Spill the Beans by Tessa Bartholio, Aya Doslu, Kahlia Laszlo, Josephine Tov Tessa Hi there and welcome to our podcast on sustainable eating, called spill the beans. I'm Tessa and I am here today with. Kahlia Hi, I'm Kalia. Aya Hi, my name is Aya. Josephine And my name is Josephine. Josephine Alright, welcome everybody to our podcast. So firstly, we'll be talking about what is a -based diet and why people go plant based, the general pros and cons of eating plant based. And then we'll move into the food industry. Josephine So we'll talk about how food is produced and the cons of the food industry as well as the ecological impacts. And then we'll move into accessibility of food. And then we'll have a special guest come in, speak to us about their perspective. And then we'll wrap it up with mentioning our own design solutions for this issue. Tessa

- 1 - Hi, Josephine. I was wondering if you can answer what a plant-based diet exactly entails because I know there's some confusion about this topic. So hopefully, you can clarify things for us. Josephine Great question, Tessa. So plant-based eating focuses on foods derived primarily from plants. Most people assume that this means just and , which doesn't sound very sustainable for a whole healthy diet. Josephine But it also includes foods like nuts, seeds, oils, whole , and beans. plant based diets are not the same thing as going vegan or vegetarian. Rather, you're proportionately choosing more of your foods from plant sources. Kahlia Thanks, Josephine, for that definition of plant-based eating, now Can you touch upon why people choose to go plant based or not to go plant based? Josephine Yeah, I was actually just about to get into that. Now, you might be wondering why people would go plant based because it doesn't sound very appealing to just eating fruits and vegetables and like nuts and seeds and oils and whole grains, etc. But there's actually lots of health benefits of eating plant based like the support to your immune system. Josephine Plants are high in fiber, this can help reduce your inflammation, it can reduce your risk for certain diseases as well. Not to mention you have a reduced carbon footprint, and it saves animals and it's just better for the environment. And it's pretty easy to do, there's plenty of options

- 2 - everywhere you go today, lots of restaurants have a lot of plant-based substitutes or options for you. Josephine Now on the flip side, some people choose not to go plant based and that's okay too. Mainly, some of the cons of going plant based are that you can carry some risk of inadequate protein, vitamin and mineral intake. There are people who are iron deficient, so they would need to take supplements. This also carries the potential risk of a stroke. And eating plant based definitely requires you to be a little more like strategic and tedious with the food that you eat. Josephine You need to pay more attention to the meals that you order and probably have to cook a little bit more and prepare the meals for yourself at home. Because you don't always know like where you're going to be going if they're going to have options for you. Sometimes affordability and socio- economic status comes into play. People don't have the resources to buy all these healthy foods. And some people think that going vegan or plant based is just a trend. Aya So Josephine just talked about what a plant-based diet is. Now Tessa, what? Could you talk about the cons of the ? Tessa Yeah, Aya, so I will actually be diving into certain aspects of the cons provided by the meat industry like fossil fuels and energy consumption. Tessa

- 3 - And then Kalia will go deeper and go ahead and address other factors such as water and certain pesticides and GMOs as they contribute to the unsustainable meat industry. Tessa Okay, so I'm going to start off by just clarifying that fossil fuels are produced, even before the cattle was raised to until it's eaten. When we think about things like clearing of the land, that comes before the cattle is raised, and then comes operating slaughterhouses. Tessa And then transportation is most likely before and after, because you have to transport the cattle to the farm and then transport the meat to the store. Tessa So all of these things contribute significantly to fossil fuels. And while I was doing some research, I came across a pretty interesting statistic that personally helped me put everything into perspective. And I'm sure you guys can relate too. Tessa So here it goes. 40 pounds of are produced by the same amount of fossil fuels required to produce one pound of meat. >>> Oh, wow. Tessa

- 4 - Just think about that for a little. And I can repeat it. 40 pounds of soybeans are produced by the same amount of fossil fuels required to produce one pound of meat. Tessa So this just goes to show that the meat industry has been proven to be energy inefficient because of the quantity of fossil fuels required for its production. And so that's why it's our responsibility. >>> Oh, absolutely, Tessa it's our responsibility to be aware that the food we consume does affect the planet. Kahlia: Thank you, Tessa for that overview of fossil fuels and energy consumption in the meat industry. Kahlia Now I'll be talking about water usage. And the US agriculture actually accounts for 38% of the nation's freshwater usage, and approximately 80 to 90% of the nation's overall water usage. Kahlia So a lot of our water goes towards food, and a lot of that water goes specifically towards meat. For example, producing one kilogram of animal protein required about 100 times more water than a one kilogram of protein. Kahlia

