Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 8 NOVEMBER 1988

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

2128 8 November 1988 Petitions

TUESDAY, 8 NOVEMBER 1988

The House met at 10 a.m.

ABSENCE OF MR SPEAKER The Clerk informed the House of the unavoidable absence of Mr Speaker. The Chairman of Committees (Mr E. C. Row, Hinchinbrook) read prayers and took the chair as Acting Speaker.

ASSENT TO BILLS Assent to the following Bills reported by Mr Acting Speaker— Public Tmstee Act Amendment BiU; Logan Motorway Agreement Act Amendment Bill; Govemors' Pensions Act Amendment Bill; Professional Engineers Bill.

PETITIONS The Clerk announced the receipt of the following petitions—

Compulsory Wearing of Safety Helmets by Cyclists From Mr Littleproud (23 signatories) praying that the Parliament of Queensland wiU legislate for the compulsory wearing of safety helmets by cyclists. A similar petition was received from Mr Campbell (50 signatories).

Licensed Sporting Clubs From Mrs Harvey (90 signatories) praying that the Parliament of Queensland will review the restrictions on trading hours, fiind-raising and other activities in licensed sporting clubs.

Development of Moreton Bay From Mr Burns (118 signatories) praying that the Parliament of Queensland will make available for public scmtiny and debate aU reports and recommendations affecting the development of Moreton Bay.

Provision of Bus Services to Bayside Area by Brisbane City Council From Mr Burns (102 signatories) praying that the Parliament of Queensland will take action to license the Brisbane City Council to provide bus services in the bayside area.

Legislation to Protect Personal Basic Rights from Criminal Activity From Mrs Gamin (563 signatories) praying that the Parliament of Queensland will provide further legislative action to protect personal basic rights from aU types of criminal activity. Petitions received. Papers 8 November 1988 2129

VOTE ON ACCOUNT, 1989-90 Mr ACTING SPEAKER read a message from His Excellency the Governor recommending that the following provisions be made on account of the services for the year ending 30 June 1990— From the Consolidated Revenue Fund, the sum of $1,150,000,000; From the Tmst and Special Funds, the sum of $2,140,000,000; From the Loan Fund, the sum of $80,000,000. Message referred to Committee of Supply.

PAPERS The following papers were laid on the table, and ordered to be printed— Reports— Board of Professional Engineers of Queensland for the year ended 30 June 1988 Report and Appendix of the Queensland Electricity Commission for the year ended 30 June 1988. The following papers were laid on the table— Proclamations under— Forestry Act 1959-1987 National Parks and WildUfe Act 1975-1984 Orders in Council under— Financial Administration and Audit Act 1987-1988 Land Act 1962-1988 District Courts Act 1967-1988 Harbours Act 1955-1987 Canals Act 1958-1987 Gladstone Area Water Board Act 1984-1988 and the Statutory Bodies Financial Arrangements Act 1982-1988 Irrigation Act 1922-1986 and the Water Act 1926-1987 River Improvement Tmst Act 1940-1985 and the Statutory Bodies Financial Arrangements Act 1982-1988 Water Act 1926-1987 and the Statutory Bodies Financial Arrangements Act 1982-1988 Water Act 1926-1987 Fauna Conservation Act 1974-1985 Forestry Act 1959-1987 Land Act 1962-1988 National Parks and Wildlife Act 1975-1984 Regulations under— Main Roads Act 1920-1985 Motor Vehicle Driving Instmction School Act 1969-1985 Tow-tmck Act 1973-1985 National Parks and Wildlife Act 1975-1984 Reports— National Companies and Securities Commission for the year ended 30 June 1988 2130 8 November 1988 Ministerial Statement

Legal Aid Commission of Queensland for the year ended 30 June 1988 Miners Pensions Tribunal for the year ended 30 June 1988.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Queensland Economy Hon. B. D. AUSTIN (Nicklin—Minister for Finance and Minister Assisting the Premier and Treasurer) (10.10 a.m.), by leave: I would like to inform Parliament of the latest growth and development projections for the Queensland economy. I do this in the light of concem at the possibility of a post-Expo downtum and some recent indications of interest in economic issues from the Opposition. An independent study just released by the Melboume-based national institute of Economic and Industry Research indicates that the Queensland economy performed strongly during 1987-88 and that this performance is expected to continue into 1988-89. The national institute's estimates show that in 1987-88 the Queensland economy grew in real terms by over 3.9 per cent, which is above the national average, and it is forecast to grow by 4.5 per cent in 1988-89—again well above the expected national average growth. Moreover, the study suggests that Queensland's above-average economic performance is set to continue into the 1990s. The national institute's medium-term forecasts for the five-year period to 1992-93 show that Queensland's gross State product will grow at an average annual rate of about 4 per cent in real terms, compared with an increase in gross domestic product for Australia of about 3.5 per cent. Importantly, the study also indicates that Queensland's economic growth will be broadly based and well balanced, both on a regional basis and across all sectors of the economy, including light and heavy manufacturing and services as well as agriculture and mining. Further, the national institute's break-down of the main components of growth indicates that the private sector will make a greater contribution to growth in Queensland than in the rest of Australia, affirming Queensland's record of greater public sector restraint and the success of its policies in promoting genuine private sector led economic expansion. I seek leave of the House to table statements which show— • a summary of the national institute's real growth estimates for all States and Australia; and • estimates of the main macro-aggregates for Queensland and Australia for the period 1987-88 to 1992-93. Leave granted. Whereupon the honourable member laid the documents on the table. An Opposition member interjected. Mr AUSTIN: Don't you like it? Cop it sweet! The study's findings of a strong growth trend in the Queensland economy confirm similar estimates produced from the State economic model being developed by the Treasury Department. These estimates of above-average growth for Queensland in 1987- 88 and 1988-89 give the He to the prophets of doom who are predicting an easing of economic activity following Expo. Indeed, the latest major economic indicators provide further confirmation that the Queensland economy is generally performing better than that of the rest of Australia. In this regard, I seek leave to table a further statement which shows that, compared with our estimated population share of 16.6 per cent, Queensland is making an above- average contribution to Australia's economic performance for a majority of key indicators such as employment growth, exports and building activity. Ministerial Statement 8 November 1988 2131

Leave granted. Whereupon the honourable member laid the document on the table. Mr AUSTIN: Over the past decade the Queensland economy has generally out­ performed that of the rest of Australia. The independent analysis of the national institute reinforces our own views that this pattem will continue into the 1990s.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Seminar for Training of Justices of the Peace Hon. P. J. CLAUSON (Redlands—Minister for Justice and Attomey-General) (10.13 a.m.), by leave: It has recentiy come to my attention that an organisation known as Dynamic Speakers and Management Consultants is holding a seminar in Brisbane on Saturday, 19 November 1988, at the Sheraton Hotel. It is proposed that at this seminar Dr Keith Tronc wUl address the participants. The purpose of the seminar is to provide training for people who have been appointed as justices of the peace. Notwithstanding the eminence of Dr Tronc and work that he has done in relation to providing training material and assisting in the training of justices of the peace, I would point out that this seminar is in fact not conducted under the official auspices of the Department of Justice. It is in fact a profit-making enterprise.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Mr Justice Vasta; Judge Pratt Hon. P. J. CLAUSON (Redlands—Minister for Justice and Attomey-General) (10.14 a.m.), by leave: In view of the controversy that has arisen as a result of the mention of a member of the Supreme Court of Queensland before the commission of inquiry currently being conducted by Mr G. E. Fitzgerald, QC, and in view of the announcement by the Honourable the Premier on Thursday, 24 October 1988, that— "The Govemment will bring before Parliament an appropriate resolution for the appointment of three retired judges to conduct an inquiry into issues relating to the conduct of Mr Justice Vasta, and if appropriate. District Court Judges.", I consider that it is necessary that this House be informed of the course of action which the Govemment proposes to adopt. As I have previously informed this House, the most practical mechanism to deal with allegations conceming a Supreme Court judge and his potential removal is to move for an address of this House to be made to the Crown. Before this House decides to make such an address, it is necessary that the facts be appropriately determined and that this House be informed as to whether those facts provide an appropriate basis for the making of an address seeking to remove a Supreme Court judge. Any decision to seek to remove a judge of the superior courts of Queensland is extremely serious. It should not be lightly undertaken and it should not be a matter of party political dispute. It should be a decision for this Parliament, as an institution, to apply the appropriate standards that will ensure the maintenance of the independence and integrity of the judiciary. In order, therefore, that this Parliament might have before it appropriate factual information and advice upon which it can determine whether or not an address should be made, the Govemment has decided to introduce legislation to establish a parliamentary commission of inquiry. This commission will be composed of three judges or retired judges of a State Supreme Court, the Federal Court of Australia or the High Court. The task of this parliamentary commission wiU be to ascertain the facts conceming allegations which have been raised and to advise this House as to whether those facts, as ascertained, are such as would justify this House in making an address in relation to that judge. 2132 8 November 1988 Ministerial Statement

As the Premier has previously announced, the position of Mr Justice Angelo Vasta of the Supreme Court of Queensland will be placed before this commission. Although, as I have previously advised this House, District Court judges can be removed by the Govemor in Council after what is the equivalent of a show-cause procedure, the removal of a District Court judge also involves major issues of principle. The Govemment has now had the benefit of specific advice from its representative before the Fitzgerald inquiry, Mr I. Callinan, QC, in relation to matters concerning His Honour Judge Pratt of the District Court. As a result of that advice, the Govemment has decided that, if a commission is to be estabUshed to consider the position of Mr Justice Vasta, it should also be asked to consider the position of Judge Eric Charles Emest Pratt, QC, of the District Court.

Preparation of the legislation to estabish this commission, to draw its terms of reference and to make provision for its activities has now commenced. Whilst the Govemment will discuss with the Leader of the Opposition and the Leader of the Liberal Party the format of this legislation, the Govemment has made some policy decisions in relation to the commission. The commission will usuaUy sit in public, unless it determines that it is necessary to sit in private. The commission will be assisted by its own staff and counsel assisting. The commission will, however, have the benefit of material from, and staff assistance from, the Fitzgerald commission of inquiry. The commission will have full access to all material held by the Government and bodies such as the Police Complaints Tribunal. The commission will be under an obUgation to report to Mr Speaker by 30 March 1989 in relation to Mr Justice Vasta. A time-limit of the report by 27 May 1989, the date of report by Mr Fitzgerald, QC, will be set in relation to Judge Pratt. This time-limit has been set because judges of the District Court can be removed by the Govemor in Council, if appropriate, even if the House is not sitting.

The actual membership of the commission will be determined by resolution of this House. The commission will have the full powers possessed by a commission of inquiry.

The Govemment has decided to adopt a similar principle to that applied in the Fitzgerald commission, so far as the provision of legal aid is concemed. Consequently, no legal aid will be provided by the Govemment either to Mr Justice Vasta or Judge Pratt. The matters that this commission is to investigate are extremely serious and significant, for they go to the very heart of the maintenance of respect for Queensland's judicial system. As I have previously indicated, this Govemment is not afraid to grasp the nettle and confront issues no matter what pain this may cause. Serious allegations against members of the judiciary deserve serious and sober consideration.

I would hope that all members of this House are aware of the dangers that loose allegations against members of the judiciary can pose to one of the fundamental underpinnings of a democratic system of Govemment. I would hope that this legislation, when introduced, and the ultimate reports of the parliamentary commission of inquiry will receive sober and serious consideration by all members of this House and also by the media and various commentators.

In order that the record might be complete in relation to the matters surrounding Mr Justice Vasta, I table, and seek leave to incorporate in Hansard, a letter dated 24 October 1988 from the Chief Justice to myself, which was in response to my letter on 24 October 1988 to the Chief Justice previously tabled by the Premier.

I commend this statement to the House. Leave granted. Personal Explanation 8 November 1988 2133 Whereupon the honourable member laid on the table the following document— Chambers of the Chief Justice Supreme Court Brisbane 24th October, 1988 Private and Confidential The Honourable P. J. Clauson, M.L.A., Minister for Justice and Attomey-General of Queensland, State Law Building, Cnr. Ann & George Streets, Brisbane. Qld. 4000 My dear Attomey, I thank you for your letter of even date touching upon evidence given by the Honourable Mr. Justice Vasta in defamation proceedings by him in respect of articles published in a magazine named "Matilda" and in respect of a letter dated 7th November, 1985 from the Judge to Sir Terence Lewis which has been tendered to the Fitzgerald Inquiry. You mention as well that attention has been drawn in the Inquiry to Sir Terence's diaries which record numerous ijersonal and telephonic contacts between the Judge and the Commissioner of Police. You have no doubt drawn these matters to my attention as an intimation that further investigation will be undertaken. It is not made clear whether this will be carried out in the usual way or by way of examination before the Fitzgerald Inquiry, but this does not affect my view of the course which I should take. You state that you think it essential to put all the facts before me for my consideration for which I thank you. The material brings me to the opinion that investigation is called for as to whether an offence against section 123 of the Queensland Criminal Code has been committed. It is relevant also to a question whether misconduct has been demonstrated to such an extent that removal or censure might be considered. I would think that in the circumstances made known similar issues and exigencies of proof would be involved. It is hardly likely that there would be room for the latter if it were decided that there was no case to answer on the former. I note your emphasis, on which I take common ground with you, that the Judge has not had an opportunity to refute evidence before the Commission or the inferences which might be drawn from it or to cross-examine the Police Commissioner in relation to his recent evidence before the Inquiry. You also refer quite properly to the fundamental right of any person to a hearing and proper opportunity to defend his name and actions alleged against him. You wiU readily understand that Mr. Justice Vasta could not be expected to perform his regular duties efficiently while such an investigation is with his knowledge proceeding. I consider regrettably that the circumstances call for having Mr. Justice Vasta stand down from the performance of his regular judicial duties. I have made formal arrangements to effect this indefinitely until such time as due investigation has taken place which enables proper conclusions to be drawn. It should be made clear, of course, that I take this step in the public interest. It is not to be interpreted as any expression of opinion by me as to guilt or innocence because it would be no more appropriate for me to draw conclusions at this stage than it would for anybody else. No inference adverse to Mr. Justice Vasta should be drawn from what has taken place ^^"* ^^^- Yours faithfuUy, D. G. ANDREWS Chief Justice PERSONAL EXPLANATION Mr R. J. GIBBS (Wolston) (10.20 a.m.), by leave: On ABC radio yesterday morning during the Rod Henshaw program, the Leader of the Liberal Party made reference to me in relation to the Fitzgerald inquiry and to my being named at that inquiry on 4 November last year. Mr Acting Speaker, I wish to place before this House a record of the transcript and quote from it in relation to cross-examination undertaken by my representative at the commission of inquiry on 20 September this year. I am quoting from the transcript of the inquiry that records what my solicitor, Mr Tim Carberry, had to say in cross- examination of Mr Jack Herbert— 2134 8 November 1988 Personal Explanation "Let us look at the evidence that came from Mr. Parker's mouth which was said to have come from you about Mr. Gibbs and let us take it one step at a time. The first sentence is, 'He mentioned to me in passing on one occasion that a man named Bob Gibbs was a frequent visitor to the illegal casinos at the Gold Coast and on that occasion they looked after him.' Did you have anything to do with iUegal casinos at the Gold Coast?" Mr Herbert replied, "I did." The next questions by my counsel and the answers given to them were as follows— "Who were they mn by? Vic Conte and Gerry Bellino. The next sentence is, 'When Herbert made mention of "They looked after him" was he referring to anybody in particular in the conversation? Who were "they" that looked after him?' and Mr. Parker's answer was, 'Bellino or Conte, whoever was mnning the game.' Did Mr. Bellino or Mr. Conte in fact have a conversation with you about Mr. Gibbs? No, sir." On the foUowing day, 21 September, in cross-examination by none other than Mr Ian Callinan, QC, who was acting on behalf of the Queensland Govemment, a further question was asked of Herbert in the witness-box. Again, I wish to quote from the transcript. A further question was asked by Mr Callinan as follows— "Then Mr. Carberry put to you or asked you the position with respect to a Mr. Gibbs, a politician, and whether he was a frequent visitor at a casino?" Herbert answered— "Yes, sir." Mr Callinan then asked— "And you denied ever having told Parker that?" Herbert replied— "That's correct." Again Mr CaUinan asked— "Had you ever discussed Mr. Gibbs with Parker?" Herbert answered— "No, sir." I sincerely hope that the Leader of the Liberal Party's decency is a little larger than his pea-sized brain and that he has the decency to apologise to me. I seek leave to have these documents incorporated in Hansard. Leave granted. CARBERRY: MR. CARBERRY: You gave me leave on 4 November last year to represent THE COMMISSIONER: As long ago as that? MR. CARBERRY: Yes, Mr. Robert James Gibbs, M.L.A. THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I remember. MR. CARBERRY: I wish to ask Mr. Herbert some questions on his behalf THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, very well. Who gave the evidence involving MR. CARBERRY: Mr. Parker. I am going to go through that briefly. CROSS-EXAMINATION: BY MR. CARBERRY: So we all know what I am talking about, and it may well be that you have seen this in transcripts yourself beginning on 3 November last year Mr. Parker began in the evidence and on 4 November, at p. 3945, around that page, he gave evidence about—because he was asked questions by Mr. Crooke about conversations he had had with you. I think your evidence is that around about that time somebody was sending you the transcripts of Mr. Herbert's evidence?—Mr. Parker's evidence. Mr. Parker's evidence?—Yes, I would have received the transcript. In fact let me inform you that the document which became Exhibit 1374, that is to say your typewritten made-up statement?—Yes. Personal Explanation 8 November 1988 2135

Which was obtained when they raided the flat in London, contains references in the margin to pages of the transcript?—That is correct. You can take it from me, for instance, that at p. 7 of that statement there is a reference to, I think, correct me if I am wrong, p. 3921, line 50 in the margin?—Yes. THE COMMISSIONER: You had better show him, I think. WITNESS: I do recall that I was making those notations. BY THE COMMISSIONER: Can you remember that actual marginal notation?—No, not that actual one, but I do recall making them. 6/6 vjw/hs —16256— J. R. Herbert Cross-examination (Mr. Carberry) CARBERRY: MR. CARBERRY: I am happy to show him. THE COMMISSIONER: I don't think Mr. Carberry was totaUy confident of his reading of the writing; is that correct. MR. CARBERRY: That is right. (Handed to witness.) WITNESS: Yes, I see the page there you are referring to. BY MR. CARBERRY: Was it the case you received transcripts in daily bundles as it were? How did you receive them?—In one part, in a cardboard box. Could you tell that they were certain days, separate days?—I don't think so. I am not quite sure now. 7/6 vjw/hs —16257— J. R. Herbert Cross-examination (Mr. Carberry) CARBERRY: Just to help you, for instance the document I am holding up is one day's transcript for 4 November 1987?—I guess I would have—if it was on the transcript I would have—it would have been available to me to look at the date, yes. And that p. 3921 is from that same day. Would you like to see p. 3921?—(Handed to witness.) I just don't understand your question about whether it was the same day. You mean the same day as on the front of the transcript? I am trying to elicit from you, so far as you can recall and from your own note, whether you looked at the day's transcript which contains a certain allegation which you will find at p. 3945 of the document you hold in your left hand. You see, it appears from the notation before that you looked at p. 3921?—Yes. Now if you go to p. 3945?—Yes. You will see marked about in the middle of the page some evidence that Mr. Parker was giving about a conversation with you wherein he related something about Mr. Gibbs?—Yes, I have read that. Can you tell us whether you recall reading that at the time when it was sent over to you?—I can't recall actually reading it, but I would have done, because I read them in quite some detail. You know who Mr. Gibbs is, don't you?—I do, yes. He is an Opposition Member of Parliament in this State?—Yes. I have never met him but I know who he is, yes. Do you know, for instance, that during 1979 that he was the Opposition spokesperson on police matters?—I do have a recollection of that, yes. Would you know roughly whether between 1980 and 1984 he was the Opposition spokesperson on Justice and the Attomey General?—I would have read it, yes. I would have b»een aware that he was well up in the Opposition. BY THE COMMISSIONER: I don't think that is really what you are being asked, that he was well up in the Opposition. Would you have known the position he would have held? No, sir, I wouldn't have known the actual position. I have seen his name mentioned and I 2136 8 November 1988 Personal Explanation

have seen—I could recognise him from photographs or his appearances on TV, but not the actual position that he held, sir. BY MR. CARBERRY: Was what you were trying to say that you knew that he was, for instance, a Front Bencher in the Opposition?—Well, he seemed to speak out a lot more than some of the others. Tum 7 ww/km —16258— J. R. Herbert Cross-examination (Mr. Carberry) CARBERRY: May I have those documents back, please?—Yes, sir. (Handed to Mr. Carberry.) BY MR. CARBERRY: Just to put that transcript about Mr. Gibbs in context, do you accept that, as it appears in the transcript at the time and I will give it back to you if you need to refresh your memory, that Mr. Parker was being asked questions generally about information that he had obtained from you during the period that he was the detective inspector in charge of the Licensing Branch?—Yes. At p. 3903 it appears that that was from 20 September 1982 to 18 August 1985?—Yes, and a period before that as well. Yes, but not as detective inspector in charge?—No. During the questioning by Mr. Crooke last year, do you accept that names of persons were postulated to Mr. Parker and he was asked to tell this Commission what you had told him about those people?—Yes, I understand the situation. One was Mr. Don Lane, as you may recall; one was the late Mr. Ric Allen?—Yes. One was an unnamed joumalist at the Gold Coast?—Yes. And another one was my client, Mr. Gibbs?—Yes. As I understand it, you have given in evidence your comments about some of the allegations against Mr. Lane and Mr. Allen. That is correct, isn't it?—Yes. For instance, you said part of the allegation, if I may caU it an allegation which came from Mr. Parker's mouth about Mr. Lane was incorrect?—Yes. And the entire allegation about Mr. Allen—the late Mr. Ric Allen—was incorrect?—It was a minor thing. It wasn't what he stated, sir. It was something so minor that it wouldn't be worth mentioning. Let us look at the evidence that came from Mr. Parker's mouth which was said to have come from you about Mr. Gibbs and let us take it one step at a time. The first sentence is, "He mentioned to me in passing on one occasion that a man named Bob Gibbs was a frequent visitor to the illegal casinos at the Gold Coast and on that occasion they looked after him." Did you have anything to do with Ulegal casinos at the Gold Coast?—I did. Who were they mn by?—Vic Conte and Gerry Bellino. 2/7 ww/km —16259- J. R. Herbert Cross-examination (Mr. Carberry) CARBERRY: The next sentence is, "When Herbert made mention of 'They looked after him' was he referring to anybody in particular in the conversation? Who were 'they' that looked after him?" and Mr. Parker's answer was, "Bellino or Conte, whoever was mnning the game." Did Mr. Bellino or Mr. Conte in fact have a conversation with you about Mr. Gibbs? No, sir. Mr CARBERRY: Those are my questions. CROSS-EXAMINATION: SIR TERENCE LEWIS: Just one question first, if I may? If I am referring to something that has been previously mentioned in evidence, do you want me to tell you the page number, or would that only be if you ask? THE COMMISSIONER: If h is convenient I think it is probably best to tell me, Sir Terence, so that I can just quickly check that we have got the context and so on right. BY SIR TERENCE LEWIS: When you were located in London, who was the first person from Queensland to speak to you? This is after I was arrested, sir? Withdrawal of Notices of Motion 8 November 1988 2137

Yes? 1 spent the night in the watchhouse and the next day I went home. I couldn't answer that, sir. I don't recall. You say Mr. Needham later spoke to you. Was he the only gentleman from the Commission of Inquiry to interview you in England? I'm sorry, I misunderstood your question. I thought you meant any person from Australia. That is what I meant to say in the first place, yes? And you mean now from the Commission? That is my second question? 1 see. The first occasion Mr. Needham contacted me would have been after I contacted my solicitor in Austraha. Was Mr. Needham the only gentleman from the Commission to speak to you whUst you were in London? Yes, sir. When was my name first raised in the interviews with you? Whilst I was in London. Who raised it first? Once again, it would have to have been me, sir. Did you give any statements to different people in London? No, sir. The only person you gave a statement or statements to was in fact Mr. Needham? That's correct. 3/7 ww/km -16260- J. R. Herbert Cross-examination (Sir Terence Lewis) HERBERT: in the manner they would have liked to have done. I see. All right. Parker gave some evidence that you told him that following a front-page article in the Gold Coast Bulletin about illegal casinos on the Gold Coast, that the people mnning the game on the Coast had got to the joumalist and were paying him $500 a month not to write that type of article. Do you know of anything of that kind? 1 do recall some conversation in relation to that, sir, yes. From memory, it was Vic Conte that told me that, and I would have passed that on to Parker, because Parker knew of the game down the Coast, but I don't know of the joumalist, sir, who Conte would have been referring to. We are not going to hear the name of the joumalist No, sir. Did you hear it at any stage? No, sir. Then Mr. Carberry put to you or asked you the position with respect to a Mr. Gibbs, a politician, and whether he was a frequent visitor at a casino? Yes, sir. And you denied ever having told Parker that? That's correct. Had you ever discussed Mr. Gibbs with Parker? No, sir. Can I just take you back? Do you know how it came about that the Commissioner of Police became Commissioner of Police? Do you know yourself? No, sir. I haven't the foggiest idea. He was promoted over a number of people to Assistant Commissioner, wasn't he? Yes, sir. That must have been a topic of much conversation in your circles? WeU, had I been in the circles you are referring to, yes, but at that particular stage, I just finished my trial, and I went to live at Loganholme for a year, sir, and then during that year I was travelling around Queensland, and apart from possibly mnning into a policeman here and there, I was isolated firom what you may term "bar talk". But it would be more than "bar talk" in the Police Force? But I wasn't in the Police Force, sir. But you still associated with a number of policemen. You drank regularly with Tony Murphy, didn't you? Not during that period, sir. You drank occasionally with him, didn't you? Yes, sir. 3/18 MIS/dr -16416- J. R. Herbert Cross-examination (Mr. Calhnan)

WITHDRAWAL OF NOTICES OF MOTION Mr WELLS (Murmmba) (10.24 a.m.): In view of the statement made by the Honourable the Attomey-General this morning, I seek leave to withdraw two notices of motion standing in my name under General Business—Notices of Motion: notice of 2138 8 November 1988 Questions Without Notice motion No. 18, which was called not formal on 25 October; and notice of motion No. 2, which was set down for today. Those notices of motion have now served their purpose. Leave granted.

QUESTION UPON NOTICE Toowoomba General Hospital Mr BERGHOFER asked the Minister for Health— "(1) When is it planned to upgrade Toowoomba General Hospital? (2) When will funds be available for this project?" Mrs HARVEY: (1) Over recent years more than $15m has been made available for the expansion and upgrading of hospital facilities coming under the control of the Toowoomba Hospitals Board. Projects undertaken and completed include a new medical block and a new service block at the Toowoomba General Hospital, as well as major upgrading of facilities at Oakey and Gatton. This ongoing program of improvement will continue and during the current triennium major emphasis will be placed on the total upgrading of Ward M6. (2) As far as M6 is concemed, following recent discussions with my parliainentary colleagues, board members and departmental officers, urgent action has been taken to ensure that an early start can be achieved for this project. I have authorised that, the project budget for the upgrading of psychiatric facilities for Toowoomba General Hospital^ be iiicreased from $lm to $2m. The board, on my recommendation, has appointed a well-known architect to expedite the preparation of preliminary documentation and this will facilitate the submission of proposals by appropriate extemal firms. Tenders in connection with the new psychiatric unit will be called before the end of the year and work is expected to begin early in 1989. One of the criteria used in assessing the submissions from such firms will be each firm's ability to carry out a project within budget and within a fairly tight time-frame. I am satisfied that the current planned program to upgrade M6 and other aspects of the Toowoomba General Hospital is appropriate for a major provincial hospital. I thank the honourable member for Toowoomba South, Mr Berghofer, for his persistent representations to have this matter attended to with the utmost urgency. I have had to reorganise capital works priorities in order to find the extra $lm. The organisation and upgrading of all psychiatric units in Queensland has been a top priority for this Government and this Toowoomba project has been part of an overall strategy of physically and organisationally upgrading all psychiatric units, including Townsville, Mackay, the security patients' hospital at Wolston Park and the recent upgrading of the unit in Brisbane.

VISIT BY ELECTORATE SECRETARIES Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Before proceeding to questions without notice, I would remind honourable members that their electorate secretaries are present in the gallery. We are privileged to have them here. Honourable members: Hear, hear!

QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE State Economic Development Strategy Mr GOSS: In directing a question to the Premier and Treasurer, I refer to the much-promised State Economic Development Strategy developed for the Government at a cost to the public purse of half a million doUars, and I ask: is it tme that the only persons the Premier has formally given a copy of the strategy document are Sir Robert Questions Without Notice 8 November 1988 2139

Sparkes and the Premier's personal public relations consultant, Mr Baudino, and, if members of the Premier's own Cabinet have not yet received a copy, when will they be given one? Mr AHERN: Again, the honourable Leader of the Opposition's information is sadly awry. No copy of the document has been given to Sir Robert Sparkes or Bob Baudino. The matter is in the hands of the members of the economic policy committee of the State Cabinet and has been for some time. Mr GOSS: You won't even give it to your own Cabinet. Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I must remind the Leader of the Opposition and all other members that impromptu interjections at question-time do not conform to the mles of the House. Road Toll; Random Breath-testing Mr GOSS: In asking a question of the Premier and Treasurer, I refer to the mounting road toll in Queensland, which, after another four deaths ovemight, now stands at 450 deaths so far this year and is heading for a total of more than 650 deaths in 1988. Mr Katter: If we got some money from the Federal Govemment we might be able to do something about it. Mr GOSS: Mr Acting Speaker, I presume that that is in accordance with Standing Orders? Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I have already made a mling that impromptu interjections during question-time are out of order. That applies to both sides of the Chamber. Mr GOSS: I now ask the Premier: when will his Govemment act to help reduce the slaughter on the State's roads by agreeing to the introduction of a properly funded and resourced system of random breath-testing of motorists? Mr AHERN: I am sure that all honourable members share a common concern about the mounting road toll in this State. Other States of Australia have similar problems; people are being injured and killed by the day. It is a senseless slaughter. What has to be said in the first instance is that this is not a problem that Governments alone can solve. It is a community problem of very substantial proportions. Certainly Govemment has a role to play and will play it, but the community as a whole has to understand the general difficulty and be prepared to take the necessary actions to drive more carefully and to ensure that they act with responsibility when they are behind the steering-wheels of motor cars in our State and nation. Our Govemment is considering a number of policy options at the moment and I expect that my Minister for Transport will be able to report those matters to the Parliament shortly. I express concem about this matter, which will require certain further action on the part of the Government, and also the community of Queensland, if this dreadful problem is to be substantiaUy stemmed. Mr Goss: Will you consider random testing? Mr AHERN: In respect of random breath-testing, I must state that it substantially exists in this State. At this stage a policeman can stop a motorist; in fact, I saw it happening in town here last night after a function that I attended. It is happening across the board. A whole range of policy options will be announced shortly by my Minister for Transport. Manning of Metropolitian Fire Stations Mr FITZGERALD: I ask the Minister for Corrective Services and Administrative Services: did he read a report in the Courier-Mail of 7 November that quoted the Liberal member for Toowong as stating that up to 60 firemen could be sacked by the Metropolitan 2140 8 November 1988 Questions Without Notice

Fire Brigades Board and that night shifts at Brisbane suburban stations would be axed? If so, could he advise the House if that information is accurate? Mr COOPER: No, the information is not accurate. In fact, it is most inaccurate. I am afraid that is fairly typical of the member for Toowong. All I can do is shake my head and wonder where he gets his information from—although in this instance I have a pretty fair idea. The short answer is that there are no cuts in the 1988-89 Budget—full stop! In fact, the 1988-89 Budget contained increases in excess of 8 per cent for fire services across the State. The increase for the MetropoUtan Fire Brigades Board was almost 9 per cent, from $26.4m to $29.Im. A Government member: He is not even listening. Mr COOPER: No, he is not; but he can read my answer later. There will be no staff cuts by the MetropoUtan Fire Brigades Board, but, yes, there will be staff increases. Last week an announcement was made that staff would be increased by six. There will be no change in manning levels. Manning will continue on a 24-hour basis; it is business as usual. The statement of the honourable member for Toowong that people would need to have fires between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. is garbage and utter rot. It is false information that is rather typical of the member for Toowong's disinfor­ mation and disservice to the people of Toowong in particular and the people of Queensland in general. The Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board includes three Liberal aldermen. Because there was some concem about the budgetary figures, I sent the Commissioner of Fire Services, Commissioner Belcher, to a meeting to explain the position. He outlined that the board's budget had been increased by almost 9 per cent. Unfortunately, the three Liberal aldermen who are supposed to sit on that board did not attend that meeting. In actual fact, they leaked, rather unethically, false information to the member for Toowong, who then came crashing down flat on his face. In today's Courier-Mail the Chairman of the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board, Mr Stewart McFarlane, issued a press statement pointing out that the comments of the member for Toowong are totally inaccurate and that he should be ashamed of himself It is timely to mention that a commission of review headed by Dr Sally Leivesley commenced on 1 November. I suggest to people such as the member for Toowong that they get their facts straight and put them to her, so that Queensland will have fire services that are second to none. I am sure that, by the end of the day, that will be the case, but I hope to God that the member for Toowong gets his facts right.

Queensland Treasury Corporation Mr FITZGERALD: I ask the Premier and Treasurer: has his attention been drawn to an article in the Business Review Weekly of 4 November titled "Who Dares, Wins in the Dealing Room", which states that the "Queensland Treasury Corporation is miles ahead" of its counterparts involved in the foreign exchange industry? What are the facts? Mr AHERN: At present, overall economic management is a priority agenda item in Australia. Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! There is far too much audible conversation in the Chamber. I remind the Leader of the Opposition that he is not in his usual seat. Mr AHERN: The Victorian Economic Development Corporation is under close scmtiny. West Australia Incorporated is also under daily scmtiny. As well, there is the issue in New South Wales in respect of the performance of the Unsworth Govemment relative to the Curran report. Recently, on 4 November, the Business Review Weekly assessed the Queensland Treasury Corporation. It is in the interests of all honourable members to consider the Questions Without Notice 8 November 1988 2141 overall economic management of the Queensland Treasury Corporation and what the Business Review Weekly thinks about its performance. The article states— " 'Queensland Treasury Corporation is miles ahead,' one dealer says.

'These guys are becoming less involved in day-to-day market activity and concen­ trating on portfolio management. This has made them a lot more professional and tme to their purpose, which is to manage debt and not make trading profits.' 'Confident, professional and able to make quick decisions,' is how two dealers describe Fumess." Mr Fumess is the manager of the Queensland Treasury Corporation. The article continues— "The poU's high opinion of the Queensland Treasury in the govemment sector reflects the Treasury's excellent performance in the past year, at a time when many states' forex operations were losing money. Manager Barry Fumess has played a significant role in cutting the Treasury's unrealised foreign exhange losses from $244 million a year ago to only $38 million. He oversees a $2.4 billion foreign borrowings exposure, of which about $370 million is unhedged. Fumess says credit should be shared with his seven staff and his 'intelligent and dedicated' superiors." The Curran report indicated that, under Labor, New South Wales had total liabilities of about $46 billion—the equivalent of $8,200 for every person in the State—borrowings of $24.7 bUlion and unfunded liabilities of $14.7 billion. It also indicated that the State's debt has doubled over the past five years and that the interest burden has risen from $503m to $1,419m. In the Labor States of Australia, there has been economic irrespon­ sibility. In Queensland, there has been exceUent supervision of the State's cash reserves, asset management and debt management. That is now being acknowledged widely in Australia. The Govemment is proud of its economic management.

Review of Previous Police Department Annual Reports Mr BURNS: In directing a question to the Minister for Police, I remind him that in previous years, when I claimed that the police report figures on clean-up rates were false, he attacked me and supported Commissioner Lewis and his reports. I draw to the Minister's attention a statement by Mr Ian Callinan, QC, when appearing for the Govemment before the commission of inquiry, that Police Department annual reports gave a false picture to Parliament, that Parliament was misled and that the 100 per cent clean-up rate for prostitution was patently absurd. In the light of Mr Callinan's comments, I ask: will the Minister make arrangements to have reviewed all Police Department annual reports covering the Lewis years, which have been tabled in this House, so that the tme figures can be made available to all honourable members? Will he also take action against those officers who were responsible for the overall control of the department and who gave those false figures to this House? Mr GUNN: I have requested Mr Callinan to provide me with that brief In due course, when I receive it, I will report back to this House.

Committee to Review Liquor Act Mr BURNS: In directing a question to the Minister for Justice and Attomey- General, I refer to the appointment of Mr Sam Doumany to head a review of the Liquor Act, to be assisted by a representative of the churches, restaurateur Mrs Ann Garms, hotelier Mr Gary Balkin and brewer Mr Bemie Power. I ask: why does that committee have only hotel, restaurant, brewery and church representatives on it, when it does not have one person representing the hundreds of thousands of workers in the industry or people from RSL clubs, bowls clubs, cricket clubs, golf clubs and all those clubs that have a major share in the industry? Why are those two groups left off the committee? 2142 8 November 1988 Questions Without Notice

Mr CLAUSON: The committee was established to be of workable size and to give the broadest possible cross-section of representation within the liquor industry. Mr Burns: You could have dropped Ann Garms off. Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I point out to the member for Lytton that I have mled that there will be no intermptions to answers to questions. Mr Burns: I stiU asked the question. Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The member for Lytton has asked his question. Mr CLAUSON: Thank you for your protection, Mr Acting Speaker. Mr Burns: Why did you leave these blokes off? Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! If members respond in that manner to every mling that I make, there will be no point in making any mlings. The House will come to order. Mr CLAUSON: On my third attempt—as I stated when I began to answer the honourable member's question, the committee was designed to cover a very broad section of the liquor industry itself It was set up in that way to represent both the hotel and restaurant industries, the church and dmg dependence areas, and society in general. The idea is that any interested parties such as the people who work in the liquor trades industry An honourable member interjected. Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Orderi I take it that the Minister's answer has concluded? Mr CLAUSON: I will conclude the answer to the question when I have an opportunity to do so. Mr Burns interjected. Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I wam the member for Lytton under Standing Order 123A. During the answer to the question he has broken every mle that I have endeavoured to impose. The Chamber will come to order. The Minister will be allowed to finish his answer to the question in silence. I call the Minister. Mr CLAUSON: Thank you, Mr Acting Speaker. If he listens to the answer to the question, he might leam something as well. I will continue my answer, which seems to have become somewhat convoluted because of the interjections. The committee was set up in that way so that workers, the QHA, trade representatives and industry representatives could make submissions to the committee. That is the whole point. Mr Burns: Why wouldn't you put one on? Mr CLAUSON: Is there a QHA member on the committee? No, there is not. The reason is that the Govemment does not want Caesar appealing to Caesar on this committee. The whole idea of the committee is that it is a broad cross-sectional committee that can listen to people who work in the industry and who own businesses in the industry. That is why the committee has been set up in the way that it has.

Coal-miners Strike Mr STEPHAN: I direct a question to the Minister for Employment, Training and Industrial Affairs. I draw his attention to the 48-hour coal strike involving 30 000 miners and $30m in lost coal production, and I ask: what are the reasons for this strike? Could the Minister advise whether it is a result of the recent decision by the Coal Industry Tribunal regarding awards and work practices? Questions Without Notice 8 November 1988 2143

Mr LESTER: The senseless strike that is taking place in Queensland as well as in New South Wales is a result of disputes in the Newcastle area. Queensland is in keen competition with New South Wales; there is no doubt about that. In addition, Queensland is in keen competition with other parts of the world, particularly the United States of America and Canada. There are huge coal deposits in Russia and China. The Queensland union-leaders are being subservient to the bigger numbers in New South Wales and they are directing the Queensland workers to go out on strike. I might say that the great majority of them do not want to be involved in this particular strike. I am now in the position of having to call upon the Queensland union-leaders to give serious consideration to moving out on their own. I cannot for the life of me see why our union-leaders have to be part of the overall scene when, on every occasion, they are outvoted by New South Wales. This is very definitely a case in point. At present the strike rate in the coal-mining industry is approximately 50 times above the average of ordinary industry. That is horrific and reflects very, very badly on Queensland. However, approximately 66 per cent of the work-force in State unions are responsible for about only 8 per cent of this State's strikes. Would not the coal-mining fratemity love to have that situation in Queensland? Approximately 12 per cent of people are not in unions at all. Those people do not go on strike. The other 24 per cent of unions registered federally are responsible for about 90 per cent of this State's strikes. I know that our union-leaders do not want to do it, but it is very, very clear that they should start to show a lead and get out of this entrenched system in which Queensland is subservient to New South Wales. They should get out on their own and strive to achieve a lower strike rate, and that involves being in a State union. Purchase of Kern Corporation Shares by Queensland Treasury Corporation Mr INNES: I direct a question to the Premier. I refer to the answer that he gave to me three or four weeks ago in regard to the Queensland Treasury Corporation, in which he indicated that the advisory committees were not fully in place. I refer also to the massive purchase of shares in Kern Corporation. I ask: had the appointment of advisory committees been completed by the time of the Kem purchase? Who advised the Queensland Treasury Corporation on that purchase? What were the reasons for the acquisition of those shares? Was it in any way related to take-over bids? Mr AHERN: The advisory committee on investments has not yet been appointed. Due consideration is being given to that matter. As the honourable member would be aware, the corporation itself is a corporation sole, being the Under Treasurer of Queensland. The Under Treasurer had an opportunity to participate in a major share parcel in this Queensland company, which showed very good growth prospects. Entirely on the basis of asset valuation in relation to share valuation, the decision was made to proceed with the purchase. It was in no way related to any threatened take-over activity at all. Guide-lines are being developed. Those guide-lines will soon be at the stage at which they can be tabled in the Parliament. We have been working on them for some time. I will arrange for those guide-lines to be tabled shortly. The criterion is quite clear. If a substantial benefit is to be gained from a share purchase, when consideration is given to the valuation of assets over share value, then it is considered. That cannot be separated totally from a share transaction which might be taking place elsewhere in a particular company's portfolio. This was a substantial benefit to the Queensland Treasury Corporation, so the decision was made. I was consulted about it, as was the Minister for Finance. It is in no way related to the take-over. It is in every way related to the enhancement in the value of the shares that is possible, considering the valuation of the assets and the future prospects. 2144 8 November 1988 Questions Whhout Notice

In recent times the Leader of the Liberal Party has sought to be critical of the Govemment's establishment of the QTC and has asserted that the Govemment should not be involved in equity purchases or share purchases at all and that perhaps it should stick to the bond market or to blue-chip securities of one type or another. When one looks at all of the other States of Australia and at the public benefit to be gained, one will see that that is plain nonsense; it is just not a rational suggestion to make. The tax-payer of Queensland has to make an enormous contribution towards publicly funding superannuation schemes in this State. One has to ask whether there are not better investment strategies to be adopted that will reduce the tax-payer's contribution towards public service superannuation schemes. Companies such as National Mutual and AMP arrange funds of that type and have a broad range of investments in their portfoUos. They have a certain amount of blue-chip investment; they have a certain amount of property investment; they have a certain amount of equity in the portfolio. That is necessary to get maximisation of the benefit to flow. To mle out the public sector entirely from equity transactions is a nonsense and it simply means that the tax­ payer has to put more into the fiind. The Govemment believes that, through the management of this program with good clear guide-lines, the tax-payers of Queensland will save $30m on public service superannuation investments alone, representing a very substantial saving to the tax­ payer. Equities and shares will have to be a part of the investment program of QTC and meet very strict guide-Unes. There is no "Queensland Incorporated" operating here. In terms of investment strategies that have to be adopted, clear guide-lines are laid down, and they will be tabled in the Parliament shortly.

Bond University Mr NEWTON: I ask the Minister for Education, Youth and Sport: has his attention been drawn to the editorial in today's Australian under the headline "Bond University— a bright harbinger"? Mr LITTLEPROUD: I have noticed the editorial in today's Australian. Of course, it comes from the Bond University, which is the first private university in AustraUa and which yesterday enrolled its first student. It was interesting to note that the name of the first student is "Wiseman". The editorial states— "Bond University yesterday enrolled its first student for 1989. In doing so it ushered in a new era in Australian tertiary education. The development of a viable private university in Australia, hopefully the first of numerous such institutions, could change forever the culture of Australian higher education and produce a new era of diversity and excellence. Bond University is an astonishingly brave project." The Bond University ought to be congratulated. The editorial continues— "The arguments against private universities by Australia's academic trade unions are completely unconvincing. Some of the finest universities in the world, such as Harvard and Princeton, are private institutions." I remind honourable members of comments that were made when the Bond University Bill was being debated on 9 April 1987. At that time, the Opposition's Education spokesman said— "The Bond University Bill reminds me of the fairy-tale about the emperor's new clothes. All honourable members know the tale well. The emperor was conned by a con man into paying out a great deal of money to this fellow who was to spin him an invisible suit of clothes, which required a great deal of attention. This BiU deals with what might be described as the emperor's new university. It is the university that is not really a university at aU. One only has to read section Matters of Public Interest 8 November 1988 2145

11 of the BiU, which quite clearly outlines that the Bond University is not really a university at all. It is nowhere near being a university." I could also make the comment that in that Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I think that the subject-matter is not quite relevant to the question. I ask the Minister to conclude his answer. Eumundi-Nandroya Railway Line Mr R. J. GIBBS: In directing a question to the Minister for Transport, I refer to the future of a section of railway line from Eumundi to Nandroya. I understand that applications have been made to the Minister by the historical society to allow that track to remain because of the historical nature of the railway in the Eumundi district, its tourist potential and other associated commercial benefits. I ask: is the Minister prepared to allow three weeks' grace to the local historical society to allow it an opportunity in that time to raise the necessary money itself to purchase that section of the railway Une so that it can develop it? Or is the Minister going ahead, as has been indicated, and having the track tom up as of Wednesday of this week? I ask: will the Minister allow the historical society an extra three weeks' grace? Mr I. J. GIBBS: The issue has been addressed over a long period. The Maroochy Shire Council looked at the proposal very seriously and walked away from it. Some months have passed, during which time many people have lodged submissions to keep the railway line operating. The Govemment is very sympathetic with the whole notion of retaining it as a historical railway line. Nobody came forward with any money. A great deal of money is needed to keep the line open. For a long time, the authorities have held off pulUng up that railway line, which I believe will be done this week. A submission was received today from a person who lives in that area, but it contained no substance at all. At present that railway line will be pulled up. Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The time allotted for questions has now expired.

MATTERS OF PUBLIC INTEREST Scott Marian Mr R. J. GIBBS (Wolston) (11.01 a.m.): I wish to draw the attention of Queenslanders to one of the lowest forms of animal life in this State. I refer to Scott Marian, who has a criminal record dating back to December 1976. At 21 years of age he was arrested and charged with the unlawful killing of Maurice Wayne Blum on 4 December 1976. At that time Marian was working as a bouncer at the Boogie Room disco at the Mooloolaba Hotel. Apparently, Blum smashed some glasses and Marian ejected him violently from the hotel. Next moming, Blum was found dead. On 17 June 1977 Marian was acquitted of the charge in the State criminal court. In 1979, Marian was arrested for the murder on 5 July of two-year-old Jodie Kay New of Toowong. One month before that he had married the chUd's mother. He was supposed to be looking after the child. At 9 p.m. the child was put into the bath-tub, and an ambulance was called at 10.23 p.m. However, the child was dead on arrival at the hospital. The official cause of death was asphyxiation. There were a number of bruises on the child's body. The prosecution argued that Marian had either stopped the child's breathing by holding his hand over her mouth after she was out of the bath or by doing the very same thing and holding the child under the water. Marian pleaded not guUty and was acquitted of murder. However, on 1 September 1980 he was gaoled for 10 years for manslaughter. The amazing thing is that I have been unable to ascertain when he was paroled. 2146 8 November 1988 Matters of Public Interest

The next mention of Marian appears on 2 December 1986 in the Lewis diaries. The entry states— "Des Sturgess phoned re a Scott Marian arrested with 1 lb of heroin and $70,000 and wanting to co-operate." There was no further mention of Marian; but it appears that, since he was let out on the streets, Marian has been quite busy. I have been informed by police sources that Marian was actually Agent Fish in a large undercover dmg operation called Operation Perch. As honourable members will have noticed, those are both plays on Marian's name. Marian was used as a special informant to help set up two Lebanese men from Sydney who were selling approximately $100,000-worth of heroin in January 1987 at the Chevron Hotel in Surfers Paradise. Marian helped convict AU Elhusseini, 24, formerly of Lebanon, of having unlawfully trafficked in heroin between 19 and 29 January. Steve Elsahili, 25, was also found guilty of having unlawfully possessed 150.89 grams of heroin on 28 January. The two-week trial was protected by an almost unprecedented security screen, which, as I understand it, was ordered by Mr Des Sturgess and the now Acting Commissioner of Police, Mr Ron Redmond. It was later revealed that Steve Elsahili, who was a former New South Wales prison officer, is the cousin of PLO leader, Yassar Arafat. Investigations reveal that ElsahUi was dealing with Arab terrorist organisations in order to finance his links. At that time the Corrective Services Minister in the New South Wales State Govemment, Michael Yabsley, also mentioned ElsahUi in the New South Wales ParUament in a Ust of cormpt prison officers. On 5 May in the Court of Criminal Appeal, Mr Des Sturgess successfully had appeals by both of those men overtumed. The Sun newspaper later reported—as I understand it, from an anonymous phone call that was later backed up by police sources—that a Sydney hitman had been hired by the organisation that was behind the two Lebanese crims to get rid of Marian. It was revealed that there were two attempts on Marian's life. One was in the city outside the Myer Centre, but unfortunately the gun jammed. Another police source has informed me that he tried to arrest Marian after he had caught him with a huge cache of heroin; but that, when he tried to prosecute Marian, he was officiaUy ordered, via Des Sturgess, to drop the charges. Regrettably, the information given to me is that that direction came from none other than the Attorney-General, Mr Clauson. The police officer concemed was absolutely furious. He knew of the bail conditions and the indemnity that had been given to Marian on previous occasions, but did not believe that they should apply when Marian was dealing or trading in heroin. He has advised me that on three or four occasions other police have busted Marian but have had those cases pulled on them. That police officer told me that there had been a lot of intemal memos about the case flying around police headquarters but that none of them has ever achieved anything. He claimed that the Director of Prosecutions, Mr Sturgess, and the Attomey-General, Mr Clauson, were stepping in each time and preventing any further action. His complaint to me is: why should that man be allowed on the streets to sell heroin to Queensland kids and thereby min their Uves with—it would appear—the complete protection and backing of the Queensland Govemment? Why is it that a major dealer in heroin who has been before the courts on two occasions for murder charges has somehow been given protection? Somebody is looking after his back. On four occasions he has been arrested by the police in possession of large amounts of heroin and large amounts of cash. On every occasion somebody has pulled the mg when the police have wanted to charge him. He has been allowed out on the streets to murder kids in this State in his illegal dmg-trafficking deals. The police complaints come from even higher sources than the arresting officers. According to a letter that has been circulated, at least Acting Commissioner Redmond appears to have tried to step in at one stage. That letter dated 13 August 1987 from Matters of Public Interest 8 November 1988 2147

Redmond to Lewis comes across as an official complaint about the favourable treatment that Marian was receiving. It refers to a meeting that was held between Redmond, Sturgess, Dmg Squad Inspector Murt Butler, a Sergeant White and a Detective Senior Sergeant Kruger. Sturgess approached Redmond to speak about Marian and his brother Donald and "to speak on the matter of their bail conditions". Mr Sturgess stated that the Marian brothers had supplied and were supplying large quantities of dmgs. The letter went on to talk about their favourable bail conditions and how they did not have to go into poUce stations or see parole officers personally, but could ring from wherever they were. The supposed purpose of the Marian brothers' being granted bail at the direction of the Director of Prosecutions was the fear that two Lebanese dmg-dealers inside Boggo Road gaol would want to kill them. As I said, they were both purportedly members of the PLO. I am reliably informed that, in addition to that, members of the Federated Ship Painters and Dockers Union were interested in the whereabouts of both the Marian brothers and were aware that the Marians were supplying information to the police. The Marians had been told that they would be shot on sight if they came anywhere near the 'Gabba Police Station. The letter also mentions that a Detective Senior Sergeant Charlie Grimple arrested Marian on 15 September 1987 on a dmg matter. The letter also stated that Sturgess had held a meeting with Attomey-General Paul Clauson, but then it finished by stating— "I have advised Sturgess that the dropping of the charges against the Marian brothers will not be entertained by the Queensland Police Department." It was Acting Commissioner Redmond who was stating that. I wiU repeat it. He stated— "I have advised Sturgess that the dropping of the charges against the Marian brothers will not be entertained by the Queensland Police Department." Marian was never prosecuted on any of the four occasions on which dmg charges were levelled or placed against him during the previous two years. That is causing an absolute furore among the honest, decent members of the Queensland police force. The Attorney-General is in the Chamber now. I believe that he has a responsibility to explain his role in this matter. He should not use the very weak excuse that he gave in an article in yesterday's Sun newspaper that Marian—this piece of excrement—is currently inside. At present he is inside. We know why he is inside. I will not go into that, because it is a matter that is sub judice, and I respect that. However, I know that at present he is inside. It is the fifth time that he has been arrested with dmgs in his possession. It was only on the fifth occasion that that happened that he was put in Boggo Road. Why did the Attomey-General not do something about it on the other four occasions? What has been his role in this whole sordid, dirty set-up? Just as importantly, what has been the role of the Director of Prosecutions? Has he been pulUng the mat and using Marian as an undercover agent for his specific purposes, or have sources within the Queensland Police Department been using him as an undercover agent, as I explained on a previous occasion? Many questions have to be answered. I chaUenge the Attomey-General to reply to them.

Government Regulation of Smoking Mr HYND (Nerang) (11.10 a.m.): In speaking today on a matter of public interest, I wish to express my concem over the discrimination currently being practised against a large number of Australian citizens. These citizens are responsible for a major contribution to Australia's economy. They are responsible for supporting a manufacturing and mral industry which contributes $4,324m annually to the Australian economy, and this includes $25,549,000 for advertising and promotion. 2148 8 November 1988 Matters of Public Interest

The end-product has an annual retail value of $2,276m. The purchasers of this product are now being discriminated against by our Federal Govemment. In fact, the consumers of this product are being treated as second-class citizens. I am, of course, referring to the social habit of smoking, which was first introduced into the Westem World after Columbus and Cortez retumed from the New World, having leamed that the natives of this New World smoked and referred to their cigarettes as "tobaccos". Sir Walter Raleigh first brought tobacco to the shores of England in 1580. At about that time Sir Francis Drake and his coUeague Hawkins started plundering Spanish ships to bring tobacco to England. The smoking custom is now approaching the 500th anniversary of its introduction to Westem society. The industry maintains its viewpoint that smoking should remain a legitimate social custom for those adults who, being aware of the alleged risks to health, have the right to make their own choice. Any proposals for Govemment regulation of smoking should be consistent with general principles of public policy rather than reflect an ad hoc response to demands from pressure groups or sections of the bureaucracy. In this regard, health considerations are only one part of a vast array of public policies at a Federal, State and local government level affecting the tobacco industry. Yet, bureaucracy today dictates that these contributors to our economy must not partake of their specific social practice in aircraft flying within Australia and, even worse, that these people must refrain from indulging themselves within some Federal Govemment buildings. Again, a vocal minority dictate to the Hawke regime and discriminate against one-third of the adult population of AustraUa. The $25,549,000 spent annually on advertising represents a healthy tax retum to Federal Treasury and our Federal Govemment, yet they choose to stop the tobacco companies advertising on television and thus restrict the important mle of informing the consumers about product changes and other information such as price, packet content, taste and blend. Advertising has played a major role in the move from non- filter to filter-tip cigarettes and has increased public awareness of the availability of mild cigarettes. Restricting the abUity of companies to advertise competitively creates a market monopoly. Competition encourages investment and ultimately creates jobs, which are the most important ingredients in AustraUa's economy today. The industry does not seek through its advertising to influence chUdren or non-smoking adults to take up the smoking habit. As a matter of policy the tobacco industry does not in any way condone smoking by children. In recent times investigations have been carried out to define the motivations that distinguish smokers from non-smokers, and the conclusion is that the decision to smoke or not is complex; it principally appears to be related to interpersonal factors such as the attitudes and behaviour of parents and peers. Self-regulation by the advertising industry has been acknowledged by Govemments and Oppositions, the community, and indeed the judiciary, as well as by established practice, which works in the public interest. When the First Reet sailed for New South Wales, as well as the human cargo one of the necessities packed away in the straining holds was tobacco. It was considered a necessity—an essential—for English exiles on a continent as alien as Australia. Tobacco was important to this new colony. Two years after settlement, one of the first four grants of free land made was the site of Australia's first experimental tobacco crop. Experimentation went on during the first century after settlement. Even for the first half of this century, the history of the industry was one of unrivalled difficulty. It was only after 1950, when production was increased and markets improved and the industry was encouraged for the first time by the interested Govemments of the day along with the determined manufacturers and their continuous research, that this industry made headway. By 1963, record sales of in excess of 14 million kilograms were achieved. It was the tenacity of the growers and manufacturers in this industry that caused them to Matters of Public Interest 8 November 1988 2149 continue their research to determine the ideal locations and climate to return a quality yield. With rain and warmth, tobacco will grow; but growth for its own sake is not enough. Leaf of good commercial quality can be grown in only a few areas of Australia, and even then only under a particular umbrella of conditions: sandy, well-drained, low fertUity soils; uniform warmth during the growing period; little wind and no frost; and fairly high humidity with an excellent rainfall or regular summer irrigation. The Mareeba/Dimbulah district of north Queensland is excellent tobacco country. Good crops with choice leaf are grown there, but even this area did not reach potential until the Tinaroo Dam irrigation system was built in 1959. The irregular rains were augmented by the reliable flow of the irrigation channels. During the ensuing 20 years, the initial annual crop value of $500,000 leapt to $ 17m by 1969 and $30m by 1982. During aU of this long history, the Queensland tobacco-farmers continued to experiment untU they found the most productive tobacco-growing regions in the State. Until 1965 the quality, quantity and prices of tobacco in Australia fluctuated widely. At this time, a stabilisation plan was introduced and the Australian Tobacco Board's and the growers' uncertainty was replaced by fair, stable prices. The board represents the entire industry. Its membership includes three manufacturers' representatives, three growers' representatives, a Govemment representative from each of the producer States and a representative from the Commonwealth Govemment, who is the chairman. Queensland, New South Wales and Victoria—the three States where the leaf is grown—each have a State marketing board through which all leaf is marketed. Under the stabilisation plan, a special State committee allocates each grower a quota of so many kilograms. Provided that his crop is of sufficiently high grade, he can be sure of a market for his quota, on the one hand, and a grade reserved price on the other. But his leaf has to match the quality required by the grade schedule. The grower's problem is not as simple as just growing tobacco. In conclusion—the reasons why people start smoking are many and varied; they include peer pressure, parental influence, socio-economic status and where children spend their pocket-money. The decision to smoke or not is complex and it principally appears to be related to interpersonal factors. What is clear is that there is no simple, straight­ forward explanation. It is for that reason that I have taken the time of this Parliament today. I do not believe that we, as individuals are our brothers' keepers; nor does any individual have the right to condemn an industry, or those people dedicated to the support of that industry. In fact, I commend the Minister for Primary Industries, the Honourable Neville Harper, for his recent efforts recommending a new tobacco stabilisation plan to the Federal Govemment at the meeting of the Agricultural Council held in Fremantle in Febmary this year. The Federal Govemment should support the Queensland Minister for Primary Industries, rather than waste time and effort on altemative proposals which will alienate this important primary industry.

