You can’t forget things like that

Forgotten australians and Oral History former child migrants Project

Supported by You can’t forget things like that This booklet introduces the Forgotten Australians and Former Child Migrants Oral History collection held at the National Library of Australia. More than 200 people told their life stories in interviews recorded by specially trained You can’t historians. The quotations in the booklet are excerpted from interviews in the collection. Many interviews are available in full online, when interviewees have forget things given permission. We hope this booklet encourages people to listen to the full interviews, to know and understand the life history and experiences of like that Forgotten Australians and Former Child Migrants.

The electronic version of this booklet provides ‘live’ links to the full recorded interviews in the collection. It is available at: www.nla.gov.au/oral-history/forgotten- australians-and-former-child-migrants-oral-history-project

The National Library acknowledges the generosity of all those who freely gave their time to be interviewed and thanks the Alliance for Forgotten Australians, Care Leavers Australia Network (CLAN), the Child Migrants Trust and the International Association of Former Child Migrants and Their Families for their encouragement and support. We also thank staff of the Department of Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs who have guided and supported work on the oral history project.

Copyright: This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.

Project Manager: Joanna Sassoon

Booklet text: Paul Cliff

ISBN: 978-0-642-27827-2

Editorial note: Some minor edits (such as elisions, added punctuation, insertion of missed words indicated in square brackets) have been made to some quotes for ease of reading, sense, context and continuity.

Although it is common general usage to refer to children as having been ‘in care’, people who had this experience in childhood do not consider they experienced care. For this reason we use ‘care’ and similarly Home, to make Forgotten australians and Oral History clear that this was an institutional residence and not the home of a family. former child migrants Project The descriptive terms for individuals used after the quotes are those chosen by the interviewee. Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

The Forgotten It was so regimented we could’ve been in the army. Australians and Get up at six, be on your job Former Child Migrants by half past, be back at ten to seven to make your bed … oral history project and put your apron on. And then breakfast, and then half On 16 November 2009, as part of The recordings put flesh on the Most interviewees were in Homes, past seven you went to work the National Apology to Forgotten bones of other forms of historical institutions, ‘orphanages’ (although again [before school]. And Australians and Former Child records, present a deep and complex many were not, in fact, orphans) or we were cleaning floors and Migrants, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd picture of the experience, and show placed with foster families during announced that the National Library the scars. the 1940s to 1960s, prior to the everything. There was of Australia would undertake a major major changes in child welfare policy nothing we didn’t do. The Forgotten Australians and national oral history project on the introduced by governments in the Former Child Migrants oral history MAVIS lifelong impact of institutional and 1970s. After this time, more emphasis Former Child Migrant project brings a diverse range of out-of-home ‘care’. Three years later was placed on keeping families memories into a single collection. more than 200 interviews have been connected, and children were placed The majority of those interviewed recorded for this project. in smaller ‘cottage homes’. experienced institutional life as These oral history interviews enable children. There are also some The oral history interviews are those who lived the experience to interviews with policy-makers, archived and preserved for tell their stories in their own words. administrators and employees of posterity in the National Library’s children’s Homes as well as those collection and, when interviewees who now provide support or act as have given permission, their advocates for Forgotten Australians interviews are available online and Former Child Migrants. Some through the National Library Nobody loved you, advocates were also in institutions website, at www.nla.gov.au you were unlovable; and foster homes during their you weren’t worth anything, childhood. nobody wanted you. Forty-one interviewers conducted You didn’t belong to anybody. interviews across Australia, recording You just [survived] from the experiences of people who had day to day … been in ‘care’ from the 1920s to Vera the 1980s. The oldest interviewee Forgotten Australian was 98 and the youngest was 34.

2 3 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

the interviewees

Many thousands of people in Australia in careers in business, education, were placed in children’s Homes religious life, journalism, policing, and institutions. The 2004 Inquiry agricultural work, labouring, nursing by the Senate Community Affairs or the welfare sector. Others had References Committee found there difficulty finding work, or keeping jobs, were an estimated 500 000 ‘Forgotten due to their poor education or mental Australians’ and 6000 Former Child and physical health issues. The Migrants, who spent their childhood in array of childhood experiences was some 800 institutions across Australia also carefully represented—ranging throughout the twentieth century. For from stability living in a single Home the oral history project more than or foster placement, to situations 200 interviewees represent the many of frequent movement as children experiences and lifelong impacts were shunted between institutions, of being separated from family in or between Homes and foster care, childhood. reception centres and juvenile justice institutions, or across states. Interviewees represent differences Many interviewees experienced the such as age, gender, length of time disruption of multiple placements in Rob Willis interviewing Patricia Kirby in Queensland. spent in Homes, experiences in their childhood. the various state systems, city and country locations, and within different Interviews were also recorded with whose parents had been in institutions and the age of the child when key types of ‘care’. One hundred and people who worked in the institutional as children. formative experiences occurred. thirty institutions across Australia are system, as administrators, social The interviews reveal a wide range of A significant number of interviewees represented: small and large, run workers and teachers; or who influences and impacts which have had never previously spoken of by state governments, churches, are campaigners, advocates, and shaped lives. They illuminate factors or documented their childhood charities and other non-government supporters of those who were in like the role of key individuals in a experiences. organisations. Homes as children. Some interviews child’s life, such as teachers or friends; were recorded with partners, siblings It is impossible not to be affected by Interviewees come from many the lifelong impact of loss of contact and relatives of Forgotten Australians the pain, power and poignancy of walks of life, with a wide range of with family and siblings, the degree and Former Child Migrants; separated these life histories. experiences. Some were successful of access to education or health care, family members and with people

4 5 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

Former child migrants

In the years following World War II, deported directly from the Homes children from the United Kingdom and they lived in and permission from Malta were sent to Australia under parents for their migration was The thing that gets me is that a lot approved child migration schemes. seldom sought. The last official child Children were seen to assimilate migrant party travelled to Australia of these child migrants came here more easily, were adaptable, had a by air in 1967. Many Former Child unrecognised, not even acknowledged. long working life ahead of them and Migrants are still coming to terms When I came and asked for my could be accommodated cheaply with their deportation; loss of identity; passport, I didn’t exist … My name in dormitory style institutions and and separation from family and was not on the migration [register] … Homes. These government schemes homeland. In 2010 the British and That’s part of the many stories that addressed Australia’s needs at the Maltese governments made formal child migrants can tell you. time for population growth and apologies to Former Child Migrants labour. Few were orphans; many were and their families. Michael former child migrant

… you have been chosen to go to Australia. Now it may have been Mars or the moon as far as I was concerned … You’re going to ride horseback to school and you’re going to pick fruit from the trees. Well nothing was more further from the bloody truth. tony former child migrant, western australia

