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PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT GENERAL COMMITTEES Public Bill Committee HIGH SPEED RAIL (PREPARATION) BILL First Sitting Tuesday 9 July 2013 (Morning) CONTENTS Programme motion agreed to. Written evidence (Reporting to the House) motion agreed to. Motion to sit in private agreed to. Examination of witnesses. Adjourned till this day at Two o’clock. PUBLISHED BY AUTHORITY OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS LONDON – THE STATIONERY OFFICE LIMITED £6·00 PBC (Bill 010) 2013 - 2014 Members who wish to have copies of the Official Report of Proceedings in General Committees sent to them are requested to give notice to that effect at the Vote Office. No proofs can be supplied. Corrigenda slips may be published with Bound Volume editions. Corrigenda that Members suggest should be clearly marked in a copy of the report—not telephoned—and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons, not later than Saturday 13 July 2013 STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT WILL GREATLY FACILITATE THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF THE BOUND VOLUMES OF PROCEEDINGS IN GENERAL COMMITTEES © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2013 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1 Public Bill Committee9 JULY 2013 High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill 2 The Committee consisted of the following Members: Chairs: †ANNETTE BROOKE,JIM SHERIDAN † Burns, Mr Simon (Minister of State, Department † Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) (Lab) for Transport) † Reid, Mr Alan (Argyll and Bute) (LD) † Dakin, Nic (Scunthorpe) (Lab) † Shannon, Jim (Strangford) (DUP) † Dobson, Frank (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab) † Spelman, Mrs Caroline (Meriden) (Con) † Glass, Pat (North West Durham) (Lab) † Stewart, Iain (Milton Keynes South) (Con) † Greenwood, Lilian (Nottingham South) (Lab) † Sturdy, Julian (York Outer) (Con) † Hopkins, Kris (Keighley) (Con) † Vickers, Martin (Cleethorpes) (Con) † Lumley, Karen (Redditch) (Con) † Mahmood, Mr Khalid (Birmingham, Perry Barr) Neil Caulfield, Committee Clerk (Lab) † Morgan, Nicky (Loughborough) (Con) † attended the Committee Witnesses Councillor Sarah Hayward, Leader of the London Borough of Camden Councillor Jane Urquart, Portfolio for Planning and Transport, Nottingham City Council Sir Richard Leese, Manchester City Council Geoff Inskip, Chief Executive (Centro), Centro and Passenger Transport Executive Group Councillor Mark Winnington, Cabinet Member for Economy and Infrastructure, Staffordshire County Council Professor John Tomaney, Bartlett Professor of Urban and Regional Planning, University College London 3 Public Bill CommitteeHOUSE OF COMMONS High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill 4 Public Bill Committee Date Time Witness Tuesday Until no later Professor John Tomaney, Tuesday 9 July 2013 9 July than 11.25 am Professor of Urban and Regional Planning, University College London (Morning) Tuesday Until no later 51m; HS2 Action Alliance; 9 July than 3.00 pm Stop HS2 Tuesday Until no later Sheffield City Region Local [ANNETTE BROOKE in the Chair] 9 July than 4.00 pm Enterprise Partnership; Birmingham City Council High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill Tuesday Until no later Network Rail; Greengauge 9 July than 4.30 pm 21 8.55 am Tuesday Until no later Country Land and Business 9 July than 5.00 pm Association; Campaign to The Chair: I have a few preliminary announcements. Protect Rural England First, please would right hon. and hon. Members ensure Thursday Until no later British Chambers of that all electronic devices are turned off or switched to 11 July than 12.30 pm Commerce; Transport silent mode during Committee sittings? Scotland As a general rule, I and my fellow Chair do not Thursday Until no later Campaign for Better intend to call starred amendments, which are those that 11 July than 2.30 pm Transport; Passenger Focus have not been tabled with adequate notice. The required Thursday Until no later Institution of Civil notice period in Public Bill Committees is three working 11 July than 3.30 pm Engineers; Crossrail Limited; days, therefore amendments should be tabled by the HS1 Limited rise of the House on Monday for consideration on Thursday Until no later Rail Freight Group Thursday and by the rise of the House on Thursday for 11 July than 4.00 pm consideration on the following Tuesday. This Thursday Thursday Until no later Department for Transport; is the deadline for amendments for the first day of 11 July than 4.45 pm HS2 Limited line-by-line consideration on Tuesday next week. (3) proceedings on consideration of the Bill in Committee shall Not everyone is familiar with the process of taking (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at oral evidence in Public Bill Committees, so I shall 5.00 pm on Thursday 18 July.