Alberta Hansard

Province of Alberta

The 27th Legislature Fourth Session Alberta Hansard

Wednesday, March 23, 2011

Issue 18

The Honourable Kenneth R. Kowalski, Speaker

Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 27th Legislature Fourth Session Kowalski, Hon. Ken, Barrhead-Morinville-Westlock, Speaker Cao, Wayne C.N., Calgary-Fort, Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees Mitzel, Len, Cypress-Medicine Hat, Deputy Chair of Committees Ady, Hon. Cindy, Calgary-Shaw (PC) Klimchuk, Hon. Heather, Edmonton-Glenora (PC) Allred, Ken, St. Albert (PC) Knight, Hon. Mel, Grande Prairie-Smoky (PC) Amery, Moe, Calgary-East (PC) Leskiw, Genia, Bonnyville-Cold Lake (PC) Anderson, Rob, Airdrie-Chestermere (WA), Liepert, Hon. Ron, Calgary-West (PC) WA Opposition House Leader Lindsay, Fred, Stony Plain (PC) Benito, Carl, Edmonton-Mill Woods (PC) Lukaszuk, Hon. Thomas A., Edmonton-Castle Downs (PC), Berger, Evan, Livingstone-Macleod (PC) Deputy Government House Leader Bhardwaj, Naresh, Edmonton-Ellerslie (PC) Lund, Ty, Rocky Mountain House (PC) Bhullar, Manmeet Singh, Calgary-Montrose (PC) MacDonald, Hugh, Edmonton-Gold Bar (AL) Blackett, Hon. Lindsay, Calgary-North West (PC) Marz, Richard, Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills (PC) Blakeman, Laurie, Edmonton-Centre (AL), Mason, Brian, Edmonton-Highlands-Norwood (ND), Official Opposition House Leader Leader of the ND Opposition Boutilier, Guy C., Fort McMurray-Wood Buffalo (WA) McFarland, Barry, Little Bow (PC) Brown, Dr. Neil, QC, Calgary-Nose Hill (PC) McQueen, Diana, Drayton Valley-Calmar (PC) Calahasen, Pearl, Lesser Slave Lake (PC) Morton, F.L., Foothills-Rocky View (PC) Campbell, Robin, West Yellowhead (PC), Notley, Rachel, Edmonton-Strathcona (ND), Government Whip ND Opposition House Leader Chase, Harry B., Calgary-Varsity (AL), Oberle, Hon. Frank, Peace River (PC) Official Opposition Whip Olson, Hon. Verlyn, QC, Wetaskiwin-Camrose (PC), Dallas, Cal, Red Deer-South (PC) Deputy Government House Leader Danyluk, Hon. Ray, Lac La Biche-St. Paul (PC) Ouellette, Hon. Luke, Innisfail-Sylvan Lake (PC) DeLong, Alana, Calgary-Bow (PC) Pastoor, Bridget Brennan, Lethbridge-East (AL), Official Opposition Deputy Whip, Denis, Hon. Jonathan, QC, Calgary-Egmont (PC), Official Opposition Deputy Leader Deputy Government House Leader Prins, Ray, Lacombe-Ponoka (PC) Doerksen, Arno, Strathmore-Brooks (PC), Quest, Dave, Strathcona (PC) Deputy Government Whip Redford, Alison M., QC, Calgary-Elbow (PC) Drysdale, Wayne, Grande Prairie-Wapiti (PC) Renner, Hon. Rob, Medicine Hat (PC), Elniski, Doug, Edmonton-Calder (PC) Deputy Government House Leader Evans, Hon. Iris, Sherwood Park (PC) Rodney, Dave, Calgary-Lougheed (PC) Fawcett, Kyle, Calgary-North Hill (PC) Rogers, George, Leduc-Beaumont-Devon (PC) Forsyth, Heather, Calgary-Fish Creek (WA), Sandhu, Peter, Edmonton-Manning (PC) WA Opposition Whip Sarich, Janice, Edmonton-Decore (PC) Fritz, Hon. Yvonne, Calgary-Cross (PC) Sherman, Dr. Raj, Edmonton-Meadowlark (Ind) Goudreau, Hon. Hector G., Dunvegan-Central Peace (PC) Snelgrove, Hon. Lloyd, Vermilion-Lloydminster (PC) Griffiths, Doug, Battle River-Wainwright (PC) Stelmach, Hon. Ed, Fort Saskatchewan-Vegreville (PC), Groeneveld, George, Highwood (PC) Premier Hancock, Hon. Dave, QC, Edmonton-Whitemud (PC), Swann, Dr. David, Calgary-Mountain View (AL), Government House Leader Leader of the Official Opposition Hayden, Hon. Jack, Drumheller-Stettler (PC) Taft, Dr. Kevin, Edmonton-Riverview (AL) Hehr, Kent, Calgary-Buffalo (AL) Tarchuk, Janis, Banff-Cochrane (PC) Hinman, Paul, Calgary-Glenmore (WA), Taylor, Dave, Calgary-Currie (AB) WA Opposition Deputy Leader VanderBurg, George, Whitecourt-Ste. Anne (PC) Horne, Fred, Edmonton-Rutherford (PC) Vandermeer, Tony, Edmonton-Beverly-Clareview (PC) Horner, Doug, Spruce Grove-Sturgeon-St. Albert (PC) Weadick, Hon. Greg, Lethbridge-West (PC) Jablonski, Hon. Mary Anne, Red Deer-North (PC) Webber, Hon. Len, Calgary-Foothills (PC) Jacobs, Broyce, Cardston-Taber-Warner (PC) Woo-Paw, Teresa, Calgary-Mackay (PC) Johnson, Jeff, Athabasca-Redwater (PC) Xiao, David H., Edmonton-McClung (PC) Johnston, Art, Calgary-Hays (PC) Zwozdesky, Hon. Gene, Edmonton-Mill Creek (PC), Kang, Darshan S., Calgary-McCall (AL) Deputy Government House Leader

Officers and Officials of the Legislative Assembly Clerk W.J. David McNeil Parliamentary Counsel Stephanie LeBlanc Law Clerk/Director of Committee Research Co-ordinator Philip Massolin Interparliamentary Relations Robert H. Reynolds, QC Sergeant-at-Arms Brian G. Hodgson Senior Parliamentary Counsel/ Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms Chris Caughell Director of House Services Shannon Dean Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms Gordon H. Munk Manager – House Proceedings Micheline S. Gravel Managing Editor of Alberta Hansard Liz Sim

Party standings: Progressive Conservative: 67 Alberta Liberal: 8 Wildrose Alliance: 4 New Democrat: 2 Alberta: 1 Independent: 1 Executive Council Ed Stelmach Premier, President of Executive Council, Chair of Agenda and Priorities Committee, Vice-chair of Treasury Board, Liaison to the Canadian Armed Forces Lloyd Snelgrove President of the Treasury Board, Minister of Finance and Enterprise Dave Hancock Minister of Education, Political Minister for Edmonton Iris Evans Minister of International and Intergovernmental Relations Mel Knight Minister of Sustainable Resource Development Luke Ouellette Minister of Transportation Rob Renner Minister of Environment Verlyn Olson Minister of Justice and Attorney General Yvonne Fritz Minister of Children and Youth Services, Political Minister for Calgary Jack Hayden Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development, Political Minister for Rural Alberta Ray Danyluk Minister of Infrastructure Gene Zwozdesky Minister of Health and Wellness Ron Liepert Minister of Energy Mary Anne Jablonski Minister of Seniors and Community Supports Len Webber Minister of Aboriginal Relations Heather Klimchuk Minister of Service Alberta Lindsay Blackett Minister of Culture and Community Spirit Cindy Ady Minister of Tourism, Parks and Recreation Hector Goudreau Minister of Municipal Affairs Frank Oberle Solicitor General and Minister of Public Security Jonathan Denis Minister of Housing and Urban Affairs Thomas Lukaszuk Minister of Employment and Immigration Greg Weadick Minister of Advanced Education and Technology

Parliamentary Assistants Evan Berger Sustainable Resource Development Manmeet Singh Bhullar Municipal Affairs Cal Dallas Finance and Enterprise Fred Horne Health and Wellness Broyce Jacobs Agriculture and Rural Development Jeff Johnson Treasury Board (Oil Sands Sustainable Development Secretariat) Diana McQueen Energy Janice Sarich Education Teresa Woo-Paw Employment and Immigration

STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ALBERTA

Standing Committee on the Standing Committee on Standing Committee on the Standing Committee on Alberta Heritage Savings Community Services Economy Health Trust Fund Chair: Mr. Doerksen Chair: Mr. Bhardwaj Chair: Mr. McFarland Chair: Ms Tarchuk Deputy Chair: Mr. Hehr Deputy Chair: Mr. Chase Deputy Chair: Ms Pastoor Deputy Chair: Mr. Elniski Allred Amery Forsyth DeLong Anderson Dallas Griffiths Forsyth Benito Fawcett Groeneveld Groeneveld Bhullar Hinman Horne Johnston Chase Johnson Lindsay MacDonald Johnston Lund Notley Quest Notley Taft Quest Taft Rodney Tarchuk Sherman Sarich Taylor Swann Taylor Woo-Paw Vandermeer

Standing Committee on Special Standing Committee Standing Committee on Standing Committee on Legislative Offices on Members’ Services Private Bills Privileges and Elections, Chair: Mr. Mitzel Chair: Mr. Kowalski Chair: Dr. Brown Standing Orders and Printing Deputy Chair: Mr. Lund Deputy Chair: Mr. Campbell Deputy Chair: Ms Woo-Paw Chair: Mr. Prins Bhullar Amery Allred Kang Deputy Chair: Mr. Hancock Blakeman Anderson Benito Lindsay Campbell Bhullar Boutilier McQueen Amery Lindsay Hinman Elniski Calahasen Morton Berger McFarland Lindsay Hehr Dallas Redford Calahasen Mitzel MacDonald Leskiw Doerksen Sandhu DeLong Notley Marz Mason Drysdale Sarich Doerksen Pastoor Notley Pastoor Hinman Taft Forsyth Quest Quest Rogers Horner Xiao Groeneveld Sherman Rogers VanderBurg Jacobs Hinman Tarchuk Jacobs Taylor Leskiw

Standing Committee on Standing Committee on Standing Committee on Select Special Ombudsman Public Accounts Public Safety and Services Resources and Environment Search Committee Chair: Mr. MacDonald Chair: Mr. Drysdale Chair: Mr. Prins Chair: Mr. Mitzel Deputy Chair: Mr. Rodney Deputy Chair: Mr. Kang Deputy Chair: Ms Blakeman Deputy Chair: Mr. Lund Allred Griffiths Boutilier Anderson Blakeman Anderson Groeneveld Brown Berger Hinman Benito Kang Calahasen Boutilier Lindsay Calahasen Mason Cao Hehr Marz Chase Sandhu Forsyth Jacobs Notley Dallas Vandermeer Johnson Marz Quest Elniski Xiao MacDonald Mason Rogers

Fawcett Rogers McQueen

Sandhu Mitzel Xiao VanderBurg

March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 505

Legislative Assembly of Alberta just want to introduce her once again. I feel like I have to. Not Title: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:30 p.m. only is she the U of C Students’ Union president; she is beautiful, 1:30 p.m. Wednesday, March 23, 2011 and she has also just been awarded the 2011 student with distinction at the U of C along with her being the 2011 graduating class [The Speaker in the chair] valedictorian. So I am quite proud of my daughter. head: Prayers head: Members’ Statements

The Speaker: Good afternoon. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Montrose. Let us pray. We give thanks for the bounty of our province, our land, our resources, and our people. We pledge ourselves to act as Barlow Trail Underpass good stewards on behalf of all Albertans. Amen. Mr. Bhullar: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Next month Please be seated. when Barlow Trail at 48th Avenue N.E. closes so that a new runway and international terminal can be built at the airport, a whole head: Introduction of Guests new set of transportation issues will be faced by residents of The Speaker: The hon. Member for St. Albert. northeast Calgary as well as all Calgarians. It is estimated that the cost of the proposed underpass will be Mr. Allred: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It’s my $295 million. Of that figure, it is reported that Calgary will con- pleasure to rise today and introduce to you and through you to all tribute $25 million, and the balance, $270 million, will come from members of the Assembly 53 grade 6 students from l’école Father other government sources. It appears, Mr. Speaker, that the bulk Jan school in St. Albert. These students are accompanied by their of that funding will come from this government through MSI teachers, Julie Maisonneuve and Corinne Chan, and their parent funding. This government is producing results for the residents of helpers, Bruce Hoyt and Michelle Guest. I would ask them all to northeast Calgary. Airport passengers also help pay for the run- rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. way and terminal improvements through a $22 airport improvement fee per passenger charged by the authority. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Calder. The city of Calgary and the province are willing to do their part. It is the airport authority that needs to step up to the plate and make a Mr. Elniski: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s my pleasure to rise significant contribution to this project, which benefits all Calgarians. today and introduce to you and through you to all members of this Mr. Speaker, I understand that the airport authority and the city of Assembly 26 students from one of my favourite schools in the Calgary have many differing opinions on issues such as compensa- Edmonton-Calder constituency, and that’s Kensington school, one tion for the land. Media reports indicate that the airport authority that I can virtually see from my house. With us today, in addition wants $24.6 million for the land for the underpass. That is land that to the 26 students, are teachers Ms Keri Haskell and Miss Rebecca sits largely below the runway. That doesn’t make any sense to me. Yu. Of course, no mention of this particular class would be com- In addition, the authority wants to oblige the city to build inter- plete without mentioning my buddy Aziz. I’d ask them all to now changes and road improvements among many other matters. rise and receive the traditional warm greeting of the Assembly. Mr. Speaker, I encourage the authority to consider the overall Thank you. impact of the closure of Barlow Trail and the need for an underpass for all Calgarians and, indeed, all Albertans. As elected The Speaker: The hon. Member for Whitecourt-Ste. Anne. representatives we all try to do the right thing and move forward Mr. VanderBurg: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s a great privilege on initiatives that are in the best public interest. I encourage the and an honour to introduce 80 guests that we have here today from airport authority to do the same thing. Percy Baxter school. That’s three classrooms that have travelled The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. 200 kilometres to visit us today. I’d ask them to please rise and receive the warm welcome of this Assembly. Health Services Financial Reporting

The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Advanced Education and Mr. MacDonald: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. In order Technology. for any government to retain the trust and confidence of citizens, it must keep accurate records of its spending. Each expense must be Mr. Weadick: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s indeed a pleas- carefully accounted for so that taxpayers know their money is ure for me to rise today and introduce to you and through you to being used to benefit the public. Many Albertans are wondering if all members of this Assembly nine members of CAUS, the Coun- the government used taxpayers’ money to silence doctors con- cil of Alberta University Students. I had the privilege to spend a cerned by Progressive Conservative mismanagement of public little bit of time with the students last night and to hear some of health care. That’s why it’s more important than ever to ensure their issues and concerns. This is a bright group of students and that public money isn’t being used for nefarious purposes. very strong advocates for education in our province. I’d like them When hundreds of millions of dollars are hidden in mysterious to stand as I introduce them, and then we’ll give them the warm and vague categories such as other expenses, taxpayers have a welcome. They are Hardave Birk, Keith McLaughlin, Nick De- right to wonder exactly why the details of these expenses have hod, Lauren Webber, Taz Kassam, Aden Murphy, Zack Moline, been hidden. The books of the Capital health region, for example, Andrew Williams, and, last but not least, Duncan Wojtaszek. show $300 million in undisclosed expenses over seven years. I The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Aboriginal Relations. asked this government if any of that money was used to fund any of the settlements, lawsuits, or legal fees against doctors who Mr. Webber: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that this is appro- spoke out about government mismanagement of health care. Natu- priate. Although the hon. minister just introduced my daughter, I rally, these questions have been dodged. 506 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011

Last year Alberta Health Services hid another $42 million under The first is a brave and courageous Albertan, Lorraine Farmer. the “other fees” category. What was that money used for? The Lorraine was diagnosed with breast cancer in April of 2006. The government won’t say. Why were severance payments and out-of- treatment at the time resulted in an almost five-year cancer-free court settlements hidden somewhere in government books rather life. Unfortunately, the cancer returned as a walnut-sized tumour than identified according to good, transparent accounting prac- on the brain, and Lorraine was diagnosed and taken to hospital on tices? The government won’t say. March 4, 2011. She had surgery on March 6 and went home on Alberta taxpayers are proud of their public health care system. March 9, 2011. Lorraine is a fighter, and she checked herself out They want it to be there when they need it, and they want to be of the hospital early and went home to convalesce. From her sure that they’re getting good value for every penny of tax money original diagnosis Lorraine complimented the professionalism and that funds the system. I’m sure most Albertans would be outraged dedication of the doctors and nurses at High River and the Foot- if they were to discover that any of the tax money was being used hills hospital. Her entry and exit from the hospital was a very to silence doctors who were only trying to do their jobs. It’s time smooth transition. Lorraine believes that a positive attitude cou- for this government to come clean and provide truly open and pled with the best health care treatment in Canada contribute to transparent accounting for each and every dollar of funding that her ongoing recovery. She commented: we are blessed in Alberta goes through and towards public health care. to be living in a province that places such a high emphasis on Thank you. quality health care for our citizens. The second one. I received an e-mail from, Mary Phillipo, a The Speaker: The hon. Member for Whitecourt-Ste. Anne. recent arrival from Nova Scotia. She says that I have nothing but positive words to say about the Alberta Healthy Food Choices Healthcare system. A few months ago I had to schedule a mammogram and ultrasound. To my surprise my appointment Mr. VanderBurg: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today thou- was scheduled for the very next week. Typically, a person could sands of Albertans will buy their meals from one of Alberta’s wait up to two to three months for this same procedure in Nova restaurants, bars, cafés, or delis. Just last week the hon. Minister Scotia, which is where I’m from. I applaud the Alberta govern- of Health and Wellness pointed out that the food service industry ment for addressing the medical needs of Albertans. in Alberta is a $600 million a month business. Almost a quarter of Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Alberta’s youth are reported to be obese, Mr. Speaker. More than half of Alberta’s adults are overweight or obese. Albertans love to Health Care System Strengths eat out, but how can we help families and health-conscious citi- Mr. Benito: Mr. Speaker, we hear that Albertans receive excep- zens make healthy choices when eating out? tional care in our health care system across the province every The Heart and Stroke Foundation’s Health Check Alberta res- day, and that’s because we have talented and dedicated health taurant program is one answer to that problem, sir. The program professionals who are committed to delivering the best possible uses the familiar Health Check symbol that appears on thousands care right here in Alberta. of food products on store shelves and puts it next to menu items in You know what, Mr. Speaker? Health professionals across Can- participating restaurants that have been determined as healthy ada have recognized that Alberta is a great place to practise choices. Registered dieticians decide which foods get the Health medicine. The proof is in the numbers. This province has had the Check symbol based on criteria set out by the Canada food guide. highest percentage increase of physicians out of all the other prov- In addition to the logo the amount of calories, saturated fat, trans inces at 22.5 per cent from 2004 to 2008. fat, sodium, and fibre are listed for each approved menu item. The government has also committed to funding 367 seats in the Already the Health Check symbol appears on menus of larger University of Alberta and University of Calgary faculties of medi- chain restaurants like Boston Pizza, Swiss Chalet, Pizza Hut, Sec- cine, a 62 per cent increase from 2005. Residency positions have ond Cup, and the White Spot. also increased nearly 50 per cent in about the same time period, 1:40 Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was happy to see two Alberta-based restaurants, It’s not just physicians we are investing in; it is many of the SAGE Savouries and Husky House, join the program last Friday, front-line health workers such as nurses. Alberta Health Services and I hope that we see more restaurants join in the future. Ulti- has committed to hiring at least 70 per cent of our nursing gradu- mately, I hope that healthy meal options become something that ates. About 1,000 more registered nurse graduates will have jobs Albertans ask for when they go to their favourite eatery. Putting when they are finished their programs. One of those graduates is the familiar Health Check symbol on menus across Alberta will go my daughter, Mr. Speaker. The three-year collective agreement a long way in helping families make healthy choices when eating that Alberta Health Services signed with the United Nurses of out. It will contribute to the overall health of Albertans and will Alberta last year will ensure that our nurses remain among the best help the sustainability of our health system in the future. paid in the country so that we can keep them close to home. Thank you, sir. Mr. Speaker, we hear time and time again about the great care Albertans experience in our health care facilities. It is because The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Hays. these men and women love what they do . . . [Mr. Benito’s speaking time expired] Lorraine Farmer Mary Phillipo The Speaker: Thank you. The hon. Member for Airdrie-Chestermere. Mr. Johnston: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s a great pleasure and honour for me to rise today to recognize two ladies who were Integrated Ambulance Services in Airdrie hospitalized recently and had nothing but positive comments Mr. Anderson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last year Airdrie had about the treatment they received in our health care system. one of the most effective and efficient integrated ambulance and March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 507 fire services in the country. It was a prized, life-saving jewel of Bill Pr. 2 our city. And then came the Alberta superboard. When determined Galt Scholarship Fund Transfer Act by this government that AHS would manage provincial ambulance services, I was promised by the current Minister of Energy that Ms Pastoor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my pleasure to be able this would not mean Airdrie would lose its integrated service. In to rise and have leave to introduce Bill Pr. 2, the Galt Scholarship fact, he said Airdrie would benefit from the province picking up Fund Transfer Act. the cost. The Galt School of Nursing Alumnae Society of Alberta has Well, it turned out that wasn’t true. AHS, led by a reprehensible presented a petition requesting that the terms of the trust be modi- bureaucrat named Darren Sandbeck, would not enter into a con- fied and that the trust fund be transferred to the University of tract with Airdrie unless it complied with a litany of expensive Lethbridge and that the Galt scholarship fund be continued under upgrades that made keeping the service financially impossible. As this act. a member of the government I begged the now Energy minister to Mr. Speaker, this is some nurses from the Galt school of nursing intervene. He responded by paying a former PC cabinet buddy to who over a number of years have been putting money aside for unsuccessfully mediate the dispute. scholarships. The scholarships now going to that particular group After leaving the PCs, I pleaded with the current health minister have been decreasing, and they in their generosity are going to to intervene, as did the mayor, over and over again. We even had turn over a substantial amount of money to the University of him down to city council to personally brief him on the situation. Lethbridge for nursing scholarships. Nothing changed. After endless head-nodding, we were assured it Thank you. would be dealt with. Nothing was done. So we lost our integrated [Motion carried; Bill Pr. 2 read a first time] service, and in came the white knights at AHS to run our ambul- ances. head: Oral Question Period Last night I received a call informing me that AHS is now reporting a 33 per cent increase in Airdrie response times since the The Speaker: First Official Opposition main question. The hon. takeover. This means that someone suffering a heart attack will Leader of the Official Opposition. wait almost three minutes longer for life-saving treatment than they did prior to the takeover, increasing the risk of premature Patient Advocacy by Health Professionals death. The centralized superboard experiment has been a complete Dr. Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In 2000 Capital health re- failure, and I have no doubt that this government will receive this gion recruited top thoracic surgeon Dr. Tim Winton from the verdict from voters at the next election. But let me assure those University of Toronto. Dr. Winton took over as director of tho- involved with this Airdrie ambulance debacle that if we lose one racic surgery after Dr. Ciaran McNamee was pushed out of his job person in my community to premature death because of this infor speaking out for more patient resources. In turn, Dr. Winton is competence, I will personally ensure that those responsible are no longer the director of thoracic surgery and is now listed as a held accountable to the full extent of the law. On behalf of my university course co-ordinator. To the Premier: can the Premier constituents I demand that the health minister order AHS to get advise if Dr. Winton was pushed out of his position as head of those ambulance response times back to where they were prior to thoracic surgery in circumstances similar to Dr. McNamee? his superboard’s incompetent takeover. Failure to do so will have 1:50 very serious consequences. Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, if any physician, including those that were named by the member across, feels that in some way they Speaker’s Ruling have been hampered in what they brought forward to the board or Referring to Nonmembers bullied in some way and weren’t able to carry out their duties, feel The Speaker: Hon. members, the chair does not intervene in free, if they feel that way, to bring the evidence before the Health members’ statements, but, hon. Member for Airdrie-Chestermere, Quality Council. did I hear you name a person who is from outside of this House and use an adjective, I guess, in this case: reprehensible? Dr. Swann: Mr. Speaker, will the Premier take the necessary steps to grant immunity to Dr. Winton so that he can explain his Mr. Anderson: Absolutely, sir. And I stand by that comment. position without fear of retribution?

