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Interviewer: Jean Chaudhuri

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Interviewer: Jean Chaudhuri SOUTHEASTERN INDIAN ORAL HISTORY PROJECT UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA In cooperation with The Seminole Tribe of Florida INTERVIEWEE: D.T., A Miccosukee Housewife INTERVIEWER: JEAN CHAUDHURI DATE: MAY, 1971 INDEX Alcoholism, 11 Alligator wrestling, 8 Brighton Reservation, 1, 5 Clans, 1 Communication, 5-6 Dances, 13 Dress, 13 Education and drop-out rate, 11-12 Everglades, 7 Food, 7-8 Green Corn Dance, 5 Hollywood Reservation, 1 Honesty, 9-10 Hospitality, 7, 10 Housing, 12-13 Hunting and fishing, 4-5 Indian stickball game, 6-7 Jackson, Andrew, 2-3 Land ownership, 3-5 Language Creek [Muskogee], 1 Miccosukee, 12 Seminole, 1 teaching of, 12 Medicine men, 10 Osceola, 4, 7, 9 Punishment, 9 Religion, 10-11 Seminole meaning, 2 Seminole War, 3 Tamiami Trail, 1, 13 I: Are there a lot of Otters [Otter Clan] living here? S: No. I: Have you always lived here at Hollywood ·reserve? S: No, I come from the Tamiami Trail. I: Can you marry into your own clan? S: No. I: Why? S: Because we're brothers and sisters, all of the people that belong to that clan. They can marry outside the clan. I: You're a Miccosukee yourself? S: Uh huh. I: All right, let's say you belong to the Otter Clan with the Miccosukee tribe--could you marry an Otter tribe of the Seminole tribe? S: I don't know what the difference is between Seminole and Miccosukee. To me they're all the same. I: How about the languages? Is it a little bit different? S: No, the same. I: The same, the languages? Miccosukee and Seminole language, or Creek--how do you distinguish? S: Well, Seminole, Miccosukee, and Creek is different. I: Uh huh. So, Seminole and Miccosukee are the same, but the Creek is different? S: Yes. I: Like Brighton Creeks are different from the Seminole-Miccosukee? 2 S: Yes. I: Most history books tells us that Seminole means "runaway or untamed people." Is this what you hear among your people? S: Well, the word means "wild". I: Wild? S: Uh huh, "something wild." I: Is it a Miccosukee word or a Creek word? I S: Miccosukee. It's really pronounced seminoli. I: Have you ever heard any stories where the Seminole came from? S: No, I never heard, but in school they tell us that they were around Georgia, Alabama, and Florida. I: Have you ever heard of the character_of Andrew Jackson? S: Uh huh. I: What sort of person was he? S: Well, he was an enemy. I: An enemy of the Creek? S: Seminole. I: To the Seminoles, uh huh. You said he was an enemy. Was he a good enemy or a bad enemy? S: An enemy. I: An enemy. S: A real bad ••.• I: O.K. What sort of tactics did he use in order to move the Indians from.out of this area? S: Well, I think he tricked them, from what I've heard, and lied to them, and stuff like that. 3 I: They also tell me around 1818 and '19, Andrew Jackson was trying to get more land for the United States, and the only way he could get this land was from Spain. Spain in 1819 owned Florida, they tell me, and this is the way the United States got Florida .•. because Spain gave it to them. Do you believe that the land belonged to Spain--this land, Florida? S: Well, I believe that the Indians were here ·first. I: You said a phrase a while ago. What did you mean by that? S: First come, first serve, and the land belongs to the Seminoles. I: At one time the government, whenever they wanted to force the Seminoles to make them move to Oklahoma they had promised them that they would get good farm.land, they would get good education, they would get some money to get started in business, and then the white man will never bother them again. How come the Seminoles didn't take this opportunity to go to Oklahoma? S: They lied to them before, so must be they thought they were lying to them again. That's why they fought back so much to stay here. I: Do you think Osceola was a great war hero?. S: Yes, I think that he was. I: Can you tell me a little bit about him? S: Well, I've heard that he was so ... like, he wasn't afraid. He was so brave, he outsmarted the white man all the time, and finally they captured him. I: How was he captured? S: Well, I think they lied to him, and the way that our grandmothers tell it is that they lied to him, and that's the only way they could get him. I: Over a seven year period, do you know how much the United States pa~d for the Seminole War? S: Well, in history they tell us 20 million dollars and 15,000 men. I: And that's a lot of lives and a lot of money. Do you think if 4 Osceola was alive today, he would be happy that he made the U.S. government pay that much money and to loose that many men? S: I think so. I: Osceola was a young man, probably-in his twenties or so, and he was not a chief, either by election or by inheritance. Why? Why did they choose him as a leader, since he wasn't elected or he wasn't a chief by inheritance? What was so unique about him that they wanted him as a chief? S: Well, they didn't elect him as a chief, as you say, but I think he loved his people, and that showed. They could tell, and he loved his people that much to go that far. I: And so you think he was sort of a protector for his people? Do you think he protected them pretty well? S: Uh huh. I think so. I: In what ways? S: Well, he wanted to keep this land, not for himself, but for the whole tribe. I: And a long time ago, do you think most Indians saw the land as private property, or did it belong to the tribe? S: I think to the tribe. Nobody ever wanted this and that for themselves. I think they ____ for the whole tribe. They stuck together, and what belonged to one person belonged to the whole tribe. I think that's the way they were. I: Now, for the Indian to go fishing in those days, before the white man, have you heard stories that they have to have fishing license or hunting license? S: I don't think so. I: How about today? S: Today they still don't. I: They still don't? 5 S: On the government land reserve, they don't need license. I: On all government lands, or just the reservation? S: On all of the government property, because I know wherever you go you don't need a license if you're on Indian land. I: Oh, just on Indian land? S: On Indian land. I: I started to say, what if you go to state property? S: I don't know, really. I: But just Indian land, you know that? S: I know for sure that they don't need a license. I: A long time ago if they were going to have a Green Corn Dance or maybe a big ceremony of some sort, how did they make communication work? How did they, for example, if you lived here in Hollywood, how would you get over to Brighton, your message? You all didn't have any phones or telegraphs or anything. How would a person get a message over? S: You mean when we still lived in the swamp? I: Uh huh. S: Well, they would send ... there was somebody on foot, send somebody. I: S: Oh, I don't know if they went that far, but I know they used a lot of canoes for transportation. I: So today I understand that you all use radio? S: Yes. I: This is •.•. S: Telephone. 6 I: Right. But some of the reservations don't have that many phones, so radio is just as good. S: Uh huh. I: Can you tell me a little bit of the Indian stickball game? Have you ever attended any of the Indian stickball games? S: Yes, I've participated in a few, and I know it's rough. I: How long does it last? S: I'm not sure, but I think they ... the first team they gets so many points, I think wins. I: Oh, so it doesn't make any difference if you play a half an hour or an hour? S: I don't think so, because when we played,' I don't know if.it's like the olden games, but they put a notch on the tree every time you score, and then you get maybe say like ten notches on your side and then you've won. I: Is that what they usually start out with--ten notches? S: I think so. I: What sort of tribal dresses do you wear when you're playing? S: Long skirts. I: Are there any markings that you put on your costume to show that you're a different team? S: No. I: How do you know who's on your team? S: Well, usually the men play the women. I: Oh, so you can really tell who's who.
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