6 7 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

But again [my mother’s] health let her down and she ended up not being able to look after us. So it was through ‘care’ in an uncle that chose to be twentieth-century influential in getting us sent out to Pinjarra in Western Australia Australia … we understand it was some sort of mental breakdown caused For much of the twentieth century Not long after that [my institutions, as were children who through stress in life, I guess. there were few services to support father] up and left. My mother were deemed by welfare authorities Post-world war babies, single families who hit hard times, were then realised that she needed to be ‘uncontrollable’. mother, black sheep of the poor or undergoing crisis. Until to get a job. And she couldn’t Forgotten Australians and Former family syndrome. Typical British the Commonwealth government find anyone to mind the children Child Migrants talk of their attitudes to those sorts of things introduced a supporting mother’s understanding of, or ignorance, or benefit in 1973, few women on their at all, because we were just so in those days. So the uncle that confusion about, the reasons they own could afford to raise children, little. She … asked her stepfather was influential in arranging our were placed in children’s Homes, unless they could draw on support if she could live in his home in removal, I think, frowned upon and relate how their circumstances from other family members, or their Woolwich until she got onto her attracted the attention of authorities. the very fact that she had had local community. There was little feet and found something else, Some interviewees were too young to these liaisons and we were affordable childcare available to a somewhere to live. And Pa … remember, or still do not know why the result of that. working father if his wife died or said to her, … ‘I’ll take you and they were taken from their families. left him, and it was widely believed Tony the boy, Eva, but I will not Some reflect on what would have Former Child Migrant, that lone fathers were not capable happened if they had not been Western Australia of caring for their children. Women take the girls’. institutionalised. Some came from who had children outside marriage Phileppa families who experienced generations of being in institutions, while for others were also pressured to give up their Forgotten Australian it was the family’s first experience of children for adoption because of the welfare system, arising from a social stigma; some placed their alcohol abuse; or it was perceived family crisis. In the interviews welfare children in a Home so they could at they had no-one to properly care for [My step father] was a workers also provide their perspective least keep contact with them. them. Children were then made ‘state violent alcoholic … That on the removal of children. wards’ and placed into institutions Children were brought before or other out-of-home ‘care’ until relationship ended and mum While many family situations were courts not only for crimes and they turned 18 or 21. It was also moved to a hostel in Sydney. not good, once taken into ‘care’ misdemeanours but also charged with common practice to place children And they wouldn’t take boys. children often experienced harsh being neglected, of no fixed abode, in institutions if they had physical or So I got put into Bexley North and demeaning treatment, were likely to lapse into a life of crime mental disabilities. Young girls could deprived of adequate food, clothing or vice or if authorities considered Boys Home … I’d have to have be charged with being exposed to and education and often subjected their home lives involved violence or been 6 or 7, I suppose. moral danger and placed in ‘training’ to cruelty and abuse. John Forgotten Australian 8 9 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

The InsTitutions

Institutional ‘care’ was provided Home children. Many institutions ran by charities, state government their own school classes and children and religious organisations, and rarely or never went out into the sometimes by individuals, who were community, adding to their isolation usually, but not always, assisted and feelings of abandonment. [I remember] these with government subsidies. While Children felt stigmatised by being in there was generally some degree ‘care’. In many families, a misbehaving big gates closing, and I am When I was naughty yelling out ‘Mummy, Mummy!’ of government involvement in the child was threatened with being institutionalisation of children, such sent to an orphanage. Children in she would threaten me … and she said: ‘Think yourself as through the licensing of Homes, foster families often felt unwanted or ‘I’m going to send you up to lucky, this is a better home there were also children placed in isolated, not part of the family, and St Joseph’s Home for you’ll get than anywhere else’ ‘care’ through informal arrangements. might also be exploited, abused or Wayward Girls!’ … and that … I remember those gates Later in the twentieth century there mistreated by foster family members. was the worst punishment closing and thought, even were changes in approach­—from Interviewees describe what their you could think of. large institutions, to smaller cottage then: ‘Well, here we go’, childhood experiences meant. Some and foster homes, with major changes WINSOME and I was five or six. felt they fared well; others were DAUGHTER OF A in child welfare policy occurring in brutalised, and considered they were FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIAN ROBERT the 1970s. FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIAN not so much ‘in care’ or cared for, Large, old, high-walled forbidding as incarcerated. Many describe how, ‘orphanage’ buildings asserted a when finally leaving institutions, they strong physical and psychological were ill-prepared for life outside. Some presence in Australian cities and reflect on what worse things may towns. Some children were sent have happened had there not been a to institutions housed in former system of out-of-home care available. colonial prisons. Children’s Homes were often on the outskirts of towns and interviewees felt that local communities did not want to know

10 11 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

Oh … he used to often take us for Chinese lunch. And we just talked. I was told, like everyone We did different things. I remember we went round the cemetery else, that there was no one, one day. Just looking at the different ages. We’d go for a walk. you were orphans and that It was just lovely to be with him. Cuddle him and kiss him and know was it … I distinctly remember he loved you … it was like being in Disneyland. You knew for however asking one of the nuns … long Dad was there you were safe, and loved. the impact in England if I had parents and Ruth on siblings she said ‘No’ and I accepted FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIAN that all my life until 10 years and parents ago … and then things changed dramatically of course because were told their children had died. I didn’t know [my Some siblings were separated, with Some children were never told their most of us found out that we did mother] had died until one one being removed while brothers have parents and family. parents wanted them. and sisters stayed with parents, or of the nuns called me up, said A common policy of preventing were sent elsewhere. Some were Maurice I was wanted in the office. parents from contacting or visiting placed in the same institution but Former Child Migrant It was very matter of fact: ‘It’s a children in institutions had enormous grew apart; the nature of institutional impact. In later life, many interviewees fact, so get on with it’, she said, life breaking family connection or siblings had died. Some people did discovered letters on files kept about ‘… your mother died last night affecting siblings in different ways. not want to reunite with their siblings. them by institutions or government go to the church and say a Boys and girls were usually separated When siblings did reunite, they departments showing that their prayer for her’. And that was it, in Homes and contact between often faced challenges in rebuilding parents had tried to make contact, siblings was often not encouraged. relationships. I didn’t know how to take it … or have them released and returned Family separation had impacts at the should I be crying? The prevailing attitude of home to them. Letters sent to children time of separation and throughout predominantly middle-class social in Homes from family members were Dilys later life. The loss of contact with Former Child Migrant workers about the need to break opened and vetted, with content cut family meant some people never family bonds to protect children from or censored. Other children were knew they had siblings, did not find situations which were perceived to be allowed to keep some contact, writing them until later in life or found their To me there was no emotion, unhealthy led to harsh judgements letters home, but their letters were about the adequacy of family care. also vetted. when I saw my brother I just When the state removed children didn’t know how to react … I wished for a mother from their families both children and He said to me years later many, many times. I thought parents were deceived. Many children I can remember this ‘I felt safe at Bindoon about having a mother … were told they were orphans or that strange lady every six months because you were there big if I had a mother, what their parents did not want them. … I was too young to realise brother.’ … It’s very hard to Parents seeking the return of their would she look like? I think what a mother describe but … There was children were falsely told the children Patricia would have been. no bonding allowed to take Former Child Migrant had been adopted, or were living in a happy and stable family. Many Former Ken place … well, it didn’t take Child Migrants believe their mothers Former Child Migrant/ place at Bindoon … There was ward of the state no bonding, no kinship. 12 Laurie 13 Former Child Migrant Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

When we have our annual meetings you can see the effect of being locked up in the Home. You can see what it does to your mind. It affects you physically and mentally … I was unable to talk after I had been there for 6–12 months, from the age of about 7; I couldn’t hold a conversation. I suffered from a severe bout of stammering, I could never even say my own name. That lasted until I was nearly thirty years of age. People say I talk a lot these days, I the life-long got 30 years to make up for it … I taught myself how to overcome it. impact Doug Forgotten Australian, wangaratta

