UKY Video Production | 2019-02-24 BTB (Eli Capilouto) VER2

(SINGING) On, on, U of K. We are right for the fight today. Hold that ball and hit that line. Every Wildcat star will shine. We'll fight, fight, fight for the blue and white.

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SPEAKER: From the campus of the , you're listening to Behind the Blue.

KODY KISER: This year marks the 70th year of integration at the University of Kentucky due to the efforts of Lyman T. Johnson, who broke the color barrier with his successful legal challenge in 1949. As progress has been made since that time, more can and will be done. I'm Kody Kiser with UK PR and marketing.

On this edition of Behind the Blue, University of Kentucky President Eli Capilouto sat down with UK Public Relations and Strategic Communications Intern Aaron Porter Jr. to discuss the importance of Lyman T. Johnson's historic action, the progress the school has made, and more room for improvement in the areas of belonging and diversity on UK's campus.

AARON PORTER: My name is Aaron Porter. And today, we have the 12th president of the University of Kentucky with us today, President Eli Capilouto. We thank you for coming in today, sir. How are you doing today?

ELI CAPILOUTO: I'm great, Aaron. How are you?

AARON PORTER: I'm good. I'm good. As you know, February is-- well, 2019 the year marks the 17th year of integration here on UK's campus. 70 years ago, Lyman T. Johnson broke down the racial

barriers here at the University of Kentucky being the first African-American to attend the

university. What does that mean to you and what does that mean to this university as well?

ELI CAPILOUTO: I think Lyman T. Johnson's story is a powerful one. It's one that we need to pass on to this generation since it's been 70 years. And we need to pass on to the next generation. It is filled with lessons of sort of courage, persistence, perseverance driven by a commitment to fairness

and justice. So we can apply all those values and traits today to many things that we have to

confront. I believe students will be inspired by the story.

One of the powerful images-- and there are many-- of Lyman T. Johnson on this campus-- and I know you'll find busts in different offices around campus of Lyman T. Johnson-- there's a powerful photograph in one of our buildings of Lyman T. Johnson and Thurgood Marshall who represented him.

When we have the annual Lyman T. Johnson dinner, I meet those who were close to him and knew him in his time and hear another story one lady told me that they really couldn't get any office space when he was working on his case. And he and Thurgood Marshall, a future Supreme Court Justice, had to sit in the back of a car and type the brief. So all those stories are rich and the opportunity to retell them and the opportunity to pause and think about our unfinished work.

AARON PORTER: So like how do you, being the president, how do you want his legacy or how do you see the university keeping his legacy alive and his spirit going forward with you being the leader of this campus? Do you think about some of the daily things that you spoke about, some of the different issues that you knew about with his journey coming to University of Kentucky? Does that spirit still live in you or in the makeup of the university? Like how do you want his legacy to never not be remembered?

ELI CAPILOUTO: I'd have to say personally for me, the 70th anniversary of what he did coincides with my 70th birthday. So it's a milestone for the university, somewhat of a personal milestone. And I think what I've witnessed in my lifetime knowing that some of the things he did opened doors. And I also know that he was a pioneer. And I'm glad to know he's a pioneer in Kentucky.

Many of us know that this should have happened earlier. These freedoms and amendments added that guaranteed full access and so forth at the close of the Civil War still were never fulfilled. It took individual and collective bravery like this I think for us to realize. He did this in

1949. Brown vs. Board of Education is handed down five years later.

So although we all hope that we would have begun this work a century ago, even with our

faults here in Kentucky, we took a big step early. He forced us to. And then I've certainly heard

stories of what his courage meant to others who came forward. I know the four men we honor in a statue in front of our football training facility and football stadium, their courage. They're

the first to integrate the .

So I think it's important that we recall those days. We should also pause during this sort of

year of observance and celebration to say, what else is there to do? And there's much to do. AARON PORTER: So I want to say two words to you. And I kind of want you to-- the first things that pop into your head when I say these two words and kind of let it be known. So inclusion and belonging, when you hear those two words, what do those two words mean to you?

