1 Draft Minutes of NSA-WCF Meeting 28 January 2019

Minutes of the meeting of NSA-WCF 28th January 2019 1pm At YFC Offices, Royal Welsh Showground, Builth Wells In attendance Mr Phil Stocker, NSA CEO Mr Edwin Harris, Chairman WCF Mr Johnny Davies, Vice Chairman WCF Edwina Gatehouse, Secretariat 1. Apologies Mr John Staley, Treasurer WCF Mr John Thorley OBE, Honorary Member Mr Gwynfryn Harris, Black Mountain Graziers Ms Sarah Warman, Blorenge Commoners Association Mr Lee Pritchard, YFC Mr Dilwyn John, Penderyn Commoners Association Manor Mawr Mr Brian Barney, Preseli (Mynachlogddu) Common Mr Eric Jones, Caegurwen & Penllerfedwen Commons Association Mr Peter Davies, Caegurwen & Penllerfedwen Commons Association Mr Graham Jones (given at NSA HQ on day of meeting), Mynydd Eglwysilan Mynydd Mayo and Graig Evan Leyshon Brinkers Association Present Mrs Diana Samuel, Aberedw Hill Commoners Association Mr Emlyn Morgan, Black Mountain Graziers Mr John Morris, Black Mountain Graziers East Mr Jeff Gwillim, Black Mountain Graziers East Mr David Gatehouse, Llangorse Lake Common Mr Ieuan J Morgan, Penderyn Commoners Association Manor Mawr Mr Mike Strange, Blorenge Commoners Association Mr Tom Roberts, Blorenge Commoners Association Mr Edwin Roderick, Forest Fach Commoners Association Mrs Joanne Harper, Ystumtuen Graziers Association Mr Dyfrig Morgan, Garreg Goch Graziers Association Mr Gwilym Jones, Eppynt Commoners Association Mr Terry Jones and Mr Kevin Stephens, Eglwysilan Common Mr Tom Evans, Abergwesyn Hill Graziers Association Ms Nicola Drew and Ms Sian Thomas of YFC. 1 Draft Minutes of NSA-WCF Meeting 28 January 2019 2. Minutes The minutes of the 29th November 2018 were considered. Mr Tom Roberts made the point that the minutes were very detailed and should be sent out in advance of the meeting to allow time for them to be read. It was agreed they would be sent out in advance in future. An amendment was required to the minutes at page 4. This related to the permitted period for cutting of hedges and trees for September to March. Mr Tom Roberts proposed the minutes be agreed. Mr Ieuan Morgan duly seconded. 3. Update on Brexit and our Land Mr Phil Stocker gave an overview in relation to the Welsh Government Consultation and the compilation of responses. The second stage of the consultation was awaited. Mr Phil Stocker indicated that at the NSA AGM of the 25th February 2019 the Agriculture Team of Welsh Government were due to attend. There was to be discussion on future policies. It was noted that as whole there had not been much by way of progress concerning Brexit. There was of course concern in terms of what will happen to the future of sheep farming and the farming of grazed livestock beyond March due to the widespread uncertainty created by Brexit. Mr Phil Stocker noted that there were studies which suggested that if we crash out with a no deal Brexit situation there would be an adverse impact on lamb values. The EU had verbally indicated that we would not be listed as a trading partner. There may be some disruption at borders. It has also been announced that the UK will not be charging tariffs on food and drink coming into the UK. Mr Phil Stocker indicated that two positives related to the fact that there is no shortage of meat processors in France, Germany, and Belgium still want to receive British Lamb. In short there is a lot of uncertainty but a little bit of hope. There has been a lot of work behind the scenes in terms of tariffs etc. At present the Agriculture Bill has stalled and amendments are tabled. There is an attempt to secure a longer period of funding for agriculture and legislation to enable the UK to deal with imported products. The Government is more prepared than we realise. As the process of Brexit continues there is a real culture change in Defra and Welsh Government as they are released from the regulation of EU and many civil servants want to work more directly with the Agricultural industry. Defra has increased its staff by 2000 or thereabouts. Defra is conducting a lot of preparatory work. Mr Tom Roberts made the point that he would like to see the four governments on a level playing field. Mr Phil Stocker indicated that we have to respect devolution but where industries work as one there should be a level playing field. In England and Wales there is more alignment. In Scotland the separation is greater and they are trying to push to keep BPS and headage payments. 