TRANSCRIPT

LAW REFORM, ROAD AND COMMUNITY SAFETY COMMITTEE

Inquiry into lowering the probationary driving age in Victoria to 17

Melbourne — 25 August 2016

Members

Mr Geoff Howard — Chair Ms Fiona Patten Mr Bill Tilley — Deputy Chair Ms Natalie Suleyman Mr Martin Dixon Mr Murray Thompson Mr Khalil Eideh

Staff

Acting executive officer: Mr Andrew Homer Research officer: Mr John Aliferis

Witnesses

Mr Alan Fedda, executive director, customer experience, and Mr Stuart Johns, manager, regional network development, Public Transport Victoria.

Necessary corrections to be notified to executive officer of committee

25 August 2016 Law Reform, Road and Community Safety Committee 120 The CHAIR — Alan, Stuart, from PTV, welcome to our parliamentary hearing looking at lowering the probationary driving age to 17. Obviously in regard to that issue, the reasons are limits on public transport in some areas, so we obviously welcome hearing from you in regard to that. You will be aware that we have Hansard recording everything that is being said, so you will get a transcript of our conversation within a couple of weeks to check that it is technically correct and then it will go on the public record after that. You would know the issues of parliamentary privilege that are offered to people speaking at parliamentary inquiries. I do not know whether that is relevant in this case at all, but that is afforded to you here. I think those are the key parts of the formalities. We welcome comments you would like to make in regard to improving accessibility of public transport across the state, and we look forward to having a bit of a conversation after that.

Visual presentation.

Mr FEDDA — Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the committee for having me and my colleague Stuart Johns here today. Whilst this inquiry is looking at lowering the probationary driving age in Victoria to 17, I am pleased to be able to take up the invitation and present to the committee some high-level information about public transport that hopefully might help the committee. I have prepared a short presentation, that if you are comfortable with I can take you through, and then we certainly will be happy to answer questions at the end that are relevant to your inquiry.

The presentation will cover a variety of topics today. Hopefully you will find them useful. We will look at current public transport services, both in metropolitan Melbourne and in regional Victoria. We will look at some of the key initiatives which have improved public transport over the recent years, particularly for young people. We will look at some data on patronage for young people using public transport. We will look at the ticketing options for young people as well as some future planning programs, particularly to improve public transport in regional Victoria.

So the next slide, slide 3, really just looks at a snapshot of services currently available in Victoria. You will be aware that Victoria is serviced by a mix of train, tram, bus and coach services, and we obviously transport millions of people every day. The statistics outlined on this page show the large operational footprint of public transport in this state. Metropolitan Melbourne is serviced by trains, trams and buses, which give customers a variety of choices for their journey and many multimodal journeys are made each day. In regional Victoria you will be aware that V/Line is the largest operator and offers more than 1700 services weekly. We have a large regional town bus network as well in addition to the V/Line network and it is run by a variety of operators. But you will see that they are just the large number of services that we operate each week.

Slide 4: one of the improvements that has been made over the last year is obviously the introduction of the Night Network. Victoria is the only state in Australia that actually offers all-night public transport on weekends, and we are actually only one of two cities worldwide — I believe the other city is Berlin — that offer all-night public transport across three modes, which are trams, trains and buses.

You will be aware that the Night Network commenced on 1 January 2016, and the Victorian government recently announced it will continue into the first half of 2017. There are 300 overnight train services during the Night Network, 250 tram services and around 500 bus and coach services around the weekend. So the Night Network, we believe, is delivering a convenient and affordable way to travel, particularly for young children as well, or for youth, late at night and on the weekends.

For regional, the Night Network offers two coaches on Friday and Saturday evenings. They depart the city for the regional centres — so Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, Traralgon — and they leave at 2.00 a.m. There are two coaches that leave at that point. One is an express service and the other one is an all-stop service, depending on where passengers want to stop or get off the coach.

