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(Translation) Minutes of the 3rd Meeting of Housing, Planning and Lands Committee the 6th Term Kwun Tong District Council Date: 21 May 2020 (Thursday) Time: 9:34 a.m. – 3:42 p.m. Venue: Conference Room, Kwun Tong District Office, Unit 05-07, 20/F Millennium City 6, 392 Kwun Tong Road, Kwun Tong, Kowloon Present Arrival Time Leaving Time Mr CHENG Keng-ieong (Chairman) 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr FUNG Ka-lung (Vice-chairman) 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr BUX Sheik Anthony 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr CHAN Chris Ka-yin 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr CHAN Man-kin 9:44 a.m. 1:05 p.m. Mr CHAN Yik-shun Eason 9:38 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr CHAN Yiu-hung, Jimmy 9:34 a.m. 11:07 a.m. Mr CHEUNG Man-fung 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr CHEUNG Pui-kong 9:38 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr CHOY Chak-hung 9:58 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Ms FU Pik-chun 9:42 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr HSU Yau-wai 9:38 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr HUNG Chun-hin 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr IP Tsz-kit 9:38 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr KAN Ming-tung, MH 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr KUNG Chun-ki 10:41 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Ms LAI Po-kwai 10:46 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr LAM Wai 9:43 a.m. 1:05 p.m. Mr LEE Kwan-chak 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Ms LEUNG Jannelle Rosalynne 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr LEUNG Tang-fung 11:15 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Ms LEUNG Yik-ting Edith 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr LI Ka-tat 9:34 a.m. 1:05 p.m. Mr LI Wai-lam William 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Ms LI Wing-shan 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr LUI Tung-hai, MH 9:34 a.m. 1:05 p.m. Mr NGAN Man-yu 2:30 p.m. 3:42 p.m. 1 Mr PANG Chi-sang 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr SO Koon-chung Kevin 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr TAM Siu-cheuk 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr TANG Wai-man Raymond 9:39 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Ms TSE Suk-chun 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr WAN Ka-him 9:49 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr WANG Wai-lun 9:46 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Mr WONG Chi-ken 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m Ms WONG Ka-ying 9:34 a.m. 3:42 p.m. Miss WONG Ching-yi, May (Secretary) Executive Officer (District Council)(3) Kwun Tong District Office In Attendance Miss CHOI Gi-lam, Britney Assistant District Officer (Kwun Tong)1 Mr KO Chor-que, Keith Acting Senior Executive Officer (District Council), Kwun Tong District Office Miss TAM Yuen-shan, Dilys Senior Housing Manager/Kowloon East 1, Housing Department Ms KWAN Ka-pui, Jessie Senior Town Planner/Kowloon 5, Planning Department Miss LAM Sau-wai, Jade Estate Surveyor/Kai Tak Airport (District Lands Office, Kowloon East), Lands Department Mr LAI Chi-ming Principal Estate Officer/Kwun Tong (District Lands Office, Kowloon East), Lands Department In Attendance Mr WONG Chi-kwong, Tony, JP Deputy Government Chief Information Officer, Item I Office of the Government Chief Information Officer Mr WONG King-man, Kingsley Assistant Government Chief Information Officer (Industry Development), Office of the Government Chief Information Officer Mr TANG Kin-hing, Dantes Senior Systems Manager (Smart City)2, Office of the Government Chief Information Officer Mr IP Kwok-leung, Nelson Chief Engineer/Lighting, Highways Department 2 Mr WONG Kuo-yang, Edwin Deputy Head of Energizing Kowloon East Office, Item II Energizing Kowloon East Office Ms CHEUK Yuk-ming, Carol Senior Place Making Manager (Planning), Energizing Kowloon East Office Ms Carol HUI Director, Urban Planning, AECOM Ms Yoko CHEUNG Associate Director, Urban Planning, AECOM Mr Myron NG Assistant General Manager - Community Relations, Item III Link Asset Management Limited Mr Nick YIU Senior Manager - Community Relations, Link Asset Management Limited Mr Leo LEUNG Officer - Community Relations, Link Asset Management Limited Ms LUK Lai-fun, Katherine Architect 52, Item IV-V Housing Department Absent Mr MOK Kin-shing Mr WONG Kai-ming Mr OR Chong-shing Wilson, MH Opening Remarks The Chairman welcomed the attendees to the third meeting of the Housing, Planning and Lands Committee (“HPLC”) under the 6th Term Kwun Tong District Council (“KTDC”). Item I – Pilot Multi-functional Smart Lampposts Scheme (KTDC HPLC Paper No. 13/2020) 2. The Chairman said that the Secretariat had received a letter from Mr CHOY Chak-hung, Mr LI Ka-tat and Ms Rosalynne LEUNG about multi-functional smart lampposts. Members could refer to the letter tabled. 