Government Financial Corporations Mr INNES (Sherwood—Leader of the Liberal Party) (11.20 a.m.): The Westem Australian Premier, Mr Dowding, declares that WA Inc. is dead, although he maintains that his State is well and tmly alive. Queensland certainly has an economic vehicle that has reached child-bearing age and, from some of the recent activities and according to statements made by the Premier this moming, a certain amount of procreative activity is going on. The reality is that the headlines of the economic newspapers of this nation are saturated with the problems of Govemments deserting private-enterprise principles and dabbling in the market-place. Headlines appear such as, "Cain toughs out VEDC war"— and VEDC stands for Victorian Economic Development Corporation. The losses that have been sustained, together with allegations of bribery of Govemment officials to 2150 8 November 1988 Matters of Public Interest ensure favourable placement of moneys, is such that those headlines are followed by headlines such as, "Private sector to manage new Vic fund". Now there is to be a Victorian Venture Capital Fund to segment and separate that part of Govemment funds that are to be committed towards venture capital. The point is made even in the new declaration that this new capital fund is bigger than private-enterprise sources operating in the same field in Victoria. Allegedly in order to bury WA Inc., yet another new Govemment body is to be formed. The Westem Australian Govemment has set up a commission on accountabiUty to restore credibility to its business practices. However, that commission will not be allowed to probe the Govemment's role in successive rescues of the enterpreneurial merchant bank, Rothwells, which just happens to be a company registered in Queensland and was once a proud and long-term men's wear retail organisation in this State. This Govemment should have been worried in April of this year when the Labor Party's spokesman on Finance welcomed the new Queensland Treasury Corporation BiU and applauded it as a Labor-inspired policy initiative. At that time, the Liberal Party voted against the Bill. It was extremely concerned about the new stmcture, particularly because of the lack of definition of the corporation's tasks and the wide breadth of its powers. In his second-reading speech, the Minister for Finance stated that the legislation— "Empowers the corporation to invest in:— • real property; • deposits with a bank or other person; • in a business; • securities; • development projects; • any partnership or joint venture; and • any other investment." The legislation allows the corporation to give undertakings, covenants, promises, guarantees and indemnities and to enter into financial undertakings of all kinds. The corporation is specifically aUowed to form partnerships, joint ventures or other associations for the purposes of carrying out a financial arrangement. In other words the umbrella covered the widest possible range of financial powers and capacities. These matters were amplified by the Premier. I asked a question about the interaction between this corporation and the Queensland Industry Development Corporation, which had identifiable limits specifically allocated to its funding. Funding was available from the QIDC for the venture capital strand that was argued by the Premier when he was flushed out. The Bill was introduced by the Minister for Finance, Mr Austin, but, because of the vigour of the debate—created by the Liberal Party's opposition to the Bill—the Premier and Treasurer was flushed out and joined in the debate. In the course of the debate the Treasurer made some interesting revelations, such as the one that he repeated this moming, that $244m was lost last year on forex transactions. Apparently, in some sort of battle for laurels for competitive losses, Queensland has improved its loss to one of only $38m. This transforms Queensland's financial rating and capacity into some kind of an Australian first. Queensland has lost less than any other State, but it has stUl lost. The Treasurer gave illustrations of the sort of thing that he had in mind as being the target for the corporation's wide powers. During the debate, he stated— "So the corporation has a broad range of options available to it. It can invest in securities, it can invest in equities and it can invest in property . . . If I could take the honourable member up to the Caloundra Sunland shopping centre, he would see that principally that is provided by a partnership arrangement between a superannuation fund and a number of other investors." Matters of Public Interest 8 November 1988 2151

That was the illustration he gave of one type of investment—supermarkets. Later, he went on to say— "One of the big issues in the world today is venture capital. It is capital that can wait. In terms of every investment opportunity that is around today, the key issue is venture capital. That is what is driving the North American revival. In recent times that country's economy has been driven by an access to venture capital. Surely, this organisation must have that capacity ..." At a time when enthusiastic sociaUst Govemments are moving towards the use of public moneys in these wide areas, when the headlines in the Australian say that the losers of the year are the tax-payers of Westem Australia, when the sorts of wamings that the Liberal Party made in this House in April of this year have become reality, when the chickens are coming home to roost in other States and when the bitter experience of Victorians is that that State has had to segment or insulate the venture capital side, Queensland has an organisation with an amplitude of investment powers and a wooUy- headed investment program—one that is not regulated, defined or committed to paper. This corporation has embarked upon some massive investment strategies. One of the matters raised earlier this year by the Liberal Party was that there is an emergence of funds for quite different types of purposes. This corporation has access to all the Govemment's moneys, yet some of those moneys are superannuation moneys. At the time of the debate on the Queensland Treasury Corporation Bill I made the point that if that is the case, the superannuation functions should be segmented and those funds could properly be looked after by people who are dedicated to the management of superannuation funds. The Queensland Treasury Corporation will deal with the amalgamation of local authority fund-raising and in the future other moneys will be avaUable on the short- term money market or the forex markets for general Govemment purposes. To start with there is a confusion of investment purposes and then there is a confusion of investment intent. As the Premier admitted this moming, this Govemment has established clear guide-Unes for investment which he has promised will be presented to this House in the future. Before the advisory committee on investment is in place, the corporation has made a number of massive investments. One massive investment is in the Kem Corporation, which takes up 14 per cent of that company's capital. This is a reputable Queensland company and people are proud that Queensland companies of its type can get off the ground and compete in the big, wide world. However, it is clear that the company was under pressure in the competitive market at that time. The Premier might say that the Govemment has prevented a take-over, but what has happened to the value of the shares that are held by other private investors? The situation is that through Suncorp and the Queensland Treasury Corporation, the Queensland Govemment now controls 29 per cent of the capital in that company. It is clear that the Govemment takes political matters into account and says that if there is a toss-up between one or the other—as Mr HaU said the other day in an interview, between Queensland or non-Queensland—this Government will go for Queensland. PoUtical considerations intmde into what should be purely an investment situation, and this affects third parties. No private-enterprise company would have been aUowed to take a 29 per cent interest in a company without making a bid on the market for an all-market share. I am not attacking the reputation or the history of the Kem Corporation, but there are confused and mixed motives involved which are not necessarily in the interests of all the share-holders of the Kem Corporation. The other result is that the Government makes very close and warm friends. I have no doubt that Mr Barry Paul feels very warm towards the Queensland Govemment, just as Mr Laurie ConneU felt very warm towards the Westem Australian Govemment. Friendships and senses of warmth should not be aUowed to dictate commercial decisions. To get full integrity in the market and full value for all persons in the market, 2152 8 November 1988 Matters of Pubhc Interest friendships have to be divorced from commercial decisions. To base a decision on friendship is to the advantage of the Queensland Govemment and its political interests but to the disadvantage of share-holders. Queensland has now built up a massive share­ holding in BHP. Before the guide-lines have been finished and before the advisory committee has been established, this corporation has invested $100m in BHP. Liberal Party Election Brochure Mr SHERRIN (Mansfield) (11.30 a.m.): I wish to spend my time addressing a brochure that has been distributed by the Liberal Party through a few shopping centres on the south side of Brisbane. Mr White: We didn't see you at the meeting. You didn't tum up. Mr SHERRIN: I will come to that meeting in a minute. I wish to congratulate the Liberal Party on finding some people on the south side to represent it. During the referendum campaign its representatives on the south side were very thin on the ground. At another time in this place I have drawn the attention of the House to the fact that in the booths in the three Federal electorates on the south side only two Liberal supporters could be found to hand out information on behalf of the conservative side of politics—and that referendum dealt with one of the greatest challenges to conservative values that this nation has seen since Federation. So it is refreshing to see that, in the space of a few months, the Liberal Party was able to dredge up a few more of the same old tired, familiar faces to peddle this propaganda. It is some of the issues raised in this propaganda that I want to address this morning. The member for Redcliffe has alluded to a public meeting that the Liberal Party called to launch its "campaign" for the south side. Some people who attended that meeting told me that the Leader of the Liberal Party devoted the 20 minutes that he spent on the back of the tmck trying to convince the people of the south side of Brisbane that he was no longer a silvertail, that really, even though he came from the Volvo belt, he hoped to inspire some people to be candidates on the south side. I might say that out where I come from the Liberals are a bit of an endangered species. No State Liberal politicians represent seats on the south side of Brisbane; they come from the seats in the westem suburbs. On the south side of Brisbane it is really just a minor political party. It was fascinating that the Leader of the Liberal Party would come all the way over into the heartland of the National Party—Mount Gravatt, Mansfield, Greenslopes and Springwood—to try to convince the citizens of the south side of Brisbane that the Liberal Party is not a party just for the silvertaUs. Unfortunately, he failed. I will now address some of the issues that the Liberal Party raised in its propaganda. One side of the brochure is headed "Local Issues—Have Your Say". It says that the Liberal Party is concemed about aircraft noise, crime in the suburbs, the management of Moreton Bay, tertiary places—I will have more to say about that in the Estimates debate later—and the public hospital system. That is very interesting, is it not? They are all very valid issues about which to be concerned. The Govemment is concemed about those issues and I wUl speak briefly about that concem. However, first of aU, I will have a look at the track record of the Liberal Party on each of the five issues that I have mentioned, because it is a track record of which the party should be grossly ashamed. Under the leadership of "Champagne Charlie", the Leader of the Liberal Party, these five issues are being misrepresented to the electorate of Brisbane at large. The first question with which I will deal asks, "Is noise from the Brisbane airport or air traffic of concem to you?" I refer honourable members to the very interesting expose of the Deputy Leader of the Opposition on the involvement of the Federal Liberal Party in the constmction and design of the Brisbane airport. Let me get this very clear: the decision to site the new mnway for the Brisbane airport was made totally by the Liberal Prime Minister of the day, Fraser. It was his responsibility. In 1979 he decided to constmct the new mnway on its present location and with its present alignment. I make it very clear that when the Federal Liberal Party was in Govemment it made the Matters of Public Interest 8 November 1988 2153

specific decision—it was a political decision to save the seat of a Liberal Party member— to site that mnway in its present position and alignment. Members of the Liberal Party had the gall to Ue to the people of Brisbane, particularly those on the south side, by saying that all of the planes would take off over Moreton Bay. They said that even though at the time they knew full well that that would not happen. These are not my words; these are the words of the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. He has flushed the Liberals out, yet they have the gall to say that they are concemed about aircraft noise. The responsibility has now been sheeted home. What did members of the Liberal Party do when aircraft noise became a problem on the south side of Brisbane? As a State member I waited for some leadership from the Federal Liberals on the issue. Nothing happened. My office was inundated with calls. The Liberals had gone to water; they could not be found anywhere. They knew they had something to hide, so they did not want to be seen at all. At the public meetings that I attended the Liberal members went to water. There were no answers—there was nothing at all. In response to at least 200 phone calls that were received in my office and, as a State member, being fully aware that it was not an area of my responsibility, I circulated a petition complaining about aircraft noise. After it was signed by 2 000 people, I sent that petition to the Commonwealth Minister and the regional director for civU aviation. I must commend the regional director for taking the time and trouble to send his officers to me to explain the matter and to allow me to put forward a particular point of view for changing the air routes. As a result of that, those routes were changed. Now aircraft follow a dog-leg path that takes them away from the populated areas of Mount Gravatt, Mansfield and Eight Mile Plains and through a green belt on the edge of those suburbs. I know that that does not solve the problem in Manly, Cannon Hill, Coorparoo and so on. However, in the short term, in my electorate it has solved the problem of noise from aircraft that follow the south-bound route that takes them over the beacon in the range to Sydney and Melboume. I know it has not solved the problems for many areas of Brisbane, hence my continuing concem. Yet the Liberal Party has the gall to push this propaganda through the shopping centres and to claim that it is concemed. That is the ultimate hypocrisy. I will now tum to the subject of crime in the suburbs. A succession of Liberal State Treasurers never rated this as a significant matter for significant expenditure, as is now being aUuded to in this document, nor did it rate highly in the Liberal Party policies for the 1983 and 1986 State election campaigns. The next issue that the Liberal Party talks about is the management of Moreton Bay. If honourable members look back, they will see that the first Minister for Environment in the Govemment was a Liberal Minister, Mr Bill Hewitt, who held that position for three years. If this is such a buming issue of concern for the members of the Liberal Party, one would think that, when they had a Minister for Environment, it would be No. 1 on the priority list. But was it? No! It is a case of the Liberals saying one thing but, when they had the opportunity when they were in Govemment, doing absolutely nothing. I tum to the issue of tertiary places. This moming, as predicted, the Liberal Party spokesman on Education took all the credit for the long and hard work that the Queensland Govemment has done over many years. I challenge him to produce the documentary evidence showing where the Liberal Party has made representations to the Commonwealth Govemment. I know that it has not. I can produce documents which show that the Queensland Premier and the Queensland Minister for Education of the day made representations through the AustraUan Education CouncU, through the Premier's Conference and through personal representations at Minister-to-Minister level and officer- to-officer level for the last 10 to 12 years, to the CommonweaUh Govemment. Yet the johnny-come-latelies of the Liberal Party have jumped in to try to take credit. That is what we have come to expect from the Liberal Party.

81405—74 2154 8 November 1988 Matters of Public Interest

All honourable members would know that it was in response to the Queensland Govemment's initiative to provide $25m to fund State tertiary places that we were able to lever some of the extra places that we hope to get. We are not certain that we will receive them, because we have not received official confirmation. For the Liberal Party to step in and to take the kudos for that is an ultimate act of political hypocrisy; one, unfortunately, that we have become used to, not only from the Liberal Party but also from the Liberal Party spokesman on Education. The Liberal Party raised concems about the public hospital system. In the period from 1963 to 1983, there were five Liberal Ministers for Health. If Liberal Party members have any deep-seated concems, they should look back on the performance of their own Ministers instead of trying to sheet home the blame, for cheap poUtical gain, to this Govemment. I wam people strongly against filling in the Liberal Party's form and retuming it. All they will have is the dubious distinction of being added to the Liberal Party's mailing- list. I could think of nothing worse than going to the letter-box and receiving more photographs of Angus Innes and more information on the Liberal Party. I strongly urge the people on the south side of Brisbane not to do that. I give my commiserations to the Liberal Party for having a leader with such a low public profile that its supporters have to stand in the hot sun and hand out that literature. Time expired. Collective Cabinet Responsibility Mr WELLS (Murmmba) (11.40 a.m.): It is time Queensland had a completely fresh start. That fresh start can only be provided by the leadership of Wayne Goss. The basic fact is that the cormption which has been uncovered by the Fitzgerald inquiry was growing up, and in fact flourishing, whUe most of the members of the present Govemment, and many members of the Liberal Party, were sitting in the Cabinet room, making themselves party to decisions which did nothing to tum the State away from the paths of cormption. Honourable members wiU be aware of the principle of coUective Cabinet responsibUity. It is a very old principle, and a very sound one. It states that all members of Cabinet are collectively responsible for the decisions made by the Cabinet. If they choose to remain members of Cabinet, they must support Cabinet decisions, even if they privately disagree with them. But although Ministers are bound by the principle of collective Cabinet responsibUity, they are not without some power in the face of a proposal in Cabinet with which they disagree, or to which they have conscientious objection. They can threaten to resign, or actuaUy resign. Importantly, also a group of them can resign, or threaten to resign. So the basic dynamic of Cabinet collective responsibility is this: if a Minister stays in, then he is responsible for all the decisions that are made—he can, however, at any time make it clear that he is not prepared to be part of certain decisions, and indicate that he will resign if those decisions are forced through. Now, it needs to be emphasised that all Ministers know about Cabinet collective responsibility before they go into their first Cabinet. The present Premier knew about it before he went into his first Cabinet meeting. The Liberal Party knew about it when, after every election untU 1983, it re-formed the coalition. It foUows that the Premier, all of his Ministers who were Ministers under the previous Premier's administration, and the Liberals, are all collectively responsible for every single decision of the Bjelke- Petersen administration. The responsibiUty for every rort, every con, every swifty, and every act of shameful neglect is not just Bjelke's but theirs too. The responsibility for the festering sore of cormption which exploded under the Bjelke-Petersen regime rests not just on the frail shoulders of the former Premier, not just on the Queensland police, not just on cormpt officials, but also on the shoulders of those who were too slack, too weak, too insipid, or too far gone down the path to take the necessary action to root it out. The Fitzgerald inquiry could have been established 15 years ago. It should have been established 15 Matters of Public Interest 8 November 1988 2155 years ago. The reason why it was not is that the Cabinet, through those years, took no action that was going to be effective against cormption. And most of the members of those culpable Cabinets are still in this House, masquerading as reformers. It must be of some interest to people outside the House that the former Premier's once most sycophantic acolytes are now the people who are most anxious to distance themselves from the actions and inactions of his Cabinet. It seems like only yesterday that the word of Bjelke might have stood against the world. Now there are none of them who are prepared to stand up in this House and do him reverence. Mr White: Shame! It is a shame, isn't it? It's absolutely disgusting. Mr WELLS: I thank the honourable member for Redcliffe. Not so long ago, the former Premier could do nothing without it seeming like an act of greatness to the gaggle of fawning tories who were perpetually grovelling around his feet. I draw the attention of the honourable member for Redcliffe to the fact that that gaggle of fawning tories included all the people who now sit along the benches with him. Mr LITTLEPROUD: I rise to a point of order. I find those comments about myself offensive and I ask that they be withdrawn. Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I believe that the words are unparliamentary. I ask the honourable member to withdraw them. Mr WELLS: Mr Acting Speaker, could you advise me which words the Minister is seeking to have withdrawn? Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The words that the honourable member mentioned in the last five minutes. Mr WELLS: "Gaggle of fawning tories"; are those the words? Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Yes. Would the honourable member please withdraw them? Mr WELLS: "Gaggle of fawning tories" is unparliamentary? I withdraw the phrase "gaggle of fawning tories" and instead I wiU say "group of sycophantic crawlers" who grovelled at the feet of the former Premier Mr LITTLEPROUD: I rise to a point of order. I find that comment offensive and I ask that it be withdrawn. Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The Minister objects to the words that the honourable member has used and asks that they be withdrawn. Mr WELLS: I withdraw the phrase "group of sycophantic crawlers" and I substitute instead "humble grovellers who are prepared to put themselves in humble obeisance before the feet of Mr LITTLEPROUD: I rise to a point of order. I take exception to the word "grovellers". I find that word offensive and I ask that it be withdrawn. Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I uphold the point of order and I ask the member for Murmmba to withdraw his last words and to use more acceptable language in the Chamber. Mr WELLS: This is getting very difficult. I could go through the whole dictionary Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! It will not be difficult for me to ask the honourable member to resume his seat in a moment. 2156 8 November 1988 Matters of Public Interest

Mr WELLS: I would hate to cause you even that much trouble, Mr Acting Speaker, so I will withdraw those words. Instead I wiU say "people who were sufficiently lacking in pride to prostrate themselves before the former Premier". As I was saying, members of the Cabinet at that time—which included members of the Liberal Party—were all responsible for every action that was taken by the Bjelke- Petersen Govemment. Today, when the Opposition points out that the same gaggle is jointly responsible with Bjelke-Petersen for the growth in cormption which took place under his regime, they squeal Uke stuck pigs. They were there at the time. Every Cabinet decision involved them. AU the legislation of the Bjelke-Petersen era bears their mark. However, honourable members are expected to believe that they had nothing to do with all the cormption that grew up in that era. They do not have an alibi; their fingerprints are everywhere. There are millions of eyewitnesses. They were known to be at the scene of every crime. However, they tell honourable members that they are completely innocent. Some members of the tory coalition have said that, in drawing attention to the principle of collective Cabinet responsibility, members of the Opposition are somehow encroaching on the territory of Commissioner Fitzgerald. They have even said that a statement by the commissioner that there should be no political point-scoring regarding specific items before the Fitzgerald inquiry applies somehow to normal parliamentary life. Commissioner Fitzgerald has his area of responsibility, and we as members of Parliament have ours. He deals with specific allegations of criminal behaviour; we deal with the laws and institutions of the State of Queensland. He never said that the political and parliamentary life of Queensland should come to a standstill. It is a bit weak of the tories to try to protect themselves against charges of political neglect during their period in office by saying that some of the consequences of their neglect are now being* legally investigated. The Opposition must continue to draw attention to the shocking neglect of basic constitutional and political principles such as the principle of coUective responsibility. There were plenty of opportunities when that doctrine could have been applied, when a brake could have been put on what was being done by the Bjelke-Petersen Govemment, but they did not do it. A group of Ministers could have jointly refused to accept a decision of Cabinet. They could have said, "If you go ahead with that particular tender or if you refuse to take some action to investigate what is going on, we will all resign." The members of the Liberal Party—and there were many more of them then—could have said that, and that would have been a very powerfiil instmment. The only time the Liberal Party ever took any decisive action was under the leadership of the one man in that party who has any courage, the honourable member for RedcUffe, Terry White, who very carefully failed to take that action until he knew it would be futile, until he knew he did not have the numbers. For years that honourable member and his colleagues could have accepted an offer from the Labor Party whereby the Liberals could have gone into Govemment by themselves, introduced a sound redistribution and done some cleaning up of the State. However, they did not take the opportunity to do something until they knew they would lose. National Party Ministers of Police come into this Chamber or swear statutory declarations saying, "We were by-passed." However, they did not have to be by-passed. They could have said to the Premier, "If you and your police chief are going to by-pass us, we are not going to cop it any more. We are going to resign." In those days there were men who were not a gaggle of sycophantic cringers. There were people such as the late great Kev Hooper, who did not stay silent and who spoke out about it. There were people such as Wayne Goss, who spoke out about it. Yet honourable members are expected to believe that this Govemment is going to clean up the State. It is not possible. The only way in which the State can be cleaned up is by having a fresh start under the leadership of Wayne Goss. Time expired. Matters of Public Interest 8 November 1988 2157

Social Problems; Government Services Mr GATELY (Curmmbin) (11.51 a.m.): I wish to raise some matters that are of grave concern to every family, not only in this State but also in this nation. It is interesting that the member for Murmmba, Mr Wells, referred to this Parliament not trying to usurp the authority of the Fitzgerald inquiry. I happen to have a certain piece of paper in my possession. One would think that the honourable member gave me a Dorothy Dixer. In an article by Juanita PhiUips in the Courier-Mail of 3 March 1988, at page 8, the following comment appears— "Mr Warburton's failure to cash in on the great political opportunities of the Fitzgerald inquiry is cited as one example." That is exactly what honourable members have been witnessing since Parliament resumed this year. When a new Speaker was appointed, some leniency was allowed in relation to this matter. However, I believe that on every day that I have been in this Chamber the Labor Party has been less than honourable in the manner in which it has tried to usurp the authority of that inquiry. I want to voice my concem about some social problems which can be sheeted home to the Prime Minister of this country and his Cabinet in Canberra. I refer firstly to the Federal Govemment's wanting to give heroin addicts free doses of heroin. What hypocrisy! That Govemment is aiding and abetting criminals. That is what it is doing. It is aiding and abetting the commission of offences that will bring about the degradation of citizens of this nation. In case honourable members do not believe me, I will quote from an article in the Gold Coast Daily News of 8 March 1986. An article headed, "Dmg War Continues" states as follows— "Just over a week ago a 21-year-old Gold Coast man died after injecting heroin into himself His friends say it happened only six months after he was first introduced to the death-dealing dmg, although he had been a marihuana user..." Many Labor members in this Chamber would advocate that the Govemment legaUse the use of marijuana, as the Labor States of Victoria, New South Wales and Western Australia and the Federal Labor Party have advocated. Now the Federal Govemment wants to give doses of heroin to heroin addicts. We are following a track that has been clearly defined as the one that will cause the break-down of moral standards and the very fabric of any nation. Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The conversation on the front bench is becoming a distraction to the Chamber. Mr GATELY: One of the gravest problems with discipUne in both the Korean War and the Vietnam War was caused by the introduction of dmgs. If our Federal Labor colleagues and our Labor colleagues in this House think that dmgs are not a problem or that they are only a problem in some minute areas, I wonder whether they would care to study what is happening in Russia at present. The Federal Government is hell-bent on breaking down standards and seeing the youth of this nation destroyed also that there is no opposition in the future. It has also decided that it will attack the pensioners of the nation by maintaining its continual increase in taxation, its assets test, its means test and the imposition of more taxation on any investment that poor pensioners may have been able to put aside as a nest-egg. The Federal Govemment has made a continual drive to attack those areas and cause continued dismption of the nation. Members of the Federal Govemment might kid themselves that the public are not seeing this, but the pensioners in the electorate of Curmmbin have made it very clear to me that they have reached the stage at which, because of increasing costs and pressure on their pensions and their savings, they are flat out making ends meet. Pensioners are unable to obtain housing at reasonable prices. Recently I asked the Minister for Family Services and Welfare Housing whether he would make an approach 2158 8 November 1988 Matters of Public Interest to the Prime Minister and the Federal Minister for Housing to provide a special one- off grant to ensure that adequate low-cost housing was made available to pensioners who are in dire circumstances. As is usual for the Federal Labor Government, to date it has displayed total ignorance. It will not answer the mail that is sent to it. We have not even received the courtesy of an acknowledgement of correspondence sent to the Federal Govemment. If that is how the Federal Govemment wishes to treat the residents of this nation, particularly those in my electorate, honourable members can rest assured that I wiU be advising the residents of my electorate, particularly those people who have contacted me about issues of this type, that the Federal Govemment is failing even to answer letters, let alone arrange an appointment to discuss the issue with us. I tum now to the comments made this moming in this Chamber by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition on random breath-testing. I have had occasion to speak to the Minister for Police and to the Premier. I asked for special surveillance in the Coolangatta area because of the wanton behaviour of a group of young people down there and others who were not adhering to the principle of caring for other residents. It is sheer hypocrisy for the Deputy Leader of the Opposition to suggest that this State and this Govemment are not doing their job properly on such matters as drink-driving. On the occasion to which I refer, numerous police officers were brought to the area. I myself was asked by a young police officer to pull into the kerb. He was carrying out his job in the proper manner. I was asked whether I would care to blow into the little machine. I said, "Yes, certainly, sir." That night, in that locality, 34 people were arrested for drink-driving and other offences. That proves that the Queensland Govemment is acting in a very responsible way. The Police Department has limited resources. When dealing with those limited resources, one could look further at the cut-back in funds provided to this State from Federal taxation. Every State in this nation is being ripped off by the Federal Govemment because it is not giving back to the States the proper and appropriate amounts of money that it should be returning to the States. WeU might Mr Goss have mn down to Canberra before he deposed Mr Warburton to have a little powwow with Bob and the boys. Talk about collusion and cormption! If a person wants to see it at its best, he should look at what has been offered to Mr Goss to try to win the next election in this State. However, it will not help him; nor wiU it help other members of the Opposition, because many other issues, such as World Heritage listing of rainforests, will be the downfall of Opposition members and the Federal Govemment. I tum now to road-funding in this State. In real terms, over the last three years, Queensland has lost a minimum of 40 per cent of funds for roads. In 1987-88, the Federal Govemment's take in fuel excise was $7,006m. A miserable $ 1,300m of that sum was given back to the States in the form of road assistance. Queensland received $254.8m. The biggest proportion of that came from the bicentennial levy that was imposed. Again the Federal Govemment is failing in its responsibility. The Leader of the Opposition stands up in this Chamber and says what the Queensland Govemment should be doing about safety on roads. I say to him and to his Labor colleagues in this House that they should be making a definite statement and a request to the Prime Minister of AustraUa to give this State, as well as other States, a fair go. New South Wales has the same problem with roads as Queensland has. New South Wales has a road on which a person would not take a Cobb and Co. coach, let alone take his high-powered motor vehicle. Opposition members have the hide and audacity to come into this Chamber and to say what the Queensland Govemment should be doing. On a previous occasion in this House I have called for the Federal Govemment to give Queensland a fair go, to provide funds for road constmction and to enable proper facUities to be put in place so that people can drive on good roads with safety. Opposition members do not want to hear the Federal Government's gaggle about the lack of funds. Opposition members continually bleat that the Queensland Government does not provide services. The only persons responsible for not providing services are the members of the Federal Govemment, who refuse to give this State its rightful retum of the taxes Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2159 that are taken out of this State. Queensland does not receive its rightful amount of money. Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The time allotted for the debate on Matters of Public Interest has now expired. At 12 noon. In accordance with the provisions of the Sessional Order, the House went into Committee of Supply.

SUPPLY

Estimates—Thirteenth and Fourteenth Allotted Days Estimates-in-Chief, 1988-89 Education, Youth and Sport Department of Education Hon. B. G. LITTLEPROUD (Condamine—Minister for Education, Youth and Sport) (12.01 p.m.): I move— "That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the service of the year 1988-89, a sum not exceeding $1,157,644,000, Department of Education—Salaries, Administration Expenses, etc. (Consolidated Revenue)." Including special aUocations, the total 1988-89 consolidated revenue allocation for Education, Youth and Sport of $1,313 bUlion compared with the $1,179 biUion aUocation of comparable components in 1987-88 represents an increase of 11.25 per cent based on the actual full-year costs of operating functions in all relevant departments. Over the same period, total Government allocations from the Consolidated Revenue Fund have increased by 8.77 per cent. The increased allocation to Education, Youth and Sport is thus significantly higher than the overall Govemment increase—an indication of the importance the Govemment places on the young people of Queensland. I am pleased to have the responsibility for a portfolio that includes three such important areas for our young people and for the future of Queensland. Education is cmcial to our preparation for the future, and there are some important developments in education in Queensland that I wish to address. Curriculum Central to the issue of education is the curriculum offered in schools. An amount of $500,000 has been allocated to develop further curriculum frameworks in the areas of teaching and assessment. There can be little doubt that the curriculum offered to children and young people in Queensland schools is one of the highest quality. Indeed, the President of the Queensland Teachers Union recently said that the curriculum in our schools is excellent. The President of the Australian Teachers Federation also commented that the Queensland curriculum is as progressive as curriculums anywhere else in Australia. This is due in no small measure to the many dedicated professionals who teach in our schools, to the parents who actively support their children's teachers and to those officers of the Department of Education who undertake the tasks of curriculum research and development. The quality of the curriculum in schools can also be measured by features such as the principles that guide curriculum development, the priorities accorded to particular aspects of the curriculum and the kinds of programs that are implemented in schools. The principles that guide curriculum development in Queensland provide criteria for making judgments about what young people should leam in schools, at what year 2160 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) levels, the range of learning experiences that should be offered and the kinds of teaching and assessment strategies that should be used. In part, these principles highlight the need for the curriculum to be appropriate to the needs and interests of leamers in schools while, at the same time, seeking to ensure that what is leamt is relevant to the society served by the schools. They also highlight the need for the curriculum to be balanced both in breadth and depth so that chUdren and young people receive a comprehensive, well-rounded education. Moreover, the principles that underlie curriculum development highlight the importance of ensuring continuity in the leaming experiences of our young people. In recent years the department through its P-10—that is, pre-school to Year 10—Curriculum Framework has focused on this continuity which will be supported through the preparation of a series of curriculum, teaching and assessment frameworks, the revision of existing syUabuses and guide-lines and the provision of accompanying curriculum source materials. This work should further enhance the quality of the curriculum in Queensland schools. The second feature inherent in the curriculum is the definition of priorities, that is, those aspects that require particular emphasis. Many of these are of an enduring nature while others reflect the changing circumstances confronting the education system. Five such priorities have been recognised— • development of basic competencies in numeracy and literacy; • development of capacities for critical thinking; • familiarity with technological change; • provision of equal educational opportunity for all; and • enhancement of individual strengths and interests. The program also stresses the importance of keeping these priorities under constant review so that the curriculum offered in Queensland schools continues to be of the highest quality. A third feature of curriculum development is a continuing emphasis on the provision of high-quality programs both during the compulsory years of schooUng and in the post- compulsory years. In recent years, a number of new programs supported by carefully prepared syUabuses and guide-lines as weU as a range of curriculum source materials have been implemented. These have been accompanied by in-service education programs for teachers and the provision of advisory/consultancy services. For example, the department completed a comprehensive set of curriculum materials for the teaching of science in primary schools. These have not only been well received in Queensland but also widely adopted in other States. Similar initiatives involving the areas of religious education, mathematics and social studies are continuing. In the area of post-compulsory education in schools, a range of syllabuses and guide-lines for Years 11 and 12 in subjects such as practical computer methods, information processing and technology, Australian social investigations, tourism studies and small business studies have been developed. Programs such as these are specifically designed to enhance the curriculum in the senior secondary school in Queensland and should ensure that at these levels we have a high quality curriculum that is relevant to the current and future society and economy.

Devolution: A Partnership It is widely believed that the quality of the curriculum and of schooling depends upon a partnership of all those with a stake in education: school staff, students, parents, industry, commerce, tertiary institutions and the wider community. A partnership with the community is at the forefront of the department's current priorities. One of the department's roles, as stated in Meeting the Challenge: Future Directions for Education in Queensland, 12 June 1987, is "to respond to, co-operate with and inform the Queensland community conceming existing and emerging needs in education". Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2161

A priority goal linked to this role is to "develop and maintain effective and efficient mechanisms in order to— (a) respond to the community's educational needs; (b) co-operate with the community in promoting the pursuit of leaming; (c) inform the community on developments in education and on the education system in Queensland; and (d) continually redefine State education aims to meet changing community needs." The Department of Education believes that each parent has a part to play in the development and implementation of education policy. It recognises the value of parents taking an active role in the education of their children. The quality of the relationship between home and school stands out as a vital influence on the attitudes, behaviours and leaming of students. Strategies which serve to strengthen the educative role of parents promise to make teaching more effective and to raise the self-esteem of parents and the morale of teachers.

Valued Roles of Parents and Citizens Associations Parents and citizens associations have long played an essential and valued role in raising funds to assist schools and, in some cases, in employing staff to meet parents and citizens association objectives. Parents and citizens associations promote closer co-operation between the parents of the children attending the schools, other citizens, the teachers at the schools and students. They also give parents an opportunity to leam about the school's policies and programs and to talk with individual teachers. Parents and citizens associations have considerable experience in developing and managing budgets, tuck-shops, special projects, textbook-hiring schemes and other ventures. In many schools the parents and citizens associations or committees of parents have been involved in the planning and implementation of curriculum or school improvement projects. This has included responsibiUty for identifying needs, establishing priorities, preparing budgets and writing submissions. The role of parents and citizens associations will be enhanced in 1989 through devolution of appropriate aspects of decision-making to schools. Principals and teachers will co-operate with parents and citizens associations not just to win support for initiatives but also to seek genuine participation in decision-making processes. New Opportunities in 1989 and Beyond For Parents Under these initiatives, there wiU be a substantial devolution to school level. Increased opportunities for parent participation will be provided through the following initiatives— (a) school development plans; (b) the school grant scheme; (c) the secondary textbook scheme; and (d) the flexible staffing policy. Parents will be able to contribute to the development of the broad aims of their school as schools commence drawing up school development plans, which indicate future priorities and directions. Their participation will influence positively the types of programs to be conducted, the resources to be allocated, the types of experiences offered to students and the mechanisms for evaluating the plans. The school development plans will be the basis upon which schools and their communities make decisions about budgets and the mix and deployment of staff. The new enlarged school grant scheme, with a 50 per cent increase in funding, will present opportunities for parents to help determine priorities for the allocation of moneys provided by the Government as well as those raised by parents and citizens associations. 2162 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

It is envisaged that in each school the priorities estabUshed will be in accord with the school development plan. Many schools already have a secondary textbook hiring scheme in operation and the new arrangements for secondary textbook allowances will facilitate its development or expansion where parents so choose. Parents and schools will still be able to opt for individual cheques paid to parents, if this is their wish. The new flexible staffing policy wUl operate in selected volunteer schools in 1989. The schools will be able to decide on the personnel mix which is appropriate to their particular needs subject to approval by the regional director. As parents increasingly participate in decision-making in local schools, care will be taken to ensure that the input of parents and citizens associations is broadly representative of the views of parents of students currently attending the schools. The proposed new principal Education Act, to be introduced early in 1989, wiU reflect the enhanced role of parents and the wider community in local school decision­ making and in providing advice to the Minister for Education, Youth and Sport. For Teachers These initiatives provide opportunities for teachers to participate more in decisions about school priorities, funding, staffing and relations with the wider community. Close involvement with parents can produce definite benefits for teachers, who are likely to receive much more support from parents who can, from first-hand experience, appreciate the challenges they face. For Principals School principals, whose task it is to provide educational leadership within schools, can do much to forge firm links with parents and the local community. Successful leadership is based upon sensitivity to local opinions and these can be effectively monitored by increased parent participation. Principals' actions do much to determine the climate for participation by parents. Principals are responsible for the general management of schools. They have the understanding and a wealth of experience to guide local communities in theh deliberations. In particular, they have a specific knowledge of govemmental and departmental poUcies which guide present practices. The integrity of school programs will be maintained. Principals will continue to provide the educational leadership necessary for sound decision-making within schools, because they are the professionals within the local education communities, but they will be sensitive to the inputs and values of the local communities. They will work actively towards a shared approach to decision-making, to further improve the quality of education. Departmental Organisation Head Office The effectiveness and efficiency of management has been enhanced by the reorganisation of the head office of the Department of Education into three areas. They are studies, resources, and development and portfolio services. Within the area of "studies", a new division of schools, responsible for integrated studies policy and leadership of schools at all levels from pre-school to Year 12, has replaced the former divisions of pre-school, primary and secondary education. Progress has also been made in establishing a new division of special services to co-ordinate student services, special education services and special programs. Regionalisation and the Inspectorate In order to ensure that regions are of an appropriate size and are adequately staffed to provide a responsive service to schools and the community, the number of regional education offices has in recent years been increased to 12. The most recent changes saw Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2163 the south coast regional office and the Sunshine Coast regional office commence operation from 4 January 1988. This reorganisation of the boundaries enabled changes to improve the service and the geographic cohesion of some country regions. The administrative stmcture of the regional offices also has been reorganised to facilitate liaison with the new division of schools. The location of the inspectorate in the regions will place inspectors in close contact with the schools, allowing them to develop a sound understanding and knowledge of the whole range of provisions being made by schools. School self-evaluation, based on the school development plan, will be monitored and supported by the regionalised inspectorate. The regionaUsed inspectorate will also include a unit for the assessment of performance, which will test the achievement of representative samples of students at various age levels, in various subject areas, on a Statewide basis. It will also ensure that there will be appropriate emphasis on reading, writing and arithmetic in State schools. Information about the quality of performance in curriculum areas, of cultural and sporting provisions, of care programs and of general social development, for example, will be obtained more quickly and more economically than information gathered through standardised testing programs. Such information is qualitatively better, derived as it is from the ongoing programs of schools rather than from extemally imposed devices such as standardised tests which are limited in both the range and validity of their findings. Moreover, it will be of immediate use in making any necessary changes to maintain and enhance the quality of education. Through the new regionalised inspectorate and involvement of the wider community in school activities, the Department of Education will be able to monitor standards and maintain excellence, while maintaining a high level of public accountability. Staffing of Schools The teaching establishment of the Department of Education will be increased by an additional 522 teachers in 1989 as a resuh of the 1988-89 Budget— • to provide for enrolment growth in State schools; • to cater for students with special needs; and • to increase the number of guidance, consultant and specialist teachers. There will be an additional 278 primary school teachers to maintain class sizes at present levels in 1989, in overall terms. Variations, however, may occur at individual schools as principals and staff decide to vary class sizes in order to meet the needs of specific groups of students or to extend programs in particular areas. Part-time Staffing Part-time staffing will be introduced from the commencement of the 1989 school year. The extent of such positions will be limited to 5 per cent of the full-time teaching establishment and will depend upon demand and the abiUty to match requests to the staffing needs of individual schools. Initially, the standard fraction of time worked wiU be half of the fuU-time workload, with preference given to teachers currently employed by the Department of Education. Part-time staffing will achieve savings where a fiiU-time teacher is not required, for example, in teaching specialised subjects in small schools.

Appointment of Graduates Of the 2 300 students expected to graduate from teacher-education courses in December this year, more than 1 800 are expected to seek positions with the department. Most of these applicants are expected to be offered positions by the end of first semester 2164 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

1989. Graduates with qualifications in mathematics, science, Japanese and Chinese will be given priority. The avaUable pool of mathematics and/or science teachers has not been sufficient to meet the department's needs for some years. Such a situation is not peculiar to Queensland, or indeed Australia, but is common in the education systems of aU the westem industrialised nations. Currently, the University of Manchester is engaging in a worldwide study of the problem. Loss rates for teachers for mathematics and science are slightly higher than loss rates for all secondary teachers. A significant factor influencing this loss rate is said to be the availability of altemative positions in industry and commerce. The Brisbane College of Advanced Education, the chief institution for training teachers for mathematics and science, has increased its intakes into mathematics and science courses in recent years and also introduced in 1986 a two-year part-time graduate diploma course to provide additional teachers.

Distance Education The recommendations of the ministerial advisory committee on distance education wiU continue to be implemented in 1988-89. The consolidated budget for distance education in 1988-89 wiU be $ 1.786m, which reflects a commitment to greater co­ ordination of services and to the establishment of regional support networks. The funds will be allocated— • to provide an operational budget for all centres within the School of Distance Education and its support unit; • to allow for replacement vehicles used by staff for personal contact with isolated students and their families; • to purchase computerised desk-top publishing facilities; and • to acquire additional equipment necessary to upgrade and expand the print faciUty within the support unit.

Aboriginal and Islander Education Queensland should improve its position as a leader in Aboriginal and Islander education as a result of the State Budget. $992,000 has been aUocated directly in this area to complement what is being done through education generally. In secondary education, Queensland has the highest percentage in Australia of Aboriginal and Islander students staying on to Year 12. The Australian average is less than 20 per cent. In Queensland it is nearing 40 per cent. Queensland has only 27 per cent of the country's Aboriginal and Islander population, but 56 per cent of the Aboriginal and Islander students in Year 12. State funds, together with Commonwealth Government funds, will be used to provide support in all areas of Aboriginal and Islander education. Priorities for funding allocations to improve educational outcomes for Aboriginal and Islander students will include— (a) extension of services, support and resources to be delivered by the Aboriginal and Islander education branch in all areas of education; (b) increased training, development and support for the growing number of Aboriginal/Islander para-professional counsellors assisting schools and students; (c) maintaining and expanding programs designed to increase subject spread, and achievement in tertiary courses; (d) extending the development of programs and support specifically for the more remote Aboriginal and Islander Community schools; (e) expanding the significant network of Aboriginal/Islander parent management committees across the State, together with the Queensland Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander consultative committee network; Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2165

(f) maintaining and developing the well-established in-service program to sensitise teachers of Aboriginal/Islander students to features of cultural differences in order to enable them to become more effective teachers of these students; and (g) increased support and development for the Aboriginal and Islander resource centres which operate at key locations such as Caims, Townsville, Mount Isa, Rockhampton, Inala and Thursday Island.

Special Education Services Special education services in Queensland have evolved over a considerable period of time. Consequently, we have been able to benefit from observation of overseas experiences, respond to local advocacy and take account of professional knowledge. Special education programs catering for a wide variety of needs are avaUable in all parts of this State and are accessed by students attending both State and non-State schools. The biggest challenge has been in the provision of quality special education programs that are relevant and appropriate to all children with special needs as close to home as possible and in the least restrictive educational environment. The availability and expertise of staff largely determine the quality of special education. In the past few years, children requiring special education have received a high priority for both teacher and teacher-aide staffing and this priority will continue. A high priority is placed on upgrading staff skills through long-term in-service courses and short-term developmental activities. To assist with these activities, the Division of Special Education has estabUshed a curriculum resource centre, a staff development centre, a resource centre for behaviour and adjustment programs, and a network of district resource centres in each education region. Over the past decade, there has been a shift from a segregated to an integrated style of provision for children with a mild disability. This trend towards teaching exceptional children in less segregated environments, particularly in the regular class room, has mirrored international perspectives in service for the disabled. Program effectiveness is facilitated through the encouragement of innovation and flexibility in curriculum design and implementation. Attention is given to the individual needs of students who are principally serviced by individualised educational programs. Consultation with parents in the development of shared educational objectives is important. Program effectiveness has been improved by the development of service networks and the co-ordination of effort. These include, as well as teachers: teacher aides, speech therapists, physiotherapists, occupational therapists, psychologists, parents, community resource persons, school nurses, guidance officers and personnel from divisions of other Govemment departments. The sum of $2.059m will be provided in grants to approved voluntary organisations providing educational services for handicapped children. This represents an increase of 15 per cent on last year's expenditure. Financial assistance is provided to 12 non- Govemment organisations to enhance their special education programs. This assistance is given on a priority basis for programs in early education for the severely handicapped and for children in mainstream settings. Assistance is also given for the development of appropriate support for parents and staff. Financial assistance is also made available to assist handicapped students to gain access to special education programs. More than 35 per cent of special students require special taxi or minibus transport to attend their nearest appropriate special school. Decentralisation of specialised services to the visually handicapped and hearing impaired has reduced the number of children with sensory handicaps who need to live away from home to gain appropriate special education. However, a small number of children require assistance under the private accommodation scheme. This scheme enables these children to gain access to a special education program by living with a host family that is close to an appropriate educational facility. 2166 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Human Relationships Education Human relationships education will be introduced progressively into State secondary schools during school hours in the coming year. The program, for which $200,000 has been aUocated will be supported by additional teachers and a range of audio-visual materials, as well as syllabus documents. Human relationships education aims to assist students to understand better that personal, social and moral growth should go hand in hand with physical and intellectual growth. This implies that human relationships education attempts to establish student understanding of how people relate to one another—the importance of having a positive self-concept. Human sexuality education, which is one aspect of this understanding, is approached in that context. These understandings will require a complementary focus on developing student abilities in communicating, decision-making, problem-solving and valuing family and community life. There will be negotiation between schools and parents on helping students to develop the desired understanding and skills. Before a program is introduced into a school it is to be approved by a committee comprising representatives of parents, teachers, community members and senior pupils. Should parents disapprove they will have the right to withdraw their children from a program.

Technology Queensland State school students will maintain their advantage over other States in computer use with the new-three year, $20m technology program announced in the Budget. Queensland has led the way in the use of technology in education; in giving students important hands-on experience on computers. We already have the highest per capita use of computers at secondary level and we will build on this. The new three- year program will cover many areas of education—$3.1m has been allocated towards business education centres, $500,000 towards access learning systems, $1.4m towards electronic leaming centres and $lm to support the new practical computer methods and information processing and technology courses. It is imperative that our young people leave school with the ability to move straight into a work-force that is becoming increasingly dominated by technology. A working knowledge of computers gives a school- leaver a better chance of getting a job and has obvious advantages for those going on to tertiary education.

Secondary Textbook Allowances The secondary textbook allowance scheme aUocation of $ 13.491m for 1988-89 represents an increase of 8.9 per cent over 1987-88 outlays. In 1989 modified payment procedures for textbook allowances will be implemented to simplify administration of existing textbook hiring schemes and to encourage schools to introduce hiring schemes which wiU limit costs for parents. The successful operation of a hiring scheme requires considerable organisational and managerial expertise. Assistance in the form of information and guidance to a school wishing to set up a scheme, or to expand or streamline an existing system, will be provided by regional management teams comprising the regional directors, senior inspectors, supervisors, inspectors and regional administrative staff. In the case of a new school which wishes to establish a hiring scheme, the school will also receive during the first year an advance payment of the second year's entitlement. This will considerably assist the new school in its opening year, but only limited departmental funds, based on adjustments for enrolment changes, wiU be payable in the second year.

Support for Non-Govemment Schools The Govemment's commitment to support for non-Govemment schools and its support for parental choice in education is unchanged. As well as providing fully for enrolment growth, there will be a 2 per cent real increase each year for the next three years in per capita grants to non-Govemment schools. This forward commitment demonstrates the importance and significance the Govemment places on non-Govemment Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2167

education. The total allocation this year will rise by 9.5 per cent, from $68.4m in 1987- 88 to $74.9m, in part reflecting the need to provide for increased enrolments in these schools. Higher Education Queensland has received a disproportionately low share of funding since the Commonwealth's assumption of the responsibiUty for fully fiinding higher education from 1974. Since then there has been a sustained growth in the Queensland population. This has not occurred in other States and, in fact, many Australians clearly have moved to Queensland. From 1973 to 1987, Queensland's population has grown by 80 per cent more than the national average. Its 15 to 29-year-old population, the traditional catchment group for higher education, has grown by 94 per cent more than the national average. This has not been adequately recognised by successive Federal Govemments. Based on population, we are entitled to an additional $30m this year, which would allow 4 000 more higher-education places. With more youngsters staying on at high school until Year 12, the highest rate in any Australian State, increasing pressure will be placed on our higher education situation. As well as continuing with discussions with the Federal Govemment on this issue the Queensland Govemment has allocated $15m to progressively fund initiatives in higher education over the next three years. Institutions will be required to bid for additional places on a tender basis from funds totaUing $5m in the first year. $6m will also be provided over three years to establish a Queensland education foundation comprising Govemment and industry representatives for the purpose of raising and allocating additional funds for tertiary education on a doUar-for-doUar basis. Decentralised delivery methods for the offering of higher education in areas away from mainstream institutions will also be investigated with the aid of $4m aUocated for the purpose.

Assistance to Youth The State Govemment wiU continue to help youth through an allocation of $5.386m for youth support activities within the Department of Education. Under a Youth and Community Grants Program, $170,000 will be available to support projects providing practical assistance to young people. In addition, supplementary assistance to youth organisations wiU amount to $ 1.55m through programs such as— • training grants, which last year helped 54 organisations to train leaders or potential youth leaders; • subsidies for full-time or part-time administrators and training directors and seminar expenses for 33 organisations last year; • subsidies for youth and community organisations of 20 per cent to a maximum $75,000 towards cost of capital facUities for social, recreational and training programs for young people; • grants towards the cost of staging State, national and intemational meetings in Queensland or for sending State representatives to national meetings interstate; and • a Youth Assistance Scheme, which last year helped 70 organisations. These programs are administered by the Division of Youth, which is also responsible for the Duke of Edinburgh Award Scheme. Assistance is also provided to mral youth through the Rural Community Youth Extension Service. Division of Sport Sport has always played an important role in the lives of Queenslanders. In 1972, the Government established the first Ministry of Sport in Australia and since then has provided approximately $45m to 81 different sports. The 1988-89 allocation for direct assistance to sport will be $5.305m, which is a 5.5 per cent increase over the previous year's allocation. Grants from this sports assistance funding scheme have been used to 2168 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) help Queensland athletes gain selection in the Australian Olympic Team. Queensland swimmers are to the fore in this regard, comprising half of the 1988 Olympic swimming squad. Almost half the budgetary aUocation will be directed to sport at the grassroots level such as local sporting clubs. The funds will be distributed as either subsidies or grants, foUowing application, in a number of important areas including junior coaching, sport playing facilities. State teams travel, staging of national and intemational events. State administration costs, directors and regional directors of coaching, staging State championships in country areas, courses and seminars for officials, regionally based talented sports men and women, and the State's high performance athletes.

Queensland Recreation Council An appropriation of $3.97m has been provided for the Queensland Recreation Council for this financial year. Over the previous three financial years the QRC had received progressively $2.7Im, $2.97m and $3.62m. The council will increase significantly the number of programs directed towards the older adult community, including pre­ retirement leisure education seminars. Older adults are expected to comprise the largest share of Queensland's population by the year 2000 and it is important that the community is aware of the need to plan for the transition. Of course, the councU will continue to be involved in activities with other age groups in centres across Queensland. Anticipated income for the council in 1988-89 from its 13 recreational camping facilities is $ 1.45m. The council mns the largest chain of its type in Australia and in 1987-88 total camp usage was more than 230 000 camper nights. During 1987-88 the councU distributed grants through its 23 area committees, encouraging initiatives in local communities. The council also receives voluntary contributions from local authorities, which in 1988-89 are expected to be $60,000.