Our research shows us that currently around 35 000 people are using the Night Network to get home every weekend. What we know is that 60 per cent of Night Network users are male, and obviously 40 per cent are female. The largest group, which is relevant to today’s committee, of users on the Night Network are actually aged between 18 and 24. It is just under 50 per cent. So the Night Network itself seems to be attracting youth who want alternative means of coming into the city and then also coming home on weekends.

The feedback as well — —

25 August 2016 Law Reform, Road and Community Safety Committee 121 The CHAIR — Can I just ask on that, you said 18 to 24, so if people are under 18, are they in a group there, or is that just where you drew the line in terms of your categories?

Mr FEDDA — Chair, I do not have that information on hand. I am happy certainly to provide that back, but what we know is that for that particular group that we used in the survey, we used 18 to 24, but I am sure there are users under 18 that we potentially have captured.

The CHAIR — Well, yes, in relation to our inquiry, then it is 17-year-olds and that sort of thing that are of interest to us, too. If you can provide us with any of those sorts stats, yes.

Mr FEDDA — We can certainly review that and provide it to the committee. So what we know as well is that, importantly, 21 per cent of passengers who are using the Night Network are actually using it not just to go out but they are actually using it to get to work. That is what our researchers currently tell us. Predominantly it is the hospitality industry or essential services, so nearly a fifth of passengers are using it to get to work.

Slide 6 provides some information around ticketing options for young people. We are one of the cheapest cities in the world for daily travel, and there is a range of discounts for young people. Obviously it is to encourage them to use public transport. Customers between 4 and 16 can use a child , and that provides a 50 per cent discount of the full price for the daily fare. Then passengers who are between 17 and 18 who hold a Victorian concession entitlement are also entitled to 50 per cent off the full fare.

Obviously I will not go into too much detail around primary and secondary school students, but they can obtain student passes. They are either yearly or half-yearly, and they include unlimited travel in zones 1 and 2. You can also get regional student passes as well, and they are significantly discounted. But the important thing here is to note that the cost of, for instance, a student pass in metropolitan Melbourne is $546 annually. It is unlimited travel across zones 1 and 2 throughout the entire year.

Slide 7 gives a little bit more detail around the price, which makes it — —

The CHAIR — Just in terms of that, for some people paying that much money at one time would be a lot. Can they pay that in instalments?

Mr FEDDA — Not for the half-yearly or the yearly pass, but if they are using what we call myki money, which is travelling as you go, they will get 50 per cent off. Students or concession will get 50 per cent off the daily myki money fare, for instance.

I guess slide 7 might show that a bit more. Slide 7 shows what the daily fare looks like, and that is the full fare. For instance, the daily full fare in zones 1 and 2 is $7.80. A child or a concession would pay 50 per cent of that, and that is for unlimited travel in zones 1 and 2 on all modes in zones 1 and 2.

If you compare that, for instance, to , which is the Opal card, the daily maximum is $15 in Sydney for metropolitan travel. A weekly as well, I have demonstrated, the weekly myki full fare is $39; for someone with a concession it would be half that. It compares very favourably to the maximum price in Sydney.

You will also be aware that one thing that will encourage children and youth to use public transport is the reduction in the price of zone 1 and 2 travel that occurred in January 2015. Now you can travel across both zones for the price of a zone 1 fare, and of course travel in the CBD, and Docklands, on trams has also been made free since 1 January 2015.

On slide 8 we have provided some information around comparing public transport versus car ownership and maintenance. It is significantly cheaper to use public transport. We took this information from an RACV report into motoring costs. That shows that owning and maintaining a small or light car is just under $130 a week — that is, $6750 annually. By comparison, a full fare yearly zone 1 and 2 myki pass allows unlimited travel across the entire metropolitan network. That is only around $30 a week, remembering again that when you add concession fares to that, you get a 50 per cent discount.

Ms PATTEN — If you cannot afford to pay the up-front cost of a 6-month or 12-month and you are paying it as you go, then it is considerably more expensive.

