(2) suspended to complete Questions

The Speaker: Now, Hon. Members, I have come to the end of the hour allotted to the Questions, however … Mr Ashford.

Mr Ashford: Mr Speaker, I beg to move the suspension of Standing Order 3.5.1(2) so the 965 remainder of the Question Paper can be taken.

The Speaker: Mr Callister.

Mr Callister: Happy to second that, Mr Speaker. 970

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The Speaker: In which case, we will put that to the vote: 16 votes required in order to continue with Questions.

The Secretary: It is taking its time. 975 The Speaker: In which case, we will try it this way: those in favour of suspending Standing Orders, say aye; those against, no. I think there are 16 there! (Laughter)

Groudle Glen – Supplementary questions continued

The Speaker: In which case, I move on to the next supplementary question, which is in the hands of Mr Moorhouse. 980 Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Given the Minister’s huge timetable at the moment, have you been able to visit many of the glens around the Island recently?

985 The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you. Yes, Colby Glen recently, Glen Helen, Glen Maye and I did, earlier in the year, go to Groudle Glen as well. It is my intention on a rolling basis to look at the public estate, get around, and 990 certainly spent some time in the upland areas looking at those over the last few months, and that is fairly pertinent as we are carrying out a review of farm subsidy and how we are going to deal with the upland areas as an environmental Biosphere asset.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mr Callister. 995 Mr Callister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I noted that the Minister mentioned that they were currently removing a tree that had fallen on the path. Can I just ask the Minister if he also has a duty of responsibility under the licence to remove other trees that fall within the land that is under that licence? 1000 Thank you.

The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: It is our policy to remove trees that either block the river or pathway or are a 1005 danger to the public. In terms of how the glen looks with trees that fall down, it is a fact that fallen trees are a great asset for biodiversity (A Member: Hear, hear.) and rotting trees are sometimes left for that purpose. People who live in towns – and I am generalising here – tend to have a view that everything should look neat and tidy in the countryside. Well, the reality is the countryside renews itself 1010 and part of that process is trees falling down, rotting, and new trees growing.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Caine.

Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 1015 The Minister said rotting trees are good for biodiversity; I would suggest to him that a rotting wheelhouse of a Victorian feature is not particularly good for biodiversity.

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I draw the Minister’s attention to the Onchan Commissioners’ minutes of 21st May responding to my correspondence with them and confirming that Mr Pete Geddes was prepared to put together a volunteer team with some collaboration amongst other Onchan residents who 1020 are keen. However, it was met very cautiously by Onchan Commissioners. They are prepared to host another meeting, but they do not wish to proceed because they cannot see the justification for their ratepayers. And a cautionary note from the deputy clerk over consequences which should occur should the building of the wheelhouse collapse into the river does not seem to have had a response. 1025 So would the Minister be content that the Onchan Commissioners’ policy seems to be to let it fall down because there is no benefit to the ratepayer; and would he feel that perhaps there is more benefit that it is taken into national ownership and there is a benefit for the wider public amenity of Groudle Glen?

1030 The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: I think we are straying off the remit of the Question here into ownership and maintenance of the waterwheel. My observation on this is that the Department has offered to meet with Onchan 1035 Commissioners – in fact, they already have done so – but the wheel is their responsibility. The ratepayers are members of the general public on the Isle of Man and it is part of their asset. I think it really is down to the Onchan ratepayers to bring pressure to bear on Onchan Commissioners, not keep referring it to my Department where we have no responsibility. The sums of money involved, from what I understand informally, are not that great to carry out 1040 some basic maintenance. I would like to see that happen and I am sure ratepayers in Onchan would. They utilise the glen probably more than anyone else and at the end of the day it is an asset for them.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Ms Edge. 1045 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr Speaker – and I will have to declare an interest as an Onchan ratepayer. I just wonder whether the Minister can advise – because clearly the local Commissioners are not prepared to commit a sum of ratepayers’ money – are there any grants available from his 1050 Department to ensure that we keep our Biosphere going, and is there any possibility that he could perhaps meet with the local MHKs and the Commissioners to discuss whether there is a way forward, that if they cannot afford £20,000 we perhaps have a system in place where they could get a grant that is paid back over a period of time to ensure that we get this fantastic asset within Onchan, which people view, is published as a historical piece and tourists visit? Is there a 1055 possibility that we can move forward on this?

The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: I find it quite amazing the Commissioners of a large area of urbanisation in the 1060 Isle of Man – Onchan – cannot find £20,000, but that is obviously their decision; they make it, we have no influence over how they run their affairs. As for making a grant or loan available, I really do not see us doing that. If they do not see that as an asset for their area, then I think that is a very sad thing and I think perhaps the local MHKs should bring some pressure to bear on Onchan Commissioners and make them realise 1065 what an asset they have.

A Member: Hear, hear.

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The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Caine. 1070 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Just a final point. As well as the aesthetic of the maintenance of the wheelhouse, would he be concerned, in terms of biodiversity, if the wheelhouse ultimately is swept away in one storm and crashes and falls through the river? Would that not be of concern to DEFA and would that 1075 bring him to the table with Onchan Commissioners to try to find a solution?

The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Well, it is slightly sort of threatening, that is – ‘is it going to fall into the river 1080 and who is going to be responsible for it?’ The last time I looked at the wheelhouse it was in a deleterious state and it could do with some maintenance, but it certainly did not look as though it was going to fall in the river. Onchan Commissioners are responsible for the wheelhouse. Happy to have some discourse with them from my Department as to how they proceed, but inevitably they are responsible for 1085 it and if it falls in the river it is their responsibility. I do hope that does not happen and that hopefully they will take on board what is going on here and realise they have asset. I think the amount of money involved in actually maintaining that asset it is very small – but it is their asset, not ours.

1090 A Member: Hear, hear.

HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE

1.11. Oncotype DX tests – Policy and plans for making available to NHS patients

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

What his Department’s policy is on Oncotype DX tests; and what plans he has for these to be available to NHS to patients on the Island?

The Speaker: Question 11. I call on the Hon. Member for Douglas South, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care: what is his Department’s policy on 1095 Oncotype DX tests, and what plans has he for these to be available to NHS patients on the Island?

The Speaker: I call on the Minister for Health and Social Care to reply.

1100 The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): Thank you, Mr Speaker. I can confirm that the Department is aware of the UK NHS and National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) guidance regarding the use of Oncotype DX testing and that the team at Noble’s Hospital is currently considering options for introducing Oncotype DX testing for patients in the Isle of Man. The Department will explore the possible benefits of adopting these 1105 tests and looking at any future recommendations which may be laid out for the UK NHS and also by NICE.

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The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 1110 I am glad that the Minister is having a look at this, but could he tell me why it has not already been implemented? On his Department’s website dated 2nd June 2017 – I will not read all of it out, but part of it says:

The DHSC will fund new cancer drugs once they have been approved for routine use in the NHS in England by the National Institute of Health and Care Excellence (NICE) as these are included in Cheshire and Merseyside protocols.

And further on down it says:

Note: Isle of Man residents requiring specialist cancer treatment funded by DHSC receive this through hospitals within Cheshire and Merseyside. It is therefore appropriate for DHSC to fund treatment in line with the protocols followed by these hospitals.

So they are following the protocols of the hospitals and it has NICE approval, and unless I am 1115 misreading this statement online that is what the Department says it will follow.

The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 1120 As I am sure the Hon. Member for South Douglas is aware, NICE actually revised its guidance in relation to Oncotype DX testing in January of this year. It actually reversed its guidance of 2013 in relation to its use and its limited use and will now be coming forward with further guidance, which is due to be published on 12th September 2018, which of course could also, depending upon what they come out with, have an impact on its use within the UK NHS. 1125 One thing I am delighted to tell the House, Mr Speaker, is that within the last week I have been speaking with a charity that we are going to hopefully partner with to at least introduce some limited testing of this while we await the outcome of the NICE review in September.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft. 1130 Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Could the Minister confirm – I hope he knows the figures, but if he does not, if he could get them – the figures for people who have actually paid out of their own pocket prior to NICE reversing their decision or putting a hold on it, whatever the terminology was, in January; how 1135 many people it affected prior to that date, who paid £2,500 out of their own money for something that we actually committed to provide, and if that was before the revision of NICE? And would he please publish when NICE do publish? I think he said it was 12th September it was due. Would he make it publicly known, so that the public are aware of what their expectations can be from his Department? 1140 The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. All NICE guidance is actually published on the NICE website. It will be publicly available. 1145 Hopefully, like I say, NICE is aiming for 12th September 2018 for its updated guidance. In relation to the numbers and figures, they will not actually exist, Mr Speaker, as far as I am aware, because if someone has paid for it privately we will not necessarily have a record of that. I should also point out, just for clarity in relation to this testing, it does not apply to everyone, so it is not in relation to all breastcare patients. There are certain criteria that the patients must

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1150 meet. So, for instance, the Oncotype DX is only recommended as an option for chemotherapy decisions in relation to oestrogen receptor positive patients, lymph node negative and also the human epidural growth factor receptor to negative in early breast cancer care. Also, even with that in mind, people even then have to be assessed as being at an intermediate risk and the information on the biological features of the cancer provided by the test is actually likely to help 1155 in predicting the course the disease would follow. So it is not open to everyone anyway and one of the key things about this test is that it is a guide. I have spent quite a bit of time over the last week or so – and I thank the Hon. Member for the Question because it has been very interesting – looking at a lot of the research papers around this test and I most certainly concur that it does seem to be a very positive test. Some of 1160 the work done by the Albert Einstein Institute in New York has shown marked improvements in certain women who have undertaken this test in the fact that they may not have to undergo the very stressful experience of chemotherapy and can focus on radiotherapy as well. So it is something that I am keen to monitor and, as I have said in the previous answer, Mr Speaker, it is something that I think we can work on with one of the local charities to do a 1165 limited run of this, but also awaiting the NICE revised guidance on 12th September 2018 with interest.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft.