- 5 - Now you have to take into account that this isn't just water that the livestock drinks. one kilogram of beef needs 13 kilograms of granny and 30 kilograms of hay. All this grain and hay requires thousands of liters of water. Kahlia So as you can see me meat-based diets require a whole lot of energy, land and water resources as a whole. In comparison, well it takes more than 2400 gallons of water to produce one pound of meat, it only takes 25 gallons of water to grow one pound of wheat. Kahlia So it takes more than 4000 gallons of water per day to produce food for a typical meat eater but only 300 gallons of water to produce food for a typical vegan. So as you can see, plant-based diets in general just require a lot less water and resources and that's why they're more sustainable. Kahlia Now the modern food production also incorporates a wide range of synthetic chemicals. Many, which has the potential to be very damaging to humans have exposed to them in high concentrations, or low concentrations over an extended period of time. The reason why people inject hormones into their young livestock is to make them gain weight faster. more weight means more meat, and more meat means more money for these farmers. Kahlia However, some hormones using cattle have been found to stimulate the growth of tumors and can also cause the cows to get infections. And pesticides are used to protect crops from insects, weeds and infections. But the residue they leave on some foods can then be eaten by people and can put people at risk for acute and chronic poisoning. Acute poisoning

- 6 - can cause nausea, cramps, diarrhea, dizziness, and increased anxiety, which can be very severe but is often reversible. Kahlia Chronic poisoning can cause respiratory problems memory disorders can condition depression, miscarriages, birth defects, cancer and neurological conditions. Doesn't that list sound like side effects to some prescription medicine? Kahlia Now, why would farmers use these hormones and pesticides and such if they're so bad? Well, farmers use them because they think that these things will save them money in the long run, but they often overlook the real cost the health of people and their environment. Kahlia And this is why having alternatives is so important. Being able to consciously choose to eat less meat, and knowing where your food comes from, and if it's organic, or what was being used in them. But not everyone has access to these things. And that's a problem. Aya So talking about accessibility, in the last few years, we've been seeing a rise in plant-based alternatives for people wishing to have a plant-based diet. With all these options and fake meat options on the market. Aya Are these substitutions accessible to everyone? Not necessarily in certain Areas there's what's called food deserts, which are typically in lower income areas that don't have immediate access to grocery stores nearby, or grocery stores that would even carry a lot of plant-based alternatives.

- 7 - Aya According to do something.org did some research about 23 point 5 million people live in food deserts. Nearly half of these people who live in food deserts are also low income or below the poverty line. Why is this an issue? The criteria for what is called a food desert means that people live more than one mile from the supermarket in urban or suburban areas and more than 10 miles from a supermarket and rural areas. Aya You also have to put in consideration that if you are lower income or below the poverty line in a food desert, you need a car to get to the nearest grocery store, and having a vehicle to get you there is not always a given for many people. Aya So lacking transportation and close access to fresh produce at a grocery store can contribute to people eating on healthier options like junk food or fast food because it is the cheapest and closest. Which leads us into the fact that people living in the poorest social economic status have 2.5 times the exposure to fast food restaurants as those living in the wealthiest areas. Aya With plant-based substitutions on the rise, there are some fast-food places like Burger King that now offers the impossible Whopper which is a 100% plant-based meat substitute. And I've tried it and it's really good. Aya This offers accessibility to those who may only have access to mainly fast- food places who would like to practice a more plant-based diet. Bringing plant-based alternatives into the fast-food industry isn't a fix all solution to