25 August 2016 Law Reform, Road and Community Safety Committee 122 Mr FEDDA — You can pay myki money, which is your daily fare, but we also have passes which go for 7 days and then 28 days and greater, so you can choose the number of days from 28 days onwards. Obviously the more you travel on a pass, the cheaper the fare is.

Ms PATTEN — That is right. I guess that, looking at low-income or the disadvantaged, it is where an up-front cost might not fit into their budget, so it is just looking at that — but yes, thank you.

Mr FEDDA — And of course not everyone is travelling solely in metropolitan grid, so we have also shown a bit of a comparison between travel in some regional areas — for instance, between Bendigo and Melbourne and Traralgon and Melbourne. Whilst obviously the saving is smaller than travelling in metropolitan Melbourne, it is still cheaper when you compare it to owning and maintaining a light vehicle. Those prices that we have put there are for the full travel between Bendigo in Melbourne. A lot of people in regional Victoria may not be travelling the full zones between Melbourne and those regions — they might be travelling just locally — so their travel will be cheaper than what we have shown here. For comparison, we have shown the full Melbourne to Bendigo travel, for instance.

What is interesting on slide 9 is we have done some research that we commissioned Roy Morgan to do to have a look at travel patterns for youth. You can see there on the graph travel patterns from 14 years of age to about 29. What it shows is that public transport usage starts to trend downwards in the years around licensing age, so obviously 18 plus. In regional Victoria it is more obvious and pronounced than in metropolitan Melbourne, so you can see there, obviously in blue, which is the usage on metropolitan services, and then the red is regional. When you look at the 18 to 19, you start to see a decline in use of public transport. In metropolitan areas it is likely that public transport use remains relatively steady, particularly as tertiary education and employment tend to be located in clusters. In those areas potentially parking is limited, and public transport becomes more feasible to connect people either to school and home or whether they are going to work. But you do tend to see a bit of a decline in regional around 18 to 19.

Slide 10 provides further information from Roy Morgan Research. It shows the difference between Melbourne-based and regional Victoria-based 18 to 24-year-old in terms of lifestyle, vehicle ownership and travel patterns. I guess what it shows is that Melbourne-based youths, again, are more likely to use public transport and probably also live with their parents, more so than regional youths. That is based on research that we have commissioned through Roy Morgan, but it kind of correlates with the previous data that shows a decline of public transport usage in regional Victoria at 18 to 19 years of age.

I guess the data that I have presented — high-level data on those previous slides — just shows that public transport usage tends to reduce around or after licensing age, particularly in regional areas. Obviously we want to encourage greater usage of public transport, so the Victorian government has undertaken extensive consultation and research across the state to form what we call the regional network development plan. It is a plan for our regional public transport network and looks at recommendations for the short, medium and long term. That is really important for us, particularly in the context of this committee, to understand some of those improvements that are planned that might help encourage youth in regional Victoria in particular to continue travelling on public transport.

I might spend the rest of the presentation giving a high-level overview of the public transport improvements that are planned as part of the Regional Network Development Plan.

Slide 12 shows that during 2015 the network development plan in regional Victoria was the most comprehensive transport consultation process that has ever been undertaken. We engaged with around 1400 people at 38 workshops right across the state, and obviously many more people shared their thoughts just through traditional surveys and filling out forms et cetera. We also provided an opportunity for online feedback and written submissions. We also did a number of in-depth interviews, particularly in areas such as the Latrobe Valley, Mildura and Horsham, to understand some of the challenges that people were experiencing in those regions.

Slide 13 sets the aims for the regional network development plan and the priorities. As I mentioned, it is over the short, medium and long term, so it really looks over the next 20 years. It is designed to take account of the different needs of individual communities, so it was not just one broad plan for regional Victoria; it did look at all the parts of regional Victoria and what they required. Obviously we are looking at improving the public transport across Victoria and tailoring priorities to those communities.

25 August 2016 Law Reform, Road and Community Safety Committee 123 Slide 14 just gives you a sense of the principles of the plan. Obviously it is a passenger-first approach; it is about looking at reliable trips, supporting, really, the social and economic inclusion, and that is really important not just for adults but also for youth and children. How do they use our public transport network to access education, to access employment and to participate in social activities?