Being institutionalised as a child police or defence forces. Despite their shaped lives in many different ways. institutionalised childhoods, many Many care-leavers suffer from poor interviewees had successful careers physical health or bear psychological in a wide range of occupations. Unhappy, desperate, scars. Poor education, resulting in low The repercussions are also felt by the disturbed children don’t bond. levels of numeracy and literacy, may partners and children of Forgotten They’re all trying to save their have affected their ability to find work Australians and Former Child Migrants. own skin. They don’t know who or meant they could only work in low- Some who were in institutions as to trust, because someone paying jobs. Some people have been children find it difficult to be parents on social welfare benefits for much could tell on you to save their or have chosen not to have children. of their lives. Some rebelled against own skin … it’s a horrible system. Some experience difficulty sustaining the sorts of structured systems in It’s what happens in totalitarian relationships, have had several which they had been raised and did regime … Goodness can go partners, or transient relationships. not like being directed at work, or told For others, a stable marriage and when survival is involved. what to do. For others, institutional creating a trusting, strong and Joanna life pointed the way towards loving family has been a defining Forgotten Australian employment in environments such Former Child Migrant characteristic of their adult life. as correctional services, nursing, the Pat Carlson with a photo of her mother.

My wife Betty, she taught me how to sign my name … I thought I owed a debt to society because of the way I was and she taught me how to read a bit, and spelling … when I was a ward of the state, I was uncontrollable at times … because of lack of having no schooling through the boys Home … that was the reason I joined the army, I sort of had a choice: I was never taught of schooling, … I was robbed, I would say, continue on my merry way … down the path of criminal activity … of my education, my childhood and my youth. So I made the choice [and enlisted for Vietnam] and I thought: Ron ‘Well, I’ve paid my debt to society’. And I came back and Forgotten Australian get treated like I was worse than when I went away. Tony 14 Forgotten Australian 15 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

If I come back into the next world, I perhaps would have a mother and father wouldn’t I? … … the sense of insecurity is always there. Because … My sister had a daughter called Valerie, and I realistically you’ve got no support system. Unless you thought: Well, it would be lovely just to get a little actually get married and have your own family which contact with somebody that’s your own. then creates your own support system that way, and your Betty children might look after you in your old age … I suspect Forgotten Australian, victoria there’s a lot of people from institutions like Westmead, like me, who … are alone, who haven’t got married, and I didn’t even understand that I would have been carrying issues, haven’t been successful in relationships I suspect. There’s particularly anger … I was very angry in those days. And often a disproportionate number of us who haven’t been all that wonder how … my kids lived with me … In a shop, if someone successful. And … in the final analysis we’re on our own. was served before me, I would just go berserk … It’s sort of Denis only in hindsight that you think of the damage that I could have the Forgotten people done to not only my kids but to … anyone and everyone. I think growing up that way must have had a huge impact on my marriage. I was freaky about lots of things … ‘Don’t touch me!’ ‘Don’t look at me!’ … Not able to express how I felt … you don’t know that at the time, I certainly know it now. If I’ve learnt nothing Caroline else, it’s taught me a really Forgotten Australian good lesson. It’s taught me the life I’ve had­­—being I didn’t want children through the Home and anyway because the thought what I’ve gone through— of anything happening and it’s really taught me … them ending up in the sort I still say the rosary to have a really good of organisation or situation every night in bed. If I wake up attitude. It’s also taught me that I was in, was just during the night I say it again. to have a determined horrendous. I keep my rosary beads attitude. Which I haven’t had under my pillow. from relatives or anybody, Michael Forgotten Australian Kathleen and in my past life Forgotten Australian I’ve really had no help. Robert Forgotten Australian, former victorian state ward John Walsh with a photo of his mother. 16 Hidden child of the war years 17 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

It will be hard for people listening to this to understand, but when you’re institutionalised … you obey every rule, every direction; you do it on time, every time. You don’t argue, don’t think about it. You just do it. It was a violent place, joe daily life there were lots of fights … Forgotten Australian when you put a hundred boys The quality of care provided in Homes altogether there’s going to be varied greatly. Differences might arise competition and rough house No movies, no nothing. Nothing for kids … You were all in the from size or location, accessibility stuff … I found the threat of one [class] … There was no education here. They just kept you to family, or the degree to which children made friends, received an violence almost as bad to bear going until [the boys] were old enough to go and work on a farm, education, or were offered sporting or as the actual violence, ’cos and the girls were old enough to go down and be nannies to recreational opportunities. Sometimes you never knew when you people in Portland and places like that, look after their kids … little things made a big difference to were going to get it. They weren’t there to educate you really. whether institutional life was bearable Frank JEAN or a terrible experience. Former state ward Former Child Migrant Individuals were affected in very different ways. Some found their experience provided a welcome order which they had lacked in the There was brutal behaviour and family environment, or provided them crimes were committed—cruelty, We were all lined up. with opportunities and helped them physical, sexual or psychological We had our baths and then prosper. Others resented the regimen abuse inflicted by secular and we all lined up for our Hypol and When I was little we of bells, sirens and whistles. Many religious staff, visitors, foster parents our molasses. And to this day used to do what every other interviewees talked about bed- and other children. There was high I can’t stand either. wetting, a common response from staff turnover. Employees who child does—play on swings and BARBARA challenged or tried to change the stuff. And we went on excursions, children under stress, often resulting Former child in care like to the park … And they had in humiliating punishments. There system for the better were pushed were many comments about poor out. Abusers were unaccountable— a swimming pool built then. interviewees consider themselves or inadequate food. Some enjoyed when children reported incidents of to have been inmates; neglected, I remember seeing it get built … farm or outdoor building work; others violence, abuse or sexual assault they humiliated or exploited; worked I enjoyed being with other felt the hard physical cleaning and were not believed. There was little to like slaves; and deprived of proper kids as well. labouring work required of them was no action taken to stop the abuse or medical or dental healthcare, and of a exploitative or enslaving. Few children punish the perpetrator; sometimes Annie decent education. Forgotten Australian, in Homes experienced affection, or the perpetrator was moved to another former victorian state ward interest from staff. Home exposing more children to the The institutions also affected the risk of abuse. Looking back, many employees working within them.