- 8 - fresh produce accessibility and food deserts. But it is certainly a start to seeing more plant-based foods widely seen and getting traction in the mainstream media. Aya (music playing) Aya Next up special surprise. We have some wonderful friends of ours answering the question why they chose to go plant base. All these people have a plant-based diet to varying degrees. And we asked the question and the reasons why they chose to eat a plant-based diet. So without further ado, please enjoy the interviews. (music playing) Mel Hi, my name is Mel. So I've been vegan for about a year and a half, almost two years in January. But the reason I went vegan is because I was never comfortable with consuming any animal products. I never liked the idea of killing animals or exploiting them. Mel And there's so many intersections to it as well, like environment and workers’ rights that a lot of vegans certainly care about. And I was just never happy consuming animal products at all. And I think I'd become a lot happier because of it. Gabby Hi, my name is Gabby. I went plant based in 2014 partly at the time for . But now I've kind of come to embrace the environmental impact the positive environmental impact that it has. Gabby

- 9 - I also grew up with a vegetarian mom so that made it a lot easier for me. Cassidy Cassidy macadam, I went vegetarian when I was five years old, because I didn't like the way I was see animals being treated. And then as I got older, I actually learned how they were being treated and had more of a reason-- like a knowledge factor of it. And I like I mentally feel that I don't eat meat, and that I'm not contributing to like greenhouse gases and land consumption and pollution and stuff like that. >>> I went vegetarian pescatarian around two years ago, because my boyfriend did it. And I wanted to see if I could do it also. And yet, I just kept doing it because I realized that it has a lot of environmental positive effects and ripple effects of other people also going vegetarian. victor My name is Victor Castro. I became vegetarian for just three months in 1987, Because that day, my son was born, and I decided to do this because that was a way to honor his future. We know that meat production is one of the drivers of climate change. And for me was the best option to tell him that I love him. >>> So it's been about four years since my mom asked me if I wanted to try going vegan with her after she had watched the Netflix documentary called "what the health." >>> And I told her Sure, so ever since then I've been kind of on and off diets. But for the past year and a half ish, I've been pretty consistent about

- 10 - staying on a plant-based diet, I just find that my body feels better, like I feel more energized. And I just feel more clean. >>> Overall, I guess you would say, especially since cutting out , because I'm kind of lactose intolerant anyways, so it kind of makes sense. >>> But after watching that documentary, and some other documentaries about the animal product food industry, I learned how much of an impact it has on the environment as well. And after a while of being on this plant- based diet, you kind of stop feeling the need to eat animal products anyways. >>> And I think as a result of that, it kind of makes more sense to me morally, that I'm eating the soy now, because before it just didn't seem right for me to claim that I care about animals and that I respect animals and then for me to just go ahead anyways and eat the animal products. >>> So now I guess I feel a bit more content morally with staying consistent with a plant-based diet. However, I know that it's not realistic for many people to or to eat a plant based diet just due to their health or due to the time commitment that it requires like starting out, eating a plant based diet can be difficult, because you're trying to look for recipes that are going to help you make meals that you're genuinely going to enjoy. You know, you don't want to just eat salads all the time with a bunch of random vegetables thrown into it, you know, you want to have something more tasty than that. >>>

- 11 - So actually going out to the grocery store and finding foods that you can use creatively in the kitchen to make really good meals can definitely be a time commitment thought that not everyone can commit to. Aya That was so cute. Thank you again to our friends who decided to help us out and participate in this podcast. Again, this isn't meant to make you feel bad for eating me or make you go plant based. This is just us getting input from our friends that we know are plant based and getting their reasons why they did it. Aya (music playing) And now we're going to have an interview with Les Goodman. Hi, I'm Les can tell us a little bit about what you do. Les The ironic question these days, what I do. So what I have done past 20 plus years is I've been a chef. I have my own businesses, I run restaurants, at a catering company farmer's market business. Most recently, I was running the food program for an independent High School up here in Sonoma County. And because of COVID, I am currently not working that job since schools have not reopened. So I'm freelancing here and consulting and just kind of seeing where things take me at the moment. Well, that sounds very interesting. Okay, jumping into our first question. What are the benefits of a plant-based diet? les The benefits of a plant-based diet. There can be many I am don't follow a plant-based diet.