Slide 15 starts to show some of those improvements and some of the key initiatives that have come out of the plan, and these will be initiatives that will be implemented over the coming years. What you will see for this is that rail includes some better services on regional commuter lines to Ballarat, Bendigo and Seymour. Service frequency will be moving toward at least every 20 minutes in the peak and we are looking to plan to every 40 minutes in the inter-peak. I should note that Geelong already has better than 20 minute peak services and 40 minute inter-peak services currently. So we will be looking to progressively roll these out next year. I will not take the committee through all those initiatives, but it gives some information around what is being planned.

Ms PATTEN — All next year?

Mr FEDDA — No, these are the short term.

Mr JOHNS — If I could add there, obviously anything with the rail network will take a fairly long lead-in time because there are significant infrastructure works required. What we have through the state budget is development funding to commence the planning.

Mr FEDDA — Slide 16 then looks at regional bus improvements, so there are a number of improvements already planned, and we are progressively reviewing town bus networks to ensure they meet the needs of the community. Importantly, when we look at regional bus improvements we will be looking at ensuring that there are connections to local jobs and to local education and training. To date we have already made changes in Geelong and Bendigo, which enables more frequently connected services to key areas, like health and education precincts in those regions, and also to improve connections to train stations. We have also completed consultation in Ballarat and the Latrobe Valley to allow us to review the existing bus networks in those areas.

For smaller rural communities the Victorian government is establishing local transport forums to review and develop innovative local transport solutions for those particular areas. I will give you an example. Some of them will be like Flexiride.

The CHAIR — Which is — just to explain to us?

Mr JOHNS — Flexiride is a bit of a different approach to providing public transport. It uses a vehicle which may or may not be a bus. To give you an example, in Yarrawonga up on the border on the Murray River we have replaced the former town bus service, which for background was carrying on average about two passengers per trip, with a taxi. So the town taxi at a public transport fare delivers a service to bus stops throughout the town. If there are no passengers, the service does not run. It results in more business for the local taxi operator and a more appropriate vehicle for getting to some of the smaller streets that exist within the townships. We get better coverage at a lower cost and a better, sustainable taxi industry, so we are taking a transport network approach rather than just looking at traditional buses.

Ms PATTEN — That is good.

Mr FEDDA — Slide 17 also shows some of the improvements we have been making around connecting to education institutions. For instance, we have introduced a range of connected services in key regional university campuses. That includes La Trobe University in Bendigo, Deakin campuses in Waurn Ponds, central Geelong and Warrnambool, Federation University campuses in Ballarat and there are services planned for Churchill.

We are also looking at better services for TAFEs in regional Victoria and we have included improvements in Bendigo, Geelong and the Latrobe Valley. These are all important options to ensure that younger people have access to public transport to get to and from education institutions.

Slide 18 also talks about the extensive school bus network that operates throughout the state and links students to eligible schools at no cost. This particular program provides over 1400 bus routes. It is very extensive; it has nearly 400 local operators and it makes around 28 million trips every single year. PTV administers this country school program on behalf of the Department of Education and Training, and on top of this, where possible, we provide access to non-local schools or other schools.

25 August 2016 Law Reform, Road and Community Safety Committee 124 The CHAIR — While you are on that one, can I also ask whether you have looked at — I am aware that you might have — opportunities for using school buses when they are not used for school purposes to extend transport options for people?

Mr JOHNS — That work is currently under way. A key finding in the regional network development plan was that we have school buses right throughout the state that do not do a great deal between 9 in the morning and 3 in the afternoon and we think there is a lot of opportunity to use those assets a lot smarter. Obviously there is a lot of background research and tailoring of the service to the local community. One of the things Alan touched on just before is with the planning work we do for regional Victoria we want to make sure we have a tailored approach so the service matches the individual needs of the community — that we do not just find a model and drop it down all over the state. It will obviously require a lot of consultation with local communities, but also with the Department of Education and Training, as they are the owner of the policy that underpins the school bus network.