ELI CAPILOUTO: So and as many people have said, there's diversity. We can have representation along all kinds of differences, I'd call them, faith, ethnicities, nationalities, skin color, and one can go on and on. So my vision of belonging and inclusion is one can hold on and be proud of an identity, or a multiple set of identities. Your mind is open to learn and embrace others in terms of their story.

And I hope that, at least it's been the case for me, when I profoundly listen, I found I find traction within somebody else's story. I also want that our students-- and it is the case in the

United States most of us grew up in some of the neighborhoods where people were very similar to us. You come here, and sometimes, it's the most diverse community you've been involved in.

But it is almost certain the case that when you go forward in work and life, you're going to either professionally or personally be in a community that has differences. And I believe your ability to succeed in those future communities depends on how well you master the skill set and develop a comfort level while you're at the University of Kentucky.

AARON PORTER: So dealing with those two words, in some instances, we'll see on campus that certain students may not feel the inclusion of belonging that the university puts out there, or they may not have that feeling of I'm welcome in this building, or in this classroom, or in this establishment on campus.

And in some cases, if the students aren't the majority, they really feel like they don't include--

they're not included or belong anywhere. To those students, like, what would you want to say

to those students who may feel that sense of I don't know where I can fit in on this campus, or

I don't know where I can find a home on this campus? What would you say to those students?

ELI CAPILOUTO: First of all, I would say I could never know fully what you feel. But I work at trying to understand as best I can what you feel. And I hope we as the collective-- and I believe in the

power of we-- if we all take it upon ourselves to develop a deeper sense of empathy to walk in someone else's shoes. I think when we stop to listen, we are going to find our common humanity, those things that inextricably link us together in a common destiny. We work to provide those kinds of opportunities. We certainly have more work to do. We have

built spaces here and activities, many around student life or academic programs, where we try to facilitate this. Our numerous living learning communities, the facilities we have where--

someone said to me the other day in the Gatton Student Center. We were having lunch in Champion's Kitchen. And they said, wow, this place is packed. It forces me to sit at a table with people I don't know every day.

And that's with purpose. You had to have an attractive place with good food where people

wanted to be. But then it lends itself we hope to communication. We also recognize that there's one thing students share here every day. And that is they go to class.

And we've undertaken efforts through our self center focuses on learning teaching to provide courses for faculty on how you can handle moments within your class where these issues

arise regardless of the discipline you're in with hopes that they can further facilitate.

I appreciate the robust activities of different units across campus. Certainly, the Martin Luther King Center comes to mind. I get their weekly email of all their activities. And I'm impressed because within all of those is a deep intention to build community, a sense of belongingness.

My biggest concern on this campus is whenever I think someone feels alone.

AARON PORTER: I know one thing that students face when-- and things I've experienced as well in feeling alone is that when I got to the University of Kentucky, one of the first things I experienced was being the only person of color in a classroom, being the only African-American male in a classroom.

That was a different experience for me. I never really had felt that before. That kind of ties back into belonging.

Sometimes, it's a little tougher for students they don't see people that look like them,

, whether it's faculty or just students. Depending on the major, you may never see someone that looks like you in a classroom. With those people who have those type of backgrounds and those type of issues, what is it that the university wants to do, is doing, to

make sure that students of all ethnicities, of all races, of all backgrounds, religious beliefs, whatever it is, that they can see someone that looks like them?

Because I believe one important thing for someone is when I see someone that looks like me, it allows for me to say, maybe this is obtainable. And maybe this is possible. Maybe I can

graduate from college. Maybe I can become a or go into medical school or into grad school. So for those students, what is being done or what can be done to make sure that every

student-- you kind of touched a little bit. But how does that representation, not only in the classrooms, not only in the spaces, but just anywhere on this campus, what can be done to help better that?

ELI CAPILOUTO: Some of the more clear cut things we've done that you would expect, we have grown the enrollment of underrepresented minorities on this campus. One of the things we've done to make certain that we have a more diverse community is increase the Parker awards. Since I

arrived seven years ago, we've doubled the amount we spend on that, today totaling probably some $20 million.