18 19 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

He did [the superintendent] A lot of kids suffered from bedwetting … encourage me, I think he saw that I had the machine consists of a plastic, cylindrical piece some potential so he was adamant that of equipment … put onto your penis … you’d wrap I finish school. Because each year he a belt with small metal bits around your waist and always wanted someone to graduate, if this was all attached to this tin sort of box which you like, and I was the star pupil from my was plugged into the wall. If you urinated in the final year, which was in 1959. night it would … cause you to have an electric George shock around your waist. Former ward of the state Peter Former Child Migrant

In the primary school dormitory [first] night … I was in a bed … I suppose it would be a bit like hospital food or nursing home next to this little guy who started to cry and call for his mum, food nowadays. I wouldn’t say it was survival rations. I mean, the doors flung open, and all the lights turned on, a Salvation I tend to remember porridge quite a lot. You know, or tapioca, Army officer came in and just started beating him. So that was those type of things. Or rice pudding. Once again, I think, you my first introduction to the Home … It needn’t have happened. know, you had meat meals with vegetables, that type of thing. Where was it written down that kids had to be beaten up? I won’t say the meals were unhealthy, just very pedestrian. Clem Mark Forgotten Australian Forgotten Australian

I can remember boys getting Sexual abuse and perversions like that smacked across the ears and so on. were in the dead of night … there was no And having to line up and march escape … and unfortunately in that situation here and march there. And we were there were a couple of men … who should frightened of getting hit. That was have never ever have been allowed near kids … when I was real little. I suffered under a paedophile monk, Ralph who would take me to his bed. Forgotten Australian, Bert known as boy number 59 Former Child Migrant

20 21 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

We used to make shanghais … with a piece of rubber. No one had Survival and any tongues in their shoes, ’cause that was the bit that was perfect … and we resilience were allowed to shoot birds … parrots, finches, and all those sorts of things … Interviewees tell of a variety of ways We’d eat ’em. in which they tried to cope—to survive physically, psychologically and Probably the only possessions Graham south australia emotionally. A few formed a bond with I really valued would have been a staff member, such as a teacher. my books … I do remember Many acknowledge the importance having a few books and reading of childhood friends, some of whom a lot … always wanting to read subsequently met with premature … and, because we had so death, sometimes at their own hand. little, needing to read books Some coped by maintaining a sense of humour or applying themselves over and over again. to studies. There was bullying; some Deidre survived by aggression, learning to Former foster kid fight, asserting their strength over others, or forming gangs. A few enjoyed music, reading, sport or hobbies; or in rural areas, hunting and foraging, taking fruit from orchards to I was utterly alone except for these other boys. And again, my Naomi Rye supplement meagre institutional food. with dolls she From their childhood experiences, accent didn’t help me. Most of had in dalmar some built lifelong resilience. them came from England, there childrens home, I was so miserable there … the larger a gift But there were a few bits of light. were about two Scots in the party from her father. … But I learnt some surviving Forgotten There was a girl called Penny … And skills. The main one was to attach Australian her mother made chocolate. And myself to the toughest of the sometimes she would give me some others there. And keeping my of this chocolate … And it was like the head under the line of trenches. only sweet thing in my life. NEIL Victoria Former Child Migrant From Tasmania

22 23 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

An inadequate system The whole system Almost everyone involved—those seemed to be geared to committed to Homes and institutions, keeping us [my brother and as well as employees—was affected sisters and me] apart. And I [The staff] were mean, awful. But I can look by the experience, and many were resented that at the time and back … now, and say they were uneducated. troubled by it. Interviewees express I resent it still. Because each They didn’t have any parental skills; they a wide range of responses, and time I went somewhere [another did all that they knew how to do. A lot give diverse perspectives on the would disagree with me with that, I imagine, relationships between children and Home] the others were one step ahead of me. In spite of because they would have been dealt a lot those working in the system. worse than we were. Present-day advocates supporting promises otherwise. Pam Forgotten Australians and Former Ivor Forgotten Australian Child Migrants also discuss the survivor of the shortcomings of the system, and christian brothers system its effects.

And then I remember a big black car coming to the house. … the Church was almighty wasn’t it, And the men were in suits. It was very intimidating. And they … it was all powerful … All the people that do walked in, they looked around the house. They asked [questions], this stuff are at the top of the [hierarchy]. like police, like detectives. But they weren’t, they were welfare You’ve got the lower forms of paedophiles. workers. And I didn’t like them. They were tall, they didn’t But these abusers, these ones, they know introduce themselves to us. And we were very smart children, and the system so well … they make the rules children should be treated like human beings, not like … animals. for the system to suit their needs. And then I remember they told us all to get in the car … all five of I mean, it’s the way it is. us into the car and not told anything. Nothing whatsoever. Keith Mary Forgotten Australian Forgotten Australian

24 25 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

[My experience] kind of sat there as something unresolved. Nothing good came out of it, nothing ongoing or long-term or meaningful to me came out of it … And I suspect nothing positive or of lasting value The philosophy was very much happened for those girls as a result of my one of control, and child-care being there. And that’s not comfortable. workers were sometimes judged Marie by their superiors as to how well teacher in an institution they controlled children: that is kids not behaving in a way that would either harm other children or disrupt sections … There wasn’t a great understanding of child development in the formal training that we did. Knowledge had to be handed on by word-of-mouth. The assumption was that the John Child Welfare Worker social worker coming in would know what to do because they’ve been trained what to do—but it was difficult for them to find material that tells them how the place was working or should work … Because people didn’t understand what they were coming into, as late as 1970. Donella Social Worker

26 27 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

I wanted to know who I was, and what happened. You know, and what were written in files about me. Access to Patricia recordS Forgotten Australian

Many Forgotten Australians and And she came out and Former Child Migrants seek access to brought a file … there was I did ask the orphanage … official records of their time in ‘care’ enough information there just for their records. And they hoping they will find in them the key to tell me, and to answer some I don’t know, it’s hard to said that the church was to their identity and clues for tracing of the questions that I had fathom out, because you see lost family. However, many are let being done up. Or their always been asking myself … all this stuff there and you say down not only with the content of their offices were being done it confirmed where I ‘Is that really me?’ And I’ve been records but also with the process of up. And it was all down in was born. into hospital so many times. gaining access to them. storage, and something else I saw the hospital visits­— With so many separate jurisdictions, Wilfred like that. But I tried and tried Forgotten Australian there must have been welfare systems, and institutions and tried. And then I tried about six to ten visits —all with diverse record-keeping the welfare, but I seemed to I think, maybe. arrangements—people often find it risks that reading files will lead to legal run into a brick wall. difficult to gain access to personal action or claims for compensation. Michelle Rose state ward, queensland files. They may be denied access Those who were given access to Michael to files they regard as ‘theirs’ by files had mixed feelings about the Former Child Migrant institutional policies, concerns about information they contained. Some the privacy of others, or perceived found the files insufficient, containing scant information, or content which was false, or misrepresented the situation they remember. Others were I don’t really want to … when I applied for information by the Freedom of Information [find my records]. Haven’t heartbroken to find files contained letters from family members which at the time I got one file which basically begins at about the age found the need … What am they never knew about, revealing that of 8. And the file previous to that had apparently been burnt, I going to find in there that a parent had sent letters or presents lost in a fire in … Parkdale where they apparently used to keep I need to find out? which had never been received. Some all the files. records have been lost or destroyed, David Allan Forgotten Australian the history of the children’s lives Former state ward, victoria burned in institutional incinerators.