Mr FEDDA — Thank you, Stuart. Slide 19 also kind of shows usage for the school bus program, so there are opportunities for it to also be used for post-secondary school passengers. Access to the service is controlled by the local school bus coordinators, but those students who are eligible — for instance, the students undertaking further education or training courses such as university, TAFE or adult and community education and apprentices who are required to attend school. Generally in this area, as Stuart mentioned, the school bus is not used during school hours, so there are opportunities there that we are exploring.

Ms PATTEN — Do you have any idea how many students are using the service?

Mr FEDDA — I do not have it. Do you?

Mr JOHNS — Sorry, we do. It was just on the — —

Ms PATTEN — As in the case-by-case — —

The CHAIR — Post-secondary students using school buses.

Ms PATTEN — The post-secondary school students.

Mr JOHNS — No, we would need to take that on notice and seek advice from the department.

Ms PATTEN — Just out of interest, that would be great, thank you.

The CHAIR — So at the moment you are saying that TAFE students and other post-secondary students could, if they get permission from their education department coordinator, get on an existing school bus if there is capacity and simply travel free of charge. Would it be free of charge?

Mr JOHNS — No, there may be a fare involved; it is really up to the individual operator. The fares are not set by us.

Mr FEDDA — Chair, as I have outlined, that is some high-level information around public transport usage and services and some patronage around youth. We are obviously committed at PTV to progressing a number of transport initiatives, and although these initiatives are aimed to encourage more young people to make use of our service, it also obviously creates broader social and economic participation. Obviously I would like to thank the committee for giving us the opportunity in inviting us today to provide some information. My colleague and I would be more than happy to answer your questions where we can.

Ms PATTEN — There have been a number of submissions around the cost of public transport for passengers under 18. I wonder if you guys have ever looked at any costings on what would happen if all passengers under 18 travelled for free?

Mr JOHNS — Not that I am aware of, but we could certainly come back with advice. We would need to do some research and take that on notice.

Ms PATTEN — I guess that feeds into the cost of fare evasion. Again, a number of the youth agencies are saying that for disadvantaged kids a significant factor for them is not only do they not have enough to pay for

25 August 2016 Law Reform, Road and Community Safety Committee 125 their fare but then they are getting hit with a fine and that is mounting up for them and is having significant effects on probably a small cohort. That would be great, thank you.

The CHAIR — Could I also then follow up by asking about regional areas? It is a matter of where we start. Through that regional network development plan you send them into major regional centres, places like Horsham, Mildura and so on?

Mr JOHNS — Yes.

The CHAIR — I am wondering what feedback you can give us. Did you hear from many young people who were in this situation that we are looking at here — maybe 17-year-olds who are having trouble getting to either training opportunities or work opportunities?

Mr JOHNS — We heard from a broad cross-section of the community. One of the things that we did with the consultation was we did not seek registrations or create barriers to people coming to have a chat. So it was really around drilling into local communities and having a real conversation with people who may or may not be public transport users. In doing that, we sought not to provide barriers like seeking registration or making it too formal. In doing that, we did attract a broad cross-section of the community. Some workshops had different dynamics to them, because they had different age groups or were approached from a different way. So we do not readily have the data to say, ‘Seventeen to 20-year-olds gave us this type of feedback’; it is basically at the macro level.

The CHAIR — I understand that, so I guess I am looking for anecdotal response in terms of — you personally attended a number, if not most?

Mr JOHNS — Thirty-six of them.

The CHAIR — A lot of them, I know, Stuart. So can you anecdotally recall situations where people in that age group — the 17 and 18-year-old age group — may have been a part of your sessions and indicated their frustration at accessing either training or education opportunities?