The Speaker: Fine. I just want to caution all members that it vio- Mr. Stelmach: One thing we know for sure is that anybody who lates the rules of the House when we refer to people who cannot appears before the Health Quality Council will have the protection defend themselves in this House. The hon. member might choose of the Alberta Evidence Act, and anything that they bring forward to wish to deal with this issue outside of the House rather than to the Health Quality Council will be kept in strict confidence. inside of the House. [interjections] Okay. [interjections] Airdrie-Chestermere, would you just cool it, please? If you want Dr. Swann: To the Premier: we’ll never know the truth about why to violate the rules in a member’s statement – I provided my Dr. Winton left his position without an independent judicial in- statement in here, have dealt with it in here. You can deal with it quiry, so will the Premier finally concede that it’s time to call an outside of the House now on your own. independent judge-led public inquiry? We’re going to continue with the Routine. Mr. Stelmach: As I’ve said countless times, the Health Quality Council is prepared to hear from all physicians and even nurses head: Introduction of Bills and anybody in our health care system that feels in some way that they’ve been bullied. They can bring that to the Health Quality The Speaker: The hon. Member for Lethbridge-East. Council. It’ll be held confidential. No one else will know in terms 508 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011 of what evidence they have brought to the Health Quality Council, Services’ reporting measures being entirely internal, with no out- and that is the best place for that. side oversight?

The Speaker: Second Official Opposition main question. The Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, I’m glad this member mentioned hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. this because yesterday he gave out such an inaccuracy so as to almost mislead people here. The compliance officer who looks Wait Times for Cancer Care after these kinds of issues was an employee of the health system up until 1997, and then she left until 2008, so she was not there in Dr. Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A recent medical journal the way this member suggested. But they do have a compliance article from The Lancet reports that the five-year survival rate for and ethics officer who is doing a very good job looking into these lung cancer in Alberta is only 15.1 per cent, the lowest of all prov- matters. Any matters that come up that belong over at the Health inces in the country. In response to the study a prominent thoracic Quality Council review will find their way over there surgeon from Harvard said, and I quote: this is irrefutable evidence by an impartial third party that Albertans suffer with cancer Dr. Swann: Given that Dr. Maybaum was told that, quote, there care. End quote. To the Premier: how can the Premier deny the were people high up in government who wanted his head on a connection between the country’s worst lung cancer survival rates platter, end quote, how would the ethics and compliance officer and the dismissal of these two prominent lung surgeons in Edmon- and the Alberta Health Services Board be able to do anything ton? about intimidation directly from the government?

Mr. Stelmach: If the hon. member believes that that is the reason, Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, we’ve made it very clear that then those two physicians that he named should appear before the we’re encouraging doctors to speak out in this way, and I’m glad Health Quality Council, and if it is true, what he said, then they they’re taking that opportunity. Now we’re encouraging them to should do it immediately. also take those issues to the independent review. I might add: an independent review that just named five very prominent people to Dr. Swann: Well, would the Premier agree with the assessment of its health advisory council, including the former Deputy Prime Dr. Ciaran McNamee that the third-party review here shows ir- Minister of Canada, including two highly respected doctors, in- refutable evidence that Albertans suffer with inadequate cancer cluding a cancer specialist from Calgary, and including a former care? Chief Justice of this province.

Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, as we’ve heard in this House, many The Speaker: The hon. leader. Albertans have had excellent cancer care. There are others, in terms of waiting times, that I know we’ve heard can be improved. Dr. Swann: Yes. Thank you. We’re not talking about who’s on That’s the purpose of the Health Quality Council, to see how we the committee; we’re talking about what their mandate is. can further decrease waiting times in emergency rooms, improve Given that Alberta Health Services’ internal reporting has no cancer care in the province. We’ve come a long way, but there is external oversight, given that the Health Quality Council review is always room for more improvement. behind closed doors, will the Premier now allow a public inquiry to uncover the truth about intimidation of health professionals? Dr. Swann: Given that the Premier has asked for evidence of unnecessary deaths and we are presenting it, will he finally ac- Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, once again, I want to make sure that knowledge that there is enough evidence supporting the any physicians that feel that they were intimidated in some way allegations from the Member for Edmonton-Meadowlark to call with fear of reprisal, whether it happened 15 years ago or it hap- for a full judicial inquiry? pened five days ago, take it to the Health Quality Council.

Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, once again, as I said, these physi- The Speaker: Hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre do you want to cians that were named can go immediately to the Health Quality lead a chorus? You keep singing a word. Council and present their evidence. That is the council that will The hon. Member for Calgary-Glenmore, followed by the hon. hear the evidence and will make recommendations to the govern- Member for Edmonton-Highlands-Norwood. ment. That report will be public. The first report will be released in three months, then in six months, and the full final report will Critical Electricity Transmission Infrastructure be done in nine months. Mr. Hinman: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the last month we’ve The Speaker: Third Official Opposition main question. The hon. been focused on what is likely the biggest ethical scandal in this Leader of the Official Opposition. province’s history, the intimidation of health care professionals. But as this government ducks and denies while this issue burns, Patient Advocacy by Health Professionals it’s full steam ahead on what’s surely the biggest financial scandal (continued) in Alberta’s history, Bill 50 and the $16 billion overbuild of our electrical system. To the Premier: given that this will surely tar- Dr. Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. These Tories talk a great nish your legacy, will you do the honourable thing and call for an deal about, quote, helping doctors advocate for their patients and independent needs assessment before sticking Albertans with a tab turning the page. End quote. While it’s nice to see their tacit ad- that will take them decades to pay? mission that there was a culture of fear and intimidation in the past, there has actually been no improvement to the process by Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, there was an independent review. which doctors can speak up. As seen in the Alberta Health Ser- The review began back in 2001. Over 300 meetings were held. vices safe disclosure policy, every route for raising concerns ends Many Albertans presented evidence in terms of the need for up in the hands of their ethics and compliance officer. To the Pre- transmission into the province of Alberta. We haven’t seen any mier: does the Premier see any problem with Alberta Health improvement for the last 30 years. In that 30 years our population March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 509 has doubled. As a result, the system is strained, and we have to there on that side plus Gary Mar, who’s seeking the PC leadership, improve the transmission system. who collectively bear responsibility for the culture of intimidation that we’re now seeing, will the Premier please say whether or not Mr. Hinman: Mr. Speaker, it’s 2011, not 2001. Things have this government accepts responsibility for the mess that the health changed. care system is now in? If not, who is it? Given that the government nullified the real purpose of the AUC when they passed Bill 50 in order to eliminate the most im- Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, as we heard in the House from many portant step, a needs assessment, will the Premier do the of our members, our system is not in a mess. It is better funded honourable thing and repeal Bill 50 and let the AUC decide just than others in the province. We’ve attracted more doctors to this what size of power lines we actually need before it’s too late? province than any province in Canada. We remain committed to train 2,000 more nurses by 2012, and we will meet that goal plus Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, there is an authority that listened to over 300 new physician positions in the province of Alberta. Albertans and determined need. In fact, even during the recession Compared to other provinces, we’ve taken a leadership role, and they were out .1 per cent in their projections. We’re seeing energy we’re committed to meeting those goals. consumption, electricity, grow by 3 per cent a year. The first build-out will be about $4 billion, depending on what the tenders Mr. Mason: Mr. Speaker, given that all of the indications are that will be. Roughly speaking, that’s $1 for every $1 billion invested the health care system is actually getting worse – waiting times are in the infrastructure. getting worse in a number of areas – and given the collective responsibility of this government for the culture of intimidation that Mr. Hinman: Completely out of touch and misunderstanding the we’ve seen, will he ask the former ministers of health, including situation. Gary Mar, the leadership candidate, to appear before the Health Given that multiple studies and business groups like IPCCAA Quality Council and give their account of what went wrong? are telling you that monstrous overbuild will drive up electrical prices so much that Alberta will lose businesses and jobs and that Mr. Stelmach: I guess he missed some of the latest interviews out voters are outraged about having to pay jacked up power prices for there. Anybody that was asked by the media in terms of former decades, why are you so stubbornly clinging to this untendered ministers, anybody in government said: sure; if the Health Quality backroom deal? It’s just wrong, Premier. It’s wrong. Council calls us, we’ll be glad to give any sort of evidence that they wish. Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, here are the facts. In British Colum- bia B.C. Hydro is looking at increasing their electricity rates 30 The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Currie. per cent over the next three years and 52 per cent by 2015. That group over there is advocating us building more natural gas elec- Health Quality Council Review tricity generation. Sounds great at $4 gas. But I can tell you that $4 gas and today’s coal-priced electricity are about the same. As Mr. Taylor: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I’ve been going gas increases to $6, I wonder if they’re going to stand up and de- over the terms of reference for the Health Quality Council’s re- fend Albertans for . . . view. You know, maybe it’s just because I can’t get last week’s charge that the council has engaged in junk science out of my The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands- mind, but I’m finding discrepancies. For instance, there’s a prom- Norwood. ise to look into the possibility that the safety and quality of care of 250 cancer patients was seriously compromised by a delay in sur- 2:00 Health Care System gery “as alleged in a document tabled in the Alberta Legislature on February 28, 2011.” Assembly documents and records show no Mr. Mason: Thanks very much. Mr. Speaker, the health minister such tabling. wishes the opposition would forget about the past and just look to the future. But, you know, those who do not learn from the mistakes The Speaker: Okay. We need a question. of the past are condemned to repeat the mistakes again and again. This could be this government’s motto. I want to ask the Premier: Mr. Taylor: To the Premier. Given the Health Quality Council’s will he admit the PC government’s responsibility for the health care terms of reference refer to a nonexistent document, how can a mess we find ourselves in, including the culture of intimidation, and skeptical public . . . if not, tell us who is responsible? Is it doctors? Is it . . . The Speaker: If you want to respond, hon. Premier. The Speaker: The hon. the Premier. Mr. Stelmach: I’m not quite sure what the hon. member is driv- Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, once again, if there is any fear, if any ing at, but as I said before, the Health Quality Council will listen physician feels that there has been some intimidation, then the to anyone who comes forward with evidence and ideas and maybe door is open to appear before the Health Quality Council. Today gives some history in terms of how we did operate in the past, we heard very eminent members from Alberta appointed as advi- how we can improve in the future in terms of new funding, getting sory members, a lot of experience in the law. It’s not very often better value for their dollars. All of that is on the table. you have a former Deputy Prime Minister appointed to a commit- The Speaker: The hon. member. tee or the former Chief Justice of Alberta appointed to a committee. That is simply outstanding. Mr. Taylor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again to the Premier: given that the council’s terms of reference limit the review to the years The Speaker: The hon. member. 2003 to 2006, when the period in question begins with Dr. Mr. Mason: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Well, given that McNamee’s patients in 1999, how is the Health Quality Council there’s a whole string of former health ministers still sitting over going to adequately investigate these allegations in any depth? 510 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011

Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, the items referred to were those Mr. Lukaszuk: Well, Mr. Speaker, as we realize, a great percent- that had been tabled in this Assembly, and the tablings covered age of this economic boom that’s definitely on the horizon will two essential areas. One of them was the impact of wait times on happen in northern Alberta. We have now divided enforcement of emergency care, and the other, which I think was a single docu- occupational health and safety into three zones, the Fort ment, was wait times with respect to cancer care. So based on McMurray-Wood Buffalo area being one of them. We have also what was tabled, that’s part of what I assume governed the terms dedicated officers to that particular region. Not only will they of reference that were developed independently by the HQCA. become more acquainted with the industry, but they will develop better relationships with workers and employers, so their efficacy Mr. Taylor: Well, Mr. Speaker, those documents certainly weren’t in enforcing occupational health and safety will be much im- tabled on the 28th of February 2011. Again to the Premier: given proved. that the Health Quality Council is unable to even determine where it needs to look, will the Premier commission an independent, fully The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity, followed by independent, judge-led inquiry into these allegations? the hon. Member for Calgary-Mackay.

Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, as I said before, the Health Quality Calgary Board of Education Council has very rigorous and robust terms of reference, and they can go back as far as they want. They can listen to any evidence that Mr. Chase: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday we learned that they want. They can call anybody to deliver the evidence. As I said, the Calgary board of education is facing a $61.7 million budget if some of these issues go back 15 years, come forward. If you’ve shortfall and is looking to cut 172 support staff in addition to over got some issue five days ago, come forward. They’re there to listen. a hundred more teachers. The Learning Commission’s reduced class size initiative has become a rapidly fading memory. To the The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Calder, followed Premier: why did the province create tax room for municipalities by the hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity. by lowering the education property tax rate but won’t return to school boards the autonomy to collect and locally determine how Occupational Health and Safety best to use their educational portion of the property tax?

Mr. Elniski: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Flint Energy Services has Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, what the province did with respect to announced recently that they’re looking for about an additional the education property tax is what we promised to do 10 years ago thousand people for their mod yard, so it looks like we’re once and have been doing consistently ever since. We’ve maintained again on the verge of the economy heating up. Considerable eco- the assessment for education property tax, increasing it by the nomic growth means more jobs, more work, and more money in amount of real growth in assessment but not increasing it by the the jeans of Albertans, which, obviously, is pretty good news. My amount of inflationary growth. So we’ve increased it annually questions are to the Minister of Employment and Immigration. from the amount that it was frozen at 10 years ago. We are captur- What are you doing to ensure that the rate and volume of work ing that across the province. As it applies to assessment bases in increases and the workplace safety remains uncompromised? each individual municipality, it provides for some differences.

Mr. Lukaszuk: Well, Mr. Speaker, the importance of occupa- The Speaker: The hon. member. tional health and safety and keeping our job sites does not fluctuate with economic activity. Our workers, our employers, and Mr. Chase: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Minister of Educa- the government of Alberta are fully committed to making sure that tion: will the minister cover the Calgary board of education’s no matter how busy or how slow our economy may happen to be, budget shortfall this year given that the province helped to close a we will enforce safe workplaces in this province. similar funding gap last year? 2:10 The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, the difference between this year and Mr. Elniski: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Given that we rec- last year is that last year I informed boards at the time of the ognize that it is in fact a shared responsibility, what specifically is budget they could expect the government to fulfill the commit- occupational health and safety doing to prepare for the increased ment to the 2.92 per cent increase because it hadn’t been known at activity? the time of the budget that that was the amount, and we actually did that. The fact the boards went through a budgeting process, Mr. Lukaszuk: Well, Mr. Speaker, as many Albertans may know, ignoring that advice, was not in accordance with the advice that I over the last year or so we have developed a 15-point plan on had given them. This year we put the 4.4 per cent increase to op- enforcing occupational health and safety, somewhat shifting the erating grants into the budget, but in fact there was not enough balance from education to enforcement. We have hired some 52 increase in the budget to cover all the issues that needed to be per cent more officers over this and the next fiscal budget, so defi- covered; therefore, I had to cut back on certain targeted grants. nitely there has been a great deal of attention both on policy and on enforcement of occupational health and safety. The Speaker: The hon. member.

The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Chase: Thank you. Support staff, AISI, special needs: all gone. Given that the process of constantly underfunding school Mr. Elniski: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My final question. As boards and then inconsistently bailing them out is counterproduc- much as I endorse the emphasis on northern Alberta, it’s undeni- tive, hugely disruptive, and creates ongoing uncertainty for able that the cost of living in Fort McMurray is extremely high, so students, parents, and teachers alike, is your real plan this year to specifically, Minister, what’s being done to help the OH and S force all school boards to drain what, if anything, remains of their officers that are living there? surpluses? March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 511

Mr. Hancock: No, Mr. Speaker, that’s not the plan. But it Mr. Hancock: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. That’s a very im- wouldn’t be a bad idea for school boards first to look at their ac- portant question. I wanted to add to my earlier answer that while cumulated operating surpluses. After all, that is money that was we’re putting in place the oversight and the co-ordination, the granted to school boards to fund today’s education with today’s project team is actually engaging in a number of pilot projects dollars. I know the school boards have saved money for various with divisions across the province and implementing on the purposes, but when they have money in an operating surplus ac- ground. That’s part of the story, to share that work with others count, and when we have a tough fiscal budget like we have this across the province, to let people know what projects are on, to year, it is a very good year to look at your operating surpluses have them go to the website and see what’s going on with it, and before you look at cutting staff. to send out communications to the people who are involved, the 7,000 Albertans that were involved in the consultation in the first The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-MacKay, followed place, to let them know that progress is happening. by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. Health Services Financial Reporting Special-needs Education Funding Mr. MacDonald: Over a seven-year period between 2003 and Ms Woo-Paw: Mr. Speaker, on June 11 last year the ministers of 2009 Capital health listed under other expenses in their annual Education, Health and Wellness, and Children and Youth Services reports over $300 million. I asked questions to the minister of announced the Setting the Direction Framework: Government of health on this two weeks ago, and I’m disappointed, Mr. Speaker. Alberta Response. I was able to attend that event. Since I have I have yet to receive an answer. My first question is to the minister heard from principals, teachers, parents, and community members of health. What efforts has the minister made in the last two weeks that support and services are difficult to access, that schools have to provide a detailed list of all those expenditures that went out limited capacity to provide appropriate programming, and children under other expenses? and youth with some of the most challenging issues are compromised, my questions are to the ministers of Education and Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, the first effort I made was to ap- Children and Youth Services. To the Minister of Education: what peal to this member to put this question to the proper process, progress is your ministry making in implementing . . . which he knows very well. There is a thing called Motions for Returns, and there is a thing where he knows very well that he’s The Speaker: The hon. minister. allowed to put a question forward through his own group, that he chairs. Mr. Hancock: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Progress has been slow, but it’s very important that it be done thoroughly because Mr. MacDonald: Point of order. we’re talking about a real culture shift in the way that we do this. First and foremost, we’ve worked internally within government, Mr. Zwozdesky: But the point here is that the Auditor General bringing together primarily the three departments of Health, Chil- has indicated that the predecessor organizations to AHS had their dren and Youth Services, and Education but also other own individualized accounting systems. That resulted in some departments involved, to make sure that we align our approach classifications of their own unique findings. That’s the answer. within government. Secondly, we’ve now set up the inclusive education provincial advisory committee, that was part of the Mr. MacDonald: Mr. Speaker, yes, I did raise a point of order. process. That will bring stakeholder groups together to provide Again to the same minister: why did the government allow oversight and advice on the implementation. Capital health to hide $300 million in expenses when other re- gions were required and did on a voluntary basis list all their Ms Woo-Paw: To the Minister of Children and Youth Services. expenses? What is this government hiding? People in the system are telling me that one of the barriers to im- proving support for these children is around the lack of Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, I hope the hon. member will read communication from Children’s Services. Has the ministry identi- what he just said because I’m sure he didn’t mean it. fied this as a barrier? If so, what is the plan and current status for Nobody has hidden anything. The fact is that the Auditor Gen- addressing the issue? eral has audited all of these findings. Let me just quote to you what the Auditor General said in the October 2010 report that he Mrs. Fritz: Well, Mr. Speaker, as a result of the success in school issued: “The predecessor organizations had different policies and initiative for our children and youth in care, we have developed a processes for their financial operations. AHS staff identified some new protocol, and that protocol ensures, as the minister had indi- of these areas, such as capital assets and financial instruments, and cated earlier, that our educators, our caregivers, our caseworkers made conforming changes.” There you have it. work together on behalf of our children and youth in need. The good news that we have about this and what’s important that you Mr. MacDonald: Again, Mr. Speaker, to the same minister: will know is that our children and youth are directly involved in devel- the minister list for the interest of taxpayers the complete details oping their educational plans and that ensures their voices are of the $300 million that Capital health spent between 2003 and heard. 2009 and conveniently hid in the Other column of their annual report? List it. The Speaker: The hon. member, please. Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, again I say that that is a very offen- Ms Woo-Paw: Thank you. Back to the Minister of Education: sive allegation. Nobody hid anything. The monies are all there. what is your ministry doing to broaden community engagement They were properly accounted for. The Auditor General himself and inform Albertans about its work so that we can engage sectors signed off on it. If there are more details, he’s got Written Questions to work together to meet these children’s needs? and Motions for Returns, and he also has the Public Accounts Committee through which he can ask those detailed questions. The Speaker: The hon. minister. 512 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011

