Manchester Arena Inquiry Day 35 November 12, 2020 Opus 2
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Manchester Arena Inquiry Day 35 November 12, 2020 Opus 2 - Official Court Reporters Phone: +44 (0)20 3008 5900 Email: [email protected] Website: https://www.opus2.com November 12, 2020 Manchester Arena Inquiry Day 35 1 Thursday, 12 November 2020 1 that JSaRC did? 2 (9.30 am) 2 A. It would work with, in the crowded places example, with 3 (Delay in proceedings) 3 solution providers to provide technologies and test 4 (9.42 am) 4 technologies that would make public places more secure, 5 MR GREANEY: Good morning, sir. The gentleman in the 5 screening technologies for going into events and arenas, 6 witness box is Shaun Hipgrave, and I’ll begin by asking 6 et cetera. 7 that he be sworn, please. 7 Q. As we’re going to hear during your period as director of 8 MR SHAUN HIPGRAVE (affirmed) 8 Protect and Prepare at OSCT, you’ve been heavily 9 SIR JOHN SAUNDERS: Mr Hipgrave, this is the second time 9 involved in dealing with what we used to call crowded 10 you have come. I’m very sorry you came the last time 10 places or crowded spaces, now called publicly accessible 11 and we couldn’t deal with your evidence. 11 locations . When you were at JSaRC were you also 12 Mr Greaney, I’m also asked that the next witness 12 concerned with dealing with that kind of situation? 13 should watch, hear or be in the room for this evidence, 13 A. Parts of my work were, yes. 14 whichever... 14 Q. Prior to joining the Home Office, were you first ofall 15 (Pause) 15 a soldier for 10 years in the British Army? 16 Thank you very much. Otherwise it saves repetition 16 A. Yes. 17 of things which one witness deals with to go over again. 17 Q. Then a police officer for 13 years? 18 MR GREANEY: It does, sir, and it is to be encouraged, we 18 A. Yes. 19 quite agree. 19 Q. And then I think you spent 13 years in the private 20 SIR JOHN SAUNDERS: Unless anyone has any problem with that? 20 sector working predominantly with law enforcement 21 Thank you. 21 agencies in the field of digital forensics ? 22 Questions from MR GREANEY 22 A. That’s correct, yes. 23 MR GREANEY: Mr Hipgrave, would you begin by telling us your 23 Q. I’m next going to ask you to deal with in overview the 24 full name? 24 UK’s counter−terrorism strategy known as CONTEST. 25 A. Shaun Andrew Hipgrave. 25 Sir , if it ’s helpful I ’m at paragraph 9 of the 1 3 1 Q. Are you the director of Protect and Prepare in the 1 updated witness statement of Mr Hipgrave. 2 Office for Security and Counter−terrorism? 2 In dealing with that general topic, we’ ll address, 3 A. I am. 3 first of all , the aims of and responsibility for 4 Q. So, The OSCT? 4 CONTEST. Is the United Kingdom’s counter−terrorism 5 A. Yes. 5 strategy known as CONTEST? 6 Q. Does the OSCT form part of the Home Office? 6 A. It is , yes. 7 A. It does, yes. 7 Q. Does that set out how the government will seek to 8 Q. Have you held that post since June 2019? 8 continue to reduce the risk to the United Kingdom and 9 A. That’s correct, yes. 9 its citizens and interests overseas from terrorism? 10 Q. Prior to that, were you the head of the Joint Security 10 A. It does, yes. 11 and Resilience Centre? 11 Q. Is CONTEST split into four strands? 12 A. Yes. 12 A. It is , yes. 13 Q. Is that known as JSaRC? 13 Q. What are those four strands, please? 14 A. Yes. 14 A. Prevent, Pursue, Protect and Prepare. 15 Q. Which I think itself formed part of the OSCT? 15 Q. Is the purpose of Prevent and Pursue to reduce the 16 A. That’s correct, yes. 16 threats that we as a community face? 17 Q. And had you held that role for 2 years? 17 A. That’s correct, yes. 18 A. Yes. 18 Q. Is the purpose of Protect and Prepare to reduce our 19 Q. Is JSaRC a unit that was established to help the 19 vulnerabilities ? 20 government and private security sector suppliers to work 20 A. Protect to reduce our vulnerabilities , and Prepare in 21 more closely together to achieve better security 21 response to an attack. 22 outcomes? 