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1 The Fordham Center On Religion and Culture www.fordham.edu/ReligCulture A CONVERSATION WITH MARY KARR The Conscience of a Writer: Telling the Truth in Poetry and Memoir Fordham Center on Religion and Culture March 20, 2007 6 pm-7:30pm Fordham University 140 W. 62nd Street, New York, New York PETER STEINFELS: Good evening and welcome to “The Conscience of a Writer,” a conversation with Mary Karr about truth in the writing of memoir and poetry, two areas where her work has won both prestigious prizes and a wide audience. I am Peter Steinfels, Co-Director of the Fordham Center on Religion and Culture, which is the sponsor of tonight’s forum and of other forums, conferences, and discussions on important developments in our culture that cannot be fully examined without serious attention to matters of faith and morality. … We are delighted that Mary Karr is our guest and to have Brennan O’Donnell, Dean of Fordham College at Rose Hill in the Bronx, to introduce her fully, to engage her in conversation for about an hour, and then to preside over questions from the audience. Besides his position as Dean, Brennan is a professor of English at Fordham, a position he held for seventeen years at Loyola College in Maryland, where he also directed the Honors Program. With a Ph.D. in English from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, he has specialized in English poetry of the Romantic period and more recently in American Catholic writers. He has published two books on William Wordsworth, edited a collection of essays on Andre Debus, and is working on a book on contemporary American Catholic literature. Besides writing scholarly articles and reviews on a range of British and American authors, from 1994–2000 Dean O’Donnell also edited the important quarterly magazine Conversations on Jesuit Higher Education. We are happy to put this evening’s forum in the capable hands of Brennan O’Donnell. BRENNAN O’DONNELL: Thank you, Peter. It is my pleasure and honor to introduce Mary Karr, who is the Jesse Truesdell Peck Professor of Literature at Syracuse University, who will talk to us this evening about telling the truth in contemporary nonfiction memoir and poetry. 2 The Fordham Center On Religion and Culture www.fordham.edu/ReligCulture One of my favorite of the many admiring blurbs that adorn paperback editions of Mary Karr’s The Liars’ Club is by the recently departed Molly Ivins, who said of this first of her fellow Texan’s two best-selling memoirs: “This book is so good I thought about sending it out for a backup opinion. It’s like finding Beethoven in Hoboken.” She continues: “To have a poet’s precision of language and a poet’s insight into people applied to one of the roughest, toughest, and ugliest places in America is an astonishing event.” The Liars’ Club, which appeared in 1995 and was recently reissued in a tenth-anniversary edition, traces Mary Karr’s childhood in the oil-refinery town of Leechfield, Texas, with a brief sojourn in Colorado in the 1960s. Beginning with the harrowing act of thankfully averted family violence, the book proceeds to explore with fierce honesty, compassion, and wickedly sharp humor a family struggling to survive a volatile mix of inner demons, extraordinary desires, and hard times in an unforgiving place. In calling it “the essential American story and a beauty,” Jonathan Yardley captured the book’s uncanny power to extract something larger than life and almost mythic from this intensely personal story of a single idiosyncratic family. The book, published to rave reviews, spent more than a year on the New York Times’ best-seller list, was listed as a “best book of the year” by periodicals throughout the country, and won numerous awards, including the Martha Albrand Award given by PEN to the Best First Book of Nonfiction published that year. In 2000, Mary Karr continued the story of Pete and Charlie Karr, a refinery worker married to a bohemian artist, and their two daughters, Lecia and Mary Marlene, in Cherry, which takes Mary’s story from the end of elementary school up to 1972, when she left home for good, setting out for California in a truck full of surfer friends and their pharmaceutical cornucopia. Few people, I think, would have the courage to shine this clear a light on their adolescence, that period of life that John Keats famously identified as “a hiatus of disease between the imaginative health of childhood and of adulthood.” Karr’s commitment to telling the truth is evident from beginning to end, even — or especially — in retelling those moments of lacerating shame and embarrassment that most of us would, as she would put it, rather eat a bug than reveal. Reviewers once again marveled at the accomplishment, noting the author’s ability to combine compassion and judgment, laughter, and deep insight into the dark places of the human heart. The book ended up, like Liars’ Club, on just about everyone’s best-book list, including the New York Times’ Best Books of 2000. 