- 12 - Kahlia Don't worry, right? Yeah. We're doing this podcast but none of us really follow a plant-based diet. So don't worry. Les At the end of the day. Some of the biggest benefits especially when it comes to say, beef production and not eating beef, there is a there is a sustainable aspect of it. When it comes down to carbon foot printing and with travel time and where things come from. Les The best example I can give you, not naming companies or anything of that and how the world is involved in food production is Chinese companies that are raising animals here in America. And then they're being shipped off to China for processing and then they come right back down. Les Like, and people don't really know about this. So when it comes to plant- based diet, you kind of help prevent any of that--the carbon footprint that it involves. Les You can grow your own produce. I mean, especially up here in Northern California, it's fairly easy. If you're in the city, you can get creative and how to go about doing it. partly why I've stayed up here in Sonoma County as long as I have, because I'm from Las Vegas originally, where growing up, I never saw grow. Les There was an orchard I know growing up and things like that, but we would go there on occasion, but I never really saw the vegetables grow.

- 13 - And I remember the first peach I had when I moved out here, I was like, Wow, that's a peach. Les So yeah, it's it can be just like, insane experience when you're not used to it. But overall, it's not a bad way to go. Just I think people make poor decisions, when they try to become a plant-based diet and follow that practice. And they think vegetables, and they forget about protein. And there are ways to go about it where you can get your protein. Tessa Yeah, and going off of what you said, kind of about, like how you saw a peach and you didn't know it was a peach, would you say that there's some kind of disconnect of where our food comes from? Les I would say, depending on what part of the country you live in, definitely. And in various ways in. Like for me, yeah, growing up in Las Vegas, you would get a peach. But it wasn't like straight from the tree that it was picked that day--it was probably picked, who knows when and then who knows where from to get to your grocery store in Las Vegas. Les And the same can go for many places. even say like Arizona, Utah, Colorado. And while there are more opportunities these days, and I know someone's friend of mine here, her father had a peach orchard actually in Colorado. And it was-- because of different growing season, different growing environment too, things are different. Les But you can still get local produce places. But even--you just gotta ask the question to the right people and find out where it's coming from. Like I

- 14 - said, Las Vegas now a days that I haven't been back there in a long time to really see what the farmers markets are like, but I know there's a lot more local food being grown. Les We always--back there always had we had a local dairy. There are cows, and we had our Anderson dairy, which was the local dairy company. And you don't see that anywhere outside of Las Vegas. Les When I first moved to California, I went to the grocery store to find milk. I'm like, Where's Anderson dairy? Like, I don't know who these are. So yeah, it's a--And sometimes things just don't grow in certain places. Les I would say over the past decade plus of being up here and having my own areas to garden, you learn things and research things. And even in on my own research and finding seed companies, there are certain vegetables you can grow, that are geared towards like low desert environments or high desert environments too, so that way, if you go out to say, Bishop California off of the 395, which is east of the Sierras, and you're at a higher elevation, but you can still grow food, you're gonna have a different type of season, and what you're going to be able to produce, but you can still go stuff out there. makes sense. Yeah. And actually, that goes into the next question. Like, how does that availability of certain kinds of foods, so for others in certain areas impact people's diets? I think the biggest thing that impacts people's diets, really comes down to education. And not just education about food, but just cooking. I've had a lot of time these days and I've actually been reading and listening to lots of

- 15 - podcasts actually dealing about finance and money and budgeting and how to go about doing things like that. Les And I think one of them talking about budget and talking about what the largest expenses are when you have live life, it's housing transportation, Usually, I mean, sometimes you can get away if you're living in San Francisco, you can get away without a car. But uh, but then food. Les And while people may be going to Taco Bell and ordering off the dollar menu, like, you can still make that food at home and cost less money. There was one podcast I listened to, and they were talking about that kind of stuff with his family. And I think he was married, had two, maybe three kids, his wife was more of a stay at home mother. But they had they live; I think in Georgia. So costs were significantly different than what we have up here. But he said he was doing the math and it was like $1 per person per meal for their family. Les And so his wife did a lot of home cooking made their own bread, they didn't eat as much meat as many people would. There's also that balance too. Like I know, while I'm not plant based, I don't eat as much meat in my food. Like if I'm having something, I tried to keep it to four ounces, maybe six or seven, depending on what I'm having, or how much I have and things like that. You don't have to have that to sustain you, eat more vegetables, and it'll fill you up more to Wow, how do you think we could make our current food system more sustainable. So it's, it's funny, so the school that I was working at, again, it was a private, independent high school and they were they're huge on