22 Q. Should we view those strands in isolation or in some 23 A. It was, yes, and the private sector in its entirety , 23 different way? 24 yes. 24 A. No, they are integrated as a system and whilst we treat 25 Q. Can you give us an idea of the type of work therefore 25 them in the policy function separately , at a system 2 4 Opus 2 [email protected] Official Court Reporters +44 (0)20 3008 5900 November 12, 2020 Manchester Arena Inquiry Day 35 1 level they all work together to overall reduce the 1 in a few sentences. 2 threat of terrorism. 2 A. So the Prepare strand is about preparing for a response 3 Q. As you’re aware and as the core participants are aware, 3 to a terrorist attack, and in my area it does include 4 you are going to give your evidence in at least two 4 the attack response from the emergency services to 5 parts, and potentially more than two parts. Today 5 a terrorist attack, the support for victims from 6 you’re going to deal principally with the Protect strand 6 a terrorist attack as well , and counter−terrorism, 7 of CONTEST, and even more specifically with publicly 7 national counter−terrorism exercising in preparing how 8 accessible locations . 8 to deal with a terrorist attack. 9 A. Yes. 9 Q. I said you were only going to deal with Protect today, 10 Q. Before we get to that, what I’d like you to do is please 10 but you are in fact going to help us with 11 explain in simple terms, or high−level terms, however 11 counter−terrorism exercising as well because that is one 12 one wishes to put it , each of the four strands. So just 12 of the issues that has arisen in the course of the oral 13 really in a few sentences, first of all , how would you 13 evidence hearings so far , so we’ ll cover that as well , 14 describe Prevent, please? 14 albeit that will not take very long. 15 A. So Prevent is the area of CONTEST where we prevent 15 In relation to each of those four strands, does the 16 people from being radicalised and entering into 16 OSCT lead? 17 terrorism. We have a programme that has different 17 A. Yes. 18 aspects to it that will prevent people from getting 18 Q. What does that mean, leading those strands? 19 involved in terrorism. 19 A. We have a director−general for OSCT, who is not only the 20 Q. So it’s about the identification of those who are 20 system leader for OSCT but also the senior responsible 21 vulnerable to radicalisation ? 21 owner for counter−terrorism across the UK Government, 22 A. Yes. 22 and we have a series of forums, strategic forums, where 23 Q. And even those who are in the process of radicalisation 23 we bring the system together to ensure that we have 24 and trying to prevent that happening or getting worse? 24 a system response for counter−terrorism so that 25 A. Yes. 25 we aren’t being treated in our separate pillars , we are 5 7 1 Q. Next, in a few sentences, Pursue, please. 1 working with our operational partners to ensure we have 2 A. Pursue will work as a system with operational partners 2 a systematic approach to countering terrorism. 3 who identify and investigate terrorism where it happens, 3 Q. So it’s all about having an organised, systematic and 4 so it ’s essentially an investigation and intelligence 4 coordinated approach across government to 5 function. 5 counter−terrorism? 6 Q. Would it include, for example, Counter−terrorism 6 A. Yes, and there are various meetings and forums that 7 Policing? 7 allow that to happen and, flowing down from the top, 8 A. Yes. 8 there’s the National Security Council that the 9 Q. Next, in a few sentences, although you’re going to deal 9 Prime Minister chairs, right down to the National 10 with the detail of at least some of this, Protect, 10 Security Strategic and Implementation Group 11 please. 11 Counter−terrorism, that DG OSCT chairs, and that flows 12 A. Protect is where we can identify vulnerabilities in 12 down to all the four P boards. So what you see is the 13 certain areas, not just publicly accessible locations , 13 system leadership from the top is flowing down to policy 14 with people as well . It also has responsibility for 14 at the P board level. 15 protecting VIPs and identifying those vulnerabilities 15 Q. What I am going to do, in fact ion a few moments, before 16 and mitigating against them. 16 we get to Protect, is just to ask you to help us with 17 Q. Although we’re going to be dealing with publicly 17 what the structure of government is in relation to 18 accessible locations today, does addressing the threat 18 counter−terrorism.