1170 Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Would the Minister confirm if anybody who has paid the £2,500 because they believed they were not eligible under the guidelines as they existed at that time … would he be prepared to have those cases reviewed to ensure that it was because they did not meet the other criteria? And just a final supplementary, which I am pretty sure that he will agree with. The research 1175 that has been carried out in New York shows up to a 70%, I think it is, success rate in detection and deciding whether women should have chemotherapy or not. Hopefully, if the tests continue to show such a good result it would result in a lot of women not having to have chemotherapy where they did not need to. And apart from the human aspect, it would actually be beneficial cost-wise to his Department. 1180 The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I have got to say that a lot of what the Hon. Member has just said there I fully agree with. The 1185 research, as she quite rightly says, in New York is showing that approximately 70% of women who undertake this test may well avoid chemotherapy. In fact, that is also backed up by research that is being done within the UK as well. Just to give the House some figures, approximately 55,000 women in the UK are diagnosed with breast cancer each year and, to put a bit of clarity around what I was saying before, 1190 approximately 23,000 of those would be eligible for the test. So it is roughly around about just under 50% of women in the UK who have breast cancer occurrence who would be able to undertake this test to see if they can avoid chemotherapy. In relation to those who have already paid, at the moment this is not available on the Manx NHS, so I think what we need to be doing is looking forward rather than backward and treating 1195 those who come forward, depending upon the NICE guidance issued on 12th September 2018. I should also point out that of course this is gene profiling and Oncotype DX is not the only test that is available – one of those old things about adverts: other brands are available – and that is something we need to look at as well.

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INFRASTRUCTURE

1.12. Groudle Glen – Condition of footpath

The Hon. Member for Garff (Mrs Caine) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

Whether he is satisfied with the condition of the footpath at Groudle Glen, maintained under licence by his Department?

The Speaker: Question 12, and I call on the Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine. 1200 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister for Infrastructure: whether he is satisfied with the condition of the footbath at Groudle Glen maintained his licence by his Department?

1205 The Speaker: I call on the Minister for Infrastructure to reply.

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Thank you, Mr Speaker. My Department is not satisfied with the current condition of the footpath, which has suffered substantial damage over the winter. 1210 Officers from my Department have consulted with colleagues in the Department of Environment, Food and Agriculture and developed a substantial repair programme that will not require the river to be entered or fish disturbed. The project is now being delivered on site.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Caine. 1215 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I wonder if the Minister is aware it is not just one winter that the path has been impassable, it is for a couple of winters, and perhaps a complete new reroute is needed down there. Could I ask: would the Minister agree it would be better that the whole of Groudle Glen was 1220 under public ownership and the comprehensive management under DEFA as a national glen? Is the Minister aware that Groudle Holiday Cottages are currently being offered for sale? Can I ask: is he prepared to investigate purchasing the land used as part of the amenity of Groudle, including the Groudle railway lands, so that they could become a national glen to be maintained accordingly? 1225 A Member: What about the waterwheel?

The Speaker: Minister to reply.

1230 The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I suppose the difficulty is that it is down to priorities. Obviously we are coming through to the Budget process, so I would ask the Member to perhaps put forward a submission to Treasury.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Caine. 1235 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Could I suggest to the Minister that actually the amenity lands at Groudle, the actual area is probably not a huge amount and one would suggest perhaps to Onchan Commissioners and also the other landowner that this would be perhaps seen as a liability and that actually there might 1240 not be a significant cost in acquiring it for the nation?

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The Speaker: I am conscious that the Question is talking about the condition rather than the purchase, but Minister, do you have anything?

The Minister: Only to say I only have a rough … I do not know if it is appropriate, but the 1245 valuation that I have goes into millions for purchasing the land. Obviously it is all about priorities, and obviously this possibly falls into a wider picture. There is nothing really much to add. Obviously there are many priorities that we have to look at and obviously this falls into it. The immediate concern, and certainly what I was concerned with, with regard to the Question, was the condition of the path and action is now being taken.

1.13-14. Sale of Middlemarch site – Proportion of proceeds in respect of inflation; pre-sale valuation

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

13. How much of the proceeds from the sale of the Middlemarch site were in respect of inflation, due under the terms of the option agreement? 14. Whether a current valuation was carried out before the sale of the Middlemarch site? 1250 The Speaker: Questions 13 and 14, again being substantially similar, will be grouped together, obviously with plenty of opportunity for supplementary questions. I would ask Mrs Beecroft, Hon. Member for Douglas South, to read Questions 13 and 14.

1255 Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister for Infrastructure, firstly, how much of the proceeds from the sale of the Middlemarch site were in respect of inflation due under the terms of the option agreement; and secondly, whether a current valuation was carried out before the sale of the Middlemarch site? 1260 The Speaker: I call on the Minister for Infrastructure to reply.

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Thank you, Mr Speaker. In answer to the first part of the Question, the sum calculated, prescribed in the option 1265 agreement, is £766,528. With regard to the second part of the Question, a valuation was not carried out at the time of the sale because the method of calculation of the selling price was defined in the options agreement. This itself was based on the valuation undertaken at the time of purchase.

1270 The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Firstly, regarding the sale proceeds, when the Government said they made a profit on the sale it actually was not profit in real terms because the only excess money that they received, 1275 according to the Minister’s response just now, was in fact inflation, which was included in the option agreement. So they knew what they were going to get to start with, provided the option was taken up, and that was the amount of the inflation, so there was no profit made in real terms; it was purely inflation. Secondly, regarding the valuation, when it was being purchased it said:

In this manner the taxpayer is protected from any fall in value of the site.

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1280 How do we not know that we lost out on the site? How do we know what its true value was if a valuation was not taken at the time when the option was exercised?

The Speaker: Minister to reply.

1285 The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think a profit is a profit. The bottom line is that there was agreement, there was an option on that agreement and the option was exercised, and I really do not have much further to say on this.

1290 The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mr Baker.

Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Would the Minister agree with me that when you enter into a contractual obligation such as an option agreement that defines the sale price and gives the third party an option to buy the 1295 property at that price, there is very little point in either worrying about whether you have made a gain or a loss or valuing what it would have been worth if you could have sold it to somebody else that you could not actually sell it to?

The Speaker: Minister to reply. 1300 The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I completely agree – just taken the words right out of my mouth.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Ms Edge. 1305 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Would the Minister not agree with me that this has been going on a long time and that, with regard to what the Sefton have actually achieved, it is keeping 300 jobs alive on the Isle of Man in conjunction with the Government and also a revenue into the Government? I think they have 1310 probably contributed nearly £1.9 million into Government during the time that they have been renting the piece of land off you and I think it has been a good way forward for Government and we have protected jobs on the Island – 300 – and I think most of the people would be grateful for that.

1315 A Member: Hear, hear.

The Speaker: I am not sure there was a question in there, Minister, but if you have a go.

Ms Edge: Does the Minister agree? 1320 The Minister: I agree. (Laughter)

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft.

1325 Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. With regard to the previous question and answer, could the Minister confirm that this deal actually had nothing to do with the Sefton because they had sold their subsidiary company to another entity by then, so by the time that the option was exercised, which went with the company that was sold, it had nothing whatsoever to do with the Sefton? 1330 Would you not agree that when you say you have made a profit it means usually you have made a profit in real terms, not just that you have got your inflation back, and you cannot say

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you have made a profit – you can say that you have regained your inflation but you cannot say you have made a profit – unless you actually know what the value of the land is at the time of the sale? 1335 The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you. I feel like I am a chair between two questions, so I really cannot get into that. 1340 The thing is, the sentiment I agree. I think it is a good-news story in the sense that we have sold the property. I understand developments are taking place. In terms of how the contract was agreed, whatever basis you want to use that agreement, that was the option, they exercised their option and we received more than we bought it for. That is it, really. Sorry, I do not really know where it is going and I have nothing really further 1345 to add.