3. Ms Rosalynne LEUNG presented the paper. 3 4. The Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (“OGCIO”) presented the paper. It also explained and introduced various devices inside and applications of smart lampposts to Members. OGCIO also addressed Members’ concern expressed in the letter over thermal imagers, information obtained by smart devices and data processing. 5. Members raised views and enquiries as follows: 5.1 Mr CHAN Man-kin appreciated the OCGIO’s showing devices and applications of smart lampposts. He asked: (i) how the data collected would be managed and used; (ii) if an independent Smart Lampposts Technical Advisory Ad Hoc Committee (“SLTAAHC”) with statutory power would be established and comprising members who were representatives elected by members of the public or recognised by international human rights organisations; and (iii) how SLTAAHC would give confidence to members of the public because its members might be replaced by someone else anytime. In addition, he stated clearly that he would not support the use of smart lampposts under the circumstances that the data could not be monitored effectively, members of the public had not been informed clearly if the data would be abused, and the Government had not mended its relationship with the public. Yet, he opined that OGCIO should continue its studies and implement the use of that technology after the relationship between the Government and the public was mended. He suggested SLTAAHC conduct consultations through district councils so that the public could learn about the current situation of smart lampposts and reflect their concern and worries. 5.2 Mr CHEUNG Man-fung understood that technology needed advancement. Besides, smart city development might also be a future trend. Yet, he believed that it was not a suitable time to implement the Pilot Multi-functional Smart Lampposts Scheme (“Pilot Scheme”). The reasons were as follows: (i) the public sense of distrust towards the Government had been growing regarding the Government’s collection of data; (ii) the Member was worried that if the Pilot Scheme was endorsed at KTDC, the lampposts could not be removed even if opposition arose in the future; and (iii) even though smart lampposts did not collect real-time data, and only collected relatively low resolution images, the Member was worried that the lampposts could still submit the data, complemented by other cameras in the surroundings, to the Government or departments for other purposes. 4 He reiterated that under the present circumstances of the lack of trust between the public and the Government, he could not accept the existence of such a kind of surveillance lampposts. 5.3 Ms WONG Ka-ying agreed that technology and a city needed advancement. However, there were still many problems with smart lampposts, including: (i) the Personal Data (Privacy) Ordinance had been established in 1996, but the law lagged behind advancement of times and could not protect the public; (ii) the public were diffident in the Government and suppliers of smart lamppost devices because mainland suppliers’ leakage of information often happened; (iii) the Member doubted that the thermal imaging technology would not only be used for calculating traffic flows, but also surveilling pedestrians’ activities; and (iv) the Member doubted that the 5G technology had weak penetrating power, and could not penetrate walls easily. Besides, there were many tall buildings in Hong Kong, which meant that upgrading the 4G technology to 5G would not make a big difference in the use of the network. Moreover, it might be very costly to construct 5G infrastructure. In addition, she also asked: (i) which departments could have access to the data collected; (ii) if the data collected would be destroyed, how that would be done; (iii) about coverages of 5G and 4G base stations; and (iv) in view of development of the 4G and 5G technologies, how big the deviation between the estimated cost for operating the 5G network in the future and the current cost would be. 5.4 Mr Chris CHAN said that KTDC had earlier voiced its objection against the Pilot Scheme. He wondered if the Government would continue to implement it. He asked: (i) if OGCIO could ensure smart lampposts would not install cameras that were exposed to the outside. If it breached its promise, who would be held accountable; (ii) apart from the exhibition and roadshows, what other public consultation approaches were available; (iii) organisations participating in examination of the Pilot Scheme and the timetable; (iv) if thermal imagers would be used for calculating flows of people; and (v) if it was necessary to use Bluetooth signal senders to serve the positioning purpose, and he doubted the use of those senders because the public might be connected to those senders without being aware of that.

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