TRANSCRIPT: ALL THINGS CONSIDERED October 2, 2002 JACKI LYDEN, host: From NPR News, this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. Iʼm Jacki Lyden. ROBERT SIEGEL, host: And Iʼm Robert Siegel. Before television and photography, the great battles of history were documented with paint on can- vas. artist Sandow Birk has revived that tradition, depicting one of the most profound conflicts in history: the rivalry between San Francisco and Los Angeles. NPRʼs Ina Jaffe reports that in Birkʼs version, the rivalry is imagined as a shooting war.

INA JAFFE reporting: History painting was long regarded as “the depiction of the great deeds of great men worthy of mem- ory,” to quote one Renaissance critic. Sandow Birkʼs history paintings, on the other hand, show an unlikely bunch of accidental warriors willing to do or die in the battle between Fog Town and Smog Town struggling for total California domination, or at least bragging rights.

Mr. SANDOW BIRK (Artist): History paintings were never really accurate in any way, that they were always tainted with a sort of a propagandistic desired to show one side or another or to put certain people in more heroic light. And so if there is a role for history painting today, itʼs spoofing the giant romantic battle paintings of the past.

JAFFE: Thereʼs a jumble of past and present in Birkʼs California war paintings. Generals are seen sometimes on horseback and sometimes on Harleys, naval battles are waged by ships from every century and soldiers attack waving swords, rifles and banners saying, `Ask me about free checking.ʼ No California cliche goes unexploited. The war paintings, all 110 of them, were inspired by a trip to San Francisco a few years back when Birk was showing some of his earlier work at a gallery there.

Mr. BIRK: Every time I would go into a bar in San Francisco and people would say, `Oh, where you from?ʼ And I would say, `Oh, Iʼm from LA,ʼ and they would say, `Oh, how could live there? Itʼs such a horrible place. Itʼs so smoggy. Everyoneʼs phony. Itʼs all about the movies.ʼ And theyʼd just go on and on about what a horrible city it was. And, you know, it started to be sort of comical.

JAFFE: And then it started to be sort of irritating. Sandow Birk, a native Southern Californian, began to fight back.

Mr. BIRK: People would say, `Oh, you know, where you from?ʼ and Iʼd say, `Oh, Iʼm from the city.ʼ And theyʼd say, `Oh, San Francisco?ʼ Iʼd say, `No, Iʼm from the big city, the real city, the California city, second-biggest in the country.ʼ And then that would, you know, set things off in a bad mood right there.

JAFFE: A couple of years ago, Birkʼs California war paintings, collected under the title “In Smog and Thunder,” were shown at the Laguna Art Museum in Orange County accompanied by phony histori- cal text Birk wrote for the exhibition and catalogue. The work is getting renewed attention now for two reasons. First, Birk and a couple of colleagues have recently used the paintings and text to cre- ate a mock PBS-style video documentary.

(Soundbite of documentary; music) JAFFE: All the elements are there: the music, the expert historian, the starchy narrator. (Soundbite of documentary) Unidentified Narrator: By the beginning of May, the South made its move. Major General Juan Gomez de los Angeles--Angeles (pronounced ann-heh-lez)? Angeles (pronounced ann-he-lez), Angeles (pronounced ann-he-lez)--Ann... (Soundbite of throat clearing; beeping noise) Unidentified Narrator: Major General Juan Gomez de los Angeles, who had only six months before named supreme commander... JAFFE: Also, the mockumentary contains an episode about one of the hottest issues in the upcom- ing November election. Thatʼs whether the vast suburban San Fernando Valley will be allowed to secede from the rest of Los Angeles. Though in Sandow Birkʼs version of history, it already has. And since the artist is against secession, he takes a bit of revenge. As the videoʼs historian explains, the newly independent valley is no match for the attacking army of San Francisco.

(Soundbite of documentary) Historian: Its troops were very green. They retreated at the get-go without much more than a few shots fired in self-defense. So the Valleyʼs generals meet at the Galleria mall. Some argue that they should ask for assistance from LA to hold off the attack, but a majority canʼt bear the idea of begging for help from the city theyʼd worked so hard to leave. (Soundbite of sirens) Narrator: From his eagle nest headquarters atop the Hollywood Hills, General Gomez watched the valley burn. `Let it go,ʼ he reportedly told his aides, `let the bastards burn.ʼ (Soundbite of burning noise) JAFFE: Birk has now put the great California wars behind him, though his latest work continues to meld his interests in art history and social criticism. His paintings, currently showing in Manhattan at the Debsen Company Gallery(ph), recall the lush 19th-century landscapes of the Hudson River School in depicting every one of the maximum-security prisons in the state of New York. Ina Jaffe, NPR News, in the big city, the real city, Los Angeles.

SIEGEL: Now for more about Sandow Birkʼs paintings, you can check our Web site at npr.org.