A Member: Hear, hear.

The Speaker: A further opportunity to demand a question, Mrs Beecroft. 1350 Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think the Minister missed my first question of those last ones, which was: could he confirm that actually it has nothing to do with the Sefton Group at the moment because that option belonged to a subsidiary which was sold to another entity prior to the option being exercised? 1355 The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you. As I said, I have already given information about all the companies and the purchase of those 1360 companies. It is part of a bigger positive picture. That is really where I was coming from.

The Speaker: Final supplementary, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 1365 If I could just try that again, and if he has not got the information maybe he could circulate it, but could he confirm that when the option was exercised, it belonged to a company that was previously a subsidiary of the Sefton Group but was not at the time because it had been sold to another entity, so that when the option was exercised by Middlemarch Ltd it had nothing to do with the Sefton Group because it was owned by another entity? 1370 If he has not got that information, could he please look it up and circulate it to all Members because it is actually quite important?

The Speaker: Minister to reply.

1375 The Minister: Thank you. I think what I was trying to do is … the sentiment of Middlemarch and what the site will now be used for is a positive story. In terms of the detail, I think I have already circulated that, but I am more than happy to circulate it all again.

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POLICY AND REFORM

1.15. Public sector pension schemes – Intention to bring motion to July sitting of Tynwald

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform:

Whether he plans to bring a motion in respect of the public sector pension schemes, including the cost of the legacy payments, to the July sitting of Tynwald?

1380 The Speaker: Question 15. I call on the Hon. Member for Douglas South, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Could I ask the Minister for Policy and Reform: whether he plans to bring a motion in respect of the public sector pension schemes, including the cost of the legacy payments, to the July 1385 sitting of Tynwald?

The Speaker: I call upon the Minister for Policy and Reform to reply.

The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you, Mr Speaker. 1390 Yes, I do. Dramatic pause. (Laughter) Would you like to know any more information? A very comprehensive report is being considered by the Council of Ministers this week for inclusion on the Order Paper for the July sitting of Tynwald. The report includes a full analysis of the legacy costs associated with public sector pensions and analyses a variety of options for addressing the matter. The report will include recommendations on how to take the matter 1395 forward. I will ensure that there is a presentation to Members of Tynwald in advance of the debate as well as further opportunities thereafter to contribute to the development of policy in this area.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft. 1400 Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank the Minister for Policy and Reform for his positive response on this matter. Could he also confirm that we will get the options and the detail regarding those options in sufficient time to allow us to study them in detail, properly and correctly, before the debate in 1405 Tynwald?

The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and for that helpful question. 1410 This is a massive topic. Sit down and feel comfortable – the report is massive. It does include details about all of the options. You will have the report and the public will have the report with the Order Paper and I believe the presentation will be slightly before the Order Paper is published. I respect completely the sentiment which I believe is behind the question, which is that this is 1415 such a massive issue we might well need more time than just the two weeks that we have running up to the Order Paper to address an issue that has been building for two, three, four decades. That is something that I would like to test in the debate that will result from the report when it comes forward on 18th July, from memory, or the July sitting of Tynwald. So, to answer, yes, the report includes lots of information about the options. I, for one, am 1420 looking forward to the debate. The Council of Ministers has got to decide Government business for July as per the normal schedule in which Government business is decided, but certainly one

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of the issues for me and many of my colleagues is that this is such a massive issue we are going to need months rather than weeks to make sure we do justice to this huge challenge that we have, which we are rising to and we will overcome. 1425 The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Would the Minister for Policy and Reform consider actually producing the report to Members 1430 prior to the presentation that we have to go with it? When you are given such a huge report and the presentation at the same time, you have not had time to absorb the report to ask the relevant questions at that point. It would be helpful if it is published before the presentation, if at all possible. Thank you. 1435 The Speaker: Minister.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I note the request and will do everything I can to make sure that request is given importance 1440 and circulate the decision.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you.

ENTERPRISE

1.16. Registration of beneficial ownership – Process re dispute resolution and completion of annual returns and declarations

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Enterprise:

What the complaints and dispute resolution process is for issues related to beneficial owners registration and the completion of annual returns and declarations?

The Speaker: Question 16. I call on the Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew, Mr Moorhouse. 1445 Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister for Enterprise: what is the complaints process for issues related to beneficial owners’ registration and the completion of annual returns and declarations? 1450 The Speaker: In the absence of the Minister for Enterprise, I call on Mr Hooper to respond.

A Member of the Department for Enterprise (Mr Hooper): Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Department, and specifically the Companies Registry, is responsible for maintaining the 1455 Isle of Man database of beneficial ownership. The database is online and accessed via the gov.im portal, which is operated by the Cabinet Office. In regard to complaints or disputes concerning the database, there is no specific complaints and dispute resolution process, as any complaints are dealt with under the Department’s general complaints policy, full details of which can be found on the Department’s webpage.

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1460 Issues with the gov.im portal in the first instance should be directed to the Cabinet Office, which has a similar complaints process. As Members are aware, the database was delivered against a challenging deadline and this was only achievable because the new register is paperless, with information being submitted online. It was recognised that this might present an issue to some users. In anticipation of this, 1465 the Department ran a media campaign under the banner ‘Keep good company’, including a direct mailshot to all nominated officers and corporate service providers that were to be affected by the Act. Further information, in the form of videos and how-to instructions, are also available on a dedicated webpage www.gov.im/BOA In the last 12 months close to 5,000 distinct users have registered with the site, the vast 1470 majority of whom have required no assistance from the Registry. I am pleased to say there have been no formal complaints. Hon. Members will appreciate the database contains sensitive information, and so users must be authenticated via an enrolment code before being allowed access to the database. Some users do encounter problems at this stage, or indeed within the beneficial ownership 1475 system itself. In these instances the Registry staff work with the customers to identify any issues and resolve them. Customers are welcome to visit the Registry, where it offers one-to-one assistance if preferred.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mr Moorhouse. 1480 Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you, Member for Enterprise, for such a detailed Answer. I might have been concerned about the Answer prior to what happened last week, but last week I had an issue and it was dealt with so effectively by the officers I feel that the Answer is 1485 perfect. (Several Members: Hear, hear.) In terms of going forward, there is just one slight issue, and that relates to online services. They are currently provided through the Welcome Centre. Under normal conditions this is fine, but given the low numbers of staff employed there, how is it possible to provide a premier service during busy times and breaks? 1490 The Speaker: I call on the Member to reply.

Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank the Member for commenting on the quality of the original Answer. 1495 I am concerned with his follow-up. I am not sure what he means when he is referencing the Welcome Centre for the provision of online services. Online services, by their very definition, are provided online and if he could perhaps clarify, that would be helpful.

Mr Moorhouse: Yes, to just clarify, in terms of the beneficial owners register, one of the 1500 numbers goes through to the Welcome Centre, and in terms of availability it is not fully staffed at all times. So I was just wondering if that could be looked at, so you always get this perfect service.

The Speaker: In fairness, the Member of the Department for Enterprise is possibly not going 1505 to be on top of staffing issues in the Cabinet Office – but, Mr Hooper.

Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr Speaker. In respect of help and assistance for people who need that with regard to the beneficial ownership database, the staff at the Registry itself, at the Companies Registry, are more than 1510 happy to provide the one-to-one assistance during the Registry’s opening hours, but if the Member has any particular concerns I am happy to pick that up offline with him.

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CHIEF MINISTER

1.17. TAXE 3 – Action taken

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Chief Minister:

Further to his statement on 26th March this year, what action has been taken by TAXE 3; and if he will make a statement?

The Speaker: Question 17. I call the Hon. Member for Douglas South, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 1515 I would like to ask the Chief Minister: further to his statement on 26th March this year, what action is being taken by TAXE 3, and if he will make a statement?

The Speaker: I call on Mr Thomas to reply on behalf of the Chief Minister.