Conclusion The Department of Education recognises that the education system must accept the challenge that the future represents. It is continually monitoring changes so that the education provided in the schools is of the highest possible quality, and is future oriented. Nevertheless, the department recognises that the relationship between education, society and the economy is complex and subject to constant change. Schools are certainly expected to produce technicaUy skilled manpower but they are expected to do much more than that. The community demands that schools concem themselves with the total development of students because they expect that schools will tum out young men and women who are good citizens; who are creative, sensitive and sociable; who possess positive and desirable values and attitudes; and who have acceptable notions of parenthood, famUy, religion and society. In the education system, an appropriate emphasis is placed on the basic skills of English literacy, including communication skills such as listening, speaking, reading and writing. The skills of numeracy, including the basic mathematical and computing skiUs, are continuing to be stressed. As well, there are efforts to develop the skills of analysis, inquiry and problem-solving. Attention is also paid to the exercise of judgment in matters of moraUty, ethics and social justice. Effective educational planning must be guided by both personal needs and aspirations and social requirements, but it must be affected also by a realistic assessment of the operations of current and projected labour markets. Such markets, however, are in a continuous state of flux, particularly in terms of employment pattems. The Department of Education believes that in the face of this uncertainty there is real economic merit in a sound general education for all students, particularly in the compulsory phase of schooling. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2169

The Department of Education accepts the challenge of increasing retention and participation rates by developing curriculums that are appropriate to the changing needs of individuals and society. The department is of the opinion that its contribution to economic and social development is best approached by having schools deal with the general rather than the specific, which is best left until occupational choice has been made. Accordingly, it will continue to focus its efforts on providing an excellent education—an educational foundation that encourages flexibility in outlook and aUows the work-force to adapt to changes as they inevitably occur. In closing, I thank the staff of the Department of Education, of the Divisions of Youth and Sport, and of the Queensland Recreation Council as well as my personal staff and members of my parliamentary committee for their dedication and for their assistance since my appointment to the portfoUo in December last year. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Booth): Order! I desire to inform honourable members that, on the Vote proposed, I will allow a full discussion on all of the Minister's departmental Estimates (Consolidated Revenue, Tmst and Special Funds). For the information of honourable members, I point out that the administrative acts of the department are open to debate, but the necessity for legislation and matters involving legislation cannot be discussed in Committee of Supply. Mr BRADDY (Rockhampton) (12.35 p.m.): The education of Queenslanders requires a tme priority from any Government. When looking at the Estimates for the Department of Education, what has to be examined is whether in this financial year the Queensland Govemment has given to the education of Queenslanders the priority that is needed and required. The answer, unfortunately, is that that priority still has not been attained in this State. I welcome the increase in education spending as indicated in the Estimates and the Budget. However, Queensland still gives to education spending the lowest priority of any of the Australian States. That is a matter of great regret not only to the Opposition but also to the people of Queensland. An analysis of the expenditure on education by the Govemment for this financial year shows that Queensland will spend about 22 per cent of its Budget on education funding, including expenditure on TAFE. I might say that the accuracy of that figure has been govemed by the inadequacy of the documents that have been presented. By comparison, an analysis of the Cain Labor Govemment's Budget, which was brought down a short time before the Queensland Budget, shows that in Victoria 26 per cent of the State's funding will be spent on education. No matter what commitment, desire and abUity is exhibited by teachers, the Education Department and students, unless the proper priority is there in the first place, the standard of education must fall short of what is necessary. That shortfall in Queensland can be shown by saying that the difference between what the Queensland Govemment is expending on education and that which the Victoria Govemment is expending—4 per cent—is of the order of $340m. If Queensland had that extra amount of money to spend in one year on education, many of the wonderful ideas relating to the devolution of powers and the involvement of parents and teachers would be able to be reaUsed to a large extent. Many of the wonderful ideas in relation to pre-school, primary, secondary and post-compulsory education would be able to be realised. However, without that proper priority, the Government is tending to kid itself and it is hiding the reality from the people of Queensland. The Labor Party says to the students, the parents and the teachers of Queensland, "We are on your side. We will give the priority in Govemment that the present Govemment has failed to give. We nail our colours to the mast. In our first term in Goverment we will have the objective of expending the national average on education." This Govemment has fallen far short of that. On a previous occasion, the Minister indicated that a proper expenditure would be in the order of 25 per cent of the State Budget. The Queensland Govemment has not reached that figure. Labor indicates that the Estimates on education spending fall far 2170 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) short of what is needed. Labor gives the commitment that, 12 months from now at the next election—or whenever it occurs—it will go to the people and say, "We are on your side. You have had a Govemment in office for many years which has never been on your side, which has tended to hide the tme facts from you in relation to education spending." Without that priority on education and without that commitment to an objective, many of the glossy ideas and ideals will never be reached. It is apparent that, no matter who the Minister is in a National Party Govemment, he can never obtain sufficient funds within a priority system. It is not a question of increasing taxation; it is a question of balancing out the priorities. If the Cain Labor Govemment in Victoria can spend 26 per cent of its Budget on education, why can it not be done in Queensland? Queensland is a growing State. The Queensland Govemment should be spending more per head on education than does Victoria. In fact, it spends substantially less. In relation to the devolution of powers—the Labor Party welcomes the principle of the tme involvement in education of parents and teachers at a local level. The principle is a good one and must be the aim of any sound education system. However, the principle can only work if there is proper funding. It cannot work if the Govemment is trading the involvement of parents and teachers, provided that the money still comes in from the parents and citizens associations to prop up the system. Proper funding is the basis for tme involvement. This year the Government is again erecting a facade. The facade, like many of the buildings at Expo, looks good outside, but it was hastily erected. The facade being erected here is, "We will let you be involved. We will let you plan the staffing and make budget decisions, but we will not provide sufficient funds." The increased amount given in grarts is not sufficient; it falls very far short. Secondly, the Govemment is not adequately training the staff or adequately staffing the schools. If there is to be tme involvement, there needs to be a proper training program both for parents and for teachers. The information that the Opposition has indicates that the Government is not prepared to spend the money to provide adequate training for parents and teachers to become involved. A further indication is that the Govemment is not prepared to provide adequate staffing so that the new local community involvement can be brought about at the working level. Setting an ideal is not sufficient; the Govemment must follow it through. The Opposition criticises the Govemment for its failure to obtain sufficient funding and for its failure to provide sufficient planning and training to bring about those programs. As shadow Minister for Education, I have been fortunate enough to meet and talk with teachers throughout the State. The most constant criticism by teachers of the Queensland Govemment and the Queensland Education Department has been of the poor continuing education of teachers. They regret that they are the lowest paid teachers in Australia; however, they have put this criticism of poor continuing education ahead of even their own low salaries. Parents are equally concerned. They know that their children—the students—wUl not receive as good an education as they should receive if the continuing education or the in-service training of teachers is not adequate to the task. One of the principal concems that I have found is that a need exists for more systematic, ongoing, better co-ordinated professional development for continuing education of teachers. Teachers and parents recognise that continuing education is as much a professional responsibility for teachers as it is for doctors or engineers. That teachers have accepted this responsibility is beyond dispute. With regard to non-award courses the 1985 Coulter/Ingvaarson report noted that— "If the cost of teachers own time is counted as a significant contribution, then it is the most significant single element in the pattem of overall expenditure on inservice education." With regard to award courses, in its report Project 21 the Board of Teacher Education indicated that, in 1986, 14 per cent of the total teaching force had undertaken studies in graduate diplomas, bachelors, masters and doctoral degrees just in that year. Motivating Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2171 such extensive teacher involvement is a recognition of demands made by the following factors— • As a recent Commission for the Future conference report showed, employers do not simply want children who can read, write and calculate. They want school-leavers who are technologically literate, who can think and who can work co-operatively. • Increased retention rates mean that schools must cater for a wider range of students. While these students must have wider curriculum choices, their access to mainstream subjects, such as mathematics and science, is vital both for their future and Queensland's economic future. • Poverty and consequent family disintegration mean that schools must provide pastoral care and other kinds of social support. Given this range of demands being placed on schools, honourable members are entitled to ask where in the Budget or in any associated documents is professional development given the priority it deserves. Even in the Education Department's propaganda statement issued to schools it rates only a six-line paragraph. Of greater importance, however, is the confusion and lack of specific detail provided about professional development and continuing education in the Budget documents. Again the Departmental Services and Programs: A Budget Perspective document mentions proposed P-10 curriculum initiatives in three major curriculum areas in 1989. Where is the money coming from to enable in-service teachers to cope with these initiatives? $500,000 will not go very far on 25 000 teachers, particularly when support materials have to be provided. Can honourable members expect a repetition of the parsimony and industrial disputation which accompanied the implementation of the P- 10 maths initiative? The most important question the Budget papers leave unanswered is: what State revenue wUl be devoted to teacher in-service and continuing education. Why is not the proposed input from State revenue clearly deUneated as a line item in this Budget? Despite this lack of detail and consolidation of various expenditures, there is no denying that considerable development activity is proceeding at the school, regional and system levels. However, a further question arises. How is all this activity being co­ ordinated? While regional co-ordinating stmctures exist in most regions, I understand that a State co-ordinating body as recommended in the Robinson report has still to be established. Not only is co-ordination necessary at a State level to resolve the often conflicting needs and demands of teachers, schools and systems but also, as a recent report on teacher in-service commented— "The need for co-ordination of programs and funding (at school, regional, state and national level) is as pressing as ever." Having outUned teacher commitment and teacher need, criticised the Budget's failure to provide sufficient expenditure details and stressed the urgency of proper co­ ordination, I will outline what I see as some important characteristics of a continuing education program— 1. A clear statement in the Budget Estimates of the total funds aUocated to the program, the sources of such fiinds and the broad areas of proposed expenditure. 2. A collaboratively prepared poUcy statement incorporating both short and long-term objectives. 3. A focus on the school and its community as the centre of development activities. 4. The fostering of better planning, better pacing and better co-ordination of development initiatives by reviving representative stmctures at all levels and incorporating substantial teacher and parent representation in such stmcture. 2172 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

5. The recognition that school-focused development activity will work only if supported by trained administrative leadership, together with sufficient consultants, material and time to properly implement school development plans, including any additional curriculum initiatives. 6. Far closer co-operation and co-ordination of effort with both the Commonwealth and tertiary institutions than currently exists. Another matter of concem that I wish to raise today in this Chamber is the incentive transfer system for teachers. A newsletter distributed recently to teachers in one Education Department region contained some very interesting statistics conceming the regional distributions of teachers in their first and second years of service. Whereas the percentage of these teachers in the more favourably located regions varied from 7 per cent, to 13 per cent, in the more remote regions the percentage range was 19 per cent to 27 per cent. Given that 27 per cent was an average for one particular region, it was safe to assume that in some schools the figure would be higher. A subsequent check of selected schools revealed that the figure can be as high as 44 per cent. At the outset it is important to commend these young teachers for continuing service, whether they teach in small towns in the State's north west or south west, or teach in schools on the peninsula and the gulf with large proportions of indigenous students. Since, as a condition of initial employment, they must agree to serve anywhere in the State, these teachers bear the bmnt of this Govemment's refusal to introduce a transfer system based on various incentives. They are probably the most exploited group of teachers in the entire teaching service. The well-documented history of the proposal for an incentive transfer scheme makes very interesting reading. The highlights are as follows. Early in 1975, on the initiative of the then Minister for Education, a joint Queensland Teachers Union/Education Department committee produced a document entitled A Report on Transfers to remote schools. After considering the report, the new Education Minister, Mr Val Bird, established a joint working group to give further consideration to the incentives recommended in the original report. The working group report was transmitted to the Minister on 29 September 1978. As this document reveals, the working group had developed a set of criteria by which the remoteness of various centres could be established and points for each centre allocated accordingly. The main incentives proposed were— • a salary-loading calculated according to the time served in a remote centre; • quality low-rent accommodation; • additional leave entitlements, including a differential rate of long-service leave accmal; and • relocation in a preferred centre after country service. No better rationale for such a scheme exists than that which the then assistant director-general and chairman of the working group, Mr G. F. Berkeley, offered in letter of transmission to the Minister. He said— "It is with long term educational benefits in mind such as increased staffing stability, and a better mix of teaching maturity in remote schools that the committee recommends the adoption of its proposals." Minister Bird accepted the report and publicly endorsed it. As the Courier-Mail reported at the time, he incurted the wrath of the Premier, Mr Joh Bjelke-Petersen, for his temerity. Cabinet subsequently rejected the proposal. Twelve months later, the select committee of inquiry into education in Queensland chaired by the current Premier opposed the concept of a salary loading but recommended such incentives as quality accommodation, better travel allowances, better in-service support and differential long- service leave accmal. Despite a further campaign on the issue in 1984, which introduced the concept of a voluntary transfer scheme and suggested such additional incentives as travel to home centre payments, no further progress was made. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2173

This Govemment stands condemned for its 10 years of procrastination and refusal to act on most of the recommendations in three major reports which its Education Ministers commissioned. The existing system is inequitable. Again, teachers seeking promotional transfers are well aware that any salary increase involved will be rapidly eroded by extra cost of living, despite the small locality allowance. As Minister for Education in a Labor Govemment, I will reconstitute a joint working party similar to that which produced the 1978 proposal. This group will be given a specified period to update that proposal. In this document the members of this group will be asked to recommend any variations to the original incentives; give priority to the list of proposed incentives; and submit a costing for each incentive. Labor believes in giving people throughout Queensland the best possible teacher service. That can be done in Queensland only with a proper incentive transfer system for teachers. That is an issue that has been avoided by the Queensland Govemment and one that will be taken up by Labor in Govemment. I repeat that a great priority in Queensland education is the teaching of foreign languages in primary schools. Labor will implement a program of training and retraining teachers so that they are qualified to immediately introduce such a system into Queensland primary schools. Scholarships will be offered to existing teachers to enable them to be retrained and rapidly put into schools for that program to be implemented. As to tertiary entrance—I reiterate my claim that the current system is not sufficiently equitable. Parents and students are concemed. A tertiary entrance review commissioned by the Queensland Government has indicated that altematives exist. The altemative must be a system whereby students are judged objectively on their merits and not as part of a group. Labor will retain a school-based assessment system, but it will be governed by a further requirement which would judge the individual as an individual and not as part of a group. Labor welcomes the increase in the number of higher education places. Two years ago the Labor Party suggested that the Queensland Government should provide some funds for that purpose. Opposition members were laughed at by the Govemment at the time. Two years later, the Government agrees with the Opposition. In those two years, a number of students have gone without tertiary education. Labor has a real commitment to education right through the spectmm, from pre­ school to tertiary. Members of the Opposition reiterate that commitment. They believe that that priority will be achieved only under a Labor Govemment. Sitting suspended from 12.56 to 2.30 p.m. Mr LINGARD (Fassifem) (2.30 p.m.): Honourable members have just heard the typical cry of the ALP Opposition—a cry to the public for votes; the cry, "We are on your side." But what about the cry of the people when the ALP was in power? Before 1954, for approximately 30 years, not a high school was built; yet Opposition members cry to the people, "We are on your side." The ALP Federal Government has not given Queensland enough funds for an additional 3 000 tertiary places. Only today did honourable members see the Federal Govemment coming forward and taking credit for providing Queensland with an additional 4 000 places. Really, the Federal Govemment is providing only 3 000 places. Queensland will have to provide $ 15m over a period of three years to provide another 3 000 tertiary places. When the Federal Government under Whitlam threw money around like water, what a shemozzle that was! Of course, Whitlam went broke. But still members of the ALP Opposition cry to the public, "We are on your side. We will support you." The catchcry of the ALP and the unions has always been the amount of money provided by the Queensland Government compared with that provided by the other States. Continually a comparison is made between the capital costs of buildings in Queensland and the capital costs of buildings in other States. However, never is a comparison made with what is needed to constmct buildings in Queensland, Queensland's better climate 2174 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) and the better planning conditions that exist in this State. A comparison is always made between capital costs in Queensland and those in Victoria and New South Wales. Honourable members know full well that in Victoria more substantial buildings need to be built because of the climate and the planning conditions in that State; but never is that statement made to the public. Whenever new schemes such as this scheme of regionalisation are implemented, there is a continual cry that more in-service training is required throughout the State. For approximately 20 years Queensland teachers have Uved with regionalisation. There is no great need for a major in-service training program. The result of too much in- service training is that Queensland schoolchildren are left with supply teachers while their class teachers are doing in-service training. A certain amount of in-service training is required, but not to the extent that we hear from the ALP Opposition whenever any new scheme is implemented or considered. Continually we hear about the incentive transfer scheme and claims that the gulf schools and westem schools are not staffed. They are staffed, and there is no trouble in attracting staff to those schools. The problem is retaining teachers at those particular schools. Money is not the complete answer. Obviously we should be providing better conditions for teachers so that they are happy to stay in those areas for two or three years and take their families with them. That is the sort of priority that must be implemented in the incentive transfer scheme—not just a great whack of money— otherwise those teachers will not be prepared to stay for long periods in those special outback schools. It is my pleasure to take part in this debate on the Estimates for the Education, Youth and Sport portfolio. I compliment the Minister, who has come through a period when initially his portfolio was under a lot of fire. The Minister has certainly taken the great controversy out of the portfolio, to the stage at which this Govemment is ready to implement two education Bills. I do not envisage any problems with or opposition to that legislation. Education is obviously a very difficult portfolio. Teachers and the department are continually requesting changes and reforms within the Education Department. However, there is a feeling that the public wants stabUity; that it does not want to see the education system continually undergoing change. Obviously, the public will always criticise. But as a Govemment we must be careful not to overreact. Stability must be provided within the education system. Human incompetence will always exist, whether it be amongst teachers. Education Department officials or politicians who continually overreact. We must ensure a very good and stable education system without continuaUy trying to implement every possible program that comes from America and other overseas countries. Govemment members have decided to speak on particular sections of the education system. I intend to discuss the planning and improvements in management in the Education Department, curriculum developments, special needs such as distance education and Aboriginal and Islander education, special-education services and special-needs groups in the secondary-education sphere. The most significant point that was made by the Minister in the presentation of his Estimates is that $1.1 billion has been provided by this Govemment for salaries, administration expenses, etc. A total of $1.3 billion has been provided in the Budget for Education together with Youth and Sport. AUhough it will not be admitted by the ALP, that figure represents an 11 per cent increase in full-year costs and an 8 per cent increase in ConsoUdated Revenue Fund allocations. Surely that is something for which the ALP could compliment the Government; but once again the Opposition spokesman has said nothing about such a significant increase. The most important factor is that the promises that were made by the Premier, the Minister and this new Govemment have been honoured. Not only does the Budget mention teacher resources and the increase in teacher numbers, but it also refers to a new philosophy within the Education Department. There is an emphasis on the curriculum and a very significant emphasis on the devolution of Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2175 responsibility to teachers, parents and the community, which is something that all of those groups have continually asked for. In 1989 there will be many opportunities for people to take up positions in both administration and management. At the beginning of this year many graduates were seeking employment. Because the colleges of advanced education—which are not linked with the Education Department—are providing many teachers who do not have a definite job to go to at the end of their three years' training, a difficulty is being created. The Education Department wUl have to pick up those graduates. The public believes that there must be something wrong with our education system if it cannot absorb those new teachers. The Education Department wiU always face that difficulty. In 1989, of the 2 300 students who wiU be graduating, this Govemment has made a commitment to pick up 1 800 during the first semester. It must be remembered that some of those remaining 500 students would not have the necessary qualifications and would not be prepared to go to all areas of Queensland. Nevertheless, this Government has made a commitment to pick up 1 800 of those 2 300 graduates. Another significant factor relates to Aboriginal education, which I wiU mention later. In complimenting the Minister and his department, I should mention that in June 1987 three papers, which have been referred to as Meeting the Challenge, were published by the Education Department. Those papers incorporated statements of the department's overall purpose, roles and goals and outline developments that are proposed for schools, the department's head office and regional offices. One of the most significant things that are happening in Queensland is the implementation of a Statewide policy to move towards regionalisation. Those of us who taught and were administrators under the old centralised scheme realise how difficult it was to have any liaison with the central office; to have any liaison with those people who were providing our staff; to have any liaison with people who could solve our problems. It was only natural that with a centralised system operating throughout Queensland, extreme difficulties would occur. At the start of the 1970s a regionalisation scheme was commenced, which aUowed a devolution of responsibility to the regions whereby it was the administrator's role to liaise with his inspector and his regional director within a region. This scheme has certainly been implemented, and implemented well, throughout Queensland. Obviously, advice can be obtained and teaching staff, as administrators, can talk about staffing movements with their own local office. The initial organisation of regionalisation was very difficult. It was something that New South Wales, Victoria and Tasmania had no part of However, they are very different States. Nevertheless, Queensland went out and embarked on regionalisation. The most important aspect, and the most important aspect that I could see—and I was part of it—was the regionalisation of sport. The member for Southport will talk about this later. Initially, Brisbane-based associations looked after a particular sport and organised particular sports, such as Australian Rules. Now, because of regionalisation, special sports people are attached to each region, and each of the sports being taught is developed within its region, no matter whether it is the north-west region, the Mount Isa region or the far-north region. These regional offices are organising sport themselves. When intrastate carnivals are held between those zones, a very, very efficient system of interregional sport can be administered. Students now have every possibiUty, firstly, of playing very organised sport in the zones in their area, and, secondly, of participating in intrastate sport and, following that, if they are good enough, of participating in interstate sport and going on to Australian representation. More and more we are seeing and hearing about Australian representatives in Rugby League in the under-16 and under-17 teams. We talk about that, but the Education Department must be compUmented for the way in which it has now participated in regionalisation, separated sport into different categories and organised it very well in each of those regions. The youth of Queensland are certainly benefiting from it. The biggest difficulty is Mr R. J. Gibbs: What does the Govemment do with them once they get out of the schools? Very little. 2176 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Mr LINGARD: The statement does not make sense, but that does not upset me. The only difficulty with students playing intrastate sport is the very high cost of taking the students to and from north-west Queensland and far-north Queensland. However, it must be admitted that the Education Department has even tackled that problem. Sponsorship will now be accepted within the school sports system. Those people who do not appreciate that should think of what the old centralised system was like. Now a move has been made towards the regionalised system. In addition to the department's trying to make devolution upon regions a great concept, it is reorganising the head office. In presenting his Estimates, the Minister said that the head office will be broken up into three distinct areas: one of studies, one of resources, and one of development and portfolio services. As well as that, there will be a new division of schools and a vertical organisation of the curriculum. None of us will claim that it is the only system that will succeed. In fact, I remember that when I was president of the principals association, after I went to South Australia and saw its vertical organisation, I argued very vehemently that the horizontal organisation of curriculum should continue. However, Queensland has now moved into the vertical system, which contains a new division of schools. This will establish a curriculum from pre-school to Year 12 rather than a system which merely organises pre-school, primary school and secondary school. Mr R. J. Gibbs: You had to go to a Labor State to find out how to do it. Mr LINGARD: It was a shocking system. The honourable member should have seen the writing all over the walls of the schools—this free liberal movement. There was writing all over the walls and the chairs. What a great State! The same thing as happened in Labor's prison system in Victoria and New South Wales occurred—there is absolutely no discipline. That is a typical Labor system. Labor said, "We will support you. We wiU help you. We will do exactly what you want. We will get all the votes that we want and then after you have voted for us—if you do—we will con you completely." I tum now to regional administration. The Education Department has now moved into its two new regional offices, one at Nambour on the Sunshine Coast, the other at Southport, making a total of 12 regions throughout the State. It is within those regions that new management skills will be necessary, because each of those regions will have a senior inspector—or he might be called an assistant regional director—supervisors of studies in aU of the areas, such as early childhood, senior primary, junior secondary, senior secondary, and supervisors of special services. Because of the way in which sport has developed during the last 10 years, improve­ ments will be made because of the implementation of such programs in each of those regions. Specific people will be in charge of specific areas and it will be their responsibility to ensure that the system works, compared with a centraUsed system, under which it is hoped that things will work out in the regions but where no-one is directly in charge of those things. A new system wiU also be implemented within the inspectorate. Once again, this is a system that is open to criticism. It wiU be interesting to see in five or six years whether this system is working. After aU, there have always been inspectors of primary schools and secondary schools. This system now provides for a single inspectorate whereby inspectors will cover multiple and various areas. I have some doubts, and many people in the Education Department would have some doubts, about this system. However, it is a new system. Hopefully, in the same way as the curriculum services have worked, with new incentives and new spirit this, too, will work. One very positive thing is the appointment of an inspector who, after people have been appraised, will go round and talk to those people and discuss with them personally exactly where they might be failing in the system. There is nothing more degrading for a teacher or administrator, when he applies for a promotion, to receive what he considers to be a very bad report—even though it is not a bad report—and on a rank order to Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2177 be possibly the last of those who are applying for promotion. It is very degrading for a person to receive a report like that. It is fmstrating if he is not able to speak personally with someone and ask exactly where he might be going wrong in his particular job. With this type of inspectorate it wUl be possible for a person to say, "Tell me honestly where things are wrong. Tell me honestly where I can improve." Hopefully, within the system, this will happen. One of the most necessary things is the appointment of an inspector of schools who will go round inspecting all teachers. I believe that the pressure applied by the unions, which stopped inspectors from going into all of the class rooms to inspect every teacher, has been bad for Queensland's education system. The idea of teachers being allowed to work and teach at exactly the pace they desire and being able to do what they want to do without any direct supervision from inspectors is completely wrong. Teachers have to be responsible to the system and to the people who are paying taxes for teachers' salaries. Similarly, 1 believe that stronger control should be given to principals. By virtue of this new devolution, perhaps greater control wiU be available. However, some teachers are spoiling the system by tuming up a mere five or 10 minutes before the commencement of the day, by leaving school very early and by thumbing their nose at the system. Although it might be okay to say that a principal should have stronger control, because of the rapid movement of principals through the system, it is easy for a teacher to sit back and do very Uttle work, even though such a teacher may have sufficient ability to pass any compulsory test that might be set by an inspector. It would be debatable whether a teacher who sits back is working to maximum capability and providing a good education service to the children of Queensland. I certainly believe that it is necessary to control the quality of teaching performance by ensuring that all teachers participate in extra-curricular activities. Teachers should participate in supervision at lunch-time and undertake extra-curricular activities such as chess, drama and theatre. Not every teacher has to supervise sport but, unfortunately, the education system in Queensland has reached the stage at which some teachers see other teachers who are not undertaking extra-curricular activities, and they end up believing that those activities do not have to be done. It is my belief that extra-curricular work in the State education system is failing when compared with the private school system. On the matter of discipline—the Minister should ensure that principals have the ability to say to students who do not behave, especially those students over 15 years of age, "You cannot attend the school any more. It is not that the teachers do not want to educate you, but you are certainly affecting the progress of many other students at this school because of your lack of discipline." Discipline is the basic difference between private schools and State schools. Private schools have a system of self-discipline based on the power of principals to say to students, "Look, there is a long waiting-list here. We don't want you any more. Away you go." Private school principals know that State schools must provide education for a child who has been expelled from a private school. Because of the compulsory requirement for all students to attend school until they reach the age of 15 years, the State school principal does not have a simUar ability. A method must be provided so that children behave when they are at school and, if they do not, the principal can say, "If you do not behave, then do not stay here any longer." I compliment the Minister on curriculum development, especially on the P-10 framework. For a long time it has seemed ridiculous to me that, although someone organised a curriculum for pre-school and someone else organised a curriculum for secondary school, there was no continuation of curriculum development. To my mind, it was common sense that a person should be in charge of organising and controlling a curriculum from P—that is, from pre-school—to Year 10 before students go on to Year 11 studies. The human relationships education course is obviously starting to work well. Quite honestiy, I must say that it is not the system that I personally would have implemented. I say that because I was the principal at Toowong in the early 1970s when sex-education courses, as they were termed in those days, were conducted after school hours. I certainly 2178 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) believe that human relationships education courses could have been implemented much more quickly in Queensland schools by providing a compulsory course that was introduced immediately, instead of the long, drawn-out process that wiU have to be engaged in at this stage until reliable teachers can be found. I am certainly in favour of human relationships courses, but I am worried that the program will not be introduced quickly enough and that its introduction will stretch over a long period. I must also compliment the Minister on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander education. Six years ago, people would only have had to go through Saibai Island, Boigu Island and Yorke Island to see conditions which, although not horrific, were very detrimental to the education of the Islanders. Now that the Education Department has picked up the tab for the education system that operates in those islands and for secondary school students to go to Bamaga Time expired. Mr R. J. GIBBS (Wolston) (2.50 p.m.): I welcome the opportunity to be able to speak in the Estimates debate this aftemoon. Although I will not direct my remarks towards the education system, I will speak about Mr McPhie: Talk about something else instead. Mr R. J. GIBBS: When I look over at the honourable member, it is obvious to me that his brain-power capacity is so minimal that he must have suffered very badly in the education system. He really should stick to re-fighting the Battle of Britain, as he so often does. Mr Hayward: In the bar. Mr R. J. GIBBS: In the bar, yes; "Squadron Leader Glass"! I will direct some comments to the Queensland Govemment's funding for sport and later address some comments to a matter that concems me greatly. The member who preceded me mentioned briefly the very proud record that this Govemment supposedly has in relation to sport. I do not think the Govemment's record is a proud one at all, and I suggest to the honourable member for Fassifem that, if he really wants to find out what young sports people in this State think of the Queensland Government's funding for sport, he could begin by talking to Queensland's latest Olympic swimming champion, Duncan Armstrong, or people such as Laurie Lawrence. One would only have to refer to the budgetary papers to realise the diabolically low priority given by the Queensland Govemment to sport. For example, the New South Wales Govemment allocated $86m for sport last financial year; in Victoria, the amount aUocated was $43m; and in Queensland, the princely sum of $9m was allocated for sport in the latest Budget. The level of funding allocated to Sport is absolutely disastrous. The honourable member who immediately preceded me in this debate mentioned the success of Rugby League at school level and at progressive stages beyond school level. Although I agree with the honourable member's comments, I do not believe that Rugby League is an appropriate example to illustrate a success story in sport at either the school level or later levels. The fact is that in so many ways, Rugby League is self- supporting. It provides great support for the juniors through the club organisations. Although Queensland Govemment funds are provided to the clubs at junior level, the amounts are minimal. Some weeks ago I received a letter from the Minister, which I cited at a recent State conference. If my memory serves me correctly, the letter was sent to all honourable members outlining the Queensland Govemment's contribution to special allowances that had been provided for sporting clubs since 1972. It works out that this Govemment gives less than $2m per year to clubs throughout Queensland as subsidies for junior coaching, improvements to sporting facilities, etc. Today I wish to concentrate my major remarks on an issue that will cause a great deal of debate in the coming months. I am aware that I wiU not get too many Brownie points, for at this stage, although I will not criticise it, I certainly question what I consider Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2179 to be Brisbane's abortive attempt to host the 1996 Olympic Games. This bid is something that will be very much affected by this Minister's department. I have an extract from the actual Olympic Charter of 1984 issued by the Intemational Olympic Committee. Many people in the community are not aware that mle 4 of the Olympic Charter states— "Application to hold the Olympic Games shall be made by the official authority of the city concemed with the approval of the National Olympic Committee (NOC) which must guarantee that the Games shaU be organised to the satisfaction of and in accordance with the requirements of the IOC. The NOC and the city chosen shall be"— and these are the important words— "jointly and severally responsible for all commitments entered into and shall assume complete financial responsibility for the organisation of the Olympic Games." There has only ever been one time in the history of the Games when that mle was deleted. It was deliberately deleted when the Olympic Games were held in Los Angeles, because the stmcture and organisation of the Games at Los Angeles, as the Minister may be aware, were unique. Coca-Cola acted as the major sponsor and other companies joined in with major sponsorships, with the result that the Los Angeles Olympic Games were totally financed by private enterprise. With its population and sporting venues, Los Angeles was able to minimise expenditure because it utilised existing facilities. The facilities were updated at a minimal cost to tax-payers and anybody else because the updating was sponsored by private enterprise. Brisbane does not have that capacity. Recently the newspapers quoted people on the National Olympic Committee who came to Brisbane to study the facilities at the QE II stadium. They stated quite definitely that the QE II stadium is not a suitable venue for track and field events. It either would be unsuitable or would require massive expenditure on upgrading. I came across several letters relating to Brisbane's bid for the 1992 Olympic Games. One states— "Irrespective of the method of financing, there are several concems about the concept you have proposed:". I am aware that the original concept was the brain-child of the former Labor city council administration. I say quite bluntly that I do not believe their figures were accurate and on a number of occasions that has been shown to be correct. Neither do I believe that the bid put up by Lord Mayor Sallyanne Atkinson for the 1992 Olympic Games was a properly costed program, and many critics will confirm that fact. This letter goes on the list the concems as follows— "(a) holding costs, deterioration, etc.; (b) the impact of release of a large number of houses immediately after the Games (13,000 competitors—perhaps 2,000 homes);". These homes would suddenly come onto the market-place in Brisbane and God knows what that would do for real estate values. Certainly there would be no guarantee that the Government could unload those 2 000 homes to recoup costs. The letter continues— "(c) the probable need to discount to ensure quick sale and capital recovery; (d) the possibility that the nature of developments could be conducive to low socio-economic occupancy; (e) cost of community (dining, recreation) facilities which might have no use after the Games." That letter is signed by none other than Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen in his capacity as Premier. What could Brisbane expect if it were to go ahead with its bid for the 1996 Olympic Games and it it were successful? According to the bid for the 1992 Games—and it is 2180 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) very hard to look ahead five or six years when making an Olympic bid—one of the areas that is absolutely impossible to predict relates to the amount of money that would be recovered from broadcasting rights. That is the major pitfall for an Olympic Games bid. The figures provided for the last bid indicated that there would be 12 000 athletes or team officials housed in one village, up to 8 000 media representatives, 30 000 expected overseas visitors and 120 000 Australian visitors. Based on those figures, the Brisbane City Council's prediction was that resource requirements for the 1992 Olympic Games, when compared with the 1982 Commonwealth Games, would be increased by a factor of four or five. The simple fact is that, although the Commonwealth Games in Brisbane were a success as a sporting spectacle—and no-one denies that fact—they cost the rate-payer of Brisbane $24m, if my memory serves me correctly; so in 1982 a $24m shortfall was bome by the rate-payers of Brisbane for the Commonwealth Games. I would be the first to concede that those games were a great success and I would also concede the outstanding success of Expo, but the people of Brisbane cannot allow those two successes to go to their heads and believe that Brisbane could host an event such as the Olympic Games. No capital city the size of Brisbane has ever held an Olympic Games. It is relevant to compare Brisbane's population and facilities with those of Seoul or Los Angeles. Brisbane does not stack up in terms of being able to financially support that sort of a bid. I have come across some information that I believe I should put before the Committee because, as I said, it should be well known that no other city of a comparable size to Brisbane has ever attempted to host the summer Olympics. In fact, the organiser of the Commonwealth Games, Dan Whitehead, consistently wamed against possible financial loss when he pointed out that Los Angeles, with 10 times Brisbane's population, made a profit of only $250m. On a comparative basis, it is hard to get Brisbane's bid to stack up. In the preparation for its bid for the 1992 Olympics, the Brisbane City CouncU engaged the services of David D. H. Graham and Co. Pty Ltd. That firm said— "That it should be possible to stage the Olympic Games on at least a break­ even basis, although it would require very substantial borrowings and risks of proportions greater than the council might care to undertake in its own right." The original proposal by Sallyanne Atkinson estimated revenue of $1.2 billion from the sale of television rights. However, when the experts got their teeth into the figures, the best estimate that they could arrive at was revenue from the sale of television rights at between $400m and $700m. I have already said that experts in the field have recognised that it is getting harder and harder to make predictions for four years down the track. Although the televising of these sporting spectacles has been a very, very big success in the past, the pattern that is now emerging indicates that the future success wiU not be as high as it has been. If $700m was to be the figure for the sale of television rights, the profit for Brisbane would have been $80m. However, if the bottom line of $400m is taken, the city of Brisbane would incur a loss of somewhere in the vicinity of $6m, which is a damned lot of money. It might not sound like a lot of money but it is a lot of money for Brisbane rate-payers and Govemments to have to pick up. I believe that the loss would be far, far worse than that. By mid-1985 a gentleman by the name of Wilf Barker, who was Rupert Murdoch's spokesperson on media activities, expressed the concems that I have just laid before the Committee. He went so far as to tell the then Town Clerk, Tony Philbrick, to amend the estimated receipt from the sale of television rights to $600m. However, when the council mounted its last abortive bid, which cost the tax-payers of this city $20m, it took no notice of that advice and kept adding hundreds of millions of dollars to the estimated retum on the sale of television rights. An overaU loss of $6m in that area of the estimated retum on the sale of television rights would, when applied across the Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2181 board over the whole staging of an Olympics in this city, on today's costing stack up to a deficit in excess of $50m. I believe that a very, very hard look needs to be taken at the possibUity of Brisbane's staging the Olympics. I have already mentioned the State's budgetary allocation to sport, but Premier Ahem mshes to be seen on television and to have his photo in the newspaper beside Sallyanne Atkinson trying to boost his own popularity by being carried along on her coat-tails—or should I say her petticoat. The Premier is simply trying to gain popularity. However, he has made a commitment to spend $20m of tax-payers' money to support a bid for the Olympic Games to be held here in 1996. That $20m could be spent far more productively by being put towards helping sportsmen, sportswomen and children involved in sport rather than by wasting it on what I consider it to be an abortive bid. The simple fact is that, because it will be the one hundredth year of celebration of the modem Olympics, Greece will get the 1996 Olympic Games. I have already made the prediction that four years later, that is, in the year 2000, the Olympic Games will go to China. This country has Buckley's chance of getting the Olympic Games. The Olympic bid is simply a very, very cheap exercise by the Queensland Govemment—it is one of the most clever little shonks that I have ever seen used in politics—and "Silly Anne" Atkinson, who is now known as "Salary Anne" Atkinson. This effort to deceive the public of Queensland will continue until next year's State election. The Govemment will try to mn it through and extract the last little drop of blood out of it in the fiiU knowledge that it is a waste of $20m of tax-payers' money. I will now point out what a lack of business expertise was involved in Brisbane's last bid for the Olympics and how it was absolutely out of control. Brisbane told the Intemational Olympic Committee that it would subsidise the cost of air travel for all Olympic teams up to a level of $20m, which was against a projected cost of $33m for transporting the expected 15 000 competitors and officials. That was an enormous offer to make. Out of a total budget of $33m to transport intemational teams to Brisbane, who was going to pick up $20m? The tax-payers of Brisbane were going to pay for the cost of that transport. However, the Lord Mayor even went one better. That subsidy was later added to by other subsidies for the transport of horses and equipment needed for rowing, canoeing and yachting totalling an additional $12m. As it started to appear that the last abortive bid would not succeed, those items, together with the last-minute announcements in Lausanne that Brisbane would match other cities by offering free accommodation for athletes and officials in a yet to be buUt Olympic village, were all to be funded out of the projected revenue for Brisbane. It did not require much intelligence to see that the situation was out of control. The fact was that subsidies had become a substitute for aU other serious thinking on the subject. At this stage, we have not even touched on the projected cost that would be involved in building a decent size Olympic viUage. It will have to be a totally new complex. Before the Govemment involves itself any fiirther in any bid for the Olympic Games in Brisbane, it has a responsibility to come to the tax-payers of Queensland and say, "There it is. There is the program properly laid out. It has been properly costed and it will not cost the tax-payers of this city one penny." In conclusion—I had a clipping, which I cannot find, which showed that, contrary to reports, business houses, hotels and restaurants in Los Angeles showed massive losses from the Olympic Games held in that city. I believe that that pattem is aheady emerging from Seoul. It is a costly exercise and one which a city the size of Brisbane has to approach with great caution. Mr SHERRIN (Mansfield) (3.10 p.m.): It is a great pleasure to rise in support of the Minister in the Estimates debate and also to support those senior officers, the Director-General, Ian Matheson, and his assistant directors-general, John Tainton, Ken Robertson, Dick Warry, and his special adviser on higher education, Dr Peter Botsman. 2182 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

It is a great pleasure, as a former employee of the Education Department, to have the opportunity to speak in the Estimates debate. In my former career role I had the privilege, whilst working in the Minister's office, of helping members of ParUament prepare their notes for the Estimates debate. It is nice to be on the other side of that activity in this Chamber. The member for Archerfield will notice that I said "notes", not the briefs that are supplied by the Trades and Labor Council for Opposition members. Our members are provided with briefing notes. They have the capabilities and the intellectual fibre and calibre to be able to weave those notes together into rigorous and well-considered documents; not like the mindless monkeys on the Opposition side of the Chamber who read prepared briefs. This is a pleasure because it is the first opportunity to debate the Estimates of the new portfolio of Education, Youth and Sport now that TAFE has been removed from the Education portfolio. I am firmly of the belief that one of the key means by which we can improve the quality of life for all our citizens, not only in this State, but in the nation as a whole, is through the avenue of improvements to our education system. This aftemoon, I have elected to address the issue of tertiary education in Queensland. Other Govemment members will be addressing other particular highlights of the Queen- land education system. Mr Davis interjected. Mr SHERRIN: No, each person to his particular strength. There is such a depth of talent on the Government benches that it is overflowing and we have had great trouble in trimming it down. The member for Cooroora will be participating in this debate. I am sure that he will provide a tremendous insight into the particular section that he has elected to speak to from his own great depth of knowledge and expertise in that particular field. Mr Beard: There is no need to be sarcastic. That was uncalled for. Mr SHERRIN: There is no doubt that Australian tertiary education is experiencing a time of great change. It is amazing how the hollow vessels make the most noise. The member for Mount Isa should continue reading his brief In the last 12 months, we have witnessed the Federal Govemment's issue of a Green Paper on higher education. After comment, that has been consolidated into a White Paper on higher education, thereby laying down the direction of Australian higher education for the year to come. In the last week of sitting, I expressed my qualified support for the Federal Govemment's initiative in that area. I believe that there is much credit to flow to the Federal Govemment for that initiative. I will not play politics on it. The Federal Govemment should receive some commendation for making changes in an area that had become ossified over many years. I did not believe that I would see the day when the Australian higher-education sector would allow the significant changes that have been flagged to occur in this nation over the next 12 months. Some credit has to be given to the Federal Government for that, and also to the State Govemments, which have the constitutional head of power for the delivery of educational services. I have spoken at great length on the mismatch and the imbalance of fiinding and responsibilities that underlie our constitution as it is, where the States have accmed the major responsibility for the delivery of services to the people; but the Commonwealth, by almost an accident of fate following World War II and the redistribution of personal taxation powers, has received the lion's share of the funding. Today, the States have the constitutional head of power, but under section 96 grants the Commonwealth totally funds higher education in the State. Be that as it may, it is obviously a partnership, and one that has worked well. Great credit must be given to our Minister for the negotiations that he has undertaken at a personal level, and certainly to the Premier for raising the issue at the Premiers Conference. He is not the first Premier to raise that issue. Sir Joh raised it on a number of occasions, particularly the imbalance of funding for higher education in this State. The issue has Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2183 also been raised at officer level. I know that Dr Botsman and other officers of the BAE, including Mr Pope, have been negotiating with the Federal Govemment on the issue of reorganisation of higher education in this State and the redress of the imbalance of places. I wish to pick one particular point out of the Federal Govemment's White Paper which touches on the issue of diversity. It is an important issue in a State such as Queensland. All honourable members know that the White Paper really grouted the hot house of Canberra, where many of the public servants have come from States such as Victoria. For example, one can drive from Melboume to almost any part of Victoria in two and a half hours. The preservation of the need for diversity in any amalgamation Mr Davis: That's a wide statement. You know it's not tme. Mr SHERRIN: The honourable member should wait a minute. He would not know. The preservation of the need for diversity in any reorganisation is vital. The White Paper makes four points. It says that our higher-education system needs to reflect this diversity. I raise it in this debate because in any reorganisation of the system, from Queensland's point of view, this needs to be kept right at the top of the agenda. The White Paper says that our institutions have differing strengths and characteristics and that the positive aspects of these differences should be maintained. Should any amalgamations be forthcoming, it is essential that the positive strengths of the small institutions—and I am thinking of the Queensland Agricultural College, the Queensland Conservatorium of Music and the Gold Coast CAE—be maintained. There is no doubt that the Queensland Agricultural College in particular is a world leader in the area of agricultural science, particularly in the practice of agricultural science, not necessarily in the theoretical aspect. I know that negotiations are under way between the QAC and the University of Queensland. I believe it is vital that the leadership and entrepreneurial spirit that the QAC has displayed in seeking markets in south-east Asia be protected. It must not become just another offshoot of the University of Queensland. Obviously all honourable members would agree that the Queensland Conservatorium of Music is a magnificent institution of world standard in many of its aspects. If it were to amalgamate, let us say, with the University of Queensland, it is vital that the actual practice and expression of the arts as it displays them be protected and consolidated. The Gold Coast College of Advanced Education is obviously ideally situated to focus on tourism and hospitality and also on hotel management. I believe that that diversity and those strengths and characteristics must be protected. The White Paper goes on to say that individual students have a wide range of aspirations and needs for which the system must provide. Institutions should adapt their offerings to the needs of particular student groups. One group of students that must continue to be catered for in Queensland's higher-education system, come what may with the reorganisation, is that comprising the extemal students. Queensland's higher-education institutions have a tremendous record, nationally and intemationally, in the delivery of studies by extemal means, that is, by off-campus delivery mechanisms. It concems me that under the proposals only one centre of distance education will accme to each State. Yet Queensland has at least three campuses that I can name straight off the top of my head—Darling Downs, the University of Queensland and Capricomia—which do an outstanding job in the delivery of courses extemally. For example, Capricomia has half its student force undertaking studies by extemal means. A tremendous wealth of expertise has been built up in this State. Dr Lindsay Barker at DDIAE is an outstanding entrepreneur. He is not content with marketing his courses within Australia; he is taking the lead and marketing them throughout south-east Asia. Mr McPhie: He's up there at the moment. 2184 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Mr SHERRIN: I know that he is in south-east Asia at the moment. I believe he is going to China soon. Dr Barker is marketing his courses. I believe that that effort should not be stifled by a need to consolidate certain institutions. There are significant differences in educational requirements throughout particular States and regions. Institutions should be sensitive to local as weU as broader national needs. Which brings me to the point that, should amalgamations occur, it is vital that in the goveming of those institutions, should those campuses become subcampuses of larger institutions, some mechanism should be put in place to allow for local communities to have an input and a say in the mnning of those institutions. I note the four guide-lines that the Federal Minister has laid down. I believe that they need to be extended to allow for local community input into those colleges, institutions or campuses, should the need arise. Finally, the White Paper goes on to make the point that the level of centraUsed control over day-to-day issues in teaching, research and management of institutions must be minimised. I believe that one of the great positive aspects of higher education as it has occurred in Queensland with the wide range of institutions—the universities, then the second wave of universities and then the coUeges of advanced education—is a great diversity in educational institutions. It is quite possible to go from the University of Queensland, through James Cook to Griffith and see a wide range of student types and course offerings. It is the same with the colleges. AUhough I can understand the Commonwealth's rationale for amal­ gamation, I believe it is essential that, should that happen, it be prevented from stifling the particular differences and nuances that each institution has built up to serve not only its local community but also its particular student type. I now want to draw the attention of honourable members to three particular aspects of higher education in Queensland that I believe make it unique. The first is retention rates in Queensland. I seek leave to have incorporated in Hansard a table detailing retention rates of secondary school students to Year 12 for the States and Territories of Australia for the period 1982 to 1987. Leave granted. Retention Rates of Secondary School Students to Year 12, States and Territories of Australia, 1982 to 1987

States & Territories Year Australia NSW VIC QLD SA WA TAS NT ACT

1982 33.7 34.3 42.1 41.0 37.4 21.9 18.2 72.5 36.3 1983 37.5 38.8 47.2 47.6 40.4 24.7 20.6 72.2 40.6 1984 41.4 43.3 53.1 50.1 45.5 27.6 24.4 79.8 45.0 1985 41.7 45.4 55.1 51.2 47.5 28.7 30.1 77.1 46.4 1986 44.4 46.8 57.5 54.8 50.3 30.3 34.1 77.7 48.7

1987 —Government 44.5 44.0 56.3 53.4 49.2 30.2 43.1 86.1 46.8 —Non-gover­ 63.0 72.2 79.5 88.2 70.8 44.4 28.7 66.4 70.4 nment —Total 47.1 52.5 62.5 60.2 54.4 33.0 40.7 79.9 53.1

Mr Hamill: We were nice to you that time; we let it through. Mr SHERRIN: I greatly appreciate that. I wiU explain the table to the member for Ipswich later. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2185

It is very interesting to note that Queensland has already achieved the national retention rates for secondary school students to Year 12. There has been an increase from 36.3 per cent in 1982 to 53.1 per cent in 1987. If honourable members pemse the table after its incorporation they will note that Queensland has significantly led the other States of Australia. I understand that the forward predictions for our retention rates to Year 12 continue to show the burgeoning growth in retention rates right through to Year 12. I will digress from my coverage of higher education to make a point in relation to secondary schools. I believe that the range of curriculum offerings that our schools are able to provide to our students is a great credit to higher education in this State. Queensland took the lead very early in the 1970s in providing what I would call a smorgasbord of course offerings to students, so that no matter what the particular aspirations of the students were after Year 12, no matter what the particular academic and intellectual calibre of the students was as they entered the upper secondary school, our schools were able to put in place a range of subject offerings that catered for the particular needs and aspirations of students at a much earlier stage than in many other States. I believe that that is the underlying reason why the retention rate in secondary schools in Queensland has been significantly higher than that in other States. That reflects great credit on the Government and on the officers who prepared Queensland schools during that period of significant growth of the secondary-school system. The Commonwealth Government has already indicated that it has the objective of achieving by the early nineties a 65 per cent retention rate to Year 12. Queensland has almost reached that level. I think that Queensland is about 3 percentage points short of it. Of course, this achievement of very high retention rates by the other States and by Queensland is placing increasing pressure on the Commonwealth Govemment to provide additional higher-education places. On many occasions I have spoken at length in this Chamber about the Commonwealth's need to redress that imbalance. I will refer to that matter shortly. Queensland has a successful record in providing employment for its graduates. Obviously it is no good for the Govemment to continue to turn out graduates if there are not any jobs available for them. I ask leave to have incorporated in Hansard a table that outlines the percentage of graduates in 1986 who entered employment in the nation in 1987. Leave granted. Percentage of 1986 Graduates Entering Employment in 1987

Working Working Not Studying Full-time Part-time Working Overseas (^) (b) W (d) CAE Graduates Australia 4.2 73.6 5.0 5.3 4.4 5.2 2.2 Queensland 4.6 75.9 2.0 3.3 6.5 5.6 1.6 University Graduates Australia 25.0 55.7 3.3 2.8 3.9 4.2 5.1 Queensland 21.6 61.8 2.6 2.2 3.8 2.6 5.3 PhD's Australia 0.9 66.8 1.7 2.0 1.3 1.9 25.3 Queensland 1.6 65.3 1.6 2.4 1.6 0.8 26.6

Notes: (a) Not seeking other work (c) Seeking work (b) Seeking full-time work (d) Unavailable for work Mr SHERRIN: I ask honourable members to study the table. In a typical year, approximately 5 000 higher-education students graduate from university and 6 00() graduate from the existing colleges of advanced education. Last year, an employment

81405—75 2186 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) survey was carried out of those persons who graduated in 1986. The figures are summarised in the table for which I was granted leave to incorporate in Hansard. The results are very interesting. On the basis of a 52 per cent response rate from graduates who were questioned and who graduated from CAEs, the proportion of Queensland graduates in fuU-time employment is higher than the national average. Graduates from Queensland CAEs stand a much greater chance of gaining employment than graduates from CAEs in other States. For example, 73.6 per cent of graduates Australiawide were in fuU-time work, whereas 75.9 per cent of graduates from Queensland CAEs were in fiiU-time employment. That is a very gratifying result.