Mr JOHNS — In some places, yes. It was a varied response across the state because the service offering is not uniform across the state. Some places, for example, that came up as an issue were places like Portland, where Warrnambool is an hour and a bit away; the university campus is in Warrnambool, along with a fairly large TAFE campus. And there were individual communities with certain demands that, again, were not replicated across the state because of the service offering. Also, the way that people learn can differ across the state, as online learning is becoming more prevalent and also the private sector is taking more of a role in education as well. That has kind of taken us away from the traditional education clusters that might exist, so that changes the dynamics in how the transport system works.

The CHAIR — So in the case of Portland, then, where there clearly were a number of people in that cohort, what is PTV able to do in terms of providing services to meet some of those needs?

Mr JOHNS — It is factored into our planning. So the RNDP provides the roadmap, if you like, for our planning work. All 15 000 pieces of feedback have been individually captured, and they are fed into a fairly extensive or comprehensive consultation report, which is available on our website. That is informing our planning as we go forward and review networks across the state.

The CHAIR — Okay, but then it is a bit early to say whether you can deliver some of those services that were requested?

Mr JOHNS — There are a lot of recommendations within the RNDP, and obviously it is a long-term pipeline as well, so it is prioritisation and informing local communities, giving them a say in what their priorities are.

Mr TILLEY — Thanks, Alan and Stuart. With the repeated high-level pitch to metropolitan and parts of regional programs, thanks for letting me know that Albury is now in Victoria. I am just interested that with the consultations that took place there were 38 workshops. Take it on notice but are you able to let us know where those 38 workshops were — or, in fact, as far as north-east Victoria is concerned, was there one done in Wodonga?

25 August 2016 Law Reform, Road and Community Safety Committee 126 Mr JOHNS — There was one in Wodonga, at the Wodonga TAFE.

Mr TILLEY — Terrific. Thank you. That is interesting. What presence does PTV have in Wodonga now?

Mr JOHNS — We have regional offices based in Bendigo, Geelong and the Latrobe Valley, and Wodonga falls within the responsibility of our Bendigo office.

Mr TILLEY — Bendigo? Nowhere near me. Certainly, obviously it is under contract, and have got the contract in Wodonga. Is any consideration taken into the plan for Wodonga because significantly with public transport it is sitting on the border? Particularly with this inquiry looking at 18-year-olds and reducing the driving age to 17, is a huge problem for us. We have effectively got young people crossing over the border and breaking the law. They may achieve a drivers licence, but if they come back to Victoria and drive they are technically unlicensed, so they are breaking the law anyway. More to the point is the contribution and the work that PTV are doing across the state — and it is important work. With the bus connections particularly in Wodonga, you cannot get a bus on the weekend, unlike in other regional areas. What interests me is the relationship between and Victoria. What is the relationship and is there any memorandum of understanding or agreement cross-border?

Mr JOHNS — I would need to take that on notice.

Mr TILLEY — Yes. The fact is I know it is difficult for PTV — there are cross-state jurisdictions, with two separate state governments and those things — but I would like for you to take into consideration that, when you talk about the border at Albury and Wodonga, the catchment area is as big as Bendigo and it is as big as Ballarat, except we are divided by two state jurisdictions and the issues when it comes to youth engagement and getting transport around the area are significantly challenging and difficult.

We have a high proportion of youth engagement. We have got universities on both sides of the river. We have got Charles Sturt in New South Wales, the La Trobe campus and TAFE, and those bus connections are not working. I know that because my door is like a revolving door, with people having challenges with getting access to a bus. Going into, say, the school bus program, can you make some comment in relation to how that works, with leaving that responsibility to the schools in the area?

Mr JOHNS — If I can just go back one step?

Mr TILLEY — Yes, please.

Mr JOHNS — In addition to taking the MOU question on notice, what I will just add is when we do transport network planning at PTV we take a place-based approach. So there is a number of communities along the border where we operate services into New South Wales. For example, we operate coaches as far as Griffith, which is up in the Riverina, as I am sure you would know. We also operate to Canberra. On the other side, we do operate over to Adelaide as well. So our planning is not based around individual modes; it is around how people move, and the transport network needs to respond to how people move.