The Speaker: The hon. Member for Bonnyville-Cold Lake, fol- 2:20 lowed by the hon. Member for Fort McMurray-Wood Buffalo. Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, I think the record will show very clearly that I as minister of health with the support of the Premier Aids to Daily Living Program and all of these colleagues have done a great deal to improve Mrs. Leskiw: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know that our govern- health outcomes in this province. I think the record will also show ment has a number of programs that provide support to Albertans that we have demonstrated that in a number of ways: for example, with disabilities and to seniors. My constituents are asking me the first province ever – ever – to have a five-year funding com- about the assistance the government provides for other necessities. mitment; the first province ever to have a five-year health action My questions are to the Minister of Seniors and Community Sup- plan; the first province ever to have a suite of 50 performance ports. It appears that the budget for the AADL program has measures to help hold the system accountable. increased. Does this increase translate to more support for the The Speaker: The hon. member. average Albertan? Mr. Boutilier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Given that nonresponse – Mrs. Jablonski: Mr. Speaker, the AADL program helps approxi- and there is a difference. Given the fact the minister of health said, mately 85,000 Albertans to obtain health-related supports such as “I’m going to take a walk in the snow,” there’s a difference be- hearing aids, medical and surgical supports, wheelchairs and mo- tween taking a walk in the snow and a head in the snow. To the bility aids, and respiratory equipment. The budget is $124 million. minister: will he resign and get on with what he’s really doing It’s an increase of $5 million over last year, and most of this today in seeking the leadership? money goes to the caseload growth that we will see in AADL. These health-related benefits assist people who have a long-term Mr. Zwozdesky: Oh boy. I can see where this would-be leader is disability, a terminal illness, or a chronic illness to receive the going with his own party. That’s very, very clear. I think your own supports that they need to maintain their independence. leader is probably a little bit nervous about your aspirations, hon. member, not to be outdone by Airdrie-Chestermere, of course. I Mrs. Leskiw: To the same minister. My senior constituents want think I’ll just leave it there for now, Mr. Speaker. to stay in their homes longer. Is there anything in her department budget this year that supports this? Mr. Boutilier: Mr. Speaker, given the nonresponse and given the fact the minister clearly has his eye on other things than health Mrs. Jablonski: Mr. Speaker, our ministry’s budget this year care, will he do the right thing for the benefit of all Albertans and included increases to maintain programs and services that help officially resign his post so he can officially run for the PC leader- seniors in their home. Programs like the Alberta seniors’ benefit, ship, like others are doing, and not collect the cabinet salary? the education property tax assistance program, and special-needs assistance for seniors help them to remain as independent as pos- Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, I’ve indicated very clearly that I sible. Funding for these and other seniors’ programs has increased am focused and riveted on health care. We have a great health care this year in my budget by $15 million. system. My job is to make it better, and I’m getting good help doing that. Mrs. Leskiw: My final question to the same minister: does her Thank you. department’s 2011 budget provide any additional benefits for dental and optical needs for my seniors? The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-McCall, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie. Mrs. Jablonski: Mr. Speaker, the total budget for Seniors and Community Supports is $425 million. That does include an in- Penhorwood Apartment Evacuations crease to the seniors’ optical and dental program to assist those that are coming into the program. As you know, there are 2,000 Mr. Kang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Shoddy construction prac- more seniors in Alberta each month, but more than 209,000 low- tices have consequences. The residents of Fort McMurray’s and moderate-income seniors are eligible for this assistance for Penhorwood condos were not only forced out of their homes in the dental supports and for prescription eyeglasses. I’m proud to say middle of the night and given 15 minutes to collect their belong- that Alberta is one of the very few provinces that has this sort of ings, but many are now homeless. To the Minister of Municipal program for our seniors. Affairs. Homeless evacuees are now relying on Children’s Ser- vices for support. Would the minister agree that having some The Speaker: The hon. Member for Fort McMurray-Wood building regulations beats providing emergency housing? Buffalo, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-McCall. Mr. Goudreau: Mr. Speaker, we are in constant touch with the Minister of Health and Wellness municipality of Fort McMurray. I want to indicate that they’ve established a task force, and they are dealing with individuals Mr. Boutilier: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, on this beauti- there. Those individuals that have had some issues in terms of ful spring day. When asked if he would resign from cabinet and finding additional accommodations or financial support, if they announce a bid for the PC leadership, the health minister said that require help, are being helped through the offices of the Ministry there was too much going on his portfolio to announce. Indeed, of Employment and Immigration. So they are being looked after. there’s lots going on in health care. So far, though, the health minister has utterly failed to do anything about any of these issues. He The Speaker: The hon. member. won’t dismantle the failed superboard, he won’t discipline health officials for threatening doctors and nurses, and he won’t call a Mr. Kang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The help is not coming fast public inquiry. To the minister of health . . . enough. To the minister again. Forty per cent of those Penhorwood resi- The Speaker: The hon. minister. dents bought these condos confident that this province has March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 513 standards and that the standards are enforced. What would the rights branch. This involves 10 to 15 individuals from the Somali minister advise these owners about losing their homes and their community receiving training and leadership development and savings? monitoring skills that support community involvement, civic par- ticipation, and academic excellence. In essence, they’re being Mr. Goudreau: Mr. Speaker, we recognize that there are 52 taught to be leaders. They’re going to go back into their commu- condo unit owners. Those individuals are being given similar as- nity and help those other individuals become better participating sistance as renters. There is a legal action that has commenced, citizens and feel more inclusive in their communities. and this is in the courts. I would suspect that the courts will make those decisions as to who might be liable in this case for addi- The Speaker: The hon. member. tional support. Mr. Bhardwaj: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My final Mr. Kang: You know, that’s very good help, Mr. Speaker. Condo question to the same minister: what concrete measures has your owners suffer while they go through a legal process. ministry taken at reducing discrimination and encouraging a di- To the minister again. Municipal Affairs is responsible not only verse and inclusive society? for building standards but also for emergency management. So how is the minister assisting the municipality in helping the vic- Mr. Blackett: Well, it’s always hard to quantify that, but I know tims in this emergency? from the performance measures that we looked at a year ago, 89 per cent of the people of Alberta say that they feel that they are Mr. Goudreau: Mr. Speaker, the Safety Codes Council is respon- protected against discrimination. That’s something that we all sible for accrediting municipalities, corporations, and agencies have to work on, Mr. Speaker. That’s something we all have to be that sell permits and carry out work under those particular permits. vigilant on, not just government. Those are individual Albertans, The municipality is at liberty to choose those individuals that will those are the private sector, those are our organizations that we do the inspections on their behalf. They indicate to me that support, and all of us in this House. We have to be vigilant on that. they’ve got a better reach and they can do more inspections. They’re closer to development issues, and they are closer to resi- Speaker’s Ruling dents. So the municipalities themselves are managing the Anticipation inspection process. The Speaker: Hon. members, one of our traditions is that we The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie, followed don’t really ask questions of a minister if his department estimates by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. are coming up that particular day, and in this case they are. That was very close to the edge. I feel rather uncomfortable about that, Protection against Discrimination so I will intervene in the future. The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre, followed by the hon. Mr. Bhardwaj: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. This gov- Member for St. Albert. ernment prides itself on promoting equality, fairness, and an atmosphere where people of all backgrounds feel welcome, safe, Provincial Environmental Monitoring Panel and respected. Unfortunately, not every visible minority in our province experiences such an environment. My questions are to Ms Blakeman: Thanks very much, Mr. Speaker. The Environ- the Minister of Culture and Community Spirit. What measures ment minister insists that the appointment to the water panel of a does your ministry have in place to ensure that the rights of minor- self-described best friend of the Prime Minister was based on ex- ity are protected and will continue to be fully protected? pertise, not political connections, but it is difficult to find confirmation that this individual had specific expertise on water The Speaker: Minister, your estimates are up in about 35 minutes beyond his part in helping to create the Canada School of Energy from now, so stay away from budgetary answers. Just deal with and Environment and his subsequent appointment as head of that policy, please. school. To the minister: can the minister point to any actual working expertise in water matters of this person? Mr. Blackett: Mr. Speaker, we have the Alberta human rights act, that protects minorities against discrimination for employment, for Mr. Renner: Mr. Speaker, the representatives that are on that accommodation, for government services. We have the human panel bring a number of different skills and assets to the panel. We rights, citizenship and multiculturalism fund that funds organiza- have scientific expertise; we have people that have a business tions who help educate organizations and different community background that have been involved with the business side. In this groups as well as employers on their rights and their rights to one particular case, as I’ve indicated, in his capacity as executive di- another. Mr. Speaker, this is something the government can’t do rector of the Canada School of Energy and Environment, Mr. by itself. We need partnerships like CMARD, the Coalition of Carson brings to the committee his knowledge and expertise with Municipalities against Racism and Discrimination. working . . .

The Speaker: The hon. member. The Speaker: The hon. member, please.

Mr. Bhardwaj: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My next Ms Blakeman: He has no direct water experience. question to the same minister: in what ways do programs specifi- Back to the same minister. If there was a background search cally educate youth on the harmful effects of racism and done prior to this person’s appointment to the water panel, then discrimination? how is the minister unaware of both a criminal record for fraud and a professional disbarment? Mr. Blackett: Well, Mr. Speaker, a program was developed by the Alberta Somali Community Centre and supported by our de- Mr. Renner: Mr. Speaker, let me once again remind this member partment, the Alberta Culture and Community Spirit’s human that the purpose of this panel is not water. This is to be bringing 514 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011 forward a world-class monitoring system that will bring all media Mr. Allred: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Following that, to the same together: water, air, land, and biodiversity. Each member of the minister: will the minister be reinstating grants and bursaries once panel is expected to bring various forms of expertise to bring all of the economy picks up? this together. The Speaker: The hon. minister. 2:30 Ms Blakeman: Back to the same minister: why hasn’t this gov- Mr. Weadick: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As you know, last year ernment proclaimed the Alberta Public Agencies Governance Act we did reduce the number of grants and bursaries and put that as this act would likely have excluded this same panel member funding towards loans, which would allow us to increase the num- from ever being appointed in the first place? He has no expertise ber of student loans. That number has increased to almost 58,000 in these areas. students, or 30 per cent of our student body, receiving loans last year. We do believe that bursaries and grants are important to the Mr. Renner: Mr. Speaker, I beg to differ. I believe that the people system, and we would like to continue to look at ways to increase that are on this panel were brought into the panel for different scholarships, grants, and bursaries. expertise in different areas. Some have a scientific background, some have a business background, and some have a background in The Speaker: The hon. Member for Lethbridge-East, followed by being able to liaise and bring forward complementary research in the hon. Member for Drayton Valley-Calmar. other areas. So I disagree with the premise that the member brings forward. Residential Building Code

The Speaker: The hon. Member for St. Albert, followed by the Ms Pastoor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s often been said that hon. Member for Lethbridge-East. during boom times builders will pretty much hire anybody who can swing a hammer. Consequently, many people believe that as Grants and Bursaries for Postsecondary Education the economy ramps up, residential construction quality tends to diminish. To the Minister of Municipal Affairs: given the oil Mr. Allred: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. With the patch’s propensity to draw away those who might otherwise con- cap on tuition fee increases at Alberta’s postsecondary educational sider working in the construction trades, particularly during boom institutions several institutions are getting around the cap by im- times, can the minister guarantee that new residential construction posing noninstructional fees for such ridiculous things as snow is always being done by properly trained tradespeople? removal and registration services. To the minister of advanced education: what plans do you have to limit the imposition of non- The Speaker: Normally questions that have the word “guarantee” instructional fees by postsecondary educational institutions? are ruled out, but proceed.

The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Advanced Education and Mr. Goudreau: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. We continue to Technology. work with industry, and I guess there are a number of different ministers that are working with that particular industry to ensure Mr. Weadick: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to thank this that individuals are qualified. There’s the minister of advanced member and others in the House for meeting with members of education, who is responsible for some of the trades that come CAUS this week and hearing some of their concerns. This is one through. We are responsible through the building codes to make of the concerns that the students have brought forward, maybe sure that certain things are met. There are a number of individuals their most important concern, that some schools are looking at that do work with industry and trade to ensure that the construc- opportunities to go around the tuition fee cap by imposing other tion . . . fees. We believe that this is a very serious issue. We’re going to continue to work with the students and look for a solution to this. The Speaker: The hon. member.

The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Pastoor: Thank you. Apparently, it’s not really that successful. Mr. Allred: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again to the same minister: Given that a key recommendation of the ministry’s April 2008 given that student debt has increased dramatically in the past few Building Envelope Survey was that the government should en- years, how are students expected to manage their growing debt? hance consumer protection and recourse relative to the building code, why is it that Albertans are still having to cope with inade- The Speaker: The hon. minister. quate protection? I think Fort McMurray is a huge example.

Mr. Weadick: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The good news is that Mr. Goudreau: Mr. Speaker, we continue to take steps to im- student debt last year for graduating students averaged about prove both residential and industrial construction. We are working $16,000 per student for government debt. This can be an amount on an approach that includes enforcement, education, consumer that’s difficult to manage, but we do have programs in place for protection, and recourse to deal with concerns about buildings and remittance. Loans are offered at prime rate of interest for students. building envelopes. There’s a six-month period after they graduate before they have to start paying. For students that are in really difficult positions, we Ms Pastoor: Thank you for that, Mr. Minister. What other have a RAP program, which allows them to negotiate a better changes is the minister contemplating that would better protect payment schedule to allow them to be successful. Albertans from shoddy construction practices but also address the unique challenge of anticipated overheated-construction employee The Speaker: The hon. member. shortages? March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 515

Mr. Goudreau: Mr. Speaker, we recognize that buildings are ble for providing core services for their citizens, and the province often the single biggest investment that most Albertans make. We provides them with many levels of support. My question to the want to make sure that they are built to the standards that Alber- Minister of Municipal Affairs: to this point in 2011 how much tans expect and deserve. As I indicated in my previous answer, we MSI funding have municipalities received? will continue to take the steps that are needed to improve construction practices. Mr. Goudreau: Mr. Speaker, since 2007 MSI has provided $2.2 billion in long-term funding to help municipalities meet the de- The Speaker: The hon. Member for Drayton Valley-Calmar, mands of growth and sustainability. Again, those numbers followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Mill Woods. constantly increase. The allocations are based on a formula developed in consultation with over 450 municipal representatives. Women in Postsecondary Education The Speaker: The hon. member. Mrs. McQueen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Lately we’ve been hearing about the underrepresentation of women in our work- Mr. Prins: Thank you again. Some municipalities claim that they places and in positions of power. We’ve been hearing about are receiving less MSI this year than last. What are the criteria for inequities and barriers that continue to hold many women back. funding each municipality? As a mother of four daughters my questions today are for the Min- Mr. Goudreau: Mr. Speaker, first, each municipality receives the ister of Advanced Education and Technology. Postsecondary base funding of $120,000 per year except for summer villages, education can open so many doors. Can the minister tell us: are which receive $60,000. Also, there’s $15 million per year in sus- women also underrepresented on Alberta’s campuses? tainable investment funding, and that’s divided between The Speaker: The hon. minister. municipalities with populations below 10,000 and limited local assessment. The vast majority of the funding, 48 per cent, is allo- Mr. Weadick: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am happy to stand and cated on a population base, 48 per cent on the education tax answer the member on this. Right now in our institutions 6 out of requisition, and another 4 per cent on kilometres of local roads. So every 10, 60 per cent, of all certificates, diplomas, or degrees are it’s meant to address the needs of all municipalities. granted to women. They are having a significant impact. In the 2:40 fields of engineering, medicine, and science we have more women registered than men in these programs, so it’s a great step forward. The Speaker: The hon. member.

The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Prins: Well, thank you again. My last question to the same minister: do MSI amounts in all municipalities increase at the Mrs. McQueen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again to the same min- same rate? ister. I’m glad to hear that. Can you also tell me: are women making the same progress when it comes to pursuing apprentice- Mr. Goudreau: Mr. Speaker, decreases or increases are due to ships and careers in the trades? annual changes in the municipality’s proportion of population, education tax requisition, or kilometres of road compared to the The Speaker: The hon. minister. provincial total. In addition, some communities may see changes in their as- Mr. Weadick: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m pleased to say that sessment base, again in relationship to the provincial average, we are having some impact on women in the trades. Right now which could in turn reduce the sustainable investment funding that almost 10 per cent of our tradespeople that are in apprenticeship they receive. This sustainable investment provides additional sup- are women; however, it’s not as much as we would like. The port for those with a low property tax base in relation to their numbers have grown. In 2005 there were 3,900 women. Now we population. This funding is then redirected among those munici- have 5,600 women registered in apprenticeship training. palities that are eligible for sustainable investment funding.

Mrs. McQueen: Finally, to the same minister. You’ve got some The Speaker: Hon. members, 19 members were recognized to- good news there, but you’ve got a whole lot of work to do on that. day, with 114 questions and responses. What is your ministry doing to increase the number of women in In a few seconds now we will continue with the Routine. We Alberta’s trades? are at the Introduction of Bills stage.

The Speaker: The hon. minister. head: Introduction of Bills Mr. Weadick: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is true that there (continued) is a long way to go to make sure that our young women are aware The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Hays. of the great opportunities in trades. There are wonderful jobs. We have a program available called women building futures, and this Bill Pr. 3 gives women a chance to try the trades, to understand what’s in- Auburn Bay Residents Association volved in the trades. It does help people to select what they would Tax Exemption Act like to do. We’d like to continue to work with our young women and create opportunities in the trades. Mr. Johnston: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce a bill being Bill Pr. 3, the Auburn Bay Residents Association The Speaker: The hon. Member for Lacombe-Ponoka. Tax Exemption Act. Municipal Funding [Motion carried; Bill Pr. 3 read a first time]

Mr. Prins: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Municipalities are responsi- The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Hays. 516 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011

Bill Pr. 4 fer McGowan, Karen Leask, Clayton Baumung, Craig Murray, Cranston Residents Association Cindy Cox, Franziska Nonnenmann, Crystal Van Lare, C. Cum- Tax Exemption Act mings, Christine McLaughlin, Brice Peressini, Jeremy Nathan Marks, Darlene Varaleau, Jessica Warner, Jane Keast, Joshua Mr. Johnston: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to intro- Cornfield, Agata Bedynski, Roger Short, Marilyn Harris, Diane duce a bill being Bill Pr. 4, the Cranston Residents Association Poloczek, Jannie Mills, Caitlin Beresford, Linda Gearing, John Tax Exemption Act. Dale, and Marian Veasey. [Motion carried; Bill Pr. 4 read a first time] Thank you, Mr. Speaker

The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Hays. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. Mr. MacDonald: Yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I have Bill Pr. 5 tablings today, and I want to put them all in a package. The first is New Brighton Residents Association a letter that I received – and I appreciated receiving it – on January Tax Exemption Act 21, 2011, from the Minister of Employment and Immigration. It Mr. Johnston: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to intro- outlines the number of occupational injuries and diseases in Al- duce a bill being Bill Pr. 5, the New Brighton Residents berta, the stop-work orders that have been issued, and a number of Association Tax Exemption Act. other very interesting facts. I also have included in this tabling some fine research done by [Motion carried; Bill Pr. 5 read a first time] the Alberta Liberal caucus researchers regarding the percentage of occupational health and safety inspections resulting from this or- The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Hays. der from 2002 to 2009. The handwriting on there is mine. It was done outside, and it was a very cold day when I did it, so that will Bill Pr. 6 Tuscany Residents Association explain that. Tax Exemption Act Thank you.

Mr. Johnston: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to intro- The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Currie. duce a bill being Bill Pr. 6, the Tuscany Residents Association Mr. Taylor: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It’s my pleasure Tax Exemption Act. today to table the requisite copies of two letters, the first from a [Motion carried; Bill Pr. 6 read a first time] constituent of mine by the name of Victoria Morgan writing to express her concerns regarding some proposed changes to the The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Lougheed. education act in relation to lowering the required age for grade 1. The second is from another constituent of mine, Allison Hum- Bill Pr. 7 phreys, writing to express her concerns regarding the impact of the Hull Child and Family Services recent provincial budget for the Calgary board of education’s Amendment Act, 2011 2011-2012 funding. Thank you. Mr. Rodney: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce a bill, that being the Hull Child and Family Services The Speaker: The hon. Member for Airdrie-Chestermere. Amendment Act, 2011. Thank you. Mr. Anderson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two tablings today. One is from Myrna McDonald, a constituent. She has been [Motion carried; Bill Pr. 7 read a first time] waiting for a response from the minister of health for a while now. Essentially, I’m not going to read a fraction of the letter, but I’ve head: Tabling Returns and Reports promised her that I would mention this: it has been five months The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Health and Wellness. since I wrote to the Premier and the health minister, and I asked for an apology, if not an assurance, that women and men are Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It’s my treated with the respect they deserve in a hospital and not have to pleasure to table with you for the Assembly the requisite number share a full bathroom and room with both genders. This is humili- of copies of the following two reports. First, the 2009 annual re- ating, to be standing in a glass shower and using the toilet and port from the College of Physicians & Surgeons of Alberta, titled have someone of the opposite gender walk in on you. Patients are Good Medical Practice: It’s What We’re All About. suffering enough after surgeries and should not have to put up Secondly, the 2010 annual report from the College of Regis- with such indignities and stress for weeks thereafter. I would table tered Psychiatric Nurses of Alberta, which I will add, Mr. this and ask that the health minister have someone in his office Speaker, is their 60th anniversary report. Congratulations to all of please contact this individual and speak to her concern. you. The Speaker: This is tablings now. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity. Mr. Anderson: The second tabling is regarding my member’s Mr. Chase: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As of today I will have ta- statement that I made earlier today. I mentioned in it an Alberta bled approximately one-fifth of the concerned Castle Health Services report that was presented to the city of Airdrie correspondence that I have received. If the session continues to showing that response times since the takeover of the Airdrie inte- June, as proposed, I might finish. The names of the concerned grated service by Alberta Health Services in Airdrie have Castle individuals today are as follows: Mary Jane Phillips, Jenni- March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 517 increased by 33 per cent, or about three minutes, for serious situa- respect ask him to withdraw that suggestion that these questions tions. should be directed to Public Accounts because certainly they can- Thank you, Mr. Speaker. not, and he of all members, with his past experience on this side of 2:50 the House with the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre and his many years as a government minister, should know that. The Speaker: The hon. deputy Leader of the Official Opposition. Thank you.

Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I have two Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, there may be a difference of opin- tablings to do today on behalf of the Leader of the Official Oppo- ion here, obviously, which we’ll await your ruling on. However, sition. The first is a document from Alberta Health Services listed the simple fact, as this member obviously knows, is that matters of as policy EC-01, established on January 14, 2009. It’s titled Safe financial recording are accounted for through a system called Pub- Disclosure, and it falls under ethical conduct under the Alberta lic Accounts. Now, whether that was for the immediate previous Health Services Board. The leader referred to that in his question year as has just been alluded to or not – it’s sometimes difficult to today. understand exactly which year this member is asking about be- The second tabling is from The Lancet, which is an article enti- cause he has gone back as far as six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 12, 15 tled Cancer Survival in Australia, Canada, Denmark, Norway, years. Nonetheless, I accept the clarification that he has given. Sweden, and the UK, 1995-2007 (the International Cancer What I would ask is that this hon. member remember that Writ- Benchmarking Partnership): An Analysis of Population-based ten Questions and Motions for Returns are adequately described as Cancer Registry Data. He referred to data from this report, which places where detailed questions that would require instant recall is peer reviewed, I’ll make a note of. The leader had referred to over a period of many years could better be placed. If he’d be statistics here which showed that Alberta has the lowest survival willing to do that in the future with his questions, I’d be willing to rate for lung cancer in Canada. withdraw the point that I made earlier. Thank you. The Speaker: Hon. members, there always is a difficulty with, I The Speaker: We have a point of order that was raised by the guess, when a question is asked and the time frames related to it. hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. Let’s be very succinct, We without any doubt have a situation called Written Questions okay? I think I understand what has happened here. and Motions for Returns. Traditionally, if you look at all of the Hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar, proceed with your point questions in the Order Paper, the requests for information can go of order. back two years, four years, six years, eight years, 10 years. Whether or not a minister has that kind of finite information in Point of Order front of him when he answers a question in the House is quite Clarification questionable, I would think. Some ministers may have a photographic memory and be able to carry all of this in their minds, but Mr. MacDonald: Yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I rise I suspect the norm is that very few of us in life actually have a on this point of order under 23(h) and (i), “makes allegations photographic memory beyond what’s happened in the last year or against another Member” and “imputes false or unavowed motives two as opposed to X number of years. to another Member,” and also (l), “introduces any matter in debate Secondly, what was really stated in the Blues – and I listened that offends the practices and precedents of the Assembly.” very attentively to the question; I do to all members. The minister Certainly, in question period earlier today the minister of health of health: suggested that, well, these are matters that could be dealt with at Mr. Speaker, the first effort I made was to appeal to this mem- Public Accounts. The minister of health knows full well – he has ber to put this question to the proper process, which he knows been there as a minister. If he hasn’t had an opportunity to attend, very well. There is a thing called Motions for Returns . . . certainly, there has been correspondence from the Public Accounts Okay. Committee to the minister’s office regarding how the process . . . and there is a thing where he knows very well that he’s al- works. The minister was also a member of this Alberta Liberal lowed to put a question forward through his own group that he caucus in the late ’90s, and he sat on the Public Accounts Com- chairs. mittee, so he should know the rules. I actually thought that was what the point of order was going to The rules are this, Mr. Speaker. It’s quite explicit. We are only be, but it didn’t actually come up that way. dealing at Public Accounts with the previous year’s financial There is a tradition that goes back – and it’s certainly followed statements, in this case 2009-10. The questions I asked earlier in in most committees but not all committees – that, in essence, the question period dealt with the period between 2003 and 2009 and, chair does not ask questions. The chair does administrative things. specifically, the amounts that were spent at Capital health and then However, there always has been a provision that if the chair of a put under the other expenses column without an explanation. committee chooses to want to ask a question, he simply leaves the Now, the Government Accountability Act, I would note, gives the chair, asks the deputy chair of the committee to serve in that ca- minister complete responsibility for his department. pacity, and then he can ask questions. I do not believe this has I would like to note in this House that as chair of the Public been the tradition of the Public Accounts Committee. I read the Accounts Committee I no longer have the right to set the schedule minutes, but I don’t follow that, specifically. for the meetings; that’s done by the committee. That was one If, in fact, the point of order was going to be that “I can’t raise a thing that was made quite plain to me by the government majority question,” I think that the hon. minister of health would probably on that committee. not necessarily know that because why would any minister, if they In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I would ask the hon. minister to appear before Public Accounts once a year, actually know that? So withdraw the reference that this issue could be dealt with at Public we certainly had a point of clarification. Accounts. It cannot. The rules of this House are quite clear. I don’t believe this is a point of order. It’s one of those little They’re quite plain about that. I’m disappointed that the minister things that can cause some real, real frustration if one member didn’t remember that during question period. So I would with all 518 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011 raising a question says, “Well, I know I can’t ask a question at that Centre and Citadel Theatre renovations in Edmonton and Can- committee,” and somebody says, “Well, why don’t you use your ada’s sports hall of fame in Calgary. job at your committee to ask the question?” Yeah, okay. We’re We are projecting expenditures of $58 million in support of the going in two different directions in here. So I hope there’s a bit of arts and cultural industry sector. Of this, $30 million will support a clarification. artists, arts organizations, book and magazine publishing, and the Members might want to take a look at House of Commons Pro- sound recording industry through the Alberta Foundation for the cedure and Practice, page 504. They might also want to look at Arts and direct department funding. sections on pages 1031 and 1039 with respect to this. It’s certainly In film and television throughout the realm of digital media not often the case where the chair would leave and the deputy Alberta’s star is on the rise. During my recent tour to Los Angeles chair would come in. I certainly indicate that for the Members’ with Alberta producers, directors, and union and guild representa- Services Committee for the years that I’ve been on that commit- tives my message was that Alberta is home to some of the best tee, which is almost 30 some-odd years, that’s never been the talent in performance, technical production, and locations in North procedure that we’ve followed in that committee. America. I’m pleased to say that most studio heads echoed those sentiments. 3:00 head: Committee of Supply With this budget we are committing nearly $21 million in support to our creative and multimedia industries. Included in this [Mr. Mitzel in the chair] total is a $2 million increase in base funding for the Alberta multimedia development fund, bringing the value of the fund to a total The Deputy Chair: I’d like to call the Committee of Supply to of $18.3 million. order. The stories of Alberta will continue to be told for the benefit of the audience and the teller alike. The stories of our past and pre- head: Main Estimates 2011-12 sent will come to life for visitors to provincial heritage sites and Culture and Community Spirit museums, and young Albertans will continue to have access to programming that meets curriculum standards through direct visits The Deputy Chair: Hon. minister, do you wish to open this? and distance learning via video conferencing or web-based con- ferences. Mr. Blackett: Yes, Mr. Chair. My officials will be in momentarily. Within Budget 2011 $47 million is assigned for heritage pro- Good afternoon. I’m pleased to be here today with key ministry gramming, including support for the Royal Alberta Museum, the staff to review the 2011-12 Alberta Culture and Community Spirit Royal Tyrrell Museum, the Provincial Archives, and our provin- estimates. I will be joined by my deputy minister, Lois Hawkins; cial museums and historic sites across Alberta. This also includes Assistant Deputy Minister Tom Thackeray; Senior Financial Offi- $8.2 million for the Alberta Historical Resources Foundation and cer Pam Arnston; the acting director of planning and performance for the preservation and maintenance of historic sites held private- measurement, Brad Babiak; the director of lottery funding pro- ly or by municipalities. This investment will ensure that all grams, Carl Royan; and the communications director, Parker Albertans have the opportunity to experience the culture and the Hogan. ever-growing legacy of the land and its people. Through one-on-one meetings of our regional dialogues Alber- Alberta’s not-for-profit and voluntary sectors play a vital role in tans from the arts, cultural, heritage, not-for-profit, voluntary, and providing community-based services. Many of these services sup- diversity sectors have shared ideas on how we can best achieve port the most vulnerable Albertans. The value of these services is our shared goals to give every Albertan the opportunity to express estimated at $9 billion of gross domestic product annually. This is their cultural identity through improved access and increased ca- an amazing rate of return on the investments we have made in pacity, every opportunity possible to develop as artists and supporting our not-for-profit and voluntary agencies and organiza- performers, and to explore and experience our rich and varied tions, and we will continue to make these wise investments. history from people to paleontology, give them new opportunities In Budget 2011 $105 million is being designated for community for creative, innovative ideas to take shape on the stage or the and voluntary support. This includes $38 million for the commu- screen, in print, or in digital format and the encouragement to be nity facility enhancement program and $25.25 million for the involved in their communities. equally successful community initiatives program. Budget 2011 This year’s budget reflects the realities of the economic climate provides $16 million for the community spirit program donation that we are living in today. We must be prudent to ensure that our grant, which encourages more individual donations to not-for- recovery and our growth are sustainable. In this budget we are profit organizations and registered Alberta charities. These dollars holding a responsible line on spending while looking for opportu- will help grow the already impressive contributions of our not-for- nities to make strategic investments that will build on the strengths profit, voluntary, and community groups and the positive impact of Alberta and Albertans. We see these opportunities as we see the their work has on the lives of Albertans. The positive impact and strengths of our cultural industries and our arts and heritage com- energy of our voluntary sector will be felt and seen in Edmonton munities and our not-for-profit and voluntary sectors. This work on June 14 and 15 as program staff, board members, and volun- enhances the quality of life for all Albertans and pays dividends teers gather for Vitalize 2011. and even greater economic, cultural, and social returns. Alberta’s cultural policy, the Spirit of Alberta, is built upon the For 2011-12 the total budget for Culture and Community Spirit idea of inclusion. The Spirit of Alberta provides the opportunity is $225 million. Within this budget we are able to maintain the for all Albertans to express their cultural identity, to do so freely, same level of operational funding as we had last year at $174 mil- to take pride in and to share in the richness of their ancestry, to lion. It is important to note that while Budget 2011 shows a net live in a tolerant environment free of discrimination. This is the reduction of $35 million in my ministry’s funding, this is related right of all Albertans. to capital funding, not the operating budget. As we complete the Budget 2011 provides $5.2 million to the Alberta Human Rights 2010-11 fiscal year, we’ve also completed $35 million in capital Commission. With this support we continue to ensure that the funds commitments for major projects like the Go Community human rights of all Albertans are protected and work to resolve March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 519 the differences that arise through a streamlined and effective dis- and something dollars, you’ve got fairly stable funding in most pute resolution process. Our continued investment of $2 million in areas, and I will ask specifically when I see an area where there’s the human rights education and multiculturalism fund will support been a significant drop. efforts to build healthier, more tolerant communities. I will point out to anyone listening or following this at home At a time when there remains much global uncertainty, Alber- that the funding for this department goes a long, long way. What tans can be optimistic about the present and the future. As a looks like a large percentage is actually a pretty small amount of government we have worked hard to strategically manage all of money here. You know, you can have 21 per cent representing our resources. We have looked for new ways to increase efficien- only a million dollars or something. It sounds like a big percen- cy internally so that we are able to maintain funding levels to tage, but it’s actually quite a small amount of money. The groups program areas. that are funded through this department stretch that money further Our investments in information technology infrastructure have than anyone could believe possible. Keep in mind that I think we improved communications with stakeholders. With more people all get very, very good value for our money out of this particular using Internet-based services for information, we need to have the department. systems in place for effective and efficient delivery of that infor- Just a couple of observations. The ministry support services are mation. With those systems in place we are better able to promote up what looks to be about 25 per cent from the 2010-11 budget, and deliver our programs and services and help build capacity and and I’ll come back to that a couple of times. Corporate initiatives: understanding. I remember us talking about that last year. Again, it’s up 65 per The resources provided in this budget will allow us to continue cent. Neither of those, I think, are particularly direct support to to achieve the goals set out in the Spirit of Alberta. We cannot artists or art organizations. It’s administrative money. I will come lose the momentum that we have created in the past three years to back later and question that. develop, foster, and showcase our culture and community spirit. The creative and multimedia industries, as the minister noted, Working together, we have already achieved a great many suc- are up $2 million, which represents some 8 per cent, bringing that cesses. fund to $8 million. My ministry continues to work closely with our stakeholders The administration for the Alberta Foundation for the Arts ap- and all Albertans so that we may achieve so much more in the pears to have gone up by 41 per cent, again not reflective of future, remembering the four key pillars: striving for greater money being delivered straight to the artists. access for all Albertans to arts and culture; maintaining capacity in I’ll come back to the Wild Rose Foundation because it appears all our communities for arts, culture, and recreation; focusing on to have gone up 91 per cent from last year’s budget. Now, there’s excellence; and providing sustainable support for our cultural no additional funding from government here, so it seems like a industries. really optimistic projection. Thank you. Community and voluntary support services is down, but again that is reflective of that federal capital money. The Deputy Chair: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. Under heritage historic sites and other museums it’s down by 8 per cent, which is going to hurt them a lot. The Alberta Historical Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. May I wel- Resources Foundation is also down. Some organizations out there come and thank the staff of the minister who are on the floor here are going to be trying to squeeze more money out of – what’s that today to aid him. phrase? You can’t get blood from a stone. That’s it. You can’t get The Deputy Chair: Hon. member, do you wish to go back and more money out of this. forth, as has been the practice? In specifically looking at the estimates on page 82, line 1, ministry support services, it looks as though a lot of the program areas Ms Blakeman: Yeah. Sure. did take cuts and last year even looked like they were underspent. I’m wondering why there was such significant overspending in The Deputy Chair: Okay. Thank you. ministry support services and why this budget has been increased for 2011-12. It was higher than budgeted, and then there’s an addi- Ms Blakeman: I know it’s not always your happiest day to be tional increase. Again, we’re not talking billions of dollars here. here, and I appreciate it. Some of you, I’m sure, enjoy it, but oth- Nonetheless, it is an increase that I’m asking about. ers not so much. I’m sure the minister appreciates it, and I Under the corporate initiatives, which is line 1.7 of the voted appreciate it. If we have additional staff in the gallery, my wel- expenses by program, appearing on page 82 of the budget – most come to them as well. of my questions are around that page 82 – I’m wondering what Thank you to the minister for the overview. I did my best to these corporate initiatives are. I asked specifically last year, and it take notes. I’m afraid I got a bit lost at a certain point, so I may wasn’t incredibly clear, so again the explanation for the 65 per not have taken down every fact and figure that he gave. If I ask for cent overage. It was budgeted for $2.9 million, and it was forecast a statistic he’s given, please forgive me. for the end of the year at $4.3 million, and next year it’s at $4.8 3:10 million, which again is a fairly substantial increase. Could I get an I do note and agree that there appears to be a whopping big explanation for why it was overspent? Again, what is anticipated decrease in the budget this year. But as we set out – and I was being spent under that corporate initiatives sector? If it’s funding quite specific about setting it out last year – there was some $30 certain projects, I’d like to know which ones, please. million included in the budget last year, which actually made the Under equipment purchases, again that’s under corporate initia- cuts look not so bad, which were specifically capital improve- tives: what are the equipment purchases that have happened here, ments, and it was flow-through money from the federal and, I guess, why do they have a priority now? If some programs government. Of course, this year that money is not there, so it are taking operational programming hits and are able to deliver looks like the budget dropped by a lot of money, and it, in fact, less, I’m wondering why the minister felt it was important to con- was not that bad. When you take out that 30 million six hundred tinue the funding of the capital? 520 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011

I think I’ll let you answer that section because it’s kind of a 1.2 Increase the use of peer assessment . . . to foster artistic complete section, and then we’ll continue. Thank you, Mr. Chair. excellence, promote organizational health and ensure transparency. The Deputy Chair: The hon. minister. I’m wondering where the funding to support those initiatives turns up in this budget. What line item is it under? I’m wondering if Mr. Blackett: Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. The reason for the there are funds being taken from artistic support programming to increases with respect to corporate initiatives is that Service Al- support the implementation of those two priority goals. That’s one berta no longer provides the funding for a lot of the initiatives series under cultural industries. with respect to IT, whether it’s management – we were stuck as a I’m going to keep moving and look at the funding for the Alber- department going through a conversion to a different program, a ta Foundation for the Arts. Now, I actually can’t quite tell if this different network. To be able to fund the finalization of that inte- funding went up or down because depending on where you look at gration, we had to take that out of our own dollars, so those were it, you get slightly different numbers: somewhere between $26 significant dollars that we needed to do it. We couldn’t stay in no- million and change and $27 million and change. But the adminis- man’s-land. tration is budgeted at the same level as the 2010-11 forecast, and We identified IT as one of our key cost-effective measures to that’s 41 per cent up and 49 per cent up from the previous year. So create access for all Albertans. We’ve got all of our historic sites again I’m seeing administration costs go up a lot, but direct deli- and interpretative centres. We’re now trying to focus more on very of grants to artists and arts organizations is either stable, a distance learning, like we do so well at Head-Smashed-In Buffalo little bit up, or a little bit down. I’m wondering why administration Jump and at the Royal Tyrrell Museum. We’re encouraging other has had to increase by almost half as much again twice, coming sites, like the Frank Slide Interpretive Centre and the Oil Sands into the ’10-11 year and then the ’11-12 year that we’re talking Discovery Centre, to utilize that web-based kind of connectivity. It about here. means that people in other remote locations across the province I’m also looking to confirm that the administration numbers are can have access to that kind of information as well. coming under vote 2.4. It’s saying, “Assistance to the Alberta In terms of the equipment, the equipment was used to purchase Foundation for the Arts,” but I know from those numbers that the GATE system, our new computer system, which would give actually is the Foundation for the Arts. So if there could be clarifi- online application access and reporting and updates with respect to cation, please, around how that actually breaks down. our community investment programs through lottery, so our CFEP Now, one of the issues that came up last year was the timing. At program, our CIP, our community spirit donor program. It will the time of the debates I raised it with the minister because in eventually include our AFA and our Alberta multimedia develop- response to a number of questions where I was looking for par- ment fund. We had to expend money in the previous year to make ticular details, the minister’s response was: “Well, we’re deciding sure that we developed the system, and we worked with a supplier that. We’re working on it. We’ll figure that out in May, June. to be able to do that. This year we had to have the actual physical We’re having consultations.” This puzzled me because the way I equipment, so that’s why it’s in the budget. was taught to do a budget, you had to know what the numbers Ms Blakeman: Okay. I would expect, then, that the money in that were to actually project the budget, and this seemed to be more: area would decrease in the year following, seeing as all of that has “Well, we’ll put this number in here, and then we’ll kind of figure been paid for. out what we’re going to do.” I also have to make the observation that, unfortunately, I’ve The results of this were – and he did appear to consult the been here long enough that I saw the creation of Service Alberta, groups in May, June, but I was hearing from groups over the and there was money transferred from departments to create Ser- summer that they still had not received their cheques and, in some vice Alberta to pay for all of that admin. I’ll have to put it on the cases, weren’t too clear on exactly how much money they were record that I’m a little ticked if Service Alberta is punting stuff going to get. That became very problematic because they had been back to departments without returning the money. I’ll put that one warned the previous summer that, yes, there might be terrible cuts on the record because, as far as I’m concerned, that’s not a square coming but not to worry: “Don’t do anything because maybe there deal. Each department certainly funded it to begin with. won’t be cuts.” So they didn’t quite make the moves because they I’m going to move down now and look at cultural industries, weren’t too sure, and they were instructed by department staff to, which is up slightly, very slightly, 2.5 per cent from last year’s you know, not do anything drastic, to wait. But then they waited budget, but we’ve got to take this in context of what happened the and waited and waited, and they waited past the budget. They year before that. It’s down still $10 million from the previous waited past May, June, and some of them into, as I say, the sum- year, ’09-10, so none of these ones have recovered to where they mer to find out exactly what their budget was. For a couple of were. They took a huge hit, and they’re getting a little bit back in a them this was really difficult because by the time they found out lot of cases in this budget. they’d had a 15 or 16 or, in one case, a 19 per cent cut, they were Under cultural industries can the minister provide a breakdown already well into their year. of where the funding is going, in particular how much is going to I’m wondering what the minister is doing to improve the cer- film and television? Now, he’d mentioned the $18 million. There tainty of the grant amounts that are going to both artists and may be an opportunity there to explain a bit more about that, or through the grant programs and whether there is a process for both perhaps it’s still just the $18 million. indicating the amounts and delivering the grants faster? 3:20 I’ll give you an opportunity to answer those. Now, I noticed that in the business plan on page 42 two of the Mr. Blackett: I think the first question was: out of item 2.3 how three priority initiatives are relating to the AFA application much was for the multimedia development fund? In this budget I process. believe it’s $18.3 million, and that’s an increase from $16.5 mil- 1.1 Refine the Alberta Foundation for the Arts’ application lion in the last fiscal year. We thought that was important to be processes to improve efficiency, transparency and accessi- able to do that because there is going to be an increase in the bility . . . March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 521 number of productions that we’re going to have in Alberta in this period. Both the Member for St. Albert and myself asked the ques- coming year, and we wanted to be able to support that. tion: why is there discrimination to this group of artists based on With respect to item 2.4 you had mentioned the increase in the fact that they’re doing a project in a school? That’s discrimina- funding for other initiatives, and you wondered if that was admin- tion based on where they’re doing it. The minister said that he istrative in nature and if they were coming out of program hadn’t okayed that, and that was turned around or withdrawn. funding. The thing is they are all coming out of it. That is coming 3:30 out of administration. There is no increased administrative expenditures to be incurred by our department for those initiatives, The last groups out there that are still being discriminated and that will come out of the existing dollars, which I believe is against are groups that are performing their work and whose affil- under program support, item 2.1, $748,000. iation is with the location of a university. That one the minister Now, under administration, the AFA, you will have a line on has not turned around. I have asked him questions in question page 94. If you look at page 94, the expense there is $1.278 mil- period on that. For example, the difference between Mile Zero lion. I stand corrected. The $748,000 I said was for administrative Dance and Orchesis: one is a dance group that’s affiliated with the grants; the $1.2 million is actually administration of all the other University of Alberta. They have been told that that’s it, that different programs. they’ve already had their last grant; they had it last summer, and In response to the performance measures . . . it’s over. The U of A mixed chorus, the organ recital group, any arts groups that are somehow situated or associated with the uni- Ms Blakeman: Priority initiatives. versities have been told: game over; no more money flowing through there. Assistance for the book publishers as well: game Mr. Blackett: Those priority initiatives and the funding of those, I over. think we have addressed that. That will come out of those other Again I question why there is discrimination based on place. administrative dollars. I’m going to connect the dots here. I think this has to do with the You had made a reference to cuts that were made, that organiza- minister’s desire to have other ministries take over funding for tions felt that they didn’t know what was going to happen after the groups that he believes are more affiliated with that location than budget last year, and they didn’t find out until July. From what I with the arts specifically, but I’ll let him tell me if I’m right there. can remember, our AFA grants to those organizations always I’m looking for consistency here. If we’ve managed to recog- came out about that same time frame. I’m told that this year we nize that it’s inappropriate to discriminate against artists and arts will be giving the groups an advance while the board reviews their groups that are affiliated with municipal buildings and artists that allocation for the groups. So they will find out, they will get an are affiliated with educational institutions, why do we insist on advance, and that, I imagine, would occur after April 1, and then continuing the discrimination based on an association with univer- they will receive the balance of their funding in July. Since we sities and colleges? I would like an explanation on that because I have no further reductions in funding for this coming fiscal year, I don’t think it’s fair. I think if we’re a cultural ministry and we’re think most of those groups should feel fairly confident that they trying to support artists – artists work all over the place. I can tell will receive the amount that they received last year. you that when I was a working artist, most of my rent money I think that answers all of the questions. came from doing things that were artistic and certainly used all of my training. But I was delivering stuff in the police service; I was The Deputy Chair: The hon. member. working for the hospitals. I was all over the place, and that paid a lot of rent money. So saying that where you’re doing it somehow Ms Blakeman: Thanks. That’s very useful. Yes, for some time the department gave advances and then followed up with the exact makes you ineligible for artistic grants I think is inappropriate, but I’ll let the minister put the explanation on the record. amount that was owing further on. I don’t know whether we got away from that, but boy there was a lot of uncertainty and stress in I’m also wondering how we’re going to get the communication on that, if it’s going to be carried through, so that it’s far enough the community last year because of that. Okay. We need to clear this up. I think this is all connected, but ahead that people are able to plan for that. Following up on the minister’s statements that playgrounds I have raised in question period a couple of times and in the media and other places an issue with respect to artists who were receiv- should be paid for by the Department of Education and things, can the minister tell us if any ministers did respond to his encourage- ing monies through grant programs that were associated with, generally, a specific location. Initially through the community ment and take up the gauntlet, take up the torch to fund the initiatives that were previously funded by Culture and Community series grant, I think it was, any group that was associated or performing in a building that was owned by a municipality was told Spirit? I’d be very interested to see if that happened because I suspect the answer is no. Further to that, does the minister still that they would not be eligible to apply for that grant anymore, which was in their minds the same as a cut. That got turned believe that this is a viable approach to funding initiatives that fall between the cracks? If it hasn’t worked so far, does the minister around, and they were told that wouldn’t be implemented but that they would have to form themselves into a not-for-profit so that have any other ideas about how to convince these other ministers to take on the responsibility for funding what he views as cultural they could apply to get the same money they had before, but it couldn’t be coming and be associated with a municipally owned and/or community-based funding through their departments? The other examples that he made were Environment creating building. Then there was the program that was the artists in the school water groups that were then registered as not-for-profits that then applied for funding through CIP or CFEP. He felt that they should program, I think. I may not have the right name there. Sorry. So any school that received funding to bring in artistic groups that be funded through Environment. This is all coming to mind because I’ve reread the Hansard from last year’s debate, and that would work with the kids over an extended period of time, artists in residence programs, that kind of thing – it wasn’t a perfor- was one of the examples that he raised. I guess what I’m seeing here is a bit of ministry turf wars, and mance; it was a working artistic experience for the kids – people were told that that was being cut, that they actually had their last the casualties are the artists, which, I would argue, should not be the casualties in this war. To cut them off and then hope that some grant and that there would be no more money coming in this grant 522 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011 other minister is going to pick them up I don’t think is the way to I was going to also mention that as far as the funding for those build our capacity for artists and the access to artists and to com- students in the universities and the colleges there’s a jury process munity-based programs in this province. But I’ll let the minister going on right now, as we speak, for the selection of those grants. talk about that. Just to look at support of excellence, if you look at the front page story today in the Edmonton Journal, Ben Wheelwright and Quinn The Deputy Chair: The hon. minister. Ritco-Dooley are students out of Victoria school for the arts and I might note that we’re in our second 20-minute section. are auditioning for the National Theatre School. I know you’re proud of that. Ms Blakeman: Thanks very much. I remember when I was down in Montreal at that institution Mr. Blackett: All right. That’s fine. during Journées de la culture as part of Canada Culture Days, I There’s a lot to go over there. But let’s be perfectly clear. We looked up on the wall, and 25 per cent of those donors were from haven’t wavered at all from our commitment to focus on artists Alberta. That’s something to be proud of, and I think we both and providing support. This artists in residence program was agree on that. something brought forward by our department, as I said here in 3:40 the House. There are people in my department that can have their Ms Blakeman: We do, indeed, although I’ll just make a brief own ideas. There are people in the Alberta Foundation for the Arts pitch for my alma mater, seeing as the two best performing arts that can have their own ideas. But I can tell you the buck stops schools in Canada continue to be the National Theatre School in with me. I never signed off on any document. I never asked any- Montreal and the University of Alberta department of drama here body to look at cutting any of those programs, and there is no cut in Edmonton, which consistently produces the finest actors, direc- to the artists in residence program. There was never any intention tors, playwrights, and masters of design in the country. When we by this minister to cut the artists in residence program, and it will are proud of people like that – most of the kids from here audition not be cut as long as I am minister. in both places, and it depends how far away from home they want The performance for universities and colleges: that money has to get. Generally speaking, our kids get into both places, and then not been cut. I don’t know why you insist on going out and creat- they have the choice. I chose to go here, to the University of Al- ing angst and anxiety amongst all of our artists by coming up with berta. National would have been fun, too, but my French was these things that are false. Other people in our department may appalling. Okay. have proposed them, but that was never my intention; again, never I’m glad to hear from the minister that there are no cuts to pro- something I signed off on. We have to support our artists. Where grams based on where the art takes place. I will find the e-mails are they going to learn if they have to when they’re in school, and provide them to the minister, but I actually quoted it in my when they’re in college, when they’re in university? That’s a notes here. There was one that actually said: “As of April 1, 2011, foundation, a building block, and that’s how we get to excellence. the AFA will discontinue the Artists and Education program . . . We have to support them from when they’re young children No new grant stream will be put in place to replace [it] or the old through our K to 12 education and beyond and to the point where Educational Touring grant programs.” That’s pretty definitive. If they can be whoever they want to be. that’s the one that got out there that hadn’t been approved by the As far as the book publishers: they aren’t turfed. They’re not minister, great, glad to hear it. under the Alberta Foundation for the Arts; they’re under cultural The other group I was talking about are not necessarily students industries. For the last two years the Alberta Foundation for the at the university. It’s any grant, artistic program, or arts agency or Arts board has asked that they not be included under the Alberta organization support program that is getting money, and they’re Foundation for the Arts. They are still part of our department. affiliated with the university, not necessarily students. The print- Book publishing and magazine publishing and songwriting or ing was part of it because they have a printing press at the sound recording are all under cultural industries, under that line. university, and they did do specific runs of books out of there. In terms of uptake of initiatives the Minister of Education has They are not lumped in with cultural industries because they’re said that it is appropriate that new playgrounds for schools be built very specific to the kind of work that they do there. So a slight by his department. That is a great step forward. I would love for a misunderstanding from the minister there. I’m very glad to hear lot of other people to be able to go and take that leap of faith, but that none of those programs are disappearing. I’m sure the others the Minister of Education has stepped forward with that. will be, too. I also believe strongly that things belong where they belong. Let’s talk about the Premier’s Council on Arts and Culture. That’s why horse racing is no longer in my department. That’s Now, the department reported in ’09-10 that the cultural policy why bingos are no longer in my department. And that’s why major had been championed by the Premier’s Council on Arts and Cul- fairs and exhibitions have been transitioned out of Culture and ture. It is an agency of the department, and its members are Community Spirit to Agriculture and Rural Development. It’s appointed and report to the minister. Its mandate in its terms of because that’s where they’re better aligned. That allows that min- reference is to champion the cultural policy and that the chair of ister to be able to utilize his resources for multiple different areas the council regularly communicates with the minister to share for the collective good of the agricultural industry and the rural insights of the council with him. That seems to be all that’s re- community. quired of them. I don’t think we’ve been consistent in that, and I will continue Last year when I asked about this, I was told with some asperity to work towards making sure that the dollars that are allocated to by the minister that they had exceeded their requirement for meet- my department are spent with the stakeholders that we’re en- ings and had actually met four times instead of two as was trusted with, and those are our arts and cultural groups, our required, but I’m still not understanding what it is exactly that the heritage groups, and our not-for-profit and volunteer and commu- minister sees as the council’s role in championing and developing nity organizations. As you know, hon. member, if you’ve been the arts. Perhaps he could give me some examples of what the here for a long period of time, it is not always possible to get what outcomes are. Have they produced any documents, anything on you want. paper that anybody could look at, or was there a business plan, or March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 523 have there been recommendations, for example? That’s what you from that, and going back on the second one, what we’ve heard, get from the seniors’ council or what used to be the women’s what people have submitted online, and what they’ve heard in council; you get recommendations. It just seems like this council person from those different areas. exists, but I can’t find what they do, and there’s nothing on paper. I thought it was important that I have my government officials, Perhaps the minister just wishes them to meet and to share insights people from my department, getting out to these different areas to with him. I’ll be interested in what that is. actually experience and hear first-hand what’s going on from these On to the cuts. I did point out that a number of groups took cuts individuals. Too often in Edmonton we create our policies in a of around 15 per cent. What I was interested in seeing is that the vacuum, and we forget that Alberta is very diverse. People in two departments that took the hardest hit and were also amongst Lethbridge are not the same as people in Fort McMurray, and the smallest departments last year were Service Alberta and Cul- they’re not the same in Grande Prairie as they are in Hinton. We ture. The minister talks about: well, we all had to tighten our belts, have to recognize that. We have to make sure that our programs and we all have to pull our weight, and we all have to contribute to suit all of those. The Premier’s advisory council was part and par- this. But I’m curious as to why the minister thinks that his minis- cel of those dialogues and passing on information, but a lot of the try was one of the two that was particularly singled out, especially information they gave was information that we had received from since it’s not a lot of money. They didn’t exactly balance the the individuals through those different dialogues. budget on the backs of, you know, a couple of million bucks that I do meet with the chair every couple of months. We talk about they took out of Culture and Community Spirit. a multitude of different things. One of those things that they en- I’m wondering, in addition to why he thinks it happened, what couraged a lot was to start telling our story in a more effective has been done? I kept asking this question last year, and there manner. wasn’t much pickup on it. What has been done to measure the Here in this slide presentation, you know, it shows just an ex- impact of the cuts and to assist in the recovery of the organizations ample of things that we have done in the last three years: the and artists this year, next year, and beyond? They’ve all had a Montrose Cultural Centre in Grande Prairie; the Olds College Fine huge cut, and now they’re stabilized but much down from where Arts & Multi Media Centre in Olds; the new Telus World of Sci- they were. How do we know how they are? When we talk about ence, which will open in Calgary this October; the Southern capacity and excellence and organizational health, what is the Alberta Art Gallery, which opened last September; the new Cana- department’s administration doing to put that into effect? dian sports hall of fame, that we’re going to open in July of this In addition, around the budget cuts the minister said that he, and year; the new Mount Royal Conservatory – the shovel is about to I quote: fervently believed that there was 10 to 15 per cent waste go in the ground – the Nina Haggerty centre for the performing in the ministry either through inefficiency or bloated programs. arts here in Edmonton; the Go centre; the beautiful Art Gallery of That appears in Hansard on page CS-261. Was the minister able Alberta; the Rosebud Theatre expansions; La Cité francophone; to locate this inefficiency or bloat? Where was it? I’m assuming Athabasca Regional Multiplex; the Medicine Hat clay district he didn’t find 10 to 15 per cent of it, but you never know. Maybe national historic site; the Edmonton humane society; upgrades to he did, and it went somewhere else. the Citadel Theatre; the Jubilee auditoriums, two of the top 100 Those are a set of questions on the council on the arts and spe- performing theatre venues in the world, which ranked last year 40 cifically on the cuts. Thank you. and 46, and only Massey Hall ranked in the top 100 in Canada; the old Bailey Theatre, 101 years old, which we refurbished when we The Deputy Chair: The hon. minister. opened this year; and the Canmore Opera House, to name just a few. Mr. Blackett: All right. Well, I’ve got some documents that I would like to distribute if I’m allowed to do that. 3:50 First of all, the first question was on the Premier’s Council on I tell you; when I gave that presentation to the Minister of Ca- Arts and Culture. I have a slide deck here that I think the hon. nadian Heritage and Official Languages, he was shocked because, member would like to see. I would, if I may, have those distrib- you know, there is no other province in Canada that has one of uted. those programs, one of those buildings going on. That’s our cultural policy coming to life. That builds access, that builds the The Deputy Chair: Hon. minister, perhaps you could table those. capacity, that fosters the excellence, and that certainly supports I think that might be better. our cultural industries. Mr. Blackett: Okay. I can certainly do that. Now, you want to measure the impact. Well, there is that, but The first question was about the Premier’s council. The Pre- our dialogue sessions – again, it is talking to people directly and mier’s council advises the minister of policy changes. One of the having them tell us exactly what that is. Yes, I understand that 16 challenges they have is that we’ve been moving pretty fast in our per cent is a lot of money to a lot of organizations, but we also department. We’ve had three different series of dialogues across have increased funding to AFA in the last six years by 55 per cent Alberta. We started out in December of 2009 through January of – 55 per cent – and the amount that we had to reduce is smaller 2010. We had another session that was in September-October of than most of the provinces that are bordering on either side of us. 2010. We were in places like Fort McMurray, Grande Prairie, Red Yes, my budget – I think wholeheartedly that we spend a dollar Deer, Edmonton, Calgary, Lethbridge, Medicine Hat, Cold Lake, more effectively than any other department in government, and and I know there’s another one that I’m missing. We sat down and you’ll get a greater bang for the buck. We have $9 billion of GDP had meetings with arts organizations and not-for-profit organiza- that we create for the not-for-profits, and we create $4.54 billion tions. of gross domestic product out of creative industries. For this particular relevance we’ll talk about the not-for-profit Lastly, locating inefficiency. We’ve done a fantastic job. We’ve organizations, and I will table our copies of the dialogue sessions, been doing that for the last three years, and there will be dollars which went online a couple of days ago. They are responses to the that we will have found this year. I did promise arts organizations initial dialogue sessions that we had a year ago, some of the things that if we found dollars, they would receive some of those dollars that we were working to improve upon and then having feedback back. The end of the month is about a week away, so stay tuned. 524 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011