In a similar vein, 55.7 per cent of university graduates throughout Australia were in fuU-time work in the year immediately following graduation. That compares with 61.8 per cent of Queensland university graduates who obtained full-time work. I might add that the balance were not unemployed; a large proportion of them were either working part-time; a significant percentage—1 in 20—were overseas; and 25 per cent of university graduates were engaged in fiirther study. The position in Queensland is that if a person undertakes some form of undergraduate study and he subsequently graduates, he stands a very good chance of obtaining employment. The University of Queensland indicated that in September 1986 the employment rate had fallen from 2.3 per cent for its graduates to less than 0.1 per cent. Obviously, if a young person is looking at keeping himself off the dole queue, one way to do that is to graduate from a Queensland institution of higher leaming. The other issue that I wish to address is the shortfall in tertiary funding. During the last 12 hours honourable members have heard members of the Liberal Party taking great credit for having achieved an increase in tertiary funding. As I said in a speech in this Chamber this morning, it is nothing more than the Liberal Party belatedly jumping onto the bandwagon. I wish to make two points. Firstly, during the period for which the Liberals in Canberra were responsible for education funding, Queensland's higher- education participation rates at university level fell. At the start of Commonwealth funding in 1973 to the period when Malcolm Fraser, the Liberal, came to power, tertiary funding fell from the highest in Australia to the lowest. I seek leave to have incorporated in Hansard a graph that shows the variation between Queensland's higher education participation rates and those for Australia for the period 1974 to 1987. Leave granted. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2187

1.4 Variatioo Between Queensland's Hi^er Educadon 1.3 Partidpation Rates and those for Australia, 1974-1987

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ai J L _L I 1974 IS7S 1t7l ISn 197> 1979 19M 19«1 19(2 19S3 1984 1985 1988 1987 1988 1989 YEAR Mr SHERRIN: If members observe the graph, they will see that the greatest disparity, when Queensland had the lowest participation rate, was at the beginning of the Fraser Liberal Government. So how the members of the Liberal Party in this Chamber can say that they had an involvement in redressing that imbalance, I do not know. Their statements are absolutely incorrect. As I said this morning, from 1974 right through to 1988 the Queensland Government has made representations to redress that imbalance. The Liberals—the johnny-come-latelies on the scene—realised that it was an issue earUer this year and jumped on the bandwagon after the Queensland Govemment had done all the hard work. The real reason why Queensland appears to be receiving extra funds from the Commonwealth Govemment to redress that imbalance over the next three years is that the Queensland Government has stepped in and provided $25m of State funds. It was that lever, the $25m, that has been used to extract the additional funds from the Commonwealth Government. It had absolutely nothing to do with the Liberal Party. Members of the Liberal Party stand condemned for their johnny-come-lately attitude of jumping on the bandwagon and trying to take credit for negotiations that had been under way between the State Govemment and the Federal Govemment. The Liberals had absolutely nothing to do with the issue at all. In the minute remaining, I wish to address very briefly one ongoing change in Queensland's higher-education system. I refer to the negotiations that are under way between TAFE, the universities and the colleges for further articulation of TAFE courses. That is an issue on which I have spoken on many occasions in this Chamber. These negotiations need to be encouraged. I am very pleased that, at long last, during this great time of change, many of the higher-education institutions have agreed to provide credit for courses of study at the associate diploma level in TAFE. If a person completes a two-year course at associate diploma level, many of Queensland's universities and colleges will provide a one-year credit towards a three-year undergraduate degree. That is of tremendous importance to Queensland students. Time expired. 2188 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Mr SCHUNTNER (Mount Coot-tha) (3.30 p.m.): I wish to ensure that my contri­ bution to the debate on the Estimates for the Education, Youth and Sport portfolio is not a continuous stream of criticism of the Govemment with regard to the Education Estimates. I wish to recognise progress where it is occurring and give credit where it is due. I am pleased to see several senior Education Department officials present in the lobby, including Mr Matheson, Mr Warry and Mr CordweU. I would like them to convey to all Education Department officials and others throughout the education service my appreciation of the dedication and competent work that is done by Education Department officials and teachers. It would be naive to think that, of the 25 000-odd people within the Education Department, there are not a few who are not completely pulling their weight. Fortunately, those people are very few and far between. The State of Queensland owes a great debt to the dedicated teachers and senior officials of the Education Department, whether they are at head office or in regional offices. I place particular emphasis on the regional offices, because a couple of weeks ago this Assembly witnessed a disgraceful outburst from a Minister of the Crown when, under parUamentary privilege, he attacked a very competent, long-serving, dedicated official of the Education Department. I totally deplore that Minister's actions. InitiaUy I wish to highlight some aspects of the Estimates that are praiseworthy. The grants to parents and citizens associations have increased, although it is difficult at this stage to determine the extent of that increase. In his reply—or as soon as possible thereafter— I would like the Minister to clarify exactly what is being provided to schools. At this stage parents and citizens associations are not clear as to the specific grants that have been amalgamated into the single grant that has been referred to by the Govemment. Some clarification of that aspect is highly desirable. I tum now to a reference that is made in the Departmental Services and Programs: A Budget Perspective to the implementation of a teacher transfer incentive scheme. Mr Braddy was highly critical of the Govemment's failure to implement a teacher transfer incentive scheme. Mr Lingard stated that Queensland did not need such a scheme. I point out to Mr Lingard that there seems to be a great discrepancy between what this Govemment announced recently that it is doing in Health and what it apparently is not doing in Education in terms of providing some incentive to the professionals—be they doctors or teachers—to serve in remote areas. On page 10 under the heading "Services" is a reference to "items of particular note in the 1988-89 Budget". The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Booth): Order! There is far too much audible conversation in the Chamber. Mr SCHUNTNER: Amongst several points on page 10 of that booklet is the "implementation of a teacher transfer incentive scheme". Does that mean that at some stage the Govemment thought that that was a good idea but did not follow it through? It is not included in other parts of the Budget papers. Did the Govemment forget to omit it from that section so that it is now flagged as a kind of signal that perhaps in the next Budget—just before the next election is due—a teacher transfer incentive scheme will be implemented? For some time the Liberal Party has had such a scheme as part of its platform. I urge the Govemment to implement that scheme. However, I point out that it is extremely contradictory to include that item in one part of the Budget papers but omit reference to it in other parts. Reference has been made in the Budget papers to a significant increase in library grants, which wiU only restore library funding to something like the level at which it was approximately one year ago. Last year, there was a huge outcry against the massive cuts in library fiinding. Although it does nothing more than restore that balance, I give credit to the Govemment for restoring some of the library grants. However, I point out Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2189 that there is a long way to go before this Govemment will adequately meet library- funding requirements. I tum now to the co-operative programs involving TAFE. Too little reference is made to the degree of co-operation that is increasingly occurring between high schools and TAFE colleges. Some people seem to believe that new institutions are necessary to create an overlap between high schools and TAFE colleges. It is quite wrong for people to claim that no changes are occurring in our schools to take account of the broader range of student involvement in secondary education. No doubt several honourable members would be aware that Senior certificates include references to board subjects, board-registered school subjects and TAFE subjects. I applaud the reference in the Budget papers to that co-operation between high schools and TAFE colleges, which is welcome. I am pleased that progress has been made in the field of human relationships education. I also wish to comment on Islander education. Three or four years ago I visited schools in the Torres Strait region. At that time a start had been made on overcoming the decades of neglect that had occurred in Islander education. I am pleased that that progress is continuing, although I recognise that much of it has taken place because of Commonwealth funding, which is mentioned in the Budget papers. Mr Scott: What about Aboriginal education as such? Mr SCHUNTNER: I doubt if enough is being done about Aboriginal education. There are many aspects of education that I will not have time to mention during my speech. I refer specifically to Islander education in the Torres Strait area of the honourable member's electorate. The State Budget refers also to distance education. I seek clarification from the Minister about the reference in the Budget papers to the amalgamation of correspondence schools. At present there are pre-school, primary, secondary, special and technical correspondence schools. We are all aware that the technical area has been moved to the responsibility of the Department of Employment, Vocational Education and Training. I would appreciate some clarification as to whether that reference to the amalgamation of correspondence schools takes in all correspondence schools or whether technical correspondence has been moved into some other area. Reference was also made to electronic leaming centres. I am pleased to see that the Budget provides for their further development. A few days ago I visited the Ithaca TAFE college, where it was obvious that that particular facility is very well used. I am pleased to see those aspects further developed. In a debate such as this there is very little time to make much reference to that part of the Budget papers dealing with sport. I express my satisfaction that the Govemment has made an ongoing commitment to sport. However, I really wonder whether a 5.5 per cent increase, as mentioned by the Minister in the presentation of his Estimates, will do very much by way of progress because it is obvious that such an increase would not keep pace with inflation. I want to now deal with the overall funding of education. Earlier in this debate Mr Braddy made many comments about the low priority that this Govemment gives to the funding of education. I thought it was significant that soon after the Budget was brought down this Government found it necessary to place advertisements in the newspapers indicating that schools were a top priority—perhaps it was meant to imply the top priority—with this Govemment and, of course, its now infamous vision of excellence. The statement and the rhetoric about schools being a top priority are not matched by the priority given to them in the funding as set out within the Budget. In fact, if various elements that are presently the responsibility of the Education Department are excluded, a tme comparison can be made. For instance, if TAFE colleges and senior colleges and some other areas are excluded in order to gain a tme comparison of the funding of education, it will be found that the share of the Budget allocated to education over the previous three years has moved from 20.7 per cent to 19.2 per cent to 19.3 2190 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) per cent. That does not show an improvement in the priority being given to education. It is nowhere near the level that it was two years ago. I would venture to say that it is at or about the lowest level of priority that has been given to it in the last decade. It is completely misleading and deceptive for this Govemment to advertise to the community of Queensland that it places a very high priority on the funding of education. Reference was made in the Budget Speech to the extra 522 teachers who will be provided. Page 33 of the document titled Departmental Services and Programs: A Budget Perspective states— "An additional 522 teachers will be employed in 1988-89 to cater for growth within the education system, to cater for students with specials needs and to increase the number of guidance, advisory and specialist teachers." The point I make is that the 522 teachers does nothing about overcoming the severe problem caused by the previous Budget. All it does is cater for the three areas that are mentioned in that sentence to which I have just referred. If this Govemment genuinely had a commitment to education it would ensure that at least the basic resources were restored to the level applying two years ago. Even 10 years ago the level was significantly higher than it is now. Schools are stmggling to meet the basic needs. It is disgraceful that, year after year, parents and citizens associations have to worry about the provision of money for mower fuel and basic school needs such as paper. I know of schools that are employing their own teachers. A school may not have a specialist music-teacher, so from its own meagre resources it has to pay for the employment of such a teacher. What could be a greater indictment on a Govemment Mr Davis: What schools are they? Name the schools. Mr SCHUNTNER: I could name more than one, but I will not. They are very close to the honourable member's electorate. I cannot think of a greater indictment on a Govemment than the situation of a parents and citizens association that feels a need to go out and employ the most basic requirement in a school, that is, a teacher to put in front of a class. Mr Scott: You said you were going to say something kind about the Govemment's education program. Mr SCHUNTNER: I did say a number of kind things. Mr Lingard referred to his time as president of the Queensland State High Schools Principals Association. I want to read some extracts from a letter that that association wrote earlier this year to the Minister for Education. This group is not given to extravagant statements. The foUowing comment appeared in that letter to the Minister— "We feel it is significant to draw to your attention that schools had not been coping before the budget cuts were imposed with many teacher aides and admin­ istrative assistants having to work unpaid overtime to ensure that the workload was completed. This year, with schools experiencing a twenty-five percent cutback in aide time, an even more untenable situation exists. Added to this, the Board of Secondary School Studies requires work programs to be upgraded and re-written. No suggestion as to how the additional typing and printing is to be handled has been forthcoming let alone some assistance to teachers who have to find extra time to review and re­ write their programs." Mr Scott: What is the date of that letter? Mr SCHUNTNER: It was written earUer this year. It refers to the previous year's Budget. The letter refers to the increased retention rate in high schools and states— "... there has been no adjustment to the staffing scale to cope with our expanding senior school numbers and no additional resources needed in practical classes. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2191

The money at school level has had to be raised 'unofficially' through charges levied on students wanting to do these subjects. Additional to this, the cutbacks this year have significantly reduced the number of consultants available to schools to help teachers with the new subjects and large classes they find themselves trying to cope with. The maintenance of resources is a major problem—replacement ribbons for electronic typewriters; large numbers of computers that are breaking down with no funds to repair them; all grants including library have been held at 1987 or reduced while Works Department cutbacks are creating major problems where only serious plumbing, electrical and glass breakages are attended to. These are just some of the problems principals and staff are trying to cope with in our schools and in many ways, teachers are having to subsidise out of their own pocket, requirements of our employer..." A primary school p. and c. circulated the known impacts of the last Budget, which will not be changed very much by the most recent Budget. In its newsletter, it listed the following known impacts— "• Teacher Aide Hours—cut from 80 to 46 hours per week. • Leam to Swim Classes—cut from 20 to 10 hours. • Four year trained primary teachers are being encouraged to transfer to secondary schools to meet expected teacher requirements in that area. • The regional specialist teacher advising on the education of gifted and talented students has been directed to retum to classroom duties." I understand that a change may have occurred recently, and I acknowledge that regional specialist teachers may have retumed to class-room duties. The newsletter continues— "• Advisory teachers assisting schools with the introduction of the revised maths syllabus have been directed to retum to classroom duties. • 50% of head office staff working on the development of new cirricula have been returned to classroom teaching. • Similar cuts have been made to staff in library and media resource units. • Library grants have been cut 25%." I referred to that matter earlier and also to the restoration of library grants that occurred recently. The newsletter goes on to state— "• No new graduate teachers are to be offered jobs from the start of the 1988 teaching year." I now wish to refer to a comment made by the Minister earUer, in which he expressed his hope and expectation that graduate teachers would be employed by the end of the first semester next year. I sincerely hope that a repetition of the situation that occurred last year will not recur because, at that time, a smaU number of teachers graduated in specialised fields, such as teaching the Japanese language. By the time the Department of Education obtained authority from this Govemment to employ teachers of the Japanese language, all of those teachers had been employed outside the State Department of Education with the result that, in one instance I know of, a high school had to employ a French/music teacher to teach Japanese up to Year 12. I hope that similar situations never occur again. In the short time that remains, I must mention briefly the fiinding of tertiary places. The member for Mansfield, Mr Sherrin, referred to this matter earlier. I am thankful to the parents of Queensland for the magnificent support they gave to the campaign initiated by the Liberal Party in January this year. At a press conference, the Liberal Party announced the estabUshment of that campaign. In the foUowing month, the National Party thought that it would jump on the bandwagon and do something about tertiary 2192 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) places because it could see that the issue would bite deeply. I wish to quote from a letter from the Minister Assisting the Prime Minister. It states— "Each year since 1974 Queensland has received more than 20 per cent of additional places. This compares favourably with Queensland's 16 per cent population share and has lifted Queensland's share of higher education places from 12 per cent in 1974 to 15 per cent." The increase referred to in that letter was an increase to 15 per cent in 1988, but that is still not good enough. However, that statement takes the wind right out of the sails of people such as the honourable member for Mansfield, Mr Sherrin. The honourable member spoke nonsense when he referred to what happened in Canberra some years ago. He tried very hard to stick the knife into the Federal Liberal Party. Mr Sherrin is obsessed with the Liberal Party. Time expired. Mr SLACK (Bumett) (3.50 p.m.): I am pleased to support the Minister's presentation of the Estimates. As the Minister would be aware, a need exists to provide an adequate education system for Queensland's young people to enable them to be sufficiently equipped to take their places in society. The provision of adequate education is more important today than it ever was before. There is a great deal of talk about technology and the need to keep pace with constant changes. Changes also must take place in the Govemment's approach to education to enable the children of today to keep pace with modem society. Many chaUenges are associated with mankind's move towards the twenty-first century. I have no doubt that children and young people have problems to face and pressures to cope with that are vastly different from the problems I had to cope with when I was young. The environment in which children grow up is immeasurably different from the environment that I experienced. The modem household has very little in common with the household of the fifties, the sixties or even the seventies because it is more orientated to consumer goods, the dreaded TV, videos and other innovations. A changed perception of a woman's role in life is also widespread and society has moved into the era of the double-income family. Consequently, the pace of home life has quickened considerably. Broken marriages and single-parent families are increasing and, in many instances, children fend for themselves much more than children used to. As a result, in my opinion, children are much more independent and aware but are still immature and emotionally vulnerable despite their confident manner. It takes a great degree of skill and understanding to be able to teach the children of today, bearing in mind all the factors to which I have referred. With the background that I have described, is it any wonder that the maintenance of discipline in class rooms is now so difficult? Unfortunately, in many cases, modem children come from a home environment in which the standard of discipline that used to apply is not practised. People no longer have their meals together at a dinner-table but have their meals independently and, more often than not, in front of the television. In cases in which both parents are working, the amount of time spent by parents with their children has diminished. The radio and the TV are on incessantly. In the past children had jobs to do when they got home from school, but today an increasing number of them come home from school and immediately sit down in front of the television set. Unfortunately, in many cases the responsibility that goes with being a parent is neglected. This Government proposes to introduce a human relationships course into schools, and this is an indication that parents today are not fulfilling the role that was fulfilled by parents many years ago. The basis upon which the human relationships course is to be introduced into schools will allow parents every say in what direction the course should take and give them the right to withdraw their child from the course if they so desire. It is becoming increasingly evident that many parents do not have the parenting skills to handle the modem child, let alone the teenager. Not only did corporal punishment go out of the school system through pressure from parents, but also corporal punishment Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2193 went out of the home. This emerging lack of discipline in a child's background naturally places increased pressure on schools and teachers. I am not saying that aU children fit into this mould; far from it. However, an increasing number of children do fit into this mould, and the influence of those children within the class room makes the profession of teaching much more difficult and challenging. This is particularly the case when parents of problem children do not support the teacher in his or her endeavours to discipline their child. The moves that the Minister and his department are making towards the tightening of discipline within Queensland schools are welcome. Whilst no thinking person would support the ovemse of corporal punishment, its judicious use can often work wonders, as many honourable members in this Chamber will recaU. In addition, there is the small minority of non-achievers who are at school under sufferance, particularly those who are stUl in the school system as a result of the Federal Government's raising the minimum age limit to 16 years before unemployment benefits can be drawn. This has resulted in extra strain in the class room and extra cost to the State without a compensating increase in funding being provided to the State. The move by the Minister and his department to allow school principals and teachers more discretion in suspending or expelling students is also welcome. One of the reasons why non-Govemment schools have increased in popularity over recent years has been their flexibility in these areas. Because their children's fiiture is at stake, parents are increasingly demanding that the dismptive influences within the class room do not interfere with their chUdren's studies. I support the honourable member for Fassifem who raised this issue. It is recognised that a much higher percentage of students attending private schools wish to go on to tertiary education. Consequently, parents feel that because of that factor private schools provide a much more stable environment and one that is conducive to study. The peer pressure is towards study and not away from it, as can be the case in some State schools, and particularly where boys are concemed. Whilst mentioning tertiary education, it is appropriate to refer to the changes that have taken place in regard to the assessment of a student's capacity to handle further studies. There has been a move away from extemal exams towards intemal assessments, and the end result is the dreaded tertiary entrance assessment—better knowTi as the TE score. This has not occurred without controversy, because many people do not understand it. They fail to appreciate that it is purely an assessment for entry into tertiary and further education. Parents tend to blame the system when their sons or daughters fail to achieve a sufficiently high score to gain entry to a university or college. This blame should be directed not at the type of assessment, but rather at the shortage of places within Queensland universities and colleges for students who are capable of coping with the course of their choosing. The Minister and his Govemment are to be congratulated on the steps that they have taken to redress this problem. The initiative to supply funds and thereby ensure additional places within Queensland's universities and colleges should not have been necessary. As the Minister stated, this funding is to take up some of the shortfall that has resulted from the underfunding by the Commonwealth Government. The Opposition's Education spokesman raised the point that the Labor Party suggested this action several years ago, but I question that statement. Essentially, it reflects the Commonwealth Govemment's welching on the agreements made in 1974. The Opposition, by indicating that it was prepared to take that action, was condoning the Federal Govemment's approach in not providing sufficient funding to Queensland. It is to be hoped that the Commonwealth recognises the disadvantage that Queensland has been placed in through its exceptionally high population growth rate and that the formula is amended to overcome what has been a severe restriction on Queenslanders. In the mean time, when compared to other States, Queensland is behind to the extent of 4 000 places in its universities and colleges. Mr Schuntner: We're working on that, though. Mr SLACK: That is good. I know that the Govemment is taking those initiatives. 2194 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

I commend the honourable member for Mansfield, Mr Craig Sherrin, for the work that he has put in on the production of his report which highlights some of the problems with Queensland's tertiary education, particularly the shortfall in funds to this State. WhUst I am referring to the TE score. I would also mention that is not meant to be a basis for an appraisal by employers. However, the fact remains that many employers place an undue emphasis on TE score achievements, rather than recognise the exit statement which a student receives when he or she leaves school at the end of Year 12. Unfortunately, in many cases sufficient recognition is not given to the exit statement as there appears to be a lack of understanding and acceptance of it. Students are issued with an exit statement for general purposes which is intended to give employers an indication of a student's proficiency. As approximately only 30 per cent of school-leavers go on to tertiary education and the remaining 70 per cent go out into the work-force, much more needs to be done to get the message across to the general public on the respective roles of both the tertiary entrance score assessment and the exit statement, particularly on the role that the exit statement is supposed to play. However, there appear to be other interrelated problems. Many parents cannot relate to the intemal assessment on the basis that they feel that where an exam is held and a place in class given it serves as a direct indication to them of the level of achievement of their son or daughter. Being told by a teacher that a student is doing well does not satisfy them, because quite often most parents with children in the class are being told that their child is doing well. Because of the misconception by employers of the importance of the TE score, many students, particularly those who are not academically minded, tend to drop out when they realise that they will not get a high TE score. They then do not apply themselves to the degree to which they are capable. The incorporation of TAFE centres within schools is welcome and will play a very real role in educating those students who are not academically inclined. One of the first vocational training centres was estabUshed at Gayndah, which is in my electorate. I am speaking from experience when I say that it is doing an excellent job in providing an avenue for students who are not academically inclined. It is proving to be a very real asset to the district as it also fulfils the role of training people in other skills that can be used in the district. The initiative of this Govemment in introducing that type of system within country communities, in particular, is most welcome. It is a very real assistance. Because of the lack of places available in our tertiary institutions, many students who are capable of going on to further study become aware that they will not achieve the exceptionally high TE score required. They then tend to lose interest. Everyone must be concemed that potentially dedicated professional people are being lost through the shortfall in Commonwealth funding. The requirement to achieve such a high position in the State average is placing an additional and unnecessary strain on students, their parents and, indirectly, teachers. I do not believe that in the time of extemal examinations such a sustained strain was evident. However, it must be remembered that extemal exams had their own set of problems such as cramming at the end of term, taking a chance and endeavouring to predict the exam paper and, of course, the pressures of sitting for the exam. Honourable members would acknowledge that some people are better than others at handling these conditions. Although the problems that have emerged with the present system have to be addressed, that does not mean that what existed before is the way to go. With the correlation between education and job opportunities being recognised at a time when youth unemployment is high, every effort is being made by parents to ensure that their sons and daughters receive the best possible standard of education. This is particularly evident in my area, where, because of adverse economic and weather conditions, sons and daughters are not being encouraged to come home to the family farm or business. In these circumstances, it was a particularly cmel blow when the Federal Labor Government decided to apply an assets test on top of the existing income Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2195 test for Austudy and the Assistance for Isolated Children Scheme—a move I am sure that it wiU come to regret. As the ownership of property is getting beyond the reach of most people, particularly wage-eamers and self-employed people, the only sound investment for the fiiture of their children is in education. Everyone knows what is happening in the housing industry and that home-ownership for the average Australian is becoming a thing of the past. Consequently, the Education portfoUo is an extemely sensitive one. Is it any wonder that decisions on education are closely scmtinised by the general public? Changes are being made, as they must, to keep pace with a changing world. However, these changes are not being made without the due processes of evaluation and consultation. As evidenced by the recent Budget and post-Budget announcements, the Minister and the Govemment have a genuine desire to involve the community. WhUe the Govemment, of necessity is forced to manage within severe financial constraints, it has made every effort to maintain spending and has even increased the Budget aUocations for education. Its approach has demonstrated that it is aware of the problems and that it cares. The Minister is not an academic but has undoubted common sense. He comes from a teaching background and has a family of his own. He therefore understands the hopes and aspirations of parents. No doubt his commonsense approach will be of benefit to education in Queensland. As honourable members are aware, I have every respect for teachers and the job that they are doing. It could even be said that I have a special affection for two in particular. My electorate has 32 schools, several of which are one-teacher schools that are helping to maintain the identity of small country districts. I am very proud of the high schools at Gin Gin and Gayndah. The teachers, staff and students at those schools set an excellent standard. IncidentaUy, the Gayndah State School is one of the oldest in the State. Only recently the Minister visited that school to celebrate with the people of the district its 125th anniversary. It has a very proud record over a very long period. At the same time the high school celebrated its 25th anniversary. Quite a few of the schools in my electorate have been established for more than 75 years. From my experience of visiting all the schools, I know that all the teachers are very dedicated and professional in their approach. I have every confidence in their abiUty and the future of education, which is in their hands. I have much pleasure in supporting the Minister's presentation of his Estimates for Education, Youth and Sport. Mr MACKENROTH (Chatsworth) (4.07 p.m.): Today I wish to speak about the Sport section of the Minister's portfolio and about the need for a parliamentary select committee to investigate support for sporting bodies. My comments are not meant to be derogatory or to be political point-scoring; I wish them to be taken by the Minister as constmctive criticism for the need for greater support for sporting bodies here in Queensland. For too long, politicians from all political parties have ridden on the back of our top athletes trying to be associated with the glory of winning. Firstly, I wish to quote from some statements in relation to sport. The first is an editorial which appeared in the Queensland Times headed "Boon for athletes", which stated— "A plan to seek corporate sponsorship for Australian sport will prove to be the best thing to happen to sport since the establishment of the Australian Institute of Sport. The Federal Govemment has proposed an Austrahan Sports Aid Foundation which will chase corporate doUars for sport. The move should open the door to vastly more funds for athletes, aUowing them to compete on more equal terms with overseas athletes. The corporate sponsorship scheme has worked weU in the US and it should work here. 2196 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Perhaps the greatest advantage to athletes will be the end of situations like those at the end of the Olympics ... when 20 Australian Olympians came back... to go on the dole. With stmctured sponsorship, Australian athletes should be able to devote their time to excelling in their chosen sports, secure in the knowledge it will not condemn them to living on the breadline. The move is a recognition that amateurism in the Olympics is long dead and that Australians must be given a decent chance to compete with athletes who are professional in aU but name." I agree completely with that editorial. I am certain that all other members in this Chamber do. However, I left out five words from it. I will now read that paragraph with those words included. It states— "Perhaps the greatest advantage to athletes will be the end of situations like those at the end of the Olympics just past, when 20 Australian Olympians came back from Los Angeles to go on the dole." The same thing happened when the athletes came back from Seoul. The same thing occurred when the athletes retumed from Moscow and Montreal. Everybody gets into the act and talks about the need for greater Govemment assistance for sport, the greater need for corporate sponsorship and the greater need for something to be done about the elite in our sporting fields and for the young people who are coming on. The greatest problem is that people talk about it but nobody really does anything about it. No positive moves forward have been made since the establishment of the Australian Institute of Sport for sportsmen in Australia. We must stop talking about what we can do and what we should be doing and sit down to look at how we can help the athletes. An article of 22 September in the Sun, referring to the Olympics just concluded, stated— "Swimmings's madcap mentor Laurie Lawrence could be persuaded not to quit as an Olympic coach if the State Government agrees to boost sports funding. Premier Mike Ahern said it was on the cards for Brisbane to become Australia's swimming mecca—through increased support for coaches like Lawrence and for competitors like Mansfield's Olympic golden boy Duncan Armstrong. There could be State-based incentives for businesses to invest in Queensland's elite sports men and women to stop them being lured overseas. 'I think its an exciting concept and one which we should consider,' Mr Ahem said. 'We might be able to consider it in the context of the State's sports program.' Armstrong, unemployed, has been offered a lucrative swimming scholarship at the University of Florida.

But Mr Ahern will talk with Armstrong and could offer him a job with the Queensland Tourist and Travel Corporation to keep him in Brisbane. Mr Ahern said a meeting would be arranged as soon as Armstrong had retumed from the Seoul Games and finished his celebrations." However, the Sun of last Friday stated that Duncan Armstrong is going to America. I am not criticising Mr Ahem for that, but I would Uke to know what the Govemment did to try to discourage Duncan Armstrong and the other athletes who are going to America from doing so. I cannot blame the athletes for accepting the offer of a scholarship. However, once again, another politician is jumping in at the time that an athlete does well and saying that he will look at doing all those things, yet nothing is done. Mr Ahem suggested that it could be considered in the context of the State's sports program. Today, we are debating what has been done in the Budget for those types of athletes. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2197

The Departmental Services and Programs: A Budget Perspective booklet that came out with this year's Budget stated— "In 1972, the Govemment established the first Ministry of Sport in Australia and since then has provided approximately $45 million to the 81 sports now covered by various measures of assistance." I do not dispute that. I do not think that anybody disputes that. Certainly, in 1972, the Queensland Govemment did set up the first Ministry of Sport. However, it cannot live on that for ever. It was set up 16 years ago. We must look at advancing what we are doing for sportsmen and sportswomen in Queensland. In 1985-86, funding for sports assistance schemes was $4,680,000; in 1986-87, it was $4,973,000; in 1987-88, it was $4,973,000—no increase last year; and in 1988-89 it will be $5,252,000. In the last three years, funding for sport has increased by slightly over $500,000, or 10.89 per cent. The amount that the Queensland Govemment is spending on sport is not nearly adequate. It needs to look at what money should be spent on. If an all-party select committee of the Parliament sat down and talked to the sporting bodies in Queensland and ascertained the sort of assistance they need, we could come up with a scheme that could work and which would be for the benefit of all Queenslanders. One of the benefits would be a decrease in vandalism. I believe that the more young people who are involved in sport, the less vandalism will occur. At present, young people are buming down schools and destroying things in the community. Traditionally, most of those kids are not involved in organised sport. If a select committee were in operation, it would be interesting for it to find out from the Juvenile Aid Bureau if the kids who are being arrested for vandalism and who are getting into trouble are participating in organised sport. I am involved in junior sport. An association of which I am the president has some IVi thousand players. Very few of the kids who are registered with that association end up in trouble with the police or with other authorities. I think that a lot of the credit for that should go to the people who are involved in that association and in giving those kids something to do other than go out on the streets. Another benefit flowing from increasing the sport budget is a decrease in the health bill. If young people are involved in sport, they will be healthier. In later years, people who are still involved in sport will be much healthier and the Govemment will not need to spend the amount of money that it spends now on health. The total Government health bill in Queensland this year is $ 1,442.7m. As I have stated, the sport budget is $5.252m, or 0.3 per cent of the amount of money that the Govemment will spend on health this year. That would only need to be increased by approximately 1 per cent, and the Govemment would be spending approximately $16m or $ 17m this year. I beUeve that that would decrease substantially the health bill of $1.5 billion. If the Govemment can get young people involved in sport, the health bill will be decreased. I will tell honourable members the cost of two components of the health bill this year. The Alcohol and Dmg Dependence Service is costing $6.026m and the Campaign Against Dmg Abuse is costing $5.594m. Both of those components have greater budgets than the total amount of money that this Govemment will spend on the hundreds of thousands of kids who are involved in sport in Queensland. The Govemment is going to spend that money on people who certainly need that type of counselling. However, the Govemment should be trying to stop that problem before it even starts. As I have said, getting people involved in sport is the way to do it. There is a great need for a parliamentary select committee as I have suggested. Since Queensland was given a new Premier, a number of initiatives have been taken by his Govemment. I ask the Minister not to say in his reply, "We are not going to do that." I ask him to say, "We will examine closely what you have said and at least give it some consideration." I think that a lot of benefits can be gained from such an approach. 2198 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

The Govemment needs to consider direct Govemment assistance for sport; corporate assistance; and assistance for elite athletes. I will deal first of aU with the present Govemment scheme that operates in Queensland. As I see it, the scheme consists of two levels of assistance. One is direct assistance to clubs and the second is direct assistance to associations. At the club level—and I suppose that is the level that involves most people—there is a 25 per cent subsidy for the coaching of juniors and a 20 per cent subsidy for capital facilities. In this year's Budget papers the Govemment states— "The philosophy developed in 1972 and still applied today has been to sponsor assistance schemes which provide funding in such a manner that would enable sports volunteers throughout the State to become more proficient in all aspects of sport..." Yet the only way in which a club can legitimately obtain the 25 per cent subsidy for coaching is to pay someone. That in itself knocks the Govemment's philosophy of sports assistance for volunteers. Those people are being paid; they are not volunteers. I am certain that the Minister, the Division of Sport and every single member of the Queensland Parliament would be aware of what is happening in relation to the scheme that provides subsidies for coaching in Queensland. I refer to the fact that clubs are forced to rort the scheme. They have to break the mles to get money out of the scheme. I do not think that the Minister can honestly say, "No, I am not aware of it." I believe that every member of the Queensland Parliament is aware of it. It is just like the in-line machines that were operating in clubs. Everyone knew that those machines were operating, but no-one did anything about it because they knew they were providing money for the licensed clubs. Clubs have to rort the scheme in order to get money out of it. The clubs are paying the coaches; the coaches are donating money back to the club or to the association; and then the subsidy is claimed for those payments. I know that it is happening; everyone knows that it is happening. We close our eyes to it because we do not have another way of giving those clubs the money that the Govemment has aUocated. I think that that is a head-in-the-sand attitude. It is a matter that needs to be examined closely by the Minister and one which could be examined by a select committee. I believe that the allocation of money to junior sport in Queensland should be on a per capita basis, that is, if a sport has a certain number of registered players, a certain amount of money is given to the association or the State body and that money is split up. A certain amount of money would be given to the State body, then to association level and, finally, club level. I believe that that would be the best possible way of distributing money to all sports, including all junior sports, in Queensland, so that the largest number of people could get the benefit of it. Mr Littleproud: What about phantom membership? Mr MACKENROTH: That would need to be considered. Every system that has ever been thought of has a way to open it up. As I have said, I am involved in sport. I am the president of the largest netball club in Queensland. My club could get $3,750 out of this Govemment every single year. The head coach of our club is the Australian director of coaching. We have seven level 1 coaches. The club could quite easily justify to the Minister and his department a subsidy of $3,750. The club does not do that, because I will not break the mles. People say, "Why don't we get that money?" I am not going to sign something that is wrong, so the club does not receive the subsidy. The Minister sends me letters and points out that a particular club in my electorate has received a certain amount of money. I know that clubs in my electorate are using that scheme, as is every other club in Queensland. The Government just says, "We are not going to do anything about it because it will upset too many people." The Govemment Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2199 should not worry about upsetting them; it should change the scheme so that the maximum amount of money is given to the largest number of people in the fairest way. A 20 per cent subsidy is payable on the constmction of capital facUities. That is a great asset to clubs. If a club wants to build something, the Govemment will give the club a subsidy of 20 per cent. The Govemment can go further than that. Clubs in outer metropolitan areas are expanding because large numbers of young people Uve in, and are moving to, those areas. The Govemment could say to them, "If you want to forgo your 20 per cent subsidy, we wiU lend you money at cheap interest to buUd that facility." The Govemment would then pick up the subsidy claim that it would save by subsidising the interest. That would enable clubs in outer metropoUtan areas to obtain their facilities more quickly. The facilities would then be available for the members of the club, particularly those who reside in rapidly developing areas in which many young people have nothing to do. Sporting clubs need amendments to be made to the Art Unions and Amusements Act. In 1976, the Act was amended and a Umit of $500 was inserted as the level at which a special permit was not required. A club that wants to cam gross proceeds of more than $500 in an art union must apply for a special permit. The fee that was set in 1976, namely $500, is still the same. An application fee of $33 is payable for each $2,000 or part thereof as well as 3 per cent of the authorised gross proceeds of the art union. Today, that level could easily be lifted to $2,000. Clubs raising money throughout the year by way of raffles are required to pay the Govemment 5 per cent of net receipts if their gross proceeds over the year are more than $1,000. I believe that that 5 per cent requirement should be wiped out. I do not believe that sporting bodies should have to pay the Govemment 5 per cent of their net proceeds on money raised from minor art unions for use by the sporting clubs. If the Govemment is not prepared to wipe out that 5 per cent, it should at least increase the minimum amount from $1,000. As $1,000 was set in 1976, the level could be increased to an amount that is relative to today's standards. Something that could be examined by a select committee is the provision of assistance to elite athletes. I do not believe that athletes want hand-outs from Governments in the form of money for doing nothing. The greatest need of athletes who are training is the need for flexible jobs so that they can train for the hours that they need to train and go overseas or interstate to compete. That type of assistance needs to come from the Govemment, semi-Govemment bodies, banks, insurance companies and other major corporations. The Minister, through his department, could build up a bank of names of bodies that are prepared to give that type of assistance. A swimmer could have a job for five hours a day and be paid for only five hours a day. The employer could give him a job for five hours so that in the morning he could train and in the afternoon he could knock off work early and train. If he needs to travel to Europe or to America to compete, his employer could allow him to leave his work, to compete and to retum to his job. That would be of great assistance to elite athletes in Queensland.

Mr GILMORE (Tablelands) (4.28 p.m.): It is not often that one is given an opportunity to speak about some of the personalities involved in education in one's electorate. I take this opportunity to thank some of the people who are involved in education in my electorate in particular and in the peninsula region. Mr Frank Young, the new regional director, who took over from Alf Garrone, has proven to be most forthright and a very great asset to education in far-north Queensland. He is easy to get along with. Indeed, he is responsive to requests for information and assistance in some of the more delicate areas of education. It is important that Queensland has officers of that calibre, because education is an aspect of Govemment that impacts on every family in this State. It is therefore important in the homes in our electorates not only to the parents but also to the children. It is important that as a Govemment we employ and promote people who have the sensitivity and understanding to make sure that education is seen in a good light by the parents in our community. 2200 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

I commend the Minister on the very careful and consultative approach that he has taken to his portfolio in the last 9 or 10 months. He has gone to very great pains to consult with everybody in the community, including teachers, unions, parents and other people interested in education. He has done an extraordinary and excellent job in bringing together education groups in this State into one cohesive group. A couple of days ago, just after a series of conferences that had been held with teachers throughout the peninsula region, I had an interesting conversation with some people involved in education in my area. They were sufficiently astonished to raise this subject with me. As they spoke to teachers throughout the area, they found that the teachers' only real problems in that area related to their concern for better education for the children. I found that of great relief and interest.

AU the hoo-ha that honourable members read in the press about how teachers are considering strike action because of new legislative processes, the changes to education and a devolution of power, is simply not tme—at least in the peninsula region. The teachers in that area are dedicated to education. They are concemed about the pupils who come before them. They recognise that those pupUs are for ever influenced by the coming together of teachers and students in the class room. I believe that it is tme to say that, in a chUd's Ufe, a teacher has probably more influence in the long term than the child's parents. My electorate contains 21 State high schools and primary schools, ranging from very large schools with over 900 students to quite small schools with only 10 students at certain times of the year. Mr Scott: Any private schools—CathoUc schools? Mr GILMORE: My electorate contains three Catholic schools. The Catholic schools in my electorate play an important role in education. They do a very good job not only in terms of literacy and numeracy but also in the spiritual education of children. I tum now to the costs involved in the provision of educational services in my mral electorate, which is to a degree remote from Brisbane and some of its schools are geographicaUy remote. It is tme to say that the further a school is from a capital city, the more it costs to provide teachers and housing for teachers. As an example, I refer to small schools such as the Petford school, which at times has as few as six or seven pupils. The cost of the provision of a class room, library facilities, a teacher and other ancillary services for education at that school is extraordinarily high. However, it is important that those services are provided. Individually, children at small schools are just as important as children in larger schools with 600 or 900 students. The individual student is very important indeed. His level of education must be as good as the level of education that is provided to students in larger schools. However, it can be provided only at some additional cost. My electorate contains an education centre that provides library services, computing and other program services that are provided to remote schools. That is a very good service and it provides a centre for communication between teachers and a centre for in-service training, which was mentioned earlier. Education centres were considered so important that, when the Commonwealth Govemment dropped the funding for them, the State Govemment immediately moved to pick up the funding and continue those services because of the difference that they make between a good education and a bad education in remote and isolated schools. I turn now to the provision of equipment in schools. It does not seem to have come to the notice of architects and others that the tropical regions of Australia are geographically diverse and not necessarily always hot. For many years concems have been expressed about the provision of fans in schools in remote areas and regions above the Tropic of Capricom. From time to time, because of the cold winters, schools in Tolga, Atherton, Malanda and Millaa Millaa require heating. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2201

Mr Scott: You have not got Millaa MUlaa in your electorate, have you? Mr GILMORE: No, I have not. It has been brought to my attention that some books in the library at the Millaa MUlaa State School have whiskers on them because of the moisture in the atmosphere and the cold and damp prevailing conditions. As a matter of course, heaters should be provided in schools such as that in the tropics. There should be no question that simply because those schools lie geographicaUy above the Tropic of Capricom, they are obviously in the tropics and therefore warm. A little more common sense is necessary in the provision of fans and heaters in our schools wherever appropriate. More advice on those matters should be taken from p. and c. associations and incumbent principals. Recently, an interesting change in education in Queensland has occurred in that education has been divided into two. There is now the Education Department, on one hand, which looks after primary and high schools, and, on the other hand, there are the TAFE coUeges, which come under a different Ministry. An interesting development is taking place whereby we are splicing TAFE colleges and Year 11 and 12 courses so that those students who do not aspire to be brain surgeons can undertake four board subjects and complete the remainder of their subjects in the TAFE college system. As a result, they graduate with a TE score and a TAFE leaving certificate for those courses that are accredited by the TAFE organisation. Those students will have taken advantage of some real life experiences and will have some real life ability to enable them to go out into the work-force with an expectation of employment. I tum now to the use of technology in class rooms. One wonders whether we should continue headlong in the race for the use of what I consider to be state-of-the-art technology. I suppose that I could use the analogy of the Health Department. At present, every time that a patient goes into hospital he is subjected to more and more technological advancements that have been made in the search for a cure for whatever it is that ails him. Every time one of these new technological advances is introduced into a hospital system, it costs more money. Therefore, there is an ever- increasing spiral of demand on health costs, which have to be provided for in the Health Department's budget. A similar trend is occurring in the class room. Educators seem to be hooked on the idea that technology will be the answer to the maiden's prayer, when indeed technology should be used selectively and very carefully in the class room. I would not for one moment advocate a retum to the talk-and-chalk days that all of us, as young students, went through. However, our priorities in the introduction of technology into our class rooms should be reassessed objectively in terms of what is expected from our class rooms. The introduction of each new technological advance should be assessed to ascertain whether it results in a commensurate increase or improvement in the education of our children. One suspects that, on a per capita basis, there is probably no correlation between the number of students who are entering or completing their education with a degree or some sort of higher education than there were in our day. Of course, with the exponential advance in the technology base and the knowledge base that we as a community are facing, every child who comes out of a high school or a university has to be better educated than those who came out the year before, because the base of knowledge is so much larger and more has to be absorbed. Mr Scott: Do you have a computer in your office? Are you into computers, as they say? Mr GILMORE: My very word. Mr Scott: I am just wondering, because if you are not, our education has been lacking in that regard. The point you are making is quite valid. 2202 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Mr GILMORE: I would like to remind the member for Cook that, when he went to school, lap-top or desk-top computers were not available. Mr Scott: You are not commenting on my age, are you? Mr GILMORE: Heaven forbid! However, it is tme to suggest that, even though technology has to be used as much as possible so that our schools can produce rounded, educated and useful people into our community, at all times care must be taken with the cost of and the cost benefit that comes from technology. I believe that excellence in education cannot be measured by doUars alone. Often in this place we have heard from the Opposition benches comparisons being made between education in Queensland, South AustraUa and other States. Opposition members make the clear comparison by saying that, because Queensland spends X dollars and the other States spend Y dollars, by virtue of those dollar differences the education systems in those States must be better. Of course, they are wrong. Excellence in education can only be measured by the results that come out of our schools. ExceUence in education can be measured in Queensland in very real terms, because in education terms the Queensland system is well regarded round the country and, indeed, throughout the world. It has been with very great pleasure indeed that I have taken part in this debate. The Queensland Govemment places education very highly indeed in its priorities, as evidenced by the fact that the State Budget provides for the expenditure of a large amount of money on education. The Govemment has a continuing commitment to education. The students, teachers and parents of this State are well served indeed by this Govemment and will continue to be weU served into the next century. Mr D'ARCY (Woodridge) (4.42 p.m.): I want at the outset of my speech to deal with a couple of geographic facts about the Woodridge electorate that relate very significantly to education. According to the micrographics published by the census bureau, 42 per cent of Woodridge's population is below the age of 18. That means that 42 per cent of the electorate is affected by education in one way or another. The number of people attending Govemment schools is very high. In fact, of the 48.9 per cent who attend primary school, 42 per cent attend Govemment schools and only 7 per cent attend private, or non-Government, schools. In the secondary school sector, 26 per cent attend Govemment schools and only 3.9 per cent attend private schools. It must be realised that 86 per cent of the incomes coming into the homes in the Woodridge electorate are below $22,000 a year. When one looks at that figure and the other Australian Bureau of Statistics figures that I have already referred to, one will see that the Government ignores funding for education in the Woodridge area. This Govemment is totally and utterly failing to address many of the problems that are an integral part of education in my electorate. I repeat that 42 per cent of the people in the electorate of Woodridge are under the age of 18. The Minister has the bloody audacity—and I use that word advisedly in this Chamber—to send out a document outlining sporting grants. I presume he has sent it to every member because it must be something that National Party members are proud of Considering the figures that I have just referred to, the sporting grants that were allocated to the electorate of Woodridge are the most disgraceful thing that I have seen. I will refer to the sporting grants, which are made on a doUar-for-doUar basis. The Govemment aUocated two such grants. One, of $9,920, was to a very good club, the Logan Hockey Club. The other, of $460, was to the Kingston community and weight- lifting club. In other words, during the year 1988-89, the electorate of Woodridge will receive $10,380. Mr Stephan: There is no doUar-for-doUar subsidy. Mr D'ARCY: That amount is a pittance and it does not represent a doUar-for- doUar subsidy, as claimed by the Minister. The junior coaching project attracts a subsidy of $1 for every $4 expended. The Queensland Govemment provides a paltry subsidy Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2203 for the electorate of Woodridge where, as I said earlier, 42 per cent of the population is under the age of 18 years. My electorate has received grants in respect of boxing, gymnastics, judo, karate, netball, swimming and trampoline activities. I do not intend to read out individually all the items that attracted a grant, but I inform the Committee that the grants totalled $14,475. In other words, 42 per cent of my electorate—those 20 000 who are aged under 18 years—according to statistics currently avaUable, received a lousy $24,000 for sport. Is it any wonder that the honourable member for Chatsworth, Mr Mackenroth, made the statements he did about sport? The honourable member related the low level of Govemment funding for sport to the high incidence of school vandalism. I inform the Committee that my electorate would be one of the areas in Queensland worst affected by school vandalism. Perhaps the Minister ought to co-ordinate the sections of his portfoUo and begin to provide adequate funds for the sporting activities and facilities that are needed in areas that are badly affected by school vandalism. Several times over the years in this Parliament I have pleaded with various Ministers for Education for the implementation of a regional education system in the Logan/ Woodridge area. In my opinion, there is something ftindamentally wrong with the Department of Education. It is so out of date. I used to think that the ghost that haunted the old Treasury Building was to blame, but now that the Education Department occupies a different building I cannot claim that as the reason. Administrators in the Education Department have made the department the worst ''Yes, Minister'^ department in Queensland. I can find no evidence of planning or foresight contained in any of the department's programs. For an area such as Logan/ Woodridge, a regional education system is imperative. Even on an experimental basis, a regional education system should be proceeded with. Loganlea is a perfect area in which to conduct such an experiment because a TAFE and a high school are located in the area, although the primary schools are located at Waterford. A regional centre would provide the area with a facility comprised of shared resources. If the Department of Education had located its pre-schools, primary schools, high schools and further education colleges in one centre, it would have made excellent economic sense—even in the long term, because the population of my electorate is so closely settled. At present, Suncorp and other residential developers are rapidly developing cluster-housing estates and home units. It would still be possible for the Minister to undertake an experiment in regional education. Perhaps the Education Department should adopt a sensible attitude and begin to examine the merits of education centres instead of scattering schools throughout the State and creating massive transport problems. My electorate has massive problems associated with transport that the department has never come to terms with. Because courses are not available in my electorate, children have to attend high schools in different areas in spite of the fact that they may not particularly want to do so. If a regional education system was provided, most of those problems would disappear. As the student population of my electorate decreased, the buUdings would stiU be useful if their designation and purpose could be changed. The fact of life is that a regional education system makes economic, educational and security sense; yet not one investigation of the proposal has ever been undertaken by the department. No attempt has been made by the backward administrators of the Department of Education to introduce a proper regional system of education that would not only assist schoolchildren but also benefit the State generaUy if it were situated in the Logan City area. The situation is absolutely desperate and it is time that someone took the bit between his teeth and did something about it. AnciUary training and education are terribly neglected in the education system generally. I refer to Queensland's high road toll. The road safety programs that are conducted in the schools by a couple of traffic police officers are totaUy inadequate. The department has tried to incorporate a road safety faciUty for children who probably do not have the maturity or academic capacity to manage its use. Not nearly enough is 2204 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) being provided by the Department of Education to promote driver education in secondary schools. The best efforts are being made by local sponsors who have provided one or two courses on the subject. The point I make is that a proper program of driver education and life-skills should be established in the schools to cover topics such as alcohol abuse, smoking, heahh and dietary habits. Because no planned programs have been provided by the Department of Education, hit-and-miss courses are being conducted that depend on either local community goodwill or teacher involvement. It is time that the problems I have referred to that exist in State schools were addressed. The sink-or-swim practices that have emerged in schools are likely to continue unless the Minister takes appropriate action. I reiterate that 42 per cent of the population in Woodridge is under the age of 18 and that most students attend public schools. Moreover, 86 per cent of the population of Woodridge receives $22,000 or less in income a year. The socio-economic problems that exist in Woodridge probably exist in no other area of this State. Because of those socio-economic factors, the TE score foisted on the children who live in my electorate results in severe disadvantage for them when they attempt to obtain places in tertiary institutions. A newspaper report published today indicates that the Federal Govemment will provide grants to make available an additional 4 000 tertiary institution places, but the disadvantages suffered by students in my electorate originate largely from the TE score that was a fad of the Education Department. The Department of Education operated on jargon and fads even when I was a teacher. At that time the department changed programs from one year to the next. The Minister's department does not seem to be able to produce an acceptable system that will work to the advantage of the children of Queensland; yet previous speakers have praised the department's efforts. The other night I listened to a speech delivered by the Director-General of Education at the Springwood High School. That was the first time that I had heard him speak in public. He is so far out of touch that it is no wonder that the department is out of touch. Even the principal of the school blanched during his speech. The department must look at where it has gone wrong. I know that the Minister is considering changes to the TE score. The department is considering minimising the score, but I believe that it should be integrated with a public examination and Queensland will then be able to compete fairly with other States. It boils down to the fact that in areas such as my electorate children were obtaining the necessary TE score to undertake a course, but, because of the insufficient number of tertiary places, they were not able to gain entrance to that course because of the ridiculous way in which the places were filled. When the Minister took over this portfolio he made some attempt—and I praise him for that—to ensure that students entering tertiary studies should be subjected to a gauging system. A couple of years ago students who had no idea of their expectations were given five choices. They applied for courses for which they had no chance of being accepted. Consequently students were given the chance of five other courses, only one of which was applicable to the TE score. They probably qualified for four of those courses, but in real terms—because the places were not available in that particular institution—they were not eligible for those courses. The result is that these students take up a place in a tertiary institution and the following year they transfer to the course that they originaUy chose. They have increased their TE score and have kept another student out of that tertiary institution the following year. Graduates have been doing exactly the same in other (Queensland institutions and the department has done nothing about it. It is absolutely disgraceful. Queensland needs better educated people yet students are not allowed to attend tertiary institutions. In the time remaining to me I wish to talk about the so-called devolution. This is typical of the sink-or-swim attitude of the Government. For 10 years the Catholic Education Office has experimented with the handing-over of power or autonomy to various school bodies and is doing a reasonable job. The Catholic Education Office has found that approximately 40 per cent of powers can be passed on to suitable p. and c. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2205 and teacher associations. This Government intends to do that in 15 months' time and says that it is a great idea. PhUosophicaUy it probably is a great idea. It has merit and has worked in other places in the world, but not by simply shovelling out the responsibility as this Govemment is trying to do. It will not work. At the present time the people involved in p. and c. associations do not have the background or expertise to be able to handle that responsibility. In the school system many of the principals are promoted because of their teaching abUities and not because of their administrative abiUties. There are problems right throughout the system. Yet this Govemment is shovelling out this responsibility simply in order to save money. The Govemment has not increased resources in real terms. If this Govemment is to allow schools to follow their own philosophies and establish courses, the people involved need training and expertise. It will not happen in 15 months because of the way in which over the last two or three decades this Govemment has kept p. and c. associations and teachers hamstmng. The president of the Queensland Teachers Union, Mary Kelly, talked about this proposal and stated— "These two proposals are seriously flawed because: they are driven by Treasury desires to cover up the resource-starvation of schools"— that is tme— "a huge amount of extra work is generated, with no commensurate time, support or skill-training"— that is tme— "the speed of change is overwhelming, unacceptable and demoralizing; as is the lack of prior consultation; Principals are expected to become business managers as well as educational leaders." Those are the points that I made. The president of the Queensland Teachers Union makes those points succinctly and outlines exactly what has happened. What happens in a school that has a good library or, altematively, good humanities or language courses and it decides to promote those courses? Because of the way that this Govemment has organised its budgetary arrangements, courses will be promoted for the well-being of the balance of the students at that school. For example, a school that holds a language course might then find that it has to reduce its library facilities and employ inexperienced teacher/librarians. The end result wUl be that there will be no library facility at the school and part-time teachers will be employed. The Minister should not laugh, because it could happen. The Govemment is angling for something like this to happen because of the way that it has set up the system. There will be an imbalance and in the short term it will not work. I tum now to human relationships education. It is something of a surprise to see these programs listed as a positive initiative under the heading of devolution. Many teachers will recall the announcement by prominent Govemment members, following the election of Mr Ahem as Premier, that human relationships education would be taught in all schools. As with other parts of the curriculum, the department set about establishing a syllabus and work program material for schools to use in carrying out the human relationships program. At the eleventh hour, and only months before a number of schools are expected to implement human relationships education programs, this procedure stopped. Schools will be required to develop their own syllabus and program in consultation with wider community interests. This will include a range of people drawn from school staff, students, p. and c. associations, community groups and religious organisations. I ask: does this sudden change in approach and departure from normal procedures in the development of a new curriculum have more to do with Government concems about the bleatings of extreme Right Wing conservative groups on the issue of human relationships education than it does with any planned commitment through greater flexibility in the delivery of education in this State? 2206 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Money raised by p. and c. associations to finance fundamental and necessary activities in Queensland schools has been one of the most politically sensitive issues to the National Party Govemment and to other political parties. The power that has been exhibited by p. and c. associations to stop fund-raising at that level is one of the reasons behind the latest move. It should be noted that, with respect to telephone costs, the figure is based upon a series of factors other than the telephone costs in a particular school in previous years. Important as these other measures are, there is little doubt that the proposal to have local decisions taken about the mix of administrators, teachers and support staff in a particular school is the most far-reaching change suggested in the proposals to date. The guide-lines under which local decisions may be taken are yet to be produced—that is, assuming that guide-lines will be produced. Presumably it will be open to a school to make trade-offs. If education in Queensland is to succeed, it needs to be considered in total. An honourable member who has already spoken to the debate has said that the State does not need a mishmash of ideas shoved into schools in 15 months without proper preparation. With the so-caUed devolution that the Minister is foisting on education, that is what the State is getting. The education system in this State has always been one of fad and jargon. Mr VEIVERS (Southport) (5.02 p.m.): I wish to join in the debate on the Estimates of the Education Department and on the portfoUo responsibiUties of the Honourable Brian Littleproud, who is the Minister responsible for education, youth, sport and recreation. I have had the pleasure of knowing the member for Woodridge, Mr D'Arcy, who has just preceded me in this debate, since he was about 15 years old. He went to the same college as I did. I thought that he would be more open-minded about the education system. I remember the first time that he ran for the seat of Albert—in fact, I think I came down and counted heads for him at that stage. That is how ignorant I was in those days. I went down to help an old Nudgee boy get into power and the first thing I found was that he was kicking hell out of private enterprise. He is right off the list now. He did not add too much to the debate. As he supposedly came from the field of education, I thought that he would have had more knowledge of the subject. The Estimates under debate cover some very important aspects of our community way of life and impact on each and every electorate within the State. The areas covered by the Estimates provide for the servicing of members of the community from their early years right through, in many cases, to adulthood through our school system. State sporting bodies and community youth groups and contribute to the recreation needs of society. These are all positive contributions by the Govemment. All of these things have an impact on our young people, who are our future—I emphasise that point—and from among whom will come the future leaders of this great State and nation. The Education Department has played its part in assisting to develop high levels of performance. Schools that readily come to mind because of a recent intemational event are Mackay State High School, Rockhampton State High School, Brisbane State High School, Keebra Park State High School, which is in my own electorate of Southport, Rochedale State High School and Miami State High School. That is not all of the schools, but it is some of them. I am sure that all members of this Chamber would have to agree that all of those schools are renowned for their high standards. In fact, they have played their part in assisting in the development of Olympic medal-winners. Debbie Bowman, who was captain of the gold medal winning Australian women's hockey team at the Seoul Olympics, was a student at Keebra Park State High School, which, as I said, is in my electorate. I am very proud of her, as are her parents. Tracey Belbin, who was a member of that gold medal winning team, was a student at the Mackay State High School. Duncan Armstrong, who was the gold medallist in the 200 metres freestyle and the silver medallist in the 400 metres freestyle, was educated at Rockhampton State High Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2207