Just going back to the other, the school bus question, with the policy being owned by the Department of Education and Training, we would need to defer that question to them.

Mr TILLEY — Okay. Martins is the private provider in Albury and Dysons is the private provider for public transport solutions in the Wodonga area. In the scoping with the plans and the funding that is available to you, is there any particular opportunity in the future planning or is there any scope for better arrangements in the future to allow our youth to engage in education and employment? I am leaving aside the whole issue of about the social environment and going clubbing and after hours. I am not talking about that; I am just talking about employment opportunities.

Mr JOHNS — We do have a good relationship with our counterparts over the border at officer level, and when we do undertake any planning work that occurs in the border communities, we do liaise with our colleagues in New South Wales.

Mr TILLEY — Gentlemen, I do not apologise for being parochial.

Mr JOHNS — Not at all.

25 August 2016 Law Reform, Road and Community Safety Committee 127 The CHAIR — I presume, also, that through the RNDP process, some of those issues would have come up at consultations at Wodonga, that you would be then following up and working on?

Mr JOHNS — Absolutely.

Ms SULEYMAN — I am really happy that Fiona has raised the ticketing for students, because I believe that really impacts, the cost of ticketing for students. I think it is quite high at the moment, so it would be good to get the figures back. In relation to my electorate, St Albans, we have got good public transport, as in the train system, but then there is a real gap in relation to getting from the train stations getting home or to work. So the bus service and how it connects to the train network is an issue. I am just wondering, and I know you are constantly reviewing it, is there an opportunity? It is not just about reviewing the current bus route; the issue is about adding bus routes to those growing suburbs and areas. I do not know how frequently you would be able to do this, but can you look at some of those reviews and be able to implement new bus services rather than just reviewing the existing services and making minor changes?

Mr JOHNS — You will have to excuse me; I cannot remember whether it was 2014 or 2015. We did implement a new bus network in what we call the Brimbank area, which would include St Albans. One of our key focuses in providing a bus network is to ensure that it connects with other modes, so being able to get from your home to the local train station, for example, on a bus that connects or connects with another bus to get to major destinations such as, for example, Watergardens. We have factored that all into the work we have done. One of the key considerations in established areas that we are aware of is that there is densification happening. As Melbourne is growing very rapidly even our established suburbs are getting more population. It is not about just the greenfield estates. So we are looking at how demand occurs on the network, both demand on our existing services and forecast demand as more people move into an area, and we do add services as needed. It comes back to us. Our planning approach is very much place-based and it is around the local needs of local people.

Ms SULEYMAN — Just to add to that, I think the issue is that we are addressing one issue and then creating another problem. With your review, in particular for St Albans and Brimbank, you were able to cater for the growth in travel to Watergardens or Caroline Springs, but then in established areas where you have ageing communities they actually ended up really paying the price of the service going to the growth areas. That has been an ongoing issue. You may address the growth, that the students and the younger generation want to travel to Watergardens and Caroline Springs, but then it is at a cost to the pensioners in St Albans and those other established suburbs. They are 60-plus and may not be using public transport frequently but they do use the service and unfortunately you have a situation where a bus route is amended and then that whole pocket or catchment is disadvantaged.

Mr JOHNS — Look, it is really unfortunate when it happens. One of the things that we are always trying to improve on is how we consult. Unfortunately, when it comes to individual trips, it is really hard to glean that from data.

Ms SULEYMAN — Yes, and I think I have raised that previously. The method of PTV consulting is a real challenge because in certain demographics you need to be able to cater for that particular area. In my electorate of St Albans there was a letter drop to 30 households; the feedback was very low. I have raised this with the department, that they need to be really looking into the way that they consult, in particular with the technology that is available now — Facebook, social media and so on — looking at that as well.

Mr FEDDA — We appreciate that feedback.

Mr JOHNS — And take it on board.

Ms SULEYMAN — That is really critical, that you try. I know that younger people are taking up much more public transport in the evening, to get to work or entertainment or social events, whatever that may be. That is great, but then there is a whole gap of a bus service network that in some place is just non-existent.