Ms Blakeman: Great. Well, I am really interested in hearing policy have been successfully integrated into the work of govern- where the inefficiency and bloat was and how much money you’re ment.” That appears on page 12 of the minister’s annual report. able to redistribute as a result of that. I’m finding that a bit vague as a statement of results. Could the I know that it’s good political spin for the minister to keep say- minister detail what success means in this context and how I could ing that there was a 55 per cent increase in the funding for the expect to see the cultural policy integrated into the work of gov- AFA, but I lived through that. Between 1989 and 2005 there was, ernment in this year that we’re looking at? for all intents and purposes, no increase, not even cost of living. The minister often said last year that, well, you know, we’re As I ran a theatre company or tried to work in theatre companies doing the train in Vancouver, and we’re giving $6 million to sup- and they tried to go out and buy set pieces or tap shoes or what- port the Alberta artists that performed in the square. I’m ever else, they were trying to buy it at 2001 prices using 1989 wondering if that’s what he’s including as successfully integrating dollars. So we more than earned that 55 per cent. That was not an the cultural policy into the work of government or if there’s some- increase. You could clearly look at that as cost of living. Every- thing else that’s happening that I’m not aware of. How do I see body else got it. Transportation got it. Municipalities got it. this integration in the rest of government? Is it something tangible, Everybody else got it; we didn’t get it. I know he needs to say that or has everybody just agreed that it’s a good idea? in order to repair some things, but I’m sorry; you get no standing Last year the minister said that the budget cuts were made with ovation from me on that one. an eye to “increasing the competitiveness of our cultural industries What we had was a coming up to – I think it should have been in the future.” That is in Hansard on page CS-260. I guess I’m even more than it was, but we were all very appreciative of the looking to see how the minister can explain how cuts were sup- money we got, and there has been a decrease from that. It’s affect- posed to increase competitiveness. Since the future is now, could ing all of us because now we’re trying to deal in 2011 dollars to he give us an example of the results of this strategy? How did buy things, to buy paper, to buy, you know, art paper, acid-free cutting cultural industries result in them being more competitive, paper, and all the rest of that, so it really makes a difference to us. or is there a cultural industry that’s doing demonstrably better than I’ll just climb down off my high horse and get on with it. Okay. it was as a result of these cuts? Exactly what was happening? Under cultural policy the government’s cultural policy highlights The last piece of this is the cultural sector labour force. Now, four keystones of – and you mentioned it – access, capacity, excel- last year I had talked to the minister about the 2004 labour market lence, and fostering cultural industries. I’d like to talk about review for cultural workers. I asked about how we were getting on access. I’m wondering how the minister or the department staff with the next one. In fact, in 2010 the federal Cultural Human expect to improve access when, in fact, groups are able to offer Resources Council published an additional cultural human re- less programming. I’m just going to highlight the Alberta Craft source study, and it’s some of the GDP numbers that he has been Council, that did a stunning exhibit as a way of driving home their using. point recently in which there was nothing on the walls. There was 4:00 nothing displayed – there was no sculpture – because they wanted to show the exhibition with the empty walls, highlighting the ef- We were not involved in the 2004 project, and I’m wondering if fects of the cuts in programming. he can tell us who took the lead for Alberta in the 2010 project. Somebody is going to jump up here and say: we didn’t cut it. What I was hearing was that since we identified no one, nobody Yes, but not increasing it, even cost of living, is in effect a cut, got sent to participate in that particular survey. I’m wondering if and there were cuts. They were in the tens of thousands range we were able to participate in it. Once again, it’s the federal gov- here. That matters. So how is that keystone of access going to be ernment’s Cultural Human Resources Council publishing a achieved in this year? How is the keystone of capacity going to be cultural human resource study. It came out in 2010. As a result, achieved? were we able to get any cultural workforce information that is I note specifically that from 2009 to 2011 the department spent usable in Alberta, and has that helped with the minister’s competi- nearly $12 million on cultural policy initiatives, and that’s coming tiveness strategy? Maybe I could put it that way. I’m thinking we out of their annual report on page 49. The policy itself was an- didn’t get in on this one and that they don’t have numbers for us, nounced as completed in 2008. During the same period the but maybe I’m wrong, and I’m happy to have the minister tell me Alberta Foundation for the Arts spent a little more than $10 mil- that. So I’ll let him answer that sort of series of questions. lion on grants to individual artists, which is less than the amount Mr. Blackett: Sure. The first one was on access and how. You that was spent on the work for the policy. If you want to put it mentioned the Alberta Craft Council. You know, one of the things another way, it’s about one-quarter of what the AFA provided in we have a great opportunity for here is to take leadership and tell grants to the arts organizations. Can the minister explain the bal- Albertans first and tell the rest of the world what great cultural ance here between the amount of money that was spent on policy institutions we have, what great artists we have, and how we’d initiatives with respect to capacity and the amount that was actual- like to work together to foster that excellence. ly spent on developing capacity through grants to the arts? I’m Now, the Alberta Craft Council. That was fantastic. They had a curious about that. display, and they sent out postcards. By the way, the postcard? The business plan also includes as a priority initiative develop- That was I Love Alberta Art. That’s something we promoted out ing a strategic plan and policy objectives to address the future of our department. It’s nice of them to take that and take the nega- direction of creative industries in Alberta. That’s in the business tive because you know what? Why would they want to tell the plan, page 42, initiative 1.3. We’ve heard a lot about how there good story? Why would they want to take the time to say: “You have been plans and consultation and blueprints, and community know what? This is what we do for Alberta artists. This is what spirit policy has all been developed, so I’m a little curious about they represent. You should support us. You should come and buy why there is a business plan that includes a priority to develop a more product because this is fantastic. Our artists are not getting plan. Maybe you could explain that. How can we expect to see the paid enough, and we need your support to come and do that.” But, strategic plan and the explicit policy objectives from that? no. And I would have been happy to help them with that. I’m going to go forward now to cultural policy integration. The In terms of access most of our departments, in terms of the ministry’s most recent annual report states that “aspects of the March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 525 problems they’ve had – what we’ve had to focus on in the last two that it give us the best bang for the buck. I’m happy to say that the years is trying to do more with less, to become more efficient in industry is working together to make that happen today. our operations. There is waste all around the board, and I’ll get to Our federal human resource council and who led that: I had a some of that in a moment because you brought that up with an- meeting with Minister Moore just last week. We didn’t get in on other question. that one in 2010, but I talked to him after the FPT. We said that Our council’s integration in government. One of the things that we need to share a lot more resources amongst the provinces and we’ve had very successfully is Alberta Arts Days. We started that with the federal government. We’ve asked for a couple of differ- in 2008, and in 2009, with help from the Premier’s council and the ent things from them and the Canadian Tourism Commission. We AFA, we were able to get the Minister of Education to go out and want to get more information as to the economic impact for film, encourage all the K to 12 schools in the province to participate. I television, and digital, not just on the direct. Look at New Zeal- think we had over 80 of those participate. We had the Minister of and, for instance, with The Hobbit. They say that that’s a billion or Municipal Affairs send a letter out to all the libraries across Al- billion and a half dollars. It’s not just what’s spent on salaries. It’s berta asking them to participate. We had 142 libraries participate. not just what’s spent in the hotels. It’s not just what’s spent on Last year, in 2010, we did the exact same thing, and we increased costumes. How many people are coming to New Zealand now that. We want every year to be more inclusive with Albertans, and because they saw that movie? We know that Brits love to go to this is encouraged by our Premier’s advisory council. Culture has countries that they see in movies. to be larger. Arts is a subset of that. You’ve got to take people in They hadn’t had a lot of definite information on that, so we’re their communities, the multicultural aspect, and make every one of working together with them on that. He has said that when that those 3.7 million people feel welcome. We did that. information comes forward, he will certainly share that with us. I We also partnered with the not-for-profit community last year. will give Minister Moore credit because he was the one that made The Edmonton Federation of Community Leagues was fantastic. me realize what the percentage of our gross domestic product is in That 151-member or 152-member organization had their own relation to other industries. For Canada it’s, like, $46 billion. functions. We hope to do that again here in Calgary, and we will That’s twice what agriculture is for the country. In Alberta we’re a continue to work through other departments and other organiza- little bit more the flip side on that. We’ve got to get past where we tions and municipalities. I’d like to say that the city of Grande think that this is an expenditure. This is an investment. Prairie put forward a motion, and they declared that they would We spend $20 million or $30 million, and what we’re going to put $5,000 towards their Arts Day program for 2011. get out of it is a multitude of benefits. I’ll give you one. We got In terms of cuts for competitiveness I didn’t say that cuts will $13 million of economic benefit. It cost us $2 million, but we also make us competitive. Cuts force us to be competitive. I know that got notoriety throughout Hollywood for our crews, our location, many of those organizations run lean and mean, but that’s what and our professionalism. That will leverage other projects, not just we have to do. for Warner Bros. but for Disney and HBO and the like. In terms of our Alberta Film Advisory Council we focused on Thank you. two things that we need to do to get the industry back up and em- ploying as many people as possible, having as many productions The Deputy Chair: The hon. member. here and generating as many dollars in Alberta as possible. We Ms Blakeman: Thanks. I’ve asked to go back on the list so I can had to look at innovation. We had to look at what new technology complete my questions. Actually, the minister did say that cuts we can be a leader in, that we can participate in, and that we can were going to make the cultural industries more competitive. It is grow and have a niche market that is second to none in North on page 260, and I can read it back to . . . America. We thought that was HD and 3-D technology. Then we looked at competitiveness, and that was a wide range The Deputy Chair: Hon. member, the time has passed. of things. We had to look at our incentives. When we went to The hon. Member for Airdrie-Chestermere. L.A., we found out that our incentives weren’t the problem, that we had other little niggling issues. There was the lack of a master Mr. Anderson: Thank you, Mr. Chair. agreement between unions and guilds and our producers. They are working hard to be able to do that. We weren’t working as a part- The Deputy Chair: Hon. member, are you going to combine your nership. We weren’t working as government and unions and 10 minutes each? guilds and producers and our film commissioners and our postse- 4:10 condary facilities. We needed to do more of that. Mr. Anderson: Back and forth if we could. That would be great. We needed to be more efficient in the way that we utilized the Thank you. It’s always good to see the smiling face of the min- money that was in the Alberta multimedia development fund. ister there. He’s very passionate about his area, about his ministry, There are projects that we had there. There are genres that we and that’s much appreciated. probably should be funding. We don’t fund sports. We don’t fund I also want to thank the government for sponsoring and support- news. We don’t fund reality television. Some others reportedly ing the Airdrie air show. It’s a great part of our community. It’s a were given money with the belief that they’re actually going to be new event that we’re putting on. This is the second version of it; seen. That was the premise on which they would receive money, we did one two years ago as well. It was just phenomenal. We had and some of those didn’t happen. thousands and thousands and thousands of people show up, so I do We are all working together to make sure that in the year 2011 appreciate the support from this minister on that issue. we’re going to actually have those union and guild memberships I do want to talk about the CIP and CFEP programs, and I have working. We paid out almost $20 million last year and $34 million talked to this minister in private about it as well, so he knows the year before, and there are still people that are sitting and not generally where I’m coming from on this issue. First of all, I can working. We need to work at efficiencies. It’s a balance of indi- only say from my own experience, and I know the minister can genous work and service work and all the different genres. We only go from his own experience, too. When I was a member of have to make sure that we’re making that money work for us and the Progressive Conservative caucus, how it worked, in my expe- 526 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011 rience, with regard to CFEP and CIP monies and grants was as more of a heads-up when projects have kind of been approved so follows. that we know beforehand what has been approved, and I appreci- There were two types. I had the opportunity to sit on both the ate that. That’s better than what I was getting before. But it’s just Calgary caucus and the rural caucus. I’m going to start with how so categorically 180 different from what it was when I was a things were done in my own constituency, specifically in rural member of the Progressive Conservative caucus. Alberta, and then I’ll move to Calgary. There was a certain specif- I don’t mind that we do it this way. I actually think the MLA ic amount of money that was allocated for each constituency in should have a role in weeding through the malarkey that’s out rural Alberta. I forget the exact amount. It’s probably changed there. I don’t like the idea of someone from a constituency coming since I last checked, but it was several hundred thousand dollars forward and applying and then, you know, some civil servant in for both CFEP and for CIP. Edmonton, who has no clue what the needs of the local commu- Now, how it worked in my two years there – you brought this nity are, making a decision. I certainly don’t disagree that the up. MLA should have a role, but what I do disagree with is whether that role that the MLA has should be based on whether they’re in Ms Blakeman: I did. the government or not. Since I’ve been in government and since the hon. Member for Mr. Anderson: You brought this up. I remember that, hon. mem- Calgary-Fish Creek has been in government, we have not whatso- ber. The first time it had ever been mentioned in the Legislature, I ever in any way, shape, or form been consulted. We can write a almost . . . letter to the minister, and we can say that we hear that this applica- Ms Blakeman: I nailed you. tion from a constituent is coming forward and that we support it in principle, whatever, but the same consultation, the back-and-forth Mr. Anderson: You did. Well, for telling the truth. process that existed when I was in the government, absolutely and What happened at that time – well, I won’t go into that. Essen- categorically does not exist today. That’s unacceptable. That’s just tially, somebody would come in from lotteries or from the absolutely not right. program and would sit down with us and say: “This is how much money you have in your budget every two years” – I think that it’s Ms Blakeman: Did you get to hand out the cheque? over two years that they spread it; it might be three years – “and Mr. Anderson: Yeah, we got to hand out the cheques. I mean, I here’s how much money you have that you need to spend in your was glad to see the Airdrie air show supported. I got no heads-up CIP and CFEP budget that you have left for your constituency.” on the cheque announcement, but that’s just, you know, another Then they would go through the list of programs that were being matter. applied for, and they would go by the city of Airdrie or by Ches- I would as an MLA in rural Alberta from an opposition party termere or the Airdrie Pro Rodeo or whatever. They go through like the ability to have a say in a project or at least be able to ex- these different applications, and they would say exactly where we press my support or lack of support for an application knowing were in this application process. Then they would ask: “Mr. that I know the needs of my community a whole lot better than Anderson, would you like to support this project, and if so, for somebody in your office, just like, hon. minister, you know the how much?” needs of your community better than any other MLA in this Every single month, essentially, when applications came in, we Chamber. So that’s the first thing. would be asked by the individual – community liaison officer was, As a member of the Calgary caucus it was a little bit different. I believe, the title – whether we supported the project and to what Now, my funds were not put into the Calgary caucus, but I did dollar amount. Never in my two years, the entire time I was in attend the meetings where they were divvied out. Essentially, we government, did anyone say no when I said that I supported the would go through project by project. People would come to Cal- project and I said the dollar amount that I supported it for. Not gary caucus, give their presentation, and then we would go around once in that two years, not a single time, was the actual grant that the room and essentially talk about which projects we supported went out unequal to what I had specifically supported, to the dol- and for what dollar amounts, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The lar. Never once was there a problem with it, which was fine. That Calgary MLAs would pool their money, and then they would was fine. divvy it out according to whatever they discussed. So that’s how People would come in to see me. They would say: we need to it’s done in Calgary caucus. That’s how it worked. build a new playground. My assistant and I had so many play- Now, I don’t know if things have changed since then, hon. min- grounds going up in the area that we said: “Okay. For each ister, but if they haven’t changed, if it’s still that way, I as a rural playground it’s going to be $30,000. That’s how much we can MLA would like the ability to participate in the decision-making budget, $30,000 per playground.” This is probably shocking to process or at least participate and have in advance the opportunity you, hon. member. Anyway, that’s what occurred. to express support or lack of support for the projects in my com- I have documentation here – and I’ll table it tomorrow in the munity to the dollar amount, just like I was when I was a PC Legislature – correspondence between myself and my assistant member. I think that’s a fair request. I’ll let you respond to that. and the community liaison officer talking about these things, talking about this back-and-forth, about how much money I would Mr. Blackett: Mr. Chairman, I’d love to respond to that. First of support it for, what project I supported, et cetera. all, let’s be perfectly clear. No MLA is responsible for administration of the dollars in their constituency no matter what. The hon. Ms Blakeman: Is that happening now? Member for Fort McMurray-Wood Buffalo said to me in a letter, Mr. Anderson: Well, incredibly, it’s not. Incredibly, since I’ve which I would be glad to table tomorrow: I am the one responsible become a member of an opposition caucus, I don’t get that, Mr. for handing out grants in my area; I will take care of that; you nor Chair. I don’t get that same heads-up. I’m not asked for my opin- the Premier nor anybody else in your government needs to come ion. I have been back and forth with the minister on this issue, and there; I will take care of that. That is wrong, absolutely wrong. we’re talking about, you know, ways that he can maybe give us I’ll tell you what the policy is today because I met with the March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 527