1520 The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you, Mr Speaker. I understand the Hon. Member is referring to the oral evidence the Chief Minister provided to the Tynwald Economic Policy Review Committee on 26th March. In his response he advised of the establishment of the European Parliament’s TAXE 3 Committee. The Chief Minister set out that the European Parliament had adopted a 1525 recommendation from the PANA Committee, which was established following the release of the leaked Panama Papers by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists in April 2016, to form a special committee to ‘follow up on the work of the PANA Committee and to investigate the recent Paradise Papers revelations’. Since being established, the TAXE 3 Committee has held a number of hearings, including an 1530 examination of money laundering in the EU banking system and harmful tax practices within the European Union and abroad. The committee has looked into the place of crypto currencies in taxation and money laundering and recently the committee held a workshop to analyse whether the Paradise Papers show loopholes in the EU tax legislation and whether further action needs to be taken. 1535 The committee will also engage with EU commissioners to follow up on previous recommendations concerning the fight against money laundering, the road map and methodology towards the establishment of an EU list of high-risk third countries and the future action of the Commission concerning golden visas or citizenship programmes aiming at providing tax privileges to foreigners. 1540 The TAXE 3 Committee has so far received evidence from a number of sources, including members of the European Union Commission, the charity sector and journalists. On 12th April the committee agreed to visit the Isle of Man and we have been approached at officer level to convey the wish of the committee for a visit to take place in early October. We are at a very early stage with discussions on a visit and the potential programme to assist with 1545 the committee’s work. The TAXE 3 Committee is due to produce its full report and findings on financial crimes, tax evasion and tax avoidance in April 2019.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft. 1550 Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. On 26th March it stated that you were waiting for communication from the committee to see what they may look at. I am assuming by the detailed Answer – for which I thank the Minister

______1071 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

for Policy and Reform – that the list was provided. Could I ask if he would clarify whether they 1555 have looked at everything that is on that list, or is there work still outstanding?

The Speaker: Mr Thomas to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 1560 No, I think that is not quite the case that has been presented to me by the officers and the Chief Minister. I think we have had an initial indication and an agreement for a visit programme and the provisional dates of the programme but now we are at the stage of actually preparing for that visit, and so I do not think we are at the stage of having specific questions. So the details of the programme are yet to be worked up, but when they are worked up they will be worked 1565 up collaboratively between officers of the Isle of Man Government and EU parliamentary officers. As always is the case with the Isle of Man, we are transparent, we are open, we are proud of what we have achieved and we will share that with whoever is interested to help them come to the right conclusions in terms of how they take forward tax evasion, anti-money laundering and 1570 all of the other issues that the EU Parliament is investigating through its special committee.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 1575 Could the Minister for Policy and Reform confirm then that where it says:

So that has been taken forward and they have elected who will sit on that panel. We are just waiting for communication from them of what they may look for from the Island.

that statement has been overtaken by the information that he has given this House today?

The Speaker: Mr Thomas to reply.

1580 The Minister: Overtaken in time, but I think the sentiment was genuinely expressed, which is the committee mentions Crown Dependencies in its terms of reference, so it is obvious that they will do a proper investigation, and I would hope they would certainly do a proper investigation and want to know the truth of the situation in each of these areas. So now a provisional date has been established for the investigation. The date when the 1585 special committee is due to report is established: April 2019. Our officers are following thoroughly all of the evidence that has been received by the committee in the hearings and the investigation, so we are on top of their agenda and we are listening to what they are saying and what everybody else is saying to them. We are preparing for it fully, but the actual meeting in October is at the early stages of 1590 preparation and is followed properly by Government officers and also by Government Ministers through the National Strategy Group particularly, the Subcommittee of the Council of Ministers that considers these things.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Ms Edge. 1595 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can the Minister advise with regard to this committee – because one of the areas that they are looking at is a common consolidated corporate tax base – have we and all the officers that are following this carefully done any impact assessment as to what effect this could have on the 1600 Island?

______1072 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

The Speaker: Mr Thomas to reply.

The Minister: Yes, the Department for Enterprise, a crucial member of the National Strategy 1605 Group, and the impact of everything that is likely to be on the agenda is constantly being assessed for impact assessments. I will make sure that officers help me put together a very precise definition of potential impacts that we have considered and circulate that to this Branch of the Hon. Court.

1610 The Speaker: Final supplementary, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think the Minister may already have covered it – I would just like to ask for confirmation that Members will be kept up to date with events and progress on this matter. 1615 The Speaker: Mr Thomas to reply.

The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, and to the hon. questioner. I think the Chief Minister is very keen to make sure that Hon. Members are fully involved in 1620 the international agenda across the piece. We have periodic briefings to Members and on behalf of the Chief Minister I repeat that the Chief Minister will do everything he can to keep Members as involved in the developing process as he possibly can.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you.

TREASURY

1.18. Importation of business jets – Progress re HM Treasury assessment

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

What progress has been made regarding the assessment by HM Treasury into the practice for the importation of business jets; and if he will make a statement?

1625 The Speaker: Question 18. I call on the Hon. Member for Douglas South, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to ask the Member answering for the Minister for the Treasury: what progress has been made regarding the assessment by HM Treasury into the practice for the importation 1630 of business jets; and if he will make a statement?

The Speaker: I call on Mr Shimmins, Member of the Treasury, to reply.

A Member of the Treasury (Mr Shimmins): Thank you, Mr Speaker. 1635 HM Treasury’s draft report of their findings of the assessment is expected to be shared with Treasury within the very near future. Once received, Treasury will have two weeks to comment on the draft.

______1073 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

INFRASTRUCTURE

1.19. Provision of sea services – Shorter crossing times and lower fares

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

What action he plans to take in relation to implementing bullet point 5 of the eight strategic principles for the provision of sea services?

The Speaker: We turn to Question 19. I call on the Hon. Member for Douglas South, 1640 Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Could I ask the Minister for Infrastructure: what action he plans to take in relation to implementing bullet point 5 of the eight strategic principles for the provision of sea services? 1645 The Speaker: I call on the Minister for Infrastructure to reply.

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Thank you, Mr Speaker. I assume that the Hon. Member is referring to the shorter crossing times and lower costs of 1650 travel. Following the decision taken in Tynwald last month, I can advise, subject to Tynwald approval, a new sea services agreement is to be signed between the Department of Infrastructure and the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company Ltd within 12 months. My Department has started the process to consider the social and economic needs of the Isle 1655 of Man. Once these have been determined they will be considered in relation to the strategic sea services policy. This will include consideration of the issues contained in bullet point 5, bullet point 5 reading:

Reduced duration of crossings and lower costs of travel encourage more frequent short stay travel, reduced business costs and faster delivery times;

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft.

1660 Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Could the Minister confirm how this ties in with the messages that we are getting from other Ministers, particularly the Treasury Minister, that it is unlikely that fares will be reduced because obviously the money is going to be needed for the purchase of the new vessels and to give a return to Treasury eventually on their investment in the company? So how can he plan to 1665 comply with that policy that has already been stated about reducing the duration of crossings and lowering the costs of travel?

The Speaker: Minister to reply.

1670 The Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. For the Department, in many ways nothing has changed. We will negotiate with the Steam Packet for both these points in terms of lower costs of travel and reduced duration of crossings.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mr Callister. 1675 Mr Callister: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

______1074 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

Can I just ask the Minister for just one clarification there, because he just talked about a new sea services agreement being put in place in the next 12 months – can he just confirm that that agreement will be debated on the floor of Tynwald Court, as previously agreed? 1680 The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Absolutely, I am very happy to confirm that.

1.20. Purchase of Steam Packet Company – Ensuring no direct costs to taxpayer

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

How his Department sought to ensure that there are no direct costs to the taxpayer for the provision and implementation of a reliable sea service during the purchase of the Steam Packet Company?

The Speaker: Question 20. I call on the Hon. Member for Douglas South, Mrs Beecroft. 1685 Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Could I ask the Minister for Infrastructure: how his Department sought to ensure that there are no direct costs to the taxpayer for the provision and implementation of a reliable sea service during the purchase of the Steam Packet Company? 1690 The Speaker: I call on the Minister for Infrastructure to reply.

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Thank you, Mr Speaker. While I note the Hon. Member’s Question relates to one of the eight strategic principles in 1695 the strategic sea services policies, these principles relate to securing an overall policy objective which was endorsed by Tynwald Court. That overall objective was that the Department will intervene in the ferry services market to the extent that it is necessary to provide for the social and economic requirements of the Isle of Man. I would suggest that also the cost of providing a reliable sea service falls on to the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company Ltd. Likewise, the income 1700 from that service accrues to the company. Given the historical trading position, the owners of that company can reasonably expect that it will make a profit. The fact that the shareholder is currently the Treasury does not change the position of the current Linkspan User Agreement, and therefore I am confident that the change in ownership does not mean that the taxpayer will incur costs for the provision of a reliable sea service. 1705 The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Could the Minister explain then how the money, that has already been expended, I assume, 1710 because Treasury now own the shares and … Where did that money come from if it was not directly from taxpayers’ money?

The Speaker: Minister to reply.