- 16 - sustainability. And to the point where the new building that the kitchen was built in, was mostly four is beyond LEED Platinum green certification and that's one awards Living Building plants on top solar panels, recycled water from-- even down to the equipment in the kitchen had to be spec'ed a certain way to no gas and things like that. Les So we definitely-- it was an all of your kitchen and it was--there they're very much about sustainability and it comes down to just trying--it's changing our mindset in ways Tessa How is it changing our mindset. people older than us need to be open to the possibilities. Some people will think like solar power, well I think it is going to cost too much. But as time goes on will become more prevalent. Les Plan your life and things like that the education just people learning on how to grow their own food and how to keep sustainable within themselves in their own right. Even just having a small little herb garden like on the very least, it's a cost saver t do you yourself grow anything inside your home or do you do anything like that? I do not in my home--but I luckily, I the place I live does have a small enough backyard that I actually plant in the ground. Les And then this past summer, I was getting rid of a bunch of my old catering equipment and I had tons of plastic bust tubs I was like well, you know

- 17 - what, I am just going to drill holes in the bottom of these and fill them up with dirt. And so I planted tomatoes. I had tomatoes, kale, zucchini and squash. My son loves arugula, so we planted tons of rubella. We just picked a bunch of carrots from the garden lettuce-- Yeah, Tessa sounds delicious. Les And that's the thing like people think you need a lot or need specific containers if you don't have like a ground to plant, like no you don't. les You can-- a wooden box will work. You can go find wood pallets if you want to get creative and you have like a small little wall or something or even an outdoor deck. Even a balcony. Les You can get creative on a balcony if you're living in an apartment building of sorts, like definitely get creative. I'm always, even for me, I save all my plastic big plastic bottles. I save those because then I'll use that to winter over vegetables that I'll plant now, and then be able to harvest, and come springtime and early summer and stuff. So it takes a little time a little effort just to kind of learn about how to go about it. Aya Yeah. Do you think it-- like from education-wise? Like-- Yeah, we're talking about educating people on like, how to make their own food and be resourceful. Do you think that's something that like, should be taught in like, schools? Or like, how do you think? I'm just thinking, I don't know, I'm just kind of thinking,

- 18 - Les Oh, the things that I think should be taught in schools. Short answer, yes. Those like life skills are something that I think should be taught. Back in schools, I mean, home actually brought back sewing, to cooking to, like, budgeting and finances and learning about retirement accounts and how money works. Les And how to budget and plan your life and things like that. Definitely. Like, I know, one of my first professors back at USF, It was my first business professor and he goes, you go to high school to learn how to get into college, you go to college, to learn how to be to be a student. And then when you get out of college, that's when you actually learn about your work. And I'm like, okay, yeah. Les And I know, we live in what I call a very busy society, where we are constantly working, and we just need to kind of slow down a bit. We need to learn how to do that. Because otherwise we do just kind of work ourselves. And unfortunately, that is the society we are in these days. Kahlia Yeah. Next question is, do you think the meat industry would be more sustainable? If it was all cattle with grass fed? Like? It takes a lot of energy and grain to feed cattle? But if it was grass fed, do you think you'll be more sustainable? Les One in order to completely grass feed your beef. And you need land to do it? And if I recall, I think the statistic is for every head of cattle, you need an acre of land. But it Yeah, that's just for one cow. But as far as sustainability

- 19 - all grass fed all the time. I don't know if that in the big picture would be sustainable. At least for the from the farmers perspective. Because then you would have to get an entire country and an entire to get behind that mentality. Aya actually I have a quick question going off of that. Would you say that red meat, like beef specifically, is like the most, like least sustainable like meat because of how because the processing of it? Les Um, I would say most people just think be if they're thinking just steaks of sorts, or maybe buy a top round portion and stuff like that. But then there's so much other aspects. Les There, we need with cows specifically. I know. And with the restaurant business, there are cuts that are deemed more sustainable than other cuts. So you got to think if you're sitting at a restaurant, and they can do 100 covers in a night, say 30% of that is they're ordering the hanger steak on the menu. That was 30 cows right there. Les Whereas if there's spying filet mingon, off the menu, that might have been three cows. But the transportation side of it, it's just-- it depends on what you're processing and where it has to go. Not every slaughterhouse will process all types of product. Mel Yeah, yeah. So--that makes sense, though. Thank you. Kahlia