School and Brisbane State High School. I see that members in the Chamber are now starting to listen because not many of them know where these athletes come from. Mr Yewdale: I was going to move that it be taken as read. Mr VEIVERS: Is that right? Is the honourable member saying that he is not proud of these Olympians? He is as weak as water. Scott McGrory, who was a bronze medallist in the teams pursuit, finished his education at the Miami State High School. That is another school on the Gold Coast. AU of those athletes have received assistance through the Govemment's Encour­ agement to Sport Scheme, either by way of individual grants or development squad funding under the scheme's gifted sportspersons measure of assistance. Mr Davis: And don't forget also Mr VEIVERS: The honourable member is not in his correct seat. He should get back to it and I will accept his interjection. In addition, they would have been assisted in their earUer days through the highly successfiil Junior Coaching Subsidy scheme. Mr Davis: And don't forget also Mr VEIVERS: I have only 16 minutes left and I would like to finish my speech. I do not want to be intermpted by incompetents. The Queensland Govemment has a proud record of providing meaningful financial assistance to sport in this State and, in Australia, it set the pace when in 1972 it created the first effective Ministry of Sport and the first I)epartment of Sport. The Govemment's scheme is the only one in Australia that provides assistance from the local club level right through to the high performance level. No schemes in other States do that. In addition, the Queensland scheme provides funding to assist with the development of playing facilities. State administration costs, State directors of coaching and regional directors of coaching, courses and seminars for officials, assisting our Queensland teams to attend and compete at national titles, assistance with the staging of national and intemational events in Queensland and the holding of State championships in the country, and assistance for our country-based athletes. Mr Scott: Have they got "pause for applause" in there? Mr VEIVERS: Usually it happens spontaneously, but I know it wiU not come from the honourable member because he does not understand class. All of these measures provide a meaningfiil and unique package of financial assistance to sport. Under this scheme, since 1972 the Govemment has assisted sport through junior coaching programs, with subsidies amounting to $10,711,522. The total value of those coaching programs is $35,638,052. Turning to funding for the development of playing-fields—the Govemment has contributed $ 17m, by way of subsidy, to assist in the development of sports facilities throughout the State to a total value of almost $70m. Those two measures have assisted in providing many man-hours of employment throughout the State. Not too many members of this Chamber can say that the Govemment has not helped some sporting body in their electorates. If they do, they are telling lies. Mr Davis: Here's one. Mr VEIVERS: And the honourable member is teUing Ues—I am not aUowed to say that, so I wiU say that he is telling untmths. In addition, the scheme has assisted in the employment of 63 administrators at the State level and 84 directors and regional directors of coaching throughout the State. The Govemment's contribution towards those costs has amounted to almost $3,500,000. 2208 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Again, that is a positive measure of assistance that is providing employment opportunities within sport, which is most important. In the areas of assistance covering courses and seminars, the Govemment has contributed $635,989 towards the costs of holding these important functions, which help develop the skills and abilities of administrators, treasurers, umpires, referees, etc. The total cost to sport of conducting these events was weU in excess of $1,271,976. This is a most important aspect of sports development. Every member in this Chamber will acknowledge the benefits to be accmed to sport by having highly trained and efficient officers and officials at all levels. In terms of sport in our country, usually—and particularly in relation to our amateur sports—when an athlete wins the right to represent his State, he also wins the right to pay the costs involved. Recognising this fact, the Govemment has provided funding assistance to help defray the costs of competitors who attend national titles. Since 1972, financial assistance under this scheme has amounted to $3,807,950. That shakes Oppo­ sition members up a bit. As occurs in sports every five, six or seven years, it becomes Queensland's tum to play host to the Australian championship event and occasionally to host an intemational event. Financial assistance to sport for these purposes has amounted to $765,795. Financial assistance to our State's high-performance athletes, the shop window of sport for both individual athletes and development squads, which was introduced to the scheme just prior to the 1982 Commonwealth Games in Brisbane, has amounted to $2,753,281. The newest measures of the scheme—the regional sports talent assistance grants and grants to State bodies that take their State championships into country areas—which were introduced in 1984, have seen $249,500 and $291,400 respectively allocated to individual athletes and sporting bodies. When a member cites figures such as those, some honourable members become bored and do not take too much interest. As the Temporary Chairman indicated, some members find it very hard to keep awake. However, if members examine those figures they will discover that this great State of Queensland and this great National Party Govemment have supported sport in every electorate in Queensland. Mr Palaszczuk: You have mn out of figures. Mr VEIVERS: No, I have not mn out of figures. All in all, for the information of Mr Palaszczuk, I point out that since 1972, this Govemment has been able to provide $44,226,343 in financial assistance to sport. Mr Vaughan: How would you know that? Mr VEIVERS: Because it is written here and I did the research for it. 1 point out for the information of the mugs on the other side of the Chamber that that is over a period of 16 years. The Queensland Govemment is to be applauded for the magnitude of such funding. This year sees a 6.6 per cent increase in funding to sport to bring the 1988-89 budget up to $5,305,000, which I know will be welcomed by the recognised sporting bodies in this State and by Opposition members. Sporting bodies also appreciate the Govemment's policy of not interfering in their constitutional and executive role of looking after their future and direction. I am sure they would like to see some of this attitude mb off on other Govemments in Australia. Each and every member of this Chamber will be aware of the spread of these important dollars through their own electorates. I know of 15 individual sporting activities which will benefit in my electorate alone, and approval has been given for financial assistance to a value in subsidy payments of $30,531 for junior coaching, and $9,374 in playing- fields development. That means that junior coaching programs to a value of $122,124 and playing-fields development of $46,770 will receive Queensland Govemment assist­ ance. As I have said before, the Queensland Govemment is to be commended for taking Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2209 the lead in this important area of our community way of life and for providing such a meaningful and tangible support scheme for our State's sports people. At this stage, I point out that the Govemment must do more for sport in Queensland than I have outlined so far. Sport and education go hand in hand, and I believe that more grants will have to be made available to young people in far-flung country areas to give them an equal chance of competing. The Govemment is trying to do that, as can be seen from what I have said. However, I feel that somewhere out there are young kids, both female and male, who are natural athletes and who have not yet been seen. If those kids are kept out of an amateur athletics meet at school because the teacher does not like them or for some irrelevant reason, they are lost to sport for ever. I have seen that happen. I am sure that all honourable members are aware of kids losing an advantage for the rest of their lives because of some narrow-minded fool who could look through a key hole with both eyes at the same time who puts a kid aside because he or she is not good at French or cannot understand algebra. It happened in my day. It is very sad. It is important that such attitudes are not perpetuated. Mr Davis interjected. Mr VEIVERS: The honourable member would have to ask the member for Woodridge, Mr D'Arcy, about my scholastic ability. Luckily, I did quite well and got by. I was then able to represent my country, which is a damned sight more than the honourable member could do. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Burreket) Order! This is an Estimates debate. Mr VEIVERS: I was talking about sport, which is something the member for Brisbane Central knows nothing about. He is the goose that laid a very bland egg, not a golden egg. By the end of this financial year, almost $50m will have been distributed to sport throughout this State, from the grassroots level of sport to the State's better performing athletes, who are the gold medal winners Mr Davis: What sport did you represent Australia in? Mr VEIVERS: Marbles. I thank the Minister and his very competent staff. The Education Minister is not in the Chamber at present, but I see that the Minister for Local Govemment and Racing, Mr RandeU, is present. He also is a good Minister. In any event, I thank the Minister for Education for doing a very good job. I am speaking to a Minister who is not even in the Chamber, and through a Temporary Chairman, but I do not mind. I wiU plug on. I thank the Education Minister and his staff for their assistance. As an ex- intemational, I know just how much sport can affect one's life. Quite frankly—and honourable members opposite should listen to this—I probably would not be in this Chamber if I had not represented my country. How lucky members of the Opposition are that I represented my country. Once again I thank the Minister Mr Prest: He's not here; he's not interested. Mr VEIVERS: No, that is not right. The Minister, Mr Littleproud, has acquired his knowledge through his own involve­ ment in cricket. He was a top country cricketer. He knows a bit about sport; how to win and how to lose. He has been a high-level competitor. I must say that he is also a top administrator and that he is doing a great job in his portfolio of Education, Youth and Sport. 2210 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Mr PALASZCZUK (Archerfield) (5.20 p.m.): It gives me great pleasure to rise in this Chamber to speak to the Education Estimates. As a former schoolteacher, with my wide and varied background in education, I firmly beheve that I should make a contribution to this debate. Just as the title of Percy Grainger's sea shanty suggests, I know that I am not on "shallow ground". At the outset I ask aU honourable members to keep in mind one important fact, that is, that 90 per cent of aU knowledge has been acquired in the 43 years since the Second World War. It must also be noted that after the Second World War AustraUa was the leader in computer technology. Honourable members might ask why we as a nation are not at the forefront today in computer technology. The answer unfortunately lies in the lack of foresight in the Govemment of that time. The CSIRO was faced with a choice of either pursuing the development of computer technology or improving cloud-seeding techniques in order to alleviate a cycle of droughts. The then Menzies Govemment gave the nod for the cloud-seeding experimentation, and the rest of course is history. All honourable members would be aware that the rest of the world has outstripped Australia in computer technology, and this country stiU suffers some of the world's worst droughts. I mention this because every person under the age of 45 today will have to come to grips with modem technology, especially computer technology. It is therefore clear that, as we are living in a rapidly changing world, changes in educational needs should also be addressed. With this in mind, a close scmtiny of various types of reference books needs to be undertaken. I cite the example of the most common form of reference book advertised in the press, on television, on radio and at the RNA Show. I refer, of course, to the Encyclopaedia Britannica. With the rapid expansion in the amount of information available today and the lengthy publishing times, such reference books are simply unable to keep up. Most school textbooks are also in that category. It is with that in mind that I support this Govemment's introduction into Queensland high schools of a textbook borrowing system. Incidentally, this provision was always avaUable within the Queensland education system as an altemative to book purchase. It is nothing new at aU. The Inala State High School, in my electorate, had for years pioneered such a textbook lending scheme, and it was very successful. As for aU the other reference books that parents are bludgeoned into buying, I would like to give the foUowing advice: take care. Beware. Look at the date of publication and not at the glossy sales brochures. The price of such books does not reflect the tme value of the information contained in them, especially when the same amount of money invested in computer technology for the home has far more relevance to today's educational needs. It is therefore abundantly clear that one's philosophy on education needs to be reviewed constantly. To that end, changes to the class-room curriculum also need to be reviewed constantly. I believe that curriculum changes are occurring in this State. I agree with the Minister that Queensland is at the forefront when compared with other States. However, I doubt very much whether teachers are able to adapt to those changes satisfactorUy. I say this for one reason, and for one reason alone: the Queensland Govemment, in its penny-pinching ways, does not provide teachers and administrators with the necessary in-service training. Even over the past four years since I left the teaching service, I have noticed a complete restmcture in a number of subject areas, including maths, social studies, science, religious education and the language arts system. I refer mainly to the primary school area because that is the area in which I was involved when I was a schoolteacher. With all those changes, the one concem that is expressed by the teachers involved is the complete lack of in-service training. How can anyone implement these you-beaut new curriculum changes without having adequate preparation beforehand? Another example of the Queensland Govemment's penny-pinching is the operation of the teacher relief scheme. I have been reliably informed by principals that many Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2211 schools in Queensland are beginning to feel the squeeze. That squeeze should not be occurring. Mr Scott: It's a shame. Mr PALASZCZUK: Of course it is a shame. For the benefit of honourable members in this Chamber, I point out that the teacher relief scheme is designed to replace teachers who are absent from school either through illness or for other reasons, including in-service training. The scheme has been cut to a bare minimum. I shall take the example of a large class 2 school in Queensland. For the six months to the end of this year, such a school has been allocated 17 teacher reUef scheme days. Most schools in Queensland have already far exceeded their teacher reUef scheme days. Therefore, the quality of education at those schools wiU be affected. The only way that those schools can replace teachers who are absent is by either doubUng- up classes or having administrators take over. In other words, these class rooms become nothing more than child-minding centres. I shaU cite the example of one school in my electorate. I have been told that since the commencement of the teacher relief scheme, up tiU last Friday the school has had 65 days on which teachers had to be replaced because of iUness. The school has been given its 17 days. That aUocation was exhausted. An extra three days were allocated. The school then received an additional 12 days through the school cluster pool, making a total of 33 days. The rest of the days had to be covered by administrators or by teachers doubUng-up. That is not good enough. The whole scheme needs to be reviewed. The problem has been caused by overzealous public servants whose only goal is to please. During the past year about $lm has been squirreUed away to save on the teacher reUef scheme. To those in power, that might seem to be good management. However, when one examines the schools that are affected, one will see that it is definitely poor management. The scheme has to be reassessed totally. The Minister has to reconsider and, where necessary, remedy the problem. I bring this matter to the attention of honourable members because it has come to my attention that in some schools schoolteachers who have dedicated the whole year to producing Queensland sporting teams of undoubted exceUence are now being denied the opportunity of accompanying their teams to interstate championships. If honourable members placed themselves in the position of those teachers, after hours or after-school, before-school and on week-ends training, with the approval of the regional director, they would find they could then be advised only weeks before the teams leave for the championships that, because of a lack of teacher relief scheme days, they have to remain at school. Mr Campbell: Shame! Mr PALASZCZUK: Shame, indeed! I coiUd cite the case of one teacher in my area who is experiencing the same problem. I do not think that I should name him, for fear of the consequences that he might suffer. As a schoolteacher over the years I have developed a philosophy on education, and at this time I feel it is pertinent to announce that phUosophy. So often today honourable members hear that the child is an agent of his or her own leaming and that the curriculum has to be thought of in terms of activity and experience rather than knowledge to be acquired and facts to be stored. That statement is definitely not out of place in today's world. The source of that statement is the 1931 Hadow report. Another statement that is made is— "It is expected that chUdren will be taught to understand the environment that present day civUisation has created for them to recognise its characteristic changes to the end that they may not only adapt themselves to changed conditions but also 2212 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

develop some feelings as to their responsibility for changing things whenever their time comes." That statement is not out of place in today's world. As a matter of interest, that statement was made in the 1936 Education Department of Westem AustraUa Aims of the Primary School Curriculum. Generations of primary school teachers have grown accustomed to a rather traditional approach to education which kept subjects in their place in blocks of one hour or half an hour's duration. Thank goodness that teachers today, in becoming more flexible, are beginning to emancipate subjects. The reason for that is that, with such rapidly changing leaming environments and subject content, teachers need to help the weak, maintain the average and extend the gifted. For years teachers have been trying to do that in a number of uncertain ways, with mixed results. They have prepared material to keep the bright child purposefully occupied, attempted remedial work before, during and after school for the slow leamers, and given additional work to maintain and strengthen the average child. The proper handling of individual differences amongst children still remains the most challenging problem in education. As honourable members would be aware, children leam through speaking, writing, listening, reading, constmcting and calculating. In the modem class room the emphasis is on active leaming—and so it should be. In a modern class room we should no longer see children sitting for ever in serried rows—passive rows of passive children receiving passive education. Children like to leam together, and to be allowed to do so increases their zest for learning. Because it would not work, I do not advocate in any way the grouping of children for an entire school day. Because of the introduction of modern class room fumiture during the mid seventies, in a matter of seconds a class room can now be rearranged into a group-leaming facility. Therefore, not only can the three Rs be taught correctly, but also children's individual differences and innate desires to inquire can be accommodated. Class size plays a major part in the achievement of those aims. Unfortunately, the State Govemment faUs down badly in that regard. At this time it is not unfair to say that over the years, the National Party Govemment has abrogated its responsibiUty in furthering those aims. I cite the example of the avaUable funding for a typical State school in my electorate, which I am led to believe is no different from any other school in Queensland. An analysis of the effects of cut-backs to that State school reveals the basic injustices of those cut-backs. If I were to go through the table that I have in front of me, I would be able to point out how badly affected that school and, I suggest, the majority of schools in Queensland are affected. According to the table—in 1986 that school had 318 pupils. In 1987 the figure was 308 and in 1988 it was 307. In 1986 the staff was 15 plus one. In 1987 it was 15 plus one and in 1988 it was 12 plus one. The projected number of children for 1989 has decreased by 20, but the staffing has been cut by two, which means that none of those 250 additional teachers that are being put on next year by the State Govemment will help out at that school. As a matter of fact, that school will lose staff. I could continue and talk about classes that are oversized. Mr Littleproud: What's that school? Mr PALASZCZUK: Serviceton State School. Mr Littleproud: You know the staffing for next year already? Mr PALASZCZUK: Yes. Classes at that school are oversized or at the limit. In 1986, no classes at that school were overstaffed and there were no composite classes. The very same situation applied in 1987. However, in 1988, Year 7 has 32 pupils, the Year 6/7 composite class contains 29 pupils, the composite Year 6/5 class has 30 pupUs, the Year 5 class contains 30 pupils, the Year 2 class has 25 pupils and the Year 3/4 composite class contains 25 pupils. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2213

As time is mnning out, I seek leave to have the document incorporated in Hansard. Leave granted. Effects of Cutbacks

1986 1987 1988 Staff: 15 + 1 15 + 1 12 + 1 (Teaching) Class Size Average 20.6 20.6 25.6 (Febmary Enrolment) Classes Oversized or at top Nil Nil 7 —32 limit 6/7 — 29 6/5 — 30 5 —30 2 —25 3/4 — 25 Composite Classes Nil 1 3 Teacher Aid Hours— 80 80 42 General per week Speech Therapist Fortnightly Fortnightly Unknown but no for Semester 1 Year 1 screening Mildly Intellectually 7 No longer recommended for placement at Handicapped Special School, therefore increasing work­ loads and problems for teachers. Swimming Lessons 85/86= 130 86/87 = 87/88 = $490 total children 128 children = 30 children per week

GRANTS General Purpose $56.50 + $3,375 $72.50 + $3,610 $72.50 + $3,610 per child (Sem) per child (Sem) per child (Sem) Art $40 + 49.5c per $43 + .53c per $43 + .53c per child (Sem) chUd (Sem) child (Sem) Physical Education $69 + 34.5c per $74 + .37c per $74 + .37c per child (Sem) child (Sem) child (Sem) Equipment Repair $198 per year $212 per year $212 per year Equipment Safety Check $126 per year $135 per year $135 per year Postage/Petty Cash $142.50 per Sem. $152.50 per Sem. $152.50 per Sem. Library 86/87 $1984 87/88 $1757 Reading and Equip/Materials $600 + $2.84 per pupil Annual Requisition $1457 (318 pupils) $1502 (308 pupUs) $1629 (307 pupils) Mr PALASZCZUK: Another point that I wish to raise in relation to that document is swimming lessons. As the Minister would be aware, the schools in my electorate are very adversely affected in relation to swimming lessons, especially the way in which they are funded. The most glaring indictment of this Govemment is the discrimination against swimming lessons for the students of Serviceton State School. To the end of this calendar year, $490 was aUocated in the Budget towards swimming lessons. In effect, 30 children a week were entitled to swimming lessons. 2214 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

I contrast that to schools such as the Graceville State School, which has a school pool. Every child at that school receives two swimming lessons a week from a physical education teacher and a class teacher. If a child at that school excels in swimming or is interested in swimming, that child is able to join the school swimming club. All expenses that are incurted in the mnning of the Graceville State School are covered by the Department of Education. Even the cost of pool constmction is met with a fifty-fifty subsidy. It is easy for the Education Department to get on its moral high horse and accuse the p. and c. associations in my electorate of not being active enough in fund- raising to provide such facilities. Mr Davis: They haven't got a hope. Mr PALASZCZUK: As the honourable member for Brisbane Central says, they have not got a hope. Because the disposable income of people in my electorate is only 70 per cent of that available to people in other suburbs of Brisbane, one does not have to be an accountant—such as my colleague the honourable member for Caboolture—to realise that Inala and Acacia Ridge suffer a disadvantage. This Govemment's policies aid the greedy and not the needy. Until the beginning of this swimming season, the private Olympic pool at Inala provided schools with a venue for their leam-to-swim classes, at considerable expense to the parents. It is a fact of life that when school students go to private pools for lessons, the cost of bus transport and, in certain cases, pool entry has to be met by parents. Once again I ask honourable members to compare that with the situation relating to the students of Graceville school. The system definitely works against schools in less affluent areas. The problem has to be addressed now. Unfortunately, with the commencement of the swimming season, the Brisbane City Council saw fit not to renew the lease on the Olympic pool at Inala. This cold, cmel and callous action by the Lord Mayor has created a situation which, if it was not so serious, would be farcical. Schoolchildren are now being transported by bus from local schools in Inala to splash pools at Amazons. I ask you, splash pools for swimming lessons! These trips take on the proportions of Burke and Wills' expedition. Some 2'/2 hours of valuable teaching time is set aside so that children can splash around in .6 of a metre of water under the full gaze of the offspring of the mink and manure and barbecue set. This, of course, is the Education Department's attempt to foster excellence in swimming for children in Inala. Under those conditions, even Laurie Lawrence would have problems training champions. The problem is even further exacerbated on week-ends. No swimming venue is available. To the people of Inala, the Lord Mayor and the Premier are the real culprits in this situation. They are the ones who are saying to my children, "Sink or swim."— and sink they will, in the many polluted and dangerous waterholes scattered throughout the area. Let us look at the situation in Acacia Ridge. It is common knowledge that the previous council had on its plans the constmction of an Olympic pool at Acacia Ridge. To this date the Liberal council has not honoured this commitment. Time expired. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Burreket): I caU the honourable member for Glass House. Mr Prest: Come on. Bill. You've got 20 minutes. Sock it to them. Mr NEWTON (Glass House) (5.40 p.m.): I will do it; no trouble at aU. It is a pleasure to be involved in this Estimates debate. I commend the Minister for the initiatives that he has taken in the education of children. I am a member of the Minister's committee. I want to talk about the subsidies that are given to sport. The Caboolture community has an active involvement with sport. Almost every sport is played in Caboolture. It is Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2215 great to see the Govemment subsidising sport. Over the years a large amount of money has been paid to sporting bodies in my area. Earlier the member for Southport mentioned the great athletes who have in some small way been trained and helped by that subsidy. As he mentioned, Queensland has a great Olympian. I want to mention a schoolboy from the Caboolture State High School. He was a member of the school's representative touch football team that went to Caims. I refer to a young chap called David Simpson. I want to put his name on record. He was picked in a Rugby League team to tour New Zealand, where he was awarded the man-of-the-match title. That is a great effort for a young sportsman from the Caboolture State High School. My electorate contains one of the largest high schools in Queensland. It has an enrolment of 1 600 pupils. I know that the Queensland Teachers Union is concemed about this. Although it is nice to represent a growth area, because of that growth problems do occur. The Govemment must site new high schools in the best possible position so that chUdren obtain the best possible education. On Bribie Island the first of a new prototype high school has been built. It will be opened next year. It is coming along very well. Last Thursday night I attended the first p. and c. association meeting for that brand-new high school. It is a very exciting high school because it is modelled on a new standard design which will be the design preferred all over Queensland. Mr Braddy: Irrespective of climate, no doubt? Mr NEWTON: Yes, with due respect to the climate. Bribie Island is a lovely place. The honourable member should come to the island in the sun—Bribie Island. I must say that. , Mr Braddy: WiU you build the same high school whether it is at Bribie Island or Mount Isa? Mr NEWTON: Yes, it will be the same design. It will actually be designed for the climate. I presume that in areas such as Mount Isa it will be air-conditioned. Mr Beard: It has been done, thank you very much. Mr NEWTON: It has been done in Mount Isa, too. I am aware of that because a question was asked in the House about whether it would be air-conditioned. It is good to know that the department sees fit to air-condition schools in those areas. Mr Beard: They designed it to pick up the sea-breezes. Mr NEWTON: I presume so. It is good to know that the department is bringing in the sea-breezes to go through the air-conditioning at Mount Isa. As I said, the high school on Bribie Island is a new design. It will cost $9.4m. That is quite a large amount of tax-payers' money. A new high school was built at Maleny. It has been open for the last two years. It is a credit to the Education Department. Mr Davis: Do you have all classes at Maleny? Mr NEWTON: Right through. Maleny caters for all classes. The school has expanded out of all proportion. Everyone likes the nice outlook from that school and its playground area. It is a credit to the Works Department that it has supplied the faciUties for those students. Mr Davis: Do you know my uncle in Maleny? Mr NEWTON: The member for Brisbane Central has an uncle in Maleny. He is always saying that he is related to Steele Rudd. It now appears that he has a relation in Maleny. It is nice to know that the honourable member knows people in the Maleny area because it is another of the nice tourist areas of Queensland. It is pleasing to know 2216 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) that chUdren are being taught in that area. After they have finished their schooling I hope that they become involved in the tourist industry. In my area I have seen the schools on which the Education Department has expended its funds. The department is not lacking in that regard. The Govemment is trying to keep ahead of things. The issue of class sizes has arisen. I think that is being addressed by the number and placement of the extra teachers who have been put on this year. I am hopefiil that in the years to come the Education Department, under this Minister, is commended for reducing class sizes by the appointment of additional teachers, as has been provided for in the Budget. My smaU contribution to the debate on the Estimates will centre on the Youth and Sport section of the Minister's portfolio. The Rural Youth Organisation was formerly known as the Junior Farmers Organisation, and I wish to inform the Committee of the tremendous contribution made by the organisation to mral communities. Previous speakers on the Govemment side of the Chamber have referred to these matters, but I wish to address matters relating to the training for which the Minister is responsible. Mr Prest: You are supposed to be talking about education. Mr NEWTON: I started to talk about education. As I said, I wish to address my remarks to a minor aspect of the Minister's responsibilities which makes a major contribution to the development of mral youth and leadership in Queensland. I mention also the involvement of National Party members who have had a close association with the organisation. I would not be able to estimate how many Opposition members were members of the Rural Youth Organisation, but a considerable number of Govemment members—particularly the Govemment Whip, who was the ABC's mral youth of the year in 1958, and the Minister, who was involved in the Dulacca club—have been involved in the organisation. I also was involved in the club at Caboolture and I hold the honour of the Golden Plough Award for community services. Mr Davis: You were a Golden Plough recipient? Mr NEWTON: I joined the organisation in 1955 and I must say that what I have leamed during my years of involvement with the Rural Youth Organisation have set me up in community affairs. Mr Prest: We could call you the Rat Pack. Mr NEWTON: The Minister, the Govemment Whip and I uphold a higher standard than the Rat Pack because we have been involved in the Rural Youth Organisation and have played our part in the community very well. The organisation is a training-ground for introducing people into community affairs and activities. For 27 years, I was associated with a local fmit-growers' association, which is an unbeatable primary industries group. My involvement in that association stemmed from my involvement with the Rural Youth Organisation and the Royal National Association. Mr Davis: Where do they stand in regard to Boy Scouts? Mr NEWTON: Boy Scouts have a part to play, but the Rural Youth Organisation operates on a higher plane. Mr Prest: What about the new terminology now—what do they call them now? Mr NEWTON: It is called the Rural Youth Organisation. Mr Prest: No, the Boy Scouts. Mr NEWTON: I wiU not go into that, because it is a different subject. The Minister is responsible for the Duke of Edinburgh Award Scheme also, but I wish to highUght some of the tremendous community projects engaged in by the Rural Youth Organisation. The organisation is committed to the development of leadership skills. Programs of a week's duration have been developed to assist people in public speaking and debating and, for the ladies in the group, dress-making and deportment classes are conducted. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2217

Mr Davis: Did you do the dress-making classes, too? Mr NEWTON: No, but I often attend the dress-making award presentations and have admired the nice outfits that the girls have presented. Not enough credit is given to the organisation for the exhibiting skills that it develops in young people. Training programs bring young people out of their shell. Mr Beard: If Mr Prest were honest, he would say that he watches them, too. Mr NEWTON: I suppose he would. The Rural Youth Organisation plays a major role in enabling young people to develop into better community leaders. Enormous benefit is derived by members of the organisation who attend welding workshops and various classes that are offered. The organisation also devotes a great deal of time to training people to compile exhibits for agricultural shows. The exhibits are a worthy attraction at shows displaying the produce of a mral district. Local mral communities also display produce in exhibits at the Royal National Association's show, which is one of the biggest exhibitions held in Queensland. I hope that the honourable member for Port Curtis makes time to attend his local show. Mr Davis: I always go. Mr NEWTON: The honourable member for Brisbane Central attends the Brisbane Exhibition and I would be willing to bet that he enjoys inspecting the exhibits created by young children. The exhibits are all the result of the training that enables children to show fmit and produce in the best possible way. They require a great deal of work. I give credit to all the young people who, either as leaders or as members, involve themselves in exhibits that are displayed at agricultural shows. As I said earlier, I have been involved with rural youth since 1955 and I have never missed a Brisbane Exhibition during that period. I have also attended ceremonies for the presentation of prizes and have noted increased self-esteem and close friendships which are benefits derived by the exhibitors. The Rural Youth Organisation brings young people together, not only in country areas but also in city clubs that undertake the activities I have mentioned. Mr Prest: What about the primary school project clubs? Don't they do a wonderful job? They are like mral youth. Mr NEWTON: Primary school project clubs are the foremnner of the Rural Youth Organisation. Mr Prest: They are raising money for their schools. Mr NEWTON: Agriculture is an area of keen interest for people in Queensland. It is good to know that those project clubs raise money for schools. I have been very interested in the club associated with the school that I attended, the Morayfield State School. It is nice to know that the honourable member for Port Curtis is involved in those groups because, as I have said, they train young people to be involved in community affairs. I am pleased that the Opposition has a spokesman who is involved in the activities of mral youth. The organisation is also conducting contests engaged in by overseas exchange members. Queensland members who travel to overseas countries could be regarded as ambassadors for mral communities throughout this State. An exchange of information on various life-styles is of interest to most people and I wish to cite an article about a visitor from Canada called Terri Jackson who lived in Queensland for six months as an overseas exchange member. The article states— "My final visit to Queensland hosts was full of new and different things. The tropical fmits and vegetables were endless—many I never heard of or seen ever before. How I wish I had an avocado or lemon tree in my back yard. Never take

81405—76 2218 8 November 1988 Privilege

these things for granted, Queenslanders. The chances I had, like mustering cattle (at home we just call the cattle, they come, believe it or not) exploring an open-pit coal mine, watching a black rock become a beautiful sapphire, cuddling koalas, touring distilleries, talking to schools and clubs about "home", visiting Great Keppel Island." Those things stuck in that person's mind when visiting Queensland on overseas exchange. The same applies to Queensland's mral youth when they are sent overseas. It promotes self-esteem and brings out the best in children. I started the fat steer contests held at the local shows in my electorate and at the RNA Show. I have had a great deal of involvement in those contests. On the first Wednesday of the RNA Show it is spectacular to see the children tending their animals and parading them before the judges and the people. Young children get a great deal of benefit from finding out how the animals are cared for and seeing who wins a prize. Mr Simpson: It is a leaming process. Mr NEWTON: Yes, it is a leaming process and this Govemment wishes to see it continue. The RNA Show is a show-piece for all Queenslanders and the winning fmit and vegetable exhibit was shown by an ex-member of the Junior Farmers from my district. The winning exhibit was a magnificent display. In addition, the local club at Caboolture put on a fmit and vegetable display at Expo and I have recently read the report in Landmark magazine. Many other clubs from all over Queensland helped the Caboolture Shire put on the display at Expo and showed their pioneering spirit. It is hard to believe that a few weeks ago Expo was a bustling area. The members of my club displayed the fmit known as the custard apple at Expo and many people had never tasted it. Many American visitors to Expo were thankful to have the chance to try some of those fmits. It is good to know that these fmits are grown in Queensland through the efforts of the people involved in the Rural Youth movement. Many young people living in towns may not have access to farms, and reciprocal club visits and displays help those people leam about those products. Again it is a leaming process because the products can be seen at first hand on the trees. The State president of the Rural Youth Organisation, Julia Neale made a statement in Landmark. It is a great quote and should be included in Hansard. She states— "Unless you stick your neck out you will never rise above the crowd. It is almost seen as acceptable in today's society to sit back and wait for someone else to do the work. If we all did this, nothing would ever get done. We as individuals, our communities and our society would never develop or progress beyond its current level. Rural Youth offers every member the chance to do almost anything which will help us as individuals to develop and which in tum will help our communities progress. Rural Youth provides us with the means, the resources and assistance. From here we have to take up the challenge. Only in the dictionary does success come before work. So what are you waiting for? Take up the challenge. If you want to see beyond the crowd—stick your neck out and get a better view." That shows what can be gained by being involved in a club. Over the years the Minister and many members on the Govemment side of the Chamber have been involved in this organisation. Debate intermpted.

PRIVILEGE Disclosure and Publication of Name of Drug Informer Hon. P. J. CLAUSON (Redlands—Minister for Justice and Attomey-General) (5.58 p.m.): I rise on a matter of privilege. I refer to the statement by the member for Wolston this morning. I would draw the attention of the Chamber to the provisions of section Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2219

46(2) of the Dmgs Misuse Act 1986-1987, which provides that a person who discloses the name of an informer or any other particular that may be likely to lead to his identification is guilty of a crime. The punishment for this crime is imprisonment with hard labour for five years. Whilst the comments of the member for Wolston within this Chamber may be the subject of absolute privilege, the publication of such comments by the media outside this Chamber may subject the media to the risk of an offence against the Dmgs Misuse Act. At the same time, the publication may also constitute a contempt of court.

SUPPLY Estimates-in-Chief, 1988-89 Education, Youth and Sport Department of Education Debate resumed. Mr NEWTON (Glass House) (5.59 p.m.): In summary, I thank the Minister for his involvement in Rural Youth. I have been elected as the chairman of a committee that will revamp the Rural Youth Organisation in order to discover ways in which the Govemment can assist it. I hope that the committee will be able to prepare its final report by early next year. I thank the Minister for extending to me the privilege of being involved in this committee. Sitting suspended from 6 to 7.30 p.m. Mr BEARD (Mount Isa—Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party) (7.30 p.m.): On a day on which the Estimates of the Education, Youth and Sport portfolio are under debate, at the outset I have to confess that I was a little disappointed to hear one of the better educated—on paper, at any rate—members of the Govemment, the member for Mansfield, seize the opportunity to launch a couple of attacks on the Liberal Party. I thought he might have been more interested in the more positive aspects of the Education, Youth and Sport portfolio, but I guess the abnormal switch that he had to do ovemight in blind, unthinking adherence from one Premier to another and from one Minister for Education to another has created paranoia in him to the extent that he has to talk about the visits of members of the Liberal Party to his electorate and what the Liberals are doing in trying to get a fair share of the education budget for Queensland. Fortunately I find the Minister for Education quite different. At the outset I say that I believe the Minister is genuinely trying to come to grips with the problems of a billion-dollar department that still has difficulties meeting all of its obligations. The Education, Youth and Sport portfolio is such a critical one that even in a State such as Queensland with two and a-half miUion people, it seems that everything cannot be done with $1.3 biUion, which I think is the extent of the budget. I certainly wish the Minister well. He is a former schoolteacher who comes from the country and I think he has the interests of the State at heart. I certainly acknowledge some of his initiatives. I am pleased to see the initiative on what I call permanent part- time teachers, to which he referred in the presentation of his Estimates earlier today. I also note the initiative with respect to schools of distance education. As I come from Mount Isa, I find that most attractive, particularly the fact that, when resources become available, the School of the Air will become one of the schools of distance education. I am pleased to see initiatives in special-education services. Certainly, what comes up tmmps is the air-conditioning of schools. I cannot complain, with the air-conditioning of three schools in my electorate, including one of the biggest contracts in the State for $600,000 or $700,000 for the air-conditioning of the Kalkadoon State High School. There are also two small air-conditioning contracts 2220 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) for pre-schools in my electorate, at the Central State School and the Barkly Highway State School. Apart from TAFE, which I guess is a different story, that leaves in my electorate only the Camooweal State School still to be air-conditioned and I certainly commend that to the Minister and his colleague the Minister for Public Works for their consideration next year. I also acknowledge what the Minister said in his speech about the need for language- teaching in primary schools. I cannot speak too highly of this concept. It is one of my favourite topics and I hope to come back to it later. He also referred to the scarcity in the pool of maths/science teachers. Acknowledging problems is the first step towards dealing with them. So I believe the Minister is trying to lift the education game in Queensland. Of course, every Minister is a target for criticism and I have my criticisms of what this Minister is trying to do as well. Certainly in principle I support his plans to devolve down to the local areas the decision-making process on such important topics as curriculums, staffing, budgeting, etc. I am a great believer in decentralisation and in responsibUity and authority being devolved down to where the work is being done and where the ideas are being generated; but I must confess that I find it quite startling that he seeks to implement this at the beginning of next year, even in a limited fashion. It is very sudden; it is very quick. Why next year? What is the hurry? I imagine that an announcement that it was to be done within a certain time period and a coincident commencement of training, planning and preparation for it would have been a good way to go. It is probably the biggest single change in education for many years. In many areas it is converting headteachers, who in effect are directors of teaching or directors of education, into managers, bursars and administration managers, and I am not sure whether very many of them are equipped to do that. Certainly when I was a schoolteacher many years ago—I had 11 years' teaching in my career in the 1950s and 1960s Mr Booth: Don't tell me you were a teacher, too? Mr BEARD: There are plenty of former teachers in this place. There must be something that leads us here. Perhaps it has something to do with standing up and acting on the floor. In my experience I found many headteachers who could not manage a tuck-shop account. I am not saying they all could not do it, but certainly it is not necessarily their natural forte. I believe that there will now be two distinct cores in education, one in teaching and the other in administration. Perhaps in the future, at least in the larger schools, there will be a director of teaching and a school manager, both peers reporting to the regional director of education. Until the stage is reached when they are trained and ready to take over the administrative function, I fear there will be some great problems. Certainly the feed­ back I have been getting locally and elsewhere is that not all headmasters or p. and c. associations are quite ready for this and face it with some little fear that they may not yet be able to handle it. They would certainly like a lot more training, a lot more preparation and a lot more groundwork to be done. I would think that teaching principals would scarcely have the time. As a matter of fact, teachers in general are already flat out. I have never seen a profession or class that works so hard and has so much responsibility as teachers. In the recent couple of weeks I closed a literacy seminar, which was held over a week-end in Mount Isa and for which 50 or 60 teachers from the region gave up their week-end to attend. I attended the presentation of certificates for an ELIC course. Teachers had been attending that course in their own time for many weeks. I have seen at first hand within my family teachers preparing at night, not for half an hour as I used to do in the 1950s, but for two and three hours. I have seen them being called in on pupil-free days during leave and so forth. Teachers nowadays, above all else, need more resources. I would even venture to say that some of them might say that they need resources more than they need increases Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2221 in salary, although that would be a risky path to take. They certainly need more resources. One is the provision of teacher aides. Last year's Budget greatiy reduced teacher-aide hours. As a matter of fact, 82 per cent of Queensland children were in schools that experienced cuts in teacher-aide hours. This year I am pleased to see that the Budget provided for a smaU increase in teacher-aide hours, but it applies, it seems to me, to the very small schools with fewer than 36 pupils. Teacher aides are not the only resources that teachers need. They need much more professional help and resources in what they are trying to do. Having opened with those few lines in a 20-minute speech to this debate, I must say that I cannot cover all the sorts of things that I would have liked to cover in the education field, but in the time remaining I shall refer to three or four education topics that 1 believe still require much attention. Earlier today the Committee heard a bit of talk about an incentive transfer scheme for teachers. A popular subject for many, many years has been: how do we get not only teachers but also all professionals and all public servants to accept postings to the more remote areas of the State? As a former branch secretary of the Queensland Teachers Union, I coped with this in the mid and late-fifties when this problem was considered in Mount Isa. One of the first problems was to try to define a remote area or an area of disabUity. It was pointed out to us in no uncertain terms that there were teachers within half an hour or an hour's drive of Brisbane—in the Brisbane Valley, the Lockyer Valley or somewhere—who, if remoteness was measured on certain criteria, were as remote from Brisbane as they would be in Mount Isa. We always ran aground on how to define remoteness, quality of life or disabilities. Money does not seem to be the answer. Many people believe that money will solve all problems. They believe that, if people are paid enough, they wiU do almost anything. That is tme to a certain degree. People will put up with a lot if the money is right. However, I am talking about professional people. The Education Department must take a leaf from the book of private enterprise, which for many years, particularly in the mining, agricultural and pastoral industries, has had to cope with attracting and retaining workers, including many professional people, to many superficially unattractive or remote parts of Australia. One has to do some lateral thinking and has to think about providing accommodation. If a person wishes to move to a remote area for the sake of his or her career development, we should not make it so unattiactive that he or she has to pay an extortionate amount for accommodation or has to live in what can only be described as substandard accommodation. There is a lack of professional contact in many remote areas. Teachers who teach in remote areas should be helped to attend at least one professional seminar a year away from the place at which they are teaching. The Govemment should look at what various mining companies do and give the teachers and their families holidays once a year to their home town or to the capital city. They should certainly have the promise of a favourable transfer on the next occasion. We should not exclude a subsidy on medical treatment for their families, if it is necessary that they have to move away or go somewhere to receive that medical treatment. All of those things and others are done by private industry. There is no reason why the public service in general—not merely teachers, but other professions within the pubhc service—should not look at those initiatives. Otherwise, we are cheating the people who live in the west of the professional services they need and, on top of that, we are cheating our public servants and professional people of the experience of working and living amongst some very fine people in the remote areas of this State. I am pleased to see that while I was saying many of those things I was receiving some approving nods from both sides of the Chamber. I do not believe that I am saying anything that is going against the grain of either the National Party or the Labor Party, or certainly of the Liberal Party. We must grope with these problems if we want to be fair dinkum with education. 2222 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Another topic that I would like to discuss is the subject of discipline. Discipline in its purest sense does not mean thumping someone into insensibility so that he listens to what he is being told and takes notice of what is being said. In my definition, discipline means a wiUingness to follow and a willingness to listen and to come along. This year in Mount Isa I am aware of two serious assaults on teachers by pupils. In the first case, a female teacher was knocked to the ground and punched several times while she was on the ground by a rather large boy in front of the class. The teacher subsequently pressed charges, and I believe that she should have. The boy came to court, he was defended by legal aid and he received a smack on the wrist. The court was told that he was an unlucky boy, an unfortunate boy and that he had a terrible home life, all of which I grant. In the second case, the principal of a school was hit and suffered some damage from a boy. The principal chose not to press charges because he believed that he could talk the boy out of doing such things in the future. It has long been a belief of mine that children, above all else, hate ambiguity. They hate uncertainty. Children appreciate certainty. They work well and comfortably with certainty. They Uke to know where the dividing line is up to which they can go and beyond which they know they are in trouble. They get very confused and upset if that line is moved from day to day, so that a teacher today refuses to aUow what he allowed yesterday and they wonder why they are in trouble. In our society nowadays there are so many people saying what we should do. They say, "Let your hair down. Let it all hang out. Do this, do that. We must excuse this particular child because of his home life.", or whatever else. In that case the children are confused about what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. In the Education Department we must grapple with that, and encourage and support our teachers to lay down what is an acceptable dividing line. Any kid, knowing that quite clearly, who passes that dividing line must certainly accept whatever is coming to him once he steps beyond it. If that comes down to corporal punishment in response to a physical attack, so be it. So long as they all know the mles and they know what will happen if they exceed them, they will live comfortably with those mles, and dare I say that the expectations of acceptable behaviour might even spread beyond the class room into the world beyond, and it might do us all quite a bit of good. The most successful teachers whom I have ever seen have made sure that the first thing they did in their class room was establish what was expected: what they wanted, what they would accept and what they would not accept. Once that is clearly laid down, the fun, the enjoyment, the leaming and the development flow easily afterwards. It is only kids who are confused and uncertain about what a teacher will accept who have difficulty with leaming. I move on to another topic—Australia's present and future. I am concemed—I do not lay this fault at the feet of teachers; I lay it at the feet of our society in general— that we are losing sight of what we are all about in education. To illustrate what I mean, I wiU refer to my concern for the expenditure on a national scale in the area of research and development. In America and Japan, people working in the area of research and development operate on 30-year time horizons. In other words, they are given money, they are supported and they are allowed to examine things in their own area of expertise which may or may not in the long term lead to some eventual discovery or invention which will be a great money-spinner for themselves and for their country. In Australia, unfortunately, nowadays, despite the fact that in the not too distant past we led the world in research and development, particularly in primary industries, we are slipping back. Nowadays, money will be spent on research and development only if it will retum a doUar tomorrow. A recent Four Corners program talking about the cut-backs in the CSIRO budget illustrated that point most forcefully. I was pleased to see that the Labor Minister in charge of that area, Mr Barry Jones, was very concemed, but it seems he has no say in the Federal Labor Cabinet. He has no power whatsoever. He has no department and he has no budget; therefore he cannot do anything about it. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2223

Within our schools we see that reflected in a certain way by a willingness to take the easy options, the subjects which are fun. I am not knocking them in their own right; they add to the quality of life. But we see an unwillingness to take the hard subjects, generally in the science, mathematics and technology areas. We certainly see an unwillingness in the area of foreign languages. As a classic example, when I was reading the Sunday Mail last week-end, I read an article by Gregory Clark, who lives in Japan and lectures in Japanese. Part of that article stated— "Canberra likes to boast about the Japanese language boom that is supposed to be sweeping Australia. But thousands of children leaming Japanese in schools is meaningless unless it is followed up by intensive study, either at a university or in Japan. Most Australian universities stiU don't take Japan very seriously: Japan studies at the ANU in Canberra have been controlled largely by people who don't even speak Japanese.

Australia needs a scheme to get young Australians into Japan for concentrated work and language experience before they drift off into other pursuits." That article commenced by saying that Australia's relationship with Japan is in a malaise, that the Japanese are no longer interested in us. Australia has never yet appointed an ambassador to Japan who speaks Japanese. The United Kingdom, New Zealand and the United States have all done so. If we treat Japan as a second-class nation and the Japanese language as a second- class language that is not worth leaming, we are in big trouble. As everybody knows, Australia's economic future is tied up so intimately with Japan that we cannot afford to do these sorts of things. Yet inteUigent children are being allowed to go through school without being taught a second language. The teaching of languages must be started in primary schools. It should be made a fun thing. Young kids leam languages faster than they leam to play marbles. Older kids in secondary school find it a chore. They find it onerous. They do not particularly like it. They see no reason for it. Young kids pick up languages as a part of everyday leaming. That must be followed through. Scholarships must be awarded to students to visit Japan and other countries so that students can live in another country, leam the language and become experts in it. I have first-hand knowledge of people in the Australian diplomatic service being posted to German-speaking countries after attending a summer school in German at the ANU in Canberra. They do five or six weeks of fun German before they are transferred to Austria or Germany to represent this country. They should not get within a bull's roar of a German-speaking country unless they are fluent in the German language and, what is more, in the German culture. That goes for every language and every culture. We are so arrogant in this country, demanding that everyone speak English. Business delegations and Government delegations are sent to Japan with one Japanese-speaking person, a very humble person, the lowest-paid person, who is an interpreter only. Where are the leaders of these delegations who speak the Japanese language? I get very emotional about this because I love this country and I see it going downhill. This is a failure of our Education Departments. The Govemment should start bringing foreign-language teachers to this State, from overseas if necessary, to teach our kids languages. I cannot speak too strongly about it. As I have only a couple of minutes left, I want to deal with one or two other topics. Problems are being experienced in our special schools. Before I refer to them, 1 pay a tribute to the Minister and his department for pushing through fairly quickly the approval to purchase a bus for the Mount Isa Special School. 2224 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

The Quota Club, a ladies business club in Mount Isa, had set out to buy a bus for the special school in Mount Isa. It was to cost $22,000. The club raised $11,000 inside a year. The ladies then wrote to the Breakwater Island Casino in Townsville after they heard that it becomes involved in charities and will help people out. The Breakwater Island Casino sent back a cheque for $ 11,000. I extend my appreciation to the casino. The club then unexpectedly had the $22,000. It then had the bus sitting on the floor of a show room in Mount Isa, but it still had to obtain approval from the Education Department to buy it. The request was made. It was not granted within a week, but it was granted within a month. I understand the way things go, and I acknowledge that. Within the last couple of years the Endeavour Foundation children were transferred into State schools. In many ways that was a wonderful thing. It was a way of moving these handicapped, disadvantaged people into the mainstream of Australian life. However, some grossly handicapped children who were being looked after by the Endeavour Foundation were moved into special schools around the State which just could not handle grossly handicapped children. I am talking about children who are practically vegetables in the things that they can and cannot do. In some cases of which I am aware these children were taken from the special schools and admitted to specialist schools in Brisbane. They were taken away from their families in the west. In one case that I want to talk about—and it is representative of many—the parents cannot easily get to see their child, who is now in Brisbane. They cannot get the child back home because fares are not subsidised and they are not helped by the Government on the grounds that they could, if they wished, leave their chUd at the special school in Mount Isa. If they elect to send the child to Brisbane, they must pay the fares to go and see the child. When a family have suffered the disability of raising such a child and been put to the attendant expenses, that is quite unfair. I am pleased to say that a submission that I made on behalf of that particular family did result in their receiving a special grant of one fare per year to enable them to see their grossly handicapped child in Brisbane, for which I am very grateful. I put it to the Minister that in cases such as that, involving grossly handicapped children, there should be a lot more generosity in allowing personal contact—physical contact— between children who must be in Brisbane and parents who must be in remote areas. I could go on—who couldn't—when speaking about education, youth and sport. However, I hope that I have been able to highlight a couple of the more critical points that I am personally concerned about. I commend the Minister for what he is trying to do. He has a difficult job. However, I think there is still much more to be done, and a re-examination of some of the priorities would bear great fmit. Mrs McCAULEY (Callide) (7.50 p.m.): I am pleased to join in this Estimates debate. I pay tribute to the Minister, who has been very calmly and capably administering a portfolio that has always been a difficult one. Education is an area in which everyone is an expert. People have been through the system, and they all have an opinion about what they expect and what they do not expect from our education system. In the Callide electorate there are, I think, 36 schools—it could be 35 or 37, but I believe it is 36—which are spread over a very wide area. Those schools vary in size, of course. My electorate has some very small schools as well as quite a few large ones. On the whole, the schools in the Callide electorate lack very little. A few months ago I saw on television that in a school in New South Wales the teachers took the children out of the school, and taught them on the school oval because great pieces of the school were falling off and they felt that it was dangerous. I do not think that that has ever happened in Queensland. Mr Braddy: It happened in Rockhampton. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2225

Mrs McCAULEY: It was not in Rockhampton; it was definitely in Sydney somewhere. I believe that the only blot on the capital works area is the matter of toilets. I want to refer to the toilets at a particularly small school in my electorate, that is the Dalma school, which next year celebrates 50 or 75 years of existence. I think it is one of only two schools in Queensland that have primitive toilet facilities. Hopefully, that problem will be solved. The Works Department has promised me that that school will have new toilets next year in time for the celebrations. I certainly hope that that wiU happen. Education fared very well in the recent State Budget. I really believe that the amount of money spent on education bears absolutely no relationship to the quality of education. I do not beUeve that there is any relationship at all between spending a lot of money and providing reaUy good education. It was interesting to note the increased aUocations that have been made in the State Budget, which provides for an aUocation of $1.3 billion to the portfolio of Education, Youth and Sport. That will provide for an additional 522 teachers, which is an increase of 2.04 per cent and exceeds the forecast enrolment growth of 1.22 per cent by July 1989. An excellent scheme that has been the subject of some controversy is the new school grants scheme. The proposed injection of an extra $10m a year represents a 50 per cent increase on last year's allocation. The scheme will involve the consultation of parents and p. and c. organisations on the way in which the money will be spent. The scheme is a very good innovation. Queensland's lead in computer use in State schools is to be maintained through a $20m technology enchancement program over three years. At the moment in Brisbane, 82 of the 89 electorate secretaries are leaming how to use computers to their greatest advantage. To have that technology and the leaming facilities available in a field that is becoming almost compulsory can only help Queensland's education system. As to higher education—I was very pleased to note that $5m will be spent to allow more young Queenslanders to attend universities and colleges of advanced education. Recently I read some remarks made by the Federal member for Hinkler, Mr Courtice, about the changes to higher education. In the Gladstone Observer, Mr Courtice was reported as lauding the changes to higher education as being really good for the Gladstone area. He pointed out how Queenslanders would benefit and how many more opportunities would be presented for tertiary education. Mr Courtice does not know what he is talking about. As an extemal student of the University of Queensland since 1980, I can only say that people like me, who are trying to obtain a degree through distance study, will be disadvantaged far more than they are at present. I was interested to find out what the University of Queensland was going to do as far as extemal students were concemed. I wrote to the vice-chancellor and received a reply that Queensland University will not seek to become a distance education centre. In an extemal studies newsletter, the Director of External Studies, John Chick, said that the university did not know what the consequences of being a designated or a non-designated centre of distance education would be. He said that even the financial implications are obscure. What he did know, however, was that, in future, extemal places will be funded at a lower level than intemal places. I guess that that says it all. I do not beUeve that people like me should be disadvantaged. In fact, anyone who has not had the opportunity of attending university following a high school education or someone who seeks to further his education should be able to do so without suffering the trauma that he must undergo at present. I was quite happy to pay the $250 or $260 fee when it was introduced last year. As I was studying only one subject, I thought that it was very expensive. However, next year when the fee is changed and it becomes a pro rata payment—a graduate tax, or whatever it is—it will cost me at least double that. That then becomes a very expensive way to fiirther one's education. Moreover, the choice of subjects becomes narrower. 2226 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Mr Scott: It's a bit like what this Govemment requires of parents and citizens associations. Mrs McCAULEY: I point out to the honourable member that the Federal Gov­ ernment is solely and wholly to blame for this. Mr Scott: It is disgusting. Mr McCAULEY: It is disgusting. The Federal Government should get its act together. Mr Dawkins is the man to speak to on this matter. The choice of subjects becomes narrower and a person cannot study in a specialised area the subject that he needs to leam in the year in which he wants to learn it. Therefore, he must wait two or three years before he can pick up that subject again. That is most unfortunate. Those are the types of disadvantages that people like me will have to face. Mr Courtice did not know what he was talking about when he said, "We will all benefit." We wiU not all benefit! Non-Govemment schools are to be given a 9.5 per cent increase in total allocations of per capita grants, with individual grants increasing by 2 per cent in real terms for the next three years. I welcome that. Three non-Govemment schools are located in my electorate: St Joseph's Convent in Biloela, the Redeemer Lutheran school in Biloela, and the St Paul's Convent in Gracemere, which was opened last week-end. All of those schools provide quality education. I believe firmly that parents should have that choice available to them. For that reason it is important that the Govemment continues to support non-Govemment schools. Some parents feel very strongly about sending their children to such schools. That choice is good and they certainly should be allowed to have it. Yesterday on my way to Gladstone 1 went down the Boyne Valley and visited three very small schools in that area. It was interesting to read in the Budget overview that the teacher aide allocation for primary schools with enrolments of fewer than 36 is to be increased. In small schools, teachers are required to teach a variety of grades of different ages and class sizes. The teacher has to do everything and be everything. In those schools teacher aides are probably more important than they are in bigger schools. An increase in aide hours for those teachers in smaller schools will be of great benefit, particularly in areas in which the parents cannot always be involved because of the distance from the school. Owing to financial constraints, the allocation of teacher aide hours in primary and secondary schools was rationalised from the begining of the 1988 school year. As a teacher aide for nearly four years when my youngest child started school, I welcome this move. The little school at which I was a teacher's aide was a class 3 school, which had a teaching principal. The school had three teacher aides. I was the only full-time employee; the other two teacher aides were part-time employees. One of those teacher aides spent a great deal of time sleeping in the staff room because she just did not have enough work to do. I welcomed the rationalisation of teacher aide hours; it was long overdue. I firmly believe that education quality will not suffer as a result of that rationalisation. The Government should very keenly consider those aspects. Mr Beard: The teachers won't agree with you on that one. Mrs McCAULEY: I know that they will not agree with me. I am speaking from experience. The Callide electorate, which has 36 schools, has a large number of school buses. From 1 November there was a rise of 5.6 per cent in the subsidy, which I welcome. The Minister would be aware that that increase is probably not enough to help some people. In the future we may be faced with the spectre of somehow having to get our children to school in some other way because the buses will be uneconomic to operate and the services will cease. That is a big problem in country areas. When responsible people in my electorate—people who are not greedy or grafters—tell me that they have Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2227 big problems in making ends meet with their school bus mns, I start to worry. 1 know that the Minister wiU be considering that aspect. In fact, this week he is meeting some school bus operators. I hope that something positive wiU come out of that. The Department of Education recognises that the education system must accept the challenge that the future represents and ensure that education is future oriented. The relationship between education, society and the economy is complex and subject to constant change. Schools are certainly expected to produce technicaUy skiUed manpower, but they are expected to do much more than that. Because the community expects schools to tum out young men and women who are good citizens, creative, sensitive and sociable, who possess certain values and attitudes and have acceptable notions of parenthood, family, religion and society, the community demands that schools concem themselves with the total development of personality. However, I firmly beUeve that we must not expect teachers to be parents. We must instil many of those things in our children. We cannot expect teachers to teach our children the basic values with which we want them to grow up. We can only expect teachers to perhaps reinforce those values. A 1988 Organisation of Economic and Cultural Development report from the Centre of Educational Research and Innovation claimed that, in terms of pattems of life, individuals will be unlikely to have one job for life; that they will need to be more mobUe, capable of creating or responding to the need for flexible working, social and living pattems, and need to make use of new technologies and techniques. The report states that they will probably be likely to experience periods of unemployment and will need to be able to use such periods creatively to originate work or engage in other activities. For that reason extra facets of the educational system should be encouraged. One of those facets relates to my electorate, namely, the Boyne Island Field Study Centre, to which I took the Minister earlier this year. That centre is an excellent establishment which was set up in May 1977 by the Queensland Department of Education on the old site of the Boyne Island State School. The centre is designed to provide a leaming base for both pupils and teachers from primary and secondary schools for short-term field experience; a teaching resource centre concentrating on materials and aids to help visiting teachers by providing expertise on local issues through the centre's permanent staff; and a learning centre for schools, supplying resource back-up study of the surrounding area. The subjects that children can leam while attending the Boyne Island Field Study Centre include ecology studies. As honourable members would be aware, that centre is by the sea. The area contains mangroves and many other salt-water regions that chUdren can study in depth. Other subjects include animal studies and urban studies, because the centre is situated close to the highly urbanised area of Gladstone. Because it is close to a lot of heavy industries, including the smelter of Queensland Alumina, the power station and the port of Gladstone, industry is another subject that is taught at the centre, together with geomorphology and marine studies. The Boyne Island Field Study Centre does an excellent job. It caters not only for the Callide electorate but also for a broad area of central Queensland. An additional 522 teachers will be employed in 1988-89 to provide employment growth within the education system, to cater for students with special needs and to increase the number of guidance, advisory and specialist teachers. In the future, decisions about school-staffing will be made by school administrators and staff in consultation with parents and citizens associations. As I said before, I welcome that move. Mr Scott: Will they be managers or educators? Mrs McCAULEY: The aim is a flexible staffing policy with a mix of staff that is appropriate to specific school needs. In answer to the honourable member's interjection—Mr Scott's electorate is very well serviced educationally. I have visited his electorate and seen some of the lovely new schools there. His electorate needs very little. 2228 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

The improved use of staff is to be achieved on a non-cost basis. In the near future, selected schools will be invited to participate in a pilot program that will be conducted next year. Each pilot school will soon be allocated its staffing complement. In consultation with the p. and c. associations, each pilot school will then consider its staffing needs in relation to its goals and priorities, which wiU vary with different schools. In time, that will be incorporated in a school development plan. The principal will negotiate with the regional office cost-neutral variations from its initial allocation. Hopefully that will provide for small schools such as the Rosedale school in my electorate, which caters for students from pre-school to Year 12 and is desperately in need of an administration assistant. The flexibility that is provided to schools might enable a range of decisions to be made about factors such as a mix of staff of various categories that is required to meet local needs, class sizes, non-contact time, intemal relief and other problems of that sort that principals face. They will have a broader range and more flexibility. For example, cluster school arrangements have been formed for the more effective deployment of staff and the gaining of access to specialist and support teachers, who are being used more and more. It is interesting that graduates with qualifications in mathematics, science, Japanese and Chinese will be employed as a matter of priority by the Education Department. It is pleasing that Queensland is taking very seriously the need to provide more education in those areas. Unfortunately, for some years the available pool of mathematics and/or science teachers has not been sufficient to meet the department's needs. For that reason the standards of entry for training in those subjects are lower than for other subjects. I feel that has some bearing on the reason why the teachers who are needed for those subjects that I have just mentioned are not available. Perhaps consideration could be given to that. The recommendations for the recmitment of students into mathematics and science teacher education have been taken up by the Board of Teacher Education in its 1987 report Project 21: Teachers for the 21st Century. Arising from the recommendations of that report, the Minister for Education, Youth and Sport has endorsed the setting up by the board of a working party to seek ways of promoting the image of the teaching profession with a view to attracting a higher proportion of more able students into teaching, including mathematics and science teaching. Education is a very broad field. It is a very complex field. As I said before, everyone is an expert. I have touched on only a very few areas. I am quite surprised to find that my time has almost expired. I could continue to speak for a long time. I hope the points that I have made are valid, and I know that the Minister is interested in them. As I said before, I feel that in this very difficult area, education, he is doing an excellent job. Mr ARDILL (Salisbury) (8.09 p.m.): The two areas that are of most concem to me as a member of Parliament and particularly as the member for Salisbury are those of police and education. Certainly, in education all is not bad. I want to refer to a few quotes, namely— "The future of Australia lies in more students taking higher education. The Federal Government recognises this and is urging more students to stay in education longer and is encouraging others who left too early to return.

This programme is restricted, however, by the understandable and valid objec­ tions of many students in their late teens, who, after all, are young adults and want to be treated as such.

Surveys have shown that for many students, the restrictive nature of most secondary schools is a deterrent to their continuing education at school. Many leave school early, not because they don't enjoy leaming, but because they don't like the Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2229

way education is presented and cannot abide the restrictions of secondary schools. Regulations may suit some, but not all.