1715 The Minister: Thank you.

______1075 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

As far as my Department is concerned, it is business as usual with the Steam Packet and the Department, in line with the provisions of the current User Agreement. I would remind the Hon. Member that Tynwald has committed to the negotiation of a new User Agreement within one year of purchase. The Department intends to negotiate with the 1720 company in the same way it would have been done with the previous owners.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 1725 Can I remind the Minister that it is his own Department’s report dated November 2016, which was approved in Tynwald in December 2016, that says at 5.6:

Protecting the Taxpayer –The Department will seek to ensure there are no direct costs to the tax payer for the provision and implementation of a reliable sea service.

How can he relate this to the money that has been expended directly from taxpayers’ money?

1730 The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Again, I think the point has been missed here, and the main point is that the policy is the Department will intervene in the ferry service market to the extent that is necessary to provide for the social and economic requirements of the Isle of Man. 1735 So, at that point when brought into another place, this policy, it was the fact that we would intervene – we would not just have laissez-faire and allow things to carry on and see what happened. It was a very important point at that point; that is why we brought it. We brought all of that information. We did not rule out any options at that stage and certainly that policy does not rule out, nor does the strategic services policy that my Department brought to Tynwald rule 1740 out, purchasing the Steam Packet Company. In fact, that allowed, as my hon. friend talked about, all sorts of other options. There is no direct cost in providing those sea services, so I do not see a conflict at all. There was no conflict mentioned at that time and there was no conflict mentioned by the Member or anyone else, because we talked about all of those options within that. 1745 At the end of the day, the company is likely, as I said, to make a profit. It is from reserves, as has already been highlighted. I do not see a conflict.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mr Baker.

1750 Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Would the Minister agree with me that there is a complete difference between buying a business which provides a service and incurring costs directly in providing and implementing that service; and that, with due respect to the Hon. Member for Douglas South, she is missing the point? 1755 The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you. I would agree, it is actually missing the point. There is a complete difference in buying a 1760 company and in the operation.

______1076 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

1.21. Sea services policy – Commitment to avoid direct costs to taxpayer

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

Whether he considered bringing a revised sea services policy to Tynwald prior to the purchase of the Steam Packet Company in light of the existing policy’s commitment to avoid direct costs to the taxpayer?

The Speaker: Question 21. Again, I call on the Hon. Member for Douglas South, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Again, I would like to ask the Minister for Infrastructure: whether he considered bringing a 1765 revised sea services policy to Tynwald prior to the purchase of the Steam Packet Company in light of the existing policy’s commitment to avoid direct costs to the taxpayer?

The Speaker: I call on the Minister for Infrastructure to reply.

1770 The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): As I have already confirmed to this Hon. House, it is intended that a new sea services agreement will be signed within a year. That agreement will be aligned with the social and economic needs of the Isle of Man. Should it be determined that negotiations regarding a new agreement are in conflict with the sea services policy, any need to return to Tynwald with a revised policy will be considered at that 1775 time.

The Speaker: Supplementary question, Mrs Beecroft.

Mrs Beecroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 1780 Maybe it is the Minister who is missing my point. Tynwald had an approved policy and I am asking him if he can … I am not talking about the agreement, I am not talking about the purchase of the Steam Packet; I am talking about the policy. I am asking him if he considered bringing a revised sea services policy to Tynwald prior to the purchase of the Steam Packet.

1785 The Speaker: Minister to reply.

The Minister: No, and we have purchased the Steam Packet.

The Speaker: Hon. Members, that concludes Questions for Oral Answer. 1790 Item 2 is Questions for Written Answer and those will be circulated later today, as usual.

______1077 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

2. Questions for Written Answer

CHIEF MINISTER

2.1. Previous political decisions overturned – Breakdown for current administration

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Chief Minister:

If he will provide a breakdown of any previous political decisions overturned by (a) each of his Ministers and (b) Council of Ministers, during the current administration with the reason why?

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): I will commit to providing information in due course in relation to any previous political decisions that may have been overturned by Ministers or by the Council of Ministers during this administration. It should be recognised that formulation of Government policy is an adaptive, responsive 1795 process during which decisions are taken which may then evolve or alter as requirements are modelled and moulded in order to form policy which is value for money, fit for purpose, modern and meets the needs of our Island community.

TREASURY

2.2. One penny increase in Income Tax/NI rates – Estimated additional revenue

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

How much a one penny increase in (a) the Income Tax rate and (b) National Insurance rate would raise?

The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Applying current rates and allowances to the data for the 2016-17 tax year, being the latest full set of information available to the Assessor of 1800 Income Tax, the estimated additional revenue generated would be as follows:

1% increase in 10% lower rate of income tax £2.8 million 1% increase in 20% higher rate of income tax £7.1 million 1% increase in the rate of employee’s National £8.9 million Insurance Contributions1 1% increase in employer’s and employee’s National £17.8 million Insurance Contributions1

1 Both National Insurance Contribution projections assume that the 1% increase is applied both to the primary rate and additional rate of National Insurance.

______1078 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

2.3. Capital projects – List of approved projects awaiting funding

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

If he will provide a list of all capital projects, at the end of April 2018 approved by Tynwald but not fully paid for, together with the amounts needed to complete them; and from which of the Reserves will be funded?

The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Table 2.3A showing current capital projects approved by Tynwald and not yet complete, as well as most recent projections of amounts 1805 needed to complete them is attached hereto. Due to the commercial sensitivity around procurement of non-tendered elements a breakdown of future costs has not been detailed but has rather been shown with an overall total figure per year. The capital programme is subject to annual review and therefore costs and phasing to 1810 completion are subject to fluctuation. Additional information is published in the Budget (Pink Book) as well as in the Detailed Government Accounts (Light Blue Book) which will be laid before July 2018 Tynwald.

Table 2.3A CAPITAL EXPENDITURE

COMMITTED AND ONGOING £'000

Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Total Expected Expected Expected Expected Expected Expected Dept. Scheme Name SPEND TO TOTAL FUNDING Tynwald Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend Further 20180331 Approval 18/19 19/20 20/21 21/22 22/23 Spend

MCW - CO Technology 250 250 250 250 250 250 250 1,500 CLF Technology - Land Registry IT System. 1,950 280 1,539 1,819 CLF Essential Building Maintenance 1,850 1,484 368 250 250 250 250 2,852 CLF Farming Improvement Scheme 1,420 1,176 1,176 CLF MCW - National Glens & Footpaths 400 400 100 100 200 200 1,000 CLF Mill Road Yard Development 2,892 2,844 105 2,949 CLF Public Analyst Lab - Equipment Replacement 191 138 138 CLF Wildlife Park - Redevelopment 50 50 50 CLF Castle Rushen DESC High School 600 36 500 536 CLF Covered Play and Teaching Areas 260 1 246 247 CLF DDA Works to Department Sites 572 547 500 500 500 500 2,547 CLF Management of Hazardous Materials 1,103 886 136 1,022 CLF

______1079 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

COMMITTED AND ONGOING £'000

Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Total Expected Expected Expected Expected Expected Expected Dept. Scheme Name SPEND TO TOTAL FUNDING Tynwald Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend Further 20180331 Approval 18/19 19/20 20/21 21/22 22/23 Spend

MCW - Regional Pools 474 537 220 150 150 150 150 1,357 CLF National Sports Centre - Pool Hall 3,105 146 3,000 500 100 3,746 CLF School Security 848 22 798 820 CLF St Mary's Extension Scheme 3,803 321 2,901 600 3,822 CLF St Ninian's Lower School, Bemahague 33,845 33,634 210 33,844 CLF UCM - Construction Craft & Engineering 4,914 4,816 100 4,916 CLF Villa Marina Sound System 800 800 800 CLF Communications Development Programme 4,379 3,873 352 4,225 CLF Equipment Replacement - Police 562 449 126 80 80 735 CLF Joint Douglas Fire and Ambulance Station 500 14 475 489 CLF Police HQ Custody Block 2,994 2,950 2,950 CLF Rehabilitation and Resettlement Unit 200 57 32 89 CLF Vehicle Acquisition 3,184 2,765 2,765 CLF Day Care Services - Eastcliffe 5,486 1,865 2,500 700 300 5,365 CLF Endoscopy Decontamination Unit 1,998 1,901 1,901 CLF GP Surgery Development - Peel 400 400 400 CLF Learning Disabilities - Radcliffe Villas 800 24 24 CLF Learning Disabilities - Residential Unit 1,438 1,382 40 1,422 CLF MCW - Asset Replacement Scheme 8,907 6,801 1,300 1,000 1,000 1,000 1,000 12,101 CLF Medical Staff - Residential Accommodation 2,511 2,153 150 2,303 CLF Older Persons RRU - Summerhill 374 514 127 641 CLF

