Unauthorised Tapping Into Or Hacking of Mobile Communications: Follow Up
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House of Commons Home Affairs Committee Unauthorised tapping into or hacking of mobile communications: follow up Oral and written evidence 4 September 2012 Deputy Assistant Commissioner Sue Akers QPM Ordered by The House of Commons to be printed 4 September 2012 HC 562-i Published on 7 November 2012 by authority of the House of Commons London: The Stationery Office Limited £4.00 The Home Affairs Committee The Home Affairs Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration, and policy of the Home Office and its associated public bodies. Current membership Rt Hon Keith Vaz MP (Labour, Leicester East) (Chair) Nicola Blackwood MP (Conservative, Oxford West and Abingdon) James Clappison MP (Conservative, Hertsmere) Michael Ellis MP (Conservative, Northampton North) Lorraine Fullbrook MP (Conservative, South Ribble) Dr Julian Huppert MP (Liberal Democrat, Cambridge) Steve McCabe MP (Labour, Birmingham Selly Oak) Rt Hon Alun Michael MP (Labour & Co-operative, Cardiff South and Penarth) Bridget Phillipson MP (Labour, Houghton and Sunderland South) Mark Reckless MP (Conservative, Rochester and Strood) Mr David Winnick MP (Labour, Walsall North) Powers The Committee is one of the departmental select committees, the powers of which are set out in House of Commons Standing Orders, principally in SO No 152. These are available on the Internet via www.parliament.uk. Publication The Reports and evidence of the Committee are published by The Stationery Office by Order of the House. All publications of the Committee (including press notices) are on the Internet at www.parliament.uk/homeaffairscom. Committee staff The current staff of the Committee are Tom Healey (Clerk), Dr Richard Benwell (Second Clerk), Ruth Davis (Committee Specialist), Eleanor Scarnell (Committee Specialist), Andy Boyd (Senior Committee Assistant), Michelle Garratty (Committee Assistant). John Graddon (Committee Support Officer) and Alex Paterson (Select Committee Media Officer). Contacts All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the Home Affairs Committee, House of Commons, 7 Millbank, London SW1P 3JA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 3276; the Committee’s email address is [email protected]. List of witnesses Tuesday 4 September 2012 Page DAC Sue Akers QPM Ev 1 cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [SO] Processed: [06-11-2012 14:43] Job: 023365 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/023365/023365_o001_db_HAC 04.09.12 Unauthorised tapping corrected.xml Home Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 1 Oral evidence Taken before the Home Affairs Committee on Tuesday 4 September 2012 Members present: Keith Vaz (Chair) Nicola Blackwood Alun Michael Mr James Clappison Bridget Phillipson Michael Ellis Mark Reckless Lorraine Fullbrook Mr David Winnick Dr Julian Huppert ________________ Examination of Witness Witness: Sue Akers QPM, Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Metropolitan Police Service, gave evidence. Q1 Chair: Could I call the Committee to order and hold. Likely victims need to have some other refer everyone present to the Register of Members’ additional material around them that would enable Interests where the interests of members of this hacking to take place, so would include, for instance, Committee are noted, and can I welcome, for her last a PIN number or a unique voicemail number. Also we appearance before the Select Committee, Deputy have some audio tapes, so where we have those or Assistant Commissioner Sue Akers. transcripts we include them as likely victims. Alun Michael: As these are policing issues, I perhaps As of 31 August, potential victims—people whose ought to declare, in addition to what is registered in name and phone number are in the material—are the Register of Members’ Interests, the fact that I am 3,675, of whom 1,894 have been contacted, meaning a candidate for police commissioner elections in South that unsuccessful attempts to contact on numbers are Wales in November. 