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LIFE & TIMES TRANSCRIPT 12/4/02 LC021204

HOSTED BY VAL ZAVALA AND JESS MARLOW

JESS>> RESIDENTS OF THE SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA ARE FAMOUS FOR LOOKING DOWN THEIR COLLECTIVE NOSES AT SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, BUT IMAGINE A TIME WHEN CALIFORNIA’S REGIONAL DIFFERENCES BECOME SERIOUS ENOUGH TO CAUSE A CIVIL WAR. THAT’S THE PREMISE OF A NEW FILM THAT REDEFINES THE WAR BETWEEN THE NORTH AND THE SOUTH. PAUL ZALOOM>> “SOON CALIFORNIA WAS AT WAR WITH HERSELF. BROTHER AGAINST BROTHER, NEIGHBOR AGAINST NEIGHBOR, ANGELENO AGAINST SAN FRANCISCAN. A BITTER, SAD AND TRAGIC AFFAIR, THE GREAT WAR OF THE WAS THE RESULT OF MANY EVENTS, ACTIONS AND PERSONALITIES, ALL ROLLED INTO THE GIANT BURRITO OF HISTORY.” JESS>> THE FILM IS CALLED “IN SMOG AND THUNDER” AND IT’S BASED ON THE WORKS OF AN ARTIST WHO SPENT SOME TIME DREAMING UP A GREAT WAR OF THE CALIFORNIAS. VAL>> AND JOINING US NOW IS SANDOW BIRK WHO WROTE THE FILM WHICH USES SO MANY OF HIS PAINTINGS. ALSO WITH US IS SEAN MEREDITH, WHO PRODUCED AND DIRECTED “IN SMOG AND THUNDER”. I LOVE THAT, THE GREAT BURRITO (LAUGHTER). SANDOW BIRK>> THANK YOU. JESS>> IS IT TOUGH TO PAINT WITH TONGUE-IN-CHEEK? SANDOW BIRK>> YES. IT CAN BE TOUGH, YEAH. VAL>> NOW THIS FILM OBVIOUSLY WAS BUILT UPON THE SUCCESS OF THE PAINTINGS WHICH WERE AN EXHIBIT UNTO THEMSELVES, CORRECT? SEAN MEREDITH>> WELL, IT STARTED AT SEVERAL EXHIBITS. FIRST AT THE KOPLIN GALLERY IN LOS ANGELES WHERE I SHOW REGULARLY, AND IT WAS ALSO AT THE LAGUNA ART MUSEUM TWO YEARS AGO. JESS>> WHAT TECHNIQUE DID YOU EMPLOY TO MAKE A FILM OF THIS? IS THIS A DOCUMENTARY? SEAN MEREDITH>> YEAH, IT’S A DOCUMENTARY OF THE WAR IN CALIFORNIA, SO IT SPOOFS THE KEN BURNS GENRE. SO WHERE SANDOW’S PAINTINGS SORT OF LIKE SPOOF THE HISTORICAL WAR PAINTINGS FROM THE 1800’S AND SO FORTH. YEAH, THIS FILM WENT ON AND SPOOFED THE MEDIA THAT’S GOING ON NOW. JESS>> YOU’RE A TEAM OF PRANKSTERS THEN, HUH? (LAUGHTER) SANDOW BIRK>> YEAH, WE WORKED WITH PAUL ZALOOM WHO HELPED WRITE THE SCRIPT ALSO. SEAN MEREDITH>> HE’S ALSO THE NARRATOR. VAL>> I THINK WE’RE GOING TO SEE SOME IMAGES THAT WERE USED AND WE’RE ALSO GOING TO TAKE A COUPLE OF CLIPS. WHAT IS THIS? A “MOCKUMENTARY”, IS THAT CORRECT? SANDOW BIRK>> YEAH, EXACTLY. VAL>> SO WHAT HAPPENS IN THIS WAR? SEAN MEREDITH>> WELL, IT’S SET ON THE PREMISE THAT, DUE TO THE ANTAGONISM BETWEEN THESE TWO CITIES, LOS ANGELES INVADES SAN FRANCISCO, SAN FRANCISCO RISES UP AND COUNTER-ATTACKS AND -- VAL>> -- WE’RE THE AGGRESSOR? SANDOW BIRK>> OH, YEAH. SEAN MEREDITH>> AT THE BEGINNING, YEAH, BECAUSE SAN FRANCISCO IS SO HOSTILE, YOU KNOW, AGAINST THE SOUTH, BUT THE WHOLE THING IS NOT JUST SIMPLY MEANT TO BE FUNNY -- JESS>> -- THIS IS A SPONSORED WAR. WE’VE GOT ALL THESE BUD LIGHT AND GOODYEAR -- VAL>> -- IS THAT RIGHT? IT’S A SPONSORED