28 29 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

[My father’s] funeral was an interesting experience because I ran into my sister Marie [who] hadn’t seen me since I was probably Connecting and 6 or 7 … And she looked at me, and said: reconnecting ‘I know you from somewhere, vaguely. Who are you exactly? I kind of remember you.’ with family I said: ‘Look, I happen to be your brother.’ And that of course was the end for her, Connecting or reconnecting with Now I understand that she was in tears. family raises many issues. For many what I have done has not James Former Child Migrants, distance, the been a small thing, Forgotten Australian expense of travel and the difficulty to find my family. of getting access to records held overseas, made it particularly hard to Oliver locate family. Forgotten Australians Former Child Migrant also face obstacles finding family. Somebody knocked on the door … Red Cross or Salvation Many interviewees express a profound have become strangers to each Army … they said there was a young man in Australia who sense of loss on discovering that other. Some do not want to reunite. has this address on his birth certificate … were you living they no longer have surviving family For others, reuniting with family was here in 1944? … And of course they were. So my mother more positive, providing answers to members. Even when family members said yes and she got very emotional, ‘It must be Peter’ … are located some feel sadness and many questions, including the central It absolutely opened a real can of worms … My mother loss at not being able to relate easily: ones of ‘Who am I?’ and ‘Where do I parents, brothers and sisters may come from?’ waited to tell Nora [Peter’s mother] who cried all night … Barbara speaking about her Former child migrant cousin and his mother We were fortunate enough to find my mother. After fifty When I first met my years almost to the day … natural mum … she said: the other side of the coin is Do I have a brother still? … If that’s the ‘I wondered what would happen we also found that we had a case he may know something more about me to you, and whether you would half-brother … and the sad than I know … Is he still alive, would he know end up in prison.’ part about that is that he my father, my mother, if we had one? … I want to look into it … I would be happy to Les was also not aware that he Former state ward, tasmania had two brothers, Terry and find my mother’s grave; I don’t think for one I in Australia. minute she’s alive today. Michael Bob Former Child Migrant Former Child Migrant

30 31 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

I told my story for the first time. And everybody, including me cried the whole way through. This was the time I started to heal. justice and Slowly but surely. Yoonthalla healing Forgotten Australian

Many interviewees are working to move on. Some found reconciliation, their duty of care towards children achieve justice for those who were acknowledgment or a degree of and of the people who abused in institutions as children, in a range consolation in the National Apology institutionalised children, but were of different ways—as advocates, to Forgotten Australians and Former never brought to justice or punished counsellors, support service workers Child Migrants given on 16 November for crimes against children. Many We have to judge by and in self-help groups. 2009, and associated gestures from who were in ‘care’ as children remain the standards of the time. state governments and religious concerned about what will happen to But … the failures were Achieving ‘justice’ in a legal context organisations. the children of today who are removed is a difficult issue and the concept of appalling. Because there has from their families by child welfare ‘redress’ (compensation payments) For others, there remains a deep never been a time when society departments, or through the juvenile is complex. For some, redress has sense of hurt, grievance, and anger at thought it was appropriate to justice system. not been an issue, they have been the ‘care’ system—fuelled by thoughts sexually abuse children … able somehow to accept matters and of how many past providers breached [or] to beat the shit out of some kid … Trying to prove 20 or 30 years down the track I went through the that the beating was a beating, [As Premier] I signed off … compensation Redress program … and and not [‘justifiable’] corporal payouts to wards of state abused in state care. finally got a letter … from punishment … That is I read many of the case files … I read the form the Government … it was a something that my clients letters that the Department prepared for me pre-signed letter, which struggle with and I struggle with about how I was personally sorry, and each one [the Premier] probably it as well … Even by applying of them I wanted to ring them up, or write a sent out to everybody … standards of the time, there personal handwritten note on the bottom They have not shown me were gross failures. of them and I didn’t. they were serious—to get a Angela David Bartlett pre-stamped letter from a Lawyer A former state ward who premier … it meant nothing. became premier of Tasmania Denis ex state ward

32 33 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

See, the hardest thing The Child Migrants of Malta were successful in getting a for bureaucrats to deal with is monument built in Malta and an apology from the Maltese number one: truth. Number two is government. For some people that was very symbolic and memories. Number three is those very significant … it was an acknowledgment of guilt of that have the guts to say, ‘hey, error, of poor public policy, of ill treatment of children and we’re going to take you on and so on … for others of course … it simply will not go far we’re going to win.’ And number enough and they’ll want to pursue it to the next stage … four is persistence. David Allan Former child migrant Forgotten Australian

This is not Catholicism, this is not God … this is a few people who have operated in an environment where they were not stopped … [My father’s] anger was not necessarily at the men who committed the crimes, who perhaps were even victims themselves … [but] at the bureaucracy of the church that didn’t say ‘This is wrong!’ … They would just move [the priests] into other areas where there were more boys, more children and that is what he was angry about … disgusted and appalled and angry at the men who committed these terrible deeds, but he was more angry, I think, that [authorities] turned a blind eye. Natalia daughter of Advocate

Peter Hicks Forgotten Australian

34 35 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

Reflections

For years, many Forgotten Australians National Apology ‘we believe you’ has When [Opposition Leader, Malcolm and Former Child Migrants did not talk been validating and empowering. Turnbull] said those three words, ‘We believe you’, about their past, as they felt ashamed, Some of those interviewed had that was very, very much to my heart, because … were concerned about stigma; how previously told of their experiences: the disbelief, the helplessness, and having nobody people would respond, or that their to the media, to government to turn to—and then this man … says that … telling of past experiences would not inquiries, or in blogs, memoirs and be believed. Some denied their past, on behalf of his party, and also from a personal autobiographies. Others had never making a new identity by deliberately level … I was really, really affected by that, before told their story; some needed leaving the past behind. Many people much more so than I thought. encouraging that it was worth telling. now feel they can talk more openly Sue in public, as well as with families Forgotten Australian and loved ones. Malcolm Turnbull’s statement in his speech at the

… he [British Prime You didn’t have a voice as an It wasn’t until we went away for our twentieth wedding Minister Gordon Brown] gave ‘orphan’ … it was a secret, anniversary that it came up in conversation … I told him pretty a very dignified, eloquent, you didn’t tell people you much everything I could remember, and it was really nice to sincere, moving Apology. I was were an orphan … If you be able to talk about it. It made me feel validated. Kind of sad deeply moved, it brought me to told an adult that you were that it took 20 years to get to that point … There were so many tears … welcoming us back to an orphan, the first traumas, poor thing! It took a while to get through all of them! the land of our birth. thing they said was: ‘What did you do wrong?’ Janet michael Forgotten Australian Former child migrant Brett Forgotten Australian

36 37 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

I hope that in years to come if someone reads this story that they get some … inspiration from it. Ray Forgotten Australian

Bob’s first wife knew nothing, his children knew nothing … and yet the first day [we met] For … a significant number of people who were in ‘care’ he … started to tell me about his childhood … as children, they don’t talk about it, they don’t even And I was absolutely staggered, I believed acknowledge it. As one of our … members said to me … him but it was like a Charles Dickens novel … he has never told even his wife and his children … that he It was unbelievable to me that it had happened was brought up in ‘care’. And he said, ‘How can you tell an in my lifetime and I knew nothing about it … employer that you were brought up in ‘care’, because they Carol immediately think you were bad.’ Wife of Former Child Migrant Maria Social Worker

I was starting to have nightmares [about my husband’s story] … I had to tell my doctor … [who said] ‘the Salvation Army, they couldn’t do anything bad to kids … they’d be caring …’ And I knew then why he probably had closed up and didn’t say anything for so long: … she did not believe … [and my husband] said, ‘Now you know what I mean … I tried to tell people years ago … and they just [said]: “Get away and stop telling lies!”.’ Hazel wife of Forgotten Australian