Member for Airdrie-Chestermere. First of all, prior to that, I said we’re the local representative in our constituency. We’re not say- to him: “Let’s be clear. Of all the opposition-held ridings in the ing that this cheque comes from MLA Rob Anderson or anything province, there is a disproportionate amount of money that goes to like that. them. Higher than the average of any other constituency goes to Edmonton-Centre, Calgary-Buffalo, Calgary-Mountain View, Some Hon. Members: Names. Names. Edmonton-Gold Bar, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.” Mr. Anderson: Sorry. Names, names. I agree. We divvy out the money on an average per constituency. There I’m not saying that that should be the case. All I’m saying is is no constituency that actually gets exactly the money because in that we should have an ability to at least be there to represent our some constituencies we don’t have as many applications as we constituents, so a notification. My first question is: will the minis- have money allocated to them. Sometimes we take that extra mon- ter undertake to at least notify opposition MLAs of events prior to ey, and we try to divvy it around to programs that we think have cheques being distributed so that we can at least attend and be good benefit. But we always look from the CLO standpoint. Is the present? application viable? Do they have the matching funds that are re- The second question is kind of attached to that. Before an appli- quired? Do they have community support? A lot of times that cation for something is approved, can we at least be asked for our community support comes in the form of the MLA. opinion on it, just give an opinion? You don’t have to follow the 4:20 opinion, you know. Okay. This playground is coming down. The Now, what we have today, I can tell you, are reports that go out application is for $80,000. Can I at least say, “Yes, that is very to MLAs once a month which will tell you what projects are being much needed; I support this project” or “No, those guys were in put forward in your constituency. That goes out to our opposition for money three years ago, and I think they’re just milking you” or MLAs. It says: ABC organization has applied for a grant. If they whatever? Can we at least respond to it and give our honest opin- want to, they can write a letter of support on that grant, and we ion of whether the project is supportable? So notification prior to will take that under advisement. Actually, there have been several the cheques, and if we could have some input into things prior to in some of those ridings that I’ve already mentioned that they the approval, that would be fantastic. supported, and we did award them a grant based on that. So I think I’ll give you an example of this prior approval. Again, I will it’s fairly equitable. table these tomorrow. This is an excellent opportunity for this But when you are a government member, it’s not the same as minister, who’s obviously passionate about his ministry and has being an opposition member, and when the minister is out there done a lot of good things in his ministry, to really, you know, presenting something, he’s going to take his government col- change the way that business has been done on the CFEP/CIP leagues. That happens. I’m not denying anybody else from it. If programs, show a lot of ingenuity and transparency, and make the hon. member is suggesting that I should be notifying all of these decisions more nonpartisan and transparent. I think it would them, that’s fine. But today I can categorically say that those be a great opportunity for him to do so. CLOs do not give that information out to the members. I give that One of these things. There was a message from a Cheryl Dal- information out to the Members of the Legislative Assembly, to wood, the community liaison officer. I just want to stress that this my government members and to the members opposite. If they person is doing her job. Clearly, she’s doing nothing wrong be- want something approved or they want help, like the Member for cause she’s following directions. This is to my assistant, Donna. In Edmonton-Strathcona had with a previous application, I would be the e-mail she says, “Just wondering if Rob has had an opportuni- more than happy to sit down and talk about that. We certainly ty to review this funding request yet?” This is for the CIP helped with that project, and that organization did receive funding. application for the Olympic torch relay community celebration. We’ll continue to do that. We’re as transparent as we possibly can “Drumheller, Red Deer South and Red Deer North have commit- be. ted to support their part of the event. Please let me know as soon My father came from a background of working with Revenue as possible.” Canada and the Auditor General, and he told me that the very first She had asked a couple of times, and for some reason my assis- thing you do is you go talk to the Auditor General and the Ethics tant and myself hadn’t gotten back to her, so she was following up Commissioner. You make sure that you’ve got all your ducks in a again the second time saying: we really need to know whether you row and that things aren’t offside. Anything that is offside with as the MLA support your part of the funding for this so that we the Auditor General is offside with me. We made sure that we can go ahead with this project. I think this is great. I think this is streamline some of those things. Some of my colleagues maybe the way it should be. It needs to be transparent. MLAs need to be didn’t like that, but that is the responsibility that we have to the responsible for what projects they support and what they don’t taxpayers of Alberta. We think we’ve been fairly fair, and we will support and why they support and why they don’t support. People continue to do so. I’m very proud of those programs. need to know that. Our voters need to know that. As I said in my article, if you remember, Member for Mr. Anderson: As I said, I completely agree with the minister Edmonton-Centre, that’s part of the transparency that should exist, that the program is a good program. It’s not about the amount of that we should be accountable for the support or nonsupport of money. I’m not for one second saying that Airdrie has been short- things that we do so that people can judge for themselves. You changed under the CIP and CFEP programs. I get the same know, it’s just like anything else. Transparency will make us all amount in our community as every other rural community, for stronger MLAs, will make us more accountable. example. That’s not in dispute here. Would you be willing to do those two things, Mr. Minister, What I have a problem with is that as an opposition MLA – you notification and asking for input prior to approval? know, Albertans voted for me, and Albertans voted for you. We all got people to vote for us, and that’s why we’re in the Legisla- Mr. Blackett: Well, Mr. Chairman, two things. On the first one ture today. The issue, though, is that as an MLA I think that I’m open to the idea of looking at notifying opposition members regardless of what party you’re from, you should receive a notifi- of things that have been made. I will look at that. cation when you’re going to give out government money because On the second one let’s be perfectly clear. No government 528 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011 member now is asked for a yes or a no from my department or Mr. Blackett: Thank you, hon. member, for that question. The myself. I’m not going to extend that opportunity to the opposition Varscona Theatre is a wonderful facility. I have a soft spot for it because that doesn’t happen right now. We provide a report that because I got to perform with Die-Nasty there a couple of sum- will tell you which one of those applications is currently being mers ago. We had a discussion. We had a presentation by them. I considered. You have a chance to write a letter of support or pick think it was somewhere in 2009. I haven’t heard from them in up the phone and call our office if you’d like, and you can put that quite some time, so I’m not familiar with the city coming forward. on the record and notify your people in your constituency, write a It’s probably time to reconnect with them to see where they’re at letter to your local newspaper, just like anybody else here can. But in their process. we will not be asking anyone yes or no. Those members here We have the community facility enhancement fund right now, a know they can provide letters of support if they would like to. program that we could utilize, but there’s a limited amount of They get those reports, and we move forward. money in there. It’s $35 million trying to spread across the prov- In terms of notification I don’t think that’s something that’s ince, so that’s tough. When we had the major community facilities unreasonable to ask for, but on the second one the answer would program is when we talked to them. It was just the tail end of that. have to be no. We thought we’d be able to utilize that, but we haven’t had that happen. The Deputy Chair: The hon. member. I’d be happy to sit down with them. We can provide some funding through CFEP. It may be in excess of the $125,000 that’s Mr. Anderson: Yeah. Just to clarify quickly, I agree. I don’t want there, but it will not be in the millions of dollars because we just to be asked yes or no, but can we at least just get a heads-up be- don’t have it. But I’d love to sit down with them and see where fore the approval to ask for input? Just input. I know from these they’re at. If the city supports them and the federal government documents and I know from my own experience that there’s no supports them, the province of Alberta is usually someone who doubt that I have been asked yes or no personally, but maybe that can be counted on. I’ll talk to some of my colleagues in the Ed- has changed. Maybe you’ve changed that in your department. I monton area and see what we can do to help them with that. I’d don’t know. I haven’t been there for a year and a half. Can we at love to have that discussion. least get a notification prior to approval to at least have the ability to give some input into the project? Just any input. I’m not saying The Deputy Chair: The hon. member. that you have to follow it. It’s not a yes-or-no question. It’s just that if we could get that opportunity to have input into a project Ms Notley: Thank you. Well, I think a good starting point would prior to final approval of that project, I think it would be a great, be for them to have an opportunity to make a presentation to the transparent thing. capital region caucus, which I understand is not something that they’ve been successful at doing yet. So that would be a good The Deputy Chair: The time has elapsed on this one. start. The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona, please. I’d like to talk about another issue that you’re very familiar with 4:30 as it relates not just to my constituency, but it’s through my con- Ms Notley: Thank you. I think I’ll try going back and forth. We’ll stituency that I brought it forward to you. As I’m sure you’re not see how that works. I have a number of issues that I need to cover surprised, I am quite – well, disappointed is probably an under- off. statement. Just to recap the history on this in terms of your I’d like to start with just a fairly open-ended kind of question. understanding of where I’m coming from, as you know, there was Of course, I haven’t gotten any of these one-on-one consultations the decision that CIP funds would not be made available to mu- that have been described, but on behalf of some people in my nicipal bodies, and that was something that was discussed in the constituency I know the minister is aware of the efforts by the last round of estimates. Varscona Theatre to acquire funding. They’ve made some, ob- Then, lo and behold, arts and culture projects that were orches- viously, very good arguments. They’ve succeeded in getting a trated through the Old Strathcona Business Association, which is a fairly significant commitment from the city, and there appears to business revitalization zone – suddenly they were told that they be a fair amount of productive conversation with the federal gov- would not be eligible for these funds, which seemed like a bit of ernment, but they seem to be running up against a brick wall with an oddity because, of course, they are not actually municipal bod- the provincial government. ies. We got correspondence about that. We met with you. Two This is a theatre that, you know, is one of the busiest theatres in different leaders of two different business revitalization zones met the country, that has about 350 performances a year, that has over with you along with me, and at that time you assured us that it 35,000 people go through its doors every year, and that offers a didn’t make sense, that you understood that it didn’t make sense, range of programming to kids and to youth and to adults. So it’s a that it was sort of a gross expansion of that policy to that group, key community and cultural centre in our city, and they have some that it didn’t make good public policy sense, and that you would very, very serious capital problems with respect to the state of the have it fixed. building right now. Based on that – and this is the thing that’s really concerning – I I understand that in the past they got some CFEP funding to do know of at least one business revitalization zone organization that some work around the assessment of their needs, and that’s great. went ahead and invested money and time and volunteer efforts to But, as you may well know, I think the assessment concluded that move forward on projects that they believed they were eligible to there was about $4 million or $5 million that was needed. So my apply for funding on. Then just a mere three weeks ago they got question is pretty open-ended, really, to the minister: where would yet another letter telling them that, no, after all, they’re not actual- you suggest that these folks go and look to get some support pro- ly eligible. My first problem, of course, is with the fact that this vincially for the amount of dollars that they need? Do you believe organization acted on the assurances that they received in person that refurbishing the Varscona Theatre is a project that is worth from the minister several months ago, to their detriment. So that is pursuing? the first issue here. March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 529

The second issue here is again the public policy implications of municipality. Their governance is by the municipality. And you this. Business revitalization zones don’t get money, specifically, can shake your head. I can tell you that I’ve got the paperwork, any more or less from municipalities than any other community and we’ve done it to prove it. They cannot operate without direct group, nonprofit society, or anything else. The municipalities permission of the municipality for a specific purpose and are then merely act as a collector for them. What they do is they collect funded by the tax levy. As you mentioned, if incorporated as a funds that businesses voluntarily agree to provide, and that’s all not-for-profit, then they would be eligible. But for a lot of them they do. They are simply a flow-through mechanism. There could it’s the legality, and it’s the paperwork. My department couldn’t be a variety of different flow-through mechanisms, but at some find any consistency or anybody that could provide the informa- point in the past it was determined that the municipality was the tion to make that. I said to you that it makes no sense. If you’re most appropriate flow-through mechanism. clearly a not-for-profit and we can demonstrate that, then it should In the past this minister has talked about the need to leverage – be straightforward, and they’d be eligible. There’s no guarantee this is one of your favourite concepts these days – dollars from they would get funding. But from what I could see and everything other communities. So if government money goes into something that’s been put forward to me, that’s not clearly there. and you can get corporate sponsorship or community sponsorship to add onto it, then one taxpayer dollar turns into four ultimate Ms Notley: Well, I would sure have appreciated it, Mr. Minister, dollars for the project. Now, these business revitalization zones if your department had called up the Old Strathcona Business are built-in dollar leveraging mechanisms because small business Association while they were in the process of not getting this in- – you know, people think: “Oh, yeah. The NDP don’t like small formation and maybe asked it from them because they would have business.” But I actually like small business, and these BRZs are gotten that information. They would have found out that they’re exactly the reason why. They give right back to their community audited to higher standards than 90 per cent of the organizations because they live and die on the health of their community, the you currently fund right now. And you would have maybe just community we all live in. So they make an effort to give back to given them notice that they ought not to invest all the money that their community, and that’s what the purpose of these BRZs is. they were investing on the basis of your word. So right there, I They’ve put in their own money. In the particular projects that mean, that’s the first problem. the Old Strathcona Business Association has been ineligible to get The second thing is: I don’t know how the other BRZs work, funding for, the businesses have put in additional resources above but the ones that you met with told you what they told you, and I and beyond the regular levy that they contribute, which is fun- know that their bylaws, their auditing, their financials are com- neled to them by the municipality. So they put in extra work on pletely transparent, and not once did anybody in your ministry these particular projects, and they’re being penalized. Here’s a contact them and ask for this information. So I find this really hard community organization that is actually being penalized for the to buy, quite frankly. fact that they have set up a systemic regular process of ensuring Mr. Blackett: I’m not sure if anybody in my department con- that there’s other money there that can leverage the public money. tacted them, but I’m telling you one thing: one rule for the BRZ It seems to go absolutely counter to good sense to exclude them that you have given me does not transfer to everyone. We’re not from eligibility for the CIP. going to give one and not be able to give to others because there So I’d like the minister, first of all, to comment on the invest- are inconsistent rules and regulations on how they all operate. ment that was made, to their detriment, on the basis of the That is my responsibility, to make sure that’s there. Until I’m assurances that we received from the minister in that meeting in satisfied that that can be done – understand that the rules with October or November. I’d also like the minister to comment on respect to municipalities having access to government grants are how it is that this makes any kind of sense based on your own made by the Department of Municipal Affairs, and the reason for desire to add community money to taxpayer money when building that was that most of these organizations are eligible for MSI community initiatives. Of course, as you know, the initiatives in funding, which those not-for-profit organizations that I have to this case are all about building the local music industry, which is deal with, most that come through our department aren’t. If we squarely within the terms and the objectives and the mandate of can get assurances that they are a not-for-profit – I went back and your ministry. forth with my department in several different meetings, and I’m Mr. Blackett: Well, Mr. Chairman, the hon. member did meet told that that is not there. with me, and I met with a representative of the business revitaliza- Ms Notley: They’re not eligible for MSI. Just to be clear, these tion zone. I was told at that time that they were not-for-profit organizations don’t get a single cent from the municipality any organizations. We had talked about whether they were a part of more or less than any other community organization, and they’re the municipality, and we were told they were not-for-profit or- not eligible for MSIs, so that’s not a legitimate rationale. ganizations. Moreover, you should have told them. You should have told We spent an inordinate amount of time in my department trying them. They went out on a limb. They invested time. They invested to find out through Municipal Affairs and through the different mu- money. Your folks met with each other – and every time they go nicipalities exactly how they’re constituted. Funny enough, there is off and meet with each other they get confused – but they didn’t not one municipality that has the same type of governance, the same actually sit down and talk to the people that they were providing type of rules. They don’t disclose. You have to dig very, very deeply the inaccurate information about. It’s perfectly possible to come within the municipalities – and I’m not making this up – very, very up with a set of standards for all the BRZs and say: okay, the deeply to find the information as to if they get funding, how the BRZs will not be exempted providing they meet these standards of funding flows through. Not everybody works like the city of Ed- auditing or whatever. But there was no thought put into that. There monton. We’re talking about a policy that would be – if I say that was no consultation. There was no discussion with them. Mean- that’s for that BRZ, then the next BRZ says that that’s a precedent. while, they went off and invested all of this money. 4:40 So it’s not an indication of a good track record of managing an It was hard to get that information. They are governed by the issue on the part of your staff. I don’t have a lot of time left, but I 530 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011 do think that we’ll go on about this in a different forum because I I want to quickly go to human rights. The workload at the Hu- think the record that we’ve got thus far is really not something that man Rights Commission is continuing to go up. We’ve had a 25 anyone in your office should be particularly proud of. per cent increase in ongoing open files. Over the last two years I’d like to go very quickly to the issue briefly raised by the hon. we’ve got the number of complaints going up. We’ve got all that Member for Airdrie-Chestermere. Now, he seemed prepared to stuff. In the last two rounds of estimates you indicated that there accept that it was reasonable that you would just maybe in the would be new intake officers hired, and then last year you said future give us notice of cheques being presented in our ridings. I you meant to, but it never happened. Now this year we’ve got the have to say that, I mean, in response to the questions that I asked same budget line item with no increases. So my question to you is: last year, we got a list of the 25 or so cheque presentation events is it acceptable to you that the wait times go up between 10 and 20 that occurred, the 40 Conservative MLAs who were invited to per cent every year under your watch, that the number of unre- them, and it’s very clear that no opposition MLAs were invited to solved cases over the course of the year goes up every year under them. It was indicated that there were press releases on the minis- your watch? Is that acceptable? Or when exactly are we going to try website that announced these events every time they happened, see some improvements with respect to the functioning of the so it’s clear that ministry resources are going to help organize Human Rights Commission? these events, but no opposition MLAs are being invited. Does the minister not understand how the average taxpayer Mr. Blackett: Well, Mr. Chairman, first of all, the Human Rights would look at that expenditure of communications resources and Commission and the numbers: they go up and down each year. event-organizing resources and see that opposition MLAs are Last year they were higher, the year before they were less, and the being excluded, government MLAs are being included, and tax- year before they were higher. What has happened, though, is that payer dollars, not PC Party dollars but taxpayer dollars, are going when we changed the Alberta human rights act, one of the provi- to do that and not believe that it creates an overall picture of a sions we put in there is that the Human Rights Commission would certain amount of corruption? Do you not see how the average not see a case unless it’s seen in another forum. taxpayer would be quite offended by that expenditure of their The Deputy Chair: The twenty minutes has elapsed. taxpayer dollars? The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. Mr. Blackett: Well, Mr. Chairman, I don’t see why the average 4:50 taxpayer would be offended because no money is expended on Ms Blakeman: Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman. I’m pleased to communications for those. The events are usually organized by have an opportunity to complete, I hope, my questions. the organizations themselves, the primary reason being that it is I’m just going to go back and pick up where I left off, which for their benefit to have the fact that they have a program that’s was around the cultural workers. Part of the point that I was trying being given funding or a building that’s being given funding to – to make there – and the minister acknowledges that we did not get that’s matching funds. They still have to find dollars from the in on the 2010 federal survey of cultural workers. But part of the corporate community or individual donors, and we help do that, reason why – and this is what I was talking about last year – is that just like we did this weekend with the Calgary Immigrant Educa- there is no designated organization in Alberta that is representative tional Society. We did it with the Community Kitchen, and we did of cultural workers that has the stamp of approval or the recogni- it with Cubs, that deal with poverty. A lot of people don’t know tion from the government that they will listen to the group. those organizations exist. Therefore, we can’t send anyone. So what did we bring? We brought a backdrop, we brought a We keep getting asked by the feds: “Who are you sending? Is it big cheque, and we showed up. I don’t know what communica- PACE? Is it the Edmonton Arts Council?” which isn’t appropriate, tions dollars that required other than a press release that went out, “Is it the Calgary cultural development authority?” which again is and we generate press releases every other day. There was no not appropriate because it’s municipally based. And CPAA is huge expenditure. There was no huge highfalutin promotional gone now. But there needs to be an organization in which the gov- material or mechanism or development for this. We just went out ernment recognizes that if they designate workers to go from that and handed out a cheque because we are the government of Al- organization, the feds will pay for it. They’ll pay to fly people to berta. We are representatives of the government of Alberta, so we the meetings. But without the understanding or the signed memo- go and present a cheque that the government of Alberta gave randum of agreement or whatever that the government is going to them. That’s it. listen to them when they come back from the meeting, we can’t Ms Notley: That’s exactly right. You are the government of Al- send anybody. So that needs to be resolved, whoever is responsi- berta. You are the government of Alberta using government of ble for that. Alberta funds, and you are only inviting Progressive Conservative This is indicative of how long I’ve been elected that I just take it MLAs to it, and that’s where it goes wrong. That’s where it’s as kind of normal that the government MLAs get to be in on this dirty. It’s dirty, dirty, dirty. And just to be clear, you have whole cheque thing. I appreciate the Member for Airdrie- $525,000 in your communications budget this year, so money Chestermere bringing it up. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Minister, does go on it. that we in the opposition do not get a list in advance in which we I used to work in a minister’s office. I know how much work can choose to write a letter of support, in which there is a list of goes into organizing these events. I know that the staff have to call applications. We don’t. What we get is a listing after the fact, and to make sure that, you know, the podium is there and the people sometimes way after the fact, that says: you should be thrilled there that have been invited and that the backdrop is there. Work because in Edmonton-Centre all of these people got grants. goes into organizing those things. Don’t try to pretend it doesn’t. I actually go through that list, and I’m sure someone in your It’s taxpayers’ dollars that do it. They’re there to promote Conser- department reported back to you that I was asking about a couple vative MLAs, and you’re using taxpayers’ dollars to do it, and of cases because there were groups that got money that aren’t they should be offended. from my constituency. The answer back was: “Yes, that’s true. They’re located, you know, on 170th Street, but they were doing March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 531 an event in Victoria park, which is in your constituency, which is Now, let me go back. The other thing you were talking about why they got funded.” I do look at that list, but I don’t get it in was the film industry, and you talked a lot about what the minister advance ever, so I have no opportunity to write those letters of believes he’s been able to effect as changes. There was a change support. So I would appreciate it if the minister could address that in the grant structure, and the existing scheme was changed as he is slowly unraveling the partisanship of these grants. slightly. The minister has talked about how this is much better, but This is not a government pot of money. The money that we I’d like to know if contracts have been signed because one of the approve as this Legislative Assembly is approved by the Legisla- things in this industry is that there’s a lot of talk. My goodness, tive Assembly to go forward. It’s not government. It’s not caucus they’re good at talking. I’d like to know if we’ve actually got funds. It’s not party funds. It’s funds from the Legislative Assem- signed contracts for some of the projects he’s been talking about bly, and the members of the government are cabinet. So if you to go forward. Do we know if we’ve been able to woo any want to have a cabinet member go out and represent the govern- projects away from B.C. or New Mexico or Saskatchewan? That ment, the big G government, to hand out a cheque, fair enough, would be a lovely feather in the minister’s cap. Have we got any but to have the big cartoon cheques – I’ll tell you, at one point signed contracts there? they had the big cartoon cheques, and members actually wrote Here’s something I heard about this morning. There are a their names on them, actually wrote their names as though they couple of projects that have just started shooting in, let me say, cut the cheque. This is a political exercise. As the Member for south of Red Deer because I’m not exactly sure if they’re in Cal- Edmonton-Strathcona said, this is intended to make a distinction gary or just outside of Calgary. The rate they’re paying is half of based on money or the belief that a group will get money only if scale, and on another shoot they’re paying minimum wage. You they support a government member. That’s the point of it. [inter- know, these are trained professionals with years and years and jection] Yeah, it is. That’s why it’s been there for so long. years of experience. I would be very upset to hear that the government was co-operating with a film company that was coming [Mr. Lund in the chair] in and taking advantage of our workers because there’s so little So let’s unravel this. Let’s take the partisanship out of it be- work out there that they are taking jobs at minimum wage. cause the closer we get to an election, the worse the government I don’t think that’s what the minister is trying to do here. I don’t members, including backbenchers, look on this one. Interestingly, think it reflects well on us in allowing a company to come in and grant amounts often go up closer to an election. People are going basically undercut our workers and to pay them far below what to start calling you on this one, so the faster you can unpartisan- they’re worth. If you can possibly look into that and make sure ship it, the better. Included in that would be that notification in that we haven’t funded them, and if we have, use that big stick. advance so that we can give you information or write letters of That’s what it’s for. support. It would be very polite, when you come into my constitu- The second thing I have is that he mentioned the tourism spinoff ency to hand out a cheque, if you let me know in advance. When I on having films shot in Alberta. Very true. But one of the things go to your constituencies, I let you know I’m there. It’s a courtesy. that is a distinction on that is: it is what it is. Fort Macleod was And you’re using it for political reasons. You know, that’s why Fort Macleod in Brokeback Mountain. That’s partly why people you’ve got the big cartoon cheque. I mean, you’re trying to get go there. They didn’t pretend that it was someplace else. I don’t your photo in the paper. That’s the point. But it would be very think they ever specified, actually, where they were shooting that. courteous if you would let the local members know so they could I’m getting a little tired of having film companies come in and attend, and I would appreciate that as well. then pretend that we’re Toronto or London or somewhere else. It’s I want to talk about the Varscona Theatre as well. The city of much more helpful for us tourism dollars wise if they come in and Edmonton has been waiting and holding onto their grant money. I say: “Yeah, it’s Edmonton” or “Yeah, it’s Red Deer” or “It’s out- think they’ve ponied up $2 million. I think the feds are in for $2 side of Balzac” or whatever. million. Everybody is waiting on the province. Now, I gather I’m wondering if out of all that money you’ve devoted to policy you’ve just ironed that out as I sat here and listened, that the mi- development there are ways of using some of that to encourage or nister will be open to or will pave the way for the Varscona to put it in as part of the incentive sign-off with the contracts that Theatre consortium to approach the appropriate caucus or caucus it . . . [A timer sounded] Oh. Ten minutes because we’re splitting policy committee or however you guys organize that stuff to do it. Sorry. Thank you. We agreed that we would both do it. this. But I just want to point out to the minister that money was found to support Vertigo Theatre in Calgary, money was found to The Acting Chair: Back and forth? support the Grand theatre in Calgary, and in Edmonton we lost the Ms Blakeman: Back and forth. Yeah. Kaasa. Part of the reason why the Varscona has so much activity I’ll let you answer some of those questions, and we’ll keep go- in it is because it is one of the only theatres. Very soon Catalyst is ing. Thanks. going to lose its space, and that will be, you know, next to Theatre Network, one of our only. It’s not considered a medium-sized 5:00 theatre, by the way. It’s 175 seats, so it’s an F scale, I think. Mr. Blackett: Okay. Thank you. A single voice for the arts: one There is a distinct lack of equality between the two cities. The of the things we found in the dialogue session was exactly that. minister will be quick to say: well, that was then and this is now, You’ve got sports organizations and you’ve got other organiza- and times are tough and friends are few. Well, the funding at the tions where they’ve got regional bodies that flow into a provincial time that Vertigo got it was not so great. That was a tough time as body, and then you have a collective voice. We don’t have that well. I really think that the government needs to step up on this yet, and we need one that will be able to speak for the sector as a one. They’ve been asking for a long time. They’ve been fund rais- whole and do exactly what you’re talking about. That’s something ing for a long time. It’s very important to the theatre community in that we have on our list to go forward to try to create, and hope- Edmonton, and I would appreciate it if we could get that matching fully we can do that in time for the next meeting. We will work money and make it roll forward. So thank you for allowing me to with that. I hadn’t had that brought to me, so I didn’t know about put that on the record. that, but now that it’s on my radar, we’ll definitely look at that. 532 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011