It's diversity defined broadly as we must do within the law. But I think it has made our campus more rich. We have results we can point to. This was not the case for the University of

Kentucky. But it certainly was last year. We were the university where the greatest number of African-American students earned undergraduate degrees.

We also recognize too that the ability of all of us to see beyond the color of our skin. And there's some things that are invisible that mark our differences. But I found students who feel

they too are alone, someone in a minority faith, someone who comes from a certain region of the state where people may have opinions or generalizations. I think when we're honest and

provide opportunity for people to share and hear their stories, again, hope that people would say, gee, I thought I felt this way, understand someone else does, but why?

And that means people like me who seemingly appear that maybe I'm like everybody else. In many ways, I am. In some ways, I'm not. I have a responsibility to recognize that whatever my

path was, maybe it was made it a little easier by the color of my skin. No matter how hard I think I may have worked and earned it, the hills that were presented to me on certain days

were not the unfair ones presented to others who may have been different.

So I think recognition of where you are and what fortunate and unfortunately may have gotten

you to that place, your development of a sense of empathy so that you can understand someone who shared some of the things you just shared with me. I would bet you would feel

much better if you knew I fully understood how you feel.

Because it is probably going to be a reality in Kentucky that in terms of numbers, you will

always be in a minority. But what I'm hoping for is the commonality of our humanity, of our hearts and souls and minds, makes us all feel part of, as Dr. King would say, the beloved

community where everyone comes to the table deserving of respect and fairness and understanding and affection.

AARON PORTER: So the experiences of all students I think we kind of both agree should always be appreciated. Every student has a story. Every student has a voice. But at times, certain students may feel

as if because of who I am, because of what I may represent, that I don't have the same voice as others, or some would say like a voiceless person, or we as a people, we're trying to be

heard. But we're not heard. We're trying to be seen. But we aren't seen. Another way it can be put is talking but no one is kind of listening.

For those students, and because we're in a, under your leadership, in an era where we want to try to build belonging and community and be more of a diverse university, students are still

feeling that way. What can be done? And what would you say to those type of students who see the efforts but still may not feel that it's better for them as they're on your campus at this

university?

ELI CAPILOUTO: Our responsibility as a community at a time when we can quickly be divided. Social media allows a rapid communication, some of it accurate, some of it not, some of it complete, a lot of it incomplete. We jump to our interpretations. And we communicate in short sentences,

sometimes an outburst. It doesn't lend itself to listening, to understanding.

I hope that we model behavior on a individual level. It's an expectation we have of our administrators, our faculty, an expectation we have of student leaders. We undertook probably the most ambitious unconscious bias training on a campus in the United States. We see in some of our work life surveys and so forth that those make a difference. I don't think that is the

one intervention. To me, it represents an example of numerous levers we need to pull.

I think I have a responsibility-- and I hope others join me on this-- to recognize for those of us who went to college 50 years ago, things have changed, and some things have not. I sort of lived in a time that was turbulent. It was the Vietnam War. There were protests. There was this desire to return to civility and respect that we have for one another. That particular issue of an unpopular war made campuses a place of a lot of protest.

Today, I'd like to tell people the University of Kentucky, from what I can tell, for 150 years has had as its principles a place to be kind and courteous and civil. Someone said to me the other

day in a moment where our campus had shared a tragedy and how they watch people come together in support of one another that this place has an abundance of heart. And I think that's true.

What's different is we have more people who are different on our campus. And within us, these unconscious biases, things we may not notice, may preclude us from being our full selves and in a new context. We talked about Lyman T. Johnson earlier. Well, when this

university opened, it didn't include women. And that took a set of courageous and determined people who certainly felt alone.

I've heard the story that President Patterson, who was the first president of the university, the first graduate of the university apparently then. There weren't as many graduates. And they were all seated on the stage. And he asked this first female graduate if she wanted to sit on the stage with the men.

So imagine that question. And she was pretty firm and crisp in her reply to him. So that was a

time where we assumed the largely male population of this campus had to adjust its interpretation of who was supposed to be on the campus and what was their future like.