The college at Alexandra Hills, offers a solution to the obstacle of regimentation and restriction and most students, as high as 95%, have responded to the coUege ethos." Those words are not those of National Party apologists; they are the words of the Labor Federal and State members, praising Alexandra HUls college and indicate that there is much that is worthy of praise in the Queensland system. I can see that also, and some of my constituents become upset that I can see efforts worthy of praise. However, that does not cancel out the fact that our education spending in Queensland is the lowest of all States and that it is and has been totally inadequate to provide even a reasonable standard for the second half of the twentieth century. Queensland has never had an adequate education standard to provide the average student with the opportunity to compete with those in other States. We have failed totally to assist the brilliant student to reach the heights and many have done so despite the system, not because of it. Over the last couple of years, the National Party Govemment has denigrated the work of special schoolteachers in their attempts to improve the lot of the underachievers. The result has been great dissatisfaction amongst educators, students and parents and, incidentally, employers. It has also assisted in keeping Queensland as a low-wage and low-income State, which has probably been welcomed by the troglodytes who have been the controllers of Queensland in the last decade of decadence. Morale has been at an extremely low ebb in the Education Department and this is clearly demonstrated in the ground swell of resignations at all levels in the last two years. In no way do I level any criticism for this at the door of the present Minister, Brian Littleproud. In fact, after seeing his performance in the House and after becoming aware of his knowledge of and interest in the Department of Education, I was very pleased to see his elevation to the position. Last year's Budget was a total disaster, just as we in the Opposition said it would be. It was an unbelievable action of the grossest stupidity to reduce the funding of a department which was already underfunded by national standards. The actual cut meant that the most vital department in planning for the future of the people of this State was last year funded at only 66 per cent of the base minimum necessary to keep the department operating. As I said, it was an act of the grossest stupidity, worthy of a Third World dictatorship, with no regard for the people of the State and its and their future. It is an axiom of Govemments that, when a base figure is stmck at an artificially low level, it is virtually impossible to raise it to a reasonable level, except in the very long term. I could give many examples of this theorem, but it is sufficient to mention the low funding of tertiary education in Queensland when that was solely a State responsibility. It has still not been overcome under Federal funding. It was therefore obvious that this year's Budget was still going to be hopelessly inadequate, but at least it has gone a long way towards restoring the status quo. This is due in no small measure to the determination of Brian Littleproud. It is due in even greater measure to the determination of teachers and parents to demand improved funding, and I am extremely grateful to the parents in my electorate of Salisbury, who whole-heartedly demonstrated their anger at the previous lunacy of the National Party and their support for a restoration of funding. I can tell the National Party Govemment now—the Finance Minister specifically— that they now want to see a massive improvement in next year's Budget, the election- year Budget, and that if that improvement is not forthcoming, it will be sufficient reason 2230 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) for the Govemment to fall. Queenslad is now so far behind the other countries of the Pacific rim in education that we have become the low-income group, which was previously the lot of the Asian countries. Japanese wages, particularly salaries, have overtaken Queensland's and young Japanese people can now come to Queensland for cheap shopping. The decline in world commodity prices affects Queenslanders far worse than it does the people of other mainland States. Unless Queensland's education system for the majority of students is brought up to modem standards, this State has no hope of rising above the banana republic level. Household income in Queensland is 12'/2 per cent below the national average, and falling. Tourism is held out as the hope of the future; yet, unless Queensland's education standards rise, the role of Queenslanders will be at the base level of employees with the lowest level of wages. Do we see our daughters in the role of domestic servants for overseas visitors? Unless the public demands, and the Govemment provides, a higher standard of education, education-fiinding and motivation of students, that is the basic future of our children, which would suit many of Queensland's decision-makers, of course. The Australian Labor Party, however, sees a different future for this great, rich State and the 91 per cent of people who cam less than even the State's average income. If honourable members look at the proportion of Govemment spending channeUed into education, they will see it is obvious that further improvement is needed. In 1975-76, the proportion was 24.2 per cent. In 1982-83 and 1986-87, it was also over 23 per cent, but last year it plunged to the depths of 22.2 per cent. This year, it has nearly been restored to the average for the past decade. If honourable members look at the per capita spending last year of $537.80 in Queensland as compared to the all-States average of $635.43, they will see that the Queensland situation is brought into focus, but the figures are only the bare bones. Understaffed or underfunded libraries, non-provision of specialist teachers—even on a proportional basis—shortage of teacher aides and the perennial lack of basic teaching materials, are the fleshing out of the Government's neglect that infuriates Queensland's caring teachers and parents. The new system of so-called autonomy in no way will solve these problems. Why should parents who want a music teacher in a school of fewer than 300 have to argue and compete with other parents who regard the No. 1 priority as reducing the pupil-teacher ratio to an acceptable level, or who wish to see that proper teacher-aide hours be restored or maintained? That is what this new system will mean. The level of funding is not adequate to provide proper staffing of class-room teachers, specialist teachers, teacher aides, secretarial assistance and ground staff. At present, in most of the schools in my area, parents are doing this work on a voluntary, unpaid basis and obviously will have to continue to do so until the National Party Government accepts its responsibilities. Mr Scott: Or is put out. Mr ARDILL: That is right. I wish to quote the contents of a letter from one of the schools in my electorate. The Minister would have received a copy of this letter, which states— "The position of teacher-librarian is now of particular concem at the school due to the following factors: (a) enrolments are approximately twenty below (280) the number required for teacher-librarian entitlement. (b) the existing library resource centre holds in excess of 17 000 resources purchased over the years through govemment grant and hard won P & C fiinds. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2231

(c) approximately four years of resource centre neglect by a teacher-librarian usually renders that resource centre virtually useless to the school community as it becomes a jungle of poorly organised, outdated and missing resources." The school has notified the Minister of these concems. The letter goes on to state— "(f) our teacher-aide who had worked in the library resource centre for the past 10 years passed away with cancer earlier this year. Her replacement not only has the obstacle of only working 10 hours per week in the library, but has not had the opportunity for on the job training that the previous aide had." The teacher/librarian has also been transferred and there is nobody to look after that wonderful library that has been built up over so many years with such loving care. The 50 per cent increase—that is, $10m—in funding of school grants, which is a euphemistic term meaning that the Govemment accepts part of its responsibility to buy paper, equipment, power and petrol, will be welcomed but the extra paperwork wiU not, particularly where no secretarial staff are provided. The problem will be even more acute if the principal is a teaching principal. A hopeless situation! The National Party Government is bludging on dedicated professionals and parents in what should be one of its most important areas of responsibUity, along with pubUc health and police protection. Every student has a right to and a need for specialist teachers to be available on at least a proportional basis, and every school has the right to proper staffing, including secretarial assistance—again, even if it is only on a proportional basis. Teacher aides, despite the misguided opinion of the previous Minister, are a basic part of and an integral part of a modem education system. As long as those factors are taken into account, the system can be made to work after a reasonable phasing-in period, provided that proper staff consultation procedures are also introduced. The previous Director-General, George Berkeley, before his retirement in early 1987, foresaw and promoted a system of single manpower and a single staff budget for the department. As long as the matter is attended to with sympathy and good sense, I would not object; but the first prerequisite is political acknowledgement that sufficient additional funding must be made available to bring the Queensland system up to a reasonable standard. Today the National Party back-benchers have denied that. They keep saying that Queensland does not need the same sort of funding as other States. What kind of twisted logic is that? It has no logic at all; it is merely sycophantic nonsense that they produce for the ministerial benches. A reasonable system would include the following— (1) sufficient teachers employed to attain the correct teacher-pupil ratio; (2) teachers in multiple level—that is a composite class—teaching situations would have that ratio reduced even further; (3) sufficient teacher-aide hours restored; (4) secretarial assistance provided at all schools; (5) sufficient specialist teachers employed; and (6) special schools retained to provide for separate levels of achievable attainment and fulfilment for moderately impaired, severely impaired and multiple handicapped children. Mr Henderson: You have to be joking. Mr ARDILL: I am not. Only when all of these criteria are accepted by the Govemment and administrators will the new autonomy be accepted as a desirable innovation instead of being a cop-out or a means to divide and mle. On the other hand, I would like to see all sections of the education system back under Education Department control and, most particularly, the department in full control of its buildings budget. The Works Department should 2232 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) only operate as a contractor and advisor, and not have the power to decide whether to paint the whole school or only the side facing the public road. If it did so act, justice might then be done at Runcom Heights school, which is the only school in my electorate— and, in fact, in the region—with a totally disgracefiil lack of a covered play and lunch area for its senior primary students. I keep receiving the totally stupid reply that there is sufficient covered area, but every day students can be seen eating their lunches ouside the toilet and sitting on the steps of the passageways to avoid the hot sun in which other students are forced to sit or stand. I would like the Minister to have a look at the school. I can assure him that departmental officers at all levels can clearly see that there is insufficient covered area for the 394 students at the school, let alone for the increased enrolment of students that is to be expected in a fast-growing area. Mr Littleproud: You got a letter saying there is some sort of priority from the Works Department. Mr ARDILL: I received a reply saying that it would not be done this year. I and my predecessors in the electorate have been asking for it for years. An area of 390 square metres of covered space is not sufficient, even under ideal circumstances, and it is ridiculously inadequate when it consists of passageways and steps and a triple-level area alongside the tuckshop which includes queuing space. If all these matters were under the control of professional educators and their expert advisors, I believe that better decisions would be made. Parents and teachers should have greater local autonomy under the guidance of principals, as long as overall State standards are set and observed. One or two other matters come to mind. One is the present unsatisfactory practice of allowing high schools to become too large before relief schools are built. In the exploding southem suburbs of Brisbane and in Logan City, high schools have expanded to 1 600 and 1 800 students, which is far beyond a manageable group in the age range involved. I know that this is not the worst situation in Queensland. In fact, in the electorate of South Coast, which is held by the National Party, there are 2 000 pupils in one high school. That is utterly ridiculous. Mr Henderson: Why is it ridiculous? Mr ARDILL: It is unmanageable; that is why. In Miami there are even students without rooms who are shifted around between various other buildings. I am sure that Mrs Gamin is capable of dealing with this problem and that she will attempt to bring the schools in the South Coast electorate up to a reasonable standard. In my opinion, and in the opinion of many educators, before a school reaches an enrolment of 1 200 students a relief school should be under constmction, unless there is evidence that the local population has peaked or is levelling out. Since students are at age 12 before they enter high school, a safe lead-time is available to the planners. Sunnybank Hills is one of Queensland's fastest-growing areas, with adjacent suburbs of Algester, Calamvale, Stretton and Runcorn also growing at an alarming rate. The land which the Government has purchased in Sunnybank Hills should now be considered for a new high school in the immediate future. I would also Uke to congratulate the Minister on his support of community-based after-school and pre-school care facilities. With about one quarter of primary school children otherwise going home to an empty house, this is a vital need. With parents providing for this service in school-based facilities a most important need is being filled in the most economically viable way. By using school buildings when they would otherwise be deserted, these good people are also reducing the incidence of vandalism. I trust that the Minister's and the department's support for this will continue. There are a couple of other matters I wish to mention. The first concems driver education. The Government is almost totally failing in this regard. Driver education must become an integral part of the school curriculum and time has to be taken to Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2233 provide not only driving practice but also the teaching of the theory and phUosphy of driving, which will enable students to understand modem driving conditions and facilities. The second matter is this State Govemment's reftisal to accept its normal respon­ sibility for providing parking and set-down areas at many schools throughout the State. The Govemment tries to throw that responsibility onto local councils. It will not wash. It is the Govemment's responsibility to provide for the safety of pupils by providing an adequate set-down area within the school site and separate from the playground area. I have said this for many years and I will keep on saying it until the department and Government accept their responsibilities. A standard set-down area is provided at some schools in other places, and traffic engineers have provided the ideal lay-out to enable vehicles to make safe right tums before or after dropping students off at school. This Govemment has to accept its responsibilities. Mrs GAMIN (South Coast) (8.30 p.m.): In joining the debate on the Education Estimates, I take the opportunity to congratulate the Minister for Education, the Honourable Brian Littleproud, on his considerable achievements since he took over this portfolio just under a year ago. Education had become a bogy haunting this Govemment as a succession of teachers, parents, unions and others attacked it on just about every aspect of education. Initiatives taken in the recent Budget have gone some way towards removing this bogy and fiirther initiatives in many other fields of education, quite apart from funding, have finally laid these ghosts to rest. Implementation of the recommendations of the Sherrin committee report on higher education will be of benefit to students seeking tertiary training. In schools themselves, additional teachers, support staff, teacher amenities and more flexible staffing policies will all benefit primary and secondary schooling in this State. The Govemment is committed to a 2 per cent real increase in funding per annum for the next three years in per capita grants to non-Govemment schools in addition to full provision for all student number increases. The total allocation will increase by 9.5 per cent, from $68.4m in 1987-88 to $74.9m in 1988-89. The private school system plays a vital role in the education system of this State. In my electorate there are several fine private schools, some long estabUshed and operating very efficiently and others just starting off and finding their feet. Further to the State school system, I should say that attention has been given to a technology improvement program that will cost $20m over three years, 50 per cent of which will go on computers and the balance on word-processing, electric typewriters, computerised accounting, etc. There is a special allocation to the schoolground improve­ ment subsidy scheme to clear the backlog of assembly hall and swimming-pool subsidy approvals and to increase the maximum subsidy rates by 15 per cent. There will be increases in school transport schemes, textbook allowances and school grants. One particular innovation that I believe will have far-reaching benefits is the new general purpose school grants scheme operative from the 1989 school year to replace the present specific grants that cover more than 40 different areas. The objective is to ease the burden on parents and achieve much greater parent/school interaction on the expenditure of funds. The level of funding has been increased by 50 per cent, or $10m per annum. This initiative has been criticised by both the Queensland Council of Parents and Citizens Associations (QCPCA) and the Queensland Teachers Union (QTU). That criticism is based solely on political motives and not practical benefits. Both bodies have to agree, and do agree, that democratic decision-making involving teachers, principals and parents should apply on some issues but these bodies just cannot bear to think that this Govemment has taken a sensible decision and they are casting around to try to score political points without looking ahead to the general benefits. From my observation, and certainly on the Gold Coast, most ordinary parents with whom I have discussed this initiative have welcomed it. I am sure that when teachers and principals have studied it further, most will also welcome it. Yet the Queensland Teachers Union and the Queensland Council of Parents and Citizens Association, which 2234 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) itself has almost become trade unionised, continue to balk at this initiative. One can only believe that this resistance is only because they did not think of it first. School principals are not management half-wits or nincompoops. Parents and citizens associations are not financially incompetent, yet this is what the QTU and the QCPCA would have us believe as they engage in criticism of the Govemment's proposed new funding system for schools. I have strongly, and pubUcly, urged all Gold Coast parents to examine these proposals carefully and to keep away from the political point-scoring of these unions. The new plan will share school management between parents and their school administrations. This will include principals and staff being involved with community or p. and c. association representatives in the allocations of grants, which have been increased by 50 per cent as I have already mentioned. By replacing the current specific grants with one general grant there will be greater flexibility in planning programs. This will make life simpler for parents, teachers and students and it will shift responsibility for spending on to the schools themselves as they determine their own priorities. The Education Department is preparing useful guide-lines for both groups and in all areas the regional directors are setting up training programs to ensure that school communities are aware of the process and how it wiU work. As a Govemment, we accept that parents are equal partners in our schools and, on that basis, they are entitled to an equal share in the decision-making process. This is a change that will be greatly welcomed by aU those parents who have the welfare of their children at heart. The p. and c. associations in my own area of South Coast are made up of a fine bunch of people who are dedicated to the welfare of their chUdren and who work very hard indeed for the benefit of all students in their respective schools. One excellent example of p. and c. association dedication has recently come forward from the Burleigh Heads State School. Some years ago, due to a greatly increased enrolment in the lower grades, the school was split into an infants school and an upper primary school, which were colloquially known as "the little school" and "the big school". The upper school, that is, the big school, has always been a Class 1 school. In 1978 the Burleigh Heads State School had an enrolment of 833 and the infants school had an enrolment of 360. But times have changed in the district as younger parents have moved with their children from the town centre into the newly opened suburban developments. The establishment of the new school in Burleigh Waters—or Caningeraba—took students from the Burleigh Heads town area to the extent that in 1988 the numbers at the Burleigh Heads State School had dropped back to 570 and the infants school to 250. That placed the State school, that is, the big school, in grave jeopardy with the prospect of declassification to a Class 2 school in 1989. That would have had an extremely adverse effect on teacher amenity and, worse than that, the big school would have lost its Class 1 headmaster, who has been with the school for only a few months. My old friend John Goodman retired as headmaster at the end of 1987 after many years of dedicated service to the school and the district. David Evans arrived at the beginning of this year. Parents were extremely anxious that they should not lose him by having him replaced by a Class 2 headmaster, just as they, as parents, and he, as headmaster, were starting to develop a mutual tmst of respect and friendship in this his first year with them at Burleigh Heads. The obvious answer to that problem is the amalgamation of those schools, which brings the joint enrolment up to over 800, retains the Class 1 classification, means no loss of anciUary teaching staff and keeps a highly respected headmaster. I congratulate the p. and c. groups of both schools—the big school and the little school—for the great co-operation they have shown and congratulate also the regional director of education, John Fitzgerald, for the sympathy and interest that he has shown in that problem. It seems highly likely now that the two schools will amalgamate next year and that the headmaster, David Evans, will stay on. I understand that very many parents have taken the trouble to express their warmth and pleasure that that will happen. I am also advised by parents that there is no heartache involved with the Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2235 present principal of the infant school, who has received advice of transfer and promotion within the system. I am told that that is suitable to her. I am delighted that that matter will now be satisfactorily resolved, because next year Burleigh Heads State School will celebrate its seventy-fifth anniversary. It is a very important part of our district and it would have been very distressing if it had been downgraded. We can now embark on the anniversary celebrations in 1989 knowing that we still have our Class 1 classification and that parents from all levels are working together and in harmony with their school administration. Burleigh Heads was not the first State school built in South Coast. I believe that educational facUities started in hinterland schools more than 100 years ago in the Mudgeeraba area. Mudgeeraba now has a new school, and with George O'Brien as principal it is going from strength to strength. With over 800 pupUs it is the biggest primary school in the electorate. Last week, during the recess I had the pleasure of helping to conduct groups from both Mudgeeraba and Burleigh Heads State Schools through Parliament House. A nicer bunch of kids one could not hope to meet. One group will be able to boast that it watched the Melboume Cup on the television screen in the Parliamentary Annexe. It was my pleasure to write to the headmaster of both schools to congratulate their pupils on their deportment and behaviour. Miami West primary school in Oceanic Drive has been operating for several years now, again with a most active and hard working p. and c. group who have raised funds for a multipurpose area at the school. After some initial difficulties, their funding subsidy has now been approved, and plans and engineering designs are being checked for finalisation. Caningeraba school at Burleigh Waters is even newer. That school will grow rapidly with the greatly increasing development of the residential suburbs of Burleigh Waters and Stephans. Parents transporting their children to that school from the Burleigh Park and Treetops estates off Reedy Creek Road will have a much quicker joumey with the link-up of Mattocks Road and Christine Avenue. The hinterland schools are flourishing. The new school at Gilston replaces a very old building. Polling-days at Gilston State School under the big trees used to be a pleasure. The new school just gets into the electorate by a whisker. At Springbrook, we have been promised an early education centre to be operative by 1990. Numinbah Valley State School celebrated its 50 years a few years ago, and Natural Bridge State School will hold its 50 years' celebration in this coming January. We also have the speech therapy centre at Burleigh Heads and the special school at Mudgeeraba. In regard to the Mudgeeraba Special School, I should Uke to thank the Minister and his department, with some co-operation from the Department of Works, for the provision at the school of a transportable class room from another area to cater for a small group of quite severely handicapped children. Mr Sherrin: It probably came from my electorate. Mrs GAMIN: It did not come from the honourable member's area. With the Endeavour Foundation facility at Cooinda closing down at the end of this year, those chUdren could have gone to Coolangatta. That was not suitable. The altemative would have involved a much longer and very tiring joumey to Southport. Their parents want them to go to Mudgeeraba, and I am delighted that they will now be able to do so. All in all, the State primary schools in my electorate are going well, with dedicated staff and parents aU working hard for the benefit of their schools and their chUdren. I only have one State high school in the South Coast electorate, although the new Merrimac State High School in the Surfers Paradise electorate takes many students from South Coast. 2236 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Miami State High School has been in existence for many years, and went from strength to strength under the leadership of the popular and very well known principal. Bill Callinan, who retired three or four years ago. Bill is still in the district, of course, taking his usual interest in football and playing a lot of golf Miami's enrolments have dropped back from about 1 600 to about 1 200 students as Merrimac's have increased. Miami high prides itself on the variety of vocational training courses it offers to its students, particularly to those who will not be going on to tertiary education. At the same time, its academic standard is superb, and I am told that this school has recently bettered the State average on the ASAT test. But because the school is old, it does have problems in keeping its maintenance up to standard. New high schools have been built, and they have everything that opens and shuts. Old schools like Miami have stmggled for amenities that the new schools take for granted. The Miami p. and c. is a particularly active and dedicated group, and kicks in something like $60,000 to $80,000 a year to the grounds, the library, and provision of equipment and amenities. Much of the computer equipment at the school has come from p. and c. efforts, and in the future a great deal of their money will have to go to repairs and maintenance of this equipment as it gets older, rather than to the provision of new equipment. Last week, I inspected the school with senior staff, and Maria McMaster who is secretary of the p. and c. There are certainly several problems which need attention, so I have invited the Deputy Premier and Minister for Works, the Honourable Bill Gunn, to come down to South Coast and have a look for himself at some of the schools and the necessity to increase or upgrade the maintenance program for Miami State High School. Miami high now finds itself in the middle of the Gold Coast traffic scene, and, with the overloaded Gold Coast Highway mnning right outside its door, traffic and transport also present problems. I take this opportunity of congratulating Miami high's principal, Keith Dwyer, on his promotion and transfer to the Wide Bay district. The staff and parents will be sad to see him go. I can assure my colleagues, the members for Gympie, Maryborough and Bumett, that they will have a valuable asset in Keith Dwyer. Although Project Pay Packet comes under a different portfolio—that of the Hon­ ourable Vince Lester, Minister for Employment, Training and Industrial Affairs—that $35m initiative is generating practical job opportunities and creating job-related training positions. The total effort is directed towards reducing Queensland's unemployment level by providing training courses for young people and getting them off the dole and into courses that will have a practical application to their future employment prospects. Before I finish, I should like to pay tribute to the Gold Coast College of Advanced Education, its staff, its board and its community backers who have worked so hard to make that concept a reality. Dr Graham Jones, the director, and people such as Peter Hobart and Ron McMaster have been untiring in their efforts. At present, the college is still operating out of the old Surfers Paradise State School in Laycock Street in Surfers Paradise, but it will soon move to the new facility at Smith Street in Southport. I deplore the Federal Government's moves to amalgamate such colleges into multicampus facilities. I strongly support the Gold Coast CAE in its efforts to retain its autonomy. It is ridiculous to force that college into an amalgamation process when, within a very few years, its enrolments will have grown so rapidly as to allow autonomy. If the college is forced into an amalgamation, it would be ludicrous for it to join up with the Brisbane College of Advanced Education, the Conservatorium of Music or Griffith University. If it has to amalgamate, it would be far better off joining forces with the Darling Downs Institute of Advanced Education. Both are regional institutions, and at least they would have some common interests. It has been my pleasure to give my strong support to the Gold Coast College of Advanced Education in its strenuous efforts to retain its autonomy or, failing that, amalgamation with DDIAE. I certainly hope that it is successful in the former course. In concluding, I again congratulate the Minister for Education, the Honourable Brian Littleproud, on his achievements as Minister in charge of this most important Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2237 portfolio. It is recognised that Queensland is grossly underfunded by the Commonwealth Govemment in relation to education in comparison with other States in the Commonwealth. The Minister has also done a huge amount of work on the education legislation that is now before this Parliament, covering such aspects as the Board of Teacher Registration, the Board of Senior Secondary School Studies, establishing a ministerial consultative council, establishment of the Queensland university of technology to replace the QIT, and the fine-tuning of the work experience program that has been operating for 10 years. The Minister has an enormously difficult and complicated portfolio. He deserves every commendation for the way in which he conducts himself and handles his department in what used to be, but is now no longer, one of the most troublesome Cabinet portfolios. Mr SCOTT (Cook) (8.47 p.m.): I always thought that I was amongst the highest- marked members for the sheer parochialism of my speeches. However, I doff my laurel wreath and hand it to the member for South Coast. Mrs Gamin has beaten me hands down. Her arm must be terribly sore from pushing away at the parish pump. She should take a few minutes off. If one added the number of schools in the Cook electorate to the number of sporting organisations, it would probably outdo any three or four other electorates in the State. So I have more than 100 reasons for taking part in this Estimates debate, and I am very happy to do so, as the cliche goes. I am also happy to begin in the normal way by praising the staff of the department. I praise in particular the staff of the Division of Sport, which consists of a small number of dedicated people whose job it is to assess applications for aid and grants to sporting bodies. I believe that they do that reasonably well. The Cook electorate scores reasonably well. Mr Muntz: It does. Mr SCOTT: Yes. I suppose it has a bit to do with the representation. However, it has a lot more to do with the people involved in the sporting organisations. What is needed is more money for more organisations. The funding that is granted is extremely valuable. That is great. It is good to see the staff of the Division of Sport giving good service to their employer, the State Government. The same can be said about the staff of the Education Department. I now find that I rarely need to go beyond the regional office. In the years that I have served the electorate, the regional office has always been the place to go. I compUment the staff of the regional office Mr Muntz: And the Queensland Government. Mr SCOTT: I am a bit worried about the Minister. I wonder whether he is claiming credit as an example of the calibre of the Queensland Cabinet yet. I will steer away from the environment. I do not want to talk about bats and the problem that the Minister is having with those nasty little animals. It is good to have dedicated public servants. I am not sure how much of an inroad the contract employment arrangements are having. The staff below contract level provide a great service. I am quite sure that the staff on contract also do their best. The staff in the regional office and in the department are complemented by dedicated people at the school level. I pay a compliment to principals, teachers, teacher aides, ground staff and school secretaries. Those are the people on the ground, out in the field, one might say, who are given the job of making up for the problems created by low funding in the department itself There has not yet been a strong enough Minister for Education. Mr Muntz, who is presently in the Chamber, is looking for a little bit of praise for himself and his coUeagues—weak-kneed lot that they are. A firm Minister for Education could knock a few heads together and say, "Let's lift the spending on education." However, that does not happen, and it will not happen until there is a change in Government. That is a 2238 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) shame. That is felt by the teachers, by the people out there in the field, but, more than anything, by the parents and students. It is certainly felt in the Cook electorate. I must say thank goodness for the Federal Government, because without its help education in the Cook electorate would be in a parlous state Government members interjected. Mr SCOTT: 1 was waiting for the choms because members of the Govemment know that it is tme. The Govemment that has come to the rescue of the Queensland Government in so many ways—once to help with the environment—is the Federal Government. I will tell honourable members why. In the time available to me I intend to be a little bit parochial. I am going to talk about the shortcomings in the Cook electorate, and then I am going to go into an in-depth, detailed analysis of the Estimates. I will be citing some facts and figures. I know that honourable members look forward to the rest of my speech. Mr HamUl: I do. Mr SCOTT: I appreciate that. I am pleased to note that the honourable member is in the Chamber amongst all the other Labor members. The State Govemment has an incredible capacity for making decisions that it is going to do something and then letting someone else pay for it—either the people of this State or the Federal Govemment. The State Govemment does not back its decisions with money—not even reasonable amounts of money. I want to speak about Aboriginal affairs. My friend Mr Katter talks about giving self-management to Aboriginal communities. Who backs it up with real money? The Federal Govemment! Thank goodness for that. The State Govemment talks about road needs. Who provides the money? The Federal Government through the ABRD program. I am proud of that. I say that with a great deal of pride. I would hate to be sitting on the Govemment side and not be able to hold my head up because of what the Govemment is or is not doing. It is incredible. Mr Veivers is in the Chamber. I was amazed at the speech that he made earlier. It was a terrible speech. It was the first time I had ever seen a departmental brief stapled together so that none of the sheets would go astray. I know that the honourable member has difficulty in counting and that he would not be able to staple the pages back together. If it was a football, he would have been able to handle it well. The honourable member should ask the departmental officers, when compiling depart­ mental briefs, to use smaller words. This afternoon the honourable member was stumbUng over the words. I felt terribly sorry for him. Education follows the same pattern. The people in the Cook electorate look to the Federal Government for things to happen. A bright spot is the Torres Strait. The member for Callide is no longer in the Chamber. She made a very brief visit to the Torres Strait. She said that the schools in my electorate are wonderfiil. The schools are wonderful because the Federal Government contributed a large amount of money towards them. I know that the Minister for Education will agree with me, because he visited the Torres Strait, and he said that in a very muted voice. He had to say that because it was well known in the area that the money for the schools came from the Federal Government. Senator Susan Ryan visited the Torres Strait well before Mr Littleproud. Senator Susan Ryan made sure that Commonwealth funding flowed to that area. The money dribbles from the Minister's pocket; but it flowed from the Federal Government. The Torres Strait is in a strategic position. It is most important that the education of Torres Strait people is promoted. It is mostly as it should be, but I must say that that has occurred because of what the Federal Govemment has done. Mr Littleproud has visited the Torres Strait. He will have to examine the problem of teacher accommodation for island teachers who have been trained and recmited by Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2239 the Education Department. In every other remote community in the Cook electorate, accommodation is provided for all the teachers. Accommodation is not provided for the island teachers. The Minister is going to look at that problem. A departmental head is nodding. The Minister is concentrating on writing an answer to my enlivening speech. However, the departmental head is nodding wisely. The director knows that that will be a problem. To coin a phrase, the Minister has to bite the bullet and do something about the problem. Thursday Island had to wait four lean years for a high school after it was bumt down. That high school has been replaced. I must give great credit to Mr Topping, the principal who was there for the transition from the temporary accommodation to the new high school. He has remained in the area until this year. Everyone will be sad to see him go. Thursday Island had to wait for its high school. The people of Thursday Island lament the state of their primary school. Neither the Minister nor his committee visited the primary school at Thursday Island. I point out to the Minister that the school is primitive. I ask the Minister to take note of that matter and to talk to his colleague, Mr Gunn, who I think will disappear from the scene before very long. The primary school at Bamaga is primitive, and something should be done about that. The people of Bamaga have had to wait for so long for a sporting oval, which they still do not have in anything like the measure that other schools have. Cooktown has a high school; Weipa does not. Why does Weipa not have a high school? It has a secondary department. Weipa does not have a high school because the Queensland Govemment will not support mining communities. It is absolutely disgusting that the Government does not have the courage to do anything about that. The Govemment talks about mining, but is does not have the courage to put its money where its mouth is and do something. The Government claims that Comalco could shut up shop and go away. What an utterly ridiculous claim! That is virtually what the Minister told me. He made a very brief visit to Weipa. When I asked him about a high school, he said, "I don't know about the numbers up there. Bob. I do not know what the trend is in employment." Comalco close its mine? It produces 12 or 13 per cent of the bauxite of the world—not just of Australia, but of the world! It will continue to do that for a long time to come. Kaolin is mined in the district. When that has finished, a community will be located there because the Federal Govemment will build a defence base in the area. The Minister should not worry about Comalco or Weipa closing down; it will not happen. I urge the Minister to make a decision to build a high school in Weipa, because it is needed badly. Although the Minister visited Weipa, he did not leam very much. As he is the Minister for Education, there has to be hope. It was good to see him at Rossville. I appreciate that. I am sorry that the Minister has to sit in the Chamber and cop this. However, I have the microphone. The Minister's visit to my electorate did a lot of harm to the National Party. All the complaints I received came from my National Party friends. The Labor Party people said, "He is a tory Minister. What would you expect?" However, the National Party people muttered to me, "Look, he is one of ours. Bob. Why doesn't he stay on the ground for a little while and talk to the people?" He did not stay long enough and the party Mr Hamill: He's too embarrassing. Mr SCOTT: I realise that. He is a nice looking bloke, but they say, "What would he contribute anyway, even if we could listen to him for very long?" While I am talking about mining centres, I refer to Cape Flattery, which is another major mining centre in the Cook electorate. Does it have a school? No, it does not! The students at Cape Flattery study by correspondence. They occupy a company-owned school and are taught by a teacher who is paid by the company. That is what the Govemment thinks about education in mining centres. We have had a lot of stupid Govemment members—I think that that is barely a parliamentary phrase, but it is really the only one that I can use Mr Hamill interjected. 2240 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Mr SCOTT: I was going to talk about Mr Muntz and Shelbume Bay. He is not game to go there, but he wants to mine silica at Shelbume Bay. He and a few other Ministers, including Mr Tenni, are in favour of mining silica at Shelbume Bay. The Minister does not care about the environment, so he is looking for Mr Tenni's job as the Minister for Mines and Energy. A large number of people are employed at Cape Flattery, but it does not have a school. For the benefit of the two Ministers sitting opposite me, I point our that large amounts of sUica sand are extracted and shipped to Japan. Honourable members are told that that is the peak of the operation and the way that industry should be in Queensland. That is what we are told is great. If it is not coal, it is silica or some other mineral. The Minister wants to extend the mining to the great environmental area of Shelbume Bay. The Minister will not do that. However, if he did, that area would not receive a school, either. That is a shame. Mr Katter also supported mining at Shelbume Bay. He would really give his soul to see a mine commence there so that more minerals could be shipped to Japan. To retum to the Torres Strait—Mr Katter arranged to sell the Melbidir. The Melbidir has a reputation in this Chamber through its connection with Ministers who like to go fishing. However, it also had some serious purposes. One of the many jobs of the Melbidir was to transport students to various islands for interisland sports. As that vessel has been sold, there is now no economical way of transporting students to the various islands. Because, following the sale of the Melbidir, sports competition will now be denied to the chUdren, the parents and the children wUl suffer. I have written to the Minister for Education about that problem. Eventually I hope to receive a reply from him. I know that I will not receive a positive reply. I am pessimistic enough to think that he will not be doing too much about it. He should think about the competition that those children in Torres Strait will miss out on. One community paid $6,000 to transport its students to another island in the centre of the eastern group so that they could take part in sports. The Cook electorate is suffering. Fortunately the Commonwealth Government will not be removed from office at the next election. The Labor Party will be in Govemment in Canberra for many years to come. However, for many years the Cook electorate has been suffering because of the downturn in State Government spending. It needs increased budgetary allocation. It is all very well for small-minded Government members to say that money does not matter in relation to education; that it is the quality. I invite them to visit parts of my electorate. If they do so, I will show them where money is needed. An additional $279m was needed to raise Queensland's spending level to the level of other States. That is how far behind Queensland is. Shame! This Budget feU $170m short of that figure and does not maintain the 1987-88 expenditure figure. This Government's record is shocking. I will quote the relevant figures. However, the narrow- minded Govemment members will have difficulty grasping these technical matters. Few of them went beyond Grade 7 at school. I ask them to concentrate. The sum of $ 1,626m was needed to maintain the 1987-88 spending. The sum of $ 1,759m was needed to restore spending to the 1986-87 level. The actual planned expenditure for 1988-89 is $1,617m, which is a paltry amount. Mr Simpson: They have aU said it before. Mr SCOTT: The electors of Cook will be reading my speech. They will see the figures and have the information that they need. There has been a slight rise in education spending as a proportion of the State's Budget. I seek leave to have this graph incorporated in Hansard. Leave granted. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2241

EDUCATION'S SHARE OF THE STATE BUDGET 1975/76 TO 1988/89

22%

19.3%

76/77 77/78 7B/79 79/BO 80/81 81/82 82/83 83/84 84/BS 85/86 86/87 87/88 88/89 75/76 NOTE: Budgets have been standardised over ttie period to ensure comparability spending on TAFE & senior colleges has now been shifted to the employment portfolio.

Mr SCOTT: This graph wiU be a visual aid for Govemment members. It contains educational terms that they will understand. Because it would be voted out of office, the National Party Govemment does not want an educated electorate. In any case, it will be voted out at the next election. I intend to quote from some additional figures that demonstrate the paucity of this Govemment's performance in the field of education. Mr Simpson: They were drawings, not figures. Mr SCOTT: There were some little things called figures on that graph. I realise that it is difficult for the honourable member to understand that. As to education and recurrent expenditure excluding TAFE, senior colleges, youth, sport, Gosuper and the Sherrin program— the sum of $1,3 81.3m was needed to restore the Budget to 1986-87 levels. To attain the national average, the sum of $ 1,424.2m was needed. The actual Budget allocation for 1988-89 is $ 1,274.6m. As to TAFE and senior colleges—the sum of $ 189.4m was needed to attain the national average, but the actual Budget aUocation for 1988-89 is $ 187.5m. As to maintenance for schools and TAFE colleges—the sum of $40.2m was needed to attain the national average. What did Queensland get? We received $41.9m. As to capital works for schools—the sum of $ 102.7m was needed to attain the national average—that elusive goal—but Queensland received the sum of $82.8m in the actual Budget allocation for 1988-89. When one studies the Budget figures, one finds difficulty with that figure. The allocation for capital 2242 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) works could be $82.8m or it could be $50m. It is not possible for educated people to work that one out, let alone the back-benchers on the Govemment side of the Chamber. I do not know how the committee members got on. They would have had great difficulties. I tum now to the capital expenditure for schools. The estimated figure for 1988-89 is $82.763m. The actual expenditure for 1987-88 was $81.973m, which indicates a $.79m increase this year. However, in real terms it represents a decrease of 6.8 per cent on the 1987-88 figure and a 52.4 per cent decrease on the 1986-87 figure. Capital expenditure for TAFE coUeges increased by $7.177m. That would have been necessary because of the concentration of students returning to TAFE education. That figure represents a real increase of 23.9 per cent on the 1987-88 figure and an increase of 5.6 per cent on the 1986-87 figure. There was an increase in recurrent expenditure for schools of $65.99m, or a decrease of 1.6 per cent in real terms. That is an example of this Government's shocking and disgusting performance. Works Department primary school maintenance increased by $3.282m, which represents an 8.3 per cent increase in real terms. Secondary school maintenance increased by $3.248m, or 25.9 per cent in real terms. That was very necessary, long overdue and something positive that this Govemment has done. I am prepared to give credit to the Govemment on those rare occasions when it does something good. Pre-school main­ tenance increased by $.301m, or 11 per cent in real terms, and TAFE college maintenance decreased by $.084, or 12.1 per cent in real terms. The increases in school maintenance result from a $15m special allocation to improve teacher amenities in State schools during the next three years. The 1988-89 component of that program is $5m. I turn now to staffing. Teacher establishment is no longer included in the Budget papers. It is simply reported that there will be 522 additional teachers. That should be compared with the Queensland Teachers Union pre-Budget estimate that 1 872 teachers were needed in the following ways: 560 to restore last year's cuts; 230 to cater for increased enrolments; 960 to ensure no oversized classes; and 122 to assist with the integration of disabled children into regular class rooms. The slight improvement in teacher-aide aUocations for small primary schools will not alter the allocation to other schools. It will go nowhere near restoring the teacher-aide entitlements that existed before the cuts. That is quite scandalous. I give credit to the Queensland Teachers Union for helping me with some of that material. Air-conditioning will be a major consideration in country areas. Once again there has been a noticeable silence from National Party members about the provision of air- conditioning in remote areas. It will be a political issue. A message was received from the p. and c. association of the Georgetown school that it is contacting its local member and Govemment departments to show how strongly it feels about the need for air- conditioning in schools. Opposition members: Hear, hear! Mr SCOTT: I back that association 100 per cent, as do my Labor Party coUeagues. I am so pleased to hear that. Time expired. Mr HENDERSON (Mount Gravatt) (9.07 p.m.): It gives me a great deal of pleasure indeed to participate in this debate. I invite the (Committee to consider some of the claims that have been made by some honourable members opposite and to evaluate them for what they actuaUy state. The first claim that was heard from several members opposite related to the levels of funding of education in this State. A number of members contended that if the level of funding is to be brought up to the national average, the Government needs to spend several hundred million doUars on education. I invite the Committee to think about what that really means. We really have to look at the word "level". What levels should the Govemment bring its education spending up to? Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2243

No person in this Chamber could chaUenge the correctness of the following state­ ments. Statement No. 1: the level of numeracy among children attending State schools and other schools in Queensland is among the highest in Australia. That is widely recognised. Statement No. 2: the level of literacy among students in Queensland is among the highest in this nation. Why is that? Statement No. 3: the level of vocational education—skill education—in this State is amongst the highest in Australia. No matter what area of this State's education is considered, the standards of education for children in this State are among the highest in this nation. Those statements are indisputable. Let us consider what honourable members opposite are really saying. They are saying that the Govemment has to spend more money on education. What wiU be achieved if that money is spent on education? The southem States are presumably spending more money than Queensland is, but the expenditure of that money has not raised the levels of numeracy, literacy or vocational education and so on up to the levels that exist in this State. Mr Simpson: The southem States are wasting their education dollar. Mr HENDERSON: I do not know whether they are really wasting their education dollar. What it really means is that the performance of education in Queensland, as shown by many measurable parameters, is among the highest in this nation, and it cannot be criticised. Therefore, why does this real difference exist? What are Opposition members really talking about when they say that they want several hundred miUion more dollars spent on education in Queensland? What will be achieved? Perhaps some members opposite would like to say that the physical facilities of the schools need to be improved. What members opposite do not understand is the point raised by the honourable member for Fassifem earlier today, namely, that the architecture and the constmction of school buildings and the resources in schools in this State are different from those in other States and they are considerably less expensive. I have had the privilege not only of inspecting most southem schools but also of teaching in a Tasmanian school. It is very interesting to compare teaching in Tasmania with teaching in Queensland. The school in which I taught was a high school situated in Launceston. It was a very interesting school indeed. Because of the climate, the school had to be built in a particular way. For example, the school was entirely sealed, it was centrally heated, it had double glazing on some of the windows, there were very few outdoor areas, and there was a totaUy contained heated gymnasium. The school was obviously much more expensive to build than any school in Queensland. It had to be more expensive, simply because Tasmania's climate did not permit the open-school type architecture that is used in Queensland. Exactly the same argument applies to the constmction of homes. For example, the cost of building a house in Tasmania is infinitely more expensive than it is in Queensland. Therefore, it stands to reason that more money has to be spent on education in southem States, because the provision of facilities and resources is infinitely more expensive. The question that has to be asked is: does the end-product of the education system in this State measure up to the end-product of the education system in other States? The answer is decidedly, "Yes." Mr Ardill: "No, definitely no." Mr HENDERSON: Do not be so ridiculous. If the honourable member is an example of what education produces, then his statement is correct; but he is not. The fact of the matter is that the standard of our product is certainly among the best and the highest in this nation. The children of Queensland participate in a first- class education system. The product of that system is certainly among the best in Australia. This State has no reason whatever to hang its head in shame when it comes to judging the quality of education that is produced here. The quaUty of the children who emerge from our education system is among the best and the finest in this nation. If the Govemment was to spend the extra hundreds of millions of dollars that the 2244 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) honourable member for Salisbury speaks about, how could the product be improved? What would that money be spent on? Mr Ardill: Are you a parent? Do you know what you are talking about? You see only one side of the equation. Mr HENDERSON: I certainly know what I speak about. The honourable member also spoke about the provision of resources in schools. He spoke about the commitment of p. and c. associations. Any time that he cares to accompany me to some of the schools in Sydney I will point out to him exactly what the parents down there are expected to do. They are certainly doing as much for their schools as the p. and c. associations up here are doing. Mr Ardill: That is a lie. Mr HENDERSON: It is not. Mr Ardill: I have had a look at it. Mr HENDERSON: The honourable member must have had blinkers on at the time. It is interesting that the editorial published in the Courier-Mail on Tuesday, 25 October, commented on the campaign currently waged by the Queensland Teachers Union against changes that have been occurring in Queensland education, particularly in relation to funding. The editorial was at least honest enough to state— "The Queensland Teachers Union seemed to base its criticism on political, rather than educational, grounds." That is precisely what members of the Opposition are doing. The main argument they advance is a purely poUtical argument, which has nothing to do with reality or the quality of education. The Opposition's argument most certainly has nothing to do with the quality produced by the education system which is certainly superior in this nation. One of the great mistakes that are committed by Queensland schools—particularly secondary schools—is their adoption of the belief that they have to be everything to every man. I am concerned about the widespread belief that Queensland schools have to provide everything and that, regardless of the school a student may attend, the curriculum should offer subjects such as music, manual arts, catering, etc. The reality is that schools cannot afford to offer every subject. Honourable members would do well to examine the service provisions of the Health portfoUo. Not every hospital in Queensland has a heart transplant unit; not every hospital has a liver transplant unit; and not every hospital in Queensland has a renal transplant unit. Similarly, many of the subjects taught in schools are so highly specialised that they ought not be offered in every school but, rather, should be offered in particular schools that can become centres of excellence in particular fields. In that way, students can participate in the high level of investment and resources, as well as benefit from teachers who are specially employed at such a school. I urge the Department of Education, where applicable—and I emphasise "where appUcable" because I realise that the suggestion I am about to make will be appUcable only to some schools—to adopt a clustering system for a number of schools. The schools could become centres of excellence for certain types of educational activity. For example, let me suggest the clustering of Cavendish Road State High School, Holland Park State High School, Mount Gravatt State High School, Mansfield State High School and the Macgregor State High School as a high school cluster. All those schools are situated close together and transport from one to another is easy. Currently, the Holland Park State High School is not readily able to offer music at the senior level simply because the number of students who wish to take music is insufficient. The school cannot afford to provide a teacher for four or five students. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2245

Therefore, I suggest that schools situated in a cluster should be designated as centres of excellence in particular fields. I believe, for example, that the Macgregor State High School could become a centre of excellence for performing arts such as film and television, music, theatre and dance. The school has the facilities to offer those subjects at first-class level. Moreover, I believe that a school such as Mansfield State High School could become a centre of excellence in mathematics and science. The department could pour additional facilities into that school to ensure that computer facilities, for example, were among the best that could be made available. I believe also that a school such as the Cavendish Road State High School could specialise in vocationally oriented education and it could become a centre of excellence for manual arts, catering and home economics subjects. If such a proposal were implemented, it would basicaUy mean two things: firstly, courses would become more viable and more economical and, instead of having seven students in music at Holland Park State High School, six students studying music at Mount Gravatt State High School and eight students studying music at the Mansfield State High School, all those students could be brought together in one centre of excellence. Secondly, staff could be concentrated at the centre and resources could be saved. More importantly, the centre could be built up so that it would attract students from the areas surrounding the cluster of schools. I believe that the result of such an innovation could only be a vast improvement in terms of services offered by the schools in areas such as those represented by the honourable member for Mansfield and me. The next matter I wish to mention is one that I have referred to in the past. It has been regarded as a serious matter and I would like it to be examined again in the future. I am convinced that students in Year 9 are not able to make career choices in terms of curriculum offerings. I am strongly committed to the view that the choice at Year 9 should be delayed and that the choice of career should not be made until the student reaches Year 10. Years 8 and 9 in all secondary schools throughout Queensland should be years during which only general secondary education is undertaken. The only choices that should be made in Year 9, as opposed to Year 8, should be choices in foreign languages. Obviously, some students do not show a great degree of ability in foreign languages. A small range of choices could be offered to ensure that students are not forced into taking courses for which they are not well suited. However, I believe very strongly that a need exists for a system to be introduced to delay the career choices that students have to make until Year 10. They should not be made in Year 9 at all. Based on my experience of having worked in a similar system at the Indooroopilly State High School—where I was very impressed with both the end-product and the way in which the school could be organised—I am convinced that the system I have referred to is a very good system and I have no hesitation in promoting it. I particularly want to support strongly a point made by the honourable member for Fassifern in relation to participation in extra-curricular activities at school. I believe that very strong policy statements should be issued by the Department of Education, setting out the department's expectations of teachers participating in extra-curricular activities. The fact of the matter is—and I am sure that the honourable member for Fassifem would back me up—that the welfare of the vast majority of students in schools in relation to sport, etc., is carried on the shoulders of a small number of very highly committed teachers. I believe that every teacher should have a commitment to take some form of extra-curricular activities. That should be part and parcel of a teacher's employment contract. Currently this is not done, although I know that teachers are required to do playground duty. I have never taught in a State high school where the policy has been that teachers are required to conduct extra-curricular activities. If necessary, teachers should be made to do this and the welfare of students should not rest solely on the shoulders of a small number of highly committed and dedicated teachers. It is the job of all teachers to contribute to the school community and that contribution should also occur in the area of extra-curricular activities. I turn now to comment upon the employment of teacher graduates. Time and time again honourable members in this Chamber talk about the failure of the Queensland 2246 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Government to employ teacher graduates. There is no difference between a graduate in law, medicine, dentistry or forestry and a graduate in teaching; each is a graduate and the only difference is that each has a different skill. The Queensland Govemment is under no obligation or has no commitment to employ any graduate with any skill whatsoever. That is not the role of Govemment. The argument that is put forward that somehow or other this Govemment has an obligation to employ teacher graduates is as absurd as saying that it has an obligation to employ medical, dentistry, forestry, arts and economics graduates. I know that that is the type of society that some members of the Opposition would dearly love; in other words the State becomes the sole employer. That is not a viable or valid argument. This State Govemment does not have an obligation to employ anyone. It is under no obligation whatsoever. Graduates take the risk. If they do not get a job, it is tough luck. Nonetheless, I wish to congratulate the Queensland Govemment on its record for the employment of teacher graduates, which is the finest in Australia. The members of this Government can hold their heads high. Queensland is not the worst in Australia and is certainly a lot better than many of the Labor States. Finally, I wish to comment on a radio interview that was held this morning with Rod Henshaw involving the honourable member for Mount Coot-tha. Today I leamed something very interesting; that the total credit for the recent announcement of the extra places in tertiary education must go solely to the honourable member for Mount Coot- tha for his efforts. I do not know how he could sit there, keep a straight face and maintain that he is responsible for it, when everyone knows that the contribution of the honourable member for Mount Coot-tha was midway between minus one and plus one. For those honourable members who do not know mathematics, that is zero, which was precisely his contribution. Mr Simpson: Intoxicated by his own bath water. Mr HENDERSON: That is probably correct. It is amazing that he could keep a straight face in the midst of all this. It is interesting that the ABC could broadcast such trash without being challenged. I do not believe that the Queensland Govemment has anything to apologise for in the area of education. Queensland education is in a very sound state indeed and produces some of the best students of any Australian education system. That means that Queens­ land's education system must be functioning well. I take pride in being able to state that the Queensland education system is amongst the finest in Australia. It will continue to be amongst the finest in Australia. This Govemment has nothing whatsoever to apologise for and a great deal to be proud of Mr HAMILL (Ipswich) (9.27 p.m.): It grieves me to listen to the comments made by the honourable member for Mount Gravatt. He states in this Chamber that the Queensland Govemment has nothing to apologise for in the education system. The Queensland Govemment is the lowest spending Govemment in Australia per capita on education. The honourable member stated that the Queensland Government has nothing to be apologetic for because it denies young people in this State the resources and opportunities to ensure that they receive a quality education. For the last three years the Opposition has been consistently advocating that the Queensland Govemment acknowledge responsibility for the expansion of higher education places in this State and this evening members on the Govemment side of the Chamber have the temerity to say that the Govemment makes no apology for denying thousands of young Queenslanders the opportunity to further their education in Queensland's colleges of advanced education or universities. Mr Sherrin: Shame! Mr HAMILL: Yes, it is a shame, and it will be a shame that the honourable member for Mansfield, as a member of this Government, will bear as he goes to the polls next year. Once again he will find himself looking for a job in the Education Department. I am sure that my colleague Mr Braddy will have to think long and hard Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2247 before he would consider employing a person such as the honourable member for Mansfield, because he is culpable in denying young Queenslanders the opportunity of further education in this State. Mr R. J. Gibbs: But Mr Braddy is a man of compassion. Mr HAMILL: Mr Braddy is a man of compassion, but I am sure that he will still have to think long and hard about the likes of the honourable member for Mansfield. If honourable members are to consider the Estimates of this department this evening, they must look at the backdrop of this piece of theatre. The Minister for Education comes into this Chamber touting the vision of excellence and the great achievements of the education system in this State. However, like every piece of theatre, there must be a backdrop, and the backdrop in this Chamber is the most morbid and depressing scenery indeed. In 1987 the Govemment of which this Minister was a part presented a Budget, which he endorsed—he claimed it was a very enthraUing, engaging document—that provided for a 7 per cent real cut in education expenditure in this State. Mr Littleproud: Didn't you listen to me? Mr HAMILL: I say to the Minister that that was the sort of cut that he endorsed. He endorsed a $84m cut to the budget of the State's schools. Mr Littleproud is the sort of Minister who acquiesced in a $84m cut to the budget of the State's pre-schools and primary and secondary schools. He is the same Minister who came before this Assembly earlier this year claiming a piece of the vision of excellence—his piece of the vision of excellence was a $4m increase in the Education budget for 1987-88. Mr Littleproud was very proud to administer a $80m cut to the budget of our schools this year. If he is proud of that, all I can say is that small things can please small people. I for one was not very impressed with his performance as Minister for Education, nor indeed with that of his predecessor who participated in the most savage cuts that our Queensland education system has endured for a very long time. Let me remind honourable members on this side of the Chamber and particularly those opposite what sorts of cuts and what sorts of hardships were inflicted upon the education system in this State thanks to the Budget that this Minister endorsed in this place little more than 12 months ago. Does anyone remember this Minister coming out in his early days as a Minister and saying that the $4m that he had achieved as part of the vision of excellence will mean an additional 718 teachers this year? Like so much of the vision of excellence, it is all front and no substance. I am sure the Minister will remember that I asked him a question in this place Mr Littleproud: You only asked one in six months. Mr HAMILL: I am very hopefiil that I will be able to ask my second question in this place in 12 months, such is the abuse of the system of question-time in the Queensland Parliament. The Minister has nothing to be proud of in the way that the Govemment abuses question-time. Mr Davis: He has had six Dorothy Dix questions in the last three weeks. Mr HAMILL: Yes, and he does not even know who asked them. They all came from his department. Here is the mb. On 21 April this year I asked the Minister a question about staffing numbers in Queensland schools. He ought to have been able to say that there had been no reduction in staffing numbers because that was the promise in the Budget that he as a member of this Government endorsed. But what did he say? "Dunno." Mr Littleproud: You asked it on notice and I gave you an answer. 2248 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Mr HAMILL: The Minister as a matter of courtesy replied by letter. It was a question on notice and it took him a month to reply. At least I got a reply, which is better than other Ministers have been able to do. Mr Littleproud: The House got up. Mr HAMILL: It was asked on notice and the Minister had the opportunity to answer the next day. In his response the Minister was able to provide some very interesting data indeed. This was data on the 12-month period for which his Government had promised no staffing reductions. The written answer revealed that there were 500 fewer teachers in Queensland State schools at the end of Febmary this year compared with the number at the end of the 1986-87 financial year. That mn-down had occurred despite the commitment of his Government and, indeed, of the Ahem administration to maintain staff numbers in this State. The drop in teacher numbers was most pronounced in the primary school sector, in which there were 400 fewer teachers at the start of the school year compared with the number at July 1987. The answer also revealed a drastic cut­ back in specialist staff and, overall, it revealed that there had been a serious loss of expertise and teachers to the whole education system. All that is in the context of a Govemment that allegedly had committed itself to maintaining staff numbers in Queens­ land schools in 1987-88. But we also saw the other effects of the Budget that this Minister and his cohorts endorsed last year. Mr Palaszczuk: Who are the cohorts? Mr HAMILL: Look at them all. The only one who is missing spiritually and intellectually from the Chamber is the former Premier, because these days they all disown him. Mr Scott: His mark is still on their foreheads. It sits there firmly. Mr HAMILL: The mark of the beast is hard to erase. Not only did the Education budget attack staff numbers but also it attacked the resources and the materials available in Queensland schools. A cut of more than 10 per cent was inflicted upon our primary and secondary schools in terms of the provision of resources and materials. P. and c. associations were outraged at the cuts to library grants and teacher-aide hours were slashed mercilessly in both primary and secondary schools. All in all it was a disaster for the education system in this State. So the new Minister was put in place and he tried to restore the Govemment's stocks among the education community of Queensland. What did he do? He indulged in another piece of theatre, another exercise in deception and another exercise in building false expectations among the education community in Queensland. In the 1988-89 Budget the Minister boasted a massive increase in education spending, but what is it? It is an 8.3 per cent increase in money terms. Mr Wells: Pitiful. Mr HAMILL: It is pitiful, particularly when it is remembered that last year there was a 7 per cent real cut in education spending in Queensland. This year's expenditure is only a marginal improvement over what was one of the darkest years in budgetary allocation for Queensland. Mr Scott: And what is at stake—the future of our children! Mr HAMILL: Absolutely! It is the future of our children, the employment prospects for young teacher graduates and the future of p. and c. associations, which are hard pressed endeavouring to try to meet the demands placed upon them by an Education Department that does not believe in providing adequate funding to maintain an adequate level of services or an adequate level of resources in Queensland schools. Mr Scott: So it is indirect taxation of the p. and c. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2249

Mr HAMILL: It is indirect taxation of p. and c. organisations. The vision of excellence is but a mirage for those who are having to dig deep into their pockets. Mr Palaszczuk: Henry Lawson's vision splendid. Mr HAMILL: This year of the vision of excellence we have had over 60 000 young Queensland kids in classes which are oversized by the bench-marks established by the Ahem Select Committee on Education. Thanks to the Ahem Budget, we now have a promise of 522 additional teachers. Mr Palaszczuk: How many? Mr HAMILL: 522, which is hardly adequate to meet the shortfall of last year and hardly adequate to meet the stresses placed upon class rooms in this State owing to the increasing retention rates in Years 11 and 12 and the increased numbers in Years 1 and 2. Let me look at my own electorate. I hear statements from the Premier claiming that there will be an increase in the allocation for teacher aides, yet when I look closely at the fine print I find that no school in my electorate will have the deficiency in teacher aides, which was inflicted by last year's Budget, redressed in this year's Budget. I ask the Minister: how can the people of Queensland have faith in a National Party Govemment which continues to inflict deprivation and at the same time claims that education is getter a better deal? I turn to capital works. The capital works budget is a very important facet of the overall education spending in this State. Last year, as an adjunct to the education budget, $lllm was spent on education capital works in Queensland. This year, $50m wiU be spent on capital works. In my electorate, a new music block has been completed at the Bremer State High School. It has taken a very long time. Yet I find it absolutely scandalous to think that at that same high school there are still temporary class rooms which are covered-in recreation areas for students. Mr Ardill: They're good enough, according to the member for Mount Gravatt. Mr HAMILL: They have been good enough for that school for over 20 years. That is what he is saying. There is no apology for the fact that students at schools in my electorate have to put up with substandard accommodation for almost a quarter of a century. That is the proud record of this National Party Government, and it was no better when the Liberals were in coalition. Mr Elliott: It was much worse when you guys were in Government. Have a look at what went on then. Mr HAMILL: The child member from Cunningham remembers deep into his long past. It is now 31 years since a Labor Govemment was in Queensland. I find it quite extraordinary that members of the National Party can try to blame a Govemment of four decades ago. Can the honourable member say in all conscience that a Govemment that has held sway in Queensland for over three decades ought not have been able to set the record straight? Can he say that a Govemment that has held sway for three decades ought not be held culpable for the deficiencies in the education system which are not able to cope with the pressures of the 1980s, and the 1990s to come? At another high school in my electorate the p. and c. association has been raising money from the school canteen to provide an assembly hall. As I have said previously in this place, it is scandalous that schools in this State do not have the basic infrastmcture of assembly halls and adequate sporting facilities as part of the basic fabric. Yet the p. and c. associations are having to raise the money through the canteens, the lamington drives and the raffles. Mr Elliott: They just got a massive increase.