Forgotten Australian Warren Porter and his wife Hazel 38 39 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

I just wanted to see I’ve been more than compensated what it looked like. A lot of the with family life. Northcote [Children’s buildings are wrecked, inside Home] is still my family … people is all wrecked, windows been accept you as family. So everybody is smashed … Too much memories wonderful … I haven’t missed family. returning … just brought memories back. I’ve still got family. Never forget it, anyway, Taffy and reunions ’cause you don’t forget Former Child Migrant things like that. The sense of place often remains Ken very important to people who were Former state ward … I thought, now there must be others around somewhere. in Homes, irrespective of individual experiences and memories; the sight So I put an ad in the paper, and got to meet a lot of the and sense of the institutions they lived ladies. And it was lovely. And the first day we ever met out at in as children is part of their identity. Northgate, and we were all sitting there having lunch. But when we first all got there we just all stood there cuddling and crying While some interviewees never want to revisit institutions, others need and kissing … It was lovely, lovely getting in touch with them all. to do so, or talk of the memories Yeah, I organise all that … triggered by visits. A few interviewees Joy are formally associated with children’s Forgotten Australian institutions as board members or fundraisers. Some organise reunions, maintain networks and foster a sense of community among those I couldn’t get over the way I had lost touch with who left the Homes. Some are that the cemetery [for the the group that I now call my members of support organisations, or Home] was in a shocking friends for about 20 years, have established their own support Deborah Findlay state. It had been neglected: at the ballarat orphanage 21 years, something like that. networks; others do not want to just like we were neglected be part of any group. Some are gravesite memorial. I caught up with many in 1986 Forgotten Australian as kids. It haunted me, involved in preserving the buildings when they had a big reunion you know. The wind was or interpreting and telling the stories at the Ballarat Orphanage, blowing and the bird life associated with children’s Homes; establishing Facebook pages, blogs and stayed in contact with in fighting proposed demolition of old and websites about the institutions. was lovely. But [it] looked particular my friend Vicky. And buildings, insisting that past history is Others conduct open days at former unkempt. I thought: ‘These today we still catch up and talk recognised in any re-use of buildings, Homes, have picnics and social poor kids. Lonely in life, on the phone quite a bit. As I do or working to build small museums gatherings; encourage the recording lonely in death’. displaying salvaged artefacts. of memoirs and reminiscences; collect with several others. Some ‘Homies’, as many describe and archive documents and historical Tony Former Child Migrant, Phyllis themselves, are active in social media, records, or maintain a contact register. western australia former care leaver

40 41 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

after the PROJECT

I am in awe of the resilience, inner I was left with an overwhelming sense of strength and positive outlook of every one of pathos. I realised how sheltered my own life has the people I interviewed—who included child been, and just how vulnerable children are—and all migrants from the UK, and children whose parents ‘done for the best’. Somehow in the midst of tragedy could not care for them. I also interviewed people there are survivors. The survivors are remarkable, and involved in policy development and service provision their stories extraordinary: some great successes, within the child protection service sector. Each had and some incredibly brilliant people. But there’s the a unique story about their struggle to survive in the dominant, recurring theme of childhood separation, face of enormous challenges in their lives. What hurt, and misunderstanding: a child’s perception of appears to have given them strength and courage a dismissive adult world. I can’t say I enjoyed the to continue was love from at least one significant experience, but I am very glad to have learned and person, and small acts of kindness that may have understood a little of it. It made me think about how come from most unexpected places. we as a society have still not got it right. Christine Choo Rob Linn interviewer interviewer

42 43 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

Having been interviewed, I feel like I have been able to participate in a composite which is larger than just my own story and those of the others told. I wanted to be a voice for those without, some of which never got to live through their terrors to come out the other side, unlike the opportunity Thankfully the voices of care-leavers which I myself have had. It makes me feel sad to around Australia will have a permanent place in think that I should be grateful to have survived. the National Library. It is important that our voices Sometimes life itself is the reward, and the struggle are heard, in order for our children and the families to survive the necessary journey. My journey has we have created to understand what we endured as been a struggle to survive within the system almost children. Our stories have a real place in Australian half a century later, but this time as a professionally history. By listening to our stories people will have employed social worker in child protection, who has a better understanding of us and our experiences. a unique perspective from lived experience which To those who haven’t shared their story, please isn’t always welcomed by the ruling bureaucracy. don’t take it to the coffin. Tell yourself the story I’m no longer the child, but rather the protective first and then it will be easier to share with others. adult. Telling my story gives me the opportunity to Be proud that you survived to tell it. reflect on a system which I am not always convinced leonie Sheedy (in spite of its many advancements since my own victorian state ward earlier childhood experiences) has fully committed itself to the learnings of the past and confining the abuse to the time-vault where it belongs. David Jackson Forgotten Australian

44 45 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project finding oral history interviews

You can listen to these interviews in select: audio in the Add Limits box in have chosen to be asked before your home, in your local library, or any search you do. people use their interviews. In this in the National Library of Australia; case click on the tag at the bottom Many recordings are available online. anywhere you have online access. of the catalogue results page which Selecting the: Listen Online button For example, if you enter the project shows: Get This. Then select either: on the catalogue record will take title: Forgotten Australians and Former in the Library or Order a Copy. you to a permission form. To protect Child Migrants Oral History Project Ordering a copy enables you to have against misuse, you must accept the into a search engine like Google a copy of the interview sent to your conditions specified before you can the results will take you to a Library chosen address, only after we get listen to the interview. Almost all the webpage that describes the project. permission from the interviewee. project interviews have a summary This page will also provide other links and some have time linked transcripts If you need further help locating items to the project and the interviews. which allow you to search for subjects in the Library’s collection you can To get more specific information and keywords in each interview. Click telephone the Library during business use the Library’s catalogue http:// on the highlighted word or phrase to hours on +61 (02) 6262 1266 or go catalogue.nla.gov.au. Enter either the hear the interviewee talk about that to: Ask A Librarian www.nla.gov.au/ project title Forgotten Australians and particular subject. You can also search askalibrarian to submit a question Former Child Migrants Oral History for information in each interview. online. Project or the project call number If you would like to search in the ORAL TRC 6200 into the search box available summaries or transcripts in to get a list of all the interviews. the collection, then Trove http://trove. nla.gov.au/ is the best place to begin To find a particular interview, or your search. information about a specific place or subject, type the name of the place, Interviews are only online when individual or subject in the catalogue interviewees have given their search box. If you want to restrict the permission. Some interviews are only results to the Oral History Collection, available on request as interviewees