So we've seen this over time. Our progress, I hope, is like this. On some days, we take steps backwards. I want to provide as many opportunities for our students to get to know one another. I also want to find spaces where people can be with individuals who have a similar story. I think there's nothing wrong with having an identity. Today, people voice these

concerns about identity politics.

Well, all of us have something within us or within our story that we identify with. I think that's

fine. But to look at other individuals as the other or the different is short-sighted. And I hope through the education we provide, the experiences provided, the examples we provide, programming we provide, that people are able to see more clearly, listen more purposefully, and develop a fuller appreciation for someone else's story that is different than theirs.

AARON PORTER: So I've always looked at a university, any university, as being like a melting pot. You have so many different people, depending on the size. We have a very large university with over I

believe 30,000 students. So there's, like we said earlier, all types of people from every walk of life.

With diversity, in your perfect world, you being the president of the university, where would you-- what would the perfect university look like to you when it came up to-- well, you can even say like the racial makeup sort of different people or ethnicities? Like if you could reimagine or see this university or 20 years down the road or something of that. So it's like, how would you

want the University of Kentucky to look? And how do you want people to view it from an outside perspective as well?

ELI CAPILOUTO: Well, I hope people view us as a welcoming community open in mind and heart and that, regardless of your story, you're not going to be coming to a world that is just tolerant. You're coming to a world that welcomes, that sees value in differences and sees value and makes the effort to learn more deeply someone else's story, that you're going to be able to find traction

from that story.

There are some demographic numbers, such that if you said simply, well, I want to look like

Kentucky, I'm not certain what Kentucky looks like in 20 years. But I think that that's a limited definition. I did do the analysis one time. I think it's an interesting one, but, again, not one that justifies where one is or where one wants to go.

But I looked at the percentage of African-American students in all the flagship universities through the south from Florida to Texas to Virginia and, amongst our sister flagship universities, how many of them have a percentage of African-American students that is higher

than their state population. Well, we're one of two. And I'm proud that we've done that.

And I look with great curiosity the other flagship universities are a third to a half in terms of their student population compared to the general population of their state. But there are states that aren't too far from here that have three times what we have in terms of African-American representation.

So recognizing that most likely our work, our where we're going to live, is going to take us in and out of Kentucky, we want people to be prepared to succeed regardless of where they land

in. And in most cases, it's going to be more diverse.

So it is an understanding and appreciation for your story, who you are, how you observe a

faith or not, your family's story and ethnicity, language, all of those things. And I think one should be able to proudly hold. But I hope you can proudly share. I hope there are receptive ears that want to learn from your story and make one feel accepted, embraced, loved, that sense of belonging that we hope for everybody.

AARON PORTER: If I can ask just like a specific question for this question here, I would like to. So for, I would say, just for minority students specifically, when their four or five years are up at the university,

or whenever they graduate, or whenever that time comes, what is it that you want them to gain and understand while they're at university before they graduate and leave the University of Kentucky?

ELI CAPILOUTO: So I want for all students this, that to their fullest, they have mastered a set of skills associated with a particular program of study or programs of study, that they walk away with a more than adequate set of quantitative skills or level of quantitative literacy, the ability to communicate

effectively in voice and paper and all kinds of media that one could examine today, the depth of understanding of people of difference so that one feels comfortable in a world that they're going to live in, that we have--

And I think this is a responsibility we have that through learning by doing, through internships and co-ops, research individually or with a group, study your way, service learning. They're a set of soft skills that employers look for for the future. I hope people can walk away knowing

full well you're going to grow. You need to grow. But you're prepared for that first step into graduate school or on a career path.

I hope that everybody recognize the benefit of remaining curious, that you develop a skill set that gives you analytical tools, because the world is changing so quickly. The acceleration of technological advances is such as we can't teach everything to you while you're here. And the depth of knowledge that's being added every year is too immense for you to learn while you're

here. So we have to prepare you to be that continuous learner.

I mean, I'll give you this example. So I like to get up early in the morning, read my

newspapers. What I read a lot about today-- artificial intelligence. Gee, what does that mean? What are the consequences? We've had a couple of cases. But we're going to have more that drew our attention to what is gene editing mean? So we've mapped the human genome. We're able to do incredibly beneficial things.