81405—77 2250 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Mr HAMILL: A massive increase! The school in question will receive a subsidy of $184,000, and it will have to raise almost twice that amount from its own resources. It is a scandal to think that parents have to fork out from their own pockets to meet the shortfall of capital funding from the Queensland Government. I will look at one of the more fundamental aspects of funding for Queensland schools—textbook allowances. In 1987, the following amounts were payable to students by way of textbook aUowance: $53 for Year 8, $65 for Year 9, $38 for Year 10, $110 for Year 11, and $45 for Year 12. In 1988, inflation demanded a 6 per cent increase in that allowance to maintain the spending value of that money. What happened? There was no increase whatsoever. This year, there were increases for Years 8 to 12 of $56, $68, $41, $115, and $47 respectively. However, if we were to maintain the spending value of those allowances for the year of 1987 in the year 1989 to come. Year 8 allowance would be over $74, which is a 9.1 per cent increase for that allowance per student. A Year 10 student would receive over $43 for textbook allowance, which is an increase of 5.8 per cent per student. A Year 11 student—this is a good example—would receive over $15 more, a 9.2 per cent increase, to maintain the spending value of that allowance from 1987. And a Year 12 student would receive over $51, which is a 9.3 per cent increase. That is the sort of penny-pinching, anti-family, anti-student, anti-education attitude that we have come to expect from this Minister and the Queensland Govemment. This Govemment is anti-family and anti-education, and it shows in its pinch-penny attitudes. On a lighter note—and I am afraid one is hard-pressed to examine the Education budget in Queensland and find a lighter note—I am thankful that the Queensland Govemment has finally adopted the propositions which I put forward in this Parliament three years ago to support higher education in this State. The Victorian Govemment established a Victorian education foundation. That Govemment recognised its responsibility to provide for the future of young Victorians. The Victorian Govemment, unlike the Queensland Govemment, was not prepared to stand aside and see young people fmstrated in their attempts to achieve a higher education. It stepped into the breech and ensured that young Victorians had more opportunity to achieve a higher education. The Victorian Govemment put up moneys from its own resources, in conjunction with industry, to achieve that end. I am pleased that the Minister, as a slow leamer, has adopted the same proposal three or four years later. It is a great credit to the Minister that he, as a slow leamer, is now standing head and shoulders above his ministerial colleagues. Obviously it does not take the Minister all that long to catch onto a concept. This concept that the Minister has now caught onto is one which the Opposition proposed three years ago. The Opposition saw great opportunities by funding higher education in Queensland. That is why it advanced that proposal three years ago. I am pleased that at the Bundamba TAFE coUege in my electorate higher-education places have been established. It is a recognition that young people are our future and that they are entitled to a future that the Queensland Govemment wiU belatedly come to the party this year to augment the 3 000 additional places in Queensland that are to be funded by the Federal Govemment. Mr ELLIOTT (Cunningham) (9.47 p.m.): In rising to support the Minister in the presentation of his Estimates I want to touch on a couple of subjects. First of all, I will talk briefly about what might be termed a parish pump issue concerning my electorate and the moneys that have been provided in the Budget for the provision of facilities in various parts of the State. One of the problems in my area.concems the Oakey State High School and the necessity for principals at that school to have their famiUes with them. The family of the most recent principal of that school stayed in Brisbane. Obviously that family had a lot of problems. I think one of the reasons for this was that the residence in Oakey Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2251 really was not up to scratch. I think that is something that the Govemment needs to seriously consider. Money is required to upgrade that residence. The other day, I spoke to the regional director about this matter. I would appreciate it if the Minister would give the matter some consideration because I beUeve another principal will be arriving at that school next year. It is to be hoped that he wiU be able to live with his family in Oakey and participate in the community to the fiiUest. I think that the Minister knows fuU well what I am talking about. It probably has not helped in the past that that residence has not really been up to scratch. I ask that the Minister and his department seriously consider that matter and ensure that the new principal is able to be supported to the nth degree. It is to be hoped that the community will then in tum support him. That is the way it works. I want to allude to the decision that has been made in respect of p. and c. associations raising money. The previous speaker spoke about it at great length. I am happy to go on record at any time and say that it is my opinion that the p. and c. association and the people who are associated with a school, whether they have children at the school or are simply friends of the school, should be able to raise funds. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the concept of their going out into the community and raising funds. Mr Henderson: They enjoy doing it. Mr ELLIOTT: That is spot on. Many people in the community enjoy doing that. I can introduce honourable members to many people in the community who enjoy raising fiinds. Mr Davis: They are forced to do it. Mr ELLIOTT: They are not forced to do it at all. They enjoy doing it. Just because the member for Brisbane Central does not enjoy working does not mean that no-one else enjoys working. That might be unique to the member for Brisbane Central. Mr Davis: Nobody likes to go out and raise money. Mr ELLIOTT: People enjoy it. Perhaps the member for Brisbane Central has to go and beg alms outside the pubs in his electorate, but that is not the way it works in other places. Raising fiinds is part and parcel of the social activity in my area. The Govemment took on board the equilibrium, one might say, between what was being raised by p. and c. associations and the contribution that was being made by the Govemment. The Government took on board that the community would be very appreciative if that level of Govemment contribution was Ufted. I support the decision to do that. I think that was quite reasonable in view of the increased revenue that was raised through stamp duty and the increased tum-over in the property market. I think it was a decision that was well made. However, I go on record as saying that it would not be my opinion that the Govemment should ever give all of those funds to schools and p. and c. associations purely and simply to allow people to walk right away from all responsibiUty for their children. That would be anathema to me. I think it is absolutely disgraceful to even suggest such a thing. People only appreciate what they feel they have achieved to some degree themselves. Mr Simpson: It is a co-operative effort. Mr ELLIOTT: As the honourable member said, it is a co-operative effort, and honourable members need to be mindftil of that. I have seen at first hand the new Minister's approach and the way in which he has gone about his Ministry. He handles his portfolio exceptionally well. The Minister realises that it is important to discuss issues and to consult with the people. He has visited my electorate and discussed issues with the people who are involved in schools in my area. 2252 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

I appreciate that. It is most important for the Minister to do that. If someone is not prepared to discuss with people a subject as emotional as education, he will undoubtedly find himself at loggerheads with people because of their attitude to education. I pay a tribute to the Minister for carrying out his duties very well. He understands the problems that have been encountered. Because of the background that some people have in education, they understand the problems very well, as do many people in the department, teachers and members of this Assembly. The incumbent Minister has an attribute slightly different from that of other Ministers inasmuch as he is probably more practical in some respects because of his background. He has had to work on the land, particularly with his hands, and he knows what it is to work. I have agreed to shorten my speech so that other members may be able to speak to the Minister's Estimates. I record my appreciation of the assistance that has been afforded to me in my electorate. I look forward to a continuation of that co-operation in the fiiture. Mr SHERLOCK (Ashgrove) (9.55 p.m.): I am pleased to join in the debate and to say a few words about the needs of young people. Amongst other things, in 1978 I was involved in an Australiawide survey for the scout association, which sought to find out the expectations and needs of young people. Mr Temporary Chairman, you will recall that in 1985 I chaired an International Youth Year committee in this State. It might be interesting to recall and identify some of the needs that young people expressed to the committee at that time. They expressed concem about their recreation, education, health, accommodation and prospects of employment and about the law and legal problems. They also expressed concern about the threat of nuclear war and the emerging scourge of AIDS. I guess that if we asked them today, they would express concem about the greenhouse effect. One of the concerns that they all expressed was the need for someone to take care of them, to express some care and to show that they are loved. My advice to families and to those work with young people would be to do just that: to show young people that we do care about them and that we are prepared to listen to them and to listen to their needs. The needs of young people cover all portfoUos; they are not restricted only to Education, Sport or welfare. There is an advantage in Governments seriously considering the establishment of interdepartmental committees to address specifically the needs of young people. Whilst I understand the sensitivities and the practicalities that would bring heads of departments together, there is much to be gained by bringing together in all the Govemment departments those at middle-management level. I hope that this might be one of the suggestions that the Minister takes on board. If middle management can be brought together at interdepartmental level, the Govemment will really take some strides in bringing about the provision of services to young people. Mr Temporary Chairman, you would be aware that I have had some experience in youth work over some 30 years. Honourable members know that the Division of Youth has been transferred from the Education Department to the Department of Family Services. It might be well to recall that in 1981, Mr White, who was the Minister for Family and Welfare Services, set up a ministerial advisory committee on youth affairs. I believe that the present Minister has done that in his department. I was a member of Mr White's committee and of committees established by Mr Muntz and Mrs Chapman. As I understand it, I still remain a member of that committee. Although that committee has not met for some time, it has not been discharged. Indeed, it has not been thanked. Whilst I am not looking for any personal acknowledgement in that regard, it would be courteous of the Govemment, at least to the department, to thank those leaders of various youth organisations throughout the State for the work that they put in. I shall cite an example. As a result of the recommendations that Intemational Youth Year made in 1985, a report was commissioned by the Department of Welfare and Family Services on the needs of homeless youth in Queensland. Mrs Patricia Smith was seconded to the department. She worked for over a year to produce a report, which was never tabled. However, copies of it do exist. I do not know where the report is. I ask Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2253 the Minister whether the report will be made available or whether it will become a report such as the Sturgess report and so many others and be put aside by the Govemment. I draw the attention of the Minister to the report on homeless youth in Queensland, which is the subject of a great need at present. The report deals not only with the needs of those in socio-economic plight, or with the needs of those who have been kicked out of home or abused, but also with the needs of young, well-educated people from middle- class backgrounds and caring families who, for whatever reason, have left home and are seeking independence. All of those subjects are dealt with in the report. I pay a tribute to Mrs Patricia Smith for the work that she did. The report has been well researched and is well presented and well documented. However, it was certainly not weU read. I congratulate the Minister on the positive things that his department does, and does weU. In particular, I draw attention to the capital works subsidy provided to all sorts of youth organisations and sporting bodies throughout this State. That subsidy is restricted to 20 per cent. It used to be 33'/3 per cent. It is paid to organisations such as the Mitchelton Youth Club, for which the Minister opened an extension a week or two ago. That facility cost $165,000. The sum of $80,000 was raised by the club and $33,000 was provided by the Govemment. I am referring to the Sid Loder Centre at Mitchelton. I acknowledge the good work that has been done by people such as David Travers, John Woodford, the patron John Greenwood and, before him, Roy Harvey, a former Lord Mayor of Brisbane. Other organisations have been mentioned during this debate, including mral youth, guides and sporting clubs. I wish to speak with some authority about the Scout Association. Mr Palaszczuk: Oh, here we go again! Mr SHERLOCK: As the honourable member would be aware, the Scout Association exists in 150 countries and in 400 communities throughout the State. It has 20 000 members. Mr Palaszczuk: Every speech you make. Mr SHERLOCK: The honourable member should read my other speeches. As I said, that association receives a grant of 20 per cent, which acts as a catalyst for the association, which through blood, sweat and tears, raises funds to provide facilities all over the State, including buildings, camp sites and activity centres. I draw the attention of this Assembly to the model that was set up in 1981 to seek major funding for the Scout Association's headquarters program at Auchenflower, which would be well known to several honourable members. At the time of that proposal, the Minister, Mr White, was approached and informed of our requirements and funding needs over a three-year period. The Govemment, through Mr White and his successors, made available to the Scout Association a sum of $138,000, which had a multiplier effect and was the catalyst for the erection of a building worth $600,000 or $700,000 but built by project management for a fraction of the cost. The advice that I would give to sporting bodies or youth organisations throughout the State is that Government departments need to be given notice of major projects and the particular needs of those associations, which is just good planning. I tum now to welfare support. The real role of Govemment is not just to hand out welfare; it is to recognise and encourage voluntary organisations. Honourable members would be aware that many organisations in their electorates contribute a lot of time and effort in the work that they do and their efforts go unsung. The role of Govemment is not to provide services but to provide opportunities for people who are prepared to work hard and make things happen. I seek leave to incorporate in Hansard a summary of a proposal in relation to a community citizenship program. Leave granted. 2254 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

THE SCOUT ASSOCIATION OF AUSTRALIA QUEENSLAND BRANCH SUMMARY OF PROPOSAL OBJECTIVE: To provide assistance and encouragement to young people in special areas to enable them to take a constructive place in society as responsible citizens. STRATEGY: The strategy for this new Program is based on: Preventing the occurrence of misbehaviour rather than trying to treat it after it has occurred; The provision of constructive, educational and recreational activities; The provision of key paid Leaders to provide the adult leadership in selective communities where history exists of inability to obtain key volunteer Leaders. METHOD: It is proposed that the Association employ a Project Officer, inculcated with the ideals of Scouting, who has the organisational and leadership abilities to generate the interest and nurture Scouting in these special areas until the Group can operate independently. There are a number of other adult Leaders, Rovers and lay personnel such as the Baden Powell Guild who are prepared to initially assist the Project Officer so that the local youth will benefit from the Scouting experience. COST: As you can appreciate the cost of such a scheme is not cheap, especially for an Association such as ours, to undertake. However, we believe the rewards of helping to improve the potential of the disadvantaged youth members in the community is sufficient justification. Besides Branch funds being directed towards the project, scouting members throughout the State are also contributing in various ways to the establishment of a fund to assist those less fortunate to enjoy the benefits of Scouting. Estimated costs of a proposal include: Project Officer $30,000.00 Cost of maintenance and provision of vehicle $26,000.00 Provision of equipment and promotional material $10,000.00 Administration $5,750.00 Mr SHERLOCK: Young people have much to contribute to Queensland in the future. EquaUy as important is the fact that young people have much to contribute now to Queensland. The more that we relate to and deal with young people, the more we realise the salient point that those people have skills in their present stage of development. I hope that any Government policy that is implemented provides for young people by promoting their personal development and fiiUymaximisin g their individual potential. The State Govemment must ensure the provision of services for young people so that they have access to information and opportunities to achieve potential in their work, leisure and personal development. In a contribution to Govemment a Liberal Party would maintain the Division of Youth as a separate department. That is necessary in order to function and provide necessary services, to provide encouragement to voluntary organisations and to hamess that people power. The Government should consider the retum of the Division of Youth to the Family Services portfolio. I am not in any way denigrating the work that the Minister, Mr Littleproud, is doing. He is doing a great job and I support him in everything that he does. I certainly support the department. Perhaps the Family Services portfolio is more sensitive to the social needs of young people. After aU, the needs of young people are not just about education or training, which is very important when young people are looking for jobs and finding their way in the world. I favour a multidepart- mental approach rather than a single department. In the future, the possibility of forming an interdepartmental stmcture that will allow policies to be implemented at the workface level should be considered. Such a stmcture would deliver not only services to young people but also opportunities for them. Many priorities can be considered. As to education and training—last week I visited the Speaker's electorate and inspected the Hervey Bay Senior College. At the time that that college was constmcted, the Speaker was the relevant Minister. I congratulate him on that very fine institution. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2255

My coUeague Mr Schuntner has done the very same thing in his electorate. I congratulate the director and the staff of that college on the work that they are doing, particularly in a one-to-one situation with young people. I envisage more and more ventures of that type being undertaken throughout the State. I point out to honourable members that 1989 wUl be the IGth anniversary of the Intemational Year of the Child. I understand that next year, UNICEF and another organisation that is known as the Defence of ChUdren Intemational will be presenting to the United Nations a charter or convention on the rights of the chUd, which will seek to protect the rights of children in a similar fashion to the way in which World Heritage authorities are being asked to protect sensitive environmental regions in various countries. I do not have the opportunity here to argue the pros and cons of whether that is a good thing or not. However, thank God that this country does not need an intemational convention to protect the rights of its chUdren. Nevertheless, I believe that that convention—that charter—has much to applaud it. It will be recalled that a month or two ago in the House I read into Hansard the rights of the child as enshrined in the constitution of the worldwide Save the Children Fund. The rights in this document that will come before the United Nations next year include such things as the right of protection against maltreatment, the right of protection of one's name and one's nationality and the right not to be conscripted to go to war. Thank God that this country does not have conscription any more. But, of course, that is not so in some other countries. I guess that the bottom line is that a convention such as that is not needed in a country such as ours if Govemments do the job, if Governments provide the services and if Govemments make the opportunity available for organisations to play their part in a voluntary way. Young people do have much to give to society in the future. They are our greatest natural resource. As I said earlier, they have very much to offer now. Mr SIMPSON (Cooroora) (10.09 p.m.): It is with pleasure that I support the Education Estimates. I congratulate the Minister on his attitude to education and on his general practical, commonsense application to that task. Mr Scott: He's a theorist, a long way from the practical side of the department. Mr SIMPSON: No, not like the academic Left in the ALP, which has no relationship with the workers; it has absolutely left them. That is why the Labor Party will lose the next Federal election. During this debate much has been said about how Queensland spends less per capita on education than is expended in other States. Queensland spends far more than what is expended per capita in other countries of the world that have far better performance in terms of education. I refer to countries such as Japan, South Korea and Taiwan. I suggest that another ingredient must be considered if the Govemment is to receive tme value for its dollar and to proceed to place a tme value on education. The whole community—all of us—has to be fair dinkum about education. The greatest shortfall in education today is the attitude of children to the atmosphere of good leaming. It is not a matter of how much money is poured into the class room, it is whether in fact students have the right attitude towards the leaming process. When undisciplined chUdren cause people to reflect on the standards of the community a great need exists for increased educational performance. Students in schools in countries such as Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea have a total dedication to the learning process. Mr Palaszczuk: Robot leaming. Mr SIMPSON: It is not robot leaming at all. The honourable member does not know what he is talking about. Under our system teachers are told not to touch the kids if they play up. A few students abuse the system and take things out on good teachers. There are casualties 2256 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) among the teachers who cannot bear that pressure. That pressure should not be there at all. That is one of the problems facing the Government because it does not receive value for money. That attitude should not exist. Professional teachers, headmasters and administrators know that. It is a problem that is not easily overcome. It requires a change in attitudes right back in the community. Some members of the community are very ready to say, "Yes, it is another kid who mucks up the class room, but don't you touch my little Johnny or Mary. They have to be able to express themselves and laugh and carry on and dismpt the class room." Problem children do those things in the class rooms. That reduces the performance of other students in the class. I want to point out why a university is needed urgently on the Sunshine Coast. It is interesting to note that 5 483 students from the Sunshine Coast catchment area presently attend tertiary education institutions. It is interesting to note that 2 863 students from the Gold Coast catchment area, where the Bond University is being built, attend tertiary education institutions. That number is approximately 50 per cent of those on the Sunshine Coast. The figures of those students from the Sunshine Coast catchment area and the Gold Coast catchment area attending CAEs and universities are set out in the following table— CAE University Sunshine Coast (Maroochy, Noosa and Landsborough Shires) 639 664 Widgee Shire and Gympie 141 96 Kilcoy and Caboolture 84 57 Upper Bumett/Kilkivan 294 133 Pine Rivers/Lawnton 879 713 Wide Bay/Bumett/Bundaberg 1 132 651 Total 5 483 Gold Coast City 613 759 Peripheral area behind and adjacent to Gold Coast City 549 632 Greater peripheral area to Brisbane city area .... 153 157 Total 2 863 It is interesting to note that already the number of students is twice what it was expected to be and that, more importantly, this venture overcomes the problem of education-funding. Unfortunately for a private-enterprise Government, a lack of vision prevents the provision of educational resources that are so badly needed. A university should be established on the Sunshine Coast because it would be immediately filled to overflowing. The area has such a beautiful climate that a university would attract students from all over Australia. The basic requirements are already available. Approximately 1 800 acres of forestry land are laying idle and producing nothing. In fact, the forestry plantation I refer to is costing the Govemment money that is being spent on administration and forestry management. If only half that area were made available for sale to establish a joint private enterprise and Government venture, the constmction of a university on the Sunshine Coast would be a very successful undertaking. The land I refer to is well situated; it is adjacent to the Bmce Highway; it is close to Nambour; and it is within walking distance of an electric rail service. It would be a magnificent site. The area is undulating and is similar to the land on which the University of Launceston is situated, although it is not so steep. If the Government were to adopt the suggestion I have made, the Sunshine Coast could be provided with a university that would attract business, opportunities and the further migration to Queensland of people wishing to visit their children who are attending the university. Tonight, a meeting is taking place to set in train the preliminary educational and business courses that will be the foremnner to the establishment of a complete university curriculum. The point I wish to emphasise is that residents of the Sunshine Coast area Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2257 could have a university established very quickly in spite of the $52m that would be required for the costs of development. I believe that the Govemment should co-operate with private enterprise in the establishment of a university on the Sunshine Coast. I believe that that is the way the Govemment should go. Briefly, I mention the need for refinement of the bus transportation system that provides a service for schoolchildren. I understand that the Minister is giving consideration to this problem. Driver education should be regarded as a program conducted during extended school hours instead of being a course that competes with other conventional courses during school hours, bearing in mind the demands made upon the education system to provide high-quality instmction. Queensland should benefit from the experience of overseas countries. In Japan, driver-training is carried out in shopping centres on Saturday momings and a driver's licence costs approximately $1,500. Most honourable members would know that a six-day working week operates in Japan and that the attitude of the Japanese towards education is so much more positive than the attitude adopted by Queenslanders, which is a fact that all Queenslanders should face up to. The Minister has instigated a trial of permanent part-time work in education. I think that is a great idea. I think also that teachers should be employed on merit and that the education system should provide for re-entry of qualified, expert teachers who left the teaching service to raise families but now wish to take up teaching again. Many well-trained teachers who wish to re-enter the teaching service have a great deal to contribute to the education system. Tonight, mention has been made of p. and c. associations. A lack of experience and a lack of practicality were demonstrated by Opposition members when they criticised the necessity for activities of p. and c. associations. Opposition members dismiss fiind- raising out of hand. They say it is wrong and that it is not an appropriate activity for p. and c. associations to be engaged in. The Opposition advocates the establishment of a program of education and advisory committees that would consult with school principals on the way in which education courses should be conducted. Apparently, members of the Opposition arranged for experts to address p. and c. association meetings. Although those p. and c. association meetings had been previously well attended, the introduction of expert educators into the role of the p. and c. association completely killed off the enthusiasm of the parents. That example demonstrates that expert involvement was not what the p. and c. association wanted. Its members have reverted to grassroots involvement of the community, and base their activities on the interest they take in the school and on providing special or additional facilities. Mr Scott: Fund-raising! Mr SIMPSON: The socialists on the Opposition side of the Chamber do not understand what I am saying. They concentrate on fiind-raising as an abhorrent term which is a synonym for profit in their view. As far as the Opposition is concemed, fiind- raising is an activity that p. and c. associations should never be engaged in. Members of the Opposition are not aware of the good work carried out in the community by p. and c. associations that involves parents in matters affecting the school and interests people in the wider community. Mr Scott: Saving your Govemment money. Mr SIMPSON: Members of the Opposition lose their whole perspective and do not realise the process of involvement of parents in the community. Without that type of involvement, even if every cent of the cost of education were provided by the Govemment, not nearly as many parents as are presently involved would take an interest in the schools. Opposition members know that, and know also that community involve­ ment is an important factor in education. Scout and Girl Guides Associations were also mentioned, and they are wounderfiil organisations that contribute magnificently to the training of future Queensland citizens. 2258 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

Queensland's lead in providing positive financial assistance for sport is reflected in the per capita subsidisation of training for athletes in both the Commonwealth Games and the Olympic Games. Queensland's allocation for sport is second to none. The mns are on the board. In common with education, irrespective of how much money is spent, the end result in sport is what matters. Because of the wonderful attitude adopted by teachers in Queensland's education system, a positive lead is being taken by Queensland in the education sector. I congratulate the Minister on the attitude that he adopts to the administration of his portfolio and I thank all officers of his department who support the Minister's efforts. Hon. B. G. LITTLEPROUD (Condamine—Minister for Education, Youth and Sport) (10.20 p.m.): I thank all honourable members for the contribution they have made to a rather lengthy and detailed debate. In almost every case, honourable members made a constmctive contribution to the debate. Unfortunately, one member of this Parliament attacked the Director-General. I thought that was rather unfortunate and merely provided the theatrics late in the evening. I thank also the departmental officers who have attended Parliament to listen to the debate and provide me with data and information on the points that have been raised. I have also asked them to make a note of requests made by honourable members. My colleagues on the Govemment side of the Chamber have not only expanded on the initiatives that I have announced in my presentation of the Esitmates but also have spoken with a depth of understanding of matters that are important in their electorates and to education generally. Members opposite made suggestions and com­ ments, raised questions and even bestowed some accolades on the Education Department, and I thank them for that. I intend to speak about the major issues raised during the debate because time constraints prevent my commenting upon all of the issues. Nevertheless, I would like all honourable members to understand that I have taken note of what was said during the debate but I do not have time to comment upon all of it. Members opposite seemed to skirt very quickly round all the initiatives of the 1988- 89 Budget, whereas Govemment members did refer to the intitiatives. Once again in my summary of the debate I will highlight some of this Govemment's initatives. The State Budget was so well received by the public that the Opposition had very little chance to criticise it strongly, and that position continues today. The real problems for education came about in the 1987-88 Federal Budget. Some members alluded to that and spoke almost exclusively on it. Others did not dweU on the point that Queensland's troubles came about because the Commonwealth Govemment cut back funding to all the States in that year, and for Queensland it was to the tune of $157m. Through its 1988-89 State Budget this Government is overcoming some of this jolt, despite the fact that this year the Commonwealth Govemment again cut another $114m off the funding to this State that was expected. The financial acumen of both the Premier and Treasurer and the Minister for Finance helped the State overcome that problem and, as a result, the Queensland Govemment was able to give a high priority to education and improve the situation considerably. I remind honourable members that some of the Budget initiatives included the employment of 522 extra teachers, representing a 2.04 per cent increase in the teacher estabUshment, which is weU in excess of the 1.22 per cent increase in enrolments. The Queensland Government is clawing back that deficiency and the terrible jolt that it suffered in the Federal Budget of 1987-88. Grants to schools were increased by $5m for the rest of this financial year and by $10m in a fuU financial year. This is an increase of 50 per cent, yet the Opposition spokesman called it a facade. The sum of $6m has been allocated to technology, which is part of a $20m package over three years, $15m will be put into tertiary education and there will be a 9.5 per cent increase in funding for non-Govemment schools. I noted that neither the Opposition nor Liberal spokesmen took time to even mention non-Govemment schools. I found that rather surprising. Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2259

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander education has been enhanced, and the honourable member for Cook made much of the fact that new schools have been built in his electorate, especially in the Torres Strait islands. He stated that the Federal Govemment provided money for these schools, but I would remind him that the Education Department in Queensland will keep on providing the teachers. The department has provided teacher housing and the curriculum and its contribution is a major one. However, I wiU not take the credit; this is merely people's money going through different Govemments. The State Govemment is doing a lot for education. Distance education is being expanded, and the honourable member for Mount Coot- tha asked about the amalgamation of various parts of correspondence schools. I assure him that amalgamation is going on and it will all come under the distance-education program, which is being enhanced with the constmction of new centres in places such as CharleviUe, Caims, Mount Isa and possibly one in central Queensland. There has been an increase of 5.5 per cent in sports assistance and a $1.5m aUocation to build school assembly halls in areas that have been waiting to receive a subsidy. All those initiatives make up a great package, and it is no wonder that the public of Queensland easily accepted the State Budget for 1988-89. Overall there has been an increase in funding for education of 11.25 per cent. This is a commendable effort when one considers that the overall increase in consolidated revenue was something of the order of 8.7 per cent. The Opposition spokesman made much of the old oversimplistic argument about dollars per head spent on education and drew comparisons between what is happening in Queensland and what is happening elsewhere in Australia. I was pleased to note the contributions made by the honourable members for Fassifern, Mount Gravatt and Cooroora, who dispelled that oversimplistic argument in a number of ways. I was interested to hear the promises made by the Opposition spokesman that in the future—if ever he became a member of Government—he would raise education expenditure in Queensland to the Australian average. That is an oversimplistic statement to make, and first of all the reality must be judged. The ALP Government in Canberra has the major responsibility for tertiary education, and there was a time when almost 2 per cent of the gross national product went into education. Today it is less than 1 per cent, and the Opposition would have people believe that it can come up with the promise of living up to the Australian average. Mr Lingard spoke about the performance of the ALP when it was in Govemment prior to 1957 and made the very valid point that there was not one new high school built in 30 years. A better measurement of the education system is through standards. This morning I referred to comments made by Mary Kelly, the president of the Australian Teachers Federation and Con Sciacca. Mr Sciacca is one of the ALP Federal members who spoke in glowing terms about what the Queensland Govemment is doing for education. I will quote Mr Sciacca later. The Department of Education deserves commendation for the way in which it delivers a high standard of education at a lower cost per student. It is one of the commercial realities of the world that efficiency of costing must be strived for in either Govemments or the private sector. The people at large are demanding smaller, more efficient and leaner Government. The honourable member for Rockhampton overlooked the role of the Federal Govemment in compounding some of the Queensland Govemment's education-fiinding problems. Since the Federal Government has refused to pay social security benefits to young school-leavers, more young people are retuming to secondary schools to complete Years 11 and 12. If these students happened to live in another State and qualified for Austudy, they could obtain it. The ridiculous situation exists in Queensland that many young people finishing Year 10 have not reached the age of 16 years. They do not qualify for Austudy until they have reached their 16th birthday. There have been repeated 2260 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) calls by myself and other people but we have failed to have any success with the Federal Govemment. The Federal Govemment has exacerbated the (Queensland Govemment's problems by forcing more people to stay at school and then refusing to pay this Govemment any compensation. In addition to that, $5m had to be made available this year as part of a $15m project to make more places in tertiary education available in Queensland, because the Federal Govemment has backed down on its responsibility. After some protracted negotiations—and I will refer to these later—the Queensland Government is starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Nevertheless, it has had to commit $5m to tertiary education that could have been used in the school sector. Before I deal with other Education matters, I wish to touch on Sport and a couple of other smaller parts of my portfolio. The member for Southport spoke at length about the role of the sports assistance scheme. He is well versed in sporting matters, has a good understanding of what exactly is needed and moves in sporting circles. On the other hand, the honourable member for Wolston, Mr R. J. Gibbs, spent most of his time talking about the Olympic bid. I remind him that that is not solely within my jurisdiction. Nevertheless, I could not help thinking that he seemed to be extremely pessimistic. That is the same sort of mood that presented itself when Expo was first mooted. Expo tumed out to be something of great worth to Queensland and it was profitable. I hope that Mr Gibbs' comments do not in any way dampen the enthusiasm of the people of Queensland for the nomination. I took note of the comments made by the member for Chatsworth, who called for a review of the way in which grants are distributed to various sporting bodies. He called for a select parliamentary committee. I can assure him that I will give consideration to the intent of his comments, one of which was that instead of giving out subsidies there should be payments on a per head basis. That suggestion does not appeal to me. I have to rebut another comment that he made. He claimed that the 25 per cent subsidy for junior coaching is a rort. In fact, it would be tmer to say that it is an initiative that clubs use to get extra money. He also spoke about people within clubs who are qualified coaches actually donating money back to their own clubs. That is something that they do of their own free will. It is not a rort; it is just a way that those people use to support their clubs. He also said that he has qualified people in his basketball club who are not claiming. I am prepared to take that matter up with him and to arrange for him to discuss it with my Director of Sport. The member for Glass House spoke on matters concerning the Rural Youth Organisation and mentioned the fact that he is part of a three-man team that is reviewing the functions of Rural Youth. At present we think that we are able to provide better service for those people. We want them to be self-sufficient so that each club has a charter similar to that of a service club and looks after itself rather than depending so much on help from head office. That is not being done for financial reasons but for their own betterment. I am very much aware of the great value of the Rural Youth movement both in personal development and in leadership training. While speaking about Youth matters, I should say that I take note of the comments made by the member for Ashgrove and remind him that several interdepartmental committees are looking into various things. In fact, matters affecting youth are spread over a number of portfolios and the interdepartmental committees are essential to collate all the information. I just happen to be the spokesman on all matters affecting youth, but many of the issues relating to youth are very capably handled by individual departments. Apart from my mention of the Queensland Recreation Council in the presentation of my Estimates, it did not receive a mention. I want to mention it once again because the people in that council are the quiet achievers. The council consists of a small group of people working in Education House and the regional committees around the State who do so much good. The contributions of something like $60,000 from the regional Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2261 councils keep it going. The money is eamed from the camp system throughout Queensland, which is the largest of its type in Australia. I now retum to educational matters. I was heartened to hear that many of the speakers on both sides of the Chamber were in fact supportive of the initiative that will provide for the devolution of power and responsibility out to schools. The member for Fassifem, Mr Lingard, spoke at length on this. I was also reminded of the support already coming from the (Queensland Teachers Union and the QCPCA. After they realised it was so popular and that the department and I were having such a win, they changed their tack and started to attack the initiative on minute points. The whole idea of devolution is, first of aU, to go through the regions, which can provide personalised service to all sections of Queensland. When an issue arises, within a matter of hours the issue can be discussed eyeball to eyeball. That is a much better way to get a resolution to problems and a much better way to provide the service. Other aspects of the devolution are to be found in school grants, the school development plan and the flexible staffing, which will be given a trial in 1989 in volunteer schools and implemented in 1990. The Opposition spokesman said that the school grants were just a facade. The fact that the Govemment is putting in 50 per cent more to enhance school grants is not a facade. It is real, hard money that is well accepted. Wherever I move throughout the State I find that it has been very well received by the p. and c. associations. Now that in-service training has started, the principals themselves realise that it is no great change at all. These sorts of grants are already in place. The schools are already receiving one cheque. All that the department is doing is reducing the constraints that govem the expenditure and the accountability of that money. There has been some concern about the telephone and electricity accounts. Once it is explained to teachers that the amount of money schools receive will be based on their past history, they quickly realise that it is only part of responsible management at the school so that they should exercise some sort of control over those two accounts that previously went to the regional office. The school development plan, with its emphasis on the involvement of the community in setting goals, determining which resources are needed in the school and also developing schoolgrounds is something that will be put into place gradually next year. Already I have found that the progressive p. and c. associations and co-operative principals have been doing that for years. They welcome the formalisation of that process. Other schools have not had the same amount of flexibility and they will be helped into that process by people from the regional office. The proposal for more flexible staffing has caused some concem, but once the few volunteer schools have it under way and the process is explained to the wider school community, I am sure it will be better understood. I assure educational personnel that the Education Department will remain the employer and that the principal will be the person who presides over the school, but the p. and c. association in a proper way will be invited to contribute to decision-making. I am sure that that will provide for a better utilisation of human and material resources. Much has been made about in-service training and its cost. One member mentioned that there was no line item in the Budget for in-service training itself My reply to that is that in-service training is an integral part of so many initiatives that it does not deserve a single line item. Whatever is a new initiative in a school, in-service training is part of that. My other comment is that the nature of in-service training is changing. With new technology such as videos and the Skylab, the department can give much higher quality in-service training much faster by having it delivered by people with expertise and delivered to all the schools throughout Queensland where staff can sit around at a staff meeting and take it on board. As it was before, the department incurted the cost of people travelling huge mileages and leaving classes unattended so that they could gain the information from in-service training and then retum to their schools to disseminate it. In that dissemination process some of the major points were often lost. 2262 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates)

The devolution changes that will be made when the new legislation for a new principal Act is brought in next year will cover discipline also. For a long time, principals have been concemed about their inability to exclude chUdren without going through a lengthy paraphemalia. Next year, I intend to allow the principals, after contacting the regional office, to be able quickly to have a child excluded for up to one week. That has been well received by the teaching profession and by the public in general. Various members made comments about tertiary education. However, the member for Mansfield summed it up best when he spoke about the achievements that have been made during 1988. It is well known that the Commonwealth Government has been underfunding Queensland for a long period. The member for Woodridge had the audacity to say that the tertiary education ranking system was to blame for the shortage of tertiary places. He is a long way from the tmth. The Federal funding put the pressure on the TE score, because children are ranked in order of merit. Since becoming Minister, first of all I have had the opportunity to examine a report that was compiled during the time of my predecessor asking for amendments to the TE score system. My first initiative was to arrange that, when students receive their TE score this year, they will have a fortnight to change their preferences at the QTAC centre. That was well received. Following that, I made the announcement that we would be able to introduce a written expression test into the ASAT test in October to pick up the standard of written expression, which has been commented upon by people in tertiary institutions and the public at large. However, I began to realise that there was something more important than all those: more tertiary places. In the last 12 months, the Government has put a tremendous amount of time and effort into getting more tertiary places and receiving our fair share of funding from Canberra. I pay tribute to John Dawkins and the people of DEET because they have listened to what we have had to say. The Sherrin committee was made up of the member for Mansfield, who was the chairman, and eminent people in educational circles in Queensland. Those people gave of their time freely to put together documentation that we took to Canberra. The people in Canberra then understood our case and believed our figures, which is something that they had not done previously. I pay tribute also to Dr Botsman and the Board of Advanced Education, who are the people who keep those types of statistics. Dr Botsman has been carrying on negotiations on my behalf with the officers of DEET. I pay tribute also to the people of the tertiary fomm—the vice-chancellors of our universities and the directors of our colleges of advanced education. With their co-operation, understanding and patience, we have been able to work our way through these initiatives. On many occasions we thought that we were not actually achieving much at all. However, above all else, we were using time. As honourable members would have read in the Courier-Mail this morning, Queensland has an expectation that has been somehow signalled by Canberra already. I will not disclose what that expectation is, but we have high expectations that the efforts that we have put in over the last 12 months will be for the good of the young people in Queensland. Other people want to take the credit. I suppose that is politics. However, when people know where the action is and where things are happening, they will soon realise that it has been a major effort on the part of the Government to make it all happen. Govemment members are in the place to make it all happen, in conjunction with Mr Dawkins and his officers. Comment was made about foreign languages. I agree whole-heartedly that it is important to include foreign languages not only in secondary schools but also in primary schools. Some people seem to be of the opinion that no foreign languages are being taught in primary schools. That is not the case. Under the program of language other than English, certain primary schools in Queensland are already teaching Italian, Chinese, Spanish, German and Japanese. In years to come, that will expand. In fact, earlier this week in the newspaper, Dr Robertson stated that in a very short time almost all schools in Queensland will be teaching some foreign language. We are starting to realise that, if Supply (Estimates) 8 November 1988 2263 we are to lift our game as a trading nation, we have to improve not only technology but also communication skills. When I speak to people who come from Europe, they prize very highly the people in the work-force who are multilingual, because they are the ones who clinch the deals. Comments about incentive transfers were made by a number of speakers. I was heartened to hear the member for Mount Isa, who knows a fair bit about that, and also Mr Lingard, who has personal experience from being in remote parts of the State at different times. The comments I have received from teachers and my own experience as a teacher outside Brisbane—and backed up by Mr Beard—confirm that money is not the highest priority. The Govemment has done a great deal to look after its teachers. The member for Mount Isa mentioned the possibility of providing air fares. The Govemment already provides annual air fares for teachers to travel to a major city or to the capital city. Special air fares are also provided for medical and dental treatment. Locality aUowances are provided, as well as special support in schools for people in remote areas. I generally find that teachers accept that service in remote areas is part and parcel of the profession. They do not mind doing their short stint in remote areas, as long as all teachers take their tum. I am concerned that some people in the profession are not prepared to take their tum. Having been to remote areas for a couple of years in a different environment, the teachers generally retum admitting that they are better teachers and better people for the experience. Mention was made of centres of excellence. I take on board Mr Henderson's comments. He has a great knowledge of secondary schooling. He would know that we already have some schools of excellence. The school of excellence at the Kelvin Grove State High School works in conjunction with the Queensland Ballet Company and specialises also in tennis and golf I understand Mr Henderson's idea of clustering, under which, by economies of scale, we can offer subjects at a central school to which students can travel by bus to obtain the benefit of the expertise of a teacher who is attached to that school. That makes good sense to me. Another issue is raised by many of our intemationally ranked swimmers who are young people at school. They complain—rightfully so—that they have to make a choice: either they can continue their schooling and forget about swimming or they can continue with swimming and lose the chance of an academic career. At present, a committee chaired by Dr Robertson is investigating a number of possibilities, including a course which makes their schooling more flexible in Years 11 and 12. Instead of those students studying the same number of subjects as most other students, they might study a reduced number of subjects and complete the course in three years rather than in two years. We would break the schooling into units so that those students would be able to do a few units and then break off while they go into a heavy program of intemational competition or the training associated with it. Mention was also made of not much being done for the gifted and talented. I remind honourable members of an initiative introduced only a couple of months ago whereby next year every region in Queensland will have a person specially assigned as a consultant for setting up programs for gifted and talented people. Having set up that program, the Govemment will be very keen to assess its worth. I will consider extending that program, should I see merit in doing so. I might mention that a parents' association for the gifted and talented is very active in Queensland. Twice this year I have attended meetings of that association and leamed quite a lot about some of the problems caused by the behaviour of gifted and talented young people. They are not always the great achievers that one might think they would be. Their attainments in school are in fact often marred by the fiiistrations that they experience because they are not getting an outlet for their great talents. I want to conclude by referring to the comments made by the member for Ipswich. He provided great theatre tonight. He said that what I have done in relation to education so far is all front and no substance. He said that I had generated all sorts of false 2264 8 November 1988 Supply (Estimates) expectations. I suggest that he review what I have done and see whether they are false expectations or in fact realities. Since I became the Minister the department has in fact achieved an 11.5 per cent increase in funding. Queensland looks like getting an extra 3 000 Commonwealth-funded tertiary places. It also looks like getting 1 000 State-funded tertiary places. The member for Ipswich spoke about the number of teacher graduates in 1987. Only 50 of the graduates from the teachers colleges in 1987 remain unemployed. He talked about the number of graduates coming out of college this year. It is quite an achievement that of the 2 300 graduates coming out of college this year, it is expected that 1 800 will be looking to the Govemment for employment and that nearly all of them will in fact be employed by the end of June next year. Mention was made of a 50 per cent increase in school grants. All those things are in fact realities and not false expectations. Finally, I conclude by quoting Con Sciacca, the ALP member for Bowman, who sums up the position very nicely as follows— "I never cease to be amazed at the quaUty and standard of our educational institutions right here in Redlands.

The standard of education in all our schools including our State secondary and primary schools is undoubtedly of the highest order." I rest my case. At 10.48 p.m.. Votes passed under Standing Order No. 307 and Sessional Order By agreement, under the provisions of Standing Order No. 307 and the Sessional Order, the questions for the following Votes were put by the Temporary Chairman and agreed to—

$ Education, Youth and Sport— Department of Education—Salaries, Administration Expenses, etc. (Consolidated Revenue) 1,157,644,000 Balance of Vote (ConsoUdated Revenue, Tmst and Special Funds) 742,574,000 Executive and Legislative, Balance of Votes 18,388,000 The Premier and Treasurer and Minister for the Arts .... 81,845,000 Deputy Premier, Minister for PubUc Works, Main Roads and Expo and Minister for Police 453,535,000 Employment, Training and Industrial Affairs 211,182,000 Environment, Conservation and Tourism 70,053,000 Finance and Minister Assisting the Premier and Treasurer .. 787,015,000 Health 1,255,459,000 Industry, SmaU Business, Communications and Technology 89,157,000 Justice and Attomey-General 84,806,000 Local Govemment and Racing 9,390,000 Mines and Energy 24,728,000 Primary Industries 122,583,000 Tmst and Special Funds Estimates, Balance of Estimates . . 10,595,034,000 Loan Fund Estimates, Balance of Estimates 316,236,000 Railway Proposal 8 November 1988 2265

Statement of Unforeseen Expenditure to be Appropriated (Consolidated Revenue) 1987-88 380,912,000 Statement of Unforeseen Expenditure to be Appropriated (Tmst and Special Funds) 1987-88 535,065,000 Statement of Unforeseen Expenditure to be Appropriated (Loan Fund) 1987-88 26,994,000 Vote on Account, 1989-90 3,370,000,000 Resolutions reported, and ordered to be received on 9 November.

RAILWAY PROPOSAL Ebenezer/Jeebropilly Mines Spur Line Hon. I. J. GIBBS (Albert—Minister for Transport) (11 p.m.): I move— "That Mr Speaker do now leave the chair and the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider the following resolution— 'That the House approves of the plan, section and book of reference for the proposed rail spur to Ebenezer and Jeebropilly mines.' " Motion agreed to.

Committee Hon. I. J. GIBBS (Albert—Minister for Transport) (11.01 p.m.): I move— "That the House approves of the plan, section and book of reference for the proposed rail spur to Ebenezer and Jeebropilly mines." Honourable members would be aware of the importance of Queensland coal mines and associated railways to the Queensland economy. Using technology second to none, an efficient railway system has been developed throughout Queensland to handle the massive task of hauling coal from the mines to the export ports, power stations, and private local users. In 1987-88, a total of over 62 million tonnes of coal were railed throughout Queensland, the vast bulk of this being from the Bowen Basin in central Queensland. Electrification of the Gladstone-Blackwater and Goonyella systems, as well as the North Coast Line from Caboolture to Gladstone, is currently well advanced in a $ 1,090m project. This is just one example of the steps being taken by this Government to improve the efficiency and capacity of these rail systems. The Goonyella railway system, in particular, has seen massive expansion in recent times, with new coal mines and associated infrastmcture developed at Riverside, Blair Athol, German Creek and Oaky Creek. Further developments are now proposed in the West Moreton coal reserves near Ipswich, with the expansion of existing coal-mining operations at both the Ebenezer and Jeebropilly coal mines, by the respective owners— Allied Queensland Coalfields and New Hope Corporation Limited. The existing mines are located approximately seven kilometres south-west of the township of Rosewood. Open-cut mining operations of the deposits are proposed by the respective owners with annual throughput geared to reflect market realities. An initial capacity of 2.2 million tonnes per annum is envisaged. However, both companies are hoping to expand their operations should markets allow. The coal will be railed from the mine site via a new railway spur line connection to the Ipswich-Helidon rail line, thence via the existing railway to the Port of Brisbane Authority's facilities at Fisherman Islands. Upgrading of the existing railway, together with supporting infrastmcture, may be necessary to handle the additional tonnages that are to be railed from the new mine. The extent of the necessary upgrading work has yet to be finalised. 2266 8 November 1988 Railway Proposal

The purpose of this proposal is to obtain the approval of the Committee for the route of the spur railway to connect the Ebenezer and Jeebropilly mine sites with the existing Ipswich-Helidon rail line. The proposed spur line, including the balloon loop at the mine coal load-out point, is 8.4 kilometres long, and it joins the existing Ipswich- Helidon rail line approximately mid way between Thagoona and Rosewood. The route of the proposed spur line will head in a south-easterly direction crossing the Ipswich- Rosewood road and the Bremer River. The line continues in the very same direction, crossing Ebenezer Road before curving to parallel Coopers Road, finishing at the coal- loading facUity some 2.5 kilometres from the Ebenezer Road crossing. The proposed line traverses generally flat to undulating grazing country. Apart from land required from the mining company to site the baUoon loop, coal load-out facilities and portions of the railway, a total resumption area of 16 hectares from private land is required. Constmction will entail the bridging of the Bremer River, other minor drainage stmctures and substantial earthworks to achieve the necessary gradings. A road-over-rail bridge will be constmcted at the crossing of the railway with the Ipswich to Rosewood road. Rationalisation of a number of other roads that are crossed is also proposed. During development of the initial design concepts, considerable emphasis has been placed on liaising with the Moreton Shire Council—in whose shire the new spur will be constmcted—the Main Roads Department, local residents and local interest groups. As a result of this liaison, the designs have been developed to minimise adverse impact of the constmction on the local community. The spur line will not be electrified at the proposed time of commissioning of the new spur line. The total estimated cost of the proposed rail spur, including resumptions, is $9.2m. The advantages to the West Moreton region and to Queensland by way of both short and long-term employment that wiU be generated by the constmction and operation of this significant coal-mine project, the rail-freight revenues and mining royalties that will be enjoyed and the other incidental benefits that will accme are obvious. Accordingly, I have no hesitation in recommending the constmction of this rail spur line between the existing Ipswich-Helidon rail line and the existing mines at Ebenezer and Jeebropilly. I commend the proposal to the Committee. Mr HAMILL (Ipswich) (11.05 p.m.): For some time the coal-mining industry in Ipswich has been in a state of flux. It is interesting to note that it is estimated that 2.2 million tonnes of coal will be transported on the spur line between Ebenezer and Jeebropilly to Parkside. The Moreton Shire Council expects tonnages of up to 4 million tonnes in the near future, which will place an increased burden on the railway line in that region. When this railway proposal was promoted, concern was expressed about flooding in the Moreton Shire. I am pleased that the final proposal that is before the Committee provides for the railway line to be built above flood levels so that the danger of flooding on the plains and swampland around the Bremer River will be mitigated. It is interesting to note that Ebenezer coal-field is the only new coal operation that has been conducted in the region during the past six years. However, as honourable members would be aware. Allied Queensland Coalfields Ltd is experiencing a very tumultuous period. Mr Newton: That's right. Mr HAMILL: The honourable member for Glass House knows about that. I would not mind interrogating him on his great knowledge of that area. Now that he is flinching from the subject, I will let him off the hook. I do not wish to embarrass the honourable member in this Chamber. In May 1988, Allied Queensland Coalfields sold 49 per cent of its holdings to Ebenezer. On 10 October 1988 the company sold—or hoped to sell—the other 51 per cent to Idemitsu Kosan Co. Ltd of Japan for $51.3m. That deal has incurred the ire of many mine-workers in the area who are concerned that Australia's natural resources are Railway Proposal 8 November 1988 2267 being sold to overseas interests. Although no public statement has been made on the outcome of the transaction, great concem has been expressed that Australia's great natural energy resources could find their way into foreign hands. My only concem with the proposal for the rail deviation is the question of access. The closure of the Ebenezer Road can present great problems for land-holders in that area. My concem is echoed by the Moreton Shire Council. It is greatly concemed about this proposition. The council is concemed about the potential for flooding in the Bremer River valley. In that area are two land-holdings which will be deleteriously affected by the establishment of the rail spur. I invite the Minister to comment upon those two land-holdings and to say whether the Govemment and/or the mining company is prepared to address potential problems which may result from the tmncation of access to those areas. The shire council is certainly concerned that the mining companies will acquire all the properties in that area. Should the mining company not acquire all those properties, the great concem is that a level crossing ought to be constmcted where the rail spur crosses Ebenezer Road. The property-owners in that area—the Condrens and the Barrams—hold properties whose access could be affected should the mining company undermine all those areas or, indeed, undertake open-cut operations across all those areas that connect them to the main roads out to the Amberley-Ipswich access road. Should the mining company not acquire all those territories, the Barrams particularly could be adversely affected, because their property fronts the Ebenezer Road and it would be a long way round for them to traverse the area, coming across the proposed new crossing just near Mervada Park, which is on the plan presented by the Railway Department. If those considerations can be adequately addressed, certainly the Opposition has no objection to the proposal, because for the Ipswich and West Moreton area, and as a member in that area, can I say that it is one of the welcome developments for the mining industry. New tonnages will be able to be exported through Parkside to the benefit of employment and the mining industry in the Ipswich and West Moreton districts. Mr Newton: Jobs for the boys. Mr HAMILL: Who said, "Jobs for the boys."? The empty-headed member for Glass House said, "Jobs for the boys." I am sure that the Minister for Transport welcomes the contribution of the member for Glass House because the Minister would understand that the member for Glass House has no comprehension of the importance of the coal industry to the State of Queensland. The West Moreton area has suffered greatly from the Queensland Government's policies of high rati freights and lack of support for underground mining operations in the West Moreton field. A significant loss of employ­ ment has occurred in the West Moreton field. The Queensland Government undermined the viability of that field by its decision not to honour the contracts of supply of coal to the Swanbank Power Station. Now we hear from the member for Glass House a continuation of the lack of support for the West Moreton coal-fields and employment thereon. I am only happy that, despite the obstacles placed in the way of employment in the West Moreton coal-fields, this project has gone ahead and that the Ebenezer and Jeebropilly mines will play an important role in the revitalisation of what are very significant coal-fields close to Brisbane. Therefore, because of the very high quality of coal that can be exported on spot rates from the West Moreton field, that field will continue to play an important role in the coal industry of Queensland. As I said before, the Minister must answer the questions about access for property- holders in the area, and if he can satisfy me and the Moreton Shire Council, which has played a significant role in ensuring that property-holders' interests in the area are represented to the Queensland Govemment, then the Opposition wUl have no objection 2268 8 November 1988 Railway Proposal whatsoever to the rail spur and the benefits that it will convey to the mining industry in the West Moreton area.