—(Mr Simon Burns.) briefly explain how we will proceed. The Committee will first be asked to consider the programme motion, Frank Dobson (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab): In so on which debate is limited to half an hour. We will then far as the programme motion relates to the time given proceed to a motion to report written evidence and then to witnesses, is it really appropriate that the Minister a motion to permit the Committee to deliberate in and HS2 Ltd should give evidence for only three quarters private in advance of the oral evidence sessions, which I of an hour after we have had six or seven hours of hope we can deal with formally. Assuming that the evidence from other people? second of those motions is agreed to, the Committee will move into private session, at which point non- The Chair: We are in a process wherein we make Committee members will be asked to leave the room for speeches at this stage, but if that is your speech, Mr Dobson, a brief period. Once the Committee has deliberated in that is fine. I ask the Minister to wind up if he wishes to private, the witnesses and members of the public will be do so. invited back into the room and our oral evidence session will begin. The Minister of State, Department for Transport Motion made, and Question proposed, (Mr Simon Burns): All I would say is that I think that That— that is a perfectly adequate period of time for the (1) the Committee shall (in addition to its first meeting at evidence sessions, because of course when the Committee 8.55 am on Tuesday 9 July) meet— goes into line-by-line consideration next week, right (a) at 2.00 pm on Tuesday 9 July; hon. and hon. Members on both sides will have an (b) at 11.30 am and 2.00 pm on Thursday 11 July; opportunity to raise issues, ask questions and seek (c) at 8.55 am and 2.00 pm on Tuesday 16 July; information. (d) at 11.30 am and 2.00 pm on Thursday 18 July; Question put and agreed to. (2) the Committee shall hear oral evidence in accordance with Resolved, the following Table: That, subject to the discretion of the Chair, any written evidence TABLE received by the Committee shall be reported to the House for publication.—(Mr Simon Burns.) Date Time Witness Tuesday Until no later London Borough of The Chair: Copies of written evidence that the Committee 9 July than 10.00 am Camden; Nottingham City receives will be available in the Committee Room. Council Resolved, Tuesday Until no later Manchester City Council; That, at this and any subsequent meeting at which oral 9 July than 11.00 am Staffordshire County evidence is to be heard, the Committee shall sit in private until Council; Geoff Inskip, on the witnesses are admitted.—(Mr Simon Burns.) behalf of Centro and the Passenger Transport 9am Executive Group The Committee deliberated in private. 5 Public Bill Committee9 JULY 2013 High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill 6 Examination of Witnesses station, such as the double deck down proposal or other Councillor Sarah Hayward and Councillor Jane Urquart options to keep the station on the footprint that it is gave evidence. now. Certainly, we are not getting the investment in terms of jobs and homes that we were promised at the outset of the project. 9.8 am The Chair: We will now hear oral evidence from the London borough of Camden and Nottingham city Q3 Lilian Greenwood: Are there realistic options for council. I remind all Members that questions should be developing Euston within its existing station envelope, limited to matters within the scope of the Bill, and that to avoid the sort of disruption to the local area that you we must stick to the timings in the programme motion are concerned about? the Committee has just agreed. I will have to interrupt Sarah Hayward: I am not a railway engineer, but mid-sentence if a session is still continuing at its scheduled people who are think that there are realistic options to finish time—apologies to our witnesses if that happens. explore things such as double deck down, which is a Members should declare any interests before the start two-tiered track with the classic tracks above and the of each panel in which that interest is relevant. I shall high-speed tracks below. That is one option; then there also ask our witnesses to declare any financial interests are options to move some of the suburban services to during the evidence sessions. Will the witnesses introduce other London train stations and reduce the pressure on themselves and tell us the positions they hold? I will Euston station in that way. We do not think that all then call Lilian Greenwood, who will commence the the alternatives have been properly considered. HS2 questioning for us this morning. jumped straight to a proposal that requires it to demolish buildings, homes and businesses on a piece of land the Sarah Hayward: I am Councillor Sarah Hayward, the size of the current St Pancras station.