[Mr. Mitzel in the chair] because – this is in the estimates on page 98 – it appears to have a very high amount of money with sort of no backup for it. I’m Your other point, though, about cheque presentations and this wondering if you can explain that because it has no form of reve- and that and the other thing. We had sent out letters – I signed nue, particularly, so where is the investment supposed to come them in January – that went out to every opposition MLA that said from? It’s actually up 325 per cent from ’09-10, so exactly everything in the quarter that was coming up for review. I sent out where’s that going to come from? I would appreciate if I could get every single one of them, and they will go out every quarter. We that comment. That’s terrific. Thank you. make decisions by quarter now as opposed to letting everything Further to what’s happening in the NGO volunteer-based sector, wait till the end of the year. We sent out a letter, and I will go I was going through the newsletter from the Calgary Chamber of trace those letters and present a copy tomorrow. I sent one out to Voluntary Organizations. This goes back to that capacity issue every opposition member, and I will continue to do so. that I keep raising. If you look on page 3 of their newsletter, they We have the records. After decisions are made, we put them on show a graph that shows that the change in government policies or our website. We very much believe in transparency. There’s noth- priorities was 58 per cent of the factors impacting voluntary or- ing untoward there. Your point is well taken about the fact that a ganizations, so a huge effect on those organizations. grant is based on where the event took place as opposed to where As well, we’re still struggling in the voluntary charitable sector the location of the actual organization is, which makes no sense to with the difference in salaries between what the comparable posi- me, so I will look into that and make sure we rectify that one. tion is that’s paid through the government if they were on the In terms of film and taking advantage of workers, I had an ex- government payroll as a social worker versus being a social work- cellent meeting with the head of AMPIA and Mr. Damian Petti on er with foster parents or something like that. In this one it’s a Friday and when we were in L.A. and subsequent conversations newspaper article of a woman who works for the Bow Cliff Se- after that. We want our workers to be employed. We want them to niors’ centre. Yeah. “We just can’t magically get it done on these be well paid. We want them to make a living so they can actually salaries with this expectation of professionalism” because she stay here. Whether they rent a place or they own a place, they keeps getting people wooed away, so that continues to be a factor should be able to do that like anybody else does. I would never for us in this area. advocate anybody going and taking advantage of our talent and I’m moving on to heritage now. There was a cut in heritage. paying them minimum wage. I can’t even believe that you can get What action has the ministry taken to ensure that the ministry sites away with that. So I would love to have more information. If don’t degrade to the point where we’re in the same position that somebody can provide those examples to me, we’ll certainly take we are currently with infrastructure, where there has had to be a a look at those. I think that answers that. huge influx of money to make up for what wasn’t put in there on a The Deputy Chair: The hon. member. regular maintenance basis? What is the minister doing there to help under heritage? Ms Blakeman: Thanks. I found it, and in fact we were issued a Finally, the Royal Alberta Museum. What the heck is going on list on December 20, 2010, of applications that were being consid- there? Who is it that’s asking for two sites? If it was a politician, ered for CFEP and CIP grants from the 1st of October 2010 to they would have jumped in front of every camera there was, and December 31, 2010. I’m not sure how that’s in advance. That nobody has ever jumped in front of a camera saying: I’m the one would have given me 10 days left in the quarter, and everything that’s pushing for a second site. So who’s pushing for this? This else had already passed. So the minister may well be signing this doesn’t make sense. We’ve got a perfectly good site. We own it. in September, but I didn’t see it in my office until December 20 There was a good plan. They redid it. There was a second good for a quarter that went from the 1st of October to the end of De- plan. Now that one seems to have been punted for some reason. cember, okay? You can understand the frustration on this side as a Now we’re talking about two plans. I’d like a detailed breakdown result of that. Thank you for allowing me that clarification. of how much money the province is going to put in this year, next Now, let me keep moving on here. The cultural community and year, and year 3; how much money the feds are putting in this volunteer support services. I’m very interested in what is in the year, next year, and year 3. Where did this come from that we are other initiatives because although this minister probably doesn’t – going to build a second site here, and what is the justification for well, okay. Here’s a little historical vignette. There are a couple of that? What’s the business case for it? people on your side that I know will have been around long I’ve never seen anything that backs this up. It’s just a bunch of enough to know what this was. This amount of money: at one time rumour that I’ve asked and asked about. It was denied, denied, I got the minister to admit that there was no application form for denied, and then the minister said: “Oh, yeah. Definitely. That’s other initiatives, there was no deadline for other initiatives, and where we’re going to go.” So let’s hear about that. Let’s hear the decision was exclusively by the minister. There was no appeal about it, Minister. Go for it. process. It was essentially a slush fund. I’m wondering what exactly is in other initiatives this year. It Mr. Blackett: Great questions. First of all, other initiatives. Now, has been cut by quite a bit. The actual for ’09-10 was $10.1 mil- it’s quite interesting that you would mention that we’re reducing lion. It was budgeted for $6.5 million, but it actually looks like our fund that you refer to as a slush fund. I don’t think of it as a $10.6 million was spent in the ’10-11 year, and – whoa – a mas- slush fund. Other initiatives program is set there for those pro- sive cut to $4.1 million, so it’s losing about 6 and a half million grams, those organizations who can’t get money through the dollars out of other initiatives. Now, I know that’s going to go up regular process. Now, that includes that this year we will have the and down with how much money is extra there. But if he could Canadian country music awards. We will have the Western Cana- please tell me what he spent it on this year and what is the list of dian Music Awards. The Canadian country music awards are initiatives he’s expecting to spend it on. He did give me a list last going to be in Edmonton for three consecutive years, so we’ve year. Where can we find the final reports of what was funded committed to that. The Two Hills Community Centre, the Edmon- through other initiatives last year so we know what those are? ton Triathlon Academy; $3 million to the Art Gallery of Alberta, The Wild Rose Foundation. I’m a little quizzical about this somewhat of a worthy cause . . . March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 533

5:10 grant resources are dispersed appropriately and that required follow up reporting is competed on behalf of all communities. The Deputy Chair: Hon. minister, the 20 minutes has elapsed. Then it shows exactly the CIP grant request for each community: The hon. Member for Airdrie-Chestermere. Are you going to Red Deer, $37,500; Airdrie, $13,500; Chestermere, $13,000; share the time back and forth? Drumheller, $11,000. Then it says how the funds are going to be Mr. Anderson: Okay. Thanks. Back and forth, please. All right. used. Essentially, they were saying: look; the members for I’ve been listening intently, very interesting information. I want Drumheller-Stettler, Red Deer-South, Red Deer-North have com- to go back to the issue. I want to get something done today, and I mitted to supporting this project, so we’re just waiting to see what appreciate very much the minister agreeing to give some prior you say about the project. notification to opposition MLAs to cheque presentations. I do Again, I have to say, whether this was going on without your think that that’s a good step in the right direction, and I look for- knowledge or not, Minister, that there was not a time that I didn’t ward to receiving my first update in that regard. support a project on a specific dollar amount that was not accepted The second portion that I wanted to get to – we got cut off when by the CIP, CFEP grant programs. I will swear an affidavit oath to we were going back and forth on it. When I say that we should get that effect. That is absolutely true. the opportunity to give some input into a project before its final So we have this situation here, and all I would like to see, in approval, I wanted to make sure that the minister understood that I addition to the notifications, is just to have this document, that I’ll wasn’t asking as an MLA for a unilateral yes or no authority on table tomorrow, that’s sent out to government MLAs sent out to us whether or not a project is approved. That’s not what I’m asking at so that we can see that: “Okay. This one here is still under review. all. This would be a good time. I’m going to call them up.” It even has There’s a sheet – and, again, I’ll table all these documents to- a contact person for the grant, so you can call them and say: morrow. Anybody on that side of the House will recognize these “What’s this grant all about? Is it something we need? What’s the sheets. What it does is that it goes through all of the different pro- deal? What’s it for?” It allows us to do our homework to see if we jects that are in the queue, essentially, and it shows their project want to support the grant or not. status. It will give the name of the applicant, the date the applica- If we could even just get this or whatever you’re sending now to tion was received, and its application number. It will give the your individual government MLAs, I think, certainly, that would project’s status. In other words, on some of them there’s a cheque be a very good step in the right direction, as you already have that’s been given out – this is July 22, 2008 – and it gives the taken with allowing for notification, if indeed you follow up with grant request, the approved amount, and whether the funds have that. This would be, I think, a way that we could move forward. I been paid out or not. It goes through that. It goes through each know that I would and our caucus would be completely happy individual one. with that. We think that would be a fair arrangement. The project status is included: cheque given out, in the minis- If we need to talk about the grant programs – I know the Liber- ter’s office, under tech review, review 1, evaluation. It has these als and others have talked about different ways to do it. You could different kinds of project statuses that it’s at. Then at the very end have a community organization or something like that, and that’s here there’s a summary status of project application. It will say: fine. Maybe we can have that debate in the future, but for the pur- this is how much is in process, and these are the total amount of poses of right now under the current system that we have, could funds that have been paid out and declined. Then there’s a rolling we have the same document that’s sent to government MLAs sent total. There’s a three-year total. This is how much you have left in to opposition MLAs? your three years because it’s over three years. Then this is how Mr. Blackett: Well, I can answer that quite quickly. On January much you have left this year, so in this case it’s $416,000. That’s 17 we sent out a letter to all opposition MLAs with a report, and the document. that went out to all government MLAs. It was all of those applica- When I would get this, what would happen is that I would look tions that came forward in the last quarter of 2010 and the first at the projects. The community liaison officer would call me or quarter of 2011 that decisions will be made on, so decisions that call my assistant every month and say: “Okay. We need to go are going to be made now before the end of this month. That letter through it. This one is under tech review, and this one is under went out on the 17th of January. evaluation” et cetera. They would say: “We’ve done everything There will be another letter that will go out in the first month of that we need to do on our side. Now we’re just waiting for your the next quarter – so it will go out in April – which will be all the comments.” applications that we’ve received for the first quarter of 2011, That’s what Cheryl Dalwood, the civil servant, was talking where decisions will be made by approximately June of 2011. about in this e-mail I have here. That’s the consistent approach that we will continue on with. I Just wondering if Rob has had an opportunity to review this funding request yet? Drumheller, Red Deer South and Red Deer will be happy to table those letters that we sent on the 17th of North have committed to support their part of the event. Please January. We will continue to do that because we believe in being let me know as soon as possible. open and transparent and consistent. There are others. I’ve got two or three others here like that. Mr. Anderson: Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. The letter that In the previous e-mail it says: I think the minister is referring to, the one that got sent to myself, Hi Donna. That’s my assistant. is this one, and I’ll table that as well. It does have part of the in- Would you please forward this information to Rob for his formation that the government MLAs get. It has the application consideration of CIP funding? The total CIP grant request for number, the date that it’s received – that’s consistent with what the Airdrie-Chestermere constituency [in this case] is $26,500. was handed out before – the name of the applicant, the contact The CIP application is being coordinated by The City of person, and the project status, so under evaluation. Absolutely. Red Deer with each community organizing their own respective Now, the only thing it doesn’t include – and this is what would celebration. The City of Red Deer will ensure that allocated be helpful so that we could see what was available – is that on the one that was sent out to MLAs it has a summary status of project 534 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011 application. It will tell you at the bottom how many total funds office has always been open. It’s been open to any opposition mem- have been paid out to this constituency. In this case it’s $115,000 ber who wants to come and discuss a particular application. I have at this point. That allows you, of course, to deduce how much is no evidence from anyone that says that that’s been incorrect. So if left in the minister’s budget for this constituency. you have a particular instance, come and see me. 5:20 Mr. Anderson: Okay. Fair enough. Well, can I get this commit- This is very useful because if you have, you know, four schools ment, then, Minister: in addition to getting these quarterly reports, or something that you know are going to bring forward play- which you’re sending in the current form, can I at least have a ground applications, for grants to help with building a playground, commitment from you that my assistant or our constituency assis- you can put a letter together and say: “You know what, Mr. Minis- tants can call your ministry any time during operating hours and ter? This is what I would recommend. There are these two schools get the amount of the application request from them just by asking that are upcoming. I would recommend that maybe we should them verbally? And can they get the amount of money remaining make sure everyone is treated the same and that they each get in the pot for the specific constituency of Airdrie-Chestermere? If $30,000 or $40,000 or whatever, the same amount, et cetera.” Or they’re not going to get it on this, can they at least call in and ask you could say, “Given that there’s only about $50,000 left in the that question as any government member would be able to do and budget and we have two people applying for the grants, could I get an answer to that? Is that a fair compromise? suggest that we be equal and do $25,000 and $25,000?” It just helps us to make a proper recommendation, a well-thought-out Mr. Blackett: Mr. Chairman, the answer to that is an unequivocal recommendation as MLAs. no. We have gone and we have given him information. There you The other thing that this is missing besides the total funds paid go. We’re not going to spend time in our department. with staff out is the grant request amount. I don’t know, for example – on that are doing an important job, trying to go back and forth be- here it does not say how much the grant was for. It just has the cause of opposition queries and get into the minutiae of it. You contact person, the project status – these are all good things to support an application, or you don’t support an application. That’s have – but it doesn’t have what the actual amount of the grant the most information that we’ve ever given an opposition member. was. So could those two things be included in these quarterly let- If that’s not good enough, that’s not good enough. ters that you send out? Mr. Anderson: Okay. Well, I guess what would not waste the Mr. Blackett: Well, Mr. Speaker, when we first talked about it, time of staff, Mr. Minister, is if you just put the number in like what you had asked for, we had given you. You don’t need to you do for the government MLAs. If you just put that in the know what the dollar amounts are. You know the program, and document, that would save your ministry’s office all the time and every opposition member knows how it works. You prioritize effort. There would be no need for my assistant to call and ask which ones you think are important, that you want to support. If because it would be right there, just like it is for every government you see three playgrounds, say: please don’t allocate all the MLA. I guess I would ask: why is it appropriate, Mr. Minister, for money. a government MLA to call in and get that information on demand, Give us a list of priorities. I mean, we can certainly do that. We but I as an opposition MLA cannot call in and get that informa- don’t have to get into the minutiae of how we’re going to allocate tion? How do you justify that inconsistency, that double standard? dollars. Mr. Blackett: Well, Mr. Chairman, first of all, opposition MLAs Mr. Anderson: All right. Well, I guess that’s one way of looking can call in and get that information. Secondly, if the hon. member at it. I guess the other way of looking at it is that if I have a – let’s wants to get the same privileges as a government MLA, he should say that in Chestermere, for example, the Chestermere yacht club have thought about that before he left our caucus and walked got a grant last year. Didn’t know anything about it. It was just across the floor. given out to them, the Chestermere yacht club. That’s fine. It was quite a substantial grant. Mr. Anderson: Okay. That’s an interesting response. There were some other grants that were being applied for at the Clearly, what the minister did say is that I can call at any time. time, and if I had seen the size of the grant, I maybe would have Is that right? Can I or my staff call anytime to ask for that infor- said: “You know what? Why is this so large?” Maybe I should call mation? Is that what I heard? You seemed to say that I could. Is them and say: is this a priority for the constituency, or are there that not the case? My staff can call and get that answer. Is that some playgrounds or some equipment or some event, maybe the right? pro rodeo or whatever, that would be more important? In other Mr. Blackett: Mr. Chairman, he may be a lawyer, and I’m not a words, if you have the Chestermere yacht club asking for money lawyer, but I’m not being fooled. Let’s be perfectly clear. I said and I say that I support the project, then what am I supporting? that if you’ve got a specific instance and a question about a par- Am I supporting something for 50 bucks, a hundred bucks, a thou- ticular project that you need support on, call me, and I will help sand bucks, $10,000, $150,000? I don’t know. How can I know to you with that discussion. I’m not going to provide all of the par- support it or not, you know, or if there are any red flags that I ticulars and financial information because you don’t need it. should be looking at? The only thing missing on this sheet that is on the government Mr. Anderson: Mr. Chair, that’s fine. I will take you up on that one is just the application request amount. If it’s a hundred thou- offer, Mr. Minister; I promise you. sand dollars, $90,000, it would be literally just another column on Why do the government members need the information but I as the sheet. Then the opposition MLAs would get the same as the an opposition member do not need that information? Why? government MLAs, and it’s all good. Is that possible, Minister? What’s the reason?

