PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 5 – LEGAL AFFAIRS Thursday 12 September 2019 Examination of proposed expenditure for the portfolio area SPORT, MULTICULTURALISM, SENIORS AND VETERANS UNCORRECTED The Committee met at 9:30 MEMBERS The Hon. Robert Borsak (Chair) The Hon. Niall Blair The Hon. Rose Jackson The Hon. Taylor Martin The Hon. Shaoquett Moselmane The Hon. Walt Secord The Hon. Penny Sharpe Mr David Shoebridge (Deputy Chair) The Hon. Natalie Ward PRESENT The Hon. John Sidoti, Minister for Sport, Multiculturalism, Seniors and Veterans CORRECTIONS TO TRANSCRIPT OF COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS Corrections should be marked on a photocopy of the proof and forwarded to: Budget Estimates secretariat Room 812 Parliament House Macquarie Street SYDNEY NSW 2000 Thursday, 12 September 2019 Legislative Council Page 1 The CHAIR: Welcome to the public hearing for the inquiry into budget estimates 2019-2020. Before I commence I would like to acknowledge the Gadigal people, who are the traditional custodians of this land. I would also like to pay respect to elders past and present of the Eora nation and extend that respect to other Aboriginals present. I welcome Minister John Sidoti and accompanying officials to this hearing. Today the Committee will examine the proposed expenditure for the portfolio of Sport, Multiculturalism, Seniors and Veterans. Today's hearing is open to the public and is being broadcast live via the Parliament's website. In accordance with the broadcasting guidelines, while members of the media may film or record Committee members and witnesses, people in the public gallery should not be the primary focus of any filming or photography. I would also remind media representatives that they must take responsibility for what they publish about the Committee's proceedings. The guidelines for the broadcast of proceedings are available from the Secretariat. All witnesses in budget estimates have the right to procedural fairness according to the procedural fairness resolution adopted by the House in 2018. There may be some questions that a witness could answer if only they had more time or with certain documents to hand. In those circumstances witnesses are advised that they can take a question on notice and provide an answer within 21 days. Any messages from advisers or members of staff seated in the public gallery should be delivered through the Committee secretariat. Minister, I remind you and the officers accompanying you that you are free to pass notes and to refer directly to your advisers seated at the table behind you. Transcripts of this hearing will be available on the web from tomorrow morning. Finally, would everyone please turn their mobile phones to silent for the duration of the hearing. All witnesses from departments, statutory bodies or corporations will be sworn prior to giving evidence. Minister, I remind you that you do not need to be sworn as you have already sworn your oath of office as a member of Parliament. PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 5 - LEGAL AFFAIRS UNCORRECTED Thursday, 12 September 2019 Legislative Council Page 2 MICHAEL COUTTS-TROTTER, Secretary, Department of Communities and Justice, on former oath KAREN JONES, Acting Chief Executive Officer, Office of Sport, affirmed and examined JOSEPH LA POSTA, Chief Executive Officer, Multicultural NSW, sworn and examined CAROLINE MACKANESS, Director, Office for Veterans Affairs, sworn and examined KERRIE MATHER, Chief Executive Officer , Sydney Cricket and Sports Ground Trust, sworn and examined SIMON DRAPER, Chief Executive Officer, Infrastructure NSW, affirmed and examined PAUL DOORN, Chief Executive Officer, Venues NSW, sworn and examined The CHAIR: I declare the proposed expenditure for the portfolio of Sport, Multiculturalism, Seniors and Veterans open for examination. The Hon. WALT SECORD: Is this your first budget estimates? Mr JOHN SIDOTI: It is my first budget estimates. The Hon. WALT SECORD: When did you become Minister? Mr JOHN SIDOTI: After being elected this year in March, after the elections. The Hon. WALT SECORD: In around April? Mr JOHN SIDOTI: Correct. The Hon. WALT SECORD: Since becoming a Minister and assuming responsibility for the various portfolios that you are being examined on today, did you fill out the appropriate declarations to the Premier and Cabinet, Parliament and any other body that you should file them with, involving your responsibilities as a Minister? Mr JOHN SIDOTI: I did. I comply with all my obligations. The Hon. WALT SECORD: Are you aware of a Ministerial Code of Conduct? Mr JOHN SIDOTI: I am aware of a Ministerial Code of Conduct. The Hon. WALT SECORD: Who does it apply to? Mr JOHN SIDOTI: I comply with that Ministerial Code of Conduct. The Hon. WALT SECORD: The word "Minister" also expands to parliamentary secretaries. Are you aware of that? Mr JOHN SIDOTI: I am. The Hon. WALT SECORD: When did you become a parliamentary secretary? The Hon. NIALL BLAIR: Point of order— The CHAIR: What is your point of order? The Hon. NIALL BLAIR: My point of order is that this budget estimates is to ask about the Minister's role as a Minister, not about parliamentary secretaries. If the Hon. Walt Secord wants to talk about parliamentary secretaries then he can ask them to come along. This is about the member's role as a Minister. I therefore ask that questions do not relate to anything other than his time as a Minister be ruled out of order. Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE: To the point of order: The Ministerial Code of Conduct, which the Minister is obliged to follow, not only requires him to disclose material now but also has a continuous disclosure obligation if there is any material in the past that he has failed to disclose, including in his time as a parliamentary secretary. He is bound by that Ministerial Code of Conduct by dint of being a Minister and clearly these questions are in order. The CHAIR: There is no point of order. Keep questioning. PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 5 - LEGAL AFFAIRS UNCORRECTED Thursday, 12 September 2019 Legislative Council Page 3 The Hon. WALT SECORD: The Hon. Niall Blair mentioned three times in his point of order the role of a Minister. My question goes directly to that. Niall, you said three times that questions have to relate to the Minister's role as a Minister. The Hon. NIALL BLAIR: Can I answer the questions now? Are you asking me questions? The Hon. NATALIE WARD: Point of order— The CHAIR: Order! I will place members on calls to order. I will hear the line questioning before I hear the point of order. The member has not even got the words out of his mouth yet. The Hon. PENNY SHARPE: There is no breach. He has not asked a question yet. The Hon. NATALIE WARD: It is not in relation to the question. The CHAIR: What is it in relation to? The Hon. NATALIE WARD: I ask that members treat each other with courtesy as we are obliged to do in the Chamber. That members address each other with courtesy and not direct comments to "Niall". The CHAIR: I did not hear that. The Hon. WALT SECORD: I said "the Hon. Niall Blair". The Hon. NATALIE WARD: No, you did not. You said "Niall". I ask for courtesy in our dealings with each other as is expected. The CHAIR: I uphold the point of order. The Hon. WALT SECORD: As referred to three times by the Hon. Niall Blair, questions should relate to the role of a Minister. Minister, I give you this opportunity: How do you reconcile your role as a Minister in the Government with being a property developer? Mr JOHN SIDOTI: No. I have met all my obligations, Mr Secord. The Hon. WALT SECORD: Your obligations involve— Mr JOHN SIDOTI: When you relate to property disclosures, I comply with my obligations. The Hon. WALT SECORD: Is this the answer we are going to be getting all day long: "I have complied with my obligations."? Mr JOHN SIDOTI: I am telling the truth and I comply with all my obligations. The Hon. WALT SECORD: Do you think that accepting a donation from a property developer is acceptable behaviour? Mr JOHN SIDOTI: As you would be aware, Mr Secord, political donations are a matter for the NSW Liberal Party. The Hon. WALT SECORD: How did you not know that this man was a property developer when you were in business with this man? Mr JOHN SIDOTI: I refer you to my previous answer: Political donations are a matter for the Liberal Party. The Hon. WALT SECORD: It was a fundraiser, hosted by you. I have seen footage of you performing, singing at the fundraiser. You say that you did not know that the man involved in this was a property developer when you had business interests with him? Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE: Property developer interests. Mr JOHN SIDOTI: What I am saying to you, Mr Secord, is that political donations are a matter for the NSW Liberal Party. The Hon. WALT SECORD: So you just invite anyone to your fundraiser, take the money and say that it is a matter for head office? Mr JOHN SIDOTI: I refer you back to my previous answer. PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 5 - LEGAL AFFAIRS UNCORRECTED Thursday, 12 September 2019 Legislative Council Page 4 The Hon. WALT SECORD: Minister, you have done quite well in the past few years. You have gone from being a fruit merchant to Parliament, to having a 10 per cent share in a $70 million project. You have done quite well in your property– The Hon. NIALL BLAIR: Point of order: This is nowhere near his portfolio. This is now a question about the Minister before he was even in Parliament. The Hon.