2 Draft Minutes of NSA-WCF Meeting 28 January 2019 Mr Kevin Stephens posed the question as to who are the NSA aligned with. They seem aligned with England and Wales Policy. In Scotland they have a headage payment for replacement ewes. Mr Phil Stocker indicated that headage had been agreed and the UK figures had been used. It had been implemented as the percentages were so minimal. In terms of UK wide implementation it could not have been done. Ms Joanne Harper made the point that the uplands in Scotland were used for shooting not grazing sheep, where was the NSA on this. There should be headage payment on the uplands. Mr Tom Roberts made the point that there had been a headage payment on yearlings on the hills and also suckler calves at a payment rate of 25%. Mr Dyfrig Morgan made the point that Lesley Griffiths AM had been quoted in the Farmers Weekly stating that she wishes to see the Welsh Sheep flock reduced. Mr David Gatehouse stated that the article had also been leaked by Vince Cable, Liberal Democrats. Defra never confirmed or denied the leak. Mr Phil Stocker went on to state that despite the threat of Brexit this has not stopped the purchase of lamb and we have to be optimistic globally. Mr Edwin Roderick stated that we should note the effect that the Beast from the East had on food supplies. Food supplies soon run short. As other countries population explands there will be new markets as outlined in a recent article in the Farmers Weekly concerning the emerging markets in India. Mr Phil Stocker stated that we should be looking at building relationships globally. The EU represents 35% of the market. 90% of our sheep export goes to the EU. We cannot expect other countries to simply soak up our product and that is why work needs to be done on trade deals for the future after Brexit. Mr Ieuan Morgan expressed his fears that the Welsh Government were simply looking to plant land with trees to reduce sheep numbers. Mr Edwin Roderick also expressed a similar concern in relation to the attempts for rewilding and the purchase of farms for tree plantation. Mr Phil Stocker stated that we have to show that grass farming is desirable. Mr Emlym Morgan posed the question do we want to keep sheep on the hills? Mr Ieuan Morgan indicated yes we do otherwise there is no point to this meeting. Look at the families that have been brought up on this land. Mr Terry Jones indicated that the public are getting cheap food so why do they want more access to the land. The more access they have and the more rights the less stock that can be kept on the hills due to dogs, off roading, disturbances etc. Mr T Jones made the point that cheap food was the public good. General discussion was had in relation to the SFP, Ewe premium and headage payment systems. 3 Draft Minutes of NSA-WCF Meeting 28 January 2019 4. Commoning and Next Generation Initiatives Ms Sian Thomas and Ms Nicola Drew were introduced by Mr Phil Stocker. Ms Sian Thomas is a Rural Affairs Officer for YFC and attended in place of Mr Lee Pritchard and Ms Nicola Drew farms near Talgarth and has recently completed the NSAs Next generation programme. Mr Phil Stocker stated that we were approaching a period of enormous change in Agriculture and the way in which Government treats Agriculture. Lots of Farmers feel tough times are ahead and so it is important to turn to the young entrants into Agriculture for the future. The NSA has picked up on that message seven years ago with the development of its young person initiative and Shepherd awards. The NSA also offers bursaries and courses. The NSA are keen to see young people coming into the industry as are the WCF. Mr Phil Stocker gave an overview of his involvement in the Black Mountain land partnership and the invitation to young people to come along and discuss commoning. The WCF are very proud to have Mr Johnny Davies as our Vice Chairman. Mr Phil Stocker invited Ms Nicola Drew to provide her overview and experience of farming on common land in addition to her programme with the NSA. Ms Drew duly gave her presentation in terms of her experience of taking over the family farm from her Father. Ms Sian Thomas gave an overview in relation to the work that the YFC are doing in relation to business skills and mentoring and are looking to also engage with Solicitors and Accountants to provide advisory lectures on these topics. 5. Rewilding Mr Edwin Roderick stated that the WCF were requested to attend a meeting with BBNP and turned this opportunity down. The meeting concerned cutting down livestock numbers by 50% and rewilding. The Environmental lobby appear convinced that Agriculture is on the demise post Brexit. There was disagreement that the WCF had refused to attend this meeting. The correct position was that the WCF were to speak with the NFU and FUW thereafter decide upon attendance at the meeting.

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