______1080 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

COMMITTED AND ONGOING £'000

Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Total Expected Expected Expected Expected Expected Expected Dept. Scheme Name SPEND TO TOTAL FUNDING Tynwald Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend Further 20180331 Approval 18/19 19/20 20/21 21/22 22/23 Spend

Purchase of Salisbury Street Nursing Home 8,100 7,711 7,711 CLF Radiology Equipment Replacement 2,750 1,394 550 500 500 500 500 3,944 CLF A5 Road DOI Reconstruction CLF Active Travel 590 590 1,425 1,303 489 3,807 CLF Airport Rehabilitation (pavements) 250 250 250 CLF Airport X-Ray Machines Upgrade 3,651 2,700 2,700 CLF Ambulance Fleet Replacement 2,592 2,108 347 310 310 310 1,115 4,500 CLF Ballacubbon Housing Development 180 150 150 CLF Ballasalla Relief Road 50 35 35 CLF Bay View Road, Port St Mary CLF Climate Change Adaption 4,650 1,850 2,436 4,286 CLF DDA - Public Buildings 750 483 137 100 30 750 CLF Douglas Outer Harbour Development 510 56 354 410 CLF Douglas Promenade 24,980 3,540 7,201 7,000 5,000 1,841 24,582 CLF East Quay Peel 207 177 177 CLF EFW Control Emissions Monitoring 385 385 385 CLF Glencrutchery Road Reconstruction 250 137 170 65 65 2,455 2,260 5,152 CLF Hazardous Waste Transfer and Treatment Facility 480 467 467 CLF Heritage Rail - (MER) Trackwork 4,320 1,119 1,694 1,844 1,830 1,665 7,210 15,362 CLF Heritage Rail - Ballamenaugh Sub-Station 350 341 341 CLF Heritage Rail - Ballure Bridge 1,425 1,369 1,369 CLF Heritage Rail - Derby Castle Sheds (MER) Cladding 510 510 510 CLF Heritage Rail - Douglas Railway Station 1,210 1,163 45 1,208 CLF

______1081 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

COMMITTED AND ONGOING £'000

Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Total Expected Expected Expected Expected Expected Expected Dept. Scheme Name SPEND TO TOTAL FUNDING Tynwald Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend Further 20180331 Approval 18/19 19/20 20/21 21/22 22/23 Spend

Heritage Rail - Horse Tramway Depot 1,500 1,500 CLF Heritage Rail - Nunnery Bridge 800 30 758 788 CLF Heritage Rail - SMR Track 5,605 4,234 775 5,009 CLF Heritage Rail - Snaefell (MER) Tram Shed CLF Heritage Rail - Steam Railway Track 2,643 1,090 1,210 2,300 CLF Heritage Trail Improvements 600 600 245 845 CLF House Purchase Assistance Scheme 3,000 1,000 500 500 500 500 500 3,500 CLF Lezayre Road 475 475 475 CLF Liverpool Landing Stage 11,254 1,280 10,450 17,240 28,970 CLF MCW - DHA. 200 200 200 200 200 200 1,000 CLF MCW - DHSC 4,194 3,056 930 656 500 500 500 500 6,642 CLF MCW - Education and Children 20,401 19,696 2,710 2,000 2,000 2,000 2,000 2,000 32,406 CLF MCW - Government Estate 5,616 3,626 1,838 500 500 500 500 500 7,964 CLF MCW - Nobles Hospital (Compliance) 555 36 515 551 CLF MCW - Nobles Hospital (Plant & Machinery) 1,956 818 1,270 675 495 3,258 CLF MCW - Villa/Gaiety. 200 200 200 200 200 200 1,000 CLF MCW - Wildlife Park. 175 175 150 100 100 100 625 CLF Peel Harbour Bridge Replacement 395 6 350 15 371 CLF Plant & Vehicle Replacement 16,410 12,524 4,029 3,200 3,200 3,200 3,200 31,888 61,241 CLF Port St Mary Alfred Pier 400 266 134 400 CLF Public Transport - Banks Circus Road Renewal 690 690 690 CLF Public Transport - Bus Fleet Replacement 12,484 11,397 1,571 934 1,044 891 4,606 20,443 CLF Pulrose River Bridge 200 12 50 62 CLF Raggatt Landfill 300 300 240 540 CLF Ramsey Station 1,050 839 1,696 1,796 4,331 CLF Ramsey Swing Bridge Refurbishment 1,300 1,298 1,298 CLF

______1082 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

COMMITTED AND ONGOING £'000

Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Total Expected Expected Expected Expected Expected Expected Dept. Scheme Name SPEND TO TOTAL FUNDING Tynwald Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend Further 20180331 Approval 18/19 19/20 20/21 21/22 22/23 Spend

Residential Road Refurbishment 975 76 775 500 500 500 500 2,851 CLF Runway Instrument Landing System 1,000 1,000 500 1,500 CLF Runway Visual Range Measurement 100 100 100 CLF Small Plant Depot 158 158 158 CLF Strategic Highway Refurbishment 22,589 23,078 2,900 3,400 3,400 3,400 3,400 17,414 56,992 CLF Strategic Structural Maintenance 6,153 5,217 1,690 1,540 1,540 1,540 1,540 6,652 19,719 CLF Technology - Asset Management System 120 50 75 125 CLF Vehicle Test Centre Relocation 250 250 250 CLF West Quay Ramsey 90 40 40 CLF Clagh Vane DOI- Redevelopment HR 7/8 8,440 734 6,329 98 7,161 HRF Crossag Ph 1 714 172 490 662 HRF MCW - Housing Planned Works 23,841 21,849 1,900 1,900 1,900 1,900 1,900 1,900 33,249 HRF Broadcasting MANX House RADIO Refurbishment 969 969 CLF MCW - Broadcasting House Maintenance 1,655 50 150 150 150 150 150 800 CLF Heritage Property MNH Conservation 1,221 1,048 1,048 CLF MCW - MNH 2,116 1,949 154 300 190 200 200 370 3,363 CLF Combined Cycle MUA Gas Turbine 12,286 7,621 4,600 12,221 CLF MCW - MUA 6,739 2,508 1,682 1,430 1,024 900 2,250 8,150 17,944 CLF Refurbishment of Local Sewage Treatment Works 3,498 1,067 2,454 3,521 CLF Regional Sewage Treatment Works for Peel, Laxey and Baldrine 2,950 1,023 1,400 2,423 CLF Regional Sewerage Strategy 1 39,984 29,014 91 29,105 CLF Sewer Flood Alleviation 1,999 517 1,300 1,817 CLF

______1083 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

COMMITTED AND ONGOING £'000

Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Total Expected Expected Expected Expected Expected Expected Dept. Scheme Name SPEND TO TOTAL FUNDING Tynwald Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend Further 20180331 Approval 18/19 19/20 20/21 21/22 22/23 Spend

Sewers Network Refurbishment 25,475 27,395 2,050 29,445 CLF FSA STAT- Infrastructure FSA Costs 50 CLF Technology - FSA New System 500 450 450 CLF STAT - Technology - GSC GSC New System 500 250 250 CLF Capital Projects Contingency TSY Fund 4,928 5,000 5,000 5,000 5,000 5,000 5,000 34,928 CLF Technology - Operational Change Programme 3,131 3,098 3,098 CLF Grand Total 471,873 327,871 116,782 62,389 37,833 34,831 30,280 90,315 700,301 CLF

Table 2.3B FUTURE £'000

Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Expected Expected Expected Dept. Scheme Name Expected Expected TOTAL FUNDING Spend Spend Further Spend 19/20 Spend 20/21 21/22 22/23 Spend Technology - Passports & CO Immigration System 400 600 1,000 CLF Ballure Slope Periodic DEFA Maintenance 100 100 100 300 CLF Public Analyst Lab - Equipment Replacement CLF Wildlife Park - Redevelopment 450 60 510 CLF Ballakermeen Special Needs DESC and Science 1,300 1,300 CLF Castle Rushen High School 2,000 6,000 21,400 29,400 CLF Castletown Youth and Community Centre 2,050 2,050 CLF Covered Play and Teaching Areas CLF Fire Certification Work to Schools 701 701 CLF National Sports Centre - Floodlight Stands 250 250 CLF Onchan Primary School 10,000 10,000 CLF Ramsey Grammar Arts/Performance 250 4,750 5,000 CLF Southern Swimming Pool 6,240 6,240 CLF St Ninian’s Key Stage 4 7,500 7,500 CLF UCM Learning Resources 200 2,800 3,000 CLF Willaston School Extension 2,500 2,500 CLF Technology - PRO Digital DfE Archive 100 650 750 CLF Communications DHA Development Programme CLF