Mr GATELY (Curmmbin) (11.15 p.m.): I draw to the attention of the Committee the fact that the member for Ipswich, Mr HamiU, has made a speech of a somewhat lower standard than his usual fluent approach and delivery. However, his cowardly attack on overseas investment in Australia's mining industry is an attempt to hide behind the skirts of unionists who soundly rejected his candidature for Oxley. It will do the honourable member no good. Mr HAMILL: I rise to a point of order. The honourable member for Curmmbin is misleading the Parliament. At no time did I attack foreign investment in Queensland. I said that I was concemed for property-owners of the Moreton Shire. If the honourable member for Curmmbin cannot understand that, I suggest that he retire from this debate immediately. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Booth): Order! There is no point of order. Mr GATELY: If the words I used are not ones that the honourable member is prepared to accept, I withdraw them. The point I wish to make is that his comment about the possible purchase of part of a rail line by overseas financial interests is less than one would expect from a member of this Parliament. He should understand clearly that Australia needs overseas investment now, as it has in the past, to develop many of its natural resources in order to cam an export income sufficient to make this country's balance of payments look healthier than it is under mismanagement by the Federal Labor Govemment. I commend the Minister for Transport for bringing forward this resolution for approval of the proposed rail spur to Ebenezer and Jeebropilly mines. This proposal is yet another example of the Minister and the department working with private industry to achieve a positive benefit for the people of this State. It is a credit to the Minister and to his departmental officers that so much obvious benefit has accmed to this State as a result of the recent massive expansion of the rail system. Honourable members will be pleased to note that since Mr I. J. Gibbs was appointed Minister for Transport, approvals for other expanded mining operations at Cook colliery near Blackwater of 1 million tonnes per annum, and, most recently, at Blair Athol mine near Clermont of 3 million tonnes per annum, have been given. A resultant investment of in excess of $85m in Queensland's economy foreshadows substantial revenue increases, as well as creating employment opportunities for Queensland. The proposed constmction of the new branch line to the Ebenezer and Jeebropilly mines and the expansion of the existing coal mines near Rosewood will contribute further to the healthy state of Queensland's economy. Confidence in this State's devel­ opment and in its economy is further assured by investment in these mines and in their supporting infrastmcture. More specifically, this project will greatly benefit the people of Ipswich and the Moreton Shire who have been adversely affected by the recent closure of other mines. The expansion of the mines I have referred to and the associated rail connections will provide employment during the constmction phase as well as long-term employment in the mining and rail transport operations. Mining royalties, port charges and pay-roll taxes all contribute to the financial resources that are available to the Govemment for use in improving the general services offered to the community by the Government. These funds are provided as a result of certain changes. The contributions that are made by mining companies assist in improving the living standards of residents in Queensland. The National Party Government's decision to approve the expansion of mining operations in Central Queensland in Cook colliery and at Blair Athol is pleasing because these major coal-carrying rail lines will continue to reap benefits for Queensland. It is obvious that both Allied Queensland Coalfields and New Hope Corporation have also recognised Railway Proposal 8 November 1988 2269 the value of an efficient raU system for the economical haulage of coal from the mines to the port. Constmction of the new spur line will fiirther enhance the railway network operating in this State. Queensland's rail system operated by Queensland Railways is regarded as one of the best and most efficient railway systems in the world today. Further improve­ ments can serve only to increase the attractiveness of rail transportation in this State. The expertise of Queensland Railways technology is now being sought by overseas countries—an achievement of which every Queenslander should be proud. Mr Hamill: When did you last travel by train? Mr GATELY: On Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Mr Hamill: Where to? Kyogle? Mr GATELY: The honourable member wants to know when I last travelled by rail. For his edification, in his limited capacity as a junior Rhodes Scholar, I point out that last Wednesday I had the opportunity to inspect the rail line from Karratha to Mount Tom Price. I inspected some rather heavy rolling-stock equipment that the honourable member would not even dare to look at! Mr HAMILL: I rise to a point of order. I point out to the honourable member that Karratha is a long way from Rosewood. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN Order! I caU the honourable member for Curmmbin. Mr GATELY: Perhaps the honourable member now understands that I undertake research into the topics I speak about. Queensland's rail transportation system is an integral and efficient component of the Queensland coal industry. It is clear that overseas markets recognise the competiveness of this State's coal export industry. The development of existing mines near Rosewood is a clear sign of the confidence that overseas investors have in Queensland's leading position as a reliable and cost-effective supplier of coal. This new rail spur line will contribute a vital share to the generation of revenue from coal exports. The value of that income to this State's economy and the fiirther expansion of the rail network cannot be overestimated. The Queensland Govemment would be remiss if it did not approve and encourage development of this State's coal resource and associated railway infrastmcture. That type of development is clearly in the best interests of the people of Queensland. Once again Queensland is leading the way in economic development which will benefit not only this State but also the rest of Australia. The additional coal exports from these mines will contribute significantly to the improvement of this country's balance of payments—something which the Labor Party in Canberra is not capable of achieving. In these times of uncertainty and widespead unemployment this is a major benefit to Queensland. I am pleased to support the resolution because it will create direct and indirect employment opportunities for men and women in this State. This expansion will directly generate employment in the constmction industry. The constmction of the railway formation, bridges and drainage stmctures, and the constmction of the mine stmctures and facilities will provide a welcome boost to the constmction industry. The flow-on effects of the mine and railway development are substantial and lasting. Apart from the continuing employment that is associated with the maintenance of railway facilities and equipment by railway employees, new employment opportunities will arise as a result of the expanded requirements of the railway system. The Minister for Transport and the Govemment are to be praised for bringing this resolution before this Chamber. It will reap great benefits for Queensland and I am sure that all Queenslanders will recognise the Minister's commitment to achieve improvements 2270 8 November 1988 Railway Proposal to our life-style and economy through the expansion of Queensland's efficient railway system. Mr INNES (Sherwood—Leader of the Liberal Party) (11.23 p.m.): It is a pleasure to join in this debate, and the Liberal Party totally supports this proposal. Mr Casey: It may be for you, but not for us. Mr INNES: If the honourable member for Mackay took his tremulous voice out to another place, he could entertain honourable members outside rather than inside this Chamber. Mr Hamill: I am pleased to see the Liberal Party supporting Mr Casey. Mr INNES: No, the Liberal Party is supporting the building of the railway spur line to the Ebenezer and Jeebropilly mines. I know that the honourable member for Ipswich has had problems with the coal mining industry, but the Liberal Party has no such problems in supporting the modem development of the West Moreton coal-fields. Everyone understands that underground mining, particularly in the West Moreton field, has gone through and is still experiencing difficult times. The area shares the same problems as those faced by underground mines in New South Wales. They are small mines in significantly faulted country which do not lend themselves to the more cost- effective techniques of underground mining that are available today, such as long-wall mining techniques. It is good to see that the West Moreton field can find potentially new sources of economically and efficiently winnable coal in the open-cut mines to the west of Amberley. It would come as a great surprise to the majority of people in south­ east Queensland and Ipswich that west of and close to Amberley two major open-cut mines will be opened up and that both are capable of producing 2 million tonnes per year of high-grade coal. The honourable member for Curmmbin referred to the great contribution made by the coal-mining industry to the economy of this State. The Liberal Party fully appreciates that and this is one of the reasons why the honourable member for Mount Isa—the present Liberal spokesman on Mines and Energy—and I visited a number of coal mines in this State and went on a tour with the West Moreton coal-miners last year to see the facilities, including the two mines in question which are to be served by this spur line. One of the matters that have to be addressed is the issue detailed by the honourable member for Curmmbin of the contribution made by coal mines to the economy of Queensland. The question must be asked: is the golden goose being killed? Certainly there are massive contributions made by way of royalties, even more massive contri­ butions made by way of the tax profit for the use of the railways and, in addition, the profit made at the port handling level. There are three levels of profit-taking by the Govemment from the coal-mining industry and there are massive stmctural changes taking place. I am not only talking about the underground West Moreton coal-fields converting to open-cut operations in these two mines, but also—when one looks at the total Queensland industry—I am referring to the sort of stmctural changes that have led Queensland-based coal-mining companies, which have been long established in this State, to the position where they are no longer putting their money into Queensland or into the possibility of new mines. In fact these companies are looking at and actively attempting to sell their interests in mines in this State. At the same time they are actively exploring and opening up new coal mines in places such as Indonesia. That is the reality. The labour-force has had to address the issue of work practices. Problems have been created by the joint industrial relations between Queensland and New South Wales. There is a greater work-force of miners in New South Wales owing to the higher incidence of underground mines which are more labour intensive. That has distorted or delayed the capacity to resolve some of the work-practice issues involved in the mining industry. The reason why work practices had to be addressed was imposed on the industry from outside, that is, the very difficult and competitive times through which the coal industry Railway Proposal 8 November 1988 2271 has passed in recent years because of intemational prices of coal. Intemational prices cannot be changed, because they are dictated by a market-place which is increasingly competitive because of the increased activity of new sources of coal or old sources of coal re-entering the export market. This has created significant competition and has set an intemational price which cannot be adjusted by any single producer—or even a major producer such as Australia—trying to dictate terms. The fact that a country such as Japan was paying more for its coal in the interests of decentraUsing or spreading its source of risk set a bench-mark of $2, $3, $4 or $5 above the price of the long-term or medium-term contracts in Australia, and Australia has been able to move up to that new bench-mark. The State has not been able to go above it because there is now a genuine intemational price for coal, depending on its use, that is, whether it be steaming coal or coal to be used in steel production. Mr Hamill: That is a simplistic view. Mr INNES: It is not a simplistic view at all. The reason why the member for Ipswich got the chop from having anything to do with mines is that he knows nothing about coal-mining. We are aU aware that some fiimaces—some of them are in steel- manufacturing plants—because of the time at which they were constmcted, are suited to particular grades of coal. The coal-field of Allied Queensland Coalfields at Ebenezer is particularly suited to some steel-mills in Japan. Mr Hamill: The very point is that there are so many grades of coal. Mr INNES: I am perfectly aware that there are grades of coal. There are two dominant types of coal. That is also self-evident. There is a price difference of about $US16 between the two dominant types of coal. But between those types there are different grades of coal and coal-mining companies have estabUshed a variety of techniques of blending and screening to arrive at a quality control that makes the coal suitable for particular plants, fumaces or boiler systems in particular parts of the world. I retum to the point that the price is extemaUy set. The factors of adjustment within Australia are threefold. One is work practices. Part of the factor of work practices involved addressing the issue of the greater use of the capital involved in modem coal­ mining investment. If a multimillion dollar dragline or a multimillion dollar long-haul machine can be used for more days of the week, that has a major beneficial effect on a major cost component of coal production. So there is the cost of labour, which involves the issue of work practices, and there is the cost of capital which also, to some extent, involves the issue of work practices. Then there is the issue of Govemment charges. That is the one I address tonight. I commend the more enlightened parts of the labour movement, particularly those based in Queensland, because their circumstances are different from those of their counterparts in New South Wales, for embracing the need to address work practices and being prepared to explore, with the direction of the coal tribunal, the possibility of attacking those two issues: the use of capital and repressive or non-competitive work practices. The third factor is Govemment charges. Although a rearguard action will be fought in New South Wales on the implementation of the recommendations of the coal tribunal on work practices, the leaders of the Queensland coal-mining industry were prepared to entertain them. Now that we are looking forward to a point where those two major issues have been addressed, we are still left with the factor that is causing Queensland- based and Australian-based coal-mining companies of long standing to desert—perhaps I could say "vacate"—Queensland or Australia or sell their interests in Queensland and Australia and go to other parts of the world, some of which are very close to us. Allied Queensland Coalfields is one of those companies. The company with which the member for Mount Isa was associated for many years. Mount Isa Mines, has had to address, and is addressing, a very serious problem in relation to its coal-mining ventures. Recently I went to a central (Queensland coal mine that operates both open-cut and underground mining. I was interested to be reminded that a massive investment of almost $1 billion committed in 1978 is unUkely to produce 2272 8 November 1988 Railway Proposal any profit untU 1993. That is a massive loss of use of funds in that period of time which, in a sense, is such a poor record that it is causing that company and other companies to look away from Australia as a place in which to do more coal business. The factor that has not been addressed to any significant extent is the matter of Govemment charges. In the case of the Ebenezer coal spur and the Moreton coal mine, the problem is in a microcosm. The service will be provided over an established railway system. That is unlike the rail system of central Queensland that the operators of coal mines paid to have built. They paid for the rolling-stock and for the accommodation of the railway workers and pay every year for the mnning costs. They pay for the whole shooting match—the whole box and dice—yet on top of that they pay a super-added tax of a very significant order. The average in central Queensland would be $12 to $13 a tonne for a service that costs $5 a tonne—that is after the companies have paid for all the rolling-stock and the cost of building the right of way—that is, after paying for the whole box and dice. It is that figure of $6 to $7 a tonne—in the case of some lines it is as high as $10 or $ 11 a tonne—that is an enormous part of the end cost component that has to be attacked. The stage is being reached when very few coal mines will be built in Queensland. Coal mine and coal town development has been one of the most important components of the economic success and growth of Queensland in the last decade and a half Some of the State's biggest, most prestigious and most long-term mining companies will never, ever again put money into a coal mine because of the lack of retum and because of the loss that they have sustained on the venture in recent times. In practical terms the only area which can be attacked to benefit our competitive edge is Govemment charges. At the West Moreton coal mine, we have a situation of a monopoly being imposed by the Government. It would be cheaper for them to tmck coal from the coal mines to the port of Brisbane. However, that is not allowed, and that is reasonable for social purposes. But is it right to prohibit one form of transport and therefore inferentially to insist on another form of transport and then extort a tax which makes the venture virtually non-profitable? Mr Simpson interjected. Mr INNES: I hear the member for Cooroora burbling away in the comer. He has his own railway problems at the moment. Mr Simpson: I was just saying the wheat-farmers Mr INNES: No. The coal-miners subsidise the wheat-farmers. If the honourable member wants to talk about primary industry, I do not mind; however, the coal-miners absolutely subsidise the whole shooting-match in this State. The miners provide a subsidy of $450m a year towards the whole shooting-match, including all the wheat-farmers. I have nothing against wheat-farmers. Mr Simpson: They can stiU cart it by road cheaper than by rail. Mr INNES: Absolutely. But the coal-miners are not allowed to do it; the wheat- farmers sometimes are. Mr Simpson: The coal-miners sometimes can, too. Mr INNES: But not from the West Moreton field. Mr Simpson: No. Mr INNES: Right. The reality is a service which is already paid for. There is no question of building the right of way. It was paid for by the people who were the pioneers of the development of this State. The first railways in this State emanated from Ipswich. Therefore the railway was paid for by tax-payers who were predominantly in that area. The community paid for it. It was a community that traditionally was based upon mining, which was a large component of its economic activity. Now the mining element Railway Proposal 8 November 1988 2273 is stmggling to survive in a competitive world and the mining companies must pay an additional tax to use the railway line built by their forebears. That service is worth about $2 or $2.50 a tonne. On the latest figures, it is approximately 6c above $5—just over $5—for the transportation of a tonne of coal from the existing coal mines on the West Moreton fields to the port of Brisbane. That is a $2.50 impediment to competitive edge. No coal mine in the West Moreton field can be said to be tmly competitive in the modem environment. Allied Queensland Coalfields Ltd is selling out because it has major financial problems and it is not making a profit out of its coal-mining operations. At the same time, that company is exploring for coal in Indonesia. There is a Japanese market and there is a Japanese user who has an operation for which the ebony of the coal is particuly suited. Because of its domestic situation, that company is prepared to make a long-term commitment. But a coal-mining company which was bom in this State and which is based in this State is not prepared to continue to make a loss and not to give a retum to its share-holders. The only factor of adjustment left is Government charges. The charges by the Queensland Govemment are forcing Queensland coal-mining companies out of Queensland to look to investment in places such as Indonesia, which pay all the infrastmcture costs and entice Australian coal-mining companies to operate in their area with no impediment or loading for transportation—in fact, with assistance to develop things such as profits and railways. Mr Hamill: Are you saying that the other places in Queensland should close up shop? Mr INNES: I do not want anyone to close up shop. Mr Hamill: You are saying they can't compete. Mr INNES: I am saying that the Govemment should provide assistance and bring together the genuine cost of transporting the coal with what is charged. We accept a profit factor. The coal-mining companies in the coal industry do not object to paying 10 per cent of the tme cost of the transportation of coal. However, it objects to paying 100 per cent or 100 per cent plus when the dollar factor is so significant. For example, 10c a tonne will make or break the profit factor on the coal. Mr Hamill: Are you saying that West Moreton is totally uneconomic? Mr INNES: I am saying that the reason why Allied Queensland Coalfields Ltd is getting out is that it has been making too many losses. One small company has a domestic situtation in the area, but I am saying that the last thing to go will be the Government charges. Yet the presence of Govemment charges and the rate of Govem­ ment charges is forcing Queensland companies—Australian coal-mining companies—to stop operations in this country and to sell out to foreign interests at a time when they are still prepared to go looking for coal and are being enticed to look for coal in competitive countries, even those close to Australia. The Queensland Govemment cannot have it all ways. We had the good times with the coal industry; we have to face the bad times with it. If we face the bad times with it, we could have expansion of coal-mining in this State and in this country. The benefits of increased tonnage, albeit less profit per tonne, would balance out the situation in the long term. Time expired. Mr ARDILL (SaUsbury) (11.44 p.m.): I was disappointed to hear the member for Sherwood attacking the member for Ipswich about his knowledge of the coal industry. Nobody who has lived in Ipswich for any length of time could help but have a sound grounding in the coal industry. The Labor spokesperson on the motion is weU acquainted, as all honourable members know, with all the ramifications of the coal-mining industry. Mr Casey: He has got it under his fingemails tonight. 2274 8 November 1988 Railway Proposal

Mr ARDILL: Mr Casey is right. The proposed railway spur will, of course, connect the main line near Thagoona to the mine at Ebenezer. This is not the first time that these two points have been connected. Back in the 1920s there was a well-celebrated murder mystery at Ebenezer. The railway gate-keeper at Thagoona was the person who was able to give the evidence that eventually put the murderer away. He had opened the gates to allow that person to pass through. The point is that honourable members should be on the track of the rail spur and should not be talking about the coal-mining industry at all. I have digressed also. This railway spur is supported by the Opposition, which however is concemed about the effects on access for the local people, as was mentioned by the member for Ipswich. Mr Hamill interjected. Mr ARDILL: The National Party should be concemed about dairy-farmers, as the Opposition is. You, Mr Temporary Chairman, are of course always concemed about dairy-farmers. The railway spur will cut a couple of roads. I hope that the Moreton Shire Council is able to recoup from the mining companies the wherewithal to reinstate those roads in sound condition and, hopefully, in better condition than they are in at present. I am well acquainted with the area, so I know the problems that could arise. The main concem that I voice is that large tonnages of coal will be hauled on the line. I hope that Mr Hamill interjected. Mr ARDILL: I believe that about six trains a day will be needed to rail the coal from this line. I hope that it will not lead to a resurtection of the crazy scheme that was, hopefully, put to rest a couple of years ago of bringing coal through the southem suburbs of Brisbane. I would like the Minister's reassurance that the existing railtrack from Ipswich through Corinda and Dutton Park to the port will be quite capable of looking after the proposed tonnage and any further tonnage that may come out of the Ebenezer area. That is the principal reason why I am speaking on this railway proposal tonight. It is very important to ensure that these clanking monsters are not channelled through the residential areas of Brisbane. There was no suggestion of that type of thing occurring until two or three years ago, when the former Premier wanted to tap the wealth of northem New South Wales and bring coal trains, wheat trains and what-have- you through the middle of residential areas. People who live along the existing line, of course, are used to having such trains pass through their area. At present, two or three trains a day come through from the Bundamba mines. I seek a reassurance from the Minister that all coal trains wiU continue to use the existing route. It was interesting to hear the member for Curmmbin mention the fact that he was not able to find a train worthy of his interest in Queensland and that he had to go interstate to see what he considered to be a major transport operation Mr GATELY: I rise to a point of order. I did not make such a statement at all. I find those words offensive. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Booth): Order! I call the member for Salisbury. Mr ARDILL: That is my principal concem. I would like to hear from the Minister that the existing tracks will be capable of handling any fiiture output from these mines in the Ebenezer area. Mr BEANLAND (Toowong) (11.49 p.m.): The Liberal Party supports the constmc­ tion of this spur line in the development of the State's coal resources. However, the proposal raises a number of serious questions. Railway Proposal 8 November 1988 2275

One cannot help but notice that the cost of some $9,160,000 is to be financed by the development companies themselves—that is, the coal companies—at no cost to the State. That is an important point to bear in mind, since the coal companies are in fact paying thrice for transport. First of all they are paying the actual development cost— the capital cost of the constmction of the line itself Then they are paying for the freight on this section of the Une. On top of that, they are paying the superfreight tax. I make those points because they should be kept in mind when consideration is given to this coal development and, of course, to the constmction of the railway spur line. The report indicates that a number of significant advantages will accme to the State at no cost to the State, in the form of increased employment opportunities, the financial retum and development generally. If one examines the history of coal companies, it is fair to say that, although there are some concems about work practices, nevertheless they are being tackled. There has never been a point in the history of the coal industry when there has been greater competition from a number of overseas countries, particularly South America, southem Africa and parts of Asia. Therefore it is particularly important for Australia and Queensland to have a competitive advantage over those countries. It is very difficult for that to be so when our coal companies face Govemment charges of such significance. The concem being expressed by coal companies about those significant Govemment charges is not something that has crept up on the Govemment. Supertax on rail freight in this State has been of concem to coal companies for some time now. It is all very well while the coal companies are receiving large sums of money and are able to sell their coal at a good profit. However, when the coal companies fail to make sufficient profits from the sale of coal, their resources are severely strained. Perhaps the end of negotiations has now been reached, but when the proposal was first introduced I understand that the coal freight was being negotiated. It is fair to say that the effect of hidden taxes on Queensland coal-miners is clearly spelt out by the Department of Mines in its State Economic Development Strategy submission to the State Govemment in its recent review of the State's economy. The Mines Department submission on the State Economic Development Strategy certainly expresses a great deal of concem about State Govemment charges. It states— "Of the . . . constraining influences, industry has voiced its concem with regard to the level of State Govemment charges through rail and port charges, royalties and taxes. The level of State Govemment revenue collection (estimated $670 million net contribution by the mining industry in 1986/87) has come under increasing criticism from many quarters within the industry in recent years. A fiirther cost imposed on many mine developments is the requirement to pay for infrastmcture works beyond those directly associated with the mining project or dedicated transport and handling systems." The report goes on to highlight that State revenue of approximately $450m comes from rail and port profits. If one looks fiirther, one wiU see that $400m is profit to the State raUway system. That is a significant amount for the coal companies to pay as an additional supertax or superfreight to the Railway Department. This year, flowing from that. Allied Queensland Coalfields sold 49 per cent of the coal-field to the Japanese group Idemitsu. The company then sold its remaining portion of the Ebenezer coal mine to the same group for $ 15.3m. That group now totally owns this coal-field. Opposition members interjected. Mr BEANLAND: I notice the interjections on this point from a number of Labor members. It is clear from the huge taxes that have been imposed by the Govemment that AlUed Queensland Coalfields has now been forced to sell out because it does not have the capital resources to develop this mine. Mr Casey interjected. 2276 8 November 1988 Railway Proposal

Mr BEANLAND: It is as simple and as clear as that. Of course, if one goes back only a few short years, one finds that the Labor Party went on the rampage throughout this nation, attacking foreigners for injecting capital and buying up Australian and Queensland companies. Yet now we find from the interjections that are being made in this Chamber that Opposition members are quite happy about overseas companies coming to Australia and buying up Queensland companies. That is exactly what happens. Allied Queensland Coalfields sustained a net loss of $6.1 m in the year to the end of June, foUowing a $9.45 a tonne drop in the price of coal. Another $14m needs to be injected to fiind half of the planned expansion. Allied Queensland Coalfields was unable to meet that capital injection of $ 14m and was forced to sell its coal mine. That is not something that has suddenly arisen; it has occured over some time. A number of Queensland companies find themselves in a similar situation and are stmggling. The Australian Financial Review of 23 May this year published a number of letters on that very matter. I shall read to honourable members parts of a letter that again highlights the concem being expressed by coal companies. The letter states— "Australia is losing valuable new coal-mine developments to other countries because of high taxes and charges, particularly in Queensland, according to a senior coal company executive, Mr Ian Salway." Mr Ian Salway is the general manager of Allied Queensland Coalfields Ltd. The article in the Australian Financial Review states— "The general manager of Allied Queensland Coalfields Ltd says in a letter to the Australian Mining Industry Council that a number of companies have already embarked on new developments in places like Indonesia.

A central Queensland coal deposit, Baralaba, paid rail freight charges of $15.61 a tonne in trial shipments, giving the Queensland Govemment a profit of about $10 a tonne." It went on to state that the company lost money on the shipment and the project, which has one of the best quality semi-anthracite coals, increasingly used in sophisticated steel- making processes in the world, and which has been shelved indefinitely because of the high raU freights. Further, in a letter dealing with his comments at the Australian Coal Conference about rail freights, Mr Salway stated— ". . . makes the most important point with which I agree completely which is that unless taxation of the coal industry currently being levied by way of rail freight is reduced then new mines will not be developed in Australia, and that companies will take their money and expertise elsewhere to more attractive environments." That is exactly what is happening with Queensland coal mines. Queensland coal-miners are being forced to sell Queensland coal mines to overseas interests. This matter was highlighted as far back as 1986 by Allied Queensland Coalfields Ltd in its annual report, which stated on page 6— "In order to implement any scheme which results in increased exports from Aberdare or elsewhere in the Ipswich area, it is necessary to either obtain realistic rail freights for the increased production or to employ an altemative system of transport such as barging. Continued efforts have been made by Aberdare and other exporters, through the auspices of the West Moreton Exporters' Association, to persuade the Govemment to change its views towards rail transportation costs. The present policy, if continued, will effectively preclude exports above the 1.3 million level from the whole of the West Moreton district." Those statements have proved to be correct. The entire Ebenezer coal mine has been sold to Japanese interests. In fact, MIM Holdings has been faced with a very similar situation in relation to its Newlands mine. Railway Proposal 8 November 1988 2277

The company recently divested itself of 25 per cent of that mine with an option for another 25 per cent to an Italian firm known as AGIP, which is the coal arm of ENI, an Italian coal company. AGIP is another large overseas coal concem. Because MIM faces huge Govemment charges—particularly rail freight charges—it feels that it cannot raise the capital costs that are involved. The Newlands coal mine was previously 100 per cent owned by MIM Holdings. Although the Govemment is receiving a large amount from coal rail freight charges, that money is being used to subsidise railway services and operations. None of that revenue is being used to fiind police, education, health or roads. It goes straight into the pot and subsidises the Govemment railway system. Although honourable members might be happy with that system and the Queensland Government might want it, surely that revenue should go to the Govemment by way of royalties. If the Govemment is intent on charging high rail freights, they should go to the Govemment by way of royalties. In that way the Govemment could consider whether it wants to spend that revenue on police or pour that money into railway subsidies. A large proportion of the State's revenue goes straight into the railways' coffers. As to the royalties—for the 1988-89 year it is estimated that $192m wUl be received, during 1987-88 $196m was received in royalties, and in 1986-87 the figure was $176m. However, over and above the normal freight charges, the sum of $400m will go to the railways as a super tax. According to the Govemment's report from the Queensland Mines Department, another $50m will go to port authorities, which is a windfall profit. Because of Govemment charges, MIM Holdings has been forced to sell some of its shares in the Newlands mine. For some time that company indicated quite clearly that, unless the Govemment was prepared to consider its rail freight charges, the company would find itself in this situation, which other companies are facing. If the Govemment and the Opposition want to make those decisions and go down that track, that is fine. But those decisions must be made and the people of this State must be told that the Govemment is heading in that direction. Hon. I. J. GIBBS (Albert—Minister for Transport) (12.03 a.m.), in reply: Mr HamiU spoke about foreign investment and claimed that contracts at Swanbank were not honoured. I believe that I was Minister for Mines during the early period of negotiations of those contracts. Very large compensation payments of many millions of dollars were made to those mining companies in lieu of continuing with their contracts. Because of the high coal costs at that time, that presented an advantage to the electricity industry in the long mn. It aUowed for a rationalisation of some of those unprofitable mines that probably should not have been operating. The proposed spur Une will lead to a new era in coal mines in that region and provide continuity of mining operations. In times of bad news, some good news has appeared on the horizon. I am pleased to see that, because for a long time I worked very hard to keep the Ipswich field as healthy as possible. I take on board the comments that were made by Mr Gately in relation to access. Having spoken to the Commissioner for Railways and the planning department, I know that a lot of consideration has been given to access. Honourable members should realise that a rail line deviation must affect some people to some degree. The honourable member for Curmmbin is the chairman of my transport committee. He spoke about overseas investment and the statements that had been made by Mr Hamill. I hark back to history. During the days when Les Thiess was starting up, he had to seek Japanese partners in order to get going. Because people said that it was risk capital and they did not want to have a bar of it, no-one in Australia wanted to put one dollar into coal-mining in Queensland at that time. The next stage was the Utah operations, which received a great deal of criticism. That company, which pioneered the second phase of coal-mining in Queensland, is totally owned by BHP, an AustraUan company. At the end of the day, someone pioneered 2278 8 November 1988 Railway Proposal and taught us technology. Australia's coal-mining technology is as good as it is anywhere else in the world. BHP completely controls Utah's operations, including those in America. Overseas investment in this country is very important and very welcome. The ALP in Canberra fully supports that view. Some of the statements that have been made by Federal Govemment members are very wise and do not reflect some of the thoughts that have been put forward tonight by honourable members. The Federal Govemment realised that overseas investment is important. When Mr Keating first became Treasurer he went like a bull at a gate and stopped a Japanese investor who wished to build a high-rise building on the coast. After he had done the damage, Mr Keating crawled in reverse at 100 miles an hour back down the tunnel. He had to travel to America, Japan and elsewhere to tell investors that they were very welcome in Australia and that he was sorry for what he had done. Mr Keating came in with a great flurry, his feathers feU out and he had to grow them all over again. He leamt the hard way, but I guess he leamt, which is the important thing. Mr Gately spoke about long-term jobs and the expansion of Cook colliery at Blair Athol, Goonyella and many other areas. The expansion is quite amazing. Queensland and New South Wales have become the biggest coal-exporters in the world. From a standing start approximately 20 to 25 years ago, that is certainly an achievement. The member for Sherwood, Mr Innes, spoke about these modem open-cut mines which at this stage are exporting 2.2 million tonnes of coal per annum. He said a great deal about Queensland Allied Coalfields. Mr Beanland suggested we should wonder what is wrong with Govemment charges when Queensland Allied Coalfields sold out for very big money to Idemitsu. I do not have available the figures in order to check them, but if the honourable member's statements are taken as being correct, 49 per cent of Queensland Allied Coalfields interest in that particular mine was sold for $ 15.3m. I guess it could be said that if the charges were exorbitant to the extent that the company would be unprofitable, in that case no-one would buy it. Yet the company walked away with what I would call a huge profit from something it has not spent a lot of money on. As Minister for Mines, for many years I dealt with Queensland Allied Coalfields. I know that that company has had an advantage with the Ipswich field. One would wonder about the realities of some of the statements from the Liberal Party about that particular company in relation to this particular mine as well as its other activities. When talking about rail freights, the Liberal Party could have perhaps picked another group to be a better subject for discussion than the one that it chose this time. Mention was also made of work practices. It is great to see that the back of restrictive work practices has been broken. In the long mn, that will be the greatest contributing factor to increased profits. The work-force in the Rosewood area will be stabilised, and when this mine under discussion begins operations, that work-force will perhaps increase. It is rather interesting also to note that during this period of very high charges and low coal prices, which have improved of late, which is great news for Australia and Queensland especially, Utah was bought out totally by BHP for an enormous amount of money. It was one of the biggest take-overs and exchanges of money that ever took place in Australia. That occurred in the face of what were caUed bad times. Only just recently Shell bought CSR, which was another very, very big purchase at a time when things were tough. There are now two new big players in the field who are doing things very successfiiUy and who are expanding. The honourable member for Sherwood also spoke about there being no more investment in Queensland and said that everyone is investing in Indonesia. The honourable member knows very little about that. Whoever fed him those facts had it all out of balance. Queensland sells a considerable amount of coal to Indonesia. For years Indonesia has undertaken small joint ventures with people from aU over the world. The world is a big place. The Govemment has to operate on a global basis. It is great to see Australian companies, as well as the Americans and everyone else, receiving their slice of the action from Indonesia. I do not think that the honourable member should be terribly parochial and say that Indonesia should not open up coal mines. In many cases, Indonesia's coal Railway Proposal 8 November 1988 2279 is different from that of AustraUa. Some of it is good, some of it is bad. Queensland exports a considerable amount of coal to Indonesia, and it wiU continue to do so. Indonesia exports gas to Japan. Some honourable members, especially those in the Liberal Party, ought to be a bit more global in their thinking than they are at present. It must also be remembered that Liberal Party members seem to highhght Govemment charges and rail freights. I will hark back to recent history when the then Premier of Queensland, Sir Joh, and Sir Gordon Chalk, as the Liberal Treasurer of the day, pioneered raU freight rates in the coal industry. That system of raU freight rates was continued by Sir WiUiam Knox, who was the next Liberal Treasurer of Queensland in coaUtion. Prior to that time, Sh William Knox was the Minister for Transport who aided and abetted the setting-up of a rail freight rate system. Next foUowed Sir Llew Edwards as Treasurer, before he was axed by his colleagues. He carried on with that system. All who were responsible for that system did their jobs well, and that includes those who were members of the Liberal Party. That is recorded in history. When I was Minister for Mines, I put a proposition to the Premier and Treasurer of the day. Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen, and he was the first person who gave considerable cuts in rail freights to the mining industry as a whole. Mines that were producing coal worth more than a specified amount received a considerable cut in raU freights. The Utah mines were mostly in their early stages of development and did not quaUfy for the reduction at that stage. Since then, freight charges have been contained. They have not escalated as fast as they normally would have done. Credit ought to be given to the National Party Govemment in its own right because it was able to break the tough arrangement that Liberal Treasurers had set in concrete. I am pleased that I played a part in breaking that stranglehold. However, rail freights have to be monitored throughout the life of coal-mining operations. I would ask Opposition members not to forget the history attached to this matter. People in glass houses should not throw stones. The honourable member for Salisbury, Mr Ardill, mentioned the rail Une spur and spoke directly to the subject-matter of the debate. The matter of access raised by the honourable member for Ipswich, Mr Hamill, will be looked into. As much consideration as possible will be given to the matters that he raised, bearing in mind all the circumstances. The line will carry all the tonnages of which the department is aware at present. Certainly, the present tonnage would not be worth any fiirther investment, because 2.2 million tonnes of coal is not a great tonnage when the overaU costs associated with trains and the distance of track are taken into account. The member for Toowong, Mr Beanland, mentioned the sum of $9.2m that wiU be paid and once again referred to Queensland Allied Coalfields Ltd. In the words of the honourable member, 49 per cent of the coal-field wiU be sold to Idemitsu for $ 15.3m, which is not a bad deal for an authority to prospect and a lease that cost nothing. Of course, the company would have spent money on exploration and proving the mine up, but the costs would not amount to very many millions of dollars and would not amount to much in terms of holding charges. However, if Queensland Allied Coalfields sold 49 per cent of its interests for $15.3m and then sold its remaining interests, on the figures suppUed by the honourable member, what was received for 49 per cent of its interests could be doubled, which would result in a sale worth approximately $30.6m. Mines in that area have the great advantage of being situated close to a port. Although one could say that the raU freight per tonne, per kUometre is fafrly high, these mines enjoy a considerable advantage based on a comparison between costs paid by the companies to which I have referred and costs paid by other mining corporations. Moreover, the coal is loaded quite cheaply, and I remind honourable members that the coal-loader is privately owned. The port charges were contained at a low figure and the charges for the coal-loader were also maintained at a low rate through negotiations undertaken by this Govemment. Overall, this Govemment has played a fairly important role in trying to stabUise mining operations, but it will continue to monitor charges. I do not think that Queensland 2280 8 November 1988 Adjoumment

AlUed Coalfields was forced to seU. It was a decision made solely by the company. Honourable members should remember that that company has extensive coal interests throughout the State and is a fairly efficient company, although it has not yet entered the reaUy big league of coal-mining operations. During the period of the company's operations, I personally did a great deal to assist the company in negotiations on Baralaba and on other mines. I formed a very satisfactory relationship with the company and was rather surprised when the company sold out. If honourable members were to travel the world, they would not find a more attractive place for coal-mining than Australia, particularly in areas of New South Wales or Queensland. Coal sales are a long-term project that entail periods of fluctuating prices. The coal-mining industry can be compared to the other primary industries sector— agricultural industries—which also go through periods of thick and thin. Primary producers may enjoy a good season which is followed by a couple of bad seasons, and that is similarly the case with prices obtained for coal on international markets. The growing of produce, however, is fraught with difficulties associated with bad seasons, but at least mining companies know that their product cannot deteriorate, although it may be subject to fluctuations in price. If agricultural production were compared with coal-mining, it would indicate, perhaps, that those involved in the mining industry are not too badly off. As part of a responsible Govemment, I recognise that costs have to be monitored at all times. I have no doubt that the mine purchased by Idemitsu will be successfiil because that company comprises superb operators. The company has interests in many parts of Australia and exerts a tremendous influence over the coal industry in Japan. The company originated the process of fuelling its refineries by buming coal instead of using oil, which is something no other company in the world has ever achieved. The company should be congratulated for its innovative practices. I look forward to the commencement of operations of the mines to which I have referred. I look forward also to the successful completion of the rail line spur, and I hope that it will have a tremendously beneficial impact on the economy of the Ipswich, Rosewood and Moreton areas. I thank all members for their contributions to the debate and support for the proposal. Motion agreed to. Resolution reported and agreed to.

ADJOURNMENT Hon. I. J. GIBBS (Albert—Minister for Transport) (12.23 a.m.): I move— "That the House do now adjourn." Politicisation of Public Service Mr CASEY (Mackay) (12.23 a.m.): In recent days there have been announcements from public service unions and various other people criticising the politicisation of the public service in Queensland. Everyone here—particularly as honourable members have themselves adopted the estabUshment of the Parliamentary Service Commission—recognises the need for an independent public service. The Parliament of Queensland has an independent staff, and despite the political affiliations of various members, each and every member receives support and assistance in exactly the same manner from all members of staff at Parliament House. That is the way it should be. I wish to draw honourable members' attention to the most recent and blatant effort on the part of this National Party Govemment in Queensland to politicise the public service in this State. Recently in the Queensland Government Gazette there were advertisements for certain positions. As is always the case, positions become vacant Adjoumment 8 November 1988 2281 within the public service and are advertised for a period of time. That is so particularly in relation to classified positions. Under the old system of the Public Service Board, applications were made through the board to the various departments and those positions were filled. Since the Public Service Board was abolished last year, the procedure has been that applications have gone to the relevant department and each department has looked after its own problem. Currently there are advertisements in the Queensland Government Gazette for and on behalf of the Department of Primary Industries. Five major positions are being advertised in the gazette and the first position in the Minister's office is that of press secretary to the Honourable the Minister for Primary Industries. Mr Scott: Contract employment? Mr CASEY: I will come to contract employment in a moment. Firstly, I accept that whoever is on the private staff of the Minister, whether he or she be a press secretary, private secretary, executive stenographer or whoever, has to work and get on with the Minister. In addition, four jobs that relate to the fiiture top hierarchy of the Department of Primary Industries are advertised in the Queensland Government Gazette as follows— "Applications in relation to these positions should be forwarded direct to the Minister for Primary Industries." No doubt these are contract positions, as Mr Scott has just mentioned, because that is the way this Govemment is heading. These positions are Deputy Director-General of the Department of Primary Industries; executive director of technical services, which is a very highly paid 1-24 classification; executive director of corporate services, which is a highly paid 1-24 classification; and director of the division of land utilisation, which is a 1-21 position and again a very high position. Because of the set-up of that department, the people who fill these positions will be the future hierarchy of the department. A few months ago the Minister pushed his then Director-General, Dr Alexander, aside into another job and it is well known throughout the department that the Minister did not get on with Dr Alexander. The man who has been acting Director-General for some time, Mr Hegarty, has been confirmed in the position, but everyone knows that he has only a short time left in the public service before he is due for retirement. These applications to be made straight to the Minister mean that he is hand-picking and politicising those positions. Certainly the Govemment might want contracts to be drawn up for these positions, but surely the departmental head would handle job applications in the normal way. That is not the case and the final decision will rest with the Minister. Irrespective of what else happens, it will always be accepted in the department that these are political appointments. That is the way this Govemment is heading. It is politicising the public service and this is the first time in history that positions of this kind have been advertised in such a way with the applications to be made direct to the Minister. This wiU be a tragedy for the State of Queensland. If a person has the political support of the Minister, he or she will get the job. That is what will happen in primary industries, which are the most important industries in this State. The politicising of the public service has to stop and there must be an independent public service. Time expired. Greenhouse Effect Mr GILMORE (Tablelands) (12.29 a.m.): In recent times several matters relating to the environment have become the concem of many people not only in Australia but also throughout the world. A series of conferences have been held on the greenhouse effect and these have brought the problem of the greenhouse effect to the attention of a vast number of people. This matter will be of concem for future generations and will have a serious effect on Australia's coastal wetlands through rising sea levels and other

81405—78 2282 8 November 1988 Adjoumment problems. There are a multitude of thoughts on the problem, but current philosophy is that there will be a warming of the world's climate and rising sea levels. The greenhouse effect has been caused by the buming of fossil fuels, both coal and oil, by the production of methane from agriculture and by propellants that are used in various household and other sprays. Mr Hamill interjected. Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The House will have one speaker at a time. Mr GILMORE: Another matter of some concem is the reduction in the size of the wetland areas around the world and the erosion of soil, particularly in agricultural areas. All levels of govemment, that is local. State and Federal, have to leam to make some very difficult decisions, particularly in the very near fiiture. Local govemment has to concem itself with noise levels, building heights—particularly along esplanades—and town-planning matters. I wish to refer to the problems surrounding A. J. Bush and Sons. Heavy and noxious industry has been zoned within this State for many, many years; however, local govemment has consistently allowed for the development of housing estates around areas zoned for heavy and noxious industry. It is unfair and quite unrealistic for local govemment to continue with this useless and quite uneducated exercise. The State Govemment has to consider the realities of power generation, coal-mining and other mining industries, the reduction in the size of the wetlands, as I said a moment ago, animal habitats and soU preservation. I will deal first with coal-mining, which has affected the environment and presented the world with the greenhouse effect. Govern­ ments that have to make decisions about these things will have to concem themselves with the industrial reality of the loss of jobs, particularly in the coal-mining industry, and the disabilities that will be created in society with the inability to economically generate power. Mr Hamill interjected, Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I wam the member for Ipswich under Standing Order 123A. Mr Hamill: I beg your pardon? Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I have wamed the honourable member for Ipswich under Standing Order 123A. That is his second waming. Mr GILMORE: The Federal Govemment will have to concern itself seriously with the production and utilisation of uranium or atomic energy for the generation of power to allow a continuation of the life-style to which we have become accustomed. These are very difficult decisions that have to be taken. I believe Govemments will have to make them very quickly. They will not be easy decisions. The social and industrial responses will be difficult to handle. I exhort this Govemment to take those decisions as quickly as possible.

Toowoomba General Hospital Mr SHERLOCK (Ashgrove) (12.34 a.m.): I draw the attention of the House to the Minister for Health's answer to the member for Toowoomba South this moming on the upgrading of the Toowoomba General Hospital. The answer demonstrates the Govemment's sensitivity to the electoral damage that will be caused by the lack of attention to the Toowoomba General Hospital and similar places. If the 20 per cent swing against the National Party in the Groom by-election is translated to a State election, that puts in question three of the four DarUng Downs seats. The Govemment is rightly sensitive to the issue of the psychiatric ward at the Toowoomba General Hospital. It is not a new problem. When Mr Austin was Minister for Health, he attempted to deal with it, and Mr Ahem was sensitive to the issue but he could not get the money. Adjoumment 8 November 1988 2283

We now know that Mrs Harvey has not talked to the local community and has not met with the AMA. Of course, that is not new. However, the issue is poUtically sensitive and the Premier is bringing out the pork-barrel early. I draw the attention of the House to part of the Minister's answer. She said— "One of the criteria used in assessing the submissions from such (tenderers) will be each firm's ability to carry out a project within budget and within a fairly tight time-frame." One could be fairly cynical and say that there will be some advanced building before the 1989 election. But the Minister cannot ignore the fact that the operational budget for the Toowoomba General Hospital is short-sheeted. From the Health Department's own figures, the cost per bed per day in Toowoomba is $211; the cost in other major non-metropoUtan hospitals is $275. The fact is that local doctors have propped up the system; they have kept the ship afloat. That they have done that with dedication is commendable. The Toowoomba General Hospital badly needs a development plan with input from local knowledge. The hospital system needs a good dose of management from the Govemment. Instead there has been only mismanagement. I might add that the Minister has a curious set of priorities. She asked for $100,000 to upgrade her office; that was tumed dowTi. She asked for a new ministerial car; that was tumed down. She directed Govemment architects to supply $ 10,000-worth of tropical plants for the Health Department building. I understand that request was reduced to $2,000-worth of plastic plants. She disbanded the very fine Division of Health Promotion and, instead, put together a $100,000 package to support the promotion of the Minister with a marketing officer. That is a curious set of priorities indeed. In the meantime the Queensland health system has been neglected. The Nambour Hospital is short of nurses and there is a shortage of nurses in many other places in the State, which we have come to accept. The very fine new hospital at Hervey Bay was opened just prior to the 1986 election, but the labour ward and the operating theatre are stUl lying unused because of a lack of staff. All members recaU that the local needs for a hospital at the Gold Coast were ignored until the South Coast by-election, when the pork-barrel was brought out again. Instead of management the Government has made ad hoc decisions. There has been mismanagement by crisis and now a bandaid—albeit a large bandaid—has been applied to the psychiatric ward at the Toowoomba General Hospital, but other festering sores wiU break out in other parts of the health system. Last week, in the press, the Minister said that to give that extra $lm of capital funds to Toowoomba she would have to take it off the capital budget somewhere else. That is lack of planning. The BailUe Henderson Hospital's kitchen—that is capable of producing more meals per day than the Wilsonton Hotel—has been upgraded. That point will not escape honourable members. That hospital has a bakery that has never baked a loaf of bread, nor wiU it. At the Gympie Hospital, X-rays cannot be taken and ambulances need to take crash victims and other people who need X-rays to Nambour and so on. Throughout the State, nurses' quarters are standing empty. We see hospital boards that need to be more accountable, more autonomous, more businessUke, depoUticised and more entrepreneurial. Management consultants tell us that hospitals can be used as a model. Here I am talking about management of the hospital system in Queensland. I am talking about big business—a budget of $1.3 billion that will double in a decade; a budget in the hands of an amateur Minister. Those of us who are in business and those of us who see decisions such as the ones that I have mentioned tonight as examples would be pretty soon out of business if we coped in that way. Time expired. 2284 8 November 1988 Adjoumment

Supported Accommodation Program Ms WARNER (South Brisbane) (12.39 a.m.): I noted with some interest that the member for Mackay raised the question of the politicisation of the institutions of this State. I rise on a similar issue. The Supported Accommodation Program is jointly funded by the Commonwealth and State Govemments. It is divided into three main areas: general, youth and women's accommodation programs. The SAP scheme has a State advisory committee which advises the Minister on the viability and standards of various schemes and on how the programs are fimctioning generally. Until recently, the various groups funded under the scheme have elected their representatives to the SAP committee and have advised the Minister of their choice, and that person has been appointed. This year, the groups have carried on with the normal practice of electing their representatives, but the Minister has refused to appoint them. John Eastgate was elected from Maryborough from the GSAP sector; Eileen Miller was nominated from Bundaberg in the WSAP sector; and Phil Carney was nominated from YSAP. The Minister has not officially notified the groups of the change of policy, but people in the sector have been advised by phone that in future the Minister requires three names from which he can choose who the representatives will be. The Minister has not put that information in writing and so far no reasons have been given for the change. Needless to say, some concem has been expressed in the welfare sector about the Minister's motives in requiring the three names; a practice reminiscent of Bjelke- Petersen's demand of three names for the Senate vacancy in 1975, thereby denying the representative role of the person appointed. Honourable members may recall that we had a constitutional change over that furore. The people in the welfare area had a meeting two weeks ago about this issue and have resolved that they want to be able to have the confidence in their own representatives who will be accountable to them. The system has worked well in the past and the Minister has never expressed any reservations about its operation. So why the change? The only possible reason that we can surmise is that the Minister wishes to vet the people of that committee, thereby introducing a very unwelcome political bias into the area. The whole problem seemed to emerge when John Eastgate was elected from the GSAP area in Maryborough. Apparently Mr Eastgate has been doing his job thoroughly and making public the shortcomings of the Govemment's housing policy. For that reason he has earned the wrath of Mr Alison, the member for Maryborough. Subsequently, when his name was put forward by his group as a representative on the SAP advisory committee, the Minister asked for a panel of three names from which he could choose, to avoid appointing the properly elected representative of the area. This smacks of political intervention. The policy has been extended to the other respresentatives who have been elected, namely Mr Phil Camey from YSAP and Mrs Eileen Miller from Bundaberg, just to cover up the original political motivation for refusing to appoint John Eastgate. The Minister has completely misread this situation. He has needlessly heaped ill- will upon himself Welfare workers are justifiably concemed about the politicisation of the SAP scheme, so that it, like so many other institutions, becomes merely a political pork-barrelling tool of the National Party rather than a scheme which is aimed solely at the objective needs of the homeless in this State. Needless to say, this scheme will have a very short shelf life, because next year new guide-lines are emerging from the Federal area for the SAP scheme. The Minister is remiss in incurring the wrath of the groups for one year's operation. Next year, the Commonwealth guide-Unes wiU provide that the committee will function as a ministerial advisory committee in each State, advising Commonwealth and State Ministers on State plans, accountability measures, future standards and performance Adjoumment 8 November 1988 2285 indicators. The committee will comprise members drawn from the service-providers and other Govemment parties forming the body of the committee. The Minister was advised by the officers within his department who saw the dangers in what he was attempting to do; but he has been very stubbom on this and has not listened to the advice that he has been given. When he was asked if the officers should write to the welfare groups informing them of the change, the Minister said, "No, just phone them." Time expired.

Darling Downs-Moreton Rabbit Board Mr LINGARD (Fassifem) (12.44 a.m.): During the debate on the Estimates of the Land Management portfolio, one aspect which was not discussed was the report of the Darling Downs-Moreton Rabbit Board. Mr Casey: You're the bunny. Mr LINGARD: It is well known that the member got through the fence and that every time pressure is put on him he mns away faster than a rabbit on a promise. As the electorate of Fassifem is one which benefits from the great work of the rabbit board, I would like to discuss a few aspects of the report. The chairman of the board is Mr Ray Drynan, and I know that he is extremely proud of the work which the board has completed. One of the great achievements of the board is the rabbit-proof fence. It would amaze members if they realised how far that rabbit-proof fence stretches. It commences at the westem end of the Lamington Plateau, foUows the Queensland/New South Wales border along the McPherson Range to Wilson's Peak and thence is situated along the border on the watershed of the Great Dividing Range to Cottonvale. At this point it leaves the border and follows the Herries Range to where it crosses the Condamine River, 7 kilometres south of the township of Brigalow. The fence crosses the Warrego Highway about 50 kilometres west of Dalby and mns onto the westem railway line at Brigalow. It then foUows the Une towards Chinchilla, detours to the south round the town area and along the line to Goombi, about 21 kilometres west of ChinchUla. Sections of the fence where it forms the boundary of GlengaUan and Rosenthal Shires and where it passes through Millmerran and Chinchilla Shires have been top- netted, making it a dingo-proof fence. That dingo-proof fence goes for a distance of approximately 161 kilometres. I repeat that the total distance of the rabbit fence is 531 kilometres. Eleven men patrol the fence and carry out general maintenance over that distance. The Darling Downs-Moreton Rabbit Board comprises six members. I pay tribute to them. I refer to Mr Drynan, Councillor Ezzy, Councillor Mitchell, Councillor Jamieson, Mr Mort and Mr Webster. The board is responsible for maintaining a field staff of 17 people; it is responsible for any new fencing; it is responsible for the maintenance of cottages in the area; and it is responsible for the total maintenance of the rabbit fence. Although members of the Labor Party might joke about it, it is interesting that this rabbit fence covers an area of 23 500 kilometres in south-east Queensland. One of the matters for which the board is responsible is the outbreak of rabbits around Beenleigh. Of course, as it is a sporting dog area, some people still illegally keep rabbits. Therefore it is the responsibility of the board to maintain a rabbit-free area. Rabbit-free areas around Chinchilla have been invaded by rabbits, and the work of eradicating them is still proceeding around Chinchilla. Of course, one of the important aspects Mr Casey interjected. Mr LINGARD: The honourable member could not be serious if he tried. 2286 8 November 1988 Adjoumment

One of the growing concems is the increasing time required to be spent on investigating reports of illegally kept rabbits. It is interesting to note that it is iUegal to keep rabbits in Queensland without express approval for specific purposes. Mr Casey: What gauge of wire-netting do they use? Mr LINGARD: It is a fantastic one that stops rabbits getting through. Most importantly, the Rural Lands Protection Board has carried out a study of the area. Some honourable members may realise that precepts from the rabbit board are imposed on local councils. These precepts are paid to the rabbit board, which maintains the rabbit fence using the money that is received. This year's report reveals a surplus of funds, which resulted from the sale of several cottages in the area and a rationaUsation of the procedures which the rabbit board follows. This accumulation is not a left-over of the precepts from local councils and obviously will be used in the general maintenance of that fence. There is no doubt that special work should be carried out on the gates at the Mount Lindesay Highway and Killamey. Although people might joke about it—and members of the Labor Party are partic­ ularly flippant in their attitude—the rabbit board has not been mentioned. I repeat that it has to be realised that this fence is 531 kilometres long and is maintained by a group of 11 men. Mr Casey: How high is it? Mr LINGARD: It stopped dingoes getting out. Therefore it is particularly important. I compUment the Darling Downs-Moreton Rabbit Board. Mr HAMILL: I want to talk about the discontinuation of the railmotor service to the Atherton Tableland Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member will state his point of order. Mr HAMILL: I want to talk about the discontinuation of the railmotor service to the Atherton Tableland. The Queensland Govemment has lost faith with the country people in that area Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member is not taking a point of order. There is no point of order. Mr HAMILL: I thought you called me to speak, Mr Acting Speaker. Mr ACTING SPEAKER: I have wamed the honourable member twice under Standing Order 123A. The honourable member will leave the Chamber. Whereupon the honourable member for Ipswich withdrew from the Chamber.

Heroin Addiction; Sand Erosion of Gold Coast Beaches Mr GATELY (Curmmbin) (12.49 a.m.): Is it not amazing that all the rabbits do mn? Look at them! I wish to speak about a very serious matter which I spoke about earlier today in the Matters of Public Interest debate. I refer to dmgs and the taking of heroin. Late this afternoon I had the opportunity of speaking with the parents of a 34-year-old person who was cremated yesterday in my electorate. Well might members in this Chamber stop to think. There is not a person in this nation today who can safely say that this sort of problem will not affect his family. It has reached the family of the Prime Minister of Australia. It has reached the famUy of the former Premier of New South Wales, Mr Unsworth, who lost a son. It has reached the family of the great Jack Gibson, the footballer, who lost a son. It is high time that every member of this Parliament' and Adjournment 8 November 1988 2287 members of all other Parliaments throughout this nation and the world took heed of the inherent dangers of dmgs and their effects on young people. It is a sad indictment when one considers that this young man was one of five out of a class of former students of Miami High School on the Gold Coast. It is not they who are the ones who should be criticised. It is the pushers of dmgs who should be sought out and put in a position in which they can never again do the same thing. It is sad indeed when one considers that the Federal Govemment is led by a Prime Minister whose own daughter was a taker of heroin, as stated in her own words, and who has even contemplated giving a dmg, namely heroin, as a free hand-out to heroin addicts. It will probably only sheet home to members of this House if it strikes their own children. I want them each to consider very carefiiUy the comments I am making. They are not easy to make. The giving of dmgs such as heroin to heroin addicts knowingly by anybody is clearly an indication of aiding and abetting in the commission of an offence. I do not care how the Federal Govemment Ukes to package it or to market it, if it wants to give heroin addicts free dmgs, the pubhc of AustraUa—the rate-payers and the tax-payers— are the ones who are responsible for paying the bill. But they are paying a bigger bUl because of the final result. As surely as the sun comes up tomorrow, fiirther deaths will be caused by the taking of heroin. I refer now to the blatant attack on the Queensland Govemment by Alderman Coomber, the alderman for Ward 9 and a member of the Gold Coast City Council. He has called on the Queensland Govemment to make as a matter of urgency a one-off $4m grant to fix up the beaches on the Gold Coast. He fiirther shows his inexperience and lack of financial knowledge when he says— "Last financial year direct spending by tourists on the Gold Coast amounted to $937 million—surely the Ahem Govemment could put some of that back into the Coast." For the edification of Alderman Coomber, I point out that if tourists spend $937m on the Gold Coast, that money went to people who provided either services or accommodation; it was not paid to the Queensland Govemment. He ought to at least have enough common sense to realise that that $937m did not go to the Queensland Govemment for it to spend. However, today I received a phone call from people in the electorate who severely criticised the Gold Coast City Council for a wanton waste of rate-payers' and tax-payers' money. They are the same people who bleat to this Govemment for subsidies for beach restoration, but they will not try the one thing that could well solve the problem of sand erosion or help to alleviate it, that is, the reduction in height and shortening in length of the two groynes at Kirra Point and at the Kirra Beach surf club. Time expired. Motion agreed to. The House adjoumed at 12.55 a.m. (Wednesday).