There have been successful treatment of those who suffer the severe consequences of sickle cell disease. One can go in and edit genes and in a way heal or cure. This is miraculous. Well,

if one goes much further, you can say, gee, what else do we want to go in and edit in our genes? Certainly, people would think, gee, there are birth defects.

But there's some people that think what if we discovered a viciousness gene, and we wanted to decide that, as a society, we could let-- make people less vicious? I mean, you can go on and on and on. There are all these benefits. But where do we go with that? So those involve serious questions.

So I'll look at that and say, gee, somebody needs to understand computer code, you need to

understand the genetic code, but there's a bigger code you need to understand. And that's that moral ethical code that we're all going to have to live by. And I think your generation, given these advances, is going to have to confront many questions like that.

So I hope our future students are well-rounded in their particular fields, that there's a common set of sort of humanities like competencies across people that allow us to better understand and answer difficult questions like the ones I just mentioned.

AARON PORTER: So if I may, I think that was a great explanation from the school perspective of everything. But on, like, a personal level of for minorities if I could try to find my way to say it like for someone

who may be Hispanic, or African-American, or Native American, or like as a person, like, and the school advances are incredible, although that explanation was great. But like on a different level, like what do you want them to walk away from feeling and knowing?

And I guess is like my guess would be you want them to walk away saying, this university did something that gave me a feeling that they cared for me while in my time being at the university about who I was as a human. They gave me the education needs. And I was

thankful for that.

But on a deeper level, I felt like I belonged and was welcome. Like what, on that level of-- on that level, what would you want minority students-- how would you want them to feel once they-- while they're here and once they may leave the university?

ELI CAPILOUTO: That's a very good question. I hope they view us positively as a place where their lives were transformed, but that they recognize we prepared you for further transformation, but that we embrace the values that I think one needs to have as a community of belonging. We pushed deeper understanding. We confronted hard questions.

We provided programming and experiences that allowed not just you to feel as if you belong,

but made others recognize the value of creating that kind of community, especially for people who may be in many ways defined as a minority, that our university stood for justice, equality, goodness, and that at times when, which is hard for people to understand, those unfortunate events where hate is expressed that we make clear our values, that we also strengthened the resolve of people who may be the brunt of such hate.

That we also made clear that the challenge we face in balancing hate speech and free

speech, what lines they may cross such that one takes more aggressive action and all are ones that are sought are fundamental to sort of our society, but it doesn't mean that, once you leave here, everything is static. Things are dynamic.

And you're going to be prepared to not just challenge those, but combat, speak forcefully, answer hate speech with speech that deepens understanding, strengthens community, provides inspiration and courage, and opens the minds and hearts of people who may not fully

understand what such speech could mean.

AARON PORTER: We ought to ask this question at the top of the podcast, so I apologize. But February is Black History Month. And I just kind of want to get your thoughts on maybe some important figures in your life that may be African-American that you kind of looked up to, or some things, or some-- I know you mentioned Dr. King or James Baldwin, things that you kind of hold close to you and some of their models or the way they live their life, you try to emulate that. Could you speak on

some of the maybe some figures in history that you kind of use to help you even lead the university in times?

ELI CAPILOUTO: Excuse me for sharing my personal story, but I grew up in a very segregated South. I grew up in . It certainly has a history and a story. Some of it is dark. I had the opportunity to go back and look at my sort of fourth grade civics books and some of my history books. I would say that slavery and a time of brutality and cruelty was more than softened. In some cases, it was romanticized.

I certainly knew, thanks to my parents and what I learned in my faith community, of wrongs

that were there. And if you grew up in Montgomery, Alabama, as I did, you certainly were aware of Rosa Parks taking a stand and other things that went on around you. When the Freedom Riders came to Montgomery, Alabama, and the police, local police, abandoned them, and they were beaten by a mob, I may have been young. But I understood that was wrong. My family taught me it was wrong.

But for me, the real opening experience was when I was in college. I was a history minor. I

took more courses in history than I did my major, which was chemistry. I enjoyed it. But the offered a course in African-American history. And the first eight weeks of the course was history. So I got my history lesson more fully completed. And I understood what times were like.