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FUTURE £'000

Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Sum of Expected Expected Expected Dept. Scheme Name Expected Expected TOTAL FUNDING Spend Spend Further Spend 19/20 Spend 20/21 21/22 22/23 Spend Joint Douglas Fire and Ambulance Station 500 4,000 4,500 CLF GP Surgery Development - North West 1,000 1,000 CLF Nobles Combined Heat and Power Plant Nobles CLF Airport Rehabilitation DOI (pavements) 2,000 2,950 4,950 CLF Climate Change Adaption 1,800 3,300 3,000 3,000 9,800 20,900 CLF Deep Water Berth 20,000 20,000 CLF East Quay Peel 2,228 115 2,343 CLF Hazardous Landfill Replacement 975 975 CLF Heritage Rail - Steam Railway Track 1,155 1,210 400 2,000 4,765 CLF Port Erin Promenade CLF Port St Mary Marina Development 250 10,000 10,250 CLF Pulrose River Bridge 1,500 2,000 150 3,650 CLF Vehicle Test Centre Relocation 1,750 1,750 CLF West Quay Ramsey 200 1,200 2,510 225 4,135 CLF Crossag Ph 2 1,250 1,000 260 2,510 CLF Crossag Ph 3 1,250 1,000 260 2,510 CLF MUA Combined Cycle Gas Turbine 684 1,548 12,700 14,932 CLF Essential upgrades fuel tanks & back-up power supplies CLF Refurb of Sewerage Treatment Works (Central Valley) CLF Refurbishment of Local Sewage Treatment Works 2,735 1,650 4,385 CLF Regional Sewage Treatment Works for Peel, Laxey and Baldrine 7,740 9,050 16,790 CLF River Flood Alleviation CLF Sewer Flood Alleviation 550 500 500 1,550 CLF Sewers Network Refurbishment 2,150 2,600 2,200 2,200 19,900 29,050 CLF SMART Metering Conversion 1,300 1,300 1,300 1,300 1,300 6,500 CLF Technology - Operational TSY Change Programme 5,512 2,607 2,062 110 10,291 CLF Grand 34,179 42,331 29,722 40,082 164,756 311,070 CLF Total

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EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE

2.4. Education Bill consultation – Responses re catchment area schools

The Hon. Member for Garff (Mrs Caine) to ask the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture:

For question 13 of the Education Bill consultation what percentage of responses were: (a) yes; (b) no; and (c) unsure?

The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture (Mr Cregeen): This information was publicly available on the Government consultation hub since 26th January 2018; the responses were: 1815 (a) Yes 36.6% (b) No 48.0% (c) Unsure 14.0%

The Department response to this, again available on the consultation hub, was:

This subject elicited a range of varying responses, however we do not propose to amend our proposal outlined in the consultation document i.e. that a child will attend their catchment school unless they meet specific exception criteria. Whilst we acknowledge such logistical issues based on parents’ places of work or after school care arrangements, we consider that this will have far reaching implications for school facilities and infrastructure in the major towns where people work. This would also have a corresponding impact upon the viability of schools in other smaller towns and villages. It is our view that schools across all areas of the island add to community focus within their local areas and these should be protected as much as possible.

2.5. School applications – Details for out of catchment area

The Hon. Member for Garff (Mrs Caine) to ask the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture:

How many out of catchment area applications were (a) received and (b) declined broken down by schools in each of the last five years?

The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture (Mr Cregeen):

Table 2.5A

No. of OoC applications received No. of OoC applications declined

School / Year 13/14 14/15 15/16 16/17 17/18 13/14 14/15 15/16 16/17 17/18

Anagh Coar School 3 0 4 1 5 1 0 3 0 1

Andreas School 1 0 1 0 2 0 0 0 0 0

Arbory Primary School 6 1 3 0 1 0 0 1 0 1

Ashley Hill Primary School 8 2 7 4 5 1 2 2 1 0

Ballacottier School 12 3 7 1 9 10 1 1 1 5

Ballasalla Primary School 1 3 4 1 7 0 1 1 0 2

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Ballaugh Primary School 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0

Braddan Primary School 0 3 0 0 1 0 2 0 0 0

Bunscoill Ghaelgagh 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0

Bunscoill Rhumsaa 2 2 4 1 5 2 0 2 0 2

Cronk-Y-Berry School 6 8 9 2 6 4 6 1 2 2

Dhoon Primary School 2 1 5 0 1 1 0 1 0 0

Foxdale Primary School 2 2 3 0 7 0 1 0 0 2

Henry Bloom Noble 4 0 5 2 10 1 0 1 0 4 Jurby Community Primary 4 0 2 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 School

Kewaigue School 3 6 7 0 2 2 4 2 0 2

Laxey Primary School 1 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Manor Park Primary 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 School

Marown Primary School 6 2 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 0

Michael School 0 0 2 0 3 0 0 2 0 2

Onchan Primary School 4 3 4 2 2 1 2 0 2 0

Peel Clothworkers Primary 2 1 3 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 School

Rushen Primary School 5 4 6 1 3 3 2 2 1 3

Scoill Phurt Le Moirrey 5 4 6 1 5 3 2 2 1 4

Scoill Vallajeelt 3 3 2 2 3 2 1 0 2 1

Scoill yn Jubilee 3 2 4 2 3 2 2 1 1 2

St John's Primary School 7 3 8 0 1 1 0 4 0 0

St Mary's RC School 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

St Thomas's C of E School 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Sulby Primary School 10 4 12 2 8 0 1 6 1 6

Victoria Road Primary 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 School

Willaston Primary School 0 2 1 0 3 0 0 0 0 1

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Table 2.5B

No. of OoC applications received No. of OoC applications declined

School / Year 13/14 14/15 15/16 16/17 17/18 13/14 14/15 15/16 16/17 17/18

Ballakermeen High 6 15 34 1 22 2 2 9 1 10 School Castle Rushen High 0 2 6 4 2 0 1 3 2 1 School Queen Elizabeth II High 5 2 2 0 2 2 1 1 0 0 School Ramsey Grammar 0 0 2 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 School

St Ninian’s High School 7 16 17 4 14 1 1 3 1 3

Notes 1. Out of catchment (OoC) applications are processed centrally by the Department in accordance with its procedures and guidelines which are published on its website. These include provisions for: a. exceptional reasons when considering OoC applications b. taking account of school capacities and class sizes (to make efficient use of the existing school infrastructure) c. taking account of the resource requirements (including teaching staff/SEN services) within schools d. ensuring the continuing viability of smaller schools in communities around the Island. 2. In the procedures & guidelines set by the Department, reasons for granting OoC requests are limited to a few exceptional reasons, with school admissions otherwise following the latest School Catchment Areas Order laid before Tynwald 3. At Appeal Hearings, additional information and further details not previously provided may come to light for consideration by the Appeals Panel. 4. Appeals Panels include 2 Senior Officers of the Department and a Member of the Education Council, all of whom are independent of the decision taken on the original application. 5. Above table only shows received/declined applications. The remaining balance of applications were either approved or withdrawn. 6. Table also excludes early applications made in relation to the 2018-19 academic year.

2.6. Student computers in secondary schools – Expenditure in last 10 years

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture:

How much the Department spent on computers for student use in the Island’s secondary schools in each of the last 10 years?

1820 The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture (Mr Cregeen): Department spend on IT is largely determined by GTS and this expenditure is set out below. The figures cover the last four years and year to date in 2018 and are as follows:

All IT Hardware 2014/15 2015/16 2016/17 2017/18 Apr 2018 to Totals date £575,701.63 £352,830.87 £479,209.38 £825,793.19 £3,266.05 £2,236,801.12

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Desktops/IMACs 2014/15 2015/16 2016/17 2017/18 Apr 2018 to Totals date £290,654.16 £211,610.26 £370,476.66 £435,616.07 £697.71 £1,309,054.86

HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE

2.7. Residential home places – Number and cost

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

How many residential home places there are in total; and what the average cost is per bed?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): For the adult care homes registered in 1825 accordance with the Regulation of Care Act 2013, our information is as follows:

Care Homes with Nursing – 7 with a total of 437 beds. Care Homes without Nursing – 17 with a total of 504 beds

1830 Weekly fees for Care Homes with Nursing range from £920.00 per week to £1005.00 per week. Weekly fees for Care Homes without Nursing range from £464.66 per week to £835.00 per week. The Department is unable to identify an average weekly rate as many homes offer a menu of 1835 charges based on individual choice and level of care needed.

2.8. Nursing home places – Number and cost

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

How many nursing homes places are there in total; and what the average cost is per bed?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): Please refer to Question 2.7 which also answers this Question.

2.9. Salisbury Street Nursing Home – Unoccupied beds and cost

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

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How many beds were unoccupied at Salisbury Street Nursing Home each week from the week commencing 2nd October 2017 until the week commencing 28th May 2018; and how much was paid to Adorn Domiciliary Care Ltd for those empty beds?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): Table 2.9A below shows occupancy levels and costs for unoccupied beds at Salisbury Street Care Home.