46 47 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

Janet Camilleri interviewed by Val Donovan on Phyllis Exell interviewed by Jill Barnard on 20 and Betty Jensen interviewed by Carolyn Rasmussen interviews 1 July 2011, TRC6200/68, http://catalogue.nla.gov. 28 February 2012, TRC6200/124, http://catalogue. on 24 February 2011, TRC6200/50, http:// au/Record/5383898 nla.gov.au/Record/5813872 catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5099996 quoted in Patricia Carlson interviewed by Susan Marsden Vera Fooks interviewed by Susan Marsden on George Jones interviewed by Rob Linn on on 29 September 2010, TRC6200/23, http:// 19 February 2010, TRC6200/5, http://catalogue. 19 September 2011, TRC6200/94, http:// this booklet catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/4977985 nla.gov.au/Record/4776778 catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5720326 Caroline Carroll interviewed by Karen George Denis Golding interviewed by Roslyn Burge on 23 Natalia Josephs interviewed by John Bannister on Allan Allaway interviewed by Rob Willis on on 28 and 30 June, 23 and 24 August, 2010, August 2011, TRC6200/82, http://catalogue.nla. 26 August and 2 September 2010, TRC6200/21, 9 August 2010, TRC6200/17, http://catalogue.nla. TRC6200/14, http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/ gov.au/Record/5632016 http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/4973512 gov.au/Record/4972234 Record/4933691 Frank Golding interviewed by Rob Linn on 15 and Robert Kain interviewed by Jennifer Barrkman on Mark Anderson interviewed by Rob Willis on Yoonthalla Close interviewed by Anne Monsour on 16 June 2010, TRC6200/12, http://catalogue.nla. 14 March 2012, TRC6200/141, http://catalogue. 30 June 2012, TRC6200/188, http://catalogue.nla. 5 July 2011, TRC6200/71, http://catalogue.nla.gov. gov.au/Record/4904718 nla.gov.au/Record/5883420 gov.au/Record/6058194 au/Record/5481502 Maria Harries interviewed by Christine Choo on Kathleen Kelly interviewed by Madonna Grehan on Mavis Appleyard interviewed by Virginia Macleod Oliver Cosgrove interviewed by Christine Choo on 23 and 28 November 2011, TRC6200/107, http:// 19 and 21 September 2011, TRC6200/87, http:// on 15 and 16 October 2010, TRC6200/26, http:// 2, 3 and 9 February 2012, TRC6200/126, http:// catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5755518 catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5717375 catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/4980278 catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5814286 Michael Harvey interviewed by Caroline Evans on Michael Kennedy interviewed by Ann-Mari Jordens Clem Apted interviewed by Hamish Sewell on Tony Costa interviewed by Rob Willis on 11 May 11 May 2012, TRC6200/155, http://catalogue.nla. on 19 May 2011, TRC6200/59, http://catalogue. 11 July 2011, TRC6200/73, http://catalogue.nla. 2010, TRC6200/13, http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/ gov.au/Record/5974789 nla.gov.au/Record/5213804 gov.au/Record/5481512 Record/4925919 Denis Hayden interviewed by Criena Fitzgerald on Brett Kersten interviewed by Lesley Alves on Ronald Arthur interviewed by Jeannine Baker Maurice Crawford-Raby interviewed by Rob Willis 7, 8, 18 and 21 June, 4 and 23 July and 24 August 8 February 2011, TRC6200/43, http://catalogue. on 8 and 25 August, and 8 September 2011, on 12 August 2010, TRC6200/18, http://catalogue. 2011, TRC6200/83, http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/ nla.gov.au/Record/5058488 TRC6200/85, http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/ nla.gov.au/Record/4972242 Record/5713015 Patricia Kirby interviewed by Rob Willis on 22 June Record/5717091 Keith Day interviewed by Rob Willis on 19 May Barbara Henderson interviewed by Virginia 2011, TRC6200/76, http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/ David Bartlett interviewed by Caroline Evans on 2012, TRC6200/180, http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/ Macleod on 5 September 2011, TRC6200/88, Record/5547750 22 and 24 June 2011, TRC6200/4, http:// Record/6038833 http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5717501 Ivor Knight interviewed by Christine Choo on catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5366842 Ralph Doughty interviewed by Hamish Sewell on Sue Henthorn interviewed by Criena Fitzgerald 14, 21 and 28 June 2011, TRC6200/67, http:// Leslie Batchelor interviewed by Caroline Evans on 10 July 2011, TRC6200/72, http://catalogue.nla. on 2 and 16 February 2011, TRC6200/49, http:// catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5383893 7 February 2012, TRC6200/121, http://catalogue. gov.au/Record/5481503 catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5099894 Pam Liddell interviewed by Anne Monsour on nla.gov.au/Record/5808118 David Dowling interviewed by Anne Monsour on Tony Holmes interviewed by Hamish Sewell on 12 July 2011, TRC6200/75, http://catalogue.nla. Peter Bidwell interviewed by Virginia Macleod 26 October 2011, TRC6200/98, http://catalogue. 21 December 2010, TRC6200/35, http://catalogue. gov.au/Record/5481563 on 19 September 2011, TRC6200/90, http:// nla.gov.au/Record/5741660 nla.gov.au/Record/5037286 Allan Luchetta interviewed by Carolyn Rasmussen catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5717504 Phileppa Doyle interviewed by Virginia Macleod Laurie Humphreys interviewed by Bill Bunbury on on 20 October 2010, TRC6200/28, http:// Ruth Blackman interviewed by Ann-Mari Jordens on 25 and 26 August 2012, TRC6200/149, http:// 28 July 2010, TRC6200/15, http://catalogue.nla. catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/4982664 on 31 July 2012, TRC6200/179, http://catalogue. catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5970099 gov.au/Record/4936139 James Luthy interviewed by Hamish Sewell on nla.gov.au/Record/6038817 Robert Elrington interviewed by Rob Linn on David Jackson interviewed by Susan Marsden 4 July 2011, TRC6200/70, http://catalogue.nla.gov. Mary Brownlee interviewed by Virginia Macleod 15 and 28 February and 20 March 2012, on 12 September 2010, TRC6200/120, http:// au/Record/5481493 on 2 and 6 February 2012, TRC6200/118, http:// TRC6200/132, http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/ catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/4977445 Bert McGregor interviewed by Caroline Evans on catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5786082 Record/5815357 Donella Jaggs interviewed by Jill Barnard on 1 October 2010, TRC6200/24, http://catalogue.nla. Dilys Budd interviewed by Ann-Mari Jordens on Winsome Evans interviewed by Joanna Penglase 20 January and 18 February 2011, TRC6200/45, gov.au/Record/4978017 9 March 2010, TRC6200/7, http://catalogue.nla. on 23 and 25 January and 21 March 2012, http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5079534 Ken Merton interviewed by Lesley Alves on gov.au/Record/4783880 TRC6200/119, http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/ 28 October 2011, TRC6200/102, http://catalogue. Record/5808291 nla.gov.au/Record/5747421