- 20 - Yeah. Thank you. And next, how do you personally decide what food to buy like? What are your choices based off? Isn't price however that organic? Les Funny you asked that question. So I primarily purchase organic. But there has to be a little bit of sense and thought examples example is all by conventional avocados, 't buy or don't need to buy organic avocados because I'm not going to eat that skin on the outside. If it was to be sprayed, the likelihood of that penetrating that skin is going to be very minimal. Les But say a peach, I'm buying organic and nothing else because that is probably one of the most porous skins when it comes to fruits possible. Like all my leafy greens and vegetables and things like that I'll definitely buy organic, my meat I try to buy organic, it's more about organic practices and that's what have appeared-- especially you'll find many farms that are following organic practices, but they just don't want to take the time and make the effort and pay the extra money to get an organic certification. Les So therefore they're like okay, well we have organic practices, we're just not certified organic. So that's where it's saying just really get to know where your foods coming from. Les There is a company online that I'm buying a lot of my produce from called imperfect foods--which is it's a great company, they actually have some pretty great produce I like their comments when I do a sort of customer

- 21 - service complaint, because like well we're sorry that your food was a little too imperfect. Les Like well there's a difference between imperfect and just rotten, there's mold on there. I should not have been sent that. So yeah, I mean it's-- and that sort of mentality too is how sustainability with food can be improved upon like we go to the grocery store, people want to see that picture perfect zucchini, that picture perfect Apple, but if there's a few like rough marks and scuff marks and dents, but it's not bad, Like people don't they don't-- really want to think about that. Les Actually, the company bon Appetit that is the food service at USF there, they do use a program called IDP imperfectly delicious produce through the produce companies that they order from. Les I know this because the company I worked for we were all we were owned by the same big company, and so we could get at a really, really great price zucchinis green zucchini that were like easily--once it came was probably I know 10 inches long and yay wide which you would not find in a grocery store. Les And they're perfectly edible. But people wouldn't think that in a grocery store. So yeah, that that can go a long way is just people having more of an open mind on the appearance of food. Les It was very sad when all this COVID situation happened back in March April May even going into the summer, because of restaurants being shut down

- 22 - especially in California, and all this food was just going to waste-- like no one they couldn't-- it's like you couldn't sell it fast enough. Kahlia Yeah, that's sad. There are always people that need that food Les definitely no that's my-- I really try to keep it tight on the food and only buy when I really need to, and make sure I'm just eating what I have in my fridge, eat the leftovers that are made and try not to throw it out, and if you're you have you are throwing something out, kind of sitting there ask yourself well why did I--Why did I have to throw this out now? What went wrong and then like well How much do you think you actually put in the garbage now? So I'm saying anytime something goes down I'm like oh there went $1 Kahlia Anyone else have any other questions? >>> Is it free question time Kahlia free question time Mel reformulate. Tessa I have a comment but um Yeah, I did go to a farmer’s market. And So Cal and I remember like my friend is super like only buys organic food and we

- 23 - went around asking the booth If they were certified organic, and there was actually only one person there that was certified organic. Tessa So I do agree that like a lot of people like with the guidelines and the rules, that's hard to get the organic certification, but I don't think that should necessarily, like discourage people from engaging like in farmers markets and stuff like that. But yeah, it's interesting, I didn't understand like, how many guidelines there really goes into, especially when you're doing it on your own? Les Yeah, and you, it's easy to get, it's easy to have organic practices, but a lot of farmers because they don't think --they don't always think so big picture, that they're like, well, it's going to cost me x thousands of dollars to get the certification. Les But then once you get that certification, you can probably bump up your prices a little bit, and you got to be able to pay for it somehow. And then if you're a farmer, hopefully you're thinking long term, and you got to kind of know what the cost. cost analysis is like, Okay, how long is it going to take me to pay off this expense? To get the certification. How much does it cost to renew it every year? Which I'm sure is something as well, so. Les But at the same note, again, it's asking questions. Don't--people aren't, you're saying, some people don't engage the farmers and they just kind of walk up and just they just say, is it organic? Or are you organic? And of course, if you're asking a question like that, it's kind of a yes or no question. It's not an engaging question at all.