Mr FEDDA — Stuart might be able to talk more to this, but part of the way that we try and plan bus networks is not only looking at what we might call connector/net services but also what we are calling neighbourhood bus routes, which specifically try to address the needs of those who perhaps are needing to access medical services in the local area and are not likely to necessarily be travelling directly to the train

25 August 2016 Law Reform, Road and Community Safety Committee 128 station. Those routes might be longer and take a little bit longer to get to parts of the local area. They are not as direct but they are really essential. They are targeted for passengers who are not travelling frequently, but it is a really important part of the way we plan bus networks that we do think about that segment.

Mr JOHNS — Just to add to that, on consultation again, I think since we did the consultation in Brimbank we have come a long way.

Ms SULEYMAN — Yes, I know you have.

Mr JOHNS — The Regional Network Development Plan was a real game changer in the way we consult, and I think that was very successful, because we did get people come along to the workshops from all ranges of the age spectrum, different abilities and different backgrounds. It was a really fantastic way to hear from different voices in the community. That set a real precedent and established a good methodology for us going forward.

The CHAIR — And you did make sure that at each of those sessions you had a good number of facilitators who appeared to be very well trained. That was my observation, too.

Mr JOHNS — Absolutely.

Ms PATTEN — It is much to my disappointment that this is not happening next year. Is there a due date to tick this all off?

Mr JOHNS — As I said before, we have received development funding from government and we are doing the development now, which will then inform the staging and deployment later on. The thing just to highlight with the regional rail network is that it is not all about passenger; we also need to consider the needs of the freight network.

Ms PATTEN — Absolutely.

Mr JOHNS — So while it might seem a no-brainer to put a passing loop in one part of the network to make the train more frequent, we need to make sure that also works for freight producers, because that is vitally important to maintaining regional jobs.

Ms PATTEN — Yes, absolutely. I guess it is just because one of our terms of reference is specifically about regional transport for younger people. If this was what we could print at the end of our report, this would be lovely — if we achieved this.

Mr TILLEY — Not quite.

Ms PATTEN — Sorry. Well, we are buying Albury in the process as well, so take that into account.

Mr TILLEY — Just quickly, and I am back to rail. Not wanting to state the bleeding obvious, but the standard gauge freight line that runs from the border of New South Wales into Melbourne is owned by the ARTC. I am not looking to refer this off to V/Line, but with the planning and those connections once again for the passenger rail service, as you say, it almost appears to be primarily a freight line. The passenger services on the north-east rail line seem to be almost like an annoying fly at a barbecue, where they should just get out of the way because it is a freight line. Is that a fair assumption?

Mr DIXON — Probably not.

Mr JOHNS — I am not sure that we can provide an opinion on that — I am sorry, through the Chair.

Mr TILLEY — Close to the mark, am I?

The CHAIR — Are you saying that there are limitations in terms of passenger transport because of freight requirements on that line in particular?

Mr JOHNS — I think we need to consider that it is a network. One of the outcomes from the RNDP was to actually look at how freight and passenger trains interact, and there are some recommendations within the plan to look at better control over how trains operate to ensure that passengers are not unduly delayed and we do not

25 August 2016 Law Reform, Road and Community Safety Committee 129 unduly delay freight as well. We operate a network and to us it is not just around moving people; it is also around keeping the state’s economy going and growing jobs and growing the state.

Mr TILLEY — Particularly when we have a population issue and getting people into those regional centres and having those connections.

Ms PATTEN — Yes.

Mr TILLEY — I will leave it at that, as long as I can satisfy the community that work is being done in this space for the whole of Victoria — not just sectional cherry picking claims of what is regional Victoria, but that there are lot bigger parts of regional Victoria.

Mr FEDDA — Indeed. Thank you.

The CHAIR — Alan and Stuart, thank you for your submission and for appearing before us, too.

Mr FEDDA — Our pleasure.

Committee adjourned.

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