48 49 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project references

Deidre Michell interviewed by Alison McDougall Graham Rundle interviewed by Rob Willis on Forgotten Australians: Supporting survivors of Cashmore, J, Dolby, R, and D Brennan (1994). on 6 and 20 March 2011, TRC6200/54, http:// 20 April 2012, TRC6200/158, http://catalogue.nla. childhood institutional care in Australia, Alliance Systems abuse: problems and solutions. NSW catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5152249 gov.au/Record/5974806 for Forgotten Australians, 2008. Website: www. Child Protection Council. Neil Morrison interviewed by Rob Linn on Angela Sdrinis interviewed by Sue Taffe on forgottenaustralians.org.au/pdf/MiniAfaBooklet.pdf Wood, J. (2008). Report of the Special 25 August 2011, TRC6200/92, http://catalogue.nla. 7 February 2012, TRC6200/120, http://catalogue. commission of inquiry into child protection Senate Inquiries gov.au/Record/5720307 nla.gov.au/Record/5808168 services in NSW. State of New South Wales. The Senate Community Affairs References Barbara Murray interviewed by Virginia Macleod Joe Shaw interviewed by Hamish Sewell on Committee (2001). Lost innocents: righting the Victoria on 30 and 31 May 2012, TRC6200/161, http:// 23 February 2011, TRC6200/51, http://catalogue. record. Report on child migration. http://trove.nla.gov. Fogarty, J.F. & Sargeant, D (1990). Review of the catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5979640 nla.gov.au/Record/5100666 au/work/24368083?q&sort=holdings+desc&_=134 redevelopment of protective services for children John O’May interviewed by Rob Willis on Leonie Sheedy interviewed by Daniel Connell on 8217068347&versionId=44576536 in Victoria. Victorian Family & Children’s Services 24 August 2011, TRC6200/91, http://catalogue.nla. 30 July 2010, TRC6200/16, http://catalogue.nla. Council, Standing Committee on Child Protection. The Senate Community Affairs References gov.au/Record/5720294 gov.au/Record/4937455 Committee (2004). Forgotten Australians: a report Inquiry panel report to the Minister for Community John Padfield interviewed by Sarah Rood on Joy Stewart interviewed by Caroline Evans on on Australians who experienced institutional Services (2012). Protecting Victoria’s vulnerable 2 and 16 November 2011, TRC6200/116, http:// 18 April 2012, TRC6200/145, http://catalogue.nla. or out-of-home care as children. www.aph. children. catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5786034 gov.au/Record/5917613 gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/ South Australia Joanna Penglase interviewed by Susan Marsden Victoria Stuart interviewed by Rob Willis on Senate_Committees?url=clac_ctte/completed_ Department of Family and Community Services on 2 June 2010, TRC6200/11, http://catalogue.nla. 15 October 2011, TRC6200/105, http://catalogue. inquiries/2004-07/inst_care/report/index.htm (1995). Breach of duty: a new paradigm for the gov.au/Record/4901590 nla.gov.au/Record/5751943 The Senate Community Affairs References abuse of children and adolescents in care. David Plowman interviewed by John Bannister on Doug Sunderland interviewed by Madonna Grehan Committee (2005). Protecting vulnerable children: a Commission of inquiry (2008). Children in state 18 February 2010, TRC6200/8, http://catalogue. on 24 and 25 May 2011, TRC6200/63, http:// national challenge. Second report on the inquiry into care Commission of inquiry report : allegations nla.gov.au/Record/4803220 catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5299989 children in institutional or out-of-home care. www. of sexual abuse and death from criminal conduct Hazel Porter interviewed by Rob Willis on 17 May Carol Taylor interviewed by Rob Willis on 27 June aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/ (the Mullighan Report) 2012, TRC6200/182, http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/ 2011, TRC6200/79, http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/ Senate_Committees?url=clac_ctte/completed_ Western Australia Record/6038849 Record/5547793 inquiries/2004-07/inst_care/report2/index.htm Department of Community Welfare (1981). The Senate Community Affairs References Ken Pound interviewed by Gwenda Davey Bob Taylor interviewed by Rob Willis on 27 June Children in limbo: an investigation into the Committee (2009). Lost Innocents and Forgotten on 29 November, 3 and 13 December 2010, 2011, TRC6200/78, http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/ circumstances and needs of children in long term Australians Revisited. Report on the progress with TRC6200/39, http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/ Record/5547791 care in Western Australia. the implementation of the recommendations of the Record/5039271 Michelle Rose Turnbull interviewed by Anne Lost Innocents and Forgotten Australians Reports. Tasmania Wilfred Prince interviewed by Rob Willis on Monsour on 23, 25 and 26 February 2011, Legislative Council Select Committee on Child 26 August 2011, TRC6200/93, http://catalogue.nla. TRC6200/46, http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/ OTHER government inquiries, and Youth Deprivation (1984). Child and youth gov.au/Record/5720317 Record/5099311 reports and position papers deprivation report. Jean Pringle interviewed by Carolyn Rasmussen on Annie White interviewed by Lesley Alves on regarding children in care Tasmanian Ombudsman (2004). Listen to the 9 November 2011, TRC6200/103, http://catalogue. 14 December 2011, TRC6200/111, http:// children: review of claims of abuse from adults in nla.gov.au/Record/5747429 catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5758689 Commonwealth Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission state care as children. Ray Prosser interviewed by Madonna Grehan on Marie Wood interviewed by Ann-Mari Jordens on (1997). Bringing them home: report of the national 8 and 9 May 2012, TRC6200/154, http:// 13 May 2010, TRC6200/10, http://catalogue.nla. Queensland inquiry into the separation of Aboriginal and Torres catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/5974786 gov.au/Record/4840528 The report of the Commission of inquiry into Strait Islander children from their families. www. abuse of children in Queensland institutions Derrick ‘Taffy’ Rees interviewed by Roslyn Burge on Tony Young interviewed by Caroline Evans on hreoc.gov.au/social_justice/bth_report/index.html (the Forde Inquiry) (1999) 16 December 2010, TRC6200/36, http://catalogue. 18 February 2011, TRC6200/48, http://catalogue. nla.gov.au/Record/5037322 nla.gov.au/Record/5099580 New South Wales Crime and Misconduct Commission Queensland Department of Community Services (1992). (2004). Protecting children: an inquiry into abuse Michael Ross interviewed by Susan Marsden on A report to the Minister for Health and Community of children in foster care. 13 October 2011, TRC6200/97, http://catalogue. Services from the committee established to review nla.gov.au/Record/5740139 substitute care services in NSW.

50 51 Forgotten Australians & Former Child Migrants oral history project

COLLECTING OTHER MATERIAL

Many Forgotten Australians and to the Forgotten Australians and Former Child Migrants have Former Child Migrants Oral History written or published memoirs and Project manuscript collection, autobiographies. The National Library reference number MS 10115. collects these books to ensure they are preserved and available for use, now and in the future. Any such works received by the Library will be catalogued and can be located and discovered via the Library’s catalogue and online. Legal deposit, a requirement under the Copyright Act 1968, requires publishers including self-publishing authors to deposit a copy of any print work published in Australia with the National Library and the state library in your home state. Further information about legal deposit and where to send works is available at www.nla.gov.au/ legal-deposit Michael Snell Some Forgotten Australians, Former holding his diary Child Migrants and others involved in Former Child Migrant the care system have donated their papers, photographs and ephemera

Joe Shaw Forgotten Australian

52 53 Front cover: (alphabetical order by surname) Ruth Blackman, Caroline Carroll, Frank Golding, Harold Haig, Gaye Hollins, Laurie Humpreys, David Jackson, John O’May This project aimed to provide social justice. We have built a mosaic of memories that reveal the many and varied ways in which people have been affected by the child welfare systems. Through including many different voices and perspectives, we hope that this project will become part of a broader national healing through understanding, in similar ways to the reconciliation movement. Joanna Sassoon Project Manager Forgotten Australians and Former Child Migrants Oral History Project