WAR? THERE’S ENDORSEMENTS FOR EACH SIDE, IS THAT RIGHT? SEAN MEREDITH>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. BUT IT TALKS ABOUT REAL SERIOUS ISSUES TOO LIKE THE VALLEY TRYING TO BREAK AWAY AND SECEDING. IT TALKS ABOUT IMMIGRATION, CIVIL RIGHTS -- JESS>> -- THE WATER WAR? SEAN MEREDITH>> ALL KINDS OF THINGS. VAL>> DID YOU ACTUALLY DRAW A LOT ON HISTORY OR DID YOU JUST MAKE ALL THIS UP USING CONTEMPORARY POP CULTURE? SEAN MEREDITH>> WE DREW A LOT ON CURRENT EVENTS, YEAH. CONTEMPORARY SOCIAL ISSUES AND THINGS. VAL>> SO SAN FRANCISCO IN THE NORTH, L.A. IN THE SOUTH. WHERE DID BAKERSFIELD GO? NORTH OR SOUTH? (LAUGHTER) SANDOW BIRK>> THEY’RE ACTUALLY IN THERE. LAS VEGAS PLAYS A ROLE, SAN DIEGO AND, IN THE GRAND FINALE, TIJUANA IS INVOLVED ALSO. JESS>> I SUPPOSE THE SAN FRANCISCO CULTURE IS THE MAJOR WEAPON USED. SEAN MEREDITH>> YEAH, AND THEN L.A. CULTURE. I MEAN, IT’S SORT OF THE BATTLE BETWEEN WHO HAS CULTURE AND WHO DOESN’T AND SORT OF SAN FRANCISCO THINKING WE DON’T HAVE ANY, SO IT’S QUITE A -- VAL>> -- WHAT ORIGINALLY GAVE YOU THE IDEA OF CREATING PAINTINGS BASED ON A FICTIONAL WAR? SANDOW BIRK>> WELL, A LOT HAD TO DO WITH HISTORY PAINTING ITSELF, AN IDEA OF PAINTINGS THAT HISTORICALLY PAINTED WARS AND THINGS, AND TAKING THAT IDEA OF PAINTING AND SORT OF MAKING A JOKE ABOUT THE ROLE OF PAINTING IN OUR WORLD TODAY. JESS>> WHEN YOU SEE AN ARMED CAVALRY CHARGING IN THERE WEARING DODGER JACKETS.... VAL>> WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT A CLIP AND THIS IS A CLIP THAT TALKS ABOUT A PARTICULAR BATTLE. IT WAS THE ATTACK ON THE GETTY CENTER. LET’S TAKE A LOOK. JESS>> THAT’S AN ARMED FORTRESS UP THERE. SEAN MEREDITH>> EXACTLY, EXACTLY. VAL>> GOOD VENUE. LET’S TAKE A LOOK. PAUL ZALOOM>> “FINALLY, ANGELENO REINFORCEMENTS ARRIVE EAGER TO MOUNT THE STEEP HILL TO SAVE THE GETTY. BUT LIEUTENANT-MAJOR D.J. DOWN HELD THEM BACK SEEING NO POINT IN SACRIFICING MORE TROOPS TO SAVE WHAT HE DESCRIBED AS ‘AT BEST, A MEDIOCRE COLLECTION OF ‘B’ GRADE PAINTINGS AND ROCOC0 [CHACHKAS]’.” D.J. DOWN WAS LATER SLAIN IN THE BATTLE OF UNIVERSAL STUDIOS. IN THE MEANTIME, ANGELENO CIVILIANS KEPT LIVING THEIR LIVES AS IF NOTHING WAS HAPPENING AROUND THEM.” >> “THIS IS RUDY IN SKY-WATCH 1. THINGS ARE NOT LOOKING TOO GOOD FOR THE MORNING COMMUTE, FOLKS. THERE’S AN ARMORED PERSONNEL CARRIER ON FIRE BLOCKING THE TRANSITION FROM THE NORTHBOUND 5 TO THE 710. WE GOT A SIGALERT ON THE 210 NORTH WITH A SLOW-MOVING SUPPLY CONVOY IN THE CARPOOL LANE. NOW IF YOU’RE PLANNING ON GETTING OUT TO PALM SPRINGS THIS WEEKEND, YOU’D BETTER TAKE THE 60 CAUSE THE 10’S GOT A SEVENTY-FOOT DEEP SMOLDERING CRATER BY THE 605 WITH CALTRANS ON THE WAY. KFWB PHONE FORCER BOB CALLED IN ABOUT A BRUSH FIRE ON THE 405 SOUTH BY LA TIERRA DUE TO SOME FLAME-THROWER ACTIVITY ON THE SHOULDER. OKAY, WE’RE TAKING SOME FLAK. MORE TRAFFIC COMING UP ON THE 1’S.” VAL>> (LAUGHTER) THAT