The second half of the course focused on African-American literature, music, culture, and so forth. What else was great is the reading list that one had. So I'd never heard of Eldridge

Cleaver or Malcolm X, James Ball and W.E.B. Du Bois. I didn't know any of this. This was all new to me. And I felt like it was the most transformative course I took in college in terms of opening my eyes and allowing me to see clearer.

So that's what I'd hope would be some of the experiences in Black History Month. And you

think of all the people who had to step forward, the names of Tubman. And I think of those brave people who you don't read about them in the history books, but for them to set up a, quote, taxi bus service so that African-Americans could get back and forth from their jobs during the Montgomery bus boycott. There were many heroes of the movement

And you recognize that they're certainly the people we focus on. But they're the I think as Dr. King and others referred to them as the foot soldiers. And in every local community, there was

somebody like that. In Birmingham, Alabama, it was Fred Shuttlesworth.

And if you read the story there, you can see probably without Fred Shuttlesworth, Dr. King may not have been in Birmingham at the right time in the right place to awaken the world. So there are so many heroes that, at least to me, some I don't know by name, but certainly by action and deed.

AARON PORTER: Is there anything that you take from what you just spoke about? Has any of that shaped your way of thinking and how you try to go about leading the University of Kentucky?

ELI CAPILOUTO: That's a very good question. By nature, I hope that I'm a modest and humble person because I think those are important values. Sometimes, that brings you at a moment of can be

reservation when I have to recognize I'm the president the University of Kentucky. And it is my responsibility to speak up and out on something important.

So I balance those and wrestle with those, determined that I have an economy of words that I try to use carefully so that I don't fatigue anybody, but that when I speak, people know that it's of highest importance.

And then the responsibility I feel, and that is to try to lead and promote understanding in the less public forums because I have a role of bridging generations. When I talk to somebody who loves this university but went to school here 60 and 70 years ago and can't understand some of the things they observe and read and hear, it is my responsibility to say, it's a different time. And we have a more diverse population. And let me share a story and perspective that I hope you'll appreciate.

I've got folks that say, gee, I don't understand the criticism I get that I'm a person of privilege. Do you know my story? And some of these stories are dreadful stories of people who lost parents in tragic ways when they were children, people who went from foster home to foster home, people who feel like they had to overcome all kinds of obstacles.

And when somebody generalizes it to say, you're privileged, they take it in one way. It is my responsibility to say, let's more fully understand what's being said here. So I feel a deep responsibility in those moments to represent what I think is best about the University of Kentucky.

AARON PORTER: So those are the only questions I had for you. Was there anything else that you wanted to say in regards to anything we talked about, building belonging, any of those type of things?

ELI CAPILOUTO: I think there's one other thing I didn't say. We certainly doubled the amount of money we put into our William C. Parker awards, our diversity scholarships, around $20 million. We have invested heavily with in another critical competitive market space. And that is for faculty.

Our provost maintains funds some of them matching several hundred thousand dollars a year as an incentive to departments to recruit a diverse faculty. Our vice president for research sets aside nearly a million dollars a year to make available for startup funds to recruit in certain fields. So we certainly hope that when you walk into a classroom, it's going to be more likely that you're taught by someone who's different in a variety of ways.

AARON PORTER: Those are all the questions I had. I want to thank you for your time, President Capilouto. Thank you for coming in and sitting with us and being here on the Behind the Blue podcast. We thank you for your time.

ELI CAPILOUTO: Thank you. You ask important questions. What's good about a good question is if it pushes you to continually think and try to do things better. And many of your questions did. So I'm thankful for that reason as well.

AARON PORTER: Thank you. Thank you, guys, for listening. [MUSIC PLAYING]

SPEAKER: Thank you for joining us on this edition of Behind the Blue. For more information about this episode or any other episode, visit us online at uky.edu/behindtheblue. You can send questions or comments via email to [email protected], or tweet your questions using hashtag #behindtheblue. Behind the Blue is a joint production of University of Kentucky Public Relations and Marketing and UK HealthCare.

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