Interview Between HERBERT C. BROWN,~., WETHERILL

Interview Between HERBERT C. BROWN,~., WETHERILL RESEARCH PROFESSOR OF CHEMISTRY, PURDUE UNIVERSITY and R. B. ECKLES, DEPARTMENT OF HISTORY, PURDUE UNIVERSITY Recorded September 22, 1970, for the Archives of Purdue University Eckles: This is a recording for the Purdue University Archives made on the morning of September 22, 1970, in Room 268 of the Chemistry Building, Purdue University. This is an interview be tween Prof. Herbert Brown, R. B. Wetherill Distinguished Professor of Chemistry at Purdue University, and R. B. Eckles of the Department of History. Professor Brown, let us start out by asking the usual questions. Where were you born? Where were you educated? Take us up to the time that you came to Purdue. Brown: I was born in London, England. I came with my parents to America in 1914 at a time when I was two years old. I was raised in Chicago and educated in Chicago schools. Eckles: What high school? Brown: I went to Englewood High School on the south side of Chicago, and then went to the city 2 colleges of the city of Chicago to receive an Associate of Science degree in 1935, and then went to the University of Chicago on a scholarship to receive their Bachelor of Science degree in 1936 and a Ph.D. in 1938. Eckles: Who had the most influence on you in your graduate work? Brown: At the city colleges I carne into contact with a very unusual man, Prof. Nicholas D. Cheronis who had considerable influence on me. My education was interrupted considerably by the Depression, and I began work at the Crane Junior College in 1933. However, that school was closed after I had attended it for one semester, and there was no city college at that time which I could attend. Professor Cheronis had a small laboratory on the north side of Chicago, known as the Synthetic Laboratories, and there he allowed a number of students to corne in and occupy themselves working on chemistry, without any cost or charge, without any payments. It was simply a humanitarian gesture on his part. It was there that I met the girl who became my wife. At that place I did considerable work on my own, for which I later received credit at the University of Chicago after I had established that I-was competent in the areas. That's why 3 I was able to receive my bachelor's degree at the University of Chicago in one year. Eckles: That's amazing. I never heard of that being done, although I knew that at that time Chicago did honor merit rather than years of servitude. Brown: I should explain, of course, that the qne year involved three quarters, covering my junior and senior years, because I did go to Wright Junior College for a full year. Eckles: Then you entered graduate school, and whom did you work with in graduate school? Brown: In graduate school I worked with Prof. H. I. Schlesinger on some relatively rare exotic compounds known as the boron hydrides. These were exceedingly unstable materials which could be handled only in the absence of air and water and were exceedingly rare substances at the time. They were made only in milligram quanti ties and they were of interest chiefly because they provided a major problem for the current theory of chemical bonding. However, largely as a result of our work, new methods of synthesis were discovered which made these substances readily available. In actual fact, much of my work since that time has been to explore the chemistry of these substances and to apply them to specific applications in chemistry. 4 Eckles: And what has been the result in commercial products and research? Brown: In 1939, we received a request from the gov ernment in Washington to investigate new volatile compounds of uranium. We were not advised what these were to be used for, but were told it was important for national defense to find materials, other than that which was currently available, uranium hexofluoride which might be used for an important application. We undertook to study this problem and discovered a. new compound, uranium borohydride, which possessed volatility of the order of magnitude that was desired. We were then advised to or ganize a large research group and undertake to prepare this material in quantity for testing. As a result,of this work, we discovered a new compound, sodium borohydride, and new methods for making the borohydride in quantity. These developments resulted in making these materials and other boron hydrides readily available. Sodium borohydride was never used for the purpose for which we investigated it. However, it has turned out to be an excellent hydrogenating agent in organic chemistry. It is widely used in the pharmaceutical field for the man ufacture of drugs and pharmaceuticals, as well as many other applications. 5 Eckles: Did some of this research in '39 through '42 point towards the Argonne Laboratories? And the development of nuclear fusion? Brown: Yes, the real reason for doing this work, orig inally, was that the government was working on the separation of uranium isotopes. To do this they needed volatile compounds of uranium. Uranium hexofluoride was well-known as a volatile intermediate, but it was a highly corrosive material, and there was some question originally whether the problems of handling uranium hexofluoride could be solved. Con sequently, backup material was desired. The compound we discovered, uranium borohydride, was such a backup material. But since the problems for handling uranium hexofluoride were solved, there was no need for our backup material. However, I think it is an interesting point that research which was carried out to find a material for use in the separation of uranium isotopes should have found its major application in the pharmaceutical industry for the manufacture of drugs to alleviate human suffering. Eckles: In other words, this is the feedback of pure research isn't it? Brown: Yes, it is. 6 Eckles: Is it important to continue such things? Brown: It certainly is. One of the dangers of the present pressure to do research directly only for specific goals is that we cannot foresee all the consequences of research. We need to devote a portion of our research efforts solely to the objective of exploring the physical world. If we do such research and exercise our imaginations, we will be able to apply the new knowledge to solve many of the problems that face us. If we restrict ourselves solely to solving problems that face us using only the knowledge presently available, we would doubtless overlook many more useful approaches. Eckles: I should think there would be no question of that. Well, let's get back to you and your career. What did you do during the war years? Brown: During 1939 to 1943, I was at the University of Chicago as an assistant to Professor Schlesinger, and for most of this time I worked on the above project for the Manhattan District to develQp uranium borohydride. Then we received a new project from the Signal Corps. They were interested in developing a convenient method for the field generation of hydrogen, and sodium borohydride appeared to 7 be a promising material for that application. In 1943, I went to Wayne University in Detroit as assistant professor of chemistry. Wayne at that time had just begun a graduate program, When I arrived there, there were only two candidates for the M.S. degree and no labora tory or equipment. I had to initiate research work entirely through my own efforts. However, things developed there quite rapidly. A Ph.D. program was instituted in 1945. With the end of the war, there was an influx of graduate students. I was making rapid progress there, when I was invited to come down to Purdue by Henry Hass, chairman of the Purdue department, in 1947. I found it difficult to decide to leave Wayne. It was a place where there was nothing when I arrived, and we had managed to build a considerable research program. I was influenced strongly by another consideration. The university in Detroit was situated in the center of the city. My wife and child were out near the edge of the city. My wife at the University of Chicago had been accustomed to being an integral part of the university community. This was not possible in Detroit. When I came to West Lafayette and saw what a lovely little community this was, without the problems of the large city, I decided that for my family's sake, it would be better to move to Lafayette. 8 Eckles: Didn't the opportunities for research in an established chemistry department with people like McBee and Hass, and, oh, the old guard that were here. Didn't they have a suffi ciently national reputation to make coming here rather exciting to' work with these men? Brown: I'm afraid that this was not a significant factor in my thinking. Eckles: Was this a good department? Brown: It was a good department. However, in actual fact, the main considerations in my mind were two things. One, there was a large growing department here, which meant that I would not have to do the enormous spade work necessary to institute new procedures. But more important was the fact that this was, in my mind, a lovely place in which to live. Eckles: You would be amazed at the number of people who have indicated in their interviews that they came to Lafayette for that reason. A good place to bring up their children, and it was a nice country town, and they sort of liked it.

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