IS, UNFORTUNATELY, TOO TRUE. EVERYTHING IS GOING ON, BUT GIVE ME MY TRAFFIC REPORT. OH, THAT’S GREAT. JESS>> THIS IS, WHAT, A 45-MINUTE? SEAN MEREDITH>> YEAH, 45 MINUTES. JESS>> AND WHERE WILL IT BE SEEN? SEAN MEREDITH>> IT HAD ITS FIRST SHOWING LAST MONTH AT A FESTIVAL IN PALM SPRINGS CALLED “THE FESTIVAL OF FESTIVALS” (LAUGHTER). IT’S A BUNCH OF FESTIVALS ROLLED INTO ONE. IT WILL BE SHOWING AT MORE FESTIVALS NEXT YEAR. STARTING IN JANUARY, IT WILL START ROLLING AND, HOPEFULLY, A FEW OF THEM WILL BE IN CALIFORNIA ONCE IT ALL STARTS SHOWING, BUT IN WESTERN STATES MOSTLY. VAL>> I DON’T THINK IT WILL BE SHOWING AT THE GETTY (LAUGHTER). SEAN MEREDITH>> IT’S ALSO OUT ON DVD NOW TOO THAT THE PUBLISHING COMPANY THAT HELPED MAKE THE FILM RELEASED. VAL>> WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT ANOTHER CLIP BECAUSE WE HAVE TO GET THIS IN. THIS IS ABOUT THE ALLIES THAT FORM ON EACH SIDE. LET’S TAKE A LOOK. PAUL ZALOOM>> “WHILE SAN FRANCISCO HAD SUCCESSFULLY ENLISTED THEIR NORTHERN NEIGHBORS, SEATTLE AND PORTLAND, IN THE WAR, THE SOUTH HAD HAD LESS SUCCESS IN GATHERING ALLIES. ORANGE COUNTY DECIDED TO REMAIN NEUTRAL WITH SAN DIEGO. OBSESSED WITH ITS CONSTANT AND MANIACAL BORDER-FENCED BUILDING TO THE SOUTH, SAN DIEGO FAILED TO PERCEIVE THE THREAT LOOMING BEHIND THE CLOUDS OF WAR. THE HOPES OF LOS ANGELES WERE NOW PINNED ON THE DECISION OF MEXICO. JUST AS BOTH GOMEZ’S AND PARKS’ FLANKS WERE CRUMBLING, THE ARRIVAL OF MEXICAN BRIGADIER GENERAL QUINCY SALERNO AND HIS 15,000 TIJUANA REINFORCEMENTS SAVED THE DAY FOR EAST L.A. THEY HAD HEARD THE CALL FOR AID FROM THEIR BROTHERS AND SENT EVERYTHING THEY COULD MUSTER. “I WOULD HAVE BEEN HERE SOONER, BUT THE DAMNED LINE AT THE BORDER WAS A NIGHTMARE. THE INS DOESN’T SYMPATHIZE WITH THE SOUTH’S CAUSE, SO WE HAD TO MOVE OUR TROOPS WEST OF TOWN AND CUT THROUGH THE FENCES.” -- GENERAL QUINCY SALERNO, COMMANDER OF THE ARMY OF TIJUANA. VAL>> (LAUGHTER) TOO MUCH TRUTH IN THAT. NOW HAS THIS BEEN SHOWN UP IN SAN FRANCISCO? SANDOW BIRK>> IT WILL BE SOON, BUT RIGHT NOW IT HASN’T YET. JESS>> IT WILL PROBABLY BE WELL-RECEIVED UP THERE. SANDOW BIRK>> I HOPE SO. VAL>> DO I DARE -- SHOULD WE ASK WHO WON OR SHOULD WE NOT ASK? SANDOW BIRK>> YOU SHOULDN’T ASK US (LAUGHTER). JESS>> NO, DON’T TELL US HOW THE STORY ENDS. SANDOW BIRK>> IT ALSO HAS A CELEBRITY CAMEO AND IT’S QUITE GOOD. JESS>> WE’LL LOOK FOR THAT (LAUGHTER). SANDOW BIRK>> KCET-RELATED. VAL>> REALLY? OH, NOW WE’VE GOT TO GO SEE IT (LAUGHTER). JESS>> OUR THANKS TO SANDOW BIRK AND SEAN MEREDITH. IF YOU’D LIKE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THAT FILM, YOU CAN CHECK THEIR WEBSITE AT INSMOGANDTHUNDER.COM. VAL>> OH, I LOVE IT. THE BATTLE IS NEVER-ENDING BETWEEN SAN FRANCISCO AND LOS ANGELES. AND THAT’S TONIGHT’S PROGRAM. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANK YOU AND GOODNIGHT. ©2002, KCET-TV. LOS ANGELES