1,781. Likely victims, which is the category that perhaps Members will be more interested in because Q2 Chair: Thank you. Mr Michael is noting the fact these people are likely to have been victims of that he is a candidate in the forthcoming elections in hacking, we assess to be at 1,069, of whom 658 have November for South Wales. been contacted, leaving 388 who were not contactable This is part of our regular update from the Deputy for various reasons and 23 who, for operational Assistant Commissioner, following our report last reasons, we chose not to tell. year into phone hacking. We are most grateful to you for coming here today, and we have noted the Q3 Chair: That is a higher figure than the figure you evidence that you have given to Lord Justice Leveson. gave Lord Justice Leveson, because on 23 July you If I can begin by running through some of the figures said that the number of likely victims was 702. You that you have given us in the past and some of the are giving us a figure of over 1,000 today, so it has figures that you have given to Lord Justice Leveson. grown since July. Is it because you have gone through I think you said on the last occasion, Deputy Assistant the files and you have found more names? Commissioner, that there were 4,775 potential Sue Akers: There will be an assessment taken on the victims. As of now, 2,615 have been notified. There basis of a whole range of factors and—1 are 2,160 yet to be notified. There are 702 likely victims of this, you told Lord Justice Leveson, on 23 Q4 Chair: But the figure is higher? July. Twenty-six people have been arrested, nine Sue Akers: But the figure is higher. people have been charged and therefore, according to my calculations, it will be December 2013 before all Q5 Chair: Yes, and this is because you have come the potential victims have been notified. Do you across more names? recognise those figures or do you have some new Sue Akers: This will be in the course of our figures for the Committee? investigation, as we speak to people and they get to Sue Akers: I think it would be a very useful view material, they start to identify other people that opportunity now to give you what we consider to be are in the material and lead us on to others, so it the most up-to-date figures. They are a bit of a moving grows, rather than the other way round. feast because, as we investigate and get to meet with who we think are potential victims, sometimes they Q6 Chair: As of now—because the Committee is do not turn out to be such. That is why there is a keen to know when this is all going to be concluded, fluctuation in victims. If I may start with the victims, firstly, I can say that 1 The witness later clarified: For the avoidance of doubt, the we have notified and made contact with every single evidence I gave to Lord Justice Leveson on 23 July was that “we've notified a total of 2,615, of which 702 we think are person we consider to be either potential or likely likely to have been victims”. So this should be compared victims. Potential victims we define as anybody whose with the figure of 658, not 1069. This changes the response name and phone number is in the material that we to Q4—the figure is in fact lower. cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [E] Processed: [06-11-2012 14:43] Job: 023365 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/023365/023365_o001_db_HAC 04.09.12 Unauthorised tapping corrected.xml Ev 2 Home Affairs Committee: Evidence 4 September 2012 Sue Akers QPM as I am sure you are—how many more are left to arrested in Operation Weeting, eight have now been be contacted? charged, which means that there are some who are Sue Akers: None. still awaiting a decision and others that it has been Chair: None? decided to take no further action against. Sue Akers: We have contacted over 2,500 people and Chair: Dr Huppert has a question on people notified. we are satisfied that we have made contact. There may be more to be followed up but, in actual notification Q13 Dr Huppert: Perhaps I misheard you, DAC terms, everybody has been notified. Akers. Did you say that there were some people it had been decided not to contact? Q7 Chair: You are telling this Committee today, as Sue Akers: Yes. of now— Sue Akers: We have completed the activity that the Q14 Dr Huppert: Why was it decided not to Committee were very worried about on the last contact them? occasion. Sue Akers: For operational reasons. Chair: We were. Sue Akers: I think I said we had contacted 170, and Q15 Dr Huppert: These are people whose phones you were adding names and phone numbers and were hacked but are presumably involved in some coming to very big numbers but— other way as well? Sue Akers: Yes. It is very difficult for me to disclose Q8 Chair: But you have contacted everyone you that here. think you need to contact and the total is what? Sue Akers: The total number of potential and likely Q16 Dr Huppert: Will you at some point be victims combined is 4,744, and of those 2,500 have notifying them? been contacted. The rest we can’t contact. Sue Akers: No. Q9 Chair: You have now arrested 26 people to date. Q17 Nicola Blackwood: I want to follow up on the Has that gone up since yesterday? 2,500 people that are non-contactable. At what point Sue Akers: In terms of numbers of arrests, on do you come to the conclusion that individuals are Operation Weeting, which is the phone hacking, we non-contactable? What process did you go through for have arrested 25.