- 24 - Aya Oh, I have a question. I'm like, for those people who, like moving forward would like to practice a more plant based diet, because in our podcast, we talk about how it can be kind of like a slow switch doesn't have to be all or nothing like and you talked about earlier, needing protein. I guess my question is, like, what can people do to slowly start, like, adopt or moving towards a plant-based diet? Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. Les So Oh, another good question. That a hard one. I would say that-- I never thought about a plant-based diet until I moved to Sonoma County. I knew there was out there. I knew about . But when I first moved out here, there was a girl that I was dating that has some sort of vegan cookbook. And we were at her place one night, she wanted to make something out of there. And so we did, and we tried it. And it was the most god-awful thing I've ever eaten in my life. It was-- had no flavor, it was dry. Like it was some trying to make some sort of like raw taco. Les And there is like, cashew involved, and cabbage and all this stuff. So the biggest key I say is to make sure you're eating good food, I make sure you do your research. To test things out. I will say that I got very lucky that when I started my business, I was in a shared kitchen. And I got to know a fellow chef very well, because you're both of us were in there at all hours of the day, and most of the week, and he is a vegan chef. And his food's amazing. Les If I was able to give a plug, I will, and I'd say choco cookery. But his stuff is amazing. He basically kind of changed my mind on what raw food and vegan food could be.

- 25 - Les My son loves his food. He would eat his food. Like when he was three and four years old. He takes the chef perspective and executed amazingly, when it comes to raw food and vegan food. Les And so it's me making sure you know what you're getting yourself into. And don't judge a book by its cover so to speak. If you try a few things and you don't like it, maybe you try to find out why you don't like it and just don't keep don't just give up at that point. Les And then yeah, it's also it's learning different cultures. I spent a month in India working and I could eat Indian food all day, every day, no meat and be completely content. Now, I wouldn't go totally vegan because I love the all the and the non and things like that. The ghee, but I mean, I definitely could go meatless in those meal, but it's gonna it's, it's the flavor profiles and just it's good tasty food and you don't need that meat, there's plenty of chickpeas and lentils and ways for you to get your protein in a Indian diet. And there's cultures all across the world that are like that. Aya You for sure. Josephine I had a question. I guess kind of a closing thought, um, what change would you like to see happen in like the food industry to move towards a more sustainable future? Les

- 26 - Oh, a change. I would like to see more people cooking at home, I would like to see not so many people relying on fast food. Because one, they don't know how to cook, two, they think it's less expensive. kind of funny, you bring that up because not, I said, I've been cooking for over 20 years. Les I actually started when I was 14 in restaurants back home. And I have also spent time teaching cooking classes for all sorts of ages as young as well, if you count my son, his young as three years old, if you don't count them, I'd say as young as seven or eight years old. Les I used to work for Sur la Tableau for a while. And so I ran their cooking school and I taught classes with them for a long time. And at the school that I was working at, I would do summer camps as well, teaching kids how to cook and you teach them and they're excited about it. And they can do it. Les I mean, I did a whole class last summer called woodfire. Cooking, because the school had a woodfired pizza oven on campus. And everything we made came out of that oven. From pizza dough to a--we did ribs in there, we did a peach cobbler in there we did. We roasted all the vegetables for a salsa, like so. Les Teaching Yeah-- making sure kids learn how to cook. I've actually been in the process of coming up with a YouTube cooking channel of sorts. And I just I need to figure out a more focused mindset for the start of it. Because then I can always do offshoots to other things. But I think if people had an avenue where they didn't have to pay a whole lot of money to go learn

- 27 - how to teach, I can take all of the knowledge and experience that I've had over the years and put it up on this avenue and people can watch free. Aya I'd be interested in watching that. Kahlia That sounds like a good idea. Les If and when more like when it gets started. I would definitely make sure that word gets out. Kahlia Yes. Well, thank you. I think that's all we have. Thank you for your insights and thoughtful comments and for being here with us tonight. Les You're welcome. My pleasure. Mel Thanks again, Mel (music playing) Aya Thank you Les. Aya