Mr. Blackett: Mr. Chairman, I’m not going to repeat myself. As I Mr. Blackett: Mr. Chairman, the process is that applications are said to the hon. member, we have that report that you have, so you’ll submitted, and the CLO looks for those and makes sure that they have an idea of what’s coming forward in your constituency. My March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 535 meet the criteria that I outlined before: that the project is viable, under that is going toward that Calgary Creative Hub? The Cal- that the matching funds are there and they’re actually accounted gary media Creative Hub or some variation on that theme is what for, and that there’s community support. For government members it’s called. the importance of the money towards them doesn’t matter either. I’m also wondering. I mean, it’s a pretty big deal. How come [interjection] No. You’re talking about a process that may have it’s not in the ministry plan? Or is it in the three-year plan? This been in place at whatever time you’re referring to. I’m telling you isn’t a three-year budget projection particularly, but if it is part of that there’s a different operation method today, and we stand by a three-year plan, could he lay that out for us? And what exactly is that. the government’s role going to be in this? It’s always been a bit of a sticky wicket, this one, because the Edmonton film studio was Mr. Anderson: Okay. All right. Well, we’ll continue to call. I privately funded entirely and has since been bought by a different think that any Albertan looking at this objectively would say that group and is being operated differently. It’s a large outlay of it would be fair for an opposition member to make the same re- money to actually build one of these, and it’s been a struggle. quest as a government member with regard to getting information Over the years – I don’t know – there’s probably been four or from the minister in this regard, that it would only be fair that that five of these Calgary studios that I’ve heard were going to be be respected. built, and it’s always an extraordinary amount of money, which You said earlier, though, real quickly, that I should have usually is enough to stop it, and eventually it all trickles away. thought about whether I wanted to have access to that information Then four or five years later you get another version of it. So I’m or not before I crossed the floor. Should my constituency be feel- hopeful that this one is successful, but if I could get a bit more ing that way, too? Is my constituency going to be punished in any detail about what the government’s involvement in it is and what way because I decided to cross the floor, Mr. Minister? That the money is and where the money is, that would be terrific. seemed to be what you were indicating there. Okay. Go ahead and answer those questions.

Mr. Blackett: Well, Mr. Chairman, I said that if you wanted the Mr. Blackett: First of all, I think other initiatives, we’re getting privileges of a government member, then you’d have to be in the through that. We will be more than happy to send you a list of all government to get those privileges. of those. And very similar to the list that we talked about last time, Airdrie-Chestermere nor any other riding has ever been pun- it’s the Canadian Theatre Festival Society, the Magnetic North ished for having an opposition MLA. As I stated earlier, conference for part of the Calgary 2012 bid, the Olympic tribute opposition-held ridings get a disproportionately higher amount of gala at Commonwealth Stadium, the Atlas Coal Mine Historical money in their ridings than anyone else does. I dare you to show Society, the Glenbow Museum, the Alberta Sports Hall of Fame, me where Airdrie-Chestermere has been adversely affected by Alberta Creative Hub, to which last year we gave $1.2 million. anything that we have done. The mayor, Peter Brown, and the We will gladly give you a copy of those. people that I met with on Saturday were very, very happy and Your next point was about the Wild Rose Foundation and where very, very appreciative of the fact that the government of Alberta that money came from. We have an $8 million endowment for was still there to support them whether they had a government that, and the $325,000 would be interest on that on an annual ba- member or not. sis. We use that money towards the Vitalize conference, and then We’ll continue to do the great work for Albertans and provide the ministry tops up the difference. I think this past year it was the programs that are there for all Albertans, irrespective of who about 700 and some thousand dollars that we spent on Vitalize, so they voted for, because that’s the right thing to do. $325,000 or thereabouts would have come out of this endowment fund interest, and then we would top up the rest of it. Mr. Anderson: I appreciate that. I’m glad that the folks in In terms of the voluntary sector – I’m trying to remember be- Airdrie-Chestermere won’t be penalized. That’s definitely a good cause we’ve gone back and forth. The salary levels: that’s always thing. If it wasn’t that way, it would certainly have the taint of been a problem, the wage gap for the people that are in the sector corruption, wouldn’t it? I would just say that I’d like to put on the versus any other industry or any other sector, especially oil and record one final time that even though the hon. Member for gas when you’re in Calgary, the professional sector here in Ed- Edmonton-Centre and myself are members of an opposition party, monton versus government workers. We have a human resources we still represent the people that voted for us, and we still fight for strategy process that we’re going through right now to try to deal them on a daily basis. Having the information available to us is with some of that and come up with some concrete measures be- important in order to do that. cause, again, that’s something that’s repeatedly brought up in the 5:30 dialogue sessions. In the 30-some years I’ve been involved in the The Deputy Chair: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. sector that’s continued to be a problem. We talked about the heritage sites. We have $2.3 million in Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much. Well, this certainly became capital toward the heritage sites. We will continue to do what we an interesting discussion this afternoon. All kinds of information can toward making sure that they’re up to date, but we do not have on the record that we weren’t able to get on the record before. a large outlay at this particular time for any large capital-intensive I’d just like to pick up where I was and continue now. I think projects. Under voted capital investment by program, page 84, it the minister probably still has a list of questions he hasn’t an- says $2 million there, and if you look under capital investment by swered, so let me add to his list. We were talking about the RAM; program, page 89, under heritage, it’s $2.330 million. The other that’s right. I’m also interested in and I’m sure the minister has $2 million is a voted amount. noted my questions on the hub in Calgary. Is there any money Now, with respect to RAM, we have $50 million budgeted for from this budget that is going toward that Calgary media hub? I this coming year, this fiscal period, $70 million for ’12-13, and remember that last year there was a sum of $10 million, and then $60 million for ’13-14 for a total of $180 million. You mentioned when I questioned him in the budget debate, it was less than that. about the two-museum concept. That’s something that was men- I’m just wondering if there is any money in this budget, and if tioned back – I remember the Premier mentioning it – in there is, how much is it, and which vote number does it appear December 2009. The original design for the very large building at 536 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011 the Glenora site totally encompassed Government House. It was ’13-14. Could he please give me what the federal money is for not respectful of it. That Government House is an icon, a heritage that, or is the federal money part of the money you just gave me? piece, and we had this huge monstrosity just completely over- If it is, break it out. If it’s not, could you tell me how much it is, shadowing that. We looked at doing it all in one or looking at two please? different sites because the costs were comparable. I’d also like to see the business plan for the RAM. If you have We’ve moved forward. Right now we’re focused on finishing enough information to be able to give me the reasoning you just the Acheson site because when we start construction and we have gave me, there must be a business plan somewhere. So can I get to close the museum for a period of time, we’ve got to have a that business plan, please? place to be able to put all our artifacts. That will be the Acheson I’d also like to see the business plan that was submitted to the site, and hopefully that will be completed this fall. We need that in feds and the city of Calgary on the hub project. I’d like to know order to be able to move to the next step. how much the contract was for that went to the Lawson Projects. Lastly, the Creative Hub. Yeah, it’s a great deal of money, but I’m sorry; I may not have that name exactly right. I’ve got Law- it’s something that we need. This spring we’ve got Heartland son, but I’m not sure if I got the second bit exactly correct. Sorry coming for its fifth season, and working out of warehouse space is about that. inadequate. We have Hell on Wheels, a production for AMC, the The Acheson site for the RAM: my understanding is that it will American network, through Nomadic Pictures here. That’s going be a storage facility, not a visitation facility. So for how long is it to start filming, I think, next month. Then, we have the Sam Steele expected that Albertans and tourists coming from out of province, movie for CBC by Knight productions along with Nancy Laing. out of the city I suppose, would not have access to the exhibits? That’s going to be filming here, starting sometime in May. So we Why was the choice made to do that so that it was not accessible need this kind of space. rather than putting it into another exhibition space where it was It’s Calgary Economic Development that actually will manage accessible? Let me just give you a quick example of that. We had going forward. It’s a not-for-profit entity that we’ve set up. We the Edmonton Art Gallery that relocated for the period of three put $1.2 million toward that last year, and that was to come up years, I guess, that it took to build the new Art Gallery of Alberta. with a governance structure, come up with a not-for-profit organi- The concept is understood here. It’s been done before. I’m just zation that the money would flow through from all levels of wondering why the choice was made by the department to essen- government. That was also for hiring a consulting firm. Lawson tially shut down the museum and store it as compared to keeping Projects, which is a combination architectural firm, engineering some part of it going. I can see his staff nodding, so there’s obvi- firm, and real estate expertise, went and looked at the site that we ously an answer there. had looked at and chose, Canada Olympic Park, to see if that was The historic sites: Turner Valley gas plant, Bitumount, and the best site and looked at all the other prospective ones. It was Greenhill mine. Can I get an update on that, please? One, I want close proximity to the mountains on the way out to Banff and only an update on the status of those sites. Two, are there contracts in 20 minutes from downtown Calgary. place between the departments of Health, Environment, and Cul- 5:40 ture? Turner Valley gas plant for sure has had a boatload of problems with pollution, essentially whether it was safe for people They have come up with a business plan. They had the different to go there, and various environmental studies were done. There levels of government take a look at it to make sure that it was were questions about whether they were done appropriately, feasible. That’s the federal government and the city of Calgary. It whether they were done at the right time of year, whether they also asked 60 representatives from the industry whether they were done when the water was high or low, and how it affected would participate and to which level they would participate in the the wells in the nearby area. I’m just wondering where we’re at new Creative Hub if it was established. Overwhelmingly they said with that. that they would, to the point where 45,000 square feet of office I think Dingman 1 was just shut down. I can see somebody space has already been spoken for. We don’t have any money in moving over there, so they know what I’m talking about. I’d like this particular budget for that, so I would have to go through the to know what is happening with the restoration of that. Who is the process of asking Treasury Board for those dollars, and we ha- lead out of the three departments? Where does the buck stop? ven’t had a chance to do that. But that’s a number one capital What are the timelines for achieving nirvana or whatever the ac- priority after the Royal Alberta Museum in my department. ceptable state is? As well, are there any outstanding studies or Ms Blakeman: And the Varscona? remediation that needs to happen there? The minister answered my question about long-term plans to Mr. Blackett: The Varscona will be third. ensure ongoing maintenance of historic sites in that there is money that covers the regular maintenance of those. Thank you for doing Ms Blakeman: Seriously? The Varscona Theatre would come that. after this Creative Hub when it’s been in line longer? Okay. We’re coming down the home stretch, guys. [interjection] You’ve been sitting there; I’ve been standing. Mr. Blackett: Yeah. I’ll be glad to tell you why. The last category is human rights. My colleague from Edmonton-Strathcona raised a couple of points around that. Once Ms Blakeman: Well, I’d respectfully disagree with the minister. I again, I see that the total program budget has gone down, but the think the Varscona has been waiting longer, and there’s leveraged administration costs have gone up as a percentage of the total money that’s waiting for it. I don’t know how long the feds and budget. The budget for assistance to human rights in 2011-12 is the city are going to hang onto their money, waiting for the prov- slightly up, but it’s still 8 per cent below the figure for ’09-10, ince to come in on that one. So we could be chucking some money which was the first cut. That appears in the estimates on page 91. there. I would urge you to fund that one faster rather than slower. The minister spoke last year about the “changing multicultural Just a couple of questions that have come out of what the minis- complexities in places like Edmonton and Calgary”. That appears ter just said. He gave me the money that was going into the RAM: in Hansard for the Committee on Community Services, I think, on $50 million this year, $70 million next year, and $60 million in page CS-260. I notice that in Calgary last week we had another March 23, 2011 Alberta Hansard 537 racially motivated demonstration there. Hate crimes are reported them in terms of drawings and those types of things. Of course, as up in all Canadian cities in all of the major categories, so that they share them with us. would be race, religion, and sexual orientation. I’d like to hear the How long? We haven’t determined how long the museum minister’s commentary on that because we do have less money in would have to be shut, so we don’t know how long people would that fund to operate around educational opportunities than we did not have access to that collection. I should point out that the before. Acheson site was there for other museums and their collections as When I looked on the website – and thank you for putting stuff well as RAM. on the website now. Open data is a great thing. It just takes a Turner Valley and Bitumount: I’ve been to them several times. whole bunch of a load off you people from having to go and Great places. In good times we thought we were going to be able scrounge for information for people like me. The number of com- to move ahead with the interpretative centre to coincide with the plaint files that were opened in ’09-10 is up quite a bit from hundredth anniversary of the Turner Valley gas plant, but that’s previous years. It’s 803 compared to 799 – well, that’s not that not possible right now. We have done all the remediation so that much; that’s four – compared to 680. But then when we look at the paths there are walkable. The site is acceptable. We continue open files, as of March 31 it goes from 810 to 941 to 1,000 open to monitor that site through the Ministry of Environment, and they cases. Yikes. Now, the minister put a lot of time and effort into measure that water quality on an ongoing basis. Yes, it’s made the this department in the last year. What kind of results can he boast papers many times, but the levels are natural and, I’m told, ac- to me about how great it’s going? ceptable. When we have the financial wherewithal, hopefully The last point I have to make is a bit of an odd one, but I find it together with industry we will be able to do something in terms of very odd that when I phone people in the minister’s department, I providing a proper interpretive centre there. get a polite but firm, edging towards curt response from whomev- In terms of human rights our budget didn’t go down. I mean, we er I’ve called looking for pretty mundane information – if it was upped it a year ago, and we have kept that consistent. I think it’s politically tricky, I would phone the minister because you know $5.2 million this year. The actual last year was $4.887 million, so how much I like holding him to the hot seat – and I’m always told it’s a slight increase. Part of what we were doing is that we had to by the staff: “I’m sorry. Opposition members are told to phone the get more people in there. We had to have legal representatives for minister’s office or to write a letter in order to get that informa- both the chief commissioner and for the director. We now have a tion.” full-time commissioner to help with the backlog of cases, and we You and I just had the oddest go-around, where I quickly have some additional part-time commissioners. phoned and asked for some statistics on something, the total AFA One of the problems that I was just starting to talk about to the grants that were given out over a nine-year period or something. It Member for Edmonton-Strathcona before the buzzer went is that was quick. At that point it was not on the website, or I would have because of our ruling now that says that the Human Rights Com- gotten it myself. I phoned the department. No, I had to write a mission, which has always been a dumping ground for every letter to the minister’s office in order to get that information. I got complaint – 30,000 inquiries come into it. Two thousand actually a kind of snarky letter back from the minister saying: “Well, now, have any merit, and we get about a thousand cases or fewer that really, it’s on the website. You should have gone and gotten it actually go forward. So they are held. If it has to be looked at in from there, but here’s the information that you’re looking for.” I another area or another forum – for instance, occupational health thought: why do I have to phone the minister’s office to get au- and safety – they’ve got to go through that process before they can thority? It’s very clear that that happens because I’m an opposition come back to the Human Rights Commission. But that file is left member. as open because it’s not resolved. We just have to find a different 5:50 mechanism of actually showing that. We do have fewer cases, but because of that rule – and we’ve Now, we’ve had a lot of discussion today about the different moved some cases that are actually in other areas being resolved treatment between opposition members and government members. before they come back – it looks like there are actually more. At a certain point this starts to creep into the area of privilege. I’m We’ll continue to reduce those cases. Blair Mason and Philippe interested why there is a policy out there, a hangover perhaps from Rabot are committed to doing so, and we’ve put the resources before the minister’s days, that opposition members can’t just there to be able to do that. phone his department and get flat-out information, that we have to The human rights educational fund: there was no reduction in write a letter, not phone but write a letter, to the minister himself that. It remains the same, and that’s important. We have, I think, in order to get the information, and some six weeks later it’ll turn the actual last year of $2.175 million, and this year it’s going to be around and come back out to me. I mean, in this day and age of $2.017 million. That’s a slight reduction, I guess, of a hundred and instant turnaround on this kind of thing this is ridiculous. I’m in- some-odd thousand dollars. But we continue to use that because terested in what the reasoning is. it’s very valuable in what we do in terms of trying to combat ra- The Deputy Chair: Any other members wish to speak? The hon. cism, making people more aware, especially employers, of their Member for Edmonton-Centre. responsibility. We are a province where immigration is becoming an increas- Ms Blakeman: Well, thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps ing factor. We’re becoming more diversified, as I had mentioned. I’ll allow this time to the minister to answer my questions. One of the things you’ll see going forward in our department is Thank you. that we are realigning some of our programs to make sure that we are able to address the needs of new immigrants, natives and Mé- The Deputy Chair: The hon. minister. tis off-reservation, and youth who aren’t at risk. We’re trying to do some mitigation as opposed to dealing with the problems after Mr. Blackett: Well, thank you. First of all, in terms of having the fact, in conjunction with some other departments. access to the collection for RAM, we don’t know that. There is no Also, I should say that in June we’re happy to be able to host business plan that exists right now. We do this in conjunction with CASHRA, which is the Canadian Association of Statutory Human the Minister of Infrastructure. A lot of that work will be done by Rights Agencies. 538 Alberta Hansard March 23, 2011

We’re very proud of the steps we’ve made forward. There’s Ms Blakeman: Two minutes. I have a whole two minutes left. much more to do, but I think we’re moving well in the right direc- I’m just following up on your question about the Turner Valley tion. plant. You were talking about the pathway. I’m sure that someone The last one was with respect to opposition members. I ask that sent you a note because at one point there was a memo out there no members contact my staff directly, other than through my of- that said: pregnant women and young children should not go off fice. It’s conflicting the information that comes out. It may be the pathway. I’m presuming that the pathways have been certified wrong. We had a letter that went out to someone that says that – what was the language they were using? Oh, he’s saying yes. we’re cutting a program. We’re not cutting any program. I’d like Okay. Whatever it is, walkable or accessible to people. to have a consistent message, and I don’t want to get people all excited about something that need not be. Mr. Blackett: It was remediated to a different level. There are My letter to you: I was told that it was on the website. If it different grades. I can’t remember what they are. But the pathway wasn’t there, I apologize for that. We shouldn’t take that long. I’ll is different out there. make sure we respond in our office a lot quicker than that. Ms Blakeman: Okay. I think that one’s going to be a no-win no So please do that through our office, and we’ll make sure that matter how it works out because I think that to make it nontoxic, we get back to you in a timely fashion. we’re going to destroy it. Maybe you could make a really good The Deputy Chair: The hon. member. film about it, and that might be a way of getting around the problem of people being able to not access the site very well. Ms Blakeman: Thank you. If it’s consistent, I have no problem Thank you very much for your patience and everyone else’s with it. patience in the room today. I really appreciate it. Have a good Just to close off, then, if the ministry has no business plan for evening. what they’re doing with RAM, how do you know what you’re 6:00 doing? I mean, surely you have a plan for this. You have dates and timelines and contracts, and you are working with another de- The Deputy Chair: Hon. members, pursuant to Government Mo- partment. There has to be something on paper. I can FOIP you if tion 5, agreed to on February 23, 2011, the Committee of Supply you really want, but that’s going to make some of your staff grim- shall now rise and report. ace. Why don’t you just tell me what planning documents you We’ll give a few seconds to have the staff leave. have that allow you to move forward going: this is what happens [Mr. Mitzel in the chair] next, and this is what happens then, and this is what happens then? Where are the documents about what you’re doing with the Royal The Acting Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Hays. Alberta Museum? Mr. Johnston: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Committee of Sup- Mr. Blackett: Well, we have some plans, as I said. It’s not a busi- ply has had under consideration resolutions for the Department of ness plan per se. They’re with the Ministry of Infrastructure. Our Culture and Community Spirit relating to the 2011-12 government schedule, timelines, and contracts: we don’t have those in place estimates for the general revenue fund and lottery fund for the because everything has kept on changing, what we looked at and fiscal year ending March 31, 2012, reports progress, and requests what I thought was going to happen in 2008. I mean, we had leave to sit again. money that got moved out. Part of our capital plan got moved out because of the economic circumstances. It was pushed out of, I The Acting Speaker: All those members of the Assembly in fa- think, fiscal year ’09-10, and then it got moved out into this year, vour of the report, please say aye. that $50 million. We don’t have any contracts. We have no build- Hon. Members: Aye. ing permits or any of those things that have gone forward yet. Once that decision has been made, we’ll make that clear. You can The Acting Speaker: Opposed, please say no. So ordered. certainly ask through us, and we will provide the information that Hon. members, it is 6 o’clock. This House stands adjourned we have, but there is no business plan. You can do that through until tomorrow afternoon at 1:30. both us and the Ministry of Infrastructure. The policy field committee will convene tonight, in 30 minutes, for consideration of the main estimates for Transportation. This The Deputy Chair: Hon. member, there are two more minutes meeting will be video streamed. left. [The Assembly adjourned at 6:02 p.m. to Thursday at 1:30 p.m.]

Table of Contents Prayers ...... 505 Introduction of Guests ...... 505 Members’ Statements Barlow Trail Underpass ...... 505 Health Services Financial Reporting ...... 505 Healthy Food Choices ...... 506 Lorraine Farmer Mary Phillipo ...... 506 Health Care System Strengths ...... 506 Integrated Ambulance Services in Airdrie ...... 506 Introduction of Bills Bill Pr. 2 Galt Scholarship Fund Transfer Act ...... 507 Bill Pr. 3 Auburn Bay Residents Association Tax Exemption Act ...... 515 Bill Pr. 4 Cranston Residents Association Tax Exemption Act ...... 516 Bill Pr. 5 New Brighton Residents Association Tax Exemption Act ...... 516 Bill Pr. 6 Tuscany Residents Association Tax Exemption Act ...... 516 Bill Pr. 7 Hull Child and Family Services Amendment Act, 2011 ...... 516 Oral Question Period Patient Advocacy by Health Professionals ...... 507, 511 Wait Times for Cancer Care ...... 508 Critical Electricity Transmission Infrastructure ...... 508 Health Care System ...... 509 Health Quality Council Review ...... 509 Occupational Health and Safety ...... 510 Calgary Board of Education ...... 510 Special-needs Education Funding ...... 511 Health Services Financial Reporting ...... 511 Aids to Daily Living Program ...... 512 Minister of Health and Wellness ...... 512 Penhorwood Apartment Evacuations ...... 512 Protection against Discrimination ...... 513 Provincial Environmental Monitoring Panel ...... 513 Grants and Bursaries for Postsecondary Education ...... 514 Residential Building Code ...... 514 Women in Postsecondary Education ...... 515 Municipal Funding ...... 515 Tabling Returns and Reports ...... 516 Committee of Supply ...... 518 Main Estimates 2011-12 ...... 518 Culture and Community Spirit ...... 518

Table of Contents Prayers ...... 505 Introduction of Guests ...... 505 Members’ Statements Barlow Trail Underpass ...... 505 Health Services Financial Reporting ...... 505 Healthy Food Choices ...... 506 Lorraine Farmer, Mary Phillipo ...... 506 Health Care System Strengths ...... 506 Integrated Ambulance Services in Airdrie ...... 506 Introduction of Bills Bill Pr. 2 Galt Scholarship Fund Transfer Act ...... 507 Bill Pr. 3 Auburn Bay Residents Association Tax Exemption Act ...... 515 Bill Pr. 4 Cranston Residents Association Tax Exemption Act ...... 516 Bill Pr. 5 New Brighton Residents Association Tax Exemption Act ...... 516 Bill Pr. 6 Tuscany Residents Association Tax Exemption Act ...... 516 Bill Pr. 7 Hull Child and Family Services Amendment Act, 2011 ...... 516 Oral Question Period Patient Advocacy by Health Professionals ...... 507, 511 Wait Times for Cancer Care ...... 508 Critical Electricity Transmission Infrastructure ...... 508 Health Care System ...... 509 Health Quality Council Review ...... 509 Occupational Health and Safety ...... 510 Calgary Board of Education ...... 510 Special-needs Education Funding ...... 511 Health Services Financial Reporting ...... 511 Aids to Daily Living Program ...... 512 Minister of Health and Wellness ...... 512 Penhorwood Apartment Evacuations ...... 512 Protection against Discrimination ...... 513 Provincial Environmental Monitoring Panel ...... 513 Grants and Bursaries for Postsecondary Education ...... 514 Residential Building Code ...... 514 Women in Postsecondary Education ...... 515 Municipal Funding ...... 515 Tabling Returns and Reports ...... 516 Committee of Supply Main Estimates 2011-12 Culture and Community Spirit ...... 518