3 The Fordham Center On Religion and Culture www.fordham.edu/ReligCulture She is currently at work, so many of us will be happy to know, on the next installment of the story, titled Lit, in which she intends to continue the story through her college years at McAllister, graduate school at Goddard, the birth of her son in 1986, and up to her baptism in the Roman Catholic Church in 1996. As Molly Ivins noted, “The key to Mary Karr’s accomplishment as a memoirist is her poet’s sensibility.” Before she broke into the world as a memoirist, Mary Karr was already known in the world of poetry, having published in most of the best journals and magazines — Parnassus, Paris Review, and Ploughshares — and having her work collected in two books, Abacus in 1987 and the Milton-haunted The Devil’s Tour in 1993. Since 1995, she has published in increasingly prestigious and selective periodicals — The New Yorker, The Atlantic Monthly, for example — and has published two more books of poetry, Viper Rum, which appeared in 1998, and Sinners Welcome in 2006. The last books have included powerful poems emerging from her long journey from agnosticism to belief, and eventually to Catholicism. Another notable feature of each of the last two books has been a major essay on poetry — or maybe I should say a major controversial essay on poetry. If you have read the memoirs and if you remember scenes — such as the one in which the seven-year-old Mary, perched in a chinaberry tree picking off enemies with a BB gun, upon discovery yelling a phrase that “easily was the worst thing anybody in Leechfield ever heard a kid say” – you won’t be surprised at the controversial part. Viper Run included the essay “Against Decoration,” in which Karr went after what she saw as “a debilitating tendency towards the vague, emotionally inert, and prissily difficult in contemporary poetry” — kicking butt, as they might say in Texas — and the greatest offense in the poetry world, naming names, including bigwigs, such as James Merrill and (gasp!) John Ashbery. In Sinners Welcome, she included as an afterword an essay commissioned by Poetry Magazine on the relation of her religious conversion to her poetry, “Facing Altars: Poetry and Prayer,” which recounts her coming to prayer initially as a desperate grasp for a life preserver and finding that the practice of prayer gradually had become the foundation of her life and art. Within a community in which poetry so often is valued as a secular answer to, and decidedly not a manifestation of, the religious impulse, “Facing Altars” is a controversial and courageous essay. Readers of Mary Karr’s life, however, who have seen the courage with which she has faced much more existentially profound issues than acceptance in the world of poetic publishing, may be excused if they do not 4 The Fordham Center On Religion and Culture www.fordham.edu/ReligCulture see her resistance to the easy secularism of the literary establishment as her most courageous stance to date. As her father might say as he watched her roll up her sleeves for this fight, “I feel sorry for them boys, Pokey.” Witness Mary’s January 15th New York Times op-ed piece on the controversy emanating from the revelation that James Frey had fabricated large portions of his supposed memoir, A Million Little Pieces. At a time when Frey, Oprah, and lots of other folks were hemming and hawing about whether or not what Frey did in presenting as fact things that were demonstrably not fact, fudging this way and that about poetic license and the blurry line between fiction and nonfiction, Mary Karr wrote Mr. Frey is “a skunk.” I have heard her in other interviews use rather more colorful language for him, including in an interview at Calvin College I heard her call him “a lying sack of doo-doo.” MARY KARR: Not my most Christian moment. BRENNAN O’DONNELL: She continues in the op-ed piece: “Distinguishing between fiction and non- isn’t nearly the taxing endeavor some would have us believe. Sexing a chicken is way harder. The nitty- gritty of it is that a novelist creates events for truthful interpretation, whereas the memoirist tries to honestly interpret events plagiarized from reality. And here’s how readers know the difference: the label slapped on the jacket of the book.” Which brings us to the topic of this evening’s conversation, “The Conscience of a Writer: Telling the Truth in Poetry and Memoir,” featuring Mary Karr.