- 28 - So now we're going to be talking about you, um, things that people and you can do to practice plant-based diet is relatively simple. The reason why we're talking about plant-based diets rather than vegan diets, per se, is that it doesn't have to be this huge thing where you must switch to veganism or else, you're a terrible person. That's not what we're saying. Aya Well, we want to say is that the more plant-based foods you eat, and try to eliminate more meat, not all necessarily is helping the environment one step at a time. Slowly switching out meat for plant-based substitutes is a great way that you as an individual can take authority in helping reduce our carbon footprint. Aya It can really start small; say you do a week of not eating any red meat. You can start incorporating more legumes like beans and chickpeas and lentils into your diet, you can swap out that red meat I was talking about for something like fish, which emits a significant less amount of co2 than the production of red meat like beef. So it really doesn't have to be this major switch, just slowly switching out his diet into more plant-based alternatives. Josephine Yeah, exactly. And I think part of our responsibility also lies in doing research and kind of being more educated on where our food comes from, because there is a big disconnect. And I think it's our responsibility to kind of fill that void and take responsibility for our actions and, you know, do our part to make sure that the world is a better place. Josephine And this even goes for like, categorizing yourself, like you don't have to put yourself in a category and call yourself vegan or vegetarian. I think that

- 29 - kind of plays a role in like our mindsets. You know, people say like, oh, you're a vegan? And it's kind of like derogatory, you know, you don't want to be, you don't want to have this negative connotation towards you. So just kind of do what makes you feel good. And just be conscious of what you're eating, and how much it affects our environment. Aya So since we are designers, I'm going to be talking about what we as designers can do. Because we really want to focus on sustainability and accessibility when it comes to our topic of plant-based diets. Aya So I talked about accessibility, we really want there to be more accessibility when it comes to plant based food options. Not only in the fast-food industry, of course, but everywhere. As I said, plant-based options are getting more traction in the last few years. But they're still not accessible to everybody. And we really want to change that. Aya Also awareness of where our meat comes from. This can be something like putting as a firmer design solution standpoint, this can be something like putting the picture of a cow per se, like on the meat that you're eating, or on the carton of milk that you're drinking just something that says like, hey, like, here's where your milk or your meat comes from. Here's the animal that made this. That might be a little farfetched. But that's one idea to start bringing awareness of where food comes from. Because we think that there is a lack of understanding of where our food comes from, we take a lot of food for granted. about like, who makes it and like how it's processed, and so seeing the animal or Yeah-- seeing the animal who actually made this food could be an interesting solution to that. Tessa

- 30 - Similar to what Aya said, just kind of having this connection to where food comes from. So going off of the idea of a label there, we can go even further than that, and maybe design the landscapes so that we are in the position closer to seeing cattle and dairy farms. Tessa By doing so we will have an increased connection to where our food comes. And that would hopefully solve a lot of the issues that we have, and the relationship that we have with our food. Kahlia And our current food system has been shown to be very inefficient. And Aya and Tessa said, the disconnect between food is not helping. Kahlia A solution to both the inefficiency of our food system and the disconnect between people food could be aquaponic farming. Kahlia In aquaponic farms, fish are put to work. This farming system mimics a natural ecosystem. fish waste becomes food for bacteria, which then becomes a great fertilizer for the plants. And the plants clean the water for the fish is a pretty self-sufficient cycle. And since food is being grown on the water, eliminate the weeds and unwanted critters that could be eating your plants. Kahlia So yay, no pesticides, you then get fresh veggies and fish out of your system. Since aquaponic Farming is basically self-sustaining, it can be set up practically anywhere and scale to whatever size one might want. You can get a fish tank and create a mini aquaponic farm in your own home.

- 31 - Josephine And even going off of like my point before, even just changing up like the rhetoric, you know, like you don't have to put a vegan stamp on something, you can put plant base and have a little cute little plant on it. And it's a little more pleasant to look at and you're not like necessarily categorizing yourself again. Josephine And going back to what Les was saying in the interview. We should try and incorporate things like home-ec back into our curriculum so we can train the younger generations from the beginning, how to live a sustainable life. Josephine You know, it's not easy to change the habits that we have today, but it almost seems easier to do some damage control and prevent our mistakes from happening again, and just kind of set these kids up to not have to worry so much about climate change and obesity and diminishing resources. Tessa Thank you for listening to our podcast Spill the Beans. We're hoping that you feel inspired by our podcasts to make more sustainable eating choices. Things like visiting your local farmers market and or just reducing overall intake of meat and dairy can do a lot for the world. Together we can reduce our carbon footprint. Tessa Thank you Tessa (music playing)

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