Table 2.9A Total No of No of Commissioned Cost of Empty W/Ending Residents No of Empty Beds Beds Occupancy Beds 2-Oct-17 28 7 35 80% 5,685 9-Oct-17 29 6 35 83% 4,873 16-Oct-17 30 5 35 86% 4,061 23-Oct-17 30 5 35 86% 4,061 30-Oct-17 32 3 35 91% 2,436 6-Nov-17 31 9 40 78% 7,309 13-Nov-17 31 9 40 78% 7,309 20-Nov-17 33 7 40 83% 5,685 27-Nov-17 33 7 40 83% 5,685 4-Dec-17 34 6 40 85% 4,873 11-Dec-17 33 7 40 83% 5,685 18-Dec-17 34 6 40 85% 4,873 25-Dec-17 34 6 40 85% 4,873 1-Jan-18 35 5 40 88% 4,061 8-Jan-18 36 4 40 90% 3,248 15-Jan-18 38 2 40 95% 1,624 22-Jan-18 40 0 40 100% 0 29-Jan-18 36 4 40 90% 3,248 5-Feb-18 36 4 40 90% 3,248 12-Feb-18 34 6 40 85% 4,873 19-Feb-18 34 6 40 85% 4,873 26-Feb-18 32 8 40 80% 6,497 5-Mar-18 34 6 40 85% 4,873 12-Mar-18 35 5 40 88% 4,061 19-Mar-18 35 5 40 88% 4,061 26-Mar-18 33 7 40 83% 5,685 2-Apr-18 34 6 40 85% 5,116 9-Apr-18 32 8 40 80% 6,821 16-Apr-18 31 9 40 78% 7,673 23-Apr-18 33 7 40 83% 5,968 30-Apr-18 33 7 40 83% 5,968 7-May-18 36 4 40 90% 3,410 14-May-18 36 4 40 90% 3,410 21-May-18 37 3 40 93% 2,558 28-May-18 37 3 40 93% 2,558 Totals 196 85% 161,238

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2.10. DHSC staff sickness – Number subject to capability process

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

How many members of staff absent due to sickness are subject to the capability process?

1840 The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): Records held by the Office of Human Resources indicate that there are 55 open cases concerning capability in relation to attendance at work. This number includes cases where the individual may currently be at work but has had frequent absences. It does not include cases which may be being dealt with locally by line 1845 managers in the Department, at the informal stages of the capability process where the involvement of the Office of Human Resources has not been sought.

2.11. Noble’s Hospital staff sickness – Numbers by Division

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Beecroft) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

What the sickness absence rates are in Noble’s Hospital broken down by Division and area?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): The sickness absence rates for Noble’s Hospital, per records held by the office of Human Resources for the year ended 31st March, broken down by Division, are set out in Table 2.11A below:

Table 2.11A % of Worktime Lost

General Operations 1.9% Diagnostics Division 4.8% Women, Children’s & OP Division 6.5% Surgical Division 4.4% Patient Safety, Governance & Therapies 3.4% Medical Division 6.0% Core Services 8.5% 5.8%

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2.12. Overweight/obese children in Year 6 – Routine measuring

The Hon. Member for Garff (Mrs Caine) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

What progress has been made with the recommendation in the 2017 A Healthy Island report, to introduce routine height and weight measuring in Year 6 children?

1850 The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): This is being taken forward through discussion between the Director of Public Health and the Director of Community Care but arrangements are unlikely to be in place to include Year 6 measurements in the coming school year (2018-19). Including Year 6, as well as Reception, within the child measurement programme is important 1855 to our understanding of trends in overweight and obesity, will help inform future planning and provide an additional opportunity to discuss weight and lifestyle with parents and children.

2.13. Overweight/obese children in Reception – Percentages by primary school

The Hon. Member for Garff (Mrs Caine) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

What percentage of the current Reception year children were assessed as being overweight or obese, broken down by primary school; and what the average is across the Isle of Man?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): The most recent year for which the data are available is school year 2016-17. This is shown in Table 2.13A below1:

Table 2.13A % Overweight School Gender % Overweight % Obese & Obese Anagh Coar All 33.3% 13.3% 46.7% Andreas All 16.7% 0.0% 16.7% Arbory All 24.1% 20.7% 44.8% Ashley Hill All 6.7% 16.7% 23.3% Auldyn Bunscoill Rhumsaa All 13.8% 15.5% 29.3% Ballacottier All 7.7% 7.7% 15.4% Ballaugh All 22.2% 0.0% 22.2% Ballasalla All 27.3% 9.1% 36.4% Braddan All 8.3% 4.2% 12.5% Bunscoill Ghaelgagh All 15.4% 15.4% 30.8% Cronk Y Berry All 11.3% 7.5% 18.9% Dhoon All 14.3% 28.6% 42.9% Foxdale All 7.7% 15.4% 23.1% Henry Bloom Noble All 13.6% 9.1% 22.7%

1 The percentages are based on a total number of 864 children measured during 2016/17. The numbers for any individual school vary and some Reception Classes are very small. As a result, an apparently high percentage for any individual school cannot be taken as indicative of a level of overweight/obesity that is significantly different from the overall percentage. ______1092 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

Jurby All 14.3% 14.3% 28.6% Kewaigue All 20.0% 0.0% 20.0% Kirk Michael All 18.8% 0.0% 18.8% Laxey All 31.8% 9.1% 40.9% Manor Park All 16.7% 25.0% 41.7% Marown All 16.7% 3.3% 20.0% Onchan All 24.1% 1.9% 25.9% Rushen All 9.7% 3.2% 12.9% Peel Clothworkers All 14.0% 10.5% 24.6% Scoill Phurt le Moirrey All 29.6% 0.0% 29.6% Scoill Yn Jubilee All 12.9% 7.1% 20.0% Scoill Vallajeelt All 16.7% 4.2% 20.8% St Johns All 6.7% 13.3% 20.0% St Mary's All 18.4% 13.2% 31.6% St Thomas All 18.8% 12.5% 31.3% Sulby All 21.1% 0.0% 21.1% Victoria Road All 17.8% 11.1% 28.9% Willaston All 13.0% 4.3% 17.4% All Schools/all Island Totals 16.3% 8.8% 25.1%

1860 Children have their height and weight measured during Reception year by the School Nursing Service. These data are used to calculate Body Mass Index. Gender and age are also taken into account. The resulting BMI is compared to standard charts enabling categorisation into underweight, healthy weight, overweight and obese. The protocols used for these measurements in the Isle of Man form part of the Healthy Child Programme and use the same 1865 methodology as the Reception Class measurements done in English schools. This enables us to benchmark our data against that for England. In 2016-17, the percentage of Reception Class children in England who were classified as overweight or obese was 22.6% compared to our figure of 25.1%. Statistically, our figure is in line with that for England.2 1870 We are part of the obesity epidemic affecting all high income countries and which is spreading globally. It is important to note that measurements on 4-to-5-year-old children in Reception Class do not reflect the food and activity environment in schools – they reflect the home, family and community environment in which children have spent their pre-school years. As per the subject 1875 of another Written Question, we do not currently measure BMI in Year 6 – we need to do this to understand the contribution that the school environment makes to children’s weight at age 10- 11 years. Overweight and obesity in childhood is the greatest public health challenge we currently face. The Director of Public Health is focusing on this in her independent annual report due to be 1880 published at the end of next month. I am hosting a presentation in the Barrool Suite on 21st September to which all MHKs and all Government Department CEOs will be invited. The objective is to achieve commitment to a joint approach to reducing childhood overweight and obesity through cross-Government and community action to change the ‘obesogenic environment’.

2 The statistical test of significance used here is the confidence interval – the confidence interval on the English figure is 22.5 to 22.7%, our confidence interval is 22.3 to 28.1%. As this overlaps with the England range, our figure is statistically similar to that for England. ______1093 K135 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 26th JUNE 2018

Order of the Day

3. BILLS FOR FIRST READING

3.1. Communications Bill 2018; 3.2. Payment of Members’ Expenses (Amendment) Bill 2018

1885 The Speaker: Item 3, Bills for First Reading. I call on the Secretary of the House.

The Secretary: Bills for First Reading: Communications Bill 2018, Member in charge, Mr Malarkey; Payment of Members’ Expenses (Amendment) Bill 2018, Member in charge, Mr Cregeen. 1890 The Speaker: Hon. Members, that concludes the business before the House this morning and the House stands adjourned until Thursday, 5th July, in the Royal Chapel at St John’s. Thank you.

The House adjourned at 11.58 a.m.

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